Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond.
Speaker 2: With Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so
Speaker 2: like say subscribe and rade it live Stock and met.
Speaker 1: On yesterday and listening watching limb always keep its watching.
Speaker 1: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James.
Speaker 3: Boobo Fay Bobo?
Speaker 2: Are you doing? Man?
Speaker 3: All right? What's up? Cliff?
Speaker 2: I been real busy. I haven't talked to you a
Speaker 2: little while. I mean, we got so many recordings done
Speaker 2: that we've taken like a week and a half off
Speaker 2: because people are out of town and stuff. Seems like
Speaker 2: it's been forever since I've heard you. My how you've grown.
Speaker 3: Thanks?
Speaker 2: Yeah, intellectually, Yeah, your voice must be three or four
Speaker 2: inches taller. It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I can't believe we lost another we lost another one.
Speaker 2: I know, we might as well just get that that
Speaker 2: bum out over with like at the top of the
Speaker 2: show here. Yeah, of course, Jane Goodall has passed away.
Speaker 2: That's a total bum out. Just an amazing woman in
Speaker 2: so many ways. I mean, I don't think I need
Speaker 2: to go over too much what she's done. But as
Speaker 2: far as primatology goes, and of course everybody knows that
Speaker 2: she was interested in the Sasquatch subject, and she thought
Speaker 2: thought that these things were out there. You know, I
Speaker 2: have her autograph. A good friend of mine kind of
Speaker 2: ran across her at an airport at one point and
Speaker 2: she signed us a thing for me and this is
Speaker 2: cliff something that something the effective. Maybe we discover the
Speaker 2: mystery still out there, I think is what she wrote,
Speaker 2: something that efect. I don't have it in front of me, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: but yeah, just just what a heartache. Just another another
Speaker 2: figure in the Bigfoot community dropping. I mean, because she's
Speaker 2: tangentially Bigfoot community, right, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: We claim her. She didn't known us claiming her. I
Speaker 3: don't think, because actually I told the story about when
Speaker 3: we were talking about doctor Meldren passing. Just I used
Speaker 3: the story of the Jane get All story with him,
Speaker 3: but I actually got to speak her kind of like well,
Speaker 3: I was on a speakerphone with Rimber rip life.
Speaker 2: I do remember Riplin'll never met him, but I remember him.
Speaker 3: He was in contact with her for years, like over
Speaker 3: the big Foot stuff, and then she also followed it.
Speaker 3: He also looked for the Ivory build woodpecker for like
Speaker 3: three years down to the swamps, and he had a
Speaker 3: couple of big Foot action things there. But yeah, she
Speaker 3: liked him, like because he was a He's a pretty
Speaker 3: classic character. I mean, he could little nuts have had
Speaker 3: a he was. He was funny, and he was funny,
Speaker 3: he was smart and and he said, yeah, he goes,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna you know, he said he knewer and I
Speaker 3: was like no, And he had like signed stuff or
Speaker 3: he had pictures with her and stuff, and then said yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: We talked, you know, a couple of times a year.
Speaker 3: And then he said, I'm gonna call her. You know.
Speaker 3: I said, dude, I got to hear this. And I said,
Speaker 3: I want to hear this, you know, big foot. So
Speaker 3: he goes, okay, and he called her and he talked
Speaker 3: to her for about like fifteen minutes something like that,
Speaker 3: and I got to chime in a little bit, you know,
Speaker 3: like I said, well, I said, you know, I just
Speaker 3: told her what I knew about some things, and she
Speaker 3: wanted She was she's always really interested in like the
Speaker 3: native perspective with the old like that, like what the
Speaker 3: what like you like their diet and that sort of
Speaker 3: things and any kind of breeding patterns, and she was
Speaker 3: interested in that. She wasn't you know, in like scary
Speaker 3: stories and stuff she wanted to know, like biological aspects
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 2: Very cool and a huge loss, you know, because she
Speaker 2: was such a great person that we could, as you said,
Speaker 2: claim it's like well good all things, that these things
Speaker 2: are probably real, Like why don't you you know that?
Speaker 2: That's basically I guess her use I guess in the
Speaker 2: communities like that. She was open minded enough, So why
Speaker 2: can't you, mister and missus skeptic?
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, she called jeffa she called She told
Speaker 3: Jeff she really admired him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and bind and Ogle as well, I believe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've seen pictures of both those gentlemen with her.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I took that picture of Meldrene with it,
Speaker 3: almost like should I take that picture?
Speaker 1: Listeners should go back and listen to the Doctor Meldren
Speaker 1: Tribute if they want to hear Bobo's awesome story about
Speaker 1: heckling Jane Goodall fans in line for a book signing
Speaker 1: or I guess it's speaking of him, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a book signing fall.
Speaker 3: I mean it was a speaking event followed by a
Speaker 3: book signing, and every person there got in line just
Speaker 3: to get to get something signed.
Speaker 1: It was amazing that she was still on tour and
Speaker 1: you know, going out and delivering lectures to the public.
Speaker 1: It sounds like that's she passed away in the midst
Speaker 1: of a series of scheduled dates to go do that.
Speaker 3: I heard her last interview. She was yeah, she was
Speaker 3: still She hadn't taken a day off. She worked right
Speaker 3: up till like the day she died. Wow.
Speaker 2: Meldrum too, actually yeah, And I mean he's obviously taken
Speaker 2: days off, he got weekends and stuff, but he was
Speaker 2: hoping to retire the next year.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's been a tragic couple of weeks a month or so,
Speaker 2: you know, with doctor Meldrum dropping and then of course
Speaker 2: Scott Violette dropping and now Jane Goodall checked out and
Speaker 2: U and actually you don't know, Bobs, but you remember
Speaker 2: my buddy Jeff from Santa Cruz.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he died.
Speaker 2: He died over this past weekend. He was younger than me. Dang. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the fourth person. And you know, I can't really
Speaker 2: say Jane Goodall's exactly in my sphere, you know, but
Speaker 2: kinda is, you know. That's and of course jeffa is
Speaker 2: very close so he just passed away. I gotta go
Speaker 2: down to Santa Cruz next weekend for the funeral. He
Speaker 2: lived on that wacky ranch down there outside of Sokel,
Speaker 2: and I think they had sasquatches. But Jeff is such
Speaker 2: a weird guy, you know. He like he said no, no, no,
Speaker 2: there was something there. He thought that he had sadys, sadyrs.
Speaker 2: He was just such a weird, weird guy. He told
Speaker 2: me some crazy stories about that ranch. And he lived
Speaker 2: right on Sokel Creek on this weird Junkyard property is
Speaker 2: like five long, skinny acres and he lived at the
Speaker 2: very very bottom in this ranshackle converted garage that was
Speaker 2: certainly not permitted for, you know, any life to be
Speaker 2: in there, you know, like maybe chickens or something. But
Speaker 2: like he was living in there with his buddy Dan
Speaker 2: and Ben and some other people, and they had crazy
Speaker 2: I had crazy stuff happened down there. Like I remember
Speaker 2: one night I was down there, and it is a
Speaker 2: long time ago. This is probably early nineties or something
Speaker 2: where hang it out in the I think it's probably
Speaker 2: summer because I think the window or door was opened
Speaker 2: or something and we heard goats and like coming from
Speaker 2: the creek and there's no way goats where I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess goats could have gotten loose, but like there
Speaker 2: was a goat down townd like, which is why he
Speaker 2: thought that there were satyrs around, because he'd hear it often.
Speaker 2: One time they were coming. Like there was like an
Speaker 2: upper property, and I'm the guy who owned this place.
Speaker 2: He's long passed away. He was old when I when
Speaker 2: I was going down there in the nineties, his name
Speaker 2: was Jerry, and there were probably three or four, I
Speaker 2: guess buildings for lack of a better term on the
Speaker 2: upper property, although some of them were probably trailers. But
Speaker 2: you couldn't see him anymore because the guy was a
Speaker 2: junk collector, like this insane hoarder. Anything that may have
Speaker 2: a use in the future he would take and then
Speaker 2: like he had just put it on the property somewhere.
Speaker 2: And you do that for a few decades and you
Speaker 2: don't you don't see your house anymore. And Jeff lived
Speaker 2: Jeff and Dan and those guys are Ben Whoever's roommate
Speaker 2: at the time. They lived at the very bottom of
Speaker 2: the property. So we had to drive through this like
Speaker 2: really tight one lane road with a wall of debris.
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: It was not refuse. I don't want to give the
Speaker 2: idea that it was like you know, flies buzzing around
Speaker 2: in piles of you know, crap and food waste. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like that. It was like like scrap metal and
Speaker 2: buckets and old cars and tires and things that might
Speaker 2: have a use someday. And there was a legit fifteen
Speaker 2: foot wall on either side of this road all the
Speaker 2: way down to the bottom. But they were driving down
Speaker 2: one night, and of course Jeff, being a wacky guy,
Speaker 2: he describes I think he saw a sasquatch because whatever
Speaker 2: this was, it moved. It didn't bob its head at all.
Speaker 2: It was a dark shadow seven to eight feet tall.
Speaker 2: It just basically stepped over the barbed wire fence on
Speaker 2: the right hand side of the road from the Persimmon
Speaker 2: orchard and then floated across the road and then down
Speaker 2: into Sokel Creek. And I go, yeap, that's a sasquatches. Now, now,
Speaker 2: the way it moved, it had to be a spirit. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, what about a compliant gate And I described
Speaker 2: how sasquatch. No, No, not the way this move, man, No,
Speaker 2: it was just so smooth, like there's no head bob.
Speaker 2: It just like practically floated across the road. And it's like, dude,
Speaker 2: you probably saw a sasquatch. And like another dude named
Speaker 2: Dan used to live there. And again this weird ramshackle,
Speaker 2: you know, garage that they lived in. It had a
Speaker 2: triangular sort of roof on it, you know, as many
Speaker 2: places do, but that that top triangle part was a window,
Speaker 2: and he remembers being in his room and they would
Speaker 2: have quote unquote the tall man would come by every
Speaker 2: once in a while and then look in their windows,
Speaker 2: like that tall, tall window. The thing had to be
Speaker 2: like eight or ten feet off the ground, and the
Speaker 2: tall man would come and look in the windows sometimes.
Speaker 2: And then another time he heard somebody or something like
Speaker 2: climb up the broken tractor that was leaning against the
Speaker 2: building that they lived in and went on the roof
Speaker 2: and ran around for a while and then jumped off
Speaker 2: and ran away. Just crazy crazy stuff would happen there.
Speaker 2: And of course they knew Mike Rugg. They told Mike
Speaker 2: about all that stuff. But you know, Jeff's version of
Speaker 2: it was always very very weird, like you know, like, well,
Speaker 2: the UFO landed in the field over there, and then
Speaker 2: this happened, and just like crazy wacky, wacky stories all
Speaker 2: the time. But I think they'd probably just had a
Speaker 2: local sasquatch.
Speaker 3: I've already had that one about like the giant orb,
Speaker 3: like the UFO then coming over the shed.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, then they had the crossroads down there where
Speaker 2: that they came face to face with with Pan, you know,
Speaker 2: the satyr Pan at one time. There's Yeah, he was
Speaker 2: a really really weird guy and one of my best friends.
Speaker 2: I just love him tremendously and he'll be missed deeply too.
Speaker 2: So got I got to go to a funeral next week,
Speaker 2: But Jeff himself told me that, you know, we're at
Speaker 2: the age where we go to a lot more funerals
Speaker 2: and weddings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was just thinking that day.
Speaker 1: Would it be insensitive to say that I hope your
Speaker 1: trip down their pans out.
Speaker 2: That's the kind of thing he would appreciate.
Speaker 1: You just don't get too many Pan references on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Not enough. No, Yeah, I was out in New York
Speaker 2: this past weekend as well.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, how'd that go?
Speaker 2: It was all right? It was right first year event,
Speaker 2: inaugural event for the New York big Foot Conference. It
Speaker 2: was a lot of fun because I flew out two
Speaker 2: days early and hung out with John Wilke from Squatshachusetts
Speaker 2: for a couple of days.
Speaker 3: I blamed you for the Red Sox loss. I said, due,
Speaker 3: they lost to the Yankees because Clif didn't cheer hard enough.
Speaker 3: It's all his fault. Go sports.
Speaker 2: We watched it, though, we watched it.
Speaker 3: Not bad, right, they lost, so he gets he takes
Speaker 3: it so harder they lose.
Speaker 2: He was pretty mad. He was pretty mad, especially I
Speaker 2: guess Boston and Yankees apparently have a rivalry. Oh dude,
Speaker 2: you knew about this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, I'm a Red Talx fan. Uh go sports.
Speaker 3: Speaking of sports, I had the worst day to day
Speaker 3: last night. I freaking listened. I asked a couple of
Speaker 3: my buddies that are fantasy football, like you know, they
Speaker 3: played like multiple tons of leagues and teams and they
Speaker 3: studied like hours a day, and I was like, God,
Speaker 3: I just think I should start Cam Scattaboo over Ashton Jenty.
Speaker 3: He was like the Raiders first round pick and Scottobo
Speaker 3: was like a third third round pick or fifth round
Speaker 3: pick something like that. Anyways, Jenty was like the number
Speaker 3: one back coming out of college. And he's like getting
Speaker 3: all the high he won the Heisman Trophy, and I
Speaker 3: was like, I think Scout was gonna do it then,
Speaker 3: So the last minute I benched him and put in
Speaker 3: genty and he played sunny. But last night freaking Scotty
Speaker 3: rand for like ninety eight yards, three touchdowns, scored thirty points,
Speaker 3: and I just was so mad.
Speaker 2: I was like, Ah, I'm still mesmerized by his name.
Speaker 2: Scataboo Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's his real name.
Speaker 2: That's an awesome name. Well, it's just an awesome sounding word.
Speaker 2: I like awesome sounding words, like, you know, gazebo and
Speaker 2: things like that, you know, but Skataboo is definitely in there.
Speaker 2: That's cool.
Speaker 3: But I think that is like I think it's it's
Speaker 3: gonna be like Scotch or Welsh or something. Oh okay, yes,
Speaker 3: I'm guessing Scottay sounds like it's Scottish to me. It's
Speaker 3: just a neat sounding sound. I like that.
Speaker 2: That's cool. I'd root for him for that reason.
Speaker 3: Anyway, people that want to hear about that, let's talk
Speaker 3: bigfoot stuff. What do we got?
Speaker 2: Oh wait, well, before we go too much further, John
Speaker 2: and I we had a whole data kill. So we
Speaker 2: went to University of Massachusetts and visited with Todd disstel Oh,
Speaker 2: got to go to his lab and hang out with
Speaker 2: him and all that sort of stuff. I made a
Speaker 2: bet with him. I made a bet that I'm probably
Speaker 2: gonna lose, but I think it would be a good
Speaker 2: bet anyway. I said, dude, five years, bigfoots are no
Speaker 2: longer mystery animals.
Speaker 3: I've lost that met so many times over the last
Speaker 3: twenty years.
Speaker 2: Well, now it's my turn. That's my turn, I said. Well,
Speaker 2: but actually I said, well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Speaker 2: Before we do this, how long does it take to
Speaker 2: get published in Nature? You know, because when this thing's done,
Speaker 2: it's not going to be a small sort of you know,
Speaker 2: like journal. It's going to be something big, right obviously.
Speaker 2: And he goes, oh, I've been published like four months.
Speaker 2: Five months. They go okay, cool, yeah, five years. So
Speaker 2: five years I've got a steak dinner and some bourbon
Speaker 2: writing on it. So he did. He he did say
Speaker 2: he's more than happy to test any vible sample I
Speaker 2: send him. And he showed me around his lab and
Speaker 2: showed me some of the It was funny we're in
Speaker 2: his lab. He goes, yeah, this will do this, and
Speaker 2: this this is the centrifugion does blah blah blah, and
Speaker 2: this this machine here, and they all look like microwaves
Speaker 2: to me, you know, like these big microwaves. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: costs like forty fifty thousand dollars. And what this one
Speaker 2: does is blah blah blah blah blah. And and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: this one over here, and you put any sample in there,
Speaker 2: it actually extracts the DNA material somehow. By he didn't
Speaker 2: say somehow because he knows how. But for me it
Speaker 2: was blah blah blah blah blah DNA material somehow, you know.
Speaker 3: And then.
Speaker 2: And John goes, what's that one do because it kind
Speaker 2: of looks like the dishwashers. Oh yeah, that one was
Speaker 2: from my coffee cup.
Speaker 3: For those that don't know, Just to tell you, I
Speaker 3: recognized him. Used to have a mohawk and being like
Speaker 3: Bigfoot documentaries like ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, do.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh yeah, yeah, good point. I didn't. Yeah
Speaker 2: you didn't bridge the gap, Thank you, Bobo. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a geneticist who's mildly interested in the sasquatch phenomenon.
Speaker 2: But you know, Todd said that he's interested in coming
Speaker 2: on and doing more big Foot stuff now I think
Speaker 2: so maybe we can probably convince him to come on
Speaker 2: the podcast if you guys want so cool, stay tuned
Speaker 2: for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll
Speaker 2: be right back after these messages. Bob, are you starting
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Speaker 2: He did say you'd be willing to test any samples,
Speaker 2: and I said, just I mean Todd. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: Darby's going to do this. Darby's going to go over
Speaker 2: the finish line with this thing. And I've got a
Speaker 2: steak dinner on less than five years. It could be you.
Speaker 2: It could be you trying to encourage a little bit
Speaker 2: of a you know, rivalry or you know competition. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like, why don't you do it instead? I don't
Speaker 2: care who discovers that. I'm an equal opportunity to discover.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know what, I think it's gonna give
Speaker 3: a big shot. There's that new thoas scene video came
Speaker 3: out yesterday May not Australia, Victoria. Like I guess, it's
Speaker 3: like forty to fifty miles from Melbourne, up on the
Speaker 3: Yarra Mountain range. The guy got real compelling thermal. It
Speaker 3: looks like a thalacy going down and around some kangaroos.
Speaker 3: He's got pretty good. Uh, he's got a pulsar like
Speaker 3: you got mat. I think it's I think he's got
Speaker 3: the fifty So it's pretty clear. I mean it's look,
Speaker 3: it looks good to me. I mean it's I mean
Speaker 3: he's had some videos out there that are kind of
Speaker 3: it's that ambiguous world on YouTube. I think he's had
Speaker 3: foxes up there and other things that have been proven
Speaker 3: not to be thallacing. But he's got a couple of
Speaker 3: clips that look like a thallacing to me, and this
Speaker 3: new one really looks like one, and I think I
Speaker 3: think he's got it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm looking at that right now. It does
Speaker 2: look kind of does look interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if that, if that turns out, dude, like,
Speaker 3: I mean, that's going to just throw gas on the
Speaker 3: fire for cryptis. I mean, that's a Lazarus species, you know,
Speaker 3: of course it's a it's it's not there's no question
Speaker 3: that was around. We got you know, bodies of them
Speaker 3: and footage of them. But they've been extinct supposedly for
Speaker 3: one hundred years, almost like ninety years. So if those
Speaker 3: things turn out, they have been hidden, you know, down
Speaker 3: there the whole time is still living and breeding. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's gonna give so much hope to like, like people
Speaker 3: are like, well, maybe sasquatches or Yawey's down there, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe that is a possibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know enough about him and stuff, but.
Speaker 3: He's got other videos where he breaks it down, where
Speaker 3: he breaks down like the I Am the intermembal index,
Speaker 3: like the the legs and this thing don't match anything
Speaker 3: but a Tholos scene he's got. He's got some really
Speaker 3: interesting videos on there. He's a smart dude.
Speaker 2: Maybe we grab him for the podcast too.
Speaker 3: Then I've written to him. I used to be in
Speaker 3: touch with them, like several years ago. I just wrot
Speaker 3: to him again last night, saying, I know you're getting
Speaker 3: flooded now, but we'd love to have you on. Well cool, So, uh,
Speaker 3: should I derailed the conversation?
Speaker 1: My train of thought was derailed. That's a topical news item.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is kind of what we're doing today.
Speaker 2: We've got a number of topics lined up for you
Speaker 2: or of our listeners. So why don't we hop onto
Speaker 2: that we haven't done one of these in a while, right, Matt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we usually do him about once a month. But
Speaker 1: you know, we crammed so many episodes and got so
Speaker 1: far ahead, weeks ahead, And that's why, listeners, if you noticed,
Speaker 1: I was putting in the show notes like by the way,
Speaker 1: this was recorded on September fourth or September eighth or whatever,
Speaker 1: just because there were things that happened in the interim
Speaker 1: that we didn't talk about in the episode, and so
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure people knew, like, no, we
Speaker 1: recorded this before those things happened. We weren't just being
Speaker 1: callous or ignorant or something. So I couldn't tell you
Speaker 1: when the last one we've done is, because they're all
Speaker 1: starting to blend together once we get that far ahead.
Speaker 1: I just don't remember when we recorded it or released it.
Speaker 1: But I really liked this article that I put in
Speaker 1: first in the order there about the Neanderthal footprints and
Speaker 1: the insights that it gave into their lifestyle, because you know,
Speaker 1: you can, as you're such a big advocate of Cliff,
Speaker 1: that you can learn so much about an animal or
Speaker 1: a species or an individual from footprints alone, And I
Speaker 1: thought that one offered a lot of really cool insights.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me pull up the article. Here is this
Speaker 2: someone about the the Nandertal foot prints alon the lake
Speaker 2: bed with a dentinal or something, and oh, okay, cool,
Speaker 2: I remember that one. I did read that one. Okay,
Speaker 2: it looks like that Deanderthal footprints were discovered on a
Speaker 2: southwestern Portuguese coast and the tracks are from eighty two
Speaker 2: to maybe seventy eight thousand years ago, so relatively recently.
Speaker 2: I know it doesn't sound very recent, but that's pretty recently.
Speaker 2: A couple of the interesting things about this is that
Speaker 2: apparently that the footprint from the youngest child lacks a
Speaker 2: fully formed arch, which is consistent with the expectations I
Speaker 2: guess from early childhood from development and Neanderthals. I didn't
Speaker 2: know that. That's pretty cool. I didn't know that at all.
Speaker 2: You know, I have a couple of footprints. Doctor Melgrim
Speaker 2: gave me a footprint from supposed I think it was
Speaker 2: from the Palmiers from an almisty, and it very closely
Speaker 2: matches the footprints from Neanderthals. I remember talking to doctor
Speaker 2: Melgrim that he suspects at the Almistes in eastern Europe
Speaker 2: there are probably or that probably maybe I think that's
Speaker 2: too struggle word possibly reliced Neanderthals are possibly Dennis Ovin's.
Speaker 1: It was really interesting that these trackways included prints that
Speaker 1: they interpreted as being from an adult male, a juvenile
Speaker 1: basically a child that they assume is somewhere between like
Speaker 1: seven and nine years old, and a toddler likely under
Speaker 1: two years old, and that the arrangement and depth of
Speaker 1: the footprint suggests a deliberate movement, something like something coordinated,
Speaker 1: which they seem to interpret as like hunting behavior like
Speaker 1: it says quote the prints indicate the likelihood of a
Speaker 1: hunting scenario, which I think is pretty fascinating.
Speaker 2: Would be super fascinating is considering that there's a I guess,
Speaker 2: a juvenile or you almost called a baby if they
Speaker 2: think it's less than two years old, a young one,
Speaker 2: certainly a toddler, yeah, coming along with them on this. Now,
Speaker 2: of course you'd have to wonder like Neanderthals, of course
Speaker 2: took down huge animals, you know, deer and horses and
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff, and maybe in a mammos
Speaker 2: I guess. But if they're doing stuff along the seashore,
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense too. I think too
Speaker 2: many times humans, when we discover something like, oh, these
Speaker 2: I took down mamis, we think that that's what they did,
Speaker 2: and that's all they did. But a seashore, especially in
Speaker 2: a Mediterranean sort of climate like that, I don't I
Speaker 2: get was it Mediterranean at that time? I don't really know.
Speaker 2: But you sasquatches exploit resources along the ocean all the time,
Speaker 2: and certainly ancestors and relatives would do the same thing,
Speaker 2: and I think here we have evidence of that. Now,
Speaker 2: what were they hunting if that if they were in
Speaker 2: fact hunting. I mean, they probably weren't hunting mammas on
Speaker 2: the beach. I guess it's possible. But what else lives
Speaker 2: there in abundance birds? For example? Maybe they're hunting birds.
Speaker 2: That seems like something you might take a two year
Speaker 2: old on a trip to go do, right, But at
Speaker 2: the very least, it does give us some sort of
Speaker 2: insight into the social structure and behaviors of at least
Speaker 2: these critters deanderthals, because they brought the younglings along with
Speaker 2: them on whatever they were doing, foraging for whatever.
Speaker 3: But I know this so that they thought that, like
Speaker 3: the kids would go out and hunt like rabbits and
Speaker 3: stuff like the Maybe they.
Speaker 2: Do, I don't know, But moving together in a familial group,
Speaker 2: that sounds familiar to me. We see that a lot
Speaker 2: with sasquatches, that there's different sizes of footprints associated with
Speaker 2: one another to some degree, So that there's another example
Speaker 2: of that sort of hominin behavior.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me.
Speaker 1: It also speaks to that how much of an animal's
Speaker 1: behavior is learned behaviors rather than innate or instinctual behaviors.
Speaker 1: And I was really fascinated to learn that the majority
Speaker 1: of tiger hunting behaviors. Siberian tigers are learned behaviors. They're
Speaker 1: not instinctual or innate, which is really kind of bizarre.
Speaker 1: You would think a genus that's been around that long
Speaker 1: so many of those things would have become hardwired. But
Speaker 1: they're actually learned, and it takes them quite a while
Speaker 1: to be exposed to their mothers exhibiting these behaviors to
Speaker 1: pick them up and develop that sort of sophisticated and
Speaker 1: complex behavioral repertoire. And you're seeing that here. I mean,
Speaker 1: it would be any surprise that humans are that way,
Speaker 1: but it's interesting to see direct evidence of that. I
Speaker 1: think it said something too about there was a likely
Speaker 1: camp site nearby, like it was pretty proximal to what
Speaker 1: seemed to be an intertal encampment, showing that like this
Speaker 1: was part of their landscape. You know, this wasn't some
Speaker 1: far flung hunting grounds, Like this is basically down the
Speaker 1: road from where they lived essentially, and so going out
Speaker 1: as a family unit and practicing these skills for the
Speaker 1: children at least learning these skills while the adult male
Speaker 1: practice them. It's all pretty insightful to gain that much
Speaker 1: information just from a set of tracks.
Speaker 2: Well, which really drives home that whole thing about tracking
Speaker 2: is extraordinarily important, extraordinarily important. Again, I've actually heard a
Speaker 2: bigfoot researcher say, we got to stop looking for tracks.
Speaker 2: What's one more track going to teach us? And I
Speaker 2: just could not disagree more strongly. I just could not
Speaker 2: disagree with that statement more strongly. We need to track
Speaker 2: more and more and more. The presence of the animal
Speaker 2: is one thing, certainly that tracks can tell us that
Speaker 2: with sasquatches or neanderthal or whatever, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: But by following the tracks and seeing where they happen
Speaker 2: and what they're doing at the time, it's the only
Speaker 2: way to get into the brain of a sasquatch. Really,
Speaker 2: it's the only way to learn about these animals. I
Speaker 2: can't believe that anybody would advocate to stop looking for
Speaker 2: footprints and collecting them, Like, what does that get us?
Speaker 2: It gives us a willful ignorance of the behaviors of
Speaker 2: the species. It's just it's absolutely ridiculous to me.
Speaker 3: There's nothing like getting on a trackway and seeing where
Speaker 3: they step and like like melgam was talking, like how
Speaker 3: the foot would go off at a forty five degree
Speaker 3: angle every other stuff because I was looking over its shoulder, like,
Speaker 3: and it gives you so much insight into their psychology
Speaker 3: and how they think it is, you know, it's it's
Speaker 3: it gives you in the mind of the squatsch when
Speaker 3: you get on their trail and you can see where
Speaker 3: they're stepping and what they're going, like, what they're keeping like,
Speaker 3: you know, how they try to stay hidden from you know,
Speaker 3: as much as possible as they walk, but keep it,
Speaker 3: keep going the direction they're going. I mean, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: it's it's it's the coolest thing I can think of.
Speaker 2: Really, And what percentage I mean, there's this venturre I guess,
Speaker 2: Bobo Matt, what percentage of sighting reports have the sasquatch
Speaker 2: being aware that it's being observed? Oh, I'd say the
Speaker 2: majority ninety eight ninety nine percent. Right, I'm it's very
Speaker 2: very rare to observe a sasquatch it and it doesn't
Speaker 2: know that it's being observed, very very rare. And of course,
Speaker 2: what does any sasquatch or animal really do when it
Speaker 2: knows it's being observed, Well, a variety of things, but
Speaker 2: you can put all of those things under the umbrella
Speaker 2: of it changes its behavior. It clearly changes its behavior,
Speaker 2: usually just walks away, but it certainly and maybe it hides,
Speaker 2: maybe it does something else, but it stops doing what
Speaker 2: it was doing naturally and changes its behavior and does
Speaker 2: something else. I argue I do this publicly all the
Speaker 2: time because I'm really focused on footprints, because I want
Speaker 2: to learn about the species. I know that they're there,
Speaker 2: I want to know what they're doing, right, So, but
Speaker 2: I argue all the time, the only way to observe
Speaker 2: a sasquatch and it not know that it's being observed,
Speaker 2: it's by tracking them, because every trackway tells a story.
Speaker 2: It was moving through this area doing something. What was
Speaker 2: it doing?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: And there is no other way, in my opinion that
Speaker 2: I'm aware of, to observe a sasquatch without it changing
Speaker 2: its behavior in some sort of way.
Speaker 1: And it looks like in this case too, that they
Speaker 1: their interpretation is that because it looks like there were
Speaker 1: red deer footprints as well, and so it reveals a
Speaker 1: likely scenario where in the Neanderthals were leveraging the done
Speaker 1: topography to facilitate ambushes, so using that landscape to basically
Speaker 1: hide or surprise prey potentially intercept prey or even maybe
Speaker 1: to drive prey interrain that constrains the praise movement sounds
Speaker 1: very familiar to me, Yes, very very much though clearly
Speaker 1: another Sasquatch parallel right there.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bogo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1: That does make me wonder, you know, if all the
Speaker 1: Sasquatch tracks that come to mind where people are interpreting
Speaker 1: what the things were up to. You know, you have
Speaker 1: a lot of sidings where people claim to see them
Speaker 1: ambushing deer or hogs or elk or whatever. But I
Speaker 1: don't know that there's any track ways where someone claims
Speaker 1: to have interpreted or documented a trackway that displays that
Speaker 1: sort of behavior or what you would interpret as that
Speaker 1: sort of behavior.
Speaker 2: We got one, yeah, one hundred percent. There is a
Speaker 2: few years ago at the Blueberry Bog we got one
Speaker 2: of those. Connor located a track. It's on display at
Speaker 2: the museum. There were actually several tracks on the shore
Speaker 2: like this, on the side of the swamp basically, and
Speaker 2: Connor found it. Nico went back with them. I never
Speaker 2: had that. I was out of town or something. I
Speaker 2: didn't have an opportunity to observe the trackway for myself.
Speaker 2: But Nico, who's a training tracker, He's taking classes in
Speaker 2: this whole thing. He's a good tracker. I'm just a
Speaker 2: self taught hack, you know. But I do practice all
Speaker 2: the time. I sicking that today. I practiced like six
Speaker 2: to twelve hours a week a lot of times. You know,
Speaker 2: you got to get better practicing that much, right, But
Speaker 2: because taking classes and he's pretty good at it, he
Speaker 2: went out there to observe the trackway, and what he
Speaker 2: pieced together the story that those tracks told him is
Speaker 2: that he backtracked the sasquatch to the woodline, and then
Speaker 2: apparently a bunch of elk were in the area, and
Speaker 2: the elk took off. They seem to have panicked or
Speaker 2: something like that, and went across the swamp like the
Speaker 2: water like there's a big pond there, you know, like
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. They went across the pond, and
Speaker 2: the sasquatch tracks came out of the woods about thirty
Speaker 2: yards fifty yards down and then slowly turned and followed
Speaker 2: the elk across the pond. And you can actually see
Speaker 2: the duckweed or whatever or muck was floating on the
Speaker 2: surface of the pond. You can see how the whole
Speaker 2: thing was parted, and the thing, the elk and everything,
Speaker 2: and the sasquatch presumably went all the way across the
Speaker 2: water and out on the shore on the other side
Speaker 2: and kept going.
Speaker 1: That sounds totally new to me. I don't think we
Speaker 1: talked about that before, at least not on the podcast.
Speaker 1: That's wild cool stuff, though, right, I mean, yeah, what
Speaker 1: a great story that the Ground told you, you know, absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's got got some pictures of it. I think they
Speaker 1: made a video about it too. Let's see if I
Speaker 1: can find the video and send it to you as well.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd love to see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, in keeping with the footprints and cooperative movements, et cetera,
Speaker 1: should we move on to the baboon article?
Speaker 2: Sure? Okay, So this article is basically about baboons moving
Speaker 2: in progressions, which are neat linear formations when traveling throughout
Speaker 2: their habitat, which you know, which is one of those
Speaker 2: things that's like, well, yeah, of course they probably do that,
Speaker 2: because we do that, right. I mean, how many times
Speaker 2: do when you're off trail somewhere you just walk right
Speaker 2: behind somebody. You don't always walk side by side, right,
Speaker 2: so at least some of the time they do that.
Speaker 2: But scientists were wondering if this is a strategic choice,
Speaker 2: like are they protecting individuals or something like that, or
Speaker 2: following leaders or just accidental, But apparently it's on purpose.
Speaker 2: They are doing this on purpose, so that they were
Speaker 2: wondering if there's a risk hypothesis, so like vulnerable individuals
Speaker 2: might be placed centrally for protection, which brings to mind
Speaker 2: Bobo's story about the tigers in Samatra. You remember that, Bobs, Yeah, yeah, totally,
Speaker 2: because apparently in Sumatra they were picking off individuals at
Speaker 2: the end, but they're also picking off individuals in the
Speaker 2: middle when humans were walking in single file line.
Speaker 3: The one that got killed three weeks ahead of us,
Speaker 3: that Japanese guy, he was in the middle of fifteen people.
Speaker 3: He was the exact middle guy.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess, don't leave so much space when you're
Speaker 2: hiking in tiger country. I guess is the lesson. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so there's a risk hypothesis. There's also a competition hypothesis,
Speaker 2: basically saying that the stronger individuals would be first, and therefore,
Speaker 2: you know, they would get the resources for better access
Speaker 2: to resources. There's also this idea a group decision or
Speaker 2: leadership right where certain individuals lead the group. All these
Speaker 2: things are very viable, I think, and also some social
Speaker 2: relationship ideas about how the ordering of how they're walking
Speaker 2: emerges from social bonds rather than any sort of functional purpose.
Speaker 3: Social spandrel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, spandrel is essentially a term that's used to describe
Speaker 1: something that's like a evolutionary byproduct, like it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: have a direct function that's adaptive or for survival. So
Speaker 1: that's why they called that one the social spandreal hypothesis,
Speaker 1: Like maybe this is just something that emerged as a
Speaker 1: byproduct of their lifestyle and it's not actually serving any
Speaker 1: specific function or it doesn't have a specific like adaptive utility.
Speaker 2: Is that why we do what?
Speaker 3: You think?
Speaker 2: Do we do it because because it seems natural?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think so, I mean just guessing, like to
Speaker 1: your earlier point, Like there's this path of least resistance thing,
Speaker 1: and so you know, if we're moving through a forested
Speaker 1: environment and one of us is in front, one of
Speaker 1: us is behind, well it's going to be less like
Speaker 1: one person's going to eat all the spider webs rather
Speaker 1: than both of us doing it, you know, And so
Speaker 1: whoever's like trailblazing is making the path least resistant for
Speaker 1: the person behind them. You know, there's you could have
Speaker 1: any combination of the ones you just mentioned, Like, well,
Speaker 1: if you're with a more experienced person, yeah, you want
Speaker 1: that person to lead, So there is that social element, but.
Speaker 3: You already know where they're going. That says it's like
Speaker 3: they're not really leading, right.
Speaker 1: Well, it looks like their findings were that the order
Speaker 1: that the baboons walk in that they're you know, self
Speaker 1: selecting and setting up disorder is predictable, so it's not random,
Speaker 1: and it didn't seem to be driven by anything related
Speaker 1: to safety protection, anything related to food acquisition strategies, and
Speaker 1: that it was primarily related to social bonds. That the
Speaker 1: social bonds determine the travel order.
Speaker 3: But the ones in front weren't weren't like leading them.
Speaker 3: They just they just were out front because they couldn't
Speaker 3: walk with the cool guys and so they just there
Speaker 3: wasn't any they weren't like leading on. Everyone knew where
Speaker 3: they were going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what it sounds like. It says those at
Speaker 1: the front are not the leaders. They were not making
Speaker 1: navigation decisions. Yeah, to your point, they already knew where
Speaker 1: they were headed, like to and from a familiar sleeping
Speaker 1: side or resting site or something like that.
Speaker 2: One iypothesis that I don't see mentioned here is they
Speaker 2: move in single file to hide their numbers like sand people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, I'm the one that submitted this article.
Speaker 2: I remember that because out at oddly enough, ironically enough,
Speaker 2: I guess, considering the joke, I just made that a
Speaker 2: location that we call the outer rim, which is also
Speaker 2: where tattooing is located. I might dad at the outer rim,
Speaker 2: we have found more than one. We found two or
Speaker 2: three now sasquatch footprints with a smaller individual's footprint in
Speaker 2: the footprint. So again, the first one we found was
Speaker 2: a fourteen or so inch print, and there was an
Speaker 2: eight inch print right in the middle of the cast.
Speaker 2: And then we went back to document the trackway another
Speaker 2: week or so later from where these things came up
Speaker 2: out of the ravine, and we got thirty or forty
Speaker 2: of these prints or whatever, and at least two of
Speaker 2: those I think if remember right, Actually this was a
Speaker 2: seventeen inch print coming up this is the one that
Speaker 2: we have nicknamed Jaba because the place we've nicknamed the
Speaker 2: outer rim. That one also had the eight inch print
Speaker 2: inside of it. So there's at least two, maybe three
Speaker 2: or so or footprints and casts. I cast two of
Speaker 2: these that have a larger print. Once a fourteen was
Speaker 2: a seventeen with the same eight inch print inside of it,
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, isn't that interesting? And of course
Speaker 2: I remember when I found that. I was pretty struck
Speaker 2: by that. I approached you, Matt, I asked you about it,
Speaker 2: and you told me about Area X observations.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a number those that come to mind
Speaker 1: where people had seen two that were walking in single file.
Speaker 1: I mean I had an experience once me and Tyler
Speaker 1: Bounds took out four friends who are four total skeptics,
Speaker 1: and they saw two some things that Tyler and I
Speaker 1: are pretty certain were sasquatches that were walking single file
Speaker 1: like that. But even in Area ACX or a number
Speaker 1: of those cases where there would be two individuals like
Speaker 1: one right behind the other, but single file, not side
Speaker 1: by side and not spread out, but walking in that way.
Speaker 1: I think Darryl talked about a few of those when
Speaker 1: we had Daryl Collier on the podcast for the first
Speaker 1: time a few years ago. There's another number of other
Speaker 1: sidings like that that come to mind, where people see
Speaker 1: two of them crossing a road together and their single file,
Speaker 1: one right behind the other. So, yeah, this article really
Speaker 1: reminded me of a number of those stories. But I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that sounds pretty familiar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was interesting enough that there's another
Speaker 2: primate species that seems to do the same thing, and
Speaker 2: maybe there's a purpose to it. Maybe there's not actually
Speaker 2: those photographs or I have photographs of those prints in
Speaker 2: my presentation that I'm giving this year, And I just
Speaker 2: gave that presentation this past weekend at the New York Festival,
Speaker 2: and I made that joke, you know about you know,
Speaker 2: like sand people to hide their numbers, and I realized,
Speaker 2: I think some people are taking me seriously on that, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think sasquatches do that. I want to make
Speaker 2: that very clear. I don't think sasquatches are trying to
Speaker 2: hide their numbers by doing it. It's literally just a joke,
Speaker 2: and you know it's not very good. You can tell
Speaker 2: that because I said it.
Speaker 3: Hum it reached.
Speaker 1: We just talked about the Julie Davis siding a couple
Speaker 1: episodes ago in Colorado where she had seen, you know,
Speaker 1: the big adult standing behind her tent and then as
Speaker 1: it turned to leave, there was a smaller one immediately
Speaker 1: behind it that was obscured when she was looking. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't hiding, but that was just how they
Speaker 1: were moving. But in that case, yeah, it was kind
Speaker 1: of hiding its numbers, so to speak. But it is
Speaker 1: a common theme in a lot of sidings or citing
Speaker 1: claims where there are multiple sasquatches.
Speaker 2: But I spoke to a witness just a few weeks ago,
Speaker 2: like a month or so ago, and this gentleman had
Speaker 2: two of these things walk in front of the of
Speaker 2: his car in the Blue Mountains, and I don't I
Speaker 2: mentioned this on the show or not after I spoke
Speaker 2: to him, but he interpreted them as a male and
Speaker 2: female and they were holding hands, walking side by side.
Speaker 2: And I kind of chuckled when he told me that,
Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, I get it, but that's what
Speaker 2: they were doing. Then they started looking around, and sure enough,
Speaker 2: that's a that's a primate behavior.
Speaker 1: Really, That's when I've never heard attributed to sasquatches.
Speaker 3: I've heard it a couple of times. You know. I
Speaker 3: heard this guy I talked to you. It's got another
Speaker 3: weird one. He was like Carrie Stainer. He was the
Speaker 3: guy that murdered the family out of Yosemite, the groundskeeper
Speaker 3: guy at the lodge. He was the guy in court
Speaker 3: trying to get off stading. He was crazy because he
Speaker 3: believed in bigfoot. I was talking to that guy. I
Speaker 3: was supposed to go do On to meet him when
Speaker 3: I was dropping down south and I was going to
Speaker 3: go go swing by Usemite and see him. Because he
Speaker 3: saw a family of four and it was a male
Speaker 3: female and two smaller ones. And he said that they
Speaker 3: walked in order of size and they were all holding
Speaker 3: hands going across the meadow. That's coming from a crazy murderer.
Speaker 2: So I don't want to derail the conversation too much
Speaker 2: with this question, Bobo, but just estimate right now, how
Speaker 2: many murderers have you spoken to.
Speaker 3: And I've talked to that I know of a lot?
Speaker 2: Is it like a lot, like six, because that seems
Speaker 2: like a lot to me.
Speaker 3: More than that?
Speaker 2: More than that? Okay, a dozen?
Speaker 3: Maybe? Oh more than that?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Not not good friends mine, but just you know.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no I didn't. I'm not implying like buddies
Speaker 2: that you could, you know, go get a beer with
Speaker 2: or something. Yeah, I live in Humble, A good point,
Speaker 2: the dark underbelly of California. Yeah, even though it's up
Speaker 2: on top.
Speaker 3: Some of them. I was pretty surprised, like, dang, that
Speaker 3: guy killed somebody, you know, and then I'd be pretty surprised.
Speaker 2: But not that Yosemite guy.
Speaker 3: I didn't know. I knew he was weird, but I uh.
Speaker 3: I talked him on the phone two times and wrote.
Speaker 3: We wrote a letter back and forth. Once he wrote me,
Speaker 3: I wrote him, and he wrote me back. Then he
Speaker 3: got then he got arrested.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of that. Also, love the idea of
Speaker 1: Bobo like writing letters the dearest wild Man of you.
Speaker 2: You know, Bubo can only write in calligraphy, right, dude,
Speaker 2: My handwriting is poor that your cligraphy is beautiful. That's
Speaker 2: how you can tell Bobo wrote the graffiti.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well the spray paint can I'm yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: beautiful lettering.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bobo will be right back after these messages. Okay, well,
Speaker 2: why don't we hop onto the next story here or
Speaker 2: the next topic.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, we had from science uh, science news, we
Speaker 3: had early primates primarily inhabited cold and temperate climates. News
Speaker 3: studies suggests. It just goes on to say that we always,
Speaker 3: you know, through textbooks and as we grow up learning
Speaker 3: things about human expansions, always suggests within the warm tropical forests,
Speaker 3: in the real temperate zones. But they actually, the new
Speaker 3: research shows they went north in the colder climates more
Speaker 3: than they thought. Take it through it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looked like they dealt with hot summers and
Speaker 1: freezing winners, but the adaptations were for those freezing winners,
Speaker 1: so you know, they weren't adapted to constant warm climates,
Speaker 1: but rather their adaptations were to the cold that was
Speaker 1: punctuated by warm times of the year, which is you know,
Speaker 1: that's a description most of Sasquatch habitat in North America.
Speaker 1: Like even you get up in North as you guys know,
Speaker 1: like it gets pretty hot in the summer in the
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest, even though you have cold winters and it's
Speaker 1: hot in Montana. I mean, there's a lot of these
Speaker 1: places they have brutal winners where it's hot during the summer.
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting about this article as well is
Speaker 2: as the authors were suggesting that some of these early
Speaker 2: primates may have had something like a hibernation like strategy
Speaker 2: to survive the freezing winners. And there was another article
Speaker 2: I submitted at some point, or did I submit, and
Speaker 2: I should have if I didn't, about hominins perhaps having
Speaker 2: some sort of hibernation or toper sort of behavior as well.
Speaker 2: There's some evidence now that some of VERI was it Heidelbergensis.
Speaker 2: Did you read that? Did I submit this? I should have.
Speaker 3: If I didn't, I don't remember it.
Speaker 1: We talked about it, but I haven't read the article.
Speaker 1: I don't think it ever got submitted, so we'll definitely
Speaker 1: have to cover that. But we did talk about it,
Speaker 1: which kind of tied back into this because it's like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: if the ancestors of all primates had this adaptation, then
Speaker 1: you'd expect it to be conserved to some degree, even
Speaker 1: if it's latent, because it looks like there are still
Speaker 1: some extant primates like Madagascar's dwarf flamers that do hibernate
Speaker 1: to survive winter scarcity, so it's been retained in some
Speaker 1: lineages but maybe it is something that is latent and
Speaker 1: that the primate line still has a capacity for who knows.
Speaker 2: I think so, man, because I don't know about you guys,
Speaker 2: but I don't. I just don't have the urge to
Speaker 2: go do a bunch of stuff during winter, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean I always assumed it was something related to
Speaker 2: like sunlight and all that sort of stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: like the seasonal depression thing or whatever else, you know,
Speaker 2: but I don't really I don't really get seasonal depression
Speaker 2: so much. I just certainly feel more lethargic, though, I
Speaker 2: will say that. And I've often wondered if sasquatches, and
Speaker 2: I don't think sasquatches, you know, they hibernate or anything
Speaker 2: like that, because there's a fair number of sightings during
Speaker 2: the winter, and I find tracks during the winter all
Speaker 2: winter long. So I don't think they're hibernating. But it
Speaker 2: makes sense to some degree. And I don't have any
Speaker 2: data on this, but it just makes sense that they
Speaker 2: would probably limit their activity to some degree during the
Speaker 2: winter time. Certainly they restrict their range, I would imagine,
Speaker 2: but it makes sense that perhaps they would maybe maybe
Speaker 2: their metabolism slows or something like that, because their diet
Speaker 2: would be constricted and their territory would be constricted, and
Speaker 2: makes sense that their activity may also be constricted to
Speaker 2: some degree.
Speaker 1: God, wouldn't that be wild if there was a link
Speaker 1: between you know, seasonal effective disorder and some latent drive
Speaker 1: to hibernate and that's why motivation plummets and you know,
Speaker 1: the desire to move around or you know, any of
Speaker 1: those sort of drives that we have that seem to
Speaker 1: be depleted during the winter. We're actually tied to ancient
Speaker 1: survival strategies. That to me is very plausible. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it is, but like if some findings came out
Speaker 1: that proved that, I be like, oh, yeah, that tracks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. And of course, you know,
Speaker 2: everybody thinks apes are all tropical, because the only apes
Speaker 2: we have now are tropical. We have monkeys that live
Speaker 2: in cold climates, and of course mountain gorillas also going
Speaker 2: to the snow as well in the high elevations, but
Speaker 2: they live in the tropic you know, along the equator
Speaker 2: and that sort of thing, so they are also tropical animals,
Speaker 2: but we only have a handful of these relic species now.
Speaker 2: All ape species that we know of today are relict species,
Speaker 2: so it makes sense. And of course, if you look back,
Speaker 2: what is it the Miocene, I believe there were hundreds
Speaker 2: of ape species widely spread all throughout well Africa and Asia,
Speaker 2: in Europe basically, and of course they went into a
Speaker 2: colder climates, so it's not that big of a stretch
Speaker 2: that sasquatches could have adapted to something like a cold
Speaker 2: climate like in northern Russia and then passed over the
Speaker 2: land bridge. Even now they seem to be more commonly
Speaker 2: encountered in temperate climates than in the tropics, even though
Speaker 2: there are some reports in the tropics. But it just
Speaker 2: makes sense that, of course that we have this holdover
Speaker 2: from these giant megafauna that existed at that time, you.
Speaker 3: Know, makes sense.
Speaker 1: We will definitely have to find that Heidelbergins's article and
Speaker 1: cover that in a future one. Since we did two
Speaker 1: cliff articles, I think a good Bobo article to end
Speaker 1: on which sounds I was actually intrigued by. It was
Speaker 1: this press release about a film that's set to be released.
Speaker 1: I guess it's in pre production, so I don't even
Speaker 1: know if they've filmed it yet. But a film that's
Speaker 1: going to be based on the Osman encounter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's gonna be rad Yeah, that's what I got
Speaker 3: from the well respected site geek Tyrant. It's called.
Speaker 2: Sorry both. I didn't mean to laugh over you, but yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's in. The movie is called for Capital F
Speaker 3: Capital U. Capital Are for tells a wild Jewish Truish
Speaker 3: story of the first big for the abduction, and Frank
Speaker 3: Mosley is set to star. I don't know who Frank
Speaker 3: Moseley is, but yeah, it's at the Albert Osman abduction
Speaker 3: and then he gets tangled up in an unsettling relationship.
Speaker 3: I know there's been some porns made of it, what really? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: based on you would know that.
Speaker 2: I know there. I know there have been because people.
Speaker 3: Sent me like links like clips from like pornhub or whatever,
Speaker 3: like the or maybe not porn, but like some niche
Speaker 3: for kind of poor insider. Something was like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: didn't say awesome, it was like it was you know,
Speaker 3: it was based on that.
Speaker 2: It was obviously awesoman though it have to be that.
Speaker 3: Say, this is gonna be a blend of surreal horror,
Speaker 3: intimate drama, and crypto mythology like we've never seen before.
Speaker 2: That's correct.
Speaker 3: In nineteen twenty four, a lonely logger seeking gold and
Speaker 3: a fresh start a fresh start in the Canadian Willderness,
Speaker 3: but instead of striking it rich Albert finds himself violently
Speaker 3: abducted by a Sasquatch and drag to its cave, where
Speaker 3: he meets the creature's mate and their daughter. What unfolds
Speaker 3: is the descent into isolation, primal rituals, and what the
Speaker 3: film describes as forbidden intimacy and an active creation.
Speaker 1: I'm very glad to be counted among Bobo's friends, but
Speaker 1: now I'm glad to not be the sort of friend
Speaker 1: that these these clips that you're referring to get shared.
Speaker 3: Amongst not my friends. I mean I just I'd give
Speaker 3: them sent to like my page or whatever.
Speaker 2: Just random strangers sitting you, Yeah, check this out.
Speaker 3: Like they'd be like, they'd be like laughing, going look
Speaker 3: at this. Have you seen this one? Have you seen
Speaker 3: that one? I'm like, I haven't seen any of them.
Speaker 2: The article is apparently that the filmmakers are aiming to
Speaker 2: avoid a campy or irreverent treatment. They want to grounded
Speaker 2: sincere sensibility.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love that far Oh goodness, But.
Speaker 3: Uh, they're going to explore their visceral themes of desire, otherness,
Speaker 3: belongingness with a note within the no holds barred genre framework.
Speaker 2: Well that's a new take, it says.
Speaker 3: At its core, the film examines masculinity and sexuality under
Speaker 3: pressure and the quiet horror of watching something truly other.
Speaker 3: It explores how isolation distortces perception, and how captivity, dependency,
Speaker 3: and desire blurred together when you have no one left
Speaker 3: and nowhere else to go.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like, you know, he was never explicit
Speaker 1: about that, but John Green did say in multiple interviews
Speaker 1: I've heard him say it more than once that he
Speaker 1: felt like Austin was trying to intimate him, that he
Speaker 1: was abducted to be a mate for the juvenile female,
Speaker 1: but that he never like came out and said that.
Speaker 1: But you Green somehow got that impression that like, oh,
Speaker 1: the old man must have. He might have said that
Speaker 1: in his affidavit, something like, you know, maybe they wanted
Speaker 1: me to take her away to a better lifestyle or
Speaker 1: something like that, but it was never explicit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Roger got the same impression. When Roger Patterson interviewed.
Speaker 1: Sounds like these filmmakers picked up on that one element
Speaker 1: and thought there's a story there.
Speaker 2: I thought, so, well, that's a pretty common trope, you know,
Speaker 2: with apes subducting people for sexual purposes and such, you know.
Speaker 3: Or anything's due, right, do you know? I ca't. We've
Speaker 3: Oustmin's rest had done like a hundred times already, Like
Speaker 3: that's so obvious, just a great one. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: just it's all there lust adventure. Yeah, there is.
Speaker 1: Almost like a reverse sort of like King Kong element
Speaker 1: in the Osmin story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I may.
Speaker 2: I may actually watch the Ausman story if it comes out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't wait to see it. It could be good.
Speaker 2: At least, you know, at least it's not the same
Speaker 2: sort of thing where there's a sasquatch who's been wronged
Speaker 2: and it's going to go slaughter everybody, right, you know,
Speaker 2: at least it's not fat. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot
Speaker 2: and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back
Speaker 2: after these messages.
Speaker 3: Or was that the size like gorillas? Or there's the
Speaker 3: skull in China may shake up timeline of human evolution.
Speaker 3: They're both good.
Speaker 2: Well, what do you prefer, Bobo?
Speaker 3: Should we do the ancient skull, sure, I can start it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety and Hubei, China, they found a skull
Speaker 3: that had been deformed during fossilization, and it was hard
Speaker 3: to gauge what if it was significant or not. But
Speaker 3: then they did a new analysis and indicates the skull
Speaker 3: belongs to an early branch of a sister lineage to
Speaker 3: our species. This finding may shake up the understanding of
Speaker 3: how human evolution unfolded over the past billion years or so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's been tentatively assigned to Homo erectus,
Speaker 2: which is kind of cool. I mean that that is
Speaker 2: a sister, you know, species to us. And apparently the
Speaker 2: analysis suggests that these features differ a little bit from
Speaker 2: Homo erectus, pushing it towards like an Asian centered hominin
Speaker 2: lineage that would include like Denis Opin's basically, so again,
Speaker 2: our family tree is getting bushier by the moment, which
Speaker 2: is kind of cool. And I think that you're considering,
Speaker 2: especially considering how large Asia is, you know, I think
Speaker 2: that we're going to be there's to be a lot
Speaker 2: of new discoveries all throughout Asia of hominine fossils scattered
Speaker 2: all over the place. That's really going to mean for
Speaker 2: us at least to revise human evolution. Now, of course,
Speaker 2: I want to point out something real fast because I
Speaker 2: do hear a lot of these articles. They have the
Speaker 2: big splash, clickbait sort of titles rewriting human evolution. The
Speaker 2: human evolution is a fact. It is a fact, but
Speaker 2: we're always tweaking it. We're learning more about it, you know.
Speaker 2: And so that's why it's evolution is a theory, the
Speaker 2: theory of evolution, because we don't have all the wrinkles
Speaker 2: worked out of it, and we never will. Probably we
Speaker 2: never will. We're always learning more about it. But articles
Speaker 2: like this are a great example. We know that humans
Speaker 2: have evolved through over time, and now we're learning new
Speaker 2: branches in new places that are unexpected. We don't know.
Speaker 2: We don't know very much in general. I mean, remember,
Speaker 2: like we didn't know that humans evolved at all until
Speaker 2: the late eighteen hundreds, like one hundred and fifty years ago,
Speaker 2: when the first Neanderthal skull was uncovered. And so obviously
Speaker 2: there's be a lot of tweaking to our current model,
Speaker 2: and this is a wonderful example of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish, I wish there was a they had
Speaker 3: like a digital recreation of it so you can see
Speaker 3: what they're because they say it's like a low like
Speaker 3: of a long, low skull with a receding forehead behind
Speaker 3: a strong bridge brow ridge. And the esteridated brain size
Speaker 3: is the largest so far for any hominint of that era.
Speaker 2: Which falls in line with the Homo long guy or longi,
Speaker 2: or the Denisovans as well. And of course remember Neanderthals
Speaker 2: had bigger brains than we do. Yeah, they just used
Speaker 2: them different, you know. So apparently there are five different
Speaker 2: families or branches, they call them clades, but like the
Speaker 2: five different there are at least five major clades of
Speaker 2: Homo with large brains, diverging from about about a million
Speaker 2: years ago or more Homo sapiens, because we didn't we
Speaker 2: weren't around quite then, you know, but we were lining up,
Speaker 2: you know, Homo loongi and Denisovans, Neanderthals, Heidelbergensis, and homoerectus
Speaker 2: all living in that general area.
Speaker 1: Apparently, as I understated, the oldest human remains, you know,
Speaker 1: anatomically modern human remains in Asia were in the Xeron
Speaker 1: Cave and xeren Dong in China, and those are roughly
Speaker 1: one hundred and ten thousand years old. You know what
Speaker 1: we would consider, you know, anatomically modern Homo sapiens. Now
Speaker 1: that's some research I did about a year ago, referencing
Speaker 1: some things for a presentation I gave last year. So
Speaker 1: maybe there is some older remains or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I think it confuses people because whenever science, and
Speaker 1: very often the popular science media, refers to something as human,
Speaker 1: they're really just broadening that to anything within the genus Homo,
Speaker 1: which is technically correct, but I think most lay people
Speaker 1: when they hear human, they think Homo sapiens. So when
Speaker 1: they read that there's a million year old human skull,
Speaker 1: they think, oh, well, humans were around a million or
Speaker 1: a million plus years ago, which pushes back the timeline
Speaker 1: of Homo sapiens. It's like, no, no, no, it's just
Speaker 1: a different form of Homo, which is a different form
Speaker 1: of human, but it's not human as in terms of
Speaker 1: Homo sapiens sapiens.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: No, that's very very confused. And that's when you know,
Speaker 2: if sasquatches end up being some sort of hominin species,
Speaker 2: they could be argued as being human and I'm sure
Speaker 2: though the whole forest friend folks are just going to
Speaker 2: see see told you say, yeah, not really, not really,
Speaker 2: But for whatever it's worth, I believe that the oldest
Speaker 2: human fossils are about three hundred thousand years old. But
Speaker 2: that's not Asia. That was in Morocco or northern Africa
Speaker 2: somewhere if I remember.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I was gonna add was where that skull
Speaker 3: was found? Is where we filmed the Urine Chinese Bigfoot episode?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Whoba Province right, We're in Shinoja, Sia National Park.
Speaker 2: I love, you know, I would have to say that.
Speaker 2: I don't get me wrong. I love playing my guitar.
Speaker 2: But if I had college to do over again, I
Speaker 2: don't know if I would major in music. I probably
Speaker 2: a major in something you know, equally useless for making money, paleoanthropology.
Speaker 2: But who knew that I would end up where I
Speaker 2: am today? Though, so I certainly did.
Speaker 3: You didn't need to. You probably would be doing Bigfoot stuff.
Speaker 3: You did. That.
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true, That's very true.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I never wish things were different because it wouldn't be
Speaker 2: the same. Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we do have a host of questions left
Speaker 1: over from our last Q and A session, And for
Speaker 1: those of you who are not pigeons, if you like
Speaker 1: Bobo stories, our last Q and A session saw a
Speaker 1: massive smattering of epic sasquat stories that Bobo investigated. It's
Speaker 1: definitely worth hearing. A lot of the listeners loved it,
Speaker 1: but we probably should get to those overflow questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the floodgates opened last time. For sure.
Speaker 1: He launched into an epic series of stories.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's go over to the members. Bob
Speaker 2: get us out of here.
Speaker 3: All right, okay, folks, thanks for joining us again. If
Speaker 3: you liked it, hit like, hit, share, spread the word.
Speaker 3: We appreciate it, and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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