WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.280 Oh yeah, that's time again. Truth time. Without the Colonel 2 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:07.839 West and Nina Turner. 3 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:10.919 Per you your wealth, we counted all joy to beat 4 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:14.720 together with you today. Despite what is happening in our. 5 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:18.640 Country and in the world, we must, we must, we must. 6 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:21.399 Find some joy to continue to push forward and to 7 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:22.519 continue to fight. 8 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:23.559 Doc. 9 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.480 You know, California is about to suit the Trump administration 10 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:30.960 over the troops. We are not surprised by that. Basically, 11 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.079 the governor and mayor baths have made it very clear 12 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:36.960 that there was nothing going on in California that the 13 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:41.520 local police could not handle. But of course President Donald J. 14 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.399 Trump tried to blow this up. Not just tried, he 15 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.560 is blowing it up, not only sending in the National Guard, 16 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:51.640 which National Guard is controlled by governors, and we put 17 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:54.079 that out yesterday that we gotta continue to talk about this, 18 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:56.200 but now wants. 19 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:57.679 To send in the Marines. 20 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:01.119 They're talking about this may costs upwards up maybe it's 21 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:06.280 not upwards, but about one hundred and thirty four million dollars. Now, 22 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:10.359 there are many unhoused veterans that I think could use 23 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.760 that money to help those veterans. But yet and still 24 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.519 want to blow one hundred and thirty four million dollars 25 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:23.000 on something that is not even necessary. The authoritarian and 26 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.719 nature of what is happening should be mind blowing for 27 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:32.400 every single American, no matter how they identify politically. And Doc, 28 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:37.560 you and I are very good at universalizing and humanizing 29 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:41.359 what has happened here, so people understand, in the words 30 00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:43.719 of the Great Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. That 31 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:47.799 what happens to one directly happens to us all indirectly. 32 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.159 The doctors in the house, we'll talk about these issues 33 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.920 and so many others, but Doc, we want to know 34 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.560 when it's on your heart, your soul and your mind. 35 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.159 Just I must say, you know I've got two focuses 36 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:08.680 right now on my heart, mind and soul. I'm thinking 37 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:14.319 of the courageous folk in the street, the precious immigrants 38 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:20.000 being demonized and vilified, with the precious children being targeted, 39 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:24.439 not just taken from their families, but taken out of school. 40 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:29.439 People are targeted at the workplace, And the same president 41 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:33.879 will talk about genocide in South Africa when it comes 42 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.599 to white farmers who are being Some of them, of course, 43 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:41.360 may have been attacked and assaulted, but no massacres in 44 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.039 the way in which we see the genocide in Gaza. 45 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:51.039 The Charlettesville was not a emergency when you had vicious 46 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:57.759 neo fascists and Nazis marching. But no, no, you could 47 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.800 see Trump saying that he's not concerned, learned about any 48 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.000 National guard here. We were there needing protection. He didn't 49 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.800 really give a damn at all. You see. So that 50 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:14.199 the racism is so thick and it's so undeniable on 51 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.080 the one hand, and yet on the other hand, people 52 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:21.960 are still fighting, people are willing to stand up. And 53 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.800 when I think a stand I think a Sly I 54 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:30.000 think a sly Stone. He's made his transition. But that 55 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:33.879 great record of nineteen sixty nine seventy I remember dancing 56 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:38.000 to that, I remember him performing that Memorial Auditorium and Sacramento, 57 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.719 and I think back of Sly himself was one of 58 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:44.599 the great figures of the greatest tradition of the modern world, 59 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:48.800 which is black music with unprecedented levels of artistic genius 60 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.479 and spiritual fortitude and moral courage. At every corner of 61 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:56.400 the globe, people want to hear black music because these 62 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:00.439 black folks, somehow are still able to generate such levels 63 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.479 of love and freedom and unbelievable healing and courage in 64 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:06.639 the face of all of this hatred and terror and 65 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.439 trauma and sorrow and so On the one hand, we 66 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:12.759 got struggle in the street. And I can hear Fly 67 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.280 saying dance to the music that came out the same 68 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.399 week that brother Martin was murdered. I can hear Sly 69 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:20.959 talking about every day people said, I'm not gonna write 70 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:22.720 a song. I'm gonna write a standard. I want to 71 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.680 write a song that people will be playing for the 72 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:29.600 next one hundred years. Will Sly, you may be gone physically, 73 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:33.480 but your music is here forever. Different stroke for different 74 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:38.680 folks will be invoked forever. And we ain't even got 75 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.720 to hot fun in the summer time. We ain't even 76 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.360 got to sing a simple song. We ain't even got there. 77 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:51.120 You can make it if you try. I mean Sly's genius, 78 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:57.240 and Rose and Freddie and Greg and Jerry, I mean 79 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.560 all of them together, the first major band that had 80 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.600 women together and black and white folk together. And of 81 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:06.240 course he was criticized for that. He said, look, this 82 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:09.040 is a human thing. These no white allies they in 83 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.839 my motherhucking band, say't my allies? They human beings who 84 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:15.959 are in the same band, and we're gonna funk y'all up. 85 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:21.680 We're gonna turn things upside down. And that's what Brother 86 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:24.600 Slide was able to do. I just got a wonderful 87 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.759 note brother South and work with Slide and the last 88 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.360 number of many many years of his life. And he 89 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:33.399 was blessed to have me on one of his records 90 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.399 with Slide called Destiny, and he was saying exactly the 91 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:41.680 same thing. The Slide Stone's legacy will live forever. And 92 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:46.079 there's no accident that the day he dies, people are 93 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:51.519 in the street taking it higher in the street, dancing 94 00:05:51.720 --> 00:06:00.839 to the music. They in the street recognizing that you 95 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:09.839 have to take a stand. The Slide took stands musically, artistically, lyrically. 96 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.319 That will forever be in the hearts and minds and 97 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:18.600 souls of millions of us until we make our transition 98 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:20.759 like he did yesterday. 99 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:27.759 Yeah, something very spiritual about that. You are listening to 100 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.959 Truth Time with Doctor Cornellust and Nina Turner. When we 101 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:33.680 come forward, we'll talk about the struggle in the streets 102 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.720 and how music continues to inform our movement. 103 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:39.560 That would be true. 104 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:41.839 You can't be true to nobody else. And lets you 105 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:44.560 are clue to use the truth time without the point 106 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.879 of us doc. You know, I was talking to text 107 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:51.079 talking with Ben Cohen, a dear friend of ours, one 108 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:54.040 of the co founders of Ben and Jerry's. He wanted 109 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:56.439 me to tell you a hearty hello when you were 110 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.199 talking about the struggle in the streets. 111 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.480 You know, Ben is very much a part of that. 112 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:03.879 Many of our audience may have seen footage of him 113 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:07.079 being dragged out of a congressional hearing because he was 114 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:12.120 standing up for the lives of precious Palestinians, him being 115 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.879 of Jewish dissent himself, but just standing up for righteousness 116 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:20.199 and being pulled out and been coin. Many people may 117 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:23.199 not knowing, Yes, that is the being coing one of 118 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.959 the founders of Ben and Jerry's. One of the things 119 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:29.560 that he's been working on so hard throughout most of 120 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:35.199 his life has been the military industrial complex. How he 121 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.800 feels about that. And so he's launching on Thursday a 122 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.920 new organization that he started, or movement, i would say, 123 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:44.120 and the name of it is Up in Arms. And 124 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:47.399 so he's going to be in DC on Thursday ahead 125 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:49.959 of the No Kings Day that is coming up on 126 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:54.079 Saturday to really talk about the absurdity of how much 127 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:57.879 money this country puts into the Pentagon budget. Minds you 128 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:02.639 of Pentagon that has failed seven audits, but the Congress, 129 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:06.680 both Democrats and Republicans, continue to increase that Pentagon budget 130 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:10.160 despite and when we think about Doge, and I hate 131 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.920 to legitimize Doge, Docs, I'm just using the language that 132 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:15.839 people understands because it was illegitimate. 133 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:16.920 It is illegitimate. 134 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:21.639 But they were talking about cutting spending, but they never 135 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:25.439 once went into the Pentagon budget. But back to Ben Cohen, 136 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:27.879 so Ben told me to tell you hello, Doc, and 137 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.519 he is holding a press conference with some ex military personnel, 138 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.480 some colonels, some generals, some military veterans who are against 139 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:43.759 war to really really try to imprint on the hearts 140 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:47.960 of Americans how ridiculous it is to spend this type 141 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.360 of money to make war instead of spending that money 142 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:55.200 to not only make peace, but also from a practical level, 143 00:08:55.759 --> 00:09:01.720 there are thousands of unhoused veterans, thousands of them, and 144 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.399 that kind of money could be used to help them 145 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.919 find housing. I mean, even what President Trump is doing 146 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.639 right now, that one hundred and thirty four million that 147 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.960 I mentioned earlier, I could dream of a time of 148 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:18.200 a world where one hundred and thirty four million was 149 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.919 put to use directly to help unhoused veterans. 150 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.360 Absolutely absolutely, But no, I send my deep love and 151 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:30.039 respect the brother being. You know we've been through many 152 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:34.480 struggles together, not just with Bernie, but he's been on 153 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:37.799 the front lines of a number of different ways. He 154 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.399 is one of the Jewish brothers and sisters like Medea. 155 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:45.039 Benjamin just rested again yesterday, but the Jewish brothers and 156 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:51.200 sisters who understands that anti Palestinian racism is as evil 157 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:56.840 as anti Jewish racism, O Black racism is just as 158 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.360 evil as anti white racism. Any form of racism is 159 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.840 wrong from a moral and for me a Christian point 160 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:07.759 of view. Now we know that certain kind of racisms 161 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.720 have been dominant in the modern world. See that anti 162 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.080 black racism has been much more dominant in the modern world. 163 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.919 Anti Jewish racism has been dominant for two thousand years. 164 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:26.679 But anti Palestinian racism is intense, not just in Gods 165 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:30.039 and in the West Bank, but in the world. But 166 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:34.919 all of them are equally wrong, im moral, and unjust, 167 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.080 and we must be morally consistent about that. But brother 168 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:42.200 Ben understands that, and so he makes that connection between 169 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:46.399 anti racism on the one handed, critiques of militarism, whether 170 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:53.000 military is used disproportionately against certain people, people of color. 171 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:57.559 It's being to look at the reflection on the uses 172 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:00.679 of the National Guard. And you know, in the last 173 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.320 old sixty seventy years, most of the uses of the 174 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:07.480 National Guard had to do with race. It had to 175 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.919 do with black people, it had to do with brown people. 176 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.919 That's not a coincident. The whole country went to a 177 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.639 civil war, killed seven hundred thousand people over us, over 178 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.240 black people. What you're gonna do with us, yes, sir, 179 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:27.279 for me and enslavement bol Barrick, white supremacist slavery system, 180 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:29.879 you see what I mean? So that we're gonna come 181 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.200 to terms with that in a political, moral, and spiritually 182 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.360 mature anner that is humanistic to the core. But it 183 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.320 also it reminds me of sly Stone's first record he 184 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.799 wrote with his family. He's played with his family, the 185 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:48.320 Stewart four called on the Battlefield Walking in the Name 186 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:50.559 of Jesus. Now he come out of the Church of 187 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.120 God in Christ for Lao even though they're born in Texas, 188 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.159 but he's on the battlefield. 189 00:11:57.559 --> 00:11:57.799 Yeah. 190 00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:58.759 Amen. 191 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.080 Good for the kingdom. 192 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:05.720 Yeah, for the Kingdom. We rapping this together, struggle on 193 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:06.600 the streets. 194 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:10.720 How music impacts that, like the spirit is just moving us. Doc, 195 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.639 So to Brother Ben again, if people should follow Ben 196 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:16.559 Coin and the work that he's doing, the name of 197 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.399 it is up in arms, and he's gonna spotlight in 198 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.519 his words, the observe the absorb abserd and moral and 199 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:29.080 wasteful pentagon spending that comes at the expense of housing, healthcare, 200 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:31.840 and education for Americans. 201 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.519 Brother Ben b I call them BC, Doc. 202 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.120 I will Brother b Seed to know we with him 203 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:39.879 all the way, all the way, all the way up 204 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:45.120 unveiling at this Thursday at Union Station in or the 205 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:49.799 Union Station area in District of Columbia. So if you've 206 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.120 got friends or front of mees there, tell them to 207 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.279 go and join him, and he will be again with 208 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.960 some colonels, Doc, He's gonna be with some generals, you know, 209 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.960 just veterans, war veterans in particular, because it's not just 210 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.240 something veterans should be talking about, but it takes on 211 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:09.039 a specific kind of meaning when you have war veterans 212 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.559 standing up and saying, don't do this, don't don't, don't. 213 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.320 Don't play these kind of games. 214 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.919 That's exactly. And he's gonna have some war veterans who 215 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.879 never joined the army of the United States. Some of 216 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.600 us been at war for a long time. We are 217 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:27.120 veterans on the battlefield in a war, but we didn't 218 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.039 necessarily join the US army. Some did join the US 219 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.799 army and still have a morality in terms of critique 220 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:37.080 of US militarism and imperialism. But when you're we understand 221 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.039 war in that broad sense, Oh, you got a whole 222 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.679 lot of veterans. I'm telling you. 223 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:47.039 That's a great, great point, Doc. You expanding that to 224 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:52.679 people who are just believing in peace. Yeah, No, I love, 225 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:55.399 I love I love the way you're expanding that. And 226 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.600 I think brother Ben would feel the same way. So 227 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.840 please please support and Cohen and others the organization or 228 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:06.159 the movement. I would call it up in arms. He's 229 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.159 launching it. I think he's gonna try to do a 230 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:11.840 four year campaign, doc. Hopefully maybe even longer. Hopefully we 231 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.600 might not need it in four years. I think that's 232 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.480 what he's thinking. But this is not just a flash 233 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.960 in the pan kind of thing. This is something that 234 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:21.759 Ben Cohen has been working on for a very long time. 235 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.679 And it just so happens that the No King's Day 236 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.000 that's happening on Saturday of the fourteenth, which is Flag Day, 237 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.840 I believe, and also the birthday of President Donald J. 238 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:35.240 Trump. 239 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.399 So there'll be people all over the country standing up 240 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.440 and all of the confluence of everything that is happening 241 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.200 from La to other parts of this country. 242 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:45.480 It's a confluence. 243 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.440 You know, none of these things were playing, but the 244 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:51.720 spirit is working in many, many ways, Doctor West. 245 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:56.480 That's exactly right. And the good news is we're gonna 246 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.759 go down swinging. We're gonna go down fighting, We're gonna 247 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.720 go down laughing and loving. We're gonna go down. Organizing, 248 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.679 we're gonna go down, mobilizing. We're gonna go down demonstrate 249 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:10.480 that nothing in the world can crush our spirit. 250 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.039 Nothing at all. 251 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.320 You know, Doc, yesterday we didn't get a chance to 252 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:19.879 because the of the depth of a great slide stone. 253 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.200 We pivoted right to that to lift him. And you 254 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.840 share so many stories. So if any of you are 255 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.200 listening today and you didn't get a chance to listen yesterday, 256 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:33.000 please download the KBLA app. If you will or wherever 257 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:35.799 you get your podcast, you can pick us up and 258 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.440 make sure that you check out all the other wonderful 259 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:45.159 shows on the network. Tavis Smiley and the crew celebrating 260 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.919 that four year anniversary. Doc, you gonna be You're gonna 261 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.960 have your face in the place. Make sure you sign up. 262 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.960 It is free to attend, but you have to sign 263 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.799 up and bring a gift card if you can, of 264 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.399 any amount, because they want to be able to give 265 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:04.639 those gift cards to the families impacted by the fire, 266 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.639 by the Altadena families impacted by the fire. But Doc, 267 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.200 you're going to be there in celebration, so yeah, let's 268 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:12.879 pause and talk about that for a moment. 269 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.480 Yeah, it's going to be a beautiful thing. Brother Tabas, 270 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.279 of course, had a grand vision five years ago saying, look, 271 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.720 we are going to create an institution, a black institution 272 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.480 that's led with a moral vision on the one hand, 273 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.200 but unbelievable efficiency in terms of management on the other. 274 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:33.000 That's precisely what he's been able to do. So now 275 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:39.200 four years later, the celebration sets in that KBLA fifteen eighty, 276 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:46.960 Tabis Smiley is now soaring like an ego Frisgien We're 277 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.759 glad to be a small part of it as well, 278 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:54.679 no doubt about that. But at the same time, the 279 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:58.279 important thing is that he keeps the ground. He keeps 280 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:00.399 the focus on the ground every day people. 281 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:02.159 Yeah he does. 282 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.720 Yeah, that's the keys brother Tabs. Tabs got a whole 283 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:07.279 lot of slice Stone in it. 284 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.160 Yes, he does. I mean he's the one that broke 285 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.039 the breaking news. He called me during the break. 286 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:19.880 He's like Nina, Doctor West, gonna go. He listened, y'all 287 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.880 got to talk about a brother slid Stone, and I'm 288 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.680 glad that we had the opportunity to do so. He 289 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.880 deserves that and so much more. And I'm sure there's 290 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.799 gonna be many many tributes to him, to his family, 291 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:33.720 to his body of work. By how blessed are our 292 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:37.680 audience and our network, Doctor West, to have people like 293 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.319 you and brother Tavis Moley, who brings so much texture 294 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.319 and depth to what we talk about today. Doctor, You know, 295 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:46.160 as we were so, I want to go back a 296 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:47.920 little bit to some of the stuff we were talking 297 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:48.559 about yesterday. 298 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.319 We had a lot of people in our tube, as my. 299 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.440 Grandson calls it, a channel, who they've built a real 300 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:59.799 community there, and one brother who I think is either 301 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.960 new or doesn't speak up as much was talking about 302 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:03.720 just law. 303 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:05.880 We were getting on that was a just law. 304 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:08.240 And an unjust law, and I think it is very 305 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.240 important for us to continue to tease that out. 306 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.640 You and I both went immediately. 307 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.559 To the letter from the Birmingham Jail that Doctor King 308 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.759 wrote on April sixteenth, nineteen sixty three, to the Clergy, 309 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:22.640 and so, Doc, I want you to go into that 310 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.839 a bit. He covered a lot. He did cover the 311 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.240 notion of just laws and unjust laws, and so I 312 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:31.240 just want to share a portion of that and then 313 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:36.920 your thoughts about how that is applicable to today. He said, 314 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.519 the answer lies in the fact that there are two 315 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.279 types of laws, and I'm skipping all the way down. 316 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:46.400 I encourage people to revisit I revisited multiple times a 317 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.799 year Doctor King's letter from the Birmingham Jail. He said 318 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.680 that there are The answer lies in the fact that 319 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:54.480 there are two types of laws. 320 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:54.880 Just and unjust. 321 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.200 I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws 322 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.279 has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to 323 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:09.440 obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to 324 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:15.559 disobey unjust laws. I would agree with Saint Augustine that quote, 325 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:17.039 an unjust. 326 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.319 Law is no law at all end quote. 327 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:24.160 So doctor King gets credit for that, and unjust laws 328 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:24.920 no law at all. 329 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:26.599 But he is pulling. 330 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:30.359 From the body of work of Saint august Stine. Doc 331 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.599 I can go further. I'm gonna go further on the other. 332 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.640 Side, but you just just take it take it from here. 333 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:41.039 Well, he's speaking out of a great tradition of both 334 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.920 the natural law system and always ensuring that laws have 335 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:49.720 to have a moral foundation. I mean, people stop at 336 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.920 the red light, that's a just law. If only black 337 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.519 folk had to stop at the red life, that's not 338 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:03.039 a just law. Laws can contribute to people flowering and flourishing. 339 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:05.880 But he goes on to say in that same section, 340 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.079 an unjust law is a law that what violates the 341 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:16.519 sanctity of human personality. It truncates the capacity of people 342 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:21.599 to grow and mature and flower and flourish. And in 343 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:25.680 a society in which certain groups of people have, by 344 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:33.119 institutional design, are not able to have their sacred human 345 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:39.799 personality flower and flourish, it is unjust. An unjust law 346 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.559 is if Jamal gets caught with a crackbag and goes 347 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:47.960 to jail for ten years, and little Johnny McGillicuddy gets 348 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.000 caught with another version of crack and he only gets 349 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.720 padded on the back end probation. That's an unjust law. 350 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:01.200 Slavery Black folk enslave, that's un just. White folks ain't 351 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.519 in slave slavery in general. 352 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:04.240 In wrong. 353 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:08.480 So Martin is saying, don't invoke the law to me. 354 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.240 You talking about law and order is law and order 355 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:14.759 for you and your people and your neighborhood in your 356 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.839 side of town. That's what law and order really means. 357 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.200 The law ain't got nothing to do with morality. Order 358 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.079 ain't got nothing to do with justice. Don't talk about 359 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.799 law and order to me when I know it's just 360 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.480 for you and your friends. That's Martin in jail. He's 361 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:38.400 in jail dealing with an unjust legal system in jim Crow, Alabama. 362 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:44.240 That's what slid Stone's tradition flows from. And he ain't loan. 363 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.279 Sam Cook and Nina Simone and the others are with 364 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.880 him as well. That's what Sli's talking about. You see. 365 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.160 That's it. 366 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:54.880 That's it, And just so people pick up on the 367 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:58.559 premise in the chat, one of our viewers was basically 368 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.640 saying what is happening in a with the National Guard 369 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.000 and all the folks coming in, Hey, these people broke 370 00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:06.519 the law. So that is why we're picking up on 371 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.200 what is just laws and unjust laws. You're listening to 372 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.640 doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner on Truth Time. When 373 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.440 we come forward, we will continue this riveting conversation. Yes 374 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:19.720 you are, Yes we are, but that we're doing sort 375 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:23.920 of a recap, if you will, adding on some of 376 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:28.240 the new dynamics that are happening right now today, the 377 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:32.799 lawsuit that is happening rightfully, So I believe that Governor 378 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.559 Gavin Newsom is right to sue. We talked a little 379 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.680 bit Doc about we continue to talk about the courts, 380 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:42.640 and how I love when you said if the courts 381 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:46.720 are involved, if courts are seen as a last resort, 382 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.640 we're already kind of in trouble. 383 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.440 That's exactly right. I mean, it's nice for the courts 384 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.680 to kick in. Yeah, but you can't rely on the 385 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:04.400 do gullible. They're too unreliable and they take too long. Ye, 386 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:09.759 this particular suit that California is putting forward against Trump 387 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.039 of federalizing the National Guard and even thinking about bringing 388 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.160 in the marines that the court may not even hear 389 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:21.039 that thing for weeks and months. This is happening right 390 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:26.720 now and company know that. They know that that they 391 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:31.519 seize the moment and then the courts come out down 392 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:35.319 the road and the damage has already been done. 393 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.480 In other words, even if we get it a good outcome. 394 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:45.200 Yeah so, but so I'm not against the courts. I 395 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.079 want the courts to do all they can. I want 396 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:50.480 them to be fair and just, no doubt about about that. 397 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:53.119 We got a long history of black folk not being 398 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:58.400 treated fairly and being unjustly arrested and convicted, the double 399 00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.759 standard that we know operation for the last two hundred 400 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:05.839 and fifty years in this country. But at the same time, 401 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.960