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Speaker 1: Hi, Arrow, I'm trying to close. I'm trying to close

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all my other stuff so I don't so I don't

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get interruptions. How are you?

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Speaker 2: Totally fantastic? How about you?

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Speaker 1: I am doing well, you know. To be honest, I've

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had better mornings. But that's okay, that's life. Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, see, I like those off mornings because what that

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does to me is what slows down the hands of time.

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Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. Hey, Ero, I want

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to before we start, I just want to say, God,

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I really love your podcast. And I listened last night

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to your interview with the biographer of Elmore Leonard and

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that was fantastic. You know, I actually got to publish

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Elmore Leonard back when I was an editor, and listening

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to that podcast, you and I share a really cool fate. Wow,

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because your second grade teacher was the one who kind

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of led you to become a writer, right absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And what was her name, missus missus Keith.

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Speaker 1: Missus Keith. Well, mine was Missus Matthews and it was

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second grade, and she was the one who encouraged me

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to write. Wow. And I'm like, oh my god, I

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can't believe that. Isn't that incredible? That's quite an experience.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's like it's like when the medicine

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men of a Native American nation go out and you know,

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they're they're patiently walking through the crowds. They're looking for

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the next medicine man, and they see it in the

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children and the ones that are overactive, or they see

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them in their creativity, and they'll pick them at a

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very young age.

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Speaker 1: Oh that is so cool. I love that.

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Speaker 2: And so I believe that teachers so many times they

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will spot somebody who is uniquely different, but but they're

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they're they're going to try to tap into what's going on.

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Speaker 1: You're right, You're right. If a teacher is you know,

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is aware and not just going through the motions, that's

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so cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my eleventh great teacher though that See,

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I was ready. I was injured really bad because of

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hockey and uh, and I was out of school for

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several weeks, and so I was ready to just give

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it up. And so my teacher came to me and said, look,

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just come to class. I will let you write all

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you want, and when you take a test, just don't

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even put any answers down. All I want you to

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do is be in class. I need to get you graduated. Wow,

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and then wow, and then I married a teacher.

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Speaker 1: So how about that?

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Speaker 2: How about that? Well, I mean, look at what you're

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doing with this book. I mean, you know, you're reintroducing

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this this person, mister Ken Blanchard to a group of

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people that don't know Kin's journey and the positive effects

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that he has exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, you said it to the biographer of

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Elmore Leonard that you know, somebody came before you, you know,

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and to make people aware somebody came before you. And yeah,

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Ken Blanchard influenced an entire generation of leaders. He was,

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as Simon Sinek calls him, the og you know, long before,

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long before you know, the Brene Browns and the Simon

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Sinex came along, there was Ken Blanchard with the one

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minute Manager.

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Speaker 2: Now, don't you think though that I mean, we're trying

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to secretly catch people doing the right thing. We live

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in a society that wants to do the right thing

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and then hurry up and brag about it on social.

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Speaker 1: Media exactly, And that's not really what the point is.

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The point of catching people doing things right is to

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you know, lift people up right, and when when you

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praise someone, you actually increase the endorphins in their brain.

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Endorphins are a neurotransmitter and it and it actually helps

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people to perform better. You know, when you criticize, it

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shuts people down.

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Speaker 2: When you get into a project like this, how do

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you prep for it? Because I'm a show prep pig.

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Speaker 1: Oh how do ye a project like writing a biography?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, because I mean you've got to

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get it right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on, oh well, writing a biography. So

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what got me into this project was, you know, Ken

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Blanchard is an amazing person. First of all, here's this

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guy who he grew up in New York. When he

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went to school, he was told that he couldn't write,

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and he goes on to write a mega bestselling book

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that sells millions of copies around the world and completely

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revolutionizes the way people are managed to day. Then when

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he goes to college, he's a college professor and they

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tell him that he isn't particularly intelligent and he has

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no academic interest. And he goes on to develop a

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leadership role model that becomes the most influential role model

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in the world, and by his own admission he can't

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even balance his own checkbook, but he was such a

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compelling speaker. The a bunch of executives basically coerced him

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into starting his own company. And it's a global leadership

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company now that's been around for like forty five years.

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So that in itself was worth of writing a biography.

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But what really made me want to write this project

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was that here's a guy who's been teaching about how

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important love is in leadership and lifting people up. And

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he's not just saying it, he actually walks the talk arrow.

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This is a guy who is genuinely a good guy.

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And there are so many biographies, particularly of business people who,

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yeah they're brilliant and they're innovative, but they're not particularly

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good role models. And here was a chance to write

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a story about somebody who he proves that nice guys

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can finish first. And I think we need more positive

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leadership role models in the world. So totally with you know,

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that's how I get into it.

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Speaker 2: You know, one of my favorite things to do with

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the young adults at the other job that I do,

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and that is working at a grocery store, is it.

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I will go and I will sit there and I'll

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shake their hand. I'll say, that's not how you shake

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a hand. You need to have a firmer handshake and

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let people know that you have leadership quality. And when

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you do shake their hand, look at them in the eyes.

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Do not look away and see these young adults don't

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have this leadership. They don't have someone saying mmm, man,

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I wouldn't have said that. I realize you're trying to

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be funny, but you're funny. Isn't always funny?

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Speaker 1: Wow? Now see that's great. That's leadership. You know, you

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don't people often think you have to have a fancy

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title to lead. And you know you're influencing others every

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day with your podcast, so you're engaging in leadership every day.

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But teaching those kids to shake a hand correctly, you

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know that's a directive leadership style. I hope you're also

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catching them doing things right, of course, not just correcting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, in fact, and then we celebrate it.

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I mean that's why we do food tasting and we

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do all these different celebrations because I want people at

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night to be able to say, I'm on his team tonight, man,

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I'm glad to be there because people don't want to

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work at night, and so you have to create the

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atmosphere where people go, I'm jealous and I can't be there.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, it's all about creating an atmosphere.

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And you know, loving the leadership is loving your mission

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and loving your people so that they will take care

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of your customers, and then your customers take care of

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your bottom line. And it's all one big circle of goodness.

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Speaker 2: Please do not move. There's more with Martha C. Lawrence

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coming up next. The name of the book Catch People

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Doing Things Right. The author Martha C. Lawrence. I've got

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to ask you, though, for Ken to step out and

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do this what happened in his life to make this change,

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because I've always believed that what you're doing with others

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is something you wish would have been done with you.

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Speaker 1: Well, Ken had some really amazing leadership role models. His

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father retired as a rear admiral in the Navy and

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taught him some basic leadership lessons. When Ken was a

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really popular kid in school, and when he was in

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seventh grade, he won the presidency of the class and

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he went running home and he said, Mom, Dad, I

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won the presidency, aren't I great? And his dad pulled

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him aside and said, Ken, that's wonderful, But now that

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you have this fancy title of president of the class,

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don't ever use it. People follow leaders not because they

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have a title, but because they trust and respect them.

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So you know, right away what Ken took away from

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that in seventh grade was, you know, it's really not

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about and directing people. It's about being someone you can

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trust and respect.

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Speaker 2: Wow, right away, I had a flashback of Jimmy, who

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just won the Service Service Award for the month, and

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he has been bragging about that, and I keep walking

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up to him going, why why do you have to

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advertise it when really it's right there on your badge. Dude,

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you don't have to tell me. I can see it.

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I would rather be the one that congratulates you instead

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of you congratulating yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, that's a mistake so many leaders make.

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They think it's all about them, and when things go right,

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they pound themselves on the chest and think it's all

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about with them, when in fact, it's about others. So

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you know, Jim Collins talks about in his book Good

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to Great, the the level five leader who is someone

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who when things are going well, they look out the

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window and give praise to the people, and when things

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are going wrong, they look in the mirror and say

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what did I do? And they take responsibility. But a

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lot of people have that backward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're changing though, at least we're trying. Do

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you see it happening out there in the business world.

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Speaker 1: Well, I do, but not to the extent we would like.

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You know, somebody wants. The reason the book is called

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Catching People Doing Things Right, Catch People Doing Things Right,

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is because somebody asked Ken, if you could take away

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just one thing that you've taught over the years, what

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would be And that was a thing he said. You know,

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I go out there and I've been teaching this for decades.

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But people still think that leadership is a top down,

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command and control thing, when in fact it's a side

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by side thing. The world we live in today, you

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can't have that top down We're all we're all learning together.

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Things are changing so fast, and so it's really about

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encouraging each other. You know.

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Speaker 2: The one thing that I picked up about Ken was

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the fact that and I realized, we use the word teach,

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but to me, he's sharing. He shares ideas in other words,

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and it's a difference between talking at somebody and talking with.

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Speaker 1: Somebody exactly, and sharing is right. I mean, he's he's

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published seventy books over the course of his career, and

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most of those books, Yeah, you're a writer, so you'll

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appreciate this. Most of those books have been written with

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co authors. And his mom used to give him a

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hard time about that and say, Ken, why don't you

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write books by yourself and have your name on the cover.

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And he said, Mom, you know, learning is one of

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my top values, and I already know what I know.

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If I collaborate with another person, I'm going to learn

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so much and we're going to have fun together. And so,

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you know, he started the careers of a lot of

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people by co authoring books with them, giving them a platform.

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Speaker 2: He seemed to be the type of person that would,

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you know, even though he might get credit from that

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person later on in life, he'll, you know, let it

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fall off his shoulders. He's like, stop, I was just

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doing my job.

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Speaker 1: You know that's interesting you pick up on that, because

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you know, I asked him that question. I said, you know,

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why do you think you're you know, American Management Association

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called him one of the top leadership thinkers of the

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twentieth century. And I said, you know, how did you

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do all this? And he said, you know, I think

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it's more of a blessing I've received than a strategy

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I've employed. You know, he just he really doesn't take

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He's a genuinely humble person, and that right there is

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a leadership leadership modeling. You know, that kind of humility.

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Speaker 2: Isn't his style pretty much. I always call this it's watching.

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I called the silent wolf. Is what I do in

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the way that I learned more in martial arts, standing

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on the sidelines, because I could see other people making

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the mistakes, and then you go and you help correct them,

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you motivate them. And I really think that Kim was

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that way too, and in a way that he stands

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on the sideline like a silent wolf, and then he approaches.

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Speaker 1: Exactly And you know in the One Minute Manager, actually

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that's that's the third secret of the One Minute Manager.

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It was back in the old days it was called

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the one Minute reprimand you know, obviously that needed to

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be softened. The book was revised several years ago. It's

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now the one minute redirect where you watch someone and

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if they're making a mistake, you don't beat them up.

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You know he can can. You used to talk about

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the seagull ut manager, who you know, they're not around

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until someone makes a mistake and then they fly in,

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dump all over everybody, make a lot of noise and

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fly out, and you don't see them until another mistake

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is made. So you don't want to do that. You

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want to be there side by side, praising their progress,

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setting goals with them. But when they do make a mistake,

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you redirect them. You know, that's part of leadership what

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you're doing with your kids at the grocery store, you know,

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showing them, showing them and then praising them when they

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get it right.

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Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, learning to face the challenges and changes.

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You're not perfect and nobody's going to look at you

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as being perfect, but don't run away from the challenges

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and the changes exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it's progress not perfection, right, you know, none of

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us have it perfectly right the first time.

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Speaker 2: So to accept the journey, those that are listening, those

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that are reading, because we all sit there and we

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have it in our ears, we have it in our hands,

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but taking that first step. That activation requires what I

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know what it took in me, So what about people

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who are going I know, but.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm curious what did it take for you taking

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that first step?

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Speaker 2: The fact that I didn't want to live in Billings,

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Montana anymore, and I wanted to be in Los Angeles.

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And the only way I was going to make it

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to Los Angeles was I had to take it seriously

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and radio could not be a hobby. It had to

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be an adventure.

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Speaker 1: Well you know that gets to you know, Ken, like

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anybody else, that faced a lot of setbacks in his

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journey through life. And his mom, who was one of

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his great teachers, told him, you know when setbooks are

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part of life. When you run into a problem or

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a roadblock, don't put your head down and grumble, keep

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your head up and look for opportunities, which is what

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you did right going to Los Angeles. And so you know,

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he was able to turn a lot of his roadblocks

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into opportunities by just having faith in himself. And she

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also taught him she said, you know, Ken, you're not

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better than anybody else, but nobody's better than you. She said,

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there's a pearl of goodness in everyone, so dig for it.

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And you know that kind of philosophy in life really

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can open a lot of doors for you. So you know,

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it's just about having faith in the future and taking

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that first step and believing that the universe is going

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to rise up to catch you.

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Speaker 2: You bring up something that's very interesting in the way

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of keeping your head up. The way that I learned

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how to do that is I live in a forest,

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and the forest always has spiderwebs always, so I'm going

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down toward to the slow moving stream, and I was

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for some stink and reason I always look down when

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I'm walking down a hill. I looked up just in time.

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Right there in front of me was a huge black

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space at face level. If I would not have looked up,

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and that was life changing for me because it was

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telling me, you need to start looking ahead and not

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where you know what's on the ground.

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Speaker 1: That's right, keep your head up and keep looking for opportunities.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. You see, Wow, this book is you see. I mean,

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you're introducing so many things from a past that we

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can use as tools in the present.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. I mean, Ken, every chapter of the book opens

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with a Ken Blanchard quote. He's one of the most

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widely quoted experts in the world. If you you know,

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google Ken Blanchard quote quotes, you'll see all kinds of things.

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You know, feedback is the breakfast of champions. One of

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my favorites is none of us is as smart as

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all of us, right, the power of collaboration, you know.

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And one of my favorites is life is a very

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special occasion. Don't miss it, you know. That's keep your

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head up. Life is a very special occasion. We're here.

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This is such a privilege to be alive, you know,

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and living this life. And and Ken Ken has that

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joy about life and believes that leaders should inspire others

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to have joy about life.

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Speaker 2: Why aren't you hosting a podcast because you keep pulling

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from these different books and motivators and stuff like that.

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You mean, you're you're so spot on and in tune

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with what you're thinking.

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Speaker 1: Oh I am. I am not up that you You

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aro have the gift your voice and your podcast is fantastic.

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Talk about catching people doing things right. Yeah, I love

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I love the sound of your podcast. I'm a writer,

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you know, writers typically you're you're a little different. Writers

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typically like to be behind the scenes. I just am

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so passionate about what Ken Blanchard has given the world

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and who he is and his incredible story that that's

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why I'm out here promoting it.

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Speaker 2: And yet, if you really dig into the history of podcasting,

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it wasn't the comedians, it wasn't the rock stars that

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created podcasting. It was the writers. They just wanted to

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get their voice out there. Wow, I didn't know that

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started it.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Well, and more and more people are listening instead

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of reading, and that's one of the things that made

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the One Minute Manager. You know, so it's sold. I

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think it's sold die many, many, many, many millions of

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copies around the world. But Ken and his co author,

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doctor Spencer Johnson, they did some research and they found

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that people generally do not read past the first chapter

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of the book, and so they instead of writing a long, boring,

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dry business book, they wrote this simple business parable, less

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than one hundred pages, about a guy who went around

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looking for an effective manager. And you know, the publisher said,

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it's a bathtub book. You know, you're dryer water for

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the bath, you get in, you start reading the book,

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and by the time the water is cold, you're done

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with the book. You know, and so more and more

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you need these bite sized pieces of wisdom. And that's

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what's fun about Ken's books. He takes these really complex,

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well researched ideas and has an incredible gift for making

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them simple and actionable.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Where can people go to find out more about you?

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Because there's more to you than just this book.

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Speaker 1: Well, but it's not about me, Ero. I mean, I

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do have a website Martha Lawrence dot com. But if

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you want to find out about Ken Blanchard and all

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his incredible work and legacy, go to books dot com.

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And if you're interested in what his company does, which

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is to create great leaders around the world, that's Blanchard

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dot com. And of course a book is available wherever

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books are sold. So catch people doing things right, and

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definitely to your listeners today, I would just say try it.

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Catch people doing things right. See the positive impact you

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can have in someone's life.

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Speaker 2: You know what, You're going to get that award today

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because you're doing something right by promoting somebody that is

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not on our list of reads, but they will be

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on our list of reads. And the thing about it

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is that you're doing it, you're so humble about it,

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so you obviously have been touched by ken O.

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Speaker 1: Well, I aspire to be ken when I grow up spiritually,

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that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons why I enjoy getting older,

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because it has nothing to do with a wrinkly face

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or gray hair. It's the knowledge. It's taking that experience

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and teaching it.

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Speaker 1: Amen. Amen, Arrow, isn't that true? The gifts of age,

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the wisdom we get to share, the mistakes we get

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to correct. It's really quite a privilege, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, you gotta come back to this show anytime in

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the future. I love your energy.

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Speaker 1: I love your energy too, and I love your show

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and I will keep listening.

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Speaker 2: Will you be brilliant today? Okay, you'll be brilliant too.

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Speaker 1: Errow, thank you so much, said bye.