Speaker 1: It's night Sime with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Speaker 1: Boston Radio.
Speaker 2: Well, we have occasionally talked about the whole question of
Speaker 2: what they call out migration from Massachusetts, and I was
Speaker 2: reading the Globe this morning in John Chesto, one of
Speaker 2: my favorite columnists in the Globe, wrote a very interesting
Speaker 2: piece saying, people still leaving, but exodus is slowing down.
Speaker 2: I guess there's some good news there, John Chesto, how
Speaker 2: are you tonight.
Speaker 3: I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm trying to find the silver
Speaker 3: lining here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, before the pandemic, we were losing a net
Speaker 3: twenty five to thirty thousand people to other states. Now
Speaker 3: this doesn't factor in immigration from other countries, which is
Speaker 3: a whole other topic, but we were basically a net
Speaker 3: loser to other states in a big way. But then
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two it got a lot worse. Essentially
Speaker 3: the loss double to fifty five thousand.
Speaker 2: Except that these people were working remotely and they decided, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd like it down here.
Speaker 3: In Florida exactly. You wait, a lot of people moved everywhere, now,
Speaker 3: not just Florida, but a lot of places are cheaper
Speaker 3: than Massachusetts. And so during that work remote time, we
Speaker 3: lost a lot of people, and then it's been slowly
Speaker 3: coming back. It dropped the loss to other states dropped
Speaker 3: to thirty six thirty seven thousand the following year, and
Speaker 3: now it's around twenty seven thousand, which is the recent
Speaker 3: history pre pandemic and is sort of in the range
Speaker 3: of where it was before the pandemic. So I think you.
Speaker 2: Piece today you said that we have not been a
Speaker 2: plus migration state. I think you said for fifteen years.
Speaker 2: That would take us back to deval Patrick's first term.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, our last it would either be two thousand
Speaker 3: and nine or twenty ten. We had one year where
Speaker 3: we had a net gain of about five thousand people
Speaker 3: or so. And I've heard different theories on why, but
Speaker 3: one my own personal theory is we during that time
Speaker 3: was the Great Recession. In Massachusetts, believe or not, did
Speaker 3: much better than most areas of the country, and the
Speaker 3: Great Recession, we weren't hit quite as hard, we didn't
Speaker 3: have as many layoffs, and so there were probably more
Speaker 3: job opportunities here at the time.
Speaker 2: How do we do every year between births and deaths,
Speaker 2: because that has to be somewhat of a factor as
Speaker 2: well as mind is that.
Speaker 3: Is the factor as well. And I can't remember the
Speaker 3: exact number, but that you know, generally speaking are When
Speaker 3: I looked at it, it seemed like we were in
Speaker 3: line with the nation.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: And in that that the birth the birth rates are
Speaker 3: slowing down, so we and we have the baby boom
Speaker 3: generation reaching you know, they're not I wouldn't I hate
Speaker 3: to say death age, but you know that there's a
Speaker 3: large there's a big bulge in the population that's getting older,
Speaker 3: moving toward retirement, past retirement.
Speaker 2: The baby Boomer generation, which I think technically started in
Speaker 2: nineteen forty six post World War Two. Those first baby
Speaker 2: Boomers are going to be turning eighty in the next
Speaker 2: year or two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I don't think we're any different than other states.
Speaker 3: The Lord and I can check the numbers. It's seem
Speaker 3: pretty similar. So that doesn't really help us. But we
Speaker 3: are helped by immigration. And of course we have budget
Speaker 3: issues in terms of accommodating immigrants who are coming here
Speaker 3: who don't have a place to live or stay, or
Speaker 3: don't have a job. But there's also we have a
Speaker 3: lot of high earning immigrants that move here from other
Speaker 3: countries too. Because of the knowledge based economy does draw
Speaker 3: people from all over the world.
Speaker 2: How does that break down between people who are coming
Speaker 2: here legitimately on a visa, whether there are you know,
Speaker 2: a doctor at one of Boston's major hospitals, are a
Speaker 2: professor at a college, versus those who are coming here
Speaker 2: without benefit of a visa.
Speaker 3: I honestly don't know that the exact breakdown. I think
Speaker 3: it's a I don't think it's overwhelmingly one category or another.
Speaker 3: I think there's this, you know, substantial number of both
Speaker 3: types coming here. I mean, obviously, looking at how much
Speaker 3: we're spending on you know, you know what, do we
Speaker 3: at one point five billion dollars or something in in
Speaker 3: terms of almost in one year?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, but more than that. Actually, I think
Speaker 2: that the governor has just asked for a supplemental of
Speaker 2: four hundred yeah, gets us close to two billion. It
Speaker 2: was projected all along going to be a billion a
Speaker 2: year once this really kicked in the high gear beginning,
Speaker 2: and you know, in twenty twenty three, and now the governor,
Speaker 2: as you know, is looking at it and saying she's actually,
Speaker 2: it looks to me I've seen some reporting that's suggesting
Speaker 2: that that he wants to go back and review the
Speaker 2: original purposes of the legislation, which I remember.
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I think I think there's a movement
Speaker 3: to try to tweet that legislation that you know, where
Speaker 3: the only state that really has this, you know, to
Speaker 3: make it, to make it so that if you're if
Speaker 3: you have to be sort of an actual legal resident
Speaker 3: of the state for to receive these housing benefits, rather
Speaker 3: than have it just be open to everybody.
Speaker 2: Well, housing benefits in addition to EBT cards and in
Speaker 2: addition to medical appointments, uber uber rides and cab cab fares.
Speaker 2: There's this one company down the Cape, I think it's Centrual.
Speaker 2: They got a no bid six point one million dollar contract. Uh,
Speaker 2: you've got to live. You've got to have a lot
Speaker 2: of cab rides to the birth through Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 3: To get I mean, I will say that the contracts
Speaker 3: that we've seen, and the Globe has done some significant reporting,
Speaker 3: not me, but some of my colleagues on these no
Speaker 3: big contracts. They're astounding just how much money is going
Speaker 3: to you know, the hotels, going to the food prep companies.
Speaker 3: You know, it's really really deserves a thorough scrubbings. You know,
Speaker 3: there's a reason why we have bidding laws here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks to me like that the governor is
Speaker 2: finally coming around to saying, wait a second, or what
Speaker 2: are we doing here? There's there's no other state like Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: Now she says, we're not a sanctuary state. But but
Speaker 2: whether we are or not, in practicality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we do have that law. No law exactly.
Speaker 2: Which was signed by governor to Caucus. I actually was
Speaker 2: at the ceremony. The only reason I remembered is I
Speaker 2: I watched a report of it on two or three
Speaker 2: months ago, and I heard my voice asking the concass
Speaker 2: of question. And I do remember that if you remember,
Speaker 2: homelessness really became an issue around that time, but particularly
Speaker 2: women homelessness. A lot of you know, women found themselves
Speaker 2: out in the street, and at that time, again it's
Speaker 2: forty years ago, people were shocked and said, well, wait
Speaker 2: a second, it's one thing if guys are out in
Speaker 2: the street, we kind of have women and children out
Speaker 2: of the streets. And I believe that was the impetus
Speaker 2: for the law, which was.
Speaker 3: Did you ever expect back then that it would be,
Speaker 3: you know, such a budget buster today?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: No, because it was always thought that, and then they
Speaker 2: got into a controversy subsequent to that where they had
Speaker 2: a lot of people they didn't have enough shelters and
Speaker 2: they were they were they were housing people in hotels
Speaker 2: and that became kind of a controversy.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's been an issue off and on, Well,
Speaker 3: I think ever since really.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, but no, this was never contemplated, the idea of,
Speaker 2: you know, thousands upon thousands of people arriving here on
Speaker 2: their own or being flown into the country, and then
Speaker 2: that they would become beneficiaries of the law. The only
Speaker 2: other there's no other state that has a law like that.
Speaker 2: MI understanding is that there is in the District of Columbia,
Speaker 2: which is not a state but obviously a part of
Speaker 2: the United States, they do have some similar statute. And
Speaker 2: I think New York also, the City of New York,
Speaker 2: had some sort of statute which also became a magnet
Speaker 2: when people started heading up to New York a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago. And now that has fallen into disfavor
Speaker 2: amongst the political leaders in New York. So John Well,
Speaker 2: I got to take a quick break. I'd love to
Speaker 2: see if people want to ask you a couple of questions,
Speaker 2: and I also got a couple of questions as to
Speaker 2: where this trend, Can this trend continue? And what do
Speaker 2: we have to do in Massachusetts to reverse this trend
Speaker 2: because we have the millionaire's tax, which is now on
Speaker 2: the books. There are still people who were leaving Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: Twenty seven thousand people and twenty in the year ended,
Speaker 2: according to your column as I read it last last
Speaker 2: June thirtieth, the prior fiscal year, fiscal year twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: that's enough people almost to fell Fenway Park, a lot.
Speaker 3: Of people the other state.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So let's see what if people want to
Speaker 2: ask a couple of questions. My guest is John Chesto,
Speaker 2: his columns in the Boston Globe. I read them all
Speaker 2: the time. Chesto means business. I love that his piece today.
Speaker 2: People still leaving, but exodus slowing down. Mass was once
Speaker 2: losing eleven hundred people a week to other states was
Speaker 2: just an extraordinary number during the COVID nineteen pandemic. It
Speaker 2: has been cut in half, but it's still a lot.
Speaker 2: Twenty seven thousand, and of course we won't have this
Speaker 2: year's stats until the end of June. Back with John Chester,
Speaker 2: if you'd like to talk a little business six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty six Poe seven nine three t back on
Speaker 2: Nightside following these.
Speaker 1: Messages, Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window
Speaker 1: World Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: My guess it's John Gasto Busino, business columnists from the
Speaker 2: Boston Globe. And John, obviously the trend the last two
Speaker 2: years is in the right direction, but it's still a
Speaker 2: disquieting trend. I mean, it's not as if we've turned
Speaker 2: the corner here. What is it about Massachusetts? You follow
Speaker 2: this more closely than anyone I know. What is it
Speaker 2: about Massachusetts? How would you categorize it? Is it the
Speaker 2: millionaire's tax which is still hurting us? Is it the
Speaker 2: fact that the state tax structure in Massachusetts across the
Speaker 2: board is less a kind or pleasant to its taxpayers
Speaker 2: than Tennessee in New Hampshire? What is or is it?
Speaker 2: Or is it weather? What is it?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: The biggest, the biggest issue is cost of living in Massachusetts,
Speaker 3: and I would put housing as the primary driver of that,
Speaker 3: you know, to the rents and the median home sales
Speaker 3: prices in Massachusetts now, particularly in greater Boston are through
Speaker 3: the roof, and there's no real sign of it falling
Speaker 3: back even with you know, there's no sign that home
Speaker 3: prices have not slowed come down, even though the interest
Speaker 3: rates have gone up. So it's become so much harder
Speaker 3: to buy a house here. I think, you know, we
Speaker 3: see the biggest problem, the biggest problem area in terms
Speaker 3: of about migration right now is the twenty five to
Speaker 3: thirty four year old demographic. And I think you have
Speaker 3: you know, up to that point, you're willing to kind
Speaker 3: of stick it out and like four people buddies in
Speaker 3: a three decker apartment, you know, you know, living on
Speaker 3: top of each other. But as soon as you want
Speaker 3: to think about buying a house or starting a family,
Speaker 3: you need a little more space, you need one more room.
Speaker 3: It just becomes almost impossible. Now that's the biggest driver.
Speaker 3: You mentioned taxes, and our tax situation is not great.
Speaker 3: Tax Foundation ranks us in the bottom ten, at the
Speaker 3: top of the bottom ten. You know, we're better off
Speaker 3: than California, New Jersey and New York, but you know
Speaker 3: New Hampshire is in the top ten. They do great
Speaker 3: and they do draw a lot of people from Massachusetts
Speaker 3: because they don't have an income tax. The issue of
Speaker 3: the millionaire's tax may not be chasing a ton of people.
Speaker 3: That took effect two years ago, and we're still we
Speaker 3: still don't have the IRS data because it even lacks
Speaker 3: the sense its stata to see how many wealthy people
Speaker 3: are leaving the problem with that is the people who
Speaker 3: are going to leave are the people that probably contribute
Speaker 3: the most financially to the economy, either in filling throfic
Speaker 3: work or in just spending money. So that is chasing
Speaker 3: some people a way. I've talked to a lot of people,
Speaker 3: and you've seen some prominent people change their residency to
Speaker 3: other states because of the millionaire's tax, which affects people
Speaker 3: who earn more than a million dollars in any given year.
Speaker 3: We also have a high estate tax, still one of
Speaker 3: the highest, even after a reform that just took effect.
Speaker 3: We have a pretty high capital gains tax too, So
Speaker 3: those are those those sort of counting against us. But
Speaker 3: the high cost of housing, it really is a tough
Speaker 3: one to overcome. And yeah, the weather doesn't help us either.
Speaker 3: I mean right now, it's what twenty twenty degrees you
Speaker 3: know out here, you know, with the windshields a lot,
Speaker 3: a lot colder. But I'll tell you I also did.
Speaker 3: I was talking to a colleague of mine who's who
Speaker 3: has a friend in la and she's her apartment is
Speaker 3: or her house is not affected by the fires, but
Speaker 3: she's you know, she's done with worrying about fires. So
Speaker 3: she's wanted to see, if you know, look at job
Speaker 3: opportunities in Massachusetts. So you know that we do we
Speaker 3: we don't have when it comes to those big natural disasters.
Speaker 3: We we don't have a lot of those, which I'm
Speaker 3: thankful for. But the cold can be pretty inhospitable, that's
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I look, the worst thing we're going to
Speaker 2: get around here are blizzards. I mean, I think I
Speaker 2: have friends of mine in the Plaine States, and beginning
Speaker 2: in April and May, it's like hurricane you know, tornado season.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean the hurricanes here. Really we have
Speaker 3: not had like high death toll type hurricanes like you
Speaker 3: have in the Gulf Coast that usually by the time
Speaker 3: they get here there they've had a little bit of
Speaker 3: the wind knocked out of their sales.
Speaker 2: Why is it, though, Okay, why is it? In your opinion?
Speaker 2: And this is my last question really that we have
Speaker 2: this state where they try to tax people wherever they
Speaker 2: possibly can, uh, and we have One of the things
Speaker 2: that bothers me right now is you know what's going
Speaker 2: on in New York with the congestion pricing, and I
Speaker 2: think that's going to be coming to Boston. It's going
Speaker 2: to be impossible to get into Boston between the like
Speaker 2: lanes and if and when they introduced congestion pricing. Are
Speaker 2: the politicians that they have that amount of avarice? They
Speaker 2: just need more and more money to keep people on
Speaker 2: the payroll. We looked at the globes U Mass Amherst
Speaker 2: salaries last hour and it's like.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, pretty high.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it was ten percent increase of the
Speaker 2: mass budget with a decrease of I think it was
Speaker 2: three percent or whatever in students. There's just a disconnect
Speaker 2: that seems to me between the leadership on Beacon Hill.
Speaker 2: I always thought that Governor Healy would be sort of
Speaker 2: a a mitigating factor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a moderate check and bounce type on them.
Speaker 3: And I think she's I think she's tried. She's tried
Speaker 3: to be I mean really obviously you know as well
Speaker 3: as I that it's really up to the legislature in
Speaker 3: terms of what taxes get asked. She she did sort
Speaker 3: of help. You know, there was a tax reform package
Speaker 3: that didn't get done in the legislature before her, when
Speaker 3: Charlie Baker was still governor. She helped get that across
Speaker 3: the finish line. But you know, I do I think
Speaker 3: congestion price. I mean, you saw what happened when her
Speaker 3: state transportation secretary started making maybe too much noise about
Speaker 3: putting tolls up everywhere. So there she she she knows
Speaker 3: that there's a there, it's a that's a like a
Speaker 3: third rail to use a transportation pun of politics is,
Speaker 3: you know, putting tolls up everywhere and using suggestion pricing.
Speaker 3: So she's very reluctant to go that direction. I think
Speaker 3: it's some I know some legislators have been really trying
Speaker 3: to because they they view tolls as an act of
Speaker 3: it's unfair because commuters from the west are getting hit,
Speaker 3: but not commuters from the north or south who benefit
Speaker 3: from the big dig but don't have to drive through
Speaker 3: a toll road. So I think I don't. I think
Speaker 3: congestion pricing is going to be a tough sell. And
Speaker 3: Beacon hild but I do think now that you can
Speaker 3: just throw these gantries up and you don't you know,
Speaker 3: that over the highway and you don't need to have
Speaker 3: toll takers. I think you will probably see tolls on
Speaker 3: some of the other highways eventually. It's going to take
Speaker 3: time because you know, it's a real complicated federal process
Speaker 3: you have to go through to the state. Can't just
Speaker 3: decide to put tolls up on federal highways. I think
Speaker 3: I think they're you know, I would say the Healthy
Speaker 3: administration's cognizant of the backlash the state legislature. Some of
Speaker 3: them are. But you know, you know, if you look
Speaker 3: at how compare to Boston's budget increase, which was they were.
Speaker 5: Moving.
Speaker 3: You know, the wool administration just got through an eight
Speaker 3: percent budget increase, including a one percent related to the
Speaker 3: transfer of bp A onto this onto the city's budget. Uh,
Speaker 3: the state was less than half of that. I don't
Speaker 3: remember what the exact percent increase. Of course, the downside
Speaker 3: is what you don't what what what you don't here
Speaker 3: get added into the total until way later. These supplemental
Speaker 3: budgets that pop up during like you mentioned, the one
Speaker 3: that you know is being talked about for Yeah, so though,
Speaker 3: like you hear about the regular budget that gets approved
Speaker 3: always late, but usually in the summer, and it's like
Speaker 3: a two or three percent increase. But then these sub
Speaker 3: budgets keep coming through. So I honestly, if you're throwing
Speaker 3: the sub budgets, we might have a lot more. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's uh, and it's funny how that's there are these
Speaker 3: We always still have a ton of money in the
Speaker 3: Rainy Day Fund. It just seems like we might be
Speaker 3: able to use a little bit more of that to
Speaker 3: soften the you know, avoid avoid the I would say,
Speaker 3: like any sort of increase because now we are getting
Speaker 3: to the point where we're going to have to we're
Speaker 3: talking about we need to do something about the MBTA,
Speaker 3: and that's that's going to be a real painful discussion.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: They're talking about using some of that millionaire search share
Speaker 3: tax money millionaires tax or tax money to prop up
Speaker 3: the MBTA, which has a seven hundred or eight hundred
Speaker 3: million dollar operating deficit. But I don't think that's going
Speaker 3: to cover it all. Of course, there's probably some savings
Speaker 3: to be found in the MBTA as well. And see
Speaker 3: the state saying, you know, we really keep savings.
Speaker 2: John, in Massachusetts have a tendency of disappearing. I remember
Speaker 2: when they went to they got rid of all the
Speaker 2: toll takers, and I thought to myself, this is a
Speaker 2: good idea, because whatever the number was, two hundred toll takers.
Speaker 2: You know, you think about the pensions and you think
Speaker 2: about the salaries. But ah, I don't see an yeah.
Speaker 3: We didn't get we didn't get any benefit from that saving,
Speaker 3: not a penny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or or or someone at least could have said, well,
Speaker 2: here what the savings are. Again. Obviously there was some
Speaker 2: infrastructure costs to put up the what you mentioned. I
Speaker 2: forget the name of Gantries, Elbert Gantry, right.
Speaker 3: Actually remember that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just don't get it. And I think
Speaker 2: that that you look at all these numbers. We've seen
Speaker 2: these numbers for a while. We've had Republican governors, we've
Speaker 2: had democratic governors, and it just seems the legislature continues
Speaker 2: on their merry way and they do whatever they want.
Speaker 2: John Cheste, I love the piece today. I follow you
Speaker 2: very closely. I appreciate you coming on and explaining it
Speaker 2: because you make it understandable to people who might look
Speaker 2: at a piece and look at numbers and kind of
Speaker 2: gloss over you make it clearly understandable.
Speaker 3: And saying that I'm always happy to join you. It's
Speaker 3: always fun.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Thanks John, we'll talk soroon. Okay, all right, you two.
Speaker 2: John of the Boston Globe again, if you read the Globe,
Speaker 2: you read the business section. He's a columnist who I
Speaker 2: think really puts it on the line. This article today says, yeah,
Speaker 2: things are looking better for Massachusetts. However, however we're still losing.
Speaker 2: Last year twenty seven thousand people choosing. More people left
Speaker 2: Massachusetts than came in. So I want to open it
Speaker 2: up here for the balance of this hour. You listen
Speaker 2: to John Chesto. Do you have any hope that Massachusetts
Speaker 2: can can turn it around? I don't, Frankly, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know where else they're going to go, increach
Speaker 2: the millionaire's tax, double the triple, quadruple the millionaire's tax,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe increase the state income tax. Whatever. There's always
Speaker 2: people out there saying those people need to pay their
Speaker 2: fair share, people need to pay more. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: eventually there'll be no people left to pay. Uh. That
Speaker 2: is economics one oh one in my opinion. Uh And
Speaker 2: maybe in yours. Have you ever thought that is going
Speaker 2: to come a day when you're gonna just say sayonara
Speaker 2: to Massachusetts and either head north to New Hampshire or
Speaker 2: head south to places like South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, or Texas.
Speaker 2: Now again, significant change of people's lifestyle, no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: But I just wonder how many of you out there
Speaker 2: have actually thought about that or or are you committed
Speaker 2: to staying in Massachusetts no matter how much how deep
Speaker 2: the politicians dig into your pocket. That's the issue. That's
Speaker 2: the question. You got the answer six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten thirty.
Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray. What we try to do
Speaker 2: one night Side is make you think. Okay, that's all
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do. So if you're out there thinking,
Speaker 2: I want to know what you're thinking. That's what the
Speaker 2: program is all about. There's no one better than John.
Speaker 2: You listen to him for the half an hour that
Speaker 2: he joined us. Now it's time for us to listen
Speaker 2: to you. Come back on night Side right after the
Speaker 2: news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the future of Massachusetts, and we had
Speaker 2: in the first half hour of the ten o'clock hour,
Speaker 2: we talked with John Chestow the Boston Globe. I think
Speaker 2: the guy does a great work for the Globe, and
Speaker 2: he I think put it in really good perspective today.
Speaker 2: So my question took all of you out there, particularly
Speaker 2: those of you in Massachusetts or those of you outside
Speaker 2: of Massachusetts. Are you sick of the tax policies in
Speaker 2: your state? I certainly am sick of the tax policies
Speaker 2: at Massachusetts. I was born, brought up here, raised here,
Speaker 2: worked here for my entire life. But I don't feel
Speaker 2: a great loyalty to the state. Maybe you do. Let's
Speaker 2: see what what others think. Six one, seven, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty, six, seven, nine, three, ten thirty. I'm going
Speaker 2: to Bill and Danvers. Bill, you're here for the long
Speaker 2: run in Massachusetts.
Speaker 5: Uh No, I'm definitely not. I mean the implation slowed
Speaker 5: me down a little bit from making maybe some moves.
Speaker 5: But I mean I've been sort of looking at maybe
Speaker 5: Myrtle Beach. Uh if they could fix some of the
Speaker 5: insurance issues maybe in Florida. Uh, that would be even
Speaker 5: a cheaper tax wise, but I'll pay a little bit.
Speaker 5: In South property taxes are very cheaper Myrtle Beach. I mean,
Speaker 5: I've been down a few times. It's uh. And you know,
Speaker 5: I know the gentleman he had on he talked about
Speaker 5: the housing price and stuff. I was fortunate. I've been
Speaker 5: annoying it. But I tell you I couldn't buy my
Speaker 5: condoc now if I had them. It's ridiculous. And uh,
Speaker 5: you know, I'm a single guy. I mean, I don't
Speaker 5: know how a guy with a kid or two and
Speaker 5: the wife, I mean, unless they're really hustle and hustling.
Speaker 5: I got friends of mine, it's very difficult. Some of
Speaker 5: them had three kids and that's very hot. Also, you know,
Speaker 5: we didn't talk about utilities. I mean, when you have
Speaker 5: natural gas, if you look at delivery charge this time
Speaker 5: a year, and that stems really from them killing the
Speaker 5: originally I think five six years in fact, I talked
Speaker 5: to Governor Sanoona one time he was on your program
Speaker 5: because New Hampshire they would have benefited if they had
Speaker 5: brought up they wanted and they wanted to bring almost
Speaker 5: one close to New Hampshire. There was originally two they
Speaker 5: were going to bring up out of Pennsylvania. Then they
Speaker 5: tried one and then that died. But uh, not bringing
Speaker 5: those pipes lines up here and the delivery charge and
Speaker 5: the natural gas issues has really damaged the state in
Speaker 5: New England. Actually it's unfortunate, you know. So you know,
Speaker 5: I don't really hold out a lot of hope. I
Speaker 5: don't think there's too many deep thinkers up and becon held.
Speaker 5: They just want to get by one thing to the
Speaker 5: eye there and cover whatever they got going on and
Speaker 5: and and and eventually the music is gonna stop playing
Speaker 5: because the people that are leaving and the most productive citizens. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: and I'll tell you this, guys, if you put in
Speaker 5: the hotel is not going to make it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you want to talk about utility bills, check
Speaker 2: out your your electric bill this month, uh and checked
Speaker 2: out check out the supply charges. Those were the supply
Speaker 2: charges on my bill. The supply charge was doubled from
Speaker 2: like you know, zero point one zero to point two two.
Speaker 2: And I watched that stuff pretty closely. So I went
Speaker 2: back a year ago and there was no jump in
Speaker 2: the supply charge. It was almost as if they said, well,
Speaker 2: well we gotta we got to raise some aspect of
Speaker 2: this bill. You know, I don't understand that the natural
Speaker 2: the National grid bill has actually been more reasonable to
Speaker 2: me this winter than uh, than it has been in
Speaker 2: the past. But you're absolutely right. They wanted to bring
Speaker 2: some pipelines into Massachusetts and we had officials from an
Speaker 2: Astro grid on talking about that three or four years ago,
Speaker 2: and they they said, hey, look, if if we don't
Speaker 2: increase the supply, the price is going to go up. Uh.
Speaker 2: And sure enough that is what has happened. So welcome
Speaker 2: to Massachusetts. You know, how many how many more years
Speaker 2: do you think you'll you'll work out here? What? What's
Speaker 2: what's your target date?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I'm thinking, you know, it depends on how much they
Speaker 5: increase the rent, you know, the overall bills. I mean,
Speaker 5: I may have three to five years they had left
Speaker 5: and then I got it. I have a second thing
Speaker 5: going to the last few years. I'll see how that goes,
Speaker 5: and then I don't know, I mean, I'll make this.
Speaker 5: I would logically, I've always felt that I wanted to
Speaker 5: keep at least one foothold here, you know, because I
Speaker 5: do like my doctors. Then I mean, I've been to
Speaker 5: a lot of places. We are fortunate still they have
Speaker 5: the doctors we have, but the medical thing, and to
Speaker 5: be honest with there's some of the food too. You
Speaker 5: go to the different areas of the country, they can't
Speaker 5: make a sandwich. Those are really the only two things
Speaker 5: that I really have any passion for in the state,
Speaker 5: to be honest, The roads, the infrastructure, you know, if
Speaker 5: you maybe a few friends. But other than that, I
Speaker 5: can't really say, you know, I you know, ultimately I'll
Speaker 5: be buried there because I ever bought a plot, but
Speaker 5: I just don't want to spend you know, the weather,
Speaker 5: you know, I just I'm every year, I just get
Speaker 5: round down more. And I'll tell you if they do
Speaker 5: the congestive stuff, you know, going out of Boston and
Speaker 5: the like they're doing in New York, and if they
Speaker 5: really get crazy with more too, I may just get
Speaker 5: to the point where I'm just fed up one day,
Speaker 5: and if the lease is almost done and I put
Speaker 5: the house up for sale and I'm out of here altogether.
Speaker 2: The thing, too, is that if you don't have to
Speaker 2: go to Boston, you don't wanted to worry about it.
Speaker 2: Just at pricing. I don't know, if your business takes
Speaker 2: you to Boston, but try to drive into Boston now
Speaker 2: the bike lanes have just gone over the top. They've
Speaker 2: spent one hundred I know, I'm not a million dollars
Speaker 2: on bike lanes in Boston.
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm you know.
Speaker 5: I going out around Cambridge too, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: very narrow and uh. I went to the gym not
Speaker 5: too long ago because I planed a fitness will depending
Speaker 5: where I am, I have the bag sometimes, you know,
Speaker 5: And I went to one a mass out by Leslie College,
Speaker 5: you know, downstairs and back across the street. But get
Speaker 5: in and out and the little streets around there and
Speaker 5: the bike lanes, I'm like, you know, and it's the
Speaker 5: dark night. You gotta take it slow and hopefully they
Speaker 5: you know, the usually have these lights and the bikes
Speaker 5: now they roll up and down. But I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's tough if you take it streets that were done
Speaker 5: over one hundred years ago and putting bike lanes on them.
Speaker 5: And it's tough it was to putting it.
Speaker 2: Does it make sense? Bill? I appreciate your callers always.
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon, okay, when you when I decided to
Speaker 2: let me know, remember you can get w BZ down
Speaker 2: in South Carolina. We got a lot of listeners in
Speaker 2: South Carolina.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, I'll be calling them from the golf course.
Speaker 2: Sounds great, Thanks, Belle, appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, six.
Speaker 2: Eight, nine, nine, ten thirty or better. Yet, here's a couple.
Speaker 2: It's easy, six one, seven ninety. Peg is in New Hampshire. Peg,
Speaker 2: have you already left?
Speaker 7: I did, Hi, Danne, I haven't talked here in a while.
Speaker 2: Right used to be Peg from Haveril.
Speaker 7: I know and Peg. That's why I haven't talked. I've
Speaker 7: been in the process of a move right before Thanksgiving,
Speaker 7: and it has so much to do with if you
Speaker 7: remember some of our conversations. My rent had doubled, like
Speaker 7: in the past couple of years. It went up amazing,
Speaker 7: and I started looking for something small and I said
Speaker 7: to the realtor, I can go to the the the
Speaker 7: northern part of Massachusetts where which is where I've been,
Speaker 7: or the southern part of New Hampshire. And when something
Speaker 7: was found in New Hampshire, I set them in. So, yeah,
Speaker 7: I am now a much Let me ask you just
Speaker 7: give me.
Speaker 2: A rough idea. How much of a difference is it
Speaker 2: in terms of I assume the properties. I hope the
Speaker 2: properties are fairly comparable in terms of size and convenience
Speaker 2: and all of that.
Speaker 7: Well, I have to tell you, in all honesty, because
Speaker 7: I'm older, I'm getting closer to retirement, which is going
Speaker 7: to still be a while because it's expensive. So I
Speaker 7: purchased a mobile home and it's actually cheaper. It was
Speaker 7: cheaper than my rent, and it's actually cheaper than some
Speaker 7: of the mobile homes that I saw. And this one's
Speaker 7: really new, it's like twelve years old. So and some
Speaker 7: of them, you know, I saw in Massachusetts in mobile
Speaker 7: home parks and they were more expensive, you know. And
Speaker 7: I'm up here now and I'm like, oh, you know,
Speaker 7: there's no more excise tax. I made sure that at work,
Speaker 7: I changed it because now I also transferred my job.
Speaker 7: So even though I didn't change jobs in New Hampshire,
Speaker 7: I will keep my income tax.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so waste.
Speaker 2: So you're still working in Massachusetts.
Speaker 7: Nope. I worked for a company that is throughout Massachusetts,
Speaker 7: New Hampshire, New York.
Speaker 4: So I just transferred.
Speaker 7: So I'm in the same company, but a different store
Speaker 7: in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: Okay, you had been working in Massachusetts, so you were
Speaker 2: paying such a tax in Massachusetts So not only did
Speaker 2: you improve you a lot financially from appointed from you
Speaker 2: your living conditions, but now your salary is going to
Speaker 2: in effect increase because you don't if they won't be
Speaker 2: taking new Massachusetts taxes out. That's great.
Speaker 7: That is it is And I have to tell you,
Speaker 7: you know, you and I've had conversations about money before.
Speaker 7: You know, the rent was so much and I didn't
Speaker 7: live in Boston. I was forty miles.
Speaker 4: Outside of Boston.
Speaker 7: You know, Yeah, it's just it's too much money.
Speaker 2: When when finally people leave, it's just I guess the
Speaker 2: last one out, turn out the lights and we'll be
Speaker 2: all set.
Speaker 7: And it's just.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy here. But I thought we had lost
Speaker 2: you as a listener and as a caller, So keep listening.
Speaker 2: Uh Oh was the mobile home and you want to
Speaker 2: or one that that was? You know, is there a
Speaker 2: marketplace for.
Speaker 7: It's twelve years old and there's actually quite a few.
Speaker 7: I wasn't going to do that. I came in with
Speaker 7: my adult one of my adult children, you know, I said, Okay,
Speaker 7: we'll just do this together because he's never going to
Speaker 7: get married. You can have it when I'm gone. But
Speaker 7: it's big enough it's clean, and you know, it's welcoming,
Speaker 7: and I'm not putting up with with the taxes and
Speaker 7: a lot of the prices of things, and I have
Speaker 7: to admit it's not a sanctuary, you know, city, and
Speaker 7: I just feel a little more comfortable.
Speaker 2: Good for you, Good for you. All right, congratulations, Peg,
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon. Thanks so much.
Speaker 7: I will be calling you again. Thanksgian.
Speaker 4: All right, thanks bag.
Speaker 2: Thanks, We'll take quick break. I got some open lines
Speaker 2: here six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six
Speaker 2: one seven, nine three one ten thirty. We're going to
Speaker 2: hear from another high tax state, which of course is
Speaker 2: on New York, our sister state here, uh in the northeast.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to join the conversation. Are you someone
Speaker 2: who is deeply committed to the to Massachusetts or wherever
Speaker 2: you live, or are you now somewhat influenced by the
Speaker 2: tax rate and the weather and whatever other factors are
Speaker 2: making you look elsewhere? There are still more people. I
Speaker 2: think Massachusetts has the fifth greatest out migration of any
Speaker 2: state in a Marria. At twenty seven tho it's about
Speaker 2: half of what it was the year before, not half.
Speaker 2: It was half of what it was two years ago,
Speaker 2: but more and more people, a lot of people are
Speaker 2: leaving the car Multa, Massachusetts. Love to know your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Be right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Raay live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Let's keep rolling here, gonna go to will and Long Island. Will.
Speaker 2: I got a couple of callers behind you, so I
Speaker 2: want to be a little quicker tonight than usual. How
Speaker 2: are you, sir?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well this is pretty quick because you know, we
Speaker 4: suffer from the same problems that you guys suffer from. Expensive.
Speaker 4: I mean I moved from Nashville County about five six
Speaker 4: years ago, the second highest property taxes in the country
Speaker 4: and county wise, to the fifth or sixth highest in
Speaker 4: Suffolk County. You know, the amount of property taxes that
Speaker 4: I pay per year is someone's salary almost. It's actually ridiculous.
Speaker 4: And the services that we get. I go to other
Speaker 4: states like Florida and I asked them to have garbage men, yeah,
Speaker 4: did police, Yeah, you have fireman? You have a yeah?
Speaker 4: Well then how come you pay two thousand and I
Speaker 4: pay twenty thousand. You know, there's a big difference in
Speaker 4: my state and other states and I don't feel that
Speaker 4: I get the services that they get in other states
Speaker 4: for the disproportionate amount of taxes that I'm paying, and
Speaker 4: it's a lot of the waste that's bad.
Speaker 2: I have a pretty normal house here in Newton, Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: Want to guess what I pay in property taxes?
Speaker 4: I would imagine something extremely high. Thirty thousand. Yeah, no, Dan,
Speaker 4: let me tell you something I'm not. I'm not a
Speaker 4: wealthy man, Okay. I have a regular business, like a
Speaker 4: regular entrepreneur in this country. It's like having a job,
Speaker 4: you know, and.
Speaker 2: Sure that type of the last person gets paid.
Speaker 4: And I wouldn't even be so upset about it if
Speaker 4: it weren't if I were getting, you know, a massive
Speaker 4: amount of services as compared to other states. Because I
Speaker 4: have family that lives in North Carolina, I have a
Speaker 4: lot of family in Florida, And I got to talk.
Speaker 4: The idea of being from New York is so much
Speaker 4: better than the actual reality when you travel around the
Speaker 4: country and people like, oh, you're from New York. Yeah,
Speaker 4: there's nothing, There's nothing that's special about this. I gotta
Speaker 4: be honest. I love the fact that I was raised here,
Speaker 4: but I think I'm going to spend my twilight year
Speaker 4: someone else. I tell my kids all the time, I
Speaker 4: go when you get out of college. You know, as
Speaker 4: you go out to college, there'll be a for sale
Speaker 4: sign on the house, and when you come back home,
Speaker 4: it'll be to a nice, really warm pleasure.
Speaker 2: And we also, well, I appreciate it, man, I really do.
Speaker 2: Thank you much. Sometime next call. Thanks. Just keep rolling.
Speaker 2: Going to get Betty in the boat. Betty, I want
Speaker 2: to get you in one more in go ahead.
Speaker 8: Betty, I wouldn't move in a New York minute.
Speaker 2: Well, you have a special situation here, you're living on
Speaker 2: a boat. You got it figured out.
Speaker 8: I had it figured out. But my host for living
Speaker 8: on the boat went from ten years ago about eight
Speaker 8: hundred dollars a month, and now it's up to fifteen
Speaker 8: hundred dollars a month. I didn't have to pay for
Speaker 8: my real estate taxes. I didn't have to pay for
Speaker 8: water taxes. I had it made. Electricity was included.
Speaker 7: Now there's a.
Speaker 8: Waterways tax now that you have to pay a mooring
Speaker 8: fee on the City of Boston, even if you are
Speaker 8: docked year round and you don't use a mooring.
Speaker 2: I pay Someone said. Someone said Betty on the boat
Speaker 2: and people like her, we need to dig into their pockets.
Speaker 2: That's what happened.
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, and they've dug deep, and you know, it
Speaker 8: was a great retirement. But I'll tell you, Dan, all
Speaker 8: I have to do is turn the key on and
Speaker 8: I'm out of here. And the one thing that is
Speaker 8: keeping me here in Boston is the fact that I
Speaker 8: have wonderful services that I cannot find elsewhere in the country.
Speaker 2: And of course what type of services, what type of services.
Speaker 8: Well, for the senior citizens, I have the laundry service.
Speaker 8: I have a lady who comes in and helps me
Speaker 8: with the cleaning. I have, you know, so you don't
Speaker 8: think that.
Speaker 2: In a more temperate climate, like a place like South Carolina,
Speaker 2: that that service doesn't exist. I mean, I don't want
Speaker 2: you to leave, Betty, don't get me wrong, but I'm
Speaker 2: just saying that that I want you to stay. Don't
Speaker 2: get me wrong. But boy, if they're picking your pockets,
Speaker 2: that's not fair.
Speaker 8: I want. When my cat got sick, this is an
Speaker 8: example of how bad Massachusetts is. Maya got sick with
Speaker 8: renal failure in August and I took her to the
Speaker 8: animal hospital and for two nights at the veterinarian hospital.
Speaker 8: Do you know how much they wanted and there was
Speaker 8: no guarante that she was going to live.
Speaker 2: I'm going to guess one thousand dollars. I'm going to
Speaker 2: guess one thousand.
Speaker 8: Dollars, seven thousand, nine and eighty two dollars and thirty
Speaker 8: two cents.
Speaker 2: I would be turning that key and head into South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, though, that's ridiculous. That is ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Seven dollars or two nights for a cat. Oh my god.
Speaker 8: And I said, may I worked in neurology at mass
Speaker 8: General few years and I said, may I see her
Speaker 8: labs please? And I lift her the labs. I called
Speaker 8: my very front and I said, and I said, John,
Speaker 8: this is my problem. He said, whatever you want to do,
Speaker 8: I'll stay with you. I was told this cat had
Speaker 8: under forty eight hours to live and live. And you
Speaker 8: know who just jumped off the kitchen table?
Speaker 4: The cat?
Speaker 2: The cat?
Speaker 7: I remember that, Yeah? The cat?
Speaker 2: All right, all right, Beddy, I got one more. I
Speaker 2: got to sneak in here. I want you to stay,
Speaker 2: but if you go, you got to let me know. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll let you.
Speaker 8: I'll let you be the captain.
Speaker 2: All right, bags, fatty talk soon. Let me get Warren
Speaker 2: in here. One last of the hour. You got about
Speaker 2: a minute and a half. Are you ready to stay
Speaker 2: or you're gonna go? Warren?
Speaker 6: Oh, if I had the money, if I had the means,
Speaker 6: I would be long gone. I would be somewhere where
Speaker 6: it's not so congested.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And you know, like in the taxes taxes here, it's
Speaker 6: return on investment. A lot of people feel like, Okay,
Speaker 6: for the money that they pay in taxes, we're not
Speaker 6: getting the services you know back, you know, like when
Speaker 6: we're when we're paying for a legles to be in
Speaker 6: hotel rooms, you know. I mean, yeah, that's kind of
Speaker 6: it's kind of outlandish.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I live in a city where last week
Speaker 2: or was it last week, No, two weeks ago, I
Speaker 2: literally spent half the day trying to make sure my
Speaker 2: actually get picked up. I mean yeah, it's like it's like.
Speaker 6: Well, it's I mean, I work with people. I work
Speaker 6: with people who are barely getting by, barely getting by.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, we're you know, we work in
Speaker 6: a print shop. But it's yeah, a lot of these
Speaker 6: people are just barely barely.
Speaker 2: More and more people just barely getting by, and and
Speaker 2: I have no idea where all the money that we
Speaker 2: pay actually goes. And I know I'm getting tired of it.
Speaker 6: It goes into the politician's pockets. It's ay amazing. How
Speaker 6: how a politician one hundred thousand dollars in their bank
Speaker 6: account when they start and when they leave their millionaires.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's a that's a good trick on.
Speaker 2: I gotta let you run because I'm up against it.
Speaker 2: As always, Thank you, my friends. Thanks, talk to you soon.
Speaker 2: Really appreciate you taking the time. When we get back
Speaker 2: after the eleven o'clock news, I think I'm going to
Speaker 2: change topics. Stay with me. I think you'll like the
Speaker 2: topic coming up.