1
00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:05,559
Speaker 1: Every year, thousands of students go on their first holiday abroad.

2
00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:09,000
Our five G roaming in eighty countries means they're connected

3
00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:10,720
as soon as they land.

4
00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:13,199
Speaker 2: Just a reminder to wear onscreen love because you're paid

5
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:14,800
as a ghost. Oh and can you send me on

6
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,480
your friends numbers because their mothers are on to me

7
00:00:16,679 --> 00:00:17,519
And always.

8
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,440
Speaker 1: Keep your cast your Every connection counts, which is why

9
00:00:20,519 --> 00:00:24,160
Arland can count on our network Votaphone. Together we can.

10
00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:28,600
Speaker 2: Subject to coverage availability limitations in terms ofpply see votaphone

11
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,039
dot ie Forward Slash terms.

12
00:00:30,679 --> 00:00:34,200
Speaker 3: Every business needs leaders, those with the vision to see

13
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,200
where their business is going, those who make big decisions

14
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,399
when they matter most. At ESB's Smart Energy Services, we

15
00:00:41,439 --> 00:00:44,719
work with business leaders every day because we lead the

16
00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:48,359
way in delivering clean energy solutions at scale. So whether

17
00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:51,119
you want to reduce your energy costs or reach your

18
00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:54,240
sustainability goals, we can lead your business to a clean

19
00:00:54,399 --> 00:00:58,200
energy future. Find out more at ESB, dot Ie Forward

20
00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,520
Slash Smart Energy.

21
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 4: Hello and welcome to the show. If you're enjoying it

22
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,599
and I want an ad free experience, consider signing up

23
00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:09,480
for the Patreonpatreon dot com Slash The one one podcast

24
00:01:09,799 --> 00:01:12,879
get early accessed and exclusive content on there as well

25
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,400
for less than the cost of a cup of coffee.

26
00:01:15,599 --> 00:01:18,359
Links to ways of supporting the show are in the description.

27
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,680
Thank you so much for listening and enjoy this episode.

28
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,400
Speaker 5: Welcome to the one on one Podcast with your host

29
00:01:38,040 --> 00:02:02,760
one a Yala.

30
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,719
Speaker 4: Welcome back to another episode of the horn on one Podcast.

31
00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:12,879
I'm your host. As always, make sure to check out

32
00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,800
the show on social media at the hon on one

33
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,159
podcast on pretty much all social media platforms, Juan on,

34
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:25,800
Juan on YouTube, Brumble Everywhere, www dot TJOJP dot com,

35
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,719
Patreon dot com, slash, the hon on one Podcast, all

36
00:02:28,759 --> 00:02:31,599
that good stuff, and joining us today is a scholar,

37
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,400
a publisher, a book owner, somebody who is one of

38
00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:38,479
my favorite guests have on the show because he's he

39
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,599
knows a lot. Welcome back to the show, Professor Longo.

40
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 6: Do what's up in of course, not much, Thanks for

41
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,039
having me, Glad to.

42
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,919
Speaker 4: Be here, Glad to have you. And we're gonna be

43
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,080
talking a little bit about some of the things in

44
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,560
your book Monad that you just published through your publishing company,

45
00:02:56,319 --> 00:02:59,719
and beautiful cover, beautiful art on the inside as well,

46
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,520
and we're gonna be talking about Thomas Taylor are gonna

47
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,159
be talking about Neil, platonism, platonism, whatever else comes up.

48
00:03:06,199 --> 00:03:08,319
But before we get started, where can people get a

49
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,159
copy of this tone and where can they look for

50
00:03:13,199 --> 00:03:14,960
other projects that are coming up that you were sharing

51
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,520
with me. I'm very excited.

52
00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:21,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, you can get a copy of Monad at Gallowglass

53
00:03:21,719 --> 00:03:26,879
Books Dot shop. We're on Instagram and everything like that,

54
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,840
or you could look up The Dancing Elephant, which is

55
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,520
the bookstore I own in South Florida, and that'll lead

56
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,960
you to Monad. We have the link everywhere. There's less

57
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,360
than four hundred copies left and it is limited to

58
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,400
two thousand copies. Well, we printed two thousand in July.

59
00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:51,479
It's sold really well. They're going fast, so there's only

60
00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:56,280
a few hundred and they'll probably be sold out in

61
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,280
the next month or two. And then we're moving on

62
00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:01,159
to the next book and Monad will never be republished.

63
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,439
It could be republished in paperback, but we have no

64
00:04:04,479 --> 00:04:08,680
commitment to that, but the hardcover is limited either. Their treasures,

65
00:04:08,719 --> 00:04:10,520
you know, if you're in the Neoplatonism, it's kind of

66
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:16,279
the book to have. And then our next book in March,

67
00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:20,160
hopefully in March. If we stay on track, is going

68
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,000
to be Giordano Bruno in the Hermetic Tradition by Francis Yates,

69
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,199
fully restored with the commission cover and it'll be really

70
00:04:29,199 --> 00:04:30,560
cool awesome.

71
00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I make sure to check that out links down

72
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,279
in the description. And I was telling you that i'd

73
00:04:34,399 --> 00:04:38,160
done a couple episodes of of Yates because she is

74
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,800
she was just so ahead of her time and a

75
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,959
lot of the things right, the Yates narrative, as they

76
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,079
call it, this this idea that she presents, this grand

77
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,879
narrative that you're able to, which a lot of scholars call,

78
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,759
you know, imagination going wild type of thing.

79
00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 6: But she gets she gets heckled by some more like

80
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,600
I guess cold scholars. Yeah, like you said, for using

81
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,680
a little imagination, you know, something like that.

82
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, which I appreciate Yates because she goes where I

83
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,240
think people when they're reading her work want to go

84
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,360
right in a sort of way like, oh that's really crazy. Well,

85
00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:23,319
it just so might be that crazy, And she presents

86
00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:25,560
it against She's a scholar, so she's presenting in a

87
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,639
way that makes a lot of sense. Not a lot

88
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,079
of the stuff that she does claim is it's crazy.

89
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,480
But history is crazy. Alchemy is crazy, right, her Meticism

90
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,759
is crazy. And I wanted to ask you, a gallow glass,

91
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,560
what is all this about? I'm reading it here. I

92
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,360
never knew about this.

93
00:05:43,319 --> 00:05:51,759
Speaker 6: So I actually graduated college about two three years ago.

94
00:05:52,319 --> 00:05:56,199
I'm pretty young, and I started a hedge fund, started

95
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,759
in an investment partnership. I went through all the hoops

96
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,759
like and saying all of that, and I was trying

97
00:06:02,759 --> 00:06:07,519
to think of a name for it. And I'm Irish

98
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,600
and I love knights, like I like Arthurian stuff and

99
00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:15,000
all that, and so I looked up like Irish knights

100
00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:17,720
and it came up the gallow glass, and I was like, well,

101
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,079
that's that's a cool word. And then I looked into

102
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,040
what it was all about. And basically, the galla Glass

103
00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:28,240
were a mercenary class. They were a class of people

104
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,639
very similar to like the samurai. It was like a

105
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:37,079
class that you lived in. And what they were is

106
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:46,319
they were foreigners, typically Scandinavian or Scottish men, who were

107
00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:51,959
huge warriors and were hired as mercenaries to fight for

108
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:59,439
lords and dukes in Ireland, in Britain. And you know, basically,

109
00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:04,000
back then it was a feudal system. So you had serfs,

110
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,560
you had peasants that rented, you know, their land from you,

111
00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:14,519
and a lord or a duke you know, had his

112
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,480
plot of land and that was all you really had.

113
00:07:17,639 --> 00:07:20,839
I mean, so basically you had all these land disputes

114
00:07:20,879 --> 00:07:25,279
between lords and dukes, and when they would get in

115
00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:29,879
these little battles, they would need a standing army. And look,

116
00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:32,199
you're not going to be hiring your peasants and your

117
00:07:32,199 --> 00:07:36,839
serfs to be fighting for you. They're malnourished, they don't

118
00:07:36,959 --> 00:07:40,560
like you, they're illiterate, you know, like they're not a

119
00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:44,519
very good army, and they have political you know, they

120
00:07:44,519 --> 00:07:46,879
want to kill you if anything, not killed the other guy.

121
00:07:49,079 --> 00:07:53,920
So they would have to hire, yeah, the galloglass, and yeah,

122
00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:56,759
they're really interesting. You see things like the Varangian Guard,

123
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,879
the Byzantine Empire similar where they would hire Scandinavian vikings

124
00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:05,720
to be like this sort of secret service for the

125
00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:11,920
Roman emperor because again they didn't have local political allegiances

126
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,360
or like ideas, so like, you know, you hire somebody

127
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,480
from the other side of the world, like they don't

128
00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:21,920
really care what's going on in your town or your country.

129
00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:24,879
You know, they're like you're paying me, Okay, I'll listen.

130
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,959
You know, they don't have an agenda so to speak. Yeah,

131
00:08:29,959 --> 00:08:34,080
I just thought I love the name, and after I

132
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:39,080
started the Hedgephon, I bought a bookstore and went down

133
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,879
that route because I couldn't turn that opportunity down. And

134
00:08:42,879 --> 00:08:45,840
then so the name was still available, and when we

135
00:08:45,879 --> 00:08:49,039
started publishing last year, I was like, oh, let's just

136
00:08:49,159 --> 00:08:50,799
keep that name. And that's a cool name.

137
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,720
Speaker 4: So yeah, the Knights Templar and them ever go to battle,

138
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,240
I mean they were kind of around the same time, right,

139
00:08:56,279 --> 00:08:57,679
So good question.

140
00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't I don't know what the crossover was there.

141
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,480
I know what the collab was, Yeah, what the collab was?

142
00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:07,679
I know the Ninth Templar more centered in like France

143
00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:13,039
and England. Where's the Galaglass for primarily in Ireland. I'm

144
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,759
sure there was collab. I'm sure there was crossover. I'm like,

145
00:09:17,799 --> 00:09:22,279
I would bet that Galloglass were sent to the Crusades

146
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,879
and things like that probably joined the Templar. I'd only

147
00:09:25,919 --> 00:09:28,840
be speculating the Well.

148
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,919
Speaker 4: It's interesting here. The Irish call them gall or Gael

149
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,120
foreign Gaels, and it's almost like the Holy Grail. You

150
00:09:35,159 --> 00:09:36,879
know it sounds it's like right along those lines.

151
00:09:36,919 --> 00:09:42,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that the the Anglicized version is Gallo glass,

152
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,320
but the original gay like is something like gall o

153
00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:50,080
glas and gall is like foreign. It means like, you know,

154
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,840
like gall like outside of Rome.

155
00:09:51,919 --> 00:09:54,799
Speaker 4: It's like the got the gal to tell me? Is

156
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,000
that where that comes from?

157
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:56,320
Speaker 7: Right?

158
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,639
Speaker 6: Probably does, But like portug goal is ports to gall.

159
00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:05,559
So gall kind of just meant like a foreign land

160
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,559
or the territory outside of outside of Rome, and so

161
00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:12,639
that's that's where the word comes from. It means foreign

162
00:10:12,759 --> 00:10:13,840
warrior basically.

163
00:10:14,799 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 4: Interesting. Yeah, I've never heard until you said that. You

164
00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:19,559
said it just I was like, it's got to have

165
00:10:19,639 --> 00:10:21,759
some significance and then I looked it up and it's

166
00:10:21,799 --> 00:10:25,360
like some mercenary warriors. What. Yeah.

167
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, we didn't pick a random name. That, thank gosh

168
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,960
makes sense, so always picking names.

169
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 4: Is that glass behind you, real, dude? Is that like

170
00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:36,279
some tiffing Tiffany glass or anything.

171
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 6: It's a stained glass, but not not Tiffany man.

172
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,480
Speaker 4: Or you wouldn't know. Did you ever see that article

173
00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:43,080
where they had where I think it was like a

174
00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,519
church or something had some glass and then it turned

175
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,720
out to be crazy expensive I.

176
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,039
Speaker 6: Didn't see that, but I'm familiar with Tiffany glass. Yeah,

177
00:10:53,399 --> 00:10:56,200
I've been to people's houses. You had it. I went

178
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,159
to a book collector and he collected it and I

179
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,320
was like, oh my god, like a private collection. He

180
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,639
invited me to go see and he had Tiffany lamps

181
00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:06,799
and stuff. Is crazy?

182
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 4: Is it? This one sold that rare Tiffany. I think

183
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,840
they sold it as regular and then they ended up

184
00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:18,440
finding out that it was like super super expensive.

185
00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it was sizable.

186
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,639
Speaker 4: I'm sure it was crazy cuz right, these guys right

187
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,600
speaking of Gallo glass and all this stuff, like glass

188
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,240
is part of alchemy, right, like the furnace and the heat,

189
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,919
and the thing about Tiffany glass, I believe it was

190
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,960
that they couldn't figure out how they got the color,

191
00:11:38,039 --> 00:11:40,279
for how they got it so vibrant. He had like

192
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,519
a specific certain process that was able to make it

193
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,360
look the way it looked. And that that's I guess

194
00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:49,600
soteric right there. That's a cult where only a certain

195
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,519
class of people know the certain trade. Like if you

196
00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:55,960
look at like the the Freemasons or something like, are

197
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,879
they actually do they actually hold some seacts of the occult?

198
00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:03,200
Or is it some secrets of the trade or like

199
00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:05,559
what is And I imagine that it starts off like that,

200
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,639
like a secret of the trade, sure, and then from

201
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,080
there it kind of sort of evolves into something more

202
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,720
secret society ish, yeah, to where they keep getting.

203
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:21,200
Speaker 6: I've heard, at least from various people that at one point,

204
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,039
you know, freemasonry kind of won out and stuck around.

205
00:12:25,159 --> 00:12:28,799
But I've heard that at one point in time, basically

206
00:12:28,879 --> 00:12:32,559
every craft had had its own guild or its own

207
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,080
society that used the language or vocabulary of that craft

208
00:12:38,799 --> 00:12:43,399
as analogy for spiritual matters. You know, so like painters

209
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:48,159
would be talking about you know, instead of compasses and things,

210
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,159
they'd be talking about paint brushes and canvases, you.

211
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,919
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, what have you to?

212
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000
Speaker 6: Almost every craft or a blacksmith, you know, their guild

213
00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:04,039
would be using blacksmithing jargon, yeah, for spiritual metaphor. But

214
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,600
that freemasonry is the one that's stuck around, you know.

215
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that and that would make sense. No, that definitely

216
00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:13,440
where it's like again, and that's what alchemy is all about.

217
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,639
Where it's like, is it the actual work, is it

218
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:17,679
the magnum opus or is it how you're saying this

219
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,919
spiritual movement of how to transcend reality with the soul

220
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,679
or become more pure or whatever it is. And this

221
00:13:24,799 --> 00:13:26,559
is the thing I was talking about is twenty twenty

222
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,159
three bought for six thousand dollars. Grime covered windows are

223
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,679
actually tiffany and worth up to two hundred and fifty

224
00:13:32,759 --> 00:13:37,840
thousand each of the Philadelphia Church. They sold it to

225
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,639
a collector and nobody knew how so he probably suddled.

226
00:13:40,639 --> 00:13:43,080
He's like, I know how much these are worth. I'm

227
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,840
going to get him for super cheap. And yeah, so

228
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,799
check that out. I mean, that's insane, that's.

229
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 6: Crazy looking bright I've heard about that.

230
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 4: Looks like a nebula and stuff in here. You see that? Yeah?

231
00:13:55,639 --> 00:14:02,639
Whoa And again right speaking about Yates and the Knight's

232
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,759
temp blar and everything and the idea of you know,

233
00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:07,600
folk and elly in the Mystery of the Cathedrals, which

234
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,600
would be another good book too, the to do uh

235
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,519
this concept of did they hide the secrets of the

236
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,440
magnum opus within the walls of these cathedrals? Why were

237
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,559
they so magnificent, why were they so beautiful? Why were

238
00:14:23,559 --> 00:14:26,600
they so intricate? And more importantly, who the hell funded

239
00:14:27,559 --> 00:14:29,799
all these buildings? And all the ones that we lost

240
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,080
throughout time because a lot of them were destroyed. And

241
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,480
what are our paces? You know?

242
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:35,399
Speaker 6: Yeah?

243
00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 4: So he paid six undred to purchase the pair, as

244
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:44,399
well as some wooden pews and doors, and there he

245
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,399
brought him to window Freeman's windows, to Freeman's Philadelphia and

246
00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:50,600
auction house for appraisal. There Brown learned that they were

247
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:52,840
worth much more than he had originally paid one hundred

248
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:58,080
and fifty thousand to two fifty each. Yikes, bro, wow,

249
00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:02,399
talk about what a great fine. I mean, what would

250
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:03,240
you do in that?

251
00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:04,639
Speaker 5: So?

252
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,559
Speaker 4: I think they this is where they sold them. I

253
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,200
wonder how much they sold Thursday for hundred?

254
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 6: Crazy?

255
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,159
Speaker 4: So how much they should they sell for? Do they know?

256
00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:20,279
Do they know? Here see the transcripts. So they actually

257
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:27,240
sold them, and they sold Let's see here the pair

258
00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:29,679
went up for auction ninety five thousand, looking for one

259
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,000
hundred is next the window sold for one hundred thousand

260
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,639
dollars each and you got them for six grand.

261
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:37,399
Speaker 6: That's crazy.

262
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 4: But look how beautiful that is? Dude?

263
00:15:40,879 --> 00:15:44,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, they are awesome. They probably belong in a better,

264
00:15:45,159 --> 00:15:48,759
better venue, honestly then just that little gallery.

265
00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you get something like this. How would

266
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,080
you even know what to like? How did that?

267
00:15:54,159 --> 00:15:54,639
Speaker 6: I agree?

268
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,519
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, Like, where where would you

269
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,440
even put this unless you are part of that industry

270
00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:03,159
where you're able to look at their like held together

271
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:03,600
by like.

272
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:06,399
Speaker 6: These little no way little ties.

273
00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is crazy. So yeah, the concept of this

274
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:18,320
occulted knowledge being kind of sort of hidden within these buildings.

275
00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:22,200
Can we talk about Thomas Taylor? This guy, he's really interesting.

276
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,000
I told you I had heard about a Thomas Taylor,

277
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,240
another Thomas Taylor, because when I had I've always known

278
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,960
about Thomas Taylor, but I never really knew anything about him.

279
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,240
I knew he had translated a bunch of works, and

280
00:16:34,799 --> 00:16:37,039
when I had stumbled across the other book A World

281
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,720
of a Voyage to the World of Cartisius, I thought

282
00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:44,600
it was this guy. But I was like, the timelines

283
00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:48,200
aren't matching up. You know, this guy's eighteenth century out

284
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,399
of the book of seventeenth century, Like, it doesn't It

285
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,840
didn't line up. And when you look up the other

286
00:16:53,919 --> 00:16:58,279
tom or t Taylor, t Taylor, you don't get anything

287
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,120
like It's like it it's a work of satire. The

288
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:07,160
author's name was like some Jesuit monk or something who

289
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,400
was he contributed to, like the lexicon of Descartes. He

290
00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:15,559
was like a descarteso terrosis. And when you look him up,

291
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,759
it's literally just that he wrote that one book on

292
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,319
descar and like contributed to like some lexicon or some

293
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,799
other thing. And there's nothing else. Gabriel Daniel, very biblical name,

294
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,319
nothing else. Work of sattire was it? Does it have

295
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,839
some hidden meaning? And it was by translated by t. Taylor.

296
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,240
But obviously this whole thing, there's a lot of works.

297
00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:41,000
He was a pagan, and I like, can we talk

298
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:42,720
a little bit about this Thomas Taylor?

299
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:47,559
Speaker 6: Sure, yes, so Thomas Taylor. He was a Taurus by

300
00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:51,000
the way, Oh well, like like yourself, I believe, yep.

301
00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:57,160
He was born in the late seventeen hundreds. He was

302
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,960
a savant, meaning he was not just good at what

303
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,839
he did. He was like the Jimi Hendrix of what

304
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,559
he did, you know, Like he was a translator of

305
00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:17,519
ancient Greek into English. He was the first translator to

306
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,680
go from ancient Greek directly to English, at least of

307
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,559
anyone doing anything important. So all of the works of

308
00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:30,279
Plato and Aristotle in the Neoplatonists, Emperor Julian. All of

309
00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:34,279
these important works of Greece and Rome that were written

310
00:18:34,319 --> 00:18:37,680
in ancient Greek had never been translated directly into English.

311
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,119
They had been translated into Latin, so from Greek to

312
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,960
Latin to English. But in that triangle, in that triangulation,

313
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,759
you get a lot of you know, tom foolery going on.

314
00:18:54,079 --> 00:18:58,000
And also people would be taking Facina's translations from the

315
00:18:58,079 --> 00:19:01,519
Renaissance from Greek to Latin, and then they'd be translating

316
00:19:01,559 --> 00:19:05,799
off of his Latin. So basically anytime up until him,

317
00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:09,000
that ancient Greek was making its way into English, it

318
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:14,039
was kind of a disaster. And he came along and

319
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,160
was able to create the infrastructure to translate from ancient

320
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:24,079
Greek directly into English, and then he just went off.

321
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:28,319
He translated the complete works of Aristotle, complete works of Plato,

322
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,559
complete works of Platinus, porphry Proclus, Julian, all of these people.

323
00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:38,839
I mean, if you see his complete works of what

324
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,319
he translated in one lifetime, it's disgusting. Like you could

325
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,599
just line up books for like, you know, it's it's

326
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,920
totally ridiculous. So you fill up a room, and these

327
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,119
are not easy things to translate. There's some of the

328
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,279
most complex things. Whoa, yeah, yeah, it's like unbelievable. Oh

329
00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:04,480
yea Amplicius of course, Well yeah, totally wild. I mean,

330
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:06,119
look at what he's doing just in one year.

331
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 4: You know, how are you finding enough time for this?

332
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:10,119
Is my question.

333
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,759
Speaker 6: So he was obsessed. All he cared about was ancient

334
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:19,400
Greek in Platonism. He was a Platonist. That's the important distinction.

335
00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:25,079
Other people translate. He was a you know, master translator

336
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,240
as well as a philosopher, and so when he's translating

337
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,079
from you know, Plato into English, he will tweak things

338
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,640
as a philosopher because he is such a deep understanding

339
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:43,680
the stuff. Studying in the classical Greek with his Platonic education,

340
00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:48,799
he understands the metaphysics and the logic, the cosmology, all

341
00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:51,079
of it down to t I mean, he could write

342
00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:54,240
the stuff himself. And so when he goes to translate,

343
00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:57,319
like what comes out the other end is just the

344
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,559
only thing worth reading as far as Platonism goes. If

345
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:05,640
you're reading other translators, I mean it's probably okay. I'm

346
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,920
not saying that they're mistranslating, but they might not actually

347
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,160
understand what this material is, and so they're translating it

348
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,480
on a literal basis, and that's not always the best

349
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,559
way to be translating because a lot of words of

350
00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:25,160
different connotations in our language, and philosophy is ultimately a

351
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,039
game of language, you know, of of describing things. So

352
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,559
the translation is very important. These things are not you know,

353
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,599
it's not what translation of Warren Peace are you reading?

354
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:39,880
You know, these these are important, Like if Platinis or

355
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,640
Plato is saying something you want to you want to

356
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,279
make sure that you understand it and that the translator

357
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,400
understood it too. So he's a huge deal. He he

358
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:54,359
caused a Platonic revival in England in the early eighteen hundreds.

359
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,200
He was friends with William Blake, friends with a lot

360
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,000
of other you know, movers and shakers in the world

361
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,400
the philosophy. And you see after him that it was

362
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,000
like a drop of LSD into the culture. All these

363
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,000
people in the Victorian era and then into the late

364
00:22:12,039 --> 00:22:15,519
eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, all the way up to

365
00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:19,240
people like Manly P. Hall are still reading Thomas Taylor

366
00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,400
and you know a lot of times too, like if

367
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,200
you read Mona and it'll be a chapter and it

368
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,160
has his footnotes, so you're reading his footnotes and then

369
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,279
which are treasures, trust me. And then after the chapter

370
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,200
it'll be notes on you know, the chapter before and

371
00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:43,079
their notes from him. It's almost like a little commentary

372
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,880
at the end. So you know what you're getting with

373
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,720
Taylor is just you know. And I will say, yes,

374
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:52,720
we sell books, but all of Tom's Taylor's translations are

375
00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:56,680
public domain. Please go read them online. They're all free.

376
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,440
I mean, yes, if you want them in a beautiful

377
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:05,839
book by our book, but regardless, people should be reading them.

378
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,000
He's extremely important. He was rumored to have spoken Greek

379
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,599
in the kitchen with his ancient sorry ancient Greek with

380
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,119
his wife, Like him and his wife would be talking

381
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,160
about people in ancient Greek, so they couldn't.

382
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 4: Her dad one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence,

383
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:24,200
John Morton, Is that the same one?

384
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 6: I don't know. That'd be interesting.

385
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 4: Because it says here in nineteen so he married his

386
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,559
childhood sweetheart, Mary Morton, daughter of John Morton. Yeah, could be,

387
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,039
and John Morton A John Morton signed it signed it.

388
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I don't I'd be speculating, but it could

389
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,720
be definitely. I mean, if his name was worthy of

390
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:53,640
being mentioned and Wikipedia, that's possible. But he's a big deal.

391
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,839
Growing up. I would watch Santos Binacci when I was

392
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,680
like in late high school and in college. You know, he

393
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,160
was big back then. And Santos Bonacci is a neoplatonist.

394
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,920
That is his that is his worldview is like syncretism, neoplatonism.

395
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,759
So I was always hearing about neoplatonism in Plato. My

396
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:24,319
older brother read the complete works of Plato and was

397
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:27,599
always talking about Plato. I studied him in school too,

398
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,319
and uh, you know, that's one of the best places

399
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:38,200
to start with philosophy. And Santos would always be mentioning

400
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,279
Thomas Taylor. He would say, like, hey, if you're reading

401
00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:45,240
Plato or the Neoplatonists, make sure you're reading Thomas Taylor's translations.

402
00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:49,839
I know this isn't your thing, but the Greek philosophers

403
00:24:49,839 --> 00:24:54,279
were all vegetarian and Thomas Taylor was also a vegetarian,

404
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:58,799
so he totally walked the walk like everything about he

405
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:02,200
he lived as if he was an ancient Greek philosopher,

406
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:06,240
So like, this is the guy that you want to

407
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:09,680
be reading. Is that anyway? Santos would talk about him

408
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,640
all the time, and I kind of just shelved it

409
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,400
in the back of my mind. But I went into

410
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,640
the bookstore that we ended up buying when I was

411
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,160
a customer there. The guy had run it for fifty

412
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,759
years and I remember being in there one time, so yeah,

413
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:27,359
he knew a lot. I remember being in there one time.

414
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:28,759
Speaker 4: He's still around.

415
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 6: Yep. Yeah, he's retired, but he's still around.

416
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 4: Podcast with him.

417
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,839
Speaker 6: Bro, that'd be crazy. He's eighty five and he's been

418
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,599
doing this stuff his entire life. And he one time

419
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:44,839
I was in there and he said, if you're reading

420
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,920
the Platonists, like the Amblicus who has a book on

421
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:51,960
Pythagoras called The Life of Pythagoras, it's really good.

422
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 4: From your store.

423
00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:59,279
Speaker 6: It's translated by Tom Taylor, that the one you have. Yeah,

424
00:25:59,319 --> 00:26:02,680
so that he had that book in his store and

425
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:05,440
he said like, hey, this is translated by this guy,

426
00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:09,039
Thomas Taylor. You know, if you're reading the Playtis, make

427
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:13,119
sure you're reading from this these translations. And so then

428
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,000
I had this kind of confirmation between Santos and this

429
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,559
guy Tamash who I bought the bookstore from independently of

430
00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:24,559
each other. And in my head I remember thinking like, oh, wow,

431
00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:28,200
like this must be some translator, because I keep hearing

432
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,400
his name, you know, from people who clearly know what

433
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,640
they're talking about, and it's not often you hear a translator,

434
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:36,480
you know of that notoriety.

435
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it is the Mary because I

436
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,759
looked up here American politician had five daughters, and down

437
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:51,079
here it talks about his daughters. Uh wow, three sons,

438
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:58,799
five daughters, Aaron Sketchly, John, Mary, Sarah, Lydia, and Elizabeth Nice.

439
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,759
Speaker 6: So yeah, that's interesting connection.

440
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 4: I think it's the same the same people, but it

441
00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:06,480
is interesting. Right, one of the signers of the Declaration

442
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:09,759
of Independence. Let me confirm that as a delegate to

443
00:27:09,759 --> 00:27:11,680
the Continent of the Congression in the American Revolution, he

444
00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:17,359
was a signatory to the Continental Association and Decroit Declaration

445
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,240
of Independence. Right, Thomas, here's a father in law. Seems

446
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:26,480
like yeah, I mean right. So Morton provided the swing

447
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,960
vote that Pennsylvania to vote in the favor of the declaration.

448
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,319
So this guy was like pivotal to that whole thing,

449
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:39,880
or else they'd literally be hung and we probably wouldn't

450
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,240
be here right now, because I'd be on my trash

451
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:43,319
island in the Caribbean.

452
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,319
Speaker 6: One thing that you mentioned was oftentimes Thomas Taylor is

453
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,079
seen as being a sort of I wouldn't say martyr

454
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,799
because it's not like he was killed, but kind of

455
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:00,559
like a hero for neo paganism or paganism in general,

456
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,039
because he was living obviously in that time at a

457
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:10,160
very Christian using England, a very Christian time. It was

458
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:18,400
not cool or interesting or even really acceptable to you know,

459
00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:27,759
be taking Greek philosophy as primary over Christianity, and so

460
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:30,519
he kind of went against the grain because that's what

461
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:33,759
he loved. And so he is seen as being kind

462
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:38,119
of part of the revival of paganism, you know, and

463
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,920
paganism gets the term gets thrown around a lot. I'm

464
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,960
not talking about like wearing goat horns and whatever. I'm

465
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,359
talking about like just you know, classical religion and spirituality

466
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:54,240
from the ancient world, which the Greek tradition is very

467
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:58,440
much at the forefront of. So he does get lumped

468
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,960
in as a pagan quite often. Then people label him

469
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,720
like that, which is not bad.

470
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's definitely a sympathizer, right like he was. He

471
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:10,279
said he was kind of sort of practicing it, and

472
00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:13,519
he called did he call i Amblicus the most divine?

473
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:16,240
Is that him? Or do they call Amblicus?

474
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

475
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,319
Speaker 6: A lot of times Taylor probably did call him that.

476
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,519
But I know that Emperor Julian. I don't know if

477
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:29,920
you're familiar with Julian, but really interesting figure. He was

478
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:36,160
actually Byzantine emperor, Roman emperor who famously said that he

479
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,680
would give up, like the whole empire for for a

480
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,599
few letters back and forth with the Amblicus. Really yeah,

481
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:47,839
like the Amblicus is unreal. His book on the Mysteries

482
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,279
we will be publishing eventually in his well worth reading,

483
00:29:52,440 --> 00:30:01,359
especially the tailor translation the Amblicus, I Amblicus is h interesting.

484
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,759
He's the bad boy of Neoplatonism, so kind of how

485
00:30:05,799 --> 00:30:13,160
Aristotle was to Plato. Where you know, in ancient Greece

486
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,359
you have Socrates and then Platos student, and an Aristotle

487
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,000
is Plato student. So there's a lineage. But Aristotle sort

488
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:24,359
of is the bad boy as well, where he turns

489
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,000
on a lot of what Plato was into, like his

490
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,359
theory of forms now becomes this very much material materialist

491
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:39,039
philosophy of Aristotle. Things like that that he basically completely

492
00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:44,039
flipped on a lot of Platonic ideas, and the same

493
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:47,759
thing happens in the Neoplatonists. I guess a little bit

494
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:53,039
of background. The Neoplatonists are Roman philosophers. They spoke Greek,

495
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:55,839
so a lot of people will call them Greek philosophers,

496
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,880
and that's fine. They're in the Greco Roman tradition. They

497
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,400
lived primarily in Alexandria Egypt, which at the time was

498
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,519
occupied by Rome the Roman Empire, or they lived in

499
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:21,039
Rome itself. And the godfather of Neoplatonism, the founder was Platinus.

500
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,640
And Platinus starts up in Alexandria and in Rome. I

501
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,519
think he traveled back and forth a little bit, and

502
00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:33,559
he starts up his own school. He had a very

503
00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:37,279
famous teacher named Ammonius Sakus, who's it's pulled up right

504
00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:41,759
there actually, and he's important. He's kind of like a

505
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:46,000
sage that we don't know much about, but he taught

506
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,799
some really important people, like Origin. He's an early Christian theologian,

507
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:58,480
and obviously Platinus and others, and so Platinus restarts this

508
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:04,680
movement of Playton. Aristotle's philosophy had ruled over philosophy for

509
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,960
a few hundred years and Platinus wants to return to

510
00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:15,000
the pure philosophy of Plato, just just Platonic philosophy. He

511
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:17,759
does work in Aristol, so it's not like he totally

512
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:20,240
ignores him, but he wants to get back more to Plato.

513
00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:26,599
And then Platinus's student was Porphyry, who's also in Monad

514
00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,799
and porphy is really important. He writes a bunch of books,

515
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,799
and then later on.

516
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: He writes a bunch of books. That's why he's important.

517
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, well we'll get we'll get into more details. But

518
00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:41,599
just some people have a kind of general layout. And

519
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,240
then you have Iamblicuss, who we're just talking about who's

520
00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:50,240
the bad boy because he so Platinus and Porphyry kind

521
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,200
of have their ideas and they think very similarly. They

522
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,559
don't really disagree on much. But then Iamblicus is the

523
00:32:56,559 --> 00:33:02,039
third in line, just like Aristotle was, and rebels on

524
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:04,720
a lot of things, a lot of important ideas, like

525
00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:08,000
he thinks that the soul is fully descended into the body.

526
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,319
He thinks that matter in the material world plays a

527
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,799
much larger role in his cosmology and in the ascent

528
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,880
back the divine. Then Platonis would so he does disagree

529
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,079
with a lot, but he's yeah, he is razor sharp,

530
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,319
like totally, I mean he is. All these guys were

531
00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:36,160
just un you know, they were being raised from the

532
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,400
time there were little kids to be philosophers, and they

533
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,160
would attend the Platonic Academy or be tutored by, you know,

534
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,240
these great minds. And you know they were not learning

535
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:53,799
about whatever you know, zoology or you know, geography or something.

536
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:55,799
They were learning about philosophy. And if they were learning

537
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,839
about things like math or science or whatever it was,

538
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,160
it was all as it relates to Platonic philosophy. And

539
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,880
so if you throw up a big question, you have

540
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,119
the biggest questions like what is justice? What is the soul?

541
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,519
You know, how does the world come into being out

542
00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:16,360
of nothing? Like you could think of the big the

543
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,599
big questions, and these guys just are like chat ept

544
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,199
they just fireback, you know, like their minds were so

545
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,360
sharp that I say it in Monad, I wrote the

546
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,119
little flaps on the book and I say it in there.

547
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,440
I don't think, and I've done a lot of reading.

548
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:40,159
I don't think anybody since the Neoplatonists has tackled these

549
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,360
topics with as sharp of a mind. There's been a

550
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,000
lot of really smart people and a lot of really interesting ideas,

551
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,360
but I don't read anyone where I'm like wow, like

552
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,840
these the intellect on these guys are is like ferocious,

553
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,599
you know, it's almost they're like gladiators, like they were

554
00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:02,000
just born to do this mm hm. And so reading

555
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:07,000
them's a pleasure. But you do see that that weird

556
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,039
archetypal almost like family aspect where the third in line

557
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,119
rebels against the previous two. Uh So you have Socrates

558
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:21,559
plat out and then Aristol's the third and he rebels

559
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:23,559
against a lot of what they taught, and then you

560
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:27,440
have Platinus Porphrey, and then the Amblicus rebels against what

561
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,000
the previous two it taught. And you see this played

562
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:34,360
out in myth So it's an archetypal pattern. You see

563
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,599
it in Star Wars you have with the Qui gungin

564
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,719
Obi wan Kenobi and then Anakin is a bad boy.

565
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:46,599
It's always the third one, you know. You have, yeah,

566
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:49,599
you have the Master and then you have his like

567
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,960
you know, sort of loyal star student who takes his teachings,

568
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,280
doesn't ask any questions, and then the third in line

569
00:35:57,159 --> 00:35:58,920
is like wait a minute, what are we doing here?

570
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,599
You know, they start to question and they start to

571
00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:04,119
break away, and you see that play out in philosophy too,

572
00:36:04,199 --> 00:36:05,559
which is funny.

573
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,679
Speaker 4: And what would you say, So, right, they believe in

574
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,480
the One, which is right, the Monad, the Source.

575
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:21,039
Speaker 6: Right. So neoplatonism the basics are that it's a hierarchical cosmology.

576
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,920
What that means is they want to start with the

577
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,480
source and then work their way back, you know, down

578
00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:35,000
to right now. They don't want to start with right

579
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,480
here and then sort of reverse engineer back to the source, which.

580
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 4: Which is religion nowadays you're working in this life for

581
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:42,400
the afterlife.

582
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. They want to start with the biggest possible question,

583
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:50,719
which is what is God? What is the absolute? What

584
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,119
is the source of the universe, the source of all things?

585
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,760
For them, they call it the Monad, the One. And

586
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,039
then from the air you get this top down model,

587
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,800
a cascading great chain of being that comes from the Neoplatonists,

588
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,760
or a hierarchy of things, things that are higher levels

589
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,280
of being or higher levels of order, which work their

590
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:21,960
way down to the material world, which is of course

591
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:26,920
at the bottom. So that's where you get neoplatonism. Or

592
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,239
the Platonic cosmology is. They start with the one, which

593
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,039
is two things. It is beyond being itself, meaning it's

594
00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:42,519
entirely transcendent. That's what it's mystical neoplatonism. It's entirely beyond being.

595
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:47,840
So even being, like existence is a thing, a concept,

596
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,400
or an experience that is within it, you know, it's

597
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,960
not even subject to that. It's beyond that, and so

598
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:01,440
it in some sense doesn't exist at all. It's entirely

599
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:06,960
beyond any words. But yet at the same time, because

600
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:13,440
it's everything, like God would be, because it's also everything,

601
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:17,599
it's entirely imminent, meaning it's also here at all times.

602
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:21,360
Everything is a part of it. And you know, these

603
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,239
are kind of strange ideas to get used to, but

604
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,760
once you get I kind of call it being. Once

605
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,480
you get initiated into the Platonic way of thinking, you

606
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:35,559
never go back. Whether you agree or not, it doesn't matter.

607
00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:40,079
It's just a different way of looking at things. They're

608
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:45,880
always trying to reconcile dualities, so that's sort of their

609
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,719
method for going up climbing the ladder up to the

610
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:58,119
one is to identify contradictions or dualities and solve them

611
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,840
with what they call a dialectic, So they'll use a

612
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,840
dialectic to sort of reconcile two opposites into one sort

613
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,039
of solution or unity that contains those two opposites within it.

614
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:17,519
A good example is beauty, one of Platinus's most famous

615
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,280
essays in Enads, which is in monad Is, and you

616
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,039
can actually hear Manly p Hall has a good lecture

617
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:31,079
on this. It's called on Beauty by Platinus, and in

618
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:35,079
that he is trying to get to the bottom of

619
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:41,360
what beauty is and that's a big question, and you know,

620
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,679
sort of reiterate. Their method is this dialectical method. So

621
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,039
what he'll start with is saying, okay, what is beauty?

622
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:55,320
And someone might say, oh, beauty is symmetry, and he'll say, well,

623
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,280
you know, beauty is not symmetry, but symmetry is beautiful.

624
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,840
You see what I'm saying. And then you know, someone'll

625
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,800
he'll kind of come back, because he's always kind of

626
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,480
just talking with himself. I'll say, well, can asymmetry be beautiful?

627
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:15,639
And of course answers yes, right. You can look at

628
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:18,559
a beautiful home, like a house that's asymmetrical, you know,

629
00:40:18,599 --> 00:40:21,519
one side's tall, one side's short or whatever it is.

630
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:24,840
You could look at a beautiful face that's asymmetrical. You

631
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,800
could look at you know, Japanese artwork tends to be asymmetrical,

632
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,800
so asymmetry can always, of course be beautiful. And so

633
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,400
by taking these two opposites of symmetry and asymmetry, he's

634
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,519
looking for what is the unifying principle, the form of

635
00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:50,360
beauty that is being found in these two opposites, And

636
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,719
by pitting them against each other, he can it's almost

637
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,559
like alchemy. By pitting to these two opposites against each other,

638
00:40:55,599 --> 00:41:00,920
he can extract with the essence that's contained in them.

639
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,840
And and he's doing this all mentally. It's these are

640
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,199
these are contemplative processes. It's like a meditation part of there.

641
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,800
He'll sit there and just think and think and think, well, okay,

642
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,280
if symmetry is beautiful, asymmetry is beautiful, what the hell

643
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,079
is beauty? Because it's in both of these, uh, and

644
00:41:18,119 --> 00:41:21,960
it's not either one. And you know, the answer that

645
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,599
you sort of get get to is it is a

646
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:29,480
transcendent principle. Transcendent meaning it's not here, it's not you

647
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:32,559
can't look at beauty itself. But the capital B. You know,

648
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,280
like the actual idea of beauty is not just like

649
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,679
out here walking around. The things that are out here

650
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,719
walking around or on walls as paintings, are participating in

651
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:48,960
a higher order idea that's called that is beauty with

652
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,960
a capital B, and that's called a form. And these

653
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,119
these are platonic forms, and things participate in them. And

654
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,360
so by using that dialectic he can now have an

655
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,719
awareness or realization of forms, which are a very high

656
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:14,119
order of things of intellect. And by climbing this ladder,

657
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:20,920
so to speak, upwards, using the dialectical method and reasoning,

658
00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:23,800
you can get to these states of being where you

659
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:30,400
can sort of be comprehending, understanding the forms themselves. And

660
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,880
once you're doing that, I mean you're really you're really

661
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,679
a smart, a smart cookie. You know, you understand how

662
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,519
things work, so to speak. And that really is Platonism

663
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,320
is the assent back to the one, back to the

664
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,159
source through reason for the most part, through thinking. So

665
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,280
it's almost like anti Buddhism or something. You're not trying

666
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,719
to annihilate the mind. You're trying to use your God

667
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,719
give an intellect. Because the Greeks think of intellect, you

668
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:09,760
oftentimes you hear intellect untranslated as just noos. This is

669
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,280
a Greek word. And they thought that the noos in

670
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:18,039
your mind right is a is a connection to the

671
00:43:18,159 --> 00:43:21,159
divine mind. It's a little piece of the divine mind

672
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:25,239
that you have. And so they thought, wow, like annihilate

673
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,480
your mind. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard, you know,

674
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:30,599
Like these meditation people, you're like, just turn it off.

675
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,960
You know, They're like, what the hell? Like this is

676
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,119
like it is like the way out, This is like

677
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:39,719
the this is like what we've been given. You know,

678
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,119
when you hear people like in the Bible say that

679
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,840
we're made in God's image, it's like that, you know,

680
00:43:45,199 --> 00:43:49,440
like the the intellect in your mind is our rope

681
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,920
up to the the Great, to the divine intellect that

682
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:59,199
is the whole world. And so they would, you know,

683
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:04,039
their form of contemplation or meditation was like a supercharged mind.

684
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,119
They were like, wow, like, if this is my my

685
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,119
connection to the divine, my intellect, I need to purify myself.

686
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,079
I need to be moral and ethical, and I need

687
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:19,280
to make sure that this intellect is sharp as close

688
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,360
to the divine intellect as possible. And then we can

689
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:29,519
start working upwards to sort of realize the source, realize

690
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,599
where everything comes from, you know, the absolutes to see

691
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:36,360
the whole world as it is. And one of the

692
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,559
things I really liked about the Neoplatonists was when you

693
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:47,559
reach that state of total awareness of the one, it's

694
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:49,599
so you know, it's kind of an enlightenment state. I

695
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,639
guess you would say we're a Nirvana type of thing.

696
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:56,679
You don't stay there, so you don't just check out.

697
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:02,079
You're you actually now in the neoplatonic tradition, have a

698
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:09,480
duty to responsibility to come back down like a lightning bolt,

699
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:14,079
back into your body and view the world almost like

700
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:18,599
a superhero who sees the world supercharged, where you see

701
00:45:18,639 --> 00:45:21,280
the source of everything. You know, so if you see

702
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:25,880
a computer, you see the form of computer, you know,

703
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,000
the idea of a computer from which that particular computer

704
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,360
is emanating from. So you almost see, like x ray vision,

705
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,519
where things are coming from and their sources are, where

706
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:42,920
their power comes from. So to speak, they are almost

707
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,599
symbols for you know, these concepts of these pure concepts,

708
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,719
they are diluted material versions of the pure idea of something,

709
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,880
and you have realized those ideas those forms and now

710
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,960
you see things in completely different way. And that was

711
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,519
sort of the path, so to speak, of the Neoplatonists.

712
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:13,039
Speaker 4: Whoa dude, Yeah, I've always kind of their their emanationists

713
00:46:13,079 --> 00:46:15,719
try where everything that we're observing now is an emanation

714
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,440
of the source of the One.

715
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, so the One their cosmology more or less is

716
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:25,960
the One, or the monad or the absolute is. Like

717
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:33,119
I said, it is a completely transcendent thing. It's not

718
00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:36,360
a thing at all, it's not a being, it's you know,

719
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,079
all it's a big circle that every single thing I'm

720
00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:44,199
speaking metaphorically obviously, that every single thing or idea or

721
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:52,239
form of being is inside of And so you have

722
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,760
the One, and then you have the News, which is

723
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,400
the divine mind, it is the intellect. It is where

724
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:05,599
the forms are located, obviously not spatially located, because they're

725
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:10,000
not like floating around. And then you have the world soul,

726
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,320
you have the Anima Mundi, and then you have the

727
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,239
material world.

728
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,519
Speaker 4: Now, this makes a lot more sense to me what

729
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:17,920
Flood was trying to get at.

730
00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you know, we can get into that. But

731
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:28,159
basically all of the Renaissance were Neoplatonists. All of them

732
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:35,639
the Renaissance painters were painting Neoplatonic ideas, people like Michelangelo.

733
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:40,119
It's been said that you can't even understand Michelangelo or

734
00:47:40,159 --> 00:47:45,400
Renaissance painting without understanding Neoplatonism. It was so much a

735
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,960
part of the time because basically what happened was and

736
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,199
I've talked about this on your show before, but either

737
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:59,079
when the Roman Empire falls in like five hundred ish,

738
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,400
and we're talking about the Western Roman Empire, the capital

739
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,719
of the Roman Empire has moved to Constantinople, which we

740
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:13,960
now call the Byzantine Empire. And after the Roman Empire

741
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,679
falls in Western Europe, so France, Germany and England, Spain,

742
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:21,119
all those countries, they are left in what's called the

743
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:25,079
Dark Ages or the Middle Ages for almost a thousand years.

744
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,400
The reason that they're called the Dark Ages or the

745
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:36,599
Middle Ages is they lost their connection to the classical world,

746
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,480
to the ancient world. So when the Roman Empire fell

747
00:48:40,639 --> 00:48:44,920
in the Western Europe with them, all the knowledge was

748
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,920
lost temporarily. They didn't know how to build domes, they

749
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,599
didn't know how to build arches, they didn't read Plato,

750
00:48:53,639 --> 00:48:56,079
they didn't have Plato in the Middle Ages at all

751
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,119
in Western Europe, so people like Saint Thomas Aquinas, there

752
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:03,239
are people people who were big philosophers in the Middle

753
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,760
Ages did not have the Platonists, and so there are Aristotelians,

754
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,920
their materialists, which is kind of leads to a Dark

755
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:17,519
Age materialism. And you know, of course there's like economic

756
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:20,639
factors too, that they had a feudal system and all

757
00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:23,599
of that. This is kind of a disaster overall. But

758
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:29,440
in the East, in Turkey, uh in Constantinople, you had

759
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,679
the Byzantine Empire. They were the remnants of the Roman Empire,

760
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,079
and they still had everything. They still had Plato, they

761
00:49:36,119 --> 00:49:39,199
still had the Neoplate Platonists, they had Latinas, all these people,

762
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,760
they still had the writings, and they were bawling out

763
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:45,559
and they were were They were building domes and arches,

764
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:48,159
and they had they had all the classical knowledge of

765
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:54,639
sculpture and perspective and whatever, and they were doing great.

766
00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:01,320
And what happens is the Byzantine Empire fall to the

767
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:06,880
Turks at Muslim invaders, and that's in the fourteen hundreds.

768
00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:11,119
And what happens is all of the Romans they spoke

769
00:50:11,199 --> 00:50:15,679
Greek from the Byzantine Empire come back to Western Europe

770
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:20,079
to Italy and bring with them all of the classical knowledge.

771
00:50:20,639 --> 00:50:23,920
They bring back Plato, they bring back Platinis, they bring

772
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,280
back the architecture, all of that, and this causes the

773
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:34,280
Renaissance in Italy. And one of the first things the

774
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:40,719
Medicis did, I believe is the Medici's was higher Marsilio

775
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:46,239
Ficino to translate the Hermetic corpus, all of the Hermetic

776
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,239
texts coming back from Constantinople, which again had been absent

777
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:56,800
from Western Europe, and translate Plato, translate Platinis, translate all

778
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:04,119
of these amazing Platonists philosophers, and also had Ficino start

779
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:09,239
a Platonic academy in Rome, or maybe it was in Florence.

780
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:09,719
I'm not sure.

781
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,199
Speaker 4: He was the first one before Taylor, right, that had

782
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,760
like kickstarted the Bible.

783
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 6: You're right, he translated everything into Latin. And that causes

784
00:51:20,119 --> 00:51:26,000
a revival of Platonism that fuels the Renaissance, fuels all

785
00:51:26,039 --> 00:51:31,239
the mysticism of the Renaissance. And many people believe, by

786
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:37,039
the way that the advent of Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry in

787
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:41,079
the late fifteen hundreds early sixteen hundreds was a way

788
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:46,360
of codifying this Platonic knowledge that had been lost. So

789
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,400
because it had been lost in the Middle Ages, the

790
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,639
elite or the educated in Europe didn't ever want to

791
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:58,440
lose it again, and they said, how can we codify it?

792
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:02,480
How can we make this into a system, systematize it,

793
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:10,000
you know, and preserve it forever. And people do suspect

794
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:15,639
that Freemasonry and Resecrutionism were ways to take Platonic classical

795
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:22,559
education or worldview and systematize it in a way that

796
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:27,000
everyone can be not everyone, but could be initiated into

797
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:31,320
in successive states so that it would not that Western

798
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,960
Europe would not fall into a dark age again. And

799
00:52:35,039 --> 00:52:38,440
I believe that it's probably true. It's probably a big

800
00:52:38,599 --> 00:52:39,920
reason behind it. At least.

801
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:44,119
Speaker 4: What do you say, because I've always said that the

802
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,760
Platinus and the neo Platinists and all these guys, they

803
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,239
paved the way for Christianity because right like they were

804
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,159
very right, or the Gnostics at least in from there

805
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:58,400
you have everything else. Is that accurate to say? Because

806
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,159
I'm sure I can think of a few people or

807
00:53:00,199 --> 00:53:02,920
scholars that would disagree and be like, you know, Christians

808
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,800
were their own thing, and then they did their own thing,

809
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,760
and they evolved, you know, on their own. It's like

810
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,119
they didn't pick up any pagan traditions or anything like that.

811
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, I I you know, I'm not I'm not gonna

812
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:21,039
like downplay Christianity in any way, of course, but you know,

813
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,119
Christianity evolved in a context. It did not evolve in

814
00:53:25,159 --> 00:53:30,239
a vacuum. And the context of Christianity is a Roman

815
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:36,280
occupied Middle East and North Africa and Europe. And so

816
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,679
Christianity evolved in Rome, and it evolved in a Greek

817
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,800
most primarily in Greek speaking parts of Rome. So the

818
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:51,880
idea that it could escape without being influenced by Roman

819
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:59,920
and Greek philosophy is is obviously silly and absolutely early Christianity,

820
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:05,400
particularly the theology. So it's not I wouldn't say anything like, oh,

821
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,320
you know, it was being like written into the Bible

822
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,360
or anything like that. It was more that although the

823
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,480
Gospel of John could be neo Platonic, it was more

824
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:20,480
that the theologians, the philosophers of early Christianity had to

825
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,519
fall back on something, some kind of you know, a

826
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,679
way of orienting the world that they could work their

827
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:35,320
biblical knowledge onto some kind of framework and neoplatons with

828
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:40,719
absolutely the framework for early Christian theology, and the Orthodox

829
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,880
Greek Orthodox Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church maintains a

830
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:51,519
lot more neoplatonic ideas, like particularly about the Trinity and

831
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:56,400
things like that than like the Catholic Protestant churches. But

832
00:54:56,519 --> 00:55:02,000
what you see is that these theologians, I mean to

833
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:04,639
be perfectly honest, if you read the Bible, there's not

834
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,159
that much theology in it.

835
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 4: Well, I think about this, not that.

836
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 6: It's not there, but it's it's symbolic or it's in

837
00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:15,800
kind of blanket statements. It's not like the Bible is

838
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,840
going deep diving into particulars of theology. And so these

839
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:26,159
issues had to be worked out, and the environment that

840
00:55:26,199 --> 00:55:30,440
they're being worked out in is a neoplatonic environment. You know,

841
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:36,960
like people like Origin, who's really important early Christian theologian,

842
00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:42,239
or Saint Augustine. These people like Augustine was reading Platinis.

843
00:55:43,639 --> 00:55:48,800
Augustine was a Neoplatonist there, I say, and you know,

844
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:53,760
obviously one of the most important Christian theologians ever. Origin

845
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,480
was sort of one of the earliest and was the

846
00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:01,880
Origin was in the same class as Platinists. Like they

847
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,159
had the same teacher, you know, they were like classmates.

848
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:11,320
And so yes, we we definitely know thation, right, yeah, yeah,

849
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,039
so we definitely know that Christian theology was influenced by Neoplatonism.

850
00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:18,320
And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like saying

851
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:23,280
that takes away from it or anything. They just were using.

852
00:56:24,199 --> 00:56:27,440
And I think that you know, Neoplatonism is often termed

853
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:32,920
like syncretism because it's Neoplatonism or Plato, all all the Platonists.

854
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:38,639
It's not there's not a lot of symbolism, meaning like

855
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,840
the One or the Monad is an idea. It's not

856
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:48,920
a god, it's not a person, angels, they have levels

857
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,800
of ideas there, their concepts, they're not things that you

858
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:58,480
can get attached to. And I think that that makes

859
00:56:58,519 --> 00:57:02,400
it the perfect sort of skill Elton to put something

860
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,159
else on. So you can take Christian symbolism like the God,

861
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,880
the you know, God, the Father, the Son, and the

862
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:14,440
Holy Spirit and apply that to Neoplatonism. You can sort

863
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,960
of project these things onto it, and if anything, it's

864
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,360
at least an interesting thought experiment, you know, it gives

865
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,280
you at least something to chew on. And that's absolutely

866
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:33,360
what was going on and again in the Renaissance, Platonism was,

867
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,079
you know, giving a lot of a lot of these

868
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:46,519
philosophical ideas don't contradict anything biblically biblically or contradict anything Christianity,

869
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:52,320
and therefore could coexist with it. People like Kant would

870
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:58,079
use platonic ideas to offer proofs of God, you know,

871
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:04,519
things like a cons transcendental argument for God. You often

872
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:12,280
hear it called tag a thag that's a argument formal

873
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:19,719
like logical argument, where he offers it's a platonic cosmology,

874
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:25,760
which he says necessitates a divine mind, necessitates a God.

875
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,000
So he says, you know, we have these things that

876
00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:36,599
are categories or numbers or ideas which are transcendental, meaning

877
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,960
they are not like we said earlier. You know, the

878
00:58:41,039 --> 00:58:44,000
number one is not out here in the world. It's

879
00:58:44,039 --> 00:58:47,559
an idea. It's a pure principle. And when you see

880
00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:52,039
one of something, it's participating in that idea in that

881
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:57,760
form you know of oneness and you know, and there's

882
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,880
various versions of this. But these categories, these things which

883
00:59:02,159 --> 00:59:06,559
unify things. You know, when you say, oh, that's you know,

884
00:59:06,639 --> 00:59:08,920
that's a horse, and that's a horse, and that's a horse,

885
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,440
but none of them are the same horse. But there's

886
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:17,039
something there that unifies all horses, you know. And these

887
00:59:17,559 --> 00:59:21,480
these transcendentals, these categories by which we view the world,

888
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:27,480
have to be held in some mind. You know. They

889
00:59:27,519 --> 00:59:31,559
can't just be things we extract out of nature, you know,

890
00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:34,039
because it's it's the other way around. Nature is sort

891
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:38,159
of being extracted out of them, and they we sort

892
00:59:38,199 --> 00:59:43,039
of presuppose these categories or these transcendental ideas in our

893
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:47,559
experience of the world. And therefore there has to be

894
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:52,880
some kind of God or divine mind that these things,

895
00:59:53,440 --> 01:00:00,440
these ideas, concepts, categories are all held in metaphorically, and

896
01:00:00,519 --> 01:00:04,639
so he basically says that proves the existence of God.

897
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,440
So even in the seventh Account was a Christian too,

898
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,559
But even in the seventeen hundreds you have people using

899
01:00:12,599 --> 01:00:15,679
Platonism ideas that are almost two thousand years old or

900
01:00:15,719 --> 01:00:22,840
more for their own Christian ideas or their own philosophical ideas. Yeah,

901
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:27,760
so Christianity is absolutely a platonic religion.

902
01:00:27,639 --> 01:00:30,199
Speaker 4: And it would make sense that they would take something

903
01:00:30,239 --> 01:00:32,320
and kind of right. And on the mysteries, it's where

904
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,079
they talk about like theorgy and like rituals and all

905
01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:39,519
that stuff and calling upon something higher, right to enact

906
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:43,239
to change in reality, and that's prayer like that, and

907
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,199
how you're saying, you put it really really well, where

908
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,119
you know they're focused on elevating the mind, you know,

909
01:00:52,199 --> 01:00:57,639
to transcend the mind. Then once you transcend, you don't

910
01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:00,400
stay up there. You come back and you see the

911
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,840
world with new eyes. Right, you're enlightened if you were

912
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,039
at the enlightened ones, And it would make sense.

913
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:12,639
Speaker 6: That not only are you enlightened, but the world is enlightened,

914
01:01:12,719 --> 01:01:16,280
meaning the world you look at is now vibrant, it's

915
01:01:16,639 --> 01:01:17,760
radiating with something.

916
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 4: You came out of Plato's cave and now you see

917
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,880
everything behind your life. Yeah, it would make sense that

918
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,719
they would take that and they would invert it to

919
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,480
where you're saying. You know, the Orthodox Church, they they

920
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:34,360
practice I think like more ritual, more meditation, they practice that,

921
01:01:34,519 --> 01:01:36,679
right like that. I know maybe one or two people

922
01:01:36,679 --> 01:01:40,519
who are or Greek Orthodox or whatever it's called. And

923
01:01:40,519 --> 01:01:43,360
and that would make sense that they would get away

924
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,480
from that because you don't you don't want people who

925
01:01:47,519 --> 01:01:51,880
are gonna be thinking. You're gonna want people who are

926
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,000
gonna do what they're told. So that's where you get

927
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,960
today's religion where I always say, you know, fuck religion,

928
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,599
it's I believe in God. Where today's religion is a

929
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:07,239
broken experience. So it's like, hey, we'll hold the gates

930
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,880
down for you. Go out there, do your thing, and

931
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,920
we'll let you know when the pope or whoever it

932
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,320
is talks to God and we'll let you know what

933
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:14,880
he says.

934
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 6: You know, I think Carl Jung said that organized religion

935
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,000
is there to protect against the religious experience.

936
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:24,599
Speaker 4: Yeah.

937
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:30,159
Speaker 6: I always like that, you know, absolutely audience religion it's.

938
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 4: A business like that that in reality, that's what it is.

939
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,480
It's a business. And you know, you've turned my house

940
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,719
into adenner thieves where you know, it's it's they're just.

941
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:44,039
Speaker 1: Every year thousands of people go to their very first concert.

942
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,000
Our boosted signal at large events means they can always

943
01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:49,599
call a taxi to get home.

944
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:52,719
Speaker 4: Mom, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was grand.

945
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 3: Do you think you could pick me up?

946
01:02:55,119 --> 01:02:58,159
Speaker 1: Every connection counts, which is why Arland can count on

947
01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:01,440
our network Votaphone. Together we can.

948
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,159
Speaker 2: Subject to coverage availability limitations in terms ofpply see Votaphone

949
01:03:07,199 --> 01:03:08,639
dot Ie Forward slash turns.

950
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 3: Every business needs leaders, those with the vision to see

951
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,840
where their business is going, those who make big decisions

952
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:20,039
when they matter most. At ESB's Smart Energy Services, we

953
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:23,400
work with business leaders every day because we lead the

954
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,039
way in delivering clean energy solutions at scale. So whether

955
01:03:27,079 --> 01:03:29,800
you want to reduce your energy costs or reach your

956
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,920
sustainability goals, we can lead your business to a clean

957
01:03:33,039 --> 01:03:36,800
energy future. Find out more at ESB dot ie forward

958
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,480
Slash Smart Energy.

959
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 4: Here live get a load of this.

960
01:03:40,559 --> 01:03:44,159
Speaker 1: You can get an Apache pizza and decide for cheaper

961
01:03:44,199 --> 01:03:45,000
than just the pizza.

962
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 4: That's basic mats like common sense. Some might say that's

963
01:03:48,519 --> 01:03:49,199
a no brainer.

964
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,559
Speaker 8: The no brainer deal from Apache one medium pizza and

965
01:03:52,639 --> 01:03:56,079
any side just forty ninety nine, or make it large

966
01:03:56,119 --> 01:04:01,559
for another two euro ts and c supply wet pizza.

967
01:04:01,679 --> 01:04:03,599
Speaker 4: I just want to remind everyone make sure to check

968
01:04:03,639 --> 01:04:07,519
out the show on Patreon, Patreon dot com Slash the

969
01:04:07,719 --> 01:04:11,360
one on one podcast. I constantly get emails. Oh only

970
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,960
one episode a week, Yeah, one episode a week for

971
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,480
the public, but for as little as five bucks a month,

972
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,639
you can get up to two, sometimes three, sometimes one

973
01:04:21,679 --> 01:04:25,960
episode per day on the Patreon as well as on

974
01:04:26,239 --> 01:04:29,280
the YouTube channel as a member for as little as

975
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,199
five dollars, and there's also on the Patreon over two

976
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,400
hundred and fifty episodes only found on there. There's an

977
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,199
extensive backlog of episodes, so check that out if for

978
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,360
those interested. For those asking, make sure to follow the

979
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:48,079
show on YouTube Juana Juan Podcast also Wanajuan Media. I

980
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,360
am going live every Tuesday on there streaming. I also

981
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,360
go live on Twitch dot tv slash one on Juan Podcast,

982
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,039
so make sure to check me out on there Tuesday's

983
01:04:59,159 --> 01:05:02,880
six pm and make sure to get your copy of

984
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,840
the Occult to Monday how monkeylus owner's manual All that

985
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:09,519
good stuff at tj ojp dot com. Can pick up

986
01:05:09,519 --> 01:05:13,000
your copies there or go over to the cofi. I'm

987
01:05:13,039 --> 01:05:17,679
on Facebook, Twitch, kick Rumble, all that good stuff you

988
01:05:17,719 --> 01:05:20,480
know where to find it and enjoy this episode turning

989
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:23,760
money out and back then I was like, no, no, no,

990
01:05:24,519 --> 01:05:29,000
think bro sit there and analyze and think. And it

991
01:05:29,039 --> 01:05:32,440
seems like more people today don't think. I mean, that's

992
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,320
what you see a majority.

993
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,679
Speaker 6: Of Honestly, that was a big reason why we published

994
01:05:36,719 --> 01:05:40,320
the book. Because I own a metaphysical bookstore. I'm on

995
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,159
the front lines. I'm talking to people. I'm selling people

996
01:05:43,159 --> 01:05:50,000
books that are spiritual, that are philosophical, and I see

997
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,239
a lot of people and their truth seekers. Is nothing

998
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,719
wrong with them or anything. But a lot of the

999
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:01,320
New Age sought to, you know, starting in the sixties,

1000
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:10,599
sought to overcorrect for intellectualism. They thought religion had become

1001
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:17,920
too intellectualized and too far from the religious experience, excuse me.

1002
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,039
And they sought to bring spirituality back to the heart,

1003
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:27,400
back to direct experience, and all. That's fine, there's nothing

1004
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:29,960
wrong with that, but I think that it went too far.

1005
01:06:30,679 --> 01:06:33,519
I think that in a lot of the New Age

1006
01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:38,840
spirituality of today, it's very dumb down. It's very animalistic,

1007
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,519
so to speak, where it's like, you know, it's just

1008
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:48,159
love and live from the heart and all the stuff,

1009
01:06:48,199 --> 01:06:50,400
and it's like, oh, yeah, that stuff's great. Of course,

1010
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:54,079
that's part of spirituality. But that's only half the story.

1011
01:06:54,719 --> 01:06:58,199
You know. The gnosis or the knowledge, the intellect is

1012
01:06:58,239 --> 01:07:01,119
the whole, is the other half. And you, like you said,

1013
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,039
you have to think things through. You have to come

1014
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:04,800
to an understanding of the world.

1015
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:05,079
Speaker 2: You know.

1016
01:07:05,199 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 6: The idea of raising consciousness or expanding consciousness literally means

1017
01:07:12,039 --> 01:07:19,280
expanding your awareness. It means knowing more, you know, experiencing more,

1018
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,559
but in a way where you understand it, you know,

1019
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,679
And I yeah that, And that was a big part

1020
01:07:25,679 --> 01:07:28,840
of the appeal of Platonism to me. The reason we

1021
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,719
publish it was I read it and I thought, wow, like,

1022
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,559
this is an education. If you read Plato, you read Platinists,

1023
01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:39,360
you read the Amblicus, like these people teach you how

1024
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:44,239
to think. Not on the Republic, I mean, yeah, right,

1025
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:49,800
just the Republic exactly, or just one Platonic dialogue, you know,

1026
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,519
and you start realizing, holy shit, like I make a

1027
01:07:52,599 --> 01:07:55,800
lot of assumptions in my day to day. You know.

1028
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,280
When you say soul and I say soul, we're just

1029
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:03,079
assuming you mean the same thing. When you say justice

1030
01:08:03,199 --> 01:08:05,880
and I say justice, or you say virtue and I

1031
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:10,199
say virtue or whatever it is. Or you say evil

1032
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:12,679
and I say evil. You know, we we're making these

1033
01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:16,319
assumptions that we're on the same page. The Platonists make

1034
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:22,520
no such assumptions. They define everything. They recognize that philosophy

1035
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,279
is a language game. And you know, therefore, if it's

1036
01:08:27,319 --> 01:08:32,199
a language game, then the necessary conclusion is to get

1037
01:08:32,199 --> 01:08:37,520
your terms straight, get your vocabulary defined. Well, you know,

1038
01:08:38,079 --> 01:08:42,359
before they even hop on a podcast. I'm obviously joking.

1039
01:08:42,079 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 4: They were doing the podcast, or they even.

1040
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,319
Speaker 6: Hop on to a talk, they're like, okay, what do

1041
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:49,960
you mean by soul? Before we even get started, you know,

1042
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,760
forget about where the soul comes from or whatever, Like,

1043
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,079
what the hell do you even mean by soul? And

1044
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,399
those are the questions that nobody in the New Age

1045
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:00,920
is asking.

1046
01:09:01,239 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 4: So you're telling me, you're telling me that the Ashtar

1047
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:10,159
galactic command is not beaming down consciousness, expanding blue rays,

1048
01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:14,359
project bluebeam to expand our consciousness. Bro, the White Brotherhood

1049
01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:17,319
isn't to to hold accountable for this. Is that what

1050
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:17,760
you're saying.

1051
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,119
Speaker 6: That's exactly what I'm saying. It does take a little thinking,

1052
01:09:25,159 --> 01:09:27,840
you know. Not Again, it's not the whole story. The

1053
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,199
intellect is not the whole story either. You still have

1054
01:09:30,239 --> 01:09:32,800
to be a good person. You still have to want

1055
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,359
direct experience and live from the heart, all those sorts

1056
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:38,079
of things that I think the New Age did a

1057
01:09:38,079 --> 01:09:42,760
good job of popularizing. I think that's all very good,

1058
01:09:43,119 --> 01:09:45,840
but I think we over corrected. We went a little

1059
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,840
too far, and we need to get back to center

1060
01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:50,680
with intellect. People need to be reading play there people

1061
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,279
need to be reading philosophy. They need to you know, fine,

1062
01:09:54,319 --> 01:09:57,239
you want to manifest, you want to yoga, whatever, that's great,

1063
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,279
but like, let's also go read.

1064
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,119
Speaker 4: I want to touch the rocks and the crystals.

1065
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 6: And to read the greatest minds that have ever been there.

1066
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:10,840
And you will realize really quickly that your language is

1067
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,640
so vague. That's like one of the biggest realizations. Like

1068
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,119
if you read their public and they're talking about what

1069
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,119
justice is, what it means to be just or fair,

1070
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,720
I mean, it's like fifty pages of just back and forth,

1071
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,359
you know, Oh, well, is it just if somebody more powerful,

1072
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,159
you know, overpowers somebody you know, is that the the

1073
01:10:36,239 --> 01:10:38,800
natural order? And therefore it's just you know, and on

1074
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:40,840
and on and on about why I know, and it's not.

1075
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,119
Speaker 4: Just well, well it was Crawley. He'd be like, sometimes

1076
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:50,319
other people's will no means yes right right.

1077
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:55,279
Speaker 6: Well, And I think that you know, reading these people

1078
01:10:55,359 --> 01:11:01,800
getting a metaphysical education and education on logic, on on cosmology,

1079
01:11:02,039 --> 01:11:07,399
on how to analyze forms and ideas, and just a

1080
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:12,880
general philosophical education prepares you to It gives you an

1081
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,600
element of discernment. It sharpens your mind for when you're

1082
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,000
going into Oh, I'm reading Crow or I'm reading the Upanishads,

1083
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:22,880
or I'm reading whatever. Francis big and doesn't matter. You

1084
01:11:23,039 --> 01:11:29,560
now have a new found faculty for analysis, for thinking,

1085
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:35,520
you know, real contemplative thinking where you honestly you can

1086
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,720
throw stuff out really fast. You can read stuff and

1087
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,399
be like, Okay, this guy has doesn't know anything about metaphysics,

1088
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:44,039
doesn't know anything about philosophy, like this is all like

1089
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,560
low hanging fruit stuff, and just toss it. You know,

1090
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,399
you can can really quickly start to identify people who

1091
01:11:52,399 --> 01:11:56,399
can think and people who are grifters or pandering or

1092
01:11:56,439 --> 01:12:00,239
trying to sell something or just like wacky, and you

1093
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:04,279
start to collect thinkers, you know, people who are really sharp.

1094
01:12:05,039 --> 01:12:07,800
At least that's what I find, and.

1095
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 4: It would make sense as to why mathematics is so

1096
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:16,680
important to them. You mentioned earlier beauty symmetry, asymmetry, and

1097
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,439
you know, part of the whole Platonic thing was learning

1098
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,399
about math, wasn't it. Who's whose academy? Was that at

1099
01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:25,000
the top of it you needed.

1100
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:31,680
Speaker 6: To yeah about geometry. I forget the exact phrase, but

1101
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:32,479
something like.

1102
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 4: Let no one ignorant of geometry enter here.

1103
01:12:36,399 --> 01:12:42,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know, they were obsessed and this kind

1104
01:12:42,359 --> 01:12:45,399
of comes back to it. Well, we said earlier they

1105
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:51,159
were obsessed with the geometry because there's a few things there,

1106
01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:58,319
but primarily because geometry offers perfect definitions. It's like I

1107
01:12:58,359 --> 01:13:02,239
said earlier, the Platonists or obsessed with definitions. They want

1108
01:13:02,319 --> 01:13:06,880
to know what is this thing? You know, what is virtue?

1109
01:13:07,079 --> 01:13:09,920
What is you know, the soul? What is the mind?

1110
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,880
Blah blah blah whatever. They want to know what things

1111
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:14,920
are and be able to put it into a sentence.

1112
01:13:15,039 --> 01:13:18,479
This is what it is, and in geometry you can

1113
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,760
do that better than in any other science or any

1114
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:26,800
other art. A triangle is a three sided object that

1115
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,560
adds up where the three angles add up to one

1116
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:35,159
hundred eighty degrees period. Always doesn't matter what the angles

1117
01:13:35,159 --> 01:13:38,119
are or what the side lengths are. It is has

1118
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:40,560
three sides, three angles to add up to one hundred

1119
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,560
eighty degrees period. There are my.

1120
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 4: Dogs, but you're familiar.

1121
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:50,239
Speaker 6: Yes, my familiar is bothering me. And that is why

1122
01:13:50,239 --> 01:13:54,359
they loved it. That's that's like the ultimate for Platonists.

1123
01:13:54,399 --> 01:13:57,560
They're like, oh, oh, mama, you know I can define

1124
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:01,359
something in one sentence and it's exact, it never changes.

1125
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:05,479
That's what a triangle is and always will be. And

1126
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:09,119
that was the ultimate for them because they said, what

1127
01:14:09,239 --> 01:14:12,920
if we can you know, what if our idea of

1128
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:17,000
a soul was as exactly defined as a triangle is.

1129
01:14:18,119 --> 01:14:20,840
And so that's why it was this found it was

1130
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,239
of such a high level of order or of being

1131
01:14:25,079 --> 01:14:32,000
things like geometry, because it had this exactness this you know,

1132
01:14:32,319 --> 01:14:36,960
they it participates in eternity geometry because these things are unchanging,

1133
01:14:37,239 --> 01:14:41,680
they're sort of laws of nature or a being. And

1134
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,000
they were sort of a glimpse in the divine mind too.

1135
01:14:44,119 --> 01:14:47,279
And you know there's things like proportion and mikuld go

1136
01:14:47,399 --> 01:14:48,359
and geometry forever.

1137
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 4: And if we go even further back, Pythagoras, right, who

1138
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:59,920
influence played. Oh, it's like the Pythagoreans saw divinity as number,

1139
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,760
right all his number like that, That to me is

1140
01:15:05,199 --> 01:15:09,760
the Pathagorians are really interesting to me because in my opinion,

1141
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:14,960
I think that they believe that it would contribute to

1142
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,479
the cosmology of us being in a sort of simulation,

1143
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:19,359
which if you really go back to like for example,

1144
01:15:19,399 --> 01:15:22,239
like the Gnostics and all that, that's what it was, like,

1145
01:15:22,319 --> 01:15:25,239
this false reality that the demi Urge or the demi Urgo,

1146
01:15:25,319 --> 01:15:29,800
so whatever they called him, cast it upon everyone in reality,

1147
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,439
and you're partaking in this, and you have to learn

1148
01:15:33,319 --> 01:15:36,199
how to break free from that. You have to learn

1149
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:41,159
to transcend the AONs to go to be reunited with

1150
01:15:41,239 --> 01:15:41,920
the one. Right.

1151
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, the Platinus hated the Gnostics, by the way, did

1152
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:46,840
he really?

1153
01:15:47,279 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1154
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 6: The Neoplatonists and the Gnostics, but heads big time. They

1155
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:57,239
existed at the same time in roughly the same areas.

1156
01:15:58,039 --> 01:16:01,159
You had Gnostic sex or cults or whatever you want

1157
01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:07,199
to call them in North Africa, in Egypt, in Alexandria,

1158
01:16:07,239 --> 01:16:11,800
at the same time as the Neoplatonists movement with Platinas

1159
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,800
and Poor Frey and Platinus and poor Free both. If

1160
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,359
you look this up, there's one of them is in

1161
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:22,000
Monad have essays against the Gnostics literally titled against the

1162
01:16:22,039 --> 01:16:25,439
Gnostics or on the you know, on the Gnostics.

1163
01:16:25,199 --> 01:16:26,520
Speaker 4: In this one in the Monad.

1164
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's one in Monad.

1165
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 4: That one.

1166
01:16:29,279 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's on the Gnostic hypostasies Shaze final with page

1167
01:16:37,039 --> 01:16:40,439
is on on.

1168
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 4: Into the three hypostases, the ranks as the principal Oh,

1169
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,279
the Gnostic Yeah, here we go, and that which is

1170
01:16:48,319 --> 01:16:50,119
beyond them two seventy eight.

1171
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 6: Right, so yeah, pH two seventy eight on the Gnostic

1172
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,159
hypostases and that which is beyond them. He also has

1173
01:16:56,199 --> 01:17:00,319
one that's called against the Gnostics, where he they were

1174
01:17:00,319 --> 01:17:03,840
trying to debunk the Gnostic movement, saying, look, this is

1175
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:09,439
a low level philosophy, like this demiired dualism stuff.

1176
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,560
Speaker 4: This is the philosophy we have at home.

1177
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, the philosophy at home is nacissism

1178
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:21,760
and neoplatonism just thought, in my opinion, is just like

1179
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:26,960
a way more complete system, whereas nacissism's like fragments of stuff,

1180
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:30,199
and there's really interesting ideas in there, there's things to

1181
01:17:30,199 --> 01:17:37,199
be gained. But in the platonist's mind, narcissism was totally

1182
01:17:37,239 --> 01:17:41,399
ridiculous because it was dualistic. And to them, everything is

1183
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:44,720
ultimately unified into a one. There has to be an

1184
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,600
end and absolute at the top or the bottom or

1185
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:52,560
wherever the hell it is, the center from which everything

1186
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,119
emanates from or is created by. And so if everything

1187
01:17:56,199 --> 01:18:00,560
is ultimately reconciled into one which is good, good, and

1188
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,840
unified and all of these things, then things like a

1189
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,079
demiurge are just silly, you know. To them, they thought

1190
01:18:09,079 --> 01:18:13,600
that the material world, yes, was not good, but it

1191
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:18,119
was still participating and there came from the source, from

1192
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:22,720
the One, and therefore was good. Ultimately, it was just

1193
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:27,119
less good than a higher realm. And so they thought

1194
01:18:27,119 --> 01:18:31,359
that the material world was very far from source from

1195
01:18:31,359 --> 01:18:35,920
the One and therefore had its issues. You know, it's

1196
01:18:36,079 --> 01:18:39,399
traps and decaying and all that kind of stuff, but

1197
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:44,079
it was not actually evil, which I find to be

1198
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:49,239
probably closer to the truth. The Gnostics are definitely overreacting,

1199
01:18:49,279 --> 01:18:50,159
I would say.

1200
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:53,279
Speaker 4: And.

1201
01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:58,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, they just thought that. You know, basically, there's no

1202
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,840
such thing as the world split in two. At the top.

1203
01:19:02,159 --> 01:19:05,359
It's always unified into one. It's always reconciled into one.

1204
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,760
And if there's two opposites, like the spiritual material or

1205
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:15,359
the demiurge and God, at some level, at the highest

1206
01:19:15,399 --> 01:19:20,479
possible level, it's always reconciled. The two opposites reconcile into

1207
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,960
one that contains them both. And so if you're not

1208
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:28,720
looking at things from that ultimate perspective, then you're still

1209
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,119
just like lost in a sort of mental trap. You know,

1210
01:19:32,159 --> 01:19:35,239
you haven't climbed the lateral to the top, so to speak.

1211
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:37,520
So they kind of laughed off Nasissm. They're like, this

1212
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,319
is just this is just like a bad philosophical education.

1213
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, but again, like I said, for the for the

1214
01:19:45,279 --> 01:19:47,520
people who don't want to think and just want everything

1215
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,119
kind of sort of hand it to them, it would

1216
01:19:49,159 --> 01:19:55,000
make sense where it's like, Okay, I'm here because I

1217
01:19:55,079 --> 01:19:59,399
have to participate in this trial of sorts, you know

1218
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:05,359
that is me constructed by this demon, right, and as

1219
01:20:05,359 --> 01:20:09,079
long as I can do you know, the right steps,

1220
01:20:09,199 --> 01:20:11,439
I can transcend and then it's all over and now

1221
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:14,720
I fail, then you come back again. So I got

1222
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:19,079
to make sure. And where do the Platonists and write

1223
01:20:19,079 --> 01:20:22,479
the Neoplatinists and everything, where do they stand as far

1224
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,600
as like the mysteries, the Lucinian mysteries and all that.

1225
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,680
Did they participate in all that? Like? Did they?

1226
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:33,159
Speaker 6: Yeah? Absolutely? So there's two things there. One you mentioned reincarnation.

1227
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:39,079
The Platonists absolutely and Neoplatonists absolutely believed in reincarnation. In

1228
01:20:39,359 --> 01:20:45,159
Greek philosophy, it's referred to as metum psychosis, that's like

1229
01:20:45,199 --> 01:20:49,399
the Greek term for reincarnation. They absolutely believed in souls

1230
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:54,520
coming back into human bodies. They did not think a

1231
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:55,880
soul could be split up and.

1232
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 4: An animals, right, that's why they were vegetarian.

1233
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 6: It's a big part of it. Yeah, they believe that

1234
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:04,520
they were conscious agents, and that they did have souls.

1235
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,439
By the way, that the word animal means has a soul,

1236
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:14,800
anima like anima mundi world soul. Anima is soul the word. So, yeah,

1237
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:16,920
they thought animals had had.

1238
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,520
Speaker 4: Who do you think your dog was in a past life?

1239
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 6: Who my dog was a mass life? That's a good question.

1240
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,520
Speaker 4: Have you ever called out a name to see if

1241
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:27,600
she responds like.

1242
01:21:28,199 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 6: No, definitely, really, I don't know, maybe some kind of

1243
01:21:32,039 --> 01:21:33,159
mime or comedian.

1244
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, pugs are funny dogs already though, like they're like dogs. Yeah.

1245
01:21:39,039 --> 01:21:44,399
Speaker 6: But so they absolutely had reincarnation and they absolutely were

1246
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:51,479
participating in the mysteries. Plato went to Lusis, at least

1247
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:55,920
from what we know, Emperor Julian, who was a Neoplatonists

1248
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,600
emperor Roman emperor, he went to Lusis, so we know that,

1249
01:22:02,039 --> 01:22:06,239
and others. A lot of them performed orphic rites or

1250
01:22:06,319 --> 01:22:10,880
other mysteries. They absolutely were involved in these things. And

1251
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,399
then finally when you get the Amblicusts, who I've just

1252
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,439
called the bad boy because he's the most occult. He

1253
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:20,720
is a magician. He is not a meditator, a contemplator

1254
01:22:21,199 --> 01:22:23,039
like Platinists and Porphyry and the rest.

1255
01:22:23,079 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 4: Let's dots and ceremonies.

1256
01:22:25,039 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 6: Baby is as sharp as they come, but he is

1257
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:33,319
a ceremonial magician. He calls it theurgy. When Patina says theogy,

1258
01:22:33,399 --> 01:22:38,159
he means contemplation. He means what I described earlier, dialectical

1259
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:42,760
process of enlightenment. When the Amblicus says theorgy, he means

1260
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,920
drawing the circle, you know, putting out the proper stones

1261
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:52,600
to the proper planets, the sense, the aromas, whatever it is.

1262
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:57,720
He's performing sympathetic magic. That's the implicats. That's why I

1263
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:00,479
said he's the bad boy. He becomes full with material

1264
01:23:01,319 --> 01:23:08,399
materialist and when you adopt the materialist paradigm, you are

1265
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:14,640
left with the idea that spirituality or enlightenment is must

1266
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:19,560
go through matter. You know, if the world is made

1267
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,640
of matter, well then you have to sort of align

1268
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:27,159
it in harmonious ways to achieve higher orders of things,

1269
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:32,079
you know, to achieve your goals, or to be in harmony.

1270
01:23:33,039 --> 01:23:35,479
Gregory Shaw, who read a really good book called Theogy

1271
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:39,840
and the Soul, highly recommend people read that on the Amblicus,

1272
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:49,439
he describes it as in the platonic or plutonium tradition,

1273
01:23:50,279 --> 01:23:58,359
the person is trying to how would I describe this,

1274
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:04,800
They're trying to to put themselves into harmony, like in

1275
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:09,720
their own mind, Like through this contemplation, they're trying to

1276
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:14,640
create harmony or align themselves with their true self harmony

1277
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:19,720
in their own mind. Whereas in the the Amblican tradition,

1278
01:24:20,399 --> 01:24:26,680
the material of tradition, the heat. The amblicus is trying

1279
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,760
to put himself in harmony with the world, with the cosmos,

1280
01:24:31,239 --> 01:24:35,399
and so that's how he sees success or a higher

1281
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:39,680
order of being being achieved, is putting himself into harmony

1282
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:43,279
and sort of knowing his place and connecting himself to

1283
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:46,800
the world in the best way possible. And that leads

1284
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,760
to magic. It's ceremonial magic, they call it theorgy. It's

1285
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:55,720
sympathetic magic, it's you know, it's geomancy, it's astrology, it's divination,

1286
01:24:57,079 --> 01:24:59,640
it's all of the above, like you said, invocations of

1287
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,920
dan means and things of the like. So the Amblicus

1288
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:08,920
is absolutely participating in all the mysteries. He wants it all.

1289
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:11,640
The Amblicus thought. You know, his book is called on

1290
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:17,319
the Mysteries literally, and he talks about Eleusis by the

1291
01:25:17,319 --> 01:25:20,760
Way and Bachic writes and things like that. So you

1292
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:24,880
can read the Amblicus's thoughts on Leusis translated by Thomas Taylor.

1293
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:28,119
I mean, this is as good as he gets. And

1294
01:25:28,279 --> 01:25:32,359
he the reason that he wrote on the mysteries, and

1295
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:36,680
he wrote about a lot of different mysteries, including like

1296
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:38,479
Toureaux defination not literally.

1297
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,359
Speaker 4: Do you think he was spilling the beans like for

1298
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:41,119
his time.

1299
01:25:42,039 --> 01:25:45,640
Speaker 6: Yes, but I'll get to that. What the reason that

1300
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:49,960
he wrote about mysteries instead of just like, oh, what

1301
01:25:50,119 --> 01:25:54,159
is justice or whatever? What is virtue? Is he believed

1302
01:25:54,239 --> 01:26:00,279
that the Platonic cosmology was most evident when the ail

1303
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:04,520
was thinnest, so during these mysteries or during the study

1304
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,880
of astrology or whatever, all these weird occult things. He

1305
01:26:09,039 --> 01:26:13,720
believed that was when you could see the Platonic cosmology

1306
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:19,479
at play and in your just day to day life. Yeah,

1307
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:21,279
I mean you could have an understanding of that's how

1308
01:26:21,319 --> 01:26:23,560
things work. But he believed that you know, if you

1309
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,119
were at a lesis, or you were in a seance,

1310
01:26:27,359 --> 01:26:32,199
or you were you know, performing magic for something for

1311
01:26:32,319 --> 01:26:34,960
some kind of goal that that's when you can see

1312
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:38,920
how things work. And so that he made it a

1313
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,880
study and wrote a book called On the Mysteries and

1314
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:48,399
the outlines. You know that how all these things work basically,

1315
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:52,880
you know how things come into being, how you know

1316
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:00,439
things like tarot cards can have, can be imbued with intellect,

1317
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:04,560
you know for a brief moment, things like that. He

1318
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:08,840
details how that all works in a platonic worldview, and

1319
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:14,279
it's fascinating, absolutely a huge, huge deal. Like you talked

1320
01:27:14,279 --> 01:27:17,199
about spilling the beans. When the Amlicus writes these books

1321
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:23,279
On the Mysteries becomes a must read for everyone sense

1322
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:28,079
that's interested in the esoteric, because it's one of the

1323
01:27:28,079 --> 01:27:30,239
only books that really tries to say what the hell

1324
01:27:30,319 --> 01:27:34,159
is going on here, like from philosophical point of view

1325
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:38,760
or cosmology and all these weird things. And he lays

1326
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:45,479
the groundwork for ceremonial magic, for alchemy up until today.

1327
01:27:46,199 --> 01:27:50,560
He lays the foundation of why do these things? You know,

1328
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:54,000
if you don't believe that matter is divine, or that sympathy,

1329
01:27:54,079 --> 01:27:58,880
that sympathy between things between a planet and a color

1330
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:03,560
or whatever, that that's important, then you wouldn't be doing

1331
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:07,279
alchemy or ceremonial magic or anything like that. And up

1332
01:28:07,399 --> 01:28:10,880
until him, we didn't have anyone saying, yeah, it was

1333
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:14,119
being taught in mystery schools for sure, and it was

1334
01:28:14,279 --> 01:28:17,000
esoteric knowledge, but we didn't have anyone actually coming out

1335
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:22,680
and saying, this is why, this is how sympathetic magic works.

1336
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:24,640
You know, the reason that a planet and a certain

1337
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:29,199
color are connected is because of this in our world,

1338
01:28:29,279 --> 01:28:33,479
in our cosmology, this is how it works, and that

1339
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,600
is fascinating, and that is you know, one of the

1340
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:42,239
essential texts for all of occultism, all the Western esoteric

1341
01:28:42,279 --> 01:28:49,319
tradition is Platonic in that view, more of a materialist Platonism.

1342
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:53,800
But you know a lot of people do call the

1343
01:28:53,840 --> 01:29:00,239
Neoplatonists the secret teachings of Plato. So there's two idea.

1344
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:05,479
Some people think the Neoplatonists took the Thagoras and Plato

1345
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:10,000
and Aristotle and they added on, and what they added

1346
01:29:10,039 --> 01:29:14,039
on happened to be a lot of mystical stuff. And

1347
01:29:14,239 --> 01:29:17,439
you know, the more scholarly people think, well, you know,

1348
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:20,000
that's because they were in Egypt and they have these

1349
01:29:20,039 --> 01:29:24,159
influences coming from the Middle East, maybe from India, from

1350
01:29:24,199 --> 01:29:28,640
Egypt itself, and you know, Rome is very cosmopolitan. There's

1351
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:32,800
all these ideas flowing around, especially in Alexandria. And so

1352
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:36,279
they got Platonism, the traditional Platonism, and then added a

1353
01:29:36,279 --> 01:29:41,359
lot of mystical stuff. That's one school. The other school

1354
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:47,880
believes that these teachings were not new, that the Neoplatonists

1355
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,520
were not coming up with anything. They were simply revealing

1356
01:29:53,079 --> 01:29:57,479
what were previously in a time of Plato, the secret teachings, the.

1357
01:29:57,279 --> 01:29:59,640
Speaker 4: Ralpha dogmata, the unwritten doctrines.

1358
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,199
Speaker 6: Exactly these were this, these spoken secret teachings of the

1359
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:08,520
Platonic academies of Pythagoras, even all the way back to Pythagoras,

1360
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:13,640
the Pythagoraean brotherhoods. That these were what we're taught esoterically

1361
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:18,520
or in the occult, and that they were to the initiates,

1362
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:21,199
and they were not revealed to the public or to

1363
01:30:21,359 --> 01:30:25,520
just philosophers or whatever, and that the Neoplatonists simply wrote

1364
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:30,039
them down and conveyed the secret teachings of Plato. I

1365
01:30:30,279 --> 01:30:33,800
tend to believe that's probably the case, that these were

1366
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:37,119
not new new ideas, that it's not like Plato didn't

1367
01:30:37,159 --> 01:30:40,880
know about you know this or that, But simply that

1368
01:30:41,239 --> 01:30:43,880
we didn't know that Plato knew about that, yeah, which

1369
01:30:44,039 --> 01:30:47,399
wasn't written down, it wasn't preserved, it wasn't exoteric.

1370
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's where you get, you said, right, aligning

1371
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:57,560
yourself with the material and that gnosis and this higher

1372
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:01,159
sense of being is linked to the material, and that's it.

1373
01:31:01,319 --> 01:31:04,680
Like Hermestris, Magestus and all these guys came out. They

1374
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,760
were like, okay, alchemy, we're gonna do the work in

1375
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:13,279
purifying material to its nice form of being. So they

1376
01:31:13,319 --> 01:31:17,199
took that's amazing because they took something that because if

1377
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:19,479
you think about it's almost like this evolution. That's why

1378
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:22,720
I love history, like reading and learning about it because

1379
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:26,479
you see the evolution of it. So these alchemists took

1380
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:31,720
this how you're saying, this philosophical thought experiment s type

1381
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,640
of ideas and they brought it down into a lab

1382
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:38,000
where they could do all of that. Yeah, but tinkering

1383
01:31:38,039 --> 01:31:42,079
with it like here, stare into this vessel for x

1384
01:31:42,119 --> 01:31:44,640
amount of time and you might start to halloten it

1385
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,159
is that a dragon? And then they're forming all these

1386
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:52,359
different symbols that convey a higher meaning. But hey, we're

1387
01:31:52,399 --> 01:31:54,920
gonna we're also gonna keep the secret. So make sure

1388
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:59,039
that you do the signs how you're supposed to. All

1389
01:31:59,079 --> 01:32:01,119
the other guys in the group and in the club,

1390
01:32:01,119 --> 01:32:03,359
we're going to know what you're talking about. But for

1391
01:32:03,399 --> 01:32:07,319
those that can't have this knowledge's sacred knowledge, they're going

1392
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:10,079
to stay out sure, and they're going to think, well,

1393
01:32:10,079 --> 01:32:12,439
what beautiful art. And in reality they're telling you the

1394
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:16,279
secrets of reality, right, you know, drawn on this notebook

1395
01:32:16,359 --> 01:32:17,119
or whatever it is.

1396
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:28,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, they I guess with with Plato, you know, we

1397
01:32:28,319 --> 01:32:31,279
don't exactly know about how these things are written down.

1398
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:35,960
We don't have records about how who was writing it down,

1399
01:32:36,279 --> 01:32:39,359
or how it was preserved anything like that. There were

1400
01:32:39,399 --> 01:32:46,880
absolutely tons of Platonic materials that were older than Plato.

1401
01:32:47,359 --> 01:32:52,399
Like people suggest that the Parmenites is older than Plato.

1402
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:55,840
It's attributed as a work of Plato. But people suspect

1403
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:57,600
that some of these things are Pythagorea and they're from

1404
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:00,520
hundreds of years before Plato. And then we sent say

1405
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:04,600
that their by Plata. And so there's things that you know,

1406
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:07,159
probably weren't by him and are even older. And there's

1407
01:33:07,199 --> 01:33:12,960
things that we're lost, you know, or or were preserved esoterically,

1408
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:19,239
I mean, without a doubt. Yeah, it's I love this

1409
01:33:19,279 --> 01:33:21,520
stuff too, because I agree with you. You can see

1410
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:26,000
things unfold in history. You can see these ideas moving

1411
01:33:27,239 --> 01:33:33,960
across boundaries and inspiring things, and yeah, it's fascinating. I mean,

1412
01:33:35,199 --> 01:33:38,920
like I said, if you don't have a certain philosophy

1413
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,920
about life, or about spirituality or about you know, meaning,

1414
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:46,119
then you just aren't going to end up at alchemy.

1415
01:33:47,199 --> 01:33:49,079
You're not going that. You're gonna be like what do

1416
01:33:49,119 --> 01:33:50,960
you mean? You know, who cares about rock?

1417
01:33:51,039 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 4: Because you have to know, how you said earlier about

1418
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:55,520
like the translations, you have to know the context, and

1419
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:59,920
the context is very important. And that's why religion to me,

1420
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:03,119
right we're speaking of translations and how important they are.

1421
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:07,119
That's why a lot of religion to me is probably

1422
01:34:07,199 --> 01:34:11,199
bullshit because how do we truly know that, for example, right,

1423
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:17,479
King James didn't do something with a bacon and all

1424
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,680
these other guys, right, like the first Freemason or something

1425
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:22,880
or other, how do we how can we truly trust

1426
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:26,760
and people will go to like the end of the world, like, no,

1427
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:31,079
the King James is the word of God and it's like, so,

1428
01:34:31,159 --> 01:34:33,960
then what about the other copies that had to switch

1429
01:34:34,039 --> 01:34:37,199
things up because they didn't want to combat the copyright

1430
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:40,319
of the original. Is that also the word of God?

1431
01:34:40,319 --> 01:34:42,319
I mean it's still changed up a little bit, but

1432
01:34:43,239 --> 01:34:46,359
you know, and a lot of this stuff wasn't translated

1433
01:34:46,399 --> 01:34:49,279
to hundreds of years later, you know, That's one of

1434
01:34:49,279 --> 01:34:52,640
the things. And one time I heard you, I forgot

1435
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:54,880
what it was that you said where it kind of

1436
01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:56,760
felt it kind of fell in line with Philip K.

1437
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:59,840
Dick in a sort of way where a lot of

1438
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:02,079
the stuff that was like the Nagamadi and like the

1439
01:35:02,079 --> 01:35:05,720
Dead Sea Scrolls was stuff that these symbols that had

1440
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:11,239
already been translated before, and almost like finding the Nagamadi

1441
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:14,920
and releasing these things into the world kind of set

1442
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:19,239
forth this chain reaction that was already known in the

1443
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:22,800
esoteric and the occult. Right almost as if right, a

1444
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,920
lot of those texts are Gnostic and that it plays

1445
01:35:26,279 --> 01:35:28,319
en roll with Philip K. Dick or he's like, yeah,

1446
01:35:28,319 --> 01:35:31,039
the Gnostics, they were actually the Gnostics because they were

1447
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:39,039
they were infected with this intradimensional disease that needs needs

1448
01:35:39,079 --> 01:35:42,479
you to help it keep going, and then it uses you.

1449
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,800
And then when you look into like information at being

1450
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:49,000
a sort of you know, informational parasite where information and

1451
01:35:49,119 --> 01:35:53,960
language uses you to keep going, and you're a vessel

1452
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:59,079
for that said thing. What do you think that because

1453
01:35:59,199 --> 01:36:03,800
you're pretty passionate about conserving this sort of knowledge and

1454
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:07,199
it being lost to today's society. Because I'm sure you

1455
01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:09,840
could go to the superstore right now or any you know,

1456
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:13,600
supermarket or any Walmart and ask somebody about Plato and

1457
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:15,720
they probably don't even know who he is or never

1458
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:19,359
even interacted with any of his works. How where do

1459
01:36:19,399 --> 01:36:21,560
you see us in a thousand years dude, with Chad

1460
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:24,479
GPT and all this stuff. Do you think that we're

1461
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:27,640
going to go into a dark ages? No?

1462
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 6: I don't. I don't think we'll go into a dark age.

1463
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:33,000
Is because you know, a dark age, like we've specified before,

1464
01:36:33,119 --> 01:36:40,079
is typically characterized by ignorance. Yes, I do. I get

1465
01:36:40,079 --> 01:36:42,199
what you're saying that you know, you're a common person

1466
01:36:42,279 --> 01:36:44,760
might not be aware of these things, but that's kind

1467
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,399
of always been the case. The scary part is when

1468
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:52,119
the intellectual elite are not aware of these things, like

1469
01:36:52,159 --> 01:36:55,319
in the Middle Ages, where they it's not that they

1470
01:36:55,359 --> 01:37:00,359
weren't educated on Plato, they didn't even have Plato. You know,

1471
01:37:00,399 --> 01:37:02,560
it's not that they weren't educated on how to build

1472
01:37:03,039 --> 01:37:05,199
domes and architecture. They didn't even know, you know, they

1473
01:37:05,199 --> 01:37:08,239
didn't even have it anymore. And I think with things

1474
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:11,279
like CHAT, GPT and the rest, that we have an

1475
01:37:11,319 --> 01:37:14,199
overload of information. So I think we'll be all right

1476
01:37:14,279 --> 01:37:18,399
on knowledge, but I think that we'll run into some

1477
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:21,000
issues on other you know, sort of like ethics and things.

1478
01:37:21,039 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 4: But it can't chat GBD can't tell you and explain

1479
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,199
to you the essence of being, what is justice? What

1480
01:37:27,359 --> 01:37:31,560
is x y Z like it's it's pulling that information

1481
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:33,199
from the internet. It's a you know, it's a large

1482
01:37:33,239 --> 01:37:33,960
language model.

1483
01:37:34,039 --> 01:37:37,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean, we'll see what happens with it.

1484
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:40,479
It definitely is not a bad resource for you know,

1485
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:44,119
if you want to look up Latinus's ideas or Plato. Yeah,

1486
01:37:44,279 --> 01:37:46,800
you know, it's not the most trustworthy, but it could

1487
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:49,079
give you some kind of primer, you know what, you know,

1488
01:37:49,119 --> 01:37:53,000
Plato's Republic Summary or something, and you could get somewhat

1489
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,560
of an education, but you know, it'll be integrated. I

1490
01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:59,680
guess I'm no futurist at all. A few things that

1491
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:04,840
you touch earlier that are interesting though, is with the

1492
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,119
material Like you mentioned, Hermi's traced me Gast this in alchemy.

1493
01:38:09,199 --> 01:38:16,000
The Amblicus uses a proof for the divinity of matter.

1494
01:38:17,119 --> 01:38:20,239
So he's saying matter is divine, it comes from God,

1495
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,560
and I'm going to prove that it's important. And the

1496
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:26,239
way that he does this is he says, there's something

1497
01:38:26,279 --> 01:38:30,800
called platonic recollection. You know, the Platonists always say you

1498
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,920
don't learn anything, you just remember it. Yeah, you remember it, right,

1499
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:37,920
that that intellect or that noos that we talked about earlier,

1500
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:42,359
and that's connected to the divine mind to God. Because

1501
01:38:42,359 --> 01:38:45,680
it's connected to the divine mind, it knows everything, you

1502
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:48,840
know where it came from. It knows everything at least. Therefore,

1503
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,000
when you're learning something or when you're uncovering something in

1504
01:38:52,039 --> 01:38:57,520
your intellect, you're simply remembering it. It's called recollection and platonism.

1505
01:38:58,119 --> 01:39:02,880
And the Amblicus said, well, well, in order to recollect

1506
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:08,359
something or to learn something, you have to see it

1507
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:11,520
played out in front of you. You know, you learned

1508
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:20,439
something by seeing it, and therefore matter is the vehicle

1509
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:24,720
for recollection for learning. So he said that the material

1510
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:30,239
world is necessary for learning things or remembering things. We

1511
01:39:30,399 --> 01:39:32,640
you know, we learn by seeing things played out in

1512
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:34,520
front of us, or drawn out in front of us,

1513
01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:37,720
or acted out, you know, and we wouldn't have any

1514
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:45,239
understanding or knowledge without that sort of experience. And he said, therefore,

1515
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:50,319
matter is divine. It's a bridge to where our soul

1516
01:39:50,399 --> 01:39:53,800
came from, you know, to to the divine mind, to

1517
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:59,279
the intellect, the news, and so that that things like that, right,

1518
01:39:59,359 --> 01:40:04,319
that proved of the divinity of matter, and through platonic

1519
01:40:04,359 --> 01:40:11,720
recollection lays a groundwork for all of esoteric materialism, all

1520
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:16,000
of magic, all, like you said, alchemy, the hermetic tradition,

1521
01:40:16,279 --> 01:40:20,079
all of that is founded on these philosophical ideas, and

1522
01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:24,880
nobody laid it out like the Neoplatonists. Another thing you

1523
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:27,159
touched on was actually you met you just randomly brought

1524
01:40:27,199 --> 01:40:31,359
up the Naghammadi Library. I forgot to bring that up

1525
01:40:31,399 --> 01:40:34,920
when we're talking about early Christianity, that if you google

1526
01:40:35,039 --> 01:40:38,560
the Nagamadi Library and look at the books that were

1527
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:41,439
found there, A lot of them are Early Gospels or

1528
01:40:42,199 --> 01:40:45,720
whatever Old Testament books you know, I'm not too familiar

1529
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:50,439
with it, but dead Sea scrolls, what have you guess

1530
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:53,920
what else was found on the same shelf. In one

1531
01:40:53,960 --> 01:41:02,000
of these little caves was the Republic. They played out. Yeah,

1532
01:41:02,039 --> 01:41:06,039
so you'll see all these biblical books and religious books

1533
01:41:06,079 --> 01:41:08,640
and then you see the Republic, and that just tells

1534
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:12,119
you these things were existing side by side. Plato was

1535
01:41:12,159 --> 01:41:14,319
held in the utmost regard.

1536
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:19,359
Speaker 4: He is, yeah, wow, didn't know that.

1537
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:21,720
Speaker 6: And you just see you look, you you go down

1538
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:25,399
the list and everything else is like gospel or whatever,

1539
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,720
and then their public, you know, just square in the middle.

1540
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 4: Crazy.

1541
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:40,119
Speaker 6: So yeah, they're a big deal worth worth reading. And

1542
01:41:40,199 --> 01:41:42,720
when you're talking about translations. By the way, it also

1543
01:41:43,399 --> 01:41:47,640
brought something up in my mind, which was that in

1544
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:54,880
the Islamic world, the Arab Islamic world, they had uh

1545
01:41:55,359 --> 01:41:59,880
a text and you could look this up to the era.

1546
01:42:00,279 --> 01:42:04,720
Islamic world had a text which was titled in Arab

1547
01:42:05,199 --> 01:42:12,239
the Complete Works of Aristotle, and they used this for

1548
01:42:12,680 --> 01:42:15,960
it was like central to the Islamic education of philosophy.

1549
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:18,760
They were all studying it Complete Works of Aristotle. Ah,

1550
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:22,000
we're all reading Aristotle. And guess what we found out

1551
01:42:22,079 --> 01:42:26,520
on hundreds of years later, we find out that the

1552
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:30,119
book that they had titled the Complete Works of Aristotle

1553
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:37,239
was actually the Anyads of Platinus under a false title.

1554
01:42:37,319 --> 01:42:41,119
Someone had titled it Aristotle, and it was Platinus. And

1555
01:42:41,399 --> 01:42:47,000
so Islamic philosophy, especially Sufism, but a lot of the

1556
01:42:47,039 --> 01:42:50,720
more mystical aspects and even just the theology of Islam

1557
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:59,000
is neoplatonic. Neoplatonism had a massive role in Islam. You know,

1558
01:42:59,479 --> 01:43:02,520
for example, they don't have a trinity mm hmm, they

1559
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:05,000
have one God. They have a unity that's a very

1560
01:43:05,039 --> 01:43:09,159
neo platonic already to get rid of any division, you know,

1561
01:43:09,279 --> 01:43:14,039
there's ultimate unity, things like that. But it was it's

1562
01:43:14,119 --> 01:43:15,960
kind of a funny story though. They thought they were

1563
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:20,039
studying Aristotle and they were studying Platina like like a

1564
01:43:20,039 --> 01:43:26,239
few hundred years and had no idea and it would

1565
01:43:26,279 --> 01:43:30,760
make a big difference. Yeah, So it's funny they were

1566
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:35,960
studying Platinists while the and having their Golden Age while

1567
01:43:36,079 --> 01:43:40,439
you know, science and alchemy and learning and math, while

1568
01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:43,720
the while Europe was studying Aristotle and they were in

1569
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:47,119
their dark age, which is kind of funny. He was

1570
01:43:47,159 --> 01:43:50,880
a materialist, so it doesn't again doesn't lead to a

1571
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:55,159
lot of beauty and things like that. It's kind of a.

1572
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 4: Which we're probably living in a Universtilian era now where.

1573
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:01,600
Speaker 6: Absolutely yes, science and reason.

1574
01:44:01,479 --> 01:44:06,159
Speaker 4: And literally up until Aristelian biology wasn't changed up until

1575
01:44:06,159 --> 01:44:09,600
like the eighteenth century, you know, very late eighteenth century,

1576
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:11,479
which is wild, dude.

1577
01:44:12,039 --> 01:44:15,800
Speaker 6: Absolutely, yeah, Aristotle is dominant right now. We don't we

1578
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:19,279
have too much Aristotle. Non with Plato. I think Plato

1579
01:44:19,359 --> 01:44:25,640
is very mystical, very transcendent, spiritual. Aristotle believes that the

1580
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:29,600
forms in sort of the spiritual world was in matter.

1581
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:36,720
That matter was a you know, a primary substance, the

1582
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:40,840
prima materia, things like that, that it was like a

1583
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:44,680
source from which almost like a background like material that

1584
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:48,359
everything is like coming out of, like an ether kind

1585
01:44:48,359 --> 01:44:54,600
of deal. Things like that. Yeah, these people are you know,

1586
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:58,960
and there's modern day Platonists right now. It's not like

1587
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:03,239
the tradition is dead. The guy who wrote the introduction,

1588
01:45:03,399 --> 01:45:07,960
Ken Wheeler, is a modern day Platonist. He's a translator

1589
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:12,119
of ancient Greek, of ancient poly ancient Sanskrit. He's a

1590
01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:15,159
strange character, for sure. He's a big I think he

1591
01:45:15,199 --> 01:45:18,279
has like three hundred thousand something subscribers on YouTube. He's

1592
01:45:18,279 --> 01:45:23,399
pretty popular. But he is a savant. He understands metaphysics.

1593
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:29,000
And these big questions of philosophy. Yeah, as well as anyone.

1594
01:45:29,039 --> 01:45:30,359
He wrote the introduction to Mona.

1595
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:33,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, but I didn't know his face and now

1596
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:38,119
I saw him on YouTube and now I've seen.

1597
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:41,920
Speaker 6: This super super smart. He's hard to crack because I'll

1598
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:45,720
be honest, in his videos he kind of assumes that

1599
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:49,199
you know a lot of stuff, and if you're a beginner,

1600
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:51,960
it can be really tough. But once you get initiated

1601
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:57,760
into this platonic way of thinking, he is just delivering gold.

1602
01:45:58,159 --> 01:46:01,039
And again he'll give you kind of edge too. He's

1603
01:46:01,119 --> 01:46:07,039
really great. In the twenty twentieth century, you had people

1604
01:46:07,079 --> 01:46:11,319
like Alfred North Whitehead, who was a Platonist. He famously

1605
01:46:11,359 --> 01:46:14,359
said that all of Western philosophy is a series of

1606
01:46:14,399 --> 01:46:21,600
footnotes to Plato, which is a great quote. You have

1607
01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:25,560
people like Rupert Sheldrake today that I would say are

1608
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:35,119
Platonists and many others. It's it's it's still a living tradition. Yeah,

1609
01:46:35,159 --> 01:46:39,000
it's a rich tradition too, goes back, you know, if

1610
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:43,319
you're including Pythagoras twenty five hundred years. Yeah, as far

1611
01:46:43,319 --> 01:46:47,279
as Western philosophy goes, that is absolutely ancient.

1612
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:51,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why i'd be interested again to see where

1613
01:46:51,199 --> 01:46:53,640
we're at in a thousand years, if things have changed,

1614
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:57,439
if the things have been you know, kept we keep

1615
01:46:57,439 --> 01:46:59,920
a record or not. And how you said there is

1616
01:47:00,119 --> 01:47:03,079
overabundance of information, but it feels like no one does

1617
01:47:03,079 --> 01:47:06,840
anything with that information, and that can be overwhelming for some.

1618
01:47:07,119 --> 01:47:09,920
You know, this informational and ideological soup that you're in,

1619
01:47:10,399 --> 01:47:12,920
Where do you go? How do you find it? And

1620
01:47:13,079 --> 01:47:15,479
not saying that these all these dudes were right, but

1621
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:18,359
they had a strong foundation, and how you're saying it's

1622
01:47:18,439 --> 01:47:21,359
important for people to at least read some of Plato's works,

1623
01:47:22,159 --> 01:47:25,159
even if it is you know, read whatever, read tomatoes.

1624
01:47:25,239 --> 01:47:27,840
Read the Republic, that's my favorite. Republic.

1625
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,079
Speaker 6: Republic is like a hundred something paid is It's pretty small.

1626
01:47:31,279 --> 01:47:35,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's bro it's wild. I mean that that

1627
01:47:36,079 --> 01:47:37,600
when I first read that, I have I think I

1628
01:47:37,640 --> 01:47:40,479
have like a Penguin Press copy of it or something

1629
01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:45,039
like this paperback. I bought it in Miami. Actually, you know,

1630
01:47:45,079 --> 01:47:48,319
you just read it and and I don't know, we'll

1631
01:47:48,359 --> 01:47:49,960
see where we're at. And that's why it's important for

1632
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:52,920
people to go check out the book. The Moon ad that.

1633
01:47:54,439 --> 01:47:58,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're going to publish The Republic Tom's Taylor translation

1634
01:47:58,359 --> 01:48:02,880
of The Republic in probably a year. Yeah, definitely read

1635
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:07,159
read Monad. It It's also a great book because you

1636
01:48:07,239 --> 01:48:09,880
can open up to any page. Is not a book,

1637
01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:12,000
it's not a novel that has to be read front

1638
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:14,359
to back. You can open up to a random page

1639
01:48:14,359 --> 01:48:18,600
and start reading on the Platinis section, which is half

1640
01:48:18,680 --> 01:48:21,560
the first half of the book. Those are what that's

1641
01:48:21,439 --> 01:48:26,119
his book his works called the any Ads. The any

1642
01:48:26,159 --> 01:48:29,079
Ads are a series of essays, so every chapter is

1643
01:48:29,079 --> 01:48:32,239
a separate thing that it can be read completely on

1644
01:48:32,279 --> 01:48:44,199
its own, and he covers topics like the existence of evil, virtue, happiness, beauty,

1645
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:54,079
nature and origin of evil, suicide, even matter, on eternity

1646
01:48:54,319 --> 01:48:58,159
and time. Like these are huge topics. You know. These

1647
01:48:58,199 --> 01:49:02,359
are not like a you know, stoicism or something like

1648
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:04,920
my day to day life. This is these are these

1649
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:07,560
are the big things. They want to start big and

1650
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:09,960
then work down to the small and be like, Okay,

1651
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:12,680
if you have an understanding of the source of all

1652
01:49:12,720 --> 01:49:16,800
things and how the world is strong together, and you

1653
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:19,880
know what matter is like and time is like, well

1654
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:23,239
then it's to them. It's like almost the things are

1655
01:49:23,279 --> 01:49:25,399
in day to day life or how to arrange your

1656
01:49:25,439 --> 01:49:27,720
mind or whatever fall into place. You know, it's like, well,

1657
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:31,640
it's almost obvious from there, whereas a lot of other

1658
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:33,800
people would take the you know, be like, Okay, once

1659
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:35,800
I have my life figured out, then I can worry

1660
01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:41,359
about you know, matter and happiness and you know whatever else.

1661
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:44,560
Speaker 4: Stoics were just like I just want to chill. Yeah, yeah,

1662
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:47,359
be alone.

1663
01:49:48,199 --> 01:49:51,399
Speaker 6: The on the Immortality of soul. These are all chapters.

1664
01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:55,239
You know, that chapter is fifteen pages on the immortality

1665
01:49:55,279 --> 01:49:57,000
of the soul. So you can pick up this book. Yes,

1666
01:49:57,039 --> 01:50:00,479
it's eight hundred eighteen pages. You can read the pick

1667
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:04,199
up this book and read fifteen to twenty page chapter

1668
01:50:04,279 --> 01:50:06,960
and take notes, and you're gonna be getting like prime

1669
01:50:07,079 --> 01:50:13,319
time education on metaphysics. Again, are there things I disagree with? Yes,

1670
01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:16,560
I will read the chapter on happiness or on whatever

1671
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,479
and be like, nah, you know, their conclusion is not

1672
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:24,479
my conclusion. But seeing them work through the dialectic and

1673
01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:28,119
their reasoning to get to that conclusion is a master

1674
01:50:28,279 --> 01:50:30,079
course of thinking.

1675
01:50:31,119 --> 01:50:31,319
Speaker 4: You know.

1676
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:34,920
Speaker 6: Then you're like, oh shit, like, you know, yeah, whatever

1677
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:39,720
their conclusion was in mine. And sometimes, you know, Platinus

1678
01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:43,760
is such a freak mind that he'll even give you

1679
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:48,560
both sides of the answer. So, like, here's a good

1680
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:54,399
example on the nature and origin of evil. In neoplatonism,

1681
01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:59,079
there is no evil. There's no absolute evil, meaning evil

1682
01:50:59,199 --> 01:51:02,760
is not a thing like good is a thing. Evil

1683
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:05,600
is just a lack of good. It's like a shadow, right,

1684
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:09,199
a shadow is not a thing. It's just lack of life.

1685
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:12,520
That's their view of evil. They say, they're at least

1686
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:19,119
Platinus that evil is either caused by free will by humans,

1687
01:51:19,279 --> 01:51:23,880
you know, human misdoings, or a lack of goodness. It's just,

1688
01:51:24,279 --> 01:51:27,640
you know, whatever it was, it's far from the source.

1689
01:51:28,840 --> 01:51:33,520
It's in the shadow, and that's evil. And to me,

1690
01:51:34,119 --> 01:51:37,199
that's not really a satisfactory answer, to be totally honest,

1691
01:51:37,319 --> 01:51:40,159
because if you watch you know, if you study evil,

1692
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:44,720
you study Stalin or serial killers or Epstein or these

1693
01:51:44,760 --> 01:51:47,000
horrible things, you're like, I don't know, man. You know,

1694
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:50,279
of course that can fall under the free will too,

1695
01:51:51,399 --> 01:51:53,199
but you see things where you're like, I don't know,

1696
01:51:53,279 --> 01:51:59,439
there's something absolute about this, you know, and young straight

1697
01:51:59,520 --> 01:52:04,239
up in I think an Aon directly calls out the

1698
01:52:04,239 --> 01:52:09,960
neoplatonists for this because it's called what do they call it?

1699
01:52:10,520 --> 01:52:12,000
Speaker 4: By the way Hitler did read Plato.

1700
01:52:12,159 --> 01:52:17,880
Speaker 6: So, yeah, the things everyone read Plato before is I

1701
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:21,279
assumed that you like had an education, you know, it

1702
01:52:21,319 --> 01:52:26,640
was like reading whatever, just like the classics. But anyways,

1703
01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:32,039
this sort of privation of good idea Young really hated

1704
01:52:32,079 --> 01:52:35,239
it because he studied the human mind. He said, oh, no, no, no,

1705
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:38,199
there is absolute evil and I've seen it. You know,

1706
01:52:38,279 --> 01:52:45,039
there is something dark. And I was like underwhelmed by

1707
01:52:45,039 --> 01:52:47,560
Platinus's answer. I'll say that because he said, no, the

1708
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:50,920
world is ultimately good. You know, the one, the monad

1709
01:52:51,039 --> 01:52:57,000
is goodness itself, and therefore you know there's no bookend

1710
01:52:57,359 --> 01:53:00,000
the other end. That's absolute evil. It's not absolutely good,

1711
01:53:00,039 --> 01:53:03,840
absolute evil on two sides of the universe, and they're

1712
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:06,760
battling each other like a gnocissism. He said, there's good

1713
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:10,119
at the top, and the further things get away from good,

1714
01:53:10,199 --> 01:53:12,119
you know that, I guess the more evil they get,

1715
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:17,279
or human free will can also be evil. And I

1716
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:19,640
read that, and but you know, his conclusion is the

1717
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:24,000
world is good. There is evil, but it's good overall

1718
01:53:24,079 --> 01:53:28,279
because everything comes out of the one, and there's no

1719
01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:32,399
evil doesn't have sort of attributes of itself, just simply

1720
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:37,000
privation of good, and I was underwhelmed. But then at

1721
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:40,800
the end of the chapter he hits you with the

1722
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:44,640
other side. He comes all the way back around. He says, oh,

1723
01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:48,600
you know what, maybe there is absolute evil. And I

1724
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:51,399
was like, oh my god, this guy's like answering both

1725
01:53:52,680 --> 01:53:56,760
points of view, like it's totally crazy. He comes around,

1726
01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:58,880
he says, maybe there is absolute evil. He said, I'll

1727
01:53:58,920 --> 01:54:01,840
give you that. Okay, there's absolutely evil. There's a Satan

1728
01:54:02,119 --> 01:54:05,760
or there's whatever, this black anchor at the bottom of

1729
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:09,039
the world. That's absolute evil itself, you know, just like

1730
01:54:09,159 --> 01:54:12,600
at the top there's absolute good. And he said, even then,

1731
01:54:13,319 --> 01:54:19,359
when there's absolute evil, the world is still good overall

1732
01:54:19,640 --> 01:54:23,840
because with absolute evil and absolute good, those two things,

1733
01:54:23,960 --> 01:54:28,520
like bookends give order to the world, and balance and

1734
01:54:28,760 --> 01:54:33,239
order an organization and balance are all good things. They're

1735
01:54:33,279 --> 01:54:36,279
all good aspects. Isn't that crazy.

1736
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:39,319
Speaker 4: Because to compare it to it, it makes perfect sense.

1737
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:46,039
Speaker 6: This orderliness is actually reconciled into a good even in

1738
01:54:46,079 --> 01:54:49,920
that worldview. So he gives you both cases. He gives

1739
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:52,720
you his personal opinion that that there's no evil, it's

1740
01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:55,680
just a privation. But he said, even in you know,

1741
01:54:55,840 --> 01:55:00,479
the opposite idea when you have absolute evil, like Young argue, for,

1742
01:55:01,439 --> 01:55:06,359
even then the world is still good because the attributes

1743
01:55:07,399 --> 01:55:11,880
which absolute evil lends to the world as a counterforce,

1744
01:55:13,439 --> 01:55:16,680
it gives a finiteness to the world. You know, it's

1745
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:20,920
no longer infinite, it's finite, and that finiteeness is good.

1746
01:55:21,680 --> 01:55:25,680
It's orderly, it's organized, it's balanced. All of these words

1747
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:29,279
you could say about the overall aspects, not about evil self,

1748
01:55:29,359 --> 01:55:34,920
but that the overall condition in the world, given absolutely evil,

1749
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:41,319
are good things. And so even then he's able to Again,

1750
01:55:41,439 --> 01:55:44,000
that's the dialect that he used these two opposites to

1751
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:50,880
be reconciled into a higher unity of goodness. And I

1752
01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:53,880
was blown away, you know. I started off like read

1753
01:55:53,880 --> 01:55:56,359
that chapter and I was like getting through it, and

1754
01:55:56,359 --> 01:55:58,239
I was like, I don't know, man, I think there's

1755
01:55:58,279 --> 01:56:02,319
definitely evil, you know, it's there's some really bad stuff,

1756
01:56:02,439 --> 01:56:06,840
like really hard to even imagine stuff in history and

1757
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:10,319
in the current day. And at the end he gave

1758
01:56:10,319 --> 01:56:13,279
me my answer. You know, it wasn't his answer, but

1759
01:56:13,319 --> 01:56:16,239
he knew that people would disagree, and he said he'll

1760
01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:19,800
he'll take that anyways and spin it around and show

1761
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:22,560
you that it works. Towards his case in the end.

1762
01:56:22,600 --> 01:56:25,520
Speaker 4: Anyway, I want to get back together. Just so the

1763
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:27,479
last time I got back together was over two years

1764
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:32,079
ago or two years because the last episode I published

1765
01:56:32,079 --> 01:56:35,319
with you and I was December twenty fifthwenty three, no way,

1766
01:56:35,359 --> 01:56:38,600
So yeah, we got to get back together sooner than later.

1767
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:40,640
And I want to do an episode on Iamblicus. I

1768
01:56:40,640 --> 01:56:42,760
want to talk about Iamblicus on the Mystery.

1769
01:56:42,479 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 6: Yea, and yeah, he has give it a read. I

1770
01:56:47,039 --> 01:56:48,760
can send you a copy if you want a copy.

1771
01:56:48,920 --> 01:56:51,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got the hardcover copy. I'll read that. We'll

1772
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:55,279
get back together and then we'll talk more about the

1773
01:56:55,319 --> 01:56:58,479
mown Adam and the Iamblicus because that's super interesting to

1774
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:02,399
me where it takes a turn because right we're talking

1775
01:57:02,439 --> 01:57:04,159
about these people who are very meditative, and then I

1776
01:57:04,159 --> 01:57:08,199
don't know where it's like after that, the occult is

1777
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:11,199
just like rampant, you know, like because the Egyptians are

1778
01:57:11,199 --> 01:57:13,600
the first alchemists, right, I mean, that's that's where the

1779
01:57:13,800 --> 01:57:17,399
origins of yeah alchemy are. And I forgot who it was.

1780
01:57:17,439 --> 01:57:22,279
I think it was. I think it was By the.

1781
01:57:22,319 --> 01:57:26,640
Speaker 6: Way, his thesis is his book is called on the

1782
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:31,119
egypt On the on the mysteries of the Egyptians, the Assyrians,

1783
01:57:31,119 --> 01:57:34,920
the Babylonians. I think he's too. I think right, Audians,

1784
01:57:35,800 --> 01:57:40,119
the Cardean Oracles, those books were really influential Indian Platonists.

1785
01:57:42,439 --> 01:57:49,159
But he has this thesis because Platinus and Porphyry were saying, oh,

1786
01:57:49,239 --> 01:57:51,880
you know, let's go back to the old stuff. You know,

1787
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:54,720
forget Aristotle, forget like this kind of material of stuff,

1788
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,039
Let's go back to Plato. Let's because Platinus is like

1789
01:57:58,079 --> 01:58:02,439
the two hundreds, so Plato is like four hundred years

1790
01:58:02,479 --> 01:58:05,560
before him, five hundred years. So the neo Platonists were

1791
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:11,079
fairly late, you know, compared to Plato. Like they were

1792
01:58:11,079 --> 01:58:13,439
going back a few hundred years and reviving the tradition.

1793
01:58:14,119 --> 01:58:16,159
And by the time it gets to the Amblicus, he's like,

1794
01:58:16,199 --> 01:58:18,600
oh no, let's go back like way further.

1795
01:58:19,399 --> 01:58:22,279
Speaker 4: That's why he wrote about Pathagorist. Then, right, he's the biography.

1796
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:25,560
Speaker 6: He wants to go to Pythagoras and back as far

1797
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:28,720
as he can the Egyptians, you know, and that's why,

1798
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:32,920
like you said, he revivesed all that. You know, people,

1799
01:58:33,439 --> 01:58:36,279
I'm sure we're interested in Egyptian stuff and Assyrian stuff

1800
01:58:36,319 --> 01:58:39,520
Babylonian called the end, but the Amblicus was like, no,

1801
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:41,760
I'm bringing it back and like in a big way,

1802
01:58:42,399 --> 01:58:46,039
and I'm gonna make it part of our worldview and

1803
01:58:46,439 --> 01:58:50,000
unbelievably important. Like I said, if you read On the

1804
01:58:50,039 --> 01:58:56,520
Mysteries by Iamblicus translated by Thomas Taylor, and then go

1805
01:58:56,640 --> 01:59:00,920
read Theorgy in the Soul. Like Gregory Shaw, he's currently

1806
01:59:01,039 --> 01:59:03,640
alive and you could get him in the show probably,

1807
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:08,800
he's really good. He does podcasts. If you go read

1808
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:12,960
his book afterwards, which is about On the Mysteries, it's

1809
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:16,199
about the Amblkiss, you will have like a full education

1810
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:19,239
on that on that line of thinking, like I did it.

1811
01:59:19,399 --> 01:59:22,079
I read both and took notes and by the end

1812
01:59:22,199 --> 01:59:25,000
I was like, wow, I feel like an expert or

1813
01:59:25,039 --> 01:59:25,640
something in it.

1814
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:28,640
Speaker 4: And I forgot what I think. It was either Bruno

1815
01:59:28,920 --> 01:59:31,279
or Facino, one of those two that I was talking about,

1816
01:59:31,319 --> 01:59:39,119
trist Magistus being a like he predicted Christianity. I don't

1817
01:59:39,159 --> 01:59:40,479
know if you've ever heard about that, like he was

1818
01:59:40,520 --> 01:59:45,000
like a Christian songs. Yeah it was Bruno, right, I

1819
01:59:45,079 --> 01:59:48,880
remember reading that with Yates. But you know, we'll we'll

1820
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:52,079
get back together. Well, I'll read that and then we'll

1821
01:59:52,159 --> 01:59:54,399
chop it up with that, because I love this sort

1822
01:59:54,399 --> 01:59:56,680
of a line of thinking and I want to dig

1823
01:59:56,720 --> 01:59:59,760
more into the occult side of it, dude, and I

1824
01:59:59,800 --> 02:00:00,479
want like.

1825
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:04,680
Speaker 6: Bruno, by the way, I thought that Jesus was crucified

1826
02:00:04,720 --> 02:00:09,319
on an unk really yeah, like that the cross he

1827
02:00:09,479 --> 02:00:12,119
was on had the yeah circle the top.

1828
02:00:13,479 --> 02:00:15,520
Speaker 4: He he wasn't burned at the steak for that. He

1829
02:00:15,560 --> 02:00:18,600
was burned at the steak for yeah, other thing, for

1830
02:00:18,680 --> 02:00:19,319
some other.

1831
02:00:19,960 --> 02:00:22,960
Speaker 6: But God bless him that. I mean, can you imagine. No,

1832
02:00:24,119 --> 02:00:26,479
you know, he was in captivity with the Inquisition for

1833
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:32,079
seven years, Bruno, seven years, and he wouldn't concede.

1834
02:00:33,239 --> 02:00:33,399
Speaker 4: You know.

1835
02:00:33,439 --> 02:00:35,079
Speaker 6: They would come in and be like, hey, like just

1836
02:00:35,159 --> 02:00:39,039
drop it, you know, like just accept like Catholic dogma,

1837
02:00:39,279 --> 02:00:40,000
like stop talking, I.

1838
02:00:40,079 --> 02:00:41,720
Speaker 4: Just want you to recan't like what you said, or

1839
02:00:41,720 --> 02:00:42,920
they're just like take it back.

1840
02:00:43,600 --> 02:00:47,840
Speaker 6: He's like he's like no, and for seven years and

1841
02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:51,439
they're like torturing it. I mean, unreal and it's a

1842
02:00:51,479 --> 02:00:51,920
miss a.

1843
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 4: Uh.

1844
02:00:53,039 --> 02:00:58,000
Speaker 6: We're releasing a limited print of Giordano Bruno at the Stake.

1845
02:00:58,039 --> 02:01:00,439
We had an artist to a rendition of it out

1846
02:01:00,439 --> 02:01:02,960
of Portugal. It's really cool. I'll send it to you.

1847
02:01:03,239 --> 02:01:05,560
We're going to do a posters, like only one hundred

1848
02:01:05,560 --> 02:01:11,159
of them as like a promotional item for the book

1849
02:01:11,239 --> 02:01:15,920
that comes out March. And we included in it a

1850
02:01:15,960 --> 02:01:22,159
Masonic secret about Bruno, which a customer who's a master

1851
02:01:22,279 --> 02:01:25,640
Mason of a lodge in New Jersey who comes to

1852
02:01:25,800 --> 02:01:29,800
the bookstore, he told me about this. He said that

1853
02:01:29,880 --> 02:01:35,399
when they teach you about Bruno in Masonry, it's told

1854
02:01:36,319 --> 02:01:40,520
that or said that when they put him at the stake,

1855
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:45,399
they put a necklace around him of gun bags of gunpowder,

1856
02:01:47,279 --> 02:01:50,119
so that he would almost literally explode when they let

1857
02:01:50,159 --> 02:01:54,720
him on fire. And I don't know why the Masons

1858
02:01:54,720 --> 02:01:57,359
teach that. That is not found anywhere else. I've googled it,

1859
02:01:57,399 --> 02:02:01,560
I've looked everywhere. It's like Mason mythology for some reason.

1860
02:02:03,399 --> 02:02:06,399
I'm not sure if it's symbolic or whatever. But we

1861
02:02:06,479 --> 02:02:08,880
did in our print to we included that little detail.

1862
02:02:10,840 --> 02:02:18,119
Speaker 4: I wonder what happened to They were fine, Oh, his

1863
02:02:18,279 --> 02:02:23,920
ashes were thrown into the Tiber River. YEA interesting. Well, dude,

1864
02:02:23,960 --> 02:02:28,960
I really enjoyed this conversation. Super enlightening, super super interesting.

1865
02:02:29,079 --> 02:02:32,039
Where can people go to find your work? Again, they

1866
02:02:32,159 --> 02:02:37,640
want to purchase a copy limited in copies. Hopefully IM

1867
02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:40,520
gonna be around for much longer. Where can they go? So?

1868
02:02:40,560 --> 02:02:43,800
Speaker 6: You can go to Gala Glassbooks Dot shop. You can

1869
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:49,720
follow at Galla Glass Books on Instagram. I definitely wanted

1870
02:02:49,760 --> 02:02:52,800
to give a shout out to my business partner, Tony Ferry.

1871
02:02:54,520 --> 02:02:57,000
We are fifty to fifty partners, so it's not just me.

1872
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:00,560
He's also a part owner of the books The Dancing

1873
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:05,800
Elephant in South Florida. He's a huge force behind all this.

1874
02:03:06,039 --> 02:03:10,359
He is the one who got me to be passionate

1875
02:03:10,399 --> 02:03:15,039
about book design, to see that not all books are

1876
02:03:15,039 --> 02:03:18,159
created equal. You know that there are beautiful books, that

1877
02:03:18,239 --> 02:03:22,119
book design used to be an art form, that frontist

1878
02:03:22,119 --> 02:03:26,479
pieces used to be in art form, book covers, typesetting,

1879
02:03:26,560 --> 02:03:31,439
all these things were crafts that used to be in

1880
02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:34,119
demand and that great artists would put a lot of

1881
02:03:34,159 --> 02:03:37,000
work into. He got me to see all that and

1882
02:03:37,079 --> 02:03:42,800
kind of start collecting beautiful books. And I had the

1883
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:45,199
idea to start a publishing company only a few months

1884
02:03:45,199 --> 02:03:49,720
after opening the bookstore. But he was really the creative

1885
02:03:50,159 --> 02:03:53,920
or artistic force behind it to get me, and you know,

1886
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:57,279
I would have maybe just published things that are out

1887
02:03:57,319 --> 02:04:00,560
of print, you know, just in paperback or whatever. That

1888
02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:02,239
he he got me to kind of be a book

1889
02:04:02,279 --> 02:04:07,439
snob and the like, you know, really into the paper

1890
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:09,880
and like having them be hardcover and like all these

1891
02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:14,920
little details to make them beautiful, beautiful books. So he's

1892
02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:17,920
a big, big part of this too. He could be

1893
02:04:17,960 --> 02:04:19,840
cool to have on some other time too. He's this

1894
02:04:20,079 --> 02:04:24,479
smart guy. I definitely had to acknowledge him for sure.

1895
02:04:24,520 --> 02:04:26,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, put me through to him and then we'll go

1896
02:04:26,399 --> 02:04:30,359
back together here. Not in two years twenty seven.

1897
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:34,199
Speaker 6: I think I did something with you with on Rudolph

1898
02:04:34,239 --> 02:04:37,560
that was not that long ago. Maybe it's still like

1899
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:39,039
a year and a half probably.

1900
02:04:39,359 --> 02:04:41,720
Speaker 4: I think it was that Life the Live that we did,

1901
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:45,560
right Rudolph the I think the Alchemical Emperor April still, dude,

1902
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:49,000
April fifteen, twenty twenty three. We streamed that live.

1903
02:04:49,760 --> 02:04:55,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and Bruno was with Rudolph. So yeah, that

1904
02:04:55,680 --> 02:04:59,039
book comes out in March. That one's really cool, really exciting.

1905
02:04:59,199 --> 02:05:00,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll keep a looking out for that, dude. I'll

1906
02:05:00,960 --> 02:05:04,880
post all the links in the description and there's always everyone.

1907
02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:07,800
If you enjoyed this, leave it a review, thumbs up,

1908
02:05:07,880 --> 02:05:10,920
five stars, whatever, make sure all the show on social

1909
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:13,119
media at the one on one podcast. Make sure to

1910
02:05:13,119 --> 02:05:16,239
follow Professor Langa and his work over there. Go visit

1911
02:05:16,279 --> 02:05:20,199
the bookstore if you'd like, down in South Florida, the

1912
02:05:20,279 --> 02:05:23,479
Dancing Elephant. I've been there. It's great. It's a magical place.

1913
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:25,640
You go in there and you feel smarter just from

1914
02:05:25,680 --> 02:05:28,079
being in there around all that knowledge and all those books.

1915
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:30,720
It's an awesome place, dude. And hopefully I'll see you

1916
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:33,880
soon here in person or something. I was supposed to

1917
02:05:33,920 --> 02:05:35,760
go down for the holidays. I didn't end up going,

1918
02:05:36,399 --> 02:05:39,279
but we'll link up here soon. And it's always everyone.

1919
02:05:39,359 --> 02:05:42,479
Make sure to love each other, to be good. We'll

1920
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:43,920
catch you on the next one.

1921
02:05:44,479 --> 02:06:33,279
Speaker 7: Bye.

1922
02:06:35,039 --> 02:06:38,039
Speaker 2: If you're with FBD insurance and your van gets robbed,

1923
02:06:38,119 --> 02:06:41,439
it's not a flipping, blooming disaster. That's not what FBD

1924
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:46,000
stands for. FBD stands for support. We support van owners

1925
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,239
like you by covering your work tools up to the

1926
02:06:48,319 --> 02:06:50,880
value of five hundred euro if they're stolen with your van.

1927
02:06:51,479 --> 02:06:55,239
FBD insurance support it's what we do. Visit your local

1928
02:06:55,279 --> 02:07:00,880
branch to talk to your FBD insurance team. Requires valid

1929
02:07:00,920 --> 02:07:04,119
van theft claim excludes electronics and software, tcenc's and normal

1930
02:07:04,159 --> 02:07:07,680
underwriting criteria apply under written by FBD Insurance Plc. FBD

1931
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:10,600
Insurance Group Limited, trading as FBD Insurance, is regulated by

1932
02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:11,600
the Central Bank of Ireland.

1933
02:07:13,079 --> 02:07:15,840
Speaker 3: This is an ad by Better Help. We always hear

1934
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:19,439
about the red flags to avoid in relationships, but it's

1935
02:07:19,600 --> 02:07:22,479
just as important to focus on the green flags. If

1936
02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:24,199
you're not quite sure what they look like.

1937
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,920
Speaker 8: Therapy can help you identify those qualities so you can

1938
02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:30,720
embody the green flag energy and find it in others.

1939
02:07:31,279 --> 02:07:34,840
Better Help offers therapy one hundred percent online and sign

1940
02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:39,039
up only takes a few minutes. Visit Betterhelp hlp dot

1941
02:07:39,079 --> 02:07:42,000
com slash New Direction today to get ten percent of

1942
02:07:42,079 --> 02:07:42,800
your first month