Speaker 1: It's Josh Freaky with a couple of dump shits.
Speaker 2: Hello, Primates.
Speaker 1: That greeting has a particular significance today. Anyway, you found
Speaker 1: Primus Tracks. Congratulations, I am feeling pretty bubbly. I'm doctor
Speaker 1: Josh Bald, one of the hosts of Primus Tracks. He
Speaker 1: is bursting with excitement today from the thirty ninth floor
Speaker 1: of Primus Tracks Towers is Encyclopedia. Frankie Beresteine, Hey, Josh, Frankie,
Speaker 1: it's a big day here at Primus Tracks, where it's
Speaker 1: the end of the record. We're getting close to the
Speaker 1: end of the Monolith of Phobos, and we are celebrating
Speaker 1: the release of the Great Paradox and the Golden Egg
Speaker 1: of Empathy.
Speaker 2: So when one thing finishes, another begins.
Speaker 1: Is in life a circle? That's right, just circular like
Speaker 1: the face of a chimpanzee. It's true. We are talking
Speaker 1: about bubbles Burst today. What do you want to say
Speaker 1: about the new Claypool Lendon Delirium record Quick capsule review Frankie.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm super excited about it. It does have
Speaker 2: a lot of replay value for me, and I've been
Speaker 2: playing it once or twice per day since he was released,
Speaker 2: and I'm still I'm still getting acquainted with it. I'm
Speaker 2: still discovering things here and there. I do have my
Speaker 2: favorites pretty well established, but I'm still discovering things in
Speaker 2: all the other tracks. And what I particularly enjoy about
Speaker 2: it is that it works as a concept piece when
Speaker 2: you play it back to back, but the songs stand
Speaker 2: on their own and you can also enjoy them as
Speaker 2: individual pieces. Troll b It is already one of my
Speaker 2: all time favorite Clippo. Then on the lyric tracks, that
Speaker 2: song is just fantastic. We'll go deeper into it in
Speaker 2: a couple of years, but.
Speaker 1: Whatever we could do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Rich made a really fantastic companion piece
Speaker 2: with the with the comic book and what I do.
Speaker 2: What I appreciate the most about this record is that
Speaker 2: it feels rewarding for physical media enthusiasts like myself in
Speaker 2: a day and age where everything is streamed and then forgotten.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really great thing that they put
Speaker 2: out a record that goes beyond the liner notes and
Speaker 2: actually offers you something to dig into and enjoy. I
Speaker 2: did spend a lot of a long time gazing at
Speaker 2: those illustrations taking the story and what can I say?
Speaker 2: What a fantastic release. What's your early take on the record.
Speaker 1: I've only had time to get through it twice and
Speaker 1: I have not much to say about it yet, which
Speaker 1: I suppose allows me to save it for the individual episodes.
Speaker 1: But there are some things that have caught my ears.
Speaker 1: There's plenty that has caught my eye thanks to Rich Ragsdale.
Speaker 1: And if you haven't listened to our episode with Rich
Speaker 1: Ragsdale for crying out loud, go do it right now.
Speaker 1: Press pause on this one. Okay, you're back. You've listened
Speaker 1: to the Rich raged episode. Great, and we may continue
Speaker 1: talking about bubbles Burst. It is track ten on your
Speaker 1: Monolith of Phobos record. It checks in at four minutes
Speaker 1: and ten seconds. Credits are as follows. Music Sean Lennon
Speaker 1: and Less Claypool, lyrics Sean Lennon, Less Claypool vocals and bass,
Speaker 1: Lennon vocals, guitar, melotron and drums. And on your vinyl edition,
Speaker 1: Frankie Less is credited with lead vocals on this track.
Speaker 1: That seems in error. Yeah, so something happened there. I
Speaker 1: guess that makes your vinyl Collector's item.
Speaker 2: Now, do not forget. We need to talk about the
Speaker 2: music video.
Speaker 1: Certainly there's a music video. There's even a demo version
Speaker 1: of this tune. This there's a lot around bubbles Burst, and.
Speaker 2: Because it was it was the gateway to the Delirium.
Speaker 2: It was the first thing they ever put out, so
Speaker 2: I think they wanted to make a big show about it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you can address all of that and more
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Well, no, actually, I think Cricket was the introduction to
Speaker 2: the Delirium. Yes, you're right, Yeah, that was the lead single, Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: But Bubbles was the first track to receive a music
Speaker 2: video and the only track so far which we've been
Speaker 2: able to hear in demo format from the Delirium catalog.
Speaker 2: So I think that while well, Cricket was the gateway
Speaker 2: to Delyrium, I think Bubbles garnered a bit more of
Speaker 2: attention because of its subject matter. And we'll go into
Speaker 2: that in a moment. Let's just review some statistics. Bubbles
Speaker 2: Burst was performed heavily during the twenty sixteen portion of
Speaker 2: the promotion of the record, when it was brand new,
Speaker 2: when it was fresh. And the thing is that while
Speaker 2: all the other tracks were dobro pieces, which were accommodated
Speaker 2: to PACYDRM on the second leg. Bubbles Burst was performed
Speaker 2: on Packyrm since the very beginning, it was always a
Speaker 2: PACKYDRM song. Interesting, Yes, and the song was performed for
Speaker 2: the last time to date at that back to back
Speaker 2: show in the Boulder Theater in Colorado. It has not
Speaker 2: been performed again since in any delirium cons Curiously, the
Speaker 2: song was mentioned by Sean Lennon during the recent Golden
Speaker 2: Egg of Empathy listening party. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: if you caught that part in the in the chat,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I think someone might have brought up the
Speaker 2: track And then Sean said that they used to perform
Speaker 2: it at the beginning, but they dropped it because he
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, but he said something like people just weren't
Speaker 2: into it that much. So it was perceived as kind
Speaker 2: of a downer. She was removed from from the setlists.
Speaker 1: And I assume by downer you mean it's so down
Speaker 1: tempo that it's not engaging the crowd as much as
Speaker 1: something a bit more upbeat.
Speaker 2: With and well, and it's sad. I mean lyrically, it's
Speaker 2: a very sad song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I it's something you're playing to fifteen hundred people,
Speaker 1: and then you remind them of the the insanity of
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. You're gonna they're gonna get lost in thought.
Speaker 3: And it's and this is something that was highlighted that
Speaker 3: the Bullboard when the album had just come out ten
Speaker 3: years ago, lots of people made the same observation that
Speaker 3: the song was really sad, that it kind of ended
Speaker 3: the record on a very sad note.
Speaker 1: It is, I agree, it is. The musicality of it.
Speaker 1: The musicianship is all fantastic, but it is so I'm
Speaker 1: struggling for a word. It's not depressing, but it certainly
Speaker 1: is not a joyful tune. And then the lyrics on
Speaker 1: top of it, it's it's bizarre. It is a bizarre
Speaker 1: tune and I really like it.
Speaker 2: And I think it perfectly. It perfectly highlights what Liz
Speaker 2: saith about how jarring and how drastic the differences in
Speaker 2: their lives are when they started to get to know
Speaker 2: each other, and Less said, well, I come from a
Speaker 2: long line of mechanics, so he couldn't believe some of
Speaker 2: the things Sewn just casually threw out right, like being
Speaker 2: getting picked up at school by David Bowie and being
Speaker 2: helped by him to do the homework, being babysat by
Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher, and then hanging out with Michael Jackson's pet Chimpinzee.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was. In the interstitials on that Boston Live performance,
Speaker 1: they have those interviews in between some of the tunes,
Speaker 1: and Less tongue in cheeks says, yeah, Sean had a
Speaker 1: really normal upbringing, no different than anybody else. I'm paraphrasing,
Speaker 1: but something like that, and yeah, what a childhood. So
Speaker 1: what's interesting is that this He says he's resisted writing
Speaker 1: songs about his life experiences, had up to that point
Speaker 1: for quite some time, but in talking with Less, he
Speaker 1: was convinced to just write about bubbles and that experience.
Speaker 1: In fact, Frankie, we can let Sean Lennon do all
Speaker 1: the talking today if you like. He was on All
Speaker 1: Songs Considered on NPR back in June of twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: had a nice conversation with the host of that program
Speaker 1: and answered a lot of questions that you and I
Speaker 1: probably would have lobbed his way as well.
Speaker 4: But there's also a new video for the song that
Speaker 4: makes it all seem a lot more unsettling. Newell Fielding
Speaker 4: of the UK show The Mighty Boosh portrays Jackson, and
Speaker 4: he does it in such a wildly exaggerated way that
Speaker 4: he makes Jackson seem almost grotesque or demented, like he's
Speaker 4: completely insane. As the video unfolds, he tries to convince
Speaker 4: Bubbles to take a bath with him, to be his friend,
Speaker 4: and to share candy together.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to play that part first because the
Speaker 1: host seems incredulous at the portrayal of Michael Jackson and
Speaker 1: the Bubbles first video, which if you have not seen
Speaker 1: that video, he's spot on the Noel Fielding portrayal and
Speaker 1: the direction and by Less. By the way, Less directed
Speaker 1: the live action portions of the video, with of course
Speaker 1: animation by our friend Webster cold Cord. Near the end,
Speaker 1: Less is using a lot of close ups and upshots,
Speaker 1: and so Nol Fielding and as Michael Jackson makeup and
Speaker 1: costuming is right in your face and he's above you.
Speaker 1: So it's disconcerting, it's it's brilliant in that regard.
Speaker 2: I think Charlotte also had a hand in the video, right.
Speaker 1: Sean and Charlotte are credited as producers, along with Age
Speaker 1: and Oh Yeah, Cool Yeah, everybody was on deck for
Speaker 1: this one. So the video itself is certainly I actually
Speaker 1: I really like the video because I like some of this,
Speaker 1: you know, I like freak out stuff. Why not?
Speaker 2: And I urge you listeners to check out our classic
Speaker 2: Webster Cold Court episode which we're recorded way way back,
Speaker 2: because he goes into great detail about the claimation portion
Speaker 2: of these video.
Speaker 1: Right and as far as the live action goes, Nolan
Speaker 1: Mike Fielding do wonderful work as Michael and Bubbles uh
Speaker 1: those you probably know those names from the Mighty Boosh
Speaker 1: uh and Noel if I recall correctly, Frankie is an
Speaker 1: outspoken Primus and Less Claypool fan, so I think that
Speaker 1: connection was ready, it.
Speaker 2: Goes, It goes both ways. I think Less he's a
Speaker 2: huge fan as well.
Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent. Yes, uh. Less is noted for
Speaker 1: his affinity for British and UK comedies.
Speaker 2: Especially he's got those paintings hanging that popularm station.
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, yes, so he's those those two guys
Speaker 1: certainly have a connection. So those close ups of Noel
Speaker 1: Fielding's face as Michael Jackson are just excellent. They really
Speaker 1: they really portray just this uh, this feeling of being
Speaker 1: kind of love bombed in a way like he's so
Speaker 1: he's so doting on Bubbles in this representation in the video,
Speaker 1: but he's above you, you know, because the camera's below
Speaker 1: his face, and so he's almost smothering you. And I
Speaker 1: think that's really good direction and camera work coming from
Speaker 1: from Less who wrote and directed the video. It's it's bizarre.
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of it. So let's return to
Speaker 1: the conversation from All Songs Considered with Sean Lennon about
Speaker 1: the purpose of the video.
Speaker 5: For me, I think it's important that even if people
Speaker 5: don't believe me or are angry about the way Michael's
Speaker 5: portrayed in the video, that the truth is my intention
Speaker 5: is very sincere and harmless, and I'm just making a song.
Speaker 5: I'm not like trying to take him out or anything
Speaker 5: or put him down. It was just kind of like
Speaker 5: having fun and trying to talk about an odd situation
Speaker 5: in a way that makes it art. The idea of
Speaker 5: like Childhood's inn in Bubbles Burst was using the metaphor
Speaker 5: of a chimne who's fun when he's a toy, but
Speaker 5: then when he gets old, like things get too real.
Speaker 5: Using that as a metaphor for my life and specifically,
Speaker 5: you know, a feeling that was hovering around when I
Speaker 5: was hanging out with Michael.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, he also goes on Frankie to explain why
Speaker 1: this track was included on Monolith Phobos.
Speaker 5: Well, I was telling you less about it, he's and
Speaker 5: we were talking about song topics, and it just seemed
Speaker 5: like it fit in with the theme of kind of
Speaker 5: a trippy narrative that our record has, and you know,
Speaker 5: I thought it would be interesting to write about something
Speaker 5: that actually happened. I don't know, it just felt right.
Speaker 5: I think I sort of resisted much of my life
Speaker 5: talking about those kinds of stories because they just seemed
Speaker 5: so hard for me to figure out how to translate
Speaker 5: them or relate them. Yea, Yeah, And I just thought
Speaker 5: it was an interesting metaphor for kind of what happened
Speaker 5: to a lot of Michael's friends who were my age.
Speaker 5: You know, it felt like there was something odd going on,
Speaker 5: and I didn't I still don't know what it's. You know,
Speaker 5: nothing ever weird happened to me in an illegal way,
Speaker 5: but it's just the whole place seemed like I was
Speaker 5: in some sort of Peter Pan fantasy land, and there
Speaker 5: was a sense that when Bubbles got too old, he
Speaker 5: had to be gotten rid of, you know, because chimpanzees
Speaker 5: turned into angry adults.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting that he's getting into this the metaphor
Speaker 1: of the bubble and the bubble bursting. Yes, and so
Speaker 1: the childhood being that bubble. He also, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've played it yet. He also describes Michael's life
Speaker 1: as a bubble and before there was a lot of
Speaker 1: media and even law enforcement scrutiny of his actions.
Speaker 2: That's certainly what it sounds like. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sean also gets into an explanation of these lyrics.
Speaker 4: The line you say, there's a in the song where
Speaker 4: you say we didn't understand dancing with Peter pan I
Speaker 4: assume you mean Michael.
Speaker 1: What would be the result?
Speaker 4: What would what would be the result when we turned
Speaker 4: into young adults?
Speaker 5: Yeah, because he didn't realize that it was neither nor
Speaker 5: bubbles nor eye realized, you know, that getting older was
Speaker 5: going to make it make us less viable playmates, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And there was something kind of sad about that. So
Speaker 5: I don't know, I wasn't trying to judge the situation
Speaker 5: in a positive or negative sense. I just was trying
Speaker 5: to explain, like what it felt like.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a great point because he's not
Speaker 1: trying to pass judgment. We know michaels as.
Speaker 2: They were our facts, Yeah, and we know Michael surrounded
Speaker 2: himself with particular kind of company.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that Michael had some issues. I'm glad
Speaker 1: nothing happened to Sean, obviously, but it's certain beyond the
Speaker 1: realm of the ordinary, what Michael was doing, and the
Speaker 1: fact that he had friends that were decades younger than him, yes,
Speaker 1: speaks to some things that can get see me unseemly.
Speaker 2: They can, and you can understand perfectly why. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, I mean, I'm not like a Michael
Speaker 2: Jackson advocator. I do admire his work. I'm not invested
Speaker 2: in defending his public image. But I think that having
Speaker 2: seen the Living with Michael Jackson documentary a couple of times,
Speaker 2: you do get a very interesting glimpse into his persona
Speaker 2: and it does, I mean, at least for me, it
Speaker 2: did lessen the impression or the doubt about whether he
Speaker 2: ever did something malicious, because in that documentary you kind
Speaker 2: of see behind the scenes Michael Jackson he's not on stage,
Speaker 2: he's not performing, he's just doing his regular activities. And
Speaker 2: you do notice quite a few things in the documentary.
Speaker 2: First of all, how incredibly lonely he was. There's a
Speaker 2: part in the documentary where he's just writing a golf
Speaker 2: cart around the hotel, which was fully booked for him
Speaker 2: and as such it's only inhabited by his crew at
Speaker 2: the moment, and he's just driving that golf cart around
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night because he's got no
Speaker 2: one to talk to, he's got nothing to do. He
Speaker 2: probably couldn't sleep, and I mean, it just shows that
Speaker 2: he never really had a friend or someone at hand
Speaker 2: to combat that or to lessen that loneliness. There's also
Speaker 2: a part where he's leaving a mall and a fan
Speaker 2: attempt to approach him and the fences. I know all
Speaker 2: your songs on guitar. I love playing your songs on guitar,
Speaker 2: and Michael seems genuinely interested in having a conversation with him,
Speaker 2: but then he's whiskered away by security, and you can
Speaker 2: see the disappointment in Michael's face. And there's another part
Speaker 2: where he's confronted by Martin Bashir, who was by the way.
Speaker 2: He was very heavily criticized by when this documentary came
Speaker 2: out because of his approach, which was kind of it
Speaker 2: had kind of an ambush quality to it. So he
Speaker 2: confronted Michael near the end of the documentary and he said, well,
Speaker 2: you're you're sleeping with underage boys in your bath. You
Speaker 2: have sleepovers with boys, you don't you see how that
Speaker 2: can be perceived the wrong way? And you can see
Speaker 2: just how brutally honest Michael is in his replies. He says, no, nothing,
Speaker 2: nothing malicious is going on. We just sleep. We just
Speaker 2: sleep together. And that doesn't make it right, but it
Speaker 2: does keep you in pro ession that Michael was a
Speaker 2: kid in his mind. He perceived himself just like the
Speaker 2: rest of the boys. I don't think in his mind
Speaker 2: he was an adult doing something creepy with children. In
Speaker 2: his mind, I think he was genuinely having a sleepover
Speaker 2: with his friends. And that is reinforced by a portion
Speaker 2: of the documentary where they are exploring Neverland and Michael
Speaker 2: is walking around with a group of kids and then
Speaker 2: this guy comes out with an ice cream cart and
Speaker 2: he says, who would like to have the first scoop?
Speaker 2: And you can see Michael pushing back the children and
Speaker 2: saying saying me, I mean that does paint a picture
Speaker 2: of a guy that thought of himself as a child.
Speaker 1: I think he either never grew up or never had
Speaker 1: a childhood.
Speaker 2: I think his childhood was stolen. Definitely.
Speaker 1: Oh, certainly he was. You know, he was on stage
Speaker 1: at such an early age. Didn't have a normal childhood either.
Speaker 1: So I don't suppose you we're here to psycho analyze
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2: So just just sharing some facts. But if you, by
Speaker 2: the way, if you enjoyed Noel Fielding's performance in the
Speaker 2: Bubbles Verst video, you got to check him out and
Speaker 2: black Ding Paler by Casabian where he performs the part
Speaker 2: of Blad Dame Paler.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. I will check that out.
Speaker 2: He's dressed up as as Blad and he's walking around
Speaker 2: carrying a huge pine pine tree.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he can replicate Vladi in Paler's sweet
Speaker 1: moves much like he did Michael's.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think he nails I think he nailed those.
Speaker 1: I do want to play one more clip from the
Speaker 1: All Songs Considered about.
Speaker 2: Oh, then I'll take my quote with you after that.
Speaker 1: One, please.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: So this is in particular about Noel's portrayal.
Speaker 4: Well, so you've got a guy portraying Michael Jackson in
Speaker 4: the video, and I don't think it's a stretch to
Speaker 4: say that it's not a terribly flattering portrayal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean I don't think that
Speaker 5: creepiness is insulting. I just think it's more fun. And
Speaker 5: I think the video is like a it's a parallel dimension,
Speaker 5: and it's a dark kind of comedic manifestation of something
Speaker 5: that comes more out of the song and not out
Speaker 5: of real life. So it's like a reflection of a reflection.
Speaker 5: But of course the whole story has a darkness to it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I don't feel like the representation of him isn't I mean,
Speaker 5: as a visual poem, I think it kind of represents
Speaker 5: something real. You know. He was very lonely, and he
Speaker 5: was weird, and he had weird interests, and he was
Speaker 5: in this kind of you know, Peter Pan universe that
Speaker 5: he created a bubble for himself, you know, and there's
Speaker 5: something dark about that there.
Speaker 1: You go, Wow, what's your what's the quote?
Speaker 2: You have?
Speaker 1: Dogment?
Speaker 2: I think it's just one of many stories I have
Speaker 2: that are interesting from having a different kind of childhood.
Speaker 2: But it's a song about being friends with Bubble, Michael
Speaker 2: Jackson's chimpanzee, and spending time at Michael's house in California
Speaker 2: with Bubbles and a Boa Constrictor and a bunch of
Speaker 2: other animals. I think that was a super strange time,
Speaker 2: but not in a dark way, in an odd way,
Speaker 2: a unique way. It was odd because Bubbles was older,
Speaker 2: stop in Dandie the Outfits, and we were all running
Speaker 2: around playing video games with a chimpanzee. It was a
Speaker 2: surreal scene. It was kind of part Charlie and the
Speaker 2: Chocolate Factory, part Doctor Dolittle, and part you know, more
Speaker 2: Town's greatest hits. It was a conversience conversions of a
Speaker 2: lot of desperated universes that merged for a while. And
Speaker 2: that was a strange scene, but it was also really fun.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was amazing to hang out with all
Speaker 2: those animals, but there was also something very eccentric about it.
Speaker 2: He was the coolest dude I've met, for sure. Referring
Speaker 2: to Michael, he says, I mean people, they have a
Speaker 2: lot of opinions about him, and like anything else, my
Speaker 2: opinions can only be based on my experience. He was
Speaker 2: super fun to hang out with. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: a big keith, you know. The time that I got
Speaker 2: to spend with him was like Disneyland all day long.
Speaker 2: He'd set up water balloon fights and pie fights and
Speaker 2: basketball courts, just really fun stuff where he'd invite all
Speaker 2: his friends over and there'd be two teams and everyone
Speaker 2: would dress in garbage bags and throw pies at each other.
Speaker 2: It was a super high level fun orchestrated insanity. I mean,
Speaker 2: whatever happened with him and anyone else, I have no
Speaker 2: opinion about it because I wasn't there. But when I
Speaker 2: talk about it in Bubbles Burst, I wasn't trying to
Speaker 2: be critical. I was simply trying to document the truth
Speaker 2: this happened, That's all I will say. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people thought I was criticizing him, or not
Speaker 2: criticizing him enough, or whatever, But it wasn't about that.
Speaker 2: The song was really just documenting a strange time in
Speaker 2: my life, a surreal moment of my life that is
Speaker 2: very memorable.
Speaker 1: I think that stands in support of what we heard
Speaker 1: from him earlier and what we said, which is this
Speaker 1: is Sean telling his lived experience. He can't speak to
Speaker 1: anything else and won't, but I do appreciate the metaphor
Speaker 1: of childhood's and the bubble bursting. Childhood does feel like
Speaker 1: a really comfortable bubble that you're in. Transitioning to adulthood
Speaker 1: bursts that bubble and then you are saddled with all
Speaker 1: the responsibilities of being an adult, or you know, in
Speaker 1: Sean's case, he aged out of being Michael's friend and
Speaker 1: the bubble burst for him. I don't think too many
Speaker 1: people have had similar childhood experiences, so I'm glad he
Speaker 1: told the story, you know, with him telling the story
Speaker 1: of the lyrics for us, we don't really have to
Speaker 1: say much other than I really love the line feasting
Speaker 1: on candy and dressed like a dandy.
Speaker 2: We do need to highlight how the video I mean,
Speaker 2: because it's a laypole and on the Delrium track. It's
Speaker 2: kind of a cult thing. It's not that much in
Speaker 2: the mainstream, but it did generate some backlash, and I
Speaker 2: think it did garner attention from people whom otherwise would
Speaker 2: never have felt the need to attack less Claypoole on YouTube,
Speaker 2: and I think it's understandable. I mean, there were quite
Speaker 2: a few negative comments when the video came out all
Speaker 2: over on YouTube, read it and elsewhere. And while I
Speaker 2: don't agree with the comments, I do understand where they
Speaker 2: come from. Michael Jackson fans are very protective of his
Speaker 2: image and his life, and I understand why they would
Speaker 2: react in such way to the video, which to them
Speaker 2: might come across as a parody, as a hard critique
Speaker 2: right because of the exaggerated way in which he was portrayed.
Speaker 2: But I think this also steems from the way they
Speaker 2: perceived Michael to have kind of a fragility to him,
Speaker 2: a vulnerability, I guess, and an example of that would
Speaker 2: be the Jeffersons from South Park. We know that over
Speaker 2: the time some celebrities have actually been vocal about their
Speaker 2: disapproval of their portrayals in South Park, one high profile
Speaker 2: case being Barbara Streisand, whom is known to have hated
Speaker 2: the mecha Strisand episode, and the case of Michael, he
Speaker 2: never he never went on a record publicly to express
Speaker 2: an opinion about the episode, but I've read that people
Speaker 2: close to him said that he was deeply hurt by
Speaker 2: the episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember hearing about that. There's all these layers,
Speaker 1: you know, celebrity, being a pop star, what you miss
Speaker 1: when you don't have, you know, what we would call
Speaker 1: a modern childhood, being an adult trying to get that
Speaker 1: back some way, and just what that does to your
Speaker 1: emotional state. And that's just the beginning. There's there's so
Speaker 1: much more to it. It's and then of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then of course what people say about you in
Speaker 1: the public sphere, because you're a public figure and there's
Speaker 1: always somebody trying to score points off you. I would
Speaker 1: say in general, Michael didn't do himself any favors.
Speaker 2: And Sean used a key word in his quote. He said, insanity,
Speaker 2: And yeah, that is precisely what I think these was.
Speaker 2: I mean, having a pit chimpanzee. It cannot be described
Speaker 2: in any other way other than insane. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's interesting because, as as I mentioned previously, I don't
Speaker 2: think there was any malicious intent. People can be very
Speaker 2: critical about chimpanzee pets, and one high profile example being
Speaker 2: Charlen Nash who have her face, nose, eyelids, and hands
Speaker 2: tore off by a chimpanzee who was the pet chimp
Speaker 2: from her friend Wow. And that that chimpanzee was called Travis,
Speaker 2: and that was a high profile case from two thousand
Speaker 2: and nine. And I mean if people have been very
Speaker 2: critical about that, of course they would be hyper critical
Speaker 2: about a pop star having a pet chimpanzee, which could
Speaker 2: be perceived as something really frivolous. Again, I don't think
Speaker 2: Michael understood the ramifications of what having a pet chimpanzee involved.
Speaker 2: There were actually some observations from people close to him
Speaker 2: whom expressed their disapproval about it. Housekeepers included they were
Speaker 2: not third, They were not thrilled about having to wipe
Speaker 2: off feces from the wall on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: If you were going to pull anybody in that organization
Speaker 1: may be the first one to stand up and say no.
Speaker 2: Yesh Rashida Jones also went on record to say that
Speaker 2: she was bitten by Bubbles once.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know.
Speaker 2: She tried to discipline him because he was being ruth
Speaker 2: and he beat her hand.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So by two thousand and three, when Bubbles had
Speaker 2: become more aggressive and dangerous, no pun intended. I think
Speaker 2: that Michael was not aware of what having a pitt
Speaker 2: chimpanzee involved until two thousand and five, when he was
Speaker 2: taken away. Right now, as of the present, Bubbles is
Speaker 2: still alive. He hates being photographed, he likes throwing water
Speaker 2: and sand at people, and he enjoys the companies of
Speaker 2: other chimps. I believe he's at a sanctuary and the
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson State still covers all of his expenses to
Speaker 2: this day.
Speaker 1: Wow, I was unaware Bubbles was still around, So that's fast.
Speaker 2: He's still around, But he looks nothing like that adorable
Speaker 2: chimp that Michael used to carry around in his arms.
Speaker 2: His features changed quite a bit, and as Allan do,
Speaker 2: his current takers describe him as very shy, but with
Speaker 2: a sweet temper, and known to have an inclination towards
Speaker 2: the arts. He enjoys painting and in listening to music.
Speaker 1: Now, now do we know his attitude towards Michael Fielding's
Speaker 1: portrayal of him in the video.
Speaker 2: That's a that's a great question.
Speaker 1: I guess you could look at it as when a
Speaker 1: kid says I want a pet chimp, you say, oh,
Speaker 1: that's cute. You know they're they're a kid, they want
Speaker 1: a chimp. They don't understand. It's unfeasible when an adult
Speaker 1: millionaire says I want a chimp, and they go out
Speaker 1: and get one. All right, something's something's up anyhow.
Speaker 2: There's a parallel there with Prince, and I think it
Speaker 2: illustrates it illustrates very well the mentality of people like
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson acquiring pet chimpanzees. There was a Q and
Speaker 2: A with Kevin Smith quite a few years ago where
Speaker 2: somebody asked about his experience working with Prince, and Kevin
Speaker 2: goes into this thirty minute plus tangent to answer the question,
Speaker 2: describing in detail all his experience. Long story short. There
Speaker 2: was one one day at Paisley Park where Kevin had
Speaker 2: just had about enough and he was having a conversation
Speaker 2: with Prince's assistant and Kevin just casually asked, is he
Speaker 2: always such an asshole? And the assistant told him, he's
Speaker 2: not aware that he's being an asshole. She said, for instance,
Speaker 2: the last week, Prince called me at two am and
Speaker 2: he told me that he wanted me to secure a
Speaker 2: camel for him. And Kevin asked, why did he want
Speaker 2: a camel? She said, I've stopped asking those kinds of
Speaker 2: questions a long time ago. I don't know why he
Speaker 2: wanted a camel at two in the morning in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2: But I had to tell him that it was not
Speaker 2: feasible for me to produce a camel at that time
Speaker 2: or ever. And she said, but he was not trying
Speaker 2: to be an asshole. He just couldn't understand why it
Speaker 2: wasn't possible, because in his mind it was a perfectly
Speaker 2: feasible request. And I think that perfectly illustrates what happened
Speaker 2: with Bubbles. I think Michael didn't think there was anything
Speaker 2: wrong with securing a pet chimpanzee and having him playing
Speaker 2: around with other children. I think another example would be
Speaker 2: Michael's attempt to purchase Joseph Merrick's skeleton. About that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you could look at it from the angle of well,
Speaker 2: does these guys seriously believe that he's entitled to something
Speaker 2: like that? But I think you have to approach it
Speaker 2: from the perspective that in his mind, he was not
Speaker 2: doing anything wrong by asking. So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the mind of a child in the mind
Speaker 1: of a deranged millionaire. The only difference is one of
Speaker 1: them has the means exactly. All Right, we were through
Speaker 1: the looking glass. Now we've done it. Let's sample some
Speaker 1: of the music here. I actually want to play the
Speaker 1: demo first, and I don't know if I'm blowing your
Speaker 1: mind by telling you, Frankie, I prefer the demo version
Speaker 1: of this song.
Speaker 2: You said that before. I think it's quite interesting.
Speaker 1: I think it's very fitting because this is such an
Speaker 1: introspective tune. To hear the demo, which is Sean solo acoustic. Essentially,
Speaker 1: he's just sitting on his porch and playing this chord
Speaker 1: progression and singing his song. For those of you who
Speaker 1: have not heard the Bubbles demo, it was a bonus
Speaker 1: track on the Japanese edition of Monolithiphobos. I looked for
Speaker 1: it on YouTube, Frankie, because I had lost my MP
Speaker 1: three copy of it. I think it's pretty hard to find.
Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah, and I'm amazed that was included
Speaker 2: in the Japanese pressing in the first place. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love getting a demo, and of course it's for
Speaker 1: a Sean song, not a less song. Let's hear a
Speaker 1: Let's hear a titch of that.
Speaker 6: In eighty three.
Speaker 2: Texas FIR seventy, he was just a few months song.
Speaker 1: Taling he'd been.
Speaker 2: So name, fun name.
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't really sound like a demo because
Speaker 1: of the quality. But in twenty sixteen. A demo can
Speaker 1: sound like a polished studio recording. But yes, the guitars
Speaker 1: sound fantastic. I like the pacing. It just sounds like
Speaker 1: a like a singer songwriter rendition, kind of a stripped
Speaker 1: down version of it. I would imagine you remember our
Speaker 1: pal Matt Weiniger said he heard Sean Strumman this tune
Speaker 1: at Rancho Alaxo and said that's good. You better record it.
Speaker 1: And Sean said, I did, I got it. You know,
Speaker 1: if Matt Winerger tells you what's good, you better record it.
Speaker 2: And I want to point out that the lyrics are
Speaker 2: factually correct. Bubbles was born at a research facility in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, a facility which bread chimpanzees with the
Speaker 2: purpose of conducting research. Michael acquired him when he was
Speaker 2: eight months old, and the purchase was looked by Bob
Speaker 2: Dun animal experts.
Speaker 1: Wow, a chimpanzee in a facility in nineteen eighty three
Speaker 1: sounds like the beginning of Stranger Things.
Speaker 2: Right very close.
Speaker 1: So that's that's just a sample of the demo. It's
Speaker 1: very satisfying for me, although Frankie had to send me
Speaker 1: his copy of it, and I take umbrage Frankie because
Speaker 1: in the metadata you have the artist's Primus.
Speaker 2: Yes, because all my stuff is under Primus.
Speaker 1: How could you do this? Even though I don't like
Speaker 1: I don't like your bowie, that's all under Primis too.
Speaker 2: I don't like to be clicking around like going through
Speaker 2: Claypool Delirium Primos. Now, just everything under Primus and life
Speaker 2: is much easier.
Speaker 1: But this, but that's your digital collection digital, yes, of course, Okay,
Speaker 1: you don't do that with your records and tapes and CDs.
Speaker 2: Everything is chronological.
Speaker 1: We had that discussion with Sam.
Speaker 5: So Yeah.
Speaker 1: Note to any visitors to Primus tracks towers, if you're
Speaker 1: able to breach security and get into Frankie's record collection,
Speaker 1: just move one of them, just one, and and on
Speaker 1: your way out as you're escorted out by security, Uh,
Speaker 1: tell him you moved just one and see how long
Speaker 1: it takes him to find it, how many how many
Speaker 1: wigs into pays he goes through as he grips his
Speaker 1: hair out. Uh So the studio cut that we're all
Speaker 1: familiar with has a lot more instrumentation to it. It's
Speaker 1: got a lot going on. I would never be Yeah,
Speaker 1: the bass is pretty cool. I would never yeah, and
Speaker 1: I would never say a track by the Claypool Lenon
Speaker 1: Delirium is overproduced. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 1: it's still bass, drums, guitar, melotron, vocals. Yes, but they
Speaker 1: do put it all together, even though this is down
Speaker 1: tempo and probably didn't translate live, which is why we
Speaker 1: haven't heard of it for almost a decade. I think
Speaker 1: I think it all comes together very nicely.
Speaker 2: And and it's it's very interesting because Less has said.
Speaker 1: How.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I didn't that was that was the shut of music, right,
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: Playing you off? No, I just turned it all the
Speaker 1: way down because I was going to try to queue
Speaker 1: up apart go ahead.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Well, how Less and Sean have said that they
Speaker 2: push each other artistically, like Les pushes Sean to be
Speaker 2: more technically proficient, and Sean pushes Less to explore melody
Speaker 2: in a way which he otherwise wouldn't with the rest
Speaker 2: of his of his work, and not only vocally, because
Speaker 2: I mean you do get Less uh doing vocal harmonies,
Speaker 2: which is not something common in his discography, but in
Speaker 2: this track, but in this trick, but I mean not
Speaker 2: not in in the way that he does it with
Speaker 2: with delirium, but with this track in particular, I think
Speaker 2: that goes beyond the vocal harmonies. And it's also prevalent
Speaker 2: in the way he played the bassline. It's so melancholic
Speaker 2: and evocative in a way that I hadn't heard him
Speaker 2: play like that before. Prior to this track, I had
Speaker 2: never heard a less Colleople baseline and thought, oh wow,
Speaker 2: that's that's really sad. That had never happened before until
Speaker 2: this song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the closest we come to this kind
Speaker 1: of melodic, almost pretty playing as Mary Day ice Cube
Speaker 1: and that, And I'm not saying it's similar at all
Speaker 1: other than in that spirit. I think because this is yeah,
Speaker 1: this is pretty, yes, but.
Speaker 2: It's also very enjoyable because it's not flat. I mean,
Speaker 2: it doesn't stay the same through the It actually has
Speaker 2: very clear different sections. And my favorite, of course, as
Speaker 2: you know that you know that I'm a very cathartic person,
Speaker 2: So my favorite part is the catharis of the track
Speaker 2: at the end, which is also which is very reminiscent
Speaker 2: of the on Boomerang Baby.
Speaker 1: By the way, Yeah, it's related. I think that catharsis
Speaker 1: is emblematic of the instrumentation you know, reaching reaching a
Speaker 1: higher level after all the melodic beauty, uh and or
Speaker 1: I guess melancholic beauty as you as you termed it.
Speaker 1: And then we get a nice guitar solo that leads
Speaker 1: into a pretty sass, pretty satisfying conclusion here.
Speaker 2: That's pretty satisfying, and it goes so well with the
Speaker 2: animation done by Webster.
Speaker 1: Yes that as Michael escapes with this is animated, Michael
Speaker 1: escapes and.
Speaker 2: He transforms into a metallic version.
Speaker 1: Of l Yeah, which reminded me of the cover of
Speaker 1: Is It History?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's like the Greatest Hits Packatch or something.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the one. And then he and Bubbles go
Speaker 1: into a bathtub in space, yeah, where they live happily
Speaker 1: ever after.
Speaker 2: Can we just discuss for a moment how mind blowing
Speaker 2: it is for someone to keep a chimpanzee as a pit.
Speaker 1: It is. I could not conceive of doing that in
Speaker 1: any effective way myself.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean speaking about primates, you know, there is something,
Speaker 2: there's something very peculiar about chimpanzees, and well, what sets
Speaker 2: them apart from other primates is that, for instance, you
Speaker 2: have orangutans, which are incredibly strong, but incredibly gentle. There
Speaker 2: are no recordive attacks in history of an orangul tant
Speaker 2: killing a person. They are simply not violent by nature.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you were to they are very solitary,
Speaker 2: but if you were to run into one in the wild,
Speaker 2: they will most likely move away from you as quickly
Speaker 2: as possible. And gorillas can be more defensive. They are
Speaker 2: more territorial, but they would rather just to scare you
Speaker 2: off or mock charge you before actually killing you, whereas
Speaker 2: chimpanzees will kill you no matter what, and they are vicious.
Speaker 2: A gorilla might just punch you until you lay on
Speaker 2: the ground with all your bones broken, but then he'll
Speaker 2: go away. Yeah, but a chimpanzee will not stop. A
Speaker 2: chimpanzee will turn your face off, he will rip your
Speaker 2: arms off, and he will rip your genitals off as well.
Speaker 2: It's the only primate that will do that. They will
Speaker 2: not stop until they have completely disfigured you, because that's
Speaker 2: how vicious they are, and there's nothing you can do
Speaker 2: about it. I mean, if you ran into a chimpanzee
Speaker 2: in the wild, that are strategies which might work with
Speaker 2: other primates in order to assert that you're not a threat.
Speaker 2: Nothing will work with a chimpanzee. They will chase you
Speaker 2: down and they will kill you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So a gorilla will send a message like a mobster
Speaker 1: by breaking your bones, but the chimp just wants you dead.
Speaker 2: The chimp wants to rip your genitals off.
Speaker 1: Next time, might take a bunch of kids to the zoo.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be my warning to them.
Speaker 2: Remember kids, now, now, after hearing that information, just picture
Speaker 2: a chimpanzee dressed up with with human clothes, yes, dancing
Speaker 2: around a mansion. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Speaking of primates, Frankie, that beautiful song about primates can
Speaker 1: only mean one thing. It's time for Primemates takes. If
Speaker 1: you want your takes about the song of for discussion
Speaker 1: read right here on the podcast. All you have to
Speaker 1: do is go to patreon dot com Forward slash Primus
Speaker 1: Tracks And you know what I think, Frankie is going
Speaker 1: to have more chimp facts for us on the Patreon.
Speaker 1: So if you really like learning about animals, Patreon dot com,
Speaker 1: Ford slash Primus tracks. Our Primates takes this week about
Speaker 1: bubbles Burst come from first Zach Heard, who says there's
Speaker 1: only two things guaranteed in this life, childhood's end and
Speaker 1: bubbles Burst. This is one of my favorites on the record.
Speaker 1: The tones of the instruments, the lyrics and the story
Speaker 1: they tell, and especially the nostalgia fills me with even
Speaker 1: though it's about someone else's experiences. Absolutely beautiful track. Our
Speaker 1: resident Fish expert Jordan Kahn says I find this track
Speaker 1: very Pink Floydian. The line Childhood's End was an early
Speaker 1: seventies single, and Sean's outro solo is quite Gilmour esque.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Childhood's End was released by Pink Floyd in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy two.
Speaker 1: Oh very good, So it reminds him of that one.
Speaker 1: Eric in Australia says, somnolent and ethereal oh Man. Eric's
Speaker 1: been handling the thesaurus at his library. Eric also says
Speaker 1: I love the soaring guitar solo. Finally, our landed Gentry
Speaker 1: Edwin Allen Richards Fourth says I love this song and
Speaker 1: as a huge fan of the Mighty Boosh, it was
Speaker 1: so cool seeing two of my favorite worlds collide in
Speaker 1: the music video.
Speaker 2: I love that song.
Speaker 1: Dot Com, Frankie, are you a Mighty Bush fan?
Speaker 2: I've seen I've seen the bit and yeah, I do
Speaker 2: enjoy it. I've seen I've seen noil In in other
Speaker 2: films and they were hilarious.
Speaker 1: Yes, I first saw him in the It Crowd uh,
Speaker 1: and then many years later finally watched Mighty Boosh and
Speaker 1: I love just how surreal and bizarre it is. Both
Speaker 1: he and his brother Mike are great in it. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you Primates, by the way for your take.
Speaker 2: Brooks did not take our jobs today.
Speaker 1: No, we still are gainfully employed. Brooks spared us.
Speaker 2: We still still have a roof for now.
Speaker 1: I'm up on it again, that's for sure. Hello Primates, Josh. Here,
Speaker 1: after we recorded this episode, I came upon a cover
Speaker 1: of bubbles Burst posted just a couple of weeks prior
Speaker 1: by a band called The screw Up, who do a
Speaker 1: lovely rendition of the track. We hadn't featured any full
Speaker 1: band CLD covers because they largely don't exist, but this
Speaker 1: one's well done.
Speaker 7: Enjoy live cutsman a jam vehicle, Live cuts for the
Speaker 7: Gem vehicle, Live cutsman, what's going on here?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what's going on here. It's live cuts
Speaker 1: for bubbles Burst. We have two today. We are heading
Speaker 1: right back out to Columbus, Ohio and Boston. Massachusetts two
Speaker 1: of Frankie's favorites, and of course they are pro shot
Speaker 1: and they are available on YouTube, so why wouldn't we
Speaker 1: reference them? First Up, Columba Rush.
Speaker 2: Is when they performed The Bubbles live. Similarly to the
Speaker 2: other tracks, it had an extended intro where sewn with
Speaker 2: Noodle away on the guitar.
Speaker 1: Let's hear him Noodle a bit. For those of you
Speaker 1: watching along on.
Speaker 6: YouTube, lessons left the stage.
Speaker 1: See this sounds a lot like the demo version. It's
Speaker 1: not exactly the.
Speaker 6: Same, but I love the.
Speaker 1: Atmosphere of this. That's great.
Speaker 8: Let's hear more of this one, Toyshu.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before. With these live performances, Paulo
Speaker 1: brings such confidence and smoothness. I think, yeah, he's he's
Speaker 1: elevating those studio drums and we pointed that out before. Uh,
Speaker 1: with this record, it really comes alive with Polo and
Speaker 1: the kid. There's there's some really nice drive in his plane.
Speaker 1: There's one more thing he wanted us to hear. It
Speaker 1: was the outro. Now is this with some of these
Speaker 1: Monoliths tracks, Frankie, do you find yourself listening to the
Speaker 1: life cuts more than the studio album.
Speaker 2: With the first record, Yes, with South of Reality. I mean,
Speaker 2: for me, the studio cuts are just perfect. But with Monolith, yes,
Speaker 2: I think I do gravitate towards the conference more.
Speaker 1: I suspected as much. Let's move to Boston House of
Speaker 1: Blues for some of that guitar solo goodness with Bubbles
Speaker 1: in Boston.
Speaker 2: Fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Paulo is smooth back there, and Sean solo really shines.
Speaker 1: Uh live too, It all it all comes together live
Speaker 1: with these Monolith tracks. I think we're finding except for
Speaker 1: no one to we're in space because they never played
Speaker 1: it live. It is my understanding.
Speaker 2: Uh no, it was just played over the PA at
Speaker 2: the beginning of each show. There was a show introduction,
Speaker 2: but I never perform his life.
Speaker 1: Oh well, next week's episode is gonna be real fun. Then, well,
Speaker 1: Bubble's Burst really took us on a journey, Frankie, We've
Speaker 1: been all over the place with it.
Speaker 2: So such an interesting subject.
Speaker 1: It is an interesting subject. It's a it's a nice
Speaker 1: tune and it's you know, it's great to hear, you know,
Speaker 1: something from from Sean that's a little more personal, you know,
Speaker 1: sharing these things because we we get a lot of
Speaker 1: stories from Les Claypool as a lyricist from his life,
Speaker 1: so you you get a it's parasocial, but you still
Speaker 1: get a connection to the artist in a way that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't normally. So this, in a way, this humanizes
Speaker 1: Sean Lennon, if that makes sense, not that he was
Speaker 1: inhuman before, but it allows us to get him, to
Speaker 1: get to know him the person and not the name.
Speaker 2: And I think this is just a glimpse, is just
Speaker 2: a very very small fraction of what Michael's entire of
Speaker 2: life and persona was. So I guess the lesson here
Speaker 2: is that no matter how many decades pass, people will
Speaker 2: never not talk about Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1: Evergreen topic right there, you bet well, bubbles burst in
Speaker 1: the time of chimpanzees. I was a monkey and you've
Speaker 1: been tracked. Next week, Frankie, we answer the age old question, is.
Speaker 2: There their bumper space?
Speaker 1: I wish we had said that more in Unison, but
Speaker 1: that was pretty good. We're gonna find out they're making
Speaker 1: a bold claim. I think that's even more controversial than
Speaker 1: this week's topic. So strap in everybody primates, primates, primates, patrons,
Speaker 1: prime matrons, people of Earth, people of Phobos chimps all
Speaker 1: around the world, especially in Texas facilities. Thank you for
Speaker 1: listening and I'll talk to you next time later days.
Speaker 2: Willa mace H