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Speaker 1: This is Brian Moore. You listen to the Shirly you

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Can't Be Serious podcast Party on de and Party on Jason.

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Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley you Can't

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Be Serious podcasts. Jason and I are here at this

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beautiful colony spa resort, and there's an old man trying

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to throw himself into a fire and a young woman

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with a lot of cleavage who's given me the wolf

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I if you know what I mean. That's right, that's right.

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Just don't call me a meat loaf. Okay, all right, everybody,

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we are back with part two of The Howling versus

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American Werewolf in London forty years old. This year's good

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part of our Halloween October spectacular. Can't wait to jump

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back into this.

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Speaker 2: These two movies are spectacular. I love both of these movies.

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American Werewolf in London versus The Howling.

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Speaker 1: Here we go. Oh okay, so let's just talk plot

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versus plot on these two movies. All right, yeah, okay,

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So with Howling, just for those of you haven't seen

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it in a while, what you get is a woman

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who is investigating what appears to be a serial killer.

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Right right, We come in on that right, and he

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is giving her phone calls and telling her to meet

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him at a certain spot, and it ends up being

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like a little porno video place where you can go

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and watch the movies in the back room or whatever.

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So she goes in the back room and he's in

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there and he's there to talk her. And then the police,

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who are supposed to be going along, they are showing

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up pretty late, and it's he starts to change in

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the wolf, although you never see that, and then the

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police show up and the young dumb policeman starts shooting

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through the door and it appears that her attacker is killed.

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Right for the whole movie, almost you think this could

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just be a serial killer, and you've got this investigation

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of this serial killer. But then she's going through this,

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she's gone through this traumatic experience. She can't remember what's happened.

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There's this psychiatrist who says, you should come to the colony,

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which is where I treat all of my special cases.

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She and her husband go to the colony. They're weird

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wolf sightings that are going on, while meanwhile her friends,

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the reporters, are investigating the serial killer and ultimately they

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discover his body is missing. Right, there's an actor we

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forgot to mention John Sales is the Morgue mortissue, Is

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that right? Yes? Okay, yeah, I didn't realize that. Ye

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who's like eating Yeah, eatings never bothered me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is like the world's worst police work. At

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the beginning of the helling, let's let a woman walk in,

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lose total contact with her, hang out with a guy

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we knows the serial killer, right, and where's she going?

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I'm not sure did she turned this which way? It's

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like the three stooges, right, are trying to keep track

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of where she is.

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Speaker 1: And I think they kind of tried to keep the

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idea that it was a were wolf a little bit

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of a secret, like they wanted that to be kind

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of a reveal that, hey, this is this guy wasn't

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just a serial killer, he was a werewolf. But they

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think they're dropping plenty of hints. Yes, right, his voice changes, Yeah,

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As it turns out he's escaped from the wargue, the

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dead has risen, and meanwhile her husband gets attacked by

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a wolf and that's when we see the first change

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scene is whenever he starts to change while he's making

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love with this other woman who's obviously also changing. We know,

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okay here there are a couple of were wolves involved here, right.

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Speaker 2: Once he becomes a werewolf, the doctor won't let them

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leave because her husband has been bitten.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And then next thing you know, the entire werewolf colony

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is focused in on eating care.

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Speaker 1: Right. As it turns out the entire colony who we

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thought were patients are all all werewolves, right, that is

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the true big reveal at the end. Even the kindly

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old sheriff Slim Pickens turns out he's a were wolf too.

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That was so unsettling for me to see slim Pickens

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with those sharp teeth, right, I mean, he was just

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the funny sheriff from Blazing Zaddles to me, I didn't

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want him to be a wolf man. Yes, And ultimately

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her friends come up to rescue. Her friends come up,

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one is killed, the other ends up saving her by

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grabbing some silver bullets and shooting away, and they ultimately escaped,

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but she's bitten. And the final scene is her doing

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a broadcast from the newsroom live and changing into a

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werewolf on live TV.

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Speaker 2: She turns into a kN e walk on live TV.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I found out this is Dee Wallace is doing.

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By the way, she was like, I don't want to

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be an ugly wolf. I want to be a cute one.

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Well fail on both of those. I think you were

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neither ugly nor cute. You were just ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: She looked like Chewbaca's wife. Okay, so a couple of

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things you mentioned that I just want to talk about

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really quick.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Her friend Terry gets attacked by werewolf. He chases her

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into a cabin. She manages to cut off his hand

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and then you have this sort of flopping hand effect

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that's unsettling, but it does look like a kitchen.

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Speaker 1: Glove a little bit. Right. We find out later.

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Speaker 2: Who actually attacked her because he's missing his hand. Right later,

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they all get trapped in a barn so that you

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can either kill him by silver bullets.

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Speaker 1: Or by fire. That's the only two ways.

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Speaker 2: And her friend Dennis Dugan shows up. He had purchased

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the silver bullets, and they're like, go ahead and shoot

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tough guy, and he's like he's dropping them.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, crap, crap, silver bullets. Okay, So that's

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the howling. Yeah, solid storyline. It's really good. It's gripping.

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The reveal that all of the patients are actually where

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Wolf's is a pretty strong reveal. Yes, at some point

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she ends up confronting Eddie Quist again, just as she

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happens to come across his file in the medical office,

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right right right, And that's when you have the big

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change scene, the most amazing change scene that anyone up

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until April of nineteen eighty one had ever seen. That's

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where we get to reveal that he's actually a weir wolf.

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Even though we've obviously seen some wolf things going on,

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this is really the we see it happen. We know

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what's going on.

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Speaker 2: She gets away by throwing a big splash of acid

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on a space that's just sitting right there, conveniently convenient.

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Speaker 1: Now, let's talk about American were Wolf in London, right

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comes out six months later. Okay, okay, So storyline for

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American were Wolf in London. You got a couple of

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kids who are doing their backpack trip to Europe, like

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a lot of American kids do. They're up in Wales,

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right on the back of a sheep truck and they

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get warnings the roads, avoid the moors to where them are.

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Speaker 2: Those are the worst instructions with Dillian with the Werewolf

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of All Time.

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Speaker 1: Well, and so they end up at a pub where

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all of the locals are not happy that they're there

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to begin with. The locals eventually relax and start telling jokes,

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and then they ask a question about a pentagram upon

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the wall record scratch it.

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Speaker 2: He calls it a pentangle, thank you pentangle. He calls

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it a pentangle five point star, and then he quotes

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the wolf man Lon Cheney. Right, yeah, and I'm looking

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at it, I'm thinking these people are just.

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Speaker 1: Molly cru fans. So once again they're asked to leave,

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and they're warned, and there's all of this concern like,

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we can't let them go, you can't let them go,

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And I agree, how are you letting these kids go?

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Speaker 2: Not only are they letting them go, they're shunning them.

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They're like, get out right, there's.

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Speaker 1: No food for you here, So it's to be murted.

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Then then is terrible? Yeah, terrible.

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Speaker 2: So then just walking on the moors and the wolf

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chases him down and kills Jack Yep and bites David Yep.

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Before the other one's guilt became so overwhelming they showed

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up with guns, right and shot and.

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Speaker 1: Killed the beast, right, which I had to wonder. I'm like,

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they got to know this guy, right, shouldn't it. I Mean,

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he's not when he's a human, he's not just wandering

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around naked out there. It's their die, it's they they

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know this guy. It's the drinking buddy, I guess. I

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mean it's kind of weird. That's an unanswered question, right, yeah, Okay,

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So he ends up at the hospital in London. Wounds

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have been dressed, but he's having nightmares.

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Speaker 2: He's also falling in love with his nurse, but he's

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having these crazy nightmares where the movie makes a big

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deal about him being Jewish, and so he keeps getting

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attacked by like these dreams where his family is attacked

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by Nazi werewolves and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is and that's one of the that's really

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an unsettling scene.

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Speaker 2: That scene is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Dreams may be the most unsettling part of the whole thing,

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other than that Piccadilly Circus car crash scene. But those

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are all kind of based on this movie called The

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Discreete Charm of the Bourgeoisie. If you want to go

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check out people who get lost in a dream within

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a dream because after that, you know whatever the demon nazis.

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After that dream, he wakes up, he tells the nurse

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what he's just experienced, and she's like, oh, I got

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just the thing for it. Opens up the curtain and

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there's another demon Nazi stabbing her and her twitching body,

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and he wakes up again because it was a dream

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within a dream.

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Speaker 2: And that part when he wakes up that second time,

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it's really funny. After that dream, his dead friend Jack

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comes back and visits him, and he's all torn up

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and bloody, and he's got this little dangling piece of

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skin on his neck and he's like, guess what, David,

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bad news. You're a werewolf. You need to go ahead

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and kill yourself because I can't move on until you

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die because I died an unnatural death.

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Speaker 1: And so it's important that he's having these dreams because

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he's then questioning is this really happening? Or am I

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just having another of these very realistic dreams?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Am I just running through the woods naked and biting

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the head off of Yes. So ultimately he's released from

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the hospital. The nurse has kind of fallen for him,

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so she takes him home but it's been at this

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point about four weeks. It's time for the full moon

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to rise again. Right, And so she leaves him at

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home the next day after an interesting shower scene, and

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he spends the whole day board and saying I'm not hungry,

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until suddenly he's reading a book, tipping my hand here. Yeah,

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that scene took the howling scene and stomped on it

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like it was a baby football. And that it's stomped

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on it like it was an aunt. Okay, baby's pretty

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bad thing to say that.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I totally agree. I mean that scene in

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American World of London, Rick Baker made a huge difference,

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and that scene destroys the howling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we'll finish the plot and let's just

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talk about those two scenes. Okay, Okay. So he goes

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on a killing ramp. He kills a young couple who

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are going out to meet friends for dinner. He kills

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a man on the tubes, he kills three homeless men. Yeah,

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and then wakes up in the zoo and the wolf cage. Right,

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feels great. Meanwhile, the doctor has been investigating the whole time.

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This is almost like a mystery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because when he's in the hospital, he's like the

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Scotland yard shows up and says, the maniac that you

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fought with must have been very strong. He's like, it

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wasn't a man, it was a wolf.

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Speaker 1: It was a wolf.

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Speaker 2: And the doctor's like interesting, yeah, and he's like, doctor,

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I'm not crazy.

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Speaker 1: He was a wolf, right, He's something. Memory is fine.

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So once he's once he's managed to get naked from

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the zoo back over to the nurse's house. Got American

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men still my balloon naked American men stole. He feels

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great and he's excited, and then the cab driver tells them,

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would you guys not hear about all the murders people

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torn to pieces, And suddenly he realizes Jack is right,

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and he tries to get himself arrested without success. Then

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he tells Alex that he loves her and runs away

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so that he won't hurt her. He gives his family

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a I Love you goodbye phone call, but he can't

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bring himself to kill himself. Goes to the movie theater,

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sees Jack sees his other murder victims, realizes that he's

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got to do it, but it's too late. The moon

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comes up again. He turns into the wolf again. He

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starts attacking people again. There's mass chaos, dogs and cats

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living together, huge scene, and all of the police are

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called out with their guns. Alex runs down the alley

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where the wolf is to try to communicate with him.

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We have this brief moment where she says, I love you,

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his eyes softened, then harden, he lunges. The officers shoot

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and suddenly it's not a wolf lying dead but a

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naked David and she's sobbing hysterically. And then bob bob

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dang and dang dang, dang, big bloom and yep.

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Speaker 2: And that was one of Roderivert's big problems with this

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movie is it abruptly ends, and man, it abruptly ends.

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But I think it's really cool.

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Speaker 1: All right, So first let's talk change scene. Okay, if

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you watch the Howling first, you're blown away, right, Yeah,

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it's amazing. It is not the time lapse photos that

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you've seen in all of the other Wolfman movies. This

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is a guy whose flesh inflates. You see the hair

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growing on him, you see his fingers growing, you see

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his nails growing. Rob Botten did a fantastic job. Yes,

256
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but it's also the first time it's ever been done right,

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and so it's like Galaxy in and Galliga.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the first one, you're like, Wow, this

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is great, until you get Gallagh and you're like whoa.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So first problem. At some point his head stops moving.

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The camera moves to give you the impression that the

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head is moving, but they didn't have a mechanism to

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make the head move, and the change occur as the

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snout is growing. The eyes aren't quite right. That's the

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problem give for me, right, it's the eyes, Yeah, and

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the bubbling flashes. It's weird. It's unsettling, right, it looks freaky. Yeah,

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but it's still an incredible change scene. Yeah. Right, but

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it's almost as if he's enjoying. I'm glad that, you know,

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whatever Rick contributed to this that might have come from

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John Landis's original idea ten years before, he didn't contribute that.

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This was painful.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: The guy goes through it and Dee Wallace just has

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to stand there and look at it, right, which is

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also weird. But I've seen people frozen in fear before

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and maybe that's what's going on.

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Speaker 2: One of the main things that you haven't mentioned yet

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that I want to point out. In The Howling they're bipedal, right,

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They're on two feet, they're standing there like a seven

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foot tall standing werewolf. And in an American world from London,

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they're on all fours.

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Speaker 1: It's more like a bear, right.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: John Landis and Rick Baker had this back and forth

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and what would be better, what would be scarier? And

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up to that point, like the wolf Man and all this.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, they're all bipeds. They're all bypeds.

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Speaker 2: I love the bear.

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Speaker 1: You like the wolf Hound of Hell, the Hound of Hell. Yeah, yes,

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So it's interesting. Then the Howling they had made the

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movie without showing the full body wolf. Like you saw

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his head and you would see his hands, and you

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would see you saw the change, but it was all pieces.

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You didn't see that standing up, full body wolf. But

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they ran out of money, right, and so they went

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and they said, look at this, if you give us

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just a few more dollars, we can do the full

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fledged wolf. And so the full fledged wolf is the

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one you see where Terry is being attacked and she

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had to go back, you know, weeks after they had

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shot the original and do it. And she's like, my

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hair's a lot longer now, right, And they're like, nobody's

304
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gonna know, they're gonna know. How are they gonna know?

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They're gonna know? They didn't know. I had no idea

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until she said I was like, oh, her hair is longer.

307
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Holy crap. So it was only after they had done

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the puffet wolf's the head in the frame those scenes

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that they got approval to do that full wolf standing up.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, I didn't know that. That's cool.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So the change scene for American World in London, as

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we've talked about before, David is sitting there reading the

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book and all of a sudden, it's like boom, it

315
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hits him. He's got a splitting headache, like incredibly painful.

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He comes out of nowhere and he's yelling and screaming

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in total pain. And that was something that John Landon

318
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has created. You're not going to sit in a chair

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and just change. It's gonna hurt. And so he's screaming

320
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and changing. He's watching in fear as his hand stretch

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and his body grows hair, which Baker talks about how

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he's so inventive that he's like, you know, what if

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we just put hair, poke it through the skin and

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pull it through. So we pull it backwards. If we

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reverse it, it'll look like there is growing.

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Speaker 1: Brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Looks great. And so they did a scene where David

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KNATONI is a cutout through the floor and so you

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have this weird body attached with his head and his

330
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hands and his arms. Transformation scene is incredible.

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Speaker 1: So that scene where you see him lying on the

332
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floor and he's got kind of the main but it's

333
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still his regular face at this point, and he stares

334
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right in the camera, right, he looks right in the

335
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camera and his eyes are red, no effect. The eyes

336
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were just red because he had been filming all day

337
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long and was completely exhausted. That's good.

338
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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if we've even mentioned this ship.

339
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But as he's fighting and growing and turning into a

340
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werewolf and his face is stretching all this stuff, and

341
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you see kind of the side of the beast, right,

342
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but you don't get a full on look at it.

343
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You really don't get a full look at it. You

344
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see him in the tubes and just for a second,

345
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just for a second, and that scene is so scary.

346
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I want to talk about that. But before we get there.

347
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The how the sound that the wolf makes in an

348
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American Warm for London, it's among the most scariest things

349
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I've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect. It is absolutely bright.

351
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Speaker 2: Oh man, in that beginning scene when he's chasing around

352
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the moors and you can't see him but you can

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hear him.

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Speaker 1: So we're watching these movies, right, and I've been running

355
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and I go early in the morning to run, so

356
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it's still dark outside, and never I mean done, you know,

357
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one hundred miles and not been worried about it until

358
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we start doing these movies. I swear I'm running along

359
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and all of a sudden I hear in the bushes

360
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in the countryside. I'm like, and my face was really

361
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,079
good for that particular run. You're like, what is that?

362
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Speaker 2: How did the Baskervill's Hako's bill?

363
00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:32,079
Speaker 1: So the change scene in the Howling, the head moves

364
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the whole time, like you there's no point in the

365
00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:38,480
change that I can look and I can go, Okay,

366
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now we are just looking at animatronics. We're not looking

367
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at a human being actor anymore. As his face expands,

368
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I'm like, how do they how do they do that?

369
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It's not his he's writhing around as if the pain

370
00:18:50,839 --> 00:18:56,000
is incredibly intense as the mouth is extending. It's incredible.

371
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It's incredible. So then we never see him, like you said,

372
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I ever see him as the wolf until we get

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to the tube scene later that night. Yes, and it's

374
00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:08,839
great because you've got this very tall, gaunt guy get

375
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off of the tube, get off of the subway, and

376
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he's got this moment where he kind of looks around like, Oh,

377
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I'm the only one here. I'm a man, I'm not

378
00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:17,160
going to be scared of this, you know. So you

379
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get the subtext to going through. And then he hears

380
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that noise, right, and he's like trying to talk. He's like,

381
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this isn't funny. We're calling the authorities, right, And then

382
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he sees it but we don't, right, and he takes

383
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off running. You can tell he's like, and I'm not sure.

384
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:34,519
I think it's like a fish eye effect. As you

385
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,160
are the wolf, you are in the position of the

386
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,880
wolf running down the tube, chasing this guy down the

387
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,480
hallways as it goes by. It's just so terrifying.

388
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Speaker 2: There's not one single person there at this time.

389
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Speaker 1: Of day or night, right, apparently not. It's weird, and

390
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,079
so he ends up collapsing on the escalator and you've

391
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,680
got a very very long moment as he's just laying there,

392
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,839
apparently incompact sated on the escalator. I'd be crawling my

393
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,640
butt up the stairs as fast as I could. And

394
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,400
then you're looking at it from the top of the escalator, right,

395
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,799
and you just see the wolf just slowly like it's

396
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,319
not a run in an attack, it's a I know,

397
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,119
I got you step step. And that's the moment we

398
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,240
see the wolf as the wolf for the first time

399
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:26,440
from a long ways away, right. And Rick Baker said

400
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,480
he knew that that was going to be a quick

401
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:30,839
cutaway moment. He knew that they weren't going to show

402
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,519
much of the wolf. It's that Jaws mentality of yep,

403
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,240
brief clips are more scary, right, right, And so he said,

404
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,359
I didn't want to leave it up to the editor

405
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,480
to pick the right moment, So I made the face

406
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as scary as I could for that shot, like it

407
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:49,680
was already scary from the get go. There wasn't any

408
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,240
changing going on, you know that with the animatronics it

409
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,559
was scary now, so that he didn't miss it.

410
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 2: That actor the one who gets killed in the tubes. Yeah,

411
00:20:58,759 --> 00:21:02,720
played big for Tuna, who is like Jaba the HUDs

412
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:05,799
translator in the Return of the Jedi. For you Star

413
00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:07,319
Wars fans out there, that to me.

414
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:13,519
Speaker 1: Is awesome, weak minded four Joba sleepy. You will let

415
00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:17,000
me now, I will let you now, same guy. And

416
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:20,279
so then we have scenes with the wolf as the quadruped,

417
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,920
like you said. And the way they did that was

418
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,200
Rick Baker thought of playing the game Wheelbarrow when he

419
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,359
was a kid, where you'd hold somebody by the legs

420
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,960
and they'd walk on their hands. Well, he just created

421
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,200
something where effectively that's what was happening. And then the

422
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,279
back legs were kind of attached to the front legs,

423
00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:38,440
so it looked like all four legs were moving as

424
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,200
they would with a running wolf.

425
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,079
Speaker 2: Yes, and you got a puppeteer just making the mouth chump, chump, chump, yep,

426
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,599
And it looked great, looked great, Okay.

427
00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: And because of Rick Baker's amazing work on this, he

428
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,319
won the Oscars the first year that they ever had

429
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,319
an oscar for special effects, and Rick Baker won the

430
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:05,440
first of seven wins and eleven nominations, most of any

431
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,000
person in the World. Nice. Yeah, but they didn't create

432
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:10,680
the category for American World from London.

433
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 3: You know what.

434
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,759
Speaker 1: They've created it for the Helling No what the Elephant Man.

435
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right.

436
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: Which had a young actor in it play the doctor,

437
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,640
mister Anthony Alkins.

438
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:22,759
Speaker 2: Yes, and the guy who played the Elephant Man was

439
00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:25,279
John Hurt. He was almost hand ab Elector.

440
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,319
Speaker 1: And he was also the guy from Alien an Alien, Yeah,

441
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:30,119
that guy.

442
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:30,839
Speaker 3: Yeah. All right.

443
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 2: I got just a few tidbits on these movies that

444
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,880
I want to talk about, and then we can talk

445
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,920
about release reception, final judgment sounds great.

446
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:41,079
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, just a couple of tidbits from The Howling. Okay.

447
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,079
Speaker 2: One of the scenes at the beginning of the movie,

448
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,920
Dee Wallace is in the porn shop. She was very

449
00:22:46,039 --> 00:22:48,759
uncomfortable as an actress in that porn shop.

450
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Speaker 1: Midwestern girl.

451
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

452
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

453
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 2: And it's it's not a set, it's an actual porn shop.

454
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. They used to rule.

455
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I saw online. There's some question about which

456
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:01,480
wolf built, right, like who bit Bill?

457
00:23:01,799 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: Huh?

458
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: At the end of the movie, she gets bid by Bill,

459
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,559
her husband, right, so he bites her?

460
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: But who bit built?

461
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 2: Initially and the consensus is it's Marshall.

462
00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: That's good, that makes sense, right, and that's that she

463
00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:16,440
new to be out there right.

464
00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 2: Right, And I don't think there's a right answer. I

465
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,160
just found it interesting that the fans kind of argue about.

466
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,079
Speaker 1: That, right, Okay. Joe Dante does a ton of references

467
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,359
in his movies, right, He's always thrown back to old movies.

468
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,559
But in this one he also did a ton of

469
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:35,640
wolf like throw ins, right, he did, Yeah, And so

470
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,200
I think slim pickens might be eating it. And there's

471
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,160
definitely in the cabin is wolf brand chili? He is, yep.

472
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,400
And at the scene where she's reaching behind her as

473
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,000
he's changing into the wolf and she's reaching for that acid,

474
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,240
there is medicine right next to it called the Wolf

475
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,440
and Brand Medicine. Okay, And this one I have not

476
00:23:56,519 --> 00:23:58,799
read anywhere else. I found this one on my own.

477
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:01,160
I'm sure that it's probably out there's somebody's you know,

478
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,680
there's just no way you're going to miss this. But

479
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:07,599
I happen to notice that her husband Bill is reading

480
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,640
a book in bed when she comes to talk to

481
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,039
him and is interested in fooling around, right, And I

482
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,440
looked up the title to the book, and I was like, okay,

483
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,559
well this isn't about were wolves. I'm like, okay, well,

484
00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:22,480
who's the author? It was Thomas Nice. That is a

485
00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:26,319
pretty deep How about this one?

486
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: Ye, Dennis Diugan is watching a Looney Tunes episode in

487
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,400
the movie Yep, Pigs in a Polka Yep, where the

488
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,319
big bad wolf was chasing them around. Right, lots of

489
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,000
wolf stuff.

490
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,279
Speaker 1: And the funniest line in the movie is in reference

491
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:41,160
to Wolfmanchack. That's right.

492
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,799
Speaker 2: She's talking about hearing a wolf and he says, honey,

493
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:47,039
you're raised in La. The wildest thing you ever heard

494
00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:47,799
was Wolfmanchack.

495
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: Right. Okay. So Dick Miller is the one who owns

496
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,079
the bookstore where they find out all the info about

497
00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:58,000
what's real about were wolves and what's not right right?

498
00:24:58,319 --> 00:25:00,920
And as I mentioned before, he had been in a

499
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,240
lot of Roger Corman movies. One of the biggest one

500
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:06,039
was called a Bucket of Blood. His character's name in

501
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:08,839
a Bucket of Blood Walter Paisley, also his character's name

502
00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:12,920
in this one in the bookstore, there's a mummified grandmother

503
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,759
in an armchair in the attic of the house. It

504
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,680
was the same one that they used in Texas Chainsaw

505
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,319
Massacre because the guy who did all of the set

506
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,440
design for the Howling was the same guy who had

507
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,000
done all the set design for a Texas Chainsaw masker.

508
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,839
And if you go back and watch the Howling thinking

509
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,160
about Texas Chainsaw Masker, it's all the same taxidermy bones

510
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,079
hanging all the same kind of stuff. Wow. Yep.

511
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,759
Speaker 2: Texas Chainsaw Masker based on serial killer ed Geen. The

512
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:44,759
characters of Norman Bates and Buffalo Bill were based on

513
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,960
Flashback to Our Last Time Psycho Side of the Lamps yep.

514
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: And Roger Corman is the guy waiting outside of the

515
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,799
phone booth for her to get done with a phone

516
00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:54,039
call to the very beginning of the movie.

517
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, let's split back over to an American

518
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,839
world in London. I got a few mind blowing tidbits

519
00:25:59,839 --> 00:26:00,519
for you over there.

520
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm ready. Well, that's a marvelous note for a moment

521
00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:13,839
dance with the starve up. All right?

522
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,839
Speaker 2: So do you know the name of the porno that

523
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,440
was shown in the theater when he transforms?

524
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: Of course you do. It's called see you Next Wednesday, See.

525
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,559
Speaker 2: You next Wednesday. Now, if you've listened to our Coming

526
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,400
to America and Trading Places episode. You understand that in

527
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,480
all of his movies, somewhere it says see you next Wednesday.

528
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:38,720
It also shows up in the thriller video Yes, that

529
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:42,079
is directed by John Landis and the makeup is done

530
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,200
by Rick Baker. So Kids American World in London gave

531
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:49,519
us thriller. Michael Jackson was a big fan of this

532
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,480
movie absolutely, and when he went to John Landis, he says,

533
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:54,000
I want you to make me a werewolf.

534
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: Side note. Stanley Kubrick also a big fan of this movie.

535
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,839
Speaker 2: Really cool okay, the music and an America worl from London.

536
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,759
Every song that you hear has the word moon in

537
00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:04,839
the title in some way.

538
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: Yeap. He had picked almost all of these songs back

539
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,759
in the early seventies when he had first written the script.

540
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,440
So you've got Bobby Vinton singing blue Moon during the

541
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,240
opening credits, right when they have the love making scene.

542
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:20,759
That's Van Morrison's Moon Dance that's playing, Yes, just before

543
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:25,119
he changes. You've get Creden's Clearwater Revivals, Bad Moon Rising,

544
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:29,680
and then Sam Cook sings blue Moon when he goes

545
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,880
to that change scene. Originally, John Landis had wanted to

546
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,960
get Elvis's version of that song, but the colonel said

547
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,000
no way. So all right, Sam Cook it is. And

548
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,920
then maybe one of the funniest endings to any scary

549
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,519
movie is when the Marcel's Douop version of Blue Moon

550
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,039
plays over the ending credits.

551
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. He also went really strong after Cat

552
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,359
Stevens moon Shadow, I'm.

553
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,519
Speaker 1: Being followed by the moon Shadow Shadow.

554
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: Shadow, and Kat Stevens, who had converted to Islam, said no,

555
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,039
you know, I don't like the subject matter of this movie. Also,

556
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,039
I believe that there are actual werewolves.

557
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,839
Speaker 1: Gulp, mind blown, nice one, thank you, all right. The

558
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,720
score of the movie was actually composed by our old

559
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,279
friend Elmer Bernstein, who we've talked about multiple times. Ye, Ghostbusters,

560
00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:25,359
Animal House, all of those movies, right, ye, Trading Places, right, yes, right,

561
00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:27,599
got back into the movies because he was a family

562
00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:31,640
friend of John Landerson's family. There are very few parts

563
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,680
that have his music in it. Usually it's that it's

564
00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:38,480
the popular music that's playing, right, But all of the

565
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:42,680
dream sequences have his music, and he composed a piece

566
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:47,640
for the metamorphosis change scene, but John Landers said, no,

567
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:51,400
we're not gonna do that. Well, Almer Bernstein eventually released

568
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,880
a three minute passage of it, and it was called Metamorphosis. Cool.

569
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,839
Speaker 2: Here's something that I found. I had to dig deep

570
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,920
for this. David in the beginning scene when he's on

571
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,200
the moors with Jack, he's wearing a red puffy jacket.

572
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,759
That red jacket was selected for him because John Landis

573
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:11,079
wanted that to resemble red riding Hood.

574
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Thank you a great one, Thanks you,

575
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:15,519
thank you.

576
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:17,119
Speaker 2: Okay, you ready for this tidbit?

577
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: Uh? Okay.

578
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,519
Speaker 2: So in the movie, David is trying to get arrested

579
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:24,200
Solo throw him in jail so he'll protect people.

580
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,279
Speaker 1: From him wolfing out right right.

581
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: So he goes up to a Bobby and he's like,

582
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,640
you arrest me, you jerk, arrest me. I want you

583
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,519
to arrest me right now. The guy's like, go away,

584
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,119
go away. He's like, what do I have to do

585
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:36,720
to get arrested?

586
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: Around here?

587
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth is man, Prince Charles is a right, and

588
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,359
he's running around going crazy. So he makes a derogatory

589
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:49,079
comment about Prince Charles well during the closing credits, say

590
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,440
you see it. So during the closing credits, it says

591
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:58,400
liking Throat Films Limited wishes to extend its heartfelt congratulations

592
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:01,759
to Lady Diana and His Royal Highness, the Prince of

593
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:05,680
Wales on the occasion of their marriage July twenty ninth,

594
00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:06,599
nineteen eighty one.

595
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,039
Speaker 1: How about that solid licenthrope licenthrop licenthrope comes That word

596
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:15,359
comes up in both movies. What is a licen throw?

597
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,359
It is a were wolf? There you go, nice. Okay,

598
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,400
we talked to composers for American More Wolf in London.

599
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,920
It's important to note that Pino Dinaggio was the composer

600
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,559
for this movie, right, Okay, So the way that that

601
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,119
worked out, he had done a bunch of movies, was

602
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,960
a big composer for Brian to Palm, but they had

603
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,920
a low budget on this one, and basically they flew

604
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,640
him in, had him watch the parts where they wanted

605
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,039
music cues, and then he flew back out, composed it

606
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:45,119
all and sent it back to him. There was no

607
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,039
meeting there, it was. It was a very thrown together

608
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:50,960
kind of thing, which I think is hugely important for

609
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,039
these two movies. Okay, So they bring him in to

610
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:54,799
show him the movie and they're trying to talk about

611
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:58,559
the musical cues. But he's Italian, okay, and they don't

612
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,920
speak Italian. Right, So they've got a guy who's there

613
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,200
who's going to help him, but he also doesn't speak Italian.

614
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,519
He speaks Spanish. Well, Pino Donaggio also speaks Spanish. So

615
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:13,480
you have two guys who are both speaking Spanish, not

616
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,880
their native language, to each other, trying to figure out

617
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,160
the film cues and what kind of music you want

618
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,960
for each of these things, right, which is how you

619
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,759
get the music that you get in this particular that's good.

620
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:27,839
Speaker 2: Okay, Before we get the final judgment, d I want

621
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,880
to talk about one thing that we've kind of not

622
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:30,880
covered yet.

623
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:31,319
Speaker 1: Okay.

624
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,119
Speaker 2: The movie posters for both of these movies are fantastic,

625
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,119
like some of the best ever.

626
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:37,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

627
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: So, in America and WORLF in London, you have the

628
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:43,640
two boys in the dark looking over their shoulder, looking

629
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,920
at the moon. They're scared. It's dark, it's scary. There's

630
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,000
no wolf. Nope, there's no cheesy wolf monster nothing. Those

631
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:53,680
just scared beware of the moon, right right.

632
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,319
Speaker 1: It's creepy.

633
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, the howling, you know, it's one of those things.

634
00:31:57,359 --> 00:32:01,160
In the old days, the posters didn't necessarily have anything

635
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,240
to do with the movie. It's had to catch your

636
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,319
eye at the video store.

637
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

638
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,599
Speaker 2: The Howling has a female figure hidden by like some

639
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:10,400
sort of screen.

640
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:13,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the movie screen. And it's like the

641
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:14,400
movie screen, that's right.

642
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:14,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

643
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:18,759
Speaker 2: And her fingers are tearing through. She's got broken fingernails.

644
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: She's screaming. What is super effective? Right? Yeah? What is it?

645
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:23,440
I don't know, but.

646
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: That caught my eye every time I passed it in

647
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,839
the movie theater or at the blockbuster. The better of

648
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,359
these two, I'm going with the Hewling.

649
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: The Howling has the better pressure. Yeap. So I was

650
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,799
thinking about American Werewolf in London, and if you took

651
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,440
out the Wolf where you see the wolf for you know,

652
00:32:38,519 --> 00:32:42,200
flash by at the very beginning, and you take out

653
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,720
the change scene, yes, I would be fascinated, Like this

654
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:49,680
could be just a crazy person, right, this could be

655
00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:52,119
like we're really trying to figure out is he really

656
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,559
crazy or is he really a were wolf? And obviously

657
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:57,720
with the title, you know what you're gonna get sure,

658
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,559
but it's a very compelling movie even without what could

659
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:05,680
be its greatest scene. And that's pretty impressive. That is impressive.

660
00:33:06,039 --> 00:33:08,640
I see what you're saying there. And I also have

661
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,960
to mention the two investigative detectives. Oh my gosh, we

662
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,000
didn't even talk about that. Comedy goal comedy gold. When

663
00:33:18,039 --> 00:33:22,640
he steps back, knocks the bedpans over noisily, tries to

664
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,079
stack them together again, and the doctor is like, tell

665
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,880
him I died? What Tell him I'm dead? Comedy goal.

666
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,799
Speaker 2: The guy who's the clumsy cop and clearly the less

667
00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:40,079
experienced cop, he's the better cop because he knows something's

668
00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:42,599
not right right, And the other guy that keeps shushing,

669
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:47,519
What are you suggesting the entire village can talk to

670
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:48,160
the story?

671
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:55,319
Speaker 1: No, precisely. Okay, I think we've combed these movies thoroughly. Yes,

672
00:33:55,559 --> 00:33:59,079
there's a lot of wolf are in my comb Okay,

673
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:02,559
I think it's time to say final judgment. Okay, let's

674
00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:03,960
go find you go first.

675
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, I love creature features. Okay, I'm

676
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,800
not so much a slasher movie, but but the monster movies,

677
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,119
I really love those. Okay, there's a couple of problems

678
00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:16,760
that I have with both of these movies. The howling

679
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,199
you know that you got the worst police work of

680
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,599
all time at the beginning, the idea that this reporter

681
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,280
is going to go meet with a serial killer and

682
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,719
a porn shop. It's just a terrible idea, Like, no

683
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,920
freaking way that would ever happen. And then her transformation

684
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,079
on screen is supposed to be super impactful and it's

685
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,079
weird and it's it's supposed to be shocking and it is,

686
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:39,039
but it would have been better if she did turn

687
00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:41,920
into a wolf, you know, instead of an ewok.

688
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,159
Speaker 1: Right, okay, so set that aside. Okay.

689
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 2: American Worlf in London is a super high paced, very slick.

690
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: Fun monster movie. Yep.

691
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 2: My only problem with it, and it's I think a

692
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,079
big problem. Yeah, there's no mention of silver bullets or fire.

693
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,119
All it is is just the police just shoot this thing.

694
00:35:02,199 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: Right, Well they mentioned it, what they mentioned silver bullets

695
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:07,679
when they're talking to him in the porn theater about

696
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,119
killing himself. He's like, don't have to have a silver

697
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:12,639
bullet and he's like, come on, David, be real for

698
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:15,360
a minute while he's talking to people, right, that's a

699
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,800
ridiculous sireny Right.

700
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,599
Speaker 2: Well, so for me, this is a supernatural curse that

701
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:23,800
this man is dealing with. He has a supernatural transformation.

702
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,519
The idea that silver would have some sort of supernatural

703
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:29,800
effect on it is not too far fetched for me.

704
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:33,920
If you just have a bearer running around your neighborhood

705
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,840
once a month, would you not just go get your

706
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:36,440
rifle and.

707
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: Go shoot it?

708
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: Right? So I wish that they had made a deal

709
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,400
about you know, silver bullets. Okay, so set that aside.

710
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,639
Other than that, both of these movies are both fun, thrilling, exciting.

711
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,079
The transformation effects are awesome, and then settling. I think

712
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:58,000
American Werewolf is more fun. I find the characters more lovable.

713
00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:01,599
I basically fall in love with Nurse Price every time

714
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:04,719
I watch American Worlf in London. Sure, there's no extra,

715
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,159
it's all killer, no filler. I am slamming the football down.

716
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,679
American World in London is the best of these two movies.

717
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: Ok. I understand, I understand be objectively talking about the

718
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,440
two stories that we have. Yes, if you look at

719
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,119
just the story with American Werewolf in London, you have

720
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:27,159
a guy who gets bitten by a wolf that's a werewolf,

721
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,679
who then turns into a wolf and then gets killed. Yes,

722
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:34,320
and there's a love interest in that, sure, And that's

723
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,119
the whole movie.

724
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: It's it.

725
00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: That's the whole story. Good. It's not particularly complex. Okay,

726
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:42,760
the howling. You have what appears to be a serial

727
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,239
killer on the loose who then attacks a woman who

728
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,239
can't remember things, who then has to go to a

729
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,280
colony of patients who in all respects appear to be

730
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,559
there to try to help. She's talking to the psychiatrist

731
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,920
that try to help, and investigation is going on about

732
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:03,320
this weird serial killer and why nobody knows what's going

733
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,639
on with them. And then suddenly, at the end of

734
00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:08,119
the movie, after you've had some reveals about these people

735
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:12,400
being wolfman, you realize, oh my gosh, the entire colony

736
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,000
that she's been at are all we're wolves who are

737
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:18,840
like forming this army to go out and be a

738
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,639
part of the world. That's a much more compelling story.

739
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,840
That story is awesome, But here's the problem. They had

740
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,280
about a million dollars to make that story. That's right.

741
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,360
They had ten million dollars to make American Wear Wolf

742
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,320
in London, which was not as interesting of a story.

743
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,519
John Sales did a pretty good job with that script. Yeah,

744
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:40,679
but it wasn't as well told as the simpler story.

745
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,679
It wasn't as funny, it wasn't as well acted, and

746
00:37:44,119 --> 00:37:47,000
you can see the production value that comes through. And

747
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:49,599
then the final nail in the coffin for the Howling.

748
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,840
Even though in April it was the greatest change scene

749
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,559
you'd ever seen in your life, come August we had

750
00:37:55,679 --> 00:37:59,280
Rick Baker's change scene that he had been preparing for

751
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,239
for a deck and it blew the doors off of

752
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,880
The Howling. And so sorry the Howling. You are a

753
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,320
fantastic movie for a million dollar movie, one of the best.

754
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:14,920
It's amazing that forty years later, forty years later, we're

755
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,280
still talking about this. Yeah, that's right, but it can't

756
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,239
compare to what John Landis gave us. And I think,

757
00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:24,320
among the other things that I've already discussed, the key

758
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:28,079
is it's funnier. And I don't know why the studios

759
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:31,360
had such an issue, but when you have things as

760
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,119
shocking as what's going on with the murders and the guns,

761
00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:38,559
and the demons and the wolves and all of these things,

762
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,119
you have to juxtapose that with laugh moments, right, it

763
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:46,159
has to be funny at some points, and John Landis

764
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,159
knew how to be funny. It was great. I have

765
00:38:48,199 --> 00:38:50,920
to agree with you. American We're Wolf in London wins

766
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,920
the day. But you've got to give kudos to the

767
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,039
Howling for doing what it did with such a low budget.

768
00:38:57,079 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: Awesome.

769
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: I totally agree. Okay, Dean.

770
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:03,159
Speaker 2: This week on our Shirly Showcase, my good friend Dave Dolphin,

771
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,239
who is on YouTube's a really gifted video producers. Super funny.

772
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,559
He comes up with these videos. I think he's calling

773
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:13,159
it documenting my midlife crisis. When we started this podcast,

774
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,000
we called a couple of people, but he was my

775
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:16,880
first call. I took him to lunch. He gave me

776
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,320
some advice on how to run a podcast, so I'm

777
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,599
super grateful for him. But he wanted to weigh in

778
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,960
on the Michael Jackson Thriller versus Michael Jackson Bad. That's

779
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,679
episode one and two that we did a long time ago,

780
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,280
almost two years ago, and here's what he had to say.

781
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 4: Hey, longtime listener, first time caller to the show, thank

782
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,119
you so much for having me on. I love what

783
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:39,480
you guys are doing, and especially as someone who is

784
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:44,239
in his late forties in documenting his midlife crisis in

785
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,440
a very public way on YouTube. Part of that whole

786
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,840
process is nostalogia and looking back on previous seasons in

787
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,880
our life. If there's ever an artist in a couple

788
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,480
of albums that just could be the pinnacle of that

789
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:01,920
idea of thinking back fondly of the eighties, it's got

790
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,199
to be Michael Jackson and the Thriller record and Bad.

791
00:40:05,519 --> 00:40:08,159
Like when Thriller came out, I was eight, and so

792
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,159
I was just starting to experience pop music and understand

793
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:14,719
what it was and enjoying it and starting to have

794
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,719
opinions on what songs I like versus other songs that

795
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,840
I didn't like, and listening to the radio and knowing

796
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,480
the lyrics, and so as I'm experiencing all of this,

797
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,440
I remember the guy coming to the house to install

798
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:31,119
cable television, and now there's this thing called MTV that

799
00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:35,239
I cannot only listen to these artists that I'm experiencing,

800
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,199
but I can also.

801
00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 3: See them and experience it in that way.

802
00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 4: I remember my buddy from down the street saying, Hey,

803
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,280
do you want to come over? I have the entire

804
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,280
fifteen minute Thriller video recorded on VHS tape and we

805
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,039
can watch that.

806
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 3: I remember this album cover.

807
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 4: My parents had a really large record collection and they

808
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,239
would play music in the house quite a bit, and

809
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:56,400
this was definitely a staple of that. And so I

810
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,440
remember like these songs being played in the house and

811
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:02,760
just seeing the album cover and everything about this record.

812
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,360
There's so many emotional connections in my life to this

813
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,400
record that even forty years later, are still there there.

814
00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:13,840
They'll be with me until the day I die. Now

815
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,199
fast forward to Bad and I'm in middle school, and

816
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,679
I remember a lot of these songs as I go

817
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,880
through the track listing and I listened to it all.

818
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:24,599
I remember it's like, Okay, Dirty Diana, I remember that

819
00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:27,960
sweet Criminal, Bad, the way make me feel. I remember

820
00:41:28,039 --> 00:41:30,679
all these songs, but not in the same way that

821
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,320
I did for Thriller.

822
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 3: Thriller was just creating magic.

823
00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 4: It was there were so many things happening in the

824
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,199
early eighties in terms of like where pop music was

825
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,400
going and some different influences that are coming in. You

826
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,719
add in this new technology with drum machines and synthesizers

827
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:49,000
and all of that, plus Michael Jackson coming off the

828
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:51,960
Jacksons and trying to kind of be his own person.

829
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,760
Thriller was about creating magic. And then Bad was as

830
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,880
the career had just catapulted.

831
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 3: Bad was about.

832
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 4: Maintaining magic, and those are two separate things in terms

833
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,800
of did Bad maintain the magic? Did it continue to

834
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,519
push his career forward as a creative, as a performer,

835
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,519
as a music icon. I think it did that, But

836
00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:20,400
you think about where he was, like where he was

837
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,639
pushing things forwards. The risks that he was taking as

838
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,599
a creative as a performer had more to do I

839
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:29,800
think with like music videos, and he was pushing that

840
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:30,639
forward instead of it.

841
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:33,039
Speaker 3: Just being the band performing the song live.

842
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: How can this be like a fully produced movie with

843
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,079
a story and all this where my song is the

844
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:42,440
soundtrack to this movie. He was also really trying to

845
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:46,159
establish himself as like this sex symbol in just his

846
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,400
place as a music icon in the industry, and I

847
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,039
don't know if that necessarily landed the way that he

848
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:56,679
wanted to. I mean, you can sing I'm bad, I'm bad,

849
00:42:57,159 --> 00:43:01,000
you know it as many times as you want. I

850
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:03,920
don't see you as bad, Like you're not the bad guy,

851
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:07,000
You're the groovy guy. Can you be the groovy guy?

852
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,079
Can you be okay with just being the groovy guy?

853
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:13,280
Let Billie Eilish be the bad guy. That's more believable.

854
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,360
I don't think it landed, but I do applaud him

855
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,119
for taking those risks. But when it comes to the album,

856
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,639
I think the album was more of the foundation to

857
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,639
maintain that magic so he could push these other things forward.

858
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 3: You know, I have.

859
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 4: Teenagers, and so they keep me up to speed on

860
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,519
like today's music and a lot of things that's happening

861
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:37,280
in pop music today with Olivia Rodrigo and The Weekend

862
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,239
and Charlie Pooth. I love where pop music is right now.

863
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,719
But if we're in the car and we're listening to

864
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,159
eighties on eight and a song from Thriller comes on,

865
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,119
if they hear beat it or I want to be

866
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:51,920
starting something for Billy Jean or Thriller, like they know

867
00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:55,480
these songs, they sing along, They weren't even around when

868
00:43:55,639 --> 00:43:59,360
it first came out, and they have these emotional ties

869
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,800
to the record. I don't know if they could name

870
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,159
one song off the bad record. There's a difference between

871
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,199
creating magic and maintaining magic, and it's no small feat

872
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:15,000
to maintain the magic after a record like Thriller. But

873
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:19,800
you just can't ignore the powerhouse that is Thriller. So

874
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,880
I think if this is the battle between Michael Jackson's

875
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,920
Thriller and Michael Jackson's Bad. I think that Thriller wins

876
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:34,079
this one.

877
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I feel vindicated. He's all right, You're all.

878
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 3: Wrong as usual.

879
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: He's a music guy and he votes Thriller for the

880
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:46,920
same reasons that I vote Thriller. Although I will say this,

881
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:49,760
my kids are probably more familiar with the songs off

882
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,920
of Bad than they are off of Thriller, just because

883
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,280
of my bad parenting. But he's still right.

884
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting. Yeah, Dave was a radio DJ, so

885
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,280
he his music. He plays in bands. He's a very

886
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,400
gifted musician. But we're not arguing which album had more

887
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,599
cultural impact. Thriller wins the day on that. I'm just saying,

888
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,719
song for song the better album Bad.

889
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,639
Speaker 1: You call me crazy? Yeah, Dave too.

890
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you very much man.

891
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: We really owe you a lot.

892
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,639
Speaker 2: Thanks for all your advice and your help and and

893
00:45:27,679 --> 00:45:30,480
all that, and thanks for weighing in today. Another vote

894
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,840
for Michael Jackson's Thriller album.

895
00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:34,199
Speaker 1: Be sure and go check those episodes out. And if

896
00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:36,360
you haven't hit the subscribe button yet, if you haven't

897
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,199
hit that follow button yet, be sure to do that

898
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,880
so that you get all of our future episodes as well.

899
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,599
Thank you all so much for joining us. We couldn't

900
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:44,239
do it without you.

901
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: Awesome all right, Shirley fans, that's where we come down

902
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,679
on American World in London versus the Howling

903
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:58,519
Speaker 1: Mo