Speaker 1: Joining us now is lou Belosa. He's a retired ATF
Speaker 1: special agent and he is a co author of a
Speaker 1: book about a guy that he worked with on many
Speaker 1: very dangerous situations as an informant against drug cartels, biker gangs,
Speaker 1: even the Gambino family. The name of the book is
Speaker 1: Ray Kahn, The Betrayal of an Informant, and so we
Speaker 1: talked to him about what life was like inside the
Speaker 1: ATF and some of these cases, what that was like.
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us, Loue.
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's an honor to be here.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I just want to be upfront about
Speaker 1: it where I'm coming from, and of course my audience
Speaker 1: knows that I don't think there's any constitutional authority for
Speaker 1: the ATF to start with. But having said that, I
Speaker 1: wanted to know what it was like on the inside,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like you've got an amazing story. They
Speaker 1: came after the informant that you used for quite some time,
Speaker 1: and they came after you as well, but you were exonerated,
Speaker 1: and we're interested to hear the story about what happened
Speaker 1: to the informant and what the two of you were
Speaker 1: doing in terms of the investigations of these crime families.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your history there
Speaker 1: at the ATF. You were there for twenty five years, I.
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, twenty six, you know, And I'd just like
Speaker 2: to start out by saying, my whole life very pro
Speaker 2: Second Amendment. All the guys I worked with at ATF
Speaker 2: very pro Second Amendment, you know, and we enforce the
Speaker 2: federal gun laws, and there is a need for federal
Speaker 2: gun laws. Every law abiding citizen in this country should
Speaker 2: have a gun, know how to use it and protect themselves.
Speaker 2: But let's just be honest, let's face facts. There is
Speaker 2: a small percentage of people here in this country who
Speaker 2: should not possess firemms. And that is the reason why
Speaker 2: ATF exists. Previously convicted felons, okay, people who've been adjudicated
Speaker 2: mentally deficient illegal aliens, right, it's all the eighteen United
Speaker 2: States Code nine twenty two G that whole list of
Speaker 2: people who should not possess flight rooms. And that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's basically why ATF exists, right, because they make everyone
Speaker 2: else look bad because they're trigger pollyers and they're out
Speaker 2: there doing bad things. So you know, basically our job
Speaker 2: is to enforce the federal farms and explosives laws, and
Speaker 2: that puts you in front of some bad people when
Speaker 2: you live in that world, those are the ones who
Speaker 2: are out there on the streets, victimizing all the good
Speaker 2: people and doing bad things with guns. And you know,
Speaker 2: we found, I found personally that the best way to
Speaker 2: not only identify, but to stop that very small percentage
Speaker 2: those people was through undercover infiltration. What better way, you know,
Speaker 2: to gather real time intelligence and real time evidence than
Speaker 2: being able to insert your own asset right into the
Speaker 2: middle of these gangs, these cartels, right these criminal organizations,
Speaker 2: and that was that was the path that I chose.
Speaker 2: Working undercover, I was and that's one of the.
Speaker 1: Things that when I looked at the story, the general
Speaker 1: description of ray Kan, that was what really kind of
Speaker 1: startled me, because usually you see informants or somebody who
Speaker 1: already exists in that world. Uh, they've been a criminal
Speaker 1: in that world for a long time. But you got
Speaker 1: a guy who is basically a gas station owner or employee,
Speaker 1: and he had never had a criminal record, never been
Speaker 1: involved in any of that stuff. That's the interesting thing,
Speaker 1: I think is how he could get involved in that world.
Speaker 2: This was a guy who had never you know, never
Speaker 2: shot a gun and didn't know what in the bullet
Speaker 2: came out of a gun. He had never never done
Speaker 2: any drugs, never been in that world. Not a gangster
Speaker 2: like you said, basically a seven to eleven owner who
Speaker 2: made a silly mistake. He walked into one of my
Speaker 2: undercover operations and he bought a bunch of untaxed cigarettes,
Speaker 2: which is a federal violation, not a violation that you know,
Speaker 2: we go after that. The United States Attorney's Office really
Speaker 2: goes after vehemently or cares about. But he loaded these
Speaker 2: all these untaxed cigarettes into a brand new Cadillac Escalade
Speaker 2: that we wanted because we when we see as a
Speaker 2: conveyance that's used in smuggling, we're allowed to use it
Speaker 2: for our own purposes. And you know, as awful as
Speaker 2: that sounds, we found out that he was also in
Speaker 2: the country illegally, so he was arrested, charged, We seized
Speaker 2: his vehicle, and he was just set up for deportation.
Speaker 2: And his lawyer came to me and said, man, if
Speaker 2: you can do anything to keep Ray in this country,
Speaker 2: you know he has children here, he'll be the best
Speaker 2: informat you've ever had. And you know, I was so skeptical.
Speaker 2: I said, you know, what is this. This guy's not
Speaker 2: in my world. How's he going to help? And the lawyer,
Speaker 2: who I knew he was convincing, he said, just trust me.
Speaker 2: So I did. I took a leap of faith, and
Speaker 2: we did all the necessary paperwork and aldy to get
Speaker 2: his prosecution deferred, which no one cared about anyway with
Speaker 2: untaxed cigarettes, and we got his deportation stayed, and we
Speaker 2: parole essentially parolled him into this country. And I didn't
Speaker 2: know what to expect. I brought him into my next
Speaker 2: undercover operation, and let me tell you, he just hit
Speaker 2: the ground running and he absolutely made He pretty much
Speaker 2: made the second half of my career.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: His uncanny ability to get in with these gangsters who
Speaker 2: were putting guns and dangerous drugs on the street and
Speaker 2: bring them to me, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: So what was it about him? I mean, did you
Speaker 1: just have a way that he could read people and
Speaker 1: have a conversation with him? What was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? If you know, even his English is not that great, Yes,
Speaker 2: he has a way about him. You know when you
Speaker 2: walk in his store, he just has a way, a
Speaker 2: little bit pushy, and he knows how to connect with people.
Speaker 2: That's his gift. And he could he could connect with
Speaker 2: these gangsters and he could weave his way in and
Speaker 2: out and find out, you know, who was doing what
Speaker 2: and who would be the best targets to bring to me.
Speaker 2: And he, you know, he could get these guys. And
Speaker 2: that's basically undercover work, right to make people want to
Speaker 2: be a part of your hustle. That's the essence of
Speaker 2: undercover work. If I can, you know, it's not trying
Speaker 2: to become someone else's it's trying to sell yourself and
Speaker 2: get the bad guys to want it, to want to
Speaker 2: be a part of what you're doing, your hustle. And
Speaker 2: that's exactly what he did. And he would tell them
Speaker 2: about us, bring them to us, and then we would
Speaker 2: take over from there. And we're talking about high level
Speaker 2: cartel members, high level street gang members.
Speaker 1: And what was his hustle that they were thinking they
Speaker 1: were going to join into.
Speaker 2: I mean, so at this yeah, at this point, the
Speaker 2: operations he was helping us with were storefront operations. These
Speaker 2: were operations where we would set up pony businesses in
Speaker 2: parts of America where there was super high gun crime violence,
Speaker 2: and we would use these stats to kind of justify
Speaker 2: setting up a business that was owned and operated by
Speaker 2: the government, staffed by undercover agents, and Ray would bring
Speaker 2: these people to us. You know, we would kind of
Speaker 2: put out that spider web and we would end up
Speaker 2: these are the people who are putting illegal guns on
Speaker 2: the streets. These are the people who were putting dangerous
Speaker 2: drugs on the streets.
Speaker 1: Now what do they think they were going to get
Speaker 1: from these businesses that you set up? I mean what
Speaker 1: type of businesses would you set up? And what were
Speaker 1: they thinking they were going to get a part of
Speaker 1: part of.
Speaker 2: I mean, we covered the whole spectrum, from tattoo parlors
Speaker 2: to headshops, to military surplus stores with attached shooting ranges,
Speaker 2: to international freight forwarding businesses on the court. And you know,
Speaker 2: we would you would never walk into these places and
Speaker 2: think that, you know, it was a law enforcement setup.
Speaker 2: They were so well done and well stocked, and when
Speaker 2: these bad guys would see, you know, our model was
Speaker 2: ninety percent of our business is one hundred percent legitimate.
Speaker 2: I mean, we were actually running these businesses. But when
Speaker 2: they saw what our side hustle was in my side.
Speaker 2: Hustle was always that I bought the illegal guns off
Speaker 2: the street and I trafficked them up to New York
Speaker 2: and sold them for incredible profits. Which really happens, right,
Speaker 2: you know, down down here in the South liam in Georgia.
Speaker 2: You know, you can buy a one hundred dollars loss
Speaker 2: nine millimeter and you can sell it on the streets
Speaker 2: of Brooklyn for twenty five hundred, three thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Wowow.
Speaker 2: And it's a business, you know, it's a criminal enterprise,
Speaker 2: and it happens. And we were proporting ourselves to be
Speaker 2: gun traffics.
Speaker 1: Wow. I guess that's prohibition markup. That's that's there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: eminated ago sky high, you know, And we've always said.
Speaker 2: That's what these that's what these strict state young laws,
Speaker 2: that's what they do. They create a black market for weapons.
Speaker 1: And for tobacco as well. They sell. Uh, they've got
Speaker 1: such high tobacco price taxes in New York that people
Speaker 1: are selling individual cigarettes. I think they call them Lucy's
Speaker 1: or something like that.
Speaker 2: Right, let me tell you, the state of New York
Speaker 2: has created an entire black market tobacco. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, that's amazing. So talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: some of the gangs that you guys are involved in.
Speaker 1: You had biker gangs, you had cartels, you had traditional
Speaker 1: mafia family that were there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yea, by far, the cartels were the
Speaker 2: main ones. I don't know if people realize that the
Speaker 2: cartels for several decades now, the cartels are embedded in
Speaker 2: every state in this country. Even when you go into
Speaker 2: these rural towns up in the mountains, the cartels are there.
Speaker 2: They are now they totally control the drug trade in America,
Speaker 2: from pharmaceutical from the illegal pharmaceuticals, the fentanyl, you know,
Speaker 2: to the traditional heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine. The cartels are controlling everything,
Speaker 2: and you know that's who we really you know, we
Speaker 2: were there for guns, but we ended up dealing with
Speaker 2: so many cartels because you know, when we did deal
Speaker 2: with the narcotics, we were dealing with large amounts. You know,
Speaker 2: we weren't buying a balls.
Speaker 1: Was the d A a part of this as well?
Speaker 1: Or did you eventually bring them? Okay, so you guys
Speaker 1: are just doing this for the guns only.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the guns, but you know the gun and
Speaker 2: drug world, you know, does DEA buy a lot of
Speaker 2: guns as well, Yes they do. Do they make gun
Speaker 2: cases as well, Yes they do. It's and you know,
Speaker 2: we have kind of a it's an unspoken agreement between
Speaker 2: HF and de A because those worlds coexist where you
Speaker 2: have a lot of drugs, you have a lot of
Speaker 2: guns and vice versa. You know, guns are are the
Speaker 2: tools of the trade for the for the drug world,
Speaker 2: and so it's impossible that there's not you know, kind
Speaker 2: of a cross, kind of a mixing when when you're
Speaker 2: working those So they would bring in cartel guys to me, uh,
Speaker 2: we would buy some drugs from them, and when they
Speaker 2: saw our hustle with the guns, they would they would say, well, listen,
Speaker 2: if you're into guns, you know, we shipments of AR
Speaker 2: fifteen's we're sending to South America. We'll just we'll sell
Speaker 2: them to you here. And next thing we know, we're
Speaker 2: buying guns off these cartel guys as well.
Speaker 1: Wow. So this sounds like everything is working fine according
Speaker 1: to what the ATF one side of this. But then
Speaker 1: something happened and they came after you as well, didn't
Speaker 1: they tell us little bit about that. They investigated you
Speaker 1: and you were cleared of all charges, But what was
Speaker 1: the reason that they gave and what do you think
Speaker 1: was the real reason behind it?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a long one, but I'll give you a
Speaker 2: reader's digest version. I worked on the cover probably for
Speaker 2: too long. It's one of those one of those aspects
Speaker 2: you know less than one percent of law enforcement actually
Speaker 2: works under cover, and when you do it, it's probably best,
Speaker 2: I would say, now looking back on my career, to
Speaker 2: maybe do it for seven or eight years and get out.
Speaker 2: I did it for twenty and I was doing these deep,
Speaker 2: deeply embedded, long term cover operations, and you know, it's
Speaker 2: a gray area. After a while, you start believing it
Speaker 2: in your own in your own bull and it's hard
Speaker 2: to turn it on and off, and you know you're
Speaker 2: surrounded by bad behavior. You're living, you live in that
Speaker 2: gray area, and you know eventually it gets to you
Speaker 2: and that it's a blurred line between who you really
Speaker 2: are and you're you know, who you're portraying yourself to be.
Speaker 2: I went years and years and years without ever carrying
Speaker 2: a badge. You're kind of you even distance yourself from
Speaker 2: from the whole law enforcement community when you're deep undercover,
Speaker 2: and you know, for me that led to that led
Speaker 2: to some personal bad behavior that led to excessive drinking,
Speaker 2: and it led to infidelity. And you know, unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 2: for me, it was with a federal prosecutor and she
Speaker 2: was working on some of these cases. And you know,
Speaker 2: obviously that's that's where my trouble started and when they
Speaker 2: they came after me for that. But the real reason
Speaker 2: was the United States Attorney's Office at the time was
Speaker 2: not liking the trying to word this carefully, they weren't
Speaker 2: liking the racial makeup of the defendants in this operation
Speaker 2: I was working on, which to me was utterly ridiculous
Speaker 2: because you know, if you tell me to work on
Speaker 2: an outlaw biker gang, right, if they're committing violations of
Speaker 2: federal fire laws, and I go after the Hell's Angels,
Speaker 2: if I'm successful, I'm going to have fifty white defendants
Speaker 2: and nobody complains about.
Speaker 1: That, all right.
Speaker 2: This was the case was being worked in an urban environment, right,
Speaker 2: so the victims of this community are going to be black, right,
Speaker 2: the perpetrators are black. And it would would have been
Speaker 2: the same if it was a Hispanic community.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: So, because you know that was and this was a
Speaker 2: US attorney at the time, who had been appointed under
Speaker 2: the Obama administration, who seemed to care more about instead
Speaker 2: of fighting crime, you know, the racial inequities. And again
Speaker 2: I've locked up more white guys than any other agent probably,
Speaker 2: but this particular case, he didn't like the racial makeup
Speaker 2: of the defendants. He had even asked me about it.
Speaker 2: And you know that that, in my opinion, is the
Speaker 2: real reason that they came after us. And and you know, eventually,
Speaker 2: as you said, you know, the OIG did a two
Speaker 2: year investigation, they put more, they put more effort into
Speaker 2: this than they do a homicide and came up with
Speaker 2: absolutely nothing and you know, no findings against me. But
Speaker 2: it essentially ruined my undercovered career, which probably was a
Speaker 2: blessing because it was time to stop.
Speaker 1: So because they're coming after you, that that kind of
Speaker 1: exposed what was happening. Is is that why it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was invisible for my whole career,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, now it's it's on the
Speaker 2: internet in the newspapers.
Speaker 1: So now you're a victim of the de I police exactly.
Speaker 1: And so then uh that you got cleared with all this,
Speaker 1: and so then your book is about the betrayal of
Speaker 1: your informant, Ray Khan. What happened with that? What happened
Speaker 1: with Ray?
Speaker 2: All right? So uh yeah, and I don't I don't
Speaker 2: portray Ray as an angel, right, we don't find our
Speaker 2: informants in church. Uh. But you know, as as a
Speaker 2: law enforcement officer, you have to look at what what's
Speaker 2: the greater good for the community you're trying to protect.
Speaker 2: And you know Ray and his entire crew there that
Speaker 2: that that culture of the seven eleven owners and all that.
Speaker 2: You know, they're always looking for ways to get around
Speaker 2: the taxes and all that. That's that's their culture.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean everybody is looking for around absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's tax avoidance, which is part of the game, but
Speaker 1: there's tax evasion, which is again, you know, the thing
Speaker 1: they come after you for. But when you look at that,
Speaker 1: your case kind of reminds me of Joe Banister. I've
Speaker 1: interviewed many times. He was a criminal investigator for the
Speaker 1: I R. S. And he asked some questions about some
Speaker 1: of the tax code and he got on their bad side.
Speaker 1: They came after him and he was exonerated. But still,
Speaker 1: you know, it's that type of thing when you look
Speaker 1: at the institution. It can be something that's kind of
Speaker 1: a side issue or a minor issue, as it was
Speaker 1: with you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, so they had come after Ray unbeknownst to me
Speaker 2: while we were working, you know, they just and it
Speaker 2: was actually the Department of Revenue here in Georgia that
Speaker 2: that just you know, Ray was for whatever reason, they
Speaker 2: were actually helping us with these operations and behind our backs,
Speaker 2: they were working cases on Ray again for silly, silly
Speaker 2: you know, things that really this guy's bringing in danger drugs.
Speaker 2: He's bringing in cartel members, machine guns, sought off shotguns.
Speaker 2: You know, as a law enforcement officer, I don't care
Speaker 2: if he's not paying taxes on the honey buns he's
Speaker 2: selling at his seven to eleven, Right, you have to
Speaker 2: look at what's important. And so he was actually arrested
Speaker 2: a few times during these operations and I had to,
Speaker 2: you know, get him out. And but once I got
Speaker 2: jammed up and I could no longer protect him, they
Speaker 2: really went after and I mean, it's a crazy story,
Speaker 2: but as soon as I got jammed up, he went
Speaker 2: and became an informant for Homeland Security. And when they
Speaker 2: indicted him on state rico charges for these tax charges, yes,
Speaker 2: state Rico charges. He was advised to run while his
Speaker 2: lawyers worked on it. He was advised by law enforcement
Speaker 2: officers who knew, you know, his value. Hey man, you know,
Speaker 2: if I was you, I would get out of town
Speaker 2: for a while. And he did. He became a fugitive
Speaker 2: up in New York City.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And now it's a lot easier to be a fugitive
Speaker 2: when you have a lot of money, which Ray did.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: It's tough to be a fugitive these days when if
Speaker 2: you have to live under a bridge and you don't
Speaker 2: have any money. But you know, Ray had cash. And
Speaker 2: he survived for a long time up in New York
Speaker 2: even he even had to run around in New York
Speaker 2: when they went up looking for him a little bit.
Speaker 2: But his lawyers, and this is the craziest part of
Speaker 2: this whole story. It eventually came out through the hard
Speaker 2: work of his lawyers that the main revenue guys who
Speaker 2: are law enforcement officers you know here in Georgia who
Speaker 2: were coming after him, were taking bribes from Ray's competition.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, the Indians who was he was in competition
Speaker 2: with down here. We're giving these guys bribes to go
Speaker 2: after him. I'm talking about ten twelve thousand dollars watches,
Speaker 2: plane tickets, round trip plane tickets to Europe. And it
Speaker 2: all came out and these guys were arrested in Purp,
Speaker 2: walked down here in Georgia, and Ray was able to
Speaker 2: after six or seven months of being a fugitive up
Speaker 2: in New York, he was able to triumphantly return to
Speaker 2: the state of Georgia.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, it is. You know, we see
Speaker 1: that so often, not usually to that criminal extent, but
Speaker 1: so often businesses will use government to take out their competition.
Speaker 1: It might just be something that's pretty mundane, like extra
Speaker 1: regulation or extra barriers to competition or people getting into
Speaker 1: the business. So the usually it's competitors who are pushing
Speaker 1: the kind of regulations that we all complain about being excessive.
Speaker 1: But yeah, to basically stick the revenuers on him because
Speaker 1: he's their competition, that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: So that's interesting you say that. I learned that early
Speaker 2: on in my career. You know, I actually started in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles as an ice agent, but back then it
Speaker 2: was called Iron and all of our greatest tips in
Speaker 2: the employer Sanctions unit, you know, when we would we
Speaker 2: would get a tip that you know, this company was
Speaker 2: hiring you know, five hundred illegal aliens and all these violations.
Speaker 2: Those tips always came from another company that was their competition.
Speaker 2: What better way you know, and free get rid of
Speaker 2: your competition?
Speaker 1: Wow? Wow, Yeah, it is a a rough world, isn't it.
Speaker 1: That truly is amazing. So so tell us little bit
Speaker 1: about your book. I mean, do you go into the
Speaker 1: details of the different cases that you guys were looking at with,
Speaker 1: whether there's a cartels or you mentioned one of the
Speaker 1: first ones he did was the Gambino crime family. On
Speaker 1: day two of a Cleveland operation, he got involved in
Speaker 1: the Gambino crime family. Do you go into detail with
Speaker 1: what is happening in each of these individual cases or
Speaker 1: do some do it? Yeah? I do.
Speaker 2: You know, all these cases have been adjudicated, so you know,
Speaker 2: I can talk about them, and you know that that
Speaker 2: was just one example. If we brought brought ray up
Speaker 2: to Cleveland on in this getting operation and kind of
Speaker 2: we would just set the informants free and tell them
Speaker 2: to you know, bring us, you know, go go find
Speaker 2: out who's doing what and bring it to us. Who's
Speaker 2: putting guns on the street, who's you know who's selling fentanyl,
Speaker 2: who's doing the bad things. And the first day Ray
Speaker 2: came back to me and said, sir, have you ever
Speaker 2: heard of the Gambinos? I said, are you talking about
Speaker 2: like the Italian crime family? He goes, I believe that's him.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, of course, I've heard of them, like
Speaker 2: everybody has. He goes, well, I have a meeting set
Speaker 2: up with them tonight. And this was the first This
Speaker 2: was the first day we cut them loose. And these
Speaker 2: guys wanted to get into you know, trafficking untaxed cigarettes,
Speaker 2: and it was unbelievable and that that was just what
Speaker 2: he would do. And I do I go into these cases?
Speaker 2: And I talked about how he would. He would find
Speaker 2: these low level cartel guys who would come in and
Speaker 2: then we would kind of just climb up the ladder
Speaker 2: and you know, we would go to their supplier, and
Speaker 2: once we would ask for higher amounts that they couldn't handle,
Speaker 2: they would bring us the next level guy. And you know,
Speaker 2: Ray would help all along the way. And before you
Speaker 2: know it, maybe we started out buy an announce. Now
Speaker 2: we're buying you know, ten kilos from a high level member.
Speaker 2: And it was all facilitated by Ray. You know, in
Speaker 2: my career, people don't realize how valuable informants are. Are
Speaker 2: they a headache and can they be a lot of trouble? Yes,
Speaker 2: But as an undercover, I would say throughout my twenty
Speaker 2: year career, ninety five percent of the time that I
Speaker 2: that I was able to get into a criminal organization,
Speaker 2: it was because a confidential informant was able to you know,
Speaker 2: to make the introduction and walk me in. So they're
Speaker 2: super valuable to us. It's just you have to know
Speaker 2: how to handle them.
Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting. Now, your experience at the ATF was
Speaker 1: really licking investigating organized crime, and of course your your
Speaker 1: hook into that is the gun side of things. But
Speaker 1: when the rest of us look at the ATF, what
Speaker 1: we typically think of is somebody who is auditing and
Speaker 1: looking at the little minutia of you know, how long
Speaker 1: is your barrel, do you have a pistol brace on it?
Speaker 1: That type of thing, or what we saw with the
Speaker 1: Biden administration. I don't know if you were still there
Speaker 1: at the time where they started going after gun stores
Speaker 1: and basically shutting down down completely if they had a
Speaker 1: paperwork violation. So that's a different group inside of the
Speaker 1: ATF that I guess, how did you guys view that?
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was two very different cultures inside that institution.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, we were the criminal investigators of
Speaker 2: special agents. Those are the those are the regulatory that's
Speaker 2: a regulatory side. You know, they're not gun carrieres. But
Speaker 2: here's the problem with ATF and with every federal agency.
Speaker 2: They've become political. Right, So every time a new president,
Speaker 2: a new administration comes in, they put their guy in charge. Okay,
Speaker 2: their man or woman in charge. Right. So if you
Speaker 2: look at who we got under Biden, right, we got
Speaker 2: this guy. His name was ded O Beck. I believe
Speaker 2: his last name was. He was Obama's roommate in college.
Speaker 2: I guarantee you he had never shot a gun in
Speaker 2: his life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't imagine he and Obama going out to
Speaker 1: the shooting range together, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't think. I don't think that happened.
Speaker 2: And he had no business being the director, but he
Speaker 2: had never held a law enforcement position. Uh So when
Speaker 2: you get I'll just say it probably an anti gun guy,
Speaker 2: and put him in charge ATF. You know, he made
Speaker 2: the decision, he decided we're not going to go after
Speaker 2: the bad guys. You know, we're not going to go
Speaker 2: after the trigger pullers on the street, horse sticking guns
Speaker 2: in people's faces downtown at night. We're going to go
Speaker 2: after the gun dealers. It's their full right. So so
Speaker 2: that's what happens when you get these activists placed in
Speaker 2: charge of a federal agency. You know, everything changes and
Speaker 2: and our mission changes, you know, and and we saw
Speaker 2: you see it with the US Attorney's Office because they
Speaker 2: kind of direct you know, you you have to sell
Speaker 2: them on your case. They have to accept it. So
Speaker 2: when you get these certain US Attorney's office, you know,
Speaker 2: US attorneys who are placed by these more liberal administrations,
Speaker 2: they don't want to prosecute the hardcore criminals. They want
Speaker 2: to go after gun dealers. They want to go after
Speaker 2: federal firearms licensees. You know, it must be their fault
Speaker 2: that all these guns are on the street, you know,
Speaker 2: involved in all these shootings. Can't be the bad guy's fault. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I don't think people understand that that and those
Speaker 2: are the ones who are making these decisions and these
Speaker 2: really bad ruings. You know that that ATF has come
Speaker 2: out with, but it's not the ATF agent the man
Speaker 2: or a woman who's on the street going after the
Speaker 2: trigger pullars. You know, it's not us now.
Speaker 1: I don't know how long you've been out of the ATF,
Speaker 1: and this possibly wasn't even on their radar at that
Speaker 1: point in time. But we've heard a lot about ghost guns,
Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of regulations going down the
Speaker 1: pike about three D printers just in general. Now because
Speaker 1: of that, they're using that as the wedge to basically
Speaker 1: for other purposes, I believe, to get rid of three
Speaker 1: D printers. Did you ever with a Gambino crime family
Speaker 1: creating ghost guns with three D printers?
Speaker 2: No? I mean the crazy thing about the ghost guns,
Speaker 2: and I was kind of at the end of my
Speaker 2: career when when they started popping up, is that, you know,
Speaker 2: we weren't seeing that with the big organized crime, and
Speaker 2: we weren't seeing that with with these not even the
Speaker 2: cartels or the American street gangs you know that are
Speaker 2: pretty well established and organized, you know, the gangster Disciples,
Speaker 2: the Latin Kings and all that.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was these nerds, you know, in their apartment who
Speaker 2: were who were making these guns and selling them, you know,
Speaker 2: who were making some good money. Selling them on the
Speaker 2: dark web, you know, on the black market, more of
Speaker 2: an individual thing than any kind of organ organized movement.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, of course the government doesn't like these guns
Speaker 2: because they're untraceable, right, we don't know their origin, you know,
Speaker 2: and part of you know, part of our gun laws
Speaker 2: is that a gun has to be stamped with the
Speaker 2: serial number, you know, and traceable. And yeah, even as
Speaker 2: a second amendmic, I don't think that's unreasonable. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's a bad thing. I think, you know, and
Speaker 2: again the problem is now it's created a black market
Speaker 2: for guns as well, an even bigger black market.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what prohibition always does. We kind of joke
Speaker 1: about it, and my family always say, you know, you
Speaker 1: look at what has happened with drugs, for example. We
Speaker 1: saw it back even in alcohol prohibition, how it went
Speaker 1: from people drinking mostly beer to and wine to people
Speaker 1: drinking hard liquor and other things like that. And it
Speaker 1: seems like that's always the case when you've got something
Speaker 1: that's prohibited, you wind up getting a much more intensified
Speaker 1: form of it because it's more profitable for the black
Speaker 1: market to deal with that. And so we've talked about it.
Speaker 1: We said, if they prohibit guns like the Democrats want
Speaker 1: to do, you're going to see some pretty wild technology
Speaker 1: coming out there.
Speaker 2: I think, well, look at look at every city, you know,
Speaker 2: every Look at Chicago with the strictest gun loss. You know,
Speaker 2: there's guns falling out of the trees in Chicago. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: That's right. It's got a lot of adverse effects to it.
Speaker 1: I think all prohibition does. As a matter of fact.
Speaker 1: It's amazing story. And uh, it's where can people find
Speaker 1: the book? Is it available everywhere books are sold? I
Speaker 1: know you've got your own website.
Speaker 2: Yep. Amazon is is definitely the best place, the easiest place.
Speaker 2: If you just you know, you type in my name
Speaker 2: lou Velosi or Raycon you'll find my first book, which
Speaker 2: is Storefront Saying, which has just been purchased by a
Speaker 2: major network.
Speaker 1: And I think I'll make a movie out of it.
Speaker 2: They're going to make a series of Yah.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it sounds like a movie when
Speaker 1: you start talking about this stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to go through every every every storefront
Speaker 2: I did being a different season, like the Tattoo Parlor,
Speaker 2: the shooting range, with the military surplus store, the freight
Speaker 2: floating business, all the different ones I did, you know,
Speaker 2: with different undercover crews, and all the crazy things that
Speaker 2: happened in their shootouts and wow fights, and just it
Speaker 2: was really wild.
Speaker 1: And so it was about this is this Netflix, you said,
Speaker 1: that's gonna do this.
Speaker 2: I can't say yet it's one of the major ones.
Speaker 2: But you know, I knew Raycon was was a good
Speaker 2: follow up because he was such a big part of
Speaker 2: the second half of these storefront operations. So I just
Speaker 2: I wanted to get his story out there to let,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of let the public give him a little
Speaker 2: information about inform it's how important informants are, and and
Speaker 2: just tell a story of how sometimes the government just
Speaker 2: gets it wrong. You know this, We have so many
Speaker 2: illegal aliens in this country who are who are abusing
Speaker 2: our system and committing crimes. And here we get this
Speaker 2: guy who who is literally is a hero, who is
Speaker 2: respond for making this country safer, and our government can't
Speaker 2: even give him a green car.
Speaker 1: He still doesn't have a green car.
Speaker 2: Still doesn't wow.
Speaker 1: But well, you know, Trump's got those golden platinum cars
Speaker 1: that he's got one to five million dollars.
Speaker 2: If he listen to this. We need one, you know.
Speaker 2: You know again, you know, the last prior administration let
Speaker 2: tens of millions of these people in and all they're
Speaker 2: doing is abusing the system. We have one here who
Speaker 2: actually helped the country. I mean, can we can we
Speaker 2: get this guy green car?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. As I look at it, I see the
Speaker 1: big problem as being the welfare magnet, right, you know,
Speaker 1: paying people to come in. And of course, you know,
Speaker 1: we see the fraud networks of fraud that were up
Speaker 1: in Minnesota with the somalies and everything. But you know,
Speaker 1: at the same time, I support them, you know, cutting
Speaker 1: off the welfare magnet. I'm also very concerned about the
Speaker 1: way that law enforcement is being conducted, and I think
Speaker 1: there was a deliberate extremism to it that was put
Speaker 1: in there. So that's my concern. It's not so much
Speaker 1: even with what they're doing, is the way that they're
Speaker 1: doing it, I think is always something had to be
Speaker 1: very very careful about. I think law enforcement needs to
Speaker 1: be held to a higher standard than in general, and
Speaker 1: so that's my concern with it. But what was something
Speaker 1: give us an idea since they're going to be doing
Speaker 1: probably filming some of this give us an idea some
Speaker 1: of your exciting stories that happened. You said, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff happened in these storefronts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. You know, we would have these. I'll
Speaker 2: just tell you my first one was a tattoo shop
Speaker 2: and that was kind of We were learning as we
Speaker 2: went along on this, didn't know what to expect. But
Speaker 2: after twelve months running this tattoo shop in the inner City,
Speaker 2: we had purchased four hundred and thirty crime guns off
Speaker 2: the street, so we knew we were on the HF
Speaker 2: had never seen results like that. No one had ever
Speaker 2: seen those kind of results during you know, the story,
Speaker 2: we had all different gangs. We just catered to gangs.
Speaker 2: Our informant was a tattoo artist who had recently gotten
Speaker 2: out of prison and had gotten jammed up. He didn't
Speaker 2: want to go back. He agreed to do this. You know,
Speaker 2: he had he had inked all these guys in prison.
Speaker 2: They all knew him, and so he was able to
Speaker 2: get them all to come in and he was no
Speaker 2: he was nothing but trouble.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He ended up doing a bunch of things he wasn't
Speaker 2: supposed to do, getting sexual favors out back for the
Speaker 2: tattoos he was giving some young ladies. I mean, just
Speaker 2: NonStop trouble like it was like, you know, not only
Speaker 2: was I was I the manager supposedly of this place,
Speaker 2: but you know I had to keep him on a leash.
Speaker 2: And we have all these different gangs coming in. You know,
Speaker 2: we had told them all this and this is a
Speaker 2: neutral place. You know, we don't want any trouble in here.
Speaker 2: You can tag all the walls, you know, we left
Speaker 2: them blank and all that, but no hating. You know,
Speaker 2: we don't want any of that in here. That didn't
Speaker 2: last twenty four hours and their threatening. You know, we
Speaker 2: actually cut all the drywall out and kept it as
Speaker 2: evidence because of all the threats you know, they were
Speaker 2: putting on there to each other. And uh, you know,
Speaker 2: they would come in when different factions would come in,
Speaker 2: and next thing, you know, there'd be all out brawls,
Speaker 2: like like a riot inside and we'd have to come
Speaker 2: out from behind the counter with with baseball bats and
Speaker 2: and uh you know, and this is all while we're
Speaker 2: trying to buy guns and drugs and and you know,
Speaker 2: gather evidence. Uh, you know, we're dealing with that and
Speaker 2: and uh, they started bringing us stolen cars. You know,
Speaker 2: once they found out, you know what our side hustle
Speaker 2: was with their gun trafficking and they're buying the drugs
Speaker 2: and all that. You know, that opens up They're like, hey,
Speaker 2: they must be in anything. We had guys bring us Uh.
Speaker 2: Had a guy come in with a box of puppies
Speaker 2: once and turned out he was a He was a
Speaker 2: security guard at the mall and that this was back
Speaker 2: when there was still pet shops at the mall. He
Speaker 2: stole a whole box of puppies and brought him in.
Speaker 2: Had a guy come in with uh, prosthetic limbs. He
Speaker 2: had worked. He worked at a at the Georgia Regional
Speaker 2: Medical College in Augusta, and he had stolen a box
Speaker 2: of prosthetic limbs. And I remember he you know, I
Speaker 2: remember picking up one of the fake arms and looked
Speaker 2: at him. I said, listen, man, you know this. I said,
Speaker 2: we're not a paunch out. I said, you know who
Speaker 2: am I going to sell this to? And he looked
Speaker 2: at me and he goes to somebody with one arm.
Speaker 2: Man like you know, they didn't they didn't, they didn't
Speaker 2: get it. Uh So so, you know, some of it
Speaker 2: was comical. Some was fun. Some of it was not comical,
Speaker 2: you know, it was deadly serious.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The same guys who were coming in and dealing with us, uh,
Speaker 2: selling US drugs and selling US guns would come back
Speaker 2: at night with sche masks on and rob us.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: You know, there's no one arming thieves. And it wasn't
Speaker 2: like we didn't know who they were. They were in
Speaker 2: the same you know, these weren't rocket scientists, you know,
Speaker 2: they just uh, you know, we were burglarized, and every
Speaker 2: single one we were burglarized. We were in several ones,
Speaker 2: but by our own customers. Uh. It just I mean
Speaker 2: it was such an eye opener. And you know, we
Speaker 2: would embed ourselves in the whole community, not just the
Speaker 2: criminal community, but sometimes the whole community because we had
Speaker 2: you know, there was regular people coming into and when
Speaker 2: we would take these operation downs, we would have massive takedowns.
Speaker 2: Say we had you know, one hundred defendants. We would
Speaker 2: have swat teams, you know, uh d A at f
Speaker 2: US marshall you know, state and local police kicking doors
Speaker 2: and you know, because we had to get everyone quick
Speaker 2: because once once the word got out there, they you know,
Speaker 2: they leave and uh, we would you know, these these
Speaker 2: massive takedowns would result in car chases and foot chases
Speaker 2: and shootouts and and uh, you know, the community would
Speaker 2: actually be disappointed in us. We would find out later that,
Speaker 2: you know, because we had developed relationships and all, and
Speaker 2: and you know, they they would feel betrayed. But you
Speaker 2: know I always felt, hey, listen, we just made your
Speaker 2: community a lot safer because the hundred people we took
Speaker 2: out in this operation, those are the hundred worst people
Speaker 2: in this community. Those are the ones putting dangerous drugs
Speaker 2: on your streets, pointing guns in your faces.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's an amazing story. I can't wait to see
Speaker 1: I can't wait to read the book, but I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see the the movie either. That ought to
Speaker 1: be a great film. I mean, that's exactly the kind
Speaker 1: of story that they're looking for, I guess, and we've
Speaker 1: seen variations of it, but you actually lived through it.
Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing story. So thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. And again you you've got a website of
Speaker 1: your own, lou Velosi. It's l o u V a
Speaker 1: l o ze dot com and we've got that under
Speaker 1: your name there. So what do you have there that
Speaker 1: people can see? Do you sell the books there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are selling the books on the website and
Speaker 2: some of a lot of you know, my appearances, I
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, post retirement, I entered this entertainment
Speaker 2: world and I found out that it's Uh. I didn't
Speaker 2: think you could get dirtier or grimier than the federal government,
Speaker 2: but I think Hollywood, Hollywood has showed me that it
Speaker 2: actually is. And you know, I've Yeah, I do a
Speaker 2: lot of podcasts, I do a lot of public speak,
Speaker 2: and I travel the country speak to you law enforcement
Speaker 2: conferences and and uh, you know, I enjoy doing it.
Speaker 2: I enjoy warning young officers about what happened to me
Speaker 2: and not not allowing that to happen to them. And uh,
Speaker 2: you know, talking about how important our pension is and
Speaker 2: how you don't want to just work a whole career
Speaker 2: and retire and die. Yeah, you know you've earned that pension,
Speaker 2: So live a long life and you know, stay healthy.
Speaker 1: And what's your message to everybody about Hollywood?
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, like I told you before, I
Speaker 2: didn't think you could get much worse than the corruption
Speaker 2: of the federal government. But but boy, I said, you know,
Speaker 2: and listen, I've dealt with some really good people but
Speaker 2: just organizationally, just as a whole people. You know their word,
Speaker 2: their word doesn't mean much. I found that. I found out,
Speaker 2: never take anyone serious until they've actually written you a check.
Speaker 2: In hollywood'll really anything, but don't believe them until they
Speaker 2: cut you that check. It's it's just a man. And
Speaker 2: I've never seen a business an industry that takes off
Speaker 2: more time. You know, in October they'll tell me listen, well,
Speaker 2: don't expect anything. We have the holidays coming up. No
Speaker 2: one's going to do anything, probably till mid January. And
Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, we're talking three months here, they're
Speaker 2: taking off three months. Just wow. I never could have
Speaker 2: made a career in it. I can tell you.
Speaker 1: That that's better than Congress even.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, an eye opener.
Speaker 1: You've had some amazing life experiences and I'm sure these
Speaker 1: are very interesting books. Thank you so much again. The
Speaker 1: book that we were talking about here is Raycon The
Speaker 1: Betrayal of an Informant, And of course you've got the
Speaker 1: other one. Was that already out or is that coming out?
Speaker 1: About the storefronts?
Speaker 2: Yes, storefront sting an atf agent's life Undercover. That that
Speaker 2: one's been out now for about that's the one that
Speaker 2: was purchased. It's been out now for about four years.
Speaker 2: And I would like to leave you with a parting
Speaker 2: thought about ATF if you'll allow.
Speaker 1: Me, sure, go ahead.
Speaker 2: So, and I just want to put put this out
Speaker 2: to your audience. You know, answer you. If you are
Speaker 2: an advocate of the Second Amendment, and you you know,
Speaker 2: you're a proponent of gun rights, you should really love ATF.
Speaker 2: And I told are you familiar with Coleon Noir no
Speaker 2: Big Second Amendmic guy was an NRA guide, a black
Speaker 2: Eye lawyer.
Speaker 1: Uh no, I don't know. I don't know him, but
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I told him this recently on his podcast.
Speaker 2: You should be a fan of ATF if you are
Speaker 2: a proponent of gun rights, because ATF is a small,
Speaker 2: very controllable agency. We have about two thousand agents for
Speaker 2: the whole country, right you're the likeliness of running into
Speaker 2: an ATF agent is pretty slim right out there. The
Speaker 2: gun laws are never going away, all right. So if
Speaker 2: you abolish ATF, the gun laws are going to go
Speaker 2: to one or two agencies. They're going to go to
Speaker 2: the FBI or Department of Homeland Security. We don't want
Speaker 2: the gun laws going to those two behemoths. Those you know,
Speaker 2: you think the FBI was bad under the last administration,
Speaker 2: with you know, the authority they have. Now give them
Speaker 2: the gun laws and see what they do. So you know,
Speaker 2: ahf again is easily controlled, it's underfunded. And that's exactly
Speaker 2: who you want enforcing our gun laws. You don't want
Speaker 2: the You don't want the FBI or Homeland Security enforcing
Speaker 2: our gun so you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we would always say when people say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, the problem is just going to make government
Speaker 1: more efficient, It's like, no, actually, I don't want to
Speaker 1: make government more efficient. I don't like what they're doing
Speaker 1: to start with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't use I don't use the term government and
Speaker 2: efficient together in a cent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, only in doge do we get that? That's headchach.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm afraid government isn't going to get a
Speaker 1: lot more efficient with artificial intelligence. That's my real concern.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where this is going. Uh. And
Speaker 1: that's that's something you know, not necessarily your agency, but
Speaker 1: all the different government agencies are going to be able
Speaker 1: to audit everything that everybody does. And find the simplest
Speaker 1: process crimes and it's like bringing the man, I'll find
Speaker 1: the crime type of attitude. And so I think that's
Speaker 1: really going to happen. We've already had a situation, as
Speaker 1: Harvey Silverglate said in his book Three Phoneies a Day.
Speaker 1: He said, we've got so many laws on the books
Speaker 1: that people are typically creating three phonies a day and
Speaker 1: they don't even know it. Well, you're going to know
Speaker 1: it when you get a call from the people who
Speaker 1: are representing the artificial intelligence that's gone through and audited
Speaker 1: your life in so many different areas. That's what I'm
Speaker 1: concerned about. It is the over regulation.
Speaker 2: You are absolutely right, And to me, it all started
Speaker 2: with traffic cameras and these license plate readers. That's where
Speaker 2: it's starting. Yeah, it's just going to get worse.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's getting worse rapidly through Flock. We got the
Speaker 1: Flock cameras out there and they you know, you create
Speaker 1: this this mechanism where you have these private companies that
Speaker 1: are basically doing the surveillance and the law enforcement work,
Speaker 1: and they're just passing it along to the official law
Speaker 1: enforcement which is just collating and doing the process work.
Speaker 1: Of this stuff, and they do things because they say, well,
Speaker 1: we're private, we can do whatever we want. We're not
Speaker 1: governed by the restrictions that would govern us if we
Speaker 1: are the government. And yet in reality they really are.
Speaker 1: They're just not deputized, they're not official, but they have
Speaker 1: all these police state powers of surveillance and other things.
Speaker 1: That's what really is my concern. And we have seen
Speaker 1: the money.
Speaker 2: The money they're making is ridiculous, Yeah, and so it
Speaker 2: gives them more incentive to do more. And if you
Speaker 2: look at one of these tickets, because my wife and
Speaker 2: I have gotten them from these traffic cameras, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2: There's just one police officer who signs it. Everything else
Speaker 2: is done by this private company.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and frequently it's not even in America. It's another
Speaker 1: company that's running these automated toll things. And after we
Speaker 1: move from Texas, we got several tickets and we were
Speaker 1: not even in the city that purported to have been
Speaker 1: a violation of a toll or something. And you waste
Speaker 1: a lot of time fighting this stuff. You win, obviously
Speaker 1: if you fight it, but you waste a lot of
Speaker 1: time doing it. And if you don't respond right away,
Speaker 1: they start rapidly multiplying the fees that are on it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of issues that are there, and none
Speaker 1: of that stuff is being addressed by people in government.
Speaker 1: They're really late to the game. If they're ever going
Speaker 1: to do anything about it, I'm skeptical, but they ever
Speaker 1: want to do anything about it because I think it
Speaker 1: is the kind of structure that they really want that
Speaker 1: is out there. But you know, the part of it
Speaker 1: that in terms of the ATF and things like that,
Speaker 1: I guess really when you look at it from our perspective,
Speaker 1: it's really the people who are pushing through the regulations
Speaker 1: that are there. And how as you point out, it's
Speaker 1: very political and depending on who is in charge of it,
Speaker 1: they can really weaponize those regulations against people. And they've
Speaker 1: got an agenda where they want to see all of
Speaker 1: the guns disappear. So I think that's the real concern
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Politics. Yeah, politics has seeped has seeped into law enforcement. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's not a good thing. That's right for the people.
Speaker 2: That's the reason that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just talking to Sheriff Mac who is
Speaker 1: about the constitutional Sheriffs and peace Officers Association, Big guy
Speaker 1: on pushing for local control of law enforcement, having sheriffs
Speaker 1: that are elected by the community. I think that's important.
Speaker 1: And I think the more distant and more bureaucratic everything
Speaker 1: gets from us, the more dangerous it is. And it's
Speaker 1: getting rapidly distant and dangerous from us, I think all
Speaker 1: the time as we look at it.
Speaker 2: Just just take a look at the police chiefs that
Speaker 2: we currently have in the big cities here in America,
Speaker 2: and I can tell you it's a bunch of clients
Speaker 2: and they're not elected by the people.
Speaker 1: That's right, That's right, Yeah, that's right. So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a real warning for everybody. But your story is truly
Speaker 1: amazing and a very interesting story, I'm sure, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure it'll be very entertaining. I can't believe they would
Speaker 1: not make it into a movie. It's exactly the kind
Speaker 1: of story they're looking for. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us, Lou, I appreciate it, Lou Velosi, And again
Speaker 1: you can see his website there under his name. He
Speaker 1: has website where you can find the book. Of course,
Speaker 1: you can find it on amaz Honor where books are sold.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: It was an honor. You have a great show, and
Speaker 2: it's an honor to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you, glad to have you on.
Speaker 1: Thank you. The common Man. They created common Core, dumbed
Speaker 1: down our children. They created common past, track and control us.
Speaker 1: They're Commons project to make sure the commoners own nothing
Speaker 1: and the communist future. They see the common man as simple,
Speaker 1: unsophisticated ordinary. But each of us has worth and dignity
Speaker 1: created in the image of God. That is what we
Speaker 1: have in common. That is what they want to take away.
Speaker 1: Their most powerful weapons are isolation, deception, intimidation. They desire
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