Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Psychic Teachers. I'm your host Samantha.
Speaker 2: Fay, and I'm dere Bowen, and today we're.
Speaker 1: Going to talk about something kind of scary, a little creepy,
Speaker 1: and I think it's just something we all need to
Speaker 1: consider when we're entering into intuitive development. So we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about the possibility that earth bound spirits
Speaker 1: could be using channelers and mediums to feed off their
Speaker 1: energy and maintain a connection to Earth. I just finished
Speaker 1: a book, Deb, I've been talking to you about it.
Speaker 1: I know a lot called The Siren Call of Hungry
Speaker 1: Ghost by Joe Fisher, and this is exactly what that
Speaker 1: book is about. But before we dive in, do you
Speaker 1: want to tell people what a hungry ghost is?
Speaker 2: Yes? I will do that, but can I just do
Speaker 2: the usual? Deb doesn't like this stuff, navy off it,
Speaker 2: but I think it's important. I mean, I do joking aside,
Speaker 2: So let me tell you what a hungry ghost is.
Speaker 2: A hungry ghost is a supernatural being characterized by an insatiable,
Speaker 2: endless craving and a tormented existence. Yikes. They are said
Speaker 2: to have huge, bloated bellies and tiny, needle thin necks,
Speaker 2: meaning that they can never swallow enough to satisfy their
Speaker 2: intense hunger and thirst. According to Buddhist tradition, this one
Speaker 2: realm of the other side where hungry ghosts go. It's
Speaker 2: a little like a level above hell, but not much.
Speaker 2: This is where greedy, cruel, truly negative people go, and
Speaker 2: their hunger represents their spiritual hunger. They have to stay
Speaker 2: in this level until they burned off their karma.
Speaker 1: Think about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to tell you that I don't know
Speaker 2: a great deal about Buddhism. I really can't begin to
Speaker 2: say I know a lot. But I have never heard
Speaker 2: that concept in the Buddhist tradition before. This is brand
Speaker 2: new information to me.
Speaker 1: Oh really, it's pretty common, I promise you. But I
Speaker 1: think the idea is, like I said at the beginning,
Speaker 1: kind of creepy.
Speaker 2: It's very creepy. And half of them have a physical description. Yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of weird.
Speaker 1: Kind of weird. But when Joe Fisher started on this journey,
Speaker 1: hungry ghosts were the last thing on his mind. He
Speaker 1: was just looking for a great story. Joe was an
Speaker 1: award winning journalist. In fact, he was the youngest journalist
Speaker 1: ever in his city. He was an investigative writer with
Speaker 1: a passion for metaphysical mysteries, and read loved him. His
Speaker 1: books sold over a million copies in twenty two languages.
Speaker 1: He was born and educated in England, moved to Canada
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one and had dual citizenship. After he
Speaker 1: moved to Canada, he was a reporter for the Toronto
Speaker 1: Sun and the Toronto Star, and he broke up his
Speaker 1: newsroom life with a lot of long trips. He went
Speaker 1: to Greece, Ireland, Ecuador, Morocco, Peru, everywhere. In nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 1: Fischer stepped away from daily journalism to focus on books
Speaker 1: and freelance writing. He traveled constantly. He went everywhere Australia Antarctica,
Speaker 1: and his bylines appeared everywhere, from the National Post and
Speaker 1: the Globe and Mail to Outpost Equinox, and on and on.
Speaker 1: His books, including As I Said, The Siren Call of
Speaker 1: Hungry Ghost, but also Life Between Life and the Case
Speaker 1: for Reincarnation and Predictions, became staples of contemporary metaphysical literature.
Speaker 1: The Case for Reincarnation even featured a preface written by
Speaker 1: the Dali Lama. So he was clearly successful and was
Speaker 1: also known as quite the ladies man. He was good looking, smart, romantic,
Speaker 1: and looking for his soulmate. This will be important later,
Speaker 1: But he wasn't a player. His sister said in an
Speaker 1: interview that he maintained his friendships with all his past girlfriends. Okay,
Speaker 1: so now it's nineteen eighty four. Joe's book on reincarnation
Speaker 1: had just come out and was a big hit, and
Speaker 1: this is when he gets a letter from a woman
Speaker 1: named Aviva Newman. She said she had invertently become a
Speaker 1: mouthpiece for discarnate energies who presented as spirit guides. Aviva
Speaker 1: wrote in the letter that the spirits often talked about reincarnation,
Speaker 1: and these guides were living in a state between lives.
Speaker 1: Joe said, the tone of Aviva's letter assured me that
Speaker 1: she wasn't a new age groupie with metaphysical stars in
Speaker 1: her eyes, believing nothing beyond the physical sciences. She worked
Speaker 1: as a laboratory technician and had always scoffed at psychic phenomenon. Indeed,
Speaker 1: she felt vaguely troubled about being a channel for other beings.
Speaker 1: She was writing to me, she said, because she was
Speaker 1: looking for a rational explanation for this irrational turn of events.
Speaker 1: I'm a normal person with normal interest, she declared, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to be regarded as a candidate for
Speaker 1: a psychiatric ward. Aviva concluded her letter with a formal invitation.
Speaker 1: So of course Joe's intrigued and decides to meet her.
Speaker 2: So, of course, jose in trigue. She has an interesting
Speaker 2: story of Eva does. She was diagnosed with leukemia and
Speaker 2: was obviously dealing with a lot of pain. She had
Speaker 2: a neighbor and a friend named Roger Bellancourt, who was
Speaker 2: also a hypnosis He had offered to hypnotize Viva in
Speaker 2: order to administer corrective medical suggestions to her subconscious mind.
Speaker 2: Aviva was an atheist. She didn't believe in anything, but
Speaker 2: decided that it couldn't hurt so together and with the
Speaker 2: help of her doctor, they wrote nine carefully worded commands
Speaker 2: that Roger would repeat while she was in a trance.
Speaker 2: Apparently it worked. She was getting better, and then after
Speaker 2: a few months something happened. Aviva started speaking in a
Speaker 2: man's voice with an English accent, and soon more spirits
Speaker 2: were coming through. Eventually, people started to gather at her
Speaker 2: home on Friday nights to meet their spirit guides.
Speaker 1: So that's her story, and that's how she says she
Speaker 1: kind of stumbled into becoming a channeler. When Joe went
Speaker 1: over and met her, he writes that Aviva told him,
Speaker 1: I've never believed in the so called psychic world. I've
Speaker 1: never had a psychic reading that's come true. I think
Speaker 1: astrology's absolute crap, and I've got no time for anything
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be paranormal. Look at my library and
Speaker 1: Joe turns around to the bookcase and sees its crammed
Speaker 1: with volumes on the works of Karl Marx and Lenin.
Speaker 1: She says, I think that shows you where I stand,
Speaker 1: and it's not some airy, fairy world between incarnations. So
Speaker 1: Joe's intrigued and he starts to attend these weekly sessions.
Speaker 1: He's really impressed by the voices and personalities coming through
Speaker 1: and how the information is validated by everyone present. Through
Speaker 1: Aviva spoke her guide, a man named Russell who claimed
Speaker 1: to be a sheep farmer from nineteenth century Yorkshire, England.
Speaker 1: Through Aviva, these guides said there were two types of humans,
Speaker 1: souls and entities, and I thought this was so weird.
Speaker 1: So all of the guides speaking through Aviva said that
Speaker 1: we as humans are divided into souls and entities. Souls
Speaker 1: are said to be created from desire, while entities were
Speaker 1: born of knowledge. There's a big difference here, and it
Speaker 1: was clearly better to be an entity rather than a soul.
Speaker 2: That's new information, that's new.
Speaker 1: And it instantly this came up in like I don't know,
Speaker 1: chapter three, and I instantly had alarm bells going off
Speaker 1: because any alleged enlightened being who's already dividing groups that
Speaker 1: should be a big red flag, don't you think?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So of course Joe asks the Guides if he's a
Speaker 1: soul or an entity, and what a surprise. The Guides
Speaker 1: tell him, You're an entity. You have reasonable power as
Speaker 1: an entity. You have in part begun some forward development,
Speaker 1: although not on a conscious level. Most of your forward
Speaker 1: development has been on what you would call the subconscious level.
Speaker 1: You have never been a soul. You were always an
Speaker 1: entity created from knowledge, from the pool of knowledge, which
Speaker 1: has been spoken of many times in many sessions.
Speaker 2: Now this is the Guide talking to Joe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, isn't that weird?
Speaker 2: Yeah it is weird.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would think it'd be better to be
Speaker 1: a soul.
Speaker 2: I think there shouldn't be this division.
Speaker 1: And that too. Yeah. On top of this, the guides
Speaker 1: didn't like being called guides or spirits. They would get
Speaker 1: upset when someone in the group referred to them that way. Instead,
Speaker 1: they wanted to be seen as just regular people, temporarily
Speaker 1: without a body. And then Joe meets his guide. So basically,
Speaker 1: I hope I'm explaining this well. People will go to
Speaker 1: Aviva's house, her neighbor hypnotist friend would put her in
Speaker 1: a trance, and then different guides who were connected to
Speaker 1: the people who showed up would speak through her. So
Speaker 1: Joe's at one of these sessions and he meets his guide,
Speaker 1: and what do you know, she's a beautiful young Greek
Speaker 1: woman who claims to be his soulmate. She says her
Speaker 1: name is Philippa and that she and Joel have spent
Speaker 1: many lifetimes together, always trying to be together, but some tragedy,
Speaker 1: you know, like war or disputing families, always kept them apart.
Speaker 1: It's like a Hallmark movie. I mean, that was my
Speaker 1: red flag number two.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is a big red flag. And you know,
Speaker 2: this reminds me of the whole trance medium phenomenon. That
Speaker 2: happened at the turn of the nineteen hundreds, that you know,
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the actoplasm to come out of closem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I should have said this more specifically. This book
Speaker 1: was written in nineteen ninety and so this is all
Speaker 1: around that time when channeling and the Seth books and
Speaker 1: all of that was just starting and really hitting its peak.
Speaker 1: So he was doing this research from eighty three to
Speaker 1: eighty seven and then there was a lot Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think it's important to ground it in that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Through Aviva, Philippa tells Joe all sorts of stuff about himself,
Speaker 1: and it's all true and accurate, and it's not stuff
Speaker 1: like you were boarded this hospital at this time. It's
Speaker 1: soul stuff. It's personal, deep emotions that he's been feeling
Speaker 1: his whole life, and so he feels like he's being
Speaker 1: seen and understood for the first time. He writes how
Speaker 1: suddenly his girlfriend feels like a stranger to him. So
Speaker 1: back he goes to Aviva week after week to hear
Speaker 1: from his Philippa. Philippa tells him she wants more contact
Speaker 1: with him too. She says, to Joe, your knowledge and
Speaker 1: your self discipline and your style of thought processes make
Speaker 1: you a good candidate for communication on a direct level,
Speaker 1: then you can receive direction from me. Joe was all
Speaker 1: in and asked her how he could do this. Philip
Speaker 1: tells me to spend a good part of each morning
Speaker 1: thinking about her. She insists that he repeats this every morning,
Speaker 1: at the same time each day. This way, she explained,
Speaker 1: she could link in with his energy and establish thought
Speaker 1: patterns upon him. He did as she said, but it
Speaker 1: was almost a year before he could sense her. Sometimes
Speaker 1: he'd see flashes of their life together in Greece, and
Speaker 1: he always heard a buzzing in his ears when she
Speaker 1: was around him. So again, I thought that was interesting
Speaker 1: because a lot of writers, for example, will say, you've
Speaker 1: got to meet the muse at the same time every day.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ray Bradberry wrote a whole essay on that,
Speaker 1: And so there is something to this consistency of showing up.
Speaker 1: It's just the way she tells him. It just I
Speaker 1: don't know, it kind of reeks of what's that stage
Speaker 1: before possession obsession?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: What, I don't know this is true, but doesn't that
Speaker 1: sound kind of weird to you? Like I'd like to
Speaker 1: communicate with you more direct.
Speaker 2: This is beginning to feel really bizarre. I mean it
Speaker 2: was bizarre to begin with that this disembodied entity, so
Speaker 2: whatever she is, knows all the steep stuff about him,
Speaker 2: or at least appears to. And now she wants more contact.
Speaker 2: Woo boo. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then things start getting even worse with his girlfriend, Rachel.
Speaker 1: He writes, I learned to mention Philippa as little as
Speaker 1: possible in her presence. Perhaps she questioned my loyalty, sensing
Speaker 1: my intraction to this unearthly lover of old. Anyway, Rachel
Speaker 1: no more than tolerated my striving for communion with the
Speaker 1: next world, and over a period of several months, her
Speaker 1: pain forbearance turned imperceptibly into withdrawal. Not that I deserved
Speaker 1: any better. The guide's gripping expositions of life beyond the
Speaker 1: body left me increasingly preoccupied with the non material universe
Speaker 1: and less and less willing to be able to respond
Speaker 1: to Rachel on a basic human level. He continues, There
Speaker 1: seemed little I could do to prevent our feelings for
Speaker 1: one another from drifting into cold storage. Philippa's remarkable understanding
Speaker 1: and empathy cushioned my progressive alienation from Rachel, my friends,
Speaker 1: and the world around me. In any case, I told
Speaker 1: myself personal happiness in the current existence was a small
Speaker 1: sacrifice to make for one's immortal welfare. Besides, I was
Speaker 1: as happy as I could reasonably expect to be. If
Speaker 1: life was sometimes distressing, it was because Rachel and I
Speaker 1: were always arguing. So they break up, and Joe doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to care. He says, Philippa was my quest and
Speaker 1: getting to know my guide. I was honing my immortal
Speaker 1: destiny while preparing for the time when we could be
Speaker 1: together once more in the between life state. So again,
Speaker 1: this to me does seem like alienation obsession, like those
Speaker 1: stages before someone completely takes over your will.
Speaker 2: When you just said what you said, my next thought
Speaker 2: was a police, don't tell me. He's going to kill
Speaker 2: himself so he can go be in the afterlife. But
Speaker 2: this will be.
Speaker 1: We haven't gotten to the rest of his story, dub,
Speaker 1: so let's not okay.
Speaker 2: Do that? Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So by this time, more and more people are showing
Speaker 1: up to Aviva's to witness her channeling her guide. Russell
Speaker 1: would point out which of the new attendees were entities
Speaker 1: and which were souls, and if you were lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be an entity, Russell would tell you who your
Speaker 1: own spirit guide was. If you were a soul, well
Speaker 1: then he couldn't help you. So as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: the people who were souls, they would just leave because
Speaker 1: why say, if they can't get any information. And so
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if these quote unquote guides are a hungry
Speaker 1: ghost or whatever. They were were seeing that some of
Speaker 1: the people were inclined to be skeptical or at least discerning,
Speaker 1: and they quickly were like, oh, you're a soul, We
Speaker 1: can't communicate with you, only entities.
Speaker 2: Oh you been absolutely.
Speaker 1: After being told about their guides and maybe receiving a
Speaker 1: message or two, the guides would then talk about life
Speaker 1: on the other side, They said, each guide oversaw a dozen,
Speaker 1: sometimes even one hundred, living humans. All were connected through
Speaker 1: shared karmic history from past lives, so those of us
Speaker 1: here now could eventually become guides ourselves after death if
Speaker 1: we wanted, and the guides could also reincarnate. They worked
Speaker 1: alongside apprentices who were also tied to the living person
Speaker 1: through earlier lifetimes, forming a kind of spiritual team moving
Speaker 1: together through the long journey of rebirth. The Guide said
Speaker 1: they couldn't tell them a lot about God. It was
Speaker 1: just too big for us to understand. But they did
Speaker 1: take some time to dis Jesus Christ, and I think
Speaker 1: that's not good and also a red flag. Joe says.
Speaker 1: We were chatting about great religious leaders and their ability
Speaker 1: to influence the masses, when Russell, remember that's the Guide
Speaker 1: speaking through Aviva, said, the one you call Jesus Christ
Speaker 1: has of course been back to the earth bound many
Speaker 1: many times, has he? I asked incredulously, Oh, heavens yes,
Speaker 1: Even after living the life of Jesus Christ, one still
Speaker 1: needs to return to the earth bound plane. He was
Speaker 1: just a man, but he accomplished so much in terms
Speaker 1: of knowledge, and he managed to get people to follow him.
Speaker 1: All he did was speak the truth. He never faltered
Speaker 1: in his own religion, he never faltered in his own morals.
Speaker 1: He simply acted as any teacher acts, and engendered no
Speaker 1: more karma than any other teacher. But wouldn't you say
Speaker 1: he was a particularly evolved human being, I persisted, No,
Speaker 1: Russell declared, no more than the of you. It was
Speaker 1: just that he spoke out and people needed something to
Speaker 1: hang on to. For they were in desperate times. So
Speaker 1: don't you find that interesting? Like, oh, we can't tell
Speaker 1: you anything about God, but Jesus was just a man
Speaker 1: and didn't do anything that special except you know, speak
Speaker 1: the truth.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things I was waiting for you
Speaker 2: to say, because this is a theory, is that this
Speaker 2: being of light that has been a teacher for an
Speaker 2: avatar and I use that word in the true definition
Speaker 2: of the word to so many cultures, Jesus, food, and
Speaker 2: Mohammad Bahayolah Krishna. I mean, all those different folks have
Speaker 2: a it's all the same thing, it's all the same
Speaker 2: energy force. But that's clearly not where he was going
Speaker 2: with this.
Speaker 1: No, no, and he asks him about some of those other
Speaker 1: teachers and again he's like, oh, yeah, they're just people.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Now, meanwhile, he's getting closer and closer to Philippa. He says,
Speaker 1: each morning, we were having more and more fun. As
Speaker 1: I dedicated myself to making contact and stepping up my
Speaker 1: meditative exercises, I had taken to visualizing myself hugging Philippa,
Speaker 1: a development that drew a number of appreciative comments. She
Speaker 1: seemed to crave the developing closeness as much as I did.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes I get more selfish as we get
Speaker 1: more because I want more, Philippa confessed one Friday night.
Speaker 1: Do you mean that you want me to spend longer
Speaker 1: with you in the morning, I asked? Or do you
Speaker 1: want me to contact you on more occasions? I think
Speaker 1: I just want more hugs. If Philippa could have assumed
Speaker 1: a physical body, I'm sure I would have married her.
Speaker 1: So see how he's really falling for this like invisible being.
Speaker 2: This isn't going to sound right, but it's all in
Speaker 2: this fan well.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he came to believe. He never
Speaker 1: doubted Aviva or the other mediums he visits, which I'll
Speaker 1: talk about in a minute. He never doubts them or
Speaker 1: their veracity or their ethics, and all the information coming
Speaker 1: through these mediums that he visits, most of it is true.
Speaker 1: He just thinks they're tricksters. So I think something was happening,
Speaker 1: and I think something was communicating to him, but it
Speaker 1: was not a beautiful Greek woman named Philippa.
Speaker 2: I get that I'm putting ahead of the story here,
Speaker 2: but what I'm saying is that his connection with her
Speaker 2: was in his meditation in his mind.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, or when he would go see Aviva and
Speaker 1: she would talk through her, and she would speak through Aviva.
Speaker 1: When Aviva did this channeling, I mean her vocal cords
Speaker 1: would change, her voices would change, her accents would change.
Speaker 1: And Joe recorded all of this. So everything in the book,
Speaker 1: all these quotes I'm sharing, these are all transcribed because
Speaker 1: he's a meticulous investigative reporter. And he actually took recordings
Speaker 1: of Philippa speaking through a Viva in her Greek accent,
Speaker 1: in singing Greek paragraphs, and he took it to a linguist,
Speaker 1: a professor, who said, that is a unique dialect from
Speaker 1: this portion of Greece, which is near where Philip has
Speaker 1: said she was from. So he writes in Learning to
Speaker 1: Accept My Transparency, I anticipated our chats with the potent
Speaker 1: mix of longing and apprehension, waiting for Philippa to speak
Speaker 1: through Aviva's lips. I felt nervously vulnerable, and why wouldn't I.
Speaker 1: She was able to discern my every thought, indeed, an
Speaker 1: attribute which made her love even more remarkable. Just as
Speaker 1: she knew me, I felt intuitively that I knew her too.
Speaker 1: But such intimacy brought in its wake a certain terror
Speaker 1: that sometimes curdled my elation. True privacy had been surrendered
Speaker 1: to Philippa's loving attachment, and though I was grateful for administrations,
Speaker 1: my life was no longer my own. At the time,
Speaker 1: I would have denied that the Guides were exerting great
Speaker 1: influence over me, me, my attitudes, and my behavior. Yet
Speaker 1: every time I contemplated a major decision in my life,
Speaker 1: I sought Philippa's approval. So he really, at this point
Speaker 1: is feeling like she's living in his mind, and that's
Speaker 1: got to be a weird, unsettling feeling. But now his
Speaker 1: girlfriend is gone. So Joe really dives into this world
Speaker 1: and he decides to write a book about Guides. But first,
Speaker 1: you know, as an investigative reporter, he says, he has
Speaker 1: to gather evidence of these people's lives. Joe says, if
Speaker 1: I could recover those traces and records, deeds registers, I
Speaker 1: would have incontrovertible evidence that the mysterious voices had indeed
Speaker 1: once inhabited human bodies. Most exhilarating of all this evidence
Speaker 1: would confirm the knowledge of our hearts, the knowledge that
Speaker 1: love and concern rain down on us routinely from the
Speaker 1: next dimension. He's thinking. All the guides have given very
Speaker 1: specific information about their most recent past live from their
Speaker 1: first and last name, to their place of birth, their career,
Speaker 1: military ring, even their home addresses. So Jill thinks this
Speaker 1: will be easy. And here is where the wheels start
Speaker 1: to fall off the cart. So before we talk about
Speaker 1: his investigation journey over to England, let's take our first break.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Hey, y'all, many of you who missed the Fool's Calling
Speaker 2: Course when I offered it last year have asked me
Speaker 2: to teach it again, and so I am. The thirty
Speaker 2: eight lessons of this course are sent to you via
Speaker 2: email with Mailchimp, so you can learn at your own
Speaker 2: pace over a fifteen week period. Now here's the important part.
Speaker 2: Registration opens Thursday, August thirteenth at eight a m. Eastern
Speaker 2: and closes Friday, September fourth at six pm Eastern. There
Speaker 2: is no rowing admission for this offering of this course.
Speaker 2: Registration closing date is firm, but there's a lot of
Speaker 2: details about what you'll learn and about the registration process
Speaker 2: on my website Debowen dot com. I so hope you'll
Speaker 2: join me. Take care everybody, Okay, welcome back.
Speaker 1: So Joe goes to England because this one guide Ernest
Speaker 1: had said he fought in World War two, and Joe
Speaker 1: figures that'll be easy to track down, so check out
Speaker 1: some of the facts Ernest gave him. He said in
Speaker 1: his past life his name was Sir William Alfred Scott
Speaker 1: of the ninety nine Squadron, Group three bomber Command. He
Speaker 1: said he was five feet eleven inches tall, with dark
Speaker 1: hair and brown eyes. He was born in Brighton, raised
Speaker 1: in Bristol. He gave the names of streets and schools
Speaker 1: he attended, and the three years for three years, He
Speaker 1: said he had attended Bristol University, where he studied math
Speaker 1: and engineering. He even named one of his professors, Jonathan Langley.
Speaker 1: He said he joined the RAF in nineteen thirty seven
Speaker 1: at the age of twenty and as a member of
Speaker 1: the ninety nine Squadron, was based at RAF Minenhall, Suffolk
Speaker 1: from nineteen thirty nine. There he moved to Newmarket Heath
Speaker 1: in September, the year before the outbreak of the war.
Speaker 1: And on and on it goes with details of his life.
Speaker 1: So you'd think that'd be easy to find. But when
Speaker 1: Joe goes to the Public Records Office and checks the records,
Speaker 1: there's nothing. He talks to other members of the ninety
Speaker 1: nine squadron. All the facts about the ninety nine Squadron
Speaker 1: were true, but there was no crew member by the
Speaker 1: name that Ernest gave. He said, I spent several hours
Speaker 1: in the Public Records Office, scanning page after page of
Speaker 1: the ninety nine squadron logbooks, searching the list of six
Speaker 1: man bomber crews. At the end of the afternoon, it
Speaker 1: was heartbreaking to admit to myself I had searched in vain. Then,
Speaker 1: he says, at Saint Catharine's House in London, where births,
Speaker 1: marriages and deaths for England and Wales since eighteen thirty
Speaker 1: seven are registered, there was no William Alfred Scott that
Speaker 1: had been born in Brighton in nineteen seventeen or had
Speaker 1: died in Conventry in nineteen forty four. No William Alfred
Speaker 1: Scott had enrolled in Bristol University from nineteen thirty five
Speaker 1: to nineteen thirty seven. There wasn't even a professor named
Speaker 1: Jonathan Langley. According to Kelly's Directory of Bristol and the
Speaker 1: suburbs from nineteen twenty six. He searched there for the
Speaker 1: roads he had mentioned in the streets that he had
Speaker 1: lived on, but no, Joe writes, there was no hill
Speaker 1: road in the city, the street where he claimed to
Speaker 1: have lived, and, in further contradiction of his testimony, no
Speaker 1: Princess Victoria School or even a Princess Victoria Street. So
Speaker 1: he's staying with his parents in England while doing this research,
Speaker 1: and he returns home one night after another day fruitlessly
Speaker 1: searching for evidence that this man lived, and he tells
Speaker 1: his mom all about it. He says, if Ernest was
Speaker 1: not William Alfred Scott, who was he? He says, My
Speaker 1: mother had an answer. It was predictable enough, I suppose,
Speaker 1: leaping straight out of her years of Christian conditioning demons,
Speaker 1: She said, her voice quivering a little. You're talking to demons.
Speaker 1: And I don't like the sound of it one bit.
Speaker 2: I knew we were gonna get here.
Speaker 1: What are you thinking?
Speaker 2: I knew this was common, okay, because the seductive stage
Speaker 2: and I don't even know if that's correct in terminology,
Speaker 2: but there is such a seduction stage that is so
Speaker 2: apparent here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've been so perfectly choreographed for Joe's unique
Speaker 1: intellect and needs.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Oh we do we see what we believe we
Speaker 2: want to see, don't Yes.
Speaker 1: So Joe gets back to Toronto and he's upset, he's hurt,
Speaker 1: but he's excited. He can't wait to talk to Ernest
Speaker 1: and confront him with all these lies. And you should
Speaker 1: see this part of the book dev It's like pages
Speaker 1: and pages and pages because Ernest, of course has an
Speaker 1: excuse for everything, and it is like manipulation on steroids.
Speaker 1: To read the little argument that goes back and forth
Speaker 1: with them. He said that he had done things in
Speaker 1: his prior life that he wasn't proud of, and so
Speaker 1: he had covered his tracks by changing certain key details.
Speaker 1: I'd yeah, right. And soon after this, Ernest announces, guess what, people,
Speaker 1: He's going to leave the group because he's about to
Speaker 1: read Incarnate.
Speaker 2: Isn't that convenient?
Speaker 1: Isn't that convenient? Exactly? I'm like, oh, so you're called out,
Speaker 1: and now oop's gotta go getting bored again. He says
Speaker 1: that he's chosen his parents, a couple named Hugh and Susan.
Speaker 2: He says, wait, just don't have to stop you, there's
Speaker 2: a sitis I've never heard you say before. Oops, getting
Speaker 2: bored again. Sorry, I just that just struck me because
Speaker 2: perfect and humbrios. I apologize.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, So he tells them he's going to be
Speaker 1: born to a woman named Susan and a man named
Speaker 1: Hugh on July thirteenth, and that his parents are gonna
Speaker 1: name him Thomas Hugh Graham. He'll be born in Kent, England. Okay.
Speaker 1: So after that information comes out and Ernest leaves to
Speaker 1: get born again, what do you think Joe does?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: He travels back to England the following July to check
Speaker 1: the recent birth records and guess what he finds. There
Speaker 1: is an announcement stating that a Thomas Hugh Graham was
Speaker 1: born on July thirteenth, nineteen eighty five, two parents, Hugh
Speaker 1: and Susan Graham in Hampshire. Joe says it was all
Speaker 1: just as he had said, with one exception. The birthplace
Speaker 1: was in Aldershot, Hampshire, rather than in Kent, which lay
Speaker 1: thirty five miles away. So there's always something a little
Speaker 1: off which I find interesting. Did you know that's one
Speaker 1: of the old, old old superstitions about the d word
Speaker 1: people that if you do see a demonic being, they
Speaker 1: can manifest as appearing as a human, but not one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. There will always be.
Speaker 2: Something off, like an extra thumb or something.
Speaker 1: Right right, or missing a foot or something. They can't
Speaker 1: one percent manifest as us, and there's always just something
Speaker 1: a little not right about what they're saying. And so
Speaker 1: I found that interesting that everything Ernest told him about
Speaker 1: his last life, the surrounding details about the war and
Speaker 1: what it was like in the bomber, all of that
Speaker 1: was correct, but the actual details, the names and dates
Speaker 1: and places, completely fabricated and wrong. But then he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, I'm out, I'm gonna I'm gonna reincarnate,
Speaker 1: and these are my parents and this is what they're
Speaker 1: gonna name me. And he says this a full nine
Speaker 1: months before this baby's born, and it's exactly as he predicted.
Speaker 1: So do you see how the manipulation happens where you're like, well,
Speaker 1: that was true, Maybe this just was a little off
Speaker 1: for other reasons, exactly Sure. So then this new guy, Stanford,
Speaker 1: joins the group and things get really weird. The group
Speaker 1: of guides, speaking through Aviva, tells Stanford that he's an entity,
Speaker 1: but ah, what a shame your wife is a soul.
Speaker 1: So slowly they start to turn him away from his
Speaker 1: wife and toward Aviva. The guides kept repeating that an
Speaker 1: entity was not necessarily better than a soul, but an
Speaker 1: entity's for development could be halted by teaming up with
Speaker 1: a soul in a business or personal relationship. So basically
Speaker 1: they were telling him, hey, buddy, your wife, Betty, she's
Speaker 1: holding you back. And poor Betty, she keeps coming to
Speaker 1: these meetings Friday after Friday, bringing baked goods and snacks
Speaker 1: for everyone, until finally she realizes her presence is no
Speaker 1: longer desired, so she stops going and they start having
Speaker 1: problems in their marriage. And now it's just Stanford at
Speaker 1: the meetings without his wife, and now that Betty's gone,
Speaker 1: the guides start to tell him that Aviva's leukemia is
Speaker 1: flaring up again. She only has three months to live,
Speaker 1: but he is actually a healer woo do you know?
Speaker 1: And only he now has the healing energy to save
Speaker 1: her life. So Aviva's guide, Russell, explains to Stanford that
Speaker 1: his energy matches Aviva's perfectly, making him the only one
Speaker 1: in the group capable of channeling healing into her ill
Speaker 1: stricken body. He told Stanford that his ability had been
Speaker 1: developing across five past lives and that helping Aviva now
Speaker 1: would be an ideal way to break through hiscarmic debt.
Speaker 1: So eventually the group of guides kick Roger, remember the
Speaker 1: hypnotist neighbor who started this whole thing. They kicked him
Speaker 1: to the curb and they replace him with Stanford. Now
Speaker 1: Stanford is the one who leads Aviva into trance, and
Speaker 1: he's the one who's required to be at the back
Speaker 1: and call of the guides whenever Aviva needs healing. So
Speaker 1: again we see this divide and conquer thing. So Joe
Speaker 1: says he's starting to notice that Stanford was growing more
Speaker 1: and more anxious and stressed. His business was failing, his
Speaker 1: marriage was on the brink of divorce. But the same
Speaker 1: things were happening to Joe too. He was suddenly an insomniac.
Speaker 1: His irritability was through the roof. Friends started commenting on
Speaker 1: his haggard appearance. Eventually, Stanford leaves the group and he
Speaker 1: tells Joe, if you ever want to know the truth,
Speaker 1: call me. But Joe is still obsessed with finding proof
Speaker 1: of these guides, he can't leave the group. He asks
Speaker 1: Philip But to speak in her native tongue and records it,
Speaker 1: and as I mentioned before, he brings it to the
Speaker 1: linguist who tells him, yeah, that is the dialect and
Speaker 1: tone of a woman from eighteen century Greece. So from
Speaker 1: here Joe decides to visit other channelers and see if
Speaker 1: they can bring through Russell or Ernest or his beloved Philippa.
Speaker 1: And he asks Philippa about this first, because remember how
Speaker 1: he said he can't make a decision without her. He says,
Speaker 1: would guides communicating through other mediums be able to identify you,
Speaker 1: make contact with you and impart information about our last
Speaker 1: life together to verify that the link have been made? Yes,
Speaker 1: said Philippa, if they were genuine guides. If they shrink
Speaker 1: from being tested in this way, don't trust them.
Speaker 2: She's setting him up here. I mean it's pretty clear.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: So, for various reasons, none of them is successful. And
Speaker 1: this is a big chunk of the book, maybe three chapters.
Speaker 1: He goes to channelers and mediums across America, England and Canada,
Speaker 1: and all of them are bringing through correct information, but
Speaker 1: none of them brings through Russell or Philippa or the others,
Speaker 1: but one medium dead one stood out from the rest,
Speaker 1: Claire Laforgia, who channeled the nineteenth century English surgeon named
Speaker 1: doctor Samuel Pinkerton. Pinkerton offered details about Philippa that went
Speaker 1: well beyond coincidence. He said Joe and Philippa had lived
Speaker 1: together around seventeen sixty, which did line up with what
Speaker 1: Philippa said. But still, despite this, doctor Pinkerton couldn't ultimately
Speaker 1: convince Joe that he was a genuine spirit, so he
Speaker 1: continues on this true odyssey searching for proof. He goes
Speaker 1: to England, Wales, Greece, armed with names, dates, villages, even
Speaker 1: the favorite pub of one of the guides. He talks
Speaker 1: to historians, scours through birth and death records, military records,
Speaker 1: and on and on. Nothing. Every bit of information the
Speaker 1: guides gave a mount to a hill of beans. Almost
Speaker 1: all of the details were correct in that the places
Speaker 1: they named existed, but the names and dates would be
Speaker 1: wrong or non existing. He was most heartbroken over Philip's lies.
Speaker 1: She mentions, for example, that it took several days to
Speaker 1: visit the port city of Alexandropolis from her village called
Speaker 1: Thero's well, the village theros never existed and the city
Speaker 1: she mentioned was only named that decades after her death.
Speaker 1: So he's furious and said the guides were not beings
Speaker 1: of light but masters of deception. He returns to Canada
Speaker 1: to have it out with them, but when he confronts
Speaker 1: the guide named Russell, with all of these inaccuracies, Russell
Speaker 1: again goes into super manipulative mode and acts all offended
Speaker 1: that history hadn't recorded his life or death. He says
Speaker 1: there must be records that exist somewhere, and Joe would
Speaker 1: find them if only he kept looking. For example, like
Speaker 1: when Joe says to Russell, there's not even a Saint
Speaker 1: Mary's Church in the village Heathfield where you claim to
Speaker 1: have lived, Russell said, yes, there was, and explained that
Speaker 1: there was a traveling pastor who would come to town
Speaker 1: once a month and offer services in a building that
Speaker 1: they nicknamed Saint Mary's. I mean, come on, that is
Speaker 1: such a manipulative lie. Right. When he tries to confront Philippa,
Speaker 1: Russell said she wasn't prepared to talk to him because
Speaker 1: his doubt had lowered her energies.
Speaker 2: Oh my golly, you right, explained the victim.
Speaker 1: Beer exactly talk about gas lighting. Joe said. Russell was
Speaker 1: withholding Philippa from me in the hope that I would
Speaker 1: seize my opposition and plead for direct communication with my
Speaker 1: beloved guide. But my disillusionment ran too far deep. Besides,
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction, so instead
Speaker 1: he just kept arguing with Russell. He said, I don't
Speaker 1: think you're a spear guide. I think you're either an
Speaker 1: aspect of Aviva's subconscious or something more nefarious. I think
Speaker 1: about people such as Emmanuel Swedenberg, the great Swedish clairvoyant,
Speaker 1: who warned very specifically about communicating with entity he's in
Speaker 1: the next world. He warned about the dangers of evil
Speaker 1: spirits who will use all manner of subtlety, brilliance and
Speaker 1: affection to reach you. But Russell just kept asking him
Speaker 1: to what end, To what end are we trying to
Speaker 1: deceive you? Eventually, Joe gives up, saying, you know we
Speaker 1: had talked all night. Russell never would have admitted any
Speaker 1: intent to mislead. He was as slippery as the proverbial
Speaker 1: eel and a master psychologist to boot, knowing that he
Speaker 1: would continue to blame me for my failure to find
Speaker 1: evidence of the guides I left the field of battle. Okay,
Speaker 1: So before Joe decides to completely change the course of
Speaker 1: his book and what he's actually going to be writing about,
Speaker 1: he decides to visit that one channeler, one last time,
Speaker 1: doctor Pinkerton, who was able to get a little bit
Speaker 1: more information through to him. But before we talk about that,
Speaker 1: we're going to take our last break. We'll be right back. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: just wanted to let you know that I've added a
Speaker 1: new guided meditation to my website called how to Cut Chords.
Speaker 1: This thirty minute meditation teaches you how to cut negative
Speaker 1: chords to a difficult person, situation, memory, or aspect of
Speaker 1: yourself you're hoping to change. You can learn more about
Speaker 1: it on my website or in this month's newsletter, which
Speaker 1: you can find on my substack. And my friend and
Speaker 1: co host Denise Corell, and I have added a brand
Speaker 1: new video course called The Business of Being Spiritual. It
Speaker 1: includes seven teaching modules where we walk you through all
Speaker 1: sorts of things, from charging money and networking to handling taxes,
Speaker 1: and tips for sharing your work on a wider platform.
Speaker 1: If you go to Samantha Fay dot com and click
Speaker 1: the store tab. You'll find it under video Classes. And finally,
Speaker 1: don't forget to check out my other podcast, Enlightened Empaths.
Speaker 1: We've started a new popular monthly feature called the Energy Forecast,
Speaker 1: where we cover all the metaphysical transitions and stuff heading
Speaker 1: your way each month. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome back.
Speaker 1: So after Joe has had this complete argument with all
Speaker 1: of the guides and is really disenchanted with what has
Speaker 1: been going on, he goes back to that one woman
Speaker 1: who channeled doctor Pinkerton who was able to give accurate information.
Speaker 1: So he goes back to him and he asked this
Speaker 1: guide to explain the heck is going on, and Doctor
Speaker 1: Pinkerton said that these were earthbound spirits who had refused
Speaker 1: to or couldn't move into the light. He also blamed
Speaker 1: the channeler Aviva for not being well trained enough to
Speaker 1: block out these lower energies. Doctor Pinkerton called them lost
Speaker 1: souls who have lived rather unsavory lives and are just
Speaker 1: hanging around. He said, these lower entities, they come in
Speaker 1: with great knowledge, they come in with love. They want
Speaker 1: you to believe in them. They are quite clever. They
Speaker 1: say that they do not control your will, but oh no, no,
Speaker 1: they have a very lovely sweet way to control you completely.
Speaker 1: He also said that Russell was a master manipulator and
Speaker 1: called him a serpent. And then Joe goes and does
Speaker 1: his investigative thing on doctor Pinkerton and discovered guess what,
Speaker 1: Doctor Pinkerdon never existed in any way, shape or form
Speaker 1: on Earth. So he goes back and confronts doctor Pinkerton
Speaker 1: with this evidence, and he was given the same run
Speaker 1: around bs as when he confronted Russell.
Speaker 2: This is crazy, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean he has to travel. I think it's
Speaker 1: a different country that that channeler lived in, and so
Speaker 1: he's traveling all over confronting these different mediums and channelers
Speaker 1: and just getting met with lie after lie after lie.
Speaker 1: The only thing I didn't like because I felt that
Speaker 1: Joe was a good arguer with these manipulative things that
Speaker 1: we're talking through. But when Russell kept saying to him,
Speaker 1: to what end? To what end are we lying to you? Like?
Speaker 1: What is the point? I wish Joe would have said, divisiveness.
Speaker 1: Look at how you've divided us. You've divided us from
Speaker 1: souls and entities. You broke up Stanford's marriage, you broke
Speaker 1: up me and my girlfriend. It's all divisiveness this point,
Speaker 1: Joe probably couldn't see that. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: I think at this point that investigative journalists that he
Speaker 2: is kicked in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that old joke about the fish swimming in
Speaker 1: the ocean looking for water.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So at this point Joe is fully convinced that
Speaker 1: most of these entities speaking through the channelers are lower
Speaker 1: level entities, and he believes more that they are a
Speaker 1: hungry ghost. He never lost faith in the mediums. Here's
Speaker 1: what he said about them. Whatever the voice is represented
Speaker 1: and however betrayed I felt by the spirits, I believe
Speaker 1: that conscious fraud on the part of the mediums was
Speaker 1: not a factor. Having observed the trance state on innumerable occasions,
Speaker 1: having witnessed marked personality changes reflected by a host of
Speaker 1: different accents and intonations, and having received a considerable amount
Speaker 1: of accurate information that could only have been acquired paranormally,
Speaker 1: there was no doubt in my mind that the mediumship
Speaker 1: itself was genuine. Multiple personalities can also be dismissed from
Speaker 1: the contention because multiple personalities always claimed the same lifespan
Speaker 1: as the host individual, so he also no longer thought
Speaker 1: that they were the product of the medium subconscious because
Speaker 1: the mediums he spoke to new things they couldn't have known.
Speaker 1: For example, once he was in another country and no
Speaker 1: one in the world knew he was there, but Iviva
Speaker 1: called him to ask if he was okay, and he
Speaker 1: was like, how did you know I was here? And
Speaker 1: she said, oh, Russell told me so. He had a
Speaker 1: lot of weird stuff like that happened. That completely convinced
Speaker 1: him the mediums were authentic and ethical, they just were
Speaker 1: also being misled by these hungry ghosts.
Speaker 2: Did he develop the phrase hungry ghost?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, That is an ancient concept from Buddhism.
Speaker 1: A lot of Eastern religions believe in the concept of
Speaker 1: hungry ghosts. There's even a festival for them every July.
Speaker 1: I believe it is.
Speaker 2: Oh my golly, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you've heard of the tradition of leaving food out
Speaker 1: on your ancestral altar. Sure, it's similar to that.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Okay, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: It's also to honor them, but that's just a part
Speaker 1: of it. From what I understand, so the whole thing
Speaker 1: drove him almost to the brink of a meltdown. He
Speaker 1: kept asking himself, why why would they lie about their identities?
Speaker 1: If bent on deception, would they not appear all the
Speaker 1: more believable if they were to provide the real names.
Speaker 1: He goes on to say, perhaps the solution to this
Speaker 1: riddle lies in their well concealed dread of non physical existence.
Speaker 1: If they gave their real names, they would be forced
Speaker 1: to confront their deaths, and such a confrontation, which is
Speaker 1: clearly avoided at all costs, would activate their most hideous nightmare,
Speaker 1: that they no longer exist physically. No matter how I
Speaker 1: mold over the range of possible explanations, I always returned
Speaker 1: to the premise that the voices and their distinct personalities
Speaker 1: were generated by mischievous and possibly malevolent discarnates. Their eagerness
Speaker 1: to communicate their concern for the medium's health and strength,
Speaker 1: their preoccupation with life after death and reincarnation, and the
Speaker 1: occasional admission that they missed the pleasures of incarnate life
Speaker 1: all suggested humans who no longer had physical bodies, yet
Speaker 1: longed to live and breathe once more, Just as the
Speaker 1: famed entity Seth, who had been channeled by Jane Roberts,
Speaker 1: occasionally asked for a glass of wine or beer and
Speaker 1: claimed to enjoy the material realm through Jane Robert's senses.
Speaker 1: There were indications that doctor Pinkerton and Russell hungered for
Speaker 1: vicarious sexual thrills. I pondered the significance of the lying
Speaker 1: and manipulation channeled in the exalted name of guides and
Speaker 1: teachers and camouflage as love, wisdom, and solicitousness, and I
Speaker 1: concluded that these various entities were here to gratify themselves
Speaker 1: by tasting physical life, and they had no option but
Speaker 1: to wrap their true intent in the guise of virtuousness.
Speaker 1: He's got a point, because all these guides do. They're
Speaker 1: always talking about sex. First, they tried to get Stanford
Speaker 1: and Aviva together. Doctor Pinkerton even tried to make Joe
Speaker 1: have relations with the channeler named Claire. Check this out,
Speaker 1: he says to Joe at one of the meetings. Philippa
Speaker 1: has so much to give, and when there's a female
Speaker 1: vibration that is sincere around you, philip A trust that
Speaker 1: vibration and she feels the same as if she's touching you.
Speaker 1: Especially through a medium. It's a wonderful, wonderful journey. Joe says,
Speaker 1: At first, I couldn't believe my ears. Was he really
Speaker 1: suggesting that Claire and I become sexually involved? But now
Speaker 1: Joe is thinking that these are lower level earthbound goes
Speaker 1: hungering for attention, a glass of wine and maybe some
Speaker 1: freaky stuff. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2: I think that's bizarre and just yike yuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Joe released the first edition of his book
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one, and a decade later he followed
Speaker 1: it with the second edition that included a new final chapter,
Speaker 1: and in it he shared what life had been like
Speaker 1: since cutting ties with the mediums, overall much smoother, and
Speaker 1: he'd even gotten married. Still, he admitted he suspected he'd
Speaker 1: been targeted by a psychic attack from the Guides. He writes,
Speaker 1: early in nineteen eighty eight, I was living in a
Speaker 1: little house facing Adolphus Reach on the northeastern side of
Speaker 1: Lake Ontario, during this time of soul searching. While still
Speaker 1: grappling with the emotional upheaval of pulling away from the Guides,
Speaker 1: I noticed an inflamed swelling over my navel. It was
Speaker 1: readily apparent that puss was gathering within and fueling its growth,
Speaker 1: which was painful to the touch. He went to doctor
Speaker 1: after doctor trying to get a diagnosis, but nobody knew
Speaker 1: what it was, and the pain kept getting worse. It
Speaker 1: got so bad that one night, around midnight, he drove
Speaker 1: to the er in a snowstorm. Finally, a doctor there
Speaker 1: diagnosed him with umphalitis. The doctor said, this condition is
Speaker 1: so rare in adults, but occasionally affects newborns. After the
Speaker 1: severing of the umbilical cord, the navel is a potential
Speaker 1: portal of entry for organisms and inflammation to occur. He writes,
Speaker 1: I was then carred into a nearby room for an
Speaker 1: ultrasound scan. A small green screen showed a malevolent growth
Speaker 1: like an inverted pyramid, lying beneath my belly button. So
Speaker 1: he has the surgery, and when he wakes up, he
Speaker 1: gets a phone call. It's Claire, the woman who channeled
Speaker 1: for doctor Pinkerton. He was shocked once again. He's in this,
Speaker 1: you know, really rural place. Nobody knows where he is.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows he's in that hospital, and Claire tells him
Speaker 1: Doctor Pinkerton told me to call you, Joe said. My
Speaker 1: next thought was this, if doctor Pinkerton had told Claire
Speaker 1: where I was, perhaps he was the one who had
Speaker 1: put me there. Perhaps he was the source of the
Speaker 1: strange affliction.
Speaker 2: Good guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's weird, dab because that's right where the
Speaker 1: umbilical cord is where he had this infection. And I wonder.
Speaker 1: We always talk about, you know, invisible to us chords
Speaker 1: of energy that connect people. Well, I think when you
Speaker 1: are connecting in the way he was to these hungry ghosts,
Speaker 1: there must have been energetic chords there.
Speaker 2: I bet so absolutely. This whole thing is a strange,
Speaker 2: strange story, and I certainly admire him for his professionalism
Speaker 2: and researching it the way he did.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the book ends with Joe doing really well.
Speaker 1: He's happily married, his distance himself from his guides. He's
Speaker 1: moved on. But unfortunately it was not a happy ending
Speaker 1: for him. He and his wife divorced after ten years.
Speaker 1: He was a very big marathon runner and an outdoorsman,
Speaker 1: but a back injury ended that, and this of course
Speaker 1: affected his work, so his finances took a nose dive.
Speaker 1: Things got so bad that he was applying for bankruptcy
Speaker 1: and had to take a job picking strawberries with a
Speaker 1: bunch of teenagers. He did start collaborating on a new
Speaker 1: book about the dark Knight of the Soul, but then
Speaker 1: in just two years he lost three loved ones to suicide.
Speaker 1: When he was just fifty three years old, Joe made
Speaker 1: the same sad decision and ended his life. In a
Speaker 1: letter written to his brother on his last day, he wrote,
Speaker 1: I know the immortal penalty for taking one's own life
Speaker 1: is steep, indeed, but all avenues out of this nightmare
Speaker 1: I am in seemed blocked and poisoned. Of course, everyone
Speaker 1: was shocked and saddened, but some wondered if these malevolent
Speaker 1: spirits had anything to do with it. His sister Jane,
Speaker 1: said Joe often complained of being tormented by them and
Speaker 1: worried incessantly about his immortal soul. His co author said,
Speaker 1: Joe did express to me that he felt haunted by
Speaker 1: dark forces. I don't know if he was actually possessed
Speaker 1: when he killed himself, but he did speak of being haunted.
Speaker 1: His editor said that Joe often said the spirits were
Speaker 1: still after him for having written his final.
Speaker 2: Book, Whoah Oh horribly.
Speaker 1: Sad isn't that so horribly sad? And I don't mean
Speaker 1: to do a whole show with such a horrible, terrifying beginning, middle,
Speaker 1: and end. But I also feel as psychic teachers, we
Speaker 1: have to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, No, I mean really though, I think it's important.
Speaker 1: Not everything is all love and light. I know people
Speaker 1: want to believe that. I want to believe that. But
Speaker 1: stories like this exist and are out there, and I
Speaker 1: think we need to give them some credence and think
Speaker 1: of them before we open ourselves up to automatic writing
Speaker 1: or any form of mediumship.
Speaker 2: But actually channeling I do too, And that brings me
Speaker 2: to a question I have for you. So, they have
Speaker 2: been periods of time in history, blocks of time where
Speaker 2: channeling kinds of mediumship have been more prevalent than others.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I mentioned earlier about early in
Speaker 2: the nineteen hundreds with folks like Arthur Ford and those folks,
Speaker 2: and then in eighties with some of the things that
Speaker 2: were going on as we moved into this quote New
Speaker 2: Age thought, which this book was a part of. I
Speaker 2: wonder if there are cycles in human existence or in
Speaker 2: existence on the other side, that precipitate this interest and
Speaker 2: this connection in ways like this in measurable periods of time.
Speaker 2: I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I think the next wave is
Speaker 1: going to be No what AI? I think these hungry
Speaker 1: ghosts are going to use AI to link in with
Speaker 1: our energy Samantha.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a confession.
Speaker 1: Oh my spirit guide.
Speaker 2: No, of course, not my guy that's always been with me,
Speaker 2: a still with me. But sometimes when I get so
Speaker 2: crazy and frustrated about where I think all of this
Speaker 2: is going, I will go to YouTube and I will
Speaker 2: watch the very ending of the movie called Wargames, and
Speaker 2: I will watch the ending of two thousand and one
Speaker 2: of Space Honesty. Both of those remind me of the
Speaker 2: humanity of us all because the very last thing that
Speaker 2: flashes up on the computer screen in Wargames, the computer says,
Speaker 2: very interesting game. The only way to win is to
Speaker 2: not play.
Speaker 1: Step away from the manipulation, step away from the divisiveness, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and be very conscious of as much as you
Speaker 2: can of what you're sharing in social media. Is it real?
Speaker 2: Because sometimes it looks really real and it's not.
Speaker 1: I just think that whatever these things are whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call them. I think their endgame is to
Speaker 1: break us down. And how do you break something down.
Speaker 1: You divide, You divide to conquer, And so anytime we
Speaker 1: are in a period of divisiveness, I don't think they
Speaker 1: need to come through channelers. It'd be interesting to look
Speaker 1: at the timeline that you were just talking about and
Speaker 1: line it up with what was going on politically war
Speaker 1: ish like in the world.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, it would be are right. It would be
Speaker 2: interesting to see if there are specific correlations to specific
Speaker 2: time frames.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it's not going to be AI
Speaker 1: if all this disclosure could be about an opportunity for
Speaker 1: these beings to present as interdimensional or off planet channelers.
Speaker 2: Oh there's a whole other thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see that a lot too.
Speaker 2: We could just go on and on and on, couldn't we.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we certainly could. But we just wanted, or I
Speaker 1: wanted to bring this to you and thank you for
Speaker 1: going along with me. So happily I did sneak in
Speaker 1: the D word, and I did not tell you, and
Speaker 1: I apologize that's my confession.
Speaker 2: You did, and I just start singing Kumbaya.
Speaker 1: I mean, let us know your thoughts on the show.
Speaker 1: If you want to check out the book, I'll put
Speaker 1: it in the show notes. It's The Siren Call of
Speaker 1: Hungry Ghost by Joe Fisher. It's a pretty riveting read.
Speaker 1: Have a great week, a safe week, a happy week,
Speaker 1: and remember as always, to be the light for yourself
Speaker 1: and others.
Speaker 2: Bake care Airy.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Psychic Teachers, your podcast for seekers,
Speaker 1: light workers, mystics, and magical thinkers. If you like the show,
Speaker 1: please tell a friend or leave us a review wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcast. For more information, check out
Speaker 1: our Facebook page Psychic Teachers, or our websites Samantha Fay
Speaker 1: dot com and Debbowen dot com. Thanks for listening and
Speaker 1: have a great week.