Speaker 1: The story of Tim Bosma, a hard working husband and father,
Speaker 1: is a haunting tale of an ordinary man whose life
Speaker 1: was cut short during what should have been a simple transaction,
Speaker 1: reminding us all of the importance of personal safety in
Speaker 1: an increasingly interconnected world.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim, a.
Speaker 1: True crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Semial listener just question that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're back, We're back.
Speaker 2: Vacation is over.
Speaker 1: Bright eyed and bushy tailed, We're back.
Speaker 2: I don't know if i'd say that. I'm not too
Speaker 2: sure if I'd say I'm bright eyed and bushy eyed
Speaker 2: or whatever you said.
Speaker 1: Right now detailed? Is that? How what the saying is?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Now, Shoot, did I just get it wrong? Honestly, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2: I don't really care anyways.
Speaker 1: And bushy tailed?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, right, bright eye and bushy tailed, okay, like
Speaker 2: a cunning fox or a hyperactive squirrel perhaps maybe?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, thank you for allowing us to have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a break.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was much needed. Could have been way longer,
Speaker 2: if I'm being honest, But I am so happy to
Speaker 2: be back doing this. Miss missed this, missed you guys.
Speaker 2: I missed researching. I missed, well, I didn't miss hearing
Speaker 2: about people dying constantly, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually it was kind of It was nice having
Speaker 1: a break from that.
Speaker 2: There was something missing in her life.
Speaker 1: But there was something missing, Yeah, there really was. So
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good being back now.
Speaker 1: And October is wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Halloween Week is coming up quick. We sat down
Speaker 2: the other day and we had a one on one
Speaker 2: meeting on our kitchen counter and our tiny home yep,
Speaker 2: and for it was probably almost two hours.
Speaker 1: We had a two and a half hour meeting. It
Speaker 1: was two and a half.
Speaker 2: We had a two and a half.
Speaker 1: Only one hour was in regards to Wicket and Gram.
Speaker 2: The other hour and a half I thought it was
Speaker 2: longer than that. We talked about wicket Ingrim like an
Speaker 2: hour and a half maybe, I don't know. Anyway, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: It was a long ass meeting.
Speaker 2: But we talked about like a lot of wicked and
Speaker 2: grim and there was a big chunk of that that
Speaker 2: was like dedicated to how we're approaching Halloween Week this year.
Speaker 1: M h.
Speaker 2: So there's some plans, there's some cool shit gonna happen.
Speaker 2: We're stoked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2: It gonna be good. You can quote that from Nicole
Speaker 2: right now, you've heard it here first. It going to
Speaker 2: be good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's kind of awesome in the sense
Speaker 1: that we'll be having a episode coming on the Tuesday,
Speaker 1: like the normal episode, and then Halloween Week just carries
Speaker 1: on from that. Yep, and then.
Speaker 2: It lands on the Tuesday, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: I think so? And then there's also gonna be like
Speaker 1: a Patreon episode, So it's just gonna be like a
Speaker 1: shit ton of Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 2: And not only is there gonna be a shit ton
Speaker 2: of Wicked and Grim, but the day Halloween Week starts,
Speaker 2: guess what else? What Fearful? Yes, season two baby, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are overdoing an update on that.
Speaker 2: We are. We've had a lot of people requesting Fearful
Speaker 2: come back and being like, when's it coming back. It's
Speaker 2: coming back for Halloween Week, Okay, so get ready for
Speaker 2: that drop. It's gonna be a massive Halloween Week this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Fearful is a little bit different than Wicked
Speaker 1: and Grim in the sense that it's not gonna be
Speaker 1: really there's not gonna be a new episode every week.
Speaker 1: It's going to be more seasons and like a binge
Speaker 1: binge amount dropped at one time.
Speaker 2: So with like us, what we do is every Tuesday
Speaker 2: we release an episode with Fearful. It's basically a project
Speaker 2: where on the side, when we find the time, we
Speaker 2: are researching extra episodes and Jacko, being as awesome as
Speaker 2: he is, he presents those episodes and we get several
Speaker 2: episodes at once and just basically boom drop it. Here's
Speaker 2: a season, just like Netflix does to you, and you
Speaker 2: just binge the whole season and then you wait for
Speaker 2: season whatever to come out whenever.
Speaker 1: Honestly, not healthy, it's.
Speaker 2: Totally not It's like an abusive relationship.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, So yeah, we have a good case today.
Speaker 1: Well it's not a good case, but it's a good case,
Speaker 1: and we have some patrons to thank before.
Speaker 2: That though, we do. I'm just gonna pull up the
Speaker 2: list here, So first and foremost, I do want to
Speaker 2: thank you guys who are coming back to listen to
Speaker 2: us right now after our month long hiatus, over one
Speaker 2: hundred and forty episodes and we never took like a
Speaker 2: of real break, So thank you for coming back, and
Speaker 2: thank you to our patrons who stuck around during that,
Speaker 2: and thank you to those who still signed up even
Speaker 2: though we weren't rolling out with episode that whole month.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So well they're getting two episodes. Okay, so they're
Speaker 1: getting our normal episode dropped today Tuesday, ye, and then
Speaker 1: two Patreon episodes. Yeah, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2: Two Patreon exclusive episodes are getting dropped this same day,
Speaker 2: so they're gonna be uh rocking three Wicked and Grims today.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the list of individuals who are oh so awesome
Speaker 2: over on Patreon that we got to thank We have Bethany,
Speaker 2: we have Maya, Gwyneth Douglas, Mercedes Parrot, Kristin Lehman, Scarlett Ross,
Speaker 2: Charlotte Patrick, Melissa Leva, and Kay Smith. All those amazing
Speaker 2: people signed up over on Patreon and are supporting us there.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
Speaker 1: That's a good list of people.
Speaker 2: It is some awesome people over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I'm ready to dive
Speaker 2: into this case. Like now I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I'm presenting today you are holy shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that time off got us some availability for Nicole. Yeah,
Speaker 2: some episode research done, so.
Speaker 1: So we're back. I'm back, let's go. This might be
Speaker 1: like a freakin slippery slope because I haven't done this
Speaker 1: in a while, so you know, it could be a
Speaker 1: Donnelly repeat if you know, you know. So, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a Canadian story. This I'm going back to my
Speaker 1: roots of you know what. The beginning, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do mostly Canadian stories. Yeah, and so I'm
Speaker 1: doing a Canadian story.
Speaker 2: I'm stoked for this one because this is one of
Speaker 2: those stories where it's like it needs to be a
Speaker 2: staple in the true crime world. Oh yeah, the more
Speaker 2: that we talk about this case, I think the better.
Speaker 2: It's not only good for, of course, the victims, but
Speaker 2: it's good awareness for everyone out there listening.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. It was covered pretty extensively nationally, like within Canada.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how much it was. It was covered internationally,
Speaker 1: so it could be a new case, but it's also
Speaker 1: a newer case in comparison to some of the cases
Speaker 1: we've covered. I feel like any case over two thousand
Speaker 1: is new ish, And I don't know if that dates me,
Speaker 1: but that's what I feel.
Speaker 2: I think it dates you because I mean, that's twenty
Speaker 2: that's a twenty three year time period.
Speaker 1: Too, sha, So to sche that's young.
Speaker 2: Like some people with like a twenty five LIFs like
Speaker 2: a life sentence or whatever, like they're they're almost like it.
Speaker 1: Oh you know that's disturbing. Yeah, okay, So we're talking
Speaker 1: about Tim Bosma today. So Tim Bosma was a hard
Speaker 1: working self employed contractor. He was a husband and a
Speaker 1: father who lived in Ancaster, Ontario. He grew up in
Speaker 1: Hamilton in the Hamilton area of Ontario and was born
Speaker 1: on July twenty third, nineteen eighty. He was known for
Speaker 1: his strong family ties and as I feel like you
Speaker 1: have to when you're an entrepreneur because the hours ain't short.
Speaker 1: Had a passion for his work.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: He was also passionate about his hobbies, which included motorcycles.
Speaker 1: Tim married his lovely wife, Charlene, in February of twenty ten.
Speaker 1: Oh that's actually the same year we got married, isn't
Speaker 1: it It is? Yeah, wow, And the happy couple welcomed
Speaker 1: their first child, a daughter, later that year in December.
Speaker 2: That is not us no, thankfully.
Speaker 1: Tim's role as a husband and father was central to
Speaker 1: his life. His wife Charlene has spoken about their closer
Speaker 1: relationship and the joy they found in parenthood. They shared
Speaker 1: the responsibilities of caring for their daughter and building a
Speaker 1: life together, as many people do. The family, though they
Speaker 1: lived paycheck to paycheck, if you will. They were a
Speaker 1: young family and at the time money was a bit tight.
Speaker 1: I feel like now that's even more relatable now because
Speaker 1: of the cost of everything nowadays. It's unbelief.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it's just gone up exponentially while
Speaker 2: everyone's pay has stayed basically stagnant.
Speaker 1: Yes, So it's actually a bit disgusting, it really is.
Speaker 1: So them living paycheck to paycheck led them to decide
Speaker 1: to list their two thousand and seven black Dodge Ram
Speaker 1: pickup truck in twenty thirteen, as the repair bills were
Speaker 1: getting to be a bit costly. They hoped to find
Speaker 1: a buyer who would appreciate the vehicle and ensure that
Speaker 1: it went to a good home. I feel like you,
Speaker 1: that's kind of what you're looking for. He probably really
Speaker 1: liked his truck, and he was like, well, I want
Speaker 1: to find someone that will also love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can respect that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. An online ad was placed on Kajiji listing the
Speaker 1: truck for twenty four grand, which would help the family
Speaker 1: immensely so when they got a bite. On May sixth,
Speaker 1: Tim rushed home from work to meet the Perspective buyer,
Speaker 1: who wanted to see the truck. By the time the
Speaker 1: Perspective buyer arrived at the Bosma residence, it was quite late,
Speaker 1: like just after nine to twenty pm. Late.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see, that's that's it's a little too late for
Speaker 2: my liking. I'm not sure if I would accept someone
Speaker 2: coming over, a stranger coming over my house at that time.
Speaker 1: But then they also had like twenty four grand on
Speaker 1: the line, right, so they're like, true, I want to
Speaker 1: be accomminating and maybe this will just be like an
Speaker 1: easy cell and then we get our paycheck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's easier to say in hindsight. Yeah in my seat.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: But I know if it was dark, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: hell no, which it probably will. I hate the dark.
Speaker 1: I like run around in the dark because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be out here.
Speaker 2: You're the type of person to like be in the
Speaker 2: basement and turn the light off and run up the stairs.
Speaker 1: Really quick one hundred and ten percent.
Speaker 2: See, I'm the type to turn the lights off and
Speaker 2: walk slowly up the stairs. But panicking inside, being like, no,
Speaker 2: it's okay, okay, just walks over, you got it. There's
Speaker 2: no one, there's no one that you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: No, I would get out of that situation as fast
Speaker 1: as possible.
Speaker 2: I act calm on the outside, but I'm screaming inside.
Speaker 1: So this perspective buyer. He strolled up the driveway. He
Speaker 1: wasn't alone though, he had a friend, and he told
Speaker 1: Charlene that they had been dropped off down the street.
Speaker 1: So they just kind of like walked up the street
Speaker 1: and then were there. And it's kind of weird, right,
Speaker 1: like that's that's fucking yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I think weren't they supposed to be dropped off
Speaker 2: by a friend and the friend was going to grab
Speaker 2: them coffee or something like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know all I'm not sure about the coffee part,
Speaker 1: but all I knew is I mean there was no vehicle,
Speaker 1: Like generally, when you're going to test her have something,
Speaker 1: you'd show up in another vehicle. Yeah, you'd park it
Speaker 1: in the driveway and then yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Do remember there being a vague excuse on why their
Speaker 2: friend dropped him off like a few blocks away or something,
Speaker 2: and they walked over and it seems to me that
Speaker 2: he was going to coffee. He was coffee, He's going
Speaker 2: to Timmy's. I literally was going to say, I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure he was headed to Tim Horton instagrab him coffee
Speaker 2: or or something like that. Boy, But it was such
Speaker 2: a minute and weird detail. I don't think MANYEAHO will
Speaker 2: talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it makes sense though if it was Timmy's.
Speaker 1: So it all seemed a bit weird. But Tim and
Speaker 1: Charlene had chatted prior to their arrival that if they
Speaker 1: wanted to do a test drive that Tim would go
Speaker 1: with them. They had a lot of money to be
Speaker 1: lost if the truck, say, didn't return from said test drive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course, although it was late the perspective buyers
Speaker 1: did request to take it for a spin.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean understandable. Have you sort of used vehicle?
Speaker 2: Makes sense?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean yeah, it was like I mean, that's
Speaker 1: it was a bit of a it was a bit
Speaker 1: of a penny, So it makes sense that they'd want
Speaker 1: to kind of take it for a spin before they
Speaker 1: decided if they want to invest in it or not.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So at some point though, Charlene realized they'd been gone
Speaker 1: for longer than she expected. At most, how long would
Speaker 1: a test drive take? Like, what fifteen minutes? Maybe half
Speaker 1: an hour?
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1: But Charlene also couldn't get a hold Tim on his
Speaker 1: cell phone. So when she couldn't shake the feeling that
Speaker 1: something was wrong any longer, I think it was about
Speaker 1: an hour or so, she decided to contact the police.
Speaker 1: Minutes turned into hours, and hours turned into days, with
Speaker 1: Tim still not returning home from the test drive. This
Speaker 1: was very unlikely behavior from him to not stay in
Speaker 1: touch with his family. He was super family oriented and
Speaker 1: connected to them. Tim was declared officially missing by a
Speaker 1: Hamilton Police service on May seventh, twenty thirteen. Two days later,
Speaker 1: Charlene appealed to the kidnappers to return her husband during
Speaker 1: a press conference, stating, and I can like hear this,
Speaker 1: so can I. It was just a truck, a stupid truck.
Speaker 1: You do not need him, but I do. Our daughter
Speaker 1: needs her daddy. Like that just gives me fucking goost bumps,
Speaker 1: Like hold shit breaks me.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine not only how that wife feels, but
Speaker 2: how the daughter is feeling too, in the whole family.
Speaker 1: Well, the daughter, Yeah, she's two, two.
Speaker 2: Years old, she's probably like she's at that point where
Speaker 2: she's able to communicate. Oh yeah, she's probably wondering where
Speaker 2: daddy is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's really young.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The initial steps in the investigation involved interviews with family, friends,
Speaker 1: and witnesses, all aimed at piecing together Tim's last known moments.
Speaker 1: They wanted to establish a timeline of events and any
Speaker 1: potential motives for his disappearance. They examined Tim's phone and
Speaker 1: communication records to determine if there were any calls or
Speaker 1: messages that could provide clues about his whereabouts or contacts
Speaker 1: contacts with the Perspective buyers. Given that Tim had arranged
Speaker 1: the test drive through an online advertisement right Kajiji, law
Speaker 1: enforcement also conduct investigations into the online communications between Tim
Speaker 1: and the potential buyers. This included examining email exchanges in
Speaker 1: any other digital correspondence. But police quickly discovered that the
Speaker 1: phone used to contact Tim had been a Burner phone.
Speaker 1: Using the call records from the Burner phone, police discovered
Speaker 1: that the men had arranged two other test drives in
Speaker 1: similar vehicles in the days prior to meeting with Tim. Right,
Speaker 1: I forgot about that, which is real. Fucked Yeah, they
Speaker 1: failed to arrive on time at the one, and that
Speaker 1: the second it took place in Toronto on May fifth,
Speaker 1: the men did show up to that one. They matched
Speaker 1: the description of the pair who had left with Tim,
Speaker 1: but that owner didn't face the same fade as Tim.
Speaker 1: Efforts to track the location of tim truck. We're also
Speaker 1: in place, including using any available GPS or tracking systems,
Speaker 1: and while this was going on, the community rallied with
Speaker 1: volunteers and law enforcement launching extensive searches in an attempt
Speaker 1: to locate Tim.
Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite part of any true
Speaker 2: crime case is when the community fucking rallies up like this.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely incredible because if I'm being honest, researching so
Speaker 2: many of these cases, I lose faith in humanity so
Speaker 2: fucking easy, Yeah, because there is such fucking scum out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But then that again, that little bit of like fucking
Speaker 2: ray of sunshine shining through is when stuff like this happens,
Speaker 2: it's like the community is behind it, they want to help,
Speaker 2: they want to find them.
Speaker 1: It's like because that's when the support really shows through. Right, So,
Speaker 1: like Charlene, I'm sure would have just had she would
Speaker 1: have been just completely devastated but then been able to
Speaker 1: to move forward because she knew, like all these people
Speaker 1: were helping her and yeah, and you know, 'rall raw,
Speaker 1: like let's find Tim.
Speaker 2: Right, Like I even picture like everyone doing what they can,
Speaker 2: Like the little old lady down the street who can't
Speaker 2: join a search party or anything, but coming over with
Speaker 2: like a cast role she made for her and stuff
Speaker 2: to like, at least you don't have to cook dinner tonight,
Speaker 2: and I made this for you.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for well, yeah, because she also has to
Speaker 1: think about their daughter, right, Yeah, exactly, So I mean
Speaker 1: she needs to be strong for that. So that's tough.
Speaker 1: That's like an added level. Yeah. On May tenth, twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: police announced they had located Tim's cellphone while searching an
Speaker 1: industrial area and released updated descriptions of the two suspects.
Speaker 1: The following day, they arrested their first suspect. Fuck yeah,
Speaker 1: Dylan Millard. Fucking Dylan fucking Dylan is right, this asshole.
Speaker 1: He's a twenty seven year old millionaire who owned several
Speaker 1: million dollar properties and was the heir to the Mallard
Speaker 1: Air which is an aviation company based in Waterloo.
Speaker 2: So I wasn't gonna say much about my thoughts on
Speaker 2: Dylan because I didn't want to give.
Speaker 1: Away hearing like he's an asshole.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to give too much of the story
Speaker 2: away yet because it was like, oh, maybe he's you know,
Speaker 2: a roung culprit or something, but no, no, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: a fucking douche commy, oh.
Speaker 1: So big time. And you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say that. We'll get there. So he was charged with
Speaker 1: forcible confinement and theft over five thousand late Saturday morning
Speaker 1: on May twelfth, twenty thirteen. Tim's truck is finally found.
Speaker 1: This kind of gave everyone a sense of, i'll call
Speaker 1: it false hope that maybe Tim, you know, would be
Speaker 1: found next. The truck was found inside a trailer in
Speaker 1: the driveway of Madeline Millard's house. This is Dylan Millard's mother.
Speaker 1: The trailer was registered to The truck had been partially
Speaker 1: stripped of its like deco and any identification, and there
Speaker 1: was also blood and gunshot residue found in the Interior
Speaker 1: Law enforcement executed search warrants at various locations, including properties
Speaker 1: owned by the suspects, and also made a public appeal
Speaker 1: for information urging anyone with knowledge of the case to
Speaker 1: come forward. Of the property search was a farm tied
Speaker 1: to Millard, and on this particular farm, investigators stumbled upon
Speaker 1: something that caught their attention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this part sucks.
Speaker 1: It wasn't out in the open for all to see,
Speaker 1: but it was rather tucked away in the trees as
Speaker 1: if it was hidden. What it was was an animal
Speaker 1: incinerator with the words the eliminator displayed across the side.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't actually being those officers discovering this because
Speaker 2: you know right away in this you know, you're like,
Speaker 2: there's there's.
Speaker 1: No question, you fucking know, you know, like you just
Speaker 1: your heart would just sink.
Speaker 2: Yeah to quote you three seconds ago, you know.
Speaker 1: So the incinerator had the capacity to burn not only
Speaker 1: a at like animal remains, but also other evidence and
Speaker 1: potentially human remains. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Those things burn an extreme fucking temperature. Yeah, you put
Speaker 2: something in there, it's gone.
Speaker 1: And it's uh it's a pretty price too. Those things
Speaker 1: are not cheap. So upon further inspection of the incinerator,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what they found. Traces of bone fragments and
Speaker 1: ash which were sent off for forensic analysis, and sure enough,
Speaker 1: the remains belonged to Tim. All hope was lost. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: Millard's previous charge was officially changed to first degree murder.
Speaker 1: On May twenty second, the day of Tim's memorial, police
Speaker 1: announced they had arrest is a second suspect, twenty five
Speaker 1: year old Mark Smitch. I think I don't fucking know.
Speaker 1: I don't even give a shit to find out if
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: Mark Pizza Schmidt's Smick.
Speaker 1: I think it was Smith.
Speaker 2: He's a piece of Schmidt's smick.
Speaker 1: So Mark Smick formally where the fuck am I? Okay
Speaker 1: and formally charged? Sorry, oh okay, fuck. They arrested him,
Speaker 1: and the following day he was formally charged with the
Speaker 1: first degree murder, good God.
Speaker 2: And being a piece of schmich Smick Smitch.
Speaker 1: Unlike Millard, Smick came from a middle class family. He'd
Speaker 1: a criminal record involving petty offenses such as drug possession, driving,
Speaker 1: impaired mischief, failure to appear, and breach of conditions. He
Speaker 1: sold drugs and cigarettes for a living and occasionally worked
Speaker 1: odd jobs in Millard's aircraft hanger. I don't really want
Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time talking about these two assholes,
Speaker 1: but to cover the case properly, we need to admit. Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: The friendship between the two started in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and Smitch initially idolizes what.
Speaker 2: Just keep laughing at his last name?
Speaker 1: Did I just do something wrong again?
Speaker 2: No, I've just worn out bad joke and I'm trying
Speaker 2: not to say the case missed. I'm still finding it funny.
Speaker 1: Oh, You're gonna probably for the end. So he kind
Speaker 1: of idolized Millard, and it was probably because I'm assuming
Speaker 1: like Millard's money.
Speaker 2: I'm most likely.
Speaker 1: Because I don't think Smick is a very smart dude.
Speaker 2: He doesn't sound like it.
Speaker 1: By twenty eleven, the pair had grown closer, with Smick
Speaker 1: and his girlfriend moving into the basements suite of the
Speaker 1: Millard's family house. In twenty twelve, Mallard, as you probably thought,
Speaker 1: is a bad egg. He would arrange for Smick and
Speaker 1: other friends to accompany him on in quotation missions, basically
Speaker 1: night excursions to steal shit that Millard could have easily
Speaker 1: just purchased, but he liked the thrill of it.
Speaker 2: Did he really call them missions?
Speaker 1: Missions? It was? They were missions?
Speaker 2: What is he? Eight years old? I singing Mission impossible?
Speaker 2: Creeping through the dark.
Speaker 1: Oh and it's so it's like so it's it's almost
Speaker 1: more maddening in a sense because he could afford these things,
Speaker 1: and he's going and stealing stuff from people that A
Speaker 1: probably don't have near as much money as him, b
Speaker 1: who like worked really fucking hard to probably buy said things.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So like see, you're just an asshole. Like I'm pissed
Speaker 1: with this these people.
Speaker 2: He's doing it just simply for the thrill and enjoyment
Speaker 2: of taking from someone else. Yeah, someone else who's earned it.
Speaker 1: Like that is not okay. That is not okay. The
Speaker 1: disappearance and discovery of Tim's fate was met with shock
Speaker 1: and grief by the community and really the nation large,
Speaker 1: and was obviously a critical turning point in the investigation.
Speaker 1: The forensic analysis conducted on Tim's remains would later confirm
Speaker 1: the cause of death to be a gunshot, a gunshot wound,
Speaker 1: and provide valuable evidence for the prosecution's case against Millard
Speaker 1: and Smick Smith. I don't know how to say, is
Speaker 1: that I but I really I looked earlier, but I'm
Speaker 1: not looking again.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not too sure. I do want to stop
Speaker 2: on one detail that I don't think it was his
Speaker 2: remains that identified the gunshot wound because most of.
Speaker 1: It was in the truck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his remains were, like I think, the DNA was
Speaker 2: pretty much almost completely gone too, burned away. But it
Speaker 2: was the truck, the DNA within the truck that proved
Speaker 2: that it was a gunshot.
Speaker 1: Because to be honest, some of the articles say that
Speaker 1: an incinerator, like it wasn't even for sure Tim's, but
Speaker 1: it was kind of like assumed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, I do remember them also talking about
Speaker 2: with the truck because they, like you said, it was
Speaker 2: partially stripped and stuff. It was also pressure washed.
Speaker 1: Right, and there was even remains of Tim's I think
Speaker 1: like underneath the undercarriage.
Speaker 2: That's where they found most of DNA because they pressure
Speaker 2: washed a bunch of the inside and all the blood
Speaker 2: and stuff ran down underneath the truck and was dripping off, yeah,
Speaker 2: and dried underneath.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really disturbing. Yeah, if you didn't realize, Ben
Speaker 1: actually knows a lot about this case too, because I
Speaker 1: mean it's not that old. It's Canadian. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: we remember it happening. So it was now time to
Speaker 1: get justice for Tim and his family. The trial didn't
Speaker 1: begin until February twenty sixteen, and it was a high
Speaker 1: profile case in Canada. The prosecution presented an array of evidence,
Speaker 1: including extensive forensic analysis, including DNA analysis and fingerprint evidence
Speaker 1: linking the defendants to Tim's truck and the crime scene.
Speaker 1: The evidence included Tim's blood in his truck and the
Speaker 1: discovery of his blood on a toolbox on the Millard's farm.
Speaker 2: Right right, that's what they specifically said.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they knew that this that his body was
Speaker 1: at the farm.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I forgot about that part because wasn't the toolbox
Speaker 2: like part of the trailer or something that housed the burner?
Speaker 2: I think, oh, I'm not sure. I can't remember it.
Speaker 2: Don't quote me on that, but I think that might
Speaker 2: be part of it there, Okay.
Speaker 1: They also had video evident showing Tim leaving with the
Speaker 1: two suspects on the night of his disappearance, as well
Speaker 1: as footage of the suspects driving Tim's truck, along with
Speaker 1: evidence from the incinerator and witness testimonies. Because something I
Speaker 1: didn't even put in there, because there's some like to
Speaker 1: cover a case in one episode is sometimes kind of hard.
Speaker 1: But Millard, he you know, had employees and stuff at
Speaker 1: the air hanger, and there was even a point where
Speaker 1: he had like messaged all of them and he's like,
Speaker 1: don't don't come to work like the next day, like
Speaker 1: don't even show up. And it was because he was
Speaker 1: he had brought like the truck there or something and
Speaker 1: some shit like he's just like this most sketchiest person
Speaker 1: in the whole world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because after I think they shot him or whatever
Speaker 2: the they went, Yeah, that's where they went. So you
Speaker 2: then told his employees to basically fuck off for a
Speaker 2: day while he dealt with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, like unbelievable. Yeah, while the exact motivation, whoa
Speaker 1: was that? Even English, the exact motivations of the accused
Speaker 1: can be challenging to prove. The prosecution argued the following
Speaker 1: motives during the trial. So there's a couple theft of
Speaker 1: the truck. So one of the primary motives presented by
Speaker 1: the prosecution was the theft of Tim's truck. They argued
Speaker 1: that Millard and Smick had an interest in stealing a
Speaker 1: specific type of vehicle and Tim's truck met that because
Speaker 1: you know, they had reached out to our people with
Speaker 1: the same thing.
Speaker 2: Which kind of makes makes me sick to my stomach
Speaker 2: when you really analyze that situation. Yeah, how much was
Speaker 2: it that they were selling the truck for? Was it
Speaker 2: twenty five or twenty four four grand? Twenty four thousand dollars?
Speaker 2: So basically they valued Tim's life at twenty four thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and he was a dad and a
Speaker 1: husband and right a son.
Speaker 2: They're like, instead of instead of me spending twenty four grand,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to kill you instead because I want
Speaker 2: to keep my twenty four Yeah, so his life isn't
Speaker 2: even worth that to them, Like how fucking disgusting is that?
Speaker 1: It's disgusting? So theft of truck financial gain, I guess
Speaker 1: you could say criminal lifestyle.
Speaker 2: They just enjoyed this being pieces of schmidch.
Speaker 1: Control and manipulation, opportunistic crime. Kind I feel like that's
Speaker 1: kind of the same as, uh, criminal lifestyle, right, the
Speaker 1: opportunity just presented itself and then preventing identification being that
Speaker 1: Tim could potentially later identify them, Right, So they kind
Speaker 1: of got into thick at this point, like what are
Speaker 1: they going to do? This? Guy like really knows what
Speaker 1: they look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're taking your truck. Get out he's just going
Speaker 2: to report us.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The defense teams countered these arguments and maintained that
Speaker 1: their clients were innocent. Both Millard and Smick maintain their
Speaker 1: innocence throughout the trial, denying any involvement in Tim's murder.
Speaker 1: Their defense teams argued that they were unaware of any
Speaker 1: criminal activity and were simply just on a test drive
Speaker 1: with Tim. They challenged the reliability of the evidence presented
Speaker 1: and questioned the integrity of the forensic evidence, suggesting possible
Speaker 1: contamination and mishandling. They also presented an alternative theory to
Speaker 1: suggest that someone else may have been responsible for Tim's murder,
Speaker 1: emphasizing the fact of there were no direct eye witnesses
Speaker 1: to the murder itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just because there's not eyewitnesses though, it doesn't when
Speaker 2: is there, right, But evidence still says shit, Yeah, you
Speaker 2: put your boot in the mud and then you stand
Speaker 2: next to the mud. Someone's gonna be like, oh, you
Speaker 2: stepped in the mud. You didn't see me, do that? Dude?
Speaker 2: That's your bootprint. There's mud on your shoe right there,
Speaker 2: Like I can see your tracks leading over to where
Speaker 2: you're standing. Yeah, but you didn't see it.
Speaker 1: I know. I would. I feel like you could say
Speaker 1: nine out of ten, like, would the person actually have
Speaker 1: ever been seeing murdering someone?
Speaker 2: Nine out of ten dentists recommend that these guys.
Speaker 1: Shit. Okay, I wonder if that's even I use his
Speaker 1: booking name, but it is one.
Speaker 2: It's just funny.
Speaker 1: So ultimately, is this where I am? Yep? Ultimately, the
Speaker 1: jury found Millard and Smidt guilty of first degree murder
Speaker 1: in June of twenty sixteen, accepting the prosecution's case that
Speaker 1: the motive behind Tim's Tim Bosma's murder was rooted in
Speaker 1: criminal intent, particularly the theft of his truck. They were
Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole
Speaker 1: for twenty five years. The arrest, trial, and convictions of
Speaker 1: Millard and Smith provided a sense of closure and justice
Speaker 1: for Tim's family and the wider community. But there's more
Speaker 1: do you know about? The more?
Speaker 2: There's more? Do tell hum?
Speaker 1: And again, I'm only going to touch on these things
Speaker 1: because this is Tim's story. But there were additional sentences
Speaker 1: added for additional crimes that these two assholes committed. Oh,
Speaker 1: Tim's life was not the only life that they took.
Speaker 2: Really, really, really, I did not know this part. Holy fuck. Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't think so, okay bell.
Speaker 1: In December of twenty seventeen, both Millard and Smith were
Speaker 1: convicted of the murder of Laura Babcock.
Speaker 2: That name rings about.
Speaker 1: Laura and Mallard dated for a time. She was lasting
Speaker 1: alive in July twenty twelve, so before Tim's murder. Her
Speaker 1: remains were never found, but it's believed they had also
Speaker 1: seen the incinerator as Tim's had.
Speaker 2: Fuck.
Speaker 1: Millard and Smitch were again sentenced to life in prison
Speaker 1: and the parole oh with the eligibility period of twenty
Speaker 1: five years and to be served consecutively. So that means
Speaker 1: that the previous sentence they were like adding twenty five
Speaker 1: years onto that, so they would both have fifty years
Speaker 1: and not be released prior to twenty sixty three. On December, weird,
Speaker 1: I was just.
Speaker 2: Kind of like Matthew in my head and like thinking,
Speaker 2: I was like, is there a bot or something coming?
Speaker 2: But no, okay.
Speaker 1: On December eighteenth, twenty eighteen, Millard was said sentence to
Speaker 1: life in prison for a third time. This time he
Speaker 1: was found guilty of taking his very own father's life.
Speaker 1: Wayne Millard.
Speaker 2: Okay, I did hear about this one.
Speaker 1: Yes, Wayne was found dead on November twenty ninth, twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: from a gunshot through the eye, with his death initially
Speaker 1: ruled as a suicide. This third life sentence was also
Speaker 1: to be served consecutively along with the other life sentences
Speaker 1: handed to him, meaning that Millard would serve a minimum
Speaker 1: seventy five years in prison before he would be eligible
Speaker 1: to apply for parole. He would be one hundred and
Speaker 1: three years old.
Speaker 2: At the time, so he's gonna rot.
Speaker 1: Just a minute, though, I wanted to talk about his
Speaker 1: dad for a sec because it's interesting. Something I read
Speaker 1: is that if someone's like committing suicide, that they generally
Speaker 1: wouldn't have pulled the trigger like with it facing them
Speaker 1: in the eye.
Speaker 2: Because in their looking at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then also something I'd read is that the gun
Speaker 1: that was used was actually like in like a Lulu
Speaker 1: lemon bag tucked away like behind the bed, which would
Speaker 1: make no sense that it would be suicide at all.
Speaker 2: I want to know another really interesting fact about suicide.
Speaker 2: The reason why I knew that he wouldn't have shot
Speaker 2: himself in the eye because he's looking at it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: People who jump off buildings or jump off bridges or anything.
Speaker 2: They'll take their glasses off first.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so.
Speaker 2: Usually where they jump, their glasses are laying there because
Speaker 2: they don't want to watch. They don't want to see
Speaker 2: themselves fall.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so sad.
Speaker 2: They take the glasses off, put them down, and they
Speaker 2: jump and they close their eyes.
Speaker 1: I've also, I mean, there was something in town that
Speaker 1: had happened at some point too where someone they they
Speaker 1: had committed they were committing suicide, and right before they
Speaker 1: did it, they like put their coffee down. Yep, just like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yeah I heard about that too.
Speaker 1: Okay, so one hundred and three year three when he
Speaker 1: was able to apply for parole. But that's obviously far
Speaker 1: too good to be true, is it not. This is
Speaker 1: going to piss you off.
Speaker 2: Back, No, here we go, all right, okay, cold one and.
Speaker 1: There's like nothing you can do about Wait.
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm mentally preparing myself. I need to take a
Speaker 2: sip here.
Speaker 1: I might backlash, backlash for saying this, but this is like,
Speaker 1: this is this is Canada. I feel like being real soft.
Speaker 1: A Supreme Court of Canada decision in twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: struck down consecutive parole ineligibility periods as unconstitutional. What meaning
Speaker 1: that Millard and Smith respective seventy five and fifteen years
Speaker 1: that they had have now been reduced to more than
Speaker 1: no more than twenty five years before they can apply
Speaker 1: for parole. They will now be eligible for parole in
Speaker 1: twenty forty three. This is a Supreme Court of Canada decision.
Speaker 2: Lay.
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah. The ruling said consecutive parole ineligibility period shook
Speaker 1: the foundation of criminal law and in and were incompatible
Speaker 1: with human dignity. But the decision was criticized by victims' families,
Speaker 1: and rightfully so. In my opinion, victims' families feel it
Speaker 1: denies individual justice to each person killed by a multiple murderer.
Speaker 2: It does, and it also promotes a murderer if say
Speaker 2: they do murder once, maybe just had a panic or something, Well,
Speaker 2: I did it once, Some might as well keep going
Speaker 2: now if I get caught, I'm going to serve.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like, also, because how much money did they
Speaker 1: did we as taxpayers or whatever have to pay for
Speaker 1: those other freaking trials When it was just like, oh
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter, Like that's bullshit.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have one fucking thing to say to Canada
Speaker 2: the Canadian government right now, and I'm going to say
Speaker 2: it as a fucking Canadian to Canadians.
Speaker 1: Come on, I know, well, that's why I was like,
Speaker 1: that's a bit soft, like that's that's it's not okay.
Speaker 2: So that was like the most polite.
Speaker 1: That was really. I was actually a bit worried about
Speaker 1: what you were going to say.
Speaker 2: That's why I did it. Some Canadian the Canadian arguing
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 1: Look at you when you were saying that, because I
Speaker 1: was like, what's he gonna say? Okay? So, Laura bab
Speaker 1: Cock's mother said in a statement, these judges believe that
Speaker 1: it is cruel and unusual punishment to give a person
Speaker 1: a sentence that leaves them no hope for the future.
Speaker 1: We have no hope. Our family and friends have suffered
Speaker 1: the loss of our dear daughter Laura for over a decade.
Speaker 1: The grief and heartache are no less now than when
Speaker 1: she was cruelly taken from us, Which makes sense. Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: Millard and Smick have appealed all of their convictions, but
Speaker 1: as of right now, they have all been rejected. Thankfully.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Tim Bosma was portrayed in the media as a
Speaker 1: loving husband and father which generated empathy from the public.
Speaker 1: His family's emotional pleas for his safe return resonated with
Speaker 1: many many people, and his story was relatable because the
Speaker 1: majority of us, at some point in time have met
Speaker 1: with a stranger to sell an item. The case prompted
Speaker 1: discussions about personal safety, particularly in the context of online transactions.
Speaker 1: It led to increased awareness about taking precautions when meeting
Speaker 1: with stranger for sales or purchase purchases arranged through the Internet,
Speaker 1: highlighting the potential danger of online transactions. It served as
Speaker 1: a wake up call for individuals involved in buying and
Speaker 1: selling goods online, reminding them to take safety precautions when
Speaker 1: meeting with strangers. Individual began meeting in well lit public places,
Speaker 1: bringing friends or family members along, or even conducting transactions
Speaker 1: at local police stations to ensure their safety. The case
Speaker 1: contributed to discussions about the importance of personal security measures,
Speaker 1: not only in online transactions, but in daily life. It
Speaker 1: encouraged people to be vigilant, holy yes, and proactive and
Speaker 1: protecting themselves and their loved ones. Okay, and I'm just
Speaker 1: like going to talk here for a sec because I'm
Speaker 1: like so cautious, like probably one of the most cautious people. Ever,
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, so I was visiting family, and
Speaker 1: these family members I don't even think I told you this.
Speaker 1: It's not really a big deal, but they were. They
Speaker 1: were donating an item too that was going to go
Speaker 1: in like a museum or whatever. Okay, And so these
Speaker 1: people came to collect said item from their home and
Speaker 1: then they just like let them come in the house
Speaker 1: to collect the item. And I was just like, this
Speaker 1: is not okay, Like why are we not just bringing
Speaker 1: these said items outside and like handing it to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, do you remember with our home that we
Speaker 2: had before we bought the tiny home. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: a relatively new build.
Speaker 1: Oh god, oh god, and.
Speaker 2: There was a lot beside us where the builder was
Speaker 2: going to build another home. Yep, these people knocked on
Speaker 2: our door.
Speaker 1: It's actually a shock that Ben is alive right now,
Speaker 1: just saying.
Speaker 2: These people knocked in our door. It was a nice
Speaker 2: couple and they're just like asking some questions about the
Speaker 2: builder and you know, the house and what we think.
Speaker 2: And I just like, you guys want to come in
Speaker 2: and take a look around. You can like see the house,
Speaker 2: go in the basement, cross space, whatever the fuck you want.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you all about the house. So it calls
Speaker 2: off at work and I'm at home with these strangers
Speaker 2: just coming into the house looking.
Speaker 1: Around, and I think I came home and was like,
Speaker 1: what the actual fuck did you?
Speaker 2: They were super nice though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also they were just like case in the
Speaker 1: joint probably, and we're like, we're gonna break in and
Speaker 1: steal this and this, and they didn't. Well frick even
Speaker 1: even this morning, I woke up like half an hour
Speaker 1: before the alarm to a fucking doorbell ringing and we
Speaker 1: don't even have a fucking doorbell. So like this was
Speaker 1: in my dream and I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I it's six thirty in the morning, Like who is
Speaker 1: ringing our doorbell? And then I was like I'm not
Speaker 1: answering it, Like that's what goes in my head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough to be, to be faul fair. That
Speaker 2: was before the podcast, in my start of prime research
Speaker 2: and stuff too, so I had become a lot more
Speaker 2: cautious since.
Speaker 1: So would you do that again?
Speaker 2: Probably?
Speaker 1: Are you serious?
Speaker 2: We already did. In the tiny home, we had someone
Speaker 2: else to come look at our tiny home because they
Speaker 2: were curious about tiny home. Yeah, that was only like
Speaker 2: a year ago.
Speaker 1: Okay, moving on. This newfound awareness transcended the low community
Speaker 1: and reached a national level. It led to discussions on
Speaker 1: national safety guidelines for online transactions, inspired educational initiatives, and
Speaker 1: spurred policy changes amid or aimed at enhancing security and
Speaker 1: digital transactions. Sorry, you keep looking at me funny.
Speaker 2: And I was just like you're telling me a story.
Speaker 1: The murder of Tim is a haunting tale of an
Speaker 1: ordinary but extraordinary man whose life was cut far too
Speaker 1: short during what should have been a simple transaction. It's
Speaker 1: a story of profound loss and resilience, and it showed,
Speaker 1: like Tim's family in the community's true colors as they
Speaker 1: stood together. As Charlene said, it was just a truck,
Speaker 1: a stupid truck. Charlene founded a charity in memory of
Speaker 1: her husband called Tim's Tribute. It offers financial aid for
Speaker 1: immediate and trial related needs of families affected by homicide.
Speaker 1: Charlie noticed the gaps within the system, and she was
Speaker 1: compelled to help others suffering from the same horrific loss
Speaker 1: as she herself went through.
Speaker 2: It was just a truck.
Speaker 1: It was just a truck.
Speaker 2: And do you remember why he wanted that truck?
Speaker 1: In the first place. Yeah, no, I never came across that.
Speaker 2: Why the dude was actually after the truck, Oh Millard? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Why Millard was after the truck because he wasn't for
Speaker 2: parts or something. Wasn't for parts. Well, he was like
Speaker 2: rebuilding another one or something like that. But he basically
Speaker 2: wanted this specific truck because it's like gas mile race
Speaker 2: mileage ratio or something like that. It was a specific like, hey,
Speaker 2: this will save me some money this specific truck because
Speaker 2: he was part of that like fucking Baja race or
Speaker 2: whatever that was like five days across the desert, because
Speaker 2: his dad had all the money in the company, right,
Speaker 2: so he was like a kid of money, and so
Speaker 2: he went and did this race and like fucked up
Speaker 2: on the first day and fucked totaled his car, and
Speaker 2: then they decided next time he goes and does it
Speaker 2: because it cost him so much money and gas to
Speaker 2: haul this race car down on a trailer with a
Speaker 2: truck that he needed to find a specific truck that
Speaker 2: was more fuel a car.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay that part rings a.
Speaker 2: Bell, yes, And this Dodge pickup truck was the truck
Speaker 2: he decided he needed. So he just wanted this truck
Speaker 2: so he could haul his race car so he can
Speaker 2: go race.
Speaker 1: Wow, And so he.
Speaker 2: Decided to steal one instead of buy one. Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 2: there were I think there were parts and stuff because
Speaker 2: he was gonna like mash some different ones together, like
Speaker 2: build like basically build the truck up again, make it,
Speaker 2: make sure it was good for the road, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he basically just like, yeah, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go on a race and I don't want
Speaker 2: to steal someone's truck and kill them so I can
Speaker 2: go race my race car with Daddy's money.
Speaker 1: And I don't have the name of the person that
Speaker 1: they had the test drive with before, but they were
Speaker 1: within the test drive, like these two assholes found out
Speaker 1: something about him, like I think he's like ex military
Speaker 1: or something, and so they had they that scared them
Speaker 1: off because if it wasn't for that, they probably would
Speaker 1: have done this to him.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So, which this story is just it's fucking haunting to
Speaker 1: be honest.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah no, this this ship is bananas.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anas.
Speaker 1: This is literally one of like the reasons why I
Speaker 1: just like have trust issues is this story. It's probably
Speaker 1: the start of it. Honestly, this was kind of a
Speaker 1: big deal because it was like holy shit, like people
Speaker 1: might not even nest I mean they would have thought
Speaker 1: about it, but not to this extent before they went
Speaker 1: to like sell a vehicle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough, because I mean, like we all grew
Speaker 2: up with like, hey, don't meet strangers, don't get in
Speaker 2: a stranger's car, like all this sort of stuff. It
Speaker 2: was like almost like hypothetical at a point, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's all across the news. This
Speaker 2: dude got into a vehicle with a stranger, his own vehicle,
Speaker 2: but a stranger was in his vehicle with him, and
Speaker 2: he fucking killed you.
Speaker 1: Like, is what what you even do? Like I don't
Speaker 1: even know how people go boat sounding vehicles nowadays then,
Speaker 1: because how would you do it without having to go
Speaker 1: on a test drive with them?
Speaker 2: I would honestly probably just let them go on a
Speaker 2: test drive solo. If they sell the vehicles insured, and
Speaker 2: yeah if they if they steal the car, they steal
Speaker 2: the car, you report them. Whatever.
Speaker 1: Well, we saw the vehicle like what two years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember you.
Speaker 1: I think were at work, but they came over to
Speaker 1: look at it and they like went in, and I
Speaker 1: thought they were just like trying it out and then
Speaker 1: al sudden they just like drove off and I was
Speaker 1: like shit, yeah, like okay, but they just went like
Speaker 1: a tiny bit down the road, but they didn't say anything,
Speaker 1: and so it is. It's bizarre, but I would prefer
Speaker 1: that then, like me also being in there and them
Speaker 1: just like going, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, no fair enough. And when because they decided
Speaker 2: another day, they're like oh they called back like okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll buy it. Can you like deliver it to the house, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So then yeah, I think I took time off work
Speaker 2: to drive with you, to be at the house their
Speaker 2: house with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, because yeah, they were also giving us
Speaker 1: money and stuff, and so yeah, it's interesting. Selling stuff
Speaker 1: is interesting.
Speaker 2: You had to bring muscle with you, is what we're saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which honestly is probably It's never a bad idea
Speaker 1: to be overcautious in my opinion.
Speaker 2: It's definitely not. Nope, safety first.
Speaker 1: Right from the from the ex safety guy.
Speaker 2: Yep, well, good job in this episode. It was nice
Speaker 2: to actually be back and have you do an episode.
Speaker 1: While it has been a lot been while since, so
Speaker 1: you sorry, wow, keep going.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone wants gon to keep singing. I
Speaker 2: am not a good singer.
Speaker 1: So, oh my goodness. Okay, well now we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna log off of this and we're going to record
Speaker 1: to Patreon episodes. What she said, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: being here and for allowing us. So many of you
Speaker 1: were just so kind when it came to us having
Speaker 1: a break for like our mental health and just a
Speaker 1: little bit of a reboot. So we really appreciated that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that mental lots. We had some kind messages and
Speaker 2: comments and all that sort of stuff, and it was
Speaker 2: really nice to see that you guys are not only
Speaker 2: here to be like, hey, crack the whip and give
Speaker 2: us episodes. It's like, no, you're you're here kind of
Speaker 2: like as a community with us, and you're backing us
Speaker 2: and you're here for what we need too. So that
Speaker 2: meant a lot. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It was really nice. Yeah, okay, go on your spiel.
Speaker 1: Do you remember what it is? We haven't insta Facebook, website, YouTube.
Speaker 2: Patreon, keep going. You got the spiel? Apparently, go for it.
Speaker 1: I don't even know, but check out our website. Everything
Speaker 1: is probably linked on there. I don't even know what
Speaker 1: it is. Wicked and Grim podcast dot com.
Speaker 2: I think it's just Wickedangrim dot com. Our emails Wicking
Speaker 2: and Grim podcast, but I'm Wicked Grim dot com.
Speaker 1: Is it gonna come up? Okay, well, oh it comes
Speaker 1: up Wickedangrim dot com.
Speaker 2: There you go. I'll give this spiel. Then you can
Speaker 2: go ahead and check our website Wicked Andgrim dot com.
Speaker 2: We got social media's like Facebook, Instagram. We do have
Speaker 2: Twitter that we don't really use it. To get back
Speaker 2: on that. We are going to be humping out YouTube
Speaker 2: here starting this month. So I know we've said it before,
Speaker 2: but we are hammering down. It is happening. You got
Speaker 2: patron down below. If you don't want to do any
Speaker 2: of those things, you don't want to leave the platform.
Speaker 2: Whether you're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, doesn't matter. We appreciate
Speaker 2: you being being here, especially at this point. We're rambling now.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much. However you support us, it
Speaker 2: means the world. Thank you from the bottle of our hearts.
Speaker 2: You guys are absolutely wicked epic. Yeah, so until next time,
Speaker 2: stay wicked