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<v Speaker 1>We understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a symbol, an idea.

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<v Speaker 2>The population of atheists this country is going through.

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<v Speaker 1>The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If

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<v Speaker 1>I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,

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<v Speaker 1>not because I put my hand on a book and

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<v Speaker 1>made a wish and working together for a more rational world.

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<v Speaker 2>Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.

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<v Speaker 2>Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>Thinking Atheist podcast, hosted by Seth Andrews.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. Here we are at the two hundred and fiftieth

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<v Speaker 2>birthday of the United States for many a day of

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<v Speaker 2>great celebration, but not for me and maybe not for you.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's a lot of debate about how we're supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to approach this particular occasion. Of course, I wake up

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<v Speaker 2>this morning and I read that Donald Trump is still

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<v Speaker 2>petitioning to have his own face put on Mount Rushmore.

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<v Speaker 2>How much of the two hundred and fiftieth birthday can

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<v Speaker 2>be hijacked so that he can masturbate I just and

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<v Speaker 2>he's still polling around thirty percent in this country, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course, we've all been laughing at the big fair

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<v Speaker 2>at the National Ball, which you know, they've got this

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<v Speaker 2>big strip of grass in the middle, and then they've

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<v Speaker 2>got the booths on either side. Nobody's going and even

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<v Speaker 2>the live feed from Fox News shows what looks like

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<v Speaker 2>a giant bear pasture, and I am here for it.

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<v Speaker 2>I love the there is schadenfreude. I love the idea

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<v Speaker 2>that they're rarely struggling with attendance and the weather kind

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<v Speaker 2>of sucks, and maybe the universe has a sense of

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<v Speaker 2>justice after all, I'll admit, does it make me petty? Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm petty. But a few days ago, even on this show,

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<v Speaker 2>we talked about how this administration and the culture that

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<v Speaker 2>has really emerged over the past ten years or so

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<v Speaker 2>has ruined the stars and stripes the American flag. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>the fifty stars that represent the fifty US states and

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<v Speaker 2>the thirteen stripes that alternate, and they represent the British

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<v Speaker 2>colonies that declared independence. It's supposed to represent who we are.

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<v Speaker 2>Too often in the past it has been kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a statement of national or global superiority. Right, we're America

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<v Speaker 2>and America is the world. We're greater than everybody else,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm so glad I'm American and I don't live

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<v Speaker 2>in another part of the world where their freedom is

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<v Speaker 2>less freedom me. Okay, Now I come to the point.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm cruising down the road. Truck drives by, got an

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<v Speaker 2>American flag on the window. You know, he's got one

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<v Speaker 2>of those stickers. I judge that person. I got a neighbor,

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<v Speaker 2>he's got an American flag in his yard this weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>I judge that person. I'm like, I know who they

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<v Speaker 2>voted for. I see somebody walking through the grocery store

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<v Speaker 2>and they're dressed like a Roman candle. They've got a

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<v Speaker 2>flag and they've got an eagle, and there's some platitude

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<v Speaker 2>or empty calorie slogan like freedom isn't free, or I'm

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<v Speaker 2>proud to be an American. They talk about are saying

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<v Speaker 2>that Lee Greenwood song, who made it big with the

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<v Speaker 2>tune I'm proud to be an American where at least

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<v Speaker 2>done no, I'm free, And everybody gets all misty eyed,

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<v Speaker 2>and I won't forget the men who died who gave

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<v Speaker 2>that right to me. And I'd gladly stand up next

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<v Speaker 2>to you and defend her. Still today, you know the

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<v Speaker 2>song because there ain't no doubt. I love this lane.

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<v Speaker 2>God bless the you is a here in this country,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in my part of the country. People eat it up.

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<v Speaker 2>They just eat that stuff up right. And it's a

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<v Speaker 2>little tricky because when they invoke those who have legitimately

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<v Speaker 2>died to provide the freedoms that we have. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to dismiss the sacrifices that have been legitimately made

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<v Speaker 2>for those freedoms. But if you have noticed throughout our history,

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<v Speaker 2>many of the times that we've gone into combat and

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<v Speaker 2>people have died on every side, we've called that fight

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<v Speaker 2>or we've excused that fight with the hashtag freedom right.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the Vietnam War, which was a massive calamity.

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<v Speaker 2>It cost fifty five thousand American lives two million Vietnamese lives.

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<v Speaker 2>We were talking the whole time about how this is

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<v Speaker 2>necessary for global freedom, which is necessary for American freedom,

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<v Speaker 2>And the truth was it was just a fiasco. It

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<v Speaker 2>was a bloody calamity. And historians have come to realize

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<v Speaker 2>what a clusterfuck the Vietnam War was. But the whole

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<v Speaker 2>narrative at the time was freedom America. Freedom America. Soldiers

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<v Speaker 2>died if you won't stand behind our soldiers. Why don't

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<v Speaker 2>you go stand in front of them? And this is

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to be a conversation stopper about whether or not

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<v Speaker 2>we are colonizers, conquerors, oppressors in this country and around

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of the world. And so we see the

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<v Speaker 2>weaponization of the red, white, and blue. And there are

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of outlets who have been reporting about the

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<v Speaker 2>polarized country that we live in. Some people on the

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and fiftieth are thankful for their freedom. Certainly,

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<v Speaker 2>I know I am. I'm thankful to be free. I

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<v Speaker 2>could living in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, or it could

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<v Speaker 2>be living in an impoverished place where you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>are under the guns of a co opted government that

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<v Speaker 2>is oppressing on all of its people, starving its people, etc.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I get that, but I also am watching

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<v Speaker 2>the step by step dismantling what was it Rolling Stone

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<v Speaker 2>who called it a rolling coup of the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>the oligarchy, the autocracy, the fascist state that is being

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<v Speaker 2>installed on a day by day basis, and the cult

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<v Speaker 2>of personality. As I watched Donald Trump reach out with

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<v Speaker 2>his big meat arms and wrap him around the flag,

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<v Speaker 2>and he then has decided he and the flag are married.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you love Trump, you love America. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't love Trump, you hate America. By the way,

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<v Speaker 2>those are his words. NBC had an article that came

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<v Speaker 2>out just a few weeks or a few days ago. It said,

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<v Speaker 2>a nation turns two fifty and any Americans say the

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<v Speaker 2>stars and stripes is now a red flag. Part of

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<v Speaker 2>the article to fly or not to fly an American flag?

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<v Speaker 2>That was never a question for Bruce Watson, who has

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<v Speaker 2>put his national pride on display for years and nudges

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<v Speaker 2>neighbors in his small New England town to do the same.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, I'm very proud of our flag. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>symbol of we the people. But as the polarized nation

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<v Speaker 2>marks its two hundred and fiftieth birthday, Watson, seventy two,

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<v Speaker 2>worries his stars and stripes may now need an asterisk.

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<v Speaker 2>If we do fly the flag, we'll also put out

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<v Speaker 2>signs to make it clear we are not to maga.

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<v Speaker 2>The American flag is a symbol striped with many meanings,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's hung on front porches, waved in parades, protests

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<v Speaker 2>and World Cup matches, or stamped on lapel pins and

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<v Speaker 2>boxing trunks. Like so much else in American life, it

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<v Speaker 2>has also been tangled up in politics and the policies

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<v Speaker 2>of President Donald Trump. NBC News ask readers to share

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<v Speaker 2>their feelings and practices around the flag. In a moment

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<v Speaker 2>Poles suggest when patriotism, national pride, and optimism for the

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<v Speaker 2>country's future are all freeing. Like Watson, some say the

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<v Speaker 2>flag can be taken as an endorsement of the current administration.

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<v Speaker 2>For others, it isn't tied to any one party, but

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<v Speaker 2>is a way of life. Rather than not fly the flag,

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<v Speaker 2>several readers said they planned to show their patriotism and

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<v Speaker 2>protest Trump by flying it upside down to signal that

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<v Speaker 2>the country is in distress. Donald Trump has turned everything

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<v Speaker 2>upside down, so it makes sense our flag should be

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<v Speaker 2>upside down, said Dina Bannick, sixty one, who lives outside

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<v Speaker 2>Des Moines, Iowa. It's a shame. We used to be

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<v Speaker 2>a proud nation. Now our country's in distress. Trump supporters

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<v Speaker 2>such as Dave Cavanaugh of Months in Massachusetts, question such protests.

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<v Speaker 2>The professional wood carver is so devoted to Trump that

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<v Speaker 2>he's busy chiseling a statue of him that right now

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<v Speaker 2>sits partially finished on his front lawn. I couldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>prouder to be an American, Kavanaugh, forty nine said. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe Americans should be proud to fly the flag and

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<v Speaker 2>fly it the right way. What shameful is that people

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<v Speaker 2>who hate Trump are flying the flag upside down. By

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<v Speaker 2>the way, you should see the wood carving of Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what, I may put it on the show

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<v Speaker 2>thumbnail or are linked to it in the notes. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>I'll just link to the article. Oh, it's you know

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<v Speaker 2>what it looks like. What does it look It looks

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<v Speaker 2>like an alien, except it has Donald Trump's hair in

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<v Speaker 2>wood and the face looks like the twisted cousin of Pinocchio. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>back to the article. Trump supporters have also flown the

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<v Speaker 2>flag upside down, most notably after his defeat in the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty election to Joe Biden. An upside down flag

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<v Speaker 2>was also spotted flying outside the Virginia home of conservative

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito January twenty twenty one, the

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<v Speaker 2>month pro Trump rioters stormed the Capitol. Rather than fly

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<v Speaker 2>the stars and stripes, Master Sergeant Frank Chappelle of the

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<v Speaker 2>Air National Guard has gone with an alternate flag. He said.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of what makes us Americans is that we can

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<v Speaker 2>meet in the middle. We can come together in the

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<v Speaker 2>center and find things we can all agree on. Chapels

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<v Speaker 2>assigned to the one hundred and seventy first Air Refueling

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<v Speaker 2>Wing outside Pittsburgh, and stress that he was speaking only

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<v Speaker 2>for himself. He said, but what Trump's been doing through

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<v Speaker 2>some of his rhetorican policies is driving a wedge between Americans,

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<v Speaker 2>dividing us even further. So when I bought my home,

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<v Speaker 2>I replaced the US flag with the state flag of Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 2>Chappelle is a religious affairs airman, and wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 2>why do we have a religious affairs air? Never mind,

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<v Speaker 2>he provides crisis counseling and spiritual care for people from

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<v Speaker 2>all faiths or none. He said he plans to fly

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<v Speaker 2>the flag again. Quote once, I believe that the States

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<v Speaker 2>are more united in vision, tolerance, and empathy toward our

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<v Speaker 2>fellow Americans. I am not holding my breath. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>section of the article that is subtitled poll pressure. It

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<v Speaker 2>says some readers said they were motivated by peer pressure

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<v Speaker 2>more than patriotism. I display my flag outside my home

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<v Speaker 2>mainly because everyone else around my neighborhood does it, even

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<v Speaker 2>though I'm not one hundred percent proud to be American,

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<v Speaker 2>said a woman from Newtown, Pennsylvania. She hasked to remain anonymous.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel that if I don't have a flag displayed somewhere,

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<v Speaker 2>people will think I'm against our country or something. And

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<v Speaker 2>then there were readers like Rebecca Dyer, mother of five,

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<v Speaker 2>who lives outside Salt Lake City, who said she flies

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<v Speaker 2>the flag no matter who occupies the White House or

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<v Speaker 2>how disappointed she may feel about the state of the Union.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not flying the flag. I mean, I've never been

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<v Speaker 2>that guy. I've never gotten misty eyed when they play

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<v Speaker 2>the anthem, you know. I mean maybe more so when

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<v Speaker 2>I was religious a little bit, but it always seemed

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<v Speaker 2>a little performative, or very much performative. It's a cheaply

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<v Speaker 2>bought nobility. You bring out a piece of fabric and

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<v Speaker 2>you put your hand over your heart, and you play

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<v Speaker 2>a song, and essentially you are acting like you are

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<v Speaker 2>something special. And I've become convinced that we really ain't.

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<v Speaker 2>I talked to Magus all the time, like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>what's so special about, what's so great about what is

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<v Speaker 2>it about the United States? And it always one word freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>We have freedom. And I wrote about this in my

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<v Speaker 2>book Confessions of a Former Fox News Christian. I'm like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>Australia has got freedom. Yeah, the UK's got freedom, Canada's

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<v Speaker 2>got freedom. What are you talking about? Switzerland's got freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>And then, of course we fail in all the major

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<v Speaker 2>metrics when it comes to the quality of being alive, education,

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<v Speaker 2>don't get me started. We are way down the list,

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<v Speaker 2>cost of living, quality of health care, violent crime statistics, attc.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we suck in so many ways. What am

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<v Speaker 2>I proud of? What am I proud of? Just being? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not patriotism, that's just tribalism. That's in grouping and

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<v Speaker 2>out grouping. And it's a totally emotional response. And so

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<v Speaker 2>here we are at two point fifty and everybody around

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<v Speaker 2>me seems to be split. I've got one group of

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<v Speaker 2>people who are dressed up like a Roman candle and

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<v Speaker 2>they're saluting in handover heart and they're puffing out about

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<v Speaker 2>our greatness and how it's amazing to be an American.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so lucky to be American. There's a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>other people going, what the hell do we have to

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<v Speaker 2>be proud of you're kidnapping people in the streets. We've

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<v Speaker 2>got a president who has enriched himself to the tune

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<v Speaker 2>of what three and a half billion dollars by weaponizing

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<v Speaker 2>our government against us. He's got the DOJ and the

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<v Speaker 2>Department of Education in pieces. He's got a plumber running

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<v Speaker 2>the Department of Homeland Security. He is surrounded by sick

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<v Speaker 2>of fans, and all he talks about is himself, not America.

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<v Speaker 2>Unless he's linking the two. He has to be part

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<v Speaker 2>of the equation. Recently, he did like an interview where

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<v Speaker 2>he was asked what he reads when you're reading about

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<v Speaker 2>the world. And by the way, this man does not read.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't read. He gets all of his information by

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<v Speaker 2>watching TV. Right, he has to be spoon fed. I

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<v Speaker 2>guarantee you this man does not read. But his answer was, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I read lots of news stories, mostly the

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<v Speaker 2>ones about me. So we live in the United States

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<v Speaker 2>of me and more me. What am I proud of?

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<v Speaker 2>What am I proud of? Our allies are issuing her,

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<v Speaker 2>former allies are issuing. Travel warnings. Be careful if you

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<v Speaker 2>travel to the United States, because you could get messed up?

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<v Speaker 2>What am I proud of? We're declaring ideological war and

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<v Speaker 2>often real war on people of other nations with no accountability.

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<v Speaker 2>What am I proud of? The leader of this country

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<v Speaker 2>is labeling entire demographics garbage people, garbage people. A racist, sexist, sociopathic,

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<v Speaker 2>grifting manchild of extreme privilege has taken over the United States?

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<v Speaker 2>What am I proud of? And I know that you

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<v Speaker 2>may feel the same, and I wish it wasn't the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree. What was it that Martin Luther King Junior said? Right,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't criticize America because I hate her. I criticize

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<v Speaker 2>her because I love her. I want her to see

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<v Speaker 2>the best version of itself. That's a paraphrase. I'm doing

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<v Speaker 2>it from memory. I should have pulled up the quote directly,

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<v Speaker 2>but you can look it up. And that's the gist. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>I criticize because I love her In that way, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't feel affection, but I do want the United States

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<v Speaker 2>to heal and reverse course and achieve the best version

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<v Speaker 2>of itself. In that sense, do I love my country?

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<v Speaker 2>I love it in the way that I would love

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<v Speaker 2>a loved one who is life had gone off the

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<v Speaker 2>rails and I say, man, I sure would like to

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<v Speaker 2>see them recover and be better and do better, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I would love to see them maximize the best versions

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<v Speaker 2>of themselves and spread goodness into this world. I care

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<v Speaker 2>about them in that way. So in that way, I

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<v Speaker 2>love my country. But in some ways the two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty it feels like a funeral, doesn't it. It feels

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<v Speaker 2>like a funeral. Well, doctor Christen Dumay, who is a Christian.

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<v Speaker 2>She is a Christian, but she's also a fierce champion

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<v Speaker 2>for state church separation. She recently released a piece that

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<v Speaker 2>invoked Civil War era civil rights icon Frederick Douglass and

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<v Speaker 2>talked about how the slaves might have felt about the

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<v Speaker 2>United States as everybody else was handover heart, bloviating about

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<v Speaker 2>greatness and how you know, if you're a slave in

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<v Speaker 2>this country, you're not exactly singing the songs of liberty.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I read it, I thought, wow, this is remarkable.

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<v Speaker 2>She did a great job of summing up what I

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<v Speaker 2>was thinking and how I was feeling. Let me take

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<v Speaker 2>a very short break and I'll come back with a

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<v Speaker 2>piece that published just today called Oppression makes a Wise

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<v Speaker 2>Man Mad. With her permission, allow me to read for You,

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<v Speaker 2>an article that was published today, the fourth of July,

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<v Speaker 2>on the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary by doctor Christin Dumay,

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<v Speaker 2>a historian of gender, faith politics and author of the

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times best selling book Jesus and John Wayne.

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<v Speaker 2>She is a believer, and she is also a humanist

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<v Speaker 2>and fierce advocate for justice, state, church separation, and basic

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<v Speaker 2>human decency. I am a fan of doctor Christin Dumay

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<v Speaker 2>and with her blessing. The words that she wrote, which

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<v Speaker 2>I have linked in the description box are these. Earlier

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<v Speaker 2>this week, a Gallup survey reported that quote American pride

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<v Speaker 2>falls to twenty five year record low. It's especially low

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<v Speaker 2>among Democrats and independents. There are all sorts of reasons

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<v Speaker 2>for this, some obvious and others perhaps less obvious, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's worth pointing out that pride in one's nation and

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<v Speaker 2>love for that nation are not the same thing. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not particularly proud of my country right now, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's fair to say that I've never felt more

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<v Speaker 2>patriotic because I love this country. I think it's worth

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<v Speaker 2>fighting for. All week, I found myself wavering between celebration

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<v Speaker 2>and lament. If you listened on our live episode of

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<v Speaker 2>the Convocation unscripted on Thursday. You heard all of us

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<v Speaker 2>moving back and forth between the two what is and

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<v Speaker 2>what could be. We dreamed of what we could be celebrating,

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<v Speaker 2>But by yesterday my positivity had faltered. I started to

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<v Speaker 2>draft a more sober posts for today, titled what We Lost,

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<v Speaker 2>thinking it was perhaps best to save that for another day.

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<v Speaker 2>I tried to return to a sense of optimism, or

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<v Speaker 2>at the very least, resilience. At the very least. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought I could write about what I was going to

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<v Speaker 2>do to celebrate. I'm hoping to take at least one

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<v Speaker 2>kid to the celebration and historical reenactments at the gerald

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<v Speaker 2>Ford Museum here in Grand Rapids. And I could share

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<v Speaker 2>a recipe I found online that I hope to make,

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<v Speaker 2>or better yet, get my daughter to make. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>layer of cheesecake in the middle, by the way, and

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<v Speaker 2>she's got a photograph of something that looks delicious, she says.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I could also share a couple of verses

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<v Speaker 2>of America, the beautiful versus that hold intention, the nation's

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<v Speaker 2>promise and its shortcomings. So beautiful for pilgrim feet whose

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<v Speaker 2>stern impassioned stress a thoroughfare for freedom beat across the

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<v Speaker 2>wilderness America, America. God mend thine every flaw, confirm thy

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<v Speaker 2>soul and self control, Thy liberty in law, Oh beautiful,

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<v Speaker 2>for heroes proved in liberating strife, who more than self

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<v Speaker 2>their country, love and mercy more than life. America America.

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<v Speaker 2>May God thy gold fine till all success be nobleness

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<v Speaker 2>and every gain divine. But then came this video across

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<v Speaker 2>my feet. It is a recitation of Frederick Douglas's What

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<v Speaker 2>to the Slave is the fourth of July by his

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<v Speaker 2>own descendants, and that is linked in the description box.

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<v Speaker 2>And I encourage you to go back and watch this

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<v Speaker 2>on YouTube. I will read the words myself, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty remarkable. Douglas holds the nation up to the standards

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<v Speaker 2>of their founding, to the ideals they celebrated with their

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<v Speaker 2>picnics and fireworks, and he finds it woefully wanting. He

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't flinch from the darkness, but he ends with a

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<v Speaker 2>gritty and hard earned hope. By the way, I am

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<v Speaker 2>a huge fan of Frederick Douglas. His values were secular values.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a fierce critic of religion. The article says

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<v Speaker 2>he writes in a different time and addresses a different

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<v Speaker 2>set of circumstances, but not entirely different. I found the

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<v Speaker 2>words words resonating with me this year in a different way.

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<v Speaker 2>Oppression makes a wise man mad, Douglas said to the

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<v Speaker 2>crowd of white Americans. He said, your fathers were wise men,

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<v Speaker 2>and if they did not go mad, they became restive

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<v Speaker 2>under this treatment. They felt themselves the victims of grievous wrongs,

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<v Speaker 2>wholly incurable in their colonial capacity. With brave men, there

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<v Speaker 2>was always a remedy for oppression. Just here the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of total separation of the colonies from the crown was born.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a startling idea, much more so than we

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<v Speaker 2>at this distance of time regarded the timid and the prudent,

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<v Speaker 2>as has been intimated of that day, were of course

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<v Speaker 2>shocked and alarmed by it. Citizens, your fathers made good

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<v Speaker 2>that resolution. They succeeded, and today you reap the fruits

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<v Speaker 2>of their success, the freedom gained as yours, and you

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<v Speaker 2>therefore may properly celebrate this anniversary. The fourth of July

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<v Speaker 2>is the first great fact in your nation's history, the

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<v Speaker 2>very ring bolt in the chain of your yet undeveloped destiny.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole scene, as I look back to it, was simple, dignified,

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<v Speaker 2>and sublime. The population of the country at the time

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<v Speaker 2>stood at the insignificant number of three millions. The country

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<v Speaker 2>was poor in the munitions of war, the population was

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<v Speaker 2>weak and scattered, and the country a wilderness unsubdued. There

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<v Speaker 2>were then no means of concert and combinations such as

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<v Speaker 2>exists now. Neither steam nor lightning had been reduced to

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<v Speaker 2>order and discipline. From the Potomac to the Delaware was

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<v Speaker 2>a journey of many days under these and innumerable other disadvantages.

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<v Speaker 2>Your fathers declared for liberty and independence and triumphed fellow citizens.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not wanting in respect for the fathers of this republic.

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<v Speaker 2>The signers of the Declaration of Independence were brave men.

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<v Speaker 2>They were great men, too great enough to give fame

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<v Speaker 2>to a great age. It does not often happen to

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<v Speaker 2>a nation to raise at one time such a number

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<v Speaker 2>of truly great men. The point from which I am

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<v Speaker 2>compelled to view them is not certainly the most favorable,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet I cannot contemplate their great deeds with less

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<v Speaker 2>than admiration. They were statesmen, patriots, and heroes, and for

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<v Speaker 2>the good they did, and the principles they contended for.

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<v Speaker 2>I will unite with you to honor their memory. They

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<v Speaker 2>loved their country better than their own private interests. And

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<v Speaker 2>though this is not the highest form of human excellence,

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<v Speaker 2>all will concede that it is a rare virtue, and

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<v Speaker 2>when it's exhibited, it ought to command respect. He who

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<v Speaker 2>will intelligently lay down his life or his country is

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<v Speaker 2>a man whom it is not in human nature to despise.

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<v Speaker 2>Your father staked their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred

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<v Speaker 2>honor on the cause of their country. In their admiration

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<v Speaker 2>of liberty, they lost sight of all other interests. They

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<v Speaker 2>were peace men, but they preferred revolution to peaceful submission

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<v Speaker 2>to bondage. They were quiet men, but they did not

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<v Speaker 2>shrink from agitating against oppression. They showed forbearance, but they

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<v Speaker 2>knew its limits. They believed in order, but not in

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<v Speaker 2>the order of tyranny. With them, nothing was settled that

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<v Speaker 2>was not right. With them. Justice, liberty, and humanity were final,

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<v Speaker 2>not slavery and oppression. You may well cherish the memory

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<v Speaker 2>of such men. They were great in their day and generation.

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<v Speaker 2>Their solid manhood stands out the more as we contrast

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<v Speaker 2>it with these degenerate times. How circumspect, exact, and proportionate

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<v Speaker 2>were all their movements. How unlike the politicians of an hour,

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<v Speaker 2>their statesmanship looked beyond the passing moment and stretched away

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<v Speaker 2>and strength into the distant future. They seized upon eternal

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<v Speaker 2>principle and set a glorious example in their defense. Mark them,

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<v Speaker 2>fully appreciating the hardships to be encountered, firmly believing in

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<v Speaker 2>the right of their cause, honorably inviting the scrutiny of

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<v Speaker 2>an onlooking world, reverently appealing to Heaven to attest their sincerity,

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<v Speaker 2>soundly comprehending the solemn responsibility they were about to assume,

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<v Speaker 2>wisely measuring the terrible odds against them. Your fathers, the

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<v Speaker 2>fathers of this Republic, did most deliberately, under the inspiration

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<v Speaker 2>of a glorious patriotism, and with a sublime faith in

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<v Speaker 2>the great principles of justice and freedom, lay deep the

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<v Speaker 2>cornerstone of the national superstructure, which has risen and still

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<v Speaker 2>rises in grandeur around you. We have to do with

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<v Speaker 2>the past only as we make it useful to the

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<v Speaker 2>present and to the future. I say it with a

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<v Speaker 2>sad sense of the disparity between us. I am not

413
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:04.319
<v Speaker 2>included within the pale of this glorious anniversary. Your high

414
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:09.640
<v Speaker 2>independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. The blessings

415
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:13.279
<v Speaker 2>in which you this day rejoice are not enjoyed in common.

416
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:18.759
<v Speaker 2>The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity, and independence bequeathed

417
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.000
<v Speaker 2>by your fathers is shared by you, not by me.

418
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:25.680
<v Speaker 2>The sunlight that brought life and healing to you has

419
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:30.319
<v Speaker 2>brought stripes and death to me. This fourth July is yours,

420
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:35.640
<v Speaker 2>not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn at a

421
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:40.480
<v Speaker 2>time like this, scorching irony. Not convincing argument is needed.

422
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh had I the ability and could I reach the

423
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:47.799
<v Speaker 2>nation's ear, I would today pour out a fiery stream

424
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:53.559
<v Speaker 2>of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke.

425
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.119
<v Speaker 2>For it is not light that is needed, but fire.

426
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 2>It is not the gentle shower but thunder. You need

427
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake. The feeling of

428
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>the nation must be quickened, The conscience of the nation

429
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:11.960
<v Speaker 2>must be roused, The propriety of the nation must be startled.

430
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.839
<v Speaker 2>The hypocrisy of the nation must be exposed, and its

431
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 2>crimes against God and man must be proclaimed and denounced.

432
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:23.559
<v Speaker 2>What to the American slave is the fourth of July

433
00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:27.640
<v Speaker 2>I answer a day that reveals to him, more than

434
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 2>all other days in the year, the gross injustice and

435
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.640
<v Speaker 2>cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him,

436
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:40.200
<v Speaker 2>your celebration is a sham, Your boasted liberty, an unholy license,

437
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Your national greatness swelling vanity. Your sounds are rejoicing, are

438
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:51.599
<v Speaker 2>empty and heartless. Your denunciations of tyrants, brass fronted impudence.

439
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Your shouts of liberty and equality hollow mockery. Your prayers

440
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.799
<v Speaker 2>and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings with you, your religious

441
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:07.079
<v Speaker 2>parade and solemnity are to him mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety,

442
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.480
<v Speaker 2>and hypocrisy, a thin veil to cover up crimes which

443
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.559
<v Speaker 2>would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a

444
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.960
<v Speaker 2>nation on this earth guilty of practices more shocking and

445
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 2>bloody than are the people of these United States at

446
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:27.079
<v Speaker 2>this very hour. Go where you may search, Where you

447
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.880
<v Speaker 2>will roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the

448
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:35.119
<v Speaker 2>old world. Travel through South America, search out every abuse,

449
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.319
<v Speaker 2>and when you found the last, Lay your facts by

450
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and

451
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.440
<v Speaker 2>you will say with me that for revolting barbarity and

452
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:51.200
<v Speaker 2>shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival. At the very

453
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:54.160
<v Speaker 2>moment that they are thanking God for the enjoyment of

454
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 2>civil and religious liberty and for the right to worship

455
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:01.119
<v Speaker 2>God according to the dictates of their own count they

456
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 2>are utterly silent in respect to a law which robs

457
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.759
<v Speaker 2>religion of its chief significance and makes it utterly worthless

458
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.559
<v Speaker 2>to a world lying in wickedness. But the Church of

459
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:15.359
<v Speaker 2>this country is not only indifferent to the wrongs of

460
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the slave, it actually takes sides with the oppressors. It

461
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.519
<v Speaker 2>has made itself the bulwark of American slavery and the

462
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 2>shield of American slave hunters. Many of its most eloquent divines,

463
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:31.440
<v Speaker 2>who stand as the very lights of the Church, have

464
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:35.039
<v Speaker 2>shamelessly given the sanction of religion and the Bible to

465
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:39.000
<v Speaker 2>the whole slave system. They've taught that man may properly

466
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.079
<v Speaker 2>be a slave, that the relation of masterman slave is

467
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:47.319
<v Speaker 2>ordained of God, that to send back an escaped bondman

468
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to his master is clearly the duty of all the

469
00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:53.960
<v Speaker 2>followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, and this horrible blasphemy

470
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:58.640
<v Speaker 2>is palmed off upon the world for Christianity. For my part,

471
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I would say, welcome infidelity, Welcome atheism, Welcome anything in

472
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.519
<v Speaker 2>preference to the Gospel as preached by those diminds. They

473
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 2>convert the very name of religion into an engine of

474
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:16.960
<v Speaker 2>tyranny and barbarous cruelty, and serve to confirm more infidels

475
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:20.799
<v Speaker 2>in this age that all the infidel writings of Thomas Paine,

476
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Voltaire and Bowlingbroke put together have done. These ministers make

477
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.240
<v Speaker 2>religion a cold and flinty hearted thing, having neither principles

478
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.400
<v Speaker 2>of right action nor bowels of compassion. They strip the

479
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:37.079
<v Speaker 2>love of God of its beauty, and leave the throne

480
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.279
<v Speaker 2>of religion a huge, horrible, repulsive form. It is a

481
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>religion for oppressors, tyrants, man stealers, and thugs. It is

482
00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:50.599
<v Speaker 2>not that pure and undefiled religion which is from above,

483
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.279
<v Speaker 2>and which is first pure, then peaceable, easy to be entreated,

484
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hippocri,

485
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.119
<v Speaker 2>but a religion which favors the rich against the poor,

486
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.839
<v Speaker 2>which exalts the proud above the humble, which divides mankind

487
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:12.240
<v Speaker 2>into two classes, tyrants and slaves, which says to the

488
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.559
<v Speaker 2>man in chains, stay there, and to the oppressor oppress on.

489
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:20.319
<v Speaker 2>It is a religion which may be professed and enjoyed

490
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:23.880
<v Speaker 2>by all the robbers and enslavers of mankind. It makes

491
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:28.359
<v Speaker 2>God a respector of persons, denies his fatherhood of that race,

492
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.519
<v Speaker 2>and tramples in the dust the great truth of the

493
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:35.559
<v Speaker 2>brotherhood of man. All this we affirm to be true

494
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.640
<v Speaker 2>of the popular Church and the popular worship of our

495
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 2>land and nation. A religion, a church, and a worship which,

496
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 2>on the authority of inspired wisdom, we pronounce to be

497
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:50.000
<v Speaker 2>an abomination in the sight of God. In the language

498
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 2>of Isaiah, the American Church might well be addressed, bring

499
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>no more vain oblations. Incense is an abomination unto me.

500
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.039
<v Speaker 2>The new moons and sam the calling of assemblies I

501
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 2>cannot away with. It is antiquity. Even the solemn meeting,

502
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:12.000
<v Speaker 2>your new moons and your appointed feasts, My soul hateist.

503
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.240
<v Speaker 2>They're a trouble to me. I am weary to bear them.

504
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.240
<v Speaker 2>And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide

505
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:22.440
<v Speaker 2>mine eyes from you. Yeay, when you make many prayers,

506
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:27.279
<v Speaker 2>I will not hear your hands are full of blood.

507
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Cease to do evil, learn to do well, Seek judgment,

508
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:35.279
<v Speaker 2>Relieve the oppressed, Judge for the fatherless, plead for the widow.

509
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>My spirit wearies of such blasphemy. And how such men

510
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.119
<v Speaker 2>can be supported as the standing types and representatives of

511
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Jesus Christ is a mystery which I leave others to penetrate. Americans,

512
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:54.640
<v Speaker 2>your Republican politics, not less than your Republican religion, are

513
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:58.920
<v Speaker 2>flagrantly inconsistent. Your boast of your love of liberty, your

514
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:03.799
<v Speaker 2>superior civilization, and your pure Christianity. While the whole political

515
00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.759
<v Speaker 2>power of the nation has embodied and the two great

516
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:11.119
<v Speaker 2>political parties is solemnly pledged to support and perpetuate the

517
00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:16.480
<v Speaker 2>enslavement of three million of your countrymen. You hurl your

518
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 2>anathemis at the crowned headed tyrants of Russia and Austria,

519
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:25.599
<v Speaker 2>and pride yourselves on your democratic institutions, while you yourselves

520
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.800
<v Speaker 2>contend to be the mere tools and bodyguards of the

521
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:33.920
<v Speaker 2>tyrants of Virginia and Carolina. Fellow citizens, I will not

522
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:39.480
<v Speaker 2>enlarge further on your national inconsistencies. The existence of slavery

523
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:43.519
<v Speaker 2>in this country brands your Republicanism as a sham, your

524
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:48.440
<v Speaker 2>humanity is a base pretense, and your Christianity as a lie.

525
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:53.599
<v Speaker 2>It destroys your moral power abroad, It corrupts your politicians

526
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:57.039
<v Speaker 2>at home. It SAPs the foundation of religion. It makes

527
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.960
<v Speaker 2>your name a hissing and a byword to a mocking earth.

528
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.800
<v Speaker 2>It is an antagonistic force, and your government the only

529
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:09.719
<v Speaker 2>thing that seriously disturbs and endangers your union. It fetters

530
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.960
<v Speaker 2>your progress. It is the enemy of improvement, the deadly

531
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:17.840
<v Speaker 2>foe of education. It fosters pride, it breeds insolence, It

532
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 2>promotes vice, It shelters crime. It is a curse to

533
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:25.159
<v Speaker 2>the earth that supports it, and yet you cling to

534
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:27.719
<v Speaker 2>it as if it were the sheet anchor of all

535
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:33.800
<v Speaker 2>your hopes. Oh, be warned, Be warned. A horrible reptile

536
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 2>is coiled up in your nation's bosom. The venomous creature

537
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:41.079
<v Speaker 2>is nursing at the tender breast of your youthful republic.

538
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.480
<v Speaker 2>For the love of God, tear away and fling from

539
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.519
<v Speaker 2>you this hideous monster, and let the weight of twenty

540
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 2>millions crush and destroy it forever. Allow me to say

541
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:55.719
<v Speaker 2>in conclusion, notwithstanding the dark picture I have this day

542
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.480
<v Speaker 2>presented of the state of the Union, I do not

543
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:03.679
<v Speaker 2>despair of this country. There are forces in operation which

544
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:08.039
<v Speaker 2>must inevitably work the downfall of slavery. The arm of

545
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.800
<v Speaker 2>the Lord is not shortened, and the doom of slavery

546
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:15.760
<v Speaker 2>is certain. I therefore leave off where I began with hope,

547
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.599
<v Speaker 2>while drawing encouragement from the Declaration of Independence, the great

548
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:25.079
<v Speaker 2>principles it contains, and the genius of American institutions. My

549
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:29.719
<v Speaker 2>spirit is also cheered by the obvious tendencies of the age.

550
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:37.119
<v Speaker 2>God speed the year of Jubilee. Now, Frederick Douglas was

551
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 2>a complicated man. I believe he was devoutly Christian, and

552
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:45.199
<v Speaker 2>his religious beliefs kind of shifted. You heard some invocations

553
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.800
<v Speaker 2>of God in the writings that I just read. But

554
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.239
<v Speaker 2>he was also the guy who was a tremendous admirer

555
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:57.280
<v Speaker 2>of the atheist and brilliant writer Robert green Engersol. Ultimately,

556
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.679
<v Speaker 2>the message about Douglas is he was a human sanitarian

557
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:04.719
<v Speaker 2>and humanist first, and he was a fierce champion for

558
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:08.199
<v Speaker 2>the oppressed and a fierce critic of the oppressors. And

559
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:11.760
<v Speaker 2>his words can be applied in so many other contexts

560
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:16.719
<v Speaker 2>or related context today. I wonder what Frederick Douglass would

561
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.760
<v Speaker 2>have said, and he looked around today, on our two

562
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:25.039
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fiftieth and seen what we have become. Whether

563
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:27.760
<v Speaker 2>you celebrate or not, whether you fly the flag or not,

564
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:30.400
<v Speaker 2>just know that you are seen and heard. If you

565
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.880
<v Speaker 2>grieve about where we have come and where we might

566
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:36.679
<v Speaker 2>still go, and yet you hold on to a sliver

567
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 2>of hope that if we keep fighting, maybe we can

568
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:44.800
<v Speaker 2>reverse or alter course and become one day a nation

569
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 2>we can truly be proud of. Thank you so much

570
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:50.239
<v Speaker 2>for listening.

571
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Follow The Thanking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a

572
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 1>complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and

573
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.400
<v Speaker 1>t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist

574
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:05.159
<v Speaker 1>pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events

575
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:12.400
<v Speaker 1>and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.