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True Murder with your host, 34 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:39.239 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 35 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:51.560 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 36 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:54.719 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime 37 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.840 History and the authors that have written about them. In 38 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.000 nineteen eighty and Toledo, Ohio, on one of the holiest 39 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:03.760 days of the church calendar, the body of a nun 40 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:07.799 was discovered in the sacristy of a hospital chapel. Seventy 41 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:10.919 one year old sister Margaret Anne had been strangled and stabbed, 42 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.319 her corpse arranged in a shameful and stomach churning pose, 43 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:20.159 but the police's most likely suspect was inexplicably released and 44 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:24.759 the investigation was quietly buried. Despite damning evidence, Father Gerald 45 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.319 Robinson went free twenty three years later. The priest's name 46 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:32.840 resurfaced in connection with a bizarre case of Satanic ritual abuse. 47 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.520 It prompted investigators to exhume the remains of the slain 48 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.599 nun in search of the proof left behind that would 49 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:43.639 indelibly mark Father Robinson as Sister Margaret Anne's killer. The 50 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.199 Sign of the Devil, When Satan Wore Across He is 51 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.840 a shocking true story of official cover ups, madness, murder 52 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.240 and lies, and an of an unholy human monster who 53 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.120 disguised himself in holy garb. The book were featuring this 54 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.520 evening is When Satan Wore Across by journalist and author 55 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:06.560 Fred Rosen. Welcome back to the program, Fred Rosen, and 56 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:08.199 thank you to reading's this interview. 57 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.840 Well, thank you very much, Dan for having me on 58 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:13.800 once again. It's always a pleasure. 59 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:19.719 Well, thank you. Now this is for our audience too. 60 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:21.520 I've I've put a little blurb on. 61 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.520 Facebook about this case. 62 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.159 This story almost sounds unbelievable and he almost can picture 63 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:33.280 a movie with this kind of almost a screenplay for 64 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:36.080 a movie. I mean, it's just fantastic. Now, just tell 65 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:39.759 us this was a little bit later. This crime happened 66 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:46.960 in the eighties, but you became involved in two thousand 67 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:51.199 and six, tell us, describe why did you decide to 68 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.199 write about this particular case and what was it about 69 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:56.680 this case that interested you so much. 70 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.199 Well, the reason I actually decided to write about the 71 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:04.639 case was because I had interviewed called an Arrow and 72 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:07.280 Carl was one of the survivors of the Son of 73 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:11.439 Sam and I'd interviewed him for another book and we 74 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.479 kept in touch and he told me about this case. 75 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:18.360 It was being featured at that time. It was Core 76 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:23.439 TV today it's True TV. And he told me about it, 77 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.199 and quite frankly, I didn't believe it because the idea 78 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:31.279 of a priest killing a nun, I mean, it sounded 79 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.879 like science fiction or something. And so what I did 80 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.560 was I, you know, I did my research, and I 81 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.759 had written a book called The Historical Atlas of American Crime, 82 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:43.480 which chronicle crime in America from fifteen eighty seven to 83 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.600 the present. And I soon realized that this was a 84 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.800 first an American criminal history, that there was no instance 85 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.600 in American criminal history where a priest was accused, let 86 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:57.079 alone convicted, of killing a nun. And that got me 87 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.720 interested in it, and shortly after that I got very 88 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:04.639 friendly with Dave Davidson, who was the first police officer 89 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:09.120 on the scene. Right, Sister Margaret Ann was killed and 90 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:14.199 basically sacrificed his career and in some way sacrificed part 91 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.279 of his life in order to get. 92 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:17.480 The truth out. 93 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:20.040 And that's what got me interested in the whole thing. 94 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:21.439 Right. 95 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:26.720 Now, take us back to April nineteen eighty and the 96 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:31.040 crime itself. Maybe before we talk about the actual crime, 97 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.519 maybe you can talk about the victim of the characters 98 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:40.800 in this and primarily Margaret and Paul and Gerald Robinson, 99 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.279 Father Gerald Robinson. Take us back to the parish. Tell 100 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.480 us where this is, and we don't even know what 101 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.560 city we're here. We're talking about Ohio. But tell us 102 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.399 a little bit more set the stage for where this occurred, 103 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:57.920 and described the congregation that these people were involved with, 104 00:05:57.959 --> 00:05:59.879 and tell us a little bit about Margaret and Paul 105 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.120 and father Gerald Robinson. 106 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.480 Well, what happened going back to nineteen this goes back, 107 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.079 of course to nineteen eighty. It was a cold case 108 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:14.160 that was solved in the millennium. What happened was it's Toledo, Ohio, 109 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:21.480 and Toledo, Ohio is a well I can't say it 110 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:29.120 was the Catholic Church is very influential and very important 111 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:35.360 to the community in that area. And Sister Margaream Paul 112 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.079 was working at a local hospital with Father Jerry Robinson 113 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:44.600 or Father Gerald Robinson, and these two individuals had had 114 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:52.160 words about differences really about the way that the services 115 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:56.959 should be conducted on a regular basis in the parish. 116 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:01.399 They in particular they worked in in a local hospital, 117 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.040 and there were words between these two. We know about that. 118 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:12.959 And what happened was the there were words between the 119 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:18.959 two and shortly after that Margaret and Paul, who had 120 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.480 been a nun for many many years. She was born 121 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:24.120 in the in the early part of the twentieth century. 122 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.920 She was a dedicated nun and she believed in have 123 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:35.240 an orthodoxy within the religion and which is fine. And 124 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.560 Robinson apparently did not, and he decided to cut short 125 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:46.600 the service on during the it would be the Easter 126 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:53.759 weekend actually, and he and and so eventually what occurs 127 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:58.639 is that in the sacristy, which is right behind the altar, 128 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.720 she was found dead. And she was found dead in 129 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:09.480 a very strange position, with her legs apart. And at 130 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.279 the time the police did not pick up on the 131 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:17.120 pattern of the stab wounds which on her chest which 132 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:22.079 caused her death. And what occurred was that Dave Davidson, 133 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:25.959 the first police officer in the scene, did his job 134 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.920 and questioned the individuals who had come into the sacristy, 135 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.000 the nuns, the doctors, etc. Upon the discovery of the body, 136 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.919 and many of them said, take a look at the priest, 137 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:42.600 and they meant Gerald Robinson, who was the priest who 138 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:49.360 was in charge of the hospital chapel. And from that 139 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:55.480 point onward it gets very very convoluted because Robinson will 140 00:08:55.519 --> 00:09:03.639 eventually be arrested for meeting this crime. And then eventually 141 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:07.440 as the case becomes a cold case for a variety 142 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:11.320 of reasons that we can discuss, and it was quite 143 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:15.159 perplexing to the police at the time because nobody could 144 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:17.639 put together the fact that a priest could do this. 145 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:24.399 And upon my investigation, I discovered that the church in 146 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:30.519 Toledo was complicit with the police department and covering up 147 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:38.639 priestly abuses, specifically pedophilia for the previous so about twenty 148 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:45.200 five thirty years and that led to what would later occur, 149 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.320 which is the arrest of the priest and of course 150 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:53.519 his eventual release isn't that it? 151 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.960 J Okay, Now, before we get that, let's go back. 152 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:00.200 Let's go back to the crime scene as well. Well, 153 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:04.440 because a lot of stuff happens. In terms of potential witnesses. 154 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.240 There is nobody that actually sees Gerald Robinson, but there 155 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:13.559 is somebody leaving the scene running away. Tell us also, 156 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.240 it's very interesting. Is this either a father or he's 157 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:23.919 another priest? Anyway, his name is Sayatak Techi Swya tech. 158 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.720 Maybe you can pronounce that property for me. What did 159 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:31.559 he ask Jerald Robinson shortly after the Margaret and Paul 160 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.240 was discovered murdered, strangled, stabbed and defiled. 161 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.679 Well, there's two things. There's two things to talk about, 162 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:43.440 which is, yes, there was an individual who was seen 163 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.519 walking away from the sacristy shortly after the crime, and 164 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:53.879 that individual would not be identified untill the millennium as 165 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.159 Gerald Robinson. But at the time when Dave Davidson was 166 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:02.320 questioning the witnesses who had come upon the body and 167 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.639 swaya Techi was there. The first thing he says is 168 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:08.159 he goes over to Robinson. He says, why'd you do this? 169 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:15.120 And he immediately suspected Robinson and it would have under 170 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.279 ordinary circumstances, it would have made Robinson the prime suspect. 171 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:25.519 But because of an arrangement that had occurred informally between 172 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:31.320 the police department and the bishop of the diocese. This 173 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.200 wasn't even an arch diocese because it wasn't big enough. 174 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.440 It gets, for lack of a better term, extremely political. 175 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:46.879 And so Swya Techi actually would say that Robinson, he 176 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:52.480 accused Robinson of this crime. And at that point it 177 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:58.120 all sort of goes into a black hole basically because 178 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:04.480 people were protect individuals who work for the church who 179 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.159 had been accused of crimes, and it was an arrangement 180 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:13.080 between the police department and the diocese. And so what 181 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:17.440 occurs is that while Dave Davidson and the other detectives 182 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.799 on the case will do their job at the time, 183 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:28.399 certain things happen such that Robinson, even though he is 184 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.799 brought in for questioning, is released. And I can describe 185 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:34.240 exactly what happens. 186 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.320 Is we go further tell us about the questioning because 187 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:42.960 they they ask obviously Davidson and his partners they ask him. 188 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:45.480 They think he's a likely suspect, so they ask him 189 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:51.480 questions accordingly. And what is his response to the news 190 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.720 that this woman, is that this Margaret and Paul a 191 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.559 Nunn that has worked together with him. 192 00:12:55.960 --> 00:13:01.039 What is his response he claimed, He claims that he 193 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.960 was in a shower, He was upstairs because the people 194 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:10.080 who would work for the church, the nuns in the hospital. 195 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:15.039 This was a hospital run by the Catholic Church. And 196 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:21.000 Robinson would claim that he was in his apartment at 197 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.080 the time, which is in the hospital, that he doesn't 198 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.960 find out about it until somebody gives him a call 199 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.759 and tells him what's going on, at which point he 200 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.559 rushes downstairs. And it was the job of the police 201 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.840 to investigate his claim and decide whether it was a 202 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.919 valid claim or not, whether he was a viable suspect. 203 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.480 And they do find out that about the fact that 204 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:51.399 he and sister Margaret and Paul had disagreed on the 205 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.039 course of the regular service, and they also found out 206 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:59.559 they had some other disagreements. And at that point you 207 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.879 would I think that Robinson would become the prime suspect 208 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.639 and that the police would be centering in on him, 209 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:11.080 which is what they did. And then what occurs is 210 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.279 that Robinson would eventually be brought in for questioning shortly 211 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:19.919 after the crime takes place. And he goes into an 212 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:25.240 interview room and he's there with detectives and they're talking 213 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.000 to him. They give him his rights, and at that 214 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:32.200 point he seems like he's ready to open up, and 215 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.879 then suddenly the door to the interview room opens up 216 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:41.399 and in walks the chief of police, and the chief 217 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:47.000 of police tells Robinson, you're going home. Basically well, and 218 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:54.799 the chief of police was a Roman Catholic, and the 219 00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:00.120 detectives were very very beside themselves for lack of of 220 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.559 any other way of describing it. They'd never seen anything 221 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.960 like this. I personally never heard of anything like this 222 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:10.440 where monsignor could walk into an interrogation with the chief 223 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:14.759 of police and walk the prime suspect out. And at 224 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:20.279 that point Robinson literally disappears into the parish. Until the millennium, 225 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.200 they move him around a lot. And now we see 226 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.320 that that is a fairly common situation when a priest 227 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.440 is accused of a crime, primarily, of course, pedophilia, and 228 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:38.759 he's moved around a lot until later on it becomes 229 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:43.480 a cold case and then somebody claims. A woman comes 230 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:50.120 forward to claim that she was ritualistically abused by a 231 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.799 number of individuals, including Gerald Robinson. When we say ritualistically, 232 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:01.519 we mean satanically. And at that point the police in 233 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:08.200 two thousand and five, they really launch a full scale investigation, 234 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.720 including exooming Margaret am Paul's body, and they take a 235 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:17.679 much closer look at the pattern of the wounds on 236 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.039 her chest, the stab wounds which had caused her death, 237 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.399 and they come to the conclusion and it's pretty obvious 238 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.919 when you look at the photos and I've got those 239 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:32.200 in the book, that she was stabbed in the shape 240 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:38.159 of an inverted cross, which is a Satanic symbol. And 241 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:43.960 the police then call in an actual exorcist who from 242 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.559 the Archdiocese of Chicago as an expert, and they discuss 243 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.039 the situation with him, and he gives them a lot 244 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:58.200 of information about ritualistic abuse, and simultaneously a woman it 245 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.840 comes forward to claim an other woman that Robinson was 246 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.519 involved in a Satanic cult and that she was also 247 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:14.799 ritualistically abused, and so it becomes very, very scary. I 248 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.119 don't know any other way of putting it, that a 249 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.400 priest of the Catholic Church could in some way be 250 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:29.039 involved in a Satanic ritual. And at that point they 251 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:34.039 continue their investigation until eventually Gerald Robinson is charged. By 252 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:38.359 that time, we're about sixteen years it's sixteen years later 253 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.599 from the time the crime first took place, and of 254 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.279 course it gets a lot of headlines in the United States. 255 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.640 I don't know how it was in other venues in 256 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.400 other countries, and it goes forward from there. 257 00:17:54.200 --> 00:18:00.880 Now, tell us who the primary I guessors are in 258 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.400 keeping this. We talked about Davison, Dave Davison, the detective, 259 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:07.720 the guy that really stuck with the story. But there 260 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:12.119 are other people that come to the surface, an organization 261 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.839 called SNAP. So tell us about tell us about this 262 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:20.480 because again, this other important character, this woman that's important 263 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:26.079 to this in having this Gerald Robinson finally at some point, 264 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.240 even though in many years later, be taken to task 265 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.279 and in front of the judiciary. So tell us who 266 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:34.839 this woman is and tell us a little bit about 267 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:37.200 her and how she was involved. 268 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:46.680 She is an advocate for individuals. This individual, Claudia was 269 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:51.720 someone who had been abused by a priest. And Claudia 270 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:57.920 was part of this group that had gotten together and 271 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.680 it's a national group two do something about priestly abuse, 272 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.480 which of course had become front page headlines and still is. 273 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:16.240 And she felt that the police were in cahoots with 274 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:22.119 the Catholic Church in not charging Gerald Robinson with this murder, 275 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:29.079 and so she essentially petitioned, protested that they should get 276 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:35.240 off their keysters and go after him. And she's one 277 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:39.519 of the individuals who helps to get him at least 278 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:44.200 brought in to be questioned one more time. And at 279 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:48.920 the same time, because of what Claudia does, and again 280 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:53.680 because of Davidson, who was again the first comprom the scene, 281 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.319 the police then go back and take a look at 282 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.640 what evidence they had originally, and lo and behold, they 283 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:07.319 find that when they had searched Robinson's quarters back in 284 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.279 nineteen eighty, they find that he has a very well 285 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:20.319 funded publication from the Catholic Church about ritualistic abuse and Satanism, 286 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.680 and at that time they didn't release any of that information. 287 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.000 And so it's a combination really of a number of 288 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:36.119 individuals who come forward to pressure the authorities. Now Claudia 289 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.359 is somebody who's very outfront and would be able to 290 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:44.240 get a lot of headlines. On the other hand, Davidson 291 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.000 was literally drummed out of the police department because he 292 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:53.880 kept pressing to investigate Robinson and charge him, and that's 293 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:58.519 not what his superiors wanted at the time, wanted to do. 294 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:06.240 And so result Robinson, I'm sorry, Davidson, eventually, because of 295 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:11.000 his continued petitioning to look into this thing, not only 296 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.359 does he get black bull from the department, but he's 297 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:20.599 looked at as being a wild card by the state prosecutor, 298 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:25.319 somebody who's not reliable in terms of what he's saying. 299 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:32.440 And so what you have is essentially an old fashioned 300 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:37.319 cover up, and there's nothing unusual about that, Dan, I mean, 301 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:41.359 the only thing that would be unusual here is that 302 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.559 in all of the instances that we have read about 303 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:51.359 and know about in terms of priestly abused, it involves pedophilia. 304 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.119 In this case, that's not what's happening. In this case, 305 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.440 we're talking about murder and ritualistic abuse. Now, the woman 306 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:06.119 who comes forward who I interviewed, who claims that Robinson 307 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.799 had sexually abused her when she was a teenager. She 308 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:16.079 then files a civil suit, which eventually gets dismissed. But 309 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:20.720 she was very very specific about what had occurred and 310 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:24.599 in terms of the actual abuse, and she also implicated 311 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:29.799 other members of the Catholic Church in Toledo, Ohio, and 312 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.799 the reason that I believe that this could go on 313 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.160 for so long, this kind of a cold case, when 314 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.400 you have this kind of strong evidence against a man 315 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.240 who appears to be the bad guy, is because this 316 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:50.640 particular section of Toledo I'm sorry of Ohio is very 317 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.440 very Catholic. It had been settled that way, and in 318 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:58.920 fact Robinson is a priest who is fluent in Polish, 319 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:03.319 so that a Polish Catholics in the parish, and Robinson's 320 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.880 role within the parish was to conduct services in Polish, 321 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:12.240 so he was actually an integral part of the structure 322 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:17.559 of the parish and he served, as I said, a 323 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.720 very important role here. And in addition to Robinson, to 324 00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:26.480 the individuals I've already named, the other people that we 325 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.720 see that become involved are the actual individuals who are 326 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:32.400 heading the parish, including the bishop who has since died, 327 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:38.240 the monsignor who since died, and these individuals, according to 328 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:43.519 the evidence, participated in a cover up. And it goes 329 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.680 even more than that, because it was during my investigation 330 00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:49.200 that I discovered that there had been a papal edict 331 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.960 that said that every parish was supposed to keep secret files. 332 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.000 Every parish in the world and these secret files could 333 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:04.799 be just about anything, and that would include personnel records, 334 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.400 situations like the one we're describing where someone is accused 335 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.480 of a crime and then transferred from one church to 336 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:17.480 another within the parish. And so it's a combination of 337 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:20.079 individuals who come together. 338 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:25.079 Date Judy was boring Hello, Then Judy discovered jumpacasino dot com. 339 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.920 It's my little escape. 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And it was the kind of perfect 362 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:42.880 storm in a sense that the authorities at that point 363 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:46.480 could not ignore, and so they have to go further 364 00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:50.559 with their investigation, which eventually will lead to Robinson being 365 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:51.799 charged with murder. 366 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:53.279 Right. 367 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:59.240 What I found interesting too, Fred, is is that you 368 00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:01.880 put a lot of references in there are very good 369 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.359 in explaining some things, and of course you talk about 370 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:06.640 some movies and and some of those things that just 371 00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:08.160 given a historical. 372 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.240 Background to give it content. 373 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:14.720 Right, right, Let's let's talk a little bit about the 374 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.599 Anton Levy's Satanic Bible and the idea that this human 375 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.400 body can as an altar, and also about the altar 376 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.759 cloth itself tell us a little and the weapon that 377 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:29.640 they at least supposed that they thought that was the 378 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.960 murder weapon itself used to stab Margaret Ann, So tell 379 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.839 us a little bit about Anton Levey and this, and 380 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:40.319 who were the people that were buying into this satanic 381 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:44.400 ritual thing. Was Davison, was he convinced and who did 382 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:46.559 some of this research other than or did you do 383 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.599 the research about the Satanic Bible and the whole feasibility 384 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.599 of the crime scene itself being ritualistic? 385 00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:58.759 Well? I did well in the present, I did the research. 386 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:03.519 But simultaneous viously at the police department was doing that 387 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.680 as well. And I should explain that again when I 388 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:09.119 say the president, I'm talking about we're going We're still 389 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:13.920 going back seven years. But but Levey had written the 390 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:23.319 Satanic Bible, and part of this involves symbols, and the 391 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.720 symbol of the inverted cross being a symbol of the devil. 392 00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:33.359 And what occurs here is that when she is found 393 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:40.759 there is an altar cloth over her, and the the 394 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.400 whoever does this crime had put the altar cloth over 395 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:50.359 her and stabbed her in the pattern of the inverted cross. Now, 396 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.559 the important point here is to understand that none of 397 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:57.039 the police at the time picked up on this. This 398 00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:01.119 doesn't get picked up on until the until relatively the present. 399 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:07.640 And so I went back and I started researching Satanic 400 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:13.799 rituals Catholic rituals to understand what was going on. And 401 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:21.680