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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Path Wind, Chile for part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our series about the unexplained deaths of the Jamison family. Robin,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to catch everyone up on when we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about in our previous episode?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I previously mentioned that this was featured on the

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<v Speaker 2>very first episode of Disappeared that I ever watched. It

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<v Speaker 2>involves a family from Oklahoma, forty four year old Bobby Jamison,

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<v Speaker 2>his forty year old wife Sherilyn, and their six year

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<v Speaker 2>old daughter, Madison. This is in October of two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and nine. At the time, neither of the two parents

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<v Speaker 2>were working. They were on disability because of injuries and

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<v Speaker 2>various mental health issues. They had pulled Madison out of

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<v Speaker 2>school to homeschooler, and were known for being kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a private and reclusive family, and it was pretty concerning

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<v Speaker 2>because they were displaying like a lot of paranoid and

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<v Speaker 2>erratic behavior. They thought their home was haunted. They thought

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<v Speaker 2>that Madison was talking to the ghost of a deceased girl.

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<v Speaker 2>And then one day they decided to go out into

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<v Speaker 2>a remote area of Latimer County in order to supposedly

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<v Speaker 2>purchase a plot of land. But they soon vanished without

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<v Speaker 2>a trace and their abandoned pickup truck would be found.

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<v Speaker 2>It had the family dog inside, who was near death,

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<v Speaker 2>though thankfully she was saved, and the strangest detail was

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<v Speaker 2>thirty two dollars in cash hidden under the driver's seat,

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<v Speaker 2>which was presumably going to be used to purchase the land,

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<v Speaker 2>but no one could figure out why it was left there,

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<v Speaker 2>and pretty much four years passed by without anyone having

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<v Speaker 2>any idea what happened to the Jamisons. There were a

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<v Speaker 2>number of different theories involving them possibly being murdered by

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<v Speaker 2>a white supremacy group or being murdered by obviously strange father,

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<v Speaker 2>but there was really no evidence pointing in to any direction.

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<v Speaker 2>And then, finally, four years after they were a last scene,

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<v Speaker 2>in November of twenty thirteen, the remains of all three

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<v Speaker 2>victims were found in the woods, about three miles away

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<v Speaker 2>from the spot where their truck had been abandoned. They

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<v Speaker 2>found the skulls and their bones scattered around there, but

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<v Speaker 2>'ren able to determine the exact cause of death of

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<v Speaker 2>any of the three victims. There's been debate about whether

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<v Speaker 2>they were the victim of a homicide by an outside

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<v Speaker 2>party or because of the parent's erratic behavior. Possibly one

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<v Speaker 2>or both of them committed a murder suicide where they

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<v Speaker 2>killed Madison and then ended their own lives. But of

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<v Speaker 2>course no gun or murder weapon was found, and no

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<v Speaker 2>one knows how they actually died. And sadly, it's now

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<v Speaker 2>been almost eleven years since the remains were discovered, and

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<v Speaker 2>the investigation has pretty much hit a standstill. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>why we're talking about it on today's episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Less than three miles from the remote dirt road where

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<v Speaker 1>their truck was parked shows that their deaths definitely occurred

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<v Speaker 1>sometime after they arrived in the area. Now, even though

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<v Speaker 1>a very extensive search effort was performed and failed to

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<v Speaker 1>turn up anything. We've reiterated so many times on this

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<v Speaker 1>podcast that even the best search operations will fail to

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<v Speaker 1>turn off human remains, especially when you're dealing with a

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<v Speaker 1>rugged wilderness area. There are so many missing persons cases

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<v Speaker 1>like this where the victims remains or partial remains are

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<v Speaker 1>discovered in the same area they disappeared from years after

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<v Speaker 1>the fact, meaning that the original search effort missed them.

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<v Speaker 1>I do think that's likely what happened here in the

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<v Speaker 1>Jamison case, though some interesting comments were provided by Tim Graham,

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<v Speaker 1>the deer hunter who found their skulls. Even though the

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<v Speaker 1>skulls had sunk into the soil a little bit, Graham

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<v Speaker 1>said they were visible and lying next to an easily

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<v Speaker 1>accessible trail, so we openly expressed his surprise that the

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<v Speaker 1>searchers never found them back in two thousand and nine. However,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of miserable weather and heavy rains

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<v Speaker 1>during that time period, some of which took before the

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<v Speaker 1>truck was even discovered, and the original search team believed

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<v Speaker 1>that the remains might have been obscured by falling leaves. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>it does seem far fetched that someone would abduct all

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<v Speaker 1>three family members and murder them at another location, and

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<v Speaker 1>then return back to the area to dispose of their bodies.

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<v Speaker 1>But another interesting detail that Graham noticed was a hole

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<v Speaker 1>in the top of Bobby's skull, which he believed may

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<v Speaker 1>have been a bullet wound. Will investigators said that the

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<v Speaker 1>hole might have been caused by a coyote who not

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<v Speaker 1>on the skull's edges. Graham replied, quote, ain't no coyote

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<v Speaker 1>did that? Well, since no gun could be found at

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<v Speaker 1>the scene and there were no traces of any bullets

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<v Speaker 1>or slugs. It's never been conclusively proven that any of

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<v Speaker 1>the victims were shot. One of the reasons the murder

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<v Speaker 1>suicide theory has gotten some traction is because a twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two caliber gun Sherylyn owned, like we mentioned earlier in

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<v Speaker 1>our last episode, was never accounted for. But we also

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<v Speaker 1>can't be one hundred percent certain she even had it

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<v Speaker 1>on her when she traveled to Latimer County. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how common it is for animals to pick up

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<v Speaker 1>guns off the ground and carry them away, but I

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<v Speaker 1>guess that provides a potential explanation for how a gun

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<v Speaker 1>could have disappeared from the scene if it was used.

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<v Speaker 1>The area was also apparently prone to flash floods, so

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<v Speaker 1>that's been pushed forward as a potential explanation for why

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<v Speaker 1>the gun wasn't there. Like given that the three victims'

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<v Speaker 1>remains were all found together in the same spot, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not sure how much flooding took place.

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<v Speaker 3>When you look at this and you ask, Okay, is

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<v Speaker 3>there are a gun involved, Like we talked about on

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<v Speaker 3>episode one, I think that it's hard to make that

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<v Speaker 3>determination given the conditions the bodies were found in. Unless

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<v Speaker 3>there was a clear indication of the bullet wound, which

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<v Speaker 3>I think would have also been confirmed when their bodies

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<v Speaker 3>were recovered and the remains were sent for examination. It's

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<v Speaker 3>difficult to say this looks like a gunshot wound because

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<v Speaker 3>they were scattered. There was injuries to the bones because

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<v Speaker 3>of the weather and because of the elements, and because

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<v Speaker 3>of the animals that were taking them and scattering them.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's really difficult. But it's scary when you think

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<v Speaker 3>about the twenty two missing and you remember that letter

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<v Speaker 3>that was found. It was in the truck, correct, that

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<v Speaker 3>eleven page letter. It was yeah, okay, So to me,

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<v Speaker 3>she leaves with that briefcase. It's possible she had her

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<v Speaker 3>gun with her at the time because they couldn't find it,

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<v Speaker 3>and there's this eleven page like hate letter that she's

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<v Speaker 3>written to her husband. Doesn't seem like something I would

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<v Speaker 3>take along on a family trip when we're going to

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<v Speaker 3>have fun or go on vacation. She's clearly not happy

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<v Speaker 3>with him at the time, and I feel like that

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<v Speaker 3>would be that motivation for either her or Bobby to

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<v Speaker 3>actually act out in reaction to that letter, like why

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<v Speaker 3>would you bring it with you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean, we're going to talk about the letter

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more later on. I mean, it's possible that

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<v Speaker 2>she could have written that at a previous time, and

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<v Speaker 2>possibly Bobby and Cherylyn had made out by then and

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<v Speaker 2>the letter just happened to be in the truck. We

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<v Speaker 2>did another case like that in the early days of

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<v Speaker 2>The Path Went Chile, with the murders of Mike Reamer

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<v Speaker 2>and Diana Robertson, where their little girl was found abandoned

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<v Speaker 2>at an apartment store while their bodies were found in

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<v Speaker 2>the woods, and there was some ambiguity about whether Mike

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<v Speaker 2>might have murdered Diana because he was known for being abusive,

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<v Speaker 2>and there was like a note found in the truck

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<v Speaker 2>that said I'm sorry Diana, But we don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>he wrote that on the day of the crime, or

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<v Speaker 2>if it was just written on a previous occasion and

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<v Speaker 2>it just happened to be in the truck. So it

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<v Speaker 2>could be the same thing with Sharlyn.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm going to venture a guest and say that

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<v Speaker 1>their truck was likely pretty messy, so there could be

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<v Speaker 1>any number of dates that Sharlyn might have wrote that letter,

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<v Speaker 1>especially since her family members had said and we mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>in our previous episode that this was typical of Shrilyn

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<v Speaker 1>when she was going through her bipolar depression or bipolar mania,

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<v Speaker 1>that she would have very extreme emotion and she would

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<v Speaker 1>express them in letters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it almost felt like this could have been

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<v Speaker 2>like a starting over for the couple, that even though

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<v Speaker 2>they had some problems, they were going to go purchase

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<v Speaker 2>this parcel of land and maybe just get a fresh

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<v Speaker 2>start when they moved to this new location. So maybe

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<v Speaker 2>whatever she written that wrote on that letter, maybe days

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<v Speaker 2>or weeks earlier, it had all calmed down by that point. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>in any unsolved case involving a deceased family, no one

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<v Speaker 2>wants to flat out accuse parents of killing their own

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<v Speaker 2>child before taking their own lives unless there's definitive proof

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<v Speaker 2>of that. But we also cannot ignore the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>there were a number of major warning signs with Bobby

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<v Speaker 2>and Sharlin. Both of them were on disability and could

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<v Speaker 2>not work as Bobby suffered from severe chronic back pain,

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<v Speaker 2>while Cherylyn struggled with bipolar disorder and depression and made

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<v Speaker 2>a failed suicide attempt only one month before she went missing.

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<v Speaker 2>The couple seemed to believe their house was haunted by spirits,

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<v Speaker 2>and Charlyn wrote cryptic graffiti on a storage container outside

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<v Speaker 2>their residence in order to give off the impression that

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<v Speaker 2>she was a witch and scare her neighbors. But according

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<v Speaker 2>to people who knew her, Sheldon may have just been

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<v Speaker 2>playing things up because she did not like her neighbors

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<v Speaker 2>and figured that the best way to ensure they left

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<v Speaker 2>her alone was to make them think she was crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, the biggest red flag was, like we said,

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<v Speaker 2>the angry eleven page letter, which was found in the

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<v Speaker 2>Jamison's pickup truck, where Sheerlyn expressed a lot of anger

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<v Speaker 2>towards Bobby and seemed intent on ending the marriage. Given

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<v Speaker 2>how they seemed to believe that Madison was communicating with

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<v Speaker 2>malevolent spirits, it's possible that either or both of them

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<v Speaker 2>could have suffered a complete mental breakdown and convinced themselves

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<v Speaker 2>that ending Madison's life was the best thing to do

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<v Speaker 2>before they killed themselves. While there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>things about the Jameson's actions which don't make any sense,

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<v Speaker 2>all rules pretty much go out the window when you're

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with victims who were suffering from potentially serious mental

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<v Speaker 2>health issues and could also be under the influence of drugs.

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<v Speaker 2>While no gun was found at the scene. There were

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of empty pill bottles inside the truck, so

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<v Speaker 2>if a suicide took place, it could have been the

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<v Speaker 2>result of some sort of overdose, which would have been

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<v Speaker 2>impossible to determine after they've been skeleton remains for four

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<v Speaker 2>years now. On the Disappeared episode, the family's friends and

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<v Speaker 2>her relatives acknowledge that even though Bobby and Shrilyn had

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<v Speaker 2>gone through a rough patch, their decision to relocate and

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<v Speaker 2>buy a plot of land in the mountains was their

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<v Speaker 2>attempt to make a fresh start. While Sharerlyn's later gave

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<v Speaker 2>off the impression that she felt a lot of hatred

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<v Speaker 2>towards Bobby, we technically don't know when exactly it was written.

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<v Speaker 2>For all we know, it could have been written weeks

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<v Speaker 2>earlier and left inside the truck. But things that actually

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<v Speaker 2>improved for them since then.

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<v Speaker 3>So one of the things that I was thinking is

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<v Speaker 3>that with Madison, if they truly believe she's dealing with

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<v Speaker 3>the demonic entity and she's talking to this demon and

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<v Speaker 3>the demons have possessed their home, and they're asking their

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<v Speaker 3>pastor things like is there a bullet we can get

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<v Speaker 3>to eliminate these spirits? In our house, Like, how do

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<v Speaker 3>we get rid of the evil that's here? It almost

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<v Speaker 3>give me flashes of like Andrea Yates who thought that

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<v Speaker 3>she had to kill her kids one to prevent Satan

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<v Speaker 3>coming back, and that was her way to like save

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<v Speaker 3>her babies, was to eliminate their life, right because she

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<v Speaker 3>was so scared of the evil coming in their life.

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<v Speaker 3>So when you guys described that to me earlier in

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<v Speaker 3>the episode before talking about how they were literally going

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<v Speaker 3>to their pastor in desperation to get this evil out

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<v Speaker 3>of their home, and we're even turning to Satanic Bibles

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<v Speaker 3>and witchcraft to see if they could free themselves from

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<v Speaker 3>from that darkness. They're claiming their baby was engaged with

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<v Speaker 3>this demonic force. It was dark and you know, malicious.

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<v Speaker 3>So could they have said, we have to get rid

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<v Speaker 3>of her, and if we do that, I want to

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<v Speaker 3>be with her, and they could have taken their pills

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<v Speaker 3>to overdose. I think that's very possible strangulation or even

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<v Speaker 3>overdosing her. But strangulation would be a way that you

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<v Speaker 3>wouldn't see any markings on the bones that were clear

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<v Speaker 3>weapon wounds. It would be something that would obviously disappear

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<v Speaker 3>or dissipate after you just had the bones there, right,

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<v Speaker 3>unless they happen to find the broken hyoid bone or

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<v Speaker 3>something like that, But you would think that that is

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<v Speaker 3>one possibility is saying I'm going to spare my child's

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<v Speaker 3>life to save her and then I don't want to

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<v Speaker 3>deal with life without her.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing we can to ignore, too, is the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that the greatest predictor of homicidality is suicidality. So the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that Sherilyn had a suicide attempt one month prior

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<v Speaker 1>to all of these deaths is something that statistically would

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<v Speaker 1>likely make her the most likely perpetrator if it were

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<v Speaker 1>to be between her and Bobby. Would that be correct

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<v Speaker 1>our in house criminologist doctor Ashey Wellman.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely. We have this idea that they were both

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<v Speaker 3>obsessed with death. They clearly didn't fear death, and Sherilyn

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<v Speaker 3>had already shown that she was at a point where

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<v Speaker 3>she didn't care about living anymore. It was more important

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<v Speaker 3>to her to take her own life and get out

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<v Speaker 3>of whatever situation was haunting her than to fight through it.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I agree, once that boundary gets cross and

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<v Speaker 3>life is no longer valuable to you, or it feels

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<v Speaker 3>safer to not be here. I think it opens up

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<v Speaker 3>a whole realm of possibilities of what other options you

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<v Speaker 3>have to eliminate yourself and others.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when I first heard the detail about the

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<v Speaker 2>empty pill bottles, like that was my number one theory,

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<v Speaker 2>that they went into the woods and the overdose, like

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<v Speaker 2>they force fed Madison some pills before they took them themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>But then I'm thinking, why are they leaving the empty

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<v Speaker 2>pill bottles in the truck when they're found three miles away,

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<v Speaker 2>Like what they empty the bottles and then just carry

255
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<v Speaker 2>the pills with them Like that doesn't make a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of logical sense. So it's very possible that it could

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<v Speaker 2>just be that they ran out of medication at an

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<v Speaker 2>earlier time and left the pill bottles there and they

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<v Speaker 2>have nothing to do with the case.

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<v Speaker 1>However, there has been speculation the Jamison's trip to look

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<v Speaker 1>at Land was just a cover story for something more nefarious,

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<v Speaker 1>such as drug dealing. Well, no direct evidence has ever

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<v Speaker 1>been found to prove that Bobby and Sherland were dealing

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<v Speaker 1>or using drugs. I'm not say prize that some people

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<v Speaker 1>have attempted to link their odd behavior to a methamphetamine addiction,

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<v Speaker 1>since Oklahoma has always been known for having a major

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<v Speaker 1>meth problem. The discovery of the thirty two thousand dollars

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00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.600
<v Speaker 1>under the truck driver's seat has also fueled speculation about

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<v Speaker 1>drug dealing, since that seems like a lot of cash

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<v Speaker 1>for two unemployed parents on disability to be carrying around.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we start digging into all these theories, let's

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<v Speaker 1>look at the circumstances of how the Jamison's wound up

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00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.399
<v Speaker 1>in a remote mountainous area of Latimer County. To begin with,

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00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.360
<v Speaker 1>we do know that they already drove to the spot

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00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.399
<v Speaker 1>the day before they went missing, as a local resident

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00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.080
<v Speaker 1>confirmed having interacted with them, and since Bobby asked a

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00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.320
<v Speaker 1>number of questions about what it was like to live

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00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.360
<v Speaker 1>in the area, this does give off the impression that

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00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:51.519
<v Speaker 1>he was serious about buying land there. Interestingly enough, if

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<v Speaker 1>you search online, you'll find a blog titled keep the

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<v Speaker 1>Search Alive containing an old post from January twenty twelve,

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<v Speaker 1>written by an online s sleuth who decided to interview

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<v Speaker 1>some people connected to the case during the time period

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00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.200
<v Speaker 1>that Jamisons were still missing. This person claimed that they

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to the resident who encountered the Jamisons and learned

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<v Speaker 1>that she showed various properties on Panola Mountain for a

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00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.759
<v Speaker 1>real estate company. Apparently, the woman offered to show Bobby

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00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:21.759
<v Speaker 1>the property he was interested in buying, but he declined

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00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:24.399
<v Speaker 1>her offer and asked for the GPS coordinates for the

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00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.200
<v Speaker 1>spot instead. I mean, it's possible that Bobby simply wanted

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00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.480
<v Speaker 1>to look at the property on his own, but you

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00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:32.519
<v Speaker 1>could also infer that he did not want the real

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00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.200
<v Speaker 1>estate lady there because he had something else planned. What

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00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.840
<v Speaker 1>the biggest issue I have with his theory about the

295
00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Jamisons traveling there to participate in a drug deal or

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00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.799
<v Speaker 1>some sort of illegal transaction is why would they bring

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00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.000
<v Speaker 1>their six year old daughter along with them? If Bobby

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00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:52.759
<v Speaker 1>was involved in something potentially dangerous, might not have Chrylyn

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00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:55.480
<v Speaker 1>stay at home with Madison or leave the child in

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00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>the care of someone else. If they wanted to scout

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00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:00.799
<v Speaker 1>a location that they were planning to make their new home,

302
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:03.240
<v Speaker 1>then yes, it makes a lot more sense to bring

303
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Madison there. And then there's the fact that the Jamisons

304
00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:09.200
<v Speaker 1>brought the family puppy, Maizie to the location and left

305
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.159
<v Speaker 1>or locked inside the truck, which nearly led to her

306
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.440
<v Speaker 1>starving to death. I mean, perhaps we shouldn't be attempting

307
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.039
<v Speaker 1>to apply standard logic to the Jamison's actions, but if

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00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:21.879
<v Speaker 1>Bobby and Sherlyn were always planning on some sort of

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00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:26.039
<v Speaker 1>murder suicide, it just seems exceptionally cruel to lock their

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00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.480
<v Speaker 1>dog up to slowly die over the course of several days,

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00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.720
<v Speaker 1>rather than simply shooting her. By all accounts, Madison was

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00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.919
<v Speaker 1>completely attached to Maisie and considered the dog to be

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00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:39.720
<v Speaker 1>her best friend, so she likely would have had a

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00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>meltdown if someone attempted to separate them against her will.

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00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:45.759
<v Speaker 1>This is why it's tempting to believe that an outside

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00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.519
<v Speaker 1>party drove the Jamisons or forced them to walk to

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00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.679
<v Speaker 1>the location they were found while keeping the dog locked

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00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.240
<v Speaker 1>in the truck. This wouldn't be the first case I've

319
00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.480
<v Speaker 1>seen in which someone had no qualms about murdering multiple people,

320
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.159
<v Speaker 1>including a child, but drew the line at heart me

321
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>an animal.

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00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.279
<v Speaker 3>I think when you look at this too, for me

323
00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.440
<v Speaker 3>the animal, why wouldn't you do the same with the animal.

324
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.279
<v Speaker 3>Why wouldn't you get someone to board the baby or

325
00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.160
<v Speaker 3>watch your fur baby and say listen, we'll be back

326
00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:16.119
<v Speaker 3>in three days. And you really have no intention of

327
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.200
<v Speaker 3>coming home, even if the plan was to do a

328
00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.640
<v Speaker 3>murder suicide kind of event. I also have been there

329
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.519
<v Speaker 3>where you're looking at real estate and you don't want

330
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.440
<v Speaker 3>the pressure of a real estate agent trying to convince

331
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.240
<v Speaker 3>you to buy the property, so you simply just want

332
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.200
<v Speaker 3>to go by and peek at it. It would make

333
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.279
<v Speaker 3>sense to take Madison at that point and the family dog,

334
00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.160
<v Speaker 3>like we're gonna go out there. We're going to look

335
00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.640
<v Speaker 3>at this property, let the dog lose, let the baby

336
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.160
<v Speaker 3>run around and play, and just see if we feel

337
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.720
<v Speaker 3>like this is a place we want to be. Find

338
00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.680
<v Speaker 3>it very interesting that Bobby's asking people about what it's

339
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.400
<v Speaker 3>like to live there. It's almost like he has that

340
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.640
<v Speaker 3>intent of saying, I want to see if this is

341
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.720
<v Speaker 3>the right place for my family, and he's actually inquiring

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00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.359
<v Speaker 3>about things that would make it livable and safe for

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00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.279
<v Speaker 3>his family to be there. It is interesting, though, when

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00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.599
<v Speaker 3>you find this dog locked up. Although when we talk

345
00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:12.799
<v Speaker 3>about true crime, we tease about it that people, you know,

346
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.200
<v Speaker 3>they love to watch the true crime part of the case,

347
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.640
<v Speaker 3>but once you hurt an animal, well you've gone way

348
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.839
<v Speaker 3>too far. Could someone have been willing to lock that

349
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:26.160
<v Speaker 3>dog in the car to hope that it survived, or

350
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.160
<v Speaker 3>could the dog have been one that made them uncomfortable

351
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.920
<v Speaker 3>or scared that they might attack while hurting their owner.

352
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.599
<v Speaker 3>That's a possibility too, so they locked the dog in

353
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.359
<v Speaker 3>the car. It just seems bizarre, Like you said, if

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00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm going off to complete suicide, I don't bring my family,

355
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.359
<v Speaker 3>I don't bring the dog. If I'm doing a murder suicide,

356
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:45.559
<v Speaker 3>why did I bring the dog and not execute it? Too,

357
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.519
<v Speaker 3>very very bizarre scenario. Bobby is showing signs of actually

358
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:53.680
<v Speaker 3>being interested in the property, but some of the other

359
00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.799
<v Speaker 3>steps make it seem like was he preparing for something

360
00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.240
<v Speaker 3>else as well, or was it maybe sherry Lynn who

361
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.039
<v Speaker 3>was preparing the darkness while Bobby was excited about buying

362
00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:04.680
<v Speaker 3>this property.

363
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.880
<v Speaker 2>That is true because if Bobby was planning a murder suicide,

364
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:10.880
<v Speaker 2>it really doesn't make much sense that he would stop

365
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.480
<v Speaker 2>by and ask for directions, because from his point of view,

366
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't really matter where we go. If we're going

367
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:17.640
<v Speaker 2>to end things, we can just go to some random,

368
00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:20.400
<v Speaker 2>remote area. We don't have to pick a specific property.

369
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:24.079
<v Speaker 2>So his behavior does demonstrate that he seemed to be

370
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.200
<v Speaker 2>legitimately interested in buying land. But of course that doesn't

371
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>rule out the possibility that Sherilyn was always planning to

372
00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.720
<v Speaker 2>end things once they arrived at this spot. Now, one

373
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:36.200
<v Speaker 2>odd detail which doesn't seem to make any sense is

374
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.720
<v Speaker 2>that Bobby's cell phone was used to call its voicemail

375
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.960
<v Speaker 2>on October the twelfth, four days after the family first

376
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.440
<v Speaker 2>arrived at that spot, And what are the chances that

377
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Bobby would have still been alive there after all that time.

378
00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.160
<v Speaker 2>But since the cell phone was locked inside the truck

379
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.279
<v Speaker 2>with Mazie, the most logical explanation might be that she

380
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.039
<v Speaker 2>accidentally stepped on a button which caused the phone to

381
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.559
<v Speaker 2>call voicemail. So this detail might not have any relevance

382
00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:02.720
<v Speaker 2>to this case. Judging from the footprints of the scene

383
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:06.640
<v Speaker 2>and the GPS coordinates on Bobby's cell phone, investigators believe

384
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.680
<v Speaker 2>that the entire family walked up a nearby hill towards

385
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.480
<v Speaker 2>a large rock, which is where the final photograph of

386
00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Madison was taken with the cell phone. You can look

387
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.200
<v Speaker 2>up that photo online and judge for yourself, but it's

388
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.640
<v Speaker 2>always been the subject of device of reactions and interpretations.

389
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Some people, including the Jamison's relatives and friends, believe that

390
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Madison looks frightened and uncomfortable, possibly because the photo was

391
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.400
<v Speaker 2>being taken by someone else besides your parents. But if

392
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.240
<v Speaker 2>you search any online discussions about this case, you'll find

393
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.759
<v Speaker 2>a number of commenters who believe there's nothing out of

394
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:42.200
<v Speaker 2>the ordinary about it. Well, obviously, the fact that this

395
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.200
<v Speaker 2>would be the last photograph of Madison before something happened

396
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.480
<v Speaker 2>to her is incredibly eerie, But I personally have never

397
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:50.880
<v Speaker 2>gotten the sense that it was taken while something bad

398
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.680
<v Speaker 2>was happening, and I just don't get the impression there's

399
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.200
<v Speaker 2>genuine fear on the girl's face. Yes, the manner in

400
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>which your arms are crossed is odd, but it also

401
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.440
<v Speaker 2>comes across as a typical reaction from a six year

402
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>old who is not in the mood to have their

403
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.960
<v Speaker 2>picture taken. I'm sure anyone with children has had moments

404
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.960
<v Speaker 2>where they just happened to snap a photo of a

405
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.039
<v Speaker 2>kid at the exact wrong second, and the end result

406
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:16.559
<v Speaker 2>looks incredibly awkward. I'm sure there are many family photos

407
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:18.880
<v Speaker 2>out there of children giving off the same type of

408
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>reaction as Madison, But because those kids didn't wind up

409
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.599
<v Speaker 2>going missing, there's nothing ominous about them. I wouldn't roll

410
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:28.599
<v Speaker 2>out the possibility that Madison could have been uncomfortable because

411
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.359
<v Speaker 2>her parents were doing something she did not like. But

412
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:33.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't buy the theory that this photo was taken

413
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.599
<v Speaker 2>by a stranger. Remember, Bobby's cell phone was found inside

414
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.240
<v Speaker 2>the truck, so I'm not sure why an outside party

415
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.200
<v Speaker 2>would go to the trouble of using the phone to

416
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.480
<v Speaker 2>snap this picture before walking back down the hill and

417
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:46.559
<v Speaker 2>locking it in the truck.

418
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:50.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, when you look at the picture. To me, when

419
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.960
<v Speaker 3>I first pulled it up, I thought, awkward, six year old.

420
00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.400
<v Speaker 3>I can go through my phone and pull fifty pictures

421
00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.880
<v Speaker 3>where I'm behind the camera going can you please look normal?

422
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.400
<v Speaker 3>Can you please smile for the camera? Put your arms down, honey? Right,

423
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.119
<v Speaker 3>trying to make her look quote normal, And she's just

424
00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.039
<v Speaker 3>a silly, awkward kid, right that does a silly face,

425
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.079
<v Speaker 3>is frustrated, has had you know, doesn't want their picture taken.

426
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.119
<v Speaker 3>Like you said, So it's hard to read into it.

427
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.319
<v Speaker 3>But if you're the family and you're saying, this is

428
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:22.519
<v Speaker 3>the last picture that was taken of her, look at

429
00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.319
<v Speaker 3>how quote uncomfortable she looks. Is it because someone else

430
00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:28.440
<v Speaker 3>is behind the camera. I could see that kind of

431
00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:32.000
<v Speaker 3>almost hope that that would be a lead right, or

432
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.440
<v Speaker 3>a clue that could help bring a resolution, especially when

433
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.680
<v Speaker 3>these babies were missing, where the family's saying something's wrong

434
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.039
<v Speaker 3>in this picture, see if this is a clue. To me,

435
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:44.599
<v Speaker 3>it does look more like the awkward kid. I find

436
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.400
<v Speaker 3>it bizarre that her little clothes don't quite fit right.

437
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.279
<v Speaker 3>They're out on this trip to hopefully scout out property.

438
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:54.440
<v Speaker 3>It's possible that they simply just didn't have the resources

439
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.480
<v Speaker 3>to dress her and clothes that fit. It's possible, too, though,

440
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:59.720
<v Speaker 3>that that's a sign that she was being neglected, or

441
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.559
<v Speaker 3>that her health was just not the priority at that moment.

442
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.839
<v Speaker 3>They might have been so mentally distressed that they just

443
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.720
<v Speaker 3>didn't have the ability to care for her the way

444
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.319
<v Speaker 3>she needed to be cared for. And or that was

445
00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.519
<v Speaker 3>her favorite darn shirt and she refused not to wear

446
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 3>it that day, even when her parents said it didn't fit.

447
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.079
<v Speaker 3>So a million things to be happening in that photo.

448
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.079
<v Speaker 3>To me, I would default to an awkward kid, like

449
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.240
<v Speaker 3>you said, Robin. If she hadn't gone missing, nothing would

450
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.079
<v Speaker 3>have ever been thought of this picture, I don't think.

451
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.759
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, actually I figured you were going to say

452
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.519
<v Speaker 2>that that you were going to because you're a parent

453
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:32.799
<v Speaker 2>that you were going to tell me you have a

454
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:35.400
<v Speaker 2>whole bunch of your own awkward photos of your child

455
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.799
<v Speaker 2>looking similar down Madison looks. But because they were just

456
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.119
<v Speaker 2>taken at a normal time and your children did not

457
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>go missing, there was nothing out of the ordinary about them.

458
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:46.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. And think about all the family pictures like

459
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.240
<v Speaker 3>your friend's post where they go spend a lot of

460
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:50.359
<v Speaker 3>money on family pictures.

461
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Today.

462
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.119
<v Speaker 3>Looks like Susie wasn't in the mood, right, and there's

463
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:57.319
<v Speaker 3>one kid that's just like pouting or staring off into

464
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:01.400
<v Speaker 3>space or being weird, and you're like, God, bless every

465
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.359
<v Speaker 3>everybody else looked at the camera. But all she did

466
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:06.599
<v Speaker 3>was keep her mouth gaping open and her arms cross

467
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.839
<v Speaker 3>the entire photo shoot. Right, So it's real hard to

468
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:13.480
<v Speaker 3>force a kiddo to pose the way you want them

469
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:16.440
<v Speaker 3>to and never come out with a picture that you go,

470
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.240
<v Speaker 3>what a weird bird? Right, that's my kid being a

471
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.880
<v Speaker 3>fruitcake right now. So I think it's very possible she

472
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:25.519
<v Speaker 3>was just hot and fed up and don't take my picture.

473
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:30.960
<v Speaker 1>The theory presented by Sheriff Beechen was that after the

474
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 1>photo was taken, the Jamisons walked down the hill, on

475
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.680
<v Speaker 1>their own and climbed into the truck to drive away

476
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:41.160
<v Speaker 1>until someone else unexpectedly showed up. But investigators have never

477
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.200
<v Speaker 1>given off any indication that they found tire tracks from

478
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.359
<v Speaker 1>an outside vehicle at the scene, and while eight days

479
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.599
<v Speaker 1>passed before the Sheriff's office arrived, they were able to

480
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.759
<v Speaker 1>find the Jamison's footprints, so you'd think that additional tire

481
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:56.599
<v Speaker 1>tracks would have been preserved as well. There was a

482
00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:59.680
<v Speaker 1>local resident who said they saw the Jamison's truck driving

483
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:03.440
<v Speaker 1>towards the area on October eighth, but never saw them leave,

484
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:06.799
<v Speaker 1>and they also did not see anyone else enter or

485
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:09.640
<v Speaker 1>leave the area as well. Of course, I'm sure the

486
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.200
<v Speaker 1>witness didn't have their eyes on the road the entire time,

487
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>so it's possible someone else could have driven up there

488
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.359
<v Speaker 1>without being noticed. But it's such a remote spot that

489
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>it makes you wonder how an outside party would have

490
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:24.480
<v Speaker 1>even known the family was there. I suppose that Jamison's

491
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 1>could have made arrangements to meet someone or followed to

492
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:30.839
<v Speaker 1>that spot, as they had already gone there the previous day.

493
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.559
<v Speaker 1>The scenario about them being confronted by an outside party

494
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.359
<v Speaker 1>while they were attempting to leave made sense back in

495
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.720
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and nine, since they were still missing, because

496
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:44.400
<v Speaker 1>for all anyone knew, the family could have been abducted. However,

497
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the family's remains were ultimately found just under three miles away,

498
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.839
<v Speaker 1>and if no one else was involved, you have to

499
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.200
<v Speaker 1>wonder how they got from point A to point B.

500
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.599
<v Speaker 1>For starters, Bobby's back and chronic pain issues, as we mentioned,

501
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Speaker 1>made it very difficult for him to walk long distances,

502
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:04.759
<v Speaker 1>especially on rugged terrain, so it doesn't make sense that

503
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 1>he would go there on his own accord, even if

504
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.519
<v Speaker 1>he was planning a murder suicide. Why create a bunch

505
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:14.160
<v Speaker 1>of additional pain for himself by walking nearly three miles.

506
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Another theory which has been presented is that the family

507
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.880
<v Speaker 1>wandered off and got lost before they succumbed to exposure.

508
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:23.799
<v Speaker 1>But why would they lock all their personal items of

509
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.119
<v Speaker 1>the truck. It was reportedly a very chilly day, so

510
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:30.559
<v Speaker 1>there's no reason to leave their jackets there. We know

511
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 1>they use the GPS coordinates on Bobby's cell phone to

512
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.400
<v Speaker 1>walk up the hill towards the rock, so it makes

513
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.880
<v Speaker 1>no sense for them to come back down, put the

514
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 1>phone in the truck, and then walk in a different

515
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 1>direction without it. But like we said earlier, if we're

516
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.720
<v Speaker 1>talking about people with serious mental health issues who could

517
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.799
<v Speaker 1>have been planning a murder suicide, then trying to find

518
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.880
<v Speaker 1>logic in their actions might be pointless for sure.

519
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.960
<v Speaker 3>I also think, in my gut, it's not Bobby necessarily

520
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.000
<v Speaker 3>who's leaning towards this murder suicide. If that's what happened,

521
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:06.759
<v Speaker 3>it seems like sherry Lynn was more prone to have

522
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:10.319
<v Speaker 3>a lack of concern for her own well being, much

523
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.319
<v Speaker 3>less her families, and she had written that letter that

524
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.680
<v Speaker 3>she was dissatisfied with him. She was the one who

525
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.319
<v Speaker 3>was really talking about the demonic forces with her child.

526
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 3>So I think it's possible that when Bobby said, hey,

527
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:27.000
<v Speaker 3>let's go look at this property, she says, perfect, let's go,

528
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:31.319
<v Speaker 3>and maybe not even planning initially to have this happen,

529
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.319
<v Speaker 3>could have been the one who actually prompts let's go

530
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:36.519
<v Speaker 3>on this hike, let's go out on this walk, let's

531
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:39.440
<v Speaker 3>go do this or that, and is the one who

532
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:42.839
<v Speaker 3>actually acts because Bobby, like we said earlier, is showing

533
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.079
<v Speaker 3>signs that he truly did want to see this piece

534
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.559
<v Speaker 3>of property. What is it like to live here?

535
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 2>Right?

536
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.680
<v Speaker 3>Can you give me directions? To this piece of property.

537
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:54.640
<v Speaker 3>He's asking the questions that show a deeper interest, and

538
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.400
<v Speaker 3>we don't hear that from shery Lynn. We don't see

539
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.759
<v Speaker 3>her behaviors at that point. Maybe it wasn't him planning it.

540
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:05.119
<v Speaker 3>Maybe he's convinced by sherry Lynn to go on this

541
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 3>hike or go on this walk, and he's hurting or complaining.

542
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:09.799
<v Speaker 3>She said, come on, honey, we have to go. We

543
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 3>got to keep going, and therefore he's conned into it.

544
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.119
<v Speaker 3>So that's a possibility as well. I agree with you.

545
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a greater possibility that if somebody was

546
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.440
<v Speaker 1>planning this, we see more warning signs with sher Lynn.

547
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.559
<v Speaker 1>And I think if she did indeed go to this

548
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.799
<v Speaker 1>place three miles out, that is the big question mark

549
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:31.039
<v Speaker 1>for me. I don't know why, but she wasn't in

550
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:35.039
<v Speaker 1>a healthy mental state, So again, if we're trying to

551
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.680
<v Speaker 1>apply logic to what was her decision, but I just

552
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.880
<v Speaker 1>think it would have been a really arduous process to

553
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:43.519
<v Speaker 1>try to drag Bobby three miles and Madison as well.

554
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't think either one of them would have been

555
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.160
<v Speaker 1>easy to move. And then I guess I could see

556
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:50.960
<v Speaker 1>a scenario where she could have had her twenty two

557
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:54.519
<v Speaker 1>caliber and maybe ended their lives through the gun somewhere

558
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.359
<v Speaker 1>and then ended her life in another manner. But it

559
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>just seems like such a long hike.

560
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like, if she had her gun, she could have

561
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:05.640
<v Speaker 2>maybe forced Bobby to walk three miles at gunpoint, because

562
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.480
<v Speaker 2>she's obviously not going to care about how much paint

563
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.039
<v Speaker 2>he's in if she's planning on killing him, and she

564
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:12.759
<v Speaker 2>could probably make the hike on her own, but of

565
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:15.000
<v Speaker 2>course she's got to bring Madison along with her, and

566
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.519
<v Speaker 2>it just seems so pointless, even for someone with mental

567
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:20.480
<v Speaker 2>health issues. Why are you going to the trouble of

568
00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:23.319
<v Speaker 2>walking a great distance when you don't even have to.

569
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Of course, the big puzzler in this case is the

570
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:29.440
<v Speaker 2>thirty two thousand dollars hidden under the driver's seat in

571
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:32.519
<v Speaker 2>the truck. If the family was murdered by someone, then

572
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.920
<v Speaker 2>I can understand them not taking this money, as it

573
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.359
<v Speaker 2>was so well concealed that the killer might not have

574
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:40.079
<v Speaker 2>even known it was there. But that only raises the

575
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.119
<v Speaker 2>question why did the Jamisons bring it to this location

576
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.480
<v Speaker 2>in the first place. In fact, since Bobby and Sherlyn

577
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.640
<v Speaker 2>were both unemployed and lived on disability, where did all

578
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.960
<v Speaker 2>that cash come from. It sounds like Bobby received a

579
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:55.680
<v Speaker 2>settlement from the accident which injured him and his mother

580
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>said the amount was sixty four thousand dollars, which he

581
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:01.960
<v Speaker 2>split with Sherlyn. Given that thirty two thousand dollars is

582
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.960
<v Speaker 2>half that amount, the numbers do add up. And there's

583
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 2>also the fact that the security footage showed shre Lind

584
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Speaker 2>loading a brown briefcase into the truck before the family

585
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 2>left the residence. Since this briefcase has never been accounted for,

586
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:17.799
<v Speaker 2>could it have contained Sharland's split of the settlement money.

587
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.319
<v Speaker 2>If oulplay took place and there was a lot of

588
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.480
<v Speaker 2>cash in the briefcase, then the perpetrator might have stolen

589
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:27.039
<v Speaker 2>it without even being aware that there was additional money

590
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 2>under the driver's seat. If that thirty two thousand dollars

591
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:32.920
<v Speaker 2>was settlement money, then I can see why Bobby might

592
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:35.880
<v Speaker 2>have elected to keep the entire amounting cash rather than

593
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:38.960
<v Speaker 2>deposited in the bank. The United States is known for

594
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>being very rigid when it comes to checking the finances

595
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:44.599
<v Speaker 2>of people who are on disability to ensure they're not

596
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.839
<v Speaker 2>making too much money and scamming the government, So perhaps

597
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Bobby did not want to leave a paper trail. But

598
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>if that's the case, why did Bobby bring all this

599
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.920
<v Speaker 2>cash to Latimer County with him. I know that Bobby

600
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:58.559
<v Speaker 2>learned about this plot of land from the Internet, but

601
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't have any information about who was actually selling it,

602
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.640
<v Speaker 2>and if Bobby could have just approached them with thirty

603
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:07.559
<v Speaker 2>two thousand dollars in cash in order to purchase the land.

604
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:10.279
<v Speaker 2>This is why there has been so much speculation that

605
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the money was going to be used for something illegal,

606
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.279
<v Speaker 2>such as buying drugs, though no evidence has ever been

607
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 2>found to support this theory. If the family was planning

608
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.319
<v Speaker 2>to orchestrate some sort of murdered suicide, it makes you

609
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 2>wonder why they would bother bringing all that cash with them.

610
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:26.960
<v Speaker 2>But then again, it's possible that only one of the

611
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.720
<v Speaker 2>parents was planning something like that and the other was

612
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.079
<v Speaker 2>taken by complete surprise. In the end, the money was

613
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>turned over to the closest surviving air, which was Bobby's mother, Starlet,

614
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.359
<v Speaker 2>So if he was feeling suicidal, perhaps Bobby wanted to

615
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.880
<v Speaker 2>ensure the money would be found and she would receive it.

616
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:46.839
<v Speaker 3>But that still doesn't explain the suitcase that would go missing,

617
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.559
<v Speaker 3>or that they never recovered. They could have also had

618
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:53.319
<v Speaker 3>money in it. What's interesting is that Bobby's money wasn't

619
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:58.400
<v Speaker 3>very clearly displayed. It was hidden under tools under his seat, right.

620
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:01.599
<v Speaker 3>So while yeah, a whole search of the car would

621
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.160
<v Speaker 3>have revealed it, if he was really hoping his mom

622
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:06.119
<v Speaker 3>was going to get it, wouldn't he have written a

623
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 3>note and put it on the you know, on the seat,

624
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:13.279
<v Speaker 3>or left a box it said for mom and it

625
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:14.960
<v Speaker 3>would have been in there. It just seems like it

626
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:18.400
<v Speaker 3>was hidden. I actually had never thought about what you said, Robin,

627
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:20.599
<v Speaker 3>that maybe he had the cash with him so he

628
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.680
<v Speaker 3>could purchase the land out right, and maybe he could

629
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 3>just do a cash sale with the owner of it.

630
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 3>I do think it would be very hard to quote

631
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.440
<v Speaker 3>hide the money from the government, though, because oftentimes under

632
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:36.160
<v Speaker 3>taxes you're asked about any lawsuits or legal matters that

633
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.400
<v Speaker 3>have been settled in the past year, and so I

634
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 3>believe they would have had to report that it's a

635
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.880
<v Speaker 3>court process that got them the money. So it's it

636
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.920
<v Speaker 3>would be pretty hard to hide a legal settlement. So

637
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.160
<v Speaker 3>I think having the cash on hand to make a

638
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:56.319
<v Speaker 3>property purchase might be a more valid explanation, but not

639
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:59.279
<v Speaker 3>sure they could have completely skirted by without the government

640
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.200
<v Speaker 3>having accountability for that money.

641
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Unfortunately, you don't have any information about what happened

642
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.200
<v Speaker 2>to the money after the settlement took place, if he

643
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.799
<v Speaker 2>ever did put it in the bank, because they've never

644
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.480
<v Speaker 2>reported anything about Bobby making any large cash withdrawals or

645
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 2>emptying his bank account in the days or weeks prior

646
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:19.279
<v Speaker 2>to his disappearance, So it's still a big mystery where

647
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.160
<v Speaker 2>all that cash came from.

648
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.440
<v Speaker 1>In addition to the photograph of Madison, the other odd

649
00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:27.519
<v Speaker 1>detail which has been the subject of a lot of

650
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:31.200
<v Speaker 1>debate is the security footage of Bobby and Sherilyn loading

651
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:33.759
<v Speaker 1>their truck with items on the morning they went missing,

652
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.839
<v Speaker 1>as they reportedly walked back and forth around twenty times

653
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 1>while never acknowledging or speaking to each other, and they

654
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:43.599
<v Speaker 1>were described as being in a trance like state. I've

655
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:46.160
<v Speaker 1>seen a lot of online commentors state that they don't

656
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:49.400
<v Speaker 1>believe there's anything unusual about this video at all. Well,

657
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.319
<v Speaker 1>the problem is that general public has only seen snippets

658
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:54.720
<v Speaker 1>of it. If you search for it on YouTube, you'll

659
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.960
<v Speaker 1>only find very brief clips that show several seconds worth

660
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:01.000
<v Speaker 1>of still frames, and the quality is so poor that

661
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:04.799
<v Speaker 1>it's impossible to clearly see Bobby and Shrilyn's faces or

662
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 1>determine if they're in a so called trance like state. However,

663
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.639
<v Speaker 1>it was Sheriff Beacham who used the phrase trance like

664
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:15.360
<v Speaker 1>on the Disappeared episode. He's seen the entire footage, so

665
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:18.800
<v Speaker 1>maybe he has a different interpretation, and I know one.

666
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Psychologists believe that Bobby and Sharlyn's behavior in the video

667
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.679
<v Speaker 1>match the symptoms of people who were on drugs, but

668
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.199
<v Speaker 1>given that the marriage was not in a great place

669
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.920
<v Speaker 1>and the couple had apparently been considering divorce, not speaking

670
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 1>to each other while loading a truck might not be

671
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 1>that unusual. However, Charylyn's friend Nikki Schenneld once mentioned during

672
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:42.400
<v Speaker 1>an interview that she noticed what she believed to be

673
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.719
<v Speaker 1>an additional person. In the footage, which is available publicly,

674
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.599
<v Speaker 1>you can see separate sections which show a man wearing

675
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:52.079
<v Speaker 1>a white shirt and a brown shirt, and even though

676
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.119
<v Speaker 1>you can't see his face clearly, the assumption seems to

677
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:57.960
<v Speaker 1>be that Bobby simply changed his shirt at some point

678
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.360
<v Speaker 1>when he walked back into the house, but according to Nikki,

679
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.960
<v Speaker 1>there are a few frames where you can briefly see

680
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.800
<v Speaker 1>your reflection in the truck's window, which simultaneously shows two

681
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.519
<v Speaker 1>different men in a white shirt and a brown shirt.

682
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I haven't personally seen this part of the footage,

683
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.480
<v Speaker 1>so I can't say for certain, but I know that

684
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:19.039
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement studied it extensively, and I've never heard them

685
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.960
<v Speaker 1>bring up the possibility of another man being with Bobby

686
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.880
<v Speaker 1>and Sherilyn when they left the house that day. You

687
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.239
<v Speaker 1>could assume that this person traveled with the family to

688
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:30.639
<v Speaker 1>Latimer County and did something to them, But the problem

689
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.920
<v Speaker 1>is that the truck was left there, so unless this

690
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.400
<v Speaker 1>person met up with someone else who gave them a ride,

691
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:37.679
<v Speaker 1>how did they manage to get out of the area

692
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Like the photo of Madison. I'm not sure the security

693
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.400
<v Speaker 1>footage has any real relevance to the case, and people

694
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:46.719
<v Speaker 1>might just be reading too much into it because the

695
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.199
<v Speaker 1>family later went missing. I knew they believed their house

696
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.119
<v Speaker 1>was haunted by spirits, but just because they were described

697
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.760
<v Speaker 1>as being in a trance like state does not mean

698
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.400
<v Speaker 1>they were possessed by demons or that there was anything

699
00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:59.760
<v Speaker 1>supernatural at work here.

700
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:00.840
<v Speaker 2>No.

701
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:02.840
<v Speaker 3>I think you're right, Jules when you talk about the

702
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.239
<v Speaker 3>fact that they were already having issues that there's mental

703
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:08.559
<v Speaker 3>health issues at play as well. It's not uncommon to

704
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:10.519
<v Speaker 3>think that a couple could be loading the car on

705
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.920
<v Speaker 3>a trip and be frustrated with each other, be tired,

706
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.840
<v Speaker 3>be distressed, be preoccupied, be fixated on the details of

707
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:19.719
<v Speaker 3>leaving on a trip. I mean, there's a lot of

708
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:23.079
<v Speaker 3>reasons why they might be inn a quote trance like state,

709
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:26.880
<v Speaker 3>maybe not engaging with each other as much. So I

710
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.840
<v Speaker 3>think again, when you watch these videos, because you're looking

711
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:33.559
<v Speaker 3>at it from a lens of something went wrong, something happened,

712
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:36.320
<v Speaker 3>it's a lot easier to read into it and start

713
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.440
<v Speaker 3>to analyze the behavior from a kind of a more

714
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.400
<v Speaker 3>macab point of view. But if you were just watching it,

715
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.480
<v Speaker 3>you might and you didn't know that they were missing,

716
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:46.400
<v Speaker 3>you might be able to look at it and say, well,

717
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 3>clearly they're distressed, or clearly something's bothering them, or you

718
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:52.519
<v Speaker 3>might actually say, look, they just seem like they're on

719
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.079
<v Speaker 3>a mission to get the car packed up and get

720
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:57.880
<v Speaker 3>the heck out of there. When you guys see these clips,

721
00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.800
<v Speaker 3>I know you said you didn't see the clips of

722
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:02.800
<v Speaker 3>peop changing shirts, but is there a lot of support

723
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.039
<v Speaker 3>that there could have been a third person there, because

724
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:09.719
<v Speaker 3>that would cause a whole new dynamic to the case

725
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:12.519
<v Speaker 3>if you were talking about three adults traveling with Madison

726
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:13.920
<v Speaker 3>and not just the two.

727
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:17.239
<v Speaker 2>Literally, the only person I've seen bring that up is

728
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Nicky Cherylyn's friend. I've never heard shre Beecham or anyone

729
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.360
<v Speaker 2>from law enforcement bring up the possibility of a third person,

730
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:25.719
<v Speaker 2>so I think she's probably just trying to read into

731
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:28.440
<v Speaker 2>something from watching the footage, trying to figure out what happened.

732
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.000
<v Speaker 2>But even though I've not personally seen it, I'm very

733
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.599
<v Speaker 2>skeptical that there is an additional man there who climbed

734
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:37.360
<v Speaker 2>into the truck with them. But theoretically, if the entire

735
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.239
<v Speaker 2>family were victims of foul play from an outside party,

736
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:43.440
<v Speaker 2>who could have been responsible. Well, the initial stages of

737
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.920
<v Speaker 2>the investigation had a couple of potentially interesting suspects who

738
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:50.599
<v Speaker 2>have all but been eliminated. There's Bobby's father, Bob Dan

739
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Jamison Senior, who sounds like a real piece of work.

740
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.599
<v Speaker 2>It sounds very unlikely that he was personally involved with

741
00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:58.559
<v Speaker 2>what happened, since he was not in the best of

742
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.239
<v Speaker 2>health at that time. I had only two months after

743
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the family went missing, but I would definitely be curious

744
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.920
<v Speaker 2>to know more about this guy's backstory. According to his obituary,

745
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Bobby was Bob's only child, but we have allegations that

746
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.239
<v Speaker 2>Bob cheated his own son out of money, tried to

747
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:16.199
<v Speaker 2>hit him with a car, and threatened to kill his

748
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.800
<v Speaker 2>entire family. And I think it says a lot that

749
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.159
<v Speaker 2>his wife, Starlett, decided to divorce him after four decades

750
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:24.800
<v Speaker 2>of marriage and was the one who suggested that Bobby

751
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.800
<v Speaker 2>put up the security cameras to protect himself. I have

752
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 2>no idea if Bob and Bobby always had a fractured

753
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:33.280
<v Speaker 2>relationship or if it just wound up going bad near

754
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.719
<v Speaker 2>the end. But even though Bob cut his son out

755
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:37.960
<v Speaker 2>of his will, he still seemed to care enough about

756
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:40.840
<v Speaker 2>his granddaughter to leave everything to her, though no one

757
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.440
<v Speaker 2>expected Madison to be a missing person by the time

758
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Bob passed away. It is interesting that Bobby had been

759
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.760
<v Speaker 2>involved in no less than three lawsuits at the time

760
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:53.079
<v Speaker 2>before he disappeared. His lawsuit for the injuries he sustained

761
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.440
<v Speaker 2>in the accident sounds pretty reasonable, and of course Bobby

762
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 2>suited against his father and never got the chance to

763
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.960
<v Speaker 2>be resolved. Sure love to know more details about why

764
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:05.280
<v Speaker 2>he filed the lawsuit against the school district after Madison

765
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:09.400
<v Speaker 2>was pulled out of school. After investigating their backgrounds, Sheriff

766
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Beecham once made a comment in which you referred to

767
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Bobby and Schrilyn as quote unquote scammers. I'm not sure

768
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:18.119
<v Speaker 2>already meant by that, but since they could no longer work,

769
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:20.840
<v Speaker 2>perhaps they had started a racket where they would file

770
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.800
<v Speaker 2>frivolous lawsuits as their means of generating income. If so,

771
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:27.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's possible that their actions could have angered

772
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the wrong people and led to them being murdered, but

773
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.199
<v Speaker 2>there's no evidence to support this. We also have Kenneth Bellows,

774
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the white supremacist boarder whom Cherlyn kicked out of the

775
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.239
<v Speaker 2>house a few months before the disappearances, but it sounds

776
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 2>like he was in jail during the time period the

777
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.679
<v Speaker 2>family went missing, which is about as strong an alibi

778
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.599
<v Speaker 2>as you can get. I guess the only reason you

779
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:50.280
<v Speaker 2>can't completely dismiss Bellow's involvement is because of that weird

780
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.880
<v Speaker 2>anonymous phone call Nicki Shenhold received from a woman who

781
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.679
<v Speaker 2>claimed that the family was murdered by a white supremacy group.

782
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.320
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's possible this group could have decided to

783
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.199
<v Speaker 2>kill the Jamis since's revenge for Bellows being kicked out

784
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:05.360
<v Speaker 2>of the house, But that's a pretty weak motive unless

785
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:07.960
<v Speaker 2>they were following the Jamisons. How could the group know

786
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:11.079
<v Speaker 2>they'd be at that particular remote area at that particular

787
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:12.519
<v Speaker 2>time that.

788
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.239
<v Speaker 3>This family decided to leave on this day, they're going

789
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:17.760
<v Speaker 3>to this remote area and will be able to keep

790
00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:20.480
<v Speaker 3>them and get them away from other people. It's interesting

791
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:22.199
<v Speaker 3>to me that Nicky seems to kind of be the

792
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:24.880
<v Speaker 3>source of a lot of information in this case. Is

793
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:28.519
<v Speaker 3>it just that she's the best friend of sherry Lynn

794
00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:30.679
<v Speaker 3>or that she happened to know their dynamics so well

795
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:32.599
<v Speaker 3>that she's such a major player in this case.

796
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:36.159
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Like she is Cherlyn's best friend, but

797
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:38.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how often she was around the family,

798
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:41.480
<v Speaker 2>like if she personally witnessed them, like display any of

799
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:44.280
<v Speaker 2>this erratic behavior, or if she had any concerns about

800
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Madison safety. But I do know that it's Nicki who

801
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:50.079
<v Speaker 2>keeps puishing forward the theories about them being the victims

802
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.599
<v Speaker 2>of foul play, because she talked about this tip with

803
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.760
<v Speaker 2>the White Supremacy group. She brought up this angle involving

804
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the additional man in the truck, so I get the

805
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.400
<v Speaker 2>impression that she legitimately DIDNY do not believe that Bobby

806
00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:03.800
<v Speaker 2>or chery Lynn would have been capable of harming their

807
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:06.920
<v Speaker 2>own daughter before killing themselves, which.

808
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:09.079
<v Speaker 3>Is really interesting because supposedly she would be one of

809
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:12.280
<v Speaker 3>the ones that knows them the best because she's one

810
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 3>of her best friends. It is kind of interesting that

811
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:18.039
<v Speaker 3>if it was the White Supremacy group that they would go, oh,

812
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:20.679
<v Speaker 3>we also know who her best friend is, Nikki, and

813
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:23.559
<v Speaker 3>we're gonna call her, not mom, not someone that you

814
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:26.360
<v Speaker 3>can look in the newspaper and tie them directly to

815
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:28.920
<v Speaker 3>this family They call the best friend to give them

816
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:32.039
<v Speaker 3>this clue about the ring. But I don't know. To me,

817
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:35.639
<v Speaker 3>it seems like the murder suicide is so much more

818
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:40.719
<v Speaker 3>likely than someone having that perfectly timed, opportunistic moment to

819
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:44.480
<v Speaker 3>go after this family that all the leads. Yes, there's

820
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:47.320
<v Speaker 3>several people, Like we talked about the White Supremacy group,

821
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 3>the issues with his dad and family kind of falling apart,

822
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.920
<v Speaker 3>the idea that witchcraft and devil worshiping, those kinds of

823
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:57.679
<v Speaker 3>things were discussed, or like at least turning to the

824
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:01.679
<v Speaker 3>Satanic Bible for help with demon But all of that

825
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:04.440
<v Speaker 3>would require, like you said, someone to watch this family

826
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.679
<v Speaker 3>know that they were setting off to look at this

827
00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.960
<v Speaker 3>property and finding them at just the right time where

828
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:12.519
<v Speaker 3>they've gotten out, taken a picture, returned to their truck,

829
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:15.159
<v Speaker 3>and then they're able to isolate them and kill them.

830
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:21.000
<v Speaker 3>It's very elaborate and very calculated, almost to a point

831
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:22.480
<v Speaker 3>of it just doesn't seem realistic.

832
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:25.800
<v Speaker 2>And we talked about this in our last episode. But

833
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:28.079
<v Speaker 2>I know that Nikki claimed that the woman who made

834
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 2>the anomalous phone call accurately described it insignia on Bobby's ring,

835
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:35.199
<v Speaker 2>which not many people knew, which seemed to suggest that

836
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:37.320
<v Speaker 2>she might have had knowledge of what happened. But again

837
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.079
<v Speaker 2>that also does not solve the problem is how would

838
00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:42.800
<v Speaker 2>this white supremacy group have known that the Jamisons would

839
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:44.840
<v Speaker 2>be in this area at that particular time.

840
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:49.800
<v Speaker 1>We also have the allegations from Sherilyn's mother that the

841
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.119
<v Speaker 1>family was put on a hit list from some sort

842
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:56.039
<v Speaker 1>of religious cult, but she's never provided any specific details

843
00:42:56.119 --> 00:42:59.280
<v Speaker 1>and I have no idea why she believed this. There

844
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:02.719
<v Speaker 1>are technically no strong suspects or persons of interest in

845
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.840
<v Speaker 1>this case, but once again, we really have no idea

846
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.800
<v Speaker 1>if there was anyone else involved to begin with. It's

847
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 1>interesting to compare this case to the mcday family disappearance,

848
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.760
<v Speaker 1>which we discussed in our last episode. At the outset,

849
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:18.440
<v Speaker 1>there was some evidence to suggest that the mix Days

850
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:22.639
<v Speaker 1>could have ran away and disappeared voluntarily, but unlike the Jamisons,

851
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.199
<v Speaker 1>the family did not have a history of erratic behavior,

852
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.519
<v Speaker 1>and there was nothing particularly unusual going on in their

853
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 1>lives at the time they went missing. However, because the

854
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:35.760
<v Speaker 1>circumstances of the disappearance were so baffling, there was one

855
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:38.280
<v Speaker 1>radio host who published a book about the case, which

856
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.400
<v Speaker 1>painted a less than flattering portrayal of the mother, Summer

857
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:44.199
<v Speaker 1>mixed Day, and suggested that she may have murdered her

858
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.159
<v Speaker 1>husband and fled the country with her two boys. Well,

859
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.840
<v Speaker 1>of course, once the entire family's remains were found in

860
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.000
<v Speaker 1>a shallow grave and it was clear that they were

861
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.960
<v Speaker 1>all murdered by a third party, the book was pulled

862
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.719
<v Speaker 1>from circulation, and the author even went so far as

863
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:01.400
<v Speaker 1>to offer a refund to everyone who purchased it. So, obviously,

864
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:04.239
<v Speaker 1>I would be very hesitant of accusing Bobby or Cherylyn

865
00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Jamison of killing their child or each other without definitive evidence.

866
00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:11.440
<v Speaker 1>You can understand why the family's loved ones would be

867
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:15.440
<v Speaker 1>pushing forward theories about religious cults and white supremacy groups

868
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:18.639
<v Speaker 1>and whatnot, because I'm sure they would prefer not to

869
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:21.679
<v Speaker 1>believe that Bobby or Shriylyn or both of them were

870
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.119
<v Speaker 1>capable of orchestrating a murder suicide, not to mention that

871
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:28.800
<v Speaker 1>if this is what actually happened, there's technically no way

872
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.679
<v Speaker 1>to prove it, and it means this mystery will remain

873
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:35.840
<v Speaker 1>unsolved forever without a resolution. If the family was murdered

874
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.559
<v Speaker 1>by a third party, then at least their killers out

875
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.719
<v Speaker 1>there somewhere who can be brought to justice and we

876
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:44.760
<v Speaker 1>could potentially learn the full truth about what happened. That's

877
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:47.840
<v Speaker 1>exactly what happened in the Mix staycase after the perpetrator

878
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:51.679
<v Speaker 1>was arrested and convicted. But that sort of thing might

879
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 1>just not be possible here.

880
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:55.599
<v Speaker 3>Well, just think about it. I mean, I know I

881
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:58.239
<v Speaker 3>brought up Andrea Yates on the last episode, but when

882
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:00.679
<v Speaker 3>you think about her, there were sign and she was

883
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:04.800
<v Speaker 3>capable of hurting her children and hurting herself, and still

884
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.239
<v Speaker 3>nobody paid attention to that or helped her or took

885
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 3>heed of those morning signs, so they still didn't believe

886
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:15.360
<v Speaker 3>she was capable of hurting her kids until she did it. Right.

887
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:18.519
<v Speaker 3>And so when you look at this and you talk

888
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:22.280
<v Speaker 3>about a family, think about when someone completes suicide, the

889
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:26.559
<v Speaker 3>gut instinct is, no, they couldn't have. They knew how

890
00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:28.679
<v Speaker 3>loved they were, they knew how bad we needed them.

891
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.559
<v Speaker 3>They couldn't have done this. Look at other explanations, right,

892
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.880
<v Speaker 3>because your heart doesn't want to believe that that's possible.

893
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:40.639
<v Speaker 3>And so then exaggerate that or expand that onto three

894
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:44.599
<v Speaker 3>individuals being deceased at the hands of one of those individuals,

895
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.760
<v Speaker 3>possibly or both the parents, maybe killing the baby. But

896
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:49.480
<v Speaker 3>you start to think about that like that just it

897
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:53.800
<v Speaker 3>can't be humanly possible. This is their own offspring, this

898
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:56.599
<v Speaker 3>is their own family. These are people that they loved.

899
00:45:57.119 --> 00:45:58.960
<v Speaker 3>They might hurt themselves, but they would never hurt the

900
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:03.039
<v Speaker 3>other people. So I think the default grief response is,

901
00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:05.960
<v Speaker 3>please let it be anything but that, because it seems

902
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:11.280
<v Speaker 3>so impossible, so inhumane, so out of character for anyone

903
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:13.800
<v Speaker 3>to think about a family member doing that to somebody else. So,

904
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:18.239
<v Speaker 3>while I understand there is a possibility for a third party.

905
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.960
<v Speaker 3>I also understand where just the natural grief and trauma

906
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:27.360
<v Speaker 3>aspect of what this case entails three people deceased, including

907
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.519
<v Speaker 3>a baby, I could see where no one would want

908
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.599
<v Speaker 3>to broach the subject of could it have been Bobby

909
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:37.119
<v Speaker 3>or sherry Lynn, because it just doesn't seem like anyone

910
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:39.840
<v Speaker 3>could do that to their own family. Yet historically we

911
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:43.280
<v Speaker 3>know that actually family annihilations are not that uncommon.

912
00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:47.119
<v Speaker 2>During online discussions of this case, I have seen the

913
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:51.000
<v Speaker 2>phrase foller adeux thrown around, which is the French translation

914
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:54.440
<v Speaker 2>for folly of two. It's also known as shared psychosis

915
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:57.880
<v Speaker 2>and shared delusional disorder, which is what happens with symptoms

916
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:01.599
<v Speaker 2>of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another.

917
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:05.000
<v Speaker 2>If the Jamisons were suffering from this, this might explain

918
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:08.079
<v Speaker 2>why Bobby and Sherilyn both expressed their belief that their

919
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:11.719
<v Speaker 2>home was haunted by spirits. They also claimed that Madison

920
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:13.880
<v Speaker 2>had been speaking to the ghost of a girl named Emily,

921
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.159
<v Speaker 2>but it could have been something as harmless as a

922
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:19.280
<v Speaker 2>six year old girl speaking with an imaginary friend, and

923
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.599
<v Speaker 2>her parents thinking it was something supernatural. I know that

924
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Jamison's friends and relatives believe that they believed that they

925
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:28.039
<v Speaker 2>were making a move to a remote area of Latimer

926
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:30.440
<v Speaker 2>County in order to repair their marriage and get a

927
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:33.440
<v Speaker 2>fresh start. But honestly, it would not surprise me at

928
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:36.079
<v Speaker 2>all if this entire decision was driven by the fact

929
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that they believed their home was haunted and felt they

930
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:41.280
<v Speaker 2>needed to get out of there. However, even though there

931
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:43.039
<v Speaker 2>are a number of holes in the murdered by a

932
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.679
<v Speaker 2>third party theory, there are still a number of things

933
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:48.760
<v Speaker 2>about the murder suicide scenario which don't make much sense.

934
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:51.679
<v Speaker 2>If this is what happened, how would these events have

935
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.760
<v Speaker 2>played out? After walking up a hill and taking a

936
00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:57.519
<v Speaker 2>photo of Madison next to a rock, what would compel

937
00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Bobby and sherilynd to walk back to their truck to

938
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:03.920
<v Speaker 2>lock their dog, cell phone, and personal items inside. Why

939
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:06.480
<v Speaker 2>would they then decide to take Madison and walk three

940
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:09.039
<v Speaker 2>miles to a remote spot before they killed her and

941
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.559
<v Speaker 2>took their own lives. If they used a gun, what

942
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:14.679
<v Speaker 2>happened to it and what became of the brown briefcase

943
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Sherilyn loaded into the truck. I could see animals making

944
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:20.880
<v Speaker 2>a small gun disappear, but could they really do the

945
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.519
<v Speaker 2>same to an entire briefcase? None of the theories in

946
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:27.199
<v Speaker 2>this case make one hundred percent complete sense, but at

947
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:31.760
<v Speaker 2>the same time, you can't completely eliminate all of them either. Myself,

948
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:34.199
<v Speaker 2>I think you can count me as being completely on

949
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.440
<v Speaker 2>the fence with this one, as there are just too

950
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:40.079
<v Speaker 2>many discrepancies in both the murder and suicide scenarios to

951
00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:44.800
<v Speaker 2>lean conclusively in either direction, regardless of which side you leaned.

952
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:47.159
<v Speaker 2>The biggest tragedy in this story is the fact that

953
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:50.360
<v Speaker 2>an innocent six year old girl lost her life, even

954
00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:53.840
<v Speaker 2>though there's no indication that Madison was ever abused or mistreated.

955
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:56.599
<v Speaker 2>Living in that household while our parents were going through

956
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.320
<v Speaker 2>all these different ordeals could not have been easy for

957
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.960
<v Speaker 2>This is why everyone wonders what exactly was going through

958
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Madison's mind when that cryptic final photograph was taken of her.

959
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:09.079
<v Speaker 2>It would be horrible enough if she was murdered by

960
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:12.480
<v Speaker 2>an unknown perpetrator a short time after that photo was taken,

961
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:14.960
<v Speaker 2>But if she lost her life at the hands of

962
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.840
<v Speaker 2>one or both of her parents while alone in those woods,

963
00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:22.199
<v Speaker 2>then that's just too frightening and heartbreaking to contemplate. There

964
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.199
<v Speaker 2>haven't been any serious developments in the investigation since the

965
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:28.519
<v Speaker 2>family's remains were discovered eleven years ago, but if no

966
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:31.079
<v Speaker 2>one else was involved, then there really isn't much that

967
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:34.079
<v Speaker 2>can be done. However, if there is someone out there

968
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:36.400
<v Speaker 2>who has gotten away with the murders of three people,

969
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:39.320
<v Speaker 2>that they deserve to be brought to justice. If you

970
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.239
<v Speaker 2>happen to have any information on the death of the

971
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Jamison family, please contact the Latimer County Sheriff's Office at

972
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:48.639
<v Speaker 2>nine one eight four sixty five two one sixty one.

973
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>That's nine one eight four sixty five two one sixty one,

974
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Jules Ashley. Any final thoughts in this case?

975
00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:58.559
<v Speaker 3>You know, the tragic thing in this case is, like

976
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:01.280
<v Speaker 3>you said, Robin, there's a six year old little girl

977
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:05.559
<v Speaker 3>and her parents who were deceased. If it was the

978
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:08.800
<v Speaker 3>event of a murder suicide, and you think about the

979
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:11.519
<v Speaker 3>tragic mental health state that had to be at play

980
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:14.760
<v Speaker 3>here for that to occur. For a parent or parents

981
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:18.159
<v Speaker 3>to think they needed to arm their daughter and themselves

982
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:20.920
<v Speaker 3>to get out of whatever situation they were facing, that

983
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:23.920
<v Speaker 3>is a major tragedy in and of itself, right, Maybe

984
00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:26.480
<v Speaker 3>the lack of care that was given to the parents,

985
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.960
<v Speaker 3>maybe a lack of resources and support that they needed

986
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:33.159
<v Speaker 3>when they were showing signs, right, everyone says, looking back,

987
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:36.360
<v Speaker 3>you saw these signs, well, people should have intervened or

988
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.880
<v Speaker 3>there should have been help provided. And if that's the

989
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:42.079
<v Speaker 3>explanation of what actually happened to this little girl and

990
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:45.159
<v Speaker 3>her parents, it's tragic in and of itself that the

991
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:47.880
<v Speaker 3>parents were at that point where they were in a

992
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:51.079
<v Speaker 3>place to harm their child. It's just pitiful. And then

993
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:53.440
<v Speaker 3>you have this other side that were there these other

994
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:56.840
<v Speaker 3>entities at play here? Was there someone from the witchcraft

995
00:50:56.920 --> 00:51:00.119
<v Speaker 3>or satanic community when the parents were reaching out to

996
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:03.360
<v Speaker 3>kind of rid their house and demons? Were there people

997
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:05.760
<v Speaker 3>who were part of the white supremacist group that were

998
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:09.159
<v Speaker 3>after this family for their Native American history and indigenous culture?

999
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:13.079
<v Speaker 3>Is it somebody who was upset with Bobby because of

1000
00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:16.280
<v Speaker 3>the lawsuits he was filing. Was it someone who sherry

1001
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:18.719
<v Speaker 3>Lynn had frustrated or made mad while she was in

1002
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:22.800
<v Speaker 3>one of her depressive or bipolar states. It's just so

1003
00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:26.800
<v Speaker 3>many leads, Like the sheriff said, you usually would kill

1004
00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:29.280
<v Speaker 3>for these kinds of leads, right, give me all the leads.

1005
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.159
<v Speaker 3>But he said, when you look at this one, it's

1006
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:33.880
<v Speaker 3>almost like we have so many with no depth to

1007
00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 3>any of them. We're not getting anywhere with this case.

1008
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.800
<v Speaker 3>It's so sad. You have a little six year old

1009
00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:42.840
<v Speaker 3>girl whose life stopped in that moment when she had

1010
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:45.639
<v Speaker 3>her whole world in front of her, and two parents

1011
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:49.480
<v Speaker 3>that are also deceased that needed help and support, And

1012
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:52.880
<v Speaker 3>so my prayer is that there would be some way

1013
00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:55.559
<v Speaker 3>to get answers or something could be discovered. But this

1014
00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:58.840
<v Speaker 3>is one of those cases that almost seems as helpless

1015
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:01.440
<v Speaker 3>as they felt at the time, right of how would

1016
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:04.519
<v Speaker 3>you get any leads at this point unless there is

1017
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:08.119
<v Speaker 3>a perpetrator and unless they speak up or tell somebody something.

1018
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:12.039
<v Speaker 3>So overall, my heart's just broken for this little girl

1019
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:14.519
<v Speaker 3>and for her parents, no matter what the situation was.

1020
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:18.960
<v Speaker 1>This is just one of those cases where the muddier

1021
00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the water, the harder it is to see clearly what

1022
00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:25.199
<v Speaker 1>actually happened. And each one of those things that actually

1023
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:29.639
<v Speaker 1>just illustrated is something that muddies the water further. So

1024
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:33.320
<v Speaker 1>in the end, we're left with all of these possibilities,

1025
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:36.280
<v Speaker 1>but we don't really have any evidence to support any

1026
00:52:36.320 --> 00:52:41.119
<v Speaker 1>of them. I don't conclusively know what happened. I would say, statistically,

1027
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.519
<v Speaker 1>given all of the information that we have, if I

1028
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:47.400
<v Speaker 1>was to venture a guess I would say the most

1029
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:52.199
<v Speaker 1>likely but scenario would be a murder suicide, and that

1030
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:55.760
<v Speaker 1>the likely perpetrator, you know, it's Ashley suggested earlier would

1031
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:59.599
<v Speaker 1>be likely share all in, But we don't know that.

1032
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:01.880
<v Speaker 1>We don't have evidence to support that either. All we

1033
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.480
<v Speaker 1>know is that there was a previous suicide attempt and

1034
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:08.239
<v Speaker 1>that clearly Sharlyn was having a mental health episode. She

1035
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:10.880
<v Speaker 1>was in a bad place with her bipolar disorder. We

1036
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.360
<v Speaker 1>don't know if they were taking medication, but there's still

1037
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:16.800
<v Speaker 1>so many unanswered questions that don't line up with that

1038
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:20.800
<v Speaker 1>as well. There's just nothing that can fully explain what

1039
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.280
<v Speaker 1>happened here, and it's so infuriating. I wish that we

1040
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:27.039
<v Speaker 1>had more information so that there would be some kind

1041
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:28.920
<v Speaker 1>of resolution for their families.

1042
00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:32.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I talked about how this was the very first

1043
00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:36.960
<v Speaker 2>disappeared episode I watched about fourteen years ago, and I

1044
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.559
<v Speaker 2>also watched it very closely to the mix Stay family

1045
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>disappearance and became pretty obsessed with both of them and

1046
00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:45.480
<v Speaker 2>cannot figure out what happened either of these families. But

1047
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:48.800
<v Speaker 2>like we mentioned, the McStay family disappearance had a conclusive

1048
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:51.519
<v Speaker 2>resolution where they found their bodies. They knew who did it,

1049
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.639
<v Speaker 2>who killed them, and what exactly happened. And then on

1050
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:56.880
<v Speaker 2>the exact same week they find the remains of the

1051
00:53:56.960 --> 00:54:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Jamison family. But it only opens up more unanswered questions.

1052
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.840
<v Speaker 2>We're no closer to solving it today than we were

1053
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:06.719
<v Speaker 2>back in two thousand and nine or twenty thirteen when

1054
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:09.079
<v Speaker 2>the remains were found. When you look at the big situation,

1055
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.440
<v Speaker 2>it would make more sense if this was a murder suicide,

1056
00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:16.440
<v Speaker 2>particularly if Cherylyn did it. That maybe Bobby was genuine

1057
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:19.000
<v Speaker 2>about going out there to purchase a plot of land,

1058
00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:21.639
<v Speaker 2>but for whatever reason, Cherylyn decided this would be a

1059
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.039
<v Speaker 2>good place to end it all. It does make more

1060
00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:26.880
<v Speaker 2>sense than a foul play scenario because, like we talked about,

1061
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:29.639
<v Speaker 2>who would know that the Jamison's were out there? What

1062
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:32.440
<v Speaker 2>motive would someone have? Like why would someone take them

1063
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:34.400
<v Speaker 2>into the woods and kill them and then leave their

1064
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:37.920
<v Speaker 2>truck behind and their dog and thirty two thousand dollars

1065
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.880
<v Speaker 2>under the seat. But like we said, the suicide scenario

1066
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:44.159
<v Speaker 2>is not one hundred percent concrete either, because there are

1067
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of unanswered questions. Why did they travel three

1068
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:50.480
<v Speaker 2>miles from the truck, would Bobby have been physically capable

1069
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.360
<v Speaker 2>of making it that far. And if they did, if

1070
00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:56.000
<v Speaker 2>it was a murder suicide, how what was the cause

1071
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:57.760
<v Speaker 2>of death? Did they use a gun? Did the gun

1072
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:01.800
<v Speaker 2>just disappear? What happened to Sharean's briefcase, There are just

1073
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:04.599
<v Speaker 2>too many holes to say out without any certainty that

1074
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:06.920
<v Speaker 2>this was the result of a murdered suicide. But no

1075
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.719
<v Speaker 2>matter which way you look at it, you have to

1076
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:13.599
<v Speaker 2>feel bad for the entire family, particularly for Madison, who

1077
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:16.000
<v Speaker 2>sounds like she had a lot of difficulties being raised

1078
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:19.119
<v Speaker 2>in this household during her very short life. And the

1079
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:21.480
<v Speaker 2>most heartbreaking thing about it is that if the family

1080
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:24.159
<v Speaker 2>did this to themselves, we may never know for certain.

1081
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:27.400
<v Speaker 2>And that's why I'm hoping that there is some additional

1082
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:29.719
<v Speaker 2>information out there, a piece of the puzzle we're missing,

1083
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.360
<v Speaker 2>to finally get some light shed on what actually happened

1084
00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:35.159
<v Speaker 2>here and possibly a resolution.

1085
00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:37.519
<v Speaker 4>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

1086
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:39.039
<v Speaker 4>about the Trailment Cold Patreon?

1087
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

1088
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.920
<v Speaker 2>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

1089
00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:49.400
<v Speaker 2>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

1090
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

1091
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:54.920
<v Speaker 2>with us. On Patreon if you join our five dollars

1092
00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:59.000
<v Speaker 2>tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in

1093
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:02.199
<v Speaker 2>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

1094
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:05.519
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

1095
00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

1096
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:11.320
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

1097
00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:15.679
<v Speaker 2>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries,

1098
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.880
<v Speaker 2>where you can download an audio file and then boot

1099
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.199
<v Speaker 2>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

1100
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:25.599
<v Speaker 2>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

1101
00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.760
<v Speaker 2>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

1102
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.199
<v Speaker 2>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

1103
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:35.079
<v Speaker 2>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

1104
00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:37.880
<v Speaker 2>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

1105
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.639
<v Speaker 2>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

1106
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.679
<v Speaker 2>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

1107
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Tier three.

1108
00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:46.199
<v Speaker 4>So I want to let you know a little bit

1109
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:49.159
<v Speaker 4>about the Jewels and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

1110
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.079
<v Speaker 4>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

1111
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:54.920
<v Speaker 4>Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,

1112
00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:57.159
<v Speaker 4>so they're not very mini, but they're just too short

1113
00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:59.800
<v Speaker 4>to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing

1114
00:56:59.800 --> 00:57:02.599
<v Speaker 4>the so we hope you'll check out those patreons will

1115
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:03.920
<v Speaker 4>link them in the show notes.

1116
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:06.360
<v Speaker 2>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

1117
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:08.840
<v Speaker 2>any chance you have to share us on social media

1118
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:11.880
<v Speaker 2>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

1119
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:15.079
<v Speaker 2>You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

1120
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:18.000
<v Speaker 2>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So

1121
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:20.719
<v Speaker 2>until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold

1122
00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:23.199
<v Speaker 2>trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.

1123
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.559
<v Speaker 1>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy