Speaker 1: Karen.
Speaker 2: When I say the word EmPATH, what comes to mind feelings, feelings,
Speaker 2: but specifically someone who is an EmPATH?
Speaker 3: What comes to mind?
Speaker 4: Someone who really feels the feelings.
Speaker 3: That's great and others.
Speaker 2: Now, you know, the dictionary defines an EmPATH ready for
Speaker 2: this as a person with the paranormal ability to apprehend
Speaker 2: the mental or emotional state of another individual.
Speaker 3: That's a Kakamami definition. If I've ever heard one for
Speaker 3: someone who feels feelings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think not only is it cock, maybe it's myopic. Right.
Speaker 2: What the word EmPATH actually embodies to me is someone
Speaker 2: that feels others' emotions and can sometimes even be affected
Speaker 2: by them.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Now this is something that you have had to
Speaker 2: contend with all your life, pretty much?
Speaker 4: No, pretty much yet?
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. But has it ever gotten to the
Speaker 2: point where you feel that you're going to lose it?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know about losing it, but it's gotten,
Speaker 1: you know. I've woken up some days just on the
Speaker 1: bridgetiers all day long form.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, where some people sometimes have a really difficult
Speaker 2: time being an EmPATH and not being able to get
Speaker 2: a grip. Luckily, today's guest is going to teach us
Speaker 2: just how to get a grip and, in her words,
Speaker 2: move from hot mess and world class awfuliser to thriving success,
Speaker 2: all while maintaining your empathic abilities.
Speaker 4: All right, I'm ready to not be a hot mess anymore.
Speaker 4: So this is the interview from me.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, here we go.
Speaker 2: My name is Will and unlike Boulder and Scully, both
Speaker 2: want to believe. So we've embarked in a journey of discovery.
Speaker 5: Welcome to Skeptic Medicians Classic. You are listening to classic
Speaker 5: skeptic metaphysicians. Welcome to our version of a walkdown memory
Speaker 5: lane as we present classics from the Skeptic met Physician Library,
Speaker 5: warts and all.
Speaker 4: Well, how old were you the first time you got
Speaker 4: your palm read?
Speaker 2: The first time I got my palm red? I think
Speaker 2: the first time was probably when I was in high
Speaker 2: school at some point, but the paint kind of wore off.
Speaker 1: Ah, you're so funny, Oh my god, didn't shitn't?
Speaker 4: How about the last time.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the last time I got my palm read.
Speaker 2: It was must have been a very long time ago.
Speaker 4: I know I don't remember either. I mean, I know
Speaker 4: I've had it read before.
Speaker 1: I think and then I've gotten some of those magazines
Speaker 1: or books where you try to read your own palm,
Speaker 1: and I was never very good.
Speaker 3: At it, palm reading.
Speaker 4: But it's something that everyone knows about, but not really
Speaker 4: many people have gotten done.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, we did that one episode with the hand analyst.
Speaker 4: Hand that seems different.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: I guess it's more scientific, right, it was love more scientific?
Speaker 2: But what I mean, couldn't it be somewhat similar? And
Speaker 2: in a way that palm readers tell you your future
Speaker 2: beasts and the lines are on your hand and hand
Speaker 2: anauly analysts also tell you what your future is supposed
Speaker 2: to be, or what your life's purpose is supposed to
Speaker 2: be based on your lines in your hands.
Speaker 4: I thought that was her telling us who we were,
Speaker 4: but I guess that's your life purpose too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, your like's purpose is what is what she does?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: So though she uses it in a very scientific way,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that the people in a local carnival
Speaker 2: that take a look at your line tell you how
Speaker 2: many kids you're going to have. That might be a
Speaker 2: little different, because I don't think hand analysis can foretell.
Speaker 3: Your future that way.
Speaker 2: I don't think in terms of tell you how many
Speaker 2: how many kids you're gonna have?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about that, but I do want
Speaker 1: to go get my palm read again. So since we
Speaker 1: can't do that right now, why don't we just listen
Speaker 1: to the interview?
Speaker 3: Sounds like a plane.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Skeptic Metaphysicians. I am Will and I'm Karing.
Speaker 3: We are your hosts.
Speaker 2: As always in today, we have Jennifer Elizabeth Moore with us.
Speaker 2: She's the all of empathic mastery, an intuitive mentor and
Speaker 2: a master trainer for EFT International. She helps empaths, creatives,
Speaker 2: and light workers control the empathic overwhelm that keeps them
Speaker 2: stuck in life and business and to harness their abilities
Speaker 2: to manifest their deepest heart desire.
Speaker 3: Doesn't that sound just wonderful?
Speaker 4: It sounds fantastic.
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to speak with her. Jennifer, thanks so
Speaker 2: much for coming on the show.
Speaker 6: Oh, Will and Karen, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6: And I just have to say, you guys made me
Speaker 6: chuckle listening to you talk about the definition. I didn't
Speaker 6: realize that apprehended. I would be more inclined to say
Speaker 6: if I was going to change one thing in that definition,
Speaker 6: it would be observed would be absorbs all the thoughts, feelings, energy,
Speaker 6: and sensations of the world around us, not apprehends them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was pretty a big surprise for me when
Speaker 2: I researched it and said, no, this can't possibly So
Speaker 2: I looked it up like three four times and yep,
Speaker 2: sure enough, that that's what it says.
Speaker 6: Well, and actually, it strikes me that this may really
Speaker 6: have to do with the origins of the word, because
Speaker 6: the origins of the word came from a science fiction
Speaker 6: story that was written back in the nineteen fifties called
Speaker 6: The Mpath and it was basically about this this special
Speaker 6: subgroup of human beings with extrasensory perception and abilities and
Speaker 6: paranormal abilities who were basically being used by the government
Speaker 6: to apprehend emotions and pick up on what was going on.
Speaker 6: And then the word sort of went from that science
Speaker 6: fiction thing. And I can never remember the name of
Speaker 6: the author.
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry, sir, I.
Speaker 6: Cara call your name, but that was where it started.
Speaker 6: And then you know, we saw the first sort of
Speaker 6: exposure in science fiction and in media with the Star Trek,
Speaker 6: the first generation of Star Trek, where there was the
Speaker 6: episode called Them, and that's when it started to get
Speaker 6: into common language. But it comes it was a word
Speaker 6: that didn't even exist until the nineteen fifties and was
Speaker 6: basically coined by science fiction people. So it's interesting that
Speaker 6: the dictionary is using kind of the science fiction y
Speaker 6: definition of it as opposed to our more sort of
Speaker 6: common understanding of it.
Speaker 2: Now seems to be kind of part for the course
Speaker 2: the way society is go in these days. Right everything
Speaker 2: is based on a science fiction book. At least it
Speaker 2: feels like we're living through a science fiction book right
Speaker 2: now myself.
Speaker 6: Yeah it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we're excited to talk to you because I
Speaker 2: know Karen is really excited to talk to you because
Speaker 2: she has suffered a lot with empathic abilities. She is
Speaker 2: very much affected the emotions of other people and sometimes
Speaker 2: has a hard time snapping out of it. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: I'm speaking for you, Karen, but that's okay, and she
Speaker 2: I think she probably pretty much identifies with that term
Speaker 2: you mentioned, the former hot mess and world class awfulizer.
Speaker 3: But I'm curious what did that look.
Speaker 6: Like for you, So I'm imagining I look very similar
Speaker 6: to Karen's experience with this. For me, as a child,
Speaker 6: I was super sensitive. I was constantly feeling a lot
Speaker 6: of intense feelings. I was in a state of anxiousness
Speaker 6: most of the time, and I had a capacity to
Speaker 6: sort of imagine worst case scenarios. And the thing was
Speaker 6: that I was very frequently feeling out of sorts, even
Speaker 6: if there was nothing going on in my life that
Speaker 6: correlated to that. And so, because you know we're talking,
Speaker 6: I was being raised up. I was born in the
Speaker 6: early sixties, and so we're talking like being a kid
Speaker 6: in the sixties and seventies. This was a point where
Speaker 6: nobody was talking about this stuff. The concept of esp
Speaker 6: or paranormal abilities was very, very fringy and very like
Speaker 6: not many people were talking about it, and so I
Speaker 6: was constantly basically being told that I was overreacting, that
Speaker 6: I was taking it too personally, that I was making
Speaker 6: too big a deal out of it, to get over it,
Speaker 6: to stop worrying about it, and that basically I just
Speaker 6: needed to ignore it and act like everything was okay.
Speaker 6: So I started to imagine, by the time I was
Speaker 6: like eight, nine, ten years old, that there was something
Speaker 6: wrong with me and that I needed to fix I
Speaker 6: needed to fix myself, and so I spent the first
Speaker 6: you know, I don't know sort of second and second
Speaker 6: and third decade of my life really struggling with what's
Speaker 6: wrong with me? And how do and why am.
Speaker 4: I this way?
Speaker 6: Why am I reacting to things so frequently? Why do
Speaker 6: I feel blue for no reason? Why do I feel
Speaker 6: terrified for no reason? Why am I experiencing these horrible nightmares?
Speaker 6: Why am I having these sort of visions of apocalyptic possibilities?
Speaker 6: Like all of the discomfort, and I was just living
Speaker 6: in the state of thinking what's wrong with me? And
Speaker 6: it wasn't until I was in my late twenties early
Speaker 6: thirties when I found this spectacular therapist that I started
Speaker 6: working with was very intuitive and who had done a
Speaker 6: lot of work on her own empathic and psychic abilities,
Speaker 6: who started to help me recognize that nearly all the
Speaker 6: time that I was feeling unexplainable distress, there was a
Speaker 6: correlation with either reconnecting to other people, or being in
Speaker 6: an environment or a situation, or in some cases picking
Speaker 6: up on something that was coming down the pike that
Speaker 6: was going to be happening. And that's when I first
Speaker 6: started to realize that what I was imagining was my
Speaker 6: own personal overwhelming distress was partially mine, but more of
Speaker 6: it was actually coming from the world around me. And
Speaker 6: in my experience, there are people who are empaths, where
Speaker 6: what they pick up on is just the people around them,
Speaker 6: like the thoughts, feelings, energy sensation that are coming from
Speaker 6: the world around them. But then there are those of
Speaker 6: us who are so sensitive that we are also picking
Speaker 6: up on the geopathic stress. We are picking up on
Speaker 6: the climate change emergency, we are picking up on the
Speaker 6: sort of social unrest that is going on. And a
Speaker 6: lot of times not only are we picking up on
Speaker 6: what's going on in the current environment, but often if
Speaker 6: you cannot explain why you're feeling what you're feeling, it
Speaker 6: can also be sort of feeling like ripples coming from
Speaker 6: the future into the present where we pick this up. Now,
Speaker 6: I can't explain why or how we have this capacity
Speaker 6: for premonition, but what I can say is that I
Speaker 6: can say that multiple times in my life, like to
Speaker 6: the point where I can no longer count, there has
Speaker 6: been this sort of sense of the rumble underneath my feet,
Speaker 6: sensing that something is coming, and then maybe anywhere between
Speaker 6: ten days to three weeks later, sometimes a bit longer,
Speaker 6: all of a sudden, this big event happens, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 6: that's what I was picking up on.
Speaker 2: Now as I'm watching you speak, I'm watching Karen not
Speaker 2: her head very much. I am too, so I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure that she would love to have the name of
Speaker 2: your therapist.
Speaker 6: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So my eyes started to tear up, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: she's talking my life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, wild.
Speaker 6: Well, And so often the other piece of it that's
Speaker 6: so hard is that as empaths, we tend to be
Speaker 6: the canaries and the coal mine who are feeling the
Speaker 6: feelings and expressing the things that other people are not
Speaker 6: willing to talk about. And so one of the characteristics
Speaker 6: that I've seen to be pretty common is that we
Speaker 6: often come from families or communities where there's a certain
Speaker 6: bit of like, pay no attention to the man behind
Speaker 6: the curtain, nothing to see here, people move along, all
Speaker 6: of it's okay. And so as very sensitive children, we
Speaker 6: may have had parents who were going through things. And generally,
Speaker 6: even just because of the way people are taught to
Speaker 6: suppress and compartmentalize their emotions, we're not sharing them with us,
Speaker 6: but as sensitive people, we were picking them up. And
Speaker 6: what I've seen so frequently happen is the parents, like
Speaker 6: as children, we sense something, we ask about it, and
Speaker 6: we're basically told at a very very early age, oh no,
Speaker 6: oh no, that's not going on, that's not real, that's
Speaker 6: not happening, even if it actually is. And I've seen
Speaker 6: this very frequently, is that one of the things that
Speaker 6: happens for the EmPATH is that the EmPATH almost becomes
Speaker 6: the designated emmotor or the designated sensor and the designated
Speaker 6: feeler in a family and the stuff that other people
Speaker 6: don't want to deal with, whether it's their trauma, whether
Speaker 6: it's their you know, their addiction, whether it's their sort
Speaker 6: of unreconciled stuff that we feel it and they just
Speaker 6: they're just like, yeah, no, not going there, not dealing
Speaker 6: with it. I actually have a person that I've been
Speaker 6: working with for a number of years whose mother is
Speaker 6: sort of the classic denier, and they were in a
Speaker 6: situation where they were in an accident and the very
Speaker 6: first thing that happened as soon as they like got
Speaker 6: out of got you know, as soon as the accident
Speaker 6: was over, they just jumped up and they're like, I'm fine,
Speaker 6: and you know, and that's and as empouse We're like,
Speaker 6: you are not fine, you are in shock, and you
Speaker 6: are in a state of complete distress. Here.
Speaker 2: We've had a lot of guests who has spoken directly
Speaker 2: to me about stuff. This time, Karen, I told you
Speaker 2: this one is for you because I'm seeing you just
Speaker 2: resonate with every single things that she's saying. I'm seeing
Speaker 2: your eyes water, I'm seeing you, you're nodding you. I'm
Speaker 2: seeing you like blossom up like yes, yeah, someone else
Speaker 2: understands what I'm going through. So I guess what we
Speaker 2: need to figure out now that we know what an
Speaker 2: EmPATH is. And I think Karing you were you were
Speaker 2: told that you were Claire sentient.
Speaker 3: That's clear.
Speaker 2: That's a way of feeling a clear like what typical
Speaker 2: what EmPATH goes by? But how does someone get a grip?
Speaker 6: How does someone get a grip? So I actually so
Speaker 6: I'd love to hold that for a second. Let's put
Speaker 6: a pin in that question because I want to talk
Speaker 6: about the difference between Claire sentience and mpath.
Speaker 3: Oh good, yes, so listen to the podcast longer for
Speaker 3: the answer. That's perfect, good idea.
Speaker 6: Y okay, yeah, okay, So what I want to talk
Speaker 6: about is the thing about you know, all of the
Speaker 6: Claire's the you know, you've got sort of the spectrum
Speaker 6: of psychic ability or paranormal ability. You've got people who
Speaker 6: identify as intuitive, You've got people who identify as psychic.
Speaker 6: You've got people who identify as having one dominant Claire.
Speaker 6: You also have people who identify as mediums, and you
Speaker 6: have people who are empaths. What I have found is
Speaker 6: that in all of these cases we are more open
Speaker 6: and capable of receiving information than the average bear. We
Speaker 6: are receiving and getting stuff. But what I have found,
Speaker 6: and this is what makes being an mpath really challenging,
Speaker 6: is that where an intuitive, a psychic, clairvoyant, clarecentient Claire,
Speaker 6: audience Claire, you know, Claire, cognizant Claire Claire, Gustin's Claire
Speaker 6: alliens whatever. You know, all of these clarity there's one
Speaker 6: of those jukes you are threatening, you know, and and
Speaker 6: you know even like and people who are in mediumship.
Speaker 6: The thing is that in all of these cases they
Speaker 6: can distinguish what is theirs and what is not theirs.
Speaker 6: They know they're picking up information, but they know that
Speaker 6: they're picking up information that is separate from them there's
Speaker 6: discernment m paths. By our very nature experience the data
Speaker 6: as if it's our own. And so not only are
Speaker 6: we picking up the thoughts, feelings, energy and sensations from
Speaker 6: the world around us. A Claires sentient can be picking
Speaker 6: up the thoughts, feeling, sensations, energy from the world around them,
Speaker 6: but they know it's coming from the world around them.
Speaker 6: What makes being an mpath so hard is that we
Speaker 6: experience everything through our own sensory filters, and so what
Speaker 6: happens is the information comes in, but then we interpret
Speaker 6: it through our own body. We interpret it through our
Speaker 6: own thoughts, we interpret it through our own emotions, and
Speaker 6: so we start feeling sad as if it's our sadness.
Speaker 6: We start feeling fear if it's our fear, We start
Speaker 6: feeling rage if it's our rate. We start feeling the
Speaker 6: confinking we're finding the distress like, we will find a
Speaker 6: way to sort of create the scenario or the story,
Speaker 6: to dial it into our own perspective, so that then
Speaker 6: we are perseverating about something that's going on. So like,
Speaker 6: for example, I was at reached a conference a number
Speaker 6: of years ago, and I came there feeling absolutely confident
Speaker 6: and fine and excited to be there, and all of
Speaker 6: a sudden, I was like there for a couple hours
Speaker 6: and I started to feel like a fraud. I started
Speaker 6: to feel like, who do you think you are? I
Speaker 6: started to experience my confidence flagging, and I just really
Speaker 6: started to like feel like insecure and uncomfortable. And all
Speaker 6: of a sudden it dawned on me that I was
Speaker 6: in a room. This was a business retreat for transformational entrepreneurs,
Speaker 6: and I was in a room where there were a
Speaker 6: lot of people who were not succeeding, and where the
Speaker 6: way that this person that the people were leading the
Speaker 6: event were teaching was that they were helping people to
Speaker 6: see their deficiencies and what it was that they needed
Speaker 6: to address. And so there was a whole room of
Speaker 6: people who were all having these like like whack upside
Speaker 6: the head revelations of their inadequacies. But instead of it
Speaker 6: being like, oh wow, I'm feeling all of this or
Speaker 6: sensing all of these people who are really struggling with
Speaker 6: their self esteem because they're realizing, maybe for the first time,
Speaker 6: that they don't have all the answers, I experienced it
Speaker 6: as if it was my problem. And so what I
Speaker 6: have found and this kind of leads us to the
Speaker 6: question you asked, which is, how is EmPATH do we
Speaker 6: deal with this? So the reason that I set up
Speaker 6: the five step system that's in my book is because
Speaker 6: what I found is that a lot of the solutions
Speaker 6: that are being offered to highly sensitive empathic people do
Speaker 6: not cut it. And part of it is like, how
Speaker 6: many times have you been told something like, oh, just
Speaker 6: put up a bubble of light, Like have you ever
Speaker 6: been you know, have you either of you guys ever
Speaker 6: gotten that one? Just put up a bubble of light,
Speaker 6: you'll be okay, or just think positive thoughts, you'll be okay.
Speaker 6: And what I noticed was that the problem is that
Speaker 6: this is this is a step in the process, but
Speaker 6: it is not the first step. And if we are
Speaker 6: already carrying around a whole bunch of distress that we've
Speaker 6: absorbed and taken on from the world around us, the
Speaker 6: problem is that we if you put a bubble of
Speaker 6: light up around that, it's kind of like taking a
Speaker 6: shower and leaving the bathtub like drain in the bottom
Speaker 6: of the tub and letting the dirty water sit there
Speaker 6: and then pulling the curtain back around. It's not going
Speaker 6: to address what you're already carrying inside.
Speaker 3: Wait, that's not what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 6: That's not what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3: Oop.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it's like you drain the bathtub.
Speaker 3: I'll pull the plug, Karen, Sorry.
Speaker 6: Yeah, pull the plug, you know, let it drain. And so,
Speaker 6: what I discovered is that the first step of being
Speaker 6: able to start getting a handle on your empathic ability
Speaker 6: is first just to even recognize that you are an mpath.
Speaker 6: And so the first literally the first step in the
Speaker 6: system is recognized, and there's three levels to recognize. The
Speaker 6: first is just oh, I am an mpath and I
Speaker 6: am affected by these things. The second step is recognizing
Speaker 6: that you are actually feeling something like going like I'm
Speaker 6: feeling really out of sorts, I'm feeling really disoriented, I'm
Speaker 6: feeling really confused right now. And then the third step
Speaker 6: is to start working on recognizing what's mine, what's not mine,
Speaker 6: how much of this is actually coming from within me,
Speaker 6: how much of it is coming from without me. Most
Speaker 6: of the time it's a combination of you know, like
Speaker 6: I'll ask myself is this mine? And I would say
Speaker 6: that ninety five percent of the time the answer is yes,
Speaker 6: and it's also something else. So the first step that
Speaker 6: we need to take is even acknowledging what it means
Speaker 6: to be an EmPATH and instead of like kind of
Speaker 6: buying into the gas lighting and continuing to tell ourselves
Speaker 6: you're making too much of a big deal of it,
Speaker 6: can get over it, stuff worrying about it. Instead, we
Speaker 6: need to validate that we are picking something up, that
Speaker 6: we are sensing something and it is affecting us. So
Speaker 6: that's like the first step when it comes to empathic
Speaker 6: mastery is just to recognize what's going on. And very simply,
Speaker 6: one of the first things that I like to do
Speaker 6: is I like to just put my hands over my
Speaker 6: heart sort of or in the center of my chest,
Speaker 6: but kind of over my sternum, and I just really
Speaker 6: love to ask myself, so is this mine? And just
Speaker 6: asking is this mine? And a lot of times the
Speaker 6: answer will be yes and so, and then I might
Speaker 6: realize that some of my distress is like I mean, lately,
Speaker 6: some of my distress has been I've been really sort
Speaker 6: of having echoes of life during the Reagan administration and
Speaker 6: just kind of like what life was like back then
Speaker 6: when we were, you know, worrying about acid rain, and
Speaker 6: also like worrying about the right sort of a lot
Speaker 6: of different things happening, but I know that there is that,
Speaker 6: and then there's also the reality of all the things
Speaker 6: that are going on in the world around us. So
Speaker 6: recognize as the first step. The second step before we
Speaker 6: can protect ourselves and put up a bubble of light
Speaker 6: is release. We need to release the stuff that is
Speaker 6: not ours and let it go. And that's where me
Speaker 6: as an EFT practitioner and an EFT trainer comes in
Speaker 6: because in the more than three decades of work that
Speaker 6: I've been doing as an energy healer and an intuitive
Speaker 6: I have never ever ever found a tool more effective
Speaker 6: than EFT also known as tapping, but it stands for
Speaker 6: emotional freedom techniques, and honestly, I have yet to find
Speaker 6: something that it doesn't benefit in some way. There are
Speaker 6: also other ways we can release. We can go for walks,
Speaker 6: we can use our breath, we can use journaling. You
Speaker 6: could just you know, throw yourself into a clean bathtub
Speaker 6: and sort of imagine all the extra stuff kind of
Speaker 6: coming out of you you clean bathtub. That idea YU yeah,
Speaker 6: or you pull the you know, you put the plug in,
Speaker 6: you run the clean water and then you pull the
Speaker 6: plug when you're done, and so you know releases. The
Speaker 6: second step, the third step is when we start to
Speaker 6: build up our psychic filters and shields. It's the third
Speaker 6: step is protect. This is when we can start building
Speaker 6: up more robust filters and shields, because if we build
Speaker 6: up filters and shields in a state of distress, the
Speaker 6: distress that is going on internally is almost like it's
Speaker 6: kind of like verdict. It's kind of like lacquer remover
Speaker 6: from the inside. It weakens our filters and shields internally,
Speaker 6: so it compromises our ability to sustain any.
Speaker 3: Kind of protection.
Speaker 6: So we come to the third step of setting up
Speaker 6: our energetic filters and shields, but also logistically having boundaries
Speaker 6: recognizing where are we saying yes when we should be
Speaker 6: saying no, Where are we acquiescing, where are we going along?
Speaker 6: Where are we withholding our truth? Where are we overextending ourselves?
Speaker 6: Where are we overdoing overgiving? Where are we people pleasing?
Speaker 6: Because these are also traits that are very common for
Speaker 6: mpaths because we feel people's disapproval, We feel people's like
Speaker 6: disappointment and we don't and it's uncomfortable, and so we
Speaker 6: will often want to please people so that we don't
Speaker 6: have to feel the discomfort. And that's a whole other
Speaker 6: piece of it, because what I have found is that,
Speaker 6: you know, some people would say that empafs are codependent
Speaker 6: because we are sort of enmeshed or invested in helping people,
Speaker 6: are rescuing people. What I believe is that we feel
Speaker 6: better when other people feel better. So it is absolutely
Speaker 6: understandable that we're going to want to rush into rescue
Speaker 6: and we're going to want to help people to feel better.
Speaker 3: So it's a selfish thing saying it.
Speaker 6: Is a selfish thing to do. Yeah, we have an agenda.
Speaker 6: It's it's very uncomfortable to be around people in distress.
Speaker 6: So you know. So then the fourth step after we
Speaker 6: learn to protect, is connect and I look at that
Speaker 6: as connecting to a power greater than ourselves because I
Speaker 6: really have found that the universe of core is a vacuum.
Speaker 6: If you just clear things out, you get rid of
Speaker 6: the negativity and the toxicity, but you don't replace it
Speaker 6: with anything, then unfortunately, the negative that he is going
Speaker 6: to come back. And so what I have found is
Speaker 6: that we need to start connecting to a force, a power,
Speaker 6: a wisdom, a love that is greater than ourselves. Now,
Speaker 6: I'm not going to tell you what your sense of
Speaker 6: a higher power is. I believe that is an incredibly
Speaker 6: intimate thing, and that is a very very deeply personal thing.
Speaker 6: But in order to not keep on repeating the same
Speaker 6: pattern of taking on all the energy that's coming from
Speaker 6: the world around us, we really need to connect to
Speaker 6: something different. So it's sort of like we're replacing the
Speaker 6: energy with a more positive energy, with a more positive frequency.
Speaker 6: So instead of us running away from things, what we're
Speaker 6: starting to do is we're moving towards our desire and
Speaker 6: moving towards the things that feel good to us. And
Speaker 6: then the final step of empathic mastery, which comes after
Speaker 6: we've really kind of gotten ourselves stabilized and we're not
Speaker 6: wobbling all over the place, is act, which has to
Speaker 6: do with really looking at how are we living in
Speaker 6: our How are we living our life in a way
Speaker 6: that allows us to be of service in the world,
Speaker 6: but also allows us to do the things that keep
Speaker 6: us healthy and thriving, and living in a way that
Speaker 6: reinforces and supports us as opposed to keeps getting us
Speaker 6: into trouble. So long answer but the thing is that
Speaker 6: where some people might have a short, sweet, quick, easy answer,
Speaker 6: you know, I wrote a three hundred and eighty page
Speaker 6: book about what we need to do to deal with this,
Speaker 6: and I have spent the last like multiple decades of
Speaker 6: my life really learning how to navigate it because it
Speaker 6: is complicated.
Speaker 2: Well, we need to take a break, but we'll be
Speaker 2: right back with a lot more of this amazing interview. Hey,
Speaker 2: this is Will with a big question for you. Have
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Speaker 4: Are there any benefits at all?
Speaker 1: Exhausted like, well, okay, I'm not the only one, but man,
Speaker 1: this kind of sucks.
Speaker 6: So I really do believe there are benefits. And what
Speaker 6: I actually believe I actually interestingly channeled an entire book.
Speaker 6: Was the very first time I've ever channeled in an entire book.
Speaker 6: But I channeled an entire book last week. And what
Speaker 6: kept coming through was I was doing this was the
Speaker 6: explanation that that the thing is, we are in the
Speaker 6: first wave of empaths. We are the ones who are
Speaker 6: awakening to our sensitivity in order for this planet, for
Speaker 6: our Actually, the planet is going to survive regardless of
Speaker 6: what we as human beings do, Like the planet will
Speaker 6: find her way and we'll keep going. But us as
Speaker 6: a species, we are on a precarious We're kind of
Speaker 6: on a precarious moving in a direction that like we
Speaker 6: need to.
Speaker 2: Train.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we are making some interesting choices, let's just say.
Speaker 6: And what I what they What my sort of counsel
Speaker 6: explained to me was that there are more and more
Speaker 6: people are awakening to their empathic nature, because in order
Speaker 6: for us to change the course of our behavior as
Speaker 6: a species, we must feel the consequences of our choices,
Speaker 6: and we must understand what that is. And the thing
Speaker 6: is that this idea, one of the things that they
Speaker 6: keep on I keep hearing over and over again, is
Speaker 6: that we are the cells in the body of this earth.
Speaker 6: We are not individuals, We are not separated. We are
Speaker 6: all cells in the body of the earth. We are
Speaker 6: part of a larger organism. And as part of a
Speaker 6: larger organism, we are not actually separate. And so when
Speaker 6: we are feeling ourselves compartmentalized, when we are feeling ourselves
Speaker 6: in this sort of you know, world of human dominion,
Speaker 6: we don't feel the repercussions of our choices and our
Speaker 6: actions as a species. And what I believe is happening
Speaker 6: is that there are those of us who are sort
Speaker 6: of born in the first wave. And I'm imagining, Karen,
Speaker 6: you and I are kind of in that first you know,
Speaker 6: sort of those first really highly sensitive people who are
Speaker 6: sensing what is going on, not just with ourselves, but
Speaker 6: you know, like whether it's like within your environment. It
Speaker 6: could be just in your community or your circle of people,
Speaker 6: it could be in your region, it could be it
Speaker 6: could be just and it can it can sort of
Speaker 6: expand out to globally. But I really believe that we
Speaker 6: are the ones who are feeling what is happening on
Speaker 6: the planet and weird, and part of it is that
Speaker 6: our job is to actually feel it, but also to
Speaker 6: access love and to access hope and possibility. But in
Speaker 6: many ways, it's like we we are here to feel
Speaker 6: what everybody needs to be feeling in order for us
Speaker 6: to turn this around. And what I will say is
Speaker 6: that in my experience, the more comfortable I have gotten
Speaker 6: with feeling my own grief, my own anxious, my own fear,
Speaker 6: and my own disappointment and anger, and the more work
Speaker 6: I've done around sort of reconciling the past wounds, the
Speaker 6: more capable I am of holding space for the pain
Speaker 6: without having to finding myself being submerged in it. So
Speaker 6: but it is It's a tall order because we are
Speaker 6: hidding crisis for portions a as the species right now,
Speaker 6: and you and me, those of us who are feeling it.
Speaker 6: It is not easy by any means, and especially these
Speaker 6: last like two and a half years with the pandemic,
Speaker 6: it has been brutal. And I will just say, Karen,
Speaker 6: if you're not talking to a lot of mpaths, you
Speaker 6: are so not alone, Like this is the experience that
Speaker 6: many of us are having right now.
Speaker 1: And I was so excited because I finally, after however
Speaker 1: many years old, I am learned how to compartmentalize.
Speaker 6: I had to learn how to curate. I learned how
Speaker 6: to curate with this with One of the gifts of
Speaker 6: the pandemic was being able to tap out and say
Speaker 6: I've had it. I spent the first six months of
Speaker 6: the pandemic watching good Witch and Gray's Anatomy. God only
Speaker 6: knows why Grey's Anatomy was safe, but there was something
Speaker 6: about the over the top dramatization of it. But also
Speaker 6: what I realized is that what I love about Grey's
Speaker 6: Anatomy is that it's like it's like there's no there's
Speaker 6: no suppression of emotion. It's like it's all like big, big,
Speaker 6: big feelings all the time. And for mpaths, when people
Speaker 6: own their feelings, we don't have to own them. So
Speaker 6: there was almost like a comfort of being able to
Speaker 6: see people processing their feelings on Grey's Anatomy without having
Speaker 6: to be the person to process the feelings for them.
Speaker 6: And that Goodwitch, which I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 6: watched it, and it's a very adorable Hallmark series about
Speaker 6: this lovely healer named Cassie Nightingale and runs metaphysical shop somewhere,
Speaker 6: like you know, in this lovely little small town in Canada,
Speaker 6: and it just has, like you know, like episode upon
Speaker 6: episode with just very very benign and tame things where
Speaker 6: the villain literally wears a black hat and like you know,
Speaker 6: it's it's so tame, it's just so sweet, and those
Speaker 6: about what I could tolerate. So I also, I would say,
Speaker 6: I learned to curate, not necessarily mental life about to curate.
Speaker 2: So I need to step in here and say this
Speaker 2: episode is not brought to you by a good Witch
Speaker 2: or Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 6: Thank you a lot of as I would say. And
Speaker 6: I am not a doctor, nor I play do I
Speaker 6: play one on TV?
Speaker 2: I want to touch base a little bit on what
Speaker 2: you said, and you touched on this a little bit,
Speaker 2: but when someone probably the best way to say this
Speaker 2: is I've constantly told Karen that I think she's on
Speaker 2: this planet to share love, to spread love, right because
Speaker 2: she is an unbelievably loving human being who cares so
Speaker 2: deeply for people that she has so much love from it.
Speaker 2: But societal norms keep things like that at arm's length.
Speaker 3: But I encourage her to.
Speaker 2: Share that love if someone, if enough of us were
Speaker 2: to go out there and really just screw the as
Speaker 2: title norms and just allow yourself to love others and
Speaker 2: express your love with that tilt the scales a little bit.
Speaker 6: I really believe we are in the pivot right now,
Speaker 6: and that we are in you know, I believe, And
Speaker 6: one of the things that I said in the book
Speaker 6: is that I think we're kind of If you've ever
Speaker 6: heard of Ken Kesey the hundredth Monkey theory and the
Speaker 6: idea of basically the hundred monkey theory was a story
Speaker 6: where there were there was this island and these monkeys
Speaker 6: learned how to wash their potatoes, and so the scientists
Speaker 6: were watching this and then like one tribe of monkeys
Speaker 6: or one group of monkeys would teach their young how
Speaker 6: to do this, and then eventually, sort of these other
Speaker 6: monkeys started to pick it up from the other monkeys
Speaker 6: and they started teaching their young. So eventually the entire
Speaker 6: the entire population of monkeys on this one island were
Speaker 6: washing their potatoes. And then all of a sudden, these
Speaker 6: other scientists who are sort of observing this or observing
Speaker 6: monkeys in another island separate from this, starting to notice
Speaker 6: this phenomenon where all of a sudden, these other monkeys
Speaker 6: were washing the potatoes. And so the theory of the
Speaker 6: hundredth monkey is that when we get to critical mass
Speaker 6: in terms of a consciousness or an awareness, there will
Speaker 6: be a quantum shift where suddenly the under the monkey
Speaker 6: sort of flips the switch and everybody has this access
Speaker 6: to this thing. My theory is that, you know, Karen
Speaker 6: and I are in the eighty seventh monkey category. We
Speaker 6: are getting there, but as a species, we haven't quite
Speaker 6: hit critical mess. And our job is absolutely to be
Speaker 6: turning the switch and to be doing the things that
Speaker 6: not everybody is doing yet, which is expressing love. And
Speaker 6: I want to speak a little bit more about why
Speaker 6: do we have this ability. The thing about an mpath
Speaker 6: is that we have both the ability to receive, but
Speaker 6: we also have the ability to broadcast and beam. And
Speaker 6: so when we are taking on the thoughts, feelings, energy,
Speaker 6: sensation of the world around us, and we're spinning out
Speaker 6: with the misery of it, it is very, very very
Speaker 6: hard to do anything else. But as we learn how
Speaker 6: to release this, and we learn how to find our
Speaker 6: center and sort of recalibrate within, what we can do
Speaker 6: is we can start to become beacons for love, for compassion,
Speaker 6: for hope, and for healing, and we can actually start
Speaker 6: broadcasting a signal instead of being part of the problem
Speaker 6: where we're just absorbing and then amplifying the distress.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting, and I'm just kind of thinking of
Speaker 1: all my life experiences and how many people are probably
Speaker 1: in the same boat that I'm in that are just
Speaker 1: kind of opening up or I'm not even really realizing
Speaker 1: this now, and so many things are clicking. For example,
Speaker 1: like my parents split up when I was very young,
Speaker 1: but my father was very much you know, don't make
Speaker 1: a big deal, don't be so emotional, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But when anybody, including my father, even now had any
Speaker 1: sort of life issues, who's the one they talk to
Speaker 1: and who's the one that hangs up the phone crying?
Speaker 1: And so I was thinking about you know all you're
Speaker 1: speaking and just how you know it shouldn't only be
Speaker 1: the sadness that you hold. I'm like, well, and this
Speaker 1: is not like I'm not tooting my own horn, but
Speaker 1: I have been told hundreds of times that when I
Speaker 1: walk into a room, it lightens up, that I bring
Speaker 1: happiness and joy, and I think maybe I'm just getting
Speaker 1: those little bits in everybody and just reflecting that out
Speaker 1: that it's not me, it's their own joy that they're saying.
Speaker 2: Nope, too, dead horn, baby, because you have a light
Speaker 2: about you. You aren't on this planet and you're bringing
Speaker 2: that energy with you wherever you go.
Speaker 6: I can absolutely see it. And this is my first
Speaker 6: meeting with you, Karen, but I can feel your glorious
Speaker 6: heart and I can completely see your beautiful light.
Speaker 2: That have confirmed it six people maybe have confirmed it,
Speaker 2: now a lot of people have confirmed it. So eventually
Speaker 2: you're going to decide to believe what we're all telling you.
Speaker 3: Eventually.
Speaker 6: Well, and you know, you say something that I think
Speaker 6: is so incredibly important because so often we really do
Speaker 6: have to fake it till we make it an act,
Speaker 6: as if we have to take the words of the
Speaker 6: people we love at face the people that we love
Speaker 6: and trust, not the ones who are gaslighting us, but
Speaker 6: the ones who we really do love and trust at
Speaker 6: face value, and go if they believe in me, maybe
Speaker 6: they can see something that I am too distressed to
Speaker 6: see right now, but maybe I can go with that
Speaker 6: and just really living with knowing that we are enough,
Speaker 6: that we are a beacon for love, that we do
Speaker 6: have a mission, that we are here and actually, and
Speaker 6: recently I've been I've been starting to do what I'm
Speaker 6: calling the Fairy Godmother Apprenticeship program with a number of
Speaker 6: people who I've been working with and mentoring, and where
Speaker 6: it's all about not just fixing the problems and focusing
Speaker 6: on the problems, but taking it to the next level,
Speaker 6: which is how do we share joy in a world
Speaker 6: that is so focused on so externally focused on issues
Speaker 6: and problems. And I think that's another part of it,
Speaker 6: is like we do. While I am not a fan
Speaker 6: of spiritual bypassing or lightwashing or ignoring the major social
Speaker 6: issues that are going on in our planet right now,
Speaker 6: I do think that we have a tendency as a
Speaker 6: species to perseverate on all the wrong things and not
Speaker 6: give ourselves permission to feel pleasure, to play, to have fun,
Speaker 6: to go for delight, and if anything, Like Karen, your
Speaker 6: job in my job is to radiate love and to
Speaker 6: share joy, to share a pleasure, to share fun, and
Speaker 6: to help people flip the switch so that they're not
Speaker 6: just sinking in despair because you know, I've been really
Speaker 6: getting the sense of like, At the same time that
Speaker 6: we have people who are aged in just abs salute,
Speaker 6: abject terror, and agony, we also have a mother who
Speaker 6: has just been handed her brand new baby, who is
Speaker 6: falling in love for the first time. We have people
Speaker 6: who are having their first like they have fallen in
Speaker 6: love and they're you know, haven't They're getting it on
Speaker 6: for the first time, and that ecstatic reunion of like
Speaker 6: I just found my boo, I just connected. We have
Speaker 6: people who are performers, who are musicians, who are out
Speaker 6: in the world in stadiums experiencing the ecstasy of an
Speaker 6: entire stadium of thousands and thousands and thousands of people
Speaker 6: grooving with their music and feeling it. We have people
Speaker 6: who are dancing. We have you know, football players and
Speaker 6: other athletes who are doing their optimum performance, who are
Speaker 6: winning awards and championships, and who are just elated. All
Speaker 6: of this is going on at the same time. And
Speaker 6: yet so as a society, you know, turn on the
Speaker 6: news and find out what's wrong. And so I think
Speaker 6: that for those of us who are highly sensitive empathic,
Speaker 6: it's really important to start trying to feel the joy
Speaker 6: that is in the world as well as feeling or
Speaker 6: acknowledging the sorrow.
Speaker 3: Wow, there's so much talk about on this topic.
Speaker 6: No, I know, this is one of the conversations that
Speaker 6: can go on and on.
Speaker 2: And you're right before we start recording, You're like, we're
Speaker 2: not gonna have any problem.
Speaker 3: Filling out the time. So you're absolutely right. We might
Speaker 3: have to go along. But I do want to talk
Speaker 3: about your book, because your book brings a.
Speaker 2: Lot of practical, tactical knowledge and tips on how to
Speaker 2: handle this stuff.
Speaker 3: Again one more times called empathic mastery, but it is.
Speaker 6: Called empathic mastery a five step system to go from
Speaker 6: emotional hot mess thriving success.
Speaker 2: And in the book you really do a deep dive
Speaker 2: on each one of those steps. I mean it's a
Speaker 2: wonderful book. But one of the things that I've heard
Speaker 2: you mentioned as I was researching is that you should
Speaker 2: try to stay away from processed sugar. Yes, what does
Speaker 2: that have to do with empathic abilities?
Speaker 6: Okay, so sugar, this is so let me see if
Speaker 6: I can try it. So, sugar is an endocrine disruptor
Speaker 6: in the sense that you know, insulin is a hormone,
Speaker 6: and when we are consuming large amounts of carbohydrate, we
Speaker 6: are basically disrupting our hormones. And if you are a
Speaker 6: human being, but especially if you're female, and you've ever
Speaker 6: experienced PMS, you know how much our hormones impact us.
Speaker 3: Now, hold on, don you I have experienced it, but
Speaker 3: from the other side.
Speaker 6: Of the Yes, but you know too, you know too.
Speaker 6: And the thing is that there are you know, we
Speaker 6: don't necessarily think about insulin as a hormone. We don't
Speaker 6: necessarily think of but when we are, sugar is something
Speaker 6: that will cause our blood our blood sugar. It will
Speaker 6: cause our system to spike with really high blood sugar
Speaker 6: and then crash with really low blood sugar. And our
Speaker 6: bodies are not meant to process a lot of sugar.
Speaker 6: Our bodies like as a species, we didn't like even fruits.
Speaker 6: We're not really like easy to access like up until recently.
Speaker 6: Sugar is a very modern concept. It was a very
Speaker 6: very special treat until very very recently. And the problem
Speaker 6: is that sugar influences and affects our blood. Sugar our
Speaker 6: and it deeply, deeply imp our mood. But it also
Speaker 6: compromises the bacteria the flora that grows in our gut.
Speaker 6: And essentially there is more understanding that our gut has
Speaker 6: the same cellular makeup as the gray matter of our brain.
Speaker 6: And there's a sort of you know when people talk
Speaker 6: about trusting your gut, that's because there's a deep connection
Speaker 6: between the gut. We're pointing at my head. There's a
Speaker 6: deep connection between the gut and the brain.
Speaker 3: That's a strong connection there.
Speaker 6: That's strong connection there. And the thing is that when
Speaker 6: we are food, we feed our gut unfavorable foods that
Speaker 6: contribute to or help unfavorable flora to grow in our gut.
Speaker 6: We develop what it's called gut dyspiosis. And as we
Speaker 6: develop gut dyspiosis, what happens is we throw our entire
Speaker 6: system out of whack and we cause we compromise the
Speaker 6: integrity and the literal sort of like filtering system of
Speaker 6: our internal gut. And so, if you have ever heard
Speaker 6: the saying in metaphysics as above so below or as
Speaker 6: within so without, when we compromise the the filters and
Speaker 6: the sort of extremely resilient internal lining of our gut,
Speaker 6: we are not only compromising our internal gut, we are
Speaker 6: also compromising our external filters and shields. So, sugar is
Speaker 6: something that affects us deeply emotionally, and it affects us
Speaker 6: and it affects us also very much physically. And so
Speaker 6: what I have found is that while there certainly are
Speaker 6: exceptions to the rule, and there are some mpaths who
Speaker 6: are way more physically resilient and able to kind of
Speaker 6: get away with it, or they're just so much younger
Speaker 6: that their body has not reached that sort of critical mass.
Speaker 6: But in my experience, once you start talking about people
Speaker 6: getting into their mid twenties and beyond, the more sugar
Speaker 6: you concern consume, or the more and the more sort
Speaker 6: of processed carbohydrates you consume, because you know, like whitebread
Speaker 6: turns into sugar, the more compromised your gut becomes, and
Speaker 6: the more compromised, your entire hormonal system becomes, and the
Speaker 6: more disregulated one becomes. So I have found that stopping
Speaker 6: sugar is actually one of the very it's it's one
Speaker 6: of the most important things we can do. But what
Speaker 6: I will say is that if you do not have
Speaker 6: healthy alternatives in place, and you just go cold turkey.
Speaker 6: In the same way if you ever quit smoking, and
Speaker 6: you know that, like when you quit smoking, it's sort
Speaker 6: of like all your stuff comes up. If you've been
Speaker 6: using sugar to self sued, then the challenge is that
Speaker 6: unless you've got some kind of other way to take
Speaker 6: care of yourself and support yourself, it is going to
Speaker 6: really excuse can I say, use it, use it letter word.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's going to really suck.
Speaker 6: It's gonna really suck, like to okay, I but I
Speaker 6: just wanted to be sure that you know, I could
Speaker 6: believe me, I could drop the fom all over the place. Actually,
Speaker 6: I have a friend who is a friend who crochetes
Speaker 6: bombs with the word F on them. So I'm getting
Speaker 6: a set of purple crocheted f bombs during podcasts and
Speaker 6: Facebook lives and things like that.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Well, then that gives you a roadmap Cairn right for
Speaker 2: how you need to live your life moving forward.
Speaker 3: You've got the five steps.
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about how to get
Speaker 2: a grip on stuff and pathic mastery, the book is fantastic.
Speaker 2: It's a nobs tell it like it is guide written
Speaker 2: specifically band paths.
Speaker 4: I don't have to figure out what it's saying.
Speaker 3: No, Nope, tell me directly.
Speaker 2: It is a nobs tell it like it is and
Speaker 2: it's written by an mpath who cracked the code on
Speaker 2: how to handle it. So if you recognize any of
Speaker 2: this in you, I would urge you to check out
Speaker 2: Jennifer's book. We're going to add a direct link to
Speaker 2: it in our show notes. So if you're listening to
Speaker 2: this on the radio, all you need to do is
Speaker 2: go to Skeptic Metaphysition dot com, go to her episode
Speaker 2: page and just click the link.
Speaker 3: It'll be that easy for you to find it.
Speaker 2: If you're listening it to on your phone right now,
Speaker 2: hit the little I on the corner that gives you
Speaker 2: the show notes and you will find the link there.
Speaker 2: You don't even need to leave your couch. So you
Speaker 2: have given us so much to think about. I know,
Speaker 2: Karen her life has now been changed. So thank you
Speaker 2: so much for taking the time to share your expertise
Speaker 2: with us, because it's something that we've been wanting to
Speaker 2: tackle for a long time and something that I think
Speaker 2: will help Karen and a lot of folks who are
Speaker 2: listening right now at all crazy.
Speaker 6: You're not yeah crazy. If I can just say, I'd
Speaker 6: love to say two things. One is that in addition
Speaker 6: to the book, I also have a free Facebook group
Speaker 6: where I offer a lot of support. I teach master classes,
Speaker 6: and you can learn more about that by going over
Speaker 6: with the show notes and everything, because I would really
Speaker 6: you know, my mission is to help other highly sensitive,
Speaker 6: empathic people to understand what they are, why they feel
Speaker 6: the way they feel, and to really turn it around.
Speaker 6: And I just want to say, Karen, my heart, I
Speaker 6: know what you I really can identify and relate with
Speaker 6: what you're going through, and that it does get better.
Speaker 6: I promise it can get better. You are not crazy,
Speaker 6: You are not making stuff up. You are and you
Speaker 6: are like and for a reason. You are here for
Speaker 6: a reason, and you are part and I really believe
Speaker 6: that you and the rest of us, and you know,
Speaker 6: the empathic tribe that is rising up in the world
Speaker 6: that we are here to be part of the solution
Speaker 6: and to help birth a new world where things can
Speaker 6: be better. So you guys, thank you so much for
Speaker 6: having me on this time is whizzed by Sure. Oh
Speaker 6: my god, what an amazing conversation. It has been such
Speaker 6: a pleasure to talk with you.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we feel exactly the same way, and we are
Speaker 2: going to add all of those links directly on our
Speaker 2: show notes so that you have a way to connect
Speaker 2: not just find her book, but also connect directly with Jennifer,
Speaker 2: whether it's her Facebook group or on her social media accounts.
Speaker 2: Will have all those links on our show notes, so
Speaker 2: feel fee to click goes and connect with her directly. Jennifer,
Speaker 2: once again, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2: We look forward to maintaining contact with the Petens.
Speaker 6: Thank you absolutely, yes, please.
Speaker 3: A huge thank you to you.
Speaker 2: We know that there are tons of options out there,
Speaker 2: and having you decide to come along on our journey
Speaker 2: of discovery with us is an absolute honor for us.
Speaker 3: We hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have.
Speaker 2: If you did and you feel called to give back,
Speaker 2: we invite you to visit our website at Skepticmanaphysition dot com,
Speaker 2: where you can donate to the show or subscribe as
Speaker 2: a member through our buy me a Coffee campaign.
Speaker 3: Your support will go a.
Speaker 2: Long way towards allowing Karen and I to bring you
Speaker 2: these wonderful conversations and teachings in more and.
Speaker 3: More robust ways.
Speaker 2: Now that's all for now, we will see you on
Speaker 2: the next episode of The Skeptic Metaphysician.
Speaker 3: Until then, take care,