Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your
Speaker 1: hosts up in Portsmouth, New Hampshire now for a week
Speaker 1: and then back down to South Carolina and then back
Speaker 1: up here for the summer about July first or so
Speaker 1: something like that. So this is one of actually three shows.
Speaker 1: First one is here with Gary Hezelton and he's going
Speaker 1: to be talking about Roswell the UK, which is the
Speaker 1: Rendel Schimp Forrest, one of the top UFO sightings, a
Speaker 1: week long adventure. We're going to be talking about that,
Speaker 1: and there's still a lot of ongoing things there. It's
Speaker 1: a real mystery. And so then at seven o'clock the
Speaker 1: regular time, we have Bob Sallas. He's going to be
Speaker 1: rebutting the Wall Street Journal article that came out last week.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are pretty upset about that. And
Speaker 1: so also Kevin Randall's going to be joining us about
Speaker 1: seven thirty halfway through. He wrote a really good blog
Speaker 1: actually standing up for a Bob Salas and that whole situation.
Speaker 1: So that's today at seven pm, and then on Friday
Speaker 1: at six pm Eastern, we have Paul Heinik j Allen
Speaker 1: Heineck's Sun and he's going to be talking about UFOs
Speaker 1: and AI. He likes to call it augmented intelligence, not
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, but it's brilliant. I did a pre record
Speaker 1: with him at Contacting the Desert. That'll be a really
Speaker 1: good show coming out Friday. Our blog this week is
Speaker 1: UFO Occupants in the nineteen seventy eight Nightcap UFO Chronology,
Speaker 1: so check that out from Charles Lear. He writes blogs
Speaker 1: every week for us and eventually they get turned into
Speaker 1: audio blogs, so check that out. That's in the podcast
Speaker 1: stream and all that. Anyone can support the show if
Speaker 1: you'd like to. That link is right over on podcastufo
Speaker 1: dot com under a Patreon. Also, it's come to my
Speaker 1: attention that we are the longest running consistent podcast on UFOs.
Speaker 1: Let me just break that down a little bit. So
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, we've been going straight ever since then. Now,
Speaker 1: there were podcasts, a couple of podcasts on the topic
Speaker 1: prior to me, but those people are either not consistent
Speaker 1: or they are no longer doing the podcast. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of an honor to have that,
Speaker 1: you know, a little feather in the cap that it's
Speaker 1: the longest running so far. I have no plans to
Speaker 1: end it. As you see, I added another show per week.
Speaker 1: So either that I'm crazy or I just really enjoy
Speaker 1: this or both. But anyway, it's about time for me
Speaker 1: to introduce my guests. Gary, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Hi Martin, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 3: Yes, I know, how do you remember what you hear?
Speaker 3: That was?
Speaker 2: No, but I would hazard a guest these three or
Speaker 2: four years ago? Oh?
Speaker 3: Is that all?
Speaker 2: It was?
Speaker 3: Okay? All right?
Speaker 1: But anyway, I really love having police officers on the show.
Speaker 1: You know, I years ago I remember having sort of
Speaker 1: a debate argument with Seth Shawstack from SETI and him
Speaker 1: saying basically that you know, there are no good observers,
Speaker 1: And I said, well, what about astronauts, what about pilots,
Speaker 1: what about policemen?
Speaker 3: You said, no, they're no better than anyone else.
Speaker 1: I disagree with that, and you know, because of all
Speaker 1: the different Well, well, first of all, I think policemen
Speaker 1: are trained to be really good observers. They do this
Speaker 1: thing in the States anyway, where they actually you know,
Speaker 1: have a disruption during training and then you're supposed to
Speaker 1: and it kind of throws you for a loop, and
Speaker 1: then you're supposed to write down and every single thing
Speaker 1: that you observed when you weren't even expecting to have
Speaker 1: to do that. And I guess that's part of the training,
Speaker 1: as you're supposed to be really good observers.
Speaker 2: Well, I would certainly say that police officers can be
Speaker 2: very good witnesses. They're not infallible, but they are trained
Speaker 2: to record literally through the mind's eye, everything that they're experiencing.
Speaker 2: And because things are written eventually for usually a court,
Speaker 2: whether it be an inquest or a criminal court, they're
Speaker 2: in their mind's eye, they're thinking, what time was that happened?
Speaker 2: What time did that happen? Right? Three people over there?
Speaker 2: I must make a mental note of that, So you're
Speaker 2: continually assessing. So what I would say is far and
Speaker 2: above a member of the public who hasn't had that
Speaker 2: kind of training, then they are in fact very good witnesses.
Speaker 2: That's not to say the cartets make mistakes. But where
Speaker 2: I would say it gets even more impressive is if
Speaker 2: you have multiple police officers for whatever event, corroborating each other.
Speaker 2: And sometimes in a lot of the police cases on
Speaker 2: my PROOFCE police database, they will there's maybe ten twelve
Speaker 2: officers from six geographical locations, six different cars are in
Speaker 2: the countryside and they're all looking at the same thing.
Speaker 2: Are you telling me that they're not seeing something that's bizarre?
Speaker 2: That's wrong. So I think the real answer is a
Speaker 2: police officer can be very good. However, you said it
Speaker 2: earlier for me, fighter pilots should be the best pilots
Speaker 2: and should be the best witnesses, and they are the better.
Speaker 2: Said that in nineteen fifty five.
Speaker 1: Well, you know the you know, the other thing about
Speaker 1: this whole thing is, I mean, look what the ridicule
Speaker 1: and the problem that one's are more had in the
Speaker 1: Secoral case going back to nineteen sixty four. I think
Speaker 1: it is, you know, I mean, he did not want
Speaker 1: any of this attention, and I don't think any police
Speaker 1: officer wants that attention, So why they make something up?
Speaker 1: That's just the other part of it.
Speaker 2: Police officers are lowed to put their head above the
Speaker 2: parapet and say I saw ufour because there is an
Speaker 2: implicit risk that they face one historical ridicule and still
Speaker 2: to a degree now. But the most fearful thing for
Speaker 2: a police officer saying they've seen a ufour is they
Speaker 2: genuinely perceive that it may affect their career. It might
Speaker 2: affect their promotion, their pension and things like that very real.
Speaker 2: So when an officer does go on the record, they're
Speaker 2: not stupid. They have seen what they've seen as best
Speaker 2: they can describe.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: And last weekend I had the pleasure of hanging out
Speaker 1: with you know, few police officers I do a podcast.
Speaker 1: I gave them your information to get a hold of you. Actually,
Speaker 1: Mary Anne, Rob and Dave Rich great great people and
Speaker 1: they well.
Speaker 2: They reach out to me. I'd love to talk to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, excellent.
Speaker 1: So before you became a police officer, you were in
Speaker 1: the service, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Between nineteen eighty three and nineteen eighty nine, I served
Speaker 2: in the Royal Air Force as a police officer. Now
Speaker 2: that's not a high rank, that's just a basic aim
Speaker 2: and rank. I was a corporal, but effectively of my
Speaker 2: six years RIF service, for three of those years I
Speaker 2: worked on two nuclear bases, ARIF Hontington in Suffolk, not
Speaker 2: a million miles away from Reynolds from Forest and also
Speaker 2: ARIF Larbrook in what was then West Germany. And the
Speaker 2: point I'm making is I did exactly the same job
Speaker 2: as the US there for security police officers did at
Speaker 2: rentalson I guarded nuclear weapons weapons storage area that carried
Speaker 2: tactical nuclear weapons for aircraft, small yield tactical nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3: Ah uh huh uh.
Speaker 1: You know, when I've I've talked the last time I
Speaker 1: spoke with Colonel Charles Holt, and we can jump into
Speaker 1: you know, the rendil from force case of course, But
Speaker 1: the last time I spoke with him, and I mentioned,
Speaker 1: I asked the question were the were there are nuclear
Speaker 1: arms there? And he got very upset, you know, because
Speaker 1: he's not supposed.
Speaker 2: To talk about it either confirm or deny. Yes, will say, but.
Speaker 1: He seemed to get a little bit troubled that I
Speaker 1: asked him that question, and you know, I didn't realize
Speaker 1: it was going to you know, upset.
Speaker 2: Not And here's a conundrum, Uh Whilst he says that personally,
Speaker 2: because he's tied to his use as a senior officer,
Speaker 2: why then did he appear. It's a National Press Club
Speaker 2: event organized by Robert Hastings based on his book UFOs
Speaker 2: and Newts, and he gave an afford David and if
Speaker 2: you read through that, he signed it and he basically
Speaker 2: said a lot of people on the base have confirmed
Speaker 2: that you're dealing with nuclear weapons. So it was it's
Speaker 2: play onwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well anyway, that's here there at this point.
Speaker 1: So we're going all the way back to December of
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. Now here's the thing. You've heard everything about
Speaker 1: this case. You dove into it deeply, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's been other books on it, and you know, and
Speaker 1: then the Larry Warren debacle all that, you know, but
Speaker 1: which Peter Robbins on this show apologized to the public
Speaker 1: for being involved in that, which I thought that was,
Speaker 1: you know, pretty big of him to do that. But
Speaker 1: still so there's these books on it, but there's also
Speaker 1: lots of people that have tried to you know, debunk
Speaker 1: I guess you would call it by you know, the
Speaker 1: Lighthouse story and all that. And is that still an
Speaker 1: ongoing effort of you know, of skeptics to try to
Speaker 1: make rendelsom force of nothing.
Speaker 2: It is. But let me address the first point that
Speaker 2: you raised, the Larry Warren debacle. Indeed, there has been
Speaker 2: a debarcle because the reality was that during the course
Speaker 2: of my five years of research, I came across a
Speaker 2: witness who corroborated him almost word for word. Sergeant Adrian Beastinza,
Speaker 2: and that was part of the debacle because the people
Speaker 2: who did not want that witness to come forward, did
Speaker 2: not want that voice to be heard. And fortunately for me,
Speaker 2: after two years of trying, I got hold of him
Speaker 2: and he basically got it off his chest and he
Speaker 2: said there was a cordon of security police, there was
Speaker 2: a second landing. There was It was being filmed, not
Speaker 2: on still cameras, but it was being filmed on early video.
Speaker 2: And it was also on Cinny film that Colonel Williams,
Speaker 2: the base commander, turned up and there were entities. Now
Speaker 2: he didn't call them entities, Larry Warren call them kind
Speaker 2: of entities, childlike. And this didn't come out until two
Speaker 2: thoy nineteen, I think, when I did the interview with him.
Speaker 2: And yet this information is still not really out there
Speaker 2: despite my book coming out in February of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Sergeant Adrian Bustin's has suffered PTSD and he said Larry
Speaker 2: Warren was closer to that second landing craft than I was. Now,
Speaker 2: how many people in the United States have heard of this?
Speaker 2: None because none of you report it, So there's a
Speaker 2: big you know, I think a lot of the people
Speaker 2: in America do not realize unless they've read my book,
Speaker 2: just the extent of some of the things that I
Speaker 2: found out. And so that's not the dibicle. The dibarcle
Speaker 2: was the people who really trying to ridic him and
Speaker 2: say he wasn't there, he made it all up. Whatever,
Speaker 2: that's a misnormal. That's there were people who were actively
Speaker 2: wanting to control the narrative. Right, that's enough said on that.
Speaker 2: Do skeptics still try to go in nowhere? Not so
Speaker 2: much now. I remember doing a piece for the BBC
Speaker 2: maybe eighteen months ago, and the BBC had historically always
Speaker 2: been very skeptical. But I did a piece and we
Speaker 2: went out in the forest. I took a team around
Speaker 2: and the piece that came out and of course you
Speaker 2: never have a clue on how the edit's going to be,
Speaker 2: but they came out and it was very positive that
Speaker 2: something really did happen there. So it just shows that
Speaker 2: things can change. But you need to read the book
Speaker 2: to realize that. After five years of deep research in
Speaker 2: this case, and I've been I knew of it for
Speaker 2: a long long time. I had researched it, but I
Speaker 2: went into a deep, deep dive research five years of research.
Speaker 2: At the end of it, I concluded there were seventeen
Speaker 2: different times UFO events, seventeen different times UFO events, various craft,
Speaker 2: various descriptions over not three days as we've been led
Speaker 2: to believe for the last twenty five years, about a
Speaker 2: week long and why a week long? Because a witness
Speaker 2: called Steve Wagner m and Steve Wagner retired. He came
Speaker 2: forward to say that he'd attended an event by the
Speaker 2: East Skate at Woodbridge on December the twenty third, and
Speaker 2: there he didn't see a craft. But the story was
Speaker 2: that he was called with a colleague to go to
Speaker 2: the East Skate and a police officer had been upset
Speaker 2: and said, I've seen something go into the forest behind
Speaker 2: and it appeared to come down behind some trees less
Speaker 2: than one hundred and fifty meters from the East Skate. Now,
Speaker 2: nobody's ever said they've seen anything going to the trees
Speaker 2: that close. And they said, well, what was it? He said, well,
Speaker 2: we didn't see anything, but when we made a check
Speaker 2: of the area, we found a clearing and we found
Speaker 2: three equilateral depression triangle depressions, but these weren't eight inches
Speaker 2: across like Jim Penison and John Burrow's account. These were
Speaker 2: each five feet across. Now likes that's a huge craft
Speaker 2: of some descriptions come down. No wonder the airmen on
Speaker 2: the East Gate was terrified. I would have been Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, I forget that a lot. I have
Speaker 1: a lot of new people. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: new people that listen to this. The regular listeners of
Speaker 1: the show are have rendersrom force. They know inside and out,
Speaker 1: you know, they.
Speaker 3: Don't there are no but I mean they know the
Speaker 3: general story, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But so I'm going to ask you, for the person
Speaker 1: that doesn't know the story, if you can spend like
Speaker 1: five minutes or something like ten minutes and just explain
Speaker 1: real quickly, you know, the events that at least that
Speaker 1: are already known, and then we can go through it,
Speaker 1: you know, the things that you've uncovered.
Speaker 2: Okay, twenty seventeen when I began my deep dive research. Okay,
Speaker 2: so let's go pre twenty seventeen, the accepted story that
Speaker 2: had emerged since nineteen eighty or really since the famous
Speaker 2: News of the World article in October nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 2: Ufour Lands in Suffolk and it's official. Here's what was
Speaker 2: accepted as the narrative for and still is into most
Speaker 2: regards unless you've read my book, is that basically the
Speaker 2: first night of activity, it was deemed the Jim Peniston
Speaker 2: John Burrows ed ca Banzac lights seen by the Eastkate
Speaker 2: to go out and eventually, having followed through various parts
Speaker 2: of the forest, eventually Jim Peniston says in a small
Speaker 2: cleary he saw small triangular craft approximately three meters by
Speaker 2: three meters two meters at its highest point, and he
Speaker 2: said it was at or near the ground, and he
Speaker 2: said it looked like black glass. He said it was
Speaker 2: warm to the touch, it felt like glass, and at
Speaker 2: some point it'd had it raised etchings and tymbals which
Speaker 2: he drew in his pocketbook, et cetera, et cetera. John
Speaker 2: Burrows never described it as a craft. He basically said
Speaker 2: it was a bank of lights because his perception was
Speaker 2: perhaps maybe thirty or forty meters away from that, so
Speaker 2: he has got a natural different perception. And what he
Speaker 2: basically suggested was there appeared to be a bank of
Speaker 2: lights that suggested a structure behind it. That's basically what
Speaker 2: John Borrows said. Okay, so that was like the accepted
Speaker 2: part of the story, and it was also in the
Speaker 2: Halt memorandum, which I'll come on to a minute. Secondly,
Speaker 2: a much less well known in chronological order was what
Speaker 2: happened to Bonnie Tampling, who was leftendant. Bonnie Tampling, one
Speaker 2: of the four shift commanders. Well, everybody over the years
Speaker 2: had realized that something traumatic had happened to her because
Speaker 2: she was heard over the radio help Help Help Bobby,
Speaker 2: Bobby shouting for Sergeant Robert ball On, one of her
Speaker 2: shift members, and something had happened to us that was
Speaker 2: so distressing that basically she never really went back on
Speaker 2: shift again, but we didn't know the story. I'll come
Speaker 2: to that in the post twenty seventeen after my investigation,
Speaker 2: because I've got a big lead on that. That solves
Speaker 2: what happened to her, all right, And of course what
Speaker 2: was really well known through the Halt memorandum, and that
Speaker 2: News of the World article was referenced to when Colonel Holt,
Speaker 2: literally two nights after the peniculin Borrow's account, led a
Speaker 2: small team five people four others plus Colonel Holt or
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Colonel Holt as he was then led a team
Speaker 2: out into the forest. The route in the forest for
Speaker 2: four and a half hours, and originally they go out
Speaker 2: to the original land in sight and they do kind
Speaker 2: of a forensic examination of the scene, albeit two days
Speaker 2: after the events, and they'd been called out there because
Speaker 2: they were told that earlier there'd been a sighting a UFO,
Speaker 2: and basically he organized the team to get out there,
Speaker 2: and when they got their no UFO was scene, but
Speaker 2: they thought, well, I've assembled this team, we'll do a
Speaker 2: forensic examination of the scene. So they took soil samples,
Speaker 2: they took radiation readings, etc. The key point is that
Speaker 2: whilst we're out there, they then see a light themselves,
Speaker 2: which then seems to be moving under the canopy of
Speaker 2: trees a short distance away. It would sometimes come towards them,
Speaker 2: they move away, they follow it through the trees and
Speaker 2: eventually they get to the edge of a farmer's field
Speaker 2: which was then a grass field, and across this field
Speaker 2: was a farmhouse. Now, the distance from the edge of
Speaker 2: the field the edge of the forest where they were
Speaker 2: to the farm house virtually opposite to their perspective of
Speaker 2: where they came out, was approximately three hundred meters and
Speaker 2: you clearly see the farmhouse, and they had an early
Speaker 2: night vision camera scope to look through, and Colonel Holt
Speaker 2: said to me personally. I went round the forest with
Speaker 2: him in two thousand and ten and for a documentary
Speaker 2: that never aired, But I took him around and said, look,
Speaker 2: can we go through as as per your audio tape,
Speaker 2: the famous audio tape that you recorded that night of
Speaker 2: those live events. And he took me to opposite the field,
Speaker 2: and there's a tree there that I called the halt
Speaker 2: Market tree. And he said, when we first saw the
Speaker 2: UFO out in the open, and I not through the
Speaker 2: forest and under the canopy of trees, we were looking
Speaker 2: across towards a farm house. And he says, to the
Speaker 2: left of the farmhouse, low to the ground, approximately the
Speaker 2: size of a car, was a red glower object that
Speaker 2: they could also see through the scope. Are clearly there,
Speaker 2: just hovering just above the surface of grassed area. But
Speaker 2: he said, here's the thing, And this is what he
Speaker 2: said to me in twenty ten. He says, people go
Speaker 2: on about the lighthouse. He says, well, I'd take many
Speaker 2: of my friends out or visitors when they came to
Speaker 2: the base, out to the lighthouse because it's rather pretty,
Speaker 2: and there's a nice Norman keep there, and there's some
Speaker 2: nice pubs whatever. So he regularly took people out there.
Speaker 2: He knew where it was on the horizon, and he
Speaker 2: said the lighthouse was to the right of the farmhouse,
Speaker 2: and he said I could see it bleeping every five seconds.
Speaker 2: That's what he told me. So the clear thing here
Speaker 2: is for those people who still want to talk about lighthouses,
Speaker 2: which is always, always has been made up by the present,
Speaker 2: was ludicrous was that it was to the UFO. He
Speaker 2: was looking at the object, whatever it was, was low
Speaker 2: to the ground, to the left of the farmhouse, and
Speaker 2: he said it was quite close to the farmhouse, and
Speaker 2: he said it was that bright it appeared to be
Speaker 2: reflecting into the windows of the farmhouse, and it made
Speaker 2: it look like the farmhouse was on fire. But the
Speaker 2: clear point there is the lighthouse was about five miles
Speaker 2: away on the right of the farmhouse, so it could
Speaker 2: never have been the lighthouse. So those are the three events,
Speaker 2: and that narrative is literally in my opinion, based on
Speaker 2: all of my research and based as a former detective
Speaker 2: of nineteen years police officer of twenty four years. I
Speaker 2: did this as a cold case review. I took all
Speaker 2: of personalities out of it and just look for the facts,
Speaker 2: look for old interviews, look for new interviews. Could I
Speaker 2: reinterview people, et cetera. And at the end of that
Speaker 2: seventeen different time duo four events beginning now with that
Speaker 2: event seen by well physical evidence of some descriptions on
Speaker 2: the December the twenty third, and he's pretty animate that
Speaker 2: it was December the twenty third. In the end, I
Speaker 2: don't think we're ever going to know now and pin
Speaker 2: down day because too much time has elapsed. But people's
Speaker 2: memories of certain things are still very strong, and I
Speaker 2: still believe there are many more US Air Force Security
Speaker 2: Police witnesses to come forward. So that's the story pre
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Do you now want me to go on
Speaker 2: to what I found out?
Speaker 3: Sure, yes, of course.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, one of the big things there was
Speaker 2: the m and Steve Wagner I just told you what
Speaker 2: he's found, the depressions that alludes to something unidentified landing
Speaker 2: in a clearing that was much larger than what would
Speaker 2: be described as the first Night landing, involving Jim Paniston.
Speaker 2: John Burrow's right. Let's go back to Bonnie Tampling, Lieutenant
Speaker 2: Bonnie Tampling. We all knew that something had happened. Various
Speaker 2: people like Laurie Bowen and Jim Tremontozi had gone on
Speaker 2: the record saying I'd heard her other radio screaming, Bobby, Bobby, help.
Speaker 2: Something had happened to but we didn't know what well.
Speaker 2: One of the aimen that I spoke to was a
Speaker 2: guy called m and Michael Stacy Smith, and he'd actually
Speaker 2: had an earlier sight in I think it was in
Speaker 2: July of nineteen eighty. So in the book, I list
Speaker 2: three what's called precursor cases, one in February, one in July,
Speaker 2: one in November of nineteen eighty that kind of led
Speaker 2: up to this cluster at the relative end of December
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen. Now, Michael Stacys Smith had had a good
Speaker 2: sight in his own in July, and we can come
Speaker 2: back to that if you want. But with regards to
Speaker 2: the December events, I said to him after he told
Speaker 2: me about his July event, are you aware of any
Speaker 2: other kind of incidents that were a bit unusual UFO related?
Speaker 2: He said, yeah, He said, I know quite a bit
Speaker 2: about what happened to Bonnie Tamplin and I said, go on,
Speaker 2: tell me, and he said, well, as a first hand
Speaker 2: witness to this, he can only tell me what he experienced.
Speaker 2: But this is from his first person, direct witness testimony
Speaker 2: that he gave me for the book, is that he
Speaker 2: was at Arif Bentwaters, which is where the weapon storage
Speaker 2: aerry was located and one of the main offices was located,
Speaker 2: and he was told to quickly go to what was
Speaker 2: called the Buttley Gate, which was the rear in a
Speaker 2: sense rural backgate of Rif Bentwaters, which was the more
Speaker 2: scenery of the two bases because it held an occupied
Speaker 2: weapons storage area that contained nuclear weapons, so that was
Speaker 2: the most strategic base. And anyways, he was told go
Speaker 2: to the east gate, open it up quickly as soon
Speaker 2: as you can. So he races down there, opens up
Speaker 2: the gate. Ten minutes later he sees a convoy for
Speaker 2: want of a better description, of three or four USA
Speaker 2: Force Security Police vehicles out through the gate at speed
Speaker 2: onto what was a rural country back roads that led
Speaker 2: to the back of aria Woodbridge, the other twin base,
Speaker 2: which was approximately a mile and a half to two
Speaker 2: miles away, probably about a mile and a half on
Speaker 2: country roads. So he sees them go out and he
Speaker 2: doesn't know why, but he's just opened up the gate
Speaker 2: and the vehicles go shooting out. Then ten minutes after that,
Speaker 2: he sees a vehicle, a military vehicle, one of those
Speaker 2: that had gone out in the convoy come back and
Speaker 2: in the driver's seat, well in the passenger seat, is
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Bonnie Tamplin. She is crying, she's almost hysterical. This
Speaker 2: is based on his description. She's disheveled, she's not wearing
Speaker 2: a cap, a military cap, and basically he didn't get
Speaker 2: a chances to speak to her, but he knew her.
Speaker 2: He talked to her in the past, so he recognized
Speaker 2: her and she goes in. She is clearly distraught by something.
Speaker 2: And then ten minutes later, a vehicle turns up that
Speaker 2: has sustained roof damage as consistent with having been involved
Speaker 2: in a road accident. Okay, it's still drivable, but it's
Speaker 2: got sustained damage that he can see that it's consistent
Speaker 2: with being involved in some kind of accident. And it
Speaker 2: comes in and drives in. Then it's told to close
Speaker 2: the gate. He's so curious. He goes to a sergeant
Speaker 2: we'd known, we respected, and was a good friend with
Speaker 2: and he said, what the hell's going on? And he said, well,
Speaker 2: if you never mentioned my name, I'll tell you what
Speaker 2: happened the story, and he said, I'll never reveal your name,
Speaker 2: and he never did to me, so I respect him
Speaker 2: for that, but I have no reason who disbelieve the
Speaker 2: account that he was given, And the account that he
Speaker 2: was given is that Bonnie Tamplin was in a military
Speaker 2: vehicle driving along a rural back road just happened to
Speaker 2: be there at the right time or the wrong time,
Speaker 2: depending on your perspective. When she hears over the radio
Speaker 2: that Laurie Bowen, who was at the east gate at Woodbridge,
Speaker 2: had seen a flaming ball of something go into the
Speaker 2: forest and out of sight. She reported it to Central
Speaker 2: Security Control. They then said, is there anybody nearby? Which
Speaker 2: is what you do, have anybody on mobile clothes enough
Speaker 2: to attend and as unlooked would have it. Lieutenant Bonnie
Speaker 2: Tamplin says, yeah, I'll respond to that. She was already
Speaker 2: on the back road heading towards it. We then and
Speaker 2: now can establish through what the sergeant said to Michael
Speaker 2: Stacy Smith, is that as she is driving along the
Speaker 2: country road, and there's no other buildings. It's just a
Speaker 2: rural country road, a British civilian country road, no military jurisdiction.
Speaker 2: A UFO, A red glowing ball of light approximately the
Speaker 2: size of the car pulls alongside of her. So she
Speaker 2: is doing that, and a hedgerow height parallel to her
Speaker 2: is this car sized red glowing object. And she sees
Speaker 2: it and like me or you, we'd probably get very frightened,
Speaker 2: and she lost control of the vehicle. She ends up
Speaker 2: rolling into a ditch, but it doesn't end there. She
Speaker 2: clambers out of the vehicle. She doesn't sustain serious injury,
Speaker 2: but she shook up. She gets out and the UFO
Speaker 2: that had been traveling with her has now stopped. He's
Speaker 2: now looking down at her stationery. She is so frightened
Speaker 2: she picks up her weapon and discharges several rounds at it.
Speaker 2: Bang bang bang bang. Object goes. She then goes over
Speaker 2: the radio and this is what we already knew. Bobbie, Bobbie,
Speaker 2: hell well, help, they respond, They pick her up when
Speaker 2: the vehicles go out, so it all ties together. All
Speaker 2: of that was covered up by the US Air Force.
Speaker 2: The rounds that were discharged, which is a really very
Speaker 2: very serious offense and what would be classed as negligent
Speaker 2: discharge or to use your rounds. And then because you're
Speaker 2: allocated some of the rounds at the beginning of the shift,
Speaker 2: you have to hand the certain ones back. She went,
Speaker 2: never went back on shift, and soon went back to
Speaker 2: the United States and that was it. So we finally
Speaker 2: found out what happened to her. Steve Longero was another airman,
Speaker 2: and he's got a real good story. This is first
Speaker 2: hand witness test to me to have been been shone
Speaker 2: down directly from a UFO into the nuclear weapons storage area.
Speaker 2: Now there's a bit of an interest. The Americans called
Speaker 2: the weapon storage area a WSA. When I was in
Speaker 2: the Royal Air Force they called the same thing a
Speaker 2: supplementary storage area an SSA. But it was the same thing. Bunkers,
Speaker 2: hot row, double line, wires, double line to get in
Speaker 2: and it was the most heavily protected, blocked, three hundred guarded,
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty five twenty four to seven. It's
Speaker 2: the Cold War, all right. He was new on to shift.
Speaker 2: He'd only arrived in early December, and there was a quirk.
Speaker 2: At the time. There'd been rumors that something had happened,
Speaker 2: and some personnel had either been stripped of their jobs
Speaker 2: and they were short man So the normal base generalization
Speaker 2: we got to know did some basic learning about the
Speaker 2: twin bases that normally took about two three weeks. They
Speaker 2: were quickly put onto it, much quicker onto shift, and
Speaker 2: this has caused a lot of confusion. But he said
Speaker 2: that's what happened to him. So he found himself as
Speaker 2: basically very quickly having arrived there onto a shift. There
Speaker 2: was shortmaned, for want of a better word, short maned,
Speaker 2: and he said, I was put inside a weapon storage area,
Speaker 2: walking around as a guard inside inside the weapon storage area,
Speaker 2: and I was walking around with my M sixteen probably,
Speaker 2: and the other person with him was more experienced. You
Speaker 2: can't remember how that person was. He said, I was
Speaker 2: inside and I was paid up. And then he said,
Speaker 2: we see a UFO over the treetops and all most
Speaker 2: people will realize that these kind of facilities are often
Speaker 2: surrounded by forest, as are squadrons are often surrounded by forest,
Speaker 2: just to camouflage them a little. And he said a beam.
Speaker 2: The UFO then shone a beam down onto what was
Speaker 2: called the hot row, and the hot row was the
Speaker 2: main set of bunkers, which was approximately three hundred meters long,
Speaker 2: and he said more than this. He said, the beam
Speaker 2: was like a laser, akin to a laser beam, but
Speaker 2: it did this. He said, it went jum jum jum,
Speaker 2: like it was scanning, and its slowly made its way
Speaker 2: along the three hundred meters of the hot row, akin
Speaker 2: to some kind of an inspection, before then being going
Speaker 2: off and then going off towards Rendersom forest. Now here's
Speaker 2: another thing. This is so bizarre. Had never ever gone
Speaker 2: on the account with this. When I interviewed him, it
Speaker 2: was about three hours transatlantic call. He really got into it.
Speaker 2: A lot of people eventually, if you set them up
Speaker 2: in the right way, will begin to unload because they've
Speaker 2: never really given them out. And I was an advanced
Speaker 2: interview with suspects and witnesses, and I set them up
Speaker 2: in the right way. It's not it noises. You can't
Speaker 2: do hypnosis from three to two thousand dollars away. But
Speaker 2: I've set him up in the right way, and he
Speaker 2: really gone into it. He led things off his chest
Speaker 2: and he said, and that wasn't it. I said, what
Speaker 2: do you mean? That's amazing that you were inside. That
Speaker 2: was final confirmation that a beam had been seen. A
Speaker 2: lot of people had speculated it was seen at on here.
Speaker 2: Colonel Holt told me in a video in two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven. They recorded for me that a beam had
Speaker 2: been gone down directly into the weapon storage area and
Speaker 2: people on the ground had witnessed it too. Well. He
Speaker 2: could have been one of those workings on the ground.
Speaker 2: So that was a great tile, right, But that was
Speaker 2: great first hand testamony. But he said, what happened then
Speaker 2: is when the US four turned its beam off and
Speaker 2: then went out to the forest. Everybody's like following it
Speaker 2: and other USAir Force Security Police officers wondering where it's going,
Speaker 2: and it's going to World Renderson Forest. He said, there
Speaker 2: was a call for any spare personnel to go out
Speaker 2: into the forest, and of course he don't had just
Speaker 2: gone on shift and he wren't really up to things inside.
Speaker 2: He was being shadowed so that he was super numerous.
Speaker 2: So they pulled him off and he said, I was
Speaker 2: with about fifteen others that was taken on a truck
Speaker 2: into the forest to what we now know is the
Speaker 2: staging area. It was an area where you couldn't go
Speaker 2: any further for vehicles, so it's become known as the
Speaker 2: stage in area, and there were lots of military personnel
Speaker 2: million around there. And he said on the night he
Speaker 2: was out there, he basically was taken to the first
Speaker 2: night landing either Peniculin boroughs a landing site, and he said,
Speaker 2: while we're there, we see multiple UFOs in the sky
Speaker 2: and in completely new event that nobody had ever heard
Speaker 2: of until that research. So again multiple incidents. Like I
Speaker 2: said I mentioned earlier, one of the things to do
Speaker 2: with Sergeant Adrian Pastiner is a great linking witness because
Speaker 2: not only did he say that he'd been a second
Speaker 2: landing that wrote and corroborated what Warrens had said, he
Speaker 2: also told me about another incident that had never been
Speaker 2: aired anywhere. He said basically that he on the night.
Speaker 2: It's hard to pin down the knights, but he eventually
Speaker 2: said that he was involved in two nights of UFO activity,
Speaker 2: and the Warren one was the second one. The first
Speaker 2: one was the Holt night. He was part of Holt's
Speaker 2: team of five, which is interesting because he's actually on
Speaker 2: the famous audio tech all right, But he said he
Speaker 2: was what was called the NCOIC, which meant he was
Speaker 2: basically the mobile golfer. So if anybody wanted anything, they'd say, right,
Speaker 2: can you go there and pick up some more lighthouls
Speaker 2: from Woodbridge and bring them out into the forest. Can
Speaker 2: you go to Bentwaters and get some white tolls taken
Speaker 2: out to the forest. So he was the golfer. He
Speaker 2: was the go to man all right now, he said,
Speaker 2: And this doesn't mix with anything he said on one occasion,
Speaker 2: so he's effectively were all these events going on, and
Speaker 2: clearly before he went out with Holtz team, he's involved
Speaker 2: in other incidents that we're not really aware of too much.
Speaker 2: But he said, I was coming and going bringing stuff
Speaker 2: into the forest. It's at night, and he said, at
Speaker 2: one point I am told and I think it was
Speaker 2: by Captain Mike Varano, who was a shift, one of
Speaker 2: the senior officers. He said, go form like a skirmish
Speaker 2: line of USIR Force Security Police offers offices and do
Speaker 2: a line search of the forest that bit of the forest.
Speaker 2: So what it meant was he had to then gather
Speaker 2: people from the clearly milling around at the staging area,
Speaker 2: and he said he got together about fifty to twenty
Speaker 2: people in a straight line very in mind, it'd be
Speaker 2: extremely dark. There was no space for lightholes there, so
Speaker 2: you've only got torches, which would have been very dim.
Speaker 2: And he said he was told to go forward. You know,
Speaker 2: like you're doing a police search after a murder and
Speaker 2: people are trying to find forensic evidence, and you see
Speaker 2: the line of police officers searching the field close to
Speaker 2: each other. Well, these were similar to that, but spread
Speaker 2: out maybe ten meters apart. So you think that there's
Speaker 2: fifteen or twenty, you may be looking at two hundred meters.
Speaker 2: That's a pretty big search. But nobody had ever heard
Speaker 2: of this, nobody's ever mentioned this. And he said, as
Speaker 2: we went through it, we're going through it's really hard.
Speaker 2: There's loads of undergrowth. You can hardly see. And he
Speaker 2: said at one point he said, I felt as if
Speaker 2: I had been pushed from behind. And he said, I
Speaker 2: fell down, fell forward, and as I did so, as
Speaker 2: he fell to the ground, he realized that when he
Speaker 2: was standing up that he'd fallen under some what was
Speaker 2: called yellow kind of hugging missed fog. There was like
Speaker 2: a three foot strange bank. So he said, it was
Speaker 2: like being underwater and you look up and you can
Speaker 2: see the surface film of the water, and you see
Speaker 2: the sky above it. And he said, I looked up
Speaker 2: and I realized that I was underneath the canopy of something,
Speaker 2: and I got up. Nobody's ever mentioned that. And then
Speaker 2: as he gets soap, people start panicking because they see
Speaker 2: lights in the sky as well, multiple UFOs. Again, new
Speaker 2: information that you would only get if you read the book.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying this just say get the book.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is there's a big part of the
Speaker 2: story that's never been told, and the narrative needs to change,
Speaker 2: because I believe the narrative has been deliberately controlled for
Speaker 2: the last twenty five years plus to only admit in
Speaker 2: effect what happened in the Hope memoranda. If you think
Speaker 2: about it, the Hope Memoranda mentions two incidents, first night
Speaker 2: landing Jim Penison and going out in his tea. And
Speaker 2: I think that's a US Air Force document that that
Speaker 2: shouldn't have come out. It did come out, and when
Speaker 2: it came out it caused consternation to the US Air
Speaker 2: Force because they'd been denying it for almost three years.
Speaker 2: So when it did come out, they were then in
Speaker 2: a bit of a panic. And later on James Fox
Speaker 2: interviews Colonel Gordon Williams, the deputy based commander of the
Speaker 2: twin Bases twelve thousand personnel, and he's just had around
Speaker 2: the golf, I think it was, and he's leaning alongside
Speaker 2: his cartch in one of his documentaries, and he said,
Speaker 2: when that memoranda memorandum came out, we couldn't put Humpty
Speaker 2: Dumpty back together again. And that little clip, over time
Speaker 2: and over my research really came back to haunt me
Speaker 2: a few times because I realized the significance, and the
Speaker 2: significance was when it came out. They couldn't deny that
Speaker 2: there'd been two incidents because it was on air force
Speaker 2: headed paper and two if there was anything else, if
Speaker 2: it weren't written down, and we're going to deny it.
Speaker 2: Hence the second landing and aliens and whatever. They're never
Speaker 2: going to admit that. And you know, and plus it
Speaker 2: was on film. Now, let me just work out a
Speaker 2: little bit more on whether there was a film. Captain
Speaker 2: Mike Varano, whom I mentioned earlier, he was one of
Speaker 2: the respected officers security police. He said that after the
Speaker 2: incident involving the second landing, he drove Colonel Williams to
Speaker 2: Awaiting F sixteen bent iris, bentwaters, canopies, raised pilots there,
Speaker 2: little ladder climbs up me, hands over to him like
Speaker 2: a top secret bag, satchel or whatever you want to
Speaker 2: call it. He drove him there and he said, Colonel,
Speaker 2: what's in the bag And he said, it's film with
Speaker 2: the UFO. He meant motion picture film. Gave it to
Speaker 2: the pilot. Pallete takes off and it goes off to
Speaker 2: Aria Framstein. Why because Arif Ramstein is the headquarters of
Speaker 2: the eighth Air Force which was covering the area of Europe.
Speaker 2: All right, but here's another kicker to say that that
Speaker 2: film existed. A new fund researcher called Ray Boucher did
Speaker 2: great work between eight and four and eighty six, arguably
Speaker 2: the best civilian research over a three year period. He
Speaker 2: did spoke to a lot of the military witnesses first,
Speaker 2: he rang them up, even when I was still serving,
Speaker 2: and he got to speak to some, including Colonel Holt
Speaker 2: if you want to hear about that. But suffice to
Speaker 2: say that Ray Boucher would say that the event was
Speaker 2: taken to Ramstein but eventually found its way. The film
Speaker 2: eventually found its way to the Pentagon. Why because he
Speaker 2: used to always submit Pentagon foy request to a lady
Speaker 2: who he came to know quite well, purely because of
Speaker 2: the frequency. A lady called Anturner and eventually got they
Speaker 2: got on to first name kind of basis, and he
Speaker 2: told me Ray Boo. She told me said Eventually she
Speaker 2: disclosed to him that one day she'd heard US military
Speaker 2: pilots talking at the Pentagon talking about the film of Rendoalson,
Speaker 2: and she looked on her records she said, I ain't
Speaker 2: got any film of records of Rendalson, So what were
Speaker 2: they on about? Which is again another little tying that
Speaker 2: that incident really occurred and that it was extremely serious. Now,
Speaker 2: imagine if that incident had leaked then and brought the
Speaker 2: story broken in December January nineteen eighty one, that could
Speaker 2: have been as viral as you could have got if
Speaker 2: in existence of a meeting with alleged entities in a field,
Speaker 2: and that is that a good reason to cover it up?
Speaker 2: I would say, yes, it is. There's lots of mood stuff.
Speaker 2: But I've been speaking for fifteen twenty minutes now, and
Speaker 2: I guess you want to go grab me back that's
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Did did John Burrows? It seems to me he's coming
Speaker 1: up on the show in a little while. But did
Speaker 1: he actually say I thought there was somewhere where he
Speaker 1: thought he saw some type of entity.
Speaker 3: Did I get that wrong?
Speaker 2: No? No, But this is the again where Sergeant Adrian
Speaker 2: Bustin's a great linking witness, arguably the best linking witness,
Speaker 2: is involved in three incidents on two different nights. Can
Speaker 2: be We're not certain of the actual dates, but he
Speaker 2: will say two nights, not one. Right now. What happened
Speaker 2: was Holt's team goes out on what was referred to
Speaker 2: as the whole night he's doing his audio. They're out
Speaker 2: for four and a half hours. Don't forget Adrian Mustinser
Speaker 2: is one of Holt's team of five. They're out for
Speaker 2: four and a half hours. Everybody else is told to
Speaker 2: stay back, according to Holt, by the staging area. So
Speaker 2: they're out there four and a half hours to see
Speaker 2: multiple UFOs and then they're getting cold and wet and
Speaker 2: they come in. So it's the early hours. We're not
Speaker 2: sure of the date. It's I believe the twenty ninth.
Speaker 2: Halt will say it was the twenty eighth, but in
Speaker 2: his original memo he said the twenty ninth. All right,
Speaker 2: they coming back to the staging area, and waiting for
Speaker 2: them is John Burrows, who'd been off duty. He lived
Speaker 2: about eight miles away in it switch a little town
Speaker 2: near his big town, and he'd managed to get it.
Speaker 2: It'd hurd on quite how. He'd heard something was going
Speaker 2: on on the base with your force, so he'd managed
Speaker 2: to hitch a lift in and then he'd managed to
Speaker 2: get a hitch to the staging areas. So he's off duty,
Speaker 2: civilian clothing, but he's had this earlier incident and he
Speaker 2: feels compelled to go there, which I'm sure was the case. Anyway,
Speaker 2: as soon as Holt and this small team come back,
Speaker 2: he says, can I go out there? And halts, thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: go on, go on, go on, And he says to
Speaker 2: sageant Adrew Spoons Stins, who'd just come in after four
Speaker 2: and a half hours of trogging around, will you come
Speaker 2: with me? And he went, okay, we'll go for a
Speaker 2: few minutes. So they off together. Now this is where
Speaker 2: it gets interesting. The actual location is never really specified,
Speaker 2: but what he says is it's close to the farmer's field.
Speaker 2: So it's all forests, and then there are a few
Speaker 2: little paths as they are now. It will look different then.
Speaker 2: But he said it was close to the It was
Speaker 2: in the forest, but it was close to the field.
Speaker 2: He said, I am walking about twenty meters behind John Borrows.
Speaker 2: He said, John Borrows is ahead of me on a path,
Speaker 2: and then suddenly I feel as if I'm kicked from behind,
Speaker 2: similar to what had happened when he walked through the
Speaker 2: line and the skirmish line, the search line. He said,
Speaker 2: I'd fall forward and at the same time I fall
Speaker 2: forward onto my knees and hands. John in front of
Speaker 2: him is engulfed in a massive, brilliant white light and
Speaker 2: I'm meaning gulfed like a spotlight. And he said, this
Speaker 2: is what Adrian Bestin's said that had never been revealed.
Speaker 2: He said, I saw John in the middle of this
Speaker 2: huge ball of white light. And he said, on the
Speaker 2: left of him was a small figure perhaps three four
Speaker 2: feet tall, indistinct, but as small now as anybody who's
Speaker 2: met John. He's like six foot six. He's a giant.
Speaker 2: And he said on the right hand side of John
Speaker 2: was another small figure, like an entity. But here's another thing.
Speaker 2: He said, when that light hit John, part of the
Speaker 2: light hit Adrian's hands and groin and he's had rashes
Speaker 2: there ever since.
Speaker 3: Ah. Wow, Hey, that's that's fascinating now.
Speaker 1: You know when Colonel Hall said that he saw this
Speaker 1: eyeball type thing, you know, going through the woods and
Speaker 1: like bouncing between trees and magma dripping whatever it was,
Speaker 1: did anyone else witness that?
Speaker 3: I never really understood that was it? Just yeah?
Speaker 2: Yet? No, no, no, no, they will have all witnessed it,
Speaker 2: but not all of them have gone really on the record.
Speaker 2: Lieutenant that was with him never went on the record.
Speaker 2: I think the other person that corroborates the molten what
Speaker 2: appeared to be molten metal dripping off was the Disaster
Speaker 2: Preparedness Officer Nevill's. He said he saw that because he
Speaker 2: was the one with the STASCO the early night vision
Speaker 2: and he was looking at that object across the field.
Speaker 2: But essentially nothing was ever physically recovered in terms of
Speaker 2: samples of what this material was. But it's not the
Speaker 2: only case where such material has been seen ufour cases.
Speaker 2: Historically it's rare, but there have been other cases around
Speaker 2: the world where similar kind of stuff appears to be
Speaker 2: dripping off, but it may be just an effect of
Speaker 2: being at low altitude or whatever. But essentially, there is
Speaker 2: no real corroboration of that other than what people have seen.
Speaker 2: But very few people have really gone on the record.
Speaker 2: But it's all apart. And this is I'm saying. We
Speaker 2: never have had Robert Ball going on the I don't
Speaker 2: even know if he's alive now we're talking forty five
Speaker 2: years on. I've tried to search for him. But if
Speaker 2: anybody knows former Sergeant Robert Ball out there who's listening
Speaker 2: to the show, please come forward. You know, if people
Speaker 2: know any of the key witnesses that have got information,
Speaker 2: please contact me. Because it's an evolving story and in
Speaker 2: this hour long show, there's only so much time I
Speaker 2: can get in, and I've tried to cover some of
Speaker 2: the main keys that's come out from my research, but
Speaker 2: there you go. I think that there's a huge narrative
Speaker 2: change needs to be made. One thing that I will say,
Speaker 2: with regard to the craft moving under the canopy of trees,
Speaker 2: when people go there now or see in documentaries, the
Speaker 2: forest that they're looking at is not the forest as
Speaker 2: it was then. Nine of the trees were felled, not
Speaker 2: over like skittles, in what was akin to a hurricane
Speaker 2: by UK standards, a major storm in nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 2: So they were all replanted. There are some original ones left,
Speaker 2: and if you ever go there, they're much taller than
Speaker 2: the others, like twice at all. But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: The original trees, the Corsican pine, didn't have branches that
Speaker 2: would start sticking out until about fifteen to twenty feet
Speaker 2: off the ground, and they were planted in very distinct rows,
Speaker 2: geometric rows. So if you looked under the canopy of
Speaker 2: the trees, like Colt would do with his team, he
Speaker 2: would see very clearly any object under a fifteen to
Speaker 2: twenty foot canopy. Yeah, so you would clearly see something
Speaker 2: red glowing object pairing to drip metal molten metal that
Speaker 2: add a black center like an eye winking it you.
Speaker 2: And he said it was clearly moving and maneuvering through
Speaker 2: the trees under the canopy. People go there now and
Speaker 2: there are different pines and the branches start much lower,
Speaker 2: so they think, oh, how could you see through all that?
Speaker 2: It's not the same. It was very much like stick
Speaker 2: men looking under the canopy. If you saw anything moving
Speaker 2: under that canopy, a red light and orange light, a
Speaker 2: white light, you would see it a long way.
Speaker 1: Off right now, just going back to what the debunkers
Speaker 1: have said about the White House, the argument that I've
Speaker 1: used when I talked to the average person about oh
Speaker 1: there was a white House, and I'd say, well, they
Speaker 1: would see the White House every night that it was on.
Speaker 1: You know, why would all of a sudden they think
Speaker 1: it's a UFO you know, I mean, people don't look
Speaker 1: at it that way or think about that.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 2: Well, the reality in my investigation was that if you
Speaker 2: had like an incident room and people tried to solve
Speaker 2: something straight away, people throwing ideas, and people go, it's
Speaker 2: the lighthouse. So initially it gets some look at and
Speaker 2: then you look at the facts around it and think, no,
Speaker 2: that's ludicrous. And it was ludicrous because essentially it wasn't
Speaker 2: made up until a few weeks afterwards, and it was
Speaker 2: put forward by an astronomer called Ian Ridpath, who did
Speaker 2: a classic piece for the BBC which then became a
Speaker 2: disinformation piece. And basically what he did was he took
Speaker 2: a BBC film crew out there and then he tried
Speaker 2: to they filmed in on the distant horizon of the
Speaker 2: lighthouse that went bump every five seconds two three four,
Speaker 2: and he matched it to the Holt's audio tape and
Speaker 2: he said, there you go. That's what they were looking at.
Speaker 2: But if it had matched it for another twenty seconds,
Speaker 2: it would have been out of sequence. Because all these
Speaker 2: different incidents, it doesn't explain why Holt and Peniston, as
Speaker 2: they're walking back after their first night landing, see an
Speaker 2: object go in the opposite direction.
Speaker 3: Above their heads.
Speaker 2: The blue light that's like a football size. No mention
Speaker 2: of that. Don't mention the objects seen by John Burrows
Speaker 2: going through the windows of a military vehicle that were
Speaker 2: down again, small blue light. He's waiting at the staging area.
Speaker 2: This is another sighting that people don't talk about. It's
Speaker 2: been depicted on a couple of documentaries and he said,
Speaker 2: John said, it came through the open window, went out
Speaker 2: the other window and at the same time with the
Speaker 2: Lightsholls blinked on for a few seconds. No, we're near
Speaker 2: the lighthouse. The lighthouse story was made up by the
Speaker 2: press because I believe they got a d notice, which
Speaker 2: in England means you do not talk about this subject
Speaker 2: and I think at the very highest levels the Americans
Speaker 2: didn't want this story to come out, and they went
Speaker 2: to the editors of the highest publications and said, d
Speaker 2: notice this does not get out. And the lighthouse story
Speaker 2: was always ludicrous, and there are so many things to
Speaker 2: pull it apout.
Speaker 1: Right right, we only got a couple of minutes left. Here,
Speaker 1: I'm going to pull up your book here, the PDF
Speaker 1: book that just came out. But also I want to
Speaker 1: ask you where where in reference to the incidents did
Speaker 1: this these five foot impressions?
Speaker 3: Where are they compared to you? Right?
Speaker 2: Hego there by the original one hundred and fifty meters
Speaker 2: would be northeast of the original backgate, not the gate
Speaker 2: that people go to now, because it moved approximately two
Speaker 2: hundred meters further forward. The original The original east gate,
Speaker 2: as in nineteen eighty was by a blast wall, well
Speaker 2: quite close to a blast wall, and the location then
Speaker 2: was the main gate. And you said it was one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty meters. So if you looked on a
Speaker 2: map from the east gate, point your forty five degree
Speaker 2: angle to your left from it, from the image of
Speaker 2: the east gate one hundred and fifty meters in it,
Speaker 2: it was in a clump of trees. Now those clump
Speaker 2: of trees do not exist now because the forest nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty seven, there would never rechanges in an area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, So well this has been really The hour
Speaker 1: went by really fast, and I thank you. It's you
Speaker 1: got a little bit of a break because of earlier
Speaker 1: than normal. So you're in the UK and it's almost
Speaker 1: eleven there, I think now instead of when you would
Speaker 1: have started at at midnight. But yeah, yeah, it's been
Speaker 1: great and we'll have you back on again. I think
Speaker 1: this is fascinating and if anyone.
Speaker 2: To talk about, if you want to go down that room.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, excellent, and I thank you for your work.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you've you've uncovered quite a bit, so
Speaker 1: I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 3: I try, all right, all right, take care.
Speaker 1: All right, So if you're watching the shows here on YouTube,
Speaker 1: the next one with Robert Sallas, Bob Celes and Kevin
Speaker 1: Randall that's coming up at seven pm, And thank you
Speaker 1: all for watching and listening, and remember to keep your
Speaker 1: eyes to the sky.