Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's time again. Truth time. Without the Colonel
Speaker 1: West and Nina Turner.
Speaker 2: Per you your wealth, we counted all joy to beat
Speaker 2: together with you today. Despite what is happening in our.
Speaker 1: Country and in the world, we must, we must, we must.
Speaker 2: Find some joy to continue to push forward and to
Speaker 2: continue to fight.
Speaker 1: Doc.
Speaker 2: You know, California is about to suit the Trump administration
Speaker 2: over the troops. We are not surprised by that. Basically,
Speaker 2: the governor and mayor baths have made it very clear
Speaker 2: that there was nothing going on in California that the
Speaker 2: local police could not handle. But of course President Donald J.
Speaker 2: Trump tried to blow this up. Not just tried, he
Speaker 2: is blowing it up, not only sending in the National Guard,
Speaker 2: which National Guard is controlled by governors, and we put
Speaker 2: that out yesterday that we gotta continue to talk about this,
Speaker 2: but now wants.
Speaker 1: To send in the Marines.
Speaker 2: They're talking about this may costs upwards up maybe it's
Speaker 2: not upwards, but about one hundred and thirty four million dollars. Now,
Speaker 2: there are many unhoused veterans that I think could use
Speaker 2: that money to help those veterans. But yet and still
Speaker 2: want to blow one hundred and thirty four million dollars
Speaker 2: on something that is not even necessary. The authoritarian and
Speaker 2: nature of what is happening should be mind blowing for
Speaker 2: every single American, no matter how they identify politically. And Doc,
Speaker 2: you and I are very good at universalizing and humanizing
Speaker 2: what has happened here, so people understand, in the words
Speaker 2: of the Great Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. That
Speaker 2: what happens to one directly happens to us all indirectly.
Speaker 2: The doctors in the house, we'll talk about these issues
Speaker 2: and so many others, but Doc, we want to know
Speaker 2: when it's on your heart, your soul and your mind.
Speaker 3: Just I must say, you know I've got two focuses
Speaker 3: right now on my heart, mind and soul. I'm thinking
Speaker 3: of the courageous folk in the street, the precious immigrants
Speaker 3: being demonized and vilified, with the precious children being targeted,
Speaker 3: not just taken from their families, but taken out of school.
Speaker 3: People are targeted at the workplace, And the same president
Speaker 3: will talk about genocide in South Africa when it comes
Speaker 3: to white farmers who are being Some of them, of course,
Speaker 3: may have been attacked and assaulted, but no massacres in
Speaker 3: the way in which we see the genocide in Gaza.
Speaker 3: The Charlettesville was not a emergency when you had vicious
Speaker 3: neo fascists and Nazis marching. But no, no, you could
Speaker 3: see Trump saying that he's not concerned, learned about any
Speaker 3: National guard here. We were there needing protection. He didn't
Speaker 3: really give a damn at all. You see. So that
Speaker 3: the racism is so thick and it's so undeniable on
Speaker 3: the one hand, and yet on the other hand, people
Speaker 3: are still fighting, people are willing to stand up. And
Speaker 3: when I think a stand I think a Sly I
Speaker 3: think a sly Stone. He's made his transition. But that
Speaker 3: great record of nineteen sixty nine seventy I remember dancing
Speaker 3: to that, I remember him performing that Memorial Auditorium and Sacramento,
Speaker 3: and I think back of Sly himself was one of
Speaker 3: the great figures of the greatest tradition of the modern world,
Speaker 3: which is black music with unprecedented levels of artistic genius
Speaker 3: and spiritual fortitude and moral courage. At every corner of
Speaker 3: the globe, people want to hear black music because these
Speaker 3: black folks, somehow are still able to generate such levels
Speaker 3: of love and freedom and unbelievable healing and courage in
Speaker 3: the face of all of this hatred and terror and
Speaker 3: trauma and sorrow and so On the one hand, we
Speaker 3: got struggle in the street. And I can hear Fly
Speaker 3: saying dance to the music that came out the same
Speaker 3: week that brother Martin was murdered. I can hear Sly
Speaker 3: talking about every day people said, I'm not gonna write
Speaker 3: a song. I'm gonna write a standard. I want to
Speaker 3: write a song that people will be playing for the
Speaker 3: next one hundred years. Will Sly, you may be gone physically,
Speaker 3: but your music is here forever. Different stroke for different
Speaker 3: folks will be invoked forever. And we ain't even got
Speaker 3: to hot fun in the summer time. We ain't even
Speaker 3: got to sing a simple song. We ain't even got there.
Speaker 3: You can make it if you try. I mean Sly's genius,
Speaker 3: and Rose and Freddie and Greg and Jerry, I mean
Speaker 3: all of them together, the first major band that had
Speaker 3: women together and black and white folk together. And of
Speaker 3: course he was criticized for that. He said, look, this
Speaker 3: is a human thing. These no white allies they in
Speaker 3: my motherhucking band, say't my allies? They human beings who
Speaker 3: are in the same band, and we're gonna funk y'all up.
Speaker 3: We're gonna turn things upside down. And that's what Brother
Speaker 3: Slide was able to do. I just got a wonderful
Speaker 3: note brother South and work with Slide and the last
Speaker 3: number of many many years of his life. And he
Speaker 3: was blessed to have me on one of his records
Speaker 3: with Slide called Destiny, and he was saying exactly the
Speaker 3: same thing. The Slide Stone's legacy will live forever. And
Speaker 3: there's no accident that the day he dies, people are
Speaker 3: in the street taking it higher in the street, dancing
Speaker 3: to the music. They in the street recognizing that you
Speaker 3: have to take a stand. The Slide took stands musically, artistically, lyrically.
Speaker 3: That will forever be in the hearts and minds and
Speaker 3: souls of millions of us until we make our transition
Speaker 3: like he did yesterday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something very spiritual about that. You are listening to
Speaker 2: Truth Time with Doctor Cornellust and Nina Turner. When we
Speaker 2: come forward, we'll talk about the struggle in the streets
Speaker 2: and how music continues to inform our movement.
Speaker 1: That would be true.
Speaker 2: You can't be true to nobody else. And lets you
Speaker 2: are clue to use the truth time without the point
Speaker 2: of us doc. You know, I was talking to text
Speaker 2: talking with Ben Cohen, a dear friend of ours, one
Speaker 2: of the co founders of Ben and Jerry's. He wanted
Speaker 2: me to tell you a hearty hello when you were
Speaker 2: talking about the struggle in the streets.
Speaker 1: You know, Ben is very much a part of that.
Speaker 2: Many of our audience may have seen footage of him
Speaker 2: being dragged out of a congressional hearing because he was
Speaker 2: standing up for the lives of precious Palestinians, him being
Speaker 2: of Jewish dissent himself, but just standing up for righteousness
Speaker 2: and being pulled out and been coin. Many people may
Speaker 2: not knowing, Yes, that is the being coing one of
Speaker 2: the founders of Ben and Jerry's. One of the things
Speaker 2: that he's been working on so hard throughout most of
Speaker 2: his life has been the military industrial complex. How he
Speaker 2: feels about that. And so he's launching on Thursday a
Speaker 2: new organization that he started, or movement, i would say,
Speaker 2: and the name of it is Up in Arms. And
Speaker 2: so he's going to be in DC on Thursday ahead
Speaker 2: of the No Kings Day that is coming up on
Speaker 2: Saturday to really talk about the absurdity of how much
Speaker 2: money this country puts into the Pentagon budget. Minds you
Speaker 2: of Pentagon that has failed seven audits, but the Congress,
Speaker 2: both Democrats and Republicans, continue to increase that Pentagon budget
Speaker 2: despite and when we think about Doge, and I hate
Speaker 2: to legitimize Doge, Docs, I'm just using the language that
Speaker 2: people understands because it was illegitimate.
Speaker 1: It is illegitimate.
Speaker 2: But they were talking about cutting spending, but they never
Speaker 2: once went into the Pentagon budget. But back to Ben Cohen,
Speaker 2: so Ben told me to tell you hello, Doc, and
Speaker 2: he is holding a press conference with some ex military personnel,
Speaker 2: some colonels, some generals, some military veterans who are against
Speaker 2: war to really really try to imprint on the hearts
Speaker 2: of Americans how ridiculous it is to spend this type
Speaker 2: of money to make war instead of spending that money
Speaker 2: to not only make peace, but also from a practical level,
Speaker 2: there are thousands of unhoused veterans, thousands of them, and
Speaker 2: that kind of money could be used to help them
Speaker 2: find housing. I mean, even what President Trump is doing
Speaker 2: right now, that one hundred and thirty four million that
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, I could dream of a time of
Speaker 2: a world where one hundred and thirty four million was
Speaker 2: put to use directly to help unhoused veterans.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, But no, I send my deep love and
Speaker 3: respect the brother being. You know we've been through many
Speaker 3: struggles together, not just with Bernie, but he's been on
Speaker 3: the front lines of a number of different ways. He
Speaker 3: is one of the Jewish brothers and sisters like Medea.
Speaker 3: Benjamin just rested again yesterday, but the Jewish brothers and
Speaker 3: sisters who understands that anti Palestinian racism is as evil
Speaker 3: as anti Jewish racism, O Black racism is just as
Speaker 3: evil as anti white racism. Any form of racism is
Speaker 3: wrong from a moral and for me a Christian point
Speaker 3: of view. Now we know that certain kind of racisms
Speaker 3: have been dominant in the modern world. See that anti
Speaker 3: black racism has been much more dominant in the modern world.
Speaker 3: Anti Jewish racism has been dominant for two thousand years.
Speaker 3: But anti Palestinian racism is intense, not just in Gods
Speaker 3: and in the West Bank, but in the world. But
Speaker 3: all of them are equally wrong, im moral, and unjust,
Speaker 3: and we must be morally consistent about that. But brother
Speaker 3: Ben understands that, and so he makes that connection between
Speaker 3: anti racism on the one handed, critiques of militarism, whether
Speaker 3: military is used disproportionately against certain people, people of color.
Speaker 3: It's being to look at the reflection on the uses
Speaker 3: of the National Guard. And you know, in the last
Speaker 3: old sixty seventy years, most of the uses of the
Speaker 3: National Guard had to do with race. It had to
Speaker 3: do with black people, it had to do with brown people.
Speaker 3: That's not a coincident. The whole country went to a
Speaker 3: civil war, killed seven hundred thousand people over us, over
Speaker 3: black people. What you're gonna do with us, yes, sir,
Speaker 3: for me and enslavement bol Barrick, white supremacist slavery system,
Speaker 3: you see what I mean? So that we're gonna come
Speaker 3: to terms with that in a political, moral, and spiritually
Speaker 3: mature anner that is humanistic to the core. But it
Speaker 3: also it reminds me of sly Stone's first record he
Speaker 3: wrote with his family. He's played with his family, the
Speaker 3: Stewart four called on the Battlefield Walking in the Name
Speaker 3: of Jesus. Now he come out of the Church of
Speaker 3: God in Christ for Lao even though they're born in Texas,
Speaker 3: but he's on the battlefield.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Amen.
Speaker 3: Good for the kingdom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for the Kingdom. We rapping this together, struggle on
Speaker 1: the streets.
Speaker 2: How music impacts that, like the spirit is just moving us. Doc,
Speaker 2: So to Brother Ben again, if people should follow Ben
Speaker 2: Coin and the work that he's doing, the name of
Speaker 2: it is up in arms, and he's gonna spotlight in
Speaker 2: his words, the observe the absorb abserd and moral and
Speaker 2: wasteful pentagon spending that comes at the expense of housing, healthcare,
Speaker 2: and education for Americans.
Speaker 1: Brother Ben b I call them BC, Doc.
Speaker 2: I will Brother b Seed to know we with him
Speaker 2: all the way, all the way, all the way up
Speaker 2: unveiling at this Thursday at Union Station in or the
Speaker 2: Union Station area in District of Columbia. So if you've
Speaker 2: got friends or front of mees there, tell them to
Speaker 2: go and join him, and he will be again with
Speaker 2: some colonels, Doc, He's gonna be with some generals, you know,
Speaker 2: just veterans, war veterans in particular, because it's not just
Speaker 2: something veterans should be talking about, but it takes on
Speaker 2: a specific kind of meaning when you have war veterans
Speaker 2: standing up and saying, don't do this, don't don't, don't.
Speaker 1: Don't play these kind of games.
Speaker 3: That's exactly. And he's gonna have some war veterans who
Speaker 3: never joined the army of the United States. Some of
Speaker 3: us been at war for a long time. We are
Speaker 3: veterans on the battlefield in a war, but we didn't
Speaker 3: necessarily join the US army. Some did join the US
Speaker 3: army and still have a morality in terms of critique
Speaker 3: of US militarism and imperialism. But when you're we understand
Speaker 3: war in that broad sense, Oh, you got a whole
Speaker 3: lot of veterans. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2: That's a great, great point, Doc. You expanding that to
Speaker 2: people who are just believing in peace. Yeah, No, I love,
Speaker 2: I love I love the way you're expanding that. And
Speaker 2: I think brother Ben would feel the same way. So
Speaker 2: please please support and Cohen and others the organization or
Speaker 2: the movement. I would call it up in arms. He's
Speaker 2: launching it. I think he's gonna try to do a
Speaker 2: four year campaign, doc. Hopefully maybe even longer. Hopefully we
Speaker 2: might not need it in four years. I think that's
Speaker 2: what he's thinking. But this is not just a flash
Speaker 2: in the pan kind of thing. This is something that
Speaker 2: Ben Cohen has been working on for a very long time.
Speaker 2: And it just so happens that the No King's Day
Speaker 2: that's happening on Saturday of the fourteenth, which is Flag Day,
Speaker 2: I believe, and also the birthday of President Donald J.
Speaker 1: Trump.
Speaker 2: So there'll be people all over the country standing up
Speaker 2: and all of the confluence of everything that is happening
Speaker 2: from La to other parts of this country.
Speaker 1: It's a confluence.
Speaker 2: You know, none of these things were playing, but the
Speaker 2: spirit is working in many, many ways, Doctor West.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And the good news is we're gonna
Speaker 3: go down swinging. We're gonna go down fighting, We're gonna
Speaker 3: go down laughing and loving. We're gonna go down. Organizing,
Speaker 3: we're gonna go down, mobilizing. We're gonna go down demonstrate
Speaker 3: that nothing in the world can crush our spirit.
Speaker 1: Nothing at all.
Speaker 2: You know, Doc, yesterday we didn't get a chance to
Speaker 2: because the of the depth of a great slide stone.
Speaker 2: We pivoted right to that to lift him. And you
Speaker 2: share so many stories. So if any of you are
Speaker 2: listening today and you didn't get a chance to listen yesterday,
Speaker 2: please download the KBLA app. If you will or wherever
Speaker 2: you get your podcast, you can pick us up and
Speaker 2: make sure that you check out all the other wonderful
Speaker 2: shows on the network. Tavis Smiley and the crew celebrating
Speaker 2: that four year anniversary. Doc, you gonna be You're gonna
Speaker 2: have your face in the place. Make sure you sign up.
Speaker 2: It is free to attend, but you have to sign
Speaker 2: up and bring a gift card if you can, of
Speaker 2: any amount, because they want to be able to give
Speaker 2: those gift cards to the families impacted by the fire,
Speaker 2: by the Altadena families impacted by the fire. But Doc,
Speaker 2: you're going to be there in celebration, so yeah, let's
Speaker 2: pause and talk about that for a moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be a beautiful thing. Brother Tabas,
Speaker 3: of course, had a grand vision five years ago saying, look,
Speaker 3: we are going to create an institution, a black institution
Speaker 3: that's led with a moral vision on the one hand,
Speaker 3: but unbelievable efficiency in terms of management on the other.
Speaker 3: That's precisely what he's been able to do. So now
Speaker 3: four years later, the celebration sets in that KBLA fifteen eighty,
Speaker 3: Tabis Smiley is now soaring like an ego Frisgien We're
Speaker 3: glad to be a small part of it as well,
Speaker 3: no doubt about that. But at the same time, the
Speaker 3: important thing is that he keeps the ground. He keeps
Speaker 3: the focus on the ground every day people.
Speaker 1: Yeah he does.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the keys brother Tabs. Tabs got a whole
Speaker 3: lot of slice Stone in it.
Speaker 1: Yes, he does. I mean he's the one that broke
Speaker 1: the breaking news. He called me during the break.
Speaker 2: He's like Nina, Doctor West, gonna go. He listened, y'all
Speaker 2: got to talk about a brother slid Stone, and I'm
Speaker 2: glad that we had the opportunity to do so. He
Speaker 2: deserves that and so much more. And I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: gonna be many many tributes to him, to his family,
Speaker 2: to his body of work. By how blessed are our
Speaker 2: audience and our network, Doctor West, to have people like
Speaker 2: you and brother Tavis Moley, who brings so much texture
Speaker 2: and depth to what we talk about today. Doctor, You know,
Speaker 2: as we were so, I want to go back a
Speaker 2: little bit to some of the stuff we were talking
Speaker 2: about yesterday.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of people in our tube, as my.
Speaker 2: Grandson calls it, a channel, who they've built a real
Speaker 2: community there, and one brother who I think is either
Speaker 2: new or doesn't speak up as much was talking about
Speaker 2: just law.
Speaker 1: We were getting on that was a just law.
Speaker 2: And an unjust law, and I think it is very
Speaker 2: important for us to continue to tease that out.
Speaker 1: You and I both went immediately.
Speaker 2: To the letter from the Birmingham Jail that Doctor King
Speaker 2: wrote on April sixteenth, nineteen sixty three, to the Clergy,
Speaker 2: and so, Doc, I want you to go into that
Speaker 2: a bit. He covered a lot. He did cover the
Speaker 2: notion of just laws and unjust laws, and so I
Speaker 2: just want to share a portion of that and then
Speaker 2: your thoughts about how that is applicable to today. He said,
Speaker 2: the answer lies in the fact that there are two
Speaker 2: types of laws, and I'm skipping all the way down.
Speaker 2: I encourage people to revisit I revisited multiple times a
Speaker 2: year Doctor King's letter from the Birmingham Jail. He said
Speaker 2: that there are The answer lies in the fact that
Speaker 2: there are two types of laws.
Speaker 1: Just and unjust.
Speaker 2: I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws
Speaker 2: has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to
Speaker 2: obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to
Speaker 2: disobey unjust laws. I would agree with Saint Augustine that quote,
Speaker 2: an unjust.
Speaker 1: Law is no law at all end quote.
Speaker 2: So doctor King gets credit for that, and unjust laws
Speaker 2: no law at all.
Speaker 1: But he is pulling.
Speaker 2: From the body of work of Saint august Stine. Doc
Speaker 2: I can go further. I'm gonna go further on the other.
Speaker 1: Side, but you just just take it take it from here.
Speaker 3: Well, he's speaking out of a great tradition of both
Speaker 3: the natural law system and always ensuring that laws have
Speaker 3: to have a moral foundation. I mean, people stop at
Speaker 3: the red light, that's a just law. If only black
Speaker 3: folk had to stop at the red life, that's not
Speaker 3: a just law. Laws can contribute to people flowering and flourishing.
Speaker 3: But he goes on to say in that same section,
Speaker 3: an unjust law is a law that what violates the
Speaker 3: sanctity of human personality. It truncates the capacity of people
Speaker 3: to grow and mature and flower and flourish. And in
Speaker 3: a society in which certain groups of people have, by
Speaker 3: institutional design, are not able to have their sacred human
Speaker 3: personality flower and flourish, it is unjust. An unjust law
Speaker 3: is if Jamal gets caught with a crackbag and goes
Speaker 3: to jail for ten years, and little Johnny McGillicuddy gets
Speaker 3: caught with another version of crack and he only gets
Speaker 3: padded on the back end probation. That's an unjust law.
Speaker 3: Slavery Black folk enslave, that's un just. White folks ain't
Speaker 3: in slave slavery in general.
Speaker 1: In wrong.
Speaker 3: So Martin is saying, don't invoke the law to me.
Speaker 3: You talking about law and order is law and order
Speaker 3: for you and your people and your neighborhood in your
Speaker 3: side of town. That's what law and order really means.
Speaker 3: The law ain't got nothing to do with morality. Order
Speaker 3: ain't got nothing to do with justice. Don't talk about
Speaker 3: law and order to me when I know it's just
Speaker 3: for you and your friends. That's Martin in jail. He's
Speaker 3: in jail dealing with an unjust legal system in jim Crow, Alabama.
Speaker 3: That's what slid Stone's tradition flows from. And he ain't loan.
Speaker 3: Sam Cook and Nina Simone and the others are with
Speaker 3: him as well. That's what Sli's talking about. You see.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: That's it, And just so people pick up on the
Speaker 2: premise in the chat, one of our viewers was basically
Speaker 2: saying what is happening in a with the National Guard
Speaker 2: and all the folks coming in, Hey, these people broke
Speaker 2: the law. So that is why we're picking up on
Speaker 2: what is just laws and unjust laws. You're listening to
Speaker 2: doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner on Truth Time. When
Speaker 2: we come forward, we will continue this riveting conversation. Yes
Speaker 2: you are, Yes we are, but that we're doing sort
Speaker 2: of a recap, if you will, adding on some of
Speaker 2: the new dynamics that are happening right now today, the
Speaker 2: lawsuit that is happening rightfully, So I believe that Governor
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom is right to sue. We talked a little
Speaker 2: bit Doc about we continue to talk about the courts,
Speaker 2: and how I love when you said if the courts
Speaker 2: are involved, if courts are seen as a last resort,
Speaker 2: we're already kind of in trouble.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I mean, it's nice for the courts
Speaker 3: to kick in. Yeah, but you can't rely on the
Speaker 3: do gullible. They're too unreliable and they take too long. Ye,
Speaker 3: this particular suit that California is putting forward against Trump
Speaker 3: of federalizing the National Guard and even thinking about bringing
Speaker 3: in the marines that the court may not even hear
Speaker 3: that thing for weeks and months. This is happening right
Speaker 3: now and company know that. They know that that they
Speaker 3: seize the moment and then the courts come out down
Speaker 3: the road and the damage has already been done.
Speaker 1: In other words, even if we get it a good outcome.
Speaker 3: Yeah so, but so I'm not against the courts. I
Speaker 3: want the courts to do all they can. I want
Speaker 3: them to be fair and just, no doubt about about that.
Speaker 3: We got a long history of black folk not being
Speaker 3: treated fairly and being unjustly arrested and convicted, the double
Speaker 3: standard that we know operation for the last two hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty years in this country. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: we just we've never been able to just rely on
Speaker 3: the court. No, no, We've got to be strong with ourselves,
Speaker 3: our institutions, our movements, our communities, our traditions.
Speaker 2: True that doctor struggle in the streets, that's what we're
Speaker 2: talking about, going back to the whole notion of just
Speaker 2: laws and unjust laws. And I promise the people who
Speaker 2: are on the tube, Dr West and I are gonna
Speaker 2: get to you. Doctor King goes on and say, now,
Speaker 2: what is the difference between the two. How does one
Speaker 2: determine whether a law is just or unjust? And doctor West,
Speaker 2: you put some twenty first century on that a just
Speaker 2: law is a man made cold that squares with the
Speaker 2: moral law or the law God.
Speaker 1: So the two go together.
Speaker 2: They're not diametrically opposed, is what he's saying. An unjust
Speaker 2: law is a cold that is out of harmony with
Speaker 2: moral law.
Speaker 3: Moral, well, you've got if you don't have moral grounds
Speaker 3: for your law, it's not law. It's gangsterized power and
Speaker 3: raw might. And law has been used to rationalize raw
Speaker 3: might and gangsterize power. That slavery. That's Jim Crowley's whole
Speaker 3: host of laws now just hear but around the world.
Speaker 3: And so when people invoke law, you got to say yourself,
Speaker 3: just like Jesus might say, you against the law to
Speaker 3: be healing somebody on the Sabbath, that law don't mean
Speaker 3: nothing to me. I'm concerned about the quality of life
Speaker 3: of this man or woman that I'm healing. The law
Speaker 3: is subordinate to something greater than itself, a morality or
Speaker 3: some kind of sense of divinity that's tied to justice.
Speaker 3: You see, that's the kind of issue that we're dealing
Speaker 3: with right now in the streets in la historically in
Speaker 3: the history of this country, with Jim and Jane Crow
Speaker 3: and slavery and the whole host of other laws.
Speaker 2: Heymen, Doc, and I'm gonna jump straight to one of
Speaker 2: our viewers, Doctor Octavia Morris. Immigration fight isn't my problem
Speaker 2: as a Black American. Immigration fight is not my problem
Speaker 2: as a Black American. So as we're talking about laws,
Speaker 2: unjust laws, how they square up, I want doctor Octavia
Speaker 2: Morris to picture and God forbid, her neighbor's house on fire.
Speaker 1: At some point.
Speaker 2: She has to care about her neighbor's house being on fire. Doc,
Speaker 2: you know where I'm going with this, because if the
Speaker 2: fire is not put out, it could eventually come to
Speaker 2: her house. Now directly, she may not. And I'm just
Speaker 2: putting her in a category with anybody else because we
Speaker 2: hear this often, that we wrestle with this, because we
Speaker 2: understand where black people are coming from. We are not
Speaker 2: oblivious to the pain that black people face in this
Speaker 2: country and how others, not all, but far too many
Speaker 2: of the others of other groups in this nation don't
Speaker 2: attend to our pain. But we are the first ones
Speaker 2: to attend to other people's pain.
Speaker 1: I got it. But if your neighbor house is on fire.
Speaker 2: Eventually, if you don't see that morally as your problem
Speaker 2: just because it's your neighbor's house, eventually, for self interested reasons, Doc,
Speaker 2: it becomes your problem if that fire jumps from your
Speaker 2: neighbor's house to your house. So let me frame this
Speaker 2: immigration fight. Isn't my problem as a black American, DOC,
Speaker 2: take it away. I hope my analogy makes sense.
Speaker 3: It makes a whole lot of sense. And I understand
Speaker 3: what my dear sisters saying. She might be saying that, well,
Speaker 3: it's not my major problem. I've got a whole host
Speaker 3: of trials and tribulations I'm trying to deal with that
Speaker 3: doesn't have anything to do with immigration. We understand that.
Speaker 3: But the question becomes in, well, what about morality or
Speaker 3: do you you have an interest in being a moral
Speaker 3: human being? You're concerned about other people suffering even though
Speaker 3: it may not directly affect you at the moment. And
Speaker 3: so when we say my problem with who is the mind?
Speaker 3: Who is the me? What kind of person are you
Speaker 3: choosing to be? Now? We have to also keep in
Speaker 3: mind and when we talk about immigrants, immigrants come in
Speaker 3: a lot of different colors. You see, you might have
Speaker 3: close friends who are from Haiti. Well, they not necessarily
Speaker 3: focusing right now on the Haitians the way they're focusing
Speaker 3: on the Mexicans, but it's still affecting the Haitians. You
Speaker 3: might have friends from Jamaica. You might have cousins who's
Speaker 3: married from folks from Ethiopia. So it is connected to
Speaker 3: you in a broader sense. But the most important thing
Speaker 3: is and I tell my dear sister, you are a
Speaker 3: moral and spiritual being, not just a rational calculator of
Speaker 3: your interests. And that's the tradition that produced you. My
Speaker 3: dear sister as so she's a black sister. Now that
Speaker 3: your mom and your daddy and your church mos synagogue,
Speaker 3: your music has always been concerned about your morality and spirituality,
Speaker 3: not just your rationality in terms of you calculating your
Speaker 3: personal interests. That we're deeper than just rational calculators, as
Speaker 3: moral and spiritual human beings. Were concerned about other people suffering.
Speaker 3: People say, guys, is not my problem. I can't say
Speaker 3: a word. Twenty thousand babies have been murdered. You're not
Speaker 3: concerned about twenty thousand babies now because that ain't affecting me.
Speaker 3: You need to check yourself morally and spiritually because if
Speaker 3: it was your baby, would you want somebody to be
Speaker 3: concerned about you and your baby? Of course you would.
Speaker 3: That's the golden.
Speaker 1: Rule, that part Doc all day long.
Speaker 2: And I'm happy that doctor Morris puts that in here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, acknowledging, and we respect our sister wrestling with this,
Speaker 3: but all of us have to come to terms with
Speaker 3: our moral and spiritual status.
Speaker 1: We do, and it's hard. You know.
Speaker 2: I talk to black people all the time, and it's
Speaker 2: not that they begrudge helping other people I'm talking about
Speaker 2: as collectively as much as they begrudge the fact that
Speaker 2: many of the people in these groups are never there
Speaker 2: or rarely there when the suffering is about Black Americans
Speaker 2: who are sending something slave people.
Speaker 1: And that's true too, that marutiple things can be true
Speaker 1: at once.
Speaker 3: You don't have to be like.
Speaker 1: True that. We don't have to be so I we
Speaker 1: got it, we get it, we get it, we get it,
Speaker 1: we get it.
Speaker 2: Daniel Brother, Daniel's in the house, Samir Kirn, Peace and Grace,
Speaker 2: Senator Turner, and doctor West.
Speaker 1: Today is a good day to stay blessed. Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: Every day is a good day to stay blessed. Thank
Speaker 2: you for that, Brother Daniel. Blessed Peacemaker in the house.
Speaker 2: Much love from your Truth Time family in East Africa
Speaker 2: standing in prayer with all our la loved ones.
Speaker 1: Peace is ours to make. I love that peace is ours.
Speaker 3: To make beautiful.
Speaker 2: Wow, blessed peace Maker. That's it, Peace is ours to make.
Speaker 2: Got Timothy Jamison. The change of guard is currently taking place.
Speaker 2: Enjoy your day and Timothy to put a green heart
Speaker 2: up in there.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm bobbing with you. Jay Lily, Happy anniversary,
Speaker 1: brother Tavis.
Speaker 2: Exclamation point. We're proud of what you've done with black
Speaker 2: media and political organization. We rocking with you on that, sister,
Speaker 2: jay Lily or Jay Lily, I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: sister brother, but jay Lily, we're walking with that. You're
Speaker 2: listening to Truth Time without the Cornell West and Nina Turner.
Speaker 2: When we come forward, we'll continue the conversation from the
Speaker 2: chat here. You are so glad that you are not
Speaker 2: going back to tune. We got Blessed Peacemaker again. Hey,
Speaker 2: let's remember that we just passed pentecost Doctor West and
Speaker 2: Senator Turner. Can we talk about the spirit driving racial
Speaker 2: unity and love from Azusa Street.
Speaker 3: Oh? He talking about those visionary Baptists from Tennessee that
Speaker 3: made their way to Los Angeles and initiated a whole
Speaker 3: new spiritual awakening and movement of Pentecostalism that would become
Speaker 3: the fastest growing denomination in the twentieth and twenty first century.
Speaker 3: Very very black centered love sentered black and white, and
Speaker 3: red and yellow and indigenous folk, all of them getting
Speaker 3: the spirit at the same time. So it was thoroughly
Speaker 3: multi racial, morticultural, integrated across the board. And yet in
Speaker 3: so many ways it was a stress on the third
Speaker 3: person of the Trinity. It was on Holy Spirit. Its
Speaker 3: focused on God and Jesus, but it was spirit feel
Speaker 3: spirits centered. And it does go back to the Book
Speaker 3: of Acts when the spirit hit and what did they do?
Speaker 3: They loved each other, they held all things in common.
Speaker 3: They called them kind of crypto proto communism, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't it is It was a way of life. It
Speaker 3: was deeper than a religion. It was a motive being
Speaker 3: in the world with love overflowed, joy overflowed. You wanted
Speaker 3: to share everything you had inside of you and outside
Speaker 3: of you with others. That was pentic costs and penticost
Speaker 3: to Liza Producer down Church of God in Christ, go
Speaker 3: Jaed and come find me, darg Blake. We can go
Speaker 3: on and on. Ejeene Rivers. We talked about some Reverend
Speaker 3: Herbert Daltrey. We got some deep Pennycostan. I'm a I'm
Speaker 3: a Baptist, so you know I'm with my Costa brothers
Speaker 3: and sister Baptists. But we own the same love train.
Speaker 1: Hey man, I'm a Bapti Costal doc.
Speaker 2: Thank you, bless the peacemaker. The peacemaker be on it
Speaker 2: for sure, Free World Press. Can Clarence Thomas ever wake up?
Speaker 3: God? Good question?
Speaker 1: That is a good question.
Speaker 3: That is Dick, You'll raise the same question. Can't buy bones?
Speaker 1: I live live again?
Speaker 3: Well, we brother Tavers, come out of the rich Pentacot traditions.
Speaker 3: It's hard to find somebody deeper coming out of that tradition. Lord,
Speaker 3: have mercy. You almost got to go to Jodson. No,
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, Tavis and all
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 2: We have ea since the Turner black folks living next
Speaker 2: door to our Hispanic neighbors in a tent.
Speaker 1: My house burned down thirty years ago. I get it.
Speaker 2: I think, Ea, you missing the point that doctor West
Speaker 2: and I were were making here. I'm trying to were
Speaker 2: trying our best to help people see the point that
Speaker 2: we have a moral obligation to care. And definitely my
Speaker 2: heart goes out to you know, a physical house burned down.
Speaker 2: You know, our heart goes out to that kind of suffering,
Speaker 2: and we know the fires and out the Dina which
Speaker 2: Brother Tavis has dedicated this entire network dealing with that
Speaker 2: kind of pain and seeing that the response or lack
Speaker 2: of response from government itself was inadequate, and it was inadequate.
Speaker 1: Per usual in the black community. So definitely we get it.
Speaker 2: And people have lost so much over generations, not just
Speaker 2: right now, but over generations.
Speaker 1: So we got it. And then b bail of bad
Speaker 1: dog bullies is not just about what they say, It's
Speaker 1: about what we stop paying attention to.
Speaker 2: And that is true too. We have an obligation to
Speaker 2: pay attention. What's that song a doctor might be part
Speaker 2: of scripture? Whatsoever things are good? Whatsoever things are just,
Speaker 2: you know, think on those things. And so we got
Speaker 2: to do all of those things.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Doctor Cornell wests and need to turn
Speaker 1: her own truth time.
Speaker 2: When we come forward in our final moments, we'll continue
Speaker 2: talking about the struggle.
Speaker 1: In the streets.
Speaker 2: You are, yes, we are doc struggle in the streets.
Speaker 2: This has been really good. I mean, our chat is
Speaker 2: still going strong.
Speaker 1: So many thoughtful folks and so many people.
Speaker 2: Raising questions and issues that we have to continue wrestling with.
Speaker 1: And we don't run from wrestling with those things.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you see, I think it's very important for
Speaker 3: people to keep in mind. And when people hit the streets,
Speaker 3: they're not just focusing on laws, They're focusing on the
Speaker 3: spirit and tone and moral character of certain words and actions.
Speaker 3: You see, this is not a legalistic thing. You see,
Speaker 3: when people are being mistreated, when people's humanity is being violated,
Speaker 3: it's not just a matter of law. It's a matter
Speaker 3: of your moral stands. You see. So some of the
Speaker 3: people in the in the streets. Of course, they might
Speaker 3: disagree about how you treat undocumented, how you treat documented
Speaker 3: that those are all issues of policy and so forth.
Speaker 3: You can debate about that. But when you start mistreating
Speaker 3: people at the deepest level of their humanity. It ain't
Speaker 3: a question in law. That's the reason why I would
Speaker 3: be there. I ain't there because I agree with the
Speaker 3: policies stance of everybody in the street, No, not at all.
Speaker 3: But I'm there because I know that immigrant brothers, sisters
Speaker 3: of human beings made in the image and likeness of
Speaker 3: a loving God, and they have a sanctity and a
Speaker 3: dignity that the world didn't give them in the world
Speaker 3: can't take away. And you got to take a stand
Speaker 3: in that regard. And you can have the other debates
Speaker 3: later on, but it's clear of what's coming out of
Speaker 3: this White House is this notion of cruelty and strategy
Speaker 3: and empathy as enemy that spiritually.
Speaker 2: Sacrilegious, and no doubt about that, Doc, and people are
Speaker 2: picking up on those vibes. And so for every action
Speaker 2: we learned in our science class, for every action, there's
Speaker 2: an opposite and equal reaction, and that is what is
Speaker 2: happening right now in our country. The President, his administration
Speaker 2: and manipulating a whole lot. That doesn't mean doctor right. Look,
Speaker 2: I don't agree with everybody that may be out there
Speaker 2: on the immigration policies of this country.
Speaker 1: What I do know is should be done in a
Speaker 1: humane way.
Speaker 2: That I do know. I have no fear of being
Speaker 2: contradicted on that. What is fair.
Speaker 1: Matching people up like that is not fair.
Speaker 2: Causing people to have fight or fight you know, in
Speaker 2: their bodies, their heart, their soul, their minds.
Speaker 1: None of that stuff is right. There's a way to
Speaker 1: do things.
Speaker 2: My grandmothers always say proper There's a way to properly
Speaker 2: do things. And this administration is stoken fear of the other.
Speaker 2: They have the American people right where they want them,
Speaker 2: and when we buy into this, even in our subconscious,
Speaker 2: people are starting to buy into President Trump's and his
Speaker 2: administration's rhetoric that every single immigrant, or at least the
Speaker 2: majority of them, are somehow more criminal than anybody else,
Speaker 2: which is not the truth. We do have a right
Speaker 2: to protect our borders. We do have a right to
Speaker 2: have rules about how people come in here. And it
Speaker 2: has been a failure of administrations and Congresses to get
Speaker 2: this straight on.
Speaker 1: How are we doing this? Have not gotten this straight.
Speaker 2: And the Democratic certainly the Trump administration, doctors responsible for
Speaker 2: what they're doing right now in real time, in this moment,
Speaker 2: and the Democratic Party bears responsibility for us having a
Speaker 2: President Donald J.
Speaker 1: Trump two point zero.
Speaker 2: Although they didn't do much better, they just wasn't out
Speaker 2: here doing it the way the President Trump is doing it.
Speaker 2: But make no mistake, under President Biden, under President Obama,
Speaker 2: some similar things were happening, just was not happening in
Speaker 2: our face. You have been listening to Truth Time with
Speaker 2: doctor Cordon Was and Nina Turner. We want you to
Speaker 2: live on purpose, live your purpose, and above all, know
Speaker 2: that titles are good and purpose is better.
Speaker 1: Until next time,