1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: We understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,000 a symbol, an idea. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,439 Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through. 4 00:00:13,359 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,120 I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, 6 00:00:22,519 --> 00:00:24,320 not because I put my hand on a book and 7 00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:28,839 made a wish and working together for a more rational world. 8 00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:32,039 Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness. 9 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:34,719 Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way. 10 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:56,200 Thinking Atheist podcast, hosted by Seth Andrews. 12 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: Well. Here we are at the two hundred and fiftieth 13 00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:02,320 birthday of the United States for many a day of 14 00:01:02,439 --> 00:01:06,400 great celebration, but not for me and maybe not for you. 15 00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:09,319 And there's a lot of debate about how we're supposed 16 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:13,200 to approach this particular occasion. Of course, I wake up 17 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,799 this morning and I read that Donald Trump is still 18 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:20,000 petitioning to have his own face put on Mount Rushmore. 19 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,480 How much of the two hundred and fiftieth birthday can 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,680 be hijacked so that he can masturbate I just and 21 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:33,560 he's still polling around thirty percent in this country, and 22 00:01:33,599 --> 00:01:36,840 of course, we've all been laughing at the big fair 23 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:39,680 at the National Ball, which you know, they've got this 24 00:01:39,799 --> 00:01:42,480 big strip of grass in the middle, and then they've 25 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,120 got the booths on either side. Nobody's going and even 26 00:01:47,159 --> 00:01:50,280 the live feed from Fox News shows what looks like 27 00:01:50,359 --> 00:01:53,920 a giant bear pasture, and I am here for it. 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,959 I love the there is schadenfreude. I love the idea 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,840 that they're rarely struggling with attendance and the weather kind 30 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,599 of sucks, and maybe the universe has a sense of 31 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:09,599 justice after all, I'll admit, does it make me petty? Okay, 32 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,960 I'm petty. But a few days ago, even on this show, 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,280 we talked about how this administration and the culture that 34 00:02:16,319 --> 00:02:18,960 has really emerged over the past ten years or so 35 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,560 has ruined the stars and stripes the American flag. Right, 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,919 the fifty stars that represent the fifty US states and 37 00:02:27,039 --> 00:02:30,280 the thirteen stripes that alternate, and they represent the British 38 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,319 colonies that declared independence. It's supposed to represent who we are. 39 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:38,479 Too often in the past it has been kind of 40 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:42,520 a statement of national or global superiority. Right, we're America 41 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,639 and America is the world. We're greater than everybody else, 42 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,360 and I'm so glad I'm American and I don't live 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,719 in another part of the world where their freedom is 44 00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:57,520 less freedom me. Okay, Now I come to the point. 45 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:00,159 I'm cruising down the road. Truck drives by, got an 46 00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:02,919 American flag on the window. You know, he's got one 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,120 of those stickers. I judge that person. I got a neighbor, 48 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:10,680 he's got an American flag in his yard this weekend. 49 00:03:10,719 --> 00:03:12,800 I judge that person. I'm like, I know who they 50 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:17,039 voted for. I see somebody walking through the grocery store 51 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,360 and they're dressed like a Roman candle. They've got a 52 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,319 flag and they've got an eagle, and there's some platitude 53 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,479 or empty calorie slogan like freedom isn't free, or I'm 54 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,080 proud to be an American. They talk about are saying 55 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,120 that Lee Greenwood song, who made it big with the 56 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:41,319 tune I'm proud to be an American where at least 57 00:03:41,479 --> 00:03:45,240 done no, I'm free, And everybody gets all misty eyed, 58 00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:51,159 and I won't forget the men who died who gave 59 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:58,080 that right to me. And I'd gladly stand up next 60 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:02,240 to you and defend her. Still today, you know the 61 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:07,520 song because there ain't no doubt. I love this lane. 62 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:18,199 God bless the you is a here in this country, 63 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,040 especially in my part of the country. People eat it up. 64 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:25,439 They just eat that stuff up right. And it's a 65 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,680 little tricky because when they invoke those who have legitimately 66 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,240 died to provide the freedoms that we have. We don't 67 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,399 want to dismiss the sacrifices that have been legitimately made 68 00:04:37,959 --> 00:04:41,879 for those freedoms. But if you have noticed throughout our history, 69 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:44,879 many of the times that we've gone into combat and 70 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,639 people have died on every side, we've called that fight 71 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,720 or we've excused that fight with the hashtag freedom right. 72 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,399 I mean the Vietnam War, which was a massive calamity. 73 00:04:56,439 --> 00:05:01,399 It cost fifty five thousand American lives two million Vietnamese lives. 74 00:05:01,639 --> 00:05:03,519 We were talking the whole time about how this is 75 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,120 necessary for global freedom, which is necessary for American freedom, 76 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,879 And the truth was it was just a fiasco. It 77 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,480 was a bloody calamity. And historians have come to realize 78 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,240 what a clusterfuck the Vietnam War was. But the whole 79 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:24,680 narrative at the time was freedom America. Freedom America. Soldiers 80 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,279 died if you won't stand behind our soldiers. Why don't 81 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,680 you go stand in front of them? And this is 82 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,480 supposed to be a conversation stopper about whether or not 83 00:05:34,639 --> 00:05:40,639 we are colonizers, conquerors, oppressors in this country and around 84 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:43,319 the rest of the world. And so we see the 85 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,120 weaponization of the red, white, and blue. And there are 86 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,279 a lot of outlets who have been reporting about the 87 00:05:50,319 --> 00:05:53,279 polarized country that we live in. Some people on the 88 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,279 two hundred and fiftieth are thankful for their freedom. Certainly, 89 00:05:57,319 --> 00:05:59,720 I know I am. I'm thankful to be free. I 90 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,360 could living in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, or it could 91 00:06:03,399 --> 00:06:06,360 be living in an impoverished place where you know, we 92 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,920 are under the guns of a co opted government that 93 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,600 is oppressing on all of its people, starving its people, etc. 94 00:06:12,879 --> 00:06:16,040 I mean, I get that, but I also am watching 95 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,360 the step by step dismantling what was it Rolling Stone 96 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:24,959 who called it a rolling coup of the United States, 97 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,040 the oligarchy, the autocracy, the fascist state that is being 98 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,199 installed on a day by day basis, and the cult 99 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,639 of personality. As I watched Donald Trump reach out with 100 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,439 his big meat arms and wrap him around the flag, 101 00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:43,720 and he then has decided he and the flag are married. 102 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,160 So if you love Trump, you love America. And if 103 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,199 you don't love Trump, you hate America. By the way, 104 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,480 those are his words. NBC had an article that came 105 00:06:54,519 --> 00:06:57,439 out just a few weeks or a few days ago. It said, 106 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,040 a nation turns two fifty and any Americans say the 107 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,759 stars and stripes is now a red flag. Part of 108 00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:08,240 the article to fly or not to fly an American flag? 109 00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:11,600 That was never a question for Bruce Watson, who has 110 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,279 put his national pride on display for years and nudges 111 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:18,600 neighbors in his small New England town to do the same. 112 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,439 He said, I'm very proud of our flag. It's the 113 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,800 symbol of we the people. But as the polarized nation 114 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,240 marks its two hundred and fiftieth birthday, Watson, seventy two, 115 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:32,959 worries his stars and stripes may now need an asterisk. 116 00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:36,319 If we do fly the flag, we'll also put out 117 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,160 signs to make it clear we are not to maga. 118 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,000 The American flag is a symbol striped with many meanings, 119 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,160 whether it's hung on front porches, waved in parades, protests 120 00:07:48,199 --> 00:07:52,040 and World Cup matches, or stamped on lapel pins and 121 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,920 boxing trunks. Like so much else in American life, it 122 00:07:55,959 --> 00:07:59,279 has also been tangled up in politics and the policies 123 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:04,120 of President Donald Trump. NBC News ask readers to share 124 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,879 their feelings and practices around the flag. In a moment 125 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:11,759 Poles suggest when patriotism, national pride, and optimism for the 126 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,519 country's future are all freeing. Like Watson, some say the 127 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,040 flag can be taken as an endorsement of the current administration. 128 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,639 For others, it isn't tied to any one party, but 129 00:08:23,839 --> 00:08:27,199 is a way of life. Rather than not fly the flag, 130 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,160 several readers said they planned to show their patriotism and 131 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:36,120 protest Trump by flying it upside down to signal that 132 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,519 the country is in distress. Donald Trump has turned everything 133 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,000 upside down, so it makes sense our flag should be 134 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,399 upside down, said Dina Bannick, sixty one, who lives outside 135 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,639 Des Moines, Iowa. It's a shame. We used to be 136 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,519 a proud nation. Now our country's in distress. Trump supporters 137 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,399 such as Dave Cavanaugh of Months in Massachusetts, question such protests. 138 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,759 The professional wood carver is so devoted to Trump that 139 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,120 he's busy chiseling a statue of him that right now 140 00:09:08,159 --> 00:09:12,399 sits partially finished on his front lawn. I couldn't be 141 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,639 prouder to be an American, Kavanaugh, forty nine said. I 142 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,559 believe Americans should be proud to fly the flag and 143 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,039 fly it the right way. What shameful is that people 144 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,279 who hate Trump are flying the flag upside down. By 145 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,480 the way, you should see the wood carving of Donald Trump. 146 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,480 You know what, I may put it on the show 147 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,919 thumbnail or are linked to it in the notes. Maybe 148 00:09:35,919 --> 00:09:40,000 I'll just link to the article. Oh, it's you know 149 00:09:40,039 --> 00:09:42,039 what it looks like. What does it look It looks 150 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,720 like an alien, except it has Donald Trump's hair in 151 00:09:46,879 --> 00:09:51,679 wood and the face looks like the twisted cousin of Pinocchio. Okay, 152 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,000 back to the article. Trump supporters have also flown the 153 00:09:55,039 --> 00:09:58,759 flag upside down, most notably after his defeat in the 154 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:02,279 twenty twenty election to Joe Biden. An upside down flag 155 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,559 was also spotted flying outside the Virginia home of conservative 156 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,120 Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito January twenty twenty one, the 157 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,519 month pro Trump rioters stormed the Capitol. Rather than fly 158 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,279 the stars and stripes, Master Sergeant Frank Chappelle of the 159 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,279 Air National Guard has gone with an alternate flag. He said. 160 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,799 Part of what makes us Americans is that we can 161 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,039 meet in the middle. We can come together in the 162 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,960 center and find things we can all agree on. Chapels 163 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,639 assigned to the one hundred and seventy first Air Refueling 164 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,559 Wing outside Pittsburgh, and stress that he was speaking only 165 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,240 for himself. He said, but what Trump's been doing through 166 00:10:42,279 --> 00:10:46,399 some of his rhetorican policies is driving a wedge between Americans, 167 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,559 dividing us even further. So when I bought my home, 168 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,679 I replaced the US flag with the state flag of Pennsylvania. 169 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,919 Chappelle is a religious affairs airman, and wait a minute, 170 00:10:57,919 --> 00:11:00,919 why do we have a religious affairs air? Never mind, 171 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,320 he provides crisis counseling and spiritual care for people from 172 00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:08,399 all faiths or none. He said he plans to fly 173 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,799 the flag again. Quote once, I believe that the States 174 00:11:11,799 --> 00:11:16,039 are more united in vision, tolerance, and empathy toward our 175 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,080 fellow Americans. I am not holding my breath. There's a 176 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,039 section of the article that is subtitled poll pressure. It 177 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,440 says some readers said they were motivated by peer pressure 178 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:33,440 more than patriotism. I display my flag outside my home 179 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,159 mainly because everyone else around my neighborhood does it, even 180 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:39,759 though I'm not one hundred percent proud to be American, 181 00:11:39,799 --> 00:11:43,720 said a woman from Newtown, Pennsylvania. She hasked to remain anonymous. 182 00:11:44,279 --> 00:11:47,159 I feel that if I don't have a flag displayed somewhere, 183 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,519 people will think I'm against our country or something. And 184 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,360 then there were readers like Rebecca Dyer, mother of five, 185 00:11:55,519 --> 00:11:58,720 who lives outside Salt Lake City, who said she flies 186 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:02,480 the flag no matter who occupies the White House or 187 00:12:02,519 --> 00:12:06,679 how disappointed she may feel about the state of the Union. 188 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:09,399 I'm not flying the flag. I mean, I've never been 189 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,600 that guy. I've never gotten misty eyed when they play 190 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,519 the anthem, you know. I mean maybe more so when 191 00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:18,440 I was religious a little bit, but it always seemed 192 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,759 a little performative, or very much performative. It's a cheaply 193 00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:25,879 bought nobility. You bring out a piece of fabric and 194 00:12:25,919 --> 00:12:27,960 you put your hand over your heart, and you play 195 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,600 a song, and essentially you are acting like you are 196 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:38,120 something special. And I've become convinced that we really ain't. 197 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,519 I talked to Magus all the time, like, you know, 198 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,039 what's so special about, what's so great about what is 199 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,200 it about the United States? And it always one word freedom. 200 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,200 We have freedom. And I wrote about this in my 201 00:12:54,279 --> 00:12:57,200 book Confessions of a Former Fox News Christian. I'm like, well, 202 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:03,080 Australia has got freedom. Yeah, the UK's got freedom, Canada's 203 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,039 got freedom. What are you talking about? Switzerland's got freedom. 204 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,399 And then, of course we fail in all the major 205 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:13,960 metrics when it comes to the quality of being alive, education, 206 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,000 don't get me started. We are way down the list, 207 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,919 cost of living, quality of health care, violent crime statistics, attc. 208 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:26,440 You know, we suck in so many ways. What am 209 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,320 I proud of? What am I proud of? Just being? Well, 210 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,799 that's not patriotism, that's just tribalism. That's in grouping and 211 00:13:34,879 --> 00:13:38,600 out grouping. And it's a totally emotional response. And so 212 00:13:38,759 --> 00:13:41,720 here we are at two point fifty and everybody around 213 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,399 me seems to be split. I've got one group of 214 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,679 people who are dressed up like a Roman candle and 215 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,919 they're saluting in handover heart and they're puffing out about 216 00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:53,360 our greatness and how it's amazing to be an American. 217 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,279 I'm so lucky to be American. There's a bunch of 218 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,200 other people going, what the hell do we have to 219 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,559 be proud of you're kidnapping people in the streets. We've 220 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,120 got a president who has enriched himself to the tune 221 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:09,120 of what three and a half billion dollars by weaponizing 222 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,559 our government against us. He's got the DOJ and the 223 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,000 Department of Education in pieces. He's got a plumber running 224 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,039 the Department of Homeland Security. He is surrounded by sick 225 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,720 of fans, and all he talks about is himself, not America. 226 00:14:26,039 --> 00:14:29,120 Unless he's linking the two. He has to be part 227 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,080 of the equation. Recently, he did like an interview where 228 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,480 he was asked what he reads when you're reading about 229 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,679 the world. And by the way, this man does not read. 230 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,799 He doesn't read. He gets all of his information by 231 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:45,799 watching TV. Right, he has to be spoon fed. I 232 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,600 guarantee you this man does not read. But his answer was, well, 233 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:53,399 you know, I read lots of news stories, mostly the 234 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,600 ones about me. So we live in the United States 235 00:14:58,639 --> 00:15:03,440 of me and more me. What am I proud of? 236 00:15:04,039 --> 00:15:06,519 What am I proud of? Our allies are issuing her, 237 00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:11,039 former allies are issuing. Travel warnings. Be careful if you 238 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,519 travel to the United States, because you could get messed up? 239 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:20,120 What am I proud of? We're declaring ideological war and 240 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,879 often real war on people of other nations with no accountability. 241 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:28,159 What am I proud of? The leader of this country 242 00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:37,559 is labeling entire demographics garbage people, garbage people. A racist, sexist, sociopathic, 243 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,440 grifting manchild of extreme privilege has taken over the United States? 244 00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:45,879 What am I proud of? And I know that you 245 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,639 may feel the same, and I wish it wasn't the case. 246 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,559 I agree. What was it that Martin Luther King Junior said? Right, 247 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,759 I don't criticize America because I hate her. I criticize 248 00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:01,159 her because I love her. I want her to see 249 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,679 the best version of itself. That's a paraphrase. I'm doing 250 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:07,080 it from memory. I should have pulled up the quote directly, 251 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,080 but you can look it up. And that's the gist. Right, 252 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,279 I criticize because I love her In that way, I 253 00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:18,039 don't feel affection, but I do want the United States 254 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:23,720 to heal and reverse course and achieve the best version 255 00:16:23,799 --> 00:16:27,919 of itself. In that sense, do I love my country? 256 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,240 I love it in the way that I would love 257 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,679 a loved one who is life had gone off the 258 00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:36,600 rails and I say, man, I sure would like to 259 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,240 see them recover and be better and do better, right. 260 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,679 I would love to see them maximize the best versions 261 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,720 of themselves and spread goodness into this world. I care 262 00:16:49,879 --> 00:16:52,159 about them in that way. So in that way, I 263 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,120 love my country. But in some ways the two hundred 264 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,759 and fifty it feels like a funeral, doesn't it. It feels 265 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,279 like a funeral. Well, doctor Christen Dumay, who is a Christian. 266 00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:06,759 She is a Christian, but she's also a fierce champion 267 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:11,359 for state church separation. She recently released a piece that 268 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,559 invoked Civil War era civil rights icon Frederick Douglass and 269 00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:20,880 talked about how the slaves might have felt about the 270 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:25,599 United States as everybody else was handover heart, bloviating about 271 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,960 greatness and how you know, if you're a slave in 272 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,319 this country, you're not exactly singing the songs of liberty. 273 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,920 And when I read it, I thought, wow, this is remarkable. 274 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,480 She did a great job of summing up what I 275 00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:43,640 was thinking and how I was feeling. Let me take 276 00:17:43,799 --> 00:17:46,200 a very short break and I'll come back with a 277 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,039 piece that published just today called Oppression makes a Wise 278 00:17:51,160 --> 00:18:04,559 Man Mad. With her permission, allow me to read for You, 279 00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:08,240 an article that was published today, the fourth of July, 280 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,960 on the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary by doctor Christin Dumay, 281 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,039 a historian of gender, faith politics and author of the 282 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,000 New York Times best selling book Jesus and John Wayne. 283 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,359 She is a believer, and she is also a humanist 284 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,079 and fierce advocate for justice, state, church separation, and basic 285 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,960 human decency. I am a fan of doctor Christin Dumay 286 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,160 and with her blessing. The words that she wrote, which 287 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,519 I have linked in the description box are these. Earlier 288 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,279 this week, a Gallup survey reported that quote American pride 289 00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:51,200 falls to twenty five year record low. It's especially low 290 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:55,400 among Democrats and independents. There are all sorts of reasons 291 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,039 for this, some obvious and others perhaps less obvious, but 292 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,160 it's worth pointing out that pride in one's nation and 293 00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:05,880 love for that nation are not the same thing. I'm 294 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,799 not particularly proud of my country right now, but I 295 00:19:08,839 --> 00:19:11,119 think it's fair to say that I've never felt more 296 00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:15,039 patriotic because I love this country. I think it's worth 297 00:19:15,079 --> 00:19:19,799 fighting for. All week, I found myself wavering between celebration 298 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,559 and lament. If you listened on our live episode of 299 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,400 the Convocation unscripted on Thursday. You heard all of us 300 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,559 moving back and forth between the two what is and 301 00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:35,200 what could be. We dreamed of what we could be celebrating, 302 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,880 But by yesterday my positivity had faltered. I started to 303 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,319 draft a more sober posts for today, titled what We Lost, 304 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,160 thinking it was perhaps best to save that for another day. 305 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,039 I tried to return to a sense of optimism, or 306 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:54,920 at the very least, resilience. At the very least. I 307 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,359 thought I could write about what I was going to 308 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,160 do to celebrate. I'm hoping to take at least one 309 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,039 kid to the celebration and historical reenactments at the gerald 310 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:07,200 Ford Museum here in Grand Rapids. And I could share 311 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,079 a recipe I found online that I hope to make, 312 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,680 or better yet, get my daughter to make. That's a 313 00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,640 layer of cheesecake in the middle, by the way, and 314 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,880 she's got a photograph of something that looks delicious, she says. 315 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,839 I thought I could also share a couple of verses 316 00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:27,279 of America, the beautiful versus that hold intention, the nation's 317 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,599 promise and its shortcomings. So beautiful for pilgrim feet whose 318 00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:37,400 stern impassioned stress a thoroughfare for freedom beat across the 319 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:44,000 wilderness America, America. God mend thine every flaw, confirm thy 320 00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:48,559 soul and self control, Thy liberty in law, Oh beautiful, 321 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,039 for heroes proved in liberating strife, who more than self 322 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,200 their country, love and mercy more than life. America America. 323 00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:03,440 May God thy gold fine till all success be nobleness 324 00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:09,160 and every gain divine. But then came this video across 325 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,319 my feet. It is a recitation of Frederick Douglas's What 326 00:21:13,559 --> 00:21:16,799 to the Slave is the fourth of July by his 327 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:20,559 own descendants, and that is linked in the description box. 328 00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:22,519 And I encourage you to go back and watch this 329 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,119 on YouTube. I will read the words myself, but it's 330 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,039 pretty remarkable. Douglas holds the nation up to the standards 331 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:32,559 of their founding, to the ideals they celebrated with their 332 00:21:32,599 --> 00:21:36,599 picnics and fireworks, and he finds it woefully wanting. He 333 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,519 doesn't flinch from the darkness, but he ends with a 334 00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:42,759 gritty and hard earned hope. By the way, I am 335 00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:48,799 a huge fan of Frederick Douglas. His values were secular values. 336 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,759 He was a fierce critic of religion. The article says 337 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:55,599 he writes in a different time and addresses a different 338 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,759 set of circumstances, but not entirely different. I found the 339 00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:02,880 words words resonating with me this year in a different way. 340 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,640 Oppression makes a wise man mad, Douglas said to the 341 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,240 crowd of white Americans. He said, your fathers were wise men, 342 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,599 and if they did not go mad, they became restive 343 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,519 under this treatment. They felt themselves the victims of grievous wrongs, 344 00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:25,559 wholly incurable in their colonial capacity. With brave men, there 345 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:29,400 was always a remedy for oppression. Just here the idea 346 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,119 of total separation of the colonies from the crown was born. 347 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,880 It was a startling idea, much more so than we 348 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,160 at this distance of time regarded the timid and the prudent, 349 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,519 as has been intimated of that day, were of course 350 00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:48,640 shocked and alarmed by it. Citizens, your fathers made good 351 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,759 that resolution. They succeeded, and today you reap the fruits 352 00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:56,359 of their success, the freedom gained as yours, and you 353 00:22:56,559 --> 00:23:01,200 therefore may properly celebrate this anniversary. The fourth of July 354 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,519 is the first great fact in your nation's history, the 355 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,680 very ring bolt in the chain of your yet undeveloped destiny. 356 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,720 The whole scene, as I look back to it, was simple, dignified, 357 00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:16,079 and sublime. The population of the country at the time 358 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:21,440 stood at the insignificant number of three millions. The country 359 00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:25,039 was poor in the munitions of war, the population was 360 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,039 weak and scattered, and the country a wilderness unsubdued. There 361 00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:33,519 were then no means of concert and combinations such as 362 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:37,119 exists now. Neither steam nor lightning had been reduced to 363 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,640 order and discipline. From the Potomac to the Delaware was 364 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:46,079 a journey of many days under these and innumerable other disadvantages. 365 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:52,880 Your fathers declared for liberty and independence and triumphed fellow citizens. 366 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,960 I'm not wanting in respect for the fathers of this republic. 367 00:23:56,519 --> 00:24:00,039 The signers of the Declaration of Independence were brave men. 368 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,200 They were great men, too great enough to give fame 369 00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,039 to a great age. It does not often happen to 370 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:08,599 a nation to raise at one time such a number 371 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,559 of truly great men. The point from which I am 372 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,640 compelled to view them is not certainly the most favorable, 373 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,599 and yet I cannot contemplate their great deeds with less 374 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,039 than admiration. They were statesmen, patriots, and heroes, and for 375 00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:25,680 the good they did, and the principles they contended for. 376 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:29,960 I will unite with you to honor their memory. They 377 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,359 loved their country better than their own private interests. And 378 00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:36,640 though this is not the highest form of human excellence, 379 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:39,680 all will concede that it is a rare virtue, and 380 00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:43,680 when it's exhibited, it ought to command respect. He who 381 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,200 will intelligently lay down his life or his country is 382 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,279 a man whom it is not in human nature to despise. 383 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,119 Your father staked their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred 384 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,599 honor on the cause of their country. In their admiration 385 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,960 of liberty, they lost sight of all other interests. They 386 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,680 were peace men, but they preferred revolution to peaceful submission 387 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,079 to bondage. They were quiet men, but they did not 388 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,720 shrink from agitating against oppression. They showed forbearance, but they 389 00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:18,400 knew its limits. They believed in order, but not in 390 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,759 the order of tyranny. With them, nothing was settled that 391 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,400 was not right. With them. Justice, liberty, and humanity were final, 392 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,279 not slavery and oppression. You may well cherish the memory 393 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,400 of such men. They were great in their day and generation. 394 00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:39,720 Their solid manhood stands out the more as we contrast 395 00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:45,759 it with these degenerate times. How circumspect, exact, and proportionate 396 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,279 were all their movements. How unlike the politicians of an hour, 397 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,960 their statesmanship looked beyond the passing moment and stretched away 398 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:59,519 and strength into the distant future. They seized upon eternal 399 00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:04,000 principle and set a glorious example in their defense. Mark them, 400 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,880 fully appreciating the hardships to be encountered, firmly believing in 401 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,599 the right of their cause, honorably inviting the scrutiny of 402 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,640 an onlooking world, reverently appealing to Heaven to attest their sincerity, 403 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,400 soundly comprehending the solemn responsibility they were about to assume, 404 00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:27,359 wisely measuring the terrible odds against them. Your fathers, the 405 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,119 fathers of this Republic, did most deliberately, under the inspiration 406 00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:35,960 of a glorious patriotism, and with a sublime faith in 407 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,880 the great principles of justice and freedom, lay deep the 408 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,880 cornerstone of the national superstructure, which has risen and still 409 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:48,640 rises in grandeur around you. We have to do with 410 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,319 the past only as we make it useful to the 411 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,880 present and to the future. I say it with a 412 00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:59,119 sad sense of the disparity between us. I am not 413 00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:04,319 included within the pale of this glorious anniversary. Your high 414 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,640 independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. The blessings 415 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,279 in which you this day rejoice are not enjoyed in common. 416 00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:18,759 The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity, and independence bequeathed 417 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:22,000 by your fathers is shared by you, not by me. 418 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,680 The sunlight that brought life and healing to you has 419 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,319 brought stripes and death to me. This fourth July is yours, 420 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,640 not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn at a 421 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,480 time like this, scorching irony. Not convincing argument is needed. 422 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,720 Oh had I the ability and could I reach the 423 00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:47,799 nation's ear, I would today pour out a fiery stream 424 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,559 of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. 425 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,119 For it is not light that is needed, but fire. 426 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,400 It is not the gentle shower but thunder. You need 427 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,400 the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake. The feeling of 428 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,880 the nation must be quickened, The conscience of the nation 429 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:11,960 must be roused, The propriety of the nation must be startled. 430 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,839 The hypocrisy of the nation must be exposed, and its 431 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,759 crimes against God and man must be proclaimed and denounced. 432 00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:23,559 What to the American slave is the fourth of July 433 00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:27,640 I answer a day that reveals to him, more than 434 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,799 all other days in the year, the gross injustice and 435 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,640 cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, 436 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:40,200 your celebration is a sham, Your boasted liberty, an unholy license, 437 00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:45,880 Your national greatness swelling vanity. Your sounds are rejoicing, are 438 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,599 empty and heartless. Your denunciations of tyrants, brass fronted impudence. 439 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,880 Your shouts of liberty and equality hollow mockery. Your prayers 440 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,799 and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings with you, your religious 441 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:07,079 parade and solemnity are to him mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, 442 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,480 and hypocrisy, a thin veil to cover up crimes which 443 00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:15,559 would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a 444 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,960 nation on this earth guilty of practices more shocking and 445 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:22,799 bloody than are the people of these United States at 446 00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:27,079 this very hour. Go where you may search, Where you 447 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,880 will roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the 448 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,119 old world. Travel through South America, search out every abuse, 449 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,319 and when you found the last, Lay your facts by 450 00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:41,440 the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and 451 00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,440 you will say with me that for revolting barbarity and 452 00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:51,200 shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival. At the very 453 00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:54,160 moment that they are thanking God for the enjoyment of 454 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,359 civil and religious liberty and for the right to worship 455 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,119 God according to the dictates of their own count they 456 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,599 are utterly silent in respect to a law which robs 457 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,759 religion of its chief significance and makes it utterly worthless 458 00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:12,559 to a world lying in wickedness. But the Church of 459 00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:15,359 this country is not only indifferent to the wrongs of 460 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,960 the slave, it actually takes sides with the oppressors. It 461 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,519 has made itself the bulwark of American slavery and the 462 00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:28,720 shield of American slave hunters. Many of its most eloquent divines, 463 00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:31,440 who stand as the very lights of the Church, have 464 00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:35,039 shamelessly given the sanction of religion and the Bible to 465 00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:39,000 the whole slave system. They've taught that man may properly 466 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,079 be a slave, that the relation of masterman slave is 467 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,319 ordained of God, that to send back an escaped bondman 468 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,920 to his master is clearly the duty of all the 469 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,960 followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, and this horrible blasphemy 470 00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:58,640 is palmed off upon the world for Christianity. For my part, 471 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,920 I would say, welcome infidelity, Welcome atheism, Welcome anything in 472 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,519 preference to the Gospel as preached by those diminds. They 473 00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:12,079 convert the very name of religion into an engine of 474 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:16,960 tyranny and barbarous cruelty, and serve to confirm more infidels 475 00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:20,799 in this age that all the infidel writings of Thomas Paine, 476 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,000 Voltaire and Bowlingbroke put together have done. These ministers make 477 00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:30,240 religion a cold and flinty hearted thing, having neither principles 478 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,400 of right action nor bowels of compassion. They strip the 479 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,079 love of God of its beauty, and leave the throne 480 00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:41,279 of religion a huge, horrible, repulsive form. It is a 481 00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:46,720 religion for oppressors, tyrants, man stealers, and thugs. It is 482 00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:50,599 not that pure and undefiled religion which is from above, 483 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:55,279 and which is first pure, then peaceable, easy to be entreated, 484 00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:59,880 full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hippocri, 485 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,119 but a religion which favors the rich against the poor, 486 00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:07,839 which exalts the proud above the humble, which divides mankind 487 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,240 into two classes, tyrants and slaves, which says to the 488 00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:16,559 man in chains, stay there, and to the oppressor oppress on. 489 00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:20,319 It is a religion which may be professed and enjoyed 490 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:23,880 by all the robbers and enslavers of mankind. It makes 491 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,359 God a respector of persons, denies his fatherhood of that race, 492 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,519 and tramples in the dust the great truth of the 493 00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:35,559 brotherhood of man. All this we affirm to be true 494 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,640 of the popular Church and the popular worship of our 495 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,359 land and nation. A religion, a church, and a worship which, 496 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,799 on the authority of inspired wisdom, we pronounce to be 497 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000 an abomination in the sight of God. In the language 498 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,599 of Isaiah, the American Church might well be addressed, bring 499 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,240 no more vain oblations. Incense is an abomination unto me. 500 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,039 The new moons and sam the calling of assemblies I 501 00:33:02,079 --> 00:33:06,839 cannot away with. It is antiquity. Even the solemn meeting, 502 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,000 your new moons and your appointed feasts, My soul hateist. 503 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,240 They're a trouble to me. I am weary to bear them. 504 00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:18,240 And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide 505 00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:22,440 mine eyes from you. Yeay, when you make many prayers, 506 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,279 I will not hear your hands are full of blood. 507 00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:30,920 Cease to do evil, learn to do well, Seek judgment, 508 00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:35,279 Relieve the oppressed, Judge for the fatherless, plead for the widow. 509 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,920 My spirit wearies of such blasphemy. And how such men 510 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,119 can be supported as the standing types and representatives of 511 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,480 Jesus Christ is a mystery which I leave others to penetrate. Americans, 512 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,640 your Republican politics, not less than your Republican religion, are 513 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,920 flagrantly inconsistent. Your boast of your love of liberty, your 514 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,799 superior civilization, and your pure Christianity. While the whole political 515 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,759 power of the nation has embodied and the two great 516 00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:11,119 political parties is solemnly pledged to support and perpetuate the 517 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,480 enslavement of three million of your countrymen. You hurl your 518 00:34:16,559 --> 00:34:20,440 anathemis at the crowned headed tyrants of Russia and Austria, 519 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,599 and pride yourselves on your democratic institutions, while you yourselves 520 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:28,800 contend to be the mere tools and bodyguards of the 521 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,920 tyrants of Virginia and Carolina. Fellow citizens, I will not 522 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:39,480 enlarge further on your national inconsistencies. The existence of slavery 523 00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:43,519 in this country brands your Republicanism as a sham, your 524 00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:48,440 humanity is a base pretense, and your Christianity as a lie. 525 00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:53,599 It destroys your moral power abroad, It corrupts your politicians 526 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,039 at home. It SAPs the foundation of religion. It makes 527 00:34:57,079 --> 00:35:00,960 your name a hissing and a byword to a mocking earth. 528 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,800 It is an antagonistic force, and your government the only 529 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,719 thing that seriously disturbs and endangers your union. It fetters 530 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,960 your progress. It is the enemy of improvement, the deadly 531 00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:17,840 foe of education. It fosters pride, it breeds insolence, It 532 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,679 promotes vice, It shelters crime. It is a curse to 533 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,159 the earth that supports it, and yet you cling to 534 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,719 it as if it were the sheet anchor of all 535 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:33,800 your hopes. Oh, be warned, Be warned. A horrible reptile 536 00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:37,800 is coiled up in your nation's bosom. The venomous creature 537 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,079 is nursing at the tender breast of your youthful republic. 538 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,480 For the love of God, tear away and fling from 539 00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:47,519 you this hideous monster, and let the weight of twenty 540 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,960 millions crush and destroy it forever. Allow me to say 541 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,719 in conclusion, notwithstanding the dark picture I have this day 542 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,480 presented of the state of the Union, I do not 543 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,679 despair of this country. There are forces in operation which 544 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,039 must inevitably work the downfall of slavery. The arm of 545 00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:10,800 the Lord is not shortened, and the doom of slavery 546 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,760 is certain. I therefore leave off where I began with hope, 547 00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:20,599 while drawing encouragement from the Declaration of Independence, the great 548 00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:25,079 principles it contains, and the genius of American institutions. My 549 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,719 spirit is also cheered by the obvious tendencies of the age. 550 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:37,119 God speed the year of Jubilee. Now, Frederick Douglas was 551 00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:40,559 a complicated man. I believe he was devoutly Christian, and 552 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,199 his religious beliefs kind of shifted. You heard some invocations 553 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,800 of God in the writings that I just read. But 554 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,239 he was also the guy who was a tremendous admirer 555 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:57,280 of the atheist and brilliant writer Robert green Engersol. Ultimately, 556 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,679 the message about Douglas is he was a human sanitarian 557 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,719 and humanist first, and he was a fierce champion for 558 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,199 the oppressed and a fierce critic of the oppressors. And 559 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,760 his words can be applied in so many other contexts 560 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,719 or related context today. I wonder what Frederick Douglass would 561 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,760 have said, and he looked around today, on our two 562 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:25,039 hundred and fiftieth and seen what we have become. Whether 563 00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:27,760 you celebrate or not, whether you fly the flag or not, 564 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,400 just know that you are seen and heard. If you 565 00:37:30,599 --> 00:37:33,880 grieve about where we have come and where we might 566 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,679 still go, and yet you hold on to a sliver 567 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,119 of hope that if we keep fighting, maybe we can 568 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,800 reverse or alter course and become one day a nation 569 00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:49,679 we can truly be proud of. Thank you so much 570 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:50,239 for listening. 571 00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:54,079 Speaker 1: Follow The Thanking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a 572 00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:57,760 complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and 573 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,400 t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist 574 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,159 pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events 575 00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:12,400 and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.