1 00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:19,199 --> 00:00:22,879 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:22,879 --> 00:00:27,760 Federalist and your experience shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,719 Did my voice break there? Just a little bit sounded 5 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,399 like it. Maybe it's an adolescent hitting me once again. 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,119 As always, you can email the show at radio at 7 00:00:37,119 --> 00:00:41,479 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 8 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:45,200 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 9 00:00:45,359 --> 00:00:48,719 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 10 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,840 Our guest today is doctor Kenneth Calvert, professor of history 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,439 and director of the Oxford Program at Hillsdale College. We 12 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,640 discuss the good news of good and just what it 13 00:01:02,799 --> 00:01:06,879 means today to millions and millions of Christians in the 14 00:01:06,879 --> 00:01:09,439 world at large. Good afternoon, sir, Thank you so much 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,680 for joining us in this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 16 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,319 Thank you, Matt, great to be here. Well you heard 17 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,959 my squeaky voice. I'm just telling you how excited I 18 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,359 am to talk about this issue. It's great, this story, 19 00:01:20,439 --> 00:01:24,319 this good news, and of course this is Holy Week, 20 00:01:24,519 --> 00:01:29,519 so we begin Holy Week according to scripture with this 21 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:36,079 great celebration on Palm Sunday, the Son of God on 22 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,760 the back of a donkey that someone has, well one 23 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,879 could say stolen, but but somebody in town, you know, 24 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,879 said yeah, sure ahead, go ahead, take my donkey. The 25 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,519 Lord says that that's a good idea. And and then 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:59,719 you have this triumphant experience Hosanna, Hosanna, and in the 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,439 alms and the people shouting their Messiah is here, it 28 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,199 is now. And by the time you move just a 29 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:14,159 handful of days into Thursday night and into Friday of 30 00:02:14,159 --> 00:02:18,680 that week, you have a total reversal of mood. You 31 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:24,439 have a total reversal of sentiment from the people of 32 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,319 Jerusalem and the surrounding areas at that time. Let us 33 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:35,879 begin there, how do we get from that absolute joy 34 00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:42,039 to that dark despair? And then let us not forget 35 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,159 why we call this the good news, the. 36 00:02:44,199 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: Rolling of that stone, right right? 37 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: So I think we have to go back and look 38 00:02:48,719 --> 00:02:52,520 at Jesus' ministry, and he says over and over again, 39 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,520 you know what must happen. In fact, when he establishes 40 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,800 the church Matthew sixteen upon the rock of the Gospel 41 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,840 and the proclamation that Peter gives you know that the church, 42 00:03:05,319 --> 00:03:09,080 he is the Messiah. He says, just a few verses later, 43 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:10,840 what it is that he's going to have to do? 44 00:03:11,479 --> 00:03:16,159 And Peter, Peter is just shocked, and you know, opposes 45 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,840 Jesus on that, and Jesus says, get behind me, Satan. 46 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,159 And the idea here is that, you know, through this 47 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:27,520 ministry pointing ahead to this week, Jesus knows exactly what he's. 48 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,159 Speaker 2: Going to have to do. 49 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: And you have in the various gospels this notion. You know, 50 00:03:33,439 --> 00:03:37,639 in Mark he focuses the abandonment of Jesus by his 51 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,520 disciples during this week. And you know, not just Judas. 52 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,520 Judas is a traitor and turns on Jesus. Judas has 53 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,080 all kinds of motives for doing this, likely just the 54 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,479 gold and silver that's involved, but his his other disciples 55 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,479 also abandoned him. You know, it's it's it's about suffering. 56 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,479 In the in the Gospel of Mark and in the 57 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,919 Gospel of Matthew, all of the Old Testament points ahead 58 00:04:01,919 --> 00:04:06,039 to this. In the Psalms to the suffering Servant and Isaiah, 59 00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:08,719 you know, the idea that he's going to be the 60 00:04:08,759 --> 00:04:11,560 suffering servant. It points ahead to him there's there's no 61 00:04:12,759 --> 00:04:16,399 disparity between what is said about Jesus and the Old 62 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:19,800 Testament and what is fulfilled in his life, and particularly 63 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,160 in this week in the Gospel of Luke, you know, 64 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,160 there's a there's a focus on his on his innocence, 65 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,040 but there's also this triumphant notion. Even when he's on 66 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:39,079 the cross, the good thief, you know, proclaims faith and 67 00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:41,519 Jesus says to him, today you will be with me 68 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,000 in paradise. Now that doesn't mean the thief gets off miraculously. 69 00:04:46,079 --> 00:04:47,319 Speaker 2: He has to fulfill his. 70 00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:51,399 Speaker 3: Punishment and he dies on that cross. But Jesus has 71 00:04:51,439 --> 00:04:53,439 promised him because. 72 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,079 Speaker 2: Of the faith of that of that of that thief. 73 00:04:57,879 --> 00:05:00,879 Speaker 3: And then of course in John, just the the wonderful 74 00:05:01,399 --> 00:05:05,680 high Christology of John, that this is God, this is 75 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,040 God dying on the cross for us, you know, and 76 00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:10,079 this is this is one thing that we just cannot 77 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,160 ever forget. And all all the gospels proclaim Jesus as God. 78 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,680 He's the evidence is there. But this is God atoning 79 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,120 for the sins of his people. You know, all through 80 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,160 the Old Testament, that salvation history unfolds from the beginning 81 00:05:26,199 --> 00:05:28,839 from Genesis, you know, all the way on through to 82 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,480 the gospels. It's it's a beautiful fulfillment. It's it's awful, 83 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,920 it's horrible within some churches and and their services. You know, 84 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:44,079 the Liturgy of the Catholic Church calls this a happy fault, 85 00:05:44,759 --> 00:05:49,680 that the fall of Man in Adam and Eve that 86 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:52,920 that fall. It's it's not the end, that there's going 87 00:05:53,079 --> 00:05:58,160 to be a sacrifice made by God himself for his people. 88 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,639 And this is what we sell break, this is what 89 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:05,480 all Christians celebrate when we're looking at this week that 90 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:09,639 begins with the entry of Jesus into Jerusalem. If I 91 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,040 can talk for a moment about Palm Sunday, I think 92 00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:17,160 this is really important, you know, and Zechariah tells us 93 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,920 that he's going to come into the Messiah will enter 94 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,600 into Jerusalem on the cult of a donkey. And so 95 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,600 what happens there when he sends his disciples to go 96 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,839 and and to borrow this donkey is you know, he's 97 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,360 fulfilling scripture. And there again, all the Old Testament is 98 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,759 fulfilled in Jesus, and particularly in this week. And if 99 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,240 there's sometimes you hear scholars and people talk about, well, 100 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,240 did Jesus really know who he was, and I would say, 101 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,720 of course he does. All through the gospels, you can 102 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,720 see that. But if you have any question about who 103 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:55,800 he knows himself to be, it's in that entrance into 104 00:06:55,879 --> 00:06:59,279 Jerusalem on the cult of a Donkey. You know he is. 105 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,040 He's showing himself that, you know, the world, to his people, 106 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:07,040 to Jerusalem, that he is the Messiah, and he's come 107 00:07:07,439 --> 00:07:11,680 into his capital as the Messiah, just as Zechariah had 108 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,800 had prophesied. And of course we see in the Gospels 109 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,800 that that's the moment in which the leadership of both 110 00:07:21,839 --> 00:07:25,560 the Jews and then also with poncherous pilot, they begin 111 00:07:25,639 --> 00:07:29,319 to conspire against him. And I think too, it's important 112 00:07:29,319 --> 00:07:32,800 for us to remember that Jesus is not crucified because 113 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,279 he's a good guy, because he teaches people to love 114 00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:38,759 is their neighbor, because you know, he tells us to 115 00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:43,439 you know, to to to pray for one another. He's 116 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,480 killed because he says, I am I am who I am, 117 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,600 you know, I am God, I am one with God, 118 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,800 if the Father and I are one. He uses this 119 00:07:54,959 --> 00:07:58,399 kind of language, which in their their minds is blasphemous. 120 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,720 They also know that there have been other quote unquote 121 00:08:02,759 --> 00:08:06,199 Messiah's out there, and every time one of these guys 122 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,879 shows up, there's bloodshed and there's just absolute mayhem. And 123 00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:16,319 they're afraid because Jesus is so popular. Thousands upon thousands 124 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:22,439 are are following him. He's got a tight group around him. 125 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,519 He's a threat. He is a threat, and they believe 126 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,360 that if they don't do something about him, there'll be 127 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:31,439 another some sort of revolution or civil war. Of course, 128 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,679 they don't understand, and even even the disciples are confused 129 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:38,159 as to what you know, he's really about. He's not 130 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,559 here to overthrow the Romans. This is a much bigger, 131 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,879 much more important, much more eternal message. And so what's 132 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:48,840 going on in this week? You know, he's in the 133 00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:54,600 he's in the temple preaching, and they're they're very unhappy, 134 00:08:54,639 --> 00:08:56,919 and they're afraid to touch him because of how many 135 00:08:56,919 --> 00:09:02,320 people are are following him. But they know that they 136 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,240 want to get rid of him. And today, on Wednesday 137 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,320 of Holy Week, we remember the moment in which Judas 138 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:16,759 goes and collects his thirty thirty silver pieces to be 139 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:18,080 a traitor to Jesus. 140 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,799 Speaker 1: Yes, you know so much to look at an examine 141 00:09:23,919 --> 00:09:27,000 in all of these different days, but all of these 142 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,039 days tied together by the ultimate covenant, isn't It's the 143 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,799 ultimate covenant with God and his people and the people 144 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:41,120 of the world. Because, as you know, so many times 145 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:44,120 I've thought about just what you mentioned before, that thief 146 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,120 on the cross. Jesus, remember me when you come into 147 00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:52,799 your kingdom and scolding the you know, the atheist if 148 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,240 you will, or dying on the other side, you know, 149 00:09:57,279 --> 00:10:00,759 all of the doubt, more doubt maybe than the voting Thomas. 150 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:06,440 But thinking you know, that is the ultimate symbol of 151 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,399 all of us, no matter how good we think we 152 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,200 are at times. You know, It's what Paul would write 153 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,600 about later in Romans and talking about you're not going 154 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,240 to get this by the things you do in your life. 155 00:10:19,279 --> 00:10:23,279 You're going to get this promise, the fulfillment of this 156 00:10:23,399 --> 00:10:29,759 covenant by giving your life to Christ, who is the 157 00:10:29,799 --> 00:10:33,879 Son of God, who was, is and will ever be. 158 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,240 But you mentioned the disciples, and there are all of 159 00:10:38,279 --> 00:10:41,679 these signs that these guys have read over the years 160 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,679 from what is the Old Testament. Of course, all of 161 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,720 these prophets who have told them, Jesus himself tells them repeatedly, 162 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,759 I am not here for long. 163 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:54,799 Speaker 2: There are so. 164 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:58,279 Speaker 1: Many different examples. Why don't they ever fully understand that? 165 00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: Because well, I often call the disciples a bunch of underheads, 166 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,960 and I think that there's something to that. You know, 167 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:08,879 what is truly miraculous? 168 00:11:08,919 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: I love that term. By the way, is it a 169 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,200 theological term? It is thunderheads. 170 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very. 171 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: High level theological term. Sure, that's right. 172 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:19,639 Speaker 3: But you know, Matthew twenty eight. At the end of 173 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:25,159 that gospel, we're told that he calls the disciples together, 174 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,480 and they gather together, and it says there are eleven, 175 00:11:30,519 --> 00:11:33,320 which means Judas is gone by then, and this is 176 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,399 after the death, this is after the resurrection of Jesus. 177 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,840 And then it says in Matthew twenty eight seventeen they 178 00:11:40,879 --> 00:11:45,000 worshiped him, but some doubted. And you know, frankly, that's 179 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,360 the whole history of the church right there, among those disciples. 180 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,320 What is truly beautiful, what is a great blessing, is 181 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,080 that in spite of every effort on the part of 182 00:11:58,159 --> 00:12:01,960 Christians to put an end to the Gospel, its message 183 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,440 and it's spread, it's still there, and the Lord is 184 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,600 going to make sure. And then it says in Matthew 185 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:12,039 twenty eight and he said, go into all the world 186 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,240 and preach the gospel. Just preach the Gospel. And then 187 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,120 he says, do everything that I've told you to do. 188 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,080 Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 189 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:27,639 You know, he puts into the hands of these apostles 190 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,679 his work, and then he of course works through them. 191 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,320 But they are called to do the work, the apostolic work, 192 00:12:34,799 --> 00:12:37,840 and He works through them. And I often remind my 193 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,240 students that each of the books of the Bible, each 194 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,399 of the books of the New Testament, are not written 195 00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:50,080 by perfect individuals. They're written by fallen individuals. I mean, 196 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,879 Saint Paul is so clear about this. But it's what 197 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:56,759 the Holy Spirit is doing through them, that is and 198 00:12:56,919 --> 00:13:00,879 in them that is really the miraculous part. And that's 199 00:13:00,919 --> 00:13:04,080 the way it is with the Church too. And here 200 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,440 at the atonement of you done for our sins by 201 00:13:08,519 --> 00:13:13,960 God himself, by the God of the universe himself. What 202 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,159 we have here is this is truly powerful, miraculous event. 203 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:22,720 And then working through his church of proclaiming that atonement, 204 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:28,320 and then of course the wonderful resurrection from the dead 205 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,960 of Saint Paul, you know, talks about the resurrection if 206 00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:36,360 if if it didn't happen, we're fools. Right, But he 207 00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:40,919 also says, I boast in nothing but Christ and him crucified. 208 00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:47,120 That's one of the wonderful just ideas that we constantly 209 00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:50,200 have to remind ourselves of that there's nothing we can 210 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,720 boast in but his crucifixion, his atonement. And then if 211 00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:56,440 he doesn't rise from the dead, you know we're still dead. 212 00:13:57,639 --> 00:14:01,480 That's right. He has congered death. And so this week 213 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:04,720 it's a difficult thing. I mean, we call it Holy week, 214 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,080 or we call it Easter week. Actually Easter if you 215 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,120 want to talk about that word, I'd love to. It's 216 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,879 not a particularly good word in my mind. But anyway, 217 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,759 we talk about the Passover in the passical feast is 218 00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:21,639 really what we should call it. It's you know, this 219 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,399 is what happens. This is week, this week, this is 220 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,559 always celebrate and all of time, all of salvation history 221 00:14:27,639 --> 00:14:29,360 points ahead to this week. 222 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, and you're right, I mean, this is 223 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:39,720 the Passover week. That's what Jesus and his followers were celebrating. 224 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:43,679 And they were celebrating. Now think about that, Matthew, Matthew 225 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,240 twenty six. Now, as they were eating Jesus took bread, 226 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,480 and after blessing it, broke it and gave it to 227 00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:54,039 the disciples and said, take eat. 228 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: This is my body. 229 00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, 230 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,159 he gave it to them, saying, drink of it, all 231 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,240 of you, for this is my blood of the Covenant, 232 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:09,960 which is of the New Covenant, which is poured out 233 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,840 for many, for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, 234 00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:18,919 I think I will not drink again of this fruit 235 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,679 of the vine until that day when I drink it 236 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:27,080 new with you in my father's kingdom. Those words, of course, 237 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:32,720 have resonated through times since that very moment. What is 238 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,720 what does all of that mean? Because you know, for 239 00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:39,720 those of us in the you know, the secular world, 240 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:41,960 we think of that and we go, what is what 241 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,960 is Jesus saying? What is he talking about? This is 242 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440 my blood. Drink my blood, you know, take that this 243 00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:51,960 is my body. But this is as as we talked about, 244 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,279 This is the Covenant. This is exactly what he is 245 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,639 about to do for mankind. 246 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:58,519 Speaker 2: That's right. 247 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: And John the Baptist proclaims him before he baptizes Jesus 248 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,960 as the Lamb of God. This is the Lamb of 249 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,559 God who takes away the sins of the world. What 250 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:14,639 an amazing and remarkable message. And then on the other end, 251 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,080 during you know, Paul's work with the Corinthians, he says 252 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,559 in First Corinthians eleven, you know, if they don't know 253 00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:24,559 the meaning of this meal and they don't give it 254 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,960 the highest of regard, their souls are in danger. So 255 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,320 it is it is at the center of this is 256 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:34,960 this meal that had been prophesied from the time of 257 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,080 the exile or the exodus excuse me, from Egypt and 258 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,559 then up to the time of Jesus and beyond. And 259 00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:45,840 we are told do this every time you meet, to remember, 260 00:16:46,879 --> 00:16:51,240 you know what Jesus's message, what this meal, what this 261 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,320 New Covenant is all about. 262 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very powerful. 263 00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: So you mentioned before the term Easter, right, same, there 264 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:04,559 are these terms, and I'd like you to go into Easter, 265 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,519 this term coming up for the day of Passover, which 266 00:17:09,559 --> 00:17:11,920 we in the in the Christian faith referred to as 267 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,039 mandi Uh Thursday. And then there, of course is the 268 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:24,480 day of the Crucifixion is Good Friday. And again it 269 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,960 sounds you know, it's such a violent moment in time. 270 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,720 How can that be good. It's why this is being done, 271 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:35,720 and what happens next is why it's. 272 00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: So good, right, right? 273 00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:41,599 Speaker 3: And so you know, we live very much in a 274 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:45,960 time in which, you know, we want everything to be 275 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,279 happy and wonderful and easy. Right, what is what is 276 00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:52,960 really interesting? And you see this in literature, you see 277 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,640 this in the movies, that the the idea of something 278 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,920 being being easy is really not part of the heroic 279 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,119 And I'm not trying to put Jesus as just simply 280 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,240 a human heroic. 281 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:13,799 Speaker 2: Level, but that. 282 00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:20,519 Speaker 3: Suffering and struggle on behalf of something, on behalf of someone, 283 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:24,559 say a soldier on behalf of the United States, who 284 00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:28,599 suffers and struggles and dies for the United States. You know, 285 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,359 you have this in scripture. There may be someone who 286 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,920 would die for a good man. There might be someone 287 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,359 who would die for someone who is noble, But who's 288 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,640 going to die for a bunch of evil people? 289 00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: Right? 290 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,559 Speaker 3: Who's going to die for a bunch of sinners? And 291 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,319 this is the idea in scripture that while we were 292 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,799 yet sinners, while we were really without knowledge, God does 293 00:18:50,839 --> 00:18:55,279 this on our behalf. And so this is where many 294 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:02,680 call it this week, Holy week, all it good, Friday, 295 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,799 good Friday. Why good Friday, because there was you know, 296 00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:12,079 God suffered and bled and died on our behalf. He 297 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,400 made that good right in his suffering, in his struggle. 298 00:19:16,519 --> 00:19:20,880 He made that a good day for us. Mandy Thursday 299 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:26,440 the idea in which really Mandy comes from the word 300 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,319 mandatum or mandate or command. And he gives this command 301 00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:37,200 a new commandment. I give you that you love one another. 302 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,920 And this, you know, really being fulfilled in the work 303 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:46,440 of Jesus. That Mandy Thursday is in the in the 304 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,559 minds and in the practices of many Christians, Anglican or 305 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,400 Orthodox or Catholic. It's the first of three days Thursday, 306 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,279 in which that new commandment is given and Jesus goes 307 00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:04,519 to suffer. Is is uh tortured, put on trial by 308 00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:13,680 these earthly powers, you know, the Sanhedrin or herod Antipas, 309 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,480 who's kind of a knucklehead, and say there's that, you know, 310 00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:22,759 another theological term, and uh and and and ponscious Pilot 311 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:27,279 who really he's an interesting story too, as a Roman governor, 312 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,359 just kind of an interesting life. He's already in trouble 313 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,920 with the imperial powers, but you know, he's not really sure. 314 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: What to do. 315 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,799 Speaker 3: With this guy, right, and so he bows to the 316 00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:41,799 the proclamation of the local rulers who want this man dead. 317 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,400 And let me throw in one other little part here 318 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,119 that people sometimes overlook. There was another guy on trial 319 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,440 who was in prison named bar Abbas, right, who was well, 320 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,119 so that's the thing. Who is that third cross for 321 00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:02,519 before gees As comes along? Before they put him on trial? 322 00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:06,200 And many theologians believe that that third cross was actually 323 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,279 for bar Abbas. Now bar Abbas the name means son 324 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,079 of the Father. Is this a guy who was one 325 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:20,839 of these pretend messiahs? And likely he was, and they 326 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:24,039 were going to kill him. And you know, the irony 327 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,279 of this account in the Gospels is that the false messiah, 328 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,799 bar Abbas, gets off. The true king of the universe, 329 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:39,519 the true King of the Jews, is sacrificed, is crucified. 330 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,319 And so that's another part of this whole kind of 331 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:50,960 very beautiful but complex set of accounts that brings all 332 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,960 of this together, the rejection of God, the rejection of 333 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:03,319 the true Messiah, and in favor of a false Messiah. 334 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 4: Why is Home sales at the slowest pace in four years? 335 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,000 The Watched Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. 336 00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:11,880 Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 337 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,319 the economy and how it affects your wallet. Sales have 338 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,880 newly built homes dropped seventeen point six percent, even with 339 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,839 building prices coming down. Why are young home buyers so anxious? 340 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,160 Is this another housing market warning sign? Whether it's happening 341 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,720 in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 342 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:28,319 Speaker 1: Be informed. 343 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 4: Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 344 00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:33,480 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 345 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,839 Speaker 1: Our guest today is doctor Kenneth Calvert, Professor of history 346 00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:48,920 and director of the Oxford Program at Hillsdale College. We're 347 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:55,720 discussing the good News of Good Friday. You had, you know, 348 00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:58,799 these disciples, and I think about so many interesting lives. 349 00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:02,480 I only wish the Gospels would give us more light 350 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,599 into these people, because they're so fascinating to me reading, 351 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,960 you know, reading the New Testament. And then you know, 352 00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,799 we've seen the movies and the shows over the years, 353 00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:15,759 and of course they try to fill in the details 354 00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:18,960 that we don't necessarily have. But I think about the 355 00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:25,279 disciple who is best known, arguably best known, and that's Peter. 356 00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:31,039 Just what a complex guy he was to build a 357 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,680 church upon, right, I mean, this is the guy who 358 00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:42,880 loved Jesus. He was so special to Jesus. Yet by 359 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,920 the time the crow or the cock crowed three times, 360 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,759 he denied him. Right, I mean this, this guy is 361 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,400 all of these these people are illustrative of our own 362 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,720 faults and failures. And I think that's one of the 363 00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:02,400 really compelling and beautiful arts of the greatest story ever told. 364 00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 3: Right, So, you know, you begin with Eliakim in Isaiah, 365 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,440 who is given the keys of the kingdom by Hezekiah. 366 00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:15,319 Eliakim has chosen as the prime minister of Hezekiah, and 367 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,519 anyone hearing Jesus say to Peter, you know I give 368 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:22,000 you the keys. That what he's doing here is making 369 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:27,200 Peter his his his prime minister. And in every list 370 00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:32,359 of the disciples, Peter is always first. But what's very 371 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,640 clear is that it's that doesn't mean that Peter is 372 00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:40,839 perfect in everything he says, right, Jesus says, get behind me, Satan. 373 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,640 Peter gets himself, he's impetuous, gets him self in trouble 374 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,440 all the time. And at Jesus' crucifixion, it's not it's 375 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,559 not Peter at the cross. Peter has abandoned him. It's 376 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,880 John who follows Jesus to the cross. John and Mary 377 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,160 and Mary's sister also named Mary. There are a lot 378 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,759 of Mary's flying around in that whole whole family. 379 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,839 Speaker 1: It's like the Bob Newhart show, you know, And we 380 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,160 got my I'm Larry and Larry. 381 00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 2: This is my brother. I'm Daryl. 382 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: This is my brother Larry and Larry. Yeah, because it's 383 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,799 Mary and Mary. That's exactly right, that kind of thing. 384 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,279 Speaker 3: But and then you know, at the end of the 385 00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:25,279 Gospel of John John twenty one, Jesus sits down with 386 00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:28,279 Peter and this is he's the only one that Jesus 387 00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:31,359 talks to like this. He says, Peter, do you love me? 388 00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:35,200 You know, feed my sheep? Do you love me? Feed 389 00:25:35,279 --> 00:25:37,519 my sheep? Do you love me? Feed my sheep? And so, 390 00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:41,880 you know, there is a reconciliation that takes place after 391 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,240 Peter's fall away and rejection of Jesus and his abandonment. 392 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:49,920 I don't know if it was a rejection, but it 393 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,640 was an abandonment of Jesus. And then in the Gospel 394 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,359 of Excuse Me, in the Book of Acts, I believe 395 00:25:54,359 --> 00:26:00,000 it's in chapter five we find Peter, you know, passing 396 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,960 judgment on two people who Anonias and Saphira, who lied 397 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:07,880 to them about, you know, giving things to the church. 398 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,599 And in the Book of Acts you see the beginnings 399 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,839 of the leadership of the church and the the laying 400 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,839 on of hands to establish new leadership. But you don't 401 00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:23,400 you're right, you don't have the story of these disciples. 402 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,240 We know about Peter, we know about Paul. Both die 403 00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:30,359 at at at Rome during the time of Nero, and 404 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,039 that's that's a you know, some very strong evidence there, 405 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:38,079 including the bones of Peter and Paul. And then we have, 406 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,799 you know, some evidence of Thomas going as far east 407 00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:47,640 as India, Mark at Alexandria, Andrew in the east in Turkey. 408 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,440 So there's there are some stories that have some good 409 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:57,839 evidence in them. And then finally John the gospel writer 410 00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:04,319 who ends up near Ephesus and down at Patmos. I 411 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,960 think I would argue it's the same John as the 412 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,680 John of the Apocalypse. But whatever the case, he goes 413 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,839 on to teach a number of people. A man named 414 00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:17,880 Polycarp of Smyrna, ignacious of Antioch. A number of early 415 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,200 leaders are taught by John, and we have their writings, 416 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,319 and so we have some understanding of who they are. Well, 417 00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:29,400 getting back to Easter, all of them and all of 418 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,799 the writings of these early Christians that we have, whether 419 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:36,680 it be Clement of Rome or Polycarp of Smyrna, Ignacious 420 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,720 of Antiochy, guy named Irenaeus of Leon and France or 421 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:47,400 Gaul in those days, another guy Justin of Neneapolis, often 422 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,799 called Justin the Martyr, all of them point back to 423 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,720 the centrality of that Pascal week, of that week in 424 00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:01,720 which Jesus dies and rises from the dead, and the 425 00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:06,839 central meaning of that for the Christian message, that is 426 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,960 the proclamation that he died and he rose from the 427 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,240 dead for us, just just and and you know, these guys, 428 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:17,359 if they're making this up, Matt, if this is just 429 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,400 a story that they're making up, how is it that 430 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,319 they would go to this the ends of the earth. 431 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,799 And oh, my goodness, yes, you know, they they believed 432 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,440 that what they saw was true. And because they do, 433 00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:34,160 I do too. I also believe because I know Jesus. 434 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,559 But uh, you know, there's just so much good evidence 435 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:38,559 there for it. 436 00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you what if if if they didn't 437 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:47,680 believe this, you know, And again they tell the story. 438 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:51,880 They are witnesses, and so they are witnesses to us 439 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,400 for you know, for forever. But these these guys died 440 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,279 some horrible deaths. If I'm not mistaken, and please correct 441 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:05,799 me if I'm wrong. Wasn't it just John was the 442 00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,200 only one who died of natural causes? 443 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:08,759 Speaker 2: Right? 444 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: All of these, all of these disciples were martyred in 445 00:29:13,319 --> 00:29:18,519 the most horrific ways you can possibly imagine. And and 446 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,519 that was their full understanding. Is they wandered, you know, 447 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,480 around the world to bring this good news to the people. 448 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,400 That was their full recognition, their full experience of what 449 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,839 it means to live the life of Christ. And then 450 00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:38,640 to do this, And this is what I wanted to 451 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:44,279 ask you. This is that that Monday Thursday commandment that 452 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:50,119 mandate love one another as I have loved you. Right, 453 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,640 we always fall? How how do you do that? How 454 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,039 do we even get close to that? 455 00:29:58,119 --> 00:29:58,319 Speaker 2: Right? 456 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:04,279 Speaker 3: It means an abandoned band of our pride and abandonment 457 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,599 of our narcissism or of our self serving narcissism. It 458 00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:12,319 means loving others in the way that Christ loved us. 459 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:15,119 And how did he love us, he served us, he 460 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,799 died for us. You know, this is true in Ephesians five. 461 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,599 With a husband and wife. You know, how is a 462 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,920 husband to treat his wife as ch he's to love 463 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,240 her as Christ loved the church? And what does that 464 00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:30,480 mean that a husband dies for his wife? 465 00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:30,839 Speaker 2: Right? 466 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,559 Speaker 3: And it is It is a self giving I think 467 00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:39,079 we often forget that. Again, this is the God of 468 00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:43,039 the universe, not just some local Jupiter or Zeus. We're 469 00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:46,720 talking about the God of the universe, across the span 470 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,319 of timelessness and eternity that we are just beginning to 471 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:56,680 touch on in our in our sciences. Right, this is 472 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,359 the God of the universe who has done this, who 473 00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:04,440 has died for us. In my in my Christmas lectures, 474 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,839 I often talk about that baby in the manger was 475 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,079 also still a member of the Trinity, you know, which 476 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,480 which was not only continually creating but also keeping in 477 00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:19,680 good order all of the universe. What a what a 478 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,480 wonderful idea, what a wonderful truth. And that's true for 479 00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:27,279 the Atonement. And so what are these men dying for? 480 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,680 You know, they're dying for that. And I don't think 481 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,720 there's anything better that you can actually die for. And 482 00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:37,039 so many of the Christian martyrs down through the ages, 483 00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:39,880 and even in the modern day. We've had huge, huge 484 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,039 numbers of martyrs in the modern day, all of them 485 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,200 dying for the truth of who Christ is and what 486 00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:50,319 He's done for us. And this Tweek is all about that. 487 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,400 And again it's it's not a it's not a tragedy. 488 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,880 It's not a tragedy. It's a comedy. And what I 489 00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,440 mean by that not haha comedy, but in the trial 490 00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:04,039 term of comedy, that it has a good ending, a 491 00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:09,319 good and glorious, heavenly happy ending, and it can only 492 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,119 have that because of the work of Christ, the work of. 493 00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: God, the happiest of all endings, no doubt about it. 494 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,240 So I want to talk about that in relation. Today 495 00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:22,400 we've gotten a survey, a sense of this Holy Week, 496 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,480 and obviously through that the mission of Christ on earth 497 00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:30,039 in the what short three span of three years in 498 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:35,440 which he took his ministry. Obviously we don't know much much, 499 00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:40,119 not much is written about, you know, his early life 500 00:32:41,079 --> 00:32:44,359 in the intervening time period. But what does what does 501 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,400 Good Friday? What does Holy Week mean to us today? 502 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,799 And I say that in context, we're losing so much 503 00:32:54,119 --> 00:33:00,000 of the reason this great Republic and it's two hundreds 504 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,039 the years was created and how it was created, it 505 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,599 was the life and times of people for the last 506 00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:15,119 two thousand plus years have been made immeasurably better because 507 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:22,839 Christ walked the earth, he fulfilled the prophecies, he fulfilled 508 00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:28,359 the Covenant, and he lives and reigns now and forever. 509 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,160 But it's such a secular world. Does how does that 510 00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:35,599 story still communicate to such a secular world? 511 00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, we talk about this. I have 512 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,000 a very strong feeling that we don't know even a 513 00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:48,359 tenth of what the Lord is doing right now. You know, 514 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,960 our press, with present company excluded, of course, our press, 515 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:59,400 our media, they don't like this story. They don't like 516 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,599 to pay attention to it. 517 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: You know. 518 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,359 Speaker 3: You see sometimes these these athletes who praise Jesus for 519 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,960 what they do and they get they get you know, 520 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,440 they get punished for that. Yes, you can say anything else, 521 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,719 but you can't say that, right. And so I think 522 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,400 that there is a a kind of radio silence of 523 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,639 sorts out there, of people trying to inhibit the message. 524 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,440 But Jesus can't be stopped, right, God can't be stopped 525 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:33,440 I'm at a college where I see just hundreds of 526 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:39,119 great Christian kids who are motivated, are intelligent, and are 527 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,199 ready to get out there and do the good work. 528 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,719 I support a number of organizations across the country who 529 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,159 at colleges and universities across the country are just just 530 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,840 going gangbusters. I think that, you know, Charlie Kirk with 531 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,159 someone who really hit a nerve, you know, he really, 532 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,000 he really druck a chord, and young people were ready 533 00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:07,039 to listen to that. There's all kinds of numbers of 534 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,800 young people coming into the church, whether it be Protestant 535 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,679 or Catholic or Anglican. There's kind of a renewal all 536 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,679 over the place. I just came back from Europe and 537 00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:22,480 I could see it there. The church I was at, well, 538 00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:26,519 the two churches I attended were packed front to back, 539 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,519 and they were packed front to back not just with 540 00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:35,480 old gray heads like mine, but with young families and 541 00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:43,000 young people, and they're enthusiastically worshiping Christ. So you know, 542 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,239 it's not over, and there's a lot more that's going 543 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,000 on and going to happen. And you know, again the 544 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,000 Lord is just not going to let his church go 545 00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:56,360 away and die, and his message, go away and die. 546 00:35:56,679 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 2: But do you think we're in the middle of a reawakening? 547 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,199 Speaker 1: I asked that as I was in Phoenix recently, surrounded 548 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,760 by some very faithful people, and one of the questions 549 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,639 that came up in our conversation was, there is a 550 00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:13,760 belief that we are in yet another We haven't had 551 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,199 too many of them. Then, you know, we can define, 552 00:36:16,639 --> 00:36:21,639 but we're in a modern day reawakening of the importance 553 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:22,239 of all of that. 554 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 2: Do you believe that to be the case? It could 555 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,440 very well be the case. 556 00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:27,679 Speaker 3: You know, again, I'm not even going to pretend to 557 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,599 know what the Lord is doing. Only I can only 558 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,599 judge on my on my perceptions and what I see 559 00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:35,880 and hear and read. And I have to say, I 560 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,679 think I agree with that. I think there's something going 561 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,960 on here. And you know, for for young people, there's 562 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,239 so much confusion, you know about you know, are you 563 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,519 a man or a woman? What is marriage about? What 564 00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:54,280 are children about? I mean children are our future, and 565 00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,480 everybody kind of loves and desires to have children, but 566 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:03,119 we're told that, you know, they are a hindrance to 567 00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:06,280 our happiness or something. When you know I have I 568 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,360 have three children and now three granddaughters, and that's not 569 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,559 a hindrance to my happiness at all, you know, just 570 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,880 love them to death. And I just, I just I 571 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,000 have to tell you, I think that there's a natural 572 00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:26,400 as well as just a god given response to all 573 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,519 the negativity that's out there, particularly regarding family. You know, 574 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:35,280 people desire to have family, and so I think that's 575 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,199 part of it as well. 576 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. 577 00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:42,039 Speaker 1: I never did understand I still can't understand people that 578 00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:45,039 don't want to have children and dogs around. 579 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 2: Both. Just it's hard for me to imagine. 580 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: I have three children myself, and you know I have 581 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:56,320 made I think I can count six good decisions in 582 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:02,719 my life, and they know four of them involved my family. 583 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 2: That's right. 584 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: So let me let's let's go to that dark hour 585 00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:12,800 as we close, Okay, As Mark tells us, and when 586 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,679 the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the 587 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,000 whole land until the ninth hour. 588 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:21,079 Speaker 2: And at the ninth. 589 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:26,679 Speaker 1: Hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, My God, my God, 590 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,239 why have you forsaken me? 591 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 2: Right? 592 00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: What do you take that to mean? Because there's been 593 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,840 a lot made of that is this is this the Christ, 594 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,800 the son of God, the son of man, doubting. 595 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,119 Speaker 2: God, his father in heaven. 596 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: And I know the answer to that is is no. 597 00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:52,000 But you can understand where the question comes up. 598 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And you know, there's so much in the 599 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,559 Gospels that point to perhaps a moment or statement that's made, 600 00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,119 or question that's given where Jesus does not give an answer, 601 00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:07,159 you know, when when will all things come to an end? 602 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,679 He says, only the Father knows that. And so the 603 00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:16,039 idea here is that this is God in human form, 604 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:23,639 and so you see both his divinity and his profound humanity. Yes, 605 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:24,559 you know, he was. 606 00:39:24,639 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 2: He was. 607 00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:28,679 Speaker 3: He was given flesh by his mother, the same way 608 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,199 that all of us are given flesh by our mothers. 609 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,639 And what is really important in that is that he 610 00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:40,800 also has all of the same emotions, the feelings that 611 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,280 the hurts, you know, that come with being a human being. 612 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,360 We are told that he was tested and he didn't 613 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,519 fail in any of that. And I think even on 614 00:39:50,559 --> 00:39:53,760 the cross, you know, why have you abandoned me? I 615 00:39:53,800 --> 00:40:00,000 think that in that moment he experiences as the human Messiah, 616 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:04,159 a human Christ. What he is experiencing is the full 617 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,119 weight of all of the sins of the world that 618 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,400 are coming down upon him and for which he is paying. 619 00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:14,280 In that moment, you know, you think about all of 620 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,480 those sins, just and just even my sins. You know, 621 00:40:18,519 --> 00:40:20,280 I'm thinking, wow, that would be a lot of pain. 622 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:24,920 But in all of that, in that moment, he cries out. 623 00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:30,320 You know, it's interesting that one of the Roman skeptics 624 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:37,199 of Christianity, guy named Kelsus of Alexandria, he says, because 625 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,639 he believes that the God, you know, the high God 626 00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:43,599 of the universe, has no feelings, has no emotion, has 627 00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:49,440 no jealousy or hatred or love, that this God is 628 00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:53,400 beyond all of those things because he can't feel those things. 629 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,760 You know, he has to be perfect and unfeeling. And 630 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,239 what we see here on the cross is God incarnate 631 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:07,039 actually showing his pain, his suffering, his love for humanity, 632 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,000 and you know, his sense of abandonment that only he, 633 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,320 only he could pay the price that he's paying at 634 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,719 that moment, it could only be Christ, right, and so yeah, 635 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,239 he's all alone up there and he's paying the price 636 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,079 that only he can pay. And so it's a it's 637 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:30,639 a remarkable moment that the Romans and this guy Kelsus, 638 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,960 saw this as showing that he was weak that he 639 00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:39,119 was somehow weak, that he cried out, because Kelsu's has 640 00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:42,239 a stoic believed that God would never cry out like that. 641 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,119 But Jesus is crying out because he does indeed have 642 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,480 the weight of all human sin upon him, and he 643 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,960 is suffering for them for us. Kelsius just doesn't understand 644 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,440 what this moment means. And you know, quite often we 645 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,559 don't understand it. And you know, I think that if 646 00:41:59,639 --> 00:42:02,079 we look at that and say, you know, maybe he 647 00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:05,239 wasn't God after all, I think we have to understand 648 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,360 that as God incarnate, as God, as a human being, yeah, 649 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,920 he's going to feel all of that, and it makes 650 00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:14,000 it makes him. 651 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: More God to me. I can't begin to, you know, 652 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,079 explain how others feel about it. They tell me, but 653 00:42:24,159 --> 00:42:28,480 that's a very personal thing to me. That moment makes 654 00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:33,239 him more holy to me. And in fact, if you 655 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,199 think about that moment, and we should reflect upon that 656 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,039 moment during this Holy week, it breaks my heart to 657 00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:44,679 think about how much he endured for the sake of 658 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:53,400 the sinner, all of us, and that is the good news. 659 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 2: Of Good Friday. 660 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 1: Yes, sir, well, another extraordinary conversation. I very much appreciate 661 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,119 your time, and I always enjoy our conversation. 662 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 2: Happy to do it, I enjoy it too. 663 00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:08,079 Speaker 1: Thanks thanks to my guest today, doctor Kenneth Calvert, Professor 664 00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:11,840 of history and director of the Oxford Program at Hillsdale College. 665 00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:15,239 You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 666 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,480 I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll 667 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,760 be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of 668 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,039 freedom and anxious for the frame