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<v Speaker 1>The story of Tim Bosma, a hard working husband and father,

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<v Speaker 1>is a haunting tale of an ordinary man whose life

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<v Speaker 1>was cut short during what should have been a simple transaction,

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<v Speaker 1>reminding us all of the importance of personal safety in

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<v Speaker 1>an increasingly interconnected world.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim, a.

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<v Speaker 1>True crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Semial listener just question that.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, we're back, We're back.

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<v Speaker 2>Vacation is over.

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<v Speaker 1>Bright eyed and bushy tailed, We're back.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if i'd say that. I'm not too

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<v Speaker 2>sure if I'd say I'm bright eyed and bushy eyed

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever you said.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now detailed? Is that? How what the saying is?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Shoot, did I just get it wrong? Honestly, I

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be surprised.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't really care anyways.

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<v Speaker 1>And bushy tailed?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, right, bright eye and bushy tailed, okay, like

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<v Speaker 2>a cunning fox or a hyperactive squirrel perhaps maybe?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, thank you for allowing us to have a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of a break.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was much needed. Could have been way longer,

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm being honest, But I am so happy to

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<v Speaker 2>be back doing this. Miss missed this, missed you guys.

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<v Speaker 2>I missed researching. I missed, well, I didn't miss hearing

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<v Speaker 2>about people dying constantly, but you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, actually it was kind of It was nice having

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<v Speaker 1>a break from that.

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<v Speaker 2>There was something missing in her life.

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<v Speaker 1>But there was something missing, Yeah, there really was. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good being back now.

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<v Speaker 1>And October is wild.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Halloween Week is coming up quick. We sat down

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<v Speaker 2>the other day and we had a one on one

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<v Speaker 2>meeting on our kitchen counter and our tiny home yep,

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<v Speaker 2>and for it was probably almost two hours.

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<v Speaker 1>We had a two and a half hour meeting. It

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<v Speaker 1>was two and a half.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a two and a half.

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<v Speaker 1>Only one hour was in regards to Wicket and Gram.

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<v Speaker 2>The other hour and a half I thought it was

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<v Speaker 2>longer than that. We talked about wicket Ingrim like an

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<v Speaker 2>hour and a half maybe, I don't know. Anyway, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a long ass meeting.

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<v Speaker 2>But we talked about like a lot of wicked and

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<v Speaker 2>grim and there was a big chunk of that that

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<v Speaker 2>was like dedicated to how we're approaching Halloween Week this year.

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<v Speaker 1>M h.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's some plans, there's some cool shit gonna happen.

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<v Speaker 2>We're stoked.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's gonna be good.

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<v Speaker 2>It gonna be good. You can quote that from Nicole

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<v Speaker 2>right now, you've heard it here first. It going to

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<v Speaker 2>be good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's kind of awesome in the sense

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<v Speaker 1>that we'll be having a episode coming on the Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>like the normal episode, and then Halloween Week just carries

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<v Speaker 1>on from that. Yep, and then.

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<v Speaker 2>It lands on the Tuesday, doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so? And then there's also gonna be like

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<v Speaker 1>a Patreon episode, So it's just gonna be like a

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<v Speaker 1>shit ton of Wicked and Grim.

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<v Speaker 2>And not only is there gonna be a shit ton

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<v Speaker 2>of Wicked and Grim, but the day Halloween Week starts,

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<v Speaker 2>guess what else? What Fearful? Yes, season two baby, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we are overdoing an update on that.

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<v Speaker 2>We are. We've had a lot of people requesting Fearful

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<v Speaker 2>come back and being like, when's it coming back. It's

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<v Speaker 2>coming back for Halloween Week, Okay, so get ready for

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<v Speaker 2>that drop. It's gonna be a massive Halloween Week this year.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And Fearful is a little bit different than Wicked

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<v Speaker 1>and Grim in the sense that it's not gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>really there's not gonna be a new episode every week.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to be more seasons and like a binge

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<v Speaker 1>binge amount dropped at one time.

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<v Speaker 2>So with like us, what we do is every Tuesday

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<v Speaker 2>we release an episode with Fearful. It's basically a project

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<v Speaker 2>where on the side, when we find the time, we

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<v Speaker 2>are researching extra episodes and Jacko, being as awesome as

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<v Speaker 2>he is, he presents those episodes and we get several

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<v Speaker 2>episodes at once and just basically boom drop it. Here's

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<v Speaker 2>a season, just like Netflix does to you, and you

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<v Speaker 2>just binge the whole season and then you wait for

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<v Speaker 2>season whatever to come out whenever.

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<v Speaker 1>Honestly, not healthy, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Totally not It's like an abusive relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>Really yeah, So yeah, we have a good case today.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it's not a good case, but it's a good case,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have some patrons to thank before.

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<v Speaker 2>That though, we do. I'm just gonna pull up the

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<v Speaker 2>list here, So first and foremost, I do want to

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<v Speaker 2>thank you guys who are coming back to listen to

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<v Speaker 2>us right now after our month long hiatus, over one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and forty episodes and we never took like a

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<v Speaker 2>of real break, So thank you for coming back, and

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to our patrons who stuck around during that,

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<v Speaker 2>and thank you to those who still signed up even

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<v Speaker 2>though we weren't rolling out with episode that whole month.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So well they're getting two episodes. Okay, so they're

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<v Speaker 1>getting our normal episode dropped today Tuesday, ye, and then

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<v Speaker 1>two Patreon episodes. Yeah, that's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>Two Patreon exclusive episodes are getting dropped this same day,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're gonna be uh rocking three Wicked and Grims today.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So the list of individuals who are oh so awesome

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<v Speaker 2>over on Patreon that we got to thank We have Bethany,

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<v Speaker 2>we have Maya, Gwyneth Douglas, Mercedes Parrot, Kristin Lehman, Scarlett Ross,

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<v Speaker 2>Charlotte Patrick, Melissa Leva, and Kay Smith. All those amazing

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<v Speaker 2>people signed up over on Patreon and are supporting us there.

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<v Speaker 2>So thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a good list of people.

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<v Speaker 2>It is some awesome people over there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know about you, but I'm ready to dive

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<v Speaker 2>into this case. Like now I'm excited.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and I'm presenting today you are holy shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that that time off got us some availability for Nicole. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>some episode research done, so.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're back. I'm back, let's go. This might be

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<v Speaker 1>like a freakin slippery slope because I haven't done this

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<v Speaker 1>in a while, so you know, it could be a

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<v Speaker 1>Donnelly repeat if you know, you know. So, yeah, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a Canadian story. This I'm going back to my

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<v Speaker 1>roots of you know what. The beginning, I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna do mostly Canadian stories. Yeah, and so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>doing a Canadian story.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm stoked for this one because this is one of

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<v Speaker 2>those stories where it's like it needs to be a

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<v Speaker 2>staple in the true crime world. Oh yeah, the more

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<v Speaker 2>that we talk about this case, I think the better.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not only good for, of course, the victims, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's good awareness for everyone out there listening.

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<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm. It was covered pretty extensively nationally, like within Canada.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure how much it was. It was covered internationally,

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<v Speaker 1>so it could be a new case, but it's also

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<v Speaker 1>a newer case in comparison to some of the cases

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<v Speaker 1>we've covered. I feel like any case over two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>is new ish, And I don't know if that dates me,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's what I feel.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it dates you because I mean, that's twenty

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<v Speaker 2>that's a twenty three year time period.

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<v Speaker 1>Too, sha, So to sche that's young.

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<v Speaker 2>Like some people with like a twenty five LIFs like

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<v Speaker 2>a life sentence or whatever, like they're they're almost like it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you know that's disturbing. Yeah, okay, So we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Tim Bosma today. So Tim Bosma was a hard

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<v Speaker 1>working self employed contractor. He was a husband and a

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<v Speaker 1>father who lived in Ancaster, Ontario. He grew up in

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<v Speaker 1>Hamilton in the Hamilton area of Ontario and was born

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<v Speaker 1>on July twenty third, nineteen eighty. He was known for

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<v Speaker 1>his strong family ties and as I feel like you

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<v Speaker 1>have to when you're an entrepreneur because the hours ain't short.

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<v Speaker 1>Had a passion for his work.

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<v Speaker 2>That's good.

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<v Speaker 1>He was also passionate about his hobbies, which included motorcycles.

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<v Speaker 1>Tim married his lovely wife, Charlene, in February of twenty ten.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's actually the same year we got married, isn't

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<v Speaker 1>it It is? Yeah, wow, And the happy couple welcomed

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<v Speaker 1>their first child, a daughter, later that year in December.

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<v Speaker 2>That is not us no, thankfully.

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<v Speaker 1>Tim's role as a husband and father was central to

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<v Speaker 1>his life. His wife Charlene has spoken about their closer

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<v Speaker 1>relationship and the joy they found in parenthood. They shared

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<v Speaker 1>the responsibilities of caring for their daughter and building a

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<v Speaker 1>life together, as many people do. The family, though they

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<v Speaker 1>lived paycheck to paycheck, if you will. They were a

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<v Speaker 1>young family and at the time money was a bit tight.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like now that's even more relatable now because

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<v Speaker 1>of the cost of everything nowadays. It's unbelief.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it seems like it's just gone up exponentially while

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<v Speaker 2>everyone's pay has stayed basically stagnant.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So it's actually a bit disgusting, it really is.

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<v Speaker 1>So them living paycheck to paycheck led them to decide

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<v Speaker 1>to list their two thousand and seven black Dodge Ram

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<v Speaker 1>pickup truck in twenty thirteen, as the repair bills were

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<v Speaker 1>getting to be a bit costly. They hoped to find

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<v Speaker 1>a buyer who would appreciate the vehicle and ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>it went to a good home. I feel like you,

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of what you're looking for. He probably really

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<v Speaker 1>liked his truck, and he was like, well, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to find someone that will also love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I can respect that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. An online ad was placed on Kajiji listing the

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<v Speaker 1>truck for twenty four grand, which would help the family

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<v Speaker 1>immensely so when they got a bite. On May sixth,

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<v Speaker 1>Tim rushed home from work to meet the Perspective buyer,

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<v Speaker 1>who wanted to see the truck. By the time the

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<v Speaker 1>Perspective buyer arrived at the Bosma residence, it was quite late,

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<v Speaker 1>like just after nine to twenty pm. Late.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, see, that's that's it's a little too late for

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<v Speaker 2>my liking. I'm not sure if I would accept someone

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<v Speaker 2>coming over, a stranger coming over my house at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>But then they also had like twenty four grand on

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<v Speaker 1>the line, right, so they're like, true, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>be accomminating and maybe this will just be like an

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<v Speaker 1>easy cell and then we get our paycheck.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's easier to say in hindsight. Yeah in my seat.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, you're right.

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<v Speaker 1>But I know if it was dark, I'd be like,

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<v Speaker 1>hell no, which it probably will. I hate the dark.

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<v Speaker 1>I like run around in the dark because I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be out here.

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<v Speaker 2>You're the type of person to like be in the

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<v Speaker 2>basement and turn the light off and run up the stairs.

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<v Speaker 1>Really quick one hundred and ten percent.

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<v Speaker 2>See, I'm the type to turn the lights off and

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<v Speaker 2>walk slowly up the stairs. But panicking inside, being like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>it's okay, okay, just walks over, you got it. There's

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<v Speaker 2>no one, there's no one that you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I would get out of that situation as fast

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<v Speaker 1>as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>I act calm on the outside, but I'm screaming inside.

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<v Speaker 1>So this perspective buyer. He strolled up the driveway. He

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't alone though, he had a friend, and he told

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<v Speaker 1>Charlene that they had been dropped off down the street.

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<v Speaker 1>So they just kind of like walked up the street

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<v Speaker 1>and then were there. And it's kind of weird, right,

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<v Speaker 1>like that's that's fucking yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well I think weren't they supposed to be dropped off

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<v Speaker 2>by a friend and the friend was going to grab

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<v Speaker 2>them coffee or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know all I'm not sure about the coffee part,

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<v Speaker 1>but all I knew is I mean there was no vehicle,

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<v Speaker 1>Like generally, when you're going to test her have something,

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<v Speaker 1>you'd show up in another vehicle. Yeah, you'd park it

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<v Speaker 1>in the driveway and then yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Do remember there being a vague excuse on why their

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<v Speaker 2>friend dropped him off like a few blocks away or something,

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<v Speaker 2>and they walked over and it seems to me that

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<v Speaker 2>he was going to coffee. He was coffee, He's going

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<v Speaker 2>to Timmy's. I literally was going to say, I'm pretty

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<v Speaker 2>sure he was headed to Tim Horton instagrab him coffee

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<v Speaker 2>or or something like that. Boy, But it was such

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<v Speaker 2>a minute and weird detail. I don't think MANYEAHO will

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<v Speaker 2>talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, it makes sense though if it was Timmy's.

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<v Speaker 1>So it all seemed a bit weird. But Tim and

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<v Speaker 1>Charlene had chatted prior to their arrival that if they

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to do a test drive that Tim would go

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<v Speaker 1>with them. They had a lot of money to be

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<v Speaker 1>lost if the truck, say, didn't return from said test drive. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course, although it was late the perspective buyers

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<v Speaker 1>did request to take it for a spin.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean understandable. Have you sort of used vehicle?

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<v Speaker 2>Makes sense?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean yeah, it was like I mean, that's

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<v Speaker 1>it was a bit of a it was a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a penny, So it makes sense that they'd want

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of take it for a spin before they

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<v Speaker 1>decided if they want to invest in it or not.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, totally.

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<v Speaker 1>So at some point though, Charlene realized they'd been gone

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<v Speaker 1>for longer than she expected. At most, how long would

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<v Speaker 1>a test drive take? Like, what fifteen minutes? Maybe half

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<v Speaker 1>an hour?

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, yeah, something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>But Charlene also couldn't get a hold Tim on his

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<v Speaker 1>cell phone. So when she couldn't shake the feeling that

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<v Speaker 1>something was wrong any longer, I think it was about

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<v Speaker 1>an hour or so, she decided to contact the police.

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<v Speaker 1>Minutes turned into hours, and hours turned into days, with

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<v Speaker 1>Tim still not returning home from the test drive. This

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<v Speaker 1>was very unlikely behavior from him to not stay in

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<v Speaker 1>touch with his family. He was super family oriented and

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<v Speaker 1>connected to them. Tim was declared officially missing by a

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<v Speaker 1>Hamilton Police service on May seventh, twenty thirteen. Two days later,

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<v Speaker 1>Charlene appealed to the kidnappers to return her husband during

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<v Speaker 1>a press conference, stating, and I can like hear this,

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00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.919
<v Speaker 1>so can I. It was just a truck, a stupid truck.

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<v Speaker 1>You do not need him, but I do. Our daughter

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<v Speaker 1>needs her daddy. Like that just gives me fucking goost bumps,

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<v Speaker 1>Like hold shit breaks me.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine not only how that wife feels, but

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<v Speaker 2>how the daughter is feeling too, in the whole family.

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00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:11.759
<v Speaker 1>Well, the daughter, Yeah, she's two, two.

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<v Speaker 2>Years old, she's probably like she's at that point where

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<v Speaker 2>she's able to communicate. Oh yeah, she's probably wondering where

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<v Speaker 2>daddy is.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like that's really young.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The initial steps in the investigation involved interviews with family, friends,

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00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.720
<v Speaker 1>and witnesses, all aimed at piecing together Tim's last known moments.

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00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.279
<v Speaker 1>They wanted to establish a timeline of events and any

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00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:40.200
<v Speaker 1>potential motives for his disappearance. They examined Tim's phone and

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00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:44.279
<v Speaker 1>communication records to determine if there were any calls or

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00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:48.960
<v Speaker 1>messages that could provide clues about his whereabouts or contacts

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00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:54.000
<v Speaker 1>contacts with the Perspective buyers. Given that Tim had arranged

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00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:58.519
<v Speaker 1>the test drive through an online advertisement right Kajiji, law

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00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:04.039
<v Speaker 1>enforcement also conduct investigations into the online communications between Tim

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<v Speaker 1>and the potential buyers. This included examining email exchanges in

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00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.639
<v Speaker 1>any other digital correspondence. But police quickly discovered that the

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00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:20.440
<v Speaker 1>phone used to contact Tim had been a Burner phone.

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00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Using the call records from the Burner phone, police discovered

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00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>that the men had arranged two other test drives in

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00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:33.679
<v Speaker 1>similar vehicles in the days prior to meeting with Tim. Right,

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00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.799
<v Speaker 1>I forgot about that, which is real. Fucked Yeah, they

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00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.559
<v Speaker 1>failed to arrive on time at the one, and that

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00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.720
<v Speaker 1>the second it took place in Toronto on May fifth,

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00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.759
<v Speaker 1>the men did show up to that one. They matched

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00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the description of the pair who had left with Tim,

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00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.879
<v Speaker 1>but that owner didn't face the same fade as Tim.

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00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.919
<v Speaker 1>Efforts to track the location of tim truck. We're also

307
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:05.960
<v Speaker 1>in place, including using any available GPS or tracking systems,

308
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.200
<v Speaker 1>and while this was going on, the community rallied with

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00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:15.120
<v Speaker 1>volunteers and law enforcement launching extensive searches in an attempt

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00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>to locate Tim.

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<v Speaker 2>This is one of my favorite part of any true

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00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.840
<v Speaker 2>crime case is when the community fucking rallies up like this.

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00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:28.399
<v Speaker 2>It's absolutely incredible because if I'm being honest, researching so

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00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>many of these cases, I lose faith in humanity so

315
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.559
<v Speaker 2>fucking easy, Yeah, because there is such fucking scum out there.

316
00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:40.039
<v Speaker 2>But then that again, that little bit of like fucking

318
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.799
<v Speaker 2>ray of sunshine shining through is when stuff like this happens,

319
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.120
<v Speaker 2>it's like the community is behind it, they want to help,

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00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.120
<v Speaker 2>they want to find them.

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00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:51.879
<v Speaker 1>It's like because that's when the support really shows through. Right, So,

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00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:55.559
<v Speaker 1>like Charlene, I'm sure would have just had she would

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00:16:55.559 --> 00:17:00.039
<v Speaker 1>have been just completely devastated but then been able to

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00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.080
<v Speaker 1>to move forward because she knew, like all these people

325
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.079
<v Speaker 1>were helping her and yeah, and you know, 'rall raw,

326
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:07.279
<v Speaker 1>like let's find Tim.

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00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:10.359
<v Speaker 2>Right, Like I even picture like everyone doing what they can,

328
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Like the little old lady down the street who can't

329
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.160
<v Speaker 2>join a search party or anything, but coming over with

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00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.440
<v Speaker 2>like a cast role she made for her and stuff

331
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.839
<v Speaker 2>to like, at least you don't have to cook dinner tonight,

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00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:20.799
<v Speaker 2>and I made this for you.

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00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:22.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry for well, yeah, because she also has to

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00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.920
<v Speaker 1>think about their daughter, right, Yeah, exactly, So I mean

335
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:28.759
<v Speaker 1>she needs to be strong for that. So that's tough.

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00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:33.920
<v Speaker 1>That's like an added level. Yeah. On May tenth, twenty thirteen,

337
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:38.160
<v Speaker 1>police announced they had located Tim's cellphone while searching an

338
00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:43.359
<v Speaker 1>industrial area and released updated descriptions of the two suspects.

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00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:49.960
<v Speaker 1>The following day, they arrested their first suspect. Fuck yeah,

340
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Dylan Millard. Fucking Dylan fucking Dylan is right, this asshole.

341
00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:01.039
<v Speaker 1>He's a twenty seven year old millionaire who owned several

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00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.319
<v Speaker 1>million dollar properties and was the heir to the Mallard

343
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Air which is an aviation company based in Waterloo.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wasn't gonna say much about my thoughts on

345
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Dylan because I didn't want to give.

346
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.039
<v Speaker 1>Away hearing like he's an asshole.

347
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to give too much of the story

348
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.640
<v Speaker 2>away yet because it was like, oh, maybe he's you know,

349
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.160
<v Speaker 2>a roung culprit or something, but no, no, yeah, he's

350
00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.240
<v Speaker 2>a fucking douche commy, oh.

351
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:25.440
<v Speaker 1>So big time. And you know, I'm not going to

352
00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:28.519
<v Speaker 1>say that. We'll get there. So he was charged with

353
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:34.480
<v Speaker 1>forcible confinement and theft over five thousand late Saturday morning

354
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:40.559
<v Speaker 1>on May twelfth, twenty thirteen. Tim's truck is finally found.

355
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:43.880
<v Speaker 1>This kind of gave everyone a sense of, i'll call

356
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.960
<v Speaker 1>it false hope that maybe Tim, you know, would be

357
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.759
<v Speaker 1>found next. The truck was found inside a trailer in

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00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:57.160
<v Speaker 1>the driveway of Madeline Millard's house. This is Dylan Millard's mother.

359
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.880
<v Speaker 1>The trailer was registered to The truck had been partially

360
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:08.480
<v Speaker 1>stripped of its like deco and any identification, and there

361
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:12.920
<v Speaker 1>was also blood and gunshot residue found in the Interior

362
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Law enforcement executed search warrants at various locations, including properties

363
00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.400
<v Speaker 1>owned by the suspects, and also made a public appeal

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00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.319
<v Speaker 1>for information urging anyone with knowledge of the case to

365
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:31.279
<v Speaker 1>come forward. Of the property search was a farm tied

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00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:38.079
<v Speaker 1>to Millard, and on this particular farm, investigators stumbled upon

367
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<v Speaker 1>something that caught their attention.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this part sucks.

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00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:44.920
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't out in the open for all to see,

370
00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.400
<v Speaker 1>but it was rather tucked away in the trees as

371
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:51.440
<v Speaker 1>if it was hidden. What it was was an animal

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00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:57.400
<v Speaker 1>incinerator with the words the eliminator displayed across the side.

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00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I can't actually being those officers discovering this because

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00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.160
<v Speaker 2>you know right away in this you know, you're like,

375
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:06.079
<v Speaker 2>there's there's.

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00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.000
<v Speaker 1>No question, you fucking know, you know, like you just

377
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.440
<v Speaker 1>your heart would just sink.

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00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah to quote you three seconds ago, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So the incinerator had the capacity to burn not only

380
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>a at like animal remains, but also other evidence and

381
00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:26.680
<v Speaker 1>potentially human remains. Yeah.

382
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Those things burn an extreme fucking temperature. Yeah, you put

383
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.200
<v Speaker 2>something in there, it's gone.

384
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:34.400
<v Speaker 1>And it's uh it's a pretty price too. Those things

385
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>are not cheap. So upon further inspection of the incinerator,

386
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:43.359
<v Speaker 1>that's exactly what they found. Traces of bone fragments and

387
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:48.240
<v Speaker 1>ash which were sent off for forensic analysis, and sure enough,

388
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:56.319
<v Speaker 1>the remains belonged to Tim. All hope was lost. Yeah yeah,

389
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:01.279
<v Speaker 1>Millard's previous charge was officially changed to first degree murder.

390
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.599
<v Speaker 1>On May twenty second, the day of Tim's memorial, police

391
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.000
<v Speaker 1>announced they had arrest is a second suspect, twenty five

392
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:14.079
<v Speaker 1>year old Mark Smitch. I think I don't fucking know.

393
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:15.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't even give a shit to find out if

394
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:16.440
<v Speaker 1>that's right.

395
00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Mark Pizza Schmidt's Smick.

396
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:19.359
<v Speaker 1>I think it was Smith.

397
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.240
<v Speaker 2>He's a piece of Schmidt's smick.

398
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.160
<v Speaker 1>So Mark Smick formally where the fuck am I? Okay

399
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:32.680
<v Speaker 1>and formally charged? Sorry, oh okay, fuck. They arrested him,

400
00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.640
<v Speaker 1>and the following day he was formally charged with the

401
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.519
<v Speaker 1>first degree murder, good God.

402
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.079
<v Speaker 2>And being a piece of schmich Smick Smitch.

403
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Unlike Millard, Smick came from a middle class family. He'd

404
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:50.680
<v Speaker 1>a criminal record involving petty offenses such as drug possession, driving,

405
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:55.960
<v Speaker 1>impaired mischief, failure to appear, and breach of conditions. He

406
00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.519
<v Speaker 1>sold drugs and cigarettes for a living and occasionally worked

407
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:04.400
<v Speaker 1>odd jobs in Millard's aircraft hanger. I don't really want

408
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>to spend a lot of time talking about these two assholes,

409
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.880
<v Speaker 1>but to cover the case properly, we need to admit. Unfortunately.

410
00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:15.039
<v Speaker 1>The friendship between the two started in two thousand and six,

411
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>and Smitch initially idolizes what.

412
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Just keep laughing at his last name?

413
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Did I just do something wrong again?

414
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.839
<v Speaker 2>No, I've just worn out bad joke and I'm trying

415
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:28.640
<v Speaker 2>not to say the case missed. I'm still finding it funny.

416
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh, You're gonna probably for the end. So he kind

417
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>of idolized Millard, and it was probably because I'm assuming

418
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:37.200
<v Speaker 1>like Millard's money.

419
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm most likely.

420
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.799
<v Speaker 1>Because I don't think Smick is a very smart dude.

421
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:43.119
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't sound like it.

422
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>By twenty eleven, the pair had grown closer, with Smick

423
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.839
<v Speaker 1>and his girlfriend moving into the basements suite of the

424
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:56.759
<v Speaker 1>Millard's family house. In twenty twelve, Mallard, as you probably thought,

425
00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.440
<v Speaker 1>is a bad egg. He would arrange for Smick and

426
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:04.680
<v Speaker 1>other friends to accompany him on in quotation missions, basically

427
00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.359
<v Speaker 1>night excursions to steal shit that Millard could have easily

428
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:10.680
<v Speaker 1>just purchased, but he liked the thrill of it.

429
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.319
<v Speaker 2>Did he really call them missions?

430
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Missions? It was? They were missions?

431
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.599
<v Speaker 2>What is he? Eight years old? I singing Mission impossible?

432
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.559
<v Speaker 2>Creeping through the dark.

433
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh and it's so it's like so it's it's almost

434
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:29.160
<v Speaker 1>more maddening in a sense because he could afford these things,

435
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.319
<v Speaker 1>and he's going and stealing stuff from people that A

436
00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.839
<v Speaker 1>probably don't have near as much money as him, b

437
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:38.240
<v Speaker 1>who like worked really fucking hard to probably buy said things.

438
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

439
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>So like see, you're just an asshole. Like I'm pissed

440
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:43.359
<v Speaker 1>with this these people.

441
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.720
<v Speaker 2>He's doing it just simply for the thrill and enjoyment

442
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.559
<v Speaker 2>of taking from someone else. Yeah, someone else who's earned it.

443
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Like that is not okay. That is not okay. The

444
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.559
<v Speaker 1>disappearance and discovery of Tim's fate was met with shock

445
00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.559
<v Speaker 1>and grief by the community and really the nation large,

446
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:04.880
<v Speaker 1>and was obviously a critical turning point in the investigation.

447
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.839
<v Speaker 1>The forensic analysis conducted on Tim's remains would later confirm

448
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:13.200
<v Speaker 1>the cause of death to be a gunshot, a gunshot wound,

449
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.799
<v Speaker 1>and provide valuable evidence for the prosecution's case against Millard

450
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.599
<v Speaker 1>and Smick Smith. I don't know how to say, is

451
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>that I but I really I looked earlier, but I'm

452
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:24.000
<v Speaker 1>not looking again.

453
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm not too sure. I do want to stop

454
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:27.960
<v Speaker 2>on one detail that I don't think it was his

455
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 2>remains that identified the gunshot wound because most of.

456
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:33.559
<v Speaker 1>It was in the truck.

457
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, his remains were, like I think, the DNA was

458
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:40.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty much almost completely gone too, burned away. But it

459
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.880
<v Speaker 2>was the truck, the DNA within the truck that proved

460
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:45.559
<v Speaker 2>that it was a gunshot.

461
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Because to be honest, some of the articles say that

462
00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:54.079
<v Speaker 1>an incinerator, like it wasn't even for sure Tim's, but

463
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.319
<v Speaker 1>it was kind of like assumed.

464
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so well, I do remember them also talking about

465
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.279
<v Speaker 2>with the truck because they, like you said, it was

466
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.000
<v Speaker 2>partially stripped and stuff. It was also pressure washed.

467
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.839
<v Speaker 1>Right, and there was even remains of Tim's I think

468
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>like underneath the undercarriage.

469
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.119
<v Speaker 2>That's where they found most of DNA because they pressure

470
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.440
<v Speaker 2>washed a bunch of the inside and all the blood

471
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and stuff ran down underneath the truck and was dripping off, yeah,

472
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:20.200
<v Speaker 2>and dried underneath.

473
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's really disturbing. Yeah, if you didn't realize, Ben

474
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>actually knows a lot about this case too, because I

475
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 1>mean it's not that old. It's Canadian. Yeah, I mean

476
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:35.279
<v Speaker 1>we remember it happening. So it was now time to

477
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:39.599
<v Speaker 1>get justice for Tim and his family. The trial didn't

478
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 1>begin until February twenty sixteen, and it was a high

479
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:48.160
<v Speaker 1>profile case in Canada. The prosecution presented an array of evidence,

480
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 1>including extensive forensic analysis, including DNA analysis and fingerprint evidence

481
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:58.559
<v Speaker 1>linking the defendants to Tim's truck and the crime scene.

482
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.240
<v Speaker 1>The evidence included Tim's blood in his truck and the

483
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:05.759
<v Speaker 1>discovery of his blood on a toolbox on the Millard's farm.

484
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Right right, that's what they specifically said.

485
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so they knew that this that his body was

486
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:11.640
<v Speaker 1>at the farm.

487
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I forgot about that part because wasn't the toolbox

488
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.079
<v Speaker 2>like part of the trailer or something that housed the burner?

489
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:21.519
<v Speaker 2>I think, oh, I'm not sure. I can't remember it.

490
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Don't quote me on that, but I think that might

491
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:24.400
<v Speaker 2>be part of it there, Okay.

492
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.799
<v Speaker 1>They also had video evident showing Tim leaving with the

493
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:31.559
<v Speaker 1>two suspects on the night of his disappearance, as well

494
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:35.720
<v Speaker 1>as footage of the suspects driving Tim's truck, along with

495
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:41.799
<v Speaker 1>evidence from the incinerator and witness testimonies. Because something I

496
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:44.079
<v Speaker 1>didn't even put in there, because there's some like to

497
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.039
<v Speaker 1>cover a case in one episode is sometimes kind of hard.

498
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.680
<v Speaker 1>But Millard, he you know, had employees and stuff at

499
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.599
<v Speaker 1>the air hanger, and there was even a point where

500
00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:58.039
<v Speaker 1>he had like messaged all of them and he's like,

501
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:01.119
<v Speaker 1>don't don't come to work like the next day, like

502
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.240
<v Speaker 1>don't even show up. And it was because he was

503
00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:07.039
<v Speaker 1>he had brought like the truck there or something and

504
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.920
<v Speaker 1>some shit like he's just like this most sketchiest person

505
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:10.599
<v Speaker 1>in the whole world.

506
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:13.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because after I think they shot him or whatever

507
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.799
<v Speaker 2>the they went, Yeah, that's where they went. So you

508
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.160
<v Speaker 2>then told his employees to basically fuck off for a

509
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:20.200
<v Speaker 2>day while he dealt with it.

510
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, like unbelievable. Yeah, while the exact motivation, whoa

511
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:31.319
<v Speaker 1>was that? Even English, the exact motivations of the accused

512
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:36.079
<v Speaker 1>can be challenging to prove. The prosecution argued the following

513
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:40.079
<v Speaker 1>motives during the trial. So there's a couple theft of

514
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:43.559
<v Speaker 1>the truck. So one of the primary motives presented by

515
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:47.400
<v Speaker 1>the prosecution was the theft of Tim's truck. They argued

516
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.960
<v Speaker 1>that Millard and Smick had an interest in stealing a

517
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:55.759
<v Speaker 1>specific type of vehicle and Tim's truck met that because

518
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:57.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, they had reached out to our people with

519
00:27:57.559 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 1>the same thing.

520
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Which kind of makes makes me sick to my stomach

521
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.559
<v Speaker 2>when you really analyze that situation. Yeah, how much was

522
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:05.880
<v Speaker 2>it that they were selling the truck for? Was it

523
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty five or twenty four four grand? Twenty four thousand dollars?

524
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:13.440
<v Speaker 2>So basically they valued Tim's life at twenty four thousand dollars.

525
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, and he was a dad and a

526
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.279
<v Speaker 1>husband and right a son.

527
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.839
<v Speaker 2>They're like, instead of instead of me spending twenty four grand,

528
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:23.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to kill you instead because I want

529
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.119
<v Speaker 2>to keep my twenty four Yeah, so his life isn't

530
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:29.720
<v Speaker 2>even worth that to them, Like how fucking disgusting is that?

531
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:35.839
<v Speaker 1>It's disgusting? So theft of truck financial gain, I guess

532
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.240
<v Speaker 1>you could say criminal lifestyle.

533
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:41.960
<v Speaker 2>They just enjoyed this being pieces of schmidch.

534
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Control and manipulation, opportunistic crime. Kind I feel like that's

535
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of the same as, uh, criminal lifestyle, right, the

536
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:58.039
<v Speaker 1>opportunity just presented itself and then preventing identification being that

537
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:02.200
<v Speaker 1>Tim could potentially later identify them, Right, So they kind

538
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.400
<v Speaker 1>of got into thick at this point, like what are

539
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.359
<v Speaker 1>they going to do? This? Guy like really knows what

540
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:07.920
<v Speaker 1>they look like.

541
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're taking your truck. Get out he's just going

542
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 2>to report us.

543
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The defense teams countered these arguments and maintained that

544
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:22.839
<v Speaker 1>their clients were innocent. Both Millard and Smick maintain their

545
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:27.000
<v Speaker 1>innocence throughout the trial, denying any involvement in Tim's murder.

546
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.720
<v Speaker 1>Their defense teams argued that they were unaware of any

547
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>criminal activity and were simply just on a test drive

548
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.960
<v Speaker 1>with Tim. They challenged the reliability of the evidence presented

549
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 1>and questioned the integrity of the forensic evidence, suggesting possible

550
00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:48.400
<v Speaker 1>contamination and mishandling. They also presented an alternative theory to

551
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.519
<v Speaker 1>suggest that someone else may have been responsible for Tim's murder,

552
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.960
<v Speaker 1>emphasizing the fact of there were no direct eye witnesses

553
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 1>to the murder itself.

554
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just because there's not eyewitnesses though, it doesn't when

555
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:06.279
<v Speaker 2>is there, right, But evidence still says shit, Yeah, you

556
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>put your boot in the mud and then you stand

557
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 2>next to the mud. Someone's gonna be like, oh, you

558
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:13.680
<v Speaker 2>stepped in the mud. You didn't see me, do that? Dude?

559
00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:15.640
<v Speaker 2>That's your bootprint. There's mud on your shoe right there,

560
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I can see your tracks leading over to where

561
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>you're standing. Yeah, but you didn't see it.

562
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:23.440
<v Speaker 1>I know. I would. I feel like you could say

563
00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:27.400
<v Speaker 1>nine out of ten, like, would the person actually have

564
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.799
<v Speaker 1>ever been seeing murdering someone?

565
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Nine out of ten dentists recommend that these guys.

566
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Shit. Okay, I wonder if that's even I use his

567
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>booking name, but it is one.

568
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just funny.

569
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:48.119
<v Speaker 1>So ultimately, is this where I am? Yep? Ultimately, the

570
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:51.559
<v Speaker 1>jury found Millard and Smidt guilty of first degree murder

571
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:56.279
<v Speaker 1>in June of twenty sixteen, accepting the prosecution's case that

572
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.119
<v Speaker 1>the motive behind Tim's Tim Bosma's murder was rooted in

573
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:05.000
<v Speaker 1>criminal intent, particularly the theft of his truck. They were

574
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:09.240
<v Speaker 1>sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole

575
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:15.640
<v Speaker 1>for twenty five years. The arrest, trial, and convictions of

576
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Millard and Smith provided a sense of closure and justice

577
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 1>for Tim's family and the wider community. But there's more

578
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.680
<v Speaker 1>do you know about? The more?

579
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:29.640
<v Speaker 2>There's more? Do tell hum?

580
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.160
<v Speaker 1>And again, I'm only going to touch on these things

581
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:36.640
<v Speaker 1>because this is Tim's story. But there were additional sentences

582
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:42.319
<v Speaker 1>added for additional crimes that these two assholes committed. Oh,

583
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:46.039
<v Speaker 1>Tim's life was not the only life that they took.

584
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Really, really, really, I did not know this part. Holy fuck. Okay,

585
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:54.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so, okay bell.

586
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:58.720
<v Speaker 1>In December of twenty seventeen, both Millard and Smith were

587
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.640
<v Speaker 1>convicted of the murder of Laura Babcock.

588
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:03.720
<v Speaker 2>That name rings about.

589
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:07.319
<v Speaker 1>Laura and Mallard dated for a time. She was lasting

590
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:12.079
<v Speaker 1>alive in July twenty twelve, so before Tim's murder. Her

591
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.319
<v Speaker 1>remains were never found, but it's believed they had also

592
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.599
<v Speaker 1>seen the incinerator as Tim's had.

593
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

594
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Millard and Smitch were again sentenced to life in prison

595
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:30.960
<v Speaker 1>and the parole oh with the eligibility period of twenty

596
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 1>five years and to be served consecutively. So that means

597
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that the previous sentence they were like adding twenty five

598
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 1>years onto that, so they would both have fifty years

599
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:51.799
<v Speaker 1>and not be released prior to twenty sixty three. On December, weird,

600
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:52.319
<v Speaker 1>I was just.

601
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.079
<v Speaker 2>Kind of like Matthew in my head and like thinking,

602
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:56.079
<v Speaker 2>I was like, is there a bot or something coming?

603
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:56.640
<v Speaker 2>But no, okay.

604
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:00.480
<v Speaker 1>On December eighteenth, twenty eighteen, Millard was said sentence to

605
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 1>life in prison for a third time. This time he

606
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.920
<v Speaker 1>was found guilty of taking his very own father's life.

607
00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 1>Wayne Millard.

608
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I did hear about this one.

609
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Wayne was found dead on November twenty ninth, twenty twelve,

610
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:20.359
<v Speaker 1>from a gunshot through the eye, with his death initially

611
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:25.519
<v Speaker 1>ruled as a suicide. This third life sentence was also

612
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.480
<v Speaker 1>to be served consecutively along with the other life sentences

613
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:33.240
<v Speaker 1>handed to him, meaning that Millard would serve a minimum

614
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:36.880
<v Speaker 1>seventy five years in prison before he would be eligible

615
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.599
<v Speaker 1>to apply for parole. He would be one hundred and

616
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 1>three years old.

617
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.279
<v Speaker 2>At the time, so he's gonna rot.

618
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:46.599
<v Speaker 1>Just a minute, though, I wanted to talk about his

619
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.559
<v Speaker 1>dad for a sec because it's interesting. Something I read

620
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.680
<v Speaker 1>is that if someone's like committing suicide, that they generally

621
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have pulled the trigger like with it facing them

622
00:33:58.319 --> 00:33:59.480
<v Speaker 1>in the eye.

623
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Because in their looking at it.

624
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

625
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:01.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

626
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.000
<v Speaker 1>And then also something I'd read is that the gun

627
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.359
<v Speaker 1>that was used was actually like in like a Lulu

628
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.519
<v Speaker 1>lemon bag tucked away like behind the bed, which would

629
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.400
<v Speaker 1>make no sense that it would be suicide at all.

630
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.800
<v Speaker 2>I want to know another really interesting fact about suicide.

631
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:17.880
<v Speaker 2>The reason why I knew that he wouldn't have shot

632
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.679
<v Speaker 2>himself in the eye because he's looking at it. Yeah.

633
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.719
<v Speaker 2>People who jump off buildings or jump off bridges or anything.

634
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 2>They'll take their glasses off first.

635
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, so.

636
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Usually where they jump, their glasses are laying there because

637
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:34.159
<v Speaker 2>they don't want to watch. They don't want to see

638
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:34.800
<v Speaker 2>themselves fall.

639
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's so sad.

640
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:38.480
<v Speaker 2>They take the glasses off, put them down, and they

641
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 2>jump and they close their eyes.

642
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.920
<v Speaker 1>I've also, I mean, there was something in town that

643
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.360
<v Speaker 1>had happened at some point too where someone they they

644
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:49.039
<v Speaker 1>had committed they were committing suicide, and right before they

645
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:52.800
<v Speaker 1>did it, they like put their coffee down. Yep, just like,

646
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.079
<v Speaker 1>oh my gosh.

647
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I heard about that too.

648
00:34:56.519 --> 00:34:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so one hundred and three year three when he

649
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:03.480
<v Speaker 1>was able to apply for parole. But that's obviously far

650
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:05.800
<v Speaker 1>too good to be true, is it not. This is

651
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:07.119
<v Speaker 1>going to piss you off.

652
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.719
<v Speaker 2>Back, No, here we go, all right, okay, cold one and.

653
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:12.800
<v Speaker 1>There's like nothing you can do about Wait.

654
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Wait, I'm mentally preparing myself. I need to take a

655
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:16.559
<v Speaker 2>sip here.

656
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:23.199
<v Speaker 1>I might backlash, backlash for saying this, but this is like,

657
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>this is this is Canada. I feel like being real soft.

658
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.760
<v Speaker 1>A Supreme Court of Canada decision in twenty twenty two

659
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:40.159
<v Speaker 1>struck down consecutive parole ineligibility periods as unconstitutional. What meaning

660
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 1>that Millard and Smith respective seventy five and fifteen years

661
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:47.920
<v Speaker 1>that they had have now been reduced to more than

662
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:52.039
<v Speaker 1>no more than twenty five years before they can apply

663
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.000
<v Speaker 1>for parole. They will now be eligible for parole in

664
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty forty three. This is a Supreme Court of Canada decision.

665
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:01.519
<v Speaker 2>Lay.

666
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:09.280
<v Speaker 1>Fuck yeah. The ruling said consecutive parole ineligibility period shook

667
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the foundation of criminal law and in and were incompatible

668
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:20.400
<v Speaker 1>with human dignity. But the decision was criticized by victims' families,

669
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:25.039
<v Speaker 1>and rightfully so. In my opinion, victims' families feel it

670
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:31.000
<v Speaker 1>denies individual justice to each person killed by a multiple murderer.

671
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:34.400
<v Speaker 2>It does, and it also promotes a murderer if say

672
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.920
<v Speaker 2>they do murder once, maybe just had a panic or something, Well,

673
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:39.559
<v Speaker 2>I did it once, Some might as well keep going

674
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:41.519
<v Speaker 2>now if I get caught, I'm going to serve.

675
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:46.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and like, also, because how much money did they

676
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.679
<v Speaker 1>did we as taxpayers or whatever have to pay for

677
00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:54.480
<v Speaker 1>those other freaking trials When it was just like, oh

678
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.760
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't matter, Like that's bullshit.

679
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I have one fucking thing to say to Canada

680
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.199
<v Speaker 2>the Canadian government right now, and I'm going to say

681
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:05.679
<v Speaker 2>it as a fucking Canadian to Canadians.

682
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:09.159
<v Speaker 1>Come on, I know, well, that's why I was like,

683
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:13.199
<v Speaker 1>that's a bit soft, like that's that's it's not okay.

684
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:14.880
<v Speaker 2>So that was like the most polite.

685
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.480
<v Speaker 1>That was really. I was actually a bit worried about

686
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:18.400
<v Speaker 1>what you were going to say.

687
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:21.840
<v Speaker 2>That's why I did it. Some Canadian the Canadian arguing

688
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I didn't.

689
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 1>Look at you when you were saying that, because I

690
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.360
<v Speaker 1>was like, what's he gonna say? Okay? So, Laura bab

691
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Cock's mother said in a statement, these judges believe that

692
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.679
<v Speaker 1>it is cruel and unusual punishment to give a person

693
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.480
<v Speaker 1>a sentence that leaves them no hope for the future.

694
00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:44.480
<v Speaker 1>We have no hope. Our family and friends have suffered

695
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.519
<v Speaker 1>the loss of our dear daughter Laura for over a decade.

696
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:51.480
<v Speaker 1>The grief and heartache are no less now than when

697
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:56.559
<v Speaker 1>she was cruelly taken from us, Which makes sense. Yeah, So,

698
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Millard and Smick have appealed all of their convictions, but

699
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.320
<v Speaker 1>as of right now, they have all been rejected. Thankfully.

700
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Good.

701
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Tim Bosma was portrayed in the media as a

702
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.400
<v Speaker 1>loving husband and father which generated empathy from the public.

703
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.440
<v Speaker 1>His family's emotional pleas for his safe return resonated with

704
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:23.400
<v Speaker 1>many many people, and his story was relatable because the

705
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:25.840
<v Speaker 1>majority of us, at some point in time have met

706
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:30.039
<v Speaker 1>with a stranger to sell an item. The case prompted

707
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.559
<v Speaker 1>discussions about personal safety, particularly in the context of online transactions.

708
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:39.599
<v Speaker 1>It led to increased awareness about taking precautions when meeting

709
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:44.079
<v Speaker 1>with stranger for sales or purchase purchases arranged through the Internet,

710
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:49.119
<v Speaker 1>highlighting the potential danger of online transactions. It served as

711
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.679
<v Speaker 1>a wake up call for individuals involved in buying and

712
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:57.519
<v Speaker 1>selling goods online, reminding them to take safety precautions when

713
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:03.559
<v Speaker 1>meeting with strangers. Individual began meeting in well lit public places,

714
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:09.039
<v Speaker 1>bringing friends or family members along, or even conducting transactions

715
00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:13.320
<v Speaker 1>at local police stations to ensure their safety. The case

716
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:17.480
<v Speaker 1>contributed to discussions about the importance of personal security measures,

717
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:22.199
<v Speaker 1>not only in online transactions, but in daily life. It

718
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:27.639
<v Speaker 1>encouraged people to be vigilant, holy yes, and proactive and

719
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:32.239
<v Speaker 1>protecting themselves and their loved ones. Okay, and I'm just

720
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.239
<v Speaker 1>like going to talk here for a sec because I'm

721
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.440
<v Speaker 1>like so cautious, like probably one of the most cautious people. Ever,

722
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:44.639
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, yeah, so I was visiting family, and

723
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:47.800
<v Speaker 1>these family members I don't even think I told you this.

724
00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:49.719
<v Speaker 1>It's not really a big deal, but they were. They

725
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:53.880
<v Speaker 1>were donating an item too that was going to go

726
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:57.119
<v Speaker 1>in like a museum or whatever. Okay, And so these

727
00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:01.039
<v Speaker 1>people came to collect said item from their home and

728
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:03.920
<v Speaker 1>then they just like let them come in the house

729
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:08.880
<v Speaker 1>to collect the item. And I was just like, this

730
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.559
<v Speaker 1>is not okay, Like why are we not just bringing

731
00:40:11.559 --> 00:40:14.280
<v Speaker 1>these said items outside and like handing it to them.

732
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, do you remember with our home that we

733
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:20.360
<v Speaker 2>had before we bought the tiny home. Yeah, it was

734
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:21.400
<v Speaker 2>a relatively new build.

735
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, oh god, and.

736
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:25.679
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot beside us where the builder was

737
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.159
<v Speaker 2>going to build another home. Yep, these people knocked on

738
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 2>our door.

739
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:32.039
<v Speaker 1>It's actually a shock that Ben is alive right now,

740
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:32.880
<v Speaker 1>just saying.

741
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:35.920
<v Speaker 2>These people knocked in our door. It was a nice

742
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.039
<v Speaker 2>couple and they're just like asking some questions about the

743
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:39.840
<v Speaker 2>builder and you know, the house and what we think.

744
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.280
<v Speaker 2>And I just like, you guys want to come in

745
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 2>and take a look around. You can like see the house,

746
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.719
<v Speaker 2>go in the basement, cross space, whatever the fuck you want.

747
00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:49.159
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you all about the house. So it calls

748
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:51.920
<v Speaker 2>off at work and I'm at home with these strangers

749
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:54.079
<v Speaker 2>just coming into the house looking.

750
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Around, and I think I came home and was like,

751
00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:59.880
<v Speaker 1>what the actual fuck did you?

752
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:01.760
<v Speaker 2>They were super nice though.

753
00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but also they were just like case in the

754
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:05.320
<v Speaker 1>joint probably, and we're like, we're gonna break in and

755
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:09.039
<v Speaker 1>steal this and this, and they didn't. Well frick even

756
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.400
<v Speaker 1>even this morning, I woke up like half an hour

757
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:16.000
<v Speaker 1>before the alarm to a fucking doorbell ringing and we

758
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.639
<v Speaker 1>don't even have a fucking doorbell. So like this was

759
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:20.840
<v Speaker 1>in my dream and I was like, oh my gosh,

760
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.760
<v Speaker 1>I it's six thirty in the morning, Like who is

761
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.039
<v Speaker 1>ringing our doorbell? And then I was like I'm not

762
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:28.199
<v Speaker 1>answering it, Like that's what goes in my head.

763
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:34.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fair enough to be, to be faul fair. That

764
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.800
<v Speaker 2>was before the podcast, in my start of prime research

765
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:39.440
<v Speaker 2>and stuff too, so I had become a lot more

766
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:40.480
<v Speaker 2>cautious since.

767
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:41.960
<v Speaker 1>So would you do that again?

768
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Probably?

769
00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Are you serious?

770
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 2>We already did. In the tiny home, we had someone

771
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:48.760
<v Speaker 2>else to come look at our tiny home because they

772
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:51.519
<v Speaker 2>were curious about tiny home. Yeah, that was only like

773
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:52.079
<v Speaker 2>a year ago.

774
00:41:53.199 --> 00:42:00.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, moving on. This newfound awareness transcended the low community

775
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and reached a national level. It led to discussions on

776
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:10.559
<v Speaker 1>national safety guidelines for online transactions, inspired educational initiatives, and

777
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:15.239
<v Speaker 1>spurred policy changes amid or aimed at enhancing security and

778
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:19.480
<v Speaker 1>digital transactions. Sorry, you keep looking at me funny.

779
00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:21.199
<v Speaker 2>And I was just like you're telling me a story.

780
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:24.679
<v Speaker 1>The murder of Tim is a haunting tale of an

781
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 1>ordinary but extraordinary man whose life was cut far too

782
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:33.119
<v Speaker 1>short during what should have been a simple transaction. It's

783
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:37.800
<v Speaker 1>a story of profound loss and resilience, and it showed,

784
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:41.079
<v Speaker 1>like Tim's family in the community's true colors as they

785
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:45.960
<v Speaker 1>stood together. As Charlene said, it was just a truck,

786
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 1>a stupid truck. Charlene founded a charity in memory of

787
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:55.440
<v Speaker 1>her husband called Tim's Tribute. It offers financial aid for

788
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:59.960
<v Speaker 1>immediate and trial related needs of families affected by homicide.

789
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:03.159
<v Speaker 1>Charlie noticed the gaps within the system, and she was

790
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:06.639
<v Speaker 1>compelled to help others suffering from the same horrific loss

791
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:08.360
<v Speaker 1>as she herself went through.

792
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:11.719
<v Speaker 2>It was just a truck.

793
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:13.400
<v Speaker 1>It was just a truck.

794
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.480
<v Speaker 2>And do you remember why he wanted that truck?

795
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.000
<v Speaker 1>In the first place. Yeah, no, I never came across that.

796
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Why the dude was actually after the truck, Oh Millard? Yeah,

797
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Why Millard was after the truck because he wasn't for

798
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:31.840
<v Speaker 2>parts or something. Wasn't for parts. Well, he was like

799
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:34.039
<v Speaker 2>rebuilding another one or something like that. But he basically

800
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:38.719
<v Speaker 2>wanted this specific truck because it's like gas mile race

801
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:42.320
<v Speaker 2>mileage ratio or something like that. It was a specific like, hey,

802
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.000
<v Speaker 2>this will save me some money this specific truck because

803
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:47.800
<v Speaker 2>he was part of that like fucking Baja race or

804
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.559
<v Speaker 2>whatever that was like five days across the desert, because

805
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:52.360
<v Speaker 2>his dad had all the money in the company, right,

806
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.280
<v Speaker 2>so he was like a kid of money, and so

807
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:57.159
<v Speaker 2>he went and did this race and like fucked up

808
00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:01.119
<v Speaker 2>on the first day and fucked totaled his car, and

809
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:03.960
<v Speaker 2>then they decided next time he goes and does it

810
00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:06.159
<v Speaker 2>because it cost him so much money and gas to

811
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:08.880
<v Speaker 2>haul this race car down on a trailer with a

812
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.199
<v Speaker 2>truck that he needed to find a specific truck that

813
00:44:11.320 --> 00:44:13.000
<v Speaker 2>was more fuel a car.

814
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay that part rings a.

815
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Bell, yes, And this Dodge pickup truck was the truck

816
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:21.320
<v Speaker 2>he decided he needed. So he just wanted this truck

817
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:23.880
<v Speaker 2>so he could haul his race car so he can

818
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:24.800
<v Speaker 2>go race.

819
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.519
<v Speaker 1>Wow, And so he.

820
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Decided to steal one instead of buy one. Yeah, and yeah,

821
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:32.400
<v Speaker 2>there were I think there were parts and stuff because

822
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:34.920
<v Speaker 2>he was gonna like mash some different ones together, like

823
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.119
<v Speaker 2>build like basically build the truck up again, make it,

824
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:38.480
<v Speaker 2>make sure it was good for the road, right.

825
00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

826
00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:40.760
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, he basically just like, yeah, I'm just gonna

827
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go on a race and I don't want

828
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:44.119
<v Speaker 2>to steal someone's truck and kill them so I can

829
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.159
<v Speaker 2>go race my race car with Daddy's money.

830
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.800
<v Speaker 1>And I don't have the name of the person that

831
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 1>they had the test drive with before, but they were

832
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.840
<v Speaker 1>within the test drive, like these two assholes found out

833
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.360
<v Speaker 1>something about him, like I think he's like ex military

834
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:03.760
<v Speaker 1>or something, and so they had they that scared them

835
00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:07.639
<v Speaker 1>off because if it wasn't for that, they probably would

836
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:08.400
<v Speaker 1>have done this to him.

837
00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

838
00:45:09.400 --> 00:45:14.559
<v Speaker 1>So, which this story is just it's fucking haunting to

839
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 1>be honest.

840
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah no, this this ship is bananas.

841
00:45:18.079 --> 00:45:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

842
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Anas.

843
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.519
<v Speaker 1>This is literally one of like the reasons why I

844
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.639
<v Speaker 1>just like have trust issues is this story. It's probably

845
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:28.360
<v Speaker 1>the start of it. Honestly, this was kind of a

846
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:31.039
<v Speaker 1>big deal because it was like holy shit, like people

847
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.079
<v Speaker 1>might not even nest I mean they would have thought

848
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:35.280
<v Speaker 1>about it, but not to this extent before they went

849
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:36.400
<v Speaker 1>to like sell a vehicle.

850
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fair enough, because I mean, like we all grew

851
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:40.119
<v Speaker 2>up with like, hey, don't meet strangers, don't get in

852
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:41.880
<v Speaker 2>a stranger's car, like all this sort of stuff. It

853
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:44.840
<v Speaker 2>was like almost like hypothetical at a point, and then

854
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, it's all across the news. This

855
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:51.719
<v Speaker 2>dude got into a vehicle with a stranger, his own vehicle,

856
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.239
<v Speaker 2>but a stranger was in his vehicle with him, and

857
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:55.239
<v Speaker 2>he fucking killed you.

858
00:45:55.559 --> 00:45:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Like, is what what you even do? Like I don't

859
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:01.719
<v Speaker 1>even know how people go boat sounding vehicles nowadays then,

860
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:05.280
<v Speaker 1>because how would you do it without having to go

861
00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:06.559
<v Speaker 1>on a test drive with them?

862
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I would honestly probably just let them go on a

863
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:13.480
<v Speaker 2>test drive solo. If they sell the vehicles insured, and

864
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.440
<v Speaker 2>yeah if they if they steal the car, they steal

865
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the car, you report them. Whatever.

866
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, we saw the vehicle like what two years ago.

867
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember you.

868
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:25.400
<v Speaker 1>I think were at work, but they came over to

869
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.079
<v Speaker 1>look at it and they like went in, and I

870
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:28.719
<v Speaker 1>thought they were just like trying it out and then

871
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:30.519
<v Speaker 1>al sudden they just like drove off and I was

872
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 1>like shit, yeah, like okay, but they just went like

873
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:37.280
<v Speaker 1>a tiny bit down the road, but they didn't say anything,

874
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.480
<v Speaker 1>and so it is. It's bizarre, but I would prefer

875
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:42.920
<v Speaker 1>that then, like me also being in there and them

876
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:44.280
<v Speaker 1>just like going, you.

877
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Know, yeah, no fair enough. And when because they decided

878
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.440
<v Speaker 2>another day, they're like oh they called back like okay, yeah,

879
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:51.880
<v Speaker 2>we'll buy it. Can you like deliver it to the house, right, Yeah,

880
00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.440
<v Speaker 2>So then yeah, I think I took time off work

881
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:57.440
<v Speaker 2>to drive with you, to be at the house their

882
00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:58.239
<v Speaker 2>house with you.

883
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:01.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because yeah, because yeah, they were also giving us

884
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:05.280
<v Speaker 1>money and stuff, and so yeah, it's interesting. Selling stuff

885
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:05.880
<v Speaker 1>is interesting.

886
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.239
<v Speaker 2>You had to bring muscle with you, is what we're saying.

887
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which honestly is probably It's never a bad idea

888
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.480
<v Speaker 1>to be overcautious in my opinion.

889
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.360
<v Speaker 2>It's definitely not. Nope, safety first.

890
00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Right from the from the ex safety guy.

891
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Yep, well, good job in this episode. It was nice

892
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:25.239
<v Speaker 2>to actually be back and have you do an episode.

893
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:29.760
<v Speaker 1>While it has been a lot been while since, so

894
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.760
<v Speaker 1>you sorry, wow, keep going.

895
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone wants gon to keep singing. I

896
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:37.360
<v Speaker 2>am not a good singer.

897
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.400
<v Speaker 1>So, oh my goodness. Okay, well now we're gonna we're

898
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:44.719
<v Speaker 1>gonna log off of this and we're going to record

899
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:50.800
<v Speaker 1>to Patreon episodes. What she said, thanks so much for

900
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.320
<v Speaker 1>being here and for allowing us. So many of you

901
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.400
<v Speaker 1>were just so kind when it came to us having

902
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:58.559
<v Speaker 1>a break for like our mental health and just a

903
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:00.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit of a reboot. So we really appreciated that.

904
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that mental lots. We had some kind messages and

905
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.280
<v Speaker 2>comments and all that sort of stuff, and it was

906
00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:08.559
<v Speaker 2>really nice to see that you guys are not only

907
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:10.400
<v Speaker 2>here to be like, hey, crack the whip and give

908
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:13.639
<v Speaker 2>us episodes. It's like, no, you're you're here kind of

909
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:15.639
<v Speaker 2>like as a community with us, and you're backing us

910
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:18.239
<v Speaker 2>and you're here for what we need too. So that

911
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:19.440
<v Speaker 2>meant a lot. Thank you.

912
00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:22.800
<v Speaker 1>It was really nice. Yeah, okay, go on your spiel.

913
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember what it is? We haven't insta Facebook, website, YouTube.

914
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:33.239
<v Speaker 2>Patreon, keep going. You got the spiel? Apparently, go for it.

915
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know, but check out our website. Everything

916
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.079
<v Speaker 1>is probably linked on there. I don't even know what

917
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:40.280
<v Speaker 1>it is. Wicked and Grim podcast dot com.

918
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:44.039
<v Speaker 2>I think it's just Wickedangrim dot com. Our emails Wicking

919
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.639
<v Speaker 2>and Grim podcast, but I'm Wicked Grim dot com.

920
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:49.679
<v Speaker 1>Is it gonna come up? Okay, well, oh it comes

921
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:51.159
<v Speaker 1>up Wickedangrim dot com.

922
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.320
<v Speaker 2>There you go. I'll give this spiel. Then you can

923
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:55.719
<v Speaker 2>go ahead and check our website Wicked Andgrim dot com.

924
00:48:55.719 --> 00:48:58.480
<v Speaker 2>We got social media's like Facebook, Instagram. We do have

925
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Twitter that we don't really use it. To get back

926
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.599
<v Speaker 2>on that. We are going to be humping out YouTube

927
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.039
<v Speaker 2>here starting this month. So I know we've said it before,

928
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:09.719
<v Speaker 2>but we are hammering down. It is happening. You got

929
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:11.440
<v Speaker 2>patron down below. If you don't want to do any

930
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:13.199
<v Speaker 2>of those things, you don't want to leave the platform.

931
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Whether you're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, doesn't matter. We appreciate

932
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.239
<v Speaker 2>you being being here, especially at this point. We're rambling now.

933
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.239
<v Speaker 2>So thank you so much. However you support us, it

934
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:26.559
<v Speaker 2>means the world. Thank you from the bottle of our hearts.

935
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:30.880
<v Speaker 2>You guys are absolutely wicked epic. Yeah, so until next time,

936
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:32.119
<v Speaker 2>stay wicked