WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.120 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to 2 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.679 you today about a way that you can help support 3 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.199 the podcast if you're not already to support the channel 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.880 is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon 5 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.919 memberships that start at just five dollars a month, and 6 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.600 when you sign up, you get access to all of 7 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.839 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. 8 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.000 I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for 9 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.920 our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.320 that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if 11 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.280 you'd like to, and we really appreciate that, So go 12 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.640 and check us out at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse. 13 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:52.359 Special Operations Cobert ask me and I the Team House 14 00:00:53.399 --> 00:01:06.480 with your hopes, Jack Murphy and David Park Episode two 15 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:08.799 and ninety nine. I'm Dave Park. 16 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:12.719 Jack is out right now we welcome our special guest, 17 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.959 your Iyah Pot. Thanks for being here right, came all 18 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:16.799 the way up to see us. 19 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:18.599 Deeply appreciate it. 20 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:22.959 Real quick, I'm gonna bang out our sponsor for tonight. 21 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:25.799 So let me tell you guys first, I am a 22 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:31.640 very hot sleeper, like a miserably hot sleeper. I wake 23 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:33.079 up my pillows soaking wet. 24 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:34.959 I have to have a fan on me if it's 25 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.000 not at least sixty eight sixty five degrees. But if 26 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.079 you sleep pot at night like I do, you know 27 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.959 just how disruptive it could be. Whether you're having trouble 28 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:46.359 falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the. 29 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.359 Night, or all the above. 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Again, that's go sped 51 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:09.400 dot com with the code house at checkout and say 52 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:12.840 a wopping fifty percent off. So guys, go check them out. Yeah, 53 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.719 they've got a lot of great stuff. Back to you, 54 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:18.280 all right, thank you so much for being here. We 55 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:19.199 really appreciate it. 56 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:20.319 No, no, thank you. 57 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.879 So you know, we like to start this story off 58 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:26.800 with your story, your origin story. 59 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.159 How did you grow up and what led you into 60 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:33.599 the military. Oh, so that's a that's going way back. 61 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:34.759 So I was. 62 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.840 I was born in a small town in Jasper called Jasper, Indiana. 63 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:41.719 It's right next to French Lick, Indiana. If anybody knows 64 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.680 Larry Bird. Okay, so Larry Birds from French Lick. Jasper's 65 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.039 a little small town right beside of that. Grew up 66 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:52.919 in a trailer next to my grandmother's house until that 67 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:58.199 burned down. My my mom and dad ended up splitting up, 68 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:02.199 and my mom moved to Florida and I went to 69 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:08.319 beauty school where she met my current father and they 70 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:12.039 got married. And then my dad joined the army shortly after, 71 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:19.519 I think around in nineteen eighty two, and so so 72 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:24.639 he joined, had some had some had some other siblings, 73 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:27.480 so I got some brothers. Went to high school in 74 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.600 Fort Knox, So I kind of grew up around the military. 75 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:32.959 It's a long way to say I grew up around 76 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.000 the military. That's really all I knew. So my father 77 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:40.480 was in, his father was in, and so I really 78 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:43.000 didn't know anything else. I grew up in the DoD 79 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.639 school system, so a lot of folks may not know 80 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.839 what that is, but the government actually has high schools 81 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:53.079 non military installations. And so I went to Fort Knox 82 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:59.959 High School and then we moved to Hawaii. My scene 83 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:01.839 your years. So my dad was a drill startant on 84 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:06.399 Fort Knox. Then he became a warrant officer and then 85 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:11.360 went to the twenty fifth Infantry Division in Hawaii, and 86 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.240 I graduated high school and then after high school, I 87 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.160 wanted to do something, so I enlisted in the army. 88 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.480 So that's the reader's digest version of how I went 89 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:24.639 from just basically a kid growing up around the military, 90 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:26.680 and then that was the thing that seemed like it 91 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:28.439 was the right thing to do, or the things that 92 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:29.279 everybody was doing. 93 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.360 Well, I'm sure that your dad had Oh maybe he didn't, 94 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.319 But did he have like like strong opinions about what 95 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.720 you should do in the army, like what the best 96 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:39.480 jobs would. 97 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:40.160 Be or anything like that. 98 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:46.480 Not really actually, probably like most I'll say, well, I 99 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.519 don't want to generalize, but I'll speak for myself because 100 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.959 I got three sons who have all served. They didn't 101 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:54.360 want me to go in the military. The actually wanted 102 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.920 me to go to school, and I didn't want to 103 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.000 go to school. I wanted to get out of the house, 104 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.560 you know. I think my general it was all about 105 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:03.439 not staying at home. It was about getting out of 106 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.600 the house as soon as possible, and the military was 107 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:12.879 the way to go. I my dad actually swore me in, 108 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:14.480 so that was pretty cool. He was a warn officer. 109 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.439 He actually swore me in. He Uh. They had just 110 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:23.199 moved to Germany and from Oklahoma, as he was finishing 111 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:28.439 warn officer school and I had to fly to Germany. 112 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:33.920 I did my the MEPs process in Oklahoma, flew to Germany. 113 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:38.680 He swore me in and I enlisted to be a 114 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:40.720 I think at the time it was called the ninety 115 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:45.160 one Bravo. It wasn't a healthcare specialist. I think it was. 116 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:47.600 It wasn't a combat medic. I think it was like 117 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.560 a medical specialist. That's where it was. It was a 118 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.439 medical specialist. I think everything was called a specialist at 119 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:54.480 the time, so it was a medical specialist. So a 120 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:58.240 field medic. And I think he actually wanted to be 121 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:00.680 a field medic but ended up being a field artillery men. 122 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:06.680 So they didn't have any issues with it. And and 123 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.040 I had selected at the time used to be able 124 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.600 to pick station A Choice, and I had just got 125 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.279 to Hawaii and finished high school and Hawaii was pretty cool. 126 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:19.439 So I signed up for Station A Choice. That's the 127 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.519 option I picked, and I went back to Hawaii. 128 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.879 So what year was this that you en listened? So 129 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:28.279 I enlisted in ninety six, ninety six? 130 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:32.199 And what was it about being a medic or medicine 131 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:33.360 that it appealed to you? 132 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.199 I wish I had a good story. It was it 133 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:42.000 was the best choice of what was offered, right, you know, 134 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.040 you got used to when you go to MEPs, they 135 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.480 give you that print out and there was like four 136 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.920 or five jobs on it and like you know, patroleum 137 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:53.079 supplies specialists, like a lot of things that really didn't 138 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.000 really sound great. 139 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:55.800 Yeah, so. 140 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:00.000 It sounded pretty good and it allowed me to get 141 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.839 station of choice. So I picked that, and I'm actually 142 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.879 glad I did. I fell in love with, you know, medicine, 143 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:08.279 and I'm doing that still to this day. 144 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:12.920 So so you go out to be a medic at 145 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:14.800 a twenty fifth ID, No. 146 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:19.040 So I initially started out at Tripler, Okay, So yeah, 147 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:21.160 I got double lucky, right, I got Hawaii and then 148 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.399 ended up in a hospital. And for anybody who served 149 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:29.240 pre Gwatt, not everybody was excited about going to a 150 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:31.920 field unit. Yeah, like because you were going to do 151 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.240 field stuff and going to the field was not a 152 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.759 cool place to be. Maybe it is now, but back 153 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.200 then it kind of wasn't. 154 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:40.960 So I. 155 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:45.159 Went to a hospital, ended up being a er medic 156 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:49.240 and got to learn a lot, had some great mentors 157 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:51.840 there who I'd later go back and serve. 158 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:52.799 With so I did that. 159 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:55.480 But I did get a chance to go to twenty 160 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.279 fifth like halfway through my tour there because it's an 161 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:04.320 overseas tour, So I volunteered for an exchange program and 162 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:07.720 then went to become a light infantry medic. So I 163 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.919 switched units, went up to the twenty fifth, did twenty 164 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.799 fifth things, go to Ariosoult School there and and I've 165 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.000 got to be a field medic and get to learn 166 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.879 what digging in a fighting position is. And digging a 167 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.360 straddle trench in the red clay dirt with an e 168 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:27.039 tool wasn't really cool, but I imagine experience. 169 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:28.720 I imagine that pre Gyt. 170 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:33.480 I worked at Balboa for a very short period of 171 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:39.120 time in the ear there, and I think that you know, 172 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.600 pre Gyt, it was. It was a pretty cool place 173 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.279 for a medic because you've got to do a lot 174 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:50.200 of things that you know that somebody that's somebody that 175 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:54.440 was like an EMT B and probably in any EMTP 176 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.960 in some cases wouldn't get an opportunity if you had 177 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:01.080 doctors that were really into teaching, you know, they'd teach 178 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.240 you how to throw shooters, they teach you like tons 179 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:03.720 of stuff. 180 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:09.240 One hundred percent I can distinctly remember. So when I transitioned, 181 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.440 I exactly that. I had a doc who taught us 182 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.360 like things like, uh, you know, shoulder reductions, when you 183 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:21.000 put a shoulder out, that'll come into play doing uh yeah, 184 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:24.240 just doing like in gtubes. You know, I got do CPR. 185 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.159 You know, I got to do CPR and people who 186 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.840 were in cardiac arrest, I got to sew people up, 187 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.039 got to learn how to shoot your So you're you're 188 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:34.600 exactly right. When I transitioned up to the twenty fifth, 189 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.799 we had a guy they're doing like squad X of 190 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.399 ols and you know, out in the field out at 191 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:43.919 East Range, and one of the guys had threw his 192 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.399 shoulders out, and like I got to be the I 193 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:49.360 got to be the hero. So I like I learned 194 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.840 sheet maneuvers on how to like kind of strap them 195 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:57.440 down and reduce the shoulder and you know, put it 196 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.559 back in place. And the guy got to ride all 197 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.240 the way back from East Range with his shoulder end 198 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.600 socket versus out, which would have been painful as hell, 199 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:08.000 bump right into a bumpy humbee all the way back. 200 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:11.519 I'd been a long ride. And so so yeah, I 201 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.320 learned a lot of I got to cut my teeth 202 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:16.559 there in the er, and and I kind of attribute 203 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:21.000 a lot of that initial learning and just the passion 204 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:22.559 for being like a good medic. 205 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:24.080 Yeah, that's really cool. 206 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:27.639 I would also say that there's probably no experience like 207 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:31.480 a military er on pay day Fridays. 208 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:37.120 Oh yeah, especially in Hawaii and Marines, so you got 209 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:41.679 marine based Connie. So I actually uh, I actually used 210 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.919 to do the uh. I volunteered in the er to 211 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.639 do the the midnight. It was a swing shift, so 212 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.200 I got to have I think it was like Sunday, 213 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.879 Mondays and tuesdays off, So I worked I think seven 214 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:00.679 at night till seven in the morning on those days. 215 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:02.200 So it was all the action. 216 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:02.679 Yeah. 217 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:06.919 Like and then Hawaii has a pretty large homeless population, 218 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:12.480 and so you get to kind of I don't want. 219 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:14.919 To put this in the it's not a negative at all. 220 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.720 You actually get to work and take care a lot 221 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.360 of homeless vets, and so I actually appreciated talking to them. 222 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:24.240 It's kind of sad, you know, you'd get these routine 223 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.440 homeless vets in and you kind of get to know 224 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:31.720 them right at one instance, it's frustrating because you're like, oh, mister, 225 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.519 such and such as here again, you know, but then 226 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.759 on the other instance, you're like, how did this guy 227 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.039 I can always remember, I mean to this day, it's 228 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.440 like amazing, I can remember this, you know almost you know, 229 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.440 twenty five years ago. But it's like, how did this 230 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.200 guy who was at four to five in the navy 231 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:56.200 is now homeless downtown like he and it? You know, 232 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.720 I always wondered that, like where in life? Where what? 233 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.399 And in their life that this is now where they're at, right, 234 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:06.240 And so you know, it's just give them haircuts, give 235 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:10.679 them bass. You know, wasn't too proud to do thatangnous 236 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:13.440 diabete giving their banana bags, right because most of them 237 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.639 were you know, they were alcoholics. So you'd kind of 238 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.639 give them a banana bag and get them rehydrated in 239 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:21.919 do the best you could with them for a couple 240 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:23.080 hours you had with them. 241 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:25.360 And and you. 242 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:28.639 Know, hindsight, they were probably doing it just to that 243 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:32.320 social dynamic. It's like it was probably good for them. 244 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:34.440 But they did that even though it was frustrating for us, 245 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.080 it was probably good for them. And it's probably good 246 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:39.240 for us that we did that for them. And we 247 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:44.960 got to see, you know that what potential life can 248 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.759 be like you know, so for sure. 249 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:51.879 So so you do your hospital time, you do a swap, 250 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.919 you go to the infantry, and what was that like 251 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:00.799 for you during a peacetime military. 252 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:03.320 So it was it was exactly that. 253 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:05.080 It was a lot. There's some things were fun, right, 254 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:10.039 like road marches and things like that, just just pre 255 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.879 I don't know if a lot of folks nowadays, you know, 256 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.639 can relate to a garrison military, you know. I just 257 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.039 you know, talking with d about that a little bit earlier, 258 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:25.519 just like a garrison military wasn't necessarily a fun thing 259 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:28.240 to experience if you were looking for excitement. I think 260 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.279 that's a little bit of where we're at a little 261 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:34.159 bit with some of our forces today. But yeah, I 262 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:38.200 was just going to the field very routine. As a medic. 263 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.600 You're in an infantry unit, you're laying out all your 264 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.840 medical chest and you're inventoring, and you're usually doing that 265 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:47.360 at the end of the day because you're sitting around 266 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.759 in the barracks people playing video games, waiting for the 267 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:53.039 platoon starting to tell you what are you going to 268 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:55.440 do today? Right right? And then they wait after the 269 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.759 first start information to come in and say we need 270 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:01.080 this done right and and I don't I don't know 271 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.159 if people still go through that today, but it was frustrating, 272 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.120 and shit, you got all these guys sitting around the 273 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:08.879 AD station like, all right, what are we gonna do? 274 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.320 Hopefully to start and tell us what we're gonna do 275 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.080 pretty soon and that's usually like it was just task right, 276 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.879 you just taking care of stuff, vehicle maintenance like motorpool Monday. Yeah, yeah, 277 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:22.559 you know all that kind of stuff. 278 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.320 And what was what was like T Triple C like 279 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:27.720 at that point in time, And what kind of training 280 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.759 were you guys getting from like your doctors at the 281 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:31.320 clinic and. 282 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:32.000 Stuff like that. 283 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.960 It was non existent, right, Yeah, so back then it 284 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:42.519 was oh man, what was the I think it was 285 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:43.360 like at. 286 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:45.480 LS ALS ATLS protocols. 287 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:50.320 So two large ivs combat life favorite thing that was 288 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.440 the combat It was like two leaders of fluids and 289 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:58.519 some pseudo fed motrin, some ace wraps, all hospital grade 290 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.759 equipment packed in a little trifold bag. And so yeah, 291 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:08.639 there wasn't you did get mentorship. Actually, the pas at 292 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.200 that time were still embedded in the AID station. It's 293 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.879 no longer like that now. The Army medical system has changed. 294 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.360 It I think this throughout the services, they've actually changed 295 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.360 that dynamic, like aid station medicine isn't a thing anymore. 296 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.039 I think they're trying to go back to it. I'm 297 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.240 a little bit dated. They may have gone back to it. 298 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:31.399 So your PA actually mentored your medics, but the practices 299 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:36.639 of what was learned from the lessons, and I think 300 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:41.639 Mogadishu and some of those times haven't they weren't doctrinihilized, 301 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.919 so those committees hadn't came together, so you were still 302 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:51.120 learning just old fluid resuscitation protocols. It was still field dressing, 303 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.759 pressure dressing, then a stick tourniquet because there was no 304 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.679 such thing as a cat tourniquet. Then it was a 305 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.000 dow rod, a gatorade bottle top and cravat was your 306 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.640 tourniquet that you made and kept in your aid bag. 307 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.079 So but there's still was mentorship. So every I think 308 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.720 it was like when the PA had to do their 309 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.759 time at the TMC, you would maybe get selected, you know, 310 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.440 like uh, I think there's around thirty to forty medics 311 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.119 that are broken down between Evacuation Treatment squad and then 312 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.519 your ALIGNE medics, and uh, the PA would pick you 313 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.319 and bring you over to the clinic and you would 314 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:31.640 do sick call the folks who were referred to the 315 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.839 tmt TMC From sick call. You'd go over there and 316 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.279 get to see patients and do vitals and do some 317 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:42.000 minor procedures to toenail's hemorrhoids. You know, ye, all of 318 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:43.559 those type of minor procedures. 319 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:46.039 So but your soap notes fre on point right. 320 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:46.640 One hundred percent. 321 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:53.559 Yes, So after after your time in the with the 322 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.359 twenty fifth, what what was next for you? 323 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:55.960 So? 324 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.079 Yes, so my tour was up, getting close to the end. 325 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.240 It's time to my re enlist. 326 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:02.480 You know. 327 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.000 I had my first three years and so went to 328 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:11.240 the retention NCO and there wasn't a lot of stuff 329 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.720 that was offered, and I wanted to try something else. 330 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:20.440 So they had different asis, additional skill identifiers medics could 331 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.880 get and so a surgical tech. So I actually liked 332 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.039 doing the minor procedure stuff. So I went and did 333 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.000 an ASI to be a surgical tech. Ahead next surgical tech. 334 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:34.319 Very unsexy job. There's only like at the time, I 335 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.440 think there was ninety of them in the whole inventory. 336 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.559 I went to school to do that went back to 337 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:45.039 Fort Sam graduated from that and then got stationed at 338 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.319 Fort Lewis and so was stationed at Fort Lewis as 339 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:54.799 a head and neck surgical tech. And that was kind 340 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:59.559 of like the beginning, I would say, of my soft exposure. 341 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.200 So I was working there at the first I was Yeah, 342 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.240 so I was actually at old Madigan, okay, if not 343 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.759 the New Madigan. And you know, the Rangers would rotate 344 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.079 through and the first some of the first group prays 345 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.680 and one sixtieth medics would rotate through, and so it 346 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.240 was like, oh, this is you know, this is pretty cool. 347 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.119 You know these guys are you know, they're doing field 348 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.359 medical stuff. And you know they would you know, talk 349 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.160 about it and talk about their job a little bit, 350 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.599 and it was you kind of just you know, rumor mill. 351 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.039 You know, Hey, there's cool guys doing cool things. 352 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:37.559 Yeah, you know. 353 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:40.720 And and so as a young I think at the time, 354 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.400 i'd maybe turned you know, I was in my early 355 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.720 really early twenties, maybe twenty one or something like that. 356 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:51.119 And so, so yeah, and the and I wasn't really 357 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:55.960 liking that job, to be quite honest, And so I 358 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.359 didn't stay at Fort Lewis very long and at the time, 359 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:04.880 my dad had gotten orders to go to Third I D. 360 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.880 And so I think I either did an extension or 361 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:15.440 a short re enlistment for that school. And so I 362 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.640 I think I either forty eighty seven or something and 363 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:20.640 got to go to Third ID or I got to 364 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.200 go to Win because I was still a surgical tech. 365 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:30.079 And that is actually let me rewind g y nine 366 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.119 to eleven happened. That's while you were at That's what happened. Okay, 367 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.920 So nine to eleven happened while I was at Madigan 368 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:41.720 and I was actually in PHDLS class. I distinctly remember it. 369 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.480 Everybody remembers at Paspitty. Yes, So I was at a 370 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:50.279 little training education facility and we're all in a room, 371 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:54.039 and that's what happened. Had some I think I had 372 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.039 a couple of rangers in the class, a couple ranger 373 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.160 medics in the class with me, and we're going through 374 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.960 our PHDLS because I think those there was like three 375 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.799 courses you had to maintain to get maintain your six 376 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:12.200 ninety one Bravo uh MS qualification. And uh so they 377 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:16.839 put on the TV like probably every unit did in 378 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.359 the army or in the service, you know, or like 379 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:20.880 everybody in the world probably you know what I mean. 380 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.000 The United States had their TV on and uh we 381 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:29.480 were watching it live and I was like, wow, I 382 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.640 remember the Rangers instantly had to go back. 383 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:34.079 They left class. 384 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:40.880 And we man, you just sparked this memory. I forgot 385 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:45.279 about it. We end up doing gate guard detail. They 386 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.039 put it, what was it, like the threat Con Delta 387 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.079 or whatever. I think all posts went to like threat 388 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.599 Con Delta. We got issued, you know, I think it 389 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.079 was like one magazine with it. May have had been 390 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:00.759 you may have got thirty rounds. 391 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:01.160 I don't know. 392 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:04.000 And everybody was on gate guard duty. We're doing gate 393 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:08.160 guard duty rotations and so yeah, so that's nine to eleven. 394 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:11.200 I want to be part of that. So and I 395 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.640 think everybody did. And so my dad had just gotten 396 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:20.559 orders to third I D. 397 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.279 Every day I was in. 398 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.440 It wasn't really a critical MOS, you know, and it 399 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.680 wasn't it's not even a deployable MS. So they've gotten 400 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.559 rid of a lot of the non deployable the a SI, 401 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.880 the a SI non deployable A Yeah. 402 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:36.279 I was wondering if that locked you in. 403 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.200 It did, and so yeah, so that's actually how I 404 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.279 went to the Special Operations medic program. 405 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.960 So so I was. 406 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:46.000 In this non deployable MOS. I'll just fast forward it 407 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:49.960 for the sake of time. I get to third I D. 408 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:54.000 My dad. I think he was the Division Targeting officer 409 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.799 third I D at the time, he was on the 410 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:02.319 initial push into Iraq, and I wanted to go. So 411 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:05.519 I went to my CSM at the hospital because they 412 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.079 were pulling people out of the hospital to fill so 413 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.319 all the you know, soldiers were on profile or something 414 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.920 and couldn't go in the line units they would won 415 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.759 for one of them, so they would take medics out 416 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.880 of the hospital fill the line, and then you know, 417 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.920 people were were going over. 418 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.279 So this is around the two thousand and three time frame. 419 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:28.160 Yeah, so this is you know, fast forward a little bit. Yeah, 420 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:32.559 so yeah, around two thousand Yeah, when yeah, whenever they pushed, 421 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:34.359 he was actually there a little bit earlier. I think 422 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.559 he was doing something in Kuwait or something, and then 423 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.480 they they maybe they knew they were already going to 424 00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:44.519 push them over. And so I went to my CSM 425 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.400 and I was like, hey, I want to deploy, and 426 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.400 he was like, no, go back to your clinic, right, 427 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.039 and so you know, I was like, well, this this sucks, 428 00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:01.920 and so I mean it was it was crazy. I 429 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.960 can I can remember like a full rotation of medics 430 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:08.240 got pulled out of the hospital had came back, and 431 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:11.759 you know they're telling their stories of war, right, this 432 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:15.079 is like this is the fret. You know. I grew 433 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:19.279 up and I joined the garrison military, or at least 434 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.559 for the most part, some folks were still doing things. 435 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.519 But for the for the large part, people weren't really 436 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:25.279 doing much. 437 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.960 So I called no what. 438 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.640 I put a one sixtieth packet in and at the time, 439 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:36.839 I was, I think a pretty good soldier. I promoted 440 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.799 really fast. I made E five in Hawaii in two years. 441 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.400 I had already went to the board and won like 442 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.839 Soldier of the Year stuff like that, into our n 443 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:53.400 CEO of the year, and so I made E six 444 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:58.039 really fast. So I got promoted really fast, and so 445 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:01.680 I put a one sixtieth packet in and I remember 446 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.079 they had a you know, they had some pretty season 447 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.519 medics because they were just getting back from the initial 448 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:15.440 stuff in Afghanistan, and they were like, you're an E six, 449 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.880 my E fours. Well, I'll never forget the phone call. 450 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.920 And because they actually gave me the courtesy of a 451 00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:22.799 phone call, and they're like, you got a great packet 452 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:25.599 and you know you high pt and all that stuff, 453 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.319 but my ri e fours will run circles around you. 454 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.359 We need people who grow up in the unit. And 455 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:39.400 so so I called branch up and I was like, hey, 456 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:43.599 I need to do whatever I need to do so 457 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:46.960 I can like deploy and be a part of this. 458 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:52.920 And they're like, well, we got this new thing. Have 459 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.799 you heard of civil Affairs? And at the time, of course, 460 00:25:55.839 --> 00:26:01.200 I'd never heard of civil affairs and so I was like, okay. 461 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:01.519 What is that? 462 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.519 And they're like, well, you'll have to go to Special 463 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.400 Operations medic course to do it. And I was like, okay, 464 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:07.400 that that sounds awesome. 465 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:07.640 Yeah. 466 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:09.839 I was kind of wanting to do that anyways, and 467 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.519 so so they're like, okay, well we'll put you on 468 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:17.240 orders and and send you to SOCCAM and I was like, 469 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.720 I was like perfect. And so because I had won 470 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.400 like n CEO of the Year, I got I like 471 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.480 what I asked to go to Airborne School because they 472 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:28.640 were like, you know, you're kind of representing the command 473 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.960 and they give you like, hey, what what can what 474 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:31.440 do you want to do? 475 00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:33.640 Some fun this little tree. Yeah. 476 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.319 So that so I, you know, got to go to 477 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.680 I had been to airborne school and like the basic 478 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.319 like cool guy badge stuff for like the conventional military, 479 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.160 and so so I went to soccerm So I went 480 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.680 to soccam as an E six and then you know, 481 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:52.400 I did a full you know, the full back then 482 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.519 it was still a six month course. Right now I 483 00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:58.400 believe it's nine unless it's changed. And then additionally, if 484 00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:01.200 you went through the Civil Airs program, was another three 485 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:05.680 months of like their qualification course. And so made that 486 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:10.079 through no issues, you know, because like like you said, 487 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.759 you know, my time as an E R medic, I 488 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.680 was a I felt it was a pretty good medic 489 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:16.880 and I didn't really you know, didn't have a lot 490 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:21.480 of like issues, and and made it, made it through 491 00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:22.079 the program. 492 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.559 And then I got to the unit at Bragg. 493 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:29.880 So at the time it was only one battalion. It 494 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:31.960 was the ninety sixth Civil Fairs Battalion. 495 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.759 It had all been guard up unto that point, right, no. 496 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.960 So, yes and no, so ninety five percent of the 497 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.000 force was was I believe reserve. 498 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:42.519 Okay, I believe reserve. 499 00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:47.960 There was one active battalion there were ninety six. It 500 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.160 was on brag It was right by the GB clubs, 501 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:54.079 right in the right behind there there's one building and 502 00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:00.279 there was what was there Alpha through Foxtrot Company, and 503 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:05.920 every company had an uh a geographic area of responsibility. 504 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.759 So when I got there, I got Echo Company. So 505 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:15.480 Echo Company was kind of unique. Echo Company was the 506 00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.279 SMU support company, so they were the ones who supported 507 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:27.880 Jasock taskings and the rangers. And so when I in process, 508 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.000 you know, everybody meets the CSM at the time, and 509 00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:34.039 so I went up and uh we you know, we 510 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:37.200 like everybody. And so that was two thousand and four. 511 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.359 We thought we were going to miss the war, right, 512 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.480 everybody thought they were going to miss the war. And 513 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:47.599 so the CSM was like, hey, I have a spot, 514 00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:52.000 I need a medic and Echo Company and so me 515 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.319 and my good good friend of mine, but you guys 516 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.400 got a deploy like in four days, can you be ready? 517 00:28:58.839 --> 00:28:59.400 And we're like. 518 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:05.960 Absolutely we men, you get my affairs in order and done. Yeah. 519 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.640 So so yeah, so that was that was that was 520 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:16.119 pretty interesting. So so that now I've told you my backround, right, so. 521 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.279 So real good because you go through the SOCCAM and 522 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:21.480 for people who might not know that's the trauma portion. 523 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:25.920 For special operations, I think even SF, that's their trauma portion. 524 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:29.160 They go off and do the rest of their veterinarian 525 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:31.200 and hospital and stuff like that. 526 00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.519 But for civil affairs, you guys have a mission. 527 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.039 It's very similar I think to the SF right so 528 00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.480 to the SF mission because you guys do need to 529 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.240 know how to test water and and do things more, 530 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:50.759 you know, outside of trauma. So was there additional medical 531 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:53.960 training for you guys for like that portion of it 532 00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:57.920 being like a medical support on top of the trauma stuff. 533 00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:03.160 Yes, so what Yeah, so I would say that we complement, right, 534 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.720 So we are you know, kind of like this a 535 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:09.200 support element that brings a capability to uh to A 536 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:15.839 to an ODA. And so the training we go back 537 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:18.480 through their dental block. Okay, So we went through their 538 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.720 dental block, their veterinary block, and then we had our 539 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.039 own that was our own blocks that were field sand heavy. 540 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:31.160 So it's all about you had to go through food inspection. 541 00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:34.160 You go learn how to like kill an animal and 542 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.000 prep it and then inspect food and then a lot 543 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.079 of field sand and then water purification. 544 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:43.799 So it's yeah, it's taught at the time. 545 00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:46.720 It was actually taught by a Sierra sixty eighth Sierra, 546 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.519 which is a prevented med specialist, and so it was 547 00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:54.279 it was all once you did those blocks, we're learning 548 00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:56.559 how to work with animals and basically pulling people's teeth 549 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.440 and things like that. The dental blocks, then you got 550 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.440 the field sand blocks and so yeah, so those are 551 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:04.240 some of the things that you can kind of complement 552 00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.119 and help a team out with, right, A lot of 553 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.119 the rapport building. 554 00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:11.720 Right, So for people who might not be aware of it, 555 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.480 can you tell us what civil affairs is, why, why 556 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:20.079 it's under so calm or you know, what's their mission? 557 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:24.640 Oh boy, so caveat. 558 00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:29.759 If I'm doing a disservice, just know it's my recollection 559 00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.720 of it. So what we did is, I would say 560 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.440 what we best did because my first mission was actually 561 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.160 a regional mission with an ODA, so I was attached 562 00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:42.279 to a seventh Group, I believe with seventh groups first 563 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:46.920 rotation into Afghanistan, I believe, And so what we do 564 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:52.640 is kind of maintain freedom of maneuver and expand the 565 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.920 maneuver area through At that point, it was I think 566 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.119 a lot of like counterinsurgency stuff, right, it's like the 567 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:05.319 civil affairs folks work with like, so let's just like 568 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.039 counterin certaincy, right, you got your your your pro people 569 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:13.440 ten percent, your hardliners other ten percent, and then I guess, 570 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.519 to make this simple eighty percent in the middle, right, 571 00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:19.759 So what our job was to kind of work with 572 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.680 the ODA to kind of gain rapport with that eighty 573 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:26.519 percent in the middle and push those towards the pro side. 574 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:29.160 And so really that's what you do. And there's a 575 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:38.519 lot of so things you bring to the table, humanitarian assistants, medcaps, vets, caps, 576 00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:42.319 just partner you know, it's like nation building stuff, kind 577 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.359 of the other regional aspect of it. 578 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:51.680 But really you're just they're small teams. People may not 579 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.680 know that. So they're a cat a team. 580 00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:56.880 Is what I was on is a for man team 581 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.599 that used to have It's not like this anymore. That's 582 00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.599 it's a important is distinction. I guess my generation of 583 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.960 being on a civil affairs team. So you had a medic, 584 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.119 an engineer, a weapons guy who was eleven bravo, and 585 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:13.839 then you had an officer and so time my tenure 586 00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:17.759 there is when basically SF needed all the SF guys 587 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.960 back because that battalion was all SF guys and they 588 00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:24.240 were pushing them back out to the team. So they 589 00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:26.599 were usually your older kind of long in the two guys, 590 00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:31.279 very experienced guys, or just maybe they were hurt or something, 591 00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.039 so they would they would end up in the Civil 592 00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:36.720 Affairs battalion, so they need to go back. So they 593 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:40.039 basically took a bunch of rangers from Ranger Battalion. So 594 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:43.319 Echo Company had a lot of rangers from Ranger Battalion 595 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.799 where they were typically your team startant and then you 596 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:50.880 had a lot of eighty second engineers and then medics 597 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:56.119 that they were generating medics through the course because I 598 00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:57.960 think we were, like I think I was in the 599 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:01.599 second class or third class of medics that are being 600 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.640 recruited to basically push the deltas back out to the teams. 601 00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.160 There's very few Deltas left in the. 602 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:12.599 Battalion, and then we were backfilling them. So I don't 603 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:14.960 know if I got to the answer your question. It's 604 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:16.079 a roundabout way they're. 605 00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:19.440 So what I'm taking away from it is that Civil 606 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.719 affairs is, you know, we talk about special forces being 607 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.559 hearts in mind, civil affairs is really kind of the 608 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:26.320 backbone of that. 609 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:26.880 Hearts and mind. 610 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.039 So it's a lot of the civilian engagement and in 611 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:34.159 the counterinsurgency strategy, it's the idea to win over the 612 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.679 population and help create that sort of area denial, not 613 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.679 necessarily through force, but through through goodwill building exactly. 614 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:44.440 And so I think where we come in. 615 00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:46.239 And I can remember at the time they were talking 616 00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:49.480 about the phases of opera military operations, so going from 617 00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.320 phase three combat operations to phase four, which is I 618 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.679 think support and stability. So that's kind of that transition 619 00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:58.599 from combat operations to support and stability. It's kind of 620 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:03.239 the nation rebuilding, establishing government, governments and things like that. 621 00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:08.679 So you're exactly right. So that's kind of honestly, we 622 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:12.119 thought that's what we were phasing. We were going into 623 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.159 phase I can remember that as people because I don't 624 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:18.360 think you get a combat patch, you know, you know, 625 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:23.000 a shoulder sleeve insignia if you're in phase four of operations. 626 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.280 I think you have to be in phase three. Interesting, 627 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.280 and I can remember because I get worried about that. 628 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.320 That was like, that was a thing. I believe, I understand, 629 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:33.480 I understand why. 630 00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:35.960 And it's it's it's it's funny because I can remember 631 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.159 the seventh I can remember, so we were attached to UH. 632 00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.920 I think it was seven two three. I could be wrong, 633 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.679 but a lot of those guys so they were getting there. 634 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:49.599 You know, those guys were their army guys. There were 635 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:51.480 all boy scouts at the end the day, right, collecting 636 00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:55.119 like badges and and flair, and they were worried about it. 637 00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:57.400 And like I can remember, like the guys who didn't 638 00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:01.000 get a CIB yet, they were like, like, we need 639 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:02.840 to like get into something. 640 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.079 Right, we right, get somebody shoot at us? Yeah, yeah, 641 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:07.920 let's just drive down this road and see what happens. 642 00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:11.360 It's like moving the contest. Yeah, let's let's recombin. 643 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:16.239 High so so yeah, And if you remember Afghanistan at 644 00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:21.960 that time, you know, like you know, I did a 645 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.039 lot of time. Well I guess a lot of time 646 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:28.280 is relative, but I did I think five tours four 647 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.800 or five tours there at that time in two thousand 648 00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:36.440 and four. It's a highlux pickup truck, two dudes and 649 00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:40.559 four Afghans and you're driving for three hours. You know, 650 00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:42.960 that's unheard of, I think later on, but it was 651 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.360 relatively a I would call it permissive to semi permissive environment, 652 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.880 and so a lot of people they've never seen you before, 653 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.079 and you know you're there. So as a civil affairs guys, 654 00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:01.519 you've got goodies to hang out. Coats, backpacks, engineer kids, 655 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:03.400 school supplies, soccer. 656 00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:05.159 Balls, yeah, you know, all that kind of stuff. 657 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.920 You know it is. And you're going out with the 658 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.360 ODA too because they're you know, they're trying to maintain 659 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:15.840 their maneuver. Well, yeah, yeah, there's a. 660 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.480 There's a no I get it though, but yea, yeah exactly. 661 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:20.679 I mean it's one of those things where if you 662 00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:22.320 don't use it, you lose it, right, If you're not 663 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:27.440 getting out there and actually controlling and showing presence, then encroachment, 664 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:29.679 encroachment happens, and and things. 665 00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:33.719 Like that and if and like again, like back in 666 00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.000 that we were still handing out the green matches with 667 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.800 the picture of Osama bin Laden on it, like asking 668 00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:41.000 everybody if they knew hre Islama had been Laden was 669 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.920 like probably everybody else, right, right, And so it's you know, 670 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.800 it's that period of time where they're like, no, we 671 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:49.920 don't know who that dude is, but can we have 672 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:51.079 some jackets? 673 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.440 So I have to ask you this because it's kind 674 00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:54.000 of funny to me. 675 00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:57.000 And you know, like you say, a lot of civil 676 00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.239 fairs used to be made up of long in the tooth, 677 00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:02.679 you know, SF guys who had a lot of experience, 678 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:06.239 you know, working with indigenous cultures, doing foreign internal defense, 679 00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:11.719 things like that, and then they need those guys back, understandable, 680 00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.320 and so they backfilled them with rangers in eighty second 681 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:22.039 who probably aren't known for their civilian engagement, you know, strategies. 682 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:29.559 How did that all work out? So I think it. 683 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.480 I think because we didn't have a lot of seasoned fighters, 684 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.159 like to our people were seasoned combat veterans. Maybe that's 685 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.559 a better way to say it's seasoned veterans. It was 686 00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:43.239 all new to all of us. And I actually didn't 687 00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:46.559 go to the qualification course till between my first and 688 00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:50.320 second deployment, so I didn't get school trained. I'd been 689 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:52.440 through the mos portion of it, but then you had 690 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:56.079 to go through like the Swich portion of it, the 691 00:38:56.119 --> 00:39:01.679 schoolhouse portion, And so I think you understood that you 692 00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.599 were trying to like make these people your friend at 693 00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:09.880 the end of the day, and so some of it comes, 694 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:15.679 I would say, a bit naturally, you know, and at 695 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.360 that time period, they weren't really aggressive towards us. 696 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.360 So you can still get on the Chicken Street or 697 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:24.639 whatever and buy buy rugs or buy. 698 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:25.800 Yeah, exactly. 699 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:29.559 So it was just I think, a different time, and 700 00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.719 so I think that at least I didn't. 701 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:36.760 I didn't. I didn't. 702 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.599 It didn't seem to be an issue. It didn't seem 703 00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:42.960 it didn't seem to be an issue. And I never 704 00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.800 I didn't think, you know, SATs, because we had like 705 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.119 my team sergeant was a I think he was a 706 00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:54.159 first battalion ranger and he had already deployed with the 707 00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:00.320 with the battalions to Afghanistan, and I didn't expe aperience 708 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:03.679 guys who were just overly aggressive wanting to like not 709 00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:06.800 do their task right and try to like get it on. Yeah, 710 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.800 And so you know, it just seemed to I guess, 711 00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:15.039 you know, we're discovery learning. It's like learning a new job. 712 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:17.880 It's kind of fun when you're doing that though, because 713 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:22.039 you also like there's not an overbearance of leadership at 714 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:22.760 that point in time. 715 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:25.920 You're kind of creating your own missions. You know that 716 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:28.360 nobody is sitting there with their thumb on you. So really, 717 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:33.079 whatever you guys come up with, like that's your Yeah 718 00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:33.320 it is. 719 00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:37.239 And and you know, like I've had con op parties 720 00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.960 and I remember the pain of conops and getting improved. 721 00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.559 But you're exactly right. Then it was just like, hey, 722 00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:44.599 where are we going to go tomorrow? 723 00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:44.960 Yeah? 724 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:48.639 Okay, And we would go somewhere almost every day. Yeah, 725 00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:52.440 and just drive, you know, go to the next place, 726 00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:54.199 go to the next place. So yeah, it was really 727 00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:59.599 just like where what we seen of value being nested 728 00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:03.159 with their plans and their objectives, the oda's plans, and 729 00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:05.840 just trying to support them the best we could. 730 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.840 And to to to kind of just really develop the area, 731 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:12.480 because I think that's the other component. 732 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:14.960 So at this point in time, since this is all 733 00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:18.840 fairly new, uh and not just you know, like the 734 00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.639 civil affairs. Civil affairs had been there, but did the 735 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.960 did the ODA know how to best implement you guys 736 00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:28.119 or were you both learning together? 737 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.519 I think we were learning together to be to be 738 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.320 quite honest, I think that we was a little bit 739 00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:39.400 more natural from us than the SYOP guys. So they 740 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:42.639 had a SIOP team attached as well, so they kind 741 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:46.000 of had the full package. So you had I think 742 00:41:46.039 --> 00:41:50.159 they had their an intel team attached to them. They 743 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.559 had a syop team and they had a civil affairs team, 744 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:56.159 and we were all at Camp tice So and De 745 00:41:56.360 --> 00:42:02.360 ra Wu you know, down by Kandaheart and so I 746 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:05.519 think with them they didn't really know how to implement them. 747 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:07.840 You know, they were handing out their flyers and things 748 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.840 like that at the time leaflet drops, right, yea. But 749 00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:14.440 for us it was a little bit more natural. I 750 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.599 was a medic. There was only one medic they had 751 00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:19.239 split up. I think half of that oda went up 752 00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:24.280 to Cobra, and so I instantly gravitated. So I was 753 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:28.360 a fairly senior and both great and experience as a 754 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.559 medic at least, you know, because again the e R 755 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.559 time helped me so instantly had a great senior eighteen 756 00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:36.719 delta who took me under his wing. And we did 757 00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:40.840 we just did a lot of you know, a lot 758 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:45.039 of tailgate medicine, right, and then we ran campsit call 759 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:47.320 right where folks can bring people in from all over 760 00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:49.519 and you get to see I mean, you get to 761 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:56.480 see everything. So that trip I probably next to Iraq 762 00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.840 and next to the Surge. I practiced the most medicine. 763 00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:03.679 I'm I mean, we you know, we did a whole 764 00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:06.559 blood front transfusion. You know, one of the cooks from 765 00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.559 the cook we you know, Eldon carted him and we 766 00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:13.920 had an Afghan come in with from a a garden 767 00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:16.239 tool fight. So he had took a pick axe to 768 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:21.639 the chest and so he needed he needed blood. We there, 769 00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:24.960 we weren't getting flights for him. That was the things 770 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.280 they didn't end at that period of time. They didn't 771 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:31.719 eve act these guys. You had to set so gunshots 772 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:35.719 I got to do, you know, full repairs and put 773 00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:38.719 in drains, just things that are unheard of. I mean 774 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:42.880 you're talking like surgeon physician level stuff. So you know, 775 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:47.840 just a lot of mentorship. Burns, right, you remember all 776 00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.000 the burn the burn kids. We ran a burn clinic, 777 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:52.400 so we got to learn about. 778 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:54.400 You know, uh, ketamine use. 779 00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:56.679 That was the big thing. That's one of the biggest things. 780 00:43:56.679 --> 00:44:01.960 He had wrote some papers. Just a phenomenal eighteen delta 781 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:07.440 who just really made the best of the time and 782 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:11.039 experience and honing his skills and then taking me under 783 00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:15.000 my wing and or under his wing, and just we 784 00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:20.639 ran a great clinic there and uh just really we 785 00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:22.320 got to see a lot of things and experience a 786 00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.199 lot of things. I did my first field amputation. 787 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:29.760 Wow, it's amazing. Yeah, I wanted to do another one. 788 00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.400 I probably it's probably good thing I didn't because the 789 00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:35.039 I remember the ODA commander. So this guy came in. 790 00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:37.519 I don't know, I think he got bit by a 791 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:39.679 dog or something, but you could tell his leg was 792 00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.960 septic and I needed to go and I wanted to 793 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.199 take his leg off, and the Odia Carener was like 794 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.679 here right, I know, he's like if he dies here, 795 00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.119 that's a problem for me. So no, so we ended 796 00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:55.239 up didn't do that. But I another time a kid 797 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:57.800 got his hand cut and a cotton a fan belt 798 00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:01.559 working on engine. It like so it's like a partial 799 00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:07.840 so I can no it had taken. It had taken 800 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.360 like it was just a mess. It was a mangled mess. 801 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.159 It kind of ripped everything away, So there's nothing you 802 00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.679 could do but basically complete it and just work through 803 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:18.440 the joint space and then just kind of undermine the 804 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.320 tissue and pull it, wrap it around and then kind 805 00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.000 of close it. And then I called up the the 806 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:28.199 B team, you know where the the PA and doc were, 807 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:30.679 and basically put him, you know, told him, taught him 808 00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:34.119 how to do wet to drys and put him uh broadbrand. 809 00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:37.920 You know, I think I forget what we gave him, 810 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.800 like shots of rosephn or something, and and so just 811 00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.400 really got to do some some really some really great things, 812 00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:47.599 and then I. 813 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:52.000 Got to learn some lessons. 814 00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:55.639 I remember this one time, this old lady came in 815 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.800 with her ear in her hand and a dog had 816 00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:03.599 bitten her ear off, and so me, the great like 817 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.360 suture person, I thought I could sew that back on, 818 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.800 and so I get like it was beautiful too, like 819 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:15.079 I had approximated all the edges perfectly and lined everything 820 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:19.519 up like so did. And then the you know, the 821 00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:22.039 Jeremy came in and he's like, hey, man. 822 00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:23.960 What are you doing. I'm like, I'm sewing these ladies 823 00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:24.559 ear on it. 824 00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:28.440 He's like what And I had like the ear canal 825 00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:31.199 like I had, like, you know, both exteriorly and interior. 826 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:33.360 He's like, dude, there's no blood supply to that. 827 00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:34.320 What are you doing? 828 00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:36.760 And so I was like, oh. 829 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.480 Okay. He's like, okay, do this. 830 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:45.000 He's like take that back off and just take what 831 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.519 left the skin and just close it up the best 832 00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:50.000 you can and then let me take a look at 833 00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.199 it when you're done. So I did that. But you know, 834 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:55.320 so I got to like make some mistakes, I guess 835 00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:55.920 you could say so. 836 00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:57.960 Because of like the cartilage and what not, like there's 837 00:46:58.079 --> 00:46:58.840 no way to hear. 838 00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:02.400 Yeah, not at my skill right, and then not the 839 00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:03.639 post care right. 840 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:05.679 So that's the other thing that's like a clastic surgeon 841 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:06.440 level type of thing. 842 00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:09.159 Yeah, I think it's it's way beyond something I should do. 843 00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:13.000 But you know, that's all, that's all they had. And 844 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:16.800 and even the guy whose hand he didn't he did. Man, 845 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:20.559 he came back like he was supposed to come in 846 00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:22.920 daily for dressing changes is what we told him. We 847 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.159 taught him how to do it like if he needed to, 848 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:27.039 and he was supposed to come back and he did, 849 00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:29.320 and he came back infected and I think we had 850 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:31.320 to put him on some more antibiotics too. 851 00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:36.519 But yeah, it was just a great That trip. 852 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:41.119 Was just a great, a great rate, a great trip 853 00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.960 that I honed my skills as being a field like 854 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:46.119 a forward medic and getting to like do some extra stuff. 855 00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:48.760 Do you have any any funny stories from like the 856 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:53.840 Tailgate Medicine, because I feel like when you would the 857 00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.400 like the village, like I don't know the right terminology. 858 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:03.920 I don't remember anymore, but basically they had sort of 859 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:06.719 witch doctors in a way, but it wasn't witch doctor, 860 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:11.239 but but like some of their home remedies were were 861 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:12.079 pretty bizarre. 862 00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:17.719 Yeah, I mean kind of the a lot of STDs 863 00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:24.719 treating oddly enough. Yeah, you know, you'd eventually tease it out. 864 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:28.920 It's like it's burning when ipe, and so you know, 865 00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.960 then it's like you already had the pill packs like 866 00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:34.360 made up for him. Okay, here, here's your pill pack. 867 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:40.519 And then I remember my team leader he was like 868 00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:43.960 taking a liking to it, and like we were running 869 00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:45.880 out of vitamins, so everybody wanted I think it was 870 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:48.280 like vita Mina's I think that. I don't know if 871 00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.280 that translates to what it was, but they would ask 872 00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:53.679 for vita, they wanted vitamins, and so we would run 873 00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:57.000 out of vitamins because like we would just give them out. 874 00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.400 There's I mean, these were hundreds of people come in. 875 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:03.880 They would be a line, like in the morning, there 876 00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:06.719 was a line ready to see us. And some of 877 00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:11.960 it was people just want something and understandably, and so 878 00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:14.719 my team leader wanted to get involved. So we like 879 00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:19.239 would make skittle bags for the people who wanted vitamins 880 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:22.360 because we didn't have any, and we wanted to give 881 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.119 them something. You know, you didn't want to just turn 882 00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:26.360 themway and to get away, you know, don't you don't 883 00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.280 have any nothing for you. So but yeah, I tell 884 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:33.519 you one of the the funniest story that I have 885 00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:36.360 that's kind of connected to tailgate medicine. It's like you're 886 00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:40.400 going out to these villages and so I always kept 887 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:43.719 a cargo pocket full of candy to give to the kids. 888 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.280 And we were getting ready. 889 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:51.280 To load up, and so I had reached in my 890 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.880 cargo pocket and there's all these kids, like they're just 891 00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:56.519 all doing them. 892 00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:57.400 You do things with them. 893 00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:59.480 You'd be like, listen to the port you did, you know, 894 00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.480 put your hand, hands up, put your hands down, like 895 00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:05.920 practicing the language and stuff. And so I got I 896 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.599 reached in the pocket. They've seen what was in my hand. 897 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.599 So there's all these kids there, and some of these 898 00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:15.079 kids are holding kids babies. 899 00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:15.960 Right, because that was the other weird thing. 900 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:19.280 You see like five year olds carrying a baby like 901 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:23.880 that's not normal. So I throw the candy up in 902 00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:29.320 the air, right, So what happens They d they start 903 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:30.320 dropping babies. 904 00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:33.000 There's all these babies falling in the rocks. 905 00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.039 And I'm like, oh man, what did I just do. 906 00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:40.079 You're a horrible human being. 907 00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:40.800 I'm just kidding. 908 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.960 No. Yeah, so oh man, So that yeah, that was 909 00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:49.840 that was Yeah, that was pretty funny. Well it was. 910 00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:53.360 It was not funny, but it was like it was like, yeah, 911 00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:54.920 people were laughing, Yeah, what are you doing? 912 00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:55.360 It's funny. 913 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.559 It was on the babies like yeah they were yeah 914 00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.239 yeah yeah. 915 00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:02.480 So how long was that first deployment for you? 916 00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:08.079 So the first trip, I want to say it was 917 00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:11.920 an eighth I think it was an eight or nine 918 00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:17.519 month trip where the regional rotations. But I came in 919 00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:21.360 I think a month late. They needed to fill out 920 00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:23.480 the rest of the teams and we had graduated. That's 921 00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:26.559 why they needed medics in that company because they were 922 00:51:26.599 --> 00:51:30.599 already on over there. And so I think the first 923 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.679 one was I think I ended up doing six or 924 00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:34.280 seven months. 925 00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:38.039 Okay, and so you come back and then you go 926 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:42.239 through the Civil Affairs qualification course or the yeah. 927 00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:44.119 So then I yeah, so it came back, went to 928 00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:47.679 the qualification course and I think I went through seer. 929 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.719 I think my team startant was like hey you need 930 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:52.360 to go through SYR. So I went through c r C. 931 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:56.519 And what was what was the civil affairs portion of 932 00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.400 that LIE because you'd already been through the medical portion, 933 00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:01.599 So what was this like Hearts and Minds Peace. 934 00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:06.679 It was a lot of for the I forget what 935 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:09.119 they're called. It's a different mission set. So it's like 936 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.920 it's more of the stuff. It's more of like the 937 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.840 higher level where you're so like an embassy team. Okay, 938 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.320 so later I did some an embassy team trip. So 939 00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:20.559 it's much more working with government governance and things like that, 940 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:23.880 learning what a what a Bravo team does? You know 941 00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.760 what a cat be does and things like that or man, 942 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.199 I forgot, I forget what the name of the teams 943 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:34.800 are called. But essentially it's working directly with the embassy 944 00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:39.960 and learning how to engage with a functioning infrastructure. So 945 00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:42.880 if they have governance involved, here's how you integrate, here's 946 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:47.840 the capability you provide. And so it was it was 947 00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:53.400 much more at the street i'd say sateg operational level, 948 00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:54.760 not really at the tactical level. 949 00:52:56.679 --> 00:52:56.920 Yeah. 950 00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:02.360 Interesting, So you know if that ever changed it all 951 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:05.360 where they made it that where they created more of 952 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:08.360 a tactical or at least added. 953 00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:11.559 Like the tactical curriculum to that. I don't know, but 954 00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:13.440 that's kind of it would be. 955 00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:17.360 I don't know where it's at today, to be quite honest. 956 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:21.360 So it became it's a MOS. So that's we'll get 957 00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.679 to that portal story. But basically I had to leave 958 00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:27.760 civil affairs because they were becoming their owen own MOS, 959 00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:31.920 and you had a choice convert to a civil affairs 960 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:33.920 MOS or leave that organization. 961 00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:36.159 And so would that would that have been like an 962 00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:38.039 eighteen delta in a way that it would have been 963 00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:42.920 a civil affairs MOS with like a medical. 964 00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.039 So yeah, they you're exactly right. 965 00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:49.440 So essentially, just like it's an ASI, so it's a 966 00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:51.559 it's a thirty I believe it was a thirty eight. 967 00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:53.679 Bravo Civil Affairs sergeant. 968 00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:56.079 I think they were called and then you got I 969 00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:59.000 think I was a whiskey too, So we're whiskey ones 970 00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:02.480 or we were which is a sock them a special 971 00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:08.880 Operations combat medic and then the active component because they 972 00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:12.079 created other battalions, they were growing it because of the 973 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.559 need of in Iraq and Afghanistan, they created their own 974 00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:21.000 MOS and then they I think the only thing specialized 975 00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.440 on the team. So that was the difference, is they 976 00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:27.400 still needed a medic, and the medic became a whiskey 977 00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:30.599 two and got to go to SOCCAM, and then the 978 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:34.239 other ones were kind of generalists. And so I think 979 00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:36.559 that's what was the worry though. It's like, Okay, you 980 00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:38.760 had these guys who had hard skills, right, you had 981 00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:43.400 these combat engineers or Levin Bravos who you know, Victor 982 00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:50.159 identifiers and things like that. But now you got a 983 00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:54.280 mechanic or a whatever s one. You know, you have 984 00:54:54.840 --> 00:55:00.360 a human resources person going through this program. I have 985 00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:05.960 to believe they would for just the sake of being 986 00:55:06.039 --> 00:55:08.400 competent in an asset, they would have had to have 987 00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.760 figured out some program to get them tactical training. 988 00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:15.000 Yeah. 989 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:18.960 I do, there's but there's obviously, you know, there's no. 990 00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:21.320 There's there's. 991 00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:25.239 I don't know how they could replace the most institutional 992 00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:28.679 knowledge and the operational experience of eleven Bravo right right, 993 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:32.480 You know, when you have an E seven with fifteen 994 00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:36.280 years as a guy and ranger of battalion, or even 995 00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:39.880 the eighty second for that matter, there's just basic principles 996 00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:42.800 of security that they know and when you're talking about 997 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:46.280 small unit tactics, right, And I think that's where it 998 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:48.960 got a little bit dangerous, and so they had to 999 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:53.559 they've had to have have mitigated that liability. 1000 00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:54.039 Yeah. 1001 00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:57.320 No, it makes sense too, because you know, even though 1002 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:01.519 civil affairs isn't like a DA four, if you're out 1003 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:04.599 in the back country somewhere doing something in a semi 1004 00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:08.400 permissive environment, at any point in time, that format element 1005 00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:11.480 for a personal element may you know, may need to 1006 00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:13.679 react to contact you know, or may need to and 1007 00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:16.440 be good at it, good enough to you know, to 1008 00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:19.000 at least if even with they're if they're with an 1009 00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:21.760 a team, to not so slow the team down or 1010 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:23.320 you know, take care of their own. 1011 00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:24.679 Yeah. 1012 00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:29.480 And I think again, like so I transitioned before that started. 1013 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:35.280 But I think that probably you know, you asked me 1014 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:39.320 earlier about did they know how to utilize you. I 1015 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:43.519 think it was maybe easier for them because there's some 1016 00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:47.840 credibility that comes with the background of Okay, I have 1017 00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:53.000 the average time and service of you know, ten say 1018 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:56.280 eight to ten years or twelve years of being you 1019 00:56:56.320 --> 00:57:01.159 know in battalion, right, being at least a SOCCAM program 1020 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:05.920 or at least a eighty second engineer, right, so they 1021 00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:09.840 have their those skills, some hard skills if you will, 1022 00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:13.320 right into like okay, now, well what did you do 1023 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:15.440 for that when you just graduated the course? Right? 1024 00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:16.159 Right? 1025 00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:19.760 So I think it may have been easier than for 1026 00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:23.119 us to kind of to integrate with them. 1027 00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:24.079 It makes sense. 1028 00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:26.039 I mean, if you have a guy show up and 1029 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.920 he's wearing the Civil Affairs or you know, the you 1030 00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:32.760 know so compacts or whatever, but he's got a scroll 1031 00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:36.320 as a combat passion, it's like, okay, like or even 1032 00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:37.840 with the eighty second, you know, if he's got a 1033 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:42.880 you know, a combat action badge with an eighty second, like, 1034 00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:44.840 you look at them a little bit differently than just 1035 00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:47.800 somebody who may have only come up through that to 1036 00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:48.639 that pipeline. 1037 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:53.199 It and it's again not to take anything away from 1038 00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:56.119 it with the and I'm sure there's you know, they've 1039 00:57:56.239 --> 00:57:59.599 worked through that. I would have to believe that they 1040 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.800 would have to figure that out to mitigate the experience 1041 00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:07.159 they lost from taking people because you got again and initially, 1042 00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:09.920 like you said, started with people long in the tooth. Yeah, 1043 00:58:10.119 --> 00:58:13.000 eighteen series guys and some of those guys like that 1044 00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:15.559 were on our teams. You know, they I mean some 1045 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:19.039 of these guys they were I know, they were well 1046 00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:22.440 over twenty years. They had twenty years of service as 1047 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:28.800 a eighteen whatever Charlie or whatever. And so now I 1048 00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:33.599 got a ten year in service whatever. The engineer MOS 1049 00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:37.000 used to be twelve Bravo or whatever VO. So okay, 1050 00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:40.320 but the guy knows engineering, he knows demo and SIS stuff. Okay. 1051 00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:44.000 Now I have someone who's went through used to be 1052 00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:47.840 a whatever, right and went through a five week or whatever. 1053 00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:50.079 The MOS. I don't know, maybe it's maybe it's a year, 1054 00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:53.000 whatever it is. So I think that. 1055 00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:56.639 It may have degraded. 1056 00:58:56.679 --> 00:59:00.639 But it was the requirement you have to row, right, 1057 00:59:00.679 --> 00:59:05.239 the army had to grow to be able to meet 1058 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:10.760 the demands and the requirements of two theaters of operations 1059 00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:16.800 and the support requirements, because like we thought we were 1060 00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:19.840 transitioning out of those places when you think in two 1061 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:24.599 thousand and eight, nine, ten, I mean they were they 1062 00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:27.079 were talking about pulling out of those places in those 1063 00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:31.239 that those time frames, and so you know, there was 1064 00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:33.679 a lot of you know, in the surge, right, the 1065 00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:36.320 surge happened in Iraq, and so it really kind of 1066 00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:41.719 bloomed up the requirement. But but yeah, so I'm sure 1067 00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:42.519 they figured that out. 1068 00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.840 So so you do your first trip, you go and 1069 00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:50.639 you do the civil Fiars training and now another trip 1070 00:59:50.679 --> 00:59:51.400 to Afghanistan. 1071 00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:55.880 Yep, so I did so. Yeah, so I did the 1072 00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:59.079 first trip on a regional. Then that was my second trip. 1073 00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:02.840 I was attacked. I think it was two seven five 1074 01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:08.840 initially and then three seven five, and so we were 1075 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:13.599 they used to be directly attached to the ranger regimen, 1076 01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.280 but then it kind of they peeled them away, like 1077 01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:18.280 the early days of the were some of the first 1078 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:21.199 teams that were in they were I think directly attached. 1079 01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:27.960 We were still attached, but now it was more you know, 1080 01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.280 it's take on versus I forget like it. 1081 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:32.239 So, were there two separate chains of command then if 1082 01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:33.920 you guys weren't directly attached. 1083 01:00:35.639 --> 01:00:37.840 No, So that's the weird thing about seeing being a 1084 01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:40.800 civil affairs guys and kind of the identity of you. Right, 1085 01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:45.039 they're like you live always being attached to somebody else, right, 1086 01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:49.880 So you're not with your company, especially on those on 1087 01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:54.199 the tactical teams that were doing the the SMU support. 1088 01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:58.599 Your your your four man team is directly attaching to 1089 01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:02.920 whatever the rangers to see or whatever wherever Jaysock wants 1090 01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:08.079 to put you. And so you are no, you're, you're. 1091 01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:11.119 They have a tactical control of you. So you know 1092 01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:14.599 the difference between take on and opcon. They can move 1093 01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:16.400 you and do whatever they want to you, they just 1094 01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:18.199 can't assign you somewhere else. 1095 01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:22.360 I see, I see. So so how was that then? 1096 01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:28.039 Had the Rangers already been working with civil fairs? Did 1097 01:01:28.039 --> 01:01:30.519 they did they know how to best utilize you guys? 1098 01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:31.400 Yeah? 1099 01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:36.360 They yeah, And I'll describe what that was like. So 1100 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.519 working with them, you're pretty much or I'll say my experience, 1101 01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:46.320 My experience was not a lot of stuff on target. 1102 01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:48.440 You did every all of the cleanup. 1103 01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:49.280 You're. 1104 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:51.880 My job was to go in and make things right. 1105 01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:56.159 So that was it's actually pretty It was actually pretty 1106 01:01:56.199 --> 01:01:59.320 dangerous at times, to be quite honest, because they had 1107 01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:04.679 just hit a compound whatever, how many other people died, 1108 01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:08.599 tore everything up, broke and everything. So my job was 1109 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:13.239 to go in with two other guys, you know, maybe 1110 01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:20.159 maybe another humbye, so two trucks that we knew that 1111 01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:24.960 was a good target, and then try to make it right. 1112 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:28.239 And you basically had a backpack pull of money out 1113 01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:33.480 for the door sert money, doing slash payments. So that's 1114 01:02:33.519 --> 01:02:36.440 what I spent my second tour doing is doing what's 1115 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:40.320 called damage mitigation, and so you're basically and then t 1116 01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:44.400 SC work. So that's the other component. It's you know, 1117 01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:51.480 leave behinds trieting lead behind. So you basically either are 1118 01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:57.719 getting that stuff and say, hey, you know, I understand that, 1119 01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:00.719 you know an operation happened. If you could, you know, 1120 01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:04.440 you basically get with the village elder. And what was 1121 01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:09.760 weird about maybe it's other places in the world. Afghanistan 1122 01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:13.440 money can make a death right. That was always really 1123 01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:19.239 odd to me. And it was fifteen hundred bucks, the 1124 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:23.400 equivalent of fifteen hundred ducks was the authorized payment. And 1125 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:27.760 I know I did damage mitigations for some very large targets. 1126 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:31.000 One of the biggest ones was I think mandated by 1127 01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:34.440 like I think ISAF at the time, because I think 1128 01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:37.599 ISAF had moved in by the time two thousand and five, 1129 01:03:38.440 --> 01:03:43.079 I believe they had taken over I think Kandahar, and 1130 01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:46.039 so it was like fifty four deaths. So it's like 1131 01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:48.679 basically a tough box full of money. You're taking a 1132 01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:50.960 tough box full of cash out there and giving it 1133 01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:53.880 to this guy, and sometimes they won't take cash because 1134 01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:57.079 they know that somebody's going to come and take that cash. 1135 01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:58.920 So then we're doing. 1136 01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:05.119 Animals. You basically buy livestock and you give them to 1137 01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:10.320 them and so so. And that was the case of 1138 01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:15.920 my second deployment, and on the second one, the the 1139 01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:17.199 medic who needed to. 1140 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:20.360 No I returned back. 1141 01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:22.920 So yeah, so I finished that. When out, it was 1142 01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:27.280 mainly working for the regiment, mainly doing damage mitigation, you know, 1143 01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:31.920 doing Slasha payments and working with TSC folks. I think 1144 01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:35.840 the diatocer, I forget what it's called. There's this own little. 1145 01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:36.840 Section yeah, in the compound. 1146 01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:39.719 Yeah, and so that's a whole other, really cool thing 1147 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.159 is probably not appropriate. 1148 01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:43.760 Talking, you know, it's it's interesting that you bring up 1149 01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:48.199 sort of the damage mitigation and how like there is 1150 01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:52.480 an assigned value to life out there and and it's 1151 01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:55.360 a little bit different. I think if you know, if 1152 01:04:55.400 --> 01:04:58.159 people were to hit a target and an innocent people 1153 01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:01.039 were killed, which which I don't I don't know that 1154 01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:03.159 I really saw that. I'm trying to think, but but 1155 01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:07.360 if it's a legit target, like there, people understand it's 1156 01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:11.519 a legit target, and there's there's a way to to 1157 01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:15.440 I don't want to say pacify the village. 1158 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:18.199 There's a way to like say, make it right. 1159 01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:22.480 I remember we went on target one time and it 1160 01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:26.719 was a legitimate target, but there was a very old 1161 01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:30.000 guy on the target and while we were you know, 1162 01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:32.599 doing the questioning and the bit and stuff like that, 1163 01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:36.719 he had a heart attack and you know, ar medic 1164 01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:40.400 tried to resuscitate him, couldn't resuscitate him and called it 1165 01:05:41.079 --> 01:05:44.840 and somebody came up with money and they're like, hey, 1166 01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:46.719 we're really sorry about this, and the family was like, 1167 01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:49.800 he wasn't taken as medication, he's been having pain. 1168 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.079 Like it was just. 1169 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:56.519 Yeah, so on that I think it was that trip. 1170 01:05:57.159 --> 01:06:01.440 So so a lot of it was from air, from casts, 1171 01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:04.880 so it was kids like these, I mean babies, So 1172 01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:09.239 they have a full list. So it's everything from kids people. 1173 01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:12.000 You know, you're not just talking about not just direct 1174 01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:17.559 any time close air support came in or or a 1175 01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:21.400 jade m guy drop right, whatever I see. And so yeah, 1176 01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:24.039 those would be because the Red International Red Cross gets 1177 01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.280 involved and so some of the big ones you had 1178 01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:32.400 an International Red Cross rep you had, I mean, it 1179 01:06:32.480 --> 01:06:35.440 was these are big deals to make to clean this 1180 01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:39.480 mess up. I did have one of those incidents. So 1181 01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:48.159 they for some reason had they guy was shot. So 1182 01:06:48.199 --> 01:06:49.719 I'll just tell you the story and then i'll tell 1183 01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:53.559 you what we discovered. Guy was shot for some reason. 1184 01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:55.440 They took him on the bird. Maybe they were working 1185 01:06:55.440 --> 01:07:02.039 on him, and he was end up dying and he 1186 01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:06.119 was in a refrigeration unit on Kandahar. All right, so 1187 01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:09.039 we got a mission and our job was fly down 1188 01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:12.719 to Candahar, get this body, figure out somebody who can 1189 01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:16.559 drive this body with you, go coordinate with some unit. 1190 01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:18.960 Like it's not like this is set up for you 1191 01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:21.599 to arrange all this and get this body back out 1192 01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:22.440 to the village. 1193 01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:25.239 Within three days, right, No, twenty four hours. Twenty four hours, Okay, 1194 01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:26.599 then the culture. 1195 01:07:26.440 --> 01:07:30.000 Has to be buried within twenty four hours. So one 1196 01:07:30.079 --> 01:07:33.000 we were trying to figure it out. So I'm like, hey, 1197 01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:37.199 I want to see this body, and we. 1198 01:07:37.360 --> 01:07:38.320 End up being. 1199 01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:44.480 It was like it could be a military age male, 1200 01:07:44.559 --> 01:07:46.400 but you could tell it was, you know, just by 1201 01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:48.960 pubic cair and things like that. You can be like, Okay, 1202 01:07:49.840 --> 01:07:53.880 this kid's maybe twelve to thirteen years old, you know, 1203 01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:55.039 and they're smaller folks. 1204 01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:55.960 Yeah. 1205 01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:59.400 Anyways, so it's like, okay, we need we need to 1206 01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:05.000 figure this out. So we coordinated the logistics and found 1207 01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:10.960 a unit to drive us out there. And I think 1208 01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:14.639 it was ended up being like the uh, the Princess's infantry. 1209 01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:16.960 For it was like the Canadian had owned the space 1210 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:18.520 where we needed to go. So it was like we 1211 01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:23.880 coordinated get this body out there. And and it's kind 1212 01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:24.760 of a sad story. 1213 01:08:25.159 --> 01:08:25.720 The kid. 1214 01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:31.239 The kid, it was actually mentally i think retarded, you know, 1215 01:08:31.880 --> 01:08:36.279 and he was running at the guy and they had 1216 01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:38.560 told him stop, you know, put your hands up and stop, 1217 01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:41.880 and with all the chaos going on, he just kept 1218 01:08:41.960 --> 01:08:44.680 running at him and they shot him. And you know, 1219 01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:48.119 so we, you know, through translators, stopped to talk to 1220 01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:51.039 the village elder and his family and explained to him, 1221 01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:53.000 you know what happened. You know, they perceived him as 1222 01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:56.119 a threat, and we want to make this right. You know, 1223 01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:57.880 what can we do to help your family? And so 1224 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:02.199 you ended up paying them out and and and it's 1225 01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:06.159 again that's the weird thing. It's like there's there's no 1226 01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:10.159 there's no vegeance afterwards, it is done, like we have 1227 01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:14.600 now made it right. And that that was what's really odd. 1228 01:09:14.600 --> 01:09:19.039 Because as a father, you know, it's like, it'd be 1229 01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:22.319 really hard to make that right with me. But for 1230 01:09:22.399 --> 01:09:27.640 some reason, culturally it was we had done due diligence 1231 01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:33.119 to mitigate the situation and make it right. And you know, 1232 01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:36.079 it's one of those the dirty sides of war that happened. 1233 01:09:36.319 --> 01:09:38.239 I feel that a lot of that had to do 1234 01:09:38.319 --> 01:09:42.359 with Poshtune Wally, you know, with you know the fact 1235 01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:44.520 that you know a lot of these tribes and a 1236 01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:47.079 lot of these families they were like the hat Fields 1237 01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:50.039 and the Kois, and there had to be a way 1238 01:09:50.079 --> 01:09:54.000 to stop the cycle of violence between them, and so 1239 01:09:54.079 --> 01:09:57.399 the blood price was it was a really it was 1240 01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:01.239 very real thing for them in order to you know, 1241 01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:03.359 to to knock that off. 1242 01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:07.800 And you know, it's just it's it's it's a very 1243 01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:11.560 interesting part of that culture. Yeah. 1244 01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:16.680 Yeah, So how was that for you on that trip 1245 01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:20.479 that you weren't really practicing medicine as much? Obviously was 1246 01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:24.960 it was very strenuous and probably interesting job. 1247 01:10:26.039 --> 01:10:27.800 But were you missing the medicine at all? 1248 01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:35.159 I think most medics downrange gravitate in their downtime two 1249 01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:37.600 because you know, you need to help out right. Yeah, 1250 01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:40.520 So especially the smaller base the smaller the base you're on, 1251 01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:46.119 you there's an unsaid expectation that that's where you are. 1252 01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:49.520 You're there, You introduce yourself, you tell them, and you 1253 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:52.439 kind of keep your skills up and you help them 1254 01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:53.119 out so. 1255 01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:55.319 You can go into like their clinic and do or 1256 01:10:55.359 --> 01:10:57.640 whatever and absolutely do whatever you could do. 1257 01:10:57.760 --> 01:11:01.159 Yeah, anything from just routine sick call to an I 1258 01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:03.720 D happens and so you're kind of called and then 1259 01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:07.680 you're kind of updated on their alert. Mosters, you introduce yourself, yea, 1260 01:11:07.880 --> 01:11:12.680 they know who you are, so when something happens, and yeah, 1261 01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:16.680 but yeah, for the most part, because let me try 1262 01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:21.039 to think. I think at that time we were with the Rangers. 1263 01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:26.600 We were on in cowst on the little compound right 1264 01:11:26.600 --> 01:11:30.119 there on Cowst in the in the tents before they 1265 01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.000 got the Alaskans, so I think they transitioned to the Alaskans, 1266 01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:36.000 but before it was like GP mediums the green tents, 1267 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.439 and then they got the nice Alaskans with the air conditioners. 1268 01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:41.039 So yeah, that that. 1269 01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:48.079 That trip was there, and so I want to say 1270 01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:51.079 that we weren't doing anything because no, because they had 1271 01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:54.560 a Charlie med that's right. So Cows had a Charlie 1272 01:11:54.560 --> 01:12:00.880 MED which is essentially a it's like a I guess, yeah, 1273 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:04.000 if you will. Yeah, so they have as much capability, 1274 01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:05.880 so you go over there and introduce your to self. 1275 01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:08.640 But for the most part they have enough. 1276 01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:09.159 Yeah. 1277 01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:13.119 Is that like a field surgical team Yeah, FST or whatever. 1278 01:12:14.319 --> 01:12:16.960 Yeah, it's like a it's like a BAT plus yeah. Yeah, 1279 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:19.279 because they have X ray capability, they have everything. 1280 01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:23.479 Okay, So how long was that trip? 1281 01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:27.000 So those were short rotations so that we were on 1282 01:12:27.039 --> 01:12:30.880 the same rotational cycle as the battalion, So I believe 1283 01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:33.800 they were I want to say ninety to one hundred 1284 01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:39.119 and twenty days I believe at the timeframe, so it 1285 01:12:39.159 --> 01:12:41.800 was three to four month rotations. So I did a 1286 01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:45.880 couple of those throughout the two thousand and five I 1287 01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:51.880 did two to three rotations, and then I was there. 1288 01:12:53.039 --> 01:12:55.399 I think I went back for just a really short 1289 01:12:55.399 --> 01:12:57.279 period of time and then had to go back again 1290 01:12:57.319 --> 01:13:01.680 because again civil affairs were still pretty small and we 1291 01:13:01.760 --> 01:13:07.239 had basically four teams that's all Jaysak had to support 1292 01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:09.600 all of their missions in Iraq and that's it for 1293 01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:13.000 c ATMs, So we were always on a cycle. Yeah, 1294 01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:17.159 and so I think we had to go in early 1295 01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:22.239 and it was four red wings. Okay, so it had 1296 01:13:22.760 --> 01:13:27.840 just happened, and I think they were needing. 1297 01:13:27.560 --> 01:13:30.279 To fast rope back in. So this is. 1298 01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:36.279 They had already happened, and I think they were it's 1299 01:13:36.279 --> 01:13:38.079 at the time period where they I think they were 1300 01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:42.840 doing a lot of the remains recovery stuff. And long 1301 01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:45.960 story short, our tasking was to do a lot of 1302 01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:53.800 the money stuff with the guy who was basically protecting 1303 01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:56.199 I guess Marcus and. 1304 01:13:58.039 --> 01:13:58.960 The team leader. 1305 01:13:58.960 --> 01:14:04.239 He was older as guy and he just wasn't fit 1306 01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:05.960 and just couldn't. 1307 01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:09.600 It was just it was it was a brutal environment. Yeah. 1308 01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:13.880 Yeah, And so they had spun us up to come 1309 01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:18.119 in early. So we came in early. We didn't end 1310 01:14:18.199 --> 01:14:22.760 up going to the site, but we just had finished 1311 01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:26.800 up the backside support to buy all the animals. I 1312 01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:28.640 think that was the end. We end up giving a 1313 01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:33.520 bunch of like animals. If I remember didn't want my recollection. 1314 01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:37.880 I don't know what really happened. My recollection is we 1315 01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:43.680 bought animals and had them had them delivered. 1316 01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:46.760 Interesting, So what was. 1317 01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:51.279 If you guys didn't go in like you would spun 1318 01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:54.880 up early to go support that you didn't actually go in. 1319 01:14:55.520 --> 01:14:57.239 What was the rest of that trip like for you? 1320 01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:02.600 So the rest of that rip at that time. 1321 01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:07.640 We got spun up for that, but we were no 1322 01:15:07.760 --> 01:15:11.000 longer attached to the regiment. Now we were attached with 1323 01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:15.199 the seals, but they put us in the J three 1324 01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:20.880 IO okay, And so that's the information operation. So you're 1325 01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:24.199 part of the three shop working doing more of the 1326 01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:28.520 with the t S folks. And so. 1327 01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.399 We we would we did the same thing. 1328 01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:37.359 But this time for the Salt Force. At that time 1329 01:15:37.439 --> 01:15:41.680 it was the guys from the beach rotating in and out, 1330 01:15:42.319 --> 01:15:46.359 and so we did the same type of payments damage 1331 01:15:46.399 --> 01:15:50.359 mitigation for them. And so, so were you out of 1332 01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:53.319 Cobble at that point in time? Now we were at 1333 01:15:53.399 --> 01:15:56.159 we were at so we were at the compound on Bogram. 1334 01:15:57.039 --> 01:16:01.680 That's yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry said Cobble, but yeah Bogram, 1335 01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:06.880 Yeah okay. So so then how because how would you 1336 01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:12.640 guys work the payments out of Bogram Because that task 1337 01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:16.159 force went everywhere in country, So there are a lot 1338 01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:21.039 of places you guys aren't going to drive to. Ring flights, okay, 1339 01:16:21.439 --> 01:16:25.640 ring flights. Yeah, it's it's kind of like you hitched 1340 01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:29.279 a ride on anything. It was like reflecting back on it, 1341 01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:32.159 it was like we had to figure it out. 1342 01:16:32.239 --> 01:16:36.039 It wasn't like it was arranged for us. So so 1343 01:16:36.199 --> 01:16:38.199 if if we needed to go and it was in 1344 01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:41.840 the oda's battle space, then we would go over to 1345 01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:45.279 Camp Vans, go to see Jasota, tell them we need 1346 01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:47.159 to get over here. Then we would catch a flight 1347 01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:50.520 to Candahart and Candahar get on a ring flight, or 1348 01:16:51.680 --> 01:16:54.039 if there was a convoy going out. You're just it's 1349 01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:57.520 it's like you're a hitchhiker with an objective to do. 1350 01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:00.520 So it's it's really kind of crazy. 1351 01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:02.920 That is well, so for those of you, you guys 1352 01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:05.479 can probably get it through context. But ring flights were 1353 01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:09.640 basically just the patterned you know, flights from base to 1354 01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:13.479 base a lot of times supplies or personnel pick up 1355 01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:16.439 and drop off, but they were scheduled flights. It would 1356 01:17:16.479 --> 01:17:18.920 be like it'd be like hopping on a rail line 1357 01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:23.399 and trying to get to one city and then hitchhiking 1358 01:17:23.479 --> 01:17:26.760 to another city to get to where you need to 1359 01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:27.119 go to. 1360 01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:30.640 It is, and sometimes they would already have another tasking 1361 01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:33.199 for you, like hey, this just happened over here. We 1362 01:17:33.319 --> 01:17:35.560 need you guys to hurry up and get back and 1363 01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:37.680 we're like, okay, we got to find. 1364 01:17:37.479 --> 01:17:39.760 A round, like we have no assets to do that. 1365 01:17:40.279 --> 01:17:45.199 Yeah, so it wasn't like we had vehicles, right, like 1366 01:17:45.239 --> 01:17:47.680 we're just a team and a tenth and it's like 1367 01:17:47.720 --> 01:17:49.640 you're on a page or which was like okay, this 1368 01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:53.000 just happened, we need you to go do this or yeah. 1369 01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:56.760 So it's it was, yeah, it was kind of fine 1370 01:17:58.159 --> 01:17:58.439 to me. 1371 01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:01.880 Also in a way though it seems kind of fun. 1372 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:04.439 It's like it's like it's like being a hobo on 1373 01:18:04.479 --> 01:18:06.199 a train, right, it's like the open air. 1374 01:18:06.359 --> 01:18:09.800 It's like it's fun until it's not fun, right, and 1375 01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:14.039 I'll tell you when it's not fun. So we got 1376 01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:16.399 with the Royal Princess Infantry. 1377 01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:20.439 So well it was it was down. 1378 01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:25.600 It was down in kandaharto summer. Oh no, no, no, 1379 01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:28.880 it wasn't in Candahart. It was some I don't know 1380 01:18:28.920 --> 01:18:31.000 what they're called. It was it was smaller than. 1381 01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:32.039 A cop Okay. 1382 01:18:32.159 --> 01:18:37.680 Well, it's like basically like you're out there and just 1383 01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:42.640 these little tents, well they're not little tents. I can't 1384 01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:47.439 even just describe them. But we we end up getting 1385 01:18:47.479 --> 01:18:50.520 stuck there for a week. So it's you know, just 1386 01:18:50.600 --> 01:18:54.399 living out of a small rock. But it was like 1387 01:18:54.840 --> 01:18:57.039 we were it was hot as ship and they kept 1388 01:18:57.119 --> 01:18:59.000 us outside and so we were like laying on these 1389 01:18:59.039 --> 01:19:01.119 hot rocks on cars board. I got pictures of it. 1390 01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:04.199 It's crazy. So to get patting, we like broke down 1391 01:19:04.239 --> 01:19:07.920 some mr boxes. So it was just we're just sleeping there, 1392 01:19:07.960 --> 01:19:10.039 just trying to find anything to get us back to 1393 01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:12.880 Kandaharsh so we could get on a sea when thirty to. 1394 01:19:12.880 --> 01:19:15.399 Get back up to Bogrum. 1395 01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:19.279 And so yeah, there were some times that were just 1396 01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:21.399 like it was like being a hobo. You're there, like 1397 01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:23.760 who are you guys, and what are you here for? 1398 01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:27.079 And we're like, well, we we just finished, you know, 1399 01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:29.880 taking care of a tasking. But now we got to 1400 01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:33.159 get back. So you guys got anything going back? And 1401 01:19:33.199 --> 01:19:36.199 it'd be like, yeah, we got you know, we have 1402 01:19:36.319 --> 01:19:39.239 some you know, some strike you know, whatever vehicle we 1403 01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:41.399 gotta cut, you know, we got to police, you know, 1404 01:19:41.479 --> 01:19:45.079 some MP's going back. So you just hey, can we 1405 01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:46.439 hit you a ride? And we're like, let me see 1406 01:19:46.439 --> 01:19:48.000 if we got room in the back of the vehicle, 1407 01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:53.960 and uh yeah, it's it's it was pretty well. But yeah, 1408 01:19:54.239 --> 01:19:58.600 until you've experienced the polar opposite, which like full command 1409 01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:02.119 and control of which I you know, like being embedded 1410 01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:06.800 in the eighty second during the surge much different. So yeah, 1411 01:20:06.840 --> 01:20:09.199 it was kind of fun, but then again, at times 1412 01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:12.960 it was kind of shitty because you're like, we don't 1413 01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:15.600 have any support here, like we're just trying to figure 1414 01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:17.920 it out. But I guess that's the I mean, that's 1415 01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:20.039 that's the job. That's what So that's what the teams did. 1416 01:20:20.079 --> 01:20:22.920 So it is I think they get a lot of 1417 01:20:22.960 --> 01:20:26.199 a flak right for being a civil affairs team, but 1418 01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:29.520 in the reality, it's like you are kind of just 1419 01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:32.039 like three or four people kind of hanging it out there, 1420 01:20:32.119 --> 01:20:37.640 hitching rides all over a country and war just trying 1421 01:20:37.640 --> 01:20:39.199 to do these odd jobs. 1422 01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:41.760 So so. 1423 01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:47.000 Anything, if anything interesting happened, I mean, if that you 1424 01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:48.680 want to cover on that trip, feel free. 1425 01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:50.159 If not, we can fast forward. 1426 01:20:52.680 --> 01:20:57.920 Not a whole lot. I did get to discover a 1427 01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:00.640 so so we had a payment for the seals. 1428 01:21:01.600 --> 01:21:03.439 So it was out in Frau. 1429 01:21:03.920 --> 01:21:05.319 I don't know if you know where fra It's like 1430 01:21:05.520 --> 01:21:06.960 right by the Iranium border. 1431 01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:10.840 Yeah, I believe. So there was a. 1432 01:21:10.479 --> 01:21:12.680 An ODA there and I won't say what group they're 1433 01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:17.640 from and so we showed up and so I'll describe 1434 01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:20.479 them though, because it's funny and maybe you can relate 1435 01:21:20.520 --> 01:21:23.560 to it, and maybe some folks can relate to it. 1436 01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:29.680 So they had a hit, right they ended up. I 1437 01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:32.920 think it was one of those stories where like the 1438 01:21:33.079 --> 01:21:37.880 daughter picked it was like some prominent person and I 1439 01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:41.600 think the Agriculture department or something just a government official 1440 01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:45.720 will just leave it at that, end up hitting the house. 1441 01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:51.600 Daughter picks up a weapon, shoot the daughter, and so 1442 01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:55.199 we need to fly out to kind of make this right. 1443 01:21:55.720 --> 01:21:56.640 So we fly out in. 1444 01:21:56.640 --> 01:21:59.119 Our linkup is with the with the ODA out there, 1445 01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:02.199 and so we you know, do the trip, you know, 1446 01:22:02.479 --> 01:22:06.560 mister Toad's wild ride from Bogram to Candahar can get 1447 01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:09.439 to the Ring flights and we end up in space 1448 01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:12.039 camp way out here in the middle of nowhere. And 1449 01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:15.319 we get there and like these. 1450 01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:21.920 It's like mad Max. These there's like an oh, they've native. 1451 01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:25.920 So these dudes had made and welded choppers. So they 1452 01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:29.279 took these like hundred I don't know, the hundred cc 1453 01:22:29.640 --> 01:22:33.039 like I don't not even like hondas. They're like piece 1454 01:22:33.079 --> 01:22:37.279 of crap motorcycles, and so they got them all raked out, 1455 01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:41.039 and they're these dudes in like little shorts, no shirt, 1456 01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:45.399 yoked out of their mind on these like choppers riding around. 1457 01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:48.720 We're like, why in the fuck is going on here? 1458 01:22:48.760 --> 01:22:52.439 And they're pissed. They're like, you just caused us a 1459 01:22:52.640 --> 01:22:58.359 catastrophic loss of rapport. That's gonna take us whatever. They're pissed, right, 1460 01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:01.439 But at the same time, we're like look at like 1461 01:23:01.479 --> 01:23:03.560 we're like looking at half of these guys and we're like, 1462 01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:05.800 what the fuck are you guys doing out here? 1463 01:23:06.760 --> 01:23:11.359 Yeah, like Colonel Kurtz back there, like yeah, I. 1464 01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:15.279 Mean the sweetest gym, Like the sweetest gym with like 1465 01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:16.920 a guy like making your proteins. 1466 01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:17.760 I'll never forget. 1467 01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:21.399 Like we go into the gym and it's like it's exquisite, right, 1468 01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:24.039 It's not your like jail house gym with like cinder 1469 01:23:24.079 --> 01:23:25.600 blocks like your typical one. 1470 01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:27.640 Yeah, it's like really nice and. 1471 01:23:29.279 --> 01:23:31.600 Like there's like an afghan in there, like making like 1472 01:23:31.640 --> 01:23:35.680 protein smoothies for everybody. And I'm like, guys riding these 1473 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:38.399 like sons of anarchies. 1474 01:23:38.479 --> 01:23:41.560 Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah. 1475 01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:45.439 That that that must have been challenging though, for them 1476 01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:49.560 and for other Battle Space owners especially conventional. 1477 01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:57.359 That you know, sometimes Task Force or or other units, 1478 01:23:57.680 --> 01:23:59.960 you know, any DA units would. 1479 01:23:59.840 --> 01:24:06.000 Make a mess, and and generally that mess was deserved, right. 1480 01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:13.800 Maybe occasionally it wasn't, but generally it was it was deserved. 1481 01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:17.159 And if they start receiving fire and they start calling 1482 01:24:17.199 --> 01:24:20.640 in casts, you know, things happen. 1483 01:24:23.640 --> 01:24:26.479 But for the battle space owner who doesn't have really 1484 01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:27.239 have any. 1485 01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:31.359 Control over that, and who who doesn't who does see 1486 01:24:31.399 --> 01:24:39.840 it as a catastrophic loss of rapport when maybe they 1487 01:24:39.840 --> 01:24:43.600 didn't really actually have rapport. They just the problems weren't 1488 01:24:43.640 --> 01:24:48.319 right there in their face or whatever. But but they 1489 01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:49.600 did have to go in and clean that up a 1490 01:24:49.640 --> 01:24:50.199 lot of times. 1491 01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:56.960 Yeah, and you're exactly right. And I'll on that same 1492 01:24:57.119 --> 01:25:02.319 trip a different place back back to Cowst. I believe 1493 01:25:02.359 --> 01:25:05.000 that eighty second owned it at the time. And so 1494 01:25:05.119 --> 01:25:10.159 another part of our job was detainee release. So you know, 1495 01:25:10.199 --> 01:25:13.600 you had the TSCF, I think it's called bray Screen 1496 01:25:13.680 --> 01:25:18.680 Facility Holding facility, whatever it is TSF. Our job was 1497 01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:22.960 to go release these guys. Now, some of these guys 1498 01:25:23.319 --> 01:25:26.159 were still on people's list, and they didn't know that 1499 01:25:26.279 --> 01:25:29.000 these guys were already there, right, So they were either 1500 01:25:29.079 --> 01:25:33.640 bringing releasing them back to go recruit and to do 1501 01:25:34.039 --> 01:25:40.720 tasks right, and so I'll never forget like they had 1502 01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:44.600 just did something, they had done an op in this area. 1503 01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:49.079 We had gotten given a bunch of pictures and told 1504 01:25:49.319 --> 01:25:53.439 we're told what to brief this commander. So you're going 1505 01:25:53.479 --> 01:25:56.760 in I think it's a I think it was a 1506 01:25:56.800 --> 01:26:01.199 BCT commander. So you know, you brief in this commander 1507 01:26:01.680 --> 01:26:04.279 here I am. I think that's you know, E seven 1508 01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:07.079 going in there briefing and six. 1509 01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:09.520 A toll. 1510 01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:14.159 Bullshit story with pictures and everything to go with it. 1511 01:26:14.199 --> 01:26:16.079 And here's what just happened in your space, and here's 1512 01:26:16.079 --> 01:26:20.199 what's going on. And so so that was kind of 1513 01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:25.359 I think sometimes we're the left hand didn't talk to 1514 01:26:25.399 --> 01:26:28.239 the right. Maybe it's to buy design and intentional, and 1515 01:26:28.279 --> 01:26:32.960 I think it was. And I think there's certain things 1516 01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:34.600 that people need to know and they don't need to know. 1517 01:26:34.640 --> 01:26:37.800 And apparently that that battlespace owner did not need to 1518 01:26:37.840 --> 01:26:40.520 know that we were going to you know, not only 1519 01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:44.319 did we make a mess, but now we just release somebody. 1520 01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:47.560 And I at times I had issue with this, but 1521 01:26:49.159 --> 01:26:53.000 there's nothing you can do about it. When you think 1522 01:26:53.039 --> 01:26:57.319 about conventional soldiers out there, you know, as someone who 1523 01:26:57.399 --> 01:27:01.640 later became a senior leader. There's people who are going 1524 01:27:01.680 --> 01:27:05.000 to going out there, risking their lives because they have 1525 01:27:05.079 --> 01:27:09.119 a target deck and they're young troops who are executing 1526 01:27:09.159 --> 01:27:13.760 missions to find a guy that they don't realize, well, 1527 01:27:13.800 --> 01:27:16.920 that guy's already been found and he's back out there, 1528 01:27:17.319 --> 01:27:20.840 and he's back out there for a different reason. But 1529 01:27:21.439 --> 01:27:23.720 these guys could be going out there just doing their 1530 01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:28.600 job and hit an ID right and you know, and 1531 01:27:28.880 --> 01:27:30.760 I'm sure they did, and I'm sure people did lose 1532 01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:36.159 their lives. But so you know, those are some of 1533 01:27:36.199 --> 01:27:38.840 the other dynamics of that job that were a little 1534 01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:41.000 bit different, you know, if you will. 1535 01:27:42.600 --> 01:27:46.960 But it's you know, yeah, I mean would it would 1536 01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:50.640 Would it be because they they thought that they'd flipped 1537 01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:55.560 the guy, or because they he wasn't even though he 1538 01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:59.359 may have been an ID facilitator, he was they had 1539 01:27:59.399 --> 01:28:02.239 his like, they had his number, and they were waiting 1540 01:28:02.319 --> 01:28:06.279 for him to unwittingly lead them to a fatter target. 1541 01:28:06.800 --> 01:28:09.359 I think that's what one hundred percent was all the time. Yeah, 1542 01:28:09.399 --> 01:28:11.840 it was for the most part. It's just hey, they'd 1543 01:28:11.840 --> 01:28:16.119 already got him, and you do this task force. 1544 01:28:15.880 --> 01:28:18.560 And then yeah, you get to go free. 1545 01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:21.039 It's almost like cops, right, Yeah, it's like, Okay, we 1546 01:28:21.119 --> 01:28:25.600 got you on a small yeah, we'll we'll we'll flip you. 1547 01:28:25.600 --> 01:28:27.880 You go catch us a bigger fish. Yeah, and we'll 1548 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:28.479 make this good. 1549 01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:32.920 But generally, I don't know, I have mixed feelings. 1550 01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:35.600 About that because I especially for the idea, those guys 1551 01:28:35.600 --> 01:28:38.079 were so difficult. 1552 01:28:37.720 --> 01:28:40.680 To to prosecute. 1553 01:28:40.720 --> 01:28:45.479 They were not as targets but as criminals because they 1554 01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:46.960 generally weren't going to pick. 1555 01:28:46.840 --> 01:28:47.960 Up weapons during fights. 1556 01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:52.399 They they knew that there probably wasn't you know, a 1557 01:28:52.439 --> 01:28:58.680 lot on them, and and you know, units would roll 1558 01:28:58.720 --> 01:29:00.880 those guys up two and three times, put them into 1559 01:29:00.920 --> 01:29:04.439 the you know, the American system, the Afghanian system, or 1560 01:29:04.439 --> 01:29:06.640 the Iraqi system, and then those guys would be back 1561 01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:06.880 out on. 1562 01:29:06.880 --> 01:29:09.920 The street and no time, flat back doing business. 1563 01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:13.239 And they're not the ones out there digging the holes 1564 01:29:13.239 --> 01:29:15.359 and put the IDs in. That's some farmer who's getting 1565 01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:18.720 paid you know, twenty bucks, fifty bucks. 1566 01:29:19.159 --> 01:29:26.920 Yeah, it was a very challenging environment for sure. Yeah. 1567 01:29:26.960 --> 01:29:31.239 So how long roughly was that deployment them? 1568 01:29:31.319 --> 01:29:35.239 So I think at that time those were those were 1569 01:29:36.640 --> 01:29:40.079 I want to say one twenties. Okay, I think those 1570 01:29:40.119 --> 01:29:41.239 were just four months. 1571 01:29:41.359 --> 01:29:46.279 Yeah, but you guys weren't on their rotation because they 1572 01:29:46.279 --> 01:29:51.520 are on like you know, red, green, yellow cycle, whatever 1573 01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:52.600 cycles are on, they're on. 1574 01:29:53.039 --> 01:29:55.760 And but you guys are small, you know, you guys 1575 01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:57.239 have to match. 1576 01:29:57.079 --> 01:30:01.039 Every Sometimes we would sometimes we win. Sometimes. I think 1577 01:30:01.079 --> 01:30:05.439 once we switched from directly supporting direct attachment to the 1578 01:30:06.279 --> 01:30:09.079 to like the the units that made up the task 1579 01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:12.439 force to direct these being a task Force asset, then 1580 01:30:12.479 --> 01:30:14.720 it was much more fluid. You just you know, you 1581 01:30:14.800 --> 01:30:18.760 had a two day rip. Yeah, and then you know, 1582 01:30:18.920 --> 01:30:21.960 you just everybody goes up, meets in bogram, do a 1583 01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:25.840 high five, they go, you stay and you instantly or 1584 01:30:26.439 --> 01:30:29.680 are back on. So I believe we were on one 1585 01:30:29.760 --> 01:30:35.039 hundred and twenty days cycles at the time. Okay, but yeah, 1586 01:30:35.159 --> 01:30:37.920 it was interesting. You know. The other interesting dynamic of 1587 01:30:37.920 --> 01:30:42.000 that is being being in the in the io cell. 1588 01:30:42.079 --> 01:30:45.039 You also got to see because I believe at the time, 1589 01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:50.399 you know, so red Wing happened. And I'll I remember 1590 01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:55.840 this one time we got pulled into the into the 1591 01:30:55.840 --> 01:30:58.760 the talk and it was basically that we were writing 1592 01:30:58.760 --> 01:31:03.720 the narrative about another craft getting shot down and it 1593 01:31:03.760 --> 01:31:07.000 was it was like, Okay, well it had gotten shot down, 1594 01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:10.199 but we're like at the time, I think there was like, well, 1595 01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:11.760 we're not going to give them credit. We don't want 1596 01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:14.239 them to get credit for shooting one down. So it 1597 01:31:14.319 --> 01:31:17.680 had mechanical filure. And that was my first really experience 1598 01:31:17.760 --> 01:31:25.960 with Siah those two things with the there's another narrative, 1599 01:31:26.319 --> 01:31:31.319 and the narrative can evolve based upon the needs of 1600 01:31:31.439 --> 01:31:36.000 the bigger picture or organization or objectives and not really 1601 01:31:36.039 --> 01:31:38.880 based upon ground truth. And I think a lot of 1602 01:31:38.920 --> 01:31:42.359 people get upset with that, and you hear a lot 1603 01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:46.000 of stories where it's like, well, why didn't they tell 1604 01:31:46.039 --> 01:31:50.119 the truth? Or they expect people like myself or like 1605 01:31:50.159 --> 01:31:53.560 yourself who were there. It's on the onus becomes on 1606 01:31:53.640 --> 01:31:56.159 you to correct the narrative. And you see this all 1607 01:31:56.199 --> 01:31:59.920 the time, and that's tough, right because it's like, well, 1608 01:32:00.720 --> 01:32:04.119 you know, we're we're service member following orders and we're 1609 01:32:04.159 --> 01:32:05.920 doing what I told them. We didn't come up with 1610 01:32:05.960 --> 01:32:09.239 the narrative. For some reason, it was needed to be 1611 01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:10.560 that way. I don't know why. 1612 01:32:10.760 --> 01:32:13.159 And I think another part of that too is is 1613 01:32:13.920 --> 01:32:18.039 I don't think that I'm not saying always, but I 1614 01:32:18.039 --> 01:32:22.600 don't think generally it's it's with the impetus to mislead Americans. 1615 01:32:22.720 --> 01:32:25.319 It's that there is a full blown propaganda war going 1616 01:32:25.359 --> 01:32:31.000 on with the Taliban, and you know, they're out there 1617 01:32:31.039 --> 01:32:33.600 saying we're using human shields. They're out there, you know, 1618 01:32:33.640 --> 01:32:38.399 saying these things, and you can't give them these victories 1619 01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:42.359 of shooting down a here an aircraft. 1620 01:32:42.680 --> 01:32:45.840 And vice versa. I think when some of our folks 1621 01:32:45.880 --> 01:32:48.800 something happens, So I think you're you're spot on it. 1622 01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:51.039 And I experienced that we talked about a little bit early. 1623 01:32:51.119 --> 01:32:57.920 I experienced that myself in a later deployment. So I 1624 01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:03.239 agree with you that it's it seems nefarious and ill 1625 01:33:03.319 --> 01:33:07.840 intentioned and ill will behind it. The reality is there's 1626 01:33:07.880 --> 01:33:14.119 a strategic that we're not playing checkers here, We're playing chess, 1627 01:33:14.880 --> 01:33:19.760 and so it's a bigger narrative that ties into you know, 1628 01:33:19.840 --> 01:33:24.039 a soldier's death. I was told one time, a soldier's 1629 01:33:24.079 --> 01:33:29.800 death is a tactical loss. You a civilian, innocent civilian 1630 01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:34.560 death can be a strategic loss, and so sometimes they 1631 01:33:34.600 --> 01:33:42.920 need to adjust the narrative to gained gain or achieve 1632 01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:49.279 the objective or or or or perception of what's going. 1633 01:33:49.039 --> 01:33:59.640 On now, It's I'm in Afghanistan by probably maybe two 1634 01:33:59.640 --> 01:34:03.880 thousand seven or eight, I'm not sure. Like they were 1635 01:34:04.079 --> 01:34:08.000 very good at and I'm not saying there were no 1636 01:34:08.039 --> 01:34:12.479 civilian casualties in Afghanistan, because there were, but they were 1637 01:34:12.680 --> 01:34:17.399 very good at saying that teams had gone out and 1638 01:34:17.439 --> 01:34:19.720 just killed all these kids and everybody on target. And 1639 01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:22.600 I'm talking about casts, I'm talking about bullets to the 1640 01:34:22.680 --> 01:34:28.680 head execution style, and and international across they would shut 1641 01:34:28.680 --> 01:34:31.880 the battle space down. They they had the power to 1642 01:34:31.960 --> 01:34:35.960 go to our government and whomever else to basically shut 1643 01:34:35.960 --> 01:34:39.479 the battle space down while they conducted an investigation. 1644 01:34:40.399 --> 01:34:44.800 And you know, and that was so in Candahar. 1645 01:34:44.880 --> 01:34:47.840 You might take all this ground and push you know, 1646 01:34:47.960 --> 01:34:52.800 the Taliban out, you know, but then the Taliban say, hey, 1647 01:34:54.000 --> 01:35:00.279 execution on this target, and battle space would get shut down. 1648 01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:04.640 International across go out do their investigation, and the Taliban 1649 01:35:04.680 --> 01:35:05.560 would all move back in. 1650 01:35:07.840 --> 01:35:09.960 You know. So there was very much. 1651 01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:16.399 A propaganda war going on at all times. Being in 1652 01:35:16.039 --> 01:35:19.840 uh in the J three io, were you ever privy 1653 01:35:19.960 --> 01:35:26.760 to any sort of theoretical good idea of fairy stuff 1654 01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:29.439 that just having been out there on the ground, you 1655 01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:31.680 knew was not gonna fly. 1656 01:35:41.159 --> 01:35:46.279 Not that I can not that I can think of. 1657 01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:54.000 There's a lot of like, uh, interesting technical things that 1658 01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:58.199 they employ. Again that and I'm sure you're probably aware 1659 01:35:58.199 --> 01:36:00.880 and some of those you question those like you're gonna 1660 01:36:00.920 --> 01:36:05.560 do what and put that and where and they're not 1661 01:36:05.600 --> 01:36:10.199 going to find that, you know, like but but yeah, 1662 01:36:10.239 --> 01:36:13.319 so I mean other than things like that, no, none 1663 01:36:13.319 --> 01:36:16.880 that No, I always really it about. I always just 1664 01:36:16.960 --> 01:36:21.960 question from the optic of luckily like that incident that 1665 01:36:21.960 --> 01:36:26.880 that that forty seven when when that one got shot 1666 01:36:26.960 --> 01:36:29.119 at no one died on it. But that's what you 1667 01:36:29.199 --> 01:36:34.560 always that's what people seem to gravitate towards is where 1668 01:36:35.319 --> 01:36:40.000 kind of the conspiracy theory kind of jumps in is. 1669 01:36:40.600 --> 01:36:43.319 And I think that's the that's the danger of it, 1670 01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:49.760 right because when people don't have clarity and there's like 1671 01:36:49.920 --> 01:36:53.800 ambiguity exists, they come up with their own narrative and 1672 01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:57.840 sometimes their own narrative is much worse than reality, right right, 1673 01:36:58.359 --> 01:37:04.920 But intentionally they don't get clarity. Yeah, And so I 1674 01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:08.680 think that's you know, that's a it's a it's a 1675 01:37:08.840 --> 01:37:10.119 double edged sword, it is. 1676 01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:15.119 And to be fair, the military has you know, whether 1677 01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:18.600 it's a sexual assault under a command or like, the 1678 01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:23.359 military does have this history of covering up its mistakes, 1679 01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:26.880 so it's very hard sometimes to tell when it's a 1680 01:37:26.920 --> 01:37:32.359 cover up and when it's when it is like legit sort. 1681 01:37:32.079 --> 01:37:33.840 Of IO operations. 1682 01:37:34.479 --> 01:37:38.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So how long were you on this 1683 01:37:39.159 --> 01:37:43.079 rotation of these unit of this task force? 1684 01:37:43.560 --> 01:37:47.079 So I did a few of Afghanistan and then the 1685 01:37:47.119 --> 01:37:50.880 next and then the surge happened, So I did that 1686 01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:57.560 pretty much consistently. And then two thousand and seven is 1687 01:37:57.600 --> 01:38:00.720 when every got is when the mass flow of troops 1688 01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:05.640 went to Baghdad for the surge, and so I think 1689 01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:09.600 that was spring, okay, spring of seven. 1690 01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:13.319 And did you say that you were with the eighty 1691 01:38:13.359 --> 01:38:14.039 second at that point? 1692 01:38:14.479 --> 01:38:17.600 So at that time we all got pulled off of 1693 01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:21.399 our regional mission. I guess it was a higher precedence, 1694 01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:28.479 and so we let me think about this. We had 1695 01:38:28.479 --> 01:38:34.039 additionally the civil affairs had additionally split, so they didn't 1696 01:38:34.279 --> 01:38:37.479 get a bunch of new people, but they basically cut 1697 01:38:37.520 --> 01:38:40.399 the battalions in half, and so the ninety six became 1698 01:38:40.439 --> 01:38:42.920 the ninety sixth and ninety seventh, and then the ninety 1699 01:38:42.920 --> 01:38:45.359 sixth and ninety seventh became the ninety six, seventh and 1700 01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:50.000 ninety eighth, and so I had moved to the ninety seventh. 1701 01:38:50.279 --> 01:38:53.119 We had become the same building. We just like you're 1702 01:38:53.159 --> 01:38:58.359 now the ninety seventh. So so I was no longer 1703 01:38:58.680 --> 01:39:03.039 part of that group. I think that tasking then became 1704 01:39:03.239 --> 01:39:06.000 where it used to be a company centric four teams 1705 01:39:06.039 --> 01:39:08.319 that did it. I think they ended up rotating and 1706 01:39:08.359 --> 01:39:13.039 around the battalion, and so the surge happened, we all 1707 01:39:13.079 --> 01:39:17.319 got pulled in and I can remember like every team 1708 01:39:17.359 --> 01:39:18.880 from every company was. 1709 01:39:18.840 --> 01:39:21.359 Going to Iraq. 1710 01:39:21.600 --> 01:39:24.199 So for the most part, there was a couple guys 1711 01:39:24.199 --> 01:39:27.840 on regional trips in Africa, but for the most part, 1712 01:39:27.960 --> 01:39:32.479 and maybe some down in South America, but for the 1713 01:39:32.479 --> 01:39:34.960 most part, folks were going to Iraq to be part 1714 01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:35.800 of the surge. 1715 01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:39.439 And how how was that for you after you know, 1716 01:39:39.520 --> 01:39:43.399 working with Task Force, working Rangers, Seal Team six and 1717 01:39:43.439 --> 01:39:44.680 now you're going to the eighty second. 1718 01:39:45.039 --> 01:39:50.119 That was horrible And it was horrible because I think, 1719 01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:54.399 well one that time in Iraq was horrible. I think 1720 01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:56.319 it was horrible for a lot of people. It was 1721 01:39:56.720 --> 01:39:58.640 it was the heights of the casualties. If I think 1722 01:39:58.680 --> 01:40:02.199 that again, like I don't know exact numbers, but I 1723 01:40:02.199 --> 01:40:06.039 think we were about tracking about one hundred deaths service 1724 01:40:06.079 --> 01:40:08.680 members a month at the time period of the height. 1725 01:40:10.439 --> 01:40:15.000 And so I was assigned to Solder City. So I 1726 01:40:15.880 --> 01:40:18.640 Solder City and I lived at the police station there. 1727 01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:22.159 So we were embedded with the police at these little 1728 01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:26.079 Joint security DJSS district Joint Security station I believe they 1729 01:40:26.079 --> 01:40:26.439 were called. 1730 01:40:27.079 --> 01:40:29.520 And I heard Solder City. Was that nice that time 1731 01:40:29.520 --> 01:40:29.880 of year? 1732 01:40:30.319 --> 01:40:34.479 Yes? No, that was not a Yeah, that was a 1733 01:40:34.520 --> 01:40:35.119 dangerous place. 1734 01:40:35.199 --> 01:40:36.199 Yeah. 1735 01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:41.119 And so interestingly I loved my dad was also in 1736 01:40:41.640 --> 01:40:44.079 theater at the same time. Was he still with three 1737 01:40:44.119 --> 01:40:46.319 Idea or where was he was still at Third I 1738 01:40:46.439 --> 01:40:51.760 D at the time? No, I think he was. I 1739 01:40:51.800 --> 01:40:56.119 could be wrong. He was either with Third ID or 1740 01:40:57.399 --> 01:41:01.640 with First I D because one of the one of 1741 01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:06.079 the units I think it was Third ID. But so 1742 01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:08.760 he was at I don't know what main base he 1743 01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:13.600 was at, but I was. We were working. Our headquarters 1744 01:41:13.600 --> 01:41:17.680 element was in Taji and then we lived at the 1745 01:41:18.640 --> 01:41:25.279 police station and that was all casualties. Again, so that 1746 01:41:25.399 --> 01:41:29.720 was being a medic every day, all day, and that 1747 01:41:29.880 --> 01:41:34.079 was a lot of my frustration with I think some 1748 01:41:34.119 --> 01:41:39.000 of the leadership of eighty second is they would rotate through. 1749 01:41:39.039 --> 01:41:41.199 So they would come through and rotate do the command 1750 01:41:41.319 --> 01:41:45.720 visits to the outstation, and and you know, everybody's like, 1751 01:41:45.880 --> 01:41:48.239 it's one thing in training to live like shit, right, 1752 01:41:48.520 --> 01:41:50.680 It's a whole other thing to live like shit when 1753 01:41:50.680 --> 01:41:54.800 you're in the shit. Yeah, And so you know, like 1754 01:41:54.880 --> 01:41:58.760 things like running water just you know, tullets overflowing with 1755 01:41:59.279 --> 01:42:02.520 shit that importa potties that were full of mortar holes. 1756 01:42:03.119 --> 01:42:06.039 You don't know if you're gonna die sweating on a portagehn, 1757 01:42:06.199 --> 01:42:10.359 you know what I mean. And so you know, like 1758 01:42:10.680 --> 01:42:13.319 so that was and then there was you know, everybody's 1759 01:42:13.359 --> 01:42:15.640 eating the can. There was like this weird canned food 1760 01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:18.439 they had that you like, poked it and it. So 1761 01:42:18.520 --> 01:42:21.039 you were eating like shit. You weren't eating quality. You 1762 01:42:21.079 --> 01:42:25.319 were eating but not quality fit. And then the freedom maneuver, 1763 01:42:25.560 --> 01:42:30.039 I think was two streets. You could patrol two streets 1764 01:42:30.560 --> 01:42:36.640 and you were almost one hundred percent gonna get alice 1765 01:42:36.720 --> 01:42:42.640 hit one ID. And at the time they had released 1766 01:42:42.760 --> 01:42:46.279 because of the again like the strategic loss of civilians, 1767 01:42:47.000 --> 01:42:52.359 the the there was a rule that no vehicle could 1768 01:42:52.479 --> 01:42:56.439 drive faster than five miles an hour. So you think 1769 01:42:56.479 --> 01:43:00.760 about this. Yeah, you know, city structure lobbing grenades into 1770 01:43:00.800 --> 01:43:04.199 your vehicles. So we put like welded tops on all 1771 01:43:04.239 --> 01:43:07.680 the humbies and then at that point they you had 1772 01:43:07.680 --> 01:43:14.399 the big rhino mount for I guess it was like 1773 01:43:14.439 --> 01:43:17.319 a glow plug or some kind of plug inside of it. 1774 01:43:17.720 --> 01:43:20.239 I think, I don't know. You may know you try 1775 01:43:20.239 --> 01:43:21.279 about like the drop arm. 1776 01:43:21.359 --> 01:43:21.960 So you had a. 1777 01:43:21.960 --> 01:43:24.520 Jammer for the remote detonade, and then you had the 1778 01:43:24.600 --> 01:43:29.239 drop arm thing that I forget what it did, but 1779 01:43:29.239 --> 01:43:31.920 but essentially like you had this weird like hodgepodge of 1780 01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:34.720 vehicle with welded glass oliver. So people were like welding 1781 01:43:34.760 --> 01:43:37.600 and up armboring their own stuff because at the time, 1782 01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:42.439 I mean it was horrific, like deep buried mines where 1783 01:43:42.439 --> 01:43:46.800 they would flip flip Bradley fighting vehicles. I mean it 1784 01:43:46.840 --> 01:43:50.119 was you know, there's there's some lot of bad stories 1785 01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:53.279 and so from that time of just like you know, 1786 01:43:53.279 --> 01:43:57.920 they those vehicles would flip over and you'd watch soldiers 1787 01:43:58.039 --> 01:44:00.359 burned to death, like you would see them trying to 1788 01:44:00.359 --> 01:44:03.720 get their arms out of hatches and it'd be engulfed 1789 01:44:03.720 --> 01:44:08.000 in flames, and you know those really it messed me 1790 01:44:08.119 --> 01:44:13.560 up personally, and a lot of medics just never like 1791 01:44:13.840 --> 01:44:16.319 probably people, I shouldn't just put that to medics, but 1792 01:44:16.439 --> 01:44:19.279 I know some of our medics they didn't. They didn't 1793 01:44:19.279 --> 01:44:23.760 do well after that. And we had some that that 1794 01:44:23.760 --> 01:44:26.279 that during the surge took its toll on folks. I 1795 01:44:26.439 --> 01:44:28.239 certainly took its toll on me and I and I 1796 01:44:28.319 --> 01:44:32.439 think I changed as a person after that trip. We 1797 01:44:32.439 --> 01:44:36.079 can talk about that stuff a little later, but and 1798 01:44:36.119 --> 01:44:38.720 so yeah, so that was my job was to be 1799 01:44:38.760 --> 01:44:44.840 a medic. The medic who was with the with that unit, 1800 01:44:45.680 --> 01:44:50.199 his platoon Sardant got shot in the head putting up 1801 01:44:50.560 --> 01:44:52.840 they were doing their hes goes, putting their hescoes up 1802 01:44:52.840 --> 01:44:55.600 in the beginning. So the medic became the platoon sarden. 1803 01:44:56.439 --> 01:44:59.079 And so we had a little four detachment. He was 1804 01:44:59.479 --> 01:45:04.520 believe it or not, E five. And so I was like, 1805 01:45:04.640 --> 01:45:06.760 and so my team, we were all these sevens. I 1806 01:45:06.760 --> 01:45:09.760 was like, hey, man, just do your job. If there's 1807 01:45:09.840 --> 01:45:12.720 anything medical, just I'll take care of it. Don't worry 1808 01:45:12.760 --> 01:45:16.199 about it. So we set up a little hasty you know, 1809 01:45:16.359 --> 01:45:22.479 one litter in an ad in a ceiling container at 1810 01:45:22.479 --> 01:45:26.800 this little little police station, and that's where we lived. 1811 01:45:26.920 --> 01:45:32.319 For seven months, and it was injuries every day, and 1812 01:45:32.840 --> 01:45:35.760 it's really what kind of honed me into, like you know, 1813 01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:39.119 some of the device stuff that I'm doing today, it's 1814 01:45:39.159 --> 01:45:41.279 just some of these injuries from the EFPs. That was 1815 01:45:41.319 --> 01:45:44.800 when the FPS got started, and EFPs would go and 1816 01:45:44.840 --> 01:45:47.640 take people's legs off. They would, I mean, they would 1817 01:45:47.680 --> 01:45:54.439 just go right through guys torsos. I'll never forget. I 1818 01:45:54.439 --> 01:45:57.000 had one go through basically. I don't know how this 1819 01:45:57.399 --> 01:46:00.000 ended up happening, but a piece of it went through 1820 01:46:00.399 --> 01:46:04.680 under his plate, under his skin but not through his thoraxe, 1821 01:46:04.720 --> 01:46:08.399 but basically a big hole in one shoulder and a 1822 01:46:08.439 --> 01:46:11.399 big hole out the other. And just I can remember 1823 01:46:11.479 --> 01:46:13.880 trying to put pressure. At the time, they had quick 1824 01:46:13.880 --> 01:46:16.960 clot sponges. Yeah, yeah, there were these. Man. I had 1825 01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:19.399 these sponges and I kept them like in all of 1826 01:46:19.560 --> 01:46:24.239 I must have stuffed those sponges in somebody every day. 1827 01:46:25.119 --> 01:46:29.359 So all my pockets because you're just walking around and 1828 01:46:29.399 --> 01:46:31.199 you're on his little police station. So it's not like 1829 01:46:31.239 --> 01:46:33.359 you're wearing full kid all the time. You know, sometimes 1830 01:46:33.399 --> 01:46:38.359 you're just wearing your uniform, maybe your vest. But my 1831 01:46:38.439 --> 01:46:42.760 pockets were never not full because this police station also 1832 01:46:42.800 --> 01:46:45.760 had a radio tower. So you're in a flat land 1833 01:46:46.760 --> 01:46:50.039 with a radio tower in a city that you can 1834 01:46:50.079 --> 01:46:53.000 see this tower from anywhere in the city. So now 1835 01:46:53.079 --> 01:46:56.199 you have an asthmth Now what do you need distance? 1836 01:46:57.359 --> 01:47:00.680 So it was like just I mean, you probably remember 1837 01:47:00.720 --> 01:47:03.199 that time. It was just mortar city all day, so 1838 01:47:03.239 --> 01:47:06.960 you really you're not fighting, you're just taking casualties and 1839 01:47:07.000 --> 01:47:10.560 getting blown up. So it's really a psychological It's probably 1840 01:47:10.560 --> 01:47:12.920 what they're experiencing. I could guess with some of the 1841 01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:15.880 drone stuff. Now that's what I that's what I equated 1842 01:47:15.920 --> 01:47:19.479 to in my mind. I'm like, that sucked, and you're 1843 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:23.600 in constant fear because you're not gonna know when you die, 1844 01:47:24.399 --> 01:47:28.159 You're just gonna blow up or maybe get mangled, and 1845 01:47:28.279 --> 01:47:30.159 you know, it's just like this stuff's coming in and. 1846 01:47:30.079 --> 01:47:36.479 So it's very it's very frustrating to hear this because 1847 01:47:37.159 --> 01:47:40.039 you know they also did this in Afghanistan where they 1848 01:47:40.039 --> 01:47:44.960 would put a small number of soldiers out at some 1849 01:47:45.840 --> 01:47:50.479 cop in the middle of nowhere with no support and 1850 01:47:51.439 --> 01:47:58.920 basically allow you know, the Taliban to just come in 1851 01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:01.159 and you know, they'd put them in low ground, they 1852 01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:04.000 wouldn't give them a SoLIT tact position, you know, and 1853 01:48:04.000 --> 01:48:06.439 and they would just allow the Taliban to kick the 1854 01:48:06.479 --> 01:48:08.880 shit out of these guys day after day after day. 1855 01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:15.159 And in my I would love to know who decided 1856 01:48:15.199 --> 01:48:17.600 that US soldiers needed to be at this police station. 1857 01:48:18.159 --> 01:48:21.079 What was the point of putting them there, you know, 1858 01:48:21.359 --> 01:48:24.239 because there's no area of denial going on, right, you're 1859 01:48:24.239 --> 01:48:27.319 not you're not you're not creating a court on you're 1860 01:48:27.359 --> 01:48:31.239 not all. They're just sticking these guys in a meat 1861 01:48:31.279 --> 01:48:37.479 grinder with no ability to defend themselves, and then putting 1862 01:48:37.520 --> 01:48:40.359 additional restrictions on them like the five mile an hour. 1863 01:48:40.239 --> 01:48:41.279 Speed you know, speed limit. 1864 01:48:41.560 --> 01:48:45.119 Like these these are people, honestly that need to be 1865 01:48:45.199 --> 01:48:48.520 called the carpet and answer for their sins. 1866 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:52.079 Yeah, so it's funny you mentioned that. So it was 1867 01:48:52.159 --> 01:48:55.680 if you remember where we were again, not that it 1868 01:48:55.680 --> 01:48:58.720 doesn't matter the politic aspect of it, but I think 1869 01:48:59.119 --> 01:49:03.399 the nation wanted us out, and so we had specifically 1870 01:49:03.439 --> 01:49:08.079 an embedded reporter with my four man team and I 1871 01:49:09.079 --> 01:49:13.960 so in Solder City. So why we were doing this 1872 01:49:14.039 --> 01:49:17.560 so in this like two streets in Jamira, I think 1873 01:49:17.560 --> 01:49:21.039 it was called that we could drive to. We were 1874 01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:23.439 doing these small projects so we were putting in lights, 1875 01:49:23.720 --> 01:49:26.119 so like I think they were like solar lights or 1876 01:49:26.119 --> 01:49:29.039 something like that, because I forget what it was lights. 1877 01:49:29.560 --> 01:49:32.960 You're doing your basic like hand out stuff and schools 1878 01:49:33.000 --> 01:49:37.479 like trying to like refurbish and rehab these schools. 1879 01:49:37.880 --> 01:49:38.880 So that was our job. 1880 01:49:39.079 --> 01:49:46.199 Like so it was in I don't want to get 1881 01:49:46.239 --> 01:49:50.800 off the story, but I think, and here's one of 1882 01:49:50.800 --> 01:49:56.680 my frustrating parts about being a Civil Affair soldiers. Success 1883 01:49:56.920 --> 01:50:00.359 was measured on how much money in projects you spent 1884 01:50:01.000 --> 01:50:05.760 now your effect and so you think about you know, 1885 01:50:05.880 --> 01:50:08.199 and that's one of the things that you know, like 1886 01:50:09.319 --> 01:50:13.359 the IO side of it, effects based operations. But if 1887 01:50:13.399 --> 01:50:16.319 you read every award, it was like established so many 1888 01:50:16.359 --> 01:50:19.399 of this and spent X amount of dollars, and so 1889 01:50:19.640 --> 01:50:23.119 it was like you did these I don't want to 1890 01:50:23.159 --> 01:50:27.119 say frivolous projects and risk people's lives to essentially like 1891 01:50:27.479 --> 01:50:30.399 do some sort of rebuilding that I don't really think 1892 01:50:30.439 --> 01:50:36.840 it rebuilt anything, and so it you know, yeah, it was. 1893 01:50:37.119 --> 01:50:39.840 It was really frustrating, but that's essentially what we did 1894 01:50:40.960 --> 01:50:44.239 was a lot of that. It's just driving around, get 1895 01:50:44.239 --> 01:50:48.359 blown up, take fire, treat people. I think half the 1896 01:50:48.479 --> 01:50:51.800 people in that small element. You know, they all ended 1897 01:50:51.880 --> 01:50:56.039 up with purple hearts. They were just it was just 1898 01:50:56.079 --> 01:50:59.960 like you were going to catch something, right, the likelihood 1899 01:51:00.159 --> 01:51:03.119 of a piece of frag not flying at you and 1900 01:51:03.159 --> 01:51:07.079 getting it was just everything was just riddled. I still 1901 01:51:07.079 --> 01:51:09.720 got a whole lot of pictures. It's just everything was riddled. 1902 01:51:09.840 --> 01:51:15.920 Every build, every everything was just holds everywhere. And so 1903 01:51:15.920 --> 01:51:18.039 so yeah, that was the surgeon. That was a pretty 1904 01:51:18.079 --> 01:51:23.560 unpleasant time. So yeah, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. 1905 01:51:24.840 --> 01:51:28.560 Yes, Sutter City, and you know, and Mada like he was, 1906 01:51:28.680 --> 01:51:31.119 he was a piece of work, you know, because he 1907 01:51:31.159 --> 01:51:32.960 would get his jashm Nahdi. 1908 01:51:33.880 --> 01:51:35.319 You know, they had. 1909 01:51:36.279 --> 01:51:42.319 Openly hostile you know, openly aggressive US elements would go 1910 01:51:42.359 --> 01:51:47.600 in and just start kicking ass, you know, doing hits, 1911 01:51:47.680 --> 01:51:48.479 you know whatever. 1912 01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:51.720 And then at the point in time. 1913 01:51:51.520 --> 01:51:54.960 That we you know that that the US would gain 1914 01:51:55.079 --> 01:51:57.960 some ground in there, you know, he would pull out 1915 01:51:58.000 --> 01:51:59.800 the I'm a cleric, I'm a holy man. 1916 01:52:00.439 --> 01:52:01.720 Let's you know, let's work. 1917 01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:04.800 There like and and and this would be the story 1918 01:52:04.840 --> 01:52:07.119 that would play is you know he's a holy man, 1919 01:52:07.159 --> 01:52:10.159 he's you know, he's a mulla and and and so 1920 01:52:10.840 --> 01:52:14.640 US forces would have to stop directing hits on jayshau 1921 01:52:14.760 --> 01:52:18.880 Mahdi while they rebuilt, regrouped, re armed, and then they 1922 01:52:18.880 --> 01:52:19.840 would go at it again. 1923 01:52:19.960 --> 01:52:22.760 And we played this game with him forever. 1924 01:52:24.199 --> 01:52:29.119 And and to throw to throw an ounce an ounce 1925 01:52:29.199 --> 01:52:33.560 of US money into a solder city, it is, it's ridiculous. 1926 01:52:33.720 --> 01:52:37.760 Yeah, And I think more importantly it's the blood that 1927 01:52:37.960 --> 01:52:43.960 was yeah put there because you know, like every soft 1928 01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:47.279 is sexy, right, Yeah, but really that's where I gained. 1929 01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:51.039 I learned important lesson there that no one's service is 1930 01:52:51.079 --> 01:52:54.920 greater than anybody else. Absolutely, And when you look at 1931 01:52:54.920 --> 01:52:58.239 these kids, I can these kids at that point in 1932 01:52:58.279 --> 01:53:01.600 time we're doing, some of them were getting extended to 1933 01:53:01.720 --> 01:53:06.239 eighteen months. Yeah, so I was blessed to experience that 1934 01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:12.680 only for seven or eight months, yeah, eighteen months to 1935 01:53:12.760 --> 01:53:15.159 deal with that, and the casualties that they were taking 1936 01:53:15.199 --> 01:53:20.319 were half of their squads were no longer alive at 1937 01:53:20.479 --> 01:53:24.079 you know, twenty years old, eighteen years old, nineteen years old. 1938 01:53:25.920 --> 01:53:30.159 You know, that's that's the travesty of it, I think, 1939 01:53:30.319 --> 01:53:32.319 And you know we've talked about that on this show 1940 01:53:32.359 --> 01:53:32.960 before too. 1941 01:53:35.960 --> 01:53:39.840 People love the soft mission, people love the direct action. 1942 01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:44.239 The direction action is great for commanders, it briefs, well, 1943 01:53:44.560 --> 01:53:47.520 how many bodies did you stack? Look, we're winning the war, 1944 01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:52.600 you know, we just killed twenty insurgents. But both in 1945 01:53:52.640 --> 01:53:57.760 Iraq and in Afghanistan, you know, these conventional guys they 1946 01:53:57.760 --> 01:54:01.479 don't get any credit at all for what they went through. 1947 01:54:01.680 --> 01:54:05.840 And they the software was very gucci. It was. It 1948 01:54:05.880 --> 01:54:08.439 was dangerous. I'm not I'm not taking anything away from it. 1949 01:54:08.439 --> 01:54:09.279 It was dangerous. 1950 01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:12.119 They you know, they had the lion's share of kills 1951 01:54:12.159 --> 01:54:15.000 and whatnot, but they also got to plant. They had 1952 01:54:15.000 --> 01:54:18.079 the assets, they had, you know, the resources. They weren't 1953 01:54:18.119 --> 01:54:22.640 out there doing you know, recon by you know enemy fire. 1954 01:54:24.319 --> 01:54:25.039 But both in. 1955 01:54:24.960 --> 01:54:28.640 Afghanistan and Rock, these conventional forces were stuck out there, 1956 01:54:29.319 --> 01:54:32.000 some of them mixing it up every single day. 1957 01:54:32.760 --> 01:54:32.920 You know. 1958 01:54:32.960 --> 01:54:36.600 They weren't flying back, you know, to Bogram, they weren't 1959 01:54:36.760 --> 01:54:40.039 you know, going back to Glalabad you know, to play Halo, 1960 01:54:40.159 --> 01:54:43.560 to unwind and prepping for the next stop. They were 1961 01:54:43.600 --> 01:54:48.239 in it every single day, and for long periods of time, 1962 01:54:48.279 --> 01:54:53.000 like you say, like twelve to eighteen months, and they get. 1963 01:54:53.079 --> 01:54:54.000 No credit at all. 1964 01:54:54.479 --> 01:54:59.079 Everybody is so focused on soft because that's what they 1965 01:54:59.119 --> 01:55:04.199 make movies about. That's you know, and yeah, these these 1966 01:55:04.600 --> 01:55:09.119 these kids, these guys, these these women, they deserve a 1967 01:55:09.159 --> 01:55:10.560 hell of a lot more credit than I get. 1968 01:55:10.800 --> 01:55:15.680 Yeah, yeah, they do. Hopefully, hopefully I'll remember at the end. Well, 1969 01:55:15.760 --> 01:55:18.840 once I got really senior, I spoke up at a 1970 01:55:18.880 --> 01:55:25.319 conference that well, no tell us so so yeah, so 1971 01:55:25.319 --> 01:55:27.279 I'll fast forward really quick and then we'll go back. 1972 01:55:27.319 --> 01:55:30.520 So it was the right towards the end of my career. 1973 01:55:30.640 --> 01:55:35.199 You know, I was a brigade CSM, but previous a 1974 01:55:35.199 --> 01:55:38.239 lot of soft experience, you know, once I had, you know, 1975 01:55:38.279 --> 01:55:44.560 at twenty three years in service, and as much as 1976 01:55:44.600 --> 01:55:48.920 I a physician, stood up from one of the elements 1977 01:55:48.960 --> 01:55:53.199 within Jaysack and basically it was about prolonged field care, 1978 01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:58.039 and he basically was saying how prolonged field care was 1979 01:55:58.079 --> 01:56:01.520 a soft problem and conventional piece bull needed not worry 1980 01:56:01.560 --> 01:56:06.279 about it. And so I stood up because of the 1981 01:56:06.319 --> 01:56:09.159 time I had already worked to work with some prolonged 1982 01:56:09.199 --> 01:56:11.520 field care stuff for the conventional Army. It was a 1983 01:56:11.560 --> 01:56:15.680 tasking given to me based on my background and some 1984 01:56:15.720 --> 01:56:17.680 stuff that was going on with Korea and Fight Tonight 1985 01:56:17.720 --> 01:56:19.640 where we thought we were going to fight in Korea, 1986 01:56:20.119 --> 01:56:24.439 and I was in that area. And so I stood 1987 01:56:24.520 --> 01:56:27.880 up and I said, so, what you're telling me, sir, 1988 01:56:28.079 --> 01:56:31.720 is that so I have two sons that are serving, 1989 01:56:31.760 --> 01:56:36.319 one in an SMU and one son and four two 1990 01:56:36.399 --> 01:56:41.920 five and airborne infantry in Alaska. So the training that 1991 01:56:41.960 --> 01:56:49.439 their medics get and their life their survivability statistics should 1992 01:56:49.439 --> 01:56:52.439 be directly relational to their unit of assignment and not 1993 01:56:52.520 --> 01:56:56.359 their injury pattern. So we should invest only in soft 1994 01:56:56.399 --> 01:57:00.920 training and teaching and preparedness for prolonged care. And so 1995 01:57:01.000 --> 01:57:03.319 it really just it struck a chord with me, and 1996 01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:06.279 I wanted to just rake him over the coals and 1997 01:57:06.600 --> 01:57:13.319 and I and I think it even actually made them rethink. 1998 01:57:13.840 --> 01:57:16.359 Maybe not the group, and maybe I, you know, I 1999 01:57:16.399 --> 01:57:20.159 didn't have a bigger play in that, but but it 2000 01:57:20.520 --> 01:57:24.399 definitely it definitely made me reflect upon because I was 2001 01:57:24.439 --> 01:57:27.279 back now working for the conventional military, of the importance 2002 01:57:27.319 --> 01:57:30.399 of Hey, those are the dudes staying out there for 2003 01:57:30.439 --> 01:57:33.720 eighteen months. They don't they get the least training, they're 2004 01:57:33.880 --> 01:57:37.239 least equipped, and they have the least assets. But but 2005 01:57:37.239 --> 01:57:39.680 but now you are. But now you don't want to 2006 01:57:39.720 --> 01:57:42.079 focus on them and dedicate some training to you to 2007 01:57:42.079 --> 01:57:44.439 say it's it's it's too sexy of training for them 2008 01:57:44.479 --> 01:57:47.640 to get it. I'm like, and and so they don't 2009 01:57:47.640 --> 01:57:51.600 need to know how to ensure survivability of those forces 2010 01:57:52.319 --> 01:57:56.159 should they encounter you know, prolonged field care and so 2011 01:57:57.279 --> 01:58:01.319 but yeah, so yeah, yeah, so it's a huge soapbox 2012 01:58:01.319 --> 01:58:03.399 for me. It's like, hey, you know, invest in all 2013 01:58:03.399 --> 01:58:06.760 these guys because that's that's our charge, take care of 2014 01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:10.239 American sons and daughters. And so as a leader, you 2015 01:58:10.319 --> 01:58:14.000 need to ensure that that that's your responsibility as a commander, 2016 01:58:14.119 --> 01:58:19.880 like the man training equipping of your soldiers. So but yeah, 2017 01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:23.359 so rewind back to the surge. So surge is done, 2018 01:58:23.600 --> 01:58:27.600 and so you know, the majority of us, you know, 2019 01:58:27.720 --> 01:58:33.880 made it back. And and at the time, that's when 2020 01:58:33.920 --> 01:58:41.840 I've essentially got an invitation to do something else. And 2021 01:58:41.960 --> 01:58:45.880 I was seeking things to do because that's the time 2022 01:58:45.920 --> 01:58:49.439 that I had mentioned that Civil Affairs was converting. It 2023 01:58:49.560 --> 01:58:52.960 was no longer going to be an organization where people 2024 01:58:53.039 --> 01:58:57.880 could just go to regardless of their or because of 2025 01:58:57.960 --> 01:59:00.560 they had an MOS that fit the team dying, which 2026 01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:03.239 is basically kind of modeled kind of like the ODA, 2027 01:59:03.560 --> 01:59:08.600 like I said, the Engineer, Weapons, medic team leader. Now 2028 01:59:08.640 --> 01:59:10.439 you had to be a MOS and they they basically 2029 01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:13.560 gave us all the opportunity change your a MOS. 2030 01:59:13.000 --> 01:59:16.520 Or find another job. 2031 01:59:17.079 --> 01:59:21.319 And so at the time, I actually enjoyed the tactical 2032 01:59:21.359 --> 01:59:24.479 medical stuff and I wanted to go to the unit 2033 01:59:24.520 --> 01:59:29.319 at BRAG That's that's where I wanted to go. But 2034 01:59:29.439 --> 01:59:33.720 they had periods of time where their senior I think 2035 01:59:33.760 --> 01:59:39.640 the senior medical folks there they either wanted eighteen series 2036 01:59:39.680 --> 01:59:43.840 guys and they wouldn't take the SOCCAM guys. And so 2037 01:59:44.000 --> 01:59:46.640 it really was who's in charge of the med the 2038 01:59:46.680 --> 01:59:50.439 med troop or squadron or whatever it is. And so 2039 01:59:50.600 --> 01:59:52.439 at the time they were like, hey, we're not taking 2040 01:59:52.720 --> 01:59:56.079 you know, we're only taking eighteens and so okay. And 2041 01:59:56.159 --> 01:59:59.560 so a friend of mine had went to another organization 2042 02:00:01.439 --> 02:00:05.560 a special access program i'll just call it that in 2043 02:00:05.600 --> 02:00:08.720 the in the National Capital region, just keep it kind 2044 02:00:08.760 --> 02:00:14.640 of area generic, and had said, hey, man, I've talked 2045 02:00:14.680 --> 02:00:17.000 to them about you. You know, I think that you've 2046 02:00:17.000 --> 02:00:20.159 got the experience and you would you would do well 2047 02:00:20.159 --> 02:00:22.800 here and would you like to apply and and so, 2048 02:00:22.960 --> 02:00:25.319 and I was seeking things out and I said, yeah. 2049 02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:28.720 Had you had you been aware of that program? 2050 02:00:29.520 --> 02:00:34.279 I known about the people because there was onesies and 2051 02:00:34.319 --> 02:00:41.439 twosies that worked with the task force, but you didn't 2052 02:00:41.479 --> 02:00:46.079 know kind of what these weird animals were, right, you know, 2053 02:00:46.119 --> 02:00:47.920 they're kind of like these strange birds. Right, they're like, 2054 02:00:47.960 --> 02:00:52.199 what's that strange bird? Oh, it's something really cool and 2055 02:00:52.279 --> 02:00:56.399 so uh but no, I mean honestly, like because of 2056 02:00:56.640 --> 02:00:59.319 my by that time, I developed a strong sense of 2057 02:00:59.319 --> 02:01:01.880 passion for medic to being a medic and that and 2058 02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:04.800 it's that was actually a really important thing about that 2059 02:01:05.000 --> 02:01:09.439 organization is they didn't want people who wanted to be 2060 02:01:09.560 --> 02:01:13.199 something else. If you're going there to be a medic, 2061 02:01:13.439 --> 02:01:14.760 that's what you're going to be, and you're going to 2062 02:01:14.800 --> 02:01:22.840 be the best medic and so so so basically you 2063 02:01:22.920 --> 02:01:25.800 either you get asked to go there or someone knows 2064 02:01:25.800 --> 02:01:31.199 and recommend you. That's the process. And so funny story 2065 02:01:31.359 --> 02:01:35.920 is I actually filled out another packet and I thought 2066 02:01:36.359 --> 02:01:40.479 that I was getting packets in and you don't really 2067 02:01:40.560 --> 02:01:44.600 know where these packets are going because I'll tell the 2068 02:01:44.600 --> 02:01:46.760 dirty secret. The dirty secret is there's a lot of 2069 02:01:46.760 --> 02:01:50.239 places you can go. It isn't just one place. So 2070 02:01:50.279 --> 02:01:52.760 there's a lot of places up in the National Capital Region. 2071 02:01:53.039 --> 02:01:53.720 So I had. 2072 02:01:53.560 --> 02:01:59.159 Fully applied and been like hired. And then I talked 2073 02:01:59.159 --> 02:02:01.239 to my buddy who was at the place that I 2074 02:02:01.279 --> 02:02:04.600 wanted to go, and he's like, because I think I 2075 02:02:04.600 --> 02:02:07.960 had applied to I'd filled out the packets for both, 2076 02:02:08.079 --> 02:02:12.319 but again, the names on the packets, they're just like names, 2077 02:02:12.479 --> 02:02:17.560 they don't really correlate. And he's like, dude, you didn't 2078 02:02:17.600 --> 02:02:20.640 go through the So I called the other guy because 2079 02:02:20.680 --> 02:02:23.760 you get a point of contact and I was like, yeah, 2080 02:02:23.920 --> 02:02:27.039 I don't want the job. I'm actually trying to go 2081 02:02:27.119 --> 02:02:31.159 somewhere else. And he's like, okay, I understand. And then 2082 02:02:31.319 --> 02:02:35.600 so long story short is I So I filled out 2083 02:02:35.640 --> 02:02:39.960 the packet I got offered to do it, go up 2084 02:02:40.000 --> 02:02:43.680 and interview, and I went through my interview process. And 2085 02:02:43.720 --> 02:02:50.520 I'll talk a little bit about that later. Because my 2086 02:02:51.279 --> 02:02:54.000 CSM at the time, which I did know, was also 2087 02:02:54.159 --> 02:02:59.039 a former unit member, but he would he never told 2088 02:02:59.079 --> 02:03:02.840 me that, and he's like, I need you to do 2089 02:03:02.880 --> 02:03:06.479 one more deployment before you go. So I had went basically, 2090 02:03:06.520 --> 02:03:09.600 I'd got you know, if you get the job or not. 2091 02:03:09.720 --> 02:03:11.880 But I told him, hey, I committed to another deployment 2092 02:03:12.479 --> 02:03:15.720 and so so after that I had to do one 2093 02:03:15.720 --> 02:03:19.359 more deployment, and that was to I had now switched 2094 02:03:19.399 --> 02:03:23.239 companies to the ninety or the ninety seventh had split 2095 02:03:23.359 --> 02:03:26.199 and also became the ninety sixth, and seventh had split 2096 02:03:26.239 --> 02:03:29.199 and become the ninety eight. Ninety eighth was Latin America. 2097 02:03:29.840 --> 02:03:33.399 So then I got a tasking to go down and 2098 02:03:33.600 --> 02:03:39.199 do the be part of finding the hostages in Colombia, 2099 02:03:40.600 --> 02:03:46.279 so ramping all up and going through language immersion, and 2100 02:03:46.359 --> 02:03:51.600 so got back from Iraq, immediately started language immersion after 2101 02:03:51.680 --> 02:03:57.840 I had went through you know, my screening process, and 2102 02:03:58.000 --> 02:03:59.600 then headed off to Columbia. 2103 02:03:59.840 --> 02:04:03.920 And what was that uh, what was the was the 2104 02:04:04.000 --> 02:04:05.880 search still ongoing at that point in time? 2105 02:04:06.199 --> 02:04:09.079 It was so we actually got them back. I was 2106 02:04:09.119 --> 02:04:13.079 actually at the location the day before. 2107 02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:14.920 Wow. Uh yeah. 2108 02:04:15.000 --> 02:04:18.000 So yeah, so when we first got there, So we 2109 02:04:18.039 --> 02:04:21.039 got there. I think they got them back in June 2110 02:04:21.119 --> 02:04:26.159 or July of eight if I remember right. And so 2111 02:04:26.359 --> 02:04:30.880 Operation Jock if I think it's called pronounce you Jock JQ, 2112 02:04:31.680 --> 02:04:35.000 whatever it is, I don't recall. So essentially, yeah, that 2113 02:04:35.079 --> 02:04:38.439 was our job was attached to Embassy Mission seventh Group, 2114 02:04:38.520 --> 02:04:40.279 So it was working with seventh Group at the time 2115 02:04:40.439 --> 02:04:44.600 out of the embassy there and so we were flying 2116 02:04:44.600 --> 02:04:47.680 around with it, so operational willing spirit, and so it 2117 02:04:47.920 --> 02:04:52.039 was about going and finding the were these hostages this 2118 02:04:52.880 --> 02:04:55.800 plane that had crashed in the middle of the jungle 2119 02:04:55.920 --> 02:04:58.720 five years earlier, So these guys have been hostages now 2120 02:04:58.760 --> 02:05:03.680 for five years, getting moved all over you know, triple 2121 02:05:03.720 --> 02:05:10.680 canopy jungle, and so I can go right into it 2122 02:05:10.760 --> 02:05:13.720 or yeah yeah, so yeah, So you know, I finished 2123 02:05:13.800 --> 02:05:19.880 language emerging immersion, you know, just came off Iraq and uh, honestly, 2124 02:05:21.720 --> 02:05:23.640 you know, like I said, a Rack kind of changed 2125 02:05:23.680 --> 02:05:26.479 me I think as a as a person, and so 2126 02:05:26.920 --> 02:05:32.720 you know, you know, I struggled a little bit on 2127 02:05:32.760 --> 02:05:36.439 this on this deployment, but you know, I just that's 2128 02:05:36.439 --> 02:05:39.800 when I first started like angry outbursts and things like that. 2129 02:05:40.039 --> 02:05:44.359 Just somebody, if you you know, you're, you're, you used 2130 02:05:44.359 --> 02:05:45.560 to have an escalation of. 2131 02:05:45.520 --> 02:05:46.119 One to ten. 2132 02:05:46.600 --> 02:05:49.880 Now it's just like yeah, it's just ten, yeah, you know. 2133 02:05:50.479 --> 02:05:53.640 And so so yeah, we get there and without focusing 2134 02:05:53.680 --> 02:05:57.960 too much on that, we instantly start going out and 2135 02:05:58.720 --> 02:06:03.760 basically you're doing these civil affairs type activities. So it 2136 02:06:03.840 --> 02:06:06.000 is a more of a the traditional I guess I 2137 02:06:06.079 --> 02:06:10.239 think doctrinal mission of going out and working with their 2138 02:06:10.279 --> 02:06:15.800 government and supporting them and then using resources, you know, 2139 02:06:16.760 --> 02:06:19.680 the monies that are afforded to go out and do 2140 02:06:21.479 --> 02:06:26.279 larger scale medcaps, not like essentially like tailgatements in Afghanistan. 2141 02:06:26.680 --> 02:06:29.319 These are where we actually bring in ten host nation 2142 02:06:29.520 --> 02:06:33.760 doctors and dentists. Wow, load these airplanes up with these 2143 02:06:33.840 --> 02:06:37.840 huge suites of medical equipment and you fly out to 2144 02:06:37.920 --> 02:06:42.000 these remote places, you know, all over the jungle, and 2145 02:06:42.199 --> 02:06:45.840 you set up and you start seeing people, and you know, 2146 02:06:46.079 --> 02:06:49.199 and then other folks can kind of come in and 2147 02:06:49.239 --> 02:06:51.760 ask questions and do what they do right. So it's 2148 02:06:51.840 --> 02:06:53.760 kind of a I don't know if you want to 2149 02:06:53.760 --> 02:06:56.920 say cover for status action kind of thing. Is you know, 2150 02:06:56.960 --> 02:06:59.279 you're just you're facilitating Maybe that's a better way and 2151 02:06:59.399 --> 02:07:01.720 your facility taking people to do there and I mean 2152 02:07:01.760 --> 02:07:02.239 done right. 2153 02:07:02.279 --> 02:07:06.119 I feel like medcaps and PRTs and well the PRTs, 2154 02:07:06.279 --> 02:07:10.279 but that medcaps are are are almost always if they're 2155 02:07:10.319 --> 02:07:13.640 done right, Like, there's always an element of that intelligence 2156 02:07:13.680 --> 02:07:18.640 gathering piece to the medcap right that there should there's 2157 02:07:18.680 --> 02:07:23.439 always somebody there, and especially on the female side, because 2158 02:07:23.439 --> 02:07:26.600 a lot of times, like a lot of times, the 2159 02:07:26.680 --> 02:07:29.359 women will talk about the things that are pissing them off, 2160 02:07:29.560 --> 02:07:32.279 and things that are pissing them off are generally the 2161 02:07:32.319 --> 02:07:33.760 things that guys don't want to talk about. 2162 02:07:34.399 --> 02:07:36.600 Yeah or yeah, well you know that was a huge 2163 02:07:37.239 --> 02:07:41.119 You're exactly right, and that's probably more so in Afghanistan 2164 02:07:41.239 --> 02:07:48.600 than even Iraq. Afghanistan, I've never talked to a woman, Yeah, never, Yeah, Iraq, yes, 2165 02:07:48.840 --> 02:07:52.479 because they have like the ones that don't kind of 2166 02:07:52.880 --> 02:07:56.680 wear the full burka type a lot of traditional they 2167 02:07:56.680 --> 02:07:59.960 haven't much more Western Western exactly, they're kind of more westernized. 2168 02:08:00.079 --> 02:08:03.880 It's more socially acceptable for them to kind of associate 2169 02:08:03.920 --> 02:08:07.640 with with males, and so could work with females there 2170 02:08:08.479 --> 02:08:12.159 and then in Latin America was no real deal. But yeah, 2171 02:08:12.159 --> 02:08:16.399 one hundred percent, I can the utility in Afghanistan. I 2172 02:08:16.439 --> 02:08:19.680 didn't get to experience those the I think the female 2173 02:08:19.720 --> 02:08:25.760 engagement teams whatever they're called. But and then we didn't 2174 02:08:25.960 --> 02:08:28.920 get females in Cea. My very last trip, we had 2175 02:08:28.920 --> 02:08:31.880 our I think once some of our first females. 2176 02:08:32.319 --> 02:08:34.720 And is that because it was still considered special ops 2177 02:08:34.720 --> 02:08:35.119 and so. 2178 02:08:35.920 --> 02:08:37.600 I think it was the mos Is, So if you 2179 02:08:37.680 --> 02:08:42.159 looked at it, no female medics that went through. 2180 02:08:42.159 --> 02:08:44.960 I actually had the first female medic in my SOCCAM class. 2181 02:08:45.000 --> 02:08:49.000 She was Air Force first female go through SoC them. 2182 02:08:49.039 --> 02:08:52.479 I think that's a whole nother crazy story. 2183 02:08:53.760 --> 02:08:54.640 That's that was. 2184 02:08:54.680 --> 02:08:59.000 Integration gone awry. That's a funny story. So I should 2185 02:08:59.079 --> 02:09:03.880 tell that, but we're too far past it. But at 2186 02:09:03.880 --> 02:09:09.600 any rate, so yeah, so uh, we're kind of lost 2187 02:09:09.640 --> 02:09:09.920 my track. 2188 02:09:10.359 --> 02:09:13.960 So you're in Latin America. You're doing the medcaps, large medcaps. 2189 02:09:14.079 --> 02:09:18.239 Yes, so the big, big large medcaps. And so we're 2190 02:09:18.279 --> 02:09:24.000 really just asking questions, like any fark around, has anybody 2191 02:09:24.079 --> 02:09:26.800 heard rumor of them moving? Because that's what they would do. 2192 02:09:26.840 --> 02:09:29.159 They would move these They moved these guys for five 2193 02:09:29.239 --> 02:09:31.720 years everywhere, and so. 2194 02:09:34.199 --> 02:09:36.680 We I think it. 2195 02:09:36.840 --> 02:09:40.159 I think it was San Jose A Guavier, the Guavier 2196 02:09:40.279 --> 02:09:44.800 River area. We were there. Now we didn't know the 2197 02:09:44.840 --> 02:09:48.159 OP was gonna happen, but we were there the day 2198 02:09:48.600 --> 02:09:51.520 before setting it up and doing planning to do it. 2199 02:09:52.159 --> 02:09:55.199 And so we met with the local like government. We 2200 02:09:55.279 --> 02:09:57.079 told them, here's what we'd like to do. We would 2201 02:09:57.159 --> 02:10:01.239 like to do do health screenings because a lot of 2202 02:10:01.279 --> 02:10:03.359 the stuff that we were doing because like, well why 2203 02:10:03.359 --> 02:10:05.680 do you want to do that? Well, you know, you 2204 02:10:05.720 --> 02:10:08.159 didn't just come out and say that a lot of 2205 02:10:08.199 --> 02:10:11.520 it was because of the the State Department stuff that 2206 02:10:11.560 --> 02:10:15.119 they were doing with the spraying right for the I 2207 02:10:15.159 --> 02:10:20.560 guess the eradication of the crops and or the. 2208 02:10:19.199 --> 02:10:23.039 Mosquitoes and pies. Oh oh, the drug counter drug drug stuff. 2209 02:10:23.319 --> 02:10:26.199 It's all counter drug through the con I believe it's 2210 02:10:26.199 --> 02:10:28.039 called is their organization. 2211 02:10:28.119 --> 02:10:30.720 Uh, through their counter narcotical folks. 2212 02:10:30.920 --> 02:10:33.960 So so that's a whole nother different mission that we 2213 02:10:34.039 --> 02:10:37.560 also did. Once we got the hostages back, we continue 2214 02:10:37.600 --> 02:10:41.720 doing that. So yeah, so we were there planning it 2215 02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:43.439 to set it up and you say, hey, we want 2216 02:10:43.439 --> 02:10:44.960 to do this, we want to see you know, we 2217 02:10:45.279 --> 02:10:49.880 you know, see the folks, make sure everything's okay, and 2218 02:10:51.039 --> 02:10:54.359 planning it, and then I think our team leader got 2219 02:10:54.359 --> 02:10:55.920 a call. It's like, hey, you guys need to get 2220 02:10:55.960 --> 02:10:59.119 out of there now, you need to leave. We're like, 2221 02:10:59.720 --> 02:11:03.239 we're we're in the middle according this no, and they're like, no, 2222 02:11:03.319 --> 02:11:08.439 you don't understand, you need to go. So we're like, okay, 2223 02:11:08.560 --> 02:11:11.560 all right, So we you know, we packed up. We 2224 02:11:12.800 --> 02:11:16.199 uh we told them we had finished everything because at 2225 02:11:16.439 --> 02:11:18.119 that time we didn't have to hitch a ride. We 2226 02:11:18.199 --> 02:11:21.439 basically would go to the counter and narcotics police. They 2227 02:11:21.479 --> 02:11:24.920 would get one of their there what are they am? 2228 02:11:24.920 --> 02:11:29.760 I seventeen their their helicopters and fly you out. So 2229 02:11:29.800 --> 02:11:32.279 they facilitated our travel and we said, hey, you know, 2230 02:11:32.319 --> 02:11:34.680 we're finished, we need to go back, and they took 2231 02:11:34.760 --> 02:11:39.199 us back back to Bogotah to the to the embassy. 2232 02:11:39.800 --> 02:11:44.319 And then the next day, it was either the day 2233 02:11:44.439 --> 02:11:47.640 or the day after then that operation took place. And 2234 02:11:47.640 --> 02:11:50.279 I believe that was one of the like the most successful. 2235 02:11:50.359 --> 02:11:54.800 Like you know, No shots fired got a lot of 2236 02:11:54.960 --> 02:12:01.439 controversy over them usings imposing as a Red Cross elements 2237 02:12:01.520 --> 02:12:07.720 that kind of violated I think some international law. But nonetheless, 2238 02:12:07.720 --> 02:12:10.720 no shots fired. They got the folks back, they were 2239 02:12:10.840 --> 02:12:12.319 able to be repatriated. 2240 02:12:12.520 --> 02:12:16.840 And then did you did you did you meet them? 2241 02:12:16.880 --> 02:12:17.880 Did you greet them at all? 2242 02:12:18.079 --> 02:12:18.159 Not? 2243 02:12:18.319 --> 02:12:21.159 They flew back, They facilitated their. 2244 02:12:23.119 --> 02:12:27.439 Their their movement was pretty much facilitated and kind of escorted. 2245 02:12:27.479 --> 02:12:30.079 And there wasn't a reason, like they didn't need to and. 2246 02:12:29.840 --> 02:12:32.720 And yeah I didn't like you screened them when they 2247 02:12:32.720 --> 02:12:33.039 came out? 2248 02:12:33.159 --> 02:12:39.159 No, no, nothing, nope, uh, no real direct contact. The 2249 02:12:39.520 --> 02:12:44.600 I think Cleveland was the the South, the SOX South 2250 02:12:44.680 --> 02:12:48.760 commander at the time he flew in, briefed everybody and 2251 02:12:48.840 --> 02:12:51.000 thanked everybody, you know, because this is they've been looking 2252 02:12:51.039 --> 02:12:53.319 for these guys for years, and so it was a 2253 02:12:53.359 --> 02:12:56.800 big deal. I think I still got the Fanville Observer 2254 02:12:56.920 --> 02:13:00.079 paper from that and and. 2255 02:13:01.359 --> 02:13:02.439 So yeah, so that was the bit. 2256 02:13:02.520 --> 02:13:04.760 But that was actually the very beginning or towards the 2257 02:13:04.920 --> 02:13:10.039 I think two months into our rotation. And so after that, 2258 02:13:10.119 --> 02:13:12.960 you know that didn't get to see them. They they 2259 02:13:13.000 --> 02:13:17.800 got they went back and we continued on mainly working 2260 02:13:18.399 --> 02:13:22.840 with the State Department stuff and just kind of just 2261 02:13:24.239 --> 02:13:26.520 you know, we would go out sit these things up 2262 02:13:26.560 --> 02:13:28.399 and they would have a State Department rep who would 2263 02:13:28.439 --> 02:13:30.800 kind of screen these folks and make sure the stuff 2264 02:13:30.800 --> 02:13:34.600 they're spraying all over this stuff isn't like causing cancer, 2265 02:13:35.000 --> 02:13:38.439 causing birth defects. I think it was really birth defects honestly, 2266 02:13:39.359 --> 02:13:44.439 that they were not causing health ailments with with the population. 2267 02:13:44.199 --> 02:13:46.079 Right right with from the saying, you know, it's it's 2268 02:13:46.079 --> 02:13:50.319 interesting because as I think about it, like ill, when 2269 02:13:50.359 --> 02:13:53.119 I think about medcaps, I've always thought about intelligence gathering, 2270 02:13:53.800 --> 02:13:56.960 but it's possible and maybe maybe you know this and 2271 02:13:57.279 --> 02:14:00.279 maybe it wasn't even a thing, but I imagine, you know, 2272 02:14:00.319 --> 02:14:02.079 with the FARC moving around as much as they did. 2273 02:14:02.159 --> 02:14:06.560 Medcaps are also they're also potentially part of a shaping operation, 2274 02:14:06.720 --> 02:14:09.680 right that if you throw a medcap into a region, 2275 02:14:10.119 --> 02:14:12.199 then the fark is going to move away from that region. 2276 02:14:13.680 --> 02:14:16.359 So you can almost in a way, if you have 2277 02:14:16.439 --> 02:14:20.840 a general area, you can almost channel them or at 2278 02:14:20.920 --> 02:14:25.920 least you know, influence their movement. 2279 02:14:27.760 --> 02:14:31.880 Yeah, I think I think you can. And what's interesting 2280 02:14:31.920 --> 02:14:34.399 you bring that up because we're not the only people 2281 02:14:34.399 --> 02:14:37.000 who go and build wells. Like in beginning of Afghans, 2282 02:14:37.000 --> 02:14:39.279 there's a lot of well building, right because people needed 2283 02:14:39.319 --> 02:14:44.079 water and you would find I want to say, I 2284 02:14:44.119 --> 02:14:49.079 want to say, like Talibland built wells too. Yeah, so 2285 02:14:49.159 --> 02:14:53.000 they would do their own kind of like humanitarian system. 2286 02:14:53.479 --> 02:14:56.359 Like there was some weird stuff where you would be like, well, 2287 02:14:56.359 --> 02:14:58.600 who build this one? And they're like, oh, so, I 2288 02:14:58.600 --> 02:15:02.079 think just like we reconize a kind of these centers 2289 02:15:02.079 --> 02:15:07.079 of gravity for being pro they did the same thing 2290 02:15:07.079 --> 02:15:08.840 and they kind of rewarded. So it's kind of like 2291 02:15:09.000 --> 02:15:11.600 the stick or the carry, right, Well, if you're friends 2292 02:15:11.600 --> 02:15:13.560 with us, then we'll take care of If you're not friends, 2293 02:15:13.560 --> 02:15:16.640 then we're going to come in shwack people. Yeah, and 2294 02:15:17.159 --> 02:15:18.760 maybe maybe we do the same thing. 2295 02:15:18.960 --> 02:15:21.199 Yeah, well, I'd like to think we don't. 2296 02:15:21.600 --> 02:15:23.760 You know, well, I guess I mean that shwack the 2297 02:15:23.760 --> 02:15:25.880 people in each way right, right, if you're doing if 2298 02:15:25.880 --> 02:15:29.920 you're putting place, No, I think you're right too. And 2299 02:15:29.960 --> 02:15:31.479 I think they see that, and I think that's what 2300 02:15:31.560 --> 02:15:33.399 gives us the upper hand, is that we don't do that. 2301 02:15:33.840 --> 02:15:34.960 I think you're exactly right. 2302 02:15:35.359 --> 02:15:37.520 I mean the upper hand in terms of. 2303 02:15:39.319 --> 02:15:41.760 The upper hand in terms of them not being hostile 2304 02:15:41.800 --> 02:15:46.760 towards us. But there is there is a brutal efficiency 2305 02:15:47.640 --> 02:15:49.319 with sort of the mafia. 2306 02:15:50.479 --> 02:15:54.479 Style. It's play nice or will come in. 2307 02:15:54.920 --> 02:15:57.680 It's fear, and you can exactly it's you know, it's 2308 02:15:57.760 --> 02:16:03.159 it's influencing through just direct yeah, fears. So yeah, I 2309 02:16:03.159 --> 02:16:05.439 don't think that we you know. 2310 02:16:05.479 --> 02:16:09.880 I in my experience, you know, which isn't every experience. 2311 02:16:10.119 --> 02:16:12.239 My experience, we've never we haven't played. 2312 02:16:12.079 --> 02:16:14.199 With There may have been some folks who do that, 2313 02:16:14.279 --> 02:16:18.720 but it's not because they're well, I wouldn't think directed, 2314 02:16:18.720 --> 02:16:21.399 and it's certainly not at large scale and it's certainly 2315 02:16:21.439 --> 02:16:26.520 not within your I would say, majority of your soft elements, 2316 02:16:26.560 --> 02:16:30.199 and definitely not your conventional military. It kind of goes 2317 02:16:30.199 --> 02:16:32.879 against doctrine, you know a lot of just doctrine and policy. 2318 02:16:32.920 --> 02:16:36.319 And yeah, I mean, you know, you might get some rogue, 2319 02:16:36.520 --> 02:16:40.280 you know, commander out there who has a you know, 2320 02:16:40.319 --> 02:16:44.559 a small element has influenced over that might pull that 2321 02:16:44.600 --> 02:16:45.079 kind of stuff. 2322 02:16:45.079 --> 02:16:45.600 But it's not. 2323 02:16:47.799 --> 02:16:50.639 It's not within our roes, it's not within our TTPs, 2324 02:16:50.680 --> 02:16:51.040 it's not. 2325 02:16:51.079 --> 02:16:53.959 Within our our doctrine to do something like that. 2326 02:16:54.120 --> 02:16:58.239 And I think that's actually important to know and think about. 2327 02:16:59.760 --> 02:17:05.079 The military is an it's an organization, it's an entity. 2328 02:17:04.600 --> 02:17:10.879 It has a value system attached to it, but it's 2329 02:17:10.879 --> 02:17:14.000 not a person, right, And so there may be people 2330 02:17:14.079 --> 02:17:18.639 doing those sites, but it may not reflect the policies 2331 02:17:18.760 --> 02:17:24.440 and regulatories and common procedures of the larger entity and 2332 02:17:24.600 --> 02:17:28.760 or how it expects its people to behave right. Right, 2333 02:17:29.000 --> 02:17:30.959 So there's bad apples in everybody, and. 2334 02:17:31.280 --> 02:17:37.520 And bad apples and people who go off the rails. 2335 02:17:37.559 --> 02:17:41.760 Look, if you have some like young lieutenant with a. 2336 02:17:41.680 --> 02:17:45.959 Platoon maybe a platoon plus out in some cop right, 2337 02:17:46.799 --> 02:17:50.000 and they keep on getting hit or they keep on 2338 02:17:50.079 --> 02:17:54.840 hitting IDs, And if he's there for eighteen months, at 2339 02:17:54.840 --> 02:17:56.799 some point after he puts his. 2340 02:17:56.799 --> 02:18:00.920 Third, fourth, fifth, due. Guy on a bird at some point. 2341 02:18:00.760 --> 02:18:05.079 Does a switch flip for him and he goes into 2342 02:18:05.200 --> 02:18:07.600 like the local village and he says, hey, look, my 2343 02:18:07.680 --> 02:18:13.959 guys get hit again. I'm there's going to be hell 2344 02:18:13.959 --> 02:18:16.920 to pay. Yeah, Like, I don't know who's doing it. 2345 02:18:17.840 --> 02:18:20.760 You guys know who's doing it. My guys get like, 2346 02:18:21.280 --> 02:18:23.840 that's not the way, That's not the way to do business. 2347 02:18:24.600 --> 02:18:27.280 But I can see. 2348 02:18:28.399 --> 02:18:34.360 An empathize with somebody who who goes who goes there? 2349 02:18:35.440 --> 02:18:35.959 I can't. 2350 02:18:36.760 --> 02:18:39.920 I've actually thought a lot about this, but I think 2351 02:18:39.920 --> 02:18:41.760 it's short sighted, and I'm. 2352 02:18:41.600 --> 02:18:42.840 Not I don't disagree. 2353 02:18:42.959 --> 02:18:45.319 And the reason I say that is so because I 2354 02:18:45.319 --> 02:18:49.000 think about this a lot, like because I think about 2355 02:18:49.000 --> 02:18:52.200 what we asked, like why was there blue on green 2356 02:18:52.319 --> 02:18:55.360 or whatever? I was like, well, I can tell you 2357 02:18:56.159 --> 02:18:58.760 if you came to the States and you were in 2358 02:18:58.799 --> 02:19:03.280 my neighborhood and you were doing questionable things and I 2359 02:19:03.280 --> 02:19:06.399 didn't like, you might have that problem for me too, right, 2360 02:19:07.200 --> 02:19:10.360 and so, and then if you think about, you know, later, 2361 02:19:10.479 --> 02:19:17.319 some of the stuff where you're you're overseeing indigenous forces 2362 02:19:18.559 --> 02:19:21.360 and especially in their areas where they came from, the 2363 02:19:21.559 --> 02:19:24.719 their neighbors, friends, brothers. Now, you don't always know what 2364 02:19:24.760 --> 02:19:26.760 your neighbors are doing. So that's the problem I have. 2365 02:19:27.159 --> 02:19:29.559 It's like, I live in a neighborhood right right, there 2366 02:19:29.559 --> 02:19:32.840 are seventy five hounses. I don't know. I don't know 2367 02:19:32.879 --> 02:19:35.079 what the hell half the people are doing in their houses. 2368 02:19:35.440 --> 02:19:39.040 I don't know if they're doing criminal acts. I don't 2369 02:19:39.120 --> 02:19:42.000 know if they're who they're talking to. I don't know 2370 02:19:42.360 --> 02:19:45.879 what they're doing. Now, maybe there's the rumor mill in 2371 02:19:45.959 --> 02:19:49.120 some places, but I was like, for a large part, 2372 02:19:49.200 --> 02:19:53.000 people can be doing bad stuff in a close proximity 2373 02:19:53.040 --> 02:19:56.159 to you and you truly not know anything about it. 2374 02:19:56.280 --> 02:19:59.319 Yeah right, No, I agree, Like your next door neighbor 2375 02:19:59.360 --> 02:20:04.000 could be a child molest a rapist and beating his wife, 2376 02:20:04.040 --> 02:20:05.840 and if you not know anything about it, you may 2377 02:20:05.879 --> 02:20:09.920 have subtle signs like hey, something's weird with this family. 2378 02:20:10.000 --> 02:20:13.799 But so from that aspect of it, I'm like, you know, 2379 02:20:16.280 --> 02:20:19.639 I can see where the natural instinct would be till 2380 02:20:19.639 --> 02:20:20.680 one hundred percent do that. 2381 02:20:21.760 --> 02:20:24.760 But I think if you wouldn't think. 2382 02:20:24.559 --> 02:20:30.319 It through and actually like, okay, is it plausible and 2383 02:20:30.479 --> 02:20:34.479 logical that they may not know anything about this? And 2384 02:20:35.159 --> 02:20:38.360 if you go with just the stick and you know, 2385 02:20:38.559 --> 02:20:40.959 I'm going to beat you or kill people until you 2386 02:20:41.040 --> 02:20:43.799 tell me, and they don't. What are you going to get? 2387 02:20:44.319 --> 02:20:46.559 You're going to get bad information? And I think that's 2388 02:20:46.600 --> 02:20:49.959 why maybe some of those approaches are not the best approaches. 2389 02:20:50.120 --> 02:20:53.040 I don't disagree with you, you know, And like I 2390 02:20:53.040 --> 02:20:57.000 wouldn't condone, you know, like I said, a young lieutenant 2391 02:20:57.040 --> 02:21:01.520 or captain doing that, I can just imagine their level 2392 02:21:01.559 --> 02:21:06.799 of frustration and there their sense, you know, the inability 2393 02:21:06.840 --> 02:21:09.719 to do anything, the sense of powerlessness, and the desire 2394 02:21:09.840 --> 02:21:13.000 to do something to protect their people, even if that's 2395 02:21:13.000 --> 02:21:20.319 something is toxic and not not well thought out. 2396 02:21:20.559 --> 02:21:24.120 And you know, but you know again, and I guess 2397 02:21:24.159 --> 02:21:28.920 I'm also open minded enough to also think that you 2398 02:21:29.079 --> 02:21:34.399 can manage things in your area by being a good steward. 2399 02:21:34.559 --> 02:21:38.440 And actually, hey, hey, we're going to talk about this, 2400 02:21:38.520 --> 02:21:40.719 and who's ever's doing this needs to get out of 2401 02:21:40.760 --> 02:21:44.440 here because you're putting my family at risk because you're 2402 02:21:44.479 --> 02:21:48.719 doing these things. Right, So I think, you know, I 2403 02:21:48.719 --> 02:21:50.600 can see both sides. I guess I can see them 2404 02:21:50.680 --> 02:21:53.159 resorting to that because they feel like they're tied, they 2405 02:21:53.200 --> 02:21:55.760 don't know what else to do as a leader, They 2406 02:21:55.760 --> 02:21:59.280 feel a responsibility to show that they're doing due diligence 2407 02:21:59.319 --> 02:22:02.639 to the people who are getting affected. And so I 2408 02:22:02.680 --> 02:22:06.200 could see where they would they would feel like, I 2409 02:22:06.280 --> 02:22:08.600 have no other choice but to go in with the 2410 02:22:08.639 --> 02:22:13.079 stick because people are continue getting injured. I need to 2411 02:22:13.120 --> 02:22:15.479 I need to stop this. I can't control this, right, 2412 02:22:15.840 --> 02:22:17.040 And so it's a helplessness I. 2413 02:22:17.440 --> 02:22:17.959 Think so too. 2414 02:22:18.040 --> 02:22:21.399 Yeah, yeah, yes, and that's what I mean that it's 2415 02:22:21.399 --> 02:22:23.559 like it's a breaking point, I think. 2416 02:22:24.440 --> 02:22:26.639 And I don't think this happened a lot. I didn't. 2417 02:22:26.680 --> 02:22:28.200 I haven't heard of it happened a lot. 2418 02:22:28.559 --> 02:22:33.280 But I can imagine the frustration at some of those 2419 02:22:33.319 --> 02:22:38.520 smaller cops with not having assets, not having support, you know, 2420 02:22:38.760 --> 02:22:41.840 not having you know, not being. 2421 02:22:41.639 --> 02:22:42.520 Able to go out. 2422 02:22:42.360 --> 02:22:46.079 Into the village and conduct you know, a med cap 2423 02:22:46.200 --> 02:22:49.000 or you know, a build a well because it's just 2424 02:22:49.079 --> 02:22:51.159 you and your line guys, you know. 2425 02:22:52.600 --> 02:22:57.040 So yeah, anyway, I sorry, I did railed that. But 2426 02:22:57.680 --> 02:23:00.239 so the operation of success do you stay down there 2427 02:23:00.280 --> 02:23:01.200 for a while longer? 2428 02:23:01.920 --> 02:23:03.879 So yeah, we stayed till the end of the tour. 2429 02:23:04.040 --> 02:23:09.079 So once I completed, I hurried up, came back. I had, 2430 02:23:09.159 --> 02:23:14.479 you know, I just basically, I I think I had 2431 02:23:14.479 --> 02:23:17.559 to hurry and sell my house. I had to get 2432 02:23:17.600 --> 02:23:19.920 it ready to sell because I'd been on brag now 2433 02:23:19.959 --> 02:23:22.040 for a good number of years. No, I rented it. 2434 02:23:22.280 --> 02:23:24.680 I had to rehabit to rent and then hurry up 2435 02:23:24.680 --> 02:23:26.959 and just pack up and move and then move to 2436 02:23:27.600 --> 02:23:33.239 the DC area and so so yeah, so then that 2437 02:23:33.399 --> 02:23:36.479 that's that's my time is done for now. At Fort Bragg, 2438 02:23:36.520 --> 02:23:41.200 I ended up going back. But so now I I left, 2439 02:23:41.280 --> 02:23:45.120 and then you know, I ended up up there, and 2440 02:23:45.159 --> 02:23:48.239 then I I kind of got what a lot of 2441 02:23:48.280 --> 02:23:51.479 people get. You know, you really don't know, you don't know. 2442 02:23:51.600 --> 02:23:56.719 And DC's a a big place that hold the national 2443 02:23:56.719 --> 02:24:00.280 capital region, I should say, and and so you know, 2444 02:24:00.360 --> 02:24:03.000 like most people, I'm like, hey man, We're like, you know, 2445 02:24:03.040 --> 02:24:04.959 I have a point of contact, and I'm like, hey, 2446 02:24:07.040 --> 02:24:07.920 where should I live? 2447 02:24:08.200 --> 02:24:10.440 Yeah, that's where it starts out. 2448 02:24:10.479 --> 02:24:14.360 And they're like, hey, you should probably you know, look 2449 02:24:14.399 --> 02:24:15.040 at this area. 2450 02:24:15.200 --> 02:24:15.319 Right. 2451 02:24:15.520 --> 02:24:18.239 So I got given up a geographic area that I 2452 02:24:18.280 --> 02:24:22.319 needed to kind of find a residence too, because if 2453 02:24:22.360 --> 02:24:25.479 you're in the DC area, and if you've ever lived there, 2454 02:24:26.559 --> 02:24:28.159 fifteen miles can take you. 2455 02:24:28.200 --> 02:24:29.440 I was just you know, I was talking to you 2456 02:24:29.559 --> 02:24:31.200 about that. I was like, I was like. 2457 02:24:33.280 --> 02:24:35.440 After I got out of the service, I got offered 2458 02:24:35.440 --> 02:24:36.920 to go back because I wanted to work and do 2459 02:24:37.079 --> 02:24:41.200 policy right. Policy for the under Secretary of Health Affairs 2460 02:24:41.280 --> 02:24:43.000 is what I wanted to do because I had learned 2461 02:24:43.840 --> 02:24:47.000 that I could shape things through policy. And I've been 2462 02:24:47.040 --> 02:24:52.120 taught and mentored by actually somebody who was the unit 2463 02:24:53.159 --> 02:24:59.559 the med start major and and so so. But anyways, 2464 02:24:59.559 --> 02:25:02.760 if you ever been up there, like it's critical where 2465 02:25:02.760 --> 02:25:05.600 you picked to live, because your life can be hell 2466 02:25:05.799 --> 02:25:09.959 for however long you're there. And so luckily I picked 2467 02:25:09.959 --> 02:25:12.840 a good place because I'm living on the Beltway. You know, 2468 02:25:13.079 --> 02:25:15.079 for those that live around there, it's probably like this, 2469 02:25:15.280 --> 02:25:17.239 Like you know, it's like four miles will take you 2470 02:25:17.280 --> 02:25:18.680 an hour to go four miles. 2471 02:25:18.639 --> 02:25:23.440 I honestly think the traffic in that area is much 2472 02:25:23.479 --> 02:25:27.280 worse than traffic in New York. Traffic here can it 2473 02:25:27.319 --> 02:25:31.600 can get messy, but I feel like there it's always messy. 2474 02:25:31.799 --> 02:25:34.680 Yeah, yeah, traffic there could be brutal. 2475 02:25:34.799 --> 02:25:37.760 Yeah, if you don't, like if I needed to go 2476 02:25:37.879 --> 02:25:43.399 to our headquarters, which was much more central, if you 2477 02:25:43.559 --> 02:25:47.239 did not leave that building by three thirty and you 2478 02:25:47.360 --> 02:25:51.159 had to go over the bridge, and you know in Alexandria. 2479 02:25:51.200 --> 02:25:55.319 Then you weren't getting home till seven o'clock at night. 2480 02:25:56.040 --> 02:25:58.440 So it was it was And I was like, man, 2481 02:25:59.479 --> 02:26:02.520 some days three hours each way in traffic. It's like 2482 02:26:02.639 --> 02:26:05.159 six hours of my life every day is in traffic. 2483 02:26:05.280 --> 02:26:10.440 Which yeah, so so yeah. So so I get there 2484 02:26:10.440 --> 02:26:12.680 and like most people, I you know, I'm like, okay, 2485 02:26:12.840 --> 02:26:14.840 what do you do day one? Like, what's day one? 2486 02:26:14.879 --> 02:26:17.040 That's what most people want to know. What's what's day one? 2487 02:26:17.120 --> 02:26:20.440 Look like? Well? Day one looks like meet me in 2488 02:26:20.440 --> 02:26:24.920 a parking lot, meet me at you know, the the 2489 02:26:25.040 --> 02:26:30.520 KFC over here, and then you get you get you 2490 02:26:30.639 --> 02:26:34.760 get escorted, you know, get through the into the building, 2491 02:26:34.840 --> 02:26:37.719 and then uh, you know, it's it's it's a whole 2492 02:26:37.760 --> 02:26:40.319 different environment, you know. And it's like, you know, if 2493 02:26:40.360 --> 02:26:44.920 you folks who worked around skiffs before, you get very 2494 02:26:45.000 --> 02:26:46.879 used to just like leaving your phones. Well, if you're 2495 02:26:46.920 --> 02:26:51.079 in a typical soft element, you know, your electronics and 2496 02:26:51.079 --> 02:26:53.639 your watches aren't a big deal. But you know, it's like, hey, 2497 02:26:53.639 --> 02:26:55.520 if you have anything electronics, you know. So that was 2498 02:26:55.520 --> 02:26:57.879 all new to me. Yeah, you know, I I dealt 2499 02:26:57.879 --> 02:27:02.479 with it, you know, going into certain place with working 2500 02:27:02.479 --> 02:27:04.959 for Jay sock overseas and things like that, but never 2501 02:27:06.079 --> 02:27:10.680 for my everyday work and so you know, so that 2502 02:27:10.799 --> 02:27:14.319 was kind of new and and so yeah, so you know, 2503 02:27:14.360 --> 02:27:20.760 I get there and uh, surprisingly the organization I was 2504 02:27:21.120 --> 02:27:25.559 a part of, I was ended up being on the 2505 02:27:26.319 --> 02:27:30.920 on the manning role. So there there's a lot of 2506 02:27:30.920 --> 02:27:32.719 medics who've been in there over time. So I was 2507 02:27:32.719 --> 02:27:35.639 a medic. So that's that's one important distinction. So I 2508 02:27:35.799 --> 02:27:40.159 was if if if, yeah, that's what I was. I was. 2509 02:27:40.280 --> 02:27:44.239 I was hired to be a direct support medic. 2510 02:27:44.959 --> 02:27:47.799 So so just to break down the difference or when 2511 02:27:47.799 --> 02:27:50.200 you when you're saying this that it would be like 2512 02:27:50.520 --> 02:27:52.319 it'd like be sort of like being a range of 2513 02:27:52.319 --> 02:27:55.879 battalion that you have your line cartoons who are who 2514 02:27:55.879 --> 02:27:59.319 are the main effort or not necessarily the main effort, 2515 02:27:59.600 --> 02:28:03.360 but but they're the technical experts in in what they do, 2516 02:28:03.879 --> 02:28:04.360 and then. 2517 02:28:04.319 --> 02:28:06.799 You're there as direct support to those. 2518 02:28:07.200 --> 02:28:11.959 One hundred Yes, so that's one hundred percent right. So 2519 02:28:11.959 --> 02:28:14.239 so yeah, so let let me all rewind a bit 2520 02:28:14.280 --> 02:28:17.000 and then we'll pick back up. So, going through the 2521 02:28:17.000 --> 02:28:21.319 the the screening process, they make it very clear that 2522 02:28:21.319 --> 02:28:23.920 that's what you want to do, right, and they ask 2523 02:28:24.000 --> 02:28:27.479 you that, and you know, and and I kind of asked, like. 2524 02:28:27.520 --> 02:28:30.000 Well, what else can I do? Well? 2525 02:28:30.079 --> 02:28:32.200 No, no, I didn't. I didn't ask that because I 2526 02:28:32.200 --> 02:28:34.639 didn't I had no desire. And that's an important thing. 2527 02:28:34.639 --> 02:28:38.239 And actually later on I was part of building their 2528 02:28:38.639 --> 02:28:40.600 enhanced selection program for medics. 2529 02:28:40.840 --> 02:28:41.000 Huh. 2530 02:28:41.920 --> 02:28:44.760 I ran the very first one as the kind of 2531 02:28:45.159 --> 02:28:51.239 enhanced screening. Sorry major, And but yeah, you you do 2532 02:28:51.280 --> 02:28:54.319 not want folks who want to do something else. If 2533 02:28:54.360 --> 02:28:56.159 you want to do something else, you need to go 2534 02:28:56.239 --> 02:28:59.440 do that, right. What you're here to do is to 2535 02:28:59.479 --> 02:29:02.479 be DS medic. And then we had two kinds of medics. 2536 02:29:02.479 --> 02:29:06.239 We had clinical medics and direct support medics. And so 2537 02:29:06.559 --> 02:29:09.280 to a direct support medic we pulled from all services 2538 02:29:10.520 --> 02:29:13.760 and from except yeah, all services that actually have medics. 2539 02:29:13.760 --> 02:29:18.920 Marines don't have medics. And and essentially a soft background. 2540 02:29:18.959 --> 02:29:20.040 You had to have soft brack and you had to 2541 02:29:20.079 --> 02:29:22.600 have certain combat qualifications. That's what I ask. You know, 2542 02:29:22.639 --> 02:29:26.639 it's like you know why, you know, how did I 2543 02:29:26.719 --> 02:29:27.719 make how did I make it? 2544 02:29:27.799 --> 02:29:27.920 You know? 2545 02:29:27.959 --> 02:29:31.120 How did I get this par And they're like I'll 2546 02:29:31.120 --> 02:29:33.120 never forget. They're like, you're right, and nobody's here by 2547 02:29:33.120 --> 02:29:36.639 a mistake and so that was that was it was 2548 02:29:37.040 --> 02:29:40.680 pretty fulfilling just to hear that. And then you know, 2549 02:29:40.799 --> 02:29:43.000 the next thing, you know, because it was I had 2550 02:29:43.000 --> 02:29:46.239 already went through the I guess the screening portion, and 2551 02:29:46.280 --> 02:29:49.600 I won't talk about that because it's it's important to 2552 02:29:49.719 --> 02:29:55.520 keep that that component protected. Yeah, And and so they're like, 2553 02:29:56.079 --> 02:29:59.520 we're looking for folks who will reach for the brass 2554 02:29:59.639 --> 02:30:05.159 ring knowing they could be styrofoam and hoping they could 2555 02:30:05.239 --> 02:30:10.680 be brass. And so I was like, Okay, that's a 2556 02:30:10.680 --> 02:30:14.399 lot to think about. But essentially, it's like it's willing 2557 02:30:14.520 --> 02:30:18.639 to try something unknown and that we can't talk to 2558 02:30:18.680 --> 02:30:21.239 you about and we're not going to And so that's 2559 02:30:21.280 --> 02:30:25.159 why it's really important to keep that just not for 2560 02:30:25.239 --> 02:30:28.000 people to know. And I think it's important for people 2561 02:30:28.079 --> 02:30:30.360 to know things that are out there and to challenge 2562 02:30:30.399 --> 02:30:37.879 yourself because I think that where we are in today 2563 02:30:37.920 --> 02:30:39.559 and I don't know how folks feel, but it's just 2564 02:30:39.600 --> 02:30:43.040 how I feel. You know. I have two young sons 2565 02:30:43.079 --> 02:30:45.680 who are in the military. All three of my sons served, 2566 02:30:46.120 --> 02:30:53.520 all paratroopers. Proud of that, and I think that we 2567 02:30:53.639 --> 02:31:00.360 have a culture that's and it's throughout time we pay 2568 02:31:00.639 --> 02:31:06.200 homage to the court jesters and not the gladiators, and 2569 02:31:06.399 --> 02:31:10.280 folks need to have an appreciation for the folks who 2570 02:31:10.479 --> 02:31:16.239 keep our nation safe, and folks and young service members 2571 02:31:16.479 --> 02:31:20.600 and people and civilians who have ambition and want to 2572 02:31:20.680 --> 02:31:23.959 challenge themselves. They need to know there's other things out there. 2573 02:31:24.079 --> 02:31:28.559 And even soft is the best way I can describe 2574 02:31:28.559 --> 02:31:32.639 it as soft, as like a multi story building and 2575 02:31:32.719 --> 02:31:37.280 there's floors, and even the organization that I was part 2576 02:31:37.399 --> 02:31:41.159 of has floors where there's people who work at the 2577 02:31:41.200 --> 02:31:45.200 first floor and they kind of do first floor things, 2578 02:31:45.680 --> 02:31:48.600 and then there's people on the twentieth floor, and the 2579 02:31:48.639 --> 02:31:51.360 people on the twenty fourth floor do things that people 2580 02:31:51.399 --> 02:31:55.319 on the first floor don't even know about, right, And 2581 02:31:55.360 --> 02:31:59.239 then there's buildings across the street that they do other 2582 02:31:59.280 --> 02:32:03.600 things at, and so there are a lot of things. 2583 02:32:03.600 --> 02:32:06.840 If you have ambitions to do things, I think it's 2584 02:32:07.200 --> 02:32:11.159 important to know that there's things out there, and those 2585 02:32:11.200 --> 02:32:14.719 are the people that you should really respect and admire. 2586 02:32:14.920 --> 02:32:21.040 And I have the utmost respect and appreciation for being 2587 02:32:21.040 --> 02:32:23.719 able to be a part of that organization because it's 2588 02:32:23.799 --> 02:32:30.360 extremely special. And I didn't really going back full circle 2589 02:32:30.399 --> 02:32:32.639 to where we are is when I signed in. I 2590 02:32:32.680 --> 02:32:35.200 didn't realize how special of a place I was at, 2591 02:32:37.440 --> 02:32:40.399 and I certainly didn't feel worthy of being there. And 2592 02:32:40.479 --> 02:32:43.120 I had signed in, so going to my background, right, 2593 02:32:43.280 --> 02:32:46.559 I'd done some things right, and I experienced combat and 2594 02:32:46.639 --> 02:32:53.159 loss and was working with you know, Tier one elements 2595 02:32:53.239 --> 02:32:57.159 essentially overseas, and you know, and I'm signing in with 2596 02:32:57.719 --> 02:33:00.120 you know, another guy. So I'm medic number five and 2597 02:33:00.120 --> 02:33:03.639 he's six, or vice versa. So there's there's only seven 2598 02:33:03.680 --> 02:33:07.440 of us for this whole place, and we have other 2599 02:33:07.600 --> 02:33:12.520 medical people, but direct sport medics and and he so 2600 02:33:12.639 --> 02:33:15.719 I was a sixty whiskey whiskey one, a SOCCA medic, 2601 02:33:15.760 --> 02:33:18.719 and he was in eighteen Delta who was also an 2602 02:33:18.719 --> 02:33:21.959 eighteen Bravo and who had also been a sodic and 2603 02:33:22.000 --> 02:33:24.959 a sephardic and all this instructor stuff, and you know, 2604 02:33:24.959 --> 02:33:27.120 and I was like, I was like, man, I gotta 2605 02:33:27.440 --> 02:33:31.520 step my game up, you know, and and so you know, 2606 02:33:31.559 --> 02:33:33.680 I really had an appreciation. And it was really like 2607 02:33:35.600 --> 02:33:37.600 it's like you be, you know, a small fish back 2608 02:33:37.600 --> 02:33:39.520 in a big pond. I felt like where I was 2609 02:33:39.600 --> 02:33:43.879 before I became a big fish, and you know, I 2610 02:33:43.959 --> 02:33:46.719 knew what I needed to do, and I was very 2611 02:33:46.799 --> 02:33:50.200 I felt I was extremely good medic and very competent medic. 2612 02:33:50.959 --> 02:33:52.760 And I don't say that with an ego. I worked 2613 02:33:52.760 --> 02:33:56.079 hard to be one of the best medics and I 2614 02:33:56.079 --> 02:34:00.159 think the inventory, you know, and and so now I 2615 02:34:00.159 --> 02:34:02.319 I think, I think I made it to the major 2616 02:34:02.399 --> 02:34:04.000 leagues and I got to step my game up on 2617 02:34:04.079 --> 02:34:08.079 a small fish again and uh so so yeah, So 2618 02:34:08.200 --> 02:34:12.239 it was just I was surrounded by very impressive people. 2619 02:34:12.280 --> 02:34:16.520 And I'll and that's just with respect to the medical section. 2620 02:34:18.280 --> 02:34:21.799 You know, people who were extremely accomplished, and you just 2621 02:34:21.879 --> 02:34:25.000 kind of get humbled instantly. Again You're like, okay, this 2622 02:34:25.079 --> 02:34:26.280 is this is next level. 2623 02:34:26.440 --> 02:34:30.920 Yeah, it's interesting because I want to focus real quick 2624 02:34:30.959 --> 02:34:33.799 on what you say. You know, we've talked about soft 2625 02:34:34.559 --> 02:34:37.239 getting a line share of the glory, but also when 2626 02:34:37.239 --> 02:34:39.799 we talk about soft, we are talking about shooters getting 2627 02:34:39.799 --> 02:34:44.680 a line share of the glory. Uh but there are 2628 02:34:45.000 --> 02:34:49.840 shiit hot mechanics that make that mission possible, right, Like 2629 02:34:49.959 --> 02:34:52.799 people who aren't just content to go out to the 2630 02:34:52.840 --> 02:34:56.559 motor pool and do the do the service, Like there 2631 02:34:56.600 --> 02:35:00.920 are people who continually learn who can make magic. There 2632 02:35:00.959 --> 02:35:03.959 there are there are there are cooks who care about 2633 02:35:03.959 --> 02:35:07.799 their jobs there are you know, like, no matter where 2634 02:35:07.840 --> 02:35:10.120 you are, you don't have to be sort of the 2635 02:35:10.159 --> 02:35:12.799 tip of the spear to be the tip of the 2636 02:35:12.840 --> 02:35:17.079 spear of of your field. And one of the things 2637 02:35:17.079 --> 02:35:20.600 I always appreciate about the military was just the vast 2638 02:35:20.680 --> 02:35:25.600 number of opportunities if you want to go get it, 2639 02:35:25.680 --> 02:35:27.879 you know, if you ask around, if you put in 2640 02:35:27.879 --> 02:35:30.479 those forty one eighty seven's, you know, for every school 2641 02:35:30.479 --> 02:35:33.760 you can think of, and you know, like the opportunities 2642 02:35:33.760 --> 02:35:34.840 are there a lot of times. 2643 02:35:34.959 --> 02:35:38.799 Yeah, No, I think you touched on an interesting point. 2644 02:35:40.159 --> 02:35:42.719 So later on my career when I went back to BRAG, 2645 02:35:44.520 --> 02:35:46.040 you know, as a senior leader on the base, you 2646 02:35:46.120 --> 02:35:48.360 kind of get hosted and kind of toured around and 2647 02:35:48.559 --> 02:35:51.479 you know, and I got invited over to the organization 2648 02:35:51.559 --> 02:35:54.159 at BRAG and they gave me a tour. And so 2649 02:35:54.200 --> 02:35:56.120 it was it was at lunch time and probably a 2650 02:35:56.120 --> 02:36:00.799 lot of people know this, right, there's the places where 2651 02:36:00.840 --> 02:36:02.959 the shooters sit at and the place where the other 2652 02:36:03.000 --> 02:36:05.040 people sit at. It's kind of like high school. It 2653 02:36:05.079 --> 02:36:08.360 was really odd, but it was essentially like, oh, we 2654 02:36:08.440 --> 02:36:11.159 sit over here, and I was like, that's that's okay, 2655 02:36:11.280 --> 02:36:15.479 that's different, you know, and but and I noticed that 2656 02:36:15.559 --> 02:36:20.840 even working with the guys in the Navy at the beach, 2657 02:36:21.840 --> 02:36:26.799 it's very much us and them's when it comes to 2658 02:36:26.920 --> 02:36:32.079 the support folks. I can say, although there's a very 2659 02:36:32.159 --> 02:36:36.319 clear distinction in line of who's the guy and who's 2660 02:36:36.360 --> 02:36:43.799 not the guy, the the acceptance and the respect mutual 2661 02:36:43.840 --> 02:36:49.000 respect for what people do was beyond something I've ever 2662 02:36:49.079 --> 02:36:53.440 experienced before. And you definitely when you're in soft and 2663 02:36:53.559 --> 02:36:55.360 especially a CE guy, you kind of know you're a 2664 02:36:55.399 --> 02:36:58.440 sea again, right, You kind of know, and your ranger 2665 02:36:58.719 --> 02:37:01.879 probably working with I'm guessing with Delta, you kind of 2666 02:37:01.879 --> 02:37:06.639 know you're arranging right, there's no mistake and so and 2667 02:37:06.719 --> 02:37:09.239 there's gonna be times where they draw that line, I'm 2668 02:37:09.239 --> 02:37:16.680 guessing when you're in supporting them. And so there it 2669 02:37:16.799 --> 02:37:20.879 was very much different you were. You were much I 2670 02:37:20.920 --> 02:37:26.040 think it was because of just the necessity to support 2671 02:37:26.159 --> 02:37:32.159 things they did and keep them going, because those guys 2672 02:37:32.319 --> 02:37:36.440 it's different, they don't And and I'll try to keep 2673 02:37:36.479 --> 02:37:41.040 this focused on just how I sure supported folks from 2674 02:37:41.120 --> 02:37:44.879 a medical perspective and kind of leave it at that, 2675 02:37:45.600 --> 02:37:48.040 because I think it's still pretty cool to be to 2676 02:37:48.120 --> 02:37:53.360 be quite, to be quite honest and and so. But yeah, 2677 02:37:53.440 --> 02:37:57.040 so those guys they a lot of times it's not 2678 02:37:57.159 --> 02:37:59.719 like you're going and coming back. There's some folks that 2679 02:37:59.799 --> 02:38:02.440 do that, they come and go, but there's some folks 2680 02:38:02.479 --> 02:38:06.920 who go and they just go and they're gone, and 2681 02:38:06.959 --> 02:38:10.159 everything's got to keep going for them because folks, you know, 2682 02:38:10.200 --> 02:38:12.719 they have families and they have everything on the backside. 2683 02:38:13.040 --> 02:38:16.200 And so you it's the thing that I seen, like 2684 02:38:16.280 --> 02:38:18.719 my experience with the military, and again just keeping it 2685 02:38:18.840 --> 02:38:24.079 from the healthcare centric, your families aren't getting seen at 2686 02:38:24.079 --> 02:38:28.520 the age station, right, right, it's not normal. There are 2687 02:38:28.559 --> 02:38:30.799 some other elements that actually do extend a little bit 2688 02:38:30.799 --> 02:38:33.920 more for the family, but that's one of the components. 2689 02:38:33.959 --> 02:38:37.959 Like the family's very taken care of. And so, you know, 2690 02:38:38.360 --> 02:38:41.000 the positive light is there's folks doing this, and I 2691 02:38:41.200 --> 02:38:44.440 think that they know that their families are being taken 2692 02:38:44.479 --> 02:38:46.520 care of, and we would do anything to take and 2693 02:38:46.840 --> 02:38:51.600 it's very concierge based medicine. It's like, hey, if I 2694 02:38:51.680 --> 02:38:55.239 need to, you know, at the you know, six o'clock 2695 02:38:55.239 --> 02:38:57.840 at night, run over and drop some medicine or pills 2696 02:38:57.879 --> 02:39:01.680 off to somebody's house. That's not abnormal. And you got 2697 02:39:01.719 --> 02:39:05.440 to think this is like, you know, you're a medic 2698 02:39:05.520 --> 02:39:09.799 and normally, like in a in a normal we'll just say, 2699 02:39:09.799 --> 02:39:12.680 in a conventional unit, you're kind of your times practicing 2700 02:39:12.719 --> 02:39:15.879 medicine ends at like E five, E six, you know, 2701 02:39:15.920 --> 02:39:19.079 you're e seventy eight still like doing sick hall and 2702 02:39:19.120 --> 02:39:21.799 passing out pills and taking care of people's families and 2703 02:39:21.840 --> 02:39:25.799 making sure they're taken care of and so so there's 2704 02:39:25.799 --> 02:39:28.879 that dynamic of the job where it's it's making sure 2705 02:39:28.959 --> 02:39:33.120 that they just have every their health stuff and order, 2706 02:39:35.200 --> 02:39:40.399 and then there's everything that you may not think of 2707 02:39:40.559 --> 02:39:43.000 that you need to do to make sure that they 2708 02:39:43.079 --> 02:39:46.920 will be taken care of medically if something would happen, 2709 02:39:49.280 --> 02:39:55.280 and so that gets pretty pretty that's pretty interesting. So 2710 02:39:56.399 --> 02:39:59.479 it was the first you know, with the well, let 2711 02:39:59.559 --> 02:40:03.239 me let me pause on that and kind of go 2712 02:40:03.280 --> 02:40:06.159 back to where we were. So so I get there. 2713 02:40:07.680 --> 02:40:09.639 Sorry, I I derailed things. 2714 02:40:09.799 --> 02:40:12.079 Yeah, No, it's okay, it's it's a it's a I 2715 02:40:12.120 --> 02:40:15.399 definitely want to touch on it. But so going back 2716 02:40:15.440 --> 02:40:17.760 to what I got to, so I get there, and 2717 02:40:21.159 --> 02:40:23.079 you know, I'm just learning, I'm taking on all the 2718 02:40:23.079 --> 02:40:27.639 information you know, I'm getting, you know, just in processing, 2719 02:40:27.680 --> 02:40:29.440 and then I'm going to where I'm going to work 2720 02:40:29.440 --> 02:40:32.559 out because not everybody works at the same place, and 2721 02:40:32.639 --> 02:40:35.440 so I'm, you know, getting told where where I'm going 2722 02:40:35.520 --> 02:40:37.600 to work. I already kind of know because it's where 2723 02:40:37.639 --> 02:40:39.719 I'm going to live, so I know the area. But 2724 02:40:39.760 --> 02:40:41.760 then I kind of get my headquarters stuff done and 2725 02:40:41.760 --> 02:40:44.760 then go out to to where I'm going to work 2726 02:40:45.399 --> 02:40:51.959 and we find out that we were We traditionally did 2727 02:40:52.000 --> 02:40:59.879 not participate in a this tasking, which is if you've 2728 02:41:00.079 --> 02:41:06.120 ever been a part of JAYSK or the organization or 2729 02:41:06.200 --> 02:41:08.479 any one of the units in there, like we touched 2730 02:41:08.479 --> 02:41:12.200 on before you know the place exists, you don't know 2731 02:41:12.280 --> 02:41:16.200 what they do. Like I feel comfortable, I've talked to 2732 02:41:16.680 --> 02:41:19.920 enough people with and without telling you anything, because people like, 2733 02:41:19.959 --> 02:41:22.760 where do you what did you do? That's the first thing. 2734 02:41:22.799 --> 02:41:26.760 It's off, like the butt sniffing, Well, I worked up 2735 02:41:26.799 --> 02:41:29.600 in the DC area. They either know where they don't know, 2736 02:41:29.959 --> 02:41:32.520 and if they know, it's they think they know everything, 2737 02:41:32.559 --> 02:41:36.360 but they probably don't. The reality is that's okay, And 2738 02:41:36.360 --> 02:41:39.000 and if they don't know it all, then it's too 2739 02:41:39.079 --> 02:41:41.639 much to you just leave it alone, just like, well, 2740 02:41:41.639 --> 02:41:43.559 there's something else up there and that's where I work. 2741 02:41:43.920 --> 02:41:47.479 You just kind of leave it at that. So we 2742 02:41:47.520 --> 02:41:50.159 didn't play in these taskings. And so we were getting 2743 02:41:50.200 --> 02:41:53.959 the taskings to do the mega stuff. And I think 2744 02:41:54.000 --> 02:41:59.440 you've had folks talk about that before. So the medic 2745 02:41:59.479 --> 02:42:03.840 whoo who had kind of brought me in and recruited me, 2746 02:42:04.239 --> 02:42:06.680 he had just came and now we were going on 2747 02:42:06.719 --> 02:42:10.159 a second rotation. They needed somebody to backfill him on 2748 02:42:10.200 --> 02:42:12.319 a rotation, so I had or he was just getting 2749 02:42:12.319 --> 02:42:13.440 ready to go on his. 2750 02:42:15.239 --> 02:42:16.319 And I needed to get spun up. 2751 02:42:16.319 --> 02:42:17.479 So I had to do all my you know, I 2752 02:42:17.520 --> 02:42:19.520 got improcessed, and then I have to do all my 2753 02:42:19.639 --> 02:42:23.319 basically training to get me full mission qualified because to 2754 02:42:23.319 --> 02:42:26.040 be a direct support medic, so I had to do 2755 02:42:26.079 --> 02:42:29.120 a paramedic transition because at the time, I don't know 2756 02:42:29.120 --> 02:42:33.440 if they get paramedics certification out of SOCCAM. 2757 02:42:33.639 --> 02:42:34.159 Yeah, I don't know. 2758 02:42:34.159 --> 02:42:37.399 If they lost it for a while, they schoolhouse lost it. 2759 02:42:37.680 --> 02:42:39.319 I don't know if they lost it, you know. 2760 02:42:39.920 --> 02:42:41.920 Or if they see the value in it or whatever. 2761 02:42:42.040 --> 02:42:43.159 For whatever reason they. 2762 02:42:43.000 --> 02:42:45.520 Did, they weren't paramedics and that was the requirement. If 2763 02:42:45.559 --> 02:42:47.440 you're a medic, you need to be a paramedic. Okay, 2764 02:42:47.479 --> 02:42:49.479 so I had to go do a paramedic. So it's 2765 02:42:49.479 --> 02:42:52.920 a one month crash course where you basically learn all 2766 02:42:52.920 --> 02:42:57.040 the information about the medicines and all the stuff you 2767 02:42:57.079 --> 02:43:02.079 don't deal with in military medicine, cardiactor and just intocrine 2768 02:43:02.120 --> 02:43:07.319 system disorders, and geriatric medicine, pediatric medicine, basically everything beyond 2769 02:43:07.319 --> 02:43:11.479 trauma medicine right military medics, no trauma, and then operations 2770 02:43:11.799 --> 02:43:13.840 because you got to know where to park the ambulance, 2771 02:43:13.879 --> 02:43:16.520 how far it needs to be back just all this 2772 02:43:16.559 --> 02:43:19.600 weird stuff. That have a paramedic exam, So you go 2773 02:43:19.600 --> 02:43:21.319 through a crash course and do that. Then you have 2774 02:43:21.399 --> 02:43:25.239 to do your shooting courses, and you have to go 2775 02:43:25.280 --> 02:43:27.959 through driving training where you go and do all that. 2776 02:43:28.000 --> 02:43:33.319 So you're shooting and driving, and then paramedic and then 2777 02:43:36.040 --> 02:43:40.840 just some basic just I guess in doc training. So 2778 02:43:41.200 --> 02:43:44.239 I completed all that to backfill and get him. In 2779 02:43:44.280 --> 02:43:48.319 the meantime, I learned about another program that they were 2780 02:43:48.360 --> 02:43:55.360 doing for medics, but because of how I looked, I 2781 02:43:55.440 --> 02:43:58.399 wasn't a good fit for that program, so I didn't 2782 02:43:58.440 --> 02:44:01.159 get to do that. And then the weird thing is 2783 02:44:01.159 --> 02:44:03.440 there's people who kind of didn't want to do the 2784 02:44:03.479 --> 02:44:06.440 tactical stuff anymore. So they went and kind of gravitated 2785 02:44:06.479 --> 02:44:09.639 toward that, and I was still okay doing you know, 2786 02:44:11.280 --> 02:44:14.239 running and gunning, if you will type stuff, or of 2787 02:44:14.280 --> 02:44:19.920 your wearing uniform type stuff, you know, in a combat zone. 2788 02:44:20.360 --> 02:44:25.399 And so I was was once I finished all that, 2789 02:44:25.879 --> 02:44:29.559 signed up and that was my next deployment. So roughly, 2790 02:44:31.040 --> 02:44:38.719 I want to say it was probably less than a 2791 02:44:38.840 --> 02:44:45.719 year coming back from Columbia. Then I was back in Afghanistan. 2792 02:44:45.799 --> 02:44:50.040 And you were in a rock shortly before, so you've been. 2793 02:44:50.959 --> 02:44:55.680 Yeah, yeah, so and the thing is like, you know, 2794 02:44:56.200 --> 02:45:00.559 like I had mentioned just what what of her number 2795 02:45:00.600 --> 02:45:02.280 it was. I think by the time I got there, 2796 02:45:02.319 --> 02:45:07.559 I'd done five or six seven trips throughout the world 2797 02:45:07.680 --> 02:45:12.280 and it had caught up with me. But the excitement 2798 02:45:12.319 --> 02:45:14.840 of something new, you kind of suppress all that, right 2799 02:45:14.840 --> 02:45:18.799 because you want to You're eager, you we're all in right, 2800 02:45:19.079 --> 02:45:21.639 Like that's the thing is, like you got something going, 2801 02:45:21.680 --> 02:45:24.000 I want to be on. You're like fighting for to 2802 02:45:24.079 --> 02:45:26.280 go out the door. It's like no, no, no, I 2803 02:45:26.280 --> 02:45:29.360 want to do that. Let me and so you know, 2804 02:45:29.440 --> 02:45:34.159 send me, right, That's what everybody says. So so the uh, 2805 02:45:34.479 --> 02:45:43.879 so you know, I get fully ramped up, get funny 2806 02:45:43.920 --> 02:45:50.000 story about the organization and the medical folks. We didn't 2807 02:45:50.040 --> 02:45:54.559 have a history of actually having medics forward in places 2808 02:45:55.280 --> 02:45:57.879 and and or doing those kind of things. So the 2809 02:45:57.920 --> 02:46:00.360 gear kind of sucked. You would think you would have 2810 02:46:00.399 --> 02:46:04.760 all the best ships, right right. Oh No, Like I 2811 02:46:04.840 --> 02:46:07.840 went to the headquarters to get my so I get 2812 02:46:07.840 --> 02:46:10.000 my drawl and you get like all the The cool 2813 02:46:10.000 --> 02:46:13.159 thing about is you get all the like the ARII stuff, 2814 02:46:13.360 --> 02:46:15.360 Like it's like an ari I vomited on you. You 2815 02:46:15.399 --> 02:46:17.440 get like money and you get to go buy all 2816 02:46:17.440 --> 02:46:20.319 this stuff, and you like, you got all this stuff 2817 02:46:20.360 --> 02:46:23.120 you really don't eat, like these super cold weather sleeping 2818 02:46:23.200 --> 02:46:26.799 bags and seven hundred dollars boots, and you know, it's 2819 02:46:26.840 --> 02:46:29.000 it's just like stuff you're a kid in a candy 2820 02:46:29.040 --> 02:46:32.479 store and like, you know, so you take advantage of that. 2821 02:46:34.600 --> 02:46:36.959 And so but what I didn't have was like. 2822 02:46:40.520 --> 02:46:44.920 Just the uh the weapons system, like the optics were 2823 02:46:45.000 --> 02:46:48.840 just kind of kind of antiquated older stuff, and just 2824 02:46:48.920 --> 02:46:52.840 the body armor. It was just like older play carrier stuff. 2825 02:46:52.879 --> 02:46:58.040 It wasn't like newer stuff. So so yeah, that was 2826 02:46:58.079 --> 02:47:00.479 the first odd thing about the organization. Gave me all 2827 02:47:00.520 --> 02:47:05.239 this shit, but once I got into to damn Nick, 2828 02:47:05.319 --> 02:47:07.600 they gave me a full issue. So it's they took 2829 02:47:07.680 --> 02:47:10.639 care of me this so but they did that for everybody, 2830 02:47:10.680 --> 02:47:15.079 so all the augments came together. So this was this 2831 02:47:15.239 --> 02:47:22.879 was September of two thousand and nine. So get down 2832 02:47:22.920 --> 02:47:25.680 there to do my in processing and you kind of 2833 02:47:25.840 --> 02:47:27.559 just do an in doc and you get some legal 2834 02:47:27.559 --> 02:47:30.600 briefs and then you go and meet your folks at 2835 02:47:30.600 --> 02:47:33.959 the squadron and then you meet your team team leader 2836 02:47:35.879 --> 02:47:37.920 and then you go through their version of the army 2837 02:47:37.920 --> 02:47:41.399 calls at CIF, but it's like a unit level. They 2838 02:47:41.399 --> 02:47:43.639 could get your unit issue, you go to supply and 2839 02:47:43.680 --> 02:47:48.479 get all your your stuff and then next thing you know, 2840 02:47:49.879 --> 02:47:54.520 on a plane. So went from like civil affairs to 2841 02:47:55.680 --> 02:47:58.639 on a plane with Sealed Team six. 2842 02:47:58.840 --> 02:48:03.680 Yeah, which I mean you you had already been exposed 2843 02:48:03.680 --> 02:48:04.120 to the task. 2844 02:48:04.239 --> 02:48:07.479 You've already been tasked to them. It's just that now 2845 02:48:07.520 --> 02:48:08.959 you're in a much. 2846 02:48:08.760 --> 02:48:11.680 More direct I think that is the key difference, right, 2847 02:48:11.719 --> 02:48:17.799 because it's like you're it's kind of like being attached 2848 02:48:17.799 --> 02:48:20.280 to an ODA, right, Like you're an attached but you're 2849 02:48:20.360 --> 02:48:23.399 not really doing their stuff. You're doing your stuff working 2850 02:48:23.440 --> 02:48:26.000 with them. So I think a lot of people get 2851 02:48:26.040 --> 02:48:31.479 caught up in this stretching it. You know, it's like 2852 02:48:31.680 --> 02:48:34.239 stretching what you've done, and it's like, look, at the 2853 02:48:34.280 --> 02:48:36.479 end of the day, I did my job right. That's 2854 02:48:36.719 --> 02:48:38.760 was my job to do, and I did my job right, 2855 02:48:39.079 --> 02:48:41.440 and I worked with those guys. But that doesn't mean 2856 02:48:41.479 --> 02:48:43.200 I was one of those guys. And it doesn't mean 2857 02:48:43.239 --> 02:48:45.639 that I had their training, nor does it mean I knew, 2858 02:48:47.479 --> 02:48:51.760 you know, like everything or did everything they did right. 2859 02:48:51.920 --> 02:48:56.000 There was times we touched and did things together, and 2860 02:48:56.040 --> 02:48:59.079 there's you know, jointly operations, but then there's for a 2861 02:48:59.159 --> 02:49:01.879 large part they're doing their things and we're doing our things, 2862 02:49:02.520 --> 02:49:06.799 and they're synergistic in the fact that in the mission planning, 2863 02:49:06.879 --> 02:49:09.399 in the higher pitcher they work together. But that that 2864 02:49:09.440 --> 02:49:13.159 doesn't mean you have some civil affairs guy in the 2865 02:49:13.200 --> 02:49:15.760 stack with you. That's not how it is, or at least 2866 02:49:15.799 --> 02:49:20.000 that wasn't my experience. And so while I had done 2867 02:49:20.120 --> 02:49:23.399 stuff with those guys, it was much more after the fact. 2868 02:49:23.719 --> 02:49:26.000 But now it's like, Okay, your job is to be 2869 02:49:27.239 --> 02:49:31.600 a direct part of the team. You're I mean, you're 2870 02:49:31.639 --> 02:49:33.840 a shooter first, right, everybody says that, you know, you're 2871 02:49:33.879 --> 02:49:40.280 you're a shooter first, soldier first, right, and so so yeah, 2872 02:49:40.319 --> 02:49:44.600 So that's the interesting fact about coming from that organization 2873 02:49:45.000 --> 02:49:49.000 is people really don't question you. That was the one 2874 02:49:49.200 --> 02:49:55.040 thing that I noticed. It's like almost like a credibility thing. Uh. 2875 02:49:55.399 --> 02:49:56.920 You know, I'd like to think it was because me, 2876 02:49:57.120 --> 02:50:00.399 but I think it's just like they don't ask and 2877 02:50:00.440 --> 02:50:03.239 you don't say anything, and they're like, okay, well, all right, 2878 02:50:03.360 --> 02:50:04.600 you know, this is what we're going to do, and 2879 02:50:04.639 --> 02:50:07.360 you're you're part of the team. And I know that 2880 02:50:07.520 --> 02:50:10.479 wasn't the same for everybody else. And so on my rotation, 2881 02:50:11.200 --> 02:50:14.639 you know, there was a guy from I think from 2882 02:50:14.719 --> 02:50:16.760 jay Sock, Maine, and then they had like one of 2883 02:50:16.760 --> 02:50:22.239 their medics, and then they had they had some medics 2884 02:50:22.239 --> 02:50:24.559 from the a medic because there wasn't a lot, you know, 2885 02:50:24.559 --> 02:50:26.600 I think there was only I don't know how many 2886 02:50:26.600 --> 02:50:29.079 teams there they'd fit on both hands, how many teams 2887 02:50:29.079 --> 02:50:34.440 outstations there were. But from the one sixtieth and so 2888 02:50:35.200 --> 02:50:38.479 I knew because he had told me. We had talked 2889 02:50:38.520 --> 02:50:41.399 before and we kind of keep you know, we talk 2890 02:50:41.479 --> 02:50:43.200 back and forth on the you know, on the computer 2891 02:50:43.319 --> 02:50:46.600 chat and he's like, yeah, you know, they're giving me problems. 2892 02:50:46.600 --> 02:50:48.200 They're they don't they're not going to let me go 2893 02:50:48.239 --> 02:50:50.719 out with them, you know. 2894 02:50:50.719 --> 02:50:53.639 It's one younger younger Yeah, and I don't you know. 2895 02:50:53.680 --> 02:50:55.239 And not to say that happened to all of them, 2896 02:50:55.239 --> 02:50:57.360 and it's not to say that they all didn't, but 2897 02:50:57.440 --> 02:50:59.600 it was just at that point of time with that 2898 02:51:00.280 --> 02:51:07.559 and guy and so. But for some reason, and I 2899 02:51:07.600 --> 02:51:12.559 thought I attributed to it's like, Okay, we don't you know, 2900 02:51:12.559 --> 02:51:14.680 know kind of what you do. But if you say that, 2901 02:51:15.280 --> 02:51:17.120 you know you're direct support medic here. 2902 02:51:17.479 --> 02:51:19.319 Yeah, So it's kind of kind of kind of weird 2903 02:51:19.360 --> 02:51:20.360 out of curiosity. 2904 02:51:20.520 --> 02:51:28.200 How come the Omegas or the Seals needed attached medics 2905 02:51:28.200 --> 02:51:28.959 when they have their. 2906 02:51:28.799 --> 02:51:33.239 Own cormant Ah, they didn't at the time. So that's 2907 02:51:33.239 --> 02:51:36.159 actually a good point. So all these units were growing 2908 02:51:36.200 --> 02:51:37.959 at the time. So again, like I told you, I 2909 02:51:38.079 --> 02:51:40.319 was medic I think I think five right, And that 2910 02:51:40.440 --> 02:51:43.559 means like on the manning they're authorized five right, because 2911 02:51:43.559 --> 02:51:47.719 they're they're manning documents and at the time they were 2912 02:51:47.799 --> 02:51:53.079 using pjs. So the Assault Force I think was all 2913 02:51:53.200 --> 02:51:56.079 using pgs at the time. It was actually one of 2914 02:51:56.200 --> 02:51:59.159 our guys who later went to them who built their 2915 02:51:59.200 --> 02:52:02.680 med section and I think he got he was from 2916 02:52:02.760 --> 02:52:07.079 I think Marsk and he took a bunch of Marsac 2917 02:52:07.159 --> 02:52:12.200 Corman's and built their med section before they had medics. 2918 02:52:12.319 --> 02:52:16.000 But they were clinic medics. And I could be wrong 2919 02:52:16.000 --> 02:52:18.479 in this, but that was my experience signing in because 2920 02:52:18.520 --> 02:52:22.200 they had medics. I remember they had a female, a 2921 02:52:22.280 --> 02:52:26.200 male and the ones that I worked with, but they 2922 02:52:26.319 --> 02:52:28.440 worked at like so they were they worked at the 2923 02:52:28.479 --> 02:52:31.719 Jaybad clinic. They deployed Ford, but they worked at the clinic. 2924 02:52:31.760 --> 02:52:32.520 That was interesting. 2925 02:52:32.879 --> 02:52:36.639 I will have to ask somebody from ye from them, 2926 02:52:36.680 --> 02:52:39.840 because I mean Corman could go through buds and then 2927 02:52:40.280 --> 02:52:42.719 and that well that was the problem. 2928 02:52:42.840 --> 02:52:46.840 That was what I was told. If you were going 2929 02:52:46.879 --> 02:52:49.719 there to assess, it was kind of like beneath you. 2930 02:52:50.159 --> 02:52:52.879 So it's much different than what I've heard of. Again, 2931 02:52:52.959 --> 02:52:55.399 like so, I've never been part of either of those 2932 02:52:55.399 --> 02:52:58.200 two organizations. H but what I had heard, it's much 2933 02:52:58.280 --> 02:53:01.280 more socially acceptable for an eighteen Delta to go be 2934 02:53:01.319 --> 02:53:05.600 a direct support medic for Delta, then a seal Corman 2935 02:53:06.000 --> 02:53:08.920 to go be a Corman there. 2936 02:53:09.040 --> 02:53:11.360 I don't know, Oh, I get it. 2937 02:53:11.399 --> 02:53:13.319 I so, if they're going to assess, they're going to 2938 02:53:13.360 --> 02:53:14.360 be a so. 2939 02:53:14.079 --> 02:53:16.959 So, same way with a condultas if they assessed, if 2940 02:53:16.959 --> 02:53:19.920 they go through selection, then they're then they're not really 2941 02:53:20.559 --> 02:53:23.479 I'm sure then their primary role is a shooter, yet 2942 02:53:23.520 --> 02:53:27.040 they're so so, they're not necessarily part of the the medic. 2943 02:53:27.120 --> 02:53:28.280 They go through two different tracks. 2944 02:53:28.319 --> 02:53:30.399 I get it, I get it. That makes sense. Okay, 2945 02:53:30.719 --> 02:53:33.120 So our organization was just no different. 2946 02:53:33.440 --> 02:53:39.159 So they so so they hadn't set up any corman 2947 02:53:39.280 --> 02:53:42.959 that that screened, any seal corman that screened. They were 2948 02:53:43.000 --> 02:53:48.159 a shooter first, so they wanted some sort of direct support. 2949 02:53:49.159 --> 02:53:50.479 They weren't. They weren't going to do. 2950 02:53:50.639 --> 02:53:53.399 They wouldn't. What was told to me is they won't 2951 02:53:53.440 --> 02:53:55.440 even come screen to be a medic. 2952 02:53:55.600 --> 02:53:58.399 Right then they screened to be a shooter. 2953 02:53:58.520 --> 02:54:02.360 Exactly, which is much different because a lot of delta's 2954 02:54:02.440 --> 02:54:07.280 really enjoy I guess, and there's not to say that 2955 02:54:07.280 --> 02:54:10.959 there's some that don't. Right, But like my TL was 2956 02:54:11.000 --> 02:54:15.440 a prior corman who was then a shooter. So he was, 2957 02:54:15.520 --> 02:54:17.920 but he was a shooter, right, he knew, he knew 2958 02:54:17.920 --> 02:54:19.600 how to be a medic. He was a little bit aided, 2959 02:54:19.680 --> 02:54:24.920 but he knew how to be a medic, but so 2960 02:54:26.360 --> 02:54:31.479 Bragg had a fully functional med section and could support themselves. 2961 02:54:32.079 --> 02:54:35.280 They relied on augments, which is why that makes sense, Okay, 2962 02:54:35.360 --> 02:54:38.319 otherwise there would be no reason to task right to 2963 02:54:38.399 --> 02:54:39.559 fill their medic bullets. 2964 02:54:39.680 --> 02:54:42.079 Yeah, I mean, I I don't know why in my mind, 2965 02:54:42.520 --> 02:54:45.559 Like if an eighteen delta doesn't screen for direct support 2966 02:54:45.639 --> 02:54:50.639 but does actually does the long walk, they're not even 2967 02:54:50.680 --> 02:54:53.200 though they still have that medical knowledge, their first and 2968 02:54:53.239 --> 02:54:57.760 primary mission is as a shooter, right, So same same 2969 02:54:57.840 --> 02:54:58.520 with damn Neck. 2970 02:54:58.559 --> 02:54:59.879 I'm sure that. 2971 02:55:00.520 --> 02:55:03.600 Yeah, And I think they've all offered them positions. So 2972 02:55:05.399 --> 02:55:09.200 I've been told, like if you go to the brag 2973 02:55:09.239 --> 02:55:13.239 based organization and you don't make it, there's a pretty 2974 02:55:13.239 --> 02:55:15.760 good chance if you want a job and you are 2975 02:55:15.760 --> 02:55:19.399 in eighteen delta that you can be a direct support. 2976 02:55:19.479 --> 02:55:20.040 Makes sense. 2977 02:55:22.000 --> 02:55:25.760 Their organization, I think, is the same, but no one 2978 02:55:26.559 --> 02:55:28.280 is willing to take it. They want to go and 2979 02:55:28.479 --> 02:55:33.440 I guess screen again, our organization we have the opportunity 2980 02:55:33.479 --> 02:55:40.680 to because a lot of those guys are medical from 2981 02:55:40.760 --> 02:55:46.719 whatever services they are. But we've at least in my 2982 02:55:46.840 --> 02:55:53.680 tenure there for six years, you knew that that wasn't 2983 02:55:53.719 --> 02:55:58.479 their passion. They wanted to do that, and so that 2984 02:55:59.840 --> 02:56:02.200 they would screen. A lot of them would screen, and 2985 02:56:02.200 --> 02:56:04.680 then you would just figure out that they they were 2986 02:56:04.760 --> 02:56:08.120 better off to go back and track and go be 2987 02:56:08.159 --> 02:56:10.879 a team sergeant or go be whatever they're going to do, 2988 02:56:10.920 --> 02:56:14.440 because you know what I mean, like all of the 2989 02:56:14.520 --> 02:56:18.399 medical people went up there with every intention and you 2990 02:56:18.440 --> 02:56:21.600 have There's something that I used to say, it's you 2991 02:56:21.760 --> 02:56:25.079 have to be comfortable being the man standing next to 2992 02:56:25.120 --> 02:56:28.200 the man, right, and you got to know your role 2993 02:56:28.319 --> 02:56:30.959 and be comfortable in that role, right. And some people 2994 02:56:31.920 --> 02:56:34.600 aren't comfortable in that role. And it's always like, well, 2995 02:56:35.280 --> 02:56:37.760 it's the easy foot in the door. I'm going to 2996 02:56:37.840 --> 02:56:41.120 go screen to be medical, and then once I figure 2997 02:56:41.159 --> 02:56:43.120 it all out, they'll get you know, then I'm going 2998 02:56:43.200 --> 02:56:46.000 to go and you can pretty much all those folks 2999 02:56:46.000 --> 02:56:50.360 are weeded out because they'll usually tell you yeah, yeah, 3000 02:56:50.399 --> 02:56:52.959 and it's part of the process. It's figuring that out. 3001 02:56:52.799 --> 02:56:54.520 And they don't want to put that investment in somebody 3002 02:56:54.559 --> 02:56:57.600 if they're just then they want to go to you know, 3003 02:56:58.079 --> 02:56:58.879 be the guys. 3004 02:56:58.920 --> 02:56:59.120 Yeah. 3005 02:56:59.360 --> 02:57:02.879 Yeah, So that's that's that's I think a key difference 3006 02:57:02.920 --> 02:57:07.680 between the three organizations and so so yeah, so yeah, 3007 02:57:08.000 --> 02:57:11.319 getting so so back on track. So we all get there, 3008 02:57:11.719 --> 02:57:15.479 we get assigned our teams, and so I ended up 3009 02:57:15.520 --> 02:57:18.120 back in you know, back back going back to Afghanistan, 3010 02:57:19.079 --> 02:57:21.319 ended up going back to a Sadabad. I'd been there 3011 02:57:21.360 --> 02:57:24.840 before doing my round robins of payments to folks, and 3012 02:57:24.879 --> 02:57:27.399 so I'd already experienced. I kind of knew the landscape 3013 02:57:28.680 --> 02:57:32.200 and so, but never really knew that that bait, that 3014 02:57:34.000 --> 02:57:37.040 concrete building, what that was. You know, it's it's it's 3015 02:57:37.079 --> 02:57:40.200 a very different struggle. There's like one building that's like 3016 02:57:40.239 --> 02:57:42.879 one of these things are not like the other, and 3017 02:57:42.959 --> 02:57:46.319 so and so getting to work there on the compound 3018 02:57:46.399 --> 02:57:51.719 there and so I get there and right away I 3019 02:57:51.760 --> 02:57:59.120 can say that was instantly like integrated well. And and 3020 02:57:59.239 --> 02:58:03.120 a lot of guys do and integrate well. And I 3021 02:58:03.159 --> 02:58:05.040 think we can talk a little bit about that. There's 3022 02:58:05.040 --> 02:58:11.360 some there's there's some history with that organization and just 3023 02:58:13.079 --> 02:58:16.440 outsiders either are you talking about the organization or the 3024 02:58:16.520 --> 02:58:21.159 organization are parting? Okay, So so yeah, so being over 3025 02:58:21.159 --> 02:58:24.319 there and then outsiders coming in and either something happened. 3026 02:58:24.360 --> 02:58:26.680 I mean, you just look at the media. I don't 3027 02:58:26.680 --> 02:58:29.840 need to talk about the scenarios. But and so I 3028 02:58:29.879 --> 02:58:33.959 didn't experience that. I had a great team leader, phenomenal guy. 3029 02:58:34.760 --> 02:58:37.840 At the time. I was now an E seven. I 3030 02:58:37.879 --> 02:58:40.719 actually got selected for E eight on the trip. He 3031 02:58:40.840 --> 02:58:44.360 was a E six, which is really weird. That's the 3032 02:58:44.399 --> 02:58:48.120 things the Navy because even though I was like an 3033 02:58:48.120 --> 02:58:52.799 E seven selected for EA, I was kind of like 3034 02:58:52.840 --> 02:58:55.399 the equivalent of a Navy E four because I wasn't 3035 02:58:55.399 --> 02:58:58.879 a chief, right, Like that's some weird shit, Like I 3036 02:58:58.920 --> 02:59:01.360 don't know what it is with these little chief boxes 3037 02:59:01.399 --> 02:59:03.559 and ship, Like, I don't know. I got a brother's 3038 02:59:03.559 --> 02:59:05.280 and navy. So my brother is a nuke in the 3039 02:59:05.360 --> 02:59:08.079 Navy and an officer. He was enlisted and became an officer. 3040 02:59:10.040 --> 02:59:14.479 But for some reason, there's like I don't know what 3041 02:59:14.600 --> 02:59:16.799 it is with the Navy and the chief thing. 3042 02:59:17.079 --> 02:59:21.680 Like it's it's it's second tier royalty, right, because the 3043 02:59:21.680 --> 02:59:25.760 officers are royalty. They have their own mess deck on 3044 02:59:25.760 --> 02:59:29.520 on the ship, and then there's also the chiefs mess 3045 02:59:29.879 --> 02:59:32.879 on the ship and then all the all the uh 3046 02:59:33.399 --> 02:59:34.440 you know, Uh. 3047 02:59:34.680 --> 02:59:40.159 So it's institution. It's institutional elitism. Yes, yes, so it's 3048 02:59:40.239 --> 02:59:43.760 it's breeding it. Yes, yes, that's interesting. Yeah, it's like 3049 02:59:43.799 --> 02:59:45.799 what you try to weed out, but they I mean 3050 02:59:45.840 --> 02:59:47.040 they wear different uniforms. 3051 02:59:47.200 --> 02:59:47.719 Yeah, you know. 3052 02:59:47.840 --> 02:59:50.319 Then then yeah, I guess you get a stripe on 3053 02:59:50.360 --> 02:59:51.159 your leg when you're. 3054 02:59:51.000 --> 02:59:53.719 In the army. So yeah, I mean that going for you. 3055 02:59:54.000 --> 02:59:57.680 Yeah, yeah, it's it's you know it all it all 3056 02:59:57.719 --> 03:00:00.639 goes back to, you know, a ship being its own 3057 03:00:00.719 --> 03:00:05.000 kingdom with the you know, the the captain of the 3058 03:00:05.040 --> 03:00:09.760 ship being the king or queen. And then then you 3059 03:00:09.840 --> 03:00:13.319 have your officers and offscer country and everybody like jumping 3060 03:00:13.360 --> 03:00:16.280 to the side when the officers are walking down the hallway. 3061 03:00:16.319 --> 03:00:19.680 And and like I said, there are different there are 3062 03:00:19.719 --> 03:00:23.200 different levels of chow halls. The ascer's chow hall which 3063 03:00:23.239 --> 03:00:25.280 is very nice. There was the chief chow hall, which 3064 03:00:25.319 --> 03:00:29.000 is nice, you know, just not a little bit nicer 3065 03:00:29.239 --> 03:00:31.559 or a little less nice. And then you have the 3066 03:00:31.639 --> 03:00:34.719 enlisted and we're down there eating you know, well, I 3067 03:00:34.719 --> 03:00:36.799 mean great food pants it in an adobo and you 3068 03:00:36.840 --> 03:00:37.600 know and everything. 3069 03:00:37.639 --> 03:00:41.479 But yeah, so here was another thing that I think 3070 03:00:41.479 --> 03:00:45.440 that helped me out as far as integration. There was 3071 03:00:45.479 --> 03:00:49.559 this medication at the time called what was it called, 3072 03:00:49.600 --> 03:00:51.479 I think it was it was Factor seven A I think. 3073 03:00:51.639 --> 03:00:56.479 So it's basically medication that helped with clotting if you know, 3074 03:00:56.600 --> 03:00:59.000 if you were shot. It was extremely expensive. I think 3075 03:00:59.040 --> 03:01:01.239 it was like eighteen hundred dollars a while, and hardly 3076 03:01:01.239 --> 03:01:04.680 anybody was carrying it, especially not point of injury folks. 3077 03:01:05.319 --> 03:01:10.920 And so, and I forgot a lot of the components 3078 03:01:10.920 --> 03:01:14.799 of it. But essentially, like when I was learning about 3079 03:01:14.799 --> 03:01:17.120 a guy who went back through met refresher, so part 3080 03:01:17.120 --> 03:01:19.120 of being a you know, a Sochomo or eighteen delta 3081 03:01:19.200 --> 03:01:21.079 or seal, a PJ whatever, you have to do your 3082 03:01:21.079 --> 03:01:24.399 meta refreshers every two years. I had heard people talking 3083 03:01:24.440 --> 03:01:25.840 about it, and I was like, hey, I want to 3084 03:01:25.840 --> 03:01:28.079 be carrying that because if something happens to these guys, 3085 03:01:28.079 --> 03:01:29.399 I want to be able to do it. So I 3086 03:01:29.440 --> 03:01:32.719 told our docs, and so part of the cool thing 3087 03:01:32.760 --> 03:01:37.000 about that place is the docs are like, Okay, well, 3088 03:01:37.040 --> 03:01:41.760 if you want to have it, then you need to 3089 03:01:42.120 --> 03:01:44.760 educate us on it, and then we'll write the protocol. 3090 03:01:44.760 --> 03:01:46.040 But we want to make sure that you know how 3091 03:01:46.079 --> 03:01:51.479 to use it safe and effectively and and that you're 3092 03:01:51.520 --> 03:01:54.440 not going to hurt somebody. And so I basically had 3093 03:01:54.479 --> 03:01:57.639 to do all this research and then essentially the docs 3094 03:01:57.639 --> 03:01:59.639 wrote a protocol and I was able to have it 3095 03:01:59.680 --> 03:02:03.399 and and carry it on every mission. And I told 3096 03:02:03.440 --> 03:02:06.159 it and like I said, my my team leader was 3097 03:02:06.200 --> 03:02:08.200 a corman, so he had kind of told the guys 3098 03:02:08.239 --> 03:02:11.000 and he's like, hey man, this guy actually like got 3099 03:02:11.120 --> 03:02:13.600 us this like latest ship that's out there, and he's 3100 03:02:13.600 --> 03:02:14.959 one of the only medics carrying it. 3101 03:02:15.559 --> 03:02:17.600 And so they had thought that was pretty. 3102 03:02:19.280 --> 03:02:22.159 Pretty forward thinking and they appreciated that, and so I 3103 03:02:22.159 --> 03:02:24.799 helped that. I think that helped me with my integration. 3104 03:02:24.959 --> 03:02:28.440 Like I said, like I like it's as an augment, 3105 03:02:28.559 --> 03:02:31.399 like like even like the room assignments, right, Like. 3106 03:02:33.120 --> 03:02:34.959 It's like it's like the chowel, right. 3107 03:02:34.840 --> 03:02:37.840 But my room was right next to their rooms, all 3108 03:02:37.840 --> 03:02:39.719 in order, so some of the guys, like some of 3109 03:02:39.719 --> 03:02:42.520 the opguments were down the hall the other rooms. Yeah, 3110 03:02:42.559 --> 03:02:46.520 and so you know I had gotten the one of 3111 03:02:46.520 --> 03:02:48.559 the prime real estate and ice rooms and stuff. So 3112 03:02:48.639 --> 03:02:51.120 you know, just all these little subtleties that they're like 3113 03:02:53.399 --> 03:02:57.239 And I'll tell you that's the weird thing of my career. It's, 3114 03:02:57.280 --> 03:02:59.120 like I said, like I described, like I was a 3115 03:02:59.159 --> 03:03:02.680 medic for all these different people, like going and integrating 3116 03:03:02.719 --> 03:03:05.680 with the Rangers, and then this ODA and then this 3117 03:03:05.920 --> 03:03:09.040 io cell and then this and now I'm here and 3118 03:03:09.120 --> 03:03:11.399 so you you kind of got to learn how to 3119 03:03:12.479 --> 03:03:13.760 build rapport. 3120 03:03:13.520 --> 03:03:16.440 With your civil affairs paying off, right. 3121 03:03:16.280 --> 03:03:19.120 And so it's like, hey guys, like here's you know, 3122 03:03:19.239 --> 03:03:21.360 and help people. It's it's always like and the other 3123 03:03:21.399 --> 03:03:26.200 thing is build and do like help out right. Yeah, 3124 03:03:27.239 --> 03:03:30.399 it's you know, just do things without being asked. It's 3125 03:03:30.440 --> 03:03:32.440 a huge like it's a it's actually a skill. I 3126 03:03:32.479 --> 03:03:35.799 actually look for people character trait, you know, just the 3127 03:03:35.840 --> 03:03:38.200 ability to to just see something you need done and 3128 03:03:38.239 --> 03:03:40.200 do it and then don't have to wait to be 3129 03:03:40.280 --> 03:03:44.799 asked and so so yeah, so I you know, instantly 3130 03:03:44.879 --> 03:03:49.600 hit the ground and and so things ramped up pretty 3131 03:03:49.680 --> 03:03:52.760 quick there. We had done. You know, the our team leader, 3132 03:03:53.239 --> 03:03:56.319 I think was being observed. There was a senior chief there, 3133 03:03:56.319 --> 03:03:59.760 but he kind of just set back and kind of 3134 03:03:59.840 --> 03:04:03.639 just I think he was mentoring him, and but he 3135 03:04:03.719 --> 03:04:06.200 was kind of he actually assessed us. So he was 3136 03:04:06.239 --> 03:04:08.319 actually assessing us. He would take us on hikes. If 3137 03:04:08.319 --> 03:04:09.879 you've ever been to Abad, he would take us as 3138 03:04:09.879 --> 03:04:11.120 a thing called bull run. 3139 03:04:11.680 --> 03:04:14.360 Yeah, and I remember I totally forgot about bull run. 3140 03:04:14.440 --> 03:04:18.879 Yeah, so and for time and oh man, I'll tell 3141 03:04:18.920 --> 03:04:21.639 you so I already told you my gear was shit, 3142 03:04:22.680 --> 03:04:23.799 but I got some good gear. 3143 03:04:24.200 --> 03:04:25.559 But what I didn't know is. 3144 03:04:27.159 --> 03:04:29.520 At least these seals, I don't want to say that 3145 03:04:29.600 --> 03:04:32.719 every all of them did it. They actually their ideal 3146 03:04:32.840 --> 03:04:36.479 of a basic load and the armies traditional or the 3147 03:04:36.639 --> 03:04:40.440 SF of what you carry for ammunition and weaponry is 3148 03:04:40.479 --> 03:04:44.000 a little bit different. So like so for me, like 3149 03:04:44.079 --> 03:04:47.520 anywhere I go, i'm you know, you train, train like 3150 03:04:47.559 --> 03:04:51.319 you fight, right, So, and I was trained a basic 3151 03:04:51.360 --> 03:04:53.680 load of six magazines and one in the gun, and 3152 03:04:53.719 --> 03:04:57.879 then you have a side arm and you have magazines, 3153 03:04:57.959 --> 03:05:00.200 and then you have obviously your water, your radius or 3154 03:05:01.120 --> 03:05:06.559 an extra bat you know, extra battery, your nods and 3155 03:05:06.559 --> 03:05:09.840 and then me I carried at the time, I kind 3156 03:05:09.840 --> 03:05:11.879 of divorced my AID bag a long time ago and 3157 03:05:12.280 --> 03:05:16.920 created a march belt essentially a battle belt system that 3158 03:05:17.040 --> 03:05:20.760 everything was configured on my kit or in this so 3159 03:05:20.799 --> 03:05:23.639 I didn't have to carry an AID bag. And what 3160 03:05:23.680 --> 03:05:27.280 I learned is I was way too heavy because you know, 3161 03:05:27.360 --> 03:05:29.559 I'm carrying an IN four. These guys are carrying in 3162 03:05:29.600 --> 03:05:35.159 P seven, right. You know I've had I've got seven magazines, 3163 03:05:35.399 --> 03:05:38.639 they've got three and one in the gun. They don't 3164 03:05:38.680 --> 03:05:41.520 carry side arms. They're like, and so I had to learn. 3165 03:05:41.600 --> 03:05:44.920 It's like and I you know, luckily enough they were 3166 03:05:45.520 --> 03:05:47.319 willing to teach me and edue ga me. They're like, hey, 3167 03:05:47.319 --> 03:05:51.159 it's too slow, don't transition move Let somebody else shoot them. 3168 03:05:51.200 --> 03:05:53.440 Just all these little TTPs that they were picking up 3169 03:05:53.479 --> 03:05:57.719 and learning because I think a lot of the tactics 3170 03:05:57.719 --> 03:06:01.040 were changing at that time frame, because they were losing 3171 03:06:01.079 --> 03:06:03.680 a lot of guys I think in Iraq due to 3172 03:06:03.840 --> 03:06:08.440 kind of like the old room clearing TPP. And so 3173 03:06:09.319 --> 03:06:12.399 they were instantly sharing that with me. They were like, hey, 3174 03:06:12.399 --> 03:06:14.959 this is how we're gonna This is how you need 3175 03:06:15.000 --> 03:06:16.879 to learn how to clear a room. Now you don't 3176 03:06:17.440 --> 03:06:19.559 do this, you know his this is not hostage. 3177 03:06:19.639 --> 03:06:21.200 There's no hostage in the room, right. 3178 03:06:21.280 --> 03:06:24.079 And so and for me, like that was new to me. 3179 03:06:24.200 --> 03:06:29.319 Like I had no formal CQB training. I had some 3180 03:06:29.680 --> 03:06:33.040 just unit level stuff from having rangers and stuff teach 3181 03:06:33.079 --> 03:06:35.719 me that were my team sergeant. But as far as 3182 03:06:35.760 --> 03:06:40.639 a formal like a classroom, you know, you would go 3183 03:06:40.680 --> 03:06:45.479 to this course and complete this course like a sephardikers 3184 03:06:45.719 --> 03:06:48.360 you know, any of those kind of courses. I didn't 3185 03:06:48.399 --> 03:06:50.799 have any of that. So essentially it was like the 3186 03:06:51.159 --> 03:06:53.760 kind of they gave me that training and sure I 3187 03:06:53.799 --> 03:06:57.079 knew what I was doing, and so that was you know, 3188 03:06:57.120 --> 03:07:00.920 again like they didn't have to do that, right, and 3189 03:07:01.000 --> 03:07:03.159 there's probably some that wouldn't do that. They would just 3190 03:07:03.200 --> 03:07:04.760 be like, Okay, well, if you don't know what the 3191 03:07:04.799 --> 03:07:08.200 fuck you're doing, then you probably shouldn't be here. And so, 3192 03:07:08.520 --> 03:07:13.040 you know, I truly appreciate that aspect of that, and 3193 03:07:13.079 --> 03:07:15.000 you know, I still communicate with a lot of those 3194 03:07:15.000 --> 03:07:17.920 guys to this day. But so, you know, fast forward, 3195 03:07:17.920 --> 03:07:22.879 they make sure good to go and we start getting operations, 3196 03:07:22.920 --> 03:07:28.079 so you know, we start having you know, targets that 3197 03:07:28.120 --> 03:07:33.639 are actionable, and I think we did some small stuff 3198 03:07:35.399 --> 03:07:38.000 here and there, but then the main stuff started happening 3199 03:07:38.040 --> 03:07:41.879 around December of two thousand and nine. And there's a 3200 03:07:41.920 --> 03:07:45.760 lot of interesting events that happened in December two and nine, 3201 03:07:45.760 --> 03:07:46.399 at least for me. 3202 03:07:47.600 --> 03:07:50.079 And so the first one was. 3203 03:07:50.159 --> 03:07:55.079 Had we had a pretty good target. Happened right before Christmas. 3204 03:07:55.079 --> 03:07:57.280 I think it was like on the twenty fourth, so 3205 03:07:57.319 --> 03:08:02.360 it's like right, you know, Chris, So I don't know 3206 03:08:02.360 --> 03:08:05.319 if it was the twenty third because obviously operating period 3207 03:08:05.319 --> 03:08:09.159 of Darkness or if it was twenty third I think 3208 03:08:09.159 --> 03:08:12.520 it was. We end up hitting it on Christmas, but 3209 03:08:13.319 --> 03:08:17.719 pretty big target. And and so as the me, so 3210 03:08:18.159 --> 03:08:21.280 like my role, like the medics job is not to 3211 03:08:21.319 --> 03:08:23.959 get shot right right. It's kind of like the team leader. 3212 03:08:24.000 --> 03:08:26.040 And I have to explain this to people sometimes. Like 3213 03:08:26.600 --> 03:08:29.920 the medics, I always wondered that, and I always question 3214 03:08:30.040 --> 03:08:31.840 that about the range, Like I was never in range 3215 03:08:31.879 --> 03:08:33.920 of battalion, but I hear these stories of the medics 3216 03:08:33.920 --> 03:08:36.159 in the stack, and like I was been the number 3217 03:08:36.200 --> 03:08:39.760 one in two and I'm like, why, Yeah, what was. 3218 03:08:39.760 --> 03:08:42.799 Their plan if they if they went down, if you 3219 03:08:42.879 --> 03:08:45.840 got hit. Yeah, So my. 3220 03:08:45.959 --> 03:08:49.760 Job was to essentially be an interior blocking position. So 3221 03:08:49.879 --> 03:08:57.200 basically they clear a compound right outside that door. And 3222 03:08:57.280 --> 03:09:02.399 so that's what happened on that house, you know. Really, 3223 03:09:02.440 --> 03:09:06.879 so this is we are in Kunar Providence. Those mountains 3224 03:09:06.879 --> 03:09:11.760 are very relentless, like so you know, I don't know 3225 03:09:11.760 --> 03:09:15.000 how long the office was to walk in there and 3226 03:09:15.040 --> 03:09:19.159 carry those fucking ladders and everything and all the stuff 3227 03:09:19.159 --> 03:09:22.399 that you know about. And and we have obviously our 3228 03:09:23.079 --> 03:09:27.440 folks from the agency with us, and then our team 3229 03:09:27.600 --> 03:09:31.799 of of Afghans that are that are that do these 3230 03:09:31.840 --> 03:09:38.840 type of operations, and so so we get straight set 3231 03:09:38.920 --> 03:09:44.000 up on the the compound. There's like a little low 3232 03:09:44.000 --> 03:09:45.799 wall in front of it. It's kind of like this 3233 03:09:45.959 --> 03:09:50.799 compound structure that's going right up. It's like we walked 3234 03:09:50.799 --> 03:09:53.639 in through the water, like through the through the river, 3235 03:09:54.440 --> 03:09:57.239 and then there's houses and then there's like a huge 3236 03:09:58.319 --> 03:10:02.159 like cliff and it'll come into play later because there's 3237 03:10:02.159 --> 03:10:05.600 these fighters that come in after. But essentially we set 3238 03:10:05.680 --> 03:10:08.639 up on this compound and as soon as we get 3239 03:10:08.719 --> 03:10:15.520 up on this wall, the on the terrace, it's like 3240 03:10:15.559 --> 03:10:18.360 a three story or maybe a two story structure, maybe 3241 03:10:18.399 --> 03:10:22.120 it's just two stories, we start seeing heads pop up. 3242 03:10:22.440 --> 03:10:25.520 And as soon as those heads pop up, that's obviously 3243 03:10:25.559 --> 03:10:27.920 when shots start getting fired. 3244 03:10:28.840 --> 03:10:31.000 And so. 3245 03:10:32.680 --> 03:10:35.239 As soon as that happens, my job is already know 3246 03:10:35.280 --> 03:10:36.920 where I'm supposed to be. You know, we have our 3247 03:10:37.360 --> 03:10:40.479 building or our grid reference system, and I know I'm 3248 03:10:40.479 --> 03:10:43.760 supposed to go to building the ten series building and 3249 03:10:43.840 --> 03:10:49.000 sit right here. And so as soon as I get 3250 03:10:49.040 --> 03:10:54.760 in position, I see two guys walking and so I 3251 03:10:55.000 --> 03:11:00.440 end up shooting both of those guys and they finish. 3252 03:11:00.559 --> 03:11:03.360 You know, this stuff, these compounds get cleared in like 3253 03:11:03.760 --> 03:11:06.280 it's like it's like minutes. 3254 03:11:06.360 --> 03:11:06.639 It's not. 3255 03:11:06.799 --> 03:11:08.760 This is not like you're staying there all day. Yeah, 3256 03:11:09.280 --> 03:11:11.000 I mean you've done this work, so you know, it's 3257 03:11:11.040 --> 03:11:13.959 like super fast. And so it was my first experience though, 3258 03:11:14.000 --> 03:11:16.440 so for me it's like it's it's burned in me. 3259 03:11:16.479 --> 03:11:16.879 It's a lot. 3260 03:11:17.040 --> 03:11:19.239 Yeah, it's it's it's like a lot of things you 3261 03:11:19.280 --> 03:11:23.920 remember your first right. So, and so come to find out, 3262 03:11:24.120 --> 03:11:26.639 like you know, everything's done. You know, they've kind of 3263 03:11:26.680 --> 03:11:29.040 got all the kids kind of crawled up and you 3264 03:11:29.079 --> 03:11:31.760 know they're kind of keeping them them calm, and you know, 3265 03:11:33.600 --> 03:11:36.239 people are crying. It's all the typical stuff that happened. 3266 03:11:36.280 --> 03:11:39.040 Women are crying and screaming and kids are upset, and 3267 03:11:39.079 --> 03:11:43.159 so you're kind of like putting them in different rooms and. 3268 03:11:45.000 --> 03:11:46.280 They go over and in. 3269 03:11:46.360 --> 03:11:49.479 The one of the guys that I shot in up 3270 03:11:49.520 --> 03:11:54.159 being the targets. You know, it's like it's pretty cool 3271 03:11:54.200 --> 03:11:56.200 for me. You know, it's like, oh man, I just 3272 03:11:56.639 --> 03:11:58.680 I just got one of the guys on the target list. 3273 03:11:58.719 --> 03:12:00.760 So so. 3274 03:12:03.200 --> 03:12:12.520 Actually know what that's right right before we right after 3275 03:12:12.760 --> 03:12:16.200 that those two guys, we started taking guys. That's where 3276 03:12:16.239 --> 03:12:19.600 the cliff comes into place. They started kind of maneuvering 3277 03:12:19.639 --> 03:12:21.239 a whole bunch of people. So there's a lot of 3278 03:12:21.280 --> 03:12:25.120 cast that was called in, so that all the cast 3279 03:12:25.239 --> 03:12:26.959 is is kind of coming in on. 3280 03:12:26.879 --> 03:12:29.200 This this j tax calling in the hilltop. 3281 03:12:29.719 --> 03:12:32.040 I think some of the guys find a bunch of 3282 03:12:33.319 --> 03:12:35.280 I don't know if it's like fertilizer, what it is 3283 03:12:35.319 --> 03:12:39.000 like bomb making material. So he's one of the one 3284 03:12:39.040 --> 03:12:40.840 of the guys that is kind of rigging all that 3285 03:12:41.000 --> 03:12:44.120 up to kind of a bit bit later as we're 3286 03:12:44.159 --> 03:12:49.600 kind of moving off the objective. But so then they're 3287 03:12:49.639 --> 03:12:52.520 corralling the kids, they're doing I guess all the you know, 3288 03:12:52.600 --> 03:12:54.559 taking all the s SC photos, and that's when we 3289 03:12:54.639 --> 03:12:57.239 kind of figured out, oh, this guy's him, and so 3290 03:12:57.840 --> 03:13:02.879 I'm like bumped up and but so it's kind of 3291 03:13:02.920 --> 03:13:08.000 a I guess a great target, the guy that you're 3292 03:13:08.079 --> 03:13:12.680 actually going for, you actually got him. No one else. 3293 03:13:13.760 --> 03:13:18.760 People who are actually maneuvering, they're kind of eliminated. We 3294 03:13:18.959 --> 03:13:21.600 find like and I still have some of this stuff, 3295 03:13:22.479 --> 03:13:26.959 some of these like the they're these black like embroideryed 3296 03:13:27.719 --> 03:13:32.479 head I have one like hanging in my office and 3297 03:13:32.479 --> 03:13:35.520 and Soldier's I D cards, So we actually find like 3298 03:13:35.559 --> 03:13:41.040 soldiers ID cards, US Soldier's I D cards and some 3299 03:13:41.479 --> 03:13:45.000 US uh you know in four magazines Green Tip route, 3300 03:13:45.040 --> 03:13:47.920 you know, so we actually find stuff where these guys 3301 03:13:47.959 --> 03:13:56.719 actually they were involved with with hurting US soldiers and 3302 03:13:56.879 --> 03:13:58.440 so great mission. 3303 03:13:58.479 --> 03:13:59.120 Great target. 3304 03:14:00.440 --> 03:14:03.239 We kind of walk out, you know, the long walk out, 3305 03:14:06.079 --> 03:14:10.399 and we get back and so we're doing you know 3306 03:14:10.600 --> 03:14:14.479 all that, the the additional ssee stuff and then just 3307 03:14:14.559 --> 03:14:20.040 kind of nothing big and then it's Christmas, right, yeah, 3308 03:14:20.040 --> 03:14:24.520 you know, and so so we kind of have like 3309 03:14:24.600 --> 03:14:31.879 a down day and then the next day another target popped. 3310 03:14:31.879 --> 03:14:34.200 So you know, you're kind of they're triggered by something, 3311 03:14:34.319 --> 03:14:37.719 you know, something either human ors again is obviously triggering 3312 03:14:37.760 --> 03:14:40.879 these things to pop. And so the next day we 3313 03:14:40.959 --> 03:14:43.159 get another one pop. So it's really it was kind 3314 03:14:43.159 --> 03:14:44.719 of odd because you got to think about it's like, 3315 03:14:45.200 --> 03:14:49.040 so sitting there since I think we get in there 3316 03:14:49.079 --> 03:14:53.799 mid October, but now in December we're actually getting some 3317 03:14:53.840 --> 03:14:56.840 good targets. So there's a lot of like waiting. Yeah, 3318 03:14:56.879 --> 03:14:59.120 you're just kind of waiting for something to go. You're 3319 03:14:59.159 --> 03:15:02.280 building conn up. That's that's where I learned about connap parties. 3320 03:15:02.879 --> 03:15:05.520 So before I had never done this stuff. This was 3321 03:15:05.559 --> 03:15:08.360 like we had a for every one of these there 3322 03:15:08.440 --> 03:15:15.239 was a fully done Connat package already done. So so 3323 03:15:15.319 --> 03:15:21.920 the the next right after Christmas, another one popped. So 3324 03:15:21.959 --> 03:15:25.040 we initially go into planning and getting everything going and 3325 03:15:25.079 --> 03:15:28.959 coordinating and figuring out it's again, we're going to do 3326 03:15:29.040 --> 03:15:31.120 like an off set drive in and then do an 3327 03:15:31.159 --> 03:15:36.799 off set and walk in. And I have the same response, 3328 03:15:36.920 --> 03:15:40.079 same task. You know, nothing changed, right. My job is 3329 03:15:40.120 --> 03:15:43.000 to kind of I think it was me in the 3330 03:15:43.120 --> 03:15:45.479 turp for some re I think the urp was always 3331 03:15:45.479 --> 03:15:49.000 positioned with me in the beginning. They would pull through 3332 03:15:49.040 --> 03:15:50.719 and if they need him, they would tell me, and 3333 03:15:50.719 --> 03:15:54.440 then I would send them to what building system or 3334 03:15:54.760 --> 03:15:57.719 you know, what compound and what building in the structure 3335 03:15:58.280 --> 03:16:05.959 and and so same same type scenario, a little bit 3336 03:16:06.040 --> 03:16:12.120 different layout. They start funneling through and then same thing. 3337 03:16:12.239 --> 03:16:14.680 Two guys like, but this one it's like really close. 3338 03:16:14.760 --> 03:16:19.239 It's like it's probably like it was an elevated like 3339 03:16:19.360 --> 03:16:22.319 it was almost like a wooden structure versus your typical 3340 03:16:22.440 --> 03:16:25.479 mud wall, and it it's. 3341 03:16:25.319 --> 03:16:28.200 Crazy as to sound like a like a rear porch deck. 3342 03:16:28.879 --> 03:16:33.159 Okay, but I just remember I could only see half 3343 03:16:33.200 --> 03:16:37.280 of them, and so same type thing. So two guys 3344 03:16:37.520 --> 03:16:42.440 kind of they're going through, you can hear them going through, 3345 03:16:42.959 --> 03:16:47.000 and then two guys go out and same scenario. You know, 3346 03:16:47.040 --> 03:16:48.600 it's like I can't see what they're doing there, but 3347 03:16:48.680 --> 03:16:52.239 they kind of they were out. The door popped down 3348 03:16:52.879 --> 03:16:58.559 and then you know, eliminate the potential threat and I. 3349 03:16:58.559 --> 03:17:01.600 Don't know what they're what's below. 3350 03:17:02.440 --> 03:17:12.280 And so finish go through the whole compound and they 3351 03:17:12.600 --> 03:17:19.159 finished clearing the compound. We don't find the target. There's 3352 03:17:19.319 --> 03:17:21.280 you know, it's like most targets, right, you have people 3353 03:17:21.319 --> 03:17:25.280 squirting off in different directions, maneuvering to different realms. It's 3354 03:17:25.280 --> 03:17:27.520 an important word. I learned to never say the word squirter. 3355 03:17:28.879 --> 03:17:34.879 There a square, they're maneuvering to a position of advantage. 3356 03:17:35.600 --> 03:17:41.959 And so potentially that's the guy made it. So we 3357 03:17:42.319 --> 03:17:48.760 you know, everything's done and we start heading back the 3358 03:17:48.840 --> 03:17:55.559 next morning, like it's chaotic and so I don't know 3359 03:17:55.600 --> 03:18:01.280 how the message came in, but essentially it was the 3360 03:18:01.319 --> 03:18:05.079 story that you kind of started saying. It was like, hey, 3361 03:18:07.479 --> 03:18:09.600 we just had something. I think it was probably like 3362 03:18:09.719 --> 03:18:15.120 the elder for the area or something like, hey, people 3363 03:18:15.159 --> 03:18:20.040 came in and and and murdered you know, ten people 3364 03:18:20.159 --> 03:18:26.000 or twelve people last night, and so instantly everything gets 3365 03:18:26.040 --> 03:18:33.920 shut down. We're a full shut down and we're on 3366 03:18:34.079 --> 03:18:37.680 full shutdown. And as soon as that happened, all of 3367 03:18:37.719 --> 03:18:42.399 the all of our counterparts from the agency side disappear, 3368 03:18:43.319 --> 03:18:46.840 like they all got on helicopters and left and rolled 3369 03:18:46.879 --> 03:18:52.159 out and and so it's it's you know, you know, 3370 03:18:52.200 --> 03:18:54.719 I'm an augment. I'm like, okay, this is not good. 3371 03:18:55.680 --> 03:19:05.000 Oh rewind one on Christmas because you send your the 3372 03:19:05.079 --> 03:19:08.360 sit reps up before you know, the after action of 3373 03:19:08.399 --> 03:19:11.079 the mission. The unit commander called me, so I'm a 3374 03:19:11.120 --> 03:19:13.559 new guide to the unit. So actual unit commander calls 3375 03:19:13.639 --> 03:19:16.959 me on the phone and was like, hey, you're right. 3376 03:19:17.079 --> 03:19:19.959 You know, I got word of you know, first name. 3377 03:19:20.000 --> 03:19:22.520 You know, it's kind of still with when you're dealing 3378 03:19:22.520 --> 03:19:25.000 with the command, even though everybody in softas first name, 3379 03:19:25.040 --> 03:19:27.840 you know, when you're dealing with the commander, he's like, 3380 03:19:28.760 --> 03:19:31.200 I heard about you know everything, because I got briefed, 3381 03:19:31.239 --> 03:19:33.559 and you know, just want to say you're doing a 3382 03:19:33.559 --> 03:19:36.879 good job. And so it was it was really really 3383 03:19:36.920 --> 03:19:39.360 kind of yeah, just cool. You know, it's like the Unich. 3384 03:19:39.600 --> 03:19:40.680 You had got the jackpot. 3385 03:19:40.959 --> 03:19:42.760 Yeah, so it was it was really cool and so 3386 03:19:43.479 --> 03:19:48.360 had had that. Then two days later this happens. So 3387 03:19:48.440 --> 03:19:53.120 now there's this It starts getting thrown around like hey, 3388 03:19:53.120 --> 03:19:54.840 there's we need to investigate this. 3389 03:19:55.159 --> 03:19:57.120 And it was because now did they say there were 3390 03:19:57.200 --> 03:19:58.079 kids murdered? Also? 3391 03:19:58.239 --> 03:20:00.000 They did, So that was the thing that they were 3392 03:20:00.159 --> 03:20:04.760 actually handcuffed, are Zif tied zif tied up and executed. 3393 03:20:04.879 --> 03:20:11.319 It's actually executed, is the way it said. And and 3394 03:20:11.520 --> 03:20:15.399 that's not what happened, right, and so. 3395 03:20:16.840 --> 03:20:20.959 I'm like, oh, this is not good. 3396 03:20:22.479 --> 03:20:26.680 That same timeframe though, up in I think it was 3397 03:20:27.920 --> 03:20:33.159 Maza Schory mez the again because you have the outstation 3398 03:20:33.360 --> 03:20:35.840 teams doing this mission, and then you still have the 3399 03:20:35.840 --> 03:20:39.440 assault force doing their thing, right, so the so the strikeforce, 3400 03:20:39.479 --> 03:20:43.760 so they're doing their thing, so they needed to ramp up, 3401 03:20:43.879 --> 03:20:48.200 I guess, so they pulled all of their two because 3402 03:20:49.040 --> 03:20:51.079 I think I don't know how they break it down, 3403 03:20:51.079 --> 03:20:53.719 but I think like one of the troops essentially divides 3404 03:20:53.760 --> 03:20:56.959 people up and they run these like Omega outstations I think, 3405 03:20:58.639 --> 03:21:01.920 and then they can consolidate if need to. And so 3406 03:21:02.000 --> 03:21:04.879 that's what they did. Say they pulled each of these 3407 03:21:04.959 --> 03:21:09.559 two basically organic to their organization. Guys, they got on 3408 03:21:09.600 --> 03:21:11.840 a flight and they headed up to all link up 3409 03:21:11.879 --> 03:21:18.120 to to hit a target and and so they're I'm there. 3410 03:21:19.120 --> 03:21:23.399 So it's it's like you had the you know, the 3411 03:21:23.399 --> 03:21:25.799 the chief of base, but I didn't really. It's so 3412 03:21:26.040 --> 03:21:27.639 you know, I know, you should say hi in the 3413 03:21:27.639 --> 03:21:30.680 little dining facility, but you're really not having conversations with 3414 03:21:30.760 --> 03:21:34.959 them the you know, the the medics, you do, like 3415 03:21:35.000 --> 03:21:39.479 the some of the the contractors that are working and 3416 03:21:39.479 --> 03:21:42.680 and so, and I didn't know what to do. So 3417 03:21:42.760 --> 03:21:46.040 then it got came down that they were sending out 3418 03:21:46.120 --> 03:21:50.760 an officer and ended up being a general officer because 3419 03:21:50.760 --> 03:21:56.440 they're thinking war crimes happened, and so you know, I 3420 03:21:56.440 --> 03:21:59.639 I'm kind of, you know, kind of freaking out a 3421 03:21:59.639 --> 03:22:03.799 little bit it. And so I call back and I 3422 03:22:03.840 --> 03:22:06.680 think I was talking to the troopstar major and I 3423 03:22:06.719 --> 03:22:09.479 was like, hey, man, like this is going on, what 3424 03:22:09.479 --> 03:22:11.239 do you do? And he's just like, you do what 3425 03:22:11.280 --> 03:22:14.280 you were told to do. And then I'll just leave 3426 03:22:14.319 --> 03:22:17.200 it at that because I didn't really know like how 3427 03:22:17.239 --> 03:22:20.159 to respond to a lot of things because again I'm 3428 03:22:20.440 --> 03:22:22.360 I'm a medic. I'm not one of the other guys, 3429 03:22:22.719 --> 03:22:25.280 so they have specific training for how to deal with 3430 03:22:25.319 --> 03:22:28.799 situations and and and I didn't get those blocks of 3431 03:22:28.840 --> 03:22:36.840 instruction and so so yeah, so uh, an officer flies 3432 03:22:36.879 --> 03:22:40.440 out and I'm sitting there and he's taking my statement, 3433 03:22:40.760 --> 03:22:44.600 and you know, I'm like, I'm like, oh man, this 3434 03:22:44.719 --> 03:22:45.799 is this is not good. 3435 03:22:46.479 --> 03:22:49.760 And uh he ended up the only people were left. 3436 03:22:49.760 --> 03:22:52.440 It was like me and their intel because they had 3437 03:22:52.440 --> 03:22:55.520 a you know, they have their their they bring their 3438 03:22:56.959 --> 03:23:01.639 equivalent of the into as to essentially they're the team 3439 03:23:01.680 --> 03:23:07.280 has it there their organic intel guys. So it's me 3440 03:23:07.319 --> 03:23:09.440 and him and maybe somebody else. 3441 03:23:10.520 --> 03:23:12.200 But were you the only one on target? Or were 3442 03:23:12.200 --> 03:23:13.079 they on target? Also? 3443 03:23:15.000 --> 03:23:18.559 No, he was not. And I believe I I don't 3444 03:23:18.600 --> 03:23:24.079 know who they all they question, but I know of 3445 03:23:24.120 --> 03:23:26.760 like the main core element because these teams are only 3446 03:23:26.840 --> 03:23:31.680 so it's a medic two organic team guys from them, 3447 03:23:31.760 --> 03:23:37.600 and then you have these other white side, the white side. 3448 03:23:36.840 --> 03:23:37.000 And. 3449 03:23:38.440 --> 03:23:43.760 They were gone and so they and I think one 3450 03:23:43.799 --> 03:23:49.680 of those guys was rotating out because he did. And 3451 03:23:49.719 --> 03:23:52.799 it's actually and so what was I'll say his name 3452 03:23:52.840 --> 03:23:54.319 because he's he was on extortion. 3453 03:23:54.440 --> 03:23:55.319 But j T. 3454 03:23:55.840 --> 03:23:59.639 So j T was our augment he was our j tech, 3455 03:24:00.120 --> 03:24:03.399 so he was our augment and he had made it 3456 03:24:03.479 --> 03:24:08.319 I think through their green team. So they were flying 3457 03:24:08.360 --> 03:24:11.360 a new augment in he was going back, I think, 3458 03:24:11.360 --> 03:24:16.120 to do I guess the I don't know whatever what 3459 03:24:16.200 --> 03:24:22.239 he had to do. And so and the other guy 3460 03:24:23.319 --> 03:24:26.639 either he didn't go on that mission for some reason. 3461 03:24:26.959 --> 03:24:29.639 But essentially, I think I was like one of the 3462 03:24:29.680 --> 03:24:32.479 main guys who basically had to go through the scrutiny 3463 03:24:32.520 --> 03:24:33.920 of this, and it was something new to me. 3464 03:24:33.959 --> 03:24:36.840 I had never experienced it for and so you know, I. 3465 03:24:36.799 --> 03:24:40.680 Went through that investigation, but it wasn't really investigation because 3466 03:24:41.319 --> 03:24:46.200 like now have being like you know, in a command 3467 03:24:46.239 --> 03:24:49.479 team of a military organization, I know what a fifteen 3468 03:24:49.639 --> 03:24:52.280 six is, yeah, and all these so this is not 3469 03:24:52.399 --> 03:24:54.399 It was more of collecting a witness statement. 3470 03:24:54.680 --> 03:24:57.959 They knew that you guys had not handcuffeds it tied 3471 03:24:58.000 --> 03:25:00.319 a bunch of kids and execute him, but they still 3472 03:25:00.360 --> 03:25:03.559 had to go through the motion of Yeah, so. 3473 03:25:04.079 --> 03:25:08.559 I'll tell you that I didn't know that at the time, 3474 03:25:08.680 --> 03:25:11.559 and nobody basically gave me that peace of mind, right, 3475 03:25:12.280 --> 03:25:14.159 And so it really kind of messed me up for 3476 03:25:14.319 --> 03:25:18.319 a long time because I really started to question myself 3477 03:25:18.399 --> 03:25:21.319 like did I did I need to shoot? Like your 3478 03:25:21.440 --> 03:25:27.760 mind just so I already like have you know PTSD 3479 03:25:27.920 --> 03:25:32.719 from everything else? And now so now I'm like, did 3480 03:25:32.719 --> 03:25:34.959 it Did I just kill people that I didn't need 3481 03:25:35.000 --> 03:25:35.360 to kill? 3482 03:25:35.600 --> 03:25:37.479 Like what I know? 3483 03:25:37.680 --> 03:25:39.559 I did everything I was supposed to do, and I 3484 03:25:39.559 --> 03:25:45.040 started to question every action and so and so I 3485 03:25:45.079 --> 03:25:49.360 didn't really know how to process that. So so, but 3486 03:25:49.760 --> 03:25:55.520 to your point, basically it kind of like just went away. 3487 03:25:55.559 --> 03:25:59.319 It wasn't like there was even any follow up. It 3488 03:25:59.479 --> 03:26:02.000 just kind of this guy came out to your point, 3489 03:26:02.040 --> 03:26:05.959 I think he was directed to do an inquiry or investigation. 3490 03:26:06.120 --> 03:26:08.959 Yeah whatever. Yeah, they have to. 3491 03:26:08.559 --> 03:26:11.639 Report to their government because their government was saying, hey, 3492 03:26:11.680 --> 03:26:13.319 you're going out to do this. So it was like, 3493 03:26:14.280 --> 03:26:16.319 I don't want to call it a check the box 3494 03:26:16.520 --> 03:26:20.799 or whatever, but it's kind of what a hindsight, you know, 3495 03:26:20.840 --> 03:26:23.399 looking at it, it was like, well, maybe that they 3496 03:26:23.399 --> 03:26:27.000 were doing what they needed to do to fulfill their 3497 03:26:27.040 --> 03:26:28.440 obligation to look into it. 3498 03:26:28.840 --> 03:26:32.719 I'm not saying that there were never any questionable killings 3499 03:26:32.760 --> 03:26:38.680 of military age males on targets throughout theater throughout Afghanistan, but. 3500 03:26:40.159 --> 03:26:42.399 You're talking about like two thousand and nine twenty ten. 3501 03:26:42.520 --> 03:26:45.000 Right, people who had been in and out of theater 3502 03:26:45.079 --> 03:26:49.959 by that time were used to the idea of you know, 3503 03:26:50.200 --> 03:26:56.079 these killer teams killing kids, you know, like executing kids, 3504 03:26:56.559 --> 03:26:59.040 of using human shields, of all this stuff that. 3505 03:26:59.159 --> 03:27:01.520 Was not going on. They knew it wasn't going on, 3506 03:27:02.120 --> 03:27:08.360 and but you still have to you can't just you 3507 03:27:08.360 --> 03:27:10.680 can't just at the highest level, go that didn't happen. 3508 03:27:10.879 --> 03:27:16.639 Yeah, so so yeah, so that's the twenty six, twenty seventh, 3509 03:27:16.639 --> 03:27:20.559 twenty eighth. We get to twenty nine December and if 3510 03:27:20.600 --> 03:27:24.000 anybody knows about I think it was twenty nine or 3511 03:27:24.000 --> 03:27:31.639 thirty December of two thousand and Yeah, we uh, instantly, 3512 03:27:31.760 --> 03:27:35.159 I think Chief of Base got a call that a 3513 03:27:36.200 --> 03:27:43.639 I think at Chapman they had just had a suicide. Yeah, yeah, 3514 03:27:44.120 --> 03:27:49.399 and instantly. I didn't really know what was going on 3515 03:27:49.520 --> 03:27:51.680 at the time, and to be quite honest, I still 3516 03:27:51.719 --> 03:27:55.840 really don't know a whole lot about it today. But 3517 03:27:56.559 --> 03:28:03.840 people were not okay with the procedures that were allowed 3518 03:28:03.879 --> 03:28:06.799 to not be followed, and it was instantly being talked about. 3519 03:28:08.520 --> 03:28:13.000 And I remember that, and I know that those folks, 3520 03:28:14.040 --> 03:28:19.680 you know, they they made the ultimate sacrifice, right, decision, 3521 03:28:19.760 --> 03:28:23.520 wrong decision. So I'm certainly not going to question their 3522 03:28:23.559 --> 03:28:28.639 decision or shed bad light on them. But it was 3523 03:28:28.719 --> 03:28:31.239 being talked about that the person in charge did not 3524 03:28:31.360 --> 03:28:33.719 make the right decision and had told the other people 3525 03:28:34.840 --> 03:28:38.000 to not follow the normal procedure in the sake of 3526 03:28:38.879 --> 03:28:42.079 they were trying to build rapport with this person and 3527 03:28:42.159 --> 03:28:48.639 to not do it and ultimately, you know, cost people 3528 03:28:48.680 --> 03:28:52.000 their lives. And I remember the medic, So that medic, 3529 03:28:52.760 --> 03:28:55.840 that the one sixtieth medic that I mentioned, he was 3530 03:28:55.879 --> 03:28:58.600 actually there and that was his station, and he had 3531 03:28:58.639 --> 03:29:00.600 told me the stories of you know, just trying to 3532 03:29:00.600 --> 03:29:05.479 stop the bleeding and put a hold pressure. Man. I again, 3533 03:29:05.600 --> 03:29:08.840 I don't like telling other people's war stories. People need 3534 03:29:08.840 --> 03:29:12.520 to tell their own stories. I can always tell mine. 3535 03:29:12.639 --> 03:29:15.399 But I remember him telling me, and you know, you 3536 03:29:15.440 --> 03:29:17.760 remember certain things people say. But it could, like I said, 3537 03:29:17.799 --> 03:29:20.239 it could be wrong of him trying to control the 3538 03:29:20.280 --> 03:29:24.079 bleeding just out of someone's neck and not being able 3539 03:29:24.120 --> 03:29:29.000 to do it, and they ultimately died. And again, like 3540 03:29:29.040 --> 03:29:31.280 some of these things have led into me, same the 3541 03:29:31.280 --> 03:29:35.319 things I've worked on and deal with today, just to 3542 03:29:35.360 --> 03:29:39.200 simplify things and find solutions to deal with medical problems. 3543 03:29:40.440 --> 03:29:45.719 But but yeah, so that was that was pretty interesting timeframe. 3544 03:29:45.799 --> 03:29:50.040 So things after that, between that incident and our incidents, 3545 03:29:50.719 --> 03:29:55.000 things not a lot went on after that because I 3546 03:29:55.000 --> 03:30:01.000 think everything was pretty much shut down and so so 3547 03:30:01.120 --> 03:30:05.000 that happened. I didn't hear anything else about that, and 3548 03:30:05.040 --> 03:30:08.639 then I think I was in country for another two 3549 03:30:08.680 --> 03:30:11.000 to three months. So that's a lot of time doing. 3550 03:30:12.879 --> 03:30:17.120 I call it a camp improvement. You know, it's just 3551 03:30:17.159 --> 03:30:22.000 like you're proven your worksplace and uh, you know, we 3552 03:30:22.079 --> 03:30:25.520 did a lot of again, like I continued the report process. 3553 03:30:25.639 --> 03:30:28.760 I remember these guys like they were still processing a 3554 03:30:28.760 --> 03:30:31.799 lot of their losses at the time, and I can 3555 03:30:31.879 --> 03:30:37.520 distinctly remember they had all these you know when you 3556 03:30:37.600 --> 03:30:42.760 have like like a memorial, you'll have like the guy's face, 3557 03:30:42.799 --> 03:30:46.120 and they were pinned up all around the base and 3558 03:30:46.159 --> 03:30:48.639 it was all of their squadron guys, these little like 3559 03:30:48.760 --> 03:30:52.200 stories about them and their life and you know basically 3560 03:30:52.239 --> 03:30:56.959 said you know, basically their awards and decorations and the 3561 03:30:57.040 --> 03:30:57.840 units they'd been in. 3562 03:30:58.799 --> 03:30:59.239 And so. 3563 03:31:01.280 --> 03:31:04.040 I we had gotten this big printer in It was 3564 03:31:04.079 --> 03:31:05.200 like this cool big printer. 3565 03:31:05.879 --> 03:31:08.440 There was like this long and it did like photo quality. 3566 03:31:08.680 --> 03:31:12.079 It was probably supposed to be used for masters and yeah, yeah, 3567 03:31:12.120 --> 03:31:13.760 but I made posters for everybody. 3568 03:31:13.840 --> 03:31:14.159 Yeah. 3569 03:31:14.559 --> 03:31:20.639 So I basically I took all of those those things 3570 03:31:20.680 --> 03:31:23.479 from around. They were just like little random just snippets 3571 03:31:23.479 --> 03:31:26.440 of old paper of these things that these guys saved. 3572 03:31:27.120 --> 03:31:29.559 And I had made a big poster and put their 3573 03:31:29.600 --> 03:31:31.799 image in their name and rank under it, and then 3574 03:31:31.840 --> 03:31:34.719 I and in the middle of it was a an 3575 03:31:34.760 --> 03:31:39.280 American flag with with their skull and bones, you know, 3576 03:31:39.760 --> 03:31:44.239 the squadron I was with and and so and and 3577 03:31:44.280 --> 03:31:46.000 framed it and hunged it up and put it right 3578 03:31:46.040 --> 03:31:48.280 above the ones you walked out of the door. So 3579 03:31:49.040 --> 03:31:54.079 and those guys really appreciated that, and uh and so yeah, 3580 03:31:54.680 --> 03:31:58.520 and so you know, you you talk, you think about 3581 03:31:58.559 --> 03:32:02.399 like all you know, I I watched these guys' stories, 3582 03:32:02.440 --> 03:32:04.280 you know, and I still talk to some of them. 3583 03:32:06.079 --> 03:32:11.600 Those guys were unpacking a lot, and you know, you 3584 03:32:11.600 --> 03:32:15.559 you talk about like alcohol, right, So alcohols in soft 3585 03:32:15.600 --> 03:32:19.000 overseas and it's probably inconventional forces to write you know, 3586 03:32:19.120 --> 03:32:21.879 general order number one right right. That was the one 3587 03:32:21.920 --> 03:32:24.719 difference about the Omega trips, Like the agency has bars. 3588 03:32:24.799 --> 03:32:26.920 I don't know if they're supposed to or not, but 3589 03:32:27.040 --> 03:32:29.479 I know General Macrystal actually walk through when I was 3590 03:32:29.520 --> 03:32:32.600 there and actually went and seen their bars and was like, 3591 03:32:32.879 --> 03:32:34.120 you know, peeking their head in there. 3592 03:32:34.559 --> 03:32:35.399 And it's a full bar. 3593 03:32:35.479 --> 03:32:37.680 It's not like hidden, it's not like in somebody's room 3594 03:32:37.760 --> 03:32:40.159 behind something or in a mouth washed bottle. 3595 03:32:40.200 --> 03:32:41.200 It's a it's a bar. 3596 03:32:42.760 --> 03:32:45.799 And uh well, I guess the only ground glamorizer for 3597 03:32:45.879 --> 03:32:48.879 people have a it's it's a shelf with alcohol. 3598 03:32:48.559 --> 03:32:50.879 Right the open, and it's not like a bar. 3599 03:32:52.600 --> 03:32:57.120 And so these guys, though I think some of them were, 3600 03:32:57.840 --> 03:33:01.280 they're coping mechanism like most people's co be mechanism as alcohol, 3601 03:33:01.319 --> 03:33:08.000 and there's some there's some functional alcoholics, highly functional alcoholics 3602 03:33:08.040 --> 03:33:10.840 that were just and you I, as a medical person, 3603 03:33:10.879 --> 03:33:15.399 could start to see that. And I didn't say anything 3604 03:33:15.399 --> 03:33:18.399 about it. I didn't question it. I never seen any 3605 03:33:18.479 --> 03:33:22.799 bad conduct, you know, I never seen it impair their judgment, 3606 03:33:22.920 --> 03:33:28.559 their ability, but it was certainly worth noting that these 3607 03:33:28.600 --> 03:33:31.000 guys are, like I looked at it, not through the 3608 03:33:31.079 --> 03:33:35.719 lens of these guys are doing something wrong. These guys 3609 03:33:35.799 --> 03:33:42.319 have something that's troubling them and they're dealing with it 3610 03:33:42.559 --> 03:33:46.840 the best way that they can, as well as maintaining 3611 03:33:47.319 --> 03:33:54.840 a heard of operational tempo, and so you know, I thought, 3612 03:33:55.079 --> 03:33:59.639 like dealing with my own stuff seeing that, I was thinking, like, 3613 03:33:59.719 --> 03:34:03.959 you know what, psychology is going to be a big 3614 03:34:04.040 --> 03:34:10.920 issue and the coming years, this is becoming to be 3615 03:34:11.000 --> 03:34:17.840 a long war, and you're seeing it pop up everywhere. 3616 03:34:18.920 --> 03:34:22.760 Kind of the stuff you said, people experiencing mass loss, 3617 03:34:22.920 --> 03:34:25.840 how do they cope with it? Taking out their anger vengeance? 3618 03:34:27.559 --> 03:34:30.239 And I know it was talked about like those guys 3619 03:34:30.280 --> 03:34:32.840 definitely avenge some of their teammates, and they would tell 3620 03:34:32.879 --> 03:34:34.520 you the stories of it. And again it's not those 3621 03:34:34.520 --> 03:34:40.360 aren't my stories to tell, but they certainly did do 3622 03:34:40.479 --> 03:34:44.600 business and take care of business, and some people scrutinize 3623 03:34:44.600 --> 03:34:49.120 them for that, and and maybe rightfully, so maybe not rightfully. 3624 03:34:49.159 --> 03:34:51.799 So it's not me for me to judge or to 3625 03:34:51.879 --> 03:34:57.319 pass judgment, but it's certainly something that they you know, 3626 03:34:57.360 --> 03:34:59.959 they got to they'll carry that, you know. I think 3627 03:35:00.159 --> 03:35:03.000 just like Vietnam veterans and other veterans from different wars, 3628 03:35:04.959 --> 03:35:09.000 they're gonna have to to deal with deal with that stuff. 3629 03:35:09.040 --> 03:35:11.680 And and and I think that's why we have the 3630 03:35:11.760 --> 03:35:16.600 veterans suicide rates that we have. And uh, you know, 3631 03:35:16.680 --> 03:35:18.760 hopefully we'll get to talk a little bit about it. 3632 03:35:18.799 --> 03:35:21.120 I mean, I I got to experience it towards the 3633 03:35:21.200 --> 03:35:25.159 end of my career, and and so I'm happy to 3634 03:35:25.200 --> 03:35:28.000 share that just before awareness because I think it's important 3635 03:35:28.799 --> 03:35:33.680 for people to not it. It's it's ok it's okay 3636 03:35:33.760 --> 03:35:37.840 to judge it. It's not okay to judge. You can 3637 03:35:37.959 --> 03:35:46.879 have judgment. But you you've never you know, it's the thing, 3638 03:35:46.920 --> 03:35:49.079 you've never walked in their shoes. You weren't there, you 3639 03:35:49.120 --> 03:35:53.600 don't know, So why you hindsight's always twenty twenty. It's 3640 03:35:53.280 --> 03:35:58.239 it's you just don't know what the people are dealing with, right, 3641 03:35:58.680 --> 03:36:04.879 and people were in perfect beings. I believe, you know, 3642 03:36:05.040 --> 03:36:08.479 we're flawed. We make mistakes, you know. I'm a spiritual person, 3643 03:36:08.879 --> 03:36:12.559 you know, and that's actually helped me. I think it's 3644 03:36:12.559 --> 03:36:16.079 helped other people in the community. But to each their 3645 03:36:16.120 --> 03:36:21.920 own and so but yeah, that's uh, that was that trip. 3646 03:36:22.000 --> 03:36:26.399 That was that was a lot to unpact there, but 3647 03:36:26.440 --> 03:36:29.479 that was that was a little bit a little bit 3648 03:36:29.520 --> 03:36:31.879 of taste of that environment. So I got to experience 3649 03:36:31.920 --> 03:36:34.920 a lot of different things thus far. And so now 3650 03:36:34.959 --> 03:36:37.399 I get to you know, I get back to the 3651 03:36:37.520 --> 03:36:41.600 unit and you know, sharing these things with with the 3652 03:36:41.639 --> 03:36:47.280 folks there, and then we actually sustain that rotate that 3653 03:36:47.879 --> 03:36:52.399 site for a good bit of time. And I can 3654 03:36:52.440 --> 03:36:55.360 say everybody did not have the same experience I had. 3655 03:36:55.520 --> 03:36:57.159 In terms of like integration. 3656 03:36:57.799 --> 03:37:01.040 Yeah, certain guys dealt with integration. I can tell you. 3657 03:37:01.559 --> 03:37:09.280 There's one guy who got he had a bad something 3658 03:37:09.319 --> 03:37:12.120 happened where they had a personality conflict with his team 3659 03:37:12.159 --> 03:37:15.479 and he was not from our organization but from another one, 3660 03:37:15.719 --> 03:37:20.440 and he ended up getting beaten pretty good to the 3661 03:37:20.479 --> 03:37:23.079 point where that he had to I think they put 3662 03:37:23.159 --> 03:37:27.159 him in ic U. And you know, I've never heard 3663 03:37:27.239 --> 03:37:33.079 that story public. It's well known in the medical community 3664 03:37:33.319 --> 03:37:41.159 at JAYS, but it's not one of those stories that's 3665 03:37:41.159 --> 03:37:43.920 floating out there. But that's one of the earlier stories 3666 03:37:43.959 --> 03:37:47.159 of just some conflict. You know, why that happened, I 3667 03:37:47.200 --> 03:37:53.760 don't know, but it definitely happened. And even one of 3668 03:37:53.799 --> 03:37:58.840 our augments, we sent a guy and he didn't mesh well, 3669 03:37:58.879 --> 03:38:02.600 and you know, he kind of got isolated and oh man, 3670 03:38:02.879 --> 03:38:06.159 his phone linees cut and his computer lines cut for communication, 3671 03:38:06.440 --> 03:38:09.920 and we thought we were going to have to get 3672 03:38:10.000 --> 03:38:12.200 him out of there, just because we were worried about 3673 03:38:12.239 --> 03:38:16.239 something happening to him, and luckily nothing did. He just 3674 03:38:16.440 --> 03:38:17.360 kind of sat for a. 3675 03:38:17.280 --> 03:38:25.440 While, and were these two incidents were they Were they 3676 03:38:25.719 --> 03:38:28.440 solely with the Devreu guy or the damn Net guys, 3677 03:38:28.840 --> 03:38:31.399 or were they also with like the Red guys. 3678 03:38:32.360 --> 03:38:36.559 No, I'd never after that experience, I didn't work with 3679 03:38:36.600 --> 03:38:40.239 the Rangers again, so I actually didn't even know they 3680 03:38:40.280 --> 03:38:42.799 did those rotations, to be quite honest with you, until 3681 03:38:42.879 --> 03:38:50.360 until recently. It was specifically with those guys. And again, 3682 03:38:50.479 --> 03:38:53.760 like I had such a positive experience, I hate to 3683 03:38:53.799 --> 03:38:57.239 even like I don't even know, I feel bad. It's 3684 03:38:57.280 --> 03:38:58.760 like I almost feel like, well, why did you bring 3685 03:38:58.799 --> 03:39:03.719 it up? Then? But it's for him. It's you know, 3686 03:39:04.440 --> 03:39:05.319 it shouldn't. 3687 03:39:04.920 --> 03:39:06.920 Have happened, right, so if you got put in the 3688 03:39:07.120 --> 03:39:09.520 ICU on, it shouldn't have happened. 3689 03:39:09.559 --> 03:39:11.840 And but it did happen. And I don't know why 3690 03:39:11.920 --> 03:39:14.719 I wasn't there. But it's but it's but it's one 3691 03:39:14.719 --> 03:39:17.959 of those kind of known thing. It's kind of one 3692 03:39:17.959 --> 03:39:22.079 of those like it's just an ugly mark. I mean, 3693 03:39:22.079 --> 03:39:25.079 it's it's a stain. It's a stain that doesn't need 3694 03:39:25.120 --> 03:39:29.040 to be there. Yeah, it's like there's there's different ways 3695 03:39:29.040 --> 03:39:34.280 to manage that. But again going back to the psychological aspect, 3696 03:39:34.879 --> 03:39:37.399 I don't know. I don't know what happened that certainly 3697 03:39:37.520 --> 03:39:42.639 wasn't justified nor should be tolerated, but I don't know 3698 03:39:43.040 --> 03:39:49.920 the dynamics. So so yeah, so I get back from 3699 03:39:50.000 --> 03:39:56.680 that and then it's you know, just going back and 3700 03:39:56.680 --> 03:39:59.360 doing the normal stuff. Well it's not normal. Let me 3701 03:39:59.479 --> 03:40:02.239 let me, let me just I guess, try to provide 3702 03:40:02.280 --> 03:40:04.479 some a little bit of insight. What if I think 3703 03:40:04.600 --> 03:40:06.120 what folks want to know is like, well, what do 3704 03:40:06.159 --> 03:40:08.600 you do? And it's so what you do is you 3705 03:40:08.680 --> 03:40:12.120 do a lot of high risk training, support and support 3706 03:40:12.159 --> 03:40:19.559 people becoming part of that organization. And so really that's 3707 03:40:19.600 --> 03:40:24.040 your role is to That's where I was going to 3708 03:40:25.319 --> 03:40:28.319 a little while ago. Your job is just sure that 3709 03:40:28.600 --> 03:40:33.840 every dynamic of the medical aspect of their job is 3710 03:40:34.000 --> 03:40:40.879 taken care of, to include initial training support, their selection process, 3711 03:40:40.920 --> 03:40:48.319 training support, their routine, team support, their equipping of their gear, 3712 03:40:49.840 --> 03:40:55.479 packing their stuff, putting them through enhanced training. So that 3713 03:40:55.680 --> 03:40:58.040 led me, you know, again, what shaped me into what 3714 03:40:58.079 --> 03:41:01.639 I'm doing today. You know, we had medical training program 3715 03:41:01.680 --> 03:41:08.159 that was skills for providers and I'll steer medical situations. 3716 03:41:08.319 --> 03:41:12.120 But essentially what it was is it's like you're training folks, 3717 03:41:13.040 --> 03:41:15.920 regardless of how they got there, how to take care 3718 03:41:15.959 --> 03:41:20.559 of themselves. Right. So it's like, I'm not going to 3719 03:41:20.639 --> 03:41:23.000 be there to patch you up or your buddy up, 3720 03:41:23.040 --> 03:41:25.840 and a lot of times you're you and you're it. 3721 03:41:26.159 --> 03:41:26.280 Right. 3722 03:41:27.040 --> 03:41:30.520 So here's your stuff, and here's all the training you 3723 03:41:31.159 --> 03:41:35.079 need to use that stuff, and then make sure that 3724 03:41:35.120 --> 03:41:37.600 stuff is good and you have the best stuff. And 3725 03:41:37.680 --> 03:41:43.319 then again like medications and you know, it's almost like 3726 03:41:43.360 --> 03:41:47.200 the pre equip equipping. But then there's making sure that 3727 03:41:47.319 --> 03:41:51.200 you give them stuff that doesn't highlight that right. So 3728 03:41:51.239 --> 03:41:53.399 there's that component I was gonna. 3729 03:41:53.159 --> 03:41:58.559 Ask you about that. Is there being being how some 3730 03:41:58.600 --> 03:42:02.319 of these units work, uh in and how they conduct 3731 03:42:02.360 --> 03:42:08.600 their missions? Is there is there an improvised medicine aspect 3732 03:42:08.799 --> 03:42:09.159 to it? 3733 03:42:09.239 --> 03:42:12.520 Like, look, you if you you can't walk around in 3734 03:42:12.559 --> 03:42:19.159 this environment with medical gear, so this is how you would. 3735 03:42:19.079 --> 03:42:21.799 Use super glue? Uh, this is how. 3736 03:42:21.799 --> 03:42:25.079 You know, it's kind of the wilderness of medicine approach. Yeah, 3737 03:42:25.200 --> 03:42:27.799 so there there is, And I'll tell you that's one 3738 03:42:27.799 --> 03:42:32.799 of my frustrations with man. Things you shouldn't say in 3739 03:42:32.799 --> 03:42:36.680 a public form. My frustrations with like the Kazi component, 3740 03:42:36.719 --> 03:42:42.200 the Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care, and it's when 3741 03:42:42.840 --> 03:42:46.920 when I they went very much and I think even 3742 03:42:46.959 --> 03:42:48.639 a lot of the schoolhouses. So when I went through 3743 03:42:48.680 --> 03:42:52.440 the schoolhouse, you you made all your medical kit. Right, 3744 03:42:52.520 --> 03:42:54.799 there was no such thing. I think chess seals were 3745 03:42:54.840 --> 03:42:58.319 just getting created. But you had like a cut trapper 3746 03:42:58.399 --> 03:43:02.920 keeper with a petroleum gauze and tape and it was 3747 03:43:03.000 --> 03:43:05.200 pre stuck to a board and that was your chest sealing. 3748 03:43:05.680 --> 03:43:07.600 And you're turning kit we already described, so you need 3749 03:43:07.639 --> 03:43:09.879 to go out of that. And so it's sticks and rags, right, 3750 03:43:10.159 --> 03:43:12.840 it's a lot of You have a lot of rags 3751 03:43:12.879 --> 03:43:15.399 and sticks and gauzes, and you know how to employ 3752 03:43:15.440 --> 03:43:18.600 them different ways because you understand principles of medicine. You 3753 03:43:18.680 --> 03:43:25.639 understand here's what I'm trying to mitigate now, and this 3754 03:43:25.719 --> 03:43:29.799 is a good thing. We actually have deliberate devices. So 3755 03:43:31.200 --> 03:43:34.280 when we went heavy to deliberate devices and these things 3756 03:43:34.360 --> 03:43:41.440 like the committees on tactical Medicine, because principle based medicine 3757 03:43:41.600 --> 03:43:44.000 for people who don't have a lot of training, they 3758 03:43:44.000 --> 03:43:45.959 can mess it up. So they want you to use 3759 03:43:45.959 --> 03:43:51.000 deliberate devices, so they kind of shun you actually even 3760 03:43:51.319 --> 03:43:56.520 doctrinally a lot of If you read like Basic Soldier's 3761 03:43:56.600 --> 03:44:01.719 Manual for Common Task, it talks about deces. That's a problem. 3762 03:44:01.760 --> 03:44:04.559 And I'll tell you why that's a problem. When you 3763 03:44:04.559 --> 03:44:08.319 have a recall on a device and you wrote in 3764 03:44:08.440 --> 03:44:11.360 doctrine how to this is the device you use and 3765 03:44:11.399 --> 03:44:14.879 how you use it. What happens if that device changes? 3766 03:44:15.280 --> 03:44:17.760 Because every device now that I'm in the medical device 3767 03:44:17.840 --> 03:44:21.559 industries has a different instruction for use and everything. Even 3768 03:44:21.600 --> 03:44:26.280 though they're similar, there's different nuances. And so I kind 3769 03:44:26.280 --> 03:44:30.879 of in that committee was like, hey, because I end 3770 03:44:31.000 --> 03:44:33.719 up ultimately later on in my career sitting on some 3771 03:44:33.760 --> 03:44:37.760 of these boards when and like, I don't think it's 3772 03:44:37.799 --> 03:44:41.200 a good idea, we go one hundred percent. I think 3773 03:44:41.200 --> 03:44:45.399 there's some things that should be agnostic, Like what if 3774 03:44:45.440 --> 03:44:47.639 something new comes out? Now you've got to rewrite all 3775 03:44:47.680 --> 03:44:51.399 your manuals. You literally wrote this device into every manual. 3776 03:44:51.440 --> 03:44:53.920 Now that's great for a medical device company because that 3777 03:44:53.959 --> 03:44:57.559 means money, and that's what it's kind of evolved to 3778 03:44:58.159 --> 03:45:02.920 big business. Your job is to get your device into doctrine. 3779 03:45:03.079 --> 03:45:09.760 Once it's in doctrine, you might as well just yeah, 3780 03:45:09.680 --> 03:45:12.799 tie your mansion now exactly because you're going to do 3781 03:45:12.879 --> 03:45:17.159 millions of dollars of business and that's the industry and 3782 03:45:17.239 --> 03:45:20.079 so you know, and I'm even in that space now, 3783 03:45:20.079 --> 03:45:26.719 that's where I work now, but I still knowing where 3784 03:45:26.719 --> 03:45:29.920 I you know, being where I've been and knowing what 3785 03:45:30.040 --> 03:45:33.600 I know, I know, like, hey, we can't deviate too 3786 03:45:33.680 --> 03:45:39.879 far from principles and teaching people how to improvise, because then, 3787 03:45:40.639 --> 03:45:45.200 you know, it's like training prepares you for the known 3788 03:45:45.399 --> 03:45:50.399 and education the unknown. Meaning I can if I teach 3789 03:45:50.440 --> 03:45:53.079 you how to take the top off this bottle, then 3790 03:45:53.200 --> 03:45:55.000 you falling step one, two and three and you do 3791 03:45:55.159 --> 03:45:58.000 one two three, But when this has a screw on it, 3792 03:45:58.040 --> 03:46:00.920 you're like, well, in the step manuel it says pull 3793 03:46:00.959 --> 03:46:04.399 it out, but this is a screw. Now that may 3794 03:46:04.440 --> 03:46:09.000 seem I'm oversimplifying it, but the point is like, if 3795 03:46:09.040 --> 03:46:13.440 we ever get into large scale combat operations, you better 3796 03:46:13.479 --> 03:46:16.520 believe the supply system will be depleted and you will 3797 03:46:16.520 --> 03:46:19.799 need to improvise. And so if we totally take out 3798 03:46:20.159 --> 03:46:22.479 how to teach people how to land nab with the compass, 3799 03:46:23.000 --> 03:46:26.600 and you totally get reliant on technology, and lose your 3800 03:46:26.600 --> 03:46:30.959 principles and your basic fundamentals. I think that you can 3801 03:46:31.000 --> 03:46:36.319 set yourself up for failure, so you know, I you know, 3802 03:46:36.399 --> 03:46:38.239 So that's one of the things that we did is 3803 03:46:38.399 --> 03:46:41.440 we did teach a lot of principle based stuff. But 3804 03:46:41.559 --> 03:46:44.159 at that time devices were kind of new to the space, 3805 03:46:44.200 --> 03:46:47.479 so a lot of like just your common you know, 3806 03:46:47.520 --> 03:46:49.840 your cat tourniquets and things like that. At that time, 3807 03:46:49.879 --> 03:46:52.319 they had already been employed, so people were carrying that stuff, 3808 03:46:53.000 --> 03:46:57.159 but that's not how we were trained. But now in 3809 03:46:57.200 --> 03:47:00.920 the schoolhouses it's all deliberate device and I think there's 3810 03:47:00.959 --> 03:47:03.319 goods and bads with that, and so my I would 3811 03:47:03.399 --> 03:47:08.120 hope that in soft they would still be principle based. 3812 03:47:08.600 --> 03:47:10.680 I can tell you when you get to the basic 3813 03:47:10.799 --> 03:47:16.239 medic and Gorman level, right, use this device and use 3814 03:47:16.239 --> 03:47:19.399 it you're supposed to use it, and it's like, well 3815 03:47:19.399 --> 03:47:21.559 there's maybe there's maybe there's better ways to do that, 3816 03:47:21.959 --> 03:47:24.520 and you know, sometimes things take a while to catch up. 3817 03:47:25.719 --> 03:47:30.559 So so yeah, so we there's a lot of instructions. 3818 03:47:30.559 --> 03:47:33.399 So that's a lot of the you know, the training support. 3819 03:47:35.000 --> 03:47:39.079 Where it gets kind of interesting is forward support, and 3820 03:47:39.120 --> 03:47:43.520 it's not forward support like you would think. It's putting 3821 03:47:43.600 --> 03:47:49.239 in systems and processes in place to ensure that you're 3822 03:47:49.280 --> 03:47:55.840 taken care of. And without crossing the line, I'll just 3823 03:47:55.879 --> 03:48:01.559 try to paint a picture. Okay, say that you are 3824 03:48:02.559 --> 03:48:07.079 maybe you're Hispanic, and maybe you're a little bit relaxed 3825 03:48:07.120 --> 03:48:11.040 grooming and you're working by yourself in a big country. 3826 03:48:11.159 --> 03:48:14.360 Like we'll just say you're working in Africa. Right, So 3827 03:48:14.440 --> 03:48:16.520 you have these countries and they're pretty big, they're like, 3828 03:48:16.719 --> 03:48:20.319 you know, like America fits in there three times, and 3829 03:48:20.360 --> 03:48:23.000 people don't really understand that. Well, I think they do now, 3830 03:48:23.040 --> 03:48:25.000 but they used it, didn't do It's a whole nother 3831 03:48:25.079 --> 03:48:31.879 story that's that ties directly into this. And you're driving 3832 03:48:31.959 --> 03:48:33.600 and we'll just say you get in a car accident 3833 03:48:34.559 --> 03:48:40.680 and everything on your person would never link you back 3834 03:48:42.719 --> 03:48:49.639 to anything that says you're a service member and okay, 3835 03:48:49.680 --> 03:48:53.680 I need to do this right or maybe you know, 3836 03:48:53.719 --> 03:48:55.600 like your wallet gets taken or something like that, you know, 3837 03:48:55.639 --> 03:48:57.680 because that's a lot of time that stuff happens in 3838 03:48:57.719 --> 03:49:01.360 these places. So it's putting systems in place that that 3839 03:49:01.440 --> 03:49:04.639 will make sure that they get taken care of because 3840 03:49:04.680 --> 03:49:06.559 we're not going to be there to do it. And 3841 03:49:06.639 --> 03:49:09.399 there might not be anybody else and people may not 3842 03:49:09.760 --> 03:49:15.399 know where they're at. So that takes a lot of magic, 3843 03:49:16.680 --> 03:49:19.200 and it's not really magic. It's a lot of planning, 3844 03:49:19.559 --> 03:49:24.280 a lot of validating. And so my next couple of 3845 03:49:24.440 --> 03:49:30.319 trips for that organization is that's what I did. I 3846 03:49:30.360 --> 03:49:35.559 traveled a lot around Africa, East Africa, and I validated 3847 03:49:35.600 --> 03:49:39.639 things and and I learned that's from one of our 3848 03:49:39.680 --> 03:49:41.440 one of our physicians. So I did it, and I 3849 03:49:41.479 --> 03:49:46.280 got to do it by myself at times, and that's 3850 03:49:46.319 --> 03:49:51.319 a whole different experience to traveling by yourself without a 3851 03:49:51.360 --> 03:49:58.639 weapon in a country like in soft You're like, of course, 3852 03:49:58.639 --> 03:49:59.799 soft people do that all the time. 3853 03:49:59.840 --> 03:50:01.760 It's like that's what we do. And I'm like, yeah, 3854 03:50:01.879 --> 03:50:02.399 you really do. 3855 03:50:02.719 --> 03:50:08.040 But yeah, okay, yeah, I'll go with you a little 3856 03:50:08.079 --> 03:50:10.879 bit down this, but I'm less like So for me, 3857 03:50:11.000 --> 03:50:13.719 it was certainly new and it's a little bit scary, 3858 03:50:13.799 --> 03:50:17.639 you know, just navigating around by yourself. And so I 3859 03:50:17.680 --> 03:50:21.600 got a cool story though well it's it wasn't cool 3860 03:50:21.639 --> 03:50:24.760 at the time, but it's kind of interesting now. So 3861 03:50:24.760 --> 03:50:27.280 so me and the dock, he was kind of showing 3862 03:50:27.280 --> 03:50:29.959 me the ropes on how to like I had known 3863 03:50:30.200 --> 03:50:32.719 about med plans and I had learned in Colombia out 3864 03:50:33.120 --> 03:50:36.959 validating and you know, just doing a lot the other 3865 03:50:37.000 --> 03:50:39.440 part of you know, doing hospital assessments and figuring out 3866 03:50:39.479 --> 03:50:42.040 capability and making sure that gets back to use of 3867 03:50:42.120 --> 03:50:45.799 sock validating. That's a big part of the component of CAA. 3868 03:50:46.520 --> 03:50:50.280 So I had learned how to do basically medical infrastructure 3869 03:50:50.319 --> 03:50:57.440 assessment and create documents and write plans, but I didn't 3870 03:50:58.040 --> 03:51:02.079 know how to do it into the nitnoid detail of 3871 03:51:02.120 --> 03:51:06.559 what they need. It becomes very specific. And when you 3872 03:51:06.600 --> 03:51:10.879 look about a place where the underdeveloped medical infrastructure, like 3873 03:51:11.559 --> 03:51:14.760 a lot of places in Africa or you know, someplace 3874 03:51:14.760 --> 03:51:18.319 in the Middle East, you got to really assess their 3875 03:51:18.360 --> 03:51:21.280 capability because like that's some of the things I learned. 3876 03:51:21.319 --> 03:51:24.440 So like the first so what we would do and 3877 03:51:24.520 --> 03:51:27.959 on this trip, So the first thing we did was 3878 03:51:28.000 --> 03:51:30.840 we go to to Hoa and we pull mad plans, 3879 03:51:31.200 --> 03:51:33.000 and then we pull stuff from USAC and then we 3880 03:51:33.159 --> 03:51:36.760 just we walk the dog literally boots on the ground 3881 03:51:36.760 --> 03:51:40.840 walking the dog and everything. And so this trip we're 3882 03:51:40.840 --> 03:51:47.200 doing it up by Manda Bay, so we're up close 3883 03:51:47.280 --> 03:51:50.559 to Somalia, so you know, being by yourself, no gun 3884 03:51:51.639 --> 03:51:55.159 up there is maybe you know, a. 3885 03:51:55.079 --> 03:51:56.840 Little sketched, right, it's a little sketch. 3886 03:51:56.920 --> 03:52:02.600 So so I think the is called Lindy Lindy. So 3887 03:52:02.719 --> 03:52:05.280 there's a Manda Bay and then there's another You had 3888 03:52:05.280 --> 03:52:08.959 to basically we had to get in somebody's speedboat and 3889 03:52:09.639 --> 03:52:12.479 it's just a taxi driver. It's just some dude like 3890 03:52:12.920 --> 03:52:14.520 pay this dude money and getting the speed on a 3891 03:52:14.520 --> 03:52:17.200 lost this way. So we get over there and so 3892 03:52:17.280 --> 03:52:20.159 basically that's what we're doing. We're walking the dog and 3893 03:52:20.239 --> 03:52:22.799 so there it was supposed to be a clinic there, 3894 03:52:22.840 --> 03:52:26.639 so okay, if somebody we need to then there this 3895 03:52:26.760 --> 03:52:33.479 clinics that we're valid in this clinic. We get off 3896 03:52:33.479 --> 03:52:38.000 the boat and like a couple, we're walking up the road. 3897 03:52:38.239 --> 03:52:40.639 You know, we we you know, are asking you know, 3898 03:52:40.680 --> 03:52:43.879 basic directions. And the other important thing is you're like 3899 03:52:43.920 --> 03:52:47.000 your dress right like and so so I had kind 3900 03:52:47.000 --> 03:52:50.719 of learned down in South America, like to don't dress 3901 03:52:50.879 --> 03:52:55.680 like your typical ari I like all the ship I 3902 03:52:55.680 --> 03:52:57.159 got from Aria. 3903 03:52:57.840 --> 03:52:58.000 No. 3904 03:52:58.159 --> 03:53:00.479 Yeah, so the first thing I learned was like soccer 3905 03:53:00.559 --> 03:53:03.639 jerseys are pretty universal, Like you wear like some kind 3906 03:53:03.680 --> 03:53:08.479 of short capri pants and maybe some sandily shoes with 3907 03:53:08.559 --> 03:53:11.479 a soccer jersey and like not like a backpack, but 3908 03:53:11.600 --> 03:53:17.559 like a you know, like a little messy like straw bag, 3909 03:53:17.680 --> 03:53:21.600 you know. So so yeah, so that so so we're 3910 03:53:21.719 --> 03:53:27.559 so we're like these two like European tourists and you know, 3911 03:53:28.280 --> 03:53:30.040 kind of guys walking around. 3912 03:53:29.719 --> 03:53:31.559 And you got underneath. 3913 03:53:32.840 --> 03:53:37.719 Yeah yeah. And and so like a couple of minutes 3914 03:53:37.799 --> 03:53:42.159 up the road, we start noticing we're getting followed, and 3915 03:53:43.360 --> 03:53:47.559 we're like, okay, oh ship, So we you know, we 3916 03:53:47.719 --> 03:53:50.040 just keep doing we're doing we kind of you know, 3917 03:53:50.079 --> 03:53:53.399 we're just like we don't have a pre designated plan, 3918 03:53:54.120 --> 03:53:57.680 like this is our plan, and and we're out there, right, 3919 03:53:59.120 --> 03:54:05.760 and so we end up stopping in the clinic. I 3920 03:54:05.760 --> 03:54:10.440 think we stopped in a little like hodgepodge pharmacy, not 3921 03:54:10.559 --> 03:54:12.799 like the pharmacy like you would think. It looks like 3922 03:54:13.319 --> 03:54:17.479 it kind of reminds me of exactly like here. It's 3923 03:54:17.520 --> 03:54:20.879 like these little storefronts that you're like you make cheeseburgers in, 3924 03:54:21.520 --> 03:54:23.760 Like I never thought that you'd make cheers in this 3925 03:54:23.799 --> 03:54:26.239 gas station, Like but it's not a gas station. It's 3926 03:54:26.280 --> 03:54:28.799 like a I don't know, blow somebody's house. 3927 03:54:28.920 --> 03:54:29.959 Yeah, so the same kind of thing. 3928 03:54:30.040 --> 03:54:31.719 It's like this, uh like these. 3929 03:54:31.600 --> 03:54:34.840 Little bodegas yea yeah, and so like little pharmacy. 3930 03:54:34.920 --> 03:54:37.479 So as soon as we get out, the dude comes. 3931 03:54:37.680 --> 03:54:41.319 These two dudes come up to us, are like, we 3932 03:54:41.399 --> 03:54:43.559 know who you are and we're gonna kill you tonight 3933 03:54:45.959 --> 03:54:47.680 and just keep on walking. 3934 03:54:48.360 --> 03:54:52.879 And so some of our folks had set us up. 3935 03:54:55.920 --> 03:55:03.319 In this in this like it was like a resort. 3936 03:55:03.600 --> 03:55:05.600 And I don't want to describe it too much. I'll 3937 03:55:05.600 --> 03:55:07.200 describe it a little bit. I won't say what the 3938 03:55:07.280 --> 03:55:10.079 name it is a name just in case people are 3939 03:55:10.120 --> 03:55:16.040 still using it. But essentially it was an open air 3940 03:55:16.200 --> 03:55:18.719 you ever seen, Like it looks like the coolest vacation 3941 03:55:18.840 --> 03:55:21.799 in the world. Like it's like the sandals on the water. 3942 03:55:21.879 --> 03:55:24.399 You see these little open air there's just curtains like 3943 03:55:24.440 --> 03:55:26.920 blowing in the wind on the water. So we were 3944 03:55:27.079 --> 03:55:30.040 on the coast and there's these little huts like on 3945 03:55:30.159 --> 03:55:33.000 the water, open air and that's where we're staying at 3946 03:55:33.319 --> 03:55:36.280 and it's shut down. It's not tourist season. We're the 3947 03:55:36.360 --> 03:55:40.159 only people. There was one watchman in us. Yeah, like 3948 03:55:40.200 --> 03:55:46.479 what and so we're like, oh shit. So we just 3949 03:55:46.600 --> 03:55:49.040 keep going about it and we're like I think we 3950 03:55:49.159 --> 03:55:51.239 radioed back and kind of said, hey, like we may 3951 03:55:51.280 --> 03:55:54.600 have some problems. And so we get back to where 3952 03:55:54.600 --> 03:55:58.959 we're staying at and you know, we're we're doing our job, right, 3953 03:55:59.120 --> 03:56:01.600 and so we tell the watchman, hey, you know this, 3954 03:56:01.760 --> 03:56:03.959 people were bothering us in town today. You know, can 3955 03:56:04.000 --> 03:56:08.360 you be on the lookout. And so we had each 3956 03:56:08.520 --> 03:56:12.319 gotten our own little like you know, again the vacation pervicglow. 3957 03:56:12.520 --> 03:56:16.479 We didn't stay in that. Yeah, so we like the 3958 03:56:16.520 --> 03:56:20.319 whole night like we're scared, right, We're like, we don't 3959 03:56:20.360 --> 03:56:23.600 know what the fuck is gonna like, who's gonna come. Yeah, 3960 03:56:23.639 --> 03:56:26.879 So we're like it was like this they had a 3961 03:56:26.959 --> 03:56:32.719 central like facility on this this little resort area, and 3962 03:56:32.799 --> 03:56:36.959 so we like climbed. We ended up staying upstairs and 3963 03:56:37.000 --> 03:56:38.799 we were like we're just gonna stay up all night, man. 3964 03:56:38.840 --> 03:56:41.360 And the next morning, like we're getting back on this 3965 03:56:41.440 --> 03:56:46.879 boat and we're out of here. And and so like 3966 03:56:47.600 --> 03:56:50.079 I don't know what time it is in the middle 3967 03:56:50.079 --> 03:56:53.879 of the night, but I end up I he probably 3968 03:56:53.920 --> 03:56:56.680 was dozed off to but it was like it was 3969 03:56:56.719 --> 03:56:59.040 probably like it was still pitch black though, So that's 3970 03:56:59.079 --> 03:57:02.159 the important thing. It was pitch black and the next thing, 3971 03:57:02.200 --> 03:57:04.719 you know, I hear noises and so I like, I 3972 03:57:04.840 --> 03:57:07.479 kind of like get up, but I but I couldn't see. 3973 03:57:08.799 --> 03:57:10.879 And the next thing, you know, I see these red 3974 03:57:10.920 --> 03:57:17.120 eyes and I fucking jump up and I'm like, I 3975 03:57:17.239 --> 03:57:19.559 like jumped up and lunched, and then he jumped up 3976 03:57:19.600 --> 03:57:23.159 and lunched, and then I forget. I think I think 3977 03:57:23.200 --> 03:57:25.399 he like had a like a headlamp or something and 3978 03:57:25.479 --> 03:57:27.600 like turned it on and it was a it was 3979 03:57:27.879 --> 03:57:28.760 a bush baby. 3980 03:57:29.959 --> 03:57:32.000 Do you know what a bush baby is? Yeah, A 3981 03:57:32.040 --> 03:57:34.719 little like kind of marsupial or yeah. Yeah. 3982 03:57:34.760 --> 03:57:37.360 So like in this little area, we had opened like 3983 03:57:37.360 --> 03:57:38.360 some little cookies. 3984 03:57:38.760 --> 03:57:40.799 Like it was like sitting on the table. 3985 03:57:40.920 --> 03:57:43.520 I think it was trying to get these cookies or something. 3986 03:57:44.159 --> 03:57:48.760 So so yeah, So I there's no like great action 3987 03:57:48.920 --> 03:57:51.319 story like where we like tackle them on the beach 3988 03:57:51.399 --> 03:57:55.879 and they drowned them underwater and slit their throats. But 3989 03:57:56.000 --> 03:57:58.399 it was just like, you know, it was just like 3990 03:58:01.040 --> 03:58:04.440 being in an environment where it's like I don't have 3991 03:58:04.520 --> 03:58:08.600 anything to really protect myself, right and in the way 3992 03:58:08.639 --> 03:58:11.600 you're traveling, you're not bringing that stuff. 3993 03:58:12.079 --> 03:58:12.440 You're not. 3994 03:58:13.879 --> 03:58:16.360 And you're not going out and getting it on the economy, 3995 03:58:16.520 --> 03:58:17.520 like you can't have. 3996 03:58:17.520 --> 03:58:20.920 Anything that it's it's not what we're there to do, 3997 03:58:20.959 --> 03:58:24.000 and it's not how we're supposed to be with the 3998 03:58:24.040 --> 03:58:27.479 intent of what we're doing. So so it's just a 3999 03:58:27.559 --> 03:58:30.799 it's a little bit different. And so that was, you know, 4000 03:58:30.840 --> 03:58:36.000 and I experienced that twice once and I think Tanzania 4001 03:58:38.959 --> 03:58:45.879 that up there in Kenya and then and then uh 4002 03:58:46.399 --> 03:58:49.760 got I got uh got robbed in Kenya. That was interesting. 4003 03:58:50.200 --> 03:58:51.719 Well it's car it was like I think it was 4004 03:58:51.760 --> 03:58:55.719 a car jacking, but it was this uh. I guess 4005 03:58:55.760 --> 03:58:59.239 there's these TTPs for thieves and I certainly didn't know it. 4006 03:58:59.280 --> 03:59:02.319 And we had a dry right like at that we 4007 03:59:02.399 --> 03:59:06.360 had like hired a vehicle driver. So we're like driving 4008 03:59:07.760 --> 03:59:12.479 downtown at the UH and Kenya and you know, the 4009 03:59:12.520 --> 03:59:15.440 street it's just swamped and so you're like you can't 4010 03:59:15.440 --> 03:59:17.959 go anywhere and you can't really get out. And we 4011 03:59:18.159 --> 03:59:24.600 had been kind of told like if something happens, it 4012 03:59:24.760 --> 03:59:27.959 wasn't don't fight back, but don't chase people down and 4013 03:59:28.000 --> 03:59:31.120 beat them. They're like, don't do that, you'll get fucked up, 4014 03:59:31.360 --> 03:59:35.600 like they'll mob you. So they kind of police themselves, 4015 03:59:36.280 --> 03:59:39.000 like certain of them if they see it doing it, 4016 03:59:39.079 --> 03:59:43.559 they'll actually not like it. And so so we're like, 4017 03:59:43.760 --> 03:59:46.360 we're like stuck in traffic, and this guy comes and 4018 03:59:46.399 --> 03:59:51.559 he hits the rear view mirror and then so what 4019 03:59:51.600 --> 03:59:52.399 does the driver do? 4020 03:59:53.239 --> 03:59:55.479 Gets No, he rolls, so. 4021 03:59:56.879 --> 03:59:59.239 Rolls down the window. As soon as he rolls down 4022 03:59:59.280 --> 04:00:02.920 the window, another guy walking this way stuck his hand 4023 04:00:02.959 --> 04:00:07.280 in and hit the unlocked button. And as soon as 4024 04:00:07.440 --> 04:00:13.000 that button hit we had one person in every door. 4025 04:00:13.639 --> 04:00:16.719 It was like this door, this door, this door, and 4026 04:00:16.760 --> 04:00:20.239 then the rear gate of the They're like, what are 4027 04:00:20.280 --> 04:00:23.040 they like the Toyota Surfs or whatever kind of vehicles, 4028 04:00:24.200 --> 04:00:26.680 and so there's like five people instantly in the car 4029 04:00:26.760 --> 04:00:30.319 on you, and uh, I think they just they just 4030 04:00:30.360 --> 04:00:33.239 wanted to rob us. But luckily the only thing they 4031 04:00:33.239 --> 04:00:37.639 took was my med bag. So we were like, we 4032 04:00:37.639 --> 04:00:39.600 didn't want him to take all of our computers. Yeah, 4033 04:00:39.639 --> 04:00:43.760 it so we're like, you know, just like sticking our 4034 04:00:43.799 --> 04:00:46.760 hands grabbing everything, and so it happened pretty quick. But uh, 4035 04:00:47.479 --> 04:00:52.840 but that was two exciting things from um from this Wow. 4036 04:00:53.239 --> 04:00:56.159 Yeah, yeah, I don't know if other people have it. 4037 04:00:56.239 --> 04:01:02.040 But but going back to like doing these assessments and 4038 04:01:02.079 --> 04:01:05.360 then going a little bit later into my career, like 4039 04:01:05.959 --> 04:01:08.760 we had written a lot of these we had validated 4040 04:01:08.799 --> 04:01:12.639 a lot of these med plans, and I remember communicating 4041 04:01:12.719 --> 04:01:20.399 back to headquarters. It was either to our headquarters and 4042 04:01:20.440 --> 04:01:23.319 I think they community for us, like I think that 4043 04:01:23.360 --> 04:01:28.440 we don't have enough MED support and HOA like and 4044 04:01:28.440 --> 04:01:32.000 they're like, no, we're fine. And so I can distinctly 4045 04:01:32.040 --> 04:01:35.799 remember there being like a continent map of Africa and 4046 04:01:35.840 --> 04:01:39.440 it's showing all these little dots in HOA and it 4047 04:01:39.479 --> 04:01:41.079 was like, what are you talking about? You don't have 4048 04:01:41.200 --> 04:01:45.040 enough MED support in HOA on the ground. And I 4049 04:01:45.079 --> 04:01:47.879 was like, there's like you see look at look at it. 4050 04:01:48.040 --> 04:01:52.719 And I was like, and I distinctly remember like overlaying 4051 04:01:52.760 --> 04:01:56.360 and sending it back and I overlaid a map of 4052 04:01:56.399 --> 04:02:01.639 the United States to scale, and I'm like, Okay, you 4053 04:02:01.719 --> 04:02:08.319 have an eighteen delta in Florida, you have one in Maine, 4054 04:02:08.879 --> 04:02:13.319 you have one in Arizona, and you have one like 4055 04:02:14.959 --> 04:02:19.360 and you have no great tail assets, right, it's your plan? 4056 04:02:19.479 --> 04:02:23.520 Is I sauce and contract air? Like you know you 4057 04:02:23.600 --> 04:02:26.399 have what are you talking about? You have? And so 4058 04:02:26.479 --> 04:02:31.159 there's been some incidents and and uh, you know some 4059 04:02:31.239 --> 04:02:33.680 of the stuff that I think that we had learned. 4060 04:02:33.719 --> 04:02:35.760 We had had a service member in a Kenya and 4061 04:02:35.799 --> 04:02:39.200 he wasn't part of SOFT, but essentially it was like, 4062 04:02:39.239 --> 04:02:42.360 how guy's access healthcare? So he was, you know, just 4063 04:02:42.440 --> 04:02:46.520 a Kenyon who had joined the army and had had 4064 04:02:46.639 --> 04:02:49.440 went back on vacation. And what a lot of people 4065 04:02:49.440 --> 04:02:52.879 don't realize is I think service members and I don't 4066 04:02:52.920 --> 04:02:56.719 know if SOFT people think like this, but but people 4067 04:02:56.760 --> 04:03:00.159 think like, especially if you're not doing anything swoopy, that 4068 04:03:00.200 --> 04:03:04.920 your ID card is your magic access to healthcare. That 4069 04:03:04.959 --> 04:03:09.000 doesn't play in other place in the world. It's fee 4070 04:03:09.040 --> 04:03:13.239 for service, which means you produce. It doesn't matter that 4071 04:03:13.280 --> 04:03:16.639 you're bleeding out right there. There's people bleeding out everywhere. 4072 04:03:16.959 --> 04:03:19.440 You're going to die there unless you swipe a credit 4073 04:03:19.520 --> 04:03:23.639 card or you have insurance to take care of you. 4074 04:03:24.159 --> 04:03:28.680 And you have to make sure that it's accepted locally 4075 04:03:29.079 --> 04:03:32.360 at that place that you're at. So a lot of 4076 04:03:32.440 --> 04:03:33.399 us was figuring that out. 4077 04:03:33.440 --> 04:03:35.799 So we had a service member I think he was 4078 04:03:36.079 --> 04:03:38.120 he was shot, it was shot or. 4079 04:03:38.120 --> 04:03:43.799 Stabbed something domestically, and essentially he went to the first 4080 04:03:43.840 --> 04:03:47.440 place denied him care in Kenya, went to the second 4081 04:03:47.479 --> 04:03:49.200 place to night care and died at the third place. 4082 04:03:49.239 --> 04:03:53.239 Oh my god, because he thought like his ID card 4083 04:03:53.440 --> 04:03:54.920 was going to take care of him. It had worked 4084 04:03:54.959 --> 04:04:00.200 for him everywhere else. Yeah, and so and so and 4085 04:04:00.239 --> 04:04:03.440 we had actually had you know, unit members who were 4086 04:04:04.319 --> 04:04:10.760 you know, hurt overseas and assaulted, all the above, and 4087 04:04:10.959 --> 04:04:14.000 just making sure that they haven't something to take care 4088 04:04:14.000 --> 04:04:17.760 of them, that that if that happened and they couldn't 4089 04:04:17.959 --> 04:04:21.319 speak for themselves, that they had a mechanism to take 4090 04:04:21.360 --> 04:04:24.840 care of ye and so. And that's a that's a 4091 04:04:25.319 --> 04:04:28.559 it's it's not a sexy thing, but it's hugely important. 4092 04:04:29.600 --> 04:04:34.520 So you know, so leave that kind of kind of there. 4093 04:04:34.559 --> 04:04:38.520 But it's just fascinating because it's a fascinating part of 4094 04:04:39.920 --> 04:04:42.799 you know, of these of these units or. 4095 04:04:43.079 --> 04:04:45.680 Whatever the people. I don't think people really I've never 4096 04:04:45.719 --> 04:04:46.399 thought about it. 4097 04:04:46.600 --> 04:04:49.200 You know, it's not something I've ever thought about, you know, 4098 04:04:49.239 --> 04:04:53.239 the importance of that type of support when there is 4099 04:04:53.319 --> 04:04:54.959 no support, you know. 4100 04:04:56.040 --> 04:05:02.319 Yeah, So that's yeah, there's a So it's so I 4101 04:05:02.440 --> 04:05:05.520 ended up doing doing a couple of trips doing that, 4102 04:05:05.760 --> 04:05:09.479 just validating some things. And then the next big thing 4103 04:05:09.520 --> 04:05:12.360 that I can probably talk about that I did be 4104 04:05:12.520 --> 04:05:18.200 just because it was it was attached back to conventional 4105 04:05:18.280 --> 04:05:23.840 soft was the invisible children stuff, the coney stuff. So 4106 04:05:23.959 --> 04:05:28.159 it was over there, and I think in two thousand 4107 04:05:30.120 --> 04:05:32.000 that was one of the last things I did before 4108 04:05:32.000 --> 04:05:40.559 I left in twenty twelve or thirteen, so and. 4109 04:05:43.719 --> 04:05:45.360 It so that was. 4110 04:05:47.719 --> 04:05:50.239 I'm trying to think of figure out the train of 4111 04:05:50.280 --> 04:05:55.319 thought to describe so people weren't familiar with it. Essentially, 4112 04:05:55.319 --> 04:06:01.120 it's it's this guy like he kind of just took 4113 04:06:01.159 --> 04:06:05.159 people kidnapped and brainwashed them into the into the jungle. 4114 04:06:04.959 --> 04:06:07.239 Turned them into like child soldiers, child. 4115 04:06:07.000 --> 04:06:12.319 Soldiers and so and they mutilated these kids and people, 4116 04:06:12.440 --> 04:06:16.959 cutting their body parts off and and so. 4117 04:06:19.360 --> 04:06:20.799 Yeah, so we got it. 4118 04:06:20.840 --> 04:06:25.079 I got attached to go for that, and so went 4119 04:06:25.120 --> 04:06:28.479 over and that was one of my first chances working 4120 04:06:28.639 --> 04:06:36.120 directly overseas with the organization and or at least some 4121 04:06:36.239 --> 04:06:41.799 folks with the organization. And that was interesting. So it 4122 04:06:41.920 --> 04:06:44.719 kind of speaks to what I would like to speak 4123 04:06:44.760 --> 04:06:48.239 to some of them, like these guys, like they're so unassuming, 4124 04:06:48.360 --> 04:06:52.239 like you would think, like like I don't look like 4125 04:06:52.319 --> 04:06:56.559 most of them, and especially ones that are really like 4126 04:06:57.799 --> 04:07:00.559 doing stuff that no one will ever know about and 4127 04:07:00.600 --> 04:07:04.680 probably don't need to know, although I wish people would know. 4128 04:07:05.200 --> 04:07:07.159 That's the best way I can say it. I wish they. 4129 04:07:07.920 --> 04:07:14.520 I wish our average citizen knew the stakes and the 4130 04:07:14.559 --> 04:07:18.040 price that these guys. This is their life. They've given 4131 04:07:18.079 --> 04:07:21.079 it up for something that no one will ever know about. 4132 04:07:22.120 --> 04:07:25.040 And and when you really think that in perspective, that's 4133 04:07:25.360 --> 04:07:30.200 that's pretty huge commitment. Right. You're not going to read 4134 04:07:30.200 --> 04:07:32.600 about their awards, and you're not going to know their 4135 04:07:32.639 --> 04:07:38.319 exploits and stuff. So yeah, and so, but they don't 4136 04:07:38.879 --> 04:07:41.120 look like you would have to like some of them. 4137 04:07:41.120 --> 04:07:46.000 You'd be like you're a special operator, Like, prove it 4138 04:07:46.040 --> 04:07:49.719 to me, show me some paperwork. There's no fucking way. 4139 04:07:50.719 --> 04:07:54.280 But these guys are so intelligent and fit, and they 4140 04:07:54.399 --> 04:07:59.799 just don't they just don't. They just they just had 4141 04:07:59.879 --> 04:08:03.200 the look that makes them perfect for that job. And 4142 04:08:03.280 --> 04:08:07.000 so on this one, we had this one guy, and 4143 04:08:07.120 --> 04:08:12.319 this guy had this knack for teaching himself languages and 4144 04:08:12.840 --> 04:08:15.479 on this thing because of where they were trying to 4145 04:08:15.559 --> 04:08:19.399 decipher this like codebook. This was the whole thing. It 4146 04:08:19.520 --> 04:08:22.040 was like this guy, that's how they couldn't find him. 4147 04:08:22.319 --> 04:08:24.920 He a tone of I think it's called or something 4148 04:08:25.040 --> 04:08:28.559 essentially it would be like turn to page four and 4149 04:08:28.879 --> 04:08:34.239 he would give his his subordinate leaders instructions through this book. 4150 04:08:34.280 --> 04:08:38.319 And everybody had the decipher manual, and so you know, 4151 04:08:38.360 --> 04:08:42.719 we're trying to break this down, decipher this code. And 4152 04:08:42.799 --> 04:08:47.879 so so we got these brilliant guys the whole inventory 4153 04:08:47.920 --> 04:08:51.440 of DoD. They were looking for somebody because nobody spoke 4154 04:08:51.520 --> 04:08:55.959 this language. That was the other problem. And we had 4155 04:08:56.000 --> 04:09:00.120 this guy who can, like you can learn languages. It 4156 04:09:00.200 --> 04:09:03.280 was fucking crazy, like so I can, you know, like 4157 04:09:03.319 --> 04:09:05.959 we're driving around with him and he's he instantly starts 4158 04:09:06.000 --> 04:09:08.559 talking to everybody and he started learning word learning where 4159 04:09:08.559 --> 04:09:10.360 we're to use them learning word learning what use it? 4160 04:09:10.959 --> 04:09:13.360 And before you know it, he's using full sentences and 4161 04:09:13.399 --> 04:09:17.520 full paragraphs, and you're just like, they're like Google, that's 4162 04:09:17.559 --> 04:09:20.040 what we called him. They're like they're GT Scores, they're 4163 04:09:20.120 --> 04:09:24.159 you know, they're they're apt. It's so high that some 4164 04:09:24.200 --> 04:09:27.079 of them are socially awkward. They're just so intelligent. But 4165 04:09:27.120 --> 04:09:34.040 they're just like these anomalies of service members. And so anyways, 4166 04:09:34.079 --> 04:09:37.159 the inventory they look and so they they finally found 4167 04:09:37.479 --> 04:09:39.920 one guy like he was like a navy on a 4168 04:09:40.040 --> 04:09:43.040 Navy boat who happened to be from East Africa, and 4169 04:09:43.079 --> 04:09:45.040 he was like, I don't know, like a store clerk 4170 04:09:45.120 --> 04:09:47.040 or something. You know, I think the Navy as store 4171 04:09:47.040 --> 04:09:50.319 clerks that work on the boat, and so they flew 4172 04:09:50.360 --> 04:09:52.079 them in. So that was it was like the coolest thing. 4173 04:09:52.120 --> 04:09:54.479 I'm like, man, this is like the reach of this place, 4174 04:09:54.639 --> 04:09:58.040 Like to just reach out to another service and say 4175 04:09:58.600 --> 04:10:00.680 we're taking him because we have a need for me, 4176 04:10:00.680 --> 04:10:02.680 and you don't really get to know what the need 4177 04:10:02.680 --> 04:10:02.959 for me. 4178 04:10:03.079 --> 04:10:06.360 It must have been so cool for that guy too, Yeah, 4179 04:10:06.600 --> 04:10:07.120 you know what I mean. 4180 04:10:07.239 --> 04:10:11.000 Yeah, and so so yeah, so this you know, they're 4181 04:10:11.040 --> 04:10:14.639 doing their thing and this guy's learning this stuff. Uh 4182 04:10:14.680 --> 04:10:19.799 it went on. They they didn't you know, no really 4183 04:10:19.879 --> 04:10:24.760 exciting had another you know, people following a story on 4184 04:10:24.799 --> 04:10:28.680 that one, but it's not too exciting. But but yeah, 4185 04:10:28.719 --> 04:10:32.280 so that was my last trip. And on that trip, 4186 04:10:33.799 --> 04:10:37.040 I found out that I had made E nine and 4187 04:10:37.200 --> 04:10:43.200 so so in that organization, there was only authorizations for 4188 04:10:43.319 --> 04:10:50.239 one medical E nine and so there was actually three 4189 04:10:50.280 --> 04:10:53.440 of us, which is who all made E nine on 4190 04:10:53.479 --> 04:10:56.319 the same list, and uh, one of us got the 4191 04:10:56.399 --> 04:11:01.200 job and it wasn't me. So so that was my time. 4192 04:11:01.559 --> 04:11:02.600 You had to find a new home. 4193 04:11:02.799 --> 04:11:04.280 I had to find a new well. I didn't have 4194 04:11:04.280 --> 04:11:05.799 fun a new I had to go to the academy. 4195 04:11:06.600 --> 04:11:09.479 So I had to go to the Sergeants Major Academy. 4196 04:11:09.520 --> 04:11:12.760 And that's it. That's it. So that's a fun story. 4197 04:11:12.840 --> 04:11:17.000 So and so yeah, so like I, you know, I 4198 04:11:17.040 --> 04:11:21.200 outprocessed the unit and uh, you know, people, I don't 4199 04:11:21.239 --> 04:11:23.680 know if people ever talk about being like read off. 4200 04:11:23.760 --> 04:11:28.040 You know people here talk about read on. I've went 4201 04:11:28.079 --> 04:11:30.959 through a lot of organizations and have gotten read onto 4202 04:11:31.000 --> 04:11:33.879 a lot of things, but very rarely do I ever 4203 04:11:33.920 --> 04:11:34.600 get read off. 4204 04:11:34.600 --> 04:11:37.159 I think that park is like left out often. I 4205 04:11:37.200 --> 04:11:38.879 think that's just like a pencil whip. 4206 04:11:39.000 --> 04:11:40.879 So the unit does not do that. You get a 4207 04:11:40.920 --> 04:11:43.879 formal readoff and you that's when you signed your non 4208 04:11:43.879 --> 04:11:47.840 DISCLOSURELF oh your LifeWay. Yeah, and I've learned those are 4209 04:11:47.879 --> 04:11:51.440 like for service members even after retirement, there's like you know, 4210 04:11:51.520 --> 04:11:55.799 you c MJ, like you still can be held to 4211 04:11:55.840 --> 04:11:57.840 that stuff. So there's you know, That's why I'm like 4212 04:11:57.920 --> 04:12:04.239 a very careful about crossing anyone. So so yeah, so 4213 04:12:04.799 --> 04:12:07.959 now so now you got this guy right, So now 4214 04:12:08.600 --> 04:12:16.159 imagine a guy who went into SAFT as an e 4215 04:12:16.399 --> 04:12:22.600 six now and living his life and civilian clothes from 4216 04:12:23.040 --> 04:12:29.399 six not you know now showing up at the United 4217 04:12:29.399 --> 04:12:34.360 States Army Sergeant Major Academy, I was a piece of work. 4218 04:12:36.040 --> 04:12:38.799 Like, well, fortunately there were a bunch of sergeants majors 4219 04:12:38.799 --> 04:12:39.719 around to let you know. 4220 04:12:40.719 --> 04:12:48.319 No, what you have so is the nation's most qualified 4221 04:12:48.319 --> 04:12:52.000 first sergeants. Everyone five hundred of them in your class. 4222 04:12:52.520 --> 04:12:56.000 So there's five hundred e eights going through this course. 4223 04:12:56.719 --> 04:12:59.760 And and here's the weird thing. 4224 04:12:59.840 --> 04:13:01.079 So, like. 4225 04:13:02.920 --> 04:13:06.680 A service member has to track career track, and so 4226 04:13:06.840 --> 04:13:11.280 since I'm not soft as my core mos now, I 4227 04:13:11.360 --> 04:13:17.440 go back to being medical like hospital medical, like you know. 4228 04:13:19.159 --> 04:13:24.319 And so when you're in those places, like all your 4229 04:13:24.360 --> 04:13:30.799 stuff is classified essentially, and the first thing they want 4230 04:13:30.799 --> 04:13:32.719 you to do when you go to these places are like. 4231 04:13:33.280 --> 04:13:36.040 Write your biography. 4232 04:13:36.399 --> 04:13:40.040 But here's what the organization, the unit doesn't tell you 4233 04:13:40.840 --> 04:13:43.959 how to it reintegrate. There's no course, right, you just 4234 04:13:44.079 --> 04:13:47.639 outprocess and that's it. And I think that's why a 4235 04:13:47.680 --> 04:13:51.920 lot of guys from I'll say these places, because there's 4236 04:13:52.040 --> 04:13:56.879 a lot of places out there. They don't know how 4237 04:13:56.879 --> 04:13:59.280 to integrate, and no one teaches you how to integrate, 4238 04:13:59.479 --> 04:14:03.399 like I got more instruction on how to retire from 4239 04:14:03.479 --> 04:14:11.799 the army than how to RESI assimilate into the army. Right, 4240 04:14:12.000 --> 04:14:14.479 there was zero. It was signed this piece of paper 4241 04:14:15.639 --> 04:14:17.280 and then that's it. 4242 04:14:17.479 --> 04:14:17.600 Ye. 4243 04:14:18.079 --> 04:14:20.520 Next thing you know, you're figuring out how to put 4244 04:14:20.520 --> 04:14:22.879 a uniform on and you show up day one and 4245 04:14:22.920 --> 04:14:24.840 you don't know you're gonna get picked to be like 4246 04:14:24.959 --> 04:14:30.440 make formation or something. Right, like soft isn't good at DNC, Like, 4247 04:14:30.520 --> 04:14:32.680 let's be honest, right, maybe the Rangers are good at 4248 04:14:32.680 --> 04:14:33.959 They're probably the best, right, I. 4249 04:14:35.719 --> 04:14:37.840 Don't know. I mean, I don't know what they'll say 4250 04:14:37.840 --> 04:14:41.559 their leadership. Yeah, I don't know that. 4251 04:14:42.680 --> 04:14:45.079 I don't know that we ever did DNC, like I 4252 04:14:45.079 --> 04:14:48.399 don't I don't know that I've done DNC since or 4253 04:14:48.479 --> 04:14:50.799 that I had done DNC since since basic. 4254 04:14:51.479 --> 04:14:55.440 Okay, so when you have five hundred of the armies 4255 04:14:55.760 --> 04:14:58.440 and what's a joint service school. So there's Navy and 4256 04:14:58.479 --> 04:15:00.559 there's there's a fewer of them, and there's a couple. 4257 04:15:00.600 --> 04:15:04.479 We had like three s F guys in my class. 4258 04:15:05.440 --> 04:15:08.079 Every the best first sergeant and they want to tell 4259 04:15:08.120 --> 04:15:09.760 everybody how they're the best for it. And then you 4260 04:15:09.879 --> 04:15:13.920 got me there. Now granted, now you have to career track. 4261 04:15:15.120 --> 04:15:19.360 I'd never been a platoon sergeant, right, right, I'd never 4262 04:15:19.399 --> 04:15:26.040 been a first sergeant. And now I went from like 4263 04:15:27.920 --> 04:15:32.639 hopping around like just being deployed basically for eleven years 4264 04:15:32.639 --> 04:15:34.079 of my life. That's what I know. I know how 4265 04:15:34.079 --> 04:15:36.719 to deploy. And I'm a fucking good medic, like I 4266 04:15:36.760 --> 04:15:39.959 will run circles around and I feel confidently saying that 4267 04:15:40.280 --> 04:15:44.479 like to the world. And so but what I don't 4268 04:15:44.479 --> 04:15:47.399 know how to do is like basic DNC because I 4269 04:15:47.559 --> 04:15:50.959 haven't done it for right since you you know, you 4270 04:15:51.000 --> 04:15:53.200 go back to your track like ac and be you know, 4271 04:15:53.440 --> 04:15:57.639 basically your MOS schools or your your leadership development schools 4272 04:15:58.159 --> 04:16:00.719 for your pay grade. 4273 04:16:00.920 --> 04:16:03.319 And so yeah, I was. I was a bit of 4274 04:16:03.360 --> 04:16:04.239 a mess. 4275 04:16:04.719 --> 04:16:11.680 And so my classmates had a lot of fun. So yeah, 4276 04:16:11.719 --> 04:16:15.120 so I did the I did, so you do the 4277 04:16:15.159 --> 04:16:21.159 academy that's a year long at Fort Bliss. And and 4278 04:16:21.239 --> 04:16:23.680 because I did, you know, I did well in my career. 4279 04:16:23.879 --> 04:16:26.520 I was a first time command select. 4280 04:16:26.840 --> 04:16:27.639 Wow. 4281 04:16:28.159 --> 04:16:31.600 And so there were servi sers like I think fifty 4282 04:16:31.760 --> 04:16:34.479 medical people in my class. So it's all the medical onmosts, 4283 04:16:34.559 --> 04:16:39.600 not just medics. And and so there's I think there 4284 04:16:39.719 --> 04:16:43.280 was like ten of us who got selected to go 4285 04:16:43.319 --> 04:16:48.000 straight into a command position, and so I did. That's 4286 04:16:48.040 --> 04:16:50.000 even so now you got this dude who can barely 4287 04:16:50.639 --> 04:16:56.399 make formations, like never process soldiers for useeum. That's what 4288 04:16:56.600 --> 04:17:01.280 leadership does, right, It's like take care of soldiers, deal 4289 04:17:01.319 --> 04:17:04.200 with the disciplineary issues and their health and welfare and 4290 04:17:04.280 --> 04:17:08.559 you know that kind of stuff. And so so my 4291 04:17:08.680 --> 04:17:11.120 first assignment though was Alaska. 4292 04:17:11.799 --> 04:17:13.159 So it's like. 4293 04:17:15.280 --> 04:17:17.600 And I didn't know. I was like, well, this will 4294 04:17:17.639 --> 04:17:22.239 be a life experience. So Fairbanks, Alaska. So that was 4295 04:17:22.280 --> 04:17:28.760 my first experience outside of soft and like after running 4296 04:17:28.879 --> 04:17:36.280 for a good period of time and ended up there, and. 4297 04:17:36.280 --> 04:17:37.200 How was that for you? 4298 04:17:39.120 --> 04:17:42.399 I tell you it was. I didn't think it was 4299 04:17:42.440 --> 04:17:46.719 gonna be good because I was in charge of MEDAC Alaska, 4300 04:17:46.760 --> 04:17:49.879 which is essentially all what METAC means is medical activity. 4301 04:17:49.959 --> 04:17:53.559 So all of army medical activities in the state of Alaska. 4302 04:17:54.120 --> 04:17:56.200 That's a lot. The state of Alaska is big. I 4303 04:17:56.200 --> 04:18:01.120 don't know if people know that. And so what I did, though, 4304 04:18:01.680 --> 04:18:10.120 is I focused my time on helping soldiers and and 4305 04:18:10.280 --> 04:18:13.879 doing what I knew best, which was training, which is 4306 04:18:13.920 --> 04:18:17.000 not a CSM's job. I was doing like first art 4307 04:18:17.040 --> 04:18:19.000 and shit. So now I was learning how to be 4308 04:18:19.040 --> 04:18:22.280 a first sergeant, right, maybe a patuone starter and so 4309 04:18:22.360 --> 04:18:24.239 I think I have said a lot of them, but 4310 04:18:24.520 --> 04:18:28.159 I enjoyed it. So I would create programs and and 4311 04:18:28.239 --> 04:18:33.399 when I got to Alaska, though, Korea was starting to 4312 04:18:33.520 --> 04:18:41.639 spark up, and so my the the the nominative cmis. 4313 04:18:41.680 --> 04:18:46.600 So the general officer had known a little bit about me, 4314 04:18:47.520 --> 04:18:53.719 and so he was like, hey, things in careers are 4315 04:18:53.760 --> 04:18:58.319 getting pretty heated, and we don't know if we're going 4316 04:18:58.399 --> 04:19:06.079 to fight on the pena. Can you create a medical 4317 04:19:06.440 --> 04:19:10.680 program because we think that we may have to hold casualties. 4318 04:19:10.719 --> 04:19:12.079 So back to now, we're at. 4319 04:19:12.000 --> 04:19:17.600 Prolonged fielding right right, and this is two thousand and fifteen, 4320 04:19:17.719 --> 04:19:21.959 sixteen is So I went into the position in summer 4321 04:19:22.000 --> 04:19:25.639 of fifteen because the academy graduates every summer. So I 4322 04:19:25.680 --> 04:19:28.840 went in so maybe i'd finished like my pre command 4323 04:19:28.879 --> 04:19:32.120 courses at Levenworth. You got to go learn how to 4324 04:19:32.159 --> 04:19:37.280 be a you know, it's really just a lot of 4325 04:19:37.879 --> 04:19:41.840 it's they're preposition you for prepping you for a command. 4326 04:19:44.040 --> 04:19:45.600 And so he reached out and asked me, can you 4327 04:19:45.639 --> 04:19:48.079 create a course? And so you know, we think this 4328 04:19:48.120 --> 04:19:52.840 thing is and based upon what you've done, you're probably 4329 04:19:52.879 --> 04:19:57.840 the most capable to help us do this. And so 4330 04:19:57.840 --> 04:20:02.159 so I created a program called Delayed Evacuation Casualty Management 4331 04:20:02.360 --> 04:20:06.719 out in a little hospital in the middle of Alaska Fairbanks, 4332 04:20:06.799 --> 04:20:12.520 like central cold Cold Alaska, like negative fifty Alaska. And 4333 04:20:12.600 --> 04:20:15.159 so I pulled together some folks and some stuff that 4334 04:20:15.239 --> 04:20:18.000 I learned over the year, and then some stuff that 4335 04:20:18.120 --> 04:20:20.280 SOFT was working on, because it's kind of the beginning 4336 04:20:20.319 --> 04:20:24.159 of prolonged field care. They were putting together I think 4337 04:20:24.760 --> 04:20:29.000 some committees or organizations and took some principles that they'd 4338 04:20:29.000 --> 04:20:29.600 already developed. 4339 04:20:29.600 --> 04:20:30.479 I didn't develop it. 4340 04:20:30.959 --> 04:20:33.719 And then basically what I tried to do was fill 4341 04:20:33.799 --> 04:20:38.120 the gap, the knowledge gap of the principles of what 4342 04:20:38.159 --> 04:20:42.520 they put together with the knowledge base of the conventional 4343 04:20:42.600 --> 04:20:48.799 medic and try to meld them together. But there's knowledge 4344 04:20:48.840 --> 04:20:54.760 gaps because when you talk about the skill set of 4345 04:20:54.879 --> 04:20:57.479 soft medic or in eighteen delta and then someone you 4346 04:20:57.520 --> 04:21:00.000 know who goes through medic school of three or four 4347 04:21:00.079 --> 04:21:04.799 were months, it's they're vast. And so we put down 4348 04:21:05.040 --> 04:21:08.360 a we put together a really good program and got 4349 04:21:08.360 --> 04:21:14.559 it accredited and and it actually became an army wide 4350 04:21:14.600 --> 04:21:16.399 program for a while. I think it's still taught a 4351 04:21:16.399 --> 04:21:21.159 lot of places today. And so I was up there 4352 04:21:21.159 --> 04:21:22.879 for a couple of years and I got to just 4353 04:21:23.000 --> 04:21:27.040 really just I enjoyed my time. And a lot of 4354 04:21:27.040 --> 04:21:30.159 people say, you're battalion time for folks that don't know 4355 04:21:30.239 --> 04:21:32.799 that's an organization. At least in medical it's about a 4356 04:21:32.920 --> 04:21:38.319 thousand you're supervising roughly about a thousand people. It's a 4357 04:21:38.399 --> 04:21:41.360 little bit larger when you get to your maneuver folks, 4358 04:21:41.399 --> 04:21:42.719 but for medical. 4359 04:21:42.879 --> 04:21:44.520 That's about the density. 4360 04:21:46.639 --> 04:21:49.319 And so really just created programs for him and sent 4361 04:21:49.399 --> 04:21:50.799 them to a lot of cool schools. So the cool 4362 04:21:50.799 --> 04:21:53.079 thing about going to the Academy is you got you know, 4363 04:21:53.239 --> 04:21:57.920 every stard major everywhere. So the network is tremendous. And 4364 04:21:57.959 --> 04:22:00.920 so like if I had a young older that was 4365 04:22:01.079 --> 04:22:07.159 just like doing great things, I could call up, you know, 4366 04:22:07.280 --> 04:22:09.559 the guy from Airborne School and say, hey, I want 4367 04:22:09.559 --> 04:22:11.079 to get this guy a slot. Can you get him 4368 04:22:11.079 --> 04:22:13.840 in and be like, yeah, okay, I can work him in, 4369 04:22:13.959 --> 04:22:16.719 or hey, I want to send somebody here. Hey, And 4370 04:22:16.799 --> 04:22:19.559 so I really just took advantage of just like creating 4371 04:22:19.760 --> 04:22:26.399 educational opportunities and training opportunities and and you know, you 4372 04:22:26.440 --> 04:22:30.440 really can't talk about you or at least I still 4373 04:22:30.479 --> 04:22:34.159 really can't talk a lot about that period of my life. 4374 04:22:34.200 --> 04:22:37.319 But I can let people know that there's some really 4375 04:22:37.360 --> 04:22:42.760 exciting things that the military can offer, and there's some 4376 04:22:42.840 --> 04:22:48.840 people doing things that that are that are tremendous and 4377 04:22:49.719 --> 04:22:54.319 you know, and you can do those things too if 4378 04:22:54.360 --> 04:22:58.639 you seek those opportunities out. And so, you know, just 4379 04:22:58.719 --> 04:23:01.680 having conversations like that, you know a lot of service 4380 04:23:01.719 --> 04:23:04.159 members who were going to get out kind of turned 4381 04:23:04.159 --> 04:23:07.200 them around, and or just people who wanted to go 4382 04:23:07.280 --> 04:23:10.360 to be a soft medic. A good friend of mine 4383 04:23:10.440 --> 04:23:15.280 was the senior stard major at use of SOCC So 4384 04:23:15.360 --> 04:23:19.479 it's like getting a getting a kid to get to 4385 04:23:19.520 --> 04:23:21.760 sock them was you know, just helping him do a 4386 04:23:21.799 --> 04:23:24.959 packet and give him a recommendation. So so I did 4387 04:23:25.000 --> 04:23:29.559 that for that tour and just did a whole lot 4388 04:23:29.600 --> 04:23:33.559 of that actually, and it's what I needed to do. 4389 04:23:33.719 --> 04:23:36.719 You know, the hospital didn't need me to run it. 4390 04:23:36.719 --> 04:23:40.280 It had plenty of six's and doctors and it was 4391 04:23:40.360 --> 04:23:42.680 really just for me. You know, it's a they got 4392 04:23:42.680 --> 04:23:45.120 that saying take care of people and then they'll take 4393 04:23:45.159 --> 04:23:47.120 care of the organization, so I don't have to take 4394 04:23:47.120 --> 04:23:48.520 care of the organization. I to take care of the 4395 04:23:48.520 --> 04:23:52.280 people with the organization. So I did that, and then 4396 04:23:53.520 --> 04:23:57.799 oddly enough, I got a call to go back and 4397 04:23:58.959 --> 04:24:04.360 be the the medical or offered the position to from 4398 04:24:04.399 --> 04:24:08.680 the unit CSM to go be the the medical side 4399 04:24:08.719 --> 04:24:15.120 start major. Now there's a downside of this story. That's 4400 04:24:15.120 --> 04:24:18.000 what I wanted to do that. I wanted nothing more 4401 04:24:18.079 --> 04:24:22.360 than to do that. But the next Command Select list 4402 04:24:22.399 --> 04:24:25.879 came out and I'd been selected again. And so then 4403 04:24:25.920 --> 04:24:30.280 I was selected for a brigade. And when you're on 4404 04:24:30.319 --> 04:24:34.319 what's on the command select list, only the start major 4405 04:24:34.319 --> 04:24:35.600 of the army can take you off it. 4406 04:24:35.719 --> 04:24:36.799 Oh really okay? 4407 04:24:37.520 --> 04:24:40.879 And and the position at the unit did not qualify 4408 04:24:40.959 --> 04:24:43.639 it was it was it below a command position. 4409 04:24:44.040 --> 04:24:46.920 Yeah, so it's if you you would almost be going 4410 04:24:46.959 --> 04:24:51.239 back and they'll look you do that sometimes, Yeah, like 4411 04:24:51.600 --> 04:24:54.319 if you're getting out. I was still at the time, 4412 04:24:54.559 --> 04:24:58.799 staying in and and I don't know how much time 4413 04:24:58.879 --> 04:24:59.799 we have, but I. 4414 04:24:59.719 --> 04:25:05.760 Mean we we are we we are deep in it. 4415 04:25:06.079 --> 04:25:09.799 Uh we're at four hours and thirty minutes right now. 4416 04:25:09.879 --> 04:25:10.680 Holy yeah. 4417 04:25:11.239 --> 04:25:14.440 But but but I want this is your story I 4418 04:25:14.479 --> 04:25:15.440 want you to tell it. 4419 04:25:15.840 --> 04:25:17.920 No, it's a long story. So I'll try to. I'll 4420 04:25:17.959 --> 04:25:22.879 try to. Yeah, d are you all right? All right? 4421 04:25:23.239 --> 04:25:25.120 Our audience is holding tight, okay. 4422 04:25:25.200 --> 04:25:31.799 So and so so here's what. So I got offered 4423 04:25:31.799 --> 04:25:35.000 the position. That's what I wanted to do. But I 4424 04:25:35.079 --> 04:25:39.799 made the command select list. And when you when you 4425 04:25:40.399 --> 04:25:42.840 when you're going in the command process, you get to 4426 04:25:42.879 --> 04:25:46.920 select your preferences. And I had actually got not only 4427 04:25:47.000 --> 04:25:50.360 make the command selectlist, but got the number one job 4428 04:25:50.399 --> 04:25:53.600 that I wanted. So I got my pick. And I 4429 04:25:53.639 --> 04:25:56.319 had started my career in Hawaii and I wanted to 4430 04:25:56.399 --> 04:26:00.040 end it there. So I got selected to go and 4431 04:26:00.559 --> 04:26:03.959 take Tripler to be the CSM there. 4432 04:26:04.360 --> 04:26:05.280 That's what I wanted. 4433 04:26:05.079 --> 04:26:07.920 Because I was like, like I was saying, and I'll 4434 04:26:08.079 --> 04:26:12.399 and I'll get into it. You know, my in Alaska, 4435 04:26:12.520 --> 04:26:18.399 my PTSD kind of started to act up, and you know, 4436 04:26:19.239 --> 04:26:24.000 I had had some I had had a a about 4437 04:26:24.040 --> 04:26:28.559 of where I was, you know, suicidal, and I had 4438 04:26:28.600 --> 04:26:31.639 went and talked to a health care provider there and 4439 04:26:31.719 --> 04:26:35.559 they had got me back health and I some help 4440 04:26:35.680 --> 04:26:39.760 and I started some medications and actually when got the 4441 04:26:39.760 --> 04:26:44.600 Stella ganglion block four fifth or six times. I had 4442 04:26:44.639 --> 04:26:48.600 already had it multiple times before, and uh, and I'll 4443 04:26:48.639 --> 04:26:50.879 get to that pretty quick. So because I think it's 4444 04:26:50.879 --> 04:27:00.440 an important aspect, but essentially got offered that job, couldn't 4445 04:27:00.440 --> 04:27:02.200 get it because I couldn't get off the Command Select 4446 04:27:02.200 --> 04:27:06.479 list and then the Medcom commit So the Medical Command 4447 04:27:06.639 --> 04:27:10.959 so CSM called me and he's like, hey, you're right, 4448 04:27:11.000 --> 04:27:13.479 I just want to let you know that the I 4449 04:27:13.479 --> 04:27:16.040 don't know if the list had been released yet or 4450 04:27:16.040 --> 04:27:22.200 it was getting released, but he's like, hey, I've heard 4451 04:27:22.200 --> 04:27:24.840 about all the great things you're doing in Alaska in 4452 04:27:24.840 --> 04:27:29.959 this program you created. I'm gonna pull you from why 4453 04:27:30.000 --> 04:27:33.520 you got what you wanted, but I need you to 4454 04:27:33.600 --> 04:27:36.799 go to Fort Bragg and do everything you're doing to 4455 04:27:36.840 --> 04:27:44.200 their times ten. And I'm like, what do you say? 4456 04:27:44.440 --> 04:27:47.360 Yeah, no, yeah, Roger, that. 4457 04:27:47.159 --> 04:27:49.920 That's what you said. Like, no problem, story maker, you know. 4458 04:27:50.239 --> 04:27:52.440 And so they switched my order. So not only did 4459 04:27:52.440 --> 04:27:55.760 I not get to go back to the unit, I 4460 04:27:55.840 --> 04:27:59.479 was switched and went to Fort Bragg and so I 4461 04:27:59.520 --> 04:28:03.440 went to Walmac Army Medical Center and that's where I 4462 04:28:03.520 --> 04:28:04.319 ended my career. 4463 04:28:06.399 --> 04:28:08.239 But my. 4464 04:28:09.680 --> 04:28:12.280 And so I you know, without going in the programs 4465 04:28:12.280 --> 04:28:14.920 are really not important. But I created a couple more 4466 04:28:14.959 --> 04:28:18.920 programs or just invigorated some that were going in and 4467 04:28:19.159 --> 04:28:22.520 had a lot of success with just getting conventional army 4468 04:28:22.559 --> 04:28:27.760 medics paramedic qualified and critical care paramedic qualified and then 4469 04:28:28.479 --> 04:28:30.680 the prolonged field care stuff making sure that they had 4470 04:28:30.719 --> 04:28:31.399 access to that. 4471 04:28:32.319 --> 04:28:34.760 But really my health, mental health. 4472 04:28:34.559 --> 04:28:38.920 Started deteriorating, and so I had had my first stelic 4473 04:28:38.959 --> 04:28:42.559 ganglium block. So, again getting to the professionals of the 4474 04:28:42.680 --> 04:28:49.200 units without mentioning his name, he had introduced it into 4475 04:28:49.280 --> 04:28:55.639 SOFT for you know, a sympathetic chain block to essentially 4476 04:28:55.680 --> 04:29:00.879 alleviate the autonomic nervous system dysfunction of PTSD. Yeah, the 4477 04:29:00.959 --> 04:29:03.920 hypervigilants to kind of turn the swe light switch off, 4478 04:29:04.200 --> 04:29:05.680 and hopefully I did that justice. 4479 04:29:05.799 --> 04:29:09.680 So, so we're talking about sticking a needle with isokine, So. 4480 04:29:09.559 --> 04:29:13.000 Sticking a leader I think it's rapivocane. It's in the family. 4481 04:29:13.040 --> 04:29:17.680 It's a long acting lytocane into your neck to essentially 4482 04:29:17.760 --> 04:29:20.559 blocking that tone for about I think it's like four 4483 04:29:20.600 --> 04:29:24.719 to six hours, which is enough time to reset your system. 4484 04:29:25.319 --> 04:29:27.120 And so our. 4485 04:29:26.959 --> 04:29:31.719 Physicians at the unit brought that into SOFT and then 4486 04:29:31.799 --> 04:29:34.520 they went around and trained and that's one of the dynamite. 4487 04:29:34.559 --> 04:29:35.799 One of the things that I got to do. I 4488 04:29:35.840 --> 04:29:40.200 got to fly to the other units and these operators 4489 04:29:40.200 --> 04:29:47.600 who had twenty plus rotations overseas, you know, help them 4490 04:29:47.639 --> 04:29:52.760 with their provide them symptomatic relief and and so we 4491 04:29:53.840 --> 04:29:58.559 So I had gotten that in Alaska at this time, 4492 04:29:58.600 --> 04:30:02.200 it wasn't working for me. I had never did medications, 4493 04:30:02.200 --> 04:30:04.639 so I got switched on medications. And once I got 4494 04:30:04.639 --> 04:30:07.280 to Womack, and I was there for a while doing things, 4495 04:30:07.319 --> 04:30:10.280 and then you know, I'm kind of speeding this along. 4496 04:30:11.200 --> 04:30:17.479 But essentially the shots weren't working, and the medications weren't working, 4497 04:30:17.680 --> 04:30:20.479 and I was feeling like dead to the world. And 4498 04:30:20.559 --> 04:30:27.840 so it's where Army medicine almost killed me. I say 4499 04:30:27.840 --> 04:30:33.760 that lightly but with all seriousness. The provider switched my 4500 04:30:33.799 --> 04:30:39.239 medications and sent me TD why. And so they abruptly 4501 04:30:39.319 --> 04:30:43.239 stopped me off one medication, started me on another, and 4502 04:30:43.280 --> 04:30:45.959 then sent me TD why. And then, oh my god, 4503 04:30:46.000 --> 04:30:49.239 I went off the rails. And at the same time, 4504 04:30:49.360 --> 04:30:53.520 my son, but all three of my sons were active 4505 04:30:53.600 --> 04:30:57.559 duty at that No, my youngest was not yet he 4506 04:30:57.680 --> 04:31:01.239 is now. My middle son was not doing well. He 4507 04:31:01.399 --> 04:31:07.840 was active duty at for Bragg and and so just 4508 04:31:07.959 --> 04:31:11.200 the hurricane of events had caught up to me, and 4509 04:31:11.440 --> 04:31:22.280 essentially long story short, self admitted myself to in patience. 4510 04:31:22.719 --> 04:31:27.360 Why no, no, So I had gotten back. Luckily I 4511 04:31:27.360 --> 04:31:30.239 had gotten back, and I immediately went to work and 4512 04:31:30.239 --> 04:31:34.639 I went up to we to the executive medicine place 4513 04:31:34.719 --> 04:31:38.920 it there, and I was like, hey, you know, I 4514 04:31:39.440 --> 04:31:44.120 think I'm gonna hurt myself. So they immediately, you know, 4515 04:31:44.159 --> 04:31:47.120 I got I got treated well with dignitium respect and 4516 04:31:48.120 --> 04:31:53.440 but spent a week in impatient and uh and then 4517 04:31:53.680 --> 04:32:02.079 three months and outpatient, got flown to San Antonio and 4518 04:32:02.079 --> 04:32:05.840 and yeah, then. 4519 04:32:04.959 --> 04:32:09.920 So you took a step that most I want to 4520 04:32:09.920 --> 04:32:13.479 say most active duty soldiers will not take. 4521 04:32:14.360 --> 04:32:14.399 You. 4522 04:32:14.799 --> 04:32:20.479 You recognize what was going on, and you took steps 4523 04:32:20.520 --> 04:32:24.879 to address it right, which which I think not only 4524 04:32:24.920 --> 04:32:27.879 will not a lot of veterans do that, but a 4525 04:32:27.879 --> 04:32:30.159 lot of but especially a lot of actors, because they're 4526 04:32:30.200 --> 04:32:33.799 concerned about how it's going to affect their career if 4527 04:32:33.799 --> 04:32:37.239 they're soft, like, is it going to make them ineligible? 4528 04:32:39.319 --> 04:32:41.520 You know, I mean, I know that you're going through 4529 04:32:42.239 --> 04:32:45.639 like a lot at this time, but you are also 4530 04:32:45.799 --> 04:32:46.559 seeking help. 4531 04:32:47.360 --> 04:32:51.760 What what was it? 4532 04:32:52.200 --> 04:32:55.959 What advice would you give soldiers, especially when they're active 4533 04:32:56.000 --> 04:32:57.079 duty and veterans. 4534 04:32:57.079 --> 04:32:59.879 But what advice would you give them? That took a lot, 4535 04:33:00.479 --> 04:33:02.520 That took a lot of strength. 4536 04:33:05.520 --> 04:33:12.080 It did. The advice that I can get them give 4537 04:33:12.119 --> 04:33:17.959 them is is people are are feeling the same way 4538 04:33:18.000 --> 04:33:22.680 you're feeling, and the first step is the hardest one, 4539 04:33:24.200 --> 04:33:27.560 and it gets easier after that. At least my experience, 4540 04:33:28.000 --> 04:33:34.040 it got easier after that. So yeah, but it was 4541 04:33:35.360 --> 04:33:38.880 it wasn't It's not to say that was easy and 4542 04:33:40.680 --> 04:33:48.279 or professionally embarrassing, and so that's you know, I struggle 4543 04:33:48.319 --> 04:33:50.560 with that a lot. You know, that's not the way 4544 04:33:50.560 --> 04:33:52.680 I wanted to end my career. I had a pretty 4545 04:33:52.720 --> 04:33:57.560 good career and i'd actually been made the select list 4546 04:33:57.639 --> 04:34:01.720 for a second brigade or two. Essentially I'd probably be 4547 04:34:02.200 --> 04:34:05.680 at the general officer level. I know I would. That's 4548 04:34:05.880 --> 04:34:09.720 I was fast tracking that way, and folks kind of 4549 04:34:09.720 --> 04:34:13.279 had plans for me, and I'd probably upset those plans, 4550 04:34:14.599 --> 04:34:19.439 and so I it's just to have courage. It's personal courage, 4551 04:34:19.439 --> 04:34:22.000 really is what it is. And it's it's taking care 4552 04:34:22.040 --> 04:34:30.520 of yourself and taking for yourself because after the military, 4553 04:34:30.680 --> 04:34:36.360 that's it, man. Yeah, like you're what you have. The 4554 04:34:36.479 --> 04:34:41.439 VA system is what it is. Start it while you're in. 4555 04:34:41.560 --> 04:34:44.319 I would say, it's much harder. Once you're out, it's 4556 04:34:44.400 --> 04:34:48.319 so much harder. And and so I went through the 4557 04:34:48.360 --> 04:34:52.119 med board process, and so you know, I was I 4558 04:34:52.759 --> 04:34:57.000 joke about it. But you know a lot of people say, 4559 04:34:57.040 --> 04:35:00.279 the older guy, it's the body's broke, broke, but the 4560 04:35:00.319 --> 04:35:03.159 mind is strong, and I was the opposite. 4561 04:35:03.720 --> 04:35:04.639 The body is strong. 4562 04:35:04.880 --> 04:35:07.840 I could keep up with any of those guys, and 4563 04:35:07.880 --> 04:35:12.159 I probably still could to this day. But the mind 4564 04:35:12.240 --> 04:35:16.479 was destroyed. And so I, you know, and I really 4565 04:35:16.520 --> 04:35:19.759 embrace and this is going to probably rub some people 4566 04:35:19.799 --> 04:35:25.439 the wrong way. I embrace the D of PTSD. And 4567 04:35:25.520 --> 04:35:28.240 a lot of people tried to erase the D. And 4568 04:35:28.279 --> 04:35:35.840 I'll tell you the disorder is what it was, dysfunction, disability, disarray. 4569 04:35:36.279 --> 04:35:41.279 Everything was messed up and so it was a disorder. 4570 04:35:42.479 --> 04:35:46.479 It was one hundred percent things weren't right. And so 4571 04:35:47.159 --> 04:35:50.880 you know, I you know it. While post traumatic stress 4572 04:35:50.959 --> 04:35:55.880 is a normal response to a traumatic event, it can 4573 04:35:55.959 --> 04:35:59.000 certainly leave you in disorder. And it is it I 4574 04:36:00.200 --> 04:36:03.000 And maybe I'm looking at it through the long wrong lens. 4575 04:36:03.279 --> 04:36:05.360 And maybe a clinician would think about it a little 4576 04:36:05.400 --> 04:36:08.520 bit different, but so to me, it's like acknowledging that 4577 04:36:08.560 --> 04:36:11.720 things aren't orderly. That's what I think is important, and 4578 04:36:11.759 --> 04:36:16.159 that's what I think that the Stella Ganglian Bloc provided 4579 04:36:16.880 --> 04:36:19.639 was a reset long enough to figure out what orderly 4580 04:36:19.759 --> 04:36:23.400 felt like, felt like felt like because you kind of 4581 04:36:23.400 --> 04:36:26.319 feel the way to the world. But as it is, 4582 04:36:26.639 --> 04:36:29.000 I would say, because you have to do the work 4583 04:36:29.680 --> 04:36:33.959 because all of that stuff, right, and I experienced a 4584 04:36:34.040 --> 04:36:38.040 little bit of combat, if you will, right, there's I'm 4585 04:36:38.080 --> 04:36:41.240 certainly no war hero, and I certainly wasn't in any 4586 04:36:41.319 --> 04:36:46.400 famous battle, but my rucksack got filled, and probably some 4587 04:36:46.479 --> 04:36:50.680 of those guys got much larger rucksacks. And you have 4588 04:36:50.759 --> 04:36:57.159 to process that stuff, and you certainly have to do 4589 04:36:57.240 --> 04:37:00.439 the work to deal with it and unpack it, because 4590 04:37:00.479 --> 04:37:04.400 you can only compartmentalize for so wrong. And I think, like, man, 4591 04:37:04.479 --> 04:37:06.720 I don't know if you do experience this, but there's 4592 04:37:06.759 --> 04:37:10.759 so much of my deployment time I forget whole, Like 4593 04:37:10.799 --> 04:37:13.759 I don't even remember hold the points. I'm like, I'm like, 4594 04:37:13.840 --> 04:37:20.200 how I remember a whole deployment. I've completely double wrapped that, 4595 04:37:21.119 --> 04:37:25.240 you know, that package sealed it twice yeah, and compartmentalized it, 4596 04:37:26.759 --> 04:37:30.240 and it's buried so deep that like even thinking about 4597 04:37:30.240 --> 04:37:32.360 coming on here, I had to like go back and 4598 04:37:32.400 --> 04:37:36.560 try to open those packaged bags and say what did 4599 04:37:36.560 --> 04:37:39.360 I do on that trip? Like what's what's what? What's 4600 04:37:39.360 --> 04:37:44.840 something I can share? And so you know, that's if 4601 04:37:44.880 --> 04:37:49.279 you don't unpack it, eventually it's gonna that maybe that 4602 04:37:49.400 --> 04:37:51.680 packaging is gonna wear off or rub a hole, and 4603 04:37:51.720 --> 04:37:54.680 it's gonna rear its head, and so you need to 4604 04:37:54.720 --> 04:37:58.639 process it. So I think that gives you some symptomatic 4605 04:37:58.720 --> 04:38:04.919 relief and provide you the opportunity to take a deliberate 4606 04:38:06.639 --> 04:38:09.720 or to take a deliberate action, to actually take the 4607 04:38:09.759 --> 04:38:13.680 time to deal with it. And so you know, I'm 4608 04:38:13.720 --> 04:38:15.680 a much better place. You know, I didn't really talk 4609 04:38:15.720 --> 04:38:19.240 about the DC times. You know, working in that unit, 4610 04:38:20.080 --> 04:38:23.840 I traveled an hour every day and everybody has their movie. 4611 04:38:24.159 --> 04:38:26.119 I'll call it my movie that plays in my head, 4612 04:38:26.599 --> 04:38:28.959 and my movie was strong at that period of time 4613 04:38:29.599 --> 04:38:32.799 in an hour and rush hour traffic. For your movie 4614 04:38:32.840 --> 04:38:36.880 to play over and over and over again every day 4615 04:38:37.599 --> 04:38:41.439 for years, that's what beat me up. And so when 4616 04:38:41.439 --> 04:38:45.080 I left, I went again back to an educational thing 4617 04:38:45.959 --> 04:38:51.360 so new and exciting suppress then you routine sets in 4618 04:38:51.799 --> 04:38:55.279 and you know, call them what you want, your demons 4619 04:38:55.360 --> 04:39:00.240 or whatever rear their head. But essentially then you know 4620 04:39:00.240 --> 04:39:02.159 you've got to suppress it. And I think so people 4621 04:39:02.159 --> 04:39:06.159 suppress it through you know, adventurous activities or there's a 4622 04:39:06.200 --> 04:39:09.200 lot of things people do, but you got to deal 4623 04:39:09.200 --> 04:39:09.479 with it. 4624 04:39:10.159 --> 04:39:13.799 And then because you know, we're talking about post my stress, 4625 04:39:13.799 --> 04:39:17.439 but then you throw in TBI or you throw in 4626 04:39:17.680 --> 04:39:22.639 operator syndrome like it is medicine. Like do they even 4627 04:39:22.720 --> 04:39:25.520 know at this point where one start, one ends and 4628 04:39:25.560 --> 04:39:26.520 the other begins. 4629 04:39:27.080 --> 04:39:30.599 I don't think so, because I think only again, like 4630 04:39:30.680 --> 04:39:34.680 to me, some of my stuff I think was moral injury, right, yeah, yeah, 4631 04:39:34.720 --> 04:39:37.840 and that's what mine was. I think people weren't using 4632 04:39:37.880 --> 04:39:38.759 that word for a long time. 4633 04:39:38.759 --> 04:39:38.880 Now. 4634 04:39:39.000 --> 04:39:43.560 I put it first on this show like two years ago. 4635 04:39:43.919 --> 04:39:45.720 And so that's what I think, because I couldn't relate, 4636 04:39:45.840 --> 04:39:50.919 like and when I went through the extensive outpatient program. 4637 04:39:50.959 --> 04:39:54.119 There's a lot of things that you do that you're like, no, no, 4638 04:39:54.200 --> 04:39:58.880 I initiated the action. I wasn't in reaction mode. I 4639 04:39:58.959 --> 04:40:02.560 initiated the action. And so for me, this is right 4640 04:40:02.599 --> 04:40:07.599 and wrong. Yes, this isn't so everybody's trauma is different everybody, 4641 04:40:08.599 --> 04:40:11.720 no one's trauma is any special or than anybody else's, right, right, 4642 04:40:11.759 --> 04:40:12.880 And that's I learned that there. 4643 04:40:12.880 --> 04:40:15.080 It's like, hey man, I can't just. 4644 04:40:15.040 --> 04:40:17.759 Because you don't have the coolest of cool guys store 4645 04:40:17.799 --> 04:40:20.639 to go with your baggage doesn't mean I should say 4646 04:40:20.639 --> 04:40:25.840 that it doesn't affect you a certain way. But but yeah, 4647 04:40:25.880 --> 04:40:30.000 so I think there's that. So there's moral injury, there's 4648 04:40:29.639 --> 04:40:34.520 the PTSD stuff, there's the traumatic Bain injury. So I 4649 04:40:34.599 --> 04:40:36.479 don't know if they've got any of that figured out, 4650 04:40:36.479 --> 04:40:39.919 and I can certainly tell you from all of the 4651 04:40:39.919 --> 04:40:43.400 the shelling and just you know, when one twenties. 4652 04:40:43.040 --> 04:40:46.759 Comes shock, I'm holy, it's a very real thing, right. 4653 04:40:46.799 --> 04:40:47.680 Oh yeah. 4654 04:40:48.040 --> 04:40:51.680 And there's also the idea that there are some you know, 4655 04:40:51.720 --> 04:40:54.639 there are some events for some people that are the 4656 04:40:54.639 --> 04:40:58.880 in truth, the like the inciting incident, and then for 4657 04:40:58.959 --> 04:41:02.880 other people it's just like years of being on the 4658 04:41:03.000 --> 04:41:05.439 edge and there's not like one thing. 4659 04:41:05.319 --> 04:41:10.479 That pops out, it's just all of it get together. 4660 04:41:11.479 --> 04:41:16.439 And then like the identity so pro separation, that's the divolent. 4661 04:41:16.799 --> 04:41:18.799 So that's the encouragement I would say, so the advice 4662 04:41:19.799 --> 04:41:22.880 deal with things before you lose your tribe, because I 4663 04:41:22.919 --> 04:41:27.799 think when people lose their tribe, then they've lost their identity, 4664 04:41:27.799 --> 04:41:32.119 they lost their connection, and they go into isolation. So 4665 04:41:32.279 --> 04:41:41.520 two unit medics have now committed suicide, one recently, and 4666 04:41:41.639 --> 04:41:45.680 so it was that's a tough toll. They both to 4667 04:41:45.840 --> 04:41:50.599 one was one of my direct reports. They both hung themselves. 4668 04:41:52.560 --> 04:41:57.000 And you're talking about two out of a tiny, yes popular, 4669 04:41:57.040 --> 04:41:58.000 two out of like. 4670 04:42:00.159 --> 04:42:05.840 Less than ten people. And a third A guy called 4671 04:42:05.880 --> 04:42:09.040 me recently and I talked to him before this show. 4672 04:42:09.599 --> 04:42:12.200 He called me with a gun in his hand, crying, 4673 04:42:12.639 --> 04:42:17.279 and I didn't know what to do. And I had 4674 04:42:17.279 --> 04:42:22.880 been there and he called me and he I, so 4675 04:42:24.040 --> 04:42:25.840 I'll tell his story, and he told me it's okay 4676 04:42:25.880 --> 04:42:29.520 if I tell his story. He he shot a little 4677 04:42:29.599 --> 04:42:33.360 kid and he didn't mean to and he's been dealing 4678 04:42:33.400 --> 04:42:35.680 with that baggage and he's probably on here right now, 4679 04:42:35.919 --> 04:42:38.520 and I hope it doesn't tear him up. And uh, 4680 04:42:38.680 --> 04:42:42.639 and I think about him a lot. And and so 4681 04:42:43.319 --> 04:42:45.360 he called me and I was worried he was gonna, 4682 04:42:46.000 --> 04:42:49.599 you know, blow his head off with me there, and 4683 04:42:49.959 --> 04:42:55.880 I am like messaging his daughter through LinkedIn, and I'm 4684 04:42:55.919 --> 04:43:02.400 calling unit past unit doctors saying, hey, such and such, 4685 04:43:02.479 --> 04:43:05.840 I think this is it and I don't know what 4686 04:43:05.919 --> 04:43:08.439 to do. I'm not close enough where I can help them, 4687 04:43:09.159 --> 04:43:11.279 and so I'm just trying to talk him through it. 4688 04:43:11.360 --> 04:43:16.319 And luckily he did it and he's you know, but 4689 04:43:17.279 --> 04:43:19.400 you know, you got to check on people. People say that, 4690 04:43:19.479 --> 04:43:22.040 but do they really do it? You know what I mean? People, 4691 04:43:22.919 --> 04:43:25.520 it's kind of cliche, I think a little bit. But 4692 04:43:26.639 --> 04:43:33.119 and so you got to keep your keep your network 4693 04:43:33.159 --> 04:43:35.759 close and check on those guys, because that's what it happens, 4694 04:43:35.840 --> 04:43:38.720 is exactly like you describe. People get out, they think 4695 04:43:38.759 --> 04:43:42.919 it's over with, and then they actually are forced to 4696 04:43:42.959 --> 04:43:44.759 deal with it. But now they're dealing with it alone. 4697 04:43:45.439 --> 04:43:48.799 And I'll tell you when I was going, when I 4698 04:43:48.840 --> 04:43:51.319 first got help, the doctor sent me to go and 4699 04:43:51.360 --> 04:43:55.360 Walter read and she I'll never forget. So she had 4700 04:43:55.360 --> 04:43:57.000 a painting on the wall and it was behind me, 4701 04:43:57.520 --> 04:44:00.279 and it was a painting of a flowery past with 4702 04:44:00.319 --> 04:44:05.240 a house and she said, she said, all of you 4703 04:44:05.319 --> 04:44:12.360 guys are basically like garbage men. She was like, the 4704 04:44:12.400 --> 04:44:15.799 world needs you, but you stink and people don't want 4705 04:44:15.840 --> 04:44:19.159 to sit next to you in church, so all of 4706 04:44:19.200 --> 04:44:22.200 you guys want to live there. And she pointed, and 4707 04:44:22.240 --> 04:44:26.520 I was like, it was kind of messed up, but 4708 04:44:26.599 --> 04:44:28.479 I knew what she was saying. Yeah, it was like 4709 04:44:28.560 --> 04:44:31.880 they want to be alone. And so the last medic 4710 04:44:32.880 --> 04:44:40.040 and they've actually had more unit members commit suicide. He 4711 04:44:40.159 --> 04:44:45.479 lived in the middle of nowhere with his family, and 4712 04:44:45.720 --> 04:44:50.279 you know, his family found him and I hope they're not, 4713 04:44:50.639 --> 04:44:52.680 you know, listening to me retell it, but I just 4714 04:44:53.119 --> 04:44:57.840 it's so vivid and tragic. You know, his daughter found 4715 04:44:57.919 --> 04:45:06.880 him hanging in a tree in the middle of their backyard. 4716 04:45:08.040 --> 04:45:08.759 Like that's a lot. 4717 04:45:09.159 --> 04:45:13.279 Yeah, and so, and I can tell you that's my 4718 04:45:13.400 --> 04:45:18.360 appreciation for the unit. And and hopefully I didn't discredit 4719 04:45:18.479 --> 04:45:23.439 or do anything out of turn or overspeak, but every 4720 04:45:24.520 --> 04:45:31.040 almost every medical member of my time span stopped everything 4721 04:45:31.040 --> 04:45:33.919 they were doing and all flew and went to his funeral. 4722 04:45:35.479 --> 04:45:38.119 And I don't know if everybody would do that in 4723 04:45:38.200 --> 04:45:43.599 every organization you hear about people passing away. But and so, 4724 04:45:45.560 --> 04:45:48.200 you know, I have the utmost respect for the organization, 4725 04:45:48.759 --> 04:45:53.080 how they take care of their people. Hopefully, you know, 4726 04:45:53.159 --> 04:45:56.360 people appreciate what I did there. And you know what 4727 04:45:57.400 --> 04:46:01.639 I provided and again, you know, hopefully didn't do anything 4728 04:46:01.720 --> 04:46:08.040 to divulge anything or upset anybody, but you know, I 4729 04:46:08.200 --> 04:46:13.000 just really respect them and uh what they do and 4730 04:46:13.040 --> 04:46:15.919 how they dedicate themselves to something that no one would 4731 04:46:15.959 --> 04:46:20.159 know about. And then this is the ugly side of it, 4732 04:46:20.919 --> 04:46:23.200 and that's what's important to know. And I know there's 4733 04:46:23.319 --> 04:46:28.400 people who have came out and they've kind of been 4734 04:46:28.439 --> 04:46:35.000 in these similar places, but you know, like they've lost 4735 04:46:35.000 --> 04:46:35.639 their tribe. 4736 04:46:35.880 --> 04:46:42.680 Yeah, it's and I think one of the challenges of 4737 04:46:43.119 --> 04:46:50.159 people in organizations like that is when you're sitting in 4738 04:46:50.200 --> 04:46:55.240 front of a doctor or a therapist, you know, a psychologist, whatever. 4739 04:46:56.279 --> 04:46:58.919 Like what can you tell them? You know what? What 4740 04:46:59.759 --> 04:47:02.680 you know? What are you know? 4741 04:47:03.000 --> 04:47:06.439 What are you allowed to talk about? Are are they cleared? 4742 04:47:06.159 --> 04:47:08.680 And I know that. 4743 04:47:08.759 --> 04:47:12.759 The organization ones obviously are. But here's the thing. So 4744 04:47:15.159 --> 04:47:18.240 when I went to the in depth, I specifically did 4745 04:47:18.279 --> 04:47:21.520 not want a military person. I said, give me a civilian. 4746 04:47:22.479 --> 04:47:26.599 I don't want a military person who's medical thinking they 4747 04:47:26.680 --> 04:47:30.279 know what I've been through because they've experienced their version 4748 04:47:30.279 --> 04:47:33.840 of combat. Everybody experiences their own deployment. When I say 4749 04:47:33.840 --> 04:47:37.319 the word deployment, you have your vision in your head 4750 04:47:37.400 --> 04:47:39.759 of your experience when I say to my I have 4751 04:47:39.840 --> 04:47:42.159 my own and so does everyone else who's experienced it. 4752 04:47:42.959 --> 04:47:48.000 So I didn't want someone to think they known, like 4753 04:47:48.319 --> 04:47:52.959 I know what you're dealing with. So I wanted someone 4754 04:47:53.000 --> 04:47:57.119 specifically he didn't have. They only could just kind of 4755 04:47:57.159 --> 04:48:00.560 relate to me on a human level. And that's the 4756 04:48:00.599 --> 04:48:05.080 information that I was giving them. And so but as 4757 04:48:05.080 --> 04:48:08.319 far as what you, I think you're still supposed to 4758 04:48:09.959 --> 04:48:14.479 stay with with with the stuff that you're supposed to Now, 4759 04:48:14.520 --> 04:48:18.720 for me, I wasn't the guy, right, I was the 4760 04:48:18.759 --> 04:48:20.959 guy who just made sure the guy was taking care 4761 04:48:20.959 --> 04:48:25.159 of R And so my stuff was usually working with 4762 04:48:25.200 --> 04:48:27.360 other people and I can talk about that stuff. 4763 04:48:27.439 --> 04:48:31.720 And right, while we're on it on the topic, I 4764 04:48:31.840 --> 04:48:35.240 just want to bring up an app. 4765 04:48:36.520 --> 04:48:38.040 And we've had them on the show. 4766 04:48:38.799 --> 04:48:45.639 But the app is is sound off and and it 4767 04:48:45.840 --> 04:48:54.560 was made for people with clearances, both active and veterans. 4768 04:48:55.119 --> 04:49:01.439 It's a completely anonymous app. It was created by William 4769 04:49:01.479 --> 04:49:06.720 Nagley and uh, you know, a former agency guy and 4770 04:49:07.200 --> 04:49:11.439 his brother in law was a former team guy and 4771 04:49:11.759 --> 04:49:18.360 you know, went into like a horrible spiral and ended 4772 04:49:18.439 --> 04:49:21.520 up ending his life and one of the things. I 4773 04:49:21.520 --> 04:49:23.840 think a lot of people with clearances and a lot 4774 04:49:23.840 --> 04:49:26.520 of people who have been, you know, in these organizations, 4775 04:49:28.159 --> 04:49:30.479 whether it's you know, you don't want to you're worried 4776 04:49:30.479 --> 04:49:33.040 about losing your clearance, you're worried about losing your community, 4777 04:49:33.080 --> 04:49:35.360 you're worried about red flag loss, whatever it is. 4778 04:49:37.599 --> 04:49:39.959 When you sign onto this app, there. 4779 04:49:39.720 --> 04:49:43.959 Are all these different organizations and what they do is 4780 04:49:44.000 --> 04:49:48.840 they get money from different you know, different charities, different 4781 04:49:48.840 --> 04:49:53.240 foundations associated with these organizations, and you can put in 4782 04:49:53.279 --> 04:49:55.880 whatever organ if you've been in three of those organizations, 4783 04:49:56.159 --> 04:50:01.479 and it's all services, it's intelligence agencies, it's whatever, and 4784 04:50:02.119 --> 04:50:05.200 they will they will use money from that bucket. You know, 4785 04:50:05.240 --> 04:50:07.880 whatever you've put in, they'll use money from that bucket. 4786 04:50:08.560 --> 04:50:13.880 And you can hook up with a therapist, again anonymous, 4787 04:50:14.799 --> 04:50:18.560 and it's paid for. So for anybody out there, they're 4788 04:50:18.560 --> 04:50:22.159 trying to they're trying to roll this out to conventional units. 4789 04:50:22.240 --> 04:50:24.720 And again it's not just about soft. 4790 04:50:24.479 --> 04:50:28.720 It it's just that that's those are the those are 4791 04:50:28.720 --> 04:50:31.959 the easily filled buckets as they try to scale the app. 4792 04:50:32.360 --> 04:50:37.240 But if you're a person who is going through stuff, 4793 04:50:37.279 --> 04:50:39.119 you don't have to go through it alone. Please, don't 4794 04:50:39.119 --> 04:50:43.919 go through it alone. You know, war as hell, and 4795 04:50:43.919 --> 04:50:47.360 and everybody cares their own thing. And it doesn't even 4796 04:50:47.400 --> 04:50:50.599 have to be from war, you know. I mean, shit happens. 4797 04:50:52.200 --> 04:50:58.400 But yeah, I mean it's it's it's tragic. It's tragic 4798 04:50:58.439 --> 04:51:01.279 that we're losing people. It's tragic we continue losing people. 4799 04:51:02.799 --> 04:51:05.560 And like you say, man, everybody has their own story. 4800 04:51:05.680 --> 04:51:11.959 And and there's not like postematic stress is not it's 4801 04:51:12.000 --> 04:51:13.400 not a competition. You don't. 4802 04:51:13.439 --> 04:51:15.080 You can't look at somebody say well I didn't go 4803 04:51:15.200 --> 04:51:17.680 through that, so what right do I have? 4804 04:51:18.959 --> 04:51:19.279 Do you know? 4805 04:51:20.639 --> 04:51:23.759 Yeah, and I can tell you it's that procedure has 4806 04:51:23.759 --> 04:51:29.520 been used for people with you know, it's not just combat, 4807 04:51:29.599 --> 04:51:34.799 you know, sexual assaults and other things. So yet trauma 4808 04:51:34.880 --> 04:51:36.959 comes in many forms and favors. 4809 04:51:37.240 --> 04:51:37.479 Yeah. 4810 04:51:37.520 --> 04:51:40.400 And again it's like it's not who who's it's not 4811 04:51:40.439 --> 04:51:41.319 it's not my job. 4812 04:51:41.159 --> 04:51:42.880 To qualify it and quantify it. 4813 04:51:43.080 --> 04:51:46.759 Yeah, it's hey, if you know, if you're experience and 4814 04:51:46.840 --> 04:51:50.119 it's causing disorder to me, that's why I embrace the 4815 04:51:50.200 --> 04:51:54.479 disorder portion. It's like, if it's making you causing dysfunction, 4816 04:51:54.680 --> 04:51:59.520 disorder unit to not function, how you know you should 4817 04:51:59.560 --> 04:52:05.080 be functioned and again having intrusive thoughts and thinking about 4818 04:52:05.080 --> 04:52:08.200 self harm or harming others or anything like that, and then. 4819 04:52:08.080 --> 04:52:12.759 That's not right, right, And so yeah, yeah, it's. 4820 04:52:13.919 --> 04:52:16.040 You know, and I think one of the challenges is, 4821 04:52:16.159 --> 04:52:18.639 you know, we we go through these events, it's like 4822 04:52:18.919 --> 04:52:21.040 your buddy that you were talking to, he went through 4823 04:52:21.040 --> 04:52:28.000 this horrific event, and it's really you know, it's really 4824 04:52:28.040 --> 04:52:32.080 like refining purpose, right, Making these events that we went 4825 04:52:32.119 --> 04:52:36.240 through means something in our current life, you know, and 4826 04:52:36.240 --> 04:52:42.040 and like instead of it bringing us down, creating jet 4827 04:52:42.080 --> 04:52:43.479 fuel from it, saying you. 4828 04:52:43.400 --> 04:52:46.759 Know, not not to make up for it, not to. 4829 04:52:48.520 --> 04:52:50.159 You know, our buddies that we've lost, not to make 4830 04:52:50.240 --> 04:52:54.119 up for their loss, but you know, to to say, 4831 04:52:54.159 --> 04:52:58.639 I'm going to make something from this point forward, you know, 4832 04:52:58.840 --> 04:53:01.360 to honor to honor this. 4833 04:53:02.080 --> 04:53:04.759 Yeah, and I can say a lot of the you know, 4834 04:53:05.360 --> 04:53:08.680 the the one of the main doctor that I worked 4835 04:53:08.680 --> 04:53:11.279 with at my time there, he had this saying, you know, 4836 04:53:11.360 --> 04:53:13.080 he brought a lot of things he brought you know, 4837 04:53:13.119 --> 04:53:16.080 like stem cell therapies and different therapies to the organization 4838 04:53:16.319 --> 04:53:18.560 like way before people were doing it, like stuff that 4839 04:53:18.639 --> 04:53:22.000 professional athletes could get. But he would he would say that, 4840 04:53:22.080 --> 04:53:25.680 you know, people should be able to you know, his 4841 04:53:25.840 --> 04:53:29.279 job was about returning him to duty or being able 4842 04:53:29.360 --> 04:53:32.680 to retire with dignity and respect and be able to 4843 04:53:32.720 --> 04:53:35.880 function being a fully functioned member of society again. Yeah, 4844 04:53:36.200 --> 04:53:38.880 so it's like you can't really turn the you know, 4845 04:53:38.919 --> 04:53:41.360 people transition and turn the chapter and have the next 4846 04:53:41.439 --> 04:53:44.360 chapter in life if you're dealing with the bagage of 4847 04:53:44.919 --> 04:53:48.720 the last chapter, it's it's like, how are you gonna 4848 04:53:49.639 --> 04:53:52.439 how are you going to get into a new organization? 4849 04:53:52.639 --> 04:53:55.680 You know, how are you going to put your best 4850 04:53:55.680 --> 04:53:59.639 foot forward? You know? And so and then your family aspect, 4851 04:53:59.720 --> 04:54:03.040 I guess that's the huge point. You know, a great 4852 04:54:03.360 --> 04:54:06.560 bit of gratitude for my wife, you know, most military spouses. 4853 04:54:06.599 --> 04:54:10.400 I fortunately have been married now for I think twenty 4854 04:54:10.439 --> 04:54:11.759 seven years, my whole career. 4855 04:54:11.840 --> 04:54:14.279 She's a trooper. Yeah, she's a trooper. 4856 04:54:14.840 --> 04:54:18.040 And that's the other thing, all of that stuff. Your 4857 04:54:18.040 --> 04:54:20.279 wife she doesn't know any of these stories. You know. 4858 04:54:20.319 --> 04:54:22.639 It's like in most maybe some folks share them and 4859 04:54:22.720 --> 04:54:26.639 maybe some don't. I'm not the sharing type, and so 4860 04:54:26.919 --> 04:54:32.400 you know, you know, I appreciate everything you've done and 4861 04:54:33.279 --> 04:54:36.680 putting up with it because it's tough, but you know, 4862 04:54:36.759 --> 04:54:39.200 so like and I think that destroys a lot of 4863 04:54:39.240 --> 04:54:39.959 marriages too. 4864 04:54:40.159 --> 04:54:40.400 Yeah. 4865 04:54:40.759 --> 04:54:44.959 Oh, relationships, you know, just a story especially as as 4866 04:54:45.159 --> 04:54:46.520 I mean, I you. 4867 04:54:46.479 --> 04:54:50.560 Know, I think that as guys start to isolate, uh, 4868 04:54:50.799 --> 04:54:54.080 you know, we've become more taciturn. I mean, even if 4869 04:54:54.080 --> 04:54:59.240 we already were, but I think the isolation, the the 4870 04:54:59.240 --> 04:55:03.360 the compartment was, right, it all sets in and then 4871 04:55:03.560 --> 04:55:06.560 you just you become like this. 4872 04:55:05.919 --> 04:55:10.000 This there's like a wall between you that your partner 4873 04:55:10.040 --> 04:55:14.639 can't understand. Yeah, and I think it's good that. Yeah. 4874 04:55:14.759 --> 04:55:19.759 That just it's relationships, right, it's your friends, family members, 4875 04:55:19.799 --> 04:55:22.200 your mom could be your mom, your dad, your relationship 4876 04:55:22.200 --> 04:55:26.159 with your kids. And I know it's affected all the 4877 04:55:26.200 --> 04:55:29.080 above for me. And so it's you know, just a 4878 04:55:29.959 --> 04:55:35.840 it's a self reflection thing, you know. And I'm certainly 4879 04:55:35.880 --> 04:55:38.560 not perfect today, you know what I mean, you got 4880 04:55:38.560 --> 04:55:41.680 to work out it every day and so but I 4881 04:55:41.720 --> 04:55:44.479 think it's being cognizant of and self aware. 4882 04:55:44.520 --> 04:55:48.119 It's like, oh yeah, why am I being this way? Yeah? 4883 04:55:48.240 --> 04:55:48.439 You know? 4884 04:55:48.680 --> 04:55:53.279 Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean anybody out there, whoever you are, 4885 04:55:53.560 --> 04:56:00.279 whatever pain you're in, we love you, you matter, hang with us. Yeah, 4886 04:55:59.759 --> 04:56:04.880 So for you you know you went through this, you 4887 04:56:04.959 --> 04:56:06.959 had already had five. 4888 04:56:09.040 --> 04:56:13.279 Sgbs at that point in time. You get chaptered out 4889 04:56:13.639 --> 04:56:14.799 or not chaptered. I'm sorry. 4890 04:56:14.799 --> 04:56:17.880 You go through your medical chapter, you go through your 4891 04:56:17.880 --> 04:56:20.240 medical how. 4892 04:56:19.799 --> 04:56:24.959 How like how are you now? And what was your process? 4893 04:56:24.959 --> 04:56:26.240 And what is your process? 4894 04:56:26.360 --> 04:56:30.720 So it's an outlet, so like I think most veterans. 4895 04:56:30.759 --> 04:56:33.520 So yeah, it's a great transition. So i'm you know 4896 04:56:33.560 --> 04:56:36.520 I opened, uh, I said, Well, when I left the service, 4897 04:56:36.560 --> 04:56:39.439 I started with industry. So I started right back doing 4898 04:56:39.479 --> 04:56:40.959 what I know when it was how to be a 4899 04:56:41.000 --> 04:56:44.479 medic and and you know, working in medical device and 4900 04:56:44.520 --> 04:56:48.959 I had invented a device on active duty and and 4901 04:56:49.680 --> 04:56:52.840 took it through the patenting process and then and so 4902 04:56:53.720 --> 04:56:57.040 that is everybody. It's like having a hobby, right, It's 4903 04:56:57.119 --> 04:56:59.799 like it's having an outlet, a positive outlet, because there's 4904 04:57:00.240 --> 04:57:06.959 there's constructive and destructive outlets. So for me, just just 4905 04:57:08.200 --> 04:57:12.319 putting everything into the next thing, right, And so that's 4906 04:57:12.319 --> 04:57:16.759 what I did. So I am still working with a 4907 04:57:16.759 --> 04:57:22.080 lot of the PTSD stuff. I think things like most 4908 04:57:22.080 --> 04:57:25.639 things get better with time, I think at least for me. 4909 04:57:25.959 --> 04:57:30.000 Then I can't speak for everybody. And my outlet is 4910 04:57:30.319 --> 04:57:35.400 I still have. It's that tribal connection. So being that 4911 04:57:35.840 --> 04:57:38.880 I was working with industry and going to military bases 4912 04:57:38.919 --> 04:57:41.319 and helping soldiers and talking to them, so I had 4913 04:57:41.360 --> 04:57:46.919 that connection piece. So and so really I just put 4914 04:57:46.959 --> 04:57:50.560 all the passion into medicine. And so that's really what 4915 04:57:50.560 --> 04:57:53.680 I'm doing now. So now I opened a business six 4916 04:57:53.840 --> 04:57:59.319 eight Medical Solutions, and so really what I'm doing is 4917 04:57:59.439 --> 04:58:02.560 just trying to innovate in the pre hospital space and 4918 04:58:02.759 --> 04:58:07.959 figuring out solutions to problems. Because what I learned is 4919 04:58:08.720 --> 04:58:10.959 you may have to take care of yourself, and that's 4920 04:58:11.159 --> 04:58:14.119 what I learned from some of these organizations. You can't 4921 04:58:14.159 --> 04:58:19.119 always rely on somebody else to take care of you. 4922 04:58:19.119 --> 04:58:23.000 You need more intuitive pieces of devices and equipment that 4923 04:58:23.639 --> 04:58:26.959 solve problems either. You know, you can't just rest on 4924 04:58:27.040 --> 04:58:28.840 what worked. 4925 04:58:29.200 --> 04:58:30.439 You can always make things better. 4926 04:58:30.599 --> 04:58:33.200 There's no perfect device, you know, that's I'm a fun 4927 04:58:33.319 --> 04:58:36.000 you know, there's probably no perfect weapons system. Rather each 4928 04:58:36.000 --> 04:58:38.520 other things and you can always make them better. So 4929 04:58:38.560 --> 04:58:41.919 that's what I'm doing now. So so I've I've really 4930 04:58:43.599 --> 04:58:47.479 a lot of my patient experiences or and combat deaths 4931 04:58:47.560 --> 04:58:53.439 are attributed to heemorrhagic you know, blood loss. So dying 4932 04:58:53.439 --> 04:58:56.759 from bleeding to death, and so specifically, there's been a 4933 04:58:56.759 --> 04:59:01.279 lot of innovation in the tourniquet space, right in hemistatics, 4934 04:59:01.279 --> 04:59:04.000 so things that you put in people's body to help 4935 04:59:04.040 --> 04:59:09.200 their body clot, but there hasn't been a lot. There's 4936 04:59:09.200 --> 04:59:12.040 still some gaps there. So really that's where I've focused 4937 04:59:12.040 --> 04:59:19.959 my effort is targeted pressure devices around Well, now you 4938 04:59:20.000 --> 04:59:22.880 can put on a tourniquet, but if you don't take 4939 04:59:22.919 --> 04:59:24.720 it off, you may lose the leg. And that was 4940 04:59:24.759 --> 04:59:27.560 good enough in the last war, a lot of people 4941 04:59:27.599 --> 04:59:32.799 stayed alive because we integrated tourniquets. But my thought process 4942 04:59:32.880 --> 04:59:36.759 is maybe the next war, maybe we can save some 4943 04:59:36.919 --> 04:59:41.599 limbs and lives by learning how to convert tourniquets and 4944 04:59:41.720 --> 04:59:43.560 doing some of the stuff that we didn't have to 4945 04:59:43.599 --> 04:59:46.040 do in gy I don't know of a lot of 4946 04:59:46.279 --> 04:59:50.119 cases where they actually converted tourniquets down at least at 4947 04:59:50.159 --> 04:59:56.840 point of injury, pre hospital tactical field care, and so 4948 04:59:56.959 --> 05:00:01.560 converting tourniquets and then holding targeted pressure for bleeds that 4949 05:00:01.680 --> 05:00:06.119 aren't amenable to tourniquets, so things higher in the inguinal area, 4950 05:00:06.680 --> 05:00:12.919 accel area, and so I've i you know, patented in 4951 05:00:12.919 --> 05:00:17.040 a system of a targeted pressure device to actually where 4952 05:00:17.599 --> 05:00:19.799 you know, kind of simplifies that you can actually just 4953 05:00:20.000 --> 05:00:23.119 instead of holding with your hands, I call them hands 4954 05:00:23.119 --> 05:00:26.439 freeing devices where you can actually use a device to 4955 05:00:26.680 --> 05:00:30.439 put pressure right where you want it through non circumferential means. 4956 05:00:31.040 --> 05:00:35.560 So tourniquets work basically they constrict everything right and cut 4957 05:00:35.560 --> 05:00:40.759 off all blood flow right targeted pressure you put pressure 4958 05:00:40.799 --> 05:00:44.240 right where you want it and you shut off that vessel. 4959 05:00:44.840 --> 05:00:46.680 And so it doesn't always have to be like a 4960 05:00:46.720 --> 05:00:51.880 main artery. It can just be just an arterial or 4961 05:00:51.959 --> 05:00:54.439 venal down the track. And so that's what we're seeing 4962 05:00:54.479 --> 05:00:57.560 in Ukraine right now. A lot of because their evacuation 4963 05:00:57.720 --> 05:01:01.000 times are like six hours. There's a lot of those 4964 05:01:01.040 --> 05:01:04.439 soldiers because one they're not trained well, they barely know 4965 05:01:04.599 --> 05:01:09.119 to use tourniquets. But when they do, sometimes they're they're 4966 05:01:09.159 --> 05:01:11.639 applied to wounds that they didn't even need a tourniquet, 4967 05:01:11.680 --> 05:01:14.880 but now they have these really high double amputees. 4968 05:01:16.400 --> 05:01:17.720 And so what I believe. 4969 05:01:17.520 --> 05:01:20.599 Is we got to evolve, like we got to keep 4970 05:01:20.639 --> 05:01:23.000 getting better. We can't just say well, now we got tourniquits, 4971 05:01:23.360 --> 05:01:23.799 we're good. 4972 05:01:24.959 --> 05:01:27.520 So I know that you know, like during the gare 4973 05:01:27.680 --> 05:01:30.599 there was a lot of development in tourniicuts, but generally 4974 05:01:31.360 --> 05:01:37.200 it was just new methods of tightening this same band, 4975 05:01:37.360 --> 05:01:40.159 right that people are coming up with different types of 4976 05:01:40.159 --> 05:01:45.119 fasteners and tighteners and things like that. But what you've 4977 05:01:45.479 --> 05:01:49.840 invented is something novel in the tourniquet space. 4978 05:01:50.400 --> 05:01:54.200 Yeah can you can you? Yeah? So so all show it. 4979 05:01:54.400 --> 05:01:56.919 So this is essentially, you know, I called it a 4980 05:01:56.919 --> 05:01:59.159 P three D. It's a pope point pressure device, so 4981 05:01:59.439 --> 05:02:01.080 you know, I named it myself a little but wanted 4982 05:02:01.080 --> 05:02:04.400 a little bit of a legacy. And so essentially what 4983 05:02:04.520 --> 05:02:08.680 it works is targeted pressure. What I kind of figured 4984 05:02:08.680 --> 05:02:13.240 out is through like junctional and other devices, it's all 4985 05:02:13.279 --> 05:02:17.599 about having a height offset, which meaning you triangulate pressure 4986 05:02:17.680 --> 05:02:21.799 to pull things downward, and then having a pressure head. 4987 05:02:22.479 --> 05:02:27.759 And so a normal tourniquet basically takes everything and squeezes 4988 05:02:27.799 --> 05:02:33.880 it inward and basically just squishes everything. Where this, because 4989 05:02:33.880 --> 05:02:37.759 of it has a height a height offset, it basically 4990 05:02:38.119 --> 05:02:42.159 leaves gaps in the in the in the in the 4991 05:02:42.439 --> 05:02:44.000 basically the strapping mechanism. 4992 05:02:44.479 --> 05:02:45.759 So essentially. 4993 05:02:46.759 --> 05:02:50.599 You have rooms to allow for collateral flow and more 4994 05:02:50.639 --> 05:02:55.560 importantly venus return because what happens is is when you 4995 05:02:56.159 --> 05:02:59.560 shut off the arterial system, so the high pressure system 4996 05:02:59.560 --> 05:03:01.520 of an art in a low pressure system of a 4997 05:03:01.599 --> 05:03:05.599 vein turn, it gets shut off both systems, right, they're 4998 05:03:05.639 --> 05:03:07.880 working from it. They keep they just shut everything off, 4999 05:03:07.880 --> 05:03:12.680 and nothing goes this way, nothing goes that way. When 5000 05:03:12.720 --> 05:03:16.000 you put like bandages onto tight what'll happen is you'll 5001 05:03:16.000 --> 05:03:20.080 shut off the venus system, so the return system, but 5002 05:03:20.200 --> 05:03:22.319 you won't shut off the arterio system. So blood goes 5003 05:03:22.360 --> 05:03:25.080 that way, and then what you get is called venus engorgement. 5004 05:03:25.599 --> 05:03:27.759 And it it's painful. And so this is the way 5005 05:03:27.799 --> 05:03:30.680 that I equated to somebody. I'm like, have you ever 5006 05:03:30.759 --> 05:03:36.200 cut your finger in a garage razor blade? Whatever? Okay, 5007 05:03:36.360 --> 05:03:39.000 you ever like quickly just grabbed some tape and wrapped 5008 05:03:39.040 --> 05:03:42.439 it around there and then it stopped the bleeding, right, 5009 05:03:43.240 --> 05:03:46.159 But then it started throbbing and hurting, like hell, well 5010 05:03:46.200 --> 05:03:49.959 you had venus engorgement. And so essentially what did you do. 5011 05:03:50.040 --> 05:03:51.240 You loosened it up. 5012 05:03:51.279 --> 05:03:53.200 And what happened start bleeding. 5013 05:03:53.240 --> 05:03:56.880 It started bleeding again because it needed pressure like this, 5014 05:03:57.400 --> 05:04:00.360 but the pain went away. So that's what you loosen it. 5015 05:04:00.200 --> 05:04:02.959 And I can give you a hundred analogies. It's like 5016 05:04:03.319 --> 05:04:05.240 it's like going to get in your blood draw You 5017 05:04:05.279 --> 05:04:07.319 ever had them wrap the thing around too tight and 5018 05:04:07.360 --> 05:04:11.360 your arm turns purple, But and then it starts hurting, 5019 05:04:11.400 --> 05:04:14.040 so you unwrap it and then the pain goes away, 5020 05:04:14.119 --> 05:04:16.319 the purple goes away, but then you start bleeding again. 5021 05:04:16.680 --> 05:04:19.040 So really it's the principles around it. So basically what 5022 05:04:19.119 --> 05:04:22.000 I did is I've I've made a set of like 5023 05:04:22.119 --> 05:04:25.680 heads depending on where you need to put pressure, and 5024 05:04:26.240 --> 05:04:29.799 you can go in wounds over the hemistatics, so it'll 5025 05:04:29.880 --> 05:04:33.240 kind of sit in a cut so actually inside and 5026 05:04:33.279 --> 05:04:37.639 then this riser you can route any tournique, so I'll route, 5027 05:04:37.680 --> 05:04:40.439 so everybody carries a different one, right, So it's kind 5028 05:04:40.439 --> 05:04:45.439 of I call it. It's it's agnostic. Whatever turniche you use, 5029 05:04:46.279 --> 05:04:48.319 or if you have a bandage, you just set it 5030 05:04:48.360 --> 05:04:51.119 on top and you can use it to create a 5031 05:04:51.159 --> 05:04:53.720 non pressure bandage that make it pressurized. 5032 05:04:53.799 --> 05:04:56.680 Yeah, but really it's about. 5033 05:04:58.479 --> 05:05:00.240 Yeah you can if. 5034 05:05:00.119 --> 05:05:01.000 You guys can see that. 5035 05:05:02.400 --> 05:05:06.479 So it applies the pressure wherever you need it, but 5036 05:05:06.759 --> 05:05:09.360 just at the point that you need it. 5037 05:05:11.040 --> 05:05:14.000 And then yeah, and then the height gives it the leverage. 5038 05:05:14.840 --> 05:05:16.720 So here I got one. So it's so I also 5039 05:05:16.799 --> 05:05:18.639 kind of did it in a bandage. I'll just show you 5040 05:05:19.279 --> 05:05:22.799 so here it is, and these these little channels just 5041 05:05:22.840 --> 05:05:27.680 allow you to creatively redirect it. But normally a bandage 5042 05:05:27.680 --> 05:05:30.759 you would just wrap around and to stop the bleeding, 5043 05:05:30.799 --> 05:05:33.919 you just keep wrapping really tight like this, and you 5044 05:05:33.919 --> 05:05:36.520 would create a tourniquet like a frect with a bandage. 5045 05:05:37.240 --> 05:05:42.680 So if you if you just have the height offset, 5046 05:05:42.799 --> 05:05:48.560 what it does is it isolates pressure downward this way. 5047 05:05:49.080 --> 05:05:51.080 You feel that just right on the point, yeah, right 5048 05:05:51.119 --> 05:05:53.040 where you want it, and i don't have to wrap 5049 05:05:53.080 --> 05:05:59.479 as tight and I'm relying on isolated pressure versus circumferential pressure, right, 5050 05:06:00.040 --> 05:06:04.520 and so really that's the key. And these channels what 5051 05:06:04.560 --> 05:06:09.240 they do is I'll go backwards a bit, say that 5052 05:06:09.319 --> 05:06:11.560 you just want a lot of pressure. Well, then if 5053 05:06:11.560 --> 05:06:15.080 you want that mechanical advantage, then I can just route 5054 05:06:15.119 --> 05:06:20.040 through these channels to make it tight when I want it. 5055 05:06:20.119 --> 05:06:22.200 So if I want it tight, I can make it tight. 5056 05:06:22.639 --> 05:06:25.360 But if I don't want to, I can And so 5057 05:06:25.479 --> 05:06:28.840 really what these are tools are for is tourniquet conversion. 5058 05:06:29.599 --> 05:06:32.560 So right now it's all improvised, so there's not a 5059 05:06:33.080 --> 05:06:37.119 there's not. There's some things starting to come out, and 5060 05:06:37.360 --> 05:06:40.720 you know, I plot all innovation. I'm like, hey man, 5061 05:06:41.159 --> 05:06:44.439 it's all about healthy comp make the best thing out there. Servicemen, 5062 05:06:44.520 --> 05:06:47.520 I want my son sons who are still active. Do 5063 05:06:47.520 --> 05:06:50.479 you have the access to the best equipment? So I 5064 05:06:50.479 --> 05:06:54.000 think we need to innovate, and so right now that's 5065 05:06:54.040 --> 05:06:58.799 what we're launching. This probably this winner. We're in manufacturing now, 5066 05:06:59.360 --> 05:07:01.840 I'm gonna get things to market. But it's really just 5067 05:07:01.919 --> 05:07:06.159 about like advancing pre hospital medicine. So that's my focus, 5068 05:07:06.200 --> 05:07:09.400 and that's how I kind of stay stay focused and 5069 05:07:09.520 --> 05:07:13.520 stay driven and trying to give back. 5070 05:07:15.119 --> 05:07:17.680 And so it's like it's a smart tourniquet. 5071 05:07:17.720 --> 05:07:19.479 I mean it's you know, if you think of the 5072 05:07:19.479 --> 05:07:20.959 old method, it's a dumb tourniquet. 5073 05:07:20.959 --> 05:07:23.680 It's just like, yeah, and this is smart. Now. I 5074 05:07:23.720 --> 05:07:27.000 know you've patent it, have you what's like. 5075 05:07:27.040 --> 05:07:31.080 The the proof of concept or the testing procedure for 5076 05:07:31.119 --> 05:07:31.680 something like this. 5077 05:07:32.319 --> 05:07:36.799 So for me, what I've done with it is I've 5078 05:07:36.840 --> 05:07:40.919 put it through a lot of cadaveric testing. So I 5079 05:07:41.000 --> 05:07:43.759 when I first left the military, I worked for a big, 5080 05:07:43.840 --> 05:07:50.840 large medical device company and they specialized and perfused cadavers, 5081 05:07:50.919 --> 05:07:54.080 and I actually wrote a training program for them for 5082 05:07:54.119 --> 05:07:57.799 that and help them take that technology to the market, 5083 05:07:57.840 --> 05:08:00.240 and we actually train a lot of service members sos 5084 05:08:00.279 --> 05:08:04.400 that actually have flow, so could average that have heart beats, heartbeats. 5085 05:08:04.560 --> 05:08:07.680 It's not a heartbeat though, So what it is is 5086 05:08:07.759 --> 05:08:12.959 essentially a piston pump system that pumps beef blood or 5087 05:08:13.000 --> 05:08:18.400 fake blood into a cadaver at normal physiological pressures, so 5088 05:08:18.439 --> 05:08:22.880 that you can essentially know when it's tight enough. Now, 5089 05:08:23.360 --> 05:08:25.720 cadaverage they don't have muscle tone, and there's some a 5090 05:08:25.759 --> 05:08:28.520 little bit of difference, but for the most part, what 5091 05:08:28.599 --> 05:08:31.319 you can really do is check, you know, you can 5092 05:08:31.720 --> 05:08:35.520 you can figure out the efficacy of the device. What 5093 05:08:35.639 --> 05:08:39.479 a lot of people don't know is this space where 5094 05:08:39.479 --> 05:08:44.319 these medical devices fall. See, these aren't cancer drugs. You 5095 05:08:44.360 --> 05:08:47.279 can sell the device that you've never proven to work right, right, 5096 05:08:48.520 --> 05:08:53.279 it happens all the time, and so you know, you 5097 05:08:53.439 --> 05:08:56.400 normally just engineer test them. You basically put them on 5098 05:08:56.880 --> 05:09:01.599 pressure sensors and figure out different pressures and break tensil strengths. 5099 05:09:02.319 --> 05:09:04.840 But I've taken a step further and actually put it 5100 05:09:04.880 --> 05:09:08.840 through a profusion model, and that's kind of I would 5101 05:09:08.880 --> 05:09:13.319 say the gold standard next to just actual human use. 5102 05:09:13.360 --> 05:09:15.439 But a lot of times you're not going to get 5103 05:09:15.479 --> 05:09:18.840 that with these kind of devices. There's just you get 5104 05:09:18.840 --> 05:09:21.639 that retrospectively, and that's like we So if you think 5105 05:09:21.720 --> 05:09:24.000 like so, I'll give a little bit of shout outs 5106 05:09:24.040 --> 05:09:25.840 to the I Usually you know, you don't want to 5107 05:09:26.439 --> 05:09:29.240 mention product names and but but like so like the 5108 05:09:29.319 --> 05:09:32.159 cat tournique, right, I carried one, saved a lot of lives. 5109 05:09:33.360 --> 05:09:37.520 It was made in it was bench tested. It wasn't 5110 05:09:37.599 --> 05:09:40.119 like it had uses before it is I remember it. 5111 05:09:40.159 --> 05:09:42.159 But they brought it into my soccam class. You could 5112 05:09:42.159 --> 05:09:45.799 buy it and use it when it first got made. 5113 05:09:45.799 --> 05:09:47.840 You know, it was vented at the unit on Brag. 5114 05:09:47.959 --> 05:09:52.599 It's a kind of crazy story behind it. But essentially, 5115 05:09:53.040 --> 05:09:55.799 you know, they kind of figure it's you know, there's 5116 05:09:55.840 --> 05:09:59.279 a there's a gap analysis and there's you know, they 5117 05:09:59.360 --> 05:10:01.200 kind of figure out there's a need, we need something 5118 05:10:01.240 --> 05:10:05.680 for this, and they do some rapid prototyping or some 5119 05:10:05.759 --> 05:10:08.520 prototype and engineering testing. But it's a lot of engineering 5120 05:10:08.599 --> 05:10:11.720 validation and not a lot of actual use. You get 5121 05:10:11.799 --> 05:10:12.520 the use. 5122 05:10:14.759 --> 05:10:15.560 After the fact. 5123 05:10:15.639 --> 05:10:19.319 Yeah, and so, but you can do a lot of 5124 05:10:19.520 --> 05:10:23.799 just testing on your own through like Doppler testing, you know. 5125 05:10:24.159 --> 05:10:27.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just want to say real quick 5126 05:10:27.799 --> 05:10:29.240 that the company that's. 5127 05:10:29.040 --> 05:10:34.200 Doing the profusive cadavers, if you guys start the next 5128 05:10:34.279 --> 05:10:36.560 zombie apocalypse, I will be pissed. 5129 05:10:40.040 --> 05:10:41.479 And what's the name of your company again? 5130 05:10:41.560 --> 05:10:43.040 Six eight Medical six. 5131 05:10:43.000 --> 05:10:45.799 Eight Medical Solutions? Do we have a link to that? 5132 05:10:45.919 --> 05:10:49.119 It's in the link, is in the is in the description. 5133 05:10:49.520 --> 05:10:52.759 Yeah, and so yeah, these are so they're not up 5134 05:10:52.799 --> 05:10:56.319 on the website yet because we're we're in manufacturing. They're 5135 05:10:56.520 --> 05:10:59.720 they're up there in concept, but we we plan to 5136 05:10:59.759 --> 05:11:04.439 have the stuff for sale here come December January. We're 5137 05:11:04.439 --> 05:11:06.799 in the like I said, setting up all the manufacturing. 5138 05:11:08.319 --> 05:11:11.439 The pressure bar may be made right there in South Carolina. 5139 05:11:11.560 --> 05:11:12.479 So that's amazing. 5140 05:11:12.759 --> 05:11:15.959 So anybody who has a medical kit in your car, 5141 05:11:16.080 --> 05:11:21.400 which should be everybody your ed YOU'R D E d 5142 05:11:21.560 --> 05:11:27.680 C kit, check out six eight Medical Solutions and in 5143 05:11:27.720 --> 05:11:31.919 a few months pick up your what is it called in. 5144 05:11:32.080 --> 05:11:35.880 The pope point pressure device, It's a it's a tongue twister, 5145 05:11:36.040 --> 05:11:37.439 right uh yeah. 5146 05:11:37.599 --> 05:11:40.599 So yeah, so. 5147 05:11:40.759 --> 05:11:42.959 We have gone really long. I am most of that 5148 05:11:43.080 --> 05:11:46.799 is because of my rambling. Is there anything that we've 5149 05:11:46.880 --> 05:11:49.000 left out. Is there anything that you want to cover that? 5150 05:11:49.360 --> 05:11:51.759 There's so much you couldn't cover. That's why there's books 5151 05:11:51.759 --> 05:11:54.439 on the wall. And maybe yeah, I don't know. I 5152 05:11:54.479 --> 05:11:55.799 don't know if I have a desire to do that, 5153 05:11:55.840 --> 05:12:02.040 but but no, I think I think that hopefully I 5154 05:12:02.040 --> 05:12:05.720 I did the folks I wanted to talk about justice 5155 05:12:05.759 --> 05:12:11.240 as far as just acknowledging their contribution to keeping this 5156 05:12:11.439 --> 05:12:15.919 nation safe. And I appreciate the opportunity I had to 5157 05:12:16.000 --> 05:12:19.520 serve and still doing, and I appreciate those that continue 5158 05:12:19.560 --> 05:12:22.240 to serve. And I think those are the folks that, 5159 05:12:22.560 --> 05:12:27.200 you know, we should be kind of honoring and and 5160 05:12:27.200 --> 05:12:29.200 and so thank you for your time and thanks for 5161 05:12:29.240 --> 05:12:29.639 having me. 5162 05:12:29.720 --> 05:12:31.959 Thank you for your time, and everybody out there, I 5163 05:12:31.959 --> 05:12:35.159 mean we saw have most of you watching, So thank 5164 05:12:35.360 --> 05:12:39.439 you guys. You you are the heroes tonight, real troopers. 5165 05:12:39.520 --> 05:12:42.319 We really appreciate it. No, but we deeply appreciate you 5166 05:12:42.400 --> 05:12:42.680 coming up. 5167 05:12:42.720 --> 05:12:46.919 We I mean I deeply appreciate you know, you sharing 5168 05:12:47.479 --> 05:12:50.720 not only your life and your career, but also you know, 5169 05:12:50.919 --> 05:12:55.119 like the postraumatic stress stuff like it's it's very vulnerable, 5170 05:12:55.240 --> 05:12:58.639 you know, and it's you know, you're talking to you 5171 05:12:58.680 --> 05:13:01.720 know several thousand people, and. 5172 05:13:04.040 --> 05:13:06.360 I think that the more people are able to talk 5173 05:13:06.360 --> 05:13:06.880 about it. 5174 05:13:06.799 --> 05:13:09.680 The more we're able to normalize it, the easier it 5175 05:13:09.759 --> 05:13:13.119 is for people who. 5176 05:13:13.880 --> 05:13:17.599 Need help to to get the help. So thank you. 5177 05:13:18.919 --> 05:13:21.319 Let me get to our questions real quick. I don't 5178 05:13:21.560 --> 05:13:26.520 do do we have anything on? No? All right, Joe. 5179 05:13:27.240 --> 05:13:31.919 So we're gonna we're gonna probably breeze through these questions, guys. 5180 05:13:31.959 --> 05:13:36.400 I mean, we deeply appreciate you guys contributing. How similar 5181 05:13:36.400 --> 05:13:41.599 were the assaulters at your old unit compared to like 5182 05:13:41.639 --> 05:13:42.799 the other Tier one units? 5183 05:13:44.479 --> 05:13:47.720 Uh? And what was your experience like with those units? 5184 05:13:47.720 --> 05:13:50.240 I think we talked about that a lot, and and 5185 05:13:50.279 --> 05:13:53.400 I think that we could also say that probably that 5186 05:13:53.959 --> 05:13:54.959 the focus of. 5187 05:13:55.279 --> 05:14:01.080 Your unit wasn't really on assault. Joe, Joe's thank you again. 5188 05:14:01.400 --> 05:14:02.080 Could you talk. 5189 05:14:01.959 --> 05:14:04.680 About the culture and caliber of person that makes an 5190 05:14:04.759 --> 05:14:11.159 SUMU where you were at? Was it pretty brutal? Meritrak meritocracy? 5191 05:14:11.319 --> 05:14:16.479 Sorry to work there? I mean, people just basically recognize 5192 05:14:16.520 --> 05:14:20.159 for like for their performance, without like a lot of 5193 05:14:20.200 --> 05:14:21.119 politics and stuff. 5194 05:14:23.080 --> 05:14:28.200 I think that folks, you know, so the senior leader 5195 05:14:28.279 --> 05:14:32.279 in me says that folks probably weren't recognized enough because 5196 05:14:32.799 --> 05:14:35.959 there's such a high there's a such a high standard 5197 05:14:36.720 --> 05:14:39.799 that kind of the things that are normally recognized in 5198 05:14:40.040 --> 05:14:46.919 your traditional organization are kind of like basic expectations, right, 5199 05:14:47.319 --> 05:14:51.959 So I say that folks are recognized, but probably not 5200 05:14:52.119 --> 05:15:00.080 at the same rates as others in other organizations. 5201 05:15:00.919 --> 05:15:02.639 But it's. 5202 05:15:03.520 --> 05:15:07.599 Yeah, I think, you know, it's maybe the public recognition 5203 05:15:08.040 --> 05:15:11.880 is what's not there. And I think that's rightfully so, 5204 05:15:11.959 --> 05:15:13.680 because it's hard to talk about it where you're not 5205 05:15:13.720 --> 05:15:16.240 supposed to talk. It's like, yeah, how do you recognize it? 5206 05:15:16.959 --> 05:15:19.799 Uh, Joe's thank you very much. In the civil affairs 5207 05:15:19.840 --> 05:15:22.560 work you did. What would happen if you were not 5208 05:15:22.720 --> 05:15:26.240 able to make amends? Would the Afghan village just become 5209 05:15:26.279 --> 05:15:27.040 pro Taliban? 5210 05:15:29.599 --> 05:15:31.959 We definitely had some places where we could not make 5211 05:15:32.000 --> 05:15:38.560 it right, Yeah, and so those yeah, I definitely experienced 5212 05:15:38.599 --> 05:15:41.880 that once or twice. You just try to get out 5213 05:15:41.919 --> 05:15:47.479 there there without making it worse. And look, you know 5214 05:15:47.799 --> 05:15:51.520 we're not John Rambo. So like you're not going to 5215 05:15:51.759 --> 05:15:55.200 start a firefight with three guys against a village, right, 5216 05:15:55.520 --> 05:15:59.279 So yeah, you just you just yeah, leave it. And 5217 05:15:59.319 --> 05:16:02.279 so I guess the answer is the likelihood most likely, 5218 05:16:02.400 --> 05:16:07.479 I guess they are not happy with the US forces, and. 5219 05:16:07.439 --> 05:16:09.799 A lot of times it's not just about making it 5220 05:16:09.840 --> 05:16:12.560 so they're not pro talban like it is done from 5221 05:16:12.599 --> 05:16:14.680 a place where it's the right thing to do a 5222 05:16:14.680 --> 05:16:15.119 lot of. 5223 05:16:15.000 --> 05:16:16.639 Times one hundred percent. 5224 05:16:17.000 --> 05:16:22.599 So yeah, and if that was misunderstood when you're doing 5225 05:16:22.639 --> 05:16:28.919 those payments, so those are like wrongful death mitigation. It's 5226 05:16:28.959 --> 05:16:31.439 not because you killed a bad guy and now you're 5227 05:16:31.439 --> 05:16:34.159 going to pay their family money. That's not the case. Okay, 5228 05:16:34.240 --> 05:16:38.319 It's that someone was injured, hurt, killed. Most of the 5229 05:16:38.360 --> 05:16:43.040 time it's killed and it's collateral damage. That is kind 5230 05:16:43.119 --> 05:16:47.119 of making right, if you will, making an attempt to 5231 05:16:47.240 --> 05:16:51.880 acknowledge onus without like fully saying like we messed up. 5232 05:16:54.560 --> 05:16:54.840 Rs. 5233 05:16:54.840 --> 05:16:57.479 Thank you very much. Thank you, CSM and Dave. Of 5234 05:16:57.520 --> 05:17:02.119 course I had friends at Womack and Triple Nickel. Great 5235 05:17:02.119 --> 05:17:06.479 talk showman. Thanks man, really appreciate it. Chris Pez, thank. 5236 05:17:06.360 --> 05:17:08.840 You very much. Shout out to your Ayah brother. 5237 05:17:09.279 --> 05:17:11.840 Normally I don't catch the team house, but I didn't 5238 05:17:11.840 --> 05:17:13.000 want to miss your podcast. 5239 05:17:14.319 --> 05:17:16.439 M Corbin, thank you very much. Be sure to hit 5240 05:17:16.479 --> 05:17:17.119 that like button. 5241 05:17:17.159 --> 05:17:19.799 Yeah ready, Please if you're still with us, which most 5242 05:17:19.880 --> 05:17:23.360 of you are, please hit the like button. Really appreciate it, 5243 05:17:23.599 --> 05:17:27.520 and hit the subscribe button too if you haven't already. Budoka, 5244 05:17:27.560 --> 05:17:30.799 thank you very much. Thank you guys for what you do. 5245 05:17:31.119 --> 05:17:33.319 Thank you for supporting us. We really appreciate it. 5246 05:17:34.919 --> 05:17:36.959 That is our show. This is two ninety nine. 5247 05:17:37.000 --> 05:17:39.279 Our three hundred show is going to be four hours 5248 05:17:39.560 --> 05:17:45.919 of NonStop dungeons and dragons. That's October third. Yeah, so 5249 05:17:46.200 --> 05:17:47.720 we're going to go off the rails. Yeah, it's a 5250 05:17:47.720 --> 05:17:52.400 Thursday show. We're going off the rails, getting getting. 5251 05:17:52.040 --> 05:17:56.119 Our dragon slang on. But thank you, my friend. 5252 05:17:56.360 --> 05:17:59.919 I really appreciate it, and thank you everybody, thanks for 5253 05:18:00.040 --> 05:18:00.840 hanging with us tonight. 5254 05:18:00.880 --> 05:18:04.840 It was a it's a marathon show. And if and 5255 05:18:04.919 --> 05:18:07.639 you see what happens when Jack's not here. This is 5256 05:18:07.680 --> 05:18:11.959 this is me. This is my fault. But all right, anybody, 5257 05:18:12.000 --> 05:18:13.240 thank you very much. M