Speaker 1: Life can be a slippery slope sometimes, and today's part
Speaker 1: two coverage of Fred and Rose west Story is one
Speaker 1: of those where every time something happens, you think that
Speaker 1: things couldn't possibly get any worse, but somehow they do.
Speaker 1: Be sure to hit up part one before moving forward
Speaker 1: with listening to this episode.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this.
Speaker 1: Is Wicked and Grim, a true grum podcast.
Speaker 2: Morning Post.
Speaker 1: Listeners just question that much.
Speaker 2: Okay, we better start apologizing right now because I hit record.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, You're sorry for what? You know what I
Speaker 1: was get so much flack. I'm pretty sure though, you
Speaker 1: were the last one to do a part two. I
Speaker 1: we're back with a part two. You know we made
Speaker 1: you wait. The time is here. You don't have to
Speaker 1: wait any longer. You made it. We all did it.
Speaker 2: We did it. It's worth it. Sometimes the suspense builds,
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, I think this day and age, we're
Speaker 2: all too accustomed to just having seasons of shows dropped
Speaker 2: on TV and we watched it all at once. Mm hmm,
Speaker 2: so that suspense building is good once in a while.
Speaker 1: Well, I must say, hopefully I can find this now
Speaker 1: I discovered and okay, I love this when I discovered
Speaker 1: shit and like, share something with you because it so
Speaker 1: happens just never.
Speaker 2: It so happens just ever.
Speaker 1: It's just a rarity.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, Well, what do you have to share with me?
Speaker 1: You just so, I had found out that Spotify does
Speaker 1: like Q and a's or something on specific like you
Speaker 1: can put a question and out on a specific episode
Speaker 1: of a podcast yep, And so they had just randomly
Speaker 1: like did some for us, and it was I think
Speaker 1: it was like, what did you think about this episode? Right? Anyway,
Speaker 1: someone did say that they said loved it and multipart
Speaker 1: multiple part cases. I agree that our society doesn't wait
Speaker 1: for things anymore, and I can be guilty of that too,
Speaker 1: but I definitely like the two part cases because it
Speaker 1: does make me more excited for the next episode.
Speaker 2: Hell, yes, who said that?
Speaker 1: This was Samantha Ray Taylor.
Speaker 2: Samantha, you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 1: So there, you know what. I'm just like making you
Speaker 1: guys live your best life.
Speaker 2: Yes, patience is a virtue. It's a muscle. We don't
Speaker 2: flex very often. We're going to make you do it
Speaker 2: once in a while. Here, We're sorry, but we're also
Speaker 2: not At.
Speaker 1: The same time, and also thank you for people who
Speaker 1: notice our Q and A before we did.
Speaker 2: No kidding, and thank you for bringing it forward to me,
Speaker 2: because I'm someone who prides myself on my social media
Speaker 2: knowledge and I had no fucking clue about this. I
Speaker 2: did not know that Spotify had this integrated into their
Speaker 2: system whatsoever.
Speaker 1: So my mind is, well, I found it so randomly too,
Speaker 1: because I always go to the last episode to see
Speaker 1: who we thanked for our patreons. Yep, our patrons. I
Speaker 1: always I get that backwards, our patrons, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this is? Why is it asking me a question?
Speaker 1: I could have responded if I wanted, And then yeah,
Speaker 1: I looked into it was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you guys want to go answer some
Speaker 2: comments on Patreon, we're going to be putting that up
Speaker 2: more often.
Speaker 1: Yeah, different questions.
Speaker 2: Just so you guys do know. Though. We have had
Speaker 2: a couple people comment requests on Spotify. Feel free to
Speaker 2: do that. We're just not going to make those with public.
Speaker 2: We'll just take those put them into our book so
Speaker 2: we are seeing them, we are hearing them. Feel free
Speaker 2: to do it. It's just not going to be made
Speaker 2: part on Spotify, if that.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, yeah, okay absolutely.
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, because we just talked about people being
Speaker 2: awesome and discovering things.
Speaker 1: Well, be new patrons.
Speaker 2: We have people who discovered our patreon this week. We do,
Speaker 2: we do. We have Kelly Crinnan, Eric Brethauer, and Prissy Velasquez.
Speaker 1: Awesome, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: So, thank you so much. We got the month end
Speaker 2: coming up, so they're going to get a exclusive episode
Speaker 2: over there.
Speaker 1: Holy heck, when is the month end?
Speaker 2: Isn't it like the twenty fifth today or twenty seventh?
Speaker 2: There we go?
Speaker 1: Holy shit, I forgot about that. Are you on that?
Speaker 2: I'm on it. Don't worry, I've got a cool episode
Speaker 2: coming up.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I've just been living under a Fred
Speaker 1: and Rose west Rock.
Speaker 2: That does not sound like a very nice place.
Speaker 1: No, it actually has been hell on earth. These people
Speaker 1: are something else. And if you thought last week's episode
Speaker 1: was rough, this one is so rough.
Speaker 2: Can you give us a quick rundown on how last
Speaker 2: episode did play out?
Speaker 1: Yes, so I did a little intro. But if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this, this is a part two episode, so
Speaker 1: you need to go back to the following episode and
Speaker 1: listen to that one first or else. None of this
Speaker 1: will make any.
Speaker 2: Sense fair enough.
Speaker 1: So we left off last episode with Rose pregnant and
Speaker 1: the family moving into their forever home. It was twenty
Speaker 1: five Cremwell Street. We talked about both Fred and Rose,
Speaker 1: how they experienced sexual abuse within their households growing up,
Speaker 1: which is very unfortunate, and how pregnant Anne McFall, Charmaine
Speaker 1: and Rena had already fallen victim to this notorious couple.
Speaker 1: So then the family was living on the ground floor
Speaker 1: of their new home and renting out the other bedrooms,
Speaker 1: and after Rose gave birth to their second daughter, May June,
Speaker 1: Rose found another way to make some additional money. And
Speaker 1: that was where I was apparently an asshole and stopped
Speaker 1: the episode. So does that all ring a bell?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is where we're starting, Okay. So she
Speaker 1: had a room upstairs that was called Rose's Room. She
Speaker 1: was the only one with the key to this room,
Speaker 1: and within said room she would conduct her sex work
Speaker 1: to both men and women with encouragement from Fred. Outside
Speaker 1: was a red light that would be turned on when
Speaker 1: no one in the household was to disturb Rose and
Speaker 1: whoever she had in that room with her. Now, something
Speaker 1: I didn't even put in here, and we just do
Speaker 1: that so often we don't have an inner notes. But
Speaker 1: then just little things remind us of stuff. There were
Speaker 1: also allegedly holes in this in the wall I guess
Speaker 1: of this room. Oh no, that Fred could look in Okay, I.
Speaker 2: Mean not that that's great, but that's not what I
Speaker 2: was I was thinking worse. I was thinking of glory.
Speaker 1: Well you went that, Okay.
Speaker 2: I assumed you were talking gloryholes.
Speaker 1: No, it was people, peoples? Is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? People?
Speaker 1: Okay? I was like, all of a sudden, that sounded
Speaker 1: it's sexually gross, but I don't think it is.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the intent is is there still?
Speaker 1: But no one is ever going to be able to
Speaker 1: say the word people without thinking about Fred and Rose Westna.
Speaker 2: The word peep is not inherently dirty. People are just
Speaker 2: going to look at those little like marshmallow peeps on
Speaker 2: Easter coming up?
Speaker 1: All great?
Speaker 2: Those are disgusting.
Speaker 1: I actually don't even know if I've had one.
Speaker 2: You haven't had a peep? No, okay, we're going to
Speaker 2: be trying peeps.
Speaker 1: You just said they were absolutely disgusting. What on earth
Speaker 1: do I want to try one?
Speaker 2: Because you have to know how disgusting they are.
Speaker 1: Like, it doesn't just isn't it just a marshmallow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, a shitty ass marshmallow. Okay, It's like if Lucky
Speaker 2: Charms was super old and super squishy. Oh gross, that's
Speaker 2: what a peep is.
Speaker 1: Okay. So her work with her male clients seemed to
Speaker 1: go well without a hitch, but Rose's female clients had
Speaker 1: a different story to tell. They said that Rose always
Speaker 1: took things further, and when Fred joined them, he didn't
Speaker 1: do anything to hold her back. Instead, both of them
Speaker 1: seemed to enjoy taking things further than the women were
Speaker 1: comfortable going, and their sexual activities always seemed to be
Speaker 1: based around dominating their partners. They're into dominating.
Speaker 2: Gotcha that whole I don't know. I kind of mentioned
Speaker 2: it last on that alpha mentality sort of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So by nineteen seventy seven, Rose's father was back
Speaker 1: into their lives, but when he found out that Rose
Speaker 1: was a sex worker, the response wasn't a good one. Apparently,
Speaker 1: instead of trying to help his daughter, her own father
Speaker 1: allegedly started buying her services too. Oh, which, honestly, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I have like a lot of trouble believing that.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like numerous reports. Oh but remember he
Speaker 1: did sexually abuse her as a child. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's really disturbing.
Speaker 2: That. I mean, not that. Oh that's just like the
Speaker 2: sexual abuse. Don't get me wrong, that's horrible. But for
Speaker 2: some reason, the purchasing of it makes it seem almost
Speaker 2: worse because I can guarantee you she's not willing. Still,
Speaker 2: It's almost like she has to pretend she's willing in
Speaker 2: this case, which makes it feel worse. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well she would still like she's still all throughout
Speaker 1: this whole story. Really, she's still very young, right yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh that's a whole yeah basket. I don't want
Speaker 2: to unpack.
Speaker 1: Wow, alay, just carry on here, please do. By nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty three, Rose had given birth to eight children. At
Speaker 1: least three of those were from her clients. They were
Speaker 1: not all Fred's kids. Fred treated them like they were
Speaker 1: his own, and even covered their tracks by telling them
Speaker 1: that they look differently to their other siblings because Fred's
Speaker 1: great grandmother had been a woman of color.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I mean, I mean that in itself is
Speaker 2: a nice thing to ensure that people don't feel different,
Speaker 2: And it's like no, we're still family regardless, right, That,
Speaker 2: just regardless of who it's coming from, is a nice sentiment.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't think anything out of that
Speaker 1: guy's mouth is nice, But I guess.
Speaker 2: I like to play Devil's advocate.
Speaker 1: You know, he's at least making everyone feel like they're
Speaker 1: part of something. Oh, I don't know anyway, Good God,
Speaker 1: this whole episode's going to just be like, yeah, just bad. Okay.
Speaker 1: So that didn't mean that he treated any of the
Speaker 1: children well. When each of them turned seven, they were
Speaker 1: given a long list of chores that they had to
Speaker 1: do every day. They weren't allowed to spend time with
Speaker 1: friends outside of the house unless either Fred or Rose
Speaker 1: went with them, and if they broke any of these
Speaker 1: many rules, they'd get punished. Rose eventually dished out the punishments,
Speaker 1: and they often always included some level of physical abuse.
Speaker 1: Cool not, This episode's really rough.
Speaker 2: I feel I should probably.
Speaker 1: Have actually done maybe an extra what are those called
Speaker 1: the beginning disclosure or disclaimer.
Speaker 2: A disclosure signing, a non disclosure agreement for this episode,
Speaker 2: can't talk about it?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Well, honestly, maybe that's needed, but potentially
Speaker 1: so Rose made a point of not hurting the children
Speaker 1: anywhere that would be visible, making the abuse harder to
Speaker 1: notice and harder to track. Anytime they received any injury
Speaker 1: that had to be treated at the hospital, Rose would
Speaker 1: tell the staff that they'd gotten into an accident at home,
Speaker 1: and no incident reports were ever filled out or reporter
Speaker 1: reported to social services, which is very unfortunate. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like some lots of times people
Speaker 1: just think people are good. I don't think I think
Speaker 1: back in the day, like in the seventies, nowadays people
Speaker 1: might question that more. I feel like in the hospital
Speaker 1: maybe because we know like how bad things can be.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean there is that too, but also back
Speaker 2: then kids were outside riding bikes for h their trees, and.
Speaker 1: They had way more like freedom actually kind of yeah.
Speaker 2: And also the physical discipline from a parent, like you know, get.
Speaker 1: Your asked, whooping you know, right, you actually could, yeah,
Speaker 1: you actually got spankings kind of thing exactly.
Speaker 2: So there was that line was a little more blurred then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I was like always off on my
Speaker 1: own doing god knows what. Yeah, same, and that's nothing
Speaker 1: like ill about my parents at all. But it's just
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I think nowadays, like I guess
Speaker 1: people are more bad things happen. We're more aware and
Speaker 1: stuff and so yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I know like for myself, Like as a kid,
Speaker 2: I would be riding up and down the dirt road
Speaker 2: in front of my house, like half a klometer away.
Speaker 2: My friend and I would ride our bikes towards each
Speaker 2: other with sticks if we would stick our sticks in
Speaker 2: our bike spokes trying to knock the other person off
Speaker 2: the bike. Like we had joust with sticks on our bikes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: good times. Slings a lot about me. Actually now they
Speaker 2: look back on it, doesn't it a little bit?
Speaker 1: Actually even with wildlife, I just remember too, like we
Speaker 1: kind of lived somewhere where there was a hill right
Speaker 1: behind us and like a lot of bears in the area, yea,
Speaker 1: And there'd be bears in our yard all the time,
Speaker 1: and like there'd be one in there and then it's gone,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like and my Mom's like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a bear there, And I'm like, well, I'll just like
Speaker 1: be still outside, but I'll stick close to the deck.
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't a big deal that a bear five
Speaker 1: fucking minutes ago was just in the yard like I'm
Speaker 1: still going outside.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Anyway, what do you always say? I digress, we digress.
Speaker 2: I digress, we digress. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, So apparently not even Fred was safe from Rose's
Speaker 1: physical punishments. In nineteen seventy four, he found himself the
Speaker 1: wrong end of a knife as Rose chased him around
Speaker 1: the house. He managed to himself behind a door and
Speaker 1: closed it, but Rose still went for him. The knife
Speaker 1: ended up sticking into the door, and Rose actually slid
Speaker 1: her hand down it, almost slicing three of her very
Speaker 1: own fingers off. Ooh ouch Rose, you yeah you felt that? Eh? Oh?
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: Rose allegedly grabbed a cloth to stop the bleeding and
Speaker 1: very calmly said to Fred, look what you've done, fella.
Speaker 1: You got to take me to the hospital. Now.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it wasn't quite that that level. It
Speaker 1: might have been yelling, but who knows.
Speaker 2: Look what you've done, Pella. Now you got to take
Speaker 2: me to the hospital. Tisk tisk.
Speaker 1: So now to step back a bit and explain a
Speaker 1: little bit more about what was going on within the house,
Speaker 1: oh boy. In nineteen seventy two, when Anna Marie was
Speaker 1: only eight years old, she was sent to the basement
Speaker 1: of the family home and ordered to remove her clothes.
Speaker 1: Friend and Rose then tied her to a mattress, gagged her,
Speaker 1: and Fred went about raping her.
Speaker 2: How old was she? Sorry?
Speaker 1: Eight?
Speaker 2: Holy fuck?
Speaker 1: When he was done, Rose followed Anna Marie to the bathroom,
Speaker 1: laughing at her and saying, I'm sorry. Everyone does it
Speaker 1: to every girl. It's a father's job.
Speaker 2: That makes me sick to my fucking stomach.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. And remember that did happen to Rose, right,
Speaker 1: Not that I'm like justifying any of this, because I
Speaker 1: do feel like at that point she would know that's wrong.
Speaker 1: Even though that happened to her as a girl, I
Speaker 1: think she would know that what was wrong.
Speaker 2: I was sure, hope so so.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like we said and last episode, the abuse
Speaker 1: is just carrying on to another generation. Wow, it wasn't
Speaker 1: just Fred. Rose took part in the abuse too, often
Speaker 1: making Annie Marie do housework with toys inserted inside her
Speaker 1: or trying or tying her to things, and urging Fred
Speaker 1: to rape her. When Anna Marie turned thirteen, they forced
Speaker 1: her to also be a sex worker within the house,
Speaker 1: lying to the clients about her real age.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: And I left out some pretty brutal things too, like
Speaker 1: it worse. Yeah, yeah, Like honestly, reading about some of
Speaker 1: this case, it's just like there was just like a
Speaker 1: nod in my fringing throat the whole time, Like it's
Speaker 1: unbelievable what these kids had to go through.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: All right, yeah, and we're just getting started in this episode. Basically, okayeah, okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know how well I'm gonna do for the
Speaker 2: remainder of it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're gonna just hate them, like these people
Speaker 1: are disgusting.
Speaker 2: Sounds that way.
Speaker 1: So later that year, they hired a seventeen year old
Speaker 1: nanny named Caroline Owens. Caroline noticed that Anna Marie seemed
Speaker 1: withdrawn and depressed, but she had no idea what was
Speaker 1: going on behind closed doors. She may have been able
Speaker 1: to put two and two together when Fred went about
Speaker 1: forcing himself on her. However, she was able to flee
Speaker 1: the home. According to Fred, both he and Rose knew
Speaker 1: that Caroline often hitchhiked on a Pacific part of a motorway,
Speaker 1: and one day they went out looking for her. So
Speaker 1: she did manage to get away, but now they're searching
Speaker 1: for her. He said that the whole point of going
Speaker 1: out and looking for her was actually to see if
Speaker 1: Rose would kidnap someone with him. When they found her,
Speaker 1: they told her that they were very sorry for everything
Speaker 1: that happened back at their house, and they offered her
Speaker 1: a lift. She took it, didn't she She unfortunately agreed. Oh.
Speaker 1: She was then taken back to their house, bound, gagged,
Speaker 1: and assaulted by both Fred and Roe. She only managed
Speaker 1: to get away with her life because she led them
Speaker 1: to believe that she wanted to work as their nanny again,
Speaker 1: and she escaped later from a trip to the local laundry.
Speaker 2: Maat, I'm glad she escaped.
Speaker 1: Yes, so she basically like that's pretty smart. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: because she had just probably experiment experienced one of the
Speaker 1: most traumatic events of her life. And then she went
Speaker 1: about waking up or the next day just being like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be your nanny, like playing with the kids,
Speaker 1: cleaning the house. And then the first opportunity she got,
Speaker 1: like she still made sure she was like thinking all
Speaker 1: her actions through and she just fled.
Speaker 2: Yeah, piece the fuck out. Good for her for thinking
Speaker 2: that through and actually bringing it to fruition totally, because
Speaker 2: it's easy to panic in a situation like that. So
Speaker 2: keeping your calm oh yeah, thinking out your steps methodically,
Speaker 2: that takes a lot, I.
Speaker 1: Would agree, yes. So she only managed to get away
Speaker 1: with her life because she led them to believe that
Speaker 1: she wants Oh holy shit, I'm just reading the same
Speaker 1: line again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are where to go?
Speaker 1: Aha, Sorry, smooth. So she reported the assault to the police,
Speaker 1: but it all proved too much as the court date
Speaker 1: drew nearer. Not wanting to face either of her assailants again,
Speaker 1: Caroline dropped the charges and the West were charged with
Speaker 1: indecent assault and bodily harm. Instead, they received a fifty
Speaker 1: pound fine and were released. Oh fuck, which is so shitty.
Speaker 2: It's so I mean, she's definitely not to blame.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I know. I'm just like, if at this point,
Speaker 1: if they would just have gone like behind bars, that
Speaker 1: would be amazing. I'm not blaming her for anything.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just clarifying it's not her fault. But it's
Speaker 2: it's so Jesus. Okay, just punched the microphone pretty much.
Speaker 1: Wow, this case rolls me up. Okay.
Speaker 2: I was like, it's just we see so many cases,
Speaker 2: so many situations, so many instance an incident, instance, instances,
Speaker 2: holy fuck. Where individuals get so intimidated and bullied by
Speaker 2: these fucking perpetrators that they don't they just want it
Speaker 2: done and over with. They don't want to deal with
Speaker 2: them anymore, they don't want to see them, hear their
Speaker 2: fucking name. So it's just all this power that these
Speaker 2: fucking assholes hold even after the fact, just pisses me off.
Speaker 1: Well, she probably had already spent so much time on
Speaker 1: healing or trying to heal, right, oh yeah, and then
Speaker 1: going back and having to face them, I'm sure would
Speaker 1: just it would kind of like, I don't digress you
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure it would.
Speaker 1: Only three months later, the couple would commit their first
Speaker 1: quotation known murder, nineteen year old Linda Golf. They were
Speaker 1: familiar with Linda through one of their lodgers. She would
Speaker 1: move into the home to take of their children, but
Speaker 1: she eventually would go missing, with Fred and Rose telling
Speaker 1: the other tenants that she had been fired because she
Speaker 1: hit one of the children. In nineteen seventy three, a
Speaker 1: fifteen year old named Carol Ann Cooper went missing after
Speaker 1: a trip to the cinema with her boyfriend, and over
Speaker 1: the next year and a half, four more girls would
Speaker 1: go missing, all of them ending up at the wests.
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
Speaker 1: So first one Lucy Catherine Partington. She was twenty one
Speaker 1: years twenty one years old, sorry, and lasting at a
Speaker 1: bus stop in Cheltenham. There's strong evidence that Lucy actually
Speaker 1: may have been kept alive for several days. A week
Speaker 1: after disappearing, Fred went to the hospital to get a
Speaker 1: cut stitched up. It's believed that he got this injury
Speaker 1: while dismembering Lucy's b because apparently well at the end
Speaker 1: here they found a knife that matched the injury, the
Speaker 1: injury with her body. So yeah, okay, Teresa, and I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, I'm going to be butchering your last name here,
Speaker 1: see seakin Teller. She's also twenty one and was abducted
Speaker 1: while hitch hiking. So I should just know, like a
Speaker 1: lot of the people that they did target, like it
Speaker 1: was through hitch hiking or through them staying lodging at
Speaker 1: their house, and they kind of targeted people that may
Speaker 1: not have been reported as missing right away, right, so
Speaker 1: more like vulnerable women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost like wayward individuals kind of thing, people who
Speaker 2: are I don't even know if wayward is right word
Speaker 2: for it, but people who are I don't know they
Speaker 2: will be missed right away.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, they just might not. It might not have
Speaker 1: been noticed because maybe they're all like often traveling around
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Free spirited individuals. That's a way better way of putting it.
Speaker 2: Free spirited people who are going to be traveling around
Speaker 2: their friend's family, don't know where they are at all times,
Speaker 2: that sort of thing, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Shirley Hubbard, she was age fifteen when abducted
Speaker 1: from a bus stop. When her remains were found, apparently
Speaker 1: her head was completely covered in tape, with only a
Speaker 1: rubber tube inserted in her nose to allow her to breathe.
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, could you imagine?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Wow, Like, just the torture that they were doing
Speaker 1: to these poor individuals is It's horrible. It's horrible that
Speaker 1: there's people out there like this. It is disgusting.
Speaker 2: One of the worst thing that popped into my mind
Speaker 2: about that. So I'm going on a little bit of
Speaker 2: a comedic part here. I'm just thinking, I always have
Speaker 2: like one nostril that's clear and one that's not, and
Speaker 2: it's switches like every fucking hour, I swear to.
Speaker 1: God, good God. Okay, it's like.
Speaker 2: A normal thing. Feel your nostrils right now, No, just
Speaker 2: cover up a nostril and breathe through one. One's going
Speaker 2: to be more clear than the other. I guarantee it,
Speaker 2: I guess. So what if what if you put the
Speaker 2: tube in the one that wasn't okay?
Speaker 1: Tubes in both? I don't necessarily know for sure, but.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine though, Like if you just had a
Speaker 2: tube in one nostril, well I breathe that.
Speaker 1: I honestly couldn't imagine being in that situation, like because
Speaker 1: I'm actually like a more of a mouth breather, which
Speaker 1: people think is weird.
Speaker 2: I think you're a mouth breather. That's a negative thing.
Speaker 2: It's not a negative thing.
Speaker 1: I literally breathe through my mouth more anyway, but it's
Speaker 1: negative contentations from name calling and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: That would just be horrible, Like you're in that much
Speaker 1: fear and then you can't breathe properly, like I just,
Speaker 1: I honestly can't even imagine.
Speaker 2: I know, I can now imagine only having the one
Speaker 2: nostril that you can't breathe out of them, and that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably just done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's fucking terrifying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so one Neita Mott. She was eighteen years
Speaker 1: old and a former lodger of twenty five Cromwell Street.
Speaker 1: Right after this, in nineteen seventy five, Fred put new
Speaker 1: concrete down in the cellar of their home and things
Speaker 1: seemed to calm down for a little while. Fred turned
Speaker 1: the basement into a bedroom for his older children and
Speaker 1: that was that. But then in nineteen seventy eight, surely Robinson,
Speaker 1: a lodger, would go missing. And I'm just gonna say
Speaker 1: those three years they were still doing shit. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: there's no way that they've just had.
Speaker 2: A three year break crumb.
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes I guess, actually serial killers do have
Speaker 1: breaks for certain reasons.
Speaker 2: But well, I mean, maybe they were just busy with renovations.
Speaker 1: I mean that the renovations, though.
Speaker 2: As casual as that sounds, it's very.
Speaker 1: Possible they cover up the bodies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I'm assuming that's the case.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, they had so many bodies. They're like, we
Speaker 1: have a lot of renovations to do.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, maybe they are, because renovations take time. They
Speaker 2: take time, they take yeah, right, and slowly working on
Speaker 2: this sort of thing. It doesn't sound like they're the
Speaker 2: individuals who are going to be working all too hard
Speaker 2: in my opinion, so it's probably going to be an extended.
Speaker 1: Project late at Stereotype. I mean, I'm just saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: So Shirley Robinson. Shirley developed relationships with both Fred and Rose,
Speaker 1: and at the time of her disappearance, she was actually
Speaker 1: pregnant with Fred's child. No, I mean this guy like
Speaker 1: there's I he impregnated a lot of people because he
Speaker 1: was He's kind of like a cheater as well. So
Speaker 1: at the same time, Rose was also pregnant and apparently
Speaker 1: it was not with Fred's child as well. Foolishly, Shirley
Speaker 1: thought she could displace displaced. Is that how you say
Speaker 1: that Rose and become Fred's new wife.
Speaker 2: Yeah, displace Yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 1: She went missing.
Speaker 2: But she went missing.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, Fred and Rose took in a
Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl name Alison Chambers. She'd come to
Speaker 1: work for the West once again as there live in
Speaker 1: nanny when she herself would also go missing. The children
Speaker 1: at the West Household were growing up amongst all of
Speaker 1: this chaos and abuse. By nineteen seventy nine, Anna Marie
Speaker 1: had run away from another vicious beating from Rose. She
Speaker 1: was pregnant at the time, and I think pregnant like
Speaker 1: with Fred's baby, thankfully, I think what had happened is
Speaker 1: the it was like the baby was growing in her
Speaker 1: filopian tube or something. So it did have to be terminated.
Speaker 1: But maybe that is a good thing, right, that baby
Speaker 1: was her dad from her dad.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's yeah, that's a very.
Speaker 1: That's a touchy subject. It's very touchy. Yeah, but maybe
Speaker 1: it just wasn't meant to be, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't want to say any sort of pregnancy
Speaker 2: termination is a good thing. I don't want to say
Speaker 2: that an individual should or should not terminate, but I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: given the father and the situation, yeah, yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 1: So natural causes pretty much kind of happened in that one.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so in this time, it was clear that
Speaker 1: she had no intentions of coming back to Fred and Rose.
Speaker 1: With her out of the house, Fred shifted his attention
Speaker 1: to Heather and May, who were both on the cups
Speaker 1: cusp of puberty. They'd already experienced sexual abuse at the
Speaker 1: hands of their father, but with Anna Marie gone and
Speaker 1: the both of them now teenagers, things escalated very quickly
Speaker 1: after and sometimes during the abuse. Fred would explain his
Speaker 1: actions by saying things like I made you, I can
Speaker 1: do what I want with you.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's one of those Hey, I brought you into
Speaker 2: this world, I can take you out. Fuck off.
Speaker 1: He even stated several times that he planned on fathering
Speaker 1: children with both Heather and May, at least once.
Speaker 2: At least once. Yeah, Holy, this.
Speaker 1: Just fucking disgusting. Holy shit, it's too much. I'm going
Speaker 1: to move forward all just.
Speaker 2: Kid, you please do, please do.
Speaker 1: The abuse was not just something that his daughters had
Speaker 1: to endure. Fred didn't sexually abuse his sons, but his
Speaker 1: first son, Stephen, was told that he would have to
Speaker 1: have sex with Rose by the time he was seventeen
Speaker 1: or face the consequences. Though from what I could find,
Speaker 1: that seemed to have just been a threat. I don't
Speaker 1: think that actually happened. I think it was a threat.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Heather, May and Stephen were all around the same age,
Speaker 1: and when when the abuse and the threat of abuse
Speaker 1: in the household ramped up, they did try to stick together, which,
Speaker 1: good God, that's just so sad.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine living in a house like that, I.
Speaker 1: Know, because like you're a kid, like you don't have
Speaker 1: anywhere else to go, You don't, you literally don't.
Speaker 2: And there they probably don't know any better either, especially
Speaker 2: the way they're teaching him, like this is what a
Speaker 2: father does. Yeah, you just you think that this abuse
Speaker 2: is normal. Everyone's going through this, and oh my, I'm
Speaker 2: overwhelmed with how these kids would fucking feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that just actually made me think back, Like
Speaker 1: something I hadn't even read was Rose Till Like Anna
Speaker 1: Marie was like, yeah, you're lucky that, like you're being
Speaker 1: taught this and you're going to know how to like
Speaker 1: treat and like pleasure your husband and shit, like just
Speaker 1: fucking disturbing as shit, Like it's so disturbing. So they
Speaker 1: made a pack, especially when it came to dealing with
Speaker 1: their father, and they made a point of never leaving
Speaker 1: either Heather or May alone with him. At least one
Speaker 1: of them would always go with the girl that Fred
Speaker 1: called to make sure that nothing happened.
Speaker 2: That's good, that's really good. Holy shit, good on them girls.
Speaker 1: Well they're just surviving.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: The girls also started only changing clothes and washing whenever
Speaker 1: Fred was out of the house or whenever the other
Speaker 1: one or Stephen could guard the door.
Speaker 2: But this isn't just surviving though, because just surviving is
Speaker 2: almost like a self preservation. This is not a self preservation.
Speaker 2: This is looking out for each other. Yeah, is much
Speaker 2: more than surviving.
Speaker 1: Which is really good that they're looking out for each other.
Speaker 1: So at least say of that. Yeah, this worked to
Speaker 1: a certain extent, but it didn't help them on times
Speaker 1: when Fred did catch them on their own. May later
Speaker 1: claimed that she managed to somewhat compartmentalize the abuse. Did
Speaker 1: I say that compart apartment mentalize the abuse? But Heather was,
Speaker 1: in May's own words, affected quite badly by all of this.
Speaker 1: By the mid nineteen eighties, Heather was showing the telltale
Speaker 1: signs of physical and sexual abuse, and other people were
Speaker 1: starting to notice. Yes, Fred and Rose played off Heather's
Speaker 1: behavior as her being a lesbian and even made fun
Speaker 1: of her for her symptoms.
Speaker 2: Wow, the symptoms they are.
Speaker 1: Causing symptoms no, of being a lesbian.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're they're attributing the symptoms of sexual and
Speaker 2: physical and mentals to being.
Speaker 1: A lesbian, I know, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yes, they're saying these sexual abuse, So these abuse symptoms
Speaker 2: are attributed to being lesbian and now are making fun
Speaker 2: of you for those symptoms yeh, which are apparently because
Speaker 2: you're a lesbian. It's like, holy fuck, a, you're causing
Speaker 2: those b you're lying, and now you're a cee rubbing
Speaker 2: it in her fucking face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they're just discussing.
Speaker 2: These people can fuck off. Yeah, oh my god. Wow,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I'm pissed. Oh yeah, like absolutely fun.
Speaker 1: We're only halfway through here, dude. So Heather was starting
Speaker 1: to break her silence and share with close friends her situation.
Speaker 1: At the same time, rumors of Rose's sex life had
Speaker 1: reached several of the children's classmates, and Heather was no
Speaker 1: longer denying them because that was the rule, like you
Speaker 1: don't share shit outside of the house. A father of
Speaker 1: one of the classmates ended up finding out of these rumors,
Speaker 1: but he happened to be friends with the Wests. Like
Speaker 1: the fact that the West even have friends.
Speaker 2: I'm shah get but people like this tend to be
Speaker 2: very manipulative too, so they're probably pulling the wool over
Speaker 2: his eyes.
Speaker 1: So soon word reached Fred and Rose that Heather was
Speaker 1: divulging some rather disturbing secrets of their home life.
Speaker 2: Was she divulging those secrets though she just wasn't denying them.
Speaker 1: She wasn't denying, But then she did also talk to
Speaker 1: some close friends, took about what was going on? Where
Speaker 1: am I here? So to follow, Heather received several severe
Speaker 1: beatings and Fred started walking her to and from school
Speaker 1: to make sure that no one approached her, so just
Speaker 1: kind of guarding her.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Realizing that no one would or could help her, Heather
Speaker 1: tried to make or to take matters into her own
Speaker 1: hands and applied for a job that would take her
Speaker 1: far away from her parents. When she got the news
Speaker 1: that her application had been rejected, Heather apparently broke down
Speaker 1: into tears and cried the whole night. Being that Heather
Speaker 1: was no longer in school, May and Stephen had to
Speaker 1: leave her alone at the home when they went to school.
Speaker 1: Oh No, when the siblings returned one day, Heather was
Speaker 1: nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2: Fuck.
Speaker 1: They were told that there had actually been a mix
Speaker 1: up and Heather did in fact get that job that
Speaker 1: she already left, and no one knew when she would
Speaker 1: be reaching out to the family again. But as the
Speaker 1: time passed and Heather didn't reach out to the family.
Speaker 1: Fred and Rose had to kind of keep changing the
Speaker 1: story because the hits were asking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just picture Maury right now, just being like
Speaker 2: and it's found out that that was a lie.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, they said that Heather and Rose had gotten
Speaker 1: to a fight and Heather had ran away. They said
Speaker 1: Heather had ran away with her girlfriend. So they just
Speaker 1: kept kind of changing, and when May and Stephen wanted
Speaker 1: to report her missing, Fred told them that Heather had
Speaker 1: been had actually been involved in fraud.
Speaker 2: Okay, But there.
Speaker 1: Was also a new family joke going around that Fred
Speaker 1: and Rose had started. Whenever the moment struck, they would
Speaker 1: joke with the children or when they were kind of
Speaker 1: like disciplining them or giving them shit, and sometimes even
Speaker 1: to each other, they'd say, you'll end up under the
Speaker 1: patio like Heather. That was like the new family joke,
Speaker 1: which is really fucking disturbing.
Speaker 2: How okay, clearly that's not fiction, that's very true. That's
Speaker 2: exactly where she is. How would how would that come
Speaker 2: up to be a joke?
Speaker 1: Well, like say you're in I don't know, they they're
Speaker 1: sick twisted sense of humor, like they're not normal, right, Oh.
Speaker 2: No, trusted, I have a sick twisted sense of humor too.
Speaker 1: Oh, I thought that was funniest shit, I guess.
Speaker 2: Because it's based on fact.
Speaker 1: But the kids, the kids didn't believe it either, Like
Speaker 1: they didn't believe it.
Speaker 2: I know. But my point is clearly it's based on fact,
Speaker 2: because how do you just make up a joke joke
Speaker 2: at a fiction like that? Yeah, that's not a fiction joke,
Speaker 2: you know, something like that is going to come from fact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that is a pretty sick, weird joke to
Speaker 1: make up when like your kid is supposedly missing exactly. So,
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two, rumors began circling about a tape
Speaker 1: not to do with Heather, who'd been gone almost six
Speaker 1: years at this point, but about another one of friend's victims,
Speaker 1: his now thirteen year old daughter, Louise. It was now
Speaker 1: Louise's time to experience hell on Earth. Fred had reportedly
Speaker 1: asked her to bring him something. He then raped her,
Speaker 1: sodomized her, and partially strangled her. He did this at
Speaker 1: least once, or at least another story, three more times,
Speaker 1: one of them being in front of Rose, and he
Speaker 1: had also allegedly filmed one of the.
Speaker 2: Incidents, so he was dumb enough to put it on video.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Good, well, not good, but good. There's evidence that that's
Speaker 2: what I'm leaning towards. That sounded terrible, No, I know
Speaker 2: what you meant.
Speaker 1: So it took Louise several weeks to work up the
Speaker 1: courage to tell one of her close friends what had happened.
Speaker 1: This friend told her mother, and unlike Heather's Heather confessing this,
Speaker 1: this parent took the confession to the police, like thank fuck.
Speaker 2: Yes, thankfully. Is this where they start getting caught? Yes,
Speaker 2: thank you fuck yes.
Speaker 1: Yes. So the case was assigned to very talented and
Speaker 1: persistent detective or detective constable named Hazel Savage. Pretty sure
Speaker 1: that's how you say your last namely her, I think her.
Speaker 2: That's a fucking name, and I know, but honestly, like.
Speaker 1: You would need someone that's just like gonna get shit
Speaker 1: done with this case, like she really like dig deep
Speaker 1: kind of oh shit.
Speaker 2: Whether it's a female male, anyone in between, because I'm
Speaker 2: a dude. I'm gonna do a dude's voice here. But
Speaker 2: I just picture like a fucking epic action movie being
Speaker 2: like starring Hazel Savage, like you know, just like fuck yeah,
Speaker 2: explosions behind them and everything doesn't look back exactly. Aviator
Speaker 2: shades on, like, fuck yeah, Hazel Savage for the wind o.
Speaker 2: My god, I need to change my fucking name.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Hazel Savage.
Speaker 2: Fuck yes you. I might need to do it one
Speaker 2: more time. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Ben is so into this name. Was didn't even put
Speaker 1: the name in here when I'm how could you put
Speaker 1: that name in here? I don't really address her much.
Speaker 1: I think I can say her name one more time
Speaker 1: and yeah, wow, I mean it's pretty epic, right, Yes
Speaker 1: it is. Okay, Hazel fucking Savage.
Speaker 2: Cay, I'm done.
Speaker 1: Okay, are you a beer? Beer? We got?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Hazel knew Fred from his days with Rena and remembered
Speaker 1: the stories that Rena had told her about Fred's sexual perversions,
Speaker 1: like he's a fucking perv. He's more than he's like
Speaker 1: sometimes I just want to say so many things, but
Speaker 1: I'm like torn down. Everyone is on the same page.
Speaker 1: We all always discussing.
Speaker 2: I'll say it for you. He's a cunt, a big
Speaker 2: fucking see you next Tuesday. Yes, Nicole made me. She
Speaker 2: wouldn't let me say it a second.
Speaker 1: So this time sea word very often good. So this
Speaker 1: time the police did visit the house. They told the
Speaker 1: West nothing about the call, which is good, so they're
Speaker 1: like keeping her safe right that they received and actually
Speaker 1: said they were there looking for stolen goods on the property.
Speaker 1: And something I haven't really mentioned yet is that Fred
Speaker 1: did have a petty theft problem because he he needed
Speaker 1: money to do all his renovations around the home, right
Speaker 1: see I said that, Yeah, but the like the renovation.
Speaker 1: It's not like a normal like I want to fix
Speaker 1: my deck. It's like he's fixing his deck because there's
Speaker 1: like bodies under the.
Speaker 2: Give it regardless of the reason, it takes money resource time,
Speaker 2: which is probably where that maybe lack of what's the
Speaker 2: word I'm looking for, perpetration, I guess yeah, fell.
Speaker 1: The police spent a lot of time going through Fred
Speaker 1: and Rose's extensive pornography collection. They didn't find one of Louise,
Speaker 1: which is I feel like, probably a good thing. I
Speaker 1: just that it doesn't get out there, right, Like, No,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like just no one should
Speaker 1: see that.
Speaker 2: I agreed.
Speaker 1: But the children of the household were removed from the house,
Speaker 1: and medical examinations did reveal evidence of both physical and
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, so glad Fred and Rose faced charges of
Speaker 1: rape and child cruelty, and for Roe, she also faced
Speaker 1: charges of inciting her husband to rape their daughter as well.
Speaker 1: God the fact that I have to say shit like
Speaker 1: that and neither of them could get their stories straight
Speaker 1: about Heather. When the police asked where she was, Fred
Speaker 1: claimed that she was a sex worker somewhere, and Roe
Speaker 1: said she had no idea. After a lengthy interview, Rose
Speaker 1: suddenly remembered she'd actually asked Heather to leave the house
Speaker 1: because she was afraid that Heather, being a lesbian would
Speaker 1: negatively affect the other children. Rose claimed that she she'd
Speaker 1: even given Heather six hundred pounds to help her set
Speaker 1: herself up somewhere, but she didn't know where Heather was living.
Speaker 2: Now, wow, that is the to quote one of my
Speaker 2: favorite movies. That's one big pile of shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Heather was legitimately like her first child. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so bizarre, Like it's wow. So when Anna Marie
Speaker 1: found out what was going on, she reached out to
Speaker 1: the police with hopes of confirming the abuse. Yes, like
Speaker 1: I'm right on, that's so good. She also told them
Speaker 1: that even though she'd been trying to reach them for years.
Speaker 1: She hadn't been able to find her mother, Rena or
Speaker 1: her sisters Charmaine and Heather, which is good because unfortunately,
Speaker 1: at this point, the current case the investigators had against
Speaker 1: Fred and Rose was actually collapsing. As the children were
Speaker 1: getting scared. Louise was realizing she didn't want her parents
Speaker 1: to get into trouble. They were retracting their statements and
Speaker 1: annam Marie Sorry knew she needed to do the same
Speaker 1: in order to protect her siblings. Well, the police realized
Speaker 1: they needed witnesses who were not afraid of Fred and Rose. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that was not their children after everything that they
Speaker 1: had been through.
Speaker 2: Fuck Okay, I'm very torn here, but yeah, I know,
Speaker 2: I understand.
Speaker 1: They focused their search on finding Heather, Rina, and Charmaine,
Speaker 1: and unbelievably, Fred and Rose were let go, although the
Speaker 1: younger children did stay in social services.
Speaker 2: So they're no longer in custody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're back at their fucking house. Fuck yeah, like
Speaker 1: the fact that they're back at their house is oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, it actually makes me feel ill.
Speaker 2: They need to find Heather's body, is what they need.
Speaker 1: The police then focused all of their efforts into finding
Speaker 1: the missing missing women like, what's her name again? Hazel Savage?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Savage was not.
Speaker 1: Dropping this, but they kept hearing. So sorry, we're just
Speaker 1: all over okay, I want to just start that sentence again.
Speaker 1: The police then focus all their efforts into finding the
Speaker 1: missing women, but they kept hearing about that joke about
Speaker 1: Heather under the patio.
Speaker 2: The police kept hearing the joke, yeah, because.
Speaker 1: They were kind of interviewing the kids, and the kids
Speaker 1: will kind of like bring that up, guy, right, So
Speaker 1: the kids mustn't kind of thought maybe sain. None of
Speaker 1: the West children, including Anna Marie, thought that Fred and
Speaker 1: Rose had meant anything by it, but the investigators were
Speaker 1: not so sure. In February nineteen ninety four, this smoking gun,
Speaker 1: they showed up to twenty five Cromwell Street with a
Speaker 1: search warranck good boom.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they started fucking tearing up that concrete, didn't they?
Speaker 1: They told police or where am I here? They told
Speaker 1: police that any jokes about Heather being under the patio
Speaker 1: were just jokes, but the investigators had a hard time believing.
Speaker 1: As the search dragged on into the night. May and
Speaker 1: Steven remember watching their parents whispering to each other. The
Speaker 1: following morning, Fred approached Stephen and said, look, son, look
Speaker 1: after mom and sell the house. I've done something really bad.
Speaker 1: I want you to go to the papers and make
Speaker 1: us as much money as you can. Fred then went
Speaker 1: to the investigators and told them that he'd killed Heather, So.
Speaker 2: Go to the papers and make much as much money
Speaker 2: as you can't divulging the story, I guess, Holy fuck.
Speaker 1: I don't for you know, you're sharing his side. I
Speaker 1: don't know, which is interesting because I almost wondered if
Speaker 1: he hoped that that would call off the search, Like
Speaker 1: if he was, Okay, I'm just going to mit to
Speaker 1: Heather and then they won't go about trying to find
Speaker 1: like other women. That was kind of what I was
Speaker 1: wondering if what he was doing there.
Speaker 2: Maybe you know, maybe it was more of a self sacrifice,
Speaker 2: like like they're going to find the remains. That's a
Speaker 2: fact because they're digging there right now. Right. So it's like,
Speaker 2: if I just admit to it and say it was me,
Speaker 2: then maybe your mother Rose will be left alone, because.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna let me just carry on here
Speaker 1: and then we'll keep talking.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Fred told them that it had been an accident
Speaker 1: and that he'd strangled her in a fit of rage.
Speaker 1: He then said that he dismembered her body, left her
Speaker 1: in a dust spin while he dug her a grave,
Speaker 1: and then buried her out in the garden. He said
Speaker 1: that Rose hadn't been involved in the murder at all,
Speaker 1: and she hadn't even known about it until just now.
Speaker 1: He then volunteered to show the investigators where he actually
Speaker 1: buried the body and Okay, let's just stop there. So
Speaker 1: where he so I feel like he was just like
Speaker 1: this is where you should search, Like you don't need
Speaker 1: to search anywhere else, Like I'm guilty. Rose didn't do anything, Like,
Speaker 1: let's just move on with our lives here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's probably trying to. It's a combination of what
Speaker 2: I said and you said. I think, yeah, sounds of it.
Speaker 2: And did you know that actually there there are areas
Speaker 2: where you can legally bury remains in your backyard and stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh really, I mean if you're in a little lot
Speaker 2: downtown or something like that, probably not, But there's certain areas,
Speaker 2: and at least I'm talking about like North America, in
Speaker 2: Canada and the United States, there's areas where you can, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can bury remains of loved ones and have graves
Speaker 2: on your property.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well think of what's that show that we watched,
Speaker 2: a Yellowstone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was literally thinking about that grave. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They dug graves on their their farm, hundreds of thousand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have huge they have like the room and all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's legal in some areas, it's legal.
Speaker 1: Okay. As they were excavating her remains, they came across
Speaker 1: a third thigh.
Speaker 2: Bone, of course they did.
Speaker 1: Fred told the investigators that there are two more sets
Speaker 1: of remains in the garden, one of them belonging to
Speaker 1: Shirley Robinson and allegedly one of her friends. Being that
Speaker 1: three sets of human remains had now been found, a
Speaker 1: decision was made to thoroughly search the entire property.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rightfully so, to.
Speaker 1: Which Fred confessed to the additional murders and their whereabouts,
Speaker 1: which is so interesting to me.
Speaker 2: So basically, the investigators like, we have a warrant, we're
Speaker 2: going to dig for remains in the spot you said
Speaker 2: they were going to be. And he's like, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: there's one body there, let's drop it now. And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: we're going to dig the body up just to be sure,
Speaker 2: and then they're like, actually, there's three here, and he's like, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: I killed three. Now, let's stop. They're like no, We're
Speaker 2: going to keep going, and he's like, shit, there's more. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Like holy shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Each victim had been extensively mutilated and showed signs
Speaker 1: of experience extreme sexual assault before death. Yeah. Fred stuck
Speaker 1: to a story that Rose hadn't been involved in any
Speaker 1: of the assaults or murders, but the police thought otherwise.
Speaker 1: They also arrested her on April twentieth, nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: Rose claimed that she was innocent, as she still does
Speaker 1: to this day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guarantee you that's a fucking lie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a lot of people, see I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely like not a Rose fan here because I
Speaker 1: feel like she's an awful person. But then a lot
Speaker 1: of people point out, like she was just a like
Speaker 1: a young young person when they met, right, so she
Speaker 1: was very much so manipulated. But I also do think
Speaker 1: she was a terrible person even at the time they
Speaker 1: met too already.
Speaker 2: I guarantee you she was manipulated in many ways. However,
Speaker 2: just because you were manipulated doesn't excuse your actions when
Speaker 2: you are involved in a fucking murder, abuse and in
Speaker 2: any shape or form of your arm kids. Yeah, any
Speaker 2: harm in any person. Yeah, you willingly were a participant. Yes,
Speaker 2: you were also a victim, But you were also a participant.
Speaker 2: Those are that's two different things. Yeah, and that's that's
Speaker 2: just a fact. I'm sorry, it is.
Speaker 1: She was an active participant, yes.
Speaker 2: And there's there's evidence of her knowing about the death
Speaker 2: of Heather. It was Heather, right, Sorry, Yeah, she knew
Speaker 2: about the death of Heather. She knew about where she
Speaker 2: was bing.
Speaker 1: She encouraged Fred in so many of these in situations,
Speaker 1: and she joked.
Speaker 2: Prior to the investigation about where she was fucking buried.
Speaker 2: You can't tell me she did not know any of this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fuck off.
Speaker 1: Fred just continues confessing. He told the investigators that he'd
Speaker 1: also killed Rina and Charmaine. They were not at the house,
Speaker 1: they were somewhere else. Their bodies, he said that he
Speaker 1: knew were Anne mcfalls remains were the pregnant girl who'd
Speaker 1: gone missing right before he reconciled with Rena. But he
Speaker 1: did and deny, He like till the end, denied that
Speaker 1: he killed and mcfalls and that Rena did kill her.
Speaker 1: That's so weird you did.
Speaker 2: It was very robotic, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. I had written it really fucking weird
Speaker 1: in my notes and then I tried to improvise it well.
Speaker 2: And to be fair, it was getting late too, so
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 1: To be fair.
Speaker 2: To be fair, Wow, you caught that one, not me always.
Speaker 1: I heard that every moment. And just so you all
Speaker 1: are aware, like Ben does fucking say that even when
Speaker 1: we're all podcasting all the time. Uh. Fred remains deadfast
Speaker 1: and almost a bit stoic behind bars, but everything changed
Speaker 1: when he and Rose were brought before the courts. It wasn't, however,
Speaker 1: the thought of more time behind bars or being faced
Speaker 1: with his horrible crimes that broke Fred. It was Rose.
Speaker 1: At court, Fred reached out to Rose and put his
Speaker 1: hand on her shoulder, probably as part of her defense.
Speaker 1: Rose winced and looked uncomfortable. When the trial was over
Speaker 1: for the day and the police began to escort Fred away,
Speaker 1: Fred fought back and tried to reach for Rose again.
Speaker 1: Rose winced again and tried to get away from Fred.
Speaker 1: This allegedly just broke him or Rose was the love
Speaker 1: of his life right. He then became noticeably depressed. He
Speaker 1: sent letter after letter to Rose and asked their kids
Speaker 1: to pass messages onto her, but Rose turned her back
Speaker 1: on him. She was sticking to her story about not
Speaker 1: knowing anything about the murders, including that of Heather, and
Speaker 1: she was hanging Fred out to dry.
Speaker 2: I mean good, he deserves a fucking rot. But again,
Speaker 2: and she is not just a victim. She is also
Speaker 2: a part of it too. Yeah, doesn't that. That doesn't
Speaker 2: mean she's not a victim too. She is a victim
Speaker 2: I feel sorry for in that ass. Yeah, yeah, she
Speaker 2: was also a part of it.
Speaker 1: Fred then had a change of heart and admitted to
Speaker 1: the investigators that Rose had been a part of this
Speaker 1: all along. He said the only murder that Rose hadn't
Speaker 1: been involved in was Anne mcfalls, and that it had
Speaker 1: actually been Rina who killed her. Sorry, okay, I said
Speaker 1: that earlier too, and it's in there twice. He then
Speaker 1: hung himself in his jail cell. On January first, nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five, Rose was to face the charges alone. She
Speaker 1: was charged with ten murders. The verdict was simple and unanimous.
Speaker 1: She was found guilty and sentenced to ten life sentences
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole.
Speaker 2: My heart fucking stopped for a Secondhen you said ten,
Speaker 2: I was like, that better be life sentence in ten years.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, because she wasn't super when they were
Speaker 1: like going through all this. So holy shit, I'll finish
Speaker 1: this case with this. I came across an article from
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine where one of the West children attempted
Speaker 1: to commit suicide, and she hasn't been the only one
Speaker 1: to try to do so. She had not wanted to
Speaker 1: be rescued and said, people say, I am lucky to
Speaker 1: have survived, but I wish I had died. I can
Speaker 1: still taste the fear, still feel the pain. It's like
Speaker 1: going back to being a child again, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Truth of this case. Though there were twelve bodies found,
Speaker 1: the reality is that there were probably many more, and
Speaker 1: there are also many surviving victims.
Speaker 2: That was one of the most heartbreaking things I fucking heard.
Speaker 1: Holy I know. Actually I almostn't put it in there
Speaker 1: because it makes you want to solve, but yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: I mean it needed to be in there because we
Speaker 1: think about those twelve, those twelve bodies found, but it's like,
Speaker 1: in reality, there are so many victims.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, in this case. Oh yeah, the victims go
Speaker 2: far beyond just those who lost their lives. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: she is lucky to have her life, because there's twelve
Speaker 2: victims who did not have their life. But with that
Speaker 2: comes the caveat of all the suffering, the remembering, the pain,
Speaker 2: the torture, the PTSD, you name it. List goes on.
Speaker 2: She is not lucky to be living with those she
Speaker 2: lived through a literal hell yeah, wow, holy fuck.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so that's the friend Rose West case.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, well doozy of a case.
Speaker 2: Well done. Holy shit.
Speaker 1: I mean, like that quote at the end has almost
Speaker 1: just lost the left you speechless.
Speaker 2: Say those like quotes and shit at the end and
Speaker 2: stuff they always like, bring this level.
Speaker 1: I do that a lot.
Speaker 2: Sorry, No, that's that's good because it's it really gets
Speaker 2: us on the level of those victims, and I think
Speaker 2: that's so important to really understand their perspective and their thoughts.
Speaker 2: I don't know, anytime we bring their voice into it,
Speaker 2: it just makes it so much more real. Yeah, Like
Speaker 2: for example, I mean, this wasn't a quote after the fact,
Speaker 2: but it was their voice prior to Judith Barci Barsley.
Speaker 2: Remember from All Dogs Go to Heaven like things like that.
Speaker 2: It just makes us so much more real.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we can sit here and talk about this
Speaker 2: all fucking day, but as soon as we have the
Speaker 2: victim's voice and being a part of it, it takes
Speaker 2: it to a different level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, next level, Like yeah, I mean, because yeah, true
Speaker 1: crime is kind of it. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: for lack of better words, you can call it a
Speaker 1: hallby of sorts really right for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's a genre of entertainment.
Speaker 1: There you go. And but then yeah, sometimes it almost
Speaker 1: when you're watching a documentary, you're listening to podcasts and
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually seem like real life like that, like,
Speaker 1: how could that actually happen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we become disconnected so easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean you watch the news and you see horrible
Speaker 2: shit happen on the day to day basis. You are
Speaker 2: driving to work, you hear about a gas station robbery
Speaker 2: and someone got shot, and you're like, oh the fuck
Speaker 2: that sucks, and you forget about it five minutes later,
Speaker 2: and that person who got shot, who potentially died, it's
Speaker 2: just they're out out of your head, out of your thought,
Speaker 2: never to be thought of again, because these things happen
Speaker 2: so often, but as soon as you have that connection
Speaker 2: to a real human being, that real person's perspective, that's
Speaker 2: when it becomes so much more fucking real. Yep, totally wow,
Speaker 2: well done, babe.
Speaker 1: That was thank you.
Speaker 2: It was hard to hear, but well done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it I can kind of I realize why I
Speaker 1: was like putting that one off a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you really put that one off.
Speaker 1: Just because like I knew it was gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot to research. I mean, there's you could go way
Speaker 1: more like down a rabbit hole with this case, and
Speaker 1: like there's books and so much. But yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: it's also very brutal, and I hate I kind of
Speaker 1: I do actually do couples sometimes, right, Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 1: just the thought of them, like Fred was able to
Speaker 1: pick up those hitchhikers too because Rose was there, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and they just like play off each other and it's
Speaker 1: just just like the psychology behind all of it too,
Speaker 1: it's just mind blown.
Speaker 2: We'll think about it in the hitch hitchhiker's perspective. I
Speaker 2: think this was what was the woman in a box
Speaker 2: or what was that one that we did not too
Speaker 2: long ago?
Speaker 1: Oh, Colleen was a Colleen Stan I think so yeah.
Speaker 2: And she was a hitchhiker who was picked up by
Speaker 2: a couple.
Speaker 1: And didn't they have a baby?
Speaker 2: I think so yeah. Yeah, so that atmosphere of oh,
Speaker 2: it's safe, it's a couple, it's a family versus oh,
Speaker 2: I'm getting into a single man's vehicle.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And as a man, it's terrifying to say that men
Speaker 2: are the fucking scary ones, but it is very much
Speaker 2: so true. So if you're getting in a single man's
Speaker 2: vehicle that is that could be potentially terrifying, But there's
Speaker 2: another person in there, a woman, a child, it puts
Speaker 2: you at ease so much easier.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because it wasn't oh man, it's hard to
Speaker 1: remember cases sometimes, like the nitty gritty details, But it
Speaker 1: wasn't she one that turned down a ride that had
Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of men one the vehicles.
Speaker 2: I believe you researched it, I know, yeah, but we do.
Speaker 2: We research case in depth every week. A lot of
Speaker 2: them blur together.
Speaker 1: Yeah they do, but I'm pretty sure that was that one.
Speaker 1: So yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2: That was tough to listen to, though. Yeah, Bread and
Speaker 2: Rose can fuck off, they suck. Yeah, to put it lightly, yeah,
Speaker 2: I fucking suck. Yeah, holy shit. Okay, Well, we appreciate
Speaker 2: you guys listening to Nicole's two parter and thanks for
Speaker 2: making us wait a whole nother week.
Speaker 1: You're welcome our pleasure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you did good, and we appreciate you guys showing
Speaker 2: up for part one, Part two, all the episodes. We've
Speaker 2: got something really cool we're gonna share with you here,
Speaker 2: probably tomorrow, so check our social media for that. If not,
Speaker 2: we're gonna be talking about it next week on the episode,
Speaker 2: so stay tuned because it's it's pretty cool, pretty exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, until then, though, social medias are down on
Speaker 2: the link so you can follow it to check it out.
Speaker 2: We have Patreon, we have website. Feel free to sign up,
Speaker 2: leave us a comment, go over on Spotify. Answered the
Speaker 2: little question that will put up there, You could do
Speaker 2: that too. If not, you just want to listen, that's
Speaker 2: fan fuckingtastic. That's cool. We appreciate that, and we love that.
Speaker 1: We love having you here no matter what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so thank you for all the above, and thank
Speaker 2: you for the awesome episode babe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and until next week, stay wicked