WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.040 Now one of your pudding. 2 00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:04.320 I got a string going on here, something just because 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:04.879 my dog. 4 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:07.320 Something killed your dog. My dog. 5 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:08.960 We're flying through the air over the tree. 6 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:09.599 I don't know. 7 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:14.439 How it did it, Okay, Damn, I'm really confused. 8 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:16.480 All I saw was my dog coming over the fence 9 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:17.160 and he was dead. 10 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:18.000 And once you hit the. 11 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.359 Ground like, I didn't see any cars. 12 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:21.320 All I saw was my dog coming over the fence. 13 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.960 Sat what are you putting? We got some wonder or 14 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:51.439 something crawling around out here. Did you see what it 15 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:52.240 was or was it was? 16 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.719 Standing enough. I'm out here looking through the window now 17 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:57.479 and I don't see anything. I don't want to go outside. 18 00:00:58.240 --> 00:00:59.560 Jesus Quice, you better. 19 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:06.079 Hello, hit the boddy out here? What quin I'm out there? 20 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:06.719 I thought of a. 21 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:08.480 Bitch about tech forty nine. 22 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:08.959 I don't know. 23 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.239 Easy ann ount there, Yeah, I'm working right. 24 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.040 Hey, all right, folks, On Walker my guest to the show. 25 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:18.840 It is the Ban the Myth, the Legend, author, researcher, 26 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:21.439 TV personality speaker, and. 27 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:23.959 Now podcaster Ken Gearhard. 28 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:26.519 Welcome to the show, Man, Thank you, Brian. It's good 29 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:28.120 to see you, brother. It's an honor to be on 30 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:28.400 with you. 31 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.640 Man. Thanks for having me on your show. A big deal. 32 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:32.599 This has been a long time coming, man. I was 33 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:34.920 looking back at some emails we were emailing back in 34 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.640 twenty two to twenty three trying to get this worked out, 35 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:40.439 and it's taken us to twenty twenty six to get 36 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:42.560 you on the show. So I've been looking forward to 37 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:44.560 this conversation for a long time. 38 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.920 Looking to ass I could remember if we'd done this before. 39 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:49.159 I didn't think we had, so that's but it's great 40 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.480 to finally make it happen. 41 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:53.799 This is our virgin voyage together into podcasting. So let's 42 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:55.760 get into it. Man, Let's talk about this bigfoot thing. 43 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:58.480 What in the world got you interested in the subject 44 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.280 of bigfoot sasquatch did? 45 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:00.959 To begin with? 46 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:01.920 Oh? 47 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:03.879 Man, of course, a lot of people ask me that question. 48 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:08.599 It's an unusual career slash following. I just talked about 49 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:10.680 this in my first episode of my podcast this past 50 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:12.400 week because people asked me this so much. But I 51 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.280 had a pretty cool childhood. My dad was a scientist 52 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:18.960 forestry professor from Canada. Both my parents were Canadian, so 53 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.240 I spent a lot of time in the woods and 54 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.039 I love to collect lots of creepy Crawley animals. My 55 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.599 first pet was a Cayman alligator, and I had salamanders 56 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:27.280 and snakes and all kinds of I loved animals. 57 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:28.879 I also loved monster movies. 58 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:29.039 Man. 59 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:30.759 I grew up on Godzilla. 60 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.960 Movies, a Creature from the Black Lagoon, and all that 61 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.240 good stuff. Back in the day, when I saw a 62 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:37.080 TV show, and I think I figured out it was 63 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:38.960 at the latter part of nineteen seventy five, I was 64 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.840 watching Saturday morning cartoons. Scooby Doo was my favorite at 65 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.400 that time. There was a news break they did a 66 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:47.240 segment on Bigfoot. I'd never heard of it before. I 67 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:48.800 was about eight nine years old, and they showed up 68 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.800 clips in the Patterson Gimlin film. They had the pictures 69 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.800 of the guys holding plaster casts, Roger Patterson, Renee Dehn, 70 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:57.360 and whoever man. Something clicked. I thought it was the 71 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.400 coolest thing ever. Here was this thing to be some 72 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.800 kind of animal obviously running around in the wilderness that 73 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:05.520 we hadn't discovered yet. But it also was a monster. 74 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.639 It was like giant and hairy and scary. My mother 75 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.319 was very encouraging growing up. She used to tell me 76 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.840 stories about the YETI and the Mothman and stuff. Took 77 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.120 me the library to check out big Foot books. I 78 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:19.439 saw the Minnesota Iceman exhibit about that time. In the 79 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.039 summer of seventy six. My dad was at the University 80 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.199 of Minnesota who was a professor there, and that was 81 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:28.400 an impactful six million dollar man episode that was happening 82 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:30.879 at the same time. Now, when I was fifteen years old, 83 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:32.599 my mom took me all over the world. She was 84 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:35.159 a travel agent. When I was fifteen years old, she 85 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.960 arranged for me to go to Lockness in Scotland, so 86 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.759 I attempted my first field research. When I was a teenager, 87 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.800 had an eight millimeter movie camera. I would interview people 88 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.680 around the lake and sit out there hoping something would surface. 89 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:48.919 So I never expected to make it a career. I've 90 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:51.159 just been very blessed. It's a passion, if not an 91 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.479 obsession of mine. About twenty five years ago, when my 92 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:56.080 music career was not at a point where I just 93 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.159 wanted to step away, I got lucky and I started 94 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:03.719 hooking up with others for researchers, joining groups, going to conferences, 95 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.759 writing books, and I ended up on my first TV 96 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:08.520 show in two thousand and six, and so it's just 97 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.360 been a really cool experience since then. 98 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:15.800 In addition to authoring of the books, the television shows, 99 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.959 you've done speaking in all the Bigfoot events, traveling around 100 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.920 the world looking for these things. You're a cryptozoologist, and 101 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:25.000 I know that a lot of people on the show. 102 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:27.639 I had to do some digging myself when I first 103 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.360 got into the subject and started looking into cryptozoology. There's 104 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:32.199 a lot of things out there. I think that people 105 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.839 fundamentally just don't understand about cryptozoology. 106 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:37.759 So for the audience, can. 107 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:40.120 You talk a little bit about that, give us your definition, 108 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:42.079 because most people, I think, only see it through the 109 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:43.959 lens of pop culture and maybe they. 110 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.720 Don't get so deep into the subject. So can you 111 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:47.480 talk a little. 112 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.399 Bit about what the definition of cryptozoology is and what 113 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:53.199 it is for you and how you go about the discipline. 114 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:54.879 Ye oh yeah, definitely, thanks for that. 115 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:56.920 As I told you, I grew up, I don't have 116 00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:58.079 any scientific credentials. 117 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:00.279 Admittedly, you don't have to be a cryptoso I'll just 118 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:02.839 per se. I just think you need to be as. 119 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:06.120 Scientific as possible in terms of your methodology and being 120 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.680 objective and critical thinking in those kinds of things. 121 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:10.800 But my father was a scientist. 122 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:15.079 He imparted me with deductive reasoning and he was a statistician, 123 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.560 so it was all about data, collecting data and stats 124 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:18.360 and looking at things. 125 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:21.199 So I try to take that approach cryptosology. 126 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.879 The field was actually created by a zoologist named doctor 127 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:30.560 Bernard Hoffelmans, who was a Belgian slash French zoologist at 128 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.600 the Royal Institute of Natural History in Belgium, and then 129 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:37.040 Ivan T. Sanderson, who wrote a great book in the 130 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.920 nineteen sixties, A Bominable Snowman Legend Come to Life. Those 131 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.800 two guys, both zoologists, founded cryptozoology. They were romantic in 132 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:47.040 terms of thinking that a lot of these legendary creatures 133 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.839 that people talk about, like sea serpent, signettes and the 134 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:54.079 Lockness monster and sasquatch might be not just legends but 135 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:58.600 undiscovered species. So cryptozoology means a study of hidden animals, 136 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.759 that is, animals that are hidden from science scientific recognition. 137 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.800 Pouvelman's original definition basically states that it has to be 138 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.720 somewhat of a remarkable animal in terms of the size 139 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.240 or the sensational aspects of stuff. So something like an 140 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.439 unknown lizard that's this big wouldn't really be I mean, 141 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.079 there are a lot of scientists working on that kind 142 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:20.399 of stuff and field research. But of course scientists are 143 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.600 very reticent to become involved in cryptozoology because it can 144 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.519 hurt their reputations, as we know from our good friend, 145 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:29.560 the late doctor Meldrum. So it's the study of hidden animals. 146 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:33.079 So I try to emphasize the zoology part of cryptozoology. 147 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.360 I look for these things like sasquatches and other cryptids 148 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:38.839 in terms of are they undiscovered species. I think you 149 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.800 can make an argument based on how much of our 150 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.399 planet is still unexplored or at least uninhabited, and how 151 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:47.759 new species are still being found all the time, even 152 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.240 large ones from time to time. 153 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.600 So that's it. 154 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:54.680 I'm very interested, of course in other weird creatures, and 155 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.319 I've written a book about things like the moth man. 156 00:06:57.360 --> 00:06:59.360 I've investigated dog man and. 157 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.399 Pig men and the weird things that are I think 158 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.759 more supernatural or metaphysical. And I guess the reason I 159 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:10.560 get involved with those reports is there is a chance 160 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.279 that some of those could be based on an actual 161 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.079 animal or misidentification of something. Right, you knows, you really 162 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:19.439 have to dove into the stuff. Anyways, A long rambling 163 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:22.519 answer there, But cryptozoology things in my opinion that are 164 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:25.800 not cryptids are things like mothman, dog man, goat man, 165 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.959 black eyed kids, windigoes, skin walkers. They're still cool things 166 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.519 to investigate and cool topics to talk about, but I 167 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.879 don't see any viability for any of those things as 168 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:38.800 being an evolved species on this planet. 169 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:42.079 In your view, where do you think cryptozoology sits on 170 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:47.600 the spectrum between folklore, zoology, anthropology, psychology and why do 171 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:51.399 you think so many people are so uncomfortable with that 172 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:55.360 gray area of cryptozoology as opposed to all those other things. 173 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:57.439 Well, man, that's a good question. 174 00:07:58.199 --> 00:07:58.439 Yeah. 175 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:02.920 Pulvimen's intended for cryptozoology to be a multifaceted discipline. So 176 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:07.600 it does incorporate the fundamentals of zoology, which involves evolution, 177 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.360 natural history, and biology and those types of things. But 178 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.120 also folklore was very important because a lot of things 179 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:16.800 that were discovered around or just before his time, like 180 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.079 the okapi, the Komodo dragon, the mountain gorilla, a lot 181 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:22.480 of those things had a cryptid status in some ways, 182 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:23.720 at least to Westerners. 183 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.399 So it's multidisciplined. As I've been in this a long time, 184 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:28.560 I think all. 185 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:32.039 Good researchers really have to study sociology and psychology because 186 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:36.159 you need to understand human motivations, why some claims are 187 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.559 more sensational than others, why some people claim that they 188 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:41.919 can go in the woods and hang out with sasquatches 189 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.240 versus the rest of us that have to go out 190 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.000 for years and years looking We have to recognize and 191 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:50.759 anthropology is very important because sasquatches do seem to look 192 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.679 like something in our fossil records, some type of ancient 193 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.840 hominin just bigger. All of that encompasses a lot of 194 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:00.320 different schools of elf. 195 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.440 Do you think cryptozoology suffers more from skepticism that comes 196 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.759 from scientists We've talked about scientists already in this conversation. 197 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:11.000 Or do you think it comes from some of the 198 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.559 sensationalized accounts and some of the sensationalism that comes with 199 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.080 and is created by the believers in the field. And 200 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.399 how do you think that has shaped the tension in 201 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:23.320 the field. 202 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:24.799 These are good questions, Brian. 203 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.879 Let me think in terms of Bigfoot, for example, I 204 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:30.639 guess all cryptids really there's been a lot of hoaxing. 205 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:34.960 There's no doubt that hoaxing has been enmeshed with these 206 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.039 creatures in many cases across time and going back many years, 207 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.000 so there's reasons for people to be skeptical. Scientists, as 208 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.440 I mentioned, are reticent to get involved with this kind 209 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.840 of stuff because it could damage the reputation or create 210 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.440 professional problems for them. The general public, I believe, based 211 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.720 on two recent surveys, eighteen to twenty two percent of 212 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:02.200 the population think that foot could exist, So really just 213 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:05.519 one in five people. Everyone loves the idea, it's a 214 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:08.720 great idea, it's fun, it's a legend. But only one 215 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:11.759 in five think that bigfoot could exist. But most people 216 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:14.600 don't immerse themselves in the evidence. They may have just 217 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:18.120 seen like a thirty minute TV show or a YouTube 218 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.600 video or something, and they think, okay, I got an 219 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:23.200 opinion on that. But if you've done this for years 220 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.000 and you see how all these dots connect, as remarkable, 221 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:29.039 as impossible as it seems for bigfoot to exist, I 222 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:32.200 think they probably do. I've never seen one, I'm convinced. 223 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:33.960 I've heard them a few times, and I've seen other 224 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.960 evidence like footprints and physical trace evidence and things, And 225 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.039 of course, I like you, I've spoken to hundreds of 226 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:44.559 people various levels of credibility. I guess that's the other thing. 227 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:46.440 The other part of your question that we could address 228 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:49.320 is there are a lot of sensational claims to the 229 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.159 general public outside of the bigfoot field. They're going to 230 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:55.120 lump us all together. So if there's a person out 231 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.000 there that's saying they telepathically communicate with a clan of 232 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.519 Sasquatches and this and that, there are really no different 233 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.320 than some like that's out there, like trying to use 234 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.279 objective science and find answers that way you've. 235 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.360 Described Bigfoot in the past. I believe is one of 236 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.039 the most compelling cryptids because of the sheer number of 237 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:18.000 the reports. So many people have claimed to have encountered 238 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.279 and seen these things and had experiences with them. What 239 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:24.759 do you think separates sasquatch from other cryptids as far 240 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.039 as the evidentiary weight behind some of the reports. 241 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:29.559 Oh yeah, it's the consistence. 242 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.799 It's the number of reports and accounts, which let's assume 243 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.200 that's a small percentage of the population. Most people probably 244 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.480 don't come out and tell anybody if they've seen one 245 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.320 of these things, right, They're afraid of ridicule. But the 246 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:44.799 consistency of the reports, But there have been analytical studies 247 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:49.440 Brian on sasquatch reports, first by John Green mister sasquatch 248 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.240 back in the nineteen seventies, and then Hunter Fahrenbach in 249 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:52.919 the nineties. 250 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:55.440 There's analytical models. 251 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:58.759 The data fits pretty well together across hundreds or thousands 252 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.360 of sightings. Height described or estimated to seven and a 253 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.159 half feet, that's pretty consistent, the way the hairs on 254 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:09.200 the body, the gait which is described, and of course 255 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:12.600 the very broad shoulders and no neck thing, and so 256 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.000 a lot of these things are very consistent. That's interesting. 257 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.840 And then of course you have the wild man stories 258 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.039 from the nineteenth century and also Native American traditions many 259 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.240 in the Pacific Northwest and across the North America of 260 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:27.000 these quote unquote wild men. So that's one level. Then 261 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:30.279 you have the physical trace evidence, like the footprint evidence, 262 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:34.240 in addition to some handprints and knuckles and butt prints 263 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.320 and other things like that. But the footprint evidence is 264 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:40.879 pretty consistent, the ones that are credible. I'm actually going 265 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:42.639 to be talking about that a lot this year at 266 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:46.080 conferences because I want to carry on doctor Jeff's legacy 267 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:48.480 in terms of what evidence he thought was really key, 268 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.360 So we'll talk about mid tarsal flection. You can see 269 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.639 that on a lot of casts now, all the ones 270 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.279 that are considered most credible. I've even gone back Brian 271 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:00.720 and looking like the Gray's Harbor Trackway Jerry Crust. You 272 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:03.600 can see mid tarsal flection on all of those, like 273 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:08.360 really considered to be really realistic or genuine casts. And 274 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.279 the foot design is so consistent but still shows a 275 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:15.159 level of animation, as Jeff would say, but also genetic variation. 276 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.320 So the physical trace evidence is very convincing. I think footprints, 277 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.799 and then we have the Patterson Gimmin film, which we 278 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.879 could probably do a five hour show on that, but 279 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.679 I think that's very convincing. So it's just how all 280 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.480 these dots connect. It just builds a pretty good case 281 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:32.039 in my opinion. I've been doing this a long time 282 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.840 and maybe I have a little bias, but I tell 283 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.200 people I'm ninety percent convinced that they exist. 284 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.600 That's where I was man until two summers ago. We 285 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.000 were out in the Pacific Northwest. We're out actually at 286 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.639 the headquarters for the Olympic Project when we were filming 287 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:49.480 a documentary, and I had three encounters in two days. 288 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.159 I got to see these things one daytime siding, and 289 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.159 then I got to see them two times at night 290 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:57.320 ten feet away from me. At one point, Oh gosh, 291 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.000 I am definitely convinced one hundred percent. I'm only skept 292 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:03.399 now about people and evidence. I'm no longer skeptical about bigfoot. 293 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.879 But here's one of those questions that has haunted me 294 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.399 and everybody I think that's in this field. After so 295 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:12.759 many decades of all these sightings, the encounters, the footprints, 296 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:18.360 the audio recordings, what do you personally find most difficult 297 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.480 to explain away when it comes to sasquatch? Is there 298 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:24.279 one thing that sticks out to you that you find 299 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.360 more difficult than others, maybe to explain away when it 300 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:29.320 comes to the phenomenon itself. 301 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.240 I mean, there's definitely some red herrings, like the red eyeshine. 302 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:36.919 It doesn't really make any sense zoologically. People talk about 303 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.000 top of them, lucidum and different adaptations. 304 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:41.720 Cliff has an interesting theory about all this. 305 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.159 But red pies that are like seem self illuminating, that's 306 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:46.000 pretty far out. 307 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:47.159 So that's a big problem. 308 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.759 But so many people describe that, and there's a lot 309 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.399 of argument about I mean, they seem habitually by pedal. 310 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.399 But then when you go down in the South, and 311 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.720 I researched for many years in Texas, Louisia, Arkansas, and it, 312 00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.639 oh no, they go down on all the fours all 313 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.200 the time. And I'm like, that doesn't really make sense, 314 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.480 you know, I mean in the big scheme of things. 315 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.480 But as far as the thing that's the most convincing 316 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.600 in terms of evidence, I guess is what you're really 317 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:11.159 asking me. 318 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:14.720 Stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see. 319 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:16.840 We'll be right back after these messages. 320 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:24.279 I think it's the physical trace evidence combined with the 321 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.440 Patterson Gimblon film and maybe a percentage of the eyewitness 322 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.799 accounts that are undeniable where you have multiple eyewitnesses. But 323 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.759 I know there's a lot of arguments to be made against, right, 324 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.360 why don't we have better photographic evidence at this point? 325 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.200 And why hasn't one been road killed? 326 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.799 The guys we're going to say all the roadkill that 327 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:46.600 I see in this country driving around, and even big 328 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.840 things get hit by trucks and stuff sometimes, and you 329 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:51.440 think that might happen eventually, but I don't know. 330 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:52.919 It's a great mystery. 331 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:54.320 This is a two part question. 332 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:56.720 If Sasquatch is a flesh and blood creature, and I 333 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.039 believe that they are, I've always been in the apor camp. 334 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:01.919 I've always been in the flesh blood camp. What do 335 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:03.279 you think for you. 336 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:04.879 Is the strongest. 337 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:09.159 Argument of how they've avoided biological confirmation for so long? 338 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.000 And I guess this is a two part question about 339 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.159 The other question that I get from skeptics all the 340 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.759 time is where are the bodies? How do you respond 341 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:20.120 to those questions now? And has that answer evolved over 342 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.120 the last ten or twenty years that you've been doing 343 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:23.919 this where's the body? 344 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:25.639 I've got a whole chapter on that in my book, 345 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:27.039 The Censior Guide to Bigfoot. 346 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.720 That is the great million dollar question for skeptics. 347 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:32.759 I mean something, these are large animals that weigh eight 348 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:35.759 hundred one thousand pounds. They've had to have a breeding 349 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.679 population for thousands of years on this continent. You think 350 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.279 at the some point a fossilized twos or a bone 351 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.879 or something would have turned up at least. So that's again, 352 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.799 that's a real tough proposition as far as why we 353 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.159 can't find them. I think it's two dynamics at work. 354 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:55.080 One is that they are incredibly rare animals, I think, 355 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:59.519 much less common than people realize. A population estimate model 356 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.080 that I came up with, which actually pretty well matched 357 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.240 one by doctor Grover Krantz and somewhat one that Jeff 358 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:06.680 had done, is that there's probably only about three to 359 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.160 four thousand of these animals in the entire continent of 360 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.440 North America, from Alaska to Canada to Florida. So you're 361 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:15.480 one hundred and fifty times more likely to fight a 362 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.240 bear or remains of a bear. Right, So they're very rare, 363 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.079 probably critically endangered in some ways, but still they may 364 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:27.599 have evolved with a longer lifespan and slower birth rate 365 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.039 or some adaptation to keep them going. The other thing 366 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.119 is that I think that they have evolved with adaptations, 367 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:39.400 behavioral adaptations specifically geared at avoiding humans Homo sapiens. I 368 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.000 think that they recognize I'm not saying they're as intelligent 369 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.400 as we are, but they're intelligent enough to recognize that 370 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.640 we are the one thing that can basically take them out. Right, 371 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.720 they're the apex predators, but they don't like humans, and 372 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.319 they seem to move away from humans as quickly as possible, 373 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.559 Although they do. Occasionally we'll get territorial like many animals 374 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.119 and throw rocks and scream and bang on things, but 375 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:04.480 they're not out there killing people or dismembering people and 376 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:05.039 eating them. 377 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:10.119 They're very reticent. And there are other adaptations, presumably largely nocturnal, 378 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.400 very nomadic, move around a lot, and just good at 379 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:18.599 camouflaging themselves, staying very still standing, buying trees. All that 380 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.079 stuff has ingrained in the reports. 381 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.000 So I don't want to put words in your mouth here, 382 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.200 but I assume when you first got into this, specifically 383 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.880 with Bigfoot, most of the researchers that were in the field, 384 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.559 at least for me, I'll speak for me personally. When 385 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.240 I got into this seriously and started looking into the subject, 386 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.119 most everybody was in the flesh and blood camp. Everybody 387 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.519 thought this thing was a relic, tomanoid of some sort, 388 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:46.319 or a Hamanan of some sort, some undiscovered primate. But 389 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.079 as we've progressed in this, it seems that has changed 390 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:53.920 in the mindset, seems to have went to almost a 391 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.000 fifty to fifty sometimes at seventy thirty even eighty twenty 392 00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:59.960 split of people who believe that it's some sort of 393 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.880 relic tominoid versus somebody on the other side, These people 394 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:08.319 who think that it is potentially an interdimensional being, something 395 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.559 that's dropped off by aliens to use the bathroom when 396 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.440 they're moving throughout the galaxy, whatever it is that people 397 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:17.640 think they do. Hortal potty, hortle potty exactly. 398 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:18.680 Yeah. Yeah. 399 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.480 Have you seen the same shift that I have towards 400 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:26.640 this interdimensional supernatural or extraterrestrial explanation? And how do you 401 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:31.119