Speaker 1: When your old career gives you lemons throwing some ice
mix in some vodka. We call it a podcast from
the Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven
by Victor Chrysler Dots. Gee rahm, it's Billified, the Bill
Moran Podcast.
Speaker 2: Well, hello and welcome. I am so excited because, uh,
doctor Rob Rice has agreed to come back become friends
with Rob through the podcast, believe it or not, Like
I think I since I started this, like all the
people I've met because of the podcast has been amazing.
And then doctor Rice comes in He's got guinness, and
I go, this is amazing. And then what's that article
over there?
Speaker 3: This is for your studio? Okay, I thought might be here,
and he was here when I first got here, so
I and I wasn't sure where things are at right now.
In terms of drink drinking, I've been asking you to
have a beer with me forever, yes, and uh it
hasn't worked out. And so I figured, well, then drink,
I'm going to bring it here and we'll have a
beer together on the podcast. It might be the only
way that it can happen. So and in just in
case there are any objections, I brought you evidence that
guinness is actually good for you, and I thought that
this would be good for the podcast.
Speaker 2: WHI is great for the podcast?
Speaker 3: So h so yes, that's it actually legitimately is good
for you. I've been living by that for a long time. Yeah,
I do dried January, but Guinness doesn't count.
Speaker 2: How about how about the same guinas that beer expert
Michael Jackson, this British King of Hops calls the world
uh classic dry stout. It's a favorite bono obviously Madonna
with a good cigar. I love this beer. I have
loved this beer for years. This is really cool. We
can hang this up in here. Yeah, that's oh thanks,
that is really cool of you.
Speaker 3: Doctor Williams. Who you know Tom Williams. He calls it
the only true breakfast beer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I used to call it my chocolate milk when
I was you know, or mother's milk. Yep, Mother's milk
is another stout like this. Do you ever have that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I didn't know.
Speaker 3: There's a real really yeah, just they have a really
good at Aurora Brewing right now. They have one called
for Fook's sake, Where's uh? Aurora is right on It's
in bushtos Basin right on.
Speaker 2: Oh that's the one. Yeah, I haven't been to there
when it was a seventh story.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, i'd be there, that would be And they
have they have something that tastes like I'm really critical
of anything that that says that they're like a nitro
stout and they try to because a Guinness, I think
is really unique. It is, but this, for Fook's sake,
at uh at Aurora is solid.
Speaker 2: It's really I like that is it like a Japanese
I don't know why Irish because it means like for fox,
it's excuse me, was the size of the planet that
way as.
Speaker 3: To say it? And you'll know what it's believe me.
Speaker 2: I know. I wanted to have you back because I
felt like the last time you were on, I didn't
we didn't talk about your book well enough, and I didn't.
I felt like I underserved you on that one. And
I really really connected with your book. And I thought
it would be because the whole portion of the book
where you talk about and it's it's let me step
back here cliff notes, and I thought was the final
title of cliff Notes, contemplating Life's meeting on the edge Okay,
so this is about you and your family and I
think another family or another couple. We're going to go
and it's is it mohawks, mox the Mountains, mox A Mountain,
That's what it was, mox the Mountain and your daughters
and dogs are up ahead, and all of a sudden
you hear the scream and the dog you think is
over the cliff, and it's just hanging on on this
ledge and then you don't even I think in the
book you're almost just down.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I wouldn't have. I don't think I would have
had the guts to go down their head.
Speaker 2: I had been conscious and I'm reading all that and
my palms got sweaty. It's so well written and so
well descriptive of that event. But everything that comes out
of that is the idea that we're one, the idea
that you and the dog are one, the connection you
had to Walter, which I think was, you know, very special.
And I went back four years later. Yeah, and all
that's laid out in the book, but I go, boy,
that that's it's just amazing. And the connection and the
people that come along, like the I don't I'm forgetting
the names muscular guy with the mohawk and then was
separate from Carl. Right.
Speaker 3: I actually never learned the most.
Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure. I just know I have
the book and I didn't have time to go back
and really check it out.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, Okay, I'm wondering someday maybe these guys
will like come across the book and be like, I
think that was me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm friends with the actual guy who you know, ultimately,
you know, led the rescue and rescued me. You know,
spoiler alert, you know all that we called called for
a helicopter.
Speaker 2: We didn't need one, yeah, but it seemed like the
helicopter was taking forever it would have.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I was. I was down twenty thirty feet
down on the side of the cliff, nothing to really
hold on to other than you know, the little bit
of graveled and stuff that I could grab on the
and then I had Walter on my shoulder.
Speaker 2: Did Walter slip down?
Speaker 3: He I didn't watch it, my daughter saw it, but
you know they they made it sound like he got
too close to the edge and the slipped and felt, yeah, just.
Speaker 2: Like the earth moved out from under his sposs pretty much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it was like Indiana Jones and the
Temple of Doom level stuff, right like straight down probably
a thousand feet, So yeah, I wouldn't have. I think
it was one of those moments where you know, Walter
is just my best friend, and I saw that, and
the next thing I knew, I was on the side
of the was on the side of the cliff with
him kind of resting in my shoulders, and and so yeah,
the book's about that hour really on the side of
the cliff and things that I was thinking, and when
I came back from the cliff, the conversations I had
with people like well you and and Tom Williams and
doctor McCabe and doctor LaRue, all the folks that we
hang out with sometimes in terms of making sense of
just how it all like. It's just the wildest thing.
Speaker 2: There's so many things in the book because you think
about you, you talk about your family, you talk about
your daughters, you talk about you know, your wife's up there,
and am I ever going to see them again? And
all I think in my mind with the book, you
were just hearing their voices. No one was getting that
close to the edge to look over and go, or
your wife did.
Speaker 3: My wife got your wife at the edge and she
said it was dizzying.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think everybody else was more just their voices.
Speaker 3: You could hear, yeah, yeah, you couldn't get very close.
And Carl, the guy who ultimately well Carl was something else.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he actually he fell the first time, but luckily
not the full thousand feet, you know, just just above
me and was able to grasp onto the side of
the clip and kind of scurry back up.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, it was. It was crazy, but all
the things that went on in your mind and contemplating
life and its meaning and what is our purpose here?
And the idea that we're all one. And we've had
many many I feel like there's been many i'll call
them teachers that have come to try to tell us
that and show us that and prove it to us.
And I would even mock me on this one, but
I'd even say Bob Marley to a certain extent, was
always saying we are are one and relax and all this,
and you know, then Bob did with a lot of people, yes,
and then there's a lot of people like you know,
religion sometimes can be made to manipulate people, and I
think they've changed Rastafarians so they could have sex with
the younger girl. I don't know, there's all theory on that,
but the point is that there's always this message and
to feel that connection and to be alone with your
thoughts in a moment of I don't know what's next.
I don't I don't know what's next. Like we like
a plan as human beings, we want that. We want
to know what's.
Speaker 3: Coming until it comes, right until it happens, and then
we're there right exactly. And that's what that was, right
when you know they couldn't imagine being in that situation
until you're in that situation m m. And then time
slows down and mystical things happen and you know it's
it's uh and I feel like there's so many of
these cool things that not just me, anybody experiences in
their life. And then afterwards, immediately afterwards, you've got this
kind of hypomania and adrenaline running and you can't believe
that it happened. And then over time kind of life
gets in the way and you kind of forget, Wow,
there was that was amazing. There was something, you know,
really mystical about that and so, and that was one
of the reasons for writing this up was because I
didn't want to lose kind of that that feeling I had,
not just afterwards, but on the cliff, because there's something
happened while I was on the cliff, right, And then
it became a good structure for talking about you know,
our aubuntu, as doctor LaRue would say, right right, you
know I am because of you, you right, you know
that we we exist because we're in this place together
right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's strange because I've even gone in
my own world more that everything is a reflection of you,
which is weird, right.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's weird. I mean there are people
will say that, you know, the the universe is like
a mirror, right, yes, and then everything to you, what you.
Speaker 2: Got, what you offer it, or what you were offering
or because then I was even talking to a family
member who said, I have been trying to manifest a
job and a different job and different this and that,
and I just I don't like the person that I do.
All she does is complain. And then I sat there
and realized, Yeah, that's me. It's just me. Being reflected
back to me through that person and you go, whoa,
and it is weird and we don't think of life
that way almost because it's I don't know that it's
too hard to but it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense. It's I was thinking about this
this morning, and because I knew we'd cover some of
this stuff, and I was I'm always trying as a
you know, as a tenured professor, I want to make
sure that I'm not coming across as too woo woo
and things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me give that real quick. You are the
head of the psychology department at St.
Speaker 3: John Fisheral Council.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a graduate program at Saint John Fisher
University at Fisher. Yeah, great place to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is impressive what's going on over there.
Speaker 3: That was originally why I reached out to you, is
because when I wrote the first book, which I had
nothing to do with you know, this kind of it
was actually about using the oh yeah, yeah, yeah, with
young people in therapy. I thought of you is because
I knew you were a Fisher Graham and I'd always
appreciated some of the thoughts you had on things on
the radio, like you know, you know it's this idea
that you know, what we put out there back to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if that's the case, like you, I mean,
do you feel like when you got off the side
of the cliff, And I know this is in the
in the book, but I'll like you kind of the feeling,
did you ever stop and think that's me coming back
to me? I I I saved myself. I know. It
was the mohawk and Carl and all these people and
the hoisting up and dropping leashes down and swinging it
over and when you're reaching for the leash. God, I'm
reading this in bed, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, I'm glad it came across, Like
it really came across.
Speaker 2: But I'm picturing it in my head and I know
you so maybe but it wouldn't matter or I was like, wow,
but did you ever feel like that's me being reflected
back to me? It's exactly what I would have done
these people.
Speaker 3: That are here, Jeez, I never thought about.
Speaker 2: I didn't either, and it wasn't said in the book.
I'm just saying it now because I go, you do
a lot of good, and I think sometimes we don't
recognize that within ourselves because we're told we shouldn't right,
we should We're always told, you know, be humble, be this,
be that, and maybe it's okay to privately go I'm
a good person and I do good stuff. And it
just came back to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not where my head was at, right. No, No,
I know it was going up we were, you know,
it was I typically like I finished the high the
forty six hig Peaks in the Aroundics with my oldest
daughter just a couple of years ago, and which we
actually did after this experience, and I really enjoy that
kind of thing. This, this particular hike was a family hike. Yeah,
you know, we had my our really good friend and
their dog with us too, and I kind of felt
responsible for the whole group. It wasn't high peak, it
wasn't an especially difficult mountain. It was only like five
miles to the top or something like that.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And so I going up there, you know, as I
was climbing, I felt like this, Oh geez, I just
want to be you know, part of this. I just
want to enjoy this right now. But I've got all
I've got to make sure that you know, my my
kids are Okay, everybody's said and every time I hear
someone get I guess.
Speaker 2: At some point you say something like I we want
to listen to the trees, yes, bathing, You want to yeah, right,
we want to hear them sucking the water up, like
hear the sounds that you can't hear.
Speaker 3: Yes, but we knowlways going on. Yes, that is that's
the idea. It's a nature based approach to approach to
therapy called forest bathing, and and I teach it to
my clients. But you know, in this particular moment, it
was a hard place. It was hard to do that
because I had all of these competing obligations, and so
after coming back up to answer your question, it was
just this intense gratitude, right, Like you know, I was
maybe before that, I was kind of not annoyed that
I wasn't by myself in the woods, but like annoyed
that I had all these you know, obligations and things
that I needed to focus on. And then you know,
after that, you know, you know, forty five minutes to
an hour on the side of the cliff, I was
just filled with gratitude, right. I was grateful to the
people who helped me out. I was grateful to the
dogs because they had the leashes that we were able
to tie together. I was grateful to my wife for
throwing me the cliff bar because my sugar went low.
I was grateful, so, you know, and like all of
those things. Yeah, Like it's it's like, you know, it's
like when you lose your keys and then you find
them and everything is great again. Right, not only great again,
but better than it ever was before you lost your keys.
Right right inside? That was I think the feeling that
I had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how long did that last? Days? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And that's so I brought it back to our group, right,
I always say when I'm when I'm teaching my classes,
I I asked my students if they've ever been to
like a diner and seen you know, the five eighty
year old guys in the corner, you know, drinking coffee
and you know, because I used to go in that. No,
well I had or maybe sometimes yes, but I always
was envious of those I felt like, what a life
to get up and go have your coffee in the
dinner with people who you relate to. And I and
we ended up finding a group like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then we'll have breakfast with those folks every once
in a while. And so I had one of those
breakfasts coming right back from this, uh, this experience, and
I shared it with them, and you know, they're the
ones who encouraged me to write it up and because
I was still, you know, really amped up about it,
uh and yeah, just kind of took off from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a great read, and you can
get on your website.
Speaker 3: You can get it right, Yeah, yeah, so cliff book,
cliff notesbook dot com. Okay, Cliff where you can get
an Amazon or on Amazon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say give it a read. It it's
something people in this area may have hiked that mountain.
It's very possible to posh. But it doesn't matter if
you did or didn't. It doesn't matter. There's something in
there that you will walk away from this read as hmm.
I never thought that way about this possible, you know,
I do.
Speaker 3: I think that's the ulterior motive there as a yeah,
as someone who's.
Speaker 2: Great adventure that you survived a wild one. But the
the metaphysical side of it is almost the point to
me that was very interesting because I don't think that
we ever explored that people don't talk about that stuff.
Speaker 3: They don't And honestly, this this was in many ways,
that story was the beginning of you know, it's been
trying to think it's been six years since that happened.
So that was the beginning of a lot of you know,
metaphysical type conversations.
Speaker 2: In my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so in a lot of ways, I was.
Speaker 2: That pretty deep or pre deep. It was pretty deep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not know it was pretty deep.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and so in fact, uh, you know, doctor
Deep shows up in the book a little bit later.
Speaker 2: Yep, just a little bit.
Speaker 3: That's the current book is uh working on writing up
all the stories from the times that we've had visits
with doctor Deep, the things he's taught me, the interviews
that I got to do with global experts about you know,
what he does and how energy impacts things like genes
and cerebral spinal fluid and all that kind of stuff.
And so yeah, that's the that's where this led to.
In a lot of ways, I feel like Cliff notes
writing that gave me the confidence to write this now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yes, I can see that. Well, it's one thing,
it's to me It's about momentum, right and then and
pot and it's the idea of feeling positive but feeling
confident I can do it. It's not. I think the
biggest fear with anything is Anne I was going to
read it and always going to do it. I don't
want to see he why why why? But when you
did it and how good you felt after the finishing
that to do another one, I think would it totally
makes sense.
Speaker 3: It's like the two minute mile, right, like when somebody
that you keep doing, oh god, that that uh the
you know, video games and psychotherapy was the first one,
and that was a very I knew I could do
that because it was academic writing, right like I've done
that forever, you know. Cliff Notes was the first time
doing something more creative.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, not more creative and very personal life.
Speaker 3: And super personal, right, which which is still anxious for me.
Speaker 2: I did put yourself out there, kind of didn't want.
Speaker 3: Friends to read it I or I wanted other people
to read it first. Yeah, I've been happy that it's
been getting good feedback, but it's it's one of those
things where like I'm not putting it on social media
or things like that.
Speaker 2: No, you don't. That's interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so and then that gave me the confidence
to do this one and so yeah, and then we'll see.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Deep one is uh yeah, very interesting.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be cool there. I have a whole I
don't know if I so with the class that we're
teaching right now, which you're gonna you're a part of.
Oh I forgot these. I was, I gotta get these
to you too. They're Guinness mini pints. What yeah, they're well,
they're like chocolates. It was a Guinness theme.
Speaker 2: Who knew? Yeah, wow, oh nice, thank you.
Speaker 3: But in this class that we're doing, the Complimentary Treatment
Methods class, where we talk a lot about different types
of energy healing and including Noddy and the stuff with
doctor Deep, I've been pulling quotes from the book and
we've been reviewing them in classes. So I brought a
bunch of those quotes with me. Maybe after a break
or something, I can we can pull a couple and
talk about them. But it's been really cool taking interviews
with Deep and with these different global experts who in
some cases have pretty poor English, and then getting the
transcription and running the transcription through AI and AI will
take that transcription and clean it up and make it
easier to under sure. Yeah, and just the stuff that's
coming out of that process has been so cool really.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what I find the most interacting is
and I think you're the perfect vehicle for this. And
sometimes I wonder even about myself. We talk about this
stuff as woo woo. Right, the alternative healing methods. My
mother did reiki, but she didn't do reiki I think
until she left she and my dad split. I don't
know that she would have done yeah, but she got
into reiki as a thing for herself. She's part of
a fifth dimension group now. Yeah. But the thing is that, like,
I don't know that she would have done that with
my dad's influence. I don't know he was as open
to that sort of stuff. And you look at Rob
and doctor Rob looks like he could swing a hammer.
They build a house, right, And if you've been around
guys who do that, they're not into woo woo. They don't,
you know what I mean? And I love that you
are because I am. I buy it all. I had
a healing yesterday. I was telling you I had the
last of three healing and I said to you. They
said to me, this will be like drink a lot
of water, will be detox. I came in here and
I drank a lot of water, and then I had
stomach issues and other things that I just didn't have
for like part of a day, and I had and
not because of that. I altered my day yesterday, but
not because of that prior. And I was very glad
it did, because I you know, but it was just
it's interesting, and I think there's so much with the
human that we just don't understand.
Speaker 3: Right, And that's it's funny we say wo wo yeah,
because it's because we can't explain it. We can well, no,
because we can't explain it. And I was typing this
conversation with my class the other day too, right that
sometimes the first people to say this is wu wu
are the first people to line up for communion? Yes, yes, Yes,
it's it's really tough sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my god, that is so fantastic that you
said that.
Speaker 3: And you know, I mean, I'm I grew up Catholic, no,
I guess, and so I have. And for me, I
try to make sense of and I feel like there's
connection between some of the things I learned growing up,
as you know, in a religious household, and some of
the things I'm learning now about you know, quantum you know,
quantum biophysics, yes, and things like that. That's one of
the things that makes this tough, right, is in one
of the reasons why I think people a lot of
people stay away from it. You know, doctor McGinnis is
a great example, right he Uh you know, I think
has faced a lot of you know, discouragement from pursuing
that that research in his career.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: You know, it's because there's stigma around it. People see
it as woo wooh, and it's it's it's almost like UFOs, right,
Like there's you know, there's clearly evidence that there's something
going on, right, but there's also a whole bunch of
misinformation and and just bullshit, right and so and it's
really hard to parse out, you know, what's what's legitimate
and what's and what's not right. And there's certainly, you know,
there's there's healers, people like doctor Deep who I I
at least believe that he absolutely has full confidence that
he's doing what he thinks he's doing, and I've seen
him do some amazing things. But then there's also snake
oil salesman out there, right. There are kind of that
make it hard for a lot of people to accept that.
Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, I think you're You're absolutely right.
I think that there are there are people that take advantage.
I think that there are people who can truly channel,
and I think there are people that are Charlatan channel
and telling you what you want to hear or whatever,
and so that gives it a bad name. But what
I was thinking back to is as you talked about,
you know, the aliens and the UFOs and this sort
of thing, and yet we don't bat an eye. And
this will sound very accusatory, maybe almost mockery to a
man who says I'm going to dedicate my life, I'm
never gonna get married, I'm gonna wear these robes. And
then we had a problem of hind cag men right
inside of such. I just feel like that whole message
got so controlled. It was a way to control other
people and not let things be of free will so much,
and run.
Speaker 3: Of those people get in the way. Yeah, and that's
it's this isn't about the self, right, And for the
people who really who I really trust and listen to
who talk about this kind of stuff. They don't believe
that there is a self. Yes, you know that there's
I forget who it was who suggested that that dogs
have a lower level of consciousness because they don't recognize
themselves in the mirror. And I always suggest the opposite,
right like that, I think dogs have a higher because
they don't recognize themselves in the mirror because they know
it's not about them, it's about every It's it's about
their connection to everything around That's very interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting it's it is the connection to
everything around them. And you see, uh, I would say,
even and with other people will tell you that the
human mind is only capable of so much. So any inspiration,
any anything is coming from a higher consciousness which anyone
can tap into and is there for everybody, and you
can have anything you want as long as you believe it.
And that's where I think we trip up as human beings,
because we go yeah, right, okay, all right, yeah, I
got it. I got it that one of maserati out here,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: That isn't for me, but it's easy to say if
you don't get it, it's easy for someone to say,
well it wasn't your time. Yes, you get it when
you get it when you're supposed to get.
Speaker 2: It, right. But we use the term with religion faith, yes,
and we won't use it in the secular world as
much because we use it as a religious term. But
I think you gotta have that or whatever that is.
I mean, Eric Clapton had the band blind Faith. Uh,
you know what I mean. You got to almost take
that leap and trust that it's there. And I think
that you are so unconditionally loved by the universe source
God that whatever you believe, they will support.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've and we've talked about that in our group, right,
like we in the universe wants us to do well
because we are the universe, right. I would actually my
favorite Roomy quote quote is you know, we're not a
drop in the ocean where the entire ocean drop. Ye
quote is a roomy it's an Indian philosopher, but it's
we aren't the entire We aren't a drop in the
ocean where the entire ocean and a drop. And I
really do believe that. I think that that's that's where
this is at. Again. The problem is people can take
that in their own ways add language to it and
and uh, add ego to it and and that's when
it becomes hard to believe sometimes and maybe legitimately woo woo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't we take a moment. I do have
some questions for you, just general psychological questions almost about
modern day things and mental health that I think that
a lot of people struggle with. And I would love
to hear some of the quotes. I do want to
talk to you a little bit about Benson Boone and
we'll see where it kind of goes from there, go
to S's great to see you.
Speaker 3: To speed up. I've got another beard. Oh my apologies,
I'll for you another one.
Speaker 2: I'm a volume. That's terrible. It's terrible. This is why
I end up in problems.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: We will take a moment and be right back feeling stressed, anxious,
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Speaker 4: Beyond the sweat. I talking to your for Sony Shue noise,
so it's not all of the nice side spent. And
then what days cons ten.
Speaker 2: Something about Benson Boone's voice that I just I really
like that. It's I guess I've always been more singer songwriter,
and I suppose he exudes that somewhat somewhat.
Speaker 3: He writes, I think he participates in writing his songs. Yeah,
when he made a joke at the concert, there's a
lyric in one of his new songs Moon Moonbeam ice Cream.
So the song is kind of like poppy and they've
been catching some flag for it because people said that
he kind of sold out with it. And I think
it was on Jimmy Fallon and they talked about it
and they ended up eating like a gallon of some
company named their ice cream Moon being ice cream, Benson Boone.
He made some jokes about it on the concert. He said,
he said, if you see me and Fanlon the other night,
you may you may know that we talked about moon
by night being ice cream. I don't know what it means.
You don't know what it means. He said, it really
doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Leave it alone.
Speaker 3: He was actually hilarious during the concert.
Speaker 2: He seems to have a real good personality.
Speaker 3: Oh, he was great. I was so I brought I
was telling you I brought a friend who had never
heard him before, and he left saying that he was
a fan.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 3: At one point he did that whole thing where someone
threw their phone up on the stage, and uh, so
he grabbed the phone and they made a joke. Oh
and she's got snapchat and started, you know, snapchatting her
friends and saying things. Uh. And then he you know,
he's got a song called pretty Slowly, and she was wasted,
I guess. And so he handed the phone back to
her and he said, so there you go. Take that.
He goes in and drive home pretty slowly. So now
I'm going to sing pretty slowly, which is how is
how you should get home tonight?
Speaker 2: That is that's really funny, Uh, doctor Rice. The I
always think it's very interested to sing the path. People
go like, what what took you the academic to keep
going on the on the mental health and the doctory program,
Because that's that's a lot of work, man, And that's
a lot of work. And I will tell you, having
done what I'm not their mind. Let's that's not right.
But it's more physical than writing a paper at times,
is more exhausting than building a brick wall.
Speaker 3: It's a different kind of Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it really can train you?
Speaker 3: It can, I think mainly because of you know, the
the rewrites and you know, being able to accept feedback
and things like that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: That's the difference between I think writing something and building
a brick wall. Right, you build a brick wall, you
can get all this energy out. You can stand back
and you can look at it and you can admire what, right,
And you know no one's gonna come and say, oh,
you put that brick in the wrong place and put
a different brick in there. Right, I'm writing. It's like
you build that brick wall, and then you got to
knock it down, and then you build again, and then
someone comes over and points something out and you got
to knock it down, and then over time you're just
knocking down little parts and rebuilding those, right. But and
so yeah, I think that's for me probably the difference
between writing and building a brick wall. And I think
I said on here before you know it's it's also
a way of just sharpening your tools, right, yeah, twenty
five percent of the time, twenty five We got to
one of my mentors, doctor McCabe, who you know, is
a woodworker, and he suggests that no matter you know,
what we want to do, if it's meaningful, we should
dedicate twenty five percent of our time to sharpening our tools,
which basically means, you know, we're not going to get
you know, one hundred percent productivity out of you know,
out of a day, right, we're going to go you know,
twenty five percent of that was sharpening our tools and
helping us do what we need to do. And that's okay, right,
they were not going to do the other seventy five
percent really well unless we dedicate that twenty five percent
to sharpening.
Speaker 2: I think that's yes, I've heard him say that, and
I think that it's very true and something that many
times we don't do. So sitting in the practice of
whatever it is, you know, even exercise or meditation, all
of it is sharpening your tools, your body or whatever.
Speaker 3: The results, right, yes, yes, the results You've got to
If you're not seeing results, then it's you gotta make
sense of it somehow.
Speaker 2: But I've been impressed because I remember saying to you,
how are you doing all this?
Speaker 3: And he said to me, I don't watch TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just go and do it. And
I was asked for an intention for the healing that
I had, and I said, I want to have a
follow her. That's what I want follow her. And it
made me think of you because I go boy, doctor
rig I mean everything from your daughter is an elite athlete,
which he just.
Speaker 3: Picked for just Thursday. She got she's the only kid
in Western New York to make it to the US
and the nationals for USA field hockey. So there's a
one hundred and thirteen girls from around the whole country
who got chosen for this. It's in Virginia Beach and
lie and twenty seven of them will end up being
on the US national team.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then the US national team is this the
the Olympic team or potentially or is this the under
like a certain.
Speaker 3: But I think they it changes every year, right, and
so some of the girls would would be potentially on
the Olympics. You know, my daughter's young right now, she's
only sixteen. Yeah, but it's that's it's that's the pathway.
This is the Yeah, you know, you get to nationals,
you make it and then it's incredible. Yeah, I'm so,
it's so cool.
Speaker 2: It's how did she how did that come about?
Speaker 3: She grew up playing ice hockey. So at some point
I got to talk to Kevin and I respect him
so much as a as a hockey daffy.
Speaker 2: Today, Saint Lawrence university.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's where my oldest daughter goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3: It's a great hockey program. And yeah, I respect any
hockey parent. It's a lot of a lot, a lot
of work, a lot of travel.
Speaker 2: But I mean she started, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she started playing ice hockey and then that kind
of she learned how to play really fast. And then
once she started playing field hockey, it was just kind
of comically good because she was used to playing on
the ice and now everything was moving slow for her,
and so it's so much fun, so much fun to watch.
Speaker 2: I love it. She uh wow. And then she's going
college on yep.
Speaker 3: Yep, she's going well, she's going to Wagner, which is
so now I got to talk to Doug yep, because
he went to Wagner. When I listened to the podcast Wrestler,
I'm like, oh my god, I got to talk to
that guy for that. Yeah, I gotta get Dougs in president.
So she's going to Wagner. Played d one field hockey,
and yeah.
Speaker 2: It goes amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's man, the process is ridiculous. I feel something again.
You know, you've got famous and a freshman right now.
I know he got some aspirations around basketball. You know,
it's not too early to really start thinking about these things.
You know, we probably were a year late getting avas
started in the recruiting process. Uh, you know, the the
D one programs are their kids are committing in their
front their sophomore year.
Speaker 2: I think I just read a separate a young man
from Monroe High School. I think he's a junior committed
to Oregon football.
Speaker 3: I saw that on Yeah, I saw it on prime
time on their primetime five five Instagram feed.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Kids like, why that's impressive, but you have another
year of high school. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, mean, actually it's late to commit to his school
like Oregon. You know, a lot of I'm going to
guess that he was one of their last commits because
a lot most big D one programs now the kids
are committing their sophomore year. Wow, it's crazy. Yeah, it
doesn't seem right right, Like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, it doesn't usually time to develop. Yeah, and you know,
all of a sudden, somebody shoots up and I don't
know for sure. Yeah, yeah, it so this has got
to be a big deal in the family for everybody.
It's exciting, I think, I mean, to me, it's it's
amazing and I I love that you. I love your
enthusiasm with it, your post and you've been along for
the ride. You've really been the passenger in this. But
it's giving us all a view of it.
Speaker 3: It's the greatest. I'm a equipment manager, yeah, and it's
it's the greatest. And I'm probably the last person she
wants to hear from, but you know, I have those
rare moments where she wants to know what I think
about something and I just did just Uh, It's it's fantastic.
I've got three daughters and they're all super different.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: My oldest is a you know, mountaineer. She's guiding this
summer in the Adirondock. She's living on a in a
in a yurt on an island for the fall semester.
Instead of studying abroad, she's going and living on an
island in a yurt for the whole semester, and her
professors will paddle out to her, you know, each week.
What Yeah, where Saint Lawrence University?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, and then yeah, what time of years is
this in the fall? Yeah? I know.
Speaker 3: And there's no showers, there's no running water, there's no
electricity that there she's it's uh, it's badass. I'm so impressed.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, ok, I'm jealous and kind of like amazed that
she would want to do this, but yes she does.
And then you know, Ava's the field hockey player. And
then I had a twelve year old who's you know,
a puppy parent at the moment.
Speaker 2: That's great, Yes, he knew puppy in the house. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: A lot of questionable decisions happening this spring.
Speaker 2: That's all right. It makes it all fun, It makes
it interesting, interesting for sure. So you with your daughters,
and then I know you you see a lot of
youth through mindfit gym. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So mindfit is my private practice. And I love the name,
by the way, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Only because I think that is absolutely the best way
to look at mental health.
Speaker 3: Well that was the original idea, right, and it's still
somewhere there in my mind. And you and I are
in a similar place in life, and that we've I
think you feel kind of the time clock taking right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I said that. The other day. I go,
if there's if the average human lives to seventy eight
in America, and I got twenty four years left. I
gotta get moving, yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that's motivation and this is all that.
The idea for Mindfit came about about ten years ago,
and what I really wanted to do is I wanted
to essentially create a gym for mental health. And so
the idea I see a lot of people who are neurodivergent,
people on the autism spectrum, and I use a lot
of like biofeedback and neurofeedback and that type of technology
and my work video game stuff, and so I wanted
to create a space where we would have all that
technology available, you know, stations for positive thinking, stations for mindfulness,
stations for biofeedback, things like that, just like you'd see
you know, stations for different you know, muscle groups in
a gym, and then have interns from Saint John Fisher,
you know, essentially play the role of trainer. And then
instead of having a like you come to an appointment
and you know, talk about your problems type model, right,
we would have sure, sure you could access individual group
or group of counseling. But once you feel like you've
got the what you need, we can provide the biofeedback
te technology. We can provide, you know, the tools that
you need to come in and practice that on your own.
And so like a gym, you would come in and
use your membership and there might be a class going
one day on mindfulness that you could participate in if
you remember. And so yeah, that's still the kind of
vision is that we would have essentially a gym for
mental health.
Speaker 2: I love it because I do think that I don't know.
If we look at you hear a lot about mental
health awareness, But what's the next step beyond awareness the
society needs to know about. And that's the stuff that
I because here's why often I'll hear things that would
fall into mental health. It's my anxiety, but it's said
in a glib way like you know, almost as though
I you know, And I thought, how do you make
meaningful change in those areas when I don't know that
we fully grasp or understand what mental health is. And
just like your body, if you're not going to the gym, slowly,
you gain the weight and you get out of shape
and you can't lift as much, and you can't because
you're not exercising those muscles. And that's why I love
the idea of the mind fit gym. But what in
mental health? How do we kind of change that with everybody?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I think part of it's the words we use. Right.
I don't even I don't even love. I don't love
the term mental health issues. Right, it's it's mental illness.
Let's call it what it is. Right, you mentioned anxiety
when you When I teach anxiety how to work with
anxiety to my graduate students and fisher, the first thing
I do is I have them, you know, get in
groups and come up with a sentence without using Google
that they can all agree on a one sentence definition
of anxiety, right, and and nine out of ten times
that definition is something like, you know, excessive worry that
causes you know, pain, and you know it makes it
hard to do the things you need to do. And
you're like, you know, it's all sorts of really problem
based ideas. And I know that I'm doing this when
I when I ask them to do this activity, but
I'm really catching them to remind them, Hey, I know
you've been in school to learn about mental illness all
this time, and how to treat mental illness. Anxiety isn't
a mental illness. We need anxiety anxiety is super important, right,
And I work with athletes, you know, when we talk
about anxiety and how to manage anxiety, right, that's where
we start with the kind of the definition of that word.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: You know, most athletes will say, well, anxiety is what
you know, is what prevents It's what makes me think
that I can't do something or perfects me from doing
what I want to be.
Speaker 2: Able to do.
Speaker 3: Right, And I said, no, No, anxiety means that you care, right,
and what would you rather be doing than something you
care about? Right? And if you can really reframe it
that way, right, like, remember, okay, I'm feeling this way,
name it right, I'm feeling this way because I care, right,
Rename it this is because I care, right, And then
remind yourself what would I rather be doing right now
than something I care about? It's great, yeah, right?
Speaker 2: But sometimes it is that simple switch. And I think
sometimes when you say I think mental health is easier
for people to digest than mental illness, yeah right, because
I can't be mentally ill, right, So why would you
say that? And I do think that there are things
like depression, where does that fall? Would that be mental illness?
And is there such a thing as mild versus severe
and where where does it fall on there?
Speaker 3: And I think, great example, Yeah, yeah, well in their sadness, yes, right, right, right,
And you know there's reactive depression, right, you get you grief,
you grieve after something, you lose someone important to you, right,
And so yes, yeah, I agree with you. I think
that there's a lot of still you know, we say
mental health awareness, and maybe the next step is to
build some more refined awareness around these concepts and these ideas,
because I think people put things like depression and anxiety
all in one bucket and they're really not they're not.
Depression is adaptive. Right. The reason why we stay in
our room and and don't want to do the things
we normally want to do and things like that when
we're depressed is because our body is telling ourselves it's
not safe for you to go out right now, right,
it's not it And so it certainly can't be like
that forever. You're going to lose your job.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But but there's there's reasons why we have these emotions,
and if we can name them, and if we can
recognize that these things all exist on a spectrum, then
I think that that goes a long way.
Speaker 2: It does.
Speaker 3: I was talking to you about externalization, right, and the
idea that you know, really from my perspective a good.
So I practice narrative therapy is my primary approach. I
use a lot of CBT in the first step in
either of those approaches is to externalize the problem, right,
and that would include things like anxiety or any diagnosis
that we might give someone.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And so when as soon as I the problem comes
up in therapy, for me, I'm no longer even looking
at the person when I talk about the problem. I'm
looking I'm looking next to them, as if the problem
is sitting there next to them, right, Because that's going
to force me to change my language. So now instead
of saying, you know, when you're anxious, I'm going to
say when anxiety is around, right, because anxiety has become
another character in your story.
Speaker 2: And by doing that, it's.
Speaker 3: It's not defining you, it's not becoming part of your identity.
And maybe even more importantly, because I work with kids, right,
it allows you know, the parents to unite with the
child against the problem.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And so now we're together looking at the problem, examining
it effectively. Instead of the child feeling like, you know,
the problem exists within them and anything that someone tells
them is going to be you know, approach with judgment
because they're going to feel judged.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really really insightful.
Speaker 3: It's really sure it's common therapy techniques.
Speaker 2: No, but I don't know if they are. I have
no idea. What don't know. But yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Is like, and it's it's amazing to me. But I
just feel like mental health has become a buzzword.
Speaker 3: It is mindfulness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, mindfulness, And I would say that you have
to do I think that's the real work in life.
Not so much of the mindfulness but maybe. But the
real work is the idea that I'm going to look
away from the problem and focus on something that's going well.
And when I do that, I feel better and my
mental health is better.
Speaker 3: And never say that all the time, right, focus on
the better feeling thought, Well, the.
Speaker 2: Better feeling thought. Yes, I even sometimes I often sometimes
go Okay, easy to say, right, but I could have
four things going well, one going bad. If I focus
on the one going bad, everything goes right in the shitter.
So how do I keep it this way? And sometimes
I think like that's where I often believe that we
have misinterpreted Jesus. And the idea of turn the other
cheek was to turn away from focusing on the problem
and let's focus over here. And you almost like sometimes
if you, even if you hurt yourself, if you start
to think of something else, it goes away. Or a child,
you try to distract the child from whatever just happened,
and they're laughing and running and playing and within seconds
versus five minutes of crying over something that really wasn't And.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you're ignoring the problem either, right, No, No,
when you know, when I start, I don't even talk
about a problem. In therapy, usually into late in the
first session, we're spending a lot of time talking about
strengths and things and interest and strengths and things like.
Speaker 2: That just show you all the good stuff.
Speaker 3: And actually there's research that says that you learn more
about someone's problems if you ask about their strengths. Right,
if you ask someone about their strengths, they're gonna have
a hard time. They're gonna start to talk about it.
They're gonna say, I like to do this, but you know,
anxiety gets on the way and I can't, right, and
they're gonna oftentimes be more open to and more you know,
uh forth right with what they're you know, with the
problems are if you're asking them about their strengths, because
they're you know, you're at that point you're not the
expert judging them. You're you're someone who's trying to understand
them as a person. Right, And so the research is
pretty clear that you can actually learn more about someone's
problems by asking them about their strengths. And then there's
another narrative therapy technique called reauthoring, which is essentially shining
a light on moments of competence and asking people what
they notice.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And so you're not ignoring the problem, right, You're you're
focusing on an example outside of the problem.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: If someone's late all the time and they show up
one day on time, then spend a lot of time
talking about that, right, like, how'd you do at that time?
That's awesome? How'd you get here on time? What did
you change about?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Really, instead of focusing on how come you're late all
the time?
Speaker 2: Right? And this one time exactly.
Speaker 3: Right, because it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Right, You
know what, kids live up to our expectations. We live
up to the expectations that we have for ourselves. I
was telling you about some really cool research that looks
at free will that I learned about recently. I have
one of my clients, his father is probably got the
coolest job I've ever heard. It's it's a neuroscience philosopher
and amazing teaches neuroscience philosophy at our I T And
so he talks about, you know, the origins of consciousness
and all that kind of stuff that that that we
talk about in group and think that we're understanding at
the higher level. And you do, You're you're right in there.
And and see, he shared with me some really cool
research around free will. And they've done some studies where
they've examined people's you know, hooked people up to EEG
monitors and they looked at their brain activity while giving
them certain tasks or things like that, and consistently there's
brain activity in an area suggesting that they're going to
do something before they actually become consciously aware that it's
something that they might do. Right, And so the evidence
says that our brain, something in our brain is happening
before we make any decision, before we're any consciously aware
of any decision. Right as if you know, as we
talk about sometimes, you know, there's this universal consciousness that's
feeding us, right, and so from that perspective, there is
no free will. But there's also you know, a strong
evidence that once that we can say no.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So once that impulse, once we are urged to do something,
we can say, you know, by the universe, we can
say no, I'm not going to do that, right, And
so there's no free will, but there is free won't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that because I've never thought of it
that way. But you're right because everybody, not everybody, but
people will tell you tap into the higher consciousness. There
are people who say the human brain is incapable of
whatever kind of thoughts. Don't get mad at yourself or
feeling this way, but try to tap in to the
higher self, the higher conscious software.
Speaker 3: Right where the heart where the higher consciousness.
Speaker 2: Yes, and those are where inspiration comes from. That's where
all these great ideas are. And I mean you need to, yeah,
you need to be the follow through for that stuff.
And it's it's a different I think you say that
to enough people on the street, though, think'll have you
locked up again right away, real fast, going. That guy's
gonna be almost in a week, you know. And it
bothers me because I think, boy, I think we've been
taught wrong. I think meaning well, but I think taught
wrong yea.
Speaker 3: And I mean the end we've we're always doing our best, right, yes,
you know you know how many meaning a couple hundred
years ago, we were drilling holes in people's heads to
let the demons. I know, I just saw an article
about that was the thing to do, and we were
doing our best at the time. We were trying to
help people right. But now, like I and I believe
fifty years from now, we're going to look at the
medicine that we're using now the same way we looked
at drill and holes in people's heads to let the
demons up.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it is it is interesting today. Also, I
really feel like this may be the biggest impact on
mental health today. Is our hyper connectivity? Yeah, I mean
we are hyper connective in the world. And what do
you see as the most underestimated psychological challenge people face?
And is there a way to build resilience against it?
Speaker 3: As it pertains to well, I would.
Speaker 2: Say the hyper connected digital world. The hyper connected digital
world meaning everything from FaceTime to whatever. I mean, I
can see, I can see anything I want to see
in my hand right now. And I'm not sure that
that is a good thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like anything, right, Like, there's probably there's two
sides to that coin. I don't know. I don't think
I think of any one tries to tell you they
know what the you know, the harmful effects of are
being so connected to technology are? I think that I
don't think anybody knows. I think from my perspective, anything
that pulls you from nature is concerning, right, And so
if there's and that doesn't mean that being connected to
technology precludes you from being connected to nature, right. There
is clear evidence. And there's a guy named Richard lou
who wrote a book called The Last Child in the Woods,
really good book that reviews all the literature that looks
at the relationship between nature and development. And there's clearly
evidence to suggest that, you know, kids who don't have
as much exposure to nature don't develop in the same
way as kids who do, and oftentimes end up with
issues around focus and anxiety and depression. And things like that.
There's actually a movement right now in Australia to create
a new diagnosis called nature deficit disorder, which would be
used as an alternative to attention deficit disorder for kids
who we we think their their issues with focus could
be attributed to to you know, lack of exposure to nature.
And so for me, I'm concerned about that. I'm concerned about, uh,
not being as connected to our natural world as we
need to be because we're we are, like we started
this whole podcast, right, We're it's not just that we're connected.
We're connected to everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, there's quantum and that's you know, from a non
woo woo, more scientific perspective, right, you know, there's you know,
some cool quantum stuff going on around us, right, and
we know from research that you know, our quantum connection
to things like trees and nature is important. Uh, And
so that's what worries me about, you know, our connection
to technology is that it pulls us away from some
of those things that are just inherently you know, healthy
and important for us, especially during.
Speaker 2: Development zert development excuse me and things. Do you see
the hyperconnectivity, but maybe constant exposure to I don't know,
the grass is greener over here. I want this. I
wish it could have affecting self esteem.
Speaker 3: Dopamine, right, yeah, dopamine hits. Right, there's that, It's it's
every time, and so I sure, I'm sure that there's
some of that. Right, there's the I'm sure I look
a lot, you know, happier and more successful on my
social media profile than I really am. Right, and then
when you see that, you know, constantly all day long
and your friends and other people, then you know, I'm
sure it has the tendency to make you feel not
great about yourself. Again, that's not my main concern. Yeah,
but I do think that, you know, you do get
these dopamine hits from getting likes and stuff like that.
And there's more, there's research that says that there's a
problem that that's problematic as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I always think that if you can help someone
get their self worth from within than without that, Boy,
that's hard in this world.
Speaker 3: Maybe the most important thing about you know, that's.
Speaker 2: That's that's things like you writing the book and then hey,
now I feel like I could write another book. That
to me is the real self esteem stuff. But then
I read research that says self compassion is more important
than self esteem. Uh well, so let me say, let
me maybe I should say change the words over They
would put self compassion over self esteem in terms of
the overall mental health balance. Yeah, so that I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know either. What I like about the idea
of self compassion is you're allowing for mistakes, You're allowing
for uh imperfection, right, and you're you're you're giving yourself.
Speaker 2: More in a world that rewards perfection, right, right.
Speaker 3: So the the self compassions you know, addressing right, Whereas
you know, self esteem I suppose could get away from
you and it could become at some level narcissisms. So
I like that element of self compassion, but I think
that they're two different things. And I think that self
esteem and kids is important, you know. And that's my
criteria for when I have a parent who comes to
me with a kid who's doctor wants to prescribe them
a stimulant. Right, my criteria is as to whether or
not they shouldn't they should go with it and take
the medicine. Is how's the kid self esteem?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: If the kid it feels like they're falling behind, and
everybody's looking at them and they feel bad about themselves
because they know they could do better, but they're just
trying their best and they're not and it's really hitting
their self esteem. Then give them the stimulant. It's going
to help. And you know the problems that can happen
from having a damaged self esteem, you know, during development
far out out weigh the risks of the stimulant. Right.
If the kid's fine, if they don't really notice that
other people are are, you know, performing better than them,
they still got to good self esteem. They seem content, right,
then hold off. You can always catch up on the
academic stuff. But you know, stimulant is gonna stunt your growth,
right and so uh, you know, I'd rather have the kid,
you know, grow appropriately and then I will catch up
on the academic stuff as long as their self esteems Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting because the self esteem is so important,
and yet I feel like so fragile sometimes with young
young people, I mean even people people. I'll put it
to just people. Adults too.
Speaker 3: I would have been awful with if we had the
social media and all the stuff. I would have been
so fragile. Are you kidding me, like I would have
been a mess.
Speaker 2: Uh, I would have been I would be right, and
so we I'm just thinking of this poor girl who
we superposed your face over a cow O shop, not
even photoshops and tigraphy class, and then I and then
somebody hung it in the office window and changed your
name to cow Yeah, it was horrible that a person
would probably be sitting across from you, and I just go,
this stuff is terrible. I wouldn't want that done to
my kids. I wouldn't want that. It happens all the time,
so fast, so fast, we can't even we don't even
know it's it's it's almost impossible for parents to know.
Speaker 3: It's processed information, right, Like we don't want our kids
to have processed food. This is processed information. Man, that's
a great the same same ideas.
Speaker 2: It's uh, well, you wonder why they're in a bad mood.
You wonder why something would happen, and you don't know.
But sometimes we as adults look at something online. It's
not affecting us, not in our house. It's not here
right now, it's not coming through our front door. And
he had a boy. It just makes us our whole
demeanor changes, mood changes, and we're not pleasant to be around,
and no one knows why. And everybody's sort of walking
on eggshells. And that's the stuff that I think is
is bad. And if you can, you know, you hear
the detox from the phone. I don't know. New York
State just implemented the no Touch law, where you were
not allowed to touch your phone while behind the wheel,
even at a stop sign. I know many people don't.
Speaker 3: I have the best excuse. I have Type one diabetes.
You can't and my phone controls my pancreas and so
and uh, you know I could get out of it.
Speaker 2: I think you could. And any if you're calling nine one,
one year, okay, But.
Speaker 3: It's it's a good trick at concerts too. I've shown
my Uh, I never get I'm cheap, so I get
lawn seats at CMAC, but everyone's in.
Speaker 2: A while, they're just everything so expensive. Oh my god.
Speaker 3: So I think it was the Chris Stapleton concert or
something like that. We wanted to go into the shell
just for a little bit. I think it might have
been raining and we wanted to get a closer look,
and uh, and security came up came up and I
just quickly said, my sugar is really low. I just
can't move, and they said, oh, no problem, sir, stay
here as long as yeah. Yeah, so yeah, that's every
once in a while. You got to use it when.
Speaker 2: It's awful every other way, why not use it to
your advantage. We'll take a moment. I'd love to hear
some of these quotes that AI interpreted and a little
bit about uh, your last visit with deep sounds good,
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i HAVE not? I have yeah?
Speaker 4: Is?
Speaker 2: GREAT yeah i bet do you go? A Lot.
Speaker 3: As i've, Gotten older i've really grown to appreciate live
music more. And MORE but i WOULDN'T say i go.
A lot i. Get out, you know probably three or
four concerts, a season some.
Speaker 2: Pretty, good yeah that's. Pretty good and nowadays that's. An
investment it is. The, cow yeah what HAPPENED to i
remember Like the stones paying damn near a hundred. YEARS
ago I mean i'm talking like. Early nineties i'm thinking that.
Was outrageous it's.
Speaker 3: That Live aid ticketmaster deal they got. Going that it's
everything ends up. Being aftermarket you've tried to go on
and buy, the tickets they've got bots buying all the
all the tickets up before you can. Buy them i've
actually learned that if someone's Playing, in canada go. Up
there it's going to be half.
Speaker 2: The.
Speaker 3: Price really, oh yeah we did that, last year Went,
to ocega which Is in Montreal. And sowerful, it's Great
soa noakan there and it was it was paid like
one hundred bucks for Tickets. For noakhan there were four hundred.
Everywhere else oh. My.
Speaker 2: Gosh. Wow yeah and a lot of. TIMES too i
will tell, people THAT and i don't know what it
does to the, ticket price but day of they'll release
the friends and family usually because they always. Hold back
and THAT'S how i got great seats to hauling, oats
right because somebody knew.
Speaker 3: The drummer sometimes if you're willing to take, the risk
That's my THAT'S what i do For the. Bills games,
BILLS games i Don't even we go and. We plant
we figure we might not get into, the game but
we'll have, fun tailgating and so we go plan, our
tailgate we go do our, tailgate thing and then right
as the, game starting we look to see if we
can get something to. Get tickets and it's every time.
Speaker 2: It's worked.
Speaker 3: You know one time we were two, years ago maybe
maybe three, years ago we did that and we ended
up getting box SEATS.
Speaker 2: WITH. O.
Speaker 3: J simpson, what, yeah yeah like we were in.
Speaker 2: A yeah i got. A picture, oh yeah this is.
The greatest.
Speaker 3: It's, crazy, yes yeah. It was so we were, in
separate like we're in the same kind of, box area
but he had a, different Door and i'm pretty sure at,
some point LIKE because i saw HIM and i saw what,
was HAPPENING and i just started laughing uncontrollably because it
was just one of those kind, of, nervous weird oh,
MY god i can't believe this is happening. Type things
and he looked, at me, you know as if, you
know what's this guy laughing at? Me for and he closed,
the door AND so i in my in, MY fantasies
i think that like that night he was going to
bed thinking why was that?
Speaker 2: Guy laughing did you get any picture?
Speaker 3: OR anything i got a picture of him with other
people getting. A picture. I didn't it. FELT icky i
am so with.
Speaker 2: You, On THAT but i find. THE whole i find
human beings just.
Speaker 3: So much people are so wanting to get selfies. With,
them yeah they were smiling and so happy.
Speaker 2: To get INTERESTING, because oj for a lot of the
people that were, taking pictures they never saw him carry.
A football i will be honest. With you my dad
was not a. FOOTBALL fan i became a foot at a.
Young AGE but i was at an AGE where oj
was on the Cover Of sports illustrated as a forty.
NINE er i didn't know he played For The, buffalo
BILLS and.
Speaker 3: I told him as that actor and the. Naked, GUN
yeah i had.
Speaker 2: No idea, and then of course we know what happened
In ninety it was, ninety three, ninety four, ninety, four,
yeah yes, ninety four and then the trial was ninety
five and and just all, of, that right and since
then we've seen all. This stuff and then. He DIED
but i would love to Go on twitter and Hear.
HIS twitter i couldn't Follow him i'd try To. Find,
twitter Yeah hate. TWITTER world i found, him, interesting, intelligent
likable all the things that made him what. HE was,
i mean, come on but yet this dark side to,
this GUY and i always wanted, to know like what
is in? That head and maybe you can even answer
this to some degree without being. The person but how
do you? Walk around i'm not saying he. Did it
i'm saying everybody thinks he. Did it how do you?
Walk around how do you show your face? In public
how are you? This thing and then there is this
weird Thing in america where we come around full circle.
With people we, want you we love when you're, on
top and then we want to knock you off and
then we'll bring you. Back AGAIN and i was just
saying to, the guys because we taped to an, EPISODE
earlier I Go tom cruise is an example. OF that
a few, years ago he's Jumping on oprah's couch and
we're calling him, awful guy and he's yelling about postpartum
depression and the depression Meds That brooks shields, is on
and he's Arguing With matt lauer and we know what Happened,
to matt and we see all this stuff and now
like he was kind of, You Know, tom cruise he's crazy.
As scientologists. He's this now, we're, going hey you saved
the movie industry, DURING right, i mean do? We not
you saved the move into INDUSTRY During covid, and oh by,
the way hell of a stunt man could have been
a great. Stunt man matter, Of fact i'm. PRETTY sure
i keep Reading as i'm very excited for this RIDICULOUS
movie f one. Coming out but it's the same people
who produced The second, maverick Movie The top, Gun movie and, they,
said yeah we Didn't.
Speaker 3: WANT tom i heard that thought he'd. Kill, himself, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Because he would take it. Too FAR and i, go
you but again somewhat of us. FULL, CIRCLE oj i
felt like went from hero to zero and almost almost
back in. Some way we certainly got on the plus
side of that because every time he Came, to BUFFALO
and I thought, i COULDN'T but i would certainly WATCH
because i want, to say what? Is that and nothing
else was? EVER like oj did nothing? Else, Bad right
he stole his own stuff back and they punished him for.
Speaker 3: The, murders yeah probably think there was probably some domestic.
VIOLENCE stuff, i.
Speaker 2: Think oh, there was but prior, to, that yes but
we didn't know.
Speaker 3: About it we didn't know, about it. ALL RIGHT i
i don't know how you would walk around, having that,
YOU know i tend to think that he.
Speaker 2: Did it, you know my.
Speaker 3: ME too i thought your question was going to be
around how can you like walk around as how can
you on one hand do that something like that and
then on the other hand like be this, you know
larger in the life person Go on twitter and all
it you and, You know that's my answer to that
IS there's i think we we, assume that, you know
mental illness and violence are, are correlated and. They're not,
you know people who are mentally ill are far more
likely to be victimized than. The, sure, yeah then and
so there's only two diagnoses that have any correlation or relationship,
to violence and that's a particular type of schizophrenia uh
and a particular type of post traumatic. Stress disorder outside,
of that it's far less likely that you would be
violent if you have a. Mental illness and and so
there's lots of reasons that cause violence and those types
of things.
Speaker 2: To happen and what is.
Speaker 3: A sociopath a sociopath. Would be it's it's a kind
of more in the personality. Disorders, Category right if you've
heard of antisocial, personality disorder, you know some people assume that, that,
means oh that person's. Not social they don't they won't
hang out, with you they don't look you in. The
eye that's actually. The, opposite usually someone who has antisocial
personality disorder is some time to be some of the
most charming people that you're ever going, to meet like
a PERSON like oj right and have absolutely no regard for,
you know rules or norms or in many cases, you
know your feelings or.
Speaker 2: Your well BEING that i. DON'T know. I thought i've
read in the past that CEOs of companies have some of,
those traits not that they, are sociopaths but they have that,
COLD blooded i don't want, to say cold mind ability
to fire somebody make make, hard decisions make hard decisions
that will affect people's lives for the betterment of, the
company or we like to think that, or WHATEVER but. I,
DON'T yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Mean i think there's some research that says that people
get to a high level oftentimes have some. Narcissistic qualities
but that's different than being. A sociopath, I yeah. I am.
Speaker 2: It's a. Tough one it's a. Tough, one yeah it's
just the oj THING is i. FOUND it i find
it fascinating just watching people and how they interact with something,
like that someone, like that someone who was accused. Of
that And again, I'LL say i think he. Did it
we never got a definitive answer in the court of
law other than we didn't fit a. Civil trial but,
even there at, that point you're kind, of going he
ain't paying the, money anyway so he's not going. To
jail so what's the real consequence? Of THIS and, i,
go boy how do you HOW do i feel? About this,
in word what's my reaction? To IT and, I go
i am fascinated by people and how they react. To
that i'm fascinated by people and how they react to.
Famous people. It's amazing it's.
Speaker 3: Fascinated by how people function. ON it, I mean I
sometimes i SOME days i feel, really stupid but, IN
general i Feel like i'm a relatively intelligent person and life, is, hard,
Yes right SO and i look AROUND and i see
like all the people who are somehow Managing and, I'M
like i, don't know how is everybody. Doing this but, that.
Speaker 2: Okay so back to like what we talked about earlier
and some of the doctor deep things that you have
certainly experienced MORE than. I have but the idea that it's,
already done just relax the sayings that we've heard all,
our lives like Going, like god like going, like it but.
We can't what? Is that why do we have to
feel like we need to be in control of everything
where instead of go with. The flow, you know it's
so much harder to just upstream than it is to
just go with.
Speaker 3: The, FLOW yeah, I don't i, don't know BUT this
i think the self has to do with. It, Again
yeah like we we have this connection to the self
when we're in this body and, you know living, this
life and that's gotta it's it helps, keep us, you
know on on track when we're in. This life maybe
if we were going with a flow all, the time
right then then there would be that you Know that
i'm assuming that the self exists for, a, reason, right
yes and that you know we these mechanisms within us
exist for, a reason? Right right, but, UH yeah i
also agree that it seems like at everything when you
look at it from a quantum perspective or all the
stuff that we're. Learning about, you know it kind of.
Doesn't matter everything's already. Been done it's almost like people
talk about, simulation THEORY which i don't necessarily, ascribe TO
but i do like the idea of simulation theory from a, therapeutic, perspective, right,
because uh the idea is that we chose, this, life
right We chose it's it's not that this is it's
not that we're a player in someone. Else's game we're
still a player in our. Own game we chose. This life,
you know people who talk about, simulation theory including quantum
physicists and people, like that, will say you know that
we our soul at, some level chose to play, this
life and every difficult thing that happens in our life
is has, already happened but it's intended to be part of,
that game and it's intended to be something that teaches. A,
Lesson right and so even if that's a, ridiculous theory
thinking about things from that perspective sometimes can, be, helpful
right because, ask YOURSELVES if i really did, choose this
if this is, a simulation then what is this Thing
that i'm dealing with, right now what is it trying to?
Speaker 2: Teach?
Speaker 3: Me right WHY did i choose to have? That experience
and WHAT did I think i needed? To learn and
IT'S it's i think about just a better way to.
Speaker 2: Live RIGHT and i think it also keeps you from,
blaming others which is very easy to do and never solves. Your,
Problem right if it's not, your fault whose fault? Is
It and i'm not saying that we Need to maybe
maybe there's a softer word, than fault but that's the
one we've all been conditioned. To SAY and i think
sometimes when there are problems, that arise to look inside, and,
go okay, you know sit and. Be still that's the
THING is i was going to say, earlier TOO is
i think a lot of the answers we know they're.
From inside we know whether it's the higher consciousness that's
coming through whatever. It is we kind of know what
we choose. To, do again it's not, free will but
free won't is than. THE thing i. Love that BUT
when i think about, THESE things i, Often, Think okay
so in, any moment you have a number, of choices
it's easy, to say choose the one that's gonna feel,
the best do it to its fullest without any worry
about the outcome of, it all and it'll all. Work
out and we've probably had experiences that we can all
look back on, and, go yeah. THAT'S true i did,
that THERE but i didn't do it, over HERE and
i didn't, over here and YOU know i didn't. Over
here it is because you were a PRICK and i couldn't,
get it you KNOW what. I mean and we start
pointing fingers and, blaming THINGS and, i, think ah that's.
The thing it is all. Your fault but faults an.
Ugly word it doesn't certainly isn't one. Of compassion and
so that's, where, like well you guys got a lot
of work you gotta do over there talking to People
because i'm. Unbraveling this, i'm, thinking boy that's a lot
to say. To someone is it's? Your fault but. It's
not and we can massage this thing and there really
is no meaning to any of it other than the
meaning you apply. To it so what are you, Gonna
say i'm a bad person, for THIS or i just
made SOMETHING that i thought was the right decision And
now i'm gonna pivot for here because that didn't work the.
Speaker 3: RIGHT way i. Don't know have you Read The? FOUR
agreements i have.
Speaker 2: NOT read i am certainly familiar With The, four agreements, but.
Speaker 3: Yes that's kind of as you'm listening to you talk
about it being everything being, our phone you know that
that's for, whatever reason that's What's those that's what's resonating.
With me is this idea that it's, everything happens we
have a role, in everything and without getting, to again
maybe instead, of fault it's your frequency rights that frequency
that you're on. That day but ultimately we're all still
living in our own little drops, of water our own, little,
Bubbles right and so the four agreements are be impeccable with,
your word which basically, means like, you know, don't gossip
don't focus you know when, you're talking don't make, you
know make it a point, to that, you know always
be trashing other people as part of what you're putting.
Speaker 2: Out there so much fun, TO do.
Speaker 3: I know it's that's the, tough part right, it is
that's the. Tough part sometimes sometimes it feels like they.
Speaker 2: Deserve it.
Speaker 3: Don't make, any, assumptions right because, you know assumptions are. Just,
Killers right and that's part of getting back to like
social media and our connection. To technology it's you know,
the INTENT and i think we tend to make a
lot of assumptions when we're seeing something on social media without, the, context,
right right don't take, anything, personally, yeah right these are
easy things to say about. Other things to do right
and always do your, best right which which is doesn't
mean that you're always going to be at. Your best
it means you're going to do your best on. That
day if you're sick of, that day then your best
isn't going to be as good as the day before
when you weren't feeling when you were, Feeling better but
you're doing your best on, that, Day right and so
if you're doing all four of, those things then that
idea of everything is, YOUR fault i think. Becomes less
it feels like like you're getting boxed in a little,
bit less right, because, now yeah everything is under, your
control including the way that you, interpret things including the
way that you decide, to uh, you know to, name
things or you know how much you allow things to get, at,
You right and, So yeah i've heard you say. That
before everything's everything's YOUR following i don't.
Speaker 2: Disagree, with IT and i, think, that yes but the
word is a. Harsh one it's a harsh one to
to kind, Of, swallow well what do, you mean it's.
MY fault i didn't.
Speaker 3: Do that.
Speaker 2: But you have a plane in that you brought it
in in. Some way you attracted that in some way
our BRAINS are i think an antenna attracted.
Speaker 3: That in and sometimes it goes the, opposite, Way right
sometimes you're, so, high right you're on such a high
or your frequency is, so high and you're feeling so great.
About something i've had to watch myself with this lately
because of the good news with my daughter and the
puppy and that kind. Of stuff zone, noticing Well but
i'm noticing myself feeling, really, Good right and, you know
people who are aren't feeling, really good, you know they
find people who are feeling good and they try to bring, them.
Down right and, you know there's people that will say
that you don't need to actually even be with the
person who's, you know not in a good place or
in a more vulnerable place to be impacted by their, negative,
energy right.
Speaker 2: You know AND so.
Speaker 3: I think that there's also this kind of art to
not letting yourself get too. High, Either RIGHT it's i
imagine kind of life is on, a circle right and
and UH and i most people are just riding it like,
a ride and, you know they're happy up here and things,
are great and then they're kind of man and then
they're down here and things are and things aren't, very
good and you're just feeling it in, the. Moment right
but if you kind of take a step back and
realize that it's just always going in, this, circle right
then then you can, name. It right you can you can, Be,
Like Okay i'm i'm feeling really good, right NOW but
i know this isn't, gonna Last so i'll soak. It
Up but, I'll said DEEP say I wanted.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: One of, Our breakfasts, deep said what's ONE thing i
can say that will make you happy when you're sad
or sad when? You're happy.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm what's ONE thing i was there? FOR that?
I think? Were? You that is that? Your?
Speaker 3: House yeah that Was a i'm not sure if you were.
Speaker 2: There for.
Speaker 3: So we, all, guessed right we All took we all guessed,
you know things that might answer. That question we were.
ALL wrong i mean the answer is this tool, will, Pass,
Right yeah because if you, remember that, You know i'm
feeling good, right now this is going, to pass then
that's going to bum. You out and if you, remember
that you know this tool pass when you're not, feeling
great then you know you can get past it and
you can see, past, It right AND so i think
it's seeing the, whole, picture right it's looking at that,
whole ride that, whole circle and being able to recognize
where you're at, on that appreciate where you're at on
that name where you're at on.
Speaker 2: That, right, sure. YEAH great i remember coaches often saying
you're not as good as you think, you are and
you're not as bad as you think.
Speaker 3: You are and that what you said your son when
he was driving the four wheeler into.
Speaker 2: The tree.
Speaker 3: You're not as good as you think.
Speaker 2: You are we we hadn't even gone. There yet ROB
and i sat THERE and i had. Been fishtailing NOT
that i am as GOOD as I think, i AM
but i was holding it TOGETHER and i was. Having
fun so if you, punch it but it's all about
it's not about the break in. Those situations it's strictly about.
The accelerator so take your foot off of it and
let it ride and just ride. That wave that's all.
It is and it's a great you're. Saying this, i'm
going oh, my god it is because the break, is
resistance and resistance knocks. You over you know we. Need
resistance we don't. Need resistance we need contrast in life
to show us what we do want and what we,
don't want and what we do want and we. Don't
want but we don't need to slam on the brakes
on things because then. We crash and that's Exactly what.
Jordan did we're DRIVING and i probably had a couple
of drinks and said, to him you, take over and
he's doing IT and, i go and then all of
A sudden i could. Feel it i'm.
Speaker 3: JUST one i just.
Speaker 2: FELT that, i, go buddy you're not as good as
you think. You are, slow down take your foot off,
the accelerator but you're screaming over. A motor and then
the NEXT thing, i know he does, it again AND
all i heard myself was saying he was. Oh shit
and then over we went and landed back on all.
Four wheels but you know the damage. Was done it was.
All dented it's cracked.
Speaker 3: And you knew we have that intuition before it's. Gonna
happen what is? THAT like i could see.
Speaker 2: IT coming i just was LIKE and I AND i
i tried really hard not to be that Dad that
i'll call it the dick dad for lack of, bigger
vocabulary but just the dick dad that's. Gonna go, come
on don't do it. That way i'm not here to.
SHOW you i want you to skin. YOUR knee i
want you to flip, the vehicle just not The one. I'm,
in yep you KNOW what. I mean That's all i'm.
Asking it don't do it The one, i'm IN and
i want to show you how to do. It without.
You know BUT when i say, slow down it's like an.
Electric car just take your foot off. The accelerator let's
not even call a, gas pedal and we'll just try to,
slow down try to downshift a. Little bit we don't
need to jam the brakes because that makes. Everything.
Speaker 3: Bad, yep yeah but bas he just had. LAST year
i brought you To The, oh god that was so.
Much fun the mud, truck, party right which for, people
listening this is like a legit mud, Truck party like
the people have never seen anything. Like this it's, you
know dozens of these giant. Monster trucks and this guy's
got this huge property with a, you know basically a
pond in it that they're. Driving through AND so i
went about a month ago to the most recent iteration
of this mud, truck PARTY and i was with my
friend who invited, me there and he has his big,
mud truck and we were driving around and going through the.
Mud puddle we went through maybe, three times and then
before he goes through the, Fourth time, i'm like this
doesn't like he's. Getting cocky this isn't going. WELL this
I really i just had this feeling like we really
shouldn't go through this. Fourth time it's not a.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 3: Idea uh and it was, that intuition and he went
into the mud puddle and all of, a sudden you just,
hear it like felt like everything in the engine like
broke at the, same time and it. Just stopped and, you,
KNOW fortunately i. FELT bad i thought that he was
going to be out a bunch. Of MONEY and i
turned to him and he just looks at me, and,
goes well that's, mud trucking.
Speaker 2: That is it is part of. THE sport i suppose,
what happened, you know did like something with the engine
had taken too. Much water it was THAT the i
don't know.
Speaker 3: A lot i'm Not a i'm not, a gearhead but,
you know there was, YOU know i think they, you
know the axle. Like broke, there was and we ended
up getting towed out by another mud truck and we were.
In there we were in the puddle for a while
and pretty and another guy installed next, to us and
we're yelling back and forth at each other in the.
Mud puplers it was. Pretty funny why.
Speaker 2: Don't we take one last break and then we'll do,
the QUOTES because i do want to. Hear these the
quotes are from.
Speaker 3: So these are from the INTERVIEWS that i did with
gold experts soon After meeting deep and so a, genetic
EXCTION and i.
Speaker 2: Want to hear a little bit about The doctor deep, visit,
too SURE because i think there's more happening in that
world than where it's.
Speaker 3: Always going EVERY time i have a chance to connect,
with them there's something cool and. Magical happening we will
get to that right.
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i love this SONG because i think it just speaks
to everything that we. TALK about i almost FEEL like
i can give you a great theme for a. Wise
counsel reach out and.
Speaker 1: Grab it.
Speaker 2: If you, want it.
Speaker 1: You can.
Speaker 2: Have it all you've got to do is just reach
right out and. Grab it step into.
Speaker 5: Your power that's one of those THINGS that i think
that we often put ourselves in, the role for lack
of a better term of, the victim like, YOU know
i can't because and THAT'S where i, always go, the arguing,
foreign limitations no self.
Speaker 3: Fulfilling, prophecy yeah get out there and.
Speaker 2: Do it just.
Speaker 3: JUMP jump i remember the FIRST time, i REALIZED like
i realized. THAT idea i was working as a applied
behavioral science as SPECIALIST At CDs monarch because one of
my first jobs out of my, master's program and so
my job was to write behavior plans for people with
disabilities living in different. GROUP homes i had eighteen group
homes on my CASELOAD and i was in charge of
the behavior plans for all. Of THEM and i have
to do a, functional assessment right, the plan go in train.
The staff and we had this one house on massive
in road that it was all adults with at the time. Autistic.
Disorder uh and uh everything was like, locked up, you
know plexiglass on all, the windows all of the TVs were,
you know bolted to.
Speaker 6: The.
Speaker 3: Floor uh and it was, you know there were d
grade there was the doors, were locked but there were
like delayed egress locks on. The DOOR and i went
in and everyone told me like watch out for. This place,
you know. It's dangerous you gotta be really careful when.
You're THERE and i remember going in and just, feeling like,
oh my as SOON as i, WALKED in i, FELT like,
I like i'm not comfortable, in, here right it's just
there's not because, the people but because everything was locked
up and you could tell you, walked in everyone expected
the worst of whoever was, in. There, Right yeah AND, so,
i uh, you know at, THE time, i was, you know,
my TWENTIES and i didn't know, any better AND SO i,
i said it's got to be a way to do.
This better and so we pulled together a big committee
and we ended up creating a plan that allowed us
to pull back on all those restrictions and unlock the
doors and get the plexiglass all the windows and all,
those things and everyone's all of the people who lived
there started, behaving, Better right and so we saw them
really live up to.
Speaker 2: Our.
Speaker 3: Expectations right and that was the first TIME that i
really realized that people just have to just go out
and do. It right like it was one of those
things where, you know it's people get things done because they.
Speaker 2: Do. Them yeah you brought up to the idea of
the of the four minute, mile, earlier right and want
a banister. Does IT and i think it was like two,
weeks later three or four got it. Done it but
it was a. Mental BLOCK and i often wonder in
that situation that you're saying is we're, so bad we need,
this stuff so we're going to be bad, because hey
and then when the, expectations raised we're all running at
a better pace and a.
Speaker 3: Kinder page there's also this have you ever heard of? Morphic?
Resonance no, All right so there's this concept called. Morphic
resonance they've done a bunch of rat studies and they
would what they do is they take rats from the
same family and they would put half of Them in
california and they would teach them how to run through,
a maze and they would have half of them On
The east coast and they would just they would have
them run through. The maze and they they found that
when they if the Rats in california who were part
of the same family learned how to run, the maze
that the rats In The east coast would run the
maze more quickly after the Rats in california learned, How
right and so the theory is that there is this
especially for people who are connected in some way that
this kind of, mutual, learning right like if we if,
you know one part of the unit learns something that
there's something that impacts the other part of the unit
so that they're become better at it or they become
more Able to.
Speaker 2: And this is mice that were. Genetically. Connected, yep yeah
it's called different coasts.
Speaker 3: Called Morphic resident it's if you look a research and
rat learning and, more resonance it's.
Speaker 2: Right there so almost like they telepathically in some way
connected on who was doing what. Or understanding doesn't it
seem to?
Speaker 3: You good that's. One, argument Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because i'm, you know the telepathy tapes. ARE interesting i
know you sent me. Another Episode i'm i'm a, little
BEHIND but i. HAVE enjoyed I think i've listened to
seven episodes. OF that i find, it fascinating. Super cool
it is really find.
Speaker 3: It fascinating it's TOUGH because i work with a lot
of parents of people, with autism and and, you know
there's some, concern that, you know this type of thing
is giving people false hope and stuff, like that And
so i'm really cautious ABOUT who i talk to about
it AND how. I present but. It's fascinating.
Speaker 2: IT'S fascinating i almost feel like there's some truth. TO
that i did a. WEIRD experience i had two nonverbal
young MEN when i, was subbing and the one each
one of them had one to, one aides and the
one guy's aide went to lunch and so he plopped
them down in a chair and he was sort of
sitting near me and we just. Started TAPPING so i,
WAS like i know you can, Hear ME so i,
start tapping and then he'd taking my hand and he's
tapping and we're. Doing it and then another boy who,
doesn't speak he. Comes over now we're on on this giant,
bean bag and that kid's laying next to me and
puts his head in my lap and is like taking
my hand to hit his ribs to keep, the Rhythm and, i'm,
like boy there was SOMETHING that i was trying, To, say,
HEY hey i know you're. IN there i know you're,
in THERE and i can't, nothing right, NO experience i can't.
Say anything but it was after hearing some of the
telepathy TAPES and, i went this, is amazing and we're.
Speaker 3: Underestimating, things yeah WELL we, i mean would be ignorant
to say to think that. We do don't you know
that we, understand? EVERYTHING right i think it's fair to
say that we are consciously aware of maybe one percent
of what's happening, Right right and so if that's, the case,
then yeah there's lots of stuff that we don't understand
and we need to keep an. Open mind the tricky
part again is where, you know sometimes we try to
create words to describe, these things and we can kind
of take it go off on our own narrative and agenda,
with them and then that's when it becomes hard to
accept or believe because we kind of get in, the.
Speaker 2: Way right exactly exactly what are the these these are
quotes from, so yeah we don't have to go THROUGH
many i would like to hear some.
Speaker 3: Of the so this IS after i started working With. Doctor,
deep yes he somehow identified me to do these interviews
with these. Global experts it's hard to explain the, whole
CONTEXT but i had an opportunity to meet with over
twenty just, brilliant people some of Them no, bell laureates
you know people who, you know Professors at Harvard and
cambridge AND. U c L a uh and in the
new Book that, I'M writing i transcribed the INTERVIEWS that
i did, with THEM and i AM actually ai wasn't
involved in the quotes that we're going to look, at
now but for some, of them they were, you know
folks who didn't speak Very, good english AND so i
ran THEM through ai and it cleaned it up and
it made it easier to understand and. Pretty amazing and
So what i'm trying, to do what we're trying to
do With This Complimentary treatment methods Class at fisher is
start to open the eyes of mental health counselors and
other professionals to some of these concepts and think about
how they can integrate them into their practice without becoming,
you know, woo woo or without being, you know without, losing.
Credibility right and so we're taking things like, you know
the telepathy tapes and reiki and all these different areas
where there's there's plenty of evidence to suggest that there's, something,
there right and we're trying to examine. It critically we're
trying to, Think, about okay what could, this mean what's
safe for us to bring to our clients and. Talk
about and so these INTERVIEWS that i did were kind
of along. Those lines and there were three interviews in
PARTICULAR that i isolated to. Focus on one Was With,
madame thengelovu who is a genetic researcher Out. Of cambridge
he's amazing guy who cuts up genes and studies what's inside.
Of them, and yeah he's really interested in the eighty
percent of genes that We don't actually it's higher. THAN
that i forgot the, exact percentage but there's a high
percentage OF each dna that we don't know what, it,
does right and we call IT. Junk, dna yeah we
don't know what. It does and he examined that's his
specialty is looking AT junk dna and trying to figure
out what. It does so he was one of the
GENTLEMEN that. I interviewed I Interviewed, moro zapatara who IS
a Phdmd from harvard now WORKS at ucla studying cerebral SPINAL.
Fluid UH and I Interviewed John, stuart reid who is an.
Acoustic PHYSICIST. He uh he did an amazing experiment where
he went Into the pyramids and ran sound through the
different through the carsophagus and when there was when he
ran certain frequencies through. The carsophagus hieroglyphs showed up in. The. Sand,
wow yeah he wrote a book. About it there, were
witnesses there's uh and AND so i got to speak
with all three of them because they all have their
own particular along with a number of. OTHER people, i
mean they all had their own particular interest and connection
to naddi and to energy and its potential uses and
healing and so so the goal was it's kind of.
Dense STUFF and i asked the students to watch. These
INTERVIEWS but i knew that coming into class and, saying
okay would you think of the interview wasn't going to go.
Very far they were gonna probably going to be pretty
quiet and not be able to to really. Talk much
AND so i pulled out some of the quotes from
those INTERVIEWS THAT i i thought were, especially cool and
we just passed them around and we just went around
in a circle and each student would read one of
the quotes and then on a scale of one, to
five they would say how much it resonated. With, them so,
you know one would be that it didn't really resonate
with me. At all five would be that resonated really
strong with me for, Whatever reason and then we would
talk about what are some potential applications to, your work
what are some potential applications to being a mental health
counselor that you could pull? From this and, SO yeah
i brought a few of those TODAY because i wasn't
sure where this conversation was going. To go and it's
fair and they are. Pretty cool, so yeah maybe maybe
pick like two of them, and okay we'll. Do that
maybe pick like two of them that, you like and
we'll do the same thing with YOU that i did with.
My students don't you.
Speaker 2: Want me to?
Speaker 3: Read it, so yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: And okay this perspective shifts how we view. The world
if we dwell on the idea, long enough it can
transform how we interpret life and. DECISION making i often
and ask people to reflect on a seemingly simple yet,
profound question why did you choose? Your Parents m?
Speaker 3: All, right, so uh scale a one? To five how
much did that resonate?
Speaker 2: With you why did you choose? Your? Parents Well probably
i'm going to my kneed drink, answers THREE but i
think it's actually higher.
Speaker 3: Than, that, okay, Yeah yeah and then we would again
have a conversation about potential applications to. Mental. Health right
this is that idea that, you know in, some, ways
chowse you signed, a contract the future informs, the, Present
right and and it also speaks to that idea, that
yes you signed a you made, this decision you signed. A,
CONTRACT yeah i mean so this is the person who
said That Was, madame thanglovu the. Genetic scientist, Really ye
and that quote, comes from, you know his own interpretation
of a lot of really cool genetic research that, he's,
done right and he, YOU know i will not do,
a justice but, you know based on cutting apart genes
and looking at jeans in, you know kids, and parents,
you know he's able to make a reasonable argument that,
you know the kids probably chose their parents at some
point in order for the genes to parse out.
Speaker 2: Like that, really yeah yeah sometimes, YOU yeah i mean
you ever see like there's a kid that does an
amazing something and becomes somebody where the parents were not
even close, to that and it is something. Like that,
all right let's see. One more we'll do, one. More
okay the concept of, the observer, the observed and the
process of observation a trinity forms an essential Foundation in. Indian,
philosophy okay the perspectives lead to the realization that the
observer and the observed are, not separate but part of the,
same unit the observer and. The, observe okay, If intelligent if,
intelligent operates if intelligence operates within this, unified framework then
all intelligence is finite yet capable of integrating with deeper
realms beyond. Conventional understanding that, one's yeah that. ONE'S deep
i don't want. To say that was like a sixth
for me because it was the last sentence that intelligence,
is finite there's there there's an end, to, it yep
or there's an amount, to it yet capable of integrating
with deeper realms beyond, conventional, Understanding, right so which almost
makes it sound like it wouldn't be finite in a certain,
you know going with, VERSE depth i, don't know, but yeah.
Speaker 3: That's interesting it also speaks to that idea that we
were just. Talking about it's ironic that you chose, that,
one right this idea that everything's kind of, our, fault,
Yeah right and this is that kind of idea that,
you know we, you know that nothing happens without not
just our engagement, in it but our observation of it
and our, you know making meaning.
Speaker 2: Of.
Speaker 3: It right, you know there's research that says that there's
certain things like if you look at in, an, atom
right there's certain uh forget if it's the protons or
the electrons that will only appear if we're looking at,
them right if we're observing, them right, All right and
so that quote speaks to some extent to that process,
of uh, you know nothing really is without us making meaning. Of,
It yes and that's something you say all.
Speaker 2: The time why there's no meaning to any of this
other than the meaning apply, to it which is basically the.
Same THING and i only say that because a lot
Of times i've seen, my kids myself get upset about
something that when you step away, From It oh, god
said really didn't. Mean anything WHY did i? Do THAT and,
i thought WHY did i give it? That? Meaning There
because i'm the only one given at? That meaning, you
know nobody else. Is wanted can a round with their?
Head down? That's IT can i do? One more do? You?
Speaker 3: Mind hey, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Go ahead when we explore deep aspects of physics, and
casualty we typically assume that the past determines. The present
that events unfold in a. Linear, sequence however there's an intriguing,
counter argument the future decides.
Speaker 3: The present so that was Also. Doctor thanglou so YOU
chose i think two of the three of THE.
Speaker 2: Ones i just told about random without.
Speaker 3: Really prereading but and that's that was maybe one of
my favorite quotes from all of the INTERVIEWS that, i
did and probably the one that influenced my life the
most in my way. Of thinking this idea, that again
and it's it's this simplifies that we're trying to put,
you know language. To it but this idea that on,
some level everything's, already happened, right yeah uh and, logically
right linear time kind of doesn't, make, Sense right like
if if the only way tom exists is the way we, experience,
it right then there has to be a beginning in,
an end right in The Big big bang isn't, an,
Excuse right that's a miracle in and, of itself and
there had to be something, before, That right and, so
uh this is that kind of idea that time energy
flows in, multiple, directions right and this is just happens
to be the, you know we happen to be living in.
Linear time but that. Time itself that is way more complicated, than,
That right it's it's it's, uh operating it's going in
every direction all, the time right and and at, some
level all of these things have. Already happened, so yeah
that's that was one of my favorite quotes from the
INTERVIEWS that, i yeah that's a.
Speaker 2: Great quote as, YOU'RE saying i often think of everything
is happening, right now all, of it all that's happening,
right now and all we have is a different perspective.
Speaker 1: On.
Speaker 3: Now, YEAH right i think that.
Speaker 2: That's MEMORY but I can't i can't seem to fully grasp.
THAT idea i don't.
Speaker 3: Think we're supposed to be. Able to and that's the
fun of. These groups we get to talk about it.
Speaker 2: AND try i. LOVE that i freaking love. THIS stuff
i don't, KNOW why i don't know what, it IS
but i. LOVE it i love the idea of, thinking
differently looking at, something differently and not the same thing all.
THE time i like IT because i think. IT does
i think as, a group it taps into a.
Speaker 3: HIGHER consciousness i like to think that we're, you know
creating our or our own. Morphic residence right when we
have these conversations that somehow it's even though we're, having
them that that it's it's, you know other people are
somehow benefiting, from it or learning, from it or maybe
thinking that we're crazy and making other decisions because. Of
it that's, All fine, BUT yeah i agree. With you
it doesn't feel like when we have these conversations that. They're,
meaningless no not.
Speaker 2: AT all i thoroughly enjoyed it and can't thank you
enough for allowing me to come and hang out with
those at those groups and be part of all. This stuff,
the uh your connection with doctor deep, gets deeper, you
know it. Really does and the book that you're, putting TOGETHER.
Speaker 3: Which i need help NAMING because i don't. Want to
i'm so worried it's gonna be the Because Remember deep
Thoughts With. Jack candy i'm trying to stay away from
anything that reminds people of. Deep thoughts but it's kind.
Speaker 2: Of funny it's different because it's it is literally. Deep.
Thoughts uh but he Was In New, york city he was.
Speaker 3: In yes, so uh, he said maybe three. Weeks ago
now it's a really. INTERESTING story i HAVE ben't i
haven't seen you since, this Happened so i'll share this
story on. The podcast is, That, okay yeah, that's FINE
that's i don't feel like you have to, you know it's.
It's okay i'm trying to think OF how i can
communicate it so that it. Comes across so about three
WEEKS ago i HAD gotten i gotten e mail from
a former student and it was just. Really upsetting there
was a student that, hated, ME right i know who
who could who? Could imagine and.
Speaker 2: So wait a former student that? Hated you.
Speaker 3: Former student it was five so it was she had
been this Person was i'm not GONNA get i can't
give much but this student but then reaches out to
you five years later and was just actually emailed me
and all my colleagues and uh just said title of
the email was a true story About. Rob rice and
she talked about three THINGS that i did or taught
that really upset her while she was in. The. Program
right one of them was this idea that we can
that are that we can heal ourselves even, you know
like digestive issues and back pain and a lot of
physical issues can be attributed to our. Mental health this
person really didn't like. That idea they had some of
their own physical issues and felt.
Speaker 2: Like that was.
Speaker 3: It was minimizing their, physical.
Speaker 2: Aspect.
Speaker 3: Right uh and then a couple other THINGS that i
won't get into that are all, you know part of,
the literature part of teaching. This work but for this
particular person at that time in, their life they weren't
in a place to really hear it the way, YOU
know i intended for them to, hear it and so
they but, it's, really uh it's really hard for me
to hear write this idea that there was someone that
was out.
Speaker 2: There for, five years five years five.
Speaker 3: Years, later YEAH so i HAD so I was i
was like really beat up for this day because it,
felt like, you know this is just this person who's
been the person has been out there for five years just, hating,
me right, and UH and i had, no idea and
it made, me think like who else is out there and?
Hates me and and, you know one of, MY things
i one of my PROBLEMS is I think i like to, be,
Liked right and so this is really hard, to sure
it was really hard.
Speaker 2: To.
Speaker 3: Accept uh and so so that evening after really just
kind of beating myselfself up all day, and, wondering jeez
you know five, years ago HOW could i have said?
That differently and why did this person choose to. TARGET
me i got a call From from deep and, he said, Uh,
UH rob I had i had a feeling that you
needed to talk, to me and so you basically just
called me and AND SAID i i had had a
feeling that you needed, to TALK which i. Absolutely did
or actually, HE said i had a feeling that you
needed a session. With me, he, Said coincidentally I'm, in WASHINGTON.
D c, right now, he said, we said we, must be,
you know on the same on the. Same wavelength this,
is awesome, that's great and. Thank, YOU yes i really
do need to hear from you. RIGHT now i don't
take any SUPPORT that i. Can get i'm feeling pretty awful.
About myself talked to him for a. Little while he
actually reiterated some of what we talked about earlier in
terms of how, you know sometimes, you know when you're
at a particularly high frequency and you're feeling, really good
people who are especially vulnerable and not in a, good place,
you know will, tend to, you know find you and
try to bring. You down and that was one of
the ways that he was trying to help me make
sense of that email and my role in it and
some of. Those, things well you long, STORY short i learned.
His itinerary he was GOING from Dc To New york
city and then he was Going to miami to meet
with some people At the University of miami and then
back Up To New. York CITY and i asked HIM
if i could, see him and, he, said, sure come
this is the day that you. Can come AND so
i arranged for it SO that i could go down and.
See him fisher is super supportive of all this work
and allowed me to use my professional development money to
go down and have a meeting with him and do.
Speaker 2: My thing.
Speaker 3: AND so i went down to, see him and it
was just another one of these, magical visits as all
of them seemed to. HAVE been i got to my
hotel and gave him. A call, he said this Is
Where i'm he stays At the Ambassador to pakistan's house
when He's In New, york city which is On The Upper.
East side AND so i had brought a Couple of
cuban cigars For the Ambassador to PAKISTAN because i knew
he Really liked, cuban CIGARS and i was excited to.
See him, he said this Is where. I'm AT and
i left the hotel to go walk to meet, him
there and within five minutes he comes pulling right by
me in a. Black van he's, not driving he's in.
The back it was an uber of, some sort and
he looks out. The window, he said doctor, rob, come
come come in the, you know come in.
Speaker 2: The van come.
Speaker 3: With me we're going somewhere. VERY important i don't even
know how he. FOUND me i don't know how he
KNEW where, i was but he KNEW that i was
on my way to that house and he came and picked.
Me up so we've got someone really important that we need.
To meet, so okay here. We go i'm, you know doing.
This again and so on the, way there he told
me a little bit about the Person that i'd. Be
meeting made it sound like he was pretty important In the.
Indian healthcare turns out he's like one of the most
important People and. Indian healthcare and then we get to
the to the building and greeted at the base of
the building and.
Speaker 2: Go up.
Speaker 3: You know so that second time in My life i've
been in one of These Amazing new york. Pet houses
the first time was also With doctor deep. Here before
and you get to the top of the building and
the elevator door, opens up and we're just in this.
Person's house and it's amazing because, you've got, You know
florida ceiling glass all the, way around and you just
See The New york city skyline. Around you and there's
this probably eighty at least eighty Year old indian gentleman
AND what i perceived to be his wife sitting next
to him at the far end of. The room and
so we. Go in deep sits down next to, the
gentleman the, older GENTLEMAN and i sat Next. To deep
they Started. SPEAKING hindu i had no idea what they.
WERE saying i didn't THERE'S but i was just kind
of it gave me a chance to take a mental
break and just kind of admire the SITUATION that i
was in AND where i. Was at and then over
the course of the, next hour, like one more people
just started coming into the room and sitting on, the
floor and there's different family members of. This gentleman his son.
Came in he son actually Went to cornell and Lives
In New. York city now it was. His apartment he
came in his kids came in And gave deep a
hug and and, And said i've got my. Magic water
and you know you could, tell that, You, know deep
it was really connected to all these people and they
thought highly. Of them and so at SOME point i
noticed that everyone except for me and this guy and
his wife And, doctor deep we were sitting on. THE floor,
i mean we were all SITTING and i felt KIND
of i felt bad. ABOUT that i didn't feel RIGHT
that i was in this other person's house AND that
i was sitting up in the chair and everybody else
was sitting on the on. The floor AND so i
sat down on. The floor and as SOON as i,
did that this, older gentleman the eighty five year, OLD
go i don't know how old, he is he might
not be, that old but he started giggling and just
it DID a b line for me and sat down
on the ground next, to me sat down on the
floor next to me and just like held my hand
and looked, at, me laughing looked at me giggling and
laughing while he held. My Hand and, i'm like this is.
Really odd, but again kind of one of those LIKE
when I met deep for the, first time where it,
was like this is, really strange but this just feels,
oddly comfortable and like there's something going on Here that i'm,
not understanding AND if i just sit and, be Open
then i'm going to. Understand, It right and so this went.
Speaker 2: On for about.
Speaker 3: Five minutes at some point he grabbed my hands and
put them together and started going then and started going.
Like this and then he grabbed his hands and he
started going, like this and like when we were kids
and we tried to make like fart noises with, our,
hands right he was like going, like that and he
and then he grabs my palm and he starts pressing
on my palm and. He goes he goes that the
pom connected to, the brain the palm connected to. The brain,
HE said i can see. You're anxious, he said this.
Will help and So now i'm. Doing this he's, doing
this everybody in the room starts like slapping their hands
together and they're. All laughing and it was just like the, wildest,
Thing right like everyone was just in, it together, you
know doing this ridiculous Thing that i've never. Seen before
probably should. KNOW about i, should have. YOU know i
guess THAT'S if i were. AN acupuncturist i would realize
that there's a connection between the palms and, the areas
and so we're all. Doing this the, NEXT morning i
Went to deeps for breakfast and the cook who uh
cooks for the Ambassador from pakistan made us some some
fish and some. Other Things and i'm eating the fish
And doctor deep is kind of Like an, italian grandmother
like he will make he touches all your food and
gives it to you and make sure that you. Try
Everything and i'm eating the fish and he says it's, really,
Good RIGHT and, i, said yeah. It's good, he Goes
That's bobby kennedy's. WIFE'S fish i said what, He, said yeah.
He SAID when i WAS, IN dc i was Meeting
With Robert. Kennedy jr and, his wife and his wife
gave me. This fish and so Somehow like i'm sitting
in the Ambassard of pakistan's you know house ander, east side,
you know eating Fish From bobby. Kennedy's wife no have
no idea how Like the deep ended up, with them
or how she thought to give, him fish OR how
i ended up. Eating it but it's just another great
example of one of These, jask, oh no you think.
OF it i didn't get to talk. To, her yeah
it's just.
Speaker 2: To him How About, kurb, Kurb Right. CHERYL hines, i,
thought yes, You're, right yeah. You're right She Was larry
davids wife. About that and then they.
Speaker 3: Get divorced apparently she's really interested In and naddy and
some of The Good doctor deep. Does, good yeah and
so he's, you know you, Know him, he's like everything's gonna.
Be wonderful she'll talk to her husband and he'll make
sure that that people IN the us start to learn.
Speaker 6: This.
Speaker 2: STUFF yeah i think it's. UH interesting i think the
resistance to it is also interesting because where is it.
Coming from. It's fear what it?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 2: Money money money with money is, another, One right so.
You're right so if we can strike the fear and
make you, Hate, whatever yeah that's that's. ALL true i
think that. That's amazing i'm sorry about the, student THING
but i find a student piece of this very interesting
to me in that it, to me it feels like
someone who is arguing for. Their LIMITATIONS now i don't know,
this PERSON but i say that because what you're teaching
is telling them they have the power. Within themselves to
correct some of, these things and they're mad because they've
been taught their. Whole, LIVES no i need the DOCTOR
and i, need MEDICATION and i, need THIS and i
need my mom to bring me my inhale. It Whatever
and i'm not saying that any of those things. Are
bad please. Understand that but if we can raise things
and get off that, and live you've got. The power
and it's interesting that someone wouldn't want to. Hear, that,
yeah no but how resistant. People are i'm. This person it's.
Not isolated i'm sure there's others not saying. About it
i'm sure. There, ARE well i got to think there's
got to be at least ten percent of the class hates, you.
Speaker 3: Well and that's, you know when you, read evaluations, you
know you get the nineteen or, you know seven out
of seven, and everybody and then you got that one
that doesn't, like you and that's always the one where your,
eye goes and that's the one that you remember. The,
MOST sure i think if you're not and this is,
partly me, you know talking, to myself making myself, feel
BETTER but i think partly if you're not pissing a few,
people off then you're not doing, It, right. Yeah right
in order to really learn, and change you need to be. Uncomfortable,
sometimes yeah so if there's the resistance, at all it
would be to the resistance to. Being UNCOMFORTABLE and i think.
Speaker 2: That's important it is interesting to ME when i hear.
This stuff but then at the same time you try, to,
go well LET'S say i am the person who has
whatever whatever, it is and now you're TELLING me i
have the power to, cure It but i've but a
mom and, dad's INSURANCE and i hear them bitching and
complaining about the, you know the expense of the doctors
and the blah blah blah and this, and that and
you know this makes, no sense and you're teaching it
to me in a formal. Educational center what is wrong?
With YOU and i, would say what? Is wrong what
has been wrong for so long that we haven't taught
this or made it more. Readily acceptable we're not telling
you to, believe it do what, you want but it's,
an alternative and that's what. It.
Speaker 3: Is, YEAH well i mean at this point that particular
idea isn't even, an. Alternative right there's plenty of research
that says in psychotherapy can be more effective for certain
types of pain. Than, medication, okay so, UH yeah i
think we're coming. Along Right The corset fisher is one
step in the right direction for teaching this kind. Of
STUFF and i think that's, you know that's that's where.
We're at. It's exciting if, this all if everybody believed
this and it was all out there and we, knew
everything then we wouldn't be able to have these. Exciting,
conversations no but.
Speaker 2: They, are. Yeah, Exactly yeah i'll leave. It there that's
true exciting conversations, For sure Doctor, rob rice the head
Of The Mental health Department Of Saint John. Fisher university
UH and i please go get The Book Lift Notes
Contemplating life's meaning On. The edge it's a great it's a.
Great read that, whole scene like how you just turned
into the flash and THE one i FELT like i
just needed to talk to you a little bit more.
Speaker 3: About that you read you read the manuscript, for that
the original and gave, me.
Speaker 2: Yes yes and then the uh YEAH what i thought
that was one Of these we all have the power
you gotta.
Speaker 3: Tap in you're the REASON why i kept the fart story.
Speaker 2: In there, that's right.
Speaker 6: YOU were i forgot you were On the that's like
the greatest, story ever just getting. Massage uncomfortable malma sus. Comes,
in yeah ripped a.
Speaker 3: Big one my head was stuck in that padded. TOILET
seat i.
Speaker 2: Couldn't move but. Ripped it it, just, said oh. Excuse
me oh it.
Speaker 3: Was terrible and it happened when he was doing the.
PERCUSSION thing.
Speaker 2: I forgot. ABOUT that i forgot. About, that well it's
your Fault that i've actually tried to do MORE because, i,
Thought yeah, rob's right used the time while you, got
it make hay while the. Sun shines. Let's go you're.
Doing it you know what you're doing For Doctor. Rob
Rice I'm. Bill moran we will see. You tomorrow it
wouldn't let us in the nut would land It and
mamma's locks rich No sand calma's bestay bowl a bark
in the. Breast mandates
Speaker 3: Let's see what