WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.439 Hello, it's that landscape artwork you made at a paint 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.280 and sip event six years ago. Ali Ward, and Hey, 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:11.240 it's fall, it's creepy, it's spooky, it's apples. Listen. Okay, 4 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.679 we've got scarier subjects coming up this month, but I thought, 5 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:16.559 after a two parter on which culture, we needed to 6 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.320 lace up our worn up leather boots, wear a scarf, 7 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:21.359 and even though it's too hot for it, head to 8 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:25.079 an imaginary orchard to chat with someone who's about to 9 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.960 narrate every apple experience you have for the rest of 10 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.760 your life. I love her so. She's a professor at 11 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:35.159 the School of Integrative Plant Science Horticulture at Cornell University. 12 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:38.000 She got a bachelor's and a master's in plant science 13 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:41.719 and a PhD in genetics, and now leads Cornell's apple 14 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:45.719 breeding program, one of the largest fruit breeding programs in 15 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:47.439 the world. And we're going to get to it. But first, 16 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:50.320 thank you so much to everyone wearing news spooktober Ologies, 17 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:53.600 merch from ologiesmerch dot com. Thanks to all the patrons 18 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.359 supporting and submitting questions at patreon dot com, slash ologies, 19 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:01.439 and to the folks who leave reviews. Everyone such as 20 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:06.359 this ripe juicy submission from Georgie Corkory, who wrote ologies 21 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:08.840 is the embodiment of nerds are cool. In fact, this 22 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:13.439 pod highlights that nerds are thrilling, diverse, sexy, wholesome, and quirky. 23 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:15.799 Georgie and the rest of us pig dorks, thank you 24 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:17.920 for those reviews. We are all of those things, and 25 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:20.200 those reviews really make my day and they help the 26 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:23.120 podcast so much. I read them all, So keep in comming. Okay. 27 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.400 Palmology it's a real word, and it's a discipline, and yeah, 28 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.239 it comes from the Latin palm for fruit, and it 29 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:32.280 can be applied to the whole branch of botany that 30 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:36.040 involves edible things. But pomology is typically used when talking 31 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:40.120 about apples. And this expert is as knowledgeable and as 32 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.879 charming as they come. So get ready for apple picking tips, 33 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:48.120 genetic mashups, taste test requirements, tart versus sour versus astringent, 34 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:54.319 wild apples versus domesticated, recipe tips, Oxidation, anticipation and frustration 35 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.920 in the Nation, DNA trivia, compost treasures, maggot babies, The 36 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.799 animal dung that changed History. How to have your own orchard, 37 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:07.239 The Sweet, Sweet taste of scientific redemption, keeping doctors away, 38 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.280 the loudest apple crunch on record, and what you're actually 39 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:14.080 tasting when you enjoy this feat of breeding with Professor 40 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.560 fruit geneticist and pomologist, doctor Susan K. 41 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:18.039 Brown. 42 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:37.680 I'm so excited to talk to you. Of all the 43 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:41.000 apple experts in the world, I was most excited to 44 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.120 talk to you. So when you said yes, I was 45 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:45.840 over the moon. I was like, yes, this is great. 46 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.599 So thank you for making time, especially during the harvest 47 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.280 or apple season, at least I think it is. 48 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.599 But it's harvest season and my daughter gets married a 49 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:55.639 week from tomorrow. 50 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:57.719 Oh my gosh, Okay, we'll make this quick. 51 00:02:57.759 --> 00:02:59.879 No no, no, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. 52 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:02.479 So she's having a fall wedding. 53 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.360 Yes, which everybody said that that would be mutiny in 54 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.319 their family, but you know why, it's your only daughter. 55 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.280 You say, okay, not good timing, but we'll do it. 56 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:13.599 Is she a fall person? 57 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:18.599 I think everybody is when you're in upstate because it's 58 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:19.800 so beautiful here. 59 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:20.719 It's gorgeous. 60 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:21.280 Yeah. 61 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:24.840 I wasn't sure, being from you know, southern California where 62 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:27.879 we have essentially like one and a half seasons. I 63 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.000 wasn't sure when apple harvesting actually is. I want to 64 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:32.680 say it's around now because that's when we used to 65 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.479 go to apple farms and orchard roe Kid in northern California. 66 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.639 But when is like pick and season? 67 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:43.039 Okay, so it can start as early as August, but commercial, 68 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.439 you know, people really don't usually go to the orchards 69 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:51.199 until September. But the peak, the big weekend is Columbus 70 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:52.360 Day weekend. 71 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:54.319 Just a side out in the US. This is usually 72 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:57.360 the second Monday in October. And the holiday was started 73 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.960 to honor Italian American heritage. About twenty years ago. People 74 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.719 were like, how do we feel about Christopher Columbus? Not good? 75 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.960 Got it? And many cities started swapping the holiday out 76 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:11.240 for Indigenous People's Day. But Columbus, Ohio really could go 77 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:14.439 anywhere with the day, and so they've decided to honor veterans. 78 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.639 What is my damn point that no one has made 79 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.600 another mid October holiday all about apples? Boy, howdy, I 80 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:22.920 reckon we need one. 81 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:26.279 And that's when the bumper sales are out. But we 82 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:31.120 have just so many different apple festivals, red side stands, 83 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.920 large producers, and so you know, wherever you go, you 84 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.319 can't turn around without seeing an apple orchard. 85 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:40.399 Did you grow up like going to field trips and 86 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:42.360 things in orchards? I know I did, and that it 87 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:43.759 became a magical place. 88 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.079 We didn't so much because we didn't have a lot 89 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.519 of apple orchards where I grow up, but of course 90 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:53.000 my dad had the apple trees, and my mom's family 91 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:56.519 wasn't farming, so you know, we were exposed to it. 92 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:01.920 But what a bad story. My kids were little and 93 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.360 they came home and they said, Mom, we went an 94 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:07.800 apple or trood and we had cider when we picked 95 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:11.079 apples from the trees. And my husband said, shame on you. 96 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:16.319 Because you had them, or just because because. 97 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:18.680 We had them. But you know, we're so busy and 98 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.480 you're so overwhelmed with apples that the last thing you 99 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.199 think of doing is taking your kids out. So after 100 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.399 that we started making sure that they were always out, 101 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.199 and little kids just liked to be able to bite 102 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.839 into an apple, throw it to the ground, and try 103 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:35.439 another one. 104 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:39.879 How did you end up doing this as a job. 105 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.920 Not a lot of people get to right immerse themselves 106 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.959 at orchards and varieties and plants right fruit. 107 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:50.920 So my mom was an amazing green thumb, so we 108 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:53.959 always had a lot of flowers. My dad had a 109 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.639 big vegetable garden, so my mom started the fascination with plants, 110 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.319 because they really are just amazing. And then my dad 111 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:06.800 bred racing pigeons of all things, so homing pigeons will 112 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:11.800 always come home, but especially in Connecticut and other areas, 113 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.560 they will take the pigeons, put them on a truck, 114 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.399 drive them several hundred miles away, and then there's a 115 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:23.079 lever that lets them all off at the same time, 116 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.879 and you bet on whether your pigeons will come back 117 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.639 before others. But he taught me about the genetics of 118 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:33.480 you know, different patterns and some of the things that 119 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:37.000 you look for, and he would talk about selection. So 120 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:41.639 he would say, see them flying, the last one is 121 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:43.879 a little weak, and sure enough a hawk would come 122 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.079 and get it, which was a kind of a terrifying 123 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.759 lesson for a young child, but you know, so that 124 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:53.519 was really great. And then my brother was a science teacher, 125 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.920 and I was always around nature. But when I went 126 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.759 to the University of Connecticut and took my first botany course, 127 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:03.879 I fell in love. And then I took my first 128 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:08.000 plant breeding course and I realized that I could create something, 129 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.600 and I could create something that no one else had 130 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.839 ever seen, but even more importantly, with fruit that no 131 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.199 one else had ever tasted. 132 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.839 The snosberries taste like snosberries. 133 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.839 So my predecessor said that being an apple breeder is 134 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:27.319 like being an explorer and an unknown land. So when 135 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:30.319 you bite into an apple that you created, it may 136 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:33.680 be the world's best apple, or it may be what 137 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.879 we referred to as the spitters. You created it and 138 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:42.759 to be able to, you know, do something that no 139 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.319 one else has done, and you know a lot of 140 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.000 times it isn't a success, but when it is, boy, 141 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:49.360 is that gratifying? 142 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.879 Do you have to wait years before you know if 143 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:54.839 something's delicious or a spitter? 144 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:56.240 Correct? 145 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:00.519 Oh, that is so much patience. How do you cultivate 146 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:01.480 that much patience? 147 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.079 No, it's more impatients, I think. So we learned ways 148 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.360 to make it quicker. So if I talk to somebody 149 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:11.720 that works in tomatoes, they're like, oh my god, it 150 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.199 takes so long. But it used to take twenty to 151 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.040 more like forty years to where a variety you thought 152 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.519 might be successful. And I was like, I can't you know? 153 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:27.600 You could retire before you know you're any good. And 154 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:32.120 so I started looking at ways to use certain parents 155 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:36.600 to make fruit occur quicker, to do cultural conditions to 156 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.320 make them come into fruit, to use dwarfing rootstocks which 157 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.039 allow them to produce fruit sooner. 158 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.799 More on rootstocks in a bit is bananas is apples. 159 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.919 And so with the case of New York wan Ers Snapdragon, 160 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:53.879 one of our releases, it was the fastest from cross 161 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:57.559 to commercialization. I think it was eleven years and that's 162 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.799 still a long time, but that's cutting it by decades. 163 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:04.879 Holy smokes. Are you able to say, like, I worked 164 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:07.000 on this apple and this apple and this apple. Do 165 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.080 you have like a running list in your head? 166 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:12.679 Of course, but the two that are receiving the most 167 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:17.440 attention right now are Snapdragon and Ruby Frost. And Snapdragon 168 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:22.440 in particular is the only, I think, official apple of 169 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.320 an NFL team. So it's the official apple of the 170 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:26.240 Buffalo Bills. 171 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:27.279 Oh my god. 172 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:31.600 Yeah, So I mean that's that is cool. So we 173 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.279 are going to have a documentary out that is through 174 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:40.919 Viewpoint and Dennis Quaid moderates it. But they videoed us 175 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:46.279 from the idea of making that variety to the marketing 176 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.080 that was involved and our marketing group has won many 177 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:55.240 different awards. Snapdragon just recently won an award for Outstanding 178 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:59.240 for Cultivar from my professional society, which is the American 179 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:04.600 Society for Horticultural Sciences, and the name recognition. They really 180 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.279 did such a nice job tying in the s Dragon 181 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:12.120 logo a tagline monster Crunch. So we're doing it. It's 182 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:15.000 a lot different, and in the past we didn't have 183 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:16.080 money for marketing. 184 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.039 And one thing that their marketing department did not count 185 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.480 on was some weird lady with a niche podcast emailing 186 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.200 to ask their mad scientist fruit highness to talk about 187 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:29.200 her apples and not having a single Snapdragon apple in 188 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.000 front of me. Woefully, I had to comb the internet 189 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.279 for descriptions, which have included spicy sweet, a hint of vanilla, 190 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:41.840 crisp flesh, exceptional juiciness, and monster crunch. So how many 191 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.000 people have to grow a new apple before it's market ready? Like, 192 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.559 who has backstage access to new apples? 193 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.120 So this was a closed release something called a club, 194 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:55.720 but every grower in New York State had the opportunity 195 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:59.279 to join. And then we stipulated that twenty five percent 196 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.679 of the pro seeds had to go to marketing, and 197 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:04.200 that's made all the difference. 198 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.480 I was going to ask who is behind big Apple 199 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.720 if it takes eleven years for a quicker version to 200 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.159 make it to market, Like who pays for the recon 201 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:15.559 Is there like an Apple council? 202 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.240 Oh no. So Cornell University has been very generous about 203 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.320 supporting my program, but it has become more challenging. There's 204 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:29.240 only three major apple university programs in the US, and 205 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:33.120 you contrast that with like Japan, and every province has 206 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:36.360 their own an apple breeder. We used to in the past. 207 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.039 Even as early as the nineteen seventies, there was a 208 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.559 breeder in almost every state. 209 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:45.200 If you're wondering how many provinces does Japan have, like 210 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:49.559 seven or one hundred? Welcome to being me anyway, Japan 211 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.720 forty seven prefectures. But if you're wondering how many ancient 212 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:57.720 provinces were in Japan, there were sixty nine. But back 213 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.360 to apples. So Cornell's made quite a history in the 214 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:03.279 apple world, and they support a lot of agriculture research 215 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.240 of this ILK and the breeding programs are also funded 216 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:10.440 by the New York apple growers, who all tax themselves 217 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.759 and then they pitch in for research, and Susan says 218 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:17.240 that one group of growers called crunch Time Apples got 219 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.639 together the marketing for Snapdragon, even though they all have 220 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.879 full time jobs getting apples to your fruit baskets and 221 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:24.879 your sack lunches. 222 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.399 But they were confident in the varieties, and they were 223 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.120 confident in our program and the data that we had. 224 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:34.320 And it's been a wonderful partnership. I mean it's just 225 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.279 we we kit around a lot. But to see drone 226 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:42.759 footage of some of our packing houses and the people 227 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.519 and to hear customers say that's my favorite apple just 228 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.200 doesn't get better than the. 229 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:51.720 Who gets to name it? Because Snapdragons such a good name, 230 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:53.159 Like do you have to vote? 231 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.639 Uh? Well, we were able to have input, but in 232 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:59.440 the past we used to name we the breeder or 233 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:02.960 the universe used to name the apple. And I will 234 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:06.399 tell you that it's hard to name something because you 235 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.440 can't name it if it's been used before. And there 236 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.360 are on record over fourteen thousand names. Oh my god, 237 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.279 So you know we're going to start becoming like the 238 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:21.039 pharmacy Xyz or Exulta. But when I first heard the 239 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.440 name Snapdragon, I was like, that's a flower, because you know, 240 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.320 I'm in horticulture. But then they showed the logo and 241 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:32.279 they showed the taglines, and it resonates with kids and 242 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:36.440 it's very memorable. So that was one where they suggested 243 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:40.559 several different names, and a grower, Mark Russell, really felt 244 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.000 that snapdragon was the best name, and he led a 245 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.120 campaign to make that be the case. And then ruby 246 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.440 Frost is a good name, but it just doesn't resonate 247 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.639 as well. A friend of mine, the Minnesota breeder, came 248 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:57.000 up with honey crisp, and that was a great name 249 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.000 because it's sweet and it's crisp. But then so many people, 250 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:05.240 people myself included, started using crisp that a group from 251 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:13.480 Ohio that has a private program they called an apple ludacrisps. 252 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:15.799 When you see that, you've got to be like, that's 253 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:19.480 got to be the crispiest, just that it's so out there, 254 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.519 right you're wondering about other apple names. I was too, 255 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:24.919 and to the point that I scrolled through a list 256 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.600 of several several hundred to find the ones that might 257 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.240 tickle us. And even though it was past my bedtime, 258 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.279 I kept scrolling through because there are so many tasty 259 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:40.399 little treats such as hoary Morning, Northern spy, Cocklee, Pippin, Flushing, Spitzenberg, sakm, Girdle, 260 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:48.559 Sleeping Beauty, Ronk, Dazzle, Bloody, Plowman, Cheese, just Cheese, scrumptious, pumpkin, 261 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:53.720 sweet pit Mason, pineapple, scarlet, cranberry, sac and sugar one 262 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:58.480 named water. There's also poorthhouse and Rambo. So next time 263 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.159 you need to name a pet, or a car or 264 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:05.000 a firstborn, look no further than a big ass list 265 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.480 of unhinged heirloom apple names. Speaking of which, let's go 266 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:11.120 back in time. Well, you know a huge question I 267 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.840 have is Johnny Appleseed a legend, a myth? Knowing what 268 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.320 little I know about apples, I understand you cannot just 269 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.080 throw seeds down and all these different apple varieties will 270 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:23.240 sprout up, right. 271 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.919 Right, There's a book that's really good, and I think 272 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.919 it's called Johnny Appleseed, the Man, the myth, the legend. 273 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.399 So Johnny Appleseed became glamorized by Disney and some of 274 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.960 the books that were written kids books about him. But 275 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:41.679 there really was that gentleman, except he used apple seeds. 276 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.879 So when you cut open an apple, so if it's 277 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.639 nap Dragon or Empire or whatever your favorite apple is. 278 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:54.399 When you cut open the apple, those seeds have let's 279 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.960 say Empire as the parent, but fifty percent of the 280 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.519 genes come from whatever the be brought in as pollen. 281 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.720 Could be a crab apple, it could be golden, delicious, 282 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.000 it could be delicious, it could be any number of things. 283 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:13.039 And sometimes even seeds within the apple have different combinations appearance. 284 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.120 And so that's why when you plant an apple seed, 285 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:21.080 you don't get that variety. You get a descendant of it, 286 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:25.080 but it's not going to be anywhere near that same variety. 287 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.000 So the only way that you can make a genetic 288 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:31.399 copy of an apple tree is to use clonal propagation. 289 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.039 That's where you take a bud or a piece of 290 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:39.960 fruiting wood and you put it on a rootstock. It's 291 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.120 like making a genetic xerox or copy of that tree. 292 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.960 And so each bud is a genetic replica. And if 293 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.120 you use one hundred buds, you'll get a hundred trees 294 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:55.240 and they're all the same as that original seedling. So 295 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.519 when you think about it, Macintosh was discovered in the 296 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:03.320 seventeen hundreds. Every tree that's been propagated, dates back to 297 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:04.920 that original ancestor. 298 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.400 Whoa are all the snapdragons that you might find do 299 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:11.880 they come from a single tree that really had the 300 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:13.359 best traits? 301 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:18.440 Right? Well, so they do and they don't. So the 302 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.000 first tree started everything. You have a first generation, you 303 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.519 have a second generation, but the original source of it. 304 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:30.160 It's like when they do those anthropology studies, you know, 305 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.759 the Eve is that original tree. 306 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.359 And this refers to a matrilineal line of ancestry or 307 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:40.759 the so called mitochondrial Eve of African origin that researchers 308 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.000 date back to between one hundred and forty and two 309 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.799 hundred thousand years ago. Journalists kind of coined that biblical 310 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:50.519 term because it made headlines. But Alan Wilson, a biochemist 311 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.240 who co founded the theory, did not like the reference 312 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.599 to an eve character, and he preferred the term lucky mother, 313 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.319 which I think is more sweet and crisp. But on 314 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.920 this topic, let's kick it back to the late seventeen hundreds. 315 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.319 Let me go back to what you had asked about 316 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:10.240 Johnny Appleseed. Yeah, okay, So Johnny Appleseed was interesting in that, 317 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:17.200 rather than bringing buds or trees to the colonists. He 318 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.599 was bringing apple seeds because he could get them from 319 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.599 a sidary. So when you presh cider, the apple seeds 320 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.480 are left, they have bags of them. He would collect 321 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:29.720 those bags, and he was a shrewd businessman, so he 322 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.200 would find a piece of land he would plant those seeds, 323 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.279 and now he is having a combination of trees that 324 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:42.960 aren't named varieties, but he can give to settlers very inexpensively. 325 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:46.799 He did that to spread the word of the Sweden's 326 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:52.440 Borough religion. Oh and interestingly, Johnny Appleseed thought it was 327 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:59.839 morally wrong to graft two different trees together. I don't 328 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.519 know why, but he did, and so he used the 329 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:05.480 seeds as a way to get his foot in the 330 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.079 door and then to try to spread the word of 331 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:09.799 his religion. 332 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:15.759 Well, so where did they come from before colonists in America? 333 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.799 Okay, so great question. The original origin of apple is 334 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:26.039 in the northern China, Kazakhstan, in other parts of the 335 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:26.920 Soviet Union. 336 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:29.400 Just a tiny bit of history here. So the apples 337 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.799 you're eating are malice domestica, unless you're foraging in the 338 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:39.079 valleys of Kazakhstan, where wild apples malice cier versii still 339 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:42.480 dangle from one hundred year old trees, some are several 340 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:47.079 stories high, and wild apples there very completely from tree 341 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:50.279 to tree, because remember the pollination of apples is a 342 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:54.319 total crapshoot, depending on what a bee brings in from 343 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:58.480 its butt. So the wild apple sizes and textures and 344 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:02.920 tastes are all over the But evolutionarily the local bears 345 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.119 preferred the sweetest, biggest ones, and they would clamber up 346 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.039 trees before the winter to get them, kind of naturally 347 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.720 pruning the trees with these giant, hungry claws, and then 348 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.000 they would leave with bellies full of apple seed to 349 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:20.680 disperse like confetti as they lumbered toward hibernation. So those 350 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:24.319 seeds tend to grown to bigger, tastier apples, which the 351 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.680 horses love. And guess what sweet pooping beasts people rode 352 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:32.680 along the Silk Road. Well, camels, but also horses who 353 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.599 love apples. Now, this Great Silk Road was a network 354 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.279 of trade routes and it stretched over four thousand miles 355 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:46.799 between the coast east of now Beijing, through China, India, Iran, Turkey, 356 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.279 North Africa, and Russia into eastern Europe. And this series 357 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:53.720 of sandy and hilly and foresty highways were the way 358 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.079 to go for fifteen hundred years up until about six 359 00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.799 hundred years ago. And just like we have flying j 360 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.200 truck stops to buy thirty two ouncers of Bajab blast, 361 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.799 the Silk Road had inns and stops and they were 362 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:11.079 called caravansaries. You just stop along the way four thousand 363 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.960 miles that has so many pea breaks, no drive through burritos, 364 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.759 no podcasts, just your camel named Gary and some guy 365 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.759 curtain a barrel of buttons who's telling the same story 366 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:23.680 about the time he fought a drunk goat and the 367 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.759 goat won. That is a long road. 368 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.079 And then they traveled by the Silk Route to Europe. 369 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:35.680 But each time they were traveling, if seeds were dropped 370 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:40.000 or if animals like horses ate them, they would Germany 371 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:43.720 and then they would cross with species. So that's a 372 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:48.480 relative of apple in that region. And so we called 373 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:51.359 that introgression. So if you've done an ancestry and me, 374 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.240 if you look at the apple, you can see the 375 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.880 different areas that it was colonized in. And then when 376 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.799 the settlers came to North America in pursuit of religious 377 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:10.279 freedom and hopefully wealth. They brought seeds with them. Sometimes 378 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:15.359 they brought trees, but the trees from the UK and 379 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:19.680 other places weren't adapted to America. So when the colonists 380 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:24.480 came here, they found several different native apples. But the 381 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.799 native apples are tiny, little crab apples, and as the 382 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:33.000 Row explained, they were sour enough to make a jaybird scream. 383 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:39.160 So sometimes they cross pollinated with some of the seeds 384 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:43.559 that the colonists brought. But at that time people were 385 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:49.319 using seeds and apples as a source of safe drinking 386 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:54.480 material and not necessarily hardsider. The water had problems with, 387 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:59.519 you know, animals and food safety, and so the government 388 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.559 asked you to plant four acres of apples because you 389 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.839 could make cider and have a form of liquid that 390 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.680 was safer for you. But then other people say, well, 391 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.799 Johnny apple Seed was successful because he brought liquor to 392 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.640 the colonists. But you know, there's nuances to the story. 393 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.480 Well, the differences between regions, whether it's kazakh Sander, the UK, 394 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:27.680 or Washington State or upstate New York or in the 395 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:31.519 mountains of southern California, are there any differences like terra 396 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:32.680 noir like with grapes. 397 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:36.279 Yeah, we don't really call it that, but I think 398 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.680 in the future that may happen. And there's actually been 399 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:44.279 some really cool studies that even in a relatively close area, 400 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.720 so let's say within half a mile of one another, 401 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.599