WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.240 It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZ Cooston's met video. 2 00:00:06.679 --> 00:00:08.960 Thank you very much, Al Griffith, as we move into 3 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.039 the nine o'clock hour here on Nightside. Last I guess 4 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.640 it was last Saturday. I read a pretty interesting essay 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:18.559 in the New York Times Colleges have to be much 6 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:21.839 more honest with themselves, and it was penned by the 7 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:26.320 president of Assumption University, which is a great school in 8 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.359 central Massachusetts, I think technically in Worcester, Massachusetts. And with 9 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:35.600 me now is the president of Assumption University, President Greg Weiner. 10 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:37.719 President Winer. Welcome to Nightside. 11 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.640 How are you, sir, I'm time, Thank you for having me. 12 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:45.000 Well, yeah, I thought this was a very interesting take 13 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:49.240 at a time when there's a lot of controversy on 14 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:55.439 various college campuses and university campuses around the world. You 15 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:59.759 are the president of a school which is a Catholic university. 16 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.719 I think you mentioned in the article that you're the 17 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:10.439 first president of the school who's Jewish, which, as as 18 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.000 someone who is Catholic, it seems to me to be 19 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.959 pretty logical. I don't know if everyone would agree with me, 20 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:21.400 but we all come from a Judaeo Christian tradition those 21 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:28.000 of us who follow either Judaism or Christianity. I always 22 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:29.760 like to tell my friends that the guy that found 23 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:32.799 that my religion happened to be Jewish. So I think 24 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:37.840 it's great that that you you were bringing a different 25 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:42.159 viewpoint to a Catholic university. And and also I thought 26 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:43.879 it was great that you would take the time to 27 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:47.359 write this article. This clearly is something you strongly believe in. 28 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.200 Let's just talk about the headline and will ease into this. 29 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:55.599 Colleges have to have to be much more honest with themselves. 30 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.200 I've read the article, I know what you mean. For 31 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.680 those who haven't read the article, just give us a 32 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:04.719 quick synopsis and we can get the conversation going. 33 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:09.599 Sure, we're in an environment in which higher education is 34 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:13.919 under attack, and a lot of what is motivating that 35 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.560 attack is a perception of political bias on college campuses. 36 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.159 And my belief is that the attack is the wrong 37 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.199 way to approach the problem. But we are at colleges 38 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.000 and universities are having difficulty getting that message through because 39 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.080 we are denying the fact that our critics have a 40 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.120 point about political bias. Not all, and I would say 41 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:37.719 not on ours, but on many campuses. 42 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:43.439 Yeah, so I have sensed that for a long time. 43 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.400 I've covered I don't know how much of a chance 44 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:48.759 you've got to listen to this show or we talk 45 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.520 about this a lot, not a lot, but we talk 46 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:58.199 about it frequently. And college campuses, not all college campuses, 47 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.840 but there are a lot of college campuses. Is where 48 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.840 if you happen to be a conservative professor, you're in 49 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:06.199 the distinct minority, or if you happen to be a 50 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:10.240 conservative student, you're in the distinct minority. You make so 51 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:16.479 many great points in this in this essay, and obviously 52 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:20.479 you know I've said the same thing. You're right, there's 53 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.960 neither conservative chemistry nor progressive calculus that is saying that same. 54 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:27.840 The same is true of honest efforts to reflect on 55 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:32.000 the great works of literature or philosophy, and and that 56 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:36.560 is true. But a lot of college professors bring their 57 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.479 own viewpoint. Matter of fact, I think you said fifty 58 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:42.520 five percent of faculty members said that they have discussed 59 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.479 climate change or other issues that are not involved in 60 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:52.479 the in the in the course that they're teaching. I 61 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:55.000 think what has happened, and I think you agree, But 62 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:58.199 you have a much better perspective than I do, is 63 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:03.000 that a lot of the universities or the universities as 64 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:07.639 a whole, have become kind of echo chambers, where if 65 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.280 everyone in the faculty thinks the same way, whether they 66 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:15.439 teach science or the humanities or in the athletics problem, 67 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.480 and if they all feel the same way, they then 68 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:19.959 to come to the people that they interact with, they 69 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.439 assume the rest of the world feels or the rest 70 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.920 of the country feels that way. Is that part of 71 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:25.879 the problem. 72 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:28.759 I do think that's part of the problem. I think 73 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.439 the more significant problem is that it really shouldn't matter 74 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:38.360 what a professor's political beliefs are in the classroom. They 75 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:40.240 should be teaching as I think we do well at 76 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.600 assumption the subject matter of the course. And I've said 77 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.759 often I wouldn't care if every member of our faculty 78 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.879 voted Democrat or every member of faculty voted Republican, as 79 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:56.319 long as they were excellent teachers and scholars of the discipline. 80 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.720 I do think there is on a lot of campuses 81 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:05.199 that are I would say more out of controller, at 82 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:10.360 least out of touch politically. There is a I take 83 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:15.839 an echo chamber, and it almost results from an attempt 84 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:19.439 to be charitable toward others. So if the assumption is 85 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.519 all good people agree with me, then Dan, I'm doing 86 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.600 you a favor by being charitable to you by assuming 87 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:28.199 that you agree with me, because I think you're a 88 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:33.839 good person. So I do think there are campuses out 89 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:38.839 there where there's genuine surprise that there are diverse news 90 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:39.319 out there. 91 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:46.879 Well, it's interesting different schools took different approaches. Harvard University 92 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:52.399 is now sort of the target rich environment for the 93 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:56.600 Trump administration, and I think the Trump administration is out 94 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.519 over the skis. I think that they're threatening Harvard, which, 95 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:04.160 of course an endowment that every university would I would 96 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:10.079 love to have. The Trump administration, I guess, is threatening 97 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:13.160 to withhold some nine billion dollars. I mean that's a 98 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:17.360 lot of money. And there's an article that's going to 99 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:21.120 be coming out in the Globe in the next few days. 100 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.839 I think it's already been up digitally by a woman, 101 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:31.720 a young conservative Globe editorial writer. She actually the core 102 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:36.680 of people on the editorial page. Her name is Karine Hajar, 103 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:41.279 and she points out that conservatives should not be thrilled 104 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:46.079 that the Trump administration is trying to force colleges to 105 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.240 heal because the shoe could be on the other foot 106 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:54.839 four or eight years from now. I assume that that 107 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:59.439 you're concerned about what the administration is trying to do, 108 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.720 not HARV but other universities around the country. 109 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:08.680 I'm a student dan of American political thought, and there 110 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:14.160 are two beliefs that have traditionally been associated with conservatism. 111 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.199 One is that generally speaking, the private sector does things 112 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.480 better than the public than the public sector does, especially 113 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:26.879 when there's a variety, a great deal of variety in 114 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.639 the market. Is there is an higher education. The second 115 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:34.839 conservative belief, at least it's traditionally been associated with conservatism, 116 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.120 that it's important for there to be a layer of 117 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:41.920 civil society between the individual and the state, and that 118 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:47.839 that layer needs to be independent. So I'm not inclined 119 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:50.720 to think that these are the ideal ways to handle 120 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:54.040 this problem, especially when things like medical or scientific research 121 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:59.279 or collateral damage. But we have to be honest with ourselves. 122 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.920 There's a significant extent to which higher education has brought 123 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.480 us on ourselves by refusing to acknowledge what I think 124 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.920 is clearer to most people and probably to most people 125 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.040 on college campuses, which is that there really is a problem, 126 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.720 and if we want to be independent, as we should, 127 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:18.639 we have to we have to be better about addressing 128 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:19.240 it ourselves. 129 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.120 My guess is the president of Assumption University in Worcester, Massachusetts. 130 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:29.879 Assumption has grown in recent years. I did a little 131 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:31.879 bit of research on it today, but I want you 132 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.200 to just brag on the school a little bit. You 133 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.120 have undergraduate as well as graduate students, correct, we do. 134 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:42.360 So give us just a little sense of it, and 135 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:44.200 we're going to go. We're going to take a break 136 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:45.720 in a minute or so. But I just wanted to 137 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.240 have people get a better sense of the school that 138 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:49.320 you are now the president of. 139 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.120 There are a lot of unique things about Assumption, but 140 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:58.480 I will mention too quickly what one is that we are. 141 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.039 There are different types of Catholic institutions, and of course 142 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:05.200 different types of Catholic universities. We're one that expresses our 143 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:08.440 Catholic identity through the nature of the education we provide, 144 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:15.000 which combines enduring ideas with professional skills. And it's the 145 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.840 enduring ideas that make things, make that understanding last, that 146 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:24.080 discernment last when technology changes. The second is we have 147 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:29.639 extraordinary students and some of them have extraordinarily high test scores. 148 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.240 Others of them don't. But what they all have is 149 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.879 which I hear from employers is highly valued, is a 150 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.720 grit and a determination and a feeling that the world 151 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:43.120 doesn't owe them anything, that they're they're in college to 152 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:46.200 learn and they know they've got to work for what 153 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:46.519 they have. 154 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.120 Well, I think that that is the type of university 155 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:54.759 that anyone should be interested in. Again, I know it's 156 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:58.320 you've been there now how long? If I if I 157 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.639 could ask, I did not do a deep die your CV. 158 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.879 Oh sure. I started teaching an Assumption in twenty eleven, 159 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:10.799 and I became an interim president and then president about 160 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:11.399 three years ago. 161 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:16.399 Okay, again, you're listening to Professor to President Greg Weiner, 162 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.320 the president of Assumption University in Worcester, Massachusetts. He wrote 163 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.399 a really interesting piece in the Boston in the New 164 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.960 York Times. Colleges have to be much more honest with themselves. 165 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.159 I'm going to at some point in the next break, 166 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.559 in the next segment, I should say just quote a 167 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.879 couple of the lines that I think are particularly pertinent, 168 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:39.759 and I'm going to invite all of you to join 169 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:44.720 the conversation and let us know what you think about this, 170 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.320 and as I say, we will certainly reference what the 171 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.840 Trump administration is trying to do. And I think it's 172 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:55.440 pretty heavy handed and I'm not sure that it sets 173 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.559 a good precedent. I think that a lot of universities 174 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.559 probably are like the President of Assumption and recognize that 175 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:05.799 maybe the colleges and the universities this country need a 176 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:10.360 little bit more philosophical balance or philosophical diversity. But we'll 177 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:13.879 see where the conversation takes us. Back on Nights Side, 178 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:15.799 if you'd like to join the conversation, you know, the 179 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.759 numbers is six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty 180 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.240 or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Back 181 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:23.720 in a couple of minutes after a couple of commercials 182 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:29.639 with President Greg Weiner of Assumption University of Worcester, Massachusetts. 183 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:33.960 It's Night Side with Dan Ray Boston's news Radio. 184 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:38.519 By the way, a quick apology to the president of 185 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:41.960 Assumption University. I have mispronounced your last name and I 186 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:48.279 apologize for that deeply, Professor, mister president. It is Greg Wiener. 187 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.600 I should have gotten a pronouncer before we spoke, and 188 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:54.399 I apologize for that, but. 189 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:56.440 Not at all. Dan when you have a name lake 190 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:58.360 wan or you don't mind it being mispronounced. 191 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.720 Well, also, my name it's spelled r A, And I 192 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:05.960 can tell you as a kid how many teachers rea 193 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:11.879 orrera or something it got badly got mangled. A couple 194 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:17.720 of excerpts from the column that you wrote. We must 195 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.320 confront the fact that the culture of prevailing political opinion 196 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:26.960 on campuses is also complicit in limiting free expression. Can 197 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.679 you amplify on that a little bit for the audience. 198 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.120 If you read political thinkers like John Stuart Mill, who's 199 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:41.480 a progressive hero, Alexis to TOEFL and others, they note 200 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:46.960 that Toko actually says that the ability of majority opinion 201 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:51.000 to crush descent is more than that of any absolute monarch. 202 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:57.399 It is a different dynamic, certainly with government suppression of speech, 203 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.399 and I'm absolutely opposed to that as well. But peer 204 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:05.080 pressure is a very powerful thing. And when there is 205 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.960 a single dominant opinion that has a way, whether it's 206 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.080 intended or not, I think often it's not that has 207 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:17.919 a way of simply shutting down descent by the sheer 208 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.840 force of consensus. People don't want to sense of themselves, 209 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:25.120 They don't want to speak up they you know, Tokefel 210 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:29.960 explainings will when you hear so many other people saying something, 211 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.120 you think something must be wrong with with you for disagreeing. 212 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.759 We have a responsibility as scholars and as educators to 213 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.559 challenge ourselves and also to draw out a diversity of 214 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:47.960 abuse from our students and from one another one other. 215 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:53.159 And some of this is is argument supporting. But this 216 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:58.279 understanding of academic freedom of freedom and again, President, quoting 217 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.240 from your article from the audience in the recording from 218 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:03.720 your article in the New York Times of last Sunday, 219 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.759 last Saturday, this understanding of academic freedom is rooted in 220 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.200 the virtues associated with teaching and learning, the humility to 221 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.720 know one's own views may be wrong, the courage to 222 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.360 chat consensus opinions, and the charity to assume that those 223 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.679 whose ideas trouble us are our allies in pursuing truth. 224 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.960 I think that is a very powerful statement. And again, 225 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.039 if we could just have you amplify on that a 226 00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:31.759 little bit from my audience, I would appreciate it. 227 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:38.279 Courage and humility, Dan may seem like they don't go together, 228 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:40.720 but there are really two sides of the same coin. 229 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.600 In an educational setting. You know, I often say, and 230 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.399 I said it quite a lot more during some of 231 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.600 the campus protests class spring, there are two reasons to 232 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:54.759 go to college. One is that you already know everything 233 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.639 and you just want to tell everyone, and you can 234 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:01.840 do that for free. The others that there are things 235 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.080 you don't know that that you want to learn, and 236 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:06.480 that's that's that's the reason to go to college. That's 237 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:08.919 that's also, by the way, the reason to teach in 238 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:13.519 a university setting, and that that begins with with humility 239 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.480 and courage comes into it when we're we're talking about 240 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:24.200 an environment of consensus, and you want people to be 241 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.000 the one person in the class who raises their hand 242 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.799 and says that doesn't sound right to me. That doesn't 243 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:32.600 have to be about politics. Might be what what does 244 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.720 Aristotle mean? And in his book on Ethics that it 245 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:40.879 might be, But what's what's the meaning of a particular 246 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:46.200 passage in literature or an event in history? Purity I 247 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:50.080 think is so important. There's certainly there are things we 248 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:53.399 hear from other people that are objectively offensive and that 249 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:59.360 that we shouldn't tolerate, but it's so important in education. 250 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.120 And I would argue in politics, to listen for what 251 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.120 people are trying to say, and that most a charitable disposition. 252 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.840 Well, you know, there are things that are objectively offensive, 253 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.759 and I think that there is a genuine consensus on 254 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:20.600 things that are objectively offensive, and there will be some 255 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:27.200 people who will identify with what everyone would agree with 256 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:33.639 is objectively offensive. And to those people I often apply 257 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.879 the phrase often mistake and never in doubt. And what 258 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.960 I'm talking about there are, you know, the people who 259 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.039 are extreme racists from one point of view or another, 260 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:52.360 and do not celebrate the individuality of people which should 261 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.639 be celebrated on college campuses. You conclude by saying this 262 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.360 colleges and universities a compelling story to tell, but we 263 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.880 will have neither an audience for that story nor the 264 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:09.279 moral authority to tell it until we are as fearless 265 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.720 about examining ourselves as we are about decrying interference from 266 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:19.519 beyond our walls. Now again, I think that's pretty clear 267 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.599 to me. But if you want to just you know, 268 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:27.640 amplify on that a bit, so my audience understands they 269 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.359 haven't had the opportunity to read the article as I have. 270 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:36.279 Sure, I'll go back to my former wife as a 271 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:41.519 political consultant. It's very hard to engage on a solution 272 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.079 when what you're actually doing is denying the problem. So 273 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:52.559 the administration really has the floor to itself because colleges 274 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.559 and universities are gone into lockdown mode, at least in 275 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:01.319 many cases. And as a result of that, I think 276 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:05.319 most Americans look at colleges and no is I thinkrepin 277 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:10.559 all about it, But no, there's some political bias, and 278 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.039 when all we're doing is denying at there's just no 279 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:18.240 room is for a constructive conversation about solutions. 280 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:25.279 My guest is the president of Assumption University school university, 281 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:27.599 you're what about it? I think is it about one 282 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.039 hundred and twenty five years old? Now, not you personally, 283 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:31.039 but the school. 284 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:33.519 Is that I feel one hundred and twenty five. We 285 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.559 were founded in nineteen o four by the Augustinians of 286 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.759 the Assumption. So the class where recruiting right now will 287 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:44.920 be the the for this fall. We'll graduate in our 288 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.160 one hundred and twenty fifth year. 289 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:49.480 Great, great, great tradition. Okay, we're going to get to 290 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:54.119 phone calls, and I ask folks, if you've never had 291 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.720 an opportunity to speak with the president of a university. 292 00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.960 Please be respectful as you are to all of my guests. 293 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:06.400 I think it's an extraordinary article that President Wiener has written. 294 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.960 I would commend it to you. Colleges have to be 295 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:13.279 much more honest with themselves, and we will be talking. 296 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.880 I see that Harvey Silverglade, our great friend from Harvard, 297 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:23.640 has has called in. I reached out yesterday to Professor 298 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:27.960 Steve Pinker at Harvard University, who is a conservative, and 299 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.599 there is there are a group of self identifying conservatives 300 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:37.079 at Harvard University. And I look at this, but I 301 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:39.720 also look at what the Trump administration is doing, and 302 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:45.240 I think that sometimes the reaction can be more than 303 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.759 it is justified. And so I'm pretty conservative guy. I 304 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.160 consider myself a right of center, but I don't think 305 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.720 that it's helpful for government, either Democrats or Republicans, to 306 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:03.000 use the force of government to make universities come to heal. 307 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.839 So that's the conversation. Love to have you join the conversation. 308 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.880 We'll introduce you to Harvey Silverglate, who I'm sure Professor 309 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.839 rather President Wiener knows well. And I suspect Harvey probably 310 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.279 has written some columns like this, and I would be 311 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.720 very surprised if Harvey didn't read this in the New 312 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.319 York Times last Saturday. We'll be back on nightside if 313 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.759 I got a couple of lines one at six one, seven, two, 314 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.079 five four ten thirty and one at six one, seven, 315 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:33.839 nine three one ten thirty. We will change topics at 316 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.720 ten o'clock. The proverbial elephant in the room is what 317 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:39.960 happened again today for the second day of the row 318 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.960 on the stock market, and we want to know how 319 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.559 you're handling it. We'll be back on nightside, and by 320 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.880 the way, we'll finish tonight at the twentieth hour. I'm 321 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.799 going to ask everybody to tell me something positive, something upbeat. 322 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.440 This has been a tough week in so many respects, 323 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.319 so many respects, and other than the Red Sox winning 324 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.400 at home today, there's been little to sell it. We'll 325 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.599 be back on night's side right after the news at 326 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.160 the bottom of the hour with my guest, the President 327 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.920 of Assumption University in Worcester, President Greg Wiener. 328 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:12.839 You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b 329 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:14.640 Z Boston's news radio. 330 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.079 Thank you very much, Suzanne. We are joined and delighted 331 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:23.240 to be joined by the President of Assumption University School 332 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:28.319 of in Worcester, right outside or in Worcester. Let me 333 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.880 get that straight. Are you physically in Worcester? Are you 334 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:32.279 contiguous to Worcester. 335 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.720 We are in Worcester at five hundred Salisbury Street. 336 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:43.079 Gotcha? Okay. The President of Assumption University, Greg Wiener, joins 337 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:46.000 us and we're talking about his column op ed Peace 338 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.759 guest essay in the New York Times last weekend of 339 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:55.440 March twenty ninth, last week ago tomorrow. Colleges have to 340 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.960 be much more honest with themselves. And by the way 341 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:00.319 you worked in the in the essay, you may who 342 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.279 worked in democratic politics before. So I think that gives 343 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:10.720 you even greater credibility to to express the opinions. I mean, 344 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:12.559 you have a right to express your opinions no matter what. 345 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.440 But I do think that it gives you even greater 346 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.440 credibility because you were basically saying, hey, colleges have to 347 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:24.400 have to recognize that maybe there is an imbalance. Someone 348 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:27.279 who I think will agree with you in large part 349 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.839 is my dear friend, Harvey Silverglade. Harvey, I hope you 350 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.480 have perhaps met President Wiener before, but if not, let 351 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.400 me introduce you to Professor Greg Wiener of Assumption College, 352 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:43.079 Assumption University, Harvey Silverglade from Princeton and Harvard Law School. 353 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:52.960 Gentlemen, right, we have not met before, but we agree completely. 354 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.000 I may have said this before in a prior phone call, 355 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.839 but I was invited by Dean James Warrenberg or the 356 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:04.720 Harvard Law School back in the early nineties to teach 357 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.559 a course in criminal trial practice. They didn't have a 358 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.960 course in criminal trial practice, and it was very popular. 359 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.160 The students gave me high evaluations. They were very interested 360 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:21.920 in the course, and Warrenberger called me into his office 361 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.799 at the end of the semester and said, Harvey, I'd 362 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:28.079 like to offer you a tenure track physician and I 363 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:32.279 turned them down. He said, what nobody's ever turned me 364 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.279 down for an author of a tenure track physician. I said, well, 365 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:40.640 I'm turning you down. The ideological uniformity of the faculty 366 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:48.279 back then was stifling. It was all progressives and I'm 367 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:53.759 not a progressive. I'm I'm a libertarian liberal, but they 368 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.400 doesn't matter what I am. I thought it was stifling 369 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.359 that everybody agreed. I was at faculty meetings, I was listening, 370 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.160 and you would think there was only one point of 371 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:08.799 view in the world, and so I turned it down. 372 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:17.079 And I agree completely with President Wiener the the they 373 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.519 talk about diversity and inclusion, but there's only it's only 374 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:24.680 race when they talk about diversity and inclusion, they didn't 375 00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:29.480 they do not talk about ideological diversity. 376 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:36.160 I think that President Wiener will be able to identify 377 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.640 with that. Professor your comment on on what Harvey had. 378 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:43.799 To say, a couple of comments. 379 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:44.559 One is I. 380 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:48.640 Can't quite to know anything about criminal trial procedure, but 381 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.559 I can't imagine there's a democratic or republican or liberal 382 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:53.680 or libertarian way to. 383 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:55.799 Teach it. 384 00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:59.799 And I think that's so important in the concept of 385 00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:04.440 that academic freedom is that and this is from the 386 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.839 American Association of University Professors, which is no one's idea 387 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:12.079 of a reactionary organization, and it's certainly one that's been 388 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.000 holding by the banner of academic freedom. That there's a 389 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:20.119 power relationship they say in the in the classroom between 390 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.640 teacher and student, and for that reason it's important that 391 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:29.759 that scholars not abuse their classroom authority, whether deliberately or not, 392 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:35.599 by introducing extraneous material into the in the course work. 393 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:40.279 I think there are a range of ways to look 394 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:44.480 at diversity and belonging, and I think they're all important. 395 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.559 I think we all of us bring unique backgrounds. But 396 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:55.039 I think one trap that we've fallen into in the 397 00:25:55.119 --> 00:26:02.839 academy it's just a fact that most administrators and factory 398 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:10.480 members are white, is instead of in an attempt to champion, 399 00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:15.119 for example, people of color, we don't pause and say, 400 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.079 what is it that you're actually bringing to this conversation, 401 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.880