1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Yes, I watched K Pop Demon Hunters, and now we're 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,359 going to talk about it. It's very odd because for 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,679 several weeks now, people were sending weird messages on the 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,719 Symbolic World Facebook group and then on Twitter and different places. 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,879 People were trying to get my attention on this K 6 00:00:20,039 --> 00:00:23,879 Pop Demon Hunters. And you know, I often get weird 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,280 requests for weird anime series and stuff like that, and 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,079 I usually kind of, you know, don't really pay attention. 9 00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:32,960 But then these requests started to get more and more, 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,079 and I was like, what is this movie? And then 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,200 someone on my team, who, to be fair, has a 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,960 very young daughter, said, you know, Jonathan, you really should 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,560 watch this Kpop Demon Hunter. Everybody's talking about it and 14 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,320 you need. 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: To talk about it. 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: So anyways, I was traveling, was I had a bit 17 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,759 of time, and so I decided to watch it, and 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,359 I have to say that I was first of all, 19 00:00:56,359 --> 00:00:59,600 I was surprised. It was well put together. It was 20 00:00:59,799 --> 00:01:03,079 a good animated movie. In some ways, it seems like 21 00:01:03,159 --> 00:01:06,640 Sony with the Spider Man Spider Verse series and now 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,079 with this movie, is definitely out shining Disney in terms 23 00:01:10,079 --> 00:01:13,879 of quality. The movie was well written, the characters were interesting, 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,400 you know, just that just that is almost enough now 25 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,519 because everything is such drivel everywhere. So but I guess 26 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:25,680 people were mostly interested in what does this have to do? 27 00:01:25,879 --> 00:01:30,760 Why are there these demons? You know, is there something interesting, 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,920 some interesting symbolism to look at? And the answer is, 29 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,640 of course yes, with some caveats. There are some interesting 30 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,920 things in the movie, and there are some problematic things 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,719 I would say in the movie, of course from a 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,200 basic symbolic perspective, but I would say, obviously, of. 33 00:01:47,120 --> 00:02:01,519 Speaker 2: Course from a Christian perspective as well. This is Jonathan 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,280 Pejol Welcome to the symbolic world. 35 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: And so you probably know the concept the ideas that 36 00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:22,240 there are these K pop stars that are secretly demon hunters, 37 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,000 and this is the long lineage of demon hunters that 38 00:02:25,039 --> 00:02:28,039 are always women. And the way that they entrap these 39 00:02:28,039 --> 00:02:29,800 demons is through song. 40 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: Of course, they kill the. 41 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: Demons, they fight them specifically, but the basic thing they 42 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,639 want to do is sing in a manner which will 43 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,639 create a kind of web they call the hone Moon, 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,000 a kind of web that will cover the demons and 45 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:46,919 will prevent the demons from poking into our world. And 46 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,800 these K pop stars are the latest iteration, and they're 47 00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:55,039 right on the verge of reaching the Golden hone moon, 48 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,840 which is the moment when the demons will no longer 49 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,360 be able to come through. And so this the devil 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,479 demon character what's its name, gui Ma that is like 51 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,080 a kind of living fire that controls the demons, is 52 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,240 convinced to create. 53 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,479 Speaker 2: A demon boy band. 54 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,879 Speaker 1: And the demon boy band comes and tries to compete 55 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,400 with the Hunters, which is the band in the K 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,560 pop band and of course you know there are all 57 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,080 this ensues their secret demons, and so ultimately they get defeated. 58 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: But there's also a story of love. 59 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: Anyways, I don't want to The purpose isn't to give 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,879 you a big synopsis. If you haven't watched it, you 61 00:03:35,919 --> 00:03:39,960 probably don't care to know what I think anyways, And 62 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,919 so the basic concept is interesting. The idea that music 63 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:48,039 in some ways is a way to defeat demons is 64 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,960 of course something that's very fascinating. The way that the 65 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,360 demons are represented and the way that the people are 66 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,159 affected by demons are represented is that they have patterns. 67 00:03:57,879 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: Look patterns just. 68 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: Now. These patterns are kind of these irregular, jagged patterns. 69 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,560 It's interesting to think that the word pattern would be 70 00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:12,719 used negatively. We can get how that word is used 71 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:15,599 negatively when we talk about you know bad patterns in 72 00:04:15,639 --> 00:04:19,519 your life, you know relationship patterns that you have, And 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:25,199 in some ways, these demonic influences are represented in two 74 00:04:25,319 --> 00:04:28,480 specific ways. Mostly there are things you should be ashamed of. 75 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,720 On the one hand, there are the things you've done. 76 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:36,199 In the case of the genu character who has who 77 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,680 basically traded his family in order to be comfortable. But 78 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,480 in the case of the main female character her name 79 00:04:43,519 --> 00:04:47,040 is Rumy, she has a kind of shame that isn't 80 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:49,040 based on something she's done, but it's based on something 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,800 she is, which is that she is the mix of 82 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,000 a demon and a human. And so interestingly enough that 83 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,120 this weird kind of nephilim imagery in the story, though 84 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,360 I wouldn't interpret it so much in that way. Of course, 85 00:05:03,399 --> 00:05:05,879 it's a it's based in kind of Korean lore, a 86 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,199 lot of it, and so I wouldn't go too far 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,439 in that direction. But it's mostly the idea of having 88 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,839 something something from your past which is shameful, something that 89 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,360 you're not responsible for, but that you carry the waight for. 90 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:21,319 It could be being an illegitimate child. It could be 91 00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:24,000 being born from a poor family or being born from 92 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,240 you know, certain having certain things in your past that 93 00:05:27,319 --> 00:05:29,759 you didn't decide but that would bring shame upon you. 94 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,519 There's also something else that it suggests, we'll get to 95 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,959 that a little later. And then there's also the things 96 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,839 that you've done with the roomy character what you see. 97 00:05:38,879 --> 00:05:41,560 And so the idea is that this is what the 98 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,160 demons do, is that they invoked shame in you on 99 00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:49,399 the one hand, and therefore they get you under their control. 100 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:52,560 And in the other way is that they get your attention. 101 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,920 The whole thing is of course based on attention, which 102 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,879 makes it very interesting the notion that in some ways, 103 00:05:59,439 --> 00:06:02,839 the way that these hunterricks are able to defeat the 104 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,399 demons is not just the way that they sing, but 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,920 the way in which they harness people's attention. So there 106 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:13,360 is a kind of, of course, confusion between religious attention 107 00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:14,560 and celebrity. 108 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:15,439 Speaker 2: You see. 109 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: Of course, in a normal religious world, this is true. 110 00:06:18,879 --> 00:06:22,839 We come together, we would sing songs to worship God, 111 00:06:22,399 --> 00:06:27,879 we would participate in sacred events, in sacred prayers, and 112 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:30,879 you know, as we do it together right not only 113 00:06:30,959 --> 00:06:32,839 on our own, but as we come together and do this. 114 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,720 In some ways, it binds a relationship of love between 115 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:40,120 people focused on God, and that is of course a 116 00:06:40,199 --> 00:06:43,399 way to fight demons if you think of demons, of course, 117 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,560 as the thing that fragments us, the thing that separates 118 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:48,680 us from each other, which is of course very much 119 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,240 the case in this movie. The demons pull the Hunterrecks 120 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,560 apart by making them feel ashamed and making them feel 121 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,759 guilty about certain aspects of their life. So there's an 122 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:03,839 interesting relationship with the way that the world actually works. 123 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,639 But you can see how it's very much a parody 124 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,759 because now what we have are the hundreds who are celebrities, 125 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,839 and they have their fans, and so they gather the 126 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:17,000 attention of their fans into their song, and they sing 127 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,720 these songs that are about being confident in yourself. 128 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,959 Speaker 2: You know, what is the song Golden that is they're 129 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:24,360 kind of. 130 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Leading to, which is about moving up and being confident 131 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,160 and knowing what you are and knowing who you are 132 00:07:30,279 --> 00:07:34,000 and being and all of that kind of self esteem language, 133 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:37,240 which you can see how it makes sense people tend 134 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:42,079 to oppose self esteem language against the idea of being 135 00:07:42,079 --> 00:07:45,240 a shame of who you are and of what you've 136 00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:48,360 done and so giving you trust and so there's like 137 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:52,240 a parody, right in this case, the fans celebrate them, 138 00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:55,920 makes them feel good about themselves about what they're doing, 139 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,120 and then their song. The pattern that this brings is 140 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,439 now a pattern that will hold the Demon's back, which 141 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,079 is a parody of course of how sacred reality works. 142 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,480 And there are some really interesting things going on, you know, 143 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,560 of course, the the Saja Boys, who are the Demon 144 00:08:15,639 --> 00:08:20,040 boy group. Uh there's this whole wordplay in Korean supposedly 145 00:08:20,079 --> 00:08:24,160 about how Saja means lying, but it also seems to 146 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:29,040 reference uh, you know this these spirits, and they also 147 00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:31,120 are related to the Grim Reapers the way they dress, 148 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:33,159 especially in the last song, the way they're dressed or 149 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,639 dressed kind of as as these Grim Reapers figure. And 150 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,000 so their first song that they come to sing, you know, 151 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,559 to get the Hunterricks fan is the song called Soda Pop, 152 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,559 which is about basically saying I'm going to consume you. 153 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,720 And it's a kind of smart way of doing it. 154 00:08:49,799 --> 00:08:54,639 This notion that you know, in some ways in theory 155 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,000 the huntreds. What they do is that they take your 156 00:08:57,039 --> 00:09:01,519 attention and they they put towards something positive, which is 157 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,039 defeating the demons, giving you confidence in yourself all of 158 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,399 that stuff. Whereas the Saja Boys, what they're doing is 159 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,720 just like the demons, they're stealing your soul by stealing 160 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:14,759 your attention, and they treat you as something to be eaten, 161 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,799 like a vampire to be consumed. And so there's all 162 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,559 this whole thread through the movie where the Saja Boys 163 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,919 what they do is, you know, as they gather the 164 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,120 fans away from the Hunter tricks, their attention is drawn into. 165 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: The Saja Boys. But that also is. 166 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: The demons coming and stealing their soul. So you see 167 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:38,200 people like looking at their phones listening to the Soja 168 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Boys song and then you see a demon coming behind 169 00:09:40,759 --> 00:09:43,840 them and like taking their souls, and so they people 170 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:45,919 take you know, these demons they come and they take 171 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:48,039 the souls and they bring them down to this this 172 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,240 satanic character that is in hell and is ruling over 173 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,799 the demons and is ruling over everybody with by let's say, 174 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:03,279 wielding their shame against them. And so then strangely enough, 175 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:05,879 what happens is, you know, as the competition kind of grows, 176 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,720 we discover that one of these characters, the main Hunter's lady, 177 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:13,720 is half demon, and so now she faces the shame, 178 00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:16,399 and because she's kind of facing this shame, she doesn't 179 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,399 know what to do, and it is tearing the group 180 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:24,159 apart and is bringing her closer to this demon boy 181 00:10:24,759 --> 00:10:27,039 and she tries to save him. Anyways, there's all this 182 00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:31,679 stuff that happens, but what's really important to notice is 183 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,559 they participate in a competition, which is the idle competition, 184 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,120 right and supposing in Korean, and it's true in many languages. 185 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,320 In French too, it's a word for a celebrity, is idle? 186 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,080 In English too? Would American idol? All of that stuff, 187 00:10:46,159 --> 00:10:48,279 this idea that is the idol. But then the Saga 188 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,039 Boys sing their final song as they're dressed as the 189 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,120 Grim Reaper, and now they really say I'm going to 190 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,799 be your idol, right, And they really use a story, 191 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,039 an image of false worship, and an image of saying, 192 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,840 you know, I'll be your God, but I will you know, 193 00:11:03,879 --> 00:11:07,919 I'll take everything from you. But it's fascinating because in 194 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:11,440 some ways it's hard to distinguish what they're doing. To 195 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,879 be honest, and Mike, what I think, it's hard to 196 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:16,279 distinguish what they're doing that from what the Huntricks are doing. 197 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 2: They're participating in this idle competition. 198 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,279 Speaker 1: They lose, and then the Saja Boys sing this idle song. 199 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,240 So what's the difference between the Saja Boys taking the 200 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:30,919 people's attention and sucking a dry basically being like vampires 201 00:11:30,919 --> 00:11:33,720 who are taking their attention for their own power and 202 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,159 feeding on people's insecurity is in shame. What's the difference 203 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:40,080 between that and the Hunterricks. I think what they're trying 204 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,919 to suggest and that in this case, in the Hunters 205 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,840 case is because the Hunterricks, you know, they they're a 206 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,399 group that love each other and they're kind of modeling 207 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:54,600 a positive relationship and they're modeling success and and kind 208 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:58,039 of you know, self confidence and all that. But of 209 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,279 course the Roomy care she is half demon, and so 210 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:07,960 this is when things get very very weird because she 211 00:12:08,159 --> 00:12:09,879 has to deal with that and the fact that she 212 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,919 have demon It's something she can't stop. In some ways, 213 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,080 this idea in somebody's that there's some secret that she 214 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,879 has that she's trying to repress, and there's this shameful 215 00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:21,320 thing in her life that she's trying to hide and 216 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,240 to repress, so she keeps hiding. That's why she tries 217 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:28,000 to overperform, and then ultimately she can't hold it anymore, 218 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,039 and she becomes this kind of weird hybrid demon with 219 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,960 two different colored eyes. And then it looks like it's 220 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,039 all going to break apart, you know, the characters are 221 00:12:37,039 --> 00:12:39,559 replaced by demons the other band members, and it looks 222 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,799 like everything is going to fall apart, and that's when 223 00:12:44,039 --> 00:12:48,559 they finally sing the last song. And in the last 224 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,679 song you really get a sense, you could say, of 225 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,080 what the problem is, you could say, or how can 226 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,320 I say this? Of why this is a caricature true 227 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,480 spiritual battle or true the true spiritual life. The last 228 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,039 song is called what It Sounds Like, And in this 229 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,960 song you realize that the character Roomy has to come 230 00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:16,600 to terms with what she is. And there's a weird moment, 231 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,080 you know, kind of in that song where the male 232 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,679 character sacrifices himself, and he sacrifices himself. Of course, he's 233 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,840 in more trouble than she is because he's done these 234 00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:31,159 horrible things and all through the movie he's basically like 235 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,320 stealing people's souls. 236 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,159 Speaker 2: It would be very hard for him to have a. 237 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: Positive arc except to do exactly what he did, which 238 00:13:38,039 --> 00:13:40,399 is sacrificed himself. But then he says this weird thing, 239 00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:43,039 and he says, I give my soul to you, which 240 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,080 is very odd thing to do as he's kind of dying. 241 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,440 And then as they sing this last song, the Hunterricks 242 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,799 start to wield people's souls and they gather all these 243 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,639 souls together and you see this light coming out of 244 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,519 people's bodies, and they wheeld these people's souls in order 245 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:08,120 to finally defeat the satanic character. But you know, at 246 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,200 the beginning there was the sense that they were trying 247 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,559 to create the golden hon moon, right, this golden field, 248 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,159 this golden pattern that would hold back the evil patterns 249 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,039 or the demonic patterns. But now they of course create 250 00:14:23,399 --> 00:14:27,120 what do you expect. They create a rainbow on moon 251 00:14:27,639 --> 00:14:30,919 and you can see all of these colors coming out 252 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,559 of people, and then they create the rainbow had moon. 253 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:39,360 And then in the song, Rumy sings about how you 254 00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:43,519 know she was shattered into all these pieces, and you 255 00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:45,799 know she was ashamed and she was hiding. But now 256 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:48,600 no more lies. Now we tell the truth. And now 257 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,000 I see the beauty in the broken glass, and now 258 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:56,159 I see the light refracted in the jagged edges, and 259 00:14:56,399 --> 00:15:00,320 you realize that basically this is a coming out out 260 00:15:00,759 --> 00:15:06,240 scene where she is basically saying, I am no longer 261 00:15:06,279 --> 00:15:08,399 going to be ashamed of what I am. I am 262 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,559 no longer going to hide what I am. But all 263 00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:14,720 this brokenness and this, these these things that are fragmented 264 00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:17,399 in me, they're part of me, and therefore I will 265 00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:23,039 put them out there. Now, this is of course a 266 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,600 huge difference, and this is where a lot of Christians 267 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,240 they become confused, because I've seen people, you know, say 268 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,120 that this is a Christian story. And like I said, 269 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,240 there are some elements of it that are similar to 270 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,039 kind of Christian thinking, but the basic trope of it, 271 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:45,759 or the basic idea of thinking that the way in 272 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,679 order the way to deal with the shame of our sins, 273 00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:51,039 or the shame of the things that we that are 274 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,360 holding us back, or that. 275 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: Are that are are you know, in the. 276 00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: Shame of our parents or the shame is in some 277 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:00,440 ways to say, this is me, and I I'm going 278 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,559 to put it out there, and I'm going to not 279 00:16:02,759 --> 00:16:03,879 be ashamed of it. 280 00:16:03,919 --> 00:16:05,559 Speaker 2: I'm going to show it to the world. 281 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: Right, and then we'll have this refracted rainbow one moon, 282 00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:13,480 which will be the real pattern that will hold back 283 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:17,159 the demons. That is a deep mistake. It's a deep 284 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:23,320 mistake in many ways. The best way to understand why 285 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,279 it is a mistake, because it's very simple structure, right, 286 00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:31,879 it is that when we are together, it doesn't matter 287 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,639 in what situation. If we are together in a team 288 00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:40,759 that builds robots, then while we're in that team, what 289 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,720 we will do is we will emphasize the things that 290 00:16:43,879 --> 00:16:47,279 join us together. We will emphasize the aspects of us 291 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,639 that are part of the way that we come together. 292 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,000 That is how society functions when we go outside, when 293 00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:54,279 we encounter our friends. 294 00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:56,399 Speaker 2: When you go to school, what we're doing. 295 00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:01,639 Speaker 1: Is we are putting in front the aspects of us, 296 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,839 of our behaviors, of our thought, of our actions, right, 297 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,960 and even of our identity that can participate in the 298 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,119 common good. And so if I'm at school, I don't 299 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,519 do the things that I do at home when I'm 300 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:17,359 lazing around. 301 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 2: Right, if I go to school, I don't. 302 00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: Wear my pajamas, you know, I don't sit there and snack, 303 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,880 or I don't stream whatever movies, or I don't play 304 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,079 video games or whatever people do at home. 305 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: That is more and other things. You don't do that 306 00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:31,319 when you are in. 307 00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: A space where that's not appropriate, and if you did, 308 00:17:34,079 --> 00:17:36,839 it would be shameful, and that is what shame is for. 309 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 2: Shame has a function shame. 310 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,279 Speaker 1: The function of shame is to help you understand what 311 00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:47,000 it is that can participate in the unity of a 312 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:50,119 group and what can't right. And so there are certain 313 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,480 things that are shameful. For example, the behaviors of the 314 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,559 main male character are shameful because they break apart as family, 315 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,720 because they break apart society. Most of our sins are 316 00:18:01,759 --> 00:18:05,079 shameful because they do that. There are other things that 317 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,480 are shameful to us that are shameful because they're only 318 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,400 shameful if they're not in their appropriate place. Going to 319 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,720 the bathroom and doing the things you do there is 320 00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:15,720 totally normal when you do them there, but if you 321 00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:19,200 did them in the living room, then that would be shameful. 322 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,119 And so we really have to understand what shame is 323 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,519 for and what shame functions. And the solution to shame 324 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,759 is not to say I'm going to take a dump 325 00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:30,599 in the living room. 326 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,759 Speaker 2: That is not the solution. Coming out and showing all. 327 00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:36,799 Speaker 1: Of your insides and all of your idiosyncrasies is not 328 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,599 the solution to shame. The solution to shame is to 329 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,400 understand what things are in what place and what part. 330 00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:51,119 If we deny the darker aspects of ourselves, that is, 331 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,079 of course, it will create the voice of demons in 332 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,079 your ears, because the demons they accuse. That's what the 333 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,880 satan is, right, The satan is the accuser is the 334 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,799 one that comes and says, oh, you're guilty of this, 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,079 You're not good enough, you're not you know, you shouldn't 336 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,839 be here, all of that. But the answer is it 337 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,440 to say, well, yes, I should be here, and here 338 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,680 are all my faults and I'm not going to be 339 00:19:13,759 --> 00:19:15,799 ashamed of them anymore. That is not the way to 340 00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:19,640 do it. The way to go through this is humility. 341 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,279 Is to understand that, no, you're right, that you are 342 00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:27,799 not completely worthy to be wherever it is that you are, 343 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,279 that you are not you don't have everything you need 344 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,799 to be in the place that you are, But that 345 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:37,720 it's not through this like pride of all your idiosyncrasies 346 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,519 right in some ways, it is to take the position 347 00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:43,160 that you are seriously and to do the best you 348 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,400 can with all the brokenness that you have does it 349 00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:49,920 mean putting that brokenness out there and trauma dumping on everybody. 350 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,319 What it means is to understand that you're right, you 351 00:19:53,319 --> 00:19:56,240 shouldn't be there. You know, none of us are worthy, 352 00:19:56,279 --> 00:19:58,880 none of us are worthy of the positions that we 353 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,680 have ultimately, because we all are broken, and it's true 354 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,960 that we are these broken, these broken figures. But the answer, 355 00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:07,519 like I said, is to say, therefore, I will take 356 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,480 very seriously the fact that despite my brokenness, I'm here, 357 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,319 Despite my brokenness, there are people that love me despite 358 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:14,960 my brokenness. 359 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 2: There are people that care. 360 00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: For me, that are willing to be my friends, that 361 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,559 are willing to hire me, that are willing to be 362 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,359 that And I will therefore be the best version of 363 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:30,000 myself that I can be. As I was watching K 364 00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:32,880 Pop Demon Hunters and I was seeing, of course Christians, 365 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,079 some of them being extremely angry at it and some 366 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,640 of it being strangely seduced by the movie, I was thinking, 367 00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:42,079 isn't it time that we take back our stories? Isn't 368 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,039 it time that, as you know, people who care about 369 00:20:46,039 --> 00:20:49,599 the most important things stop only complaining about culture or 370 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,359 commenting on culture, but start making culture ourselves. And that 371 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,279 is why I've spent the last few years trying to 372 00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:58,359 retell the fair tales in the most beautiful way possible. 373 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,599 And right now we have put out our third book, 374 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:05,480 which is Rapunzel, beautifully illustrated by Heather Pollington. It is 375 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,480 in some ways this story itself, but in that story, 376 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,200 you're going to start to see how this series of 377 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,920 fairy tales we're putting alcohol tales for once and ever, 378 00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:16,400 is going to bring the fairy tales together in a 379 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,680 way that you never could have imagined. And so go 380 00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:24,400 to rapunzelbook dot com and you can get your book today. 381 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,319 It will ship in a few days and you will 382 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:31,440 have it very soon. And so I think that that's 383 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,440 why this movie is depth is playing into this weird, 384 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,160 this weird kind of self esteem aesthetic that we've seen, 385 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:43,039 and this self esteem aesthetic, and what's good is that 386 00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:46,640 you can see how the self esteem aesthetic this idea 387 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,680 that my sins I should be proud of my sins, 388 00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:53,400 that my shame is I should in some ways stop 389 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,119 pretending and show the things that are shameful in a 390 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,279 way that is in public, and that is is almost 391 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:05,079 like as if I'm proud of my my shameful situation. 392 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,880 But that is a serious mistake and it leads to 393 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,319 a lot of the chaos that we've seen, you know, 394 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,359 and it leads to it leads to pride stuff, and 395 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,720 it leads to all of that, and so and so. Yeah, 396 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:21,240 and so I hope that you that this was helpful. 397 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:23,440 I hope that it can help you kind of see 398 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,519 what the story is about. Like I said, you know, 399 00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:28,359 it's interesting because I still. 400 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 2: Like the movie. 401 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,079 Speaker 1: I mean, this is so pervasive in our culture. In 402 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,160 some ways, it was interesting because things have become so 403 00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:40,400 bad in our culture that simply having a movie where 404 00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:44,279 there are there are girls and boys attracted to each 405 00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:48,519 other is so rare now that it's like, wow, okay, 406 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,119 this is this actually seems better than a lot of 407 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,079 the slop that we've been that we've been watching. And 408 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,960 in some ways a movie that makes us understand the 409 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,799 reality of the demonic and the reality of the relationship 410 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,359 between our sins, our shame and you know, these intelligences 411 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,200 and these voices that whisper in our ear and that 412 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:16,000 kind of take our energy from us. Also the understanding 413 00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:20,319 of the relationship between spirits and attention and how you know, 414 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,400 the manifestation of spirits are related to worship, right to 415 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,640 what it is that we pay attention to, and that 416 00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:32,640 is how that is how those things manifest themselves in 417 00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:35,480 our life. All of that is actually quite interesting and 418 00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,759 something that I thought was quite was pretty coherent. 419 00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:39,319 Speaker 2: Of course, the. 420 00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: Only thing you could say, in some ways, there's only 421 00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:43,240 one mistake in the movie. 422 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,279 Speaker 2: It's a pretty central one, but there's only one. 423 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: Mistake is that the the the idea of fans that 424 00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:54,000 give attention to celebrities is a parody of how we 425 00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:57,119 pay attention or how we give attention and how we 426 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,240 follow or how we model ourselves on people that are 427 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,279 above us in the true sense, right of course, saints, heroes, 428 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,640 people that have done so much to build our world, 429 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,359 and then ultimately, of course God, who is above us 430 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,160 and who is the source. 431 00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:16,079 Speaker 2: Of all of us. And in some ways the air 432 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,279 that we see. 433 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,799 Speaker 1: In the movie of the manner in which the main 434 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,599 character deals with her shame and her demons, is one 435 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,799 of the reasons why I struggle with Youung, with the 436 00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:36,440 psychologist Jung, because it is this notion of integrating the shadow, right, 437 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,640 this notion of in some ways seeing that the shadow 438 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,200 is part of you and embracing it to some extent 439 00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:47,079 and integrating it properly. And this is of course a 440 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,119 serious mistake. It's a mistake. It's a very basic mistake 441 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,160 because it's close. 442 00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:54,839 Speaker 2: To the real world. 443 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: It's close to the idea, the Christian idea of being 444 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,160 truly honest about the thoughts and sins and things that 445 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:07,200 devour you, but then being humble about it, right then 446 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,839 use it, letting that humble you, and letting that prevent 447 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,480 you in some ways from being prideful and arrogant and 448 00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:17,359 thinking that you are completely in control, and leading you 449 00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:22,319 to confession, leading you to transformation. But this is not 450 00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:25,640 at all the same as the idea of, you know, 451 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,039 embracing your dark side and integrating it in the best 452 00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:34,839 possible way. That particular aesthetic is one of the reasons 453 00:25:35,079 --> 00:25:38,160 why we have this kind of self esteem problem that 454 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,960 we've been led to in the twentieth and twenty first century. 455 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,400 And so, yeah, so I hope this was helpful to 456 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,319 help you understand the movie and why it's so, why 457 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,039 it's making the rounds, and why so many people are 458 00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:53,519 attracted and interested in it. 459 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 2: And I'll talk to you very soon. Bye bye. 460 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,559 Speaker 1: If you enjoy these videos and podcasts, Please go to 461 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,319 the Symbolic world dot com website and see how you 462 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,480 can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers 463 00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:08,480 with perks. There are apparel and books to purchase, So 464 00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:10,640 go to the symbolic world dot com and thank you 465 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,720 for your support.