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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind, where we pursue wisdom

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<v Speaker 1>on the past between primary secondary worlds. I'm doctor Andrew Snyder,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm glad that you're here. Welcome to the one

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<v Speaker 1>hundredth episode of Mythic Mind. Not too long ago, Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>Bear reached out to me who he's been on the

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<v Speaker 1>show before. We've talked with the farmer Giles of ham

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<v Speaker 1>Me even on once or twice. Other than that, I

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<v Speaker 1>possibly in any case and again yeah, yeah, he's the

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<v Speaker 1>renowned author of Joyful Outposts, a book about the beavers

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<v Speaker 1>in Narnia, and he recently came to me and came

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<v Speaker 1>with this idea of us having this conversation about stories

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<v Speaker 1>that inspired us, especially from our youth, and happened to

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<v Speaker 1>coincide with the one hundredth episode of Mythic Mind. About

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<v Speaker 1>time to do that, and so I take you let's

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<v Speaker 1>just make it that. I mean, this has increasingly become

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<v Speaker 1>a group effort, and so I'm more than happy to

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<v Speaker 1>hand over the reins for the milestone. So Aarin, you

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<v Speaker 1>can go ahead and friend this conversation with anything else

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<v Speaker 1>that we need to know and take it wherever you

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<v Speaker 1>want to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome. Well, thanks Andrew and congrats on episode one hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>You got a really cool thing going on with mythic

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<v Speaker 2>mind and so may there be you know, one hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>more and thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I like to think so well cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. To start, I'm going to just share what I

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<v Speaker 2>put the synopsis of our discussion that I put in

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<v Speaker 2>the discords kind of just get things rolling. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I use the term personal enchantment for today's discussion And

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<v Speaker 2>the question that I asked the group was, what was

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<v Speaker 2>your fantastis that's a fairy tale by George McDonald? What

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<v Speaker 2>was your fantastes growing up? We all have stories from

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<v Speaker 2>our youth that served and enchanting our souls and helping

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<v Speaker 2>shape who we are today. What story or stories serve

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<v Speaker 2>that role for you and in what ways did it

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<v Speaker 2>shape you? And so I thought it would be a

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<v Speaker 2>topic worth discussing for a couple of reasons. So reason

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<v Speaker 2>number one, you know, we're all Christians who are involved

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<v Speaker 2>on some level in the humanities. So we have an

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<v Speaker 2>acute awareness then of the bridge between myth and truth, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and we have a very bested interest in it. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>it's even to go farther. We have acute awareness in

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<v Speaker 2>myth and reality. Lewis that cotomizes in this famous essay

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<v Speaker 2>myth becames fact. And so as these stories, these myths,

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<v Speaker 2>you can take a modern one like or the Rings,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe the Rest with the Ancient Mariner, which is one

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<v Speaker 2>of my favorites by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, or even go

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<v Speaker 2>farther back in our history and look at the ancients

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<v Speaker 2>like Homer and Virgil and Ovid, all those myths. They

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<v Speaker 2>they really serve in leading us further up and further

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<v Speaker 2>into goodness, truth and beauty, and oftentimes it it's more

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<v Speaker 2>potent and it does a better job than a mere

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<v Speaker 2>you know, propositional claim or argument could do. And bringing

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<v Speaker 2>it back to Lewis, that's that was definitely the case

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<v Speaker 2>for him. I guess he had a very logical and

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<v Speaker 2>rational mind. But what really stirred him towards the Christian

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<v Speaker 2>faith was this idea of story a myth. And there's

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<v Speaker 2>the of course, the famous walk of the Addison's walk

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<v Speaker 2>with Tolkien and Dyson where he really starts to think

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<v Speaker 2>seriously about the Christian myth and then eventually accepts it right,

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<v Speaker 2>and a big story that Lewis read growing up that

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<v Speaker 2>he then started to realize how significant it was to

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<v Speaker 2>him later on in life was Fantasties by George MacDonald

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<v Speaker 2>and later in life, so he read it first as

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<v Speaker 2>a boy, but later in life he's reflecting on the

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<v Speaker 2>book's impact on his life and he ends up calling

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<v Speaker 2>it a devotional work for him. And I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>probably a good way to set up this idea of

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<v Speaker 2>personal enchantment, is that for us, what are the stories,

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<v Speaker 2>the myths, the whatever we consumed early in our life

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<v Speaker 2>that really kind of set us up to accept this

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<v Speaker 2>Christian myth that for us we have, Like Lewis had

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<v Speaker 2>a very high reverence for McDonald, and I imagine that

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<v Speaker 2>the stories that we bring up today, we'll have a

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<v Speaker 2>high amount of reverence and respect for them, more so

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<v Speaker 2>than than other stories. So that's kind of where I'm

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<v Speaker 2>coming at with the personal enchantment thing. So are there

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<v Speaker 2>any like questions or clarifications? It's working okay well In

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<v Speaker 2>reason number two. On more on a practical level, I

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<v Speaker 2>think this could be a pretty meaningful work of legacy,

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<v Speaker 2>not just for the Mythic Mind podcast. It is that

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<v Speaker 2>for sure, but also for us as individuals. So as

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<v Speaker 2>uh men, Uh, and as husbands, fathers, as Christians? What

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<v Speaker 2>are some of the stories uh that we that they

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<v Speaker 2>affected us so much that we want to impart them

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<v Speaker 2>to our children and our children's children and and see

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<v Speaker 2>those stories continue on to shape shape young minds. And so, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>I know this was formative for me kind of thinking through. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so which stories really impacted me in my youth that

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<v Speaker 2>I would want to see you know, my my children

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<v Speaker 2>four of them?

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<v Speaker 1>Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>Which stories I want them to read? And so that's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of where I'm coming at with this. And uh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd imagine, since this is largely uh everyone in this

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<v Speaker 2>group has a love for Lewis and Tolkien, I imagine we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to I'm gonna hear Lord of the Rings or

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<v Speaker 2>Narnia once or twice in this podcast. Totally fine, Totally fine.

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<v Speaker 2>But how I want to structure this conversation, That's all right,

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<v Speaker 2>since we have we have five here, so I have

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<v Speaker 2>multiple stories that I want to bring in to the conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>But maybe I'll probably just start with one and then

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<v Speaker 2>pass it off to the person next to me, so

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<v Speaker 2>that'd be Ian, and then we'll each take a story

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<v Speaker 2>and just kind of circle back around until we hit

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<v Speaker 2>all the stories that we want to talk about, and

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<v Speaker 2>feel free to bring in personal experience, feel free to

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<v Speaker 2>bring in quotes or anything that kind of stuck out

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<v Speaker 2>to you that really resonated with you. Just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>showcase you know the importance of that story. Does that

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<v Speaker 2>make sense? Everyone's going with that? Okay, awesome, Well how

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<v Speaker 2>about maybe just set the tone. I'll start and this

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<v Speaker 2>these stories we read them as reading them later on

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<v Speaker 2>in life. It's not like the best writing just spoiler alert,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was really important for me, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>The Prideing Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander brought brought my classroom

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<v Speaker 2>copy here, particularly number two, The Black Cauldron. That one

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<v Speaker 2>was really uh profound for me. And uh so this

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<v Speaker 2>is essentially the first besides like the Magic Treehouse books,

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<v Speaker 2>It's like the first series I ever read and finished.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when I was I think I was nine.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just kind of walking through the library and

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<v Speaker 2>the book covers just astounded me. I really wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>read them just based off of the book covers, but

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<v Speaker 2>the first couple of times I checked them out from

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<v Speaker 2>the library, I just could not get through them. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just I probably was a little bit young in my reading,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I wasn't that strong of a reader. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's probably one of the reasons why I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>just fizzled out after a chapter or two. But then

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<v Speaker 2>finally I just you know, hunkered down and read them

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<v Speaker 2>and I loved them. And it's great fantasy. It's it's

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<v Speaker 2>definitely inspired by by Tolking them the US. Again, not

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<v Speaker 2>as great as Narnia or Lord of the Rings or

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<v Speaker 2>The Hobbit, but a really good story. Uh So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's my my first book. Has anyone else read it?

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<v Speaker 3>The Priday Chronicles I have, although I actually prefer the

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<v Speaker 3>west Mark books, also by Alexander Whereas Pardine is kind

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<v Speaker 3>of a mishmash of Narnia and King Arthur for kids,

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<v Speaker 3>West Mark is Lima's rob for kids.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, well I haven't read them, and but so the

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<v Speaker 4>Disney movie is loosely based on the first two of

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<v Speaker 4>those books.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, and they called it the Black Cauldron, I believe,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's based off as the second books title. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's mm.

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<v Speaker 1>So, so what about those stories? Looking obviously, as a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't always know why certain things are enchanting you

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<v Speaker 1>or inspiring you. Or capturing your imagine nation and looking back,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you think it is about these stories that

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<v Speaker 1>gripped you as a child.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it was besides like watching Star Wars

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<v Speaker 2>and watching Lord of the Rings films. It was getting

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<v Speaker 2>a sense of this small, insignificant person, this who's just

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<v Speaker 2>looking after a pig, which turned out to be a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty special pig. He gets called on an adventure. You

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<v Speaker 2>kind of could get this sense of, like the world

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<v Speaker 2>building is really good, and you see this young man

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<v Speaker 2>kind of coming of age, gaining courage, and then finally,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, finding out what his his calling, his destiny is.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I just as a young reader, I hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>really read much of that of that kind, and so

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<v Speaker 2>that's one reasons why I was pretty for me.

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<v Speaker 3>So should I jump in? Yeah, go for it in Yeah, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I actually have a stack of seven books that I

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<v Speaker 3>tried to think through. I was thinking specifically from when

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<v Speaker 3>I really started reading, around the time when I was

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<v Speaker 3>nine to about when I was eleven or twelve. A lot.

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<v Speaker 3>I hit a lot more serious books when I was

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<v Speaker 3>thirteen and fourteen. I didn't read Load of the Rings

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<v Speaker 3>until I was thirteen. So I view this as like

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<v Speaker 3>the first Layer, that first enchantment, and I did read

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<v Speaker 3>George McDonald does, specifically the Princess and the Goblin books

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<v Speaker 3>as a kid, but they didn't stick with me or

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<v Speaker 3>really foundationally change who I am in the way that

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<v Speaker 3>the books I picked dead. So the first one, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>just going to start with one. The first one is

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<v Speaker 3>The Complete Troll Clones by Arthur Conan Doyle. I actually

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<v Speaker 3>had a slightly different edition of this, but it was

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<v Speaker 3>the one that happ the original illustrations from the eighteen nineties,

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<v Speaker 3>and this book did so many things. It introduced me

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<v Speaker 3>to really the adult short story, that structure of beginning,

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<v Speaker 3>middle end, and that shorter, compressed time frame, the idea

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<v Speaker 3>of a narrator who's not the hero. Doctor Watson isn't

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<v Speaker 3>the person who resolves the problems. He's there to just

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<v Speaker 3>record what's happening, So a little more complexity than just

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<v Speaker 3>your standard first person kid book that a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>books when you're reading at that age have. But most

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<v Speaker 3>of all, what I think really enchanted me and still

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<v Speaker 3>enchants me is the idea of Sherlock Holmes as the

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<v Speaker 3>modern day Knight. He's a battler for justice, for those

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<v Speaker 3>who can't help themselves against powerful forces that want to

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<v Speaker 3>destroy them, and that idea of a huge even though,

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<v Speaker 3>of course Holmes is very flawed. You know, he's arrogant,

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<v Speaker 3>he's not very considerate towards other people. He has a

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<v Speaker 3>drug addiction, but he still strives for justice. He strives

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<v Speaker 3>to help people who need help. I think that really

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<v Speaker 3>enchanted me and continues to enchant me in a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of the things I love today and the things that

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<v Speaker 3>are important to me today.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a question, fore Ian, who is the best Sherlock

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<v Speaker 2>Holmes on screen.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeremy Brett from the nineteen eighties and early nineties. I

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<v Speaker 3>appreciate Basil Rathbone and Johnny Lee Miller from Elementary but

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<v Speaker 3>Jeremy Brett partly because he had pretty much just the

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<v Speaker 3>original stories. He wasn't working with new material. He was

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<v Speaker 3>trying to interpret the original character. But also just because

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<v Speaker 3>of the intensity of his performance. He really gives you

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<v Speaker 3>a sense of the genius bind with the passion for

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<v Speaker 3>justice that I think a lot of the other Sherlock

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<v Speaker 3>Holmes is.

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<v Speaker 1>Miss I think that's fair. I'm by no means an

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<v Speaker 1>expert on Sherlock Holmes, but it definitely seems like some

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<v Speaker 1>of the more recent takes, which I enjoy watching the

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<v Speaker 1>you know, cumber Badge or you know, Robert Downey Junior, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I think they're fun films, fun show, but it definitely

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<v Speaker 1>seems like they're almost doing a caricature of a character

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<v Speaker 1>rather than living out the character or or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing their own portrayal. That's my my amateur opinion, and.

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<v Speaker 3>I would argue that both of them are leading heavily

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<v Speaker 3>into the anti hero interpretation rather than the hero. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's room for an anti hero interpretation for Holmes.

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<v Speaker 3>But since we're talking about you know, enchantment in a

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<v Speaker 3>book that kind of brought some goodness into my brain

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<v Speaker 3>as a you know, eight nine year old boy, I

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<v Speaker 3>think that Holmes is a here. I think he teaches

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<v Speaker 3>kids to you know, observe and to do and use

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<v Speaker 3>their brains, but not just use their brains for anything.

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<v Speaker 3>He's not like becoming a super villain. He's using his

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<v Speaker 3>brains to help people. I think that's it's a message

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<v Speaker 3>that's not didactic, but it's modeled really well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's a really important point that we've

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<v Speaker 1>definitely gone through and maybe we're still in a stage

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<v Speaker 1>of anti heroes where there are very few real, genuine

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<v Speaker 1>heroes that are firmly on the side of good. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>you might get a good outcome, but have actually a

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<v Speaker 1>good heroic figure. It's kind of rare, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>people don't recognize how much they want that. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>some time ago, I've gotten to it spat with some

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<v Speaker 1>people who are trying to argue that Jackson's Fermuir is

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<v Speaker 1>somehow improved upon what Tolkien gave us, because he's such

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<v Speaker 1>a muddled character and you know, you don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>he's gonna do. It's like, no, like if you are

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<v Speaker 1>at all in tune with like what it means to

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<v Speaker 1>be human, what it is you actually want, Like you

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<v Speaker 1>want a good guy. You want that at refreshing, wholesome

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<v Speaker 1>reminder that there is goodness in this world and that's

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<v Speaker 1>worth fighting for. Yeah, but I don't want to take

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<v Speaker 1>over here, Aaron. Do you have any any follow up

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<v Speaker 1>or where do you want to go from there?

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<v Speaker 5>No?

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's great. If we're going discussing Shirlock, we

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<v Speaker 2>could go to your book Andrew.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, see this is tough. I would like to say

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<v Speaker 1>that five year old me was reading the Odyssey or

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<v Speaker 1>even Lord of the Rings. But that's just simply isn't

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<v Speaker 1>the case. I really wasn't as super active reader as

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<v Speaker 1>a kid. Now, if we're talking a young child, there

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<v Speaker 1>are certain things that come to mind. My parents did

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<v Speaker 1>do a good job of reading to me regularly when

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<v Speaker 1>I was a young child. You know, I think of this,

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<v Speaker 1>see it came up with. It's like a treasury of

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<v Speaker 1>bedtime stories, which I still have and reach my kids sometimes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a collection of fairy tales, but like the more

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<v Speaker 1>grim versions where you know, not not the kind that

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<v Speaker 1>typically are provided in children's books today, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the ones where like people die and things go wrong sometimes.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was definitely one of my favorite collections. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, as I've rediscovered reading and fantasy and fairy tales,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm continually reminded of that line, that well known line

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<v Speaker 1>from Lewis about becoming old enough to read fairy tales again,

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<v Speaker 1>because that is exactly the arc that my life has taken.

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<v Speaker 1>That as a young child, I love fairy tales. But

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<v Speaker 1>then as I got a little bit older, especially later

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<v Speaker 1>elementary school into middle aged, not middle aged, but middle grades,

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<v Speaker 1>I just really stopped reading a whole lot. It's really

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<v Speaker 1>not something I discovered again until adulthood, or at least

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<v Speaker 1>I stopped reading fiction. And so when I think about

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<v Speaker 1>what isolated times of reading I did have in my adolescence,

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<v Speaker 1>I do very fondly remember my parents reading Narnia to me.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's the Lewist that was already predicted to come up,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we read through all of the Narnia books together,

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<v Speaker 1>and I like, I would like to say that that

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<v Speaker 1>radically shaped me, but I think that the experience of

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<v Speaker 1>experiencing those stories with my parents at the time as

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<v Speaker 1>a young child, I think that was actually the most

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<v Speaker 1>enriching part of that experience of talking with them, of

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<v Speaker 1>encountering it and being read to, rather than simply reading

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<v Speaker 1>on my own. And so I think having that experiential

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<v Speaker 1>connection is actually even more important at the time than

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<v Speaker 1>the content of what I was reading. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>guess if nothing else, that's that's a big plug for

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<v Speaker 1>reading with your kids, not only for what you're reading,

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<v Speaker 1>even though that is important, but also I think that

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<v Speaker 1>just having that dynamic of encountering adventure, encountering story, encountering

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<v Speaker 1>important ideas with somebody who is equipped to lead you

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<v Speaker 1>through them because young child, I think that is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most formative things about reading in youth. Now

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<v Speaker 1>beyond that, I can get to more to this in

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<v Speaker 1>the next round. I mean, honestly, as a child, video

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<v Speaker 1>games were probably more of where I got my literary

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<v Speaker 1>fix at the time. So maybe I can circle back

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<v Speaker 1>to some of that from my next run.

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<v Speaker 2>And well just to echo that, you know, I love

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<v Speaker 2>reading Narnia as a kid. Definitely one of those top

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<v Speaker 2>stories I've enchanted me. But you know, there's only a

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<v Speaker 2>first time that you can read this story right and

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00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:35.759
<v Speaker 2>kind of experience it a whole new world for the

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00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.759
<v Speaker 2>very first time. But bringing it stories to your kids,

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<v Speaker 2>like I'm currently reading through the Narnia series with my children.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm older two. We're on the silver chair and seeing

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<v Speaker 2>Narnia through their eyes is it's not the same thing

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<v Speaker 2>as you know, me reading it personally for the first time,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's super rewarding and it's it's changed my rankings

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<v Speaker 2>quite a bit too, Like just seeing the questions that

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<v Speaker 2>my kids ask about about certain stories. I think I

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was actually a post that you you

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<v Speaker 2>made andrew your ranking Narnia books and then I comment,

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00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.559
<v Speaker 2>like the language and wardrobe is too it's too low

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00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.759
<v Speaker 2>on your rankings. Read it to your kids and then

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<v Speaker 2>tell me what the ranking is, because I imagine it's

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<v Speaker 2>just going to uh to go to the towards the top.

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<v Speaker 1>If they don't tell me that the silver Chair is

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<v Speaker 1>the best, I'm going to tell them they're wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm with you. I'm with you on that, but Lion

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<v Speaker 2>with the Wardrobe is number two. Just maybe set some controversy. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Other thoughts on I'm reading two kids, any of your

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts on that.

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<v Speaker 3>I really love the point you make about getting to

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<v Speaker 3>experience a book for the first time again when reading

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<v Speaker 3>it to a child. I really like watching people on

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<v Speaker 3>YouTube react to TV shows or movies that I really

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<v Speaker 3>like and seeing that experienced the emotions I felt the

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<v Speaker 3>first time. So I think I think we need to

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00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.519
<v Speaker 3>start reading books to kids for the first time. Channel

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<v Speaker 3>on YouTube.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I will say we have a board book

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<v Speaker 1>child's version of The Lion of Witch and the Wardrobe,

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00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.880
<v Speaker 1>which some people said, don't do that, just wait for

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<v Speaker 1>the real book. And I get the arguments, but at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, I think it's healthy for kids to

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00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.519
<v Speaker 1>be familiar with the world. I think that itself is healthy.

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<v Speaker 1>And even Lewis says that what's good about a book

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<v Speaker 1>is not the excitement of what's going to happen. What's

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<v Speaker 1>good about a book is the familiarity that you get

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<v Speaker 1>with the ideas and with what's happening. And that's where

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00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>it really deepens. And so even when I read this,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, board book, when I've read this board book

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<v Speaker 1>with my then two year olds, like they love the

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<v Speaker 1>story to the point where I get to the page

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, Aslan coming back to life, which the

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00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.079
<v Speaker 1>book doesn't even clearly specify exactly what's happening, but I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of feel that in form in my reading, and

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<v Speaker 1>they just just like get so excited, and so, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>even on their level, you know, I'm able to experience

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<v Speaker 1>some of that just enchantment with Narnia and with the

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<v Speaker 1>story and the hope and excitement that the figure of

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<v Speaker 1>Asland provides, and so I can. And at this point,

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00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.240
<v Speaker 1>like they're capable of very long stories, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it will be much longer before we just

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<v Speaker 1>get into the real thing.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I didn't read then.

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<v Speaker 4>I read the Language in the Wardrobe when I was

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<v Speaker 4>probably twelve or thirteen, but I didn't read any of

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<v Speaker 4>the other ones until my wife was pregnant with our son,

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<v Speaker 4>and I bought a complete set and read through them

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<v Speaker 4>in anticipation of them reading them with him.

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<v Speaker 6>And I remember.

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<v Speaker 4>His reaction, you know, like when Diggery rang the bell,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, he was petrified. You know, I'd love how

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<v Speaker 4>real and how much to watch a kid really get

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<v Speaker 4>into the story like that, and his concerns When he

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<v Speaker 4>was he was very much a rule follower, so anytime

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<v Speaker 4>someone was breaking the rules in a story, he was

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<v Speaker 4>not very excited about it. So it is interesting to

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<v Speaker 4>see from a child's perspective what story points hit differently

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<v Speaker 4>than they do as an adult.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think it was towards the end of reading

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<v Speaker 2>The Lion in Witch and the Wardrobe to my daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>This is after some people cracks athlun rises again and

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<v Speaker 2>then ah, my daughter Lucy, so there's a narname that

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<v Speaker 2>I get there. But she asked me Dad as like Jesus,

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00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, why do you say that? And then she

384
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<v Speaker 2>kind of just lifts off some reasons. Well, you know,

385
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.640
<v Speaker 2>he he died and he study't for Edmund and now

386
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:54.480
<v Speaker 2>he's he rose again. Like, that's interesting, but it's just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of cool to see the experiencing and kind of

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<v Speaker 2>figure it out on their own. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>the dad that just like explains everything to them. I

390
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<v Speaker 2>want them to, you know, to be maybe not as

391
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<v Speaker 2>as carefree as like a Dumbledore, where it's like, oh, yeah,

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00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:14.759
<v Speaker 2>this is my school, but you guys just whoever you

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00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.640
<v Speaker 2>want and experience it for yourself. But I want to

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00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.200
<v Speaker 2>guide them for sure. Yeah. IVE seen them kind of

395
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.119
<v Speaker 2>figure out and put the pieces together. It's really cool,

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00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 2>really special. All right, David, what's your first story?

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<v Speaker 6>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>All right, well, I yeah, I started thinking about elementary

399
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:40.240
<v Speaker 4>school and our school library. There was a book that

400
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.039
<v Speaker 4>I was always checking out and I've got it here.

401
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:47.839
<v Speaker 4>It was The Iron Giant and this is the original

402
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.000
<v Speaker 4>printing from nineteen sixty eight, which and looking it up today,

403
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:54.119
<v Speaker 4>I discovered this is worth four hundred bucks, so I'm

404
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:58.880
<v Speaker 4>going to be careful with it. But yeah, the movie

405
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.960
<v Speaker 4>in ninety nine is based on the book, but it's

406
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.039
<v Speaker 4>so different that when that movie came out, I didn't

407
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:06.440
<v Speaker 4>even realize it was supposed to be based on the book.

408
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.720
<v Speaker 4>There's a metal giant man who eats some farm equipment

409
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.799
<v Speaker 4>and can put itself back together, and there's a boy

410
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.279
<v Speaker 4>named Hogarth, and other than that, there are not really

411
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.000
<v Speaker 4>any similarities. But yeah, and the original British title was

412
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:27.440
<v Speaker 4>The Iron Man, but even in nineteen sixty eight, that

413
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.839
<v Speaker 4>comic already existed here, and so I think they call

414
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:31.920
<v Speaker 4>it The Iron Giant all over the world now because

415
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:35.599
<v Speaker 4>the other Iron Man got much more popular. But yeah,

416
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.920
<v Speaker 4>he's like a nuisance when he first shows up and

417
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.920
<v Speaker 4>they trap him, but eventually they're welcome him in the community.

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00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:49.640
<v Speaker 4>But then there's this really weird sudden turn in the

419
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:55.200
<v Speaker 4>story where astronomers see a giant monster coming through space

420
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.480
<v Speaker 4>to the Earth and it's they call it the Space

421
00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:01.640
<v Speaker 4>Bat Angel Dragon, and it just lands on Australia and

422
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.599
<v Speaker 4>demands to be fed, and the Iron Giant challenges it

423
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:11.680
<v Speaker 4>to a contest, and it's it's in five chapters. It's

424
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.480
<v Speaker 4>meant to be read to a kid over five nights,

425
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:20.279
<v Speaker 4>and Ted Hughes he's English poet laureate, and so the

426
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:24.359
<v Speaker 4>writing is very interesting. Sometimes there's a unique rhythm, lots

427
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.720
<v Speaker 4>of short sentences and sound effects written out in repetition

428
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:32.359
<v Speaker 4>and things. But I was always just fascinated largely by

429
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.480
<v Speaker 4>the illustrations like there, I think they're like etchings, and

430
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:40.920
<v Speaker 4>only this first edition has these illustrations in it. But

431
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.359
<v Speaker 4>he looks like he's made out of car parts and

432
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.079
<v Speaker 4>stuff basically, like I don't know, you can see like

433
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.240
<v Speaker 4>these kinds of strange things like that, like he's got.

434
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.720
<v Speaker 6>A car headlights for.

435
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.799
<v Speaker 4>Eyes in the radiator of a car for a nose,

436
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.519
<v Speaker 4>and stuff like that. But I did become an artist,

437
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 4>and I think books and the illustrations in them, they

438
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.960
<v Speaker 4>had a big impact on me in that way. But

439
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:10.240
<v Speaker 4>just the how far out the story is. I mean,

440
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:13.960
<v Speaker 4>it's only like fifty pages, but like this monster just

441
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:15.279
<v Speaker 4>kind of hanging on the sun.

442
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:17.000
<v Speaker 6>It really fascinated me.

443
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:22.720
<v Speaker 4>But in the beginning, he just it starts with this

444
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:26.440
<v Speaker 4>iron man seeing the ocean for the first time and

445
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.839
<v Speaker 4>then falling off a cliff and falling apart, and then

446
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:34.400
<v Speaker 4>in great detail, the first chapter describes his parts like

447
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.359
<v Speaker 4>a hand finds an eyeball and finds another hand, and

448
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.480
<v Speaker 4>they find a leg and they're just describing when all

449
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.240
<v Speaker 4>coming back together. And I remember when I was in

450
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.559
<v Speaker 4>third grade, and this would have been like nineteen eighty

451
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.960
<v Speaker 4>three or four, all the kids in school had to

452
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:56.119
<v Speaker 4>read for fifteen minutes from whatever book they picked to

453
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.799
<v Speaker 4>the principle in his office and I picked book and

454
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.400
<v Speaker 4>I read that absurd first chapter to him and he

455
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.920
<v Speaker 4>was like, well, that was very interesting, but.

456
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:12.920
<v Speaker 6>That it stuck with me. I don't know.

457
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:15.240
<v Speaker 4>I kind of forgot about it for a while, but

458
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.359
<v Speaker 4>then it came back and it really stuck with me.

459
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 4>And I found a probably twenty years ago, I found

460
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:21.559
<v Speaker 4>this copy of the book.

461
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.400
<v Speaker 6>But you know, it's.

462
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 4>Vaguely environmental and anti Cold War. I think he wrote

463
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:35.599
<v Speaker 4>it to console his children because his wife had committed suicide,

464
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:40.039
<v Speaker 4>if I remember correctly, which is kind of a sad

465
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.039
<v Speaker 4>bit of the story. But yeah, I think this book

466
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:49.480
<v Speaker 4>and other books like that really activated my imagination and

467
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 4>made me want to be a person who tried to,

468
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.039
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, create these kinds of stories and that

469
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.519
<v Speaker 4>kind of imagery specifically that was in the book I have.

470
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.559
<v Speaker 2>I have not read The Iron Giant, but I'm putting

471
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.160
<v Speaker 2>it on my list to read now. Anyone else read it?

472
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like I said, fifty pages, so it's a pretty

473
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.559
<v Speaker 4>It seemed huge. I remember when I was a kid

474
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 4>getting it in the library, thinking it was about twice

475
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:19.480
<v Speaker 4>this size. You know, but I was I was much

476
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:21.119
<v Speaker 4>smaller compared to it, I guess, but.

477
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 3>You just said it was four hundred dollars.

478
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:27.759
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, yeah, you know, And you were talking about

479
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.400
<v Speaker 4>original illustrations earlier. I don't know why they changed the illustrations, Like,

480
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, the original Narnia illustrations are the best. I

481
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:39.799
<v Speaker 4>think these originals are the best. There's even like Doctor

482
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.839
<v Speaker 4>Seuss books, sometimes they go and try to change the illustrations,

483
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:45.960
<v Speaker 4>and they were there was nothing wrong with them.

484
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 6>They're they're beautiful.

485
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:52.240
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, So for mine, I was trying to think

486
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.359
<v Speaker 5>of stuff that I read as a kid, and the

487
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:00.519
<v Speaker 5>number one series I read was definitely Red Wall. I

488
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:06.680
<v Speaker 5>know that Brian Jake's mentions them not being religious of

489
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:10.880
<v Speaker 5>any kind, but there's definitely a lot of themes throughout

490
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:18.200
<v Speaker 5>it that go well with Christianity and just also just bravery.

491
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.720
<v Speaker 5>And I always wanted to be, you know, one of

492
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.599
<v Speaker 5>those badgers that's just going through and taking out all

493
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:28.079
<v Speaker 5>the evil villains, you know. And the good thing about

494
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.839
<v Speaker 5>it is like the villains are always I mean, they're

495
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.920
<v Speaker 5>like you know when they're you're reading about it, like Okay,

496
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.559
<v Speaker 5>this rat's going to be evil or the weasel's going

497
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:40.400
<v Speaker 5>to be evil or the snake, and it's not like

498
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.839
<v Speaker 5>they're like super they weren't wrong. They're just evil and

499
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:51.519
<v Speaker 5>they're trying to punish all the like the peaceful animals.

500
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.640
<v Speaker 5>So just seeing like that courage it was great. And

501
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.119
<v Speaker 5>it's it's funny because I would always pick them out

502
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:00.680
<v Speaker 5>when I was a kid and I was going to

503
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:02.400
<v Speaker 5>read them from my class because you had to read

504
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.519
<v Speaker 5>a certain about before the end of the month, and

505
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:08.880
<v Speaker 5>I'd always procrastinate. So it ended up being my dad

506
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 5>reading the book to me, like on a Sunday, just

507
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.200
<v Speaker 5>reading like fifteen chapters and I'm just sitting there watching them.

508
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.079
<v Speaker 5>So it was always a good talk.

509
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:21.000
<v Speaker 4>I think my wife really likes those books that I

510
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:21.839
<v Speaker 4>have not read them.

511
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.640
<v Speaker 2>I was first introduced to Redwall actually through the cartoon

512
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.119
<v Speaker 2>they did. Do I watch the cartoon chase. It was

513
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 2>on PBS, remember, and I think it just detailed the

514
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:38.759
<v Speaker 2>first book with Matthias and Clooney, and I just loved it.

515
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:40.599
<v Speaker 2>It was awesome. And then for some reason the show

516
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.480
<v Speaker 2>went away, and this was before TVO. I couldn't really, like,

517
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, find it ever again until later on. But

518
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:52.440
<v Speaker 2>the first book, especially I love it's fantastic, great world building,

519
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:58.680
<v Speaker 2>just really excellent world building, tales of courage. And to

520
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:02.079
<v Speaker 2>your point, like there's he's not really playing the game

521
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:06.000
<v Speaker 2>with subjective morals or they trying to make a sympathize

522
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:12.279
<v Speaker 2>with these characters that are clearly villainous or gilling a vice.

523
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:17.480
<v Speaker 2>He's coloring within the lines in that regard instead trying

524
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:18.079
<v Speaker 2>to blur him.

525
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:20.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean, it's really it's it's cool that he

526
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:24.200
<v Speaker 5>I know that he'd mentioned writing about all the food

527
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:29.119
<v Speaker 5>because he was writing for blind kids because he had

528
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:31.400
<v Speaker 5>worked with them or something or had you had a

529
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:34.039
<v Speaker 5>place in his hard for him, and man, I always

530
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.799
<v Speaker 5>wanted to eat whatever they were eating, so it was

531
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:37.880
<v Speaker 5>it was well done.

532
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, who writes eating scenes better? Tolkien or or Brian

533
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Jacks put you on the spot.

534
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.279
<v Speaker 3>Well, I will say that Brian Jakes was on my list.

535
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.799
<v Speaker 3>So here's the one I picked A long patrol. I

536
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:58.039
<v Speaker 3>always loved the Hairs because they were such a distinct

537
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:02.920
<v Speaker 3>culture of Later I found out British military officer class.

538
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:09.680
<v Speaker 3>But I loved the sense of brotherhood and community that

539
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 3>the Red Bull books hold up as an ideal.

540
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I haven't read Law Control but I have read

541
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.119
<v Speaker 1>some my kids, like some of the Paw Patrol books.

542
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:19.799
<v Speaker 1>If that qualifies here.

543
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.119
<v Speaker 3>No, No, that's a completely different thing.

544
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we'll circle back around to me, Chase. I want

545
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:29.799
<v Speaker 2>to hear your answer, though, who writes better eating scenes.

546
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.839
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you some time to think about it though, Okay, man,

547
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:36.759
<v Speaker 2>all right, So my next one, and I think there

548
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.640
<v Speaker 2>are some other millennials here on this call, so I'm

549
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.920
<v Speaker 2>curious to get your thoughts on this, but probably this

550
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 2>is actually probably number one besides Narnia, and that's the

551
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 2>Harry Potter series. And so what I'm pulling up right

552
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:54.359
<v Speaker 2>now is the seventh book, The Deathly Hallows. This is

553
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:56.960
<v Speaker 2>actually the Canadian version as well. So the story behind

554
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 2>it is I was on vacation in Canada when the

555
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:03.240
<v Speaker 2>book came out, and I'm one of those diehard Harry

556
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Potter fans where we went to Barnes and Noble say

557
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.480
<v Speaker 2>up till Midnight, got our copy of the book, and

558
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.480
<v Speaker 2>then went home. But I couldn't do that on vacation,

559
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.160
<v Speaker 2>and so the day after it was released, we found

560
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:20.720
<v Speaker 2>this bookstore in small town, Canada and grab a copy,

561
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:25.680
<v Speaker 2>and then my vacation was Harry Potter. I essentially just read,

562
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.160
<v Speaker 2>ate and slept. That's all I did finishing it, I

563
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.119
<v Speaker 2>think like two or three days. And I just love

564
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.039
<v Speaker 2>the Harry Potter series, and it's a series that it

565
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of speaks to the power of how myth shapes

566
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:45.960
<v Speaker 2>culture because Rowling, you know, for what we know about her,

567
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't think she's a Christian, but you wouldn't know

568
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:51.720
<v Speaker 2>that if you didn't know anything of it, If you

569
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't know anything about Rolling, you was going you're judging

570
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.960
<v Speaker 2>her off of the books, you might suspect that she's

571
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 2>a Christian, especially with that definitely hollow she just goes

572
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:04.680
<v Speaker 2>full hill and there's so many different Christian elements to it,

573
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.000
<v Speaker 2>but they're also present in the previous ones as well,

574
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:14.599
<v Speaker 2>and so yeah, it was definitely a very formative book

575
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:18.719
<v Speaker 2>for me. Is still very profound for me. I love

576
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>going back through them. They're one of the series I

577
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 2>try to get to once a year, once every other

578
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.599
<v Speaker 2>year if things are busy. So, the Harry Potter series,

579
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:31.599
<v Speaker 2>what are your guys' thoughts on that? I wonder if

580
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.519
<v Speaker 2>it's a little controversial just based off of Rawling herself.

581
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, I have a couple of questions. First, of all,

582
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.440
<v Speaker 1>how long have you worshiped the devil?

583
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, I like witchcraft, man this.

584
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Kidding, Well, that'll be the tiger line.

585
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh, come on, if you're going to you know, demonizes rowling.

586
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.360
<v Speaker 2>But then at the same time pray Shakespeare, I mean,

587
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:08.280
<v Speaker 2>just stop it, just stop it. There's mh like some

588
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:11.360
<v Speaker 2>other stories that deal in witchcraft, which I mean Narnia

589
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.760
<v Speaker 2>is also one of them, guys, and so is Lord

590
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:17.440
<v Speaker 2>of the Rings to an extent, at least dealing with

591
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.719
<v Speaker 2>dark magic. She is an nothing that really still colors

592
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>within the right lines. Uh, there's a sense of a

593
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.840
<v Speaker 2>good and evil objective, good and evil. It's it's not

594
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:32.119
<v Speaker 2>she's not playing a game with it, even though she's

595
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:35.880
<v Speaker 2>writing in the modern age. And so you can see

596
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.119
<v Speaker 2>the influence that that Lewis Tolkien in going back farther,

597
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.440
<v Speaker 2>she there's a lot of callbacks the Greco Roman mythology.

598
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:50.800
<v Speaker 2>She's influenced by a lot of the right stories this

599
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:55.360
<v Speaker 2>and like the the series succeeds I think in part

600
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.159
<v Speaker 2>because of those Christian elements that are present once that

601
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:03.840
<v Speaker 2>she's probably aware of, and also some other ones that

602
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 2>she may even realized. You say, you have a second

603
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:12.719
<v Speaker 2>question for me, Yeah, I'm a devil worship for where

604
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I established that.

605
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:18.119
<v Speaker 1>The second one, yeah, I actually completely forgot that as

606
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:21.880
<v Speaker 1>a kid that i'd read the first four and a

607
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:26.039
<v Speaker 1>half Harry Potter books. I don't really know why, for

608
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, I dropped off during the Order of the Phoenix,

609
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:32.440
<v Speaker 1>But those were actually.

610
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:36.360
<v Speaker 3>The first what's that because they got worse?

611
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, I haven't read the messin adults, so I can't

612
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 1>really give any firm criticism of them, since I really

613
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:46.280
<v Speaker 1>discovered what literature is about. But those were actually the

614
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:48.159
<v Speaker 1>first long books that I read as a kid, so

615
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:50.559
<v Speaker 1>that that should have probably been mentioned my first go around.

616
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.840
<v Speaker 1>That I think there is something very enchanting about them,

617
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.800
<v Speaker 1>and I think that the firm lines between good and

618
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.239
<v Speaker 1>evil is an important part of that. For me, that's

619
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.000
<v Speaker 1>almost required for genuine enchantment, because it's reality, like there

620
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:05.519
<v Speaker 1>is such a thing as the good and there is

621
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.159
<v Speaker 1>such a thing as the opposite of that, and for honest, we,

622
00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:11.519
<v Speaker 1>even as children, let alone as adults, like we know

623
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:15.119
<v Speaker 1>that's the case. And so when that starts to get

624
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:18.159
<v Speaker 1>blurred and everything just becomes an amorphous gray blob, it

625
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really resonate with us the same way, or at

626
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.519
<v Speaker 1>least it requires layers of propaganda for it to resonate,

627
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.239
<v Speaker 1>and then it's not really resonating with us. And so

628
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I think to really provide the kind of enchantment that

629
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.599
<v Speaker 1>helps us to become more grounded in reality, you need

630
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:34.199
<v Speaker 1>those lines of good and evil. And I agree that's

631
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.320
<v Speaker 1>definitely there in Harry Potter. But my follow up, my

632
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:39.639
<v Speaker 1>actual question here is we said that there are a

633
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:44.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of Christian themes in Harry Potter, Like you don't

634
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.000
<v Speaker 1>have to give a you know, full analysis, We don't

635
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:48.880
<v Speaker 1>spend the rest of the night doing that. But like,

636
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:50.800
<v Speaker 1>what do you mean by that? What are some some

637
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:53.760
<v Speaker 1>of the broad Christian connections here?

638
00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:00.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, So let's just take nothing alos for

639
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.679
<v Speaker 2>for instance, like there's there's a scene where Harry has

640
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.280
<v Speaker 2>to go into the water to grab this a certain item.

641
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:13.679
<v Speaker 2>I think I want to spoil it, but there there's

642
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.800
<v Speaker 2>an element of baptism in that that that's that's that's

643
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:18.960
<v Speaker 2>pretty clear, and he's pulled out the water. He saved

644
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.119
<v Speaker 2>by by someone else. There's a guy who I was

645
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:24.719
<v Speaker 2>just reading. He called him Ron the Baptist, which I

646
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:31.039
<v Speaker 2>thought was pretty funny. Harry essentially dying becoming death, to

647
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:34.719
<v Speaker 2>rise again, to conquer the dark Lord h for good.

648
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's kind of all over the place.

649
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.880
<v Speaker 2>It's really hard to if you're, you know, reading through it,

650
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:43.760
<v Speaker 2>especially as an adult, you're like, oh wow, there's there's

651
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:46.960
<v Speaker 2>quite a bit here. Touch on that. But Ian has

652
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.920
<v Speaker 2>some disagreements. I can sense, So Ian, let's hear it. Man.

653
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:56.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, So I lived with a family after grad school

654
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:59.639
<v Speaker 3>for about four years where what are my close friends

655
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:02.360
<v Speaker 3>in the face family was a huge Harry Potter fan,

656
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.760
<v Speaker 3>and I have never been a Harry Potter fan. I

657
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.159
<v Speaker 3>actually didn't read Harry Potter until the last book came

658
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.039
<v Speaker 3>out and I was in college. I was about twenty

659
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.239
<v Speaker 3>one when I read all seven books. So definitely wouldn't

660
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:15.920
<v Speaker 3>be a candidate for enchantment, even if I liked them.

661
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:19.039
<v Speaker 3>So what I'm about to say I wanted to say.

662
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:24.639
<v Speaker 3>I think there is certainly an enchanted and Christian appreciation

663
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:29.280
<v Speaker 3>you can have for the Harry Potter books. But when

664
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:32.440
<v Speaker 3>I look at the impact the Harry Potter books, and

665
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:36.559
<v Speaker 3>this is completely divorced from Welling herself. When I look

666
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:39.000
<v Speaker 3>at how people read the books, and I'm kind of

667
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:43.719
<v Speaker 3>influenced here by CEUs Lewis's experiment in criticism criticism, what

668
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:49.400
<v Speaker 3>I see most dominant in the behavior of self proclaimed

669
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Harry Potter fans is a tribalism. It's most easily seen

670
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.320
<v Speaker 3>in the the house system. You know, the Gryffindors are

671
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 3>clearly the good guys, the Slytherins are clearly the bad guys,

672
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:07.840
<v Speaker 3>the Hufflepuffs are clearly the servant class, and the raven

673
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:15.039
<v Speaker 3>Claus are clearly the nerds. And as the books attempt

674
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:19.880
<v Speaker 3>to tackle more difficult subjects like racism and a clear

675
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:28.920
<v Speaker 3>Nazi analog with Voldemort, I see people applying Voldemort's pretty

676
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:33.679
<v Speaker 3>much motiveless evil. He's just kind of born evil. He

677
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:40.440
<v Speaker 3>doesn't have an ideology other than might makes right, and

678
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:43.719
<v Speaker 3>he uses racism to kind of motivate some of his followers,

679
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.800
<v Speaker 3>but there's no indication that he has any real racial

680
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.559
<v Speaker 3>animis outside of everyone who's not Voldemort is less than me.

681
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:54.480
<v Speaker 3>And I think the way people use Harry Potter to

682
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:57.400
<v Speaker 3>see the world, whether you're on the right and you say, oh,

683
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:01.519
<v Speaker 3>Biden and his people, they're all like, you know, umbrage,

684
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:05.239
<v Speaker 3>like school marms trying to police our speech, or if

685
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:06.960
<v Speaker 3>you're on the left, and you're like, oh, Trump and

686
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.519
<v Speaker 3>all his you know, jack booted thugs are like Voldemort

687
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:13.519
<v Speaker 3>and his death eaters. I think that's an extremely unhealthy

688
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:18.760
<v Speaker 3>and unhelpful way to apply literature to your everyday life,

689
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.480
<v Speaker 3>because whether you agree with Biden or Trump, or Republicans

690
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:27.039
<v Speaker 3>or Democrats or whatever your political context is, there's way

691
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.920
<v Speaker 3>more complexity in those situations than with Voldemort versus Harry Potter.

692
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:38.719
<v Speaker 3>Voldemort's not a real character. He's a symbol that has

693
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 3>resonance with historical things. So there's a semblance of politics there,

694
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:48.119
<v Speaker 3>but it's not it's not something that helpfully maps onto

695
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:52.800
<v Speaker 3>today's situations. And so I really struggle with Harry Potter

696
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:55.800
<v Speaker 3>having a positive effect on the population because I see

697
00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:58.079
<v Speaker 3>so much negative impact in that.

698
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Would you say that as a la and that I'm sorry,

699
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I know he cut you off. That's got to this

700
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>one follow up. Would you say that as a villain,

701
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 1>that Voldemort is substantially different than say Suran.

702
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, although if you haven't read you know it so Mellion,

703
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:20.480
<v Speaker 3>you won't have as full understanding of Sauran. But I

704
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:24.400
<v Speaker 3>think Surin makes a lot more sense as a more

705
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.760
<v Speaker 3>medieval king whose primary goal is power.

706
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:33.239
<v Speaker 5>I would disagree with you for most of the points.

707
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:36.440
<v Speaker 5>I think that could be said for like the fandom

708
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:40.039
<v Speaker 5>of pretty much any of the popular things, like I've

709
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:44.039
<v Speaker 5>seen all those like looking through like Jedi and Sith

710
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:48.519
<v Speaker 5>is like you're I mean, everyone uses it, right if

711
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.239
<v Speaker 5>you're like a fan on one side, like mant Trump

712
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:54.760
<v Speaker 5>is just Sith board Empire, he just you know, fascist

713
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 5>or whatever. You know, you could you can apply that.

714
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:02.719
<v Speaker 5>And in terms of I wouldn't even say like Voldemorre's

715
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:08.159
<v Speaker 5>really like Saurron or anything. I think in Half Blood Prince,

716
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:12.239
<v Speaker 5>like he's kind of an abandoned kid by his family

717
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:15.639
<v Speaker 5>and that leads him to like turning against it.

718
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:16.360
<v Speaker 6>I wouldn't.

719
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:20.119
<v Speaker 5>I know, people make like the you know, like it's

720
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.159
<v Speaker 5>a like there's a lot of racism in it, but

721
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:24.880
<v Speaker 5>I would even see it more like kind of like

722
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.079
<v Speaker 5>classism if you're going to make that argument, because you know,

723
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:31.480
<v Speaker 5>it's it's somebody that doesn't have, you know, like the

724
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.639
<v Speaker 5>wealthier people or like the Weasleys are looked down upon

725
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:38.280
<v Speaker 5>because they're closer to like like Muggles or something like that.

726
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:42.440
<v Speaker 5>So I mean, I think I say this bias because

727
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.840
<v Speaker 5>I did grow up with Harry Potter, and just like Aaron,

728
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.360
<v Speaker 5>I remember coming back on a like coming back from

729
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.559
<v Speaker 5>a trip and calling my dad and I ended up

730
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:54.400
<v Speaker 5>picking it up in the airports, like I read it

731
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:56.239
<v Speaker 5>on the plane back, you know, and so we were

732
00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:59.559
<v Speaker 5>both reading it. But I think there is good there.

733
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:03.199
<v Speaker 5>I think people definitely do misuse it, being fans, for.

734
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Sure, And I do want to emphasize, and this is

735
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:10.079
<v Speaker 3>why I had such a rambling prologue. I lived with

736
00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:12.440
<v Speaker 3>someone who I still love very deeply as a friend,

737
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.760
<v Speaker 3>who I think does read Harry Potter in a Christian way,

738
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.119
<v Speaker 3>in a way that encourages them to be kinder to

739
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 3>people and live out the Christian life. So I do

740
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:24.280
<v Speaker 3>think it's very possible to read them like I just

741
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:26.440
<v Speaker 3>look at its impact on the wider world, and I

742
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 3>don't see that positive impact in the way I see

743
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.199
<v Speaker 3>it for Narnia and for even Star Wars.

744
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Now, for those of you who are the Harry Potter

745
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:41.800
<v Speaker 1>apologists here, you know, I very much segment out my

746
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:44.639
<v Speaker 1>relationship with literature from kind of before and after my

747
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:48.519
<v Speaker 1>relatively recent literary renaissance of like a few years ago.

748
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Really it's where just so much my life changes. I

749
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:58.079
<v Speaker 1>just discovered books. Do you would you recommend that, you know, adults,

750
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:00.519
<v Speaker 1>Like if I pick up Harry pot and try to

751
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.679
<v Speaker 1>give it a read again, like without having like a

752
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.559
<v Speaker 1>life changing experience with it as a kid, Like am

753
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:09.119
<v Speaker 1>I going to enjoy it? Am I going to read

754
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.039
<v Speaker 1>it as great literature? Or is it going to read

755
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:13.280
<v Speaker 1>like a kid's book? Like? How does it read? Do

756
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:14.599
<v Speaker 1>you think for an adult.

757
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:17.760
<v Speaker 2>The writing does hold up? I would say it definitely

758
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.519
<v Speaker 2>isn't on the level of talking. I one a second,

759
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:27.719
<v Speaker 2>the writing is okay, it's it's definitely not on the

760
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:29.719
<v Speaker 2>level of talking the most. But the world building, especially

761
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:34.199
<v Speaker 2>the character building. There's so many good elements to to

762
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:39.079
<v Speaker 2>to Harry Potter. Uh so, yeah, I'm with Chase on that,

763
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:44.480
<v Speaker 2>and also just kind of echo to the misuse of

764
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a story of a fandom shouldn't apply to the work itself.

765
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:53.239
<v Speaker 2>How how the phantom treats it. I don't think that's

766
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:58.920
<v Speaker 2>necessarily fair either. I think my favorite example in the

767
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:03.880
<v Speaker 2>past year was is there are some MSMB what what's

768
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:04.280
<v Speaker 2>your name?

769
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

770
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Joy read? She had this post where I think it

771
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:09.960
<v Speaker 2>was during the time where like Trump was talking about

772
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.280
<v Speaker 2>like how he wants like a third term and they're

773
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.360
<v Speaker 2>like always gonna be king or something, and so she

774
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 2>like quotes bora mirror. He's like, well, gon Door has

775
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:23.199
<v Speaker 2>no king. Gon Door needs no king. And it's the

776
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:25.840
<v Speaker 2>same character who's just like, moments later in the stories

777
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:29.880
<v Speaker 2>is like my king Eric gone. It's just like this

778
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:33.000
<v Speaker 2>is this is stupid. So, I mean the point is,

779
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:36.239
<v Speaker 2>like everyone, you can't judge a work based off of

780
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:42.400
<v Speaker 2>how the fandom treats it. And what was the third point?

781
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:44.360
<v Speaker 2>I had a third point, but I think I think

782
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:47.199
<v Speaker 2>I lost it because I was laughing at joy read Sorry.

783
00:46:48.679 --> 00:46:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Someone else responds no.

784
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:52.639
<v Speaker 1>So we don't need to get into this now. But

785
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:54.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, right now a lot of the Harry Potter

786
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.360
<v Speaker 1>fan base is and too keen on Harry Potter anymore.

787
00:46:57.400 --> 00:46:58.760
<v Speaker 1>But I guess we don't need to get into the

788
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:00.400
<v Speaker 1>current events.

789
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:06.599
<v Speaker 3>Well, when I say I do think that saying ex

790
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:10.840
<v Speaker 3>political parties voldemornt would be a misapplication, I think I

791
00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:16.199
<v Speaker 3>would still say that it would be fair to say

792
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:20.880
<v Speaker 3>that Harry Potter at the very least falls into an

793
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:27.840
<v Speaker 3>unhealthy tribalism. And it's not just fandom misinterpretation or misapplication.

794
00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:31.519
<v Speaker 3>I think that the way the house system is constructed

795
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:38.039
<v Speaker 3>is far too easily good, lesser, lesser evil, and that's

796
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:44.400
<v Speaker 3>not how human organizations work, particularly the way that Rolling

797
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.480
<v Speaker 3>writes to Zen. I understand that Rolling has attempted to say, oh,

798
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:51.840
<v Speaker 3>there's good Slytherins. Being Slytherin isn't necessarily bad. But there

799
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:56.800
<v Speaker 3>is not a single Slytherin who demonstrates real courage and

800
00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:02.079
<v Speaker 3>real virtue at the end of the day. Except maybe

801
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 3>you can argue system malfoy, but that's a reach in

802
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:06.280
<v Speaker 3>my opinion.

803
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.760
<v Speaker 2>That's the other point. Oh, sorry's chase you gumming.

804
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.559
<v Speaker 5>I was just gonna say I can get what you're

805
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 5>saying in terms of like sorting into the different houses is.

806
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:19.480
<v Speaker 6>Like a hard pill to swallow.

807
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:22.480
<v Speaker 5>But I also would argue that they're counter to what

808
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:25.639
<v Speaker 5>our society says, like not everyone's going to be president,

809
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:28.960
<v Speaker 5>not everyone could be present. I couldn't be president, you know,

810
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:32.880
<v Speaker 5>like everyone has their certain abilities that are you know,

811
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:39.000
<v Speaker 5>their personality type made line and I think more modern

812
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:42.000
<v Speaker 5>thought it is just anyone could be anything, and I

813
00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:45.639
<v Speaker 5>think that's caused some trouble. I think by her making

814
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:49.719
<v Speaker 5>Slytherin like the evil house. Let's say it's also because

815
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:54.000
<v Speaker 5>they're like people that you would need a slytherin for

816
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:56.599
<v Speaker 5>a certain task, right, you would need someone that's cunning

817
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:58.920
<v Speaker 5>in a different maybe a business deal. Like they're not

818
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:00.880
<v Speaker 5>going to cheat somebody, but but they're looking at like

819
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.800
<v Speaker 5>all the ways to do certain things, and so just

820
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:07.440
<v Speaker 5>saying that someone could use that for evil is definitely

821
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:09.199
<v Speaker 5>I mean, like, I don't know, I think those are

822
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:11.880
<v Speaker 5>personality types and stuff like that.

823
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.840
<v Speaker 4>So remember we're talking about books that enchanted us as children, right,

824
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:20.519
<v Speaker 4>so it doesn't matter if Ian wasn't enchanted by it.

825
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.920
<v Speaker 4>I you know, I'm tired of always having to point

826
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:25.480
<v Speaker 4>out that I'm the old man here. But I was

827
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:28.000
<v Speaker 4>twenty three when the first Harry Potter book came out, so.

828
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:29.039
<v Speaker 6>I haven't read them at all.

829
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:33.320
<v Speaker 4>My wife is a much more avid reader than I am,

830
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:38.079
<v Speaker 4>Like she just she just reads through books at rapid speed.

831
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:42.519
<v Speaker 4>So I bought her a British complete set of the

832
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:45.400
<v Speaker 4>books so that it like didn't have the localizations, you know,

833
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:48.280
<v Speaker 4>it says trainers instead of tennis shoes and stuff like that,

834
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:51.639
<v Speaker 4>just so that she'd have the original text for fun.

835
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:53.719
<v Speaker 4>And she really enjoyed the books. But yeah, my only

836
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:57.599
<v Speaker 4>experience is the movies, most of which I've only seen once.

837
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:01.719
<v Speaker 6>I really liked the earlier like the first one.

838
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.480
<v Speaker 4>The first story in series like this are always my

839
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:11.519
<v Speaker 4>favorite because I love being brought into this new world

840
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.599
<v Speaker 4>with the character who's also being brought into this world,

841
00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:19.519
<v Speaker 4>and I always find that fascinating and seeing how they

842
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.719
<v Speaker 4>seeing it through their eyes is interesting to me. And

843
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:26.519
<v Speaker 4>then later on, I'm just like, what kind of parent

844
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:28.960
<v Speaker 4>would allow their kids to go to this school where

845
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:31.280
<v Speaker 4>they are in constant peril all the time.

846
00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:33.559
<v Speaker 6>But I do enjoy the stories.

847
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:36.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, maybe a final thing I'll say on it,

848
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:37.800
<v Speaker 2>then we can move on to your next book. Ina

849
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.800
<v Speaker 2>is just trying to truncate it into a historical time period.

850
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.280
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a disservice to the text. Sure, you

851
00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:49.519
<v Speaker 2>can draw some parallels to World World War two and

852
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.320
<v Speaker 2>the Nazi Party, but I think one of the things.

853
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the reasons why we'll still be

854
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:59.360
<v Speaker 2>reading Harry Potter forty fifty years from now is because

855
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.400
<v Speaker 2>it has some of those timeless truths in there, and

856
00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:05.239
<v Speaker 2>she does a better job of it than a lot

857
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:08.079
<v Speaker 2>of other stories that you read nowadays. And I think

858
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.920
<v Speaker 2>that's because she was influenced by a lot of the

859
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:13.440
<v Speaker 2>right stuff. Feel free to respond to that, but then

860
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.519
<v Speaker 2>you can move on to your next next book.

861
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:23.239
<v Speaker 3>Then, no, I appreciate you've humored me. I hope I

862
00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:27.639
<v Speaker 3>didn't come across as too negative. I mean, I do

863
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:30.159
<v Speaker 3>have a negative view of the books, but I hope

864
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:33.480
<v Speaker 3>it was taking in good spirit. I feel like you've

865
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:37.920
<v Speaker 3>heard what I had to say. So my next book

866
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:44.280
<v Speaker 3>is Star Wars x Wing Work Squadron. And I'm a

867
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 3>big science fiction and military fiction fan, and the x

868
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:51.079
<v Speaker 3>Wing books were the first books that I ever read

869
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:54.320
<v Speaker 3>in that genre, and so well, a lot of people

870
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 3>might point to a book like Enders Game or Starship Troopers,

871
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:00.920
<v Speaker 3>both of which I love, but I didn't come to

872
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:03.960
<v Speaker 3>those until I was in my teens. And so again,

873
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.320
<v Speaker 3>this is the first layer, the first book that really

874
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:10.800
<v Speaker 3>enchanted my brain with things. And so the things that

875
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:17.440
<v Speaker 3>really enchanted me about the X Wing series is the

876
00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:19.559
<v Speaker 3>sort of what I talked about with the long patrol

877
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:22.960
<v Speaker 3>of the band of brothers, the sense of duty and honor.

878
00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:27.199
<v Speaker 3>But in Star Wars, these were books that were written

879
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.360
<v Speaker 3>for adults, whereas Redwall was written for kids, and so

880
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:34.280
<v Speaker 3>I was exposed to ideas of you know, political machinations

881
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:39.280
<v Speaker 3>on both the good and the evil side. The idea

882
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:43.639
<v Speaker 3>that not all enemies you face are you know, slavering

883
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:47.239
<v Speaker 3>evil people like Emperor Palpatine, but some of the bad

884
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:50.960
<v Speaker 3>guys actually have motivations and fears and can be sympathetic.

885
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:54.639
<v Speaker 3>And that I think expanded me and enchanted me in

886
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:59.679
<v Speaker 3>ways that I think are really helpful today in our

887
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.559
<v Speaker 3>very tribalized political and religious times. I think being able

888
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:07.400
<v Speaker 3>to look at your opponent's point of view and seeing

889
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:10.239
<v Speaker 3>you might have a point, or even if I disagree

890
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.920
<v Speaker 3>with that point, I understand how you came to that.

891
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:15.000
<v Speaker 3>And I think that the X Wing books really force

892
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:20.519
<v Speaker 3>you to look at the world in these different ways,

893
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:25.760
<v Speaker 3>because that's the way most battles are, even in Star Wars,

894
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:29.800
<v Speaker 3>where it is good versus evil. When a strong writer

895
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:33.519
<v Speaker 3>like Michael Stackpole or Aaron Alston takes on that conflict,

896
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:36.800
<v Speaker 3>they're able to give depth to both sides and give

897
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:40.880
<v Speaker 3>complexity that you can say, I believe I'm fighting for

898
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.119
<v Speaker 3>the right side, but there are still rules in combat.

899
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.360
<v Speaker 3>Just because I think the other side is fighting for,

900
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:49.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, an evil thing, doesn't mean there are no rules.

901
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:54.559
<v Speaker 3>I should just slaughter everyone on that side. So warfare

902
00:53:54.639 --> 00:54:00.280
<v Speaker 3>with integrity, warriors with honor. Those are the things that

903
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:02.079
<v Speaker 3>enchanted be about the X Wing series.

904
00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:06.679
<v Speaker 2>I would say, now, is this series? Is this canon?

905
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:07.440
<v Speaker 3>Or is?

906
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:11.199
<v Speaker 2>Disney said no, I actually I'm not familiar with a

907
00:54:11.239 --> 00:54:13.199
<v Speaker 2>lot of the story literature posts.

908
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:15.960
<v Speaker 3>I read them when I was you know, ten and eleven.

909
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:19.199
<v Speaker 3>This was in the nineties. It's definitely from the old

910
00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Star Wars the Good Star Wars.

911
00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:24.519
<v Speaker 2>Shall we say, well, I think there are some thoughts

912
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.559
<v Speaker 2>on on the X Wing series. By all means, go

913
00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:29.480
<v Speaker 2>for it. But if not, then it's you're up. Andrew.

914
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:33.159
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think for me to be most productive, to

915
00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:37.519
<v Speaker 1>jump ahead a few years from say, early childhood. When

916
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:40.920
<v Speaker 1>I think about the books that have most enchanted me,

917
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:44.760
<v Speaker 1>I feel like the first book that really got me,

918
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:48.039
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I opened me up. I think to

919
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:53.800
<v Speaker 1>just reality on a deeper level, I gotta go shift

920
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:58.360
<v Speaker 1>gears a little bit Augustin's Confessions. First read it in

921
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, ish twenties, early in mid twenties something

922
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:08.719
<v Speaker 1>like that, and it just resonated with me in a

923
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:13.000
<v Speaker 1>deep way. At that point, I had just finished my

924
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:19.159
<v Speaker 1>bachelor's degree in philosophy, and so I was obviously interested

925
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.239
<v Speaker 1>in ideas and asking some of these questions, but I

926
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.480
<v Speaker 1>didn't really like I was a Christian, So I had

927
00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:27.199
<v Speaker 1>some of the answers, but not early on a deep level.

928
00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:32.719
<v Speaker 1>And something about reading Augustine's confessions, reading his philosophical his

929
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:38.199
<v Speaker 1>existential wanderings, his restlessness in pursuit of real substantial wisdom

930
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:40.679
<v Speaker 1>like that just resonated with me. I never read anything

931
00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:43.760
<v Speaker 1>like this, someone who has such a deep understanding of

932
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.840
<v Speaker 1>himself and his own motivations as well as a desire

933
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:50.480
<v Speaker 1>for the truth and the way that he had delved

934
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:56.519
<v Speaker 1>into his own psyche. It just helped me to see

935
00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:58.559
<v Speaker 1>the world with the kind of wonder that he sees

936
00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:02.159
<v Speaker 1>the world. With you, this is kind of a mean

937
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:05.639
<v Speaker 1>level analysis, but you know, Augusta will be going off on,

938
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:07.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, some element of his biography and then just

939
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:10.320
<v Speaker 1>like ask the question like what is time? And then

940
00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:12.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, go off on that tangent, and you know

941
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:15.199
<v Speaker 1>that very much resonates with the way that I kind

942
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.000
<v Speaker 1>of think and the way that I feel. And so

943
00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:20.960
<v Speaker 1>even though this is very much it's nonfiction, it's the

944
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:24.679
<v Speaker 1>first narrative I think deeply gripped me and caused me

945
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:27.039
<v Speaker 1>to see the world in a different way, which is

946
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:29.960
<v Speaker 1>largely what we mean by enchantment. And so it was

947
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:32.639
<v Speaker 1>from here when I took a class at the beginning

948
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of my master's degree where we read just about all

949
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:37.800
<v Speaker 1>of Augustin's major works. She read The Confession City of God,

950
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:41.800
<v Speaker 1>on Christian Doctrine, on the Trinity, Antiplagian writings, and through

951
00:56:41.800 --> 00:56:44.840
<v Speaker 1>both his biographical insights as well as his broader philosophy,

952
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.679
<v Speaker 1>so much of it it just built on this idea

953
00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:50.760
<v Speaker 1>of wonder and desire, and so I think that really

954
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:53.559
<v Speaker 1>laid the groundwork for all of my reading role that's

955
00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:58.559
<v Speaker 1>followed from Carecguard, who became essential to my doctoral work,

956
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.280
<v Speaker 1>which continues to lovely scene august Indian themes that drew

957
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:03.880
<v Speaker 1>me to him to begin with, And then from careke Guard,

958
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:06.960
<v Speaker 1>I was able to enter into fiction in a new

959
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:09.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of way, in a new more existential kind of way.

960
00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:12.800
<v Speaker 1>And that's actually what led me back to discovering the

961
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:15.960
<v Speaker 1>significance in fairy tales and entering into myths, and that's

962
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:19.599
<v Speaker 1>what led to Tolkien and then from there basically the

963
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:23.639
<v Speaker 1>entire history of the Western canon. And so for me.

964
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.480
<v Speaker 1>When I think of the books that really enchanted me,

965
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:28.440
<v Speaker 1>I have to go to early adult years, specifically with

966
00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:32.119
<v Speaker 1>The Confessions. This copy, this Penguin copy in particular. Although

967
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:35.800
<v Speaker 1>since then some of our listeners will know the Sun

968
00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.960
<v Speaker 1>guys told me I was reading the wrong edition. So

969
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:40.480
<v Speaker 1>now I read the sheet translation, which is much better,

970
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:42.639
<v Speaker 1>and that's what we're using for our book club on

971
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:44.079
<v Speaker 1>some of the other episodes.

972
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.639
<v Speaker 2>How far are you guys in your book study?

973
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:50.280
<v Speaker 1>I think we just finished book six, Is that right, Chase?

974
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:54.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's been a year since I read The Confessions.

975
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:57.119
<v Speaker 2>I'd love to return to it at some point.

976
00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:02.519
<v Speaker 3>It's so fascinating to me how relevant Augustine remains. Maybe

977
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:05.320
<v Speaker 3>it's because you know, we're kind of in a similar

978
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:11.719
<v Speaker 3>stage of society as late Roman Empire, Late American whatever

979
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:15.920
<v Speaker 3>we are. But you know, things like the obsession with

980
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:20.760
<v Speaker 3>the Gladiators and how people would be really drawn to

981
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:23.360
<v Speaker 3>those things even though they knew it was bad for them.

982
00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:28.280
<v Speaker 3>I think there's plenty of spectacles that we in America,

983
00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:32.440
<v Speaker 3>not just violence or fictional violence, but you know, political

984
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:39.199
<v Speaker 3>violence and viewing warfare's entertainment across the globe. I think

985
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:43.039
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot we can learn from Augustine all through

986
00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:43.679
<v Speaker 3>his wisdom.

987
00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I definitely think his deep insights into really desire, Right,

988
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.760
<v Speaker 1>this comes down to what you're talking about, Like, all

989
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:55.519
<v Speaker 1>that we do is driven by desire for something, and

990
00:58:55.599 --> 00:58:58.239
<v Speaker 1>ultimately we all have this innate desire for the good.

991
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:01.800
<v Speaker 1>But the problem is we watch our on two lesser goods,

992
00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:04.239
<v Speaker 1>and so it's as Lewis says, that it's not that

993
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:06.599
<v Speaker 1>our desires are too strong, it's that they're not strong enough.

994
00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:12.000
<v Speaker 1>And I think that Augustine, in the Confessions particular as

995
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:14.480
<v Speaker 1>well as elsewhere, that he does such a good job

996
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:18.159
<v Speaker 1>of capturing that essential human characteristic that you know, while

997
00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:20.599
<v Speaker 1>Aristotle would say that we are first and foremost the

998
00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:24.599
<v Speaker 1>rational animal, I think that Augustine would say that, I mean,

999
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:26.519
<v Speaker 1>if we're going to frame in those terms that were

1000
00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:29.360
<v Speaker 1>the desiring animal. He takes a much more platonic kind

1001
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:32.280
<v Speaker 1>of approach. And obviously he has a lot of debt

1002
00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:36.559
<v Speaker 1>to Plato, and he, just more than anyone else, is

1003
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:39.320
<v Speaker 1>such an incredible job of baptizing what's good in Plato

1004
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:43.639
<v Speaker 1>and bringing that into a explicitly Christian context. And there

1005
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:46.760
<v Speaker 1>are there are a few figures that both sides of

1006
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:50.360
<v Speaker 1>the Reformation would vehemently rely upon.

1007
00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:54.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, if we're if we're going to go into college years.

1008
00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:57.480
<v Speaker 4>I was going to talk about how, you know, every

1009
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.920
<v Speaker 4>time I had to write a book report when I

1010
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:01.639
<v Speaker 4>I was in junior high and high school, and they

1011
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:03.360
<v Speaker 4>would give us a list of books, you know, that

1012
01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:06.199
<v Speaker 4>we could pick from. If there was a Robert Heinlein book,

1013
01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:08.719
<v Speaker 4>I always picked it. So I read like Stranger in

1014
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:12.440
<v Speaker 4>a Strange Land and Door into Summer and Starship Troopers

1015
01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:16.920
<v Speaker 4>and books like that, which I really enjoyed as strange

1016
01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:19.280
<v Speaker 4>and definitely not Christian, as a.

1017
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:22.800
<v Speaker 6>Lot of his writings were there.

1018
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:26.960
<v Speaker 4>It was an interesting rite and very detailed. It got

1019
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:30.159
<v Speaker 4>me into the hard sci fi kind of stuff. But

1020
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:37.800
<v Speaker 4>when I was probably about twenty in college, I had

1021
01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:43.119
<v Speaker 4>a bit of a crisis of faith where I'd been

1022
01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:45.840
<v Speaker 4>so firm and you know, if anybody could ever tell

1023
01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:50.320
<v Speaker 4>me that anything in the Bible was not true, then

1024
01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:53.119
<v Speaker 4>I would I would throw the whole thing out.

1025
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:54.719
<v Speaker 6>You know. I was just so sure like.

1026
01:00:56.239 --> 01:01:00.360
<v Speaker 4>In my belief, but my belief was not deep as

1027
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:04.199
<v Speaker 4>I thought it was as a late teenager. And then

1028
01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:07.400
<v Speaker 4>the Internet came around and I started to argue with

1029
01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:10.400
<v Speaker 4>atheists online and they started bringing up all sorts of

1030
01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:13.159
<v Speaker 4>objections that I'd never heard of. You know, this was

1031
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:16.480
<v Speaker 4>in Usenet groups and whatnot, because it predated social media,

1032
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.800
<v Speaker 4>and it just was dragging me down in a way

1033
01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:22.239
<v Speaker 4>I didn't even realize.

1034
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.559
<v Speaker 6>And then one day.

1035
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:27.199
<v Speaker 4>I remember I was driving and I just thought, I

1036
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:31.920
<v Speaker 4>don't know if I believe this anymore, and it was

1037
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:33.880
<v Speaker 4>just suffocating to me, and I.

1038
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:37.440
<v Speaker 6>Was really kind of in despair.

1039
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:40.760
<v Speaker 4>And then I really feel like it was maybe even

1040
01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:46.159
<v Speaker 4>the next day, a professor of mine who didn't really

1041
01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:50.119
<v Speaker 4>know the struggles that were going on, but he was

1042
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:55.559
<v Speaker 4>a Christian, he gave me a copy of Mere Christianity

1043
01:01:55.599 --> 01:01:59.159
<v Speaker 4>and told me that I should read it, and it

1044
01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:03.679
<v Speaker 4>absolutely blew my mind that, hey, I I can ask

1045
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:10.400
<v Speaker 4>these questions, I can think and reason about what I believe,

1046
01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:16.119
<v Speaker 4>So I I know God used that in my life massively,

1047
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:19.559
<v Speaker 4>and I just started devouring everything that Lewis wrote from

1048
01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:22.519
<v Speaker 4>then on. So I read pretty much all of his

1049
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:27.679
<v Speaker 4>nonfiction first and then moved in to all of his fiction.

1050
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:30.719
<v Speaker 6>So that was a pivotal point in my life.

1051
01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:35.519
<v Speaker 4>So even though while I wasn't a child, that was

1052
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:38.519
<v Speaker 4>a seriously important book for me.

1053
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Was Mere Christianity, Pray Scott, that's awesome. I think we

1054
01:02:42.559 --> 01:02:45.039
<v Speaker 2>probably all a test on some level to the importance

1055
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:50.639
<v Speaker 2>of Lewis or you token in there of shaping our

1056
01:02:50.679 --> 01:02:53.679
<v Speaker 2>worldview and maybe answering some of those those questions that

1057
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:56.039
<v Speaker 2>kind of you know, we're wrestling with at the time.

1058
01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I definitely believe that I'm just as much Lewis

1059
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:05.159
<v Speaker 1>as you can in a year is going to be

1060
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:08.840
<v Speaker 1>better than most apologetics degrees or even most theology degrees,

1061
01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:12.440
<v Speaker 1>philosophy degrees, whatever. I mean. I know that in my

1062
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:16.800
<v Speaker 1>own experience of I'm pretty sure when I was younger

1063
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:19.239
<v Speaker 1>I might have read Mere christian anywhey I was younger,

1064
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.480
<v Speaker 1>I know I read screwtape letters somewhere along the way.

1065
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:26.480
<v Speaker 1>But you know, when I towards the end, or maybe

1066
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:27.960
<v Speaker 1>even after, I don't know, at some point in last

1067
01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.320
<v Speaker 1>few years, when I really got into Lewis, like on

1068
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:34.480
<v Speaker 1>an extreme level, I definitely became convinced that, like as

1069
01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:37.840
<v Speaker 1>far as just that this content goes, reading a bunch

1070
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.440
<v Speaker 1>of Lewis is better than most advanced degrees on not

1071
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:46.800
<v Speaker 1>just an academic level, but i'll kind of deeply existential level.

1072
01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:49.960
<v Speaker 1>He has such an insight into the faith that he

1073
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:54.119
<v Speaker 1>could defend rationally as well as engage with as somebody

1074
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.760
<v Speaker 1>who actually loves Christ and the wisdom that the Christian

1075
01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:00.800
<v Speaker 1>faith has to offer. So I mean, and I'm sure

1076
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that we can all echoes something of that regarding what

1077
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Lewis has provided.

1078
01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:09.039
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I wish I would have as a teenager or

1079
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:12.480
<v Speaker 5>read more Lewis unless of the Left Behind series.

1080
01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:14.920
<v Speaker 2>But we all have our regrets.

1081
01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:19.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as as a teenager, I Inhaled Lewis's nonfiction and

1082
01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:23.320
<v Speaker 3>it's it's so good, it's so foundational. Even where I

1083
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:27.000
<v Speaker 3>disagree with it, he helps me to learn how to

1084
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:31.679
<v Speaker 3>disagree with fellow Christians in a healthy way. And I

1085
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:34.199
<v Speaker 3>would absolutely say Mere Christianity is a book that you

1086
01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:37.440
<v Speaker 3>could read every year and get something new and refreshing

1087
01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:40.599
<v Speaker 3>and soul constructing every time.

1088
01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:43.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Lewis famously thought that Harry Potter books were great.

1089
01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:45.760
<v Speaker 2>It's true, He's right.

1090
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.599
<v Speaker 1>I think I saw that on an inspirational post going

1091
01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:50.599
<v Speaker 1>around Facebook recently.

1092
01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:54.119
<v Speaker 5>I think it was followed by hashtag rallying did nothing

1093
01:04:54.159 --> 01:05:01.920
<v Speaker 5>wrong for my next one, I think, which was interesting.

1094
01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:04.880
<v Speaker 5>I think I got more of it now that I'm

1095
01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:07.320
<v Speaker 5>an adult than when I was forced to read it

1096
01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:12.639
<v Speaker 5>in school, but going through the study at Beowulf actually

1097
01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:19.559
<v Speaker 5>realized deeper meaning some of the Christian themes that were

1098
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:24.559
<v Speaker 5>going through it, compared to like pub book school just

1099
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:28.679
<v Speaker 5>making you read a bad translation the whole way through.

1100
01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:34.360
<v Speaker 5>And that's just led me to definitely, in this time

1101
01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:35.760
<v Speaker 5>of my life read a lot more.

1102
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:36.000
<v Speaker 2>So.

1103
01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Obviously I could go off on Beaiwell for a while,

1104
01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:42.119
<v Speaker 1>which I'm not going to, but I will say that

1105
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:46.679
<v Speaker 1>there's so much material that is sometimes taught in schools.

1106
01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:49.119
<v Speaker 1>All the things like Baywolf are being taught less and

1107
01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:52.639
<v Speaker 1>less often, as I find speaking with my undergrad students

1108
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:55.320
<v Speaker 1>that a lot of them have never read anything from Beywolf.

1109
01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:57.159
<v Speaker 1>Those who have, I've just read a little bit. I

1110
01:05:57.159 --> 01:05:59.239
<v Speaker 1>know when I was in school we read I think

1111
01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:01.639
<v Speaker 1>I basically just helped to the fight with Grendel and

1112
01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:04.519
<v Speaker 1>that was it. And the only insights I walked away

1113
01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:07.280
<v Speaker 1>with is it's an old story about a guy fighting

1114
01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:09.800
<v Speaker 1>a monster. Like That's about the level of analysis that

1115
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:15.760
<v Speaker 1>I got. It's just there's so much in great literature

1116
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:19.119
<v Speaker 1>that even if students are exposed to it, it's almost

1117
01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:23.000
<v Speaker 1>worse that they are exposed to it, because they end

1118
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:26.400
<v Speaker 1>up with a twisted understanding of what it is, whereas

1119
01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:29.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, when I read something like Beaywulf, now it's

1120
01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:34.159
<v Speaker 1>just it's abounding in deep wisdom. But I'm gonna stop

1121
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.559
<v Speaker 1>myself there. Otherwise I'm just gonna talk about Beywolf for

1122
01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:38.800
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the night. Well, Aaron, is there is

1123
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:40.119
<v Speaker 1>there anyhere else you wanted to go?

1124
01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:42.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I actually wanted to ask you guys first because

1125
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:44.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm on the west coast, so it's it's still fairly

1126
01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:46.360
<v Speaker 2>early for me. I know some of you are on

1127
01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:48.000
<v Speaker 2>the East coast. How are we doing on time?

1128
01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:50.760
<v Speaker 1>I will probably need to drop off relatively soon, coming

1129
01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:54.719
<v Speaker 1>up on eleven o'clock here, But I mean, if you

1130
01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:56.480
<v Speaker 1>guys want to keep partying on feel free.

1131
01:06:56.920 --> 01:07:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, what if we did like more rapid fire

1132
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:02.880
<v Speaker 2>round of one more book for each of us, and

1133
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:05.079
<v Speaker 2>then we can probably call it good for today?

1134
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:06.320
<v Speaker 6>Okay?

1135
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.679
<v Speaker 2>All right? Well, I actually only prepared three, so this

1136
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:12.760
<v Speaker 2>works out for me. So we talked a lot about

1137
01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Lewis and we Tolkien has been mentioned here and there,

1138
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:19.599
<v Speaker 2>and you think I'm gonna choose Lord of the Rings,

1139
01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:22.320
<v Speaker 2>but I'm actually going to be choosing the Hobbit.

1140
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:23.800
<v Speaker 3>I do it.

1141
01:07:25.239 --> 01:07:29.800
<v Speaker 2>That is one of my favorite books of all time. Now,

1142
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.199
<v Speaker 2>obviously it is as mature and as in depth as

1143
01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:37.199
<v Speaker 2>Lord of the Rings. No, and it's not meant to be.

1144
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:42.559
<v Speaker 2>It's I first read it as as a teenager, and

1145
01:07:42.639 --> 01:07:45.840
<v Speaker 2>it was written for someone like me at that age.

1146
01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:51.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, he token wrote it for his children around

1147
01:07:51.159 --> 01:07:54.320
<v Speaker 2>that age as well, And so I just loved reading

1148
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:57.599
<v Speaker 2>The Hobbit. It's one of the best books I read

1149
01:07:57.679 --> 01:07:59.760
<v Speaker 2>during my teenage years. And then after that I read

1150
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:01.400
<v Speaker 2>the Little or the Rings books and they were good.

1151
01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Obviously they're better now than I'm reading it as an adult,

1152
01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:08.880
<v Speaker 2>but reading The Hobbit as a teenager was just super

1153
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:12.239
<v Speaker 2>formative that they were funny, they were witty. Now i'm

1154
01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:16.960
<v Speaker 2>teaching it as well to my ninth graders, and just

1155
01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:21.039
<v Speaker 2>in every single year, I'm just experiencing seeing new things

1156
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:26.640
<v Speaker 2>from the text. And so is it as again, is

1157
01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:28.319
<v Speaker 2>it as sophisticated as as Lord of the Rings are

1158
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:32.319
<v Speaker 2>somewhere realian No, but it is pretty dang sophisticated. There's

1159
01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:35.479
<v Speaker 2>a lot going on with the Hobbit, so pro Hobbit.

1160
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm really glad you said that it's still really sophisticated,

1161
01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:41.159
<v Speaker 3>because I think there's this sense that you know, it's

1162
01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:44.600
<v Speaker 3>the kiddie book, and yes, it's completely appropriate for our kids,

1163
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:48.159
<v Speaker 3>but there's sophisticated stuff going on there. And not to

1164
01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:51.640
<v Speaker 3>mention the just beauty of Tolkien's language, which as always

1165
01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:56.520
<v Speaker 3>is just phenomenal, the poetry and the songs, and even

1166
01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:59.239
<v Speaker 3>just some of the narration, like describing the eagles and

1167
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:04.680
<v Speaker 3>the flying it still qualifies for Lewis's here are Beauties

1168
01:09:04.720 --> 01:09:05.720
<v Speaker 3>that pierce the soul.

1169
01:09:06.279 --> 01:09:08.640
<v Speaker 2>All right, well, Ian's what's your last book?

1170
01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:12.000
<v Speaker 3>So I did do a prioritization, and my last book

1171
01:09:12.039 --> 01:09:14.720
<v Speaker 3>is going to be the Anna green Gables series by

1172
01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Ellen Montgomery. One of my favorite three authors as an

1173
01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:22.000
<v Speaker 3>adult is Jane Austen, and I would trace my love

1174
01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:28.760
<v Speaker 3>of her character and morality focused writing to falling in

1175
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:31.359
<v Speaker 3>love with Ant of green Gables when I was ten

1176
01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:34.079
<v Speaker 3>and I read all eight of the books the summer

1177
01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:38.239
<v Speaker 3>I turned ten, and I thought they were just delightful

1178
01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:44.319
<v Speaker 3>community studies, romance, all the little coming of age things,

1179
01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:48.800
<v Speaker 3>and they enchanted my little mind with the ideals of

1180
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:52.520
<v Speaker 3>what is living the good life in a mundane setting?

1181
01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Of course, you know, you had Red Wall, you had

1182
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:57.920
<v Speaker 3>Tarlock Holmes, you know, a great detective or a mouse

1183
01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:01.279
<v Speaker 3>with a magic sword. But you know, a normal guy

1184
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:04.880
<v Speaker 3>who becomes a doctor and marries his childhood sweetheart, a

1185
01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:07.640
<v Speaker 3>girl who becomes a teacher and then a mother. How

1186
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:10.760
<v Speaker 3>can you live a good life, a life of joy

1187
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:16.680
<v Speaker 3>and delight even through great pain and loss and hardship.

1188
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:20.720
<v Speaker 3>And the Anaquen Cables books give you a great model

1189
01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:24.840
<v Speaker 3>for that, and I recommend them. Obviously they're more typical

1190
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:28.840
<v Speaker 3>for boys, sorry for girls to read those, but I

1191
01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:31.520
<v Speaker 3>read them at ten. I have many of my brothers

1192
01:10:31.520 --> 01:10:34.399
<v Speaker 3>and my dad have also read them and loved them,

1193
01:10:34.600 --> 01:10:38.119
<v Speaker 3>So I think they're kind of a thing that can

1194
01:10:38.199 --> 01:10:40.720
<v Speaker 3>be universal. If you're willing to get over there about

1195
01:10:40.720 --> 01:10:41.399
<v Speaker 3>a girl.

1196
01:10:41.640 --> 01:10:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, first one rapid fire, then I'll move on with mine.

1197
01:10:46.319 --> 01:10:49.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that. I mean, I just gotta pick Lord

1198
01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:53.079
<v Speaker 1>of the Rings. You know, even though I didn't read

1199
01:10:53.119 --> 01:10:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the books until a little bit later in life, I mean,

1200
01:10:57.079 --> 01:10:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I was taken with the general atmosphere or

1201
01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:01.840
<v Speaker 1>general world as permeedi at the culture. You know. I

1202
01:11:01.880 --> 01:11:03.880
<v Speaker 1>watched the Jackson movies when they came out, you know,

1203
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:06.760
<v Speaker 1>played some of the games that are connected to it,

1204
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:11.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, Big Battle for Metal Earth fan, but you

1205
01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:14.560
<v Speaker 1>know when when I discovered the books at the right time,

1206
01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:17.840
<v Speaker 1>that was personally it was one of the most difficult

1207
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:22.159
<v Speaker 1>times in my life. And what I needed was not

1208
01:11:22.279 --> 01:11:27.279
<v Speaker 1>so much to know some philosophical concept or theological concept.

1209
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:29.840
<v Speaker 1>What I needed to do is to experience it. And

1210
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:32.439
<v Speaker 1>that's what Tolkien had to offer. One of the most

1211
01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:35.079
<v Speaker 1>compelling elements of Talken to me is how he blends

1212
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:40.439
<v Speaker 1>sorrow and hope of this Christian idea that joy is

1213
01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:44.359
<v Speaker 1>found in suffering. One of the best lines in the book.

1214
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:47.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, it comes from Haldier. The world is indeed

1215
01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:50.399
<v Speaker 1>full apparel, and then there are many dark places, but

1216
01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:53.159
<v Speaker 1>still there's much that is fair. And though in all

1217
01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:56.359
<v Speaker 1>lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps

1218
01:11:56.479 --> 01:12:00.479
<v Speaker 1>the greater, And that idea just permeates talk in the world.

1219
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:05.359
<v Speaker 1>And I think that it's again much as Augustin did before.

1220
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.319
<v Speaker 1>He allowed me to experience the depth of reality and

1221
01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:13.479
<v Speaker 1>its beauty and its brokenness more profoundly than I was

1222
01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:17.159
<v Speaker 1>equipped to do so before. So I gotta give my

1223
01:12:17.159 --> 01:12:18.920
<v Speaker 1>my last vote to Lord of the Rings.

1224
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:20.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I didn't have.

1225
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:21.960
<v Speaker 5>A third book, but these were all good.

1226
01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:25.159
<v Speaker 6>Go ahead, David, No, I didn't I didn't have anything

1227
01:12:25.159 --> 01:12:25.640
<v Speaker 6>else either.

1228
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:29.239
<v Speaker 4>I prepared one. I thought that was the assignment. I

1229
01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:31.439
<v Speaker 4>spent the rest of my elementary school years playing on

1230
01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:32.600
<v Speaker 4>my Commodore sixty four.

1231
01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:36.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, And that's why we have a video game podcast.

1232
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, So, I mean we we have branched off

1233
01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:44.760
<v Speaker 1>into a couple kind of side gigs here. So in

1234
01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:47.800
<v Speaker 1>addition to this this main podcast, we also have Mythic

1235
01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Mind Movies and shows, which is where we're continuing our

1236
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:52.399
<v Speaker 1>Star Wars, and then we've got Mythic Mind Games where

1237
01:12:52.399 --> 01:12:55.479
<v Speaker 1>we're doing video game analysis, doing some kind of kind

1238
01:12:55.520 --> 01:12:58.920
<v Speaker 1>of stuff with that medium. In fact, I thought about

1239
01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:01.399
<v Speaker 1>mentioned before that if we're talking about stories that grip

1240
01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Us and I should probably throw in through something like

1241
01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:07.439
<v Speaker 1>morowined in there. It's something that that you kind of

1242
01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:10.520
<v Speaker 1>just as a child, like those kinds of things that

1243
01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:13.920
<v Speaker 1>really captured my attention and brought me into a world

1244
01:13:13.960 --> 01:13:17.399
<v Speaker 1>of enchantment. But I was trying to keep it literally focused.

1245
01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I learned something new. I'm glad you gotta plug

1246
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:25.560
<v Speaker 2>those those two other podcasts promotion, that's right, that's right,

1247
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>an honorable mention for me. Again, it's not great writing,

1248
01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:33.399
<v Speaker 2>but it was really formative for me is the Inheritance

1249
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Cycle by Christopher Paolini. So Aragon eldest singer and I

1250
01:13:42.359 --> 01:13:46.720
<v Speaker 2>remember what last one is. I don't know, but I

1251
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:51.479
<v Speaker 2>really enjoyed reading. There's actually hanging in my classroom. I

1252
01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:53.520
<v Speaker 2>can't get to right now because it's buried behind desks.

1253
01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:56.840
<v Speaker 2>But you know like those old read posters where it

1254
01:13:56.840 --> 01:13:59.159
<v Speaker 2>has like a character and then just has the word

1255
01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:02.239
<v Speaker 2>the word read on it. Well, my one of my

1256
01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:06.920
<v Speaker 2>ninth grade teachers made a picture of me in ninth grade.

1257
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I still had a very full beard back in ninth grade. Guy,

1258
01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:14.840
<v Speaker 2>So it's toy legit, but of me reading eldest the

1259
01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:18.279
<v Speaker 2>second in the story. And so I brought it in

1260
01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:21.000
<v Speaker 2>into the class to kind of show that the students

1261
01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:24.199
<v Speaker 2>use it as a motivation, like, hey, just you know,

1262
01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:29.359
<v Speaker 2>read read out of high school. I don't think any

1263
01:14:29.399 --> 01:14:32.840
<v Speaker 2>extra reading has gotten done. One thing that my students

1264
01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:35.000
<v Speaker 2>did do and this will never see the light of day.

1265
01:14:35.479 --> 01:14:38.560
<v Speaker 2>I'll just mention it. Anyways, a student grabbed hold of

1266
01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:41.880
<v Speaker 2>the photo and made a flag of it, and so

1267
01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:46.479
<v Speaker 2>there's like a flag of like ten of me, just

1268
01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:47.840
<v Speaker 2>like plaster all over this.

1269
01:14:49.279 --> 01:14:49.319
<v Speaker 5>This.

1270
01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:54.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a super loud red flag it's awful, but it's

1271
01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:57.199
<v Speaker 2>it's really funny at the same time. But again, you

1272
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:58.199
<v Speaker 2>guys are never going to see that.

1273
01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, Is there anything else that you wanted to mention?

1274
01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks

1275
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:10.279
<v Speaker 2>for being part of it, guys. I hope those who

1276
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:15.399
<v Speaker 2>are listening and watching they maybe have some titles that

1277
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:18.079
<v Speaker 2>they want to, you know, put on the short list

1278
01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:22.159
<v Speaker 2>to read and or maybe putting in their kids' hands.

1279
01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I really appreciate you guys jumping on a

1280
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:26.880
<v Speaker 2>call and sharing your wisdom.

1281
01:15:27.399 --> 01:15:31.399
<v Speaker 1>Cool, and and thank you Erin for facilitating this. Definitely

1282
01:15:31.720 --> 01:15:34.079
<v Speaker 1>hope to see you in some future conversations. I know

1283
01:15:34.119 --> 01:15:37.239
<v Speaker 1>you're a busy man, got lots of books to sell,

1284
01:15:37.279 --> 01:15:39.640
<v Speaker 1>and so everyone go go buy his books. Enjoy flat post.

1285
01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:43.600
<v Speaker 1>All right, Thanks Aaron, thank you everyone else for showing up,

1286
01:15:43.640 --> 01:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>and we'll go ahead and wrap it there, all right.

1287
01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening, and thank you for joining us

1288
01:15:51.880 --> 01:15:55.239
<v Speaker 1>for the one hundredth episode of the Main Mythic Mind podcast.

1289
01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:57.920
<v Speaker 1>We've come a long way since the beginning. We've really

1290
01:15:57.960 --> 01:16:00.760
<v Speaker 1>just we've transformed what this is. This is no longer

1291
01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:03.319
<v Speaker 1>just a guy with a podcast it truly is a

1292
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:08.479
<v Speaker 1>community effort, is a fellowship built around significant ideas, built

1293
01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:13.640
<v Speaker 1>around a desire for wisdom, built around the compelling nature

1294
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:19.000
<v Speaker 1>of stories that speak deeply to ongoing realities of what

1295
01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:22.159
<v Speaker 1>it means to be human. I mean, in some we've

1296
01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:26.039
<v Speaker 1>established a fellowship that is really intent on going further

1297
01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:28.880
<v Speaker 1>up and further in, and I hope that you'll consider

1298
01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>joining us if you would like to be a part

1299
01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>of what we do. If you want to fund what

1300
01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:36.600
<v Speaker 1>we do, then head over to patreon dot com slash

1301
01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Mythic Mind and become a patron today. Even a small

1302
01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:42.439
<v Speaker 1>bit of support is helpful and will give you full

1303
01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>access to all three of the Mythic Mind podcasts delivered

1304
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:48.279
<v Speaker 1>early in ad free into one feed, as well as

1305
01:16:48.279 --> 01:16:51.560
<v Speaker 1>full discord access. And you can find what out with

1306
01:16:51.560 --> 01:16:53.720
<v Speaker 1>the other tears do if you head over to patreon

1307
01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:56.399
<v Speaker 1>dot com slash Mythic Mind. But I do want to

1308
01:16:56.520 --> 01:17:00.880
<v Speaker 1>think all of our patrons. We currently have of seventy

1309
01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:03.720
<v Speaker 1>active patrons and by name, I would like to thank

1310
01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:08.720
<v Speaker 1>all Tier three patrons and higher, So thank you to Mark, Aaron, Amanda,

1311
01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:17.279
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Chase, Chaz, Christopher Clinton, David Don, Aaron Evy, Adam Jack, Jamie, Justin, Justin, Kyle, Paul, Roger,

1312
01:17:17.439 --> 01:17:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Ross Tyler, and William. All my patrons helped me to

1313
01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:25.560
<v Speaker 1>make these things possible, but of course the higher tier

1314
01:17:25.600 --> 01:17:27.560
<v Speaker 1>helped me to go a little bit further. And so

1315
01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:29.800
<v Speaker 1>if you would like to support us, if you want

1316
01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:31.800
<v Speaker 1>to be a part of what we're doing here, head

1317
01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:34.560
<v Speaker 1>over to Patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind. But that's

1318
01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:36.840
<v Speaker 1>it for now. If you're going to keep listening on

1319
01:17:36.920 --> 01:17:39.079
<v Speaker 1>the free platforms, then the next thing to come out

1320
01:17:39.079 --> 01:17:43.199
<v Speaker 1>from Mythic Mind, see we'll be on Wednesday. We have

1321
01:17:43.640 --> 01:17:46.279
<v Speaker 1>something coming out from the Mythic Mind movies and Charis podcasts,

1322
01:17:46.399 --> 01:17:48.079
<v Speaker 1>although I don't quite know what that's going to be

1323
01:17:48.199 --> 01:17:52.880
<v Speaker 1>yet because we replaced our normal recording time for this episode,

1324
01:17:53.199 --> 01:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>so I had something will be coming out over there

1325
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:59.119
<v Speaker 1>on Wednesday, the sixteen, that Mythic Mind movies and shows.

1326
01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:15.640
<v Speaker 1>But that's for now until next time, Godspeeding Plato Stoicism

1327
01:18:15.720 --> 01:18:18.319
<v Speaker 1>until we have Faces, an eight week course led by

1328
01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:24.479
<v Speaker 1>doctor ANDREWS. Snyder beginning August twenty twenty five. I have always,

1329
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:27.399
<v Speaker 1>at least ever since I can remember, had a kind

1330
01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:30.239
<v Speaker 1>of longing for death. It was when I was happiest

1331
01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:32.760
<v Speaker 1>that I longed most. It was on happy days when

1332
01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:34.640
<v Speaker 1>we were up in the hills, the three of us,

1333
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:37.680
<v Speaker 1>with the wind and the sunshine, where you couldn't see

1334
01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Gloam or the palace. Do you remember the color and

1335
01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:43.479
<v Speaker 1>the smell, and looking across at the gray mountain in

1336
01:18:43.520 --> 01:18:47.399
<v Speaker 1>the distance, And because it was so beautiful, it set

1337
01:18:47.439 --> 01:18:50.880
<v Speaker 1>me longing, always longing somewhere else, there must be more

1338
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:55.000
<v Speaker 1>of it. Everything seemed to be saying, Psyche, come, but

1339
01:18:55.079 --> 01:18:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't come, and I didn't know where I was

1340
01:18:57.600 --> 01:19:00.720
<v Speaker 1>to come to. It almost hurt me. I felt like

1341
01:19:00.760 --> 01:19:03.079
<v Speaker 1>a bird in a cage when the other birds of

1342
01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:07.039
<v Speaker 1>its kind are flying home. And now I will make

1343
01:19:07.079 --> 01:19:09.800
<v Speaker 1>answer to you, o, my judges, and show that he

1344
01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:12.479
<v Speaker 1>who has lived as a true philosopher has reason to

1345
01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:14.199
<v Speaker 1>be of good cheer when he is about to die,

1346
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:17.399
<v Speaker 1>that after death he may hope to receive the greatest

1347
01:19:17.399 --> 01:19:19.880
<v Speaker 1>good in the other world. For I deem that the

1348
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:22.840
<v Speaker 1>true disciple of philosophy is likely to be misunderstood by

1349
01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:25.159
<v Speaker 1>other men. They do not perceive that he is ever

1350
01:19:25.239 --> 01:19:28.199
<v Speaker 1>pursuing death and dying. And if this is true, why

1351
01:19:28.560 --> 01:19:31.239
<v Speaker 1>having had the desire of death all his life long

1352
01:19:31.520 --> 01:19:33.560
<v Speaker 1>should he regret the arrival of that which he has

1353
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:38.319
<v Speaker 1>always been pursuing and desiring. The longing of Plato and

1354
01:19:38.439 --> 01:19:42.199
<v Speaker 1>the control of the Stoics pervades Louis's retelling of the

1355
01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:45.119
<v Speaker 1>Cupid and psyche Myth until we have faces with this

1356
01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:48.520
<v Speaker 1>incredible novel, which he believed to be his best. Lewis

1357
01:19:48.520 --> 01:19:52.479
<v Speaker 1>demonstrates the tensions in ancient thought, and even more significantly,

1358
01:19:52.760 --> 01:19:55.800
<v Speaker 1>the limits of rational philosophy, which can only go as

1359
01:19:55.840 --> 01:19:59.279
<v Speaker 1>deep as the foxes can dig beyond that, under that

1360
01:19:59.479 --> 01:20:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and provide the life of that thought, we find the

1361
01:20:02.960 --> 01:20:06.520
<v Speaker 1>dark and holy places that blind our faculties of reason.

1362
01:20:07.239 --> 01:20:10.079
<v Speaker 1>What then, shall we do? This is a topic that

1363
01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>we will explore after first surveying some important philosophical contributions

1364
01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:16.600
<v Speaker 1>in the ancient world that have had some significant bearing

1365
01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:19.800
<v Speaker 1>on Lewis's great novel. To this end, we will begin

1366
01:20:19.880 --> 01:20:23.079
<v Speaker 1>with Plato's Phato, which discusses the immortality of the soul

1367
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:26.159
<v Speaker 1>and what those who love wisdom might expect in the

1368
01:20:26.199 --> 01:20:28.680
<v Speaker 1>life to come, and then we'll spend four weeks with

1369
01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:32.640
<v Speaker 1>some of the great Stoics, including Epictetus, Emperor Marcus Aurelius,

1370
01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:35.720
<v Speaker 1>and Seneca. Finally, we will turn our attention to till

1371
01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:38.560
<v Speaker 1>we have faces for the final two weeks with original

1372
01:20:38.600 --> 01:20:40.720
<v Speaker 1>content and so this will not be the same as

1373
01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:42.800
<v Speaker 1>what you may have seen in the Fiction and Philosophy

1374
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:45.479
<v Speaker 1>of CS. Lewis course. Each week of this eight week

1375
01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:48.479
<v Speaker 1>study will include readings from primary sources that will be

1376
01:20:48.520 --> 01:20:51.479
<v Speaker 1>provided as PDFs, although these are all texts that belong

1377
01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:54.800
<v Speaker 1>in your personal library. You'll be provided with recommendations for

1378
01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:58.119
<v Speaker 1>secondary readings. You'll have recorded presentations for you to watch

1379
01:20:58.119 --> 01:21:01.560
<v Speaker 1>at your leisure, ongoing discord checks, and weekly life meetings

1380
01:21:01.560 --> 01:21:04.199
<v Speaker 1>to discuss the readings enrolled today by going to patreon

1381
01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:06.560
<v Speaker 1>dot com slash Mythic Mind and checking out the job.

1382
01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:09.439
<v Speaker 1>Or we can gain access to all courses, past, present

1383
01:21:09.560 --> 01:21:13.239
<v Speaker 1>and future this year by purchasing a Tier three annual subscription.

1384
01:21:13.439 --> 01:21:14.359
<v Speaker 1>I hope to see you there.