Speaker 1: With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
Speaker 2: Really beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen
Speaker 2: the bride and broom?
Speaker 3: Sorry?
Speaker 4: Sorry, we're here.
Speaker 5: We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost
Speaker 5: track of time. No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes
Speaker 5: that add up quicker than a guess registered.
Speaker 6: Well, in that case, I pronounce you lucky.
Speaker 1: Play for free Lucky Landslots dot Com. Daily bonuses are waiting.
Speaker 1: No purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by lack eighteen plus
Speaker 1: terms and conditions APPLA see website for details.
Speaker 5: Judy was boring Hello, Then Judy discovered chumpacasino dot com.
Speaker 3: It's my little escape.
Speaker 5: Now Judy is the life of the party.
Speaker 3: Oh baby mama is bringing home the bacon.
Speaker 5: WHOA Take it easy, Judy. Jump the chump of life
Speaker 5: is for everybody. So go to chumpacasino dot com and
Speaker 5: play over one hundred casino style games. Join today and
Speaker 5: play for free for your chance to redeem some serious prices.
Speaker 5: Jump chump a casino dot com.
Speaker 4: No for just necessary weight.
Speaker 5: We're no gitted by money team plus terms and condition
Speaker 5: to place.
Speaker 2: You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking
Speaker 2: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 2: written about them.
Speaker 4: Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK.
Speaker 2: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 2: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 2: Your Host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening Murderers,
Speaker 2: homicidal maniacs, serial killers, the police who put them behind bars.
Speaker 2: A mother kills her children one by one from home
Speaker 2: for spring break and never returns. Rumor has it the
Speaker 2: alligators devo devoured her body after a gang rape. A
Speaker 2: loving couple starts killing prostitutes on Sunset Strip. How many
Speaker 2: hookers will have to die? A man electrocutes his wife.
Speaker 2: Was it murder or a sexual fetish that went wrong?
Speaker 2: For the first time ever, twelve of Rod Cackley's shocking
Speaker 2: true crime stories, previously published as ebooks and short stories,
Speaker 2: have been compiled into a single book. Read the incredible, gripping,
Speaker 2: horrific tales of people who killed at random, murdered the
Speaker 2: ones they loved, and another led by the devil, along.
Speaker 4: With the true stories of the police who took them
Speaker 4: off the streets of London. Los Angeles, Georgia, Dianna, Florida,
Speaker 4: and Kalamazoo. Each story chronicles the vilest, bloodiest, and most
Speaker 4: heinous homicides committed by serial killers, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers,
Speaker 4: fathers in law, and maybe the people you see every day.
Speaker 4: You will never look at your neighbors the same way. Again.
Speaker 4: The book they were featuring this sevening is Murder, Twelve
Speaker 4: Shocking True Crime Stories with my special guest, journalist and
Speaker 4: author Rod Cackley. Welcome to the program, and thank you
Speaker 4: very much for a green in this interview. Rod Cackley, Dan,
Speaker 4: thank you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the opportunity. It's good to be back. It's
Speaker 3: good to be on with you.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. An incredible collection, certainly, twelve shocking
Speaker 4: true crime stories. Let's get to one of the incredible
Speaker 4: stories of this twelve and this is who killed Brittany Drexel.
Speaker 4: She's seventeen years old and she disappears April twenty fifth,
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine. This is a five foot pound
Speaker 4: five foot one hundred and three pound cheerleader and soccer star.
Speaker 4: Her home is in Rochester, New York. Tell us a
Speaker 4: little bit about her family life and the argument she
Speaker 4: has with her mother, and what this was all about,
Speaker 4: this argument over spring break. Tell us what the argument was,
Speaker 4: and tell us a little bit about the family situation
Speaker 4: that he has, the kind of person that she is.
Speaker 4: Tell us what happens over spring break.
Speaker 3: You know, Dan, when you hear and read these true
Speaker 3: crime stories, a lot of times you think, Okay, this
Speaker 3: person was on this path. This person was on a
Speaker 3: path to murder, to be a victim. They were always
Speaker 3: in the wrong place at always the wrong time. But
Speaker 3: that's not the case with Britney Drexel. Britney Drexel, as
Speaker 3: you said, is a beautiful seventeen year old kid, five
Speaker 3: feet tall, one hundred and three pounds, high school cheerleader,
Speaker 3: played soccer in or High school in Rochester, New York.
Speaker 3: Everything was on track for a good life for Britney Drexel.
Speaker 3: Her mom, Dawn, loved her daughter. There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 3: They were very tight. They did everything together. But then
Speaker 3: they reached a point where, you know, every teenager has
Speaker 3: to break away from the parents, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3: It just has to happen, And for Brittany, it happened
Speaker 3: one night when she decided that she wanted to go
Speaker 3: to spring break with her friends in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
Speaker 3: She argued with her mother, Dawn. Her mother never thought
Speaker 3: Britney would go to Myrtle Beach. She never thought she
Speaker 3: should go to Myrtle Beach. She was afraid something would happen.
Speaker 3: It's that mother's intuition kind of a thing. They argued
Speaker 3: about it all day long. I told her, Don said,
Speaker 3: I just felt like something would happen to her. She
Speaker 3: is not that Dawn didn't trust her. She really feels
Speaker 3: I felt at the time that Brittany was a good kid,
Speaker 3: a good girl. She said. I never felt that I
Speaker 3: could not trust her. It wasn't that she just had
Speaker 3: this feeling that something would happen to her. And you know,
Speaker 3: when you're seventeen years old alone for the very first time,
Speaker 3: you can make bad decisions. You can make the wrong decision.
Speaker 3: You cannot see danger. When you're seventeen, you're invincible. Let's
Speaker 3: face it, nothing can hurt you, right Well, it's you
Speaker 3: know so. But Dawn, she's the adult, she's the mother.
Speaker 3: It's her job to tell Brittany, no, you're too young
Speaker 3: for this, you're not ready for this. Brittany said, Okay, finally,
Speaker 3: after a whole day of arguing, and let's say, said,
Speaker 3: nobody argues like a mother and a seventeen year old daughter.
Speaker 3: You can just imagine what the player works were like
Speaker 3: in that house. But it's a nice house. It's a
Speaker 3: happy house. They're happy people. So they put it beside them.
Speaker 3: They came to a deal. They came to an agreement.
Speaker 3: They made a deal. Brittany asked if she could go
Speaker 3: spend the night at a friend's house. Dawn said great,
Speaker 3: you know, compromises everything in a family. She said, yeah,
Speaker 3: you can go. Britney packed a small bag and left.
Speaker 3: That was the last time Dawn ever saw her little girl.
Speaker 3: She took a little bag, not a big bag that
Speaker 3: you would think you would go to you would need
Speaker 3: to go on spring break. Just a very tiny bag.
Speaker 3: She even called. Brittany called Dawn that night after she
Speaker 3: left the house to aologize for the things that she
Speaker 3: had said in their argument and how she had acted
Speaker 3: during the day. Yeah, Dawn said, do you want to
Speaker 3: spend a couple of nights with your friend? Go ahead.
Speaker 3: They apologized, They made up. They were best friends again,
Speaker 3: as they always had been. The problem was Britney was
Speaker 3: actually now calling from Rochester. She was already on her
Speaker 3: way to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. She was last seen alive.
Speaker 3: They were going to a place. She and her friends
Speaker 3: are going to a place called a hotel motel called
Speaker 3: the Blue Water Resort on Ocean Boulevard. That's one of
Speaker 3: the busiest streets in Myrtle Beach. And this is jammed
Speaker 3: right now with high school kids, college kids, many of whom,
Speaker 3: like Brittany, were a long way from home, and they're
Speaker 3: out on their own for the very first time. Kids
Speaker 3: like this make mistakes of face it. This is life.
Speaker 3: Britney's mistake was venturing out alone. A surveillance camera saw her.
Speaker 3: A captured video of her leaving the hotel at eight
Speaker 3: forty five pm April twenty fifth. She's wearing a black
Speaker 3: and white tank top, shorts, and flipflops. She takes the
Speaker 3: time to text her boyfriend, who is back home. She's
Speaker 3: not with her boyfriend. She's I'm sorry. She is with
Speaker 3: her boyfriend, but she's not with him at the time.
Speaker 3: She's telling him that she's walking back to Bar Harbor,
Speaker 3: the mitel where she and her friends were staying about
Speaker 3: a mile and a half away from the Blue Water Resort.
Speaker 3: That's a distance about eight thousand feet. So she walked
Speaker 3: that easily, right, But something goes wrong. We don't know what.
Speaker 3: Somebody grabbed her. Perhaps she accepted a ride from someone
Speaker 3: that she shouldn't have accepted a ride from. Whatever happened,
Speaker 3: Britney was gone. You talk about her friend, I'm sorry, Go.
Speaker 4: Ahead, sorry, You talk about her father and adopted father.
Speaker 4: Really they were very close as well, just like a
Speaker 4: regular biological father. The boyfriend contacts the family content don
Speaker 4: Soon she realizes what her daughter has done against her wishes.
Speaker 4: But now it's time not to you know, it's not
Speaker 4: for recrimination, it's to do to go into action. So
Speaker 4: what does the family do and tell us how the
Speaker 4: FBI get involved in? Why?
Speaker 3: Sure, Down, I had no idea Britney was in any
Speaker 3: kind of trouble, But the boyfriend calls and says he's worried.
Speaker 3: So Dawn, rather than calling Myrtle Beach PD, Down, rather
Speaker 3: calls her hometown PD, the Rochester, New York Police Department,
Speaker 3: for help, so that obviously delays the search to the situation.
Speaker 3: She starts calling Brittany Brittany's boyfriend descending texts to the
Speaker 3: girl's cell phone. Britney's not getting back to them. She
Speaker 3: she left all the clothes behind, her makeups behind at
Speaker 3: the Blue Water Resort, and so Dawn can't believe that
Speaker 3: she ran away from the Blue Water Resort on her own.
Speaker 3: But FBI agents get involved. They believed the high school
Speaker 3: junior who dreamt of becoming a nurser a cosmetologist, was abducted.
Speaker 3: That's how they got involved with this because they saw
Speaker 3: this as a kidnapping. Britney did not take her purse,
Speaker 3: she didn't take any clothes, she didn't even take her makeup,
Speaker 3: and Dawn says she never would have gone anywhere without
Speaker 3: those three things FBI. FBI special ation in charge on
Speaker 3: this case, David Thomas, told reporters at a press conference
Speaker 3: that Britney's cell phone transmitted its last known signal from
Speaker 3: somewhere along the South Santee River between mcclellanville and Georgetown,
Speaker 3: South Carolina, the day after she vanished. His team assured
Speaker 3: that Britney's dead, that she'd been murdered, although at the
Speaker 3: time he declined to reveal what evidence they had of
Speaker 3: the crime. He did describe the investigation as exhaustive. So
Speaker 3: I the FBI gets involved because it seems to be
Speaker 3: a kidnapping, or they believed it to be a kidnapping.
Speaker 3: Britney's father, Chad, he adopted at me the biological daughter
Speaker 3: of his then wife down Brittany A. Chad and Don
Speaker 3: had split, but he told People magazine he needed everything
Speaker 3: he thought he could do to find the teenager. He
Speaker 3: said he was the only father that she'd ever known,
Speaker 3: so he felt like he was very close to Brittany,
Speaker 3: and Chad said after the FBI agent in charge, Thomas,
Speaker 3: told him and Dawn that their child had probably been murdered,
Speaker 3: he nearly collapsed, but he still did not give up
Speaker 3: looking for Britney. The FBI investigation didn't reveal that Brittany
Speaker 3: was probably held against her will for several days before
Speaker 3: she died. I was shaking, Chad said. My adrenaline was going,
Speaker 3: I was sweating profusely. I lived and holding back with
Speaker 3: every bit of my might not to go and find
Speaker 3: the killer or killers who did this, one of them
Speaker 3: brought to justice. That's how he felt that day when
Speaker 3: he'd learned that Brittany had probably been murdered.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you talk about this case going cold, despite the
Speaker 4: FBI's efforts and despite that investigation, that somewhere along near
Speaker 4: Mcclellanville on this route, that she because of the cell
Speaker 4: phone pings off the towers. And then to everyone's surprise,
Speaker 4: and really this is a surprise, as you write, seven
Speaker 4: years later, an inmate named to Kwan Brown talks to
Speaker 4: ani FBI agent. Now what does he tell that FBI
Speaker 4: agent seven years later? To everyone's surprise, Now.
Speaker 3: He tells the story of what he claims to be
Speaker 3: a jail house confession from one of his cellmates. Now
Speaker 3: we should make the point too that they set up
Speaker 3: a tip line during this time. Rewards were offered. They
Speaker 3: did a lot, They did everything they could to try
Speaker 3: to get anything they could find out about Brittany and
Speaker 3: her disappearance. But then, like you say, all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: this guy to Kwan Brown, makes a jail house confession.
Speaker 3: He tells an FBI agent that Brittany had been inducted.
Speaker 3: He was serving a twenty five year sentence for voluntary manslaughter.
Speaker 3: He tells the FBI he saw a sixteen year old
Speaker 3: boy sexually abusing Brittany Drexel inside and drug stash house
Speaker 3: in Mcclellanville. Now, remember this is a jail house, I said,
Speaker 3: jail house, confection. It really should be a jail house. Informant,
Speaker 3: I think because as he walked through the house, he
Speaker 3: said this drug house to get money. To the head
Speaker 3: of the house, he said, Brittany broke away from the
Speaker 3: teenager who was abusing her and she ran out of
Speaker 3: a house. But her attacker, that he identified as Timothy
Speaker 3: to Sean Taylor, ran after Brittany, pistoled with her over
Speaker 3: the head, and then dragged her back inside the house.
Speaker 3: After Kwan says it's not the only time or even
Speaker 3: the first time that he saw Brittany. He said Timothy
Speaker 3: had bragged about picking her up in Myrtle Beach and
Speaker 3: taking her to Mcclellanville. According to the court transcript, to
Speaker 3: Kwan said Timothy showed her off, introduced her to some
Speaker 3: friends who were there. They ended up tricking her out
Speaker 3: with other friends. This is where we're getting into the
Speaker 3: human trafficking and the forced prostitution. He offers her to
Speaker 3: them and wound up, as to Kwan put it, getting
Speaker 3: into a human trafficking situation. He admits he never saw
Speaker 3: Brittany again after she was dragged back into the house,
Speaker 3: but he does claim that they heard two gunshots and
Speaker 3: assumed that she was killed, and he assumed that Timothy
Speaker 3: was the one who pulled the trigger, the one who
Speaker 3: had killed her. Then he said to Kwan, said Brittany's
Speaker 3: body was wrapped up in a carpenter or a rug
Speaker 3: or something like that and carried away. So he thinks
Speaker 3: his jail house confession that they're trying to shave some
Speaker 3: time off a sentence. How reliable is this guy? These
Speaker 3: are questions the FBI is obviously asking themselves. And again
Speaker 3: they're characterizing this information as a tidbit or even second hand,
Speaker 3: but they were tips. The FBI said that it were
Speaker 3: valuable to this case. And what did they do with
Speaker 3: the body after she was rolled up in a carpet
Speaker 3: or whatever it was and carried out of the house.
Speaker 3: The FBI agents, one of them said, several witness has
Speaker 3: said Britney's body was placed in a pit, a gator pit,
Speaker 3: so that her body could be eaten, disposed of, eaten
Speaker 3: by the alligators. Now the investigation is continuing. Obviously here
Speaker 3: the jailhouse confession brings another mother into this story, and
Speaker 3: we talked about don Drexel and what everything she went through.
Speaker 3: Let's think about Timothy's mother, Joan Taylor, Timothy Taylor's mother
Speaker 3: to Kwan's testimony came into August hearing after a new
Speaker 3: charge had been filed against Timothy for a previous crime.
Speaker 3: Now he was doing two years probation for being a
Speaker 3: getaway driver in a twenty eleven robbery of the McDonald's restaurant.
Speaker 3: He's also now indicted in connection with the federal crime
Speaker 3: interference of interstate commerce for the involvement in that McDonald's
Speaker 3: told up. So now he's got a lot of problems
Speaker 3: his mother. Think about what his mother is going through,
Speaker 3: her child, her son, her boy is facing all these
Speaker 3: charges and now something new comes up. Accused of kidnapping, raping,
Speaker 3: and killing a young girl of seventeen year old girl,
Speaker 3: Brittany Drexel, Timothy DeShawn talks to a TV station, WMBF
Speaker 3: News and does an interview, a long interview with Brett Davidson,
Speaker 3: a reporter there, and he claims that he never ever
Speaker 3: knew Brittany personally, never met her in person, had no
Speaker 3: physical contact at all with Brittany. The only thing he
Speaker 3: knows about Brittany is what he's seen on TV, heard
Speaker 3: on the radio, and what the FBI had been telling
Speaker 3: him in their conversations with him, the interrogations of him.
Speaker 3: He claims and still does that he had absolutely nothing
Speaker 3: to do with this case.
Speaker 4: You talk about his mother, you talk about his mother
Speaker 4: being outraged over the allegations to defend her son. There
Speaker 4: is some veracity to her claim in that she said
Speaker 4: this is absurd because along with to Kwan Brown's original
Speaker 4: allegations was that her husband, Deshaun Taylor's father was also
Speaker 4: involved in the gang rape of Britney Drexel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly. That was part of what Chuck she said.
Speaker 3: You know, he said that Timothy's father was also a
Speaker 3: part of this. Now Joe and his mother and is
Speaker 3: a church pastor. She testified in her son's defense during
Speaker 3: a bond hearing. She described him as a great kid.
Speaker 3: She said, the whole story about her son and husband kidnapping,
Speaker 3: raping and Kelly Britney was just a bunch of craziness.
Speaker 3: I mean this again, according to John at any rate,
Speaker 3: you know, this is a family that you never would
Speaker 3: think would go down this path now again. Obviously, Timothy's
Speaker 3: had some problems with the law before the McDonald's hold up. Okay,
Speaker 3: but holding up at McDonald's restaurants, in her mind at least,
Speaker 3: is not the same as kidnapping, raping, and killing a girl.
Speaker 3: She claims that the story is that they're faced with
Speaker 3: is just a bunch of craziness. To quote her, she
Speaker 3: says she was always a tough, disciplinarian, She took no
Speaker 3: gift from her son, never, and she repeatedly asserted that
Speaker 3: Timothy would never be involved in a crime like this.
Speaker 3: And as he said Dan, what made it even more
Speaker 3: unbelievable was her husband, who was also implicated by Ta
Speaker 3: Kwan's confession or his statement as one of those who
Speaker 3: took part in the ganging, rape, and killing. Jones said
Speaker 3: she wanted to scream and yell when she heard the
Speaker 3: accusations because, as she put it, it's just not in our.
Speaker 4: Nature to complicate this. And as great two crime stories are,
Speaker 4: there's always something to make you maybe even doubt somewhat
Speaker 4: your conclusions. Chad her stepfather, Drexel. He was handing out
Speaker 4: flyers again in a desperate attempt for anyone to see
Speaker 4: if they recognize his his missing daughter. And he was
Speaker 4: handing out flyers and you write about a confrontation he
Speaker 4: said he had with DeShawn Taylor. Tell us as you write, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Timothy to Shawn Taylor. Yeah, he was handing out foers,
Speaker 3: doing anything he could. He went down to South Carolina.
Speaker 3: He's handing out flyers, talking to people, you know the usual.
Speaker 3: Have you seen this my daughter? Have you seen this girl?
Speaker 3: Have you seen her anywhere? And guess who he talked to.
Speaker 3: He talked to Timothy to Sean Taylor. Deshon Taylor was
Speaker 3: in a car with some other guys and Chad walked
Speaker 3: up and showed him the flyer and said, have you
Speaker 3: seen her? And he said no, Timothy, Deshan Taylor said no,
Speaker 3: I have never seen her, had no idea and they
Speaker 3: had something of a confrontation between the two of them.
Speaker 3: So you know that that you know, you have to
Speaker 3: think about that too.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Certainly what in the end was made of that
Speaker 4: out those allegations, that statement right, Also that it was
Speaker 4: complicated by the police having another motivation in terms of
Speaker 4: putting pressure on him from the original charges making a
Speaker 4: second charge connected to the robbery charge as sort of
Speaker 4: as you write, it seemed like pressure for these allegations
Speaker 4: regarding it did seem like that.
Speaker 3: You know, we always hear stories about guys who are
Speaker 3: people who confess because it seems to them a better
Speaker 3: alternative than what could lay ahead if they faced all
Speaker 3: of the charges, you know, confessing to something relatively small
Speaker 3: or just getting it over. And so there is that too,
Speaker 3: where they're putting this additional pressure on him in an
Speaker 3: effort to force him to or convince him to confess
Speaker 3: to what happened to Dawn, or would he they get
Speaker 3: him to, you know, confess to other things. So there
Speaker 3: was that complication too. You know, Dawn and Chad obviously
Speaker 3: they're going to life now because Dawn's body still to
Speaker 3: this day, has never been found. So you know, they
Speaker 3: saw the FBI report in June twenty sixteen. However, that
Speaker 3: really laid it out. You know, as Dawn said, imagine
Speaker 3: just having hope that your daughter is still alive and
Speaker 3: then find out that she's not and she was brutally murdered.
Speaker 3: She described it down did as a hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 3: And what made it even worse was that her daughter, evidently,
Speaker 3: according to the FBI report had been the victim of
Speaker 3: human trafficking. Dawn said she thought that was what had happened.
Speaker 3: She really did believe in her heart of hearts that
Speaker 3: Brittany was kidnapped and was forced into a human trafficking situation.
Speaker 3: She still wants to know what happened, you know, just
Speaker 3: even if she believes that, yes, Brittany is killed, that
Speaker 3: she was kidnapped, raped, and she wants more. She wants
Speaker 3: somebody to be convicted of this. And she you know,
Speaker 3: something that makes it even harder, I guess is that
Speaker 3: the friends Britney's friends who were with her on spring
Speaker 3: Break Bill as of July twenty sixteen, had not spoken
Speaker 3: to Dawn or the Chad and that really hurts Dawn
Speaker 3: for them to come back and not say a word.
Speaker 3: Don said something happened down there, and I'm not sure
Speaker 3: the way to connect this, but to me, she said,
Speaker 3: I just think they knew something, Britney's friends. Could they
Speaker 3: have known something that they're keeping quiet too?
Speaker 4: Well, we won't go too much into that, but I
Speaker 4: think that if I was one of the friends that
Speaker 4: helped to deceive the mother and again being friends, this
Speaker 4: is the kind of type. She would know her daughter's friends.
Speaker 4: That's the last person I would want to face in
Speaker 4: light of what all that happened, And of course feeling
Speaker 4: somewhat responsible since you did deceive the mother and she
Speaker 4: walked on her own and this happened. So I don't
Speaker 4: know if there's anything more, but I just feel bad
Speaker 4: for the mother to think all of these things. The
Speaker 4: way she be tormented her and Chad for the rest
Speaker 4: of their lives is and part of the horror of
Speaker 4: this story. Let's go to another story, talking about a
Speaker 4: step daughter again. This is the deliciously dead stepdaughter Gregory Graf,
Speaker 4: a fifty four year old, and we talked about the
Speaker 4: introduction about seemingly normal people. You'll never look at your
Speaker 4: neighbor the same. Again, let's talk about Gregory Graf, fifty
Speaker 4: four years old and his stepdaughter, Jessica Paget, thirty three
Speaker 4: years old. What happens? Where's his wife? Tell us? What
Speaker 4: happens on this date? November tenth, twenty and fifteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's back up a couple of days before then,
Speaker 3: either the eighth or the ninth, Gregory goes to a
Speaker 3: sex shop and buys sex toys, brings them back home.
Speaker 3: We would imagine then on November tenth, and he also
Speaker 3: picks up a couple of video cameras. Now, then on
Speaker 3: November tenth, he calls his stepdaughter. He's having trouble at work. Now,
Speaker 3: Gregory has an office in his home. He's having trouble
Speaker 3: with his back or his computer, and he asks Jessica
Speaker 3: to leave her job. She's working at a childcare center,
Speaker 3: a Duck Duck Goose, a daycare center in Northampton. And
Speaker 3: he calls her and says he needs help with the
Speaker 3: computer program. Which is not unusual for a fifty four
Speaker 3: year old guy to ask a thirty three year old
Speaker 3: for help with a computer. That's not unusual at all.
Speaker 3: And we need to make the point that Gregory and
Speaker 3: Jessica got along great. I mean it was a very
Speaker 3: happy again, this is a very happy family. Well, Jessica
Speaker 3: goes over to the house, gets into his office and
Speaker 3: sits down at his computer to try to figure out
Speaker 3: what's wrong with the program and to try to get
Speaker 3: it going for him. Where Gregory leaves the room and
Speaker 3: comes back in holding a twenty two caliber semi automatic pistol.
Speaker 3: He puts it to the back of Jessica's head, and
Speaker 3: pulls the trigger kills her dead. He drags her body
Speaker 3: into a spare bendroom, left it there for several hours. Now,
Speaker 3: he said, well, people are still working around him. Okay,
Speaker 3: the fencing company, he still works there, Gregory dragged. Well,
Speaker 3: after everybody leaves, Gregory throws the body onto a bed
Speaker 3: and starts having sex with the corpse. He put a
Speaker 3: garbage bag over Jessica's head, recorded a video of himself
Speaker 3: on not one but two cameras having sex with the corpse,
Speaker 3: as well as using the sex toys that he purchased
Speaker 3: the day before on her dead body. He raped the court.
Speaker 3: Now this is he raped the corpse for two hours.
Speaker 3: When he was finished, he dragged Jessica's body outside and
Speaker 3: pushed it down an embankment. God just got rid of
Speaker 3: it like that, pushed it away. Then he tried to
Speaker 3: hide it. He put some stig sober and some other
Speaker 3: debris over, and he had seven acres of property. So
Speaker 3: he grabs the body. He decides, pushing it down the
Speaker 3: ebank that isn't enough to hide it. So he buries
Speaker 3: her in leaves and some other degres. Something inside and
Speaker 3: SNAPTI said, you know he never considered. Now, this guy
Speaker 3: is the guy who doesn't. He has never even had
Speaker 3: much of a traffic kicket, never a misdemeanor, certainly not
Speaker 3: a felony, nothing that would give you any idea that
Speaker 3: he could have anything like this going on. And oh,
Speaker 3: by the way, you asked where it was his wife
Speaker 3: at this time, Jessica's mother. She was away in Florida.
Speaker 3: She was in Florida, so he knew that she was going.
Speaker 3: He had the opportunity, you know, there was the opportunity
Speaker 3: that a criminal would look for. He had the sex toys,
Speaker 3: he had the video. He knew he could be along
Speaker 3: with Jessica, and he knew his wife, Jessica's mother, would
Speaker 3: be away in Florida.
Speaker 4: How does it come to the police discover Jessica's body?
Speaker 4: Where is Jessica's body? How to police discover this incredible crime?
Speaker 3: He was pushed down an embankment and then on seven
Speaker 3: acres of property. Then he buries it with leaves and
Speaker 3: other debris. But Jessica's husband, Michael Paget, knows something's wrong
Speaker 3: because Jessica suddenly has disappeared. Everybody has a pretty good
Speaker 3: idea where she is because she told her co workers
Speaker 3: at the daycare center that she was going to her
Speaker 3: father in law's house. I'm sorry, her father, her stepfather's house,
Speaker 3: to help him with this computer program. So everyone knows
Speaker 3: where he is. The police show up and he cracks
Speaker 3: right away. Now, this is a guy who's not used
Speaker 3: to police interrogation at all. He gives it up right away.
Speaker 3: He even draws a map to help the state police
Speaker 3: troopers find Jessica's body. It was a no brainer. I mean,
Speaker 3: he gave it up right away. He tells the police
Speaker 3: troopers at the time that afternoon when they're talking to him.
Speaker 3: Then what happened to Jessica. What he did to Jessica,
Speaker 3: in his words, was just a blur. He never meant
Speaker 3: to hurt her. He never meant to hurt anybody Gregory.
Speaker 3: He stressed that even though he thought about sex a lot,
Speaker 3: even in his sexual fantasies, he never hurt anybody. He said,
Speaker 3: I'm not really a bad guy, he told the police troopers.
Speaker 3: He said, I just lost my mind temporarily. He was
Speaker 3: watching I'm going to go ahead. Yeah, Now he had
Speaker 3: been watching pornography. Okay, that he doesn't shy away from that,
Speaker 3: but he said even in his sexual fantasies that were
Speaker 3: part of the pornography, and he'd been watching pornography just
Speaker 3: before he killed him. That he never fantasized about hurting
Speaker 3: anybody said, what happened was a blur. He just lost
Speaker 3: his mind temporarily. They took the jury six minutes to
Speaker 3: convict him a first degree murder and send him to
Speaker 3: prison for the rest of his life without any hope
Speaker 3: of parole. They also convicted him of abusing Jessica's corpse,
Speaker 3: and as they led him away, the judge asked after
Speaker 3: the steps thing if he had anything to say, and
Speaker 3: Graft simply said just that I'm very sorry.
Speaker 4: Part of the horror of this is that you say,
Speaker 4: the jury only took six minutes to make their guilty
Speaker 4: decision a first degree murder. But part of that was
Speaker 4: that the jury had to endure that video.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, right right. They had to watch the whole
Speaker 3: two hours. They watched the whole two hours of video
Speaker 3: that he where he's you know, raping the corpse and
Speaker 3: using the sex toys on the corpse. Yeah, so it
Speaker 3: was it was a tough This is a tough time
Speaker 3: to be on this jury. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's incredible. We're going to use this as an
Speaker 4: opportunity to take a break right now to talk about
Speaker 4: our sponsor, which is fab fit Fun. The twenty nineteen
Speaker 4: fab fit Fun spring box is on sale now. Treat
Speaker 4: yourself with items in it such as the unplugged Medita
Speaker 4: a roma therapy diffuser for essential oils. Do you love
Speaker 4: discovering new products? Are you a beauty and fashion maven,
Speaker 4: constantly on the hunt for the next best thing ever,
Speaker 4: read about or spot something online that you've always wanted
Speaker 4: to try but never have, Then you must try fab
Speaker 4: fit Fun. Fat fit Fun allows women everywhere to discover
Speaker 4: new products as well as including raverview must have products,
Speaker 4: must have brands that you know and love. It's like
Speaker 4: Christmas four times a year. Stumped on gift ideas, fab
Speaker 4: fit Fun is a great gift to yourself or to
Speaker 4: a loved one. Surprise your man, mum, or sister with
Speaker 4: the spring box as a gift or to show thanks.
Speaker 4: Do you have a daughter who is going to college
Speaker 4: or a friend who is a new mum. Fab fit
Speaker 4: Fun is an awesome care package. My wife Lisa received
Speaker 4: her fab fit Fun spring box she remarked at how
Speaker 4: just how beautiful the box looked. Inside, she discovered an
Speaker 4: unplugged meditation roma therapy difuser, an orange Bergamont Levito body lotion,
Speaker 4: a doctor brandt idpuffing gel, a Quasi Levin conditioner, a
Speaker 4: Swell steel water bottle, Champagne body scrub, lots of surprises,
Speaker 4: interesting high end products. Lisa was very, very impressed and
Speaker 4: happy with her fabfit Fund spring box, full size products,
Speaker 4: no samples of anything. Every box is guarantee you to
Speaker 4: have over two hundred dollars in retail value twenty nineteen
Speaker 4: spring box total retail value equals three hundred and forty
Speaker 4: seven to three hundred and fifty four ninety nine. Great
Speaker 4: for discovering new brands and products. What a better way
Speaker 4: to shop? Sign up for fadfit fund today. These boxes
Speaker 4: always sell out. Use my code murder to get ten
Speaker 4: dollars off your first box. Go to fabfitfund dot com
Speaker 4: to sign up and start getting the box for a
Speaker 4: life well lived. Use promo code murder to get ten
Speaker 4: dollars off your first box. That's two hundred dollars. Over
Speaker 4: two hundred dollars for only thirty nine to ninety nine
Speaker 4: go do fabfitfun dot com and use my code murder
Speaker 4: to get ten dollars off your first fabfit Fun box.
Speaker 4: Now we are going to talk about another incredible story
Speaker 4: in here, one that people might be familiar with, one
Speaker 4: that's certainly on the charts, off the charts for evil.
Speaker 4: And this is one called sexual killing, a shocking true
Speaker 4: crime story of love then murder, and this is Los
Speaker 4: Angeles Carol Bundy and Doug Clark, often called the Sunset
Speaker 4: Strip Killers or the Sunset Strip Slayers. Tell us a
Speaker 4: little bit about Carol Bundy before we talk about how
Speaker 4: she meets Doug Clark. Tell us a little bit about
Speaker 4: this central figure in this incredible true crime story.
Speaker 3: To the kind of person Dan that I almost feel
Speaker 3: sorry for. Carol Bundy was sexually abused as a child
Speaker 3: by her father after her mother died. In fact, the
Speaker 3: first time that he forced her to have sex was
Speaker 3: the knife of her mother's funeral. Now her father remarries,
Speaker 3: Carol lives in foster homes. She marries three times, the
Speaker 3: first time at the age of seventeen to a fifty
Speaker 3: six year old man. Carol is short, kind of I
Speaker 3: guess dumpy, you know, not an attractive woman at all.
Speaker 3: She's never as happy with her hair, She's nearsighted and
Speaker 3: has to wear very thick beer but I mean very
Speaker 3: thick glasses. She just is not an attractive woman and
Speaker 3: really feels bad about herself. She is looking for love
Speaker 3: in the worst way. She is looking for someone. She's
Speaker 3: looking for a man. That's what she wants, although she
Speaker 3: has played around with women too. It's not that she's
Speaker 3: bisexual as much as she just wants to love and
Speaker 3: for ever who she'll get it, take it from whoever
Speaker 3: she can get it from.
Speaker 1: With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
Speaker 2: Nearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen
Speaker 2: the bride and groom?
Speaker 6: Sorry?
Speaker 5: Sorry, we're here. We were getting lucky in the limo
Speaker 5: and we lost track of time. No Lucky Land casino
Speaker 5: with cash prizes that add up quicker than a guess registered.
Speaker 6: In that case, I pronounce you lucky.
Speaker 1: Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Daily bonuses
Speaker 1: are waiting. No purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by Lockey
Speaker 1: Team plus terms and conditions APPLA see website for details.
Speaker 1: With the Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just
Speaker 1: about anywhere.
Speaker 6: It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the
Speaker 6: weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here
Speaker 6: a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that.
Speaker 6: It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I
Speaker 6: suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right,
Speaker 6: and start getting lucky.
Speaker 1: Play for free at lucky landslots dot com. Are you
Speaker 1: feeling lucky? No purchase necessary. Void were prohibited by Law
Speaker 1: eighteen plus Terms and conditions applying to the website for detail.
Speaker 4: You talk about her having after a third marriage, she
Speaker 4: had an affair with a local country singer named Jack Murray.
Speaker 4: And while listening to Jack Murray one day at this
Speaker 4: club that she would go to, she met Doug Clark
Speaker 4: and tell us a little bit about Doug Clark and
Speaker 4: sort of much different character than Carol.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's as handsome, he's as good looking as Carol
Speaker 3: is not. Doug Clark is the son of a retired
Speaker 3: Navy admiral turned international engineer and lived in thirty seven
Speaker 3: countries before settling in South California. After Doug left the
Speaker 3: Air Force in the late sixties, he drifted. Though he
Speaker 3: was a mechanic. He concentrated, he said, on what he
Speaker 3: described as a vocation as a sexual and being king
Speaker 3: of the one night stands, as he liked to call himself.
Speaker 3: He ran into Carol Bundy this night at a country
Speaker 3: bar called Little Nashville's in North Hollywood and moved in
Speaker 3: with her quickly after that she was listening. They were
Speaker 3: listening to a local country singer, Jack Murray. And he
Speaker 3: really figures into this story too because Jack Murray is
Speaker 3: one of Carroll's former boyfriends Jack and that's a whole
Speaker 3: other story too about her relationship with Jack Murray. But
Speaker 3: Doug Clark meets her and picks her up at this
Speaker 3: bar at closing time, the last call, and honestly, he
Speaker 3: said later that the reason he picked her up and
Speaker 3: took her home was that she was the last woman left. Well,
Speaker 3: there was no other reason than that. Doug is more
Speaker 3: than just someone who wants to be a sexual athlete
Speaker 3: and the king of the one night stands. He's also
Speaker 3: a killer. He turns out to be a serial killer
Speaker 3: who prays, especially on prostitutes on the Sansett's trip. Carol
Speaker 3: finds out about this because he comes home and tells
Speaker 3: her about her. He tells her about how he killed
Speaker 3: two prostitutes. He tells her about it while he and
Speaker 3: Carol are making love one night. He tells her what
Speaker 3: it was like to kill the first prostitute, dump her body,
Speaker 3: then go back and pick up her friend because that
Speaker 3: was a witness, kill her, and make love to her corpse.
Speaker 3: And Carol said that night she and Doug had the
Speaker 3: best sex they experienced in a week. See Carol is
Speaker 3: looking for love, Doug wants a sex slave. They would
Speaker 3: seem to be perfect for each other. Doug is in
Speaker 3: her apartment quite often. Finally he moves in with her
Speaker 3: and they become a couple. Carol, what happens to get closer?
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, so go ahead. Yeah, Carol wants to it
Speaker 3: even closer to Doug. And now Doug goes out and
Speaker 3: kills two more prostitutes. One of them is a twenty
Speaker 3: year old cooker named Exy Wilson. He gets her to
Speaker 3: get into his car and have oral sex. They park,
Speaker 3: they do it. Done shoots her in the head, but
Speaker 3: x doesn't die easily and injures Doug. He shoots her again.
Speaker 3: Finally she's dead. He throws her body out of the car.
Speaker 3: They're in a secluded almost wooded area. At least they're
Speaker 3: secluded as you can get close to the Sunset Strip.
Speaker 3: He throws her body out of the car, takes a
Speaker 3: honey knife out of his glove box, stritz her naked,
Speaker 3: rapes the corpse and sits on top of the body
Speaker 3: and cuts off Exi's head with his with his hunting knife.
Speaker 3: But here again, we've got a witness to take care of.
Speaker 3: He's thinking about tossing XY's head away with the rest
Speaker 3: he you know. He pushes the body in. They're in
Speaker 3: a grassy area, throws the body away, and he's got dry.
Speaker 3: He takes it to the Sunset Strip, drives into an alley,
Speaker 3: finds a dumpster, and throws the body away there. He's
Speaker 3: going to toss Exi's head into the dumpster, but it
Speaker 3: seems like a waste of look good. He hands it
Speaker 3: in his gym bag, a nice gym, kind of expensive
Speaker 3: gym bag. He also throwing the gym bag into the dumpster.
Speaker 3: It seems to him to be a waste of a
Speaker 3: good gym bag and a waste of an excellent trophy.
Speaker 3: And from what we all know about serial killers at
Speaker 3: least many of them. They do collect trophies. Xxy's head
Speaker 3: is a trophy to him, but first he wants to
Speaker 3: go back home and show it to Carol and tell
Speaker 3: her all about it. Because they had great sex the
Speaker 3: last time, why wouldn't they this time? But he's got
Speaker 3: a witness to take care of Exy's friend. Another hook here,
Speaker 3: another hooker, Karen Jones. Now he goes back and finds Karen,
Speaker 3: tells her that Exi is waiting for them at a
Speaker 3: motel and they're going to have a threesome. She believes him.
Speaker 3: Money talks, goes back into that remote area though where
Speaker 3: he killed Exi, gives her a twenty to have oral
Speaker 3: sense with him. While she's earning that twenty, he shoots
Speaker 3: her in the head and kills her. So there he's
Speaker 3: got too dead now he does. He does not cut
Speaker 3: off her head, but he does throw her body away
Speaker 3: into the brushy area, takes Exsy's head back to the
Speaker 3: apartment where Carol is shows her the head, pulls the
Speaker 3: head out of the bag and shows it to her,
Speaker 3: and then has sex with Exsy's head before putting it
Speaker 3: into the freezer of the refrigerator in the kitchen. Doug's wasted.
Speaker 3: He's had a heck of a knife, right, He's too
Speaker 3: tired to have sex with Carol, as much as he
Speaker 3: wants to. He just goes to bed. Carol, though, while
Speaker 3: she's repulsed, she's kind of fascinated by the Exsy's head
Speaker 3: in the freezer, so she takes it out of the freezer,
Speaker 3: goes into the bathroom, puts this head on the sink,
Speaker 3: gets her makeup kit, and decides she wants to make
Speaker 3: Exsy's head prettier for Doug. Excuse me, she wants to
Speaker 3: make it prettier for Doug so that it will be
Speaker 3: a pleasant surprise for him when she wakes up. So
Speaker 3: when he wakes up, she's really turned on by this.
Speaker 3: Now this is You think Carol's a very nice person,
Speaker 3: and perhaps she was, but she is really getting into
Speaker 3: this new sex game and she thinks she's found the
Speaker 3: perfect guy, especially when Doug wigs up, comes out of
Speaker 3: the bedroom, sees what she's doing and falls in love
Speaker 3: with XY's head. He asks her to make it look
Speaker 3: like Barbie. He wants to make the head look like
Speaker 3: Barbie cheryld does her vest look like a big the
Speaker 3: head look like a big barbie doll and Doug has
Speaker 3: sex with the head again. Not a one night stand here.
Speaker 3: Carol and Doug kept playing with Exey's head for three days.
Speaker 3: They do make up and sex, sex and makeup, make
Speaker 3: up and sex back and forth for three days, but
Speaker 3: Doug gets tired of it. They have the Severn cold head.
Speaker 3: They take it out of the freezer. Gotta get rid
Speaker 3: of the head. Cherld goes shopping. She buys a very
Speaker 3: red or neat wooden chest to put the head in
Speaker 3: Exy Wilson's head, and they take a drive into la
Speaker 3: and try to find a place to dump the head.
Speaker 3: They do. They find a dumpster behind the Studio Sizzler
Speaker 3: restaurant they throw which is where they threw or he
Speaker 3: threw XY's body away. And they go into that same
Speaker 3: alley and toss the head away in this wooden chest.
Speaker 3: The guy driving down the alley near his apartment backs
Speaker 3: into the chest, opens it up, and pulls out Exi
Speaker 3: Wilson's head. Now this is where the police come into
Speaker 3: the story. Obviously he calls the lapd and it's just
Speaker 3: it's so bad that they obviously know. This is a
Speaker 3: hot summer night. This is all happening in the summer
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty in Los Angeles, which turned out to
Speaker 3: be one of the warmer summers on record in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: Carol is really getting into this, so she decides that
Speaker 3: she should go with Doug the next time he picks
Speaker 3: up a hooker, which they do. Seventeen year old girl
Speaker 3: by the name of Kathy. Kathy gets in the front seat.
Speaker 3: She's nervous. She's afraid, not that Doug is a killer,
Speaker 3: but she thinks Doug might be a cop. But then
Speaker 3: she looks in the backseat and sees Carol, and she
Speaker 3: figures Caroll not a cop, maybe a come scout, dead mother,
Speaker 3: maybe a PTA pros than something like that. So she
Speaker 3: gets in the car. Doug gives her forty bucks, wants
Speaker 3: oral sex. Kathy goes to work. Carol's in the back seat.
Speaker 3: Now this you might wonder, when is Carol gonna get jealous?
Speaker 3: This is the moment when she gets jealous, and she's
Speaker 3: got a twenty two caliber pistol with her, so reaches
Speaker 3: over the back seat. She reaches over the back seat
Speaker 3: and puts one in Carol's head. Bam, puts it. Carol's
Speaker 3: with Doug at the time, right. You know, Kathy has
Speaker 3: never killed anyone. She is a nurse, so she knows what,
Speaker 3: you know, the human body looks like. But she's never
Speaker 3: actually seen somebody shot in the head. It doesn't understand
Speaker 3: the BackFlash that you get, you know. So there's blood
Speaker 3: and there's brains in their skull flying all over their car.
Speaker 3: The inside of the windshield is coated. Doug is upset.
Speaker 3: He can't believe that she did this, Carol or Kathy.
Speaker 4: Rather.
Speaker 3: The girl is still moving, so Carol's got to push
Speaker 3: the gun against her head one more time and shoot
Speaker 3: her one more time. There's blood that's all over the floor.
Speaker 3: It's just a total total mess. What are they going
Speaker 3: to do? You know, Doug's afraid she's gonna flip out
Speaker 3: to begin with her I should put that in there,
Speaker 3: but Carol assures him that I'm a nurse, Doug, you
Speaker 3: don't think I've seen worse than this. They take the
Speaker 3: body to a secluded area, like Doug's done before, leave
Speaker 3: her naked in the grass. He has sex it forced
Speaker 3: with the body before they go back home, and Carol
Speaker 3: figures that now they've got this bond, a bond that
Speaker 3: can never be broken. Carol and Doug.
Speaker 4: Let me ask this question. This will be important later.
Speaker 4: Despite that bonds that need she had called police. What
Speaker 4: happens when she does call police that first time?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the very first time. Now she's on the radio.
Speaker 3: She hears on the radio that a few girls have
Speaker 3: been killed. And this is the after Doug told her
Speaker 3: about the first two that he had killed the night
Speaker 3: they made love. She's driving to work and she's again
Speaker 3: on her way to a hospital and she hears this report,
Speaker 3: and she said, this is it. This is what she's
Speaker 3: got to call the police. She calls and gets stuck
Speaker 3: on the switchboard because that radio news report that she
Speaker 3: heard had unleashed so much interest in Los Angeles from
Speaker 3: people who thought they might have seen something or had
Speaker 3: some evidence to offer. The LAPD switchboard was just overwhelmed
Speaker 3: and she never did get through. You know, she was
Speaker 3: the one who had the information that they wanted, but
Speaker 3: she was never able to get through. This is before
Speaker 3: the days of the very efficient ninety one one systems,
Speaker 3: you know, this is before it in nineteen eighty. You know,
Speaker 3: we were really pretty backward in terms of communication back
Speaker 3: in those days.
Speaker 4: Now, back to this murderous couple, and Carol, in her
Speaker 4: bid to have Dug all to herself, you also talk
Speaker 4: about this bizarre need that he couldn't have sex without
Speaker 4: that skull.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so he.
Speaker 4: Was tired of her, and despite what she tried to
Speaker 4: do for him and offered him, he was bored. So
Speaker 4: that keeping in mind, what does Carol decide to do.
Speaker 3: Carol decides to go next door to a neighbor's house
Speaker 3: where an eleven year old girl lives. And remember that
Speaker 3: she was forced to have sex with her father. She
Speaker 3: was about eleven years old at the time. She gets
Speaker 3: this eleven year old girl and coerces her, convinces her
Speaker 3: to join she and Doug in bed. This is the
Speaker 3: only way the Doug will consent to have sex with
Speaker 3: her is if this eleven year old is in bed
Speaker 3: with them last for a while. I mean, this is
Speaker 3: how sick these people got. I mean, I can't think
Speaker 3: of another way to put it, but this is how
Speaker 3: bad it gets. But actually it gets even worse. It
Speaker 3: gets even worse Carol. After a while, even the eleven
Speaker 3: year old doesn't work anymore. Carol knows that Doug is
Speaker 3: playing around with him on her, or rather cheating on her,
Speaker 3: she decides to go back to our favorite country singer
Speaker 3: Jack Murray for help. Remember they had a relationship way back.
Speaker 3: When she goes to the bar and tries to get
Speaker 3: Jack to help her, she wants to talk to him.
Speaker 3: She says, let's go out in your van and talk
Speaker 3: after you get done. The van's parked in the parking
Speaker 3: lot of this bar, little Nashville bar. Jack figures that
Speaker 3: she's going to want to do something else besides just
Speaker 3: talk to him, and that'll be part of the deal
Speaker 3: as far as he's concerned. Well, she's pretty disgusted by
Speaker 3: her the attitude that he expects to have sex with her.
Speaker 3: She wants to talk to him as a friend. She
Speaker 3: realizes now that he's not a friend, that he only
Speaker 3: sees her as a sex object. So guess what she's
Speaker 3: got in her purse? That same gun that she killed
Speaker 3: the girl with, and she puts it to Jack's head
Speaker 3: and kills him. But that's not enough. She is not
Speaker 3: enough just to shoot him in the head and kill him.
Speaker 3: She's also got a knife, a big knife in her purse.
Speaker 3: She takes it out and stabs him repeatedly in the van.
Speaker 3: Then she parrots mimics what Doug tatter to do. She
Speaker 3: cuts off his head, puts it in a big purse
Speaker 3: and goes away. She leaves the shellcasings from the bullet
Speaker 3: in the van. She leaves Jack's body in the van
Speaker 3: on one of the hottest nights of the year in
Speaker 3: Los Angeles. And this is a Saturday night. The bar
Speaker 3: doesn't open again until Tuesday, so nobody is going to
Speaker 3: see this van for a couple of days in the
Speaker 3: hot sun. So Jack's decapitated body, shot stabbed, decapitated body.
Speaker 3: He's going to sit in this hot van a metal oven,
Speaker 3: if you will, for several days. The smell gets soaked.
Speaker 3: Now she goes home and pulls Jack's head out of
Speaker 3: the perth, like look what I did, honey, and Doug
Speaker 3: flips out. He goes, are you crazy? Are you that dumb?
Speaker 3: You know? Carol says no, Wait, I didn't leave anything behind.
Speaker 3: The bullets are still on the head of twenty two.
Speaker 3: There's no exit. Will says yea of the shellcasings. You
Speaker 3: left the shell casings behind, You left your fingerprints behind,
Speaker 3: You left all of that in the van. Well, while
Speaker 3: there arguing, the body is cooking in the van. The
Speaker 3: smell gets so bad that the LAPD is called and
Speaker 3: they respond with the Hazardous Materials team. That's how bad
Speaker 3: it is. They go in there, they find the body.
Speaker 3: They notice that there's some similarities to the killings of
Speaker 3: the prostitutes, but there's differences too, like, for instance, it's
Speaker 3: a man instead of a woman. And also the head cut,
Speaker 3: you know, cutting off of the head that decapitation is
Speaker 3: really ragged compared to the other way. The other way,
Speaker 3: the way Doug did it was almost surgical, but Carol
Speaker 3: doesn't have the strength in her shoulders and her forearms
Speaker 3: don't have you to actually do the whole cut, so
Speaker 3: it's a very very ragged, ragged cut. So they know
Speaker 3: they've got probably two killers here, but they're wondering if
Speaker 3: there could be you know, some similarity. Yeah, now, well, Doug,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 4: Carol again have felt the need to call police, and
Speaker 4: then unfortunately she was not able to be able to
Speaker 4: talk to them at all because of the snaff foo
Speaker 4: with the operator. But thus Carol still needs a friend
Speaker 4: to talk to. Jack Murray wasn't the person. She has
Speaker 4: another boyfriend ex boyfriend named Richard, and she also is
Speaker 4: a nurse. At work, So tell us, yeah, tell us
Speaker 4: the kind of stories that she tells to these people, how.
Speaker 3: Much Richard she talks. She talks to Richard first and
Speaker 3: tells him everything. Now they're in a class together, a
Speaker 3: creative writing class at the local community college. She tells
Speaker 3: Richard everything, she lays it out. But then she realizes
Speaker 3: even Carol's got this rationality about her, says, no, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, I can't have him, but tell you. So
Speaker 3: she convinces him, But actually it was all a fantasy.
Speaker 3: That she was just laying out the plot for a
Speaker 3: new story that she wanted to write. And Richard said, okay,
Speaker 3: I believe her. Well, now what happened was after she
Speaker 3: killed Jack, they didn't make the relationship with Doug any better.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, it made it worse. She
Speaker 3: was really fed up, but she had to talk to someone,
Speaker 3: like you, say, Dan, So she talked to her co
Speaker 3: workers and she told them everything. Now, she and her
Speaker 3: co workers were not friends. They did not get along
Speaker 3: at all. But you know, if you're at work and
Speaker 3: somebody starts talking gossip, you're gonna sit there and listen,
Speaker 3: especially if it's something as sensational as this. And she
Speaker 3: laid it all out to the people at the Valley
Speaker 3: Medical Center. She did try to call police, but again
Speaker 3: she couldn't get through the switchboard operator. But after she
Speaker 3: goes out for lunch, her co workers who heard this
Speaker 3: story realize that it's more than just gossip. You know.
Speaker 3: They always wondered how this plain, punchy woman could get
Speaker 3: so many men even though she was a slut, But
Speaker 3: now this kind of wraps it all up. They've got
Speaker 3: a serial killer in their midst. This is more than
Speaker 3: just juicy gossip. They called her LAPD, and the LAPD
Speaker 3: entered their call, and they go out and the LAPD
Speaker 3: shows up at the medical facility. They see that Carroll's
Speaker 3: gone to lunch, so they go to her house at
Speaker 3: the same time. You know, they told her the people
Speaker 3: of the Valley Medical told them about Doug, so they're
Speaker 3: going to where Doug works too. But a squad car
Speaker 3: with uniforms gets to Carroll's house first, or her apartment rather,
Speaker 3: and then detectives will follow. Now she's got uniforms in
Speaker 3: the house, she's got detectives in the house, and she
Speaker 3: lays it all out to them. She is more than
Speaker 3: happy to talk to them to get this off of
Speaker 3: her mind. But she also, since you know, she's pretty
Speaker 3: much confessed to everybody and she has all these men
Speaker 3: in the house, she says, hey, come on in, you know,
Speaker 3: she smiles, she's happy. She offers them coffee, and then
Speaker 3: she offers them sex. She says she'd be more than
Speaker 3: happy to have sex with any one of them or
Speaker 3: all of them together, right then and there, because she
Speaker 3: tells them she knows she's going to go to prison,
Speaker 3: probably for the rest of her life, and never have
Speaker 3: a man again. The officers of the law politely declined
Speaker 3: in the offer. Yeah, they read her her rights, They
Speaker 3: handcuff her, They walked her out to the squad car,
Speaker 3: and you know, in the squad car, then she hears
Speaker 3: the radio talk with other cars where the police are
Speaker 3: saying they've just arrested Doug. And she sits there and smiles.
Speaker 3: She feels like he spent a good day for Carol.
Speaker 3: They found with Doug and her information, you know, just
Speaker 3: the heads, the heads of his victims were not the
Speaker 3: only trophies he had. He had panties, He had the guns.
Speaker 3: You know, he never swapped guns. He never liked on
Speaker 3: TV the bad guy always throw the gun away. He
Speaker 3: never threw the guns away. He had two twenty five
Speaker 3: caliber Raven automatic pistols stashed in the boiler room where
Speaker 3: he worked. He had panties of his victims stashed away.
Speaker 3: Between Carol and what Carol had told the people in
Speaker 3: Valley Medical and what they learned from Jack's co workers,
Speaker 3: they got all the information they needed. They had all
Speaker 3: the evidence they needed, the trophies, the story, everything. Then
Speaker 3: it got down to in the trial, you know, Carol
Speaker 3: versus Jack, who are you going to believe? Because Jack
Speaker 3: said it was all Carol's idea. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: he said, her name's Carol Bundy. She told me that
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy was her brother, or they were related at
Speaker 3: a race, you know, so you know, they're just both
Speaker 3: playing these games. Carol decides to look take for a
Speaker 3: middle class housewife role to heart, and that's how she
Speaker 3: appears in the courtroom. She's trying to play on the
Speaker 3: sympathy of the jury. But while she's in her cell,
Speaker 3: she takes the time if she gets a penel an inmate,
Speaker 3: a guy who's in the same jail, a jail rather
Speaker 3: and does all kinds of sexual things through the mail
Speaker 3: to interest him. I mean, she never is able to
Speaker 3: turn off this need. She has this incredible thirst she
Speaker 3: has for men, for love.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you write that she died in prison at sixty
Speaker 4: one years of age in two thousand and three. She
Speaker 4: had found religion, found god. And Doug, you say at
Speaker 4: writing you say he might be a few years ago
Speaker 4: he was still alive. He may be passed away now.
Speaker 3: You see, you know, as far as I know, he
Speaker 3: is still alive. I double checked on that before we
Speaker 3: went to before we started recording. He is still alive
Speaker 3: in San Quentin on death row, and he says to
Speaker 3: this day he's never forgiven Carol. He says, Carrol is
Speaker 3: quote a government rated a lying bitch who you know
Speaker 3: just just you know, rated him out and he just
Speaker 3: cannot stand her. He's a lonely old man, long gray
Speaker 3: hair and eyepatch. But he says, really it's not so
Speaker 3: terrible after all, because Doug says, I amazon kind of person,
Speaker 3: after all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, we have time for to discuss one more
Speaker 4: story out of the twelve. So let's go to Kalamazoo
Speaker 4: County Sheriff Jim Harrison, and he's driving a squad car
Speaker 4: tell us about Jason Brian Dalton and This Day tell
Speaker 4: us about Kalamazoo, Michigan and Jason Brian Dalton.
Speaker 3: Jim, Kalamazoo, Michigan is a middle size city, well smaller,
Speaker 3: it's in the top one hundred. That's kind of a
Speaker 3: middle sized city that really has a small town attitude.
Speaker 3: It's not that everybody knows everybody, but everybody knows somebody
Speaker 3: who knows somebody. Okay, let me put it that way.
Speaker 3: In February twenty it's twenty sixteen. Jim Harrison, are Kalamazoo
Speaker 3: County Share of Sergeant, is in his car and he
Speaker 3: hears nine to one one operators are going wild. Somebody
Speaker 3: is driving around Kalamazoo shooting people. This just does not
Speaker 3: happen in Kalamazoo, Michigan. It's halfway between Detroit and Chicago,
Speaker 3: and it has its share of time. There's no doubt
Speaker 3: about that. But something like this, I mean, what's does
Speaker 3: and what it turns out to be is Jason Dalton,
Speaker 3: an uber driver who again this is another guy who
Speaker 3: he did have a temper. People will say later that
Speaker 3: he did have a temper, need a lot of guns.
Speaker 3: He's driving around killing people. He's shooting people, and he
Speaker 3: says he will say later that it's his app, his
Speaker 3: uber app on his iPhone, that is the devil that's
Speaker 3: telling him who to shoot and who to let live.
Speaker 3: Winds up shooting, killing six people. He kills a father
Speaker 3: and son at a car dealership. He kills four women
Speaker 3: in a van. Two other people are shot, a twenty
Speaker 3: five year old girl, a twenty five year old woman
Speaker 3: rather and a fourteen year old girl. Both of them survived,
Speaker 3: but both of them survived with horrific injuries. The police
Speaker 3: did capture Dalton, Jason Dalton. They cornered him in downtown Kalamazoo.
Speaker 3: He gets out of the car. He says, finally it's over.
Speaker 3: He felt like he was back to reality. He said,
Speaker 3: you know that spell that France, whatever it was that
Speaker 3: had possessed him, was over. He felt like it was
Speaker 3: all done. He waved his Miranda rights and told them everything.
Speaker 3: He confessed. Now. One of the women who was shot,
Speaker 3: a twenty five year old. She is in just her
Speaker 3: She had both legs broken by the bullets, both steamers
Speaker 3: broken left and the right steamers were broken, and she
Speaker 3: shot another time. She took three or four shots. She
Speaker 3: was just she had a carruthers was just shot terribly.
Speaker 3: She had to hide under a car and pretend to
Speaker 3: be dead while this guy was pumping bullets into her.
Speaker 3: At the same time, children are everywhere. This was happening
Speaker 3: in the playground of an apartment complex, and so she
Speaker 3: used her body before she crawled under the car to
Speaker 3: shield the children so that they were able to run away.
Speaker 3: She survived. Both of her legs I say were broken.
Speaker 3: Her left arm was not just broken, shattered by a bullet.
Speaker 3: Another girl, Abigail cough Now she was in the car
Speaker 3: and the van with the four women who were shot Togeth.
Speaker 3: She was shot in the head. She was rushed to
Speaker 3: a hospital in downtown Kalamazoo. Her parents came. They were
Speaker 3: shot in the van shooting. The van was parked at
Speaker 3: a cracker barrel restaurant in Kalamazoo. Ironically, Abigail's parents were
Speaker 3: at a cracker barrel restaurant in Battle Creek about an
Speaker 3: hour away. They go back into town at Kalamazoo, downtown
Speaker 3: Kalamazoo with like ninety miles an hour, racing to find
Speaker 3: out what happened to their daughter. When they get there,
Speaker 3: her daughter, Abigail is on life support. Doctors say there
Speaker 3: is no hope. She's been shot in the head. There
Speaker 3: is no hope at all. They have her on life support.
Speaker 3: Her mother reaches out to Abigail sits beside her. She's
Speaker 3: holding her hand. They're ready to harvest the organs, and
Speaker 3: her mother is saying goodbye for the last time to
Speaker 3: her daughter. Abigail's finger twitches, her pinky finger twitches, then
Speaker 3: her other fingers start moving. They grasp and hold onto
Speaker 3: her mother's hand in just the way that they always
Speaker 3: held hands. And then Abigail uses one finger to trace
Speaker 3: the or trace the letter B into her mother's hand.
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, her mother is alive. I mean,
Speaker 3: her daughter is alive. She was that close to death,
Speaker 3: that close to going to the operating table and having
Speaker 3: her organs donated, harvested rather and then donated, and she
Speaker 3: was alive. This is a girl who came back from
Speaker 3: the dead. Abigail coughed and she's still alive today. Life
Speaker 3: isn't easy. Her mother, Vicki, says, she's getting along as
Speaker 3: best she can, but she's had several operations. She has
Speaker 3: a plastic plate in her head that's had to be
Speaker 3: replaced at least once. She has some metal that taking
Speaker 3: up the space of brain that she lost in the shooting.
Speaker 3: But he's alive and Jason Dalton went to trial. It
Speaker 3: was a horrific trial. This guy was just crazy in
Speaker 3: the courtroom. There's no other way to put it. I mean,
Speaker 3: outbursts like you wouldn't believe. They had to hold him down,
Speaker 3: they had to take him out of the court. Witnesses,
Speaker 3: I mean, Tiana who was shot, just collapsed on Dan sobbing.
Speaker 3: She was scared to death of this guy. Then one
Speaker 3: day in January, he walks into the courtroom against the
Speaker 3: advice of his attorney and confesses to everything. He said,
Speaker 3: I did it. You know, I confessed. He confessed, Rather,
Speaker 3: he confessed to the whole thing. But he never said
Speaker 3: he was sorry. He never showed any remorse at all.
Speaker 3: And Carruthers after the confession in court, she posted on
Speaker 3: social media, you at least owe everyone a reason. This
Speaker 3: isn't closure, not even close. Laurie Smith's mother of Richard
Speaker 3: Smith and Tyler Smith, the father and son who were
Speaker 3: killed at a car dealership by Jason. She said, I
Speaker 3: feel in a way that we got robbed, like he
Speaker 3: took the coward's way out. I truly believed that he
Speaker 3: wanted to save his family from knowing the details and
Speaker 3: he didn't want to stick through it. But I've never
Speaker 3: heard him say Salary, never saw a tear, and I
Speaker 3: feel we got robbed.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The more interesting aspects of this, besides this incredible
Speaker 4: story you mentioned regarding person that came back to life,
Speaker 4: was also that as an Uber driver, this Jason Brian
Speaker 4: Dalton had picked up a guy named Matt Mellan and
Speaker 4: luckily this person was dropped off. So again with the police,
Speaker 4: it's a similar story. What does he do regarding the
Speaker 4: police and what's the police reaction to his story?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt Mellan, he said Jason was driving crazy. I
Speaker 3: mean Matt Mellan was like begging, demanding, pleading to get
Speaker 3: out of the car because Jason was driving over curbs,
Speaker 3: he was driving making you Terrence, He's just going nuts
Speaker 3: in the car, and Matt said, you've got to let
Speaker 3: me out, just let me out. And finally he says
Speaker 3: in the app, the app did not say to him, okay,
Speaker 3: the app said to let him go. At least that
Speaker 3: was Jason's story. So he basically kicks him out of
Speaker 3: the car. Matt starts calling the police. Now nine operators
Speaker 3: are starting to get calls because this happened after Tianaker
Speaker 3: Butthers was shot in the apartment complex parking lot or
Speaker 3: on the playground. I mean, so they're starting to get calls.
Speaker 3: But again they're saying, Okay, he didn't hurt you, right,
Speaker 3: he just was a bad driver, so you jumped out,
Speaker 3: you know, what's the crime? Sorry, but this is not
Speaker 3: a nine to one one call. You did not have
Speaker 3: an emergency. Well, you know, thinking back, you know, twenty
Speaker 3: twenty hindsight, right, if they had only known then what
Speaker 3: they know now, maybe they could have stopped him before
Speaker 3: he went into that cracker barrel restaurant parking lot and
Speaker 3: shot those four women to death and wounded so horrifically,
Speaker 3: young Abigail cop.
Speaker 4: You talk about the other phone calls as well. There
Speaker 4: was Tyler Smith and Tyler Smith's father Richard, was shot,
Speaker 4: but Alexis witnessed the whole thing but really was unscathed
Speaker 4: out the other thing that she called nine to one
Speaker 4: one as well. But one of the other interesting ones
Speaker 4: was another passenger and the conversation he has with Dalton
Speaker 4: tell us about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're in downtown Kalamazoo and Jason picks them up
Speaker 3: and the passenger says, now this is when everybody. Now
Speaker 3: you have to remember, this is on the radio stations,
Speaker 3: the TV. There's one TV station in town in Kalamazoo,
Speaker 3: another in Battle Creek. There's one station in Kalamazoo that's
Speaker 3: a news station, w k's ill and they're all over.
Speaker 3: Everybody's talking about this. This is again on you know,
Speaker 3: running on the crawls on the TV stream, so everybody
Speaker 3: in town knows about this guy comes out of a bar.
Speaker 3: He called Uber because they needed a ride after having
Speaker 3: a few drinks. He opens up the door into Jason's
Speaker 3: car and it says, hey, you're not that Uber driver
Speaker 3: driving around shooting people? Are you? And Jason? You know?
Speaker 3: And luckily for this guy again, the Uber app or
Speaker 3: whatever did not tell Jason to kill him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Incredible. These are just four of twelve shocking true
Speaker 4: crime stories I know that you have. We covered who
Speaker 4: killed Brittany Drexel, and we covered we covered the sexual killing.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about just briefly, tell us the other stories
Speaker 4: that you have in this collection.
Speaker 3: Okay, we have a lover's game. Now, this is another
Speaker 3: story two people. You never think what this would happen
Speaker 3: to the one guy. A guy picks up a girl,
Speaker 3: a woman, young woman. They go to a motel together
Speaker 3: for sex. They decide to play a game. What she
Speaker 3: wants to do. Her fantasy is to have him hold
Speaker 3: a gun against her head while they're having sex. He
Speaker 3: takes it's a forty five CALIBERT semi automatic. He takes
Speaker 3: the magazine out, but he forgets to take the bullet
Speaker 3: out of the chamber. He had already wrapped one into
Speaker 3: the chamber. He forgot to take it out of the chamber.
Speaker 3: They're having sex. He pulls the trigger and shoots her
Speaker 3: in the head, kills her dead. He's busted on felony manslaughter.
Speaker 3: Then we've got the electrocuted lover. A man and a
Speaker 3: woman who well, now this is another one where you
Speaker 3: have to decide who you're going to believe. The man
Speaker 3: says that they got into electricity during sex, that it
Speaker 3: improved their sex. Police said, now wait a minute, you
Speaker 3: know the evidence shows that you electrocuted your wife in
Speaker 3: the bathtub and then moved your body out. He was
Speaker 3: busted for that. One of my favorite stories in this book, though,
Speaker 3: is true love too late? This is a woman the
Speaker 3: story of a woman in Vienna, a well known, a
Speaker 3: well thought of business woman. She owned an ice cream problem.
Speaker 3: She's got an ex husband. He lives in her apartment
Speaker 3: even though they're divorced. She can't get him to leave. Well,
Speaker 3: this guy has a lot of guns. She grabs one
Speaker 3: of them, walks up behind it, shoots some dead.
Speaker 4: Problem.
Speaker 3: What do you do with the body? Now? Again, she
Speaker 3: is somebody who's seen a lot of true crime shows
Speaker 3: on TV. Probably, She figures she'll burn the body. She
Speaker 3: drags it downstairs, out into the alley, burns the body,
Speaker 3: but only singes it. She doesn't really know. She understands
Speaker 3: now how tough it is to burn a body. What
Speaker 3: she gonna do? She drags it into a shed, gets
Speaker 3: a shansaw, cuts it up, does all that. What do
Speaker 3: you do with the body parts? She's gonna take them
Speaker 3: down into the basement under her ice cream parlor. She
Speaker 3: but so. Then she goes through a local like do
Speaker 3: at yourself hardware store, thanks a couple of classes and
Speaker 3: how to mix cements, goes back to the shed, to
Speaker 3: the basement. Now she's got the body parts in the basement.
Speaker 3: She mixes the cement, puts the body parts in the cement,
Speaker 3: pushes it to the back of the basement. This is
Speaker 3: like an old cellar, not really a basement, but a cellar.
Speaker 3: And then she gets you know those little things you
Speaker 3: hang from your mirror to deordorize your car. She hangs
Speaker 3: those all over the baby. She hangs those all over
Speaker 3: the basement so that the smell won't get out. Gets
Speaker 3: another guy. She gets another guy, figures this guy's cheating
Speaker 3: on her, shoots him dead. Now she's better at disposing
Speaker 3: of bodies now, so she cuts him up with a
Speaker 3: chaince off, puts him in the cement, all the body parts,
Speaker 3: and puts those body parts into the basement. So now
Speaker 3: she's got two bodies in parts and cement in her basement,
Speaker 3: and puts another three more deodorizers up there. She meets
Speaker 3: the third guy. This is the perfect guy. This is
Speaker 3: like a Goldilocks almost in the you the three bowls
Speaker 3: of porridge. She finds the perfect guy. They are in love,
Speaker 3: and you know what else, she's pregnant. Everything's going great,
Speaker 3: but then the plumbing breaks. The plumbers have to go
Speaker 3: into the basement to fix the plumbing. Oh, she knows
Speaker 3: this is not going to end well. They find the
Speaker 3: bodies of the body parts. She runs, police find her.
Speaker 3: You know she's in prison. She'd go into jail now.
Speaker 3: This is why I call it true love too late.
Speaker 3: Not only did she find the guy and she loves,
Speaker 3: she gave birth to a beautiful baby. She found true love.
Speaker 3: The guy's parents are raising the baby. She'll be in
Speaker 3: prison for the rest of her life. As a matter
Speaker 3: of fact, the other prisoners are a little bit afraid
Speaker 3: of her. But she found true love, just found it
Speaker 3: too late. We've also got a mother's heartbreak, the story
Speaker 3: of a guy and in a relationship with a woman
Speaker 3: who just was wrong. Sleeping with the Devil, which is
Speaker 3: the story of two people in England. A famous story
Speaker 3: this is Ian Brady and Myra Hanley, who were killing children.
Speaker 3: Sealed with the Kill is a story of two nurses'
Speaker 3: aids in Grand Rapids, Michigan, who decided to kill their patients,
Speaker 3: elderly women. They would strangle them, smother them in bed
Speaker 3: and kill them one by one. They were trying to
Speaker 3: spell out the word murder with the initials of these people.
Speaker 3: They're victims. They finally turned on each other though, when
Speaker 3: they actually a third woman came into, a young nurse
Speaker 3: by the name of Robin, and they both fell in
Speaker 3: love with her, and that kind of busted their little
Speaker 3: relationship apart. Then we also have Mommy deadli as a
Speaker 3: woman in Georgia, and way I like to describe this one,
Speaker 3: danias every time she and her husband Earl fought, he
Speaker 3: would run off to his gay lover Stanley, and one
Speaker 3: of their children would die. The lady said that Martha
Speaker 3: said that really it was just bad luck, but Earl
Speaker 3: and Stanley figured it had to be something else because
Speaker 3: it happened every time they would take the kids to
Speaker 3: the hospital where they were pronounced dead. This is back
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty again when Sid's Southern into Depth syndrome
Speaker 3: was a real big thing. The hospitals did not have
Speaker 3: computers that didn't talk to each other. They'd talk to
Speaker 3: each other what they do today, So there was nobody
Speaker 3: saw the commonality of all of these cases. Well, Earl
Speaker 3: and Stanley refused to give up. They found a reporter
Speaker 3: at the Atlanta General Constitution who was willing to listen
Speaker 3: to them, and then they found a cop who was
Speaker 3: willing to listen to them too. Now, this cop, this
Speaker 3: became an obsession with him. He even put a cassette recorder,
Speaker 3: a voice activated to set recorder behind the tombstone of
Speaker 3: one of the dead children, figuring that Martha Ann would
Speaker 3: confess or would talk to the to talk to the children,
Speaker 3: you know, And and that's exactly what happened. He got
Speaker 3: that from her, than grabbed her, pulled her in, and
Speaker 3: you know, she wound up confessing. But again this is
Speaker 3: true love too late as well, because actually before she
Speaker 3: was arrested, she actually did find a guy who really
Speaker 3: loved her and didn't have a boyfriend. But it was
Speaker 3: again a story of true love too late.
Speaker 4: M you also have the devil made him do it,
Speaker 4: and we we spoke about that with dulphin right absolutely
Speaker 4: with the twelve Shocking True Crime Stories murder. You also
Speaker 4: have a website for people that might want to take
Speaker 4: a look at other work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, thanks it www Rodcackley dot com. That's r
Speaker 3: O D K A c k l e y dot com.
Speaker 3: And on my blog I regularly post true crime stories.
Speaker 3: For instance, I touched down the one. One of the
Speaker 3: most recent stories is that guy who killed Frankie Calli,
Speaker 3: the Gambino Godfather, and what happened there, And you know,
Speaker 3: it turns out that actually it seems like he killed
Speaker 3: him because they had a problem with a woman, not
Speaker 3: because he was a member of another family who was
Speaker 3: after you know, it wasn't as like a John Gottie
Speaker 3: Pulse Vestry kind of a thing. But you'll find different
Speaker 3: crime stories on my website as well as book specials
Speaker 3: and that kind of thing. It's Rodcackley dot com.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Rod, it's been a pleasure talking
Speaker 4: about your book Murder Twelve Shocking True Crime Stories. They
Speaker 4: certainly are twelve shocking true crime stories. I want to
Speaker 4: thank you very much for this interview. Hope to talk
Speaker 4: to you again soon. Thank you very much, Rod, You
Speaker 4: have a great evening.
Speaker 3: You're welcome, Dannis. Thank you. I appreciate it as well.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Good night.