WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:05.120 Hello, Welcome to the nowe Jose podcast. Today, I'm joined 2 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.240 by a patron of the show, Tiller, because I like 3 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:09.800 talking to you guys. You guys have interesting things to say, 4 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:12.960 and I always like when the content comes to me, 5 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:17.160 So why not incentivize that. Today we will be talking 6 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:21.760 about Marcianism, digging into that topic a little bit off 7 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:23.679 the beaten path of what we typically cover. Although I 8 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:26.039 think there's a lot of crossover, a lot of symbolism. 9 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:29.879 I think it's worbly worthwhile taking the deep, taking the 10 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:34.920 dive into this. So I'm interested into hearing more. We 11 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.479 will see you in the show. Make sure to subscribe 12 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:40.520 and hit that bell for notifications. We'll see you. 13 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:20.200 Just no mother, be lovest. Grember will always be exploited. 14 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.000 I'm falling, Dusty. 15 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:26.200 Don't let. 16 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:32.040 I'm staring at John drinking by st bad. 17 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:34.519 Share the mother. 18 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:42.480 See one list say that you for me. 19 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:52.879 To fail the words I can't see don't dear. 20 00:01:53.920 --> 00:02:27.759 Versus big shout out to that the thin line one, 21 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.319 two three, that's good. I've meant to give him a 22 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.719 shadow at the jump, but a big shout to him. 23 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:36.280 He's also the one who did the intro for already dead. 24 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:39.199 That absolute banger. So I've been sitting on that one 25 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.039 for a while. I'm glad to finally get in the 26 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:44.639 chance to use it. But today we have Tiller with us. 27 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.360 Pleasure to have you here. You look absolutely fabulous. We 28 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:50.680 had a little bit of technical difficulties and we had 29 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.599 to make do. So that's the caddiers. We're going the 30 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:58.479 way Fuentes. Yeah, so glad to have you with me. Brother, 31 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:01.280 you want to go in entreroduce yourself to the audience. 32 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:04.560 I guess kind of give a whatever kind of summation 33 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:07.199 you want to give people of you, uh and what 34 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.400 you're about, uh and uh and the like. Maybe what 35 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:13.479 kind of brought you in the sphere? I guess kind of. 36 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:13.919 I don't know. 37 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.039 You are a this is you are a support of 38 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:17.840 the show, so I am kind of interested how you uh, 39 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:20.319 how you fell into the show. Whether it was through 40 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:22.080 the comedy angle, I don't know. I've been I've been 41 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:23.879 on a different bunch of different platforms. It was always 42 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.639 interesting to see how you came here, or maybe you 43 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.120 came through Austin. We never know, who knows the Schizzer Bros. 44 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:31.800 Path you came down? 45 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:42.080 Great question, actually, I either I either found you specifically 46 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:47.639 on Twitter and that and then your specific channel, or 47 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:57.319 found probably Clint actually connects in that sort of way. 48 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.520 I probably found Clint and then stumbled in the Tower 49 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:04.879 Gang because he probably actually no, he very often would 50 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.080 say like I also do Tower Gang, don't go watch them. 51 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.479 That's how I found Tower Gang and the Twitter, and 52 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.719 then I found out you do your own show. And 53 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:20.199 I think that's probably the after the whole split, you 54 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.160 probably do the the best and most frequent content out 55 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:26.480 of the the five of you. I believe. 56 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:30.680 All right, Well, I appreciate the the up, so I 57 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:32.920 guess you kind of more of the Tower gang sorder 58 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.680 through Clint. Kind of weird is there's so many different avenues, 59 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.000 so it is interesting to see how you got. 60 00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:40.240 The fact that I that I am a Tower Gang 61 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.839 and enjoyer should not reflect upon the church in any way, 62 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:48.920 shape or form, just just to just to distance the church. 63 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.079 The church is a great place. I am a degenerate 64 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:53.240 that has found Jesus. 65 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:59.519 Yes I have not, but but I don't know. Yes, 66 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:01.360 we're we are all a little bit degenderate in our 67 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:03.720 own different ways, but I I don't think it's always 68 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:05.680 necessarily that bad. It's okay to have a little bit 69 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.199 of fun. But today we brought you on to talk 70 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.000 about Martianism. You uh, you know kind of I know, 71 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:14.680 I like to farm my people for content. I like 72 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.439 to talk to you guys, and you seem to make 73 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:19.240 an appeal for it. Now it strikes me from the 74 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:21.959 little tiny bit I've dug into, the Martianism strikes me 75 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.439 as basically gnocissism. Is there any sort of meaningful difference 76 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:27.800 between it and Mossism or is it just some sect 77 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:28.079 of it? 78 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.639 Major difference for sure that that's actually one of the 79 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.120 things that we we like to differentiate to say, it's 80 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:38.399 it's we have certain things in common in the sense 81 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:43.279 that a lot of Gnostic Christians are non Judeo. Marcian 82 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:47.879 Knights are also non Judeo as well. But one of 83 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.759 the key differences is like, uh, you know, and Gnostics 84 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:53.560 are going to get mad right away five minutes in 85 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.120 and I'm already gonna make some make some friends. But 86 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:02.240 they seem to let Yahweh, the Juh Jewish God live 87 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.079 rent free in their head for their entire lives. They 88 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.680 just wake up and find reasons to be angry at yahweh, 89 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.639 rather than waking up and finding reasons to appreciate Jesus. 90 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.000 So that's that's the key difference is that they're moulding 91 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:17.079 about and you guys aren't. 92 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:21.319 Not a difference, but a lot of Gnostics will use 93 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:26.800 like the Naghamadi highly recommended though like as a Marcia 94 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.439 und I still read it and like I, you know, 95 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:32.920 the Testamentum, you can only read through it so many, 96 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.120 so many times. You got to, you know, get something new, 97 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:38.199 fresh things to I'm a ponderer. I like I have 98 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.800 a stack of a bunch of different bibles over to 99 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:46.839 my right. I have a weird affinity of collecting old bibles. 100 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.079 I just think they're neat and interesting. And the Nagamaditi 101 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:52.800 Nagamadi is one that I want to actually put in 102 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:57.040 my physical collection. But it's it's certainly interesting, especially if 103 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.680 you like read the Book of Genesis and you're like, huh, 104 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.000 there's got to be something more here. The Namadi is like, oh, 105 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.920 there's more here, but that's not Marsianism. And I'd like 106 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:12.040 to talk more about that than Hebrew nonsense, you know. 107 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:14.560 Yeah, And well, I guess just to say a little 108 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:16.519 bit in the Hebrew nonsense is maybe an opening to 109 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.079 kind of get into what it is. I guess this 110 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:20.920 is more kind of in the realm of what makes 111 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:24.120 it similar. And I think maybe I don't want to 112 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.800 talk past our audience here because I know what like 113 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:28.480 the kind of what I'm driving at, you know, and 114 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.600 what we're talking about when you say they're non Judeo. 115 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.600 But I guess kind of, I mean maybe kind of 116 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.519 like maybe we should just spell it out for our audience, 117 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:40.079 like kind of this key difference between like Judeo Christianity 118 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.319 and like the is the Gnostics or the Marsianists or 119 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:46.439 what what is that key difference? 120 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:46.720 I mean? 121 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:48.160 And if I guess I could pass it off to 122 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:50.079 you to lay lay out, I mean, I know I can. 123 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:53.600 It's obviously that uh and funny enough as me being 124 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:55.879 someone who is an agnostic atheist, it's kind of an 125 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.680 appealing argument in a sense because it is like if 126 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:00.959 you do look at the full body of the Bible, 127 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:02.800 you do see the Old Testament, New Testament, and you 128 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:06.480 do see like it's always this like weird, confounded argument 129 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:09.839 about some sort of Jesus did something in relation to law, 130 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.079 and that's how it's somehow different than it was before 131 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:16.439 or whatever the fuck, and so therefore, you know, it 132 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.759 was okay that he was a dick and was like, 133 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:21.959 you know, totally advocating genocide and like, you know, doing 134 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.319 all this crazy like murder everyone except for the women 135 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:28.360 that still have their hymens, like like just insane, like 136 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:32.039 barbaric stuff. And then you're like, but then New Testament comes, 137 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.399 You're like, we're chill now, something to do with the 138 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:38.000 law or something, so we're cool. You know, depending on 139 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:42.039 your interpretation, somehow it makes you you find a way 140 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.639 to connect those two dots, whereas it seems like Gnocissism 141 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.600 Marsianism is gone. Ah, no, your your instinct is correct. 142 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:52.440 You got bamboozled, which leads to this inevitable Okay, well 143 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:55.240 then there was a death cult and we might still 144 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:58.000 be seeing that today. But I'll pass it off to 145 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.159 you to kind of lay it out. I guess I 146 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:01.840 kind of kind kind of revealed it there a little bit. 147 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:02.480 But go ahead. 148 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:06.039 No, no, you're not by no means you're stepping on 149 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.559 any toes. It's uh, you're you're allowed to write It 150 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:10.519 is pretty funny, isn't it. House You don't have to 151 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:14.159 get any more than I think nine chapters into Genesis 152 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.480 to go like, wait a minute, he's sent to angels 153 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.200 down to a place to go get raped or something 154 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:24.039 like that. Me sorry about YouTube, but you're not like 155 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:25.120 live right now? Are you? 156 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:25.399 Now? 157 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:27.279 You're good? You say whatever. I don't give a shit. 158 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.320 Worst case scenario, I won't put it on YouTube, so 159 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:29.919 I should. 160 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:32.759 I should still church it up a little bit. But 161 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.440 it is, you know. I mean to use the very 162 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:39.600 very realistic term of what exactly was happening, you know, 163 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:44.759 But I think it better to focus on what Marcianism 164 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:50.799 is is. It's it stems from a guy called Marciano Sinape. 165 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:54.559 He went and followed, uh or he didn't follow. He 166 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.759 went to where Paul went and wrote and collected all 167 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:00.840 of his writings. He is very we I have a 168 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:05.519 whole timeline pulled up over here of everything that he did. 169 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:07.279 I'm not going to read everything off to him, but 170 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:12.879 he was born in seventy CE right there. And he 171 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.240 goes off and he follows the path that Paul took 172 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.200 and collects everything. I can get a little bit more 173 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.960 into the timeline later, but he gathers up all the 174 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:29.720 works and makes the first Christian Scripture and then hands 175 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.279 it off to the churches of that time and said, 176 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.440 here you go, I did all this work, and he 177 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:39.240 was thanked by being excommunicated, exiled and all that. But 178 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:43.519 to answer the root of your question, like the difference, 179 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.519 because there are a few, but there are more than 180 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:52.120 one sex of Christianity that kind of point out the 181 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:58.960 hypocrisies in the Old Testament. The difference between Marcianism and 182 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.840 all of those is, well, why are you still reading 183 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:05.480 the Old Testament? Why do you why do you still 184 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.480 give it the why do you still venerate it as 185 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:16.240 holy texture, a texture scripture as holy texts, holy scripture? 186 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.559 Same thing, and why do you still even use it? 187 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:21.679 Why do you why do you even let your kids 188 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:27.240 read this? You know at that point and more or less, uh, 189 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.879 we just kind of simplified. Well, it's not simplified. He 190 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.600 he has had the first right. That's another thing is 191 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:40.279 many the claims that people say, ridiculous thing. Apparently Marcion 192 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:43.279 was a celibate, but he had a sex cult. You know, 193 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.399 there's a Again, I have a whole nother list of 194 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.480 things that just don't make sense. Where they were trying 195 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:52.759 to bash this guy in an extremely unfair way. 196 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:55.679 To be fair, it could be like a semen retention cult. 197 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:58.799 And so there's the there's the there's the you know 198 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.159 what I mean, that's the thing these days. 199 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.759 November ever just no nut ever. 200 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.480 Yeah, like a no nutting cult, which I guess in 201 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:10.519 a certain sense is a sex cult. But it's the 202 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.840 it's the lack thereof really but go on. 203 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:21.120 As ridiculous as that sounds, but no getting getting a 204 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:25.480 little bit back to the less silliness of it. It's 205 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:31.240 just quite simply, it's the most rude removed from Judeo 206 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:37.440 Christianity you could possibly be. You like it has I 207 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.799 mean I have it right here actually at the Marcy 208 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.000 Nite Church of Christ dot org. You can pick yourself 209 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:45.679 up a nice copy of this. They have a hard 210 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.440 copy of a soft soft copy. And it has not 211 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.759 only it has the Evangelicon, which is just kind of 212 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:57.440 Jesus' story in one book, not split into four gospels. 213 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:02.360 And it has all I think all of Paul's works, 214 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:07.039 with some of Paul's works weren't brought into the Holy 215 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:12.000 Bible that is the current canon, as well as we 216 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:14.960 have the first Psalm book that you actually can't find 217 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:19.960 in the current Bible, as well as some of Marcion's 218 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.039 own works. He has some really like like really metal 219 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.799 stuff in here. Like you, I would I would recommend 220 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.440 reading one book from here, and it would actually not 221 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.840 be anything that's in the current Bible. I would read 222 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.639 Marcian's Homily to Romans where he's talking that he's essentially 223 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:40.120 he's in prison. This is when he came back and 224 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.840 they have he's writing while he's bound, and he doesn't 225 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.200 know what they're going to do with them because he's 226 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.799 committed the crime of being a good scholar. And he's 227 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:53.759 talking about how, you know, the beasts they have prepared 228 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:56.360 for me. This guy thinks that he's gonna get eaten alive, 229 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.360 and he's like, you know, don't don't you know feel 230 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.000 bad for me. This is what you should be doing 231 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:05.440 as a Christian. You are going to be, you know, 232 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.320 you're not going to have an easy life. You are 233 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.159 going to be you know, attacked by for what you 234 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.320 believe because of the evil people that are in this world. 235 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.960 And I'm doing exactly what Jesus is asking me to do. 236 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:22.480 Mm hmmm, uh okay. To be clear, I guess I 237 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.240 was kind of driving at So, to be very clear, 238 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.919 the the idea here is, I guess there's the same 239 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:30.159 exact thing with these two with Nacism and Marsianism, is 240 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:33.120 that the the you guys see the the God of 241 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.519 the Old Testament as not the same god as the 242 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.000 New Testament or is there a different way of understanding it? 243 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:42.919 Perhaps correct? Okay, more or less the difference between Marsianism 244 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:50.360 and Gnostics. Gnostics still think that Yahweh and whatever name 245 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:55.159 you use for the Jewish God is a legitimate god 246 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:57.879 or deity or demiurge or whatever word you want to 247 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:01.840 put on it. He is still a god, but he's 248 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.080 a god of wrath. He's a god of war. Whereas 249 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:10.240 Marcianites like you can still technically be a Marcianite and 250 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.559 believe like you could be like a Marciankite pagan. That's 251 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:15.279 not like, we're not going to tell you you can't 252 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:17.919 be in our church and believe those things. But the 253 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:22.720 the core belief of Marsianism is that Yahweh is either 254 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:28.600 likely early man's first interactions with the devil, and if 255 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.120 you were if you were to meet the devil, you 256 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.600 would think that he's a god too, right, I mean, 257 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:38.559 like think about what think about what power the devil has? Yeah, 258 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:42.080 and if you were to meet him, like out of fear, 259 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.480 one could definitely worship a devil, so that the idea 260 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.639 is that he's either like a lesser, certainly not a god, 261 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.519 or probably most likely just made up, you know, like 262 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:56.960 why why did the thunder happen? 263 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:57.360 Oh? 264 00:15:57.559 --> 00:15:59.200 Yahweh? Yeah? 265 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.919 Okay, so kind of a god of the gaps, but 266 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:04.879 perhaps or maybe a little bit of an evil, more 267 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.399 of an aggrigor than an actual entity. Really is a 268 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.679 kind of is kind of what it's driving at, which 269 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.200 I didn't even realize that the Nastics were actually believing 270 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:16.279 that it was a legit god, like I guess, I 271 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:18.519 guess I kind of assumed that they thought that, Like 272 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.080 I guess it really to put too much though onto 273 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.519 if they thought there was a legitimate god or I mean, 274 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:24.960 I guess I would have thought to be a demon. 275 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.840 Although even then, I guess with the Nastics they have 276 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.440 they tend to have some weird I know, it gets 277 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.720 some weird like Adam and then this they have a 278 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:35.279 weird whole weird. I mean, use you guys as not 279 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.039 to get tun into the weeds of the founding story? 280 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:39.799 But is it? Is it very much? 281 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:41.799 You kind of know what I'm driving at with some 282 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.039 of the weird The oddness is a little. I mean, 283 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.840 I say it's convoluted, but then again, so is Genesis 284 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:49.360 or really any any you know creation story if you're 285 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.919 not familiar with it. But I know the Nastics have 286 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.840 kind of a slightly different take. Is Marsianism the same 287 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.320 or is it somehow find a way to stay more 288 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:02.559 in line with a more common on standing with Christianity's Genesis. 289 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.519 You know, I guess to you know, pun intended somewhat. 290 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:10.279 You know, we don't really we don't really abscribe to it. 291 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.319 Like I brought up Genesis, but we don't really we 292 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.319 don't have a creation story. Martianism lets you kind of 293 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.160 like there there isn't a a set in stone like 294 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.200 this is what happened at the beginning beginning of a time, 295 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:28.640 and this is why you know, Adam and Eve were 296 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:32.000 kicked out of heaven, and this is why this our 297 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:36.720 scriptures starts in twenty nine CE, November twenty fourth. We 298 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.160 know it was a Thursday. Jesus descended from heaven. And 299 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.319 that's another distinction there is no virgin birth. Gnostics entertained 300 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.960 the idea. I assume you know, every Gnostic is going 301 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.799 to be different from person to person, but they entertained 302 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.519 the virgin birth idea, and they all these other gnostic texts, 303 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:01.240 and there were gnostics before Christ, and the Gnostics you know, 304 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.839 took the story of Christ. Now I'm not saying they 305 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.720 perverted it. They you know, like confirmation bias. Right if 306 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.400 if you heard about like, oh man, this guy, this 307 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.160 guy Jesus was healing people, and did you hear that 308 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.559 last Friday they crucified him. He came back, you know, 309 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:20.559 in this and that, you'd think, well, wow, you know, 310 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.839 as as a Gnostic, they already I think were polygamous 311 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:27.480 back then, don't quote me, so obviously you would take 312 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:31.599 that as like, obviously this is proof of of divine something, 313 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:34.720 you know, and they would just stick it in with 314 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:39.759 what they already knew, and they would you know, it's 315 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:44.559 it's not a perversion in a more of an adaptation. 316 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.400 Right, Yeah, I guess that makes sense, I think, But 317 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.519 if you do think the Old Testament is is kind 318 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:52.480 of you know, the product of either an imagine God 319 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.640 or a demon or the devil or some sort of 320 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:56.960 it would make sense to'd be like, well this is 321 00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.519 all nonsense, so like obviously I'm not going to miss 322 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:01.599 any So yeah, I guess it would make sense to 323 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:06.960 start from Jesus showed up there there From there we start, Uh, Okay, well, 324 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.440 I guess now I think we've we probably start laying 325 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:13.799 out what exactly Marsianism is. I guess, uh maybe we 326 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:15.880 can maybe one place to good to start off with us? 327 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.240 What do they? 328 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.359 How do they? How does Marsianism typically view uh, Jesus. 329 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.920 It sounds like it sounds like they're you kind of 330 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.920 it almost seems like maybe marciems a semi open, but 331 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.519 it sounds like there's, you know, pretty pretty varying definitions 332 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.799 of what a Martian a Martianist is. It seems like perhaps, 333 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.519 uh so, I guess I'm kind of curious what you 334 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.519 How do you guys typically perceive the person of Christ. 335 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.319 That that is one thing we are certainly more concrete. 336 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:48.559 Is It's like we know what we know, and what 337 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.200 we know is Jesus, fores ure was the son of God. 338 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.240 There's no confusion there. He goes around telling people I 339 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.599 am of my father. This is why I am able 340 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.119 to do these great things is because I have the 341 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:04.359 power of my Father with me. So there's there's no 342 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:05.240 question there. 343 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.160 And that's not like some anime lesson the powers within 344 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.240 all of us and you're all kind of sons of God. 345 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.960 It's not something like I know some people reconceptualize it 346 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:13.200 with that. 347 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.519 So yeah, no, he's not Goku. He doesn't go off 348 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.000 the power of friendship. If anything, he you know, he 349 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:22.759 makes a lot more enemies than he does friends in 350 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.880 his lifetime. He is still alive, but you know what 351 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.119 I mean, his human lifetime. But more or less, he 352 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.920 is the son of the Father. There is still a 353 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:38.279 holy spirit, there is still a trinity. We believe in 354 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:44.640 a traditional trinity. But yeah, we don't think that like 355 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:49.039 he was just some sort of aperation that people were 356 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.960 too confused to think. No, he came down in flesh 357 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.440 because he is the son of God. He can do 358 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.319 such things. He came and performed miracles. We know that 359 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.839 this happened, and we actually have like legal like I 360 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.240 guess documents, he would say, and uh, interesting enough, the 361 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.240 when you look at why Jesus was tried in the 362 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:21.400 Roman documents, he was crucified for blasphemy and the Hebrew 363 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.240 texts he was crucified for sorcery, and both of those 364 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.480 things are punishable by crucifixion. So I think that's kind 365 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:31.440 of it's not like, you know, someone had a camera 366 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.160 phone back then, but it's about as good as evidence 367 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.559 that we have that Jesus did in fact perform miracles 368 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.319 enough to where the Hebrew people were like, no, he's 369 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.559 performed in magic. He's got to go because of it. 370 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.000 Okay, I guess, you know, let's hone in on what 371 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:48.400 this belief system is. What are probably some of the 372 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.559 key the key beliefs belief systems within this because I 373 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.039 kind of was driving out there. I mean, heck, even 374 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:56.720 as we were saying with Jesus is kind of like 375 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.160 you know, I mean a lot of times these different 376 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:01.960 belief systems, it gets a little little airy fairy kind 377 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.359 of oh, you know, we're all gods, you we all 378 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.319 can you know, through the power of friendship or whatever, 379 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.920 YadA YadA, find some way to make this weird universalistic 380 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.200 type concept. Just I guess kind of one of the 381 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.559 main beats what are the important things? I mean, Like, 382 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.799 I know, I grew up Baptists, Like if I was 383 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:20.799 going to give the main beats Jesus came died for 384 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:24.039 our sins, you know, you you say, hey, uh, forgive 385 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:26.240 me for all that stuff, and yuh. You know, there's 386 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.920 also this weird Baptism Baptist thing where you're you're supposed 387 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:30.640 to like regularly check in and be like, yoh it 388 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.279 did some fucked up stuff like could you cover me 389 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.200 for that one? And you're like, okay, cool, and then 390 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.440 like but even with Baptists, you're like always covered theoretically, 391 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.480 like technically, even though you would consider myself an atheist. Now, 392 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.720 from my understanding of BAP Southern Baptists, I think technically, 393 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:46.559 I mean, they'd find a weird way to be like, 394 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:48.680 well you technically that must mean you never actually believed 395 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:51.640 to begin with, you know, but like I can tell 396 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.200 you right now, I did at that time when I 397 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:54.279 used to do. But whatever. 398 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:55.079 Uh. 399 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.319 But point B that's their beliefs, and they believe if 400 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.160 you really believed it, you're covered by the blood of 401 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:03.880