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True Murder with 58 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:48.759 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. In a park 59 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:53.199 in Bacop, Lancashire, England, on the night of August eleventh, 60 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.199 two thousand and seven, twenty one year old Sophie Lancaster 61 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.800 and boyfriend Robert Maltby were duly attacked my five teenage 62 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:06.919 boys aged fourteen to seventeen. They were attacked simply because 63 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:11.080 they dressed differently. Sophie had been attacked after trying to 64 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:14.599 protect her boyfriend and was pulled from life support thirteen 65 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:20.319 days later. Robert survived with numerous serious injuries. The first 66 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:24.479 journalist on the scene, Catherine Smight, provides a dramatic perspective 67 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:26.199 to the case as a mother and a member of 68 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:30.360 the media who became inextricably involved in the story forever 69 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:34.479 The book chronicles the attack, the town where it happened, 70 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:39.159 the court case, the national and international media interest, and 71 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:44.159 the launch of the Sophie Lancaster Foundation. It also uncovers 72 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.919 some anomalies. The police admitted initially attending the wrong park. 73 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:51.120 The Ambulance Service has yet to explain while it took 74 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:55.319 fourteen minutes for first paramedics to reach the scene just 75 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.840 a mile away. The book that we're featuring today is 76 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.840 The Sophie Rancaster's Story with my special guest journalist and 77 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:06.439 author Katherine Smythe. Welcome to the program and thank you 78 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:07.520 for agreeing to this interview. 79 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:12.960 Catherine Smythe, thank you very much for inviting me. Thank 80 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:18.519 you very much. Incredible story. Let's get to an introduction. 81 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:24.199 We're talking about Bacup, Lancashire, England. So tell us for 82 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:31.560 our audience where exactly this is and describe Bacup and 83 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:35.600 then we can talk about your background that brought you 84 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:41.240 to this case and like I said, inexpectably involved with 85 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:42.079 this case forever. 86 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:47.600 Bacup is quite a small town. It's on the outskirts 87 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.040 of Rossendale. Rossendale is made up of five small towns. 88 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.800 They were all clubbed together to when they decided to 89 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:59.560 have an MP for the area, and although the individual 90 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:03.759 town at one stage had their own municipal authorities, they 91 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.959 were all combined to form Rossendale Council and bake Up 92 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.680 is part of that. That is in turn is part 93 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.720 of the Lancashire, which is a much larger county. Stretching 94 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.879 quite a distance from Rossendale is the furthest East and 95 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.120 then right the way through to Blackpool. So you can 96 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:25.639 imagine quite different area and quite different areas, quite different 97 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:30.319 sizes of areas. We've got cities, towns, but Rossendale of 98 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:32.959 all of the whole of Lancashire is probably one of 99 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:34.000 the smallest areas. 100 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:41.839 Now, tell us a little bit about your background as 101 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:46.480 a journalist and how you came to be involved with 102 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:47.040 this case. 103 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:55.040 Well, about my first job as a reporter in the 104 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:59.199 Rossendale Valley, covering and at that time it's called Ramsbottom. 105 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.519 That was in nine teen eighty eight. From being a 106 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:07.319 reporter in Rossendale, worked for an inning newspaper and after 107 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:12.240 having children, went back to working for my ominal newspaper, 108 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:19.560 Rossendale Free Press. The time at the time Sophie and 109 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:24.040 Rob were attacked. At that time, I was not actually 110 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.759 on call. But because I lived in the same area 111 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.399 where this attack took place, somebody contacted me on the 112 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.319 Sunday evening to tell me that something had happened in 113 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:39.439 the park. So as a result, because I'm a journalist 114 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.040 and obviously I'm nosy, I chose to walk to go 115 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:46.000 out of the park that night. I took my young 116 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.399 son and we went in the car. As far as 117 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.439 he was concerned, we were just going to play. But 118 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:53.519 really I was going to try and see if there 119 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:56.399 was anything that I could find. So that's the reason 120 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:58.920 why they've said I was the first journalist on the scene, 121 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.800 because I knew about it before the police had made 122 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:03.720 any kind of releases to the media. 123 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.639 Now, before we get to August eleventh, two thousand and seven, 124 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:15.959 in this stubbly stubbily park, let's talk about sort of 125 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:20.639 the incidents of this. What kind of places bakeup in 126 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:23.680 terms of violence, in terms of gangs, in terms of 127 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:29.519 teenagers running amock, what's its incidents, What's what's it really 128 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:31.240 like there previous. 129 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.600 To this, Prior to this, Bakeup always had a little 130 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:38.639 bit of a dubious reputation. Don't get me wrong, there 131 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.120 are some incredibly good people in Bakup, just as there 132 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:44.639 are in every town. But unfortunately there always seems to 133 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:51.879 have been a prompt to coting trouble, making life difficult 134 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:58.560 for bess owners, showing people in the community, and it's 135 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:02.040 very sad. That is obviously how a lot of people 136 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:07.639 have interpreted the town. Unfortunately, there was also, probably more 137 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:11.800 so then than now, a great degree of intolerance regarding 138 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:17.879 people of different colors. Black people in the town were 139 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:21.439 few and far between. It was seen as a place 140 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:24.279 where it was almost like whites only at one stage. 141 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.959 Things have evolved a little bit that still to this day, 142 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.240 compared to the other towns in Rossendale, there is a 143 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:36.480 very very small percentage of minority ethnic origin people. 144 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:42.559 Well, you read in your book that other communities in 145 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:45.840 the area are about ninety percent white, which is I 146 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:51.080 thought interesting and surprising. But yet Bacup is even more 147 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.360 so white. Didn't you say ninety eight percent in the book. 148 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:58.000 That's any data that I could obtain at the time, Yes, 149 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:06.519 it would be slight. It's distillericity of people. Yes, even 150 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:12.120 they're obviously in Rottenstall and Haslingden we've got mosques, But 151 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.159 in Bakeup it's a totally different generic. 152 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:21.720 Now, you had just spoken about getting the call from 153 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:23.759 your friend that lives in the area, and you went 154 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.159 as a reporter and as a so tell us more 155 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:32.519 about the call and what you did learn as a 156 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:34.320 scene of the When. 157 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:37.919 You did arrive, the call quite literally just said that 158 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.159 there's been something going on in the park. My friend 159 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:46.720 described to me seeing men in white overalls. Now, I'd 160 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:48.799 been a journalist for far too many years not to 161 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.200 know that that was scenes of crime officers, and that 162 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.879 meant it was incredibly serious. When I got to the park, 163 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:59.519 my initial walk through because obviously I was, as I said, 164 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:01.600 being no and decided to go and have a look. 165 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:05.000 My initial walk through the park took me straight past 166 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.840 the skate park, but I noticed nothing. There was no tape, 167 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.559 There was nothing at that scene to have indicated that 168 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:17.480 that was where anything had happened. I proceeded to go 169 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.440 through the rest of the park. It's an absolutely beautiful 170 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.919 park Stubbury. You have a series of steps that go 171 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:28.720 down towards a beautiful little to fall that runs along 172 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:32.000 the bottom. It's called Fairydale. It is a lovely area. 173 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:37.639 But there was no indication that anything had gone that 174 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:44.440 BIAT that I had been at other stages at other times. 175 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:47.720 It was a lot quier than when I'd seen Usually 176 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.840 there would be quite a few children on the skate park. 177 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:55.320 I don't seeing anyone on the skate park that night, 178 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.519 and as I walked through the rest of the park again, 179 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:04.600 the whole air did seem quietly quitted. There was no 180 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:08.360 line of any police involvement, no no sign of any 181 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:12.879 even police tape that had been written down. There was 182 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:16.440 just nothing. So at that stage I didn't know where 183 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:19.679 the incident had taken place other than somewhere in the park. 184 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.559 Now, you were a news editor of the Rosendale Free 185 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:30.120 Press at that time, but yet the next morning, August thirteenth, 186 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.240 you found out information via the BBC. Tell us what 187 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:36.480 you heard that morning. 188 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.799 When I woke up that morning, I always you would 189 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.600 wake up to the radio, so BBC Radio Lancashire was playing, 190 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.919 and the first item on the news was that there'd 191 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:49.480 been an attack in the park and two people had 192 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:54.399 been left seriously injured. At that stage they were only 193 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:58.600 describing it as a mob attack. And the information we 194 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.600 got through was exactly the same. At the office, it was. 195 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:03.720 It was a message that had been left on the 196 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:08.559 police news Line, which is an accessible number for journalists 197 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:12.120 so that they can obtain news about what's going on 198 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:18.399 rather than having to keep hassling who super communications. There 199 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:24.919 was very lacking in disction than to say the name 200 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.799 of the park, which obviously I'd conferred what I knew 201 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:30.759 from the day before, and the fact that these two 202 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.159 people at that stage it just said a twenty one 203 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.600 year old and a twenty year old were in hospital. 204 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:41.080 It was only about fifteen minutes after I'd got into 205 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:48.480 the office. Often and collig that work for By sheer 206 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:54.519 coincidence was Robert's uncle rang me to tell me exactly 207 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.960 who was involved in this incident, what had happened, and 208 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.559 obviously sent some photographs as well to the newspaper. When 209 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:10.200 we got the pictures through, I immediately recognized Sophie, Which 210 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:15.440 is a bit of a scary situation. List you can 211 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.519 tend to be remote from an awful lot of things 212 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.000 that go on, even though they're horrific, even though they 213 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:25.840 hurt you. You don't know, and you can't associate the 214 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:29.440 person with the person because there's somebody whom you don't know. 215 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.039 But when you see a photograph and you go, oh 216 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.600 my god, I remember seeing her, I remember seeing bakeup. 217 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.720 She was walking and when I worked out where I'd 218 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.039 actually seen her, she was very obviously walking back to 219 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:47.720 her house on King Street, and that made it all 220 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.679 the more shocking because I can remember I had my 221 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:58.799 children with me and isn't beautiful for Sophie she was 222 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:04.600 quite a vision with beautiful, beautiful, long black clothes, dreadlocked hair. 223 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:08.480 It had the green braid tied in it at the time, 224 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:12.799 and you really did turn your head stop and say wow. 225 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:19.559 So to realize it was that that night tact was 226 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:20.519 really quite shocking. 227 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:28.919 Now from there, from having access to Robert Maltby's uncle, 228 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:36.919 Nigel Lancashire, what other information did you have and that 229 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.519 other people didn't have In terms of their relationship you 230 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.200 talk about they were living together. So tell us what 231 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.559 you did learn from the uncle about in terms of 232 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:46.360 their relationship. 233 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.440 Well, he explained a lot about Sophie and rob about 234 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:53.320 the fact that they had adopted a sort of Gothic 235 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.840 type lifestyle. That was the way the people that they were. 236 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:02.639 They were quite independent, quite different, happy and obviously very 237 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:07.120 much in love. At that time. Sophie wasn't working, she 238 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.519 was in between she was working out what she wanted 239 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.919 to do, and she was looking to go back to college. 240 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:17.639 Rob was working at a local firm so that they 241 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.360 could afford to pay for the flats that they shared together. 242 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:25.200 They sounded like a couple who'd really found each other. 243 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:29.919 They'd found the right person to be and blocked and 244 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.360 they had a fantastic relationship, and both Nigel and his 245 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:40.039 wife good friends with both Sophie and Rob. It seemed 246 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.840 such a tragic thing to happen to someone who was 247 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:45.480 obviously in such a good place at the. 248 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.200 Time, not just for the record, not that it matters 249 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.960 at all, but for people to just sort of wrap 250 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.759 their head around this. Again. You talk about how beautiful 251 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.200 Sophie was, and sure the photos clearly demonstrate that in 252 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.840 the book as well. And then she had these dreadlocks 253 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:06.440 again would look great, and then had this ribbon coiled 254 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:10.120 through there, and she had some piercings. But tell us 255 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.240 what Robert Maltby, just for the record, look like as well, 256 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.159 you know, because this will be important when we talk 257 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:21.000 about people being attacked for looking differently. So how much 258 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.240 differently did you Robbly look? 259 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:28.480 Robert again was call he had dark hair that was 260 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:33.000 quite I think his hair varied. Sometimes it was dyed red, 261 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.440 sometimes it was dark. And again his head. His hair 262 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:41.120 was quite long in comparison to maybe most people, and 263 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:46.159 he had retainers in his ears, which obviously form a 264 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.600 hole between the ear lobe and the main part of 265 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:54.120 the ear. And they both looked quite different. They both 266 00:16:54.360 --> 00:17:02.039 had obviously they were following a certain goffy style, quite 267 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:06.160 different to what you would see within the Bay Area. 268 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:17.119 The relationship they had, let's talk about again. I asked 269 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.400 this question, but it's sort of in my mind. I 270 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:23.119 think the audience would ask too, what was the prevalence 271 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:31.079 of occurrences of gang activity or major assault in this 272 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:32.160 double park. 273 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:39.559 Prior to this incident, Stubbley Park had become a bit 274 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.039 of a teenage haunt on an evening on the rare 275 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:46.960 occasion that I've been there. Bear in mind, I'm a 276 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.839 bit considerably older than the teenagers who would hang out. 277 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.640 I would see a lot of older kids. There was 278 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:58.559 a gang culture in Bakeup. They'd got this bake Up 279 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.599 Terror Group, which was a bit bizarre, but they would 280 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:09.880 slogan the town center with BTG and they would almost 281 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.640 it seemed like there were sort of fights being picked 282 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:18.640 between different areas as well. Although Rossendale is all one 283 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:24.240 area regarding local council and MP, it is very split 284 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:30.359 and people from Whitworths that actually had on with some 285 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.359 areas would sort of be pitting against each other. There 286 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.599 had been at that time a youth project which was 287 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:42.720 started within the Pennine Road area which was originally a 288 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:51.599 council estate, and that had been to belonging people who 289 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.640 were living as an offshoot of that youth project where 290 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.240 they made a video and one of the people involved 291 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:03.880 in the Sophie k was on that video. It did 292 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.079 seem a little bit like it was a video for 293 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.720 the gang rather than necessarily a video for the project, 294 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:12.880 but it was a way the people that it was. 295 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:20.480 It was a way of king the missions, not if 296 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:26.440 you'd go down and brandishing wooden sticks in what could 297 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.759 only really describe as a bit of a menacing manner. 298 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.359 Yeah, it's very interesting when you talk about the the 299 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.880 rap video with the woodsticks and the menacing manner, and 300 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.440 again this is supposed to be a community project video. 301 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.799 It's very kind of well, to say the least, odd 302 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.880 talk Let's let's talk a little bit about Sophie's mother, Sylvia, 303 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.599 and and sort of the relationship that she had in 304 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:59.359 her family despite this alternative lifestyle, how accepted was it 305 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:00.480 from her family? 306 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:10.119 Sylvia accepted Sophie's decisions with ease. She was quite happy 307 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.160 with her daughter's choices. It was it was entirely up 308 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:15.799 to her daughter what she decided to do at six 309 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:21.359 years old. That she wasn't beaten and became a Verian. 310 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.920 So you kind of got an idea that this was 311 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.480 somebody who knew their own mind from a very young age. 312 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:31.240 She then took to having her hair dyed black and 313 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:37.519 having wearing long black trench coats, dark coats, and obviously 314 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.960 this gothic style was already coming out to a young age. 315 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.559 But for Sylvia, she said, always said that she was 316 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.240 really happy that her daughter content within herself. I think 317 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.279 that's something that you find with your children that so 318 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.240 long as they are and they are happy, no matter 319 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:56.119 what they choose to be or how they choose to be, 320 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:57.559 that's what matters most of all. 321 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.359 You know, let's talk about the night in question. What 322 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:08.519 time are we talking about? What were Robert and Sophie 323 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:12.519 doing and before they got to the park, tell us 324 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:17.720 the circumstances surrounding them, what their decisions That evening tell 325 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:18.440 us about. 326 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:21.920 That, Well, Robert and Sophie have been out for the night. 327 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.640 They've been out at a friend's house. Nothing unusual about that. Yes, 328 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:33.240 a whole consumed a massive amount. Walked from this friend's house, 329 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:37.200 which was on the outskirts of Bakeup, towards their own home, 330 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.640 which was in the right start back center in the 331 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.759 town center. They started walking for some reason I did. 332 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:49.839 This was probably after midnight. For some reason, they decided 333 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.720 that they were cigarettes. Obviously they must have run out, 334 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.559 so they went to what would have been the only 335 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.880 place open at the time, which is like a service 336 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:06.079 station attached to a petrol and they went there to 337 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:08.400 get the cigarettes. And that's where they met the first 338 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:14.319 group of people. They were young youth. We don't know 339 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.839 specifically how old they were, but they were chatting to 340 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:20.279 Sophie and Rob and they were quite fascinated with their 341 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:24.559 appearance because they did look different to what would be 342 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.279 considered the norm, and so obviously they drew quite a 343 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:32.960 lot of attention. Sophie and Rob will sharing those cigarettes 344 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.000 out between these young people, and by all accounts, they 345 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:40.440 seemed quite friendly at that time. One person who was 346 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.440 within that group said something on the grounds of that 347 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:49.680 they didn't feel happy or didn't feel confident being around 348 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.440 Sophie and Rob, that that was because their appearance was 349 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:58.400 so different. They were uncertain. I don't know, but they 350 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:04.519 didn't feel to be there, a precursor to maybe what 351 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:10.319 went on once they then moved on from the petrol 352 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:14.400 station to an area near the park where and more 353 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:21.920 youth were congregating, and then for some reason which really understood, 354 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.359 they moved and walked into the park with some of 355 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.480 those young people. Once they got to the skate park, 356 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.680 they were being photographed. There was a by all accounts 357 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:37.519 to some of the young people in the park were 358 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:42.440 photographing Sophie because obviously she looked so much so different 359 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.960 to them. Also as the gang of five who were 360 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:55.559 subsequently charged with this murder and assault. There was a 361 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:58.200 number of other young people in that park at the time, 362 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:03.680 and they flocked around Sophie and Rob because they found 363 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:09.000 fasting interesting. Who wouldn't They looked completely different to the 364 00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:13.400 other young people. Sophie, especially with all the piercings, which 365 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:18.000 would probably have been quite you are definitely unusual to 366 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.720 the young people that were there. That's when it all changed. 367 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.119 That's when the assault started. 368 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:31.079 Now, how was the assault initiated? I mean, again, you 369 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:35.839 just paint this picture of sort of no provocation whatsoever. 370 00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:39.960 These people are twenty one years old and there's people 371 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:44.960 ranging from fourteen maybe to seventeen eighteen years old. But 372 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:50.599 we're talking about like one am so yeah and what 373 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:54.000 and like you say, maybe some alcohol, maybe maybe somebody 374 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.839 was smoking marijuana. I don't know if there was any 375 00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:59.599 evidence of that, but it seems like an innocent situation. 376 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.599 Doesn't seem to be any major history of any gang swarming, 377 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.880 of anybody attacking people. So from the information that you have, 378 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:15.960 what initiated this assault on Robert Maltby, Well. 379 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:22.359 There's two. Somebody said something on the lines of he's 380 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.559 a Marshall, let's bang in. That expression was definitely used 381 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:31.079 leading to the hate crime, leading to the attack because 382 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.279 they're different. There was also, I believe, because that the 383 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:38.319 people that we were talking about who started this attack, 384 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.640 I believe it's possible that there was a degree of jealousy. 385 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.240 Sophie and Rob had walked into their territory. This was 386 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.559 their patch, this skate park at that time of night 387 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.640 was their area, and suddenly somebody had walked in who 388 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.160 was more interesting than them. And I know it sounds 389 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:57.640 basic to say jealousy, but I believe there was a 390 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.920 degree of jealousy as well. The actual expressions used were 391 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.599 the fact that there was a they were mocked street 392 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:12.319 named for a goth bang them And so it went on. 393 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:19.039 And so the attack started. Initially on Rob. Rob was punched, kicked, 394 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:22.759 hits stamped to the ground. Once he was on the ground, 395 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:30.079 they then king and head body. It was absolutely horrendous assault. 396 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:37.880 Then once Rob was lying on the ground from eyewitness statements, 397 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:43.039 Sophie then cradled head in her lap. I'm guessing she 398 00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:46.599 was maybe shouting at them more telling, you know. And 399 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.359 while she was on the ground, they then set about 400 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:55.359 attacking her. Bear in mind, this is a very petite, tiny, 401 00:26:55.960 --> 00:27:01.680