WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Life can be a slippery slope sometimes, and today's part

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<v Speaker 1>two coverage of Fred and Rose west Story is one

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<v Speaker 1>of those where every time something happens, you think that

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<v Speaker 1>things couldn't possibly get any worse, but somehow they do.

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<v Speaker 1>Be sure to hit up part one before moving forward

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<v Speaker 1>with listening to this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this.

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<v Speaker 1>Is Wicked and Grim, a true grum podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Morning Post.

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<v Speaker 1>Listeners just question that much.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, we better start apologizing right now because I hit record.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, You're sorry for what? You know what I

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<v Speaker 1>was get so much flack. I'm pretty sure though, you

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<v Speaker 1>were the last one to do a part two. I

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<v Speaker 1>we're back with a part two. You know we made

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<v Speaker 1>you wait. The time is here. You don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>wait any longer. You made it. We all did it.

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<v Speaker 2>We did it. It's worth it. Sometimes the suspense builds,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Yeah, I think this day and age, we're

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<v Speaker 2>all too accustomed to just having seasons of shows dropped

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<v Speaker 2>on TV and we watched it all at once. Mm hmm,

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<v Speaker 2>so that suspense building is good once in a while.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I must say, hopefully I can find this now

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<v Speaker 1>I discovered and okay, I love this when I discovered

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<v Speaker 1>shit and like, share something with you because it so

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<v Speaker 1>happens just never.

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<v Speaker 2>It so happens just ever.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just a rarity.

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<v Speaker 2>Gotcha, Well, what do you have to share with me?

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<v Speaker 1>You just so, I had found out that Spotify does

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<v Speaker 1>like Q and a's or something on specific like you

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<v Speaker 1>can put a question and out on a specific episode

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<v Speaker 1>of a podcast yep, And so they had just randomly

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<v Speaker 1>like did some for us, and it was I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was like, what did you think about this episode? Right? Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>someone did say that they said loved it and multipart

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<v Speaker 1>multiple part cases. I agree that our society doesn't wait

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<v Speaker 1>for things anymore, and I can be guilty of that too,

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<v Speaker 1>but I definitely like the two part cases because it

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<v Speaker 1>does make me more excited for the next episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Hell, yes, who said that?

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<v Speaker 1>This was Samantha Ray Taylor.

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<v Speaker 2>Samantha, you hit the nail on the head.

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<v Speaker 1>So there, you know what. I'm just like making you

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<v Speaker 1>guys live your best life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, patience is a virtue. It's a muscle. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>flex very often. We're going to make you do it

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<v Speaker 2>once in a while. Here, We're sorry, but we're also

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<v Speaker 2>not At.

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<v Speaker 1>The same time, and also thank you for people who

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<v Speaker 1>notice our Q and A before we did.

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<v Speaker 2>No kidding, and thank you for bringing it forward to me,

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm someone who prides myself on my social media

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<v Speaker 2>knowledge and I had no fucking clue about this. I

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<v Speaker 2>did not know that Spotify had this integrated into their

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<v Speaker 2>system whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>So my mind is, well, I found it so randomly too,

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<v Speaker 1>because I always go to the last episode to see

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<v Speaker 1>who we thanked for our patreons. Yep, our patrons. I

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<v Speaker 1>always I get that backwards, our patrons, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is this is? Why is it asking me a question?

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<v Speaker 1>I could have responded if I wanted, And then yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I looked into it was really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So if you guys want to go answer some

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<v Speaker 2>comments on Patreon, we're going to be putting that up

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<v Speaker 2>more often.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, different questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Just so you guys do know. Though. We have had

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<v Speaker 2>a couple people comment requests on Spotify. Feel free to

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<v Speaker 2>do that. We're just not going to make those with public.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll just take those put them into our book so

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<v Speaker 2>we are seeing them, we are hearing them. Feel free

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<v Speaker 2>to do it. It's just not going to be made

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<v Speaker 2>part on Spotify, if that.

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<v Speaker 1>Makes sense, yeah, okay absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>Speaking of which, because we just talked about people being

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<v Speaker 2>awesome and discovering things.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, be new patrons.

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<v Speaker 2>We have people who discovered our patreon this week. We do,

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<v Speaker 2>we do. We have Kelly Crinnan, Eric Brethauer, and Prissy Velasquez.

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<v Speaker 1>Awesome, thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 2>So, thank you so much. We got the month end

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<v Speaker 2>coming up, so they're going to get a exclusive episode

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<v Speaker 2>over there.

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<v Speaker 1>Holy heck, when is the month end?

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't it like the twenty fifth today or twenty seventh?

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<v Speaker 2>There we go?

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<v Speaker 1>Holy shit, I forgot about that. Are you on that?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm on it. Don't worry, I've got a cool episode

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<v Speaker 2>coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I've just been living under a Fred

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<v Speaker 1>and Rose west Rock.

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<v Speaker 2>That does not sound like a very nice place.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it actually has been hell on earth. These people

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<v Speaker 1>are something else. And if you thought last week's episode

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<v Speaker 1>was rough, this one is so rough.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you give us a quick rundown on how last

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<v Speaker 2>episode did play out?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so I did a little intro. But if you're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to this, this is a part two episode, so

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<v Speaker 1>you need to go back to the following episode and

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<v Speaker 1>listen to that one first or else. None of this

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<v Speaker 1>will make any.

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<v Speaker 2>Sense fair enough.

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<v Speaker 1>So we left off last episode with Rose pregnant and

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<v Speaker 1>the family moving into their forever home. It was twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five Cremwell Street. We talked about both Fred and Rose,

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<v Speaker 1>how they experienced sexual abuse within their households growing up,

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<v Speaker 1>which is very unfortunate, and how pregnant Anne McFall, Charmaine

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<v Speaker 1>and Rena had already fallen victim to this notorious couple.

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<v Speaker 1>So then the family was living on the ground floor

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<v Speaker 1>of their new home and renting out the other bedrooms,

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<v Speaker 1>and after Rose gave birth to their second daughter, May June,

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<v Speaker 1>Rose found another way to make some additional money. And

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<v Speaker 1>that was where I was apparently an asshole and stopped

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<v Speaker 1>the episode. So does that all ring a bell?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So this is where we're starting, Okay. So she

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<v Speaker 1>had a room upstairs that was called Rose's Room. She

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<v Speaker 1>was the only one with the key to this room,

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<v Speaker 1>and within said room she would conduct her sex work

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<v Speaker 1>to both men and women with encouragement from Fred. Outside

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<v Speaker 1>was a red light that would be turned on when

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<v Speaker 1>no one in the household was to disturb Rose and

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<v Speaker 1>whoever she had in that room with her. Now, something

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't even put in here, and we just do

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<v Speaker 1>that so often we don't have an inner notes. But

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<v Speaker 1>then just little things remind us of stuff. There were

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<v Speaker 1>also allegedly holes in this in the wall I guess

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<v Speaker 1>of this room. Oh no, that Fred could look in Okay, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Mean not that that's great, but that's not what I

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<v Speaker 2>was I was thinking worse. I was thinking of glory.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you went that, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I assumed you were talking gloryholes.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it was people, peoples? Is that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? People?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? I was like, all of a sudden, that sounded

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<v Speaker 1>it's sexually gross, but I don't think it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, the intent is is there still?

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<v Speaker 1>But no one is ever going to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>say the word people without thinking about Fred and Rose Westna.

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<v Speaker 2>The word peep is not inherently dirty. People are just

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<v Speaker 2>going to look at those little like marshmallow peeps on

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<v Speaker 2>Easter coming up?

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<v Speaker 1>All great?

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<v Speaker 2>Those are disgusting.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually don't even know if I've had one.

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<v Speaker 2>You haven't had a peep? No, okay, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be trying peeps.

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<v Speaker 1>You just said they were absolutely disgusting. What on earth

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<v Speaker 1>do I want to try one?

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<v Speaker 2>Because you have to know how disgusting they are.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, it doesn't just isn't it just a marshmallow?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a shitty ass marshmallow. Okay, It's like if Lucky

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<v Speaker 2>Charms was super old and super squishy. Oh gross, that's

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<v Speaker 2>what a peep is.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So her work with her male clients seemed to

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<v Speaker 1>go well without a hitch, but Rose's female clients had

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<v Speaker 1>a different story to tell. They said that Rose always

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<v Speaker 1>took things further, and when Fred joined them, he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>do anything to hold her back. Instead, both of them

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to enjoy taking things further than the women were

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<v Speaker 1>comfortable going, and their sexual activities always seemed to be

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<v Speaker 1>based around dominating their partners. They're into dominating.

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<v Speaker 2>Gotcha that whole I don't know. I kind of mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>it last on that alpha mentality sort of thing. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So by nineteen seventy seven, Rose's father was back

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<v Speaker 1>into their lives, but when he found out that Rose

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<v Speaker 1>was a sex worker, the response wasn't a good one. Apparently,

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<v Speaker 1>instead of trying to help his daughter, her own father

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly started buying her services too. Oh, which, honestly, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. I have like a lot of trouble believing that.

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<v Speaker 1>But it wasn't like numerous reports. Oh but remember he

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<v Speaker 1>did sexually abuse her as a child. Yeah, so I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, it's really disturbing.

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<v Speaker 2>That. I mean, not that. Oh that's just like the

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<v Speaker 2>sexual abuse. Don't get me wrong, that's horrible. But for

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<v Speaker 2>some reason, the purchasing of it makes it seem almost

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<v Speaker 2>worse because I can guarantee you she's not willing. Still,

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<v Speaker 2>It's almost like she has to pretend she's willing in

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<v Speaker 2>this case, which makes it feel worse. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well she would still like she's still all throughout

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<v Speaker 1>this whole story. Really, she's still very young, right yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Oh that's a whole yeah basket. I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to unpack.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, alay, just carry on here, please do. By nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighty three, Rose had given birth to eight children. At

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<v Speaker 1>least three of those were from her clients. They were

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<v Speaker 1>not all Fred's kids. Fred treated them like they were

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<v Speaker 1>his own, and even covered their tracks by telling them

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<v Speaker 1>that they look differently to their other siblings because Fred's

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<v Speaker 1>great grandmother had been a woman of color.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I mean, I mean that in itself is

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<v Speaker 2>a nice thing to ensure that people don't feel different,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's like no, we're still family regardless, right, That,

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<v Speaker 2>just regardless of who it's coming from, is a nice sentiment.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I can't think anything out of that

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<v Speaker 1>guy's mouth is nice, But I guess.

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<v Speaker 2>I like to play Devil's advocate.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, he's at least making everyone feel like they're

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<v Speaker 1>part of something. Oh, I don't know anyway, Good God,

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<v Speaker 1>this whole episode's going to just be like, yeah, just bad. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So that didn't mean that he treated any of the

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<v Speaker 1>children well. When each of them turned seven, they were

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<v Speaker 1>given a long list of chores that they had to

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<v Speaker 1>do every day. They weren't allowed to spend time with

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<v Speaker 1>friends outside of the house unless either Fred or Rose

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<v Speaker 1>went with them, and if they broke any of these

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<v Speaker 1>many rules, they'd get punished. Rose eventually dished out the punishments,

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<v Speaker 1>and they often always included some level of physical abuse.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool not, This episode's really rough.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel I should probably.

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<v Speaker 1>Have actually done maybe an extra what are those called

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning disclosure or disclaimer.

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<v Speaker 2>A disclosure signing, a non disclosure agreement for this episode,

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<v Speaker 2>can't talk about it?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. Well, honestly, maybe that's needed, but potentially

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<v Speaker 1>so Rose made a point of not hurting the children

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere that would be visible, making the abuse harder to

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<v Speaker 1>notice and harder to track. Anytime they received any injury

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<v Speaker 1>that had to be treated at the hospital, Rose would

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<v Speaker 1>tell the staff that they'd gotten into an accident at home,

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<v Speaker 1>and no incident reports were ever filled out or reporter

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<v Speaker 1>reported to social services, which is very unfortunate. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. I feel like some lots of times people

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<v Speaker 1>just think people are good. I don't think I think

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<v Speaker 1>back in the day, like in the seventies, nowadays people

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<v Speaker 1>might question that more. I feel like in the hospital

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<v Speaker 1>maybe because we know like how bad things can be.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean there is that too, but also back

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<v Speaker 2>then kids were outside riding bikes for h their trees, and.

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<v Speaker 1>They had way more like freedom actually kind of yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And also the physical discipline from a parent, like you know, get.

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<v Speaker 1>Your asked, whooping you know, right, you actually could, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you actually got spankings kind of thing exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So there was that line was a little more blurred then.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know, I was like always off on my

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<v Speaker 1>own doing god knows what. Yeah, same, and that's nothing

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<v Speaker 1>like ill about my parents at all. But it's just

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<v Speaker 1>like I don't know, I think nowadays, like I guess

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<v Speaker 1>people are more bad things happen. We're more aware and

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<v Speaker 1>stuff and so yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well I know like for myself, Like as a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>I would be riding up and down the dirt road

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<v Speaker 2>in front of my house, like half a klometer away.

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<v Speaker 2>My friend and I would ride our bikes towards each

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<v Speaker 2>other with sticks if we would stick our sticks in

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<v Speaker 2>our bike spokes trying to knock the other person off

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<v Speaker 2>the bike. Like we had joust with sticks on our bikes. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>good times. Slings a lot about me. Actually now they

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<v Speaker 2>look back on it, doesn't it a little bit?

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<v Speaker 1>Actually even with wildlife, I just remember too, like we

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<v Speaker 1>kind of lived somewhere where there was a hill right

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<v Speaker 1>behind us and like a lot of bears in the area, yea,

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<v Speaker 1>And there'd be bears in our yard all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>and like there'd be one in there and then it's gone,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'd be like and my Mom's like, oh, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a bear there, And I'm like, well, I'll just like

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<v Speaker 1>be still outside, but I'll stick close to the deck.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it wasn't a big deal that a bear five

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<v Speaker 1>fucking minutes ago was just in the yard like I'm

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<v Speaker 1>still going outside.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, what do you always say? I digress, we digress.

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<v Speaker 2>I digress, we digress. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So apparently not even Fred was safe from Rose's

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<v Speaker 1>physical punishments. In nineteen seventy four, he found himself the

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<v Speaker 1>wrong end of a knife as Rose chased him around

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<v Speaker 1>the house. He managed to himself behind a door and

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<v Speaker 1>closed it, but Rose still went for him. The knife

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<v Speaker 1>ended up sticking into the door, and Rose actually slid

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<v Speaker 1>her hand down it, almost slicing three of her very

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<v Speaker 1>own fingers off. Ooh ouch Rose, you yeah you felt that? Eh? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>I did.

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<v Speaker 1>Rose allegedly grabbed a cloth to stop the bleeding and

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<v Speaker 1>very calmly said to Fred, look what you've done, fella.

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<v Speaker 1>You got to take me to the hospital. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean maybe it wasn't quite that that level. It

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<v Speaker 1>might have been yelling, but who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>Look what you've done, Pella. Now you got to take

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<v Speaker 2>me to the hospital. Tisk tisk.

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<v Speaker 1>So now to step back a bit and explain a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about what was going on within the house,

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<v Speaker 1>oh boy. In nineteen seventy two, when Anna Marie was

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<v Speaker 1>only eight years old, she was sent to the basement

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<v Speaker 1>of the family home and ordered to remove her clothes.

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<v Speaker 1>Friend and Rose then tied her to a mattress, gagged her,

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<v Speaker 1>and Fred went about raping her.

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<v Speaker 2>How old was she? Sorry?

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<v Speaker 1>Eight?

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<v Speaker 2>Holy fuck?

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<v Speaker 1>When he was done, Rose followed Anna Marie to the bathroom,

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<v Speaker 1>laughing at her and saying, I'm sorry. Everyone does it

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<v Speaker 1>to every girl. It's a father's job.

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<v Speaker 2>That makes me sick to my fucking stomach.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yep. And remember that did happen to Rose, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Not that I'm like justifying any of this, because I

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<v Speaker 1>do feel like at that point she would know that's wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Even though that happened to her as a girl, I

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<v Speaker 1>think she would know that what was wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>I was sure, hope so so.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, like we said and last episode, the abuse

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<v Speaker 1>is just carrying on to another generation. Wow, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>just Fred. Rose took part in the abuse too, often

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<v Speaker 1>making Annie Marie do housework with toys inserted inside her

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<v Speaker 1>or trying or tying her to things, and urging Fred

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<v Speaker 1>to rape her. When Anna Marie turned thirteen, they forced

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<v Speaker 1>her to also be a sex worker within the house,

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<v Speaker 1>lying to the clients about her real age.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, what the fuck?

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<v Speaker 1>And I left out some pretty brutal things too, like

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00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:26.679
<v Speaker 1>it worse. Yeah, yeah, Like honestly, reading about some of

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00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.519
<v Speaker 1>this case, it's just like there was just like a

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<v Speaker 1>nod in my fringing throat the whole time, Like it's

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<v Speaker 1>unbelievable what these kids had to go through.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, yeah, and we're just getting started in this episode. Basically, okayeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how well I'm gonna do for the

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<v Speaker 2>remainder of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, you're gonna just hate them, like these people

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<v Speaker 1>are disgusting.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds that way.

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<v Speaker 1>So later that year, they hired a seventeen year old

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<v Speaker 1>nanny named Caroline Owens. Caroline noticed that Anna Marie seemed

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<v Speaker 1>withdrawn and depressed, but she had no idea what was

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<v Speaker 1>going on behind closed doors. She may have been able

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<v Speaker 1>to put two and two together when Fred went about

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<v Speaker 1>forcing himself on her. However, she was able to flee

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<v Speaker 1>the home. According to Fred, both he and Rose knew

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<v Speaker 1>that Caroline often hitchhiked on a Pacific part of a motorway,

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<v Speaker 1>and one day they went out looking for her. So

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<v Speaker 1>she did manage to get away, but now they're searching

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<v Speaker 1>for her. He said that the whole point of going

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00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.839
<v Speaker 1>out and looking for her was actually to see if

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<v Speaker 1>Rose would kidnap someone with him. When they found her,

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<v Speaker 1>they told her that they were very sorry for everything

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00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.039
<v Speaker 1>that happened back at their house, and they offered her

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<v Speaker 1>a lift. She took it, didn't she She unfortunately agreed. Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>She was then taken back to their house, bound, gagged,

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<v Speaker 1>and assaulted by both Fred and Roe. She only managed

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<v Speaker 1>to get away with her life because she led them

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<v Speaker 1>to believe that she wanted to work as their nanny again,

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<v Speaker 1>and she escaped later from a trip to the local laundry.

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<v Speaker 2>Maat, I'm glad she escaped.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so she basically like that's pretty smart. Oh yeah,

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00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.039
<v Speaker 1>because she had just probably experiment experienced one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most traumatic events of her life. And then she went

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<v Speaker 1>about waking up or the next day just being like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be your nanny, like playing with the kids,

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<v Speaker 1>cleaning the house. And then the first opportunity she got,

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00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:37.680
<v Speaker 1>like she still made sure she was like thinking all

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<v Speaker 1>her actions through and she just fled.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, piece the fuck out. Good for her for thinking

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<v Speaker 2>that through and actually bringing it to fruition totally, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's easy to panic in a situation like that. So

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<v Speaker 2>keeping your calm oh yeah, thinking out your steps methodically,

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<v Speaker 2>that takes a lot, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Would agree, yes. So she only managed to get away

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<v Speaker 1>with her life because she led them to believe that

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00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.799
<v Speaker 1>she wants Oh holy shit, I'm just reading the same

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<v Speaker 1>line again.

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00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you are where to go?

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<v Speaker 1>Aha, Sorry, smooth. So she reported the assault to the police,

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00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.880
<v Speaker 1>but it all proved too much as the court date

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<v Speaker 1>drew nearer. Not wanting to face either of her assailants again,

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<v Speaker 1>Caroline dropped the charges and the West were charged with

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00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:28.519
<v Speaker 1>indecent assault and bodily harm. Instead, they received a fifty

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00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:34.359
<v Speaker 1>pound fine and were released. Oh fuck, which is so shitty.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so I mean, she's definitely not to blame.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I know. I'm just like, if at this point,

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<v Speaker 1>if they would just have gone like behind bars, that

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00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.079
<v Speaker 1>would be amazing. I'm not blaming her for anything.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm just clarifying it's not her fault. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's so Jesus. Okay, just punched the microphone pretty much.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, this case rolls me up. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, it's just we see so many cases,

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<v Speaker 2>so many situations, so many instance an incident, instance, instances,

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<v Speaker 2>holy fuck. Where individuals get so intimidated and bullied by

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00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:12.440
<v Speaker 2>these fucking perpetrators that they don't they just want it

383
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:14.119
<v Speaker 2>done and over with. They don't want to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>them anymore, they don't want to see them, hear their

385
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<v Speaker 2>fucking name. So it's just all this power that these

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<v Speaker 2>fucking assholes hold even after the fact, just pisses me off.

387
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, she probably had already spent so much time on

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00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.559
<v Speaker 1>healing or trying to heal, right, oh yeah, and then

389
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.599
<v Speaker 1>going back and having to face them, I'm sure would

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00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:39.039
<v Speaker 1>just it would kind of like, I don't digress you

391
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<v Speaker 1>a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm sure it would.

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<v Speaker 1>Only three months later, the couple would commit their first

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00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:54.720
<v Speaker 1>quotation known murder, nineteen year old Linda Golf. They were

395
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:58.839
<v Speaker 1>familiar with Linda through one of their lodgers. She would

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00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.599
<v Speaker 1>move into the home to take of their children, but

397
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.599
<v Speaker 1>she eventually would go missing, with Fred and Rose telling

398
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.799
<v Speaker 1>the other tenants that she had been fired because she

399
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:14.079
<v Speaker 1>hit one of the children. In nineteen seventy three, a

400
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:18.799
<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old named Carol Ann Cooper went missing after

401
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.359
<v Speaker 1>a trip to the cinema with her boyfriend, and over

402
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.039
<v Speaker 1>the next year and a half, four more girls would

403
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:29.759
<v Speaker 1>go missing, all of them ending up at the wests.

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00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit.

405
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:37.079
<v Speaker 1>So first one Lucy Catherine Partington. She was twenty one

406
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.440
<v Speaker 1>years twenty one years old, sorry, and lasting at a

407
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:47.400
<v Speaker 1>bus stop in Cheltenham. There's strong evidence that Lucy actually

408
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.160
<v Speaker 1>may have been kept alive for several days. A week

409
00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:53.720
<v Speaker 1>after disappearing, Fred went to the hospital to get a

410
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:57.559
<v Speaker 1>cut stitched up. It's believed that he got this injury

411
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:04.839
<v Speaker 1>while dismembering Lucy's b because apparently well at the end

412
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.640
<v Speaker 1>here they found a knife that matched the injury, the

413
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:18.599
<v Speaker 1>injury with her body. So yeah, okay, Teresa, and I'm

414
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:21.599
<v Speaker 1>so sorry, I'm going to be butchering your last name here,

415
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>see seakin Teller. She's also twenty one and was abducted

416
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:30.319
<v Speaker 1>while hitch hiking. So I should just know, like a

417
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:33.359
<v Speaker 1>lot of the people that they did target, like it

418
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:36.759
<v Speaker 1>was through hitch hiking or through them staying lodging at

419
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:40.359
<v Speaker 1>their house, and they kind of targeted people that may

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00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.839
<v Speaker 1>not have been reported as missing right away, right, so

421
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.400
<v Speaker 1>more like vulnerable women.

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00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, almost like wayward individuals kind of thing, people who

423
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.079
<v Speaker 2>are I don't even know if wayward is right word

424
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.680
<v Speaker 2>for it, but people who are I don't know they

425
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:56.720
<v Speaker 2>will be missed right away.

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00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, they just might not. It might not have

427
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.160
<v Speaker 1>been noticed because maybe they're all like often traveling around

428
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:04.680
<v Speaker 1>or something.

429
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Free spirited individuals. That's a way better way of putting it.

430
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Free spirited people who are going to be traveling around

431
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:12.400
<v Speaker 2>their friend's family, don't know where they are at all times,

432
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:13.240
<v Speaker 2>that sort of thing, right.

433
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Shirley Hubbard, she was age fifteen when abducted

434
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.160
<v Speaker 1>from a bus stop. When her remains were found, apparently

435
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.160
<v Speaker 1>her head was completely covered in tape, with only a

436
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:29.400
<v Speaker 1>rubber tube inserted in her nose to allow her to breathe.

437
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:31.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck, could you imagine?

438
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:36.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Wow, Like, just the torture that they were doing

439
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:41.119
<v Speaker 1>to these poor individuals is It's horrible. It's horrible that

440
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.759
<v Speaker 1>there's people out there like this. It is disgusting.

441
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:46.200
<v Speaker 2>One of the worst thing that popped into my mind

442
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:47.720
<v Speaker 2>about that. So I'm going on a little bit of

443
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:52.480
<v Speaker 2>a comedic part here. I'm just thinking, I always have

444
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.839
<v Speaker 2>like one nostril that's clear and one that's not, and

445
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.319
<v Speaker 2>it's switches like every fucking hour, I swear to.

446
00:23:57.319 --> 00:23:59.599
<v Speaker 1>God, good God. Okay, it's like.

447
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.880
<v Speaker 2>A normal thing. Feel your nostrils right now, No, just

448
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.160
<v Speaker 2>cover up a nostril and breathe through one. One's going

449
00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 2>to be more clear than the other. I guarantee it,

450
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I guess. So what if what if you put the

451
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.119
<v Speaker 2>tube in the one that wasn't okay?

452
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Tubes in both? I don't necessarily know for sure, but.

453
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.519
<v Speaker 2>Could you imagine though, Like if you just had a

454
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 2>tube in one nostril, well I breathe that.

455
00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:23.839
<v Speaker 1>I honestly couldn't imagine being in that situation, like because

456
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:27.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually like a more of a mouth breather, which

457
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:28.160
<v Speaker 1>people think is weird.

458
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:30.319
<v Speaker 2>I think you're a mouth breather. That's a negative thing.

459
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:32.920
<v Speaker 2>It's not a negative thing.

460
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:36.279
<v Speaker 1>I literally breathe through my mouth more anyway, but it's

461
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:39.079
<v Speaker 1>negative contentations from name calling and so on and so forth.

462
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 1>That would just be horrible, Like you're in that much

463
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.880
<v Speaker 1>fear and then you can't breathe properly, like I just,

464
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I honestly can't even imagine.

465
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:49.519
<v Speaker 2>I know, I can now imagine only having the one

466
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:51.200
<v Speaker 2>nostril that you can't breathe out of them, and that's it.

467
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're probably just done.

468
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's fucking terrifying.

469
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so one Neita Mott. She was eighteen years

470
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.640
<v Speaker 1>old and a former lodger of twenty five Cromwell Street.

471
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 1>Right after this, in nineteen seventy five, Fred put new

472
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:13.519
<v Speaker 1>concrete down in the cellar of their home and things

473
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.480
<v Speaker 1>seemed to calm down for a little while. Fred turned

474
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 1>the basement into a bedroom for his older children and

475
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:25.759
<v Speaker 1>that was that. But then in nineteen seventy eight, surely Robinson,

476
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 1>a lodger, would go missing. And I'm just gonna say

477
00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:31.640
<v Speaker 1>those three years they were still doing shit. In my opinion,

478
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:33.200
<v Speaker 1>there's no way that they've just had.

479
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:34.440
<v Speaker 2>A three year break crumb.

480
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean sometimes I guess, actually serial killers do have

481
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.400
<v Speaker 1>breaks for certain reasons.

482
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 2>But well, I mean, maybe they were just busy with renovations.

483
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean that the renovations, though.

484
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.599
<v Speaker 2>As casual as that sounds, it's very.

485
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:49.359
<v Speaker 1>Possible they cover up the bodies.

486
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, I'm assuming that's the case.

487
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, they had so many bodies. They're like, we

488
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:56.039
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of renovations to do.

489
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, maybe they are, because renovations take time. They

490
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.359
<v Speaker 2>take time, they take yeah, right, and slowly working on

491
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.039
<v Speaker 2>this sort of thing. It doesn't sound like they're the

492
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.200
<v Speaker 2>individuals who are going to be working all too hard

493
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:09.720
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, so it's probably going to be an extended.

494
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:14.319
<v Speaker 1>Project late at Stereotype. I mean, I'm just saying, Okay,

495
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:20.000
<v Speaker 1>So Shirley Robinson. Shirley developed relationships with both Fred and Rose,

496
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:23.400
<v Speaker 1>and at the time of her disappearance, she was actually

497
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.519
<v Speaker 1>pregnant with Fred's child. No, I mean this guy like

498
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.880
<v Speaker 1>there's I he impregnated a lot of people because he

499
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.799
<v Speaker 1>was He's kind of like a cheater as well. So

500
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.319
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, Rose was also pregnant and apparently

501
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.160
<v Speaker 1>it was not with Fred's child as well. Foolishly, Shirley

502
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.599
<v Speaker 1>thought she could displace displaced. Is that how you say

503
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.960
<v Speaker 1>that Rose and become Fred's new wife.

504
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:52.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, displace Yeah, okay, but.

505
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:53.319
<v Speaker 1>She went missing.

506
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:55.160
<v Speaker 2>But she went missing.

507
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:58.839
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen seventy nine, Fred and Rose took in a

508
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:03.039
<v Speaker 1>seventeen year old girl name Alison Chambers. She'd come to

509
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:05.599
<v Speaker 1>work for the West once again as there live in

510
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:11.319
<v Speaker 1>nanny when she herself would also go missing. The children

511
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>at the West Household were growing up amongst all of

512
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:19.799
<v Speaker 1>this chaos and abuse. By nineteen seventy nine, Anna Marie

513
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.880
<v Speaker 1>had run away from another vicious beating from Rose. She

514
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:27.559
<v Speaker 1>was pregnant at the time, and I think pregnant like

515
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:33.000
<v Speaker 1>with Fred's baby, thankfully, I think what had happened is

516
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.200
<v Speaker 1>the it was like the baby was growing in her

517
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.720
<v Speaker 1>filopian tube or something. So it did have to be terminated.

518
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.799
<v Speaker 1>But maybe that is a good thing, right, that baby

519
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:44.559
<v Speaker 1>was her dad from her dad.

520
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:47.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's yeah, that's a very.

521
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:51.359
<v Speaker 1>That's a touchy subject. It's very touchy. Yeah, but maybe

522
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.519
<v Speaker 1>it just wasn't meant to be, right.

523
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I don't want to say any sort of pregnancy

524
00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:00.759
<v Speaker 2>termination is a good thing. I don't want to say

525
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:07.160
<v Speaker 2>that an individual should or should not terminate, but I mean, yeah,

526
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:13.359
<v Speaker 2>given the father and the situation, yeah, yeah, that's weird.

527
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.319
<v Speaker 1>So natural causes pretty much kind of happened in that one.

528
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, so in this time, it was clear that

529
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.839
<v Speaker 1>she had no intentions of coming back to Fred and Rose.

530
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.799
<v Speaker 1>With her out of the house, Fred shifted his attention

531
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.640
<v Speaker 1>to Heather and May, who were both on the cups

532
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:35.440
<v Speaker 1>cusp of puberty. They'd already experienced sexual abuse at the

533
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:38.799
<v Speaker 1>hands of their father, but with Anna Marie gone and

534
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.279
<v Speaker 1>the both of them now teenagers, things escalated very quickly

535
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.599
<v Speaker 1>after and sometimes during the abuse. Fred would explain his

536
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 1>actions by saying things like I made you, I can

537
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.319
<v Speaker 1>do what I want with you.

538
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he's one of those Hey, I brought you into

539
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:58.960
<v Speaker 2>this world, I can take you out. Fuck off.

540
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.680
<v Speaker 1>He even stated several times that he planned on fathering

541
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:05.759
<v Speaker 1>children with both Heather and May, at least once.

542
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.039
<v Speaker 2>At least once. Yeah, Holy, this.

543
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Just fucking disgusting. Holy shit, it's too much. I'm going

544
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:17.359
<v Speaker 1>to move forward all just.

545
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Kid, you please do, please do.

546
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 1>The abuse was not just something that his daughters had

547
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 1>to endure. Fred didn't sexually abuse his sons, but his

548
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:29.759
<v Speaker 1>first son, Stephen, was told that he would have to

549
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.839
<v Speaker 1>have sex with Rose by the time he was seventeen

550
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.039
<v Speaker 1>or face the consequences. Though from what I could find,

551
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.799
<v Speaker 1>that seemed to have just been a threat. I don't

552
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.240
<v Speaker 1>think that actually happened. I think it was a threat.

553
00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:43.319
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

554
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:48.079
<v Speaker 1>Heather, May and Stephen were all around the same age,

555
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:51.480
<v Speaker 1>and when when the abuse and the threat of abuse

556
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:55.279
<v Speaker 1>in the household ramped up, they did try to stick together, which,

557
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:57.599
<v Speaker 1>good God, that's just so sad.

558
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:00.279
<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine living in a house like that, I.

559
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.200
<v Speaker 1>Know, because like you're a kid, like you don't have

560
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:06.160
<v Speaker 1>anywhere else to go, You don't, you literally don't.

561
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:09.960
<v Speaker 2>And there they probably don't know any better either, especially

562
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.799
<v Speaker 2>the way they're teaching him, like this is what a

563
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.440
<v Speaker 2>father does. Yeah, you just you think that this abuse

564
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 2>is normal. Everyone's going through this, and oh my, I'm

565
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:21.799
<v Speaker 2>overwhelmed with how these kids would fucking feel.

566
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:24.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that just actually made me think back, Like

567
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:27.359
<v Speaker 1>something I hadn't even read was Rose Till Like Anna

568
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.279
<v Speaker 1>Marie was like, yeah, you're lucky that, like you're being

569
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:31.920
<v Speaker 1>taught this and you're going to know how to like

570
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.640
<v Speaker 1>treat and like pleasure your husband and shit, like just

571
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:41.640
<v Speaker 1>fucking disturbing as shit, Like it's so disturbing. So they

572
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:44.279
<v Speaker 1>made a pack, especially when it came to dealing with

573
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 1>their father, and they made a point of never leaving

574
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 1>either Heather or May alone with him. At least one

575
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.640
<v Speaker 1>of them would always go with the girl that Fred

576
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.519
<v Speaker 1>called to make sure that nothing happened.

577
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.480
<v Speaker 2>That's good, that's really good. Holy shit, good on them girls.

578
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:01.599
<v Speaker 1>Well they're just surviving.

579
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Really, yeah, I know.

580
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:07.079
<v Speaker 1>The girls also started only changing clothes and washing whenever

581
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Fred was out of the house or whenever the other

582
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.640
<v Speaker 1>one or Stephen could guard the door.

583
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.920
<v Speaker 2>But this isn't just surviving though, because just surviving is

584
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 2>almost like a self preservation. This is not a self preservation.

585
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.440
<v Speaker 2>This is looking out for each other. Yeah, is much

586
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 2>more than surviving.

587
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Which is really good that they're looking out for each other.

588
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:32.839
<v Speaker 1>So at least say of that. Yeah, this worked to

589
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.400
<v Speaker 1>a certain extent, but it didn't help them on times

590
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:38.359
<v Speaker 1>when Fred did catch them on their own. May later

591
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 1>claimed that she managed to somewhat compartmentalize the abuse. Did

592
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:47.200
<v Speaker 1>I say that compart apartment mentalize the abuse? But Heather was,

593
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:51.039
<v Speaker 1>in May's own words, affected quite badly by all of this.

594
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.480
<v Speaker 1>By the mid nineteen eighties, Heather was showing the telltale

595
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:59.200
<v Speaker 1>signs of physical and sexual abuse, and other people were

596
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:03.599
<v Speaker 1>starting to notice. Yes, Fred and Rose played off Heather's

597
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>behavior as her being a lesbian and even made fun

598
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.400
<v Speaker 1>of her for her symptoms.

599
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Wow, the symptoms they are.

600
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Causing symptoms no, of being a lesbian.

601
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they're they're attributing the symptoms of sexual and

602
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.039
<v Speaker 2>physical and mentals to being.

603
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:23.759
<v Speaker 1>A lesbian, I know, which is ridiculous.

604
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they're saying these sexual abuse, So these abuse symptoms

605
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:30.000
<v Speaker 2>are attributed to being lesbian and now are making fun

606
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:33.400
<v Speaker 2>of you for those symptoms yeh, which are apparently because

607
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:35.799
<v Speaker 2>you're a lesbian. It's like, holy fuck, a, you're causing

608
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:38.359
<v Speaker 2>those b you're lying, and now you're a cee rubbing

609
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:39.119
<v Speaker 2>it in her fucking face.

610
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like they're just discussing.

611
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:46.240
<v Speaker 2>These people can fuck off. Yeah, oh my god. Wow,

612
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, but I'm pissed. Oh yeah, like absolutely fun.

613
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:53.559
<v Speaker 1>We're only halfway through here, dude. So Heather was starting

614
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:57.680
<v Speaker 1>to break her silence and share with close friends her situation.

615
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 1>At the same time, rumors of Rose's sex life had

616
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:06.440
<v Speaker 1>reached several of the children's classmates, and Heather was no

617
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:09.200
<v Speaker 1>longer denying them because that was the rule, like you

618
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:12.319
<v Speaker 1>don't share shit outside of the house. A father of

619
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.519
<v Speaker 1>one of the classmates ended up finding out of these rumors,

620
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:20.119
<v Speaker 1>but he happened to be friends with the Wests. Like

621
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the fact that the West even have friends.

622
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm shah get but people like this tend to be

623
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:28.000
<v Speaker 2>very manipulative too, so they're probably pulling the wool over

624
00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:28.480
<v Speaker 2>his eyes.

625
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:33.480
<v Speaker 1>So soon word reached Fred and Rose that Heather was

626
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.240
<v Speaker 1>divulging some rather disturbing secrets of their home life.

627
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Was she divulging those secrets though she just wasn't denying them.

628
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.079
<v Speaker 1>She wasn't denying, But then she did also talk to

629
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:48.160
<v Speaker 1>some close friends, took about what was going on? Where

630
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:52.680
<v Speaker 1>am I here? So to follow, Heather received several severe

631
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.759
<v Speaker 1>beatings and Fred started walking her to and from school

632
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 1>to make sure that no one approached her, so just

633
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:03.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of guarding her.

634
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:04.839
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, exactly.

635
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Realizing that no one would or could help her, Heather

636
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:11.880
<v Speaker 1>tried to make or to take matters into her own

637
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:14.079
<v Speaker 1>hands and applied for a job that would take her

638
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.599
<v Speaker 1>far away from her parents. When she got the news

639
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.360
<v Speaker 1>that her application had been rejected, Heather apparently broke down

640
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:24.880
<v Speaker 1>into tears and cried the whole night. Being that Heather

641
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:28.440
<v Speaker 1>was no longer in school, May and Stephen had to

642
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:31.320
<v Speaker 1>leave her alone at the home when they went to school.

643
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh No, when the siblings returned one day, Heather was

644
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 1>nowhere to be found.

645
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:38.559
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

646
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:42.599
<v Speaker 1>They were told that there had actually been a mix

647
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:47.119
<v Speaker 1>up and Heather did in fact get that job that

648
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:49.480
<v Speaker 1>she already left, and no one knew when she would

649
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:53.039
<v Speaker 1>be reaching out to the family again. But as the

650
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.800
<v Speaker 1>time passed and Heather didn't reach out to the family.

651
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Fred and Rose had to kind of keep changing the

652
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.239
<v Speaker 1>story because the hits were asking.

653
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I just picture Maury right now, just being like

654
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:06.000
<v Speaker 2>and it's found out that that was a lie.

655
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, they said that Heather and Rose had gotten

656
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:13.639
<v Speaker 1>to a fight and Heather had ran away. They said

657
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Heather had ran away with her girlfriend. So they just

658
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.960
<v Speaker 1>kept kind of changing, and when May and Stephen wanted

659
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.719
<v Speaker 1>to report her missing, Fred told them that Heather had

660
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:26.039
<v Speaker 1>been had actually been involved in fraud.

661
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, But there.

662
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Was also a new family joke going around that Fred

663
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.559
<v Speaker 1>and Rose had started. Whenever the moment struck, they would

664
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:36.599
<v Speaker 1>joke with the children or when they were kind of

665
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:42.079
<v Speaker 1>like disciplining them or giving them shit, and sometimes even

666
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:44.960
<v Speaker 1>to each other, they'd say, you'll end up under the

667
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.000
<v Speaker 1>patio like Heather. That was like the new family joke,

668
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 1>which is really fucking disturbing.

669
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:56.960
<v Speaker 2>How okay, clearly that's not fiction, that's very true. That's

670
00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:01.440
<v Speaker 2>exactly where she is. How would how would that come

671
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:02.239
<v Speaker 2>up to be a joke?

672
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, like say you're in I don't know, they they're

673
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:10.639
<v Speaker 1>sick twisted sense of humor, like they're not normal, right, Oh.

674
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:12.920
<v Speaker 2>No, trusted, I have a sick twisted sense of humor too.

675
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I thought that was funniest shit, I guess.

676
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Because it's based on fact.

677
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>But the kids, the kids didn't believe it either, Like

678
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.079
<v Speaker 1>they didn't believe it.

679
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I know. But my point is clearly it's based on fact,

680
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:27.400
<v Speaker 2>because how do you just make up a joke joke

681
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.599
<v Speaker 2>at a fiction like that? Yeah, that's not a fiction joke,

682
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:35.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, something like that is going to come from fact.

683
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because that is a pretty sick, weird joke to

684
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.760
<v Speaker 1>make up when like your kid is supposedly missing exactly. So,

685
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety two, rumors began circling about a tape

686
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.280
<v Speaker 1>not to do with Heather, who'd been gone almost six

687
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:56.280
<v Speaker 1>years at this point, but about another one of friend's victims,

688
00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:01.000
<v Speaker 1>his now thirteen year old daughter, Louise. It was now

689
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Louise's time to experience hell on Earth. Fred had reportedly

690
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.400
<v Speaker 1>asked her to bring him something. He then raped her,

691
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.920
<v Speaker 1>sodomized her, and partially strangled her. He did this at

692
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.400
<v Speaker 1>least once, or at least another story, three more times,

693
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.039
<v Speaker 1>one of them being in front of Rose, and he

694
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:22.760
<v Speaker 1>had also allegedly filmed one of the.

695
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Incidents, so he was dumb enough to put it on video.

696
00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

697
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Good, well, not good, but good. There's evidence that that's

698
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.880
<v Speaker 2>what I'm leaning towards. That sounded terrible, No, I know

699
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:34.400
<v Speaker 2>what you meant.

700
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.559
<v Speaker 1>So it took Louise several weeks to work up the

701
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.559
<v Speaker 1>courage to tell one of her close friends what had happened.

702
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 1>This friend told her mother, and unlike Heather's Heather confessing this,

703
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:51.239
<v Speaker 1>this parent took the confession to the police, like thank fuck.

704
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, thankfully. Is this where they start getting caught? Yes,

705
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:56.719
<v Speaker 2>thank you fuck yes.

706
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:01.239
<v Speaker 1>Yes. So the case was assigned to very talented and

707
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:07.559
<v Speaker 1>persistent detective or detective constable named Hazel Savage. Pretty sure

708
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.400
<v Speaker 1>that's how you say your last namely her, I think her.

709
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.840
<v Speaker 2>That's a fucking name, and I know, but honestly, like.

710
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:16.519
<v Speaker 1>You would need someone that's just like gonna get shit

711
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:19.119
<v Speaker 1>done with this case, like she really like dig deep

712
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:20.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of oh shit.

713
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Whether it's a female male, anyone in between, because I'm

714
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:24.760
<v Speaker 2>a dude. I'm gonna do a dude's voice here. But

715
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I just picture like a fucking epic action movie being

716
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:32.719
<v Speaker 2>like starring Hazel Savage, like you know, just like fuck yeah,

717
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:36.639
<v Speaker 2>explosions behind them and everything doesn't look back exactly. Aviator

718
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:43.000
<v Speaker 2>shades on, like, fuck yeah, Hazel Savage for the wind o.

719
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.920
<v Speaker 2>My god, I need to change my fucking name.

720
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, Hazel Savage.

721
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:56.199
<v Speaker 2>Fuck yes you. I might need to do it one

722
00:38:56.199 --> 00:38:57.239
<v Speaker 2>more time. I don't know.

723
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Ben is so into this name. Was didn't even put

724
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:03.519
<v Speaker 1>the name in here when I'm how could you put

725
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:06.880
<v Speaker 1>that name in here? I don't really address her much.

726
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:08.679
<v Speaker 1>I think I can say her name one more time

727
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:12.519
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, wow, I mean it's pretty epic, right, Yes

728
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:17.400
<v Speaker 1>it is. Okay, Hazel fucking Savage.

729
00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Cay, I'm done.

730
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, are you a beer? Beer? We got?

731
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:23.920
<v Speaker 2>So?

732
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:27.599
<v Speaker 1>Hazel knew Fred from his days with Rena and remembered

733
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:33.639
<v Speaker 1>the stories that Rena had told her about Fred's sexual perversions,

734
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:38.400
<v Speaker 1>like he's a fucking perv. He's more than he's like

735
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:42.159
<v Speaker 1>sometimes I just want to say so many things, but

736
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:44.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm like torn down. Everyone is on the same page.

737
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:45.679
<v Speaker 1>We all always discussing.

738
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll say it for you. He's a cunt, a big

739
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.800
<v Speaker 2>fucking see you next Tuesday. Yes, Nicole made me. She

740
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:57.079
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't let me say it a second.

741
00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>So this time sea word very often good. So this

742
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:06.000
<v Speaker 1>time the police did visit the house. They told the

743
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.159
<v Speaker 1>West nothing about the call, which is good, so they're

744
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:15.280
<v Speaker 1>like keeping her safe right that they received and actually

745
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:18.239
<v Speaker 1>said they were there looking for stolen goods on the property.

746
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:21.199
<v Speaker 1>And something I haven't really mentioned yet is that Fred

747
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:24.679
<v Speaker 1>did have a petty theft problem because he he needed

748
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.360
<v Speaker 1>money to do all his renovations around the home, right

749
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:32.159
<v Speaker 1>see I said that, Yeah, but the like the renovation.

750
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.000
<v Speaker 1>It's not like a normal like I want to fix

751
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:35.960
<v Speaker 1>my deck. It's like he's fixing his deck because there's

752
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.760
<v Speaker 1>like bodies under the.

753
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Give it regardless of the reason, it takes money resource time,

754
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:47.679
<v Speaker 2>which is probably where that maybe lack of what's the

755
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:51.679
<v Speaker 2>word I'm looking for, perpetration, I guess yeah, fell.

756
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:55.400
<v Speaker 1>The police spent a lot of time going through Fred

757
00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:00.880
<v Speaker 1>and Rose's extensive pornography collection. They didn't find one of Louise,

758
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.639
<v Speaker 1>which is I feel like, probably a good thing. I

759
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:07.840
<v Speaker 1>just that it doesn't get out there, right, Like, No,

760
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:09.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I feel like just no one should

761
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 1>see that.

762
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:10.880
<v Speaker 2>I agreed.

763
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:14.079
<v Speaker 1>But the children of the household were removed from the house,

764
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:18.880
<v Speaker 1>and medical examinations did reveal evidence of both physical and

765
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:23.760
<v Speaker 1>sexual abuse, so glad Fred and Rose faced charges of

766
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.800
<v Speaker 1>rape and child cruelty, and for Roe, she also faced

767
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:31.320
<v Speaker 1>charges of inciting her husband to rape their daughter as well.

768
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:33.320
<v Speaker 1>God the fact that I have to say shit like

769
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:36.199
<v Speaker 1>that and neither of them could get their stories straight

770
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:40.360
<v Speaker 1>about Heather. When the police asked where she was, Fred

771
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 1>claimed that she was a sex worker somewhere, and Roe

772
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:49.079
<v Speaker 1>said she had no idea. After a lengthy interview, Rose

773
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.800
<v Speaker 1>suddenly remembered she'd actually asked Heather to leave the house

774
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.920
<v Speaker 1>because she was afraid that Heather, being a lesbian would

775
00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:00.199
<v Speaker 1>negatively affect the other children. Rose claimed that she she'd

776
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:02.880
<v Speaker 1>even given Heather six hundred pounds to help her set

777
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:06.159
<v Speaker 1>herself up somewhere, but she didn't know where Heather was living.

778
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Now, wow, that is the to quote one of my

779
00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:13.920
<v Speaker 2>favorite movies. That's one big pile of shit.

780
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like Heather was legitimately like her first child. Yeah,

781
00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:23.880
<v Speaker 1>that's so bizarre, Like it's wow. So when Anna Marie

782
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:26.679
<v Speaker 1>found out what was going on, she reached out to

783
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the police with hopes of confirming the abuse. Yes, like

784
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm right on, that's so good. She also told them

785
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:36.800
<v Speaker 1>that even though she'd been trying to reach them for years.

786
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.960
<v Speaker 1>She hadn't been able to find her mother, Rena or

787
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:46.039
<v Speaker 1>her sisters Charmaine and Heather, which is good because unfortunately,

788
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:49.320
<v Speaker 1>at this point, the current case the investigators had against

789
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Fred and Rose was actually collapsing. As the children were

790
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:58.599
<v Speaker 1>getting scared. Louise was realizing she didn't want her parents

791
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:03.320
<v Speaker 1>to get into trouble. They were retracting their statements and

792
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:07.000
<v Speaker 1>annam Marie Sorry knew she needed to do the same

793
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.400
<v Speaker 1>in order to protect her siblings. Well, the police realized

794
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:16.519
<v Speaker 1>they needed witnesses who were not afraid of Fred and Rose. Yes,

795
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:19.760
<v Speaker 1>and that was not their children after everything that they

796
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:20.440
<v Speaker 1>had been through.

797
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:25.639
<v Speaker 2>Fuck Okay, I'm very torn here, but yeah, I know,

798
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:26.519
<v Speaker 2>I understand.

799
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.800
<v Speaker 1>They focused their search on finding Heather, Rina, and Charmaine,

800
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and unbelievably, Fred and Rose were let go, although the

801
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:40.639
<v Speaker 1>younger children did stay in social services.

802
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:42.760
<v Speaker 2>So they're no longer in custody.

803
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're back at their fucking house. Fuck yeah, like

804
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.360
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they're back at their house is oh

805
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.559
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, it actually makes me feel ill.

806
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:54.599
<v Speaker 2>They need to find Heather's body, is what they need.

807
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:59.039
<v Speaker 1>The police then focused all of their efforts into finding

808
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:05.119
<v Speaker 1>the missing missing women like, what's her name again? Hazel Savage?

809
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Savage was not.

810
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:12.199
<v Speaker 1>Dropping this, but they kept hearing. So sorry, we're just

811
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:14.519
<v Speaker 1>all over okay, I want to just start that sentence again.

812
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.400
<v Speaker 1>The police then focus all their efforts into finding the

813
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.719
<v Speaker 1>missing women, but they kept hearing about that joke about

814
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:22.079
<v Speaker 1>Heather under the patio.

815
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.719
<v Speaker 2>The police kept hearing the joke, yeah, because.

816
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:26.360
<v Speaker 1>They were kind of interviewing the kids, and the kids

817
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:28.760
<v Speaker 1>will kind of like bring that up, guy, right, So

818
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:33.679
<v Speaker 1>the kids mustn't kind of thought maybe sain. None of

819
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.119
<v Speaker 1>the West children, including Anna Marie, thought that Fred and

820
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.199
<v Speaker 1>Rose had meant anything by it, but the investigators were

821
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:47.079
<v Speaker 1>not so sure. In February nineteen ninety four, this smoking gun,

822
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.519
<v Speaker 1>they showed up to twenty five Cromwell Street with a

823
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.400
<v Speaker 1>search warranck good boom.

824
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:57.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and they started fucking tearing up that concrete, didn't they?

825
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:01.360
<v Speaker 1>They told police or where am I here? They told

826
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:04.199
<v Speaker 1>police that any jokes about Heather being under the patio

827
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:08.400
<v Speaker 1>were just jokes, but the investigators had a hard time believing.

828
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.000
<v Speaker 1>As the search dragged on into the night. May and

829
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Steven remember watching their parents whispering to each other. The

830
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:22.760
<v Speaker 1>following morning, Fred approached Stephen and said, look, son, look

831
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:26.719
<v Speaker 1>after mom and sell the house. I've done something really bad.

832
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:29.360
<v Speaker 1>I want you to go to the papers and make

833
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:34.960
<v Speaker 1>us as much money as you can. Fred then went

834
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to the investigators and told them that he'd killed Heather, So.

835
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Go to the papers and make much as much money

836
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.679
<v Speaker 2>as you can't divulging the story, I guess, Holy fuck.

837
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:48.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't for you know, you're sharing his side. I

838
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:55.800
<v Speaker 1>don't know, which is interesting because I almost wondered if

839
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:58.119
<v Speaker 1>he hoped that that would call off the search, Like

840
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.119
<v Speaker 1>if he was, Okay, I'm just going to mit to

841
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Heather and then they won't go about trying to find

842
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.000
<v Speaker 1>like other women. That was kind of what I was

843
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:08.920
<v Speaker 1>wondering if what he was doing there.

844
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you know, maybe it was more of a self sacrifice,

845
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:16.480
<v Speaker 2>like like they're going to find the remains. That's a

846
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:19.719
<v Speaker 2>fact because they're digging there right now. Right. So it's like,

847
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:21.559
<v Speaker 2>if I just admit to it and say it was me,

848
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 2>then maybe your mother Rose will be left alone, because.

849
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:29.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm gonna let me just carry on here

850
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.480
<v Speaker 1>and then we'll keep talking.

851
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

852
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:33.920
<v Speaker 1>So Fred told them that it had been an accident

853
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:36.280
<v Speaker 1>and that he'd strangled her in a fit of rage.

854
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.840
<v Speaker 1>He then said that he dismembered her body, left her

855
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.440
<v Speaker 1>in a dust spin while he dug her a grave,

856
00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:45.400
<v Speaker 1>and then buried her out in the garden. He said

857
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:47.920
<v Speaker 1>that Rose hadn't been involved in the murder at all,

858
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.840
<v Speaker 1>and she hadn't even known about it until just now.

859
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.440
<v Speaker 1>He then volunteered to show the investigators where he actually

860
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:59.519
<v Speaker 1>buried the body and Okay, let's just stop there. So

861
00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.559
<v Speaker 1>where he so I feel like he was just like

862
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:03.519
<v Speaker 1>this is where you should search, Like you don't need

863
00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:08.000
<v Speaker 1>to search anywhere else, Like I'm guilty. Rose didn't do anything, Like,

864
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:09.599
<v Speaker 1>let's just move on with our lives here.

865
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's probably trying to. It's a combination of what

866
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I said and you said. I think, yeah, sounds of it.

867
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:18.000
<v Speaker 2>And did you know that actually there there are areas

868
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:22.320
<v Speaker 2>where you can legally bury remains in your backyard and stuff.

869
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh really, I mean if you're in a little lot

870
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:28.679
<v Speaker 2>downtown or something like that, probably not, But there's certain areas,

871
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:30.559
<v Speaker 2>and at least I'm talking about like North America, in

872
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Canada and the United States, there's areas where you can, yeah,

873
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:36.519
<v Speaker 2>you can bury remains of loved ones and have graves

874
00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:37.239
<v Speaker 2>on your property.

875
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:38.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

876
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well think of what's that show that we watched,

877
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:41.039
<v Speaker 2>a Yellowstone.

878
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:44.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was literally thinking about that grave. Yeah.

879
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:47.519
<v Speaker 2>They dug graves on their their farm, hundreds of thousand.

880
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they have huge they have like the room and all.

881
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, it's legal in some areas, it's legal.

882
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay. As they were excavating her remains, they came across

883
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:01.559
<v Speaker 1>a third thigh.

884
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Bone, of course they did.

885
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:07.159
<v Speaker 1>Fred told the investigators that there are two more sets

886
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.000
<v Speaker 1>of remains in the garden, one of them belonging to

887
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Shirley Robinson and allegedly one of her friends. Being that

888
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:18.880
<v Speaker 1>three sets of human remains had now been found, a

889
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 1>decision was made to thoroughly search the entire property.

890
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:25.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, rightfully so, to.

891
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Which Fred confessed to the additional murders and their whereabouts,

892
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.519
<v Speaker 1>which is so interesting to me.

893
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:36.079
<v Speaker 2>So basically, the investigators like, we have a warrant, we're

894
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:39.639
<v Speaker 2>going to dig for remains in the spot you said

895
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:41.760
<v Speaker 2>they were going to be. And he's like, okay, fine,

896
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.760
<v Speaker 2>there's one body there, let's drop it now. And they're like, well,

897
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:46.599
<v Speaker 2>we're going to dig the body up just to be sure,

898
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and then they're like, actually, there's three here, and he's like, okay, fine,

899
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:53.159
<v Speaker 2>I killed three. Now, let's stop. They're like no, We're

900
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:56.840
<v Speaker 2>going to keep going, and he's like, shit, there's more. Yeah, yeah,

901
00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Like holy shit.

902
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:04.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Each victim had been extensively mutilated and showed signs

903
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:10.679
<v Speaker 1>of experience extreme sexual assault before death. Yeah. Fred stuck

904
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:13.400
<v Speaker 1>to a story that Rose hadn't been involved in any

905
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:17.239
<v Speaker 1>of the assaults or murders, but the police thought otherwise.

906
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.760
<v Speaker 1>They also arrested her on April twentieth, nineteen ninety four.

907
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:26.079
<v Speaker 1>Rose claimed that she was innocent, as she still does

908
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:26.719
<v Speaker 1>to this day.

909
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guarantee you that's a fucking lie.

910
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:32.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean a lot of people, see I'm not.

911
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:35.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm definitely like not a Rose fan here because I

912
00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:39.840
<v Speaker 1>feel like she's an awful person. But then a lot

913
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:42.920
<v Speaker 1>of people point out, like she was just a like

914
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.719
<v Speaker 1>a young young person when they met, right, so she

915
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:48.800
<v Speaker 1>was very much so manipulated. But I also do think

916
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:51.000
<v Speaker 1>she was a terrible person even at the time they

917
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:52.559
<v Speaker 1>met too already.

918
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:56.079
<v Speaker 2>I guarantee you she was manipulated in many ways. However,

919
00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:59.960
<v Speaker 2>just because you were manipulated doesn't excuse your actions when

920
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.079
<v Speaker 2>you are involved in a fucking murder, abuse and in

921
00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:06.880
<v Speaker 2>any shape or form of your arm kids. Yeah, any

922
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:12.280
<v Speaker 2>harm in any person. Yeah, you willingly were a participant. Yes,

923
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.480
<v Speaker 2>you were also a victim, But you were also a participant.

924
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:19.119
<v Speaker 2>Those are that's two different things. Yeah, and that's that's

925
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:21.000
<v Speaker 2>just a fact. I'm sorry, it is.

926
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.480
<v Speaker 1>She was an active participant, yes.

927
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.400
<v Speaker 2>And there's there's evidence of her knowing about the death

928
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.760
<v Speaker 2>of Heather. It was Heather, right, Sorry, Yeah, she knew

929
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:32.519
<v Speaker 2>about the death of Heather. She knew about where she

930
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:32.840
<v Speaker 2>was bing.

931
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:35.679
<v Speaker 1>She encouraged Fred in so many of these in situations,

932
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and she joked.

933
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Prior to the investigation about where she was fucking buried.

934
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.159
<v Speaker 2>You can't tell me she did not know any of this. Yeah,

935
00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:43.960
<v Speaker 2>fuck off.

936
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Fred just continues confessing. He told the investigators that he'd

937
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:55.480
<v Speaker 1>also killed Rina and Charmaine. They were not at the house,

938
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.440
<v Speaker 1>they were somewhere else. Their bodies, he said that he

939
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:02.599
<v Speaker 1>knew were Anne mcfalls remains were the pregnant girl who'd

940
00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:06.320
<v Speaker 1>gone missing right before he reconciled with Rena. But he

941
00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:10.079
<v Speaker 1>did and deny, He like till the end, denied that

942
00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:16.239
<v Speaker 1>he killed and mcfalls and that Rena did kill her.

943
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.360
<v Speaker 1>That's so weird you did.

944
00:51:18.679 --> 00:51:19.880
<v Speaker 2>It was very robotic, but.

945
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it was. I had written it really fucking weird

946
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:27.039
<v Speaker 1>in my notes and then I tried to improvise it well.

947
00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 2>And to be fair, it was getting late too, so

948
00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I can't.

949
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:29.760
<v Speaker 1>To be fair.

950
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:33.239
<v Speaker 2>To be fair, Wow, you caught that one, not me always.

951
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 1>I heard that every moment. And just so you all

952
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:39.280
<v Speaker 1>are aware, like Ben does fucking say that even when

953
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:44.360
<v Speaker 1>we're all podcasting all the time. Uh. Fred remains deadfast

954
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and almost a bit stoic behind bars, but everything changed

955
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:52.239
<v Speaker 1>when he and Rose were brought before the courts. It wasn't, however,

956
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.960
<v Speaker 1>the thought of more time behind bars or being faced

957
00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:59.679
<v Speaker 1>with his horrible crimes that broke Fred. It was Rose.

958
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:03.800
<v Speaker 1>At court, Fred reached out to Rose and put his

959
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:07.480
<v Speaker 1>hand on her shoulder, probably as part of her defense.

960
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:12.599
<v Speaker 1>Rose winced and looked uncomfortable. When the trial was over

961
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.079
<v Speaker 1>for the day and the police began to escort Fred away,

962
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:19.679
<v Speaker 1>Fred fought back and tried to reach for Rose again.

963
00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Rose winced again and tried to get away from Fred.

964
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:28.400
<v Speaker 1>This allegedly just broke him or Rose was the love

965
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:34.079
<v Speaker 1>of his life right. He then became noticeably depressed. He

966
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:37.960
<v Speaker 1>sent letter after letter to Rose and asked their kids

967
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:42.480
<v Speaker 1>to pass messages onto her, but Rose turned her back

968
00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:46.119
<v Speaker 1>on him. She was sticking to her story about not

969
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:49.920
<v Speaker 1>knowing anything about the murders, including that of Heather, and

970
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.760
<v Speaker 1>she was hanging Fred out to dry.

971
00:52:53.599 --> 00:53:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean good, he deserves a fucking rot. But again,

972
00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:03.599
<v Speaker 2>and she is not just a victim. She is also

973
00:53:03.639 --> 00:53:06.679
<v Speaker 2>a part of it too. Yeah, doesn't that. That doesn't

974
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:08.320
<v Speaker 2>mean she's not a victim too. She is a victim

975
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I feel sorry for in that ass. Yeah, yeah, she

976
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:11.920
<v Speaker 2>was also a part of it.

977
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.079
<v Speaker 1>Fred then had a change of heart and admitted to

978
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the investigators that Rose had been a part of this

979
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.960
<v Speaker 1>all along. He said the only murder that Rose hadn't

980
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.920
<v Speaker 1>been involved in was Anne mcfalls, and that it had

981
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:28.159
<v Speaker 1>actually been Rina who killed her. Sorry, okay, I said

982
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:31.159
<v Speaker 1>that earlier too, and it's in there twice. He then

983
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:35.679
<v Speaker 1>hung himself in his jail cell. On January first, nineteen

984
00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:40.880
<v Speaker 1>ninety five, Rose was to face the charges alone. She

985
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:45.119
<v Speaker 1>was charged with ten murders. The verdict was simple and unanimous.

986
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:49.920
<v Speaker 1>She was found guilty and sentenced to ten life sentences

987
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:52.119
<v Speaker 1>without the possibility of parole.

988
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:54.360
<v Speaker 2>My heart fucking stopped for a Secondhen you said ten,

989
00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:57.159
<v Speaker 2>I was like, that better be life sentence in ten years.

990
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, because she wasn't super when they were

991
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:06.000
<v Speaker 1>like going through all this. So holy shit, I'll finish

992
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:10.159
<v Speaker 1>this case with this. I came across an article from

993
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:13.599
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety nine where one of the West children attempted

994
00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:16.800
<v Speaker 1>to commit suicide, and she hasn't been the only one

995
00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:19.920
<v Speaker 1>to try to do so. She had not wanted to

996
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:23.679
<v Speaker 1>be rescued and said, people say, I am lucky to

997
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:27.039
<v Speaker 1>have survived, but I wish I had died. I can

998
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:30.840
<v Speaker 1>still taste the fear, still feel the pain. It's like

999
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:35.119
<v Speaker 1>going back to being a child again, which is unfortunate.

1000
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:39.199
<v Speaker 1>Truth of this case. Though there were twelve bodies found,

1001
00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:42.599
<v Speaker 1>the reality is that there were probably many more, and

1002
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.320
<v Speaker 1>there are also many surviving victims.

1003
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.119
<v Speaker 2>That was one of the most heartbreaking things I fucking heard.

1004
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Holy I know. Actually I almostn't put it in there

1005
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:55.440
<v Speaker 1>because it makes you want to solve, but yeah, wow,

1006
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean it needed to be in there because we

1007
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:02.599
<v Speaker 1>think about those twelve, those twelve bodies found, but it's like,

1008
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:05.199
<v Speaker 1>in reality, there are so many victims.

1009
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, in this case. Oh yeah, the victims go

1010
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:11.280
<v Speaker 2>far beyond just those who lost their lives. Yeah, I mean,

1011
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:16.320
<v Speaker 2>she is lucky to have her life, because there's twelve

1012
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:21.000
<v Speaker 2>victims who did not have their life. But with that

1013
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:26.440
<v Speaker 2>comes the caveat of all the suffering, the remembering, the pain,

1014
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:31.239
<v Speaker 2>the torture, the PTSD, you name it. List goes on.

1015
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:35.079
<v Speaker 2>She is not lucky to be living with those she

1016
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:39.119
<v Speaker 2>lived through a literal hell yeah, wow, holy fuck.

1017
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:43.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, so that's the friend Rose West case.

1018
00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:44.159
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1019
00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:45.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, well doozy of a case.

1020
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Well done. Holy shit.

1021
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:51.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like that quote at the end has almost

1022
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:53.360
<v Speaker 1>just lost the left you speechless.

1023
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:56.639
<v Speaker 2>Say those like quotes and shit at the end and

1024
00:55:56.679 --> 00:56:00.519
<v Speaker 2>stuff they always like, bring this level.

1025
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:01.320
<v Speaker 1>I do that a lot.

1026
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, No, that's that's good because it's it really gets

1027
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:07.400
<v Speaker 2>us on the level of those victims, and I think

1028
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:10.679
<v Speaker 2>that's so important to really understand their perspective and their thoughts.

1029
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, anytime we bring their voice into it,

1030
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:17.440
<v Speaker 2>it just makes it so much more real. Yeah, Like

1031
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:21.360
<v Speaker 2>for example, I mean, this wasn't a quote after the fact,

1032
00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:25.480
<v Speaker 2>but it was their voice prior to Judith Barci Barsley.

1033
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Remember from All Dogs Go to Heaven like things like that.

1034
00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:30.920
<v Speaker 2>It just makes us so much more real.

1035
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1036
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because we can sit here and talk about this

1037
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:36.719
<v Speaker 2>all fucking day, but as soon as we have the

1038
00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:41.559
<v Speaker 2>victim's voice and being a part of it, it takes

1039
00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:42.800
<v Speaker 2>it to a different level.

1040
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, next level, Like yeah, I mean, because yeah, true

1041
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:49.400
<v Speaker 1>crime is kind of it. I mean, I don't know,

1042
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:51.280
<v Speaker 1>for lack of better words, you can call it a

1043
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:54.199
<v Speaker 1>hallby of sorts really right for a lot of people.

1044
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's it's a genre of entertainment.

1045
00:56:56.400 --> 00:57:00.559
<v Speaker 1>There you go. And but then yeah, sometimes it almost

1046
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.679
<v Speaker 1>when you're watching a documentary, you're listening to podcasts and

1047
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:06.159
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't actually seem like real life like that, like,

1048
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:07.360
<v Speaker 1>how could that actually happen?

1049
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well we become disconnected so easy.

1050
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:10.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1051
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean you watch the news and you see horrible

1052
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.800
<v Speaker 2>shit happen on the day to day basis. You are

1053
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:19.920
<v Speaker 2>driving to work, you hear about a gas station robbery

1054
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:21.920
<v Speaker 2>and someone got shot, and you're like, oh the fuck

1055
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.440
<v Speaker 2>that sucks, and you forget about it five minutes later,

1056
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:28.320
<v Speaker 2>and that person who got shot, who potentially died, it's

1057
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:30.360
<v Speaker 2>just they're out out of your head, out of your thought,

1058
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:33.840
<v Speaker 2>never to be thought of again, because these things happen

1059
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:38.559
<v Speaker 2>so often, but as soon as you have that connection

1060
00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:41.960
<v Speaker 2>to a real human being, that real person's perspective, that's

1061
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:46.199
<v Speaker 2>when it becomes so much more fucking real. Yep, totally wow,

1062
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:47.239
<v Speaker 2>well done, babe.

1063
00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:48.400
<v Speaker 1>That was thank you.

1064
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:50.599
<v Speaker 2>It was hard to hear, but well done.

1065
00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it I can kind of I realize why I

1066
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:55.639
<v Speaker 1>was like putting that one off a little bit.

1067
00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you really put that one off.

1068
00:57:58.199 --> 00:57:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Just because like I knew it was gonna be a

1069
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:02.679
<v Speaker 1>lot to research. I mean, there's you could go way

1070
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:05.440
<v Speaker 1>more like down a rabbit hole with this case, and

1071
00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:09.119
<v Speaker 1>like there's books and so much. But yeah, it's just

1072
00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:12.280
<v Speaker 1>it's also very brutal, and I hate I kind of

1073
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:16.159
<v Speaker 1>I do actually do couples sometimes, right, Yeah, and yeah,

1074
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:19.039
<v Speaker 1>just the thought of them, like Fred was able to

1075
00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.840
<v Speaker 1>pick up those hitchhikers too because Rose was there, yeah, right,

1076
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:24.719
<v Speaker 1>and they just like play off each other and it's

1077
00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:27.239
<v Speaker 1>just just like the psychology behind all of it too,

1078
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:28.119
<v Speaker 1>it's just mind blown.

1079
00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:32.199
<v Speaker 2>We'll think about it in the hitch hitchhiker's perspective. I

1080
00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:34.719
<v Speaker 2>think this was what was the woman in a box

1081
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:36.400
<v Speaker 2>or what was that one that we did not too

1082
00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:36.800
<v Speaker 2>long ago?

1083
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh, Colleen was a Colleen Stan I think so yeah.

1084
00:58:41.559 --> 00:58:44.880
<v Speaker 2>And she was a hitchhiker who was picked up by

1085
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:45.360
<v Speaker 2>a couple.

1086
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:46.760
<v Speaker 1>And didn't they have a baby?

1087
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:49.199
<v Speaker 2>I think so yeah. Yeah, so that atmosphere of oh,

1088
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:51.920
<v Speaker 2>it's safe, it's a couple, it's a family versus oh,

1089
00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting into a single man's vehicle.

1090
00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:55.519
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

1091
00:58:56.079 --> 00:58:58.239
<v Speaker 2>And as a man, it's terrifying to say that men

1092
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.239
<v Speaker 2>are the fucking scary ones, but it is very much

1093
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:02.559
<v Speaker 2>so true. So if you're getting in a single man's

1094
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:05.400
<v Speaker 2>vehicle that is that could be potentially terrifying, But there's

1095
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:09.440
<v Speaker 2>another person in there, a woman, a child, it puts

1096
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:10.719
<v Speaker 2>you at ease so much easier.

1097
00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, because it wasn't oh man, it's hard to

1098
00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:16.480
<v Speaker 1>remember cases sometimes, like the nitty gritty details, But it

1099
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:19.480
<v Speaker 1>wasn't she one that turned down a ride that had

1100
00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:22.199
<v Speaker 1>like a whole bunch of men one the vehicles.

1101
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:25.519
<v Speaker 2>I believe you researched it, I know, yeah, but we do.

1102
00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:28.280
<v Speaker 2>We research case in depth every week. A lot of

1103
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:29.280
<v Speaker 2>them blur together.

1104
00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:31.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah they do, but I'm pretty sure that was that one.

1105
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.400
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, anyway.

1106
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:35.920
<v Speaker 2>That was tough to listen to, though. Yeah, Bread and

1107
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:43.559
<v Speaker 2>Rose can fuck off, they suck. Yeah, to put it lightly, yeah,

1108
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:46.480
<v Speaker 2>I fucking suck. Yeah, holy shit. Okay, Well, we appreciate

1109
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:49.079
<v Speaker 2>you guys listening to Nicole's two parter and thanks for

1110
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:50.599
<v Speaker 2>making us wait a whole nother week.

1111
00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:52.880
<v Speaker 1>You're welcome our pleasure.

1112
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you did good, and we appreciate you guys showing

1113
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.840
<v Speaker 2>up for part one, Part two, all the episodes. We've

1114
00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:02.000
<v Speaker 2>got something really cool we're gonna share with you here,

1115
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:05.679
<v Speaker 2>probably tomorrow, so check our social media for that. If not,

1116
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.800
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna be talking about it next week on the episode,

1117
01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:12.159
<v Speaker 2>so stay tuned because it's it's pretty cool, pretty exciting.

1118
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:12.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1119
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.639
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, until then, though, social medias are down on

1120
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:17.199
<v Speaker 2>the link so you can follow it to check it out.

1121
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:19.760
<v Speaker 2>We have Patreon, we have website. Feel free to sign up,

1122
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:23.559
<v Speaker 2>leave us a comment, go over on Spotify. Answered the

1123
01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:25.599
<v Speaker 2>little question that will put up there, You could do

1124
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:28.639
<v Speaker 2>that too. If not, you just want to listen, that's

1125
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:32.480
<v Speaker 2>fan fuckingtastic. That's cool. We appreciate that, and we love that.

1126
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:34.159
<v Speaker 1>We love having you here no matter what.

1127
01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so thank you for all the above, and thank

1128
01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:38.000
<v Speaker 2>you for the awesome episode babe.

1129
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and until next week, stay wicked