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Speaker 1: That Saint Brendan gave communion to a mermaid. That's actually

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the really tame later version of the story. Okay, it's

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actually much much stranger than that. I mean saying, you know,

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commuting a mermaid. That's pretty believable for me. Yes, the thing,

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but the thing that happens in this version of the story,

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this is really something else. So they had not gone

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far from there when they found a fair, young maiden

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with golden tresses as wide as snow or the foam

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of the wave, lying dead from the thrust of a

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spear which had entered between her shoulders and come out

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between her two breasts. So this young beautiful woman, stabbed

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in the back, killed, lying there dead on the ocean.

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Speaker 2: Vast was the size of the maiden. She was four.

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Speaker 1: She was one hundred feet high, nine feet between, her

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breasts four feet long, and her middle finger seven feet long.

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Brendan restored her to life and baptizes her at once.

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Speaker 3: This is Jonathan Pejel. Welcome to the symbolic world. Hello everyone,

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We are back here with Richard Roland. You all of

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you know him really well. We are going to do

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our second pass at the voyage of Saint Brenda that amazing,

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weird and disturbing tale, and so Richard's going to take

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us along.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, and it took us a little bit

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of time to get around to this because I had

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a baby and then a flood, but it took Saint

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Brendan seven years to get back home. So I feel

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like we're actually like pretty ahead of schedule.

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Speaker 3: And I and I told Richard that, you know, I'm

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not I don't know how much of it is true,

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but there is a there is a rumor going around

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the symbolic world that we call it something like the

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Saint Christopher Curse maybe or the Saint Christopher blessing. Not

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sure that it seems like people involved in the symbolic world,

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and especially around the story of God's Dog and Saint Christopher,

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seemed to seem to have floods, and so.

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's got a sort of initiatory, right,

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Oh my gosh. Well, okay, so, speaking of floods, when

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we last left our heroes, right, Saint Brendan is out

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on the water.

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Speaker 2: Saint Brendan actually takes two voyages.

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Speaker 1: In the life of Saint Brendan, or at least a

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version of it, that we've been reading again. This comes

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from Christopher Plumber, not Christopher Plumber, christ Christopher Plumber as

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an actor. This comes from Charles Plummer's Life of the

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Irish Saints, And so that'll be kind of the version that.

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Speaker 2: I'm reading from today.

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Speaker 1: There are other versions of the Voyage of Saint Brendan,

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but this particular one is pretty old and it works

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in a lot of works in a lot of kind

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of interesting details that I think get omitted later And

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I think part of the reason they get omitted later

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on is because some of them are just really weird.

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Speaker 2: They're really strange. You don't know what to do with them.

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Speaker 1: And if you're trying to take the story and retell

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it in a coherent way, in a way that feels

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like it's like a narrative, some of these things can

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be a little bit frustrating. Fortunately, I am not burdened

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with the need to do that today, So I'm just

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going to read some weird things to you. And I

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think the thing that we left on last time was

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this idea of celebrating Pasco or celebrating Easter on the

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back of the Monster. And this is an idea that

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sort of I come back around to over again. In

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my imagination, I especially think about you know, Pasca during

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you know Pasca twenty twenty and and and you know

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what happened that year, you know, where we weren't be

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able to be in church. Uh and then you know,

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how how were we supposed to keep the feast.

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Speaker 2: In that year?

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Speaker 1: And actually what we did at my house is that

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we had we had friends came over and we just

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did a reader's service and we did like the whole

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midnight office for Pasca and everything else. So we you know,

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we lit candles and we processed around the house and honestly,

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as rough as that year was, that is one of

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my favorite memories.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was just really really blessed.

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Speaker 1: And afterwards we had a bunch of food, and you know,

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I don't want to trivialize how difficult and traumatic that

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year was for everyone, But at the same time, there

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was this kind of you know, the sense of being

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out out on the waves that year. And so this

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is the story, This is how it goes. When however,

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Easter drew near Brendan's company began to say to him

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that he should land for the celebration of Easter, and

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the interesting thing is that there are if you read

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the whole voyage of Saint Brendan, there are multiple times

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where they're serving the mass, like basically every day on

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the boat. But the idea is, and keep in mind,

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these are skin boats, boats made out of skin, which,

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as we're going to see, is actually really significant in

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the story in a way that I think you're going

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to like.

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Speaker 2: And so they're serving mass every day.

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Speaker 1: But well, it's Pasca is coming up, so we need

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to like have a we need to have a fixed place.

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We need to find land so we can celebrate Easter.

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So God is able, said Brendan, to find a land

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for us in any place he pleases. When then Easter came,

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a great whale raised its shoulders high above the surface

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of the waves so that it formed dry land, and

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then they landed and celebrated Easter on it. And they

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were there one day and two nights. When they had

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entered their boats, the whale dived into the sea once more.

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It was thus that they celebrated Easter to the end

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of seven years on the back of the sea monster.

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So it's either that Saint Brendan's first voyage is five

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years and a second voyage is two or the first

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one is seven years, and the second one is too.

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There's numbers are one of the most difficult things to

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translate from old manuscripts, and so there are places where

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the manuscripts kind of disagree. But in any case, he

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spends at they spend at least seven easters like this,

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seven pascas like this, or when it was near easter

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each year, it would lift its back above the sea,

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forming dry land. Now this story would mean something very different.

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I mean, obviously to modern people, we're just you know,

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the story just sort of bounces off of us. We're like, oh,

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that's weird, how could that even happen? How could that

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be a real thing? But this one mean something very

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different to somebody in the Middle Ages because of what

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whales mean, right, what a whale is. I mean, a

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whale is really a sea monster. And you can definitely

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image and if you're sailing along the North Atlantic and

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a little boat made out of animal skins and you

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see a whale, I mean that is potentially extremely bad news, right,

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And so, uh, there's a couple of a couple of

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old sources that you can go to for how whales

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were viewed I would just give a couple here. This

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is from a second century Latin kind of bestiary or

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a book of natural history with you know what we

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would consider to be like biology or something like that now,

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and it says that there is a monster in the sea,

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which in Greek is called an asp Oh boy, here

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we go, aspid do decline, I got that wrong, aspid

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do keloone kelony aspido kellnye.

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Speaker 2: There we go.

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Speaker 1: In Latin, the asp turtle, it is a great whale

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that has what appears to be beaches on its hide,

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like those from the seashore. This creature raised its back

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above the waves of the sea so that sailors believe

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that it is just an island, so that when they

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see it, it appears to them to be a sandy beach,

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such as is common along the seashore. Believing it to

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be an island, they beat their ship alongside it and disembarking,

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they plant steaks and tie up the ships. Then, in

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order to cook a meal after this work, they make

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fires on the sand as if on land. But when

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the monster feels the heat of these fires, it immediately

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submerges in the water and pulls the ship into the

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depths of the sea. So this is like some kind

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of a large turtle or some kind of a large whale.

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In the Alexander Romance, which I.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there definitely is this. There definitely is that.

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Speaker 1: Story Alexander Romance. It says they landed on the so

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called island in an hour pass Suddenly it proved to

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be no island, but a monster which plunged into the sea.

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We shouted and it disappeared, but some of my companions

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met a wretched death, among them my best friend. That's

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Alexander writing to Aristotle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so see if you find that in this sort

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of simba, there's a lot of old stories that have this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this's this idea is kind of surprisingly well documented.

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I'd say, make of that what you will. Yeah, you know,

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the all the the crypto bros. By which I mean

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like the cryptozoology bros. Not the board monkeys bros. But yeah,

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get in the comments.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so.

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Speaker 1: If you read medieval bestiaries, then what they do with

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this idea is they see the whale as a actually

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a type of the devil, right, and that the devil

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sort of you know, or a type of the passions.

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Speaker 2: Right, this thing that sort of deceives you.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's one thing into thinking it's solid land,

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into thinking you know that you're going to be safe here,

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that you can rest here, that you can eat here,

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and then it dives beneath the sea and it takes

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you down with it. Right, that's the basic idea. So

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then knowing that this is a kind of a common

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understanding in the ancient world and in the Middle.

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Speaker 2: Ages, we have this like what do you do with

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this story?

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Speaker 1: So this is where I present the weird thing, and

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then I pass it over to you, Jonathan. But no,

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you can sort of say, like what do you do

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with the story that that that basically it's the devil, right,

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Basically it's the passions. Basically it's the thing that you

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spend your entire life actually as a monk, trying to

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get away from, trying to escape, trying to defeat. And

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that's the miracle that comes every year. So you can

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celebrate Easter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think I think that you the way

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to understand it is to see it in a wider

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as in a wider frame that is that in some

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ways it's an image also of resurrection, right, it's an

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image of basically body being pulled out of the water.

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It's an image of creation, of the first of the

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first creation, you know, when God can you know, calls

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the dry land out of the sea. So I think

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that it's that makes sense for it to be there

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at Pasca. I think there is also an image of

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the defeat of death, you know, but you can understand

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the defeat of death in many ways, sometimes as like

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spearing the monster, but also the walking on water is

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part of this idea of Christ defeating death. So I

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think that's why all of these images come together, so

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you can understand it, like just in the same way

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that all the images of the body are often associated

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with the passions, because of the fact that the body

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tends to pull our attention towards it and then can

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kind of enslave our attention in ways in different ways.

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But then the body is also is also positive, right,

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It is also the gathering of matter towards purpose and stuff.

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So I think in this case what we're seeing is

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of course the positive aspect of the symbolism, which is

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the gathering of the pop potential. And then it appears

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as firm ground on which to celebrate the resurrection of Christ,

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you know, and then then it goes away after that.

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So to me, that's what I would That's what I

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would think, and.

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Speaker 2: I always think about.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in the in ancient Christianity, in both the

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East and the West, the thing that you read on

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Holy Saturday is the story of Jonah.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing you read on Holy Saturday.

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Speaker 1: We know they were doing this, by the way, in

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the Latin Church as well, because because Augustin writes about

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Saint Augustin writes about it. But yeah, there's there. So

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there is also I think some kind of connection here

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with the story of Jonah, right, and with the idea

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that you know, the sea monster that swallows Jonah is death, right,

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it's it's it's the Leviathan, it's death, it's all those

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different things. But then also it's the thing that that

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God made and ordained for that particular time, and you know,

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God commands it to do things right. And so I

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mean there's this there's this image in the Psalm, you know,

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talking about Leviathan, where where the idea is that.

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Speaker 2: Leviathan is is, Oh, this.

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Speaker 1: Isn't some one or three you know that the that

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God made the sea and then Leviathan to play in it, right,

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and the idea is actually that the sea is God's

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mixing bowl or just a weird people out I think

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really in Hebrew, it's like his divination cup and then

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and the Leviathan is just like his little pet goldfish,

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you know that kind of plays around in the water there, right,

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And so so we definitely see some of this here,

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you know, it's it's very much listen, we're waiting for.

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Speaker 2: God to provide. Don't worry, God will provide him for

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himself a land. See it's a little.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that all of

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that is it makes total sense, you know, like the

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idea of the land that comes out of the water.

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If you think about how at the end of the

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story of Noah they end up on a mountain, you know,

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that's also an image of like the land that comes

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out of the of the waters. But there's also some

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aspect of maybe this this strange symbolism of the idea,

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you know, how the Leviathan is defeated in the end,

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and how the sea monster, like the feast of the

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sea monster that that is there some of the Hebrew traditions,

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like the idea that Levithan is that We're actually gonna

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eat Leviathan at the end and wear the skins and all.

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Speaker 1: That's okay, this happens in this story too, So okay,

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so yeah, good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah okay.

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Speaker 3: So, uh.

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Speaker 1: The next story that I want to tell is the

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story of you'll have heard sometimes And I think we

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even put this in the thumbnail for the last video

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we did in the Life of Saint Brendan, that Saint

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Brendan gave communion to a mermaid. That's actually the really

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tame later version of the story. Okay, it's actually much

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much stranger than that. I mean, say, you know, commuting

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a mermaid. That's pretty believable for me. Yes, the thing,

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the thing, but the thing that happens in this version

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of the story, this is really something else. So they

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had not gone far from there when they found a fair,

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young maiden with golden tresses as white as snow or

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the foam of the wave, dying dead from the thrust

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of a spear which had entered between her shoulders and

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come out between her two breasts. So this young beautiful woman,

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stabbed in the back, killed, lying there dead on the ocean.

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Speaker 2: Vast was the size of the maiden. She was four.

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Speaker 1: She was one hundred feet high, wait nine feet between,

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her breasts was four feet long, and her middle finger

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seven feet long. Brendan restored her to life and baptizes

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her at once.

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Speaker 3: This is it, folks, This might just be the cumbination

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of my life's work. Join me for the Symbolism Masterclass

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this April twenty twenty five. During this course, I'll take

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you by the hand into the essentials and depths of

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symbolic thinking over six weeks and over eighteen hours of

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lectures and Q and as in a concise and COMPREHENSI

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I'll teach you everything about how I think, so that

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by the end you might see the world anew. This

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class will not only be an introduction, but also a

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deep dive into a way of seeing that cuts right

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through our secular dead end. It reconnects the ancient religious

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ideas with some of the most cutting edge notions of

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complexity developed today. As the world is shaking and changing

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at an increasingly rapid pace, being able to read the

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patterns of reality will give you an anchor and a

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solid sense of what is up and what is down.

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In this class, we will talk about so many things

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about heaven and Earth, the sacred and the secular, the Bible, dragons.

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Speaker 4: Demons, fairies. Will explore the surprising value of conspiracy theories,

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how symbolic patterns are found in movies and science philosophy.

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Art will look at the relationship of symbolism to natural selection.

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We'll look at the basic patterns of the world of sacrifice,

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of the center, the margin, the masculine, the feminine, the mountain,

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time and space, left and right. It will be a

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synthesis of everything I've covered in the five hundred YouTube

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videos that put out over the years, and much more

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as well, now all in a structure that has one purpose,

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which is to make you a master of symbolic thinking.

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what symbolism is, to ask questions, to test out your ideas,

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and to make sure you have a strong foundation of

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the fundamentals. Plus getting some hidden gems that I'd never

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're missing that part. We're missing the giant part.

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Speaker 2: Huh uh, huh uh huh.

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Speaker 1: He asked her further of her race, and she said,

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I am of the dwellers of the seat. So she's

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not described here as a mermaid. Yeah, but she is

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a kind of like a like you say, like an unan.

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Speaker 2: She's some kind of a giant.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't say that she has.

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Speaker 1: Tailored yeah, yeah, yeah, And you'd think that they would

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mention that in the description, which is like fairly exact.

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Otherwise there's no tail mentioned. But she is a giant

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from the depths of the sea. She's like, uh, she's

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like a titan, right, like a scene of something like that. Right,

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And he asked further for race. She said, I am

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of the dwellers at the sea, said she the folk

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who pray and and entreat for resurrection.

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Speaker 2: What so, what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: What she's a remainder from before the flood? Is that

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what she's saying, that seems to be what she is?

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Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: And I just want the audience to know that Jonathan

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had a chance to look at notes before this, like

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so that he would be prepared for this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, we'll just go I am not.

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Speaker 3: Prepared for any of this. Oh God. So they're suggesting

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that she is Anaphroliam from before the flood, and that

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she is she has this desire for to return like

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she had the desire to be saved. Basically that she

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So this is.

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Speaker 1: The thing, the thing about you could say like fairies

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or fay creatures, you know, whatever they are, the monsters,

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the fairies, the the she in Celtic storytelling, this is

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the thing that they're always really concerned about, which is.

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Speaker 2: Is there salvation for me?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: There's a there's a famous.

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Speaker 1: Collection of of of eyewitness accounts of people who ran

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into fairies, you know, and then you know, somebody went

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around and collected all the stories. And the question the

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fairies always have whenever they meet a Christian is is

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you know, is there you know? Can't can we be saved?

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Can we be baptized? Is a you know? Can we

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be resurrected? And the answer to this question usually is no,

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that can't be known until the day of jol.

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Speaker 3: But Brendan seems to be like, no, we're good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but but I mean, like I Brendan is doing this.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna resurrect the dead. She's dead. It's not like

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you found her in trouble or she was dead.

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Speaker 1: And if she's a giant from the I mean, we're

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sort of reading in here. But I mean, like if

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she's like a giant from before the flood or whatever,

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you'd have to be like, well, she's dead.

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Speaker 2: Who killed her?

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Speaker 3: Like you know, hear a big spear cross, you know,

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coming from heaven. No fearcing her through her back.

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Speaker 1: So Brandon baptizes her and then asks her this. He says,

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do you want to go to heaven or do you

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want to go back to your own country? Do you

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want to go to Heaven at once, which would mean

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you die now, or do you want to go back

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to your own country there's like back to wherever you know,

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the deeps, you know, which is also hell, and you know, like,

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where do you want to go?

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Speaker 2: And she answered in a.

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Speaker 1: Language which no one but Brendan understood, mm hmm, and

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said to Heaven in truth, said she, for I hear

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the voices of the angels praising together the Mighty Lord.

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And so after receiving the body and blood of Christ,

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she died there without a struggle and was buried honorably

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by Brendan.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and that's that is the.

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Speaker 3: Story, yes, and why that's some wild stuff? Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah,

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And we thought Saint Christopher had all that and it's like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's obviously like that's an insane story.

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And I would like caution people against you know, trying

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to take this to your priests and take me sure. Yeah, yeah,

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like like don't you know, probably like probably don't put

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this in like you know, make an icon and put

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it in your church out there, unless you live in

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Ethiopia where you can probably get away with it.

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Speaker 2: But the rest of the episodes is gonna be.

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Speaker 3: John Yeah, wow, but this is this is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the the thing to maybe mentioned is

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that this is right after they met, they ran into

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like big whirlpools, like big burling, boiling whirlpool pools which

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threaten to kind of like suck them down, which you know,

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feels like a moment from.

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Speaker 2: The Odyssey a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then right after that is when the devil shows

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up to Brendan's boat. And the devil shows up to

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Brendan's boat and settles on the mast in front of Brendan.

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Only Brendan can see him, and Brendan, it says, Brendan

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then asked the devil why he had come before his

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proper time, that is, before the time of the resurrection

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of the Day of Judgment, So there is direction. The

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day of the resurrection is like the It's the big

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thing that is looming all throughout the life of Saint Brendan.

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Speaker 2: That's the big thing everyone is looking forward to.

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Speaker 1: So whenever somebody says they're going to die, or they

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want to ask Brendan, where are they going to die,

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what they will say is where will I have my

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resurrection right, which is to say, like, this is the

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place my body is going to wait until the resurrection.

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The devil said at once, to be tortured in the

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depths of this black, dark sea, am I come? Brandon

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then asked him, how so where is that infernal place?

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Sad is that, said the devil, that no one can

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see it and survive. However, the devil showed Brendan the

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door of hell, and he saw its pains and miseries.

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Then his company asked the holy Monk who art they

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talking with? Said they Brendan told them what he saw,

435
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and told them some small portion of the pains which

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we have said he saw, as is found in the

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writings of the Old Testament, which writings of the Old

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Testament which talk about the pains of hell, you ask,

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this is probably the Book of Knock.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I say, like, where is it?

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Speaker 2: Which is?

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Speaker 1: Which is definitely uh, kind of part of the Old

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Testament in Ireland at this time, at least as far

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as we can tell, the pains of hell are not

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actually described in in the Old Testaments, unless you want

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to say, maybe in the Psalms, but then in that case,

447
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usually they would just say the psalms, like the psalms

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are kind of their own thing, all right, Then, said

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one of his company to Brendan, let me see some

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of those pains. On being permitted to see the varied

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pains of hell, he died forthwith and said, as he expired, woe. Woe,

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said he for all who have come and come and

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shall come into this prison. Thereupon Brendan prayed and restored

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to life his companion who had died. So this is

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the story that comes right before, and it says they

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had not gone far from there when they found the

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fair young Maiden.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so, but the order is this is before the mermaid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is before they find the sea giantess or whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's after the way story. Yeah, yeah, are you skipping

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stories or are they actually this?

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Speaker 1: I am skipping a in this particular case, it's whale story, Whirlpools.

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Devil shows us the pains of Hell which are in

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the depths of the sea, and then then we meet

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the Giantess, who is from the people who live in

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the depths of the sea. And so especially like with

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the sort of like the the Enochian background to this,

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I think there's zero chance that this isn't supposed to

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be a reference to someone one of the giants from.

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Speaker 3: Boards, because it just yeah, it all.

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Speaker 2: Foes in and it yeah wow. So that's you know,

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And I do want to say, I.

473
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,599
Speaker 1: Don't think that this story would have happened in Ireland, right.

474
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,880
This is the sort of thing, you know, that could

475
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,359
only happen out on the sea, right, in this kind

476
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,640
of this liminal place.

477
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: In America, in America, Richard on the Way to America.

478
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: On the Way to America.

479
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but definitely. I mean, I think it's important to

480
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,680
notice how coherent a lot of the images are in

481
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,160
this sense of what it is to that's right on

482
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,079
the ocean, and what it is to be not only

483
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,559
sailing on the ocean, but sailing west towards the edge

484
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,759
of the world, and how all of these these ideas

485
00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:22,920
of both, you know, this notion of a kind of

486
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,400
new creation with the whale coming out on the resurrection.

487
00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:28,839
At the same time, the idea of this this monster

488
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,519
that's lost in the on the edge of the world

489
00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:34,000
that is a remainder of the old world but is

490
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:38,519
also being saved and resurrected. And the devil as well.

491
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:40,119
I mean, the idea that the devil is in the

492
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,000
west is not a is not that it is not

493
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:44,279
that ridiculous.

494
00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: Right, The devil's in the west. Hell is at the

495
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:46,440
bottom of the sea.

496
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

497
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: But also, like you know, when when Brendan.

498
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: So, so, okay, this is like a poorly formed thought,

499
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,400
but let me try to put it out there for you.

500
00:26:56,559 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: So there's this thing where Brendan is he's meeting this.

501
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: Woman and it's not clear if they meet her on

502
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,119
an island or if she's just sort of floating in

503
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,480
the water, right, But she's from the depths of the sea, which,

504
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,119
as we've just established, is where the door to Hell is, right,

505
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:16,960
which is good biblical imagery as well.

506
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:20,519
Speaker 2: So we have this door to Hell.

507
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:26,599
Speaker 1: And then there's you know, Heaven up there, Hell down here,

508
00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:29,200
and there's nothing really in between because we're just on

509
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,079
the water. But the thing that we meet is is

510
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,039
sort of like one of these sort of in between creatures, right,

511
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:36,559
she's like some kind of a monster.

512
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: In this case, she's a giant.

513
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: In later versions of the story she's a mermaid, or

514
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,000
at least that's a vision, you know, a version that's

515
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,599
entered popular legend. But there's you know, you could I mean,

516
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,559
the idea of like a giantess who like lives at

517
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:54,319
the bottom of the sea is a pretty common image

518
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:58,640
in seafaring cultures, especially in northern Europe. And so she's

519
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,599
she's from a race of people who have been imprisoned

520
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:05,119
in hell. That seems to be the case. And so

521
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,480
then Brendan basically gives her the option like where do

522
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,759
you want to go? But you can't stay in the

523
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:12,839
middle anymore, Like it seems to be something like that

524
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,119
the fairy thing really bothers people, like like people, people

525
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,279
are always wanting to know, like what's to do with fairies?

526
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,799
Speaker 2: Do they really exist? I mean? And the thing to

527
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,480
understand is that that question is what a fairy is?

528
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, like people, people, you know, and

529
00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:33,599
and and so people will kind of object to this, and.

530
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,599
Speaker 3: Even the idea of fries asking whether or not they

531
00:28:35,599 --> 00:28:39,440
can be saved is being something like what fairies actually exist?

532
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:42,119
Speaker 1: That's right, right exactly, because in the end that's actually

533
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,240
it's between existence and non existence, that's right. So there's

534
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:48,400
always The funny thing is that, you know, whenever you know,

535
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,799
I've definitely seen you know, clergy you know, sort of

536
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:55,079
roll their eyes. Oh this question again, Why are people

537
00:28:55,119 --> 00:28:57,960
asking this? This is probably Jonathan Pego's fault. People are

538
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:04,279
asking these questions and uh, and well, nothing nothing is really,

539
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,119
you know, nothing could There's no such thing as an

540
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,039
in between thing, right, that's right, And that is actually

541
00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:15,880
always the answer that in the stories the clergy tell.

542
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:17,079
Speaker 2: That's what they always tell the fairy.

543
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know, that's that's the right, that's the

544
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:23,039
right answer for a priest to give to that question.

545
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 3: Yea. The problem is that I think that that's right.

546
00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:27,079
The best way to think about it is I think

547
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,200
that that's true. I could say something like there's no

548
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:34,319
such thing as an in between thing in the Eskaton, right,

549
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,440
but to not. But now, sadly we deal with that,

550
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:40,839
We deal with that that that problem, like we deal

551
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,680
with the idea that there's no judgment yet, there's no

552
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:46,640
final judgment in order to put things in there completely

553
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,279
in their place. And so we we deal with in

554
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:52,079
some ways that it's a consequence of sin. The idea

555
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:54,839
of unformed things or malformed things or things that are

556
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:57,839
half formed is a consequence of sin, because that's what

557
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:01,480
sin is. That it's basically not hitting the target, not

558
00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:06,680
you know, not having a clear identity or having a mitigated

559
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:11,400
or a confused identity. So so we have to know

560
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,519
how to deal with this stuff, you know, in the

561
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,200
in the world and so and in the scriptures, there

562
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,359
are stories that talk about this. You know, the story

563
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,079
of the the saving of the Mermaid, you know, is

564
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,920
really the story of the saving of the Ethiopian eunuch

565
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,400
in in the in the story in the acts, because

566
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,160
it's very similar, and it happens, you know, it happens

567
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,480
on the edge, and this encounter with a man who

568
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,640
is from very far away, who looks very different from us,

569
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,880
but is also castrated, and so it is like a

570
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,000
kind of uh, like a half a man, half a man,

571
00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:49,799
or a confused like a confused identity, you know, and

572
00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:52,519
then the whole story of it going into the water

573
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,119
and then Philip, you know, disappearing into the heavens like

574
00:30:55,599 --> 00:31:00,359
Elijah and leaving behind this this this bee. It's like

575
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,920
kind of like the garment of skin, like this this being,

576
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,759
who's there? All of this is what that story is about.

577
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:09,319
And so we have several stories in scripture, but then

578
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,880
of course the Saint Christopher story as well that talk

579
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,319
about how, you know, what is the role of these

580
00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:21,079
intermediary things in the meantime, you know, before the last judgment.

581
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:25,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, anyway, so I think what you said is

582
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,359
really important, and I just want to emphasize it. It's

583
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,599
that these episodes seem like they're just random things, but

584
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,200
if you just take them together, it's very clear that

585
00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:38,680
part of this cohesive picture of life and death and

586
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,279
the resurrection and Easter and Hell and heaven and like

587
00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:46,680
kind of all of these opposites, you know, with Brendan

588
00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:49,440
kind of being the thing that it is in there

589
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,519
in between all of them, mediating them, you know, which

590
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:54,279
is what, which is what saints do?

591
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's also I mean, I think the one

592
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,960
thing too to understand is that in some ways think

593
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,519
about how when Adam names the animals, you have to

594
00:32:01,599 --> 00:32:04,920
understand the when the animal presents itself to Adam. In

595
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,759
some ways, it is it is a it is not

596
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,680
completely formed. If there's something listening to it, it's it

597
00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:14,519
is a question. You know, it's presenting itself, but it

598
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,079
still needs to be named and to be stabilized. And

599
00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:22,880
so we can understand that. That's why humans we struggle

600
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,559
with the monster. We've lost in some ways the God

601
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,200
given capacity to fully be able to do that, to

602
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:31,319
always mediate God, to mediate reality, to be able to

603
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,559
name things. So and so we have these we have

604
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,359
in some ways, like I said, a consequence of sin,

605
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,519
which is that now sometimes we have to face things

606
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,160
that are ambiguous and don't and aren't clear. But this

607
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:43,480
is a temporary thing. You know, at the end of

608
00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:47,759
time there, you know, the sea becomes glass and and

609
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,839
all identity becomes everything becomes a reflection of the divine order.

610
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:58,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's some more weird stories, uh, that happen.

611
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,039
Speaker 3: On the.

612
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:05,799
Speaker 1: There's a couple of more things that happened to Brendan.

613
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:08,079
They're not very long, and I won't get into them

614
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,000
right now, but they have to do with I mean,

615
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:14,079
they just have to do with sweet water and bitter water,

616
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:16,119
and they have to do it dry. Well, okay, let's

617
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:16,759
just talk about it.

618
00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: It's important. This is good stuff.

619
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:19,319
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, all right.

620
00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: So the first thing we find the next place that

621
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:25,599
we go is we find this beautiful island, very lofty,

622
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:29,759
but no harbor in which to land. So Brendan's company

623
00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:33,599
decides to They tried to decide to kind of coast

624
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,079
around the island for a week see if they can

625
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,279
find a place to land. They're not able to. But

626
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:39,640
it says that while they're doing this, they hear in

627
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,599
it in the island that they can't land on the

628
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,480
voices of men praising the Lord, and they see in

629
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:49,119
it a fair and noble church. So after hearing the

630
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,480
sound of the voice of the island folks, Brendan and

631
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:57,279
his company slept a spiritual sleep and as they were

632
00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:01,039
not admitted to the island. A waxed tablet. This is

633
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:04,720
a weird detail, by the way, a waxed tablet. There's

634
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,839
not a lot of writing in this story, but usually

635
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,599
when there is, you come across a book. This is

636
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,960
like a wax tablet, which is something you would use

637
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,639
to do.

638
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: Your draft work on.

639
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 3: Right.

640
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: A wax tablet was let down to them with writing

641
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,199
on it to this effect, labor not to enter this island,

642
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,599
for you will never enter it. But the island which

643
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:26,039
you seek, that's remember. They're looking for paradise you shall find,

644
00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:28,480
and this is not it. Depart to thine own land,

645
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,280
o Brendan. That is, go back to Ireland, for there

646
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,599
are many seeking THEE, who would fain see Thee and

647
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,199
search the holy scriptures in which it is said many

648
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,360
are the mansions of God, as if it said many

649
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,800
places and abodes has the Lord beside this island. And

650
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,000
after this they turn away from the island, taking with

651
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:48,280
them that wax tablet is a sign of the island

652
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,800
folks welcome and care for them. And it was read

653
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,079
aloud to them every day, as if it had been

654
00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:55,840
from God that it was sent to them. So it's

655
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,480
this idea that there's something wholly going on here, but

656
00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:01,719
it's not something Brendan and his men are meant to

657
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,719
have a part of. And so it's sort of like,

658
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,960
you know, don't worry about what we're doing. We're not

659
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,440
what you're looking for. You know, actually go back to

660
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,000
your own homeland. But then eventually you are going to

661
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,760
find the thing. What you see which is the earthly paradise.

662
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: This is really interesting, especially if it's compared to the

663
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,960
other stories. And so you could say that in this

664
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:26,599
case that this identity, like this world that is appearing

665
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:30,519
to them because it doesn't have it doesn't have a

666
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:33,480
way in. There's no border, like, there's no there's no

667
00:35:33,519 --> 00:35:36,880
buffer between that and where they are. So because that

668
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,119
they can't they can't access it. There's no port. Yeah,

669
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,559
there's no way in. And so it has a kind

670
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:45,599
of completeness to it, but it's completely unavailable to them

671
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:48,239
because it's separate, like it's a thing that's separate from

672
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,920
their their world. And so it's interesting because in some

673
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,199
ways it can show you a little bit the positive

674
00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:01,559
aspect of the intermediary, like the need for an intermediary

675
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:04,480
because without it, without some kind of access to the outside,

676
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,360
and there's no there's no possibility of community, of having communion,

677
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,639
there's no possibility of communication or of dealing with them.

678
00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:15,880
And so and I love how the wax habit is

679
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,840
super interesting. It's almost saying like, you know, we're a

680
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,880
complete thing in itself, like we're one of the mansions

681
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,679
in God's kingdom. We're just not yours. And you don't

682
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,920
have access to us, and basically go find your thing,

683
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:32,039
but and don't worry about us. We're good. We're good, Yeah,

684
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,960
super opty.

685
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,639
Speaker 1: Probably some lessons that could be taken from that as

686
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:41,559
we you know, as we interact with each other as Christians,

687
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:44,719
especially in the on the internet and especially you know,

688
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,000
just constantly worrying about what other people are up to

689
00:36:47,039 --> 00:36:48,679
and what they're doing and all those things.

690
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also I think the idea that how can

691
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,599
I say this, like the idea that they're okay, this

692
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:00,320
is the best way to think about it. The idea

693
00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:03,599
is that there's a fullness in the fullness in what

694
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:07,760
we participate in doesn't mean that there is no fullness

695
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,440
anywhere else. It just means that it's not like, can

696
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,360
I say this, like, it doesn't take away from the

697
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,360
fullness of the things we participate in if we can

698
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,599
see from afar that there's a kind of fullness that

699
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:22,519
isn't connected to ours. Right, So the idea is what

700
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:24,599
I'm trying to get to is something like we know

701
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,039
that the Holy Spirit is in the church and the

702
00:37:27,119 --> 00:37:29,880
Holy Spirit works, but that doesn't mean that God is

703
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,079
not present in other places, that there are that that

704
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:35,519
are mysterious and not available to us, you know.

705
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, I mean.

706
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: The fact that this is what they run into right

707
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,480
after they run into the giantess is also you know,

708
00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:47,840
because like who knows actually what's on that island?

709
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: You know?

710
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: Is this more?

711
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 3: You know it?

712
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: It almost seems if I had to hazard a guess,

713
00:37:58,519 --> 00:38:00,559
I would say that whatever is on that island is

714
00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:05,920
not actually human mm hmm, like it like everybody that

715
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,000
we run into in this whole section of the story

716
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,119
is either an angel or a demon or something you

717
00:38:12,159 --> 00:38:15,960
know in between. But we don't run into any humans, yeah,

718
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,199
in this part of the voyage. And if I had

719
00:38:18,199 --> 00:38:20,199
to guess, if I had to guess, that's what I

720
00:38:20,199 --> 00:38:20,760
would say.

721
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: We're meant to understand there.

722
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: But I mean it's you know, that's just a guess,

723
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,159
because the whole point is whatever is here, it's not

724
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:27,400
for you.

725
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: Don't worry about it.

726
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, go home, read the scriptures and and just you know,

727
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,559
except that except that there are things that God has

728
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:40,440
for you that aren't here.

729
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I think that. I think it's a great

730
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:46,599
even in terms of understanding how reality works. It's such

731
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:49,559
a great image, you know, and it's Also it's a

732
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:54,199
great image to understand how exactly like the idea that

733
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,800
the capacity we have to define things does not encompass

734
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,360
them completely. You know, there there are types of identities

735
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,599
and types of intelligences that that we don't necessarily master

736
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,960
or that we don't have access to, and it and

737
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,320
that's also like, okay, it's okay. We can also just

738
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,840
let them be, you know, in you know, in the

739
00:39:18,079 --> 00:39:20,800
in the in God's Dog. We have this idea about

740
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,559
the monsters, like we say there are three kinds of monsters, right,

741
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:25,840
the kind you kill, the kind you tame, and the

742
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,280
kind you leave alone. And I feel like this is

743
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,360
a version of that, but not in terms of monsters,

744
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,840
in terms of identities or worlds. Like there are worlds

745
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,599
that that you can encounter, right, there are worlds that

746
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,239
you can that can defeat you or that you can defeat.

747
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,960
But there are also worlds that are just not They're

748
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,079
just not available to you.

749
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not available to you.

750
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's okay, yep.

751
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,039
Speaker 1: I think it's part of the the temptation of modernity,

752
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:55,119
and this is really part of the spirit of Babbel,

753
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,000
is this desire to try to make everything everything integrate

754
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:02,800
everything cohere, like gather everything into one place under one

755
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:07,679
you know, and that's a that's obviously that's something that

756
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,239
will be in the escaton, yeah, you know, like it'll

757
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,280
be there in the resurrection, but if we try to

758
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,280
do it under our own steam, then it you know,

759
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,239
it's that's what the mark of the Beast is.

760
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 3: And there's something I think there's something really relevant right now,

761
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,280
like in terms of the whole psychedelics question, like that

762
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:26,800
idea of what it is that they encounter, what the

763
00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:31,119
experience they have there where they can see the coherence

764
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,559
of a world, but basically it's not their world, then

765
00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:38,000
there's no way in. And in some ways they just

766
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:40,280
have to go back, go back to your world and

767
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,679
go back to your thing, and don't don't worry about it,

768
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:43,920
you know.

769
00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. All right.

770
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: So the last thing that happens before Brendan's first voyage ends.

771
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:53,480
It says they're out on the ocean rowing when a

772
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:57,119
violent thirst seizes them so that they well nigh died.

773
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,440
Then they saw fair streams of water distilling and dropping

774
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,360
from the crags. The Brethren asked, may we drink some

775
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,320
of yonder water? Said they bless it first said Brendan

776
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,840
to ascertain what it is. When they had blessed the

777
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,440
water enchanted allelujah over it, which by the way, is

778
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,599
also how we bless the water for baptism in the

779
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,920
Eastern Church. I don't know what they would have done

780
00:41:16,039 --> 00:41:19,159
at this time, although there's some weird Greek liturgy references

781
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:20,159
in the story, which we'll get to.

782
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: In a minute.

783
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,119
Speaker 1: But they they bless the water, they chant Allelujah over it,

784
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:25,800
and then the streams dried up at once, and they

785
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,679
saw the devil darting from the water, and he would

786
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,960
kill all who drank of it. Thus were Brendan's company

787
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,639
saved by his power, and their thirst vanished at once,

788
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:36,119
and the place was closed upon the devil, that he

789
00:41:36,199 --> 00:41:38,519
might do no harm to any man thenceforth.

790
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: So it's like the island sort of swallows the devil up.

791
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah, it's it's a for

792
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,559
another version of the story we just saw, but in

793
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:52,760
the sense that this one is negative like the other one.

794
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,480
It's more like the here's a here are some possibilities,

795
00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:58,119
here's a world that exists, like type of coherence. It's

796
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:00,280
just not yours, Like, just don't bother with it. Go

797
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,800
do your thing and be content with what you have.

798
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,280
And here it's actually an island or a world that

799
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:11,280
its sources poison to you, like it will it will

800
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,199
actually destroy you.

801
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then there's some interesting kind of baptismal imagery

802
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,599
there again, like one of the things we do to

803
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:22,280
prepare water for baptism is to bless it and to

804
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,920
basically sort of kick the devil out of the waters, right,

805
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,239
which is this very ancient idea which which you have here,

806
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,920
which you've actually seen, we've seen kind of multiple times here.

807
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,599
Speaker 3: The idea is that it's only the devil. So once

808
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,000
they kick the devil out of the waters, the water

809
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,480
goes away, it basically shrivels up.

810
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 2: But also they're not thirsty anymore afterwards.

811
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: So think about it. We could we could take a

812
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:45,559
lot of the stories that we just heard and we

813
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:48,599
can interpret them through baptism, right, which is in some

814
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:51,719
ways the idea of certain things that are encountered in

815
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,159
the world. And we say, we say Christianity baptizes other cultures,

816
00:42:56,159 --> 00:42:59,079
like we say that, but the idea would be something

817
00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:00,559
like there are some things called.

818
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,519
Speaker 1: Floppy language, and it annoys me, but we'll go with it.

819
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but you've heard that right. Yeah, you can imagine,

820
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,159
you can think that there are some things that can

821
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,880
be baptized and come out of the waters. There are

822
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:16,000
some things that that are just completely separate, like that

823
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:18,880
are not related to the question at all. And there

824
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,000
are some things that.

825
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: Can be that you can't integrate.

826
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that just stay in the water. They are basically

827
00:43:26,159 --> 00:43:30,199
a poisonous source for the world that you're participating.

828
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.

829
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: I mean this conversation is really helping me see the

830
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,000
way those four stories are all.

831
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: Really compared with each other.

832
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's great.

833
00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: So Brendon has been on the water at this point

834
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,440
for either five or seven years, and he makes it

835
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:48,320
back and with the instructions in the wax tablet, he

836
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,480
turns around goes back to Ireland. Importantly, interesting things don't

837
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,119
happen to you on the way back home. They only

838
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:56,119
happen to you on the way out. So he gets

839
00:43:56,159 --> 00:43:57,880
back to Ireland pretty quickly.

840
00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 2: And he makes it back.

841
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: He goes to first his foster father, who's an abbot,

842
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,519
and then he goes to Ita, his foster mother, who

843
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:11,119
is a nun and was basically the woman that raised him.

844
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,880
And he goes to her for counsels. She seems to

845
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,079
be a very wise woman. This is not the first

846
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:18,440
or the last time Brennan will go to her for counsel.

847
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:23,639
And he basically says, what should I do? I tried

848
00:44:23,639 --> 00:44:26,800
to get to the earthly paradise. It's not happening. And so,

849
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,960
of course, after Itta has greeted him as one would

850
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,320
have greeted Christ and his apostles if they showed up.

851
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:36,239
This is how in the Irish hagiography. This is how.

852
00:44:36,119 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 3: You make it.

853
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:38,559
Speaker 1: This is how you say you've made a big deal

854
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:40,559
over somebody. When they show up, you greet them as

855
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:43,639
you would greet Christ and his apostles themselves if they

856
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:45,760
showed up. That's the kind of feasting, that's the kind

857
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,400
of merriment, that's the kind of hospitality. And then she says, Ah,

858
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,920
dearly beloved son, why did you go out on your

859
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:57,199
journey without taking counsel from me? For the country you

860
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,000
are seeking from God you'll never find on these dead

861
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,840
soft skins, that is, on these skin boats you've been

862
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,679
sailing in. For it is a holy and consecrated land,

863
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,800
and no blood of men was ever shed in it.

864
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:14,519
Speaker 2: I knew you're gonna like this part.

865
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: And so she says, let timbermoat timber boats be made

866
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,840
by thee and belike thou wilt find that land on

867
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,199
this wise. Thereupon Brendan went into the region of Kannach,

868
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,320
and an excellent large boat was made by him, and

869
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,800
he embarked with his company and people, and they took

870
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,199
various herbs and seeds to store the boat withal, and

871
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,880
the rights and smiths who had prayed Brendan to let

872
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,679
them go with him. So Brendan finds out that the

873
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:47,119
reason he couldn't find paradise is because you can't get

874
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:49,159
to paradise on a boat of skin.

875
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, ah wow, I mean that's amazing for those who

876
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,000
know that. Of course, the story of Moses and San

877
00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:58,360
Gregor NIS's telling of the Life of Moses, that taking

878
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:00,719
the removing of the garments of skin is such an

879
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,480
important part of going into Paradise, just as Adam and

880
00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:07,079
Eve put on garments of skin in order to be

881
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:09,239
protected outside in the world of the fault, you know,

882
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,599
in order to go back into the holy place, you

883
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:14,800
have to remove the garments of skin, especially image as

884
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,280
the sandals, right, these skins that you wear under your

885
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,199
feet that Moses removes when he goes into the Holy Place.

886
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:23,440
And so it's a wonderful image. And also what's interesting

887
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,280
about it is it also seems to refer, you know,

888
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,239
to the Arc, you know, to some extent, because it

889
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,960
emphasizes the fact that he builds a boat, but then

890
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,400
he gathers these people and these things and these seeds

891
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:43,599
into the arc, you know. And also it's funny because

892
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:45,679
in the Gilgamet version of the Ark, that's what happens,

893
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,639
right in the Gilgamet version, it's not just animals, but

894
00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:53,320
it's explicitly says that he brings craftsmen and all the

895
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,239
different crafts like a representative all the different crafts get

896
00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:58,280
gathered into the arc as well.

897
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: I hope that people are paying attention to.

898
00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: How do I say this, the stuff that you and

899
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,039
your brother have been talking about for years. You didn't

900
00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:13,519
just like make that stuff up one day. Like it's

901
00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:17,480
so fundamental to the pattern of the world that you

902
00:47:17,559 --> 00:47:21,000
find it in every single ancient story, right, and so

903
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,119
even basic things like well, obviously you can't get to

904
00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:28,119
Paradise wearing your garments of skin, but also this idea

905
00:47:28,159 --> 00:47:32,039
that you could build something like you could build an arc.

906
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:32,559
Speaker 3: Right.

907
00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:34,159
Speaker 1: Of course we talk about the church, like what is

908
00:47:34,199 --> 00:47:35,960
the church? The church is the ark of salvation. So

909
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,280
what happens after this is they go back out on

910
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:43,800
the water. And the very first thing that happens, so

911
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,800
there's this note about taking the rights wr ights, I

912
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,960
like the another the craftsman, right, and the smiths who

913
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:53,639
had prayed Brenda to let them go with him, so

914
00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:55,679
they're begging him. They build them this boat and then

915
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,800
they basically say, you gotta let us come with you,

916
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,760
and he says okay. The very first thing happens they

917
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,559
once they get out on sea is that the smith

918
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,519
gets sick and he's going to die. So this is

919
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:09,280
the there, this is their blacksmith. He gets sick and

920
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,480
he's going to die. And Brendan says, basically like, you

921
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,679
shouldn't be surprised this is happening. Depart to the heavenly kingdom, right,

922
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,519
or if you want to, I'll heal you and you

923
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:26,440
can stay here like in this life. And the smith says,

924
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,039
I hear the voice of Lord calling me. So the

925
00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:32,840
smith dies and they don't have anywhere to bury him.

926
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:35,360
You know, obviously there's no island or anything like that,

927
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:37,840
And so the brothers say basically, like where are we

928
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,920
going to put this guy? And Brendan says, it's no trouble,

929
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:43,519
let's just bury him in the sea.

930
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: Now, the idea of.

931
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: Like a sea burial, you know, I think it's like

932
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,639
as kind of a given for modern people. Like if

933
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:53,079
somebody dies while you're at sea, you know, you do

934
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:56,320
the ceremony that we've all at least seen in movies, right,

935
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,239
you do the ceremony and then you toss the people

936
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,920
didn't do this in the ancient world, right, like, because

937
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:05,480
to toss the body into the sea, and like, you know,

938
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,320
it's not a Christian burial, it's not an appropriate way

939
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,280
to dispose of a body, right, so you need to

940
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,079
bury the body in land. So then the question is

941
00:49:14,119 --> 00:49:15,480
what are we going to do with this guy? And

942
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:18,199
what Brendan says is he who made the heaven and

943
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,039
the earth and the other elements has power over the

944
00:49:20,039 --> 00:49:23,760
waves of the sea to fix the corpse immovably in them.

945
00:49:24,159 --> 00:49:26,119
So then the smith who was buried among the waves

946
00:49:26,159 --> 00:49:28,519
of the sea without drifting to land, and without rising

947
00:49:28,519 --> 00:49:31,280
to the surface of the brine, without moving in any direction,

948
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,519
as if he were in the ground, as one said,

949
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,480
and I should mention there's a bunch of old Irish

950
00:49:37,519 --> 00:49:41,079
poetry interspersed all throughout the life of Saint Brendan and

951
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,079
the normal case and stories like this. This is called

952
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:48,320
prosiometrical literature, where basically you have pros and then you

953
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:48,679
have meter.

954
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,199
Speaker 2: Right, the meter.

955
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: The poetry is almost always older, and what people are

956
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,280
doing is telling the stories that people would have remembered.

957
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,039
They're writing down the stories that come between the poems, right,

958
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,239
and so we get a bit of a we get

959
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,480
a poem, and this is probably like a sixth century

960
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:08,280
Irish poem. They bury him, though it was wondrous the

961
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,760
smith in the ocean amid the waves of the wild sea,

962
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,199
without sinking under the roar of the billows. And it's

963
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,239
very clear there that the the body of the smith

964
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,679
is like buried under the waves, but not like he

965
00:50:20,679 --> 00:50:22,599
didn't sink to the body stay.

966
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 2: He's not floating around.

967
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: It's just like they buried him six feet under and

968
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,000
he kind of stays fixed in that place.

969
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: And so they.

970
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,159
Speaker 1: Bring the smith from the old world like to Paradise.

971
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,760
But then like immediately, the first thing that happens is

972
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,320
the smith gets sick and dies and they bury him

973
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,480
in the ocean, and his body sort of becomes this

974
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:47,760
fixed point, this anchor in the sea. And this is

975
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,239
important because the next thing that happens is that they

976
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,920
show up at this island and they there, you know,

977
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,840
so they drop the anchor at the island they're about

978
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,559
to unload, and then it says the harbor was filled

979
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:04,639
with demons in the shapes of dwarves and leprechauns. So

980
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,559
if you were wondering when are the leprechauns coming along,

981
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:14,199
there they are. And Brendan says, go ahead and bring

982
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,079
bring the anchor up again. Let's get out of here,

983
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:17,920
because no one can enter this land but he who

984
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,320
shall wage human war against demons and shed blood over them.

985
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:24,559
Speaker 2: And the you.

986
00:51:24,519 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: Know, the idea seems to be, like, the demons here

987
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,679
have taken this physical form, and we don't want to

988
00:51:28,679 --> 00:51:29,840
fight them with human weapons.

989
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: This is not how monks fight demons. It's a little so.

990
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 3: What is it. Let me ask you a question. What

991
00:51:36,039 --> 00:51:42,719
is the difference between a dwarf and a leprechaun. I mean,

992
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,199
I get, I have the cliche image of it. Yeah,

993
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,639
it's like the leprecaun garden, the pot of gold and stuff. Yeah,

994
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,320
I mean more of a trickster figure.

995
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the the idea you shouldn't be thinking of, like, uh,

996
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,119
you shouldn't be thinking of of when you well, well,

997
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:03,239
first of all, when you hear dwarf, you shouldn't be

998
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:10,880
thinking of like dwarves from like Middle Earth, like Tolkien dwarves, right,

999
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,360
you know, dwarf. Here is is something like if there's

1000
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:20,960
a difference between like elves, dwarves leprechauns in the you know,

1001
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,559
at this particular time right in the sixth century or whatever,

1002
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,840
it's not really at all clear to us. So the

1003
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,440
but the but you know, but the idea is like

1004
00:52:30,519 --> 00:52:32,960
dwarves are this thing that are kind of from under

1005
00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:38,840
the sea, and then whereas a leprechaun is the sort

1006
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,280
of faery that will like.

1007
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 3: If you.

1008
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,079
Speaker 1: I said dwarves, dwarves, like dwarves live under the earth

1009
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:49,039
and they do the forging, right, So in that sense

1010
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:51,280
they're like Tolkien swarves, but also not really at all

1011
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,440
like Tolken dwarves because they can shape shift and their

1012
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:54,840
tricksters and all these other things.

1013
00:52:56,039 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 2: But then leprechauns are.

1014
00:52:59,199 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: They are a kind of spirit or like fairy associated

1015
00:53:02,039 --> 00:53:08,039
with the sea and they can, uh, you know, the

1016
00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:10,400
the classic stories that you sort of fall asleep on

1017
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,199
the beach and then the fairy and then you wake

1018
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,679
up and then leprechauns are dragging you into the into

1019
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,280
the ocean. But if you can capture them, then you

1020
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:19,840
get the wishes, you know. So that part of the

1021
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,039
story is pretty old, but you know, like the pot

1022
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:22,760
of Gold, little.

1023
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 2: Green Jacket, all that stuff, much.

1024
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 3: Much a little later. Yeah.

1025
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: So, so, but the question here is like is it

1026
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,320
really fairies or is it demons that look like fairies,

1027
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,639
because there's demons in the shapes of dwarves and leprechauns

1028
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,800
opposing them, and people sometimes seem to have the idea that, okay,

1029
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,559
well that you could either say fairies are this in

1030
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:46,679
between thing or they're always demons. But in this story

1031
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,159
it really seems like sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the

1032
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:49,599
other thing.

1033
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely it makes sense in terms of experience,

1034
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:59,159
you know, because that's demons are always represented also as

1035
00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:02,360
an as a intermediary thing because then in some ways

1036
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,320
something that has no substance which suddenly has substance, like

1037
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:09,360
the aspect of their demon aspect, which is the negative

1038
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:14,559
aspect of principality, is manifesting itself. But how is that possible? Like,

1039
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:17,840
how does evil have body? How does evil have being?

1040
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:20,920
It's not supposed to. But then that's the strange thing

1041
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,320
about the twisting and the fall. So it's in the

1042
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,920
way we represent demons in the Western tradition especially, is

1043
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,760
as these ambiguous kind of hybrid creatures that have different

1044
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,360
parts of different animals and stuff.

1045
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: So they maybe they want to they want to steal

1046
00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:36,320
you away, or they want to steal your soul away,

1047
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:41,159
or but also like there is an association about the dwarves,

1048
00:54:41,679 --> 00:54:43,719
you know, between the dwarves and like, you know, the

1049
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,280
craft of smithing, and they've just lost their smith, right,

1050
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,519
And so what happens is they're trying to get away

1051
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:52,679
from the harbor, but their anchor won't come up. So

1052
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,639
eventually Brendan, like after seven days of trying to get

1053
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:57,960
out of the harbor, things are just getting worse, and

1054
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,840
Brendan says, all right, just cut the anchor, let's get

1055
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,639
out here. So they cut the anchor, but then of

1056
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:03,559
course that means they're in real trouble. Out of the

1057
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:07,440
open sea. And they don't can't make a new anchor, yeah,

1058
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:12,480
because the smith is dead. And so what Brendan does

1059
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:16,199
is that he blesses the hands of one of the

1060
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:17,239
priests that's on the.

1061
00:55:17,159 --> 00:55:18,119
Speaker 2: Ship with him.

1062
00:55:18,519 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: And the priest, even though he's never worked metal at

1063
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,360
all in his life, Brendan blesses his hands.

1064
00:55:25,159 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 2: And then he's able to forge a new anchor for

1065
00:55:27,039 --> 00:55:27,400
the ship.

1066
00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: I know, it seems like all these things it kind of.

1067
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 3: You know, you can see how it makes sense, like

1068
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,519
there's something there's definitely something about like you said that.

1069
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: And the way the smith's body becomes sort of like

1070
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,880
this anchor anchor, like an island in the sea, and

1071
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,280
then they lose their anchor, but then they have this

1072
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,840
new one forged for them, and you know, but it's

1073
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,280
made for them by the hands of this priest. Like so,

1074
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,880
I mean, it's so strange, but also like it it

1075
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:57,800
feels like it's.

1076
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it has something to do with it has something

1077
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,440
to do with with the Yeah, it has something to

1078
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:13,880
do with the capacity to encounter all of this, like

1079
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,519
the possibility because the thing is that also related to

1080
00:56:17,559 --> 00:56:20,079
the Book of Enoch and to the idea of the

1081
00:56:20,159 --> 00:56:23,000
in between world. You know, the the smith is always

1082
00:56:23,039 --> 00:56:25,000
an image of that, right, the smith is an image

1083
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:28,840
of the of the of the descendants of Cain, you know,

1084
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,119
the Vulcan type imagery. This idea of of of an

1085
00:56:33,199 --> 00:56:36,920
in between that's why, you know, that's why Hiphestus his lame,

1086
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:40,719
because he's he's incomplete, right, he's not complete.

1087
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: Lame, He's a cripple. He's a hunchback. But not just

1088
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:49,039
not just Hephaestus, but like uh Wayland, who's like the

1089
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:52,599
northern European equivalent also like lame in one foot or

1090
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:56,320
maybe castrated, yeah you know, yeah.

1091
00:56:56,039 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, just like the Ethiopian Eunich. And so this this

1092
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:02,199
image of the in between character. But for sure, like

1093
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,119
it would be worth meditating on how this comes together,

1094
00:57:06,199 --> 00:57:08,400
Like why is it that in dying or being willing

1095
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,159
to give up his give up his soul, why does

1096
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:15,519
he become this this? Why is he held in the waters?

1097
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:18,119
And then why do they lose their anchor? And why

1098
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,199
is it now has to be a priest that becomes a.

1099
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:26,599
Speaker 2: Black that forges the new one? And it's like, yeah,

1100
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:27,480
you could say.

1101
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 3: That, yeah, the the idea of the priest forging a

1102
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,920
new anchor that you can kind of understand what it is.

1103
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,840
It's saying, you know whatever, when we get to the

1104
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:39,280
to to Paradise, that the anchor has to be something

1105
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,679
that is pure, not something that is mitigated, not something

1106
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:46,360
that's in between. It has to be like, you know,

1107
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,840
an anchor in the heart or something like that. When

1108
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,000
the anchor is also.

1109
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: This this ancient symbol of Christ, right, you know that's

1110
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,440
like one of the early palaeo Christian Christianity is like

1111
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,119
the cruciform anchor.

1112
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, but man, this one, I don't think we're going

1113
00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:02,199
to get to the bottom of it. Great for people

1114
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:04,920
to speculate in the comments and tell us how you

1115
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,199
see this coming together, because we can see it. It

1116
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:08,280
kind of glimmers through.

1117
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,079
Speaker 1: So because we're at kind of like we've been going

1118
00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:13,679
a long time, I think I'll just let me let

1119
00:58:13,679 --> 00:58:16,000
me just tell a couple of stories to kind of

1120
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,920
wrap up the voyage and think Brendan and then oh man,

1121
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,320
there's so many big like things where like they meet

1122
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,800
these sea monsters fighting and then later they you know,

1123
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,000
like the corpse of one of the sea monsters beaches

1124
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:30,119
and provides them a meal.

1125
00:58:30,199 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: So there's the whole like eating Leviathan.

1126
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: Thing, like, I mean, there's there's just there's a lot

1127
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,559
of stories where they meet two monsters. But let me

1128
00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:44,159
tell let me, let me tell the story of Okay,

1129
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:48,920
So Brendan makes it to Paradise. Brendan makes it to Paradise. Eventually,

1130
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,280
he makes it to the to Paradise as in the

1131
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:54,880
like the Earthly makes it, makes it to the Earthly

1132
00:58:54,920 --> 00:59:02,119
Paradise and he gets there and he spends some time there,

1133
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,519
and boy, I'm just skipping over so many different things.

1134
00:59:06,599 --> 00:59:07,079
Speaker 2: There's like a.

1135
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,039
Speaker 1: Giant sea cat and not sure if he's related to

1136
00:59:11,039 --> 00:59:13,079
the island of mice that we hit at the beginning

1137
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:17,960
of the voyage, but in any case, he makes them, makes.

1138
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:20,719
Speaker 2: It to the Land of Promise, makes it to Paradise, and.

1139
00:59:20,639 --> 00:59:25,119
Speaker 1: He wants to stay there and basically says, like you know,

1140
00:59:25,199 --> 00:59:27,159
he's talking, there's this hermit there who lives there in

1141
00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:30,840
paradise obviously, Oh, I mean the so paradise is it's

1142
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,960
it's beautiful in all these different ways. It's also like

1143
00:59:33,039 --> 00:59:36,639
totally silent, so you're not supposed to speak because it's

1144
00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:38,719
sort of like human speech is going to like it's

1145
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,800
going to be dangerous and so so so so Brendan

1146
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,559
and his and his monks, you know, they're enjoyed to

1147
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:46,280
kind of keep silent, and the only thing they do

1148
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,440
in Paradise is pray the hours actually, and so after

1149
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,760
the Ninth Hour, you know, like basically like after the

1150
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,880
Ninth Hour investments, Brendan finds out, okay, like you've spent

1151
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,280
one day in Paradise, like one day praying the office

1152
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:01,679
in Paradise. Now it's time for you to go back

1153
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:04,719
home because you have things you're supposed to do in Ireland.

1154
01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:07,239
Speaker 2: So so he goes back home.

1155
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,719
Speaker 3: So wait, let me just does it is there any

1156
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:13,119
idea of who the hermit is? Like, is there some

1157
01:00:13,199 --> 01:00:15,079
kind of hint of who the hermit is or what

1158
01:00:15,159 --> 01:00:15,719
he's doing there?

1159
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:21,199
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Jonathan, I'm just wondering if it's like, okay,

1160
01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:23,519
we really I mean, like the whole voyages for this,

1161
01:00:23,719 --> 01:00:26,679
we probably shouldn't skip over it. So let me let

1162
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:31,719
me tell you. There's the so many different monster stories,

1163
01:00:32,119 --> 01:00:32,760
because there's.

1164
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:35,639
Speaker 3: All these ideas of like maybe that give Shem going

1165
01:00:35,639 --> 01:00:37,840
back to Paradise and the Kisa dec like all these

1166
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,039
weird legends.

1167
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: So one day, when Brendan and his company were traversing

1168
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,840
and searching to see they happen upon the little country

1169
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,960
which they had been seeking for seven years, to wit,

1170
01:00:46,119 --> 01:00:48,800
the land of promise. As it says in the proverb,

1171
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,519
he that secret will find.

1172
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 3: They found it in the seventh year. Found it in

1173
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:53,320
the seventh year.

1174
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, when they That's that's why it seems like

1175
01:00:56,679 --> 01:00:59,960
the original, like Antenna's like first voyage five year, second

1176
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,440
voyages two years. It's so seven years total. When they

1177
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,400
came near to this land, and we reminded to take Harvard.

1178
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,239
There they heard the voice of a certain elder speaking

1179
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,880
to them and saying, oh much travailed men, Oh holy pilgrims,

1180
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,280
Oh you who look for the heavenly rewards, Oh ever

1181
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,480
toilsome life in laboring and waiting for this country, stay

1182
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:20,360
a little from your labor now. And when they had

1183
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,360
remained a little while at rest, the elder said, unto them,

1184
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,599
dear brothers in Christ, do not perceive this glorious and

1185
01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:28,039
lovely land of which never was spilt the blood of man.

1186
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:31,360
So remember like this is the whole kind of the

1187
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,199
reason they can't come in the garments of skin is

1188
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,960
because to get those you have to kill something.

1189
01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:38,679
Speaker 2: I think I think it's part of the idea. Right.

1190
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:42,159
Speaker 3: People should know that there are some tradition, the turitical traditions,

1191
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:47,039
in which you're not ever supposed to have animal parts

1192
01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:48,320
on the altar in the church.

1193
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: And so I mean that's why we don't we don't

1194
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,559
allow leather have a.

1195
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:55,639
Speaker 3: Leather book on the on the like that goes directly

1196
01:01:55,639 --> 01:01:56,239
on the altar.

1197
01:01:56,639 --> 01:01:58,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so.

1198
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: In which it is not fitting for any sinner or

1199
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,480
evildoer to be buried. By the way, the idea of

1200
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,800
burial is one of the main themes of the story.

1201
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,480
Like almost you know, a lot of the people that

1202
01:02:11,559 --> 01:02:12,760
go on the voyage with Brendan or a lot of

1203
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,679
people that run into basically we just see them at

1204
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:17,280
the moment of their death right and that's when you

1205
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,760
meet them in this So basically you know, but no

1206
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,000
sinner or evil doer can be buried here. Leave now

1207
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:25,000
everything you have on your boat except the clothes that

1208
01:02:25,039 --> 01:02:26,519
you have on you, and come up hither.

1209
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 2: So they came to land.

1210
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,039
Speaker 1: Each of them kissed the other, and the elder wept

1211
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:32,960
greatly for his exceeding joy. See and search and see,

1212
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,559
he said, the borders and regions of paradise where will

1213
01:02:36,599 --> 01:02:41,719
be found health without sickness, pleasure without contention, union without quarrel,

1214
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:47,159
dominion without interruption, attendance of angels, feasting without diminution, meadows

1215
01:02:47,159 --> 01:02:51,679
sweet incent as fair and blessed flowers happy. Indeed is

1216
01:02:51,719 --> 01:02:54,679
he whom Brendan, the son of Finnlug, shall summon hither

1217
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:57,360
to join him, said the same elder, to inhabit forever

1218
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,480
and ever the island in which we are. But when

1219
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:03,960
they saw paradise amid the waves of the sea, they

1220
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:06,480
marveled and were astonished at the wonders of God and

1221
01:03:06,519 --> 01:03:06,920
his power.

1222
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 2: When they saw these wonders.

1223
01:03:08,159 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: Now the Elder was on this wise without any human

1224
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,039
clothing at all, to get to your question, without any

1225
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:15,480
human clothing at all. But his body was covered in

1226
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,320
a white down, like a dove or a sea mew,

1227
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:22,119
which is a goal. And his speech was almost like that,

1228
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,800
almost like that of an angel. And they celebrated Tiers

1229
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,400
the third hour after the ringing of the bell, with

1230
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,519
the giving of thanks to God, and with their minds

1231
01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:33,159
fixed on God. But they did not dare to ask

1232
01:03:33,239 --> 01:03:37,320
any question, then, said the elder. Let each of you

1233
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,360
pray privately without speech, to any of any to any

1234
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,440
other of you, for this land is holy and angelic.

1235
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:48,559
And moreover, sin commonly attaches to speech. For often in

1236
01:03:48,639 --> 01:03:52,159
old world fables, is there either sorrow or idle joy,

1237
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:55,079
which are the two things that you're not allowed to

1238
01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:57,840
have in paradise. There's no sorrow and there's no idle joy.

1239
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,480
We agree in truth, said the folk. When they had

1240
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,400
remained there thus for a while, the elder came to

1241
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,760
them and said, let us celebrate the midday office, that's

1242
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,039
the sixth hour. And when they had finished celebrating the

1243
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:13,639
midday office, Brendan asked the elder, is it God's will

1244
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:16,440
for me that I should remain here until the day

1245
01:04:16,519 --> 01:04:18,880
of doom, that is the day of judgment, which again

1246
01:04:19,079 --> 01:04:20,760
the day of the judgment, the day of the resurrection,

1247
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,760
is always the day that's looming in the story. And

1248
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,679
the elder answered him this wise, he who shall seek

1249
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:29,639
his own will opposes the will of God. And it

1250
01:04:29,719 --> 01:04:33,920
is sixty years since I came hither, and the food

1251
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,679
of angels has fed me all that time, and my

1252
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,480
body is well nigh wasted away with old age. But

1253
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:41,639
it is not here that I grew old, But I

1254
01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:44,079
continue at the age that I was when I came here,

1255
01:04:44,639 --> 01:04:46,480
and Christ bade me to remain here to wait for

1256
01:04:46,519 --> 01:04:48,920
THEE another thirty years in addition to that first thirty.

1257
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,519
And now it is time for me to go to heaven,

1258
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,400
for Thou has come to me. And when you have

1259
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,599
celebrated Known, that is the ninth hour, depart to your

1260
01:04:57,639 --> 01:05:01,119
own land and instruct them of erran Is Ireland, for

1261
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:04,599
crimes and sins shall be corrected by THEE. And Christ

1262
01:05:04,639 --> 01:05:07,639
said to me at this hour of Known, that thou

1263
01:05:07,679 --> 01:05:10,119
shouldst come into this land with thy family, thy monks

1264
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:12,679
and nuns, together with these saints of Aaron, seven years

1265
01:05:12,719 --> 01:05:17,119
before the judgment, and with that marvelous anchor which which

1266
01:05:17,239 --> 01:05:21,440
the priest made for thee. So seven years before the

1267
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:25,599
day of judgment, Brendan is going to return with the

1268
01:05:25,639 --> 01:05:30,760
anchor forged by the priest. I do not know what

1269
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:35,000
the heck that means, but this is what the hermit says.

1270
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,239
Speaker 3: I mean, clearly it has to do for sure. Then

1271
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,239
it's not a kind of it's not. It's obviously not

1272
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,760
like a Melchise, a Decker or some old characters. He's

1273
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,039
been there for sixty years. And also there's a sense

1274
01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:50,440
he's but he is in paradise. He's naked. It's like

1275
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:53,920
he is beatified, you know, in that sense. Yep ah.

1276
01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:58,320
And so I think that maybe what he's suggesting is

1277
01:05:57,639 --> 01:06:00,400
is something like this is for you as a is it,

1278
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,039
you know, and then you need you need to cut,

1279
01:06:04,079 --> 01:06:07,559
you'll return and then it will become your permanent abode.

1280
01:06:07,599 --> 01:06:11,559
And that will be with the anchor, the right anchor, right,

1281
01:06:11,639 --> 01:06:15,920
and you can anchor yourself in paradise. Because one of

1282
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,440
the things you see is that in some ways you

1283
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,639
can think about it as like the Jesus prayer, right,

1284
01:06:22,039 --> 01:06:24,599
or this this this as a Jesus prayers, this moving

1285
01:06:24,639 --> 01:06:26,800
in and moving out of paradise, if you think about

1286
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:32,000
it that way, as this this capacity to to to inhale,

1287
01:06:32,519 --> 01:06:35,760
you know, attention and spirit, but then you have to exhale.

1288
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,400
And that seems to be what's happening. He goes out

1289
01:06:38,599 --> 01:06:44,320
and then he encounters these glimpses of paradise, and then

1290
01:06:44,639 --> 01:06:47,320
he's told, okay, well now you have to go back,

1291
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,360
go back, go back to your world, you know, and

1292
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:50,960
then go back and then go you go out again,

1293
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:53,480
and then he gets closer, he actually gets the actual paradise,

1294
01:06:53,519 --> 01:06:55,480
and he said, well, no, you have to go back,

1295
01:06:55,519 --> 01:06:58,639
but then you will return, and then for for good

1296
01:06:58,719 --> 01:07:01,320
like you will return if with it with an anchor.

1297
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: The curious thing is that, of course the story ends

1298
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,480
with the death of Saint Brendan. So the idea is

1299
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,960
that he's still going to come to this land with

1300
01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:12,320
all the Saints of Ireland seven years before the day

1301
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:14,199
of Judgment, right with the anchor.

1302
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 3: Right.

1303
01:07:15,039 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: And the theme that the theme that we we kind

1304
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:24,159
of started with when we first started these videos on

1305
01:07:24,199 --> 01:07:28,920
the Voyage of Saint Brendan, is this idea that the

1306
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,440
saints established the world right, and so like this this

1307
01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:35,800
idea of anchoring, this idea of like finding the place right,

1308
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,800
finding paradise, finding the place of silence, right, finding the

1309
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:44,400
place of prayer and sort of establishing that seems to

1310
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,199
be one of the one of the things that's going

1311
01:07:46,239 --> 01:07:48,679
on here. I should also mention that this entire time

1312
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:52,800
they've been well, I say this entire time, the whole

1313
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,639
second voyage, basically their food has been brought to them

1314
01:07:55,719 --> 01:07:58,239
every day by this bird, this shining bird that follows

1315
01:07:58,239 --> 01:08:05,000
them and and brings them uh bread and fish for

1316
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:07,599
each each man and that's that's where their food is

1317
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:11,000
coming from. And so the bread, the shining bird brings

1318
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:15,360
them the food here on this island. And and then

1319
01:08:15,679 --> 01:08:18,880
the elder, this old hermit, partakes of the body and

1320
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,800
blood of Christ and then sends his spirit to heaven.

1321
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,600
Speaker 2: It says, doesn't doesn't die.

1322
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: He sends the spirit to heaven, and then they bury

1323
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:31,640
his body there on the island. And remember that, you know, no,

1324
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,199
no sinner can be buried here. This is paradise, right,

1325
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:37,239
and so but the by the hermit, he's able to

1326
01:08:37,239 --> 01:08:41,119
be buried there. So the hermit dies, right, Yeah, yeah,

1327
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:43,680
he was there just waiting for Brendan. And now now

1328
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,479
it's sort of very like Saint Simeon. Now let your

1329
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:47,399
servant department in peace.

1330
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. Wow.

1331
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: So, I mean this is all like wonderfully mysterious, and

1332
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:55,560
you know, you would stop the story here probably if

1333
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,399
you were writing it, because like, what else are you

1334
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:57,800
going to do?

1335
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 3: Well?

1336
01:08:58,039 --> 01:09:00,520
Speaker 1: It turns out a lot, And I just want to

1337
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:04,640
mention two. I know we're kind of like long, but

1338
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:09,159
we can keep going because I'm really having fun with

1339
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:12,479
this and I just want to mention what happens when

1340
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:17,520
Saint Brendan comes to Britain, so Brendan to kind of

1341
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:20,680
summarize a little bit, Brendan goes back to Ireland and

1342
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,159
he starts setting things in order, and so we get

1343
01:09:23,159 --> 01:09:25,520
a bunch of different miracles where he basically and the

1344
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,680
theme of the miracles is basically that each one is

1345
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:33,159
there's there's injustice, and then Brendan balances the scales right.

1346
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 2: And so.

1347
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: One day, uh, Brendan gets angry with this sky and

1348
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:41,960
he turns him into an otter.

1349
01:09:42,079 --> 01:09:42,560
Speaker 2: Like you do.

1350
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: And uh, this is connected with like kind of this

1351
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:51,239
famous old Irish poem about this order who's like you know. Uh,

1352
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,960
so this is this man whose name means otter in

1353
01:09:55,039 --> 01:09:57,720
Old Irish, and he's he gets he kills one of

1354
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,680
Brendan's cows and so he gets turned into an honor

1355
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:01,680
and so like swimming in the river. And then his

1356
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:03,720
sons from when he was a human they come to

1357
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,119
fish in the river and he like sings to them

1358
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:08,199
out of the river. And that's the context for this poem,

1359
01:10:08,279 --> 01:10:10,399
which also appears here in the life of Saint Brendan.

1360
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,159
But in any case, eventually the man you know dies

1361
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,199
and Brendan kind of feels it seems kind of bad

1362
01:10:17,279 --> 01:10:20,159
that he turned this guy into an otter. And so

1363
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:26,159
he goes to his foster mother Ita and asks, you know,

1364
01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:28,680
what should I do about this? And she says, basically,

1365
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,840
you need to go to the Island of Britain as

1366
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:35,199
sort of like a penance. And so he goes to

1367
01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:37,600
the island of Britain and they're on the island of Britain.

1368
01:10:38,319 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 3: There is a.

1369
01:10:41,199 --> 01:10:48,199
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm skipping so many things here there on the

1370
01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:51,279
island of Britain. You know, is Saint guild Us. Saint

1371
01:10:51,279 --> 01:10:54,119
guild Us, who's a famous Celtic saint, also from the

1372
01:10:54,159 --> 01:10:56,680
same century. This this century, the sixth century is the

1373
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,479
century that create that produces like all the great Celtic

1374
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,000
and Welsh saints. So he comes to the island of

1375
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:11,239
Britain and there's Saint Guildis and Guildess. Hears that Brendan

1376
01:11:11,359 --> 01:11:15,119
is coming and basically he's heard stories about Brendan, but

1377
01:11:15,119 --> 01:11:16,920
he wants to sort of test him and see if

1378
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,359
Brendan is legit, if he's the real deal, if he's

1379
01:11:19,399 --> 01:11:22,800
really a holy man, et cetera. And so he puts

1380
01:11:23,159 --> 01:11:27,439
he basically he has seven iron bolts put on the

1381
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,399
doors of the monastery, and then he has iron bolts

1382
01:11:30,399 --> 01:11:33,479
put on the doors of the church. And then he

1383
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:42,479
has a this is very interesting and strange detail, but

1384
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,720
he has a a liturgy book, a book with a

1385
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:51,239
liturgy in it, but it's in Greek, set on the

1386
01:11:51,359 --> 01:11:54,960
altar of the church. And so Saint Brendan comes along

1387
01:11:55,840 --> 01:12:00,680
and he yeah, right, So Saint Brendan comes along and

1388
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,119
he just tells his attendant, like he doesn't even deal

1389
01:12:03,159 --> 01:12:07,199
with the doors himself. He just tells his his Telemach

1390
01:12:07,359 --> 01:12:12,119
is his name, he's basically his his his servant tells

1391
01:12:12,159 --> 01:12:13,399
him to open the doors, and so he goes and

1392
01:12:13,399 --> 01:12:15,960
open the doors, and the seven iron bolts shatter, and

1393
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:17,600
then they get the doors of the church, and the

1394
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,720
iron bolts on the doors of the church shatter iron.

1395
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:20,119
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1396
01:12:20,159 --> 01:12:22,239
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a way making sure Brendan's not a fairy

1397
01:12:22,319 --> 01:12:22,920
or something like that.

1398
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

1399
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: Or it's just like a really you know, really strong lock.

1400
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 2: That's the idea.

1401
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,039
Speaker 1: And then he gets into the middle of the church

1402
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,640
and guild Us says, or at least the minister of

1403
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:35,880
the church says to Brendan, by the command of Saint Gildas,

1404
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:39,760
he says, say mass Brendan, and there there he is,

1405
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,720
and the altar is all prepared, the vessels are on it,

1406
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,199
and there's a book on it with the liturgy. But

1407
01:12:44,319 --> 01:12:48,399
the liturgy is written, we're told in Greek letters. So

1408
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,439
the idea is that, you know, how could you read

1409
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:55,000
it if you you know, like and I may you know,

1410
01:12:56,359 --> 01:12:59,119
there are people who are really interested in the idea

1411
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,199
that the that the Christianity, you know, may have been

1412
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,560
brought to the Celtic people originally, maybe from somewhere in

1413
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,079
the east, like northern Egypt.

1414
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,039
Speaker 2: There's books you can read about this.

1415
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:14,279
Speaker 1: Uh, there's a new one that came out recently, and

1416
01:13:14,279 --> 01:13:15,800
I wish I could remember the name of it. But

1417
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:17,880
but I mean there's you could say, there's like a

1418
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,760
persuasive case to be made. So this might be a

1419
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:25,039
reference to that. It might also just be the idea that, hey,

1420
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:28,000
it's in Greek. How are you going to read Greek

1421
01:13:28,159 --> 01:13:30,279
unless you're like a holy person, you know that kind

1422
01:13:30,359 --> 01:13:32,600
of a you know that that Saint Brendan is part

1423
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,640
of the powers that come with being a holy man.

1424
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,640
He's going to be able to read the liturgy in Greek,

1425
01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:40,720
and so Brendan opens the book and reads out the

1426
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:45,640
liturgy uh and then guild Us and his family they

1427
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,800
receive communion at Brendan's hand, and just as they're about

1428
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:53,359
to do this, guild Us sees a human form like

1429
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:57,319
the body of a little baby on the patent and

1430
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,720
human blood that smells, you know, like cot like human

1431
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:05,720
blood in the chalice, and Guildess freaks out because, as

1432
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,119
everybody knows in the ancient world, if you see this

1433
01:14:08,199 --> 01:14:10,399
kind of miracle associated with Eucharist, it is not a

1434
01:14:10,399 --> 01:14:13,840
good thing. And in fact, if you read the Church

1435
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:15,920
Father and you know sat Young christystem, he talks about

1436
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,800
the fact that the fact that Christ's body and blood

1437
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,520
comes to us as bread and wine is basically God

1438
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,319
sparing us. Right, so if you see something like this,

1439
01:14:27,359 --> 01:14:32,159
it's a sign of God's judgment. And so Gilda sees this,

1440
01:14:33,119 --> 01:14:36,800
and he says, vengeance is ready to fall upon me

1441
01:14:37,319 --> 01:14:40,640
because I have reproached Brendan. In other words, the fact

1442
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,439
that he didn't trust Brendan, he didn't recognize him as

1443
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,439
a man of God.

1444
01:14:46,199 --> 01:14:52,399
Speaker 2: Now he's now he's he's going to be judged. And

1445
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:55,640
so Brendan says, and this seems to.

1446
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:57,520
Speaker 1: Be like part of The idea here is that is

1447
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:01,800
that Saint Gildas has violated the laws of Christian hospitality.

1448
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,199
You know that he's barred the church to a man

1449
01:15:05,239 --> 01:15:07,039
of God who is also a fellow priest, also a

1450
01:15:07,039 --> 01:15:08,239
fellow monastic, et cetera.

1451
01:15:09,079 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 2: And so.

1452
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: And so Brendan says, I will protect thee from that vengeance,

1453
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,600
for though thou didst try the strangers, and this idea

1454
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,319
of and it's weird that in this case Brendan is

1455
01:15:20,319 --> 01:15:22,119
the stranger. Like Brennan has been out on the edge,

1456
01:15:22,159 --> 01:15:25,359
and he's been like running into the stranger that you

1457
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:27,720
can integrate and baptize, and the one that you can't,

1458
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:29,039
and the one that's just poisonous.

1459
01:15:29,119 --> 01:15:30,600
Speaker 2: But now Brendan is the stranger.

1460
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 1: And so it says, then, for though thou didst try

1461
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,199
the strangers, it is now the time of remission or forgiveness,

1462
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:41,399
that is, of going to receive the body of Christ.

1463
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,000
Then Brendan blessed the altar once more, and it was

1464
01:15:44,039 --> 01:15:46,359
the body of Christ the host, and there was the

1465
01:15:46,399 --> 01:15:49,239
bread that was on the patent, and the blood which

1466
01:15:49,319 --> 01:15:52,399
was in the chalice became wine. And when the people

1467
01:15:52,399 --> 01:15:54,239
have given us have communicated at the hands of Brendan.

1468
01:15:54,279 --> 01:15:57,199
Brendan and his company remained there for three days and

1469
01:15:57,279 --> 01:16:01,439
three nights, and after this things are like pretty good

1470
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:07,439
between Brendan and Guildis, and Brendan does does a bunch

1471
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,039
of miracles, you know, related to like the taming of

1472
01:16:10,079 --> 01:16:13,239
wild animals there and everything. So one day Brendan is

1473
01:16:15,359 --> 01:16:19,119
he's he's still there in the island of Britain, and

1474
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:23,640
he's building churches. And as he's building churches, he sees

1475
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,640
these two sea monsters which begin to fight in the sea,

1476
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,399
and these and then they take to the air, right,

1477
01:16:30,399 --> 01:16:34,079
so they're you know, what's the what's the what's the

1478
01:16:34,079 --> 01:16:38,159
flying version of amphibious? Like they're not land and see,

1479
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:41,399
they're air and sea. But anyway, so these two sea

1480
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:43,479
monsters they're fighting through the air and one of them

1481
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,760
is just really giving the other sea monster a hard time,

1482
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:47,920
and the sea monster cries out, in the name of

1483
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:53,079
Saint Brigid, leave me alone, and so the other monster

1484
01:16:53,239 --> 01:16:55,520
is like, oh, okay, well, if you're gonna invoke Saint Brigid,

1485
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,600
I don't want that smoke. And so he flies away

1486
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,319
and Brendon turns to his monk and says, monks and says,

1487
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,039
we have to leave for Ireland right now so that

1488
01:17:07,079 --> 01:17:11,439
I can go meet this Saint Brigid, because how holy

1489
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:14,159
does she have to be that even the monsters are

1490
01:17:14,159 --> 01:17:16,720
calling on her name? And even says and there's maybe

1491
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,000
a little bit of vanity here. I mean, it's always good.

1492
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:20,119
Speaker 3: He's alive.

1493
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's alive.

1494
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,199
Speaker 1: I mean again, all these big sixth century saints all

1495
01:17:24,199 --> 01:17:27,159
live right at the same time. Patrick overlaps with them

1496
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:31,800
as well, and and and he says, you know, like,

1497
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,039
how holy must she be that the sea monsters even

1498
01:17:35,079 --> 01:17:38,079
are calling on on her name for intercession? And they're

1499
01:17:38,119 --> 01:17:39,960
not they're not mentioning Brendan.

1500
01:17:40,039 --> 01:17:40,239
Speaker 3: You know.

1501
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:42,239
Speaker 1: And so there's this there's this kind of thing that

1502
01:17:42,279 --> 01:17:44,399
happens sometimes in these stories where you've had this holy

1503
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,199
man who's been a holy man for a long time.

1504
01:17:46,279 --> 01:17:48,640
There's stories like this about Saint Anthony the Great, for instance,

1505
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:50,880
where like you find out there's this other person that's

1506
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:51,800
even holier than you.

1507
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 3: So it's kind of like, yeah, but it's not any Yeah.

1508
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:56,720
Speaker 2: Put you in your place, right.

1509
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,600
Speaker 1: So they go to Ireland, They go back to Ireland,

1510
01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:06,439
and they meet with Saint Bridget and and this is

1511
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:09,960
when by the way Saint Brendan composed the famous and

1512
01:18:10,039 --> 01:18:15,439
celebrated him. Bridget a woman ever good, which is referenced

1513
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,720
in the story and then not quoted because obviously we

1514
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:23,319
all know that him. But in any case, I was

1515
01:18:23,359 --> 01:18:27,199
gonna say it like yeah, yeah, yeah, me neither. I

1516
01:18:27,239 --> 01:18:29,159
wish I did, though I wish we could find it,

1517
01:18:29,159 --> 01:18:34,319
because that would be pretty great. So Bridget comes to

1518
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:37,880
her and then he says, h tells her about the

1519
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,840
story of a conversation between the two monsters that he

1520
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,399
that hear, or Brendan comes to her, tell us about

1521
01:18:43,399 --> 01:18:45,119
the story of the conversation between the monsters, and then

1522
01:18:45,159 --> 01:18:45,439
ask you.

1523
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:46,560
Speaker 2: He says, what good said?

1524
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 1: He dost thou do for God more than I? When

1525
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:54,720
the monsters entreat thee even though absent and me though present,

1526
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:59,039
they leave uninvoked, and Bridget says to Brendan, make thy confession,

1527
01:18:59,079 --> 01:19:01,600
And so they basically make a confession to each other.

1528
01:19:02,199 --> 01:19:05,479
And what Brendan says is that I have never crossed

1529
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,920
seven furrows, like like, think about like a plowed field

1530
01:19:09,199 --> 01:19:11,960
right with furrows in it that I've and how long

1531
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,039
it would take you to walk across seven furrows, which

1532
01:19:14,079 --> 01:19:19,600
is like three or four steps without.

1533
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 2: Turning my mind towards God.

1534
01:19:21,279 --> 01:19:23,159
Speaker 1: And then Brendan says to her, make your confession, and

1535
01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:26,439
Bridget says that since I first fixed my mind on God,

1536
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:30,119
I've never taken it off and never will until.

1537
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 2: The day of doom.

1538
01:19:32,159 --> 01:19:35,520
Speaker 1: Thou, however, said she art, so constantly incurring great danger

1539
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,199
by sea by land, that thou must needs give thy

1540
01:19:38,239 --> 01:19:41,520
attention to it. And it is not because thou forgetest God,

1541
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,279
that thy mind is fixed on him only at every

1542
01:19:44,359 --> 01:19:50,039
third furrow. So basically it's like Brendan, you've been Yeah, yeah,

1543
01:19:50,119 --> 01:19:52,760
it's like listen, I you know, and it's it's kind

1544
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,600
of like, you know, Brendan is this masculine saint and

1545
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,600
he's out there, you know, traveling and running into all

1546
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,760
these dangers and obviously like raising the dead and casting

1547
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,319
out demons and all these other things. And then Bridget

1548
01:20:04,319 --> 01:20:07,720
just stays in one place. But because she does that

1549
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:13,279
because her mind is always fixed on God, right, And yeah,

1550
01:20:13,319 --> 01:20:19,159
so we'll get another poem here, and Brendan goes back home.

1551
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,079
It moves between Britain and Ireland. The rest of the

1552
01:20:24,119 --> 01:20:28,720
story is kind of focused on the different monasteries that

1553
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,520
Brendan establishes and the monastic rules that he puts in place.

1554
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:36,039
And when we come to the story of Brendan's repose,

1555
01:20:36,359 --> 01:20:38,039
there's a story in here, by the way, about the

1556
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,640
rescue of a monk named Coleman after his death like

1557
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,279
from hell through Saint Brendan's prayers, And this whole section

1558
01:20:46,399 --> 01:20:49,680
is basically about whether or not the prayer of Christians

1559
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,640
is like if it's effective for the dead? Right, basically,

1560
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:53,520
why you should pray.

1561
01:20:53,319 --> 01:20:57,119
Speaker 3: For the dead? Brendon get someone out of hell? Yeah?

1562
01:20:57,159 --> 01:21:01,319
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, just that not

1563
01:21:01,399 --> 01:21:04,439
a big deal, like you do like you actually doesn't

1564
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:06,720
just do that. He puts together a prayer rule, and

1565
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:10,479
this seems to be the origin story for the Irish

1566
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:12,720
Office of the Dead, like this is what you pray for.

1567
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:14,560
Speaker 2: Souls who have recently reposed.

1568
01:21:15,039 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: There is no mention at this particular juncture of purgatory,

1569
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:20,560
but the idea is that the monk is kind of

1570
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:23,479
the worst monk, but through Brendan's prayers he's delivered anyway

1571
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:23,840
from the.

1572
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:24,359
Speaker 2: Fires of hell.

1573
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:31,039
Speaker 1: So finally we get to the story of Brendan's repose,

1574
01:21:31,399 --> 01:21:34,000
which is where the story ends. Against kipping a lot

1575
01:21:34,039 --> 01:21:39,560
of details here, but Brendan is away from clon Ferret,

1576
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:41,359
which is the monastery that he's found, and he says,

1577
01:21:41,399 --> 01:21:46,319
this is where my resurrection is going to be. He's

1578
01:21:46,359 --> 01:21:48,920
away from there when he's dying, and he knows he's

1579
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:53,439
about to die, and so he says, I need my

1580
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:54,600
body to be taken.

1581
01:21:54,359 --> 01:21:55,119
Speaker 2: To clon Ferret.

1582
01:21:55,279 --> 01:21:58,159
Speaker 1: That's where there will be in attendance of angels over it,

1583
01:21:58,199 --> 01:22:01,239
and that's where my resurrection will take place. And so

1584
01:22:01,279 --> 01:22:04,039
he leaves instructions, and the instructions are very particular. He says,

1585
01:22:04,239 --> 01:22:06,479
first of all, just make a little wagon and put

1586
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:08,960
my body in the wagon, because if there's a large wagon,

1587
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,920
if there's a big attendance, everybody in Ireland's going to

1588
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:15,000
realize that's my body, and they're going to want to

1589
01:22:15,039 --> 01:22:16,279
like they're going to fight over.

1590
01:22:16,119 --> 01:22:19,159
Speaker 2: My body, you know, like like and like you have.

1591
01:22:19,079 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 1: To imagine the sort of the recently Christianized Irish tribes

1592
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,159
would definitely fight over and in fact did fight over

1593
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,000
the relics of saints like it's something, you know, So

1594
01:22:31,319 --> 01:22:34,159
a different state of affairs, one might say, although it's

1595
01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:36,600
not too difficult actually, I think to imagine the world

1596
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:38,560
in the world that we live in that if you

1597
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:41,119
really believe like the relics of the saints are like

1598
01:22:41,119 --> 01:22:44,479
holy things that would bring protection to your community and

1599
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,960
and you know, like healing sickness and all these other things,

1600
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:49,159
like maybe you would fight to have that for your community.

1601
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,319
Not saying that's what we should do, but you know,

1602
01:22:51,319 --> 01:22:54,079
I don't think it's too hard to imagine anyway.

1603
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 3: Baby, but pay a lot for more like huge amounts

1604
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,079
for very ridiculous participation.

1605
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:05,119
Speaker 1: Things exactly exactly exactly. So he gives these instructions, and

1606
01:23:05,119 --> 01:23:07,720
he says, when you're moving my body, a young man

1607
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:12,359
is going to show up with and he's only got

1608
01:23:12,359 --> 01:23:16,680
one eye, the left eye in particular, to speak precisely,

1609
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,760
who will meet the bearer of my body? And this

1610
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:22,399
guy is basically like a prince from one of the

1611
01:23:22,399 --> 01:23:25,319
local tribes. And he will say to the brother who

1612
01:23:25,319 --> 01:23:27,039
has the corpse, is that the body of the saint

1613
01:23:27,159 --> 01:23:30,000
that thou hast? And he will say, in a gruff voice,

1614
01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:31,760
among us, shall his resurrection be?

1615
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:32,560
Speaker 2: Give up the body.

1616
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:34,279
Speaker 1: So he's saying, people are going to come from my body,

1617
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:36,920
and there's going to be this thing that they have

1618
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,000
to offer. So first of all, you're going to offer

1619
01:23:39,079 --> 01:23:42,000
him gold, and he's going to refuse that. Then you

1620
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:44,760
have to offer them the Kingship, and say, Brendan said,

1621
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:46,640
you could have the Kingship if you sort of leave

1622
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:48,840
his body alone, and he's going to refuse that. And

1623
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:51,800
then you say, I'm going to offer you heaven on

1624
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,560
earth that is salvation. And then for those three things,

1625
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:57,840
for the goal of the Kingship and heaven and earth,

1626
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:03,319
he'll release it. And that's basically that's how the story.

1627
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,560
That's how the story goes. And so Brendan's body is

1628
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,880
taken to Clonfert and in the year five hundred and

1629
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:14,279
eighty one. According to the story, the year five hundred

1630
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:17,239
and eighty one, from the birth of the Son of Mary,

1631
01:24:17,279 --> 01:24:19,560
we're sure to the extinction of Brendan's life was a

1632
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:23,720
year and a glorious eighty in addition to five hundred complete.

1633
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,479
He dies, and the last thing that we're told about

1634
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,119
him is that the body of Brennan was then brought

1635
01:24:29,119 --> 01:24:31,760
to Clonfert and buried there with great honor and reverence,

1636
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,039
with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs in honor of

1637
01:24:35,039 --> 01:24:38,359
the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit,

1638
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,039
and that's how Brendan dies. And Brendan is one of

1639
01:24:42,079 --> 01:24:44,880
the one of the twelve Apostles of Ireland. He's one

1640
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:48,880
of the people who really establishes the Irish Church. His

1641
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:52,880
story is his life is full of these strange, bizarre, amazing,

1642
01:24:53,039 --> 01:24:57,399
wonderful stories that seemed to be about these things which

1643
01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:01,159
Celtic Christianity and really all Christianity. I mean, that's the

1644
01:25:01,199 --> 01:25:05,319
thing that I want to secretly do is help people

1645
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,039
understand that when we're talking about the ancient Church, there

1646
01:25:08,039 --> 01:25:10,159
are these different flavors, but it's all part of a

1647
01:25:10,159 --> 01:25:13,479
single cohesive whole. I mean, you could imagine the stories

1648
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:17,119
that I've told today and in the previous video being

1649
01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:19,239
the sort of stories that would show up in Ethiopian

1650
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:25,319
folklore and Christianity and hagiography, right, but also really really anywhere.

1651
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:26,039
Speaker 2: Kind of out on the edge.

1652
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that these stories are are really they're part

1653
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:35,079
of our common inheritance that and that they by by

1654
01:25:35,119 --> 01:25:38,640
moving through kind of extremes like this, they show us

1655
01:25:39,079 --> 01:25:41,840
the way that the Saints establish the world, the way

1656
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:46,239
that they mediate between heaven and Earth, and also you know,

1657
01:25:46,319 --> 01:25:49,159
kind of the wonderful variety that is between them, which

1658
01:25:49,199 --> 01:25:52,640
is the wonderful thing there's you know, the opening line

1659
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:56,560
of War Network piece of the other Tolstoy novel an

1660
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,960
AA Karenina says something like, you know, good people all

1661
01:26:00,119 --> 01:26:02,359
the same, but bad people are all different. Something I'm

1662
01:26:02,399 --> 01:26:05,359
butchering the opening line, but in any case, but it's

1663
01:26:05,399 --> 01:26:08,079
exactly the other way around, like evil things, and this

1664
01:26:08,159 --> 01:26:10,119
is what you see in the life of Saint Brendan,

1665
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:12,560
that all the evil things that you come across are

1666
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:16,119
very mundane and they're very much you know, they're very banal,

1667
01:26:16,119 --> 01:26:19,359
they're very much the same. But in the Saints, you know,

1668
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:22,039
between somebody like Brendan and somebody like Saint Bridgid, who

1669
01:26:22,079 --> 01:26:25,279
has her own hagiography which is full of strange and

1670
01:26:25,319 --> 01:26:28,399
wondrous happenings as well, but there's a very different character

1671
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:28,960
between them.

1672
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:30,359
Speaker 2: You know, they're two very.

1673
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 1: Different people and two different witnesses to what it looks

1674
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,680
like to live this life that is transparent to Jesus

1675
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,840
Christ in a place that could not be more different,

1676
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:42,800
but also couldn't be more similar to the world that

1677
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:43,239
we live in.

1678
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:48,640
Speaker 3: So awesome, that's an that's a great place to to finish.

1679
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:51,520
Do we have Are there relics. Do they have Brendan's relics?

1680
01:26:52,119 --> 01:26:53,640
Speaker 1: Relics of Saint Brendan. I don't know the answer to

1681
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:55,520
that question. I know there are relics of Saint Bridgid,

1682
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:57,640
but there's a lot that was lost during the Reformation.

1683
01:26:57,960 --> 01:26:59,039
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that.

1684
01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: I thought I would end this, if it's okay, by

1685
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:09,000
reading a poem, right. So the poem is by J. R. R. Tolkien,

1686
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:12,000
and there's a couple of versions of it. The early

1687
01:27:12,119 --> 01:27:14,720
version is called Imram and then he later updated it

1688
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,239
and renamed it to the Death of Saint Brendan, and

1689
01:27:18,279 --> 01:27:21,039
it is about sort of Brendan's last moments. And I

1690
01:27:21,079 --> 01:27:28,840
want to mention the story because we have this course

1691
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:31,079
that we're about to launch. It's coming later this month.

1692
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:32,920
It's going to be the first time that I've taught,

1693
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,279
of course solo for Symbolic World actually, but I'm really

1694
01:27:35,319 --> 01:27:37,840
looking forward to it and the story. The course is

1695
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,960
called Tolkien and Universal History. The Symbolic World goes to

1696
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:43,640
Middle Earth. We'll have a link down to it here

1697
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:46,920
in the Double Doo. But in that in the Double.

1698
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:47,760
Speaker 2: Doo, yeah, uh.

1699
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:51,720
Speaker 1: In that course, one of the things that I want

1700
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:53,960
to do is show people the kind of the sort

1701
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:55,039
of the secret.

1702
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:56,720
Speaker 2: Ways that Tolkien.

1703
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:02,119
Speaker 1: Tolkien's Legendarium is actually a work where it's an attempt

1704
01:28:02,119 --> 01:28:05,000
at a of universal history, and as part of that,

1705
01:28:05,079 --> 01:28:07,479
it shows the way that Tolkien tries to take the

1706
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:09,279
story of the English people and the sort of the

1707
01:28:09,319 --> 01:28:12,960
mythical ancestors of the English people and somehow make it

1708
01:28:13,359 --> 01:28:19,680
fit into the ancient Christian identity of the British Isles right,

1709
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:21,359
and that to be British and to be English are

1710
01:28:21,399 --> 01:28:24,479
not actually the same thing, but Tolkien tried to sort

1711
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,520
of make them fit together in ways that people have

1712
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:29,840
not noticed or have not really paid attention to.

1713
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:31,760
Speaker 2: And so this is.

1714
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:35,279
Speaker 1: One example of that. This is the death of Saint Brendan.

1715
01:28:36,199 --> 01:28:39,640
At last, out of the deep seas, he passed and

1716
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:42,840
mist rolled on the shore under clouded moon. The waves

1717
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:47,000
were loud as the Leydenship Hymn bore to Ireland, back

1718
01:28:47,039 --> 01:28:50,399
to Wood and Meyer, to the tower Tall and Gray,

1719
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:54,840
where the knell of kluen Ferte's bell told in the

1720
01:28:54,880 --> 01:29:00,680
Green Galway, where Shannon down to luch Dere under a

1721
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:04,279
rain clad sky, Saint Brendan came to his journey's end

1722
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,600
to await his hour to die. Oh tell me, father,

1723
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,279
for I loved you well. If still you have words

1724
01:29:11,279 --> 01:29:14,800
for me of things strange in the remembering, in the

1725
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:18,680
long and lonely sea of islands, by deep spells beguiled,

1726
01:29:19,159 --> 01:29:23,119
Where dwell the elven kind? In seven long years the

1727
01:29:23,239 --> 01:29:26,239
road to heaven or the living land? Did you find

1728
01:29:27,359 --> 01:29:31,039
the things I have seen? The many things have long

1729
01:29:31,119 --> 01:29:35,279
now faded far. Only three come clear now back to me.

1730
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:40,720
A cloud, a tree, a star. We sailed for a

1731
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,960
year and a day, and hailed no field or coast

1732
01:29:44,039 --> 01:29:48,000
of mean, nor boat nor bird. Saw we ever afloat

1733
01:29:48,039 --> 01:29:51,239
for forty days and ten We saw no sun at

1734
01:29:51,319 --> 01:29:54,600
set or dawn, but a dun cloud lay ahead, and

1735
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:57,760
a drumming there was like a thunder coming, and a

1736
01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:02,640
gleam of fiery red of reared from the cloud to

1737
01:30:03,159 --> 01:30:05,520
of reared from the sea to cloud. Then sheer, a

1738
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,399
shoreless mountain stood. Its sides were black from the sul

1739
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,399
and tide to the red lining of its hood. No

1740
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:16,720
cloak of cloud nor lowering smoke, no looming storm of thunder.

1741
01:30:17,079 --> 01:30:20,159
In the world of men, saw I ever unfurled like

1742
01:30:20,199 --> 01:30:23,840
the pall that we passed under. We turned away, and

1743
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:26,840
we left astern the rumbling and the gloom. Then the

1744
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:30,880
smoking cloud asunder broke, and we saw the Tower of Doom,

1745
01:30:31,039 --> 01:30:33,560
and its ashen head was a crown of red, where

1746
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,880
the fishes flamed and fell as tall as a column

1747
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,119
in High Heavens Hall. Its feet were deep as hell,

1748
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,079
grounded in chasms, the water drowned and buried long ago.

1749
01:30:44,279 --> 01:30:48,119
It stands i ween in forgotten lands, where the kings

1750
01:30:48,239 --> 01:30:52,119
of kings lie low. We say, by the way, it's

1751
01:30:52,119 --> 01:30:56,760
amazing that the episodes that Tolkien is describing here in

1752
01:30:56,760 --> 01:31:01,039
his poem are ones that we read. But Tolien is

1753
01:31:01,079 --> 01:31:04,520
like very consciously interpreting them, like as having to do

1754
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:08,039
with the fall of numanor which is also like the

1755
01:31:08,079 --> 01:31:12,159
flood and the fall of the kings, and all these things.

1756
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:14,920
We sailed then on till the wind had failed, and

1757
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,600
we toiled then with the oar and hunger and thirst,

1758
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:20,680
a sorely wrung, and we sang our psalms no more

1759
01:31:21,239 --> 01:31:23,319
a land at last with a silver strand at the

1760
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:26,239
end of strength we found the waves were singing in

1761
01:31:26,279 --> 01:31:29,880
pillared caves, and pearls lay on the ground, and steep

1762
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:33,600
the shores went upward leaping to slopes of green and gold,

1763
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:37,119
and a stream out of rich and teeming through a

1764
01:31:37,159 --> 01:31:40,840
comb of shadow, rolled through gates of stone. We rode

1765
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:43,760
in haste and passed and left the sea, and silence

1766
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,319
like dew fell in the aisle, and holy it seemed

1767
01:31:46,359 --> 01:31:49,439
to be as a green cup deep in a brim

1768
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:52,960
of green that with wine the white sun fills.

1769
01:31:53,079 --> 01:31:54,159
Speaker 2: Was the land we found.

1770
01:31:54,199 --> 01:31:57,359
Speaker 1: And we saw their stand on a lawnd between the hills,

1771
01:31:57,399 --> 01:32:00,720
a tree more fair than ever I deemed might climb

1772
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:04,560
in paradise. Its foot was like a great tower's root,

1773
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:08,239
its height beyond men's eyes, so wide, its branches the

1774
01:32:08,319 --> 01:32:11,159
least could hold, and shade and acre long, and they

1775
01:32:11,279 --> 01:32:15,680
rose as steep as mountain snows, those boughs so broad

1776
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:18,880
and strong, for white as winter. To my sight, the

1777
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:22,039
leaves of that tree were. They grew more close than

1778
01:32:22,119 --> 01:32:28,439
swanowing plumes, all long and soft and fair. We deemed, then, maybe,

1779
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,760
as in a dream, that time had passed away, and

1780
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:35,119
our journey ended. For no return, we hoped, but there

1781
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:38,039
to stay in the silence of that hollow aisle, in

1782
01:32:38,079 --> 01:32:41,680
the stillness. Then we sang softly, as seemed, but the

1783
01:32:42,039 --> 01:32:46,039
sound aloft, like a pealing organ rang, then trembled the

1784
01:32:46,079 --> 01:32:48,880
tree from crown to stem, from the limbs that leaves

1785
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:52,039
in air, the leaves in air as white birds fled

1786
01:32:52,119 --> 01:32:56,000
in wheeling flight, and left the branches bare. Now this

1787
01:32:56,039 --> 01:32:58,439
part of the story comes from a different version of

1788
01:32:58,039 --> 01:33:00,039
the story of Saint Brennan than the one that I.

1789
01:33:00,079 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 2: Read to you.

1790
01:33:01,119 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 1: From the sky came dropping down on high a music

1791
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:06,640
not of a bird, not voice of man, nor angel's voice.

1792
01:33:07,159 --> 01:33:10,359
But maybe there is a third fair kindred in the world.

1793
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:15,279
Yet lingers beyond the foundered land. Yet steep are the seas,

1794
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:20,079
and the waters deep beyond the white sea. Strand Oh

1795
01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:22,760
stay now, Father, there's more to say. But two things

1796
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,319
you have told the tree, the cloud, But you spoke

1797
01:33:25,359 --> 01:33:29,279
of a third, the star in mind you hold the star. Yes,

1798
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,119
I saw it high and far at the parting of

1799
01:33:32,119 --> 01:33:34,960
the ways, a light on the edge of the outer night,

1800
01:33:35,119 --> 01:33:39,319
like silver set ablaze, where the round world plunges steeply down.

1801
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:42,600
But on the old road goes as an unseen bridge,

1802
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:46,399
that on the arches runs to coasts that no man knows.

1803
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:49,359
But men say, Father, that ere the end you went

1804
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:53,239
where none have been. I would hear you tell me, father, dear,

1805
01:33:53,399 --> 01:33:56,680
of the last land that you have seen in my

1806
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:59,680
mind the star I can still find, and the parting

1807
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,520
of the s and the breath as sweet and keen

1808
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,720
as death that was borne upon the breeze. But where

1809
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:09,239
they bloom those flowers fair? In what air or land

1810
01:34:09,279 --> 01:34:12,680
they grow? What words beyond the world I heard? If

1811
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,119
you would seek to know in a boat, then brother

1812
01:34:15,279 --> 01:34:18,600
far afloat, you must labor on the sea and find

1813
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:21,840
for yourself things out of mind. You will learn no

1814
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:25,439
more of me In Ireland over wood and Meyer in

1815
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:28,800
the tower tall and gray, the knell of kloon Ferte's

1816
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:32,680
bell was tolling in Green Galway. Saint Brendan had come

1817
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:37,279
to his life's end under a ring clad sky and journeyed.

1818
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:43,239
Whence no ship returns, but his bones in Ireland lie.

1819
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:45,279
Speaker 2: Anyway.

1820
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:49,399
Speaker 1: It's a lovely poem, I mean, it's I always read

1821
01:34:49,399 --> 01:34:51,880
it on the Feast of Saint Brendan every year. But

1822
01:34:53,159 --> 01:34:56,479
we're gonna get into it and look at the versions

1823
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:59,640
of the story of Saint Brendan's life that Tolkien was reading,

1824
01:35:00,079 --> 01:35:02,359
and how he tries to connect them into for instance,

1825
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:06,039
this idea of maybe there's a third fair kindred that

1826
01:35:06,159 --> 01:35:09,960
in the world yet lingers, and uh yeah, so that's

1827
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:12,000
something to look forward to. I hope folks will join

1828
01:35:12,079 --> 01:35:17,359
us for Token and Universal History. And I've talked a

1829
01:35:17,359 --> 01:35:18,359
lot Jonathan, so.

1830
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:22,319
Speaker 3: This is great as usual, you know, surprises all abound

1831
01:35:22,359 --> 01:35:26,399
and and amazing stories and so yeah, people show up.

1832
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:29,359
It would be be great to see Richard try to

1833
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:31,760
you know, Richard has talked so much about Tolkien. Would

1834
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:33,720
be wonderful to see him really try to frame it

1835
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:37,720
within our our universal history arrow.

1836
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:42,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, thanks Richer, Thanks Jonathan, talk soon, Bye bye,