WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.279 Welcome to the nonprofits. For our fourth and final story 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:05.240 this week, we take a look at what a Christian 3 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.480 seminary student had to say about the Black Lives Matter movement. 4 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:11.960 Black Lives Matter movement, I'm sure it's a very fair 5 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.240 and considerate op ed piece, Jonathan Ruttabush. 6 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:16.359 Let's dive right in. 7 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:20.519 Yeah, the op ed is trying to associate Black Lives 8 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:26.800 Matter movements relevance in the society with the acquittal of 9 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:29.480 a white man in the death of a black man, 10 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:32.759 trying to frame it in racial terms. But was it 11 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:35.799 did BLM have anything to do with the case of 12 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:40.600 homeless man Jordan Neely, a black man who was asphyxiated 13 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.479 by a white former marine, Daniel Perry, on basically a 14 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:49.560 train on a subway. So the entire article is weirdly 15 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.200 saying that BLM is fading because of fading from the 16 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:56.960 public consciousness. Because a man who has skilled enough to 17 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:00.679 use a choke hold to subt do someone is acquitted 18 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.200 in court, so twelve jurors represent the entire populace of 19 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.799 New York City. He choked him for about six minutes 20 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:12.200 trying to subdue him. Note, most people are unconscious if 21 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.640 they are healthy and fit in ten seconds if they're 22 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.120 if you're using a stranglehold which cuts off the blood 23 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.319 supply to the brain and the airway. But we don't 24 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:24.680 know if that's what he did. A video showed that 25 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:28.920 it was improperly if and not consistently applied. This was 26 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:36.239 evaluated by the same marine who had taught combat to 27 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.439 Penny himself. So the writer said that Penny's acquittal was 28 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:44.120 a sign that the US public no longer believes the 29 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:49.439 lying rhetoric of Marxist BLM movement. Was this the case? 30 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:52.560 Was this case about race? Or was it about a 31 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:56.400 mentally ill homeless man acting out on a subway and 32 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.400 threatening people. When Jordan threatened the pregnant woman, Daniel Petty 33 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:03.359 acted to protect her. That DA saw that differently and 34 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:08.039 prosecuted Penny for negligent homicide and manslaughter. The manslaughter charge 35 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:11.560 was dropped, an example of the spin that Wolf states, 36 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:16.080 BLM from its inception has proven itself not just about 37 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.520 advocating for racial justice, but also as a vehicle for 38 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:24.599 promoting anti American and anti white rhetoric, division and chaos. 39 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:26.719 Not biased at all. What do you guys think? 40 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:29.560 Well, before we find out what we think, Jonathan, I 41 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:31.759 want to hear a little bit more about what you think. First, 42 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:35.759 the author said, quote, Penny employed a chokehold, which you've 43 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:38.879 mentioned a technique from his military training in what was 44 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:42.080 clearly an active self defense of others. Okay, So that 45 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:45.599 was the quote from the op ed, And I assume 46 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:47.919 that he's kind of implying that the force that he 47 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:50.759 was using was appropriate and not excessive. So you're a 48 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.240 military man, what can you comment on that? 49 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.599 Well, there's two types of things he chokes, which is 50 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:01.199 just airway obstruction. Can take up to several minutes to 51 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:05.960 render a well conditioned person unconscious. It depends on the person, 52 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:12.360 you know, and how the choke is apply. Strangles or 53 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.800 strangulation is about cutting off the blood supply, and that 54 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:19.800 happens within seconds because no blood of the brain, no consciousness. 55 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:25.240 So and it basically compresses the cartoid artery and the 56 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.639 juggly veins, making sure that no blame blood goes in 57 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.879 or out of the head. So that's what happens. It 58 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:37.520 can also compress the airway, the trachea, the larynx, and 59 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:43.599 so that can also cause asphyxia. The said Asphix. You 60 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.599 so I assume he was cutting the airway, but I 61 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.599 have no way of knowing for sure, Marie. The Marines 62 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.520 I worked with when I was in the anfib Navy, 63 00:03:54.680 --> 00:04:00.680 I believe they use strangleholds in combat training, as as 64 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.280 described above. If he was still moving after several minutes, 65 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.759 the hold was either improperly applied or just a show cold. 66 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:13.039 In either case, Penny should have known that holding either 67 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:17.600 one of those types of chokes more than two to 68 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:21.639 three minutes could possibly result in permanent brain damage or 69 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.480 damage to the individual. Evidently he was not looking at 70 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:28.480 his watch, and I wonder why not. Yeah, yeah, but 71 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:30.800 you know, people react the way they're trained, is the 72 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.120 last thing I'll say for this go. 73 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:36.480 So was he acting appropriate to his training? The amount 74 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:38.639 of force that he used was that to be expected. 75 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.160 I would expect that if he was acting as he 76 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:47.439 was trained, he probably was doing the best he could 77 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.800 in that situation with the restrictions of the space that 78 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.879 he was in. But then again, I wasn't there, so 79 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:56.560 I'm and I'm not an expert in hand to gain combat, 80 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:00.399 So you know, I couldn't say whether or not he 81 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.759 did it right. But apparently his instructor said he didn't, so, okay, 82 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.480 well you have a. 83 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:07.160 Dead guy, right. 84 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:10.759 Somebody died because of this and that brings me Steve, 85 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.279 and I wanted to ask you following the following about 86 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:15.639 Daniel Penny's acquittal. 87 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:18.000 This is what the author had to say. 88 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:20.720 His active courage protecting the vulnerable in a moment of 89 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.639 chaos resonance with the Christian call to stand up for 90 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.240 one's neighbor in times of need. Now a man is 91 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:29.319 now dead because Penny stood up. Do you think that 92 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:32.319 the acquittal of Daniel Penny is in alignment with the 93 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.680 morality and dictates of Christianity, or rather, I should say, 94 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:37.199 the professed. 95 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.399 Morality and dictates of Christianity. Do you think that? Do 96 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:40.319 you think things line up? 97 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:40.560 Is this? 98 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:43.839 Is he judging that correctly? Then he will say to 99 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.240 those on his left, depart from me, you who are 100 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.279 cursed into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil and 101 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.920 his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me 102 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.160 nothing to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me 103 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:56.360 nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did 104 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:58.920 not invite me in. I needed clothes and you did 105 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.279 not clothe me. I was sick and in prison, and 106 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.639 you did not look after me. And they will answer, Lord, 107 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:08.000 when did we see you hungry, thirsty, a stranger, needing clothes, 108 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.720 sick in prison and did not help you? And he 109 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.879 will reply, Truly, I tell you, whatever you did not 110 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:16.519 do for one of the least of these, you did 111 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.600 not do for me. Then they will go away into 112 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:23.160 eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. 113 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:26.839 How telling? How telling for the Christian Post to run 114 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:31.560 this story, because there was nothing nothing christ like about this. 115 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:36.800 He was protecting his neighbors from being uncomfortable by a 116 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:40.160 problem that we all have to face. You know, what's 117 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.800 not going to solve homelessness, Scott being protected from it 118 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.120 being having homeless people killed in front of us is 119 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:50.040 not going to actually address the homelessness issue, right, But 120 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:53.480 the privileged white guy kills a marginalized black man and 121 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:56.240 got away with it. And this is antithetical to the 122 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.879 gospel that the Christian Post is supposed to be promoting. 123 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.079 How telling? How unsurprising? 124 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:02.560 Yeah, I'm not surprising at all. 125 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.079 I mean we see these kind of stories prop up 126 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.680 fairly often, you know, and it would be it would 127 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:13.199 be refreshing to hear some Christians complaining about it rather 128 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:16.560 than just you know, a nonprofits atheists show and on 129 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:18.360 you know once a week. 130 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:20.319 Right, I want to go over to Kelly for a 131 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:21.319 second real quick here. 132 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:23.920 So this piece spends a lot of time talking and 133 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:28.160 promoting kind of in us versus them them Outlook, So 134 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:31.600 is this some sort of spiritual axis and allies. 135 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:32.000 That they're talking about. 136 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:34.519 What are your thoughts on this chasm that's between the 137 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:38.160 religious right and uh and and well pretty much everyone else, 138 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:39.720 you know, What's what's the deal there? 139 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:43.160 Yeah, I think you judged that pretty well. There is 140 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:48.439 there is a movement to make the Christian right be 141 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:54.040 better and more moral than everybody else. And I think 142 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.680 there is a chasm there. I think that chasm is 143 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:59.720 growing wider and wider and wider. But I think they're 144 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.920 the doing it. I think they're ones who created that chasm, 145 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:06.560 and they're the ones who are making it larger. One 146 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.399 of the things that he said in the article was 147 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.360 it's time to move forward, focusing on true equality, not 148 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:17.839 on reversing racial injustices with new ones. And I saw 149 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:19.759 that and what I read from there. Now, I don't 150 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.639 know if you know anything about the author. I looked 151 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:24.319 into his background a little bit. He's just a rich 152 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:26.680 white guy from the South. He's got a history of 153 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.800 his family being rich white guys from the South. So 154 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:32.600 what I read between the lines was, I know it 155 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:35.399 was people just like me, you know, rich white guys 156 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.519 from the South that kept literally kept people like you. 157 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.600 But please don't hold that against me now, right, It 158 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:45.759 seems like nothing for an excuse, but for why this 159 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:49.360 dangerous black man was justified in being killed by this 160 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:54.039 heroic white guy, right, and one other things, I don't 161 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.960 think I'm not surprised that he was acquitted. I don't 162 00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:59.159 know a lot of people know. I'm a history buff. 163 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:01.440 I remember a lot of things when I was growing 164 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:04.000 up to But in the eighties in New York City 165 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:06.960 on the subway, there was a guy who shot four 166 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.000 young black men. His name was Bernard Getz, and he 167 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.879 actually chased one of the men down through three cars 168 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.399 and shot him in the back. And he was acquitted 169 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:17.879 of all four of those killings. So this didn't surprise 170 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:20.039 me at all, Jonathan. 171 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.759 So this is our third story this week about violence 172 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:28.039 being committed by conservative Christians basically, and so coming from 173 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.519 the God is Love crowd, this seems counter message, as 174 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.360 Stephen was talking about before, and we also talked about 175 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.960 earlier in our earlier segments. This week, Kelly mentioned something 176 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.879 about he used the analogy of a cornered animal respond 177 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.919 you know, reacting and you know, feeling feeling pressured and 178 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:50.200 responding violently that way, Why do you think that these 179 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:51.799 people are being so violent? 180 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:53.519 And is this gonna get. 181 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:55.720 Worse or is it going to get you know, I mean, 182 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:59.320 is it going to reach a maximum pointer? Where is 183 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:02.519 this leading as far as interacting with other human beings? 184 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:08.000 Well, first off, I'm not sure if mister Penny was 185 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:11.679 a Christian or not. It doesn't really I don't think 186 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:12.360 it says. 187 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:13.200 That does a good point. 188 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.519 That's a good point, and the fact they were accenting 189 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.639 the fact he was a marine. Marines are are extremely 190 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:25.200 good fighters. They're trained to fight there, they're trained in 191 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:29.600 how to have good judgment about the situation, to react 192 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:36.720 appropriately with appropriate measures. So I when when that marine 193 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:40.360 describes the situation and why he did what he did, 194 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.480 which he did in this article, well briefly in this 195 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:47.200 article I read a few other things, but I have 196 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:50.679 a very biased opinion that I believe him. I believe 197 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:52.840 that that's what he thought at the time, that he 198 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:57.759 thought that not only was the passengers threatened, but that 199 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.679 once he had taken action, that he was also threatened 200 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.600 because of the position he was in, and he was 201 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.679 trying to control that. He felt he was in a 202 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:10.840 vulnerable position. If I'm not that kind of fighter, you know, 203 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.759 I don't do that kind of thing on a regular basis. 204 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:18.879 I'm not trained like that. People behave the way they're trained. 205 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:24.159 Firemen run towards a fire, police run towards an assault, 206 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.200 you know. The Marines, you know, run towards an enemy 207 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.120 or and deal with a problem that way. So this 208 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:34.519 is just a training mindset, you know. I can't fault 209 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.480 him for that. You know, I don't think it was 210 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.120 racially motivated. This guy came on, was yelling and screaming, 211 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.559 was obviously mentally disturbed, and then got in the face 212 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.080 of a pregnant woman. At that point, he had enough 213 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.440 and he said, that's it. I'm done. I'm going to 214 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:52.279 take this guy down and just you know, wait for 215 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.559 the police to get here. Right. Unfortunately, he didn't let up, 216 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:59.879 like but you know, that could be training too. Marines 217 00:11:59.879 --> 00:12:03.519 aren't used to letting people live, you know, unless they're 218 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.759 told to specifically, you know, So it's it's like, I'm 219 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:10.360 not an expert on the Marine Corps either, but the 220 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:14.639 military training is pretty intense for these guys, and the 221 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:19.200 experiences are pretty intense. So in that light, you know, 222 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.200 I tend to believe him when he says that. However, 223 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.679 you know, the christianization of the fight here them using 224 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.039 this as us versus them episode. The more we hear that, 225 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:34.600 the more I, like you asked, I'm afraid it's going 226 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:39.480 to get worse. This emboldens people, you know, Oh, I 227 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:41.960 can I can kill these people because I'm not going 228 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.000 to get convicted. And we keep showing them that over 229 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.799 and over again. So this is going to get worse 230 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.120 and before it gets better, and we have to we 231 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.200 have to mobilize what we can to combat that. And 232 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.600 you know, like we were talking about earlier, BLM is 233 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.240 is an organization that I don't think we can afford 234 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.240 to let fade away. I think we need to make 235 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:08.840 sure that it's still alive and kicking. 236 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.039 Excellent transition to my next question. 237 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:14.240 This one's going to go over to Steve and hopefully 238 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.200 looks like we're having a little bit of technical issues 239 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.399 there hopefully we can get some more of Steven's words 240 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.039 on this. The title of the piece is the Age 241 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.919 of BLM is Over. What do you think he meant 242 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:26.200 by that? 243 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:32.399 Like buzzwords? Like like, on the one hand, like this 244 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:35.360 is something that has struck me just recently, you know, 245 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.639 because of Oh, I am sorry, I'm forgetting his name 246 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.159 now in twenty twenty, the black man who was killed 247 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:46.000 by the police officer Lloyd. What was his name again, 248 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.840 George Floyd, Yeah, George Floyd. You know, when George Floyd 249 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.120 was murdered, then there was uproar and that's when we 250 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.759 all knew about BLM. And now another black man has 251 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.120 been murdered and there isn't an uproar, and and like, 252 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:05.279 I like, maybe that's that's a piece of it that huh, 253 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.159 finally we can. But I think the meat of the 254 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:14.000 article points to something far more pedantic and inane, the 255 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:18.879 idea that this Marxist ideology of you know, anti white 256 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.480 racism is coming to an end. And just like like 257 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:27.000 obviously that perspective is completely skewed and doesn't have a 258 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:29.600 place in thinking society. 259 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.279 But yeah, so do you think the author was taking 260 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.279 advantage of of an event that happened in order to 261 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:39.559 take a poke at one of his favorite targets. 262 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.679 Yeah, maybe he had a writing maybe he had a 263 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:43.720 writing deadline. He's like, what can I do? What can 264 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:45.759 I what land can I put on this that will 265 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.519 get clicks and get this article picked up? And this 266 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.080 was the tripe that he was able to spew out. 267 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.240 I don't think it's I think it was a far 268 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.120 far reach for him to pretend that this was some 269 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.360 kind of earnest observation that he was making. 270 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.960 I think he using the choking death right. What happened 271 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.600 to George Floyd, what started to b l M movement 272 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:09.279 was him getting choked at death. So now here here, 273 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.120 here's here's another black man getting choked at that. The 274 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:15.759 white guy gets acquitted. So obviously the message is and 275 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.279 it seems like what he's saying in the article is 276 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.600 the messages it's okay to choke black men. 277 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.600 That that interesting. 278 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:25.120 Yeah, And another thing about the whole thing that's a 279 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:29.399 tragedy is that this this this poor man was mentally 280 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:33.320 ill and having and homeless. He was hungry and he 281 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:37.240 needed everything. He needed clothing, he needed a bath, he 282 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.679 needed a place to sleep. He was he was upset 283 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.720 about that. He was ranting about it, and rather than 284 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:47.399 have a system, the failure of our social support system 285 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:52.840 and addition to the innate racism in society at large, 286 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:58.879 was I think the real cause of his death, because 287 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.600 he should have been treated in a hospital or treated 288 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:06.759 in a mental health facility, be given all the food 289 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.039 he needs, be given clothing, being given shoes if he 290 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.000 needs them. That's what should have happened. And then he 291 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.799 wouldn't have been on that train. He would have forced 292 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.759 the doors open and came in ranting about being hungry 293 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.440 and you know, and not caring if he was going 294 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.519 to go to jail, because at least he get food, 295 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.759 you know, I mean the guy, you know, he should 296 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.799 have been helped, no period. You know, there's no excuse 297 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.799 for our society allowing these people to just die. I know, 298 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.039 they don't like looking at them, and they don't like 299 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.679 them in their parks, and they we've done stories before 300 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.360 about governments trying to move them into camps outside of 301 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.679 the city limits so they don't have to look at them. 302 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:50.120 But these are real human beings and they deserve to 303 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.720 be treated like human beings and with respect and dignity 304 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:57.840 and the lack of that is what torques me the most. 305 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.399 You know, it's just this trial and that I have 306 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.640 a lot of opinions about that, as I've already stated, 307 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.880 but as a last note, the failure of our government 308 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.319 to take care of them uh and uh, and to 309 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:15.880 take care of the veterans as well. You know, when 310 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:19.880 they get out after going into battle conditions and coming back, 311 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.000 they're they're not caught up with the mental health of 312 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.519 the military people that came back yet. I don't know 313 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.400 if this gentleman has PTSD or anything. I don't think so, 314 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:31.880 because the way he acted, I think he was fine. 315 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:34.240 But a lot of others are still hanging out, and 316 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.079 a lot of them are those homeless people. 317 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.839 So so you're saying that this was a foreseeable and 318 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:46.279 an avoidable circumstance and that and that really just we 319 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.640 just dropped the ball, basically, just the United States government 320 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:53.000 dropped the ball here and and let this thing happen. 321 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:54.640 Is that what you're is that kind of what you're 322 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:55.119 getting at. 323 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:56.960 I'm saying that it's intentional as well. 324 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.960 Oh okay, let's then let's take that thought over to 325 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.039 Stephen then. So so if we're seeing if what we 326 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.799 see is increase not only increased violence and conflict and 327 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.440 you know, headbutting and that kind of thing, but an 328 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.720 increased tolerance for that kind of thing. People are are 329 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.880 finding it more and more acceptable to talk about that 330 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:24.759 kind of thing to support, especially in recent political arena, right, 331 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.319 we've seen we've discovered that people are willing to support 332 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.839 what they you know, what they would have earlier thought 333 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:36.000 of as horrendous ideas, horrible ideas, abusive ideas, violent ideas, 334 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.319 racist ideas, you know, all this kind of stuff. Do 335 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.279 you think that is an indication that maybe this stuff 336 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:46.240 is baked into us as human beings are, is our 337 00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:48.279 attempts at building a more peaceful world? 338 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.240 Just folly? 339 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:54.359 If we look back five hundred one thousand years ago, 340 00:18:54.759 --> 00:19:00.200 would we say that those negative qualities are just as 341 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.000 as they were back then? I hope not. I don't 342 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.680 think so. I believe that we are, in comparison, a kinder, 343 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:14.160 more thoughtful, more empathetic society cavilization. So can I then 344 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.319 extrapolate that and say, okay, a thousand years down the road, 345 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.960 if we survive, things will be just that much more better? 346 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.640 I hope? So? Is it wired into us right now. Sure, 347 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.480 the good and the bad, but I think that that 348 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.480 we're changing that wiring slowly, bit by bit, and even 349 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.319 if we have setbacks like we are looking at right now, 350 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.200 I'm a man of faith. I got to have faith 351 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:44.160 that we can and will improve and get better. And 352 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.880 even if our current generation is shot, those of us 353 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.319 who have eyes to see will know that we need 354 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.720 to take care of the next generation. We need to 355 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.359 be sowing those seeds and raising up people who will 356 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.200 you know, inch that ball down the field. Just another 357 00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.640 in Kelly. 358 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.160 I know you had one last thing you wanted to say, 359 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:04.519 but I also want to get your opinion on what 360 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.680 Stephen was just saying. Do you think that do you 361 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:09.400 think that we can make progress on this? Do you 362 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:11.279 think that we're moving in the right direction? I mean, 363 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:15.359 by some measures, as Steven pointed out, you know, we're 364 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.759 better than we were five hundred years ago, But on 365 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.079 the other hand, we're worse off than we were maybe 366 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:22.880 ten years ago, or at least it appears that way 367 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.240 fifteen twenty years ago, fifty years ago, things like that. 368 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.000 Are we making progress? 369 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.640 Is or is this a two steps forward, one step 370 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:32.640 back kind of situation? 371 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.119 Or what are your thoughts there. 372 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:36.319 You know, even if we take two steps forward and 373 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.440 one step back, we're still progressing, right, So yeah, I 374 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.319 do see us slipping back right now. But in the 375 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.200 long run, like you said, five, we've come a long 376 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.519 way in just the last one hundred years. So when 377 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.440 we slip back five, while it hurts us and we 378 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.759 see it as being something really bad, if you look 379 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.119 at it in the big, long run, it's really not 380 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.400 that big of a deal. And I think that's it's 381 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.079 important for us to keep that in focus. And it's 382 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.720 also important for us to keep in the focus that 383 00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:09.720 it doesn't have to keep continuing that if we stand up, 384 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:11.839 we can stop this and get back on the track 385 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.319 we were on before and keep progressing like we were before, 386 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:21.039 which we will do eventually, I'm sure, because unfortunately for conservatives, 387 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:27.480 reality has a liberal view, so there's just a liberal 388 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:30.480 bias in the world. I did want to point out 389 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.680 a couple of things, as you mentioned. One was that 390 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.759 this article was written by somebody who was in Trump's 391 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:40.400 administration and is most likely going to be back inside 392 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.000 of Trump's administration, something to keep in mind. I also 393 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.039 wanted to point out that this is from the Christian post, 394 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:50.160 the Christian Post, and it goes back to something I've 395 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:53.400 been saying all week. This is an organization. It's supposed 396 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.880 to reprice at the message of peace and love that 397 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.559 Jesus supposedly taught. At least that's the mess that a 398 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.079 lot of Christians I know that I talk to and 399 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.359 the ones that call into the show is keep telling us. 400 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.240 So I got a message for those people. Hi, folks, 401 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:11.000