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Are you feeling lucky? 22 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:58.679 No, we're just necessariyod where we're gont my long eighteen 23 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.600 plus terms and conditions plus se webs loop host Radio. 24 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:15.280 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 25 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.400 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:26.040 written about them. Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week, 27 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:30.040 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 28 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.120 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:38.400 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:50.480 Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 31 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.680 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime 32 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.920 history and the authors that have written about them. Richard 33 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.879 and Victoria Tynes worst when their thirteen year old daughter, 34 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.840 Kelly Ann, vanished from their quiet suburban community of Valley Stream, 35 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:10.159 New York, on March third, nineteen eighty nine. But the 36 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.080 nightmare to come was worse than they could ever imagine. 37 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:15.840 Only five doors away, in the home of John and 38 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.800 Elizabeth Gallub, police found Kelly Ann's body stuffed in a 39 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:24.800 plastic garbage bag. She'd been brutally beaten, stabbed, strangled, and mutilated. 40 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.719 After weeks of intense investigation, police arrested the Gallub's twenty 41 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:33.120 one year old son, Robert, a reclusive young man obsessed 42 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:37.759 with bodybuilding and given to fits of rage. The sensational 43 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.120 trial and subsequent conviction of Robert Gallub shocked the nation 44 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:45.560 and tore the once peaceful community apart. Neighbors took sides, 45 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.120 so did the media, and no one who lived on 46 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:51.759 Horton Road would ever be the same. Acclaimed journalist Ronald J. 47 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.639 Watkins takes you into the dark heart and the idyllic 48 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.599 American suburb where the savage murder of a young girl 49 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:03.479 shattered the innocence of a town forever. The book this 50 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:06.159 evening that we'll be discussing is Against Her Will by 51 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:11.039 Ronald J. Watkins, And hopefully Ronald J. Watkins is ready 52 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:14.319 on the phone, but we don't have Ronald J. Watkins, 53 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.159 so we have a problem. So anyway, that's the outline 54 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:23.879 of the book, Against Her Will. Very well written, very 55 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:28.120 fast paced, lots of twists and turns, no foregone conclusions 56 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.120 in this book whatsoever. Ronald J. Watkins is an author 57 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:36.080 of I believe thirty books, not all of them true crime, 58 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:39.879 some I guess fictional crime novels, but he has done 59 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:41.759 a fair amount of true crime as well, and this 60 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:47.400 book is an excellent read. Against Her Will by Ronald J. Watkins. 61 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:52.120 I apologize for the confusion on last week's program with 62 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:57.039 Wensley Clarkson. I did not realize that Wensley Clarkson resided 63 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:02.479 in London. I don't know, not to blame anyone, but 64 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.080 in my emails, I'm very clear that the guests need 65 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:09.199 to call into a New Jersey number or a US 66 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.599 number to be able in order to facilitate this interview, 67 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.439 as do I as well. We both call into a 68 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:19.600 number I believe in New Jersey and that's the main switchboard, 69 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.519 and that's the way these interviews are facilitated. Now, people 70 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.240 living in London. If I were to know that, and 71 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:29.759 they were to realize that this is the call they 72 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:32.199 need to make is into a US number, then that 73 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:38.399 long distance call might be quite prohibitive. So my apologies 74 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.959 for not finding out where he was residing. I just 75 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.680 assumed he was an American author since he was published 76 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:50.800 by Kensington Press, and most of those authors reside in America, 77 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:57.079 not all of them, obviously, so I'm not sure if 78 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.560 he is a former resident of the US. But regardless, 79 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:04.079 I apologized for last week's scheduled interview with Wensley Clarkson 80 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:08.920 with his excellent book A Child's Prey. Hopefully we may 81 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:12.720 have him on at another time, but I'm not sure 82 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:17.040 of that. We are still looking to get confirmation. I 83 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.279 believe that Terry Sullivan, the prosecutor for Killer Clown, is 84 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.360 still scheduled to come on the program, but he was 85 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.040 and is very heavily involved in the Casey Anthony case, 86 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.439 and I'm sure he would like to speak to people 87 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:35.240 about that case as well. So that case seems to 88 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:41.439 be going on and is quite lengthy. And have had 89 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:45.319 one guest talk about the Casey Anthony case with her book, 90 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:50.360 Diane Fanning, So we have covered that case so far, 91 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:53.240 but now they're in the trial that was the first book. 92 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:56.600 It was very quite odd that I found where there 93 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:01.079 had not been a actual conviction or allusion to the trial, 94 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:05.240 and yet there was still a book out published already 95 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:10.759 which based on speculation more than obviously the conclusion to 96 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.279 a trial or from a conviction or some other conclusion 97 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:17.360 to that trial, like I had said. So it was 98 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:21.639 quite an interesting development because Kensington, as I know, has 99 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.319 a rule of not dealing or publishing or wanting to 100 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:27.879 deal with cases that have not had a resolution in 101 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.120 the courts. So I would think that that would be 102 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.600 probably a general rule, and it seems to be. If 103 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.560 there is anything that is happening that a lot of 104 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:44.439 cases that receive the immediate television coverage, for example on 105 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:48.959 Fox or CNN. I think what the publishers are responding 106 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.839 to is that people will focus on a certain case 107 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:55.800 for a certain period of time, but then that case 108 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.800 and that subsequent interest but will be replaced by another 109 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.920 case that will replace that one, usually more dramatic or 110 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:09.240 more salacious or more sensational than the previous one, and 111 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:14.120 then we seem to forget some of the cases, incredible cases, 112 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:19.639 incredible crimes, and incredible stories. So I think what the 113 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:24.240 publishers are trying to do is capitalize on that interest 114 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.360 at the time that people are still interested in, capitalize 115 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:32.399 on that and put out their book at that time 116 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.680 rather than waiting because sometimes they can be considerable time 117 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.879 between arrests and convictions for various reasons, and people tend 118 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.920 not to have long memories. I apologize for not having 119 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.639 my guest Ronald J. Watkins on the line. Sometimes the 120 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:55.879 Central Standard time that I am in the zone I'm 121 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.680 in is confusing to some people. Again, I'm going to 122 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.759 make it a standard to convert the time so that 123 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:09.399 they know exactly in their time zone what time they 124 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.920 are to call the program. Sometimes there are legitimate delays. 125 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.040 I'm asking for these very very busy journalists and authors 126 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:23.720 and sometimes lawyers and people with law practices and investigative 127 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:28.560 companies to take out of their crowded schedule to come 128 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.959 on my program for an hour and talk about their books. 129 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.960 So I really do appreciate the time that they do 130 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.120 put forth to be able to do these programs. And 131 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:44.240 I apologize for those that tuned into the program to 132 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:48.639 listen to a live program with an author that they 133 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.240 had already saw the show description and we're anticipating an 134 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.200 interview with that author, so we'll all if you can 135 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.000 put up with me for a little bit, we'll just wait. 136 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.120 And I've sent an email to and maybe he's just 137 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:03.519 a little bit behind, and I'm hoping he will join 138 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:06.000 us very soon and we can talk about his book 139 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:10.960 that I'm prepared to discuss very again well written book. 140 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:15.240 A lot of true crime is there's varying degrees of writers, 141 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.799 and I find that in my experience that a lot 142 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:21.879 of writers that are as Ronald Jay Watkins demonstrates in 143 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:26.279 his book his vast experience even writing the thirty Books 144 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:32.399 gives him a expertise of sorts, but also his background, 145 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:38.279 investigative background, and so he is really I think brings 146 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.840 that to the book itself and to his writing, and 147 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:43.919 so you have a very detailed book. But at the 148 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:46.679 same time, there is so many He's picked a great 149 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:51.279 story and with his access, there's so many twists in 150 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:56.000 turns that you virtually are It's very much like a 151 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.000 fictional story in the twists and turn and sitting on 152 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:02.720 the edge of your seat and some of the things 153 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:07.279 that you thought were foregone conclusions, so surprises and when 154 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:12.200 things are revealed, and very very good in characterizing and 155 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:17.679 drawing us into the characters and also painting a very 156 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.879 graphic picture of what this crime really entails, because many 157 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.039 murders are obviously there's no nice murder, and they're all 158 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.399 graphic and disturbing and horrible and terrible. But there are 159 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:37.480 some killers that for various reasons, when you're talking mutilation, 160 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:43.600 when you talk torture, when you talk you talk of 161 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:47.559 those kinds of crimes, when it's just not murdered, there 162 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:51.960 is much more. It's even more repulsive and disturbing and horrible. 163 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:55.679 And this murder has some of those elements, especially given 164 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.960 when you're talking about a relatively young man a que 165 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:04.120 of this murder, and we'll find out. Like I say, 166 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:08.159 it's amazing that there are no foregone conclusions in this book. 167 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:13.919 It's very interesting how it's constructed, but also how the 168 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:18.240 story on wines as well. What may look like a 169 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:21.919 fairly easy case to conclude isn't at all for very 170 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:26.080 good reasons. And so it's a very interesting take on 171 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:32.919 a case. And I hope we get Ronald On to 172 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.879 discuss it very soon. Anyway, next week, if you're going 173 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.720 to tune in again, I apologize for this slip up. 174 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:46.679 Next week, Ron Francell and he is the author of 175 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.840 many true crime books, including the classic The Darkest Night, 176 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:57.080 and his latest book is Delivered from Evil. And these 177 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:02.279 are tales from mass murderers, survivors of mass murders, people 178 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:06.240 who refuse to die, who had a survival instinct, people 179 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.960 that fought hard and long to survive and live to 180 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:15.080 tell the tale and were and have told the tale. 181 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:21.360 And Ron Francell, an excellent journalist and author, a best 182 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.840 selling author and a real favorite among true crime fans, 183 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:29.000 is going to do a book that's quite unique even 184 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:33.159 for him, and tackles a subject not really dealt with 185 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.559 too often at all. So it's a multiple it's a 186 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.320 many stories of different survivors, not just one survivor, of 187 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.799 different survivors of mass murder. And that book is called 188 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.159 Delivered from Evil, and that's Ron Francell've been very excited 189 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:49.039 to have him on. He is, like I say, a 190 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:54.519 big favorite among true crime readers and gets consistently great 191 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:59.679 reviews on True Crime book reviews and Amazon book reviews. 192 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:04.279 He's a big He's a great writer, and this story 193 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.840 sounds fascinating and I haven't started it yet, but I'm 194 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:15.120 looking forward to reading it starting tomorrow, and I'm sure 195 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.879 we'll have a great interview about his latest book, his 196 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:23.559 latest and greatest book, Delivered from Evil. After that, we 197 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:31.000 have let me see, we have Anthony D. Stefano and 198 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.799 he's going to be talking about King of the Godfathers, 199 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.720 so we talked. I talked about that a couple of 200 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.039 weeks ago. We're going to do a couple organized crime stories. 201 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:43.360 And then there's another veteran organized crime expert, Danny Griffin. 202 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.440 He has a show on blog talk radio as well, 203 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:48.240 and I want him to come on and talk about 204 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:51.919 the Vegas mob. It's not some mob stories that I 205 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.720 have read about myself, and so he has the inside 206 00:13:55.759 --> 00:14:01.039 scoop and the behind scenes story about vague mobsters. So 207 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:09.440 that's Denny Griffin, veteran journalist and veteran law enforcement officer, 208 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:13.000 person involved in the legal system, so he has a 209 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.639 vast experience as well in his take on the Las 210 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:23.720 Vegas mafia and mobsters. And after that we have Kevin Sullivan. 211 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.559 We're going to be talking about the Bundy murders. He's 212 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.639 written and done extensive research on further Bundy murders. One 213 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:34.320 of the most famous serial killers ever, certainly one of 214 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:42.399 the most interesting, charismatic and fascinating and infamous and deranged 215 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:46.080 serial killers of all time, Ted Bundy, and Kevin Sullivan 216 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.399 has written an amazing book talking about other crimes and 217 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.799 other things of interest to all people who may be 218 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.639 interested in ten but ten Bundy. Of course I've spoken 219 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:02.360 of this before. The definitive book about Ted Bundy is 220 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:07.240 obviously while I must read is The Stranger Beside Me 221 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.720 by and Rule a fantastic book, and probably the way 222 00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:13.279 I got hooked on true crime is by reading that book. 223 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.720 Now a major, major bestseller and one of the most 224 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.360 the biggest, probably in the top while it is in 225 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:22.120 the top five two crime books of all time and 226 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:27.039 Rules Stranger Beside Me. Kevin Sullivan has done this research 227 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:33.039 and provided much more information and a different different perspective 228 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.960 than Stranger Beside Me obviously, and Rule worked with Ted 229 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.919 Bundy and included all those feelings and all that interaction 230 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.960 and all that perspective, and Kevin Sullivan comes from a 231 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:49.639 completely different perspective to talk about Bundy murders, more and 232 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:57.559 new information, still very very shocking and essential must read 233 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.200 as well, because Bundy really does deserve as many books 234 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.519 as you're able to find on Ted Bundy, So that's 235 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:09.159 going to be fantastic. I have a couple more cases 236 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.399 as well that I'm gonna be talking about that I 237 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:16.679 just got turned onto as well, and one of those 238 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:23.200 is a woman named Jeanie mcdonna, and Jeanie McDonough and 239 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:32.440 her husband overpowered a killer that was about to slit 240 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.399 their daughter's throat, and it ended up the killer was 241 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:39.399 a serial killer who had killed a couple of other 242 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:43.679 women and attacked another one, So they ended up being 243 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:48.720 the reason they helped capture a serial killer. In their 244 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.559 book is called Caught in the Act and it's by 245 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:55.879 Genie mcdonaugh and paul I Hope. I don't get this wrong, 246 00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:01.039 but Lenardo. So anyway, that's going to be May eleventh, 247 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:04.599 that's going to be Genie McDonough, an excellent book from 248 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.920 again a different perspective to almost potential victims that fought 249 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:13.039 hard to overpower this killer and end up cracking the 250 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:18.640 case by their actions, saving their daughter and also capturing 251 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:23.160 a serial killer. And so the very heroic efforts. And 252 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.519 now we'll have a book that very very interesting perspective 253 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:31.880 of her husband and herself and another author talking about 254 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.039 how this happened and how they brought this serial killer 255 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.680 to justice. So that's Caught in the Act. I have 256 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:44.759 another book that I'm going to be discussing as well. 257 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:52.319 Kim Cantrell from True Crime Book Reviews introduced me to 258 00:17:52.759 --> 00:18:01.079 an author. It's about another serial killer. Let me see. 259 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:08.359 It is about Michael Griesbach or Greisbach. I'm not sure 260 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:11.400 how to pronounce this, but g r I E. S. 261 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:20.319 B Acch. This is the story of the serial killer. 262 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.759 I apologize for this, but anyway, it's about a serial 263 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:31.160 killer and the perspective of this author in finding and 264 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.039 having this the hunt for this serial killer and the 265 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:38.759 investigation into this serial killer. I apologize for not having 266 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:42.279 that title in front of me, but it's I will 267 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:45.359 get back to you. That's from May eighteenth. So there 268 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:47.960 are a lot of programs to look forward to in 269 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.960 the near future, and so stay tuned. And again I 270 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:57.680 apologize for this this step with this guest this evening, 271 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.440 and I just look and he's still not on the air. 272 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.079 So if anybody were to like to want to desire 273 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.079 to call in to give me any requests or ask 274 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:12.079 any questions about anything about my book Trophy Kill, or 275 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.079 about any other I'll tell me guests or any guests 276 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.400 that I've already interviewed. I have been getting some requests 277 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:24.640 for me to look into books that listeners have requested, 278 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:29.119 so I appreciate that, and again I will look into 279 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.079 those authors and see if they're available if they like 280 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.279 to come on the program. And I appreciate any ideas 281 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.119 on programs in the future concerning books that you have 282 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.640 read and you think will be great interviews for the 283 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:50.200 program itself. Now, what I also wanted to talk about too, 284 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.440 is that what I've said a couple of years ago, 285 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.519 and I've mentioned a couple of times when I've had 286 00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:58.200 the chance to editorialize here, is that what was interesting 287 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.319 to me is that I've see development in my idea 288 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:06.519 that true crime is going mainstream, especially television and to 289 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.759 a lesser degree, I guess Hollywood. My information was based 290 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:16.359 on watching The Zodiac and how big that movie was, 291 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.039 and also Capodi, and also that there was two movies 292 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:24.480 about Capodi and in Cold Blood. You know, of course, 293 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:28.119 In Cold Blood probably the biggest selling true crime book ever. 294 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:34.119 But what I'm finding is that we see some breakthroughs 295 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.720 with Kensington author, and she's published with other publishing companies 296 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:43.000 as well. But a well known true crime author, Aphrodite Jones, 297 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:48.599 has a program on ID Discovery Channel, and so that's 298 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:54.200 an interesting leap from true crime author to television. Another 299 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.279 author that was on my program, M William Phelps, has 300 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:01.720 made the leap as well, being involved in television. And 301 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:06.400 the program is still in the creative process, but they're 302 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.279 very well into it and it's going to be serial 303 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:13.240 killer stories, unsolved serial killer stories and I guess those 304 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:18.920 profiles and he'll be hosting and involved in the production 305 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.599 of this and involved in a big way in the 306 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.759 production of this and taking it from again, taking his 307 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:29.839 writing experience in true crime considerable experience, and putting this 308 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.400 and getting involved in making the crossover into mainstream or 309 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.839 at least television, which I'll expand an audience for again 310 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.279 this medium, I believe. What I did also see as 311 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.599 well as Corey Mitchell, another veteran true crime author, hosting 312 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:52.599 a panel at the south By Southwest Music indiean film 313 00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:00.799 festival in Texas. Austin, Texas, I believe, But anyway, the 314 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.519 south By Southwest, it's many years it's been running. Anyway, 315 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:07.559 he had a panel with people that again had a 316 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.680 background in true crime, who had made successful movies and 317 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.319 or television programs involving true crime and some of the 318 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.640 biggest true crime stories. And the gist of the panel was, 319 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:20.680 and this was just a couple of weeks ago, is 320 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:23.240 that you know how for true crime authors to make 321 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:28.400 the transition and what the audience is, you know, the 322 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:34.359 whole situation that faces the writer and the potential opportunities. 323 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.319 I believe, I guess in that some of these people 324 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.119 are making there's so many channels, there's so many opportunities. 325 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.319 You can see some of the same things that happened 326 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:47.920 years ago come back, you know, and horror movies are back. 327 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:51.519 I'm over fifty years of age, so I could see 328 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.559 what was happening in the seventies, what was happening in comics, 329 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.559 what was happening magazines, what was happening in movies Hollywood 330 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:02.000 A movies, B movies in what was happening in literature. 331 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.519 So you're seeing some of the same things. Because this 332 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:09.400 true crime is a genre that goes up and down 333 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.839 in terms of popularity like some other things have as well. 334 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.680 But I think that the popularity for true crime is expanding, 335 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.960 and I think it is going to cross over and 336 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:25.279 you're going to see more television and film adaptations of 337 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:30.920 great stories, very much like some of the ones that 338 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:34.400 I'm doing on my program, some of the characters like 339 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:39.319 John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer. To a 340 00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:43.920 certain degree, you know, there is no fictional equivalent of 341 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:49.119 these stories. You know, even criminal minds seems to have 342 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:55.279 so many logical reasons why some of these people kill, 343 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:59.079 and they seem to be organic brain disorders or traumatic 344 00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:03.759 events these people's lives, and you know that's and then 345 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.359 as a result, they profile these people and not to 346 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.640 say they don't just you know, also showcase just evil 347 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:14.720 characters as well, But there seems to be a fair 348 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:22.240 amount of explanation, which includes insanity and trauma for these 349 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:29.599 people killing. And in my experience with true crime, I 350 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:35.720 am amazed at how many psychopathic killers there are in 351 00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:38.640 all kinds of instances. People that have the capacity to 352 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:43.680 kill their parents for no reason whatsoever, people that are 353 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:48.559 able to kill children, or you know, the list goes 354 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:50.480 on and on. I don't have to repeat it for you. 355 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:57.720 But the lack of conscience, remorse, our capacity to kill, 356 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:04.240 may mutilate, display, laugh, not consider these people as anything 357 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:10.319 but just trash is unfortunately a reoccurring theme in true crime. 358 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.720 There doesn't seem to be so many the Burn Farm, 359 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.440 which is one of the last programs I did. Burn Farm. 360 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:23.160 You know, that woman was insane, but whether she stays 361 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.960 in a mental institution or whether she's in prison would 362 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:31.160 make very little difference. You could say, well, we could 363 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:33.920 help that person out an insane assam where they deserve 364 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.839 to be an insane and som rather than a prison. Somehow, 365 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.559 I just don't think it's going to make that much difference, 366 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:46.839 And as a result, you know, I can't see much 367 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:50.400 of a debate on this, but certainly that woman exhibited 368 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:56.400 what I would consider it to be insane you know, characteristics. Absolutely, However, 369 00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.480 I mean the rationales if you're capable of doing something, 370 00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:01.680 if you lose said, if you try to cover up 371 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:02.599 your tracks or. 372 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:04.440 You know. 373 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:08.559 So there's always that and I like American justice in 374 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:12.440 terms of that point where they're still trying to get 375 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:15.960 you to look at the responsibility for that other person's life. 376 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:21.759 And so regardless of being insane or or having insane 377 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:27.240 thoughts of retribution or righteousness or they had it coming 378 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:32.599 to them or whatever it was, it's still the intent 379 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:36.680 to kill still outweighs everything else. And so in the end, 380 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.079 very you know, when they do have the ability to convict, 381 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.440 they certainly do. And I think that's the main point 382 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:49.400 when you're dealing with cold blooded killers. That's what people want, 383 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.119 and that's what people expect, is to get the full 384 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.680 extent of the law hand it to these people in 385 00:26:54.759 --> 00:27:01.920 terms of sentencing. Now we still don't have Ronald J. Watkins. 386 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:06.680 Maybe he thought it was an hour different. I really 387 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.599 apologize for this for those that are listen to me, 388 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:12.559 kind of repeat some of the stuff I did a 389 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:17.240 couple of weeks ago. I may take this time to 390 00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:22.079 talk about Trophy Kill. And this is new information and 391 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.480 so if I have this opportunity till we get Ronald J. 392 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:28.960 Watkins on, I'll spend the next little bit telling you 393 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.920 the latest development with the killer that is involved in 394 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:35.519 my book, Trophy Kill. I'll give a brief synopsis of 395 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.640 the story for those people that don't know. Trophy Kill 396 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.759 is an incredible tale of a psychopathic killer that I 397 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:49.720 corresponded with briefly. He walked into a police station. Let 398 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:53.000 me start again. On July one, the movie Shall We 399 00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:56.839 Dance was being filmed in Winnipeg, Susan Sarandon called police 400 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.680 to report some jewelry, including her gold necklace situars in 401 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:05.160