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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Naharikananda and you're listening to Express podcasts. Early

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<v Speaker 1>childhood development, or ECD, is one of the most critical

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<v Speaker 1>investments a society can make. The right amount of care

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<v Speaker 1>during the first few years of a child's life can

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<v Speaker 1>influence lifelong health, learning and productivity. Access to quality nutrition,

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<v Speaker 1>health care, responsive caregiving, early learning opportunities, and a safe

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<v Speaker 1>environment during these formative years help children reach their full potential. However,

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<v Speaker 1>achieving these outcomes requires sustained and adequate financing. Investments in

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<v Speaker 1>early childhood services like preschool, education and caregiver support often

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<v Speaker 1>yield some of the highest social and economic returns. As

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<v Speaker 1>part of our ongoing collaboration with Mobile Treasures, we bring

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<v Speaker 1>to you the fifth and final episode of the series,

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<v Speaker 1>where we talk about the need for consistent and adequate

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<v Speaker 1>financing for ECD, which can in the long term translate

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<v Speaker 1>into increased women's participes in the workforce, improved educational outcomes,

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<v Speaker 1>increased productivity, and a better future. To have this conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>we are joined by Shaikofei Zongi, who is the Global

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<v Speaker 1>technical lead at Early Childhood Development Action Network. She has

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<v Speaker 1>worked extensively for early childhood development and rural development and

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<v Speaker 1>has a background in comparative and international education shake fame.

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<v Speaker 1>Every government talks about children being the future, yet ECD

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<v Speaker 1>allocations as a share of GDP or national budgets have

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<v Speaker 1>remained stubbornly low for years. Is the real challenge simply

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<v Speaker 1>finding more money? Or is it that governments often lack

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<v Speaker 1>a clear roadmap to finance ECD effectively? What would it

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<v Speaker 1>actually take to see investment move from political rhetoric to

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<v Speaker 1>meaningful action.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you for that question, and really happy to

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<v Speaker 2>be here. Just in May, we brought together about three

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<v Speaker 2>hundred people from forty countries, including India and Mobile Pressures

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<v Speaker 2>was present at the meeting in Kigali, Rwanda for the

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<v Speaker 2>first ever Global Technical Financing Forum and Early Childhood And honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>this was the main question. This was the core question

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of framed the three days we were there together.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the honest answer from an early childhood

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<v Speaker 2>perspective is, of course it's both. But the second part

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<v Speaker 2>of the question is that is what nobody really talks about.

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<v Speaker 2>So what I mean is we don't have a money problem.

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<v Speaker 2>In the abstract, you know, a minimum package of one

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<v Speaker 2>year of quality early childhood education for all children would

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<v Speaker 2>cost an average I think less than zero point fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>percent of GDP and low and middle income countries, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's not a lot of money. And the cost of inaction,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a lot of data that shows it's eight

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<v Speaker 2>to nineteen times the cost of investing, depending on the context.

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<v Speaker 2>So the economics are overwhelming. And but what we heard

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<v Speaker 2>from governments in Kigali over and over again is that

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<v Speaker 2>the financing change in the system, it actually breaks down

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<v Speaker 2>at every single link in the system. So we have

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<v Speaker 2>countries that have strong policies, really strong ones, but unfunded.

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<v Speaker 2>We have budget lines that exist, but they are executed.

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<v Speaker 2>Early childhood spending is scattered sometimes across ministries of health, education, nutrition,

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<v Speaker 2>social protection, but nobody can actually tell you the total

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<v Speaker 2>because the system doesn't properly track it. So it isn't

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<v Speaker 2>just about finding more money, although that is an important

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<v Speaker 2>piece of it, but it's the second piece around the

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<v Speaker 2>systems that I think it's really important. So I would

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<v Speaker 2>say three things. First, this is the work of system building.

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<v Speaker 2>We have to figure out how to make early childhood

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<v Speaker 2>visible in the budgets, so creating codes, tags, tracking systems

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<v Speaker 2>so that a Ministry of finance can easily see what

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<v Speaker 2>the country is spending on its youngest children, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>missing in most of the world. Second is the cost

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<v Speaker 2>of services themselves. Most countries don't actually know clearly what

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<v Speaker 2>it costs to deliver quality early child services, and without

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<v Speaker 2>that you cannot make a credible case for more funding ever.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's just that basic foundational work. And the third

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<v Speaker 2>and I think this is why as a global community

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<v Speaker 2>we're building this financing toolbox is to give our partners

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<v Speaker 2>and governments a very pragmatic roadmap for financing. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just about you know, throwing more advocacy and evidence

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<v Speaker 2>at policy makers. I mean, we have a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>evidence of why it matters. And what I find oftentimes

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<v Speaker 2>is even if that is known, I think where people

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<v Speaker 2>get stuck is how do we actually identify where are

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<v Speaker 2>the financing gaps? How do you match services with the

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<v Speaker 2>right financing instruments? Oftentimes you have instruments that are just

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<v Speaker 2>not a right fit for the type of early childhood

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<v Speaker 2>services we have. And then how do you build a credible,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, realistic, executable pathway from where we are and

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<v Speaker 2>where we need to be. So looking at the short, medium,

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<v Speaker 2>long term, so early child that cannot survive on goodwill alone.

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<v Speaker 2>We need the same kind of serious financial planning and

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<v Speaker 2>execution that we give to infrastructure, to health, to defense.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the type of seriousness I think our field

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<v Speaker 2>also leads to take right.

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<v Speaker 1>And when financing is driven by short term parities or

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<v Speaker 1>simple enrollment targets, quality, equity, and sustainability are often the

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<v Speaker 1>first casualties. So how can governments make financing decisions that

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<v Speaker 1>expand access while also ensuring resources reach the children and

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<v Speaker 1>services where they will have the greatest long term impact.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think this is such an important question, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is the really core financing challenge. And

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<v Speaker 2>I know over the years we've had a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>increase in just access and in fact, UNITSUFF had published

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<v Speaker 2>a really important report in twenty nineteen. I know the

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<v Speaker 2>data is a little bit out of date, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think the core principles and the core messages are so

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<v Speaker 2>true today. The report was called the World Ready to Learn,

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<v Speaker 2>and they laid it out very clearly that pre primary

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<v Speaker 2>education is so deeply underfunded globally relative to other education levels.

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<v Speaker 2>Only about six point six percent of education budgets go

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<v Speaker 2>to pre price and in South Asia, I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>almost two percent. And so what we're finding is that

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<v Speaker 2>the internationally recommended benchmark, for example, from the Tushcan declaration

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<v Speaker 2>you know, which was done by UNESCO, was ten percent,

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<v Speaker 2>and most countries are nowhere near that. So the fundamental

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<v Speaker 2>problem is that pre primary education is actually seen as

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<v Speaker 2>competing with primary and secondary for the same pot of

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<v Speaker 2>money because expanding access with that quality. We have so

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<v Speaker 2>much evidence that shows that the outcomes we just don't

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<v Speaker 2>get and in fact sometimes it's you know, even goes

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<v Speaker 2>in the opposite negative harm direction as well. And on

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<v Speaker 2>the inequities piece, and in fact, I think it was

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<v Speaker 2>Sumitra from Mobile Crushes that was a very powerful voice

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<v Speaker 2>at the conference about this, is that are we scaling

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<v Speaker 2>you know, inequity for all or equity for a few?

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<v Speaker 2>Like what are we doing here? So I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a few things that we can consider. First, workforce, we

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<v Speaker 2>need to look at it as infrastructure where you cannot

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<v Speaker 2>deliver quality early learning without qualified, supported, fairly compensated educators

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<v Speaker 2>early educators and I think, you know, Indian anganwadi workers

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<v Speaker 2>are a perfect example of this. So the second is

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<v Speaker 2>using financing to drive, like how we designed financing to

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<v Speaker 2>drive equity and not just about expanding coverage. And third,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say is, and this is something that came

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<v Speaker 2>out in the financing forum very clearly, is to stop

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<v Speaker 2>separating the conversation about access from the conversation about quality.

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<v Speaker 2>So every financing decision needs to ask like does this

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<v Speaker 2>expand access and quality? It's not an either or.

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<v Speaker 1>Right and Shiko Fame Early Childhood Development Action Network has

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<v Speaker 1>worked alongside governments across Asia and other regions on strengthening

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<v Speaker 1>ECIT systems and financing. What common financing challenges have you

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<v Speaker 1>seen countries grapple with and what have you learned about

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of practical support governments need to move from

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<v Speaker 1>recognizing the important of easily to actually financing it effectively.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So we work with many, many countries all around

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<v Speaker 2>the world, and it's kind of shocking how the pattern

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<v Speaker 2>is quite consistent. I think most of the governments will

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<v Speaker 2>tell you that early childhood matters, but when you actually

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<v Speaker 2>follow the money, the story is different. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>the most common challenge with early childhood is I like

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<v Speaker 2>to say, like, when it's everybody's priority, it's nobody's budget problem.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when everyone says yes, yes, yes, that's important.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it's nobody's responsibility. And again, as I previously said,

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<v Speaker 2>early childhood, because it sits across multiple ministries health, education,

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<v Speaker 2>social protection, nutrition, sometimes women's affairs, it belongs to everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>and it belongs to no one. So there's no single

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<v Speaker 2>minister who loses their job if early childhood doesn't get funded.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you compare that to let's say primary education,

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<v Speaker 2>which often has a legal mandate and a dedicated budget,

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<v Speaker 2>early childhood is competing with this very structural, in built

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<v Speaker 2>disadvantage that I think we need to think about how

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<v Speaker 2>to shift that. The second challenge is on costing. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a diagnostic study done in Kenya, Tanzania and

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<v Speaker 2>Mozambique and they found that the absence of any costed

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<v Speaker 2>implementation plans was one of the main barriers to successful

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<v Speaker 2>policy implementation. With adequate finances, so you can have the

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<v Speaker 2>best policy in the world. I mean, this seems so simple,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you don't know what it costs to deliver,

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<v Speaker 2>you really cannot make that case to ministries of finance.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's not how the ministries of finance operate.

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<v Speaker 2>So just that basic thing. And third is is this

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<v Speaker 2>fragmentation problem, So it's not just the government problem. So

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that we found at the Financing Forum,

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<v Speaker 2>and one of the chairs of the sessions set it

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<v Speaker 2>really directly to the partners in the room, like how

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<v Speaker 2>can the early child the community globally like stop contributing

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<v Speaker 2>to the fragmentation. We have so many organizations going to

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<v Speaker 2>the same government officials with different frameworks, different different piece

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<v Speaker 2>of the puzzle, different reporting requirements, different project cycles. I

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<v Speaker 2>think we have to look at ourselves like we ourselves

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<v Speaker 2>are also part of the problem. So I think what

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<v Speaker 2>governments need is actually quite simple. It's very practical, hands on,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, doing the financing work, costing their services, tracking

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<v Speaker 2>their spending, identifying realistic financing options, building those pathways that

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<v Speaker 2>fit within the public financing management systems. And again I

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<v Speaker 2>keep going back to this global public good that we're

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<v Speaker 2>working on. This financing toolbox. We tested it first with

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<v Speaker 2>the Government of Rwanda where we spent two days at

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<v Speaker 2>the Ministry of Finance, the fifty stakeholders from eight government

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<v Speaker 2>institutions mapping financing gaps, testing it against real services. And

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<v Speaker 2>so it's a working tool that's designed to be used

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<v Speaker 2>by people who actually make budget decisions. So and one example,

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<v Speaker 2>one insight from Burundi that I think captures the potential.

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<v Speaker 2>They did something so simple. They did a cost benefit

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<v Speaker 2>analysis that showed in Burundi specifically, so not taking global data,

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<v Speaker 2>but that contextual data in Burundi, for every dollar investment

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<v Speaker 2>in early childhood, the country would gain eighteen dollars by

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<v Speaker 2>twenty to fifty. And so when that evidence that was

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<v Speaker 2>paired with the capacity building on public financing, the investments

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<v Speaker 2>in early childhood triples. And it wasn't just the evidence,

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<v Speaker 2>it was the evidence combined with the practical financing support. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>And India has a very massive population of young children

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<v Speaker 1>between the ages of three and six, yet public investment

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<v Speaker 1>in pre primary education remains relatively modest as a share

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<v Speaker 1>of GDP compared with many other countries. Looking beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>headline figures, where do you think India's greatest opportunities lie

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<v Speaker 1>to strengthen financing for early childhood development and what kind

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<v Speaker 1>of financing approaches could realistically make the biggest difference.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So India is really fascinating because so much infrastructure

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<v Speaker 2>already exists that we don't see in many other places.

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<v Speaker 2>As you mentioned, ICDs is one of the largest early

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<v Speaker 2>childhood programs in the world. The national Education policy recognize

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<v Speaker 2>pre primary within the formal education structure. So we have

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<v Speaker 2>the platforms and the policy commitments, and so the question

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<v Speaker 2>is like whether the financing architecture is matching the scale

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<v Speaker 2>of the ambition that's there. And I want to be

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<v Speaker 2>really upfront, I'm definitely not an India specialist, and so

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<v Speaker 2>the specifics of what will work obviously needs to come

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<v Speaker 2>from Indian policy makers and researchers who understand, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the political economy, the institutional landscapes. But what I can

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<v Speaker 2>share is what we're seeing globally that I think might

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<v Speaker 2>be relevant for the Indian context, and I'd love to

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<v Speaker 2>learn more as well. So first is that I think

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<v Speaker 2>countries that are making progress, they're the ones that are

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<v Speaker 2>finding the dedicated, sustainable, consistent revenue streams for early childhood

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<v Speaker 2>rather than relying on only purely funding. So what I

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<v Speaker 2>mean by that is relying just on annual budget allocations

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<v Speaker 2>that fluctuate. So in the Philippines, for example, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>time on casino earnings that supports funding early childhood. In

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of US states, it's the tobacco settlements and

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<v Speaker 2>lottery funds, but the principle of finding dedicated revenue streams,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's one. Secondly, India has been such a

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<v Speaker 2>pioneer in some areas of innovative financing that are directly relevant,

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<v Speaker 2>so they educate girls. Development Impact Bond in Rajasthan was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the world's first. India has a CSR mandate

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<v Speaker 2>that generates billions annually. SEBI launched, you know, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the few like operational social stock exchanges globally to the

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<v Speaker 2>innovative finance infrastructure exists in India in ways that it

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<v Speaker 2>does in many other countries, and the question is whether

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<v Speaker 2>the early childhood sector is positioned to connect to it.

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<v Speaker 2>And right now I'm not sure where that is, but

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<v Speaker 2>that's a real gap and opportunity. It's a big gap

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<v Speaker 2>globally that the early childhood community in the social finance

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<v Speaker 2>community aren't talking to each other enough. Third, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is where you know, I think what I'm starting to

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<v Speaker 2>see emerge. And again India is a leader in this,

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<v Speaker 2>given that you hosted the G twenty a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years ago. We're early childhood in India's fundamentally also a

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<v Speaker 2>care economy question. And I know mobile pressures has been

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<v Speaker 2>leading that edge also, So India is having a major

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<v Speaker 2>natural conversation about women's labor force participation and childcare being

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<v Speaker 2>super central to that. And you know, as we know

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<v Speaker 2>pretty obviously, if women can't access affordable, quality childcare, they

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<v Speaker 2>can't participate in the workforce effectively. So framing, how can

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<v Speaker 2>we reframe early childhood investment as an economic infrastructure conversation,

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<v Speaker 2>so about workforce development, women's economic empowerment, human capital formation.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think those open new doors that just early

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<v Speaker 2>childhood programming alone, doesn't you know, How do we deepen

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<v Speaker 2>our engagement in conversations with finance ministries, planning commissions, and

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<v Speaker 2>the private sector using that type of framing. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think finally, India's federal structure creates such an interesting opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>for state level experiment and I think states can innovate

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<v Speaker 2>on financing ways that the big juggernaut like federal system

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<v Speaker 2>hunt and the best learnings and pilots and innovations. We

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<v Speaker 2>can then learn from that and scale that and from

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<v Speaker 2>what we see globally, the countries that make progress are

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<v Speaker 2>the ones that stop treating early childhood as just the

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<v Speaker 2>social program and start treating it as a natural development infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally, shak of fame. If there was one piece

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<v Speaker 1>of advice that you would want to give to governments,

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<v Speaker 1>development partners, businesses and philanthropists who genuinely want to increase

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<v Speaker 1>investment in easily, what would that be? And how can

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<v Speaker 1>they move beyond simply calling for more funding towards making

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<v Speaker 1>better informed financing decisions that deliver lasting impact for young children.

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<v Speaker 1>What can Early Childhood Development Action Network offer to support

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<v Speaker 1>these efforts?

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<v Speaker 2>So I think one piece of advice or one insight

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<v Speaker 2>that I think I've been repeating a lot is like

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<v Speaker 2>changing the question from how do we find the money

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<v Speaker 2>for early childhood and for us to collectively and consistently

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<v Speaker 2>be asking how do we build the financing system that

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<v Speaker 2>ensures money flows to children reliably? You're a fayear And

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<v Speaker 2>that difference, again, as I've mentioned before, is really really critical,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think this is the big shift in the

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<v Speaker 2>global conversation. Finding money can often be one time exercises.

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<v Speaker 2>You get the grant to fund a project, the project ends,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you start looking again. But building a financing

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<v Speaker 2>system means creating the architecture, you know, the budget codes,

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<v Speaker 2>the costing framework, the accountability mechanisms, like figuring out the

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<v Speaker 2>domestic revenue streams. That really makes early childhood a permanent,

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<v Speaker 2>protected part of how a country invests in in its

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<v Speaker 2>youngest you know, in the foundation of human capital. And

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<v Speaker 2>so for government specifically, I think the biggest shift would

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<v Speaker 2>be joining the financing conversation that are already happening. So

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<v Speaker 2>one of the big takeaways from our financing forum that

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<v Speaker 2>happened in Rwanda, one of the power insights was that

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<v Speaker 2>the money is flowing, you know, through debt negotiations, climate

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<v Speaker 2>finance resource for everythue, social health insurance reforms, but most

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<v Speaker 2>of the time, early childhood is just not at those tables.

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<v Speaker 3>And then for development partners and philanthropies, I would say

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<v Speaker 3>they're so concerned with like wanting to fund you know,

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<v Speaker 3>DIIRCT services, reaching the children, reaching.

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<v Speaker 2>The numbers, but what if they actually funded the infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 2>so not just the programs, fund the costing exercises, the

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<v Speaker 2>budget tracking systems, the public financial management reforms, the data systems,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, those like that glue those building blocks. That is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they don't immediately translate to you know, having

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<v Speaker 2>reached X number of children, but really in the long term.

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<v Speaker 2>This is what's going to keep the system working for

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<v Speaker 2>children and for business. I would say that early childhood

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<v Speaker 2>is care economy infrastructure. When women conta access childcare, businesses

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<v Speaker 2>lose talent and productivity. This is in corporate social responsibility,

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<v Speaker 2>it's economic self interest. I think the business case for

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<v Speaker 2>investing in early childhood is as strong as a social case,

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<v Speaker 2>but we just haven't cracked how to do that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>at scale yet and what the Early Childhood Development Action

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<v Speaker 2>Network what we can offer is that we are the

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<v Speaker 2>network that holds the complexity of the field together. We

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<v Speaker 2>can lean across sectors and geographies. We co lead the

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<v Speaker 2>Innovative Financing Learning Group with Brooking, the Education Finance Network

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<v Speaker 2>and the Education Outcomes Fund. We're building this financing toolbox

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<v Speaker 2>that would be a global public good for everyone to

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<v Speaker 2>pilot and use and develop. And you know, we've worked

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<v Speaker 2>with them, so we have a lot of resources and

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<v Speaker 2>learning on offer and wanting to also learn from countries.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think what I would say is ninety nine

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<v Speaker 2>countries now have natural policies for early childhood, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that number might even be higher right now, but

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<v Speaker 2>the number of lone liment countries and national early child

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<v Speaker 2>policies has increased by forty eight percent just between twenty

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen to twenty twenty three. So the political will is

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<v Speaker 2>and then what's lacking behind is really this financing architecture

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<v Speaker 2>that can actually, you know, meet those ambitions, meet those needs.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's the gap that we all collectively

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<v Speaker 2>want to close.

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<v Speaker 1>You were listening to Shikofezongi on Express Podcasts. This episode

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00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.680
<v Speaker 1>was edited and mixed by Sriesh Pawar and produced by

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<v Speaker 1>me Nihari Kananda. You can find the links to our

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<v Speaker 1>previous episodes with mobile pressures in the description. If you

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