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Seetail Loop Tadian. 25 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.519 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 26 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:19.640 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:27.000 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 28 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.719 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:35.000 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 30 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.280 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 31 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:53.400 Good evening, Robert Maudsley casually walked into the cell of 32 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.719 another inmate who was sleeping on his bunk, face down. 33 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.400 A savage rage quickly took over and Mosley starts stabbing 34 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:05.400 the back of the man's head. There was blood, pieces 35 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.000 of brain, and chunks of hair flying in a fury. 36 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:12.159 After the man went limp, Modsley grabbed the man's head 37 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:14.360 and held it in both palms and started to smash 38 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.039 it against the walls of the cell so hard that 39 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.960 the plaster began to fall off the ceiling. Nurses and 40 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.719 guards had to watch on, not being able to get 41 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.680 into the cell, hearing the victim's head crack each time 42 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.039 it was smashed against the wall. After Modsley finished with 43 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:33.159 the attack, he sat the limp body up against the bed, 44 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.159 got down on his knees and started to eat chunks 45 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:41.039 of the brain with his homemade knife. Robert Modsley was 46 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.759 dubbed Hannibal the Cannibal on account of his thirst for 47 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:46.800 eating the brains of his victims. He is one of 48 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.719 the most interesting and thought provoking murderers in prison. He 49 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:54.159 will be housed in a Bullefrooit cage in the basement 50 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:57.840 of Wakefield Prison, England, where Briton holds its most savage, 51 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:01.199 high profile convicts. He is known to be such a 52 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.520 danger to others, even inmates. He lives in a specially 53 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.000 designed cell that doesn't allow him any contact with anyone 54 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.360 except for guards that slide his food through a small 55 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:15.639 hole at the bottom of his cell. Robert Maudsley is 56 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.520 deemed to be the most dangerous prisoner in Britain, even 57 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:21.960 though he only killed one person outside of prison. His 58 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:28.039 remaining victims were claimed while incarcerated. This book reviews Maudsley's 59 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.599 life from his tormented childhood, his rage filled murder outside 60 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:38.000 of prison, and the planned tortuous murders of three convicted pedophiles. 61 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:41.919 The book that we're featuring this evening is Hannibal the Cannibal, 62 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.000 The True Story of Robert Madsley, with my special guest journalist, 63 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.599 author and radio co host Alan R. Warren. Welcome back 64 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.240 to the program and thank you very much for Greenness interview. 65 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:54.759 Alan R. Warren. 66 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.080 Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on. 67 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.960 Thank you once again Alan for coming on and presenting 68 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:08.520 us with such a bizarre and unusual tale. Hannibal. The 69 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:13.479 cannibal always gets people interested when you mentioned cannibalism for 70 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:17.480 some reason. So let's just get right get to this. 71 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:22.759 Tell us a little bit about Robert Maudsley was born 72 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:28.360 in June nineteen fifty three and in Liverpool. Tell us 73 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:33.319 about the living conditions his parents, Robert and Jean, and 74 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:36.560 his siblings. Tell us a little bit about the family 75 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:43.319 life and before you talk about them being placed into adoption. 76 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:51.120 Well, he was definitely one of those that had a 77 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.639 rough childhood. They were in Liverpool, but South Park, which 78 00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:00.079 is talks death. That is an area where there's a 79 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:07.600 lot of social housing for World War two families and 80 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:10.399 relocated immigrants and stuff, so it's a pretty it's a 81 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:16.000 pretty poor area and run down. Now. He was one 82 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:20.360 of twelve kids, so there was a lot of kids 83 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:24.240 in the family, but not a good good upbringing. He 84 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:29.879 ended up in an orphanage. I think three times in 85 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:33.439 his young life, and once he was taken away by 86 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:39.279 social services, so it was kind of a poor upbringing. 87 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:47.839 He he claims that his father would beat him, beat 88 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.920 him with a pole, with sticks, even a rifle, a 89 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:56.040 twenty two caliber, and he also claims that he would 90 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:58.639 be locked in his room for months at a time. 91 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:04.560 He also claimed that his father had raped him. So 92 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:11.439 in his claims or explanations of his young life, it 93 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:17.199 was pretty struggled right from the get go, like I said, 94 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:24.279 in and out of all sorts of different orphanages and 95 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:28.279 a Catholic church, and it was a pretty rough start. 96 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:34.279 You write that before he was two, and this has 97 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:38.839 to add to his psychological background and make up. Before 98 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:42.160 he was two, his parents had placed Robert and three 99 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:44.600 of his siblings in a Roman Catholic orphanage, or that 100 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.199 actually not placed them, They were taken due to claims 101 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:51.360 of neglect, the parental neglect. So this was a Robert 102 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:55.439 Paul Kevin and his sister Brenda, and they lived at 103 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:59.680 this Nazareth house for you right to almost six or 104 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:04.439 seven years. But they said they were acclaimed they were 105 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.920 treated well by authorities. This is a new one for 106 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:10.439 true crime. Listeners. They were treated well by authorities at 107 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:13.519 the orphanage and they had a pretty good family bond 108 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.720 according to them, to their reports, and then the parents 109 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.920 brought them back home. And you say that Robert was 110 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:24.920 especially targeted by the abusive father. You say not only rape, 111 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:28.600 but beatings and sexual abuse, but he seemed to be 112 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:35.639 especially targeted from his father for abuse. What's next for 113 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:39.639 Robert Maudsley at a young age? What does he do 114 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:40.759 and what does he resort to? 115 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.240 Yeah, yeah, you know, And it is true. They did 116 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:49.480 say that they really enjoyed the one orphanage and had 117 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:54.079 bonds and stuff, and even his brother made the claim 118 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:58.279 that when the parents would come visit them, he felt 119 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.120 like they were strangers. They were just people that they 120 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:04.920 knew nothing about. So it was a totally different and 121 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:10.120 lifestyle all of them. But by the time Robert was sixteen, 122 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:14.519 he decided to head to London, you know, got away 123 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:17.920 from home and went to the big city and he 124 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:21.279 ended up living, you know, on the street and doing 125 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:26.720 drugs and getting involved in life as a rent boy. 126 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:31.399 So he would sell himself for sex to men with 127 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:36.440 money and he continued doing that for a few years. 128 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:43.679 And during that time, he overdosed, he attempted suicide, he 129 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:49.960 ended up in rehab. Like life was not any better there. 130 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.080 He was just on his own in a big city 131 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.480 and had control over the money he was making. So 132 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:01.679 there was no more parents or orphans to decide where 133 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.159 he'd eat, or where he'd live or sleep, or who 134 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.639 he'd be with. So it wasn't getting any better. It 135 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:12.320 was just continuing how it was at home. But he 136 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:13.159 was on his own. 137 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:18.639 You're right that he was free by nineteen seventy three. 138 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.960 In that he was not. He was in and out 139 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:25.480 of various hospitals, but you say he was free by 140 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:29.159 nineteen seventy three, and again working as a prostitute rent boy, 141 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.039 and then he meets up with a person named John Ferrell. 142 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:36.799 Tell us about this meeting and what happens. 143 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.879 Well, John Farrell had recently divorced from his wife, and 144 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.639 John Ferrell had a bisexual tendency, so that caused a 145 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:51.600 lot of problems in his marriage. So he was recently single, 146 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.799 and so he would go down to the main streets 147 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.279 of London and pick up rent boys, and Robert was 148 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:02.279 one of them. And he liked raw because not only 149 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:06.840 in his looks, his body frame, but his mannerisms and 150 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:11.679 his behavior. So he really enjoyed being with Robert, and 151 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:18.000 they probably were together almost every week for about five 152 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:22.559 to six months. John Ferrell would pick him up whenever 153 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.120 he got back from work. He was kind of a 154 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:27.320 labor or construction person, so he would go away on jobs. 155 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.159 So now the one time in nineteen seventy three, probably 156 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.799 there I don't know how many dates they'd already had 157 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:39.919 by then, quite a few. He picked him up and 158 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:44.519 took him home. And this time it was different. After 159 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.000 they started being together for a little while, John got 160 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:49.960 up and pulled out of his drawer a big pile 161 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.879 of pictures of a younger boys and they were in 162 00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:01.799 different sexual positions and they were being were being hard 163 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.159 to describe in the pictures, they were being forced to 164 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.360 do things. It was it was the pictures portrayed that 165 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.720 they were being raped. I'm not sure that they were 166 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:20.679 real rapes or real bondage pictures, but that's what they portrayed. Now, 167 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.559 according to Maudsley, he he was forced to look at 168 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.559 them and he he was John Farrell was trying to 169 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:33.279 have sex with him involving these pictures, and that, uh, 170 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:36.240 it was too close to home, and I think it 171 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:39.519 brought him back to the time where he was, you know, 172 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.840 being raped and assaulted by his father and being attacked 173 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:48.039 and and he had a real, uh, real psychological problem 174 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:51.759 dealing with this, and so he blew off Blue a stack. 175 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:55.360 He went he went crazy, and he ended up attacking 176 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:57.639 John Ferrell and killing him. 177 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:00.279 Right. 178 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:04.799 So, and of course that's how he first got arrested 179 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.879 for a murder and was put on trial. 180 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.159 Yeah, you talk about that. He was arrested, but he 181 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:17.399 was deemed unfit, considered unfit to stand trial and sent 182 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:22.240 to the I don't know, I guess infamous Broadmoor Hospital 183 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:28.080 for the criminally insane. Now with fast forward, unless we 184 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:33.600 can talk about Broadmoor Hospital, but tell us about Brodmore 185 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:39.120 Hospital where he is placed and then nineteen seventy seven, 186 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:43.639 what happens with Robert and a fellow inmate, David Cheeseman. 187 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.480 Right, Well, you know what I can say about Broadmore 188 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:52.960 is broad Moore is a very strict, structured, well run 189 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:57.799 hospital for insane criminals. So these are all people that 190 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.840 have committed primes. So this isn't just for people that 191 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:07.000 are are insane. Period, You've had to have done something 192 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:09.799 so he was placed in there. Now I want to 193 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.879 bring up this because this is this is very important 194 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.799 later in the story, and I think it's a part 195 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.159 that you don't want to miss, you know. You see 196 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:25.600 when he talked about how much he enjoyed his time 197 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:30.559 in the orphanage and uh and this this relates to 198 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:36.000 this the hospital. He loved being in hospital. He loved 199 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.919 checking himself in as well. In his time as a 200 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:42.919 rent boy, I think he found life outside of a 201 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:49.519 hospital uncontrollable and he felt he felt tortured, you know, 202 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.840 with his parents, with his family in London, being a 203 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.559 rent boy, all all of outside life was was just 204 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.320 wild to him and he couldn't seem to rein it 205 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.480 in and it cost him to do a lot of drugs. 206 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:06.879 When he was in the hospitals, he felt very at peace, 207 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:10.200 at ease, and he felt like his life was structured 208 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:15.600 and he seemed to really enjoy that lifestyle. So going 209 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:20.080 to Broadmore was something that he really liked and he 210 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.919 wanted to stay there. He did not want to go 211 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.679 anywhere else. And I think that's important to say because 212 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.759 according to him, throughout the story, you'll hear that crimes 213 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:34.519 that he committed a lot of times he used that 214 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:41.559 as his kind of his original plan of why he 215 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.759 did it like that that was kind of his goal 216 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:47.360 was to get to a hospital. So it's a bizarre 217 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:49.559 way of looking at things. But as you go through 218 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.799 and if you read the book, you'll read in parts 219 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.320 where he sort of talks about that a lot. 220 00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:00.519 You know, Now, despite what you're saying about that, he 221 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:04.120 was at you know, at peace, at peace or more 222 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:08.639 so anyway at peace in this hospital nineteen seventy seven, 223 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.639 and there's a person named David Francis. Now Robert and 224 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:19.559 fellow inmate David Cheeseman know David Francis as a convicted pedophile, 225 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:23.519 but also you right that he had been They had 226 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.879 said that he had sexually assaulted, that David Francis had 227 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:31.720 sexually assaulted a friends, a friend of theirs. Now, I say, 228 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:37.399 despite this peace that had overcome Robert Maudsley, what does 229 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.960 he and David Cheeseman do one day in nineteen seventy seven. 230 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.480 Well, yeah, well, in reference to the piece too, I 231 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.320 think in his mind he thought he was he had 232 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.639 life in control when he was in the hospital, So 233 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.360 it didn't mean that he didn't want to kill so 234 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.000 I don't want you to think that what I'm thinking. 235 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.639 What I'm saying is, see, he had a real issue 236 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.879 with the first person killed and what got him into 237 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.480 the hospital, John Ferrell, because of the abuse of children. 238 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.879 David Francis was the same way. He was a convicted pedophile, 239 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:18.480 so they became aware of him because of raping a friend. 240 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:24.840 But it was this pedophilia that really drew and drove 241 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:31.679 Maudsley into wanting to kill him. Wanted him to punish him. 242 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:36.240 So when the two of them, Cheeseman and Maudsley grabbed Francis, 243 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.840 they had pre planned this and they had taken apart 244 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:45.440 little pieces of a radio so they could plug the 245 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.039 lock of the office. So what they did was they 246 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.840 grabbed him and dragged him into the office and broke 247 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:56.519 the lock off so that people couldn't get in. So 248 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:58.720 the nurses and the few guards there and a lot 249 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:02.360 of the inmates see in and could hear what was 250 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.599 going on, but they couldn't get in. So they had 251 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:08.759 sort of preset this up, and so what they did 252 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.079 was they tied him and they tortured him, and they 253 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.279 made him in great deal of pain and scream out 254 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.319 and yell, and they did this for about eight to 255 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:25.359 nine hours, and then they grouted him, or Maudsley himself 256 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.640 garrouted him on the throat. So that's how they killed him. 257 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:38.559 So the whole intention was to make him feel punished, 258 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.240 to torture him, and to make him feel a pain 259 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.960 for what he inflicted into the kids when he was 260 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:52.640 convicted pedophile. So that was his goal behind that. He wasn't. 261 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:57.039 It's just really hard to explain in that way. I'm 262 00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:59.880 just trying to put you in his mind of he 263 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.839 thought he was doing something good. 264 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:11.359 Yeah, you talk about this, the horror of these people, 265 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.240 the nurses, the guards and the other inmates listening to 266 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:20.039 this man's screams for almost the entire nine hours, and 267 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.240 you say they were punching, kicking, and cutting him with 268 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.440 their homemade knives they made from this radio and these 269 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.440 plastic spoons that they had. And this is the other 270 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.240 thing they'd had. They had plastic known plastic knives, but 271 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:36.079 they had plastic spoons. But if they fashioned them a 272 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:38.720 certain way, cut them down the middle, they'd have the 273 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:46.799 equivalent of a knife in prison terms. What happens with 274 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.799 them with the David Francis after they garat him and 275 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:57.480 make sure that he's absolutely dead. What else happens after 276 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:01.680 that concerning Robert Maudsley. 277 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:07.160 Well, you know, with that, they were both arrested and 278 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:12.799 charged with murder, and this time what they did was 279 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:17.400 they give them a criminal trial, so they were both 280 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:24.720 convicted and held accountable. So in the UK, he wasn't 281 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:30.039 found you know, criminally insane like their version of that. 282 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:35.359 So the big change was this was the second killing 283 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.119 that he had done. So what they ended up doing 284 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:42.119 was sending him to a regular prison. And of course 285 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.920 they didn't just choose a regular, average prison. They put 286 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.799 him in a category A prison which is for the killers, 287 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:54.359 the worst killers. And actually the people in Wakefield are 288 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:58.960 usually the most notorious. They are the worst of the worst, 289 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.039 and in some cases they are just the most popular. 290 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.960 People that have garnered a lot of media attention are 291 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.759 also put in there. So it is the you know, 292 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:16.799 the highest and the roughest prison. And so he was 293 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.440 sentenced to there in July of nineteen seventy eight, and 294 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:25.720 he absolutely hated it and he just couldn't take it. 295 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:29.039 He hated the life there and he wanted to go 296 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:31.119 back to Broadmoor. He wanted to go back to the 297 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:35.559 hospital where he felt in his mind at peace. 298 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:43.759 So sorry, let's go back though, because what we have 299 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:47.039 to determine is he comes to Wakefield with his reputation, 300 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:53.160 with these nicknames, with this mythology behind him, this unusual 301 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:57.319 event that happened with this murder. And when I asked 302 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.680 you what happened next, and we talked about they were arrested, 303 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.240 but we didn't talk about the horror, the very first thing, 304 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:07.319 that the thing that cemented him into true crime history. 305 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.039 What else was done? And what did the guards find 306 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:17.599 and where does he get this reputation from? 307 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:24.000 Okay, well, you know during the murder, a lot of 308 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:29.240 the prison guards and a lot of the nurses and 309 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:34.079 and and and other inmates were able to see it 310 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:39.680 as well as hear it. And so what happened was 311 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:48.079 how do I say this? He he would he would 312 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:54.160 get accused of being like eating parts of the body, 313 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:02.480 and and that came from one of the guards, and 314 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.440 you know, so they ended up calling him what spoons 315 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:10.480 I believe was the first next nickname, and then blew 316 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:16.000 and it was never confirmed, but what it was was 317 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:22.240 when he when you were reading the opening description, you 318 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:27.000 know that the head was sliced open and spoon was 319 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:33.720 placed into the brain of the victim, and one of 320 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.200 the guards had claimed that he saw Maudsley eating the brain, 321 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:42.799 but Maudsley denied that claim and said that what he 322 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:46.640 did was he did this because he wanted to be 323 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:50.720 found insane and. 324 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:54.680 Said that back to Broadmoor Hospital obviously. 325 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:58.000 Yeah, right, right, So because he thought that that makes 326 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.519 him knuts, that makes them insane. If he does something 327 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:05.599 like that, he hasn't got his right mind. So it's 328 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.839 not something that would you would put a person in 329 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:13.240 prison for. So his intention was to kill this man 330 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.799 and make it look like he was insane while killing 331 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:20.400 him and eating the brain. And so this sort of 332 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.920 would send him back to a mental institute like Broadmoor. 333 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:28.200 He's not going to be kept in a prison. 334 00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:35.400 Right now, you talk about the he sentenced to life 335 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:40.680 imprisonment and he sent to Wakefield and he has his reputation. 336 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.279 Now this is July nineteen seventy eight. This is only 337 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.359 not much more than a year later, right did He 338 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:51.880 started making the start of the day by making paper 339 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:57.559 coffins and placing human hair inside them, and he targets 340 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:03.000 someone named Selney Darwood tell us a little bit about 341 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:08.400 Sonny Darwood and what happens that morning between them. 342 00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:16.039 Yeah, well Darwood was another convicted you know, pedophile and 343 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:22.759 rapist and this was again a target of his no 344 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:26.480 matter what. And so Sell Darwood was the forty six 345 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:32.960 year old and he was one of many that Monestlely 346 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:37.559 had targeted. So it isn't just a random act. But 347 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:40.319 he would in the morning after the workout, he would 348 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:44.519 he would go out looking for people and and he 349 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.119 tried to lure a few of the people that he 350 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.240 had targeted into his cell, you know, with different reasons, 351 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:57.359 you know, drugs or who knows. Sell Darwood. He was 352 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:02.680 able to get back into a cell. We're not sure 353 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:09.000 exactly why, but Maudsley quickly stabbed him and in the 354 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:13.799 back and the neck, the head, and when he fell 355 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.920 on the floor he was bleeding. He rolled him over 356 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.079 and then he stabbed him again in the chest in 357 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:21.000 the face, so he really you know, he was a 358 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:27.599 real rage killing. And then then to finish it all off, 359 00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:34.519 he had strings that he had hidden under his mattress, 360 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:37.440 kind of like shoe string styles, and so he wrapped 361 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.079 it around his neck and he held it for several 362 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:43.200 minutes because he wanted to make sure he was dead. 363 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.880 And so after that, of course, he tied it into 364 00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.880 a bowl, a bowl, you know, like a you know, 365 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.480 for the string around his neck, and they rolled the 366 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.440 body under under the bunk, washed his hands, and then 367 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.400 went back out into general population as if nothing happened. 368 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:09.759 You write that he is looking for other victims. He's 369 00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:14.440 not satiated by that one murder. He's asking other people 370 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.119 to come to a cell under different pretenses, but people 371 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.920 are not coming to the cell. Then he finds someone 372 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:25.359 he never met before named Bill Roberts, fifty six years old, 373 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.200 and he's in his cell, sleeping with his face down. 374 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:36.079 So what does Robert Maudsley do now, Well, it. 375 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:40.720 Was his opportunity. He was, you know, later in letters 376 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.240 he talked about this as his goal was to get 377 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.119 back to broad More Mental Institute. But while he was 378 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.440 going to while he was going to do something to 379 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.559 put himself back in the hospital, he was selecting people 380 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:57.039 he wanted dead. They didn't deserve to live. And it 381 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.799 was all about the child abuse. So it seemed like 382 00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:02.839 it's intention was I'm going to take out as many 383 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:08.079 of these pedophiles as possible in a grotesque way and 384 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:13.640 get put back into a hospital by doing it. So 385 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.160 that's his mindset. So when he comes across Roberts, Roberts 386 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:22.319 was sleeping in a cell, like you said, so it 387 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:24.960 was a perfect opportunity. And he was a fifty six 388 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:32.079 year old that was again another convicted pedophile and killer, 389 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.920 and so he was sleeping, so it was perfect. You know, 390 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:40.519 he was able to get right into the cell without 391 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:45.200 him hearing. And he again started stabbing him in the back, 392 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:50.039 the back of the head, turning him over and stabbing 393 00:27:50.119 --> 00:27:52.480 him in the front, the chain, you know, the face, 394 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:57.640 the chest, the whole works, and he would do it. 395 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.480 And the beginning statement when you were reading, it's part 396 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.039 of the first part of the book, you know, where 397 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:04.880 he's just like stabbing him so harsh that the uh, 398 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.599 lifeless bodies just laying Then it's twitching and all sorts 399 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:14.640 of parts of the flesh are coming out and and 400 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.519 blood and it's flying all through the room. And then 401 00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:20.160