WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.160 We oftentimes say to a lot of our customers, rat 2 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:04.240 is a symptom of success. You know, if you have 3 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:08.519 a really really great product or ecosystem, then users or 4 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:10.919 bad actors will try to circumvent and do all sorts 5 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.080 of things in order to achieve things that the system 6 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:16.719 does not want them to. Let's say twenty thirty fast 7 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:22.000 forward five years, what does securing digital assets and platforms 8 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:24.719 look like to you? We're going to see a lot 9 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:28.719 of these really, really really complicated networks created over the 10 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:36.600 next couple of years. This episode is brought to you 11 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:39.600 by I Trust Capital. 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Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. 44 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:32.800 I'm your host Tony Edward and joining me today, is itdo, Benatton, 45 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:36.280 who is the co founder and CEO of Blockade. You know, 46 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.960 great to have you, Tony. Great to be here. You know, 47 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:43.759 excited to dive into Blockade because you are playing a 48 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:48.240 critical role in securing transactions and platform and security is 49 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:51.439 so important with this asset class. So I'm excited to 50 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.280 dive into the details. But let's start with your background. 51 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.759 Where are you from and what's your professional background? Yeah, 52 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:02.199 so I grew up in California. Yeah, my parents or Israeli. 53 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:06.240 They moved there for work, both engineers, a group around computers. 54 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.000 My whole life was programming since a really early age. 55 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.479 And then we moved back when I was a little 56 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.120 over sixteen, drafted to these cyber intelligence units if you're 57 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:21.400 familiar with, in the Israeli Army, and then served there 58 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.039 for a little over six years, primarily working on solving 59 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:27.960 you know, and finding vulnerabilities and modern operating systems browsers. 60 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:32.240 And my last gig was around kind of cryptographic implementations 61 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:34.560 where I spent most of my time. So that's where 62 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.879 kind of the level for cryptography came. A ton of 63 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:40.400 team members ended up either starting companies or working for 64 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:44.520 companies that operate kind of in the crypto space. Being 65 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:48.479 kind of an incredible application for for cryptography, and so 66 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.280 kind of leading up to finishing our service together with 67 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.360 my co founder Roz, you know, we wanted to do 68 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:56.800 something in the space. We thought it was incredibly exciting. 69 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:59.599 You know, we became really passionate throughout our military service 70 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:03.439 for like just users just like being U users in 71 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:07.080 the space. Sought tons of parallels to we're both kind 72 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:09.719 of computer networking nerds, so soft tons of parallels to 73 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:13.560 the early days of like computer networking, and so we 74 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.000 want to do something in crypto. We talked to everyone 75 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.639 we possibly could. They told us security was a massive problem, 76 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.800 and so that's what you built. And it's been almost 77 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:27.480 three years since. That's incredible. Obviously, your pedigree being in security, 78 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.560 cryptography and much more, and starting this seems like such 79 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.600 a natural evolution of your skill sets and so for good. 80 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:37.399 But I'm curious, what was like your first encounter with 81 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.560 bitcoin or and maybe etherem or whatever it may be, 82 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.920 and what was your AHA moment to say, wait a minute, 83 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.839 this is something and we should go build into space. 84 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.399 Oh man, this is pretty early on. There were there 85 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:51.680 were a couple of I guess there were three phases 86 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.079 in my life where where these things happened. I'll talk 87 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:58.959 about two, maybe not the first. The first I was 88 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:03.480 pretty young. One of them was, UH was around kind 89 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:07.480 of early days of of of kind of my cybersecurity 90 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:11.519 career before I got drafted, right, you know, spend time 91 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.519 with UH, with different folks in the industry that were 92 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.759 kind of you know, either building or playing with malware 93 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.759 UH and kind of understanding how these things, what kind 94 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:25.600 of how they kind of interact and operate and UH 95 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:30.079 and through ransomwares and and and also kind of you know, 96 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.480 how how these things are purchased and acquired. You know, 97 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:34.879 not a great highlight of crypto and I don't I 98 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:38.279 don't think a popular one today, but you know, that 99 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:40.879 was one of the one of the early UH for ways. 100 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.399 And then again, you know what happened you know continuously 101 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:45.600 kind of throughout my military service, where you know, you 102 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.600 deal with with kind of cryptography and finding vulnerabilities and 103 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:54.399 cryptographic implementations and so you know, whenever there are you know, 104 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:58.879 questions about crypto right in these like units, in these places, 105 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.279 they they bubble up in these two teams like the 106 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.439 one that I was on, And so while while not 107 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.240 a critical or main part of my role was a 108 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:10.879 was always kind of adjacent or kind of came up. 109 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:13.759 But I think the love of it came from just 110 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:17.279 you know, loving cryptography, understanding the space, and kind of 111 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:19.199 going in and into kind of a deeper and deeper 112 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:22.600 hole into how how these things work technically. Oh absolutely, 113 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.279 And I can imagine that you guys started getting maybe 114 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:29.279 bombarded with like lots of crypto stuff as the use 115 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:32.279 of it started growing. It's obviously matured as an acid 116 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.360 class in technology. But uh, whether it be good actors, 117 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:37.879 bad actors, everybody started using it in one way or 118 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:42.519 the other. Yeah, I think ultimately, like you know, the vast, vast, 119 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:46.879 vast majority of users in the space are net positive, right. 120 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.720 You know, I come from a cybersecurity background, so obviously 121 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.160 I have to wear that that that kind of that hat. 122 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.399 But uh, but yeah, one hundred percent. Like, uh, I 123 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.720 think as the space has grown over the past couple 124 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:04.839 of years, you know, we we have definitely seen a 125 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.199 critical shift kind of and how people think about security, 126 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.120 how people, uh, you know, address security challenges, how the 127 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.959 ecosystem kind of handles and deals with incidents h and 128 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.199 I think they will just persist right as the space 129 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.160 becomes more mature, as things, you know, continue to evolve, 130 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:25.360 we will see organizations that will uplift the entire ecosystem 131 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:30.720 and entire industry and how security standards are implemented and 132 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:35.560 how security is treated and ultimately I think, you know, 133 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:37.600 in a very very just and meaningful way, because when 134 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:40.199 you think about at least today, the products that are 135 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.600 built on top of crypto rails are ultimately financial products. 136 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:46.959 And and when you think about financial products, a lot 137 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.319 of the reasons and differentiation that people choose to use 138 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:54.480 certain financial products as opposed to others is is security. 139 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:55.759 And so I think it's you know, a really really 140 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:00.759 critical piece of not only you know, not only finance, 141 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:05.079 but also also crypto holistically. Oh absolutely, so on a note, 142 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:07.959 give us an overview Blockade. What's your mission and what 143 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:11.079 are the different services you offer? Yeah, so Blockade works 144 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.160 with some of the biggest companies in the space to 145 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:17.360 protect them and their users from broad fishing, different kind 146 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:20.240 of hacks across the space. Right. The way that we 147 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.399 think about these things and categorize them is both in 148 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:28.240 terms of what we would consider low value high volume incidents. Right. 149 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:32.720 This is like your fishing links, your scam tokens, your 150 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.159 users that are defrauded in whatever ways. These are generally 151 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.480 smaller amounts but happen all the time, you know, death 152 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:42.320 by a thousand paper cuts. And the other bucket that 153 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:46.240 we think about are high value, low volume incidents. Right. 154 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.960 They have been all too frequently, but generally higher ticket 155 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.200 items affect product. This is like a smart contract that 156 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:55.559 gets hacked that blows up. This is a you know, 157 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:58.759 even you know, even a phishing incident, right, which is 158 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:01.360 kind of like bibit or like a broader cybersecurity incident, 159 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:04.399 and many many others. Right. And so we think about 160 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:08.320 both of these categories as the total attack landscape and 161 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:11.559 the total kind of total attack vectors are encapsula encapsulated 162 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.759 within that, and Blockade aims to cover that. Holistically. You 163 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:17.799 can kind of think about the technology we built as 164 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:20.080 like this engine that's able to look at transactions or 165 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.440 look at entities on the blockchain as they interact with 166 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.159 the space and then alert and find various different incidents 167 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.840 and hacks before they take place. Right, So key examples 168 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:32.919 of this are like our work with with meta mask 169 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.559 and coinbase to flag various different you know, malicious transactions 170 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:40.240 before users interact with them, or it's with you know, 171 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:43.399 our partners like you know today we announced with HDERA 172 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.120 and and we work very closely like with mystan and 173 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.759 other kind of major protocols in the space to kind 174 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.399 of monitor and find various different exploits across their space 175 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:56.480 and prevent those from happening across different kind of smart 176 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:59.000 contracts and things like that as well too. So really 177 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.279 really kind of taking that kind of core technology and 178 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:03.840 enabling you know, us to prevent these kinds of incidents 179 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:09.360 both high value and low value but higher volume in 180 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:15.559 kind of one holistic solution. So you have solutions for exchanges, wallets, 181 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.519 blockchain protocols. It sounds like right because you're working with 182 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:21.240 all these different folks like coin based, metamass, mist and 183 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:26.080 so far the hash graph. So breakdown at which layer 184 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.279 you are, you know, where where does blockade fit in 185 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:31.919 the tech sect if you want to call it that, 186 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:34.840 Where you are able to monitor these things? Is it 187 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:40.080 an API integration. Is it reviewing the email server? I 188 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.000 don't know, you know, wek us through that process. Yeah, 189 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:45.279 so technically I think it's it's it's pretty similar. We 190 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.279 sit everywhere transactions flow, and so we can look at 191 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.360 blockchains passively, right just by reading the mempool or you know, 192 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:56.399 indexing the chain, understanding various different transactions will take place, 193 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.720 obviously contextualizing them to our customers and what they care about. 194 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:05.240 We can sit as it's kind of like an add 195 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.360 on to a wallet, right, so, this would be by 196 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:12.159 integrating with various different custodian solutions or self cusodian solutions 197 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.960 like noses, safe fire blocks, squads and Salana and others, 198 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.240 and basically living in that transaction flow as like another 199 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:23.960 approver that basically goes and views, simulates validates transactions, runs 200 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.279 it through kind of our policy engine, and kind of 201 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.039 spits back, right should this be, should you execute this 202 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:31.519 or not? And then we also sit inside directly inside 203 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.399 of consumer wallets, right so, and we kind of simulate 204 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.240 validate transactions in those cases as well. And we also 205 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:42.360 work with different exchanges to prevent fraud in different interfaces, 206 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:47.559 for example, like the withdrawal functionality preventing push payment fraud 207 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:49.240 and things like that. So that's kind of like a 208 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.080 high level overview. But can you can generally plug blockade 209 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:57.679 in anywhere transactions flow? Interesting? I mean, you guys, like 210 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:00.360 I said at the beginning, such a critical part of 211 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.120 the infrastructure of this acid class and you know, with 212 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.679 building trust and we've seen so many hacks and exploits 213 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.879 over the years and people getting caught up in fishing scams. 214 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:12.840 We need more of what you're doing to get this 215 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:18.159 industry up to par, maybe with how TRADFI has, you know, 216 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.159 run things. But look, TRADFI, there's bad actors in every industry, 217 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.399 and but I think TRADFI has less because they've gone 218 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:29.720 through all the iterations of scams. So maybe what are 219 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:33.919 the common scams and vulnerabilities that you're seeing and maybe 220 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.120 if you can highlight some examples that you stopped. So 221 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:39.759 I think this is actually a misnomer, right, I think 222 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.159 there's actually much more bad actors using dollars than there 223 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.679 are bad actors using stable coins, right, I mean, when 224 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:48.639 you think about it, it just doesn't make sense. Like 225 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.320 think about like, let's assume for a second, you know Tony, 226 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.879 you and meet your money launderers, right, and we're we're 227 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.120 doing some nefarious stuff and we're trying and we made 228 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.039 a bunch of cash and now we're trying to you know, 229 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.399 wash that. Right. You think it's a good idea to 230 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:05.240 go and take a million bucks somehow get it into 231 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.320 coinbase and then from there, I don't know, move it 232 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.720 to some sort of mixer and then from there move 233 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:12.919 it to a different exchange only to get it back 234 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.240 into cash. Like, I don't know. It just doesn't like 235 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.600 you go through too many areas of traceability and kind 236 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.679 of friction. In my mind, you know, the data we 237 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:28.559 see is that most of the illicit activity and crypto 238 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.080 comes from crypto. What that means is that it comes 239 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:36.039 from cybersecurity incidents. Cybersecurity incidents that granted could be adjacent 240 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.399 to crypto, like ransomware and things like that. It comes 241 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:42.360 from hacks to different protocols or users. It comes or exchanges, 242 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:47.360 you know, it comes from scams that sometimes onboard victims 243 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.559 that aren't are related to crypto to these rails because 244 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:53.759 they're better forms of payment infrastructure. And that's where the 245 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.639 majority of the illicit activity comes from. In my mind, 246 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:01.440 Sorry for maybe for maybe taking us off a tangent here. 247 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:03.960 But but so you know, I think as a percentage 248 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.440 of general activity of illicit actors, crypto is a very 249 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:10.039 small piece of that, right, And I think tradfy while 250 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:14.320 it has tried to you know, uh you know, you know, 251 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:19.320 I think ultimately has not zeroed this out. Right. We 252 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:21.799 oftentimes say to a lot of our customers, like, fraud 253 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.840 is a symptom of success. Uh if you you know, 254 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:30.200 if you have a really really great product or ecosystem, 255 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.559 then users or bad actors will try to circumvent and 256 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.720 do all sorts of things in order to achieve things 257 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.480 that the system does not want them to, right. I 258 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:43.759 think you know we can uh uh, you know, simple 259 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.080 things is just like kids cutting in line, right, you 260 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.720 know there's a line they you know. Sometimes it's not 261 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.919 even with like super nefarious activity like in activity in mind. 262 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:53.919 You just want to do something that the system otherwise 263 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:58.919 doesn't want you to do, and so and so. So. Yeah, 264 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.519 fraud is like a it's like, you know, it's something 265 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.120 we want to squash, but it's generally like a symptom 266 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:08.639 of success. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, if you're 267 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:10.919 having success, you become an instant target. Right, you get 268 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.200 this turn exactly exactly. I read that you guys have 269 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:18.759 scanned uh like two point four billion transactions in the 270 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:24.000 last year. How are you able to maintain the you know, 271 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.200 tell us a bit about your team and your operations 272 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:30.440 to handle big clients like coinbase and you mentioned a 273 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.120 hash graph and then working with metamass and I think 274 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:37.159 there was also Gemini at the crypto exchange. Yeah, how 275 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.279 are you able to handle that? Yeah, we processed a 276 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.919 ton of transactions. We process I think like a couple 277 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.360 months ago, it was over five hundred million transactions on 278 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:52.519 a given month. And so you know, when you think 279 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.639 about our team, right, one we served with some of 280 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:59.039 the world's kind of best hackers in these like cyber 281 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:04.279 intelligence units that have built you know, uh software to 282 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.919 kind of interact and kind of that that is deployed 283 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.399 across you know, the country's uh most critical missions. And 284 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.519 so you know that same team is is the one 285 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.720 behind you know, this really critical piece of infrastructure that's 286 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:20.919 able to secure probably most end users today and a 287 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:25.519 lot of applications, right, And so you know, we we 288 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.159 build things in mind in a way where it's like, 289 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.799 you know, we know some of ours, our earliest customers. 290 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:31.519 You know, we're some of the largest companies in the space, 291 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:33.320 and so it's basically forced us to build things in 292 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.039 a way that is incredibly scalable and and is able 293 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:39.559 to kind of support their build their their kind of 294 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.440 their growth and their you know, in their user base. 295 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.360 What obviously becomes harder over time is is as obviously 296 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.519 security threats you know, target these different kind of customers 297 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:54.799 across our network, is understanding and piecing those things together 298 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.559 and you know, closing those gaps incredibly quickly and making 299 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.320 sure our customers are secure in the most meaningful way possible. 300 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.400 But that that thing that is really hard also makes 301 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.720 the product really great because because we see these threat 302 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:12.640 actors across the the you know, the extent of our network, 303 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.559 we're able to go and really really quickly apply all 304 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.799 those different security learnings to all of our customers basically instantly. 305 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.799 And so you know, when one when one more kind 306 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.680 of customer joins, for example, like we announced a you know, 307 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:28.759 hash graft today and we announced Gemini today, so they 308 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.279 benefit from that extensive power of the broader network that 309 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.000 we have in our kind of ecosystem, and so it's 310 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.400 it's really really great to see how that's been playing out. 311 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.240 Oh sure, so you can essentially share learnings like oh hey, 312 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.640 coinbase got attacked with In this way, you can automatically 313 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:48.200 alert the other exchanges to watch out for X or Y, 314 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:51.200 whatever it may be. It's almost implicit, right, It's like, 315 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.319 uh uh, you know, our engine takes these different threats, 316 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.559 understands them, and then applies them holistically to everyone, right, 317 00:17:58.640 --> 00:17:59.839 And so it's you know, we don't have to go 318 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:03.279 and call anyone up right, It's it's like, uh, it 319 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.640 just kind of happens. Interesting, Are you providing any type 320 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:09.960 of security training to these firms as well? So we 321 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.039 work really really closely with our customers right on slack, 322 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.559 on telegram with them twenty four hours a day, you know, 323 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.599 three sixty five. Many of our customers see us as 324 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:25.160 like an extension of their security team. And so, you know, 325 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:28.440 while well we don't have any courses on YouTube today 326 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.680 or things like that, I think I think a lot 327 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.119 of our customers will say that, you know, we we 328 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.720 we spend a ton of time with them and and 329 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:41.880 work to educate them, and we put a ton of 330 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:45.000 content right like across the space about new and novel 331 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.319 kinds of techniques and hacks. So not only our customers too, 332 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.160 but also you know, independent people or people across the 333 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.519 industry or ecosystem that you know want to benefit from 334 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:56.480 from these kinds of learnings. Yeah, for sure. Two part question, 335 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.960 are you using AI in any way to help assist 336 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:05.079 in managing the securities for these platforms? And two do 337 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.640 you see AI agents or so being a threat and 338 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:14.599 also introducing new securities, threats and vulnerabilities. Yeah, I think 339 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:16.519 it's core to everything we do, right, Like you know, 340 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.720 whether that's in our detection capabilities, understanding what transactions you 341 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.400 know are going to do, Understanding various different types of 342 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.920 threats and uncovering those, whether that's across our understanding of 343 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.680 various different other attack factors that are adjacent to the space. 344 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.640 You know, we go through this extensive process of scanning 345 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.480 websites to find various different threat actors that are leveraging 346 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.200 those four scams for fraud, for all sorts of different things. 347 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.160 And so we definitely use various different AI agents and 348 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.359 lms to basically, you know, understand what these sites are 349 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.160 doing and categorize them in different ways. And of course 350 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.359 it's in our development process and how we kind of 351 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.960 go and write code and execute and ship things much 352 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.799 much faster. So, yeah, AA is core to everything that 353 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.079 we do across our company as far as you know, 354 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:05.440 you could think about, you know, how AI empowers attackers 355 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.359 is actually pretty pretty sophistics. It's pretty crazy, right, Like one, 356 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.119 it's much easier to build malware and build you know 357 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.039 software today, and so just like deploying new and novel 358 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.839 variants of various different things just gets that much easier, right, 359 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.960 and so that game of cat and mouse just you 360 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.640 know accelerates in the bar to entry just lowers. We 361 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.720 went through kind of a funny exercise right internally, how 362 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.759 quickly can you go and kind of spin up you know, 363 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.720 fake phishing website and kind of do this thing. How 364 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.000 quickly can you go and see some sort of like 365 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:35.519 you know, uh, you know, smart contract that's exploited, copy 366 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.440 the attacker byte code, and then kind of repurpose it 367 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.000 for your own from your own use, Right, you can 368 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.039 use these oul on agents really really quickly to kind 369 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.319 of go and and build these things out and so 370 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.200 and so definitely it's lowered the bar for for attackers 371 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.400 to enter the space one hundred percent and so I 372 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:54.839 think that you know, all security teams, not only in 373 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.519 crypto but across kind of the entire the entire world, 374 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.759 you know, need to understand that that it's just become 375 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:02.480 easier to do the thing is that you could in 376 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.599 the past. And so we think the result of that 377 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.480 is just that there will be more of them and 378 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.359 so and so and and when when we see that 379 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.759 in practice. Yeah, And most recently, I think it was 380 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:17.640 on Reddit, I saw someone post a fishing site a 381 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.920 clone of coin base, and I think I don't know 382 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.559 if the person the person identified it, and they were saying, 383 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.799 this is probably generated by AI, whatever it may be, 384 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:31.960 because it it looks so similar like they usually sometimes 385 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.920 if you're a bit sophisticated, you can see some flaws 386 00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:38.799 on the on the page and so forth. Right, But AI, 387 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.400 to your point, will help make it easier lower to 388 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.319 barrier entry and to spin these fishing sites up and 389 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.359 and it will be perfect in a sense of an 390 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:50.160 exact clone. Yeah, one hundred percent. Like we see this 391 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.759 all the time. It takes seconds to do. Uh, it's uh. 392 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.920 And so like I said, it's just become easier, uh, 393 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.599 And so we'll see many, many more of them. You know, 394 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:04.480 in comparison to other security firms in the industry, what 395 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:06.920 what are your differentiators and where do you think you 396 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.079 have the advantage? And you know, on maybe a two 397 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.079 fold question, there is also you know, what's your vision? 398 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.079 Do you do you want to see Blockade B kind 399 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.559 of that security layer for all Web three transactions? Yeah, 400 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.720 I think it's a great question. You know, I think holistically, 401 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.799