Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Wind, Chile for part two
Speaker 1: of our series about the unexplained deaths of the Jamison family. Robin,
Speaker 1: do you want to catch everyone up on when we
Speaker 1: talked about in our previous episode?
Speaker 2: Well, I previously mentioned that this was featured on the
Speaker 2: very first episode of Disappeared that I ever watched. It
Speaker 2: involves a family from Oklahoma, forty four year old Bobby Jamison,
Speaker 2: his forty year old wife Sherilyn, and their six year
Speaker 2: old daughter, Madison. This is in October of two thousand
Speaker 2: and nine. At the time, neither of the two parents
Speaker 2: were working. They were on disability because of injuries and
Speaker 2: various mental health issues. They had pulled Madison out of
Speaker 2: school to homeschooler, and were known for being kind of
Speaker 2: a private and reclusive family, and it was pretty concerning
Speaker 2: because they were displaying like a lot of paranoid and
Speaker 2: erratic behavior. They thought their home was haunted. They thought
Speaker 2: that Madison was talking to the ghost of a deceased girl.
Speaker 2: And then one day they decided to go out into
Speaker 2: a remote area of Latimer County in order to supposedly
Speaker 2: purchase a plot of land. But they soon vanished without
Speaker 2: a trace and their abandoned pickup truck would be found.
Speaker 2: It had the family dog inside, who was near death,
Speaker 2: though thankfully she was saved, and the strangest detail was
Speaker 2: thirty two dollars in cash hidden under the driver's seat,
Speaker 2: which was presumably going to be used to purchase the land,
Speaker 2: but no one could figure out why it was left there,
Speaker 2: and pretty much four years passed by without anyone having
Speaker 2: any idea what happened to the Jamisons. There were a
Speaker 2: number of different theories involving them possibly being murdered by
Speaker 2: a white supremacy group or being murdered by obviously strange father,
Speaker 2: but there was really no evidence pointing in to any direction.
Speaker 2: And then, finally, four years after they were a last scene,
Speaker 2: in November of twenty thirteen, the remains of all three
Speaker 2: victims were found in the woods, about three miles away
Speaker 2: from the spot where their truck had been abandoned. They
Speaker 2: found the skulls and their bones scattered around there, but
Speaker 2: 'ren able to determine the exact cause of death of
Speaker 2: any of the three victims. There's been debate about whether
Speaker 2: they were the victim of a homicide by an outside
Speaker 2: party or because of the parent's erratic behavior. Possibly one
Speaker 2: or both of them committed a murder suicide where they
Speaker 2: killed Madison and then ended their own lives. But of
Speaker 2: course no gun or murder weapon was found, and no
Speaker 2: one knows how they actually died. And sadly, it's now
Speaker 2: been almost eleven years since the remains were discovered, and
Speaker 2: the investigation has pretty much hit a standstill. And that's
Speaker 2: why we're talking about it on today's episode.
Speaker 1: Less than three miles from the remote dirt road where
Speaker 1: their truck was parked shows that their deaths definitely occurred
Speaker 1: sometime after they arrived in the area. Now, even though
Speaker 1: a very extensive search effort was performed and failed to
Speaker 1: turn up anything. We've reiterated so many times on this
Speaker 1: podcast that even the best search operations will fail to
Speaker 1: turn off human remains, especially when you're dealing with a
Speaker 1: rugged wilderness area. There are so many missing persons cases
Speaker 1: like this where the victims remains or partial remains are
Speaker 1: discovered in the same area they disappeared from years after
Speaker 1: the fact, meaning that the original search effort missed them.
Speaker 1: I do think that's likely what happened here in the
Speaker 1: Jamison case, though some interesting comments were provided by Tim Graham,
Speaker 1: the deer hunter who found their skulls. Even though the
Speaker 1: skulls had sunk into the soil a little bit, Graham
Speaker 1: said they were visible and lying next to an easily
Speaker 1: accessible trail, so we openly expressed his surprise that the
Speaker 1: searchers never found them back in two thousand and nine. However,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of miserable weather and heavy rains
Speaker 1: during that time period, some of which took before the
Speaker 1: truck was even discovered, and the original search team believed
Speaker 1: that the remains might have been obscured by falling leaves. Indeed,
Speaker 1: it does seem far fetched that someone would abduct all
Speaker 1: three family members and murder them at another location, and
Speaker 1: then return back to the area to dispose of their bodies.
Speaker 1: But another interesting detail that Graham noticed was a hole
Speaker 1: in the top of Bobby's skull, which he believed may
Speaker 1: have been a bullet wound. Will investigators said that the
Speaker 1: hole might have been caused by a coyote who not
Speaker 1: on the skull's edges. Graham replied, quote, ain't no coyote
Speaker 1: did that? Well, since no gun could be found at
Speaker 1: the scene and there were no traces of any bullets
Speaker 1: or slugs. It's never been conclusively proven that any of
Speaker 1: the victims were shot. One of the reasons the murder
Speaker 1: suicide theory has gotten some traction is because a twenty
Speaker 1: two caliber gun Sherylyn owned, like we mentioned earlier in
Speaker 1: our last episode, was never accounted for. But we also
Speaker 1: can't be one hundred percent certain she even had it
Speaker 1: on her when she traveled to Latimer County. I don't
Speaker 1: know how common it is for animals to pick up
Speaker 1: guns off the ground and carry them away, but I
Speaker 1: guess that provides a potential explanation for how a gun
Speaker 1: could have disappeared from the scene if it was used.
Speaker 1: The area was also apparently prone to flash floods, so
Speaker 1: that's been pushed forward as a potential explanation for why
Speaker 1: the gun wasn't there. Like given that the three victims'
Speaker 1: remains were all found together in the same spot, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how much flooding took place.
Speaker 3: When you look at this and you ask, Okay, is
Speaker 3: there are a gun involved, Like we talked about on
Speaker 3: episode one, I think that it's hard to make that
Speaker 3: determination given the conditions the bodies were found in. Unless
Speaker 3: there was a clear indication of the bullet wound, which
Speaker 3: I think would have also been confirmed when their bodies
Speaker 3: were recovered and the remains were sent for examination. It's
Speaker 3: difficult to say this looks like a gunshot wound because
Speaker 3: they were scattered. There was injuries to the bones because
Speaker 3: of the weather and because of the elements, and because
Speaker 3: of the animals that were taking them and scattering them.
Speaker 3: So it's really difficult. But it's scary when you think
Speaker 3: about the twenty two missing and you remember that letter
Speaker 3: that was found. It was in the truck, correct, that
Speaker 3: eleven page letter. It was yeah, okay, So to me,
Speaker 3: she leaves with that briefcase. It's possible she had her
Speaker 3: gun with her at the time because they couldn't find it,
Speaker 3: and there's this eleven page like hate letter that she's
Speaker 3: written to her husband. Doesn't seem like something I would
Speaker 3: take along on a family trip when we're going to
Speaker 3: have fun or go on vacation. She's clearly not happy
Speaker 3: with him at the time, and I feel like that
Speaker 3: would be that motivation for either her or Bobby to
Speaker 3: actually act out in reaction to that letter, like why
Speaker 3: would you bring it with you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, we're going to talk about the letter
Speaker 2: a bit more later on. I mean, it's possible that
Speaker 2: she could have written that at a previous time, and
Speaker 2: possibly Bobby and Cherylyn had made out by then and
Speaker 2: the letter just happened to be in the truck. We
Speaker 2: did another case like that in the early days of
Speaker 2: The Path Went Chile, with the murders of Mike Reamer
Speaker 2: and Diana Robertson, where their little girl was found abandoned
Speaker 2: at an apartment store while their bodies were found in
Speaker 2: the woods, and there was some ambiguity about whether Mike
Speaker 2: might have murdered Diana because he was known for being abusive,
Speaker 2: and there was like a note found in the truck
Speaker 2: that said I'm sorry Diana, But we don't know if
Speaker 2: he wrote that on the day of the crime, or
Speaker 2: if it was just written on a previous occasion and
Speaker 2: it just happened to be in the truck. So it
Speaker 2: could be the same thing with Sharlyn.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to venture a guest and say that
Speaker 1: their truck was likely pretty messy, so there could be
Speaker 1: any number of dates that Sharlyn might have wrote that letter,
Speaker 1: especially since her family members had said and we mentioned
Speaker 1: in our previous episode that this was typical of Shrilyn
Speaker 1: when she was going through her bipolar depression or bipolar mania,
Speaker 1: that she would have very extreme emotion and she would
Speaker 1: express them in letters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it almost felt like this could have been
Speaker 2: like a starting over for the couple, that even though
Speaker 2: they had some problems, they were going to go purchase
Speaker 2: this parcel of land and maybe just get a fresh
Speaker 2: start when they moved to this new location. So maybe
Speaker 2: whatever she written that wrote on that letter, maybe days
Speaker 2: or weeks earlier, it had all calmed down by that point. Now,
Speaker 2: in any unsolved case involving a deceased family, no one
Speaker 2: wants to flat out accuse parents of killing their own
Speaker 2: child before taking their own lives unless there's definitive proof
Speaker 2: of that. But we also cannot ignore the fact that
Speaker 2: there were a number of major warning signs with Bobby
Speaker 2: and Sharlin. Both of them were on disability and could
Speaker 2: not work as Bobby suffered from severe chronic back pain,
Speaker 2: while Cherylyn struggled with bipolar disorder and depression and made
Speaker 2: a failed suicide attempt only one month before she went missing.
Speaker 2: The couple seemed to believe their house was haunted by spirits,
Speaker 2: and Charlyn wrote cryptic graffiti on a storage container outside
Speaker 2: their residence in order to give off the impression that
Speaker 2: she was a witch and scare her neighbors. But according
Speaker 2: to people who knew her, Sheldon may have just been
Speaker 2: playing things up because she did not like her neighbors
Speaker 2: and figured that the best way to ensure they left
Speaker 2: her alone was to make them think she was crazy.
Speaker 2: Of course, the biggest red flag was, like we said,
Speaker 2: the angry eleven page letter, which was found in the
Speaker 2: Jamison's pickup truck, where Sheerlyn expressed a lot of anger
Speaker 2: towards Bobby and seemed intent on ending the marriage. Given
Speaker 2: how they seemed to believe that Madison was communicating with
Speaker 2: malevolent spirits, it's possible that either or both of them
Speaker 2: could have suffered a complete mental breakdown and convinced themselves
Speaker 2: that ending Madison's life was the best thing to do
Speaker 2: before they killed themselves. While there are a lot of
Speaker 2: things about the Jameson's actions which don't make any sense,
Speaker 2: all rules pretty much go out the window when you're
Speaker 2: dealing with victims who were suffering from potentially serious mental
Speaker 2: health issues and could also be under the influence of drugs.
Speaker 2: While no gun was found at the scene. There were
Speaker 2: a lot of empty pill bottles inside the truck, so
Speaker 2: if a suicide took place, it could have been the
Speaker 2: result of some sort of overdose, which would have been
Speaker 2: impossible to determine after they've been skeleton remains for four
Speaker 2: years now. On the Disappeared episode, the family's friends and
Speaker 2: her relatives acknowledge that even though Bobby and Shrilyn had
Speaker 2: gone through a rough patch, their decision to relocate and
Speaker 2: buy a plot of land in the mountains was their
Speaker 2: attempt to make a fresh start. While Sharerlyn's later gave
Speaker 2: off the impression that she felt a lot of hatred
Speaker 2: towards Bobby, we technically don't know when exactly it was written.
Speaker 2: For all we know, it could have been written weeks
Speaker 2: earlier and left inside the truck. But things that actually
Speaker 2: improved for them since then.
Speaker 3: So one of the things that I was thinking is
Speaker 3: that with Madison, if they truly believe she's dealing with
Speaker 3: the demonic entity and she's talking to this demon and
Speaker 3: the demons have possessed their home, and they're asking their
Speaker 3: pastor things like is there a bullet we can get
Speaker 3: to eliminate these spirits? In our house, Like, how do
Speaker 3: we get rid of the evil that's here? It almost
Speaker 3: give me flashes of like Andrea Yates who thought that
Speaker 3: she had to kill her kids one to prevent Satan
Speaker 3: coming back, and that was her way to like save
Speaker 3: her babies, was to eliminate their life, right because she
Speaker 3: was so scared of the evil coming in their life.
Speaker 3: So when you guys described that to me earlier in
Speaker 3: the episode before talking about how they were literally going
Speaker 3: to their pastor in desperation to get this evil out
Speaker 3: of their home, and we're even turning to Satanic Bibles
Speaker 3: and witchcraft to see if they could free themselves from
Speaker 3: from that darkness. They're claiming their baby was engaged with
Speaker 3: this demonic force. It was dark and you know, malicious.
Speaker 3: So could they have said, we have to get rid
Speaker 3: of her, and if we do that, I want to
Speaker 3: be with her, and they could have taken their pills
Speaker 3: to overdose. I think that's very possible strangulation or even
Speaker 3: overdosing her. But strangulation would be a way that you
Speaker 3: wouldn't see any markings on the bones that were clear
Speaker 3: weapon wounds. It would be something that would obviously disappear
Speaker 3: or dissipate after you just had the bones there, right,
Speaker 3: unless they happen to find the broken hyoid bone or
Speaker 3: something like that, But you would think that that is
Speaker 3: one possibility is saying I'm going to spare my child's
Speaker 3: life to save her and then I don't want to
Speaker 3: deal with life without her.
Speaker 1: One thing we can to ignore, too, is the fact
Speaker 1: that the greatest predictor of homicidality is suicidality. So the
Speaker 1: fact that Sherilyn had a suicide attempt one month prior
Speaker 1: to all of these deaths is something that statistically would
Speaker 1: likely make her the most likely perpetrator if it were
Speaker 1: to be between her and Bobby. Would that be correct
Speaker 1: our in house criminologist doctor Ashey Wellman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. We have this idea that they were both
Speaker 3: obsessed with death. They clearly didn't fear death, and Sherilyn
Speaker 3: had already shown that she was at a point where
Speaker 3: she didn't care about living anymore. It was more important
Speaker 3: to her to take her own life and get out
Speaker 3: of whatever situation was haunting her than to fight through it.
Speaker 3: And so I agree, once that boundary gets cross and
Speaker 3: life is no longer valuable to you, or it feels
Speaker 3: safer to not be here. I think it opens up
Speaker 3: a whole realm of possibilities of what other options you
Speaker 3: have to eliminate yourself and others.
Speaker 2: I remember when I first heard the detail about the
Speaker 2: empty pill bottles, like that was my number one theory,
Speaker 2: that they went into the woods and the overdose, like
Speaker 2: they force fed Madison some pills before they took them themselves.
Speaker 2: But then I'm thinking, why are they leaving the empty
Speaker 2: pill bottles in the truck when they're found three miles away,
Speaker 2: Like what they empty the bottles and then just carry
Speaker 2: the pills with them Like that doesn't make a lot
Speaker 2: of logical sense. So it's very possible that it could
Speaker 2: just be that they ran out of medication at an
Speaker 2: earlier time and left the pill bottles there and they
Speaker 2: have nothing to do with the case.
Speaker 1: However, there has been speculation the Jamison's trip to look
Speaker 1: at Land was just a cover story for something more nefarious,
Speaker 1: such as drug dealing. Well, no direct evidence has ever
Speaker 1: been found to prove that Bobby and Sherland were dealing
Speaker 1: or using drugs. I'm not say prize that some people
Speaker 1: have attempted to link their odd behavior to a methamphetamine addiction,
Speaker 1: since Oklahoma has always been known for having a major
Speaker 1: meth problem. The discovery of the thirty two thousand dollars
Speaker 1: under the truck driver's seat has also fueled speculation about
Speaker 1: drug dealing, since that seems like a lot of cash
Speaker 1: for two unemployed parents on disability to be carrying around.
Speaker 1: But before we start digging into all these theories, let's
Speaker 1: look at the circumstances of how the Jamison's wound up
Speaker 1: in a remote mountainous area of Latimer County. To begin with,
Speaker 1: we do know that they already drove to the spot
Speaker 1: the day before they went missing, as a local resident
Speaker 1: confirmed having interacted with them, and since Bobby asked a
Speaker 1: number of questions about what it was like to live
Speaker 1: in the area, this does give off the impression that
Speaker 1: he was serious about buying land there. Interestingly enough, if
Speaker 1: you search online, you'll find a blog titled keep the
Speaker 1: Search Alive containing an old post from January twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: written by an online s sleuth who decided to interview
Speaker 1: some people connected to the case during the time period
Speaker 1: that Jamisons were still missing. This person claimed that they
Speaker 1: spoke to the resident who encountered the Jamisons and learned
Speaker 1: that she showed various properties on Panola Mountain for a
Speaker 1: real estate company. Apparently, the woman offered to show Bobby
Speaker 1: the property he was interested in buying, but he declined
Speaker 1: her offer and asked for the GPS coordinates for the
Speaker 1: spot instead. I mean, it's possible that Bobby simply wanted
Speaker 1: to look at the property on his own, but you
Speaker 1: could also infer that he did not want the real
Speaker 1: estate lady there because he had something else planned. What
Speaker 1: the biggest issue I have with his theory about the
Speaker 1: Jamisons traveling there to participate in a drug deal or
Speaker 1: some sort of illegal transaction is why would they bring
Speaker 1: their six year old daughter along with them? If Bobby
Speaker 1: was involved in something potentially dangerous, might not have Chrylyn
Speaker 1: stay at home with Madison or leave the child in
Speaker 1: the care of someone else. If they wanted to scout
Speaker 1: a location that they were planning to make their new home,
Speaker 1: then yes, it makes a lot more sense to bring
Speaker 1: Madison there. And then there's the fact that the Jamisons
Speaker 1: brought the family puppy, Maizie to the location and left
Speaker 1: or locked inside the truck, which nearly led to her
Speaker 1: starving to death. I mean, perhaps we shouldn't be attempting
Speaker 1: to apply standard logic to the Jamison's actions, but if
Speaker 1: Bobby and Sherlyn were always planning on some sort of
Speaker 1: murder suicide, it just seems exceptionally cruel to lock their
Speaker 1: dog up to slowly die over the course of several days,
Speaker 1: rather than simply shooting her. By all accounts, Madison was
Speaker 1: completely attached to Maisie and considered the dog to be
Speaker 1: her best friend, so she likely would have had a
Speaker 1: meltdown if someone attempted to separate them against her will.
Speaker 1: This is why it's tempting to believe that an outside
Speaker 1: party drove the Jamisons or forced them to walk to
Speaker 1: the location they were found while keeping the dog locked
Speaker 1: in the truck. This wouldn't be the first case I've
Speaker 1: seen in which someone had no qualms about murdering multiple people,
Speaker 1: including a child, but drew the line at heart me
Speaker 1: an animal.
Speaker 3: I think when you look at this too, for me
Speaker 3: the animal, why wouldn't you do the same with the animal.
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you get someone to board the baby or
Speaker 3: watch your fur baby and say listen, we'll be back
Speaker 3: in three days. And you really have no intention of
Speaker 3: coming home, even if the plan was to do a
Speaker 3: murder suicide kind of event. I also have been there
Speaker 3: where you're looking at real estate and you don't want
Speaker 3: the pressure of a real estate agent trying to convince
Speaker 3: you to buy the property, so you simply just want
Speaker 3: to go by and peek at it. It would make
Speaker 3: sense to take Madison at that point and the family dog,
Speaker 3: like we're gonna go out there. We're going to look
Speaker 3: at this property, let the dog lose, let the baby
Speaker 3: run around and play, and just see if we feel
Speaker 3: like this is a place we want to be. Find
Speaker 3: it very interesting that Bobby's asking people about what it's
Speaker 3: like to live there. It's almost like he has that
Speaker 3: intent of saying, I want to see if this is
Speaker 3: the right place for my family, and he's actually inquiring
Speaker 3: about things that would make it livable and safe for
Speaker 3: his family to be there. It is interesting, though, when
Speaker 3: you find this dog locked up. Although when we talk
Speaker 3: about true crime, we tease about it that people, you know,
Speaker 3: they love to watch the true crime part of the case,
Speaker 3: but once you hurt an animal, well you've gone way
Speaker 3: too far. Could someone have been willing to lock that
Speaker 3: dog in the car to hope that it survived, or
Speaker 3: could the dog have been one that made them uncomfortable
Speaker 3: or scared that they might attack while hurting their owner.
Speaker 3: That's a possibility too, so they locked the dog in
Speaker 3: the car. It just seems bizarre, Like you said, if
Speaker 3: I'm going off to complete suicide, I don't bring my family,
Speaker 3: I don't bring the dog. If I'm doing a murder suicide,
Speaker 3: why did I bring the dog and not execute it? Too,
Speaker 3: very very bizarre scenario. Bobby is showing signs of actually
Speaker 3: being interested in the property, but some of the other
Speaker 3: steps make it seem like was he preparing for something
Speaker 3: else as well, or was it maybe sherry Lynn who
Speaker 3: was preparing the darkness while Bobby was excited about buying
Speaker 3: this property.
Speaker 2: That is true because if Bobby was planning a murder suicide,
Speaker 2: it really doesn't make much sense that he would stop
Speaker 2: by and ask for directions, because from his point of view,
Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter where we go. If we're going
Speaker 2: to end things, we can just go to some random,
Speaker 2: remote area. We don't have to pick a specific property.
Speaker 2: So his behavior does demonstrate that he seemed to be
Speaker 2: legitimately interested in buying land. But of course that doesn't
Speaker 2: rule out the possibility that Sherilyn was always planning to
Speaker 2: end things once they arrived at this spot. Now, one
Speaker 2: odd detail which doesn't seem to make any sense is
Speaker 2: that Bobby's cell phone was used to call its voicemail
Speaker 2: on October the twelfth, four days after the family first
Speaker 2: arrived at that spot, And what are the chances that
Speaker 2: Bobby would have still been alive there after all that time.
Speaker 2: But since the cell phone was locked inside the truck
Speaker 2: with Mazie, the most logical explanation might be that she
Speaker 2: accidentally stepped on a button which caused the phone to
Speaker 2: call voicemail. So this detail might not have any relevance
Speaker 2: to this case. Judging from the footprints of the scene
Speaker 2: and the GPS coordinates on Bobby's cell phone, investigators believe
Speaker 2: that the entire family walked up a nearby hill towards
Speaker 2: a large rock, which is where the final photograph of
Speaker 2: Madison was taken with the cell phone. You can look
Speaker 2: up that photo online and judge for yourself, but it's
Speaker 2: always been the subject of device of reactions and interpretations.
Speaker 2: Some people, including the Jamison's relatives and friends, believe that
Speaker 2: Madison looks frightened and uncomfortable, possibly because the photo was
Speaker 2: being taken by someone else besides your parents. But if
Speaker 2: you search any online discussions about this case, you'll find
Speaker 2: a number of commenters who believe there's nothing out of
Speaker 2: the ordinary about it. Well, obviously, the fact that this
Speaker 2: would be the last photograph of Madison before something happened
Speaker 2: to her is incredibly eerie, But I personally have never
Speaker 2: gotten the sense that it was taken while something bad
Speaker 2: was happening, and I just don't get the impression there's
Speaker 2: genuine fear on the girl's face. Yes, the manner in
Speaker 2: which your arms are crossed is odd, but it also
Speaker 2: comes across as a typical reaction from a six year
Speaker 2: old who is not in the mood to have their
Speaker 2: picture taken. I'm sure anyone with children has had moments
Speaker 2: where they just happened to snap a photo of a
Speaker 2: kid at the exact wrong second, and the end result
Speaker 2: looks incredibly awkward. I'm sure there are many family photos
Speaker 2: out there of children giving off the same type of
Speaker 2: reaction as Madison, But because those kids didn't wind up
Speaker 2: going missing, there's nothing ominous about them. I wouldn't roll
Speaker 2: out the possibility that Madison could have been uncomfortable because
Speaker 2: her parents were doing something she did not like. But
Speaker 2: I don't buy the theory that this photo was taken
Speaker 2: by a stranger. Remember, Bobby's cell phone was found inside
Speaker 2: the truck, so I'm not sure why an outside party
Speaker 2: would go to the trouble of using the phone to
Speaker 2: snap this picture before walking back down the hill and
Speaker 2: locking it in the truck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you look at the picture. To me, when
Speaker 3: I first pulled it up, I thought, awkward, six year old.
Speaker 3: I can go through my phone and pull fifty pictures
Speaker 3: where I'm behind the camera going can you please look normal?
Speaker 3: Can you please smile for the camera? Put your arms down, honey? Right,
Speaker 3: trying to make her look quote normal, And she's just
Speaker 3: a silly, awkward kid, right that does a silly face,
Speaker 3: is frustrated, has had you know, doesn't want their picture taken.
Speaker 3: Like you said, So it's hard to read into it.
Speaker 3: But if you're the family and you're saying, this is
Speaker 3: the last picture that was taken of her, look at
Speaker 3: how quote uncomfortable she looks. Is it because someone else
Speaker 3: is behind the camera. I could see that kind of
Speaker 3: almost hope that that would be a lead right, or
Speaker 3: a clue that could help bring a resolution, especially when
Speaker 3: these babies were missing, where the family's saying something's wrong
Speaker 3: in this picture, see if this is a clue. To me,
Speaker 3: it does look more like the awkward kid. I find
Speaker 3: it bizarre that her little clothes don't quite fit right.
Speaker 3: They're out on this trip to hopefully scout out property.
Speaker 3: It's possible that they simply just didn't have the resources
Speaker 3: to dress her and clothes that fit. It's possible, too, though,
Speaker 3: that that's a sign that she was being neglected, or
Speaker 3: that her health was just not the priority at that moment.
Speaker 3: They might have been so mentally distressed that they just
Speaker 3: didn't have the ability to care for her the way
Speaker 3: she needed to be cared for. And or that was
Speaker 3: her favorite darn shirt and she refused not to wear
Speaker 3: it that day, even when her parents said it didn't fit.
Speaker 3: So a million things to be happening in that photo.
Speaker 3: To me, I would default to an awkward kid, like
Speaker 3: you said, Robin. If she hadn't gone missing, nothing would
Speaker 3: have ever been thought of this picture, I don't think.
Speaker 2: But yeah, actually I figured you were going to say
Speaker 2: that that you were going to because you're a parent
Speaker 2: that you were going to tell me you have a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of your own awkward photos of your child
Speaker 2: looking similar down Madison looks. But because they were just
Speaker 2: taken at a normal time and your children did not
Speaker 2: go missing, there was nothing out of the ordinary about them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And think about all the family pictures like
Speaker 3: your friend's post where they go spend a lot of
Speaker 3: money on family pictures.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 3: Looks like Susie wasn't in the mood, right, and there's
Speaker 3: one kid that's just like pouting or staring off into
Speaker 3: space or being weird, and you're like, God, bless every
Speaker 3: everybody else looked at the camera. But all she did
Speaker 3: was keep her mouth gaping open and her arms cross
Speaker 3: the entire photo shoot. Right, So it's real hard to
Speaker 3: force a kiddo to pose the way you want them
Speaker 3: to and never come out with a picture that you go,
Speaker 3: what a weird bird? Right, that's my kid being a
Speaker 3: fruitcake right now. So I think it's very possible she
Speaker 3: was just hot and fed up and don't take my picture.
Speaker 1: The theory presented by Sheriff Beechen was that after the
Speaker 1: photo was taken, the Jamisons walked down the hill, on
Speaker 1: their own and climbed into the truck to drive away
Speaker 1: until someone else unexpectedly showed up. But investigators have never
Speaker 1: given off any indication that they found tire tracks from
Speaker 1: an outside vehicle at the scene, and while eight days
Speaker 1: passed before the Sheriff's office arrived, they were able to
Speaker 1: find the Jamison's footprints, so you'd think that additional tire
Speaker 1: tracks would have been preserved as well. There was a
Speaker 1: local resident who said they saw the Jamison's truck driving
Speaker 1: towards the area on October eighth, but never saw them leave,
Speaker 1: and they also did not see anyone else enter or
Speaker 1: leave the area as well. Of course, I'm sure the
Speaker 1: witness didn't have their eyes on the road the entire time,
Speaker 1: so it's possible someone else could have driven up there
Speaker 1: without being noticed. But it's such a remote spot that
Speaker 1: it makes you wonder how an outside party would have
Speaker 1: even known the family was there. I suppose that Jamison's
Speaker 1: could have made arrangements to meet someone or followed to
Speaker 1: that spot, as they had already gone there the previous day.
Speaker 1: The scenario about them being confronted by an outside party
Speaker 1: while they were attempting to leave made sense back in
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, since they were still missing, because
Speaker 1: for all anyone knew, the family could have been abducted. However,
Speaker 1: the family's remains were ultimately found just under three miles away,
Speaker 1: and if no one else was involved, you have to
Speaker 1: wonder how they got from point A to point B.
Speaker 1: For starters, Bobby's back and chronic pain issues, as we mentioned,
Speaker 1: made it very difficult for him to walk long distances,
Speaker 1: especially on rugged terrain, so it doesn't make sense that
Speaker 1: he would go there on his own accord, even if
Speaker 1: he was planning a murder suicide. Why create a bunch
Speaker 1: of additional pain for himself by walking nearly three miles.
Speaker 1: Another theory which has been presented is that the family
Speaker 1: wandered off and got lost before they succumbed to exposure.
Speaker 1: But why would they lock all their personal items of
Speaker 1: the truck. It was reportedly a very chilly day, so
Speaker 1: there's no reason to leave their jackets there. We know
Speaker 1: they use the GPS coordinates on Bobby's cell phone to
Speaker 1: walk up the hill towards the rock, so it makes
Speaker 1: no sense for them to come back down, put the
Speaker 1: phone in the truck, and then walk in a different
Speaker 1: direction without it. But like we said earlier, if we're
Speaker 1: talking about people with serious mental health issues who could
Speaker 1: have been planning a murder suicide, then trying to find
Speaker 1: logic in their actions might be pointless for sure.
Speaker 3: I also think, in my gut, it's not Bobby necessarily
Speaker 3: who's leaning towards this murder suicide. If that's what happened,
Speaker 3: it seems like sherry Lynn was more prone to have
Speaker 3: a lack of concern for her own well being, much
Speaker 3: less her families, and she had written that letter that
Speaker 3: she was dissatisfied with him. She was the one who
Speaker 3: was really talking about the demonic forces with her child.
Speaker 3: So I think it's possible that when Bobby said, hey,
Speaker 3: let's go look at this property, she says, perfect, let's go,
Speaker 3: and maybe not even planning initially to have this happen,
Speaker 3: could have been the one who actually prompts let's go
Speaker 3: on this hike, let's go out on this walk, let's
Speaker 3: go do this or that, and is the one who
Speaker 3: actually acts because Bobby, like we said earlier, is showing
Speaker 3: signs that he truly did want to see this piece
Speaker 3: of property. What is it like to live here?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Can you give me directions? To this piece of property.
Speaker 3: He's asking the questions that show a deeper interest, and
Speaker 3: we don't hear that from shery Lynn. We don't see
Speaker 3: her behaviors at that point. Maybe it wasn't him planning it.
Speaker 3: Maybe he's convinced by sherry Lynn to go on this
Speaker 3: hike or go on this walk, and he's hurting or complaining.
Speaker 3: She said, come on, honey, we have to go. We
Speaker 3: got to keep going, and therefore he's conned into it.
Speaker 3: So that's a possibility as well. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think there's a greater possibility that if somebody was
Speaker 1: planning this, we see more warning signs with sher Lynn.
Speaker 1: And I think if she did indeed go to this
Speaker 1: place three miles out, that is the big question mark
Speaker 1: for me. I don't know why, but she wasn't in
Speaker 1: a healthy mental state, So again, if we're trying to
Speaker 1: apply logic to what was her decision, but I just
Speaker 1: think it would have been a really arduous process to
Speaker 1: try to drag Bobby three miles and Madison as well.
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of them would have been
Speaker 1: easy to move. And then I guess I could see
Speaker 1: a scenario where she could have had her twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber and maybe ended their lives through the gun somewhere
Speaker 1: and then ended her life in another manner. But it
Speaker 1: just seems like such a long hike.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if she had her gun, she could have
Speaker 2: maybe forced Bobby to walk three miles at gunpoint, because
Speaker 2: she's obviously not going to care about how much paint
Speaker 2: he's in if she's planning on killing him, and she
Speaker 2: could probably make the hike on her own, but of
Speaker 2: course she's got to bring Madison along with her, and
Speaker 2: it just seems so pointless, even for someone with mental
Speaker 2: health issues. Why are you going to the trouble of
Speaker 2: walking a great distance when you don't even have to.
Speaker 2: Of course, the big puzzler in this case is the
Speaker 2: thirty two thousand dollars hidden under the driver's seat in
Speaker 2: the truck. If the family was murdered by someone, then
Speaker 2: I can understand them not taking this money, as it
Speaker 2: was so well concealed that the killer might not have
Speaker 2: even known it was there. But that only raises the
Speaker 2: question why did the Jamisons bring it to this location
Speaker 2: in the first place. In fact, since Bobby and Sherlyn
Speaker 2: were both unemployed and lived on disability, where did all
Speaker 2: that cash come from. It sounds like Bobby received a
Speaker 2: settlement from the accident which injured him and his mother
Speaker 2: said the amount was sixty four thousand dollars, which he
Speaker 2: split with Sherlyn. Given that thirty two thousand dollars is
Speaker 2: half that amount, the numbers do add up. And there's
Speaker 2: also the fact that the security footage showed shre Lind
Speaker 2: loading a brown briefcase into the truck before the family
Speaker 2: left the residence. Since this briefcase has never been accounted for,
Speaker 2: could it have contained Sharland's split of the settlement money.
Speaker 2: If oulplay took place and there was a lot of
Speaker 2: cash in the briefcase, then the perpetrator might have stolen
Speaker 2: it without even being aware that there was additional money
Speaker 2: under the driver's seat. If that thirty two thousand dollars
Speaker 2: was settlement money, then I can see why Bobby might
Speaker 2: have elected to keep the entire amounting cash rather than
Speaker 2: deposited in the bank. The United States is known for
Speaker 2: being very rigid when it comes to checking the finances
Speaker 2: of people who are on disability to ensure they're not
Speaker 2: making too much money and scamming the government, So perhaps
Speaker 2: Bobby did not want to leave a paper trail. But
Speaker 2: if that's the case, why did Bobby bring all this
Speaker 2: cash to Latimer County with him. I know that Bobby
Speaker 2: learned about this plot of land from the Internet, but
Speaker 2: I don't have any information about who was actually selling it,
Speaker 2: and if Bobby could have just approached them with thirty
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars in cash in order to purchase the land.
Speaker 2: This is why there has been so much speculation that
Speaker 2: the money was going to be used for something illegal,
Speaker 2: such as buying drugs, though no evidence has ever been
Speaker 2: found to support this theory. If the family was planning
Speaker 2: to orchestrate some sort of murdered suicide, it makes you
Speaker 2: wonder why they would bother bringing all that cash with them.
Speaker 2: But then again, it's possible that only one of the
Speaker 2: parents was planning something like that and the other was
Speaker 2: taken by complete surprise. In the end, the money was
Speaker 2: turned over to the closest surviving air, which was Bobby's mother, Starlet,
Speaker 2: So if he was feeling suicidal, perhaps Bobby wanted to
Speaker 2: ensure the money would be found and she would receive it.
Speaker 3: But that still doesn't explain the suitcase that would go missing,
Speaker 3: or that they never recovered. They could have also had
Speaker 3: money in it. What's interesting is that Bobby's money wasn't
Speaker 3: very clearly displayed. It was hidden under tools under his seat, right.
Speaker 3: So while yeah, a whole search of the car would
Speaker 3: have revealed it, if he was really hoping his mom
Speaker 3: was going to get it, wouldn't he have written a
Speaker 3: note and put it on the you know, on the seat,
Speaker 3: or left a box it said for mom and it
Speaker 3: would have been in there. It just seems like it
Speaker 3: was hidden. I actually had never thought about what you said, Robin,
Speaker 3: that maybe he had the cash with him so he
Speaker 3: could purchase the land out right, and maybe he could
Speaker 3: just do a cash sale with the owner of it.
Speaker 3: I do think it would be very hard to quote
Speaker 3: hide the money from the government, though, because oftentimes under
Speaker 3: taxes you're asked about any lawsuits or legal matters that
Speaker 3: have been settled in the past year, and so I
Speaker 3: believe they would have had to report that it's a
Speaker 3: court process that got them the money. So it's it
Speaker 3: would be pretty hard to hide a legal settlement. So
Speaker 3: I think having the cash on hand to make a
Speaker 3: property purchase might be a more valid explanation, but not
Speaker 3: sure they could have completely skirted by without the government
Speaker 3: having accountability for that money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, you don't have any information about what happened
Speaker 2: to the money after the settlement took place, if he
Speaker 2: ever did put it in the bank, because they've never
Speaker 2: reported anything about Bobby making any large cash withdrawals or
Speaker 2: emptying his bank account in the days or weeks prior
Speaker 2: to his disappearance, So it's still a big mystery where
Speaker 2: all that cash came from.
Speaker 1: In addition to the photograph of Madison, the other odd
Speaker 1: detail which has been the subject of a lot of
Speaker 1: debate is the security footage of Bobby and Sherilyn loading
Speaker 1: their truck with items on the morning they went missing,
Speaker 1: as they reportedly walked back and forth around twenty times
Speaker 1: while never acknowledging or speaking to each other, and they
Speaker 1: were described as being in a trance like state. I've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of online commentors state that they don't
Speaker 1: believe there's anything unusual about this video at all. Well,
Speaker 1: the problem is that general public has only seen snippets
Speaker 1: of it. If you search for it on YouTube, you'll
Speaker 1: only find very brief clips that show several seconds worth
Speaker 1: of still frames, and the quality is so poor that
Speaker 1: it's impossible to clearly see Bobby and Shrilyn's faces or
Speaker 1: determine if they're in a so called trance like state. However,
Speaker 1: it was Sheriff Beacham who used the phrase trance like
Speaker 1: on the Disappeared episode. He's seen the entire footage, so
Speaker 1: maybe he has a different interpretation, and I know one.
Speaker 1: Psychologists believe that Bobby and Sharlyn's behavior in the video
Speaker 1: match the symptoms of people who were on drugs, but
Speaker 1: given that the marriage was not in a great place
Speaker 1: and the couple had apparently been considering divorce, not speaking
Speaker 1: to each other while loading a truck might not be
Speaker 1: that unusual. However, Charylyn's friend Nikki Schenneld once mentioned during
Speaker 1: an interview that she noticed what she believed to be
Speaker 1: an additional person. In the footage, which is available publicly,
Speaker 1: you can see separate sections which show a man wearing
Speaker 1: a white shirt and a brown shirt, and even though
Speaker 1: you can't see his face clearly, the assumption seems to
Speaker 1: be that Bobby simply changed his shirt at some point
Speaker 1: when he walked back into the house, but according to Nikki,
Speaker 1: there are a few frames where you can briefly see
Speaker 1: your reflection in the truck's window, which simultaneously shows two
Speaker 1: different men in a white shirt and a brown shirt.
Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't personally seen this part of the footage,
Speaker 1: so I can't say for certain, but I know that
Speaker 1: law enforcement studied it extensively, and I've never heard them
Speaker 1: bring up the possibility of another man being with Bobby
Speaker 1: and Sherilyn when they left the house that day. You
Speaker 1: could assume that this person traveled with the family to
Speaker 1: Latimer County and did something to them, But the problem
Speaker 1: is that the truck was left there, so unless this
Speaker 1: person met up with someone else who gave them a ride,
Speaker 1: how did they manage to get out of the area
Speaker 1: Like the photo of Madison. I'm not sure the security
Speaker 1: footage has any real relevance to the case, and people
Speaker 1: might just be reading too much into it because the
Speaker 1: family later went missing. I knew they believed their house
Speaker 1: was haunted by spirits, but just because they were described
Speaker 1: as being in a trance like state does not mean
Speaker 1: they were possessed by demons or that there was anything
Speaker 1: supernatural at work here.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I think you're right, Jules when you talk about the
Speaker 3: fact that they were already having issues that there's mental
Speaker 3: health issues at play as well. It's not uncommon to
Speaker 3: think that a couple could be loading the car on
Speaker 3: a trip and be frustrated with each other, be tired,
Speaker 3: be distressed, be preoccupied, be fixated on the details of
Speaker 3: leaving on a trip. I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: reasons why they might be inn a quote trance like state,
Speaker 3: maybe not engaging with each other as much. So I
Speaker 3: think again, when you watch these videos, because you're looking
Speaker 3: at it from a lens of something went wrong, something happened,
Speaker 3: it's a lot easier to read into it and start
Speaker 3: to analyze the behavior from a kind of a more
Speaker 3: macab point of view. But if you were just watching it,
Speaker 3: you might and you didn't know that they were missing,
Speaker 3: you might be able to look at it and say, well,
Speaker 3: clearly they're distressed, or clearly something's bothering them, or you
Speaker 3: might actually say, look, they just seem like they're on
Speaker 3: a mission to get the car packed up and get
Speaker 3: the heck out of there. When you guys see these clips,
Speaker 3: I know you said you didn't see the clips of
Speaker 3: peop changing shirts, but is there a lot of support
Speaker 3: that there could have been a third person there, because
Speaker 3: that would cause a whole new dynamic to the case
Speaker 3: if you were talking about three adults traveling with Madison
Speaker 3: and not just the two.
Speaker 2: Literally, the only person I've seen bring that up is
Speaker 2: Nicky Cherylyn's friend. I've never heard shre Beecham or anyone
Speaker 2: from law enforcement bring up the possibility of a third person,
Speaker 2: so I think she's probably just trying to read into
Speaker 2: something from watching the footage, trying to figure out what happened.
Speaker 2: But even though I've not personally seen it, I'm very
Speaker 2: skeptical that there is an additional man there who climbed
Speaker 2: into the truck with them. But theoretically, if the entire
Speaker 2: family were victims of foul play from an outside party,
Speaker 2: who could have been responsible. Well, the initial stages of
Speaker 2: the investigation had a couple of potentially interesting suspects who
Speaker 2: have all but been eliminated. There's Bobby's father, Bob Dan
Speaker 2: Jamison Senior, who sounds like a real piece of work.
Speaker 2: It sounds very unlikely that he was personally involved with
Speaker 2: what happened, since he was not in the best of
Speaker 2: health at that time. I had only two months after
Speaker 2: the family went missing, but I would definitely be curious
Speaker 2: to know more about this guy's backstory. According to his obituary,
Speaker 2: Bobby was Bob's only child, but we have allegations that
Speaker 2: Bob cheated his own son out of money, tried to
Speaker 2: hit him with a car, and threatened to kill his
Speaker 2: entire family. And I think it says a lot that
Speaker 2: his wife, Starlett, decided to divorce him after four decades
Speaker 2: of marriage and was the one who suggested that Bobby
Speaker 2: put up the security cameras to protect himself. I have
Speaker 2: no idea if Bob and Bobby always had a fractured
Speaker 2: relationship or if it just wound up going bad near
Speaker 2: the end. But even though Bob cut his son out
Speaker 2: of his will, he still seemed to care enough about
Speaker 2: his granddaughter to leave everything to her, though no one
Speaker 2: expected Madison to be a missing person by the time
Speaker 2: Bob passed away. It is interesting that Bobby had been
Speaker 2: involved in no less than three lawsuits at the time
Speaker 2: before he disappeared. His lawsuit for the injuries he sustained
Speaker 2: in the accident sounds pretty reasonable, and of course Bobby
Speaker 2: suited against his father and never got the chance to
Speaker 2: be resolved. Sure love to know more details about why
Speaker 2: he filed the lawsuit against the school district after Madison
Speaker 2: was pulled out of school. After investigating their backgrounds, Sheriff
Speaker 2: Beecham once made a comment in which you referred to
Speaker 2: Bobby and Schrilyn as quote unquote scammers. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: already meant by that, but since they could no longer work,
Speaker 2: perhaps they had started a racket where they would file
Speaker 2: frivolous lawsuits as their means of generating income. If so,
Speaker 2: I guess it's possible that their actions could have angered
Speaker 2: the wrong people and led to them being murdered, but
Speaker 2: there's no evidence to support this. We also have Kenneth Bellows,
Speaker 2: the white supremacist boarder whom Cherlyn kicked out of the
Speaker 2: house a few months before the disappearances, but it sounds
Speaker 2: like he was in jail during the time period the
Speaker 2: family went missing, which is about as strong an alibi
Speaker 2: as you can get. I guess the only reason you
Speaker 2: can't completely dismiss Bellow's involvement is because of that weird
Speaker 2: anonymous phone call Nicki Shenhold received from a woman who
Speaker 2: claimed that the family was murdered by a white supremacy group.
Speaker 2: I guess it's possible this group could have decided to
Speaker 2: kill the Jamis since's revenge for Bellows being kicked out
Speaker 2: of the house, But that's a pretty weak motive unless
Speaker 2: they were following the Jamisons. How could the group know
Speaker 2: they'd be at that particular remote area at that particular
Speaker 2: time that.
Speaker 3: This family decided to leave on this day, they're going
Speaker 3: to this remote area and will be able to keep
Speaker 3: them and get them away from other people. It's interesting
Speaker 3: to me that Nicky seems to kind of be the
Speaker 3: source of a lot of information in this case. Is
Speaker 3: it just that she's the best friend of sherry Lynn
Speaker 3: or that she happened to know their dynamics so well
Speaker 3: that she's such a major player in this case.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like she is Cherlyn's best friend, but
Speaker 2: I don't know how often she was around the family,
Speaker 2: like if she personally witnessed them, like display any of
Speaker 2: this erratic behavior, or if she had any concerns about
Speaker 2: Madison safety. But I do know that it's Nicki who
Speaker 2: keeps puishing forward the theories about them being the victims
Speaker 2: of foul play, because she talked about this tip with
Speaker 2: the White Supremacy group. She brought up this angle involving
Speaker 2: the additional man in the truck, so I get the
Speaker 2: impression that she legitimately DIDNY do not believe that Bobby
Speaker 2: or chery Lynn would have been capable of harming their
Speaker 2: own daughter before killing themselves, which.
Speaker 3: Is really interesting because supposedly she would be one of
Speaker 3: the ones that knows them the best because she's one
Speaker 3: of her best friends. It is kind of interesting that
Speaker 3: if it was the White Supremacy group that they would go, oh,
Speaker 3: we also know who her best friend is, Nikki, and
Speaker 3: we're gonna call her, not mom, not someone that you
Speaker 3: can look in the newspaper and tie them directly to
Speaker 3: this family They call the best friend to give them
Speaker 3: this clue about the ring. But I don't know. To me,
Speaker 3: it seems like the murder suicide is so much more
Speaker 3: likely than someone having that perfectly timed, opportunistic moment to
Speaker 3: go after this family that all the leads. Yes, there's
Speaker 3: several people, Like we talked about the White Supremacy group,
Speaker 3: the issues with his dad and family kind of falling apart,
Speaker 3: the idea that witchcraft and devil worshiping, those kinds of
Speaker 3: things were discussed, or like at least turning to the
Speaker 3: Satanic Bible for help with demon But all of that
Speaker 3: would require, like you said, someone to watch this family
Speaker 3: know that they were setting off to look at this
Speaker 3: property and finding them at just the right time where
Speaker 3: they've gotten out, taken a picture, returned to their truck,
Speaker 3: and then they're able to isolate them and kill them.
Speaker 3: It's very elaborate and very calculated, almost to a point
Speaker 3: of it just doesn't seem realistic.
Speaker 2: And we talked about this in our last episode. But
Speaker 2: I know that Nikki claimed that the woman who made
Speaker 2: the anomalous phone call accurately described it insignia on Bobby's ring,
Speaker 2: which not many people knew, which seemed to suggest that
Speaker 2: she might have had knowledge of what happened. But again
Speaker 2: that also does not solve the problem is how would
Speaker 2: this white supremacy group have known that the Jamisons would
Speaker 2: be in this area at that particular time.
Speaker 1: We also have the allegations from Sherilyn's mother that the
Speaker 1: family was put on a hit list from some sort
Speaker 1: of religious cult, but she's never provided any specific details
Speaker 1: and I have no idea why she believed this. There
Speaker 1: are technically no strong suspects or persons of interest in
Speaker 1: this case, but once again, we really have no idea
Speaker 1: if there was anyone else involved to begin with. It's
Speaker 1: interesting to compare this case to the mcday family disappearance,
Speaker 1: which we discussed in our last episode. At the outset,
Speaker 1: there was some evidence to suggest that the mix Days
Speaker 1: could have ran away and disappeared voluntarily, but unlike the Jamisons,
Speaker 1: the family did not have a history of erratic behavior,
Speaker 1: and there was nothing particularly unusual going on in their
Speaker 1: lives at the time they went missing. However, because the
Speaker 1: circumstances of the disappearance were so baffling, there was one
Speaker 1: radio host who published a book about the case, which
Speaker 1: painted a less than flattering portrayal of the mother, Summer
Speaker 1: mixed Day, and suggested that she may have murdered her
Speaker 1: husband and fled the country with her two boys. Well,
Speaker 1: of course, once the entire family's remains were found in
Speaker 1: a shallow grave and it was clear that they were
Speaker 1: all murdered by a third party, the book was pulled
Speaker 1: from circulation, and the author even went so far as
Speaker 1: to offer a refund to everyone who purchased it. So, obviously,
Speaker 1: I would be very hesitant of accusing Bobby or Cherylyn
Speaker 1: Jamison of killing their child or each other without definitive evidence.
Speaker 1: You can understand why the family's loved ones would be
Speaker 1: pushing forward theories about religious cults and white supremacy groups
Speaker 1: and whatnot, because I'm sure they would prefer not to
Speaker 1: believe that Bobby or Shriylyn or both of them were
Speaker 1: capable of orchestrating a murder suicide, not to mention that
Speaker 1: if this is what actually happened, there's technically no way
Speaker 1: to prove it, and it means this mystery will remain
Speaker 1: unsolved forever without a resolution. If the family was murdered
Speaker 1: by a third party, then at least their killers out
Speaker 1: there somewhere who can be brought to justice and we
Speaker 1: could potentially learn the full truth about what happened. That's
Speaker 1: exactly what happened in the Mix staycase after the perpetrator
Speaker 1: was arrested and convicted. But that sort of thing might
Speaker 1: just not be possible here.
Speaker 3: Well, just think about it. I mean, I know I
Speaker 3: brought up Andrea Yates on the last episode, but when
Speaker 3: you think about her, there were sign and she was
Speaker 3: capable of hurting her children and hurting herself, and still
Speaker 3: nobody paid attention to that or helped her or took
Speaker 3: heed of those morning signs, so they still didn't believe
Speaker 3: she was capable of hurting her kids until she did it. Right.
Speaker 3: And so when you look at this and you talk
Speaker 3: about a family, think about when someone completes suicide, the
Speaker 3: gut instinct is, no, they couldn't have. They knew how
Speaker 3: loved they were, they knew how bad we needed them.
Speaker 3: They couldn't have done this. Look at other explanations, right,
Speaker 3: because your heart doesn't want to believe that that's possible.
Speaker 3: And so then exaggerate that or expand that onto three
Speaker 3: individuals being deceased at the hands of one of those individuals,
Speaker 3: possibly or both the parents, maybe killing the baby. But
Speaker 3: you start to think about that like that just it
Speaker 3: can't be humanly possible. This is their own offspring, this
Speaker 3: is their own family. These are people that they loved.
Speaker 3: They might hurt themselves, but they would never hurt the
Speaker 3: other people. So I think the default grief response is,
Speaker 3: please let it be anything but that, because it seems
Speaker 3: so impossible, so inhumane, so out of character for anyone
Speaker 3: to think about a family member doing that to somebody else. So,
Speaker 3: while I understand there is a possibility for a third party.
Speaker 3: I also understand where just the natural grief and trauma
Speaker 3: aspect of what this case entails three people deceased, including
Speaker 3: a baby, I could see where no one would want
Speaker 3: to broach the subject of could it have been Bobby
Speaker 3: or sherry Lynn, because it just doesn't seem like anyone
Speaker 3: could do that to their own family. Yet historically we
Speaker 3: know that actually family annihilations are not that uncommon.
Speaker 2: During online discussions of this case, I have seen the
Speaker 2: phrase foller adeux thrown around, which is the French translation
Speaker 2: for folly of two. It's also known as shared psychosis
Speaker 2: and shared delusional disorder, which is what happens with symptoms
Speaker 2: of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another.
Speaker 2: If the Jamisons were suffering from this, this might explain
Speaker 2: why Bobby and Sherilyn both expressed their belief that their
Speaker 2: home was haunted by spirits. They also claimed that Madison
Speaker 2: had been speaking to the ghost of a girl named Emily,
Speaker 2: but it could have been something as harmless as a
Speaker 2: six year old girl speaking with an imaginary friend, and
Speaker 2: her parents thinking it was something supernatural. I know that
Speaker 2: Jamison's friends and relatives believe that they believed that they
Speaker 2: were making a move to a remote area of Latimer
Speaker 2: County in order to repair their marriage and get a
Speaker 2: fresh start. But honestly, it would not surprise me at
Speaker 2: all if this entire decision was driven by the fact
Speaker 2: that they believed their home was haunted and felt they
Speaker 2: needed to get out of there. However, even though there
Speaker 2: are a number of holes in the murdered by a
Speaker 2: third party theory, there are still a number of things
Speaker 2: about the murder suicide scenario which don't make much sense.
Speaker 2: If this is what happened, how would these events have
Speaker 2: played out? After walking up a hill and taking a
Speaker 2: photo of Madison next to a rock, what would compel
Speaker 2: Bobby and sherilynd to walk back to their truck to
Speaker 2: lock their dog, cell phone, and personal items inside. Why
Speaker 2: would they then decide to take Madison and walk three
Speaker 2: miles to a remote spot before they killed her and
Speaker 2: took their own lives. If they used a gun, what
Speaker 2: happened to it and what became of the brown briefcase
Speaker 2: Sherilyn loaded into the truck. I could see animals making
Speaker 2: a small gun disappear, but could they really do the
Speaker 2: same to an entire briefcase? None of the theories in
Speaker 2: this case make one hundred percent complete sense, but at
Speaker 2: the same time, you can't completely eliminate all of them either. Myself,
Speaker 2: I think you can count me as being completely on
Speaker 2: the fence with this one, as there are just too
Speaker 2: many discrepancies in both the murder and suicide scenarios to
Speaker 2: lean conclusively in either direction, regardless of which side you leaned.
Speaker 2: The biggest tragedy in this story is the fact that
Speaker 2: an innocent six year old girl lost her life, even
Speaker 2: though there's no indication that Madison was ever abused or mistreated.
Speaker 2: Living in that household while our parents were going through
Speaker 2: all these different ordeals could not have been easy for
Speaker 2: This is why everyone wonders what exactly was going through
Speaker 2: Madison's mind when that cryptic final photograph was taken of her.
Speaker 2: It would be horrible enough if she was murdered by
Speaker 2: an unknown perpetrator a short time after that photo was taken,
Speaker 2: But if she lost her life at the hands of
Speaker 2: one or both of her parents while alone in those woods,
Speaker 2: then that's just too frightening and heartbreaking to contemplate. There
Speaker 2: haven't been any serious developments in the investigation since the
Speaker 2: family's remains were discovered eleven years ago, but if no
Speaker 2: one else was involved, then there really isn't much that
Speaker 2: can be done. However, if there is someone out there
Speaker 2: who has gotten away with the murders of three people,
Speaker 2: that they deserve to be brought to justice. If you
Speaker 2: happen to have any information on the death of the
Speaker 2: Jamison family, please contact the Latimer County Sheriff's Office at
Speaker 2: nine one eight four sixty five two one sixty one.
Speaker 2: That's nine one eight four sixty five two one sixty one,
Speaker 2: Jules Ashley. Any final thoughts in this case?
Speaker 3: You know, the tragic thing in this case is, like
Speaker 3: you said, Robin, there's a six year old little girl
Speaker 3: and her parents who were deceased. If it was the
Speaker 3: event of a murder suicide, and you think about the
Speaker 3: tragic mental health state that had to be at play
Speaker 3: here for that to occur. For a parent or parents
Speaker 3: to think they needed to arm their daughter and themselves
Speaker 3: to get out of whatever situation they were facing, that
Speaker 3: is a major tragedy in and of itself, right, Maybe
Speaker 3: the lack of care that was given to the parents,
Speaker 3: maybe a lack of resources and support that they needed
Speaker 3: when they were showing signs, right, everyone says, looking back,
Speaker 3: you saw these signs, well, people should have intervened or
Speaker 3: there should have been help provided. And if that's the
Speaker 3: explanation of what actually happened to this little girl and
Speaker 3: her parents, it's tragic in and of itself that the
Speaker 3: parents were at that point where they were in a
Speaker 3: place to harm their child. It's just pitiful. And then
Speaker 3: you have this other side that were there these other
Speaker 3: entities at play here? Was there someone from the witchcraft
Speaker 3: or satanic community when the parents were reaching out to
Speaker 3: kind of rid their house and demons? Were there people
Speaker 3: who were part of the white supremacist group that were
Speaker 3: after this family for their Native American history and indigenous culture?
Speaker 3: Is it somebody who was upset with Bobby because of
Speaker 3: the lawsuits he was filing. Was it someone who sherry
Speaker 3: Lynn had frustrated or made mad while she was in
Speaker 3: one of her depressive or bipolar states. It's just so
Speaker 3: many leads, Like the sheriff said, you usually would kill
Speaker 3: for these kinds of leads, right, give me all the leads.
Speaker 3: But he said, when you look at this one, it's
Speaker 3: almost like we have so many with no depth to
Speaker 3: any of them. We're not getting anywhere with this case.
Speaker 3: It's so sad. You have a little six year old
Speaker 3: girl whose life stopped in that moment when she had
Speaker 3: her whole world in front of her, and two parents
Speaker 3: that are also deceased that needed help and support, And
Speaker 3: so my prayer is that there would be some way
Speaker 3: to get answers or something could be discovered. But this
Speaker 3: is one of those cases that almost seems as helpless
Speaker 3: as they felt at the time, right of how would
Speaker 3: you get any leads at this point unless there is
Speaker 3: a perpetrator and unless they speak up or tell somebody something.
Speaker 3: So overall, my heart's just broken for this little girl
Speaker 3: and for her parents, no matter what the situation was.
Speaker 1: This is just one of those cases where the muddier
Speaker 1: the water, the harder it is to see clearly what
Speaker 1: actually happened. And each one of those things that actually
Speaker 1: just illustrated is something that muddies the water further. So
Speaker 1: in the end, we're left with all of these possibilities,
Speaker 1: but we don't really have any evidence to support any
Speaker 1: of them. I don't conclusively know what happened. I would say, statistically,
Speaker 1: given all of the information that we have, if I
Speaker 1: was to venture a guess I would say the most
Speaker 1: likely but scenario would be a murder suicide, and that
Speaker 1: the likely perpetrator, you know, it's Ashley suggested earlier would
Speaker 1: be likely share all in, But we don't know that.
Speaker 1: We don't have evidence to support that either. All we
Speaker 1: know is that there was a previous suicide attempt and
Speaker 1: that clearly Sharlyn was having a mental health episode. She
Speaker 1: was in a bad place with her bipolar disorder. We
Speaker 1: don't know if they were taking medication, but there's still
Speaker 1: so many unanswered questions that don't line up with that
Speaker 1: as well. There's just nothing that can fully explain what
Speaker 1: happened here, and it's so infuriating. I wish that we
Speaker 1: had more information so that there would be some kind
Speaker 1: of resolution for their families.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked about how this was the very first
Speaker 2: disappeared episode I watched about fourteen years ago, and I
Speaker 2: also watched it very closely to the mix Stay family
Speaker 2: disappearance and became pretty obsessed with both of them and
Speaker 2: cannot figure out what happened either of these families. But
Speaker 2: like we mentioned, the McStay family disappearance had a conclusive
Speaker 2: resolution where they found their bodies. They knew who did it,
Speaker 2: who killed them, and what exactly happened. And then on
Speaker 2: the exact same week they find the remains of the
Speaker 2: Jamison family. But it only opens up more unanswered questions.
Speaker 2: We're no closer to solving it today than we were
Speaker 2: back in two thousand and nine or twenty thirteen when
Speaker 2: the remains were found. When you look at the big situation,
Speaker 2: it would make more sense if this was a murder suicide,
Speaker 2: particularly if Cherylyn did it. That maybe Bobby was genuine
Speaker 2: about going out there to purchase a plot of land,
Speaker 2: but for whatever reason, Cherylyn decided this would be a
Speaker 2: good place to end it all. It does make more
Speaker 2: sense than a foul play scenario because, like we talked about,
Speaker 2: who would know that the Jamison's were out there? What
Speaker 2: motive would someone have? Like why would someone take them
Speaker 2: into the woods and kill them and then leave their
Speaker 2: truck behind and their dog and thirty two thousand dollars
Speaker 2: under the seat. But like we said, the suicide scenario
Speaker 2: is not one hundred percent concrete either, because there are
Speaker 2: a lot of unanswered questions. Why did they travel three
Speaker 2: miles from the truck, would Bobby have been physically capable
Speaker 2: of making it that far. And if they did, if
Speaker 2: it was a murder suicide, how what was the cause
Speaker 2: of death? Did they use a gun? Did the gun
Speaker 2: just disappear? What happened to Sharean's briefcase, There are just
Speaker 2: too many holes to say out without any certainty that
Speaker 2: this was the result of a murdered suicide. But no
Speaker 2: matter which way you look at it, you have to
Speaker 2: feel bad for the entire family, particularly for Madison, who
Speaker 2: sounds like she had a lot of difficulties being raised
Speaker 2: in this household during her very short life. And the
Speaker 2: most heartbreaking thing about it is that if the family
Speaker 2: did this to themselves, we may never know for certain.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm hoping that there is some additional
Speaker 2: information out there, a piece of the puzzle we're missing,
Speaker 2: to finally get some light shed on what actually happened
Speaker 2: here and possibly a resolution.
Speaker 4: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
Speaker 4: about the Trailment Cold Patreon?
Speaker 2: Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
Speaker 2: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
Speaker 2: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
Speaker 2: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
Speaker 2: with us. On Patreon if you join our five dollars
Speaker 2: tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in
Speaker 2: which I talk about cases which are not featured on
Speaker 2: the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,
Speaker 2: and if you join our highest tier tier three, the
Speaker 2: ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is
Speaker 2: a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries,
Speaker 2: where you can download an audio file and then boot
Speaker 2: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
Speaker 2: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
Speaker 2: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
Speaker 2: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
Speaker 2: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
Speaker 2: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
Speaker 2: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
Speaker 2: ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
Speaker 2: Tier three.
Speaker 4: So I want to let you know a little bit
Speaker 4: about the Jewels and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad
Speaker 4: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
Speaker 4: Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,
Speaker 4: so they're not very mini, but they're just too short
Speaker 4: to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing
Speaker 4: the so we hope you'll check out those patreons will
Speaker 4: link them in the show notes.
Speaker 2: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
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Speaker 2: You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.
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Speaker 2: until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold
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Speaker 1: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy