Speaker 1: It's with d Y.
Speaker 2: I'm all right, welcome back everyone, and we're going from
Speaker 2: an hour that was really a fun hour with Joeke
Speaker 2: of State Leone to a much more serious issue, much
Speaker 2: more serious topic. In the Boston Herald today there was
Speaker 2: an article by Rick Sobe which talks about an effort
Speaker 2: that is now underway by an organization called Students and
Speaker 2: we can probably probably put question quotation markets around students,
Speaker 2: but students for Justice in Palatine Palestine. This is at
Speaker 2: a moment as we're approaching the anniversary of the horrific
Speaker 2: October massacre of last October seventh, and this so called
Speaker 2: week of rage, that's what they're calling it, a week
Speaker 2: of age across college campuses, according to Rick Sobey, is
Speaker 2: sickening those in the Jewish community. You can understand why
Speaker 2: this week of rage will also bracket some of the
Speaker 2: holy days of the Jewish calendar, which culminates next week
Speaker 2: with Yam Kapor and has already started with Rashashana. If
Speaker 2: you want to go to the website National Students for
Speaker 2: Justice in Palestine, you'll see what I'm talking about and
Speaker 2: some of the language that they use. I just want
Speaker 2: to just touch on this quickly, and then I want
Speaker 2: to have as many of you respond to this as possible.
Speaker 2: They write, for over eleven months now, the Zionist entity
Speaker 2: that's what they call Israel, with the backing of the
Speaker 2: US and our universities, has committed a horrific assault in
Speaker 2: the nearly two million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip.
Speaker 2: Since the start of this genocide, the people of Gaza
Speaker 2: have continued to stand steadfast, resilient, and unwavering in the
Speaker 2: face of these crimes. It is for them that we rise.
Speaker 2: This is the statement in part from the National Students
Speaker 2: for Justice and Palestine. Forgetting, of course, that Israel never
Speaker 2: started this problem. This problem was started on October seventh
Speaker 2: by himas joining us now is a longtime friend of
Speaker 2: this program, a journalist, a lawyer in Boston with a
Speaker 2: great law firm, Minskin Levin, a First Amendment specialist. Jeff Robbins, Jeff,
Speaker 2: welcome back tonight's side. I'm happy you're here. I'm not
Speaker 2: happy under the circumstances on which you're joining us tonight.
Speaker 2: How are you this evening?
Speaker 3: Dan? Thank you so much for having me in. More fundamentally,
Speaker 3: thank you for the attention that you insist, persist in
Speaker 3: focusing on this ananity, this moral depravity that we have
Speaker 3: of people celebrating, celebrating the slaughter of innocence and actually
Speaker 3: mocking the victims, victims who are victims of kidnapping, rape,
Speaker 3: being blown apart, being executed at gunpoint, and all out
Speaker 3: of a genocidal urged by a genocidal organization to slaughter Jews,
Speaker 3: and supported amazingly by students who regard themselves as progressives
Speaker 3: and as humanitarians. It beggars the imagination well.
Speaker 2: Their slogan from the River to the Sea, Palestine will
Speaker 2: be free, clearly, as Rick Sobey writes today, and as
Speaker 2: the Anti Defamation League says in his column, is an
Speaker 2: anti Semitic slogan. It calls for a Palestinian state, quoting
Speaker 2: now from Rick Sobey's piece of the and the Boston Herald,
Speaker 2: extending from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, territory
Speaker 2: that includes the state of Israel, which would mean the
Speaker 2: dismantling of the Jewish state. How can college students in
Speaker 2: America be so naive to allow themselves to be really
Speaker 2: pawns by this group that has, you know, their instincts,
Speaker 2: If not their actions, certainly their instincts are terrorist. How
Speaker 2: can so many college students allow themselves to be to
Speaker 2: be used in this way as unwitting accomplices. I mean,
Speaker 2: did they teach anything in high school and college today
Speaker 2: about world history, about what happened you know, seventy or
Speaker 2: eighty years ago, you know, eighty eighty five years ago
Speaker 2: in Europe? What does none of this ring bells in
Speaker 2: their heads. I just don't understand it. I mean, I
Speaker 2: can understand where you can have people who are just
Speaker 2: clearly anti Semitic, the the offspring of the far right
Speaker 2: from a couple of generations ago, who have now fantastasized
Speaker 2: over on the far left. But you see these these
Speaker 2: crowds out in the street, Jeff, and it's like, what's
Speaker 2: going to happen on college campus? Is in the next
Speaker 2: few weeks? Next week? Actually?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, as you have before, you've posed the question,
Speaker 3: the profound question, which is, how can people be sucked
Speaker 3: up or gulled or basically dumbed down into embracing something
Speaker 3: which is just antithetical to human decency. You've got a
Speaker 3: group that has has its purpose annihilating Jews, that invades
Speaker 3: another country, annihilates twelve hundred is only stopped eventually. They
Speaker 3: tended to annihilate even more than twelve hundred. Rapes, People
Speaker 3: blows them to pieces, kidnaps them, babies, toddlers, holds them
Speaker 3: in tunnels. And you have to beg and plead to
Speaker 3: have people who hold themselves out as humanitarians and as
Speaker 3: progressives say, you know, that's just unequivocally outrageous and it
Speaker 3: has to be stopped. And it's not enough to simply
Speaker 3: say always real has the right to do itself, as
Speaker 3: though you know that in and of itself means anything,
Speaker 3: but that Israel has an obligation to prevent this from
Speaker 3: happening again. And to look one step further, some of
Speaker 3: these students, who you might imagine have the wit to
Speaker 3: understand this, that what has happened here is not quote
Speaker 3: unquote only to slaughter Jews, but to consign tens of
Speaker 3: thousands of Palestinians to death, which is exactly what Hamas
Speaker 3: sought to bring about and has brought about. It does
Speaker 3: not take Einstein to understand how morally depraved this conduct was,
Speaker 3: and how morally depraved it is to support it, or
Speaker 3: embrace it, or whitewash it. And yet, as you point out,
Speaker 3: that's the dilemma we have.
Speaker 2: My guest is Jeff Robbins. Jeff, as I said, is
Speaker 2: a journalist, a syndicated columnist. Is columns up here once
Speaker 2: a week in the Boston Herald, amongst other newspapers. He's
Speaker 2: a lawyer, first amendment scholar with Minskin Levin, a representative
Speaker 2: of the Clinton administration at the United Nations on the
Speaker 2: whole questions a question of human rights. We see what's
Speaker 2: going on. We saw what happened yesterday, one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty two hundred ballistic missiles fired in on Israel. If
Speaker 2: Israel did not have the defense system that they have
Speaker 2: and that they have built, if it were on fire
Speaker 2: two hundred ballistic missiles in on any other country in
Speaker 2: the Middle East, that country would have been obliterated. Thank
Speaker 2: God that Israel has the Iron Dome and some other
Speaker 2: ways in which most of these missiles were knocked down.
Speaker 2: But I just if there are people out there who
Speaker 2: are empathetic, I'd love to hear from you. And if
Speaker 2: there are people out there who are just sick of it,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to go through what we went
Speaker 2: through last fall. It cost university presidents their jobs because
Speaker 2: they had no backbone. They didn't even know how to
Speaker 2: respond to questions that were asked of them in Congress.
Speaker 2: These were college presidents. I hope, and I really mean that,
Speaker 2: I hope that there is order maintained so that students
Speaker 2: can go to classes. Jeff, you're a First Amendment scholar.
Speaker 2: You represent people on First Amendment cases. These students, they
Speaker 2: have the right to protest, but the protest always gets
Speaker 2: to the point where a building is occupied, where Jewish
Speaker 2: students are harassed, where Jewish students are prevented from actually
Speaker 2: entering onto the campus that they have paid their tuition to.
Speaker 2: Why is it that these college administrators don't understand there
Speaker 2: is a difference between speech and action.
Speaker 3: Well, for one thing, let's let's call a spade a spade.
Speaker 3: There is a certain amount of gutlessness and fear that
Speaker 3: pervades university administration buildings. They're afraid of students, they're afraid
Speaker 3: of faculty.
Speaker 2: You have, for.
Speaker 3: Example, the president of Brandeis Ron Leebwoods, who resigned a
Speaker 3: couple of days ago after the faculty voted by a
Speaker 3: narrow margin, by a ten vote margin, a no confidence resolution.
Speaker 3: Why the no confidence resolution, apparently because he had expelled
Speaker 3: Students for Justice in Palestine, when they had disrupted campus,
Speaker 3: when they had vandalized the campus, when they had intimidated kids.
Speaker 3: So you have faculty being just as witless in some
Speaker 3: cases as the students are not all faculty but a
Speaker 3: group of faculty, And so you have university halls and
Speaker 3: college administrations petrified of blowback if they have the stones.
Speaker 3: I think that's the first Amendment phrase, to stand up
Speaker 3: and say no, you can't do that, you can't do that.
Speaker 3: So there's been a wave of intimidation on campuses on
Speaker 3: many levels. Jewish kids are intimidated. Non Jewish kids who
Speaker 3: are who have an inkling that they want to stand
Speaker 3: up for their Jewish friends and against this crap are intimidated.
Speaker 3: You've got intimidation and university halls and it is purposeful
Speaker 3: and frankly, Students for Justice in Palestine, as you point out,
Speaker 3: you can put quotes around students, quotes around justice and
Speaker 3: quotes around Palestine is an organization that has gotten very,
Speaker 3: very effective at intimidating people. And that's this is where
Speaker 3: the rubber meets the road. Whether or not people students
Speaker 3: faculty Jewish non Jewish administrations, whether they stand up to
Speaker 3: the intimidation or not. We're going to see whether that
Speaker 3: happens this school year.
Speaker 2: When we get back, I want to talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about the amount of financial support that many of
Speaker 2: these universities are receiving from Middle Eastern countries and whether
Speaker 2: or not that plays a role in their lack of
Speaker 2: spine or their seeming lack of spine. My name is
Speaker 2: Dan Ray. This is Nightside. I'd love to have you
Speaker 2: join the conversation, whatever your point of view on this is,
Speaker 2: because we need to talk about this, and that's why
Speaker 2: we're doing this tonight. Tonight is Thursday. The anniversary Tonight
Speaker 2: is Thursday, October third. The anniversary of what happened a
Speaker 2: year ago will be on Monday, and it was timed
Speaker 2: that way, I'm sure, by Hamas, to do it during
Speaker 2: a period of time of reflection and prayer in Israel,
Speaker 2: and here we have a year later. As opposed to
Speaker 2: all of us memorializing and remembering those who were lost
Speaker 2: and those who were still captive, Students for Justice and
Speaker 2: Palace Design are going to try to turn it around
Speaker 2: and turn the spotlight away from the real victims towards
Speaker 2: what they claim a victims Palestinians who live in Gaza.
Speaker 2: But those Palestinians have been placed in the line of fire.
Speaker 2: They are basically being held against their will by Hamas
Speaker 2: in Gaza. And you know, Hamas from a tactical point
Speaker 2: of view, has been brilliant, but from a moral point
Speaker 2: of view, absolutely corrupt. We'll be back on nightside if
Speaker 2: you'd like to join the conversation from whatever point of view.
Speaker 2: Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty, six
Speaker 2: one seven, nine, three one ten thirty and triple eight
Speaker 2: nine to nine, ten thirty were back on night side
Speaker 2: with my friend Jeff Robins, who has stood on the side.
Speaker 2: And by the way, you know, Jeff and I disagree
Speaker 2: on a lot of political things, but in this we
Speaker 2: are united, okay, as every American should be united. Never again.
Speaker 2: We are seeing the beginnings of something that we should
Speaker 2: that we should denounce immediately, immediately and forcefully. And unfortunately
Speaker 2: many people are quiet. They are they are averting their
Speaker 2: stay or they were averting their eyes, and they are
Speaker 2: nonetheless contributing to what could be could be a holocaust,
Speaker 2: even worse, if it's possible, then what happened because there
Speaker 2: were six million Jewish people who were killed by Hitler
Speaker 2: Germany and his henchmen. This is a group of people
Speaker 2: who want to eradicate a nation, a nation because they
Speaker 2: happen to be Jewish. Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 3: This, Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World.
Speaker 2: Night Side Studios on w b Z the news Radio,
Speaker 2: back with Jeff Ross Robins. He used to work with
Speaker 2: a guy named Jeff Ross for a long time ago.
Speaker 2: I was the news director of w BZ TV. But
Speaker 2: this is Jeff Robins, Boston attorney with Mince Levin, former
Speaker 2: head of the Anti Defamation League here in New England,
Speaker 2: a journalist and a student of Israel. He also teaches
Speaker 2: courses in in different colleges, so at least one of
Speaker 2: which I know of which need not be mentioned, but
Speaker 2: it's an Avy League college. So we'll leave it right
Speaker 2: like that. Let's go. We're talking about We're going to
Speaker 2: talk about Israel and about what may be happening in
Speaker 2: American college campuses in the weeks in this next week ahead.
Speaker 2: They have said what they want to do, and generally,
Speaker 2: when these radical groups say what they want to do,
Speaker 2: they do exactly that Davis in San Antonio, Texas. Dave,
Speaker 2: you first, this hour and nightsager.
Speaker 4: Right ahead, Oh god, how you doing. You know, I'm
Speaker 4: half Jewish, half black, and my father, my grandfather, when
Speaker 4: he was over in this country, he parked his car
Speaker 4: in front of a railroad car and left the home
Speaker 4: note let the note home saying I'm worthboard Dad alive
Speaker 4: because are the persecution that he suffered at that time.
Speaker 4: I think that you got to you got to stop
Speaker 4: talking giving those kids the attention that they're getting. Society
Speaker 4: should metaphorically put a privacy sensor around that school, keep
Speaker 4: their kids from going to that school, elect officials that
Speaker 4: will limited export exchange students from attending that school, and
Speaker 4: teach them a financial lesson.
Speaker 2: Well, it's just not one school, Dave, Dave, it's just
Speaker 2: not one school. This was on campuses across the country.
Speaker 2: Uh you know from M I T.
Speaker 4: Yeah, your your your ivy league and your elite thing,
Speaker 4: your elite ones were ones where all the rich people
Speaker 4: are there, not the majority. It's smart majority.
Speaker 2: Let's have a conversation. Okay, okay, all right, it is.
Speaker 2: There were campuses all over the country. Okay, including you're
Speaker 2: far from the majority. Okay, you know what, Dave, let
Speaker 2: me step aside. Let's let mister Robbins respond to you
Speaker 2: and see if you can control yourself and agent a
Speaker 2: conversation with him, because you're not able to gauge your
Speaker 2: conversation with me. Go ahead, Jeff, good luck.
Speaker 3: Well, Dan's obviously right, this is non isolated instance. It
Speaker 3: kind of took on a wave across certain college campuses.
Speaker 3: You're right that it wasn't all college campuses, but it's
Speaker 3: it's it's kind of difficult to ignore something as profound
Speaker 3: as what occurred. I think Dan is right, you know,
Speaker 3: to the to the ninth power here, it is morally
Speaker 3: depraved to celebrate the slaughter of civilians. It is morally
Speaker 3: I guess my point is that, Dave, do me a favor.
Speaker 2: You can interrupt me, but if you interrupt the guests,
Speaker 2: you're going to walk the plank. So just listen to
Speaker 2: what Jeff has to say and then comment. It's called
Speaker 2: a conversation. You're going to enjoy it. Go ahead, Jeff.
Speaker 3: I understand the hope that you can kind of ignore
Speaker 3: this and not pay attention to it, would that it
Speaker 3: were so. I think the point is that it's so
Speaker 3: profoundly morally depraved. It reflects so badly on our campuses
Speaker 3: and on certain segments of our society, on basic decency,
Speaker 3: that it's just very tough to ignore it, tough to
Speaker 3: the point of impossible.
Speaker 4: I think, I agree with you, but you don't have
Speaker 4: any law enforcement in this country that's going to do
Speaker 4: anything to make them people regret what they're doing.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, you raise generally.
Speaker 2: Jed Dave. He was starting to formulate.
Speaker 4: Okay, wow, I haven't finished yet.
Speaker 3: A couple of things. A couple of things. I mean,
Speaker 3: there is you know, beyond law enforcement. You can't apply
Speaker 3: law enforcement to loathsome views. The more fundamental problem is
Speaker 3: the loathsomeness of the views, the ignorance. I mean, I've
Speaker 3: said often that I don't think a lot of these
Speaker 3: students can tell you the difference between the Gaza strip
Speaker 3: and the Louisiana purchase. So you've got an ignorance problem.
Speaker 3: But as Dan points out, people have really been gulled
Speaker 3: into a kind of moral witlessness that's really problematic, too problematic,
Speaker 3: I agree with Dan, way too problematic to ignore. You
Speaker 3: can't it's not a law enforcement problem. Really fundamentally it's
Speaker 3: a problem much deeper than that.
Speaker 2: They're almost like useful idiots in the sense that they
Speaker 2: apparently know nothing of history. They know nothing of World
Speaker 2: War two and the events leading up to World War two.
Speaker 2: They know nothing about the founding of the state of Israel.
Speaker 2: They know nothing of what happened actually happened on October seventh.
Speaker 2: But they're out there in the streets. So I don't know, Dave.
Speaker 2: Let me give you in this conversation, final work. Go
Speaker 2: right ahead.
Speaker 4: I remember a conversation on DAAN that Morgan Freeman was
Speaker 4: having with one of the prominent host hosts there, and
Speaker 4: at the end of the conversation, the host said to him,
Speaker 4: what do we do about all this racism here in
Speaker 4: this country? And Morgan looked at him and said, stop
Speaker 4: talking about him.
Speaker 2: Okay, Dave, thank you very much for you call. Appreciate
Speaker 2: your call. Maybe what we'll do is we'll stop talking
Speaker 2: about it. I won't stop talking about it, but Dave
Speaker 2: is welcome to stop talking about it as well. Jeff,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the answer to stop talking about it,
Speaker 2: because if you ignore it, just like any sort of
Speaker 2: a cancer, if you ignore it, it's only going to
Speaker 2: metastasize further.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fanciful to hope you can ignore it. It's
Speaker 3: it's way too entit and cancer, truthfully, is a pretty
Speaker 3: good analogy. You just got this kind of you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's cool to celebrate the slaughter of people. It's
Speaker 3: okay to embrace that, to celebrate it, to you know,
Speaker 3: to advocate for it, to embrace it, to whitewash it
Speaker 3: for that's too fundamental problems to ignore.
Speaker 2: I'm afraid, Jeff, I've never asked you this question before,
Speaker 2: and I'll be really interested in what you how you answered,
Speaker 2: not only as my friend, but also as a First
Speaker 2: Amendment scholar. I believe that the horrors that were inflicted
Speaker 2: on those innocent civilians last October seventh has never been
Speaker 2: shown to the American people. It almost it gets sanitized.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you have seen some of the videotape that
Speaker 2: were taken by that that was taken by the terrorist
Speaker 2: and made available. For some reason, the folks who have
Speaker 2: run network newscasts have said, we don't want to show
Speaker 2: this in its full horror to the American people, and
Speaker 2: I understand that, But have we got to the point
Speaker 2: where we need to kind of show people to get
Speaker 2: their attention and maybe to make them truly understand how horrific,
Speaker 2: how horror to think that that morning was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right. I just think, like I
Speaker 3: know you do, that the moral failure, the moral frivolity
Speaker 3: of this segment of the American left, to the American
Speaker 3: purported left, it's so troublesome, it's so dangerous that you
Speaker 3: have to try something to crack, you know, the conscience
Speaker 3: of the you know, let's face it, the TikTok generation.
Speaker 3: And therefore we're not left with anything, I think, other
Speaker 3: than to try to show them what it is that occurred,
Speaker 3: what was deliberately carried out, planned for months, if not years,
Speaker 3: and that which these particular individuals on campuses or elsewhere
Speaker 3: on the left, on the so called progressive side of things,
Speaker 3: which is a phrase I can't understand in this context,
Speaker 3: to try to crack the consciousness so basically people understand,
Speaker 3: this is what they're getting behind when they say they're exhilarated,
Speaker 3: when they say harmas is us, when they say we
Speaker 3: are harmas, that's what they're getting behind.
Speaker 2: I think you're right, exactly, and I don't know if
Speaker 2: there's going to be a network. I mean, the network
Speaker 2: could put up, hey, folks, get the kids out of
Speaker 2: the room, or whatever they want. We're going to show
Speaker 2: this in its full horror so you understand what we're
Speaker 2: dealing with. I think that, for example, the American people
Speaker 2: turned against the Vietnam War because the networks showed what
Speaker 2: was going on in Vietnam. If they had sanitized that,
Speaker 2: the war would have gone on longer. There would have
Speaker 2: been more Americans who would have died. I just think
Speaker 2: that sometimes you have to basically say it as it is,
Speaker 2: tell it as it is, and maybe even show it
Speaker 2: as it is. And we'll take a break. We've got
Speaker 2: a newscast coming up, and we get back. We'll get
Speaker 2: to more phone calls. I'd love to have some of
Speaker 2: you respond to that. I think that I really think
Speaker 2: that is necessary. It's one thing to say, oh, children
Speaker 2: will be headed and women were raped and grandparents were
Speaker 2: shot and killed in front of the grandchildren. It's something
Speaker 2: quite else to show it, to show it and it's
Speaker 2: all it's horror. You can use it so that the
Speaker 2: faces are not shown. Okay, you can do some editing.
Speaker 2: I know that you can do that. Back on Nightside,
Speaker 2: right after this if you're on the night Side with
Speaker 2: Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio, Oh, we will
Speaker 2: be continuing that conversation. Jeff Robbins Boston Herald, a syndicated columnist,
Speaker 2: also a lawyer of First Amendment lawyer with a mince
Speaker 2: Levin here in Boston, very powerful law firm. Join the conversation,
Speaker 2: and if you disagree with what we're saying, and I'd
Speaker 2: love to find out here from some of you. I
Speaker 2: think the American public is able to We should have
Speaker 2: been shown what actually happened, and we got a sanitize version.
Speaker 2: We got verbal descriptions that that children were slaughtered in
Speaker 2: homes and that people were hand grenades were thrown into
Speaker 2: you know, it was like very personal killing. So I'll
Speaker 2: be interesting if people agree with that or not. As
Speaker 2: I said, Jeff, I think it can be sanitized to
Speaker 2: the point we don't have to show the image of
Speaker 2: the person's face, but to show somebody, you know, on
Speaker 2: the ground who has lost a limb. I think the
Speaker 2: horror of this, we think about this as like what
Speaker 2: we see on television. You know, the bad guy gets
Speaker 2: shot and he falls over, and we know that's not real.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we can differentiate as a country
Speaker 2: anymore the amount of slaughter that we see in the
Speaker 2: movies and on television with what is actual slaughtered. Does that?
Speaker 2: Am I making any sense to you on that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so. And you're harkening back to the
Speaker 3: images of Vietnam and the depth in Vietnam and the effect,
Speaker 3: for example, the coverage of the tet offensive nineteen sixty
Speaker 3: eight had on America is a very apt analogy. I
Speaker 3: think you're right that words like blowing apart and raping
Speaker 3: and kidnapping and limbs and all the rest of it,
Speaker 3: it does not do justice to what occurred. And you know,
Speaker 3: I think that helps sort of facilitate a kind of
Speaker 3: a coldness on the part of some people about what
Speaker 3: happened on October seventh. And by the way, let's not
Speaker 3: forget what happened on October seventh was calculated not just
Speaker 3: the slaughter Israelis, but to lead immediately to the deaths
Speaker 3: of Palestinian civilians, thousands of them. This is the responsibility
Speaker 3: of Hamas.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Without without the terror attack, there would have never
Speaker 2: been in need for Israel to go in and literally
Speaker 2: root out the terrorists from underneath hospital buildings and schools
Speaker 2: in Gaza. Let's keep rolling. It's also the context. I mean,
Speaker 2: you hear about a firefight between or a shootout and
Speaker 2: you realize, okay, the police ended up killing someone or
Speaker 2: a police officer was shot. Horrible. But this was people
Speaker 2: who were in their beds in the morning, at six
Speaker 2: point thirty in the morning, who were welcomed by people
Speaker 2: with automatic weapons just spraying bullets inside their homes and
Speaker 2: killing randomly. It's and these they were American college students
Speaker 2: marching in the streets supporting this looks Next up Davis
Speaker 2: in New Hampshire. Dave, welcome next on Nights you're all
Speaker 2: with Jeff Robins. Go right ahead, Dave.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mister Robin's question, so, if you're so focused on Israel's
Speaker 1: right to self dessense, what have you done to raise
Speaker 1: concerns about the Israeli governments attack on their own people's
Speaker 1: ability to defend themselves. My understanding is it Tel Aviv
Speaker 1: restricts gun ownership at limits am opens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we lost him, Jeff. We did not hang up
Speaker 2: on him, and I think he is a a gun
Speaker 2: advocate and he was trying to basically turn this conversation
Speaker 2: away from what we're talking about. So the radio gods,
Speaker 2: I think did us a favor on that one. Let's
Speaker 2: go next to Gary, that's true, and we did not.
Speaker 2: He somehow disconnected himself. Let me go to Gary in
Speaker 2: New Jersey. Gary, you were next on nights. I appreciate
Speaker 2: you calling in the right ahead. Gary.
Speaker 5: Well, I wasn't gonna call because it is the holiday
Speaker 5: and everything, but I did turn you on to listen.
Speaker 5: And what you said is, you know, near and dear
Speaker 5: to me.
Speaker 2: One.
Speaker 5: No one believed the Holocaust till they saw those films,
Speaker 5: all those they thought they were rumors. It couldn't be.
Speaker 5: But that's just one small part. I had once the
Speaker 5: other day at jw V the Jewish War veterans that
Speaker 5: we were eating, and naturally we solved everything by the
Speaker 5: time dessert was there.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course.
Speaker 5: And the thing is, and this was to a man,
Speaker 5: and you know a lot of us have retired law enforcement,
Speaker 5: all most of the old guys now like may Vietnam veterans.
Speaker 5: And one of the things we said is that this
Speaker 5: generation and Jews that's happening to him in school, none
Speaker 5: of this is ever going to get fixed by talking.
Speaker 5: The only thing a bully really understands is forced and
Speaker 5: unless these kids organize themselves and start really fighting back.
Speaker 5: Once that happens, bullies like to fight with people who
Speaker 5: won't do anything. Once they start fighting back and doing something,
Speaker 5: a lot of this is going to dissipate. And I
Speaker 5: don't only say this.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see what you've got to cut you. You
Speaker 2: know that. I guess what you're sort of suggesting is
Speaker 2: something the equivalent to a collegiate Jewish defense league.
Speaker 5: I think, well, what I'm suggesting is I grew up
Speaker 5: in a tough neighborhood, and at that time, you know,
Speaker 5: about my age, things were more divided among religious lines
Speaker 5: than racial. Sometimes you had to go to another neighborhood
Speaker 5: and you went with a couple of guys and you
Speaker 5: did what you had to do. No one got killed.
Speaker 5: But after that, none of that happened anymore on either side,
Speaker 5: and until these people realized that they're going to get
Speaker 5: an ass whip and they're going to keep doing it.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're talking about what we lawyers refer to as
Speaker 2: self help. Jeff respond to suggestions, good luck, Well, let me.
Speaker 3: In this way, not directly, but Here's what you've said
Speaker 3: makes me think of we started talking about Students for
Speaker 3: Justice in Palestine, which is really an intimidation based organiz
Speaker 3: It's been hugely successful scaring the be Jesus out of
Speaker 3: people on campuses. And I think that what last year
Speaker 3: did teach us, and I agree with you about this,
Speaker 3: is that there's got to be a new sort of
Speaker 3: surge of courage on the part of people, Jews, non Jews, whatever, faculty,
Speaker 3: students to confront this. And I'm not talking about violently.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about to challenge this nonsense, to say we
Speaker 3: stand against this, we don't buy this, it's not working,
Speaker 3: and stop the intimidation that has to happen on campuses.
Speaker 3: If we're going to roll this back, by the way
Speaker 3: I think it can happen, I get a vague sense
Speaker 3: that maybe there's a little bit of pushback going on
Speaker 3: on certain campuses. Now. You know, faculty votes for investment
Speaker 3: don't get the same number of votes they did before.
Speaker 3: The Boston Globe, which is astonishing to me up here
Speaker 3: did an editorial today against the Boycotten devestment and sanctions movement,
Speaker 3: So maybe there's some pushback. So I agree with you
Speaker 3: to this extent, those bullies, and I count students for
Speaker 3: Justice in Palestine so called as bullies. Classic bullies have
Speaker 3: to be challenged and confronted. If that doesn't happen, then
Speaker 3: we're not going to see and end to this anytime soon.
Speaker 5: I totally agree with you. But you know, one of
Speaker 5: the things that I see is a lot of the
Speaker 5: parents of students that had nothing to do with this.
Speaker 5: You know, they're not taking these kids out of these colleges.
Speaker 5: I mean, I have no idea what it costs to
Speaker 5: sense someone to yell at Harvey, but I'm sure it's
Speaker 5: a good.
Speaker 2: Buck if you're including room and board as well as tuition. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I.
Speaker 5: Would say if I'm spending that kind of money, I
Speaker 5: would have to be going, what the hell are you
Speaker 5: letting go on here? I want my kid to get it.
Speaker 5: You know, someone who has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: Trying one of them for preach your contract carry out.
Speaker 2: They got a lot of lawyers. Okay, I know what
Speaker 2: you're saying, but do you want to take your kid
Speaker 2: out once? Once your child's been your son or daughter's
Speaker 2: been accepted to.
Speaker 5: A you know, well, I know once universe, I would
Speaker 5: have to I would have to get I would have
Speaker 5: to say and go see someone saying, I'm giving you
Speaker 5: eighty ninety brand a year. I want my kid to
Speaker 5: get the education what paying for. And I think more
Speaker 5: parents did that, you know. And I like to see
Speaker 5: when the sponsors or I guess donors to these university
Speaker 5: and I say a lot of that.
Speaker 2: A lot of that happened last year, and we need
Speaker 2: to see more of it. That's the sort of uh yeah,
Speaker 2: I totally agree with that. Gary is always thank you
Speaker 2: so much for rasing in New Jersey.
Speaker 5: Good good new year to everybody, and let's hope this
Speaker 5: crap gets squared away and.
Speaker 2: A good new year to you and your family as well.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Garrett.
Speaker 2: Good take quick break. Jeff Robbins as my guest. We
Speaker 2: will continue our conversation right after this. Now back to
Speaker 2: Dan live from the Window World Nightside Studios on WBZ
Speaker 2: News Radio.
Speaker 6: All right, back to the calls. You go, got full lines,
Speaker 6: try to get everyone in here. Let me go next
Speaker 6: to Carol in Halifax. Carol you in next on night Side.
Speaker 6: Thank you for calling in and uh I love to
Speaker 6: hear what you have to say to Jeff Robins.
Speaker 7: Go right ahead, Carol, Hi, Hi Dan, thanks for taking
Speaker 7: my call. I are you in Halifax?
Speaker 2: Are you in Halifax, Massachusetts and Nova Scotia?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Sure, yeah, Massachusetts?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, good? Correct? I correct, want to correct myself. Go
Speaker 2: right ahead.
Speaker 7: Something you said earlier struck a cold of me about
Speaker 7: showing the films, the actual video of the attack. I
Speaker 7: can I can recall ninth grade my history teacher bringing
Speaker 7: in black and white films from the Holocaust and showing
Speaker 7: it to the class and and what a wake up
Speaker 7: call that was and realize and realize and the horrors
Speaker 7: that can be done to other humans by humans. And
Speaker 7: I agree with you that too much sanitation is going on.
Speaker 7: They really need to, uh, you know, make people aware
Speaker 7: of the horrors of what happened there and that how
Speaker 7: it should never happen again. You know, It's just.
Speaker 2: I mean, I watched tonight or one of the evening newscasts.
Speaker 8: There was a gentleman who was beaten to death by
Speaker 8: three Memphis, Tennessee police police officers, and that was shown
Speaker 8: in its full brutality from body camps.
Speaker 2: And you say, why was that shown? It was shown
Speaker 2: to show that these police officers literally lost control of themselves.
Speaker 2: They like rapid dogs. And this man was on the ground,
Speaker 2: he was helpless, and the beating continued. And I think
Speaker 2: it's important for other police officer to say, you know,
Speaker 2: do you have want to be portrayed in this situation.
Speaker 2: This is not a police officer, was struggling with someone
Speaker 2: over gun and the gun fired, and so this was
Speaker 2: a man who was beaten to death by these or
Speaker 2: at least they were convicted by the way today in court.
Speaker 2: And I just think that this, uh, sometimes you have
Speaker 2: you know, everything doesn't have to be sanitized anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, Jeff quick comment and what Carol of
Speaker 2: Halifax had to say.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Another example of what both of you have said is
Speaker 3: the is the coverage of the beating of black civil
Speaker 3: rights workers and marchers in the nineteen sixties, the impact
Speaker 3: that that had on American public opinion. Another example of
Speaker 3: exactly what you guys are saying.
Speaker 2: Carol, Thank you. Have you called before? This is your
Speaker 2: first time?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have called before.
Speaker 4: Call.
Speaker 2: Okay, I love you, call, thank you. Let me go
Speaker 2: to Betty on the boat. Betty on the boat in Boston. Harvey,
Speaker 2: you're on with Jeff Robins Betty, go right ahead.
Speaker 9: How are you tonight, sir?
Speaker 3: Well, thank you.
Speaker 9: I believe in all honesty that we should not sanitize
Speaker 9: any news that's going on in the world because it's
Speaker 9: a misrepresentation of the fact. Emerson said in one of
Speaker 9: his essays on nature. Words are a sign of natural fact,
Speaker 9: and if you're going to sanitize some news, it's not
Speaker 9: fair to the American public. I remember as a child
Speaker 9: going to the movies with my mother. I was four
Speaker 9: or five years old. We were going to see God's
Speaker 9: Ziah and before the movie, they had a newsreel showing
Speaker 9: planes taking off from the ships. They showed bombs being dropped,
Speaker 9: and then they never sanitized the news. This is something
Speaker 9: that became vogue over the past couple of decades. It
Speaker 9: isn't right, it isn't fair. You're not getting the true story,
Speaker 9: so you can't and they make an informed decision.
Speaker 2: We both agree. I think with your Betty on that, Betty,
Speaker 2: I would I would like I know that you are
Speaker 2: are a fixture in Boston and you're a great caller
Speaker 2: to this show. We're going to start tonight, and this
Speaker 2: is a little off topic, but since you're here, this
Speaker 2: is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, as I'm sure you know,
Speaker 2: in October, and in conjunction with our friends of college Hype,
Speaker 2: we're going to give away a lot of Nightside T shirts,
Speaker 2: pink Nightside T shirts, and I would love to you
Speaker 2: have to be the first one that we send one to.
Speaker 2: So if you would leave your address now, we want
Speaker 2: like medium large, maybe extra large, whatever. If you leave
Speaker 2: an address right and said that.
Speaker 5: You we will get one to you with the next
Speaker 5: thank you.
Speaker 9: But the other thing is is that there was a
Speaker 9: study done by the International Society of Traumas called ITS
Speaker 9: and it involved the effects of trauma such as the Holocaust.
Speaker 9: And one of my associates, let me call him, that
Speaker 9: is a member of IT'S, and that there's a doctor
Speaker 9: by the name of doctor Daniel Baron, and he was
Speaker 9: in Israel and he was kind of he was the
Speaker 9: authority on international generation trauma. And he went and he
Speaker 9: found Hitler's godson living in Detroit, and they went and
Speaker 9: they talked to him and he became part of a
Speaker 9: study and they ultimately found that there was forgiveness between
Speaker 9: the generations of Holocaust victims and that the man had
Speaker 9: lambs in his house with strange pots. He never understood
Speaker 9: that they were body pots from the Holocaust, and he
Speaker 9: got rid of them. But yeah, I'd be honored to
Speaker 9: have a one of your T shirts and I'd wear
Speaker 9: it with pride.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Betty, you stay there. Give that information.
Speaker 2: I'm running out of time here, so I got to
Speaker 2: say good night to you.
Speaker 9: I can hear you, and you take care you.
Speaker 2: Stay, don't hang up. Give the information that Rob will need. Jeff,
Speaker 2: We're we're flat out of time. I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: the callers who are on the line to stay and
Speaker 2: we'll continue this conversation until the next hour. But let
Speaker 2: me give you a final words, Jeff. What can people do?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they can write letters. They can
Speaker 2: call the universities. They can they can encourage the universities,
Speaker 2: amongst other things, to do the right thing and maintain
Speaker 2: order to keep classes open. Anything else you want to
Speaker 2: that you would.
Speaker 3: Suggest, Well, generally, the effort to intimidate people on this
Speaker 3: issue extends to school committee meetings and town halls and
Speaker 3: PTA meetings and classrooms and all the rest of it.
Speaker 3: Wherever people meet, we used to call the water cooler.
Speaker 3: And so I think what people need to do is
Speaker 3: to not stay silent, but to speak up and to serve.
Speaker 3: Notice that you know, when this kind of slaughter, when
Speaker 3: this kind of genocidal attack, when this kind of virulent
Speaker 3: anti Semitism gets raised, that it's going to be met
Speaker 3: with a challenge. And I think that's the best thing
Speaker 3: that people can do, and it's an important thing, and frankly,
Speaker 3: you do it on a constant basis, and so we
Speaker 3: all owe you, Dan Ray a great debt of gratitude.
Speaker 2: It seems to me, well, if I didn't utilize this
Speaker 2: microphone for that cause, I would be remiss in my responsibilities.
Speaker 2: I feel strongly about it, and I appreciate having people
Speaker 2: like you who are allies on this. And again, i'm
Speaker 2: sure that you're going to be writing something about this
Speaker 2: next Tuesday if I had to, If I had.
Speaker 3: To bet, you're absolutely right. And thank you so much again, Dan,
Speaker 3: Thanks Jeff.
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon. For those of you in the line,
Speaker 2: please stay there. Russell, Richard, and Doug. The only lines
Speaker 2: that are open are two and three, which is six
Speaker 2: one seven two five four ten thirty six one seven,
Speaker 2: two five four ten thirty. I'd like to continue this
Speaker 2: conversations as the hour continues, and I just think it's important.
Speaker 2: I really think it's important. And let's let's get ahead
Speaker 2: of this, and let's not sit next week and be
Speaker 2: surprised that college campuses have erupted again, because I believe
Speaker 2: they will erupt if we say nothing, and hopefully even
Speaker 2: our conversation about it might tamp it down a little bit.
Speaker 2: So stay there, back on Night's side. Right after the
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock news