WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Hey.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we get started, be sure to head over to

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<v Speaker 2>Hamradio two dot com forward slash email Dash sign up

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<v Speaker 2>to join my email list of over nineteen thousand subscribers,

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<v Speaker 2>where I like to send emails about upcoming events, upcoming

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<v Speaker 2>shopping deals, keep you updated with all the stuff going

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<v Speaker 2>on with my videos. Once that list reaches twenty thousand,

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<v Speaker 2>I will be doing a giveaway of another HF radio

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<v Speaker 2>sign up today and thank you for the support. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>good evening, Thank you for joining. Tonight should be a

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<v Speaker 2>fun stream. We're gonna get started here in just one minute.

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<v Speaker 2>My chat plug in is not working tonight, so sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no chat on screen, but everybody's here. A good

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<v Speaker 2>deal Jody with the super chat already, Thanks buddy. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna kind of kick it over there. I

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<v Speaker 2>show seven o'clock in Texas. Good evening, Happy Sunday. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you for joining tonight. I'm gonna talk about some mesh

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<v Speaker 2>tastic stuff. One of the developers of the mesh Tastic

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's one of the developers. He's the guy

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<v Speaker 2>in the chat under the name of mesh Tastic I'm told,

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, yeah, good good evening. Thank you for joining.

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<v Speaker 2>And thank you for the email. But we did the

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<v Speaker 2>We did live stream with Spec five out of Texas

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<v Speaker 2>two or three weeks ago, and after that I got

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<v Speaker 2>an email from these guys. They were like, Hey, we're

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<v Speaker 2>some of the of the developers of the original mess

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<v Speaker 2>mesh Tastic firmware hardware, not hardware, but firmware mesh Mesh

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<v Speaker 2>networking system. So we're gonna learn all about it tonight,

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<v Speaker 2>and thanks for joining. Special shout out to all the

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<v Speaker 2>folks in green text in the chat. I see Doug

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<v Speaker 2>Douglas V Amateur Radio. Thanks for joining tonight, Tom ed

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<v Speaker 2>A C three, I K I see you in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Andy Kelly's in there, Wayne Kermit Cooley, who u KK

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<v Speaker 2>four p A L. Good evening, prep, Pam Paul, thanks

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<v Speaker 2>for joining tonight. Buddy Joe, I see you in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron W six h E R or Arthur. I'm sorry

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<v Speaker 2>not Aaron, Arthur. Appreciate you guys being here tonight. I

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<v Speaker 2>see Rob in there, and uh Izzo appreciate you guys

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<v Speaker 2>being here as well. So we're gonna we're gonna kick

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<v Speaker 2>it over to these guys here in just one second.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna do real quick. I don't really have

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<v Speaker 2>much in the way of announcements tonight, but we are

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<v Speaker 2>going to do a happy hour on Black Friday, So

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<v Speaker 2>Gigabarts is gonna come on. They're gonna tell us about

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<v Speaker 2>some holiday specials they're gonna be running. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>have a YouTube channel, and if you've been on one

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<v Speaker 2>of my Black Friday or on one of my Happy

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<v Speaker 2>Hour live streams before in the past, put mark that

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<v Speaker 2>down on your calendar. Probably start around eight o'clock that

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<v Speaker 2>night on Friday, Black the Act, the day after Thanksgiving,

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<v Speaker 2>Black Friday, So we're gonna be doing a happy hour there,

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<v Speaker 2>so more to come on that later. Sign up with

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<v Speaker 2>my email list to keep up with all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>If you haven't done that already. All right, let's do this,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, guys, we're gonna do this already. Okay, let's

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<v Speaker 2>do it, and we're gonna switch over and unmute you guys.

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<v Speaker 2>Good evening. How is everybody heat? It's impressive. It's impressive

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<v Speaker 2>that I ask a group of people how they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>and Frank doesn't just totally take over the audio, so

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<v Speaker 2>he's actually he's actually learned not to do that. So yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait till the done. Then you'd be like, okay, Frank.

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<v Speaker 2>So Frank is a developer, He's a C plus plus developer,

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<v Speaker 2>but he is not a meshtastic developer. I want that

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<v Speaker 2>made clear. At the beginning of the stream tonight.

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<v Speaker 3>We were talking already.

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<v Speaker 2>I bet I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't do development. When I worked in it,

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<v Speaker 2>I fixed all the stuff that you could developers broke.

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<v Speaker 2>That was my job. I was the service desk guy.

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<v Speaker 3>So how do you fix code that works perfectly? It's

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<v Speaker 3>the end users configurations, you think.

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<v Speaker 2>Frank, I feel confident You've never had that issue, Frank,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, cheers to you, buddy. So restarted, Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>especially if it's on a Windows box you just relooted.

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<v Speaker 3>We tried turning on and off again.

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<v Speaker 4>Amazing how many times I would just walk in the

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<v Speaker 4>door and things would start working.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's incredible. Yeah. She'll be like, uh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this is my computer's doing this, and I'm like show

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<v Speaker 2>me and she's like, well, it's not doing it now.

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's mechanics.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, mechanics too, Yeah, totally.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh.

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<v Speaker 3>The other thing I hate is when you're at someone

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<v Speaker 3>else's desk and you're like, click on that, and you're like,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to say it, but I'm staring at

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<v Speaker 3>the button so hard. It's the start and go to here,

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<v Speaker 3>but when the roles are reversed, go ahead and go

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<v Speaker 3>to this and they're like uh and you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, uh, don't know, don't know, I can't find it. Well, guys, Jonathan,

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<v Speaker 2>Garth and JM thank you so much for joining me tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really looking forward to seeing what you guys have

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<v Speaker 2>to say. Why don't we go around the room real

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<v Speaker 2>quick and I'll just I'm just gonna start with Garth

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<v Speaker 2>because he's at the top of my screen. You guys

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<v Speaker 2>introduce yourself. Tell us what now are any of you

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<v Speaker 2>guys Ham Radio operators? I should ask that up front.

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<v Speaker 1>KG five are okay?

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<v Speaker 2>So Jonathan and Jmr Garth are you? I'm not okay?

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<v Speaker 2>So you're odd man. Now that's okay, that's all right,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no problem. We'll fix that totally. Yeah. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>actually didn't expect any of you to say yes to that,

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm impressed right now that you guys have my attention.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's good. Garth, where I'm gonna start with you

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<v Speaker 2>just give us a little short kind of introduction about yourself,

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<v Speaker 2>let us know what you do with Meshtastic, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we'll just move on from there. Thank you for joining.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah. I'm Garth vander Holland.

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<v Speaker 6>I work on the IOLs app, Apple, iPad and back

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<v Speaker 6>apps for Meshtastic, and then work very closely with Ben

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<v Speaker 6>the firmware and developer to trying to build new features,

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<v Speaker 6>and Jonathan as well to kind of prototype and build

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<v Speaker 6>out new features when we have great ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome. And the gentleman who couldn't be here tonight is

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<v Speaker 2>h what's his name again? It's Ben Ben? Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, cool, Well, thank you Garth, thanks for joining

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<v Speaker 2>us tonight. Jonathan, you're nut next on the screen, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>Sure, I'm Jonathan Bennett. I am in some circles the

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<v Speaker 4>Linux Guy. I have a podcast on the twit network

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<v Speaker 4>with Leo Laporte and then another podcast, Floss Weekly on Hackaday,

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<v Speaker 4>and one of my listeners was asking about Yeah, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>that guy if that rings a bell. So one of

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<v Speaker 4>my listeners was asking about some mesh solution and so

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<v Speaker 4>I went looking for the different open source mesh solutions

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<v Speaker 4>I found. I found meshtastic and I've liked it, but

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<v Speaker 4>I don't even remember what it was. But something in

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<v Speaker 4>there drove me nuts, and so I dove into the code.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like, hey, let's fix it. So I fixed that,

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<v Speaker 4>and then I fixed something else that I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>you guys have not really well working Linux support. Let

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<v Speaker 4>me see if I can fix that. And by that

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<v Speaker 4>point I was just I was hooked, and they made

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<v Speaker 4>me one of the leads, and then I haven't been

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<v Speaker 4>able to get away from the project since then.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the guy with the best microphone is a podcaster,

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<v Speaker 2>So that makes sense. Now, I get it. I get

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<v Speaker 2>I get where you're coming from. Thanks buddy, thanks for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us to.

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<v Speaker 3>Can I ask you a quick question? Said Twitch? I

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<v Speaker 3>went there years ago on a visit and that was fun.

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<v Speaker 3>Are you mona rogue or Brian Brushwood? Do you help

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<v Speaker 3>him out that much?

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<v Speaker 4>No, so, Brian is no longer doing anything with twit.

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<v Speaker 4>That ended quite a few years ago. I am a

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<v Speaker 4>fan of Brian's I watched some of their stuff, but

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<v Speaker 4>I've never I've never interacted.

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<v Speaker 3>With I just wonder if you're going to be down

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<v Speaker 3>there or a founders day, because I'm down there quite

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<v Speaker 3>Oh cool, but all right, I'm done. I'm done.

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<v Speaker 2>There, no no worries. Yeah, thank you, thanks for joining

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<v Speaker 2>to fan boy now yeah you're you're a fan boy

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<v Speaker 2>yeah JM your next buddy? What's that? And you got

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<v Speaker 2>to tell us about the hat? So yeah, yeah, that.

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<v Speaker 7>Comes next, That comes next. So yeah, am I used

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<v Speaker 7>to be a pretty in depth coder Imgetastic. For for

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<v Speaker 7>a while, I was the number two coder. And actually

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<v Speaker 7>he lived just a couple of miles away from the

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<v Speaker 7>founder of the Mechtastic software. His name is Kevin, really

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<v Speaker 7>wonderful person. We get together every once in a while,

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<v Speaker 7>and he just kept pulling me and pulling me into

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<v Speaker 7>the project. And one day he just started referring to

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<v Speaker 7>me as the project lead. I'm like, hmm, all right, right,

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<v Speaker 7>I got as, I got this, people's the project lead.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm like, okay, sure, sure, sure, And you know what

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<v Speaker 7>the title It sort of stuck. And so I haven't

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<v Speaker 7>really written much code in the while, but take on

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<v Speaker 7>a lot of the administrative, all the fun things like

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<v Speaker 7>lawyers and copyrights and more and more.

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<v Speaker 1>Lawyer you have drink from a couple.

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<v Speaker 7>Heard yeah, fun stuff, but had so I was at

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<v Speaker 7>open sauce. Uh the this William Housman's thing down here

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<v Speaker 7>in the San Francisco Bay area and they're giving away

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<v Speaker 7>free pencils. All right, all right, I got a pencil,

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<v Speaker 7>you know what, There's not much I can do with

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<v Speaker 7>a pencil. And they're selling these hats for like five dollars.

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<v Speaker 7>No what, I'm going to trade you this pencil for

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<v Speaker 7>that hat.

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<v Speaker 2>How very Ryan Trayhan of you. That's great?

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, yeah, it was awk. This hat is has the

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<v Speaker 7>value of a pencil.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's good.

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<v Speaker 7>And one day I'm going to be on Jason's show

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<v Speaker 7>one day. This has been in the back of my car,

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<v Speaker 7>literally in the pile in the back of my car. Well,

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<v Speaker 7>I'm like, I'm going to be on show, I remember.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, well I am glad you're here man. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you for joining tonight. And that's really cool. That's that

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<v Speaker 2>you're already Ham radio operator. So that's a that's a

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<v Speaker 2>plus in my book. But yeah, all right. So so

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<v Speaker 2>frank uh you're watching the chat for questions, So anybody

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<v Speaker 2>that wants to uh ask anything, please do feel free.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so tell us all about mesh Tastic, how

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<v Speaker 2>it came to be. Now, have have any of you,

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<v Speaker 2>especially you two Hams. You guys ever heard of Arden?

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<v Speaker 2>M so broadband broadband HAM network it used to be,

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<v Speaker 2>and then Arden kind of like was a new flavor

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<v Speaker 2>of it. It's bait. It's mesh networking with Ubiquity or

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<v Speaker 2>Tepee link type routers that we flash with the customized

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<v Speaker 2>firmware and put up in the air and create an

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<v Speaker 2>external mesh network, usually on the HAM radio portion of

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<v Speaker 2>the two point four gigahertz band, which is just on

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<v Speaker 2>a few frequencies below the public Wi Fi band. You

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<v Speaker 2>can do it on nine hundred megahertz and five gigaherds

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<v Speaker 2>and three giga it used to be three gigaherts also,

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<v Speaker 2>But right, yeah, so it it's it's still out there,

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<v Speaker 2>it's still being used. There's there's a lot of cool

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<v Speaker 2>stuff you can do with it. But when mesh tasted,

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<v Speaker 2>when I first learned them, I was not an early

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<v Speaker 2>adopter of mesh Tastic, But when I first learned about it,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, Man, this sounds a lot like Arden,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is better for two different reasons. Because number One,

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<v Speaker 2>most of y'all's stuff, I think, or most of the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff I've done, is on the nine hundred megahertz band,

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<v Speaker 2>which which has which it's broader banded than two point

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<v Speaker 2>four gigahertz or five gigaherts, so it reaches out farther

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<v Speaker 2>and it penetrates, penetrates buildings and infrastructure a little bit better.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's uh, and it's it's since it is on

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<v Speaker 2>the ITSM band, or at least that part of it is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's open to the public. It's you don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>have a ham radio license or any other type of

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<v Speaker 2>license to use it, unlike Arden and broadband hamnet, which

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<v Speaker 2>I think those guys have their place. And I still

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<v Speaker 2>have an Ardent router back here behind me that's still

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<v Speaker 2>connected and I do some stuff with. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>mesh Tastic is great because it's open to everybody, and

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<v Speaker 2>the hardware is pretty inexpensive, and I really think using

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<v Speaker 2>the nine hundred megahertz ban is it was a total

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<v Speaker 2>win that for that for that system. So I'm curious

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<v Speaker 2>to see what you guys have to think about that

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<v Speaker 2>or if you have anything to add to that. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>tell us all about Meshtastic. Start wherever you want to,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll just kind of, you know, go back and forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I said, I shoot from the hip and let's

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<v Speaker 2>just dive into the conversation.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, art and is interesting just first off, because that's

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<v Speaker 4>that's built on open WRT, which is one of my

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<v Speaker 4>favorite open source projects. Those guys are amazing. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>one of the interesting differences I'm gonna let Jam jump

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<v Speaker 4>in here in just a second, but one of the

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<v Speaker 4>interesting differences is in in Meshtastic, especially in the nine

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<v Speaker 4>to fifteen band, we have a lot less bandwidth, right, so,

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<v Speaker 4>like we're doing text, text messages mostly, and there's been

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<v Speaker 4>some people playing with things other than just that, but

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<v Speaker 4>it's almost entirely text messages. Whereas when you're in two

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<v Speaker 4>point four, you know you're you're pushing more like what

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<v Speaker 4>Wi Fi can do, and so you know, you measure

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<v Speaker 4>that in the megabits, whereas we don't. We're not in

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<v Speaker 4>the megabits. We have much less bandwidth than that. But

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<v Speaker 4>the trade off, of course, like you said, so we

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<v Speaker 4>can go much much much further. Our record right now

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<v Speaker 4>is like somewhere around two hundred kilometers. I think somebody

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<v Speaker 4>got off a balloon. It's a long way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Okay, there's actually are Yeah, there's actually some firmware

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<v Speaker 2>for Arden that will work on nine hundred mega hurts

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<v Speaker 2>ubiquity and antipe link routers, and you can, you can hardline,

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<v Speaker 2>you can, you can mesh them together. You just connect

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<v Speaker 2>an Ethernet cable to a nine hundred megahertz radio to

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<v Speaker 2>a two point four gigahertz radio and then they kind

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<v Speaker 2>of see each other. They won't communicate VRF, but you

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<v Speaker 2>can you can connect them that way. But for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 2>the nine hundred megahertz side of Arden just really never

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<v Speaker 2>took off, or at least I don't hear much about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that was kind of like could have

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<v Speaker 2>been something that maybe would have worked better, but I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. I the there's a there's a group up

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<v Speaker 2>here in North Texas that does balloon launches and they're

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<v Speaker 2>like these big, like like fifteen twenty foot tall weather

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<v Speaker 2>they're not weather balloons, but they're kind of that that genre.

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<v Speaker 2>And they'll they'll put payload on the balloons, and they'll

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<v Speaker 2>put APRS digit peters, and they'll put DMR HAM radio repeaters,

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<v Speaker 2>and they'll put meshtastic on it up and it's gone

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<v Speaker 2>up to ninety ninety five one hundred thousand feet and

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<v Speaker 2>you're getting meshtastic singles from everywhere. It's really cool. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I would guess it's probably more than two under kilometers,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't know. I don't know what their record is,

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<v Speaker 2>so I have to check with them someday. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's definitely a cool thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Ye know.

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<v Speaker 7>The Ardent folks actually got a hold of me. This

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<v Speaker 7>was must have been about four years ago. They're talking

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<v Speaker 7>about doing a an art and meshtastic integration. They had

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<v Speaker 7>this nice little news written up and they're like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>so we're wondering if you could do a talk on this.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm like, I'm happy to do a talk on it.

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<v Speaker 7>So who's doing this integration? And they're like you are,

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<v Speaker 7>like what.

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<v Speaker 1>So here's my early rate right right right? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, it was.

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<v Speaker 7>It was a fun way of community building and trying

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<v Speaker 7>to loot people in to do stuff. I appreciated the effort,

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<v Speaker 7>but it was fun. But you mentioned the frequency, right,

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<v Speaker 7>So most of our radios actually use a worldwide transceiver radio.

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<v Speaker 7>The only real difference most of the time is just

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<v Speaker 7>a little loading capacitory. It's like twenty two Pico Ferris

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<v Speaker 7>versus you know, one ten. But they'll go down to

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<v Speaker 7>like one hundred and twenty megahertz up to like nine

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<v Speaker 7>to eighty most of the times off the exact same ship.

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<v Speaker 7>So if you are licensing, you have full rain to

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<v Speaker 7>go through and play with things quite a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pretty cool, Okay, okay, sweet good.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so Garth just whispered into my ear, which was

302
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.840
<v Speaker 4>a little weird, Garth. But we've got a link on

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00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.879
<v Speaker 4>the meshastic docks where the range test is, and so

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00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.279
<v Speaker 4>when we when we throw a range out there, that

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00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.840
<v Speaker 4>is it's confirmed right like, so we know exactly where

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00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:01.799
<v Speaker 4>one node was, exactly where the other one was, and

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<v Speaker 4>the current the current record is actually three hundred and

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00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.879
<v Speaker 4>thirty one kilometers and that's mountain top to mountaintop.

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00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Wow. So that's Earth station to Earth stations. It's not

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00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.600
<v Speaker 2>that it's not a balloon, not an airplane, because because

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<v Speaker 2>there's there's people who have had meshtastic devices and airplanes

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00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:24.679
<v Speaker 2>flying over certain areas Las Vegas in my case, but

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't say that. So, but I live right next

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00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:29.679
<v Speaker 2>to DFW Airport. So every now and then you can

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00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:31.360
<v Speaker 2>get on the chat and you can look and you're

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00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:35.480
<v Speaker 2>like twenty thirty, you know, thirty three thousand feet or

317
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:37.639
<v Speaker 2>seventeen thousand feet or whatever. You're like, wow, oh there

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00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:39.600
<v Speaker 2>he is. Oh yeah, now he's over there. He's movie

319
00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:43.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of fast. So yeah, that that happens.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 7>Our modulation ess actually based on Laura, but Laura. The

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00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.960
<v Speaker 7>company Semtech got it from Chirp spreads Spectrum, which was

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00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:58.879
<v Speaker 7>originally designed for interstellar satellite communication. Really really really long

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<v Speaker 7>long range stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>That's awesome.

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00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.240
<v Speaker 7>The French company just brought it down literally to Earth

327
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:09.680
<v Speaker 7>made it. You put it into the lope. I had to.

328
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.279
<v Speaker 7>I made it accessible, right, uh. And so the technology

329
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.079
<v Speaker 7>is designed to go really really far. And you asked,

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<v Speaker 7>are you am, well, I'm actually thinking about doing a

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<v Speaker 7>a meshtastic Earth Moon Earth bounce, right, That's why I

332
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:28.640
<v Speaker 7>got I think.

333
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.240
<v Speaker 2>That's a great idea.

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00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:37.119
<v Speaker 7>Out and go, hey everyone, that's chat like that's the moon.

335
00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

336
00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:43.640
<v Speaker 7>So anyone listening has access to really nice power applifiers

337
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:48.240
<v Speaker 7>and really nice low noise applifiers to talk to because

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00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.279
<v Speaker 7>we want to make this happen.

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00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.240
<v Speaker 2>That's that's fun. Yeah, we we can. We can do that.

340
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:55.559
<v Speaker 2>I can get I can get with you on that.

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00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.079
<v Speaker 2>We can do that. It would be fun. That'd be great.

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00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:01.279
<v Speaker 7>So actual bi direction, not just you know, one way,

343
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:02.359
<v Speaker 7>but right.

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00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.799
<v Speaker 2>Actually communicate right off off the moon. Moon bounced nine

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00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:10.400
<v Speaker 2>hundred signal off the moon. I mean, what what would

346
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you do it on nine hundred? What what band would

347
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:12.440
<v Speaker 2>you do it on?

348
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:17.079
<v Speaker 7>Pribbly switch over to two point four. Just because the

349
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.720
<v Speaker 7>equipment is cheaper, the antennas are smaller. It's just it's

350
00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:26.240
<v Speaker 7>an easier band to work with, right, Just it's more

351
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.279
<v Speaker 7>consumer frient and if the plan is going to be

352
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.119
<v Speaker 7>this is a community effort. Nine hundred heard, equipment is

353
00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:36.279
<v Speaker 7>actually big. It's it's to be cobbled together. And so

354
00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:38.920
<v Speaker 7>in the two point fours, it's off the shelf.

355
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:42.279
<v Speaker 3>Right, what what whatage can you do with two point four?

356
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.640
<v Speaker 7>Then if you're licensed, you got it all. You got

357
00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:49.799
<v Speaker 7>the whole one point five k all right, just you know,

358
00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:52.759
<v Speaker 7>keep it really narrow, don't pasthma too much, don't mess

359
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:53.000
<v Speaker 7>it up.

360
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.119
<v Speaker 3>I gotta review that because of the two point four,

361
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.640
<v Speaker 3>they might be a little it.

362
00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Might be a little bit less, I don't know what,

363
00:18:58.440 --> 00:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>because of what.

364
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.119
<v Speaker 3>The bleed over to the the spectrums. Because we only

365
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.359
<v Speaker 3>have a sliver bandwidth on the two point four. It's

366
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.119
<v Speaker 3>not like we have a Ride of Rain.

367
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.200
<v Speaker 2>And the and the two point four giga heard samplifiers

368
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:09.759
<v Speaker 2>are going to be much more costly than a nine

369
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.519
<v Speaker 2>hundred Meggert samplifier. Yeah so yeah, so there's that. But

370
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.240
<v Speaker 2>but you know, people, I mean, you just need to

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00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.559
<v Speaker 2>find someone who already has one, and we can, you know,

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00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:18.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of go from there.

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00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.200
<v Speaker 3>We could ask side Boom to make one, ha ha.

374
00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Ask the CB, the CB guy to make a two

375
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.240
<v Speaker 2>point four gig heard samplifier that I'm sure that'll be

376
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.319
<v Speaker 2>very clean and no problems at all. I hope he's

377
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:33.680
<v Speaker 2>in the chat. I hope you heard me say that.

378
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Side Boom he'll pop up.

379
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.240
<v Speaker 3>Don says we have a full fifteen hundred watts okay,

380
00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:46.079
<v Speaker 3>especially on that band. Okay, I no doubt them.

381
00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:46.640
<v Speaker 2>That's good.

382
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.680
<v Speaker 4>I will say that the FCC has absolutely no sense

383
00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.799
<v Speaker 4>of humor about getting out of your band and messing

384
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.480
<v Speaker 4>with two dot four. You mentioned open WRT and the

385
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.160
<v Speaker 4>TP link. I was part of the group trying to

386
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.279
<v Speaker 4>save open w RT on tp link back when the

387
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:04.279
<v Speaker 4>FCC was going to hand down that rule that says

388
00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:06.920
<v Speaker 4>you must lock down your firm where you guys remember.

389
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.559
<v Speaker 2>That, yeah they yeah, that was that was not a good.

390
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:14.400
<v Speaker 4>Time for being an open WRT fan. Well, and that's

391
00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:18.559
<v Speaker 4>because somebody was messing around with two four radio waves

392
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.119
<v Speaker 4>they had they had a cheap TP link and they'd

393
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.000
<v Speaker 4>gone in and they tinkered with it in the software

394
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.920
<v Speaker 4>and so they were I forget whether they were broadcasting

395
00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.960
<v Speaker 4>too loud or just on slightly the wrong frequency, but

396
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.079
<v Speaker 4>it was messing with like some hospitals internal systems. Yeah,

397
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:33.559
<v Speaker 4>and so they got it, got a complaint in the

398
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.480
<v Speaker 4>FCC was like, we are not going to put up

399
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:35.759
<v Speaker 4>with this.

400
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:42.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Well I guess uh yeah, I

401
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.519
<v Speaker 2>mean FCC does care about some things, not not everything,

402
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:47.799
<v Speaker 2>but some things they do.

403
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:52.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I like this question right now, whiskey e Mike

404
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:58.599
<v Speaker 3>Keilo golf Ham Radio asking is sped trektor sped spectrum

405
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:03.319
<v Speaker 3>rules for ten applications to the two point four gigaherts?

406
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Is it acoable.

407
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:09.519
<v Speaker 2>Spread spectrum to two point four gigaherts?

408
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:12.799
<v Speaker 3>Spreads spread frum ten watts equable to the two point

409
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:18.160
<v Speaker 3>four gigaherts. So is there a what limit on spread spectrum?

410
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.319
<v Speaker 3>It sounds like there is, but is also to the

411
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.200
<v Speaker 3>point two point four I don't know.

412
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.599
<v Speaker 7>There is less of so there is frequency hopping spread spectrum,

413
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.480
<v Speaker 7>and then there is I forget which one we're you're using,

414
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:37.000
<v Speaker 7>there's the spread spectrum where you're not actually hopping frequencies.

415
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:40.119
<v Speaker 7>If you're hopping frequencies, you have more power than if

416
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:47.119
<v Speaker 7>you're not hopping. Metshastic does not hop mm hm yeah, okay,

417
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:47.559
<v Speaker 7>all right.

418
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.599
<v Speaker 2>So I do have an agenda here. So, like I said,

419
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:53.200
<v Speaker 2>I like to I like to just kind of see

420
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.200
<v Speaker 2>where the story was, but we're gonna spin it in

421
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.200
<v Speaker 2>a we're gonna kind of keep it on track here.

422
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.599
<v Speaker 2>So the uh, the information that that Robert sent me

423
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.240
<v Speaker 2>was or I guess Bob. He goes by Bob right

424
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.640
<v Speaker 2>either way. Uh, introduction to mess mesh Tastic. Brief origin

425
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:14.759
<v Speaker 2>story how it got started. One minute overview. So let's

426
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:16.160
<v Speaker 2>that's here. Who wants to? Who wants to?

427
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:18.160
<v Speaker 1>That's Jam.

428
00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:21.079
<v Speaker 2>That's okay, all right, Oh it's jam.

429
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:25.720
<v Speaker 7>Good goodness. So, uh mesh Tastic was started by our

430
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.160
<v Speaker 7>faithful Founder's name is Kevin. He's one of these this

431
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.880
<v Speaker 7>mythical ten X engineers where he looks the next day

432
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:36.519
<v Speaker 7>it's done, Oh my gosh, one of these these magic people.

433
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.839
<v Speaker 7>He worked at n Video, he worked at Google and

434
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:44.319
<v Speaker 7>he's now wonderfully retired, traveling whenever I messaged, we be

435
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.799
<v Speaker 7>chat every once in a while. He's just in another

436
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.480
<v Speaker 7>part of the world, right, he's just happily, happily retired.

437
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.039
<v Speaker 7>And look at this guy. He likes parasailing, he likes

438
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:58.599
<v Speaker 7>hiking when he goes par para lighting. Uh, he has

439
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.519
<v Speaker 7>this issue where sometimes you don't know where his friends are.

440
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.960
<v Speaker 7>They just you know, got off somewhere when he's going hiking. Right,

441
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:06.920
<v Speaker 7>you want to know where your friends are, you know

442
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.640
<v Speaker 7>where your kids are. And yeah, he started looking around

443
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 7>at technologies and he stumbled onto Laura, stumbled onto a

444
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.799
<v Speaker 7>couple dev kids by some of some of the manufacturers,

445
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.839
<v Speaker 7>Hell Tech lily Go and really just came up with this,

446
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.599
<v Speaker 7>this real simple prototype in just a couple of weeks

447
00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:33.599
<v Speaker 7>and put it out there, made it open. Socores got

448
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 7>a hold of that guy with a Swiss accent who

449
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 7>picked up wrote about it, and I think that's where

450
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:44.079
<v Speaker 7>a lot of the popularity really came around. That's where

451
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:48.079
<v Speaker 7>the community started getting built. And there it really did

452
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.400
<v Speaker 7>become a community all out effort. There's been use cases

453
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:57.839
<v Speaker 7>here that you just would not even believe. Pollution monitoring

454
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:04.160
<v Speaker 7>tribes in the Amazon rainforest, who has no cell phone reception,

455
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.759
<v Speaker 7>hoisting Android phones up in the trees, just being able

456
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.480
<v Speaker 7>to chat with each other. It's just all over the

457
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.480
<v Speaker 7>place and it's wild. It really is wild, just how

458
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:16.559
<v Speaker 7>much this is being used.

459
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, yeah, I couldn't agree more cool. Well, that's a

460
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that's a cool story. We have to try to contact

461
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Kevin and get him on one of these days. Would

462
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.680
<v Speaker 2>love to have him on. So. So the current state

463
00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.119
<v Speaker 2>of mesh mesh tastic a quick update on how it

464
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:37.119
<v Speaker 2>has evolved, and mentioned the community and development growth over time.

465
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.519
<v Speaker 2>So community, do you guys have a discord server?

466
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:42.359
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely you do.

467
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:46.160
<v Speaker 2>So there's a North Texas Mesh discord server and there's

468
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>a Austin Mesh discord so here in Texas. Obviously those

469
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.039
<v Speaker 2>are those. I'm a member of both of those, and

470
00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I shared this link in the chat, So you guys

471
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.200
<v Speaker 2>shout out in the chat if you're from one of

472
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.359
<v Speaker 2>those discord communities please. But but yeah, if you guys

473
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>have an overall mestastic discord, please feel free to pop

474
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:06.880
<v Speaker 2>that if you if it's open to the public, that is,

475
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.319
<v Speaker 2>feel free to pop that link in the chat and

476
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:10.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll share it in our chat over here, but tell

477
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.400
<v Speaker 2>us a little bit about the the community and the

478
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:13.960
<v Speaker 2>and how it's evolved.

479
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:15.960
<v Speaker 5>I could probably go with this.

480
00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:21.559
<v Speaker 6>So the founder of Kevin had had some spine issues

481
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 6>actually and had to step back as he was told

482
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:27.119
<v Speaker 6>by the doctors, no more, no more sitting and coding,

483
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.599
<v Speaker 6>and so I was I was actually looking for the issue.

484
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.039
<v Speaker 6>Number two was we need a iOS app, and I

485
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.680
<v Speaker 6>was looking for an opportunity to write an iOS app.

486
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.880
<v Speaker 6>And I had been chatting on the discourse which is

487
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.680
<v Speaker 6>now sort of paused and closed, and I had been

488
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:52.440
<v Speaker 6>working with Ben uh on just making solar nodes. I

489
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.839
<v Speaker 6>originally started doing Mestastic because I was out hiking near

490
00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.359
<v Speaker 6>my parents' place and disappeared for seven hours off of

491
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:03.240
<v Speaker 6>out of cell phone service, and my dad got kind

492
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:04.880
<v Speaker 6>of annoyed with me and said, hey, if you're going

493
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 6>to disappear for seven hours and need some way to communicate,

494
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:11.160
<v Speaker 6>And I went on all the express and found mestastic

495
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.279
<v Speaker 6>and some devices and ordered them, and so I sort

496
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 6>of started out there and then got tired of carrying

497
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:22.160
<v Speaker 6>around my iPhone and my burner Android phone in order

498
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.599
<v Speaker 6>to be able to use mestastic and started working on

499
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 6>the iOS app, and then Kevin was stepping back from

500
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:36.680
<v Speaker 6>the project, and so he recruited Ben to do the firmware.

501
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.880
<v Speaker 6>I was working on the iOS app. We have an

502
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:45.039
<v Speaker 6>Android developer in Brazil who he asked to start working

503
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.359
<v Speaker 6>at So Kevin truly was a tenx developer. He was

504
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.400
<v Speaker 6>running the Python cli, he wrote the Android app, he

505
00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:54.400
<v Speaker 6>wrote the firmware, He was simultaneously releasing them all and

506
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:58.640
<v Speaker 6>so at this point me and what was kind of

507
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.279
<v Speaker 6>six ' ten people, well took us probably a year

508
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.440
<v Speaker 6>to just kind of get back to the cadence that

509
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:08.000
<v Speaker 6>Kevin was doing on his own. And then we went

510
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:12.079
<v Speaker 6>through a really painful process of upgrading to one point

511
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:13.880
<v Speaker 6>three and then the two point zero.

512
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:14.880
<v Speaker 5>Version of mesh Tastic.

513
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.000
<v Speaker 6>We broke everything for a while, which was not a

514
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:20.559
<v Speaker 6>real great experience for a lot of the users, but

515
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:21.519
<v Speaker 6>they stuck with us.

516
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:23.880
<v Speaker 5>We kept adding features.

517
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:27.279
<v Speaker 6>Each of us added a you know, kind of took

518
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.759
<v Speaker 6>JM organize this thing, so he kind of set out

519
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:33.079
<v Speaker 6>the roadmap of what we were going to do on

520
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:35.759
<v Speaker 6>the one point three two point zero time frame. I

521
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.480
<v Speaker 6>was working on the iOS app. Ben was adding some

522
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.519
<v Speaker 6>telemetry firmware features. So we have so much traffic. Now

523
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.039
<v Speaker 6>it seems a little weird, but at the time a

524
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.079
<v Speaker 6>lot of people were setting up very temporary meshtastic networks,

525
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.680
<v Speaker 6>so they were airsofting or hiking or parrot gliding, and

526
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.960
<v Speaker 6>those radios were only up for the time frame that

527
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.960
<v Speaker 6>that activity was taking place. And so Ben and I

528
00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:59.799
<v Speaker 6>grabbed the telemetry part and said, hey, it'd be great

529
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:04.200
<v Speaker 6>if we could add some weather station features and give

530
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.599
<v Speaker 6>people a reason to keep these devices up when they're

531
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.559
<v Speaker 6>not using them as part of a network, and then

532
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.160
<v Speaker 6>we worked on that. You can see there's like there's

533
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 6>a Lark weather station here from from df robot that

534
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.160
<v Speaker 6>you can plug into the Ice squared CEA on Mettastic

535
00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:24.880
<v Speaker 6>now and it has annometer, which is a which has

536
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:27.799
<v Speaker 6>been a hard hard device to find on Ice squared C.

537
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:31.480
<v Speaker 6>We decided to go with Ice squared C because they're

538
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.200
<v Speaker 6>automatically detected and made the user experience of hooking up

539
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 6>a censor a lot easier. And then we've just really

540
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.359
<v Speaker 6>had phenomenal growth from from there to now.

541
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.480
<v Speaker 5>So when we first started, I'd say, we can you know,

542
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:46.519
<v Speaker 5>these are devboards.

543
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 6>It's a little hard to track who's using what We

544
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:52.480
<v Speaker 6>were initially only available on Android. All the configuration was

545
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:55.680
<v Speaker 6>done with the CLI. I do a lot of UX

546
00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.680
<v Speaker 6>work at my job and was interested in in doing

547
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:02.200
<v Speaker 6>the i US happened then kind of moving away from

548
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.079
<v Speaker 6>being a CLI first application and kind of grabbing all

549
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.599
<v Speaker 6>the all the regular users out there. HAM Radio has

550
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.359
<v Speaker 6>been really great for us, but it's more of a

551
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.200
<v Speaker 6>hub and spoke thing with mettastic as you called that earlier.

552
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:14.839
<v Speaker 7>UH.

553
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 5>The on the need the lack of a need.

554
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.960
<v Speaker 6>For a license is really almost what a lot of

555
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.559
<v Speaker 6>ham's like because they can include their friends and family

556
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:25.839
<v Speaker 6>that that aren't going to get a license or think

557
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:28.799
<v Speaker 6>this shack is kind of a lot the big antennas,

558
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.200
<v Speaker 6>and this gives this gives them a way to get

559
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.400
<v Speaker 6>radios in the hands of of all their regular friends

560
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.359
<v Speaker 6>in family. So that's kind of in a lot of

561
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.319
<v Speaker 6>cases the the HAM is kind of the central person

562
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:44.319
<v Speaker 6>that helps build out the network and then all of

563
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:48.039
<v Speaker 6>their regular friends in family become the uh the other

564
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:53.599
<v Speaker 6>users on the network. The growth wise one of the features.

565
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:57.400
<v Speaker 6>After after we'd finished the telemetry, Ben and I worked

566
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.960
<v Speaker 6>to create what is called the m q TT proxy.

567
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:06.960
<v Speaker 6>So instead of using the Internet to communicate between two nodes,

568
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.839
<v Speaker 6>over your Wi Fi network at home.

569
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 5>You could use your phone to kind of act as.

570
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.119
<v Speaker 6>That Wi Fi cellular connection in between to bridge networks

571
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.160
<v Speaker 6>where there aren't necessarily mesh Tastic nodes.

572
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:18.480
<v Speaker 5>In the middle.

573
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.880
<v Speaker 6>And then since we've created that, we've kind of had

574
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 6>to spend a bunch of time on you know, throttling

575
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:28.680
<v Speaker 6>the traffic and figuring out how to keep things running.

576
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:31.799
<v Speaker 6>As it now, so there's fifty million packets a week

577
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:38.119
<v Speaker 6>that are going over this MQTT server that meshtastic ruds.

578
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.160
<v Speaker 5>So the growth has been really amazing. It's been tricky.

579
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.240
<v Speaker 6>I know, not everybody has loved every restriction we've had

580
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:46.119
<v Speaker 6>to put in place along the way in order to

581
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.359
<v Speaker 6>sort of keep it running. But also, you know, a

582
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.559
<v Speaker 6>year and a half ago, it didn't work at all

583
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.200
<v Speaker 6>because it was so clogged up, and then it would

584
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:57.240
<v Speaker 6>flood the Laura mesh because Laura is obviously low bandwidth,

585
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.599
<v Speaker 6>and the Internet can handle a ton of bandwidth. So

586
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:02.279
<v Speaker 6>we had to figure out how to do that bridge

587
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:05.279
<v Speaker 6>without wrecking the best part of metschastic, which is the

588
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:10.359
<v Speaker 6>long range, the Laura part, and covering those long distances.

589
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:13.599
<v Speaker 6>The official record that we have is three hundred and

590
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:17.440
<v Speaker 6>thirty three kilometers, I do believe. Recently in Poland they

591
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:20.119
<v Speaker 6>used a balloon and went close to five hundred.

592
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

593
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:24.839
<v Speaker 6>So and you know, it seems like seems like there's

594
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.279
<v Speaker 6>some desire for some Texas pride to try and try

595
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:30.160
<v Speaker 6>and beat that kind of record with the balloon, I

596
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:30.880
<v Speaker 6>would imagine.

597
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>So yep, we can do it. We can do it.

598
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>So you you touched on the subject I wanted to

599
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:38.640
<v Speaker 2>ask about tonight. So I'm just going to go ahead

600
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:42.079
<v Speaker 2>and dive into that right now. MQTT. So, we have

601
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:47.240
<v Speaker 2>a we have a Ham radio show in Dayton, Ohio

602
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>every year in May. It's the largest Ham radio show

603
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:55.400
<v Speaker 2>in the world. And there's about thirty thirty to thirty

604
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.960
<v Speaker 2>three thousand people there every every year from for like

605
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.200
<v Speaker 2>a four day weekend from like Thursday at this Sunday.

606
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:06.000
<v Speaker 2>So a group of us took Meshtastic to that show

607
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:09.039
<v Speaker 2>last year and I had m QT. I have a

608
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Meshtastic node running in my truck twenty four to seven,

609
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.440
<v Speaker 2>and I had m QTT. I also have a Wi

610
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Fi and Internet in my truck twenty four to seven,

611
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:21.640
<v Speaker 2>and I had m QTT running. And and I think

612
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.519
<v Speaker 2>I think two or three other people had it running. Also,

613
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it was totally my fault, but we

614
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.000
<v Speaker 2>we totally clogged that network up. So my question is

615
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.240
<v Speaker 2>when is m QTT. When's the right time to use it?

616
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.640
<v Speaker 2>And if you are using it, should you be on

617
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:43.640
<v Speaker 2>another setting besides the long fast? Should you should you

618
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 2>go into the short fast or the whatever the other?

619
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:47.839
<v Speaker 2>There's like five or six settings in there that are

620
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:49.759
<v Speaker 2>long fast. I was gonna I was gonna get you

621
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.039
<v Speaker 2>guys do a brief overview of what all the long

622
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.920
<v Speaker 2>fast and short fast and all those settings mean. But

623
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.839
<v Speaker 2>as far as m QTT goes, what's the best time

624
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:02.119
<v Speaker 2>to use it efficiently? Efficiency wise? I mean, we don't

625
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:05.200
<v Speaker 2>want to the purpose of mesh Tastic and ham radio

626
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:07.359
<v Speaker 2>both is to communicate, and if we clog up the

627
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.680
<v Speaker 2>network or bog it down with too many packets and

628
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.359
<v Speaker 2>then you're failing to communicate. So we don't want to

629
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.240
<v Speaker 2>do that. So what's a good situation to use that in?

630
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:18.759
<v Speaker 4>So let me start off by saying that we noticed that,

631
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:22.079
<v Speaker 4>we saw that that was a problem, and actually what

632
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:23.319
<v Speaker 4>we ended up doing is.

633
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:25.839
<v Speaker 2>We're Hams, so we break stuff. That's what we do best.

634
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.079
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, okay, So we saw that was a problem.

635
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.279
<v Speaker 4>So now if you use the default setting on our

636
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:36.039
<v Speaker 4>public m QTT, we actually zero hop all of the packets,

637
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.920
<v Speaker 4>which means that your device doesn't rebroadcast any of those

638
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.480
<v Speaker 4>so you can't bring the local mesh down by accidentally

639
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:48.240
<v Speaker 4>or intentionally connecting to m QTT. So on one hand,

640
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:51.200
<v Speaker 4>that's really good. On the other hand, it kind of

641
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:54.480
<v Speaker 4>like shoots some of the benefit people were getting out

642
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:57.680
<v Speaker 4>of that. But at the same time, there's just so

643
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.200
<v Speaker 4>much traffic on the MQTT server. It's just it's just

644
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.480
<v Speaker 4>impractically it came to the point to where as, as

645
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 4>you found out, it just doesn't work anymore. Right, So

646
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:09.079
<v Speaker 4>we've zero opted, But that's only if you're using the

647
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.280
<v Speaker 4>default channel, right. So where MQTT really makes sense is

648
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.960
<v Speaker 4>kind of for more bespoke situations. So either I've got

649
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.119
<v Speaker 4>my own channel with my own password, and i want

650
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:23.360
<v Speaker 4>it to be available in a couple of different locations,

651
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:25.559
<v Speaker 4>so I'm going to wrap that through the MQTT server,

652
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 4>or if i want to set my own MQTT server up,

653
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:32.719
<v Speaker 4>because you can put it on a Raspberry Pie or whatever,

654
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:35.079
<v Speaker 4>you know, it's the Mosquito software. You can run it

655
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.519
<v Speaker 4>yourself and then you know, kind of the sky is

656
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.000
<v Speaker 4>the limit with what you want to do. And we

657
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 4>kind of have the the thought there that if someone

658
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:47.440
<v Speaker 4>is sophisticated enough to set up their own MQTT server,

659
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.960
<v Speaker 4>then ideally they're going to be sophisticated enough to not

660
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.360
<v Speaker 4>shoot themselves in the foot with it. Now, that's not

661
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.639
<v Speaker 4>necessarily a safe assumption, but that's kind of where we've landed.

662
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.559
<v Speaker 3>Well, if you know enough to use the tools, then

663
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:04.119
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to give you all the bottom so you

664
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:07.239
<v Speaker 3>could do whatever you want. And if you shoot yourself

665
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:09.760
<v Speaker 3>in the foot, that will happen because I gave you

666
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.440
<v Speaker 3>this powerful tool set. Because if I give you powerful tools,

667
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.840
<v Speaker 3>you're going to do powerful and awesome things with it.

668
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:18.599
<v Speaker 3>I give you a limited sandbox, then I'm limiting your

669
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:19.719
<v Speaker 3>ability to do stuff.

670
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so we've seen a couple of just to dive

671
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:24.360
<v Speaker 4>into that a little bit more, we've seen a couple

672
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.719
<v Speaker 4>of times in different situations in meshtastic where people were

673
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.480
<v Speaker 4>shooting themselves in the foot and not realizing it.

674
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:32.199
<v Speaker 7>Right.

675
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:33.679
<v Speaker 4>So, one of the other things that was happening with

676
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:37.360
<v Speaker 4>m QTT is that people were often sending like their

677
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 4>raw position over m QTT and therefore broadcasting it on

678
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.079
<v Speaker 4>the internet, and it was it was for a while

679
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.239
<v Speaker 4>there it was really really easy to accidentally do that.

680
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.599
<v Speaker 4>And the way that kind of came to a head

681
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.360
<v Speaker 4>is we have somebody in the in the community that said, well,

682
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.239
<v Speaker 4>I've got all this position data, let me just put

683
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.760
<v Speaker 4>it online in a map. And suddenly, you know, that

684
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.000
<v Speaker 4>became popular and people went, wait a second, why am

685
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:02.639
<v Speaker 4>I on the map? Why is my house on the map?

686
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Because you broadcasted it there. Yeah yeahh but I mean

687
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:10.239
<v Speaker 2>did it realize it? Yeah? Yeah, but they yeah, totally. Okay.

688
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.280
<v Speaker 4>So the point, the point we've come to is, yes,

689
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.280
<v Speaker 4>there will always be some footguns, but what we're going

690
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:18.760
<v Speaker 4>to try to do is make it impossible to use

691
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.199
<v Speaker 4>one of those footguns and not like not realize it,

692
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.280
<v Speaker 4>like totally do it by accidents, kind of automatically fail

693
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.280
<v Speaker 4>into a foot gun. And so that's where some of

694
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:31.559
<v Speaker 4>these changes like shutting down zero hopping the public the

695
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:34.280
<v Speaker 4>default channel on MQTT comes from, because it was so

696
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:36.880
<v Speaker 4>it was so easy to blunder into that without realizing.

697
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.760
<v Speaker 3>It was wasn't There also.

698
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:44.559
<v Speaker 7>Often to how we actually grew from our origins originally

699
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.920
<v Speaker 7>Fantastic was designed for networks of you know, twelve twenty

700
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.800
<v Speaker 7>maybe thirty devices at most, because that's all we could

701
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:56.199
<v Speaker 7>fit onto the actual available bandwidth. But we've grown from

702
00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:00.679
<v Speaker 7>there to just recently be at Defcon two thousand devices

703
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.400
<v Speaker 7>on a single network. And a lot of this growth

704
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:08.320
<v Speaker 7>on you know, optimization, so streamlining the protocol, transmitting less often,

705
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.679
<v Speaker 7>and leave yourself on these default networks and you turn

706
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:17.320
<v Speaker 7>on some of the tools that we have developed for

707
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 7>private networks. That's where these stilability comes in because you know,

708
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.960
<v Speaker 7>having everyone on the same default network that wasn't the

709
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.679
<v Speaker 7>original design. It was originally designed for you, your little

710
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:32.360
<v Speaker 7>hiking group, right right. What happened, and this is awesome,

711
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.440
<v Speaker 7>is we now have these large communities that have formed

712
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:41.079
<v Speaker 7>and they're making friends, they're chatting with each other on it.

713
00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:43.960
<v Speaker 7>Just last night, I was waiting at the vet just

714
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 7>you know, eavesdropping, Hey, how are you doing? I haven't

715
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.719
<v Speaker 7>spoken in a while. Like, it's the hyper community that

716
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:54.360
<v Speaker 7>we want to see, right, And the thing that Jonathan

717
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 7>and Garth is talking about is the curating of that

718
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:02.719
<v Speaker 7>public network to make this and all this youth fit

719
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.199
<v Speaker 7>on the available bandwidth that we have. Right and it's

720
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:07.639
<v Speaker 7>really not hard, not easy to do.

721
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:11.679
<v Speaker 2>I will give a shout out real quick. You're talking

722
00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 2>about talking to people saying hey, how you doing. It's

723
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.039
<v Speaker 2>been a while so I haven't seen much of that

724
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:20.239
<v Speaker 2>in my area. I'm hoping that changes soon. But my

725
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:25.199
<v Speaker 2>wife and I took a vacation last July, I think

726
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:27.679
<v Speaker 2>June end of June, end of June, end of July,

727
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 2>and we flew to Anchorage, Alaska, and we spent a

728
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:33.239
<v Speaker 2>couple of days. Then we got on an Alaskan cruise.

729
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Walking down the downtown streets of Anchorage, Alaska, I had

730
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:40.800
<v Speaker 2>my mesh Tastic note with me and I was chatting

731
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.679
<v Speaker 2>with two or three people and there was just it

732
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.280
<v Speaker 2>was just like, hey, what's going I was like, Hey,

733
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.079
<v Speaker 2>we're in Anchorage. And someone came back and said, hey,

734
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 2>welcome to Anchorage. Where are you from? And I chatted

735
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.719
<v Speaker 2>with him for a few minutes, and I'm like, this

736
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.440
<v Speaker 2>is the type of thing that I would like to

737
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.000
<v Speaker 2>see happen everywhere I go, and I have not. I

738
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:57.559
<v Speaker 2>have not seen it everywhere. I haven't tried it everywhere either,

739
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>but I've tried it at home. But in Anchorage, Alasha,

740
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 2>shout out to anybody in Anchorage. If anyone is in

741
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:06.599
<v Speaker 2>the chat in from Anchorage, Alaska, let me know. But

742
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:10.800
<v Speaker 2>they have a great community out there, very just welcoming.

743
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:13.079
<v Speaker 2>And I mean, you know, all we did was chat

744
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:15.480
<v Speaker 2>for like five minutes. What any big deal. But I

745
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:18.159
<v Speaker 2>thought that you said that about chatting when you're at

746
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 2>the VET and whatnot. I'm like, that's the kind of

747
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:21.760
<v Speaker 2>thing that you want to see more of, or at

748
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:23.920
<v Speaker 2>least I do. So that's that's a that's a good deal.

749
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:29.280
<v Speaker 6>The ham mentioned thing really was, like I know, Josh

750
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:33.000
<v Speaker 6>from HRCC also sort of feels like he crashed the network.

751
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.440
<v Speaker 6>The reality was is our network was too fragile at

752
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.000
<v Speaker 6>the time, and you guys put three hundred people in

753
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.559
<v Speaker 6>a metal building and and taught us some lessons that

754
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:41.480
<v Speaker 6>we needed to learn.

755
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.039
<v Speaker 2>We're hands this is what we do. So yeah, yeah, no,

756
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:46.239
<v Speaker 2>So that was fantastic.

757
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:50.719
<v Speaker 6>The spectacular success of def cod was entirely related to

758
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.280
<v Speaker 6>Josh's video is titled did Mettastic Die at him?

759
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Mentioned Yeah, yes, yes, yes it did.

760
00:39:57.800 --> 00:39:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I saw that.

761
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.239
<v Speaker 6>And so Mia, Jonathan and Ben worked and Ben can

762
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:05.920
<v Speaker 6>probably speak some to how they built some of the

763
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:10.039
<v Speaker 6>fantastic firmware updates to that. But that is kind of

764
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.639
<v Speaker 6>the point that we uh so, Ben and I are

765
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.199
<v Speaker 6>both dot net developers in our day job, and we

766
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.559
<v Speaker 6>built a tool to sit in front of the MQTT

767
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.280
<v Speaker 6>server and do this zero hopping blocking of spam. It

768
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.079
<v Speaker 6>reduces the number of ports that are sent over the

769
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:30.760
<v Speaker 6>MQTT to focus on discovery and messaging and positions instead

770
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:34.559
<v Speaker 6>of weather stations and detection sensors and some of these

771
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:37.079
<v Speaker 6>other features that are great, but they're not They're not

772
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.519
<v Speaker 6>something that should be part of a conference. And so

773
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:43.800
<v Speaker 6>if it was not for hamvention and and kind of

774
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.800
<v Speaker 6>the data that we gathered from that, there's no way

775
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:48.639
<v Speaker 6>we would have had the success that we had at

776
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.920
<v Speaker 6>Defcon and to have what seems to be probably about

777
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.679
<v Speaker 6>three thousand so ten percent of the note ten percent

778
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.840
<v Speaker 6>of the people at Defcon had a fantastic node.

779
00:40:57.639 --> 00:40:59.079
<v Speaker 5>Which was just unbelievable.

780
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:03.880
<v Speaker 6>And Jonathan could speak to some of the technical work

781
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:05.960
<v Speaker 6>that was done to facilitate.

782
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.239
<v Speaker 3>That, but I'm kind of interested what rut twigs did

783
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:09.559
<v Speaker 3>you do to help well.

784
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:12.159
<v Speaker 2>So so well, great, hold on one second, gray Man

785
00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Poda's in the chat saying exactly what I'm thinking. He

786
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:17.239
<v Speaker 2>says so I'm hearing hold my beer for Daton twenty

787
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:21.360
<v Speaker 2>twenty five because yeah, okay, in May, in May of

788
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 2>this of next year, buddy, it's going to be on

789
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:23.719
<v Speaker 2>all right.

790
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.960
<v Speaker 4>So let me tell you here's what we did. We

791
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.079
<v Speaker 4>actually made a custom firmware release for def Coon, and

792
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:31.159
<v Speaker 4>then we actually did it again for Burning Man. Had

793
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.199
<v Speaker 4>a better experience at def Con than we did burning Man,

794
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:34.920
<v Speaker 4>but we were late to the game on burning Man.

795
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:36.239
<v Speaker 4>So here's what we need to do. We need to

796
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.119
<v Speaker 4>make sure and get this out sooner rather than later

797
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:41.800
<v Speaker 4>so that you have enough people coming. So what we

798
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:44.280
<v Speaker 4>did with this custom firmware release is we put it

799
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:46.719
<v Speaker 4>on the I think the short fast, which is, you know,

800
00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:50.360
<v Speaker 4>the the quickest of all of our presets. It's the

801
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:52.639
<v Speaker 4>one that's quickest has it spends the least amount of

802
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.159
<v Speaker 4>time on air for a you know, given amount of bites.

803
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:57.960
<v Speaker 4>So we turned we turned that on. We added some

804
00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.760
<v Speaker 4>code in there so like, if something we need to

805
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 4>get need to get into hops still hops is its

806
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.519
<v Speaker 4>whole thing. But like so if somebody says I'm going

807
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:07.280
<v Speaker 4>to put my node on seven hops so that everybody

808
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.280
<v Speaker 4>could hear it, we would detect that and we would

809
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 4>say no, no, no, you use three hops, and we're going

810
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:14.320
<v Speaker 4>to treat this packet as if you were using three hops.

811
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.039
<v Speaker 4>And then some of the stuff that we do for

812
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:20.039
<v Speaker 4>the m QTT server where we block some of that

813
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:23.320
<v Speaker 4>telemetry and stuff, we did that in the firmware for this,

814
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:26.840
<v Speaker 4>just for this custom firmware for these events. And so

815
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.039
<v Speaker 4>what that does is it takes you know, all of

816
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:31.000
<v Speaker 4>the what would be the kind of background noise that

817
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:34.239
<v Speaker 4>nobody cares about at an event, right Like, I don't

818
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:36.679
<v Speaker 4>care what kind of battery life you're getting. I don't

819
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:40.159
<v Speaker 4>care what percent charge your battery is of these other

820
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.119
<v Speaker 4>two thousand notes, so we sh don't send that. Like

821
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:43.519
<v Speaker 4>there's a whole bunch of those things that we just

822
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.000
<v Speaker 4>don't send. Changed some we changed some defaults to make

823
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 4>it better, and boy that that made a huge difference.

824
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, so, how how difficult or complicated is it to

825
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.320
<v Speaker 2>make a custom firmware for an event like that?

826
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:58.000
<v Speaker 4>It's not particularly Now that we've got the work done,

827
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:00.960
<v Speaker 4>we just go to the we call it death Fantastic.

828
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:03.519
<v Speaker 4>We just go to that firmware risk repository. I think

829
00:43:03.559 --> 00:43:05.960
<v Speaker 4>that one's I think that one's publicly available.

830
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.800
<v Speaker 2>So I need to bring you guys. I need to

831
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:11.480
<v Speaker 2>bring you guys back onto the channel in January because

832
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.079
<v Speaker 2>our second largest show of the year is in the

833
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:17.440
<v Speaker 2>middle of February in Orlando and there'll be about probably

834
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:20.400
<v Speaker 2>eight to ten to twelve thousand people there. So it's

835
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:23.440
<v Speaker 2>about one third the size of date of Hamvention. But

836
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:26.760
<v Speaker 2>it's a it's a fantastic show. And if we can

837
00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:29.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like test bed that it's a test bed

838
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:31.639
<v Speaker 2>as far as HAM Radio goes, then we can see,

839
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:34.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe how well this custom firmware works for

840
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.840
<v Speaker 2>for HAM Mention, which is in May, you know, four

841
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:38.360
<v Speaker 2>months later.

842
00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:42.639
<v Speaker 3>So you said you already read this with three thousand

843
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:43.679
<v Speaker 3>people over at deaf.

844
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:46.440
<v Speaker 4>Cod about this about how many notes we think we're

845
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:48.719
<v Speaker 4>there yet three thousand.

846
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:53.000
<v Speaker 6>Hauntsville survived as well, So Huntsville was after Dayton.

847
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Huntsville is not nearly the size of Dayton though,

848
00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:59.760
<v Speaker 2>So Huntsville is probably like six thousand, five six thousand,

849
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Pele Orlando's around ten, and then Dayton's like thirty. Now,

850
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.079
<v Speaker 2>not all those people have meshtastic nodes obviously. Okay, there's

851
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 2>probably more than three thousand people at def Con. That's

852
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:11.960
<v Speaker 2>just how many nods you had, right, right, So yeah,

853
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.960
<v Speaker 2>so how many people would be there with nodes? I mean,

854
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:16.559
<v Speaker 2>who knows. I'll I'll have three nodes myself because I'll

855
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:19.039
<v Speaker 2>have one in my truck that don't worry about my camera,

856
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.039
<v Speaker 2>I'll fix it, and it's I'm still on battery power

857
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:23.679
<v Speaker 2>because I haven't found my power supply. I'll have one

858
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:25.639
<v Speaker 2>in my truck. I'll have one in my pocket, and

859
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:29.039
<v Speaker 2>I'll probably have a backup one that's not running right now,

860
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:31.159
<v Speaker 2>but you know it'll it'll be a backup node for

861
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:34.159
<v Speaker 2>to turn on my pocket whatnot. So yeah, I'm gonna

862
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:36.239
<v Speaker 2>change my battery out. But you guys go ahead going

863
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:37.360
<v Speaker 2>to the next thing, Frank.

864
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:41.880
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, And we love these events. We originally designed for

865
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:44.679
<v Speaker 7>just a couple dozen, but every single time were we

866
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:47.679
<v Speaker 7>come up to another event that just pushes us even

867
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:49.599
<v Speaker 7>just a little bit further. We look at it like

868
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.400
<v Speaker 7>the NASCAR or the Formula one. Right, what else can

869
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.119
<v Speaker 7>we do to push this a little bit further. Let's

870
00:44:56.199 --> 00:45:01.079
<v Speaker 7>put some of our latest technologies, the latest you know,

871
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:04.719
<v Speaker 7>quality of service measures. Let's try it out. Because what

872
00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:08.719
<v Speaker 7>we learn from these events we then bring back into

873
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:11.320
<v Speaker 7>the general use. Right, So if you get more of this,

874
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:15.239
<v Speaker 7>we learn, we understand what's going on, and we make

875
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:18.760
<v Speaker 7>everyone else better from these little trials. So it may

876
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.719
<v Speaker 7>or may not work, we don't know, but whatever happens.

877
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.599
<v Speaker 2>We learn, well we're happy to help, you know, test

878
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.719
<v Speaker 2>it and whatnot. Because yeah, yeah, I mean, ham radio

879
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:29.920
<v Speaker 2>is all about experimentation. You guys probably already know that,

880
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.400
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I mean we're we're that's this is right

881
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.599
<v Speaker 2>up our alley.

882
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:36.760
<v Speaker 3>So I see a question here, as popping up a

883
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 3>couple of times. Is there any time there's encryption on

884
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.599
<v Speaker 3>these no's for your private channel and especially if you

885
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:48.639
<v Speaker 3>start moving these over to the handbands? How's that going

886
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:52.880
<v Speaker 3>to affect things? Because amateur radio operators can't encrypt or

887
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:55.760
<v Speaker 3>ofuscate the meaning of the message.

888
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:56.880
<v Speaker 1>You get to send in the clear.

889
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:02.360
<v Speaker 7>Take this one here, So we actually have a mode

890
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.639
<v Speaker 7>called is licensed, and if you are a licensed operator,

891
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:11.079
<v Speaker 7>your packets will be the encryption of your packets will

892
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:15.079
<v Speaker 7>be disabled on the network you are on. And just

893
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.639
<v Speaker 7>you know, internally we were talking about this just about

894
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.480
<v Speaker 7>two weeks ago, that it's possible that even though you

895
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:26.639
<v Speaker 7>are licensed, because of the routing protocol, you might be

896
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:31.199
<v Speaker 7>forwarding encrypted packets and we don't know if that would

897
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:34.280
<v Speaker 7>or would not violate FCC, right, because you're not actually

898
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.519
<v Speaker 7>the originator, right, you don't know if it's encrypted. You

899
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.280
<v Speaker 7>don't know if it's not encrypted. You're just boarding.

900
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:42.280
<v Speaker 3>That was the second one. I saved a couple of questions.

901
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.159
<v Speaker 2>I just turned that off. Even though I'm licensed, I

902
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:47.880
<v Speaker 2>turn it off because I'm also a citizen and ism

903
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:51.519
<v Speaker 2>band is a citizens band for lack of a better term.

904
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:53.840
<v Speaker 2>So I just turned that off. I had that on

905
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:55.639
<v Speaker 2>it first, and I just like, you know what, it's

906
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:59.079
<v Speaker 2>disables encryption, it does this other thing. I just turned

907
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:01.199
<v Speaker 2>that off. I don't even don't even put that but.

908
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.199
<v Speaker 7>If you sorry. The other thing we're thinking about is

909
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:09.599
<v Speaker 7>putting being licensed a property of the actual network. You're

910
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:11.400
<v Speaker 7>on itself, right, so.

911
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:12.599
<v Speaker 3>The network to go down that.

912
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:18.320
<v Speaker 7>Yes, everyone on here, whether you're licensed or not, turn

913
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:21.760
<v Speaker 7>off your encryption, just just flat out that way. If

914
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.119
<v Speaker 7>you're on, there is no risk of you violating those rules.

915
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:31.119
<v Speaker 7>Right now. It's up to you to still not have

916
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 7>power amplifiers that go above your your license Santa stay

917
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.480
<v Speaker 7>with in your your band plan. Still up to you.

918
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:41.639
<v Speaker 3>But if you alter the equipment, that's on you but

919
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:44.360
<v Speaker 3>but if you make a properties of the bands, like oh,

920
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:48.079
<v Speaker 3>I'm in the commercial bands where we can do encryption.

921
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:51.480
<v Speaker 3>But if you enable the advice and the options to say, okay,

922
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:54.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm on the handbands now, you just disable it completely

923
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:56.800
<v Speaker 3>because it's operating on a different frame.

924
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, the nine hundred megahertz band is an ISM band,

925
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:01.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's also a hand band, but we're secondary on

926
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:02.840
<v Speaker 2>that band, so it's a shared band for us. So

927
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:04.679
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of stuff that goes on on nonmega

928
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:09.079
<v Speaker 2>herts that we can't technically do with our license in FLICTED.

929
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:14.239
<v Speaker 2>But but but it's since we're a citizen, we can

930
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:17.360
<v Speaker 2>use other things to do. So it's kind of like

931
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.880
<v Speaker 2>one of those things where it's it's like, I don't know,

932
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:22.199
<v Speaker 2>it's like you can you can do everything and claim

933
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.440
<v Speaker 2>oh I was using it for this thing, not this thing.

934
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:27.559
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, what do you mean. I was on

935
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.039
<v Speaker 3>the hand bands, I was up earning on the commercial

936
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.000
<v Speaker 3>bands because it was a commercial device.

937
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:34.559
<v Speaker 2>Nine megicans it's almost the same thing.

938
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:36.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

939
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:38.639
<v Speaker 2>I do. I do want to keep us moving. This

940
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 2>is great. You guys are doing a great job. So, uh,

941
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:46.440
<v Speaker 2>the the one on the document that Robert sent this

942
00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:48.280
<v Speaker 2>is this is this is when I wanted to ask

943
00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:51.679
<v Speaker 2>anyway an explanation of hops. We you guys talked about

944
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:55.000
<v Speaker 2>zero hop earlier and uh and seven, I'm gonna turn

945
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.519
<v Speaker 2>mine on seven hops and know you're gonna do three hops,

946
00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:00.000
<v Speaker 2>So explain. I know what this is, but this is

947
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 2>for the audience. Explain what a hop is?

948
00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:04.199
<v Speaker 3>It goes in beer.

949
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:10.519
<v Speaker 2>Yes, correct, because I'm like, I'm like, I hope you're

950
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:13.000
<v Speaker 2>a stout guy and not an IPA guy. Otherwise get

951
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.880
<v Speaker 2>off on my channel. So yeah, yes, yes, an explanation

952
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.960
<v Speaker 2>of packet hops. How's that is that?

953
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:19.280
<v Speaker 3>Better?

954
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Packet hops?

955
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:22.639
<v Speaker 4>I mean it's it's basically just a number that is

956
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:25.880
<v Speaker 4>inside of the header of the packet that when you

957
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:29.199
<v Speaker 4>receive a packet off the airwaves and then send it on,

958
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.880
<v Speaker 4>you decrement that number by one, and so by default

959
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:34.840
<v Speaker 4>it starts at three. You can turn it all the

960
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:36.639
<v Speaker 4>way up to seven if you really want to, but

961
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.480
<v Speaker 4>please don't unless you really really have a good reason

962
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:42.760
<v Speaker 4>for doing so. And so once once that, it's kind

963
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:44.880
<v Speaker 4>of like for networking guys, it's a lot like the

964
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:48.159
<v Speaker 4>TTL the Time to Live. It's very similar idea, and

965
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.880
<v Speaker 4>so it. When the set number ticks down to zero,

966
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.519
<v Speaker 4>packet or radios just stop rebroadcasting. And the reason that's

967
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.079
<v Speaker 4>fairly important is because you don't want to packet storm.

968
00:49:58.159 --> 00:49:59.519
<v Speaker 4>And so if you're in a situation where you have

969
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:02.239
<v Speaker 4>a lot of traffic, uh, you can actually get into

970
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:05.239
<v Speaker 4>a packet storm where a radio, because these things have

971
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:08.760
<v Speaker 4>very limited ram, very limited memory. Oh yeah, a radio

972
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:12.199
<v Speaker 4>can forget that it's seen a packet. And if that packet,

973
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, has a a hops limit that is too high, uh,

974
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:19.280
<v Speaker 4>it could hear it again and rebroadcast it again. And

975
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:23.119
<v Speaker 4>so just because the you know, the bandwidth on these modes,

976
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.519
<v Speaker 4>on these uh, it is so limited. Uh, it does

977
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.239
<v Speaker 4>not make sense in almost any situation to try to

978
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.440
<v Speaker 4>set your hops limit higher than three uh. And and

979
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.000
<v Speaker 4>we really really encourage people not to do that unless

980
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:39.559
<v Speaker 4>they really really have a precise reason why choose.

981
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:43.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, ask how you figure that out?

982
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:47.039
<v Speaker 7>If you heard the level, we have a low level answer,

983
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:49.559
<v Speaker 7>which I think my answer your question about how we

984
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:54.320
<v Speaker 7>figured this out. Right, So, when when people think about

985
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:57.920
<v Speaker 7>communicating between two points, we are very familiar with the internet.

986
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:01.000
<v Speaker 7>I'm sending a message for me to you, right, and

987
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:03.480
<v Speaker 7>they think that's one hop, but do.

988
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:06.000
<v Speaker 2>A trace route. It's not one. Do a trace route.

989
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:09.280
<v Speaker 7>Each of those is.

990
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:10.599
<v Speaker 2>A hop incorrect.

991
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:16.599
<v Speaker 7>When you're in RF and you send a radio transmission

992
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:19.920
<v Speaker 7>out there, you're not on a broadcast medium. That message

993
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:23.880
<v Speaker 7>you send out, it gets sent out to everyone within range,

994
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:30.039
<v Speaker 7>everyone within that topic graphical area. And what you really

995
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:33.440
<v Speaker 7>want is that packet, that that message to be received

996
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:37.480
<v Speaker 7>by everyone near you and everyone who's really far away.

997
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:40.480
<v Speaker 7>And so what our algorithm does is we say everyone's

998
00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:45.280
<v Speaker 7>really far away will be your first hop, right, and

999
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:51.480
<v Speaker 7>so those those people will retransmit your message. That way,

1000
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:55.320
<v Speaker 7>the message goes as far as possible into the most

1001
00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:01.280
<v Speaker 7>interfered areas of your network. And one of the the

1002
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.880
<v Speaker 7>perceptions people have is if I set my hops greater

1003
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.679
<v Speaker 7>than three, nice picture. If I set my hops greater

1004
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:10.519
<v Speaker 7>than I'll get to more places.

1005
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:15.320
<v Speaker 2>And you know, yes, but is it efficient?

1006
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:19.960
<v Speaker 7>Yes it does. But what you're actually doing is you're

1007
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.039
<v Speaker 7>about tripling the cost over the air for that VAT,

1008
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:29.119
<v Speaker 7>and we actually have data on this. You're only improving

1009
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:34.280
<v Speaker 7>your reception by about a percent percent in the half right.

1010
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:40.000
<v Speaker 7>We've proven this by doing both simulations using our actual

1011
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:44.039
<v Speaker 7>software and through real world testing. So there's a huge,

1012
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:50.119
<v Speaker 7>huge cost on increasing the hops, but at seems to

1013
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.400
<v Speaker 7>be the magic number. It just seems to work there,

1014
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:53.400
<v Speaker 7>really really well.

1015
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:54.719
<v Speaker 2>I think that's good number.

1016
00:52:54.920 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, as you look at the graphic that's up there,

1017
00:52:57.559 --> 00:53:00.000
<v Speaker 6>I think that's a really good visual way to because

1018
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:02.440
<v Speaker 6>one of the things with three hops is that your

1019
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:04.840
<v Speaker 6>initial radio where you sent it out and it has

1020
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:08.360
<v Speaker 6>three hops, you're not counted there, and the destination is

1021
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:08.960
<v Speaker 6>not counted.

1022
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:10.559
<v Speaker 5>So it's gone from.

1023
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:14.840
<v Speaker 6>Your radio through three radios and then a destination at

1024
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:18.119
<v Speaker 6>that point. So three sounds like a small number, but

1025
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:21.760
<v Speaker 6>if you do seven, it's that number is now nine.

1026
00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:25.599
<v Speaker 6>And so if you had if you have a mountaintop repeater,

1027
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:29.840
<v Speaker 6>and you have many radios that are a long distance apart,

1028
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.800
<v Speaker 6>you might have the need for more hops in order

1029
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:35.360
<v Speaker 6>to get to where you're going.

1030
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.559
<v Speaker 4>But the beacons of gondor if you're if you're if

1031
00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:39.960
<v Speaker 4>you're trying to get the beacons on the mountaintops go right,

1032
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:43.079
<v Speaker 4>the beacon can marry. Yeah, you might need more than three.

1033
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:46.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so and you'll kind of find that you need.

1034
00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:49.079
<v Speaker 6>You know, if you're if you're not making it over

1035
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.400
<v Speaker 6>a really long distance and you have a really well

1036
00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:53.400
<v Speaker 6>set up network, and the trace we'ro oute, like you said,

1037
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:57.519
<v Speaker 6>is never making it to the last thing. Then then

1038
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:01.519
<v Speaker 6>increasing hops can't help. But in general you've probably hurting

1039
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:04.559
<v Speaker 6>yourself most of the time, especially if most people are

1040
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:05.159
<v Speaker 6>in kind of.

1041
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.599
<v Speaker 5>A denser area and then and then they're.

1042
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:12.239
<v Speaker 6>Doing these bridging between you know, distances where there's less

1043
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:16.639
<v Speaker 6>humans in between basically. And so I think that graphic,

1044
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.760
<v Speaker 6>one of our other bends, we seemingly have a post

1045
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.679
<v Speaker 6>of bends that works on our documentation, came up with

1046
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.360
<v Speaker 6>this graphic, and I think it's a really good representation

1047
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:27.000
<v Speaker 6>of what's really happening there.

1048
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:28.039
<v Speaker 3>So nice.

1049
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:31.639
<v Speaker 7>Nice, I've never even seen this graphic. This is awesome.

1050
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.079
<v Speaker 2>That's got to be. That's got to be a Spec

1051
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:36.400
<v Speaker 2>five graphic because that's their case in the in the

1052
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:36.880
<v Speaker 2>middle there.

1053
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:42.519
<v Speaker 5>No, that is a tropho Tony Tony's case. That isn't fantastic. Absolutely,

1054
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:44.960
<v Speaker 5>that's a metastic logo on there.

1055
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:50.719
<v Speaker 2>It's possible, this is what it is. Okay, Okay, it's possible.

1056
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:52.119
<v Speaker 2>I have too many no's and I get them all

1057
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.079
<v Speaker 2>confused because I have I own about ten or twelve

1058
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:56.960
<v Speaker 2>different notes. I don't have run them all at the same time.

1059
00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:01.559
<v Speaker 2>But I have so well all right, so yeah, yeah,

1060
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:03.960
<v Speaker 2>so this one, this one is good here and this

1061
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:05.880
<v Speaker 2>one I'm gonna learn something on this one. So this

1062
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.599
<v Speaker 2>is again from Robert SOLISTI sent me an overview of

1063
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:13.559
<v Speaker 2>PKC and it's role in secure and communication within the network.

1064
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:15.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what pk C is. I have no

1065
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:16.480
<v Speaker 2>idea what that is.

1066
00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:20.719
<v Speaker 4>Public soblic key cryptography, Yeah, this this one is.

1067
00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:21.719
<v Speaker 1>It was my baby.

1068
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:23.559
<v Speaker 4>So we had a we had a problem. We had

1069
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:26.519
<v Speaker 4>a problem in meshtastic that a lot of people unfortunately

1070
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:29.480
<v Speaker 4>didn't realize. And that's when when you send a direct

1071
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:31.280
<v Speaker 4>message between two notes. So like we have, we have

1072
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:32.960
<v Speaker 4>two different ways you can send messages. You can send

1073
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:35.440
<v Speaker 4>a broadcast message everybody in the channel gets it. You

1074
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:37.960
<v Speaker 4>could send a direct message and that is only to

1075
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:41.360
<v Speaker 4>a specific person, a specific other node to be precise.

1076
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:45.559
<v Speaker 4>And the way this used to work was you sent

1077
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:48.760
<v Speaker 4>it exactly like a broadcast message, which the little note

1078
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:50.639
<v Speaker 4>on there that says, hey, this is to this person,

1079
00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:53.800
<v Speaker 4>and so it was it was actually really really trivial

1080
00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:57.079
<v Speaker 4>to read those direct messages if you were on the

1081
00:55:57.159 --> 00:55:59.719
<v Speaker 4>same network, so like if you had the same password,

1082
00:55:59.760 --> 00:55:59.960
<v Speaker 4>you could.

1083
00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:00.360
<v Speaker 3>You could.

1084
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:03.000
<v Speaker 4>It was very trivial to write some hacked firmware that

1085
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:07.440
<v Speaker 4>would just accept all of those messages, and people didn't

1086
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:09.360
<v Speaker 4>realize that that's really what the problem was. It like

1087
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:11.559
<v Speaker 4>we had it in the documentation, but not everybody realized it.

1088
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:12.840
<v Speaker 4>And so every once in a while you would see

1089
00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:15.599
<v Speaker 4>somebody would share like a screenshot of something where it's like,

1090
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:19.119
<v Speaker 4>here's this direct message that somebody sent that's really pretty

1091
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:21.000
<v Speaker 4>personal and we probably shouldn't be seeing it right now

1092
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:23.840
<v Speaker 4>because they didn't realize what was going on. Here's the

1093
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:27.880
<v Speaker 4>direct message, right And so there was a it's been

1094
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:30.800
<v Speaker 4>a couple of years ago now, a user saw this

1095
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:33.239
<v Speaker 4>and said, well, hey, why don't we do some public

1096
00:56:33.320 --> 00:56:37.239
<v Speaker 4>key cryptography. He sent a pull request in for it,

1097
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:39.760
<v Speaker 4>and there was a little bit of back and forth,

1098
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.360
<v Speaker 4>and then like he just kind of I don't know

1099
00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:42.559
<v Speaker 4>what happened to him. He had to move on to

1100
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.119
<v Speaker 4>something else and it never got moved over the finish line.

1101
00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:47.639
<v Speaker 4>And so I came along and I said, hey, this

1102
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:50.159
<v Speaker 4>is actually really good work. I bet I can rewrite this,

1103
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.159
<v Speaker 4>make it work, change a couple of little things about it,

1104
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:54.239
<v Speaker 4>and push it over the finish line. And we did,

1105
00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:56.239
<v Speaker 4>and so that was in what a two pot five

1106
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:58.920
<v Speaker 4>I think is the firmware where that landed. And it

1107
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:02.960
<v Speaker 4>is what we do is on device, on first device boot,

1108
00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:07.440
<v Speaker 4>we generate a public key, and then after that, when

1109
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:09.360
<v Speaker 4>we send out our note info like hey, I'm on

1110
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:12.320
<v Speaker 4>the network, here's my here's my node number, and here's

1111
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.199
<v Speaker 4>my short name and long name, we now say and

1112
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:19.480
<v Speaker 4>here's my public key. And so any device that you

1113
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:22.519
<v Speaker 4>have a public key for, you can then encrypt using

1114
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:24.960
<v Speaker 4>if you want to know, it's it's elliptic kalk cryptography.

1115
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:27.199
<v Speaker 4>It's it's the X two five, five one nine curve.

1116
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:30.000
<v Speaker 4>So all for all the crypto nerds out there that

1117
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:31.519
<v Speaker 4>that's a thing for everybody else.

1118
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:34.840
<v Speaker 3>Been a while, yeah, yeah, I lived in that world.

1119
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:38.639
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And so it it is actual public key crypto.

1120
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:42.639
<v Speaker 4>So you can now send direct messages between two nodes

1121
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:46.440
<v Speaker 4>and they could share even the public channel, and it

1122
00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:49.559
<v Speaker 4>is a truly encrypted message now and you can't spy

1123
00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:50.679
<v Speaker 4>on anymore.

1124
00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:55.559
<v Speaker 3>How how long are your messages can be within the

1125
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.880
<v Speaker 3>data payload, because the keys are depending how many characters

1126
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:01.599
<v Speaker 3>said it to are quite long.

1127
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:06.280
<v Speaker 4>We are using I think it's sixteen. I think it's

1128
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:09.800
<v Speaker 4>sixteen byte keys, and so that has been that has

1129
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.559
<v Speaker 4>been interesting. We've learned some things about some radios as

1130
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:14.880
<v Speaker 4>a result of that. Because our note info got longer

1131
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:18.079
<v Speaker 4>by sixteen bytes. Note info was not super long, and

1132
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:21.880
<v Speaker 4>we also discovered some things inside of note info that

1133
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:23.920
<v Speaker 4>didn't need to be there, so we kind of gained

1134
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:28.400
<v Speaker 4>and lost some bytes. So our max message size is

1135
00:58:28.440 --> 00:58:30.840
<v Speaker 4>two hundred and fifty six and then when we did

1136
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:35.079
<v Speaker 4>public key crypto, we lost I think it's twelve bytes.

1137
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:37.920
<v Speaker 4>So with your public key crypto, you don't have to

1138
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:40.079
<v Speaker 4>send your public key as a part of that because

1139
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:42.719
<v Speaker 4>that get it gets distributed in the note info packets,

1140
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:45.920
<v Speaker 4>so you don't lose the public key itself. But when

1141
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:48.679
<v Speaker 4>we did this new crypto thing, we took the opportunity

1142
00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:50.199
<v Speaker 4>to look at it and go, man, it would be

1143
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:54.400
<v Speaker 4>nice if we were doing authenticated as well. So AAEAD,

1144
00:58:54.920 --> 00:58:57.639
<v Speaker 4>which basically means not only are we, you know, guaranteeing

1145
00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.159
<v Speaker 4>that it's encrypted, but we're guaranteeing that the bytes that

1146
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:03.239
<v Speaker 4>you received are the bites that were sent, which.

1147
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:05.760
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of a Ford error correction.

1148
00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:08.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a type of error correction built into it.

1149
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:09.159
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

1150
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:12.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And so that takes up a few bites, and

1151
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:14.840
<v Speaker 4>so I think it's about a twelve byte overhead we've

1152
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:17.079
<v Speaker 4>got on the direct messages because of that. But oh,

1153
00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:18.400
<v Speaker 4>it is so much more secure.

1154
00:59:19.400 --> 00:59:21.719
<v Speaker 3>Here's a question from Robert kind of STEMS.

1155
00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:23.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna read that. Go ahead,

1156
00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:24.119
<v Speaker 2>go ahead.

1157
00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:26.280
<v Speaker 3>You can read it probably better than I am, but

1158
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:27.159
<v Speaker 3>I'll give it a shot.

1159
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead.

1160
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:33.079
<v Speaker 3>Has there any third party security app test on either

1161
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:35.280
<v Speaker 3>the Android or iOS app yet?

1162
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:38.719
<v Speaker 4>We've had some people look at it, and so if

1163
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:40.960
<v Speaker 4>you go to meshtastic dot org, there is a place

1164
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:43.800
<v Speaker 4>where I'll try to find the exact u r O

1165
00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:46.280
<v Speaker 4>for you here in a second, but there's a place

1166
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:48.119
<v Speaker 4>where we've had a couple of different cryptographers take a

1167
00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:50.920
<v Speaker 4>look at the system. Now that I think, I think

1168
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:52.880
<v Speaker 4>that's been a little while since the last one really

1169
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:56.480
<v Speaker 4>took a detailed look at it. But if somebody is

1170
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:59.119
<v Speaker 4>out there and wants to like let us know, I

1171
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:01.239
<v Speaker 4>will give you the guy and tour through the codebase,

1172
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:03.599
<v Speaker 4>and you are absolutely more than welcome to look at

1173
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:05.880
<v Speaker 4>it and let us know if we found something. We've

1174
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:08.800
<v Speaker 4>so we have gotten CVS. If you go to our

1175
01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:11.280
<v Speaker 4>GitHub and security there are some really cvs where people

1176
01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:14.880
<v Speaker 4>have found things and we are you know, we we

1177
01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:17.599
<v Speaker 4>believe in a ninety day disclosure where it makes sense,

1178
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:19.239
<v Speaker 4>which I think so far has been all of them.

1179
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.000
<v Speaker 4>We get things fixed. We get fixed just absolutely as

1180
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:23.840
<v Speaker 4>quick as we can improve you.

1181
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:27.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's awesome. Not a lot of companies to do that.

1182
01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I definitely try to.

1183
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.639
<v Speaker 3>I used to live in cryptography. I used to do

1184
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:33.519
<v Speaker 3>credit card processing, and that was my bread and butter.

1185
01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:36.440
<v Speaker 2>And which is why so many credit cards get hacked

1186
01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:37.760
<v Speaker 2>these days. It's you.

1187
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm out of that world. Now I'm somewhere else.

1188
01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:42.199
<v Speaker 3>I can't talk.

1189
01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Your code is still out there, though, Oh it is

1190
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:46.880
<v Speaker 2>the code, the code out there that says tank is

1191
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.880
<v Speaker 2>awesome or something that's still out there somewhere.

1192
01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:51.639
<v Speaker 3>It just says my name in every credit card transaction.

1193
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:55.039
<v Speaker 3>Still actually the first time I admitted that.

1194
01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Yeah.

1195
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:00.519
<v Speaker 4>So the fun thing, one last thing kind of square

1196
01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:01.920
<v Speaker 4>the circle on this. The fun thing that I've been

1197
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.760
<v Speaker 4>looking for here recently is a crypto processor, like an

1198
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.119
<v Speaker 4>I two C device that we can put on a

1199
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:12.679
<v Speaker 4>radio that will actually store that crypto graphic key on

1200
01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:16.360
<v Speaker 4>the processor rather than on the main MCU of the device.

1201
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:19.239
<v Speaker 4>And the thing that I've run into is apparently, in

1202
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.639
<v Speaker 4>these cryptographic processors, X two five five one nine is

1203
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.400
<v Speaker 4>not the popular cryptographic curve. Everybody wants to use the

1204
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:27.920
<v Speaker 4>NIST curves. And I've only found.

1205
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:28.679
<v Speaker 1>Like three of these.

1206
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:30.800
<v Speaker 4>One of them is in pre release, the other one

1207
01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:32.840
<v Speaker 4>you've got to sign an NDA to get to anything

1208
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:35.519
<v Speaker 4>about it. And it's like, why why you make this

1209
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:36.199
<v Speaker 4>so hard?

1210
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:40.760
<v Speaker 3>Last question on this, is there any process or slowdown

1211
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:46.119
<v Speaker 3>dealing with encrypt ecryptinds or because the or is there

1212
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:47.800
<v Speaker 3>that you haven't seen anything on that.

1213
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:52.039
<v Speaker 4>Theoretically, yes, of course you're doing you know, you're doing

1214
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:54.519
<v Speaker 4>the X two five five one nine Diffie Helman curves

1215
01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:57.400
<v Speaker 4>for every incoming packet, well half of it, half of

1216
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:01.199
<v Speaker 4>the curve, half of the Diffie Helman. But I've I've

1217
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:03.119
<v Speaker 4>not I've not seen anything. I've messed around with it

1218
01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:04.960
<v Speaker 4>quite a bit. Now, like if you were, if you

1219
01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:07.639
<v Speaker 4>were to try to do so, we've got one user

1220
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:10.360
<v Speaker 4>that does crazy things like let's do s S h

1221
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:14.199
<v Speaker 4>over the over the mesh like that kind of as

1222
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:16.079
<v Speaker 4>many you know, it's many packets back and forth as

1223
01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:18.360
<v Speaker 4>you can, there's some there's some room there where we

1224
01:02:18.360 --> 01:02:20.039
<v Speaker 4>can make it better, like there's some things that are

1225
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:21.400
<v Speaker 4>not going to be quite perfect with that.

1226
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.119
<v Speaker 1>But just for normal use no, you don't see it

1227
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:24.440
<v Speaker 1>at all.

1228
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:27.719
<v Speaker 3>I mean going outside the realm of your initial use

1229
01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:30.440
<v Speaker 3>case of the device. Yes, you you like to see

1230
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:32.960
<v Speaker 3>it evolve. But on the other hand, trying to do

1231
01:02:33.159 --> 01:02:36.360
<v Speaker 3>S S H and bring it into the internet spectrum is.

1232
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:42.119
<v Speaker 4>Oh, it's it's yeah, it's definitely outside of the what

1233
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:44.679
<v Speaker 4>we what we thought of people doing it the normal

1234
01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:48.119
<v Speaker 4>use case. So Jam is going to comment on this too,

1235
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:51.039
<v Speaker 4>I know he is, but I will say, don't do

1236
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:53.320
<v Speaker 4>that on the default channel, and don't even do that

1237
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:56.320
<v Speaker 4>on long fast. That belongs on short fast. So you know, again,

1238
01:02:57.079 --> 01:02:59.920
<v Speaker 4>use the the quickest bit rate that you can because

1239
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:01.400
<v Speaker 4>anything else is just going to be terrible.

1240
01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:05.519
<v Speaker 8>Okay, most of that is point to point right, Like

1241
01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:08.559
<v Speaker 8>it doesn't really use the match because if you did

1242
01:03:08.559 --> 01:03:11.199
<v Speaker 8>it on them, on a flooded match, it would crash everything,

1243
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:13.239
<v Speaker 8>even on short Turbo, which is.

1244
01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:15.800
<v Speaker 6>Actually the preset that we've put in there to do

1245
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:17.119
<v Speaker 6>file transfer stuff.

1246
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:21.079
<v Speaker 2>A second, so I want to I want to ask

1247
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:23.480
<v Speaker 2>a question because we've been going for an hour now

1248
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:25.480
<v Speaker 2>and you guys have been great. This is awesome. I

1249
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:27.800
<v Speaker 2>would really like to get you guys back onto another

1250
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:28.360
<v Speaker 2>show soon.

1251
01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:28.960
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

1252
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:34.920
<v Speaker 2>The the long fast and the short fast channels, that's two,

1253
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:38.920
<v Speaker 2>and there's what six or eight of them? Long slow,

1254
01:03:39.079 --> 01:03:43.960
<v Speaker 2>short slow or something like that, So can you can

1255
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:48.440
<v Speaker 2>you explain what those are? Just kind of like high

1256
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:51.519
<v Speaker 2>level like if you say long fast, what is long

1257
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:53.760
<v Speaker 2>and fast mean? And what is short and fast mean?

1258
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:56.920
<v Speaker 2>And there's like, like I said, there's what either four

1259
01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:58.960
<v Speaker 2>or six different channels that you can choose from.

1260
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:01.599
<v Speaker 3>I was about to ask this, Okay.

1261
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:03.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I would like someone to explain that.

1262
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:04.880
<v Speaker 7>Please let me take this one.

1263
01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:05.679
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead.

1264
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:08.679
<v Speaker 7>I apologize for the name the nine of them.

1265
01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:12.079
<v Speaker 2>They're nine, Okay. I was thinking I was taking eight,

1266
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:14.079
<v Speaker 2>but I couldn't remember. I haven't looked at it in

1267
01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:15.960
<v Speaker 2>a while, So go ahead. I'm sorry you.

1268
01:04:16.119 --> 01:04:19.320
<v Speaker 7>No, no, no's cool. The names looked a lot better

1269
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:25.440
<v Speaker 7>when I typed it into Google spreads.

1270
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Okay, then.

1271
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:30.000
<v Speaker 7>Out to the YEA makes sense. Let's use it, let's

1272
01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:32.280
<v Speaker 7>use it, let's use it. Right. Yeah, So there was

1273
01:04:32.320 --> 01:04:36.480
<v Speaker 7>a couple intents, right. The intent was to communicate to

1274
01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:39.719
<v Speaker 7>an uninformed audience, these are people who are coming in

1275
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:43.039
<v Speaker 7>for the first time, Uh, what sort of range they

1276
01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:48.719
<v Speaker 7>should expect by picking a preset long range, theme range

1277
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:52.119
<v Speaker 7>short range. One of the problems we've learned with this

1278
01:04:52.280 --> 01:04:56.559
<v Speaker 7>assumption is there is no actual definition of what long.

1279
01:04:56.519 --> 01:05:00.039
<v Speaker 2>Medium, or right right exactly. That's that's what I I

1280
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.320
<v Speaker 2>figured out myself. Okay, okay, good keep going.

1281
01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:06.800
<v Speaker 7>And then within the elongs, we gave you an option

1282
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:14.719
<v Speaker 7>of uh fast or slow right actual bandwidth and the

1283
01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.760
<v Speaker 7>actual functional difference is three dB in link budget, so

1284
01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:23.639
<v Speaker 7>you know, but it's not that much loss, but you

1285
01:05:23.719 --> 01:05:28.000
<v Speaker 7>get either more speed or less speed. Now under the hood. Uh,

1286
01:05:28.599 --> 01:05:32.559
<v Speaker 7>the reason why there was only nine of these is

1287
01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:37.639
<v Speaker 7>with Laura, you use this thing called the spreading factor.

1288
01:05:37.760 --> 01:05:41.400
<v Speaker 7>This is how much your signal is spread over your

1289
01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:47.039
<v Speaker 7>available bandwidth. There are nine of these available to use. Okay,

1290
01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:51.519
<v Speaker 7>you can have a single frequency nine hundred two point

1291
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:54.320
<v Speaker 7>one two three four, right, you can have that one

1292
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:59.480
<v Speaker 7>center frequency, and using different spreading factors, you can actually

1293
01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:04.760
<v Speaker 7>use that one frequency nine different times and not have

1294
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:12.239
<v Speaker 7>any appreciable overlap or interference on the technology. Right.

1295
01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:15.280
<v Speaker 2>So is that like, is that like frequency hopping?

1296
01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:19.800
<v Speaker 7>Then it's not frequency hopping. It's so Laura allows you

1297
01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:24.599
<v Speaker 7>to receive below the noise floor. When you are using

1298
01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:31.719
<v Speaker 7>different spreading factors on that exact same center frequency, all

1299
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:34.519
<v Speaker 7>of the other use is now below the noise floor, right,

1300
01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:36.880
<v Speaker 7>so you're able to use it over and over. So

1301
01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:42.199
<v Speaker 7>part of the reason for having these different presets is

1302
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:49.239
<v Speaker 7>to give you an abstracted term for these spreading factors.

1303
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:52.679
<v Speaker 7>So you could have frequency nine to two point one

1304
01:06:52.679 --> 01:06:55.400
<v Speaker 7>two three four on long fast, and you could have

1305
01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:58.360
<v Speaker 7>spreading frequency nine one nine two point one two three

1306
01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:03.480
<v Speaker 7>four on long fast, and you're able to reuse or

1307
01:07:04.119 --> 01:07:09.639
<v Speaker 7>use the available bandwidth more efficiently by overlapping the use.

1308
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:13.239
<v Speaker 7>That was part of the contention. Now, Okay, you hit

1309
01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:17.000
<v Speaker 7>it on the head. It's not elegant. It's it's not

1310
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:22.760
<v Speaker 7>an easy way to communicate, uh, the the the these presets,

1311
01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:26.480
<v Speaker 7>we're thinking about just naming it by how many bits

1312
01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:29.599
<v Speaker 7>per second you have, or just just just something more tangible.

1313
01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:34.440
<v Speaker 2>And you know, well, we had a we had a

1314
01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:37.159
<v Speaker 2>so you I don't know if you guys are familiar

1315
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:41.000
<v Speaker 2>with the company called Spec five. They're they're down in Austin, Texas.

1316
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:44.679
<v Speaker 2>So they did a they did a meetup down there

1317
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:47.679
<v Speaker 2>in October called mesh Con and there was probably like

1318
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:49.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty people there. It wasn't huge, but it was their

1319
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:53.519
<v Speaker 2>first time. Hats off to them. Great people really Like

1320
01:07:54.320 --> 01:07:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Daniel was on the show two or three weeks ago.

1321
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:05.280
<v Speaker 2>They I lost I lost my train of thought real quick.

1322
01:08:05.559 --> 01:08:08.239
<v Speaker 2>But it was like they, oh, oh, I know what

1323
01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say. So one of the so we

1324
01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:12.280
<v Speaker 2>had a big Q and A. At the end of

1325
01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:14.199
<v Speaker 2>they did a couple of presentations, we had a big

1326
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Q and A and they're like, well, you know, people

1327
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:18.520
<v Speaker 2>get these and they hook them up and they don't

1328
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:21.600
<v Speaker 2>know what the settings to do and what. And I'm like, literally,

1329
01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:24.279
<v Speaker 2>and I raised my hand. I said, literally, I have

1330
01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:29.880
<v Speaker 2>bought I don't know a dozen mesh Tastic nodes Lilygo

1331
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:33.680
<v Speaker 2>hell Tech their stuff Spec five, you know, a couple

1332
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:36.359
<v Speaker 2>other things and whatnot. And I'm like, I have received

1333
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:42.039
<v Speaker 2>zero instructions on what to use and why in this

1334
01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:44.720
<v Speaker 2>whole thing. So and one of their things was, well,

1335
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:45.960
<v Speaker 2>people get it out of the box and they just

1336
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:47.279
<v Speaker 2>plug it up and go. They don't know how to

1337
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:49.479
<v Speaker 2>set it up. And I'm like, well, you're not telling

1338
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:52.000
<v Speaker 2>people how to set it up. So it's kind of

1339
01:08:52.039 --> 01:08:53.800
<v Speaker 2>one of those things where it's like and I know

1340
01:08:53.920 --> 01:08:56.640
<v Speaker 2>it's all open source. It's all like you know, sink

1341
01:08:56.720 --> 01:08:59.079
<v Speaker 2>or swim fin for yourself. You know, if you can't

1342
01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:04.279
<v Speaker 2>understand it, go away, go go do iPhone development. I

1343
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:05.680
<v Speaker 2>don't want to say that out loud, but you know

1344
01:09:05.720 --> 01:09:06.319
<v Speaker 2>that's what I said.

1345
01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:11.359
<v Speaker 3>So toys for people who don't want to understand.

1346
01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:15.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, toys for tots. Yeah yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1347
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:18.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm teasing your guards. I hate iPhones, but that's

1348
01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:20.560
<v Speaker 2>not your fault. So I was talking to Mike.

1349
01:09:20.800 --> 01:09:21.560
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what about that.

1350
01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:25.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Mike, and he's but yeah, no, seriously. So

1351
01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:29.279
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like it would be really cool if

1352
01:09:29.319 --> 01:09:34.359
<v Speaker 2>every mesh Tastic node or you know device that you

1353
01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:37.319
<v Speaker 2>that that is sold, came with like a QR code

1354
01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:40.880
<v Speaker 2>that said, hey, go here and figure out how the

1355
01:09:40.920 --> 01:09:44.039
<v Speaker 2>hell to set up all your stuff when you plug

1356
01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:47.000
<v Speaker 2>it up the first time. So that's that that's kind

1357
01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:48.960
<v Speaker 2>of like, you know, I because they were asking how

1358
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:50.880
<v Speaker 2>do we grow this community? How do how do we

1359
01:09:50.960 --> 01:09:54.840
<v Speaker 2>keep people from broadcasting long fast on m QTT with

1360
01:09:54.920 --> 01:09:57.399
<v Speaker 2>four hundred thousand nodes around him, I'm like, well, I

1361
01:09:57.439 --> 01:09:59.399
<v Speaker 2>mean I didn't know that when the thing, So you know,

1362
01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of I mean, it's all information that is

1363
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:08.600
<v Speaker 2>not known by that common end user. So that was

1364
01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:09.399
<v Speaker 2>kind of my point.

1365
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:12.159
<v Speaker 6>So I think one thing here, I would say that

1366
01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:14.399
<v Speaker 6>there's a little bit of history here and kind of

1367
01:10:14.439 --> 01:10:20.000
<v Speaker 6>the beauty of open source. So we had the like anything,

1368
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:23.079
<v Speaker 6>everybody kind of uses the defaults, right.

1369
01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:25.600
<v Speaker 2>So we have mind presets here, correct.

1370
01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:27.079
<v Speaker 5>And people use the defaults.

1371
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.840
<v Speaker 6>And what used to happen with mestastic when I first

1372
01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:34.039
<v Speaker 6>started is that you either used the default public channel

1373
01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:36.399
<v Speaker 6>and you connected up and then you saw a bunch

1374
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:38.119
<v Speaker 6>of people, and if you weren't a ham and you

1375
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:40.880
<v Speaker 6>weren't used to sort of rag chewing with random people

1376
01:10:40.920 --> 01:10:42.760
<v Speaker 6>that were around you, and you wanted to have your

1377
01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:46.760
<v Speaker 6>own like closed network, you switched to a private channel.

1378
01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:49.359
<v Speaker 6>And these were binary choices. You could either be on

1379
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:52.359
<v Speaker 6>the public channel or you could be on your private channel.

1380
01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:56.640
<v Speaker 5>And one of our users discovered that if he set

1381
01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:00.399
<v Speaker 5>the frequency slot, is the name of the setting to

1382
01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:03.640
<v Speaker 5>equal the one that is the hash that the frequency sow.

1383
01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:05.600
<v Speaker 5>It is set by the name of your channel.

1384
01:11:06.119 --> 01:11:09.000
<v Speaker 6>If your channel doesn't have a name, which is the

1385
01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:13.119
<v Speaker 6>long fast that everyone uses, then he uses the name

1386
01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:15.880
<v Speaker 6>of the preset to create that hash, and then that

1387
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:20.039
<v Speaker 6>hash looks at the available frequency range and says, we're

1388
01:11:20.560 --> 01:11:22.760
<v Speaker 6>I was at nine oh six for the long Fast

1389
01:11:22.840 --> 01:11:25.880
<v Speaker 6>or something like that, and that is frequently slot twenty.

1390
01:11:26.319 --> 01:11:29.039
<v Speaker 6>So somebody figured out that they could have their private channel,

1391
01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:33.119
<v Speaker 6>and then a guy named Jack in Minnesota, and he

1392
01:11:33.159 --> 01:11:37.159
<v Speaker 6>figured out he could have his primary channel where everything

1393
01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:40.199
<v Speaker 6>was safe. Everything broadcasts on the primary channel. So one

1394
01:11:40.199 --> 01:11:42.159
<v Speaker 6>of the main things with the Laura mesh is that

1395
01:11:42.199 --> 01:11:44.960
<v Speaker 6>it's flooded and you don't want to broadcast things twice,

1396
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:48.520
<v Speaker 6>so everything goes out over the primary channel. And then

1397
01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:53.039
<v Speaker 6>the secondary channels are either group chats or requested stuff,

1398
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:55.800
<v Speaker 6>So you could request a position on a secondary channel,

1399
01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.039
<v Speaker 6>but you can't broadcast from that channel.

1400
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:00.960
<v Speaker 5>And so this was a pretty big change.

1401
01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:02.800
<v Speaker 6>In fact, I kind of initially was like, is this

1402
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:05.479
<v Speaker 6>a security hole that we have here, And it's not.

1403
01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:08.119
<v Speaker 6>It's worked out well, and so you can set up

1404
01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:11.560
<v Speaker 6>that long Fast as the secondary channel now and and

1405
01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:15.079
<v Speaker 6>kind of involve yourself in the public bench, but also

1406
01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:18.119
<v Speaker 6>have all your private channels. So that that's a thing

1407
01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:21.239
<v Speaker 6>that happened just kind of naturally via the open source

1408
01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:25.800
<v Speaker 6>that really changed the trajectory completely of mesh tasta because

1409
01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:29.640
<v Speaker 6>you can have both, and it made the public channel

1410
01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.920
<v Speaker 6>much better. So it used to be people would switch

1411
01:12:32.920 --> 01:12:37.039
<v Speaker 6>around more between presets because once they left the default channel,

1412
01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:40.640
<v Speaker 6>then they weren't they weren't there anymore, and they would

1413
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:43.359
<v Speaker 6>go to like there's a long moderate preset and media

1414
01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:46.800
<v Speaker 6>Bend one of the firmware engineers used for a long time,

1415
01:12:47.319 --> 01:12:51.640
<v Speaker 6>and it works a little farther. I'm in in Washington

1416
01:12:51.640 --> 01:12:53.479
<v Speaker 6>and there's a lot of trees and stuff. It helps

1417
01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:55.239
<v Speaker 6>me kind of fight through the trees a little bit

1418
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:58.640
<v Speaker 6>better and stuff. But the text messages are slower, and

1419
01:12:58.720 --> 01:13:01.880
<v Speaker 6>so when you've got more people, that extra and people

1420
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:04.520
<v Speaker 6>are annoyed by text messages taking a long time to

1421
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:07.199
<v Speaker 6>get their acts back and to get verification that you

1422
01:13:07.319 --> 01:13:11.159
<v Speaker 6>got that channel. So I think the reason that they're

1423
01:13:11.199 --> 01:13:13.319
<v Speaker 6>like ninety nine percent of the people, I would say

1424
01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:16.279
<v Speaker 6>at this point are running on either long Fast or

1425
01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:20.159
<v Speaker 6>the frequency slot via long Fast in their particular region

1426
01:13:20.199 --> 01:13:23.920
<v Speaker 6>because it gives them access to the public stuff, which

1427
01:13:23.960 --> 01:13:25.520
<v Speaker 6>for disaster stuff.

1428
01:13:25.199 --> 01:13:26.359
<v Speaker 5>And emergencies and.

1429
01:13:27.880 --> 01:13:30.359
<v Speaker 6>Just like you said, seeing if somebody's in town nearby

1430
01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:35.760
<v Speaker 6>you doing stuff like in Helene, I have sold a

1431
01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:38.000
<v Speaker 6>bunch of these solar notes that you see behind me to.

1432
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:40.520
<v Speaker 5>Kind of a bunch of small communities in North.

1433
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:43.359
<v Speaker 6>Carolina for like, I don't know, a year and a half,

1434
01:13:43.640 --> 01:13:46.159
<v Speaker 6>and I got a fantastic message from one of them

1435
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:50.119
<v Speaker 6>and says, hey, we've been without power for four days.

1436
01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:53.680
<v Speaker 6>The entire infrastructure went down, and me and all ten

1437
01:13:53.720 --> 01:13:56.159
<v Speaker 6>of us that bought these radios have just been perfectly

1438
01:13:56.159 --> 01:13:59.039
<v Speaker 6>communicating with each other while having.

1439
01:13:58.880 --> 01:14:01.800
<v Speaker 5>Zero that's awesome cell service or whatever running.

1440
01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:03.600
<v Speaker 6>And one of the beauties is is when all the

1441
01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:06.000
<v Speaker 6>rest of the noise drops down in an emergency and

1442
01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:10.760
<v Speaker 6>meanstastic works fantastically well, right, so there's no more, there's none,

1443
01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:15.000
<v Speaker 6>none of the things that cause congestion when everybody is

1444
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:19.960
<v Speaker 6>playing affected emergency, right, And that people are more careful

1445
01:14:19.960 --> 01:14:23.439
<v Speaker 6>of emergency to not be sending tests because they're right,

1446
01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:26.640
<v Speaker 6>they're pulled and don't have power, and so they want to,

1447
01:14:26.720 --> 01:14:28.600
<v Speaker 6>you know, kind of carefully use that.

1448
01:14:28.760 --> 01:14:33.279
<v Speaker 2>So and the the the underlying purpose is some people

1449
01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:35.520
<v Speaker 2>are going to disagree with with me when I say this,

1450
01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:38.880
<v Speaker 2>but that's okay. I've got a bigger YouTube channel than

1451
01:14:38.920 --> 01:14:44.079
<v Speaker 2>they do, so I'm kidding a little bit a little bit.

1452
01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:47.359
<v Speaker 2>I said that for Frank's benefit. I said that, no,

1453
01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:53.600
<v Speaker 2>I am I. The purpose of ham radio, okay, is

1454
01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:58.960
<v Speaker 2>to is to communicate, is to send messages back and forth.

1455
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:01.359
<v Speaker 2>That's the purpose of hand radio, That's the purpose of

1456
01:15:01.399 --> 01:15:05.279
<v Speaker 2>GMRSCB and everything else too. So mesh tastic if you

1457
01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:11.119
<v Speaker 2>have And I interviewed several guys from the Heleene or

1458
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:17.279
<v Speaker 2>from the North Carolina eastern Tennessee area that assisted in

1459
01:15:17.359 --> 01:15:21.319
<v Speaker 2>clean up efforts after Hurricane Helen. Ham Rado played a

1460
01:15:21.439 --> 01:15:23.720
<v Speaker 2>huge part in that, huge part in that, and we

1461
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:26.159
<v Speaker 2>talked about mesh Tastic on that live stream a little bit.

1462
01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:30.840
<v Speaker 2>And if you are able to use mesh tastic or

1463
01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:35.880
<v Speaker 2>anything to communicate with your community post a natural disaster,

1464
01:15:36.039 --> 01:15:39.840
<v Speaker 2>post some sort of disaster, that is a win in

1465
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:43.399
<v Speaker 2>my opinion. I don't really care what route you take

1466
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:48.520
<v Speaker 2>to communicate. Communication. Opening the lines of communication is the point,

1467
01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:51.359
<v Speaker 2>that is the goal, That is the end game. Can

1468
01:15:51.399 --> 01:15:54.600
<v Speaker 2>you communicate with your neighbor down the street, someone across town,

1469
01:15:54.640 --> 01:15:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and someone in another state? Yes or no? Can you

1470
01:15:56.640 --> 01:15:59.159
<v Speaker 2>do this yes or no? If you can, you have won.

1471
01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:01.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't really care how you do it. And even

1472
01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:07.000
<v Speaker 2>if even if that is done via starlink and the internet.

1473
01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:12.000
<v Speaker 2>If you if you're tornado if if right, if if

1474
01:16:12.159 --> 01:16:16.239
<v Speaker 2>if if a hurricane or tornado come through your area

1475
01:16:16.319 --> 01:16:18.479
<v Speaker 2>and tore up everything and you have like, oh, I

1476
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:21.479
<v Speaker 2>have a star link in a bag in my r

1477
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:23.560
<v Speaker 2>V or in my garage that I put in my

1478
01:16:23.680 --> 01:16:25.520
<v Speaker 2>RV and then you put up after the fact and

1479
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:27.800
<v Speaker 2>you're like, oh, I'm on the internet. Now that's a win.

1480
01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:29.920
<v Speaker 2>That's the win. I don't really care what it is.

1481
01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:32.920
<v Speaker 2>So communication is the key. So that's I think that's

1482
01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:35.720
<v Speaker 2>awesome that you're you're talking about post Hurricane Helene and

1483
01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:38.279
<v Speaker 2>mesh tastic. That's great because that was one of the

1484
01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:40.880
<v Speaker 2>topics we talked about with the guys out there in

1485
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:43.399
<v Speaker 2>that area after the fact, and I think it's I

1486
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:46.479
<v Speaker 2>think it's a very good thing. You called that Garth,

1487
01:16:46.520 --> 01:16:49.479
<v Speaker 2>You called that that solar system behind you. Would you

1488
01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:50.039
<v Speaker 2>call it again?

1489
01:16:51.279 --> 01:16:53.439
<v Speaker 5>They're just solar No, I don't. They don't have a

1490
01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:55.520
<v Speaker 5>fantastic name or anything.

1491
01:16:55.600 --> 01:16:58.520
<v Speaker 7>But who makes it.

1492
01:16:57.640 --> 01:16:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Me and you make it? Okay?

1493
01:17:00.039 --> 01:17:02.439
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, So if you go to Garth VH dot com,

1494
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:04.079
<v Speaker 6>you'll you'll get to my empsy store.

1495
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:06.319
<v Speaker 5>We're they're for sale.

1496
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh I know, Oh, I know, Okay, you are yeah, yeah, no,

1497
01:17:11.960 --> 01:17:14.119
<v Speaker 2>I know. Yeah. I bought one of your one of

1498
01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:18.680
<v Speaker 2>the little notes, and it I had it setting outside

1499
01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:20.119
<v Speaker 2>for like three months and it was fine, and then

1500
01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:22.760
<v Speaker 2>it developed a leak, and it leaked and ruined the border.

1501
01:17:22.840 --> 01:17:24.880
<v Speaker 3>I have a question here, I've seen in the check.

1502
01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:26.840
<v Speaker 2>So I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm gonna hit you up, Garth.

1503
01:17:27.119 --> 01:17:30.960
<v Speaker 3>Go ahead, Frank, what is a mestastic solution?

1504
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:32.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1505
01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:33.640
<v Speaker 2>I saw that a couple of times too. I'm wondering

1506
01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:34.279
<v Speaker 2>that myself.

1507
01:17:36.319 --> 01:17:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Who wants to tackle that? I can't entertain you.

1508
01:17:40.039 --> 01:17:44.520
<v Speaker 7>Let me take this one, so so meshtastic. We are

1509
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:48.720
<v Speaker 7>an open source project, right we we're a collective of people.

1510
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:53.439
<v Speaker 7>Last time I checked, and this was about three weeks ago,

1511
01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:57.399
<v Speaker 7>I look at numbers, uh, five hundred and thirty people

1512
01:17:57.560 --> 01:18:02.159
<v Speaker 7>have contributed to this project. It is in incredible worldwide effort.

1513
01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:07.359
<v Speaker 7>And you know, of these three hundred and fifty, there's

1514
01:18:07.479 --> 01:18:11.560
<v Speaker 7>about fifteen people who are responsible for ninety five percent

1515
01:18:11.680 --> 01:18:14.239
<v Speaker 7>of the work. Those are the Those are people who

1516
01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:18.720
<v Speaker 7>are we call the project leads, the project admins. We

1517
01:18:18.760 --> 01:18:21.800
<v Speaker 7>are the people who not only contribute the code, but

1518
01:18:22.039 --> 01:18:25.520
<v Speaker 7>you know, keep the systems up and running for us.

1519
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:29.039
<v Speaker 7>This has almost turned into a full time job, right.

1520
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:35.199
<v Speaker 7>We all jobs on are imagined, but we're supporting you know,

1521
01:18:37.239 --> 01:18:41.239
<v Speaker 7>numbers forty thousand new devices per month coming up on

1522
01:18:41.279 --> 01:18:49.479
<v Speaker 7>our network, right, actually ridiculous, And we've we've seen manufacturers

1523
01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:53.680
<v Speaker 7>are actually making money on Meshtastic, right, assemblers are making money.

1524
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:57.640
<v Speaker 7>Fantastic And yet we're spending a lot of time on

1525
01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:01.760
<v Speaker 7>this project, and we have families to feed as well, right,

1526
01:19:02.039 --> 01:19:05.600
<v Speaker 7>And so Fantastic Solutions is a way for us to

1527
01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:09.199
<v Speaker 7>explore ways so we can take this thing which is

1528
01:19:09.199 --> 01:19:13.600
<v Speaker 7>a hobby and actually be able to focus ourselves fully

1529
01:19:13.640 --> 01:19:15.560
<v Speaker 7>on it. And we want to do it in a

1530
01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:18.960
<v Speaker 7>way where we're adding value to the open source project, right,

1531
01:19:19.199 --> 01:19:22.279
<v Speaker 7>not taking anything away because we are open source for us, right,

1532
01:19:22.600 --> 01:19:27.920
<v Speaker 7>this is our passion, and we have discussions with many

1533
01:19:27.920 --> 01:19:31.720
<v Speaker 7>of the manufacturers out there. We're in negotiations right now,

1534
01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:36.880
<v Speaker 7>and the support we're getting is absolutely absolutely fabulous, right,

1535
01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:40.960
<v Speaker 7>So excellent in Chorge for you. We're trying to turn

1536
01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:43.520
<v Speaker 7>our hobby into something which we can feed our family.

1537
01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:47.079
<v Speaker 2>That's what we're doing here, right, Yeah, capitalism baby, So

1538
01:19:47.159 --> 01:19:51.520
<v Speaker 2>it's a good thing. Garth, please please, I have if

1539
01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I dug through my email I could find it. Give

1540
01:19:53.760 --> 01:19:55.800
<v Speaker 2>me the link to your Etsy store please in the

1541
01:19:55.880 --> 01:19:57.000
<v Speaker 2>chat in the zoom chat.

1542
01:19:59.000 --> 01:20:03.760
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, I've bought a past GitHub link.

1543
01:20:04.359 --> 01:20:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, correct, that's a GitHub thing.

1544
01:20:08.600 --> 01:20:10.600
<v Speaker 3>So jam people were.

1545
01:20:13.039 --> 01:20:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Jam wanted me to share the link to the mesh

1546
01:20:15.119 --> 01:20:17.479
<v Speaker 2>tastic YouTube channel. I'm gonna put that in the chat

1547
01:20:17.560 --> 01:20:23.640
<v Speaker 2>right now. You guys, go check that out Garth v

1548
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:28.159
<v Speaker 2>h dot com. Does that take you too? Yeah? Okay,

1549
01:20:28.479 --> 01:20:30.239
<v Speaker 2>So I bought a couple of notes from Garth a

1550
01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:33.159
<v Speaker 2>while back, and Garth I didn't realize that we Honestly,

1551
01:20:33.159 --> 01:20:37.279
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize that was the same dude, So cool man, uh,

1552
01:20:37.319 --> 01:20:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I did? I bought some When I first got into Meshtastic,

1553
01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I was poking around Etsy. James at quirky q RP.

1554
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:47.119
<v Speaker 2>He has an Etsy store, so I poke around his

1555
01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:49.600
<v Speaker 2>story all the time. Ham Radio stuff doesn't have anything

1556
01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:52.600
<v Speaker 2>to do with meshtastic. But but I found some Metsy

1557
01:20:52.640 --> 01:20:55.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff about mestastic nodes and I bought a couple of

1558
01:20:55.640 --> 01:20:57.439
<v Speaker 2>your nose and and they've been they've been pretty good

1559
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>so far. So so go check out Garth's Etsy channel

1560
01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:07.159
<v Speaker 2>there Garth vh dot com name okay cool?

1561
01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:09.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, okay, Yeah, I could get it to load.

1562
01:21:10.359 --> 01:21:12.439
<v Speaker 2>Uh, it doesn't have an HTTP in front of it,

1563
01:21:12.479 --> 01:21:14.880
<v Speaker 2>so let me do this this way.

1564
01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:16.960
<v Speaker 6>I just typed it out probably and I checked that

1565
01:21:17.079 --> 01:21:19.159
<v Speaker 6>it was it was redirecting, but I didn't.

1566
01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:22.359
<v Speaker 2>It's it's totally fun. I got it, got it, I

1567
01:21:22.399 --> 01:21:26.680
<v Speaker 2>got it. And now Garth is sold out. Yeah yeah,

1568
01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:28.800
<v Speaker 2>one thing. One thing about being on my channel. Boys,

1569
01:21:28.840 --> 01:21:30.640
<v Speaker 2>you will sell out. I'm sorry, is just the way

1570
01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>it is. So get to get get to manufacturing. That's

1571
01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:36.720
<v Speaker 2>all I gonna say. So, yeah, good, Okay, Frank, do

1572
01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:37.920
<v Speaker 2>we have any more questions?

1573
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:41.399
<v Speaker 3>Oh? My god? What can we talk about?

1574
01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I have a everything? Everything?

1575
01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.800
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

1576
01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:47.359
<v Speaker 2>I like, we didn't we did not. We did not

1577
01:21:47.399 --> 01:21:49.479
<v Speaker 2>get through half of the questions that Robert sent or

1578
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:51.920
<v Speaker 2>the topics that Robert sent me. But all that and

1579
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:54.079
<v Speaker 2>we've been going for an hour and twenty minutes. All

1580
01:21:54.119 --> 01:21:55.960
<v Speaker 2>that means is I need to bring you guys back on.

1581
01:21:56.239 --> 01:21:58.479
<v Speaker 2>So we'll do that. Well, I'll email you after this

1582
01:21:58.520 --> 01:21:59.399
<v Speaker 2>is over. Go ahead.

1583
01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:03.960
<v Speaker 3>Frank Paul is asking, uh, what news is on the

1584
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:08.640
<v Speaker 3>ATAC and mesh.

1585
01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:12.000
<v Speaker 6>Uh So A guy named Nick in Florida has written

1586
01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:15.880
<v Speaker 6>a fantastic a TAC plug in which has really made

1587
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:20.560
<v Speaker 6>using a TAC with Android. Tactical Awareness Kit is a

1588
01:22:20.920 --> 01:22:26.680
<v Speaker 6>US government made tactical software that is being used being

1589
01:22:26.760 --> 01:22:31.239
<v Speaker 6>used extensively by uh SAR and police teams in the

1590
01:22:31.399 --> 01:22:35.560
<v Speaker 6>US and METASTA. It is kind of IP heavy at

1591
01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:38.920
<v Speaker 6>its core, so it's expecting that you have cellular service

1592
01:22:39.159 --> 01:22:42.600
<v Speaker 6>UH and Mestasta can either use the plug in and

1593
01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:47.119
<v Speaker 6>you can then message and provide have it uses the

1594
01:22:47.199 --> 01:22:48.439
<v Speaker 6>phone for location.

1595
01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:49.359
<v Speaker 7>UH.

1596
01:22:49.520 --> 01:22:52.319
<v Speaker 6>Our GPS is are great, but your phone GPS is

1597
01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:57.119
<v Speaker 6>better steel band, it has the extra it has the

1598
01:22:57.159 --> 01:23:00.800
<v Speaker 6>extra location information from cell towers, all of that. So

1599
01:23:01.239 --> 01:23:04.560
<v Speaker 6>for really precise location stuff, your phone is really a

1600
01:23:04.600 --> 01:23:08.119
<v Speaker 6>great tool. And so we have a Mestastic plugin for

1601
01:23:08.199 --> 01:23:12.119
<v Speaker 6>attack and then we have a role called the attack

1602
01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:16.399
<v Speaker 6>Tracker role. UH So within attack you can have devices

1603
01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:21.079
<v Speaker 6>that are purely to track the location of a vehicle,

1604
01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:25.399
<v Speaker 6>an animal, whatever it is, a person and so you

1605
01:23:25.439 --> 01:23:28.399
<v Speaker 6>can use that role and that will use the GPS

1606
01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:32.520
<v Speaker 6>on the Mestastic device. And then I think there are

1607
01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:35.680
<v Speaker 6>there's a number of tax servers, and I think the

1608
01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:40.399
<v Speaker 6>integration from those servers has allowed for Meshtastic to be

1609
01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:45.800
<v Speaker 6>available in eye TAC, which is the Apple version. One

1610
01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:48.039
<v Speaker 6>of the reasons that I and these are these are

1611
01:23:48.079 --> 01:23:50.399
<v Speaker 6>kind of built by government contractors and stuff, so the

1612
01:23:50.479 --> 01:23:53.079
<v Speaker 6>level of complexity and set up and stuff can can

1613
01:23:53.119 --> 01:23:57.960
<v Speaker 6>be kind of intent sometimes. But the Eye Tech tools

1614
01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:01.359
<v Speaker 6>were built partially because has really good.

1615
01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:07.000
<v Speaker 5>Three D mapping stuff and so more buildings and urban stuff.

1616
01:24:07.079 --> 01:24:11.840
<v Speaker 6>The the Apple Apple mapping tools are really fantastic, and

1617
01:24:11.920 --> 01:24:14.039
<v Speaker 6>so I TAC was built to kind of helps our

1618
01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:19.119
<v Speaker 6>teams in the US specifically check check the website to

1619
01:24:19.159 --> 01:24:21.520
<v Speaker 6>make sure using these is legal in your country, I

1620
01:24:21.560 --> 01:24:22.039
<v Speaker 6>would say.

1621
01:24:23.720 --> 01:24:29.039
<v Speaker 2>And I met a guy at mesh Con at Spec

1622
01:24:29.119 --> 01:24:33.319
<v Speaker 2>five who claims he is an a TAC expert, so

1623
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:34.880
<v Speaker 2>I've asked him to come on the channel. We're going

1624
01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:36.640
<v Speaker 2>to be doing a live stream about that soon.

1625
01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:37.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm very tech.

1626
01:24:38.039 --> 01:24:41.720
<v Speaker 4>I'm just saying, man, I went to install ATAG very

1627
01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:44.000
<v Speaker 4>early in my mestastic career, and I pull up the

1628
01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:46.600
<v Speaker 4>Android app to install it, and it's like from the

1629
01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:49.520
<v Speaker 4>US government and here's all the permissions and it's like

1630
01:24:49.640 --> 01:24:54.159
<v Speaker 4>every possible permission on Android that app once and I'm like, nope, nope,

1631
01:24:54.159 --> 01:24:55.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to get bad.

1632
01:24:55.439 --> 01:24:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know what, you know, that's why I have

1633
01:24:57.439 --> 01:25:01.840
<v Speaker 2>about seven I'm not joking. Android device yeah, so yeah, yeah,

1634
01:25:01.840 --> 01:25:03.520
<v Speaker 2>don't put it on your main device, just put it

1635
01:25:03.560 --> 01:25:06.600
<v Speaker 2>on something else. So yeah, attack is a cool it's

1636
01:25:06.640 --> 01:25:10.119
<v Speaker 2>a cool application. It does a lot of stuff. But yes,

1637
01:25:10.199 --> 01:25:11.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm with you on that, Jonathan.

1638
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:13.920
<v Speaker 3>I mean, well, yeah, I'm talking about the government. They

1639
01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:16.399
<v Speaker 3>will allow you to give you pages or for us

1640
01:25:16.439 --> 01:25:18.920
<v Speaker 3>to give them pages and pages of set up documents

1641
01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:21.159
<v Speaker 3>that big, and they will accept it as long as

1642
01:25:21.159 --> 01:25:21.840
<v Speaker 3>everything's started.

1643
01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:24.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's it's death by PowerPoint, except it's death.

1644
01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:27.399
<v Speaker 2>It's death by documentation with the USK.

1645
01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:29.720
<v Speaker 3>As long as it's documented and how to get it

1646
01:25:29.760 --> 01:25:33.479
<v Speaker 3>to work, then they will accept it. But anyways, here's

1647
01:25:33.479 --> 01:25:36.279
<v Speaker 3>the question that you asked right down earlier, and I

1648
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:40.600
<v Speaker 3>do like it. Trey is asking make sure to ask

1649
01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:44.159
<v Speaker 3>or talk about clients versus router nodes why most people

1650
01:25:44.199 --> 01:25:46.239
<v Speaker 3>should not use router mode.

1651
01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:53.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so, so there's there's three options. Correct me if

1652
01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:55.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm wrong. There's three options. When you're going to to

1653
01:25:55.800 --> 01:25:59.199
<v Speaker 2>there's two router and client, or there's there's router, there's

1654
01:25:59.279 --> 01:26:04.479
<v Speaker 2>repeater in the client. You're right, Okay, we got so

1655
01:26:05.960 --> 01:26:10.119
<v Speaker 2>the the default mode is is client and then there's

1656
01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:12.760
<v Speaker 2>router and repeater. I think so.

1657
01:26:12.720 --> 01:26:15.000
<v Speaker 4>There's there's a there's a bunch more than that. Actually,

1658
01:26:15.039 --> 01:26:18.119
<v Speaker 4>so there's client mute, there's client hidden, there's tracker, there's

1659
01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:21.920
<v Speaker 4>lost and found. But most people want to just use

1660
01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:25.439
<v Speaker 4>client because when you when you say I'm a router,

1661
01:26:25.760 --> 01:26:29.439
<v Speaker 4>what what you're saying is I am one hundred foot

1662
01:26:29.479 --> 01:26:32.479
<v Speaker 4>in the air. That's really what router says. That is

1663
01:26:32.720 --> 01:26:35.039
<v Speaker 4>I am I am the node that has the best

1664
01:26:35.680 --> 01:26:39.119
<v Speaker 4>signal to noise ratio, like in the entire town, and

1665
01:26:39.159 --> 01:26:41.199
<v Speaker 4>so I want all of the traffic to go through me.

1666
01:26:41.640 --> 01:26:43.359
<v Speaker 4>And so if you put a node on top of

1667
01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:46.039
<v Speaker 4>your car and you set that, your card node will

1668
01:26:46.079 --> 01:26:48.600
<v Speaker 4>then try to route all that traffic, but it's not

1669
01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:49.760
<v Speaker 4>actually in a good place to do.

1670
01:26:49.880 --> 01:26:53.560
<v Speaker 2>It's not a router though. Okay, yeah, so a repeat

1671
01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:57.600
<v Speaker 2>So but a router has a router of courts itself,

1672
01:26:57.640 --> 01:26:59.680
<v Speaker 2>but a repeater does not. Is that correct?

1673
01:27:01.079 --> 01:27:05.199
<v Speaker 6>Repeter has two repeater has two of our modules in it.

1674
01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:05.640
<v Speaker 5>Period.

1675
01:27:05.680 --> 01:27:08.880
<v Speaker 6>It has the routing module which sends messages around, and

1676
01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:11.640
<v Speaker 6>then the admin module, so you can potentially do some

1677
01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:14.600
<v Speaker 6>administration of settings, but it does not have any of

1678
01:27:14.640 --> 01:27:17.159
<v Speaker 6>the other stuff. So it's just a repeater. And when

1679
01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:19.520
<v Speaker 6>you say it's not and it's not really on your mesh. Right,

1680
01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:20.800
<v Speaker 6>you won't sit it in the phone app.

1681
01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you won't see it, right, it's just repeating traffic. Yes, yeah,

1682
01:27:25.039 --> 01:27:25.760
<v Speaker 2>it's invisible.

1683
01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1684
01:27:26.039 --> 01:27:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So so when should so? So people should use

1685
01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:32.039
<v Speaker 2>router if it's on a very tall location.

1686
01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:35.600
<v Speaker 6>We're saying mountain right now, we're saying you use a

1687
01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:39.840
<v Speaker 6>you don't use a router on the top of your house.

1688
01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:43.359
<v Speaker 4>Or so if you if you're like me and you

1689
01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:45.720
<v Speaker 4>you've talked to the guy that owns the grain elevator

1690
01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:47.600
<v Speaker 4>into town to let you put a note up there,

1691
01:27:47.840 --> 01:27:50.000
<v Speaker 4>you can sit that one to router. But if it's

1692
01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:51.760
<v Speaker 4>just the top of your house, it probably doesn't need

1693
01:27:51.760 --> 01:27:52.319
<v Speaker 4>to be in router.

1694
01:27:52.960 --> 01:27:55.680
<v Speaker 2>So router should be So the top of your house

1695
01:27:55.720 --> 01:27:58.319
<v Speaker 2>should be a clienter or a Peter then pliant client

1696
01:27:58.640 --> 01:27:59.680
<v Speaker 2>a client okay.

1697
01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:02.479
<v Speaker 4>And there's one more of these roles that I really

1698
01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:04.840
<v Speaker 4>want to plug people on because I didn't know about

1699
01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:06.920
<v Speaker 4>it for the longest time, but it's really useful, and

1700
01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:09.600
<v Speaker 4>that's the client mute. And so if you're like me

1701
01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:12.520
<v Speaker 4>and you've got seventeen different nodes that you may have

1702
01:28:12.640 --> 01:28:15.119
<v Speaker 4>on at the same time, you don't want all of

1703
01:28:15.159 --> 01:28:18.920
<v Speaker 4>those repeating every packet. You really want one or maybe

1704
01:28:18.920 --> 01:28:21.960
<v Speaker 4>two in your house to be a client and you

1705
01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.199
<v Speaker 4>want the rest of them to be on client mute

1706
01:28:24.239 --> 01:28:26.960
<v Speaker 4>because you only really want one node repeating everything.

1707
01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:30.279
<v Speaker 2>So what does what does client mute do if I

1708
01:28:31.159 --> 01:28:33.920
<v Speaker 2>node to client mute, What does it do differently than

1709
01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:36.479
<v Speaker 2>a client router a client node?

1710
01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:39.960
<v Speaker 4>It does not repeat packets it sends, it receives, It

1711
01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:41.840
<v Speaker 4>does not rebroadcast any of them.

1712
01:28:42.159 --> 01:28:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it's a zero hot thing.

1713
01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:47.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, essentially you could look at it that way.

1714
01:28:47.199 --> 01:28:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay. Cool.

1715
01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:54.199
<v Speaker 4>And in fact, we've talked internally, like half jokingly about

1716
01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:58.439
<v Speaker 4>renaming client mute to client and then renaming client to

1717
01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:01.600
<v Speaker 4>client router because some many people were a little irritated

1718
01:29:01.640 --> 01:29:03.720
<v Speaker 4>at us for when client router went away because they

1719
01:29:03.760 --> 01:29:04.880
<v Speaker 4>didn't understand what it was doing.

1720
01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:08.279
<v Speaker 2>It's really wine, It's just it's terminology that you can

1721
01:29:08.399 --> 01:29:10.640
<v Speaker 2>really kind of. It's semantics is what it is.

1722
01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:13.560
<v Speaker 1>So we gotta we've got blog.

1723
01:29:14.439 --> 01:29:16.560
<v Speaker 4>Go ahead, we got a blog post about this. Actually

1724
01:29:16.600 --> 01:29:19.640
<v Speaker 4>it's fantastic dot org slash blog. And then it's I

1725
01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:21.680
<v Speaker 4>think it's actually the top one the latest one choosing

1726
01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:24.239
<v Speaker 4>the right device roll and it goes into the nitty

1727
01:29:24.239 --> 01:29:25.439
<v Speaker 4>gritty about all of these.

1728
01:29:26.079 --> 01:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I'm gonna yeah, uh, Garth put that in

1729
01:29:28.920 --> 01:29:31.399
<v Speaker 2>the chat here. I'm putting that in the live chat

1730
01:29:31.399 --> 01:29:34.359
<v Speaker 2>guys for the in the YouTube chat. Go check that out.

1731
01:29:34.520 --> 01:29:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Mesh tastic dot or port slash blog por slash Choosing

1732
01:29:37.840 --> 01:29:40.880
<v Speaker 2>the right device roll, right device.

1733
01:29:40.680 --> 01:29:45.079
<v Speaker 7>Role, goodret the device when you select the device. Uh,

1734
01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:47.960
<v Speaker 7>if you pick router and you literally are not on

1735
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:49.600
<v Speaker 7>the top of the mountain, if you literally are not

1736
01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:53.319
<v Speaker 7>on top of a tower, a grain elevator. Right, if

1737
01:29:53.319 --> 01:29:56.800
<v Speaker 7>you aren't absolutely best placed, you might have the best intentions,

1738
01:29:56.880 --> 01:30:00.039
<v Speaker 7>but you're actually degrading the network you're on. Right, I

1739
01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:03.479
<v Speaker 7>really want to highright this. Right. If you like this

1740
01:30:04.479 --> 01:30:07.119
<v Speaker 7>and you're not the absolute best of the best, you

1741
01:30:07.199 --> 01:30:09.920
<v Speaker 7>have just harmed that network flat out.

1742
01:30:10.560 --> 01:30:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, because you're but if you're the only one, if

1743
01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:16.439
<v Speaker 2>you're the only one in that area, then you'd be

1744
01:30:16.439 --> 01:30:17.520
<v Speaker 2>okay with that, right.

1745
01:30:18.600 --> 01:30:22.359
<v Speaker 7>If you're the one who set up and managed that network, right,

1746
01:30:22.520 --> 01:30:23.399
<v Speaker 7>do whatever you want?

1747
01:30:24.039 --> 01:30:26.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, if you want to all.

1748
01:30:26.920 --> 01:30:30.319
<v Speaker 7>Play nice, you're you're on a public group. You're part

1749
01:30:30.359 --> 01:30:33.800
<v Speaker 7>of the the you think of the community first before

1750
01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:34.239
<v Speaker 7>you think of.

1751
01:30:34.199 --> 01:30:36.680
<v Speaker 4>Yourself and the reason why it harms the network. So

1752
01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:38.560
<v Speaker 4>let's dive into just for a minute, the nitty gritty

1753
01:30:38.560 --> 01:30:41.640
<v Speaker 4>of the way that the flood routing works is if

1754
01:30:41.720 --> 01:30:44.520
<v Speaker 4>I hear a packet, I am going to set like

1755
01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:46.920
<v Speaker 4>a random time er just a few milliseconds, and if

1756
01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:49.640
<v Speaker 4>nobody else repeats it, I will repeat that packet. If

1757
01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:52.640
<v Speaker 4>I hear somebody else repeat it, then I figure my

1758
01:30:52.760 --> 01:30:54.880
<v Speaker 4>device doesn't have to repeat it, so it's not going

1759
01:30:54.920 --> 01:30:58.159
<v Speaker 4>to repeat it. What the router role does is it

1760
01:30:58.239 --> 01:31:00.560
<v Speaker 4>minimizes what that random time is going to be so

1761
01:31:00.600 --> 01:31:03.319
<v Speaker 4>that the router by default is going to repeat it first.

1762
01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.199
<v Speaker 4>But if the router is not in a good spot,

1763
01:31:06.479 --> 01:31:09.159
<v Speaker 4>then it may repeat it before the one that actually

1764
01:31:09.239 --> 01:31:11.960
<v Speaker 4>should be does repeat. And therefore, you know, the router

1765
01:31:12.039 --> 01:31:15.680
<v Speaker 4>that's actually up on top of the mountain doesn't because

1766
01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:18.479
<v Speaker 4>it's now hearded on the airwaves twice. So that's why

1767
01:31:18.520 --> 01:31:21.640
<v Speaker 4>you can actually literally really harm you can really hurt

1768
01:31:21.640 --> 01:31:24.680
<v Speaker 4>your your messhes spread as far as being able to

1769
01:31:24.720 --> 01:31:25.359
<v Speaker 4>get packags out.

1770
01:31:26.000 --> 01:31:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha?

1771
01:31:26.680 --> 01:31:27.119
<v Speaker 3>Interesting?

1772
01:31:27.159 --> 01:31:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, makes sense? Makes sense? Okay, good?

1773
01:31:31.399 --> 01:31:31.720
<v Speaker 4>All right?

1774
01:31:31.720 --> 01:31:32.640
<v Speaker 2>What else Frank.

1775
01:31:33.039 --> 01:31:37.720
<v Speaker 3>Jeff is asking can there be priority for emergency messages

1776
01:31:37.840 --> 01:31:42.000
<v Speaker 3>versus non emergency messages allow for a high priority to

1777
01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:48.560
<v Speaker 3>pass during when there's a a bunch of data on

1778
01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:50.680
<v Speaker 3>their congestion. That's the word of congestion.

1779
01:31:51.000 --> 01:31:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Yay.

1780
01:31:53.359 --> 01:31:56.119
<v Speaker 7>You need to ask yourself what network are you actually on?

1781
01:31:56.479 --> 01:32:01.960
<v Speaker 7>If you're on a public network of our defaults, it's

1782
01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:05.640
<v Speaker 7>going to be so congested that used for an emergency

1783
01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:10.640
<v Speaker 7>emergency services, it can be difficult. Right in those cases,

1784
01:32:11.560 --> 01:32:15.520
<v Speaker 7>you really want is to have that emergency service provider

1785
01:32:15.960 --> 01:32:19.159
<v Speaker 7>have their own network. And with Mechetastic, it's really easy

1786
01:32:19.199 --> 01:32:21.920
<v Speaker 7>to have your own network. Right. If you have your

1787
01:32:21.920 --> 01:32:26.159
<v Speaker 7>own network, you've now carved out a portion of the

1788
01:32:26.680 --> 01:32:29.960
<v Speaker 7>band just for you, just through through the cryptography. Right,

1789
01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:32.000
<v Speaker 7>So you've now set this up. You can set it

1790
01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:33.840
<v Speaker 7>up ahead of time. You can set it up, you know,

1791
01:32:34.079 --> 01:32:37.239
<v Speaker 7>months ahead. We're talking to this couple of cities doing this.

1792
01:32:38.399 --> 01:32:42.319
<v Speaker 7>We're talking to companies actually creating these disaster preparedness kits.

1793
01:32:43.359 --> 01:32:46.720
<v Speaker 7>All just set up their own network using Meghtastic. That's

1794
01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:51.399
<v Speaker 7>easily deployable and if you are in emergency situation, you

1795
01:32:51.479 --> 01:32:52.720
<v Speaker 7>are on your own network.

1796
01:32:52.960 --> 01:32:53.079
<v Speaker 5>Now.

1797
01:32:53.119 --> 01:32:56.039
<v Speaker 7>The other half of this question is what if I

1798
01:32:56.079 --> 01:33:01.920
<v Speaker 7>am having a in emergency on a you know, congested network, right,

1799
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:07.359
<v Speaker 7>your device will try to send out that message multiple times,

1800
01:33:07.800 --> 01:33:11.920
<v Speaker 7>and as the network gets more and more congested, our

1801
01:33:12.039 --> 01:33:17.600
<v Speaker 7>quality of service algorithms will start to reduce non priority messages. Right,

1802
01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:22.479
<v Speaker 7>So even if the network is congested, it's very likely

1803
01:33:22.479 --> 01:33:23.600
<v Speaker 7>your message will go through.

1804
01:33:24.359 --> 01:33:28.159
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So we do actually already have like priority of

1805
01:33:28.359 --> 01:33:31.159
<v Speaker 4>numbering at prior memoring system and text messages get the

1806
01:33:31.199 --> 01:33:33.880
<v Speaker 4>highest priority. So there are some things built in there

1807
01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:36.680
<v Speaker 4>to try to make those go through even if other

1808
01:33:36.720 --> 01:33:39.359
<v Speaker 4>things won't because of congestion. The other thing that we

1809
01:33:39.399 --> 01:33:41.560
<v Speaker 4>got to be careful and we've talked about some of

1810
01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:44.319
<v Speaker 4>these things internally, and we want to be careful about

1811
01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:49.439
<v Speaker 4>like pitching things directly for emergency use, because we can't

1812
01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:52.640
<v Speaker 4>make any guarantees about that, right, Like we're not garment.

1813
01:33:52.840 --> 01:33:56.399
<v Speaker 4>We're not the SOS radio where you hit the button

1814
01:33:56.760 --> 01:33:58.880
<v Speaker 4>and the paramedics are going to come get you because

1815
01:33:58.880 --> 01:34:01.079
<v Speaker 4>you paid for that. Like that's not like you can

1816
01:34:01.159 --> 01:34:04.199
<v Speaker 4>set that up yourself. You can have a system of

1817
01:34:04.239 --> 01:34:06.399
<v Speaker 4>buddies where your buddy is listing for it and it's

1818
01:34:06.399 --> 01:34:08.159
<v Speaker 4>going to come try to help you, but like that's

1819
01:34:08.199 --> 01:34:11.720
<v Speaker 4>not something that Meshtastic is in anywhere close to position

1820
01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:13.600
<v Speaker 4>to provide, and we want to make sure that everybody

1821
01:34:13.680 --> 01:34:14.960
<v Speaker 4>understands that, right.

1822
01:34:15.319 --> 01:34:18.520
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, And we are doing a lot more scaling algorithms,

1823
01:34:18.560 --> 01:34:21.159
<v Speaker 6>so if you're seeing a lot of nodes, then it

1824
01:34:21.239 --> 01:34:24.680
<v Speaker 6>will slow down the priority of some of the things

1825
01:34:24.720 --> 01:34:28.720
<v Speaker 6>that are less important and focus on routing, text, messages

1826
01:34:28.800 --> 01:34:29.840
<v Speaker 6>and discovery, right.

1827
01:34:30.159 --> 01:34:32.720
<v Speaker 4>And that a lot of that is stuff we learn

1828
01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:35.159
<v Speaker 4>from places like def Coon and ham Vention. We saw

1829
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:38.159
<v Speaker 4>where those you know, not as necessary messages were causing

1830
01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:41.279
<v Speaker 4>the problem, like neighbor info. Neighbor info has been terrible.

1831
01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:44.279
<v Speaker 4>It's the greatest idea. Hey, here's all the nodes that

1832
01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:46.640
<v Speaker 4>I am in direct connection with. Turns out it takes

1833
01:34:46.680 --> 01:34:49.119
<v Speaker 4>a lot of bites for sending that across the network

1834
01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:51.039
<v Speaker 4>every five minutes or ten minutes or whatever.

1835
01:34:53.600 --> 01:34:56.079
<v Speaker 2>All right, we've been going for about an hour and

1836
01:34:56.159 --> 01:34:58.039
<v Speaker 2>a half. This this has been great, guys, This has

1837
01:34:58.079 --> 01:35:01.119
<v Speaker 2>been great. I really appre shied you guys be on here.

1838
01:35:01.399 --> 01:35:03.399
<v Speaker 2>A lot of a lot of interaction in the chat,

1839
01:35:03.439 --> 01:35:05.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot of questions, a lot of people watching, So

1840
01:35:05.800 --> 01:35:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I really appreciate you guys being on here. I do

1841
01:35:08.039 --> 01:35:10.119
<v Speaker 2>want to bring you guys back on in January. We're

1842
01:35:10.119 --> 01:35:13.199
<v Speaker 2>going to talk about a custom firmware for HAMCS in

1843
01:35:13.279 --> 01:35:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Orlando in February. So we're going to do that. Let

1844
01:35:16.720 --> 01:35:19.399
<v Speaker 2>me switch this right here and go. I have one

1845
01:35:19.479 --> 01:35:23.359
<v Speaker 2>last question I want to ask you myself, Frank. Did

1846
01:35:23.359 --> 01:35:26.760
<v Speaker 2>we get to all the questions in the chat?

1847
01:35:26.880 --> 01:35:30.079
<v Speaker 3>I got a couple more, but for time wise, it's

1848
01:35:30.119 --> 01:35:31.199
<v Speaker 3>it's good. It's good.

1849
01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay. I want to ask and this maybe this is

1850
01:35:35.119 --> 01:35:38.279
<v Speaker 2>one of the questions in the chat. This is a

1851
01:35:38.279 --> 01:35:43.279
<v Speaker 2>great text messaging service right now, What if any plans

1852
01:35:43.319 --> 01:35:48.319
<v Speaker 2>are there for sending sending memes over meshtash So that'd

1853
01:35:48.359 --> 01:35:50.119
<v Speaker 2>be that'd be kind of cool. There's a thing in

1854
01:35:50.239 --> 01:35:54.039
<v Speaker 2>ham Radio called slow Scan TV that's basically sending memes

1855
01:35:54.159 --> 01:35:57.560
<v Speaker 2>over the air. It's really fun. But like, what kind

1856
01:35:57.560 --> 01:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>of expanded things are on the horizon or have been

1857
01:36:03.279 --> 01:36:07.359
<v Speaker 2>talked about besides just sending text messages, any kind of

1858
01:36:07.439 --> 01:36:12.279
<v Speaker 2>multimedia voice recorded messages that you can record and then

1859
01:36:12.359 --> 01:36:16.760
<v Speaker 2>hit send, or low res images or something like that.

1860
01:36:16.840 --> 01:36:19.920
<v Speaker 2>There's anything like that on the drawing board for you guys.

1861
01:36:20.279 --> 01:36:24.600
<v Speaker 7>So mash tastic we are a fully contributed driven organization,

1862
01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:27.319
<v Speaker 7>right we are open source. What we have in place

1863
01:36:27.439 --> 01:36:33.479
<v Speaker 7>now is a robust network transport layer, right, that's really

1864
01:36:33.479 --> 01:36:36.560
<v Speaker 7>what it is. What are the applications on top of

1865
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:38.840
<v Speaker 7>that is text messaging. One of the applications on top

1866
01:36:38.880 --> 01:36:42.800
<v Speaker 7>of that is sensor networks telemetry, one of the we

1867
01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:47.119
<v Speaker 7>have all these different applications. Someone has actually implemented codec

1868
01:36:47.199 --> 01:36:48.640
<v Speaker 7>to over mesh tastic.

1869
01:36:49.159 --> 01:36:51.279
<v Speaker 2>Really yes, oh.

1870
01:36:52.640 --> 01:36:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Though it only.

1871
01:36:53.800 --> 01:36:56.079
<v Speaker 7>Works on the two point four it does any more bandwidth,

1872
01:36:56.119 --> 01:36:57.079
<v Speaker 7>but it does work.

1873
01:36:56.960 --> 01:36:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Right, nice, very cool.

1874
01:36:59.399 --> 01:37:05.840
<v Speaker 7>Someone has has implemented the z modemuh file protocol on

1875
01:37:05.920 --> 01:37:09.079
<v Speaker 7>top of mesh tastic. There's a lot of things capable there.

1876
01:37:09.119 --> 01:37:11.119
<v Speaker 7>So if someone is it out there that wants to say,

1877
01:37:12.079 --> 01:37:16.239
<v Speaker 7>I want to integrate sending memes on the Android app,

1878
01:37:16.439 --> 01:37:19.000
<v Speaker 7>huff to garth, we'll figure out.

1879
01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:22.319
<v Speaker 3>How it sounds like mess tastes started to just become

1880
01:37:22.640 --> 01:37:25.159
<v Speaker 3>so ubiquitous. Is like, you can use it as a

1881
01:37:25.239 --> 01:37:29.000
<v Speaker 3>modem just for then once it becomes a modem data

1882
01:37:29.039 --> 01:37:30.079
<v Speaker 3>pass device.

1883
01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:33.279
<v Speaker 2>It's a communications tool. Just create a channel called hashtag

1884
01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:36.800
<v Speaker 2>memes and put all the nyos in there and just

1885
01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:39.199
<v Speaker 2>to leet those guys alone, and then the rest of

1886
01:37:39.279 --> 01:37:42.159
<v Speaker 2>us can communicate via long fast and whatnot. So it's cool.

1887
01:37:42.560 --> 01:37:45.399
<v Speaker 4>But something else so on this on this topic, something

1888
01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:47.439
<v Speaker 4>else that again people from our community have done, and

1889
01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:51.239
<v Speaker 4>there's several projects doing. This is both board systems. Several

1890
01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:53.439
<v Speaker 4>people have looked at fantastic and gone this is basically

1891
01:37:53.520 --> 01:37:55.680
<v Speaker 4>the old bulletin board system. And so we've got a

1892
01:37:55.680 --> 01:37:57.439
<v Speaker 4>couple of different projects for people are working on too

1893
01:37:57.520 --> 01:37:59.560
<v Speaker 4>and are making it work, and you know that's getting

1894
01:37:59.600 --> 01:38:01.039
<v Speaker 4>more sophistic game as time goes by.

1895
01:38:01.359 --> 01:38:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So there's a guy in the chat tonight called

1896
01:38:04.680 --> 01:38:07.319
<v Speaker 2>his name is Rob. He goes by Digital Rancher. He

1897
01:38:07.399 --> 01:38:13.640
<v Speaker 2>created a BBS for us at where were we maybe

1898
01:38:13.760 --> 01:38:17.279
<v Speaker 2>uh maybe Belton or something some local show, some local

1899
01:38:17.279 --> 01:38:23.359
<v Speaker 2>Henry system be a bulletin board system BBS bullet system.

1900
01:38:23.560 --> 01:38:29.239
<v Speaker 2>So I know, but I mean it's it's it's it

1901
01:38:29.319 --> 01:38:31.159
<v Speaker 2>was a it was a cool system to have on

1902
01:38:31.239 --> 01:38:35.279
<v Speaker 2>the on the meshchastics system. So it's it works. It's

1903
01:38:35.439 --> 01:38:37.800
<v Speaker 2>then there's new stuff and spect five is doing like

1904
01:38:38.159 --> 01:38:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Solitaire over mesh and uh yeah, like it's like Tic

1905
01:38:43.199 --> 01:38:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Tac they have a Tic Tac toe game and Solitaire

1906
01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:51.359
<v Speaker 2>and something. Yeah, like like little very simple games that

1907
01:38:51.399 --> 01:38:53.960
<v Speaker 2>you can play your like Words of Friends type thing

1908
01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:56.600
<v Speaker 2>over the mesh, so it's it's kind of neat there, but.

1909
01:38:57.520 --> 01:39:00.600
<v Speaker 6>And low bandwidth stuff like two of the things that

1910
01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:05.359
<v Speaker 6>I've worked on with Mestastic from a both graphical and

1911
01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:08.279
<v Speaker 6>low bandwidth thing is that we use so we convert

1912
01:39:08.319 --> 01:39:10.800
<v Speaker 6>your node number to a color, as I'm sure you've seen,

1913
01:39:11.439 --> 01:39:14.600
<v Speaker 6>and so each node has either on Android a little

1914
01:39:14.640 --> 01:39:17.520
<v Speaker 6>pill or on iOS a circle, and then within those

1915
01:39:18.119 --> 01:39:20.680
<v Speaker 6>you can set your short name to an emoji that's

1916
01:39:20.760 --> 01:39:24.079
<v Speaker 6>less than four characters. And on Android and iOS these

1917
01:39:24.119 --> 01:39:27.119
<v Speaker 6>emojis are very high resolution now, but they're a four

1918
01:39:27.119 --> 01:39:30.079
<v Speaker 6>by character and so that's a way that we can

1919
01:39:30.119 --> 01:39:33.840
<v Speaker 6>add a lot of graphical interest and memes and and

1920
01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:37.479
<v Speaker 6>fun stuff to both the name of your node and

1921
01:39:37.600 --> 01:39:42.439
<v Speaker 6>the short name which shows up in that small colored

1922
01:39:43.359 --> 01:39:47.479
<v Speaker 6>either pill or circle there, and you can have you know,

1923
01:39:47.760 --> 01:39:52.000
<v Speaker 6>it's it's efficient for the mesh and doesn't take up

1924
01:39:52.039 --> 01:39:54.800
<v Speaker 6>any extra space, right, And that's add some things. So

1925
01:39:54.840 --> 01:39:57.439
<v Speaker 6>there's lots of interesting stuff like that that you can

1926
01:39:57.520 --> 01:40:02.600
<v Speaker 6>do with little low bandwidth mesh with just numbers and emoji.

1927
01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:06.000
<v Speaker 6>There's four thousand plus emoji now, so there's there's a

1928
01:40:06.119 --> 01:40:07.000
<v Speaker 6>ton of options.

1929
01:40:07.039 --> 01:40:08.840
<v Speaker 2>So awesome.

1930
01:40:09.159 --> 01:40:11.199
<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to ask that question never.

1931
01:40:13.319 --> 01:40:13.800
<v Speaker 7>Ask it.

1932
01:40:14.399 --> 01:40:18.000
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, I'll ask you off stream, off stream, okay, okay,

1933
01:40:19.359 --> 01:40:24.079
<v Speaker 3>but I think that's awesome. E mooji is over mestastic.

1934
01:40:23.600 --> 01:40:27.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, totally yeah, especially if there's a

1935
01:40:27.439 --> 01:40:30.520
<v Speaker 2>middle finger in there, because I'm I don't.

1936
01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Know anything Nicode right.

1937
01:40:34.880 --> 01:40:39.840
<v Speaker 2>So Jonathan, JM and Garth thank you so much. This

1938
01:40:39.920 --> 01:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>has been awesome. This has been really really great. I

1939
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:46.319
<v Speaker 2>would love to get you guys back on maybe next month,

1940
01:40:46.359 --> 01:40:49.680
<v Speaker 2>but if not, then absolutely by January to just talk

1941
01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:51.680
<v Speaker 2>about the state of things we should set up in

1942
01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:55.600
<v Speaker 2>every other month thing. Just because mestastic is is constantly

1943
01:40:55.640 --> 01:41:00.560
<v Speaker 2>growing new firmware, new features, new nos and whatnot. I

1944
01:41:00.560 --> 01:41:03.239
<v Speaker 2>would love to, uh to get you guys back on

1945
01:41:03.479 --> 01:41:05.640
<v Speaker 2>constantly and just talk about this kind of stuff. Because

1946
01:41:05.640 --> 01:41:08.479
<v Speaker 2>we didn't touch the questions that Ben sent me. I

1947
01:41:08.479 --> 01:41:10.640
<v Speaker 2>think we went through like maybe a third of them tonight.

1948
01:41:10.760 --> 01:41:13.199
<v Speaker 3>So when you're gonna give me the reins and me

1949
01:41:13.239 --> 01:41:14.880
<v Speaker 3>and Jonathan will just geek out.

1950
01:41:19.479 --> 01:41:21.840
<v Speaker 2>You get dev guys that break everything. I don't want

1951
01:41:21.880 --> 01:41:24.359
<v Speaker 2>to give you that do that on your chiin.

1952
01:41:24.520 --> 01:41:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Dev guys will break everything. Ye who fixes your bugs?

1953
01:41:27.760 --> 01:41:32.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's just that's not you Frank, you can't.

1954
01:41:34.880 --> 01:41:37.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, hey, if you misspelled the same time every way,

1955
01:41:38.079 --> 01:41:39.039
<v Speaker 3>well I don't care.

1956
01:41:39.319 --> 01:41:40.439
<v Speaker 2>That's probably a good point.

1957
01:41:40.760 --> 01:41:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the programmers laugh about that one.

1958
01:41:44.039 --> 01:41:47.039
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, get us on in a month, because we'll be

1959
01:41:47.159 --> 01:41:50.439
<v Speaker 6>a month ahead of Chinese New Year. And when you

1960
01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:53.760
<v Speaker 6>do it January one, people can't get radios.

1961
01:41:53.319 --> 01:41:54.920
<v Speaker 1>By Yeah, that's true.

1962
01:41:54.960 --> 01:41:55.720
<v Speaker 3>But like the.

1963
01:41:56.159 --> 01:41:57.279
<v Speaker 5>China shut down.

1964
01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:04.760
<v Speaker 2>To two, well two weeks, it slows the way down. Yeah, yeah,

1965
01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:06.720
<v Speaker 2>it's two weeks. It's a two week Holladay. But then

1966
01:42:06.760 --> 01:42:10.479
<v Speaker 2>they're behind for a month after that because of catch up. Yeah. Okay,

1967
01:42:10.560 --> 01:42:12.720
<v Speaker 2>so so mid mid December.

1968
01:42:12.960 --> 01:42:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Sure, sure, okay, okay, good, you're on.

1969
01:42:16.319 --> 01:42:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I've been trading emails with Rob and you guys.

1970
01:42:22.239 --> 01:42:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Email me all three of you guys, email me k

1971
01:42:25.840 --> 01:42:28.600
<v Speaker 2>C five HBB at gmail dot com. Send me an

1972
01:42:28.640 --> 01:42:31.640
<v Speaker 2>email and I'll put the four of you plus Frank

1973
01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:34.159
<v Speaker 2>on on. We'll get an email chat going. I would

1974
01:42:34.159 --> 01:42:36.520
<v Speaker 2>love to get you guys back on this is there's

1975
01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:41.439
<v Speaker 2>so much information and we touched on ten percent of it.

1976
01:42:40.800 --> 01:42:45.119
<v Speaker 2>So seriously, it's it's like it's huge and and it's growing.

1977
01:42:45.199 --> 01:42:47.279
<v Speaker 2>It's constantly growing, like I said a minute ago. So

1978
01:42:47.319 --> 01:42:49.600
<v Speaker 2>it's I would love to do it like in every

1979
01:42:49.600 --> 01:42:51.479
<v Speaker 2>other month thing with this. This would be great. So

1980
01:42:51.479 --> 01:42:57.000
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you guys time tonight so awesome. Yeah, and

1981
01:42:57.199 --> 01:43:00.920
<v Speaker 2>uh that Jonathan and JM. You guys need to plan

1982
01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:03.960
<v Speaker 2>to come to Orlando in February for him casion.

1983
01:43:04.720 --> 01:43:08.239
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna be I'm going to be in Florida in

1984
01:43:08.319 --> 01:43:10.520
<v Speaker 4>February for a security conference actually, so I have to

1985
01:43:10.560 --> 01:43:11.840
<v Speaker 4>see if that lines up at all.

1986
01:43:11.920 --> 01:43:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Interesting, it's usually the weekend after Valentine's Day somewhere

1987
01:43:16.960 --> 01:43:19.479
<v Speaker 2>in there, like the third weekend something like that. So

1988
01:43:19.920 --> 01:43:24.560
<v Speaker 2>but if not, Dayton in I mean Spec five is

1989
01:43:24.560 --> 01:43:28.439
<v Speaker 2>talking too. Spec five wants to Uh He's like, hey,

1990
01:43:28.439 --> 01:43:30.079
<v Speaker 2>what what ham Fist should we go to? I'm like,

1991
01:43:30.079 --> 01:43:33.880
<v Speaker 2>go to Orlando, go to Dayton, Good Huntsville. So they

1992
01:43:33.920 --> 01:43:35.960
<v Speaker 2>wanted they want to go and actually set up a

1993
01:43:36.079 --> 01:43:39.960
<v Speaker 2>mesh tastic table at these shows, which is a great idea,

1994
01:43:40.079 --> 01:43:46.880
<v Speaker 2>by the pay, It's a fantastic ideas. Yeah, yeah, I

1995
01:43:46.880 --> 01:43:48.920
<v Speaker 2>can help. I can help you guys on a booth

1996
01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.199
<v Speaker 2>cost I can I can pitch in on that because yeah,

1997
01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:53.520
<v Speaker 2>that's that's a booth.

1998
01:43:53.760 --> 01:43:54.520
<v Speaker 5>Be wary.

1999
01:43:54.680 --> 01:43:57.159
<v Speaker 3>He will be there in story stuff all convention.

2000
01:43:57.800 --> 01:44:00.680
<v Speaker 2>No, I won't. No, I have a can't cited dayton

2001
01:44:00.720 --> 01:44:04.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't care about that. No, this story, the boots

2002
01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:07.560
<v Speaker 2>boot Yeah, the booths that dayton are kind of expensive,

2003
01:44:07.600 --> 01:44:10.000
<v Speaker 2>but it's well worth it because it's a huge audience

2004
01:44:11.279 --> 01:44:11.800
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

2005
01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

2006
01:44:13.199 --> 01:44:15.560
<v Speaker 2>So once again, guys, thank you for tonight. This has

2007
01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:19.359
<v Speaker 2>been great, excellent information. Really appreciate you all's time tonight,

2008
01:44:19.479 --> 01:44:22.079
<v Speaker 2>and we're gonna do this again. I'll email you guys

2009
01:44:23.119 --> 01:44:26.319
<v Speaker 2>this week, uh today, what Sunday? I email you guys

2010
01:44:26.319 --> 01:44:28.760
<v Speaker 2>next week and just say, hey, let's set something up

2011
01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:32.520
<v Speaker 2>for middle of December and do this against excellent, excellent

2012
01:44:32.760 --> 01:44:33.439
<v Speaker 2>topic tonight.

2013
01:44:34.680 --> 01:44:38.079
<v Speaker 1>All right, okay, appreciate it.

2014
01:44:37.680 --> 01:44:45.600
<v Speaker 7>All right, Mesh Harder is that what would says Harder? Yes, yes, yes.

2015
01:44:45.399 --> 01:44:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Hashtag hashtag Mesh Harder. Yes, that is a thing. Yeah

2016
01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:53.000
<v Speaker 2>it is now, it is now man.

2017
01:44:53.119 --> 01:44:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, good dude.

2018
01:44:55.760 --> 01:45:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Thanks guys, appreciate way wave. Goodbye, there we go. Got something, Oh, Frank,

2019
01:45:01.560 --> 01:45:03.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, Go ahead, Frank, Yeah, you want to talk

2020
01:45:03.720 --> 01:45:05.399
<v Speaker 2>about something, Go ahead real fast.

2021
01:45:05.920 --> 01:45:09.560
<v Speaker 3>I have certified and made ready the tank radio hoodies

2022
01:45:09.600 --> 01:45:13.560
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2023
01:45:14.399 --> 01:45:18.079
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2024
01:45:18.079 --> 01:45:22.079
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2025
01:45:22.159 --> 01:45:25.760
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2026
01:45:25.880 --> 01:45:30.840
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2027
01:45:31.720 --> 01:45:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Minor as well. So yeah, yep, go check that out.

2028
01:45:34.880 --> 01:45:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Great vinimateur radio dot com. Thanks guys, Okay later, see

2029
01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:41.439
<v Speaker 2>you guys. Yeah,