Speaker 1: We've all heard Christians talk about the greatest book ever written,
the Holy Bible. God is Love, Jesus is the Good Shepherd,
and there's a mention in this guy with your name
on it. They like to present it as the ultimate
guide to morality and goodness, perfect for Sunday morning and
even better for their ego. But when you actually crack
open the spine of that infallible book, the narratives take
a turn into the dark. It's a fascinating bit of
mental gymnastics to worship a God of infinite mercy while
reading le Vidicants twenty five, where that same God gives
explicit instructions on how to buy your slaves from nations
around you and pass them down as inherited property. And
for every little let the little children come to me,
you have the stomach turning reality of Joseah thirteen, where
the God of Peace decrees that the infants of Samaria
will be dashed to pieces. It seems like most Christians
treat the Word of God as a terms and conditions agreement,
almost no how he actually reads, while those that do
just scroll past the horrific fine print and metaphorically click.
I agree on the parts that promise them a blessing.
If you believe in this Bible and can explain these problems,
then give us a call because the show is starting
right now. Welcome everybody. Today is April twenty six, twenty
twenty six. I'm your host, Thinker, and joining me is
my co host, Trust but verify what's up?
Speaker 2: Trust?
Speaker 3: Hey, what's good. It's great to be here, Thinker.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to have you here. SA tell everybody a
little bit about you and how you got into debating believers.
Speaker 4: Oh man, well, it all started with COVID as a
matter of fact, and during that time, I actually started
watching AXP. I went through all the back episodes and
it just gave me the inspiration to start doing this.
Speaker 3: And I started with street epistemology.
Speaker 4: But I quickly found that that approach talking to people
online on TikTok wasn't as effective as I needed it
to be because it was very the people were very performative.
So yeah, so I decided to challenge them a little
bit more, and you know, going on two years later, here,
I am.
Speaker 1: Okay, how long have you been? Are you atheists or agnostic?
Speaker 4: I'm an agnostic atheist, yes.
Speaker 1: Okay, and how long have you been agnostic atheist?
Speaker 4: Let's see about a little over. I'd say about thirteen
fourteen years, somewhere in there. I can't remember exactly, you know,
the date I realized I didn't believe, but yeah, it's
been about that long. Yeah, so oh wow.
Speaker 1: Did you have a tough time deconstructing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I was a Christian for over thirty years,
and so i'd say the next you know, after and
it was a very I was deconstructing, kicking and screaming.
It was, you know, reading and rereading the Bible, trying
to justify it, find it new things that were giving problems,
especially all the ones you quoted.
Speaker 3: In the in the in the in the intro.
Speaker 4: Fire, yeah, Levidgas twenty five, that was, you know, and
just realizing one day it just lessens us. Things make
sense and you know, and then of course there was
the fear of hell, which I looks like I'm here
today and and so that fear of hell really kept
me hanging on.
Speaker 1: But then just realizing one day, man, I just.
Speaker 4: Don't believe it. Just it just is unbelievable. I can't
do it, you know.
Speaker 1: But what was the thing that made you start deconstructing,
Like were you looking to deconstruct or did it happen
accidentally like most.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah I wasn't.
Speaker 5: I was.
Speaker 4: It was reading the Bible, actually just reading the Bible
all the way through. And once I did that, all
the questions came up, all the things you can't reconcile.
And then you go start asking other people questions and
they can't reckon because you hear the old tropes. You know, well,
why don't you pray to God about it? Or why
don't you go read it again? Or you know, we
just we just can't explain God's mind. It's just God's
mysterious like that, you know, it just it just wasn't sad.
It was like it was like having a splinter that
you just can't get out, you know that you can
just slightly feel that's slightly uncomfortable then and you just
keep trying to dig it out.
Speaker 1: And then the more you try to.
Speaker 4: Dig it out, kind of the deeper it goes in,
and you just spend all that time trying to.
Speaker 3: Dig it out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just like that. I just couldn't get
it out, you know, couldn't get it out of my mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, the thing that I held on to
was the word Christ because it seemed so holy and
you know, so revered. And I promise you, every time
I tried to say anything bad about Christ, I could
hear the oh yeah, they didn't.
Speaker 4: Give you like this feeling like right here, like you
know read yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I literally convinced myself that that was to feel safe.
That the reason they used that word and like drove
that word into our brain so much, was that was
the thing that was going to keep us from going
over to the other side.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then when I finally was like, man, fuck all
this like this shit ain't real, and it just, I
don't know, the reverence just went away.
Speaker 4: I gotta tell you, man, because you know, when I
first came out of the TikTok and I was looking
for a little bit more push to go live, you
were one of the people I watched and you know,
and I was like, oh man.
Speaker 1: This girl's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah this I mean, she's just getting it.
Speaker 4: But the other part of it is it's like, now,
when you're telling me this, it's really hard to imagine
you as a Christian, Like like it's just really hard.
But I get it though, I get it, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I was a Christian for twenty eight years.
I was a missionary.
Speaker 2: I preached.
Speaker 1: I tell everybody I preached for y'all were like, yeah,
wait knows me. Yeah, I was one of those, all
my neees crying out to them and thanking them for
being for his prisons being there, Like I was one
of those.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, Well, I'm excited to have you meday. Hopefully we
get some good calls. Yes today, just really quickly. The
Atheist Experience is a product of the Atheist Community of Austin,
a five oh one c three nonprofit organized organization dedicated
to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and
the separation of religion and government. We are trying streaming tonight,
so a big shout out to our viewers on TikTok
and YouTube mobile. If you are watching us on TikTok
tonight and you'd like to talk to us, then request
to join from the TikTok platform and we'll bring you
up on stage. Please make sure that you are over
eighteen years of age before doing so. I do show
that we have someone in.
Speaker 2: The TikTok Q.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go ahead and do that, but before
before we do, just want to say, if you are
calling in and you're not on TikTok and you're in
the the YouTube fam, call the show at five one
two nine nine one nine two four two or visit
tiny dot c C for slash called AXP and we'll
we'll get you on as well. Oh never mind, that
was you in the in the gizzer grid. Oh my bad.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I gotta join, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. We want to ask everybody over in TikTok plan
to share the stream out, tap the screen, help us
get people in the room. What type of calls are
you hoping to get today, Drs oh Man.
Speaker 4: I know we were talking about this before we went on,
and you know, I think if we can get some
just some good calls about like, uh, you know, the
experiential ones.
Speaker 1: Actually I think I kind of like those.
Speaker 4: Now. It does get a little bit, you know, a
little bit dry when they start like going deep into
their experience because it's all the same, right, and we've
all had that anecdotal experience, yeah, and anecdotal experiences. But
if you can if you can get past once you
get past that or if we can, I can find
a way to say okay, okay, yeah that's great, But
then the talk after that, I think it's a lot better,
So you know, so that's probably one. Yeah, what about you?
Speaker 1: I like digging into the Bible because I really want
to know why they say some things are metaphorical and
something's are literal. Why definitions change of words and this
spiritual eye, like this concept of you know, spiritual interpretations,
Like how do we know that something is right and
true if everybody has their own interpretation? And I was
thinking today, the one thing that they hold true to
is this idea of them going to heaven and have
an eternal life.
Speaker 2: But nothing else in that Bible they.
Speaker 1: Don't believe, right, Like they don't believe that they can
heal somebody with a touch of their hands. They don't
believe that they can walk on water, right exactly. They
don't believe they can move mountains by just speaking to
the mountain exactly. So, but the one thing they do
believe is that they're going to have eternal life, and
I really want to know why, Like what's going on
with that? If you don't believe that you can heal
someone with your hands like your savior said you could.
Why do you believe he's gonna give your eternal life?
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, especially especially the ones who say I'm filled
with the Holy Spirit. I'm like, well, then you should
be able to convince me right now. If you've been
filled with the Holy Spirit, then you know the words
aren't coming from you, they're coming from the Holy Spirit.
So whatever you say should just convince me, just like that, exactly,
that's simple. Yeah, it never happens. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They tend to when I'm talking to them, have more
concern of the words that are coming out of our
mouths than the words that are in this book. Yeah,
because they'll say that having these conversations is misleading believers.
And I don't understand how a believer can be misled.
If they say, Jesus says my sheep, hear my voice. Yes, right,
So then you shouldn't be afraid to have these conversations
if you actually believe it. But I actually don't think
they do. I think it shows that they have doubt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And I like to sit on one Peter three,
verse fifteen. You know, be prepared to give it a
defense for anyone who demands accounting the hope that's within you, and.
Speaker 3: You know, and I'll and I just I call it
like this.
Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, if you take that word accounting,
you can think of it as me asking for a receipts.
And that's all I'm doing. I'm just asking for receipts.
And so if you're just going to start spouting claims
you know that, you know, there's eternal life or there's
eternal suffering, or there's this, there's that, I'm just gonna
ask for receipts. That's that simple.
Speaker 1: But they hate the receipts thing. Yeah, I think we're
heathens because we do read and we do want evidence
of that. Yeah, of course evidence makes.
Speaker 4: You evil, yeah apparently. Or we just don't want to believe.
We just want to sin all all that stuff. Yeah right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I asked a lot what sins are atheists committing that
believers don't commit with their salvation right under this grace.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: They won't answer it. Like I want to know the
answer to that, Like if I'm an atheist because I
just want to sin, what am I doing that you
aren't doing with this grace that Jesus gave you?
Speaker 4: When he died exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: That's a great question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But so.
Speaker 1: If you're out there and you're watching the show and
you are a believer, and you can answer that question
for me, go ahead and give us a call at
five one two nine two. What sins are atheists committing
that believers aren't already committing with Jesus' blood as a
grace gift?
Speaker 3: Definitely want to know, Yeah, we definitely want to know.
Speaker 4: What what is is?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 4: Is it your experience? Because I mean, this is my
experience that if it starts, it'll start somewhere, but it'll
always go back to Then how do we get here?
Speaker 1: Yeah? How do we get here? Mm?
Speaker 3: Hmm?
Speaker 1: Oh, well, I don't know, to be honest with you, Yeah,
but what does that answer for them?
Speaker 4: Exactly?
Speaker 2: If if a.
Speaker 1: God is the reason right that they got here, what
does that change? Yeah, because there are a lot of
them that's still that do believe in a god, are
still looking for their purpose in life, even with that
god being the answer for why humans are here. Right Exactly,
they always say, well, then what's your purpose in life?
If you don't believe in a god? That's always the answer.
If you say, I don't know how we got here,
and does it matter? They go, well, what's your purpose
in life? You still don't know that. And you do
believe in a God right exactly, it doesn't change it.
Speaker 4: So it doesn't change anything exactly like you know, and
that doesn't and that doesn't provide evidence that your God
is real. Right, that doesn't do anything. That doesn't move
the needle at all. So whether or not we know that,
you know what difference is, Yeah, you're absolutely are right,
what difference does it make? And then and then if
you think about it, Okay, let's just say that your
purpose is to worship God, is to give glory to God. Well,
isn't that a isn't that a little bit wild to
think about that? Like, I'm just here to give glory
to God. That's that's my only purpose here. So whatever
I do, whether if I get you know, if I'm
brutally you know, struck down, or you know, something bad
happens to me, something good, it's just all in the
glory of God.
Speaker 3: Well, that ultimately stops making sense.
Speaker 4: I mean, then if everything's in the glory of God,
then then nothing's in the glory of God.
Speaker 1: I mean, what are the angels doing?
Speaker 5: Right? Like?
Speaker 1: And then and then if if he created humans for
that purpose, what did he create the angels for?
Speaker 4: Right? Exactly what do you create the angels for? And
then how come I wasn't enough? Like I wasn't enough.
Speaker 1: I got to do more, basically saying like he's greedy,
like yeah, but to think that, like human beings out
of all the entire universe, right, you have Earth, multiple planets,
multiple galaxies, we are the ones that he needs to
worship him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it's it's on us, man, that's a lot
of responsibility, right, And.
Speaker 1: We're not that smart of a species. I'm sorry, we're
not because we're not a lot.
Speaker 2: Of us are not? Should I say?
Speaker 1: But I mean it's not We're fantastic, you know humans are.
Oh yeah, okay, but for us to be the thing
that an all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent deity needs to
worship it, Yeah, sometimes I think that their god is
like possibly like a five year old playing Sam's in
another galaxy.
Speaker 4: It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he's mad at his mom, so he sends
the earth quake.
Speaker 6: Yeah he does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he got put on, he got put on time out.
Speaker 1: So it's sent a pestilence. Yeah, I'm telling you, like
some something's going on, somebody don't like somebody somebody and
don't want to do homework.
Speaker 2: Or something because he throws a lot of temp potentiums.
Speaker 1: Uh. I think just think about the fact that he
floods the world, right, like he creates humans, He goes
they're wicked. So I'm just going to kill all of them.
There's no law. It doesn't like really say what wickedness
they were doing? Right, there's no law nothing.
Speaker 5: He just.
Speaker 1: Kills them all, just just ends. Yeah, it's that's atentium.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you remember I told you before we went on that.
Speaker 5: Uh yeah.
Speaker 4: The comments in my my videos, my clips are I've
been a little extra spicy this week and one in
particular set and I'm sure you get this a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, where do you get your morality from?
Speaker 4: If not God?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's that's a popular one.
Speaker 4: Huh. Yes, I hear that. Yeah, yeah they think they do.
And then all it takes is like I don't know,
five maybe ten minutes to just pull the curtain bag
on that.
Speaker 3: Nope, you don't have it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's about as relative as it goes yep, because
I wonder.
Speaker 1: Like they can't explain to me what's the difference between
me saying that I think it's wrong to kill another
human and them saying they think it's wrong to kill
another human because that is grounded in their belief in
this God. Right, what's the difference if if we both
believe that it's wrong to kill another human?
Speaker 4: Exactly, if we both believe it's wrong, except what's the
exception unless God says it's okay.
Speaker 1: Right, But then they'll say, well, you will kill someone
for self defense, right, and so Yeah, but if we're
ultimately because there is a greater opportunity for them to okay.
Speaker 2: Murder or you.
Speaker 1: Know, genocide if their God says it it's okay, which
is I think more dangerous. Right, But if we are
both saying don't kill, they'll say, well, yours doesn't count
because it isn't rooted in.
Speaker 2: In a god.
Speaker 4: Yeah that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it makes absolutely
no sense.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the oh yeah.
Speaker 4: I know, I know we've we're dancing around this, but yeah,
the when the field ros come on, Well, you don't
have a grounding for your morality, or you don't have
a grounding for your logic, And I'm thinking, well, what
if what if the grounding for morality is what society
comes up with, you know, because that's all we need
and coming to the same conclusions and it works, What
what do we need it for?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, then they'll they'll say, well, how do you know
who's right in society?
Speaker 6: You know, and.
Speaker 1: They don't realize that morality is subjective and that as
as humanity, like, we've had to grow, we've made mistakes
with morality, right, and and we've had to grow. And
even with this belief in a god or God's humanity
still didn't get it right.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I don't think we still still we don't have it
right anything.
Speaker 7: It was worse, yeah, yeah, if anything, Yeah, exactly, you know,
oh man, so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean.
Speaker 1: We're still we're still waiting on calls. If you're out
there and TikTok land, don't be afraid to call in
or to request on TikTok you can hit the request
and come up on stage, and then you can also call.
If you're in a YouTube land and you're you're you're
not on TikTok, you can call us at five point
two nine nine one ninety two four to two.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're here, you know, and you know I take
it from this position, and I and I and maybe
I don't know where you're at on this, but here
I'll ask you. So I take it from the position
like I want to be convinced. I want to hear evidence.
And let me ask you this. If you heard convincing
evidence or just evidence that was legitimate, that was verified,
that you could falsify, and to your satisfaction, it pointed
to a god existing, would you then believe it?
Speaker 1: I would have no choice because exactly, I'm I'm rooted
in evidence and logic, right. Exactly, if you point to
a plant there and say, hey, there's a plant standing there,
I'm sitting there, then I have the except that there's
a plant there, right. And I always say, if NASA
tomorrow built this high power telescope allows you to look
through the telescope and you could see this God sitting
on the throne, I would not deny the God's existence.
But the question is then would I worship the God?
That's a different conversation. Yes, And I think a lot
of believers don't quite understand that.
Speaker 2: They think that belief equals worship.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they kind of have their work cut out
for them twice, because first you have to convince me
that a god is and then you have to convince
me that your God is worthy of me worshiping it
or you know, committing to it. And then I realized
that a lot of us don't know what covenant is,
Like they don't know.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't know what that is.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I've gotten some discussions about that. I just
be like, hey, I'm an atheist. I don't send no
yes you.
Speaker 1: Do, like, no, no, no, I don't have covenant with God.
What are you talking about. The covenants for the whole
world is universal. I didn't sign nothing. Exactly who's my signature?
Speaker 5: Exactly?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: I would agree with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there was a guy who's about once saved,
always saved, and he was trying to convince us that
we could not rescind our salvation. Like he said, you
are purchased with the blood, you are always God's Like
it sounds creepy, dude, it does.
Speaker 4: It does sound creepy. It does like we're Barbie dolls
or something like that. Yeah, brought us at toy story
like Nope, nope, nope, can't.
Speaker 2: Not able to go.
Speaker 1: And then like even going as far as saying like
you cannot blasphem the whole spirit, Like I'm starting to
even notice the terms and conditions of the covenant change
because they being like, growing up, I was always told
you cannot be forgiven for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 4: Yeah now you can, yeah apparently yeah, always exceptions, right, yeah,
always exceptions.
Speaker 1: And then he said humans can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
Jesus only said that to them back then, And I'm like,
y'all is going to keep changing the terms of conditions. Yeah,
because I think non believers are cool. I think non
believers are like they don't want to close this thing
out until I don't know the the non believers are
a part of it, because I think, which is pretty
great people, Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4: But then that leads to the other one, which is
how they just kind of quietly softened.
Speaker 3: What hell is?
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's just eternal separation from God? But
wait a minute, isn't God always present? How can you
be separated from someone that's always or present, that's every
omni you know, omnipresent?
Speaker 3: How how does that? How does that work?
Speaker 4: Well, he chooses to do that, but how if he's
omni present.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did it Just it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: Just yeah, and you just it just twists him up
and oh yeah, it just ends up not making sense.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so again, so I see in the TikTok comments.
The topic today is why do how do you, as
a believer identify what is metaphorical versus what is lyrical
literal in the Bible? And if you could help us understand,
like when we talk about slavery in the Bible and
Levitik is twenty five and you say that this God
is good, but some people say, oh, the slavery isn't
it's symboli for something else, or it's not that kind
of slavery. Oh, God wasn't talking to people today, He
was only talking to the agilize back then. How how
do you decide when you're the God in this Bible?
The words in this Bible are talking to people in
the late Bronze Age, or in first century Rome, or
today in twenty twenty six, or even during the first
beginning of the Christian the Christian movement, like how do.
How do you decide when these words apply into whom?
That is the topic today. If you are a Bible
a Bible dumper, or a Bible believer and you feel
you can't answer that question, we would love.
Speaker 2: To talk with you.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, speaking of Bible thumpers. Yeah, I've been doing
like an informal poll against our friendlies in our community.
All right, how are the conversations when you get that
inevitable knock at the door. They might not knock at
your door anymore, but you know, probably since you've deconstructed,
you've probably gotten at least one. Really no, oh, I
got to go move in your neighborhood.
Speaker 1: I don't think no, Like I haven't gotten a Jehovah
witness or a Mormon at my door in years.
Speaker 4: Goodness, that's uh hmm man, that's something you know, up
until recently, they would come to my door at least
once every couple months, at least up until recently. With
the JW's, I just said, okay, you know, I just
want to let you all know because I resisted saying this,
but yeah, I actually have online conversations about beliefs. So
next time I'll just bring the camera out and we
can have it on camera, and that of course will
be like, no, no, we can't do that. Okay, well
just just let you just let everybody know at the
Kingdom Hall that next time y'all come, there'll be a
camera waiting for you. And they haven't come since.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Someone actually did that on TikTok. Yeah, Into the Mind.
Did you see it where a JW came to his
door and he was on live while the JWS yah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 1: I remember, yes, yes, oh yeah, that was great.
Speaker 4: And I and now I'm kind of looking forward to it,
you know because and you know the last time, the
last time a JW did knock on the door, it
was uh, it was man and a woman, you know,
it was and they looked like they were a retirement.
Speaker 1: Age, you know, and they.
Speaker 4: So the woman was like, oh yeah, yeah, this was
like my first time out you know, doing doing called
and I'm like, oh boy. And so I just went
straight to Second Samuel chapter twelve, you know, David Bethsheba,
the Wives. You know, that's like, because I'm undefeated on that,
you can't guard me on that. And I just went
straight to that, and I just I looked at her
cold dead in her face, and I said, so, let
me get this straight. If God gives you to your
neighbor to punish your husband because your husband committed adultery
against you and then killed the husband of the person
he's having an affair with, are you telling me that
that's a just and loving punishment for your husband to
have you.
Speaker 1: Taken?
Speaker 4: And she said to me, Wow, this is very uncomfortable.
And I'm like, yes, it's uncomfortable. Yes, it's uncomfortable. She says, well,
I haven't really read too deeply into it.
Speaker 1: Like, lady, what you.
Speaker 2: Got to read?
Speaker 4: They never have, They never have, Like what you got
to read? It's a priss question.
Speaker 1: We do have a call a caller. I'm going to
bring a mom. We have Adrian from California. He wants
to ask us why we are not believers. Adrian, are
you there?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 6: I am good. Afternoon evening wherever y'all at Trump of
a Verifire Evening to you.
Speaker 1: Sir Adrian, I can barely hear you. Are you able
to turn your device up a little bit? I don't
know if the host crew, the production.
Speaker 5: Is that better mm hmmmm a little bit?
Speaker 6: If I gotta if I gotta talk a little bit louder.
I could or take off my headphones.
Speaker 4: I can.
Speaker 1: Can you hear him better? Trusts a little bit better? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe your mouth closer to the mic a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe something like that.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, so I hope this works out a little.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's let's roll with it.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, And you want to know why we
aren't believers?
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, this is my Yeah, I don't want to then. Also,
you know Bible, this Bible, lad, I want to get
to know who I'm engaging with for the very first time.
That's just how I wrote. So this is why, this
is why I want to know where you know, I
do want to see where y'all coming from. I just
got home from work, so I am a little flustered
a little bit, so please bear with me. But yeah,
that's that's the vibe that I'm coming with right now.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't believe because I read the Bible. Same, Yeah,
read and studied the Bible. I was a believer for
like I said, twenty eight years and I did believe
that I was in a relationship with a deity that
I could never see. But as I started to read
and study, I realized that what I was taught growing
up was mostly mythologies, historical fiction, oral traditions that were
added to the stories in the Bible, like some of
the traditions that we're taught, for example, stories about like
Adam and Eve and the rapture and the devil getting
thrown down from heaven, having a war with God, wanted
to take over his throne and all of that, those
were oral traditions that are actually not in the text.
And so the more I studied, deconstructing just kind of
became a thing. And then I realized that I was
convincing myself that I was in relationship with this God,
and that everything I believed that the God was blessing
me with, I in fact was doing myself. And so
I just, you know, slowly but surely became okay, what
about you trust? Yeah, a lot of the same thing.
Speaker 4: I was a Christian for over thirty years, and in fact,
when I was seventeen, i'd made the decision to join
a seminary, like to go to seminary school.
Speaker 6: And seminary school okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I go to seminary school, and the first
advice I got was to read the Bible in its entirety.
And that was the first time I'd ever read the
Bible from first page the last.
Speaker 3: And needless to.
Speaker 4: Say, when I got done, I had a lot of questions,
a lot of questions. And when I went back and
asked those questions, then that only invited more questions. And
you know, and I was told various things like, well,
once you go back and read it, you know, you know,
pray to God first and then read it again. And
you know, some things are you know, we just don't
understand God with our finite minds.
Speaker 3: You know, I got those answers.
Speaker 4: And as time went on, I did read it many
many times, multiple times again and again, trying to reconcile
a lot of the things that I found troubling, and uh,
it just never added up. And and it just out
to a point finally where I just said, just like
what Thinker said, I just I just don't believe this.
Speaker 3: I just realized that I don't believe it.
Speaker 4: And I think what kept me in it for so
long though, Adrian was the fear of hell, and.
Speaker 6: That's one of my that's one of my favorite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it just what if I'm wrong. And but see,
here's the thing.
Speaker 4: The other thing I realized is that I started looking
into other religions because I I went from Christian to deist,
then to agnostic, then to an agnostic atheist, right, And
so in my time as a deist, I looked at
other religions and what I discovered is that they all
pretty much say the same things. Like, for example, it
says in the Qur'an, you know there is no God
but Allah. Right. It also says that if you don't
believe this, then Allah will burn you in eternal fire
for lake of fire forever. Right, So it clearly says that.
It clearly says things like you know you've been deceived.
It says that in the bagav Geta for Hinduism, you
know there's the maya that's been pulled over your eyes
to deceive you of the truth. It says that in Buddhism,
it says that in like all of these different religions
and so Adrian, if they're saying all the same things,
how could.
Speaker 3: We know which one is saying the true thing?
Speaker 5: I could see that could be.
Speaker 6: Where an anostic will come in and be like, this
is my personal opinion. I'm no scholar. I'm just a
brother that be with the Bible straight up right. I
will feel that position will be like something that a
gnostic will take, like I'm not really sure if we
have a creator and not you do have a legit
question of saying which one is true or not. That's
where I think what you talked about are like finite
human humanness comes in because we don't know what is
true or not. I think that's where the hope and
the and the faith comes in to see which one
you will be left to to see which one is
true or not?
Speaker 2: What What are you do you believe? Are you a believer?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, I do believe.
Speaker 2: Why do you believe?
Speaker 6: From what I tell people? Mainly personal experience, some athees
that I've talked to, some that I'm very cool with,
shout out to Rainbow sixty sixty six and resist.
Speaker 5: Right, they know.
Speaker 6: What I based it off of, like my personal life,
dismiss like basically the blessings that I feel that I've
had in my life. That's what I point out to
first and foremost, and just secondly, what what mister uh,
what mister trust came with the fair and hell that's
definitely one. That's that's another one, and three. Just just
I don't know nothing, nothing has told me or convinced
me otherwise that the daughter Israel is not real? Can
I can I just say before you ask your question,
and I don't want to be disrespectful, and I don't
want to think that I'm cutting y'all off and purpose
nothing like that. Like again, that's not how I wrote,
But I do want to ask. I do want to
say full and techrid intact that currently this year, this
is my very first time reading the Old Testament, and
I can say that there are contentions points in the
Old test yet that they are troublesome to say the least.
You know, first cousin marriages and hash to have brother
marriages and all that. How how women at that time
were seen as property and stuff like that. And I
can see how stories like a talking donkey for the
oracles from bay Love or or prophecies quote unquote from
from a bad Solomon could be stuff that y'all don't
believe in, So like that, I could see that being But.
Speaker 1: Because I want to focus on what you said about
why you do believe right, and you said you believed
because of personal experiences and that you have not been convinced.
He said, there's nothing that has convinced you that the
God of Israel is not real. And so what I
would love to talk about is what has convinced you
that the God in this Bible Israel.
Speaker 2: That's that's what I.
Speaker 1: Would like to talk about with you. And so if
you can share that with me, what is it that
the God of Israel has done for you that you yourself,
you know that you don't have anything to do with it? Like,
how do you know that a god has done anything
for you? Can you answer that for me?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Of course.
Speaker 6: And this is what I tell all my atheist friends
right again, like the spars, whether you believe it or not.
But I prayed sincerely my to Buddha, not to Allah,
not to no one else, but the God Israel for
nine straight years when it came to who I want
for my wife, right damn to the ethnicity, her personality, everything,
and and I and I bsh'all not. She is everything
that I prayed and the hope for, so that if
I could say what my prime example is.
Speaker 4: And will be her all right, So let me ask
you this. So if a Hindu h does the same
exact prayer that you do, and they get the exact
spouse that they prayed for. Does that and they prayed
to Krishna? Does that mean that Hinduism is true?
Speaker 6: Good question. I believe that my my faith, holiness faith.
I don't say I'm a Christian or because Christianity is
not in the Bible, but being the Holy is I
don't know, you know, pull integrity attack.
Speaker 5: I didn't.
Speaker 6: I don't want to disrespect and say, like, you know
what I mean, Like he may be wrong, but if
I believe that there is only one true God, I'll
just probably want to tell him like, hey, hey, good coincidence,
even though I don't personally believe in the coincidences.
Speaker 5: But I don't know what.
Speaker 6: This genuous? I'm sorry, what is it.
Speaker 1: Exactly that you are saying? Yah? Way did like the
God of Israel did?
Speaker 6: Uh answered my prayers?
Speaker 1: And I'm asking for no, no, no, I'm asking for
the mechanism.
Speaker 2: What did he do?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: You are the one? How Like you are the one
that walked up through her and talked to her right,
Like you're the one that took her out on the date.
You're the one who who built the relationship with her.
You're the one who asked her to marry or you're
the one who walked down the aisle, like what did
he do? And how are how can you uh show
evidence that he is the one who brought her into
your life?
Speaker 6: Good question and as simply again phone tagrigy attack right,
the circumstances of how I met her?
Speaker 5: That was.
Speaker 6: Through a mutual friend. And see that mutual friend. That
was the scene that was played like years and years ago.
Speaker 1: So what's the mutual friend? How I'm trying to friend, Jesus,
I'm trying to I'm asking you to point to the
God like everything I hear is humans.
Speaker 6: I just I just feel that the the circumstances of
how of how we came together, of how of how
like how she is the epiti of what I prayed
about for the proper wife that I wanted. I can't
explain it any other way without.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Okay, Well how about this why I believe it?
Speaker 4: Okay, then what what method could we use two determine
if it was God that put her into your life,
that made this all happen, that orchestrated this, or if
it was coincidence.
Speaker 6: Now you're you're asking that to a person that don't
believe in coincidences at all. So right, and I don't
want to measure.
Speaker 1: This isn't supernatural.
Speaker 2: This isn't a miracle.
Speaker 1: It took nine years for you to find the perfect
woman for you, and that's because you knew what you
wanted and you kept looking, like right, you would you
would date and then not, you know, decide that that's.
Speaker 2: The woman that you want.
Speaker 1: I don't see anything supernatural in this nine years mm hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, and.
Speaker 6: Maybe it had to take that long for my own
for my own because back then I was I was,
I was just being ruthless. So maybe I had to
take that long for me to get my own mind
right to receive that.
Speaker 4: Can I stop you right there? Because because what thinker
asked was for, yeah, thank you. What thinker asked for
was evidence that of what it was right, And so
you would agree that maybe isn't evidence.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a my gream is to maybe.
Speaker 4: Right. So what we're that's what we're looking for. Uh,
We're looking for evidence. And so that's why I went back,
That's why I asked you originally, how could we test
that and or how could we test that it actually
was God and not something else? Or how do we
test it was God? It was Yahweh and not Krishna?
How do we test it was Yahweh and not Odin
from Norse paganism?
Speaker 6: Okay, so let me ask y'all in what will be
a macularism then for to go and test prayer.
Speaker 3: That's what we're asking you, Like you're.
Speaker 1: Hold on, You're basically saying that something supernatural, something outside
of the natural, helped you find your wife. Right, So
what you would have to produce is something outside of
the natural doing just that, not not you crediting something
outside of the natural. You would have to produce something
that's breaking the laws of physics, right that That face
the definition of supernatural, because everything that you're talking about
human beings are doing and you're just giving credit to
a god because you said some you said a prayer,
Like literally, it took you nine years. It takes humans
that long find the perfect the perfect spout if they
ever do find the perfect spouse right like right now,
it may be perfect for you. You may be perfect
for her, but you don't know what's going to happen
down the world. You have no idea, right, so it's perfect.
Hold on though it's perfect today. Everything that you are
talking about is human. It's what humans do. Like you're
not talking about anything supernatural, and so like what I want.
I don't know if you have another another experience. But
what I'm looking for is the thing that you said,
I believe because the God of Israel has proven himself.
Speaker 2: To me to be real to exist with.
Speaker 1: How like have you seen something like have you seen
the God of Israel? Have you seen you know him
do something outside of the what's considered to be natural? Here,
how did the God of Israel I've had.
Speaker 6: I had dreams years ago, like, but I'm not going
to even go there though it's I mean, I'm just
appreciating the nature. I mean, the air that I breathed.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's.
Speaker 6: That's that's how I know. And like and like I said,
like the woman, I don't know, I can't I can't
definitively tell you like I don't have a thing, a
big old thing of evidence in my right hand and
saying here, this is how I know my prayer for
my wife has worked and to satisfied what y'all looking
for I don't know. I don't think I'm able to
do that.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well let me ask you this. Let me ask
you this. You you know your wife's real?
Speaker 5: Right? Yes?
Speaker 4: How do you know?
Speaker 5: I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 6: Okay, and I know where you're coming with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like you have like you see her, right,
you talk to her like if you like if because
like if I ask you for evidence that your wife
is real, like if I let's just say I was
just a little out of pocket, I'm like, nah, I
don't believe you're married. Bro, I don't believe that. I
would never say that, but let's just say I did.
I was just out of pocket. You would easily be
able to show me that you're married, right, easily? Like
it take you maybe five minutes. Yeah, you probably call
her up on the phone, you could, you know? And
if I was just if I went that far out
of pocket, like, well, how do I know that's your wife?
I mean you could go as far as to say,
produce a marriage certificate, right or take me to your
house and show me, yeah, this is my wife. Would
you like to meet?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: And I say, hell, how are you doing? Missus Adrian.
It should be that easy for a god.
Speaker 4: Don't you think if this God is real, if this
is actually a being, this god should be able. You
should be able to produce that type of evidence as
easily as you should be able to produce it for
your wife.
Speaker 5: I can't. How can I say this?
Speaker 6: I respect you argue it. And again I'm not dismissing
what you're saying. Yes, the God of Israel is not
in front of.
Speaker 5: Me right now.
Speaker 6: Yes the God of Israel is not where I pur
stigically touch him. I understand that. But it's just with
my whole.
Speaker 1: What does that?
Speaker 2: What can he do?
Speaker 1: You're saying that he showed you that he is real,
even if you can't see him. What can he do
outside of a human being? Like if even I trust
didn't see your wife writ and you say, well, my
wife fixed me a beautiful lunch. Right you come to work,
have a lunch packed by your wife, a note you know,
signed by her? Right here, this is what my wife did.
What can he do outside of a human being? And
like and you're talking about the air you breathe, like
y'all do realize like photosynthesis is thing? Like you are
breathing oxygen and you don't die when you go to sleep, right,
Like your lung still works.
Speaker 3: Nervous system in our bodies. Yet we can explain all that. Yeah,
he's not.
Speaker 1: Coming by, and you know, breathing in your nostrils every
morning so that you you know, jump start and puff
up and start then again. Right, we're trying to understand.
You are saying that this immaterial entity right is engaging
with the material realm with you as a physical being,
and we're asking how what is it that it does?
Speaker 5: What do you have?
Speaker 1: Maybe if I ask it this way, what do you
have access to as a believer of this god? Okay,
here in the physical realm? What can you do or
what can this god do for you that we don't
have access to as it is?
Speaker 6: I guess.
Speaker 5: This is just off the top.
Speaker 6: I'm just guessing that it will be, that access will
be will be prior and being humble about it. I mean,
I don't want to sound quote unquote cliche with whatever,
but that's human.
Speaker 2: That's you doing.
Speaker 1: And then if I wanted to, I could pray to
myself and be humble to myself. I don't need to
do that to yahweh I'm asking what do you, as
a believer of the God of Israel have access to you? Right,
what is the benefit that you have here in the
physical world as a believer of this god that I
don't have access to? Like we both like, we both breathe,
We both breathe, right, we both can can fall in
love right and and marry somebody or you know, date
whoever we want to date. We both eat, we both
have houses, cars, like we have access to those things.
What do you have access to that we don't as
atheists here in the physical world.
Speaker 6: I don't even know how to put it. It would
probably just be that because this is how it affected me,
Like and this is just being burnt. I guess it's
just that drive to go and go in the Bible
and try to learn more about it. My driver is
trying to expand my understanding and expand my knowledge. Like,
this is why I try to reach.
Speaker 5: I want to learn.
Speaker 6: I got I got it. I do angry too, angry too,
I want to learn to fall. I'm going too.
Speaker 1: But I'm just Adrian. I'm an atheist, and I did
learn Hebrew so that I could read the Bible. I
read Hebrew, and I didn't need your God to move
me to do that. I'm asking what do you have
access to that I don't as a non believer, because
right now I have access to the language that you're God.
Speaker 2: Use when he gave them the Torah, and you don't
and you are a believer.
Speaker 6: I mean when it comes to when it comes to
trying to break down stuff and Hebrew and Greek and
all that, like, I do got those type of resources
for me, So when it's.
Speaker 3: Not for me, yeah, I mean I don't. I don't
know Hebrew and Greek.
Speaker 4: But I can just go online and look at the translations,
you know, and it'll translate it to English or whatever
language I want, you know, from ancient Hebrew to ancient Greek,
or I can shoot, I could DM Thinker and say hey,
what do you think about this, you know, and she
could tell me. Yeah.
Speaker 6: But you said that, you said the question question.
Speaker 2: But I'm push back on what you said.
Speaker 1: You said that what you have that we don't have
is your God will give you the desire to read
the Bible, right to go deeper and understand it. Except
we probably, like I know, Trust reached the Bible probably
almost every day because Trust host lives. I read the
Bible every day, right, and yah wagh isn't and we
don't have a relationship with the God of Israel. But
you're saying that's the thing that you have over us
as a believer.
Speaker 6: I'm not defendively saying that. I'm saying that might be
the case. Again, Like, I don't really know how to
answer your question because full integrity, intact, because I really
don't know what is really the difference, Because we're both
doing the same thing, We're both reading or both trying
to understand, we're both trying to dig into different translations
and all that other good stuff. I'm just thinking it's
probably and I don't I don't know, I don't know.
Let me just detainly just say that I'm not sure
at this point.
Speaker 5: Is that is that?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.
Speaker 4: Well, let me let me ask you. Let me ask
it this way here, here's kind of another way we
can ask it. If you found out, like right after
we stopped talking, like we ended this conversation, if if
it just it's some evidence just hits you that no
gods exist, let's just just kind of sit on that
for a second. Yeah, it's hypothetical, and I don't know
what that is. I'm not telling you exist, I'm just asked.
I'm just saying, if you just discovered it or came
across it, and then you verified that evidence to be true,
that that no gods exist, how would your life change?
Speaker 3: Right at that moment?
Speaker 6: I will feel, honestly, I will feel Number one, that
I'm in jeffard of of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
That's number one.
Speaker 4: Number two that you came across. It's just evidence that
you came across, and it's undeniable, you know, like as
undeniable as evidence that your wife is real. It's that
kind of evidence, all right, It's that level. So I'm
trying to so just to just kind of a society.
Speaker 6: It would it would mess me up. It really would
mess me up.
Speaker 3: And I appreciate it because I wouldn't.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, because I hope this is coming from
someone that I wholeheartedly believes that the Bible is true.
So if I've come across unequivalental and like just knock
your soft off, freaking like yo, like this is some
real I will question the I would then question the
validity because I'm already dealing with copyist errors when it
comes to First Saritule and the first Chronicles, I'm already
dealing with that as it is.
Speaker 4: If there was any Yeah, those aren't.
Speaker 1: Those aren't copyist errors. You're not dealing with copyist errors.
And I think, like, do you do you know what
blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's funny. We were just talking about that thing, like.
Speaker 6: I don't think you know, it's basically denying that the
Holy Spirit against Essentially.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's lying on the Holy Spirit, right, speaking
against the Holy Spirit. Right, it's not denying that it exists.
If you don't know, you don't know. If you're not
experienced it, you haven't experienced it, right, You can't say
something that doesn't exist that you have not experienced it.
But the the thing is, I think that you're approaching
your study from a place of fear, and you're saying,
I believe the God of Israel exists, I believe that
everything in the Bible is true, well, not having actually
validated the claims in the book, because I think you're
afraid to approach it. I think you're afraid of what
you might find out and because you're afraid of that,
you might blasphem and you're afraid of hell.
Speaker 2: And I and I understand that.
Speaker 6: I'm not worried to even try to entertain being a papstate,
you know, because that's a possible I'm sorry, you know what, apostle, apostecy,
I'm not even not even yeah, I'm not even trying
to play with that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, why why is it?
Speaker 6: Let me think that goes and that goes to the
to the to the root problem of in my opinion,
blasphe me, uh, against the whole expirit and not entertainment.
Speaker 1: So right, but yeah, I'm really trying to blasphame against
the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, we're not trying to do trying to
get you. We're not trying to Yeah, yeah, but but
I think we're and I respect that.
Speaker 6: I respect definitely, and I appreciate that, and I do
and I'm glad Raino told me to come through go
talk to y'all, because, to be honest, is a rarity
to see a brother and the sister being an atheist,
at least in my world.
Speaker 5: So so it's it's kind of it that's what kind.
Speaker 6: Of made me even more and to call y'all because
I see y'all on TikTok. I don't do TikTok. It
is really YouTube, and I think, yeah, let me go
and talk to And since I've been exposed to black
as like and deroance A was my very first one.
I said, no, this is that's that's out there and
a shout out.
Speaker 1: What happened to?
Speaker 3: What happened there? He's still with us, Adrian, Oh he dropped, Oh,
he dropped.
Speaker 2: Oh, maybe maybe he'll call back.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Maybe that was a good call. Yeah, that was a
really good call. That was such a good question. And
I had a good question for him too. I had
a really good question for him.
Speaker 1: I think he's definitely scared. Uh, like the whole black
I got that was beat into us? Don't you play
with the Holy Spirit like that was beat into us?
Speaker 3: Mess with the Holy Spirit exactly?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah. Because he didn't even want
to go there, he didn't want to talk about that.
We didn't even we weren't even talking about that. We
were just I just simply asked him, it'll.
Speaker 1: Keep you from question and it'll keep you for questioning
really quickly and now from a word from our fellow host,
Jamie the Blindlimey about an exciting May event.
Speaker 8: Jamie the Blind Lime here and I've got some interesting
news for you. On Saturday, May sixteenth, at six pm,
we'll be hosting our twenty four hour we Are Here
live stream and fundraiser to highlight secular voices around the world.
We've invited dozens of your favorite content creators like genetically
Modified Skeptic, the Antibot, Justin d Z and more to
let the world know that we are here and we're
not going anywhere. If you're here in Austin, come join
us at Free Thought Library at fifteen oh seven West
cain Igline. Well, we'll be kicking things off in style,
and if you're online, do join us on the Atheist
Experience channel to check out the stream and join in
the fund. So join us from wherever you are in
the world, and together we can dedicate ourselves to secular
humanist values wherever we are.
Speaker 1: That sounds like that's going to be a pretty cool event.
Speaker 4: I wish I could be around for that.
Speaker 1: I know my son's graduating.
Speaker 4: Oh congratulations, the last one last Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I also want to give a big shout out
and a big Thank you to the crew who put
the show together every week, to our video operators, our
audio operators, and the note takers, the call screeners, the
chat moderators. Thank you so much guys for all that
you do. It definitely would not be a show without you,
for sure. Yeah, and if you would like to be
one of those attractive crew members, will be a guest
on one of our shows or eventually even become a
host like me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We're always looking for people interested in being part of
our production, so email volunteer at Atheist dash community dot
org to get involved and trust are you ready to
take another call? I think we're gonna we have two
people waiting in Q on TikTok, so we're gonna switch
to the TikTok Q. Let's do it, okay and see
what we got going on over here.
Speaker 2: My question, well, everybody, I think these are all friendlies.
Speaker 1: Those are yeah, there are those are nerds and the guests.
Speaker 4: Great.
Speaker 1: If you're in the guest request on TikTok on accident,
go ahead and check it out. See if you're in
there accident. Actually, Adrian called back in. Do you want
to finish the college?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that's good.
Speaker 1: All right, Well we'll finish with Adrian and then we'll
take the next call.
Speaker 4: Okay, after that, all right.
Speaker 5: Good to go?
Speaker 6: All right, don't people, I don't want to. You know,
I do value other people's time and all that I
do value.
Speaker 5: No, No, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, Now I had I had another question for you, sir,
if your belief were false, what would it cost.
Speaker 1: You personally.
Speaker 6: If it were false?
Speaker 4: It will be if it were false, Yeah, on.
Speaker 6: Some real full integritin tech. I think I will lose
a little bit of self confidence, a little bit of
a little bit of a little bit of less hope
of what to see in the afterlife.
Speaker 4: Okay? And is that cost the hope that what you've
seen in the after life and your self confidence? Do
you do you think that's influencing? How much evidence that
you're demanding?
Speaker 5: You know what?
Speaker 6: Something told me to go and call y'all like, that's
a very that's a very good question. Can you repeat
that one more time?
Speaker 1: Tark, I have that thinking and take that with it absolutely.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Is that cost influencing?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 3: How much evidence that you were demanding?
Speaker 5: You know, sir?
Speaker 6: I think it is. I mean I listen to one
of one of my one of my close friends, feel right,
he's a secarate humanist and we have this little we
have this little rapping thing that we do on this
for you know, coming from his expective and my perspective
and stuff like that, and it's it's that's a and
what like I bring him up because I have to
push his back on how I believe my beliefs, this
of it. I like stuff like my last conversation with Justin.
I like to talk with y'aws so I could bring
something home and whether I take it or not, that's totally.
Speaker 5: Up to me.
Speaker 6: But I like to take it, take it with me,
and like and really chew on it so I know
for sure when I talk to somebody, yeah, this is
why I believe that whatever the case is or or
this is why, this is why they have their opinions
on on their push back and like I like to
take all of that so I can make it, you know,
have my whole understanding way everything and.
Speaker 4: Answer that question yes, yeah, yeah, you absolutely did, and
thank you for that.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate the unsty on that too. So just
one last follow up to that, if.
Speaker 6: I if I may just say like I have no
reason to lie to y'all or no reason to lie
say anybody. I don't want to compromise my integrity for nobody,
So I'm coming with you with real.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, So okay, So then the so then the last
question for this little bit is are you following evidence
or avoiding a painful possibility? Because it sounds like a
sounds like a pretty heavy cost if the way you're
putting it for you.
Speaker 6: Because I I go, I said, like, if I had
twelve toes, I stand twelve toes on what I believe in.
So if if there was something that even an inkling
of a of a crack in it, that's why I'm
diving into the Old Testament so I have a better
understanding of where people are coming from. And so farth
this is why I got different translations than lexicons and
all that stuff, Like I really want to know that, hey,
what I believe in is really one because if not,
then what is their hope or what is the hope
after we go back to the dust, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 4: So, so that is a.
Speaker 1: I'm listening, like you've mentioned your integrity alive and it
just like it makes me wonder which actually matters more
to you the you know, the fear of finding out
that what you believe in it does not actually hold
up to your standard of what to your integrity, right
to what you consider to be integral or your integrity
because like like which one is it's more important?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Like which which one actually matters.
Speaker 6: To integrity or the Bible's integrity.
Speaker 1: Nor belief, your integrity or your belief like your your belief.
Speaker 2: You're integrated at.
Speaker 1: Two different things, right because right and like for For example,
there's a story in the Bible in Genesis twenty where
Abraham goes before the Abimelech and he uh tells a
half truth. Right, he lies by mission to the Abimelec,
and he does not tell the Abimelec that Sarah is
his wife. And the God shows up to a Bimelec
in his dream and threatens to kill a Bimelec and says, uh,
give you have a man's wife, and there I'm going
to kill you if you don't give him back, And
Abimelet goes, wait, I'm innocent. I acted in integrity. Right,
he is the one who put me in this situation.
And your God, yeahweh says, Yeah, I know you innocent,
I know you acted in integrity, but I'm still going
to kill you. Right, So integrity in that moment didn't
matter to your God. What mattered to your God was
the chosen.
Speaker 5: So so.
Speaker 1: For you, like you've talked about your integrity a lot,
does it matter to you that integrity isn't that important
to your God as it is to you.
Speaker 6: And I'll say that was a good example that you
brought up. Honestly, that was a good example. They are
two different things. I know that that is something that
he does look for in people. Is integrity, Now, dude,
I think there's a different plane or different level of
how he sees how important integrity is. Integrated. Is integrity
is as supposed to like say, faith and hope and
so forth. I'm not sure, but I do know that
it is important. But with this example that you pointed out,
it probably was trumped by what you said because Abraham
was chosen.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just need to understand because I'm I'm
confused by your What do you mean they are different?
What do you mean he does look for integrity? Like
I'm confused, Like, what do you what do you mean
they're different. What do you mean it's different? What's different?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 6: Integrity and belief were different? Did you did you point out, yeah,
but there were two different things, and I was right
and right, but I mean with that statement.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what is your response to the fact
that your God does not prioritize integrity as much as
you do? What is your response to that?
Speaker 6: That's that's a that's a good question. And again, like
how I was how I was trying to answer, was
that maybe, for example, maybe ihold integrity, say at level seven,
and and the God Israel will probably see in the
integrity I say level four. But maybe I see my
I say faith at level five, and he sees you that,
and he demands you have your faith in say level eight.
It's probably different gages.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
Speaker 6: I'm just I'm trying to be honest.
Speaker 1: I know I and I appreciate your honesty, but I
don't I don't think you quite understand, like why would
you have a higher standard of truth than your than
your God.
Speaker 6: It's a good question. It's a good question. And maybe
I maybe I personally see integrity as very important in
in my life. That's that's probably what it is. I
probably hold it to a to another pet of school
as a high higher.
Speaker 1: Than your God.
Speaker 6: I hear what you're saying, and I hear it should
say it.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that you understand, Okay.
Speaker 4: Trust, Yeah, the observation I was gonna make. And actually
this little talk about integrity, I think even underlines is further.
But it sounds like you're you may not be defending
truth right now so much as you're defending the price
tag of changing your mind.
Speaker 3: How does that How does that hit?
Speaker 6: Probably could I say, maybe even chiller both Maybe I'm
as in I'm trying to seek truth and also at
the same time, I guess trying to express that that
despite what I've read so far and so forth, that
you know, in my life and experiences and so forth,
I'm still I'm still here. I'm still here with my belief.
Speaker 5: I guess.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, it just it's well, it just sounds like the
cost of that you that you told us about, you know,
the loss of the potential loss of hope or what
you described as loss of hope. And oh, I forget
what the other one was, but that one I remembers,
the disappointment would be there too disappointment. Yeah, so that
potential disappointment, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And it sounds like
you're more managing that than.
Speaker 3: The un like the uncomfortable truth.
Speaker 4: It sounds like you know that if if you found
out otherwise, that the truth would be uncomfortable for you,
very uncomfortable. And that I think is you're the fear
of that seems to be higher than the truth itself.
Speaker 5: There's lift blocks, but they're both there.
Speaker 4: I'll give you that, okay, but it sounds like you're
weighing them, you know, like it's on a scale. And
because like because after you dropped, you know, think and
I were talking about how because we we both held
this fear, we we we both acknowledged this, that fear
of blaspheming in the Holy Spirit, when that didn't even
come up in conversation, you know, but it's like you
your mind automatically went there like, oh, I'm not going
to blasphe the Holy Spirit. I'm not gonna even come
close to it. I remember feeling as a believer, you
know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, even even you say
to now, I would be in your shoes saying nah, no, no, no,
not even say that, not even don't even think it, like,
don't even think it and with it, right, you don't
even want to get close to it, right, yeah, yeah,
And so that's why we had to reassure you. No, no, no,
we're not talking about that. We're not asking you to
do that, and we're not even asking you know, asking
anything about that. But even just the prospect of perhaps
even unintentionally violating that is very real to you. And
I get that. I'm not trying to minimize that at all.
But what I'm trying to what I'm just wondering about,
is how much of that fear, in addition to it
sounds like the fear of disappointment, the fear of loss
of hope, how much of that is.
Speaker 3: Influencing the type of evidence that you'll accept.
Speaker 6: I say, honestly, okay, honestly on a scale of one,
that's say, I say, as far as me accepted outside
quote unquote secular evidence outside of the Bible. All right,
I say that's a good I say, good, probably six
or seven.
Speaker 5: Like I need to.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I kind of, I kind of need to be
I don't know, maybe explored a little bit.
Speaker 4: So if a if an, if a Muslim gave the
exact same reasons that you just gave us during this
entire call, during this entire conversation, and then ended with
and that's why Allah is the true God, That's why
Quran is real, that's why Islam is the true faith.
Speaker 3: Would that be acceptable to you?
Speaker 6: It wouldn't.
Speaker 1: So why not?
Speaker 6: Because with with me believing only that the that the
Bible is true, I will hear with her, I will
respectfully here with her where they're coming from and all
that other good stuff. But I will tell well, I
don't think I don't take our laws real.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's not I don't.
Speaker 4: It's not so much an issue of disrespect, right, It's
just it's just real quick.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Do y'all have the same energy with all the other
religions or it's just really on Okay, okay, thank you,
Oh yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yes, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: I mean, you could you could be a you could
be a wicked coming up here, and I'd be asking
you the same stuff.
Speaker 1: I've never seen. Sure that I've never seen a lot.
I've never seen zeus. I've never seen a spirit or.
Speaker 4: Soul, like, never seen fairies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like the thing is is we're telling you that
we don't believe what we have not experienced, right, or
that what we cannot prove with there's no evidence behind.
Speaker 4: Let it go.
Speaker 6: I appreciate this call, y'all. I know, y'all, I do.
If y'all have something like this in the future, only
y'all two, I will, I will give y'all. I will
want to call y'all back to y'all. Y'all seem like
y'all know what y'all talking about, and I like, I
like these little brain challenges for myself, you know what
I mean. I respect it.
Speaker 2: So I challenge I'm hoping if you call back. If
you call back, I want to know the answer to
my question.
Speaker 1: Why why are Why would you serve a god uh
who has a lesser standard of integrity than you do?
Especially especially when your belief is that the devil is
the great deceiver?
Speaker 2: Right, the devil in your belief system.
Speaker 1: The devil should have a lower standard up integrity than you,
not your God. So why would you serve a god
who has a lower standing up integrity than you? I mean,
you don't have to answer that today.
Speaker 4: Let's take it with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll.
Speaker 6: Take that one.
Speaker 5: With me.
Speaker 6: Okay, I thank her for giving me something to think about.
I feel that, thank you very much.
Speaker 4: That's what she does.
Speaker 1: Read Judici is twenty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm on it right now.
Speaker 6: I'm really I stay with my Bible with me. So yeah,
I'm saying it right now. So that's I'm seeing the example.
And that is a great point when it comes to
somebody saying, hey, why are my alpholes when he's the
one that told me, you know, she was cool and
not his sister. So I'm giving you that, Like, that's
a good example of pointing out uh integrity, engaging the
integrity at that point. So I'm giving you that.
Speaker 5: That was it.
Speaker 4: That was a good one, all right.
Speaker 3: I look forward to the answer. Yeah you having good
thanks for calling.
Speaker 1: Have a good day.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm going to appreciate.
Speaker 2: It, all right.
Speaker 4: But yeah, good question.
Speaker 1: I think like the it's interesting right to see believers
within the black community who are not used to talking
to or seeing black atheists, yes, and engaging in these
types of questions and the fear right of blaspheming against
the Holy Spirit like that is the thing that help
us away from it from questioning it for so long.
It's like can't you go step on a like a
piece of dynamite or a mind and blow up or something.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Tip toeing, yeah, just tiptoeing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, walking on eggshells.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it was. Just Yeah, you could hear
it in his voice like he you know, he didn't
even want to even think about it. But I just
remember that da. I just it just took me back
to those days, and you know, just almost like I
was cringing, like I was like waiting for the you know,
for the for the lightning strike to hit, you know,
and then it didn't hit. I'm like, Okay, I guess
I'm all right. All right, we just keep going, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta you gotta get that first question out
the way. Yeah, all right, we have another color, Amasaia.
Amasia is from Maryland and wants to talk about believing
versus knowing.
Speaker 2: Don't forget. If you are on TikTok, you can.
Speaker 1: Submit your request on TikTok and join the stage and
we'll get to you next. A'masiah, how are you.
Speaker 4: Good?
Speaker 5: I think the name is pronoun is pronounced amaja.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask if I was pronouncing it correct.
Speaker 5: Okay, multiple Most people say the way that choose say,
but it's Ama y'a and good evening to the both
of you. And let me let me just say, uh,
the name of your show is the atheist experience, right,
I have the spiritual experience.
Speaker 1: I don't have a show.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying I'm coming from the spiritual experience perspective.
And it's very, very difficult to explain the spiritual experience
because it's invisible, okay, and and so, but I had
fascinating conversations. Actually, I'm I'm having conversations with atheists and
agnostic agnostic people because the ones that I've talked to
they just need proof that this being, this creator exists
or not. And you know so, so one of the
things I want to talk about is the notion of
believing versus knowing.
Speaker 1: Do you believe in a God or is it just.
Speaker 2: Spirits and souls?
Speaker 5: No believer? I'm okay, let me let me, let me
let me try to answer the question. I'm not a believer.
I'm a nober. And there's the difference between someone who
believes that God exists and one who knows based on
the spiritual experiences that they have had.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you and with the God of the Bible,
which I know I am.
Speaker 5: I am a nowhere of the heavily Father, the parent
of humanity.
Speaker 1: What's what's what's his name?
Speaker 5: From Adam? From from from Adam. I just call him
my father. He is my father. He's a heavily parent.
Is it?
Speaker 2: Is it the one in the Bible, the Koran? Which
one is it?
Speaker 5: It's mayam, ma'am again, it's it's my experience with this being.
Speaker 1: What's the.
Speaker 5: Okay I'm talking about Okay, all right, I'm talking about
the creator, the creator who created the world. I'm talking
about the father of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Moses, Jesus. That's
who I'm talking about. So that's a life spiritual Let
me just say this, man, that is a lie, ma'am.
Let me let me say this because this is a
live spiritual This is a live spiritiritual being that that
I'm talking about. I'm not talking about concept. Okay, So
what's your question.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find out. Is it the one that's
that the Muslims know? Is it the one that the
Jewish people know? Judaism is the one of the Christians know?
Which one are you, which one do.
Speaker 5: You know is neither neither of them?
Speaker 1: Okay, so they're not.
Speaker 2: Isn't in the book?
Speaker 1: Isn't in neither of these bibles?
Speaker 5: Neither the no, no, no, ma'am. The heavenly Father that
I know that most Christian people call him God, it's
a spirit It's a heavenly spiritual parent to me because
I've had spiritual experiences with this being. But he is
the father of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus. So this
is the same heavenly Father that the Bible does talk about.
Speaker 1: I just asked you.
Speaker 5: You said that, Okay, well, but what I'm telling you
is my experience with this heavenly Father is different from
other religion.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask about your serenity. I wanted to know,
hold on, listen, hold on.
Speaker 5: I understand what you're saying. What you're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm a ya.
Speaker 2: Stop.
Speaker 1: First off, you need to remember who the host is, Okay,
not you? All right, now, what I'm what I'm trying Okay,
all right, all right. What I'm trying to understand is
what God you are talking about before you get into
your spiritual experience. I didn't ask if you had the
same experience as another person. I just asked, what God
is it that you are claiming to know? And if
it is the God that is in the Bible, the Koran,
or whatever. Now that I have that answer, it is
the God that is in the Bible, that the King
James Bible, the the Hebrew Bible, the whatever translation or
version of the Bible that deals with Christianity. That is
the God that we will be discussing through your spiritual experiences.
Speaker 5: Is that?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 5: All right? Now now I understand what you're saying. I
understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Yes, now, okay, all right, go ahead. No relationship, okay,
so all right, and tell us about relationship.
Speaker 5: Well, let me let me just like I was saying,
the notion of believing versus versus knowing is two different things.
Like you're I'm sorry, I didn't get your name. What's
your name?
Speaker 6: My name?
Speaker 2: Yes, it's Thinker.
Speaker 5: Okay, your name is Thinker. So let's say let's say Thinker,
you and I need someone in common, and and someone
and the person asks, and I asked, the person is
Thinker a good cook? Does she cook very well? If
I say I believe that Thinker is a good cook,
versus yes, absolutely, she is a good person who cooks. Well,
that's two different things. So people who say that they
believe in something, or they believe in God, or they
believe in the same commandments, it's very easy for them,
you know, the following week not to not to believe
in something. But if you know something absolutely, then there's
no way that you that you will be you know,
shaken like or we shaken in the winners. Jesus talks
about someone who believes does that, and I can what
is it that you know?
Speaker 2: But what is it that you know?
Speaker 5: What? What do you know?
Speaker 1: Versus? All right, listen, I'm gonna give you a sixty
second clock. I'm gonna give you a sixty second clock
because I want you to be concise.
Speaker 2: Okay, what is it that you know versus belief? Can
we start the clock? Thank you? Go ahead?
Speaker 5: Okay. So I don't I actually know versus believing. These
are the things that I know. I know through prayer.
That prayer, the prayer when I pray for something or
pray for someone to be here who's in the hospital
and have seen it. Therefore I know it. Then then
the people that I pray for, even recently who's been
in the hospital. They've been released like the next day. Okay,
that's something that I've experienced because I know the power
of prayer. Okay, That's one thing. The spiritual experience is
very difficult to explain because it is invisible. Okay. So
if I in my own personal experience, if I need
something and it's like impossible that it could possibly happen.
So we talked about faith.
Speaker 1: Now Okay, wait, wait, okay, I'm a Jean. Your sixty
seconds is up. That's why I asked you to like
be really really concise, right, so that we can write
this list.
Speaker 4: Out of trying.
Speaker 1: But ahma, Jean, you had sixty seconds, and I warned
you ahead of time, right, So let's talk about this
knowing of prayer and your ability to heal. Like, let's
let you you got one of them out. Well, you
said that you prayed, Amajan.
Speaker 5: Are you stopping?
Speaker 1: I'm a jaid, I'm gonna mute you. I'm gonna mute
you if you don't know how to stop talking while
I'm talking.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, all right.
Speaker 1: You said that you pray, you go to the hospital,
you pray, right, and then the person is released.
Speaker 2: The next day.
Speaker 1: That means you are claiming that the words that come
out of your your mind, your heart, your mouth, whatever
you say to the God that you believe, you know,
have some effect on the health of the person that
is in the hospital. That is what you are claiming, correct,
whether they are field, whatever, your your prayer, your desire
of your heart, your God decided to do something for
that person on behalf of you. Is that correct?
Speaker 5: That's not really quite clear. Let me be clear about something.
When I pray, I pray to the Father, I pray
to my heavenly Father. And when I know that, I
know it. Okay, when I pray, I know it's going
to happen there.
Speaker 1: Okay, don't.
Speaker 5: I don't have any issues when it comes to I.
Speaker 1: Know you like bragging on yourself. You like bragging on yourself.
We get it.
Speaker 2: This is not gonna you do.
Speaker 1: This is not the show where you're gonna keep talking
about how special you are. What we are trying to
understand is what we're trying to understand is what is
it that is happening when you say these words of
the God that you know, and when I said that
your prayer is able to heal people, you say, I
didn't say heal. So let's be specific, right when you
say the words to your God, okay, and whether they
that you're speaking them with your mouth, whether it's doing
it with your heart or whatever the desire that you have,
you say to your God, your God loves Amajah so
much that he moves on whoever is in the hospital,
and and that person is released the next day. Now
you are not saying that those people are healed. You
are saying that they are well enough for the doctors
to release them the next day, that they no longer
need medical intervention because your God has moved on. Behalf
of Amajah. That is what you are saying.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 5: What I'm saying is through my prayer, the heavily Father heals.
Speaker 3: Film It's not through me, so so he does heal?
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, great, so your father heals all right? Amajah,
ama Jah, a'ma jah.
Speaker 2: Why why if you know this, why why haven't.
Speaker 1: You gone to Saint Jude's and cleared out the Saint
Jude's Hospital with all those children who are suffering from cancer,
the parents who cannot afford treatment.
Speaker 2: Why why haven't you? Why haven't you done that?
Speaker 1: What are you and your God doing?
Speaker 5: I don know do you think that these parents.
Speaker 2: Say, Judea's still in business? I said you.
Speaker 1: You are the special Okay, why haven't you?
Speaker 5: Why haven't travel ma'am you saying that I'm the special one,
I'm not.
Speaker 2: Why haven't you traveled?
Speaker 4: You are the one, am.
Speaker 2: You are the one who knows.
Speaker 1: Why haven't you traveled to Saint jude and cleared out
that hospital and healed those kids?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Put them out of business?
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, all right, let me let me answer the question.
I know, just just by common sense that those children,
that those parents who have children in Saint Ju's or
other hospitals, I know they pray for their for their children.
I know they do. I'm only talking about the people
that I know personally who was in the hospital. I prayed.
I know that they were going to be healed, and
they were healed.
Speaker 2: Right, So why don't you go pray for these kids?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: So if you have the juice, well you have.
Speaker 1: The hold on amo ama Jah, I'll let you talk.
It's my turn. Why if you if you have the
juice right, and you have the direct connection and and
ama Jah and y'all weigh your God, whatever you call them,
your parent moves when you say daddy, I need right,
why don't you go and pray for those children in
saying Jude so they can get healed.
Speaker 5: In general, I really pray for everyone on the planet.
Speaker 4: That's okay, well, when I'm talking.
Speaker 5: About personally personal, but this is a personal relationship I
have with my heavenly Father. When I pray for people, polleagues, friends,
people that I know who have been hospitalized. When I
pray and I know they will be healed, they are healed.
I can only talk about the personal, the people that
I've prayed for personally. I can't talk about every because
everybody on the planet needs prayer. Let's be clear about that.
Speaker 1: So if you have the ability, why don't you go
pray for the people the children.
Speaker 5: That need it. In general, ma'am, I pray for people
on the planet. I pray for peace. I pray for
people in general. But when I talk about specifically, when
I when I pray for someone specifically to be healed,
all I know is because I know it will be done,
It's done. Okay.
Speaker 1: Can you pray and ask your God to convert me?
Can you? Can you pray and ask your God to
make me a believer right now.
Speaker 5: I know, because that's a personal responsibility on your part.
Speaker 2: Have said whatever you asked, that He will do it
for you.
Speaker 5: You just I'm talking about hearing someone in a hospital. Man,
I'm not talking about someone converting to a religion.
Speaker 1: So they have to be in the hospital for put
your prayer to work.
Speaker 5: They don't necessarily have to be the hospital. They could
be home, they could be home.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, right that my rotator cuff is hill.
Speaker 2: My rotator cuff is hill, right now, ma'am.
Speaker 5: Ma'am, I don't I don't you You're trying to make
this like a It seems like that you are the
integrity of when I'm talking to you. You.
Speaker 1: Oh, so you have to know me. You have to
know me to pray for me.
Speaker 2: You have to you have to know me to pray
for me.
Speaker 5: As I have said, as I've said, the people that
I pray for, people that I know. Okay, And the
only point I'm making from this phone call is a
difference between believing and knowing. People who believe ever really
means nothing. People who believe in you know, when people
ask me, do I believe in God? You know what
I tell them. I tell them, no, that's because you
think you know. I would say I thought, right, so
when I tell them, but you don't, you're not.
Speaker 1: Doing anything different than somebody who believes. You've made excuses
for why you can't pray. You've made excuses for why
you can't pray, like you're not doing any Yes, you did. No,
I'm talking about I'm talking about the I've asked, why
don't you pray for the children that Saint Jude You've
made an excuse for that. I've asked. I've asked, I've asked,
I've asked why, Like God, damn, goodness gracious, because you
keep talking. You keep talking while I'm talking, like damn,
like you're making me have to yell over you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, all right. All I'm saying is I know,
I know the power of prayer. And there is a
difference between believing in something and knowing something. And most
people who say that they're believers, they are to me,
from my experience with people who say they believe in Christ,
will believe.
Speaker 4: You in God.
Speaker 5: They really don't understand what it means to have faith.
They don't understand that it's better to know something versus
then to believe in something If we.
Speaker 2: Can't test it, what do you call it the brag?
Speaker 1: Like if we can't, if we can't, ask you to
manifest it, Like when.
Speaker 2: You don't stop, be quiet, be quiet.
Speaker 1: Every time I open my mouth, you open yours. This
is ridiculous because this is this is ridiculous. I am
going to mute you, like, this is ridiculous. You're a
grown ass man.
Speaker 2: Stop. Like My question is what did you call it
here for? If we can't test it?
Speaker 1: Like, did you call it here the brag? We're like,
we're asking you to show us this this thing that.
Speaker 2: You claim to know.
Speaker 1: Right, if you know this and you and you know
that you have this uh connection with this with this god,
you don't believe it, then show it. That's all we're
asking you.
Speaker 4: All right, Hello, Hello, Yeah, go ahead, Okay.
Speaker 5: As I said in the beginning, it's very very difficult
to explain what the spiritual experience is, okay, because spiritual
spiritually spiritual things are invisible and people can't see it
in general, because people most of the world or almost
all the world is spiritually dead. That's why we have
the problems that we have. And even in Christianity. How
can there be one Bible and four hundred denominations of Christianity.
It doesn't make sense. So if you go, if you,
if you talk about different parts of Christianity entity. And
that's why atheists laugh at Christians because the things that
Christian believes don't make sense according to the Bible.
Speaker 4: All right, can I can I jump in real quick?
Speaker 3: I got I got going.
Speaker 4: I want to ask you something. So me and part
I had a I had a talk with a Hindu Muslim.
I'm sorry, excuse me, not a Hindu Muslim, a Hindu monk.
I had to talk with Hindu monk. It's about a
year ago. And he told me that he was one
convinced that the ultimate consciousness exists also Noms Brahma, because
he personally tapped into it and he knows for a
fact that it's real, and that what he told me
was that this consciousness like did a data dump into
his head and that verifies for him that he knows
it's true. And he said that he got to this
point because he worked with Guru and he meditated, and
he said that for me to explain it to you
is like trying to explain how honey tastes sweet to
someone who's never ever tasted it. So he's saying a
lot of what you're saying, and so I think what
we're trying to get you to go is does that
mean that because he personally knows like you do, that
Hinduism is true?
Speaker 5: Well, okay, that's his experience, right, He's talking about the consciousness,
and so because of those experiences, he believed that the
hindu is true.
Speaker 4: Because no, he said, he knows. He knows this singular
consciousness is real. He knows it because he personally tapped
into it. Yeah, and it gave him.
Speaker 3: It did a data dump in his head.
Speaker 5: Okay, so what's the question?
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, the question is is Hinduism true?
Speaker 5: I don't know if Hinduism is true?
Speaker 4: Okay, well it's but it's the same exact reason you
just gave us. So that makes it true because he knows.
Speaker 5: So so you're asking me what you're asking me, what
do I know is true? No?
Speaker 4: No, no, you you started this conversation with saying, there's
a belief difference between belief and knowledge.
Speaker 3: I know, I don't believe.
Speaker 4: I know because of a spiritual experience that I had
that I can't explain. Okay, And okay, so he has this,
He had the same type of experience, he did the
same things, he tapped into singular consciousness, and he knows
for a fact, according to him, that spiritual consciousness is real,
Hinduism is true, and all that good stuff. So by
that logic, the same logic you laid out for us,
that means we should all be Hindu.
Speaker 5: Right, Look, based on what based on what you're saying,
there really is no coalation. There is no coalation because
even with his experience, and he knows about his experience,
I'm gonna question that. What with people have different spiritual
experiences with There's all these different names for this creator
who created this universe and who created humanity. There's all
these names, but they're talking about the same person.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, I would believe.
Speaker 1: The Hindu account before I believe yours. Because the guy,
the one with the spiritual experience that's claiming to know
that consciousness is true, is not claiming that consciousness is
doing anything.
Speaker 2: They're not claiming to have supernatural powers.
Speaker 5: Like you.
Speaker 1: Okay, And then you don't have evidence to back up
what you claim.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we did ask you to demonstrate well she did.
She asked you to demonstrate. But I would have had this.
I would have had the same request.
Speaker 5: Okay, So I did. I didn't say that I have
supernatural powers.
Speaker 1: You claim to have access to a supernatural entity who
does supernatural things. When you pray, that is supernatural powers.
That is something outside of natural.
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, okay, let me let me I have
a question for both of you. Can I answer the question?
Speaker 4: Go ahead?
Speaker 5: Can I answer? Okay, full, for both of you. Do
both of you have a mind? Am I? Nd? Do
both of you have a mind? Okay? You saying no?
Speaker 4: Well don't you, sir?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: I said no?
Speaker 1: Who said nobody said no?
Speaker 5: Okay? I just I just answered yes, understood, Yeah, okay
you okay, all right, sir?
Speaker 4: So you have a mind, right of course?
Speaker 5: Where is it?
Speaker 4: Show me? Show me. It's a byproduct of my brain.
It's a byproduct of my brain. It's the inner workings
of my black hands.
Speaker 1: The mind is the thing that there is evidence. The
mind is the things that the brain does.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the mechanisms.
Speaker 4: Take but the mind the mind is invisible.
Speaker 5: Is invisible?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: We can but we can measure it, We can test it.
It's okay, we can we can verify that it's.
Speaker 5: I can't see it.
Speaker 1: We're not talking about what you can't see here. You
are claiming that a god did something. And we're asking
you to show us the same way that we can
show you, like right now, our mind. We are using
our brain right to communicate our We are using our
brain to will you stop because you did not cut trust,
but verify exactly exactly, so stop. We are using our
brain to communicate our thoughts to you, which is a representation,
a demonstration of our mind. What we are asking you
to do is to do the same thing for us
with this prayer claim.
Speaker 9: That you have.
Speaker 5: Oh, what's the question?
Speaker 3: Could you please demonstrate it for us?
Speaker 5: Demonstrate what what I said about when I pray and
when I pray for people and then they get well.
Speaker 1: And so what you're asking, No, we're asking you to
jump up and down and do ten jumping jackson, turn
up a cartwheel, and then show us what your mind is.
Like what do you think we are talking about right now?
Speaker 4: Like throa is that you can pray and heal people,
and people will be healed after you pray, and but
then you put some conditions on it.
Speaker 1: I got to know the person.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's fine. So what we're asking for our receipts.
That's what we're asking for. The question is give us
receipts of this claim that you have that you have
prayed for people that you know to be healed in
the hospital and they walked out of the hospital the
next day.
Speaker 3: We're asking for receipts.
Speaker 5: Okay. So when you say receipts, you mean you want
me to give you the name of the people that
I prayed for that were hospitalized and they know. Well, no,
what do you mean by repeats?
Speaker 2: What do you want to We want to demonstrate it.
Speaker 3: We want to demonstrate it, we want to test it.
Speaker 5: Well, the only way that it's tested is based on
the results of the prayer. That's the receipts.
Speaker 4: Can do it?
Speaker 1: God, that's what we're asking for it. And I literally
just told you pray rotator cuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she told you about the rotator cuff.
Speaker 5: I don't have to prove anything to you. All I'm
doing is telling you, well, my experience is when I pray.
Speaker 4: And that I know, Hey where just believe you.
Speaker 5: Knows?
Speaker 1: Because he said so, yeah, what are we supposed to
do with that?
Speaker 5: What? What?
Speaker 1: What should we do next?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 4: So let's okay, let's rewind it back. I don't know,
what do you think to think about five minutes? Let's
just remind it five minutes. And let's just say, hell.
Speaker 1: The beginning, because he started with at the beginning.
Speaker 4: Okay, the beginning. We'll just we'll just rewind it back
to the beginning. And you have just told us that
you pray and people you have prayed for people you know,
and the next day they walked out of the hospital.
Now what just help us out here? Okay, help us out?
What should our next move be? What should Thinker and
I do next?
Speaker 5: I'm the I'm asking you want to do anything next?
Speaker 4: I'm just didn't ask you that. I'm asking you, sir, Sir, sir,
I'm asking you what should we do next? What are
we supposed to do any w what what you just
told us? Brother? What you just told us?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 1: What should we do next?
Speaker 5: You don't? Okay? And then my answer is you don't
have to do anything.
Speaker 1: Why are you here? Understood?
Speaker 5: But why are you wanted? I called the showing good
say to talk about believing and knowing something and just
give an example of what my faith is when I
pray and what happens. That's all. That's the only reason
why I'm calling That's it.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 5: I'm not asking you, when the co hosts, to do anything. Okay,
I'm not asking you to do it. But why what
do you want to do next? What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 5: You do?
Speaker 4: Do you do?
Speaker 1: You know why we're here?
Speaker 5: You're having that? You have what show of atheism? Right?
Speaker 3: What's what?
Speaker 4: What's what's the purpose of the shows? It is called
atheists experience? But what what what do you think it
is that thinker and I are doing here?
Speaker 5: Well, you're given you talk about and you've given reason
two talk about read the reason why that both of
you are atheists?
Speaker 4: Right, Well, we talked to people who believe, well, we
talk to people who believe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and but we're not specifically giving reasons.
Speaker 4: Well okay, what we're okay, So what I'm trying to
understand is you called you called us, right, you came here,
and now have you watched the show before?
Speaker 5: I've seen this so many times and that's okay, okay.
Speaker 4: You've seen it many times. Fantastic, Okay, So it's not
just the host here. We don't just talk all day
about why we don't believe, right, I mean, we give reasons,
you know, and it's a pretty but that's a very
very small part of the show, right. The biggest part
of the show is to talk to folks like yourself who,
in your case, know things, right. We want to know
why you know things, Okay. But what it sounds like
is because we're asking why, thinker was asking you why
and having you demonstrate it. But what it sounds like
is what you expected us to do is just say, okay,
well thanks for that, thanks for taking our call, and
then we move on. I mean, this is supposed to
be a conversation, right, So we're asking you to demonstrate
it because in we're asking for evidence. I mean, from
my perspective, I want to be convinced, so okay, yeah,
so that's why we're asking you to demonstrate it. Okay,
you got to be Okay.
Speaker 5: The only demonstration I have is based on the results
of my prayer. Okay, I can't do anything else other
than that, so okay, but.
Speaker 4: We're we're asking you to produce those results. Again, those
are the receipts we're asking for.
Speaker 5: What do you mean produce those again?
Speaker 4: Were you talking about, Well, you said the results of
your prayer, and we're asking you to produce the results
of the prayer again so we can observe this, so
we can understand what's going on that does your friends have.
Speaker 1: To pay a medical bill? Do your friends have to
pay a medical.
Speaker 4: Listen?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, okay, okay, hold on, hold on?
Speaker 5: Can I can? I?
Speaker 4: Can I say something real quick, Thinker? I'm sorry, I
got I gotta say something. This is really starting to
bother you. Hold on, Amaja, I gotta say something because
absolutely I am seeing this in real time. Every time
Thinker says something, you cut right in. Every time I
say something, you stop and you listen. And I just
need you to afford Thinker the same level of courtesy
and respect that you're affording me, because it's starting to
bother me that you know, I'm just feeling like this
woman is getting disrespected here and I really need you
to do that. So can you do that for us?
Because otherwise, you know, this is gonna get spicy real
quick because I can't. I can't tolerate that anymore. I
gotta I gotta say something, So can you do that
for me? Before we go for I can do that
because that I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Okay, I appreciate that, I really do.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna say I never need a man to
do that, because I will cut some motherfucker out in
a minute for I understand and and and but I
do appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I just have to say something, though, because it was
bothering me.
Speaker 4: No seriously, And I'm fully aware that you can do that, thinker,
but I'd still have to say something yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: But I think men need to respect women because women,
uh say, hey, you are not going to disrespect me,
but I do. I do appreciate that. Thank you so
much for that. But what I wanted to know is
do your friends have medical bills, the ones that you
prayed to, the ones that you prayed for, the ones
that you prayed for, the ones that you are God
healed for you do they have to pay a doctor?
Speaker 5: And they didn't? They the ones the ones that were
hospital eyes or at homesick and I prayed for and
they within you know, a day or so, they become well.
Sometimes it takes longer than a week. But the bottom
line is that they got well. You're asking me if
they had medical bills.
Speaker 2: Yes, do they have to a doctor for yes? Do
they have to pay a doctor for their.
Speaker 5: I I guess if they're in the hospital, if they've
been in the hospital, I guess they had a medical bill.
I was just praying for them to for them to
expeditiously get well and get it. And based on my
experience of faith and when I pray, I absolutely know
it's going to happen. I can't I can't understand that
because it's very I mean, I can't explain it because
it's spiritual. You cannot explain.
Speaker 1: Spiritualained anything spiritual at all.
Speaker 5: So my my prayer, so my praying for someone is
that the Father would heal them. That's not spiritual.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that he does it for my power?
Why do you think he does it for you or
not them?
Speaker 5: This is very s so well, okay, even the people
that I pray for what they pray also they pray
for to get well people.
Speaker 4: Okay, So then people they pray in the case in
Majia not being the case, then why didn't it work
for them?
Speaker 3: And it's working for you?
Speaker 5: I'm saying in general, when people when there's because I
wasn't the only one praying for them.
Speaker 4: So sorry, so sorry, I gotta I got a question
up on the board. I got a question on board,
So I just got to stay linear here for a second.
I just need to know why there's nothing when they
don't When they pray, it doesn't work. But when you pray,
it does work. That's all I need to hear the answer.
Speaker 5: I did not. I did not say when they pray
it doesn't work. I'm sure they pray, I know, because
these are people of prayer. But I know what I pray.
When I pray, I know that they're going to be
healed because I already believe that it or know that
it's already going to happen. Not to say if they
pray for themselves that they don't have that face. They
pray it hopes to get well. I just know by
my experience of praise for people, they get well.
Speaker 4: Okay, so my experiod, you prayed, okay, excellent. If you
prayed for Thinker's rotator cuff to be healed right now,
would it be healed right now?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 9: I'm not.
Speaker 5: I'm not. Look, you're not going to turn this into
a circus This is not a circus.
Speaker 3: You all, because you know.
Speaker 1: You are you are, Oh my god, anytime we ask
you all to demonstrate these so called connections or powers
or not that you know you all have excuses.
Speaker 3: For why you three time one time work.
Speaker 2: And then the fact that your.
Speaker 1: Your friends have to pay doctors for their healing. Like
if I was your friend, like I'd be pissed. You're
you're claiming the supernatural healing and then they still got
these medical bills.
Speaker 5: It's okay that you don't believe in what I'm saying.
It really is okay.
Speaker 2: To get rid of the medical bills too.
Speaker 5: That's that's he that's not no.
Speaker 2: He healed and if he hold on hello, hello stop.
Speaker 1: If he healed them, then what needs to come along
with that is that they don't pay medical bills because
your God did the work. Why why don't you ask
him to get rid of the medical bills?
Speaker 5: To ma'am, when you're going to the emergency room, that's
going to be a bill, right, nothing that there's nothing.
How can God get rid of emergency bill? When going
to the hospital, there's going to be a bill.
Speaker 10: Right, So why couldn't Why couldn't God ma'am, let me
infusion in the minds of the billing department at the hospital,
and it just is they're just confused when they try
to build a patient.
Speaker 4: You know what. I mean that that God could just
throw confusion out there, you know, or he could just
or he could just go in and zero it it
out in the computer. I mean it's I mean, it's.
Speaker 5: Has surgery. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, money covered up,
that's what that's what you believe.
Speaker 4: That's what you believe.
Speaker 5: And that's fine.
Speaker 2: But limited.
Speaker 1: Sounds quite limited to appendicitis.
Speaker 4: Just we're just trying to think of ways to help
you show us. That's all we're doing. We're trying to
make because honestly, it is not making any sense. It's
making no sense.
Speaker 5: Well okay, well it longer makes sense to me. That's
all it's important. I didn't say anything about God praying
to God that they don't have a medical bill. Okay.
I can pray that. I can pray for surgery or
surgery to be successful with someone that I know, which
I've done many times, and most almost all the time,
the surgery has been successful almost every time.
Speaker 4: Percy said it was every time I caught that I
caught that first he said it was every time. Man,
I'm feeling I'm hearing cap now. First he said it
was every time. It's almost every time, every ten, every captain.
Speaker 5: And let me just say every time to be healed.
Speaker 2: No, no, why are they even going in surgery?
Speaker 1: If you have the first as your daddy to heal them,
they shouldn't even be going in surgery.
Speaker 6: That makes no sense.
Speaker 5: That makes so if someone needs medical someone who needs
medical attention should not go.
Speaker 1: You are claim you are claiming that you can pray
for them to be healed. If you can pray, what
are you asking for when you pray, what do.
Speaker 4: You ask for?
Speaker 5: Well, if you're praying for someone to be healed, what
would you say?
Speaker 1: I mean no, If you're asking for them to be healed,
then they should not need surgery.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but if someone goes to the hospital and needs
medical attention, they should get it right from the doctors.
Speaker 1: You are claiming that you got a supernatural daddy.
Speaker 5: So so if so I didn't say that, yes.
Speaker 4: You did that somebody who who's better than the doctor.
That's what you've been telling you.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, okay, okay, but the mean that the thing
is if someone needs surgery, they need to have surgery.
Speaker 1: Okay, but.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so after so even so, if I'm praying for
them to have a successful surgery and then heal, what's
wrong with that? Wait?
Speaker 1: What is he healing?
Speaker 2: Gang Green? What what is your god healer?
Speaker 1: What's he healing?
Speaker 5: If someone well, well, let me just get well. One example,
heart surgery, heart surgery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people heal from that all the time. Man, Wait
a minute, he healed heart surgery. The person the person
had surgery.
Speaker 5: Okay, right, the person has surgery. I'm praised what they do.
Speaker 2: What is your God heal?
Speaker 5: I pray that they have a successful surgery and the
answer the surgery, that they can heal and they will
heal and get better. That's all I pray for.
Speaker 2: That's time heals all God?
Speaker 6: Well, well, but but I believe that God, that God heals.
Speaker 2: The only thing you know is time.
Speaker 1: That's it time.
Speaker 5: The only thing I know is why.
Speaker 1: It's time?
Speaker 4: People, it does right time.
Speaker 1: That's that's not your way. That's not your way. That's time.
Speaker 5: What do you agree with that? But if God? But
if I pray that the person heals and they heal,
and I know they're going to be healed. Then they're
going to I'm just going by my experience. I'm just
telling you all my experience. That's all I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Okay, do you okay? I just googled this real quick.
Speaker 4: Do you know the rate the percentage of people who
do not heal from heart surgery? What is that percentage?
I don't you don't know? Okay, So according to Google,
it's one per one to two percent. So you're you're
praying for something that has a ninety eight percent chance
of success. Brother, Okay, you know what that's like.
Speaker 5: You know what that's like. This is what this is like.
Speaker 4: What this is like is for me standing at the
bus stop saying, I pray that this bus will come
at seven fifty shows up. That's what you're praying for.
Speaker 3: And then and then they're like, see, there's God right
here in my life.
Speaker 2: I know them, I know him.
Speaker 1: This is wild, brother, this is wild. This is no
different than people saying like the hold on, This is
no different than the last collar and the last collar
like little sweetheart, it's a sweetheart, but the last call
is saying that he knows that this God exists because
he breathes like your lungs work. Yeah, right, like time happens,
your wounds close up, they heal as time goes on.
Speaker 2: And then I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1: That your friend who had heart surgery had follow up appointments,
had post up care, right, and y'all wigh, wasn't that
the angels won't his nurses or her nurses?
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, look, I understand y'all position. I was just
calling in good faith to talk about my my experience
in prayer and my experience when it comes to knowing
that you know that this spiritual being, my heavenly Father exists.
That's the purpose of my call. And I think that
you once said, well for you to get a set
with me or whatever, I just call him good faith
to talk about you have. Your show was called the
eighth experience, and I have what I call the spiritual experience.
It's very, very difficult to explain spiritual experiences because you
can't see them, but you can see didn't see that,
Yeah you didn't.
Speaker 2: You didn't see that either. You didn't see that either.
Speaker 4: I didn't see what you didn't you God here?
Speaker 1: You didn't see your God heal anybody? You saw time heal?
Speaker 6: All woun.
Speaker 5: All right, al and you're entitled to that and I
respect that. All I know is that's just one example
I know of that I've had in prayer, more than
just going to the hospital, where where through faith, in
my faith in prayer, that the good results I prayed
for took place. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying
to a well it's you or the callers who are listening.
Speaker 9: I'm just talking about my experience, my spiritual experiences with
my heavenly Father and my experiences when it comes through
prayer and knowing that when what I prayed for because
of faith, that it will be done. And I'm only
going by my experienced.
Speaker 2: You don't believe that.
Speaker 5: Oh, now you're going to tell me what I don't believe.
Speaker 1: You don't or as you would have prayed, as you
would have prayed for the kids in Saint June.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, if it's that powerful, or you could
have prayed for thinkers rotator cut.
Speaker 1: Oh you don't like me, that's why you keep telling
me off.
Speaker 2: But the little kids.
Speaker 5: Don't tell me what I don't believe, ma'am you would
have prayed for the kids, and say you are minimizing
because I don't have receipts and I only even know
what that means. You're going to tell me that that's
not what I believe. It's not what I believe. Is
what I know is what I've experienced.
Speaker 4: Then you don't know.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that I said, you don't believe that, and
he's defending belief.
Speaker 2: But he called in to say he don't believe. He
knows what. But you went to.
Speaker 5: Because because you used the word belief. I know, I
don't believe. I don't believe that a God exists. I know.
Speaker 2: I didn't you think about whether or not you believe
that God exists.
Speaker 1: Didn't say that. I said, you don't believe that you
can pray and people are healed? Like you don't you
don't believe what your God says in this Bible either. Hey, hello, Hello,
you also don't believe in uh and shut it up.
Sometimes you don't believe what the God in this Bible
says because Jesus says that you should be able to
touch in and heal people.
Speaker 2: Right, You're you weren't.
Speaker 1: Willing to do that for the children, And say, dude,
you are not willing empty out Hello, hello, Hello, are
not willing to put Saint Jude out of business and
and reign relief to the hearts of the parents who's
uh having to try to figure out how to pay
those hefty medical bills or try to figure out how
to raise money so that they can take care of
so that their kids can get the medicine and the
treatment they need. If you are claiming that you have
the ability to pray and people are healed, if you
actually believe that you would be praying for the children
in Saint Jude Hospital, you don't actually believe that or.
Speaker 5: Know it, and you're entitled to that, and you're you
are entitled to that. All I know is what I
know and what I've experienced, and I'm not called. I
did not call it to convince you or the co
hosts or the people at home. I just called in
good faith because I've had fantastic conversations with people who
are atheists, agnostic, some of them on my colleagues, and
I have respect for them. I just called to talk
about my experience when it comes to prayer and knowing
versus believing.
Speaker 4: What you got to understand, though, Masra, you got to
understand something. We we tried putting this to the test.
We did this of several ways. One is I brought
up my story about the Hindu monk. The second was
Thinker's rotator cuff. The third was Saint Jude's Hospital, praying
for the kids of Saint Juws Hospital. I mean, every
single way we brought up to help you verify this
for us, it got stonewall. They got stifled. Okay, there
was either an excuse. There was either an accusation of
calling this a circus. There was some reason that this
can't happen. And that's why. And I concur with Thinker
that I don't that you don't believe that this is true.
You don't believe that you can pray to heal somebody.
You don't really believe this, because if you did, and
this has nothing to do with your knowledge about God.
This is this is the belief that you can pray
and heal somebody. That's what more this has more become about,
because if you did, then this would be no problem
for you. And this is the thing that Thinker and
I run into all the time with believers with well, okay,
with people who think God is real.
Speaker 3: They we run into this all the time.
Speaker 4: A moment we ask for fine, the moment we ask
for receipts like this, we get excuses. We the moment
we do every time, Thinker, it's every time, right right,
every time nobody is coming up saying, Okay, you know
what I got you. I'm gonna take your challenge. I'll
see you in a week. And what you're gonna see, Thinker,
or what you're gonna see, trust is you're gonna see
a big old news report about every person to say
Jew's Hospital and my town getting healed, and they're gonna
have to shut down that hospital because I'm gonna go
there and I'm gonna pray for everybody, and they're all
gonna get healed. I'll show you that doesn't happen. Never
happens never.
Speaker 1: I have a question for you. You say you talk
to your atheist and agnostic friends a lot about your spirituality.
What what questions do your atheist friends ask you when
you share these experiences with them? What evidence do they
typically ask?
Speaker 5: At most of the time they don't even ask questions.
They just respect it.
Speaker 1: They just respected And I'm not there to hold on,
hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 2: Wait.
Speaker 1: You're saying that you you tell them that you have
the ability to heal, and they just be like, Oh,
that's true, that's real.
Speaker 2: I believe it an atheists, ma'am.
Speaker 1: So I just want to make sure I understand what
you're saying. Okay, So when you when you share this,
when you share these types of experience with your atheist friend,
do they ask you questions?
Speaker 2: Is my question?
Speaker 5: Most of the time, they don't. They just they just
respect it. And let me be clear again, I am
not the person who steals is the father?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right?
Speaker 1: Whatever what do you mean by they respected? What do
you mean they respected?
Speaker 5: I respect them as atheists, they respect me. That's not
what I'm asking.
Speaker 2: That's not what I'm asking.
Speaker 1: When you share, when you share these types of experiences
with your atheist friend, do they do they ask clarifying questions?
Speaker 5: Do they ask clarifying questions.
Speaker 1: About the experience that you share?
Speaker 5: All they well, some that I talked to, thinking it's
kind of interesting that people heal after I after I
pray for them.
Speaker 1: But clarifying questions do they ask?
Speaker 5: They don't even ask any clarifying questions because the results
are the results. I don't person, I.
Speaker 4: Don't believe the word you're saying either that or they're
just being a point, like they just don't like, Oh,
that's cool, that's cool.
Speaker 5: So are you? Are you saying you by asking me
those questions?
Speaker 1: No, Like, they probably know that, they probably don't want
to go into it with you. But if they're your friends,
if they're But the reason why I'm asking this is
because if they are your friends, then they should be
able to, right, they should be able to talk about
these things with you. And if they, hey, if they're
not able to talk about them with you, Right, it's
it's nine times out of ten because you do this
and they want to avoid it, or you're not talking
to atheists because if you come to a atheist a
supernatural claim, that atheist is going.
Speaker 2: That atheists skeptic.
Speaker 1: They're they're going to ask you logical questions, they're gonna.
Speaker 2: Poke colds in the claim.
Speaker 1: And you're telling me that your atheist friends respect it
and actually believe it, respect it.
Speaker 5: I didn't they believe it. I believe it.
Speaker 2: I ask you, what do you mean by respect it?
Speaker 1: You said, they'd be like, oh, because the evidence.
Speaker 5: Is there, that's what you said, right, I said, based
on the evidence of the results, of my prayer. They
just respect it.
Speaker 1: You are saying that they believe it because they see
the evidence, Like, please stop playing with us and thinking that.
Speaker 5: No, I don't I'm not saying that. Well, all I'm
saying is they really don't even question it. They just
respect it. You're looking into you know, Okay, the dialogue
with them all right, and like and like and like
the brother said, maybe they just don't want to challenge me.
I don't know, but I'm only they told me about
their experience going from being a Christian to an atheist,
and I just tell them about my experience being a
person who has strong beliefs and strong faith and spiritual
experiences and it's it's more than just healing. There are
other spiritual experiences that I've had other than prayer, and
they just they just respected. They don't like you. You
don't get into it there, deply sure, So what I'm.
Speaker 2: What I'm hearing.
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing, Okay, what I'm hearing is you can
talk all about your spirituality and your experiences and in
your knowing with your atheist friends, but they don't talk
to you about their lack of belief.
Speaker 2: They can't talk to you about a friend. Stop.
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing, okay, is that you can talk to
your atheist friends about your spirituality, your knowing, your prayer
results and they respect it, right, But they cannot talk
to you about their skepticism. They cannot ask you clarifying
questions the way that we are. They cannot say, well
that logically doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2: Can you show me evidence?
Speaker 1: Because with me asking you what questions do they ask?
That conversation isn't happening. So it sounds like it's a
very one sighted relationship that you have with your friends
when it comes to this specific topic. And quite frankly,
I'm not surprised, okay, And it may be true.
Speaker 5: What you're saying, but don't I don't. We don't bash,
we don't. There's no arguments and things about, you know,
what they believe in and that I believe. We don't
get into.
Speaker 4: None of us bashed back to me.
Speaker 5: Here. I did not say that, sir. I'm saying with
the with the colleagues and people that I know who
are atheists, we don't. We don't have like you know,
going back and forth and things like that. I respect
with them.
Speaker 4: With them, we're pushing them back. That's what we're gonna do.
That's what we do. We push and we question, We
asked clarifying questions, and that's good.
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know. I'm skeptical.
Speaker 1: I'm skeptical because, like you're you're tell we're asking you how,
like what how did the conversation go with your atheist
friend about your prayer claim? And the only thing we're
hearing is your prayer claim. There was no conversation with
you with your atheist friend because they they can't say
to you, I don't believe that ship.
Speaker 2: They can't say that to you, or they have not
said that to you.
Speaker 5: Yes they have.
Speaker 1: Well, I asked you that. Now you want to change
pay Do you want to change your answer?
Speaker 2: You want to change answer?
Speaker 5: Now I changed my answer. I'm not changing my answer.
What I'm saying is we don't. We really don't. Even
most of the time when I've said this, when I've
had conversations years ago, they don't even you know, get
into because some of them don't even want to get
into talking about Christianity or religion. And I understand that.
I understand that. So most of the time we don't
even talk about it. There's other things to talk about
than that. I'm just talking. I just called in good
faith to talk about my spiritual experiences with the Father
and because of Him through me in prayer. Because faith
in prayer, I've seen people. I've seen people healed me
not even be in a hospital. They could be at home,
sick with whomever, with whatever. I'm just saying it. I'm
just calling you all about my spiritual experience. And I
know that you I know that it's hard to believe
that because it is difficult to believe about spiritual experiences
because they're invincible and it takes s faith.
Speaker 4: All right, Well, we asked you for evidence of why
it's true. I mean we spent this whole call asking
you for evidence. I mean at many points of the
of the call, of the conversation, and we we haven't
gotten anything out of you mean evidence just it sounds
like a lot of trust me brovidence, sir, if you
ask me for evidence.
Speaker 5: The evidence is the people were healed. That's it.
Speaker 4: The ones who had heart surgery and you prayed for
them to have healing.
Speaker 5: After the heart car that is it could be.
Speaker 3: I mean, they can host surgery.
Speaker 5: Car accident, they can be right, Yeah, post.
Speaker 4: Surgery prayer, which we showed you was ninety eight percent
effective for those in heart surgery. Now we can go
down the line for the other ones. I don't think
that's gonna matter. But like I said, you're praying for
the bus to Yeah, but I don't need faith for
the bus to come. That's why. That's why it's easy
for you say you know, you just know that they're
gonna heal. But it sounds like you know about that,
not not that God is real.
Speaker 5: I can't get up in front of a board and
explain to people with faith is that's something that they
have to experience what faith is, which means to believe
in the impossible.
Speaker 4: Okay, but we I just I just explained to you
that healing from surgery is extremely possible, like extremely possible,
like ninety eight percent possible healing from heart surgery. So,
like I said, you're praying for you're praying for something
that is extremely possible.
Speaker 5: Okay, But heart surgeries are most heart surgeries successful.
Speaker 3: Well you didn't say that, you said healing from the surgery, Okay.
Speaker 5: But I allo said I also prayed for a successful surgery, Okay.
Speaker 3: Anccessful surgery. Yeah, right, they're they're they're very very effective.
Speaker 5: Yes, Okay, I didn't. I don't know the percentages of
Haart surgeries that aren't successful, or any kind of surgery.
Speaker 4: Okay, But but I think it kind of goes back
to what thinker was asking, why not just pray for
them to heal without the surgery?
Speaker 5: Well, initially, sometimes when people go in, like let's say
someone needed an emergency epithect epthected me right, and I
know it's the one who had that, so immediately they
had to have surgery, I prayed at the surgery can
be successful.
Speaker 1: Why don't you understand the question is being asked?
Speaker 5: What's the question? I thought? I'm going to say you
the question.
Speaker 3: I want to take the wheel.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna look up a number of people
who heal from appendectamies.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, think or take the bok.
Speaker 2: I'm one.
Speaker 5: What Like.
Speaker 1: The question that is being asked is why don't you
pray for them to be healed without needing the surgery?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: Is your God capable of healing without medical intervention?
Speaker 5: Someone needs?
Speaker 4: If a colleague of mine you.
Speaker 1: Directly directly, is your father capable of healing without medical intervention.
Speaker 2: If you ask him to.
Speaker 5: I'm sure if I asked, yes, And.
Speaker 1: So you've never asked, You've never you've never asked him
to heal someone with a heart problem without Like if
somebody doctor says, hey, you need a heart transplant, are
you able to ask your God, your father to heal
that heart without needing a heart.
Speaker 2: Transplant and he do it?
Speaker 5: No, I don't. I don't know anyone who needed a
heart transplant. Well, all I'm saying is if some if
a colleague of mine goes to the hospital and has
surgery and I don't even find out until after the surgery,
I just pray that they are healed. Oh my god,
I'm about after the surgery that they heal.
Speaker 1: Well, if you found out after the surgery that they
have surgery, and then you prayed for their after they
had surgery.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Oh and by the way, if I don't know,
I said, if I don't know that they already went
in and had surgery, Okay, If I don't know that,
I pray for that, all right.
Speaker 1: Just to let you know.
Speaker 4: The success rate for an apendectomy is ninety five percent
or higher, so less than five people do not heal
from appendectomy. Okay, so again you're praying for I prayer
for the bus to come on time. That's all you're
praying for, brother, Okay, Okay.
Speaker 5: But the point is, I believe in the power of prayer.
I believe in the power prayer, and I believe through
prayer that people can be healed. And so if I
know that someone is having any kind of surgery, I
pray that they have a successful surgery and then that
the healing part will be expedited.
Speaker 4: That's all I pray for.
Speaker 5: That's it. It's out of my power once I pray,
because I know, I know, I know that it's one
that take play. So how do we know?
Speaker 3: How we know it's God that's doing this and not
the skill of the surgeon that's doing I.
Speaker 5: Know, I okay, how you know?
Speaker 3: How do we know?
Speaker 5: How? How do I know? Again? How do you cannot
explain You cannot explain faith in spiritual life with people?
You just okay?
Speaker 1: What would what evidence would do?
Speaker 4: All right? What evidence would you need to falsify this
to tell you that it's actually not God doing this
but it is still surgeon.
Speaker 5: For me, well, it's the skill, But I pray for
even the most skilled surgeon, I still pray that the
operation because the surgery is example.
Speaker 4: Right, So if you tell me what evidence would would
tell would convince you, tell us what evidence would convince
you that it's not God and it's the surgeon.
Speaker 5: Well, sir, I know that with even even a skilled surgery,
I still would pray for that person.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's not my question. Let me let me ask
again what evidence hold on? What evidence would convince you
that it is not God but it's the surgeon.
Speaker 5: There is no evidence as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1: There is no evidence as far as you're concerned. Okay,
So we were.
Speaker 4: Working with as an unfa we're working with is an
unfalsifiable claim. That's what we're working with. And that's the problem. Okay,
if we can't want but but well it is that
that's what it is. Because you said there's nothing that
you can convince you. Right, you did say there was
nothing that can convince you that it is it's it's
not God, but it's the surgeon. And so if that's
the case, then this is an unfalsifiable claim that you're making.
Speaker 3: It's not based. There is no evidence here. We're not
seeing any evidence, and.
Speaker 5: That's part all I know is the most skilled surgeony,
I'm still going to pray that that surgery that's going
to this for a colleague or friend of mine, I'm
going to pray that that surgery is successful. I'm still
going to pray for that successful surgery and that that
person heals me.
Speaker 1: We're not we're not asking to stop doing that.
Speaker 5: I know you're not. I'm telling you. I'm telling you
this one I'm going to do because there's always complications
after surgery. You know that that.
Speaker 1: Has your father ever not done something you asked for?
Speaker 5: There?
Speaker 1: Has he ever done something? Has he ever said no?
Has he ever liked well not responded?
Speaker 5: Most of the things I pray for, they come to pass,
like what from the past, Like what like the best
the best one I gave you is the one that
I've given.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, So the only thing you can ask
him for is healing somebody out the surgery. That's like
how old are you?
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not going to talk about I'm not going
to talk about the other things.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't ask you to talk about, like
what what other type of things?
Speaker 5: Just another example and I'm telling you, I'm not going
to talk about other things.
Speaker 4: Other things like do you.
Speaker 1: Pray and ask for a car? Do you pray and
ask for food every day? Do you pray and ask
so what?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: Other type of things outside of the outside of healing,
outside of healing?
Speaker 5: What? And I'm telling you, I'm not going to get
into all of that because it's personal.
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you to go into experience. I'm saying,
you pray for healing, you pray for what else? Just Jenner,
I'm telling.
Speaker 5: Okay, And I'm telling you I'm not going to get
into all of those other things because it's personal.
Speaker 1: It's personal to pray for breath, to pray for life,
that's personal.
Speaker 5: I'm telling you, I'm not talking about anything else other than.
Speaker 1: What I'm talking It's more personal than somebody else's healthcare.
What's more personal? Then you get it on a show
with over five hundred people that you don't know and
telling people that you prayed for your God to heal
somebody else nobody else's health.
Speaker 5: Well, I told you that. I've talked to other people
about other people's sols, But I'm not going to get
into anything other than that.
Speaker 1: I think you are a very selfish person. I think
you're a very selfish person. Yeah, because you're talking about
you're talking about your friend's health care, right like, you're
talking about your friend's health care on a show with
over five hundred people watching. But then when I ask
what things do you ask your father for and whether
or not your your father answered all your prayers, you
won't do it because it's personal.
Speaker 2: I think you're very selfish.
Speaker 4: Entitled to that. With all due.
Speaker 5: Respect, I know I am. That's why I said it, Okay,
And that's okay. I know who I am, and I
know the truth about myself. Hmm. Sure. And this is
just one moment in time that I'm on this show
talking to you all in a really respectful way. I
do respect.
Speaker 2: You're not respectful, okay, Yeah, you're.
Speaker 5: Okay, Fine, that's fine. You're a title to that. These
people that I know, I respect them, well, you.
Speaker 2: Didn't respectpect them us. You did not respect us.
Speaker 5: You talked over us. You know, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't have anything to.
Speaker 1: Do with the people that you know. How you have
behaved on this call.
Speaker 6: How you have.
Speaker 1: Behaved on this call is why you got traded. The
way you got treated by me, Yes, like those of
those of them that have this belief in or knowing
and a god. Like I said, it's very egotistical, very
narcissistic behavior. And you claim this relationship with this supernatural
deity that's supposed to make you. I don't know the
better of society, but behavior seems to be the last
thing on you, on your list. It seems to be
the last thing on your list. You want you You
think that you are special, so special to this creator
thing that you think you know that it listens when
you when you cry and when you moan and grown
or whatever the hell it is. That's what You're very
narcissistic and.
Speaker 11: Egotistical and you're entitled to that. And I'm sorry that
you feel that, And that's okay. But most people who
know me.
Speaker 1: They like me, I say.
Speaker 5: And the thing is, with all three respect, ma'am, this
is just a this is a phone call on a
TV show.
Speaker 3: I don't know you, you don't know me, okay, So
I mean we're.
Speaker 5: What you came in.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 5: That. But when you're projected mencist, when you're projected coming
a narcissists and all of that, that's that's your perspective
and that's okay. You're really good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I mean, and I still I still
respect you.
Speaker 5: I still respect you.
Speaker 1: Didn't respect you haven't respected me since you came on
this on this phone call.
Speaker 5: Move to strike that I moved the strike. All I
know is that was that was my intention to call.
Speaker 4: Is just the share over rule spirit, I mean overrulled
because I had to. I had to. I had to
step in to say something. That's how bad it got.
Speaker 5: Hey.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, I've known thank your for a while
and I know that she can handle more than handle herself.
But it got to it got so offensive that I
had to say something. That's the point we're trying to
make me.
Speaker 5: That was my intention when I call, Never my intention
in calling, and I apologize for that. No, No, I
surely apologize because all I wanted to do was just
share my experience. I would not call to say I'm
going to get into it with her, I'm gonna argue
with her. No, that was not my intention at all.
It would never be my intention. I'm not the kind
of person. I just wanted to share my spiritual life
and my faith in my experiences. Being someone who knows
the father. I believe we heard that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, and again we asked for since here, that's
what we do here, because you said you've watched us
for a while, so you know what happens here, and
and it just seems like that was all lost on you, right.
It just seemed like what you expected was us to
react the same way that your atheist friends react. That
we would just say, okay, well I don't believe that,
but I respect it, have a good name. No, that's
not what we're here to do. We are here to okay, okay,
to ask I know you're there.
Speaker 5: That was not I didn't have any expectations before I call.
It's just for you all to listen to what I
had to say.
Speaker 1: We didn't, and we've been listening.
Speaker 5: What do you want? Would have questions? Okay, And of
course you would have questions. That's fine. It doesn't mean
I'm going to have that. I'm going to answer your questions.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, we didn't say that. What we're saying
is we have questions. And where it seemed to kind
of go off the rails was when you couldn't provide
answers to our questions. Right, you you characterize these as
like you know, he on the rotator cuff was characterized
as a circus. We're not. It's not a circus. That's
how we ask for evidence, that's how we can verify time.
Speaker 5: But that's what we do that. You minimize it, You
minimize that everything that I said. But that's okay, I know.
Speaker 4: No, No, we're putt I'm putting it. We're putting it
exactly where it needs to be. We're putting it exactly
where it needs to be a claim. And so you're
you're calling this evidence. We call this a claim. And
the way we can graduate that claim to evidence the
same level that you have is with verification, a way
to verify what you were saying is true. And so
I think that's where the confusion is. You're you're telling
this this as if it is evidence. But see, we're
not in your head. We don't know you, right, We're
not in your head. We don't see what you say,
we don't think what you think, we don't feel what
you feel. So that's why we have to go through
this exercise of with you, of saying, okay, well, how
do you know this is true? You understand? Okay, you
get it all right, and so that's all that. That's
all that this was and and see, and what I'm
trying to say to you is how none of that
has been provided.
Speaker 5: Okay, and that's fine. But when you say, how do
I know that it's true? Is based on the results,
it's all.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, we heard that, heard that, heard that many
many many times.
Speaker 2: Results that we can see.
Speaker 3: The results that very you.
Speaker 5: If that doesn't satisfy you, it's okay.
Speaker 2: You not provided results.
Speaker 9: You have not.
Speaker 1: You've not provided any results for us to see. You
called in to share an experience with us. When we said,
oh okay, pretty cool, can we see the evidence of
that you started having a TI potential? You did not
show any evidence.
Speaker 5: That's when things all I can do, all I can do,
with all respect.
Speaker 4: Respect, I don't think I think. I think there is
more that anybody with this type of claim that you
have can do. Uh, there's more that you can do.
And and you got to understand from our perspective, this
is such a low bar that we that we have
for you, such a lot o bar. All we're asking
you to do is because like just take another event,
right if you had another event saying you got in
a car, accident, right, And we said to you, we
don't believe you. Can you demonstrate for us that this
is true? And if you actually had a car accident, Amaja,
you could be able to demonstrate that for us. Right,
those are the type of receipts that we're asking for.
Speaker 3: Is that kind of stuff?
Speaker 4: Not simply saying not simply saying because I got because
the results speak for themselves. No, you know, show us
pictures of your car, show us an accident report, but
show us a police report, show us you know, so
many things, things from a body shop at least.
Speaker 1: One piece, and then pull his hand back and be
able to like knock the shit out of somebody out
to eating the devil fruit.
Speaker 5: Like.
Speaker 1: At least they can show their superpower right in the
in a super in a U a superhero show like
the Marvel Shows, the Nimes or whatever. If they have
a superpower, right, they can demonstrate that right then and there.
You all are claiming to have access to the supernatural
entity that is invisible.
Speaker 2: As you say, when you came on, it's invisible.
Speaker 1: Right. You are claiming that there is some mechanism that
allows you to engage for the the immaterial to engage
with the material on a daily basis. And all we're
saying is show us what that mechanism is. Prove it, Like,
how are you doing that? That's all we're saying.
Speaker 3: Here's here's another way to look.
Speaker 5: At hold on with all the respect, with all the
respect the because I don't satisfy those receipts. It does
in the gate what I've experienced.
Speaker 2: Why do you why do you call it?
Speaker 1: And why do you call in and share stuff like
that with people who you know are going to ask
you for evidence? People who are logically minded, people who
are skeptical.
Speaker 5: Right, I'm pretty logical too. It's difficult. It's difficult to
explain faith. The only example I can give you is
what I've given you.
Speaker 1: You aren't explaining faith. You're saying you know, you're not
explaining faith. Faith, this evidence of what you faith. This
is things that you hope for. You are saying that
you know you're not explaining faith. And and so what
what I'm asking is why do you call in uh
to speak to people who you know are going to
ask you for evidence?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: And then say well, I just can't like, I can't
help that. You just want to accept what I say
we've got evidence.
Speaker 2: Why do you do that?
Speaker 5: But the well, ma'am, the evidence is the people were healed.
That's the evidence. That's the only evidence I have.
Speaker 4: And we can't but we already said that, we already
been over this. We distinguish that from the people. But see,
here's the thing we can't. You can't distinguish it from
the skill of the surgeons.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: This is this is kind of what where we're at now.
If I told you that this morning I levitated and
spit fire, would you believe me?
Speaker 5: If you believe it? It doesn't if you I asked you, okay,
if it actually happened, it doesn't not.
Speaker 4: That's not what I asked you. I didn't ask if
it if it matters if you believe it. I asked you.
Speaker 3: Would you believe it?
Speaker 4: If I told you that I levitated and spit fire
this morning, would you believe it?
Speaker 3: It's a yes or no.
Speaker 5: I really know, I don't know. I don't know if
I will be.
Speaker 4: You don't know whether or not you.
Speaker 5: I I would if that happened to you. It doesn't
matter what I'm believe in.
Speaker 1: It is okay, But you're still not answering my question.
So I'm gonna ask you.
Speaker 5: I'm answering all right.
Speaker 6: No, No, you're not.
Speaker 5: You're not.
Speaker 4: You're you're answer. You're just saying stuff, But you're not answering,
actually answering the question.
Speaker 5: I'm answering your question. I am question it.
Speaker 4: Okay, So your your answer is you don't know whether
or not you would believe I answer is levitated and.
Speaker 5: It happened to you. If it happened to you, it
doesn't answer my question.
Speaker 4: That's not an answer to how I'm answering it.
Speaker 5: That's how I'm answering it.
Speaker 3: That's how your answer.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 4: So so you're you're not going to answer my question.
Speaker 5: I am answering it.
Speaker 1: Let want to spit fire this morning, not the way.
Speaker 5: You want, you want the way you want me to
answer the way you want.
Speaker 4: Well, I think you're dodging the question because I know this.
I know you know this go somewhere you don't want
it to go. But see, this is the thing. This
is the problem with this, This is the problem with this.
This is intellectually dishonest. And that's and this and that's
actually very disrespectful because you said that you came up
here in good faith. This is not good faith. I
don't think you know what the word what the term
good faith means. So like, if somebody answers asks you
a question in good faith, you answer the question honestly.
And I don't think that you would say to somebody
something of that effect if they.
Speaker 1: Ask you, do you believe me?
Speaker 4: You wouldn't say, oh, it doesn't matter what I believe, No,
if you if that somebody, So you're telling me one
of your friends came up to you and just said, hey, Amaja,
I levitated a spit fire this morning.
Speaker 1: Do you believe me?
Speaker 4: You you're honestly going to sit there and say.
Speaker 5: Well, I would say, I would say that's.
Speaker 4: Ridiculous, that's ridiculous. So you don't believe it? Okay, there
we go. Now we got to finally and honestly answer.
All right, So now what would it take to convince.
Speaker 5: You non sense? Because I really wouldn't even care.
Speaker 4: Nothing. It wouldn't take anything that you wouldn't care nothing.
I would not even care.
Speaker 3: Okay, So what you're saying is you you don't care
enough to be convinced.
Speaker 5: It depends on what it is.
Speaker 4: It depends on what is something.
Speaker 5: It depends on the person and what we're talking about
and what it is.
Speaker 3: I don't know you, sir, You don't know me, of
course not.
Speaker 4: I'm asking if one of your friends, somebody you care about,
came up to you and said that you're saying you
don't care about that friend to want to know what
they're saying.
Speaker 5: Is if a friend of mine said that, I know
that he's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Okay, that might be why his atheism.
Speaker 1: It could be it could be that your atheist friends
are taking the same approach to that you would take
to a friend saying to you that they spent fire
like that's ridiculous, and you would not question that because
it is so far out of the grounds of logic
for you. That that is probably why your atheist friends
don't question you about your claims that your prayer has
healed your friends in the hospital.
Speaker 5: Okay, So can we wrapped this up because I gotta go.
I appreciate the time. I appreciate the time, and I
and the things that were said. If I was out
of line, I apologize, it's not my attention and be
I think we just hit an impass and it's not
going to go anywhere. So I respect I think that.
Speaker 2: Last line was just really really logical in full serch.
Speaker 4: What's that we hit an impasse?
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, that's okay too, but with all, with
all due respect, continued success. I'm not here to change
your religion. I have Muslims.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much.
Speaker 5: We appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Have a good one.
Speaker 1: Okay, good one, Amasa, thank you for calling inness gracious.
Speaker 4: It was wild.
Speaker 3: That was a wild ride, thinker wild ride.
Speaker 1: Oh man.
Speaker 4: You know, I got to say, the toughest ones that
I have are the ones that are I just believe.
I have a spiritual experience I have, I believe in
the creator, the you know, like they don't want to
claim a religion. They those are the toughest ones, and
they seem to always always crash out at some point,
like it's just you don't believe them. They just get mad,
they get upset, they get disrespectful.
Speaker 2: So for some yeah, he the the I know, oh,
I knew it was.
Speaker 3: Gonna go south.
Speaker 4: As soon as I heard that, I'm like, oh ship,
but yeah, I just had to say something. After like
the fourth time he cut cut you off, I was like,
I can't, I cannot not say something. I mean I
have to say something.
Speaker 3: It's just it's just bugging me too much.
Speaker 4: So this is way too disrespectful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. So I see a lot of friendlies
in the guests requests on TikTok. I think they might
be in their own accident. I'm not sure if you
are in the request on TikTok, I think we may
have one person in there that's not on the in
there on accident. If not, then we'll wrap up and
read some super chats and then we'll be all better.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 1: So, if you are in the guests request on TikTok, uh,
I know the phone lines are close down, but I
did want to make sure that we did not forget
our TikTok Q. If you're in their own purpose, can
you please comment? TikTok sometimes throws people in the guests requests.
I k you forgetting to look at the camera accident.
Anybody in their own purpose?
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 1: So trust we are going to read some super tests.
Do you have access to the supertest?
Speaker 5: I do not.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so I was gonna okay, so I'm gonna
read the super chats really quickly. I want to say
thank you to everybody who did watch the try stream
over on YouTube mobile on the YouTube Athe's Experienced channel
as well as TikTok. Thank y'all so much, and we
have AG three three seven with a nine dollars nine
nine cents to superchat. The nerds are in the building
high think or in trust high back at your AG.
Thank you tmf J. What's up up with the five
dollars super chat? Thank your You're so exciting to watch
us much love, Thank you so much. Ya appreciate you.
Another five dollars super chat from TMFJ. Supersticker of a
oh of a pair character holding his billy laughing out loud.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Chip pay a four dollars ninety nine cent super chat call.
It desperately needs to read some books on basic probability theory.
Coincidences happened all the time, every day all over the world,
like for real, for real, And then the last one,
Trey du started to who's been a member for one year?
Speaker 2: With the five dollars super chat.
Speaker 1: I understand the believer's point of view, but I still
wish each believer could at least think as critically of
their point of view as they do other religions. Interesting Okay,
I don't know which believer you were talking about, maybe
the the younger person, because I do understand their their
point of view. You get it is scary questioning your
your beliefs, especially scared to blasting the Holy Spirit. And
I do hope that that fear is you know, he's
able to get a hold of that fear and anxiety
one day.
Speaker 2: Uh so what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 3: Trust, Oh, I totally agree.
Speaker 4: And I like we were saying, like we were talking
about earlier, I definitely understand having that fear.
Speaker 3: I definitely understand like just wondering what if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4: And I got to say that at the end of
the day, if you're really wanting And that's why I
asked him the questions I was asking about, you know,
is it the is it the wanting? Is it the
fear of knowing the truth the uncomfortable truth? Or you know,
what's the cost here? And and I think if we,
you know, people can really honestly look at that and
and say, yeah, you know, what if what if this
is wrong? You know, what if I'm believing in something
that's not true? You know, I think that that's what
leads to like inroads to like you know, uh, actualizations
and realization. At least it's different for me. I don't
know you know how how it worked for you, but
that's what it did for me. You know, it's just
getting over just getting past.
Speaker 5: That, you know.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think that I Mine was like the second
cause fallacy. I didn't necessarily have the fear of questions
because I did it in secret. I didn't tell any anybody.
And then when my mom and then found out I was,
I told her she was. I was like, y'all not
invited into this part of my life and who I am.
This is personal for me and this has nothing to
do with you being my mom and you be and
my brother, like, this is me and if you having
a problem with that, that's something you're going to have
to work out. And so I did have anxiety of
like the what if I'm wrong? But I let knowledge
and facts and logic.
Speaker 2: Fixed that for me.
Speaker 1: But I didn't necessarily have the uh that whole uh
indoctrination of like the the tradition of oh you're gonna
blast me against the hold ghost of fear and and
all that. I didn't have the sucking cost fallacy. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you know one thing that did help
me get over that fear is just thinking, like just
like thinking like I'm in the shower right now, and
that means God's watching me, and that just that just
made me feel so weird, you know, like those private
moments I'm in the bathroom, God's watching right now, God's
Oh man, that's weird. That's so weird.
Speaker 1: No, I don't just don't, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I never thought about that, all right, Trust, how
can people find out more about you? And if you
can share your contact information?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm on you know, every day Monday through Friday.
Speaker 4: I'm streaming live usually around four pm Eastern time, and
so on TikTok and all the social media channels. You
just type in trust but verify twenty twenty four and
there you'll find me really awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for being you were a
wonderful co host. Again, thank you. I also appreciate you
for speaking up and stopping misogyny write in his tracks. Yeah,
I always appreciate that. But I will always make sure
that any misogynistic man knows that I will not bow
down to an indist respect.
Speaker 2: But thank you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: This was such an honor.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean yeah, I mean I was I've
been so excited for this, So this is such an
honor and this lived up to all the hype. It
it exceeded all the expectations. So thank you so much.
I really hope I get to do this again with
you soon because this was so fun. This was so fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't wait till the next.
Speaker 1: Time most definitely. Oh, you'll also be hosting what Truth Wanted?
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I'll be hosting Truth Wanted May sixth.
Is it fifteenth or sixteenth something like? That's a Friday, Yeah,
it's at Friday and May. Yeah, So just so you'll
see me again pretty soon.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And monkey Boy, Yeah, I can't wait for that. That's
gonna be dope. Make sure you'all tuned in to that.
Thank y'all so much for being here today. Everyone, Like
I said, to the YouTube fam, to the TikTok stream,
until next week, we are here Sundays at four thirty
pm Central. Thank y'all so much for tuning in.
Speaker 2: Bye see ya, awad.
Speaker 1: Alday stop Qustday ship Emry around you buy.
Speaker 6: Y'all welcome.
Speaker 5: Ellen there.
Speaker 4: Watch talk Ee Than live Sundays at one pm Central.
Speaker 1: Visit tiny dot c c slash y t t H
and call into the show at five one two nine
nine one nine two four two, or connect to the
show online at tiny dot c c slash call th
H