WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:32.520 Welcome to mid Rats with Sal from Commander Salamander and 2 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:36.079 one from Eagle Speak at Seer Shore your home for 3 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:39.320 a discussion of national security issues and all things maritime. 4 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.479 And welcome on board everybody. This is Sal along with 5 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:48.000 my co host Eborginial Eagle One. We appreciate you join 6 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:51.520 us for another edition of mid Rats today, and if 7 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:53.960 you are with us live, we would like to invite 8 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.759 you to go ahead and roll into the chat room. 9 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.000 That's a great place where if you would like to 10 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:03.840 share a comment or perhaps have a questions we need 11 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:06.959 to direct to our guests. That is the perfect place 12 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:10.840 to do it. And if you do not already subscribe 13 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:13.640 to the mid Rats podcast because your schedule's a little 14 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:15.400 off and maybe you'll miss this or something, just go 15 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:18.840 ahead and go over to iTunes, Spreaker, Spotify, wherever you 16 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.879 usually get your podcast, and subscribe that way, we'll be 17 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.120 there waiting for you. And now let's just go ahead 18 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.400 and roll on in today's show, what we're going to 19 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.760 look at is, as everybody knows, unless you're in I 20 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.480 think it's California and Arizona, maybe a couple of other 21 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.359 states are still counting votes for some reason everybody. The 22 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:38.719 election is behind us. So we know that former President 23 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.840 Trump will be President Trump again, the forty seventh president 24 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:45.359 of the United States, and he's already starting to put 25 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:49.159 together his national security team. And whenever you have a 26 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.519 new commander in chief coming along, he's going to pick 27 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.040 new people, the better aligned with his philosophy and his 28 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.280 business and there'll be some opportunity and some pratfalls. Well, 29 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.239 that's what we're going to talk about today with our guest, 30 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.079 Jerry Dunlavy. He's the author of Kabul, which we had 31 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.080 him on before, and he's the former investigative journalist for 32 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:12.639 the Washington Exammer and former senior investigator for the House 33 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.439 Foreign Affairs Committee. And it's just a couple of weeks 34 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:20.039 after the election. So for those out in the provinces, 35 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.080 how are things in the Imperial City? 36 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:22.560 Yeah? 37 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.879 So you know what I can say is I was 38 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:31.759 here in twenty sixteen for President Trump's surprise win and 39 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:38.599 an inauguration, and it was shocked, was the was the 40 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:42.840 general was the general feeling at the time for most 41 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:47.120 of professional DC shock and horror, And this time around 42 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.639 it really is much more subdued so far, and I 43 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:54.000 think that they really are behind the scenes trying to 44 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:59.719 figure out what their resistance two point zero is going 45 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:03.719 to is going to look like. Obviously, in this first term, 46 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:08.879 President Trump faced an inordinate amount of what we would 47 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:16.080 call lawfair. The Trump Russia collusion hope, I would say, 48 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:20.439 largely dominated the first half of his presidency in his 49 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.319 first term. What do they have in store this time around, 50 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:27.840 I don't know yet. But what I do know from 51 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:30.879 the sort of the issues that I've been working on 52 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:37.800 very intently the last number of years, is I hope 53 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.800 that the incoming Trump administration is ready for what they're 54 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.400 going to face. Because when it comes to just the 55 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:53.240 narrow issue of accountability for the tobacco in Afghanistan, Pentagon 56 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:58.479 brass and top officials and generals have managed to escape 57 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:02.879 any and all accountability. That's because the Biden Harris administration 58 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.680 didn't want them accountable for anything. But it's also because 59 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.800 there was some complicity from the people in Congress who 60 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:15.280 are supposed to be overseeing at the military. You know, 61 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:17.959 I worked on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Republican led 62 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.000 House Foreign Affairs Committee, and the chairman, I'm chairman McCall 63 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:28.399 by design wet the military brass off the hook for 64 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:33.600 their mistakes. It's my sense that President Trump, on this 65 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.480 issue and on many, many, many issues, is looking for 66 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.920 accountability and is frankly looking for some scalps. And the 67 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:45.639 pushback is going to be tremendous from the entrenched bureaucracies, 68 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.839 like the entrench bureaucracy at the Pentagon, and also from 69 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:53.879 the media. It is going to be an intense battle 70 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:57.040 every step of the way. And so I just I 71 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.759 hope that they're prepared for that because they're going to need, uh, 72 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:04.000 they're going to need to be ready for what's facing them. 73 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.360 Yeah, it's a It's an interesting situation because he spent 74 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.600 a lot of time during the campaign talking about the 75 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.360 gold Star families, talking to the gold Star families. There 76 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.079 was a whole uproar about him going to the to 77 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:24.040 the Arlington Cemetery and with them. So, you know, how 78 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.160 how how how deep do you think his commitment is 79 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:29.959 to keeping some of those promises that he was making 80 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:31.839 to people like the gold Star families and to other 81 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:35.639 people who were very concerned about the ability of senior officials, 82 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:40.639 both the military and otherwise, to to sidestep I was 83 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.319 being held accountable for the abilities they either messed up 84 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:47.199 or didn't get at all. Yeah. 85 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.680 Well, look, I really hope that the commitment that he's 86 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.079 made on this is gonna is going to get followed 87 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.519 through on. I do have the sense that he is 88 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:01.199 genuine in his desire to get answers for the gold 89 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:06.120 Star families and genuine in his frustration with the military 90 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:11.519 dodging any and all responsibility for the debacle in Afghanistan 91 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.639 in twenty twenty one. I mean, look, there's twenty years 92 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:18.199 of mistakes, twenty years of horrible mistakes, with that war 93 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:22.800 culminating in a defeat after a two decade war. I 94 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:26.720 traced the proximal cause for why the Taliban took over 95 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.000 Afghanistan in August of twenty twenty one to President Biden's 96 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:36.079 unilateral withdrawal announcement in April of twenty twenty one, because 97 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:39.639 that withdrawal announcement meant not just the pulling of US troops, 98 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.240 but if US troops were leaving, that meantal native troops 99 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.519 were leaving. It also meant the pulling of US logistics, 100 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:50.240 US support, US ISR, everything that we had built the 101 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:55.319 Afghan military round. So that was the proximate cause in 102 00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:00.199 twenty twenty one. However, it wasn't just President Biden made 103 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.000 big mistakes in twenty twenty one. The State Department made 104 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.160 every mistake that they possibly could. The White House National 105 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:12.959 Security Council did a terrible job, but the military brass 106 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.839 and the intelligence community also failed in twenty twenty one, 107 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.439 and they have managed to escape. 108 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:21.639 The hot steat. 109 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:30.079 And so I do hope that the that the incoming 110 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:34.240 Trump administration, the incoming Secretary of Defense, whoever it might be, 111 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:38.600 denominee is Pete Hegseth, who I think is unconventional but 112 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:43.399 would actually h has do an excellent job. I think 113 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:47.040 he has the right mindset, excellent job with this. When 114 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.040 it comes to accountability, the Pentagon Brass needs to be 115 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.959 held for the state mistakes that they made. When it 116 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:57.439 comes to the Abbeygaid attack in particular, there are still 117 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:03.480 questions that that remain that have not been pursued related 118 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:09.079 to that attack, and the military sentcome in particular has 119 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:12.959 done everything that it could to shield itself from any 120 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:19.040 real inquiry into what happened and into whether that attack 121 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:22.240 could have been preventable. And so I I, you know, 122 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.959 I have a lot of hope that the incoming Trump 123 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.040 administration is able to use the awesome powers that they 124 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:32.159 will have to pry those answers out of of the 125 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:35.480 deep recesses of the d O D and to obtain 126 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.519 some some accountability for everyone that fought in that war 127 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:42.320 and for everyone that that lost someone in that war. 128 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.960 Yeah, it's I was trying to send me a yeah, 129 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:53.480 raise of it. As much trouble with that as it 130 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.720 has on talking. I mean, there are a lot of 131 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.480 there are a lot of these issues that go on, 132 00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:59.480 and you've talked about the law fair that was engaged 133 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.320 gets President Trump early on as an administration, which and 134 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.919 even before when when they were I guess it was 135 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:15.240 last that the last election, the the Intel officials who 136 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.559 signed off saying that they thought that the Hunter Biden 137 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:22.120 laptop was a was a Russian thing, which you have 138 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.480 been totally disproven. And then but they they've suffered no 139 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:30.639 consequences as far as I know, for for making such 140 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.759 a an interesting claim. 141 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:38.000 Absolutely, And the thing to keep in mind about this, 142 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.600 this Hunter Biden laptop or this October surprise in the 143 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:46.440 twenty twenty election that I do think played a role 144 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:52.240 in tamping down on the reporting surrounding the Hunter Biden 145 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:57.679 laptop and gave everyone's sort of something to point to, 146 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:03.679 to handwave and dismiss this Hunter Biden laptop in the 147 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.360 final days of the campaign to try and get Joe 148 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.519 Biden over the finish line, and it was successful. And 149 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:14.279 you know, what we have learned and what we now 150 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:20.480 know is that this Hunter Biden laptop letter that was 151 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:24.519 signed by these fifty one former intelligence officials, including four 152 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.759 or five former heads of the Central Intelligence Agency, is 153 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.480 that this letter was written with the express purpose of 154 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:37.559 giving Joe Biden a talking point in his debate with 155 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.559 President Trump. And so this was a by design a 156 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:47.639 political document. And Mike Morrell, former acting CIA director, who 157 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:49.960 was the main author of this letter and the main 158 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.120 recruiter of this letter, recruiting the signatories for the letter, 159 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.679 he says that it was actually conversation with Anthony Blink, 160 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.360 who was then on Biden's campaign but obviously went on 161 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:04.559 to be a fairly disastrous Secretary of State. But it 162 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:08.399 was it was the Morel's conversation with Blincoln that prompted 163 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:10.159 him to write this letter in the first place. And 164 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:14.960 so this was a This was former intelligence officials who 165 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.399 had the highest clearances and that held the highest levers 166 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:23.360 of power in our intelligence community, signing on to a 167 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:28.080 political document with the purposes of influencing a presidential election, 168 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:30.960 and with the purposes of influencing a presidential election, by 169 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.679 the way, with claims that had no basis, that the 170 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:40.399 claims that the Hunter Biden laptop was somehow a Russian 171 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:45.759 information operation, that the Russians were behind it, never had 172 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.960 any basis, and yet you know, they leaned on their 173 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:53.120 credentials to claim it anyway. That is a great example 174 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:58.039 of the politicization of intelligence that we have seen. And 175 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:02.080 you can see that not just with that, not just 176 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:05.000 with the Hunter Biden laptop letter, but you could see 177 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:12.120 that with the efforts to push this Trump Russia collusion saga. 178 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:15.279 I would call it the Trump Russia collusion hoax. The 179 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:21.519 deployment of Christopher Steele's dossier, which was funded by the 180 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:24.360 Clinton campaign and the DNC, but then was used by 181 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.759 the FBI not just to dean Fiz awards and surveillance, 182 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.320 but was also used and placed in an annex to 183 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:38.440 the Intelligence Community assessment on Russian election influence in the 184 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:44.960 twenty sixteen election. And then Christopher Steele and his main 185 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:51.200 sub source. They were given credibility to allow the FBI 186 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:56.320 to continue an investigation for years, which then transformed into 187 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.120 the Muller investigation and on and on, an investigation that 188 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.600 never really had a proper predicate or proper basis to 189 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:08.360 begin with. And so the politicization of the intelligence community 190 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.840 is a huge problem. We've seen it in dramatic ways 191 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:14.759 the past years, and so that is going to be 192 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:19.399 a big focus of the incoming Trump administration as well. 193 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.720 And there will be a lot of pushback by the 194 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.799 media and from inside of the bureaucracy of the intelligence community. 195 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:32.840 But look, the intelligence community has earned scrutiny that it's 196 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:37.440 going to get because look, I am someone that believes 197 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:42.600 in the importance of our spy agencies. We have serious 198 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:46.000 adversaries that we're facing, and we need spy agencies that 199 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.559 are not just effective, but that also have the trust 200 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.720 of the American people. And they've lost that trust and 201 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:59.200 it's not going to be regained without real scrutiny and 202 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:01.320 real reform. 203 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.960 Well what Sal's asking this, but what what is the 204 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.399 expectation that the accountability will be more than just talk. 205 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.679 I mean, we've got some resistance within the Republican legislators, 206 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.600 UH to a president froms agenda and you know, is 207 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:23.679 there a path for that that accountability for the intelligence people, 208 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:27.200 the military and Afghanistan and the the other fun things 209 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.080 that have happened. What's that? What's that going to look like? 210 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.480 Who's going to lead it? Uh? And what would be 211 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:36.960 the what kind of impact won't have? I mean, as 212 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.879 you say, there's you know, I'm always thinking of resistant 213 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:42.879 circuits with electricity out of theres a lot of resistance 214 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:44.000 in the in the circuits. 215 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.720 Absolutely. I mean, look, there is absolutely an opportunity here 216 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:55.200 to get accountability, to get accountability for intelligence officials who 217 00:14:55.480 --> 00:15:01.279 abuse their power, to get accountability for million terry officials 218 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:08.360 and intelligence officials who failed in Afghanistan in twenty twenty one. 219 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.639 The opportunity is there. I do think that the desire 220 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:17.279 for accountability from the incoming Trump administration is there. But 221 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.320 they are going to face a lot of resistance. It's 222 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.759 going to be what the media is going to raise 223 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:28.200 hell about this, and the entrench bureaucracies are going to 224 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:32.960 raise hell as well. And so it's going to take commitment. 225 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.799 It's going to take real commitment to get it done. 226 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:39.120 I mean what does accountability look like. I can say 227 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.200 with the start of accountability looks like on some of this. Obviously, 228 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.679 when it comes to Hunter Biden laptop letter, I think 229 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:50.639 that pulling the security clearances of the fifty one former 230 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.559 intelligence officials who signed on to this letter as a 231 00:15:53.600 --> 00:16:01.480 no brainer. They deployed their credentials for the sole purposes 232 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:07.320 of impacting a presidential election, inserting themselves into a presidential 233 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:14.759 race with baseless claims. They didn't just change an election potentially, 234 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.399 But what I think that you know, another thing that 235 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.960 that's overlooked here is they did a stream damage to 236 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:27.080 the credibility of the intelligence community, and they did damage 237 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:31.960 the American people's ability to trust that intelligence officials are 238 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.960 going to be a political just the facts, rather than 239 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:42.480 inserting themselves into, you know, juring themselves into presidential races 240 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.840 with political agendas. And so I think pulling their clearances 241 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.000 is a no brainer. And that's that's that's an easy start. 242 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.519 When it comes to Afghanistan, as I mentioned, there's a 243 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:54.639 lot of accountability to go around for what happened in 244 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:58.399 twenty twenty one. The State Department failed, the NSC failed, 245 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.119 but the military and the IC failed too. And I've 246 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.319 spent a lot of time over the past few years 247 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.039 really focusing in on the military piece of this. And 248 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:16.839 it is just a fact that a Chairman Millie presented incorrect, 249 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.400 wildly incorrect information about the facts on the ground in 250 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.039 twenty twenty one in Afghanistan, and he claimed that the 251 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.759 Afghan military was five thousand to three hundred and fifty 252 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:34.079 thousand strong, which was never true, a wild inflation of 253 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:38.759 the size of the Afghan military, because look, the Afghan 254 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:43.559 military had well known ghost soldier problems. It was never 255 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.519 at three hundred and twenty five thousand or three hundred 256 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.480 and fifty thousand, It was never at three hundred thousand. 257 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:51.039 It was always smaller than that. But it was especially 258 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.799 true in the summer of twenty twenty one when after 259 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:57.200 we had pulled our troops and our logistics and our 260 00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:59.480 ISR and our air support and everything that we had 261 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:05.079 built the Afghan military around, combined with a massive Taliban offensive, 262 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:08.839 a very effective, one very smart Taliban offensive, the Afghan 263 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:12.480 military was falling apart. And so he was promoting this 264 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.720 fiction about the size and strength and capability of the 265 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.640 Afghan military that he knew was not true. And on 266 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.720 top of that, he was testifying about the speed and 267 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:27.640 scale of the Taliban advances and if anyone ever was 268 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.279 following the Long War Journal at the time, the Long 269 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:36.359 War Journal was a tracking district by district Taliban control, 270 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:42.359 largely using open source and Millie's claims about the speed 271 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:46.039 and scale of the Taliban advance were way behind where 272 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.960 the Long War Journal was and so he either didn't 273 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.200 know how quickly the Taliban was taking over or again 274 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:56.480 he was just misleading about this Taliban advance. And the 275 00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.279 reason why I'm harping on this is that the military 276 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.839 brand and military generals have done a very good job 277 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.599 of avoiding their piece of the accountability for what happened 278 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.960 in August of twenty twenty one, Milli especially, And so 279 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.359 accountability is going to be looking at all of those 280 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.920 military commanders and military generals and this and and and 281 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.519 really holding them to account for what they did. We 282 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.680 need a real accounting of the decisions that they made 283 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.799 and uh, you know, a real public accounting of the 284 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.000 of the mistakes that they made, because the military needs 285 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:41.920 to embrace we need to embrace the reality that the 286 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:46.000 war in afghan And was a defeat and that in 287 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:51.000 twenty twenty one. The military brass unfortunately was a part 288 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.480 of why that defeat occurred. 289 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.759 Yeah, one of the one of the first thing is 290 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.839 the long word general is a great m hm, great 291 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:05.160 source of information from a lot of things. They do 292 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:09.799 a really good job. I mean, he's the point, he's 293 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.960 he's President Trump has said indicated he wants Radcliffe to 294 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:16.799 be his CIA director and you know, how how what 295 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.880 what does that look like in from your view given? 296 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:22.440 I mean what I saw was when you resigned from 297 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.839 the from the commission that was looking into the Afghan thing, 298 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.480 the the you had a Republican that was a Republican 299 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:36.480 as you said, Republican group led group, and and they 300 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:38.640 were they were reluctant to get into that stuff that 301 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:41.960 you've you've pointed out. Now, I mean, what is is there? 302 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:45.799 I guess my question is is that is that resistance 303 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.160 there because they get what they do what they do 304 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.279 to get along with with the bureaucracy and everybody else. 305 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.519 Is it or is it just is it possible to 306 00:20:55.519 --> 00:21:03.319 have bringing enough people of the nature of proposed Secretary 307 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.559 of Defense that are you know, they're they just had 308 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:07.799 enough of this stuff and they're not going to put 309 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:09.480 up with with that kind of nonsense. 310 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.519 It's a great question. It's one of the most important questions. 311 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:15.880 So let let me let me take a stab at it. 312 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:21.160 So the thing that I discovered, unfortunately with my position 313 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.079 as a senior investigator on the House Foreign Affairs Committee 314 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:31.759 investigating the withdrawal from Afghanistan, is there is real institutional 315 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:38.119 capture of a number of the oversight committees on Capitol Hill. 316 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:43.359 The what that that the House Armed Services Committee should 317 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:49.359 be the committee that is doing real oversight of the 318 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.920 military and the military piece of this, but that was 319 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:58.400 just not not the case. The House Intelligence Committee should 320 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.240 have done real oversight of the intelligence failures in Afghanistan 321 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.240 twenty twenty one, but that was really not the case. 322 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.640 The House Foreign Affairs Committee took on sort of the 323 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:12.839 entire breadth of the investigation, the State Department side, the 324 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:16.960 military side, all of it. But there is institutional capture there. 325 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:22.279 There was a desire to sort of put all of it, 326 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:27.000 all the blame on the State Department and let the 327 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:32.759 military off the hook. What Chairman Millie is a very 328 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:39.599 talented politician, and I think that sometimes maybe people forget 329 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.319 that to get to be the chairman of the joint chiefs. 330 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:44.880 You often have to be a politician as well as 331 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:50.880 a you know, person with a long history of military service, 332 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.880 and he's a very effective politician. He did a very 333 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:58.200 good job of getting the househorn. The Republican led House 334 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:02.839 worn Affairs Committee, specific Lee Chairman McCall to let them 335 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:08.519 off the hook by design, because we had General Millie 336 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.960 and General McKenzie in front of our committee, testifying in 337 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.039 front of Congress on TV, and that was a great 338 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.559 opportunity to really hold their feet to the fire about 339 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:24.400 the mistakes that they made. The mistakes that Millie made, 340 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.200 I mean, I mentioned just a couple of them, the 341 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.960 inflation of the Afghan military size and strength being totally 342 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.559 behind the eight ball, on the speed of the Taliban advances. 343 00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:39.759 General McKenzie as well. I mean, people forget this, but McKenzie, 344 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:45.039 as the commander of Central Command, flew out to Doha 345 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:49.119 around August fifteenth of twenty twenty one to me with 346 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.799 the Taliban and the Taliban's leader there. Broader offered to 347 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:56.039 keep the Taliban out of Cobble and to let the 348 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.839 United States bring in as many US forces as we 349 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:03.319 wanted to to secure the city to conduct our evacuation, 350 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:08.599 and McKenzie turned that down. That offered down on the spot, 351 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:10.799 and that was a green light for the Taliban to 352 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:12.720 come in. And that meant the US was relying on 353 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.319 the Taliban to provide security outside of Kabo Airport, and 354 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.079 that I think is a big reason why isis K 355 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.160 was able to clack off an ied and kill thirteen 356 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.200 US service members. But the point I'm making here is 357 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:33.759 that these generals escape that accountability in part because a 358 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:39.400 Republican chairman let them. I don't think that, for instance, 359 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:44.599 a Secretary of Defense Pete Hagseth would let that fly. 360 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:46.799 And so I do think that there's going to be 361 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:51.519 a real accounting of the mistakes that not just the 362 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:54.240 White House National Security Council made and State Department made, 363 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:57.279 but also a real counting of the mistakes that the 364 00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:01.759 military brass made in Afghanistan in twenty twenty one. When 365 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:06.599 it comes to Ratcliffe at CIA LOO, he's gonna have 366 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:09.200 his work cut out for him as well for restoring 367 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:13.720 the American people's trust in the institution of the Central 368 00:25:13.720 --> 00:25:17.279 Intelligence Agency. Does he have the commitment to do what 369 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.640 needs to be done. I do think that he does. 370 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:24.279 I can talk just a little bit about covering him 371 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.359 when he was the director, the Director of National Intelligence 372 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.279 in twenty twenty, look he raised the alarm in a 373 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.119 very significant way about the threat posed by the Chinese 374 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:42.079 Communist Party, the threat posed not just militarily but also 375 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:48.039 the foreign influence efforts that the CCP was carrying out, 376 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.960 and in fact, in the twenty twenty election, there was 377 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.039 an assessment that was done by the intelligence community about 378 00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.960 a foreign influence and foreign interference in the twenty twenty election, 379 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.599 and the consensus was that Russia tried to influence it 380 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:09.000 to help Trump, that Iran tried to influence the twenty 381 00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:12.480 twenty election to hurt Trump. But then there was a 382 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.359 division inside of the intelligence community about what China did, 383 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:20.920 and a big swath of the IC tried to make 384 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.279 the argument that China did not try to influence the 385 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:27.279 twenty twenty election. But the National Intelligence Officer for Cyber 386 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:28.640 was joined by. 387 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.039 D. 388 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:30.400 And I. 389 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:35.440 Ratcliffe at the time in assessing that China did try 390 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:40.799 to influence the twenty twenty election to hurt Trump. And 391 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:45.720 because of Ratcliffe, we actually got a sort of an 392 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:50.279 analysis of the IC and sort of an analysis of 393 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:54.480 the intelligence community seeming to be hesitant to be as 394 00:26:54.519 --> 00:27:00.519 aggressive related to the Chinese intelligence services and Chinese influence 395 00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:06.240 as they are compared to, you know, confronting Russia and 396 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:09.640 Russian intelligence and Russian influence. And so Radcliffe kind of 397 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:13.720 demonstrated his willingness to bought heads with sort of the 398 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.839 IC bureaucracy there, and he also helped to declassify a 399 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:24.240 lot of information related to the Trump Russia collusion hopes 400 00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:26.440 as well as DNI, and that was something that was 401 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.720