WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.040 So you want to go up this road here and 2 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:03.879 get to the roundabout. You take a left and then 3 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:04.080 you go. 4 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:04.960 Past the Murphy's house. 5 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:07.040 You know the Murphy's their young lad Sean. I think 6 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:11.080 it's over in London now, oh yeah. FBD doesn't stand 7 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:16.839 for frustratingly bad directions. FBD stands for support. We support 8 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:19.480 van drivers in Ireland with up to seventy five percent 9 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:20.800 off new van policies. 10 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:23.640 FBD Insurance Support. It's what we do. 11 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.239 Can't miss it. Once you pass there, a little terrier 12 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.480 will start to chase you and once he gives up, 13 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.160 you should be there. Seventy five percent off based on 14 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.000 five years no claims discount, Terms and conditions apply. Underwritten 15 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.119 by FBD Insurance Plc FBD Insurance Group Limited training as 16 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.600 FBD Insurance is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. 17 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:42.560 Get value you can't argue with at Tesco with their 18 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.679 amazing club card prices. Serve up something special with our 19 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:48.439 finest meal deal for two starring one main, two sides 20 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.320 and dessert for only sixteen EU row like Succulent Board 21 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.240 be approved. Virus Angus striployin stakes with pepper Corn butter 22 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:58.159 or Delicious Virus chicken parmesana, served with creamy potato gratam 23 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:01.719 and our mix of rainbow root vegetables and enjoyed goosillionaire 24 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.840 or sold a caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that shop 25 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:08.239 in store or online tasco. Every little helps, I've been 26 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:10.280 able to most doors prices very inn express. 27 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:14.040 Oh hey, it's that friend who looks so good in hats. 28 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.200 They never don't wear a hat. Ali Ward, let's take 29 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:20.519 a field trip. Coincidentally, not coincidentally at all. This is 30 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:24.680 Indigenous History Month here in the United States of Colonized America. 31 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.959 So we're heading to the Pacific to chat about foods 32 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.319 of native populations in this movement to study and cultivate 33 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:34.959 and reintroduce them. Last summer, I had this rare opportunity 34 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:39.359 while doing a symposium for USC's Storytellers program. I was 35 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.439 teaching climate scientists about psychom and I got to meet 36 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.719 some really lovely and super brilliant folks, and one of 37 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.920 them told me that he was working in breadfruit and 38 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.480 knowing jack about it. Of course I had to corner 39 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:54.680 him on a boat dock on Catalina Island to start 40 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:57.719 asking him one million questions. One of these you may 41 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.280 have like me, is what is a breadfruit? Is it 42 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:02.840 a baked good? Is it a sweet juicy thing on 43 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:03.359 a vine? 44 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:04.040 Is it a carb? 45 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:07.079 Is it meat? What's happening here? And we'll dig in. 46 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:10.199 But first a quick primer is that the islands of 47 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:12.919 Hawaii are right in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. 48 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:17.719 It's like two thousand miles in either direction from Polynesia 49 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:20.879 or North America. So about a thousand years ago, folks 50 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.680 from Polynesia cruised over on these big, double hulled canoes 51 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:28.120 guided by stars. They got to Hawaii. They were like, 52 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.560 these volcano maite islands are great. 53 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:31.479 Let's live here. 54 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.000 Let's bring our pigs, chickens, dogs, and foods like coconut 55 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:38.560 and sugar cane and bananas and taro root and breadfruit. 56 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:43.919 So many centuries later European explorers will call them landed. 57 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:46.840 Then thought the islands were sweet and they were pretty. 58 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:50.159 They liked the food. So the roasted breadfruit smelled like 59 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:54.039 bread to these colonizers who called it breadfruit, although native 60 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:56.159 Hawaiians have plenty of other names for it, which we'll 61 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:59.039 hear about in a bit. But a botanist on Captain 62 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:02.840 Cook's ship took some notes in praise of this food source. 63 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:06.759 He wrote, their chiefest sustenance, breadfruit is procured with no 64 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.039 more trouble than that of climbing a tree and pulling 65 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.400 it down. If a man should, in the course of 66 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:14.520 his lifetime, plant ten such trees, which might take the 67 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.639 labor of an hour, he would as completely fulfill his 68 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.560 duty to his own as well as future generations that 69 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.879 we Europeans can do by toiling in the cold of 70 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:27.479 winter to sow and in the heat of summer to 71 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.439 reap the annual produce. 72 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:29.639 Of our soil. 73 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:33.560 They were like, Wow, what are we doing working so 74 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.639 hard for wheat when breadfruit is good and easy to 75 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.080 grow and harvest. Anyway, back to this dock outside of 76 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.240 La California at the USC Wrigley Institute for Environment and 77 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:48.479 Sustainabilities Storymaker Symposium of all these climate scientists, so this 78 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:53.360 wonderful breadfruit expert studied environmental engineering at Yale and did 79 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:58.759 doctoral research at Stanford University in biogeochemistry and social ecology. 80 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:01.960 He's now a professor are of Indigenous Crops and Cropping 81 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.039 Systems at the University of Hawaii at Manoah. And he said, 82 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:06.960 if I were ever in Hawaii, he'd be happy to 83 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.599 have me visit for a tour of his breadfruit farm. 84 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.879 And so months later, already headed to Hawaii for some 85 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:16.920 interviews and a visit family, I stopped by. I met 86 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.519 some breadfruit and some dogs and some other researchers in 87 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.319 this world. And now we have this scrumptious field trip 88 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:25.399 on which take you. 89 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:26.439 So all aboard. 90 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:32.079 Let's go breadfruit growing with ethnobotanist, indigenous ecobiologist, doctor Noah 91 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:36.519 Kekueva Lincoln and research assistant and soil scientists who's working 92 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:38.560 on her PhD at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, 93 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:44.040 Dali Altafuna for this field trip a Hawaiian breadfruit Revolusian. 94 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.519 So to set the scene, I've been on Catalian Island 95 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:08.000 outside of la for several days with about a half 96 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.040 a dozen climate scientists and science communicators like Liz Neelee 97 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:15.399 and Ed Yan. And for days we've all been sharing 98 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.879 meals and telling campfire tales over glasses of wine, listening 99 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:22.199 to stories of each other's lives and just become in pals. 100 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.759 So it's near the end of the trip and now 101 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:26.839 Noah and I are walking down a hill from the 102 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.639 usc Ridley Institute to the rocky shoreline where a boat 103 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:34.079 is docked, bobbing as it waits to take these climate 104 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.279 scientists to a final dinner together. 105 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:39.480 You have a minute when we walk, Yeah, we'll talk. 106 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:40.199 We'll walk and talk. 107 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:41.920 Noah Lincoln He him. 108 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.519 And what's the genus and species of the breadfruit that 109 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:46.199 you study the. 110 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.519 Most, Well, they're all the same species. They are Artocarpus altilis. 111 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.399 Okay, are you an artocarparologist? 112 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:57.160 Have you looked up to see if that's an ology 113 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:58.240 you knew I was going to be here? 114 00:05:58.279 --> 00:05:59.240 Did you look up earlier? 115 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:01.879 I did not. I tend the lump at all under 116 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.360 our broader work of ethnobotany or ethno biology. I guess 117 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:06.160 we want to ology. 118 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:07.720 I was going to say, how dare you with the 119 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.600 you might have looked? Come back with an X. I 120 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:11.040 can't do. 121 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.639 Anything with that oranism and a quick primer. Breadfruit is 122 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.959 in the fig family, and it's closely related to jackfruit, 123 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.959 and there are three related species and the genus aartocarpus, 124 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:25.839 which means in Greek breadfruit literally, so most of the 125 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:29.360 cultivated breadfruits descend from the species known as bread nut 126 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:31.959 which is native to the Papa ne Guinea area. And 127 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.720 in general, breadfruit is bigger than you might picture it, 128 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:38.560 like some way as much as a watermelon, and they 129 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.959 look like huge green dragon eggs, though there are varieties 130 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:43.439 can be. 131 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:44.439 As tiny as an apple. 132 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:49.800 Some of them also like blackberries, breadfruit are a compound fruit. 133 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.839 So each big old breadfruit is actually up to two 134 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:57.519 thousand flowers fused into one megafruit, which is why it 135 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:03.879 looks spiky or scaled lizard or I suppose dragon skin. Okay, breadfruit, 136 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:05.480 What was the first time you ever ate it? Because 137 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.560 you're born on Hawaii, Yes, so. 138 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:10.720 I mean we had it as kids, you know, but 139 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:14.959 pretty sparsely, and probably been working on breadfruit for about 140 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.720 ten years now. And I would say one of the 141 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:22.199 things that was an epiphany to me was how challenging 142 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:25.600 it is right to change our personal habits, and particularly 143 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:29.040 around the way we eat and so, you know, especially 144 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.480 with our staple foods. There are comfort foods, right. We 145 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:37.160 grew up on rice and transitioning to you know, particularly 146 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:41.160 our indigenous starches, of which breadfruits won. It was a 147 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:46.839 very challenging and deliberate switch that took a lot of years. 148 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.120 And staple foods are the ones that we tend to 149 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.000 eat every day, and different cultures tend to lean toward 150 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.560 their own staple foods. I think like wheat and rice 151 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.480 and corn and millet and yam, potatoes, sweet potatoes. And 152 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.399 according to the book Thinking Like an Island Navigating a 153 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.879 Sustainable Future in Hawaii, before the western colonization of Hawaii 154 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:11.959 by whalers and missionaries, the hundreds of thousands of people 155 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.040 on the Hawaiian Islands were self sufficient for food. But 156 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:19.439 now eighty five percent of food is imported. So breadfruit 157 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.319 has held this important place in terms of staple foods, 158 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.360 and Noah and his colleagues are bringing it back. And 159 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.839 so the first time you tried it, do you remember 160 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:29.839 was it mixed in with something else you had? 161 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:32.240 Was it fresh off a tree? Can you eat it 162 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:33.759 right off a tree? Or must it be cooked? 163 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:34.519 You can? 164 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:36.320 You know? 165 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.360 Breadfruit is a fruit. It ripens, it goes through stages, 166 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:42.639 so unlike most of our staple foods, like you know, 167 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:46.879 rice or potatoes. But it's diverse it, you know, and 168 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:49.840 its youngest stage me about the size of a baseball. 169 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.320 It's it's a lot like a vegetable Okay, you can 170 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.679 pickle it. People make things that taste like artichoke carts basically, 171 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:58.519 oh yeah, and then you know, it matures and that's 172 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.799 it's you know, basically at that point, a big potato 173 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.840 on a tree. So that's when most people eat it. 174 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:06.279 That's the stage I first had it. And it doesn't 175 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.159 stick in your mind per se, Like nobody grabs a 176 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.679 potato and tears into it and goes yum. 177 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.519 You know know, are you sure about that? 178 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:17.240 You slather up sour cream and bacon and butter, and 179 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.639 then it's you know, takes on the flavor of what 180 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.879 you're doing. But you know, it's a staple. 181 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:23.039 It's a starch. 182 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.159 And in some cases is a little bland, but if 183 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.639 you know what to do with it, it can be delicious. 184 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.960 We kept ambling toward the dock where other scientists from 185 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.039 the symposium had started to gather to board the boat 186 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:35.519 to dinner. 187 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:36.840 Does it take a out for. 188 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:39.399 The tree to mature in order to bear fruit or 189 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:40.919 does it make fruit. 190 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:41.440 Even when it's young? 191 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:43.720 And this is a lot of the work we're doing, 192 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:47.559 kind of these basic agronomy questions. And so, for instance, 193 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:50.720 we have a trial in Hawaii spread out across the 194 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.960 state in different habitats. You know, a sea spray habitat, 195 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.240 a high wind habitat, a high elevation, cold temperature habitat. 196 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:02.639 And we've seen fruit as young as eighteen months, and 197 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:05.840 we've seen trees take up to seven years to start producing. 198 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.600 So it depends on your site, your environment, your variety 199 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:11.600 you're growing all those things. 200 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:13.279 And for more on this you can see no As 201 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:17.159 co authored twenty twenty paper Cultivation Potential Projections of breadfruit 202 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:21.200 under climate change scenarios using an empirically validated suitability model 203 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.000 calibrated in Hawaii, which warns that if we want to 204 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:27.200 figure out how to grow food that can withstand future 205 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.159 climate change, we've got to figure it out now to 206 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.200 get ahead of it. And in perhaps the only good 207 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.039 news about climate change, this study concluded that there is 208 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:42.480 substantial and increasing potential for future bread fruit production in Hawaii. 209 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.759 As the climate heats up. The trees like the warmth. 210 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:49.240 And grows best in the tropics or closer to the equator. 211 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:52.879 It is definitely a tropical tree, so even in Hawaii, 212 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:56.080 you know, we're technically subtropics. Everyone thinks of us as tropical, 213 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.600 but compared to places like Tahiti and Bali, Like, we're 214 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:00.679 actually kind of cold. 215 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:01.320 Oh wow. 216 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.919 So when you move up the mountain in Hawaii, redfruit 217 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.559 will pretty much only grow below about one thousand feet 218 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:09.559 and above that it starts getting too cold. 219 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:10.840 Oh, you wouldn't. 220 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:13.039 Even have thought of that, because the volcanoes are so tall, 221 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:14.240 like they are. 222 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.399 Yeah, you know, Monica's technically the tallest mountain on Earth 223 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.679 if you measure it from the seafloor, fourteen thousand feet 224 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.200 above sea level. So yeah, you'll sit in the beach 225 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.200 eighty five degrees signing, drinking a mytie and there's snow 226 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:28.799 on top of the mountain right up there. 227 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:29.840 That's crazy. 228 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.679 And our very first episode of ologies with volcanology in 229 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:36.600 case you need a primer on that, but with beaches 230 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.360 all the way up to these huge volcanic mountains. Essentially, 231 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.519 Hawaii has a broad range of soil types and elevations 232 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:48.519 and thus ecosystems, And there's a classification called old Ridge 233 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:51.639 life zones, and out of the thirty eight types of 234 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:55.399 zone on the planet, Hawaii has twenty seven of them. 235 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:58.879 And though redfruit isn't native to the islands themselves, again, 236 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.919 it originated in and it was brought to Hawaii by 237 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:06.279 early Polynesian settlers nearly a thousand years ago. Breadfruit grows 238 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:09.200 well in many parts of the islands, and there's a 239 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.559 seedless variety. Those are the ones that are commonly eaten. 240 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.440 They have to be propagated by grafting a lot like apples, 241 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.440 which we have a whole pomology episode about that. Oh 242 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:21.799 and remember the Captain Cook expedition that I talked about 243 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:25.639 in the intro. Well, once the European colonizers found out 244 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.240 how great breadfruit was, they wanted to take it to 245 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.320 the tropics to use it as a staple food for 246 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:36.159 enslaved populations. And one absolutely bonker story, I'll sum it 247 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.600 up quick. It involves that botanist that I mentioned in 248 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:41.919 the intro traveling on a ship for a breadfruit tree 249 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.480 gathering mission. And in order to fit this breadfruit tree 250 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.960 nursery in the ship, he had to cramp the ship's 251 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.519 crew and super close quarters, which they hated. A bunch 252 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:54.679 of the crew got blackout drunk, I guess, spreading a 253 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:58.240 bunch of pretty sexy diseases between them. The angry captain 254 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:02.559 would flog his underlings. There was a coconut heist from 255 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.279 the captain's personal stash, and then what has been called 256 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:10.279 the most notorious mutiny in naval history, the Mutiny on 257 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:14.559 the Bounty, which resulted in a lot of destroyed breadfruit trees, 258 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.320 and then the ousted captain's new ship run aground on 259 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.480 the Great Barrier Reef. Some of the mutineers also started 260 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:24.960 a new colony on an island, so breadfruit In a moment, 261 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.120 we're going to talk about a new type of revolution, 262 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:31.399 this time in the hands of Native Hawaiians and ethnobotany 263 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.440 enthusiasts like Noah. 264 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.440 My academic trainings has been in ecology and soil science. 265 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.519 But you know, as a child, I was very strongly 266 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:44.759 engaged in our traditional plants, our crops. It's taught how 267 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:49.799 to make herbal medicines, use our traditional foods, and essentially 268 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.639 that is what people go off to school for to 269 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:56.480 learn to become an hethnobotanists. Yeah, and so you know, 270 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.360 I had very informal training in ethnobotany and to come 271 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.399 full circle in my life back around and really re 272 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:06.039 engaged with a lot of these crops that I was 273 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:07.639 exposed to as a kid. Yeah. 274 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:10.120 Now, were your parents also born in Hawaii or did 275 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:11.559 they move there at a certain point. 276 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:12.919 How did your feeling end up there? 277 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.360 Well, my father's side is ancestrally Hawaiian, so you know, 278 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.840 we can trace our lineage back sixteen generations, probably further, 279 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.720 but that's where you know, it kind of fizzles in 280 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.159 terms of tracking things down. That whole side of my 281 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:31.039 family is in Hawaii. Were based in Hawaii, and yeah, 282 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:31.519 it's home. 283 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:36.440 And when you first started trying to promote more agriculture 284 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.919 around breadfruit, it wasn't as easy as sell as you 285 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:42.159 thought it was going to be. Did you think people 286 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:46.039 were going to say? Yes, absolutely time that breadfruit got 287 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:50.519 its due in theissan? But what was difficult about convincing 288 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.559 communities that this was something worth investing in. 289 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.879 I would say I absolutely did not expect people to 290 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:58.519 jump on it. I mean, we were passionate about bread 291 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.519 fruit because we knew about it, and that's one of 292 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.840 the big barriers. People don't know about it. 293 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:04.799 Did you know about it? 294 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.000 Now you know about it, and to get people excited 295 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:10.559 about it, you know, to get them to engage in it, 296 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.159 to use it, to bring it back into the food system. 297 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.720 We knew was going to be a big educational push. 298 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:19.240 And that's kind of what we've been hanging our coat on. Right. 299 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:21.919 If we can just teach people, expose people all these 300 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.279 wonderful things about the food, like a course, they're going 301 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.240 to have it. But you know, if you just put 302 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.519 it in the shelf, people walk into a store, they 303 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.080 got no idea what it is. You know, that's scary. 304 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.000 I don't want to grab a new food. I don't 305 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:34.840 know how to cook or use or anything. 306 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.679 Is it going to sit in the crisper until it's rotting? 307 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:38.240 Yeah? 308 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:39.679 I met seven bucks on that. 309 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:40.600 Why did I do that? 310 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.759 Seven bucks an exaggeration. We did some fact checking and 311 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.759 the actual going rate for a whole breadfruit it depends 312 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.080 on where you live, but in some places it's less 313 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.000 than two bucks a pound, with the average breadfruit weighing 314 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.399 two and a half pounds just over a kilo, So 315 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.720 what that's like five seven bucks? But a twenty nineteen 316 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:03.440 study Interactions between people and Breadfruit in Hawaii Consumption, Preparation 317 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.320 and Sourcing Patterns in the journal Sustainability found that most 318 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.799 Hawaiians ate breadfruit three times a year or less, and 319 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.559 over seventy percent of those people got it from a 320 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:18.559 friend's tree, although having your own breadfruit tree meant eating 321 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.559 it about four times more than the people without the trees. 322 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.720 So imagine having a tree with three pound potatoes just 323 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:28.919 grown in your yard, and it's called Ulai, you said 324 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.399 in Hawaiian and Hawaiian is Ulu Ulu. Yeah, And so 325 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.679 when did the idea for a revolution with that in 326 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.840 the middle revolution? Do you get it? And their logo 327 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.840 has a fist uprising clutching a branch bearing a big 328 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.159 old breadfruit. So Noah is very passionate about getting the 329 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:49.600 word out and getting breadfruit back onto dinner tables. 330 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.799 So we got into the broader food system of Ulu 331 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.559 out of establishing a breadfruit farm. And so we've had 332 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.720 a lot of time on the farm with groups of 333 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.840 peace bull and friends, you know, doing hard physical labor 334 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.039 and oftentimes raining, and but then afterwards you you're often 335 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.920 sitting around and just kind of kicking ideas. And that's 336 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.960 when a lot of I think kind of the catchphrases 337 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.839 have come out, or you know, like how do we 338 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.119 get how do we share this excitement? Right? We're so 339 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.599 stoked on this food, and how do we get it out? 340 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:21.720 So there's a lot of things that came out of 341 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.960 those early sessions. We called it a solutionary food, which 342 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.599 is the revolutionary solution that like our food systems need. 343 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.680 You know, I do science because I want to see 344 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.039 the effect of it in our communities. I want to 345 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:39.200 see it applied and change to make the world a 346 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.920 better place. And I think unless you really get it 347 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.440 outside of our little circles, it's never going to do that. 348 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:46.279 I know it. 349 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.640 Had just become a tenured professor, but he was at 350 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.359 the Wrigley Storymakers Program to hone skills at communicating his 351 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.640 science to a broader public and especially to the communities 352 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.480 affected by food scarcity and whose lives will be impacted 353 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.400 positively through more sustainable farming. Where can people find out 354 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.400 more about what you do or about breadfruit? Where do 355 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.400 you if people are like a bread what where do 356 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:09.160 you point them? 357 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:10.920 Well, if you want to learn about breadfruit, I would 358 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.400 definitely suggest going to eat breadfruit dot com. That is 359 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.839 the what you ulu Producers cooperative. We work collectively with 360 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.200 them to get a lot of the information and stories 361 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.599 out there so you can learn about it. You can 362 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.680 learn how to cook it, you can buy it, you 363 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.759 can engage with it, you can read stories about the farmers. 364 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.880 You can see cooking demonstration videos you well, so yeah, 365 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:36.119 that's again part of this educational campaign. So yeah, you 366 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.480 want to learn about breadfruit, eat breadfruit dot. 367 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.279 Com Again, that's eat breadfruit dot com favorite recipe. 368 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:47.160 Oh boy, So for early engagement, I really like twice 369 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.480 cook patties. Oh so you know you steam them, mash 370 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:54.319 it up with some diced onions, lee and parrens, salt, pepper, garlic, 371 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:57.559 you know a little bit of oregano, maybe slam those 372 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.400 out into patties and then pan fry them. That's a 373 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.960 good one. Sounds like a latka, yes, a little bit 374 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.039 like a lotca, but less oily. 375 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.720 Good to know to me. 376 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:09.720 Our favorite product we actually have out is a breadfruit 377 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.119 chocolate mouse. So I told you breadfruit goes through stages. 378 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:17.640 So after that mature potato stage, it actually ripens, it sweetens, 379 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.240 it softens, and you take that ripe, sweet, soft bread 380 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.720 fruit and we blend it with local honey, coconut milk, 381 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.720 and local cacal oh, and then we freeze those. So 382 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.599 it's a moose, but it's vegan, one hundred percent local 383 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.079 and ninety five percent breadfruit. But you would never know 384 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.640 that when you stick it in your mouth, it's it's delicious. 385 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:40.319 And later finally made it to the Big Island in 386 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.839 Hawaii and I was able to visit the Ulu co 387 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.240 op and take home some breadfruit flour and yes, I 388 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.359 got to try this chocolate breadfruit mouse and it was great. 389 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.480 It was like a frozen yogurt custard texture and had 390 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.160 this nutty flavor. I loved it. 391 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.960 And a complete protein too, it is. 392 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.759 Yeah, breadfruit has a strong human health opponent to it. 393 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.759 So yeah, complete protein, all seven amino acids, fairly high 394 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.359 in vitamins and minerals. There's a lot of emerging research. 395 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:10.680 You know, it's a little bit more close to home, 396 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.160 but particularly for our native Hawaiian Pacific islanders are very 397 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:20.000 high at risk for type two diabetes hypertension, and there's 398 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.319 a lot of research emerging showing that returning to traditional 399 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:29.279 staples and starches drastically reduce those kind of diet related diseases. 400 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.000 And so with breadfruit, that's related to a relatively low 401 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:36.200