Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out
Speaker 1: of there.
Speaker 2: I was done.
Speaker 1: I wasn't deal with them.
Speaker 2: The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things
Speaker 2: that turned me away the quickest.
Speaker 1: When I turned my head lights on, it turned and
Speaker 1: looked at us. And one of the things I remember
Speaker 1: the most where the eyes were going red. I see
Speaker 1: an orb of light. It is just circling these steps.
Speaker 2: Like it is waiting for me. And he begins to
Speaker 2: tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what
Speaker 2: are you talking about.
Speaker 1: That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it,
Speaker 1: and that's where I saw.
Speaker 2: The top of the muzzle nose and the eyes. As
Speaker 2: soon as I made eye contact with this thing.
Speaker 1: It don't like debt. Welcome back, listeners, it's Brandon from
Speaker 1: ten Foil Tels bringing you another episode. Today's episode, we're
Speaker 1: going to dive into a conversation that I had with
Speaker 1: a guy named Lee from the UK. We discussed some
Speaker 1: of the UFO sidings he's had and some of the
Speaker 1: research he's done with that. But before we get into that,
Speaker 1: if you've been a fan of tenfoil Tels, please go
Speaker 1: and subscribe to ten Foil Tals wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: podcasts at you can find more information about that, and
Speaker 1: if you do happen to subscribe, make sure to leave
Speaker 1: a five star rating and review wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: ten Foil tells that does help me fight the algorithms.
Speaker 1: You can help support the podcast by joining the Patreon
Speaker 1: for one dollar ninety nine cents a month to get
Speaker 1: early access to all my episodes, and they're all at free.
Speaker 1: You can also purchase my documentary The Miscinema Triangle exclusively
Speaker 1: over on the Patreon for four dollars and ninety nine cents.
Speaker 1: If you're interested in anything that I've talked about or
Speaker 1: what I've researched or filmed, you may want to go
Speaker 1: and check that out. But we're going to go ahead
Speaker 1: now and dive into the conversation with Lee again. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, Thanks to Cult of Conspiracy for having me
Speaker 1: a part of this, and we will check you on
Speaker 1: the next one. I'd like to take this time and
Speaker 1: welcome my guest tonight, Lee, Thanks for coming on here
Speaker 1: to talk women.
Speaker 2: Thanks thanks for the invite.
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a time difference. I know
Speaker 1: you're about five hours ahead of me, so trying to
Speaker 1: work it in here, so you're not up till like
Speaker 1: early in the morning.
Speaker 2: But no, I've got a cup of coffee, so I'm
Speaker 2: I'll be all right.
Speaker 1: No, I definitely appreciate it. Do you want to let
Speaker 1: the audience know a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure. So my name is Lee Thatcher and it's
Speaker 2: spelled l E I g H. I'm forty nine. I
Speaker 2: grew up in South London, where I had my first
Speaker 2: UFO encounter, which I'll chat about in a minute. I've
Speaker 2: got two children, twenty five and twenty seven. I'm a
Speaker 2: land scape gardener. I've been a UFO guest speaker conference.
Speaker 2: I've done other podcasts and interviews and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Living with my partner for thirty one years. And as
Speaker 2: Brandon says, it's two thirty in the morning, so I've
Speaker 2: got a cup of coffee, so I'm going to I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna I've got a load of notes in front
Speaker 2: of me because of the the When I usually do
Speaker 2: this talk, I usually I'm able to just talk without
Speaker 2: any writer or anything, but because it's so early in
Speaker 2: the morning, I've had to write everything down. So I
Speaker 2: grew up in I started off in a place called
Speaker 2: Addington in Croydon in London in seventy five, and the
Speaker 2: first a few incidents that happened were when I had
Speaker 2: a christening set like a knife, fork and spoon. It
Speaker 2: wasn't christened, but it was a gift from a relative
Speaker 2: and this cutper re sept like knife, you know, christening
Speaker 2: sept would just go miss him and it go missing
Speaker 2: for days on end, and it would just turn up
Speaker 2: on top of the cut resept in the drawer. Nobody
Speaker 2: would know how it had got there. And this was
Speaker 2: quite a frequent occurrence. And so that was my first
Speaker 2: kind of introduction if you like to spooky things and go.
Speaker 1: On, I was gonna say how old were you at
Speaker 1: that point?
Speaker 2: So I was I was a newborn baby, so you know,
Speaker 2: I was newborn. My parents at the time, like as
Speaker 2: I was growing up, they would recount these stories of
Speaker 2: the house that we lived in. The house was only
Speaker 2: built in I think the late sixties. I think it
Speaker 2: was a big council estate. Yeah, they would they would
Speaker 2: recount these stories of these black balls of light that
Speaker 2: would dart across the room. They didn't know what they were,
Speaker 2: whether they were spirits or ghosts, whatever. But again you
Speaker 2: know that. So there was a lot of stories in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood of with stuff going on in the people's houses.
Speaker 2: But we moved from there. I moved around quite a
Speaker 2: lot as a kid, but yeah, we moved from house
Speaker 2: to house. And by the time I was seven, my
Speaker 2: parents split up. My dad went his way and I
Speaker 2: went with my mum, and then I went back with
Speaker 2: my dad, and then back was on forwards that I've
Speaker 2: got an older brother and sister and we'd all be
Speaker 2: separate over time. And then we moved in with my
Speaker 2: new stepdad. So I would have been yeah, seven or
Speaker 2: eight at the time, and he had a son called Darren.
Speaker 2: Now my stepdad was in the Marines, so there was
Speaker 2: a lot of He knew a lot about tanks, guns,
Speaker 2: all this sort of thing. We had a lot of
Speaker 2: guns in the house, so we knew, you know, we'd
Speaker 2: go out and shoot and do all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: And one evening we were me and my stepbrother I
Speaker 2: was ten at the time. We'd gone cycling and it
Speaker 2: was one afternoon. We were cycling through this playing field
Speaker 2: and he got off his bike and he said, you know,
Speaker 2: come have a look at this. We both watched this
Speaker 2: light in the sky. Now again you know, he grew
Speaker 2: up knowing all about military aircraft and all stuff like that,
Speaker 2: so he knew the difference between a plane and a helicopter.
Speaker 2: And we watched this white light in the sky. So
Speaker 2: this would have been nineteen eighty five and I would
Speaker 2: have been ten. And this white light was then accompanied
Speaker 2: by a few other lights and it formed what looked
Speaker 2: like a diamond shape. And then this shape thing whatever
Speaker 2: it was, loaded itself past the horizon and that was it.
Speaker 2: That was the end of that siding. We got on
Speaker 2: our bikes, we cycled home. But it's stuck in my
Speaker 2: head what.
Speaker 1: You said it was diamond shaped?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was diamond it was. It wasn't. It was
Speaker 2: diamond shaped as in there was a top bottom on
Speaker 2: two sides, and it looked like a diamond, but it would.
Speaker 2: It was made up of a few lights, and from
Speaker 2: what I can remember, it was just white. So the
Speaker 2: lights were white. It was late afternoon.
Speaker 1: It wasn't prison me looking. It wasn't what like a
Speaker 1: prison like you could see kind of like colors reflecting
Speaker 1: from it.
Speaker 2: No, okay, I mean it was over and done with
Speaker 2: relatively quick a couple of couple of minutes, I think,
Speaker 2: we went home and we spoke to our respective parents.
Speaker 2: My mum was kind of dismissive of it. My stepdad
Speaker 2: he was the same. And that was it. Thought nothing
Speaker 2: of it. And then it was a few weeks later
Speaker 2: I started having quite bad nightmares. And at the time
Speaker 2: I didn't really think much of it because they were
Speaker 2: just nightmares to me. But it was a reoccurring nightmare.
Speaker 2: And the nightmare was I'd be lying flat on a
Speaker 2: table and there would be these what I would call
Speaker 2: the little workers, and they didn't speak, and I couldn't
Speaker 2: see them, but I knew they were there, and I
Speaker 2: knew that they were talking to each other, but they
Speaker 2: weren't audibly talking. And then the next part of the
Speaker 2: nightmare this machine with I always described it as letters
Speaker 2: and numbers put over the top of each other. Now
Speaker 2: as an adult, I would say that that was more
Speaker 2: like a symbol. So these things had this machine had
Speaker 2: symbols on and I called it a conveyor belt of words,
Speaker 2: and I would this machine would come towards me with
Speaker 2: these symbols on, and I'd have to read what was
Speaker 2: on this machine, and then I'd wake up. Although the
Speaker 2: actual dream itself, there was nothing bad happened. I just
Speaker 2: knew that it was a terrifying nightmare. And weeks later
Speaker 2: I'd have the same nightmare. And I had this about
Speaker 2: four or five times the age of ten, soon after
Speaker 2: this UFO siting, and I remember the last time I
Speaker 2: had it, I got out of bed, I ran down
Speaker 2: the hall to my mum and stepdad's bedroom and I
Speaker 2: remember looking back and in my head I thought to myself,
Speaker 2: I hope they don't come for me again. And that
Speaker 2: was that was the end of that. Never had that
Speaker 2: dream nightmare ever again. And then so that was that
Speaker 2: was that episode over and done with. And then we
Speaker 2: moved they split up, excuse me, they split up, and
Speaker 2: then we moved in with my name and granddad. We
Speaker 2: lived there for a couple of years, and then from
Speaker 2: mindan and granddad's house, we then moved to Birmingham, England,
Speaker 2: which is about one hundred and sixty miles away. So
Speaker 2: in America that's like down the road, whereas in England
Speaker 2: we would consider that a long way.
Speaker 1: Six months so I used to drive almost one hundred
Speaker 1: miles to my office for my job last year, so
Speaker 1: that's not far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I said in England, yeah, one hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty miles. Two hundred miles is considered like a questionable journey.
Speaker 2: So we moved to Birmingham and nothing of any significance
Speaker 2: happened until I was about fifteen and I woke up
Speaker 2: in the living room standing up. I've never slept walked before.
Speaker 2: I've never slept walked before, never slept work walked afterwards.
Speaker 2: But I was fifteen and I woke up standing up
Speaker 2: in the living room and I'd organized these rolls of
Speaker 2: wallpaper into the shape of what I thought was stonehenge.
Speaker 2: Was that? So that was that kind of episode. Finished,
Speaker 2: went back to bed, thought nothing of it. The only
Speaker 2: reason I mentioned these things is because over time I've
Speaker 2: spoken to other people that have had UFO and alien encounters,
Speaker 2: and they've experienced very similar things. So whoever's listening to
Speaker 2: this podcast now who may have had the same experiences,
Speaker 2: it may strike a chord with them. In ninety four,
Speaker 2: so I'm kind of going in chronological order. Ninety four,
Speaker 2: I would have been seventeen. I was at college and
Speaker 2: I met my partner, Lucy. She was fifteen. I was seventeen,
Speaker 2: and we started dating and I went to her house
Speaker 2: one evening and she had a box of photographs and
Speaker 2: just looking through them, they were random sort of photographs
Speaker 2: of this, that and the other. And I pulled out
Speaker 2: this one photo and I said to her, what you're doing?
Speaker 2: You know, what are you doing with this photo? You know,
Speaker 2: what's the story behind this photo? And she said, oh,
Speaker 2: I just took it randomly. When I was younger in
Speaker 2: the eighties, so she would have been about six or seven,
Speaker 2: she had like a little camera. She said, I just
Speaker 2: took a random photo and that's what came out. And
Speaker 2: I said that this is in the photo. It was
Speaker 2: my sister, my aunt, and my nan. So how you know,
Speaker 2: if you want to go down the road of synchronicities,
Speaker 2: if you like, that's probably the biggest synchronicity that I've experienced.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've explained that story. Well, so
Speaker 2: if you imagine, I've come up from London to Birmingham,
Speaker 2: which one hundred and sixty miles away, met this girl.
Speaker 2: She's got a photo of my family that she took randomly,
Speaker 2: and I took the photo back to my family and
Speaker 2: I said to him, you just can you just clarify
Speaker 2: who these people are in the photo and they all said,
Speaker 2: you know that she's sister and your aunt and you're
Speaker 2: you know, And I told them where the photo come from.
Speaker 2: And even to this day, we can't quite work out
Speaker 2: how that actually happened. But we we then moved in together.
Speaker 2: We finished college, we moved in together, and we moved
Speaker 2: from flat to flat and house to house, and we
Speaker 2: kind of bummed around different places and we ended up
Speaker 2: in this one flat. And it was one evening, so
Speaker 2: we're talking probably ninety six, spy now ninety five ninety six.
Speaker 2: We were I was asleep on the settee and she
Speaker 2: said that the room had changed frequency. And she said,
Speaker 2: this black while I was asleep, So I didn't witness this.
Speaker 2: This is Lucy that had witnessed this. This black missed
Speaker 2: shape just came into the room, walked, moved through the
Speaker 2: room and then out the other end. And then she
Speaker 2: said the frequency just went back to normal. It was
Speaker 2: as if she described it as the room was just
Speaker 2: changing channel, as if it was like a radio.
Speaker 1: And I kind of I don't want to interrupt, but like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the frequency part of it, I've always wondered mentioned this
Speaker 1: several different times like when people see these different shadow
Speaker 1: figures or anything like that. I've said, maybe they're seeing
Speaker 1: something from a different plane of existence and off reality.
Speaker 1: So maybe that she felt the frequency change, because maybe
Speaker 1: it kind of did, because this thing vibrates at a
Speaker 1: different frequency than what we were not seeing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally get that, Totally get that. Yeah. If ever,
Speaker 2: you speak to anyone that has had UFO encounters, you
Speaker 2: often find that they will say that there's a changing
Speaker 2: the kind of atmosphere around them, as if it's like
Speaker 2: a byproduct of I mean, I'm saying I'm using the
Speaker 2: term UFO and linking it with this black misted shame
Speaker 2: thing only because I mean, I'll go on to this later,
Speaker 2: but I've had other UFO and paranormal anomalies in the
Speaker 2: home as we get older, So I'm only linking the
Speaker 2: two together. As I say, I've got no proof of
Speaker 2: that there was a UFO above the house at the time.
Speaker 2: It could have been a ghost, it could have been
Speaker 2: an alien, it could have been an interdimensional being could
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was. But then we so
Speaker 2: we started. I mean I was always into When I
Speaker 2: moved to Birmingham, I got really into the subject of UFOs, ghosts,
Speaker 2: paranormal and I got quite in depth, went right down
Speaker 2: the rabbit hole, as it were. This is years before
Speaker 2: the internet and mobile phones, and so it was all
Speaker 2: books and conferences and things like that that we used
Speaker 2: to go to. And then we I went on a
Speaker 2: camping trip with a couple of couple of friends and
Speaker 2: I'd had this really vivid dream of standing outside my tent.
Speaker 2: We'd gone camping in Wales, and the we've gone, we'd
Speaker 2: had our fire, we had food, We've gone to bed.
Speaker 2: But I had this such a vivid trip I can
Speaker 2: steal stee it now, vivid dream of standing outside the
Speaker 2: the tent and being made to watch a UFO leave.
Speaker 2: And then I got back in the tent and went
Speaker 2: back to sleep. We came back home the next day,
Speaker 2: all the two days later, whenever it was, and I
Speaker 2: was chatting to Lucy about it, and I said, you know,
Speaker 2: I had this weird dream about this UFO. And then
Speaker 2: I was on the phone to somebody a bit later
Speaker 2: on in the evening, and as I mentioned this story,
Speaker 2: the phone just went completely dead and we couldn't connect
Speaker 2: the phone again till the next day. And then Lucy
Speaker 2: was I mean, this could be coincidence, but I'm just
Speaker 2: adding it in the whole sort of story anyway. But
Speaker 2: there are little bits of other things that have happened
Speaker 2: that I've missed out, but I'm going to concentrate on
Speaker 2: the you know, the bigger things later. So then Lucy
Speaker 2: was chatting on the phone to her to a friend
Speaker 2: of hers, and she said, Lee had this thing happened
Speaker 2: earlier where he was talking about this UFO story and
Speaker 2: the phone went dead, And it just happens that the
Speaker 2: phone went dead again again coincidence with someone listening, you know,
Speaker 2: we we just don't know. So then from so we
Speaker 2: moved from that flat into the house that we're living
Speaker 2: in at the moment. The house we're living in at
Speaker 2: the moment. We've been here now for about twenty two years,
Speaker 2: and this is where we've had the most amount of activity. Now.
Speaker 2: I grew up going to church. It was never religious,
Speaker 2: but I was expected to go to church with my
Speaker 2: nan and my aunt, the ones that were in Lucy's photo.
Speaker 2: I had to go, you know, when I was eight,
Speaker 2: nine ten. Didn't enjoy it, but I kind of got
Speaker 2: a bit of an understanding about the Bible and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. When I moved to Birmingham, I kind of
Speaker 2: got more into the idea of UFOs in the Bible
Speaker 2: and most importantly the Book of Revelations. And I used
Speaker 2: to read the Book of Revelations, but you know, page
Speaker 2: after page offs paid and I used to try and
Speaker 2: decipher what the book was was going on about. But yeah, weh,
Speaker 2: I'll get I kind of have to go back towards
Speaker 2: with different things that have happened, and they'll all linked
Speaker 2: together in it a bit later on. So yeah, so
Speaker 2: I've got this side of me that he's really interested in,
Speaker 2: you know, the Bible and UFOs, and we've got we
Speaker 2: moved into this house that we're in at the moment,
Speaker 2: so we've got two We've had two children by then,
Speaker 2: and I was it was when we very first moved
Speaker 2: in and we had a cat. The cat was scratching
Speaker 2: at the back door and Jessica, our eldest daughter, she
Speaker 2: would have been uh about three, three or four at
Speaker 2: the time, and she was laughing at the at the
Speaker 2: cat trying to get in through the She was sort
Speaker 2: of scratching at the window and I had my hand
Speaker 2: near it behind her. I can't really describe it but
Speaker 2: she had her hands behind her back, and I was
Speaker 2: sort of holding her hands at the same time, and
Speaker 2: I felt as if someone had grabbed my wrist. And
Speaker 2: I looked down and there was no hand there. Jessica's
Speaker 2: hands were tiny. This felt like a grown adult's hand
Speaker 2: around my wrist. And then I thought nothing of it.
Speaker 2: And then about a minute later, Jessica said to me,
Speaker 2: what was that? I said, what was what? And like
Speaker 2: I said, she was about foot four or five at
Speaker 2: the time, and she started rubbing her arm up against
Speaker 2: the settee and she said, it feels like someone's just
Speaker 2: run the hand up my arm. Said, well, it wasn't me,
Speaker 2: and then it I twigged, you know, I've just had
Speaker 2: the same I've just had the same experience. You know,
Speaker 2: someone's just grabbed my wrist, someone's just touched her arm.
Speaker 2: There's nobody else with us. So that was a bit
Speaker 2: of a ghostly encounter. We never got to the bottom
Speaker 2: of that. But as to say, I used to really,
Speaker 2: really really study crop circles religion, and it got to
Speaker 2: the point where I think it was twenty ten. I'd
Speaker 2: spent years and years and years really bogged down with
Speaker 2: trying to understand the UFO phenomena, piecing things together. And
Speaker 2: at the time, twenty twelve was approaching, and there was
Speaker 2: a lot of talk about big things that you know,
Speaker 2: Earth changes and things like that, and I got to
Speaker 2: a point where I was so depressed by the whole
Speaker 2: phenomena that I decided I woke up one morning with
Speaker 2: absolute sense of dread and I couldn't shift this feeling
Speaker 2: of impending doom. And so I got all my books
Speaker 2: and I got rid of them, got rid of all
Speaker 2: my books, stopped listening to heavy metal, tried tried being
Speaker 2: quote unquote normal, and this lasted for about two or
Speaker 2: three weeks, and I go to work feeling really depressed
Speaker 2: because I just overdosed really on all things paranormal, and
Speaker 2: I didn't have any answers. And that's when when twelve approached,
Speaker 2: that's when things really kicked off for me, because it
Speaker 2: seemed like, you know, I pushed out, pushed all this
Speaker 2: stuff away, all the religious stuff, the UFO and the Bible.
Speaker 2: Couldn't get my head around what I was trying to
Speaker 2: achieve from it all. And then it was as if
Speaker 2: overnight I had this awakening, if you like, and it
Speaker 2: was as if the paranormal world said, okay, if you're
Speaker 2: not going to be on board with us, now, this
Speaker 2: is my kind of terminology. If you're not going to
Speaker 2: be on board with us, we're going to show you
Speaker 2: exactly what we mean. And that's when all sorts of
Speaker 2: things happened in quite a short kind of space of time.
Speaker 2: And it was almost as if it was as if
Speaker 2: a portal had opened up around the house. I was
Speaker 2: trying to my notes, So yeah, it's about twenty twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: The first thing that happened, I woke up during the
Speaker 2: night and there was I could only describe it as
Speaker 2: a jellyfish just coming through into the into the room,
Speaker 2: and I watched it climb up the wall. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't take drugs, never smoke, so I've never had
Speaker 2: any anything like that. Watch this jellyfish just come into
Speaker 2: the room and out through the wall. Next couple of
Speaker 2: days it was, I think it was it would have
Speaker 2: been early July, I think, and blue sky and we
Speaker 2: had these planes going over now we get a lot
Speaker 2: of whether your listeners believe in them or not. We
Speaker 2: get a lot of came trails over here. And the
Speaker 2: one day twenty twelve we had a fleet of planes
Speaker 2: going over. I think it was about five or six
Speaker 2: of them, and they were doing a circle of the city.
Speaker 2: And as they came overhead, I was in the kitchen
Speaker 2: and I looked up and I could see them coming
Speaker 2: over again, and I could see these orbs just appearing
Speaker 2: in the actual m trail itself, and I thought, bloody ell,
Speaker 2: you know, I haven't seen the UFOs. I was ten
Speaker 2: orb would appear in the in the contrail, probably say
Speaker 2: it was the size of a large car, and it
Speaker 2: would float along with the chemtrail, and then it would
Speaker 2: blink out, and then another I wanted to appear, and
Speaker 2: I think I counted like five in the space of
Speaker 2: like ten minutes. And so we were watching these and
Speaker 2: I called Lucy and I said, come on, have a
Speaker 2: look at this, and she's you know, we were both
Speaker 2: watching these orbs. And that was the end of that.
Speaker 2: And I thought, if I'm seeing these things, you know,
Speaker 2: if these things are showing themselves again, I'm gonna buy
Speaker 2: myself Peera binoculars. So I bought Para binoculars and put them.
Speaker 2: They're still there, They're still by the back door. So
Speaker 2: I left them by the back door just in case
Speaker 2: anything else happened, and I've got my binoculars just in case. Now.
Speaker 2: I said earlier that I'm my landscape gardener. Back then,
Speaker 2: I just used to do just basic gardening. And at
Speaker 2: the time, I was listening to a lot of podcasts
Speaker 2: about UFOs and encounters and stuff like that. And there
Speaker 2: was a guy that it wasn't Stephen Green, it was
Speaker 2: some other guy that was going on about C five
Speaker 2: where you can call these UFOs down and they'll appear
Speaker 2: to you. And I was listening to this and I thought,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I could do this. So I was I
Speaker 2: think it was lunchtime, and I was at the back
Speaker 2: of one of my customers gardens where I used to work.
Speaker 2: There a big million pound houses, massive gardens, loads of
Speaker 2: land in a place called edge Baston, and so I
Speaker 2: sat at the back of the garden of the customer
Speaker 2: and I thought, right, I'm going to do what this
Speaker 2: this the person on this podcast was describing. So you
Speaker 2: just sit and you meditate and you ask. So that's
Speaker 2: what I did. So I'm meditating and my customer had
Speaker 2: gone out to play golf, so I was just sat
Speaker 2: there in the back of the garden on my own
Speaker 2: and I was meditating, and in my head I was saying,
Speaker 2: you know, calling out, you know, with respect, you know,
Speaker 2: and all that, all that sort of spill. And I
Speaker 2: started hearing these helicopters, and I thought that that's what
Speaker 2: I'd summoned. I thought it'd smoned the helicopters. So when
Speaker 2: I walked onto the lawn to see what this helicopter
Speaker 2: was doing, there was actually an orb the size of
Speaker 2: a car, a black I described its the pokermonble. It
Speaker 2: was kind of gray dark underneath, and then another shade
Speaker 2: of dark on top. And this was quite a little
Speaker 2: bit of treetop level above the houses, probably if you're
Speaker 2: looking at the clock, probably ten o'clock as you're looking up.
Speaker 2: I don't know what degree that would be. And this
Speaker 2: ball or thing was just moving towards me, and there
Speaker 2: were three military helicopters just circling it. And the whole
Speaker 2: thing was dangerous because it was above There was a
Speaker 2: reservoir nearby, Edgebaston Reservoir. There should have been a lot
Speaker 2: of witnesses to it. I've never never read any accounts
Speaker 2: other than my own. And this what I described as
Speaker 2: a Pokemon ball was moving towards me, and these military
Speaker 2: helicopters were. It looked like it was ushering or bullying
Speaker 2: this ball way, so it couldn't come anywhere near me.
Speaker 2: So I'm stood there, And of course I didn't take
Speaker 2: a photo of it, didn't take a film. I had
Speaker 2: my phone on me. I don't think I had an
Speaker 2: Ericsson phone withn't. I don't think that I had a
Speaker 2: camera on it or anything like that. But even if
Speaker 2: it did, there was no point. I didn't even think
Speaker 2: to take a photo of it. So once that had finished,
Speaker 2: that had all moved back into the sky away from
Speaker 2: where I was, So I'm stood there, dumb, dumbfounded. So
Speaker 2: I phoned Lucy up and I said, you know, you'll
Speaker 2: never guess what I've just seen. I went to explain
Speaker 2: what I was seeing, and she said, before you go
Speaker 2: any further, She said, who he's on the phone with you?
Speaker 2: And I said, there's no one on the phone on
Speaker 2: my own, and she said I can hear voices on
Speaker 2: the phone, and I said no, I'm literally in the
Speaker 2: in the garden on my own. Again, we don't know
Speaker 2: who who she was hearing. So that was the next
Speaker 2: kind of UFO that we saw. Or that I saw.
Speaker 2: So we had the chemtrails with the orbs. Then a
Speaker 2: week later, I've had this helicopter of this orb pokemon
Speaker 2: board type thing that I, for all intense and purposes,
Speaker 2: summoned out the sky. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I start getting these military helicopters flying overhead everywhere, any
Speaker 2: everywhere I went. Then a few times a day when
Speaker 2: I went home, they'd be over the house. Before I
Speaker 2: went to the shops, you'd have one go over. And
Speaker 2: this was a just it just got to a point
Speaker 2: where I was texting Lucy every day saying, there's a
Speaker 2: third military helicopter. It's gone over, it's a fourth one.
Speaker 2: I got order of texting her telling her and the
Speaker 2: helicopters I was seeing, and they were flying relatively quite low.
Speaker 2: And then so we again. This is all happening in
Speaker 2: the summer of twenty twelve. So a couple of nights later,
Speaker 2: we were we were dancing in the living room, we
Speaker 2: were having a drink, and we were chatting to somebody
Speaker 2: on Messenger and they were in America. Now, I used
Speaker 2: to be part of a crop Circle Facebook group, and
Speaker 2: I'd befriended a few people from that and this woman
Speaker 2: was part of that, so we were chatting to her.
Speaker 2: It was late at night, so if we're say ten o'clock,
Speaker 2: it would have been probably six o'clock there. So we're
Speaker 2: dancing around and everything was merry, and we said, you know,
Speaker 2: should we wrap it up for the night, go to bed? Yeah? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: So we agreed we'll go to bed. So we shut
Speaker 2: everything down. We said goodbye to our friend, and we
Speaker 2: walked into the hallway to go to bed, and there
Speaker 2: were these two orbs in the in the hallway. Now,
Speaker 2: these orbs were one was head heighth, the other one
Speaker 2: was ankle height, and they were pulse eating. One was red, sorry,
Speaker 2: one was blue, one was orange, and they were I
Speaker 2: can't I can only describe it as pulsating, like fizzing.
Speaker 2: They were like fizzing really quickly, pulsating and fizzing, and
Speaker 2: and I, you know, I knew that we'd had a drink,
Speaker 2: but we both started and Lucy said, are you looking
Speaker 2: at this? And I said, yeah, I can see this,
Speaker 2: and then if they vanished, and then we just went
Speaker 2: to bed. We didn't think think anything of it. And
Speaker 2: when we spoke to our friend the next night on
Speaker 2: from America, I said. I said, oh, you know, we
Speaker 2: had this experience last night when we went to bed,
Speaker 2: and she said, she said, when I switched my computer off,
Speaker 2: she said, I saw an orange or in the in
Speaker 2: the in the living room. Now, she was, you know,
Speaker 2: she lived in America. We're in England. So this I'm
Speaker 2: not quite sure where the link is. We've her seeing
Speaker 2: an orban her living room and us seeing these flashing
Speaker 2: orbs in our hallway. Anyway, that was that we put
Speaker 2: it to put it to one side. And then I
Speaker 2: was hearing this animal This is all this animal noise
Speaker 2: was all within the same kind of time frame. I
Speaker 2: kept hearing this. It sounded like a between a dog
Speaker 2: and a cat, kind of growling and meowing at the
Speaker 2: same time, but it was kind of faint, and it
Speaker 2: was coming from the hall. And I kept hearing this
Speaker 2: every other night, and I didn't really say much to
Speaker 2: Lucy about it until she said to me, I keep
Speaker 2: hearing this noise, and I said, you know, what does
Speaker 2: it sound like? So she told me that she keeps
Speaker 2: hearing this animal noise between a cat and a dog
Speaker 2: growling and meowing at the same time. And I said, well,
Speaker 2: I keep hearing the same thing, and we couldn't really
Speaker 2: work out what that was. And we've gone to the cinema,
Speaker 2: Lucy and I, and we've got it. We'd left our
Speaker 2: youngest daughter. She would have been she would have been
Speaker 2: about I'm gonna say twelve at the time, about twelve ten,
Speaker 2: between ten and twelve, and she was with a friend.
Speaker 2: Lucy and I had gone to the cinema and Lucy's
Speaker 2: phone kept going off while we're at the cinema and
Speaker 2: I said, to you know, Tony's phone off, you know,
Speaker 2: watching the film, and she said, it's Navenive's our youngest.
Speaker 2: She said, it's Nave. She keeps phoning. I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: to take take this phone call. So she went out
Speaker 2: and she came back and she said, you're never You're
Speaker 2: never going to guess what she's just been telling me.
Speaker 2: And I thought she was going to say she's made
Speaker 2: a wigie board or something, and she said, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: She had her in a chick scared on the settee
Speaker 2: because they can hear this animal in the hallway and
Speaker 2: it sounds like a cat and a dog, but they
Speaker 2: can't work out what it is, and they're absolutely terrified
Speaker 2: so we had to cut the cut the film short
Speaker 2: and come home. We kept on hearing it, you know,
Speaker 2: for weeks on end, and we go out into the hall.
Speaker 2: We still couldn't work out where this thing was coming from.
Speaker 2: Another night, another afternoon, we were playing badminton on the
Speaker 2: field and we were we were wrapping it up. At
Speaker 2: about five six o'clock, the sun had gone down and
Speaker 2: we both noticed the sky was really weird. There was
Speaker 2: a grid. You could see a grid, and it was
Speaker 2: like it was like a ghost, a ghostly grid that
Speaker 2: was just hovering, like coming in and out of existence,
Speaker 2: if you like. It was really faint. But now I
Speaker 2: knew that it wasn't the rays of the sun because
Speaker 2: we you know, we've we've lived here, we've lived here
Speaker 2: enough times to enough years to know what the sun
Speaker 2: looked like coming down when it was set in. This
Speaker 2: was a grid high up in the sky, and we
Speaker 2: we were kind of wondering if we it's some kind
Speaker 2: of portal had opened, and I think things are coming in,
Speaker 2: things are coming out, things are you know, we've had this.
Speaker 2: We've had the orbs that were in the house, we
Speaker 2: had the orbs that are in the sky above the house.
Speaker 2: In the chemtrails. We heard these this animal, strange animal thing.
Speaker 2: And then it kind of came to a bit of
Speaker 2: a head when I was at I was at the
Speaker 2: computer desk on the computer, and I heard this plant
Speaker 2: pop fall in the hallway, in the sorry in the porch,
Speaker 2: this plant patch just fell randomly, and I looked and
Speaker 2: in my head it was like a trigger, and the
Speaker 2: trigger was go outside, you're going to see something now.
Speaker 2: Right in front of me were my binoculars that i'd
Speaker 2: bought previously from a couple of weeks ago when we
Speaker 2: when we'd seen the the chemtrails. So I took the binoculars.
Speaker 2: I went outside. Like I said, I was told in
Speaker 2: my head it was like a telepathic message, whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call it. So I'm looking up at the
Speaker 2: sky with the binoculars and I can see this line.
Speaker 2: So the sky is blue, and there's clouds, you know,
Speaker 2: faint clouds all the way around, but there's a big
Speaker 2: patch of blue sky and I'm just looking with the
Speaker 2: binoculars and I can see this line looks like a
Speaker 2: little line like way up in the atmosphere, and it's
Speaker 2: coming down. And obviously as it's coming down, it's getting
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger, and the only way I could describe it,
Speaker 2: this thing, whatever it was, was a caterpillar. Now, this caterpillar,
Speaker 2: I call it a caterpillar. It came down and it
Speaker 2: was just below cloud level, so I'm not quite sure
Speaker 2: how high that would be. Anyway, I've got this thing
Speaker 2: in my binoculars and it's full of filled up the binoculars,
Speaker 2: you can see everything, every detail. This thing was made
Speaker 2: up of orbs stuck together and they were red and white.
Speaker 2: And at the base at the end of the this
Speaker 2: caterpillar were these two hooks, and the hooks were kind
Speaker 2: of pivoting. They were moving, but like around, and the
Speaker 2: top of the caterpillar was like a big ball, but
Speaker 2: it was in a cup, and the ball itself, the
Speaker 2: head of this caterpillar thing had horns, and this thing
Speaker 2: was the head of it. This thing was moving inside
Speaker 2: what looked like a cup, and it was luminescent. It
Speaker 2: was glowing from the inside, and it had what looked
Speaker 2: like protrusion like arms, but like made up of more
Speaker 2: smaller orbs. And this thing was writhing around and it
Speaker 2: looked like it looked like a caterpillar court on a
Speaker 2: my thread that's the only way I could describe it.
Speaker 2: And this thing was writhing around. Now, this was on
Speaker 2: the fifteenth of July. Fifteenth of July twenty twelve, and
Speaker 2: Lucy said to me, out of the blue, that was it.
Speaker 2: I called her and I said, Luce, come and have
Speaker 2: a look at this. So she grabbed the binoculars and
Speaker 2: she looked at this thing. She said, is it an angel?
Speaker 2: And I said, I said an angel? You know, I mean,
Speaker 2: we're not religious and never got no interest in religions
Speaker 2: all right now, or she hasn't anyway, And she said,
Speaker 2: is this is an angel? And I said, no, it's
Speaker 2: not an angel. I said it to me, it looks
Speaker 2: like a biological UFO. So I called the children. The
Speaker 2: children looked out of the bedroom window. They've got a
Speaker 2: better eyesight than I have, so they were looking at
Speaker 2: it with an eye and they had obviously said a
Speaker 2: few choice words. They couldn't understand what this thing was.
Speaker 2: This lasted for about a minute or two and then
Speaker 2: it just rose back up and that was the end
Speaker 2: of that. And then we came in and scept my
Speaker 2: brain going again, and I thought, I've got to find
Speaker 2: out what this thing is, and Lucy said, no, just
Speaker 2: leave it. We don't know what it is. Don't bother
Speaker 2: with it. She was so dismissive of it. But I
Speaker 2: was dead certain I needed to find out what this
Speaker 2: thing was, trying to do a lot of research. That evening,
Speaker 2: we were sat watching TV and we had we had
Speaker 2: a big cabinet, big pine cabinet, and on the cabinet
Speaker 2: was a fish tank, and on the wall was the mirror,
Speaker 2: and next to the fish tank was a lamp, and
Speaker 2: we was watching TV and this stream of light just
Speaker 2: came out of the lamp. Again, the only way I
Speaker 2: could describe it is when Sally Anne in was it
Speaker 2: Sallyanne or Mary Anne in Poltergeist, She's sat watching TV
Speaker 2: the static and the hand comes out. It was exactly
Speaker 2: the same as that, but it was just one long
Speaker 2: stream of light that just came out. Wasn't a ball
Speaker 2: that separated. It was a stream that came out of
Speaker 2: the lamp. I sort of described it as a bent
Speaker 2: piece of copper and then it went into the mirror.
Speaker 2: And then Lucy and I just looked at each other
Speaker 2: and we just thought, yeah, that's fine, that's just another
Speaker 2: weird thing that's happened. And that was the kind of
Speaker 2: like things started to settle down after that. Nothing else
Speaker 2: happened then, and then it was it was only a
Speaker 2: few years ago that it just happened to be flicking
Speaker 2: through a crop circle book. I'd got rid of all
Speaker 2: my books, but I kept a crop circle book and
Speaker 2: I just happened to be flicking through the crop circle
Speaker 2: book and I came across this crop circle and it
Speaker 2: was from nineteen ninety four, and it was called the
Speaker 2: Scorpion crop circle and it would have been laid July
Speaker 2: the fifteenth. Now, if you google on images Scorpion crop
Speaker 2: circle nineteen ninety four, you'll see the crop circle I'm
Speaker 2: on about that is the exact representation of the UFO
Speaker 2: that I saw in twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: July fifteenth. What was the date again, July fifteenth of
Speaker 3: twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: So that was my sighting. The the crop circle appeared
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four, July fifteenth. M So again you've
Speaker 2: got this synchronicity, you know, you've got you know, I've
Speaker 2: seen this biological creature thing and it's a it's an
Speaker 2: exact copy of a crop circle from ninety four. And
Speaker 2: it's only tonight before I started talking to you that
Speaker 2: it dawned on me. Is this I always thought when
Speaker 2: I put the two and two together and the dates
Speaker 2: were the same, I put two and two together, and
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, so maybe maybe the creature that I saw,
Speaker 2: the biological UFO is are there is the thing that
Speaker 2: has caused some of the crop circles, because some of
Speaker 2: the crop circles from ninety four look very similar to
Speaker 2: the scorpion one that I've just mentioned, and I thought,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe that's what's creating them. And it's only tonight
Speaker 2: I wondered, could that UFO that I saw had just
Speaker 2: taken on that form as a as a way of
Speaker 2: falling me? Because I think when you when you when
Speaker 2: you delve deep into the UFO field, you see there's
Speaker 2: a lot of I think there's a lot of deception
Speaker 2: going on with it, a bit like a bit like
Speaker 2: the paranor like when you do a Wiji boarder a sounce,
Speaker 2: you never quite know who he's coming through. And I
Speaker 2: wonder if the UFO phenomena is very similar where it's
Speaker 2: like like a cat and mouse kind of very deceptive.
Speaker 1: Mm hm. When it comes to the whole UFO thing
Speaker 1: in general, I don't really. A lot of the time,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the things that people are
Speaker 1: seeing are us in the sense that some of the
Speaker 1: craft might be in government military and they're keeping it
Speaker 1: a secret, yep. And then a lot of the time
Speaker 1: I'm like when people say they see these things and
Speaker 1: this and then, and I'm like, I don't doubt that
Speaker 1: you're not seeing things, But I don't know if they're
Speaker 1: necessarily aliens or extra trailer or whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it. I don't know if it's that. But lately,
Speaker 1: with these orbs and these smaller things than some of
Speaker 1: the things that are doing a lot of the crazy movements,
Speaker 1: I don't think a human could survive the movements. That's
Speaker 1: where I start to question, especially the things that you
Speaker 1: see bleed in and out, like those are almost like
Speaker 1: the stuff that's coming in and out of our reality.
Speaker 2: Well, if you think about it, if you remember the
Speaker 2: story that I said about when we went into the
Speaker 2: hallway and there were flashing orbs, if you lived in
Speaker 2: Ireland fifty six years ago, they would be considered fairies.
Speaker 2: If you lived in Scandinavia, they'd be considered goblins. Because
Speaker 2: we have a bit more of a understanding of UFOs
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. We associate it with well, I
Speaker 2: associate it with UFOs, so it's almost like a cultural thing,
Speaker 2: you know, although there was no form to these orbs
Speaker 2: that were pulsating. When you look at pictures of you know,
Speaker 2: Victorian Victorian pictures of fairies, they often appear to have
Speaker 2: what looked likes sparkles of light. They often sparkle, and
Speaker 2: I think I often wonder is are what our ancestors
Speaker 2: have seen, you know, when they've called them fairies? Are
Speaker 2: they actually part of the UFO phenomena? You know, when
Speaker 2: you have fairies that take children away. In England, a
Speaker 2: lot of old houses you'll have a shoe look of
Speaker 2: an old I think it's I think they used to
Speaker 2: put a girl's shoe in the wall at the top
Speaker 2: of the stairs. And what that was to do that
Speaker 2: was to fall any goblins or sprites into thinking that
Speaker 2: there was a girl there, because it was often the
Speaker 2: boys that were taken. Is that this is old English
Speaker 2: folklore and you can still find these shoes and the
Speaker 2: stories behind these shoes. People believed, you know, people believed
Speaker 2: that strongly that their children were going to be taken
Speaker 2: away by these spirits or these you know, fairies or whatnot.
Speaker 2: But then if you think about the alien induction scenario,
Speaker 2: it all it's almost like the same story, but with
Speaker 2: different characters. You know, the the alien abduction would you'd
Speaker 2: have these small creatures coming and you know, this is
Speaker 2: sort of what people have suggested. Small creatures, grays, large eyes.
Speaker 2: They come in, abduct you in your sleep, do experiments
Speaker 2: with you, and drop you back. It's very much the
Speaker 2: same as the goblins and fairies that would take children,
Speaker 2: you know. So what I'm saying is, are we just
Speaker 2: catching up with what folklore has been telling us all along.
Speaker 1: I've had conversations with others too, and I've said it
Speaker 1: multiple times. I think a lot of this stuff is
Speaker 1: related one way or the other, Like when it comes
Speaker 1: to UFOs, when it comes to fae, when it comes
Speaker 1: to even paranormal they're in cryptal the things that are
Speaker 1: we're all experiencing. What if it is all connected in
Speaker 1: the sense that it's all from this different existence that
Speaker 1: we don't normally see, but that's what comes over into
Speaker 1: our reality. We're calling them aliens, we're calling them demons,
Speaker 1: we're calling them whatever. What if it's all one and
Speaker 1: the scene. It's something from a different frequency, a different
Speaker 1: plane of existence that we can't normally see or interact with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my question then would be is it the Is
Speaker 2: it the individual that is causing these things to be
Speaker 2: attracted to a home or or is it something else?
Speaker 2: You know? Is it the person or.
Speaker 1: I don't know, a lot of people that have experiences
Speaker 1: seem to have a lot more experiences than the average person.
Speaker 1: Like if just from doing this show and I've said it,
Speaker 1: and now that I've said it to me, it's like
Speaker 1: I kind of go back on it. But originally I
Speaker 1: always thought when people had all these fantastical stories, I
Speaker 1: saw UFO. Well I also saw this, and I've got
Speaker 1: paranormals like, well, how is some person having all these
Speaker 1: experience and it makes no sense? Why would what makes
Speaker 1: you special? Yeah, And the more and more I've looked
Speaker 1: into it, there that connection is there?
Speaker 2: Gotcha?
Speaker 1: So, like my perspective has kind of changed, and the
Speaker 1: fact when people say they've had all these experiences, I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily just write it off because maybe they are
Speaker 1: having all these experiences. And again, like you said, is
Speaker 1: it the person?
Speaker 2: Well, this is why, this is why I said to
Speaker 2: you right at the beginning when we saw this, well,
Speaker 2: when Lucy saw this black figure come through the come
Speaker 2: through the room, and she said, the frequency changed. That's
Speaker 2: why I said earlier on whether there was a UFO
Speaker 2: around or if there was some kind of interaction that
Speaker 2: we didn't know about, and that was a byproduct. You know,
Speaker 2: if you if you take a fighter jet and you
Speaker 2: and you fly it at the speed of sound or
Speaker 2: just over the speed of sound, you have a sonic boom.
Speaker 2: That's a byproduct of the plane interacting with the atmosphere around.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if, I wonder if because I mean
Speaker 2: I've watched quite quite a lot of most haunted and
Speaker 2: ghost you know, ghost investigations and things like that, and
Speaker 2: there was a particular American one years and years ago,
Speaker 2: and what they realized was that the house that was
Speaker 2: having all this activity, the house was wired in a
Speaker 2: particular way where all the wiring was kind of going
Speaker 2: in a loop. I know, you know, you have a
Speaker 2: ring maine for you downstairs and the same upstairs. But
Speaker 2: the particular way this house was wired meant that they
Speaker 2: were suggesting that it was almost creating a kind of
Speaker 2: vortex which was attracting these experiences. So I'm wondering if
Speaker 2: you know the propulsion of a craft has the same
Speaker 2: effect on the atmosphere, which then the byproduct of that
Speaker 2: is it opens up these kind of porsals rifts in time,
Speaker 2: if you want to say it, and lets these things
Speaker 2: come through.
Speaker 1: M It's weird in the last few years, how more
Speaker 1: and more people are starting to lean this way. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because of podcasts and people
Speaker 1: are listening to stuff like this and their minds are
Speaker 1: more open to it, or are we possibly all just
Speaker 1: starting to tune in more to that, because I feel
Speaker 1: like ten years ago, if someone would have said something
Speaker 1: like this, most people would have still thrown you out.
Speaker 1: It's called you crazy or whatever. But today it's not
Speaker 1: so out there.
Speaker 2: When all this happened in twenty twelve, I started getting
Speaker 2: messages from people that did podcasts and who did run
Speaker 2: UFO groups, and I was asked to be a guest
Speaker 2: speaker at quite well known UFO conference in London. So
Speaker 2: I went and did that, and I always remember the
Speaker 2: first It was my first proper big talk, if you like,
Speaker 2: and I think I went into a lot more detail
Speaker 2: than what I've done tonight. But the one thing I said,
Speaker 2: and I remember starting it off and I said, what
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you, if somebody told me, I
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't believe it. And that's how I start used
Speaker 2: to start my talks because I think the thing is,
Speaker 2: I think over the years, people there's more platforms for
Speaker 2: people to talk, there's more platforms for people to be open,
Speaker 2: and the more people that do these talks. I mean,
Speaker 2: the reason why I'm sat up at half three now
Speaker 2: in the morning is because I want to get my
Speaker 2: story to other people that may have had similar experiences
Speaker 2: that can then message me and say, I've had this
Speaker 2: strange thing happened to me that's just the same as yours,
Speaker 2: and maybe over time put pieces of the puzzle together.
Speaker 1: I think there's so many puzzle pieces out there that
Speaker 1: we're only getting bits and pieces. I listened to some
Speaker 1: other podcasts and they've said it the same way I
Speaker 1: just kind of did. We're all fed little pieces, and
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of us trying to take
Speaker 1: these weird pieces and put them together for this big puzzle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're still missing a lot of the pieces.
Speaker 2: I think. I think when it comes to maybe the
Speaker 2: government and what the government know. I would recommend not
Speaker 2: even bothering to pay attention to what you think the
Speaker 2: government knows. I would pay more attention to what the
Speaker 2: average Joe down the street is talking about on these podcasts.
Speaker 2: That's where I think the phenomena is kind of real.
Speaker 2: That's where you're going to get the real stories from
Speaker 2: the problem with you know, the main we have it
Speaker 2: here on mainstream TV now, where years ago they put
Speaker 2: a story out on the news and it would all
Speaker 2: always be accompanied with X files music and it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be taken seriously, whereas now they're kind of almost owning
Speaker 2: a narrative. So what you'll find is that what you
Speaker 2: see on the mainstream and what the government tell you
Speaker 2: is a narrative that they want you to go along with,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the narrative of the
Speaker 2: individual that's experienced it. And I think, I mean, I've
Speaker 2: spoken to countless other experiences and their stories are some
Speaker 2: of them are far more exotic than mine. Some of
Speaker 2: them are not quite exotic, but they still have elements
Speaker 2: of strange things that have happened that need listening to,
Speaker 2: and you know, with a bit of discernment piecing together
Speaker 2: what was going to say earlier when I was talking
Speaker 2: about the Bible and the Book of Revelations. The one
Speaker 2: thing I'd come out of this depression, if you like,
Speaker 2: and it was self induced from you know, over indulgence
Speaker 2: of you know, the paranormal and stuff like that, as
Speaker 2: I explained earlier. But the one thing that the Eureka
Speaker 2: moment was. The Book of Revelations is a classic UFO abduction,
Speaker 2: which I've gone I've done. I did a radio show
Speaker 2: interview and I had to go back three times. I
Speaker 2: did it three three weeks consecutive weeks of about three
Speaker 2: hours each time to try and explain what my theory was.
Speaker 2: My theory, as far as I'm concerned, makes total sense.
Speaker 2: So this this whole alien and reduction interaiding interaction UFO interaction,
Speaker 2: in my eyes, goes way back throughout history, probably pre
Speaker 2: It's probably something that we've always had. You know, it's
Speaker 2: nothing new, it's not from hasn't never started in nineteen
Speaker 2: forty seven. You know, we've roswell. It was going on
Speaker 2: thousands of years before that. As far as I'm concerned, if.
Speaker 1: You look into the lore of Europe you mentioned like
Speaker 1: the faith. There's been stories long before forty seven. And
Speaker 1: I don't want to throw in the antient astronaut theory
Speaker 1: because the it gets tossed around all the time. But
Speaker 1: I still feel like there is some bit of plausibility
Speaker 1: to that, in the sense of when you look at
Speaker 1: pyramids and how they were built. I understand they claim
Speaker 1: that they were done by slaves and they were being
Speaker 1: pulled by police system. Yeah, okay, that's whatever they can that.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's true, But how do you can how did
Speaker 1: everyone evolve to the point to where there was pyramids
Speaker 1: and China pyramids and Egypt pyramids in South America around
Speaker 1: the same time frame. What made everyone start to just
Speaker 1: start building pyramids?
Speaker 2: Do you want to hear my theory, my ancient astronaut theory?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Right, And I think we're seeing it unfold as we speak.
Speaker 2: We've seen it unfold now. And I'll explain. My belief
Speaker 2: is that thousands of years ago, we've had high technology,
Speaker 2: high you know, advanced civilization. I also believe that we
Speaker 2: probably managed to go off planet, some of us at
Speaker 2: least off planet. Now. If you think today we've got
Speaker 2: people in remote islands that have barely seen another human
Speaker 2: another modern human being, and they still live in as
Speaker 2: fishermen in huts, and that's their way of living. They
Speaker 2: don't even they don't even consider that there's anything other
Speaker 2: than what their island is gives them. And if you
Speaker 2: think back to the World War two, I think it
Speaker 2: was America stationed a lot of their aircraft in the Philippines,
Speaker 2: and when the Filipinos saw all these planes, the consensus
Speaker 2: was that they thought that they were gods. So then
Speaker 2: when the war was over and all these planes left,
Speaker 2: they they wanted the gods to come back. So they
Speaker 2: saw the American airplanes has been piloted by the gods,
Speaker 2: and it's what's known as a cargo cult. And I
Speaker 2: believe that the world at the moment, we've got elon Musk,
Speaker 2: that is, you know, doing these space walks and wanting
Speaker 2: to put humans on Mars. If you think how we've
Speaker 2: evolved over just one hundred years, you know, if you
Speaker 2: think where are we going to be in fifty years,
Speaker 2: We're still going to have people in the Amazon that
Speaker 2: are using bows and arrows to hunt. They're still going
Speaker 2: to be making wicker baskets, while people like billionaires are
Speaker 2: walking on Mars in these million pounds spacesuits. So did
Speaker 2: you see the discrepants between They're the same race of
Speaker 2: human being, but they're Marles apart in their technology.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So you imagine people that have traveled to Mars via
Speaker 2: Elon Musk, billionaires that have traveled to Mars. They're not
Speaker 2: necessarily farmers. They're not necessarily people that know how to
Speaker 2: work the land. Now, imagine if the world was obliterated
Speaker 2: by a comet, and let's say ninety percent of the
Speaker 2: planet was wiped out, and all that's left is remnants
Speaker 2: of what was there before. But yet the people that
Speaker 2: had moved to Mars fifty years before come back, they
Speaker 2: would be considered gods. Now if the people from Mars,
Speaker 2: which aren't Martians, they're from Earth, but they just moved
Speaker 2: to Mars, that have come back to get more supplies
Speaker 2: or you know, and they find that the Earth's being
Speaker 2: obliterated by some comet or a flood or whatever, and
Speaker 2: they find all the basic humans that are just scavengers.
Speaker 2: Now those scavengers will see these people coming in from
Speaker 2: the sky and they will think that they're the savior.
Speaker 2: Now it's human ego to use that for your own advantage.
Speaker 2: So my opinion is that that scenario that I've just
Speaker 2: explained happened tens of thousands of years ago and will
Speaker 2: probably happen again. So the UFOs that we see today
Speaker 2: may not be from another planet, but actually from our
Speaker 2: They could quite well be our ancestors that have moved
Speaker 2: off planet from an earlier catastrophe. It's just it's just
Speaker 2: my kind of theory.
Speaker 1: I've heard something similar to it, and honestly it makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Yeah, but I only start to wonder,
Speaker 1: and this is where it goes back to when people
Speaker 1: say they've been abducted, when they always the descriptions that
Speaker 1: they give of what they see. But when you hear
Speaker 1: people talking about the Nords, the Platians pleading and what
Speaker 1: every want to pronounce them, they're described like us.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's where I struggle with it because obviously I
Speaker 1: don't know. But you hear your grades, you hear your reptili,
Speaker 1: and you hear your insect toil, Like there's all these
Speaker 1: different sort of races out there supposedly, m So does
Speaker 1: that mean that those who are also two or we
Speaker 1: that's from the That's where I don't know, and I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone really does.
Speaker 2: But although my sort of story, if you like, lens
Speaker 2: itself to a possible alien abduction scenario with the you know,
Speaker 2: the Little Workers, the UFO, I've never I will never
Speaker 2: ever say that that's what happened, that I was abducted by.
Speaker 2: I won't ever because there's no proof. The whole abduction
Speaker 2: thing could quite well be a psychological story, could be
Speaker 2: something that is inherent in all of us and just
Speaker 2: comes out through the dream state when certain chemicals are
Speaker 2: released into the body during sleep. You know that that's
Speaker 2: another possibility. The only problem with that theory is that
Speaker 2: you have people that have physical and multiple witnesses to
Speaker 2: things that have happened that you know, people that are
Speaker 2: you know, your classic Betty and Barney Hill that are
Speaker 2: out in the car, that are out in a car
Speaker 2: you know they're driving, and they both witness the same thing.
Speaker 1: I actually had an interview with someone that mentioned that,
Speaker 1: and not to sound I know everyone construes things as
Speaker 1: racism or whatever, but they claim in that interview that
Speaker 1: if you ever notice, you don't hear very many African
Speaker 1: American people being abducted. Yeah, that is the one time
Speaker 1: that that has been documented, you don't ever hear about
Speaker 1: it that often, And I was thinking, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's kind of true. I haven't really
Speaker 1: heard for any like any actual mainstream I don't almost
Speaker 1: say mainstream, but like more known cases of that, like
Speaker 1: Barney seems to be the only one that I can
Speaker 1: think of. And I don't know if that is because
Speaker 1: we're here in America. We only think about it here.
Speaker 1: Like obviously, there's a lot of people around the planet,
Speaker 1: so it's narrow minded to say that doesn't happen, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But just for like pies that
Speaker 1: I've actually heard about, I haven't heard anything about anyone else,
Speaker 1: at least in around America that that's happened to.
Speaker 2: Now that you've just mentioned that, Like I said, I've
Speaker 2: listened to count this podcast of interviews with people that
Speaker 2: have claimed to be abducted and had UFA encounters. Now
Speaker 2: that you've just mentioned that, they're all white people, I
Speaker 2: can't think of any black men, men or woman that
Speaker 2: I've ever listened to. It's always been Is that because
Speaker 2: they they haven't come forward yet, or is that just
Speaker 2: the demographic of the UFO encounter.
Speaker 1: Which is weird in it itself as to why they
Speaker 1: would only want white people, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't make any sense to me either. Like
Speaker 1: I look at it and the sense of what we do. Now,
Speaker 1: imagine if you're out on a boat, and you're trying
Speaker 1: to tag a shark, well, they're gonna do. They're gonna
Speaker 1: tag it, pull it up there, they look at it
Speaker 1: and inspect, then they release it. We do that with
Speaker 1: almost every sort of animal. So if these beans are
Speaker 1: actual beings, kind of in the same sense of what
Speaker 1: they're doing with us, maybe they're picking us up, checking
Speaker 1: us out, tagging us, releasing us, and see what we
Speaker 1: go on and do. Now you've heard the horror stories
Speaker 1: of where they do the hibernation or the all that other,
Speaker 1: like taking babies or whatever for god knows what reasons.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I don't believe in any of that.
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I've never experienced this, so I
Speaker 1: don't rule anything out, But I can't understand why they
Speaker 1: would need us to do that. Unless this kind of
Speaker 1: goes back to what you were saying originally, that maybe
Speaker 1: we're actually offshoots from them, maybe they are us that
Speaker 1: has evolved in space differently, maybe I don't, like I said,
Speaker 1: I just just spitball here. But for me, when it
Speaker 1: comes to all that stuff, it's like, where does this
Speaker 1: What is the point? I guess. And then when you
Speaker 1: look into the fact that it's only seems to be
Speaker 1: white people being abducted, and a lot of the time
Speaker 1: it's the people that have the same blood type. I
Speaker 1: think it's type of negative blood type. It seems to
Speaker 1: be a real common trait between people that get abducted,
Speaker 1: the RH negative.
Speaker 2: That seems to be. I think they seem to have
Speaker 2: the higher percentage of abductees or so called abducteaes, they
Speaker 2: tend have the RH negative blood.
Speaker 1: It's peculiar in the sense because even when I talked
Speaker 1: to another guest that brought this up, and I've, like
Speaker 1: I said, this is my way of putting pieces of
Speaker 1: puzzle together by talking to different people. But I've when
Speaker 1: it comes to cattle mutilations, they think that they use
Speaker 1: the cattle, the thing the things they cut out of them,
Speaker 1: they're using those to grow fetuses. And I thought about
Speaker 1: the fact that all this blood type is a universal
Speaker 1: blood type for humans, so maybe they need those people's
Speaker 1: DNA and their blood to breed these hybrids. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: how they go about doing that's why to take these
Speaker 1: certain people, because they can do that. And if they're
Speaker 1: using the cattle to embryo, create whatever, to incubate these babies,
Speaker 1: these hybrid babies, maybe that's what all this is for.
Speaker 1: But again, what is the point, Like, what are they
Speaker 1: using all these hybrids for?
Speaker 2: If you so I wrote, I've written two UFO books.
Speaker 2: One of them is about my experiences. The other one
Speaker 2: is the link between the Book of Revelations and the
Speaker 2: alien abduction thing. The one thing that you notice in
Speaker 2: the Book of Revelations is that it's the return of
Speaker 2: these gods that come and make the world a better place,
Speaker 2: shall we say? And if you look, if you read
Speaker 2: David Jacob's work, he's he used to do. I don't
Speaker 2: know if he still does it. I think he's probably
Speaker 2: in his eighties now. He used to do a lot
Speaker 2: of regression therapy for abductees in the late eighties. And
Speaker 2: I read his book Secret Life. I think I've still
Speaker 2: got it back in the early nineties, and all the
Speaker 2: accounts that he uncovered the hybrid he uncovered this whole
Speaker 2: hybridization program where these women were being impregnated and then
Speaker 2: they'd carry the butt, the the child for something like
Speaker 2: three months, and then suddenly they the woman would not
Speaker 2: be pregnant anymore, but the fetus would have been taken.
Speaker 2: And I think you just mentioned that you spoke to
Speaker 2: another woman. Was somebody else about this scenario, and I
Speaker 2: think I listened to this. I listened to that podcast
Speaker 2: last week and it was the name Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: That was Laura.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Dave, if you read David Jaco's work, Secret Life,
Speaker 2: he describes how these people, these women go under hypnotic regression,
Speaker 2: they take in their regression, they're taken onto these ships
Speaker 2: and the hybrids that they see are in these cryogenic
Speaker 2: was these you know tubes if you like. So the
Speaker 2: womb you know, the cattle mutilation thing and using the
Speaker 2: wombs of a cattle, I'm not sure if that if
Speaker 2: there's any correlation with that. I've heard. I've heard a
Speaker 2: few stories about cattle mutilations. Again, back in it was
Speaker 2: big in like the eighties and nineties in England. We
Speaker 2: had it where they you know, cattle would be just dissected,
Speaker 2: blood taken, eyes, everything taken surgically, like laser precision I'm
Speaker 2: sure that I listened to a podcast about it, about
Speaker 2: an expert in the field, and I think the consensus
Speaker 2: was that it was almost there wasn't any real point
Speaker 2: to it other than to prove that they had the
Speaker 2: technology to do it, and that was kind of like
Speaker 2: the start and finish of it. There wasn't any much
Speaker 2: There wasn't much of a point to it.
Speaker 1: I seem weird though, that they would just do it
Speaker 1: just to do it, and like, hey, look we can
Speaker 1: do that. Why don't we to just show up down
Speaker 1: here and prove that you exist? Don't Well, it would
Speaker 1: be the secret of that, and that concept doesn't make
Speaker 1: a whole lot of sense to me, But I don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the crop circle, you know, I know,
Speaker 2: I know kind of second third hand people that are
Speaker 2: supposedly involved in creating the crop circles. But then when
Speaker 2: you look at them, the crop circles, and you see
Speaker 2: how quickly they're made and how intricate they are, it
Speaker 2: does kind of make you think, well, after thirty forty
Speaker 2: years of these being made, surely someone somewhere would know
Speaker 2: the secret.
Speaker 1: There's some intricate the ones that I've seen that just
Speaker 1: seems to be impossible, in my opinion, for someone to
Speaker 1: go out there and do in a matter of a
Speaker 1: couple hours. And again, I guess it's cool that you
Speaker 1: did that, and that people are making them like cool
Speaker 1: you made this. Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: no one's going to know, So what's the point. When
Speaker 1: I go back to a lot of things, always try
Speaker 1: and figure out, like, what is the point why there's
Speaker 1: people doing what they're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is one. There is a crop circle that
Speaker 2: is that was an advertised It was an advertisement, But
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't realize that it was an advertisement.
Speaker 2: It was obviously circular, and it had what looked like
Speaker 2: a marijuana leaf in the middle and all these symbols
Speaker 2: on the outside of this crop circle. And I know
Speaker 2: for fact that that was from that was an advertisement
Speaker 2: from a glass a bond company that commissioned it, that
Speaker 2: commissioned this crop circle. But again, people people will believe
Speaker 2: what they want to believe, even even if you tell
Speaker 2: them it's like it. I'll tell you a quick story.
Speaker 2: When I was in this Crop Circles group years and
Speaker 2: years ago, there's all sorts of things that people were
Speaker 2: believe in and stories that were being shared and I
Speaker 2: said to them, look, said, I'll show you how easy
Speaker 2: it is to manipulate people. And I I got this
Speaker 2: picture of the three pyramids and I in photoshop really quickly,
Speaker 2: but three beams of light coming from each tip of
Speaker 2: the pyramids and a post it on this group and
Speaker 2: I said, you know, there you go. That's how easy
Speaker 2: it is. And people started commenting on it, saying, see,
Speaker 2: I told you that the pyramids have these energy beams.
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I said, no, hold on, I said,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you that I created that picture, and they said, well, no,
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't believe you that this looks real
Speaker 2: to me. And I just thought, I'm telling you that
Speaker 2: I created it, and you're still not believing that I
Speaker 2: created it, And it was just it was quite a
Speaker 2: quite an eye opener to what people will believe, right,
Speaker 2: what people want to believe, regardless of the facts.
Speaker 1: I think people are just they're hold on to that
Speaker 1: hope so much, to their beliefs that they're real. And
Speaker 1: then I think we'd mentioned this off airs when I
Speaker 1: get both those of stuff that don't I don't see
Speaker 1: things that people are saying that they see and they
Speaker 1: get mad at me over it because I don't see
Speaker 1: what they're saying. They're seeing it like you're crushing their
Speaker 1: whole belief. So instead of seeing it as well, maybe
Speaker 1: that's not real, and they're like what they blame the
Speaker 1: other people for not being able to accept it, and
Speaker 1: they want to believe it so much that they manifested
Speaker 1: in their own mind. They really are seeing what they're
Speaker 1: seeing and the rest of us don't see it.
Speaker 2: Then, if you think about it, it's the same with
Speaker 2: any education. You know, if you're if you're an archaeologist
Speaker 2: or a scientist, or you're a religious person. You know,
Speaker 2: you think of how many gods there are in how
Speaker 2: many different religions. You try and tell each one of
Speaker 2: these religions, the people that follow these religions that they're
Speaker 2: all wrong because they all believe in that something different,
Speaker 2: so they can't all be right, so they must all
Speaker 2: be wrong. That's how wars are created. You know, if
Speaker 2: you have if you have, science is another religion as
Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned. You know, science will not look
Speaker 2: into certain paranormal things because it can't be a lot
Speaker 2: of paranormal things can't be replicated, so they're not interested
Speaker 2: because that's not science. That doesn't mean say that these
Speaker 2: things don't exist or they don't carry on. It's just
Speaker 2: that science won't touch them because they have their own
Speaker 2: set of rules that they adhere to. Archaeology that's the
Speaker 2: same same sort of thing. You know, Archaeologists will swear
Speaker 2: blind that. Like I say, going back to the Pyramids,
Speaker 2: the pyramids are built for as a tomb, and they
Speaker 2: were built in twenty years or something. And then you know,
Speaker 2: you do the maths on how many blocks are there
Speaker 2: or in each one, and it works out that you'd
Speaker 2: have to be quarrying each block, cutting it, shaping it,
Speaker 2: and moving it into place I think once every two minutes,
Speaker 2: if you go along with what archaeologists tell you. You know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, you get people like Graham Hancock that come
Speaker 2: along and give them a bit more of a a
Speaker 2: different perspective. They're not interested, you know. They they vilified
Speaker 2: his netflix work because it went against the doctrines that
Speaker 2: they'd were trying to hold hold up. Like I said,
Speaker 2: it's the same with religion, So with the UFO field,
Speaker 2: it's no different. You know, people people want to believe,
Speaker 2: because they do believe, they believe that there is something
Speaker 2: other than what is out what is They believe that
Speaker 2: there are you know, moreations out there, which is fine,
Speaker 2: that's but there's no real proof of it. You can
Speaker 2: believe it as much as you like, but there's no proof.
Speaker 2: There's no proof that there's life on other planets. We
Speaker 2: can only presume that, you know, these ships that we're seeing,
Speaker 2: these strange craft and strange creatures, well they must come
Speaker 2: from another planet, because that's what we believe. That's what
Speaker 2: we've been led to believe.
Speaker 1: I had someone trying to I don't love troll is
Speaker 1: the proper term, but I'd made a post recently and
Speaker 1: someone commented on there that this is all fake, nothing, real,
Speaker 1: bunch of bullshit. Their picture and if I guess, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of a creep, but like they were a super
Speaker 1: religious person, so I commented back, being a little heard
Speaker 1: that I can be. I find it very discrediting that
Speaker 1: someone that is believes in the existence of a religion
Speaker 1: a deity. I don't know how properly, I don't know
Speaker 1: the exact way I wanted it, but basically I find
Speaker 1: it strange that someone that believes in non provable deities
Speaker 1: is criticizing what other people claim they experience because you're
Speaker 1: saying it's fake, there's no proof, there's nothing exists, but
Speaker 1: yet you're believing in religion that also has no proof.
Speaker 1: Explain that and then he never responded. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: why are you coming out here to talk shit to
Speaker 1: me and then can't back up a legitimate question.
Speaker 2: The only thing that I will call out are CGI videos, right,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of if you work with CGI, if
Speaker 2: you work with Adobe after effects, you become very CGI
Speaker 2: then becomes very clear when you when you see it,
Speaker 2: and it's the same with AI. You know, I can
Speaker 2: pick out an AI picture very quickly. Other people can't.
Speaker 2: And you know, you'll get into these frack cars with
Speaker 2: people because they're hell bent on withholding that this picture
Speaker 2: is real, and I'm saying to them, it's not real
Speaker 2: because it's AI. You can tell that it's a I
Speaker 2: and they're no, no, no, it's not your your working.
Speaker 2: I've been told that I work for the government because too,
Speaker 2: because you kind of just you just have a little
Speaker 2: bit more knowledge about something and people don't want to
Speaker 2: look stupid. I've got a Facebook a uf it's called
Speaker 2: UFO Discussion Group, and I set it up it's it
Speaker 2: up about ten twelve years ago when I had all
Speaker 2: these things happen, and I only set it up really
Speaker 2: for other experiences, and there was about three hundred people
Speaker 2: on there for quite a few years, and I only
Speaker 2: wanted people on there were that had a story to
Speaker 2: tell them. And then I started getting this influx of
Speaker 2: people that wanted to join the group, so I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll open it up to other people. And there was
Speaker 2: one guy on there who dismissed everything, and I kept
Speaker 2: getting messages from the other people in the group saying,
Speaker 2: why haven't you kicked this guy out? Why are you
Speaker 2: letting him say that this is all rubbish? And I said,
Speaker 2: I'm keeping this person on. I said, because we need
Speaker 2: people like this to challenge what we believe. If you're
Speaker 2: if you're not challenged by a belief, then you're just
Speaker 2: you're You're then in an echo chamber where you're just
Speaker 2: surrounded by yes people that just agree with you, and
Speaker 2: there's nothing outside of that to say, well, what about
Speaker 2: this and what about that? And I don't believe this,
Speaker 2: and I don't believe that. And I said, I welcome that.
Speaker 2: I welcome people that are going to challenge the UFO
Speaker 2: society because there are a lot of fake videos, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of odd stories, and I'm going to sneeze,
Speaker 2: and I just think that, you know, we need, you know,
Speaker 2: respectful people that are going to challenge the narrative, if
Speaker 2: you like, they're going to challenge what's being said, and
Speaker 2: they're going to challenge a theory on UFOs, and they're
Speaker 2: going to challenge me on my beliefs. And I totally
Speaker 2: welcome that because I haven't got the answer, and I'm
Speaker 2: quite happy to change my mind if it's if I
Speaker 2: hear something that is, you know, worthy of taking on board,
Speaker 2: then I'll do that and it may be a little
Speaker 2: bit of information that shifts my perspective a little bit,
Speaker 2: and I'm happy to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like I said, I'm not against anyone or anything,
Speaker 1: and I'm open minded to a lot of stuff. But
Speaker 1: I don't like when people just randomly start attacking other
Speaker 1: people because they have a different set of ideas or beliefs.
Speaker 2: I just just to put just to finish what I
Speaker 2: was saying, I deally I did. I did delete him
Speaker 2: in the end because he did get a bit too
Speaker 2: surety and I thought I've given you the benefit of
Speaker 2: the doubt, you know, to catch you on for quite
Speaker 2: a number of years, you know, he was he was
Speaker 2: always popping up on the discussions and he's always thrown
Speaker 2: like a spanner in the works. And eventually I thought,
Speaker 2: do you know what actually you're You're just being argumentative
Speaker 2: for the sake of it. So yeah, I agree, I
Speaker 2: agree with you there.
Speaker 1: I feel like you mentioned something earlier. I kind of
Speaker 1: said something off air, but someone you mentioned that you're
Speaker 1: a government plant been accusa I was too recently because
Speaker 1: my profile picture is when I was at the Indie
Speaker 1: Popcorn for the Podcast Awards. Oh yeah yeah, and because
Speaker 1: it says Cohn in the background. That is what the
Speaker 1: subliminal messaging was that I was putting out there everyone
Speaker 1: that I'm just a con artist, as like I'm a
Speaker 1: con arst of what oh Christ. So I was getting
Speaker 1: attacked about that, and that's the I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I just deleted block people. I don't even care.
Speaker 2: So you know, I said, I live in Birmingham. So
Speaker 2: in Birmingham, the main symbol, if you like, for Birmingham
Speaker 2: is the ball because we have what's called the ball Ring,
Speaker 2: which is back in pretty two hundred years ago, before
Speaker 2: we had a proper city, it was just all farmlands
Speaker 2: and the ball ring was where people would come and
Speaker 2: bring their livestock to trade and sell whatnot. So the
Speaker 2: ball ring became a symbol of Birmingham. So of course
Speaker 2: Birmingham is the home to Black Sabbath. Obviously, Ozzy Osborne,
Speaker 2: Judas Priest, loads of heavy metal bands and led Echelin
Speaker 2: all that. So the ball they made this, they made
Speaker 2: this giant ball made of mechanical parts and they named
Speaker 2: him Ozzie. Okay, so we've got this giant ball made
Speaker 2: of metal called Aussie and he's got red eyes. Now,
Speaker 2: we had the Olympic and not the what's it called
Speaker 2: the Commonwealth Games a couple of years ago and the
Speaker 2: opening ceremony they had this ball, had the ball come
Speaker 2: out and he had his red eyes. And you know
Speaker 2: the amount of people that commented on Facebook that were
Speaker 2: saying how it was a Satanic ritual and how the
Speaker 2: ball is representative of I think it was bal you know,
Speaker 2: this demon that eats children and this sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And I had to explain to them it's a heritage
Speaker 2: symbol of farmland and they wouldn't have it no, no, no.
Speaker 2: And you know if people want to if people want
Speaker 2: to see something evil in something, they've only got to
Speaker 2: see something red and they're like, oh no, that's that's
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's a plant, that is that's subliminal,
Speaker 2: you know, like your the con thing in your picture. Yeah, people, people.
Speaker 2: The thing is people love something to have a go at.
Speaker 2: They love to be that. A lot of people feel,
Speaker 2: especially in the kind of pseudo spiritual world UFO world,
Speaker 2: they like they like there to be an enemy. They
Speaker 2: want there to be an enemy. It's like when you're
Speaker 2: when you're a child and you want to be rebellious.
Speaker 2: You know, you'll rebel about your rebel against anything. And
Speaker 2: I think it's the same in you know this, you
Speaker 2: know the spiritual world and you know the truth seeker world.
Speaker 2: They want something to take a pop up. They want
Speaker 2: something they want and then they need an enemy so
Speaker 2: they'll find they'll find that enemy somewhere.
Speaker 1: They have to make something just in order to have
Speaker 1: something to be against. I don't understand the mentality, but
Speaker 1: that just seems to be how it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the problem that people like myself have is
Speaker 2: that when you try and explain this to people. You
Speaker 2: then become the target, and you then get accused of
Speaker 2: working for the for the elite, and you're one of them,
Speaker 2: and it's like a circus.
Speaker 1: I've realized in the last two years of actually being
Speaker 1: involved in these communities, and I'm not even involved. I'm
Speaker 1: just a guy that talks to people every now and then.
Speaker 1: But I see it from the outside looking in, it
Speaker 1: is nothing but a giant shit show. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: see nothing but drama. I see nothing but people backstabbing, arguing, fighting.
Speaker 1: Everyone has their own truth in it. If you don't
Speaker 1: agree to that it's the truth when they're in, then
Speaker 1: you're an enemy. And I don't know. Sometimes I question
Speaker 1: why I bother. I guess I question the everything else too,
Speaker 1: So I even question my own sanity sometimes of why
Speaker 1: I continue to do what I do. But here I am.
Speaker 2: I think you're doing a good job.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're doing a good job. And the
Speaker 2: thing is, I mean, you're you're going to get people,
Speaker 2: Like I said, you're off there. You know, for every
Speaker 2: one hundred people that you interview, there's going to be
Speaker 2: someone that's going to strike a chord that's going to
Speaker 2: shift your perspective, you know, in a different direction, which
Speaker 2: will make your question, you know, even more. You know,
Speaker 2: the more answers you get, the more quite what's the phrase,
Speaker 2: The more answers you get, the more questions.
Speaker 1: Basically, the more answers that I've been looking for, the
Speaker 1: more questions I come out with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I've said that at a time or two, I was like,
Speaker 1: I started this one to find answers, and I've been
Speaker 1: left with more questions than anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like what I said to you, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's loads of little stories that I
Speaker 2: didn't add in this this talk that we're having lots
Speaker 2: of little things where like, for instance, when when I decide,
Speaker 2: there's quite a few times over the past sort of
Speaker 2: fifteen twenty years that I've come away from the UFO
Speaker 2: community and I've just wanted to live a normal life
Speaker 2: and just you know, watch crap TV and just listen
Speaker 2: to just ship music, and just be quote unquote normal
Speaker 2: and just do normal things. And within a week or
Speaker 2: two shift in my brain pattern something I'll have some
Speaker 2: kind of experience where oh see something or something will
Speaker 2: happen that will draw me back in and it's as
Speaker 2: if they say, uhh, you're not going anywhere, not until
Speaker 2: you've done what. The other thing that I failed to
Speaker 2: mention is when I was a kid growing up, I
Speaker 2: always felt as if I had a mission to do
Speaker 2: something within the UFO world. And I think the more
Speaker 2: people you talk to that are experiences, if you like,
Speaker 2: you'll find that they all have a mission. They feel
Speaker 2: that they have a mission to accomplish. And I feel
Speaker 2: like my mission was to do with the Bible and
Speaker 2: the UFO connection, and so I've done that, and it's
Speaker 2: like now I don't need to I don't need that validation.
Speaker 2: I don't need to see UFOs. I don't need to
Speaker 2: I don't need to have that interaction anymore. You know,
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people that they're still chasing,
Speaker 2: you know, this thing. They're still you know, doing the
Speaker 2: C five protocols. You know, they're going out and they're
Speaker 2: trying as hard as they can to capture that elusive,
Speaker 2: you know, flashing light in the sky.
Speaker 1: I just hope they're not paying ten thousand dollars for
Speaker 1: dinner with Steven Greer. No, I'm pretty sure I said
Speaker 1: that on the last episode I recorded to.
Speaker 2: The people that I know, I don't think they have
Speaker 2: ten ten ten pounds to spend on on anything, let
Speaker 2: alone ten grand that again, you know, if you if
Speaker 2: you're I used to run a remote viewing group as
Speaker 2: well a number of years ago, and I think we
Speaker 2: paid I charged I think it was I think four
Speaker 2: or five pounds, because what happened was we started to
Speaker 2: get odd bods that would just sort of rock up
Speaker 2: and wouldn't be wouldn't want to be part of the group,
Speaker 2: but they'll be part of the group, but they didn't
Speaker 2: know what the group was about. And we thought, right,
Speaker 2: we need to have some kind of you know, we
Speaker 2: need to charge people a minimal amount, just you know,
Speaker 2: just to show that we're doing something legitimate that isn't just.
Speaker 1: A people what sorry, kind of weeding out the ones
Speaker 1: that aren't really there to learn anything or try anything.
Speaker 1: They're just there to be there exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that was that was a fair
Speaker 2: I mean that that money just went back into buying
Speaker 2: you know, paper and pens and stuff like that, and
Speaker 2: petrol to go home.
Speaker 1: Yeah. We have been going on for almost two hours,
Speaker 1: so it is probably getting close to four thirty year time.
Speaker 2: It's ten past four now, I'm wide.
Speaker 1: Awake, I'm getting tires, I have working on.
Speaker 3: I've gone past I've gone past that stage, and I've
Speaker 3: got past the stage jump.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep you awake now, you can try, but
Speaker 1: I've got I've got little kids. I've got to deal
Speaker 1: with here soon. My son is very much a daddy's boy,
Speaker 1: so when he wakes up in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: I am the person that he screams for.
Speaker 2: So so it's going to be it's got to be
Speaker 2: what ten past eleven? Now were yours? It?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it says it's a eleven twelve PM. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: usually in bed by eleven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm usually in bed by eleven.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so i gotta get up and give it.
Speaker 1: I'm up in about five hours from now, five to
Speaker 1: six hours from now, I'm usually I'm awake. But honestly,
Speaker 1: he decides to wake up, usually around midnight for some reason,
Speaker 1: he wants to get up out of his and I
Speaker 1: have to go get him and bring him into beds.
Speaker 1: So by the time I get in there, he'll probably
Speaker 1: start screaming for me. That's how my routine goes with him.
Speaker 1: But we can probably go ahead and wrap this one
Speaker 1: up if there's not much else you want to talk about.
Speaker 1: If there is, I mean, I'm good to go.
Speaker 2: It's I mean, I could, I could fill in a
Speaker 2: lot of blanks, but I think you know, if your
Speaker 2: listeners want to get in touch and you know, find
Speaker 2: out any any any more about little bits that I've missed,
Speaker 2: or if they want if they've got stories that they
Speaker 2: want to tell me that I can kind of piece
Speaker 2: together if they're similar to my experiences, you know, and feel.
Speaker 1: Free if you want to send me any links or
Speaker 1: anything you have, or email address or however they can
Speaker 1: get ahold of you. I'll make sure you leave that
Speaker 1: in the show notes. That way, anyone listening can reach
Speaker 1: out to you.
Speaker 2: Well. If I mean, like I say, my name is
Speaker 2: Leith Thatcher spelled l E I g H. If you
Speaker 2: just see some long haired guy, you won't you won't
Speaker 2: go far wrong. It's a girl spelling as well, so
Speaker 2: there's not many leath archers of the Yeah, you'll find
Speaker 2: me if you just type my name hing.
Speaker 1: Ollie. It's been a pleasure talking with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been really good. Thanks for having me on Brandon.
Speaker 1: Not a problem. And for anyone out there listening, just
Speaker 1: wanted to say thanks to Lee and thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna head on out, so good night, everybody.
Speaker 2: Good night.
Speaker 1: If you would like to be a guest on Tinfoil Tels,
Speaker 1: remember to send an email the Tinfoil Tells Podcast at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com, or you can also go to tinfoiltales
Speaker 1: dot com and go to the contact section. Just make
Speaker 1: sure to reach out and get a hold of me
Speaker 1: and we will get something to schedule for a future episode.
Speaker 1: You can also find ten Foil Tales on Facebook and Instagram.
Speaker 1: Just look for ten Foil Tales podcast. Reach out to
Speaker 1: me that way too. Remember to share the show around.
Speaker 1: Word of mouth is the best way to help the
Speaker 1: show grow, and just remember truth comes at cost. Are
Speaker 1: you willing to pay the price.