WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Before we start today, we would like to dedicate this

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<v Speaker 1>episode to Ali Moore. She was a friend of the

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<v Speaker 1>show and a true crime enthusiast who recently and unexpectedly

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<v Speaker 1>lost her life. You are our official badass of the day, Alley.

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<v Speaker 1>May you rest in peace.

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<v Speaker 2>We all know that dark Words Don't drink the kool

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<v Speaker 2>Aid and its unfortunate origins. It was birthed by a cult,

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<v Speaker 2>and it showed just how many people can really be manipulated.

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<v Speaker 2>Cults are also infamous for extreme idealisms and even sometimes abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>The ant Hill Kids is a story of a Canadian

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<v Speaker 2>cult that became so extreme that their leader not only

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<v Speaker 2>claimed to be a messiah, but abused the members and

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<v Speaker 2>performed extremely gruesome acts upon them. For example, though he

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<v Speaker 2>had no training and he has no doctor, he sure

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<v Speaker 2>pretended like he was. My name's Ben and I'm Nicole.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're listening to Wicked and.

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<v Speaker 2>Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following material in more

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<v Speaker 2>mature audience listener discretion. I'm fully disclosing this right now.

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<v Speaker 2>This is part one of The ant Hill Kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, you are too kind.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm letting you know just so you don't like get

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<v Speaker 2>all the way to the end of this episode, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, tune in next week Wicked, and you're like, fuck, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, well there's deaf only one or two episodes where

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<v Speaker 1>we have done that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know that was kind of me. I've learned

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<v Speaker 2>my lesson because there was recoil from that, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, maybe you know, some notice will be nice.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, this is a part one of two parts.

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<v Speaker 2>So yes, it is most certainly we were. Actually, we

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<v Speaker 2>did a poll over on Patreon. We let our patrons

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<v Speaker 2>choose the next case. We put three different options up,

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<v Speaker 2>this being one of them, and uh yeah, this one one,

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<v Speaker 2>but by quite a bit, and there was a few

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<v Speaker 2>people being like, oh no, the antil.

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<v Speaker 1>Kids, good luck to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So here we are actually before while we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about Patreon, I'm gonna just get right in and thank

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<v Speaker 2>the patrons that signed up this week.

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<v Speaker 1>Sound good, sounds great?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So we had Renee Scott, Katie Stetler, Amelia and

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<v Speaker 2>Clay Swanson. They all joined up over on Patreon. They're

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<v Speaker 2>getting behind the scenes content the extra episode at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the month, all that good stuff, good juicy

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<v Speaker 2>stiff exactly. So thank you guys so much. For signing up.

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<v Speaker 2>We appreciate the absolute shit out of you guys, and

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<v Speaker 2>even if you're just listening right now, we appreciate the

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<v Speaker 2>shit out of you guys too. Don't think that getting

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<v Speaker 2>off the leash because trust me. Yeah, awesome, She's right.

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<v Speaker 1>My wine is also freaking amazing, is it now? Holy heck?

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<v Speaker 1>This is probably one of the best roses I've ever had.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't feed it to me because might drink it.

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<v Speaker 1>All from eight generation in.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my God, Kamloops.

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<v Speaker 1>Summerland. Okay, you gotta just try it, Just try it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I did open a beer ready. Prior to this episode,

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<v Speaker 2>we did a little pre show for Patreon, so.

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<v Speaker 1>It's dang good. I'm gonna have to read it at

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, are you cudding? Actually you're not too

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<v Speaker 1>far off.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>Dang good.

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<v Speaker 2>Eh yep, sorry, I gurgled your wine.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah my gosh. Do you want some freaking hallow candy

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<v Speaker 1>while you're at it?

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<v Speaker 2>Is there any left?

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<v Speaker 1>No? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Or you know, slurp your margarita?

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<v Speaker 2>Why not? We We got to let people know a

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<v Speaker 2>few things here. There is a little bit of extra

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that we're putting out there into the world, into

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<v Speaker 2>the world. It's true, that's what we're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>True.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, you know how Wicked and Grim comes out

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<v Speaker 2>with an episode every single Tuesday, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I am aware of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, our other podcast, Fearful, is officially coming out with

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<v Speaker 2>a web with a web I was gonna say episode

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<v Speaker 2>an episode every single Wednesday now, so you can listen

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<v Speaker 2>to Wicked and Grim every Tuesday and Fearful every single Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 1>That's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's currently ten episodes out for Fearful, but another

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<v Speaker 2>one is getting uploaded tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. That's freaking exciting right there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's super exciting. Yeah wow, and not only that, do

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<v Speaker 2>you want to hit him up on our other platform,

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<v Speaker 2>tell them about we're doing over there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, do we have set days really for that yet?

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<v Speaker 2>No, there's not really set days for that yet.

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<v Speaker 1>But okay, well we do how We've mentioned it before,

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<v Speaker 1>but we do have a YouTube channel. It's called Wicked Life. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's pretty wicked. Actually, you don't say, I do say,

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<v Speaker 1>and on there we have vlogs and we well am

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<v Speaker 1>I allowed to We're also going to be doing another podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, am I allowed to be saying?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? It's in the works. It's going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit before it comes out because it will be

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<v Speaker 2>a video podcast over there, So we got a few

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<v Speaker 2>things to get lined up first, but Wicked Life podcast

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<v Speaker 2>vlogs are happening over there, just a whole yeah, good

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<v Speaker 2>stuff about our life and yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I mean our lifestyle, it's a little it's a

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<v Speaker 1>little different at times, Like we live in a tiny home.

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<v Speaker 2>We quit the nine to five jobs to tase on

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<v Speaker 2>dreams viewers.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so like we have we both have businesses that

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<v Speaker 1>we can kind of teach on from that aspect as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's like there's many things, yeah, that can be there.

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<v Speaker 1>It's gonna be pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus we have two huskies, a black cat and eight

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<v Speaker 2>chickens and those are definitely some source of interest in

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<v Speaker 2>our lives and subjects of a few blocks.

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<v Speaker 1>And I even like we live in Northern b C.

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<v Speaker 1>What's Northern BC all about?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there is definitely one video I want to do

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<v Speaker 2>on YouTube where we talk about having a tiny home

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<v Speaker 2>in Northern BC. Yeah, because there's none of that on

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<v Speaker 2>YouTube of tiny homes in like the north. Yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Wicked Life link is down below if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>go check it out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. It's pretty cool and real cool, real real cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Well we digress. Are you ready to hop into the

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<v Speaker 2>ant hill? Kiss?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought I was. Now I'm nervous.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you sure I'm a little nervous. You think you

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<v Speaker 2>can take this one?

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<v Speaker 1>I think I can? Yeah? Yeah, I do like cult cases.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I'm gonna just call you the Little Train

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<v Speaker 2>that Could because I think I can. I think I

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<v Speaker 2>can even clue into that. That's awesome. Okay, Well this

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<v Speaker 2>is going to start off with an individual by the

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<v Speaker 2>name of Roche Terrio aka Moses Moses. Yeah, ok so,

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<v Speaker 2>Roche was a very disturbed individual, to say the least. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>He was born on May sixteenth, nineteen forty seven in Sagoone, Quebec, Canada,

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<v Speaker 2>and led a life marked by religious fervor. Let's say,

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<v Speaker 2>not only that, but delusions of grandeur and a very

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<v Speaker 2>twisted interpretation of biblical teachings. So he was raised in

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<v Speaker 2>the thetfurt Minds excuse me, a small city set in

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<v Speaker 2>south central Quebec of Canada. He displayed remarkable intelligence when

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<v Speaker 2>he was young, but dropped out of school at the

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<v Speaker 2>age of thirteen, and from there he began immersing himself

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<v Speaker 2>in the Old Testament, particularly the strict Code of masculine authority.

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<v Speaker 2>It portrayed awesome, lovely. Yeah, that's always fantastic to get that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, good old strict masculine, you know, stuff in

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<v Speaker 2>there from the good old days.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly what everyone needs.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely not so. Rocha's troubled childhood was he was. It

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<v Speaker 2>was marred by abuse from his father and fueled with

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<v Speaker 2>obsession with apocalyptic visions and the belief that he was

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<v Speaker 2>destined to lead a divine mission. Despite being raised Catholic,

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<v Speaker 2>he converted to the Seventh day Adventist Church in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>seventy seven, adopting their holistic lifestyle. Their principles basically they

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<v Speaker 2>shunned alcohol, tobacco, and processed foods, which I mean that

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<v Speaker 2>in itself sounds fantastic, yeah, living, I mean, except the

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<v Speaker 2>shutting alcohol.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was just like, that sounds fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole food sort of thing, the processed foods, you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the good foods and the booze.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not necessarily like alcohol is good for you, so.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I mean even Jesus partook

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<v Speaker 2>in some wine, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So just saying, yeah, what do they say it's good

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<v Speaker 1>for your heart?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like one day is going to come back

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<v Speaker 1>on us and be like no, probably.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyways, Roche's time at the Seventh Day Church was

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<v Speaker 2>short lived due to the desire for leadership and leading

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<v Speaker 2>to his expulsion from the church. However, he was undeterred.

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<v Speaker 2>He managed to amass a following, convincing his disciples that

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<v Speaker 2>he was a savior chosen by God to rescue humanity

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<v Speaker 2>from the impending evil that was the soon coming apocalypse now.

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<v Speaker 2>The cult originally formed in nineteen seventy seven in Saint Marie, Quebec,

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<v Speaker 2>with the goal to form a commune where people could

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<v Speaker 2>freely listen to his motivational speeches, live in unity and equality,

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<v Speaker 2>and be free of sin and in all honesty. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a very noble belief. I mean, based upon the group,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it sounds like that's a good way of living,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, I guess, but this idealism

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't exactly last for a.

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<v Speaker 1>Long Yeah, I'm like, this sounds like shit. Actually, something's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna go bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, okay, what their target is, what they're

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<v Speaker 2>trying to do. They can live together in a community

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<v Speaker 2>where they can motivate each other, live in unity with equality,

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<v Speaker 2>be free of sin. You know, they're getting good ingestion

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<v Speaker 2>of good foods, whole foods, no alcohol or tobacco like

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<v Speaker 2>that in itself. That's a good way to live.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean yeah, if you step back and if

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<v Speaker 1>it's just that, but we all know it's gonna get dark.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if they stuck to that, fantastic. But clearly this

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<v Speaker 2>is a cult, true crime episode. That's not what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>They tried, but it didn't last long. So the original

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<v Speaker 2>followers of Roche initially consisted of four men, nine women,

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<v Speaker 2>and four children. Each of them were forbidden for maintaining

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<v Speaker 2>any connection from their families and the Seventh day Adventist

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<v Speaker 2>church that they originally came from. Okay, so basically citing

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<v Speaker 2>this as a violation of his cults principles of freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>Now they were to stick to themselves and that's about it.

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<v Speaker 1>And well I have a question, but I'll wait, I'll wait,

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead and shoo the question. I was curious that

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<v Speaker 1>they're there. So they're at this point, they're there on

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<v Speaker 1>their own free will.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, yes, very much.

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<v Speaker 1>So Okay, don't say it. I know you're hesitating. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>do it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to figure out a way to say it

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<v Speaker 2>properly without giving anything. Don't give anything away, technically speaking.

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<v Speaker 2>Throughout this whole time, they are all there on their

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<v Speaker 2>own free will at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Times, technically speaking.

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<v Speaker 2>Technically speaking, Okay, okay, that's what I'm going to say.

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<v Speaker 2>Roche's dread of the impending apoc clips that we had

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<v Speaker 2>already talked about, would soon begin to intensify over the

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<v Speaker 2>course of their developing of their group. He was convinced

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<v Speaker 2>that God had forewarn him of the arrival of the

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<v Speaker 2>apocalypse in February of nineteen seventy nine, so, utilizing the

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<v Speaker 2>commune as means of preparation, he relocated himself and his

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<v Speaker 2>followers in nineteen seventy eight, the year before the apocalypse

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<v Speaker 2>was supposedly to happen. Can you guess if it happened

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<v Speaker 2>or not. I mean, we're twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I guess is that it didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it didn't happen, but we'll get to that. They

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<v Speaker 2>embarked on a hike to the mountain side that he

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<v Speaker 2>dubbed quote the Eternal Mountain in Saint Joke's Quebec nestled

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<v Speaker 2>within the remote Gaspy Peninsula, so he fervently believed that

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<v Speaker 2>this secluded location was where he could find salvation for himself.

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<v Speaker 2>In the group, there, they would survive the impending end

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<v Speaker 2>of the world scenario that was to come and that

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<v Speaker 2>God foretold him of. So once they made their hike

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<v Speaker 2>to this location, he picked the spot, and Roche, being

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<v Speaker 2>the savior the leader, made his commune build their little

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<v Speaker 2>town on the mountain side while he basically just sat

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<v Speaker 2>back and relaxed.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, okay, yeah, fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, he's probably most likely barking orders. Yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's like, I want this made over here, and do

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<v Speaker 2>this over there.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's kind of fun watching people work when

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<v Speaker 1>you're not working, I guess true.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I will like, he was actually a skilled

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<v Speaker 2>woodworker himself, so when they're building these cabins and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that, he knew how to tell people to construct this,

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<v Speaker 2>which I mean fair enough.

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<v Speaker 1>So technically he was just like supervising.

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<v Speaker 2>He was he was playing foreman, and I think he

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<v Speaker 2>really liked to play foreman, let's put it that way. Yeah, Now,

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<v Speaker 2>his vision and prophecy of the end of the world

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<v Speaker 2>for the following year, of course, failed, as we had

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<v Speaker 2>already mentioned, because hey, we're still alive here in twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three, and his dedicated followers started questioning Rosch's wisdom.

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<v Speaker 2>But like anyone else who is unsuccess yes fully predicted

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the world, he had excuses. He said

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<v Speaker 2>that time on Earth and in God's world were not

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<v Speaker 2>parallel and attributed it to the miscalculation, as there is

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<v Speaker 2>a discrepancy between the Israelite and the Roman Catholic calendars.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, okay, that makes my head hurt almost.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, that's what he's trying to do. That's the point.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, there's a discrepancy and they're not parallel between these

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<v Speaker 2>two calendars and the God world and the real world.

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<v Speaker 1>Shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So therefore it was a miscalculation basically what he's saying.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure that was the same sort of reaction

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<v Speaker 2>he's getting from the followers. Oh okay, mm hmm, well

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<v Speaker 2>he knows also, it must be.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I feel like they're probably be a bit more

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<v Speaker 1>convincing or like that they were pretty convinced. Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because they already trusted him and believed him.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I'm sure they were, but they were convinced

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<v Speaker 2>he knew what he was talking about, because I guarantee

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<v Speaker 2>you they didn't fucking know what he was talking.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's what I'm but it sounded smart and

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<v Speaker 1>like educated.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so you know, definitely. But I mean, you can

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<v Speaker 2>really make anything sound smart and educated if you really want.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I know I'm very good at that. But yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Mean, for example, you can say, I don't know, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>pick uh McDonald's, someone Flippenberger's at McDonald's, right, So you

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to make that sound educated, fancy, sophisticated,

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<v Speaker 2>you can say you are a nutritionist.

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<v Speaker 1>Technician okay, as the job, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a nutritional technician or something like that. There you go.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, honestly, so many titles nowadays are so interesting

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<v Speaker 1>because like, oh, what do you do for a living?

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<v Speaker 1>And they say their title and it's like okay, cool,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you have no idea what the fuck that actually is.

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<v Speaker 2>But you just throw fancy words at people and it's

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<v Speaker 2>like okay, sure they'll just because they don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>feel dumb. Lots of times they'll go with it. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think he kind of prayed on that idea and

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<v Speaker 2>just threw out fancy words and they're like, gotcha. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So life within the commune, despite that hurdle,

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00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:13.600
<v Speaker 2>did begin to grow and things were increasingly radical, as

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<v Speaker 2>Roche quote married multiple women and would father well over

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<v Speaker 2>twenty children within the commune.

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<v Speaker 1>Holy shit.

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00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all while asserting his godlike authority over them. Hate that, yeah,

303
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.240
<v Speaker 2>can't can't blame you for that one.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh huh.

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00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.720
<v Speaker 2>The devotees lived in a secluded and precarious existence, deep

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00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.000
<v Speaker 2>in the wilderness on this mountain side, with minimal contact

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<v Speaker 2>with the outside world. They did, however, resort to various

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00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:44.200
<v Speaker 2>means such as selling crafts and engaging in odds and

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<v Speaker 2>ends jobs, basically just trying to earn money, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of money to keep their little existence,

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00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.679
<v Speaker 2>their little culture kind of going right. Yeah. However, financial

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00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:58.519
<v Speaker 2>struggles perpetually plagued the commune, leaving them teetering on the

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<v Speaker 2>brink of survival. But they just did their best and

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<v Speaker 2>kept chugging along.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, look at how many moles they have

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00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:04.440
<v Speaker 1>to feed.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, definitely, there's not a small number of them.

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<v Speaker 2>They're probably thirty to forty people by now or so

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<v Speaker 2>so Roche, who is now going by the title of Moses,

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00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, possessed a captivating charm, much like many people

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<v Speaker 2>in his position who are leading cults or are psychopaths.

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<v Speaker 2>Medically speaking, they generally have quite a charisma about them,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was no different. And this allowed him to

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<v Speaker 2>exert complete control over his followers, dictating basically their every move. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if anyone was ever found to be not obeying his

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00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.839
<v Speaker 2>words of rule, they would find themselves vulnerable to his

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<v Speaker 2>various means of punishment.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, what was this punishments?

329
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, minor infractions resulted in physical punishments and beatings, okay,

330
00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:02.359
<v Speaker 2>underscoring his absolute authority within the commune. So Roche. In

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00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:07.000
<v Speaker 2>his religion, he had an amalgamation of a lot of

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00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.839
<v Speaker 2>primitive ways of punishing, such as like just bullying, sexual sadism,

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00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.559
<v Speaker 2>and Old Testament teachings in fact were implemented. So despite

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00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.160
<v Speaker 2>the unconventional mix, he had always maintained his position as

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00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:25.000
<v Speaker 2>a supreme leader and messiah, rejecting any notion of equality whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's basically like, listen to me, you don't you're

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00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.160
<v Speaker 2>gonna be punished because I am better than you. I

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<v Speaker 2>am the Messiah, I am Moses, I know better.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, that's just terrifying to me because I feel

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00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:42.359
<v Speaker 1>at some point you're probably just feeling like you're just

341
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.759
<v Speaker 1>in this. You know, you want to leave or you

342
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.200
<v Speaker 1>need to get out of there, but like you're in

343
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:51.319
<v Speaker 1>too deep, you know, Yeah, and that sucks.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let me tell you right now, they aren't in

345
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.480
<v Speaker 2>too deep yet. This is they're just dipping their toes

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00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.799
<v Speaker 2>in minor right. To give you an example of some

347
00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:06.759
<v Speaker 2>of the things that would become Roche began performing surgeries

348
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.240
<v Speaker 2>on the sick and injured within the group. Basically he's

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00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.079
<v Speaker 2>their doctor. He has zero medical experience or history whatsoever.

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00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:19.319
<v Speaker 2>But it did not stop him. For example, I mean

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00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:24.480
<v Speaker 2>this one is in nineteen eighty one, Roche would perform

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00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:29.119
<v Speaker 2>quote surgery on a two year old little boy named

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<v Speaker 2>Samuel Gillery who was experiencing difficulty urinating. So Roche took

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00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:38.240
<v Speaker 2>on the role of this sick doctor and decided he

355
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:43.799
<v Speaker 2>would slice open the child's penis to investigate and correct

356
00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:51.319
<v Speaker 2>the issue. What yes, Now, of course, his quote surgery

357
00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:55.519
<v Speaker 2>was unsuccessful and very painful for the little boy. It's

358
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:57.799
<v Speaker 2>not that they had anesthetic or anything like that.

359
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh.

360
00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Little boy continued to cry. After the so called surgery,

361
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Roche instructed one of his devotees, Guy Veer, to mersus

362
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:13.039
<v Speaker 2>mercilessly beat the young boy, presumably in an attempt to

363
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.400
<v Speaker 2>stop him from crying, or even in some twisted way

364
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.200
<v Speaker 2>of punishing him for crying. Regardless, Guy followed the direction

365
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:23.920
<v Speaker 2>of his Messiah, doing what he was told. Now, tragically,

366
00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:29.079
<v Speaker 2>Samuel succumbed to his beating and injuries. In a desperate

367
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<v Speaker 2>attempt to conceal the murder of the young two year

368
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.039
<v Speaker 2>old Samuel, Roche and the Commune resorted to setting him

369
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<v Speaker 2>on fire and burning his body to try and hide

370
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:40.000
<v Speaker 2>his death.

371
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.640
<v Speaker 1>WHOA, that does not seem like real life.

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00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.799
<v Speaker 2>This is very much so real life. This is what happened.

373
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:51.839
<v Speaker 1>That is so disturbing. And then I also feel like

374
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.839
<v Speaker 1>just listening to that, I mean, I have no idea

375
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.079
<v Speaker 1>but that that could have also have been as sudden.

376
00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:02.799
<v Speaker 1>Potentially it probably was, Yeah, which is just whoa yep,

377
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.880
<v Speaker 1>an added level of just fucked yep.

378
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>So after they burned this poor child's body, because Roche

379
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:18.079
<v Speaker 2>blamed Guy for who carried out the beating for his death,

380
00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:26.839
<v Speaker 2>Roche decided to punish him seriously. So he castrated him.

381
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but he was the one that literally ordered him

382
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.160
<v Speaker 1>to do.

383
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:36.440
<v Speaker 2>That, correct, Okay, but he blamed him for it because

384
00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:39.240
<v Speaker 2>he killed him, and he's so he castrated him.

385
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.039
<v Speaker 1>He's only been in school, like he left school at thirteen,

386
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.240
<v Speaker 1>he said, right, correct, But yet he's like a doctor.

387
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:47.559
<v Speaker 2>He's he's playing a doctor.

388
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:50.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, okay. Uh.

389
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Then after castrating guy, he then compelled his followers to

390
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.759
<v Speaker 2>fabricate a story claiming that guy had been trampled by

391
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:00.920
<v Speaker 2>a horse, in case any weren't asked.

392
00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:03.279
<v Speaker 1>Like that's how it happened kind of thing.

393
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, Yeah, that doesn't really make sense to me.

394
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:09.400
<v Speaker 2>It's like, oh, I was trampled by a horse, my

395
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:11.319
<v Speaker 2>balls got cut off, all right.

396
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that doesn't make any sense because you would also

397
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:15.720
<v Speaker 1>have a little bit more damage too, I.

398
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:19.319
<v Speaker 2>Feel like, yeah, probably just a bit. Yeah. Despite their

399
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:22.559
<v Speaker 2>efforts to conceal the truth on what really happened, law

400
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.279
<v Speaker 2>enforcement began to catch wind of the abuse, and police

401
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.920
<v Speaker 2>raided the commune. Okay, and they discovered the charred remains

402
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:31.759
<v Speaker 2>of Samuel.

403
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.680
<v Speaker 1>They didn't even like hide that a they didn't even

404
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:35.519
<v Speaker 1>hide this shit.

405
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.079
<v Speaker 2>No, not really, by the sounds of it. So Roche

406
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.759
<v Speaker 2>and along with eight others, faced arrest and charges of

407
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:47.440
<v Speaker 2>criminal negligence causing bodily harm. This is where the story

408
00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:52.519
<v Speaker 2>should have ended. However, we are far from the end

409
00:22:52.960 --> 00:23:00.920
<v Speaker 2>of this story. Wonderful Astonishingly enough, they were all eventually released.

410
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Now I couldn't find exactly how long they were in jail,

411
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.920
<v Speaker 2>specifically Roche, but following these events, in nineteen eighty four,

412
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Roche and his loyal followers relocated to a community near

413
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Burnt River, Ontario. So we are talking only three years

414
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:20.960
<v Speaker 2>after this event. He is out and still leading the group.

415
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, of course he is.

416
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:29.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So here he continued his tyrannical rule over his commune,

417
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.960
<v Speaker 2>with now a total of twenty six children, most of

418
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:38.039
<v Speaker 2>whom were his own. In this remote location, the commune

419
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 2>once again built itself a small township comprised of cabins,

420
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.039
<v Speaker 2>with you know, Roch sitting back saying hey build this,

421
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:47.079
<v Speaker 2>do that, and some tents and that sort of stuff.

422
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.559
<v Speaker 2>And once they were here, they tried to kind of

423
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:53.119
<v Speaker 2>blend in with the small local townships nearby. So they

424
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.000
<v Speaker 2>began producing maple syrup, preserves, bread, smoking fish, and they

425
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.839
<v Speaker 2>sold these items just kind of I'm assuming like farmers

426
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.920
<v Speaker 2>market style things or trading back and forth whatever they

427
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:09.119
<v Speaker 2>needed to do. Basically just trying to sustain themselves and

428
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.000
<v Speaker 2>to maintain a facade of some sort of normalacy despite

429
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:16.079
<v Speaker 2>the horrors that had transpired and the new horrors that

430
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.119
<v Speaker 2>were beginning to already unravel.

431
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so it's almost as they're starting over kind of thing, yes,

432
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.880
<v Speaker 1>and trying to just fit in and not bring attention

433
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:27.480
<v Speaker 1>to themselves.

434
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:30.039
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what they're doing. Okay, They're like, hey, we're

435
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:31.799
<v Speaker 2>going to go with Province over. We're going to start

436
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>this thing again, and we're just going to like blend

437
00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.039
<v Speaker 2>in like no one knows their history and who we

438
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.000
<v Speaker 2>are and all this sort of thing and what we did.

439
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, act casual.

440
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.400
<v Speaker 1>You're like little hand gestures there were funny.

441
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Sorry again, we're fine though they were trying to act casual,

442
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:56.599
<v Speaker 2>because trust me, they certainly were. It was here that

443
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the whole hard labor that they were putting in on

444
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>like this mountainside that Roche began to actually compare them

445
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.759
<v Speaker 2>to ants working on an ant hill, thus giving birth

446
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:11.039
<v Speaker 2>to the cult nickname ant Hill Kids. Okay, I mean

447
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:14.839
<v Speaker 2>most of the commune at this point is kids. Yeah,

448
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.200
<v Speaker 2>like ants and an ant Hill and Hill kids.

449
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh they're just yeah, putting kids and everyone will.

450
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Work basically now. Initially, the commune managed to integrate seemingly

451
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:29.720
<v Speaker 2>well within the community, you know, act casule. But Roche

452
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:36.319
<v Speaker 2>began drinking. Alcohol consumption escalated very quickly.

453
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.039
<v Speaker 1>What the shit? I thought that that was a no, no.

454
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:43.519
<v Speaker 2>It was. But he don't don't forget he's Messiah, he's Moses.

455
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the rules don't apply to him exactly. Okay.

456
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:49.759
<v Speaker 2>And so with his drinking and the rules not applying

457
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.839
<v Speaker 2>to him, not only did things escalate quickly, but so

458
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>did the level of violence within the group. Violence began

459
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:04.000
<v Speaker 2>to escalate extremely quickly. His increasing dependency on alcohol became

460
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.079
<v Speaker 2>a catalyst for heightened aggression, leading to him to a

461
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:10.839
<v Speaker 2>certain control over his followers through cruel and dehumanizing methods

462
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Worse than before. The followers, weakened both physically and mentally,

463
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.319
<v Speaker 2>found themselves basically trapped, unable to break free from their

464
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:25.240
<v Speaker 2>supposed Messiah. Though they were technically free, they really weren't.

465
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Well they kind of this was I mean, they relied

466
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:33.640
<v Speaker 1>on him in this group, right, correct? Yeah, so that's hard,

467
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Well it will.

468
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm about to explain some stuff here that really shows

469
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:44.279
<v Speaker 2>how they were free, but they weren't. Okay. So Rocha's

470
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.319
<v Speaker 2>rules were strict before, but now they evolved into something

471
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:51.039
<v Speaker 2>even worse, making his rules before look rather lenient. Honestly,

472
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.160
<v Speaker 2>he would prohibit his followers from speaking to each other

473
00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.279
<v Speaker 2>without his explicit permission or even having him present. They

474
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.559
<v Speaker 2>were not allowed to talk unless he said they were

475
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.279
<v Speaker 2>allowed to, so basically he has to be there for it.

476
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.400
<v Speaker 2>He also began to organize quote gladiator tournaments, forcing his

477
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:13.480
<v Speaker 2>followers into a dirt ring to engage in brutal fights

478
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:14.839
<v Speaker 2>for entertainment, Oh.

479
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:16.559
<v Speaker 1>My gosh, for his entertainment.

480
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:21.440
<v Speaker 2>He also became increasingly paranoid about what followers were thinking

481
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.880
<v Speaker 2>of him, and his violence only escalated as a result.

482
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:30.119
<v Speaker 2>What became began as a physical assault using belts soon

483
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:35.119
<v Speaker 2>evolved into more sinister form, using hammers and the flat

484
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 2>side of axes for beatings.

485
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

486
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, can you imagine getting struck upside the head with

487
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:45.000
<v Speaker 2>a flat side of an axe?

488
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, like that could actually kill you pretty easily.

489
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh you bet, Bud yeah, oh yeah, for sure, yeah yeah,

490
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:52.480
<v Speaker 2>oh oh yeah for sure.

491
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:55.960
<v Speaker 1>He Yeah.

492
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:59.680
<v Speaker 2>The atmosphere within the commune, I mean understandably turned increasingly

493
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.359
<v Speaker 2>the tile. Uh. It created an environment for fear submission

494
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.960
<v Speaker 2>and further pushed Roach's hold over his whole commune. People

495
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.759
<v Speaker 2>were just terrified. They didn't know what to do, but

496
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 2>all in the same sense, they literally wholeheartedly believed he

497
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:16.759
<v Speaker 2>was the Messiah as well.

498
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Hmmm, that is just like I can only imagine that's

499
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:23.599
<v Speaker 1>just like a complete brain.

500
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:30.559
<v Speaker 2>It's a literal brainwash. Yeah, is what's going on here? Yeah,

501
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:32.799
<v Speaker 2>So if he ever did suspect that any of his

502
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.640
<v Speaker 2>followers were beginning to think of leaving, this is where

503
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:38.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about where they had freedom, right, but they didn't,

504
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.559
<v Speaker 2>but they certainly didn't. That's when things would get really serious.

505
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:48.039
<v Speaker 2>For example, some would get binded with rope, and then

506
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.880
<v Speaker 2>he would hang them from a ceiling and he would

507
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.200
<v Speaker 2>begin to defecate on them while they were hung helplessly.

508
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that is disgusting.

509
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Others were made to prove they were loyal simply because

510
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:05.759
<v Speaker 2>Roche had a suspicion of their loyalty. They were made

511
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 2>to take a sledgehammer to their own hands, their own

512
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:14.480
<v Speaker 2>legs even and rained down on these legs, these bones

513
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.240
<v Speaker 2>until they broke to prove to them, to prove to

514
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Roche that yes, I'm still loyal. So basically Roche is like,

515
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:24.279
<v Speaker 2>I think you're gonna leave, here's a sledgehammer, break your leg.

516
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:26.279
<v Speaker 2>Improve to me you don't want to run.

517
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.160
<v Speaker 1>That doesn't even make any sense.

518
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.319
<v Speaker 2>Right, I know, because like, I mean, like I get

519
00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.359
<v Speaker 2>the concept he is saying. He's like, you are wholeheartedly dedicated,

520
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:38.960
<v Speaker 2>prove to me you don't want to run, so break

521
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:42.039
<v Speaker 2>your own legs. However, that is so fucked up. Yeah,

522
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:42.880
<v Speaker 2>are you kidding me?

523
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:45.519
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't make any sense. And then now he's just

524
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:47.319
<v Speaker 1>gonna have all these injured people.

525
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and not only that, if this person did actually

526
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:56.160
<v Speaker 2>want to run, they're either like I have to break

527
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 2>my leg or this guy could potentially kill me or

528
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.680
<v Speaker 2>do worse to me. Or what if this person didn't

529
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 2>even want to run and he just suspected it. Now

530
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.880
<v Speaker 2>his person has to break their leg to prove that

531
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 2>they are loyal.

532
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, because especially too if he has a bit of

533
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:13.279
<v Speaker 1>a drinking problem. I mean, lots of times I feel

534
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.279
<v Speaker 1>like you make up things or think things when they're

535
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:20.319
<v Speaker 1>not really happening when you're drinking, right, Yeah, so he's

536
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:23.640
<v Speaker 1>probably paranoid and it wasn't even that way.

537
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he was getting very paranoid because he was drinking

538
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:29.599
<v Speaker 2>and he's thinking what his followers are thinking of him,

539
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 2>and he's yeah, he's just getting out of fucking control. Now.

540
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Others were made to sit on top of a hot

541
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:37.160
<v Speaker 2>stove top.

542
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Why.

543
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.359
<v Speaker 2>They were also made to shoot each other in the shoulders.

544
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh.

545
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Then they would smear feces in each other's open cuts

546
00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 2>and wounds.

547
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:47.480
<v Speaker 1>What.

548
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.839
<v Speaker 2>They were also made to even cut off each other's

549
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:57.039
<v Speaker 2>toes with wire cutters, or even eat their own feces.

550
00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Gosh, this is way too much.

551
00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>All of this was used as a form of punishment

552
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.480
<v Speaker 2>and to prove that these individuals were still loyal to

553
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:10.119
<v Speaker 2>the commune and to Roche and we're not intending on running,

554
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry.

555
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.319
<v Speaker 1>But also like the infections and stuff that must be

556
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 1>happening there, like you people have to be severely ill them.

557
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 2>He's clearly trying to get them sick and ill. Rub

558
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.640
<v Speaker 2>shit in your open cut.

559
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:28.559
<v Speaker 1>Gosh, this is too much much.

560
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:30.119
<v Speaker 2>It's fucked up, It's.

561
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Way too much. This like how does someone even think

562
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:33.960
<v Speaker 1>of those things.

563
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.880
<v Speaker 2>He's a sadist, is what he is. Yeah, he is

564
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:44.799
<v Speaker 2>getting off on the torture of these people. He is

565
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.359
<v Speaker 2>a one hundred percent psychopath. I guarantee it.

566
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:53.319
<v Speaker 1>I am so uncomfortable listening to this and like want

567
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:55.519
<v Speaker 1>to leave so bad. There's mail on the counter. I'm like, oh,

568
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:56.920
<v Speaker 1>maybe it's just start opening the mail.

569
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Do imagine I'm just going to read our credit statement kind.

570
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Of disassociate myself from this.

571
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, honestly, I can't blame you. If you want

572
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.119
<v Speaker 2>to disassociate from this is fucked up.

573
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.319
<v Speaker 1>That is just nuts.

574
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean he really didn't draw the line like anywhere. Basically,

575
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.440
<v Speaker 2>it seemed like whatever you could think of to put

576
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.079
<v Speaker 2>these people through, I mean, apart from killing them or

577
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.920
<v Speaker 2>each other, he would make them do this for his

578
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:26.160
<v Speaker 2>own honestly, his own amusement. Though he said it was

579
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:28.440
<v Speaker 2>to prove loyalty. No, it's his own fucking amusement.

580
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 1>No, that is not proving anything.

581
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:31.480
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not.

582
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:34.799
<v Speaker 1>It's proving that he has a serious problem.

583
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, remember this commune is comprised mostly of children

584
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:44.440
<v Speaker 2>at this point, right, the children of the commune were

585
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:48.039
<v Speaker 2>not exempt from any of these horrors. If they needed

586
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:51.119
<v Speaker 2>to be punished, then so be it. If they needed

587
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.160
<v Speaker 2>to prove themselves, then they would need to prove themselves.

588
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:59.359
<v Speaker 2>Sexual assault was also not out of the question either. Again,

589
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.920
<v Speaker 2>including the children. Wow, Now, as if things haven't been

590
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:09.119
<v Speaker 2>bad enough, this part gets me the most. The kids,

591
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:15.640
<v Speaker 2>if they allegedly misbehaved. Now what Roache considered misbehaving, I'm

592
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:18.519
<v Speaker 2>not too sure. I'm pretty sure it could be fucking

593
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 2>sneezing in this general vicinity at this point. Yeah, the

594
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.720
<v Speaker 2>kids would then be held over top of fires, and

595
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.920
<v Speaker 2>at times they would even be stripped completely nude, and

596
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:32.440
<v Speaker 2>then they would be nailed to trees while the rest

597
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.880
<v Speaker 2>of the children were instructed to throw rocks at them

598
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:40.799
<v Speaker 2>and stone them. WHOA, I cannot begin to imagine the

599
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.119
<v Speaker 2>absolute terror of enduring that as an adult, let alone

600
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:45.880
<v Speaker 2>as a child.

601
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:49.880
<v Speaker 1>No, there's no coming back from something like that.

602
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:56.319
<v Speaker 2>Really, No, fuck the person who put anyone through something

603
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.839
<v Speaker 2>like that. Yeah, any of this shit.

604
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.480
<v Speaker 1>It's so hard to listen to stuff like this because

605
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:05.759
<v Speaker 1>it seems like, oh my gosh, like run away, like

606
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.599
<v Speaker 1>get away, But I know that it's so much more

607
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:13.199
<v Speaker 1>complicated than that. To get out of these situations.

608
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.480
<v Speaker 2>It really is. Well, I mean there's Stockholm syndrome, for example,

609
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:19.039
<v Speaker 2>there's not only Stockholm syndrome. But you're fully believe that

610
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.440
<v Speaker 2>this is your savior. Yeah, you're fully believed that this

611
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>is a messiah. There is your religion behind this. It's

612
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 2>a full belief in that there's not having anywhere to go,

613
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.159
<v Speaker 2>not having anyone else to rely on.

614
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean too of their kids that they may

615
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 1>not even know any different too, This is just the

616
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:42.039
<v Speaker 1>way that the world is. Yeah, in their eyes, it

617
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:43.039
<v Speaker 1>totally could be right.

618
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now imagine being one of the adults in this

619
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.800
<v Speaker 2>commune too. Say you are a mother with probably say

620
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:54.239
<v Speaker 2>three or four or five kids in here. The best

621
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>place you think is in the hands of someone who's

622
00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:00.400
<v Speaker 2>going to save your life, your messiah. It'd be the

623
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.000
<v Speaker 2>person you can trust your kids with. Yeah, And if

624
00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:09.360
<v Speaker 2>you can't, then who else can you trust? Oh? Fuck?

625
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:14.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is just I it's very hard to even

626
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.960
<v Speaker 1>think about anyone being in a situation like this. It's

627
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.199
<v Speaker 1>it's just completely devastating.

628
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:20.960
<v Speaker 2>And you're out in the middle of the woods too, right,

629
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.920
<v Speaker 2>It's not like you can just knock on your neighbor's door.

630
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, well, then you're also fearing for your life,

631
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.280
<v Speaker 1>because gosh, if he's capable of these things, what else

632
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:30.199
<v Speaker 1>is he capable of?

633
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, one particular event, a member of the commune

634
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.000
<v Speaker 2>group did the only thing she could to try and

635
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:41.039
<v Speaker 2>keep her child safe from roche. He was in the

636
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 2>middle of a particularly violent outburst, so to save her

637
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.519
<v Speaker 2>child from potential violence to say, she placed the baby

638
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:53.280
<v Speaker 2>outside so it was out of sight, out of mind.

639
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay.

640
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.400
<v Speaker 2>The only problem was it was in the dead of

641
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.679
<v Speaker 2>winter and in the midst of a blizzard, the baby

642
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 2>would succumb to cold and did freeze.

643
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:15.679
<v Speaker 3>So seriously, yes, oh my word, that is something I

644
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:17.199
<v Speaker 3>don't even know how to feel about that.

645
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:21.679
<v Speaker 2>Actually, it's heartbreaking. A mother trying to save her child

646
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:26.320
<v Speaker 2>from danger God inadvertently put it in the path of

647
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:32.280
<v Speaker 2>another danger. Yeah, she did the only thing she.

648
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Could she had she yeah, the ability to do to

649
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:35.360
<v Speaker 1>save this.

650
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Kid, which literally just proves how helpless these people are.

651
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, this is I don't like this brutal.

652
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:49.400
<v Speaker 2>So following the tragic death of this infant, an investigation

653
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:54.199
<v Speaker 2>was prompted in nineteen eighty seven, and fourteen children were

654
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.719
<v Speaker 2>removed from the commune and placed into foster homes.

655
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's something.

656
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Although this intervention could have marked the end of the abuse,

657
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:08.559
<v Speaker 2>it revealed a stark, a stark reality. The Children's Aid

658
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 2>primarily focused on rescuing the children rather than seeking any

659
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:16.559
<v Speaker 2>sort of justice whatsoever. So they just were focused on

660
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:18.679
<v Speaker 2>let's get the kids out of there, and that's it.

661
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.400
<v Speaker 1>That's kind of odd though, because you also think if

662
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:25.119
<v Speaker 1>kids have been treated poorly and have been in danger

663
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:28.199
<v Speaker 1>all this time, that there needs to be consequences of that.

664
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but there wasn't.

665
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:32.800
<v Speaker 1>It was just like, get the kids safe, which is good.

666
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:34.400
<v Speaker 2>That's good, it is good.

667
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:35.920
<v Speaker 1>But also like, there's another.

668
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Step to this, Yeah, there should be reprimendation.

669
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:39.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

670
00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:44.880
<v Speaker 2>But consequently the commune persisted because there wasn't recommendation, and

671
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.559
<v Speaker 2>so it was now no kids, it was just adults

672
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.880
<v Speaker 2>left with two men and eight women, and Roche seemed

673
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.440
<v Speaker 2>to once again up the level of abuse and torture

674
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>within the group with the children taken away.

675
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:00.840
<v Speaker 1>And also these people, I mean, I'm sure a lot

676
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.079
<v Speaker 1>of them, the moms and stuff, are just heartbroken because

677
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:06.079
<v Speaker 1>their kids got taken away from them.

678
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:11.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh exactly right, Yeah, Now, I mean so you're going through.

679
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:17.000
<v Speaker 2>You left your entire life, Okay, the church you were at,

680
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the people you knew, your family members, everything, You left

681
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.199
<v Speaker 2>all of that to follow an individual who you believe

682
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:25.480
<v Speaker 2>was going to save you, and over the course of

683
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:32.519
<v Speaker 2>the last decade, birthed your children, forced you into abuse,

684
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to hurt each other, your own children, other people you

685
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.360
<v Speaker 2>loved and knew, made it so you couldn't talk to

686
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.039
<v Speaker 2>not only people outside the commune that you supposedly knew before,

687
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.920
<v Speaker 2>or sorry that you did know before, but you're not

688
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:47.000
<v Speaker 2>allowed to even talk to people in the commune that

689
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:52.880
<v Speaker 2>you're supposed to know now, and everything, literally everything in

690
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:56.039
<v Speaker 2>your world that you know and rely on, is this

691
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:02.880
<v Speaker 2>sick fuck yeah, that controls every aspect. And now the

692
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:05.960
<v Speaker 2>one thing you did have, the one.

693
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.159
<v Speaker 1>Fucking thing that maybe brought you some joy.

694
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:11.760
<v Speaker 2>The one warm hug, that kiss, anything from your child

695
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:16.559
<v Speaker 2>that you did have gone because of this fucking piece

696
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:17.199
<v Speaker 2>of shit.

697
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Wow, gosh, I can't believe that more wasn't looked into

698
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:26.960
<v Speaker 1>that it was. I mean, I'm thankful the children got removed,

699
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.119
<v Speaker 1>but there there's a little bit more pieces to the

700
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:30.679
<v Speaker 1>puzzle here.

701
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, we've been talking recently on a few different episodes

702
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:36.519
<v Speaker 2>on Failed Justice.

703
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:38.559
<v Speaker 1>System specically, you don't say, and.

704
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:40.760
<v Speaker 2>I think the last one was Canadian as well. Yeah

705
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm not mistaken. So yeah, that fucking sucks.

706
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Maybe maybe it's not so desirable here, but no,

707
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:49.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean everywhere has issues with this sort of stuff.

708
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So with all that taken into account, with everything

709
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:58.840
<v Speaker 2>they've gone through so far, this is where we're going

710
00:39:58.880 --> 00:39:59.599
<v Speaker 2>to end the episode.

711
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Today, I was like, I'm like, no, no, there's a

712
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:05.559
<v Speaker 1>bit more to go here, but okay, you're doing it.

713
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:07.559
<v Speaker 2>This is this is the best place to end it.

714
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:10.440
<v Speaker 2>I did some more research through it. This is where

715
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:15.679
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna stop it from here, Okay, Okay, I mean, yeah,

716
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:16.519
<v Speaker 2>you look pissed.

717
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:20.360
<v Speaker 1>I am pissed. I'm sure I'm not the only one,

718
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:22.360
<v Speaker 1>because it's just like, I feel like we're just really

719
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.719
<v Speaker 1>getting into this and I got questions that need to

720
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:26.360
<v Speaker 1>be answered.

721
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not promising your questions will be answered, cool, but

722
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:34.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm promising to deliver the information as best I can.

723
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Of course, they won't get answered. It's a Ben show,

724
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:37.679
<v Speaker 1>it's a bench.

725
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:38.920
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck does that mean?

726
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.360
<v Speaker 1>You always do ones that don't answer my questions?

727
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.480
<v Speaker 2>You just have questions I can't answer.

728
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.400
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I mostly pick a case based on if,

729
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:49.800
<v Speaker 1>if it's solved, and if like I can sleep at

730
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 1>night knowing you know, well, actually, no, that's not true.

731
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I've done some doozies too. Never mind, never mind.

732
00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:59.199
<v Speaker 2>You like your your cannibal cases.

733
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.400
<v Speaker 1>You don't want, but you have done more cannibal I

734
00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:04.880
<v Speaker 1>bet you, if we went back and counted, you have

735
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.639
<v Speaker 1>done more. No I I if anyone has some spare

736
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:12.760
<v Speaker 1>time out there, I bet you anything that Ben has

737
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:14.960
<v Speaker 1>actually done more cannibal ones than me.

738
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:22.400
<v Speaker 2>No, okay, you one hundred and ten percent? Are you

739
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:24.320
<v Speaker 2>gonna you want to put something on this? You want

740
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to bet this?

741
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:28.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

742
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I see you're not.

743
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm not one hundred percent confident, but I'm like pretty confident.

744
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, you're not confident enough to wager.

745
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:40.480
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I think you've done more. Maybe I'll make

746
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:42.480
<v Speaker 1>time for this. We'll see.

747
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm like ninety nine zero point nine repeater percent sure

748
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 2>you have done more cannibal cases than me.

749
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I mean I do like a good

750
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:55.519
<v Speaker 1>cannibal case. I don't know what that says about me,

751
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 1>but I do.

752
00:41:56.079 --> 00:42:00.440
<v Speaker 2>YEP, I did do one recently with like the like

753
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:03.599
<v Speaker 2>technically he didn't murder the guy really because it was

754
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.800
<v Speaker 2>like a you know, the online thing where they met up.

755
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:09.199
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, yeah, yeah, And I can think of

756
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:11.159
<v Speaker 1>two other ones that you've done too, off the top

757
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:11.519
<v Speaker 1>of my head.

758
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh so I've done three total, where you've probably done

759
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:15.000
<v Speaker 2>like thirty.

760
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Probably not, I bet you. Maybe I've done three as well.

761
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.079
<v Speaker 2>No, you've done more than three. I'm pretty sure you've

762
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:21.280
<v Speaker 2>done like three in a row.

763
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:24.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Yeah, well, I'm going to find another one.

764
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Anyways, this is just a little marital dispute that you

765
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 2>will literally find in the description of this podcast. So

766
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:33.280
<v Speaker 2>just just forewarning you, we have written it down that

767
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:37.159
<v Speaker 2>this will happen. But if you want to hear more

768
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.239
<v Speaker 2>marital disputes, we will talk to you next time The

769
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Wicked and Grim.

770
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, if you also want to hear part.

771
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Two of this, which you do, Yeah, trust me, you're

772
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.800
<v Speaker 2>going to want to hear the rest of this. Also,

773
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:48.639
<v Speaker 2>all the links to our socials are down below. You

774
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:51.920
<v Speaker 2>can find our new YouTube videos. The YouTube link is

775
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:55.239
<v Speaker 2>down there. We're posting stuff with our Tiny Home Chickens

776
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:58.320
<v Speaker 2>or our Wicked Life, just things that we're doing you'll

777
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:00.880
<v Speaker 2>be able to find the link down there. We got Patreon,

778
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.639
<v Speaker 2>we've got Instagram, Facebook, the whole shebang.

779
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we got it all.

780
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how do you spell shebang?

781
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:08.079
<v Speaker 1>Shebang?

782
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.760
<v Speaker 2>That? Well? Thank you for being here, guys. Hopefully you

783
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 2>guys enjoyed this one, and we'll see you for part

784
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.639
<v Speaker 2>two next week. Until then, stay wicked,