Speaker 1: Hi, Arrow, I'm trying to close. I'm trying to close
all my other stuff so I don't so I don't
get interruptions. How are you?
Speaker 2: Totally fantastic? How about you?
Speaker 1: I am doing well, you know. To be honest, I've
had better mornings. But that's okay, that's life. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, see, I like those off mornings because what that
does to me is what slows down the hands of time.
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. Hey, Ero, I want
to before we start, I just want to say, God,
I really love your podcast. And I listened last night
to your interview with the biographer of Elmore Leonard and
that was fantastic. You know, I actually got to publish
Elmore Leonard back when I was an editor, and listening
to that podcast, you and I share a really cool fate. Wow,
because your second grade teacher was the one who kind
of led you to become a writer, right absolutely.
Speaker 2: And what was her name, missus missus Keith.
Speaker 1: Missus Keith. Well, mine was Missus Matthews and it was
second grade, and she was the one who encouraged me
to write. Wow. And I'm like, oh my god, I
can't believe that. Isn't that incredible? That's quite an experience.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's like it's like when the medicine
men of a Native American nation go out and you know,
they're they're patiently walking through the crowds. They're looking for
the next medicine man, and they see it in the
children and the ones that are overactive, or they see
them in their creativity, and they'll pick them at a
very young age.
Speaker 1: Oh that is so cool. I love that.
Speaker 2: And so I believe that teachers so many times they
will spot somebody who is uniquely different, but but they're
they're they're going to try to tap into what's going on.
Speaker 1: You're right, You're right. If a teacher is you know,
is aware and not just going through the motions, that's
so cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my eleventh great teacher though that See,
I was ready. I was injured really bad because of
hockey and uh, and I was out of school for
several weeks, and so I was ready to just give
it up. And so my teacher came to me and said, look,
just come to class. I will let you write all
you want, and when you take a test, just don't
even put any answers down. All I want you to
do is be in class. I need to get you graduated. Wow,
and then wow, and then I married a teacher.
Speaker 1: So how about that?
Speaker 2: How about that? Well, I mean, look at what you're
doing with this book. I mean, you know, you're reintroducing
this this person, mister Ken Blanchard to a group of
people that don't know Kin's journey and the positive effects
that he has exactly.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, you said it to the biographer of
Elmore Leonard that you know, somebody came before you, you know,
and to make people aware somebody came before you. And yeah,
Ken Blanchard influenced an entire generation of leaders. He was,
as Simon Sinek calls him, the og you know, long before,
long before you know, the Brene Browns and the Simon
Sinex came along, there was Ken Blanchard with the one
minute Manager.
Speaker 2: Now, don't you think though that I mean, we're trying
to secretly catch people doing the right thing. We live
in a society that wants to do the right thing
and then hurry up and brag about it on social.
Speaker 1: Media exactly, And that's not really what the point is.
The point of catching people doing things right is to
you know, lift people up right, and when when you
praise someone, you actually increase the endorphins in their brain.
Endorphins are a neurotransmitter and it and it actually helps
people to perform better. You know, when you criticize, it
shuts people down.
Speaker 2: When you get into a project like this, how do
you prep for it? Because I'm a show prep pig.
Speaker 1: Oh how do ye a project like writing a biography?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, because I mean you've got to
get it right.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, oh well, writing a biography. So
what got me into this project was, you know, Ken
Blanchard is an amazing person. First of all, here's this
guy who he grew up in New York. When he
went to school, he was told that he couldn't write,
and he goes on to write a mega bestselling book
that sells millions of copies around the world and completely
revolutionizes the way people are managed to day. Then when
he goes to college, he's a college professor and they
tell him that he isn't particularly intelligent and he has
no academic interest. And he goes on to develop a
leadership role model that becomes the most influential role model
in the world, and by his own admission he can't
even balance his own checkbook, but he was such a
compelling speaker. The a bunch of executives basically coerced him
into starting his own company. And it's a global leadership
company now that's been around for like forty five years.
So that in itself was worth of writing a biography.
But what really made me want to write this project
was that here's a guy who's been teaching about how
important love is in leadership and lifting people up. And
he's not just saying it, he actually walks the talk arrow.
This is a guy who is genuinely a good guy.
And there are so many biographies, particularly of business people who,
yeah they're brilliant and they're innovative, but they're not particularly
good role models. And here was a chance to write
a story about somebody who he proves that nice guys
can finish first. And I think we need more positive
leadership role models in the world. So totally with you know,
that's how I get into it.
Speaker 2: You know, one of my favorite things to do with
the young adults at the other job that I do,
and that is working at a grocery store, is it.
I will go and I will sit there and I'll
shake their hand. I'll say, that's not how you shake
a hand. You need to have a firmer handshake and
let people know that you have leadership quality. And when
you do shake their hand, look at them in the eyes.
Do not look away and see these young adults don't
have this leadership. They don't have someone saying mmm, man,
I wouldn't have said that. I realize you're trying to
be funny, but you're funny. Isn't always funny?
Speaker 1: Wow? Now see that's great. That's leadership. You know, you
don't people often think you have to have a fancy
title to lead. And you know you're influencing others every
day with your podcast, so you're engaging in leadership every day.
But teaching those kids to shake a hand correctly, you
know that's a directive leadership style. I hope you're also
catching them doing things right, of course, not just correcting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, in fact, and then we celebrate it.
I mean that's why we do food tasting and we
do all these different celebrations because I want people at
night to be able to say, I'm on his team tonight, man,
I'm glad to be there because people don't want to
work at night, and so you have to create the
atmosphere where people go, I'm jealous and I can't be there.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, it's all about creating an atmosphere.
And you know, loving the leadership is loving your mission
and loving your people so that they will take care
of your customers, and then your customers take care of
your bottom line. And it's all one big circle of goodness.
Speaker 2: Please do not move. There's more with Martha C. Lawrence
coming up next. The name of the book Catch People
Doing Things Right. The author Martha C. Lawrence. I've got
to ask you, though, for Ken to step out and
do this what happened in his life to make this change,
because I've always believed that what you're doing with others
is something you wish would have been done with you.
Speaker 1: Well, Ken had some really amazing leadership role models. His
father retired as a rear admiral in the Navy and
taught him some basic leadership lessons. When Ken was a
really popular kid in school, and when he was in
seventh grade, he won the presidency of the class and
he went running home and he said, Mom, Dad, I
won the presidency, aren't I great? And his dad pulled
him aside and said, Ken, that's wonderful, But now that
you have this fancy title of president of the class,
don't ever use it. People follow leaders not because they
have a title, but because they trust and respect them.
So you know, right away what Ken took away from
that in seventh grade was, you know, it's really not
about and directing people. It's about being someone you can
trust and respect.
Speaker 2: Wow, right away, I had a flashback of Jimmy, who
just won the Service Service Award for the month, and
he has been bragging about that, and I keep walking
up to him going, why why do you have to
advertise it when really it's right there on your badge. Dude,
you don't have to tell me. I can see it.
I would rather be the one that congratulates you instead
of you congratulating yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, that's a mistake so many leaders make.
They think it's all about them, and when things go right,
they pound themselves on the chest and think it's all
about with them, when in fact, it's about others. So
you know, Jim Collins talks about in his book Good
to Great, the the level five leader who is someone
who when things are going well, they look out the
window and give praise to the people, and when things
are going wrong, they look in the mirror and say
what did I do? And they take responsibility. But a
lot of people have that backward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're changing though, at least we're trying. Do
you see it happening out there in the business world.
Speaker 1: Well, I do, but not to the extent we would like.
You know, somebody wants. The reason the book is called
Catching People Doing Things Right, Catch People Doing Things Right,
is because somebody asked Ken, if you could take away
just one thing that you've taught over the years, what
would be And that was a thing he said. You know,
I go out there and I've been teaching this for decades.
But people still think that leadership is a top down,
command and control thing, when in fact it's a side
by side thing. The world we live in today, you
can't have that top down We're all we're all learning together.
Things are changing so fast, and so it's really about
encouraging each other. You know.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I picked up about Ken was
the fact that and I realized, we use the word teach,
but to me, he's sharing. He shares ideas in other words,
and it's a difference between talking at somebody and talking with.
Speaker 1: Somebody exactly, and sharing is right. I mean, he's he's
published seventy books over the course of his career, and
most of those books, Yeah, you're a writer, so you'll
appreciate this. Most of those books have been written with
co authors. And his mom used to give him a
hard time about that and say, Ken, why don't you
write books by yourself and have your name on the cover.
And he said, Mom, you know, learning is one of
my top values, and I already know what I know.
If I collaborate with another person, I'm going to learn
so much and we're going to have fun together. And so,
you know, he started the careers of a lot of
people by co authoring books with them, giving them a platform.
Speaker 2: He seemed to be the type of person that would,
you know, even though he might get credit from that
person later on in life, he'll, you know, let it
fall off his shoulders. He's like, stop, I was just
doing my job.
Speaker 1: You know that's interesting you pick up on that, because
you know, I asked him that question. I said, you know,
why do you think you're you know, American Management Association
called him one of the top leadership thinkers of the
twentieth century. And I said, you know, how did you
do all this? And he said, you know, I think
it's more of a blessing I've received than a strategy
I've employed. You know, he just he really doesn't take
He's a genuinely humble person, and that right there is
a leadership leadership modeling. You know, that kind of humility.
Speaker 2: Isn't his style pretty much. I always call this it's watching.
I called the silent wolf. Is what I do in
the way that I learned more in martial arts, standing
on the sidelines, because I could see other people making
the mistakes, and then you go and you help correct them,
you motivate them. And I really think that Kim was
that way too, and in a way that he stands
on the sideline like a silent wolf, and then he approaches.
Speaker 1: Exactly And you know in the One Minute Manager, actually
that's that's the third secret of the One Minute Manager.
It was back in the old days it was called
the one Minute reprimand you know, obviously that needed to
be softened. The book was revised several years ago. It's
now the one minute redirect where you watch someone and
if they're making a mistake, you don't beat them up.
You know he can can. You used to talk about
the seagull ut manager, who you know, they're not around
until someone makes a mistake and then they fly in,
dump all over everybody, make a lot of noise and
fly out, and you don't see them until another mistake
is made. So you don't want to do that. You
want to be there side by side, praising their progress,
setting goals with them. But when they do make a mistake,
you redirect them. You know, that's part of leadership what
you're doing with your kids at the grocery store, you know,
showing them, showing them and then praising them when they
get it right.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, learning to face the challenges and changes.
You're not perfect and nobody's going to look at you
as being perfect, but don't run away from the challenges
and the changes exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's progress not perfection, right, you know, none of
us have it perfectly right the first time.
Speaker 2: So to accept the journey, those that are listening, those
that are reading, because we all sit there and we
have it in our ears, we have it in our hands,
but taking that first step. That activation requires what I
know what it took in me, So what about people
who are going I know, but.
Speaker 1: Well I'm curious what did it take for you taking
that first step?
Speaker 2: The fact that I didn't want to live in Billings,
Montana anymore, and I wanted to be in Los Angeles.
And the only way I was going to make it
to Los Angeles was I had to take it seriously
and radio could not be a hobby. It had to
be an adventure.
Speaker 1: Well you know that gets to you know, Ken, like
anybody else, that faced a lot of setbacks in his
journey through life. And his mom, who was one of
his great teachers, told him, you know when setbooks are
part of life. When you run into a problem or
a roadblock, don't put your head down and grumble, keep
your head up and look for opportunities, which is what
you did right going to Los Angeles. And so you know,
he was able to turn a lot of his roadblocks
into opportunities by just having faith in himself. And she
also taught him she said, you know, Ken, you're not
better than anybody else, but nobody's better than you. She said,
there's a pearl of goodness in everyone, so dig for it.
And you know that kind of philosophy in life really
can open a lot of doors for you. So you know,
it's just about having faith in the future and taking
that first step and believing that the universe is going
to rise up to catch you.
Speaker 2: You bring up something that's very interesting in the way
of keeping your head up. The way that I learned
how to do that is I live in a forest,
and the forest always has spiderwebs always, so I'm going
down toward to the slow moving stream, and I was
for some stink and reason I always look down when
I'm walking down a hill. I looked up just in time.
Right there in front of me was a huge black
space at face level. If I would not have looked up,
and that was life changing for me because it was
telling me, you need to start looking ahead and not
where you know what's on the ground.
Speaker 1: That's right, keep your head up and keep looking for opportunities.
Speaker 2: Exactly. You see, Wow, this book is you see. I mean,
you're introducing so many things from a past that we
can use as tools in the present.
Speaker 1: Exactly. I mean, Ken, every chapter of the book opens
with a Ken Blanchard quote. He's one of the most
widely quoted experts in the world. If you you know,
google Ken Blanchard quote quotes, you'll see all kinds of things.
You know, feedback is the breakfast of champions. One of
my favorites is none of us is as smart as
all of us, right, the power of collaboration, you know.
And one of my favorites is life is a very
special occasion. Don't miss it, you know. That's keep your
head up. Life is a very special occasion. We're here.
This is such a privilege to be alive, you know,
and living this life. And and Ken Ken has that
joy about life and believes that leaders should inspire others
to have joy about life.
Speaker 2: Why aren't you hosting a podcast because you keep pulling
from these different books and motivators and stuff like that.
You mean, you're you're so spot on and in tune
with what you're thinking.
Speaker 1: Oh I am. I am not up that you You
aro have the gift your voice and your podcast is fantastic.
Talk about catching people doing things right. Yeah, I love
I love the sound of your podcast. I'm a writer,
you know, writers typically you're you're a little different. Writers
typically like to be behind the scenes. I just am
so passionate about what Ken Blanchard has given the world
and who he is and his incredible story that that's
why I'm out here promoting it.
Speaker 2: And yet, if you really dig into the history of podcasting,
it wasn't the comedians, it wasn't the rock stars that
created podcasting. It was the writers. They just wanted to
get their voice out there. Wow, I didn't know that
started it.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, and more and more people are listening instead
of reading, and that's one of the things that made
the One Minute Manager. You know, so it's sold. I
think it's sold die many, many, many, many millions of
copies around the world. But Ken and his co author,
doctor Spencer Johnson, they did some research and they found
that people generally do not read past the first chapter
of the book, and so they instead of writing a long, boring,
dry business book, they wrote this simple business parable, less
than one hundred pages, about a guy who went around
looking for an effective manager. And you know, the publisher said,
it's a bathtub book. You know, you're dryer water for
the bath, you get in, you start reading the book,
and by the time the water is cold, you're done
with the book. You know, and so more and more
you need these bite sized pieces of wisdom. And that's
what's fun about Ken's books. He takes these really complex,
well researched ideas and has an incredible gift for making
them simple and actionable.
Speaker 2: Wow. Where can people go to find out more about you?
Because there's more to you than just this book.
Speaker 1: Well, but it's not about me, Ero. I mean, I
do have a website Martha Lawrence dot com. But if
you want to find out about Ken Blanchard and all
his incredible work and legacy, go to books dot com.
And if you're interested in what his company does, which
is to create great leaders around the world, that's Blanchard
dot com. And of course a book is available wherever
books are sold. So catch people doing things right, and
definitely to your listeners today, I would just say try it.
Catch people doing things right. See the positive impact you
can have in someone's life.
Speaker 2: You know what, You're going to get that award today
because you're doing something right by promoting somebody that is
not on our list of reads, but they will be
on our list of reads. And the thing about it
is that you're doing it, you're so humble about it,
so you obviously have been touched by ken O.
Speaker 1: Well, I aspire to be ken when I grow up spiritually,
that's for sure.
Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons why I enjoy getting older,
because it has nothing to do with a wrinkly face
or gray hair. It's the knowledge. It's taking that experience
and teaching it.
Speaker 1: Amen. Amen, Arrow, isn't that true? The gifts of age,
the wisdom we get to share, the mistakes we get
to correct. It's really quite a privilege, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Well, you gotta come back to this show anytime in
the future. I love your energy.
Speaker 1: I love your energy too, and I love your show
and I will keep listening.
Speaker 2: Will you be brilliant today? Okay, you'll be brilliant too.
Speaker 1: Errow, thank you so much, said bye.