Speaker 1: Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Tonight,
Speaker 1: I want to welcome Turdia Simmonson. He is a Norwegian
Speaker 1: historian of ideas and a nonfiction author specializing in the
Speaker 1: esoteric and occult. He has educated at the University of Oslo,
Speaker 1: where he has also taught introductory courses on philosophical and
Speaker 1: literary works in the prestigious series The Cultural Library in
Speaker 1: the World's Holy Scriptures. He has published essays on I
Speaker 1: and Now and the first book of Enoch and Esoteric
Speaker 1: Texts from Antiquity. He is a full member of ESSWE,
Speaker 1: the European Society for the Study of Western Esotericism. Turtia, welcome,
Speaker 1: How are you doing today?
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot for having me. Well, I'm fine, thank you,
Speaker 2: he said in the middle of the night here. But
Speaker 2: you know, as a writer about esoteric and occult subjects,
Speaker 2: I used to be up at night time, so it
Speaker 2: works quite well.
Speaker 1: Oh very good. Now, I've been looking forward to tonight.
Speaker 1: You have been a great contributor to the understanding of
Speaker 1: our hidden reality through your research and work, and looking
Speaker 1: forward talking tonight, we're going to discuss some of that
Speaker 1: research and your philosophy on the paranormal as well as
Speaker 1: look into you know, what really is parapsychology and occultism
Speaker 1: and the differences and just take a look at our
Speaker 1: hidden nature of reality in general and what's behind the paranormal,
Speaker 1: because that covers a wide range of phenomenon really, and first,
Speaker 1: I'd really love to hear more about your background and
Speaker 1: what led you to be interested in these subjects and
Speaker 1: down your path.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm born in Christiansand, which is a southern town
Speaker 2: in the Norway, close to the coast, and I grew
Speaker 2: up very close to that tone and even smaller tone
Speaker 2: called Mandal. They have a history with sea voyage and
Speaker 2: fishing and that kind of maritime activities. So I grew
Speaker 2: up here, a small town ten thousand inhabitants about so
Speaker 2: and well, I became member of my Christian youth club
Speaker 2: when I became in my teens, and some of those
Speaker 2: people told me about strange stories. And because I somehow
Speaker 2: trusted these people, I had no reason to believe that
Speaker 2: they were lying to me.
Speaker 3: But you know, there were.
Speaker 2: Episodes of telepathy, episodes of healing, episodes of knowing the
Speaker 2: future through dreams and that kind of stuff. Not any
Speaker 2: sensational things that well, you know, something makes you wonder
Speaker 2: a bit, and hmm, that's funny, and so and later
Speaker 2: also my family trusted the aunt and uncle told me things,
Speaker 2: and even my very rational grandfather, he was an engineer,
Speaker 2: machine engineer, and very extremely down to earth person, but
Speaker 2: he told me that he was able to hear my
Speaker 2: grandmother before she came home about half an hour. He
Speaker 2: would got to get the sounds for her approaching, and
Speaker 2: it became kind of routine for him. And it would
Speaker 2: not be at the same time of day, of course,
Speaker 2: because then it would just be kind of psychological normal
Speaker 2: expectation perhaps, But if she was late that evening or
Speaker 2: have met some friends and went to a cafe or something,
Speaker 2: also these sounds of her approaching would come later. So
Speaker 2: it became as a matter of routine for him. So
Speaker 2: when he started hearing the sounds of her opening the
Speaker 2: door and coming up the stairs, he just went to
Speaker 2: the stove and put on the dinner and the potatoes
Speaker 2: and that things, because then he knew from many many
Speaker 2: say the times of experien that she would appear about
Speaker 2: half an hour later. In Norwegian that phenomenon is called
Speaker 2: varderger and it seems to statistics shows that this phenomenon
Speaker 2: it's known from different cultures also, but it's more common
Speaker 2: in Norway for some reason that I do not know,
Speaker 2: than in other PSI countries. So it's called the Norwegian
Speaker 2: National paranormal phenomenon.
Speaker 3: So of Ardaga.
Speaker 2: And as I said, my grandfather told me this, My
Speaker 2: uncle and aunt told me say dream telepathy stories, and
Speaker 2: these guys in the Christian youth club told me about
Speaker 2: telepathy and healing and such things. So I always had
Speaker 2: a feeling that there had to be something more, you know.
Speaker 2: But I went to a normal study and get a
Speaker 2: girlfriend when I was about twenty one years old, and
Speaker 2: she had extremely good intuition and was able to say
Speaker 2: things that I wondered a bit how would that possibly
Speaker 2: be possible to know?
Speaker 3: And also.
Speaker 2: She went to a kind of therapist, physiotherapist who was
Speaker 2: extremely sensitive and also say dim demonstrated some abilities in teleprity.
Speaker 2: And when I started my academic career, I by chance
Speaker 2: or by synchronicity, or by higher guidance or whatever I
Speaker 2: got as mentor and always foremost expert on occult phenomena.
Speaker 2: His name is Professor John Eric Sister Abster Hunsen, and
Speaker 2: his publication list is quite long, more than one hundred
Speaker 2: publication academic articles, books, chapters and all that kind of things.
Speaker 2: So and he told me that there was a kind
Speaker 2: of task waiting for the right person writing about anthroposophy
Speaker 2: in Norway. And as you probably know, anthroposophy is the
Speaker 2: version of theosophy that was launched by Rudolf Steiner, Austrian
Speaker 2: esoteric teacher about the turn of the century, I would say,
Speaker 2: late to the beginning of the twentieth century. So I
Speaker 2: went into that tradition and studied also And as I said,
Speaker 2: he was a great expert on European esoteric and occult traditions,
Speaker 2: so he also had courses in Renaissance hermetism, and from
Speaker 2: my own interest that I also studied the more modern
Speaker 2: hermitism and hermetic order of the Golden Dawn and Okayan
Speaker 2: traditions and all that kind of things. So and I
Speaker 2: made my dissertation on this anthroposophical thing, and well after
Speaker 2: that I went into parap psychology also because I read
Speaker 2: some article about Norwegian psychics and one of them we
Speaker 2: can get back to that. It gave me quite convincing
Speaker 2: demonstration of being able to tell the future, and also
Speaker 2: to read minds really not being present and reading the
Speaker 2: subtled science or anything like that. But through the telephone
Speaker 2: he gave very say, a couple of stunning examples. I
Speaker 2: can come back to you later. So I felt I
Speaker 2: have to go into not just a history of these
Speaker 2: things or family anecdotes and that can, but also into
Speaker 2: the science, the natural science about these things, and that
Speaker 2: is parap psychology where you have laboratory tests and you
Speaker 2: if you have a bodily scanning you you use brain
Speaker 2: scans fm R I and like kind of modern brain
Speaker 2: scanning equipment and combined that with say and philosophy of mind,
Speaker 2: that is much more inclusive to all this phenomenon.
Speaker 3: So, after studying psychology and.
Speaker 2: You know, somehow wanting to collect all these things in
Speaker 2: a bigger hole, I had an idea for a book.
Speaker 2: And also a friend of mine, he is an experience psychotherapist.
Speaker 2: He told me, yes, you must make a book about
Speaker 2: this because it will be very helpful. And in fact
Speaker 2: he bought three copies of my book and placed it
Speaker 2: on his ward so the young psychologists could read. You know,
Speaker 2: because so many patients tell about this phenomena and the
Speaker 2: normal say psychologists will say just oh, that was strange,
Speaker 2: or his silent mind will think, oh, my patient is
Speaker 2: a bit psychotic today, or this is trauma, or this
Speaker 2: is you know, just fanciful thinking and figments and all that.
Speaker 2: But my friend, who is in a very experienced psychotherapist,
Speaker 2: from his own experience, have had being convinced that these
Speaker 2: phenomena are real. So he felt it was a need
Speaker 2: in the public sphere for such a book. Of course,
Speaker 2: you have all these psychological and psychological articles, but there's
Speaker 2: lots of graphs and statistics and complicated material, and then
Speaker 2: you have the you age material, but that can be
Speaker 2: a bit naive and a bit too eager to believe
Speaker 2: everything that people tell sometimes. So a balanced presentation of
Speaker 2: the whole field was what my friends suggested, and that
Speaker 2: what I hope my book has become very good.
Speaker 1: You wrote, you know, your book was a short story
Speaker 1: of nearly everything paranormal.
Speaker 3: Now got it here? Yes? Perfect?
Speaker 1: Now, this is such a like I said, such a
Speaker 1: wide broad range of phenomenon. Where do you start with this?
Speaker 1: And you know, how do you how do you work
Speaker 1: from there? With such a wide range of phenomenon?
Speaker 3: Well, very good question, indeed, it's big.
Speaker 2: I start with some kind of a history about psychology.
Speaker 2: When they first started to do science about.
Speaker 3: This, say.
Speaker 2: It would be late seventeen hundred, perhaps in France.
Speaker 3: But later with in the eighteen eighties, especially.
Speaker 2: With the Society for Psychic Research in London. That so
Speaker 2: I start with a bit of definitions coming from them
Speaker 2: about say PSI, which is the name, say, the scholarly
Speaker 2: name of these phenomena PSI that is telepathy, clairvoyance, recognition,
Speaker 2: and healing, and teleconists. Teleconess is, you know, moving objects
Speaker 2: with the power of mind.
Speaker 3: So I start a bit with that.
Speaker 2: And also what is say, common for all this phenomena
Speaker 2: seem to be the need to reformulation of our understanding
Speaker 2: of what is consciousness, because by by habit, we tend
Speaker 2: to think the consciousness is something I have inside my head,
Speaker 2: and you have inside you had, and our viewers have
Speaker 2: inside their heads.
Speaker 3: But my idea of consciousness, which.
Speaker 2: Is a new idea in some way in psychology, but
Speaker 2: also a very very old idea in philosophy, is that
Speaker 2: consciousness is a collective phenomenon. It is a shared feel
Speaker 2: of information in which we all participate. And I use
Speaker 2: to make it say, available easily to modern folks. I
Speaker 2: use the concept the mental Internet because we all have
Speaker 2: experienced that information can be transmitted in the split second
Speaker 2: to Australia from Norway, and we all have the experience
Speaker 2: that we can download vast information from the web, and
Speaker 2: metaphorically speaking, I think it's just the same with our consciousness.
Speaker 2: We can transmit via teleprity messages like split second, and
Speaker 2: we can also download via clairvoyance information about such extremely
Speaker 2: diverse matters from all over the world. So I felt
Speaker 2: the Internet was a very useful metaphor to somehow relate
Speaker 2: to our everyday life. How these apparently strange phenomena seem
Speaker 2: to work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very good. Now, you mentioned earlier that there is
Speaker 1: a strange kind of prevalence of this precognition in Norway
Speaker 1: that people have. Could you talk a little bit more
Speaker 1: about this phenomenon, maybe give some examples.
Speaker 2: What I mentioned there was the special kind of recognition
Speaker 2: which is called vardergar. That is an auditive phenomenon, and
Speaker 2: that will say that you hear the sounds of an event,
Speaker 2: but quite a bit of time before that event actually happens.
Speaker 2: As I said, my grandfather half an hour before my
Speaker 2: grandmother would come home. He would hear the sounds of
Speaker 2: her coming and do you know the stairway opening the door,
Speaker 2: getting up the stairs to the second floor. But then
Speaker 2: she was not there. But half an hour later she
Speaker 2: would come in exactly that manner that he had heard.
Speaker 2: So that is an as a auditive recognition. By the
Speaker 2: auditive sounds, you get say, clear record of what is
Speaker 2: about to happen at some later time. Usually it will
Speaker 2: be from about twenty minutes to one hour or there around.
Speaker 2: It can be far much more far ahead also, bet
Speaker 2: that will be the typical. And as I said, you
Speaker 2: know sociologists of religion and that kind of folks, they
Speaker 2: have studied statistics and found that this seems to be
Speaker 2: reported quite more frequent in Norway than other countries. And
Speaker 2: why that is I I wondered quite a lot about,
Speaker 2: but not found out yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very interesting. And you you're also talking about
Speaker 1: consciousness earlier, and I really believe that that is central
Speaker 1: to a lot of this phenomenon. That our consciousness, it's
Speaker 1: like you said, it's collective and it's connected to everything.
Speaker 1: And the more that I learn about, you know, paranormal phenomenon,
Speaker 1: the events that people have witnessed and occurred, and even
Speaker 1: some of the things in New Apology. It all seems
Speaker 1: to be connected in some strange way to consciousness. Yes,
Speaker 1: maybe you could talk a little bit more about the
Speaker 1: mental Internet that you were talking about.
Speaker 3: Yes, as we said, I use.
Speaker 2: I used the description that I launched some models for
Speaker 2: chiropractic reasons. You know, when you go to a chiropractor
Speaker 2: they will crack and need on some stiffered muscles and
Speaker 2: joints and to make them more flexible. Also, I launched
Speaker 2: five different models as an alternative to this say conventional
Speaker 2: model that consciousness is something you have inside your head.
Speaker 2: We have just inside our own heads. So the mental internet,
Speaker 2: as I said, as a metaphor for that consciousness, is
Speaker 2: a shared feel of information. And if you think of
Speaker 2: consciousness that way, telepaty is no wonder at all, because
Speaker 2: it is already in this field. When I make a thought,
Speaker 2: it is already uploaded and available to you. And also,
Speaker 2: as I said, memories from earlier generations, they are uploaded
Speaker 2: on the mental web, and the sensitive people we call
Speaker 2: them psychics, are able to some at least sometimes download
Speaker 2: this information. I can give you a very specific example.
Speaker 3: I'll try to.
Speaker 2: As I said, I my English is not my first language,
Speaker 2: so I have to somehow translate it inside my head hair.
Speaker 2: But as a a friend of mine, he is from
Speaker 2: the Philippines, and he is quite psychic, and he.
Speaker 3: Runs a cafe.
Speaker 2: And right before I went to his cafe one day,
Speaker 2: I had been to another cafe that I do not
Speaker 2: usually visit at that time of day. Uh, And I
Speaker 2: went to his, the Philippines cafe, And you know, I
Speaker 2: know he's quite psychic, so I tried to test him.
Speaker 2: So I used a little tricky question about something that
Speaker 2: had happened yesterday, and I decided, could you tell me
Speaker 2: what happened then and then yesterday?
Speaker 3: And he just.
Speaker 2: Looked a bit on me and said, no, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I cannot do that. And then he went over to
Speaker 2: make some coffee to me. And then he came back
Speaker 2: and then he stared to me with a kind of
Speaker 2: sly smile, and he asked, who was who was what
Speaker 2: is called having running this other cafe today that I
Speaker 2: had been to earlier. You know, I had not told
Speaker 2: him I've been to this other cafe. He had not
Speaker 2: been able to see it from his windows because it's
Speaker 2: another place in town, and so and.
Speaker 3: So he said, he asked me, who was.
Speaker 2: Say on God taking in the money, doing the waiting
Speaker 2: at the tables on this other cafe today?
Speaker 3: And I said, how could you know that I have
Speaker 3: been to this other cafe today?
Speaker 2: And he just loved and said, I get it in
Speaker 2: in my consciousness as a memory. And so it was
Speaker 2: my memory of having been there was shared with him,
Speaker 2: so he was able to download my memory. That's just
Speaker 2: a very simple, say example of this. But you see,
Speaker 2: when I have been there, I have a story, I
Speaker 2: have feelings, I have thoughts, I have in a pictures.
Speaker 2: They are all immediately uploaded on the mental internet, and he,
Speaker 2: being extremely sensitive, is able to download them immediately also. So,
Speaker 2: as I said, the Internet is a metaphor because no
Speaker 2: wires and kind of that. But consciousness have that collective
Speaker 2: shared nature as also the internet have. And this is
Speaker 2: just a very simple example. I can give you lots
Speaker 2: and lots of examples.
Speaker 1: And you think that everyone has this ability to transmit
Speaker 1: and download this information. It's just a matter of learning
Speaker 1: how to tap into that.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, in principle everybody. But as I used the
Speaker 2: example with music, everybody has some sense of music. You know,
Speaker 2: if there is an orchestra marching on the National Day,
Speaker 2: most people will be able to keep pace with the
Speaker 2: orchestra and.
Speaker 1: Just have a natural talent. That's a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the Bethoven.
Speaker 2: Even how much I will train music or you will
Speaker 2: train music, we will never become Bethoven.
Speaker 3: Right. So yes, So there's two factors. In principle.
Speaker 2: Everybody is telepathic, everybody is cleveroin because it's not it's
Speaker 2: not connected to the ego. It's connected to the basic
Speaker 2: level of consciousness that transcends the ego, which we all share,
Speaker 2: probably also animals and perhaps even plants. So it's much
Speaker 2: more fundamental than the ego. And because we all are connected,
Speaker 2: we all have telepathic abilities and we all have clevoyinant abilities.
Speaker 2: But from there that it's talent and it's training, and
Speaker 2: talent is given. That might be genetics. Very often you
Speaker 2: see these things running families, and then it's training. How
Speaker 2: much do you develop This guy I consulted sometimes he
Speaker 2: is very sensitive and very impressive. But he said he
Speaker 2: knew he could do these things when he was seven
Speaker 2: years old, but it was very impractical because he when
Speaker 2: he was in a q with five people that would
Speaker 2: start easily coming information from these other people, you know,
Speaker 2: their life stories and so so it would be confusing.
Speaker 2: So he's somehow learned to shut out all this information.
Speaker 2: But for some reason he got midlife crisis after a divorce,
Speaker 2: and then he decided somehow to look closer and for
Speaker 2: the last forty years or so, he's been living as
Speaker 2: a professional clairvoyant, so talent and training and also will
Speaker 2: to this. And some people, perhaps for religious reason. I
Speaker 2: come from Christian background, and some Christian people are very
Speaker 2: skeptical about They think this is the work of the
Speaker 2: devil and something like that. And other people are just
Speaker 2: scared about. Oh I knew that I was going to
Speaker 2: get a visit from that guy, and there he is.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, I cannot have anything to do
Speaker 2: with that, you know. So fear is also part of
Speaker 2: why people shut down these things. But in a harmonious way.
Speaker 2: I think it's very beneficial to start to develop a
Speaker 2: kind of what say, a kind of sense and taste
Speaker 2: for these things. The Buddhists have, for instance, a very
Speaker 2: long tradition and not denying this phenomena, but say making
Speaker 2: them part of a harmonious growth as a whole person.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned, you know how some people think this
Speaker 1: is the devil and it's evil. Well, I want to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about you know, occultism and magic
Speaker 1: and basically the the ability for some to manipulate the
Speaker 1: reality and in certain ways and energy. And I guess
Speaker 1: that is what you would you would call man And
Speaker 1: there's you know, we have ritual magic, and there's certain
Speaker 1: aspects of manifestation and sigil magic and all kinds of
Speaker 1: different things that we can look at, all these different
Speaker 1: practices that are taking I guess this paranormal side phenomenon
Speaker 1: a step further than just you know, psychic connections. It's
Speaker 1: actually learning how to you know, manipulate some of these
Speaker 1: things at will. So what do you think is I
Speaker 1: guess going on when people are using magic and connecting
Speaker 1: to these energies and be able to kind of manipulate
Speaker 1: reality and achieve manifestation things of this nature.
Speaker 2: Yes, in principle, I think it's nothing wrong with it,
Speaker 2: because say, if you want to build a chair, for instance,
Speaker 2: you go down and you take the hamm, and you
Speaker 2: take the wood, and you take the nailsen, you do
Speaker 2: the work. Really and also if there's something you want
Speaker 2: to achieve to use the mental tools available to achieve
Speaker 2: that result.
Speaker 3: I think that's just a.
Speaker 2: Fair and square and I know, not problematic. The problem is,
Speaker 2: of course, if you use these things to gain power
Speaker 2: and to exploit other people financially actually or psychologically and
Speaker 2: all that kind of power games, that's very dubious. And
Speaker 2: as I said, the Buddhist tradition have a very discerning
Speaker 2: way of dealing with this phenomenon, because you can get
Speaker 2: any kind of inflated ego and oh, I'm a great profit,
Speaker 2: I'm a great magician, and all that kind. So one
Speaker 2: of my favorite esoteric or occult organization is called Servants
Speaker 2: of the Light, and that's a modern offspring of this
Speaker 2: hometic Order of the Golden Dawn. And when you are
Speaker 2: initiated in that order, they will ask you the question
Speaker 2: why do you want to.
Speaker 3: Join this order?
Speaker 2: And then the correct answer you should supposed to give
Speaker 2: is I want to know in order to serve. So
Speaker 2: if your goal is to serve humanity, to serve the
Speaker 2: human race, and to serve life on this planet, I
Speaker 2: think it's wonderful to use these things. But if it's
Speaker 2: just for ego gratification, you should rather do something else.
Speaker 1: Now, when it comes to these especially I guess ritual
Speaker 1: magic and where you actually have to get in touch
Speaker 1: with I guess the only way to put it would
Speaker 1: be entities that are unseen or beyond the spectrum of
Speaker 1: our vision. Would you think that would be dangerous in
Speaker 1: any way? I mean, I imagine it would depend on
Speaker 1: what entities you're trying to contact. But I think that
Speaker 1: even you know, if you're not well versed in this,
Speaker 1: if you could make a mistake and you know, or
Speaker 1: the some of these entities may deceive you if you're
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, contact them. I don't know. What
Speaker 1: do you think about that?
Speaker 2: I think the foremost U let's start with the most
Speaker 2: important that's intention. What are your intentions? And as I said,
Speaker 2: if your intention is to serve your fellow man and
Speaker 2: a woman, and to serve the planet and serve life,
Speaker 2: you know, then you are my say perception of these things.
Speaker 2: Then you are protected by that intention. But these entities,
Speaker 2: you say, if you're hanging out with neo Nazis or
Speaker 2: if you're hanging out with is armists, of course that's
Speaker 2: not a good company to keep because that will influence
Speaker 2: you and they could even lure you into actions otherwise
Speaker 2: not in your reptoire. Just the same, if you contact
Speaker 2: some kin what they call the left hand part, you know,
Speaker 2: the dark part, you know, and contact entities that historically
Speaker 2: have been used for say, bad purposes, I think that
Speaker 2: could hurt your psyche because somehow the intention is the
Speaker 2: crook's here, because that gives you the company and the direction.
Speaker 2: So if you so, as long as you're intention is good,
Speaker 2: that's a talisman for you, that will protect you. But
Speaker 2: if you as attention is ego and power and that
Speaker 2: kind of things, you could easily I think, connect with
Speaker 2: destructive entities. Basically, if we go philosophically into this, you know,
Speaker 2: from the Indian tradition of advita, you know non duality,
Speaker 2: non dividedness. Basically it's just one being. The totality of
Speaker 2: being is one at the bottom, all entities we the dinosaurs,
Speaker 2: the spirit, the spirits, the ascended masters, whatever is basically
Speaker 2: part of say the unity deep down. That's avita. There's
Speaker 2: no non duality. So when you contact one aspect of
Speaker 2: that say basic reality, that be a spirit or that
Speaker 2: be a person, or that be an animal or whatever,
Speaker 2: somehow it's no different than to do your daily work.
Speaker 3: You know, it's.
Speaker 2: People I think tend to What's just to say, people
Speaker 2: place too much weight on the entities themselves. I think
Speaker 2: you should say, go for your own cultivated, your own
Speaker 2: good intentions, and then you will see which entities are
Speaker 2: drawn to you as just as say, if you participating
Speaker 2: in neo Nazia meetings or Islamist radicalization groups. You know,
Speaker 2: look what kind of people you're connecting with. It's the same.
Speaker 2: You know, go for the intention and the entities will
Speaker 2: be no problem as long as your entities are good.
Speaker 2: If you your intentions are bad, you the entities you
Speaker 2: connect with will also be tend to be bad.
Speaker 1: I think, how do you think modern day academia and
Speaker 1: science feels about, say, parapsychology. Do you think that they
Speaker 1: are becoming more open to these fields?
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course it's a mixed bag, and many things
Speaker 2: are not being discussed in.
Speaker 3: An open minded manner.
Speaker 2: But the basic phenomena we are talking about teleprity, clairvoyance, recognition, healing,
Speaker 2: and telekinesis psychokinesis, they are in fact discussed seriously. The
Speaker 2: most prestigious magazine journal of psychology in the world is
Speaker 2: called American Psychologists, and it's released by the American Psychological Association.
Speaker 3: APA.
Speaker 2: And in two thoy and eighteen in the May issue,
Speaker 2: there is an article it's called pera psychological phenomenon phenomena
Speaker 2: excuse me, the Experimental Evidence for Psychological Feminine Phenomena Review,
Speaker 2: and that's written by Professor sel Cardena, who has published
Speaker 2: about three hundred scientific articles. And when the most prestigious
Speaker 2: magazine for psychology in the world take in, say, an
Speaker 2: article in defense of these phenomena, of course it's taken seriously.
Speaker 2: So I would say, of course conventional psychologists are still
Speaker 2: much in the form of paradigm, but there is what
Speaker 2: the kind of avant garde psychology are taking these phenomena
Speaker 2: starting to take them quite seriously. And also because a
Speaker 2: study of the philosophy of mind and say, the theories
Speaker 2: of consciousness have evolved. For instance, quite a number of
Speaker 2: quantum physicists are interested in the implications of consciousness for physics.
Speaker 2: We can discuss some experiments that will illustrate that point.
Speaker 2: But in one physics though, quite a number of people
Speaker 2: interested in consciousness. So as I said, basically, this phenomena
Speaker 2: all the paranormal phenomena are derivatives of an expanded vision
Speaker 2: for what is consciousness. So when the quantum physicists and also,
Speaker 2: as I said, this very well renowned, prestigious psychological journal
Speaker 2: print articles in defense of this expanded consciousness, I think
Speaker 2: it fair to say at least they are starting to
Speaker 2: take it seriously.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned some quantum physics experiments that we could cite.
Speaker 1: I know that there are some exciting developments when it
Speaker 1: comes to quantum physics and looking into paranormal phenomenon and
Speaker 1: the connections there. So what are some of these experiments
Speaker 1: that we can look at.
Speaker 2: I will start with an early experiment is very simple,
Speaker 2: but very say basic, if you say, just make it simple.
Speaker 2: If you collide to electrons. From that collision, it will
Speaker 2: it will produce two photons, which particles, which is particles
Speaker 2: of light, and that they are called twin photons because
Speaker 2: they were born at the same moment. And those twin
Speaker 2: photons from this collision, they will hurtle off in a
Speaker 2: directly opposite direction. And the strange thing is if you
Speaker 2: measure them, say ten kilometers apart, and one of them
Speaker 2: is then going up, the other one will go down
Speaker 2: and if one of going to the right, the other
Speaker 2: one will go left, and the first one go down,
Speaker 2: the second one will go up, So they mirror each
Speaker 2: other even if they are basically totally split apart, and
Speaker 2: as I said, many many kilometers and even at the
Speaker 2: opposite sides of the universe, they will still behave in
Speaker 2: this connected way. That is what they call non locality.
Speaker 2: And that is not a theory that is demonstrated in
Speaker 2: at least three laboratories. So we know this to be true.
Speaker 2: And if we can see that photos are connected in
Speaker 2: this way, and they are and as a unity, even
Speaker 2: if for all common sense purposes are totally divided, that
Speaker 2: might perhaps also say something about the nature of consciousness,
Speaker 2: because if they are connected or big distances, why not
Speaker 2: consciousness is connected over big distances as well. I will
Speaker 2: not say this experiment proofs that consciousness is but connected
Speaker 2: in that same way, but at least it opens up
Speaker 2: because it says that our normal idea about space is
Speaker 2: totally say, beyond the pale. Really, it's demonstrably, demonstrably wrong
Speaker 2: to to view space the common sense way. So and
Speaker 2: that that is a very important experiment that was made
Speaker 2: first by a guy Johann Klauser Johann Claouser in he
Speaker 2: was at Berkeley, and ten years later done in a
Speaker 2: more famous and more say splendid way by a French
Speaker 2: French physicist called Alan what is called aspect aspect. He
Speaker 2: became quite famous for this experiment. So it's sometimes just
Speaker 2: referred to as the aspect experiment, and so that this
Speaker 2: is a basic quantum physic experiment showing that our normal
Speaker 2: idea about space is totally wrong really and might have
Speaker 2: a big implication for consciousness. Also, there has been done
Speaker 2: experiments with what they called double split experiment, and if
Speaker 2: you fire electric it's done in a different version, but
Speaker 2: you fire electrons to a wall and you have to
Speaker 2: say slots or splits in that wall. It seems to
Speaker 2: be able to somehow, by intentions steering how many or
Speaker 2: at least to direct the stream of electrons if they
Speaker 2: should go more to the right split or to the
Speaker 2: left split. As I said, there are many experiments here,
Speaker 2: but that is one of them that your intention somehow
Speaker 2: seem to be statistically significantly influencing the stream of electrons.
Speaker 2: And that would be of course a kind of telekinesis
Speaker 2: or psychokinesis and mind over matter in a way. And
Speaker 2: the in Raidan is quite famous us for having doing
Speaker 2: and presented some of these experiments.
Speaker 1: And when you're looking at consciousness, when I when I
Speaker 1: look at it, and I'm looking at things like telekinesis,
Speaker 1: I can go back to that everything, even you know,
Speaker 1: inanimate objects may have some kind of consciousness. If we
Speaker 1: look at telekinesis in the way the ability to connect
Speaker 1: with these objects and even move them, it has to be,
Speaker 1: you know, I believe maybe connected to some kind of
Speaker 1: consciousness frequency. I don't know. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: What do you think is happening with this telekinesis.
Speaker 3: Very interesting phenomenon it was.
Speaker 2: Let me say that many para psychologists say that they
Speaker 2: do not have yet theory that fully.
Speaker 3: Account for these phenomena.
Speaker 2: So many para psychologists will confess that some think they
Speaker 2: have a good explanation. For instance, there's a German psychologist.
Speaker 2: He's doctor in psychology and his daughter doctor in physics, Waltavon. Look,
Speaker 2: I do he thinks of this is as a kind
Speaker 2: of what systems theory, that everybody is connecting connected to
Speaker 2: everything else.
Speaker 3: And if you say, do.
Speaker 2: Some action in one part of the system, it will
Speaker 2: via quite say complex change of causality influence everything else
Speaker 2: in the system. Really, so that is his take on it.
Speaker 2: And he is a doctor in physics and doctor in
Speaker 2: psychology and quite famous. It's not famous in the anglosphere,
Speaker 2: the English speaking world, but in Germany he has been
Speaker 2: too many television programs. And he also had an office
Speaker 2: at the university or connected with the university at Freiburg,
Speaker 2: where you could come to him if you had problems.
Speaker 2: Feel poltoguist. You know, you're coming home and your furniture
Speaker 2: is turned upside down and the wild chaos, and you
Speaker 2: go to the insurance company and say, please.
Speaker 3: Give me some.
Speaker 2: Compensation here because pologists have turned my flat upside down,
Speaker 2: and they will not believe you. But in general they
Speaker 2: might have believed you because what from look At was
Speaker 2: contacted in many such cases and gave say, convincing evidence
Speaker 2: to the authorities that these phenomena are really happening. And
Speaker 2: as I said, he explains this out his version of
Speaker 2: systems theory. It's quite complex, but people can check. He
Speaker 2: has some lectures on on on YouTube and also possible
Speaker 2: to find his website and all the things. But if
Speaker 2: you go back to what I said earlier, adwaita, perhaps
Speaker 2: there is a unity behind all this, and perhaps therefore
Speaker 2: our say division, we say mind and matter, but perhaps
Speaker 2: that's just our limited perspective, because behind mind, behind matter,
Speaker 2: there is this unity that was a calgust Young called
Speaker 2: Unus mundus from alchemical concepts, One World and Calgusta. Jung
Speaker 2: wrote a book together with famous physicist Wolfcom Pauley. It's
Speaker 2: called Synchronicity. And then Jung wrote an essay about psychological aspect,
Speaker 2: and Pauley wrote about the physical aspect. He won the
Speaker 2: Nobel Prize in physics in nineteen forty five, and he
Speaker 2: himself being great physicists, he himself had experienced lots of
Speaker 2: telekinetic phenomena, and so he knew from his own experience
Speaker 2: and written about this, that these phenomena are real. And
Speaker 2: he is very cautious. He was called the Consciousness of
Speaker 2: science because he was always very cautious and very critical
Speaker 2: of jumping to conclusions. But he said it would be
Speaker 2: very comforting if it behind the matter and mind was
Speaker 2: in fact this unity.
Speaker 3: So I feel somehow the.
Speaker 2: Best say suggested explanation, that there is a unity behind
Speaker 2: the mind and matter, and if you do activities, then
Speaker 2: in your mind you are really all so working deep
Speaker 2: downside on what lies behind the matter, and that might
Speaker 2: on occasions give strange phenomenon as a result.
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if this is along the same lines,
Speaker 1: but I've seen videos of g masters generating so much
Speaker 1: heat with their hands that they can actually set paper
Speaker 1: and stuff on fire. It's very, very fascinating. Now do
Speaker 1: you think this is kind of along the same lines
Speaker 1: as this SiGe phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I will not subscribe to everyone of course
Speaker 2: claiming they can do this, that they really can do.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: But to get back to this Vaultavon look at the
Speaker 2: German perp psachologists. He uses an example in fact, where
Speaker 2: a woman experiences small flames, you know, suddenly starting to
Speaker 2: show in her flat and that was a spontaneous, as
Speaker 2: kind of Poltugeist phenomenon. But Walter, look at you, do
Speaker 2: not think the spirits guys behind this. He felt it
Speaker 2: was because he's talked to this woman and he found
Speaker 2: that she was suffering from a pathological jealousy really, so
Speaker 2: he felt it was kind of external manifestation of her
Speaker 2: internal burning jealousy because very often this is phenomena as
Speaker 2: he was smiling, because they have very often symbolic representative function.
Speaker 2: So she was literally burning from jealousy, which manifested in
Speaker 2: small flames in her flat. Of course, theoretically speaking, you
Speaker 2: could imagine that Taichi master, having cultivated his say or
Speaker 2: her focus through many years of intense practice, would be
Speaker 2: able at will to produce some of these effects. I
Speaker 2: know it's claimed. I've seen some gi demonstrations that have
Speaker 2: been quite We have a guy in Denmark and I've
Speaker 2: seen in my hometown he demonstrated some scales really not
Speaker 2: the flame thing, but other things. But I don't know,
Speaker 2: because of course via film tricks and everything, you know,
Speaker 2: and people want to become famous and all that. So
Speaker 2: in principle it's possible, whether or not those claim to
Speaker 2: do it, it can and actually do it.
Speaker 1: I will not say now while we're talking about people
Speaker 1: who you know are a little fraudulent and want to
Speaker 1: be just become famous, there are Unfortunately, this kind of
Speaker 1: field is prevalent with those kind of people, especially when
Speaker 1: it comes to psychic phenomenon. Alkanesis all this this stuff
Speaker 1: because it is easy to fake these days especially with videos.
Speaker 1: But even if you have, you know, just a little
Speaker 1: bit of intuition, it's easy to kind of pull one
Speaker 1: over on people and you know, do jill in activity.
Speaker 1: So what's the best way that people can kind of
Speaker 1: discern what they're looking at here?
Speaker 2: That's of course very difficult because if the professional magicians,
Speaker 2: they are so clever.
Speaker 3: So but I would.
Speaker 2: I have always enjoyed magicians, you know, with stage magic.
Speaker 2: So I've been to lots and lots of performances with
Speaker 2: stage magician. I also read some theory. I'm not clever,
Speaker 2: of course, I'm not professional, far from it. But I
Speaker 2: also watched quite a lot of videos with magicians. There's
Speaker 2: an English guy he made quite furiory also in the US,
Speaker 2: Darren Brown. Lots of videos with him on YouTube, so
Speaker 2: people can check and you can somehow get a feel
Speaker 2: of and he's very impressive and convincing. So if the
Speaker 2: psychic does just the same tricks that you saw Darren
Speaker 2: Brown doing last night, of course you should be a
Speaker 2: bit cautious. But I would imagine people should also. You know,
Speaker 2: one of the most famous he's not really famous as
Speaker 2: a para psychologist, but he's a professor at Cornell University
Speaker 2: in psychology Darryl bem And he was convinced by statistics
Speaker 2: going to the statistics. You know, most people are not
Speaker 2: into statistics in the way he is. But after reading
Speaker 2: the through experiment experiment, he found that the statistics were
Speaker 2: so convincing that he somehow he was a skeptic. And
Speaker 2: he is also a magician state magician. So you can
Speaker 2: find some tricks with him on YouTube. So he knew
Speaker 2: all the tricks in the book really, but statistics from
Speaker 2: psychological sound experiments and those strict conditions, you know, controlled
Speaker 2: conditions in laborators convinced him, and he had went on
Speaker 2: to make his own experience and he published also a
Speaker 2: very famous article about these experiments is called Feeling the Future.
Speaker 2: And to make the short here just the nine experiments,
Speaker 2: with the most famous with fifty of his students demonstrating
Speaker 2: they were able to see on a screen which they
Speaker 2: were YouTube pictures, and there were were erotic pictures, and
Speaker 2: the student with a strong margin were able to say
Speaker 2: when there will appear an erotic picture on the screen.
Speaker 2: Of course, then you take the students to young people,
Speaker 2: you know and probably hopefully interested in erotics, you know,
Speaker 2: would have the antennas out for this kind of information,
Speaker 2: and them made a very good case for they were
Speaker 2: in fact able to to to detect the upcoming eroticism
Speaker 2: eroticism excuse my English.
Speaker 1: No, it's fine, okay, yeah, really interesting it is.
Speaker 2: And also obviously if you go back to this phenomena,
Speaker 2: if you think of them as you know, in primordal times,
Speaker 2: it would be very nice to know when the partner,
Speaker 2: a possible partner was around the corner, and also to
Speaker 2: detect danger. You know, so if you think these are
Speaker 2: part of our basic survival kit, it would be excellent
Speaker 2: way of using them to avoid danger to the people
Speaker 2: or lions or whatever, or find a suitable partner for you.
Speaker 2: So I think they will somehow. I write quite a
Speaker 2: lot about crisis teleprity in my book, and then you
Speaker 2: see that very often this phenomena kick they will kick
Speaker 2: in when there is danger around, and I think that's
Speaker 2: a kind of say alarm system from primordial times. Of course,
Speaker 2: there is a spiritual aspect of this as well. But
Speaker 2: as I said, if they have not, say, helped us,
Speaker 2: we would probably not be having them. So I feel
Speaker 2: also that this to realistic way of looking at these phenomena.
Speaker 2: It can be very helpful. As I said, there's a
Speaker 2: spiritual aspect connecting us to the bigger picture also, but
Speaker 2: we also are physical beings, you know, living in a
Speaker 2: world that can be dangerous sometimes and we need those
Speaker 2: little extra antennas and the information that can help us.
Speaker 1: It seems like our ancients probably had a much better
Speaker 1: understanding and maybe even better abilities when it came to this.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of researchers pointing at evidence
Speaker 1: that you know, our ancient ancestors did have these abilities
Speaker 1: and it was more prevalent and we kind of lost
Speaker 1: that over the ages. Is that something that you think
Speaker 1: is probably the case.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's probably the case. And you see
Speaker 2: that with the indigenous people, for instance, Tsami people North
Speaker 2: and Norway. They have a strong culture for these phenomena,
Speaker 2: you know, and that might be a genetics to some part,
Speaker 2: but also culture and lifestyle. You know, if you have
Speaker 2: a quiet lifestyle, then it's much more easy. If you's
Speaker 2: lots of TVs all around and cars honking, you know,
Speaker 2: and all that loud noise from the metropolis, then it
Speaker 2: will be difficult to to to to perceive those subtle
Speaker 2: sims from the SI field. And and also if you
Speaker 2: have a strong culture, the SAMI culture, you know, you
Speaker 2: then of course many of them are quite modern people also,
Speaker 2: you know, computer engineers and all that. But the traditional
Speaker 2: armi uh lifestyle, they would learn you to have regard
Speaker 2: and respect and to heed this phenomena, you know, and
Speaker 2: take it seriously, and they would not just dismiss this coincidence.
Speaker 3: And like that.
Speaker 2: And of course, as we said earlier in the program,
Speaker 2: talent and training, and if you are trained from your
Speaker 2: child to to to really listened into these frequencies here,
Speaker 2: it's much more say likely that you will developed competence
Speaker 2: in this field. So and if I could give you
Speaker 2: some perspective on this, because some people said it's just
Speaker 2: bad that we lost this that our answers had. But
Speaker 2: roder Steiner, this guy Austrian Esotery, he said, it's not bad.
Speaker 2: It's a part of our say, complete development as a species.
Speaker 2: Because if we are just connected with spiritual we will
Speaker 2: not take the material world seriously on its own premises.
Speaker 2: But we need as a species to learn mathematics, to
Speaker 2: learn the engineering arts and all these kind of things
Speaker 2: to master the physical on the physical premises, so Steiner
Speaker 2: felt it was. It was in fact useful and necessary
Speaker 2: even for a period of say, a couple of perhaps
Speaker 2: three or four or five thousand years, that we dive
Speaker 2: into the material world and learn how to master that world,
Speaker 2: and then we can from a kind of new perspective
Speaker 2: open up again to the more spiritual perspective.
Speaker 1: Y do you see that kind of happening now and
Speaker 1: kind of integrating both the scientific world and the world
Speaker 1: of occultism.
Speaker 2: I like to see that, I think yes. As I
Speaker 2: said that those quantum physics being in the most famous
Speaker 2: was this book The Tao of Physics by fret of Copra.
Speaker 2: He wrote it early in the seventies. But as I said,
Speaker 2: in this journal most presidious in the world on psychology,
Speaker 2: that they will print as an article defending the existence
Speaker 2: of these phenomena, it's quite yeah something really it speaks volumes.
Speaker 3: So I think so.
Speaker 2: And also these more green movements the in the different countries,
Speaker 2: you know, you you think more holistic about our place
Speaker 2: on Earth and even the Earth's place also in the
Speaker 2: cosmos astrophysics, and yeah, so so so I'm quite optimistic
Speaker 2: about this, but it's not a not a fast process.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. We live in fascinating times. I want
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about Nochian magic because it's
Speaker 1: it's very interesting to me. It's supposed to be I
Speaker 1: guess basically community communication with angels, right right, yes, could
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about, you know, the
Speaker 1: basics of the Nochian magic, I guess as much as
Speaker 1: you could break it down for us.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's a long were to start done.
Speaker 3: If we started in antiquy, you have you know, of course, in.
Speaker 2: The Jewish tradition you have a Moses here is the
Speaker 2: supreme revelator, you know, and and of course in Christianity
Speaker 2: you have Christ as the supreme revelator of God's will
Speaker 2: and so. But that was a tradition in Judaism where
Speaker 2: not Moses was the central figure, but rather Enoch, the
Speaker 2: patriarch from Old Testament. And it's written about Enoch that
Speaker 2: in the Old Testament that God took him and what
Speaker 2: does that mean? And the Jewish tradition, esoteric tradition, the Kabbalah,
Speaker 2: they will often see read it in the same way
Speaker 2: about as the tradition about the prophet Elijah, because it's
Speaker 2: written in the Old Testament that Elijah was taken up
Speaker 2: to having directly in a wagon with the fiery wheels,
Speaker 2: you know, in the like a storm of fire, taking
Speaker 2: him to heaven. That also Enoch was was.
Speaker 3: Was taken directly to heaven.
Speaker 2: Okay, but if Moses have to die on earth and
Speaker 2: be the dug buried like a normal man, and Enoch
Speaker 2: goes straight to heaven, probably Enoch has more you know,
Speaker 2: knowledge about having limitsed is then most of them.
Speaker 3: That was the thinking.
Speaker 2: So they became a tradition around the eno can also
Speaker 2: be became a tradition in antiquary how you could somehow
Speaker 2: journey to heaven't in there was some breeding exercises and
Speaker 2: also the recitation of angelic names. You found these traditions
Speaker 2: in Cumran, the kind of what you can say, kind
Speaker 2: of monastery where the Dead Sea scrolls are found. There
Speaker 2: you have riches. You know, you are citing the angels'
Speaker 2: names for a long time, and you have reading. You
Speaker 2: sit in a special what they called Elijah's position, you
Speaker 2: closed tone, like you're having your head between your legs,
Speaker 2: and you know, and of course if you sit like
Speaker 2: that and doing breeding exercises, and reciting these angelic mantras
Speaker 2: for hours and hours, something will happen to your consciousness,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: So there are lots of these.
Speaker 2: Visions from antiquary. It's it's called it's also part of
Speaker 2: the Christian tradition. Via Revelation of John, the last book
Speaker 2: of the New Testament, you can see John having these
Speaker 2: havingly visions also, so in not in tradition as a
Speaker 2: vision or tradition from antiquity.
Speaker 3: The more modern uh not. In magic.
Speaker 2: It goes back to to Elizabeth in England, where there
Speaker 2: was a famous mathematician and magician called John D. And
Speaker 2: John D is an extremely interesting figure. He is as
Speaker 2: I said that he was. He helped the British ship
Speaker 2: navigate on the Seven Seas, he made you know, stellar charts,
Speaker 2: and he well, he at least gave him the day
Speaker 2: for the coronation of a queen, Elizabeth the first, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's a t to make. And his seems to
Speaker 2: ask succeeded quite well because her reign was long and strong.
Speaker 2: But he had an assistant, and his name was Edward Kelly.
Speaker 2: And they say the spiritual communication between John D, the
Speaker 2: famous mathematician and magician, and the more say, not simple man,
Speaker 2: but you know he was not educated like John D.
Speaker 2: But he was very gifted. He could also have some
Speaker 2: prominent decides. But you know he is somehow transmitted messages
Speaker 2: from these angels. Uh and and de wrote and down
Speaker 2: and system made system out of them. And they received
Speaker 2: some tablets with names and figures and the numbers and so.
Speaker 2: So is supposedly coming directly from from from heaven. So
Speaker 2: there also is a long esoteric tradition forbidden knowledge with
Speaker 2: heavenly tablets that go back to to to to Babylon.
Speaker 2: Really so, but the modern version of Enochian magic is
Speaker 2: these tablets received by by Adver Kelly.
Speaker 3: And John D.
Speaker 2: And it has played a part in the occulture revival
Speaker 2: in modern times. For instance, Alexander Alistair Crowdy, he performed
Speaker 2: Inochian magic and you can even go to YouTube and
Speaker 2: they have recorded some of his Enochian chants and masses
Speaker 2: for the first ether, you know, and all these kind
Speaker 2: of things. I would say the tendency because basically it's
Speaker 2: a good tradition. You know, it's about knowing God and
Speaker 2: and and uh yeah, expanding your horizon to to to
Speaker 2: include the angels in your worldview, but regrettably it has
Speaker 2: become part of I would not say black tradition, but
Speaker 2: more great tradition. And even Crowley said you should be
Speaker 2: a bit careful about it. He mentioned an episode with
Speaker 2: things coming out of control. So it's become becoming a
Speaker 2: kind of you know, the magician's apprentice. Here you could
Speaker 2: perhaps connect to traditions. So I would not recommend starting
Speaker 2: with in magic unless you are very well versed in
Speaker 2: occult arts from other traditions, have a solid training from
Speaker 2: a sound lunch, you know, just doubling into it. I
Speaker 2: would not recommend it, but it's a powerful and interesting tradition.
Speaker 1: Now, as far as angels go, what is I guess
Speaker 1: your idea of what an angel is is. Do you
Speaker 1: think it is actually this celestial entity that exists beyond
Speaker 1: the spectrum of our vision, or more of just this
Speaker 1: conscious energy that kind of exists, or something else? What
Speaker 1: is your idea with an age?
Speaker 3: It's very difficult some people.
Speaker 2: As I said, my book is about teleparty clairvoyance and
Speaker 2: recognition and healing and psychogenesis telekinesis. That is the main thing.
Speaker 2: I talk a bit about spirits and angels in my book,
Speaker 2: but basically I will say, I do not know. So
Speaker 2: I wonder if my next book should be about angels.
Speaker 2: I've discussed this with a very famous magician really, you
Speaker 2: probably know him, Herbie Brannan. Yes, yes, he is also
Speaker 2: a novelist, fantasy novelist, being on the New York Times
Speaker 2: bestseller list, and so he is training and he'll be
Speaker 2: quite you know, high up in the order of this
Speaker 2: servants of the Light really, and he's written about these
Speaker 2: things and discussed it, and he was he was reluctant
Speaker 2: to give a kind of to commit himself to a
Speaker 2: perspective here. So I will not say that he said
Speaker 2: what he just said. The tradition holds that it is
Speaker 2: and a jelly, you know, heavenly beings and all that
Speaker 2: kind of things. But if again for the third time,
Speaker 2: go back to Advita, if the world basically is a unity,
Speaker 2: then also these angels will be part of that unity
Speaker 2: and would be a frequency in that unity, as I
Speaker 2: am a frequency.
Speaker 3: You have frequency.
Speaker 2: Dinosaur were frequencies, the Fisher frequencies, you know, the moon,
Speaker 2: the sun of frequencies in this big, big, big see
Speaker 2: cosmic concert. Really, perhaps that's the best approach to it.
Speaker 2: And if you approach them as a person, you will
Speaker 2: get personally answered, but from that frequency. But if it is,
Speaker 2: say an entity that can act on its own, I
Speaker 2: don't know that. It seems on some occasions that this
Speaker 2: will take action on their own, but perhaps it's more
Speaker 2: our own, you know, if it kind of echo if
Speaker 2: you relate to you say, people in the earlier the
Speaker 2: Viking tradition, they would say when they heard the thunder
Speaker 2: and the sort of lightning, it was thaw in a way.
Speaker 2: Of course the phenomenomena are real, but was it thaw
Speaker 2: behind this? Or of course it's energy, it's frequencies, but
Speaker 2: the personalization of it as thaw is that justified? Probably
Speaker 2: not what we meet as angels in the this same
Speaker 2: peronormal world. When you see a ghost going through or
Speaker 2: you know, some lights manifesting.
Speaker 3: Will that be a see a person? I do not know.
Speaker 2: It would be very interesting to find more about, and
Speaker 2: as I said, my next book might be about these things.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting.
Speaker 2: But just as I said, again, this non dualistic perspective
Speaker 2: I think can be very helpful because we tend to
Speaker 2: somehow absoluteize one level or one frequency or one plane
Speaker 2: of reality. Basically, I think it is a unity down there,
Speaker 2: so I'm more For instance, I am read the interview
Speaker 2: with Mahaeshi Maha Yogi, you know, the guy who brought
Speaker 2: transcendental meditation to the West, and he was asked about
Speaker 2: some of this and he said, of course, from his
Speaker 2: Indian tradition, you could say context some of these entities,
Speaker 2: you could freight to them.
Speaker 3: But why would you do that? Why wouldn't you.
Speaker 2: Go to the source of being true meditation? You know,
Speaker 2: that's the unity behind it. You know these entities could
Speaker 2: also have the whims you know, so why would you
Speaker 2: somehow give you itself in the hands to those entities?
Speaker 2: Why don't you go to the unlimited source behind all manifestation,
Speaker 2: true meditation. I think I kind of like that perspective.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, and I've actually spoken to a few
Speaker 1: guests about that very thing, reaching source, uh through meditation
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. Now, to close out earlier,
Speaker 1: you we were talking about how you were hopeful that
Speaker 1: mainstream science in academia is kind of catching up to
Speaker 1: these things and it's going to become more of a
Speaker 1: mainstream thing and not so woo woo of a topic.
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful for that too. And I do see a
Speaker 1: lot of that happening, you know, I see a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, even government agencies kind of looking into
Speaker 1: normal hotspots and things of that.
Speaker 2: Really, the release is sorry for interrupting you. With the
Speaker 2: release of the UFO your Dave as well, one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty four cases and it's was just one of
Speaker 2: them that could be accounted for in normal ways, conventional ways.
Speaker 2: So that leaves us to one hundred and forty three,
Speaker 2: uh a, un accounted for cases, and that came from
Speaker 2: the Pentagon.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, So it makes me, it makes me
Speaker 1: hopeful that you know, mainstream macademian science will possibly come
Speaker 1: around in one day all of this is just going
Speaker 1: to be you know, looked into as a normal part
Speaker 1: of our existence and we can have a better understanding
Speaker 1: of it, and hopefully that'll that will occur soon. What
Speaker 1: do you think that? Do you think that within the
Speaker 1: next few years or even our lifetime we may see
Speaker 1: more of this occurring?
Speaker 3: Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2: And let's just start with common experience. Statistics show that
Speaker 2: more than half of a grown up people will have
Speaker 2: experiences of say, celebrity and clevev oyance and that kind
Speaker 2: of phenomena. So so many people have these experiences. My
Speaker 2: mentor at the university told me the only the reason
Speaker 2: why it's not somehow taken more seriously, that is that
Speaker 2: has been the lack of as a what you can say,
Speaker 2: comprehensive theory that can make sense of these things. So
Speaker 2: as it's just verse one, Peter tells about one experience
Speaker 2: and Paul tells about another experience, so to get a
Speaker 2: unified understanding of the field. And therefore, in my very
Speaker 2: simple way, I launched the model of the mental internet.
Speaker 2: Ah okay, oh yes, when I think in so, I
Speaker 2: go to his Facebook page and then I can see
Speaker 2: what you've been doing lately, and so you know, so
Speaker 2: if you think of this like a mental internet. And
Speaker 2: I mentioned this very important article in American Psychologists, there
Speaker 2: are also two other articles in mainstream psychological journals in
Speaker 2: more recent times that somehow supports the impression that is
Speaker 2: just not a fluke or just the kind of hapic
Speaker 2: coincidence that this article reached the pages. So and also
Speaker 2: quantum physics the redefining of understanding, And I will mention
Speaker 2: also last yeah, the Nobel Price winner in physics, Roger Penrose.
Speaker 3: He is of.
Speaker 2: Course a physicist, but he is also a philosopher of mind,
Speaker 2: and I think it's about thirty years ago he wrote
Speaker 2: a book called The Emperor's New Mind and how he
Speaker 2: did not feel that a conventional theories about mind did
Speaker 2: account for how mind was created and working. And he
Speaker 2: has an American co worker, Stuart Hamroth, who is a
Speaker 2: nessiologist at the University of Arizona, and hammer Off has
Speaker 2: said that you can find interviews with him on YouTube.
Speaker 2: He feels that quantum physics will probably account for telepaty,
Speaker 2: and Sir Roger Panners, he said, has said in interview
Speaker 2: that he feels that see their model of consciousness allows
Speaker 2: for precognition. So when a Nobel Prize winner in physics
Speaker 2: can say such a thing, you know, then it's happened
Speaker 2: quite a lot. And we have as I said, well
Speaker 2: also some of them earlier wolfcom Pauli and mentioned who
Speaker 2: had experienced so much telekinesis in his own life, but
Speaker 2: this was quite recently. He won the Nobel Prize last year.
Speaker 2: And and as I said, Stuart Hamrock defended telepathy, uh
Speaker 2: saying it's probably based on non locality. So yes, I'm
Speaker 2: quite hopeful about that. But I used to quote Max Plunk,
Speaker 2: who also was a pioneer in quantum theory. He said,
Speaker 2: funeral progresses, science progresses funeral by funeral. So yes, so
Speaker 2: it sounds a bit gruesome, But I think the old
Speaker 2: researcher have to more or less die out because people
Speaker 2: are identified with the paradigm.
Speaker 3: They have.
Speaker 2: Tenured yes, they have scholarships, they have brands, you know,
Speaker 2: they have a lots of books. They have identified say
Speaker 2: their lives work with this old paradigm. So I think
Speaker 2: when that is somehow just peacefully dying away because of time,
Speaker 2: then it will be much more easy to reformulate a
Speaker 2: new paradigm for consciousness what we see in quantum physics,
Speaker 2: in philosophy of mind, and also in some mainstream psychological journals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're definitely living in exciting times. There is some
Speaker 1: great things happening, some concerning things, but all very fascinating
Speaker 1: at the same time. And ter thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on tonight. Before you go, let everyone know
Speaker 1: where they can find a short history of nearly everything paranormal.
Speaker 3: Here it is.
Speaker 2: There is a beautiful povo. I think we worked several
Speaker 2: months to get it right. They can come to Amazon.
Speaker 2: That's quite simple. My name Tay Simonson, and the book
Speaker 2: a short history on everything paranormal. And I will use
Speaker 2: the opportunity to say it has received two awards in
Speaker 2: the US. It has received the Pair of Psychological Book
Speaker 2: Award and also received a Silver Nautilus Award. So it
Speaker 2: is an award winning book and also recommended by the
Speaker 2: greatest voice in psychology pair psychologists. Today, I think it
Speaker 2: will be Dean Rayden and also Jeffrey Mislove, Stanley Cripnan
Speaker 2: and other great guys.
Speaker 3: You know, I am.
Speaker 2: A popularized they are the researchers. I am trying to
Speaker 2: somehow connect those great guys with more, say common folks.
Speaker 2: So I hope I able to present things in a
Speaker 2: funny and what is called approachable manner.
Speaker 1: Yes, very good, Terry, Thank you so much. Again. That
Speaker 1: was fantastic information and there's so much more we could
Speaker 1: talk about. So I'd love to have you back on
Speaker 1: in the future.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I would love to come back later also,
Speaker 3: so thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: That's great.
Speaker 1: All right, Well until next time, everyone, have an excellent
Speaker 1: evening and we'll see you again tomorrow. Night Tonight. My
Speaker 1: guest is JP hay He is a researcher and writer
Speaker 1: with an interest in unidentified aerial phenomenon and the mysteries
Speaker 1: through a balanced approach and mindset. He is also the
Speaker 1: national director of MUFON and Mauritius. He considers esotericism, spirituality,
Speaker 1: and science to be to all be right tools and
Speaker 1: lenses for a better understanding of the layers of reality
Speaker 1: that surround and interact with us.
Speaker 3: JP.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 4: How you doing, hey, Chris.
Speaker 5: Thank you that was a nice introduction. Thank you very
Speaker 5: much for that. It's good to be back with you.
Speaker 5: I think it's been about just over a year since
Speaker 5: we did a catch up on the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been way too long. It's great to see
Speaker 1: you again. And I have to tell you, ever since
Speaker 1: we met at the twenty twenty UFO Mega Con in Laughlin,
Speaker 1: which we were actually talking about a little bit, you've
Speaker 1: become such an amazing friend and colleague, and you were
Speaker 1: actually one of the first people that I contacted when
Speaker 1: I had my first contact experience, which we're also just
Speaker 1: talking about. So I want to thank you for being
Speaker 1: there and helping me better understand my experiences as well
Speaker 1: as all the other extraordinary phenomenon that we've been discussing
Speaker 1: and you know, attempting to understand together since since the
Speaker 1: last time we spoke, and I'd love to hear have
Speaker 1: you had any more profound, like unexplained experiences our sightings
Speaker 1: since the last time we talked.
Speaker 5: Chris, Well, just to respond to your thanks, no need
Speaker 5: to thank me. It's a pleasure and a duty. And
Speaker 5: we're here to you know, support each other because there's
Speaker 5: so few coordinates in the public sphere, which we're going
Speaker 5: to address shortly in working this out, apart from the
Speaker 5: kind of documentary trail and then the conference trail of
Speaker 5: witnesses and experiences and such like. So you know, we're
Speaker 5: all here to kind of help each other and not
Speaker 5: judge one another. And your experiences were incredible and absolutely
Speaker 5: commensurate with a lot of the cases that have been
Speaker 5: reported by you know, reliable witnesses. So you know, keep
Speaker 5: keep keep vigilant and document everything, and you know, just
Speaker 5: try to relax, don't don't get to overthink things because
Speaker 5: it's it's bigger than our minds. Let's let's be honest.
Speaker 5: As for me, yes, I've had some extremely weird experiences,
Speaker 5: maybe less than I have in recent years, but then
Speaker 5: I've been less engaged with the subject because of the
Speaker 5: you know, the lockdowns that have been happening over here
Speaker 5: in Mauritius in the Indian Ocean, because frankly, you know,
Speaker 5: you're with a family to support and professional life to manage.
Speaker 5: You're basically inside working and doing additional jobs that you
Speaker 5: wouldn't normally have to do. But that doesn't mean I
Speaker 5: haven't had, you know, some incredible experiences I have. I mean,
Speaker 5: during the first lockdown in last year, I was on
Speaker 5: the phone or doing a conference with Johnny Enoch and
Speaker 5: Harry Challenger, the head of the Flying Saucer Review, and
Speaker 5: we were talking about contact and contact protocols that will
Speaker 5: need to probably be drafted and looked at. If you know,
Speaker 5: if ever there is a more kind of grassroots open
Speaker 5: scenario that ever takes place. And it's how you know,
Speaker 5: at one time that would have sounded ridiculous that, you know,
Speaker 5: when we have the Office of the Director of National
Speaker 5: Intelligence that the Pentagon sending us a report on the
Speaker 5: twenty fifth of June this year, we need to start
Speaker 5: thinking about these things in a sort of mature and
Speaker 5: you know, organized way, a bit like a United Nations
Speaker 5: outside of mechanics of government, because you know, nothing is
Speaker 5: happening there. So anyway, we were having a discussion, and
Speaker 5: you know, Harry's the head of the Flying Saucer Review.
Speaker 5: No sooner had I come off the phone. It was
Speaker 5: late at night, because we're three to four hours ahead
Speaker 5: here in Mauritius. I went upstairs to get ready for bed,
Speaker 5: and I'm brushing my teeth in the bathroom and the
Speaker 5: windows open because it's like the summertime here, it's very hot,
Speaker 5: and an enormous I got to say, it was just
Speaker 5: an enormous disc that looked a bit like the front
Speaker 5: section of the starship Enterprise from Star Trek. It literally
Speaker 5: just appeared, stayed in the sky for a few seconds,
Speaker 5: and then disappeared. But it was like a transistor switch
Speaker 5: that was kind of going up and down. It was
Speaker 5: like phasing in and out of reality. And it happened
Speaker 5: about two or three times, and I just thought, is
Speaker 5: this is this trickery on, you know, on the mine
Speaker 5: because I'm talking to Johnny, talking to Harry, he's the
Speaker 5: head of the Flying Saucer Review. Is this just something
Speaker 5: operating in my subconscious like the kind of culium concept
Speaker 5: of projecting consciousness into reality and getting a feedback. So anyway,
Speaker 5: that was during the first lockdown, and that was pretty amazing. Otherwise,
Speaker 5: I've seen, you know, quite a few objects just kind
Speaker 5: of flying over me overhead where I live, just going
Speaker 5: for walks in the evening. It seems to be very symbolic,
Speaker 5: like you'll have several appear in a very short space
Speaker 5: of time, and they might intersect and cross each other
Speaker 5: perfectly as you're walking overhead, as if they're talking about
Speaker 5: cardinal points and north and south, and you know, these
Speaker 5: have meanings in their own right in the esoteric sciences
Speaker 5: and all the rest. So yeah, there's been a lot
Speaker 5: going on, and I believe that it's better to have
Speaker 5: quality than quantity and try to actually see if they're
Speaker 5: a meaning behind it that you can actually connect to.
Speaker 5: But often it boggles the mind. And that's okay too,
Speaker 5: you know, we shouldn't try and over analyze things like
Speaker 5: I was saying too earlier. So yeah, it's been quite
Speaker 5: an interesting and challenging couple of years. And you know
Speaker 5: what was strangers is that we met up in Laughlin
Speaker 5: at the twenty twenty UFO Mega Con and no sooner
Speaker 5: did I get back to Mauritius. The lockdown started within
Speaker 5: a couple of weeks, so it was quite lucky really
Speaker 5: to get back and be with my family again.
Speaker 4: So yeah, interesting couple of years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely has been. And tonight we're going to
Speaker 1: be talking a little bit. You have a very interesting
Speaker 1: report from the nineties from France, right, it's like a
Speaker 1: UAP report from the nineties that they did long before
Speaker 1: we even thought about doing any uapeer report. So that's
Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking a little bit about tonight.
Speaker 1: But you were just talking about, you know, how everything
Speaker 1: has been, you know, a pretty profound few years, and
Speaker 1: with these experiences that we were discussing earlier, we're talking
Speaker 1: about how it comes along with kind of like a
Speaker 1: new level of not only understanding, but intuition and even
Speaker 1: sometimes new abilities after you've had your first contact experience.
Speaker 1: And I was talking to my guests last night about this,
Speaker 1: and it seems that this is across the board with
Speaker 1: contact ease and experiencers. Once they've had this initial contact,
Speaker 1: something changes in their physiology and their consciousness to where
Speaker 1: something opens up, even with paranormal experiences sometimes, So that's
Speaker 1: very interesting. What do you think is actually going on
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with you, Chris.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's how happen to me personally, whether people
Speaker 5: believe choose to believe that or not.
Speaker 4: I know it has.
Speaker 5: And it's interesting that you mentioned the word paranormal, because
Speaker 5: we're going to do a little kind of canter through
Speaker 5: this recent Pentagon report of June this year and compare
Speaker 5: and contrast it to what was a real UAP report
Speaker 5: from France and a military think tank, and they actually
Speaker 5: include the concepts of the paranormal and they say, we're
Speaker 5: not going to deny it, but we can't prove its
Speaker 5: veracity either. It's far more you know, let's say, European
Speaker 5: and open minded and genuine, intellectually honest about the subject
Speaker 5: compared to this very closed report that comes from the Pentagon.
Speaker 5: But you know, I think that there's so much of
Speaker 5: existence that's going on beyond visible light. So you know,
Speaker 5: when we're having well, when these experiences are happening, we
Speaker 5: don't fairy understand what we're being exposed to. I mean
Speaker 5: that some of the cases that this French report deals with,
Speaker 5: for example, deals with the immobilization or freezing of witnesses,
Speaker 5: and you know, we could try and explain that through
Speaker 5: you know, the paranormal, but it's also potentially microwaves. So
Speaker 5: there is this, I believe, scientific basis to the changes
Speaker 5: that we're experiencing, whether it's a deeper sense of intuition
Speaker 5: or clear cognisance which just means knowing without knowing why,
Speaker 5: or clear sentience and feelings and all the rest of it.
Speaker 5: This is a this is a commonly reported aspect to
Speaker 5: the phenomena. It's happened to me, it's happened to you,
Speaker 5: and I also I try to stay objective about it
Speaker 5: and you know, understand what has happened. So yeah, I
Speaker 5: think that it's valid. I think it's based in science,
Speaker 5: and I think that science and as you know, spirituality overlap.
Speaker 5: They're basically different languages describing the same thing. Perhaps, So
Speaker 5: that's that's my take on it. And what was what
Speaker 5: was amazing to read in this let's say, a real
Speaker 5: report from France is that it's it's taking all these
Speaker 5: things into account and uh, you know this, this this
Speaker 5: was put together by a bunch of serious researchers and
Speaker 5: led by a general from you know, the the Institute
Speaker 5: of Higher Studies of National Defense. And it was also
Speaker 5: written by a division or air division leaderal or General
Speaker 5: Dennis Letti of the French Air Force. So you know,
Speaker 5: I think that the military and the alphabet world of
Speaker 5: agencies are very aware of these things. I mean, there
Speaker 5: was a CIA report, and the CIA is an interesting
Speaker 5: alphabet agency that will touch upon, particularly in respect of
Speaker 5: this O. D n I report from the Pentagon and
Speaker 5: its absence in this report.
Speaker 4: It speaks to me, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: Now, with this French UAP report, could you give just
Speaker 1: a little bit of background how it came about, what
Speaker 1: was the year it came about, and you mentioned who
Speaker 1: was involved with it.
Speaker 4: Absolutely sure.
Speaker 5: So, I mean this report is by what was called
Speaker 5: the COMMITA Committee, and you know it's it's completely in French,
Speaker 5: and I'm bilingual in French and English, and you know
Speaker 5: the main language in Mauritius is French, so you know
Speaker 5: I have to speak it and read it and write it,
Speaker 5: but I also speak English here with those that can.
Speaker 5: So this is a report from the COMITA, which means
Speaker 5: the Committee de tu DA, which means the Committee of
Speaker 5: In Depth Military Studies. It's a military think tank and
Speaker 5: it's basically a report that was comprised of experts from
Speaker 5: this higher Institute of Defense National Defense Studies. It was
Speaker 5: chaired by a chap called General Norla and he was
Speaker 5: the former head of the Air Force in France during
Speaker 5: the I believe in the seventies or eighties. And as
Speaker 5: I mentioned, the committee was presided by General and active
Speaker 5: General Denis Letti of the Air Force. And I mean
Speaker 5: this report was written compiled over three years, Chris. It's
Speaker 5: quite a substantial report. It was written between ninety six
Speaker 5: and nineteen ninety nine. There are approximately sixteen members or
Speaker 5: contributors to the report, so yeah, three years of hard
Speaker 5: work and amazingly, this military think tank based in Paris
Speaker 5: decided when the report was done that they were just
Speaker 5: going to hand it to the French Prime Minister Monsieur
Speaker 5: Leonell Josspack in ninety nine at the time, but it
Speaker 5: was without any requests from the Prime Minister himself or mandate,
Speaker 5: so there was no official convocation. But the military said,
Speaker 5: you know what, this is actually happening. We need to
Speaker 5: do this report and whether you like it or not,
Speaker 5: mainstream government, we're going to give you this report. And predictably,
Speaker 5: there was no official reaction from the government, who are
Speaker 5: you know, relatively clueless compared to the military who have
Speaker 5: been compiling this. So the report is basically entitled you
Speaker 5: just speak in English, but it's basically UFOs and defense.
Speaker 5: What must we prepare for question mark? So it's an
Speaker 5: open question. And this report is really it's one hundred
Speaker 5: and sixteen pages long. It's substantial compared to this you know,
Speaker 5: Pentagon report of effectively six pages of nothing. Well, there
Speaker 5: are things, and some things are hidden, and it's mature.
Speaker 5: It's a logical and transparent review that's basically put into
Speaker 5: three parts and then has a conclusion on French and
Speaker 5: foreign cases that have taken place over sixty years. And
Speaker 5: it does look at national defense, but it's also looking
Speaker 5: at the social and cultural implications, which obviously an educational
Speaker 5: aspects that go hand in hand, you know, which was encouraging.
Speaker 5: So what we're seeing here is a much more holistic
Speaker 5: review compared to the US Pentagon one of twenty fifth
Speaker 5: of June of this year that's purely based in the
Speaker 5: context of threats, which means budget. So yeah, importantly, I
Speaker 5: guess what I need to really start by saying on
Speaker 5: this French military think tank report is that it confirms
Speaker 5: the physical reality of UFOs, and it does go as
Speaker 5: far as to say that there is a strong extraterrestrial
Speaker 5: hypothesis that is the most probable and credible explanation, which
Speaker 5: you don't get at all. Absolutely nothing mentioned deliberately so
Speaker 5: in the Ode and I Pentagon Report. What was amazing,
Speaker 5: Chris was that when this report was published and given
Speaker 5: to the Prime Minister of France in ninety nine, there
Speaker 5: was minimal to no media attention at all, despite you know,
Speaker 5: this think tank being in charge of national defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this until you mentioned it to
Speaker 1: me when we were talking about doing this show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but this is it.
Speaker 5: There's so much media frenzy around this Pentagon report that
Speaker 5: tells us nothing compared to this amazingly in depth and
Speaker 5: you know, cerebral report from France, and it didn't appear
Speaker 5: in the Figuarau or Lamonde, which are the two kind
Speaker 5: of national newspapers still and obviously even more relevant back
Speaker 5: in the nineties where you know, there wasn't so much
Speaker 5: the you know, the internet as we have today. But
Speaker 5: it's it's an impressive document and I think we'll just
Speaker 5: go over the kind of key points, but you know,
Speaker 5: that the general who chaired this this committee think tank
Speaker 5: says it's not just about a pure academic study. He
Speaker 5: says problems, the concrete problems are posed and it's not
Speaker 5: only civil or military pilots that are involved and that
Speaker 5: need some kind of response based on this report in
Speaker 5: terms of action, it has a much wider implication in
Speaker 5: society and which is totally what we don't see with
Speaker 5: the Pentagon report. And even in the kind of preamble
Speaker 5: it's saying, you know, we envisage all kinds of hypotheses
Speaker 5: on the origin of these UFOs and in particular and
Speaker 5: it highlights the extraterrestrial explanation and it basically there was
Speaker 5: about twenty contributors to this report, all highly respected, linked
Speaker 5: to the military scientists and all the rest, and it's
Speaker 5: really impressive. And what actually what I learned from reading
Speaker 5: this report page to page, all one hundred and sixteen
Speaker 5: pages of it, is that the French UFO study and
Speaker 5: reports pre date the American US Study of UFOs, which
Speaker 5: began officially around Roswell in June or sorry July of
Speaker 5: nineteen forty seven. But there were cases that were mentioned
Speaker 5: in the twenties of suits you know, standing behind scientists
Speaker 5: studying recovered craft back in the twenties, but Roswell was
Speaker 5: really the kind of the barometer at the time. And
Speaker 5: then moving into Project blue Book, and I think I
Speaker 5: need to mention Blue Book a little bit later on
Speaker 5: and how it links to the Pentagon Report that came
Speaker 5: out in June of this year.
Speaker 4: So this French.
Speaker 5: Report says that you know, it's basically feeding the Institute
Speaker 5: of High Studies in National Defense as to what's actually
Speaker 5: going on and the kind of the auspices of the
Speaker 5: organization have changed since the nineties, but it still exists
Speaker 5: and it's part of this. It links into the French
Speaker 5: Space Agency too, So it is a serious report. It's
Speaker 5: very well structured. It goes over cases in France and
Speaker 5: in abroad, and I'm just going to touch on a
Speaker 5: few of them because they're amazing military and civil pilots
Speaker 5: in France who you know, were flying fighter craft jets
Speaker 5: and objects were just buzzing them or cutting them up
Speaker 5: in front of their in front of their jets and
Speaker 5: then going you know, over the over their aircraft which
Speaker 5: are going at great speed, a mirage for back in
Speaker 5: the late seventies. And then sitting behind the exhaust of
Speaker 5: the fighter jet, so absolutely amazing, you know, green glowing
Speaker 5: objects that easily outran these fighter jets back in the day.
Speaker 5: A case of Air France, the national air carrier of France,
Speaker 5: where unknown objects were just crossing the aircraft. And what's
Speaker 5: interesting is that in this particular case with the Air
Speaker 5: France jets I believe in the seventies, it talks about
Speaker 5: a lenticular shaped object and it's very very similar in
Speaker 5: description to what we know as the gimbal, which was
Speaker 5: this kind of bell shaped lenticular shaped object that we
Speaker 5: see from the USS NIMTS footage or gun fighter jet
Speaker 5: footage from the USSNMICS in two thousand and four, which
Speaker 5: made the you know, New York Times back in twenty.
Speaker 4: Seventeen, et cetera.
Speaker 5: So you know, it deals with some of these French cases,
Speaker 5: it deals with cases in the UK and says that
Speaker 5: we are aware of the fact that it's not just
Speaker 5: happening in France. There was a case in Lackenheath in
Speaker 5: nineteen fifty six in the UK. Again a military fighter jet,
Speaker 5: a venom in this case that was just buzzing pilots
Speaker 5: for about ten minutes a case, you know cases in
Speaker 5: the US again in the late fifties, and also really
Speaker 5: seminal case that took place in Tehran in Iran, which
Speaker 5: is a famous case. It's one of the most I
Speaker 5: would say, you know, useful cases because it's just so
Speaker 5: well documented. And that took place in Tehran or over
Speaker 5: Tehran in nineteen seventy six in a phantom jet and
Speaker 5: this this UFO basically disabled the weaponry of this fighter
Speaker 5: jet and as soon as the aircraft disengaged, everything came
Speaker 5: back online. I mean, this is very commonly reported. They
Speaker 5: cover cases from Russia in the nineties and you know,
Speaker 5: managed to get declassified documents related to a general Maltsev and.
Speaker 4: Spoke about that.
Speaker 5: These documents spoke about are kind of an intercept that
Speaker 5: happened with US Mira sorry Russian mirages.
Speaker 4: They're jets.
Speaker 5: To study UFOs that were just sitting stationary in the
Speaker 5: sky Argentina in nineteen ninety seven are boeing seven to seven.
Speaker 4: I mean, it just the list is endless.
Speaker 5: But there is a case that they deal with a
Speaker 5: for me, it's a famous case that took place in
Speaker 5: France in a beautiful little area in the southeast called
Speaker 5: Valensul and you may have heard of this case, Chris.
Speaker 5: I mean they the National Police or the Gendarmes geen
Speaker 5: Darmrie Nationale as they call it in France, investigated this
Speaker 5: where basically a farmer, a kind of a lavender field
Speaker 5: farmer in this region of France. If you google it,
Speaker 5: you just see endless miles of lavender fields, beautiful and
Speaker 5: this farmer is just getting up earlier and early in
Speaker 5: the morning and he walks out into the field and
Speaker 5: there are these two little men, I suppose, like small
Speaker 5: grays with a tic tac like craft sat behind them
Speaker 5: in the background, and they're collecting some of the lavender
Speaker 5: leaves from the plants, and they see him and they
Speaker 5: just calmly turn around and enter the craft through a
Speaker 5: door that just opens. But he's paralyzed. He can't move,
Speaker 5: he's literally been rendered immobile. But he can move his eyes,
Speaker 5: he can breathe, he can think, but he physically can't
Speaker 5: move until they get into the craft, this tic tac,
Speaker 5: which then turns to the vertical and just shoots up
Speaker 5: into the sky. And this is a famous case that
Speaker 5: took place in July of nineteen sixty five. And this
Speaker 5: isn't a freaking you know, French military think tank reports,
Speaker 5: and it was seriously studied by the like I said,
Speaker 5: the National Police of France.
Speaker 4: A huge get a.
Speaker 5: Large inquiry of quality that took place on this affair
Speaker 5: and it left, you know, traces in the ground and
Speaker 5: you know, amazing. Another one in the southern area of.
Speaker 4: France, Provence.
Speaker 5: Provence is the there's a beautiful green region in the south,
Speaker 5: very warm. And this one took place in the year
Speaker 5: I was born, in plain daylight in nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 5: and it was a got to say it, double kind
Speaker 5: of t shaped tea saucer, flying saucer object that just
Speaker 5: landed in somebody's garden.
Speaker 4: Amazing stuff.
Speaker 5: So there, it's the complete antithesis to this Pentagon report.
Speaker 1: Now I have to ask, out of all of those profound,
Speaker 1: amazing sightings and cases that they have in that report,
Speaker 1: how many would demonstrate that these whatever we're dealing with
Speaker 1: are a genuine threat.
Speaker 5: This is the thing, Chris, I mean, it doesn't talk
Speaker 5: about threats. It says it's always possible. But you know,
Speaker 5: if there was a genuine threat, such as an invasion,
Speaker 5: for example, it would have already happened.
Speaker 1: Well, even you know, engaging with even engaging with one
Speaker 1: of our fighter pilots, are you know, attacking back if
Speaker 1: we happened to engage with them? You know, is there
Speaker 1: is there anything of that nature in any of these.
Speaker 5: Reports They mentioned the possibility, but they each mention of this,
Speaker 5: they say it's highly unlikely, because it is highly unlikely
Speaker 5: logically it would have already happened. And what was really
Speaker 5: interesting about this report is a clear suspicion of the
Speaker 5: US and the authorities in the US in that they
Speaker 5: even talk about, you know, the General Twining Air Material
Speaker 5: Command that surrounded a load of UFO appearances in the
Speaker 5: late forties after Roswell, and that the French respect the
Speaker 5: recovered craft actually happened. There may have been more than
Speaker 5: one craft around Roswell, as we know, So they're highly suspicious.
Speaker 5: You know, they're smart. They say that, look, our French
Speaker 5: cases officially pre date your US cases, but you're probably
Speaker 5: not telling us about them. In the US, they look
Speaker 5: at propulsion, the propulsion systems, try to explain what they
Speaker 5: are in a mature and open way. They even talk
Speaker 5: about the fact that when these craft or beings or
Speaker 5: objects are appearing, people's car engines are stopping, and they say, well,
Speaker 5: this could be microwaves, a bit like when that chat
Speaker 5: the farmer was immobilized in the field in the lavender
Speaker 5: field in Valenceaul.
Speaker 4: Like I talked about.
Speaker 5: So they take a really balanced view and they say, look,
Speaker 5: even parapp psychology, this paranormal explanation, it can't.
Speaker 4: Be ruled out.
Speaker 5: And it even goes as far to say, look, only
Speaker 5: scientific hypotheses such as you know, hidden government technology or
Speaker 5: secret technology from special access projects is impossible to sustain,
Speaker 5: especially for cases in the last ten years, in other words,
Speaker 5: from nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety seven. And the
Speaker 5: most likely explanation is extraterrestrial. You know, they're dealing with
Speaker 5: this face to face without any problem at all, and
Speaker 5: they say, look, you know, we need to understand the
Speaker 5: propulsion systems because we need to decide whether we're able
Speaker 5: to travel to the stars and set up our own earth,
Speaker 5: you know, human colonies to survive. I mean, this isn't
Speaker 5: a military report. Incredible. It even says that you know, what,
Speaker 5: if it is extra terrestrial, maybe they're people that originally
Speaker 5: or beings from Earth that migrated from Earth and maybe
Speaker 5: settled in the asteroid Belt or other planets around our
Speaker 5: Solar system, and that can't be excluded either.
Speaker 4: I like the fact that they deal with the the.
Speaker 5: Whitewash of the conclusion on Project blue Book. And as
Speaker 5: you know, you and others know that Project blue Book
Speaker 5: was basically this usafour study between nineteen forty seven to
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty nine to analyze all these UFO sightings. But
Speaker 5: the problem was was that this physicist called Condon basically
Speaker 5: disregarded all the evidence.
Speaker 4: And said, no, no, there's no real.
Speaker 5: Advancement in science or explanation or developments in science or
Speaker 5: in the sciences that can happen through the study of UFOs.
Speaker 5: But many scientists disagreed with him, and they said, but look,
Speaker 5: you're contradicting the evidence in this report. And you know,
Speaker 5: there was a freedom of information request that happened. I
Speaker 5: think it was in October of nineteen sixty nine, for example.
Speaker 4: And the.
Speaker 5: Event that occurred, because I mean the Freedom of Information
Speaker 5: Act in the States, I think that was in around
Speaker 5: seventy four. So as soon as this Freedom of Information
Speaker 5: Act comes in, somebody finds this letter from an Air
Speaker 5: Brigade general called Bolander in the States, and he's basically
Speaker 5: writing in this letter openly admitting that the US Air
Speaker 5: Force does continue to monitor these UFOs, and it's very
Speaker 5: much based on or within the context of threats, which
Speaker 5: is exactly where we are still in twenty and twenty
Speaker 5: one with this Pentagon report, whereas we have this complete
Speaker 5: antithesis with the French report that says, nothing to worry about.
Speaker 5: It's happening. The threat is always going to be possible,
Speaker 5: but it's not probable, it's improbable, and in fact that
Speaker 5: the French military anticipated a peaceful presence.
Speaker 4: They go as far to say.
Speaker 5: That they say, well, they're asking the questions, do they
Speaker 5: simply want to observe us? And then they go on
Speaker 5: to say, you know, it could be to warn us
Speaker 5: of a potential nuclear holocaust because we're playing around with
Speaker 5: nuclear testing and weapons. Or it could be to stop
Speaker 5: US from sending weaponry or explosives into space because it
Speaker 5: could have an impact across across their area of space.
Speaker 5: Even if it was, say to kind of divert incoming asteroids,
Speaker 5: which is a reasonable thing to try and do, but
Speaker 5: it could have an impact.
Speaker 1: You know, this this report that we're discussing it. The
Speaker 1: more I hear about it, the more it makes me
Speaker 1: just realize that our government, our military is probably you know,
Speaker 1: hiding so much because they have so much advanced technology already.
Speaker 1: Some of these you know, black op factions probably have
Speaker 1: you know, reverse engineered everything, you know, And if we
Speaker 1: were to kind of admit that we knew a little
Speaker 1: bit more about this, and I don't think we know
Speaker 1: how to to approach that and not give ourselves away.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we have a lot at stake,
Speaker 1: And especially if we're running with a secret space program
Speaker 1: that goes, you know, beyond the Moon, even possibly beyond Mars,
Speaker 1: we could have operations already out there.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's really something that we wouldn't want getting out into
Speaker 1: the public, especially with some of the technologies that are
Speaker 1: associated with this supposed secret space program. So yeah, the
Speaker 1: more the more I hear about this report, and this
Speaker 1: was in the nineties, you know, I'm sure a lot
Speaker 1: has changed. I don't know if any you know, alliances
Speaker 1: have been formed with these secret factions or in in the.
Speaker 5: It's a very good point, Chris, because I heard through
Speaker 5: a former elite military soldier, a French soldier by the
Speaker 5: way happened to be walking over the Pont Dalma in
Speaker 5: Paris the moment that Princess Diana died in ninety seven, bizarrely,
Speaker 5: and he says that he had a contact who was
Speaker 5: literally a French intelligence officer who was basically moving location
Speaker 5: every six months, and he was informed in a bar
Speaker 5: by this guy because they're both soldiers. But this guy
Speaker 5: happened to go into intelligence and he said that the
Speaker 5: French military or the French Ministry of Defense have been
Speaker 5: in contact with a small gray species. So that's just anecdotal,
Speaker 5: and you know, something that happens after this report came
Speaker 5: out in ninety nine, so it's interesting. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 5: God knows what they're doing. I mean, even Dr Stephen
Speaker 5: Grier has been he brand Some years ago, he was
Speaker 5: brandishing a letter that the French Ministry of Defense wrote
Speaker 5: to him to thank him for a field trip that
Speaker 5: he did with a group of a group of generals
Speaker 5: in the north of France where apparently it was in
Speaker 5: plain daylight.
Speaker 4: He can vote.
Speaker 5: He did the C five contact and a load of
Speaker 5: purple orbs or UFO showed up in front of an
Speaker 5: audience of French generals and military, you know staff.
Speaker 4: So there hasn't been a huge amount of.
Speaker 5: You know, concrete evidence apart from these anecdotal points and
Speaker 5: some limited documentary evidence coming out. But the kind of
Speaker 5: groundwork in this Comita report that was given to the
Speaker 5: Prime Minister of France in ninety nine is just it's
Speaker 5: all there, and it's the anti thesis of this of
Speaker 5: this frankly piece of crap from the Pentagon. And I
Speaker 5: know that many of our colleagues in the UFO Fielder said, look,
Speaker 5: it's a start, it is a start, but it's a
Speaker 5: misleading start in my opinion, because it's not looking at
Speaker 5: the wider evidence. And maybe we'll just go over that.
Speaker 5: I mean, the French report talks about the secre sed
Speaker 5: it mentions, you know, Colonel Philip Corso releasing the day
Speaker 5: after Roswell in ninety seven, exactly fifty years after the
Speaker 5: Roswell crash happened, which would have fallen outside I suppose
Speaker 5: of the Official Secrets Act at the time or whatever
Speaker 5: the law was in or is in the States, and
Speaker 5: it says we need to have cooperation with the European Union,
Speaker 5: with the United States, with NATO, we need to have
Speaker 5: protocols put in place with the French Space Agency, with
Speaker 5: the Air Force and the civil aviation bureaus and all
Speaker 5: of these you know, sensible suggestions. It even goes as
Speaker 5: far to say, we need to break our bad habits
Speaker 5: as kind of you know, a civilization hooked on politics
Speaker 5: and religion which is going to get in the way
Speaker 5: of advancing. So you know, it comes up with these
Speaker 5: a series of conclusions and suggestions which are far more
Speaker 5: useful than what we see in the penta On report.
Speaker 5: And it opens the conclusions by saying in French, we
Speaker 5: must not laugh at the UFO problem because it's not
Speaker 5: funny and there's too much evidence and there's too many
Speaker 5: serious implications happening. It even goes to say, we need
Speaker 5: a cosmic and un quoting you here, a cosmic vigilance
Speaker 5: is now required from now on to kind of avoid
Speaker 5: any to disarm possible media manipulation. So I mean that
Speaker 5: this is a truly independent and smart report that's coming out,
Speaker 5: and at the end by saying, look, the goals or
Speaker 5: the objectives of these visitors are not known, but they
Speaker 5: must be. We must speculate reasonably about this, and we
Speaker 5: have a series of recommendations informing the political leadership and
Speaker 5: military leadership and you know the administrations, civil aviation pilots,
Speaker 5: helicopter pilots, they need to learn about this in you know, FLIGHTSCA.
Speaker 5: That's what it says. We need to have military research
Speaker 5: dedicated to this, and finance, we need the resources to
Speaker 5: do it across all the different agencies, surveillance systems, so
Speaker 5: many things. The highest level of state needs to be
Speaker 5: involved at the and link into the French Space Agency
Speaker 5: and it's just so much more interesting and you know, laudable.
Speaker 5: And there's a there's a notable difference Chris, between the
Speaker 5: French report and this Pentagon report. And that's the kind
Speaker 5: of series of you know, explanations that they offer. And
Speaker 5: I'll go into that if you like, I'll kind of compare.
Speaker 5: I'll go into the Pentagon report and try and cover
Speaker 5: a few things that are more subtle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just jump in sure, we'll do.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, we all we've heard so much
Speaker 5: about this Pentagon report the twenty fifth of June of
Speaker 5: this year, and like I mentioned earlier, there's this continuation,
Speaker 5: sadly of the inertia of Project Blue Book, which was,
Speaker 5: like I said, between nineteen forty seven to sixty nine
Speaker 5: denied officially denied UFOs and that they were of little
Speaker 5: interest to advance the sciences. And although Blue Book was
Speaker 5: criticized by the scientists, and I think they were the
Speaker 5: American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronomy or Astronautics at the time,
Speaker 5: you know, they said that there's this contradiction. Then we
Speaker 5: had the Freedom of Information Acts confirming that this stuff
Speaker 5: was continually being monitored. And then here we are in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty one and we get six pages of a
Speaker 5: very generic, circumumstantial, limited look at the UFO reality within
Speaker 5: the States. It's all about threats. In the introduction, there's
Speaker 5: four mentions of the word threat, completely the opposite of
Speaker 5: the French report, the military report, and you know, it
Speaker 5: says that it's for the intelligence community to organize and
Speaker 5: to understand, not the little people or the you know,
Speaker 5: with the social kind of implications that the French military
Speaker 5: are talking about here. And you know, we're only looking
Speaker 5: at events that took place between November two thousand and
Speaker 5: four to March twenty twenty one, which is just we're
Speaker 5: choosing to be blind, that's what it says. I mean,
Speaker 5: and embarrassingly, it goes in to say that the majority
Speaker 5: of them are from twenty and seventeen to twenty twenty one. Only, yeah,
Speaker 5: it's embarrassing, it is, and that they're mainly from the
Speaker 5: US Navy. And I think that anyone that really studies
Speaker 5: this phenomena knows that the US Navy are probably the
Speaker 5: good guys that are trying to advance the study and
Speaker 5: actually are more relaxed about releasing this. We've been told
Speaker 5: that there's been kind of conflicting views as to what
Speaker 5: the classified version of this report looks like, and there
Speaker 5: was talk that it might be leaked or it should
Speaker 5: have been leaked by now. Some say it's seventy pages long.
Speaker 5: Others say it's four hundred pages long. I mean, there's
Speaker 5: a huge variance there of length, which is basically this
Speaker 5: appendix B to the report. That's what it would be.
Speaker 5: If we look at the Pentagon report, there's twenty or
Speaker 5: so alphabet agencies listed, and the one that I mentioned
Speaker 5: to you the other day, Chris that doesn't appear is
Speaker 5: take a guess the CIA. It's the CIA well done so,
Speaker 5: I mean very interesting. I mean, the CIA has domestic influence,
Speaker 5: but also international. These are the guys that should be
Speaker 5: going over to other governments and intelligence agencies to feed
Speaker 5: in and of course they're not there, and it's deliberate.
Speaker 1: Well, they are the largest drug dealers on the planet,
Speaker 1: so I mean it's to be expected.
Speaker 4: Wow, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just got to be honest.
Speaker 5: Really, No, there is plenty on this subject around the
Speaker 5: drug trade.
Speaker 4: I'm aware of it.
Speaker 1: I don't know that among among other dirtyness that we
Speaker 1: won't get into tonight.
Speaker 5: But you know, yeah, I know I've had a lot
Speaker 5: of things too, and you know a lot more about
Speaker 5: that than me. But as to this report, I mean,
Speaker 5: the fact that they're not there is just like it
Speaker 5: sticks out like a sore thumb. So either the CIA
Speaker 5: are you know, they're they're they're closing down the information
Speaker 5: deliberately by not being there. They either won't closer control.
Speaker 4: Or they won't cooperate.
Speaker 5: Who knows, but I would have thought that they've been
Speaker 5: doing a lot of orchestration and you know, behind the scenes,
Speaker 5: and the fact that they're not here speaks volumes overall.
Speaker 5: This It's a silly report in that it kind of
Speaker 5: ignores everything that this military report from France says it's
Speaker 5: like a false agnosticism, as in, we can't decide whether
Speaker 5: it's real or not after all the strong evidence it's
Speaker 5: been going back for decades, you know, nearly one hundred years,
Speaker 5: and you know, a cover up that we officially know
Speaker 5: has been running since the twenties or thirties before oswell
Speaker 5: in the States, there's no mention whatsoever of ets or
Speaker 5: extraterrestrial origins. Very disappointing and unrealistic. But there are some
Speaker 5: nuanced hints at that jump around in this report and
Speaker 5: the two issues we're going to look at a in
Speaker 5: a bit, and it's kind of it's very subtle, but
Speaker 5: it kind of jumps around and it's hidden in jargon
Speaker 5: so that the kind of average you know, Joe public
Speaker 5: isn't really going to think too much. I mean, the
Speaker 5: Executive Summary talks about a limited amount of high quality
Speaker 5: reporting being available, which is rubbish, but that's what they say.
Speaker 5: But they do they kind of parrot the French report
Speaker 5: and say, but well, these do represent physical objects and
Speaker 5: they're mainly registered on They call it sensors, multiple sensors,
Speaker 5: so you know, radar tech whatever, infrared, electro optical weapon
Speaker 5: seekers and visual observations. What it does is is shrinks
Speaker 5: down these kinds of explanations into five categories. There's airborne clutter,
Speaker 5: natural atmospheric phenomena, so ice that kind of thing, a
Speaker 5: United States government or US industry developmental programs, whatever that means,
Speaker 5: whether that includes you know, the special access programs or
Speaker 5: black projects as people like to call them, foreign adversary systems.
Speaker 5: And then there's this kind of interesting fifth category, the
Speaker 5: catch all other bin which could be anything.
Speaker 4: So there is a there is some overlap with the
Speaker 4: French military report.
Speaker 5: You know that it says, yes, it could be a
Speaker 5: foreign adversary, or they don't call them an adversary, they'd
Speaker 5: just say, you know, foreign technology.
Speaker 4: But the French report goes further.
Speaker 5: It says, well, it could be paranormal, unseen forces that
Speaker 5: we don't understand. It's it's possibly scientific, and it's probably not.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's not scientific, but it's a reality.
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure a lot of this is, you know, because we
Speaker 1: have a lot of reverse engineer technology. We know a lot,
Speaker 1: but it's also probably because we don't know a lot
Speaker 1: and we are we don't understand what's going on. It's
Speaker 1: probably beyond human comprehension to some levels. So it's it
Speaker 1: may be terrifying to some of these factions that they
Speaker 1: can't understand this stuff. I don't know, because it seems
Speaker 1: it seems to all be connected into some weird paranormal
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 5: The French Report is honest enough to say, well, it
Speaker 5: could be paranormal, it could be disinformation. You know, it
Speaker 5: could be you know, within the context of the Cold
Speaker 5: War cases and even up to now, it could be
Speaker 5: you know, governments or whoever making us think it's ET
Speaker 5: when it's not, which is unlikely because the technology is
Speaker 5: so advanced.
Speaker 4: They even go as far to.
Speaker 5: Say it could be holographics, as in, you know, there
Speaker 5: was this kind of theory connected to Blue Book about
Speaker 5: a kind of full salient invasion or whatever, and it says, well, yeah,
Speaker 5: it could be holographics, and that could either be extraterrestrial
Speaker 5: or it could be man made human but it would
Speaker 5: be but they say it's very hard to pull off.
Speaker 5: And then the final kind of part of this French
Speaker 5: report says well, it's most likely ets could be in
Speaker 5: the asteroid belt, could be a lot of civilization or
Speaker 5: advanced civilization from Earth and that's the most likely explanation.
Speaker 5: But with this Pentagon one, it's just this other casual
Speaker 5: you know, put in in this basket, having no explanation
Speaker 5: for the public in this unclassified report. And I mean
Speaker 5: the report just says we need to organize and formalize reporting.
Speaker 5: That's what it's basically saying. And it pretends not to
Speaker 5: know anything about the phenomena, you know, insulting all of
Speaker 5: our intelligence and flying in.
Speaker 1: The face of it was mainly an insult.
Speaker 5: It is an insult in my opinion. I mean, that's
Speaker 5: what it is. It is a start if you're if
Speaker 5: you're a member of the public and you don't even
Speaker 5: think about this subject, it might be a you know,
Speaker 5: intriguing or curious, but it's frankly.
Speaker 1: I think after twenty seventeen, the public should be beyond this.
Speaker 1: At that point, and I think, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: the majority people honestly are ready to hear this, and
Speaker 1: they already know it. You know, most of you guys
Speaker 1: in the States.
Speaker 5: Have a persuaded that extraterrestrials exist. I mean, there's been
Speaker 5: surveys on this, and then there's a reason that they're
Speaker 5: doing surveys on this they know, so you know, it's
Speaker 5: saying that the Navy is where this is coming from,
Speaker 5: because I think they are more transparent.
Speaker 4: They want to genuinely advanced that's in the public sphere.
Speaker 5: So they're kind of like, let's not mention the CIA
Speaker 5: and the black projects or whatever.
Speaker 1: Let's well, I also think when it comes to military faction,
Speaker 1: the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing.
Speaker 5: And absolutely, and this is what I think the report
Speaker 5: is secretly hinting at. There's a section we'll talk about that.
Speaker 5: I mean it goes into saying, look, there's stigma. Our
Speaker 5: information's crap because there's stigma amongst the personnel. Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: our senses are limited. I mean it's pathetic. And you know,
Speaker 5: the percentage of cases that are high quality tiny, so
Speaker 5: you know, and it's well, if the military equipment happens
Speaker 5: to pick it up, you know, then then we can
Speaker 5: go to that. And you know, I think that you know,
Speaker 5: with these appearances that happened around you know, these training
Speaker 5: exercises of the Navy, it's either genuine extraterrestrial or other
Speaker 5: intelligences that are doing it in front of the people
Speaker 5: most likely to document this, you know, absent this problem
Speaker 5: of true will power to disclose, or it's the military
Speaker 5: just trying to stage something and slowly break us in
Speaker 5: with technology that they have. That's how I how I
Speaker 5: see it.
Speaker 1: There's there's also this strange kind of mainstream media aspect
Speaker 1: that I've noticed, and you know, we I have I
Speaker 1: have friends that in this kind of space, in this
Speaker 1: mainstream space. And I'm not talking bad about any of
Speaker 1: these guys. I love all these guys, but there's some
Speaker 1: strange things going on even in in our community, even
Speaker 1: in our space. I don't know if we've been infiltrated.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that, but there is some
Speaker 1: interesting things going on, especially when it comes to some
Speaker 1: of the bigger players in this. Like I'll mention Danny
Speaker 1: Sheehan because he's like one of the huge, you know,
Speaker 1: biggest players when it comes to mainstream UFO disclosure because
Speaker 1: you know he's the government lawyer. You know, he's the
Speaker 1: guy involved with this. And then they have all men
Speaker 1: to lou Alezondo. Those are the only two I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put out there right now because they're the big ones
Speaker 1: and we can we can talk about them because they
Speaker 1: I think they can handle it. I think they're they're
Speaker 1: big boys, but it's I just find it odd that
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now these these two big players
Speaker 1: are involved with all the talk shows in the mainstream media.
Speaker 1: They're coming out with this information. And I I'd never
Speaker 1: spoken with lul Alezondo. I'd love to have him on
Speaker 1: the show. I should, yes, I just I feel like
Speaker 1: there's some things that he knows that he's not disclosing.
Speaker 1: And I question, I question the involvement with with Danny
Speaker 1: sheehan and why all of a sudden, you know, they're
Speaker 1: just in the mainstream disclosing this. They seem to be
Speaker 1: kind of at the same time going along with the
Speaker 1: mainstream disclosure at the same time butting heads with it.
Speaker 1: And then we have this drama with Steve and it
Speaker 1: all seems way too dramatic and strange. I don't know
Speaker 1: what it. I just can't put my finger on it.
Speaker 1: But something's off, something's weird. I don't know.
Speaker 4: You get that, yeah, I do.
Speaker 5: And I know that you interviewed Danny she hannat Laughlin.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know if you managed to have
Speaker 5: an offline chat with him about this, but.
Speaker 1: I would not much because he was, he was running around,
Speaker 1: but i'd had that little interview.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, well, I think I think that, you know,
Speaker 5: I think these guys are they want to get this out,
Speaker 5: but they know that they can if they they can't
Speaker 5: go too far. There's probably too many consequences on their
Speaker 5: shoulders and their families. Who knows, We just don't know.
Speaker 5: I found it quite interesting that Danny Sheehan has now
Speaker 5: you know, formally distanced himself from Dr Stephen Guer after
Speaker 5: he saw a kind of what he says is in
Speaker 5: miscontextualization of his his feedback in the.
Speaker 1: A UFO soap opera drama or something, I don't know.
Speaker 5: Crazy yeah and so, and I have to say, you know,
Speaker 5: doctor Greer has done a great job, and he's done
Speaker 5: a lot for this movement, but that you can't avoid
Speaker 5: some of the obvious issues with the narrative that he
Speaker 5: he comes out with at times in terms of, you know,
Speaker 5: abductions are purely industrial military complex phenomena, and even maligning
Speaker 5: some of the kind of let's say, bloodline aristocratic classes
Speaker 5: that it's not all black and white. Some of them, actually,
Speaker 5: I understand, do want disclosure because they're genuinely interested and
Speaker 5: they have the time and the money and the resources
Speaker 5: to actually look into this, and some of them have
Speaker 5: had experiences. So my issue with doctor Greer is that
Speaker 5: he's very black and white about this because I think,
Speaker 5: you know, he does want people not to be afraid,
Speaker 5: and that's that's a good thing. He's right, but you
Speaker 5: shouldn't lie about things that always represent Let's let's put
Speaker 5: it like that. I don't I don't want to miscaracterize
Speaker 5: him so that I think there's a lot of this
Speaker 5: tension that's happening at that kind of level. And there
Speaker 5: are certain actors who are trusted with the authorities the government,
Speaker 5: who are able to come out with certain things. But
Speaker 5: I think they're they're being given limited information and they
Speaker 5: know that they can't overstep their their remit and it's
Speaker 5: it's it's unfortunate there is that, you know what, Chris,
Speaker 5: we're talking about this, you know, hidden hidden technology.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: There's something that tells me. On page five of this
Speaker 5: uh this report, there's a little section at the bottom
Speaker 5: of page five that talks about within the context of
Speaker 5: UAP probably lacking a single explanation, which is pretty obvious.
Speaker 5: And then when it goes into this kind of United
Speaker 5: States government or industry developmental programs. It says that some
Speaker 5: UAPs or their observations could be attributable to developments and
Speaker 5: classified proms by US entities, but it doesn't say the
Speaker 5: US government, says US entities, and we were unable to confirm, however,
Speaker 5: that these systems accounted for any of the UAP reports
Speaker 5: we collected. So it's saying this may not be United
Speaker 5: States government, and they may be signaling through this one tiny,
Speaker 5: little three line paragraph that there's a problem because I
Speaker 5: think that the government deliberately that for reasons of social
Speaker 5: context and money making and privatizing the technology, they got
Speaker 5: it out of the government within the government and they
Speaker 5: put it into the you know, the industrial military complex,
Speaker 5: knowing that it's off the books and it's unaccounted for.
Speaker 5: But certain, you know, fortunate people within the administration or
Speaker 5: the machinery have access to both worlds. And that's why,
Speaker 5: you know, there are presidents that got told that they
Speaker 5: haven't they don't have a need to know a basis
Speaker 5: on you know, seeking information from this. I'm thinking, you know,
Speaker 5: Bill Clinton and his head of star chief of staff,
Speaker 5: for example, and also Jimmy Carter, President, Jimmy Carter, who
Speaker 5: was just put to one side by the then head
Speaker 5: of the CIA, George Bush Senior Herbert Walker. So I
Speaker 5: think that this report is very subtly signaling that we've
Speaker 5: got a problem that's out of control. It's in the
Speaker 5: private hands. We may or may not have created that
Speaker 5: problem ourselves, and it's but it's it's too subtle. But
Speaker 5: I'm gonna get that energy when I read it. I
Speaker 5: think they're trying to tell us, but they can't say.
Speaker 5: It mentions this, you know, foreign potential, foreign government or
Speaker 5: adversary with a breakthrough aerospace technology, but it doesn't say who.
Speaker 4: It won't name Russia or China or India. So yeah, very.
Speaker 5: Very very limited in help and scope. Does talk about
Speaker 5: the fact that they're going to start using AI to
Speaker 5: try to learn about the phenomena that's new to the Pentagon.
Speaker 5: Apparently because now the ombudsman stepped in and as soon
Speaker 5: as this report came out, it was like a pantomime,
Speaker 5: you know, theater. And then suddenly the Undersecretary of Defense
Speaker 5: writes a letter to the Department of Defense.
Speaker 4: Saying, what's going on.
Speaker 5: We need to organize, you know, as if nobody knew
Speaker 5: about this. It's it's it's funny. I mean, the US
Speaker 5: kind of approach is so I have to say, it's
Speaker 5: so immature, yea to the brainy, reasonable cerebral explanations that
Speaker 5: this military think tank of generals and scientists have come
Speaker 5: up with it.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think it's because you know, they they
Speaker 1: believe that Americans are that stupid that we'll just you know,
Speaker 1: go along with it. Some of us are, but not
Speaker 1: all of us.
Speaker 5: No common Chris possibly say that as a British Mauritian.
Speaker 1: National understand I understand.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love this, you know, just reading the two
Speaker 5: reports side by side, and you know, the US is
Speaker 5: really messed up. I mean, it was a brilliant opportunity
Speaker 5: to at least put something in there.
Speaker 1: Do you think anything else is going to come out
Speaker 1: of it? I mean public reaction or discussed is enough
Speaker 1: for them to kind of put out more.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean that there has been this media
Speaker 5: circus predictably around the Pentagon report, and yet there was
Speaker 5: nothing with the French one, which was far more impressive.
Speaker 5: But what I'm hoping, although I'm not encouraging anyone to
Speaker 5: break the law obviously is to see the elite version
Speaker 5: of this come out. And you know, there's some saying
Speaker 5: that it's seventy pages in length in this classified version,
Speaker 5: and others say, actually four hundred pages when you include
Speaker 5: the appendices.
Speaker 4: So yeah, and it hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 5: So I'm waiting for a leak and then hopefully from that,
Speaker 5: whether it's a staged one that's deliberately done by the
Speaker 5: you know, the Pentagon or not. I mean, I think
Speaker 5: that will help. But again, I think even that the
Speaker 5: Senators are not going to be read into the true,
Speaker 5: you know, the dirty truth of how of how this
Speaker 5: went into government, you know, outside of the constitutional machinery
Speaker 5: that Danny sheehan talks about, and into these special access
Speaker 5: projects that as Richard Dolan, the historian on UFOs terms
Speaker 5: a runaway civilization because they've been developing this stuff for
Speaker 5: decades and we've even got the former head of you know,
Speaker 5: locky skunk Works, Ben rich I believe, in an alumnus
Speaker 5: event saying we've we have the technology to take et
Speaker 5: back to the stars and we're ten thousand years ahead.
Speaker 5: I mean, how can you ignore all these kind of things?
Speaker 1: And you can't.
Speaker 5: But just doing this and saying no, most of the
Speaker 5: cases that we're reating from twenty seventeen, twenty to twenty one,
Speaker 5: and yeah, the quality of the information, I think.
Speaker 1: At the same time, you have to be careful because
Speaker 1: I think some of the information is just disinformation put
Speaker 1: out there to confuse people and not keep us on
Speaker 1: the right track. So we have to be discerning, you know,
Speaker 1: with this information.
Speaker 5: True, But that's the thing I mean, I believe that
Speaker 5: regardless of the fact that we're very we're still a
Speaker 5: juvenile species, as we can tell from this UAP report
Speaker 5: from Pentagon. We need to know the truth whether or
Speaker 5: not we can handle it. And you know, something I
Speaker 5: spoke about recently, Chris, was the fact that I think
Speaker 5: that we are going to be allowed to develop kind
Speaker 5: of let's call it halfway house technology that allows us
Speaker 5: to travel to the stars and space travel and you know,
Speaker 5: ma easingly fast travel here and on planet Earth. But
Speaker 5: it won't be fully fledged kind of anti gravity you know,
Speaker 5: time space manipulating technology. It's more likely to be a
Speaker 5: super conducting material that allows this levitational effect and you know,
Speaker 5: lack of resistance to happen. And there was a very
Speaker 5: interesting explanation about this by mister x On who described
Speaker 5: the Admiral Wilson leaks, and he talks about how, you know,
Speaker 5: electrons are being manipulated to work in pairs, and this
Speaker 5: is how this levitational technology is working within the you know,
Speaker 5: the Special Access Black Project. Well it's not fully fledged
Speaker 5: anti grav according to him. So even maybe they haven't
Speaker 5: even got that far, but they're still you know, millennia
Speaker 5: ahead even with that. Yeah, and let's be honest, I
Speaker 5: don't think et would give us an equivalent technology to
Speaker 5: what they have.
Speaker 1: No, probably not like you. Oh no, no, I would
Speaker 1: if you know, and I always put it this way,
Speaker 1: And if I was a highly advanced species and I'm
Speaker 1: just cruising by the planet and we do a little
Speaker 1: close up look as to what's going on in there,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I don't even think I want to
Speaker 1: stop by there. You know, I'm going to keep cruising
Speaker 1: along the universe. But you know, maybe maybe they have
Speaker 1: some interest, to some vested interest in us because of that.
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe we are a multi multi species experiment that
Speaker 5: they do come and they go. You know, the times
Speaker 5: that they were here documented in art form and folkloric
Speaker 5: kind of transmission. Now you said they and then they
Speaker 5: come back and what are the kids up to?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said experiment, And that's that's kind of one
Speaker 1: of the magic words for me is trying to understand
Speaker 1: all this because it's one of the huge possibilities for
Speaker 1: me lately. You know, either an experiment or we're actually
Speaker 1: choosing to incarnate on this existence, this planet because it
Speaker 1: was put here as some kind of learning or training experience.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of battling between the two. Is this a
Speaker 1: spiritual experience or are we on a prison planet experiment?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I could, yes, that would
Speaker 1: that would be great, that that'd be a great answer
Speaker 1: because I think that it would. It would explain everything,
Speaker 1: and it'd be a horrible answer because it's terrifying, but
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it's it's fascinating to to take in
Speaker 1: all these possibilities.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: To close out tonight, what do you think? Because it's
Speaker 1: all connected. All my past recent guests for the past
Speaker 1: couple of years have been coming together to this culmination
Speaker 1: of trying to compare notes with ufology, paranormal, metaphysical, spiritual consciousness,
Speaker 1: everything that I cover, because it's all connected. In some way,
Speaker 1: it's just what is this connection? How is it all connected?
Speaker 1: And you know, just trying to make sense of it all.
Speaker 1: So what do you think maybe give us a little
Speaker 1: a little bit of insight?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 5: Actually, I mean, as you know from our discussions and
Speaker 5: my presentation in Laughlin, I absolutely think this is a
Speaker 5: spiritual issue that's been played out in a multi dimensional
Speaker 5: and physical in our OWM playing field. So to deny
Speaker 5: connect you know, connection and the spiritual dimension is to
Speaker 5: completely miss the point. And I totally agree with you, Chris.
Speaker 5: I think that we are now we desperately need and
Speaker 5: we are need to move away from this kind of
Speaker 5: observational euthology, and it's only so helpful. So you know
Speaker 5: it is real.
Speaker 4: We know it's real.
Speaker 5: Even both of these reports say it's physically real. They
Speaker 5: mirror each other in that respect. I think there is
Speaker 5: absolutely a consciousness phenomena happening that links between us and
Speaker 5: the phenomena, and we are manifesting it, and that it's
Speaker 5: also codependent on us. There's an element of trickery and
Speaker 5: elusiveness that's deliberate so that we learn more about ourselves.
Speaker 5: I think it's definitely across let's call them the dimensions.
Speaker 5: And I'm not saying that there has to be and
Speaker 5: science in fact says the dimensions don't need to be infinite.
Speaker 5: It only needs to be a limited number, you know.
Speaker 5: And maybe maybe, like the French Report talks about this
Speaker 5: kind of paranormal or other worldly realities or powers that
Speaker 5: may linking to this, we can call them divine laws.
Speaker 5: Maybe there's this kind of divine firewall or system of
Speaker 5: intelligence that is operating all forms of reality, including the
Speaker 5: back end of you know, the third dimension or the
Speaker 5: four dimensions that we have here when you include time
Speaker 5: all together. And maybe that as children, our senses have
Speaker 5: been atrophied, are being cut back because of the way
Speaker 5: that we're socialized and the social conditioning that occurs. And
Speaker 5: maybe these are the enemies of consciousness and conscience. So
Speaker 5: there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1: I know what our next show is going to be about, JP.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be We're gonna go deep next time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll go deep. We'll go deep.
Speaker 5: I always do when we chat, But but I want
Speaker 5: to I would say this though, Chris, despite all this technology,
Speaker 5: implication and multiple different species, they're not separate from us.
Speaker 5: They're not inferior to us, but they're not superior to
Speaker 5: us either. You know, everything has its divine place in
Speaker 5: my view, and I think that you know that if
Speaker 5: there are you know, in some of the cases, we're
Speaker 5: looking at AI being sort of hunting down other terrestrial
Speaker 5: species that created it because they're so you know, super intelligent,
Speaker 5: but it hasn't got the let's call it, the divine
Speaker 5: spark that we have as spiritual beings as opposed to
Speaker 5: pure AI. I mean, this is in the Amichitsia cases
Speaker 5: of the sixties to the eighties that occurred across Italy
Speaker 5: and Europe, and this is in my view, the largest
Speaker 5: kind of mass citing cases that have been documented ever.
Speaker 5: And the beings have been interacting with you know, university professors,
Speaker 5: that kind of thing, and they're literally saying, we're fleeing
Speaker 5: a form of AI that we created that wants to
Speaker 5: destroy us because we have.
Speaker 4: What it doesn't.
Speaker 5: So the cases tell us there's a spiritual dimension within
Speaker 5: within within us and within them, so that may make
Speaker 5: us equals. I don't think they're you know, and I
Speaker 5: don't think that you know, we can look at it
Speaker 5: simply from human notions of good and bad and you know,
Speaker 5: allies and adversaries. I think it's far more sophisticated. I think,
Speaker 5: like in the cases of abductions, which are absolutely a
Speaker 5: real phenomenon and are not categorically not simply military from
Speaker 5: the cases and you know the work of professor and
Speaker 5: doctor John Mack of Harvard who studied this and covered
Speaker 5: some amazing.
Speaker 4: Cases.
Speaker 5: I mean he even went on to Oprah Winfrey with
Speaker 5: one of his contactees, who had the guts to go
Speaker 5: out and do that back in the nineties, I believe
Speaker 5: what early two thousands. So it does go into a
Speaker 5: spiritual dimension. It goes into questions of ultimate creation and
Speaker 5: the creator. Uh, it goes into a management system of
Speaker 5: reality or realities of forces and beings and intelligences that
Speaker 5: inhabit these worlds or dimensions, densities, whatever we want to
Speaker 5: call them. And you know, if there is this unique
Speaker 5: and multiple intelligence or creator, are we just the product
Speaker 5: of a dream or a thought of this uh, this
Speaker 5: divine being that's that's you know, creating all these these
Speaker 5: dramatic realities. And you know, who are the messengers that
Speaker 5: go between these worlds? Is that what we're seeing?
Speaker 4: Or are we? You know, are we?
Speaker 5: Are we creating it ourselves, like the Jungin kind of
Speaker 5: construct with consciousness and are we are we seeing these
Speaker 5: beings come to us as a as a product of
Speaker 5: the true nature of reality in this reality in in
Speaker 5: in that it's it's a feedback of some kind. You know,
Speaker 5: who is watching over us? And can we with us?
Speaker 5: And what watches over them and communes with them or
Speaker 5: observes them, So you know, it's that kind of who
Speaker 5: watches the watches When we talk about dimensions, are they
Speaker 5: are they immediate or are they intermediate? Are there stages
Speaker 5: of reality? And maybe we're at the back end in
Speaker 5: this kind of denser duality of four dimensions, and maybe
Speaker 5: that everything visible is the proportional measure of the invisible.
Speaker 5: Like we started out this conversation talking about you know
Speaker 5: the fact that many people that have interactions and experiences
Speaker 5: are having changes brought around their their physiology or their
Speaker 5: their psychology or their psyche. So yeah, I think that
Speaker 5: you know, what is invisible and what is visible are
Speaker 5: equally important. We need to try and understand it and
Speaker 5: hopefully over time we can. So yeah, there are huge
Speaker 5: questions that come out of this subject, and it all
Speaker 5: starts with a silly Pentagon Report and a much more
Speaker 5: enlightened report from France in the nineties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome, man. Like I said, I had never
Speaker 1: even known that report existed. I'm glad you came across
Speaker 1: it and got to present it to everybody. So now
Speaker 1: everyone knows about this. It's great.
Speaker 4: You're most welcome.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean, I'm lucky because I speak and understand,
Speaker 5: and you know, I'm French educated. I practiced English and
Speaker 5: French law in Mauritius, So you know, I think that's
Speaker 5: the thing. It's the language in the West. In the States,
Speaker 5: it's not as accessible obviously because it's in a foreign language.
Speaker 5: But it's so well written, Chris, I know, I keep
Speaker 5: saying it, but it's one hundred and sixteen pages. For
Speaker 5: God's sake, it's you know, it's taken them three years
Speaker 5: to make not like this rubbish that's come out of
Speaker 5: the Pentagon six pages effectively or on quite version.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you could send me a link to that,
Speaker 1: and I will put a link to it in the descriptions,
Speaker 1: so if the audience wants to thumb through it, they
Speaker 1: can take a look at that. Definitely awesome, great JP,
Speaker 1: that was fantastic information as usual, And like I said,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to go really deep next time. What
Speaker 1: you were saying there towards the end, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of my audience may have their brains melting out
Speaker 1: of their ears a little bit because it might have
Speaker 1: their minds blown.
Speaker 4: Don't worry.
Speaker 1: But Yeah, awesome the stuff JP, and we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to talk again soon.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd love to you, Chris. Always a pleasure.
Speaker 5: Congratulations on the huge amount of material you're putting out.
Speaker 5: And one thing I want to say is that you know,
Speaker 5: what I appreciate is that you're putting out all these
Speaker 5: different aspects and information that some will just say it's crazy,
Speaker 5: But the point is is it because we're going into
Speaker 5: these deeper, invisible and abstract aspects to the phenomena, we
Speaker 5: can't dismiss anything and it has to be put out there,
Speaker 5: and we need to be open to the information and
Speaker 5: not just sort of shut it down. And when you
Speaker 5: have you know, the military saying it's it's possibly paranormal
Speaker 5: or greater forces, then you know we should start listening.
Speaker 1: Yes, get especially if it's not our if it's not
Speaker 1: our military, we might want to listen a little bit more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well not the American military at least, right, Uncle Sam,
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam? Okay, Well yeah, JP, that was that was
Speaker 1: great stuff. And like I said, we're going to talk
Speaker 1: again soon and thank you for sharing that with us.
Speaker 4: Most welcome, Chris, take care of my.
Speaker 1: Friend awesome and until next time, everyone, have an excellent evening.
Speaker 1: We'll talk again soon. If you're looking to start your
Speaker 1: therapeutic microdosing journey but don't know where to start, especially
Speaker 1: when looking for the highest quality and gredients, including new
Speaker 1: tropics and what you'd expect from a true microdose capsule,
Speaker 1: check out our friends at Brain Supreme. They offer the
Speaker 1: absolute highest quality ingredients, so you can start your microdosing
Speaker 1: journey knowing that you're getting top notch ingredients. To find
Speaker 1: out more, visit their website using that link right in
Speaker 1: the description and you can get fifteen percent off your
Speaker 1: entire order. Hello friends, I am so excited to tell
Speaker 1: you about Independent Media Token. Independent media Token is a
Speaker 1: brand new way to show your support for independent media
Speaker 1: without having to donate a dime. Independent media Token is
Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency on the Salana blockchain designed to generate funds
Speaker 1: to promote and foster the growth of independent content creators,
Speaker 1: allowing them to engage in their art without having to
Speaker 1: worry about being demonetized. Through a network of media partners
Speaker 1: of which you, yourself can become a part of. Independent
Speaker 1: Media Token's goal is to ensure the powers that be
Speaker 1: can never cut off all of our areas of funding
Speaker 1: and censor the only free voices left in the world.
Speaker 1: Join the movement today. You can pick up Independent Media
Speaker 1: Token using Phantom Wallet or the Solana wallet of your choice,
Speaker 1: where you can easily swap your Salana for IMT. Grab
Speaker 1: some IMT today and remember to always know your team.
Speaker 1: To learn more, visit independentmediatoken dot com or use the
Speaker 1: link right in the description. Are you and your family
Speaker 1: prepared for an emergency? Maybe the fake alien invasion? Now
Speaker 1: is the time to prepare yourself and your family for
Speaker 1: any event. Check out prep starts Now. Their mission is
Speaker 1: to provide high quality preparedness products that empower individuals and
Speaker 1: families to be ready for any situation. They're committed to
Speaker 1: delivering reliable, trusted gear to ensure your safety, security and
Speaker 1: peace of mind in times of need. Their product selection
Speaker 1: is carefully curated to provide you with the essential gear
Speaker 1: you need to stay prepared, from emergency kits to tactical tools.
Speaker 1: Every item is chosen for its reliability and practicality. Prep
Speaker 1: Starts Now understands the importance of family, and their goal
Speaker 1: is to equip you with everything you need to build
Speaker 1: a solid plan for your family's preparedness. In today's ever
Speaker 1: changing world, being prepared is more important than ever, and
Speaker 1: prep starts Now is here to help you and your
Speaker 1: family stay ready with quality products and practical guidance. Use
Speaker 1: the link in the description and get fifteen percent off
Speaker 1: your order. We live in an incredible age of information.
Speaker 1: More and more we're discovering that we've been lied to
Speaker 1: and misled about much of our human history. Corey Hughes
Speaker 1: is providing profound revelations about World War I, World War II,
Speaker 1: the JFK assassination, Martin Luther King's assassination, and much much
Speaker 1: more on his new substack, Bloody History. Subscribe now for
Speaker 1: as little as five dollars monthly. Just click that link
Speaker 1: right in the description to get started now and learn
Speaker 1: about our true history.