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<v Speaker 1>Coming to you from the dining room table at East

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<v Speaker 1>Barbary Lane, we bring you a special episode of Full

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<v Speaker 1>Circle the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr.

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<v Speaker 1>And I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest today.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a wonderful artist, author, performer and all around

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<v Speaker 1>fierce diva. She has written a wonderful book called The

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<v Speaker 1>Queen Bees of Tybee County. Kyle Casey Chu, Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the Full Circle Table.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for that illustrious open It is

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<v Speaker 2>a pleasure to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>I am so glad to sit here with you because

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<v Speaker 1>I just finished the book. First of all, the cover

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<v Speaker 1>is so adorable, great.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't you love it? I do?

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<v Speaker 1>And you know I'm looking at I was looking at

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<v Speaker 1>the cover art after I finished the book, and I

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<v Speaker 1>caught all the little references in the story in the

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<v Speaker 1>art work.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, Okay, that's just so clever. Some work

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<v Speaker 2>of Jay Yang, who is such an angel and genius.

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<v Speaker 1>Wonderful work.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, this book is a delightful read.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was telling Martha, was like, every time I

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<v Speaker 1>sit down and open this book, I just inhale fifty

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<v Speaker 1>pages and don't realize what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>I love to hear that.

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<v Speaker 1>So, first of all, tell me a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>what The Queen Bees of Tybee County is about.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, so, Hello, I am Kyle Casey to aka panthera

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<v Speaker 2>do'l say. I am a writer, a filmmaker, and one

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<v Speaker 2>of the founding queens of Drag Story Hour, which I

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<v Speaker 2>definitely want to. Oh, you should come. It's a good time.

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<v Speaker 2>They're space panning their bubbles. Sometimes there's pizza. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>look abe and The Queen Beees of Tybee County is

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<v Speaker 2>my debut middle grade novel, and it is about Derek

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<v Speaker 2>Cham who is a seventh grade Chinese American basketball star

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<v Speaker 2>who is shipped off to his grandma's house in rural Georgia,

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<v Speaker 2>where he explores his square identity, his love for drag,

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<v Speaker 2>and his Chinese a Chinese American heritage through participating in

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<v Speaker 2>a local pageant.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go, And that is the the encapsulated version.

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<v Speaker 1>But is so it's such a wild journey, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>such a heartwarming journey and relatable. I think any queer

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<v Speaker 1>person can relate to so many elements of this story.

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<v Speaker 1>So how much of your personal history is in this?

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<v Speaker 1>In Derek in any of the characters.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wanted to give my character an experience that

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<v Speaker 2>I had and experience that I didn't have. And so

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of my own childhood and upbringing is infused

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<v Speaker 2>into the story through the adult figures who encourage me

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<v Speaker 2>to read and encourage me to be fabulous and explore makeup,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as a playing basketball, which is something that

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't done and a skill set that I actually

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<v Speaker 2>don't have. And so I find a lot of my

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<v Speaker 2>own father and Derek's father. I find a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the English teachers who nurtured me in my creative voice,

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<v Speaker 2>and Claudia and bits my mom and my grandma as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's been an analcama, but both I would say.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it, and I love how warm. Even though

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<v Speaker 1>Derek encounters some adversity, whether it be homophobia or racism

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<v Speaker 1>or just you know, being an outsider in general, there's

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<v Speaker 1>that warm circle that surrounds him, be it family or

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<v Speaker 1>chosen family. And is that also something that you've had

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<v Speaker 1>growing up and becoming the wonderful person that we see

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<v Speaker 1>in front of us.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, gosh, you flatter me, yes, I would say, so.

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<v Speaker 2>So I game I came out very early on in

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<v Speaker 2>the seventh grade, and this was in the early aughts.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I was one of the only great kids

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<v Speaker 2>at school, and overnight I lost my whole friend's circle.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a dark chapter. I had to reinvent myself,

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<v Speaker 2>refine myself, find a new circul circle. And it was

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<v Speaker 2>earth chattering for me as a twelve year old. And

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<v Speaker 2>what saved me from that was being able to throw

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<v Speaker 2>myself into the creative arts. At the time, it was music,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was writing a novel that was processing my career,

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<v Speaker 2>identity and my budding feelings for my best friend, which

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<v Speaker 2>is such a queer like tale as old as time,

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<v Speaker 2>and finding community and a lot of fellow artists as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think ever since finding this passion of support,

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<v Speaker 2>I've never turned away. And so you know, even today,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of my closest friends are writers, actors, musicians

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<v Speaker 2>who to have found their pass of joy and healing

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<v Speaker 2>through art.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. Yeah, you have to surround yourself with

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<v Speaker 1>artists because otherwise your world has no color.

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<v Speaker 2>It's true, it may play forth, living and rich. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>actually in New York City right now because we're premiering

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<v Speaker 2>a film at NewFest. The LGBTQ Festival Film Festival in

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<v Speaker 2>New York, and we've made so many good friends just

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<v Speaker 2>through sharing really vulnerable aspects of ourselves. And it's nice

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to skip over this I'll talk of

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<v Speaker 2>things and really get to know somebody through a really

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<v Speaker 2>personal story that they poured themselves into.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that's right, because you're a filmmaker as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Films do you make if you had to put a

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<v Speaker 1>label on it totally?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that's a good question. I should probably like

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<v Speaker 2>practice what I answer this with. But right now, I

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<v Speaker 2>focus a lot of my stories on queer and trans

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<v Speaker 2>Asian Americans and on soft people who are put in

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<v Speaker 2>hard situations. And so the first short that I came

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<v Speaker 2>up with is called After what Happened at the Library,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's auto fiction, so it's based on my experience

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty two when the Proud Boys stormed my

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<v Speaker 2>drive Story Hour in San Lorenzo. I'm fair shouting transphobic

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<v Speaker 2>hate speech and I had to lock myself in the

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<v Speaker 2>back until the authorities arrived. It was national news, international news,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's about the direct aftermath of that at Variety,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that's in the Film Festival circuit right now.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I'm here at Newsaster for Betty Saint Clair,

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<v Speaker 2>which is about a Chinese American drag queen who throws

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<v Speaker 2>a drag performance at a senior citizen center and her

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<v Speaker 2>yay or grandpa is in the audience, and so she

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<v Speaker 2>has to decide whether to go on and and how

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<v Speaker 2>she reveals her true self or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, for one thing. For one thing,

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<v Speaker 1>I love your description soft people. Is it soft people

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<v Speaker 1>that go through hard times?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that what you said?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's beautiful. That's that's a tagline right there.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thank you. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That well, you are one of the the founding queens

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<v Speaker 1>uh your your Uh what am I trying to say?

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<v Speaker 1>Your artistic counter part, Panda Doulce, you are one of

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<v Speaker 1>the founding queens of Drag story Time, right, It's true,

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<v Speaker 1>which is thank you for your service.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Chall So, because of your experience dealing with the Proud

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<v Speaker 1>Boys and Drag Story Time, you definitely have h first

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<v Speaker 1>person experience with triumphing over adversity, which is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>an integral part of being a queer person in America,

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<v Speaker 1>especially right now. And you're like an authority on in

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<v Speaker 1>that area, I would say.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Yeah, I think I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>any resilience that I have I owe to my community.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is such a queer answer, right, but it's real

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<v Speaker 2>for a reason. Like after it happens, I was just

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<v Speaker 2>inundated with press and journalists asking me over and over

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<v Speaker 2>to to just relive it in a really expreciating way,

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<v Speaker 2>and like asking for all these details and all the

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<v Speaker 2>It felt like it felt like I was being quartered into,

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<v Speaker 2>being triggered so that they could have that sound by

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<v Speaker 2>it for what they wanted the story to be, right

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<v Speaker 2>as well as just you know, like trauma dumps and

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<v Speaker 2>love letters and death threats and Transphoba hate and and

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<v Speaker 2>so in the aftermath, I couldn't really make any decisions

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<v Speaker 2>in my life, Like my executive functioning was shot. I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't even order food.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just so overwhelmed. And and my friend stepped

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<v Speaker 2>up in a really big way. And queer dreads people

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<v Speaker 2>from across the world, Like I got letters from like

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<v Speaker 2>Norway and Sweeten and people sending me like Tea and

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<v Speaker 2>Crystal and like you know, organizing meal trains and coming

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<v Speaker 2>to cook like larm for me, like Thai food and

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<v Speaker 2>just volunteering to come watch movies with me. And it

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<v Speaker 2>kind of clear or if I had what pride meant

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<v Speaker 2>for me, that it's less about the ostentatious floats and

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<v Speaker 2>it's more about this network of people who we've cultivated together.

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought that was a really beautiful thing. And

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<v Speaker 2>I can't be a lot of help in the future.

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<v Speaker 2>That is it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's it, you know, it's community, like community, chosen family,

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<v Speaker 1>coming together through the hard times, just being there for

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<v Speaker 1>one another. That is what pride is about. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I do enjoy a good go go boy and some

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<v Speaker 1>skimpy underwear shaken on a float every now and again.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the heart of it, you know, that's really

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<v Speaker 1>what it is. And that's what I keep trying to

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<v Speaker 1>get our cishead counterparts to understand. You know, everyone wants

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<v Speaker 1>to reduce being queer to sex. It's always, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what goes on in the bedroom shouln't be blah blah

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<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah blah blah. My argument is always, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>so you stop being straight the moment after you come.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that how this works? You know, It's like it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's about community, and it's a lot of people take

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<v Speaker 1>that for granted because they've never really had to overcome anything,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. So yours is a powerful

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<v Speaker 1>story and a powerful message. And again I thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for you know, doing what you've done and going through

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<v Speaker 1>what you've gone through, because it's a cornerstone of what

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<v Speaker 1>it means to be LGBTQ in America.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much much. And honestly, I really quod that

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<v Speaker 2>you brought that up, because I don't know. I was

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<v Speaker 2>very critical of a lot of the queer media and

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<v Speaker 2>culture that I have consumers in high school, and this

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<v Speaker 2>was around the time that Prop eight was up, and

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<v Speaker 2>it seems that our flagship issue as a community was

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not we could get married. And I understand

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<v Speaker 2>that's a very personal decision and very important to a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people. I don't necessarily believe in marriage for myself,

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<v Speaker 2>but often our priorities and our focuses as the community

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<v Speaker 2>are dictated by those at the top, and those at

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<v Speaker 2>the top tend to be to stay white men. And

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<v Speaker 2>you see this reflected in the media that we have.

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<v Speaker 2>You see this reflected in the events that are the

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<v Speaker 2>most resourced for pride, and it doesn't speak for everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I think that's why supporting queer trans literature

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<v Speaker 2>from queer transfers of color is important to just add

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<v Speaker 2>to the tapestry of who we are and to remind

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<v Speaker 2>us that there are our voices that are fighting to

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<v Speaker 2>get a mode to come of the same amount of

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<v Speaker 2>spotlight and that very much deserve it.

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<v Speaker 1>Very much so. And I also appreciate that you bring

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<v Speaker 1>to the table your experiences as an Asian American well

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<v Speaker 1>and as an Asian American period and as an Asian

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<v Speaker 1>American queer person, because those are stories that don't get

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<v Speaker 1>told as often, especially when we talk about, like say, racism,

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<v Speaker 1>the story tends to focus on white versus black because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for obvious reasons, but there's so much of

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<v Speaker 1>a tapestry under the bipoc umbrella that we don't delve

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<v Speaker 1>into that much. And admittedly, like I try to seek

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<v Speaker 1>out things that are centered around Asian and Asian American stories,

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<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't happen near as much as it should.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was so grateful that your book came into

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<v Speaker 1>my life.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess so much. Yeah, I think that black and

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<v Speaker 2>white paradigms and binaries in general are such a a

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<v Speaker 2>straight constructs because I don't know. I feel like as

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<v Speaker 2>group people like we know that life exists on a

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<v Speaker 2>spectrum and identities exist on a spectrum, and there's more

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<v Speaker 2>to the world than the binaristic polar opposites on that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's what I'm kind of beautiful about who

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<v Speaker 2>we are and how we can grow and change and

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<v Speaker 2>experiments and not be so fixated or fixed in our

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<v Speaker 2>conception of self in the world. And I hope that's

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<v Speaker 2>something that I get through, but I think you do.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I love how there are definitely, uh little cultural moments, images, words,

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<v Speaker 1>food that are just woven through the story and it's just,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's just part of the experience of Derek.

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<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful. One thing I did want to ask you,

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<v Speaker 1>you made a point in the Book of Everyone Who

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<v Speaker 1>Is All that I believe all the characters in the

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<v Speaker 1>book that are LGBTQ saying queer as opposed to gay.

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<v Speaker 1>That felt like a very definitive choice. Why did you

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<v Speaker 1>make that choice?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, why not? But why?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's interesting because I identify as a millennial, and

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<v Speaker 2>I imagine that the vast majority of people who are

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<v Speaker 2>going to pick up this book, are going to be Jenalfa,

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<v Speaker 2>which is coming from the terms with and identity in

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<v Speaker 2>a different way. And so I wanted to write something

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<v Speaker 2>that was true to me and we'll also speak to

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<v Speaker 2>that generation. And I think the best way to do

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<v Speaker 2>that is to have a human centered story and that's

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<v Speaker 2>what makes things timeless. But are you familiar with the

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<v Speaker 2>phrase like not gay as unhappy, but queer as an

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<v Speaker 2>f you?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, yes I am.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I say that on here? Can we can we

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<v Speaker 2>do real love?

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<v Speaker 1>You can curse, you can say trow.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's really just like embrace, adopting and embracing that ethos,

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<v Speaker 2>And that's kind of a punk rock thing of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one's identity not just being a similationist and acceptable and respectable,

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<v Speaker 2>but fundamentally at odds with everything around you. And that

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<v Speaker 2>is the predicament that Derek finds himself in when he

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<v Speaker 2>is in the small town where he doesn't know anybody.

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<v Speaker 2>He's coming to the terms with himself, coming to an

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<v Speaker 2>understanding of who he is and who he is capable

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<v Speaker 2>of becoming, and boldly decides that he needs to go

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<v Speaker 2>in the direction that is true. And so the reason

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<v Speaker 2>why I chose queer is because I feel like it

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<v Speaker 2>speaks to this theme and that each of the characters

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<v Speaker 2>in their own way embodies this based on their timeline

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<v Speaker 2>or the plot head of album. If that makes sense, it.

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<v Speaker 1>Does, And that definitely does make sense because queer is

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<v Speaker 1>definitely more of an all encompassing term because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>depending on what person is reading this book and where

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<v Speaker 1>they fall on the spectrum, they can identify no matter

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<v Speaker 1>where they are because you use the word queer because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if you had chosen the word gay, what

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<v Speaker 1>if they're not gay? What if they're by what if that?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm saying. So I did appreciate that choice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably any universe, like you said, I feel you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I dig it. And again it's challenging that damned

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<v Speaker 1>binary which people have.

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<v Speaker 4>Such a problem with.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's funny because I feel like binary is okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So I know, I said, straight people created it. It's true,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not true because because I feel like binaristic

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<v Speaker 2>thinking and black and white thinking comes from like cave

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<v Speaker 2>days where it's like you walk past a cave and

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<v Speaker 2>you look in and it's dark and it looks scary,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're like, am I gonna die there? Or am

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<v Speaker 2>I going to survive in there? And it's not simple

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<v Speaker 2>like do I go in or do I leave? And like, right,

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<v Speaker 2>that is the sort of thinking that we regress to

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<v Speaker 2>when we think about these things sometimes is it good

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<v Speaker 2>that or is it bad? Is that you know, evil

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever? And I feel like a lot of our

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<v Speaker 2>work sometimes so really impact that and to complicate that

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<v Speaker 2>and to get used to the ambiguity of all and

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<v Speaker 2>that might be what leads us to having a sort

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<v Speaker 2>of quiet beast with ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, that's interesting, Like I never really thought of

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<v Speaker 1>the binary as a defense mechanism. That's interesting. And so

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<v Speaker 1>the irony of that then is that once you can

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<v Speaker 1>embrace the spectrum, there's a level of comfort that comes

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<v Speaker 1>with that, comfort with oneself, comfort with the world around you,

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<v Speaker 1>and then irony again, how threatening that is to people

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<v Speaker 1>that exist in the binary.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I feel like there's just it's kind of an

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<v Speaker 2>exposure therapy tanking, because it's like the more the white

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<v Speaker 2>spectrum from people that you're introduced to, a white spectrum

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<v Speaker 2>of stories of different walks of life, the more taller

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<v Speaker 2>even I hate that word, it's like, yeah, they can

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<v Speaker 2>tolerate you, but the more open than you are to

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<v Speaker 2>hearing somebody out or just receptive that you might be

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<v Speaker 2>or where they come from. And it's like all, I

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<v Speaker 2>think a lot of xenophobia just comes from just but

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<v Speaker 2>like lack of exposure to and therefore a lack of

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<v Speaker 2>empathy on other people who they haven't met.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, which I mean, that's such a foreign thing to

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<v Speaker 1>me because because I've been lucky, because pretty much my

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<v Speaker 1>entire life, I've been surrounded by so many different kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of people. And like my friend group from grade school

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<v Speaker 1>through college was like the United Colors of Benatton, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the white ones and the black ones and the brown

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<v Speaker 1>ones and the brown and the Beisian. You know what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't people the same way. It's like hard for me

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<v Speaker 2>to relate to that, like all I mean, but yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, they're it. And it still boggles my

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<v Speaker 1>mind in twenty twenty five that there are some white

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<v Speaker 1>folks walking around that can and have live their entire

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<v Speaker 1>life up to this point surrounded by nothing but white people. Say,

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<v Speaker 1>how is that even possible? Like physically possible? At this point?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I feel like it's something I've got a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people aspire to, Like you think about people

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<v Speaker 2>who get richer and what they want to do. They

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<v Speaker 2>want to get their own place that's isolated from everyone else.

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<v Speaker 2>They want to get a private driver with tinted windows

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<v Speaker 2>so they're separated, and you know, people aspire for this

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<v Speaker 2>level of insulation. It's just it's just not a realistic

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<v Speaker 2>way to live, and it's not how I want to

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<v Speaker 2>live my life. I want to be integrated into the

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<v Speaker 2>the textures of the world. So I don't know. I

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<v Speaker 2>think every book is kind of a gateway to invite

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<v Speaker 2>you to be a part of the world in a

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<v Speaker 2>way that makes sense for everyone here here.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. I love it. So one of the

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<v Speaker 1>main components of the story is Derek discovers not only

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<v Speaker 1>his queer identity, but his love of drag. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you have your your your artistic persona of Panda Dulce.

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<v Speaker 1>How much of a parallel is there between your discovery

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<v Speaker 1>of drag and the embracing of the feminine. How much

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<v Speaker 1>of a parallels that between you and Derek.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like there's a lot one of the ways

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<v Speaker 2>that I was introduced to drag because I have been

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<v Speaker 2>doing that my whole life. When I was little, I

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<v Speaker 2>would walk around with this little face paint book that

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<v Speaker 2>had a palette of of you know, just different colors,

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<v Speaker 2>primary colors. And in middle school I would just make

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<v Speaker 2>up with my friends at sepembers. We laugh about it.

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<v Speaker 2>And in high school I was in some plays and

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<v Speaker 2>then you know, got really serious about it as an adult.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the through line throughout all of this

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<v Speaker 2>was a sense of play and wonder and also the

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<v Speaker 2>power in the shop value of being seen and unmistakably

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<v Speaker 2>seen and acknowledge. I feel like as growing up Asian American,

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<v Speaker 2>there's this sort of invisibility that many of us may experience,

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<v Speaker 2>which is being kind of regarded as dismissable or disposable

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<v Speaker 2>or just kind of like an NPC. And this this

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<v Speaker 2>was just a kind of dynamic that I found a

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<v Speaker 2>lot We're always suspected growing up. But I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in San Francisco, which has a big Asian Recan population,

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<v Speaker 2>but felt very sharply when I went to these because

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<v Speaker 2>first school and was in a predominantly UHDE environment, Like

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<v Speaker 2>it almost felt like I was invisible most of the

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<v Speaker 2>time and then highly visible at other times, like when

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<v Speaker 2>certain works came up and they're like, oh, can you

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<v Speaker 2>speak on behalf of an entire racial group, Kyle, So

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<v Speaker 2>kind of having this lack of control over one's visibility

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<v Speaker 2>and therefore a lack of dignity and a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>objectification of one's experience. I wanted to talk about that

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<v Speaker 2>and sort of play with those ideas in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>how Derek discovers himself and learns to kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>reclaim a sense of control and authorship over that and

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00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.960
<v Speaker 2>gets to decide for him himself when he gets to

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<v Speaker 2>dazzle and shy and when he has quieter moments with

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00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:52.119
<v Speaker 2>his friends. And I don't know, I think about pageant

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00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:54.519
<v Speaker 2>was a perfect venue for that, Oh definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>And I love the drag name that he chose from

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<v Speaker 1>so Be Daring. It's just like, you know, message.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't want to put any spoilers on there,

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00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:15.119
<v Speaker 2>but there's definitely a personal reason for that collection as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And I love I love the relationship that Derek has

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00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.279
<v Speaker 1>with his best friend JJ, and I love how they

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<v Speaker 1>have this thing where this is going to be the

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<v Speaker 1>summer of This is gonna be the summer of X

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<v Speaker 1>y Z and and this particular summer was the summer

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<v Speaker 1>of Yes, and I'm like, we should all have a

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<v Speaker 1>summer of yes and an autumn of yes and a

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<v Speaker 1>winter yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you for that. I had to restrain myself

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00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:46.400
<v Speaker 2>from calling it summer of Yes with an A because

399
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:50.640
<v Speaker 2>I was just like that. But I think a lot

400
00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:55.079
<v Speaker 2>of them came actually because this book was greenlight. Like

401
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:59.599
<v Speaker 2>right after the first you're in the pandemic and we

402
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.160
<v Speaker 2>were all, you know, isolated. It not to throw you

403
00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:06.759
<v Speaker 2>back into the into that, but I feel like afterwards,

404
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 2>when everyone started picking their heads out and gathering in

405
00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:14.079
<v Speaker 2>public again, we all became a little awkward because we've

406
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:17.359
<v Speaker 2>been isolated for so long, and I was like, oh yeah,

407
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.039
<v Speaker 2>and like even some night life at and events, I

408
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:24.640
<v Speaker 2>haven't really bounced back from that. And for me, I

409
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.440
<v Speaker 2>was like, I craved connection, and I craved.

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00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:33.559
<v Speaker 3>Mug I'm sorry anyway, I craved connection and then I

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00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.559
<v Speaker 3>craved community, and I decided that when people asked me

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00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:40.480
<v Speaker 3>to do things, I would always say yes, and it's

413
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.200
<v Speaker 3>led to a lot of great friendships post Panini, and

414
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<v Speaker 3>I want to do the same for Derek, So I

415
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:46.960
<v Speaker 3>love it.

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00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:53.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's for real. I've that time was a moment

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00:26:54.359 --> 00:27:00.720
<v Speaker 1>of intense growth for a lot of people, especially folks

418
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:07.279
<v Speaker 1>in our community, but it also broke some folks, you know,

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00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:10.400
<v Speaker 1>And it's like at the same time, it's it's interesting,

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00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.039
<v Speaker 1>like at the same time that so many people are

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00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:22.839
<v Speaker 1>discovering themselves, so many other people are like finding ways

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00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:29.119
<v Speaker 1>to other everyone else. It's that that dichotomy is just

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00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting.

424
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, before I came out, I was pretty homophobic,

425
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and I remember I would call people a fag and

426
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.160
<v Speaker 2>I would say, oh, that looks gay, right, And it's

427
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.960
<v Speaker 2>like contrast provides definition in the sense that you know,

428
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.759
<v Speaker 2>you know that you are straight because you are not gay,

429
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.160
<v Speaker 2>and because you are not gay, you are straight. Right,

430
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:05.400
<v Speaker 2>So if you call everyone else, that makes you not

431
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:05.920
<v Speaker 2>that way for me.

432
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.000
<v Speaker 1>But that's that's that's how that works.

433
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. So I think there's a lot of

434
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 2>insight into homophobia, and that's why I like Republicans are

435
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:23.079
<v Speaker 2>shown through psychological tests to respond the most to like

436
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:29.119
<v Speaker 2>queer porn. Ah. I don't know, that's the whole can

437
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.920
<v Speaker 2>of worms that we don't have to go to another

438
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.240
<v Speaker 2>podcast episode. But but you know, usually when people have transphobia,

439
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:43.160
<v Speaker 2>have like harbor homophog use it. It usually points to

440
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:45.039
<v Speaker 2>some work that needs to be done that I doubt

441
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.000
<v Speaker 2>they'll embark on, but hope they do.

442
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.440
<v Speaker 1>As I'm fond of saying, the squeaky wheel wants to

443
00:28:50.440 --> 00:29:05.400
<v Speaker 1>get bent over in greeceed. No, but but yeah, that's true.

444
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:13.799
<v Speaker 1>Like it internalized homophobia, internalized transphobia. It's two pronged one. Obviously,

445
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.359
<v Speaker 1>it's a product of the narrative that we've been force

446
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 1>fed our entire lives through religion, full stop period. I

447
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.480
<v Speaker 1>don't have to give another example, but you know, it's

448
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.480
<v Speaker 1>also a defense mechanism, especially when you're a kid like

449
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.440
<v Speaker 1>I get it, and you have to have a certain

450
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:38.440
<v Speaker 1>level of introspection to come out on the other side.

451
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.759
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's where we lose a lot of people,

452
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:46.920
<v Speaker 1>because introspection is not a does not appear to be

453
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.519
<v Speaker 1>a very popular trait amongst people if you go by

454
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:53.720
<v Speaker 1>what you see on the.

455
00:29:53.720 --> 00:30:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Daily right, I think our world, and mediated through capitalism,

456
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>is predicated on distraction and yes speaking, validation, whether it's

457
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.720
<v Speaker 2>through being beautiful or accomplished, or buying a makeup to

458
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.319
<v Speaker 2>look a certain way, social media and you know, the

459
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:26.079
<v Speaker 2>zombie state of Storling and all. Because I don't know.

460
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:32.119
<v Speaker 2>I think critical thinking and self awareness and reflect them

461
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:37.319
<v Speaker 2>could threaten the entire fabric, and therefore it's reviled and

462
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 2>the lion and I don't know. And it's funny that

463
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:43.920
<v Speaker 2>books are getting bambacked right now, because what do books

464
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.960
<v Speaker 2>are encourage but creativity and critical thinking?

465
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:54.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh exactly. Knowledge equals power, and that is one thing

466
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:57.680
<v Speaker 1>they do not want us to have, is power, because

467
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:04.039
<v Speaker 1>and knowledge. Because if we spend so much time down

468
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:08.279
<v Speaker 1>here on the ground fighting amongst each other, we won't

469
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.240
<v Speaker 1>take the time to stop and look up at the

470
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.960
<v Speaker 1>ones who have like sown the seeds of descent, and

471
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:18.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's way more of us than there are

472
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.960
<v Speaker 1>of them, And yeah, it's best to keep us busy.

473
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.720
<v Speaker 2>That's true. I forget who the theorist is who put

474
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.240
<v Speaker 2>it this way, but they said, how many of the

475
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:32.440
<v Speaker 2>guards do you need for a prison of a billion?

476
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>And they said you only if they are all fighting

477
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.119
<v Speaker 2>at each other, you only need one. Is that one

478
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>guard is just watching it at all, in bold and

479
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:45.000
<v Speaker 2>their job is done for them exactly.

480
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.559
<v Speaker 1>And that's why I am so glad that we have

481
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:55.839
<v Speaker 1>books like yours, because you know, I feel like and

482
00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.480
<v Speaker 1>we've said this on the podcast several times, like four

483
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:06.799
<v Speaker 1>and and Fahrenheit for fifty one and The Handmaid's Tale

484
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:12.480
<v Speaker 1>and Brave New World. We're supposed to be horrible warnings,

485
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>not a freaking how to guide, you know. It's like,

486
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:21.119
<v Speaker 1>are people not reading? I feel like, because yeah, if

487
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:23.920
<v Speaker 1>we're not encouraged to read, then we won't encounter these books,

488
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:26.599
<v Speaker 1>and then we won't go hmmm, this is like the

489
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 1>playbook that we're going through. So yeah, it's it's so

490
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:38.319
<v Speaker 1>the apocalypse looks so much cooler in the brochure, you

491
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:38.920
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean?

492
00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:43.039
<v Speaker 2>What it's art life too closely. It's a different story,

493
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:45.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, my goodness.

494
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.720
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's why I'm so glad that we have

495
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:50.920
<v Speaker 1>voices like yours.

496
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:51.839
<v Speaker 2>Thank careful.

497
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.880
<v Speaker 1>So here's a question that I always ask my author

498
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>and authorist guests. I'm a huge fan of music and

499
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:07.799
<v Speaker 1>using music as a background element when I create, is

500
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.240
<v Speaker 1>do you have a soundtrack when you write? And if so,

501
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.039
<v Speaker 1>what was the soundtrack to the writing of this book.

502
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so funny that you asked that, because it

503
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:22.839
<v Speaker 2>I kind of want on a journey with those. At first,

504
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.160
<v Speaker 2>I was just listening to low fi beats to study

505
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.319
<v Speaker 2>YouTube because they just needed something in the background that

506
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:34.000
<v Speaker 2>could be at the reading on the sea, but didn't

507
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:36.559
<v Speaker 2>have any words because I can't listen to words while

508
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I write. And then I had a little bit of

509
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:42.000
<v Speaker 2>like cafe jazz. Oh yeah, we had in comments, and

510
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:46.160
<v Speaker 2>then at one point somebody said, this book feels like

511
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.559
<v Speaker 2>if Chapel runs Pony a cloud bore a book, and

512
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:52.359
<v Speaker 2>I realized that's true, like I just want to keep

513
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.000
<v Speaker 2>dancing thing. So not really, I had really anonymous music,

514
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:01.279
<v Speaker 2>but it kind of created a sort of soft bed

515
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:03.680
<v Speaker 2>on which I could build a foundation of a story.

516
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.680
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I haven't thought about that too much, but

517
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I wish there were more instrumentals that were dynamic, like

518
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.840
<v Speaker 2>film scores and dramatic that I could just listen to

519
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and repeat, because I feel like that really sparks.

520
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Some I when I was an undergrad actually let me

521
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:29.239
<v Speaker 1>not even pigeonhole that. When I was an art student,

522
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:35.280
<v Speaker 1>and also when I was a quote unquote professional artist,

523
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.880
<v Speaker 1>I think there was like a two year period where

524
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:41.559
<v Speaker 1>all I listened to is house music, and film scores.

525
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 2>Brought to that.

526
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, watching so many movies, A really good score

527
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:55.199
<v Speaker 1>not only supports the film but pulls your focus to, hey,

528
00:34:55.239 --> 00:35:00.159
<v Speaker 1>this is good music over here. And you know, when

529
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 1>I was a professional choreographer, I'm always listening for music

530
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:07.639
<v Speaker 1>that tells a story that takes you on a journey.

531
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.760
<v Speaker 1>And film scores where my go to, you know, especially

532
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:19.559
<v Speaker 1>the more avant garde gonzo films like the score to

533
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:25.119
<v Speaker 1>Fight Club for instance, got me through some stuffs. Get Paul, Yeah,

534
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:28.280
<v Speaker 1>I love and I also love you know. The element

535
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:34.880
<v Speaker 1>in your story about find basically finding your tribe, which

536
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:41.159
<v Speaker 1>is an integral part of being a human. And you know,

537
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:46.480
<v Speaker 1>no matter where you are on the planet, one of

538
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:50.880
<v Speaker 1>the keys to survival is finding your tribe. You know,

539
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:56.639
<v Speaker 1>however that may be, whether it's you know, talking to

540
00:35:56.679 --> 00:36:00.840
<v Speaker 1>your next door neighbor or finding a book club or

541
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:05.159
<v Speaker 1>what have you. It's just it's so important. So who

542
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:07.480
<v Speaker 1>is your tribe right right now? Who would you say

543
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:09.559
<v Speaker 1>is like, this is my tribe.

544
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you're asking that, because going back to the

545
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.119
<v Speaker 2>black and white thinking and like the drama of being

546
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.000
<v Speaker 2>a preteen and a team, when you come out or

547
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 2>you have some sort of big revelatory moments, it can

548
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:28.360
<v Speaker 2>often sound like it realizes like the whole world hates me,

549
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:31.760
<v Speaker 2>I have no friends. These are like like all or nothing,

550
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:34.800
<v Speaker 2>black and white statements, right, And in reality you think

551
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 2>it's a more complicated than that, Like your parents might

552
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:43.159
<v Speaker 2>not accept certain parts of you, and your friends might

553
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:47.960
<v Speaker 2>accept all of that, and you know I don't. I'm

554
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.079
<v Speaker 2>not I'm not prop properly articulating this, but basically, there

555
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.000
<v Speaker 2>are people in my life. I feel like I can

556
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:57.280
<v Speaker 2>go out with an advocate time an sam movie. There

557
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.960
<v Speaker 2>are people who I can make dinner with and talk

558
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:05.239
<v Speaker 2>about a book. There are people who I can think

559
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.559
<v Speaker 2>up ridiculous drag numbers with and go to drag shows

560
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:11.599
<v Speaker 2>and just be a little wild, right, And all of

561
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:15.480
<v Speaker 2>these people resonate with a different side or a different

562
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:18.760
<v Speaker 2>part of me, And it doesn't necessarily mean that they

563
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:23.760
<v Speaker 2>represent the totality of who I am at any given time.

564
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.440
<v Speaker 2>And so what I wanted to introduce through Derek's journey

565
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.800
<v Speaker 2>is this idea that he belongs to a basketball team,

566
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:35.639
<v Speaker 2>and he he belongs to basketball and feels like he

567
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:38.079
<v Speaker 2>belongs in a certain way there, and he feels the

568
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:41.920
<v Speaker 2>same way about drag for different reasons, and that's perfectly legitimate.

569
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.559
<v Speaker 2>And the more that we can introduce the complexity of

570
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:52.559
<v Speaker 2>these things. I think the closer to someone finding communities

571
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:56.920
<v Speaker 2>that they belong to, and the closer that young readers

572
00:37:56.920 --> 00:37:59.360
<v Speaker 2>can feel that they belong in this world in many

573
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.039
<v Speaker 2>ways is for men different reasons.

574
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. We contain multitudes.

575
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:05.480
<v Speaker 2>It's true, Yeah, that was.

576
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:10.719
<v Speaker 1>That was a poignant part of the story. Like Derek

577
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:15.159
<v Speaker 1>being in the small town where he's with his grandmother

578
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:19.320
<v Speaker 1>and he has his new friends, and he referred to

579
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 1>himself as it was a heritage Derek, and then there's

580
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:28.480
<v Speaker 1>like his back home Derek, and he was afraid that

581
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:36.199
<v Speaker 1>those two had to be separate. And you know that's

582
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:42.000
<v Speaker 1>as someone who was a queer child who you know

583
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:49.480
<v Speaker 1>wasn't you're always afraid of not being accepted, having all

584
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.400
<v Speaker 1>different parts of you not being accepted, and having a

585
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 1>compartmentalized And when you can find those people that overlap that,

586
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.599
<v Speaker 1>then died. I agree. It's so wonderful and.

587
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes rare, you know, definitely rare. Yeah, I think just

588
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:14.880
<v Speaker 2>the idea that there can be two or more conflicting truths.

589
00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this is like an age appropriate analogy,

590
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:24.239
<v Speaker 2>but it's this idea that you know you are married

591
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.119
<v Speaker 2>to somebody and then you meet someone else who you

592
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:31.360
<v Speaker 2>have feelings for, and then you think, well, because I

593
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:33.760
<v Speaker 2>have feelings for this new person, does this mean that

594
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:36.199
<v Speaker 2>I no longer love the person that I'm married to?

595
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:39.960
<v Speaker 2>And you know, you can be in love with those

596
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.760
<v Speaker 2>people at once and share that, and they don't. They're

597
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.960
<v Speaker 2>not mutually exclusive. Theyn't can't say each other's out or

598
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:48.599
<v Speaker 2>they don't have to, right, And so I think the

599
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:52.199
<v Speaker 2>same sort of logic can be applied to your interests

600
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:56.480
<v Speaker 2>or the people you enjoy hanging with, or your different

601
00:39:56.519 --> 00:40:00.719
<v Speaker 2>identities like I remember when I first started studying or

602
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.559
<v Speaker 2>recent sexuality, there's this prevailed dignotion and that I think

603
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:06.199
<v Speaker 2>you know what you know what it was. It was

604
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:12.039
<v Speaker 2>around the Obama election and numbers. We're going around asking

605
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:14.239
<v Speaker 2>people like, so are you going to vote for Obama

606
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:16.719
<v Speaker 2>or Hillary? Like would you choose your blackness or your

607
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:23.440
<v Speaker 2>femaleness first? And it's like an impossible intersectionality to disentangle, right,

608
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:25.880
<v Speaker 2>And it's true that you could be both at once.

609
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:29.239
<v Speaker 2>You are both at once simultaneously out at all times.

610
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:36.679
<v Speaker 2>They're not at break And I think the more comfortable

611
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:40.880
<v Speaker 2>we get with this idea, the more we can embrace

612
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:44.239
<v Speaker 2>the world for what it is, which is just a big,

613
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:45.760
<v Speaker 2>complicated and messy place.

614
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and we have to embrace the mess, which I

615
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.079
<v Speaker 1>think is the hard part. We want everything to be

616
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:03.559
<v Speaker 1>neat and tidy and fit into a box with a

617
00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 1>nice label on it, just one box, and no one

618
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:10.239
<v Speaker 1>is that.

619
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.679
<v Speaker 2>I remember as a kid people would ask me like,

620
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:17.119
<v Speaker 2>what do you want to do when you grow up?

621
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:20.159
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, I want to be a figure

622
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.440
<v Speaker 2>skater and a detective and an author and like a

623
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.760
<v Speaker 2>performer and a director. And they're just like, oh, yeah,

624
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I'll share whatever, and like I'm not tooting my own horn,

625
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.559
<v Speaker 2>but like I do all those things, like I wrote

626
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:34.599
<v Speaker 2>a book and I have a film, and I do

627
00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:38.039
<v Speaker 2>drag and I have a day job, and like I

628
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:40.320
<v Speaker 2>never had to choose, and I never had to or

629
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.440
<v Speaker 2>should have been pressured to do that. It's just like

630
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:48.599
<v Speaker 2>we just so I situated to this idea that we

631
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:54.159
<v Speaker 2>must be like one sound right of a thing. I

632
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:56.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know. We all contained so many stories and so

633
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:59.920
<v Speaker 2>many bet dimensions and we should really learn how to that.

634
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Come on, renaissance woman.

635
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:14.320
<v Speaker 5>Yeah right, yeah, I'm I am always.

636
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Saying no one is ever always anything. You know what

637
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and you know that's my clever way of

638
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.880
<v Speaker 1>using absolutes to say that there are no absolutes. But yeah,

639
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:35.639
<v Speaker 1>no one is ever just all one thing. And the people,

640
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.559
<v Speaker 1>anyone that tells you that they are is either lying

641
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.280
<v Speaker 1>or trying to tell you something, you know what I mean,

642
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Like your most rigid Republican who's you know, got the

643
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:52.960
<v Speaker 1>three piece suit and is you know anti this that?

644
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:56.119
<v Speaker 1>And the third I bet you money there's a guard

645
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:59.199
<v Speaker 1>belt under that suit. You know what I'm saying.

646
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:01.840
<v Speaker 2>This is proven to be true.

647
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:07.840
<v Speaker 1>You know, everyone has layers and there is more to everyone,

648
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:10.639
<v Speaker 1>and the more you try to hide things, the more

649
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 1>that thing comes to the surface. And you know, if

650
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.559
<v Speaker 1>we would just learn to embrace all the parts of

651
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:22.280
<v Speaker 1>ourselves and stop trying to act like you know, this

652
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:27.480
<v Speaker 1>is evil, this is bad, the happier will be again.

653
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:29.239
<v Speaker 1>Get rid of the binary.

654
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm the production surrounding it.

655
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:35.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it serves no one.

656
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.400
<v Speaker 2>It just for longger Baye. It just makes those same

657
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:40.719
<v Speaker 2>feelings come up later, but with presentment.

658
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Exact to skip up, you know, skip to the good part.

659
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:58.159
<v Speaker 1>So what okay, here we go. If there were a film,

660
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:02.000
<v Speaker 1>whether you were to make the film or not about

661
00:44:02.679 --> 00:44:06.559
<v Speaker 1>the queen Bees of Tybee County? Did you do you

662
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:10.360
<v Speaker 1>have a cast in mind in the Bay.

663
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:17.920
<v Speaker 2>So, first of all, the book got options and so

664
00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Lambert Production is interested in turning this into a UK episodic,

665
00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:29.119
<v Speaker 2>which is amazing. I think there are a lot of

666
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:32.159
<v Speaker 2>hoops to jump through before it heads a television, but

667
00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:34.960
<v Speaker 2>it's still nice to be like, oh, what was optioned?

668
00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

669
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:43.599
<v Speaker 2>Cast. I love Sandra Oh work. I'm not sure if

670
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:48.840
<v Speaker 2>she would be old enough to be a grandmother. I

671
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.079
<v Speaker 2>love her Michelle Oh, but I feel like Sondra Oh

672
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:54.320
<v Speaker 2>could kind of bring some of the comedy of Claudia.

673
00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I can see it.

674
00:44:56.239 --> 00:44:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I can see that.

675
00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:00.559
<v Speaker 1>And there's some like fierce young grandmoms out there.

676
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:07.679
<v Speaker 2>They're around, they need to be past right cast. And

677
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:12.440
<v Speaker 2>for the dad, I feel like Daniel day Kim could

678
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:22.280
<v Speaker 2>be Derek's dad Carlo my god, Yes, that's like the

679
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.639
<v Speaker 2>gravity that you need. That he can bring the drama

680
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 2>and can be kind of reserved and a little withholding,

681
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:32.559
<v Speaker 2>but also.

682
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.960
<v Speaker 1>And a hot dad never hurts, and a hot dad

683
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.079
<v Speaker 1>never hurts, and.

684
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:42.880
<v Speaker 2>A hot dad, you know, I swear, And so I

685
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:45.280
<v Speaker 2>feel like he would play that as well. And in

686
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:49.119
<v Speaker 2>terms of the protagonist that does yet to reveal itself,

687
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

688
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 1>Some cool up and coming young actor, which reminds me like,

689
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.639
<v Speaker 1>I hope I'm not being too squaaly. But there's a

690
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:05.840
<v Speaker 1>moment where we find out that Derek's father wanted to

691
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:10.719
<v Speaker 1>be an actor and basically gave it up because someone said,

692
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:15.239
<v Speaker 1>no one wants to see an Asian Romeo. And that

693
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:19.840
<v Speaker 1>was so real because you know, I know, it made

694
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:26.039
<v Speaker 1>me stop and think about how many Asian leading actors

695
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I've seen in my life that weren't doing kung fu.

696
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know this is not a large enough heart

697
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.599
<v Speaker 2>of right, not in a cute way like this gets

698
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:40.199
<v Speaker 2>to the heart of why I started writing and started

699
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:45.000
<v Speaker 2>doing FELL because I realized how profile the media had

700
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:48.639
<v Speaker 2>affected my sense of self growing up, because I was

701
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:51.840
<v Speaker 2>largely absent from screening when I said, I mean Asian

702
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.159
<v Speaker 2>American characters, and when I was seeing on the screen,

703
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:56.719
<v Speaker 2>I was basically in the butt of a joke or

704
00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>a pint of humiliation. I remember how we talked about

705
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:03.400
<v Speaker 2>contrast providing definition and like, I am straight, and I

706
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:07.079
<v Speaker 2>know I'm straight because I'm not gay, right, I feel

707
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.079
<v Speaker 2>like the reason Asian Americans often appeared on the screen

708
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:15.679
<v Speaker 2>was to provide comic relief or failed masculinity, to reflect

709
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:19.440
<v Speaker 2>white masculinity and a better late yep, which is why

710
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:23.199
<v Speaker 2>we don't see Asian Americans in leading roles or romantic leads,

711
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:28.800
<v Speaker 2>because they're the foil so often and for a long time,

712
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:32.480
<v Speaker 2>especially in middle school, I was ashamed of my race,

713
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:37.159
<v Speaker 2>and I even once led to my friends in the

714
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:39.639
<v Speaker 2>sixth grade and told them that I was half white

715
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:42.599
<v Speaker 2>and that, you know, I was adopted and I'm not

716
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:45.320
<v Speaker 2>really Asian. And I really reveled when they told me

717
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:52.360
<v Speaker 2>I was practically white. And I've said something this, but

718
00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:56.400
<v Speaker 2>I realized a lot of that shame came from the

719
00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:59.199
<v Speaker 2>movies I had consumed at a really young age. And

720
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:03.199
<v Speaker 2>so right now I want to correct the record, and

721
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:07.079
<v Speaker 2>I want to create representations that actually reflect me with pride,

722
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.239
<v Speaker 2>and that's what I have to do through Queen Bees.

723
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.920
<v Speaker 1>I love it. I love it. I'm here for it

724
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:20.320
<v Speaker 1>because there's so much rich just richness there to tell.

725
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:26.679
<v Speaker 1>And you know, you don't have to go on this

726
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:32.199
<v Speaker 1>like historical journey to tell these stories. There's so many,

727
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:38.079
<v Speaker 1>like real American stories centered around Asian lives, you know,

728
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:42.559
<v Speaker 1>and damn it tell the stories.

729
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:46.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's true. And there are a lot of

730
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:50.679
<v Speaker 2>exact saying these things simply are profitable and like it's

731
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.480
<v Speaker 2>too risky, and like it won't work in the squadron

732
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.239
<v Speaker 2>in the Midwest, won't like it. And it's like everything

733
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.719
<v Speaker 2>everywhere all at once. I supposed to run with my success,

734
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:02.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, at the end of I think this is

735
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:05.639
<v Speaker 2>just you. But there's a new way of storytellers coming

736
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:07.960
<v Speaker 2>through on me. Yeah.

737
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, everywhere, everything everywhere, all at once, parasite, uh crazy

738
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:18.519
<v Speaker 1>rich Asians, Like it's starting to make the ups. What's

739
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:19.840
<v Speaker 1>the one?

740
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Ah, oh oh damn, mm hmmm, joy Ryan, that was

741
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:26.559
<v Speaker 2>really fun.

742
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, which I didn't see Beef, which I haven't seen yet.

743
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:32.840
<v Speaker 4>No, the one.

744
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.320
<v Speaker 2>A lot of controversy with that thought. That was a

745
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:35.039
<v Speaker 2>great show.

746
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 1>That's what I heard, the one with.

747
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:41.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, why am I not?

748
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, yes, that was that was beautiful. That was

749
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.199
<v Speaker 1>I always said, that's like that's black Panther for Asian folks,

750
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:58.639
<v Speaker 1>Like it was the same level of beauty and respect

751
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:03.199
<v Speaker 1>and badass, Like I love that film.

752
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:04.800
<v Speaker 2>What is that child?

753
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.360
<v Speaker 1>If I can think of the names, I can think

754
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:18.719
<v Speaker 1>of Oh damn, what is that comedian woman comedian? No,

755
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.199
<v Speaker 1>she was Ali Wong, Thank you, my God.

756
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:27.239
<v Speaker 2>Of course it was.

757
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:30.239
<v Speaker 1>It was what was it? You're the one that I want?

758
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Was that? What it was?

759
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:39.159
<v Speaker 1>Always be like, maybe thank you my brain was not braining.

760
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for going on that journey with.

761
00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:47.719
<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad we didn't. Yeah, that was I watched

762
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:50.880
<v Speaker 1>that every now and again, just just because because it's

763
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:55.519
<v Speaker 1>such a fun story. And so, yeah, there are we're

764
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:02.639
<v Speaker 1>getting there, but you know, hopefully we'll get to a

765
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:06.960
<v Speaker 1>place where folks don't feel like they have to fit

766
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:16.079
<v Speaker 1>into a certain box to have Asian representation. Yeah, I'm

767
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.159
<v Speaker 1>trying not to say be too white, but.

768
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:23.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, let me say it, because I feel like

769
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:25.960
<v Speaker 2>we're on the same page. What it does, which is

770
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:29.920
<v Speaker 2>like the whole diverse fide media movement. I feel like

771
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:32.039
<v Speaker 2>a lot of times, and I experienced this as an

772
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:35.119
<v Speaker 2>artist applying for grancunds, A lot of times they want

773
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>you to put your identity in your culture first, and

774
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:40.639
<v Speaker 2>they want you to situate yourself off as a representative

775
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:43.199
<v Speaker 2>who's speaking on behalf of this whole thing. There's a

776
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:46.280
<v Speaker 2>whole politics into this, but I feel like we're getting

777
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.599
<v Speaker 2>to a place where we don't need all Asian americond

778
00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:55.199
<v Speaker 2>stories to be like my grandmama and I'm making dumplings

779
00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:58.559
<v Speaker 2>by the Majong sets and like, you know, these are

780
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:03.519
<v Speaker 2>all about the stories and it's not to be important

781
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.280
<v Speaker 2>like ye with my name, and it's just like it's

782
00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:11.480
<v Speaker 2>just like a pulpy love story. That's it, right, Like

783
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:15.599
<v Speaker 2>give us dad movies too, And I can't wait for

784
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:17.519
<v Speaker 2>the renaissances out of exactly.

785
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's why I was so happy with the show

786
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Fresh off the Boat, because like I went to school

787
00:52:26.599 --> 00:52:29.400
<v Speaker 1>with that kid Eddie, you know what I mean, Like

788
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:32.880
<v Speaker 1>I know that kid, well no, but I'm saying like

789
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:37.400
<v Speaker 1>I was, like I went to school in West Philly,

790
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and West Philly has this wonderfully vibrant Asian community, so

791
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:48.960
<v Speaker 1>I some of my first friends were like Vietnamese and Korean.

792
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.880
<v Speaker 1>So it's like I know that kid. You know, he

793
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:54.920
<v Speaker 1>likes hip hop, he likes you know what I'm saying.

794
00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:00.760
<v Speaker 1>So I love that those are this like any real person.

795
00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:05.679
<v Speaker 4>And I think that's what what I get out of

796
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:10.719
<v Speaker 4>storytelling is being able to share the people who I

797
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:15.079
<v Speaker 4>know exists in real life and have made my life

798
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.519
<v Speaker 4>colorful and being able to actually see them on screen,

799
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:21.920
<v Speaker 4>and especially the people we haven't seen before, like a

800
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:27.719
<v Speaker 4>grandpa who is clunkily trans allied to Betty, the protagonists

801
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:31.000
<v Speaker 4>of the shor what I did to you know, well, well,

802
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:32.440
<v Speaker 4>meeting a punk rock.

803
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:35.519
<v Speaker 2>Social worker who is in a hot light house, like

804
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:38.360
<v Speaker 2>another feature that I'm working on with my stand machine.

805
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.800
<v Speaker 2>It's just like it just fills out our world. And

806
00:53:43.639 --> 00:53:46.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I'm just excited for us to continue

807
00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:48.639
<v Speaker 2>consuming and creating real ass stories because I think we

808
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:49.239
<v Speaker 2>need that.

809
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Real ass stories. Indeed, you know, because you know what

810
00:53:55.960 --> 00:54:02.519
<v Speaker 1>authenticity you can you can taste it and more to

811
00:54:02.599 --> 00:54:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the point inauthenticity. You can feel it, and it's that

812
00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:13.159
<v Speaker 1>whole thing like real recognizes real and the queen Bees

813
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:17.119
<v Speaker 1>of Tybee County that's real. I can tell. Like it

814
00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:22.320
<v Speaker 1>feels like it comes from a real place. There's no artifice.

815
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:28.599
<v Speaker 1>It's like even if like you, Kyle, didn't experience this

816
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:32.800
<v Speaker 1>particular thing, you're drawing from someone or something that you know,

817
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:37.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, like none of it feels like made up

818
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:42.159
<v Speaker 1>whole cloth. It comes from a real place. And I

819
00:54:42.199 --> 00:54:49.440
<v Speaker 1>appreciate that, and I think young readers will get a

820
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:53.559
<v Speaker 1>lot out of this book. And it's not just for

821
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:59.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, queer folks in fact, like you know, put

822
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:02.079
<v Speaker 1>this book in the hands of your sist, white child.

823
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Damn it, you.

824
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:09.599
<v Speaker 2>Were talking about Black Panther. I'm not black, but that

825
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 2>movie made a chears and started walk on it forever, okay,

826
00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:15.079
<v Speaker 2>because it was so beautiful to see it, and it's

827
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:20.039
<v Speaker 2>something not it's like Blacktopia. It did something for me. Right,

828
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:23.880
<v Speaker 2>You don't have to be I thought I do to

829
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:25.840
<v Speaker 2>appreciate that and for it to really around out your

830
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.880
<v Speaker 2>world exactly.

831
00:55:28.039 --> 00:55:33.119
<v Speaker 1>And you know, shang Chi, even though like the original

832
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:39.800
<v Speaker 1>character was a little bit problematic, you know, it's like right,

833
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:43.920
<v Speaker 1>it's like, okay, so you center a comic book around

834
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:47.000
<v Speaker 1>an Asian person and he's automatically got to be the

835
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:53.199
<v Speaker 1>best at kung fu because that's what he does. But

836
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:56.519
<v Speaker 1>at least in the move and this and and and

837
00:55:56.599 --> 00:56:00.760
<v Speaker 1>this is a testament to the actor. He felt like

838
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:07.039
<v Speaker 1>he did not feel like a caricature. Well right, exactly, dignity,

839
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:10.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, coming from a real place, not asking for

840
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:10.800
<v Speaker 1>too much.

841
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:11.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't think.

842
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:19.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, Kyle Casey Chow, this has been fabulous.

843
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I could sit and talk with you all day. It up.

844
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:29.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and again I love, love, love love your book,

845
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:36.840
<v Speaker 1>and I cannot recommend it highly enough. It's a delightful story.

846
00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:42.480
<v Speaker 1>It's an easy read. You get in, you get enveloped

847
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and engrossed in the story so easily. And like I said,

848
00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:50.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, every time I picked it up, Bam, fifty

849
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:55.519
<v Speaker 1>pages done went by.

850
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:57.320
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I'll say it to you, it's like kind

851
00:56:57.320 --> 00:57:04.000
<v Speaker 2>of betrayed, just like queer joy gay hug, big gay hug.

852
00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, I love it. Okay, So if we wanted

853
00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:17.440
<v Speaker 1>to learn more about you and your goings on, and

854
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:21.440
<v Speaker 1>more important, most importantly, where to buy the book, where

855
00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:22.039
<v Speaker 1>would we go?

856
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, here's the book catch. I'm just kidding. You can

857
00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:30.320
<v Speaker 2>buy my book anywhere books are sold, so Amazon Bookshop,

858
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Barnes and Noble, or a beloved local indie bookstore. And

859
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:39.360
<v Speaker 2>you can find more about me at kylecaseychu dot com

860
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:44.400
<v Speaker 2>or on Instagram at at Panda Dulce Fabulous.

861
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.039
<v Speaker 1>And I will make sure to include all of that

862
00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:50.679
<v Speaker 1>information in the notes to this episode, because we should

863
00:57:50.679 --> 00:57:53.119
<v Speaker 1>all know more about you and what you do because

864
00:57:53.119 --> 00:58:02.159
<v Speaker 1>you're fascinating period. Oh likewise, that's right, and so I

865
00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:05.880
<v Speaker 1>can't wait to have you back on the show. To

866
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:08.320
<v Speaker 1>talk about the series that comes from it. You know

867
00:58:08.320 --> 00:58:12.679
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying, So let's do it, I mean, or

868
00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:16.360
<v Speaker 1>whatever the hell else you're doing next, because you know,

869
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:19.920
<v Speaker 1>I see nothing but great things for you.

870
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's there's a second book coming out, a sequel

871
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:29.000
<v Speaker 2>to Queen bee Us really. Yeah. It's about a celebrity

872
00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:31.519
<v Speaker 2>drag queen and goes missing and Derek and JJ have

873
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:37.719
<v Speaker 2>to find her work. I know it's not cool. And

874
00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:40.840
<v Speaker 2>then there's a picture book about drag legend Jose Sorry,

875
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:44.639
<v Speaker 2>who founded the Imperial Court System which is a network

876
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:50.400
<v Speaker 2>drag Royalty who raised money for LGBG causes. So I

877
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:52.400
<v Speaker 2>think both are coming out next year or some time.

878
00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:56.519
<v Speaker 2>That's okay, It's a lot.

879
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:02.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm down. Oh I'm really looking forward to the sequel.

880
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:07.360
<v Speaker 1>By the way, so Gila, I'm hooked. Well, thank you

881
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:10.480
<v Speaker 1>so much for joining us at the Full Circle table

882
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:14.400
<v Speaker 1>and I can't wait to chat again.

883
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Charles, thank you and you have a wonderful day too.

884
00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:27.519
<v Speaker 1>Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted by

885
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, produced and edited by

886
00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Never Scurred Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.

887
00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Our theme in music is by the jingle Mary's All Names, pictures, music, audio,

888
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:43.760
<v Speaker 1>and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of

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00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:46.880
<v Speaker 1>their respective copyright holders.