Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Costin's news
Speaker 1: radio Try Well.
Speaker 2: Today, the Massachusetts State Supreme Court, in their infinite wisdom,
Speaker 2: decided that the Massachusetts MBTA Communities Act is constitutional and
Speaker 2: can be enforced by the Attorney General. But there was
Speaker 2: a big caveat, and so a story that we have
Speaker 2: covered now for well really just about a year has
Speaker 2: reached the big fork in the road, and we have
Speaker 2: two guests tonight who are going to talk about it.
Speaker 2: One is Denny Swinson. She is a Milton resident. The
Speaker 2: town of Milton is steadfast in its opposition to this
Speaker 2: piece of legislation. This legislation which is imposing obligations on
Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy seven communities are in Massachusetts, and
Speaker 2: one of the attorneys on the case, Attorney Paul Hogan.
Speaker 2: Denny Swinson, welcome to Nightside. You've been here before. Attorney
Speaker 2: Paul Hogan. Welcome for your debut here on Nightside. How
Speaker 2: are you this evening, Attorney Hogan.
Speaker 3: I'm good, Dan, thank you, thank you for having me
Speaker 3: on tonight.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to get hi Danny. Okay, Attorney Hogan,
Speaker 2: I get to you in a couple of seconds. I
Speaker 2: want to start off with Denny Swinson. Danny, you have
Speaker 2: articulated before Milton's concern and we know that Milton voters
Speaker 2: not only have actually voted this, this a proposal cooperation
Speaker 2: in position. Well, however you want to characterize it down
Speaker 2: at the equivalent of a town meeting. But I think
Speaker 2: you also, if I'm not mistaken, have changed the members
Speaker 2: of the Bordist selectment a little bit. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is a very important issue in the in the town
Speaker 2: of Milton. Why is that? Can you just sum it
Speaker 2: up what the opposition is and then I want to
Speaker 2: talk to attorney about the implications of today's decision.
Speaker 4: Oh sure, thank you so much for having us. Yes,
Speaker 4: in Milton, we have been trying to work with the
Speaker 4: state for years to address some of the issues that
Speaker 4: are preventing us from meeting the goals of the legislation.
Speaker 4: It really comes down to this one size fits all
Speaker 4: approach does not work for Milton. And I'm learning from
Speaker 4: over thirty other towns that they've been having the same
Speaker 4: sort of hardship that Milton has been having in trying
Speaker 4: to work through these guidelines. And you know, the headline
Speaker 4: that I take away from reading the opinion and the
Speaker 4: court order coming out of the SJAC today is that
Speaker 4: Milton did not violate the law. Milton did not violate
Speaker 4: the Act, and the state has been enforcing illegal guidelines.
Speaker 4: I think those are the biggest takeaways for me. And
Speaker 4: you know, I think one of the key sentences is
Speaker 4: in the conclusion that the hlc's current guidelines were not
Speaker 4: promulgated in accordance with the Administrative Procedure Act. And I'm
Speaker 4: quoting this from the s jc's conclusion, we declare them
Speaker 4: ineffective and as such, presently unenforceable. I think this is
Speaker 4: really big news, and I'm happy to share it with
Speaker 4: you tonight.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that so, Attorney counselor I look at this
Speaker 2: situation as a political effort. This this is going to
Speaker 2: benefit developers, and developers support politicians. And I know that
Speaker 2: it passed while Governor Baker was our governor and it
Speaker 2: is being implemented by Governor Healy. But this, to me,
Speaker 2: I always thought, and I am not I'm a lawyer,
Speaker 2: but I'm not at your level in terms of this case. Certainly,
Speaker 2: I all we thought that zoning provisions were sort of
Speaker 2: sacro saycd H and that as long as communities applied
Speaker 2: them fairly, meaning they did not discriminate against people and
Speaker 2: know its constitutional rights were violated, a community could decide
Speaker 2: what type of zoning they wanted. Now, if Beacon Hill
Speaker 2: wants to tell every town in Massachusetts that they need
Speaker 2: a bowling alley and arcade and three golf courses, what's
Speaker 2: the difference.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a great point, Dan, and you know,
Speaker 3: you are right. Zoning has always been sort of the
Speaker 3: primary the power was with the local communities outside of
Speaker 3: being an attorney. You know, I was the political head
Speaker 3: of the Watertown government and we rezoned that town. So
Speaker 3: zoning was always the purview of the local communities here.
Speaker 3: You know, I think think you talk about a political view.
Speaker 3: There seems to be this great desire to just increase housing,
Speaker 3: but there's a danger that, you know, the ends just
Speaker 3: they think the ends justify the means, and they bypass
Speaker 3: the requirements for these kinds of rules. I mean, they
Speaker 3: just really bypass the Administrative Procedure Act. I represent fourteen
Speaker 3: small businesses. They're really severely impacted by these regulations, and
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, it seems like that the agency just
Speaker 3: didn't seem to value or care about these particular requirements
Speaker 3: from the Administrative Procedure Act.
Speaker 2: Are those fourteen small businesses spread out amongst one hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy seven communities. Are they all primarily located in Milton?
Speaker 3: They are not?
Speaker 5: Actually, I believe that I'm this counted.
Speaker 3: I think that seventeen businesses Milton won a Branks, one
Speaker 3: in Quinsey and one in Hamilton.
Speaker 2: Gotch.
Speaker 3: You need to have ten businesses for this type of challenge.
Speaker 5: You know, the Supreme Judicial Court ask for amaricus.
Speaker 3: Briefs back in March of this year, and these small
Speaker 3: businesses got together and they had ME prepared a brief
Speaker 3: for them, citing the lack of attention to the requirements
Speaker 3: from the Administrative Procedure Act about small businesses.
Speaker 2: Okay, Now, today the governor celebrated the decision and said
Speaker 2: that these guidelines would be written and in place and
Speaker 2: effective by Friday. Tomorrow's a holiday, federal holiday, as I recall,
Speaker 2: And to me, that seems to be somewhat ambitious. And
Speaker 2: I assume that whatever is written and presented will ultimately
Speaker 2: also be litigated or would I be wrong on that.
Speaker 6: Counselor well, it certainly would be the kid, because what's required,
Speaker 6: Dan is that they're supposed to develop a plan for
Speaker 6: small business.
Speaker 3: And hold hearings, and you're not going to.
Speaker 5: Have a meaning co hearing by Friday. So it seems instance.
Speaker 3: Here and not really valuing what happened today.
Speaker 5: I agree with Day.
Speaker 3: I mean, the governor and Attorney General seem to celebrate
Speaker 3: the decision, but really the Supreme Judicial Court came down
Speaker 3: and said that these these regulations are no good, not unfortuable.
Speaker 3: So that's a that's a full stop, and I think
Speaker 3: they have to return to the detailed procedures of the
Speaker 3: Administrative Procedure Act.
Speaker 2: Okay, we are we're talking about a decision today by
Speaker 2: the Massachusetts States Supreme Court. I know that if you
Speaker 2: continue to listen, folks will get you up to speed.
Speaker 2: Her My guests Denny Swinson, a Milton resident who is
Speaker 2: very much opposed to this. She's in the majority within
Speaker 2: the town of Milton, and also Attorney Paul Hogan, who
Speaker 2: is representing some seventeen small businesses. Fourteen of these businesses
Speaker 2: are in Milton, but three others are in other communities
Speaker 2: here in Massachusetts. And we're going to just talk about
Speaker 2: this with them a little bit more briefly, a little
Speaker 2: bit on the other side, but I invite you to
Speaker 2: call and whether you live in Milton or in any
Speaker 2: of the other one hundred and seventy seven communities, some
Speaker 2: of which have actual NBTA service and some of which
Speaker 2: are merely contiguous to towns that have NBTA service, and
Speaker 2: another set of communities are contiguous to the towns that
Speaker 2: are directly contiguous. So it's it's complicated, and we'll try
Speaker 2: to keep it straight for you. And if you'd like
Speaker 2: to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four
Speaker 2: ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty,
Speaker 2: we get to as many calls, as many points of
Speaker 2: view as possible right here on Nightside. After a couple
Speaker 2: of very quick messages.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: We're talking with the two guests about the MBTA Communities Act.
Speaker 2: Now again, the Healthy Administration is celebrating this as they
Speaker 2: would you would think it as a total victory. But
Speaker 2: my guest, Danny Swanson, who is from Milton, and Attorney
Speaker 2: Paul Hogan see it quite differently, very quickly, if I could,
Speaker 2: Denny and I want to get to as many phone
Speaker 2: calls as possible amongst your supporters in Milton and in
Speaker 2: other communities today. What's been the reaction to this decision
Speaker 2: as it's been reported. Do you think people understand the
Speaker 2: how that it has been reported, perhaps not as accurately
Speaker 2: as it should be.
Speaker 4: That's a great question, Dan, I've been following this, you know,
Speaker 4: Milton's been the citizen of Milton. I've been working really
Speaker 4: hard on this for a couple of years now, and
Speaker 4: I really feel like, you know, a year ago, Milton
Speaker 4: was catching up with a lot of the issues that
Speaker 4: are before us. And now, you know, in the last year,
Speaker 4: I've seen the other towns sort of catching up. I
Speaker 4: really saw a lot of momentum building in September and
Speaker 4: through the fall when things had to come to a
Speaker 4: vote to town meeting, you just saw the learning curve
Speaker 4: just keep going at a pretty good clip. The momentum.
Speaker 4: You know, the citizens seem to have the momentum on
Speaker 4: this one. Now.
Speaker 2: Attorney Hogan, do you think that the court I was
Speaker 2: not in court for the arguments that I'm sure you
Speaker 2: were involved in quite heavily. Do you think that the judges,
Speaker 2: the justices on the State Supreme Court understood the implications
Speaker 2: of this act as it has been constructed, meaning yeah,
Speaker 2: everybody wants to see more housing, great, but to basically
Speaker 2: impose it and relate it to the MBTA, the implications
Speaker 2: for a lot of these communities is going to be
Speaker 2: an explosion in the number of kids they haven't that
Speaker 2: they will have to educate publicly in public schools. That's
Speaker 2: going to mean more teacher, is going to mean perhaps
Speaker 2: more buildings. I mean, there's some economic consequences down the
Speaker 2: line here above and beyond more housing units in the community,
Speaker 2: there's some financial implications and the judges. Did the justices
Speaker 2: seem to either address that or be aware of that
Speaker 2: or was that even a factor in the arguments of
Speaker 2: the briefs?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did this fine point at the end of
Speaker 3: the decision. It's not just a small business impact plan
Speaker 3: wasn't developed. The law requires that they also do a
Speaker 3: fiscal analysis both for the first year, second year, and
Speaker 3: then for five years. So the agency should have done
Speaker 3: a fiscal analysis about the impact of this project in
Speaker 3: the first year, second in five years. And you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3: I mean, here, you know the impact on the police
Speaker 3: and fire, the need for more people. That there was
Speaker 3: talking Milton that we would need a new fire station
Speaker 3: for twenty five hundred more units in the East Milton area.
Speaker 3: The water and sewer is already its limit, you know.
Speaker 3: The schools, as you mentioned, they're talking about building a
Speaker 3: six school here already in Builton. They did mention sort
Speaker 3: of in the last page that one of the requirements
Speaker 3: of the administrative procedure at the so called APA is
Speaker 3: that you'll file a fiscal statement. So the justices did
Speaker 3: at least acknowledge that to your point, But I don't
Speaker 3: think overall in the big body the decision because one
Speaker 3: of the reasons I'm on tonight is because the brief
Speaker 3: that the small businesses filed was the one that really
Speaker 3: was the slice that calls the court to say that
Speaker 3: the regulations can't be enforced. But there are other parts
Speaker 3: of the brief, and Denny was working on this with
Speaker 3: a lot of people that really talked about the impact,
Speaker 3: and I think the court missed it there. I think
Speaker 3: the court doesn't seem to grasp or what a terrific
Speaker 3: impact this would have on some communities and parts of
Speaker 3: our committee here in Milton.
Speaker 2: The court also did not I read the decision. I
Speaker 2: didn't read it as I would. I mean, I read
Speaker 2: it carefully, but I like to read decisions three or
Speaker 2: four times carefully. I didn't see that they talked much
Speaker 2: about the penalties that are associated with this law. They
Speaker 2: talked a lot about whether or not the Attorney General
Speaker 2: could enforce the law, and by implication, I guess the
Speaker 2: funding that Milton residents and resident taxpayers would be deprived of,
Speaker 2: or any community would be deprived of. It's very much
Speaker 2: a carrot and a stick. Not only will we hit
Speaker 2: you over the head with the stick, but we'll also
Speaker 2: you're not going to get any of these carrots. And
Speaker 2: these are tax dollars that people have in Milton and
Speaker 2: elsewhere paid into the state. The court didn't seem to
Speaker 2: go into that in much much depth or detail. Or
Speaker 2: did I miss it?
Speaker 7: I'm go ahead, I answering, Oh no, I noticed something.
Speaker 4: It's interesting. In the final footnote number twenty three, it
Speaker 4: says I'm trying to boil it down for you, but
Speaker 4: as HLC will need to promulgate guidelines consistent with the
Speaker 4: administrative procedural requirements, those new guidelines may differ from the
Speaker 4: ones presently in place. We need not reach whether the
Speaker 4: existing guidelines are consistent with the Act. So in other words,
Speaker 4: it's like the justices are acknowledging we're not going to
Speaker 4: evaluate whether or not the penalties that the that the
Speaker 4: guidelines continually added on too are consistent, because we've already
Speaker 4: told you the guidelines are unenforceable and therefore they're going
Speaker 4: to need to be repromulgated, and therefore therefore we're not
Speaker 4: going to evaluate them. We're just telling you. Yeah, that's
Speaker 4: the way that I read that footnote. I thought that
Speaker 4: was interesting because, as you might recall, Dan, it started
Speaker 4: out in the Legislative Act as four funds that towns
Speaker 4: would opt out of, in effect, if they didn't do
Speaker 4: what they would lose those four funds. And then as
Speaker 4: as we went through our year, Milton went through our
Speaker 4: year and finally got to tail meetings, the guidelines, we're
Speaker 4: adding additional funds, and it went from four to seven,
Speaker 4: to thirteen, and then it got up to twenty by
Speaker 4: the you know, it just kept growing. So those those
Speaker 4: guidelines that were added are not enforceable, so they're they're
Speaker 4: not gonna, you know, find a decision on whether or
Speaker 4: not they were consistent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like saying that you've been convicted of something
Speaker 2: and the penalty calls for, you know, two to three years,
Speaker 2: but we're going to hit you with twelve twelve, twelve
Speaker 2: years or twenty years, whatever we might decide to do.
Speaker 2: It seems a little unfair. Council. A quick comment on you,
Speaker 2: do you read that the same way as as Denny
Speaker 2: reads it.
Speaker 3: I do. And there was some talk in the decision
Speaker 3: that Milton had said, well, you know, we can opt
Speaker 3: out and not get these funds. But there was you know,
Speaker 3: not clear to me executing what the what the ESJC
Speaker 3: was saying that what what are the enforcement actions I
Speaker 3: guess requiring the town to create this zoning district. It
Speaker 3: seems unclear that there was any anything there at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the reference was that that they could
Speaker 2: be enforcement inequity, and I don't, frankly, frankly understand what
Speaker 2: they mean by that. I do understand what equity means
Speaker 2: as opposed to at law, but it was there were
Speaker 2: there were some holes in the decision. So we'll we'll see.
Speaker 2: We're going to get to phone calls. Denny an attorney hole,
Speaker 2: and I hope you both can stay there six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty. Those lines are full. However, if you want
Speaker 2: to take advantage of a couple of lines one other
Speaker 2: line six one seven, nine three one, ten thirty, we
Speaker 2: would get as many people in as possible, not looking
Speaker 2: for speeches, looking either for questions or or or sixcinct
Speaker 2: comments as to how you feel about not only today's decision,
Speaker 2: but this MBTA Communities Act in general. It was interesting today.
Speaker 2: I was reading one press release from the Pioneer Institute
Speaker 2: and they they're thrilled about it. And that's a very
Speaker 2: interesting organization. It's generally a very free market type organization,
Speaker 2: almost a libertarian aspect, and it's it was interesting to
Speaker 2: see the Pioneer Institute come down in favor of the
Speaker 2: Court's decision today. But that's that's a side note that
Speaker 2: I won't ask you guys about. We'll just take a
Speaker 2: quick break here for some news and get the phone
Speaker 2: calls right after the break. I think it's an important
Speaker 2: issue because it really does talk about how much again
Speaker 2: absent some constitutional deprivation. Obviously, none of these communities are
Speaker 2: being accused of compromising or denying any individual or group
Speaker 2: of individuals their rights. To move into their communities. This
Speaker 2: is not a redlining sort of case. This is like
Speaker 2: do it our way or the highway, and I just
Speaker 2: don't like that tone coming from Beacon Hill as a citizen.
Speaker 2: That's all. We'll be back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: If you're on night Side with Dan Ray on w
Speaker 1: B Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: We're ready to go to phones. My guest Denny Swans Swinson.
Speaker 2: She is a Milton resident who has been in the
Speaker 2: forefront of this fight against the MVTA Communities Act, And
Speaker 2: when I say against it, I think she's willing to
Speaker 2: cooperate as long as the state makes clear what is
Speaker 2: involved and just doesn't steamroll the community. That a fear characterization.
Speaker 4: Denny, Yes, that is that's that's fair. I think there,
Speaker 4: you know, there's a middle ground to be had and
Speaker 4: I am hopeful that we can take this opportunity to
Speaker 4: create an avenue, you know, talk through the tough issues,
Speaker 4: and there are tough issues in each town. In Milton,
Speaker 4: it's the misclassification of rapid transit. But as you know
Speaker 4: from having you know shows on this in another town,
Speaker 4: it's a safe access in and out, or in many
Speaker 4: towns it's the lack of hospital care or access to
Speaker 4: a hospital. In another town, I was talking to a
Speaker 4: farming community. They have serious concerns about not having enough
Speaker 4: water or access to underground water. They're a farming community,
Speaker 4: and there is no avenue to talk with the state.
Speaker 4: The state is totally insensitive to this part of their concern. So,
Speaker 4: you know, I talked to residents all the time and
Speaker 4: people from other towns, and there just needs to be
Speaker 4: an avenue for our towns to be able to address
Speaker 4: our concerns and to work together, you know, to find
Speaker 4: a middle ground and to find solutions.
Speaker 2: Let's try to find some solutions with our callers. We
Speaker 2: have attorney Paul Hogan here who's representing small businesses about
Speaker 2: seventeen small businesses, and Denny Swinson, who is an activist.
Speaker 2: I think she were now a community activist in Milton.
Speaker 2: Let's go to a couple of callers from Milton. Let
Speaker 2: me go first to Kerry, who's calling in for Milton. Carry.
Speaker 2: You are first this hour and night side with Denny
Speaker 2: Swinson and also attorney Paul Hogan. What's your question of comment?
Speaker 8: Carrie Hi Dan, thanks for taking my call. Happy New
Speaker 8: Year and happy eighteenth anniversary. Thank you for taking the call.
Speaker 8: I appreciate you covering this topic because you're really one
Speaker 8: of the few people who has been very helpful and
Speaker 8: relentless in covering and uncovering I think kind of the
Speaker 8: root cause of what's going on behind here. As you
Speaker 8: have said a couple of times on your program, previous programs,
Speaker 8: not tonight, follow the money, right, there's a lot of
Speaker 8: things going on here.
Speaker 2: Money. There's no doubt about that, Yeah.
Speaker 8: No doubt, no doubt. Yes, yes, absolutely, any good reporter
Speaker 8: knows that, right, And I really appreciated hearing Attorney Hogan
Speaker 8: come now and also speak about some of the important
Speaker 8: points about that lack of consideration of small businesses. And
Speaker 8: that's not just an issue here in Milton, but that's
Speaker 8: an issue that I hear from many people in a
Speaker 8: number of other communities, including Marshfield where I grew up.
Speaker 8: It's an issue, and it's switch it's an issue in
Speaker 8: many of the other towns. Are having the same hands
Speaker 8: that some of the towns that are grappling with the
Speaker 8: same issues.
Speaker 4: That we are.
Speaker 8: And as you accurately reported, you know, of course, this
Speaker 8: is sort of a battle for the freedom of our
Speaker 8: rights and when you speak about this here we are
Speaker 8: this will be the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of Lessington,
Speaker 8: Massachusetts is the birthplace of if you will are independence
Speaker 8: from tyranny. I feel like this is a somewhat tyrannicle, tyrannical,
Speaker 8: you know, ruth somewhat against many of our towns. Then
Speaker 8: we're all trying to do good things about providing housing, homes,
Speaker 8: you know, everything that we can. Janny brings up a
Speaker 8: lot of great points. But my question really to Governor
Speaker 8: Haley if she would ever take a question from me.
Speaker 8: I have loved in many you know, emails through her portal.
Speaker 8: If the law is truly aimed at addressing the regional
Speaker 8: housing crisis, then why is she at the same time
Speaker 8: filling up our precious few spaces for emergency housing for
Speaker 8: citizens battling you know, homelessness, addiction, the danger of the
Speaker 8: streets and places like mass and cats, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 8: et cetera, with illegal aliens. And it's sort of seems
Speaker 8: kind of ironic. Maybe, I don't know, strange that this
Speaker 8: ruling came out today. I didn't know. I don't know
Speaker 8: if Attorney Hogan or Denny expected this would come out today.
Speaker 8: I was surprised. Maybe I'm just missing it.
Speaker 2: Well, you never know. The State Supreme Court issues rulings
Speaker 2: on their own schedule. Trust me on that.
Speaker 8: They yeah, no, no, you're right, Dan, I.
Speaker 2: Realized that, Well, we'll just leave that question. I don't
Speaker 2: want to go off into a different question. Well, we
Speaker 2: can leave the questions like that, but let's if either
Speaker 2: Denny or Attorney Hogan want to address it, they can,
Speaker 2: but we can leave it as a rhetorical question, or
Speaker 2: you can comment on or Attorney Hogan.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Erry, Thank you any Hogan. I think it
Speaker 5: is more of a rhetorical question, but it is. It's
Speaker 5: a good point. I mean, if we have this type
Speaker 5: of housing crisis, it's driving them to bypass the Administrative
Speaker 5: Procedure Act. Why are we using up these other resources?
Speaker 5: Uh for people that way?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Gary,
Speaker 2: will we talk again, Thank you, Thank you, great night.
Speaker 2: Let me go next to Mark is in Milton as well.
Speaker 2: Mark next on Nsich. Go right ahead.
Speaker 5: Hey, Dan, thank you so much, and thank you for
Speaker 5: being the person over the course of the past year
Speaker 5: or so has put some light on this topic. Very
Speaker 5: few of the media outlets are covering this in an
Speaker 5: embiased manner. To say the least, I'm calling in to
Speaker 5: support my good friend Denny Swinson. I've been one of
Speaker 5: her foot soldiers, got to know her through all this,
Speaker 5: and really have enjoyed working with Denny. She kind of
Speaker 5: lit the match under this whole thing, which I think
Speaker 5: in the big picture has really gotten a lot of
Speaker 5: people across the state and the effected communities really to
Speaker 5: wake up and start to question these decisions in our government,
Speaker 5: the rubber stamping going on by this legislature, the rule
Speaker 5: by fiat which seems to be taking place from Healey,
Speaker 5: I'll leave my comments brief, but what just kind of
Speaker 5: strikes me is the insincerity and in disingenuous. Even at
Speaker 5: the break up at the top of the hour, you
Speaker 5: had comments from Andrea Campbell saying she wants to work
Speaker 5: and is willing to listen from day one, and I've
Speaker 5: been involved with this over a year now with Denny.
Speaker 5: When we've pleaded, and Denny has pleaded to talk to
Speaker 5: the Lieutenant Governor and the governor and Drisco. They stone Wall,
Speaker 5: this community did not even want to hear our concerns.
Speaker 5: There was a meeting here the night before the town
Speaker 5: wide vote that Lieutenant Governor Driscoll was on and people
Speaker 5: who were not identified, as you know, huge supporters of
Speaker 5: the MBT act were forcibly taken out of the meeting,
Speaker 5: not let in to enter because they were so afraid
Speaker 5: of having any questions or dialogue. So the fact that
Speaker 5: Campbell and Heally and Driscoll are all saying that they
Speaker 5: want to talk with communities, so far they've shown nothing
Speaker 5: but contempt for communities. And you know, a final point here,
Speaker 5: this governor just seems to have no accountability to anybody,
Speaker 5: for constituents. I've never seen a politician who who wants
Speaker 5: to go to war with the people who pay the
Speaker 5: taxes like she has. The SJC. Now she seems to
Speaker 5: have contempt for by saying, but you know, they issued
Speaker 5: this order saying that basically go back to the drawing
Speaker 5: cord and you know, you know, make these guidelines properly instituted.
Speaker 5: And she's saying, well, we'll have new ones by Friday. Well,
Speaker 5: where's the hearing's going to take place by Friday? Like
Speaker 5: like she she seems to be out of control. And
Speaker 5: the fact that finally, she you know, is spinning. This
Speaker 5: is this huge win for her or whatever. Hey, who knows,
Speaker 5: she rules by fiat, so she missed. She might not
Speaker 5: pay attention to anything anybody else says. But her administration
Speaker 5: seems to be entering a death spiral. Between the Stuart
Speaker 5: healthcare debacle, the immigration debacle, the billions of dollars that's
Speaker 5: you know, coming to cost us now another four and
Speaker 5: twenty five million dollars. She's begging the legislature for the
Speaker 5: Bluehill Capital cronyism scandal, which you know, kind of got
Speaker 5: swept under the rug her, you know, wiping away her
Speaker 5: her friends there and making sure they're not held accountable.
Speaker 5: And the eleven percent pay rate pay raise for the legislature.
Speaker 5: So she she needs to win, and she's gonna take
Speaker 5: She's gonna take her pound of flesh out of Milton. Apparently,
Speaker 5: I see no evidence that she or anybody else in
Speaker 5: that administration or the legislation of that matter of fact,
Speaker 5: will pay any heed to having any meaningful dialogue with
Speaker 5: with these communities, including Milton and all the others. I
Speaker 5: hope they do. But hooray for Denny. We got to
Speaker 5: win today. They can call it anything they want, but
Speaker 5: they're supposed to go back to the drawing board now
Speaker 5: and give towns a little bit of input and impact studies.
Speaker 5: We'll see if they do it. But thank you so
Speaker 5: much Dan for the call, and thank you Dan.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're welcome. Mark. I appreciate certainly something doing something
Speaker 2: new rules, promulgation of regulations by Friday. That seems a
Speaker 2: bit rushed. Well, we lost Paul there for a second.
Speaker 2: Paul very quick comment to Mark's point, which I'd like
Speaker 2: you to reinforce the administration basically saying, hey, we'll just
Speaker 2: write some new rules by Friday and everything's honky. Dori,
Speaker 2: I don't see that being possible.
Speaker 5: That's just in genuine I mean it's absolutely impossible. Hearings,
Speaker 5: you know, have to be scheduled usually ninety or one
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty days out front doing a fiscal study
Speaker 5: of the impact on communities for the first year, second year,
Speaker 5: and five year. I mean that takes months, probably takes
Speaker 5: a third party, large accounting management firm doing a small business.
Speaker 5: I mean absolutely, Dan, I mean when I heard that,
Speaker 5: I was like, what, because you know what the point
Speaker 5: was is that the SJAC while they opened the door
Speaker 5: and said you have the right to make this law.
Speaker 5: They said, these guidelines that these regulations have to have
Speaker 5: to go away and you have to start from scratch.
Speaker 5: But again it looked, it seems to that they never
Speaker 5: really appreciated the requirements that they have to undertake to
Speaker 5: issue these regulations, and it was really kind of a
Speaker 5: stunning statement.
Speaker 2: All right, we've got to take a quick break. We're
Speaker 2: going to be back with more phone calls here on
Speaker 2: Nightside with my guest Dennysewinson, a Milton resident and attorney
Speaker 2: Paul Hogan and represents about seventeen small businesses impacted adversely
Speaker 2: potentially by the MBTA Communities Act, and feel free to
Speaker 2: join this conversation where I've got one line opened six one,
Speaker 2: seven thirty b right back on night Side.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray line from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: We have pack lines, so I'm going to ask everybody
Speaker 2: if they can, in deference to everyone else, to try
Speaker 2: to be as concise as possible. Greg and Shrewsbury. Greg,
Speaker 2: you're next on Nightside with Denny Swinson of Milton, attorney
Speaker 2: Paul Hogan.
Speaker 7: Go right ahead, great, yeah, yeah, yeah, My question is
Speaker 7: as follows. We have a referendum election on the fourth,
Speaker 7: and I think people are minimizing the guidelines. I mean
Speaker 7: the guidelines. I think of the meat of three A.
Speaker 7: We look at what the compliant deadline was, the number
Speaker 7: of units required, which is the biggest impact to the community,
Speaker 7: So for us fifteen hundred units, the fact that they
Speaker 7: even classify somebody like Shrewsbury's an adjacent community. So I'm
Speaker 7: really trying to find out why, right what our community
Speaker 7: not vote know now, considering we have on the table
Speaker 7: a proposal that went through town meeting for a zone
Speaker 7: that is compliant to nothing, because if those compliants guidelines
Speaker 7: that's I'm missing something are gone. I see no reason
Speaker 7: for our town to move forward with adopting a zone
Speaker 7: when we have no idea of what we have to
Speaker 7: comply with.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get Attorney Hogan to briefly respond to that concerned.
Speaker 3: Attorney Hogan, I think that's a legitimate concern. I mean,
Speaker 3: the regulations that were presented by the agency have been
Speaker 3: stricken by the Supreme Judicial Court, so I think the
Speaker 3: process should start again, that new regulations have to be prepared,
Speaker 3: and you shouldn't go through the process and the other
Speaker 3: cities in town should not be proceeding on the current regulations. Greg,
Speaker 3: exactly how I see it.
Speaker 2: Great question, great answer, right to the point. Greg, keep
Speaker 2: us posted on Shrewsbury.
Speaker 5: Will you absolutely I'm well there?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks very much. Let me go next to Rita
Speaker 2: in Boston. Rita you and next on nights. I got
Speaker 2: to be quick for me. Please read it.
Speaker 9: Go right ahead, Okay, I'll try. I'm a little The
Speaker 9: only way I know about this subject is through your program,
Speaker 9: because I can't get a buster paper anywhere in Boston.
Speaker 9: But does the mbt A, it's called the mass Bay
Speaker 9: Transportation Authority. Do they go throughout the state of Massachusetts
Speaker 9: like through the Pioneer Valley.
Speaker 2: No, they serve one hundred and arguably one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventy seven communities. These are communities basically eastern Massachusetts.
Speaker 9: It's been available for this law that's been crafted for everyone.
Speaker 2: They want to oppose this law on one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventy seven communities either that have an MBTA service, or
Speaker 2: communities that contiguous to communities that have MBTA service, or
Speaker 2: even communities who are two communities away. A sort of
Speaker 2: contiguously contiguous.
Speaker 9: Like down to the Fall River, or.
Speaker 2: You have to look at the map and break down
Speaker 2: all the towns for you. But it's pretty much in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: The one exception is the city Boston. They are not
Speaker 2: impacted by this. The community's more MBT service here. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fair enough, Okay.
Speaker 9: It just seems that imposing these so called solutions on
Speaker 9: these communities is terrible.
Speaker 2: It's that's that's the sense of that's my sense of it.
Speaker 2: I think it's unfair because I think local communities. The
Speaker 2: one right that local communities have is to zwe if
Speaker 2: so if they don't want to have ten liquor stores
Speaker 2: in in in Wellesley, they can do that. I don't
Speaker 2: even think Wellesley has a liquor store. As a matter
Speaker 2: of fact. I think that's part of the You got
Speaker 2: to go to Natick if you want to find a
Speaker 2: package store still, I believe.
Speaker 9: And then you've got to deal with developers who want
Speaker 9: to put in these big, ugly, horrible buildings, you know,
Speaker 9: these concrete blocks. You know, it's just not right.
Speaker 2: Rita, I gotta let you run because I got four
Speaker 2: more behind you. Thank you, Thank you much appreciate your call.
Speaker 2: Thank you Okay, great night, good night. Let me go
Speaker 2: to Brian and Milton. Brian Wilton's dominating our calls here,
Speaker 2: you go right.
Speaker 10: Ahead, Thank you for having me on my concern. You
Speaker 10: see in the news that we lost because of the
Speaker 10: constitutionality was held by the court. Well, I look at
Speaker 10: it completely differently. You see, the constitutionality of the original
Speaker 10: law that was written and by the legislature is fine.
Speaker 10: It's when the guidelines were promulgated that screwed it all up.
Speaker 10: So our concern was the constitutionality of the guidelines not
Speaker 10: given towns of voice, and that that's why I believe
Speaker 10: Milton won today with the leadership of Dennis Winston. I
Speaker 10: also find that the governor and the age are both
Speaker 10: just ingenuous about this whole thing. They didn't try to
Speaker 10: work with the town, and now to try to have
Speaker 10: an emergency act this weekend, it's almost like they avoided
Speaker 10: the law in the first place, the SJAC called them
Speaker 10: out on it, and now they're trying to avoid the
Speaker 10: law again by declaring some kind of housing emergency so
Speaker 10: that they can force uh new laws or guidelines on
Speaker 10: us without legislature approval. So it's just and then when
Speaker 10: they talk about all these towns that have complied, they
Speaker 10: forget to mention that they had a gun in their head.
Speaker 10: You know, if you put a gun to my head,
Speaker 10: I would go along with anything you asked of.
Speaker 2: Me, so particularly if that gun is loaded.
Speaker 10: Agreed. They were forced to agree because they were afraid
Speaker 10: of what was going to happen to them.
Speaker 2: And Brian, I think you're you're you're agreeing with everybody
Speaker 2: on the panel here and with your host. Uh and
Speaker 2: I thank you for your call, but I want to
Speaker 2: get to a couple more folks, and I hope you'll
Speaker 2: appreciate us. We're gonna we will stick on this topic. Okay,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. We'll go now one more in Milton.
Speaker 2: Andrea is in Milton Andrea. You're next on Nights Side.
Speaker 2: You're own Denny Swanson and Attorney Paul Hogan, go right ahead.
Speaker 4: Hi, thank you, Dan. Can you hear me?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 11: With all my might, I will avoid various aspects of
Speaker 11: this discussion, but at the end of as someone who
Speaker 11: lives in East Melton and has been at Anny side
Speaker 11: with huge appreciation for what she's done and her dedication,
Speaker 11: I just want to reflect on outside of anybody's opinion
Speaker 11: of what the decision actually meant today that in this
Speaker 11: time that that citizens voted, know, there's been so much
Speaker 11: more awareness across towns across the state that one of
Speaker 11: it happened. You know, it's very hard for people to
Speaker 11: know what's going on at all times when things are
Speaker 11: just kind of swept through, and so I'm very grateful
Speaker 11: to the town, most especially to Denny for drawing attention
Speaker 11: to it, because whatever it means to redraft the guidelines,
Speaker 11: which I think is a bigger deal than most are
Speaker 11: given credit to.
Speaker 2: I hate to do this to you. I hate to
Speaker 2: do this to you, but we're flat running out of time,
Speaker 2: and that's the problem with sometimes when the ten o'clock
Speaker 2: hour draws near. So I think you've made your point.
Speaker 2: I think you've made it well. Hats off to Denny Swanson,
Speaker 2: and hats off also to Attorney Paul Hogan. And let
Speaker 2: us hope that through programs like this, people will understand
Speaker 2: exactly what happened today. Andrea, thank you for your call
Speaker 2: very much.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Dan, You're welcome.
Speaker 2: Denny Swatson, thank you for your continued commitment. Attorney Hogan,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for appearing tonight in the quot
Speaker 2: of public opinion, which I think is a very important
Speaker 2: court room if you get mine.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having us. Thank you, you're welcome.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Dan, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: You're very welcome again. The quote of public opinion is
Speaker 2: one that I think may may sway the day here.
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens eventually. Both viewer welcome to come
Speaker 2: back anytime. Thank you both very much for what you're doing. Well,
Speaker 2: take a break. When we get back on the other
Speaker 2: side of the nine o'clock news, we are going to
Speaker 2: talk with Todd Lyons, the National Assistant Director of Ice,
Speaker 2: and talk about maybe what's on the horizon with the
Speaker 2: change of administration in terms of immigrants who are here
Speaker 2: who have broken the law, in what their fate will be.
Speaker 2: Back on night's side right after the ten o'clock news,