Speaker 1: Ah from me historic Lemonard Park in Los Angeles, California.
Speaker 1: I'm Tavist Smiley and I'm so glad to see you
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Speaker 1: Another great show on tap for you today. It's Monday,
Speaker 1: so we'll check in with dot Cornel West on the
Speaker 1: top side of our two as per usual, on the
Speaker 1: B side of our two, Karen Audiam is a bad girl.
Speaker 1: She was on this program when she was summarily dismissed
Speaker 1: by The Washington Post last year for what you ask
Speaker 1: doing her job. Today, an arbitrator ordered the Washington Post
Speaker 1: to reinstate Karen after she posted about white men who
Speaker 1: espouse hatred and violence following Charlie Kirk's killing of victory
Speaker 1: today for the right kind of Karen, we'll talk about
Speaker 1: it with my colleague and White House correspondent in the
Speaker 1: quarterlot quote on the b side of our two, plus
Speaker 1: Hakeem Jeffries is hanging out with Jared Kushner. What's that about?
Speaker 1: Lots to cover on the backside of our two in
Speaker 1: our third hour, two more conversations. First, we'll take the
Speaker 1: political prediction market to task with Galen Druke of the
Speaker 1: gd Politics podcast, and then on the b side of
Speaker 1: our three year conversation with the Emmy nominated veteran actor
Speaker 1: Ernest Harden Junior. Ernest is nominated for his outstanding guest
Speaker 1: appearance on the HBO Max hit medical drama The Pit.
Speaker 1: So Ernest comes live and stud do today in our
Speaker 1: third and final hour on the backside at least, but
Speaker 1: in this first hour, let's talk politics and more with
Speaker 1: former White House speech writer and Emmy winner himself Eli
Speaker 1: Addie Eli, How are you, sir?
Speaker 2: Great? How are you to man?
Speaker 1: If I can play man's good to have you, I
Speaker 1: can plain that being ingrade, you know me, let me
Speaker 1: let me. I mentioned South Carolina, and I want to
Speaker 1: go there right quick.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 1: Pete booda judge, was in South Carolina over the weekend.
Speaker 1: He's thinking about another run and so he was there
Speaker 1: this weekend. Made made some natural news, of course, and uh,
Speaker 1: we may talk about that a little bit later in
Speaker 1: today's program. But I want to go to South Carolina
Speaker 1: because Donald Trump was just in South Carolina, uh, and
Speaker 1: had this to say about what he expects of Democrats
Speaker 1: if and when they take back the House this fall
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 3: They're gonna flee our country. I'm going to be impeach.
Speaker 3: They're gonna do a peach me. They have no idea.
Speaker 3: Why I saw it today A congressman said on one
Speaker 3: of the shows, We're going to a peach person or Trump,
Speaker 3: We're going to a peach Oh really? Why the person
Speaker 3: was saying a neutral commentator for a change.
Speaker 1: I like neutral commentator. Oh, I see, you're gonnapeach him? Why?
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that we'll talk to new Cord lack
Speaker 1: Quarte about Jared Kushner and Hakim Jeffries and the meeting
Speaker 1: they had in the context or that is the backdrop
Speaker 1: here comes Donald Trump saying they are going to impeach me.
Speaker 1: I am not so sure about that. Uh, let me
Speaker 1: just let me just well, let me do this. I
Speaker 1: got thirty second shit, I wouldn't be fair. I want
Speaker 1: to hear what Eli has to say about that when
Speaker 1: we come forward. I do not believe that haw King
Speaker 1: Jeffries has the stomach to do that. I don't think
Speaker 1: the Democrats went back to the House, Hakim Jeffrey is
Speaker 1: gonna be jumping up and down to impeach Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: So Trump feels that way. Clearly there are those in
Speaker 1: the House who want to see Donald Trump impeached. I
Speaker 1: just don't know if impeachment sits anywhere near the top
Speaker 1: of the Democratic agenda, if they can pull this off
Speaker 1: coming November. But the president, he's bracing him himself for
Speaker 1: effects if the Dems take back the House. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about it with Eli Addi when we come forward on
Speaker 1: Tavis Smile. So Donald Trump is is concerned or feigning concern,
Speaker 1: that Democrats are going to impeach him if they get
Speaker 1: to the gavel back come November. What say you?
Speaker 2: You know, it's a complicated question because I'm a parent
Speaker 2: of young kids and as a lot of people with
Speaker 2: young kids will will tell you there have to be consequences. Right,
Speaker 2: we do have a justice system. I think there's been
Speaker 2: unbelievable corruption, self dealing, flouting of laws left and right
Speaker 2: in this administration on a scale we've never seen. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, I think if Leader Jefferies is
Speaker 2: reluctant to make the next two years about impeachment or
Speaker 2: even frankly about investigating you know, Trump in his cabinet,
Speaker 2: his highly corrupt cabinet, I would say, you know, up
Speaker 2: and down, it's for good reason, which is that I
Speaker 2: think this country right now is exhausted by inflation, you know, war,
Speaker 2: a government that seems to only want align its own
Speaker 2: pockets and to not you know, to be kicking people
Speaker 2: off of you know, Medicaid and not expanding health care,
Speaker 2: and in fact, you know, Obama Care premiums have been
Speaker 2: tripling in some cases. I think they want I think
Speaker 2: I think people in this country want a government that
Speaker 2: addresses their problems. And if we spend, if Democrats take
Speaker 2: back the House, which I think will almost certainly happen,
Speaker 2: I mean, we have a good chance at the Senate.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say whether that's going to happen, a
Speaker 2: lot of things have to line up correctly. But I
Speaker 2: think what we should do is use those two years
Speaker 2: to try, in the Congress at least to focus on
Speaker 2: making life more affordable for you know, working families in
Speaker 2: this country, and expanding health care instead of cutting it back,
Speaker 2: and expanding paths to come to this country legally instead
Speaker 2: of restricting them, and make this a place of opportunity again.
Speaker 1: You do realize, eli, with all due respect, that if
Speaker 1: we were talking about Barack Obama having done what Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is doing, no Republican guest on this program would
Speaker 1: be saying anything near what you're saying right now. You
Speaker 1: do realize it.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, look, I mean Obama, who I you know,
Speaker 2: love and got to meet, didn't really know personally, but
Speaker 2: you know, he he His big scandal was that he
Speaker 2: wore tan suit in the Oval office one day. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember the weeks of Republican outrage
Speaker 2: about the tan suit. It's just another level of hypocrisy, frankly,
Speaker 2: And you know, there have been plenty of Democratic presidents
Speaker 2: who have had their you know, versions of corruption and
Speaker 2: self dealing. I think you know, Barack Obama was a
Speaker 2: particularly morally upright person in that regard.
Speaker 1: But still, but see that, I'm coming back to your word.
Speaker 1: I let you have to eli not that easy, brother,
Speaker 1: not that I'm gonna put that hypocrisy word on you.
Speaker 1: And I say it respectfully and lovingly, of course, because
Speaker 1: because because this is the point. If Barack Obama with
Speaker 1: his black self in his tan suit, we're in the
Speaker 1: White House right now and it done what Donald Trump
Speaker 1: has done, There's no way that any Republican guest on
Speaker 1: this program would be saying to me, we shouldn't focus
Speaker 1: on the president. We ought to focus on the people's issues.
Speaker 1: They'd be going after Barack Obama every day, all day
Speaker 1: for the tan suit and everything else he's guilty of.
Speaker 1: And here you come now suggesting, well, other people want
Speaker 1: the Congress to focus on their issues, and so we're
Speaker 1: gonna let Donald Trump get away with literally no.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm not I'm not for letting him get away
Speaker 2: with anything. Yeah, You're making a very good point here,
Speaker 2: Bern Tavison, and I'm not for that. But I think
Speaker 2: at a certain point you have to be coolly strategic
Speaker 2: and realize that you know, I think Trump likes everything
Speaker 2: to always be about Trump, and if we are attacking
Speaker 2: Trump and tearing down Trump and impeaching Trump and investigating Trump,
Speaker 2: that will be satisfying to some portion of the electorate.
Speaker 2: And as I you know, began my answer by saying,
Speaker 2: it may be what is morally and legally required, but
Speaker 2: at the same time, I think this whole country is
Speaker 2: exhausted by Trump and everything to do with Trump, and
Speaker 2: a little disgusted. Look, his approval rating is now. I
Speaker 2: think thirty three percent of the country in a Rutter's
Speaker 2: poll that I saw this morning approve of his performance
Speaker 2: as president. Sixty four percent disapproved. I mean, those are
Speaker 2: you know, Richard Nixon may have had numbers that bad
Speaker 2: days before he resigned from office. That's, you know, the
Speaker 2: blinking red alarm. He doesn't care at all because he's
Speaker 2: a lame duck, despite the fact that he wears these
Speaker 2: you know, twenty twenty eight hats all the time, and
Speaker 2: he doesn't really care about his own party. He doesn't
Speaker 2: care about anybody, even hisself really, and he's out the
Speaker 2: door and all he wants to do is build monuments
Speaker 2: and put more you know, gold, you know, paint on
Speaker 2: the walls of the Oval Office. Which apparently he's been
Speaker 2: doing some gilding of the Oval office himself. That's what
Speaker 2: he thinks is the good use of his time as president.
Speaker 2: You know, talk about a metaphor. It's Marie Antoinette. You know,
Speaker 2: he just doesn't have any connection to what people are
Speaker 2: going through in this country and does not care, and
Speaker 2: is making everything worse and is lining his own pockets.
Speaker 2: So I think, and all of that, I suppose is
Speaker 2: making the case for impeaching him or trying to investigate
Speaker 2: him and you know, stir up all kinds of civil
Speaker 2: and criminal cases against him again. But I think what
Speaker 2: the country needs, after a decade of this madness, you know,
Speaker 2: other than the Biden years, is somebody who will put
Speaker 2: their problems first. So I mean, the danger of an
Speaker 2: impeachment proceeding or all these investigations, and maybe they need
Speaker 2: to happen, but the danger of them is that it
Speaker 2: just drags us into another Donald Trump rabbit hole where
Speaker 2: it's Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump Trump until people.
Speaker 1: I guess, no, I hear you, and I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make light of the argument that
Speaker 1: you're making. I understand that the point you're making is
Speaker 1: a strategic point or is George W. Bush would say strategery.
Speaker 1: I get it. I get that, And yet I don't
Speaker 1: think it has to be either or it can be both.
Speaker 1: And we can have some new elected leadership in Washington
Speaker 1: that plays by the rules, that doesn't violate the law
Speaker 1: every day, it doesn't a lot of the American people
Speaker 1: every day. We can do that and at the same
Speaker 1: time both and not either or hold Donald Trump accountable.
Speaker 1: And yet I'm sensitive to your point about the strategy
Speaker 1: that the Democrats need to figure out how they're going
Speaker 1: to employ. Here's what I'm bothered by. I hear your
Speaker 1: point that people are exhausted by Donald Trump, no question
Speaker 1: about it. But are we not exhausted by a chief
Speaker 1: executive who breaks every law on the books? Are we
Speaker 1: not exhausted by a president who's engaged in a grift,
Speaker 1: a big grift? Are we not exhausted by et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And here's the thing, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, if we don't make some effort,
Speaker 1: some attempt to investigate and to hold him accountable, then
Speaker 1: what you have is another white male getting away with
Speaker 1: high crimes and misdemeanors. That's what you have, another white
Speaker 1: male and in the most multicultural, multiracial, multi ethic America ever,
Speaker 1: that absolutely sends the wrong signal. Number one, let me
Speaker 1: still go back to your babies, your precious babies you
Speaker 1: referenced earlier. That's the wrong message to your kids. You
Speaker 1: can get away, becames man.
Speaker 2: I'm of two minds about this, right because I do
Speaker 2: think there have to be consequences, and I do think
Speaker 2: we have to become a nation of laws again in
Speaker 2: a way that we aren't right now, you know, for
Speaker 2: you know, in too many ways because of this trend
Speaker 2: and because of this president. But let's say we take
Speaker 2: back just the House, which seems like the most likely outcome,
Speaker 2: though I think we have an increasing shot of taking
Speaker 2: back the Senate. You know, there's a limit to what
Speaker 2: a speaker Jeffreys will be able to do. He's not
Speaker 2: going to be able to enact a legislative agenda almost
Speaker 2: at all. Despite this meeting with Jared Kushner, which we
Speaker 2: could talk about, you know, he's he's gonna it's mostly
Speaker 2: going to be trying to show some voters at the
Speaker 2: margins what the difference is between the parties after two years,
Speaker 2: where there's basically been no Congress, and Congress has just
Speaker 2: you know, laid down and abdicated their job and let
Speaker 2: Donald Trump do whatever he's wanted to do because Republican
Speaker 2: members of the House and Senator are scared of him.
Speaker 2: They're scared of what he can do to them in
Speaker 2: Republican primaries. So I think if if the danger is
Speaker 2: that if a speaker Jeffries is seen as focusing primarily
Speaker 2: on impeachment investigations, and even if he does thirty percent
Speaker 2: that and seventy percent the other stuff, you know that
Speaker 2: right and left, the press will largely focus on the
Speaker 2: source of conflict, which is the impeachment in the investigations,
Speaker 2: I think it'll just seem like Park's on both their houses.
Speaker 2: It's just they're all just you know, in a sandbox,
Speaker 2: you know, fighting with each other, even though we're trying
Speaker 2: to you know, meet out some kind of justice. I
Speaker 2: would love for the contrast to be We're actually focused
Speaker 2: on the problems of the American people, and he's trying
Speaker 2: to you know, line in his own pockets and do
Speaker 2: these horrible things. You know, there's an old theory of
Speaker 2: presidential politics that my old friend David Axelrod likes to
Speaker 2: talk about that the country for presidents doesn't elect replicas,
Speaker 2: they elect remedies. And I don't. I don't think the
Speaker 2: path forward for Democrats is a pugilistic, extremist democrat. I
Speaker 2: think it's somebody who is a more successful version of
Speaker 2: a Joe Biden, somebody who can be seen as someone
Speaker 2: wants to govern, someone wants to solve problems, someone who's
Speaker 2: a little bit of a conciliator. Can heal the country
Speaker 2: after all of this horrible toxic damage that's been done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of minutes on this, and I'll push
Speaker 1: for you, but let me just let me let me
Speaker 1: lean on it one way time here. So Democrats have
Speaker 1: been promising that if in fact they take back the House,
Speaker 1: they're going to investigate Donald Trump for X, Y, and Z.
Speaker 1: They've been saying that on the record for months now,
Speaker 1: and that's part of the appeal, as you well know,
Speaker 1: to get to vote for them, that if we get in,
Speaker 1: we're going to investigate this fool. So what is the
Speaker 1: point of investigating Donald Trump if you're not prepared to
Speaker 1: take it the full length, which is to say, if
Speaker 1: it calls for impeachment then you ought to be impeached.
Speaker 1: I don't understand why we'd be investigating him if that's
Speaker 1: not what if that's not the end and aim once
Speaker 1: he's found guilty, which we all know he is, of
Speaker 1: these crimes. And mister Meanors, as I said a moment ago,
Speaker 1: the other point I'm raising is to use your back
Speaker 1: to your word pugilistic. I think there's gonna be some
Speaker 1: pugilism inside the Democratic Party. We see every day the
Speaker 1: intra party fighting, as it is at the Democratic National
Speaker 1: Committee level. Even inside the House we see Democrats not
Speaker 1: always on the same page. What happens when a fight
Speaker 1: breaks out openly, because as you well know, there will
Speaker 1: be Democrats who will demand that Donald Trump is investigated.
Speaker 1: They will demand that Donald trum impeached. And whether Hakim
Speaker 1: Jeffies goes along with it or not, he's got a
Speaker 1: fight on his hands inside of his own party the
Speaker 1: minute he becomes the historic black Speaker of the House.
Speaker 2: Eli ADDI, you know, look, I get that there's going
Speaker 2: to be a lot of energy, a lot of juice
Speaker 2: in the fall elections about taking Trump to task, investigating
Speaker 2: him and peaching him. And on the merits, I agree
Speaker 2: with you, he completely deserves that. It's going to depend
Speaker 2: on what happens in the Senate, because let's say we
Speaker 2: don't take back the Senate. Let's say we do and
Speaker 2: we have a one seat margin, which I think is
Speaker 2: the realistic option. You know, if we take back you know,
Speaker 2: take back the Senate at all, we're never going to
Speaker 2: convict them Trump in the Senate. We're just never going
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. That's not going to happen.
Speaker 2: So then it's you're a prosecutor deciding do I prosecute
Speaker 2: this case that I actually can't win a conviction on.
Speaker 2: Do we want to How much time do we want
Speaker 2: to take up doing that when we could instead take
Speaker 2: up time trying to, you know, get Obamacare subsidies back
Speaker 2: in place, so people whose health insurance costs have tripled
Speaker 2: and who now you know, have to use emergency rooms
Speaker 2: as crisis care because they don't have doctors. You know,
Speaker 2: how much time do we want to spend you know,
Speaker 2: actually trying to have an infrastructure policy in this country
Speaker 2: that creates jobs, trying to you know, get inflation under control,
Speaker 2: trying to expand affordable housing. You know, I would rather
Speaker 2: do that then, and again, I'm no fan of Donald
Speaker 2: Trump's and I think he deserves, you know, whatever the
Speaker 2: worst punishment is. But we're not going to convict him.
Speaker 2: We're not going to convict him. So do we want
Speaker 2: to spend all that time? It's it's satisfying emotionally, but
Speaker 2: is it really going to achieve anything?
Speaker 1: True Responses Two Responses will move on to Jared Kushner
Speaker 1: and Harakeen Jeffrey speaking of Vakueen Jefferson as being the
Speaker 1: ad I've said more times I can count, and with
Speaker 1: the course on my career that if you really want
Speaker 1: to know whether or not there's any real justice at
Speaker 1: the epicenter of whatever issue you're discussing, if you wonder
Speaker 1: if there's any if there's any real justice embody therein,
Speaker 1: all you have to do is to flip the frame.
Speaker 1: Flip flip the frame. By that, I mean just switch
Speaker 1: out the colors. I repeat what I said earlier. If
Speaker 1: Donald Trump were black and doing this, we know exactly
Speaker 1: where this conversation would be leading us, Just as if
Speaker 1: those insurrectionists on January sixth were black, we know how
Speaker 1: the outcome would be very different. All you got to
Speaker 1: do is to flip the frame. Just switch out the color,
Speaker 1: and that tells you whether or not it's a legitimate conversation.
Speaker 1: That tells you whether or not there's any real modicum
Speaker 1: even of justice at play when you flip out the colors.
Speaker 1: That's the first point. If Donald Trump were black, we'd
Speaker 1: be having a very different conversation. Number One, I don't
Speaker 1: mean eli, I mean the country.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, and there's no question. And we know with
Speaker 2: you there is no question.
Speaker 1: The second point is I said earlier, it sends the
Speaker 1: wrong message in so many ways. I'm thinking of all
Speaker 1: these black and brown people in this country right now
Speaker 1: who have been caught up, who are in fact caught
Speaker 1: up right now, many of them innocent, but caught up
Speaker 1: right now in our system of injustice, our system of jurisprudence.
Speaker 1: Who would love to hear somebody saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: we ain't gonna We're not gonna charge you, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna prosecute you, We're not even gonna investigate you, because,
Speaker 1: you know what, the American people have real problems that
Speaker 1: we need to be addressing. And Jamal and Letitia, we
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and and Jose and Maria
Speaker 1: we not We're not gonna spend time. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: waste time hemming you up for the crimes that you
Speaker 1: allegedly committed, because we have other problems we need to
Speaker 1: focus on. I know black and brown folk who would
Speaker 1: love to hear that kind of commentary, that kind of analysis,
Speaker 1: and they never will. But because he's Donald Trump, because
Speaker 1: he's a rich, powerful white male, because of strategory, we're
Speaker 1: gonna let him off the hook because we got better
Speaker 1: things to do. And again I digress, but I think
Speaker 1: you take my point last word to you, ELI on
Speaker 1: this issue, will move forward.
Speaker 2: Look, there's nobody who would be happier if Donald Trump
Speaker 2: were impeached and remove from office. I think he's unworthy
Speaker 2: of the job. I think he's highly corrupt. I think
Speaker 2: we're going to be spending decades finding out the full
Speaker 2: scale of the way he's looted our government. I think
Speaker 2: they're going to find half the China missing when that
Speaker 2: guy finally leaves the building, and his fingernails, you know,
Speaker 2: in the doorway as they pull him away. But I
Speaker 2: try to, as I said, be coolly strategic. I try
Speaker 2: to step back and think what am I actually hoping
Speaker 2: we achieve in this country? And I want to make
Speaker 2: you know, I want a government that makes people's lives
Speaker 2: better in measurable ways. And you know he's he's just
Speaker 2: one of these people who tends to slip through your
Speaker 2: hands just when you think you've got him, and maybe
Speaker 2: you know, we should just let him go off into
Speaker 2: the sunset. And if you look at the guy walking around,
Speaker 2: that may not be long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you point, that's why he's Anemy winning TV writer.
Speaker 1: Fingernails in the in the in the doorways, they're pulling
Speaker 1: him out half the china missing. That's why Eli Aaddi
Speaker 1: is an Emmy winner himself. Let me close on this note.
Speaker 1: I think we started this half hour playing this Donald
Speaker 1: Trump clip and mister President, you ain't got none to
Speaker 1: worry about. Democrats ain't gonna do nothing. They're gonna they're
Speaker 1: not gonna come anywhere near trying to impeach you. I
Speaker 1: don't believe, and I believe that's why Donald Trump is
Speaker 1: making a mockery of Democrats in saying what he said
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. He knows they ain't coming for him.
Speaker 1: He knows that, and so he's leaning into this making
Speaker 1: fun of Democrats because he knows that they're not gonna
Speaker 1: impeach you. They ain't got the temerity to do so.
Speaker 1: I digress from now. You're listening to Eliaddi on Tavisli Addy,
Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning TV writer from a speechwriter in the
Speaker 1: White House, specifically for Vice President Al Gore as delight
Speaker 1: to have Eli on the program in case you just
Speaker 1: and then we had a spirited, uh, spirited debate, not
Speaker 1: really a debate, but we would it were spirited them
Speaker 1: in the first thirty minutes.
Speaker 2: We mostly agree, yeah.
Speaker 1: We mostly agree, Yeah, but it was spirited. We've been
Speaker 1: talking about Donald Trump, who was in South Carolina a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, and I think made a mockery
Speaker 1: of Democrats in South Carolina when he suggested they're going
Speaker 1: to impeach me. There, Miles, you got you got to
Speaker 1: think you do up again if I can't mind my down.
Speaker 1: Trump imprestonation is not really that good. It's only twenty
Speaker 1: eight seconds. Listen to it. Listen to it yourself.
Speaker 3: Years ago, They're gonna flee our country. I'm going to
Speaker 3: be impeached. They're gonna impeach me. They have no idea
Speaker 3: Why I saw it today, A congressman said on one
Speaker 3: of the shows, we're going to a peach person or Trump,
Speaker 3: We're going to a peach Oh?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 3: Why the person was asking a neutral commentator for a change?
Speaker 1: I like neutral commentator. Oh, I see, you're gonna peach him? Why?
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Eli. I think you may be slightly
Speaker 1: younger than I am. But do you do you remember
Speaker 1: Gary Hart?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Absolutely so you're recalling Gary Heart challenge reporters to catch him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was a different time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But my point of being, I'm being some
Speaker 1: of a tongue in cheek. Gary Hart challenged reporters to
Speaker 1: to to catch him, and they did as I recalled.
Speaker 1: They were hiding out in trees trying to catch Gary
Speaker 1: Hart because he sort of challenged them. You never want
Speaker 1: to do that to the press. Donald Trump is doing
Speaker 1: the same thing to Democrats. They're gonna impeach me. He's
Speaker 1: begging them to impeach him, but he knows they won't.
Speaker 1: And that's what I meant by reving this in their face,
Speaker 1: making a mockery. You don't think I'm right about that?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the difference. I mean, look, I think
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is kind of pathological. He may think he's
Speaker 2: innocent of everything. I think there's something just off in
Speaker 2: his brain. He certainly has no shame, no remorse about anything,
Speaker 2: and I think he sees his own behavior differently. I
Speaker 2: think he thinks he's a dictator or a king and
Speaker 2: kind of above the law, you know, just by his
Speaker 2: mere existence. Really, it's really on a level we've never seen.
Speaker 1: I think you get out front and you say they're
Speaker 1: going to impeach me, and you dare them to do. So,
Speaker 1: that's what I think is at work here. I digress
Speaker 1: right now, All right, Hakim Jeffries and Jared Kushner, this
Speaker 1: is all over the news. They got together for a meeting,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that they expected it to get out,
Speaker 1: but he got out, and everybody's trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what it means. So what does it mean, Eliadi?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say that it means anything. Really.
Speaker 2: I guess they had worked together on some legislation criminal
Speaker 2: justice reform in the first Trump term and had a
Speaker 2: bit of a relationship, and at least what they're telling
Speaker 2: the press as well, they keep in touch anyway, which
Speaker 2: I have hard time believing in any serious way. But
Speaker 2: you know, there's a very good chance. I think there's
Speaker 2: an almost one hundred percent chance the Democrats take back
Speaker 2: the House. The White House knows that they're thinking to themselves,
Speaker 2: is there some way we can keep a channel open
Speaker 2: to Jeffries so that, you know, if he's the speaker,
Speaker 2: we can work together on things that we agree on. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, and Kushner is the person that they sort
Speaker 2: of dispatch for these tricky missions. But if you look
Speaker 2: at Jared Kushner's record on you know, piece in the
Speaker 2: Middle East, on ending the Iran War, pretty much everything
Speaker 2: on on ending the war, you know, between Russia and Ukraine,
Speaker 2: anything he is dispatched to do ends up a gigantic failure.
Speaker 2: And they tend to be impossible tasks. It's like the
Speaker 2: old Steve Martin joke about you know he's gonna now
Speaker 2: he's gonna inhale a grand piano through straw. Well, basically
Speaker 2: Krishnan has been asked to inhale a grand piano through
Speaker 2: restraw and you know, establish some kind of common ground
Speaker 2: with a guy Trump has insulted a hundred different ways,
Speaker 2: and whose agenda He's tried to sabotage her every conceivable way.
Speaker 2: I don't really see them working together. Yep, if and when.
Speaker 1: Jeffy speak, let me let me just set Jared Kushner's
Speaker 1: side for the second, for a second, He's less important
Speaker 1: to meet hockeym Jeffrey's for all the obvious reasons more important.
Speaker 1: And I want to just ask you a point blank, direct,
Speaker 1: forthright question about Hakim Jeffreys and whether or not he
Speaker 1: is the right man for this moment. And historically we
Speaker 1: could ask this question of any number of people. I mean,
Speaker 1: clearly bb Net and Yahoo is the wrong person at
Speaker 1: this moment. Some could argue that y'all Sair air Fat
Speaker 1: back in the day was the wrong person at that moment.
Speaker 1: We could do this all day long. If if we're
Speaker 1: friends of history, as you and I are, we could
Speaker 1: ask these questions historically whether or not these persons were
Speaker 1: the wrong people at the wrong time. So this Hakim
Speaker 1: Jeffreys question, I wrestled with it all the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like Haiking personally, never done anything, never done anything
Speaker 1: to me. Happens to be one of my fraternity brothers.
Speaker 1: He's been a guest on this program. Oh cool, Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: he's been a guest on the program. So I mean
Speaker 1: I get along with Hakim Jeffries. And yet, and yet,
Speaker 1: and yet, I see all the ways, I see all
Speaker 1: the issues on which Haiqim Jeffries seems not necessarily to
Speaker 1: be in step with the base of the Democratic Party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you talk to members of the House, they swear
Speaker 1: about Haikim, They love Lakimen Jeffy. I never talked to
Speaker 1: anybody or in the House who doesn't like Hakim Jeffries
Speaker 1: a likable god, and many of them think he's a
Speaker 1: good leader, and they understand what he's up against. And
Speaker 1: so you know, there's no dislike per se of Hakim.
Speaker 1: And at the moment, I don't see anybody or know
Speaker 1: anybody who's gonna put their name out front volunteer themselves
Speaker 1: to run against top King Jeffries. That could change between
Speaker 1: now November, if they went back to the House, we
Speaker 1: shall see. I'm saying all that to ask whether or not,
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, you believe history making he
Speaker 1: will be if they pull this off, whether or not
Speaker 1: that makes Hi Kim Jeffries the right person at this
Speaker 1: moment to lead Democrats. Many raids the same question about Schumer.
Speaker 1: You take my.
Speaker 2: Point, Here's what I would say to that. I like
Speaker 2: him a lot, I respect him a lot. I started
Speaker 2: my career in Washington actually working for a House minority
Speaker 2: leader to get parts, so I understand that job a
Speaker 2: little bit from the inside. And what you really are
Speaker 2: in his job, Hakiem Jeffrey's job, you're a class president.
Speaker 2: So the fact that you can't get a single Congressman
Speaker 2: to say a bad thing about him, that's why he's
Speaker 2: the leader of the Democrats, because those are the people
Speaker 2: who elected him. He's not a national you know, elected official.
Speaker 2: He's not a president. He won't have that megaphone. He's
Speaker 2: not somebody we pick to go toe to toe with
Speaker 2: the president. He's picked to serve the needs of his
Speaker 2: members by his members. The fact that he may be
Speaker 2: out of step with the base of his party, and
Speaker 2: I suppose you're talking about the more sort of activist
Speaker 2: progressive left that's been powering a lot of recent primary victories,
Speaker 2: and it is the source of a lot of energy
Speaker 2: in the party right now. But I think, you know,
Speaker 2: Jefferies represents the mainstream of the party. He represents the
Speaker 2: party broadly speaking, and he represents I think the kind
Speaker 2: of leadership you need to bridge all these different factions.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Tip O'Neil, Democratic Speaker of the House in the eighties,
Speaker 2: always used to say, if this were Europe, the Democratic
Speaker 2: Party would be five parties, and I think that's still true.
Speaker 2: It's an almost impossible job. So I think expecting him
Speaker 2: as Speaker to suddenly be this charismatic national leader who
Speaker 2: goes toe to toe with Donald Trump, he won't really
Speaker 2: be doing that. He'll be letting his members do press
Speaker 2: conferences instead of him. Many times, that's part of that job.
Speaker 2: Members of Congress all have egos. They don't want somebody
Speaker 2: to be their leader who's going to boss them around
Speaker 2: and tell them what to do and overshadow them. It's
Speaker 2: why our expectations of a democratic House have to be
Speaker 2: pretty limited. There's nobody in that job, even somebody like
Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi, who I think is unbelievable and an incredible leader,
Speaker 2: who can, you know, day after day after day, really
Speaker 2: go toe to toe with the President and potentially take
Speaker 2: them down. It's the legislative leader's role is different, and
Speaker 2: I think will be limited. And he can set an agenda,
Speaker 2: and he can build a consensus, and it's going to
Speaker 2: be a broad consensus that includes every part of the party,
Speaker 2: and it won't satisfy the sort of fire and brimstone left.
Speaker 2: It's driving a lot of energy right now in the party.
Speaker 1: Speaking of fire and brimstone left. As I said earlier
Speaker 1: in this program, there's always an intra party squabble up
Speaker 1: inside the Democratic Party about one thing or another, multiple things,
Speaker 1: usually all at once. It's always in fighting inside the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. So here's the latest. Democrats have now narrowed
Speaker 1: their twenty twenty eight convention. Speaking of the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: eight race, they've narrowed their convention finalist cities to three Boston, Denver,
Speaker 1: and Philly. Boston, Denver, and Philadelphia. I've been at conventions
Speaker 1: in all three of those places during my career covering
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. So those are three finalists, Boston, Denver,
Speaker 1: and Philadelphia, which did not make the black mayor of
Speaker 1: Atlanta happy. He has said that the DNC has snubbed
Speaker 1: black voters by not choosing the atl And now there's
Speaker 1: a fight inside the party about where they're gonna have
Speaker 1: their convention. There's some Democratic Party insiders who have slapped
Speaker 1: the mayor back and spanked Tire for even suggesting such
Speaker 1: a thing. That just because we didn't choose Atlanta, that
Speaker 1: does not mean that we're disrespecting black voters. So here's
Speaker 1: yet another squabble up inside the Democratic Party. I used
Speaker 1: to think years ago that these cities actually made a difference.
Speaker 1: I don't think they matter one hour older right now.
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters what city you could be
Speaker 1: in Compton, you could be in Alaska. I don't think
Speaker 1: it matter in Anchorage. I don't think it matters what
Speaker 1: city Democrats go to in twenty twenty eight. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you why we come for and see if Eli Addid
Speaker 1: deagrees or disagrees you're listening to Tavismart. You aren't even
Speaker 1: Eli Addy. So here's my read of this, and I
Speaker 1: could be wrong. If I am, you feel free to
Speaker 1: disabuse me of this notion. I used to think these
Speaker 1: cities mattered because there was some strategicy. There's that word again,
Speaker 1: Thanks George W. Bush. There was some strategy that went
Speaker 1: into how these decisions were made, and there still is.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we know the
Speaker 1: South Carolina is the first date in the Democratic primary process,
Speaker 1: and more importantly, we know that these elections come down
Speaker 1: to a handful of swing states, and as you well
Speaker 1: know as well as I do, not just a handful
Speaker 1: of swing states, but a handful of districts inside of
Speaker 1: those swing states. That's how tight these races have become.
Speaker 1: For president, You're looking at a few swing states and
Speaker 1: frankly a handful of districts inside of those swing states.
Speaker 1: I don't know that Philadelphia is the answer to the prayer,
Speaker 1: because it is one of the swingiest of swing states,
Speaker 1: and so that thing can still go the other direction
Speaker 1: even if you meet there for your convention. Denver ain't
Speaker 1: no part of the Democratic base in Denver. I ain't
Speaker 1: hating on Denver, but it ain't no part of your
Speaker 1: base in Denver. And in Boston, Eh, don't get me started.
Speaker 1: So I'm not so sure the mayor of Atlanta, the
Speaker 1: black mayor, is right when he says it's a snub
Speaker 1: to black voters. But you could make the argument about
Speaker 1: black voters. You can make the argument about the South,
Speaker 1: make the argument about rafaol Warknock and John Also, if
Speaker 1: putting off the impossible, you can make the argument about
Speaker 1: Kisha Land's bottoms, a black woman from a mayor of
Speaker 1: Atlanta running for governor. You can make a lot of
Speaker 1: arguments for why Atlanta would be a decent place, perhaps
Speaker 1: the best place to have the convention. But here's why
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, because it's all about those swing states
Speaker 1: and those handful of districts. Who cares where the convention is?
Speaker 1: I digress Elid de Micah's yours.
Speaker 2: No, I completely agree with you, and thank you for
Speaker 2: saying that it's meaningless where the convention is held. I
Speaker 2: think if the convention were held on zoom from you know,
Speaker 2: a fishing vote in Thailand, I don't think it would
Speaker 2: make a difference. There's no voter who cares where it is.
Speaker 2: By and large, you know the sorts of low information
Speaker 2: swing voters who really decide elections, These harder to reach
Speaker 2: voters who have swung back and forth in the last
Speaker 2: couple of elections, you know, younger voters, certain non college educated,
Speaker 2: you know voters, Latino voters. They're not even watching the
Speaker 2: convention at all. It's a TV commercial. It's like saying
Speaker 2: a boy member of General Motors is upset because they're
Speaker 2: filming their next TV commercial in Philly instead of you know, Atlanta.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really make a difference. Now, all due respect
Speaker 2: to the Mayor of Atlanta. What it does bring is
Speaker 2: economic activity, tourism. All your hotels will be booked for
Speaker 2: a bunch of days. But honestly, conventions need to be
Speaker 2: significantly rethought. They used to be the place where nominees
Speaker 2: were chosen and you'd have, you know, eight, ten, twelve
Speaker 2: rounds of balloting before you know, Andrew Jackson would emerge
Speaker 2: as the nominee or whoever. But it doesn't work that
Speaker 2: way anymore. And it's a kind of a traditional exercise
Speaker 2: in a country that has lost its patients with traditionalism.
Speaker 2: And I think we need to give it up, and
Speaker 2: I think we need to stop caring. And maybe the
Speaker 2: next convention should just have different speeches and events from
Speaker 2: nineteen cities and give everybody a piece of the pie,
Speaker 2: and you know, stop the squabbling.
Speaker 1: In our remaining moments, Eli Addie, I will ask you
Speaker 1: whether or not this Republican mid term convention, which has
Speaker 1: never happened before, is going to make a difference in November.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Savage Smiley and the Eliaddy with three
Speaker 1: minutes to go when this first hour and we'll talk
Speaker 1: to out to corn O West top of the second
Speaker 1: ey as we do every Monday and Thursday. So stand
Speaker 1: back for that just a few moments. So Donald Trump
Speaker 1: announced some time ago Elis you know, that they were
Speaker 1: gonna do something they've never done before Republicans. That is,
Speaker 1: I have a midterm convention to rally the troops. They
Speaker 1: chose Dallas as the site of their convention. Speaking of
Speaker 1: convention sites, it will be September ninth and tenth. Will
Speaker 1: it have an impact? Will it rally the troops? Will
Speaker 1: it would it energize the base? Might Donald Trump pull
Speaker 1: off an upset here? We thought there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: big red wave in the mid terms for Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: That red wave never materialize. Might Donald Trump's convention in
Speaker 1: Dallas slow down this predictable or predicted blue wave in November.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. And the reason it won't,
Speaker 2: I mean, for that to happen, I think Donald Trump
Speaker 2: would need a brain transplant because he's incapable of doing
Speaker 2: anything that drives an actual message that voters care about.
Speaker 2: I mean, Republicans in Congress and around the country have
Speaker 2: been you know, sounding, you know, the alarm for months
Speaker 2: now that that you know, inflation, the wars, the rising
Speaker 2: cost of healthcare, that voters, including many Trump voters, have
Speaker 2: real concerns about their pocketbooks and their lives, and none
Speaker 2: of that is being addressed because it's all how can
Speaker 2: he build his ballroom? What new monument can he build
Speaker 2: over here? Can you name ten things after himself? Because
Speaker 2: he knows no one else is going to do it
Speaker 2: after he's gone, and that and whatever they write for him,
Speaker 2: whatever they stick on a teleprompter, is not what he's
Speaker 2: going to say at that midterm convention. And I think
Speaker 2: it's going to be a great big bust. You heard
Speaker 2: it here first.
Speaker 1: There you go. Let me close on this note that
Speaker 1: you raised a moment ago. And I think you're right
Speaker 1: about this. I never heard anybody say it so clearly
Speaker 1: and so plainly. That's why again, he's an Emmy Award
Speaker 1: winning TV writer. This, this pinchion that Donald Trump has
Speaker 1: for naming stuff after him, he's not just born of
Speaker 1: his ego. I think you're right, though, it is born
Speaker 1: of the fact that he knows it. Once he's gone,
Speaker 1: ain't nobody gonna do it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I mean this, you know somewhere, you know,
Speaker 2: deep inside himself, he must have some awareness that he
Speaker 2: is in Ireland in many ways. And I think we're
Speaker 2: going to be reckoning with this presidency for many decades
Speaker 2: to come. How we let it happen? How all the
Speaker 2: china's missing, all the door knobs are gone in that building,
Speaker 2: and all the gold gilded things he's putting there he's
Speaker 2: going to try to stuff into a suitcase. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's this is this is who we chose.
Speaker 1: No, And just just because I'm petty like this, We're
Speaker 1: also gonna be wrestling Eli with how we let him
Speaker 1: get away with it? See what I did there? See
Speaker 1: what I did?
Speaker 2: For sure? I agree with you. You did it well
Speaker 2: as you always do.
Speaker 1: Go wrest with that too. How we let him get
Speaker 1: away with it because Democrats chose not to go after him
Speaker 1: for all his crimes. But I doctor right, all right,
Speaker 1: Eli Addie, you're the best man. Good to have you on.
Speaker 1: Well do it against you?
Speaker 2: Goodtime, my friend. I love being on here.
Speaker 1: I love having you on. Thanks for your time. When
Speaker 1: we come forward to Cornell West, who I also love
Speaker 1: having on this program. You're listening to Tavishment