Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the it
Welcome to Dairy series. I think it's the first time
I've smoothly said the title, which is good because we
are our rush and I screwed that up. We are
at the penultimate episode of this series, episode seven. I
am the dancing podcaster. Trust Now I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: Hey, my name is Dylan Muss.
Speaker 1: Yes, we are here. It's a weird time because it's
like the show. It's not that I forget the show's
going on, but there's sometimes I do a little bit.
Maybe that speaks to the quality, and I don't think
it's like a bat like. I think it's like a
you know, we'll just get right into Because I was
not here last week. I feel like, and hopefully for
the finale, we should have all three of us on.
I feel like we're on different wavelengths where I feel like,
You're definitely the most down on the show. I don't
know this episode, but overall, I feel like the most down.
Taylor's definitely the most highest, and I feel like I'm
like right maybe not right in the middle, I'd say
leaning towards Taylor, but it's just like I'm finding Myself.
So last week I enjoyed that episode. I think this
episode is a really good one. I think there's some
good moments in here. I think there's some really dark
stuff in here. I think, you know, mine's supposed to
be like I feel like, if people are waiting for
Bill Scarsgard, this is the episode where it's like, Okay,
you're gonna get a good amount of him, right, So
I think he delivers there. I think there's some fun
stuff too, where he's doing things that he's not got
to do before in this series perhaps, so that's good.
So and but now next week's the finale. So I
just feel like almost every week that I've still enjoyed it.
I think, other than maybe maybe week one, a week two,
and I find each week I finish it, I'm enjoying it.
But I'm never like, oh, I can't wait till next week.
And it's not like when I consume the episode, I'm like,
oh man, no, it's not like that like a secret
invasion or something like that for me personally. But yeah,
I enjoyed this episode. I think there was a lot
of intense stuff in here. I think there's a scene
that I'm very fifty percent on because I think there's
good stuff happening in it, and I like the idea
of it, but I also think it's shown away where
clearly that they're trying, like it's they're shown away where
they don't want to danger the actors and they also
want to keep it on a budget. And it just
it feels like there's some cool stuff going on, but
it feels like it is also kind of distracting. But yeah,
and I feel the end of this episode set up
very much to I'll be very curious if this gets
a season two, because we get it and then it
chapter two and then this it feels like they're kind
of all ending in a similar fashion. You know, there's
definitely some new stuff going on by me, like just
the I'll say, like the very end of this episode,
I feel like has happened in both movies that leads
to the third act of the movies and here we
are again doing this another character. So uh, yeah, I
enjoyed Bill. I think there's some, like I said, some
really good moments. There's some grotesta stuff. This is definitely
the darkest episode the show so far. This is a
really kind of dreadful episode. Like it's not a happy
and again that's why it's another time. You know, I
got the Christmas tree behind me. Still find it awe
Like this is in the middle of December, Like I
wonder how people are vining with this that are like
into the big hork of me right, Like is this
something you would be like, Ah, I'm gonna come back
to this later on and then ever come back to
it just feels like if you're in the holiday cheer,
this is definitely not the episode. There's clown violence, there's
human violence. It's it's not a good time in that way.
So yeah, I think there's some big stuff that happen.
I enjoy I still enjoyed it for the most part.
But next week I'm yeah, I'll be curious when we
talk about the finale because I feel like there's some
storylines that they're gonna keep open to try and get
that season too. But I don't even know how it's
gonna work because I think there's one thing in particularly
they're gonna try and leave off, and it feel like
they kind of close that loop. So yeah, I still
enjoy this. Had some questions, but yeah, what do you
think about this tomb?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's been because for the first couple episodes,
I was like up and down, up and down, and
then for the last few I have just been kind
of down and out. And yeah, I think I'm still
like out. I'm just I've kind of tapered off, and
I think it's kind of lost me a little bit,
Like there's there's one plot line in this episode or
one I guess underlying thing that's really not a huge
vault for the show, but it's kind of I guess
it's been like lurking in the background the whole that
was kind of talked about more this week, and I
really really don't like that, and I feel like you
probably don't either, if I had to guess. And then
that's where the other scenes. I feel like every episode
has had a couple of good scares in it, which
is nice, you know, obviously for the material we've had,
this episode didn't really have that so much. In my opinion,
you could definitely make a case for a couple of scenes,
but I think it replaces that with like a big,
more action y sort of set piece, which for me
and I think that's kind of we're hinting out. I
didn't look super great and was really drawn out in
like one character interaction in particular that's just like so
goofy for me, even though it was supposed to be
like really heartfelts and sincere and all that sort of stuff.
So yeah, I don't know. And then again, there's just
like one plot point in here that kind of leads
to our cliffhanger that is just like a head scratcher. Again,
I just feel like a lot of the writing is
really sloppy in this show. It just feels we're kind
of just meandering from locational location in some way. So
I do expect next week to have of, you know,
a big fun finale, and I'm sure it'll be a
good enough time to watch. And I think that's where
I'm at, Like, you know, this show's fine. It's not
like I'm tearing my hair out watching it or anything
like that. But I think the last few episodes have
just felt extremely lukewarm, and so I've just kind of
been waning in that way. So yeah, I'm sure we'll
close it out in a big way, but it also
feels like it'll probably be mostly predictable. I guess, like, really,
at the end of the day, just because this is
a prequel, right, So I don't know, I didn't really
care much for this episode personally.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, there we go. Well, we're gonna break it down.
So if you've not seen this episode, you know, come
back later. But usually the two shows, I feel like
you have, so we will take our first ad break
and then we'll be right back and we're back. So
what was the story you were saying of the one
you're not You said, it's kind of been looming in
the background, and you were a fan.
Speaker 2: Of the I think it was the military terry storyline
and the information we got here, because we talked about
that from the beginning, like where are they going with this?
And you know, we eventually happened upon the artifacts. There's
all these other characters. Of course it ties in with
like crazy stuff that's going on in the town. But
then we get to this section in here and they
like recover this one artifact that Hallerin found because of
this vision he was having, and then they bring it
back to the military base and they're gonna smelt it down,
I guess, or just like destroy it with the objective
that the US military wants to inflict whatever, like disease
Dairy has on like all of America. I guess it's
what James Ramar is saying. It's like, Okay, so we're
taking this like small, goofy little town of Dairy, and
we're gonna the US's government is to uh the plan
is to separate kind of that. I don't know. I
guess that what's what's the word? Like the way people
are I guess the what's what's the word? I'm looking
for vision? No, not the division, just yeah, I guess
like the way the way people are acting, like the
you know the fact that people don't really do much here.
They don't care whether fellow man like they're just gonna
let that spiral out to the rest of the states.
I just don't like the scale jump that we had
here from Dairy too huge America plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's now we I think we all
were a little i'll say uneasy, but just unsure where
this was going right. And I think with this storyline overall,
I think taking out just pure uh, just make it
pure story and ejective wise, I'm not a fan of it.
I would failed on that grade. I still end up
liking the you know, Hamlin senior, and I still I've
still liked all the Dick halla Ran stuff. Obviously a
big shine guy. I have talked about that, but even
this episode, I think it led to some good stuff.
So I like the characters that were around it. I like,
you know, James Ormar, but I think in this episode
there was just multiple things going on. Where Okay, so
we once again did James Larmer lying again, right, Because
at first it's like, well, some people attacked you and
we're going to wrestle. It's like, well, really that was
a test. Oh I uh, I don't remember much about
Darry until I got here. Well, actually I remember everything
about Darry, and now once I took some drugs, and
now it's like, oh, you know what we're gonna do
to save the world, to fight the Russians, it's not
actually what we're doing. So it's just like the third time,
it's like all right, and I guess like there's some
shows I feel like that can do that where it's like, oh,
this guy he keeps lying and like, I feel breaking bad.
That's a great example of a protagonist, a guy you're
rooting for, but he keeps lying and you're like, man, okay,
and the lies are so good, but now it just
seems kind of hokey. And and the thing with the
speech is kind of two things I have issues with
with one. The beginning of the speech is very I
get it. I'm fine for political stuff, but just very
on the notes for what's going on America, just like
we're so torn apart, everybody can't get together race and say,
like he just said, he's listening to every sort of
hot button issue that's happening in twenty twenty five and
doing it now. And it just feels like that character
is we don't know enough about him, so it doesn't
feel naturally like that's how it feels or how he feels.
It just feels that's what the show wants him too.
And it's trying to speak, you know, out there, which
is always good because sometimes people can watch the show
maybe they are woke up as something. Oh I didn't
think about this perspective, right, And I don't mind the
idea as far as Okay, I love this in Watchmen.
I think we've talked about this before, maybe all an
after not like or more like a bread and butter
and whatnot, but like, and I think what they're trying
to draw a line to you, right if they're talking
about America right now, and I'll just say North American general,
because I say after Canada and COVID things got a
little divided. I think what they're trying to draw a
line here is like after nine to eleven, America was
like solid, right, Like once that big event happened, everyone
gone the save wavelength. And I think they're trying to
say that they want anywise, Like if the American people
know every twenty seven years they're gonna get killed by
a clown or something, they're gonna come together. And that's
the bigger issue, right, the fear. So I don't mind that.
I don't think it's written greatly here. But I think
my issue is just the night before we had a
bunch of cops or previous cops, some townspeople just kill
a bunch of people because they wouldn't give this you know,
African American guy over that was probably innocent, right, So
it's not if the if the dairy was, hey, everyone's
kind of a little bit off, but everyone was still
like overly nice and didn't hurt each other, you'd kind
of be like, Okay, it's kind of like a fake happiness,
but it's happy, but it's not The people are still
like Hamlin hit his son last week, Like that's the thing.
It kind of rots away. That's the opposite of Darry
is All. The longer it is, you know, awaken, you
can see the town getting worse and worse and more angry.
So that's what makes sense to me. Of like, I
get the idea of okay, we unite against one common fear, absolutely,
but the I want people to be like Dairy, I
wanted to be like a day to become America. It's
it's like, well, this sounds awful, So this doesn't make
really any sense to me. He even says that the speech,
He's like, look what happened last night. Those people were butchered.
It's like, well, I don't I don't know what we're
doing here. So I think it's just kind of a
it's a lot of political and life messages all roll
up the one and it just doesn't make sense for
just kind of what we've been doing for this, I
would say it wouldn't make sense. It feels forced. I'll say,
That's what I'll say.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's a goofy the way James Lamar is like,
see how relaxed and chilled and like you use different words,
but he's like today everyone's doing all so good. It's like,
do we want more of this? It's like, dude, they're
fucking devastated. It's still like the morning, like everyone is
learning information, yes, and obviously like we get like a
little news report and it's kind of just spreading fake
news to an extent as well. So it's like the
people in the town don't even necessarily know what happened, right,
Like they they're getting like an extremely skewed version of
like the reality of it. So how could they like
react in any other way other than just like disbelief
and trying to understand just mere hours after it occurred.
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming that that piece that they built because
the kids, they still have the one like sharred sword piece.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I believe Lily still has it, right yeah.
Speaker 1: So I feel like that's what's gonna happen, right, whatever
location they put it in, they're gonna put it back
there so they kind of seal the borders. Because I
have to think the show is going to do that
because to me, if I'm because I remember when we
started the show and we were talking about the origins.
I think it's like episode three or four, and they
explained that it's kind of like a border right around Dare.
It's like, okay, that makes sense why it wouldn't go
around He's stuck in this location. That makes sense why
Darry's raw in town because the clown can't leave. But
if they, I think they will, I'm giving them the
massive benefit of doubt here if they don't put that
sword there or answer that, it's gonna be odd watching
it one and two and realizing that Pennywise is gonna
like pimped off at any time, you know, like there
is just like yeah. They even said like you're gonna
leave the gate open, So I feel like they that's
what I imagine next week the kids are they gonna
have to save the Hamling kid and they're gonna drop
the you know, the sword back there. And then they
I think, right, because they had the uh I can't
remember his name, but the guy that got brainwashing in
the information, he was watching with the binoculars, right, so
I feel like he has to be have something cooking
right to try to fix this or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And because I'm gonna ask you about that too,
because like the end of this episode or like I
guess kind of yeah, nearing the end, we have the
moment where the military uh roasts up that one shard,
and then Pennywise is in like his like hibernation blood bath,
body bath thing, which I really love that shot. That shot, yeah,
super super good. Then he emerges from that, and then
we next seem at at Will's house and that's kind
of the cliffhanger of the episode. But like the other people,
like that main group of like the local people who
have lived here forever, they're like, oh, yeah, like he's
fed enough, his cycle is over. He's gone back into hibernation.
But then I guess it's because they melted the shard,
so he came out of hybernation. And then by Lily
putting that one shard back, it's gonna re establish that
because obviously we know that he does go back into hibernation, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's a lot of heavy lifting eye.
Speaker 2: To do, like does each shard correlate to like six
years of hibernation or something like? Is that what's going
on here?
Speaker 1: No? I think what's going on to me is and
I think this is where they'll try to explain it
next week, and I think it's heavy lifting, but they
did try to explain it. Shout out, you know the
movie will be out next year. A couple Upscoes episodes
ago they were they used the word adrenochrome. They talked
about what adrenochrome is. I think the idea is they
moved this piece of rock, this part gets open, because
that was the thing that we're that handling. Can it lives?
He can't. They're like technically like at a dairy a
little bit, right, So I think what they're going with
is penny Wise is so like like like salvating this
kid's fear. For whatever reason, he wanted to get like
one more before he hibernated, because to me, it would
make no sense of if he's supposed to hibernate, if
one like gate opening, why would it be like, well,
I'm not hibernate anymore, right, I'm just gonna go back
out and keep doing more. And like it's like you said,
it is like a oh, every six years something happens
when you move these songs bets again, that's way too Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's a good that must be what it is Yeah,
that makes more sense for sure.
Speaker 1: So I think that's what it is, and I think
they'll probably do something next week where penny Wise will
just say, hey, it was just so yummy, it's so good,
and I don't know, like I agree with you. I
really like that shot because we've never seen actually, like
in the series or here, penny Wise actually kind of hibernating. Right.
Obviously he didn't he woke up, but still was kind
of that like idea of Okay, he's going down for
his long sleep and it's blood and just so you
just kind of think that I guess he's just laying
there and then whenever he's hungry, he just reaches up,
grabs some bone and then goes back down, you know.
So it's like a cool thing there. The only thing
was I was of two minds and this is just
it doesn't really make that much sense, but just bugging
me a little. Where when he gets to the Handling kid,
I love the effect where he's still like the blood
from his nose all the way down. But every time
Pennywise appears, he's always like transforming in something, right, Like
they're almost making it seem like he was in the
blood so this would stay on him, but really he
should just like he could turn into anything in the blood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind I'm kind of surprised that his hibernation
form is Pennywise. I would have thought it would be like, yeah,
more entity like whatever he actually looks like underneath all
the disguises and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess I guess not, and probably a
good idea because they don't want to like fully show
like because you know, it's tough. I think, like I
think he's supposed to be like a spider and the
chapter two they made him in a hybrid or whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was another thing that bothered me about
this episode. And maybe you did give a good defense
port of like Will was like outside this supposed barrier,
but to me again, for the parents to like leave
him there alone, it's like, oh my god, how dumb
are you? And that's just another thing that really bothers
me about just so many the little like convenience plot
things in this Like I feel like there probably should
have been like maybe maybe I don't know what it
would because I guess it is location based to some extent,
but like even they brought him with them and then
you know, he like went into another room or something
then Pennyways lured him or something. But for them to
just leave him at home after all this shit just happened,
I'm like, that does not make sense to me for
what these characters are, especially like how protective that mom,
Like when she sees her kid again, I'm giving her
more credit than the dad. But when they see Will
when they show up to the crime scene to recover
him and just like that look of relief, Oh my god,
he's okay, and then like mere hours later, like, yeah,
you just stay home. We trust that you're not gonna
leave the house even though you've done it like seventeen
times at this point, and we're gonna go leave like
right after this event. It just didn't really make sense
to me. So I might be nitpicking, but that it
I just like so many things like that have happened
in the show that it's really grind in my gears.
Speaker 1: Well, because I'm with you too. There's two things that
maybe I'm wrong on the second part, but the first
part is not even take out the penny Wise and stuff.
You just had a bunch of white people get together
and kill a bunch of African Americans, right, and you're
connected to the situation, both of you, and it's like,
what if they're gonna for yourself? And maybe I was wrong?
This is the second part. Did they say if they
were going to bring the guy that's the wanting criminal
to their house? Did they say that?
Speaker 2: I didn't catch that.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought like, what are we gonna do with him?
And I thought the handling Senior was like, oh, just
bring them our place on time, So maybe I won't.
I won't complain about that unless that happens next week
if that is the case, and then bring the guy
that's wanted for murder and just cause this whole barn
and get brought down. Also very questionable movement. Yeah, of
course he's innocent, but maybe like hotel rumors, I get it.
It's like or like, I don't know, somewhere like bringing
to the house maybe not the best idea, or at
least bring the kids somewhere else. I don't know, but
uh yeah, it feels a little easy just to be like, oh,
let's go home, right, because it's it's not just the
penny Wise stuff, and they kind of have an idea
of this stuff's going on, So I agree with you.
It's a it's just a little easy. And that's where
I was talking about. I can't remember who gets taken
in it chapter two. I guess they go down there.
But this that scene was pretty much just the exact
same that they do with Beverley in a chapter one,
right where she's on the phone, turns around, boom, he
gets her. This was a little bit different. Bill Scarsgard
does a little jump off the fridge or something like that.
But again that's like, okay, so I guess that's probably
the finale. Right as kids go down to the well,
they fight penny Wise, and I kind of hope other
than because I think the handling kid has to make
it out, I kind of hope this sounds bad. I
hope all the kids die and he's like the only
one makes it, Like they kind of give themselves. That's
kind of like, oh, well, yeah, we weren't strong enough.
Because it's just I feel like it's kind of I'm fine,
I guess with the every odd kid making out. But
if all these kids go down to penny Wise and
beat them or whatever, and then in eighties, you know,
these kids beat him again, it's like, well, he's pretty
real week, but especially in this like fire barn situation,
he was kind of popping off. He was taking all
a lot and he wasn't even taking them back. He's
just eating them right there and everything. So it just
feels like, especially in this show, and I've seen other
people bring this up, he feels a lot more powerful,
which I'm kind of fine because we've said before maybe
in the eightieses more cocky or and whatnot. But if
he again, to me loses here, it's like, well, why
in the eighties is he not like maybe prepared, like
oh man, last time, just a bunch of little kids
killed me. Maybe I shouldn't kind of play with my food.
But I don't know. Maybe next week they will be
bold and killed them all off, right, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Because who's it would be Lily, Ronnie and what's that
I always forget the other friends the shitty friend's name Lamar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the pirate ye.
Speaker 2: So obviously she's got the motivation now because of Rich
Rich's death. Yeah, And then I feel like Ronnie and
Lily's motivations also makes sense to want to go down
or even accepted their risks. So I feel like and
maybe that was part of the reason why they killed
rich Off in this episode is just to space out
some of those deaths a bit more, have a couple
episodes worth of mourning, I guess, and I mean, frick,
I feel like at least half the episodes in this
show I've had child deaths in them, which is pretty
intense stuff. But that is par for the course with
its content, which.
Speaker 1: Is crazy because they just feel like that was when
we started this podcast. I know what happened, but I
feel like that was such a such a rarity to
see in mainstream stuff, you know, not like Independent or
four and stuff and mainstream stuff. It was like, you
don't really kill kids, you don't kill dogs.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like from then we've gone John Wick and you
got it, and you got a bunch of other stuff
like Game of Thrones, Like it just feels like a
lot of the stuff is, you know, all for the course.
And yeah, they think about back to first episode, right,
they start off by killing those three kids, and now
we lost rich and you know, I liked that scene.
That's where I think I think even with that look
of the fire, which yeah, I don't think it was
the greatest because it kind of just looked like they
added an extra smoke filter to make it not look
as bad, but then it just was. It's like the
nighttime hard to see things, where it's like, okay, I
see some silhouettes, but it just doesn't look visually great.
I think maybe if you just cut even five minutes
off that scene, because I feel like there's a lot
of people just run around. I get it they're going
for like the one continued shot thing, but with this
it didn't, I won't say not feel impressive. It just
didn't feel as grandiose, because it did feel like, oh,
this is one that really feels like it's digitally altered editing,
you know, because all the smoke at any point just
oh whoosh of smoke and then all look a new
frame and they do that multiple times. But like that's
where I actually, you know, I liked the hollering trying
to save the kids or ann or yeah, hollering trying
to say the kids. I did like the rich scene
of him, you know, saving saving the girl, you know,
fun noble thing. I liked this little speech there, so
you know, I thought that was a cute moment but
in a heartfelt moment. But yeah, that's why, I'd say,
it's just that scene. Maybe take it down a little bit.
I did like penny Wise is revealed though as far
as just this, you know, lady's seeing this clown. I'll
help you out here. And then just he's just he
did a lot of biting this episode, you.
Speaker 2: Know he did. Yeah, he also had a crazy fucking
slice on that guy's head that was Yeah, that was
a wild shot. And then just takes like a nibble
out of there too.
Speaker 1: He didn't taste good. I don't think you.
Speaker 2: Don't think so well, he kind of looked like he
tasted very good.
Speaker 1: If he threw him away, right, he must have not
been that good. But yeah, and he's walking on that
meat cleaver for this episode. That's that's not what I saw.
But yeah, what did you I guess I guess to
kind of go back to the beginning because I was
gonna ask about the little resolution there at the very
beginning we get to which I actually really enjoyed all
this stuff. I like to see we go back to
maybe was this the thirties or like the nineteen.
Speaker 2: Hundreds, what'll be in right now?
Speaker 1: We're in the sixties, right.
Speaker 2: So I think it would be the yeah, it's either
thirty or it would be either the thirty or sixty year.
I think it's the thirty years before, right.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so we go back to kind of what
we've heard before of like this, you know, Pennywise a
dancing a dancing clown the Carnival Act. But I like this.
I think people have said this in the book and
I read the book a long time ago, or I
don't know if this is something that's added in some
other books because King has a connected universe. But I
kind of forgot that. I thought penny Wise posed as
his cont like I guess he did, but either I
forgot or did not know that it was an actual
man like a because last episod when they introduce it,
I was like, I don't know if I like the
idea of like p Anywise, like reprocreating or anything, like
I don't want to get into the whole like how
does this work? And does this daughter of powers? So
I like that the line where I actually liked everything
with Bill when he's doing the whole act, that was
tons of fun. I like the scene with his daughter,
like when he's just outside he's drinking his smoke and
he hates life, like he's just trying to get back
to the circus. And I love the first thing that
it's taking the shape as a kid and it walks.
It just says, oh, kids are really attracted to you.
And I thought, oh, that's great because like this it
thing is a predator, right, so it notices, Hey, how
could I feed more? How could I get more? Well,
people really like this clown. I'm gonna become this clown,
I wonder. And I guess maybe that's what the second
season would be is seeing like I'm guessing he's around
a lot. So it's just like did he did like
did they raise how much did he raise this kid
or whatnot? So I like all the past stuff. I
like the concept. When we got to the resolution of
the adult daughter, didn't really like much of that, but
I'll hand it off to you. But I was not
a fan of uh oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we got there before I go. I'm curious
about like this stuff from that last week too, like
how would you feel about her creeping around town hide
behind trees and stuff.
Speaker 1: I was fine with it then, but I'm less fine
with it now because to me, the resolution, I thought, okay,
so I guess I'll say it here. When she walks
up to him and it sounds like she gave the
information of the racist people, right, and then she walks
in the Penny way, I say, oh, well, I knew
this would bring on fear and hate and pain, and
that would bring out so to me, I thought, Okay,
this is a person that knows it's the clown or
the like. It's a supernatural thing, right, and they've bought in,
whether they think that's their dad or if something's taken
over their dad. So that, okay, we've seen that before,
Stockholm syndrome, greater power, whatever. But then when he does something,
he gives her a look and she's like, you're not
my dad. It's like, so what So that's what I
want to say this whole time. Did you think your
dad got these huge powers? Why did he disappear? Why
is he younger than you? So when I thought she
was in on the supernatural bit, I was like, oh,
I'm kind of fine they're creeping around doing stuff because
she's just kind of like a just a servant to
penny Wise, right, like his egor. But now it's just
I'm I'm left a lot more questions and it made
me dislike that stuff more last week, So I.
Speaker 2: Think I'm in a similar boat. Like feels like he
raised like five dollars in poker and she's like, oh,
I got a fool. It's like I can't, I can't
match that. That's way it's way too much money. Because yeah,
I just I really didn't. I just felt like, after
all these years, like she's obviously got something pretty crazy
going on in her brain and her mind that she's
still doing this, she's trying to find solutions. She probably
I feel like she would accept that her dad isn't
like alive anymore and whatever she's chasing is clearly not
him and like in his original form, whatever it is.
And so I don't know, maybe we'll get more of
that context next week, because she's obviously not.
Speaker 1: Yeah and shed he like do remember she's yeah, So
I guess she's still maybe doing crazy stuff, but she's
nowhere in it chapter one, right, So it's not like,
but that's.
Speaker 2: That was all penny Wise though, right the old lady.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I yes, you're right, but it's yeah, No, I
guess you're right. That is just penny Wise. So what
is she? What's she up to then you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I don't know. I think some of
the flashback stuff, some of it was okay. I think
I just and I said this either last week or
two weeks ago, but it's just more than I want
to know about this character. Like to me, it takes
away a lot of the mystery, the unknown, the jenesse Qua.
It just it just answers too many questions and is
putting too much logic to something. It's just kind of
over explaining, which I feel like a lot of this
show is kind of doing in some way. So I
don't know, I don't think it's necessarily executed poorly. I
guess I just wish I didn't have this piece of lore.
I kind of I kind of don't want this much
information on Pennywise. I like, I liked having him as
this really ambiguous creature in a sense, and I just
feel like this, I mean, there's a whole lot of
questions for her. Yeah, it's just it's just been too much.
And yeah, so the I think I'm feeling similarly on
the and the periwinkle stuff. I just yeah, I didn't
like the way she folded there at the end. So
I don't know. What do you think is going on
with that character, because like it seemed like she was
faking dead to is faking dead to get taken somewhere.
But now if she like throws a little look over
to the kids, but that is that just Pennywise like
through her body, because he's like mind controlling her at
this point because he did the he did the three
lights on her or whatever.
Speaker 1: I think it's just that, because I think it's not.
I think it is kind of some of the mind
control's kind of like the Henry Bauers thing, where Henry
Bowers is still kind of a messed up guy or kid,
but Penny Wise is gonna exploit that and make him
do certain things. I think just kind of what it'd
be the kind of influence him a little, you know,
kind of push you to go that way. And that's
where maybe she does something, I guess next week to
these kids to help out. But she looked pretty secure
in that gurney, like I don't know if she's getting
out right away, and I don't know if I need that.
And yeah, it's kind of odd because when they did
this whole Okay, I think you're my dad, You're not
my dad, because I will say, like I said, I've
I liked all that stuff, and I kind of thought, oh,
what season two could be and there could be some
interest there for me as far as I think, if
done right, there's a fun way of Okay, this guy
comes back posing as her dad, and what is that like?
As far as but I guess then too, why wouldn't
he just eat her? Right? Like? Because I just I
just thought about because I thought, oh, was there a
season there? Like season two? If they're going back that's
the plan. It's like, oh, is that the story where
instead of this time a bunch of kids figuring out,
it's this kid figuring out, oh, my dad is this
thing right? And you can kind of see these hints
and whatnot. But that's where it's just like, if anybody's
can shape shifts into anything, why would he even have
to keep the cover up? Per se shot it down
right away? I'm like, oh, that could be interesting ideas,
like oh maybe just for like an episode we saw
it here where okay with them doing it here wasn't
the wasn't the greatest, And but I do like the
idea of like how the cautu was. I love how
I hit the wig, and I love how okay when
it becomes it just becomes the full kind of melted together.
So I like the origins of taking the idea of
this clown, like, oh, I'm gonna use this to get people,
but I think the baggage what came with it out
after but you know, he was I did actually still
like Bill on that scene though, because he was a
maniacalve when she's talking to him, and I feel like
he's trying to like he's playing with her a little bit,
but I felt like he's thinking about what he's gonna do.
But then he decides all like he does that classic
turn thing and the you know, the drools coming out,
like okay's he's locked in. It's not yeah, it's over
for you, you know yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting like going back to that scene of yeah,
Pennywise the ND being like the little boy up in
like that creepy barn shed, watching like the performance down below,
seeing Oh the kids love Slash. I don't know if
they necessarily love the clown because they kind of like
are ragging on him and making fun of him and
like kicking him off the stage and stuff. But at
least he's able to like bring kids towards him, which
is really like all Pennywise actually cares about doesn't necessarily
need to be liked in that same way, just needs
to want to get interacted with, I guess is the
way to put it. And then but you would think like, okay, well,
what's you'd have to think like as these years pass
and the circus when we skip thirty years from now,
thirty years from that with chapter one, chapter two, and
the circus isn't really a thing that's sought after anymore,
and kids aren't just like, oh, I want to be
near this clown as much because the perception changes, like
I don't know, would it Pennywise then not? Or yeah,
the entity whatever it, would it not want to update
its appearance and maybe adapt into something that's a bit
more desirable. And that's where it almost felt like, oh,
is he like passing now over to this woman, like
this daughter character, like maybe she'd be a good way
to lure people in. But obviously that's like not what
happens in the future, so that's not what he's doing there.
He just recruiting her for some other particular reason. But
I guess that just makes me wonder too, like why
hasn't he reconstructed his identity in the future to something
that's fit more fitting for I don't know. I guess
that those movies take place in like nineteen nineties and
like twenty fifteen or whatever.
Speaker 3: Eighties for that one, right, eighties, but even for now, right,
because there's I don't like in the sixties, like I
know there was probably like circuses around, but I don't, like,
I don't know if that was the thing.
Speaker 2: It's not something you're just like seeing in past yet
like you have.
Speaker 1: To in that era. It makes sense, right because it's
like it's a form entertainment. And also that even which
I like they talk about the circus and he kind
of talks about he's missing it's like, oh, one dame
and I get back there. So it kind of feels
like these carnival shows kind of might be for like
the lower class pool, right, like that couldn't afford to
go to the circus. So this is a clown that
comes in the town, does some entertainment, and you know,
you throw them a couple of checkls or something like that.
So that's where it's like in this era, it's completely
believable but even in this show in the sixties, obviously
in the sixties fifties, we were not alive. I'm just
trying to think even back then, like what would you do?
And I guess maybe I wonder if I'm trying to
answer my question, like that's why we didn't see the
clown too much? If they could say that, right, because
even the fifties and sixties was a clown, you know?
Was that was that something that kids were flocking to
and everything? I like, I don't think so, and then
they and even then too, like when we get to
the eighties, I guess he he is penny Wise a
few times, but I guess I don't know.
Speaker 2: Does he really care if they're kids? Though, I don't know,
because I think part of the Pennywise identity is that
was a good one to lure in kids. But I
don't know if he yes, he doesn't really care too
much about it actually being kids, right, it just needs
to be human flesh presumably, or like it.
Speaker 1: Goes back and forth, right, because I think if you
watch it chapter.
Speaker 2: One, maybe he just feels like kids can like he
can pull more fear out of them because kids are
generally more scared than adults.
Speaker 1: I guess I think that's I think they are more
like desirable in that way. So I think it's just
like because then it one, he goes mostly after kids.
It too, I think there's a couple in here. But
in this show, I feel like he's killed like even
in this episode, he's killed a lot of adults, right,
So yeah, but yeah, and I guess that's the same thing.
Even like when he's going we talked about already, when
he's taking his hibernation, why is as his form? But
I guess I think they do. I know it's dumb,
but I think in the books they do just say
something like all that was his fair that's its fairite form.
Speaker 2: Why.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I guess it's just oh, I
like being this clanet. Yeah, that's like he's coming back
to you know, because like really again, yeah, and the
like clowns are not a big thing in our age,
like when chapter two that was twenty seventeen, it's like
there's not carnivals or clowns are going Like clowns are
regarded as a creepy thing now most of the time too, right,
So but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I that's interesting and also going back
to the see when he's talking to it, or like
when when he before Bill has been captured and he's
like talking to the kid who comes out of the woods,
and the kid's like, I don't know what happened to
my parents, and he's like, they're dead. Kid Like he
says something super fucking weird.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, that's not what they're doing. He says,
my parents are missing. And then and then Bill says, oh,
mine are missing too. They're dead. He said his pan.
Speaker 2: I thought I swear he said they're dead kid. I
was like, what the hef like, this is not Pennywise,
what a strange thing to say to this guy.
Speaker 1: But I did like when the kid's like, can you
help me? And he's like, no, I'm not helping you.
But then he did help him. But I liked how
he was. But yeah, that's it's a.
Speaker 2: Very funny thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know, I guess it was fun. I
like they give him the whole big bulb gap and everything.
It was. It was fun sy. And I'll do something
a little bit different there, and I will is non thing.
But I just want to say this because I should
have mentioned this in the military. I completely forgot. I
hated everything. How Hamblin came in with the one gun
and like like there's like fifty people guns on him.
Speaker 2: He's like don't It's like another guy comes up behind
him when he's in Ramar's room, Like that guy, there's
no reason he would not immediately shoot him in the
head or leg or arm or something. When that's like
the head captain guy right there, and look.
Speaker 1: At what's going on in this town, Like they could
clearly get away with this thing, you know. So that
felt the little anti climactic where he just walked in
with one single pistol. I'm like, don't you dare burn it.
I'll take you. I's like, this is unbelievable at all.
I just just find a different way to get there,
you know, just have just have him come angry and
remarks say let's just talk. I get what they're trying
to do, make like put the stakes up. But to me,
it just kind of felt a little a little cheesey
at times, you know with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess they just wanted the dramatic timing of
like the claw putting the thing into the furnace and
then like oh yeah, unturn it. You know, don't drop
it in there.
Speaker 1: Which I guess. So I wonder where Dick ended up
because he was in the beginning of this episode, which
again I left last week, and they brought the wanted
guy and then I go, thanks for helping, I say,
I want nothing to do with you. The poor guy,
he wanted nothing to do in the situation, and just
at the bar gets blown and.
Speaker 2: Now he's getting all these disturbing dreams of like the
people who just died or whatever, like they're seeing their
souls leave their body.
Speaker 1: He agreed to none of this and all these things
are after him, but no, I kind of I liked that,
like when he was explaining kind of the method of
the box, and I think this strips in a little
last week where I wasn't here, but just the idea
of well, how you can contain it. And now it's
just kind of he's saying that anyone's gonna remove that
box and they're all there, right. But I think at
the same time, I think now he's doing what he
did it for the first time. We're last week he
said like, hey, I see these dead things, but if
I don't acknowledge them, they don't acknowledge me. So I
like that now he actually acknowledged one and he's gonna
fall it. I think that's gonna be what he's up
to next week. He's falling that kind of a Native
American character to find something, some sort of help. But
that's why I like now where it's like, okay, it's
kind of a master of his powers a little bit
where he would don't talk to him, don't talk to him,
but now he talked, and they're kind of helping with
the situation, right, so, and I think that's a good
to me. Just tied later on for a vice Kives
the Dan and whatnot. But there's one scene where it's
near the end when he's in there and it's just
all the dead people coming around and grounding everything, and
uh uh yeah, And I still I like, uh just
for the Stephen Kings, I like Penny Wise talking to
Dick Hall run It's just it's just like a funny,
just like thinking about these two entities together. But yeah,
I think there's some good, like creepy imagery there. And yeah,
same thing. Everyone's burned up run around, Dick's just seeing
dead soldiers walk by. Shee's like he's going through a
whole different thing than ever.
Speaker 2: And this is like because it was last week the
one where he was just like at the bottom of
the bottle, just like totally yeah. So it's like this
has not been a good well several weeks for him
in a row. Because then even though before that was
when they went in the sewer ray that was yeah,
that was episode five.
Speaker 1: I think that was lost and had those backs of
his grandfather and everything.
Speaker 2: I feel like is he didn't have like a cheesy
like I'm gonna go find Strider like era line where
he's like, I need to go to like a calm
mountain hotel where there is no weird shit going on
and barely anyone around.
Speaker 1: I don't So here's the thing. I think it will
be fifty to fifty where I don't think it'll be
like shiny one, but I bet it could be like
a in inference to something else in the King world,
like another location or something like real. Yeah. Yeah, that's
why I think not even to set up anything just
to be like, oh, that's where it gets from X,
Y and Z. The most I can't remember where the
Overlook hotel's placed. Maybe he says he's like, oh, I
got family in you know, Utah. I don't really yeah, yeah,
exactly that. So that's the most I could see. But
I don't need I don't need to see him pulling
up to a hotel like checking in and like well,
you know, and I don't need to see like a
young Jack Nicholson like I to me, what they've done
with Dick, I think has actually been for me the
perfect because I know I felt like the military thing,
and definitely in our discord, the biggest thing was like,
oh this character in here. I think it was different
When I kind of thought always going to be in
there for an episode, that's easy, but when it became
a supporting character and I actually quite like the actor.
For me, this thing is actually landed. Like I think
it worked out. It worked well. I think there's still
writing issues of it, but I think I've enjoyed the
incorporation of this character in world things, and it makes
me curious for if they do a season two and three,
if they ever tried to incorporate like other Stephen King
characters or askings right, because the guy has I don't know,
I feel like he's probably writen a hundred books. Could
that I could be wrong, but maybe I don't know.
I'm gonna look that up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think he has probably all around is
my favorite character in this series, and that's for me,
like less than you and Taylor like obviously have seen
the Shining, but I, you know, wasn't like jumping out
of my seat. Oh my god, I can't wait to
see this character in another thing. So it's just like
on his own merit. And yeah, it has been a
slow build, but every episode he's had some really interesting
story going on. Acting is really good, We're getting some
weird imagery going with it, and yeah, I just feel
like some of the themes of his weird ability he's
really pair well with the it Pennywise stuff and fear
and getting into people's minds and all that the stuff.
So yeah, I think it's really really well of.
Speaker 1: That scene of them together too, like maybe Dick using
some magic stuff or shining stuff to kind of avert him.
Speaker 2: But I don't think do you like, do you think
he because I assume we're going back into Sewers next week? Yeah,
is Hallerin going back into Sewers next week? I feel
like maybe I feel like maybe he's I almost could
feel like he's like wrapped up his storyline at this point.
I think he can't be right in the penultimate but
I feel like, I don't know what else you're doing
with him.
Speaker 1: No, I think he'll be there for sure because he
was following that ghost character. I think it'll be he'll
team up with that other kid and they'll like maybe
help put the the blaw like that sort of something
back to like cage penny Wise. That's kind of my thing,
especially because Hollaran was talking about, you know, the whole
box scenario. It's kind of a full circle if he
kind of box up penny Wise, like literally right, if
he helps with that situation of putting another steak down there.
So I think the kids are in the well or
doing whatever stuff with the clown. I think holl Ren's
kind of was the other maybe Handling as Well's helping out,
Like I feel like the adults will be maybe because
and also Handling knows about them leaving the door open, right,
the idea.
Speaker 2: Of I guess sign kids missing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that might go into but I think as
he has an information, he might tell that to Halloran
and like that's a bigger deal. Okay, we got to
close this back up it was the way it is
because I also think without I think that's also another
moment they'll give Halluran is the army's gonna go to
and be like, oh, we need your help, and he's
gonna turn them down right because without him they can't
find those eleven other pieces. So if they put that
one true, they put that one back.
Speaker 2: So he has a lot of leverage now that he
was able to finally deliver on the thing I wanted.
Speaker 1: So I think between the comb of what happened in
that barn and then what the military is doing, I
think they're gonna give him a moment to kind of
give a big like f you to that place. And
even then I could see I don't know if that
that sheriff is getting killed, the guy who used to
be the sheriff, but remember in episode one when he
saw Hollerin and his buddy's drinking the bar and he
kind of shushed them out of there. I don't know
if it was like a full circle moment there where
he gets the better of him, whether it's like exposing
him or even killing him like like, because it's not
a character that doesn't deserve death or anything. Like that.
So I think there's a few.
Speaker 2: Because I don't know why those guys would go into
the sewer.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, they unless they are chasing somebody, right, Like
maybe they're like, oh like if that the wanted dad
was down like, oh he's down there, we're gonna go
you know. Maybe yeah, that's the only thing. So, but
I think how Rur next week gets to give a
couple uh Mia Kopas.
Speaker 2: So yeah, why do you think penny Wise chose to
I don't know what to call this thing. Try I'm
gonna call it trianglean Will? Why do you think he
did that to him instead of just eating him on
the spot in this house?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, because I guess he does that
to Bet. I think it's just it's just like it.
I guess that's the ones he likes. It's the one
I think those are the tasty ones that he wants
to keep around for a little bit, so it's better
to But it's weird because sometimes he does that, he's
like taking over their body or influencing them, and other
times they're just floating. So I don't know. I guess
it's kind of like it's a it's a meal. That's
good to wrap up and put in the freezer. I
guess you know so. But the real reason is just
so the kids will fall him down there, you know,
obviously the story reason. I don't know why exactly.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know how much like anywise keeps
track of just general dairy goings on, because I feel
like he often will pick on kids who whose parents
have been affected by the kind of illness of dairy
to the point where obviously they care that their child's missing,
but like after a while, they just kind of give
up and they're not gonna, you know, go on a
death a witch hunt to try and track this thing down,
Whereas I feel like that's not gonna be the case
for Will. Like his parents, obviously, his mom is like
the least poisoned person in this whole town. His dad
obviously has his issues and obviously hit him I think,
you know, last week or two weeks ago, but he's
still like he is not poisoned to the point where
he isn't going to do everything in his power, and
he potentially has a lot of power and a lot
of friends in powerful places to and Howard probably as well.
That actually probably is how Hollarin gets involved, is threw
handling just to confuse the names again. But uh yeah,
so I don't know that that does seem like a
really risky one to wrap up instead of just instant kill.
But I don't know. Maybe it's a whole ploy to
get more people to come to the well, and you
can get even more people before he goes into hibernation
or something. So we'll see whore that is.
Speaker 1: You'd think almost penny Wise would want that. You think
you'd want the parents that would go looking because you
know that's just more food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like maybe he that's like prime fear right there,
Like yea, the kid's gone missing, they're in the sewer.
That's just good stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I guess we'll see you next week. I
did bring this up to uh confirm it seem King
has written sixty five novels and then over two hundred
short stories, So there you go. So not one hundred novels, but.
Speaker 2: Definitely there's somewhere Handling can go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think so one of those short stories
got something, So yeah, you got anything else?
Speaker 2: No, I do I feel like we I guess there
wasn't a whole lot really with the kids, Like, we
didn't get any school scenes this week, so I think
we kind of covered it all.
Speaker 1: Is that one? Seeing the end with the ladies kind
of hugging it out because they went through like obviously
lots of traumas together, like they've all kind of lost something.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, they have their little I keep only calling
it the lighthouse, but they're a little hideout where they
go pack up some of Rich's stuff and they're talking
about the plane and whatnot. But yeah, yeah, that's all
I think for me, that's.
Speaker 1: All she wrote. Yeah, Okay, well then next week we'll
be uh back with the finale. We'll end it there
and then see what it is because some ratings and
uh yeah, seea they close us off and see again,
it's interesting if they want it, they've set I thought
they were setting some stuff up with the daughter to
be like, oh, we'll leave that out for season two.
But I feel like that kind of was a closed book.
So it will be interesting because I don't maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think there's many shows that their idea for
this season is to go back nearly thirty years for
a fall up season, right, So that's it's interesting of
do you do something at the end of that episode
next week where you set that up or does it
just end the like, Okay, we closed off the sixties
fifties and the next season we just pick up. I
don't know, and I guess we'll see. I really hope
we don't like have like James Ramar's kid characters like
a main character, you know, like we I'm not invested
in that. You know, I love James Ramar. I think
they kind of wasted him in this show, you know what.
We know he can do a lot more and I
don't think we saw it here.
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, this this show, like in Hindsight, even
without the finale included, it's like kind of a ton
of flashbacks, like probably at least an hour and a
half or something of flashbacks, and some of these are
really long sequences. That's quite a lot. And you, yeah,
you wonder what that would look like in a season
two where we're going back to those eras and stuff.
So I don't know. I guess you'd have more of
like the previous eras, but I don't know. That just
feels like kind of messy, But I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. When they started doing those flashbacks.
It felt odd to me because it's if that was
the and it's not a rumor, it's that the care
creators have said, like, oh, if we do more, we'd
like to go back. And I like the idea of okay,
every season is a different era, right, because that's fun
for setting and casting location. You can do a lot
of stuff to see how Derek, especially if we can
get to like the like the nineteen oh four oh
three air, like that's I think tons yeah on like
really like we're close to eighteen hundreds, like, yeah, what
was Pennywise doing back then? You know? So but uh yeah,
we'll see, we'll watch that next week. We'll get Taylor
hopefully back for that, and uh promise you will not
be boring.
Speaker 2: Bye bye see yea