Speaker 1: We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Speaker 1: Hello Kit, and welcome back to another edition of the Pso.
Speaker 1: I am the Tea and your Tilo Tom Fitzgerald, and
Speaker 1: I'm here with the Low and your Tila Lorenzo. Chause,
Speaker 1: My love, housbu. How are you, darling.
Speaker 2: I'm wonderful, counting to d's to travel. Oh.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to Ireland and Scotland next month.
Speaker 2: Very very excited about it. Can't wait. We've been to
Speaker 2: Ireland before but never to Scotland. So and I hear
Speaker 2: and see amazing things.
Speaker 1: Yes, he is over planning this trip like you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 2: But I'm jack bitch. You're gonna love me.
Speaker 1: This bitch is gonna love you because I plan.
Speaker 2: Yes'm I was actually watching it TikTok about.
Speaker 1: This Hota shock. Lorenzo was watching a TikTok.
Speaker 2: Anyway about this whole thing that there's always one who
Speaker 2: plans everything and the other one just show up with
Speaker 2: the pets for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're trip Daddy and I'm trip mommy.
Speaker 2: But you know you take care of what the things
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: I'm trip mommy. I take care of picking the restaurants,
Speaker 1: quartering the ubers, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we're very excited about it. If you live there,
Speaker 2: I feel free to send an email with suggest it's
Speaker 2: because I'm trying to get you know, some ideas for
Speaker 2: restaurants and things like that.
Speaker 1: We'll be in Donegal, Dublin and Edinburgh. Yes, all right,
Speaker 1: So we have much to discuss today as pretty huge
Speaker 1: with us the We're going to weigh in first on
Speaker 1: the Pattygonia story, the story of the drag queen who
Speaker 1: was being sued by the clothing brand Patagonia, because we've
Speaker 1: been writing about the fashion and drag queens for so long,
Speaker 1: how could we not weigh in on this one everywhere?
Speaker 1: Now it is everywhere, and say I didn't.
Speaker 2: Know who she was.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know who she was, So I don't
Speaker 1: know every drag queen out.
Speaker 2: There, So good job with the promotion there.
Speaker 1: Well we'll get into that, sweetie, all right, And then
Speaker 1: we're going to talk a little bit about some TikTok drama.
Speaker 1: It's actually not TikTok. It's all over the place, but
Speaker 1: TikTok of course feels these things regarding Tay and Travis's
Speaker 1: wedding plans.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that, and then we're back half of
Speaker 1: the podcast. We're going to talk we'll do some more
Speaker 1: TV talk. We're gonna talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: latest episode of Widow's Bay, which, oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: so good, and also introduce you, if you haven't already
Speaker 1: been introduced to the other Apple TV Plus series that
Speaker 1: came out this month, Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed, starring Tatiana Muslani.
Speaker 1: It's kind of up our alley in terms of her
Speaker 1: and the subject matter and everything, but I'm not entirely
Speaker 1: in love with it, and we'll talk about we'll bat
Speaker 1: that around and that will the TV conversation will probably
Speaker 1: have some spoilerific stuff. But if you haven't seen Maximum
Speaker 1: Pleasure Guaranteed, we'll give you a warning and you can
Speaker 1: tap out before because, let me tell you, it's full
Speaker 1: of twists and turns. So let's start with Pattygonia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Patagonia is the name of a drag queen. It's Patty
Speaker 1: p A T t I E. Gonia as in two
Speaker 1: different names, but it's clearly a play on Patagonia, the
Speaker 1: clothing company. Although she claims it was she was the region.
Speaker 1: She was inspired by the region, And I'm like, this
Speaker 1: name a drag queen who names herself after a region,
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, which.
Speaker 2: Is clearly not true because my understanding that she made
Speaker 2: the statement that she was by the company.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me just lay the groundwork. And well,
Speaker 1: in case you don't know, so her name, her drag
Speaker 1: name is Pattygonia, and the clothing company Patagonia has any
Speaker 1: shape of the lawsuit against her because she filed a
Speaker 1: trademark for the name, and she has been selling merchandise
Speaker 1: in apparel using that name and has posted She claims
Speaker 1: that she's not using this artwork to sell items, but
Speaker 1: she has posted artwork where it's the Patagonia logo, which
Speaker 1: is a very distinct logo the company, and they made yeah,
Speaker 1: spells out her name. The company told him that it
Speaker 1: looks like the same. They're fond everything, the little mountain ranges,
Speaker 1: the color choices and that stuff. So this is interesting
Speaker 1: because and she's not backing down. She's not backing down.
Speaker 1: She claims they're silencing her, they're trying to take away
Speaker 1: her identity. And I have to say, I mean, we
Speaker 1: are huge fans of drag queens and the huge supporters
Speaker 1: of the art of drag. But we have been writing
Speaker 1: about drag queens for a very long time, very extensively,
Speaker 1: and we have I won't get into it, but we
Speaker 1: had some personal experience with drag queens. They look out
Speaker 1: for themselves, and let me just say, you might not
Speaker 1: want to enter into an agreement or a contract with
Speaker 1: any of them because, and you know I'm being mean here,
Speaker 1: that's not true. It's not like this class of people
Speaker 1: is somehow. Let me put it this way, Drag is
Speaker 1: an underground art form and it's still on some level
Speaker 1: a punk art form that tends to tweak the nose
Speaker 1: of the culture at large. It tends to pull from
Speaker 1: the culture at large and then recast the culture at
Speaker 1: large through a queer lens. That has been the art
Speaker 1: of drag from the beginning. It's sort of you know,
Speaker 1: when you get into questions of is drag making fun
Speaker 1: of women? I always say to any woman who was
Speaker 1: offended by drag, it is not my job or my
Speaker 1: role to tell you not to be offended by it.
Speaker 1: But I do think drag, for instance, in that instance,
Speaker 1: it's not making fun of women. It's making fun of
Speaker 1: modern femininity, fun of the tropes of femininity and what
Speaker 1: is imposed on women and what women have to do
Speaker 1: to navigate the world. But it is not making fun
Speaker 1: of women themselves. That's my take on it. However, there's
Speaker 1: always these lines. There's always these very blurred lines. So
Speaker 1: on the one hand, I want to say, okay, Patty Gone,
Speaker 1: as a drag queen, you have a right to parody things.
Speaker 1: You have a right. It is the goal of drag
Speaker 1: to pull from the main culture and remix it in
Speaker 1: a way that's queer and different in comments on that culture.
Speaker 1: So there's some part of me that thinks, Okay, she
Speaker 1: kind of has a point, But there's a bigger part
Speaker 1: of me that's like she's promoting the hell out of herself.
Speaker 1: This is all you know, she got her name out there.
Speaker 1: She's really you know, she's more famous now than she's
Speaker 1: ever been because of this.
Speaker 2: Laws seeing is that there are a ton of drag
Speaker 2: queens out there with names like that. There's jans Ward,
Speaker 2: there's a brit of Filter.
Speaker 1: There's Trixy who used to be known as Trixie Mattel.
Speaker 2: I remember that old movie The Drag Queen that one
Speaker 2: of these dragons with Virginia Ham. You know, like that's
Speaker 2: the kind of stuff. It's funny and clever. Uh and
Speaker 2: you see who you know it's clever. I it makes
Speaker 2: me laugh when I see names like that. But when
Speaker 2: but you know, the issue is always money, when you
Speaker 2: start making money and some Yeah, so then yeah, like
Speaker 2: look at Tricksy for example.
Speaker 1: You know which is the perfect counter to this, Yes,
Speaker 1: go ahead. Uh.
Speaker 2: She she has makeup, She has a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 2: Trixy has a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: She has all kinds of product lines.
Speaker 2: She has that tricks but she only uses her first
Speaker 2: name is Trixy Motel, tricks makeup. I believe you know.
Speaker 1: She stopped using Mattel Mattel just.
Speaker 2: To avoid any of that. Yeah, I mean, so she
Speaker 2: still is Tricksy Mattel, but she doesn't sell as far
Speaker 2: as I know, she doesn't sell any merchandise with the
Speaker 2: name Mattel. I mean she she's not dumb. And she.
Speaker 1: Altered her look away from being sort of a Barbie parody,
Speaker 1: which was very early in her career. And then you
Speaker 1: brought up Jan Sport, who named herself after again after
Speaker 1: the clothing brand, and when she went on drag Race,
Speaker 1: she shortened it to Jen because she knew that there
Speaker 1: would be legal problems if she tried to. This is
Speaker 1: the thing, Patty Gonya. If she was working the bars
Speaker 1: or working the drag cert she could use that name
Speaker 1: for the rest of her life and the brand wouldn't right.
Speaker 1: But when you start trying to sell things, when you
Speaker 1: bring your drag to a more merchandizable level, then you're
Speaker 1: no longer the underground drag artist who's poking fun. You're
Speaker 1: actually a company and a brand.
Speaker 2: Right. You have to think of someone imagine a drag
Speaker 2: queen going by a Mom Donna or Mam Donna. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then trying to trademark that. I mean, it's not
Speaker 2: gonna work. Right.
Speaker 1: I still think you can get away with names. You
Speaker 1: can get away with names.
Speaker 2: And my understanding is that Patagonne the brand was fine
Speaker 2: unto a certain point. Is when they found out that
Speaker 2: she was applying for a trademark with that name, that
Speaker 2: they started, you know, contacting her, and you know, I
Speaker 2: mean there's a ton of videos now, there's a ton
Speaker 2: of articles now everywhere vanity for her in an article.
Speaker 2: Everyone has their time.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they're all talking about congratulations to Patty Gania, right,
Speaker 1: she did it.
Speaker 2: The thing is that you can't say anything like TikTok
Speaker 2: is going nuts every time. Every time you say anything,
Speaker 2: they say, well, you're just defending corporations, big corporation blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, you know, and she's just a small artists
Speaker 2: blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: True. But one of the points that Pedagonia the company
Speaker 2: makes and makes sense is that they have to protect
Speaker 2: their brand. If they say yes to Patty Gania, then
Speaker 2: they have to say yes to a lot of other people.
Speaker 1: Copyright law. That's it right there. Once you open that gate, yes,
Speaker 1: then you can have your brand destroyed by outsiders.
Speaker 2: Right. I mean a lawyer later on can come and say,
Speaker 2: well you open you know you were okay with Patty Gania,
Speaker 2: how come you're going after this person so.
Speaker 1: You know, you're putting them as a corporation. And they
Speaker 1: would have to put an awful lot of faith into
Speaker 1: that single drag queen that she would not do something
Speaker 1: to damage the brain. What if Patty Gunya decide she
Speaker 1: wants to do only fans or something or something like that,
Speaker 1: She's free to do those things. But Patagonia, as the
Speaker 1: company is free to say I'm sorry, we cannot have
Speaker 1: your you using our name, and we have no control
Speaker 1: over what you're going to do.
Speaker 2: I mean, I my understanding is very little when it
Speaker 2: comes to stuff like that. But I mean, even I
Speaker 2: was like, you can't get someone's name, someone.
Speaker 1: And logo and try and sell things and make.
Speaker 2: Money off of that.
Speaker 1: I don't know her, obviously, I'm not familiar with her work,
Speaker 1: so I don't know if she was just dumb and
Speaker 1: naive about this or if this is really like she's
Speaker 1: just being smart and working the system. Like I said,
Speaker 1: knowing what I know about drag queens my personal experience
Speaker 1: with them, I think she's working the system. She's I
Speaker 1: don't think she's done.
Speaker 2: Very kind of delusion in a way about the whole thing,
Speaker 2: or just pushing it. Pushing it because on TikTok she's
Speaker 2: making all these videos and then you have fans in
Speaker 2: the fans, you know, I think she's fitting off of that,
Speaker 2: the whole conversation out there about it. But and then
Speaker 2: she claims or she claimed that, you know, Pedagony is
Speaker 2: a region in South America that but she also allegedly
Speaker 2: she also claimed at some point on one of her
Speaker 2: videos that her inspiration was on, you know, the company,
Speaker 2: the actual company. It was brand, not the region, So
Speaker 2: you can't have it both ways anyway, It's complicated. I
Speaker 2: feel bed for her because apparently she's a great activist,
Speaker 2: you know, and all that, and I.
Speaker 1: Agree, and I do. I don't know how how open
Speaker 1: Patagonia the company is, but they are claiming to be
Speaker 1: fairly open in what they are asking of her. Apparently
Speaker 1: they're only sewing for one dollar. They are, however, putting
Speaker 1: her on the hook for their legal bills, which could
Speaker 1: be thousands of millions, and that's to get her back down.
Speaker 1: That's the you know, that's the threat there. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I hate like caping for corporations.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, it is a fashion company, and
Speaker 1: I do kind of feel a little bit of allegiance
Speaker 1: to fashion companies that they should be allowed to remain,
Speaker 1: you know, to protect their brands. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's not as gray as I'm making it out
Speaker 1: to be. It's a little gray because you want a
Speaker 1: drag queen to be able to do her work, You
Speaker 1: want a drag queen to be able to parody the
Speaker 1: culture but and you don't want to be someone who's
Speaker 1: caping for corporations. But I really kind of do see
Speaker 1: Pattigungia's point here, and I maybe I'm being lied to
Speaker 1: by them, but they are coming off as the more
Speaker 1: reasonable one in this exchange.
Speaker 2: It's complicated. I think about us. When we started our blog,
Speaker 2: we wrote project run game, We're a project run gate.
Speaker 2: They never came after us, but.
Speaker 1: That is why we changed them. But they could.
Speaker 2: They could have, especially if we start telling merchandise or
Speaker 2: trade marked the name Prussia Run.
Speaker 1: Back in the day, people asked us to they wanted
Speaker 1: T shirts and stuff.
Speaker 2: We did a couple of things, like little things like
Speaker 2: a you know, silly things like a mug or whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, for a very short period of time. But
Speaker 2: Rovo never came after us, never asked us to change
Speaker 2: the name or anything. But I'm sure if we trademarked
Speaker 2: that name, prussick one games start selling. Well.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is, several years later, ironically, and left
Speaker 1: long after we had a bandoned the name, there was
Speaker 1: a drag queen who started using it and I didn't
Speaker 1: know that she's I came across it, and I think
Speaker 1: it was like a Facebook post, and she had done
Speaker 1: all this, like she had worked up logos and everything
Speaker 1: that kind of looked like our old logo. And I
Speaker 1: don't know what she was planning on doing with it,
Speaker 1: but a whole bunch I remember her posting on her
Speaker 1: socials and saying, I can't believe no one ever thought
Speaker 1: of this. A bunch of people were like, uh no,
Speaker 1: Tom and Lorenzo thought of that years ago.
Speaker 2: I think I think you're pushing it like like a
Speaker 2: drag queen, like brit of Filter for example. I mean,
Speaker 2: you lucky that they didn't they haven't come after you,
Speaker 2: because clearly, I mean they could.
Speaker 1: They could.
Speaker 3: I mean, let's started kitchen whares under that name. She
Speaker 3: would have a water having her own water exactly. This
Speaker 3: is what I mean. Like, I think Patty Gonia the
Speaker 3: drag queen is fine as long as she's not trying.
Speaker 3: And if she has merch, just call it Patty merch
Speaker 3: or something, you know, like Trixy did take the Gonia
Speaker 3: off And no, I think she's milking this for all
Speaker 3: the attentions she could get and then eventually she'll settle
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 2: We're talking about her and I didn't even know who
Speaker 2: she was so.
Speaker 1: Here you go exactly, so good job, Patty Gonia. But
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm gonna side I think with the Big
Speaker 1: Spirit Corporation on this one.
Speaker 2: It's a complicated issue. And I think when you decided
Speaker 2: to take a name like that, you you're just looking
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I think she'd be fine if she
Speaker 1: was just performing under that name. But if you're gonna
Speaker 1: copyright it and if you're going to sell merchandise under it,
Speaker 1: that's that's a big no. You're gonna have to go
Speaker 1: with Patty or just like Trixie did, or Jan just
Speaker 1: like Jan did. Like you can't, you know, there's clear
Speaker 1: like precedent here. I don't know what.
Speaker 2: The conversation is behind doors, but Paddagunna has been very
Speaker 2: open to making several statements about it that they have
Speaker 2: tried to make, you know, some sort of agreement with
Speaker 2: Patty Gania, but she keeps saying no, no deal, no deal,
Speaker 2: no deal.
Speaker 1: She's going to lose the name, right, and then she's
Speaker 1: going to have some big, splashy new name and everyone's
Speaker 1: going to know who she is. So congratulations girl. All Right,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a short break and then we're
Speaker 1: gonna come back and talk about Tay and Travis. Where
Speaker 1: back and now we're entering the world of celebrity gossip.
Speaker 2: Yes, the biggest wed of a wedding of all times.
Speaker 1: Yes, So Tay and Travis, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey
Speaker 1: are getting married next month, and you know, they're keeping
Speaker 1: everything under under wraps. And I really don't know how
Speaker 1: much of this we're ever really going to see.
Speaker 2: Well, apparently they're getting married when July fourth or something eighth,
Speaker 2: I think it is. Oh, oh, they changed anyway, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: I could be wrong.
Speaker 2: Anyway, in July some time. Anyway, there somewhere on the planet.
Speaker 1: And there's drama on TikTok and on social media surrounding this,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to let Lorenzo because I don't give
Speaker 1: a shit about this. No, I'm joking, I actually do
Speaker 1: have I think I think I don't follow this the
Speaker 1: way you I.
Speaker 2: Think it's honestly, I can't wait to be for that
Speaker 2: wedding to be over, because that's what everybody talked about,
Speaker 2: and it's just I think it's just they're making it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: To adity because I'm not on TikTok, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I was talking about this wedding, talking.
Speaker 2: About every magazine.
Speaker 1: Everybodody on TikTok is talking.
Speaker 2: Everybody, every magazine. Everybody's talking about this wedding because it's
Speaker 2: a secret, and nobody knows when's going to happen, where's
Speaker 2: going to happen, you know, And of course it's tell
Speaker 2: us if getting married, so of course everyone is talking
Speaker 2: about it. But the issue that some magazines and some
Speaker 2: people were talking about is that apparently you get invited
Speaker 2: if you're lucky, one of the very few on the planet,
Speaker 2: and then but you can't bring a guest with you.
Speaker 1: No one's allowed to plus want it, yes.
Speaker 2: So and people were annoyed with that, you know, complaining
Speaker 2: about it, saying what am I gonna do? And am
Speaker 2: I going to just be by myself? Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: I don't know, And then everyone was talking about weddings
Speaker 2: in general like that, you know, would you go by
Speaker 2: yourself if you if you could bring a person with you?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's fine. I mean I
Speaker 2: posted one of the articles in the lounge post I
Speaker 2: forget when, and a few people were making a point
Speaker 2: that you know, I've been to several weddings by myself.
Speaker 2: I don't see what the big do is, especially if
Speaker 2: it's a very famous wedding like that. I'm sure you
Speaker 2: know most of the people.
Speaker 1: I've ever been to a wedding by myself. That seems
Speaker 1: weird to me, but I I have it.
Speaker 2: It was fine.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think like it was went to
Speaker 1: weddings as a family member where I didn't have a
Speaker 1: date or a partner with me, but not like you know,
Speaker 1: some friends. Well that's not true. Actually I did go
Speaker 1: to friends weddings by myself. It's been so long since
Speaker 1: I've been single.
Speaker 2: I was I remember going to one of my friends.
Speaker 1: I did go to a field.
Speaker 2: She used to work with me and we work together,
Speaker 2: and she invited me because we're very good friends. And
Speaker 2: I went by myself and it was fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't see the I didn't see a problem.
Speaker 1: I will say the reaction to this. First off, anybody
Speaker 1: who's talking about this and relating it to some wedding,
Speaker 1: you know, your cousin's wedding, whatever. I'm sorry, this is
Speaker 1: like the biggest celebrity wedding right right, It's I don't
Speaker 1: know it's up. There is Zendia and Tom Holland a
Speaker 1: bigger celebrity wedding than this. I don't know. This is
Speaker 1: something we can debate in the comic tell us it's
Speaker 1: the bigger wedding.
Speaker 2: It's the biggest wed of all time.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but all right, let's say
Speaker 1: it's the biggest wedding, celebrity wedding of the year. There's
Speaker 1: clearly a lot of interest. They are clearly trying to
Speaker 1: keep a lid on it, and I think that's understandable.
Speaker 1: And anybody who's like, well, I you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: go to a wedding lite. Oh shut up, you would
Speaker 1: go to Taylor Swift's wedding alone if you got invited
Speaker 1: to come.
Speaker 2: I think she can invite. I mean, she can say
Speaker 2: just come alone. I mean I have I have more
Speaker 2: problem with her inviting Carly Clauds.
Speaker 1: But that's a whole apparently she got invited, and you know,
Speaker 1: I have a problem with that, Like she's married to
Speaker 1: a Kushner. Hello, I know, yeah, I mean I'm not
Speaker 1: defending it.
Speaker 2: I just well, my point is that, yeah, things have changed.
Speaker 1: I don't know, is she bringing a Cushner. I guess
Speaker 1: she is.
Speaker 2: Of course, it's anyway, I just married. I have more
Speaker 2: problem with that, with that kind of association.
Speaker 1: I think this brings up a lot of feelings in
Speaker 1: people about being a single person at a wedding, which uh,
Speaker 1: you know, can can be you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say unpleasant, but I guess for some people it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's embarrassing in some way or awkward in
Speaker 1: some way.
Speaker 2: I think I think, here's here's my thing. You get
Speaker 2: a day. I always say that you can do whatever
Speaker 2: you want, you can request whatever you want, demand what everyone.
Speaker 2: You get a day of my life. So it's fine,
Speaker 2: especially if you till A Swift and Travis Kelsey, and
Speaker 2: of course I think you have all the right to
Speaker 2: do whatever you want. And if you just want one
Speaker 2: person there not someone with the camera, you know, or
Speaker 2: a phone. I remember I was on TikTok again, TikTok
Speaker 2: and ariana granny was having friends over and she invited
Speaker 2: her brother and so anyway, they were watching TV, having
Speaker 2: dinner or whatever. Her brother brought up, and her brother
Speaker 2: brought a friend that they didn't know who the person was.
Speaker 1: And the guy, I'm surprised she agreed to that.
Speaker 2: I guess it was a big crowd and she wasn't
Speaker 2: paying attention anyway, the guy recorded her and took pictures
Speaker 2: of her watching TV, you know, very candid shots of her,
Speaker 2: and then went on TikTok and talked about it and
Speaker 2: posted those for everybody to see. And of course she
Speaker 2: was mad and talked to her brother, and I think
Speaker 2: they took it down. The guy took everything down. But
Speaker 2: the guy. You should have seen the videos that the
Speaker 2: guy created about that delusional.
Speaker 1: I mean, like couldn't even understand what was wrong with
Speaker 1: the picture here, And I'm like, what, it's such a violation.
Speaker 1: I know, I talk when I see people taking pictures
Speaker 1: of celebrities on the subway in New York, right, don't
Speaker 1: do that? Well, I mean, I think that's worse because
Speaker 1: they are literally trapped, they cannot get away, and you're
Speaker 1: taking their picture. That's awful.
Speaker 2: Well, the whole thing with cameras now everywhere, at the gym, everywhere,
Speaker 2: and then and you know their legal their laws now
Speaker 2: that you know they can you know, filming you or
Speaker 2: whatever on the street, which it's which to me is
Speaker 2: so it's such a violation I mean, what if you say,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in your freaking video you know,
Speaker 2: you know, your TikTok account or YouTube account. It's complicated.
Speaker 1: I actually don't think it is. I think they have
Speaker 1: the right as the uh as the people who are
Speaker 1: getting married, to establish what kind of wedding. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's sort of it's like when people get really mad
Speaker 1: at wedding invitations. That's it's, you know, where you can't
Speaker 1: bring your kids. You know, people have that right, and
Speaker 1: if you are offended by that, you have the right disciple.
Speaker 1: Fucking I'm not coming to your wedding, right exactly. I
Speaker 1: just people get all weird about being wedding guests and
Speaker 1: what should be you know, out and not allowed and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But I do think when it
Speaker 1: comes to a wedding, like there is no comparison to
Speaker 1: this wedding right rightly, you can look at certain other weddings,
Speaker 1: celebrity weddings, but it's not going to be your cousin's
Speaker 1: wedding or your coworker's wedding. And my point is, regardless,
Speaker 1: there's this whole question of people showing up and taking
Speaker 1: pictures unwanted, and that's that's a concern in any wedding.
Speaker 1: I think we've been to a lot of weddings recently
Speaker 1: where they issue not to take your phones.
Speaker 2: Out at all, right, not take pictures at all.
Speaker 1: But with Taylor and Travis, there's the extra added thing
Speaker 1: is they're going to start putting those pictures would be
Speaker 1: worth a ton of money if people start, would be
Speaker 1: making money off of those pictures.
Speaker 2: Right, if people started posting pictures immediately, you know, like
Speaker 2: like people do on social media, but that.
Speaker 1: They would go directly to People magazine and sell them.
Speaker 1: That's my point, not that they would post these things
Speaker 1: on social media, that they would sell them and make
Speaker 1: money off of them. And because Taylor and Travis, those
Speaker 1: pictures could go for six figures, She's completely in the right.
Speaker 1: It's not just a privacy thing. It's about not allowing
Speaker 1: people to make money off of your wedding. If you
Speaker 1: don't want that.
Speaker 2: I agree. I mean, it's it's a control thing, which
Speaker 2: is which clearly her right. They're right, it's their wedding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the day, it's their wedding.
Speaker 1: Do you think there will be pictures? I can't imagine
Speaker 1: that there aren't. God, but I don't think she's going
Speaker 1: to be like selling the rights to Vanity faircal Magazine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't see her doing that. So I guess there
Speaker 1: will be pictures that she will control on her socials.
Speaker 2: Probably because she doesn't need the money. I don't know.
Speaker 2: There was a whole issue with his father not knowing
Speaker 2: anything about the wedding because apparently he can't keep his
Speaker 2: mouth shut. So that was the problem with that too.
Speaker 1: I don't think he you know, his mom's great, but
Speaker 1: I don't think he comes from a family of thinkers.
Speaker 1: So but his mom's great. I'm not putting her down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's actually apparently the father was hurt because they
Speaker 2: were avoiding telling the father anything about the Oh my god,
Speaker 2: yes again, I can't understand. It's Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1: Wedding, my scholar Swift's wedding, and yeah, let's I mean,
Speaker 1: she's only going to do this once. I think. I
Speaker 1: don't really think this is a girl that's gonna walk
Speaker 1: down the aisle a bunch of times. Not that I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not predicting this, but I just don't think she's
Speaker 1: going to have a string of husbands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, So who knows.
Speaker 1: We'll see, But here's my take on that. We might
Speaker 1: as well go here. Tay is clearly a romance minded girly,
Speaker 1: always has been, but she has not always been a
Speaker 1: marriage minded girly in terms of her esthetic, in terms
Speaker 1: of her art. It has not been about finding that
Speaker 1: guy to walk down the aisle. And she is in
Speaker 1: her mid thirties. She's like thirty three or thirty four now,
Speaker 1: which is a little on the mature side for her
Speaker 1: first wedding, and that indicates and she's dated a lot. No, granted,
Speaker 1: she probably has dated a lot of the wrong guys.
Speaker 1: I am sure the opportunity to marry has presented itself
Speaker 1: to Taylor Swift three or four times and she didn't go,
Speaker 1: and she didn't. That's my take. We've talked about this
Speaker 1: because you think this is all for show, and I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: she's got it really bad for that guy. She's got
Speaker 1: it really bad for that guy.
Speaker 2: I think, Oh God should I yes, yes, he should.
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, to me is just a very.
Speaker 1: All right temper yourself. Yes, I think, to use your.
Speaker 2: Word, she's very talented to a certain a certain to
Speaker 2: a certain extand but I think she's she's kind of
Speaker 2: a basic girl. She's a basic girl.
Speaker 1: That's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. She's a basic girl. That's how I
Speaker 2: see her, you know, with very basic ideas of future.
Speaker 1: And I think I disagree.
Speaker 2: I think she's she wants to get married and she
Speaker 2: I think the whole thing of Mary, I don't know
Speaker 2: a football player America, the whole thing. I think. I
Speaker 2: think that's the mindset there.
Speaker 1: I don't think that was fine.
Speaker 2: I don't know she was.
Speaker 1: Dating like Tom Hitdleston for I don't know.
Speaker 2: Every time I see that red lipstick, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that is basic anyway, just a basic girr in my opinion,
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with that. Very talented, you know, singer to
Speaker 2: a certain extent. But anyway, I'm just myself.
Speaker 1: I'm watching, I'm just watching.
Speaker 2: Anyway. I think she'll be fine with him, and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, who knows.
Speaker 1: I'm not here to predict. I mean, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know their marriage or their relations or any of that.
Speaker 2: They seem happy. I think he's not very bright, but
Speaker 2: they're happy together. They look happy. Maybe who knows, After
Speaker 2: you get married, things change and we'll have another record,
Speaker 2: another album with her anyway.
Speaker 1: I could be wrong here what I find I could
Speaker 1: be wrong here, but I think I don't want to
Speaker 1: reduce her down to anything. But given her history and everything,
Speaker 1: I think it's likely, and also given the nature of
Speaker 1: their relationship, which is very, very conventional and borderline conservative,
Speaker 1: I think she's going to have a baby fairly quickly.
Speaker 1: Oh and then I think she's going to do the
Speaker 1: Madonna thing where she's going to do an entire album
Speaker 1: about motherhood, and that will be very good for her.
Speaker 1: It'll be very good for her fandom, which is aging
Speaker 1: along with her and becoming mothers along with her. So
Speaker 1: that's my prediction for her going forward. I just want
Speaker 1: to add again, I don't think this is some big
Speaker 1: plan on her part. I think she dated a lot
Speaker 1: of guys because she's a girl who likes to be
Speaker 1: in love. But I also think she rejected a lot
Speaker 1: of guys because she's a smart enough girl to know
Speaker 1: that she does not want to be married to just anybody.
Speaker 2: I think what's happening to Taylor Swift, it's what happens
Speaker 2: to everybody. At a certain point, you realize that, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm done doing certain things and I want to get
Speaker 2: married now, which is fine.
Speaker 1: That's true of most people, especially when.
Speaker 2: They not just women. I'm not saying just women, men
Speaker 2: and women. They get to a certain point that like,
Speaker 2: all right, I've achieved a lot, I've done a lot
Speaker 2: my personal life, and I think that's where she is,
Speaker 2: and I think they'll be fine there. They'll be happy
Speaker 2: for I don't know.
Speaker 1: For hers crazy about her.
Speaker 2: I think he's he's I think he's enamored with a
Speaker 2: lot of things. And we'll see how it goes. Uh,
Speaker 2: and you know, she's happy. It will be interesting to
Speaker 2: see what she's going to do in terms of her
Speaker 2: career because you.
Speaker 1: Know, like I said, it'll be a baby album.
Speaker 2: Because she has a lot of very very young fans.
Speaker 1: I know, but she also has a lot of fans
Speaker 1: that are in her age group. And I know for
Speaker 1: a fact she's got a lot of like Gen X fans.
Speaker 2: Right, So it'll be interesting what the next you know,
Speaker 2: move career will be a new album, Let's see. I'm
Speaker 2: curious anyway, but that's it.
Speaker 1: I would be shocked, if I say it. I would
Speaker 1: be shocked if she wasn't pregnant within a year, right,
Speaker 1: because it's that kind of relationship. You can see it.
Speaker 1: You can look. I've seen a lot of friends and
Speaker 1: family members get married and then have their babies, and
Speaker 1: you can just see when they're in that mode. It's like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: they are ready to have a baby with this person.
Speaker 2: This girl worked her entire life.
Speaker 1: Honestly, she deserves her. Yeah, everyone thinks we're such bitches
Speaker 1: to her, But I really don't have a you know, no,
Speaker 1: I don't wish her ill at all.
Speaker 2: No, I that's not my issue. My shoe with something
Speaker 2: else you or she was that she's basic. My issue
Speaker 2: is that she's overrated.
Speaker 1: Uh and the same thing. Yeah, and that to me,
Speaker 1: she's basic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's just my opinion, which clearly millions of
Speaker 2: people disagree with.
Speaker 1: As I've always said, she is not making music for us,
Speaker 1: and I am not afriended, are bothered by that. Let
Speaker 1: the people who for whom she's making that music enjoy
Speaker 1: that music. But it's it's not me that's that I
Speaker 1: think we crashed her. I think we've been very fair
Speaker 1: to her. You're a little meaner about her than I am.
Speaker 2: I can't wait see the dress. Well, I'm sure it'll
Speaker 2: be a lot of a lot of Lates, you.
Speaker 1: Think, yes, you don't think she'll be a sexy bride.
Speaker 2: No, And lace is very in rate now for weddings,
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I see, Lates, I see.
Speaker 1: I think it'll be fairly traditional, yeah, but I don't
Speaker 1: think she's gonna have like a royal wedding type. I
Speaker 1: don't think it'll be a demure gown. Let me put
Speaker 1: a to you that way. I think, who do you
Speaker 1: think is designing her gown?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean things have changed. Uh yeah,
Speaker 2: nobody talks about your weighing, or.
Speaker 1: She'll pick someone hotter, like Scaparelli or something like that.
Speaker 2: Upa just just just got married, you know, and she
Speaker 2: went and more Caparelli suit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's the other thing. I I can't make predictions here,
Speaker 1: but I have a hard time picturing her walking down
Speaker 1: an aisle in like a conventional gown with a train,
Speaker 1: like I don't know. Like when I saw Julilip in
Speaker 1: that suit, I was like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, but that's dually, but there are two different people.
Speaker 1: I know, she's much more stylish than tailor more interesting.
Speaker 1: Boyfriend's hotter. Oh god, can we not talk about it?
Speaker 2: You're so weird about him because he's gorgeous and he's
Speaker 2: going to be the next game. I know, he's just
Speaker 2: so cute.
Speaker 1: We need to wrap this up and go Taylor's.
Speaker 2: It's going to be late long trade the hold you.
Speaker 1: I see. I have a hard time picturing that. I
Speaker 1: think it's going to be more modern sleep Gucci, Sint Laurent,
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 2: I hope he's not wearing some goofy ass suit as
Speaker 2: he always does. But anyway, no, she'll whip him into shape.
Speaker 2: I mean they will look chic on their wedding. I'm
Speaker 2: sure maybe she's were she now who knows?
Speaker 1: Who knows? You will find out in a month. I
Speaker 1: guess when she posted on her socials. All right, let's
Speaker 1: take a short break and we'll come back and talk
Speaker 1: about TV stuff. We'll be right back. We're back and
Speaker 1: we're going to do a little bit of TV talk
Speaker 1: right now. If you are not caught up on the
Speaker 1: latest Widows Bay, I would suggest you jump ahead about
Speaker 1: five minutes checking the clock right now. So I will
Speaker 1: hold ourselves to that.
Speaker 2: Our post, our last post podcast was about this was.
Speaker 1: About it, and we urge you all to watch it.
Speaker 1: And we weren't entirely planning on doing like recaps every
Speaker 1: week but not.
Speaker 2: But he's just at the last. The latest Yeah, the
Speaker 2: latest episode was so freaking funny.
Speaker 1: So yeah, jump ahead a few minutes because I just
Speaker 1: want to talk about this episode before we jump into
Speaker 1: Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed, which we will keep in a spoiler
Speaker 1: free mode until we warn you that we are wrapping
Speaker 1: things up and spoiling things. So Widow's Bay was another
Speaker 1: Patty centered episode or Patricia centered episode, and Katie Flynn
Speaker 1: is the MVP of this show because the two best
Speaker 1: episodes of the series so far have been the episodes
Speaker 1: that have focused and almost entirely on her. What I
Speaker 1: loved about this episode, and we've watched it like three times, yes,
Speaker 1: is that it is she is so damn funny in
Speaker 1: these scenes when she's running away from basically Jason. But
Speaker 1: the scenes themselves were legitimately scary. The scenes in her
Speaker 1: house when she turned off all the lights, I was like,
Speaker 1: this is good horror directing. This is legitimately scary. And
Speaker 1: the art direction on that staircase in her house was
Speaker 1: completely insane. It was all off kilter. The paintings were
Speaker 1: hung at weird angles, the light was placed in a
Speaker 1: weird space, and you know, obviously all that's deliberate, and
Speaker 1: I loved that. I loved that off kilter sense. But
Speaker 1: the other thing, and this is a minor thing, but
Speaker 1: I do love seeing this because I notice it when
Speaker 1: TV shows violate this. When you're in a small community,
Speaker 1: like and you have seen set in various houses. Uh huh,
Speaker 1: it's a really nice thing when all of those houses
Speaker 1: on the inside look like they all belong in the
Speaker 1: same Like the layouts are roughly, the kitchens to the left,
Speaker 1: the dining, you know whatever. And I noticed that about
Speaker 1: Katie's house, about Patricia's house, Katie o Flynn is the actress,
Speaker 1: And then when she ran to the book club, I
Speaker 1: was like, this feels like a house that's in the
Speaker 1: same community, right right. And sometimes people don't do that.
Speaker 1: Art direct production designers don't do that. They like to
Speaker 1: get all kinds of goofy and weird with stuff, and
Speaker 1: then every house looks so wildly different. But you know,
Speaker 1: in your neighborhood, if you go into your neighbor's house,
Speaker 1: or even if you go into a house in your
Speaker 1: same town, if you're in a smaller town, the general
Speaker 1: esthetic is going to be similar, And I do love that.
Speaker 2: What I love about the show he is dead and
Speaker 2: I'm you know, and I hate horror or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but it is so clever and fun.
Speaker 1: It's clever as hell.
Speaker 2: It's clever as hell. It reminds me of you know,
Speaker 2: weapons to movie weapons, would you know? And Gladys and
Speaker 2: you know the whole thing.
Speaker 1: About z Thatch Craiger movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how they make it funny but kind of
Speaker 2: real in a way. Yeah, like things well.
Speaker 1: Observed, like when she got to the gas station, Yes,
Speaker 1: I need twenty on three, Like that whole scene is
Speaker 1: so funny, and she forgot to charge Jesus yeah, forgetting
Speaker 1: to charge the taser. And just the fact that it
Speaker 1: was absurd that she was running through this entire community
Speaker 1: relentlessly for a half hour and nobody was coming to
Speaker 1: her aide, and this guy never ever did more than
Speaker 1: walk slowly, and yet he constantly caught up with her.
Speaker 1: It was parodying all that stuff in a very very
Speaker 1: subtle way.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that. I think that's so clever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when she gets to the house with the bitchy friend.
Speaker 1: And oh my god, I saw that tasing coming from
Speaker 1: a mile away.
Speaker 2: So stuff like that is just funny, funny, funny, and
Speaker 2: then I want.
Speaker 1: To uh as so it's all God, the writing on
Speaker 1: this is so good. When Wick goes to see Jerry,
Speaker 1: his high school crush, at the Society, at the Historic
Speaker 1: Society because he wants to tell her that story about
Speaker 1: her brother and about how he's been holding a torch
Speaker 1: for her blah blah blah, and her husband walks in,
Speaker 1: and then the scene instantly he'd already handed her the
Speaker 1: picture inside we need to talk and I've been carrying
Speaker 1: this around in my wallet for you know, sixty years
Speaker 1: old happens and then yeah, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: caught the line, because I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's really funny writing. The husband shows up, and then
Speaker 1: Wick realizes he needs to get out of there and
Speaker 1: he can't say what he came there to say, so
Speaker 1: he goes, wow, I got a lot of photographs to
Speaker 1: hand out today, so I better get And that was
Speaker 1: just a hilarious way to end that very poignant somewhat
Speaker 1: said see.
Speaker 2: And the fact that he couldn't finish the story, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it feels so real. It feels like what when when
Speaker 2: things happen in real life.
Speaker 1: You know. And then I one thing that I forgot
Speaker 1: to mention last week, my theory, and I actually thought
Speaker 1: it was going to come out this week, but they're
Speaker 1: holding off on this. So at the end of last
Speaker 1: week's episode, the camera zoomed in on the painting in
Speaker 1: the hotel of that of the founder's family, his children
Speaker 1: trying to escape the island, and one child is in
Speaker 1: the water, swimming away from the boat. And I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there has to be a reason why they zoomed
Speaker 1: in on that after they killed the founder of the island, right,
Speaker 1: And that is it's suggesting that his line did not end,
Speaker 1: that other people on the island are of his bloodline.
Speaker 1: They would not put something like that in there unless
Speaker 1: the person is a character that we know, right, They're
Speaker 1: not going to just pull some character in from from
Speaker 1: the left and say, Okay, here's his descendant. No, it's
Speaker 1: going to be someone we know. And I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just it's his son.
Speaker 2: You think it's your son.
Speaker 1: How could it not be his son? His son is
Speaker 1: of the line of people, his mother was of the
Speaker 1: line of people. Well, and that's not true. His mother
Speaker 1: was born on the Island. That's all we know. It
Speaker 1: suggests that she's an old timer, could be that she's
Speaker 1: from an old family. And yeah, I just think he's
Speaker 1: going to find out that Tom is going to find
Speaker 1: out that in order to lift the lurse, lift the
Speaker 1: curse on the island, his son needs to be killed.
Speaker 1: And obviously you know they're not going to do that,
Speaker 1: but it'll be that'll be the conflict going forward. And
Speaker 1: that is all I have to say about Widow's Bay,
Speaker 1: except you know, if you're still listening to me and
Speaker 1: haven't watched it yet, I really urge you to watch it.
Speaker 1: It's funny, it's smart, it's an incredibly talented cast, it's subtle,
Speaker 1: and Katie O. Flynnman just MVP And that scene of
Speaker 1: her with the shotgun outside the UH gas station, I
Speaker 1: was like, she just became a horror icon in thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: She is just an iconic lesson hilarious or.
Speaker 2: Wrong.
Speaker 1: So just yeah, just a great episode. Anything else on
Speaker 1: this ship, that's it.
Speaker 2: I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me know if you agree with my theory
Speaker 1: that Tom's kid is probably is of the bloodline of
Speaker 1: the Founding family. All right, maximum pleasure. Guaranteed. I have
Speaker 1: to say I kind of came to this begrudgingly. But
Speaker 1: first off, I hate the title. I think that is
Speaker 1: just an awful title for I just do. I don't
Speaker 1: think it suggests what show you're about to watch at all.
Speaker 1: But so the title kind of I was like, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: And the only reason I came to it was for
Speaker 1: her Tatianamo's life. Who hasn't always made the best career
Speaker 1: choices in terms of the stuff that she picks, but
Speaker 1: she has never turned in a performance that wasn't eminently watchable.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, that's what she's doing. She might
Speaker 2: not be the you know, the great movie or TV
Speaker 2: show or whatever, but she always does.
Speaker 1: She elevates the material, always, always, always.
Speaker 2: And the same here.
Speaker 1: I will say that, yes, I don't want to take
Speaker 1: anything away from her. There's nothing particularly wrong with this material.
Speaker 1: Let me just do a non spoiler setup of what
Speaker 1: the storyline is without getting into any of the twists
Speaker 1: and turns. Pardon me. She is a divorced single mother
Speaker 1: who is having serious custody issues with her ex husband.
Speaker 1: She's got kind of a I don't know that that's
Speaker 1: a dead end job. It's just that she doesn't seem
Speaker 1: particularly Yeah, she doesn't love focused on her job at
Speaker 1: the moment because there's all this drama going on in
Speaker 1: her life. She's a fact checker at a magazine, which
Speaker 1: I mean, do they even have them anymore? But fine,
Speaker 1: she's a fact checker at a magazine and they live
Speaker 1: in I don't even know, Pacific northwest northwest somewhere I think,
Speaker 1: I forget. She did used to live in Portland, but
Speaker 1: I don't think that's where they live anymore. So, messy divorce,
Speaker 1: messy custody, kind of a dead end, not really into
Speaker 1: her job, and she uh has a friendly sort of
Speaker 1: relationship with a canboy, meaning a guy who does well.
Speaker 1: She's being him camera ship. Yeah let me Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a client. She's a client of a canboy where
Speaker 1: she gets on you know, a camera with him and.
Speaker 2: She got a little too personal, but but she was
Speaker 2: still hiring him.
Speaker 1: She they show a few scenes with him, and he's
Speaker 1: played by Brandon Flann who was adorable. Uh, And they
Speaker 1: have a sort of friendly talkie jokey relationship that ends,
Speaker 1: you know, each session ends with them masturbating. But it's
Speaker 1: not an entirely sexual relationship. And I did think to
Speaker 1: the show's credit, because you know, things go south, let's
Speaker 1: just say, to the show's credit, she's never judged. I
Speaker 1: don't feel that the show ever judges her for doing this,
Speaker 1: and it also, I think shows her to have a
Speaker 1: fairly healthy mindset about what she's doing.
Speaker 2: This is right.
Speaker 1: She's friendly with this kid who's a lot younger than her.
Speaker 1: She gets off with him, but she's you know, and
Speaker 1: she's the Only thing I'll say is that in the
Speaker 1: first episode they show her going into the bathroom stall
Speaker 1: at work and facetiming him with her headphones on, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's a little obsessive and irresponsible. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess they're having it both ways where
Speaker 1: they're they're not suggesting that there's anything wrong with her
Speaker 1: for doing this, but they are suggesting that she's probably
Speaker 1: in a little too deep and using it to avoid
Speaker 1: the emotional stuff in her Do you agree.
Speaker 2: Yes, which that's what a lot of people do.
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of people do, so again, kind
Speaker 1: of a healthy attitude, but doing it in work, what's
Speaker 1: realistic is a realistic attitude. I think I agree, because
Speaker 1: you know, she's uh it.
Speaker 2: They make they they make sure you understand what's going on,
Speaker 2: because he says something like I forget, but he says, well,
Speaker 2: we still have a few minutes. So clearly she's paying
Speaker 2: for it. Right, they're not friends, they're not in love. No,
Speaker 2: she's not stupid. It's just that it gets to a
Speaker 2: point like that to a lot of people. They keep
Speaker 2: hiring the same person and.
Speaker 1: They generate a relationship, whether it's yeah, which is honest, which.
Speaker 2: Is fake in a way obviously because the person wants
Speaker 2: the money and you need the attention, so it goes
Speaker 2: beyond sex. Let's put it this way. I agree, And
Speaker 2: you know, more power to you if you have the
Speaker 2: money to wait, to wait for a friend. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: it's it's it's clear that that you know she's she
Speaker 2: hired him. Yeah, she's paying for him.
Speaker 1: And this is the setup in the first five or
Speaker 1: ten minutes. So we haven't spoiled anything, and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to spoil anything yet. I want to get into
Speaker 1: Tatiana herself.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: One of the things she's really really good at is
Speaker 1: playing women who are weighing over her head. Yes, she
Speaker 1: her what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: That is she? That is her her sweet spot when
Speaker 1: it comes to acting, and she's in it through this
Speaker 1: whole thing. Jay Johnson plays the ex husband, and I
Speaker 1: do think that's interesting casting. They actually look like a
Speaker 1: couple who would have been married to Yeah, there they do.
Speaker 1: But he's actually playing kind of an asshole. He doesn't
Speaker 1: normally play such big assholes. But he's good, He's very good. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the other thing is that the writing is intelligent
Speaker 1: because he is kind of the asshole x husband but
Speaker 1: at the same time, and there is a lot of
Speaker 1: new ones there, right, and he has legitimate concerns about
Speaker 1: allowing her to have custody.
Speaker 2: And we still don't know what really happened there. There's
Speaker 2: stuff coming about Portland and you know, so we really
Speaker 2: don't know if he's right to, you know, be kind
Speaker 2: of an asshole to her. You know, we don't know yet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe she did something that we we still don't know.
Speaker 1: So now I want to get into my critique here, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, I came to this somewhat slowly. I
Speaker 1: didn't think the setup sounded all that interesting to me,
Speaker 1: and I didn't think that and I was really turned
Speaker 1: off by the title. But I sat through the first episode,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know. But I said
Speaker 1: to Lorenzo, I was like, why didn't you watch the
Speaker 1: first episode? Because this is the kind of show you
Speaker 1: love where people get in over their heads and there's
Speaker 1: a million twists and turns and the story just gets
Speaker 1: crazier and crazy and crazier. So I told Lorenzo, watch
Speaker 1: the first episode if you're into it, h we'll watch
Speaker 1: the second and third and we'll do a podcast on it.
Speaker 1: So I watched the second and third and I'm in it.
Speaker 1: I'm probably going to finish this season. But my oh,
Speaker 1: there's cats all over this table right now.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: They're moving on our laptops and everything. If they start fighting,
Speaker 1: oh god. So there was that. Ironically, Matthew Rees, who
Speaker 1: was also starring in Widow's Bay, there is that series
Speaker 1: that he did earlier this year with Claire Danes called
Speaker 1: The Beast in Me that was on Netflix. Is that
Speaker 1: what it was called?
Speaker 2: I think so yeah, where.
Speaker 1: Maybe he killed his ex wife and she's a celebrated
Speaker 1: lesbian author. And it was one of those deals where
Speaker 1: in the first half hour I was like, Nope, I'm
Speaker 1: checked out because I know exactly where this is going,
Speaker 1: meaning I didn't know exactly how that series was going
Speaker 1: to wind up, but you watched it, and I came
Speaker 1: back to you later and I said, let me guess,
Speaker 1: and I guessed all these things, all the twists and turns.
Speaker 1: She blows up her life, she becomes obsessed with him.
Speaker 1: And that's how I felt watching the first episode of
Speaker 1: this show, where I was like, I feel like I
Speaker 1: know exactly where it's going. I may not know every
Speaker 1: twist and turn, and in fact, there were a few
Speaker 1: in the subsequent episodes that I did not see coming.
Speaker 1: But it's literally about the twists and turns and shows
Speaker 1: like that. I just feel there a dime a dozen nowadays,
Speaker 1: I just feel like, oh, a normal person and got
Speaker 1: in over her head and twists and turns and secrets,
Speaker 1: and I bet you didn't know that, and everything you
Speaker 1: know is wrong and she's becoming obsessed and she's ruining
Speaker 1: her life. And I'm like, yeah, I have seen this
Speaker 1: streaming series a thousand times before. What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: in regard to that? I don't I hear you rolling
Speaker 1: your eyes. I can feel it.
Speaker 2: Well. You have a tendency to figure things out more
Speaker 2: than I do, and you know you better. You'd better, yeah,
Speaker 2: because you're clever, because I'm clearly the smart one and
Speaker 2: you're the pretty one. Yes, you're the more intelligent one.
Speaker 2: To hear. Now, you went to film school, You get
Speaker 2: all these things. You get to see things in a
Speaker 2: way that right, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tend to look at the writing of a show.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 1: So I am enjoying.
Speaker 2: I do like the subject matter, the whole only fan thing.
Speaker 2: I love that. I think that's great that it's coming
Speaker 2: to stories now on TV shows, because that's the reality now.
Speaker 2: Everyone has a a fan.
Speaker 1: A camp in and say, I think it's interesting that
Speaker 1: this is coming out at the same time that Margot's
Speaker 1: got money troubles us out and that is about a
Speaker 1: girl who winds up opening an only Fans account she
Speaker 1: needs money, and I think we're going to look back
Speaker 1: at this time. But there's a ton of these sorts
Speaker 1: of stories about people turning to you know, pornography or whatever,
Speaker 1: or sex work, and I think it's very indicative of
Speaker 1: the times that we live in in a way that's
Speaker 1: a little dark. But yeah, but it's not. It's I
Speaker 1: think it's a quick buck that is happening right now,
Speaker 1: and it's happening with social media. It's happening insecurity in
Speaker 1: the world, you know.
Speaker 2: But like people creating accounts on YouTube and TikTok and
Speaker 2: making money, all these influencers whatever whatever, they are making
Speaker 2: money and all that. So, yeah, you see that more
Speaker 2: and more and more, especially the younger generation. I don't
Speaker 2: know how long they can stand that they can keep
Speaker 2: that going. You know, at some point they're they're not
Speaker 2: interesting anymore.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's, like I said, this is
Speaker 1: a little above my pay grade, but I do think
Speaker 1: it's an interesting commentary. Let me put it this way.
Speaker 1: When we started blogging, there were movies and TV shows
Speaker 1: in the year's post, like around twenty ten or so
Speaker 1: that were about people who were blogging. And then maybe
Speaker 1: about ten about ten years ago, you started seeing movies
Speaker 1: and TV shows about people who were influencers, who were
Speaker 1: selling products and living their lives online. And now you're
Speaker 1: seeing movies and TV shows about people who were doing
Speaker 1: sex work and camera work and only fans work. And
Speaker 1: I think there's a rather dark commentary about how the
Speaker 1: avenues for anyone to do any sort of independent media
Speaker 1: work are getting narrower and narrow, and now we're narrow,
Speaker 1: We're no one's starting a blog in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: And I mean literally fifteen years ago when people were
Speaker 1: asking me, I was like, yeah, don't start a blog.
Speaker 1: Blogging is dying. No one's social media is dying. So
Speaker 1: influencers are a thing that are not going They're going
Speaker 1: to be roughly what bloggers are now, which is this
Speaker 1: throwback to another period. That's all I'm just rambling here,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's interesting how media is. Social
Speaker 1: media and online media is removing opportunities for people to
Speaker 1: express themselves until what we're left with is sex working
Speaker 1: cam work.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the thing is that I think because we're
Speaker 2: so visually obsessed now, you know, with especially with social media.
Speaker 2: I see that happening a lot on TikTok on Instagram.
Speaker 2: I mean you see all these hot men and women
Speaker 2: and you immediately even I do the same, mouth like
Speaker 2: all right, they can.
Speaker 1: We see them naked somewhere? And then you go to
Speaker 1: only fans, you know, there's like there's always and they
Speaker 1: do it. I mean you see all these I have
Speaker 1: no judgment for anyone, no I don't.
Speaker 2: But you see all these hot men and women, especially
Speaker 2: you know so called you know, I don't know, or actors,
Speaker 2: actors or whatever models they usually see. They're an only
Speaker 2: fan account always because they want to make money. And
Speaker 2: I can understand. I mean, you know, people are interested
Speaker 2: in paying to see you, uh doing things. So yeah,
Speaker 2: why if you feel like it, make your money? Yeah,
Speaker 2: make your buck.
Speaker 1: So that's set up. And I do want to say
Speaker 1: that if you like those kinds of shows, twists and
Speaker 1: turns people in over their head, that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: if you like what we've told you about it, then yes,
Speaker 1: I even though I've sort of damned it with a faint,
Speaker 1: faint praise, it's a watchable show and if you want to,
Speaker 1: you should check it out.
Speaker 2: I think she's phenomenal.
Speaker 1: It's Tatiana all the way, always, always, and if you
Speaker 1: were fan, I think what you want? Yeah, yes, and
Speaker 1: she's funny. There's always Murray Bartlett. Right, Well, I want
Speaker 1: to get into spoilers, so why don't we hold off
Speaker 1: on him?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And is there anything else you want to add before
Speaker 1: we start talking about what happens.
Speaker 2: In the stream. No, No, we can go ahead, and.
Speaker 1: All right, so love you mean it? Bye bye, we'll
Speaker 1: be back tomorrow with a bitter Kiten movie Club and
Speaker 1: we'll be back next week. Okay, bye, all right, let's
Speaker 1: keep talking. We're spoiling now, so no one can complain,
Speaker 1: all right. So the setup here is that she gets
Speaker 1: into involved with this camboy on a on a on
Speaker 1: a slightly impersonal basis, but she has, you know, a
Speaker 1: relationship with him, and on camera, while she's doing a
Speaker 1: session with him, he gets attacked and then she gets
Speaker 1: messages from him that people are going to kill him, right,
Speaker 1: and she gets caught up in this scam and it's
Speaker 1: clearly that it's clear that this guy is scamming her,
Speaker 1: and so we follow that for a little bit and
Speaker 1: actually I think it's at the end of the first
Speaker 1: episode she I.
Speaker 2: Think, so I can't remember, Yeah, yeah, I don't remember.
Speaker 1: At the end of the first episode she finds his body.
Speaker 1: He actually does get killed, yes, And one of the
Speaker 1: things I do like about it is, you know, she
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like she can get any help from the police.
Speaker 1: I think, Dolly Leone, Oh my god, she's so good.
Speaker 1: And what I love about that is in a story
Speaker 1: like this, you expect the lead character to lie to
Speaker 1: the cops for some stupid reason, but she doesn't. When
Speaker 1: she gets confronted with the guy dying, she immediately almost
Speaker 1: immediately comes out and says, Okay, I was there. I
Speaker 1: saw it. She doesn't hide what she knows and what
Speaker 1: she saw from this cop. And I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: that's good because when you do stuff like that, when
Speaker 1: you have characters lie to cops and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: I'm immediately gonna think, all right, well, you're an idiot,
Speaker 1: and everything that happens to you after this point is done.
Speaker 2: Now. I can't stand when that happens. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Similarly, I will say she could bring the temperature down
Speaker 1: on a lot of shit in her personal life if
Speaker 1: she just told her husband I'm being scammed by some one.
Speaker 1: There's no reason why she can't tell him that. She
Speaker 1: doesn't have to say it's a camboy or that she
Speaker 1: found his dead body. But he wants to know, well,
Speaker 1: why is there crazy stuff going on here? And all
Speaker 1: she say is people got a hold of my number
Speaker 1: and they're trying to scam me. But she doesn't say that,
Speaker 1: and she lets him almost abuse her in a couple
Speaker 1: of scenes.
Speaker 2: At some point I thought the husband was behind the
Speaker 2: whole thing.
Speaker 1: Well, who knows, We've won't be seen three and like
Speaker 1: this is a show or the new Wipe or whatever.
Speaker 1: Why I know it'll be something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. She was buying and she was looking
Speaker 2: around in a funny way.
Speaker 1: Did you know what that's that all about?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 1: Why did she go to another address to get a bike?
Speaker 1: Very strange?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they were I don't know,
Speaker 2: doing something with the cam guy.
Speaker 1: Who who knows. I do think the Murray Bartlett thing
Speaker 1: did catch me off guard. They introduced his character and
Speaker 1: he's the camboy's older boyfriend and it's this lovely scene
Speaker 1: of romance and whatever. But he's the guy who killed him. Right,
Speaker 1: That's the big twist is Murray Bartlett is the guy
Speaker 1: who killed him. And also the people that are trying
Speaker 1: to scam Tatiana Maslani. This is where it gets all
Speaker 1: kinds of confusing. In fact, you had a we had
Speaker 1: a posit so that I could you know, lay this out?
Speaker 1: Is that they don't know. They didn't know the boy
Speaker 1: the camboy has a friend, a female friend. I don't
Speaker 1: think they ever named her, No, I don't And the
Speaker 1: two of them had worked out this scam and the
Speaker 1: girl was using a voice modulator to call Tatiana Masani
Speaker 1: and make all of these threats and so on and
Speaker 1: so on and so on. It has nothing to do
Speaker 1: apparently with Murray Bartlett. This was just some scam that
Speaker 1: he was, you know, he and his friend were doing
Speaker 1: on people. I don't know why Murray Bartlett killed him,
Speaker 1: but had it didn't really it didn't have anything to
Speaker 1: do with.
Speaker 2: That, right, But I believe he knew about those right,
Speaker 2: pretaining too to get killed or whatever. I think Murray
Speaker 2: knew about I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't what about that even knew or I don't
Speaker 1: think there was ever a scene indicating that he knew
Speaker 1: that he was doing cam work.
Speaker 2: No, what about the guy who was monitoring all the
Speaker 2: videos and stuff?
Speaker 1: And well that was afterwards, wasn't it. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, that was afterwards, like after he killed him.
Speaker 1: Did he find out that he was doing cam work?
Speaker 2: I don't know. We don't know exactly what happened, what
Speaker 2: triggered him to kill the boyfriend, because but apparently something
Speaker 2: about the boyfriend had having plans to I mean, maybe
Speaker 2: not do that anymore and open he went into open
Speaker 2: a hotel or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's a lot of bullshit
Speaker 1: that a lot of lie went on in the first
Speaker 1: few episodes, so I honestly don't know where this is going.
Speaker 2: But apparently that's what triggered him to kill the guy
Speaker 2: because he was talking about the future and I want
Speaker 2: to you know, oh, and he already said, I put
Speaker 2: money down, and.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's right, that's right. He put money down on
Speaker 1: like a hotel. You're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: There, and I think Murray's character didn't like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta say, Murray, whatever work you had done,
Speaker 1: it's good work. It's really good work. I turned to
Speaker 1: you and I was like, he looks noticeably younger, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't look weird or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's cold money.
Speaker 1: It's called money. Yes, it's also called genetics, because that
Speaker 1: guy always looks at.
Speaker 2: It's called money.
Speaker 1: He was pretty at twenty five and he's pretty at
Speaker 1: fifty five. It's gold, money, money and technology and jeans.
Speaker 1: All right, let's see.
Speaker 2: I'm curious.
Speaker 1: I'm going to sleep watching because I really don't know, right,
Speaker 1: Like I said, I felt like in the beginning, I
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, it's gonna be all twists and turns,
Speaker 1: and she's in over her head a little. But almost
Speaker 1: immediately they did a twist and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't actually see that coming, and I
Speaker 1: don't actually know what's going on. And you're a point
Speaker 1: about the ex husband. I'm like, I didn't even consider
Speaker 1: that he was involved.
Speaker 2: I don't know two things. I thought he was a
Speaker 2: little too hard on her.
Speaker 1: I thought so too.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know he's he involved. And
Speaker 2: then the scene with the new wife looking around like
Speaker 2: a little I forgot about that too, like why is
Speaker 2: she looking like that? Like you know, like why why
Speaker 2: is she so?
Speaker 1: I hope Tatana hooks up with the cute guy at
Speaker 1: the soccer games. Oh well, he is adorable and they
Speaker 1: have great rapport and she needs a normal man in
Speaker 1: her life, not an asshole or a canboy. I hope
Speaker 1: they bring Brandon Flynn back. I'm sure they'll be flashbacks
Speaker 1: because he's adorable. He is adorable. I'm sure there will
Speaker 1: be flashbacks, But it's exactly the kind of show that
Speaker 1: we'll have a flashback because it's such a streaming cliche.
Speaker 1: And we just find out at the end of the
Speaker 1: third episode when when the detective what's her name, Detective
Speaker 1: Sophia Soia, she's really funny, funny try and seen it
Speaker 1: all and trying to be non judgmental with this crazy
Speaker 1: woman in her canboy, but I don't know. It turns
Speaker 1: out they find out that Tatiana Maslany's fingerprints were in
Speaker 1: the system, and then she finds out that there was
Speaker 1: some dead body in Portland, and that's how it ends.
Speaker 1: Now I don't think she's murderer, but why would she
Speaker 1: keep this information? This is when I get a little
Speaker 1: critical of these types of shows. It's like, all right,
Speaker 1: why would she have kept that from a cop, Like,
Speaker 1: if you need a cop to be your ally, why
Speaker 1: would you not tell them Listen if you run me,
Speaker 1: I'm in the system. So we'll see. Because it is
Speaker 1: one of those shows that sometimes the lead character has
Speaker 1: to act a little stupid in order for the story
Speaker 1: to progress. And I think that's why I was impressed
Speaker 1: that she told the cop the truth about, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing the dead body. So we'll see. It's Tatiana, Ma's Lani,
Speaker 1: it's Murray Bartlett it's Dollie Leone and those three right
Speaker 1: there are pretty much the reason to watch the show,
Speaker 1: and it's I don't know how much he's in it,
Speaker 1: but he's half naked through most of his scenes, which
Speaker 1: is nice, and I think that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. I'll keep watch.
Speaker 1: I'll keep watching. Yeah, maybe when it's all over, we'll
Speaker 1: do a recap of the whole thing and we'll revisit this.
Speaker 2: Let us know what you think. If you have been
Speaker 2: watching to Shoe.
Speaker 1: Let us know in the comments. Please like and subscribe
Speaker 1: and share. Yes we never say that, but we really should.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we should.
Speaker 1: Subscribing to a podcast really really helps us.
Speaker 2: And social media and you know, following us on Instagram
Speaker 2: all that's.
Speaker 1: All of that is very very helpful.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we will be back next week with whatever
Speaker 1: crosses ours across as our desks. We will also be
Speaker 1: back tomorrow with the Bitter Kit movie Cloud, where we
Speaker 1: will be watching Atonement. So that is your assignment for tonight.
Speaker 1: It is on Netflix, Enjoy well anything else you know
Speaker 1: that's got stumble. All right, we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1: Was across ourrise, across our desk until then love you
Speaker 1: mean it
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye