WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:01.960 Four Finger Discounted. 2 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:20.160 Hey everybody, welcome to four Finger Discount. With this week, 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.000 we're very lucky to be joined by a man who 4 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.079 wrote the episode. We're going to be discussing it's Last 5 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:26.640 Exit the Springfield. You may know his podcasts. Don't be Alone, 6 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:28.760 it's Jay Cogan. Don't be alone with Jay Cogan. How 7 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:29.280 are you going, sir? 8 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:30.800 May be with Jack Cogan. 9 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:31.719 Hat there you go. 10 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:34.439 It's all about the merch guys. Do you have the 11 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:35.479 four Finger Discount merch? 12 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:37.240 Now we've been doing this podcast for ten you still 13 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.240 know merch. We need to get merged merch. The thing is, 14 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:43.119 we used the Simpsons font with our logo back. We 15 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:46.320 know before people care about things and now looking I go, 16 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:48.600 if we do this, Disney going to be angry. 17 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:50.520 It's all a big last suit. 18 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:52.799 Yeah, it's just we need to create a new logo. 19 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:54.840 But then it's like we've had this logo for ten years, 20 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:55.479 all right. 21 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:57.600 People don't like change, they don't. 22 00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:58.359 They certainly do not. 23 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.320 I'm one of those people. I don't like it. 24 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:03.679 Well, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. 25 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:06.680 I'm usually on my podcast Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan, 26 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:09.000 and we normally discussed. We've discussed a lot of Simpson 27 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.959 things on my podcast, but never, we never, We're not 28 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.319 dedicated to the Simpsons. So this is fascinating. And of 29 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:20.120 course last exit to Springfield has been a People seem 30 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:24.319 to love this episode, so I'm glad they do, and 31 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:27.400 I like it okay, But but everybody else seems to love. 32 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:29.799 It absolutely the case. By the way, a little bit 33 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:33.319 of self deprecation to begin, because it's always a tasty spice. 34 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:36.200 But I saw the title of your podcast, Don't be 35 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:38.560 Alone with Jay Cogan. I thought that is heartwarming and sweet. 36 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.519 This is a message that everybody needs. Don't be alone, 37 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.959 you know, create, you know, nourishing, nurturing social circles. Then 38 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.480 I re read it's like, oh yeah, don't be alone 39 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:49.000 with Jake Cogan exactly. 40 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:51.280 Both, It's both. 41 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.359 It works on so many levels. 42 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:56.120 You're it's like a Simpsons joke. You look at it 43 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.000 and then you look at it again. Oh, I get 44 00:01:58.040 --> 00:01:58.560 the other one. 45 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.959 Who's the first per in the site I'd be alone 46 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:01.599 with Jack Kagan? 47 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:02.719 Was it Wally Woollodowski? 48 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:06.319 Wow, don't belong with Jack Cogan. It may be my 49 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:12.759 first babysitter. I'm not sure. But now Wallywalladerski is not afraid, 50 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.199 clearly after all these years, not afraid to be alone 51 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.680 with Jack Cogin. That's not that is not a problem 52 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:18.120 for him. 53 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.400 Were you guys a team when you were on because 54 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.560 you were both pas for Gary Shanling's show. When did 55 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:26.560 it become the duo that we now know in love? 56 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.000 Well, Wally and I were very good friends in high 57 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.599 school and we used to get each other jobs for 58 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:38.080 when we were over the summer. So if I was 59 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.360 working at a movie theater, he'd go work with me 60 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.520 at a movie theater. A record warehouse, he'd go work 61 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.479 with me at a record warehouse. And uh, I got 62 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.159 a job as a production assistant on its Scary Shaling show. 63 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:52.080 And then there was an opening and I called him 64 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.240 and said he had just graduated from college. And I 65 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:57.240 called him and said, you know what, there's a job 66 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.520 over here, and he is being completely and constantly out 67 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:04.479 of work. Said okay, I'll come do that, and he 68 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.759 worked as a production assistant on the show with me, 69 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.280 And while we were there, he said, you know what, 70 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:12.919 let's take a chance at trying to write one of 71 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.719 these episodes, a spec version of the show, and then 72 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.840 we did, and they loved it, but they refused to 73 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:24.479 buy it. They said, okay, well we'll have you write one. 74 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.439 Oh man, we'll have to be assigned a script that 75 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.000 they'll like. Well, they never did that, so then we 76 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.879 wrote another script and then they like that even better 77 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:34.840 than the first one, but also didn't buy it. But 78 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.759 that's the script that I showed a producer who was 79 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.159 on the Tracy Ollman Show. It was on the Gary 80 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.759 Shaling Show. Was also on the Tracy Ollmen Show. And 81 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.039 he said, ah, I think I can get you a 82 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:49.039 writing audition with the executive producers of the show. 83 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:49.560 And we did. 84 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.759 We pitched a bunch of sketches. They picked one. 85 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:52.319 We wrote one. 86 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.759 They liked it enough and said we're willing to hire 87 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:58.319 you at the minimum amount of money that the show 88 00:03:58.319 --> 00:03:59.840 business pays anyone. 89 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.520 Never change. And you said we'll take it. 90 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:05.080 Yeah, we'll peg itt. So we did that. But so 91 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:07.919 why and I his name at the time was Mark Wallace. 92 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:11.719 He changed his name to Wally Walladerski when he became 93 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.680 a professional writer. And so we've been buddies since we 94 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:16.639 were fourteen years old. 95 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:20.279 Can I talk about the logic or maybe like thereof 96 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:23.279 of change your name from Mark Wallace to Wallace Wiladoski. Mely, 97 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.079 Wally Wiladowski does have a ring to it, but kind 98 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.480 of it. I'm thinking of the olden Knights of Hollywood, 99 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:30.600 when Bernie Schwartz had to become Tony Curtis. 100 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.040 Well, it's interesting you say that, because his father, Irv 101 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.600 Waladererski had to change his name to Irv Wallace to 102 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.480 get work in show business as as an assistant director. 103 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.040 So he went from the you know, the old country 104 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:51.399 name to the americanized name, and Mark, being sort of 105 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.199 a good liberal boy, said I'm changing it back reclamation, 106 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:59.839 so that he went back with his name legally became 107 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.160 Mark Wallace Waladarski. It was always Mark Wallace. Now it's 108 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:08.600 Mark Wallace, Waladarski and Waladwallerski alliteration. Oh yeah, memorable, Mark 109 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:09.600 Wallace kind of boring. 110 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:10.839 Have you ever told him that? 111 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:12.360 Oh? He knew. 112 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:14.839 I'd like to ask you about the process of writing 113 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:18.000 with a working partner. I mean, how similar and dissimilar 114 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.160 you have to be in your strengths, in your weak spots, 115 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:23.680 and your preferences and your tastes. I mean, is it 116 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.040 like two people lifting the same couch. Is it one's 117 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:27.360 driving ones navigating? 118 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:28.399 I don't know. 119 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:30.000 How do you discover you work well together? 120 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:32.480 Like two people licking the same catch? 121 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:34.680 What'd you say looking the same cat? That's exactly what 122 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:39.439 I said. This is a common Australian metaphor. We do thing, 123 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:42.040 it's differently down here lifting the same couch? 124 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.600 Shall we lift in the same couch? It is? I 125 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.240 would say, it's not like lifting the same couch. It's 126 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.360 like any it's it's like figuring out where you want 127 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:55.879 to go for dinner. You know, it's like some people 128 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:58.279 are easy going and want to go where you go, 129 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:01.680 some people don't. Sometimes you're in the mood for Chinese. 130 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.199 So here's what happens. The very best version of this 131 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.800 is you like each other okay, and then you appreciate 132 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.519 each other's taste, and you think each other everybody the 133 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.720 other person's funny, and you're willing to listen when they 134 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:17.519 tell you, I don't think what you just said is 135 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.240 very good. In fact, I think it's not very good 136 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.560 at all. And you have to go like, okay, that's 137 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:28.839 fine and not be hurt. So if you know, basically 138 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:31.959 Walawadski knows I love. 139 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:33.600 Him, is that Wally Colling you Van Yah. 140 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:41.480 Now it's my dad, my dad. But wallywas knows that 141 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:44.480 I love him very much. And you know, we've been 142 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.399 buddies' best friends for years and it was the best 143 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.600 man of my wedd So when I say to him 144 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:54.519 that sucks, he knows it's coming from somebody who actually 145 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:57.959 thinks he's funny most of the time and and and 146 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.360 cares about him. And when I hear Jay, that's the 147 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.639 worst piece of shit you've ever thought of, it's also 148 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:05.079 coming from love with a. 149 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:06.680 Little sprinkly of something else on top. 150 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:11.279 Maybe when partnerships go sour, it's usually like a marriage 151 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:15.199 is going, so you don't think the underlining respect is there, 152 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:19.000 and so things can go haywire at a certain point, 153 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:23.160 and they often do. But the other good thing about 154 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.600 partnerships is you don't want anyone in the room who 155 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.120 thinks exactly like you do. You want somebody who think 156 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.920 a little bit differently, so that you have two minds 157 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.560 conquering the same problem from slightly different points of view, 158 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.519 and you're apt to get something interesting going on. You 159 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.759 want paint about it and chocolate right, and that way 160 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.920 we both lock the same cat. You know teams in Hollywood, 161 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.480 they proliferate mainly because you get two writers for the 162 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.759 price of one, and Hollywood loves a bargain, so their chance. 163 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:54.680 The fact that Wally and I were a team, I 164 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.439 think is one of the reasons we got hired on 165 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.040 The Tracy Owens Show because we have got two bodies 166 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:02.680 for the price of one, and so two writers in 167 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:06.759 a writer's room, we're basically doing the work of we're 168 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:08.519 not the two of us aren't doing the work of 169 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:10.759 one writer. When we're in a rear room, we're doing 170 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:12.680 a work of two writers. But they get to pay 171 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:13.720 us half as much money. 172 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:15.680 So you paid a single income for the two of you. 173 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:19.560 Yeah wow, okay, so you're hired as a team. 174 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:21.959 Or hired as a team. We split our salary right 175 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:25.480 down the middle and that so it's a big bargain 176 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:29.079 for them, and we got to leap frog off for 177 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:32.000 other really much more talented people who were much more expensive. 178 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:34.200 So do you think of raising that doesn't exist? Or exist? 179 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.559 It didn't exist as much as it probably should have, 180 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.799 just the grade on the person's behalf because they didn't 181 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:41.639 want to split their money, or is it? How does 182 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:42.120 it work? 183 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:44.639 I mean, when you get to a certain point in 184 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.480 your life where in your career where you're commanding more 185 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.320 money and you're a team, and you're commanding more money 186 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.679 than you're not you're splitting. You're not splitting the minimum. 187 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.039 You're getting as much as any individual writer, and then 188 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:59.840 sometimes more. And then the line of writers lighting teams 189 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:02.679 do split up eventually because they want A they want 190 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.840 creative autonomy and B they want the full salary. So 191 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.480 that happens a lot. And when Wally decided to split 192 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:14.960 off from writing television with me, I was very sad 193 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.759 that he didn't want to do that anymore, didn't want 194 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.039 to work on TV. But I was happy to think, well, 195 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.279 if I ever get hired again, I'll get the full price. 196 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:24.120 What point did that happen was that after you left 197 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:24.960 the Simpsons? Correct? 198 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.440 Yes, we got a development deal after we left the Simpsons, 199 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.200 and we worked for Universal for a while, and that 200 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:35.000 development process really took a lot of joy out of 201 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.000 both of us. But Wally sort of decided I'm going 202 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:40.960 to be He always wanted to bake movies, and so 203 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.000 he says, I'm going to be exclusively movies, and I 204 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:44.440 want to do my own thing. And there was like, 205 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:49.919 I of course said what but then then right after 206 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:52.559 that I said, I for do what you need to do, 207 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:53.600 of course. 208 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.039 But I think it was similar with with Michael reson 209 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:57.840 Nolo Jean. Right, they left to do the critic and 210 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.720 then they just sort of they realized that it wasn't 211 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:01.440 as much fun as the Simpsons. 212 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.919 Yeah. Also, Mike wanted to stop and Al never wanted 213 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:10.320 to stop. Yeah, so that's just a life choice, you know. 214 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.600 It's like Mike likes to travel with his wife. He 215 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:19.559 likes to do stuff. Al does not workhorse. He just 216 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.240 likes to work and work and work and work. 217 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.200 And he didn't stop until this year. Last year. 218 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.200 In fact, Al is the guest and this week's Don't 219 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:29.840 Be Alone with Jay Coogan, Al Jean is my is 220 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:32.919 my is my guest on this week's episode. Yeah no, 221 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:35.039 I mean you can ask Al any question you want. 222 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.039 Is uh, he'll be very nice about it. I'm I'm 223 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:40.600 much more likely to say bad shit about people, but 224 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:45.639 Al will not. But the thing about it is, uh, yes, 225 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.840 we people. People burn out, People get tired. Al Jean 226 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:53.120 worked on the Simpsons for thirty years, I mean, an 227 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:57.159 unbelievable amount of time. On one show. Uh and and 228 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:00.919 and I think most writers, if they said, hey, you 229 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:04.240 could work on one show, even as a show as 230 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.600 good as The Simpsons for thirty years, a lot of 231 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.120 writers go, I don't know, I'd like to try to 232 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:09.919 do other things. 233 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:12.759 I was bad to say. I mean, given the sort 234 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:15.840 of the spectrum of material that you've worked on of 235 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.039 the course of your career, I mean, does that feel 236 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.120 more like a full body creative workout as opposed to 237 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:22.840 just working one muscle as he might be doing on 238 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.519 The Simpsons, even though the Simpsons would probably offer you 239 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.840 a fair bit of scope creatively speaking. 240 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:29.879 I mean, you could do a lot of things on 241 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:33.600 the Simpsons, because it's a cartoon, and you can parody 242 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:35.600 things and do a lot of fantasy things and all 243 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:37.720 kinds of stuff. But I liked working in live action. 244 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.240 I liked working in single camera. I liked working in movies. 245 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:42.840 I like working into a lot of things. So animation 246 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.840 is just one of many things that I wanted to 247 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:51.600 try in my career. So I was interested in working 248 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:55.840 in animation and also in many other things. I got 249 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.519 the opportunity when I got the chance to leave the Simpsons. 250 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.240 I didn't try to make more anime shows. I tried 251 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.320 to make more live action shows, single camera live action 252 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.440 shows and multi camera live action shows. And I've worked 253 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:12.799 on movies, live action movies, some animated movies, and some 254 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.879 sketch shows, some award shows, like anything. A lot of 255 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:17.360 different choices. 256 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:19.279 But predominantly in comedy. You're right, Jay, I mean, I'm 257 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:19.759 looking out of it. 258 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.360 You know you'll see Vogca comedy, all comedy. I've tried 259 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.360 to write drama and that winds up. I can't resist 260 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:26.159 putting jokes in. 261 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.840 So it's something I was curious about because, I mean, 262 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:32.080 your dad was a famous, well well regarded comedy rodit 263 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:35.080 Righte a mad magazine calling me yes, And it's a 264 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.440 very it's a very serendipitous segue that we're talking about 265 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.080 your dad. But was I mean, was it always sort 266 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.360 of on the CODs view that you'd be doing comedy 267 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:43.799 for a living. 268 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.919 Maybe, I mean, I love comedy and I grew up 269 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.919 with comedy, and my ability to make my father laugh 270 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.440 was like my my connective tissue father son connective tissues, 271 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.879 so like he was sort of raising me to do that, 272 00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:59.559 So maybe it was always going to be comedy. I 273 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:01.080 don't know he ever really thought it was going to 274 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.679 be writing. I really didn't think I was going to 275 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.600 be a writer. It looked horrible when my dad did it. 276 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.600 It looked lonely and sad and you know, pulling your 277 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.080 hair out and frustrating and all that other kind of stuff. 278 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.120 So that's the one thing I didn't want to be. 279 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:16.000 I was trying to be an actor and a comedian 280 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.559 and director, and I did special effects. I did a 281 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:22.480 lot of things, and then eventually failed at all those 282 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:23.960 things and eventually became a writer. 283 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:26.639 When you were a kid, you dad obviously could write 284 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.320 very funny jokes. Did you see him as a funny person. 285 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:34.200 Yeah, he's a silly guy. He did a lot of 286 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.799 jokes all day long. But you know, sometimes when he 287 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.519 had to be a dad, he was able to do that. 288 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.519 He put on the dad hat every now and then, 289 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:48.000 especially when I was in trouble. But my dad traditionally 290 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:51.919 did funny things, and he fell into rooms and put 291 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:54.519 whip cream on his face at award shows and like 292 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.720 he was a weird, oh silly, really silly guy. One 293 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.440 time he sent out a Christmas card for our family. 294 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.120 It was me, my sister, my dad, and this blonde 295 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:05.159 lady who had nothing to do with my nothing like 296 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.480 my mom. And he just sent it out to everybody 297 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:09.879 we knew and said, Mary, you know, happy holidays from 298 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:14.000 the Kogans and my my father's friends. Most of them 299 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.759 thought it was a joke and laughed, but there were 300 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:17.639 a few people called up my mom and said, I 301 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:22.320 don't know what happened, but we're on your side. He 302 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:25.720 did me many practical jokes his whole life, and when 303 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.519 I was born, he sent out a birth announcement announcement 304 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.759 with his my father's height and weight on it and uh, 305 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:38.519 you know there's a plank. Yeah, yeah, it was. It 306 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.279 was and continues to this day. He loves a good joke. 307 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.600 He's very funny. And I grew up in the shadow 308 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:47.320 of that buddy. 309 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:49.759 What did he think of your Simpsons work? 310 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.639 Uh, it's good quote. I think he liked it. I 311 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.440 don't think the Simpsons was his. It certainly wasn't his preference. 312 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:59.240 When I told him I'm gonna leave this Emmy Award 313 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.720 winning sketch show to go work on a cartoon live, 314 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.039 you know, a prime time cartoon, he said, you're ruining 315 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.519 your career. Don't do it, you know, that's a big, huge, 316 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.519 huge mistake, and I had to go against my father's advice. 317 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.720 It's interesting because the people that we've spoken to have 318 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.600 worked on The Simpsons, there seems to be real connective 319 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.720 tissue between Mad Magazine and the show. They seem to 320 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:24.960 be a bit of a connective through line or a 321 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:27.080 bit of a two and pray between the two. 322 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.960 Yeah, absolutely, because I mean I think they're both They 323 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:35.840 are both in their era touchstones of comedy for different generations, 324 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:40.200 and so the Mad Magazine sat it out Live Money 325 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:46.799 Python the Simpsons. I mean, there's certain shows and things 326 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.480 that have sort of identified what comedy is in a 327 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.399 particular era, and The Simpsons, certainly in the nineties, was 328 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.639 that thing. So yeah, I mean there's a touchdown and 329 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:58.720 a lot of the people on my writing staff when 330 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.639 I worked at the beginning since loved Mad Magazine and 331 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:04.279 we're heavily influenced by Magnet Magazine. And when I was 332 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.559 able to get all our pictures in Mad Magazine because 333 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.120 my dad's connection, they I was a hero for a 334 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.399 brief moment before they went back to calling me an idiot. 335 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.159 How many of the of the original Simpsons writing stuff 336 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.360 did you know when you joined that first season. How 337 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:18.480 many did you know beforehand? 338 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.120 Well? I knew Sam Simon and Matt Groening, and. 339 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:25.919 So you didn't know Ali didn't know Mike. He didn't 340 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:26.639 know all those guys. 341 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:28.960 Oh, no, hey, we do do. Alan Mike had worked 342 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.320 on the Gary Shandling Show, so I knew them for 343 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:35.879 one season of that. I think maybe I'm trying to 344 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.720 think maybe John Veedy also worked in the Gary Shanling Show. Briefly, 345 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.000 I'm not I don't really remember. But there were a 346 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.600 few people who worked on It's on the Gary Shanling Show. 347 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.200 Not many, but George Meyer I had not known before this, 348 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.080 Jeff Martin and I hadn't known before this. I'm trying 349 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.639 to think of John Schwartzwelder. I certainly didn't know. So 350 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:56.559 a lot of these guys were brand new to me 351 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:57.759 when we showed up. 352 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.639 Did it feel like you'd been picked or somewhat of 353 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.000 a super team by James L. Brooks and Sam Simon. 354 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:08.559 No, well, it didn't feel like we were just a 355 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.039 super team. I like that idea, though. It felt like 356 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.720 we were, yeah, much more close to the underdog. We 357 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:19.920 were going to experiment with this strange little show. That 358 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:24.279 is doomed to failure but could be really funny. And 359 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:28.279 that's what we proceeded to make. We thought James L. 360 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.920 Brooks got us thirteen episodes, not a pilot thirteen episodes, 361 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.839 so we have thirteen episodes to fail, and that's what 362 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.160 we thought we'd do. We just make ourselves laugh and 363 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.680 make it as silly and as crazy and as fun 364 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:44.000 as we wanted to be while also trying to tell 365 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.960 a story and have emotional resonance because our boss, James L. 366 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:51.200 Brooks insists on it. But I mean, we're just, you know, 367 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.920 twenty something idiots and we emotional residents. You know, we're 368 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:59.200 too spectro me to care about emotional resonance. But we 369 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.079 exceed to his wishes and made sure that there is 370 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.440 emotional resonance to the show. And that's why I think 371 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:08.799 the show is actually pretty good, because it matters. Jeah. 372 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:10.759 I'd like to veer a wife from the Sims just quickly, 373 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.160 but I'd like to ask about what you learned at 374 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:17.640 at Groundlings, which is this legendary comedy troupe I guess 375 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:19.640 you'd call it, But was working with those guys a 376 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:21.960 being part of that organization, was it like comedy one. 377 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.440 I won in terms of fundamentals and technique. 378 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.759 Absolutely, it's comedy school and it's writing school. Yeah, because 379 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:30.880 you have to write sketches. It's a sketch troop. It's 380 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:33.359 like Second City or you know a lot of people 381 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.000 from drownings go to Saturn Alive and it's the perfect 382 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.240 It's the perfect place for people who work on certa 383 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:42.960 a live because you write sketches, you do characters. You 384 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:44.759 you know, try to figure out what's funny. You keep 385 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.720 editing and editing and editing, you fix things. You have 386 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:51.039 to agree in the moment, and if you learn an improvisation, 387 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:54.000 you have to be quickly in a scene and saying 388 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:57.319 things that make sense within the scene. So those are 389 00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.799 all great things for comedy writers. So if you're going 390 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:02.880 to a scene write a show, it's good to be 391 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.799 able to think in the voice of one character, then 392 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.519 suddenly think in the voice of another character, and go 393 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.759 back and forth and be consistent. If you're in a 394 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.079 rewrite room with a lot of other writers, it's good 395 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.400 to be able to say yes to what the showrunner 396 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:20.000 wants and agree and then offered eight nine twelve suggestions 397 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.839 on what the joke or the moment could be. So 398 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.079 you're looking at story, you're looking at character. Growling is 399 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.960 a very big on character, and you're looking at comedy. 400 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.960 And it's all being taught to you and forcing you 401 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.799 by doing, by making comedy and learning how to fail, 402 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.440 learning how to go on stage and not be funny 403 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:41.920 or not get a lab when you thought it would, 404 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:46.359 and hone your craft. So Growlings was very essential to 405 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.839 my development and the development of so many others. Like 406 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:54.240 I think half of everybody in comedy at least came 407 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.039 at least half came from the Growlings, the other half 408 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:02.519 from Upfront Gate or Second City or something as else. 409 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.039 But but to stand up comedy, but ours, the Groundings 410 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:07.000 is a very good school. 411 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:08.480 Yeah, it was the ink be audit for people like 412 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:12.119 Will Ferrell, Christen wig Elvira because Andrew paid some even 413 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.480 the Simpsons on Trust mcnail. Yeah, I mean, does a 414 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.440 ground leak recognize another groundling out in the wild, you 415 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:18.079 know if you're. 416 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.680 By reputation, Okay, by reputation. So I kind of keep 417 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:25.559 track of who who came through the school, and I 418 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.400 went there when I was a kid. I started when 419 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.359 I was seventeen and eighteen sou But I keep track 420 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.640 of people, and i know people from the Groundings, and 421 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.079 I'm still friendly with people who I didn't wasn't in 422 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.920 the Groundings, they weren't in my era, but I still 423 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.680 keep up with those those people too. So yeah, the 424 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.400 Groundings still very cool functioning place. 425 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.039 I've seen interviews where you've said some of the best 426 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:50.480 advice you can give comedy udors to when you join 427 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.319 a team is to just shut up and just listen 428 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:54.400 and just take it all in. 429 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.440 When you join a writing staff, Yeah, not a team. 430 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.480 When you draining a writing staff, that's a weird and 431 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:02.480 there's only two of you and one of your shuts up, 432 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.960 that's not a good team. 433 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.400 But you just described the full finger discun done exactly right, exactly. 434 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.799 So what were the first things that you learned when 435 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.000 you went to that Simpsons writers room yet that what 436 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.640 caught you off? 437 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:15.440 Guys, Well, that was my first room. My first room 438 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:20.200 was the Tracy Oman room, and I'm there with James L. Brooks, 439 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:23.480 a guy named Jerry Belsons, very famous comedy writer. Heidi 440 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:25.960 Perlman from Cheers, one of the executi producers of Cheers, 441 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.319 Sam Simon, one of the executivecers of Cheers and Taxi 442 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.759 and ken Aston. So I'm with these giants of comedy 443 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:37.720 and Wiley and I are just these two little peons 444 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.279 who have been hired because we work really cheap. So 445 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:44.799 the idea is be quiet and listen. First of all, 446 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.079 if you're quiet enough, you'll figure out who's in charge, 447 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.880 so you can figure out who's the boss and who 448 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.480 do you want to please. Second of all, every show 449 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.200 has a tone, so you have to really. You can 450 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.480 watch the TV and the TV show and still not 451 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.240 get the tone they're going for. Listening to what people 452 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.400 are doing in the moment gives you the tone. Uh. 453 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:10.000 And then after a few days you start talking suggestions. 454 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.640 Something something you say gets in fantastic, something you say 455 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:17.799 doesn't get in. You're still hustling and working, but don't interfere. 456 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.720 Don't slow them down. You know you're the slow man 457 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:23.279 in the photopol be a lot of people who just 458 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.720 start out want to prove themselves and say and at 459 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.039 the gate they just start pitching ideas, but they're slowing 460 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.400 the room down. Let the big boys handle a lot 461 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.640 of it. And then when you have a moment, try 462 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:38.160 to try to pitch a golden a little golden idea 463 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:39.000 and see if it gets in. 464 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:40.559 But when did you ever feel like one of the 465 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:41.799 big boys at the citizens? 466 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:43.759 Oh? I felt like the big boy at the sentences 467 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.880 right away. Wally and I were first on board, so 468 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.480 like it. It was Matt Groening, Sam Simon and me 469 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.559 and Wally so like everybody else was like you came later, 470 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.599 guys like we felt. We felt very warm and welcome 471 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.559 and and and part of it right away. I wasn't 472 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.920 worried about that. And and the Simpsons. The tone of 473 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.920 The Simpsons was being thought of by all of us 474 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.680 as we were starting figuring out what the show was, 475 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:18.480 and it was growing exponentially with every idea and uh, 476 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:20.519 all the premises that were laying down and all the 477 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:23.319 characters that we were developing. And the very first script 478 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:25.319 that we wrote while and I wrote it was called 479 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.359 Homer's Odyssey, and it was the very first script that 480 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.000 existed for The Simpsons. It was not there was no 481 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:30.680 pilot script. 482 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.759 It was just like we're running a season. 483 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.400 Yeah, one of many in the pipeline, but ours was 484 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:38.400 the first and our first script. I think Homer was 485 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.240 called Homer, but Marge's called Juliette really because she didn't 486 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.640 have a name. Yeah, it was Homer and Juliette because 487 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.319 we were we were trying to be cute. 488 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:47.839 So they hadn't named the characters. But that's crazy. 489 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:53.359 Now mother, father, brother, sister, baby, I think that they were. 490 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:53.640 They were. 491 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:55.640 So the story of when, uh you know, Matt says 492 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:57.200 that when I went into pitch the idea to Fox 493 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:58.720 and You, I had to quickly think of the names 494 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.680 of the of the characters and quickly write them down. 495 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:01.799 I went in and I pitched the idea. 496 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.039 Didn't happen, right, He may he may have had those 497 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.519 and then that, but you didn't tell us. Yeah, and 498 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.400 when we're doing the shorts on the Tracy owned show, 499 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.599 they didn't. Really. Bart may have had a name. I mean, 500 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:17.039 a lot of characters didn't have names, including Marge, so 501 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:19.079 we just made one up. But that's not the one 502 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:23.160 that stuck. Turns out Matt wanted to honor his family, 503 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:24.079 so he did. 504 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.240 You were the big men on campus in the Simpsons 505 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.400 his room. But is there a reset when you move 506 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:31.160 on to different projects, or if you gathered enough sort 507 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.359 of clout and credibility when you move on to say 508 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:34.440 something like Fraser. 509 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:35.880 Every time you go to a grand new show, you're 510 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.720 the logo. It's the same thing. You clam up and 511 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.559 you figure out how does this room work? 512 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:41.039 Yeah? 513 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.119 And who is the person that you really have to 514 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:49.400 pitch to? And who are the assholes? Who're the nice people? 515 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:51.359 And who are my friends? And who are going to 516 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.079 be the people I'm not gonna like? And like, you know, 517 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.039 what's what's the tone going to be? So and especially 518 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.720 on a show that's been on for a couple of years. 519 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.079 I and I've got on a Frasier. It had been 520 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:05.519 on for many years. So I'm walking into a Emmy 521 00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.680 winning TV show that people's going All I can do 522 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.559 when I show up is ruin it. That's the only 523 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.039 thing I could do to change things. So you want 524 00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:16.400 to be very careful, listen to what the show is, 525 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.720 but then do your best to join in and give 526 00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:22.519 them what they need. But you still think it's funny. 527 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.519 You know, be true to yourself, give your own ideas, 528 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:31.200 but you know, learn the layer of the land before 529 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.640 you start making big suggestions. 530 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:39.440 And trouble did you find as times evolve, comedy evolves? 531 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:41.680 But do you find that writer's rooms tend to sort 532 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:43.599 of stay the same when it comes to the structure 533 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:46.119 and vibe or does every show in every year have 534 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.920 its own sort of different vibe in the room. 535 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:53.440 Every show, every show sort of has its own vibe, 536 00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:56.720 and it's usually set by the showrunner. So since showrunners 537 00:25:56.759 --> 00:25:59.160 are all different people, they're going to have different vibes. 538 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.160 The christ Lloyd, Christopher Lloyd, not the actor, the writer 539 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.960 who run who ran the Frasier Writer's Room, has a 540 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.200 much different vibe than Sam Simon had at the at 541 00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:13.599 The Simpsons who had a much different, more different different 542 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.519 vibe than Thenard Boomer had at Malcolm in the Middle 543 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:21.519 and uh Bruce Helford had at The Low Pet Show 544 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:25.240 or something like that. They the showrunner sets the tone 545 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.960 of the humor, but also just the vibe of what 546 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.279 kind of workplaces is. I think everybody who works at 547 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:35.599 any workplace, their bosses set the tone for them. If 548 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:38.200 their boss is a grouch who is you know, hates 549 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:40.400 his life, he's gonna make sure you hate your life. 550 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.359 And if their boss is a sort of Fezziwigs style 551 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.279 lovely man, then your life will be much more lovely too. 552 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.839 So you hope when you get a job that you 553 00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:52.720 find the fezziwigs of the world. 554 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.799 What what best described Sam Simon's vibe? 555 00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:05.160 Uh? Wow, that's a great question. I mean, Samsung is genius, 556 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:09.720 so really funny, but also just a little bit angry. 557 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:16.039 So uh uh and by I say this as someone 558 00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:19.000 who loved him dearly, I love Samsung like a brother. 559 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:21.680 But he he could be really angry. He could scream 560 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:23.519 at you at the top of his lungs. It was 561 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:28.319 he was not shy about overreacting to a million things. 562 00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:32.720 But he's also really smart and really funny, and he 563 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:34.880 could be as ferocious as he could be. He could 564 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:39.119 also be like a lamb at times. But so it 565 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.240 was kind of the vibe is mercurial. What's the weather 566 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.880 like when you watch into Sam? Is he is he 567 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.880 good Sam? Or is he not good Sam? Uh? And 568 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.119 so that's that's the kind of you're walking on eggshells 569 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.839 a little bit when you're dealing with him. 570 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.079 I think that's a difference between angry and angry for 571 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.000 the right raisins. 572 00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:58.839 Though Okay, no, he was not angry for the right reasons. 573 00:27:58.920 --> 00:27:59.400 He wasn't. 574 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.720 No, No, I mean sometimes he was, but sometimes he wasn't. 575 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:06.400 I don't you know, he had he you know, every 576 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.359 we're all products of our childhood, so in his childhood 577 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:13.319 he learned to be quick to anger and then but 578 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:15.799 he's also really, really smart and funny, So I don't know. 579 00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:17.799 Yeah, it was a bad to ask him. Would there 580 00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:19.680 be times when you feel like I shouldn't be taking 581 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:21.799 this personally? I know it's office hours here, but I'm 582 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:23.039 kind of taking this personally. 583 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.319 I think the trick to surviving a show like that 584 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.279 is not taking things personally. Sure, So, like he's just saying, like, 585 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.279 you know, Sam's in a bad mood, doesn't mean I'm horrible. 586 00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.400 If there he's screaming at you for writing the shittiest 587 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.920 script in the world. It's hard not to hear that 588 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:42.559 as a writer and go like, oh, is it really 589 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:46.160 the shittiest script of the world. But and sometimes he's right. 590 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:49.319 Maybe sometimes you've written something bad, But most of the 591 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:52.079 time he's just engaging you in the way he likes 592 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.599 to engage. 593 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.200 When you say angry, then do you mean angry because 594 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.200 you haven't written a joke the way he wanted? Or 595 00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:59.759 is he just in a bad mood because something happened 596 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.440 now out of work and he brought it with him 597 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:02.240 to the office. 598 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:05.079 I mean, he could lash out it for you for anything, 599 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:09.079 any reason at all. So like I remember walking down 600 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:13.759 with Sam down the twentieth century Fox Walkway and then 601 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:15.720 guy ran into him said hey Sam, and then and 602 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.119 Sam just started screaming at him. I was like, Hey Sam, 603 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.359 you're gonna say hey Sam to me? And then and 604 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.440 then he walked. They had this little tiff, and then 605 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:24.680 they walked along and then Sam said, you see what 606 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.480 he said to me? I said, Sam, he said nothing 607 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.160 to you. The guy just said, hello, you heard you 608 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.240 heard something else you heard I'm going to kill you. 609 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:34.880 But what he said was have a nice day. And 610 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:37.160 you know, I don't know why you react the way 611 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:39.720 you did, But they said, really I did, Like he 612 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:44.240 really had had a messed up sense of who was 613 00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.480 coming at him and who was not coming at it. 614 00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:48.480 I find that this so interesting because you never hear 615 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:50.519 these stories best Sam, obviously because he's passed and if 616 00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:52.559 they want to talk positively of him. But I think 617 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.480 it's interesting to hear that there's a reason he was 618 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.880 so successful because he I guess, he got shit done 619 00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.240 and he wanted things done his way. And you gotta 620 00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:00.960 have a bit of mongol you, I guess. 621 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.640 He absolutely want to get shit done and want to 622 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.640 get shit done his way. He's also and this can't 623 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:09.359 be this is not a small thing. One of the 624 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.640 great audiences of the world. So, like he knew who 625 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.480 is funny. He loved to laugh. When somebody wrote something, 626 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.359 he would like laugh hysterically. So he loved people, good 627 00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.000 people and good things. When when they hit him right, 628 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:25.720 he was fantastic. So he found all the writers of 629 00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:28.839 the Simpsons. He found all his people and appreciated them. 630 00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:31.519 And so if that was one of the great writing 631 00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:34.079 staffs of all time, which some people claim it was, 632 00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:36.680 it's cause Sam found those people. 633 00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.839 I don't mean this to be a leading question, Jay, 634 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.160 but I mean it seems like the kind of behavior 635 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.200 that you're talking about with Sam there is becoming less 636 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:49.559 and less tolerated in show business. Is the work diminished 637 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:54.519 as a result? Bet does better work get created if 638 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:58.160 some heads getting kicked? Metaphorically speaking, I mean I would 639 00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.440 say no, I don't. I run shows before it, and 640 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:01.759 I don't kick in people's heads. 641 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:05.680 I try to. I try to give a very warm, welcoming, 642 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:10.400 kind loving environment for people to feel safe to pitch 643 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:14.200 their best work. You know, satun Lahib is a pretty 644 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:18.599 rough and tumble place and people manage to survive that. 645 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.720 It's a very light, cutthroat, you know, pit people against 646 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.720 each other kind of place. So some great work gets 647 00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.119 done there. But my favorite kind of work is when 648 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.920 everyone helps everybody. When when somebody writes something, everybody else 649 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.799 chips in to make that better, and then the cast 650 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.160 chips in to make that better, and everybody tries to 651 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.799 make everybody look good. That's that's magic. That's I had 652 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.680 that at certain places. It was like that. At Frasier 653 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.000 it was like that, and and honestly it was like that. 654 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.039 It's The Simpsons. You know, all the writers really put 655 00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:52.599 in great jokes in everybody's script. So when you know, 656 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.559 you talk about Last Exit to Springfield, that's something that 657 00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.119 was written by me and Wally, but also written by 658 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:00.359 ten other people. 659 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.000 It's probably difficult to review your own work in terms 660 00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:05.880 of ideas and themes and that. But when it comes 661 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.440 to The Simpsons, were there certain things that you found 662 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.240 you and Wally came back to like you wanted to explore. 663 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.640 I mean, these could be like big overriding ideas about 664 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:16.880 community in society or just about family dynamics and character 665 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.680 interaction to mean. 666 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:20.200 We were just trying to mind our childhoods for things 667 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.920 that we thought were fun and interesting. Also, we were 668 00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:26.839 just trying to sell. The way you got an episode 669 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:30.880 is you pitched an idea to Sam or Matt or 670 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:35.599 Jim Brooks, and so you would think about, like, I'm 671 00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:39.599 want to write two to three episodes this season, and 672 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:43.200 then we had we had we had sort of weeks 673 00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.599 where we would a few several few days where this 674 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:50.200 we do a story conference out off lot. We go 675 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.759 to a hotel room and we just pitched stories. And 676 00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.880 so at that point we sort of had ideas. I 677 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:57.599 had a bunch of ideas from that are written down, 678 00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.640 while he had some ideas written down, and I would 679 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.920 pitch it to Sam, and Sam go, oh, that's the 680 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.839 shittiest idea in the world. And then I will I 681 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.640 turned to Jim Brooks during lunch and said, oh, do 682 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.279 you think this one, Jim? And if he liked it, 683 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:11.920 I sold it. Sam had it do it, and so 684 00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:14.799 I was able to push the things. So it's the 685 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.119 idea like the jazz singer, we ripped off the jazz 686 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:20.759 singer and made Krusty for Krusty gets busted. I guess 687 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:24.359 it was a U and I was like father, like 688 00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:28.519 cloud and and that was an idea that Sam hated, 689 00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:31.319 Matt hated. But then I went to Jim and Jim liked. 690 00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:35.359 I said, we gotta do it, so you know, and 691 00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:37.119 that idea why I don't want to do that, I 692 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:39.400 don't know. I just thought it's funny to do a 693 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:41.880 weird show busy story with the weird cloud. So it 694 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.920 it's things that made me laugh or I thought was interesting. 695 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:49.839 Barta Daredelvill came about because we used to see these 696 00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:53.119 ads for truck Asaurus. There is this giant truck that 697 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:56.079 I couldn't figure out why people were going to see 698 00:33:56.119 --> 00:34:00.720 it in the stadium, this monster robot truck, but people 699 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.799 loved it, and so we, uh, we just made fun 700 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.599 of that. And Evil Knievel was a big thing in 701 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.559 our childhood too, so we made a fake Evil can Eevil. 702 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.239 I don't even know when we were doing the nineteen nineties. 703 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:13.880 Evil Canel probably didn't wasn't doing anything, and kids that 704 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.639 era probably have no idea. There wasn't Evil can Eevil. 705 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:19.639 But that's the guy that we were. We were making fun. 706 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.199 We'd heard the name. We probably didn't know who he was, 707 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.239 but he'd become a point with if you did something silly, 708 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.519 you mom and dad would say, who you think you are? Evil? 709 00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:27.360 It's just right. 710 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:28.559 It was a brand by that point. 711 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:35.239 Sure, So I mean crazy lunatic, mostly drunk guy I 712 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.880 don't even know, but I was like, we he jumped 713 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:42.000 over things on his motorcycle. That seemed like if you're 714 00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:44.679 if you're nine years old, that seems like a really 715 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:48.599 cool job. So you're very interested in jumping over things 716 00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:50.920 on your bike, and that was that was fun for us, 717 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.480 So we mind that, we mind other things. We also 718 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.639 knew that if we had a good Lisa episode or 719 00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:00.440 a March episode, a lot of the other riders, who 720 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.039 were let's say say very spectromy who not great with 721 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:10.440 email relationships, didn't want to touch the women characters metaphorically 722 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.559 and not possibly physically, that we weren't servicing those characters. 723 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:16.760 So if we had a good Lisa story or March story, 724 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.960 we knew that's a sale. We could get that then, 725 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:23.400 you know, so we would we would, we would think 726 00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.480 about that too. Those were fund for us ride. 727 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:28.039 I know MEMI wrote the part what became the part 728 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:31.920 of the Simincess Open Fire. Why do you think there 729 00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:35.000 was a real lack of female voice in that writer's 730 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:35.800 room in the beginning. 731 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:41.400 There a couple of reasons. One is, you know, it's misogyny, honestly. 732 00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:46.599 I mean in nineteen ninety there were a few women writers, 733 00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:49.719 but there weren't a lot of men. Weren't seeking out 734 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.159 the voice of women for these things. It was boys club, 735 00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:55.480 mostly white guys. You know, it's like there's a lot 736 00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:00.559 of there was no there was no diversity being sought after, 737 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:07.159 so it was so there was definitely misogyny. The pool 738 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.559 of writers that Sam was looking for was a very 739 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:14.000 limited pool. Was like this, there was a magazine called 740 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:18.880 Army Man that was being self made, and more than 741 00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:21.960 half the writers in that Simpsons room came from Army Man. 742 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:24.920 And there were mostly guys except for like Merrion Marco 743 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:27.239 who didn't want to work in the Simpsons. So like 744 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.639 there's like mostly guys. So that that's the main reason 745 00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:36.360 was the limited view of the pool of writers and 746 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:40.280 the lack of wanting to make a diverse staff was 747 00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:42.400 why there weren't a lot of women writers then. 748 00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:44.400 So you said you were good at writing. March at 749 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:46.400 least the stories you guys to those because the others didn't. 750 00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:48.960 When you didn't have that female voice in the writer's room, 751 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.679 did you ever seek did you ever run and buy 752 00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.400 a female friend of yours whatever and say, hey, what 753 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:53.599 do you think of this idea? Did you have a 754 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.519 chancetick advice from female associates of yours to see whether 755 00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:58.920 you were getting that female voice right in your script? 756 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.119 No? No, I mean I don't know. I mean I 757 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:04.920 didn't run. I didn't run mister Burns's lines by an 758 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.239 evil man either, like I didn't. It's it's being a 759 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:12.519 writer means that that you imagine in your head what 760 00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.320 the characters are like. And accuracy isn't really the goal. 761 00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:21.320 The goal is entertainment and and and the feeling of legitimacy. 762 00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:27.760 And you know, I don't I'm I'm I'm against the 763 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:29.800 way things are right now. To sell a show, you 764 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:32.039 just have to say it was my authentic experience, this 765 00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:34.920 happened to me. And that goes against everything I believe 766 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.400 as a writer. As a writer, you have created freedom 767 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:39.760 to write anything. I should be able to write spy 768 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.760 novels and I should be able to write romance novels, 769 00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.039 and I should be able to write a show about 770 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:49.480 a teenage girl who's also falls in love with alien. 771 00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.440 And none of those things happened to me, but as 772 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.480 a writer, I get to write them, and so uh 773 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:58.519 and and I don't think that a female writer needs 774 00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.599 to check with me to write a male character. I mean, 775 00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:04.360 I don't think that's what we do. We have to 776 00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:08.519 we have experience. I have experience of females in my life, 777 00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:11.679 and I have experiences of evil people in my life. 778 00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.280 And I have experience of moments when I felt like 779 00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:17.320 I was an evil genius even though I wasn't doing 780 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:20.480 mister Burns style evil. But like, we all know what 781 00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:22.800 it's like to be angry but not angry enough to murder, 782 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.360 or angry or fall in love but not fall in 783 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:27.880 love like Romeo and Juliet. We can. We know these 784 00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.239 emotions and we tap into them for our writing, and 785 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.639 writing is for making things that are even more interesting 786 00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:37.280 and fabulous than your real life. So the fact that 787 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:43.639 it doesn't necessarily specifically be authentic, I don't buy that. 788 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:45.679 Oh, don't think you watched those first seasons of The 789 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:47.880 Simpsons and think there was a lack of female of 790 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:50.000 what you don't. It doesn't feel like it's coming across 791 00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:50.960 poorly by any means. 792 00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.320 Yeah. No, And if there was something that you're like 793 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:57.519 really doing the cultural episode about Jewish people or something else, 794 00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.920 then we like we did while and I we did, 795 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:03.559 like fatherlike land about a rabbi. I went and talked 796 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.559 to rabbis and I said, is this real? Would this happen? 797 00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:09.519 What are some things that I could use that are 798 00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:12.719 real from the culture, And so you do research from that, 799 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:15.079 or you do research about Italians, or you do research 800 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.360 about any other culture, and you try and you know, 801 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:21.760 be as accurate as you can and bring forth things 802 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:26.559 that people like. And it does help these days if 803 00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:29.599 you are doing something about someone from a certain culture 804 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:33.000 that that person of that culture is on the writing staff, 805 00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:35.280 I think people feel better about it. But I don't 806 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.000 think it's necessarily the only way to do it. I 807 00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:41.840 would recommend a diverse writing staff. But if you want, 808 00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.880 if I wanted to make a show about Inoit people, 809 00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.199 I still can do that. If I can't find an 810 00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:52.440 Inoit writer available to me who's really funny to hire 811 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.880 on staff, I might be able to still do enough 812 00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:59.719 research to do them proud to make something that's true 813 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:00.320 to into it. 814 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.159 Write what you know is very reductive, but you've got 815 00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:05.440 to add write what you want to know as well. 816 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:08.440 Well. The worst thing every starting out writer rates is 817 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:10.760 it's about a play, right, trying to figure out how 818 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:13.119 to write a play, and like, I want to shoot 819 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.320 myself every time I read that first draft the writer's 820 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.320 first thing, and it's very authentic to who they are. 821 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:24.159 It's like, it's just boring and and cliche. So, yeah, 822 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.599 what give me something more interesting? 823 00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:28.960 You're talking about the success of The Simpsons sort of 824 00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:31.480 was a part of the fact that you guys had 825 00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:35.360 this underdog mentality of what desn't to fail? When you 826 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.639 realize that you weren't going to fail that this is 827 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.840 arguably the biggest show on television. Did the mentality shift 828 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:44.039 in the writer's room? Did the vibe change? What was 829 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:44.440 it like? 830 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.599 I mean, we were shocked, we were thrilled and shocked. 831 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.159 We were having fun, so it meant, oh, we'll get 832 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.719 to make more. This is fantastic. We get to make 833 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:59.920 more fantastic. And further, people were liking the jokes, were like, 834 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.760 what was making us laugh must be making some other 835 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:06.599 people laugh. So that's very life affirming to us. So 836 00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:09.880 that was great. So we wanted to continue making really 837 00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:14.480 funny shows that people would like. I'll tell you about 838 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.719 the end of the first year or season two, we 839 00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.239 got a polling some data from Fox who said, you know, 840 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:27.719 because we thought people love our our insightful wit and 841 00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:31.239 all the detailed jokes and the references to Kirker Guard 842 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:35.000 and to you know, Citizen Kane or whatever and all this, 843 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:39.079 and Fox gave us data that suggested that the reason 844 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.679 people liked The Simpsons was the pretty colors and that 845 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:46.679 people fall down. It was like, fuck, you like that, 846 00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:50.719 that's it, and it's true. Then the pretty colors and 847 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.760 people fall down is happening while we're making fun of Kirkerguard. 848 00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.800 So it's okay, but it was very frustrating to think, 849 00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:58.880 oh no, We're spending all this time to think of 850 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:02.360 the greatest references and use all these things from pop 851 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.199 culture and it doesn't matter. But I guess it does 852 00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.880 ultimately matter. It did. I think the reason the show 853 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.480 survived for that long is it mattered. And those other 854 00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:14.400 cartoons do the same thing. If a family guys all 855 00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:19.559 references and South Park is all pop references, So I 856 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.679 think we're not alone. 857 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:22.559 Who were you writing it for. We're running it for 858 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:25.519 the younger audience or the older audience. You yourself are 859 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:26.280 for ourselves. 860 00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:30.159 Yeah, we didn't think young people or actually kids should 861 00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:32.519 be watching the show. It was definitely not made for kids, 862 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:35.239 so we asked kids not to watch it. Of course 863 00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:39.320 that fell on on deaf ears because it's a cartoon. 864 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:41.480 What of course kids are going to watch it. So 865 00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.199 we kept doing things as if kids weren't watching it, 866 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:46.079 and eventually we had to realize kids are watching it, 867 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:48.119 and we have to watch what we say and what 868 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:51.840 we do. But we were literally exclusively writing it for ourselves. 869 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.119 But there were some dark themes in that first season, 870 00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:56.840 Like you said, Homers Odyssey, Homa is going to commit suicide. 871 00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:59.840 Yeah, and we were trying to we were something dark. 872 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.599 That's one of the darkest episodes in the history of 873 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:02.920 the show. 874 00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.880 I agree. We just we just started out to go 875 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:06.880 and start start with a. 876 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:07.960 Bang, yes. 877 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:11.119 Uh, and go from there. 878 00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.519 Having said that, Jay, I mean, I personally just wanted 879 00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:17.119 to give you a shout out for Old Money, an 880 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:19.320 episode that you that you and Wally right, I mean, 881 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:22.679 dignity on dignity on me, is one of my favorite 882 00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:26.159 lines from any movie or TV episode. Ever, as far as. 883 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:27.719 I'm concerned, he's not bullshiting. He mentions it on the 884 00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:29.159 podcast all the time. 885 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.920 I have no idea if I wrote it or somebody 886 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:33.000 else wrote it, but I thank you on behalf of 887 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:34.599 the many people who could have written it. 888 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.880 And it's not necessarily aimed at a youthful audience one moment, our. 889 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.440 Shows weren't aimed. It aimed at anybody but ourselves for 890 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:46.559 the most words. And so, but aging isn't It is 891 00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:49.159 a real thing, and dying is a real thing. And 892 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.360 you know all that. It's it's uh, gambling is a 893 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.679 real thing. Uh, it's all, it's all, It's all there. 894 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.880 When it came to the pop culture references you would 895 00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:00.639 be making, though, was there a quite of how popular 896 00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:02.119 it had to be or was it just something you 897 00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:04.039 knew You didn't care, you were writing the show for you. 898 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:05.480 It's going in if you thought it was funny, and 899 00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:06.800 James thought it was funny. 900 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:07.480 We. 901 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:12.000 Uh, it had to pass the muster of the room, 902 00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:16.280 like we thought enough enough of our audience would know 903 00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:19.599 it should that should be the rule. Not nobody knows 904 00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:22.599 it shouldn't be so niche that only John Ved knows it. 905 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:25.679 It should be. It should be enough that enough people 906 00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:30.239 understand either the context through context or the specific to 907 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.000 get the joke. So yeah, it couldn't be just anything. 908 00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:35.360 And it had to make a room full of nerdy 909 00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:38.440 you know, I don't know how many there were anytime. 910 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:41.039 Maybe start out with seven of us and grew to 911 00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:44.360 be twelve or something, but it had to make most 912 00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:44.920 of us laugh. 913 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:46.599 Well, that's the thing. Even if you're not one hundred 914 00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:50.719 percent familiar with The Godfather Part two or Yellow Submarine, 915 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.800 you know, the Beetles, you know enough about American cinema, 916 00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:56.840 enough people know about these kinds of things that these 917 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.440 gags in last aeg. Of Springfield are gonna land. They're 918 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.320 gonna hit to some degree or to bearing degrees with 919 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:02.880 bearing members. 920 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:05.440 I mean, I felt pretty safe with Godfather references. This 921 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:08.239 is one of the most seen movies of all time, 922 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.639 and certainly back then, maybe less so now. 923 00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:14.159 But getting him as granular as making him like Don Ferucci, 924 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:15.719 and you know, he's sort of grabbing stuff off there, 925 00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:18.920 heaus off cards and all things, and well the band 926 00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:19.800 all that's kind of stuff. 927 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:20.039 Yeah. 928 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:22.199 In saying that, though, I grew up in the nineties. 929 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.679 I was born in eighty eight, so as a kid, 930 00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:26.920 I literally had no idea what was going on here. 931 00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.719 I didn't know who the Godfather. I didn't know. I 932 00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:30.960 didn't get the Batman reference with the mirror, right, I 933 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.239 didn't get any of this stuff. It's too young, right, 934 00:45:33.639 --> 00:45:35.679 but you knew but it was funny enough you knew 935 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:36.360 it was something. 936 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.079 It's like what kids do when they do six seven now. 937 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.159 It's like they're laughing at something but they don't know 938 00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.920 what it is. Yea, And that's fine, But that's not 939 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.440 as satisfying to me as a writer as people laughing 940 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.280 at something that they know what it is. So I 941 00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:52.840 would rather they recognize Don Ferucci and think that's really 942 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.840 funny that that's what we're doing, rather than just say 943 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:59.599 it's something. Now. When I grew up, I read now 944 00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:02.840 magazine parodies of movies I'd never seen, and at least 945 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.519 i'd read them all. I saw Looney Tune cartoons, Warner 946 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:09.920 Brothers cartoons, also talking about movies. Henry Bargat movies The 947 00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:13.639 Petrified Forest or something I also never seen, and so 948 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:18.000 I understood what humor could be from context. But when 949 00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:20.280 I got older and knew the reference, they were better, 950 00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:23.400 So I think I think they're better when you know. 951 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:25.760 But I think the Simpsons My point was sort of 952 00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.440 more that I think the Simpsons introduced a whole generation 953 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:31.199 of us in the nineties to these pop cultural icons. 954 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:33.119 Yeah, but I'm the point is the same for the 955 00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:36.360 for the World Looney Tunes, and for Mad Magazine. Like 956 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.400 I'm going to go see Lawrence of Arabia because I 957 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:42.360 read it in Mad Magazine and okay, what that movie 958 00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:44.400 came out in nine sixty three. I was not alive. 959 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:46.880 So it's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna see that because 960 00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:48.960 I read the parody and I'm going to try and 961 00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.079 figure out what that song is that Frank Jacobs is 962 00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:55.079 doing a parody of. I'm reading it, so I like, 963 00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:58.440 what's that? What's the real song? So it inspires me 964 00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:01.400 to go look for better references in my. 965 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:04.400 Life with Last Exit the Springfield. So the idea I've read, 966 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:06.639 I've read that that of the plant going a strike 967 00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:09.840 came from Mike Reese. Is that that's correct? Uh? 968 00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:12.000 Well, Mike said, so I don't I don't know that 969 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:13.440 that's true, but okay. 970 00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.679 But what were your thoughts when you were first pitched 971 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:17.679 this idea or was it was it an idea that 972 00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:19.639 you and Wally came up with, Like, how how did 973 00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:21.440 this come about? This, this particular story. 974 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:22.880 I mean I think they they may have said we 975 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.599 want to do a strike episode. Yeah, that may have. 976 00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:29.320 That may have been discussed first. So, I mean, I 977 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:31.079 have no reason to doubt Mike Grease. I mean, he's 978 00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:32.599 a goddamn liar about everything else. 979 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:35.159 But that's one thing you never went on. That submarine 980 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:36.119 never happened exactly. 981 00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:39.360 No, No, I mean it could be, but that that 982 00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:43.400 that seems like a very reasonable story. Like Homer's Odyssey 983 00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:47.599 is basically very almost a strike like an episode. It's 984 00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:50.360 the Homer Homer almost takes down the plant because he's 985 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.480 a safety inspector. So it's similar to that. 986 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:54.760 It's almost like an origin story that episode for Homer, 987 00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:57.559 isn't it. Yeah, how he comes to safety inspector? Yeah? 988 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:02.400 Right. But also there's a you know, we had been 989 00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:05.239 on strike, the writers. I had been at least one 990 00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.440 strike by the time we're doing the last exit episode, 991 00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:11.039 and my father had been on strike many times. So 992 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:14.920 I was very aware. We're very pro union family, you know, 993 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:18.079 I was Writers Guild WGA member before I was born, 994 00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:20.760 and so it's like, you know, I'm a member. I'm 995 00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.519 literally a member of now five or six unions. So 996 00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:26.360 like I'm a big mean union guy, whether I want 997 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:29.559 to be or not. And so we're we're we're fans 998 00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:30.119 of unions. 999 00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:33.559 It's not necessarily a funny concept, though, though the plant 1000 00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:35.480 goes on strike and how do you approach this and go, 1001 00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:37.559 how do we make this funnier? 1002 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:41.280 I would say that anything that's a dramatic subject is 1003 00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:45.079 also a comedy subject. There's no subject that couldn't be funny, 1004 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:48.960 and I don't care what it is. It's anything. If 1005 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:53.559 it's like somebody's somebody's diagnosed with a deadly disease, if 1006 00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:57.239 somebody is is trying to hunt for the murderer of 1007 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.760 his father. You can make anything funny if you choose 1008 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.000 to find the humor in any particular situation of the 1009 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.639 absurdity or the weirdness or all those things. But you 1010 00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:11.039 do need a good story no matter what, And a 1011 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:13.440 good story means there's going to be real conflict and 1012 00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.599 real drama at the heart of every story. When Homer 1013 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.079 invites the Daredevil, when Homer's afraid his kid is going 1014 00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:25.280 to kill himself on a skateboard. That's not funny. You know, 1015 00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:27.599 it's not funny. It's real. It's like you're worried that 1016 00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.400 your kid is he is getting the wrong message from 1017 00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:32.960 daredevils and putting his life in danger. There's nothing funny 1018 00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:36.320 about that. However, we could make it funny by pointing 1019 00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:39.519 up the absurd level of things and how kids don't 1020 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:43.599 really understand things that are dangerous, and the idea that 1021 00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:47.119 there's a popular guy who jumps over things is ridiculous too. 1022 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:49.760 So like if you just highlight put a spotlight on 1023 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:54.320 the stupid of America or culture in general, you'll find 1024 00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.480 what's funny. And there's plenty to put a stoplight to 1025 00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:58.679 put a spotlight on. Well. 1026 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.760 I mean, this is the story of Framed. In another way, 1027 00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:05.480 it's a bolshie union organizer versus a capitalist big wig. 1028 00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:08.159 These two butting heads. They've both got very different drives, 1029 00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:12.840 different desires, except guy one of them's absolute dumbass, right, So. 1030 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.159 Like an idiot, an idiot and an evil guy fighting 1031 00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:19.880 with each other couldn't be funny because you're extreme characters, 1032 00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:26.159 even though the situation you know, healthcare, salary, dignity at 1033 00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:29.960 your work. Those are all not necessarily funny things, but 1034 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:33.760 that's not the center of the center of the story 1035 00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.719 is the conflict between characters. And if those characters funny 1036 00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.400 and they have funny motivations and they do funny things, 1037 00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:40.480 then it can be very funny. 1038 00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:42.360 We're also talking on the emotion as well, and the 1039 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:44.159 drive for Homer to do this in the first place 1040 00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:46.559 is because he wants best for his daughter. That's why 1041 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:48.800 he's doing all of this. So and he's sort of 1042 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:51.440 all he's doing is big thing, but he's oblivious to 1043 00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:53.159 it all. And I like the fact that you have 1044 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.360 the scene just to set up the fact that Burns 1045 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:56.880 doesn't remember who he is, so you can have all 1046 00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:59.159 those moments where Burns is oblivious to the fact that 1047 00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:00.760 Homer's just a blue idiot as well. 1048 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.639 Yeah, I mean, I you know, at a certain point 1049 00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:07.119 it got so stupid for us, even when it says, 1050 00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:11.440 like Homer Simpson, who is he like? Good? That that joke. 1051 00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:13.760 We never got tired of that joke, even though it 1052 00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:20.360 was ridiculous. So I don't know, Yeah, he should be Homer, Marge, 1053 00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:23.559 the Simpsons family should be on the forefront of mister 1054 00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:26.920 Burns's mind because he's dealt with them so many times. 1055 00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.360 But in our little universe, he doesn't care about the 1056 00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:31.079 little Man, so he doesn't. 1057 00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:33.559 Whenever we talk to Matt Salmon, he always says that 1058 00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:35.559 each episode should be viewed in its own vacuum, that 1059 00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:37.159 you shouldn't worry about what comes before. But I think 1060 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:40.119 that there has to be some sort of element of continuity, 1061 00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:42.679 like you're saying, there where Burns probably at this point 1062 00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:43.840 should know who Himer is. 1063 00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:47.760 Matt Matt. Matt needs to work in a vacuum. Matt 1064 00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:50.639 is required. You can't do eight hundred episodes and be 1065 00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:52.639 really worried about the seven hundred and ninety nine that 1066 00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:58.239 came before you. Yes, we were on the episodes twenty yeah, forty, 1067 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:02.280 very reasonable number than not to be aware of what 1068 00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:04.760 the universe was for that show. Then it gets into 1069 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:06.719 the hundreds, forget about it. 1070 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.280 When The Simpsons became a success, did you feel off 1071 00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:11.199 the success yourself? 1072 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.960 I mean yeah, I mean I've Here's the thing. Everybody, 1073 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:19.679 every writer, every actor, everybody I know, we all feel 1074 00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:22.440 like impostors anyway. We all feel like we don't deserve 1075 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.119 the success. That we the success that happens to us 1076 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:31.320 is dumb luck. And you know, the really good stuff 1077 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.199 was written by other people or other actors, and there 1078 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.599 are many more talented people who aren't working and all 1079 00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:39.000 that stuff is all true. So when you wander through 1080 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:43.119 the world knowing that you're just a dumb idiot who 1081 00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:46.960 got lucky, then when something you're working on is very successful, 1082 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:50.400 you go, yes, I got lucky. This is fantastic. And 1083 00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:55.400 then I don't know if you think, boy, it's because 1084 00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:58.800 of my genius. I think you just think I'm working 1085 00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:01.320 with really funny, smart peace people and I should just 1086 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:04.239 shut up and let everybody make my work look better. 1087 00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:08.039 And and I think that's true of most writers and 1088 00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:10.760 most creative people. It's part of us that thinks were 1089 00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:14.159 fantastic and a part of us that thinks we're just 1090 00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:18.320 you know, playing playing game here and hoping that no 1091 00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:22.440 one discovers us. So when the Simpsons became popular, I 1092 00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:26.880 was all all in on enjoying the ride. I knew 1093 00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:29.840 that there was not going to be things like this 1094 00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:32.719 don't happen. I knew that I've been grown up in 1095 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:35.440 show business. I knew things like this don't just happen. 1096 00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:38.800 You don't get on the show that people are selling 1097 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:42.599 T shirts on side of the road, bootleg T shirts. 1098 00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:46.400 Just it's like I had seen Star Wars happen. That 1099 00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:49.119 was like Star Wars. Everybody knew who Star Wars, everybody 1100 00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.800 knew what The Simpsons was at that moment, and it 1101 00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:55.039 was crazy to be in the center of it. But 1102 00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:55.840 I enjoyed it. 1103 00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:58.199 Did James and Matt and Sam. Did they let you 1104 00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:03.000 guys the rotting stuff, let you guys know how important 1105 00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.559 you were to the cog, to the system, or do 1106 00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:07.280 they want you to sort of feel like you should 1107 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:08.880 be thankful to be here, or do they make you 1108 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:11.239 feel like you are part of this You're you're part 1109 00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:11.840 of the reason. 1110 00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:18.920 Yes, they constantly said that we're knuckleheads who are lucky 1111 00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:20.760 to be there, and then every now and then said 1112 00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:22.760 we couldn't do the show without the great writers. So 1113 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:24.920 like it would, they would go back and forth all 1114 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.280 this stuff and what they You know, Jim, Jim believes 1115 00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:32.920 in writers and writing for sure, Sam does too, Matt 1116 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:35.880 does too. I mean, everybody believes in it. But at 1117 00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:40.039 the same time, it's just like we're just all knuckleheads anyway. 1118 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:43.519 I mean, we really were dumb kids. I mean nerdy, 1119 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.840 smart kids, but idiots in our own way. And so 1120 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.960 it was a very motley crue. At the very least. 1121 00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.000 We've asked this question to several of the key writing 1122 00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.599 staff of The Simpsons, But did you yourself? Have you 1123 00:54:55.599 --> 00:54:57.199 ever reflected on and gone I kind of wish I 1124 00:54:57.239 --> 00:54:57.800 didn't leave. 1125 00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:02.119 Now I'm really glad I left. I was tired. I 1126 00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:07.639 was working for five years, no real vacations, nos, NonStop. 1127 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:11.360 I'm mining childhood stories after childhood stories. It's starting to 1128 00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:15.519 get feel the same. And I got a chance to 1129 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:18.079 go work for something else and get paid a shit 1130 00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:21.679 ton of money, So like, all right, well and go 1131 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:23.800 on the next adventure. Like part of the thing about 1132 00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:26.480 being an artist is and again I say the word 1133 00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:29.559 artists knowing that I'm an idiot, but that's fine. Like 1134 00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:32.760 part of the journey of trying to lead a creative 1135 00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:35.519 light is to experience new things and to try new 1136 00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:39.800 things and put yourself in world of change. And at 1137 00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:42.079 least that is for me. And that was exciting to 1138 00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:45.199 try and do that and make our own show. That 1139 00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.039 was an opportunity to make our own show. We spent 1140 00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:49.159 three years trying to make our own show. We were unsuccessful, 1141 00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:52.280 but that was fun to try and do too. We 1142 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.639 learned lessons on how to do it well and some 1143 00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:56.920 things we didn't want to repeat, and I wanted the 1144 00:55:56.920 --> 00:55:59.960 opportunity to do it myself. And I've eventually got those opportunities. 1145 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:04.159 But it takes branching out and trying new things. 1146 00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.800 Do you think it's important as an artist to never 1147 00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:08.920 be comfortable. 1148 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.039 Financially, artistically comfortable. 1149 00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:14.159 How comfortable in a sense of you know you've got 1150 00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:16.360 this gig, you don't have to leave, they're not getting 1151 00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:16.840 it rid of you. 1152 00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:20.519 Yes, even if you work forever, if you're Al Jean 1153 00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.440 or Matt Sellman and you work on this show and 1154 00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:25.760 you know you're not going anywhere, it's one of the things. 1155 00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:29.639 You're still uncomfortable because every episode is tough, and every 1156 00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:32.800 story breaking is uncomfortable, and there's always going to be 1157 00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:35.480 days where you're spending like staring at each other saying 1158 00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:37.960 we can't break the story and this joke doesn't work. 1159 00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:40.880 Discomfort comes with the process, So I don't think we 1160 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:44.079 have the manufactured discomfort to be a good artist. It's 1161 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:45.119 part of the process. 1162 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:47.719 Figuring me if this sounds like an absolute rookie question, Jay, 1163 00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:50.320 which it is. But I mean, I'm always curious about 1164 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.920 the term breaking the story. What exactly do you mean 1165 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:53.119 by it? 1166 00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:56.400 So breaking the story is a term for coming up 1167 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.360 with a good story. So you come up with an idea, 1168 00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:04.320 and maybe the idea is that the plant goes on strike, 1169 00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.800 but that's just an idea. That's not the story. The story. 1170 00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:09.800 Why does the plant go on strike? And why does 1171 00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:12.719 and how is Homer involved? And what does Homer do 1172 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:15.719 to make it work and make it worse? And what 1173 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:18.000 happens when that gets is worse? And what are the 1174 00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:21.679 what are the details of the story to make it worthwhile? 1175 00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.360 And those details are called breaking the story. And they 1176 00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:27.719 called it sounds violent because it is kind of violent. 1177 00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:30.199 Breaking it is really sort of figuring out, like breaking 1178 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:33.880 out a pony, Like we're gonna we're gonna tame it 1179 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:36.960 and make it into something that we liked, that's understandable 1180 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.480 and that makes sense, and it's surprising and it's interesting 1181 00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:42.679 and all those things. And to be all those things 1182 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:44.920 is really hard, and it takes a lot of really 1183 00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:49.039 creative minds to make good ones, and you it's easy 1184 00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:51.719 to make bad ones. Actually it's not easy to make it. 1185 00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:53.760 It's still hard to make bad ones, but it's hard. 1186 00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:56.159 The whole process is hard. So that's why I bring 1187 00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:58.519 and story is the hardest part of the whole job. 1188 00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:04.199 Every everybody will tell you that jokes are easy. Story 1189 00:58:04.280 --> 00:58:06.920 is hard. And figuring out what the story is going 1190 00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:08.760 to be and making it one that you haven't seen 1191 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:10.960 before and one that you don't know exactly where it's going, 1192 00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:14.719 and one that's having fun interesting stops along the way. 1193 00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:18.039 That's a hard thing and that's what you have to 1194 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:23.239 choose to really dedicate yourself to do. And that's what 1195 00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:28.119 you know. Really great shows are based on having really 1196 00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:29.000 good storytellers. 1197 00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:31.360 Did you know this was going to be your last 1198 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:33.440 episode last day at Springfield when you were writing it? 1199 00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:38.480 H I think so. I think we knew that it 1200 00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:40.119 was going to be our last episode because we had 1201 00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:44.480 signed a deal of some kind, although there was always 1202 00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.519 an opportunity to come back and write another one at 1203 00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:49.719 some other point in time. But no one has ever 1204 00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:50.760 asked us. 1205 00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:54.119 So you went part of the Simpsons movie or anything 1206 00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:54.519 like that. 1207 00:58:54.679 --> 00:58:56.400 No, the people who were on the Simpsons movie were 1208 00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:58.559 people who were working on the show at the time. 1209 00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:00.320 I thought they brought some of the original Rode back 1210 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:00.559 for that. 1211 00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:02.360 I don't know. I mean that George was still there 1212 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:08.119 and I was there, Mike was there, still consulting capacity, 1213 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.280 like all those people were kind of still in the orbit. 1214 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:13.880 But maybe they just hate us. 1215 00:59:14.119 --> 00:59:17.800 Possibly could be they just said you're but uh, the 1216 00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:19.719 thing is because I'm watching this knowing it was your 1217 00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:22.000 last episode, and rewatching it for the for this, and 1218 00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:25.039 it's it feels like there's just so many jokes cranny. 1219 00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.519 Obviously that was just how The Simpsons worked. But I 1220 00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:29.639 just didn't know whether it was the idea of We're 1221 00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:31.800 just gonna cram in as many ideas as we had, 1222 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:34.159 because it was like a last Hurrah kind of mentality. 1223 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:35.840 I don't think that's it. I just think that's what 1224 00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:39.639 the Simpsons was. Like, We're just jamming ideas and jokes 1225 00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:42.039 and ideas and jokes and ideas and jokes and having 1226 00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:44.400 some sort of heart in the center of it that 1227 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:47.440 that makes sense, and some some you know, father daughter 1228 00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:53.079 loving situation going on, and you know, and and Lisa's 1229 00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:58.320 idealism going on. Like we had some legitimate things in 1230 00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:01.519 the episode, but mostly it was just like how many jokes. 1231 01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:04.599 Can we tell what can we make if it's funny? Uh, 1232 01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:07.039 and let's be as funny as we possibly can. But 1233 01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:09.320 that was every episode of the Simpsons we ever made. Was 1234 01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:10.079 that was trying to be? 1235 01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:12.360 That was it? Did you have sort of a time 1236 01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:14.559 limit of how long was too long? With add a 1237 01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:15.559 gag of some kind? 1238 01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:21.079 Uh, it's to taste. So like, for example, the joke 1239 01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:25.159 where Lisa needs. 1240 01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:27.039 Uh, dental plan Lisa needs brices. 1241 01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:29.800 Right, dental plan Lisa needs braces. It just goes back 1242 01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:33.159 and forth a lot of times what we wrote, what 1243 01:00:33.320 --> 01:00:36.119 I wrote this, that particular joke I wrote. I think 1244 01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:39.519 I did it on four pages long, maybe five, just 1245 01:00:39.559 --> 01:00:41.679 back and forth of that that joke. I thought that 1246 01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.480 joke Coo would stand forever, like I found. I felt 1247 01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:47.559 there was a joke that would go laugh at first, 1248 01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:50.119 then it's like why does it keep going? And then 1249 01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:52.840 laugh again? Oh my god, it's keep going, and then 1250 01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:55.320 laugh again. And I thought it could stand a really 1251 01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.960 long time, and it wound up being thirty seconds maybe, 1252 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:03.440 But I my original thought was two minutes. 1253 01:01:03.800 --> 01:01:05.920 You know, it was always just dental plan lace and 1254 01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:07.480 these prices or is there other No? 1255 01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:10.679 I think that was it. I just Devil Brown lacing 1256 01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:15.679 these braces. Maybe one other thought in the middle, but 1257 01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:17.480 I don't think so. It was really just that back 1258 01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:19.320 and forth, back and forth, back and forth, simple back 1259 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:22.599 and forth, showing basically how stupid Homer is. 1260 01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:24.159 Is that why you break it up with the pencil 1261 01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:25.920 down the butt crack, just to sort of separate it 1262 01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:27.719 a bit, because you thought more will the audience be 1263 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:28.880 able to stick it out this long? 1264 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.559 Or I don't remember. I think maybe the butt the 1265 01:01:32.599 --> 01:01:34.800 pencil and the butt crack wasn't mine. I think maybe 1266 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:36.599 that's something that you'd l add it in. But I 1267 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.880 just thought it was really funny to just be stuck 1268 01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:40.840 in that moment. 1269 01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:43.079 Because the Simpsons hadn't really done that up to this point. 1270 01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:45.280 I don't think we're just dragged and dragged and dragged. 1271 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:48.920 No, that it's funny. It's new, it's a new thing, 1272 01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:51.280 but it's where it's not new that Homer is an idiot. 1273 01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:53.960 That's not new. It's what new ways can we show 1274 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:54.360 his idea? 1275 01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:57.760 I must admit watching that scene, I was just before 1276 01:01:57.760 --> 01:01:59.280 the pencil went into the butt crack, I was like, 1277 01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:01.719 the stretch this out. I can feel it's not reaching 1278 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:05.119 breaking point, but I really got some stretch on it now, right, 1279 01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:07.199 And then yeah, there was that break and then it resumed. 1280 01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:08.159 So yeah, how. 1281 01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:10.639 Long How long should a joke go? It depends, like 1282 01:02:10.679 --> 01:02:13.199 you do. You make it, and then you see it 1283 01:02:13.239 --> 01:02:15.360 and then you edit it, and then you see it again, 1284 01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:17.119 and then you edit it and then you see it again. 1285 01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:20.599 And sometimes it works, and sometimes it's it's too long, 1286 01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.760 like when when Homer fell down the cliff in bark 1287 01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:29.519 the level. How long how long should he go? You know, 1288 01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:31.000 long enough long? 1289 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:33.320 And then go and then do it straight away again. Able. 1290 01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:36.840 My favorite jokes of all time is the if any 1291 01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:39.360 joke I've ever written in my whole life, it's that 1292 01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:42.599 whole sequence is my favorite thing I think I've ever written. 1293 01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:44.679 Yeah, just that the ambulance hit in the tree that's 1294 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:47.280 right in front of it. 1295 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:52.119 It's daisily stolen. It's buster keating jokes stolen. But you 1296 01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:54.280 know what steal from the grates. 1297 01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:56.840 That's right? Yeah. Well, this episode here last Sex's springfield 1298 01:02:56.840 --> 01:02:59.280 like dental plan Lese and these braces. It spawns so 1299 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:02.599 many icon now Simpson's memes, so many moments have turned 1300 01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:05.679 into memes. You've got where's my burrito an onion into 1301 01:03:05.719 --> 01:03:07.920 my belt. You know, the Big Book of British Smiles. 1302 01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:09.960 How does it feel for you when you say an 1303 01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:12.840 idea that you and Whally wrote thirty plus years ago 1304 01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:15.559 get a new lace on life through the main culture. 1305 01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:18.960 I mean, I'm an old man, so memes mean nothing 1306 01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:20.599 to me. What do I care about? Me? 1307 01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:22.159 Means everything to us? 1308 01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:24.840 Right, that's everything to you guys. But I like that 1309 01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:28.800 jokes are in the culture. Those jokes will fade away 1310 01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:33.239 from the culture. I've seen. I've seen people be very 1311 01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:36.280 famous and then very unfamous things that were in the 1312 01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:38.920 culture in the nineteen seventies when I was growing up. 1313 01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:42.800 Now people have no idea about vice versa. Things will 1314 01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:45.679 fade away. It's okay, it's fun that it's there. The 1315 01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:48.159 Big Book of British Smiles is wal you wat erski joke. 1316 01:03:48.199 --> 01:03:52.679 It's fantastic and I'm glad that it resonates because I 1317 01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:57.079 don't know that that. I wasn't sure that all of 1318 01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:59.599 the world knew how horrible British teeth. 1319 01:03:59.400 --> 01:03:59.800 Were, but. 1320 01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:03.280 That was that just sort of the stereotapt that it 1321 01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:06.519 was mentality in the states of British people have terrible teeth. 1322 01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:11.559 It's not just stereotype. It's true. At one time with 1323 01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:15.280 the advent of sugar, when sugar was brought into England 1324 01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:18.559 was colonizing everything they brought over sugar, and sugar started 1325 01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:22.719 destroying English people's teeth in a horrible way. I think 1326 01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:26.400 there was Terry Jones, one of the Python guys, talked 1327 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:31.920 about it that before sugar they dug up the remains 1328 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:34.360 of British people and their teeth were fine, and then 1329 01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:37.760 after the advent of sugar, sugar started destroying people's teeth 1330 01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:41.920 very quickly. So it's there was a period of time 1331 01:04:41.960 --> 01:04:46.400 when just devil care was not great and people, British 1332 01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:50.440 people's teeth were particularly awful. But I think that's true. 1333 01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:54.079 It feels like you walked so Austin Powers could run. 1334 01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:58.239 Exactly well Austin Powers. I mean, if you're a fan 1335 01:04:58.280 --> 01:05:00.960 of Elvis Costello, as I was, he did have great 1336 01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:03.400 teeth for a while, and then he had great teeth 1337 01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:05.280 after he got some money. So like, I don't know, 1338 01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:06.039 it happens. 1339 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:08.360 Speaking of Austin Powers, I just want to sidetrack for 1340 01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:10.679 a little bit. But script doctoring it seems like one 1341 01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:12.360 of the coolest jobs in the world. And you seem 1342 01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:15.280 to have got your fair share of credits or not 1343 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:18.599 credits in that regard, including the Austin Powers movies. I'm 1344 01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:21.119 just wondering how you got into it, how it works, 1345 01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:23.159 and maybe the punch up that you're most proud of. 1346 01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:26.360 Wow. I mean, I really enjoyed working on The Nightti 1347 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:28.320 Professor with Eddie Murphy because I got a chance to 1348 01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:30.199 work with him. That was really cool, and they were 1349 01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:32.639 filming it while we're writing it, and that was really fun. Really, 1350 01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:35.800 so that when you write a joke and they actually 1351 01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:38.159 film it, is that, Oh, that's fantastic. Because I've done 1352 01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:40.119 so many rewrites where you write a million jokes and 1353 01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.079 then nobody it never sees the light of day. It's 1354 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:47.800 just script pages that go nowhere. The Austin Powers movies, 1355 01:05:48.679 --> 01:05:52.400 I am. I can not take credit for Austin Powers. 1356 01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:56.599 Austin Powers is Mike Myers. He's a genius. He's fantastic 1357 01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.960 and if you whisper something to him and he like, 1358 01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.880 then you know, you feel like a hero. But it's 1359 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:07.199 all Mike Myers and Mike smeers brilliance and and but 1360 01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:10.760 I love working with him on on things and I 1361 01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:14.840 respect his genius immensely. I like working on the Shrek movies. 1362 01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:17.440 You big on You're big on building connections. Did did 1363 01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:19.239 you get the Shrek gig? Because he built that connection 1364 01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:20.119 through Austin Palace? 1365 01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:23.639 I got the Shrek gig because I'm I'm yeah, knew 1366 01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:28.559 Mike Myers. Yeah yeah, So like, yeah, I think some 1367 01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:31.719 of it's too you know, guys, I don't want to 1368 01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:35.519 say that it's not a meritocracy. It is a lot 1369 01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.480 of it is having a dad who's a writer. Didn't 1370 01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:42.119 hurt and uh get me. That got me the job 1371 01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:44.559 at Gary Shanling show. That got me the gig. So 1372 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.519 connections matter, uh, and then you know, it helps if 1373 01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:53.159 you can deliver once you get the opportunity. But you're 1374 01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:56.000 gonna get more opportunities more people, you know. So I 1375 01:06:56.039 --> 01:07:02.079 worked to developed relationships with people and sometimes they worked. 1376 01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:05.800 They they they turned into jobs. Uh, sometimes they didn't. 1377 01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:08.599 But that's all right. I like I like people in general, 1378 01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:09.679 so it's it's all good. 1379 01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:11.559 I mean, look at look at the guest list for 1380 01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:14.119 your podcast. She was on the biggest Names in entertainment. 1381 01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:15.320 It's it's incredible. 1382 01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:20.000 The biggest names in entertainment, name the biggest Robert de Niro. 1383 01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:20.880 I got him. 1384 01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:24.760 But that means a lot of a lot. 1385 01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:26.480 Of a lot of really good people come to my podcast. 1386 01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:30.440 You've got the mine's called the Jake Cogan Experience. What's 1387 01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:34.079 it's called? No, don't be alone with Jake Cogan? Yeah, no, 1388 01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:36.639 if Brian Cranston comes out. But guy, these are people 1389 01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:39.000 I work with. Mostly. There's a few people I didn't 1390 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:40.360 know came on the show that I love. 1391 01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:40.599 That. 1392 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:44.239 Tony Shaloub I had never met and I always wanted 1393 01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:45.679 to meet him. And I asked a friend or a friend, 1394 01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:47.519 will you ask Tony Shaloub to be on the show, 1395 01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:49.599 And they said yes, I loved it. 1396 01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:51.320 You had the pad of guys on them. Sorry, this 1397 01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:53.519 is probably gonna be cut out of the the interview, 1398 01:07:53.559 --> 01:07:55.599 but I mean, uh, you had Shane Black and Fred 1399 01:07:55.599 --> 01:07:56.960 Decker And I was like, oh my god. I was 1400 01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:59.719 actually speaking to uh to Dano about Fred Deckert the 1401 01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:01.400 other day and then all of a sudden his name 1402 01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:04.760 comes up on your podcast. Oh I'm putting this aside 1403 01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:06.119 to listen to you later on a loop. 1404 01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:08.559 We're big love for We're big love for Ricochet the film. 1405 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:11.639 They're great, But what I really like about them is 1406 01:08:11.679 --> 01:08:15.599 their friendship. So like that they they're true friends, and 1407 01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:18.279 they're movie friends, but they're real friends and they talk 1408 01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:20.239 to each other in a real way. And it's kind 1409 01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:22.640 of cool to come up with people who all dream 1410 01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:25.479 of being in the movie business and they all were 1411 01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:26.359 in the movie business. 1412 01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:29.520 It's a particular favorite moments of mine from this episode 1413 01:08:29.560 --> 01:08:33.279 Last Sex at Springfield, where like Grandpa's rambling story, so 1414 01:08:33.439 --> 01:08:36.279 that spawned the obvious time on into my belt. So 1415 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:38.680 when you're writting one of these scenes, how do you 1416 01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:41.800 know when enough is enough? When it comes to Grandpa's rambling? 1417 01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:44.920 You don't. You write it and then you edit it later, 1418 01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:47.439 but you just go you go along. I mean, there's 1419 01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:51.239 no the scripts. When we wrote a Stimpson script, we 1420 01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:54.720 would generally write a seventy page long script and then 1421 01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:58.920 the scripts would be cut down to a unreasonable forty pages. 1422 01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:02.680 So like it still and forty pages is still crazy 1423 01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:07.479 long for a show that size, but a lot of 1424 01:09:07.479 --> 01:09:10.199 its stage directions and visual jokes and all kinds of stuff. 1425 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:13.800 But uh, we wrote long. We wrote long. I still 1426 01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:15.399 to this day, I write long. 1427 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:17.800 It's probably just it's bet best to just wrote it 1428 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:19.399 out rather than just leaving and you want to write it, 1429 01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:21.159 and they want to keep it, they can keep it, and. 1430 01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:23.600 Then a lot of it's gonna be shitty, and so 1431 01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:26.239 you're gonna cut the shitty parts. I always when I 1432 01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:29.800 teach writings, you write stuff that is in your head. 1433 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:33.159 You go from this stuff that's good to this stuff 1434 01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:35.199 that's good, and all the stuff in the middle is shitty. 1435 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:38.920 Just put them together, you know, it's like you can 1436 01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:40.239 wrinkle in time. 1437 01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:42.000 Do you think this ramble would have been lot three 1438 01:09:42.039 --> 01:09:43.800 times as long then in the visual script? 1439 01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:47.399 Yeah, I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was. And 1440 01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:50.119 just like Homer's you know, dental plan Lisa in these 1441 01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:53.720 Braces was more was twice as long as it was 1442 01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:56.720 in the script as it was, and that you you 1443 01:09:56.880 --> 01:09:59.560 just you write, what do you write? And then a 1444 01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:02.000 wom full of really smart people go this is boring, 1445 01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:04.119 or I don't like this, or let's this is the 1446 01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:07.600 best part, or let's stuff you wrote. I have something 1447 01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:10.159 even better, let's put that in, and then you do 1448 01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:13.800 thank them very much, thank you, it's good, it's better. 1449 01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:15.479 I'm glad it has my name on it, even though 1450 01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:17.640 it's your joke. Thank you, And then you do the 1451 01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:20.520 same for their scripts. But but that's that's just how 1452 01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:20.880 it goes. 1453 01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:24.079 It seems like so many funny people have the perverse 1454 01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:26.119 urge to push a joke as far as it will go, 1455 01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:29.640 almost push it into the realms of being unfunny, to 1456 01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:32.359 see if they can do that circular loop of making 1457 01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:33.119 it funny again. 1458 01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:36.319 Yeah. I mean, that's a little bit of a comedy 1459 01:10:36.399 --> 01:10:38.560 high wire act that who doesn't like it? If you're 1460 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:40.960 if you're a pro, you're gonna want to You're gonna 1461 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:44.479 want to push the joke, I think, and be willing 1462 01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:47.479 to risk people scratching their head for a second before 1463 01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:50.319 they laugh. That everybody hasn't know what's going on the 1464 01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:54.359 whole time to ultimately get where you're going. It's good 1465 01:10:54.359 --> 01:10:56.239 maybe if there's confused up until the point. 1466 01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:59.680 I'm always reminded of uh, Norm McDonald at a roast for 1467 01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:02.279 someone one. Yeah, he was basically just doing bits out 1468 01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:04.439 of some how to do comedy from book from the 1469 01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:06.880 ninety fifties or whatever the way. It's anodyne jokes ever, 1470 01:11:07.279 --> 01:11:10.720 but delivering him in that inimitable Norm mcdng style, The 1471 01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:13.680 audience just like absolutely baffled. They got no idea what's 1472 01:11:13.720 --> 01:11:17.079 going on, and the comedians are just dying. They think 1473 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:18.920 it's the funniest thing they've ever heard in their life. 1474 01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:22.920 Yeah, I mean, listen, it's meta. It's a little bit meta, 1475 01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:25.439 and that's that's funny too. So like you, if you're 1476 01:11:25.479 --> 01:11:29.560 a student of comedy and somebody's doing playing with the form, 1477 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:32.479 you could appreciate that. You don't need to just like 1478 01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:34.560 you don't need to know all the references to Godfather too, 1479 01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:39.359 It's still okay to not know everything and learn it later. 1480 01:11:40.119 --> 01:11:41.680 I think you want to bring up the Aristocrats too. 1481 01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:44.840 On that note, I did, actually, yeah, I mean I've 1482 01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:47.640 recently tried to explain the concept that the Aristocrats to Dando, 1483 01:11:47.800 --> 01:11:49.760 but I may have messed it up. So as someone 1484 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:52.960 who was in the documentary the same name, what can 1485 01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:55.399 you explain it? And what is the notion of the 1486 01:11:55.399 --> 01:11:57.239 aristocrats joke? What does it mean to comedians? 1487 01:11:57.520 --> 01:11:59.640 That is the ariscrats is just a joke. It's a 1488 01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:04.319 dirty joke, really filthy joke that gives an opportunity for 1489 01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:08.119 a anybody who's telling it to do their own version 1490 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:12.039 of the joke. So basically, it's like jazz, you have 1491 01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:15.279 a template of something, but then you go off into 1492 01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:18.319 your own solos and your own so it's it's the 1493 01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:21.159 artistry of it is how you tell the joke and 1494 01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:23.159 what you put into it, and how you make it 1495 01:12:23.239 --> 01:12:27.079 your own, and how you make it specialized. And that's 1496 01:12:27.159 --> 01:12:29.439 the beauty of that joke. That joke is not a 1497 01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:32.640 great joke in and of itself. It's a it's a form. 1498 01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:35.239 It's a joke form that a lot of people know 1499 01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:38.359 that the best of the best can make brilliant just 1500 01:12:38.399 --> 01:12:39.520 by how they play it. 1501 01:12:39.680 --> 01:12:42.039 What's the best or the worst version of the Aristocrats 1502 01:12:42.039 --> 01:12:43.600 that you've heard or who told it? 1503 01:12:44.560 --> 01:12:47.560 Ah, the best or the worst version, I don't know. 1504 01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:50.600 The worst version is probably whatever I said. But the best, 1505 01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:58.039 I mean, Gilbert Godfried is pretty funny. Bob Saggot's pretty funny. 1506 01:12:58.119 --> 01:13:01.079 I mean, their version, everybody version of the joke, so 1507 01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:04.439 she's pretty intense. But the intensity the one the people 1508 01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:07.359 go crazy in it. I'm very interested in it because 1509 01:13:07.359 --> 01:13:10.720 it's not about the specifics of the joke and everybody 1510 01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:17.000 getting a joke. It's the weird strange act. So they're 1511 01:13:17.239 --> 01:13:20.680 they're describing a family that does a vaudeville act, a 1512 01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:27.119 nightclub act, and the act is both morally repellent, disgusting, 1513 01:13:27.239 --> 01:13:30.800 sexually deviant. Is everything that you could do in it 1514 01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:34.239 that's weird. So it's what are you willing to talk 1515 01:13:34.279 --> 01:13:37.800 about and say and describe? How gross are you willing 1516 01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:40.319 to get? How you know? Are you willing are you 1517 01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:42.920 willing to say the words exactly? Do you dance around 1518 01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:45.760 the words? Do you what do you do to make 1519 01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:49.399 your audience intrigued? So that's what it is. So, I mean, 1520 01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:52.880 every every comedian has their own version of it, and 1521 01:13:53.199 --> 01:13:55.279 it's the movie's worth seeing just for that. 1522 01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:57.560 It's a good documentary. It's like a comedy rorschock test 1523 01:13:57.560 --> 01:13:59.039 though the Aristocrats, isn't it? 1524 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:01.159 I guess so for some people. I find that most 1525 01:14:01.159 --> 01:14:03.640 people don't storm out in a huff and go, oh, 1526 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:06.560 what's that? They get pretty quickly they get it's not 1527 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:11.279 it's not the gross stuff. It's we're watching comedians, you know, 1528 01:14:11.399 --> 01:14:12.359 riff Is. 1529 01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:13.880 It one of those stories and one of those gags 1530 01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:15.359 where you start telling it with that and nets and 1531 01:14:15.359 --> 01:14:17.520 you're gonna start telling it and if you know, you know, 1532 01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:19.960 But if you don't know, you're like, what what the 1533 01:14:19.960 --> 01:14:20.840 fuck's going on here? 1534 01:14:21.279 --> 01:14:23.239 I suppose? I mean that's a lot of jokes to me. 1535 01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:27.119 I mean, that's not My favorite jokes are not direct 1536 01:14:27.119 --> 01:14:29.960 line jokes. My favorite joke, like my favorite joke. Uh, 1537 01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:33.159 I'm not great at jokes, but my favorite joke that 1538 01:14:33.159 --> 01:14:35.279 I ever tell is a guy goes out on his porch, 1539 01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:39.760 sees a snail on his door doorframe, and he takes 1540 01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:43.600 a snail and he throws it away and then goes 1541 01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:46.680 back inside. Cut to six years later, there's a knock 1542 01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:48.680 on the door. He opens the door, doesn't see anybody, 1543 01:14:48.720 --> 01:14:50.920 looks down there's the snail and says, what the fuck 1544 01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:55.079 was that about? So it's not nobody expecting the snail 1545 01:14:55.159 --> 01:14:58.399 to talk. The guy didn't have any attitude when he 1546 01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:01.039 threw the snail away, but it's like it's coming out 1547 01:15:01.079 --> 01:15:03.920 of nowhere. But of course now suddenly you're seeing the 1548 01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:05.840 snails point of view and. 1549 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:06.279 You're enjoying it. 1550 01:15:06.359 --> 01:15:11.039 So like, why that's kind of a surprise you're seeing 1551 01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:12.079 the snails point of view. 1552 01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:14.479 Well, another favorite mode of mine from Last Eggs it 1553 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:17.560 was that the Hired goons right Crusher and Blow. I 1554 01:15:17.600 --> 01:15:19.720 don't know why for some people everyone seems to love 1555 01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:22.479 the hired Goons. Was it a joke that you guys 1556 01:15:22.520 --> 01:15:24.479 wrote in there, or was that something was added later 1557 01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:26.000 on the hired Goons? 1558 01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:29.880 I don't know, I don't remember, I imagine I can. 1559 01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:36.720 We love the phrase hired goons is just like henchman. Yes, 1560 01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:41.079 also greed great phrase, no reason hired goons and henchmen. 1561 01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:44.439 But we love it. They're old fashioned, old timey fashion 1562 01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:45.319 things that we like. 1563 01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:46.920 Also think it's one of those gags where it's not 1564 01:15:46.920 --> 01:15:50.239 necessarily funny on paper, but it's the way Dan delivers 1565 01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:53.520 hired goons. Did you ever write jokes that you thought, 1566 01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:56.279 you know, we're writing because we know Dan c is 1567 01:15:56.319 --> 01:15:58.319 going to be saying this. We know he'll make this work. 1568 01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:01.159 I mean, no, just knew that they would make it 1569 01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:05.000 work anyway. But so we did that wasn't It wasn't like, oh, 1570 01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:07.479 well we have Dan Castlena or we have Harry Sheer. 1571 01:16:07.800 --> 01:16:10.000 It's just like, is this gonna be funny? And then 1572 01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:15.199 oftentimes those guys made it funnier. Yeah, So it's unlike, 1573 01:16:15.319 --> 01:16:17.640 it's not like this is dependent on this person's read 1574 01:16:17.760 --> 01:16:20.199 of this thing. It's sort of we're hearing a voice 1575 01:16:20.199 --> 01:16:22.760 in our head. They often come up with a funnier voice. 1576 01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:25.000 Having said that, talking about funny voices, I'd like to 1577 01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:29.800 ask about the Let's get him tells a character m 1578 01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:32.720 VP of this episode. One might say, uh, can you 1579 01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:35.479 tell us about the I guess the shout out that 1580 01:16:35.479 --> 01:16:38.000 that that that character is. Is it a tribute to 1581 01:16:38.239 --> 01:16:40.920 uh anarcomic tripes of years past? 1582 01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:43.640 Is it Droopy Dog Dog? 1583 01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:44.720 Dropy Dog is the voice? 1584 01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:50.319 Yeah, let's get it Phil, that's the one. 1585 01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:51.439 Yeah, it was him. 1586 01:16:51.640 --> 01:16:56.119 Yeah, that's Droopy Dog. But it's a Pana Bibarra character. 1587 01:16:56.439 --> 01:16:58.760 He's so memorable. But he says about eight words and 1588 01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:02.399 his entire existence. But you know every Simpsons fan and 1589 01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:03.760 I know that guy. 1590 01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:07.439 Yeah, I mean, uh no, I never did any voices 1591 01:17:07.439 --> 01:17:10.279 on the Simpsons, but I was. I'm a big fan 1592 01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:12.960 of all those guys. And when we did, when we 1593 01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:15.199 pitched in the room, we pitched the voices of the characters. 1594 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:18.199 We tried. We pitched like mister Burns, we pitched Homer, 1595 01:17:18.239 --> 01:17:22.119 and we pitched part We we modulated voices to to 1596 01:17:22.119 --> 01:17:24.399 to activate the characters as best we can to give it, 1597 01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:25.880 give the jokes their best. 1598 01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:27.439 Shot, which Rody did the best Burns. 1599 01:17:29.319 --> 01:17:31.439 Everybody had their own version of it. But I guess 1600 01:17:31.479 --> 01:17:33.880 Sam's I think Sam Simon had the best Burns. 1601 01:17:33.960 --> 01:17:36.199 Yeah, okay, And if we are talking about favorite moments 1602 01:17:36.199 --> 01:17:38.319 and we're gonna give a shout out to Quigly cross 1603 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:41.319 quickly sorry Quigly, I thought that was great. And also 1604 01:17:41.399 --> 01:17:44.119 the Rimple of Monkeys with the thousand time rid Us, 1605 01:17:44.199 --> 01:17:48.239 best of times, blurst of times, poor monkey getting slapped 1606 01:17:48.239 --> 01:17:51.319 across the head and just going primal as a result. Yeah, 1607 01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:53.479 that's a bit of a bit of a meme as well. 1608 01:17:53.720 --> 01:17:55.880 I don't believe that was our joke, but maybe it was, 1609 01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:57.640 I think, but it was a that's a great joke. 1610 01:17:57.960 --> 01:17:59.680 You watched this though, and yes, it's a great story 1611 01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:01.800 behind it. But it also does feel like there's a 1612 01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:04.880 bunch of gags that these guys could exist in really 1613 01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:07.600 any episode. They all work so well together here. 1614 01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:10.239 Well, I mean, we're in Burns's mansion. We're in like 1615 01:18:10.279 --> 01:18:13.199 we're in we're in his world. We get to do 1616 01:18:13.760 --> 01:18:17.279 funny things about that, and and uh, you know, lots 1617 01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:20.680 of episodes are in Burns's mansion, and certainly many many 1618 01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:23.479 more have been since we did that episode, So I 1619 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:28.760 don't know, it's it's filled with Simpson law Simpson jokes. Uh, 1620 01:18:29.119 --> 01:18:33.119 And again the audiences have voted that show as the best. 1621 01:18:33.159 --> 01:18:35.520 It's not my favorite show, but I think it's really funny. 1622 01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:37.000 I think it's great, and it's funny because I was 1623 01:18:37.039 --> 01:18:39.439 telling Guy before we started recording Forgive Me. When I 1624 01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:40.920 was a kid, this wasn't, by no means one of 1625 01:18:40.960 --> 01:18:43.239 my favorite episodes. The older I got, the more I appreciate. 1626 01:18:43.279 --> 01:18:44.960 But as a kid I was, this wasn't one that 1627 01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:45.960 I gravitated towards. 1628 01:18:46.119 --> 01:18:51.279 Yeah, me neither. I didn't dislike it, but I was. 1629 01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:52.720 It was one of those things we were just like, 1630 01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:56.079 you know, all right. I thought it got a little sentimental, 1631 01:18:56.199 --> 01:18:59.079 and I thought that the song it got bogged down 1632 01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:00.000 by the song a little bit. 1633 01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:02.399 Yeah, okay, for what reasons? You thought it sort of 1634 01:19:02.399 --> 01:19:03.680 took away from the comedy or. 1635 01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:06.520 Yeah, just gotta get gets little quiet and serious around 1636 01:19:06.520 --> 01:19:08.439 the song when she sings the song. 1637 01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:10.760 So it's a very unseerious episode up to that point, 1638 01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:11.520 isn't it. Yeah. 1639 01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:14.159 I wrote a Bob Dylan protest song for her to 1640 01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:16.520 sing and wound getting trimmed down to that. 1641 01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:19.560 Oh so you've still got the full song like you could? 1642 01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:20.640 You could play it for somebody. 1643 01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:23.479 I'm sure I could. I mean, I haven't haven't been 1644 01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:26.279 asked to in thirty years, but I'm taking fine, we're 1645 01:19:26.319 --> 01:19:26.880 asking you now. 1646 01:19:27.000 --> 01:19:29.239 So there is So there's a union Simpsons union song 1647 01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:31.760 out there incomplete? Is that what you're saying? 1648 01:19:32.119 --> 01:19:33.560 Yeah, in the style of Dylan. 1649 01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:34.920 Yeah, see, this is. 1650 01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:37.000 What we talked a lot, Josh Weinstein and whatnot. There's 1651 01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:38.920 got to be a Simpsons museum, this kind of stuff. 1652 01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:41.279 Simpsons fans want to say this ship do they? 1653 01:19:41.479 --> 01:19:41.720 They do. 1654 01:19:43.319 --> 01:19:45.479 I don't even know if you would never have said that. 1655 01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:47.560 I've got the full song. We cut it back to 1656 01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:50.159 like one verse, but you wrote a full song. People 1657 01:19:50.199 --> 01:19:50.800 want to hear that. 1658 01:19:52.039 --> 01:19:54.960 I guess. So, I mean it's it's you know, what's 1659 01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:57.039 better is what the what the show was. I think 1660 01:19:57.079 --> 01:19:59.399 what people really want to see is the show they like. 1661 01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:02.920 They're they're the anciliary stuff around the show, Like I don't. 1662 01:20:03.039 --> 01:20:05.880 I don't want to see the cars that weren't the 1663 01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:08.760 Aston Martin, the James Bond cars that the prototypes of 1664 01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:10.920 the cars that weren't as cool as the Aston Martin. 1665 01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:13.720 You know, I'm going with what we saw. 1666 01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:16.439 I disagree. I think I grew up in the era 1667 01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:19.079 where you know, you had your behind the scenes documentaries, 1668 01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:21.159 you had your audio commentaries. We want to know how 1669 01:20:21.199 --> 01:20:23.600 these things were made. We've seen the show, we love 1670 01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:25.159 the show, we'll watch it every day, but we want 1671 01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:26.560 to see how it came together. 1672 01:20:26.720 --> 01:20:30.680 But I'm assuring enough people read the version I ra said, 1673 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:31.560 this is not as good. 1674 01:20:33.880 --> 01:20:35.960 All right, But did you ever have jokes that you 1675 01:20:36.199 --> 01:20:38.479 feel easily could have made the show? 1676 01:20:38.560 --> 01:20:41.880 But it was just all the time, got jokes that 1677 01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:44.600 are that made the show, that that made this from 1678 01:20:44.640 --> 01:20:46.720 the script all the way to recording, all the way 1679 01:20:46.760 --> 01:20:50.199 in and still get cut out. But dah, you know 1680 01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:54.640 you want your jokes to stay. But you know, either 1681 01:20:54.880 --> 01:20:57.600 they get there, they get cut for time, or they 1682 01:20:57.640 --> 01:21:00.319 get cut because they're ruining the character, or they're not 1683 01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:03.600 part of they're not accurate for the story or what 1684 01:21:03.640 --> 01:21:06.239 we're trying to mat No, that's fine. You know, as 1685 01:21:06.279 --> 01:21:09.720 I got older, I was less precious with jokes and 1686 01:21:09.880 --> 01:21:12.399 more with what the whole story says. 1687 01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:15.439 Yeah, not the team thing. Well, there's a Rather than 1688 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:17.039 go through the entire episodes, a few key things I 1689 01:21:17.079 --> 01:21:19.039 wanted to point out. So this episode kicks off with 1690 01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:23.079 a clip from the McBain movie right with Mendoza unleashing 1691 01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:25.520 the swank, you know, ten times more pout, more addictive 1692 01:21:25.520 --> 01:21:28.159 than marijuana. Was that in your original script? 1693 01:21:28.680 --> 01:21:32.359 Yeah, I think we had we had a McBain show. 1694 01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:34.239 Did you guys, did you guys know the writers, Did 1695 01:21:34.239 --> 01:21:36.079 you guys know that you were putting together essentially a 1696 01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:38.680 McBain mini movie if you splice all those clips together, Like, 1697 01:21:38.800 --> 01:21:40.439 was there a case of what did what happened in 1698 01:21:40.520 --> 01:21:43.000 the last McBain scene? No, we had to carry over 1699 01:21:43.039 --> 01:21:44.319 from that or is it just you're just writing your. 1700 01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:46.920 Own No, they were just they were just parody movies 1701 01:21:47.239 --> 01:21:48.159 at the moment. 1702 01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:50.479 And it just conveniently worked out to be a mini movie. 1703 01:21:50.920 --> 01:21:52.920 I guess so. I mean, I imagine if you put 1704 01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:54.960 all the itching scratches together, you can make a mini 1705 01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:57.279 movie too, But maybe there would be a boring movie. 1706 01:21:57.279 --> 01:22:00.640 But it was like, I don't know, it's there. It's 1707 01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:03.399 it's a parody of a type of thing that's real, 1708 01:22:04.359 --> 01:22:08.199 and and uh, they they shouldn't. I don't think they're 1709 01:22:08.239 --> 01:22:11.760 they're purposely connected. But I'm glad it's able to do. 1710 01:22:11.680 --> 01:22:13.560 It because there's there's a home, there's a whole McBain 1711 01:22:13.760 --> 01:22:16.439 law out there now where, like even McBain and Mendoza 1712 01:22:16.520 --> 01:22:18.640 got their own line of action figures as a result recently. 1713 01:22:19.199 --> 01:22:23.760 Right, Well, McBain there was an actual move a detective 1714 01:22:23.800 --> 01:22:25.800 series called mc bain. There was like a movie. I 1715 01:22:25.920 --> 01:22:28.520 used to work in a bookstore and they would sell 1716 01:22:29.239 --> 01:22:33.479 McBain books. Uh so I think, uh we we owe 1717 01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:34.439 that author some money. 1718 01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:36.680 Yeah, the rotter at McBain absolutely, and there was a 1719 01:22:37.039 --> 01:22:40.039 crystopal walking action movie called McBain exactly. 1720 01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:44.079 So, I don't know it's it's it's really funny. I 1721 01:22:44.119 --> 01:22:48.000 guess McBean's like Donald Schwarzenegger. And you know, any anything 1722 01:22:48.079 --> 01:22:52.760 that's like a villain's like mcbern like and can have 1723 01:22:53.199 --> 01:22:57.640 a cliche, a detective movie cliche. That's a McBain story. 1724 01:22:57.760 --> 01:23:01.199 This this scene though, this one in particular, is really violent. 1725 01:23:01.439 --> 01:23:03.720 I mean people are getting shot in the face and 1726 01:23:03.720 --> 01:23:08.319 there's holes in their head. I watch this going how 1727 01:23:08.319 --> 01:23:11.439 did this happen? How did this get through the. 1728 01:23:10.720 --> 01:23:12.720 Hands of those movies? We watched those movies. 1729 01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:15.560 I know, I'm I'm talking from Fox. How did Fox 1730 01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:16.960 let this get through the television? 1731 01:23:17.199 --> 01:23:22.119 It's cartoon cartoon. 1732 01:23:22.279 --> 01:23:23.800 Some of the ship that I've heard that they wanted 1733 01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:26.199 to not let you guys do and then this happens. 1734 01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:28.039 Then a guy get shot in the head and drowns 1735 01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:29.880 in the in the punch bowl. Holy Mullen. 1736 01:23:29.960 --> 01:23:33.279 Violence was almost never the issue. It was usually sacks 1737 01:23:33.680 --> 01:23:38.039 or language. Maybe then they one time they told us 1738 01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:43.840 Homer can't say shove this license up your ass, but 1739 01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:46.000 they said you could, We could say shove this license 1740 01:23:46.039 --> 01:23:46.760 in your ass. 1741 01:23:47.079 --> 01:23:52.279 And we said, okay, wow, romantics. 1742 01:23:52.640 --> 01:23:54.720 Yeah, but then you had you had the James L. 1743 01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:57.199 Brooks low though, right where they really they could comment, 1744 01:23:57.239 --> 01:23:59.319 but they couldn't really stop you from doing stuff. Is 1745 01:23:59.359 --> 01:23:59.720 that right? 1746 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:03.640 That's the center can stop us. The sensor could stop us. Now. 1747 01:24:03.720 --> 01:24:05.600 That was the only notes we ever took with sensor 1748 01:24:05.680 --> 01:24:09.800 notes executive. We didn't get story notes from executives, but 1749 01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:12.159 the sensor was able to say, we don't do that. 1750 01:24:12.479 --> 01:24:15.760 Okay, yeah, all right. Anything else in particularly eats the 1751 01:24:15.800 --> 01:24:17.000 definitely some one that you want to sort of cover. 1752 01:24:18.199 --> 01:24:19.720 This is very immature of me, but I'm a big 1753 01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:22.760 fan of the double entendres in the conversation between Burns 1754 01:24:22.760 --> 01:24:26.199 and Smiths where I'm sorry, we're we're between Burns and Homer, 1755 01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:28.479 where Homer thinks that Burns is coming on to Hi'm sure, 1756 01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:31.079 I'm flattered. Maybe I'm a little curious, but the answer 1757 01:24:31.159 --> 01:24:35.119 is no. It's like, don't go in for these back 1758 01:24:35.159 --> 01:24:37.239 door snannigans. I'm sorry. I just thought that was hilarious. 1759 01:24:38.119 --> 01:24:41.680 Yeah, I do too. I think they're really funny. I'm 1760 01:24:42.039 --> 01:24:45.560 that is again another opportunity to make a funny joke 1761 01:24:45.800 --> 01:24:49.720 out of what's a normal you know, negotiation or interaction, 1762 01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:53.319 and uh, how fun is that. 1763 01:24:53.560 --> 01:24:58.439 Absolutely, there's so many different degrees of humor throughout this episode, though. 1764 01:24:58.479 --> 01:25:02.319 I mean, there's stuff that's kind of I won't say 1765 01:25:03.079 --> 01:25:05.439 low brown, but I mean this stuff that is. But 1766 01:25:05.479 --> 01:25:08.279 there's a lot of the stuff that's you know, nastly cynical, 1767 01:25:08.359 --> 01:25:12.119 like and gets made the union delegates like, well, there's 1768 01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:17.000 no jobs unpaid unless you have crooked woo. That's boblous. 1769 01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:20.199 Again, I'm laughing at it. They're not my jokes. There's 1770 01:25:20.239 --> 01:25:24.039 so many jokes. This show is filled with really funny 1771 01:25:24.079 --> 01:25:28.720 things brought by so many different people, like, for example, 1772 01:25:28.760 --> 01:25:31.800 the word onion around the belt, which was the fashion 1773 01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:34.359 at the time. I don't think that's our joke. Who 1774 01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:37.560 knows who Maybe George Meyer's joke. I have no idea, 1775 01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:41.399 but it's really good and great. So we're we're the 1776 01:25:41.439 --> 01:25:45.800 Wally and I are the beneficiaries of the genius minds 1777 01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:48.439 of a lot of really funny people who worked on 1778 01:25:48.439 --> 01:25:51.279 the show, and at that point was I guess Conan 1779 01:25:51.399 --> 01:25:54.880 was there by then, and so it's Conan and David 1780 01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.399 Stern and there's lots of other really funny writers who 1781 01:25:57.399 --> 01:25:58.359 are working there at the time. 1782 01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:00.680 You're great friends of kind of being on your podcast 1783 01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:03.000 Bright episode one of my favorites. What was he like 1784 01:26:03.079 --> 01:26:04.359 to work with? For you? Personally? 1785 01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:07.840 I loved working with Conan. I was the loud, annoying 1786 01:26:07.880 --> 01:26:11.079 guy at the Simpsons room until Conan showed up, and 1787 01:26:11.119 --> 01:26:14.359 then he was the loud, annoying guy. So yeah, I 1788 01:26:14.439 --> 01:26:18.960 was usurped by him and grateful that there's somebody even 1789 01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:24.439 louder and more annoying than me. But he's an adorable guy, 1790 01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:29.199 endless energy, super smart, super creative, and you can see 1791 01:26:29.239 --> 01:26:31.199 how hard he works when you watch his shows or 1792 01:26:31.279 --> 01:26:34.359 the Oscars or whatever. You know, he puts in maximum 1793 01:26:34.359 --> 01:26:38.560 effort and it shows. It's not they doesn't hit all 1794 01:26:38.560 --> 01:26:42.119 home runs, but you can see that he's really really trying. 1795 01:26:42.520 --> 01:26:45.079 Was there ever a competitiveness in the Simpsons Wroders room. 1796 01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:47.880 There's always a competitiveness in every writer's room because you 1797 01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:50.319 want your joke to get in because you pitched it, 1798 01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:52.920 not necessarily that guy's joke to get in, or that 1799 01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:55.560 woman's joke to get in, if they ever led a 1800 01:26:55.600 --> 01:26:59.720 woman in. But but you know, it's like you want 1801 01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:03.479 yours to work because you want validation that your value 1802 01:27:03.520 --> 01:27:07.000 and creative. But you also want the show to be funny. 1803 01:27:07.199 --> 01:27:09.359 And so if somebody pitches something that's so much funny 1804 01:27:09.399 --> 01:27:11.279 that we just pitched, you cannot help but just go 1805 01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:14.159 laugh and go like that, that's great, that has to 1806 01:27:14.239 --> 01:27:14.439 go in. 1807 01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:15.319 Uh. 1808 01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:17.520 But I've worked in writers' rooms where people try to 1809 01:27:17.520 --> 01:27:21.279 sabotage each other, and people try to shit on people's 1810 01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:24.079 jokes and and make sure that they don't get in 1811 01:27:24.159 --> 01:27:28.319 and that kind of stuff, And that's it's so antithetical 1812 01:27:28.399 --> 01:27:30.239 to the process that we're trying to do make the 1813 01:27:30.279 --> 01:27:34.880 best show possible. And and there are jealousies, and there 1814 01:27:34.920 --> 01:27:38.119 are favorites on every writer's room and every and the 1815 01:27:38.119 --> 01:27:41.920 favorites can change from time to time, So whoever's running 1816 01:27:41.960 --> 01:27:45.359 the room suddenly likes this person. You know, it's it's 1817 01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:49.600 it's hard to argue. Sometimes George Meyer was the well 1818 01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:54.720 respected I think lampoon guy, Harvard lampoon guy, that Mike 1819 01:27:54.800 --> 01:27:57.399 and Al and all v D and all these guys 1820 01:27:57.399 --> 01:28:00.199 looked up to George when we showed up. That was 1821 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:04.960 already the dynamic with them. I didn't know George all 1822 01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:06.399 that well, so I didn't look up to him. I 1823 01:28:06.439 --> 01:28:09.359 didn't go to Harvard, I didn't have that Harvard lampoon 1824 01:28:09.439 --> 01:28:11.840 stuff going on, So to me, he was just another shmo. 1825 01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:15.000 But what he would say things people would look on 1826 01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:18.039 him as with reverence that I did not understand. So 1827 01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:22.399 it's like, okay, but you know, not everything George said 1828 01:28:22.439 --> 01:28:25.119 was hysterical, but a lot of his stuff would get 1829 01:28:25.119 --> 01:28:28.520 in because he was the perceived favorite. Now that being said, 1830 01:28:28.680 --> 01:28:30.880 George is hysterical and a lot of what he says 1831 01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:33.399 is really really good. But I think it's it's interesting 1832 01:28:33.439 --> 01:28:38.359 how the social dynamic can lift some some material, sometimes 1833 01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:40.239 over over what it really is. 1834 01:28:40.720 --> 01:28:44.720 Accepting that another RATA on the same team has a 1835 01:28:44.760 --> 01:28:47.640 funnier joke or has made georgejoke funnier. Being able to 1836 01:28:47.680 --> 01:28:49.760 accept that, is that something you have to learn or 1837 01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:51.560 is that just part of who you are is it? 1838 01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:53.319 Can you learn? Can you learn to accept that? 1839 01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:56.319 I mean, yeah, you have to. I mean you have to. 1840 01:28:56.359 --> 01:28:58.680 If you're the showrunner, you're begging for that. That's all 1841 01:28:58.720 --> 01:29:01.680 you want is people to give top the other one. 1842 01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:04.479 That's a funny joke. That's the funnier. That's funny. That's 1843 01:29:04.479 --> 01:29:06.520 that's all you want. You want people to add and 1844 01:29:07.159 --> 01:29:10.760 uh you build and add funding to it. So yes, 1845 01:29:11.079 --> 01:29:13.680 if you're a writer and you're gonna be storm out 1846 01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:16.560 of the room somebody else makes a funny joke, you're 1847 01:29:16.600 --> 01:29:19.760 not gonna be very welcome there for very long. So 1848 01:29:20.079 --> 01:29:22.479 you should learn, and you should appreciate it, and you 1849 01:29:22.520 --> 01:29:26.399 should be grateful that person who wrote the funny joke 1850 01:29:26.640 --> 01:29:29.680 that's going in the script is getting you home. You 1851 01:29:29.720 --> 01:29:32.760 want to go home eventually, and that person is getting 1852 01:29:32.760 --> 01:29:36.760 you home. So fantastic. I get to go home. I 1853 01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:39.920 get to go you know, watch T watch TV at home. 1854 01:29:40.640 --> 01:29:42.399 On the topic of George Mayer, there's a moment in 1855 01:29:42.439 --> 01:29:45.520 this episode where they steal the diamond from Lenny's teeth 1856 01:29:45.560 --> 01:29:48.840 and they say yoink. Now, apparently George Maya is the 1857 01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:52.640 man who coined that phrase yoink, and no one seems 1858 01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:55.239 to realize that that's a Simpson's word. Is that true? 1859 01:29:55.640 --> 01:29:59.479 Was it, George? I mean, isn't this scooby Doo word? 1860 01:30:00.079 --> 01:30:04.479 No, Apparently yoink was coined. That's that's the ship. That's 1861 01:30:04.520 --> 01:30:07.119 that's the ship they called bullshit. Prevailing wisdom is that 1862 01:30:07.119 --> 01:30:13.039 it's a Simpsons word. Yeah, you're everywhere online joints. I say, 1863 01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:14.439 zoinks zoints. 1864 01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:19.319 Okay, zoints. So zoinks and yoink don't get uh credit 1865 01:30:19.359 --> 01:30:19.800 for each. 1866 01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:22.079 Other because zoinks is sort of more like zoinks. I'm 1867 01:30:22.119 --> 01:30:24.560 scared where yoink is to take something. 1868 01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:30.800 Okay, I think you guys are nuts. It's it's just 1869 01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:35.319 a animal animal on a pia goofy word. It doesn't 1870 01:30:35.319 --> 01:30:38.000 mean anything, and it's fun and I'm glad that it 1871 01:30:38.800 --> 01:30:42.439 started on my on that episode fantastic. Great, but it's 1872 01:30:42.680 --> 01:30:46.560 people look too closely sometimes at things and then and 1873 01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:49.760 and they missed the forest for the trees. Yuick is 1874 01:30:49.760 --> 01:30:52.920 a funny noise. Great, It doesn't mean much more than that. 1875 01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:56.319 It's it's the same kind of thing where they Simpsons 1876 01:30:56.319 --> 01:30:59.960 predicts the future like that, that kind of crazy bullshit. 1877 01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:02.479 It is sort of like is missing the point is 1878 01:31:02.720 --> 01:31:06.720 no Simpsons does not create predict the future. What happens 1879 01:31:06.800 --> 01:31:09.960 is Simpsons has a lot of really funny jokes all 1880 01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:12.600 over the place, and some of them weirdly come true. 1881 01:31:13.039 --> 01:31:15.640 How aired is that? That's that's more amazing to me 1882 01:31:16.039 --> 01:31:19.960 that if you did a million jokes and of the 1883 01:31:20.039 --> 01:31:24.319 million jokes, forty of them came true. That's insane to me. 1884 01:31:25.079 --> 01:31:28.039 That's crazy that the dumbest things you thought of at 1885 01:31:28.039 --> 01:31:30.000 that time is actually what happens. 1886 01:31:30.279 --> 01:31:32.479 That's what Salmon said. Salmon goes, we think of what's 1887 01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:34.560 the craziest shit that could happen, and we'll be on 1888 01:31:34.600 --> 01:31:36.800 tava long enough that have Unfortunately, some of it's not 1889 01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:37.520 starting to come. 1890 01:31:37.359 --> 01:31:40.640 True, right, And that's the perversity of fate. Fate chooses 1891 01:31:41.119 --> 01:31:45.479 to extol the dumbest of our ideas and make it 1892 01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:46.199 into reality. 1893 01:31:46.279 --> 01:31:48.720 Let's talk about Dr Wolf real quickly. Clint Eastwood and 1894 01:31:48.760 --> 01:31:52.439 Anthony Hopkins initially approached Anthony Perkins actually cost. 1895 01:31:52.840 --> 01:31:55.720 Yeah, I think I've also, oddly enough, I think we 1896 01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:59.479 wanted Donald Schwartzenegger really, oh my gosh, because we had 1897 01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:03.560 a German vibe to Doctor Wolf. But yeah, I mean 1898 01:32:03.560 --> 01:32:05.479 a lot of people say no to the Simpsons all, 1899 01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:07.479 at least back then said no to the Simpsons all 1900 01:32:07.479 --> 01:32:09.039 the time, and probably now do too. 1901 01:32:09.119 --> 01:32:11.680 But did I really even at that point when it 1902 01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:14.640 was still so successful, they were turning it down. I 1903 01:32:14.680 --> 01:32:18.840 know that Springsteen turned down the Well episode, but right already? 1904 01:32:18.920 --> 01:32:22.439 But yeah, you know that story, right, I probably do, 1905 01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:24.279 but please rate tell me all right. 1906 01:32:24.359 --> 01:32:26.920 I think we were trying to get to hold of 1907 01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:31.279 Bruce Springsteen to do the Well bid and sing the 1908 01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:33.520 song Kid down the Well. And we can't get a 1909 01:32:33.520 --> 01:32:37.119 hold of Springsteen, so we keep calling his manager, John Landau, 1910 01:32:37.479 --> 01:32:40.840 who we now have seen famed in film Delivered Me 1911 01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:43.800 from Nowhere. So we get a hold of him. He says, 1912 01:32:43.960 --> 01:32:48.760 I can't get a hold of Bruce, like bullshit, all right, No, 1913 01:32:49.399 --> 01:32:50.680 I think he'd like to do it. It's like you 1914 01:32:50.680 --> 01:32:52.960 can tell us no, we have to move on, But no, no, 1915 01:32:53.000 --> 01:32:54.840 I think he'd like to do It's well then, to 1916 01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:58.039 find him and let us know because we have to 1917 01:32:58.039 --> 01:33:00.920 move on. We're good recording this soon and okay, I'll 1918 01:33:00.960 --> 01:33:03.000 do it. I'll do it anyway. That night, I go 1919 01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:05.319 to the movies at a movie theater in Los Angeles 1920 01:33:05.359 --> 01:33:08.520 said no longer exists, and guess who's at that movie theater. 1921 01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:12.159 Bruce Springsteen and Patti Sciavola. They're at that movie theater 1922 01:33:12.520 --> 01:33:15.039 and I see Bruce Springsteen across the hall, who we've 1923 01:33:15.159 --> 01:33:17.560 been trying to reach for weeks. We can't reach him, 1924 01:33:17.600 --> 01:33:23.119 and I go Bruce Springsteen joints and I uh, and 1925 01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:25.600 I make a bee line for Bruce. And I'm wearing 1926 01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:29.800 a Simpson's jacket. The Simpsons producer Jack you get it. 1927 01:33:29.920 --> 01:33:32.520 There was a leather jacket, red, the red and black 1928 01:33:32.640 --> 01:33:35.239 jacket that you got, producers. So I'm running up to him, 1929 01:33:35.560 --> 01:33:37.800 to Bruce Springsteen, and then he sings. This fat guy 1930 01:33:37.960 --> 01:33:42.319 running towards him and he's like, eyes mean, and he 1931 01:33:42.359 --> 01:33:45.319 steps in front of Patty because he's a fucking hero, right, 1932 01:33:45.359 --> 01:33:46.960 He does the one anything Heard. 1933 01:33:47.119 --> 01:33:48.960 And then Clarence Clement stands in front of him. 1934 01:33:49.560 --> 01:33:51.600 Well no, I stands in front and says, hey, man, 1935 01:33:51.640 --> 01:33:56.000 it's like Bruce h I'm uh mister Springsteen, miss Springsteen. 1936 01:33:56.039 --> 01:33:58.640 I'm so glad I caught you. My name is Jake Cogan, 1937 01:33:58.680 --> 01:34:01.239 I'm a producer of the Simpsons. And I point to 1938 01:34:01.279 --> 01:34:06.359 my jacket as if that's truly anything. We're selling T 1939 01:34:06.479 --> 01:34:10.920 shirts on the freeway in storage and venice No one 1940 01:34:11.720 --> 01:34:14.119 only a jacket means nothing. That the amount of merchandise 1941 01:34:14.159 --> 01:34:16.439 come to the Simpsons is into the billions of dollars. 1942 01:34:16.720 --> 01:34:18.560 So I said, we've been trying to get a hold 1943 01:34:18.600 --> 01:34:22.119 of you. We can only reach your manager John about 1944 01:34:22.159 --> 01:34:23.800 this thing that we're doing on the show. It's like 1945 01:34:24.520 --> 01:34:26.600 doing a song for a girl in a well. It's 1946 01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:29.159 really funny. And I was like, I just have to 1947 01:34:29.159 --> 01:34:31.239 know if you would be interested, and he said, yeah, man, 1948 01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:34.279 I really like to do it. I was like, he 1949 01:34:34.359 --> 01:34:36.760 wanted to get the crazy fat guy away from him, 1950 01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:38.920 so he said yeah, and he said no, and and 1951 01:34:38.960 --> 01:34:42.239 then we never heard back from him or John Lenno ever, 1952 01:34:42.279 --> 01:34:43.800 and then we just gave up and went to spring 1953 01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:46.079 But I scared the shit out of Bruce Springsteen. I 1954 01:34:46.159 --> 01:34:49.239 literally made Bruce Springsteen think he was going to have 1955 01:34:49.319 --> 01:34:52.960 his sort of scary John Lennon moment. And you know, 1956 01:34:53.199 --> 01:34:56.159 thankfully I don't carry a weapon, so that's good. But 1957 01:34:56.199 --> 01:34:58.960 it's like, it's it's I'm I scared the boss. 1958 01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:03.159 You'll lock on when Homer approaches the Oscaran truck when 1959 01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:04.600 he's fat and he's got the moonmo and he's at 1960 01:35:04.600 --> 01:35:05.920 the gossips and just take it all. I just take 1961 01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:07.000 it all exactly. 1962 01:35:08.119 --> 01:35:10.039 He just wanted to get me to get away. And 1963 01:35:10.079 --> 01:35:12.560 I don't blame him. I don't blame in the least, 1964 01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:16.159 but it was I just didn't not I'm so unaware 1965 01:35:16.239 --> 01:35:19.439 of myself, and how would I would that I could 1966 01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:21.920 be scary? The thought that I could be scary to 1967 01:35:21.960 --> 01:35:23.159 anybody is shocking to me. 1968 01:35:23.319 --> 01:35:24.000 What movie was it? 1969 01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:29.199 By the way, God who cares? Movie theater doesn't exist. 1970 01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:31.640 It was in a It's in Los Angeles. There was 1971 01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:35.239 a place called the Century City entertained ABC Entertainment Center, 1972 01:35:35.479 --> 01:35:37.560 and there was movie theaters and a Schubert Theater in there. 1973 01:35:37.640 --> 01:35:40.279 It's all been knocked down. It doesn't exist anymore. So 1974 01:35:40.439 --> 01:35:42.279 I can't imagine. I don't know what movie. 1975 01:35:42.279 --> 01:35:44.720 Honestly, I'm picturing you Moore as Lenny, sort of a 1976 01:35:44.800 --> 01:35:47.039 drunken Lenny, approaching the limousine and just giving the thumbs 1977 01:35:47.079 --> 01:35:47.600 up to mister b. 1978 01:35:49.079 --> 01:35:53.159 No. I was just like sweating, like I was acting 1979 01:35:53.199 --> 01:35:55.760 like a producer, like I wanted him. I wanted the 1980 01:35:55.760 --> 01:35:57.399 Springsteen to do it, and I was so excited. 1981 01:35:57.479 --> 01:35:59.000 Let's be honest, though, I sting turned out to be 1982 01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:01.319 a fantastic choice in the for that episode. He worked 1983 01:36:01.319 --> 01:36:01.880 out perfectly. 1984 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:04.880 I'm not shitting on mister Sting. I mean it's fantastic. 1985 01:36:04.920 --> 01:36:08.039 He was great. He's fantastic, and he was great, and 1986 01:36:08.039 --> 01:36:10.199 who's perfect for it and all the great And I 1987 01:36:10.199 --> 01:36:13.159 bet I assume Springsteen has been on the show since then, So. 1988 01:36:13.199 --> 01:36:14.119 No, he still hasn't. 1989 01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:16.119 No, I'm not. 1990 01:36:16.079 --> 01:36:17.840 I don't want to work with don't be alone with 1991 01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:19.399 that guy. So he's like, and I don't, I don't 1992 01:36:19.399 --> 01:36:20.199 want to work with that guy. 1993 01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:23.680 Okay, well then he doesn't have to be anymore. I'm 1994 01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:26.279 not there, but he does have to be on my podcast. 1995 01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:28.279 So that's all right, I'll get I'll get Springsteen for 1996 01:36:28.319 --> 01:36:28.800 the podcast. 1997 01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:31.079 But you did have one guest on this episode who 1998 01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:35.000 mocked herself Joyce Brothers. Oh smart line and in and 1999 01:36:35.039 --> 01:36:37.640 out real quick. Yeah, it wouldn't even really called a 2000 01:36:37.640 --> 01:36:40.520 guest appear. This just a cameo of anything, right, I. 2001 01:36:40.439 --> 01:36:43.560 Think we didn't write it for a guest. And and 2002 01:36:43.239 --> 01:36:45.680 and I think she called and said, hey, would I could, 2003 01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:47.359 is there ever a spot for me on the show? 2004 01:36:47.399 --> 01:36:50.079 And sure, yeah, I mean she she was very nice, 2005 01:36:50.119 --> 01:36:52.960 and I mean she was very good also very famously 2006 01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:55.399 good at marketing herself and constantly trying to be re 2007 01:36:55.560 --> 01:36:57.920 up her cred and I guess getting on The Simpsons 2008 01:36:57.960 --> 01:36:59.800 maybe helped your credit a little bit. I'm not sure. 2009 01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:02.159 Maybe she's just a fan of the show. Anyway, she 2010 01:37:02.239 --> 01:37:04.600 was great, very gracious. People are willing to make fun 2011 01:37:04.640 --> 01:37:08.800 of themselves, are fantastic. Tony Bennett fantastic. I mean Tom Jones, 2012 01:37:08.840 --> 01:37:11.760 we did. We had so many great people who. 2013 01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:12.840 Were all of the celebrities that came in and just 2014 01:37:12.880 --> 01:37:15.079 blew you away because you just weren't expecting him to 2015 01:37:15.079 --> 01:37:16.520 be so open and lovely. 2016 01:37:17.039 --> 01:37:20.760 Well Tony Bennett, I remember being just I was so 2017 01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:22.800 thrilled to hear him sing the Capital City song on 2018 01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:25.960 that was so and he was so great. You know, 2019 01:37:26.079 --> 01:37:30.199 Joe Montagne was fantastic. It came back many many times. 2020 01:37:30.560 --> 01:37:33.039 So you would you have worked with Kelsey before Frasier then? 2021 01:37:33.399 --> 01:37:36.960 Yeah, I worked with him because on the I created 2022 01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:38.800 the character of side show Bob. 2023 01:37:38.840 --> 01:37:40.079 Yeah, crusty gets busted. 2024 01:37:40.159 --> 01:37:42.039 Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, and so but also we 2025 01:37:42.239 --> 01:37:44.359 worked it was a guest on the Tracy Ollman Show 2026 01:37:44.640 --> 01:37:45.439 even before. 2027 01:37:45.199 --> 01:37:46.840 Then, so I actually didn't know that. 2028 01:37:47.359 --> 01:37:49.840 Yeah, So it was my job to roust him out 2029 01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:52.840 of his trailer because he was so drunk and high 2030 01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:55.079 or whatever he was that I had to sort of 2031 01:37:55.119 --> 01:37:58.960 like shake him away and say it's time for a rehearsal. Uh. 2032 01:37:59.039 --> 01:38:01.600 You know, he cleaned up his years later. But what's 2033 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:05.680 remarkable was as stoned as he was and whatever he 2034 01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:08.319 was taking when he went on stage, he was fantastic. 2035 01:38:08.479 --> 01:38:11.960 Immediately great, snapped to it, did a scene perfect, line perfect, 2036 01:38:11.960 --> 01:38:13.479 and then went back to his trailer and fell asleep. 2037 01:38:13.479 --> 01:38:14.439 The ultimate professional. 2038 01:38:14.479 --> 01:38:14.760 Wow. 2039 01:38:14.880 --> 01:38:17.359 Yeah, so before we let you go though, So this 2040 01:38:17.439 --> 01:38:20.800 is obviously a mister Burns episode. I love the animation 2041 01:38:20.840 --> 01:38:22.640 of Burns at the end when he listened to them singing, 2042 01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:24.000 he looks like the Grinch? And whatnot? 2043 01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:24.520 Right? 2044 01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:26.560 What was it? What was Burns's one of your favorite 2045 01:38:26.600 --> 01:38:29.800 characters to write? Is such an enjoyable character to watch? 2046 01:38:29.960 --> 01:38:30.880 Was he an enjoyable character? 2047 01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:31.039 Right? 2048 01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:33.680 WHILEY and I get credit for creating mister Burns, we 2049 01:38:34.039 --> 01:38:35.720 created mister Burns and Smithers. 2050 01:38:36.119 --> 01:38:37.840 Really, I'm as honesty of course. 2051 01:38:37.920 --> 01:38:40.239 Yeah, he's very nice script for it. So I have 2052 01:38:40.279 --> 01:38:44.039 a special love for him. When what we wrote wasn't 2053 01:38:44.119 --> 01:38:49.439 what tears. He was developed by everybody and by artists 2054 01:38:49.479 --> 01:38:53.720 and by everything to become the excellent guy that he was. 2055 01:38:53.760 --> 01:38:56.000 But our first version was just evil boss, but he 2056 01:38:56.119 --> 01:38:59.720 became very evil and very funny. I love mister Burns 2057 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:02.720 and I loved the relationship with Smithers, you know, and 2058 01:39:02.840 --> 01:39:06.880 we when we developed Smithers, we definitely wanted Smithers to 2059 01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:11.319 love mister Burns in all the ways that he loves 2060 01:39:11.359 --> 01:39:12.079 mister Burns. 2061 01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:14.760 I need you to settle this for so, Yes, playing 2062 01:39:14.800 --> 01:39:17.600 at home, did you write Smith's to Bean African American? 2063 01:39:18.079 --> 01:39:20.640 Yes? Really he was black and gay? 2064 01:39:20.720 --> 01:39:23.279 Yes, okay, then, but there we go, finally settled because 2065 01:39:23.279 --> 01:39:25.079 the people always go, oh, it was an animation era, 2066 01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:26.479 but no, he was, you know, he. 2067 01:39:26.479 --> 01:39:29.560 Was black and gay. And they decided, we we all 2068 01:39:29.560 --> 01:39:33.520 decided Jim Brooks and whoever was he couldn't be both. 2069 01:39:34.319 --> 01:39:37.840 Why why make the one black character gay? Also because 2070 01:39:37.840 --> 01:39:42.039 I can't choose choose the same thing with doctor Hibbert. 2071 01:39:42.359 --> 01:39:46.520 Doctor Hibbert was a woman was Julia Hibbert, And they 2072 01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:51.279 said why a woman an a black so diverse too much? 2073 01:39:51.600 --> 01:39:55.199 And so I was named it after Julia Sweeney, the actress, 2074 01:39:55.239 --> 01:39:58.319 the comedic actress, and her married name was Julia Hibbert, 2075 01:39:58.600 --> 01:39:59.920 and I named the character after. 2076 01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:02.399 That's where doctor Hibb comes from. There you go, we 2077 01:40:02.479 --> 01:40:03.600 learned something every day. 2078 01:40:03.640 --> 01:40:06.720 And Julius Hebert and then when we went up against 2079 01:40:06.720 --> 01:40:09.840 Bill Carsby, it was perfect foil to make fun of 2080 01:40:09.840 --> 01:40:10.479 Bill Carsby. 2081 01:40:10.800 --> 01:40:13.680 Yeah, there we go. Well, and you also created Kanye 2082 01:40:13.720 --> 01:40:15.920 and Cotis. You guys essentially are the reason we got 2083 01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:18.439 Treos of Horror because I know Matt pitched the idea 2084 01:40:18.520 --> 01:40:20.880 kids tell Us to Ghost Stories in the Treehouse, but 2085 01:40:20.920 --> 01:40:24.920 you guys sort of went, that's a great concept. We 2086 01:40:25.039 --> 01:40:25.960 can run with this. 2087 01:40:26.199 --> 01:40:28.479 We supported the idea in a place when a lot 2088 01:40:28.520 --> 01:40:30.399 of people didn't want to support it, but we supported 2089 01:40:30.439 --> 01:40:32.960 it and we liked it. And yes, man Greening gets 2090 01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:36.079 credit for that thing. We get credit for saying that's 2091 01:40:36.119 --> 01:40:37.399 a good idea. 2092 01:40:37.520 --> 01:40:40.920 But the thing is, though, that's arguably the episode that 2093 01:40:41.079 --> 01:40:43.600 everyone really still looks forward to this day. It's the 2094 01:40:43.640 --> 01:40:46.239 Halloween episodes. Say what you will at the Simpsons. You know, 2095 01:40:46.319 --> 01:40:48.079 I still enjoy the Simpsons, My kids like watching the 2096 01:40:48.119 --> 01:40:49.800 new episodes and put it on from Disney Plus has 2097 01:40:49.800 --> 01:40:52.159 been a great thing for discovering the new episodes again, 2098 01:40:52.199 --> 01:40:55.079 particularly for the younger audiences. But you know, even if 2099 01:40:55.079 --> 01:40:57.680 someone doesn't necessarily watch the Simpsons anymore, they'll still keep 2100 01:40:57.800 --> 01:40:59.880 up with the Halloween ones that's been the mainstay. 2101 01:41:00.119 --> 01:41:02.600 Think they're fun. I think it's so much fun. It's 2102 01:41:02.640 --> 01:41:06.640 also you know, they're standalone. They're fantastic. Usually it's a 2103 01:41:06.640 --> 01:41:08.960 parody of something that's cool that's happening at the moment. 2104 01:41:10.279 --> 01:41:12.039 You know, it's I agree, they're a lot of fun, 2105 01:41:12.159 --> 01:41:14.199 and they're fun to write. They're really fun to write 2106 01:41:14.239 --> 01:41:17.119 because they're a little ten minute cartoons. You know, it's 2107 01:41:17.199 --> 01:41:21.680 it's uh, yeah, everybody wins, we all want we loved it, 2108 01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:23.880 they love it. It's all good. They've been a few 2109 01:41:23.880 --> 01:41:25.720 shitty ones, but mostly they're pretty good. 2110 01:41:25.800 --> 01:41:28.880 Yeah, sometimes the parodies aren't great. But when you're doing 2111 01:41:28.880 --> 01:41:32.800 those first Treas of Horror episodes, things like the Raven, 2112 01:41:33.239 --> 01:41:35.359 did you think the kids would have any idea what's 2113 01:41:35.399 --> 01:41:37.000 going on there? Or did you just not care? 2114 01:41:37.319 --> 01:41:39.119 No? And I think that's one of the bad ones. 2115 01:41:39.199 --> 01:41:43.039 Like I honestly no, I don't think it's any good 2116 01:41:43.079 --> 01:41:46.439 at all. Sam. The only reason we did Trias of Horror, 2117 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:48.800 the reason the reason we got Sam Simon to agree 2118 01:41:49.479 --> 01:41:51.279 is that we told him you could do the Raven. 2119 01:41:51.399 --> 01:41:54.560 They went oh. He hated the idea up until he 2120 01:41:54.560 --> 01:41:56.840 heard we could do the Raven. And then he did 2121 01:41:57.039 --> 01:42:00.359 his version of The Raven, which is fine. It's Edgar 2122 01:42:00.479 --> 01:42:03.880 and Poe, it's it's educating. I feel like it's more educational. 2123 01:42:03.920 --> 01:42:06.119 I feel like it's something that that and then and 2124 01:42:06.159 --> 01:42:08.920 that bums me out because I don't need education in 2125 01:42:09.000 --> 01:42:13.960 my Simpsons cartoons. But we had James old Jones fantastic 2126 01:42:14.039 --> 01:42:16.479 reading it, and uh I got to meet him and 2127 01:42:16.520 --> 01:42:18.960 that was fun when we we did it before he 2128 01:42:19.039 --> 01:42:21.920 did his his The Raven, you know, giant plate of 2129 01:42:21.960 --> 01:42:25.880 chocolate chip cookies. It's like, what are you doing? Don't 2130 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:27.520 you have to have a clear throat to do? What 2131 01:42:27.600 --> 01:42:31.159 do you do? Is no, And he was chomping down 2132 01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:32.800 and chopped the two cookies, and then he started doing 2133 01:42:32.840 --> 01:42:33.520 the Raven. 2134 01:42:33.520 --> 01:42:35.600 Just passing a box of chips. A hoy, what. 2135 01:42:37.039 --> 01:42:42.279 What's going on? But uh, I think to me, the 2136 01:42:42.279 --> 01:42:47.039 the the tanging codos, you know, to feed Man parody. 2137 01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:49.800 I think it's not just because we wrote it. I 2138 01:42:49.840 --> 01:42:52.439 just think it's much funnier and it's that's better. And 2139 01:42:52.479 --> 01:42:54.880 I and and there's Frankenstein one that's good. That is 2140 01:42:55.039 --> 01:42:58.640 one of the Amityville Horror in that same episode. That's better. 2141 01:42:58.720 --> 01:43:01.760 I just think they're better. But you know what, Sam 2142 01:43:02.199 --> 01:43:05.199 Simon loved him. He wanted to educate the world and 2143 01:43:05.279 --> 01:43:07.840 he did. And it has jokes in it. It does 2144 01:43:07.880 --> 01:43:10.199 have jokes in it, It's just not immediately as funny 2145 01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:10.840 as the other ones. 2146 01:43:10.880 --> 01:43:12.479 Sometimes, like you said, you got to please the boss 2147 01:43:12.479 --> 01:43:13.760 to get what you get to do what you want 2148 01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:14.239 to do as well. 2149 01:43:14.359 --> 01:43:16.159 Yes, you always have to please the boss. 2150 01:43:16.239 --> 01:43:17.199 Yes, some guests. 2151 01:43:17.520 --> 01:43:19.279 All right, finally, before we let you go, he's you 2152 01:43:19.319 --> 01:43:20.079 want to ask more question? 2153 01:43:20.199 --> 01:43:20.920 One more? All right? 2154 01:43:22.039 --> 01:43:23.800 I'm taking the internet's word for this, which is a 2155 01:43:23.800 --> 01:43:26.880 fool's errand. But apparently you were voted most likely to 2156 01:43:26.960 --> 01:43:29.640 drop his pants on a dare in high school. It's 2157 01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:31.920 raises the question, how are you responsible for the will 2158 01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:34.399 drop pants for food? Gag? And Krussy got canceled. 2159 01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:38.199 I don't remember being most likely to drop my pants 2160 01:43:38.399 --> 01:43:41.479 in high school. I don't think that's true, although had 2161 01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:43.319 somebody asked me to drop my pants, I would have 2162 01:43:43.560 --> 01:43:46.640 for a dare or for for the comedy value of it. 2163 01:43:46.720 --> 01:43:47.960 I used to do anything for a joke. 2164 01:43:48.279 --> 01:43:49.680 Is that tiring after a while? 2165 01:43:50.319 --> 01:43:52.560 Yes, there's a lot of energy. You've got to use 2166 01:43:52.600 --> 01:43:55.079 a lot of energy being always on, being always on. 2167 01:43:55.159 --> 01:43:58.520 But also I like it, and as I said, my 2168 01:43:58.600 --> 01:44:00.640 dysfunction with my father made me want to really be 2169 01:44:00.680 --> 01:44:05.039 funny all the time. So it's okay. But no, I 2170 01:44:05.039 --> 01:44:07.760 don't think my ability or willingness to drop my pants 2171 01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:10.640 has anything to do with that joke of the show. Okay, 2172 01:44:11.239 --> 01:44:12.239 I think that's just funny. 2173 01:44:12.439 --> 01:44:15.680 The final question we always ask people, and I said, 2174 01:44:15.680 --> 01:44:17.119 you said, you don't prepared anything, but you can do 2175 01:44:17.159 --> 01:44:19.039 it because you are J Cogan. But the question is, 2176 01:44:19.119 --> 01:44:21.680 it's nineteen ninety eight. Fox have asked you to put 2177 01:44:21.680 --> 01:44:25.760 together a five episode Friday Night Simpsons marathon. Which episodees 2178 01:44:25.760 --> 01:44:27.279 are you going with? And what are you starting with? 2179 01:44:27.319 --> 01:44:28.359 In particular, I'm. 2180 01:44:28.199 --> 01:44:32.199 Gonna start with the seventh episode, which was the Christmas episode, 2181 01:44:32.199 --> 01:44:35.039 which became our pilot. I'm gonna start with that because 2182 01:44:35.119 --> 01:44:37.239 it was so successful right out of the gate, people 2183 01:44:37.359 --> 01:44:42.600 loved it, fantastic. I'm gonna follow that up with Like Father, 2184 01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:45.960 Like Clown because and I'm gonna follow that up with 2185 01:44:46.000 --> 01:44:48.119 Barth the Daredevil, and I'm gonna follow that up with 2186 01:44:48.159 --> 01:44:50.720 Old Money, and I'm gonna follow that up with last 2187 01:44:50.720 --> 01:44:52.960 exit to Springfield. And the reason why I pick all 2188 01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:55.920 those other ones is because I get residuals, and so 2189 01:44:56.119 --> 01:45:00.319 I want the money. Baby, They're all cod I want 2190 01:45:00.319 --> 01:45:03.199 to ask you written not the best ones, but the 2191 01:45:03.199 --> 01:45:04.119 ones I get paid for. 2192 01:45:04.479 --> 01:45:07.960 So okay, the residual still exist with the Simpsons, you guys. 2193 01:45:08.279 --> 01:45:12.319 Yes, we get money. We get money from the show 2194 01:45:12.399 --> 01:45:15.159 is sold all over the world. It's also we get 2195 01:45:15.600 --> 01:45:17.560 a fraction of a fraction of a penny when they 2196 01:45:17.600 --> 01:45:19.640 played on Disney Plus, so we get some money. 2197 01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:22.039 So do you just have like a three laptops going 2198 01:45:22.079 --> 01:45:25.720 constantly on your episode. 2199 01:45:24.960 --> 01:45:28.239 Kids Got to Eat Man Charlie Cogan. Charlie Cogan, who 2200 01:45:28.319 --> 01:45:35.119 is a uh is a very funny musician, not funny talented, talented, 2201 01:45:35.439 --> 01:45:39.479 talented musician, singer, songwriter. Charlie Cogan. He is a genius. 2202 01:45:39.560 --> 01:45:42.319 But you know, I need I need to make some 2203 01:45:42.439 --> 01:45:45.399 residuals to get more band members for him. And oh 2204 01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:47.359 this is his sad this is music stage. 2205 01:45:47.319 --> 01:45:49.000 Here before when you were talking about was that a 2206 01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:49.640 band set up? 2207 01:45:50.560 --> 01:45:53.680 That's yeah, this is my son's music recording studio and 2208 01:45:53.760 --> 01:45:57.399 so h Charlie Cogan kog and listen to his music. 2209 01:45:57.680 --> 01:45:59.000 Tell me if you like it, tell me if you 2210 01:45:59.039 --> 01:46:01.279 don't like it. I want to hear because we're he's 2211 01:46:01.279 --> 01:46:03.359 making about to make a new record, so I want 2212 01:46:03.359 --> 01:46:04.960 to hear what people think about his music so he 2213 01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:06.840 can adjust to the audience. 2214 01:46:06.840 --> 01:46:08.960 We'll chuck the links in the description. We'll chut the 2215 01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:11.239 links in the description of this podcast. But speaking of podcasts, 2216 01:46:11.239 --> 01:46:12.920 plug yours one mole time before we let you guys 2217 01:46:12.920 --> 01:46:15.079 there there it is. 2218 01:46:15.079 --> 01:46:18.760 Don't okay Cogan, that's my podcast. I usually have a 2219 01:46:18.800 --> 01:46:21.880 guest on and we talk about my problems and we 2220 01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:25.039 can we can really get into solving my problems and 2221 01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:29.359 learn about our guests. And often it's a comedian, it's 2222 01:46:29.399 --> 01:46:32.600 a writer, it's an actor, it's an artist of some kind. 2223 01:46:33.079 --> 01:46:35.960 Sometimes it's a grief specialist, but not always. It's always 2224 01:46:36.000 --> 01:46:39.039 somebody who's interesting to me and hopefully interesting to you. 2225 01:46:39.079 --> 01:46:42.079 But listen to don't be along with Ja Cogan. But 2226 01:46:42.119 --> 01:46:44.760 more than listen to it, subscribe to itsri You never 2227 01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:47.520 listen to it, just subscribe to it. Don't you the 2228 01:46:47.520 --> 01:46:49.920 same thing on your show? Right? You need subscribe, like 2229 01:46:49.960 --> 01:46:54.000 and subscribe, You not like and subscribe, but subscribe, Just subscribe. 2230 01:46:54.000 --> 01:46:56.720 What does it cost? You nothing, just subscribe. 2231 01:46:56.720 --> 01:46:58.680 The thing is and he's had Matt Groening on the show, 2232 01:46:58.760 --> 01:47:02.000 a man who you know very rarely does podcast episodes. 2233 01:47:02.039 --> 01:47:03.399 But you know it's only done too as far as 2234 01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:05.800 I know, Mark Maron and me, that's. 2235 01:47:05.680 --> 01:47:08.079 It because he gave us the Springsteain treatment. So you 2236 01:47:08.079 --> 01:47:09.439 know he said, I love to be young. Yeah. 2237 01:47:09.479 --> 01:47:11.439 Yeah, he doesn't do it. He doesn't do it much. 2238 01:47:11.439 --> 01:47:14.119 I just contacted him on Saint Patrick's Day. I uh, 2239 01:47:14.680 --> 01:47:17.119 I called him to wish him a happy birthday, even 2240 01:47:17.119 --> 01:47:19.800 though his birthday is Valentine's Day, but always Saint Patrick's 2241 01:47:19.840 --> 01:47:23.079 Day reminds me that. 2242 01:47:22.760 --> 01:47:24.680 I'll think you're getting Jay. It's been an absolutely hona. 2243 01:47:24.760 --> 01:47:27.039 I really enjoyed it. Guys, and you're not you know 2244 01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:29.760 you ossies. Aren't the dicks everybody say you are? You 2245 01:47:29.840 --> 01:47:34.520 know what? You're sweet, nice, lovely people with a good heart. 2246 01:47:35.359 --> 01:47:36.880 I like it. I want to go. I want to 2247 01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:39.760 go to Australia. And where if I go to Australia, 2248 01:47:39.800 --> 01:47:40.439 where should I go? 2249 01:47:41.159 --> 01:47:41.600 It depends? 2250 01:47:41.640 --> 01:47:42.600 Why are you coming? 2251 01:47:42.600 --> 01:47:45.319 He's coming for touristy shet. Are you coming to enjoy Australia? 2252 01:47:45.439 --> 01:47:48.000 I want to absorb the culture. I want to sort 2253 01:47:48.039 --> 01:47:50.520 of figure out what's cool about the place. I want 2254 01:47:50.560 --> 01:47:52.239 to be able to come back and say I want 2255 01:47:52.239 --> 01:47:53.119 to go back there again. 2256 01:47:53.359 --> 01:47:55.960 I recommend a little town called Jeloon. That's where I'm from, 2257 01:47:56.000 --> 01:47:58.760 so Bally. For culture, i'd go to Melbourne, which is 2258 01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:01.000 a capital city. You just want to do the touristy 2259 01:48:01.039 --> 01:48:03.640 stuff like the opera house and the bridge and what 2260 01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:05.840 everyone thinks is that's Sydney. 2261 01:48:06.159 --> 01:48:08.079 I will fly over that stuff, I'll see it, but 2262 01:48:08.119 --> 01:48:10.560 I want to know what, like the great food is, 2263 01:48:10.640 --> 01:48:13.039 or the great music or the things that make it special. 2264 01:48:13.119 --> 01:48:16.439 That's Melbourne. But if you want a unique astrayant experience, 2265 01:48:16.479 --> 01:48:19.159 maybe head up north, go far north Queensland and the 2266 01:48:19.199 --> 01:48:20.159 Northern Territory. 2267 01:48:19.840 --> 01:48:22.199 To get your beaches and your outbacks and your whatnot. 2268 01:48:22.319 --> 01:48:24.880 Oh yes, all right, and the animals that will kill you. 2269 01:48:24.960 --> 01:48:25.840 Yeah, I'm afraid of that. 2270 01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:28.640 Plenty of those, We are lots of them. You get 2271 01:48:28.720 --> 01:48:30.640 used to them, yeah, yeah, just be nice to them. 2272 01:48:30.680 --> 01:48:31.439 They'll be nice back. 2273 01:48:31.640 --> 01:48:33.880 Best way to protect yourself from a kangaroo. 2274 01:48:34.439 --> 01:48:36.359 Well, don't try and act tougher than it, because they 2275 01:48:36.399 --> 01:48:37.520 are always tougher than you. 2276 01:48:38.119 --> 01:48:40.880 Right, the kangaroo will it will out out for you. 2277 01:48:41.079 --> 01:48:43.119 The pouture of a kangaroo is disgusting. 2278 01:48:42.720 --> 01:48:46.520 Right, yeah, very very mucusy, Yeah, reportedly, so I go. 2279 01:48:47.800 --> 01:48:49.520 And funny, I learned that from the Simpsons. 2280 01:48:51.960 --> 01:48:54.199 I just learned get recently too, so I know maybe 2281 01:48:54.199 --> 01:48:56.399 from the Simpsons, but just how discussed because you think 2282 01:48:56.439 --> 01:48:57.920 it's so cute in there but it turns out no, 2283 01:48:58.039 --> 01:48:58.640 it's disgusting. 2284 01:48:58.760 --> 01:49:02.680 It's where babies live and that ship. Yeah no, good, 2285 01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:04.880 Thank you again, Jock, Thanks a lot. 2286 01:49:05.680 --> 01:49:07.720 This isn't a pleasure. I really enjoyed this. I hope 2287 01:49:07.720 --> 01:49:09.399 you edited so that don't seem like moron