Speaker 1: If he makes men freees come a lardlish okay banimitrilas
dinan vopaul dol into the forste di martunker, a gandol nicotine,
a renord, agola, a guess renumera hoko is moshanskagashi at
the back, agasi ni shine frushan Martian taringanol rhine, August
lauerlo Enov find a feeri kif paula nicotine through a
quarter hc puki tall slash veping on hc.
Speaker 2: Mom, Why did they call it Scottish cheese?
Speaker 1: It's cottage cheese, honey. And I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: Did the dogs in other countries speak different languages?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 1: When when we get there, well, we've got to fix
the car first, but there's someone coming to help us.
Speaker 2: Is it the man from Geneva?
Speaker 1: Not Geneva, he's from a Viva. Oh there's the van.
Speaker 4: Now.
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visit a Viva da e to say fifteen percent acceptance
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Speaker 4: Maining A man like this, man letting butterfly, flapping his wing,
big down in a force.
Speaker 2: Man, it gonna cause the tree.
Speaker 5: Fall, letting five thousand miles away. Man, nobody see nobody else.
Speaker 2: You don't need no man like you followed a little
story and you.
Speaker 5: Got directed like that.
Speaker 2: Man, don't black a dang on the piano.
Speaker 6: Man, Man, no matter. Man All right. Edward McLaren, Welcome
to Jay Burden Show. How are you doing.
Speaker 5: I'm doing pretty good. Nice to be here.
Speaker 6: I'm very excited to have you on. We have some
friends in common and as per usual, uh, we had
a pretty interesting conversation or I even hit record, which is,
you know, maybe not professional but interesting. Nonetheless, So I'm
familiar with your work, but some of my audience might
not be. So who are you and what do you do?
Speaker 5: Well? Let me think so.
Speaker 4: In essence, I'm a PhD researcher on English literature and
I was initially doing my PhD project on Jane Austin
and evolutionary psychology. I've changed the topic. They really didn't
want me to do that. But in the meantime I've
also worked as a journalist for Courage Media, which is
an organization that employs color Thomlinson from the Lotus Eaters,
So there are some links over there. And I was
thinking of doing a very long analysis of what's called
the Casey Report, which we got in twenty twenty five
about the grimming gangs. And I was bewildered when I
came across this supposedly stainless document, because you would get
a Maize data on a page from Operation Stovewood about
Rotheram or Rochdale saying that the absolute majority of Grimmer's
were Pakistani Muslims, and then on the same page as
that data, over and over again, you would get paragraphs
saying that you cannot make any cultural or ethnic judgments
based on the data that they have directly presented to you.
And it made me realize that just having the data
in putting it out there isn't good enough, and that
the case Your report had been epistemologically captured. What was
necessary was to not only do a lot of research
into this topic and then make it available, but also
just tell the story of the Grimming gang crisis in
the form of a story, in the form of a novel,
and that's what I tried to do in Bothlefort's Gone,
which is this book that Molden, which is an imprint
of alban has recently released, and I think they've done
a pretty good job, least with how the cover and
the design looks.
Speaker 6: So I followed the release of the Casey Report sort
of at a distance, right, it's sort of difficult in
my mind to truly understand in other countries's politics, albeit
easier in the case of you know, America and the
United Kingdom because they are one so linked and also,
you know, you are sort of our cultural cousins. And
there were several things I noticed, which is one, there
was very much, as you've said, a desire to pistemically
capture this narrative because it's extremely damaging to the preferred
narrative of a certain faction of the cultural elite, right,
the sort of multicultural project. And so I'm curious if
you could, could you describe one why that report was
so important, the process that produced it, and also look
these grooming gates as grooming gangs as a story broke
if I believe over a decade ago.
Speaker 5: What was the.
Speaker 6: Process of creating this report and what has the reaction been,
both from within the government and outside it.
Speaker 5: Well, there's quite a lot there.
Speaker 4: I think the first thing to establish is this report
was written largely in response to another report that I
seem to remember came out in twenty twenty two, and
this report was from the Home Office, and it claimed
that the grooming gang phenomenon was overwhelmingly white men. And
then you had a labor no a Libdan counselor who
was a Wikipedia editor go on the Wikipedia page of
the grooming gangs and define it as a moral panic,
like something that never happened. And so most people see
the Casey Report, the twenty twenty five one, as opposed
to the twenty fifteen one, as correcting that totally botched
operation that went on before it. So my interpretation is
slightly revisionist in this sense, because it's still evidently not
enough in terms of how this has been processed by
people in government. Narratively, it's put a lot of pressure
on them to actually identify the grooming gang thing as
a big issue. But given that the giant bureaucracy that
is partly responsible for denying the existence of this thing
for years and years is still intact. They haven't been
able to cordon people together and perform a successful grooming
gang trial, sorry inquiry that's basically been left to route
but low. The other thing is there's an enormous amount
of reluctance in the Labor Party because so many of
their young voters are Muslims. The phrase girls for votes
adequately described to the situation. Furthermore, there is just testimony
from the mothers of victims that Julie Bindle, who's an
excellent journalist, was talking about in the early two thousands,
who just believed that their daughters were being thrown away
because the anti racist narrative couldn't process their suffering in
any way at all. And they thought it's an awful
shame that votes are more important than little girls, and
they said this repeatedly. In terms of the grooming gang
phenomenon itself and the way that it's been historically reported,
there are a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 5: That people make.
Speaker 4: One of the big ones is thinking that it has
just gone on since the nineteen nineties. Another big one
is assuming that it's all over and that it basically finished.
In twenty eleven, with the arrests of I think Arshid
Hassaying and Basharat as Saying Basha Rat who also flew
to Pakistan whilst his trial was going on. People were
deeply afraid about him fleeing the country. He was permitted
to go home for some reason, and then he came back,
which is very nice of him.
Speaker 5: We have no idea why.
Speaker 4: Actually, we pretty much know that this stuff is going
on now and it's going to be a lot worse.
So in early two thousands, according to the Office for
National Statistics, Britain had about twelve thousand rapes annually, whereas now,
I think this is the most recent data is from
twenty twenty four. It's over seventy seven thousand, which means
we have surpassed Sweden in those terms of immense cultural enrichment. Now,
if the rape rate is that much higher, and the
demography is so much worse, and the cultural capture of
institutions that say you can never ever talk about other
ethnicities in a negative way or at all critically has
gotten much worse, then we would expect the grooming gang
phenomenon to persist and be worse. At the same time,
Maggie Oliver, who was a whistleblower from Rochdale, she's a
former police officer, thinks that London is the keystone, the
intact keystone of the entire operation. We know girls were
frequently being taken to not only London Bradford. So the
idea that it's just these two towns Rochdale Rotherham, I mean,
that's the third big one. That's ridiculous. There's are containment vessels.
For the narrative, I've gone off on a bit of
a tangent, so I'll just I'll keep to the story
of how this thing actually came about in microcosm, and
you can cut me off if you find me boring.
So basically, the way that I put things in the
historical preface of my book, which is a novel, but
I have to have the historical preface, is that this
all really started in nineteen forty eight, and this started
because of Clement Apley's Nationality Act, which meant that former
colonial subjects, many of whom had fought in the Second
World War for the British, could move from their respective
countries and come to Britain. Now, there was push back
against this as soon as it happened, and even Churchill
had this policy of keep Britain white for a while. Also,
supposedly there is a narrative saying that this bill only
was only meant to apply to British people living in
the colonies and trying to leave whilst you had all
of these revolutionary upheavals, say in India, Rdiza and so.
Speaker 5: On and so forth.
Speaker 4: Bridisha is specifically included in the Act, and that there
was some capture of the Workers' Union that had a
role in putting this policy into place. To expand the definition, now,
I need to investigate that in more detail. However, it's
worth speculating on now. What happened then was in the
nineteen sixties there was a British Commonwealth project called, I
think it was the Magya Dam, and this was a
large dam that was built in modern day Kashmir, and
this thing caused the villages around it, the Murpuri villagers,
to flood, and the British government decided that it would
give these displaced people amnesty, and it started bringing in
enormous numbers of Pakistani Muslims in the nineteen sixties, hundreds
of thousands at that point. Now, this is where we
would expect it to start. Jacques did a wonderful analysis
of this sort of thing where they're looking at the
deep history of the gangs and they're looking at all
of these different archives, sorry, all of these different articles
from the British newspaper archives that show that there was
child sex, slavery, there was trafficking, and it had been
going on for a really long time. This then persisted
and continued and was simply not addressed because the kind
of people that go into not only childcare, but academia
and especially criminology, which I think we'll get into in
a second, are exactly the kind of people that bought
Hooklin Sinker into the idea that we are blacks like
human beings, and all cultures are beautiful and if there
are any differences, one must never speak about it. So
then what occurred was in the nineteen nineties, large groups
of Native people were trying to get together and protests
against this kind of stuff. This was seemingly, well, it's
not seeming. This was shut down and they were condemned
as thugs. You had the English Defense League, which was
initially known as the United People of Luton, which was
led by Tommy Robinson otherwise known as Stephen Yaxley something
or other in the early two thousands. And not only
were they protesting Muslims who had been having a go
at soldiers who had then been fighting in various wars
in the Middle East, but also this expanded and it
grew into a protest movement about the booming gangs. There
is an extremely revealing clip of this drunk, young bald
guy who was talking about Muslamic rape gangs. He's not
in the especially bright chat, but he's out there because
he's deeply afraid. And what happened was people like Russell Howard,
the comedian, all over British television were joking about how
this guy says, muslim a ray guns like that.
Speaker 5: There was even a kid, a.
Speaker 4: Pakistani kid at my school who showed me this little
clip of Haha, this stupid chav, look he's doing this
or that. So that's the attitude that the media class
had to this kind of thing, and gradually they've been
forced to acknowledge that this is actually taking place.
Speaker 5: So you had the Alexis j report.
Speaker 4: I think that was in twenty fourteen, and you had
the gang leaders in Rochdale and Rotherham eventually trialed and
put away. However, Rotherham, it's worth noting, only has a
three or four percent Pakistani population, and the same thing
is more or less true of Rochdale. And what someone
like the excellent Peter McLaughlin says his book Easy Meat,
which is the best analysis of the grooming gangs I've
managed to get my hands on, is these people were
frequently going in an out of Bradford. Not only was
this Oldham, Telford, London, pretty much every large urban city
or sprawl. Those cases in Rochdale and Rotherham potentially only
got to trial because the population of the Muslims was
small and you know, you didn't have this community of
people trying to remain silent in order to protect their
own Whereas in Bradford, where I think it's fifty two
percent of the population who were Pakistani, that situation is
almost certainly going to be much much worse. Elon Musk's reporting,
while not reporting, just reposting things on Twitter. In the
last year and a half and Eric Kaufman's articles for
The Free Press have brought an international spotlight on this
sort of thing. But fundamentally, the same people are running
things set a bureaucractic level, and therefore nothing is going
to change unless one does a certain amount of narrative
damage to these people.
Speaker 6: There's a lot there that I want to address. One
of the things you said very early was the sort
of vote for girls, the fact that Muslims are a
major constituent block in the kind of labor voting scheme.
Where does that leave one the white working class it's
an American term, but the working class who traditionally have
been aligned with labor. It seems that that would represent
and I know it did in the sort of last
series of bizarre elections you guys have had. Where does
that voting block go, Because seemingly those would be the people,
as you've just said, you know the chav you're talking about,
you know ray guns in the lake. Where are those
people going? Because seemingly labor is unwilling to address it.
I am very very confident in saying the Conservatives are
completely unwilling or incapable of addressing that issue. Where does
that political energy go?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean we're seeing them either go to reform
or restore but just to focus more on the enemy
for a second. If you look at the most popular
parties among students, that say Ethan or harrow the very
very big elite factories for future leaders of the country.
They love labor and they love the Greens. They looked
for those guys. I mean, it's luxury politics, but it's
gone further than the slightly resentful bourgeois pseudo socialism that
you had around in the seventies and eighties. These people
actually hate the working class. They really despise them. They
hate the fact that they are very salt of the earth.
They are naturally conservative, they appreciate retributive justice, and they
are also nationalists to some extent or another, and they
like the footing. These people cannot stand those guys, and
they see replacement migration as a strategy to shift the
burden that they feel to care for people as good,
you know, bourgeois, upper middle class people. They think, if
you just do away with the proletariat and bring in
an international preletariat the global South, then not only do
you get to feel better because those people are arguably
more helpless, but you also.
Speaker 5: Get to get rid of your enemy. To a certain extent.
As well.
Speaker 4: The other thing, and this is very psychologically obvious when
one goes and meet some of these people, as given
my accent in my class background, is almost inevitable to
me is the fact that, how would I put it,
they regard they regard their work as a kind of
extension of the state, the media, narrative, the Welt and
schwang of liberal democracy, and they are guided by this
strange jahad to create a world where they are I mean,
not necessarily displaced, but they're managerialists who are trying to,
you know, heard different groups of human beings in one
direction or another. They see themselves as those powerful controllers,
and I mean it's almost self consciously juvenilion to a
certain extent or another apologies, I lost my train of thought, not.
Speaker 6: At all, one other thing, or we're talking about voting
blocks in kind of the grossest way. As an outside observer,
one thing I've noticed about British politics is that feminism
occupies the same, maybe not the same, but a similar
kind of sacred role that racism does in America, where
it is a driving force in your politics. And so
when I look at characters like Jess Phillips, who certainly
is quite left wing. She and others like her, and
there are many like her, are placed in a very
uncomfortable situation by the grooming gang scandal because on one hand,
they have defined themselves and their left wingness by in
many cases this feminism, but are sort of stuck due
to these sort of sacred minorities. And so I'm curious,
how is it? I realized the feminist is an incredibly
broad block, But how have those sorts of people reacted
to this skin Where do they find themselves?
Speaker 4: I generally think that they don't even process it. There's
a section in the novel where I talk about this
Arab sitting on a war memorial, having soiled himself there
and drinking beer and then yelling at the main character's mother.
Now that actually happened, and it happened in front of
me in Oxford. And the thing is everyone else around
they just mentally deleted him, They blanked him from existence,
or they pretended it was fine.
Speaker 5: They just didn't process.
Speaker 4: It in any way at all. To this extent, I
think the Cunnley's UK aesthetics account is very, very useful because,
much like Jacob Savage has been credited with naming and
giving weight and reality to anti white male discrimination in
creative fields. Cunnley has put his finger on this thing
UK that we've all kind of known about and we
have seen expanding like Mordor for about the last twenty
to thirty years. We can see that because all of
the UK stuff has been clustered together, the delivery drivers,
the kebab shops. That's egregious, you know, ruination of our
culture in some way or another, or the embarrassment of
prior forms, the work of thecation of Shakespeare. But the
people in the bureaucratic positions who are responsible for prosecutions
within the government, people like Jess Phillips, I don't think
they see that at all. And in fact, some of
these people are extremely angry that the UK thing has
been named and is now common parlance whatsoever. There was
a podcast, a BBC podcast in which these two guys
were talking about it and said, no, this is a
very very bad influence to have. So at the end
of the day, the idea that these people are post
Christians is quite important. They regard charitable work in the
tradition of someone like William Wilberforce as more important than
any actual Orthodox spirituality. And they think it is their
duty to look after these little pets in order to
fulfill their spiritual destiny, to fulfill their tellos. And well,
if we can't have that, if we can't have this
lovely world, multicultural, multicolored world that someone like Michael Jackson
would sing about, then well it's worth pretending anyway. That's
the psychological structure that they have. And because of this bizarre,
infectious disease that they have inherited philosophically, they can almost
get nothing done or they don't want to do it.
And rather than this simply being a top down cover
up organized by some cabal, if you go and look
at the particular files or the police reports referenced in
the Times articles, you see this it's I'm blurring.
Speaker 5: That thing out so that I don't have to go
near it.
Speaker 4: So I don't expect anything positive to come from any
of these people.
Speaker 6: There was an interesting article I mentioned to you before
we went live from New York mag just titled Pizzagate
was not real, right Lestion Mark, And the specifics of
that article are sort of indetermined. This conversation, they're talking
about the Epstein scandal. We are not here, but what's
interesting about that is the framing of that article. The
author is I don't remember which, he's an Ivy League
educated marketing executive, highly compensated, one of what we would
kind of derisively referred to as the PMC professional managerial class.
And he's talking about the new revelations from the recently
released DOJ files. And what's interesting about it is he
frames this for his reader as a situation where the
real crime is that the gammin the Chuds were right.
That's what we're upset about. We're upset that one they
were correct about this, and them being correct puts our
project at risk. He does some sort of lip service saying,
you know, we're trapped between a rock and a hard place,
the dangers to democracy and heavy scare quotes coming from
the rising tides of the conspiracy theorists. And also, oh yes,
of course these pataphiole eats, they are a problem as well.
But I think that that's sort of a revealing article,
not because you know, I have any strong opinions one
way or another on the whole pizza Gate scandal, but
because that mental model, where these horrific crimes are a
problem only so much as they imperil that sort of
Christianity without Christ globalist and I mean that not in
out S Jones sense, but global project that is, you know,
the highest, the most sacred goal. And I think it's
sort of revealing that he is. Any others I've read
this article before are upset about the damage done to
the narrative more than the very real human.
Speaker 4: Cost the rising tide of conspiracy theories against New York
Times estate.
Speaker 6: Rivers of Blood. But we'll change out the too much.
I want you to know, Edward, this is a very
serious episode, but Rivers of Chud might be the title
of it because it's too funny to let go.
Speaker 5: Why not? That's good enough?
Speaker 4: Well on this topic, I think the example that immediately
comes to mind is Nick Lowells, who's now head of
Hope Not Hate. I believe this was back when he
was running Searchlight, which was this left wing magazine, arguably
with intelligence connections. The Communists really didn't like those guys
at all. They regarded them as an MI five unit
to some extent or another. But he was writing this
article in the early two thousands about the grimming gangs,
which are better described as sort of I don't know,
sexual terrorism enforcement units of one kind or another, about
how this is a really big problem because it gives
energy to the far right, y'all. And it means that
it means that Nick Griffin and the British National Party
are going to be emboltant by this kind of thing.
I mean, who cares about the terrorist attack that has
occurred in your little village. I mean it could feed
the far right. It could you know, lead to endless
streams of chruds forming great rivers of some variety or another.
It's all they really care about. And further than that,
I believe a lot of these people they assimilate these
that they assimilate themselves to newspapers. They regard the New
York Times or the Washington Examiner, or in our kin
through the Financial Times or the Guardian as the biological
extension of themselves. And if you damaged the reputation of
the newspaper or the BBC, I mean, you can effectively
see their health bar go down in real time. This
occurred quite recently with Trump threatening to sue the BBC
because during one of their documentaries, hilariously enough, on conspiracy theories,
they took his capital speech and they spliced one part
of it in another part of it to make it
seem like he was inciting violence when he was not.
And the looks and the faces of these types who
adore the BBC, as you know, the embodiment of Lord
Reith's noble mission in the early twentieth century to educate
the masses and raise them up. I mean they were
distraught about that sort of thing. I mean in America,
but also in our country. People feel like this about
the universities as well. I've been two different universities. When
I was in Edinburgh, one third of the people were Chinese.
One third of the people were Indians. The Chinese did
not speak English, many of them. And the articles that
they would produce at that stage they weren't Ai written,
but there would be tutoring businesses that they were running
with each other in order to put those articles in.
And sure enough, if you tried to bring this up
with anyone, then it was your fault because you suddenly
awakened them to the reality of the situation. Why do
you have to point that out. It's like you've done
it to a certain extent. God, I hate that Nick
Griffin is mentioning the grooming gangs and the British National
parties reporting on this is somewhat useful. Oh, he's caused
it in essence, So they really like to shoot the messenger.
And this is a trait that I haven't actually heard
talked about very often, but they do because the narrative
is their entire world. They don't really have anything else
in any of them.
Speaker 6: Certainly, I'm glad you brought up It was very similar
to my experience in academia. Large school in a very
out of the way area, small town, giant university in
the middle of it, and there were Chinese enclaves, whole neighborhoods,
you know, new built homes where you know, Chinese billionaires
would buy their children fancy houses. I mean, I remember.
It's it's sort of one of those you know, like
like the the moment you were talking about with the
Arab where it's sort of this this perfect cinematic moment
burned in your brain, you know, walking through the snow
in a second hand coat, and you know, two Chinese
kids pull up in a brand new Lamborghini illegally park
it and walk in. I'm like, wait, wait a minute,
was what's going on here? And fair enough. You know,
maybe if they were you know, every one of them was,
you know, Inn Einstein, a Rhodes scholar. There's something to it,
but you would go to classes and you'd say, wait
a minute, you're all cheat, I mean shamelessly and to
your point, right, it is this, this institution, it's sort
of is in much the same way as the kind
of you know, magic dirt you hear spoken about with
the immigration. It's sort of this magical place where the
institution is simply you know, the place with a name,
and you can change the people out, you can change
what it does. But it is almost like a temple.
It is on its own sacred and unquestionable. And also
when we're talking about shooting the messenger, I think that
you've you've seen this with the sort of bizarre reaction
to certain figures who are above and beyond anyone else,
kind of burned in effigy. Nick Griffin is a great example,
but in America it's Alex Jones, who has an audience
but is by no means the largest voice, even early
you know, on you know, supporting President Trump or others.
But he was early enough that he sort of became
a shibbalth He became a symbol of that message, and
so it became his fault that we live under Cheetoh Hitler.
And so he's been slapped with a truly absurd series
of lawsuits. Right, you know, he owes the GDP of
most African nations to any different you know, that collective
of other random people, just because again that class hates him.
He is the designated messenger. And he has become and
I've not We've seen this over and over again, that
become that man becomes conflated with a broader trend. And
you see this as well with President Trump. Not a
maga guy per se, but he was a man who
identified certain trends, you know, trends with our American working
class people who were unserved by the kind of eternal
Obama Reich that you know, a large part of our
government seem to be cunning for. But he is the
he becomes the reason for that. He becomes the reason
that there are those questioning in that kind of grand project.
I want to return to the grooming gang scandals because
the other trend I've identified from the outside looking in
is it seems as if the level of public discontent
is rapidly rising. We have seen a series of protests
to riots, depending on your view on the coverage there,
but also sort of a gorilla marketing campaign, you know,
painting the St. George's flag. And so I'm curious if
you can, can you speak to the kind of attitude
on the ground, how are people feeling? And again, this
scandal's been going on for near enough to twelve years now,
and is there a way to resolve it, to put
it to bed, and if so, is that something that
the government is capable of doing, because it seems as
if this has become an albatross around the neck of
effectively every government in power. Sorry, Edward, several questions there,
but I'll let you pick whichever wants.
Speaker 5: I'm here for it.
Speaker 4: In essence, they have, well not only the government, but
the ruling elite that we have. They are being asked
to attack this protected client group, as bertrand Juvenal would
call them, in order to win back some of this
other client group. But the behavior of the one client
group is so utterly unforgivable and the group is so
sensitive that they're really worried about what they're to do.
There's also the crime aspect of this, the potential uprisings
that would come. There was a complaint that was upheld
againainst a police officer in Rotherham was I think it
was a police he was a chief constable. And this
guy was talking about a pa k I rape and
molestation that's literally what he called it to this little girl.
And he was shouting at her and her father and saying,
I quote, because it's Asians. There's nothing we can do
about it. That they're afraid of these people popping off
as they say. And this is a very common trend
that one gets in policing, one gets in academia. It's
best letting sleeping dogs lie, even if the cost of
letting those sleeping dogs lie is seventy seven thousand rapes
a year, and god knows how much else. Given that
our police are unstaffed, there isn't much morale and they've
been trained to meet and identify diversity quotas over protecting
children from groups whose tendencies we have known about out
for about I don't know, six hundred, seven hundred years.
I mean, this goes back before the seventeenth century where
areas of England, Portsmouth, cornwool were raided for barbary trade,
slave barbie, for Barbari trade slaves, sex slaves of one
kind or another. This was Moulay Ismail, the Sultan of Morocco,
who was doing this kind of thing. Those trends had
been baked into English consciousness in not only that period,
but they were crystallized in the nineteenth century before we
decided that we actually had to forget everything at every
single level. Let me think about some of the other
things in terms of the nature of the grim and
gangs and what exactly this kind of stuff entailed. There's
an excellent book by ed Dutton which is specifically looking
at the those psych reasons for this kind of thing,
which is called the Silent Rape Academic Epidemic, and it
looks at the situation in Ulu in Finland. And one
of the details that is worth bringing in because I
think it's sufficient to horrify the audience, is there was
a thirty year old woman who was a member of
the Lutheran Church who went home with two refugees. This
would have been in the I think mid two thousands,
and they not only cut her clitterers off, but they
then inserted the scissors inside her afterward, and that kind
of thing, backstreet abortions with hooked implements from men like
Mohammad Karah around Oxford in places, in places like the
Nanford guest House, which is one of the most haunted
buildings I'd ever passed.
Speaker 5: It is right next to Ithlely. It's all there and
it's based.
Speaker 4: The amazing thing about doing the research is that one
finds that it's places that he's been familiar with for
his entire life. You flash back in a way and
think about what might have been happening there or then
it's kind of like the experience of the UK thing,
whereby suddenly all of this stuff becomes real and it's
been hidden by these veils of narrative your whole life.
But it's worse than that, because suddenly there are these
specters and these figures in your past, and it makes
you worry that one was too concerned about anti racist
dogmas to do anything about it, or to go and
help someone. I'll return to the question now that I've
remembered it in terms of how people are feeling. I
was at the United the Kingdom rally in order to
report on it piece of gonzo journalism hence my Twitter tag.
And the working class people who were there. Their opinion
was that the next election isn't just an election, it's
a referendum on liberal democracy itself.
Speaker 5: And if we have another.
Speaker 4: Situation where Axel Rudy Cabana or someone like him, one
of his fans, there are plenty of these people that
celebrate the murder of those three girls and the stabbing
of thirteen others just on Twitter. You can find them
once in a while. If we have another one of those,
if we have another imitator, they are not going to
wait around for police. These people told me we're going
to kill him. We're going to hang this person. So
either the government gets its shit together and does the
kind of stuff that juvenile recommends in on Power, whereby
a medieval monarch permits the peasants to you know, go
and hang one of their persecutors, or just you know,
takes the guy's head off himself, or just throws them,
you know, mass remigrates them to wherever. I'm concerned about
what's coming. I do think the civil war narrative is overblown.
But the idea that we're heading to a mafia future,
that the very interesting Mike Maxwell talks about that seems
ever increasingly likely. The other thing is this is a
very class divided issue. So if you're insulated, if you're
in one of the vanishingly whiter towns, as I call it,
chances are you don't really know what everyone's complaining about.
You have an entirely different information stream. You regard yourself
as one of these guardian head types who is an
extension of a newspaper and doesn't want to go on
X because of disinformation. And as a result, when these
people are talking about the decline of the country, either
they're thinking about very difficult historical processes man or they're
thinking taxes are too high. Guess I've got to go
to New York now, just move out with the family.
They have no commitment to the culture besides the institutions
the culture has produced, and if things get bad, and oh,
we'll just go to Spain, leaving behind the peace. Who
don't have that as an option. So it's kind of
like everyone has retroactively tacitly calculated the risk that what
is coming will post to them, and their response is
to some rendition of that. So yes, that's basically my
answer as sprawling as it was.
Speaker 6: Look, I mean, I asked you ten questions in twenty seconds,
and I think you did an annimal job of they answering.
I agree with you on the Civil war narrative. To me,
as presented, it seems overstated. But and again, this is
metered through the Internet, so there are any number of
distortions that that can produce. But at the same time,
that reaction you're speaking about doesn't surprise me because at base,
what is the social contract? It's basically a protection racket
with extra steps. Right, I'm under your authority in exchange
for X, Y and Z, and the social contract in
your country and ours as well, but even more dramatically
is completely and totally shattered, completely and totally broken. You know,
this is what you see in the kind of one
two punch of that you know, Nicked thirty ands meme
and oh what is the source that that game that
came out, the interactive one that produced Amelia. They've taken
it down now, but I thinks but point is right.
It's it's now somewhat difficult to find that this character
sort of lives on Immortal. But you see the two
sides of that rat one this kind of crushing despair
on the economic front right with you, youth, unemployment, the
price of housing, the difficulty of you know, advancing yourself.
And when I look at previous generations in my own
nation who had access to unprecedented amount of economic and
social opportunity, you can sort of understand why previous version
of these sort of scandals on issues like immigration, on
issues like cultural degradation didn't come to the fore because
you know, as you've said, with the you know, the
vanishingly few white towns, it seems very distant. But as
those problems increase, they become much more difficult to deny,
and the response from power, the response from the state,
is this sort of hectoring school principle. The problem is
that you've noticed the problem is that you've said something
about it. The problem is that you have found others
who share those beliefs. It is and I will say
this in a way that my counsel will approve. That
conclusion of well, then I will do X y Z
myself is a logical, if illegal one. And in other
countries that are further along that descent into a mafia state,
I think of South Africa, that is quite common, even
from the African population if you follow it all accounts
like my buddy in Canaan Reaper are others who run
private security companies in South Africa. One of the things
you will see, not for the weak apart, is community
justice that the police cannot be depended on. And so
if someone is caught stealing, they beat him, stuff him
in a tire and set him on fire. Not a
good thing. You don't want to live in a society
that does that for any number of reasons. But on
a certain level it is rational. We cannot depend on
the apparatus of the state. There is no monopoly on violence.
There are crimes going unredressed, and so regardless of if
that is a morally good thing to do, set that
issue aside. It is a rational human calculation when faced
with this sort of predation. And so I think that
that reaction is not surprising to me. And I think
that what I find just baffling coming from your government
is it seems as if they believe they can just
keep their heads down and this will all go away.
And maybe in twenty fifteen you could lie to yourself
and say that, but this issue is stuck around forever,
and the level of violence seems to be increasing. I
don't know, Edwards sort of a rant from me there,
But to me, the most stunning thing about this is
the just the failure to recognize the very real crisis
sort of building from within, the kind of I guess
you would say, the kind of traditional power apparatus of
of Britain.
Speaker 4: Well, they want to be dead before the real suffering comes.
I mean, how many people come out with a platform
saying we have I think it's a fifty percent abortion rate,
half of all births, and we know whose births we
have what a third of children as a consequence of
phone addiction and COVID nineteen being basically unable to read.
The average age of an engineer in this country is
in the mid fifties. The boomers have not transferred their skills.
The infrastructure is going to start collapsing one way or another,
and standards are going to get demonstrably lower. We're also
fatter than we've ever been before. We're more insane than
we've ever been before. We're all dependent on, you know,
various courses of substances of some kind or another. This
is sort of what does away with the Civil War
theory in certain people's minds.
Speaker 5: But we're just too useless.
Speaker 4: I mean, we're like the fat grub humans, the felaheen,
the guelo, which is a lovely Chinese anti white insult,
which means something like white monster. So who knows, maybe
the Chinese version of white monster. It just says guelo
on it, meaning you piece something along those lines. The
thing that prevents me from being so anti civil war,
unwilling to consider it is the fact that now it's
not just working class people who say Muslamic ray guns
and are totally justified in doing that. It is upper
middle class people. It's people basically. I don't know about
your background, but I would say our background who know
that the way that the state functions ultimately is to
move resources from the productive class who pay all the taxes,
who in Britain.
Speaker 5: Are the native population.
Speaker 4: They are the only group, as released recently by the Ons,
who actually make net tax contributions be given to another grip.
So why exactly should I invest my time and energy
in keeping the system around in any way at all?
I mean, there is no logical explanation for that. There
are just these ideological mirrors and shields and narrative curtains
that are swept back and forth in order to hind
strange and odd objects that one is not meant to see.
It's like living in a David Lynch film. To a
certain extent, Thomas Hobbs calls the social contract, well at
least what you call the social contract, the protection and
obedience clause. And he's mainly talking about a post feudal society,
but he's using feudal examples. In his mindset is partly feudal,
but we won't get into that. In essence, if you
want the peasants to pay taxes or be okay with you,
as the feudal lord extracting either food resources, maybe gold
or something like that from them, you have to look
after them, and you enter a feud. If say, someone
from a different feudal structure comes into your feudal structure
and let's say murders a young girl or sets fire
to a barn or something like that, you are in
direct conflict with this other feudal leader, and that is
the precondition for you having any power whatsoever. I mean,
what are people meant to do in this situation? The
protection and obedience clause is completely collapsed and we are
now governed by what someone like evil would call a
civitas diabolus or a city of the devil. Just to
bring this back to my main point, if the people
who went to the United the Kingdom march are the feet,
the sort of foot soldiers for this potential new faction,
and are really really angry and what to be led
the arms the kashatria, to use the old Vedic terms,
the arms are the upper esh management in Reform UK.
And these guys I met when I went to the
Reform conference. They're usually very successful. They don't get jobs
in you know, the system. They don't get jobs in
the cathedral, in academia, in news or anything like that,
any of the offshoots. They tend to be farmers. They
tend to run their own businesses, and they're all very
successful and quite smart. It's people like Rupert Low in essence.
These guys, they already have their grandchildren, they have everything
taken care of. They're usually between the age of forty
five and seventy two, and not only are they angry
and competent, but they have the skills to run organizations
well that aren't just you know pusillanimous, biolininist pseudo operations
that actually work with corruption built into them. These guys
know how to cut the Gordian knot of any sort
of political organization and then make it run well and
get rich, get rid of all the dead wood, all
the sort of useless writers and grafters of some kind
or another. Well not grafters, but you know basic you know,
social parasites of some kind or another. So you have
those people who are the feet, you have these people
who are the arms. What's now happening is you're getting
the heat. It's a political breach birth. It's like a
baby being born feet first and then coming out head last.
And those are people who are very well educated who
go to major universities and realize, I mean, my friend
Harrison Piers is probably the best living example of this
kind of thing, that it's better to just go in
with this new thing that's coming out than by any
of the ridiculous and stupid pieties that are associated with
the system as such. So this is a vanguard that
is emerging because of forces that are latent within the
system itself and what mass immigration has done, and there
is no way of averting this especially since if I
don't know that the government wants to bribe me to
be on their side, they are insulting all of these
client groups that they have recruited to be on site,
who have been told that their entire lives that I
am the enemy and anything that I do is to
their detriment and we can't possibly get along. So we'll
have to see if this happens democratically, because I basically
regard Restore Britain as this intellectual head that is going
to be the cultural vector that combines the foot soldiers,
the arms and so on into this, you know, sort
of bionicle of one description or another that then bravely
fights the enormous Liniathan of the state. There's no way
of undoing this. This is built into the system. This
is built into the way that things are.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 6: And one of the things that I've been speaking about
on this program for quite some time is that the
patronage network of both our government and Europe has poisoned
their own well. This is sort of the inverse or
sort of the negative or that savage article you mentioned earlier,
where because you have artificially kept out two and a
half generations of competent young men from the system as
it stands, you have a immense amount of people who
are capable, competent, and underperforming right not necessarily in all
cases due to their own actions, who feel as if, well,
even if I wanted to take that deal, even if
I wanted to put my head down, you know, join
Corporate America or join the the d n C, whatever,
I will simply not be allowed to. Chuds need not
apply if you will. And so it's created this this
sort of untapped human resource of people who and as
you go through kind of concurrent scandals, whether it is
you know, the pandemic, whether it is our relation to
a certain Middle Eastern democracy, or in this this Epstein
scandal as well, who realized more and more like I
can a deal cannot be made, I cannot work within
this system. And it is sort of this interesting system
where this interesting situation, rather where the the same patronage
network which made the left so powerful over the last
one hundred years became cancerous. It became instead of being
a drag on the system, you know, where you're you're
siphoning off surplus, to affecting the actual functionality of the
machine of you know the state itself. And again I
think that this is what's and don't get me wrong,
what Savage is describing what others have pointed out, you know,
Bloomberg talking about you know, where corporate America is pulling
their new hires from. That is very much a problem.
It's a bad thing, and I have a great deal
of sympathy for my friends and peers myself, to be
perfectly honest, you know, who were forced to pursue alternative
careers because of it. But at the same time, from
the perspective of the movement, whatever you want to constitute
that is is a perspective of a dissident. You couldn't
ask for a better moment. Your enemies have voluntarily decided
to stand you know, to to you know, stand up,
you know, their operation without capable, competent people, they do
not want them. And fair enough, and I thought that
your analogy of the breach birth excuse me was particularly
apt because many of the the early adopters, those first
on the scene, the guys who got burnt, like Griffin
and others. Even if he is you know, upper middle class,
I believe he went to university, but that organization was
very much working class coded, you know that term, and
clearly it was not able on its own, you know,
you could look at the Tea Party or Mega the
other kind of you know, right wing movements in America
were not able to actually affect a change. But it
seems as if you were correct, we were witnessing, in
different forms on both sides of the Atlantic, the birth
of a political vanguard, which is incredibly exciting and one
of the things and I will not name any of
my sources on this, so trust me, but one of
the things that I've found very interesting is the number
of people I have met through right wing politics who
are in either that sort of the arm category, right
the coulocks, you know, the capable men who aren't necessarily
you know, fortune ten CEOs, but are capable leaders. I
am meeting more and more of those, you know. I
think at the last OGC event, you know, in my
small town, had probably fifty guys there, and of them,
you know, one of the moones, a large contractor, you know,
he's got a few dozen employees. It's like, Okay, that's
interesting to me because you have something to lose, right,
You're not just one of you know, one of us, right,
you know, a young man with you know a little
more latitude about what you can you can risk too
much time. And I think that, yeah, yeah, yes, I
think that that is a very encouraging sign because you're
starting to see the birth more and more of a
fully formed political animal instead of you know, just a
pair of feet sort of stomping around. But Edward, this
has been fascinating. I'll have to come on or I'll
have to have you on again soon. And actually, while
we were talking, I bought your book, so I may
have you on for a book review. But uh, other
than that, your your novel. Where where can people find you?
Speaker 4: I'm Anglican Gonzo on Twitter. I have some articles for
courage media as well. That's pretty much it. When someone
shows up at my home address, so I'll know where
they actually can find me.
Speaker 5: Fair enough.
Speaker 6: Never had that happen. I've had people threatened. But we'll see. Anyway, Edward,
this was Edward, this was fascinating, a bit grim, but
nonetheless very comprehensive. I highly recommend people check you out
on social media, as far as my stuff, The Jay
Burton Show, Apple, Spotify YouTube. If you're listening to this,
Sorry about the last episode, my editing software decided to
loop the first twenty minutes of the last episode twice.
Sorry about that. I've fixed it, so if you're wondering,
the episode with Andrew Edwards is good now. My own
incompetence aside. If you've decided for some reason to support
me after that, staff who, you can throw me a
few bucks on Patreon, Substack or gum road. You're chilling
during my show, Edward, go on and you get the
episodes early in ad free again. Man, this was a
ton of fun. I appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. It's been great.
Speaker 6: Never went home. Keep your height up, good night.
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