Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
Speaker 1: What help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode. You
Speaker 1: got a bunch of us back again. Third show for
Speaker 1: the day, Can't Stop, Won't Stop, something like that, And
Speaker 1: today I got a bunch of rejects with us and
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about occult and symbolism. That
Speaker 1: topic was brought to you by the Headless Giant, and
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Hells. I thought it was a
Speaker 1: great topic. But before we let Headless take this over,
Speaker 1: we will have the other rejects introduce themselves. And I
Speaker 1: got with me the occult reject mad scientist Lisa herself.
Speaker 1: What is going on?
Speaker 3: Three for three? We've done three episodes today. Yes, we
Speaker 3: have doing well and I'm very excited to be doing
Speaker 3: something with just the rejects kind of partial to that
Speaker 3: and just kind of thrown around, you know, our noggins
Speaker 3: on the hand symbolism. So thank you for inviting me on,
Speaker 3: Thank you, fellow rejects, and apologies for me interrupting you
Speaker 3: here in the future of this episode. And the only
Speaker 3: thing I'd like to plug is a cult Research Institute
Speaker 3: dot org and you can find me on Twitter on
Speaker 3: so lease Lisa.
Speaker 1: Awesome, thank you very much. Hey, we got my man
Speaker 1: jin Freda, Ninja Ninja whatever, friud of something else. I
Speaker 1: don't know, good subing.
Speaker 2: What's up? Nick, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2: I just want to echo what Lisa said. The Rejects
Speaker 2: episodes are my personal favorite as well, not that I
Speaker 2: don't obviously love a guest.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: That's My show is a lot about guests. So but
Speaker 2: I come on here really just talk to you guys.
Speaker 2: So for me, that's for me. So I just want
Speaker 2: to say so, I just released an episode with Toby
Speaker 2: Choppel Strange Angles, episode seventy two, so it's kind of
Speaker 2: an axel. We'll call it an episode for me, so
Speaker 2: a big deal. And obviously Nick made the connect for me,
Speaker 2: so thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Nick.
Speaker 2: Obviously owe that to you, mister ninety three. And yeah,
Speaker 2: so and then obviously we Nick and I and Matt
Speaker 2: Mara from The Gray Lodge came on and we did
Speaker 2: a Kabala episode just the other day on Binna and Dath,
Speaker 2: which was really cool and really good. I listened to
Speaker 2: it back and a lot of people really liked it,
Speaker 2: so it's a great job on that and and Solar
Speaker 2: co hosted. I should have said sorry Solar Exile, who
Speaker 2: was on this show to doctor with doctor Stephen Flowers.
Speaker 2: He co hosted the episode with Toby Chappel with me,
Speaker 2: So shout out to him one hundred percent because it's
Speaker 2: obviously he's co hosting with me on the episode. So yeah,
Speaker 2: if people want to follow me and check out those
Speaker 2: episodes Threshold Saints, at Threshold Saints IG and twitter x
Speaker 2: and then at will cong Reborn, w UK and g Reborn.
Speaker 2: That's my personal account and there's a lintry and Nicholas
Speaker 2: throws it in the show notes, so just check that out.
Speaker 2: And uh, Threshold Saints wherever you get your podcasts, Apple,
Speaker 2: Spotify and Speaker all that.
Speaker 1: So thank you guys, awesome, thank you. Eh we got tyrone.
Speaker 1: What is going on?
Speaker 2: Sir?
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 5: What's going on?
Speaker 2: Everybody?
Speaker 1: Hi?
Speaker 5: Everything that you can find on me is on my website,
Speaker 5: Rebirth at the word dot com. I'm glad to be
Speaker 5: able to participate in this discussion. And if you are
Speaker 5: interested in reading my book, Journey through the Origins of History,
Speaker 5: it was a bestseller on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Appreciating it of course, thank you, appreciate you, sir. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got Tim Constantine joining us. What is going on, sir?
Speaker 2: Hey good? How are you good?
Speaker 1: Good one?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've got a Sunday show over at Cult of Conspiracy.
Speaker 6: That show is called Conspiracy Garden and my main show.
Speaker 6: The best place to find me is excuse me sixth
Speaker 6: Sensory podcast on all the major platforms.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Again, of course, no, thank you. And we got my man,
Speaker 1: the Headless Giant. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 1: I appreciate this topic and everything. So let everybody know
Speaker 1: who you are and take it away.
Speaker 4: All right. You can find me on exit on YouTube
Speaker 4: at the Headless Giant. I can be reached by email
Speaker 4: for my Thursday night show. About your emails for our
Speaker 4: listening pleasure, So you can email me at the Headless
Speaker 4: Giant podcast at gmail dot com. And this Thursday we're
Speaker 4: going to be doing it again, so I hope to
Speaker 4: see your email there and we'll get on with that.
Speaker 4: Also tomorrow I've got the Trialogues with my boy Ethan
Speaker 4: and with Ricardo, so that's going to be an awesome time.
Speaker 4: We usually just come together and throw together a show
Speaker 4: and it seems to work a lot of people like it,
Speaker 4: so check it out. And today I wanted to get
Speaker 4: into hand symbol. So if you've been watching The Rejects
Speaker 4: for a while, you know that we try to do
Speaker 4: some sort of anchoring where we're taking meaning from the
Speaker 4: body and looking at the occult symbols that all match
Speaker 4: up here. And to me, the hand is like one
Speaker 4: of these ultimate symbols of magic and power and humanness really,
Speaker 4: you know, because our hands look way different from most
Speaker 4: of the stuff that we're surrounded by, even by monkey pause.
Speaker 4: I mean, these are very uniquely human in terms of
Speaker 4: our own way of perceiving it. So to start off with,
Speaker 4: I think that it's important to know that there's a
Speaker 4: fractaline level to the geometry in the hand. Right, So
Speaker 4: you've got five fingers, right, the pentagram is five points,
Speaker 4: and the pentagram can be infinitely scaled up or down
Speaker 4: based off of the golden ratio, and just so happens,
Speaker 4: you can find a lot of golden ratio in the
Speaker 4: joints around your hand. So this thing is like our
Speaker 4: connection to that greater spiral fractality that we see happening
Speaker 4: with a lot of these geometric shapes. So it's hands
Speaker 4: creating hands. Really, that's what humans are doing. This is
Speaker 4: how we interact with our environment. This is the idea
Speaker 4: of us being able to change our situation, us being
Speaker 4: able to build in a situation. These are all very
Speaker 4: important when it comes to magic. And so one of
Speaker 4: the hands that I like to think about a lot
Speaker 4: is the hand of Sebasios. This thing has got so
Speaker 4: many symbols packed into it, just absolutely amazing. You've got
Speaker 4: the cave where Zeus was nursed back to health. Down
Speaker 4: on the wrist, You've got it looks like a pan
Speaker 4: right there in the middle where the palm is. You've
Speaker 4: got a pine cone on the thumb. You've got a
Speaker 4: snake that wraps around the whole thing and then comes
Speaker 4: up between the two fingers. And you could tell the
Speaker 4: pose that it is in is in all the pictures
Speaker 4: of Jesus Christ as well as the saints, you know,
Speaker 4: pointing up towards Heaven, pointing down towards Hell. This mysterious
Speaker 4: figurine was most likely put on top of a pole
Speaker 4: so that everybody could see it. Right. This is like
Speaker 4: the idol's idol. It's got all of these different mythologies,
Speaker 4: it's all pressed together into one single figure, and this
Speaker 4: was the hand of Sebazios. Now Sebazios is an interesting
Speaker 4: god because it comes through this Thracian line. Sabazios was
Speaker 4: always depicted as a young sort of strapping man on
Speaker 4: a horse with a spear, and he was the son
Speaker 4: of either Zeus in Persephone, which was sort of a
Speaker 4: later interpretation, or Kyberlei through herself. Right, So Kyberlee is
Speaker 4: kind of like this virgin priestess, so he was either
Speaker 4: self born through Kyberlei, or he was kind of born
Speaker 4: through Zeus and Persephone, the god goddess of the underworld.
Speaker 4: And that union of Zeus and Persephone is pretty interesting too,
Speaker 4: because this really goes into Dionysus, right. So Dionysus's original
Speaker 4: form is this character called Zagrias, and Zagrius is a
Speaker 4: god that was supposed to be formed between either Zeus
Speaker 4: and Persephone or Hades in Persephony. And there's kind of
Speaker 4: a disagreement there. Some people say that he's from Olympus,
Speaker 4: some people say that he was born in the underworld.
Speaker 4: But this Zagrias character would then be ripped apart by
Speaker 4: the Titans, and this is one of the first retellings
Speaker 4: of how mankind came into existence, because what we're said
Speaker 4: to be is we're said to be gross material or
Speaker 4: Titan flesh with divine spark within us. So as the
Speaker 4: Titans consumed the body and bloe blood of this character Zagrias,
Speaker 4: it put the spirit into mankind, into this gross material
Speaker 4: flesh that's so familiar. Well, this idea of Zagrias moves on.
Speaker 4: After he's shoot up. His heart is then placed into
Speaker 4: the thigh of Zeus, and Zeus then bursts out with
Speaker 4: this new character called Dionysus. And this is the Dionysian cycle,
Speaker 4: in the first part of Dionysus' existence, and it said
Speaker 4: that this Dionysian character is like the son of God
Speaker 4: and the ultimate truth or the ultimate God of this world.
Speaker 4: And so there's a lot of crossover between these Thracian
Speaker 4: mysteries and Dionysus and Jesus for that matter. So as
Speaker 4: you see on that thumb, you can see the pine cone. Well,
Speaker 4: Dionysus carried a pine cone on his walking stick, and
Speaker 4: this is out in front of the Vatican today. You've
Speaker 4: got that massive pine cone still in existence, still sort
Speaker 4: of keeping that dian Ician feel to the Vatican, which
Speaker 4: is almost like a continuation of these Thracian mysteries through
Speaker 4: Kaibali and all the rest of it. They kind of
Speaker 4: kept this character, they kind of kept it alive. So
Speaker 4: this all comes through the hand symbol. Now, one of
Speaker 4: the things that I found interesting about this hand symbol
Speaker 4: as well is the idea in dactyls, and the idea
Speaker 4: in Dactyls were like these gods of sport, right, the
Speaker 4: Dactyls of Mount Ida in crete. Mount Ida is one
Speaker 4: of the holiest mountains for all of Greece, invented the
Speaker 4: art of working metals into usable shapes with fire. So
Speaker 4: this is one of the gods. This would be the
Speaker 4: let me see here, what's his name? It's not letting
Speaker 4: me screw it anyways. So Hiphestus is one of these
Speaker 4: idea in dactyls, right, and then the cory Bante's are
Speaker 4: also integrated with that too, and the Dactyli are like
Speaker 4: the five fingers of the gods. Heracles is also one
Speaker 4: of these five fingers and instigated the Olympic Games. So,
Speaker 4: as you know, in ancient Greece they love to have
Speaker 4: these naked Olympic sports, and all of that was actually
Speaker 4: in service to these id in dactyls. Right, these are
Speaker 4: like the highest competitive characters within their pantheon. So anytime
Speaker 4: they would win a battle, they'd be like, all right,
Speaker 4: everybody strip naked, we're having the Olympics, we're having games, right,
Speaker 4: Because this was sort of in service to their gods.
Speaker 4: As they were expending their energy and showing who is
Speaker 4: the best out of everybody gathered, they were also establishing
Speaker 4: a pecking order that was sort of a grand to
Speaker 4: them by the gods. So their hyper competitiveness on the
Speaker 4: sport field also translated into hyper competitiveness on the battlefield.
Speaker 4: So all of these sports have to do with the
Speaker 4: will of the gods as it's coming through them, and
Speaker 4: you can see over and over again these sports sort
Speaker 4: of take the attention of the population almost as if
Speaker 4: it's a religious ritual, and you find all the religious
Speaker 4: symbolism within sport all having to do with, you know,
Speaker 4: who wins and who loses in these symbolic fights, you know,
Speaker 4: proving who's the top of the heap. And if you
Speaker 4: think about the hands and what they're capable of producing
Speaker 4: and how related it is to God in this sense,
Speaker 4: you can kind of see why there's kind of a
Speaker 4: reverence paid at these different sporting events. How there's kind
Speaker 4: of an alternate identity created, and the entertainment of it
Speaker 4: almost brands different areas or parts of the country and
Speaker 4: sort of gives them a new meaning as well. I mean,
Speaker 4: look at the mascots of these different sporting teams. You know,
Speaker 4: it changes the colors of different regions, and these colors
Speaker 4: have a huge impact on the psychology of the people
Speaker 4: experience in that kind of situation. So you can almost
Speaker 4: use these as a magico religious symbol to influence the
Speaker 4: population through sport. And that's my presentation on the hand symbolism,
Speaker 4: at least coming through Greece.
Speaker 2: I love the.
Speaker 6: Pine combe element to this, and I might be jumping
Speaker 6: ahead here, but I'm always down and learn more about
Speaker 6: why the ancients were depicted holding the pine cone. But
Speaker 6: I'll say this that you brought up Persephone, it does
Speaker 6: remind me of her in the sense that she was
Speaker 6: often depicted holding a pomegranate, which is like a symbol
Speaker 6: for life, death, rebirth, and divinity.
Speaker 1: I wrote a book using the pomegranates in the name,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it is used for like a cult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the orchard of pomegranates.
Speaker 6: Sorry, and the whole then I'll cap it off with this.
Speaker 6: The whole rebirth divinity thing I find super interesting because
Speaker 6: I think a lot of these kings, these old ancient
Speaker 6: kings like Oshrabono Paul or Nebu Kenezer even were trying
Speaker 6: to i'l chemically transmute and achieve some sort of a
Speaker 6: rebirth that would give way to divinity. They were trying
Speaker 6: to deify, it seems.
Speaker 2: But it all goes back to symbolism.
Speaker 4: Tim. Think about where all the apostle Paul set his
Speaker 4: letters up in Turkey, right, Those are all the Thracian homelands, right,
Speaker 4: So those are the same kinds of crossover there with
Speaker 4: his dying and resurrecting Savior, and that's where he's sending
Speaker 4: his letters to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I could kind of expand upon the thumb.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you a specifically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nick and I have had this discussion which is
Speaker 3: interesting because you've said something about, you know, your rituals
Speaker 3: as well, not yours specifically, but the rituals that you've participated.
Speaker 3: So there is engin please this kind of I know
Speaker 3: you have a little bit of knowledge on this too,
Speaker 3: in terms of like I believe the body lay lines
Speaker 3: or reflexology. They believe that the thumb is connected to
Speaker 3: the pineal gland. Well, okay, so the concept is that
Speaker 3: there are specific points on the hands and feet the
Speaker 3: corresponds with the organs of the body. And the way
Speaker 3: that it was told to me whenever I was doing
Speaker 3: acupuncture was that when you were developing in the fetus,
Speaker 3: you're developing in a fetal position. So the cells that
Speaker 3: are used to form the hands or the back of
Speaker 3: the hand or whatever is closely related to like your
Speaker 3: chest area, right, because you kind of develop like this,
Speaker 3: so it's almost aligned or they can feel each other
Speaker 3: because they almost come from the same area of whenever
Speaker 3: during fetal development. Please gen correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3: But so with that being and with that in mind,
Speaker 3: I believe there is I think it's reflexology, and I
Speaker 3: want to say that it's acupunctured too. But they believe
Speaker 3: that there is points on the tip of the thumb
Speaker 3: that correspond to the pineal gland, and that if you
Speaker 3: massage the tip of the thumb, it's believed to stimulate
Speaker 3: the pineal gland not only in you know, awakening or awareness,
Speaker 3: but also encourage melatonin production. So I think when you
Speaker 3: go like to these alternative medicine type institutions, that they
Speaker 3: do that in order to help like with improving sleep
Speaker 3: or promote relaxation and stuff like that. So I do
Speaker 3: know that there is that.
Speaker 2: No, that was great, Lisa. I. So I'll answer in
Speaker 2: two ways. One is a ton tric way, but it
Speaker 2: ties in with the yoga way. So the later Yogi's
Speaker 2: weren't contric but they kind of had an idea of
Speaker 2: what that was, like magic really, and so they were
Speaker 2: writing there like knees on half of the yoga their sutras,
Speaker 2: and so they kind of reformulated because they didn't have
Speaker 2: all the clues or the keys maybe you could say,
Speaker 2: so they had to sort of reformulate their broken knowledge
Speaker 2: of the ton tric ideas. So there's different ways that
Speaker 2: you can actually assign in TNTRA. For each finger is
Speaker 2: actually related to an element, and there are obviously five
Speaker 2: elements in TNTRA. The thumb is often associated with akasha
Speaker 2: or the mind, but it can also be like the
Speaker 2: akashak records obviously, so something like what you're saying, stimulating
Speaker 2: the memory, simulating the mind, simulating the cameo viae have
Speaker 2: like spiritual experiences. So what mudras really are, like this
Speaker 2: is really great Headless, thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2: Is that mudras really are about the connections between the fingers.
Speaker 2: You're actually doing a very subtle tontric with this called
Speaker 2: tontric dancing actually, and you're subtly touching the fingers to
Speaker 2: each other in the specific movements. But what you're actually
Speaker 2: doing is you're doing elemental invocations like very yadhe vavee. Actually,
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's basically what it is. And that's even
Speaker 2: how you would do a ritual sodna, is that you
Speaker 2: would change your mudras depending on the specific timing or
Speaker 2: grammar within that specific sodna. So you would be activating
Speaker 2: the different elemental configurations you could even say, and you'd
Speaker 2: always do air last. So that's interesting because sometimes earth
Speaker 2: is given to the pinky and sometimes air is given
Speaker 2: to the pinky. But it does actually matter. So what
Speaker 2: I'm saying is the way you formulate it actually changes.
Speaker 2: So if someone does it one way, it's not going
Speaker 2: to work for someone else who thinks of it in
Speaker 2: a totally different way in another way, because it really
Speaker 2: matters your.
Speaker 4: Starting point, Jane, I got one for you. So you
Speaker 4: know who else was a Thracian? You got it Pythagoras
Speaker 4: because you keep all the numbers you need right here.
Speaker 1: Oh you can use your feet. Yeah, he what are
Speaker 1: you saying? For sure?
Speaker 4: Pathagoras was so huge on that. I mean, you've got
Speaker 4: the idea of number all embodied inside of these hands,
Speaker 4: you know, as as your very first starting point within
Speaker 4: the whole world of numbers. And you've got the perfect
Speaker 4: symbol for base ten, you know, right there both sides
Speaker 4: of your body.
Speaker 5: Ten and Mason re means perfection, or at least one
Speaker 5: of them. One of the theories or ideas for number ten.
Speaker 2: I think is Zero's a very profound concept. I'm sure
Speaker 2: Lisa has lots of thoughts on this, but I find
Speaker 2: I find zero to be a very profound concept, and
Speaker 2: I actually think it was a very innovative, magical idea.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people like, yeah, I just
Speaker 2: did an episode on the value of number nine with
Speaker 2: someone who's like, you know, in the order of chrap,
Speaker 2: so it's but for me, I'm just saying, for me,
Speaker 2: I prefer a base ten. I think that there's something
Speaker 2: more interesting and like more. It seems to be it
Speaker 2: seems to be more progressive. I'm not using that word politically,
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying it's like forward thinking magic. It's
Speaker 2: not backwards looking. This is my perception. But maybe that's wrong.
Speaker 4: But well, it could have to do with how they're associated, right,
Speaker 4: So the base sixes and all the rest of these
Speaker 4: other systems might have other focuses that they put into
Speaker 4: their numbering system as part of a body heuristic. You know, yes,
Speaker 4: that's a possibility.
Speaker 6: Speaking about the numbers here, you know, the bottom of
Speaker 6: a pine, at least some of the ones I've seen,
Speaker 6: has a Fibonacci sequence. So if you think about it,
Speaker 6: if it also represents represents the third eye or the
Speaker 6: pineal gland, you've got the third ie wrapped up in that.
Speaker 6: I would, you know, wager. But it's like the third
Speaker 6: eye meets the Fibonacci sequence, which is like the golden
Speaker 6: ratio with the numbers, like higher math, higher science. So
Speaker 6: it's almost like if you see somebody holding that and
Speaker 6: you're mixing these two concepts of like third eye and
Speaker 6: higher math found in nature, it's almost symbolic of the
Speaker 6: human being, like receiving nosis or receiving knowledge, like with
Speaker 6: this picture you had of there's a pine cone at
Speaker 6: the person's fingertips. It to me this is symbolic of
Speaker 6: I don't know, receiving higher knowledge.
Speaker 2: Perhaps I just wanted to respond really quick, Tim. So
Speaker 2: I think that's super profound what you said. And I
Speaker 2: actually think this goes back to the episode I jested
Speaker 2: with Nick and Matt which we were talking about Benna Binna.
Speaker 2: Is that higher math, that kind of higher intellectual thinking
Speaker 2: exactly what you're talking about. And that perceptual element, that
Speaker 2: element that's in perception of that higher knowledge is has said.
Speaker 2: So it's that Saturn Jupiter connection. That's kind of what
Speaker 2: makes the world real. It's like we see it, we
Speaker 2: know it exactly what you said, higher knowledge, and we
Speaker 2: understand it. All those three things at the same time. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I had to do kamala and I I apologize.
Speaker 3: No, I want to build upon what Jin said because
Speaker 3: of the kabal and then it maybe think of numbers.
Speaker 3: One of the things with the thumb still staying around
Speaker 3: the thumb is that the thumb itself is controlled by
Speaker 3: nine muscles. Well, let me let me rephrase that. So
Speaker 3: there are no country property believe there are no muscles
Speaker 3: in your fingers there. It's only tendons and ligaments, right,
Speaker 3: and they're connected to muscles, and that's kind of how
Speaker 3: it works. And it works like in a rope pulley
Speaker 3: type system. But with the thumb there are it. The
Speaker 3: thumb itself is controlled by nine muscles and it has
Speaker 3: three major nerves. So you have the number ninety three
Speaker 3: and then there are I believe six potential directions or
Speaker 3: movements that the thumb can make at the base joint.
Speaker 3: So going back to what you were talking about, Jen,
Speaker 3: you have this three six nine vortex math, you have
Speaker 3: any kind of it's called the golden ratio, and not
Speaker 3: three six nine is the golden ratio, but you have
Speaker 3: all of these types of what we've heard these these
Speaker 3: things over and over in secret societies or occult practices.
Speaker 3: These numbers are these orientations happening all again within the thumb.
Speaker 3: So that I throw that in there as well.
Speaker 2: That's really great, Lisa, Like three six nine, like just
Speaker 2: think about in Kabola. It's a they'nah different and your
Speaker 2: sod and like good. I always he's nick about this
Speaker 2: because he always says that he used to listening to
Speaker 2: David I back in the day, and David Ice talks
Speaker 2: about the Saturn moon matrix, right, well, that is I
Speaker 2: mean that he's talking about something fundamentally real in Kabbala,
Speaker 2: like that is an important kabalistic lesson is that everything
Speaker 2: is formed in your mind. So when he's saying it's
Speaker 2: like a matrix that you're trapped in it, he's not
Speaker 2: actually talking about like the drix. He's talking about like
Speaker 2: your kind of consciousness matrix. Like you're saying you're trapped
Speaker 2: And that's what and that's exactly what those numbers are
Speaker 2: because six is really the higher apotheosis of all of
Speaker 2: those things in synthesis. So and very profound thank you.
Speaker 3: No no, no, thank you, Jen. And then if we
Speaker 3: ever get to do the gnostic mass to that one
Speaker 3: of the things with the pennel and Jen, you kind
Speaker 3: of drop my memory on this. With the pineal, you
Speaker 3: can charge your pineal by I think it's a full
Speaker 3: moon facing north Yeah, so again going back.
Speaker 4: To the whole facing the north pole on a full
Speaker 4: moon charges your pineal glad because that totally makes sense.
Speaker 3: So that's that's one of the I guess series out
Speaker 3: there that potentially you could charge your pineal uh during
Speaker 3: a full moon facing north. That's I don't know when,
Speaker 3: I don't know what point. That's all I just remember
Speaker 3: from reading. But yeah, So going back to the whole
Speaker 3: lunar thing of what Jen was.
Speaker 1: Saying with, Yeah, I think Crowley actually suggested that look
Speaker 1: at the moon its full.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure where I got it from. You told
Speaker 3: me that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing that told me.
Speaker 3: You told me that you face north at midnight, and
Speaker 3: I was like, well, that's interesting because I do know
Speaker 3: that the pineal is receptive to moon light frequency electromagnetic
Speaker 3: frequency from the moon, and you can potentially charge it
Speaker 3: because it can sense it at midnight from a full
Speaker 3: moon facing north.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that goes. Sorry, I just want to yeah, you go,
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna have a bunch of I want to say.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just gonna be really quick. I just want
Speaker 2: to say to jump off. Lisa's point is that that's
Speaker 2: a really interesting thing that you said about the apex
Speaker 2: of the moon at midnight, because that is actually in
Speaker 2: contric astrology, that is what is considered as apex. The
Speaker 2: true north at midnight is the moon, whereas at noon
Speaker 2: in tontric astrology, I'm not saying this is real, but
Speaker 2: I'm just saying in Tontric astrology it's venus, so very
Speaker 2: interest are staying kind of feminine. Both have feminine, specifically
Speaker 2: feminine qualities.
Speaker 1: See even at even at noon when you're doing going
Speaker 1: back to rush, that is something I do want to
Speaker 1: think eventually cover. And I think from what Lisa is
Speaker 1: saying and the other stuff, the other prayers, I do
Speaker 1: think it's to charge up Neil Glenn for sure. But
Speaker 1: even when you face at noon, when you're facing and
Speaker 1: you're doing the prayer, you're still even actually including a
Speaker 1: chick at that time. You're praying to Hathlor. Now I
Speaker 1: know that's like to me. I used to sometimes use
Speaker 1: Hathlor for netsuck anyway, even though I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I found that interesting how you said a female or
Speaker 1: whatever venus. And again it's associated you know, this prayer
Speaker 1: is associated with the female during the day. So if
Speaker 1: you're into.
Speaker 3: Something that's you do charge it at mid day two sorry,
Speaker 3: tim at mid day at noon you do charge your
Speaker 3: pennial as well, because at noon, depending where you are
Speaker 3: on the surface of the earth, you were receiving all
Speaker 3: of the light in its appropriate ratios of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, you've got twelve o'clock noon, and then
Speaker 6: you've got the twelve phases of the moon. I'm just
Speaker 6: thinking about the numbers here, and the golden ratio is
Speaker 6: like one point six something, So there's a six in
Speaker 6: there if you're thinking about like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and if you add the one in the eight,
Speaker 6: you get the nine, so technically it has a six.
Speaker 6: I'm in there, But I was going to ask, what's
Speaker 6: this association with Venus because that's was there association with
Speaker 6: Venus that was mentioned?
Speaker 1: Oh no, maybe maybe Jin said something about something about
Speaker 1: feminine and that reminded me of the prayer at twelve
Speaker 1: o'clock was also a feminine deity that you pray to.
Speaker 1: Maybe you didn't say Venus and I fucked that up there.
Speaker 2: Well, no, no, I did say Venus. Sorry, Venus. Is
Speaker 2: that the apex of the north? It's true north at noon,
Speaker 2: just at that point in the sky.
Speaker 3: This is the one idea and it was and it
Speaker 3: was the first star that you can see in the morning, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the morning star. It can be the rising and
Speaker 2: falling star. This is really interesting in contrac nostrology. Actually
Speaker 2: is that both Mars and Venus can be the rising
Speaker 2: and falling star, depending or the morning and evening star
Speaker 2: they switch.
Speaker 3: Okay, and those two points in the earth, I mean
Speaker 3: on the earth is what is is the the switch
Speaker 3: like literally like light switch to turn on and off
Speaker 3: your pineal gland is is the crepuscular times or the
Speaker 3: dawn dusk whatever.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I see this as being saturated with divine
Speaker 6: feminine if we're talking about hath Or and we're talking
Speaker 6: about Venus, and you know, even even the Bible mentions
Speaker 6: the morning star in association with Venus, and if you
Speaker 6: go further into that, I would I would suggest that
Speaker 6: it's probably associated with an honor, a start day ishtar.
Speaker 4: And also Jesus was called some of the morning. Jesus
Speaker 4: was called some of the morning as well.
Speaker 2: Jesus was the child of the north star.
Speaker 1: Though really depending on what the translation you want to use,
Speaker 1: the call in the morning.
Speaker 4: Store Yeah, right, And I think it has to do
Speaker 4: with different parts of the year. And you know, we
Speaker 4: see that again with Venus, which the morning star part
Speaker 4: of the year is the spring and then for the
Speaker 4: summer it goes away and then like fall, winter it's
Speaker 4: in the evening part of the sky, So there is
Speaker 4: this dichotomy between when it shows up during the year.
Speaker 4: So I think a lot of that has to do
Speaker 4: with the calendar.
Speaker 1: One thing I did want to mention too, This was
Speaker 1: why I said I was gonna talk for a little bit,
Speaker 1: is because the OTOO fuck it when I do my
Speaker 1: second degree initiation. Uh, you guys got me thinking of
Speaker 1: that whole thumb thing. Let me just go back a
Speaker 1: little bit. There has been times during the initiations where like,
Speaker 1: I'll just use this same example, I'm already saying stuff,
Speaker 1: I'm not SUPs. So they'll they'll take a sort and
Speaker 1: not hit you hard, but they'll tap your waist and
Speaker 1: they tell you. At some point after you do the initiation,
Speaker 1: sometimes like a few weeks maybe a month later, they'll
Speaker 1: have a class and anybody who's ever done that degree
Speaker 1: can come in and take the class and they'll kind
Speaker 1: of go over it a little bit. And normally they'll
Speaker 1: have like people that just did that initiation kind of
Speaker 1: come in and say some stuff, and they had said
Speaker 1: that when they do that sort thing, it was to
Speaker 1: activate that chakra down there. Now during the second degree,
Speaker 1: there's at one point, they give you this stick piece
Speaker 1: of wood that has a screw on the top of it,
Speaker 1: and they specifically tell you to put it on your
Speaker 1: thumb and screw it down until you can't you know,
Speaker 1: until you can whatever, until I guess you can bear
Speaker 1: it anymore. I mean, I already from reading stuff I
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to read. I already knew what was going
Speaker 1: to happen. So I mean, I just did it a
Speaker 1: little bit and I said, Okay, that's it, you know whatever.
Speaker 1: But I am like, you're starting to wonder now when
Speaker 1: they said that they specifically will tap you places and
Speaker 1: do things to activate chakras. Was that whole thing to
Speaker 1: do with the whole thumbshit? Were they putting the screwed?
Speaker 1: Were you screwing that shit down yourself? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It just it made me think about that when you
Speaker 1: were talking about the thumb and the panel, Glen in
Speaker 1: the connection.
Speaker 4: Have you ever have you ever heard of the torture
Speaker 4: technique the thumb screws, right, So it was like a
Speaker 4: torture technique. They would put you in the thumb screws,
Speaker 4: which was like this thing that they would put down
Speaker 4: on top of the cuticle and as they're cranking it down,
Speaker 4: they want you to confess to certain crimes or whatever.
Speaker 4: But if they've got you doing that during an initiation,
Speaker 4: you're putting the thumb screws to yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then you know what they this is like shit
Speaker 1: that they did that they say this is And this
Speaker 1: was one of the reasons why I was like, what's
Speaker 1: going on in this place? They lift it up, they
Speaker 1: show you that it's like a stick and it has
Speaker 1: the screw at the top. Then when they show you
Speaker 1: the bottom of it, it was like hollowed out, and
Speaker 1: they're like, now, if you maybe noticed everything. Basically, what
Speaker 1: they're getting at is that not everything may be as
Speaker 1: it seems. That was the whole lesson to learn from that,
Speaker 1: because if I would have looked around and sold everything,
Speaker 1: I would have realized I could have just stuck the
Speaker 1: whole fucking thing on my thumb and wouldn't have had
Speaker 1: to turn the screw, you know, some shit like that.
Speaker 1: You know, so like it was even like it was
Speaker 1: even weird like that lesson because right before that, I
Speaker 1: had people push me into a pool and they're telling me,
Speaker 1: you don't trust my brothers and sisters and siblings, and
Speaker 1: now you tell me not everything seems to be. Not
Speaker 1: everything is as it seems? What fuck you telling me?
Speaker 1: Now you know what's going on here?
Speaker 4: It's like they're planting paranoia.
Speaker 1: No, it's like, well, technically, if it's the second degree,
Speaker 1: that's my third time, and the other two initiations before
Speaker 1: that they both told me you can't trust anybody in
Speaker 1: their own way. So I'm like, is this the three
Speaker 1: times you told me?
Speaker 2: Three times?
Speaker 1: After this is you're a fucking idiot? Could be something
Speaker 1: like that. I don't get it, but uh yeah, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to twist that in there. About that the
Speaker 1: pine cone on there again, you know, and I said
Speaker 1: it two or three times light But it's just weird
Speaker 1: to me thinking about, you know, with that pine cone
Speaker 1: there and possibly connected to your paneal glend there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff I think Croley does that shows penal glenduff.
Speaker 4: Well, if you think about it from the Greek perspective,
Speaker 4: you know, you've got the idea of Prometheus and this
Speaker 4: thing that made us uniquely human, and so the thumb
Speaker 4: is one of these things that make us uniquely human
Speaker 4: as opposed to one of the other animals. It sticks out.
Speaker 4: It does a lot of stuff that we tell it
Speaker 4: to all these other paws and stuff. They can't, you know,
Speaker 4: really operate the thumb, so it you know, it's one
Speaker 4: of these uniquely human traits in the hand that I
Speaker 4: think they were trying to glorify. It's like, this is
Speaker 4: the thing that gets us close to God is because
Speaker 4: this makes us different from everything else.
Speaker 3: To build upon that, I will say, the opposable thumbs.
Speaker 3: I wish raccoons didn't have them, but that's neither here
Speaker 3: or squirrels, neither here nor there. But one of the
Speaker 3: unique things with thumbs is that only humans and primates
Speaker 3: can touch the thumb to the other fingers. So that's
Speaker 3: that's definitely a unique characteristic within the hand thumb finger
Speaker 3: I guess situation. But the one of the things that
Speaker 3: I kind of wanted to insert, just kind of tangent
Speaker 3: the amount of population that's left handed versus right handed.
Speaker 3: I always found that to be really odd that it's
Speaker 3: like it's like ten percent of the population the entire
Speaker 3: population is left handed. Well, you're told kind of or
Speaker 3: guided to be right handed in elementary I remember that,
Speaker 3: But for the part I believe it's only a ten
Speaker 3: percent percentage of the human population that is left handed,
Speaker 3: and then like even less than that, like it's one percent.
Speaker 3: That's ambidexterrous. I thought that was that was something like
Speaker 3: you have it in multiples of ten.
Speaker 2: So well, sort of a riff off your point, Lisa,
Speaker 2: since Nick brought up the sorry headless, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: go really quick. This is sink foil. So I thought
Speaker 2: you would like this, Lisa, simply because this is the
Speaker 2: one thing I actually contributed to the Call Research Instry
Speaker 2: in written form is the herb Correspondences. So this is
Speaker 2: a really important magical herb in both Europe and North America,
Speaker 2: for both indigenous people and Europeans. And so its name
Speaker 2: in French actually means the five fingered hand, sink oil,
Speaker 2: sink foi, so it represents the hand of Mary. So
Speaker 2: actually it's there's also an idea in spiritism which I
Speaker 2: believe also comes from this, and it's the hand of
Speaker 2: the saints. And you'll see this a lot of Puerto
Speaker 2: Rican kind of like sance. There's a hand and it
Speaker 2: will have the five Arisia or the five saints. But
Speaker 2: sometimes it's different. It's not always. You know, sometimes people
Speaker 2: pray like use that can or whatever, and they're not.
Speaker 2: It's not a risha, it's saints. But some people that, yeah,
Speaker 2: that is so. But basically it's that there are five
Speaker 2: roads for every person when they're born, and so it's
Speaker 2: the they say, you can't open all five roads in
Speaker 2: one lifetime. That's something I've heard people say. But this
Speaker 2: plant is the divine kind of savior, s hand of
Speaker 2: merry plant, so it opens all five roads for you.
Speaker 2: So and that's exactly what it's used for. It's used
Speaker 2: for luck, love, job, money, and success, just general success.
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a really great thing. And you'll
Speaker 2: see in a lot of older recipes for van Van oil.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: And it reminds me of the five pedaled flower that
Speaker 3: was found imprinted on lavito in Mexico, and it's very
Speaker 3: symbolic to the michigas Aztec people as well. So it's
Speaker 3: interesting that you bring that up because it's a five
Speaker 3: all over again.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is a rose too, it's a it's a
Speaker 2: lesser rose. It's a potent tell us, so it means
Speaker 2: even the name means potency or potential.
Speaker 4: Mm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Wow, all right, thank you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think about like sacred geometry as well, with
Speaker 6: some of the stuff we've talked about today, like which
Speaker 6: was big in Egypt. And I only mention that because
Speaker 6: Osyrus was often depicted holding a staff with the pine
Speaker 6: cone on it. So I wonder if all this is
Speaker 6: symbolic of maybe an early form of masonry and building
Speaker 6: pyramids and building temples in Egypt. So it'd be like
Speaker 6: sacred geometry in conjunction with g nosis and basically a
Speaker 6: way of putting the knowledge to use, and I I wouldn't.
Speaker 6: I don't know that masonry goes back to ancient Egypt,
Speaker 6: but some form of it might.
Speaker 5: It doesn't, and you're right, I think I think a
Speaker 5: lot of it goes back to masonry. Like I said,
Speaker 5: I just finished up my Ananaki presentation. For part of
Speaker 5: my PowerPoint presentation, a lot of people know who the
Speaker 5: Samerians are, and uh, when I was doing my research
Speaker 5: on them, a lot of people will say that they're
Speaker 5: known as the black headed people, right where they're known
Speaker 5: as mankind or human or you know something that identifies
Speaker 5: you know us as you know a species. But then
Speaker 5: I read from somebody who is a thirty third degree Mason,
Speaker 5: and I can't remember exactly which book it is. I
Speaker 5: have to go look and see which which one it is.
Speaker 5: I know which value, I know what authors from. I
Speaker 5: just don't know which book it is actually from. And uh,
Speaker 5: he was saying that they're also known as brothers. Well,
Speaker 5: you know, Masons identify each other as brothers, or at
Speaker 5: least every time I've come in contact with them, they
Speaker 5: always that word always seems to pop up.
Speaker 4: But they were known as brothers.
Speaker 5: Another good example of that is a lot of people
Speaker 5: know that Inky and En they that they were brothers, right,
Speaker 5: but there are texts out there which I actually have
Speaker 5: in my presentation that one could be the father and
Speaker 5: one could be the son. Sometimes it flip flops which
Speaker 5: one was the father and son. So the brother's part
Speaker 5: stuck out on them, stuck out to me because that's
Speaker 5: a group of and those were a group of individuals
Speaker 5: that was in the elite, right, they were higher class
Speaker 5: than everybody else, and at a time that's what Mason's
Speaker 5: and some of them probably still think as themselves as today.
Speaker 5: So it's just amazing that you know the symbolism and
Speaker 5: it doesn't just go back to the ancient Egyptians a
Speaker 5: lot of the symbolism you can find in a dog
Speaker 5: On tribe. And I actually had a podcast discussion with
Speaker 5: one of the authors, Laris Gratton, on his book about it,
Speaker 5: and he talks about symbolism. So yeah, it's definitely something
Speaker 5: in there. You know, each o there, Mesutami and all
Speaker 5: that they have a link between each other. Even Messo
Speaker 5: America has a link.
Speaker 4: Hey what about the Masonic handshakes? Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 4: a symbolism s Morgesborg. You know they've got all these
Speaker 4: different parts of the hand that they're touching for different
Speaker 4: types of Masonic handshakes. That's very mystical.
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, but you know when I when I read
Speaker 7: about them, it's more like, uh, you can't go to
Speaker 7: the next degree without perfecting the degree that you're in now.
Speaker 1: So how can you move?
Speaker 7: How can you get promoted?
Speaker 5: If you're not good at your job that you're at
Speaker 5: right now, right, why would you expect the promotion? And
Speaker 5: they stick very strong to those rules, or at least
Speaker 5: from what I've read.
Speaker 4: I had books from.
Speaker 5: Godfrey Higgins and you know Albert Pike and then Godfrey
Speaker 5: Higgins is actually my favorite historian and slash author. And
Speaker 5: then you have Albert church church Ward I think that's
Speaker 5: how you say his last name. You know, he talks
Speaker 5: about the symbolism. So there is definitely something. You know,
Speaker 5: when you see symbolism, you can see that there's a
Speaker 5: certain language and meaning towards behind it, that that symbol
Speaker 5: that's that you have right now means only one thing
Speaker 5: to a certain group of individuals, and everybody sees that
Speaker 5: will understand that. It's the same thing like when I
Speaker 5: say with emojis and stuff like that, with pictographic scripts
Speaker 5: of today, you know, you have a whole sentence on
Speaker 5: just a pictographic script. It's just the people that the
Speaker 5: people that are having that conversation, they need to have
Speaker 5: enough knowledge on there or on what each pictograph means.
Speaker 5: And hand symbolism is the same thing with like I
Speaker 5: don't know if if before we started record going live
Speaker 5: or after while we was live, but somebody was mentioning about,
Speaker 5: you know, some of the gangs and stuff like that
Speaker 5: they can have a whole discussion with just with their hands.
Speaker 5: You know, a whole with this guys, and you know
Speaker 5: exactly what to do, and so you know, it's it's
Speaker 5: a very easy way to communicate. I think when we
Speaker 5: started using words, everybody try to use use their words
Speaker 5: to mean whatever narrative they're trying to share.
Speaker 1: Later on, I can.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, just really quick.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna take one stab again at the
Speaker 3: dead horse on the pine cone. The pine cone. The
Speaker 3: ones that we do see are the ones that are
Speaker 3: more prominent, are the female, because pine trees produce female
Speaker 3: and male pine cones. The male ones you rarely do see.
Speaker 3: They're not showy. They mainly produce paullin jin. Please step
Speaker 3: in if I'm wrong. But the bigger one are the
Speaker 3: ones that you see on the on the floor, whatever,
Speaker 3: the ones that people hold up. That's the female one.
Speaker 2: But that's it.
Speaker 6: Oh well, that's perfect because you reminded me of something
Speaker 6: that I meant say earlier. The Romans associated the pine
Speaker 6: cone with Venus, and so with the goddess Venus. So
Speaker 6: it makes me wonder when you see that big bronze
Speaker 6: or whatever it is, that big pine cone at the Vatican,
Speaker 6: if that was them sort of quietly inducting goddess worship
Speaker 6: into the facility in the grounds of the Vatican itself.
Speaker 6: And if you look back at like the Etruscans. Because
Speaker 6: the Etruscans built Rome, they actually had a goddess name Vatica.
Speaker 2: Okay, so go ahead. J sorry tim no no no,
Speaker 2: I apologize. I was a little I shouldn't have jumped in,
Speaker 2: but you know you were saying something. I got excited.
Speaker 2: So I just want to change the angle for you.
Speaker 2: I want to say. You could say I accept that
Speaker 2: I accept that it could be a divine, feminine like encapsulation,
Speaker 2: like a crystalline matrix. You could say that's very feminine,
Speaker 2: divine force. But I also think that it could just
Speaker 2: be adopting, like something that's quote unquote I'm not a perennialist,
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna use the word perennially true. So it
Speaker 2: could be just something that appears magical experience. And obviously
Speaker 2: there are people who attribute both masculine and feminine qualities
Speaker 2: to often the same things. So when you're looking at
Speaker 2: comparative mythology, especially from like east to West, as something
Speaker 2: that I often do, you see that there is like
Speaker 2: there are different, very different ideas of the same thing,
Speaker 2: but then there is a kind of underlying truth to
Speaker 2: both of them. They can reason through. But it might
Speaker 2: be like a very different at face value understanding of it.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying you're wrong. I agree, I totally
Speaker 2: accept that.
Speaker 6: Well, I'll say I'll say this because I might be wrong.
Speaker 6: I was just throwing it out there as a possibility
Speaker 6: because of the just because of some of the connections
Speaker 6: that I'm looking at here with Like again, I'm just
Speaker 6: saying this might be the case. I'm not saying it
Speaker 6: is the case. But like when I see that the
Speaker 6: Roman Empire seemed to kind of dissolve or morph into
Speaker 6: the Vatican, and there's you know, I'm assuming that maybe
Speaker 6: some of that goddess worship was still there and maybe
Speaker 6: it got turned into something else and or masquerades to
Speaker 6: something else. But again I'm not sure. But I do
Speaker 6: think that it's interesting that the trust Caans have the
Speaker 6: Goddess Vatica.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah. I think the closest link between like the
Speaker 2: Roman religion and the Vatican is the pantheon of Saints
Speaker 2: like they have in France, like the Penteon they have.
Speaker 2: It's like people who were like born in like nineteen
Speaker 2: oh five. They have like enshrine there that they pray to.
Speaker 2: They have like actually official national prayers. So I think
Speaker 2: that that is very much like an encapsulation of that
Speaker 2: kind of like Lay Empire Roman religion, which people often
Speaker 2: mistake for being very polytheistic, it was actually very much
Speaker 2: about the imperial cult of ancestors. So I think that's
Speaker 2: very interesting. Of course, every there are different goddesses and
Speaker 2: god names and people, you know, encoding things in those
Speaker 2: within those names and those like kinds of images. This
Speaker 2: is a great one. This is Shiva on top of
Speaker 2: the mountain, on top of the world mountain. You could say, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: like when Nicks showed he's doing the abayah mudra. So
Speaker 2: this is the gesture of fearlessness. So you're gonna ask,
Speaker 2: why is this calm, chill, dope smoking guy, Why is
Speaker 2: he offering you the gesture of fearlessness? Because once you
Speaker 2: wake him up, he becomes bi rava, he becomes very ferocious,
Speaker 2: and he turns almost black blue black, and he has
Speaker 2: like fangs, and the carnal ground arises above him. So
Speaker 2: you have to. But that's also your own consciousness, your
Speaker 2: own mind. So when your mind wakes up, so you
Speaker 2: have to. That's what he offers, the gesture of fearlessness.
Speaker 2: So you can first enter the garden or the mountain
Speaker 2: or the carnal ground or wherever he is, and you
Speaker 2: can bypass him and you can see him as just
Speaker 2: his placid face is not a mask, but it's it's
Speaker 2: just one of many. That's one way to think of it.
Speaker 8: You know what, I really love that go ahead, I
Speaker 8: was gonna, I was gonna say that the skins kind
Speaker 8: of almost represent a fearlessness to both Dionysus and Pan,
Speaker 8: Like Pan has these fur patterns in his legs that
Speaker 8: are kind of like the stars, and so that's one
Speaker 8: of the.
Speaker 4: Reasons why he was referred to as sort of like
Speaker 4: this cosmic deity is because he had all of the
Speaker 4: stars in his pelt, and so that kind of goes
Speaker 4: into this Dionician character that you know, you also have
Speaker 4: the pine cone associated with Shiva, So there's there's a
Speaker 4: real crossover between Dionysus Shiva, and you know, all these
Speaker 4: different versions that they had. Like addis worship going on
Speaker 4: in that Thracian region of Anatolia.
Speaker 2: There there's a clear link between elements of what you're
Speaker 2: saying Solar and like the alcon Huns and their journey
Speaker 2: from more of that southern Turkey into into a northern
Speaker 2: into the Himalayas. Excuse me, I couldn't think of it
Speaker 2: right away, But they went into the Himalayas, and that's
Speaker 2: really where tontras started. That Birava tantras were the first.
Speaker 2: But it's really important to note that this image of
Speaker 2: Shiva is in no way tontric. He's not suggesting anything tontric.
Speaker 2: There's nothing tontric associated with his worship in general, and
Speaker 2: most Indians would not understand this image in an even
Speaker 2: remotely tonic way. I obviously gave it a little flavor,
Speaker 2: but in most this is a very normy, normative, very
Speaker 2: orthodox kind of image. So he's at sleeping consciousness. That's
Speaker 2: how a normative quote unquote hind would understand this. He's
Speaker 2: at sleeping consciousness and the water is flowing down, but
Speaker 2: this the water from heaven. So he's really the god
Speaker 2: of secret knowledge if you want to like the secret
Speaker 2: not the secret idea of Shiva. He's the god of
Speaker 2: secret knowledge. So even the moon he wears, it's not
Speaker 2: really a moon. Most normative Hindus would understand this to
Speaker 2: be a moon. It's actually the eclipse. And depending on
Speaker 2: what side it even is on his hair it actually is.
Speaker 2: You can astro theologically sort of align it to the
Speaker 2: nichest cycle, which is like a sixteen sort of I
Speaker 2: think night moon cycle. There's different numbers for different systems,
Speaker 2: but it's a very interesting thing, like you can really change,
Speaker 2: like what Tim was saying, you can encode a lot
Speaker 2: of things into iconography, signs and meanings into answer something
Speaker 2: that you said, solar and then I'll shut up, I promise.
Speaker 2: But the animal skins have a really interesting meaning. So
Speaker 2: the leopard skin means he's overcome the sort of demon
Speaker 2: you could say, of bliss consciousness, so he doesn't need
Speaker 2: to always be pleasured to be chill. And if he
Speaker 2: is sitting on the tiger skin, he's overcome all fear.
Speaker 2: So he's offering the gesture of fearlessness, but he's also
Speaker 2: overcome it himself. Sorry, I'm gonna go on for that long.
Speaker 1: No thanks, I just want to let you know you're
Speaker 1: not doing space is solar? Isn't here? That was headless
Speaker 1: with Tim that you're talking to.
Speaker 2: Did I say solar twice?
Speaker 1: Maybe the first time?
Speaker 2: I apologize. I apologize guy, it was like late, I'm
Speaker 2: sorry again, apologize.
Speaker 1: It's all right, it's all right. Oh, it was something
Speaker 1: I wanted to say about this, but I needed Lisa
Speaker 1: his so I guess maybe I'll have to pass for now.
Speaker 1: I do uh. One thing I do find interesting with this.
Speaker 1: It does almost remind me of the the Hermit card
Speaker 1: because of the snake in the hand open again, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, because that is I also think that, I
Speaker 1: mean the snake. I think is can be used for
Speaker 1: multiple reasons. Obviously. I do think it can also sometimes
Speaker 1: uh show like something to do with the pineal gland
Speaker 1: or your eyeball. I do think sometimes the snake. When
Speaker 1: I think with the Hermit card, it's more of showing
Speaker 1: possibly the this, you know, the twisting of the pupil closing,
Speaker 1: smiling closed, And I have said that it does happen
Speaker 1: like when that when I have them. This could just
Speaker 1: really all could be a grasp me looking at the
Speaker 1: snake on the right side. But I've even said that's
Speaker 1: the pupil that of mind that spins closed like it's
Speaker 1: you know, pinned, And I do see the snakes on
Speaker 1: the right side of well yeah, yeah, technically.
Speaker 2: No, you're you're totally right neck. It's so in in Tantra,
Speaker 2: there's he has actually secret channels inside his body. There's
Speaker 2: like a trident, like there's three channels that rise up.
Speaker 2: One is behind the eye that you're talking about, and
Speaker 2: so you'll see in Tantra iconography they'll do one eye
Speaker 2: the pupils a sun and the other eye of the
Speaker 2: pupil is a crescent moon like an eclipse. So that's
Speaker 2: even how it's described. And the dragon of the eclipse
Speaker 2: again to reference the serpent. Right, so it all makes
Speaker 2: sense to what you're saying. There's this is absolutely not
Speaker 2: wrong at.
Speaker 4: All, Jin, I got one for you, John three fourteen.
Speaker 4: Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,
Speaker 4: so the son of man must be lifted up.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say that that's I'll keep this quick,
Speaker 6: jin no, no, no, please please, Well that seems to
Speaker 6: be conducious symbolism to me, just say it.
Speaker 4: I think that, like on the the hand of Sebazios,
Speaker 4: you've got this snake figure that's always sort of present
Speaker 4: in with this sort of dian Ician type idea. So
Speaker 4: you've got so many different snakes that apply into that symbol.
Speaker 4: They were talking specifically about the one at Delphi, but
Speaker 4: the idea of the snake being wisdom and treachery. These
Speaker 4: kind of dualistic kind of symbols are associated with the
Speaker 4: Bible all over the place.
Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, being being knowledgeable. That's why I eve
Speaker 5: ate the fruit. Yeah, that's why I say that too.
Speaker 5: Like a lot of people say, you know, they correlate,
Speaker 5: you know, the serpents, say in Lucifer the devil or
Speaker 5: whatever the case. Man, I mean, they throw it all
Speaker 5: in one one category. We know that between us, at
Speaker 5: least we know the difference between them. But when it
Speaker 5: comes up to the snake, the snake is always known
Speaker 5: as someone that's given knowledge to somebody else, and it
Speaker 5: seems like that and what we do with that knowledge
Speaker 5: determines whether it was for good or evil. But the
Speaker 5: point is is when you see the snake, the snake
Speaker 5: was always seen as you know, as something you know, trying.
Speaker 2: To give somebody knowledge.
Speaker 5: I mean, most people are scared of snakes when they
Speaker 5: see them, but you.
Speaker 4: Know, they have that the believer that the believers of
Speaker 4: the Testament, the believers in the New Testament are said
Speaker 4: that they can now tread upon snakes and scorpions. I
Speaker 4: think there's a little bit of astro theology in that too.
Speaker 4: You've got the symbol of scorpio in there as well.
Speaker 2: That was great Tyrone and Hadless I have to say,
Speaker 2: we don't know's agree, but honestly, really great points. And
Speaker 2: what Tyrone said I think is really really profound, because
Speaker 2: that is exactly what it is. Like Shivas swallowed the poison,
Speaker 2: the haula Halla poison that arose from the turning of
Speaker 2: the second turning of the supernoal waters, and so he
Speaker 2: swallowed that and he keeps it in his lower body,
Speaker 2: his stomach. He has to totally focus all his like
Speaker 2: a third eye power you could say, like Naruto kind of,
Speaker 2: so it swirls around in his stomach, and so he
Speaker 2: keeps that so like his own son figure can emerge.
Speaker 2: So that's even an idea, so really interesting, Thank you, Tyrone.
Speaker 1: Another thing I wanted to mention with this is just
Speaker 1: to go back to I've even wondered if this is
Speaker 1: even sometimes why it's even shown on like the hermaphrodite
Speaker 1: or you know those whatever, those al chemical man and
Speaker 1: woman the nipple showing. Just to go back to the
Speaker 1: n ox formula and something that Crowley came up with,
Speaker 1: you will at one point act like your isis breastfeeding
Speaker 1: horse holding horse, and you'll be pinching your nipple and
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the nipple is showing because that does
Speaker 1: connect to the pineal gland as well on a female.
Speaker 1: So I just wondered about that.
Speaker 6: But why is the skin blue or bluish?
Speaker 2: Okay, you see how his lingam is brown, that brown
Speaker 2: pineal gland. I know that's what a headless. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to call you solar before I apologize
Speaker 2: for that. His brown lingam, So there's covered in milk
Speaker 2: is the idea. So, but it's really supposed to be
Speaker 2: a black chloroalite stone. So when you pour the white
Speaker 2: milk over the black stone, it looks sort of blue.
Speaker 2: So this is like a clear like very night sky
Speaker 2: or very day sky, excuse me, so like turquoise. It
Speaker 2: kind of appears turquoise. So he's like turquoise like the
Speaker 2: day sky because he's sleeping.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're drinking that colonial silver shit.
Speaker 4: You never know, right, very lunar, very lunar coded. You
Speaker 4: get into that lunar mind set, you gotta drink the
Speaker 4: coloidal silver.
Speaker 6: Makes sense right on one other question I had that
Speaker 6: go for it last picture.
Speaker 1: There we go, there you.
Speaker 2: Go, that's the same god. So that's the same uh
Speaker 2: you know, that's Siva. And then that's his wife and
Speaker 2: she's nursing him. This is right after, in fact, that
Speaker 2: he drinks the poison. It's only her breast milk can
Speaker 2: save him, can repair the world.
Speaker 1: That's how it's described, like even on the list one too.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe they do it en maybe I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: maybe they do it on all of them, but like
Speaker 1: they active, they have marchs where their panel Gleann would be.
Speaker 1: Do they always do that or.
Speaker 2: It's special for Tara because she is the third Eye.
Speaker 2: So the original story is the goddess, the original goddess
Speaker 2: of having got cut up into fifty one pieces, so
Speaker 2: obviously magic number. And then so each part of her
Speaker 2: falls on a specific place and then a new goddess
Speaker 2: sort of herself arises, and so Tara arises as part
Speaker 2: of the third Eye. So when Tara and Tara is
Speaker 2: also associated with that hassetic idea of perception, it's very
Speaker 2: much her idea. She is the flame of the of perception,
Speaker 2: that's even how it's described. But she's also the waters
Speaker 2: of superno mercy, so she's Actually it's interesting because it's
Speaker 2: actually both cover outic kind aesthetic at the same time.
Speaker 1: Well, the last two images, I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: common or not. The bo had that nipple showing and
Speaker 1: they had the pineal gland drawn on their forehead, and Lisa,
Speaker 1: since your back, could you please explain the connection between
Speaker 1: the paneal gland and the nipple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know the exact mechanism off the top
Speaker 3: of my head, but yes, the pineal gland influences the
Speaker 3: pituitary for milk let down, which is prolactin, and then
Speaker 3: that's and then the feedback of oxytocin from the bonding
Speaker 3: that occurs between the mother and the So I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: Oxytocin helps with the release of prolactin. Prolactin causes milk
Speaker 3: let down, and then the reinforced positive feedback with the
Speaker 3: child latching onto the nipple, and then the oxytosine oxytoscin
Speaker 3: bonding and all that other stuff. With all that that
Speaker 3: being said, during milk let down, the milk itself is
Speaker 3: carries vital information that is received in like packages of
Speaker 3: photons or photons or packages of information that tell the
Speaker 3: child or tell the infant where it is, what time
Speaker 3: it is, daylight, moonlight, nighttime, what have you. It starts
Speaker 3: to program the circadian rim of the child itself, if
Speaker 3: it was not already starting to be programmed within utero
Speaker 3: because the child had yet to see light sunlight. Also,
Speaker 3: reinforcing of the circadian rhythm comes from the from the
Speaker 3: mother's pineal and basically tells the child or conveys the
Speaker 3: information to the child where the child is, what sees,
Speaker 3: and so forth. So yeah, the pineal does feed into
Speaker 3: breastfeeding very much so. And one other thing, sorry this
Speaker 3: kind of tangent, but like in the event that a
Speaker 3: child undergoes or a child unfortunately goes through some sort
Speaker 3: of like head trauma, the child will release certain enzymes
Speaker 3: or chemical messages messages in mouth and it's saliva that
Speaker 3: will feed into the nipple and the memory tissue, and
Speaker 3: then we'll feed back up into the brain and then
Speaker 3: the brain itself mainly the pituitary haypithylamic pituitary access will
Speaker 3: then release certain peptides I think, and will deliver healing
Speaker 3: peptides to potentially heal the brain injury or the head injury.
Speaker 3: So there is that too, And that's actually that whole
Speaker 3: mechanism is being looked at for athletes that undergo like
Speaker 3: head trauma and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So damn, thank you. Yeah. I was talking about how,
Speaker 1: you know, earlier they showed a guy with his nipple
Speaker 1: showing and then this, you know, then I had mentioned
Speaker 1: Curly's ono x formula, which I have gone over with you,
Speaker 1: where he grabs the nipple because the baby's supposed to
Speaker 1: be feeding. And it is my opinion, my opinion that
Speaker 1: it may not just we'll be Dixon demons, and he
Speaker 1: could have been talking about the manula. It may not
Speaker 1: it'll be just titties and cakes and lake. It might
Speaker 1: actually be some science in this ship. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's my opinion. Uh too, Huh.
Speaker 4: It's closing the loop. It's closing the loop because you're
Speaker 4: putting the tip of your thumb on your nipple. The
Speaker 4: two symbols coming together, Okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 6: And if their skin is turquoise and not blue, then
Speaker 6: turquoise is very symbolic, especially in Egypt and across other
Speaker 6: cultures too. But in Egypt it's like protection and good fortune.
Speaker 6: And even if I told you, sorry, Tom, that was it.
Speaker 2: You're good. Sorry, what if I told you turquoise was
Speaker 2: actually the most magic color I could see that? Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's like the diamond thunder color. It's like the
Speaker 2: it's like you got it the highest quality color. So
Speaker 2: to see like this turquoise idea, especially in the Piranhas,
Speaker 2: they're very obsessed with color, and people often attribute it
Speaker 2: to race or case. It's actually none of those things.
Speaker 2: It's actually talking about layers of spiritual clurification, all chemical
Speaker 2: you could even say. So the turquoise color is actually
Speaker 2: equivalent to both lapis and clear, both quartz and like
Speaker 2: dark dark blue. So it's really interesting what you're saying.
Speaker 6: No, And it's one of my favorite colors too. I mean,
Speaker 6: I really love that color. And you know, I don't
Speaker 6: wear it a lot because it's like it's become like
Speaker 6: a hipster thing to wear a bunch of turquoise around town.
Speaker 6: Like I see these guys, like, you know, like kipsters
Speaker 6: wearing turquoise and really in here, yes, here, in my
Speaker 6: in my uh, I mean I live in a in
Speaker 6: a very hipster neighborhood of East Nashville, and these turquoise
Speaker 6: like is hitting strides right now on the streets.
Speaker 4: But never went out of st Turquoise never went out
Speaker 4: of style.
Speaker 6: Right, yeah, and that's what yeah, just the other Native
Speaker 6: Americans for sure.
Speaker 3: Going off what Jin said. I mean, it's the color
Speaker 3: of the ketzel bird, and it gets a quattal right,
Speaker 3: gets a quad That's where we come with the whole
Speaker 3: feather serpent. And then also the ketzel bird whenever it
Speaker 3: sits a certain area of the base of one of
Speaker 3: the I think it's Jualula of the pyramids in Mexico,
Speaker 3: you can hear it like it gives off a certain
Speaker 3: echo reverberation. But yeah, the cat the turquoise, sorry, kettl.
Speaker 3: The ketzel bird has that turquoise color and it's very
Speaker 3: very important, very symbolic at least to the Michigan the
Speaker 3: Aztec people, and the Miami people as well. And when
Speaker 3: the whole Virgin Mary thing came about, a lot of
Speaker 3: people think that she was robed in blue, but that
Speaker 3: was more of a European I guess misrepresentation. She was
Speaker 3: actually robed in turquoise because she was trying to give
Speaker 3: symbology to the Machika people, which they consider turquoise to
Speaker 3: be the highest level of spirituality link. John said, thank you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that we got. Here is the hand of providence.
Speaker 1: It it goes back some of these, whichever one I'm
Speaker 1: not exactly sure it is. Now you can go back
Speaker 1: all the way back to two hundred and forty four
Speaker 1: CE that they start seeing it, and then they see
Speaker 1: it again in sixth century hearing one of them is
Speaker 1: Moses in the burning bush and there's a hand coming
Speaker 1: down from the top. Here is just an isolated one,
Speaker 1: you sound that they found in Fresco in Spain. You
Speaker 1: see this one in the hand of God as it
Speaker 1: is intervenes at the sacrifice of Isaac, and that's from
Speaker 1: tenth century. We got another one here with the clothed
Speaker 1: hand clutching a wreath, and that's in Rome. It was
Speaker 1: between eleven and forty and eleven forty three. We got
Speaker 1: another one here the Visigothic capital with the sacrifice of Isaac.
Speaker 1: Again you seeing a little hand popping out of the corner.
Speaker 1: We got the Ascension of Christ and then no Lea
Speaker 1: remember that's around four hundred at the hand coming out again.
Speaker 1: I find it interesting with the baby child like or
Speaker 1: like a younger pressing, because like don't they say that
Speaker 1: like when you're younger, you might actually be more like
Speaker 1: predisposed to like that's the the world, the higher realms.
Speaker 1: So you got another one up there. I really couldn't
Speaker 1: see it that well in this picture, but there is
Speaker 1: another one up there that's from the sixth century, a
Speaker 1: semi dome. What do we got here? You got another
Speaker 1: one from eleven hundred to the Baptism of Jesus from
Speaker 1: Daphney whatever that is. And I know we talked about
Speaker 1: this a bunch of times, but we do have the
Speaker 1: hams as well that I just wanted to show that
Speaker 1: that you do have an eye sometimes attached to that
Speaker 1: as well. And it's the hand sticking up and then
Speaker 1: we do have this one that can be used to
Speaker 1: go against it. The more hand symbolism. Something I do
Speaker 1: wanted to I did want to mention is with this
Speaker 1: hand symbolism where you see like them sticking the thumb
Speaker 1: out people and myself And now I'm wondering I was
Speaker 1: even gonna mention this earlier, but I figured I'd go
Speaker 1: again with the pineal gland on your thumb. A lot
Speaker 1: of people sometimes when they do their rituals, they will
Speaker 1: draw it like that, they'll draw it with their thumb
Speaker 1: sticking out. Never understood why. I don't think anybody I
Speaker 1: actually knew that didn't even knew why. They just kind
Speaker 1: of saw it done or whatever they're repeating it. For me,
Speaker 1: I just felt more comfortable, felt like I was actually
Speaker 1: drawing something. I don't know, fucking cares, who knows, you know,
Speaker 1: I just mind fucked myself into some reason believing to
Speaker 1: use that that gesture. So I didn't want to mention
Speaker 1: that one uh that we already have this head list
Speaker 1: did go over this before we got the hand of glory.
Speaker 1: We have that from fifteen sixty five. Another thing that
Speaker 1: you see pop up. You have the hand of glory
Speaker 1: holding a candle from the eighteenth century Grimore, the Petit Albert.
Speaker 1: I think that was something that immediate Lisa had even
Speaker 1: covered in older uh in older uh grimoires and the
Speaker 1: hand of Glory again, the seventeen twenty two Petit Albert
Speaker 1: describes in detail how to make a hand of glory
Speaker 1: as sighted from Emil Jews Grillow whatever, and it says
Speaker 1: you take the right you take the right or left
Speaker 1: hand of a felon who is hanging from a gibbet
Speaker 1: beside a highway, wrap it in part of a funeral
Speaker 1: pall and so wrapped, squeeze it well. Then put it
Speaker 1: into an earthenware vessel with zimat nitrate, salt and long peppers.
Speaker 1: The hole well powdered. Leave it in this vessel for
Speaker 1: a fortnight. Then take it out and expose it to
Speaker 1: a full sunlight during the dog days until it becomes
Speaker 1: quite Try if the sun is not strong enough, put
Speaker 1: it in an oven with fern and verveine. Next, make
Speaker 1: a kind of candle from the fat of a gibbage, felon,
Speaker 1: virgin wax, sesame and pony exactly sure where that is.
Speaker 1: And use the hand of glory as a candlestick to
Speaker 1: hold this candle when lightened. And then those in every
Speaker 1: place into which you go with this beautiful instrument cell
Speaker 1: remain motionless. Oh you got the philosopher's hand. There's even
Speaker 1: another one. Uh really, the crown on the thumb and
Speaker 1: the eclipse kind of well, that'd be a not necessary eclipse,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, the crescent moon cress.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody got an idea about what
Speaker 1: the thumb the thumb and the crowd could be I don't.
Speaker 4: But it's the crown of your head.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah right, they go back to
Speaker 1: your pineal gland again. Yeah yep, Kyle, wellk yeah close.
Speaker 1: I mean you're ganging up there, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because like the crown symbolizes uh, you know, the
Speaker 5: top part of the head, and then Christen is uh
Speaker 5: could be considered king God or whatever.
Speaker 1: Then we got the benediction sign. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: throw that in there. That's been linked to uh. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, Leasta, you probably explained it better, the whole benediction. No,
Speaker 1: you don't understand that actually, the whole thing with the
Speaker 1: benediction symbol and the problems with like the muscles and
Speaker 1: the fingers and stuff.
Speaker 3: No, I don't. I don't know why, but don't And
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they said something about having own a neuropathy, and
Speaker 1: they're like they actually had, like, but I don't know
Speaker 1: if I want to buy that. That's why they're making
Speaker 1: this is because their hands are actually fucked up. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know David Eis is that about his hands? Which
Speaker 1: that might be true. I mean we started doing art
Speaker 1: because they're hands like that I don't know.
Speaker 4: The hands.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, with the two fingers.
Speaker 4: Uh ship, that's where it comes from.
Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, yeah, it's the last two events. Yep.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 1: One other thing. Oh, you know, it's interesting somebody had
Speaker 1: mentioned before earlier too. Oh we're getting into hand symbals.
Speaker 1: I can't forget this, but somebody had mentioned it earlier.
Speaker 1: I guess what's a face throwing up that that handsign
Speaker 1: like this? I have suggested that I also sometimes do think.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could just be easy enough. That's the
Speaker 1: symbol of fire. But then uh oh there's also the
Speaker 1: oh god, at list again, what part of the brain
Speaker 1: is it where it's it turns into triangular.
Speaker 3: Paramoidal cells, and that's usually around the cerebral and amygdala
Speaker 3: prefrontal cortex. Sorry, yeah, so this is the whole perception
Speaker 3: that you have that that almost triangular shape of cells
Speaker 3: or concentration of them.
Speaker 1: Is that also the part that I think might be
Speaker 1: considered Amon's horn as well?
Speaker 3: Oh oh you're okay, sorry, yeah, that is going to
Speaker 3: be that not the CEREBELM goodness, I'm so sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that is what houses sit. It sits on top of
Speaker 3: the pineal and that is that is for a memory
Speaker 3: as well as cognition and like perception of like where
Speaker 3: you are, how you are, all that other stuff which
Speaker 3: basically feeds from the pineal as well, like orientation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that part of that part of the brain isn't
Speaker 1: like the rest of the body's basically done in hexagonal, right,
Speaker 1: and that one's done in like in the pyramid years.
Speaker 1: So I had wondered, I mean, maybe that's a stretch,
Speaker 1: but I have wondered if maybe that's why some people
Speaker 1: might put it up in that area. And then that
Speaker 1: reminded me. I know some people take this as six
Speaker 1: sixty six. I mean, my whole idea is sixty sixty
Speaker 1: six is a little bit different. But that made me
Speaker 1: think of six sixty six. And I have to say,
Speaker 1: for the YouTube listeners or the people viewing YouTube today,
Speaker 1: is our six hundred and sixty sixth video right now
Speaker 1: that you're watching. So patch yourself on the back. But
Speaker 1: uh uh and then uh tell, oh you know another
Speaker 1: thing too that's using uh ritual magic too, I mean
Speaker 1: the sign of silence. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's going back, if that is using your hand. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to bring that up. I mean that'll be
Speaker 1: brought up to you. Uh. In ritualistic work. From my experience,
Speaker 1: sometimes when you're done doing whatever you're doing at that
Speaker 1: that direction, what you've done, like whatever, bring your you
Speaker 1: bring your hand up, or you do it like that
Speaker 1: basically saying like I'm done. Or in the star Ruby,
Speaker 1: you will start off like that, standing in the middle
Speaker 1: before you do anything with your hand making the sign
Speaker 1: of silence and then swooping it down, you know, up
Speaker 1: up a Ponto's caka dominos. He's you know, sitting there
Speaker 1: and started off the ritual. But you actually start that
Speaker 1: ritual off with the sign of silence and like undoing
Speaker 1: it or something. I don't know, but interesting. Uh. I
Speaker 1: did want to bring that.
Speaker 3: Up, and then I wanted to I wanted to interject
Speaker 3: it's the hip of campus. Sorry for the people that
Speaker 3: are like relases has it completely wrong. It's the hippo
Speaker 3: campus and that is responsible for memory as well as learning.
Speaker 3: This is the part where you have spatial memory that
Speaker 3: we were talking about. This is where you merge short
Speaker 3: where you take short term memory into long term memory.
Speaker 3: So obviously learning and all that other stuff. It's the
Speaker 3: sea horse of the of the brain.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: I actually think in in Game of Thrones, whatever that
Speaker 1: next sequel was, I forgot the name of it, the
Speaker 1: House of Dragons or whatever. I think the first one
Speaker 1: was very heavily based on eyeball and brain shit. But
Speaker 1: in the second one, like they have like the Sea Horse,
Speaker 1: there's there's actually like a family that's related to the
Speaker 1: dragon people with the sea horse, And I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: fucking telling you that's brain shit. Yeah, it's just too coincidental.
Speaker 4: This one. You know what this is. It's called the
Speaker 4: fig It's a mildly obscene gesture that uses the thumb
Speaker 4: wedge between two fingers to ward off the evil eye,
Speaker 4: insult someone, deny, or request. It has been used at
Speaker 4: least since the Roman agents other in Europe and parts
Speaker 4: of the Mediterranean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think then you could use this
Speaker 1: as the same thing. I think he was saying too
Speaker 1: against the evil eye. Yeah yeah, all right, cool, all right,
Speaker 1: thank you? Uh all right? What else were you go here?
Speaker 1: What were you saying? Tim? You asked something?
Speaker 6: Right, I was just going to point out that from
Speaker 6: this angle, maybe it's just the angle of the camera,
Speaker 6: but this looks like a giant eyeball.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, there was in our Eyeball series, there was
Speaker 1: toms of domes that we showed on the churches and
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry, those things look like fucking eyeballs.
Speaker 1: There's even like some of the domes where it's almost
Speaker 1: like you even see them with the design is almost
Speaker 1: even like the layers that you'll see of what the
Speaker 1: corneers even like looks like it's like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: did you actually know that?
Speaker 3: The one in the eyeball thing that we did nick
Speaker 3: with Teresa the oculus and is it the pantheon? Please
Speaker 3: somebody correct me if I'm wrong, But the oculus is like,
Speaker 3: you know, we thought about, oh, it could be like
Speaker 3: the pupil. But then also when you showed the whole
Speaker 3: thumb with the crown where the crown goes when the
Speaker 3: baby is born, that area of where the crown is
Speaker 3: is super soft Umbertresa was talking about that and how
Speaker 3: like it's almost like the oculus of some of these
Speaker 3: Greek areas where Greek temples where it's open to that
Speaker 3: area which it's opened down into sorry, the hippocampus and
Speaker 3: into the final area.
Speaker 4: And Lisa, you bring up a very interesting point about
Speaker 4: that light. So if you look back at other animals
Speaker 4: that have evolved with the pineal gland, it's almost like
Speaker 4: a third eye that sticks up on top of their
Speaker 4: brains because it's taking in sunlight. And then as the
Speaker 4: brain is built on top of that base lizard level layer,
Speaker 4: that's when you have these other parts of the head
Speaker 4: coming in and that's the whole thing, you know, So
Speaker 4: the middle of the head really would be taking in
Speaker 4: a light, especially during the part of the you know
Speaker 4: time that the baby is, you know, youngest, because it's
Speaker 4: already a soft spot.
Speaker 1: That even makes uh doesn't it make almost like a
Speaker 1: y symbol too, the way it goes on top of
Speaker 1: the kid's head.
Speaker 4: I believe it does the way that it's fish together.
Speaker 3: Because essentially neonates are not blind, but they're there their
Speaker 3: retina issue is not fully formed, so yeah, they would
Speaker 3: need some sort of.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, they're called sagital sutures, and the sagital sutures
Speaker 4: on the the elongated skulls are different than on other humans.
Speaker 4: That's one of the indicators that they might not be
Speaker 4: the same species.
Speaker 2: I find this to be an incredible image neck just
Speaker 2: because it just reminds me so much of sons hicinography
Speaker 2: and really of course the eye. But you can see
Speaker 2: so much in it like that. You can see they
Speaker 2: put some good cabbala. They they they everything is has
Speaker 2: a meaning, every number, all the numbers of things, like
Speaker 2: the trees, like to have eight of them, that's very interesting.
Speaker 2: To have the lambs twelve of them, plus Jesus is thirteen.
Speaker 2: That's very interesting. To have the blue and the gold
Speaker 2: and the red and the green. It's all very interesting.
Speaker 2: Like it's like a it's a very They were obviously
Speaker 2: doing something very cool in the sixth century to have
Speaker 2: come up with this, because this is a very interesting
Speaker 2: image that obviously the later Church kind of forgot for
Speaker 2: a while.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, o, the art is actually rather interesting,
Speaker 1: especially inside. Yeah. I just I was kind of really
Speaker 1: stuck on that head in Providence thing. I really don't
Speaker 1: know much about it. I mean, I was even telling
Speaker 1: Hellas about that shit last week. I just yeah, because
Speaker 1: go for it, please.
Speaker 4: In the Old Testament, it was said that God came
Speaker 4: down from heaven and wrote mysterious writings on the walls
Speaker 4: of Babylon. It was like that hand of Providence motif
Speaker 4: perfectly illustrated as this. You know, God character made his
Speaker 4: hand visible so he could write with his finger on
Speaker 4: the wall in uh one of these courts. So it
Speaker 4: was like the invisible God made visible is in the
Speaker 4: shape of that hand.
Speaker 1: Mhm uh yeah, fucking hand. Oh yeah, I mean that much.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get that out of the way.
Speaker 1: There's definitely something up with that ship. Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 6: I mean that's with the hand coming out of the sky.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you showed like and I don't know, this is
Speaker 6: kind of Matt, you speak kind of dumb, but like
Speaker 6: there's a ninety Snails album cover from the album is
Speaker 6: called Year zero and it's got that it's got a
Speaker 6: hand coming out of the sky. I always wondered why
Speaker 6: he used that, but maybe it was like maybe it.
Speaker 2: Was like a not to some of this stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, that's a perfect example, right there, go for it.
Speaker 2: Well, just be really quick. I just wanted to tie
Speaker 2: in the version of Guadaloupe with the hand symbolism because
Speaker 2: it is the Holy Family with the Virgin of Guadalupe,
Speaker 2: the Holy Child, Saint Joseph, Saint Anne, and Saint Joaquin.
Speaker 2: So you have the five most powerful sort of like
Speaker 2: you could say, like the biblical lineage, all in your
Speaker 2: the palm of your hand, and so the wound there. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's also a stigmata, but it also has a very
Speaker 2: interesting significance when you study Saint Hey y I used
Speaker 2: to be very obsessed with this as a little kid, saying,
Speaker 2: heygar fees. So the idea is that blood is related
Speaker 2: to fire in the humor system. So as fire is
Speaker 2: the element of watching, it can also be depicted as
Speaker 2: an eye. So Nick was even saying in our in
Speaker 2: our group chat, he was like, well, I won't say exactly,
Speaker 2: but he said, there's a gash in the sky. And
Speaker 2: then I said, well, it could be a yoni, But
Speaker 2: what if it's also like this? What if it's also
Speaker 2: like a you know, the hand could also be the
Speaker 2: same thing. You can see it if just it depends
Speaker 2: on the shape like a vesca pisces kind of is
Speaker 2: it an eye or is it a hole?
Speaker 1: What is it.
Speaker 4: On the hand of Sabazios It has pisces directly in
Speaker 4: the middle of the palm, You know what I meant to?
Speaker 1: Oh, fuck, I really wish I would remember this shit.
Speaker 1: They'll remember because they were here except for Tim well
Speaker 1: you weren't either, and we had Ashton on. He did
Speaker 1: show like remember he showed like a vesca pisces at
Speaker 1: one point. The reason I mentioned in the chat earlier
Speaker 1: is that that gash in the sky is because that's
Speaker 1: actually one of the lines that was in liber three
Speaker 1: seventy And I just found it really weird that like
Speaker 1: he ends up like showing like even if you watch
Speaker 1: the video, it looks like the plane fulls flies into
Speaker 1: like what a gash or fucking bring a rip into
Speaker 1: fucking fabric? And I just found that really weird when
Speaker 1: gash and then I'm looking at the fucking yoni or whatever.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, but I wish I
Speaker 1: would have remember that then I would have brought that up.
Speaker 5: And you know what, I wanted to ask him, and
Speaker 5: I forgot to ask him, has he ever seen that
Speaker 5: show Manifest? Because that show Manifest reminds me a lot
Speaker 5: about that.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that, so I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4: I just had an interesting thought, what's up? If you
Speaker 4: look at the edges of the painting, it kind of
Speaker 4: looks like there's a yoni shape to the central figure.
Speaker 4: So is this depicting sort of like the birth of
Speaker 4: a child or reaching in to get a child out.
Speaker 4: And plus look at the place where Jesus is again,
Speaker 4: he's got the symbol of that pine cone right in
Speaker 4: the middle of your forehead. He's the child of the thumb.
Speaker 4: That's the pineal glamor.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: I do think the fish symbolism is really interesting in
Speaker 2: comparison because I think it actually does mean the same
Speaker 2: thing headless. I think that was a good inclination. I
Speaker 2: think it's about like the I think you can understand
Speaker 2: in two layers, probably more, but the way I understand
Speaker 2: it is in two. So it's like the transmutation of fish,
Speaker 2: the very magical, very out chemical act, the provision for thyself,
Speaker 2: and then also the trans sort of the transmutation into
Speaker 2: the Kingdom of the Sun, which is not necessarily the church.
Speaker 2: But it's also like in the morel resocrution sort of Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not gnaustic, but people might understand it as such.
Speaker 2: It's more the kingdom is in your heart, so you know,
Speaker 2: however you understand that. But I think it can be
Speaker 2: both things.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean there's the crossover there too, with the
Speaker 4: center of the palm and sort of like Mary touching
Speaker 4: her heart, you know, that whole sort of bleeding heart
Speaker 4: motifs and how to play into that palm center of
Speaker 4: the hand as well.
Speaker 2: Our Lady of Guadeloupe is pregnant as well, as Lisa
Speaker 2: has said, so she's not quite a mother yet. She's preconceptual,
Speaker 2: not preconceptual, but pre partum, so she's still generative and
Speaker 2: able to sort of like contain the heart of mercy.
Speaker 2: That would be maybe a very Catholic Rosicutian kind of
Speaker 2: way to think of it.
Speaker 4: And they call it the crown because of crowning, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: coming out through the.
Speaker 3: I don't know if y'all mention this, but y'all talk
Speaker 3: about the stigmata.
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I thought was very interesting,
Speaker 3: at least with some of these certain what I call
Speaker 3: them hall of famers in Catholicism, and they don't have
Speaker 3: to be Catholic. There has been some stigmatas that are
Speaker 3: not religious or that you know, have I guess a
Speaker 3: leaning towards but we only I've only heard of the
Speaker 3: ones that are. But basically it's the bleeding. It's a
Speaker 3: routine bleed or continuous bleeding from the palm of the
Speaker 3: hand to indicate the wounds of Christ sustained during crucifixion,
Speaker 3: which is oddly because you know, they said that there's
Speaker 3: no way that he could have been cruised through the
Speaker 3: hand because it would have just slipped through that. It
Speaker 3: probably was more through the wrist. But with these stigmatas,
Speaker 3: I know pad Bio suffered from that and it was
Speaker 3: a continuous bleeding from the hand and he would be
Speaker 3: giving mass, and there were people that would claim that
Speaker 3: they would see him bleeding from his poems. There were
Speaker 3: times that he bled so much that he had to
Speaker 3: take solace because how much blood he lost. But there
Speaker 3: is that, and it's supposed to indicate to be touched
Speaker 3: by the divine. And then the other thing is that
Speaker 3: whenever they do house relics or saint relics, a lot
Speaker 3: of one of the famous ones is the hand. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it reminded me that the image reminded me because that's
Speaker 3: what the that center bleeding thing is.
Speaker 4: I think that's a very good point. I think trances
Speaker 4: can program the body as well as the mind, and
Speaker 4: so having that state of mind can really produce things
Speaker 4: like this in the body as well as you know,
Speaker 4: spiritual influences, and that's that's a big part of it too.
Speaker 1: Something I actually wanted to ask you headless because I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if you were going to actually covered it
Speaker 1: or not, because I think this might have been what
Speaker 1: spurred your idea of the hand symbolism one of them. Uh,
Speaker 1: wasn't it like I was gonna bring it up, but
Speaker 1: I thought maybe you knew more about it, like in
Speaker 1: medieval times, didn't They used to kind of make like
Speaker 1: a hand, like almost like something you could wear actually,
Speaker 1: but it would be like remember you showed it. I
Speaker 1: think it was like almost like some made out of metal,
Speaker 1: like they were making like hands. So some guy made
Speaker 1: like his own hand, and then I think that you're
Speaker 1: going on something about like that whole thing. Do you know?
Speaker 4: That was a really interesting guy, right. This was the
Speaker 4: a mercenary German from from this part of Germany who
Speaker 4: who had the famous line, you know, like Misha Marsh
Speaker 4: and so Beethoven. It was either Beethoven or Bach who
Speaker 4: wrote a entire like symphony around this phrase, which means,
Speaker 4: you know, kiss my ass. And so he's he's famous
Speaker 4: for this and he also got his arm blown off
Speaker 4: by a cannon, and so he built himself a fully
Speaker 4: articulated metal arm that he could hold a sword with
Speaker 4: and it was magnetic in the palm and he was
Speaker 4: able to raise this thing and sort of command his troops.
Speaker 4: And he actually lived to a much older age than
Speaker 4: most mercenaries did back then, and you know, he died
Speaker 4: in his like seventies, which is kind of incredible for
Speaker 4: a guy who lived as rough as he did. And
Speaker 4: so later on the Nazis adopted this guy's name for
Speaker 4: their battalion, the uh I think it was the Waffing
Speaker 4: Grenaders or something like that. But the whole idea was,
Speaker 4: you know, he was this folk symbol from back then.
Speaker 4: And then if you look at this one manga called Berserk,
Speaker 4: you've got a German mercenary with a fully articulated metal
Speaker 4: arm that carries a massive sword around and cuts people
Speaker 4: in half of stuff.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: And so somehow before the Internet, this guy's writing this
Speaker 4: manga about sort of like this German mercenary that was
Speaker 4: already idealized by the by the Nazi Party and sort
Speaker 4: of became this folk symbol, you know. So it's it's
Speaker 4: a really funny connection because the guy had no connection
Speaker 4: to you know, this culture knew anything about it when
Speaker 4: he started making his character Guts, And the guy's name
Speaker 4: is God's von Berlichingen and Guts his name is Guts
Speaker 4: in the comic book series. So there's just all sorts
Speaker 4: of crossover and no real explanation for it.
Speaker 1: But like even back in medieval times too, I think
Speaker 1: they used to even used to like make like hand
Speaker 1: decoration things too, like that guy had as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking that story.
Speaker 6: I found a chart online. There's several of these charts
Speaker 6: and their Masonic hand gestures. It's very interesting. It's almost
Speaker 6: as if they could essentially carry out a conversation just
Speaker 6: using their hands, if any of this is correct. Becaus
Speaker 6: I was thinking about Nick earlier. You did something like
Speaker 6: this right like, you showed this appointing finger. I think,
Speaker 6: I don't know, maybe you were talking about something else,
Speaker 6: but you know this right here, right like. I look
Speaker 6: that up and it's like a G in sign language.
Speaker 6: So now I thought about the G and like the Masons,
Speaker 6: so I went and looked at the Mason handshart and
Speaker 6: this same hand gesture for the Masons means caution. It says,
Speaker 6: it means a indexing or caution. But then I found
Speaker 6: all these other interesting things that the Masons have, so
Speaker 6: it's almost like they have their own little type of sign.
Speaker 2: Language going on. Just don't what's this. Uh, let me
Speaker 2: see see if there's one for that.
Speaker 4: One of the most common. It's Mason in distress.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, so I see that.
Speaker 2: It says.
Speaker 1: That is this right?
Speaker 4: Wait, no, no, Mason, it's like this, you're doing the
Speaker 4: chi ball. That's Mason in distress.
Speaker 6: Well, so, I don't know what this is, but one
Speaker 6: of somebody's got that listed as as Buddha Patra Mundra
Speaker 6: Buddha Patra Mundra madra.
Speaker 4: That hands.
Speaker 6: So I don't know what that means, but.
Speaker 1: Do it again.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that.
Speaker 4: I think it has something to do with the chia ball, right,
Speaker 4: because as you're creating the energy that's used a lot
Speaker 4: in Tai Chi and other you know, Uasai Buddhist uh,
Speaker 4: you know, influenced stuff. So I don't know. I'm not
Speaker 4: at the expert in netfield.
Speaker 2: This is an ethan question, but Taoism and Buddhism can
Speaker 2: be conceptually treated as the same in my opinion. So
Speaker 2: someone gives you shit about it, just like Jen told me,
Speaker 2: install you Okay, so.
Speaker 4: I was looking forward to eat it because he knows
Speaker 4: all these mudras, you know, hands little. I know a
Speaker 4: little bit about the nijitsu hand signs, right. So they
Speaker 4: had their own system of mudras that they were supposed
Speaker 4: to use to get into calm states of mind. And
Speaker 4: so you have all these different mudras that these ninjas
Speaker 4: would use before going into battle as sort of like
Speaker 4: a I guess ch magic, right. And so they've got
Speaker 4: these different ones that kind of look like this, and
Speaker 4: other ones that kind of look like a dragon. Right.
Speaker 4: So the these different moodras are supposed to channel energy
Speaker 4: in different ways.
Speaker 2: The animal hand signals. If you watch Naruto, it explains
Speaker 2: this entire concept, like really, well, each hand sign is
Speaker 2: related to constellation. Also an animal with the zodiac, Yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly what Hella said. It unlocks that gate of energy
Speaker 2: chi you could say. And it also invokes the divine
Speaker 2: lightning strike from the goddess marshy ten. There's not always
Speaker 2: a goddess. Sometimes she's a god is she's kind of
Speaker 2: mythraic in that way, can be a god and sometimes
Speaker 2: a goddess not hermaphrodite. Just different people have different underset
Speaker 2: ways of looking at her. But in Buddhism we say
Speaker 2: it's a girl.
Speaker 4: I think it's just a really interesting way of casting spells.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: I'm sure that they had stuff like that in other places.
Speaker 4: And also we didn't even get into palmistry. I mean
Speaker 4: didn't Palmistry used to be the biggest form of divination forever.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: That's that's very mystic, that was huge for.
Speaker 1: A long time. Yeah, that's a good point too.
Speaker 4: I mean, your whole life mapped out on the palm
Speaker 4: of your hand, That's that's pretty important, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a lot of people, like I mean, they
Speaker 1: pretty much you know, adhered to that to un extend,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, kind of like how people
Speaker 1: are with astrology. They'll actually be like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: mercury is in retrograde grade retrogrades, no matter what, my
Speaker 1: life's fucked up, you know what I'm saying, Like you
Speaker 1: just you automatically already put you you know, into a structure.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, but like any system, I think you can you
Speaker 4: can maximize its you know, effectiveness, just by looking for
Speaker 4: the positive things and how to use those signals.
Speaker 1: Right. Uh, there was something else too, with another hand symbol.
Speaker 1: Is there any other hand signs? For some reason, I
Speaker 1: was thinking of one and escaped me. Now I can't
Speaker 1: remember that thousands yeah, I know, for some reason, I
Speaker 1: can't think of any right now.
Speaker 4: Jesus, what about that one? When did that one get popular?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: I mean that's that's pretty powerful, you know. I mean,
Speaker 4: if you're thinking about so this this represented erect fallus
Speaker 4: to the Greeks, right. The alternative was the fig, which
Speaker 4: represented the glitters. So yeah, the fig, Yeah, the erect
Speaker 4: Pallas and so these these ideas too. You've got sun
Speaker 4: and mood, male and female. All this duality is contained
Speaker 4: within the hands sign language. Do we even mention sign language?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, I wondered about that, but I was just like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know if that would like take us.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I want to see a mute person
Speaker 4: cast spells.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: That's kind of why I looked up the sun language chart,
Speaker 6: because I was wondering if there were any kind of
Speaker 6: connections between what we saw today and sign language.
Speaker 2: I didn't see many. They might be there, though, Did
Speaker 2: they even use.
Speaker 4: Sign it said? It was said that all the Native
Speaker 4: Americans had a type of sign language that went between
Speaker 4: all the different tribes, so they had their own languages,
Speaker 4: but they spoke at a common sign language between all
Speaker 4: the tribes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. It only works. It really only
Speaker 2: works between related ethno linguistic groups. So like if you're
Speaker 2: going from like Cree to Ojibway, which are related, or
Speaker 2: even like Ojibway to Abenaki or Menominee or all those
Speaker 2: ones on the East coast, you can do it because
Speaker 2: you have enough consonant value to ascribe like the symbols,
Speaker 2: like the right meaning to the right symbol. But when
Speaker 2: you're going away from like those dialoctical groups, your your
Speaker 2: language is too decoherent from each other, so it's not
Speaker 2: going to really make sense. But yeah, no, you're totally right, Headless.
Speaker 2: They did use a trading sign language, and it's actually
Speaker 2: it's not I wouldn't say it's hugely significant, but it's
Speaker 2: it's it's just something interesting is that they've as what
Speaker 2: Nick was saying, they didn't really have sign language because
Speaker 2: they've constantly reformed what sign language is like even until now.
Speaker 2: They keep updating it, changing words, adding words, just like
Speaker 2: we do in English, but it's more formal, so it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a language that's constantly never quite the same,
Speaker 2: like in it one generation, ten years, you could say
Speaker 2: it changes significantly.
Speaker 4: Well, I just think about the rivers and how they
Speaker 4: would speak to each other, you know, going up and
Speaker 4: down all these open waters, and to me, it's it
Speaker 4: says a lot about the different communities and how they
Speaker 4: related to each other. You know, there's there was some
Speaker 4: kind of a familial bond that you know, occurred back
Speaker 4: when they both spoke the same language and then diverted
Speaker 4: off from each other. I mean, there's just so many
Speaker 4: like images that you get from the different stories from
Speaker 4: the name of Americans that really ties into the ground
Speaker 4: that we're on that nobody really thinks about.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a notion too that some of the rock
Speaker 6: art is related in some type of way to assign
Speaker 6: sign language. And you know, I'm not an expert on that,
Speaker 6: but I do you find that that connection is very interesting.
Speaker 6: Like it's like coded, you know what I mean, It's
Speaker 6: like it's like double coded. At that point, you've got
Speaker 6: art based on sign language that's very cryptic, and.
Speaker 4: The ochre that they were using to put this stuff
Speaker 4: up has it faded in hundreds and hundreds of years.
Speaker 4: I mean that ochre doesn't usually last that long, so
Speaker 4: there was some other process for them to get it
Speaker 4: to stick like that.
Speaker 6: Well, that's that's the thing. They had, these methods.
Speaker 2: They were able to.
Speaker 6: Harden copper. They could they could take copper, which is
Speaker 6: you know, Malleable's part of its values that you can
Speaker 6: you can mold it to a shape. But then they
Speaker 6: were able to put it through some sort of process
Speaker 6: where they could take they could make this, they could
Speaker 6: make copper and the shape of tools and then harden
Speaker 6: the copper so the tools wouldn't break. So there was
Speaker 6: all kinds of alchemy going on copper, right.
Speaker 4: Hi Festus was this guy to blacksmith, and he was
Speaker 4: also part of these idea in Dactyls coming from you know,
Speaker 4: Mount Olympus. So it's like any tradesman, anybody who worked
Speaker 4: with their hands were sort of pushed into that same
Speaker 4: role of having this elevated status of being able to be,
Speaker 4: you know, among the people playing the games. So it
Speaker 4: was all part of their the religious culture.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the one that interests me and this is something
Speaker 6: I'd love to know more about. But the thought or
Speaker 6: the theory that they were putting copper on top of
Speaker 6: the mounds or some of their even even pyramids, because
Speaker 6: at one time Kahukia said to have at least one
Speaker 6: hundred pyramids up there right outside of Saint Louis. And
Speaker 6: you know, I've seen the idea thrown around by researchers
Speaker 6: that they were putting copper on top for some reason.
Speaker 6: So maybe there's some sort of a conductive element there
Speaker 6: that they were utilizing receive the lightning strike.
Speaker 2: It's a very literal but also very metaphysical way to
Speaker 2: describe like the same thing. Like what however you understand it? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think you're totally right t him. I think they
Speaker 2: would have put it like all the implements, you know,
Speaker 2: like the city in Florida's described as like having like
Speaker 2: the rods of gold and you know, nuts of pearls
Speaker 2: and like very it can be both metaphysical and material
Speaker 2: because it means something in both kinds of languages. So
Speaker 2: I think your inclination is totally right. Like every magician
Speaker 2: wants to ease and self into the well, pource himself
Speaker 2: into the experience with all the you know, shiny tools.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know there's there was an obelisk at
Speaker 6: Serpent Mound and they said that they removed it because
Speaker 6: it was getting struck by lightning constantly. And I'm wondering,
Speaker 6: if you know, was there something metaphysical to that, and
Speaker 6: you know, to the reason why, was it like charging
Speaker 6: the whole area or something.
Speaker 1: Just curious?
Speaker 4: Well, the IDs i ods created after a lightning striker
Speaker 4: hugely beneficial to the soil, so there is a fertility
Speaker 4: aspect of that.
Speaker 2: Well, it relates also to your idea of turquoise, Tim,
Speaker 2: is that the lightning can also be described as turquoise
Speaker 2: in quality, turquoise in color. It's because it's really clear,
Speaker 2: but it might appear to us as blue. The contours
Speaker 2: appear to us as blue, but it's really crystaline in
Speaker 2: its core, So it's like a diamond thunder matrix.
Speaker 1: You could say.
Speaker 2: So it's but that is can also be described as turquoise.
Speaker 2: It just depends on, you know, your cultural context. But
Speaker 2: most people would understand that, like a serious metaphysician would say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a similarity there. There's something that aligns with like
Speaker 2: lightning specifically and the color turquoise.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it reminds me of what was it I saw
Speaker 6: that there was some magicians were using I think it
Speaker 6: was wood from a tree that had been struck by lightning,
Speaker 6: and they were taking the wood and turning it into
Speaker 6: a wand and I guess the thought process there is
Speaker 6: that once the wood is struck by.
Speaker 2: Lightning, it's charged. It's charged. So this is a cemetery practice.
Speaker 2: I didn't know if I was going to bring this up,
Speaker 2: but it is really interesting since you did say it.
Speaker 2: So to get lightning struck like this is pretty universal
Speaker 2: as far as I understand, Like you see it in
Speaker 2: a lot of different systems of magic, and so lightning
Speaker 2: struck wood is the is like the lignum vita, right,
Speaker 2: especially if it's from specific, very specific kinds of wood.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because the kinds of wood seem to
Speaker 2: be relatively universal, like everybody has their outlier. In tropical
Speaker 2: countries kind of do their own thing, but the more
Speaker 2: temperate countries they prefer elder. Even in China, like a
Speaker 2: Taoist to forge a Daoist like a magic sword to
Speaker 2: expel ghosts, you have to get a lightning struck elder
Speaker 2: from the cemetery on a specific kind of moon alignment.
Speaker 2: It's like so specific. Yeah, and especially if the if
Speaker 2: someone is buried under it. It should be a first son.
Speaker 2: There's all these prescriptions, so it's like almost impossible to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: It's worst than getting like where they say you can
Speaker 1: get like a wand from a holly tree on a Wednesday.
Speaker 1: You got it off with one swoop.
Speaker 4: What are the odds that they might be using al
Speaker 4: chemical symbolism, so all of these things could relate to
Speaker 4: other things within like tcmors stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're definitely onto something headless like this is
Speaker 2: very doctrine of signatures. Even in Native American medicine will
Speaker 2: call it broadly. Look at Dan Mormon's book. He has
Speaker 2: a whole section on what he calls lightning medicine. Lightning
Speaker 2: medicine directly corresponds to what is also called horse medicine
Speaker 2: and what is also called wolf medicine. Those three things
Speaker 2: aren't necessarily the same diagnosis, but they're all interrelated. So
Speaker 2: they would treat like edema is a really like lightning signature,
Speaker 2: we would call it, so that is treated by the
Speaker 2: external application of elder bark onto the swollen elephant titus
Speaker 2: joints basically, and it would help drain out. It's a
Speaker 2: harsh purgative. You're when you're talking about the inner core
Speaker 2: of the wood. Now you know the berries and the flowers.
Speaker 2: That's totally fine, but it's a very strong purgative, so
Speaker 2: it really drains the water downwards. That's how it's considered.
Speaker 3: Anything to do with Native America. No, sorry, the Americas.
Speaker 3: That what you just said about the horse and the wolf.
Speaker 2: Absolutely so the horse medicine is agrimony, So it's for
Speaker 2: both external injuries like stress, muscle stress especially, and then
Speaker 2: wolf medicine would be for if you have very leaky gut,
Speaker 2: like if you have a camp fever malaria, which also
Speaker 2: can interestingly be treated with agrimony, which in kudo and
Speaker 2: also Native American sort of medicine systems is used to
Speaker 2: repel lightning. So again the Culpepper was right. The you know,
Speaker 2: the medicine and the poison there, you know, they're interrelated things.
Speaker 3: And the reason I ask is because I remember how,
Speaker 3: like we had discussed previously, how the oldest I believe
Speaker 3: in fossils, the oldest fossil remnants that you that we have,
Speaker 3: you know, at least on document comes from the Americas.
Speaker 3: So they believe that the point of origin for the
Speaker 3: equus species and for the canids originate in North America.
Speaker 3: In the Americas. Sorry, And so when you said Horace
Speaker 3: and Wolf, that immediately reminded me of that. And that's,
Speaker 3: you know, a little bit of a basis of my
Speaker 3: theory where I think that the point of origin for
Speaker 3: Homo sapiens maybe came from the Americas and we migrated westward,
Speaker 3: so because we followed them, because that's what the fossil
Speaker 3: record shows, is that the equus and the canine species
Speaker 3: moved westward rust that way.
Speaker 2: I mean that that I've been telling people this for years,
Speaker 2: is like I totally agree with you, Lisa, Like one
Speaker 2: hundred we'll say one hundred and ten percent, use a
Speaker 2: magic number, but yeah, I totally agree with you. Is
Speaker 2: that you know, like there are so people don't know this,
Speaker 2: but we have cactuses here not where necessarily where I live,
Speaker 2: but in the northern prairies. So the older name for
Speaker 2: them is actually horse cactus. A newer name for them
Speaker 2: is actually wolf cactus. So it's interesting because how are
Speaker 2: they named. Well, they're named for the shadow they cast
Speaker 2: in reflection to the light. So and you can see
Speaker 2: it like if you hold up like a torch or
Speaker 2: a flashlight. Even at night, they actually kind of look
Speaker 2: like a horse's shadow or a dog shadow. So I
Speaker 2: always realize this as a kid, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't really make sense, this introduction of horses, because
Speaker 2: how would they the planes were only settled in the
Speaker 2: seventeen hundred, it wouldn't even make sense. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: totally with you. And even in Creed the word for
Speaker 2: a horse is big dog or big wolf sometimes, so
Speaker 2: there's an interrelationship between those things and how they're understood
Speaker 2: to like appear in the world. And maybe it you know,
Speaker 2: the dog and the wolf. Yes, different obviously, especially in
Speaker 2: topic iconography, but there's an inter relationship. And you can
Speaker 2: say always associated with lightning, horses always always associated with
Speaker 2: at least the sound of lightning or that nay. Sometimes
Speaker 2: in tounch we'll say that horse's nae is right. So yeah,
Speaker 2: they're all interrelated things. And I agree with you that
Speaker 2: we I don't think we quite understand our origin. I
Speaker 2: didn't mean to go on a New World tangent, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm very pro New World.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. One thing I wanted to interject it is
Speaker 3: about the hand, but it's not related to occultism is
Speaker 3: that fingerprints on the hand they are unique to each
Speaker 3: individual person. And one of the things that I wanted
Speaker 3: to mention bes I don't know if a lot of
Speaker 3: people know this is with identical twins. No, two identical
Speaker 3: twins have the exact same fingerprint, even though they have
Speaker 3: the same DNA relatively. Yeah, So designed to insert that there, No.
Speaker 4: I think you're on to something. I mean, think about
Speaker 4: why palmistry makes sense is because you've got something individual
Speaker 4: to you on each one of your fingers, So why
Speaker 4: wouldn't you have more about your life going on in
Speaker 4: the rest of your hands. And so I also wanted
Speaker 4: to bring up the Mississippian hand eye symbol. Right, So
Speaker 4: if you follow doctor Greg Little on Twitter, you're always
Speaker 4: seeing these cut out of bronze down in the Mississippian culture.
Speaker 4: So these were in the mounds, as this hand eye
Speaker 4: symbol is basically ubiquitous all over the Mississippian culture. So
Speaker 4: I thought that was important too, because there you go,
Speaker 4: that's that hand symbolism popping up again.
Speaker 6: Hey Jesus know what mound or what area that one
Speaker 6: was was found. I'm just curious. That's pretty well well Mississippians.
Speaker 6: We're central to around Saint Louis, Right, they had a
Speaker 6: bunch of mound sites around there and big old platforms
Speaker 6: that were eventually bulldozed and used for other things. But
Speaker 6: I think there are still a couple of mounds.
Speaker 4: But that's the Mississippians were way pre Columbus, so they
Speaker 4: didn't ever have any interactions with the Europeans later on,
Speaker 4: but who knows if there was influences before them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so that was Do you think that that symbol
Speaker 6: was found at you know, Kahokia, perhaps Monks Mound or
Speaker 6: Coke Mound.
Speaker 4: I think they were related. I'd have to look out
Speaker 4: the exact dates.
Speaker 2: Now either way.
Speaker 6: That's super interesting And like I like doctor greg Little's
Speaker 6: work a lot, and I've been wanting to know more
Speaker 6: about that because I've seen that, right, I've seen those
Speaker 6: images with the hand with the eye in it. I
Speaker 6: just I really want to look more into where those
Speaker 6: were found.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 4: Just follow his account. He's always posting that stuff and
Speaker 4: where it can be found and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2: There's a great book that I've referenced before, but it's
Speaker 2: Jason Berry. He wrote a book on Blackhawk who's a
Speaker 2: spiritualist saint from Wisconsin. He talks about the Mississippian snake cult,
Speaker 2: how there was parts of African, European indigenous and so,
Speaker 2: and probably a lot of the Christian snake handling actually
Speaker 2: comes from more like that than it does from a
Speaker 2: biblical source. I'm not saying they never did it in like,
Speaker 2: you know, the Middle East, but I think that, yeah,
Speaker 2: it probably has more Americanized roots than maybe people are
Speaker 2: comfortable with.
Speaker 4: This is what I keep talking about about meditating on
Speaker 4: this hand to Sabazios because you know, again it's snake
Speaker 4: handling right there, and snake handling. There's something about these
Speaker 4: two symbols. They go together. And you see it in Ophiucas, right,
Speaker 4: he's the snake handler, He's got these other things. There's
Speaker 4: something about hand symbolism and snakes that kind of go
Speaker 4: along together.
Speaker 6: There's there's a hand signal with the eye on it
Speaker 6: that is Hebrew in origin. It's called Hamza. And I
Speaker 6: think maybe the air the air version is the hand
Speaker 6: of Fatima.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think I had the I just didn't
Speaker 1: really say much about it. I'll bring it up for you.
Speaker 4: Go for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you got it. Oh, no, not much.
Speaker 6: It's just that I'm I looked it up to Sakonda
Speaker 6: refresh from my memory on it, and it's saying that
Speaker 6: it was a palm shaped ambulant that was used in
Speaker 6: North Africa even and of course in the Middle East.
Speaker 6: So and some of the people were using it as
Speaker 6: a guard against the evil eye. Let's see what did
Speaker 6: they actually say here, hams has been traditionally believed to
Speaker 6: provide defense against the evil eye.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the change it depending on which way
Speaker 1: it is. It also makes differences to I've heard that
Speaker 1: the fingers a down.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's an inverted version.
Speaker 2: Yeah Turkish, no exactly what, but it is called actual
Speaker 2: gem and uh okay.
Speaker 6: So early use of this can be traced back to
Speaker 6: ambulance associated with the goddess in an ari ishtar. That's
Speaker 6: very interesting.
Speaker 2: It always goes back to the star goddess. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the Himalayan story. Tara is the star, that's what
Speaker 2: her name means. So I totally agree with you, tim
Speaker 2: A start a far. I'm not saying they're all the same,
Speaker 2: but they're they're all interrelated.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Or Aphrodite is another name here, it's used it seems
Speaker 6: like it's like, oh, the same symbol if you look
Speaker 6: at but in different cultures it's the it's a different
Speaker 6: name for a similar goddess.
Speaker 4: This one's wrist has been punched This one's wrist has
Speaker 4: been punched out. But normally there's supposed to be a
Speaker 4: woman nursing a baby inside of the wrist part right
Speaker 4: there on that hand to Sabazios. Yeah, right there in
Speaker 4: the cave, she's supposed to be nursing the young god
Speaker 4: Sabazios before he can rise up to his higher form.
Speaker 4: It's all in there, dude. It's so crazy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know that this in particular could just well,
Speaker 6: what if here this is just a big one. If
Speaker 6: this this hand the eye in the hand symbol going
Speaker 6: back to these Mediterranean roots and Hebrew even it's like
Speaker 6: that could have something to do with this theory that
Speaker 6: there were Hebrew people over here before.
Speaker 2: Columbus, well before Columbus.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: I'm looking at a location in Tennessee right now that
Speaker 6: I'm researching where there is a wall. It's one of
Speaker 6: these rock walls that's underground, similar to the one out
Speaker 6: in Texas, but people have dug it up. I found
Speaker 6: a couple of people who have dug it up. They
Speaker 6: claimed that there were Hebrew symbols on the wall, and
Speaker 6: then there's other Hebrew artifacts. If you look at the
Speaker 6: Back creekstone that was found here in Tennessee, it was
Speaker 6: found really close to an old Cherokee city, but it
Speaker 6: had Hebrew on it, Paleo Hebrew.
Speaker 4: So, Paleo Hebrew. That's that's the key right there. Pale
Speaker 4: so that's Phoenician. Paleo Hebrew is Phoenician.
Speaker 6: Right, So this kind of looks like it might be
Speaker 6: a part of that whole Phoenician thing. The Phoenicians in
Speaker 6: North America potentially.
Speaker 4: Yes, are all over it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and what if those were the people who had
Speaker 6: what if they were the ones who built the.
Speaker 4: Mounds or you know, probably had some sort of inspiration. Again,
Speaker 4: it's like this cultural diffusion idea. You know, they're taking
Speaker 4: these ideas and they're using it the way that their
Speaker 4: values and everything else works. So you see a lot
Speaker 4: of inspiration, but they make it their.
Speaker 2: Own well, to bring it back maybe to the primordial
Speaker 2: to the hand symbolism, like maybe in its primordial nature,
Speaker 2: this is white Tara, so she's associated with the North
Speaker 2: Star or North and she has the eye on exactly
Speaker 2: on her palm, and she's actually dispensing the gesture of
Speaker 2: boon giving so very interesting, meaning that she can grant
Speaker 2: anything within the three worlds. That's what they say. So
Speaker 2: it's very had a chance. But it's up to you.
Speaker 2: That's the difference with Buddhism. It's it's up to you.
Speaker 2: You have to you have to decide you're going to
Speaker 2: do it or not. You have to get up there yourself.
Speaker 3: Talking about doing it yourself and free will reminds me.
Speaker 3: And then we're talking about the hand, reminds me of
Speaker 3: the painting by Michelangelo Creation of Adam where God has
Speaker 3: his finger fully outstretched and Adam's finger is not and
Speaker 3: there is a gap between the two fingers. A lot
Speaker 3: of people have and Michaelangel goes on to say that
Speaker 3: it was to indicate the moment in Genesis when God
Speaker 3: gives the spark of life to man or Adam rather.
Speaker 3: But what's interesting is that you would think that he
Speaker 3: because Michael Angel was so precise and so detail oriented,
Speaker 3: and he was a practiced anatomous, He was a closeted anatomius.
Speaker 3: He would go and dig up bodies and do autopsies
Speaker 3: and what have you. So he knew the human body
Speaker 3: very very I mean he goes on to create the
Speaker 3: David and he even molds you know that muscle within
Speaker 3: the forearm when you know you're lifting a specific finger.
Speaker 3: So he knew specifically everything about the hand. And yet
Speaker 3: he paints a painting with Adam having a non outstretched finger,
Speaker 3: and so to me and a lot of scholarship indicated
Speaker 3: that Michael Langego Michelangelo was indicating that the non outstretched
Speaker 3: finger of Adam is indicating free will, is indicating it's
Speaker 3: there if you want it, you just have to reach
Speaker 3: for it. You'd have to strive for it, and indicated
Speaker 3: by the gap. So to build upon what Jen was saying,
Speaker 3: and then the hand.
Speaker 2: Absolutely agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well see even like stuff I've said that
Speaker 1: I know in some ways, I guess like getting like religious.
Speaker 1: But you know, God, let's say I have to go
Speaker 1: back towards it. It's not coming towards me. So I
Speaker 1: can see that I have to make the decision. I
Speaker 1: have that experience. I have to actually make you do
Speaker 1: the work to make that happen.
Speaker 6: Like that.
Speaker 1: Uh, what else about this Jid is that is that
Speaker 1: a nipple showing that.
Speaker 2: Is then I didn't mean to choose it for that,
Speaker 2: but then as soon as you pulled it up, I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm the next gonna love this.
Speaker 6: So but.
Speaker 2: You know what it's it's just extremely important. I think
Speaker 2: it's uh, it's it's so outer. Contra would say it's
Speaker 2: a symbol of her infinite mercy that she can produce
Speaker 2: the milk, but it's really a metaphor for like the
Speaker 2: nourishing of mankind, like Lisa was saying, like there's a
Speaker 2: wisdom process, a dialectical process with yes, you can describe
Speaker 2: it in like the biochemical mechanisms in the body. That's
Speaker 2: totally legitimate and that happens. But then there's also like
Speaker 2: maybe like what you talk about, Nick, there's like these
Speaker 2: while that's happening, so at the same time, there's like
Speaker 2: other layers happening in your consciousness. So maybe they work together.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's like the secret sauce that like people have
Speaker 2: a hard time putting you know, all together at one time.
Speaker 2: Is like to get to that a special state like
Speaker 2: you know easily or they're like readily. So I think
Speaker 2: that what I like about this image in particular, for
Speaker 2: our Obviously, Headless is great topic on hand symbolism. I
Speaker 2: like it because it's exactly what you said, Nick Nless.
Speaker 2: It's about free will. It's ultimately like up to people
Speaker 2: how they want to perceive reality. And that's also what
Speaker 2: as I said, what Tara means. She's very associated with
Speaker 2: this idea of loving kindness or Bodi cheetah, and so
Speaker 2: I think, like, how do you want to be in
Speaker 2: the world. That's what it kind of says to me.
Speaker 2: It's like, do you want to focus on the primordial
Speaker 2: truth or do you want to you know, play in
Speaker 2: the great carnal ground.
Speaker 4: That actually brings up the monkeys paw. It's the paw
Speaker 4: that grants you wishes, right, And so there's there's some
Speaker 4: kind of an aspect of that too. It's like, this
Speaker 4: is the free will that you have. You can grant
Speaker 4: these you can get these wishes, but it may come
Speaker 4: back and bite you in the ass. You know, the
Speaker 4: things that you think you want might not be that
Speaker 4: at all.
Speaker 1: Tarn that thank you, Oh Jim, Do you have anything
Speaker 1: else on this one?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: No, But I do like that she has her third eye.
Speaker 2: I think that ties in to everything that we like
Speaker 2: everyone said tonight, And I think it is about perception.
Speaker 2: It's like, that's really what matters. That's what I've really
Speaker 2: learned in the last couple of months, like podcasting with
Speaker 2: you guys, and you know, on my own show as well.
Speaker 2: But obviously in synthesis we do such interesting work, I think,
Speaker 2: but I've really learned that perception really matters, and it
Speaker 2: really matters like the story you tell and how you
Speaker 2: tell it.
Speaker 1: Well very well said. Did anybody else have anything that
Speaker 1: they wanted to add?
Speaker 4: I learned a lot from you guys about this stuff.
Speaker 5: I took a lot of notes, you know, I always say,
Speaker 5: you know, similism plays a major part in our communication,
Speaker 5: and when you stick to the origins of the simbolism,
Speaker 5: you don't have all these different narratives that people are
Speaker 5: trying to create.
Speaker 1: Oh you know another thing too, I thought of with
Speaker 1: the whole. I mean, I don't think it's why people
Speaker 1: do this, but that is a thing that you will
Speaker 1: do in the Maybe this is ruby I'm getting confused,
Speaker 1: but I think you actually, oh no, maybe, yeah, Like
Speaker 1: people normally go like that and then we like when
Speaker 1: they charge the corners, they make that handsomeone kind of
Speaker 1: projected out jay Z does that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 3: That was also the one of the movements for the
Speaker 3: series The OA.
Speaker 1: Yo, there was movements in the OA that I actually
Speaker 1: thought leg it was from the Exagrammars Ritual. It was like,
Speaker 1: looks like that added with a whole bunch of other
Speaker 1: ship that's a.
Speaker 4: Little weirdy did the side of silence?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yo, yo, you remember, Yo? You covered that on
Speaker 1: the fuck You Cover that shiit a long time ago?
Speaker 1: Holy shit, Yo. That was fun too because I had
Speaker 1: just recently watched it. Yeah, and you told me you
Speaker 1: want to talk about the OA, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: fuck yeah, just watched that ship. That ship was wild.
Speaker 1: You know that she would be interesting to cover. That
Speaker 1: ship is so deep that show.
Speaker 4: There is so much in there. It's just it's crazy,
Speaker 4: layer upon layer of stuff that you can pull out
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, there's actually a no no you go, uh no,
Speaker 2: there's a There's another great show called The Magicians.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: It is very hipster, millennial and a little annoying sometimes,
Speaker 2: but their magic system uses hand sigils. It's predicated on
Speaker 2: that kind of the Eastern ideas of mudras and like
Speaker 2: pathworking through the hands, but there's also other processes, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of they use a very syncretic way that
Speaker 2: they kind of imagine magic for the camera. So from
Speaker 2: a magician's perspective, it's actually a really cool series. Like, yes,
Speaker 2: annoying characters aside, they you know, they they play with time,
Speaker 2: they play with space, they play with spirits, but they're
Speaker 2: not really religious, they're just magicians. So it's it's a
Speaker 2: very interesting series and it's also a book if people
Speaker 2: are interested. I'm not plugging it because I'm friends of them.
Speaker 2: I just think it's good.
Speaker 4: I think it's got a lot of high camp factors
Speaker 4: and there's so many different reference is in there that
Speaker 4: make it kind of funny if you know what you're
Speaker 4: looking at, because again they do reference a whole lot
Speaker 4: of different systems and magic outside of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see, this is the thing we can totally agree
Speaker 2: on this Headlics is that that is a great series
Speaker 2: and it's very millennial, very of that time. But it's
Speaker 2: a perfect encapsulation of like I think, interesting in modern
Speaker 2: ideas about magic, and it's not so contained in like
Speaker 2: crazy ritual performance. It's it's like, yeah, there's a chaos
Speaker 2: magic kind of maybe flavor to the whole thing. It's like,
Speaker 2: how can we problem solve?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean that whole series on that mythical island
Speaker 4: that they went to inside of the C. S. Lewis novel,
Speaker 4: that was just yeah, I mean that was so on
Speaker 4: the nose. They had so many different references from my
Speaker 4: childhood right there, and all these lion, the witch and
Speaker 4: the wardrobe type references.
Speaker 2: It's the inversion of the C. S. Lewis story in
Speaker 2: a funny way, right like, because it's a it's camp,
Speaker 2: but it's violent when they go to the C. S.
Speaker 2: Lewis world. Those people aren't nice. It's not like little gnomes.
Speaker 2: It's like the gnomes will eat your face, so you know,
Speaker 2: and I mean that's what I mean. It happens so
Speaker 2: many characters die and die in horrific ways, so it's
Speaker 2: a it's a very interesting show just from that perspective.
Speaker 2: And then sometimes they even get resurrected.
Speaker 1: Right face right off. Can't trust the motherfuckers.
Speaker 3: Just real quick. Sorry. The two things, there are certain
Speaker 3: primates that cannot fully extend their index finger. So that
Speaker 3: made me also think about like maybe week oh that
Speaker 3: was their thing so if you read the Book of Genesis,
Speaker 3: it mentions that God created trees to eat from or
Speaker 3: fruit that would bear fruit to eat from. And when
Speaker 3: you look at primate diet, primates are predominantly frugivores, predominantly
Speaker 3: frugi wars. And so then you have the talk of
Speaker 3: fall of man. And then when you look at I
Speaker 3: guess the fossil record the moment that man started consuming
Speaker 3: animal flesh, you have the growth of the prefrontal cortex
Speaker 3: and all that other stuff. And then you have this
Speaker 3: painting where maybe you have an index finger that is
Speaker 3: unable to be stretched out because of anatomical differences, you know,
Speaker 3: within the primate taxa. But then you have a movement
Speaker 3: of progression in the Homo sapien line that you were
Speaker 3: able to stretch out that finger and touch the finger
Speaker 3: of God because you've now moved into that evolutionary state
Speaker 3: of consciousness. Because remember God's encapsulated in the brain.
Speaker 5: So what's that famous art piece that's in the ceiling
Speaker 5: that has the touching guys.
Speaker 3: It's called Creation of Atom by Michael Angelo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I was at it, I have mentioned this before.
Speaker 1: When I was at the Vatican, they said that they
Speaker 1: actually to acknowledge that that's the brain. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: all right, okay, I mean you know I thought that anyway,
Speaker 1: but I was like, all right, right. It was a
Speaker 1: little bit surprised actually to hear that. Yeah, they're even
Speaker 1: like go ahead, sorry, go ahead, no, I talk for sure.
Speaker 4: I find more tracing boards with that hand of Providence
Speaker 4: in it, but I can't really find them anymore in
Speaker 4: my mind. That's a strong association, you know, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you see those things like every once in a while,
Speaker 4: and know I'll notice them like on like a video
Speaker 4: like I'm watching, like on something that's not even on
Speaker 4: that topic.
Speaker 1: I'll just see the fucking hand like in the painting
Speaker 1: that they're showing, and I'm like, oh, there's that fucking
Speaker 1: hand again, Like what was what's up with that motherfucker?
Speaker 1: But uh, it's like the hand from a oh god,
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I was a scream or whatever with
Speaker 1: Chris Elliotts sticking his hand in the fucking mashed potatoes,
Speaker 1: just got that fucked up all. He'd be like one
Speaker 1: of those coming down from this. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I even want to fucking reach out for that one.
Speaker 4: I was thinking Operation Blue beard a giant.
Speaker 1: Look at that.
Speaker 6: You gotta check out that nine inch Nails album cover. Man,
Speaker 6: I'm telling you because they were even saying that whenever
Speaker 6: Resner put that album out that he was somehow alluding
Speaker 6: to the coming disclosure UFO disclosure movement. But that's the
Speaker 6: that's the album cover. It's like it looks like a
Speaker 6: real giant hand of God coming out of the sky.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, all right.
Speaker 1: I guess, uh, I guess we'll wrap it up the uh.
Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of ship right there, a lot
Speaker 1: of I plug themselves again on the shows or whoever
Speaker 1: they want to promote. We'll start it off with you,
Speaker 1: Lisa again. They called reject mad scientist what is going only?
Speaker 1: So thank you very much for joining us tonight show.
Speaker 3: Thank you had for bringing up the amazing topic to
Speaker 3: bring us all together in this wonderful panel where we
Speaker 3: just converse and commune among ourselves with the topic. Thank
Speaker 3: you fellow rejects for allowing me to interject my weird stuff.
Speaker 3: But thank you Neix for inviting me to plug is
Speaker 3: only a cult research Institute dot org And if you'd
Speaker 3: like to find me, it's so lease.
Speaker 4: Lisa.
Speaker 1: Thank you awesome. Thank you very much. Appreciate you enjoying
Speaker 1: us and we got you the ninja.
Speaker 2: Thank you boss for tolerating meat tonight. And I know
Speaker 2: it was quite a talkative, but I made up for
Speaker 2: all those times where I was quiet.
Speaker 1: Were third eyes and nipples I can't combine.
Speaker 2: Okay, well that's guy. You liked it, so thank you
Speaker 2: so much, Lisa. I don't think it's weird. I think
Speaker 2: it's super interesting. I love that we can talk about
Speaker 2: plants and biology, Tyrone. I'm always in all of how
Speaker 2: much you know ag on fire tonight for real and Tim. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I love that we have that kind of dynamic that
Speaker 2: we I tease you a little and you kind of
Speaker 2: push back. It's really great. Honestly, I think it's interesting.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much. It's a true honor to
Speaker 2: be with the panel. And if you want to check
Speaker 2: me out Threshold Saints and the Great Lodge. And we
Speaker 2: do have a YouTube channel now run by.
Speaker 1: Mister Okay, that all right? Nice? You can have to
Speaker 1: give me the link for that, I'll include it. Do
Speaker 1: you have it on you have a link tree? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I have a link tree is yeah?
Speaker 1: Is it on there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I have to put it on. I've been really
Speaker 2: bad about updating it. Will I promise, I will, I promise,
Speaker 2: I will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it, of course. And then we uh,
Speaker 1: we got iron what's going on?
Speaker 2: I think, thank you.
Speaker 5: I appreciated Agent for those kind words.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: This is a good discussion.
Speaker 5: I learned a lot, took some notes down. It's always
Speaker 5: a good day when you learn something. You know, that
Speaker 5: was saying you learned something new every single day. So
Speaker 5: this was the day that I definitely learned a lot
Speaker 5: because of these three discussions that we had today. So
Speaker 5: my mind is kind of bloomed, but I enjoyed every
Speaker 5: moment of that. I love talking to you guys. I
Speaker 5: enjoyed this a lot. This is a passion of mine
Speaker 5: of learning as much as I can about everything. And
Speaker 5: of course, everything that you can find on me is
Speaker 5: on my website, Rebirth of theWord dot com. I have
Speaker 5: you know, YouTube, Twitter and all that other stuff, but
Speaker 5: that's all through my website. You can go in there
Speaker 5: and find that. I also have a best selling book,
Speaker 5: Journey through the Origins of History, and I appreciate everybody
Speaker 5: that put their knowledge out there.
Speaker 2: So I can gain it from them.
Speaker 1: Thank you, of course, thank you, sir. Appreciate it and
Speaker 1: we gotta have actually do Tim Constantine, please, sir, everybody
Speaker 1: know what's uping?
Speaker 6: Hey, yeah, very enlightening, happy to be here, happy to
Speaker 6: learn some stuff today. Sixth Censory Podcast is my main gig.
Speaker 6: Six spell it out among all the major platforms. And yeah,
Speaker 6: appreciate the invite.
Speaker 1: Oh of course, thank you, sir. I appreciate it. And
Speaker 1: hell is John. Thank you very much for the topic.
Speaker 1: It was a fun one. It was very interesting. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: there's like so many different places we can still go
Speaker 1: with that. Honestly, with that topic, so many different things.
Speaker 1: But thank you again, and please let everybody know where
Speaker 1: they can find your amazing show and where to send
Speaker 1: those weird dreams.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Nick. This is a great topic. I love
Speaker 4: going into all these different things and having all these
Speaker 4: different sources of knowledge that I'll weave back together again,
Speaker 4: which is one of the major things that I want
Speaker 4: to get across about hand symbolism. It's fractal, it's gonna
Speaker 4: spread out, and it's everywhere. So this is partially why
Speaker 4: it's so important in the sensory homunculous. Right, if you
Speaker 4: think about what it looks like inside of your brain.
Speaker 4: You've got the huge face, you've got these giant hands, right.
Speaker 4: The hands are almost bigger than the brain area, right,
Speaker 4: Because the whole idea is you've got to experience the
Speaker 4: world in a tactile way. And that's what really gets
Speaker 4: the hands as this powerful symbol because it's like this
Speaker 4: other sense, the more we get online and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: the less we're using our hands, and the less we
Speaker 4: think with our hands. And that's sort of like, I guess,
Speaker 4: a lack in that balance. You know, you've got to
Speaker 4: get back into nature. You got to use your hands.
Speaker 4: You got to be like hy Festus, you know, make something,
Speaker 4: play sports, do something with your hands. That's part of
Speaker 4: your brain, that's part of your mental health, you know.
Speaker 4: So hand symbolism is important for that very reason. It
Speaker 4: goes into all those aspects of our lives. So you
Speaker 4: can find me at Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot
Speaker 4: com if you want to get those stories into me
Speaker 4: for Thursdays when I read your emails. And also you've
Speaker 4: got the Trialogues which is tomorrow with Ethan and Ricardo.
Speaker 4: So thank you very much for having me. Thank you
Speaker 4: for this panel. I think a lot of people had
Speaker 4: good time. And man I look forward tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, no, thank you very much, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's Up. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of people here and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you made a good point. I can't believe we forgot
Speaker 1: the fucking homoculous with its big hands. Oh man, see
Speaker 1: that's it again. That's another whole thing to talk about. Uh.
Speaker 1: When you said that, I was like, fuck nice. Uh
Speaker 1: yeah again, thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's Up.
Speaker 1: Had a good show, and thank you everybody that was
Speaker 1: there from the beginning to the end pretty much. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody's still there. That's what's up. And thank you Wolf
Speaker 1: for spending the time to come on tonight, and everybody
Speaker 1: was here all day. I appreciate that. That's what's up.
Speaker 1: And until the next one, everybody be well later.