WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.360 It's night Sime with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy 2 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:06.719 Boston Radio. 3 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:09.720 Well, we have occasionally talked about the whole question of 4 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:13.199 what they call out migration from Massachusetts, and I was 5 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:15.720 reading the Globe this morning in John Chesto, one of 6 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:19.039 my favorite columnists in the Globe, wrote a very interesting 7 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.160 piece saying, people still leaving, but exodus is slowing down. 8 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:26.079 I guess there's some good news there, John Chesto, how 9 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:26.679 are you tonight. 10 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:29.760 I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm trying to find the silver 11 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:30.399 lining here. 12 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:31.600 Yeah. 13 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:36.159 You know, before the pandemic, we were losing a net 14 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.240 twenty five to thirty thousand people to other states. Now 15 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:45.000 this doesn't factor in immigration from other countries, which is 16 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:49.439 a whole other topic, but we were basically a net 17 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:52.840 loser to other states in a big way. But then 18 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:57.320 in twenty twenty two it got a lot worse. Essentially 19 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.600 the loss double to fifty five thousand. 20 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.640 Except that these people were working remotely and they decided, yeah, 21 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:04.599 I'd like it down here. 22 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:09.200 In Florida exactly. You wait, a lot of people moved everywhere, now, 23 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:11.719 not just Florida, but a lot of places are cheaper 24 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:16.200 than Massachusetts. And so during that work remote time, we 25 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:19.079 lost a lot of people, and then it's been slowly 26 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.719 coming back. It dropped the loss to other states dropped 27 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:26.239 to thirty six thirty seven thousand the following year, and 28 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.040 now it's around twenty seven thousand, which is the recent 29 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.680 history pre pandemic and is sort of in the range 30 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.280 of where it was before the pandemic. So I think you. 31 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.159 Piece today you said that we have not been a 32 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:43.000 plus migration state. I think you said for fifteen years. 33 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:45.959 That would take us back to deval Patrick's first term. 34 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.120 Right, yes, our last it would either be two thousand 35 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.079 and nine or twenty ten. We had one year where 36 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.680 we had a net gain of about five thousand people 37 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:02.640 or so. And I've heard different theories on why, but 38 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:07.799 one my own personal theory is we during that time 39 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.439 was the Great Recession. In Massachusetts, believe or not, did 40 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.159 much better than most areas of the country, and the 41 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.599 Great Recession, we weren't hit quite as hard, we didn't 42 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:19.560 have as many layoffs, and so there were probably more 43 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:21.240 job opportunities here at the time. 44 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:24.879 How do we do every year between births and deaths, 45 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:27.280 because that has to be somewhat of a factor as 46 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:28.319 well as mind is that. 47 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.000 Is the factor as well. And I can't remember the 48 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:36.159 exact number, but that you know, generally speaking are When 49 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:37.879 I looked at it, it seemed like we were in 50 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:38.840 line with the nation. 51 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:39.639 Uh. 52 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:42.879 And in that that the birth the birth rates are 53 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:48.199 slowing down, so we and we have the baby boom 54 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:52.280 generation reaching you know, they're not I wouldn't I hate 55 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:55.080 to say death age, but you know that there's a 56 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.520 large there's a big bulge in the population that's getting older, 57 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:03.039 moving toward retirement, past retirement. 58 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:09.680 The baby Boomer generation, which I think technically started in 59 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:15.039 nineteen forty six post World War Two. Those first baby 60 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:17.120 Boomers are going to be turning eighty in the next 61 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:17.639 year or two. 62 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.879 Yeah, but I don't think we're any different than other states. 63 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:24.840 The Lord and I can check the numbers. It's seem 64 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.400 pretty similar. So that doesn't really help us. But we 65 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:34.599 are helped by immigration. And of course we have budget 66 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:38.840 issues in terms of accommodating immigrants who are coming here 67 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:41.319 who don't have a place to live or stay, or 68 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:45.120 don't have a job. But there's also we have a 69 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.120 lot of high earning immigrants that move here from other 70 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:52.199 countries too. Because of the knowledge based economy does draw 71 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:53.520 people from all over the world. 72 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:56.360 How does that break down between people who are coming 73 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:01.599 here legitimately on a visa, whether there are you know, 74 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.719 a doctor at one of Boston's major hospitals, are a 75 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:08.879 professor at a college, versus those who are coming here 76 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:10.280 without benefit of a visa. 77 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.960 I honestly don't know that the exact breakdown. I think 78 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.680 it's a I don't think it's overwhelmingly one category or another. 79 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:23.600 I think there's this, you know, substantial number of both 80 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:26.480 types coming here. I mean, obviously, looking at how much 81 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.240 we're spending on you know, you know what, do we 82 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:32.839 at one point five billion dollars or something in in 83 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.519 terms of almost in one year? 84 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.160 Yeah, no, yeah, but more than that. Actually, I think 85 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:40.439 that the governor has just asked for a supplemental of 86 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.920 four hundred yeah, gets us close to two billion. It 87 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.160 was projected all along going to be a billion a 88 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.720 year once this really kicked in the high gear beginning, 89 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.639 and you know, in twenty twenty three, and now the governor, 90 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:56.120 as you know, is looking at it and saying she's actually, 91 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:58.800 it looks to me I've seen some reporting that's suggesting 92 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:03.160 that that he wants to go back and review the 93 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:07.120 original purposes of the legislation, which I remember. 94 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:11.279 I think, Yeah, I think I think there's a movement 95 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.759 to try to tweet that legislation that you know, where 96 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:20.959 the only state that really has this, you know, to 97 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.680 make it, to make it so that if you're if 98 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:26.920 you have to be sort of an actual legal resident 99 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:33.480 of the state for to receive these housing benefits, rather 100 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.639 than have it just be open to everybody. 101 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:39.639 Well, housing benefits in addition to EBT cards and in 102 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:45.879 addition to medical appointments, uber uber rides and cab cab fares. 103 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.439 There's this one company down the Cape, I think it's Centrual. 104 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:53.600 They got a no bid six point one million dollar contract. Uh, 105 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:55.720 you've got to live. You've got to have a lot 106 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.839 of cab rides to the birth through Oh wow, yeah. 107 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:03.079 To get I mean, I will say that the contracts 108 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.120 that we've seen, and the Globe has done some significant reporting, 109 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:07.839 not me, but some of my colleagues on these no 110 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:11.439 big contracts. They're astounding just how much money is going 111 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:16.959 to you know, the hotels, going to the food prep companies. 112 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:25.120 You know, it's really really deserves a thorough scrubbings. You know, 113 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:27.879 there's a reason why we have bidding laws here in Massachusetts. 114 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:31.160 Yeah, it looks to me like that the governor is 115 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:35.360 finally coming around to saying, wait a second, or what 116 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:38.439 are we doing here? There's there's no other state like Massachusetts. 117 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:42.279 Now she says, we're not a sanctuary state. But but 118 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:45.399 whether we are or not, in practicality. 119 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:50.600 Yeah, we do have that law. No law exactly. 120 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.600 Which was signed by governor to Caucus. I actually was 121 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:54.720 at the ceremony. The only reason I remembered is I 122 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.480 I watched a report of it on two or three 123 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:01.519 months ago, and I heard my voice asking the concass 124 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.319 of question. And I do remember that if you remember, 125 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:10.000 homelessness really became an issue around that time, but particularly 126 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:14.079 women homelessness. A lot of you know, women found themselves 127 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:16.959 out in the street, and at that time, again it's 128 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.480 forty years ago, people were shocked and said, well, wait 129 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:22.040 a second, it's one thing if guys are out in 130 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:23.920 the street, we kind of have women and children out 131 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:26.079 of the streets. And I believe that was the impetus 132 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:28.560 for the law, which was. 133 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:30.839 Did you ever expect back then that it would be, 134 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:37.000 you know, such a budget buster today? 135 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:37.120 No? 136 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:40.839 No, because it was always thought that, and then they 137 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.560 got into a controversy subsequent to that where they had 138 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.959 a lot of people they didn't have enough shelters and 139 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.959 they were they were they were housing people in hotels 140 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:53.439 and that became kind of a controversy. 141 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.160 Oh yeah, that's been an issue off and on, Well, 142 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:57.720 I think ever since really. 143 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.839 Exactly exactly, but no, this was never contemplated, the idea of, 144 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.519 you know, thousands upon thousands of people arriving here on 145 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:10.199 their own or being flown into the country, and then 146 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:13.120 that they would become beneficiaries of the law. The only 147 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.319 other there's no other state that has a law like that. 148 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.600 MI understanding is that there is in the District of Columbia, 149 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.920 which is not a state but obviously a part of 150 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:25.639 the United States, they do have some similar statute. And 151 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.439 I think New York also, the City of New York, 152 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.679 had some sort of statute which also became a magnet 153 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.600 when people started heading up to New York a couple 154 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:38.759 of years ago. And now that has fallen into disfavor 155 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:42.120 amongst the political leaders in New York. So John Well, 156 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:43.480 I got to take a quick break. I'd love to 157 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:45.559 see if people want to ask you a couple of questions, 158 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:47.960 and I also got a couple of questions as to 159 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:54.000 where this trend, Can this trend continue? And what do 160 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.559 we have to do in Massachusetts to reverse this trend 161 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:59.399 because we have the millionaire's tax, which is now on 162 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:04.039 the books. There are still people who were leaving Massachusetts. 163 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:07.960 Twenty seven thousand people and twenty in the year ended, 164 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:11.960 according to your column as I read it last last 165 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.360 June thirtieth, the prior fiscal year, fiscal year twenty twenty four, 166 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.320 that's enough people almost to fell Fenway Park, a lot. 167 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:23.519 Of people the other state. 168 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.240 Yeah, yeah, So let's see what if people want to 169 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.159 ask a couple of questions. My guest is John Chesto, 170 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:32.159 his columns in the Boston Globe. I read them all 171 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:35.159 the time. Chesto means business. I love that his piece today. 172 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.320 People still leaving, but exodus slowing down. Mass was once 173 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.799 losing eleven hundred people a week to other states was 174 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:45.759 just an extraordinary number during the COVID nineteen pandemic. It 175 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:48.759 has been cut in half, but it's still a lot. 176 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.080 Twenty seven thousand, and of course we won't have this 177 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.320 year's stats until the end of June. Back with John Chester, 178 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:57.120 if you'd like to talk a little business six one, seven, two, five, four, 179 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:00.320 ten thirty six Poe seven nine three t back on 180 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:01.639 Nightside following these. 181 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.679 Messages, Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window 182 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:09.240 World Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio. 183 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:14.639 My guess it's John Gasto Busino, business columnists from the 184 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:19.639 Boston Globe. And John, obviously the trend the last two 185 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:22.600 years is in the right direction, but it's still a 186 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.000 disquieting trend. I mean, it's not as if we've turned 187 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.600 the corner here. What is it about Massachusetts? You follow 188 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:32.919 this more closely than anyone I know. What is it 189 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:36.320 about Massachusetts? How would you categorize it? Is it the 190 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.960 millionaire's tax which is still hurting us? Is it the 191 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:44.480 fact that the state tax structure in Massachusetts across the 192 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:50.639 board is less a kind or pleasant to its taxpayers 193 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:53.879 than Tennessee in New Hampshire? What is or is it? 194 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:55.159 Or is it weather? What is it? 195 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:56.600 Well? 196 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:00.919 The biggest, the biggest issue is cost of living in Massachusetts, 197 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.960 and I would put housing as the primary driver of that, 198 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:08.480 you know, to the rents and the median home sales 199 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:12.799 prices in Massachusetts now, particularly in greater Boston are through 200 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:17.639 the roof, and there's no real sign of it falling 201 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:21.120 back even with you know, there's no sign that home 202 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.159 prices have not slowed come down, even though the interest 203 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.240 rates have gone up. So it's become so much harder 204 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:29.360 to buy a house here. I think, you know, we 205 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:34.879 see the biggest problem, the biggest problem area in terms 206 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:37.720 of about migration right now is the twenty five to 207 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.000 thirty four year old demographic. And I think you have 208 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.200 you know, up to that point, you're willing to kind 209 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.600 of stick it out and like four people buddies in 210 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.879 a three decker apartment, you know, you know, living on 211 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:53.399 top of each other. But as soon as you want 212 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:55.440 to think about buying a house or starting a family, 213 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:57.679 you need a little more space, you need one more room. 214 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:01.279 It just becomes almost impossible. Now that's the biggest driver. 215 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.799 You mentioned taxes, and our tax situation is not great. 216 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:08.600 Tax Foundation ranks us in the bottom ten, at the 217 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:10.799 top of the bottom ten. You know, we're better off 218 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:13.759 than California, New Jersey and New York, but you know 219 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.440 New Hampshire is in the top ten. They do great 220 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.440 and they do draw a lot of people from Massachusetts 221 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.399 because they don't have an income tax. The issue of 222 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:26.519 the millionaire's tax may not be chasing a ton of people. 223 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.840 That took effect two years ago, and we're still we 224 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.000 still don't have the IRS data because it even lacks 225 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.600 the sense its stata to see how many wealthy people 226 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.759 are leaving the problem with that is the people who 227 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:39.600 are going to leave are the people that probably contribute 228 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.320 the most financially to the economy, either in filling throfic 229 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:48.519 work or in just spending money. So that is chasing 230 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:50.360 some people a way. I've talked to a lot of people, 231 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.919 and you've seen some prominent people change their residency to 232 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.120 other states because of the millionaire's tax, which affects people 233 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:00.279 who earn more than a million dollars in any given year. 234 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.840 We also have a high estate tax, still one of 235 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:08.279 the highest, even after a reform that just took effect. 236 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:12.799 We have a pretty high capital gains tax too, So 237 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:15.440 those are those those sort of counting against us. But 238 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.519 the high cost of housing, it really is a tough 239 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.360 one to overcome. And yeah, the weather doesn't help us either. 240 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.200 I mean right now, it's what twenty twenty degrees you 241 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.519 know out here, you know, with the windshields a lot, 242 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.919 a lot colder. But I'll tell you I also did. 243 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:37.639 I was talking to a colleague of mine who's who 244 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:42.559 has a friend in la and she's her apartment is 245 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:44.840 or her house is not affected by the fires, but 246 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.120 she's you know, she's done with worrying about fires. So 247 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:50.440 she's wanted to see, if you know, look at job 248 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.679 opportunities in Massachusetts. So you know that we do we 249 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:59.440 we don't have when it comes to those big natural disasters. 250 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:02.240 We we don't have a lot of those, which I'm 251 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:06.840 thankful for. But the cold can be pretty inhospitable, that's 252 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:07.360 for sure. 253 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.200 Yeah. No, I look, the worst thing we're going to 254 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.519 get around here are blizzards. I mean, I think I 255 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:15.960 have friends of mine in the Plaine States, and beginning 256 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.240 in April and May, it's like hurricane you know, tornado season. 257 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.120 And yeah, I mean the hurricanes here. Really we have 258 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.039 not had like high death toll type hurricanes like you 259 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.840 have in the Gulf Coast that usually by the time 260 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:31.919 they get here there they've had a little bit of 261 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:33.360 the wind knocked out of their sales. 262 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:36.840 Why is it, though, Okay, why is it? In your opinion? 263 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:40.120 And this is my last question really that we have 264 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:44.000 this state where they try to tax people wherever they 265 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:50.080 possibly can, uh, and we have One of the things 266 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.960 that bothers me right now is you know what's going 267 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.639 on in New York with the congestion pricing, and I 268 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.600 think that's going to be coming to Boston. It's going 269 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.200 to be impossible to get into Boston between the like 270 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:04.200 lanes and if and when they introduced congestion pricing. Are 271 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:08.480 the politicians that they have that amount of avarice? They 272 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:12.200 just need more and more money to keep people on 273 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.720 the payroll. We looked at the globes U Mass Amherst 274 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:19.639 salaries last hour and it's like. 275 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.279 Oh yeah, pretty high. 276 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:27.000 Yeah. I mean it was ten percent increase of the 277 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:31.960 mass budget with a decrease of I think it was 278 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.679 three percent or whatever in students. There's just a disconnect 279 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.360 that seems to me between the leadership on Beacon Hill. 280 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.159 I always thought that Governor Healy would be sort of 281 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:47.080 a a mitigating factor. 282 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.480 Yeah, like a moderate check and bounce type on them. 283 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.759 And I think she's I think she's tried. She's tried 284 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.080 to be I mean really obviously you know as well 285 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:58.720 as I that it's really up to the legislature in 286 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.559 terms of what taxes get asked. She she did sort 287 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:06.080 of help. You know, there was a tax reform package 288 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:09.360 that didn't get done in the legislature before her, when 289 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.000 Charlie Baker was still governor. She helped get that across 290 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.799 the finish line. But you know, I do I think 291 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.759 congestion price. I mean, you saw what happened when her 292 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:24.759 state transportation secretary started making maybe too much noise about 293 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:29.320 putting tolls up everywhere. So there she she she knows 294 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.639 that there's a there, it's a that's a like a 295 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:37.360 third rail to use a transportation pun of politics is, 296 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.600 you know, putting tolls up everywhere and using suggestion pricing. 297 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:45.759 So she's very reluctant to go that direction. I think 298 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.120 it's some I know some legislators have been really trying 299 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:51.879 to because they they view tolls as an act of 300 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.080 it's unfair because commuters from the west are getting hit, 301 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.039 but not commuters from the north or south who benefit 302 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.440 from the big dig but don't have to drive through 303 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.519 a toll road. So I think I don't. I think 304 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.440 congestion pricing is going to be a tough sell. And 305 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:10.079 Beacon hild but I do think now that you can 306 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.079 just throw these gantries up and you don't you know, 307 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.319 that over the highway and you don't need to have 308 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.079 toll takers. I think you will probably see tolls on 309 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.039 some of the other highways eventually. It's going to take 310 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.720 time because you know, it's a real complicated federal process 311 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.279 you have to go through to the state. Can't just 312 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:31.720 decide to put tolls up on federal highways. I think 313 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.759 I think they're you know, I would say the Healthy 314 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:42.039 administration's cognizant of the backlash the state legislature. Some of 315 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.880 them are. But you know, you know, if you look 316 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:51.160 at how compare to Boston's budget increase, which was they were. 317 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.240 Moving. 318 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.640 You know, the wool administration just got through an eight 319 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.160 percent budget increase, including a one percent related to the 320 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:04.480 transfer of bp A onto this onto the city's budget. Uh, 321 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.039 the state was less than half of that. I don't 322 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:11.200 remember what the exact percent increase. Of course, the downside 323 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.240 is what you don't what what what you don't here 324 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.200 get added into the total until way later. These supplemental 325 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.400 budgets that pop up during like you mentioned, the one 326 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.960 that you know is being talked about for Yeah, so though, 327 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.400 like you hear about the regular budget that gets approved 328 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.640 always late, but usually in the summer, and it's like 329 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.559 a two or three percent increase. But then these sub 330 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.200 budgets keep coming through. So I honestly, if you're throwing 331 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.880 the sub budgets, we might have a lot more. I mean, 332 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:42.240 it's uh, and it's funny how that's there are these 333 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:44.519 We always still have a ton of money in the 334 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:49.480 Rainy Day Fund. It just seems like we might be 335 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.039 able to use a little bit more of that to 336 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:57.039 soften the you know, avoid avoid the I would say, 337 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:01.680 like any sort of increase because now we are getting 338 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.279 to the point where we're going to have to we're 339 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:05.559 talking about we need to do something about the MBTA, 340 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.680 and that's that's going to be a real painful discussion. 341 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:10.400 Uh. 342 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:13.440 They're talking about using some of that millionaire search share 343 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.720 tax money millionaires tax or tax money to prop up 344 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.880 the MBTA, which has a seven hundred or eight hundred 345 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:23.519 million dollar operating deficit. But I don't think that's going 346 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:27.839 to cover it all. Of course, there's probably some savings 347 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.960 to be found in the MBTA as well. And see 348 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.720 the state saying, you know, we really keep savings. 349 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.039 John, in Massachusetts have a tendency of disappearing. I remember 350 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.559 when they went to they got rid of all the 351 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:42.759 toll takers, and I thought to myself, this is a 352 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:46.599 good idea, because whatever the number was, two hundred toll takers. 353 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.000 You know, you think about the pensions and you think 354 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:54.000 about the salaries. But ah, I don't see an yeah. 355 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.839 We didn't get we didn't get any benefit from that saving, 356 00:19:58.400 --> 00:19:59.319 not a penny. 357 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:03.039 Yeah, or or or someone at least could have said, well, 358 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.119 here what the savings are. Again. Obviously there was some 359 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:11.400 infrastructure costs to put up the what you mentioned. I 360 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:16.720 forget the name of Gantries, Elbert Gantry, right. 361 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.240 Actually remember that. 362 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.079 But yeah, I just don't get it. And I think 363 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.400 that that you look at all these numbers. We've seen 364 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.960 these numbers for a while. We've had Republican governors, we've 365 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:32.279 had democratic governors, and it just seems the legislature continues 366 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:34.160 on their merry way and they do whatever they want. 367 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.839 John Cheste, I love the piece today. I follow you 368 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.319 very closely. I appreciate you coming on and explaining it 369 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:45.119 because you make it understandable to people who might look 370 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.400 at a piece and look at numbers and kind of 371 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:52.079 gloss over you make it clearly understandable. 372 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.960 And saying that I'm always happy to join you. It's 373 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:54.480 always fun. 374 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:59.000 Absolutely, Thanks John, we'll talk soroon. Okay, all right, you two. 375 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.160 John of the Boston Globe again, if you read the Globe, 376 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.440 you read the business section. He's a columnist who I 377 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:13.440 think really puts it on the line. This article today says, yeah, 378 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:19.000 things are looking better for Massachusetts. However, however we're still losing. 379 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.319 Last year twenty seven thousand people choosing. More people left 380 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.200 Massachusetts than came in. So I want to open it 381 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.640 up here for the balance of this hour. You listen 382 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.599 to John Chesto. Do you have any hope that Massachusetts 383 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.680 can can turn it around? I don't, Frankly, you know, 384 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:42.000 I don't know where else they're going to go, increach 385 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.200 the millionaire's tax, double the triple, quadruple the millionaire's tax, 386 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:51.039 maybe maybe increase the state income tax. Whatever. There's always 387 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.200 people out there saying those people need to pay their 388 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.160 fair share, people need to pay more. Well, you know, 389 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:01.000 eventually there'll be no people left to pay. Uh. That 390 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:05.240 is economics one oh one in my opinion. Uh And 391 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:10.559 maybe in yours. Have you ever thought that is going 392 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.960 to come a day when you're gonna just say sayonara 393 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.880 to Massachusetts and either head north to New Hampshire or 394 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:23.519 head south to places like South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, or Texas. 395 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:27.640 Now again, significant change of people's lifestyle, no doubt about that. 396 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.319 But I just wonder how many of you out there 397 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.119 have actually thought about that or or are you committed 398 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.599 to staying in Massachusetts no matter how much how deep 399 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.039 the politicians dig into your pocket. That's the issue. That's 400 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.839 the question. You got the answer six one, seven, two, five, 401 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.000